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Cutting Off an Over-Demanding End-User?
SpaceNeeded asks: "Numbers of you will probably recognize the start of the situation. Because I work with systems, I perform occasional builds. This occasionally crosses over to support (especially where it's my kit I'm asked to support). This isn't a problem, nor is it a problem when I get the occasional support query from someone I haven't supplied a system to, but who needs assistance. This is all well and good, but I've had pretty poor year personally. I've lost two relatives and a third is in a pretty bad way in hospital. An eleven year relationship ended a couple of months back, and I'm now having to perform _all_ the domestic tasks that used to be shared. Between these few things and my regular job I'm finding I have a whole lot less time to allow to support calls. What methods do you know of for gently cutting off someone, support-wise?"
"I have a regular end-user who is the one that we all dread. They have little interest in PC systems for itself, and regularly call up with problems, usually related to Windows spy-ware/Trojans/Viruses. I haven't supplied the systems, which comprises of two Dells and a Tosh laptop. Although I quite like them personally, I really don't need the hassle of their regular calls at the moment.
Before the regular cries of 'Supply Ubuntu' get too loud - that will _not_ work. They aren't up to Windows after a couple of years, and will expect interoperability with Windows systems (through college/employer) and don't have the technical skills to manage a *nix system."
Before the regular cries of 'Supply Ubuntu' get too loud - that will _not_ work. They aren't up to Windows after a couple of years, and will expect interoperability with Windows systems (through college/employer) and don't have the technical skills to manage a *nix system."
give 'em some reasonable number of requests, and after that charge them $55-65 per incident (which should nicely cover the cost of having cleaners deal with at least some of the domestic stuff for you).
I'm sorry -- I think I probably misunderstood something. Are you saying that you are providing support to someone even though the product in question was not sold by the company? Are you doing this during company time?
If this is the case, this is unacceptable. It just makes no sense.
I know its too late, but the simple solution to the problem is to not provide support in the first place, unless you're being paid specifically for that support. Either way, refer them to someone who is willing to make a job out of support.
This is a really simple business decision - these are the customers you don't want, you need to get rid of them to have a healthy business. Dump this guy, politely, but firmly. "I'm sorry but I'm not going to be able to provide support any more because priorities have had to change and I won't have the time, it's nothing personal it's just business".
If the guy takes it badly, that's his problem.
Tell them to go to hell.
A man can dream can't he?
"I use a Mac because I'm just better than you are."
Why not tell them the truth, and if you need to, give them the name and number of someone that would gladly help them. Perhaps you can find someone that could use the money, such as a student...
I find that increasing rates also helps, as previously mentioned.
The bottom line, however, is that you need to learn to say "no". It really is OK to not give out free customer support to people, even if they're friends or family. If friends/family don't understand that you're not up to it after the year you've had, they're not much in the way of friends anyway.
Just be sure to give them an alternative, then it'll at least seem like you care about them getting a solution.
Sometimes it's best to just let stupid people be stupid.
That will get them off your back.
..exactly what you said above.
If they're any kind of decent, understanding human being, they'll figure out pretty quickly that they should give you some space.
I wouldn't feel bad about cutting off an end-user - I mean it's not like your being selfish with your own time, there are plenty of other people out there that could support them while you need a breather, they need to understand that. Period.
Then move far away.
This worked for me
"Sorry, but due to other commitments I don't have the time or the inclination to deal with your issues now."
"Cutting Off an Over-Demanding End-User?"
Damn. Taco's going to put the smack-down on someone.
I am about to go into a tunnel... then hang up.
"If we hit that bullseye, the rest of the dominoes should fall like a house of cards. Checkmate." - Zapp Brannigan
It's great that you've asked Slashdot users -- a community that is known throughout the world for its tact and ability to handle delicate matters -- to help solve your dilemma.
http://outcampaign.org/
well, of course they'll keep coming to you, because you're free, and you never say no. One or both of these has to change.
The reason girls and Windows users don't understand UNIX is because all the documentation is in Man files.
I wound down the suport aspect of my business a while back but the only way to get rid of the support people was to start raising the rates so they would find someone else.
I don't know what you charge now, but start upping it fast. Increments of 25% is a good way to wean people off stupid calls. You can always charge less, later. Demanding a 3 hour minimum is a good way to go as well (even 4 hour minimums).
Give away a new exciting and free upgrade with a compulsory EULA attached. In the EULA state that tech support is now limited to 1 call a month/year/never.
Does it go on forever?
Automate the response -- it may sound like a bit more work, but I've tried it myself and in the long run it seems to work out well...
For instance, for a while I had to look up certain results in a DB for a user and it was happening so often I just created a web interface for them to look it up themselves -- granted, that's an easy fix and I probably should have had that in place in the beginning, but it cut down the amount of time spent trying to figure out why certain things were hooped by about 95%. Now, whenever my coworker contacts me, it's for issues that are most likely bugs and not for DB row queries.
I understand that your situation is not exactly the same as mine, and my condolences for any hardships you are enduring - But perhaps there might be a way to automate this tech support for this user?
Another thing would be to talk to your superviser above you and if he or she is a good supervisor, they'll recognize the issues and try to find a solution that works for you.
Finally, if all else fails, just feign ignorance and the user will probably find another poor sys admin to hassle... =P
in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
How about just telling them what you told us?
"I have too much shit on my plate right now to take care of your technical problems."
You don't even owe them an explanation, it's perfectly ok to set your boundaries as you wish them to be. If after that they still bug you they're not your friends, they're just parasites.
Good luck with everything man, hang in there.
Get a mac and then "forget" about how to use windows.
I don't understand why you're oligated to fix this person's computer.
Are they paying you? Raise the price. If that doesn't work, raise it again. Problem solved.
If they're not paying you, tell them to fuck off. It's not your problem that they're too lazy to figure it out themselves or too cheap to pay someone else to do it.
Maybe not
The Mighty BOFH! All the advice you need (and plenty you don't) is contained therein.
Slashdot - News for Nerds, Stuff that Matters, in ISO-8859-1 Has just realised that beta makes this signature redundant
a) If they're paying you for support: Bump up the price.
b) If they're not paying you for support: See (a)
c) If they keep asking for support at the new price: Hire someone decent and take a cut!
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
and get a ridiculously expensive price list printed up. After the next free service call, hand them the price list and tell them you're starting your own small service business. Make sure to emphasize your desire that they remain a loyal customer.
loyalty above all, save honor
Dunno about you, SpaceNeeded, but for anyone else who wants to cut their support calls, just give them SpaceNeeded's email address, 'cause he seems to take on support even for systems he didn't supply.
"Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something" - Plato
Just do like the BOFH, and all will be well.
You are protecting that person from his/er own actions. What is his/er incentive to be careful and not click whatever "free emoticons / screensaver / pr0n" button that may appear in front of him/er, if s/he has some sucker to keep fixing it for free all the time? Make that person learn that actions have consequences.
Don't want a spyware-clogged machine, you annoying induhvidual? Choose:
1 - pay someone to clean up their shit
2 - avoid usual threats (MSIE, scuzzy emails, "free" junk, etc)
3 - learn to use a more secure operating system!
(of course, this is the principle, but try to sound nice, and sugarcoat the pill a bit...)
Circumcision is child abuse.
Be honest. Most people will understand that you have other responsibilities and cannot continue to provide support for their systems, especially ones they bought someplace else. For people who refuse to accept this and continue to bother you, are those really the people you want around anyhow?
...it can work for you. Forward your phone to a call centre in India.
heh, I just realized it's actually a lot like my real job; where I am isolated from end users and only get called in to look at something complicated the support department or other devs can't figure out. ;)
Before the regular cries of 'Supply Ubuntu' get too loud - that will _not_ work. They aren't up to Windows after a couple of years, and will expect interoperability with Windows systems (through college/employer) and don't have the technical skills to manage a *nix system.
There's so much screwed up here and your personal losses should emphasize that. Sell them a new computer to get the work done that you support. Put on an OS you know well and can administer remotely via OpenSSH and make the whole deal worth your while. You are not responsible for the rest and should quit wasting your time on it.
The ease of use of free software will surprise you. My wife and four year old girl work KDE's desktop with ease. I manage to get along very well without Windoze with less effort than my Windoze using peers, despite continued compatibility breaking changes M$ throws out constantly. I know several people like that who have all sorts of jobs in primarily Windoze environments.
Your customer's institutions and software vendors have failed them. The customer does not have the skills to manage a Windoze system but that's not their job, is it? The end result is less than interoperable with any network other than the botnet. These are not your systems or your problems. Make the University/Company IT support your customer outside of your system's unique product, regardless of what OS it runs on. It's not your job to set up email and you can't do it because you don't run the mail server for example. If the company won't make life easy for it's own, you can't either. Don't pretend that you can solve all of their problems. If all you do is sell hardware, you don't have any more obligations than Dell does for software.
Your losses should give you some resolve. Your time and your life are limited. Spend your work time with customers and more of your time with your friends and relatives.
I'm sooooo glad I don't do Windows and don't have to.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
When I switched to linux.
Now whenever someone needs help with something I tell them that i refuse to work on windows systems because I'm "only familiar to debian".
perpetually dwelling in the -1 pits
They don't value you, so they aren't thinking of the costs to you, or the worth that your actions might have for them. Instead, they feel entitled.
It is very scary.
...if you aren't charging for support to a computer you didn't supply, or supplied while giving no illusions of personal support, then you are getting screwed. Expertise and personal attention together is worth something. I even charge my grandparents, though at a heavily discounted rate. I can't afford to divert much time and gas to help them, so them paying me makes it a little easier.
"I don't support home users, because it would cost you less money to simply purchase a new Dell box than it would to hire me to fix your spyware infestation"
cat
Look, you can't change the way you work because of what happens to you away from work. Having personal problems is no excuse to change the way you do your job. The company that pays you and the customers that pay them deserve the same effort while you're at the office regardless of what's going on in your life.
STFU & GBTW
Tell them that you've lost two relatives and a third is in a pretty bad way in hospital. An eleven year relationship ended a couple of months back, and you're now having to perform _all_ the domestic tasks that used to be shared. Between these few things and your regular job you're finding that you have a whole lot less time to allow to support calls.
Considering your post clearly indicates that you did not supply the systems to him, and seems like you've been doing this as a favor since the beginning, there's no reaosn you can't tell him the exact same thing that you've just told thousands of Slashdot readers.
Caller ID supplimented with a malfunctioning answering machine ..
I always charge everyone. Now maybe I only charge a 12 pack or dinner or some trivial token, but they always know that my services are not free. I charge my mother, sister - everyone. If it's a quick question, I'll give them the answer, but I am quick to point them to a website or the help. Even when they do pay me, everyone is quick to thank me and I reassure them - "No problem, I do this for a living". One thing this has taught me is to use my friends talents. My realtor found me a house in exchange for a website waiving the realtor fee, my sister grooms my cat - for free. My friends that use me as a resource always know that there will come a day when I will ask for their help. I had a friend send a crew over to redo my lawn - for free.
:D
Use the barter system. If your friend likes PC support, ask him for some help with _all_ of the domestic chores you have. Oh, and hire a cleaning lady, you can generally get one to come in twice a month for around $1-200 - then fix her computer for free cleanings
ymmv
THEN hang up. Gotta put some effort into your act!!
My book, podcast
You had a situation where you could do five minutes of work and be paid $240 for it, but you cut people off because they did not space their support calls in such a way so that you would do more work for the same money?
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
If you aren't resourced to help them, point them to someone who is. Even if it's a consultant who will charge them money, at least you're giving them an option, instead of just hanging up.
There's no failure quite as dissatisfying as a complete and total solution to the wrong problem.
Just get slower, and slower to respond to people you think are abusing the privilege. By responding so quickly, you're training them to come to you. Take more time. Rarely will they complain, as they're well aware they're getting something for nothing and are abusing that favor.
The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
You have to be honest about what you're in it for:
:)
:-D
-First thing you tell people when you build them a system is that you don't do tech support unless there's a problem with the hardware itself.
-Second, if they need system level support, recommend a friend who does it.
-Third, if that doesn't work, declare that the going rate for computer tech support is $75/hour. For a min. of 2 hours.
-Fourth, if they're still insistent, get new friends and don't answer the phone
A friend of mine who is a doctor gave me some great advice about all the "free professional advice moochers:"
Intrusive Acquaintance: Say, I have this pain in my leg and some blood in my stool...
Target of Instrusion: That sounds serious...you should see your doctor about that...
There's also great Dilbert cartoon:
Office mate: Dilbert, how 'bout you come over to my place tonight and fix my computer?
Dilbert: OK, while I do that, you can go to my place and clean the grout in my shower!
Office mate: That's crazy talk.
Dilbert: Well, I'm not the one who majored in "Comparative Literature."
Maybe you can trade tech support for some help with those domestic duties you mentioned?
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
This isn't mean - it's fair. Everyone has something to trade with, even if it's just an IOU.
I [may] disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
First, avoid suggestions about ignoring these people. This will simply get you labeled as unreliable.
:)
Instead, simply state - "I have no free time for free work anymore... so my free time now costs $x00 per hour in one hour increments. What time would you like me to show up?"
You can sugar coat it all you like, but this MUST be the bottom line, and you must be verbose about it. You simply do NOT have any free time anymore. Literally.
Unless they are willing to trade some of THEIR time for these domestic chores, etc... stranger things have happened, after all... and once you've placed your cards on the table, your friend might quite like the idea of reciprocation. I once got paid in lawn mowings, for example.
Hope things work out for ya -
- sbb
help me i've cloned myself and can't remember which one I am
Run over their dog on the way out of the driveway.
If I did not supply the system, I give them 5 - 15 minutes. After that I tell them that this task is to large to handle like this. I offer to fix the problem for them for a fee. Too many people think that Tech Support is FREE no matter WHO supplied the system and what support # you call. My time is valuable, and if I did not supply the system, then they should call who did, or compensate me for the time I spend helping them with their system.
Tell them you'll do support for them if they do your household chores for you. Might sound a tad mercenery, but from the sounds of it your effectively cleaning up their computer for free so why shouldn't they clean your house. Alternatively they might have skills you can make use of for example doing things such as proof reading in exchange for your services. This would free your time up to do the easy task of fixing their poorly secured systems.
You have friends, relatives, workmates... they say "Somethings wrong with my PC". And because you are a leet computer dude, you fix it for them happily, with a bit of pride in your own abilities. Doing a something nice for a friend.
But they keep on coming back. You find that your kindness means you have a small collection of PCs in the spare room to be debugged from various people.
It's then that you start to get peed off. You realise it's gotten beyond a bit of friendly help and it's eating into your life too much. It's even damaging your relationship with those people. You resent them laying the burden on you, they get upset that you've taken a month to give back their PCs.
So you try and say "No".... but, it means that out there is some PC that can't connect to it's ADSL or something. The PC nerd in you can't handle that sort of bug in a computer that is in your "network". It hurts.
Hey man,
separate work from life.
You shouldn't take out your inner problems on your work people.
Don't take it personally. It is just software. Deal with it.
I'm not clear whether this is a matter of helping out an aquaintance or of going the extra mile for a loyal customer. Either way, I think the answer is simply to tell them that prior commitments and obligations prevent you from helping them out. If it is a close friend, you can give them as much detail as they'll stand to listen to. If it is a business relationship, I'd avoid giving them Too Much Information, all they really want to know is whether you can help or not.
The company I used to work (let's call them ACROSS) for in North Carolina asked the developer of a popular open source program to modify their program, and offered to pay them a sum of money to do so. Fair enough.
:-(
But after we got the modifications working, my boss kept on insisting that since they had paid this developer money, the developer must continue to supply tech support...
The problem was, the contact was just to make the modifications to the application, and it ended when the program functional in the way it was specified in the contract. But my boss at ACROSS kept on insisting that they continue to provide technical support for this open source project. As is usual with ACROSS, they threatened to sue the developer...like they threaten to sue anyone who doesn't knuckle under to what they want.
The moral of the story is to make sure you put everything in the contract that you want, and everything that you are willing to provide...and do nothing more or less. And until we get rid of all the Lawyers, that is the only way to work in this sue-happy world we live in.
ttyl
Farrell
CAN-CON 2019 - Ottawa's only book oriented Science Fiction Convention! October 18-20, Sheraton Hotel, Ottawa, Canada h
Throw it at them, thick and fast. Make sure you include every acronym known to the tech world. They'll look for someone else in no time!
Czech language for absolute beginners
First have them call IT in the Windoze centric cesspool they work in. This customer belongs to someone else.
Dell's, Toshiba's number are net. p.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
More Mac users = more Mac apps. I, for one, welcome our poser overlords...
"I like systems, their application excepted", George Sand (French)
try:
"Ok, i'm going to put you on hold, and it's going to sound like i've hung up, but i haven't, okay?"
then hang up on them.
If they call back, say you must've hit the wrong button and try it again.
or
"Oh, yeah, that sounds tough. I've never heard of that before. Jees, i just don't know, sorry."
IT people just don't get that it's okay if someone thinks you're too dumb to fix their problem. They see it as some kind of insult to their superior intelligence. Stuff them, i always act like i'm too dumb to fix anyone's problems but my own.
Start charging if you're not. And if you are, start charging more. Find an hourly rate low enough that it won't break your clients/end-users, but high enough to ensure they only call you when they REALLY need you.
Bill a minimum one hour for on-site work, and in 15 minute increments for phone calls. For phone calls, be firm about billing them for anything more than one or two yes/no questions, so they don't call you for every little stupid thing.
It may take a while, but you will eventually break them of their neediness.
Since I handle Internet services, repairs, builds, support and all that kind of stuff. One of the most common sayings I have is "I make more money off of other people's friends". Professional or not, I run into so many cases where a friend or a friend of a friend fixed problems for someone and made it worse (happens with professional services too tho I won't mention the company driving around in black and white beetles). I've seen cases where "my neighbor works for XXX and is MCSE certified. He's the one that always worked on my computers". They know that person, and usually don't like to hear "well, he did it wrong."
So, if you don't want to deal with it....don't. I don't know you from Adam so I don't know what you do and don't know, but you'd probably be doing them a favor if for no other reason than making them learn to stop breaking things when they have to pay to get it fixed.
We all know that a PC you buy and a PC you build have basically the same parts, and that building it yourself is cheaper. That said, I've told every non-geek person for years who has pestered me to "build them a powerful pc" that when you buy a machine, you're paying for that 800 number in the manual, not the pile of parts. That number is worth every penny of an overpriced off the shelf PC because it removes YOU from the responsibility of fixing it.
Can't stop laughing... you made my day!
"I like systems, their application excepted", George Sand (French)
"This phenomenon is also one reason I am a strong believer in the service business-model for Free software. Selling high-quality, highly personalized service to be big corps with deep pockets can be very profitable."
Oh lovely. The "let's make money by taking advantage of people" business model. You all don't like it when companies charge too much (if the bitching on slashdot is any measure). But have no problem stepping into those same shoes. Have you seriously thought about becoming a drug dealer?
Find a competent college or high school kid and tell people that you're no longer doing free support for friends because you're trying to help this deserving kid get paying gigs.
That's the free market for you. If they're willing to pay it, I'm happy to be paid it. You expect me to ignore inflationary pressures while the prices are raising around me?
Turn off all the ringers on you phones. Build an Interactive Voice Response system. Spend plenty of time on an extensive menuing system as deep as you can imagine (and add a few more layers). Ensure that the only live person reachable through your rig is a pizza place in New Delhi. I am sure that you no longer will be bothered by pesky callers again. If you get a second phone line for people you actually want to talk to, be sure it is unlisted.
SD
âoeWho knew something as harmless as willful ignorance could end up having real consequences?â
Sit back, take a good breath and think if you were that other guy. The one without all that drama that has entered you life. Sit back as that guy and look at your user and think "do they really suck?"
Honestly.
If they are truly lame, and mind you, you have enough crap to deal with in your life, then you can't afford to deal with them.
Trust me. I'm about to fly to Boston to put both of my parents in nursing homes. The key is to put yourself in the mindset of someone who is not going through all the crap you are. And if the user still sucks, then well, I guess you know what to do.
If they don't really suck and you still can't deal with them then sadly, you can't. They need to be cut off or diverted to someone who can. Don't swamp yourself at this point. Divert the flow to others who have the bandwidth to deal with it or mitigate it. Use the remaining fresh air to keep your head above water.
Cheers and good luck.
Crap sucks. But that's sorta the definition of crap. Do what you must to get through it.
- Zav - Imagine a Beowulf cluster of insensitive clods...
You all don't like it when companies charge too much (if the bitching on slashdot is any measure). But have no problem stepping into those same shoes.
As one loqacious contractor likes to say - "bidness is bidness."
The service business ain't no monopoly, any buyer is free to walk away and hire someone else if they don't like the price. If they can't find anyone at the price they want, then they are welcome to either handle it in house (it is open-source after all) or move to another product.
It is hard to get less coercive than that.
Wake me up when you can get a custom kernel patch for Windows - from somebody other than microsoft - for under $100K.
When information is power, privacy is freedom.
Way to pull a subtext that isn't there out of your ass.
1) Put them old hold, for a long time, with really annoying music ..
2) Transfer them to random departments like accounting, or freight delivery
3) After they finally get back to you, cut them off.
4) Implement a long winded touch tone system that doesn't work (with no option of going straight to an operator)
5) Implement a long winded voice recognition system that doesn't work (note: if you implement this with the ability to listen in, it can double as a hilareous source of entertainment Customer: "Tech Support Please"...System: "Did you say 'Wreck your court with cheese?"
6) Disagree with them over silly and obvious things eg...Customer "Oh hi, I have a computer and..." You interrupting "No you don't"
7) Don't forget the good old "I don't have the authority..."
version 1: "I don't have the authority to answer that...I'll have my supervisor call you back"
version 2: "I don't have the authority to do that, you'll have to download our authorization form from , sign it, and fax it back to "
well, that's what works for my bank anyway
What's wrong with obvious dishohesty? "Believe it or not ...
a) (if you are white) "... my brother is in the NBA playoffs."
b) (if you are a guy) "... I'm pregnant."
c) (if you are young) "... my daughter is getting married."
Of course they will not believe you, but they will not be able to
come up with a response that sustains their insane demands within
the ... sorry, I'm going into a tunnel.
Yup. You should have gotten your Mom a Mac.
I've got one little only lady who started a Mac club of other retired old ladies. They all support each other.
If these are real customers, then you have some obligation to them. If they're just the standard "friends&family," then screw 'em. Tell them that you don't have time.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
My father has been getting me to support his Office LAN remotely. Its ok, but its a new request every 3 days or so. His system is a bit dated, but it works. I get my friend who still lives near him to go do the support calls. He gets paid a fairly decent rate. I get nothing. What should I do? This has been going on for about a year now.
Seriously, doing whatever you want to do is fine. Just decide up front what you are or aren't willing to do, and make it stick. Forget lying to people, or slowly raising rates to chase them off. Go ahead and do what you want to do -- just don't make everyone else read your mind in the meantime.
In the process, you can be as gentle or as forceful as you want to be, as long as you're honest with everyone involved.
They won't shut up and you just can't shoot them.
You could try being so abusive and nasty that they can't stand you.
It works for me.
-OB
Is that a SCSI connector or are you just glad to see me?
Sure, this seems heartless or selfish, but the truth is those higher end systems were every bit as good as whatever I could build for them, and not all that much more expensive. In the end they were more happy and thanked me because they had more time to use their computers.
In trying to keep this a non-biased post I will interject just one last observation. The people that I recommended to buy macs and did are still using the same computers from three years ago and are still happy. The ones that went with dell most all got tons of viruses and had a lot of support calls, not quite as happy, but it was their choice.
I've been there before, too many times to count. I've found a few things help a lot. The first and most important thing is to stop being nice to them. I know it sounds like a bad idea, but a lot of the time they think its a "buddy buddy" kind of deal. Show up, complain the whole time about how *they* are breaking everything, and leave with a nice bill waiting for them. At my work we constalty find ourselves over charging customers that are far too needy. People don't like bringing it for every little problem if they know its gonna cost them at least 100$ to get it fixed. Also, when they call you be sure to tell them your going to need to take there computer to your workshop, or that the server will be down for several days while you do maintence. Then simply take your sweet time.
People constantly think we have magic wands to fix everything, so just make sure they know we don't.
Also, add 50$ to whatever your charging them. Same thing next month, etc etc. You'll get extra income, and reduce "naggers"
Just think of the countless other unpleasant conversations you could completely avoid with this method! There's the "I'm cheating on you with your best friend." shirt, or how about "Your mother and I are getting a divorce."? The possibilities are endless!
Bring on the asteroid
And I tell them they have to leave it because I dont know when I can get to it.
Estimated time 1-60 days.
Win 98 did that I think.. or was it Win95.. can't remember. All I know is one of the older ones have unofficial service patches that fix a few vulnerabilities.
lots of good advice here. (I just discovered the BOFH and can't quite seem to quit spending company time on the, er, bastard.
Agreed. Somehow clients don't appreciate the work done when they don't have to do it.
... what I said, in the first part of this post.
Tech support clients would be the equivalent of medical patients in my practice, and in any practice we see all sorts of people, including the needy/clingy/demanding type of person who wants everything done for him (== her). "I want an Xray!" "I want better medications!" "I want to see a specialist!" And all this after the patient declines to improve his eating habits and "forgets" to take medicine. (You can envision the equivalent scenario for tech support.)
I will often tell the patient quite frankly: "I will work very hard for you --I will bend over backwards, if necessary-- but I will NOT work harder than you." And I give them homework. Measure your blood sugar twice daily, or do your back exercises every night, or mark on your calendar when you feel the pain coming on, or whatever. Don't come back until you've done that.
Not only would this (hopefully) improve his problem, but it also gives him an appreciation for what you're doing for him. It makes him less whiney because now he doesn't feel as helpless --there's something that he can actually do about it! And, of course, if he's a real loser, he won't see you again because he's not going to do what you asked.
I realize that the OP was referring to cutting off support completely, not helping his client improve the problem. On this, I would agree with other posters who have suggested telling him the truth, and then setting him up with alternative means of support, telling the client up front that he probably won't get as good support from Geek Squad or whatever, but you can't support him any more.
Then set a deadline to cut off support: "I can support you for two more weeks, and then that's it." This is important. Tie the deadline to some milestone so that he won't push you to change it: "I start my night classes in two weeks, so that's why I can't do this any more after two weeks." (It is irrelevant whether this is the true reason; you just don't want the client to say, "Aww, how 'bout 3 weeks? How 'bout 4?")
And then if that doesn't work then
404555974007725459910684486621289147856453481154 in hex is "You sank my Battleship?"
[GPG key in journal]
Use a call-tracking system, and have the user submit formal requests.
Define policy so that only properly submitted requests will result in support.
Justify it as a tool to accurately track time spent on issues, and number of issues to assist with resource allocation.
You'll never have to do support again.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
I'm sorry to hear about your hardships. I know from personal experience how health and family problems can make concentrating on work difficult.
That said, you need a new business model. I work for a company that was once in the retail/VAR business and is now pretty much pure-play service. We specialize in small- to medium-sized businesses (the SME sector), but do some residential work as a sideline. Scraping spyware and viruses off of Wintel PCs is part of our business, but the core is preventative maintenance. Towards that end, we sell service contracts.
The terms of these contracts vary, from three hours per quarter for a graphic artist with a desktop and laptop computer, to an open-ended 25 to 32 hours per month contract for a car dealership with two locations and a total of 42 workstations. The walk-in rate is $100/hr. and the preferred rate for contract customers is $75/hr. beyond prepaid contracted hours.
In other words, if you have a three hour contract, one of my techs will come out and do three hours of preventative maintenance (scandisk, chkdsk, defrag, clear temp files, check logs, OS patches, blow the dust out of the case, check for leaky caps, software updates and installs, check for spyware and viruses, etc.). Any crises that arise after that are $75/hr.
You want to update a system? We'll spec one out for you. $75/hr.
You want to get broadband or install a VOIP phone? $75/hr.
You get hosed early in a quarter and we have to recover your data? We charge our hours against your contract and defer maintenance to the next quarter. Or not. We pretty much play it by ear, but all of our customers get their quarterly maintenance done in the first two months of the quarter.
Our contracts automatically renew every year. You want out? Notify us within thirty days of the renewal date. We'll still do service calls, but it's $100/hr., not $75/hr.
We're pretty happy with this, our customers are pretty happy with this (we get a lot of referral business), so it's all good.
Your time is worth something. So charge for it.
k.
"In spite of everything, I still believe that people are really good at heart." - Anne Frank
Half my business is analogies.
"Saying there's a problem with the software because your firewall won't allow it out is like blaming your car because the garage door won't open. Let's get the garage door open first."
"Running your software without basic computer training, like knowing where you keep your backups, is like driving a busy highway without ever getting your license. Sure, you might get along fine, but it's not responsible. You had someone teach you how to drive, standing by your shoulder, while you learned. You need a basic class - here's how to find one in your area."
It's a common problem for the Tech Support team I manage - our users are by and large novices, and think that if the their books don't balance, the software must be broken. Many are entrusted with the financials of their friends, but don't realize that it requires basic computer-use skills. Helping without teaching, without helping them realize what they have to learn to thrive means you're setting them up for a fall later.
Just put it in terms they'll understand. They drive a car. They wouldn't drive it without knowing the rules of the road. The pain of doing it wrong is a crash. Drive home the consequences of not learning, including loss of data.
If you're speaking of removing spyware/malware, then two words
Li - nux
If you stop wasting time thinking how important you are/dumb your customer is/reading slashdot you'll actually be able to work much faster.
I can't belive how much time I killed thinking bad thoughts about my boss and his dumb decisions, then I realised I get paid no matter what and wow you'll never belive it, but doing what he asked took a lot less time then trying to talk him out if it and grumping around the office. Oh and making him feel like a nimwit probably didn't help in the pay raise area..
In related news, we have a few doctors who have refused to continue treating patients who won't take measures to help themselves - specifically, to eat less, and stop smoking.
A century ago, people died younger because of the predations of illnesses, malnutrition, and wars. Now its lifestyle, urban violence, and accidents.
It appears you may want to keep them as a friend, or at least close that if they want another computer in the future you can help them out with that. So you want to just stop supporting their occasional "issues". Then refer them to a support service. The only one that comes to my mind is My Computer Works (http://www.mycomputerworks.com). There may be others in your area, maybe the local Best Buy or something. I don't work for this company, but I personally know several employees and they are helpful to the people I *used* to support. It accomplishes your goals of off-loading their regular support, without something stupid like running over their dog or raising rates. Good luck.
I use to have this problem and what I ended up doing was charging for support. Basically you say that more and more people are asking for help and you don't have enough time to help everyone. Since you want to be fair and don't really mind helping rather than help "some people" and not others you've decided to charge a service fee so that people that REALLY need help can still ask for it.
Realise that the main idea behind the fee is to stop people from calling and encourage them to call other people that are free / cheaper. I charge $50 AUD per hour with a minimum of 1 hour. It's then up to you if you charge it or not. If you want to be nice you can waive it "just this once" etc.
Most of your request will go away and everyone understands why. There isn't really any backlash as long as you comunicate clearly that you are charging money to "fairly filter calls" and that the other alternative is not calling me at all.
"custom" means "made just for you".
How we know is more important than what we know.
If you don't have the time today, don't do it today. Tell them next week some time.
Then, if you are busy next week, tell them you can't do it then either. If you end up with the time, do it. People will understand if you are too busy.
set softtabstop=4 shiftwidth=4 expandtab nocp worlddomination
Cut your losses and run. If it's a business then raise your rates. If it's an individual then politely bow out and give them references to other sources of support. Tell them that due to new commitments and policy changes that you will not be able to do work outside of hours.
First, if you are really nice guy, just tell them you'll call them back whenever you have free to talk and just hang up. If they keep calling you, call your phone company to block that number. If this doesn't work, CHANGE YOUR PHONE NUMBER(s).
Really, it works. Only contact people you want to be contacted and tell them not to give out your number. Also make sure your new number does not get forwarded by the old number directory service and have your new number unlisted by the phone company.
If people start calling your work or emailing you, don't answer. If someone from the frontdesk at work give you a page that someone is looking for you, have them wait for hours. If all fails and someone does catch you, tell them you cannot talk right now and hang up (ABSOLUTELY NO "umm.. yeah, ok.. well... hmm ok..")
Indirect message is more honest than saying anything about your situation directly because at the end, only "users" (the bad kind) don't know the fact that life doesn't evolve around their problems. And only inconsiderate fools are consistant at trying to fool you all the time.
"Don't let fools fool you. They are the clever ones."
with them and they took advantage of your niceness. I speculate you will never hear from them again.
Wake me up when you can get a custom kernel patch for Windows - from somebody other than microsoft - for under $100K.
Exactly. And swords make much better weapons than machine guns. Those machine gun n00bs keep telling me that guns are better from a distance, but I'm yet to find _anyone_ who is willing to sharpen the blade on a machine gun...
Oh, ROTFLMAO!!! Holy smokes, Slashdot has the best comedians!!!
Install KDE in Kiosk mode so if they fiddle about with it and stuff things up, just logging out and in again will restore the settings. As part of the install supply KPDF and Kate, Festival, Mbrola, and kttsd. Together these projects provide a very effective text to speech system which reads text pretty well to folks who are either dyslexic, or have tired eyes. KMail is not yet speech enabled, so you will have to use Konqueror and Gmail instead.
If I was the customer, and you explained that to me the way you have explained it to the slashdot community, I certainly would not be angry or resentful and I would stop calling you so much.
;)
Sometimes honesty is a good policy. If it's too personal maybe leave out some of the intimate details, but it sounds like you're going through a hard time and the individual might even offer some personal support or words of advice (or a nubile relative, as I saw suggested earlier) in return for all the free technical support over the years.
Also, it might be a bit personal, but I almost feel like this question was asked to get a few details of the painful personal circumstances out in the open, without directly asking for support. A long term relationship just ended for me and I found I did this sometimes when I needed support - it was very important and invaluable for me to find someone I could talk to directly about the emotional issues I was experiencing at that time. Then again I'm a gimp sometimes, and I wouldn't want to tar you with the same brush.
I hope you find the solution to your problem, and all my best for the future - shit happens, and it sounds like you're going through the worst of it, but I firmly believe if you survive with a positive attitude things can get better.
Because I work with systems, I perform occasional builds. This occasionally crosses over to support (especially where it's my kit I'm asked to support). This isn't a problem, nor is it a problem when I get the occasional support query from someone I haven't supplied a system to, but who needs assistance
I had to read that about 3 times before I figured out what he was saying. I feel very sorry for the poor end users who have to decipher his techno-geek jargon. "Kit"? "Builds"? Speak english, man!
A better translation:
Because I work with computers, I occassionally build them for people. Sometimes, I end up having to support the people using those computers. Sometimes I support people using computers that I didn't build myself. And I don't mind one bit!
It sounds like you can no longer perform your job, due to personal circumstances. Instead of mistreating others, even with a smile on, try taking a haitus, or quitting and taking something you can handle.
Slashdot: Playing Favorites Since 1997
Instead of getting paid in greenbacks request sexual favors. This doesn't work well with your mom obviously but it can work in the right circumstance :> and you'll never be worried about their support calls again. If they refuse .. well fuck em ... their pooterz broken.
There is also the option of being honest with these people that you quite like personally.
Tell them what you just told us.
Some times, you will find that people are really understanding.
If they're not really understanding, then maybe you should reconsider if you like them. This is usually a sign that they don't really like you, and that you're just okay to have around because you fix things for them.
I know this is potentially hard to do. This always happens to people doing IT support (both hardware and software). I don't know why people are always willing to pay their car mechanics/plumber/electrician/carpenter/lawyer friends, while computer professionals are just expected to do things for free.
Anyway, my experience is: If people start taking andvantage of you, if they start taking you for granted, if they are abusing your goodwill... Then they are not your real friends, and it's time to end it off.
Ok, I know this is /. - news for the socially challenged - but is this one really too hard?
One word: Honesty.
"Dear X, I'm having very serious problems of my own and my mind is elsewhere. I'm sorry, but I can't help you at this time. Ask again when Y is out of hospital."
Or something like that.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
What's happened here is you were being a nice guy and got turned into a doormat.
I'm not sure what, if any of the below will be of value.
Experiences:
- I started building systems when I was in my teens as a student business. Started with family, friends, and moved outwards from there.
- As a teenager money was great, but I had no clue on how to manage people's expectations of what they were getting from me. Fair to Pareto, 80% of the work I did was great, the 20% that was a headache made me want to quit it all.
- The better I got at fixing things, the more garbage I seemed to attract
Realizations:
- Every relationship has its cost. If you can bear it, and are being given to in a way that makes things worthwhile for both of you, you wouldn't be here.
- I realized that becoming known as a person who dealt with garbage and had the capacity to come out on top and have it sorted it out attracted even more problems. Last minute things that could have been brought up earlier, emergencies that at the end of the day cost me more in the one thing I could never earn enough of, time.
- Offers to pay: can be bad because someone who is abusing your time will be even more righteously empowered to possibly say "I PAID YOU". I've found it far better to put the onus on them to remember, take notes if they have to in their own shorthand. That way if you told them once not to do something and made them write it down, and they forgot, once, twice, sooner or later you can point out that they arent putting in their due effort. I run my own consulting firm now and deal directly with small and medium business owners. If they can be trained to build better habits, anyone can.
- It's better to say that you'd rather do what you can for free, offer to help them fix it once and properly if they're willing to be partners in that change, including them having to learn and maybe even, remotely, understand a thing beyond looking at you with deer eyes.
Litmus tests:
- Where there isn't a mutual respect of one anothers time, things are often going to end up awry for one reason or another anyways.
- Where people don't want computers as much now, I get asked a lot for laptops. I have a good deal specced out from Acer, Dell and a few other suppliers I can purchase through cheaper than stores. I load them up with a 3-4 year warranty, sometimes even with accidental coverage. I like helping nice people, am gainfully employed elsewhere and don't mind helping someone save a few dollars. So I don't make anything on it. This absolves me of any involvement, and it becomes Dell's responsibility to service. Shoudl they fail, I have to go in and shake some trees, but that has been much less.
- When people cross compare/shop. Stick to your guns. I have a rule that the only successful computer I get someone is one that I never hear back about again. If you find people who are willing to listen, spend a little, buy the right antivirus/firewall software to protect them, I often forget I ever helped them. I had even forgotten I got my own cousin a laptop a year ago because I never heard about it again.
- Push people to become self sufficient. If something is broken, dont jump in and go click crazy. Install a remote control software, watch them over the phone, make them do all the clicking. They hate having to click through their own problems when you could be doing it for them. Most people will take the path of least resistance. You have a choice in that. You can do it for them and train them to keep coming back, or train them that if you have to take your time to help them, they will have to pay attention and be a part of it. Man, do they hate it. The freebies stop calling. It does sink in over time. Empowering them to know what to do or try before having to call you is great.
- Managing Family: if you're good with computers, you have to be respected. if that means lockign down computers because they keep breaking over and over, load up
I've gone through tech support growing pains with my parents as well. Here's how I survived.
When my parents bought computers for their respective mothers, I made them be primary tech support for their parents. First, this taught them how it felt when the shoe was on the other foot, giving them greater patience. Second, they started figuring things out on their own, meaning less phone calls for me. Encourage manual use, it helps.
ian
I've never read it, which is why I let folks walk over me. Maybe it'll help. Folks I respect recommend it.
Main thing is to clearly define what you can and can't do right now. If your situation has changed, share with your friend the nature of the change. Set forth all the details, all the details, in triplicate, share your pain with your demanding end-user friend. If it isn't a career-limiting move, tears might be useful. If every time your friend calls with a support question, s/he gets an earful of all your problems--so much so that you never get around to answering the question, your problem will solve itself.
From your post, it is hard to tell, but it appears that you do system builds, but there may be a team which provides first level support for your systems, with you doing second level support. If this is the case, your primary responsibility is to these duties. If someone comes along with unrelated support needs, these can only be served if you are available to provide these... Does not sound like you are available. Inform the customer that this is the last time you can help him out, and in the future, he is to contact the primary helpdesk for support, as you are no longer permitted to accept direct customer calls for support.
If you do NOT have a first level helpdesk team to redirect the calls to - i.e. self-employed, pass the customer off onto someone else. You must know someone who needs the business. Tell the customer that your company is currently overbooked and you are not able to provide him the support he needs, especially since the systems he is using are not the type your company usually works with. However, you know a really great specialist who would be much more appropriate for his needs. If that does not work, use the shit-list rate schedule. Have a rate (discounted) sheet for the customers you want to keep, and have a (standard) rate sheet which is discouraging. For those customers you would like to manage out, raise their rates. For those you want to keep, raise the rates and then give them a discount. Makes them feel special.
In the meantime, get laid! Makes all of the troubles go away...
maybe you could ask him to look elsewhere. give some pointers to self-help forums or websites where he can download AV/firewall software (norton et al) or refer to some other professional group who take care of this business. tell 'em that you won't be able to solve the problem at hand given your work/time constraints. you're a developer working on a piece of code and you should only support your code if required. why go around supporting winblowz worms? (incidentally, you can ask them to call ms tech-support)
Well, presumably you have a manager, discuss your time allocation with him and ask him how to prioritize your tasks. (If your "demanding end user" is your manager, you have a problem.)
As for personal problems, harsh as it is, you get paid for a certain number of hours of work, and all things being equal, you have to perform them, come rain or come shine, no more and no less. If you're valuable to your employer, they may try to accommodate you and give you more room for a little while, or if it's a good employer, they may have a policy in place. If not, you might take vacation days (maybe just every few days), go part time temporarily, or take an unpaid leave.
Re my previous message, if you're doing this as a self-run business, just tell customers you don't get along with to go somewhere else. The problem may be on their end, it may be on your end, but either way, it's a relationship not worth continuing. Say something nice like "I'm sorry, but I have more business than I can handle right now. But I know Smith's Computer Support, and they'll be happy to help you."
There's nothing wrong with dumping a customer, but the correct way to do it is to 1) Be truthful with them, and 2) If possible, refer them to another professional who can help them.
The client can take it much better if what you have to tell them is "I'm very sorry but for personal reasons I'm not able to take care of your needs at this time. I've selected someone who can help you in my place, let me give you their name and number..."
It's also a good opportunity to throw a colleague some work. A friend gave me one of those clients he didn't feel he had time to deal with, at a time when I needed the work. It helped me a lot and I was grateful. Perhaps this incident can lead to some good for someone.
Wean him off. Don't fix it for him. Give him information about how to fix it. Q: "My computer keeps getting these annoying popups". A: "Install ad-aware and/or firefox". Q: "Wheredo I get that from?" A: "Try googling for it". and so on. Eventually they may learn something and fix a few of their own problems. Or even better - "Have you searched for the symptoms on Google?". Eventually he'll realise he's actually fixing his own issues.
It boggles my mind how educated people can be so intimidated by a few widgets. I've wondered on occasion whether a highly-structured alternative interface could be created based on a well-documented, interactive symbol notation written on sort of full-screen "chalkboard." I guess you'd need a second monitor for rendering graphics, etc...
After translating your post, I'm given to suspect typos in config files... specifically ones written by you. Sweet Jeebus.
:P (c) Jax
bugged, logged, shutting, Eventually Double those consonants!
losing But not that vowel!
And forgodsakes kill those runons!
captcha: damaging LOL
Tell them the truth. That you're not coping and need to re-prioritise.
If they're family offer to help them learn where to get the information they need, but not to solve their problems. Suggest a good computer course and tell them this is what they need if they want to learn. Make it someone else's problem (perhaps a community college teacher) without it becoming nasty. If it's really close family I'd set up once or twice a month where I'd help but only then and only pre-arranged not last minute.
If they're a customer I agree that you should up their rates and not do it for free. If that doesn't mean you get less calls, at least you'll have more cash. The other thing you can do is screen your calls and only get back to them after 2-3 days. They'll either find someone else or you'll get to arrange the times to something more suitable.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
nothing more to say
...for a small consulting fee, I can teach you how to get rid of it.
There's a big difference in most people's ethical views between ripping off an individual, and slightly exploiting a large company.
As in this case, if they have cheaper options and don't go with those even if they're the same quality, then they are the only ones to blame.
Okay, pretend this isn't about computers but, for instance, car (automobile) repair. You'll have to substitute the relevant vocabulary for your locality.
You are supplying cars for a living. That's what you do, deliver cars to customers who are then opening the bonnet (hood) of THEIR car and asking you why it's making a funny sound. If you want to help them, that's fine. More likely in the car analogy, a car delivery person would have a quick look (as someone who knows a lot more about cars than they do) and then say "you need to take it to a garage", "it just needs an oil change", "read your owner's manual" etc.
That's what YOU do. Tell them to take it to PCWorld, search Google, tell them what they need to do. And that's only if you are feeling generous. DO NOT DO IT FOR THEM or they will just get dependent... "Oh, but you did it for me last time".
Think what would happen in the car scenario. You WOULD NOT expect someone, even a friend, who delivers cars for a living to, in the middle of the working day, start taking your engine apart FOR FREE just because you asked them to. You would also not expect them to come back once their round has finished and do it for you. You would not expect them to devote hours to changing your gearbox because you were so stupid as to put it in reverse at seventy miles an hour.
By the same token, these people should not be expecting you to spend time fixing stuff that THEY shouldn't have broken, that is their responsibility, that is not trivial. They should be paying to take their poor, broken computers to a garage, not get a free ride from yourself, no matter how good a friend they are. If they are agreeing to pay you lots of money/equivalent favours, you have the time available AND you actually WANT to do it, then do it, but don't let them EXPECT you to do it and get mad at you if you don't. That's their attitude problem.
My father was a car/lorry mechanic and I'm an IT Technician. It's quite amazing the analogy between the two professions and we often relay similar stories from both our fields, whether it's the customer who brought their car in with no gearbox attached, or the person who brought their PC to me without an operating system and asked why it didn't work like their friend's one.
My dad got roped into no-end of repairs for friends etc. until people started taking the piss, where he then stopped it for everyone but his oldest, most grateful friends (the ones who paid him when he didn't even ask, the ones who REFUSED to let him do the work without some sort of reward, the ones who showered him with cups of tea and biscuits while he worked, the ones who paid for WHATEVER he said they needed to repair it safely, the ones who took ALL of his advice, the ones who STILL had their vehicle regularly serviced at a garage and only asked him when they were REALLY stuck and not forgetting the ones who sent him and his wife a present EVERY birthday/Christmas and also gave both his sons a small gift when they went to University).
Don't be a doormat. You have a life and that's inifintely more important than these people's computers, just because they see you as a free-ride to a working machine. Friends should ALWAYS feel a little guilty about asking favours, if they don't they are not friends. A PC is for life, not just for Christmas and they should realise that they have to maintain it, learn how to use it and have it regularly checked over by a qualified expert. That's doesn't mean YOU, unless you WANT to (which you obviously don't).
As to how to go about it, just tell them you're busy. It's quite easy. "Can you do this?" "No, I'm sorry, I'm busy." "What about later?" "No, I'm sorry, I'm busy, I won't be able to look at it."
Working in many different schools, with dozens of staff across them, not to mention private jobs, friends, family etc. I get this *all* the time. I switched to a Linux desktop myself to stop all the never-ending problems and yet they want me to repair all their unmaintained Windows mac
Any refusal to provide said meal indicates that the friendship is truly one way and best left to expire.
If avoids the mess of attempting to charge a friend money because when you do then you become more like the used car salesman that pretends to know about computers (you know the ones that make most of their money from their "friends")
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Having a minimum call-out fee and insisting on payment in advance for the first N hours of work does wonders too.
I'm not sure if this will ever get itself modded up high enough to get read (I know I only ever bother with the 5 point comments) but in true computer guy fashion, I'm going to answer the question you didn't ask...
... so how does making changes in your job fix that?
... you've got 'bad' users ... you always have, everyone always has them. Your problem isn't that you're having trouble dealing with the bad user it's that in the middle of all the other stressors in your life, this 'little thing' no longer feels like it. It now become a big issue ... truth is, it's a little issue that is a lot easier to solve than the breakup of an 11 year relationship and the loss of family and friends.
... really ... leave everything behind for two weeks and just concentrate on yourself. Repair yourself emotionally before you work on this guy asking you computer questions ... you're way more important than anything else
Your problem really has nothing to do with supporting 'bad' users I'm not saying it isn't crappy but the truth is you're under incredible emotional stress right now that has nothing to do with your job
You know that old saying "when it rains it pours"? Well, that's what's going on with you right now
Take a vacation
"Sorry I don't support that".
meridian at tha.net
Simply saying "no" is something most people find hard, but it's also one of the more valuable skills to have. It doesn't need to be confrontational - a simple, polite "no" can be hard to fight against. Be honest; be friendly; but be firm.
The problem is that this person doesn't place any value on your time. The way to educate them is make them spend as much time as you do fixing each problem, so that they begin to understand and value the relationship between lost time and certain undesirable behaviour (e.g. opening e-mail attachments, failing to update virus software, etc.)
The best ways that I've found to do this are:
1) Make the person bring the PC over to your home or other location for service.
Most of these types of people can't even be bothered to unplug a PC, let alone bring it somewhere; if they can't spend 5 minutes, why should you spend hours?
2) Force them to sit next to you and watch while you perform the fix.
Better yet, sit beside them and force them to do, while you walk them them through it. They may even learn something, and if not, at least they have an appreciation of the effort required.
3) Be blunt with them.
With these sorts of people, its usually not fixing a range of problems so much as the same problem multiple times (usually virus or malware problems). Explain that once you fix a certain type of problem once or twice, its no longer your responsibility to get the user out that type of jam.
My Dad always has called me for help with his Windows machine at work. He us a University professor. I have been a unix admin and now am a router/switch/firewall jockey. Never in my career have I done Windows desktop support.
One time when my dad called me at work with some Windows question I said "Dad, you know they have IT people in your department who not only know Windows but know your systems/network better than I ever would. Maybe they can help you figure this problem out."
His reponse:
"I didn't pay for 4 years of college to get any backchat out of you. Now answer my fucking question!"
That kind of sums it all up.
"Where quality is like a dead stinking rat - you just can't miss it."
Screen the calls with an answering machine, or at least callerID. When you see the trouble user calling, WAIT. Listen to their message, don't call them back right away. The time you wait varies from person to person, so you'll need to expiriment. Start with 24 hours, then add 24 hours at a time.
Call them back "sorry I didn't get back to you, it's been crazy here" (probably the truth anyway).
Eventually they will realize that calling you will not get an emergency response, and they will either figure it out in that time, or find someone else to call.
This is easier to do with annoying people from church, PTA, your AA meeting, etc. Since you sold them the system to begin with, this is a bad technique to encourage repeat business. So make sure you want to get out of the small-build business before you use it. Remember -- "just get a dell" or "just get a mac" are perfectly reasonable responses to the "what kind of computer should I get?" rather than "I'll build the perfect system for you".
"But actually trying to use m4 as a general-purpose langage would be deeply perverse" --ESR
My GF answers my phone to my customers. When she wants to get rid of a difficult customer she says, "sorry, he's really busy and he can't see you for a month". If pressed for details she makes up some fiction such as, "he's taken a contract with a local company".
I used to have a similar problem. Because I used to do quite a bit of system building for family/friends/friends-of-friends, I consequently got alot of support calls and felt obliged to take care of "my systems" (I still don't know why). But after some time this became a nightmare, I was getting so much calls that I almost quit answering the phone and was afraid to go into the pub for fear of bumping into a friend with computer problems. I had to do something.
So, I did this: the first time someone contacted me to come by and fix the PC (some of them didn't really ask, they almost demanded it), I said sure, if you drop off the pc at my place, I will check and fix it and you can pick it up next week, so I can fix the pc when I have some spare time.
You know what? Since then (2 years ago) I only fixed 1 pc, because almost all of them don't want to be missing their pc for a whole week, so the go into some shop somewhere and I have my spare time back...
Why did you come here for free advice?
Can't you see we're busy?
This is not the sig you're looking for.
Worked a treat. I am root. They are not! I haven't had a call in over two months.
I was at their house the other day, the kids were using GAIM and playing Tux Racer. The lady of the house showed me her photos which she downloaded from her camera without me showing her how. My buddy had set up 'short-cuts' on the desktop for his e-bay account, his on-line banking, and autotrader without me showing him how that was done.
My advice, just do it. they'll love you for it.
Time for a new slashdot category, with a picture of Dr Phil.
And an option to filter it out.
EMail: 0110001101100010010000000110001101110010 0110000101111010011011100110000101110010 0010111001100011011011110110
I've cut off numerous people who've demanded tech support, family members who I regularly see and absolutely must maintain a good relationship with. Once their demands on the family geek became too omnipresent to tolerate, with the corresponding lack of personal responsibility for keeping their gear clean despite clear and simple instructions on what to do and what not to do (complete with friendly, convenient desktop shortcuts), I dialed down my 'expertise'. Suddenly the weirdness they were experiencing had gotten beyond what I was familiar with, but I would 'try to do something anyway'. I'd clean out some stuff, using the tools I gave them, intentionally neglecting to go to any extra steps to actually repair any damage. They'd find their systems only marginally better, but not quite fixed. A few iterations, reducing my performance level each time yielded the response I wanted: They left me alone.
As a bonus, I have inherited a few "unfixable" machines when they decided replacing their systems was a better solution than trying to fix them. They needed the upgrades to do what they wanted anyway.
Other strategies include "always busy" which can come in several varieties, some of which you've already mentioned, but one of my favorites is "Yeah, I'm having problems with my machines too, as soon as I get my stuff figured out I'll see what I can do for you." Or you can go with the "I'm upgrading to the new version of Xyzzy that just came out." Or anything along these lines. Then of course there's the no matching free time in the schedules (because you have to do the support on site - NEVER EVER LET THEM BRING YOU THE MACHINE TO FIX IT. Only let them bring you a machine if the intent is for you to KEEP IT. Eventually they either find someone else (win), just live with it (win), or upgrade (win-win).
Bottom line is, you've got to allow yourself to be just a teeny bit dishonest with them. It's a war against your sanity and your best defense is subterfuge.
1.Netcraft confirms:In Soviet Russia all your base welcomes a beowolf cluster of CowboyNeal overlords. 2.? 3.Profit!!1!
Sadly enough, I can't do any of that when it comes to my wife's computer questions - I just have to grin and bear it....
..........FULL STOP.
"..wave a dead chicken around.."
Back in the day we sold complete business systems based on Apple computers, and one of our developers was having mysterious problems with one program. While trying to track it down he implemented a joke error screen that would pop up and say, "Bad ju-ju error 456. Please wave chicken bones over computer." (456 was a trace number)
Anyway, about six months later we received a call from a customer in Louisiana who said he'd gotten the error message, had been waving said chicken bones for the last half hour, no joy, and what gives?
We explained the situation, but needless to say, the customer was not as amused as we were.
True story.
Any sect, cult, or religion will legislate its creed into law if it acquires the political power to do so.
I have been in a very similar situation before. I solved it by sending the offending person an invoice for my time at $80 / hour. When they called to say what is this invoice, appologize and tell them you account for all your time spent and accidentaly included them in your invoicing run. When they see that they have spent hundreds of pounds/dollars/drachma of your time, they are usually much more circumspect in asking for help. I did this to my sister and she stopped calling to ask questions every day, now she only calls when she cannot figure it out after doing research.
Another method that I used on my mother was "Buy a Dell" and then when she calls for help, just say you are too busy to speak right now but she could call the Dell help line which was part of the package she got when she bought the Dell. Now I only get calls like this:
Mom: "Oh good, your there, hold on a minute"
Mouse: click click click
Mom: "Great it worked, thanks, talk to you later"
She just wanted to know I was there to get her out of trouble if she tried something she had never done before. She tried it, it worked, and that was the conversation. Almost any time she has a problem she will call Dell first and only if they cannot help does she call me.
"Computer Scientists can count to 1024 on their fingers" (non-mutant, non-mutilatated, human computer scientists)
Those that, when asked for help by collegues/clients, never say no and immediately go help that said collegue/client fix the problem, usually end up overworked with fixing stupid "problems" which the other person could've fixed himself (only its'easier to ask you).
It doesn't matter if your're sick, or if your life took a hard turn in the wrong direction latelly - once other people get used to coming to you for help fixing most kinds of problems they will just keep coming even if things aren't going well with you.
It's actually a very common human behaviour - people simply choose the easiest way out of their problems, and if the easiest way is by getting a friendly problem-fixer to solve it they will take that way almost everytime.
The way to solve this without actually saying "No!" is to make it so that you (friendly problem-fixer) are not the easiest path to getting problems fixed, except maybe for the real problems that nobody else can fix.
Essencially, you can use the following techniques:
- make it more costly to get your help (in money and/or their time - after all, time is money)
- provide them with the tools to solve their own problem and pressure them to use those tools before coming to you for help
- provide them with an easier path to have their most common problems solved
Thus, for example if you're a contractor you could:
- Make/increase the cost of getting you to give support.
- Make people jump through a couple of hoops to get your help - for example the above mentioned "bring your computer to my place and i'll fix it" method
- Provide customers with instructions on how to fix common problems (ie documentation, such as a mini-FAQ). If they still bring these problems to you, remind them that they have instructons on how to solve it, delay fixing the problem for a while and them come back to them and ask them if they still have the problem - they'le probably fix it themselfs.
- Provide customers with the contact of a company that can help them solve the more basic computer problems.
Similarly, if working within a company you can:
- ask them to go to your manager to reserve some of your time to solved their problem and/or book that time in their budget.
- make them jump through hoops to get your help - for example, requiring a complete description of the problem in an e-mail before you move a muscle to help them
- teach them how to fix it the first time the problem happens and next time insist that they try it themselfs first (and just to make the message clear, delay giving direct help)
- tell them to go to the "whatever" (Systems/Database/...) Administration department 'cause "they can fix it for you".
I was about to price-shop for a decent Mac, but reading these last three posts convinced me to stay far, far away from that company and these people.
Cheers -
~An Anonymous Windows User.
...or you could post something to my favorite web site.
Ok, I can take a hint Cliff....
Stop accomodating and fuck 'em. That simple and you'd be surprised how people get out of the way once you begin to assert yourself. Rent Cobb with Tommy Lee Jones for inspiration, but don't rape/pistol whip anyone. ;)
I work at a computer sales/repair shop, and I am all too familiar with your problem. There are three customers I can think of off-hand that match that description. They are customers that will call you at the drop of a hat, to ask you basic computer use questions. Thhey are people that call you 2 minutes after they encounter a problem, having spent basically no time trying to solve the problem on their own. They will call you and ask you to walk them through what you realize is a 20 minute procedure. And they'll call sometimes 5-10 times per day when they are having particular problems. It's common for them to call back less than 5 minutes after the end of their previous call.
This almost always gets started because someone at the store initially gives the person an absurd amount of phone support. The customer lacks basic consideration and common sense, and now considers you to be his personal technical support and will now call you at the drop of a hat because you are "so helpful". The customer is certainly part of the problem, but you've done it to yourself.
These customers are particularly difficult to deal with when they are good, frequent, paying customers. It's hard to say no to someone that buys several thousand dollars of your product every year. It's been my experience that most customers are easy to "show the light" that they are being unreasonable, and will hapily scale back their calls if requested. We also have a professional teacher that specializes in computer training that we refer to such customers. Many times the customer is quite happy to pay ~$25/hr to have a professional come to their house and answer every question they have and show them how to do something. Very often one or two visits by this man solves the entire problem with a customer. We encourage the customers to get a paper and pencil and leave it by their computer, and write down questions as they encounter them, and arrange for an appointment from our tech support person at most once a week, say on Mondays, to answer the week's long list of questions. This helps them to get all their questions answered and minimizes the number of visits required. It also encourages them to think on their questions, most of which they end up answering themselves before Monday rolls around.
We have problems with new employees because the "leech" customers will quickly realize they have a new ear to talk with and will usually ask for the new guy by name, because they have subconsiously figured out that the new guy will spend absurd amounts of time on the phone to help them, so it's important to train the new people on how to handle the tech support leeches. We try to enforce a "5 minute rule". This means if at any point in the conversation it occurs to us that it will take more than 5 minutes on the phone to help the customer, we ask them instead to bring in their equipment or schedule an on-site. MOST customers will either bring it in, schedule an on-site, or get offended at the idea of spending their money for assistance and hang up. A few will simjply continue to insist that you help them for "just a few more minutes". Those are the inconsiderate ones, the true leeches, and often times you simply have to put your foot down, despite customer relations. We use peer pressure to help with this, and if we spot an employee on the phone for a long time with a customer, we will hold up an open hand and mouth "five minutes" to them to remind them.
We try to use analogies with some customers, to show them why we cannot talk with them on the phone all day. One of my favorites is the car analogy. "When you buy a new car, the salesman will help you with how to operate the new power seats, show you where the spare tire is at, and tell you about what regular maintenance the car needs. They will not teach you how to drive. That's not their job. You have to learn that for yourself, or hire someone to teach you how to do it". It's amazing how this pulls things into focus for most users, hits them like a bat, and knoc
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
1. Start charging them (1x a month free, $50/hr 1 hour min)
2. Get caller ID... stop answering when they call.
Let it go to voicemail.
3. If i you think its not worth your time ignore them for a little while,
then recommend another service. (I hate to say this, but Geeksquad.)
You can always say "sorry, I was busy". It's easier to ask for forgiveness then it is to get permission.
The Man in Black
I decided the only way was to stop all of it, period. I support the machines in my household, my dad's PC, and it ends there with no exceptions. My girlfriend sometimes gets frustrated becasue I won't work on her parents stuff, but I don't care, I won't put up with it all again. If they want support they can pay for it from a PC shop or their vendor.
If they wanted to save a few bucks on the cheapie support contract with their vendor or don't want to invest the time to learn that isn't my problem.
I support exactly 4 PC's (2 are mine, 1 is GF, 1 is my dad), outside of that I don't care if Jusus rises again for the sole reason of asking me how to change his screen resultion, he can get bent.
Saying Java is nice because it works on all OS's is like saying that anal sex is nice because it works on all genders.
You absolutely need to get over to http://www.nomoremrniceguy.com/ - get the book, do the exercises. People arent "draining you" for support, you are letting them. Figure out what you want and then go after it - if you want to keep doing the support, but want adequate compensation, be direct about your needs. Establish your boundaries. Be your own man.
just forward them to the proffessionals.
Tie two birds together: although they have four wings, they cannot fly. (The blind man)
The reason why these analogies and indeed this whole line of thinking is bullshit, is because the medical industry has a monopoly on treatment. Only doctors can provide prescription medication, only approved parties can manufacture these drugs. Until this changes, the doctors have no grounds for complaining about their patients.
Did he threaten to embed his foot in your ass, too? Your old man sounds like a good guy.
I'm sorry to hear about your loss and the breakup of your relationship. I just lost my brother, and my marriage collapsed, about two years ago. In all honesty, I was a mess, something like you feel now, and I was the problem, not the customer. I took a sabbatical, draining my 401(k) in the process, but I feel completely re-energised after spending three months relaxing, catchin up on home projects, etc. Good luck with everything. If you can afford or manage it, take some time off and talk to a grievance counsellor. You're going through a very difficult time.
You need a wingman to take that annoying "customer" away. Find a friend that's PC literate and introduce them. Bring up some problem they were having and watch your friend get involved. Make sure they swap contact information and then run away.
Be professional. Develop a letter explaining the situation and saying that you will no longer be able to continue user support. Apologize for it and offer to assist in finding another professional who can meet their needs.
Be honest and polite, but definitive. Your users will appreciate it. What they will not appreciate is dishonesty on your part or an unexplained cutoff.
CC
His reponse:
"I didn't pay for 4 years of college to get any backchat out of you. Now answer my fucking question!"
My 'ol man had a similar response -- albeit the situations are slightly different (he's retired). I got him a iMac. VERY FEW calls related to computers -- and yes, he uses it all the time (along with Mom -- she got the Powerbook). How do I know this? I admin the system where their emails sits and can see how often they check/send.
Explain to him that you need to chat with him about an important matter, and that you'd like to buy him dinner and talk it over. (It's a him right?)
Over dinner be honest and explain what you are and aren't able to do for him in the future, maybe even why, you have really appreciated his business until now, you don't have the time you used to have to help with the "other" systems, etc.
A free meal goes a long way towards smoothing these things over.
It was called the ThinkNIC. Nowadays, the domain isn't even active anymore, but you can google for info if you like. I still have one; it was my moms first computer. She loved it, she couldn't screw it up, and it never broke.
Sometimes good ideas just don't get the traction they deserve.
Read the classic BOFH stories. You should get tons of ideas!
Now, mod me down freely. My karma can't get any worse...
..about your personal life.
What the fuck does it have to do with your question?
Quit whining already.
grab one of these http://www.thinkgeek.com/tshirts/frustrations/388b /
Now that's subtle-TEE in action!!!
Subject says it. I agree with the parent poster.
You may not want to disclose details or you'll get flooded with sympathy calls and such, but I think your friends and close associates will be kind enough to understand that you are going through some personal issues right now. Your health is more important than anyones computer.
And if none of these great responses work, try this. I tout myself ahead of time as only a software guy who knows nothing about hardware. A little iron filings into the rear fan quickly turns any software issue into a hardware issue, not my bag baby.
No meds required! No prescriptions required! No monopoly on treatment!
Besides, whether its doctors, coders, or whoever, we all have the right to complain about customers who are a royal PITA, who don't make even the minimal effort to help themselves, who waste everyone's time, who just seem to suck the energy out of any room they enter ...
Most of the idiots I deal with follow a pattern. It varies in details but the theme is the same -- attempt communications NON-FREAKING-STOP until they get an answer. Typically, I will be away from the desk or something, and they'll call four or five times, leaving one message at the end once they realize I'm not there. Afterwards, they'll usually call a couple more times over the course of the next thirty mninutes, then email me telling me about the voicemail, then email either my boss or my sales partner asking why I won't call them back.
(Of course, it wouldn't matter, since 99% of the time, when I return a user's call, they aren't there, or they're calling from their car or something, meaning they're nowhere near the device or machine that is giving them problems.. but that's another rant.)
Once I've been here a little longer and have the clout to throw around I'm going to implement a policy whereby a user is allowed ONE communique of any medium, and I will get back to him when I have the time, but for every subsequent attempt at reaching me after that initial attempt, I will add two hours to their response time. Contrary to their belief, they are not important -- they are but one of hundreds of other doofuses I have to support and my job entails more than just supporting doofuses, which means I have other things to do, which means every time they call and get pushy about their problem, they are pissing off the only person who can help them.
Thankfully my boss has already green-lit this idea, but I'm not going to do it without permission from the owner -- hence the waiting.
Anyway, the point is that making people wait doesn't always work, depending on the type of userbase you're dealing with. Most people are impatient and behave like Ptolmey, sitting at the center of the universe while everything rotates around them. If you wait a whole 24 hours to call them back they're going to make your life miserable.
mirrorshades radio -- darkwave, industrial, futurepop, ebm.
Tell them to shut up and reboot. 99% of problems on windows systems are fixed by performing this operation.
I seriously hope you're not giving this kind of advice to diabetic patients. If so, you're doing a lot of harm to them as their medical mentor. At the BARE MINIMUM, if they're diabetic, they should be measuring their blood sugars at least 5 times a day:
My wife is a diabetic and a celiac, and she checks herself no less than 7-8 times a day. Granted, she's also a very athletic woman, and that means she's brittle, and sugars can vary wildly between meals and before/after exercise, but a stoic person with diabetes should be checking at LEAST 5 times a day.
I've had conversations with people who say: "I check twice a day, and I'm 120 both times", and they think they're fine, but when I ask them to check more often for a few days in a row, they find out that they're spending the entire day over 400, and then dropping at the end of the day before bedtime. This all-day 400 is doing PERMANENT DAMAGE to their liver, eyes and feet (neuropathy).
Checking more often can give them a better baseline to work from, and extend their lives.
I'm not diabetic, but I'm married to one, and she's opened my eyes to an entirely different world of treatment and medical practice.
It's too late. You work for "systems," but can't be bothered to provide "support." You and your organization should be shut down.
There exists no way of exchanging information without making judgments. --Bene Gesserit Axiom
If experience has taught me anything, it's that you can't cut someone off "gently". It's an all-or-nothing.. if you don't do it right, they will jam their crowbar into whatever little crack you leave open and keep coming back until you turn into an angry, violent, quiche-eating trainwreck. Want someone else's opinion ? Find a mechanic! Tradespeople are stuck in the same boat as techies, they're always getting hounded by friends and relatives for free labour. Now I don't mind helping out a family member if they're nice about it, but if it turns into a twice-weekly affair of spyware/virus cleaning and other acts of stupidity, I just make myself unavailable.
Some people just take and take and take until you cut them off, that's just how they were raised. When I was single, the best way to get a computer tuned up was to invite me over for dinner; you're computer illiterate, I'm kitchen illiterate : fair trade. For those people who bring nothing to the table, they're just going to have to pay up.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
Delegate: direct them to someone else that can and will help them. "I don't have the bandwidth to help you right now, but [insert junior admin name here] is available. I'll let him know you're coming and brief him on what you need."
Delay: Push them off to a time that is convenient for you. "I'm in the middle of something else right now. Can you enter a ticket or send me an e-mail of when you'd be available when I'm free later. It may not be today."
Do it: Go get it over with so you can continue with the rest of your work.
Believe it or not, you can also say "No" and not offend someone. I'd suggest you fulfill their request one more time, but when you finish tell them that your responsibilities lie elsewhere. If possible find them a replacement support person that can take care of them.
My sympathies for your losses, but just hang in there; you'll get through it and be the stronger when life returns to "normal." I strongly encourage you to get the above linked book. Typical time management (Franklin Covey, etc.) does not work for IT people. This book is helping me greatly.
I'm serious. I don't have much of a support business on the side, because I let it be known to people that I don't do Windows. When people ask for help, if they cannot afford a mac, I refer them to my friend (some friend I am) who does support windows, he rebuilds PCs and charges $50 an hour, which seems reasonable. For the people who are in the market for a new computer though, I use my mac mini as a loaner. If they like it (i.e. they find out it really isn't that difficult to transition or use) they can buy a mac.
Only a few people took me up on that, and about once a week for a month I'd get a "how do I do this?" calls, and once they learned how to do all their work on a mac I get NO calls. Cool. Unless you need the money, or you like the aggravation of windows support calls.
I used to promote Knoppix to transition Windows users from Windows, but since OS X 10.2, I find there is nothing simpler to use out there.
More music, fewer hits
One of the things that SpaceNeeded failed to metion is whether the support he is providing is on a personal or professional level. However, I have suggestions for either:
Professional
- Charge by the hour with a minimum number of hours (e.g. 3) per support request.
- If you don't have the time/resources to deal with the support calls even if you're getting more money for it, pass the support on to a coworker who is sitting there twiddling his/her thumbs.
- No coworkers with free time? Hire a student/temp. Take a cut off the top of what you're charging the customer, and pay the rest to the person who's actually doing the work. Trust me, even if you charge $100/hr and only pay a student half of that, $50/hr is still a hell of a lot better than working at McDicks.
Personal
- If he/she is your friend, they probably already know about the issues with your personal life right now. You may have to gently remind them, though.
- Get them to bring their computer to your place and have them wait around while you fix the problem. If they have to take time out of their day(s) as opposed to sitting you down in front of their computer and buggering off, I've found that your friends/family are less likely to contact you about trivial problems.
- Since they're over at your place anyway, ask for a trade: they can clean house/cook/walk the dog/whatever while you spend X number of hours working on their computer.
If after all of this you still don't have time to deal with supporting everybody's computer, JUST SAY NO. Politely, mind you -- rudeness just alienates people, and whether you're talking about customers or friends, you really don't want to do that. Still, there's no reason that you have to be everybody's doormat.
A former coworker used to give occasional computer help to an elderly gentleman he met through business contacts. One day, he asked me to help him with his tech support for this guy. The coworker has since left, so now I get all those tech support calls because the guy has my phone number and I'm too nice to not help him (in all fairness, he only calls a few times a year).
So, give your problem user the name of someone else who can help them. Then change your number, so he can never call you again. (Only half kidding)
Your fantasies contain the seeds of important concepts.
TAX THAT ASS. Steadily increase the price until they stop calling.
When I did support, we had tiers for new customers.
New software, answer as fast as possible.
A couple weeks later, wait a couple hours.
A month after purchase, call back is in a day or so.
Tell them that you are on a call and will get back with them.
They either learn to do the job, or they fail and get fired.
This works for paying customers and relatives.
You won't need a custom kernel patch for Windows, it actually works with your hardware, unlike most Linux distros.
However, if you're a little less helpful, then people will sometimes think twice. For example, you get a call with a simple problem that you know you could just fix in 10 minutes, BUT you're fed up of the calls. Say something like, "I'm not sure what that is off the top of my head and I'd need to look into it. I'm, like, uber busy right now, so it might take me a few days... Let me know if you haven't figured it out in a couple of days and I'll take a look".
This accomplishes two things:
1) They won't want to hear your painful story again, as you will continue to mention it in all calls.
2) If the problem is serious/annoying enough, they won't want to wait for you to get to it. They'll often look into it themselves and fix it.
Most people aren't stupid - they'd just rather call someone like you (or me!) to get an answer in 30 seconds. It's easier and convenient. By following my advice, you'll make it less easy and less convenient. No need to cut them off completely, and by all means judge how important each call is.
Personally, I NEVER build computer computers for anyone unless it's very close family. Building a computer for someone means that you can't say "call Dell" and so you ARE the support. Sure, encourage independance, but it's virtually impossible to cut them off.
Slashdot: news for nerds. And we all know how well nerds play with the other monkeys. Rule number two for making friends: try not to be obnoxious. (Rule number one is shower approximately daily.)
"...you can get used to antything."
Not true! I have yet (and never will) get used to the litter box when a fresh one is in it nor will I get used to my wife's farts in bed.
Find customers that understand the time value of money. Clients like Law firms or Accounting Firms will not have a problem cutting you a check for over $100/hour because they understand their time is even more valuable than that. Customer that don't understand the time value of money like Retail or Wholesale companies will be much more hesitant to pay for you time because their customers expect them to service their good for free for the life of the product.
if anyone asks for help unf*cking their system, i offer an linux installation (usually ubuntu)....i then backup all their docs using a 250gb portable usb drive, install a linux system (while i drink coffee)....configure their mail, set up a firewall, dump all docs back and presto, they are virus/spyware free...and they are NOT on the sudoers list, if they want to make significant changes to the system as a whole (which they dont need, nobody needs that if everything is set up right) they get to call me, and i do it remotely. If they want windows support, they gotta call ms, that is if they have a legit copy, which they dont, most of the time.
for all your customers, send them a bill for all the work you have done. On that same bill, add an adjustment that brings that bill to $0.00. Give it a lable of "No charge for previous work" or "Service done at no cost".
Make sure your rates are posted on it.
It will list all the work you have done for them in hours and when you charge them for the next call, they have nothing to complain about. Also by charging them they will call less.
Never ever do anything for free. charge them $0.00 for it so it shows up on the invoice. always send an invoice for work done, even if its at $0.00. That shows them how much you are worth to them and they are more willing to pay for the stuff you do charge for.
Im a gamer, not a grammer major. This post is full of spelling and grammer mistakes.
While a modicum amount pity and/or sympathy is expected by most, I don't understand why people feel that if they're suffering then everyone else has to as well. Leave your personal problems and issues at the door and take care of your customers. Why should they be expected to suffer because you've got issues? They didn't kill your relatives and instigate your breakup. You mentioned nothing about your clients being to demanding, just you being to wrapped up in your own problems to deal with life right now. Deal with the grief and get on with your life! Or maybe you'd like some cheese with that. Grow a pair.
Terrible karma and aiming lower, which in this environment of one-sided reason, is higher.
Like it or not, jokes about homosexuality are a staple of current American pop culture. Are you so sure that's due to homophobia, or might it actually be part of a process of moving towards greater understanding and acceptance of sexuality differences?
Sanity check first. You say they didn't buy the computers from you, and they're not paying you for support. Therefore you are under absolutely no obligation to give them any kind of help. Not even social obligation.
So, basically you just need to say "I'm afraid I don't have enough spare resources at the moment to give you free technical support for your Windows problems. You'll have to call Best Buy's Geek Squad, Microsoft, Dell or Toshiba."
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
That'll shut them up fast. You're being abused because you're setting a precedent of giving things away for free. You will be more valued and less annoyed if you put a value on your time.
I confess I don't really understand the situation, you didn't provide the person a system, why is it at all your responsibility to help them?
just say no! No, no need to thank me! Can we have something that's interessting now?
___
No power in the 'verse can stop me
I work for a firm of professionals. Sometimes I get requests from shareholders or their family for assistance with PC issues. Whilst I am more than willing to help, I always ask that they bring it in for me to look at. There is sometimes the implication in the request is for me to go to their home. That I will not do as it sets a bad precedent. If the problem is bad enough that it cannot be fixed by the teenage nephew, then they bring it. Most of the time they find someone else.
I dont know why we computer people feel we should give our services away, but we do. Ask yourself this:
-If your "friend" is an accountant, do you ask them to do your taxes for free for you?
-If they're a mechanic, do they fix your car for free?
-How about if they're a lawyer, doctor, dentist, hooker, etc.
No one expects free service from other people, why are computer people any different? I'm guilty of this as well. If you're sick of it, when they ask you for help, ask them for help that is relevant to their field. Just hope they aren't a proctologist.
i stopped getting calls when i told everyone i would not support windows anymore. i am happy to help a relative or friend with foss, but my mindshare will not go to redmond. if anyone asks you for windows support, all you need to do is start raving about microsoft and the gpl and richard stallman and digital rights management, and sco, and whatever else might be topical on slashdot ;-) until they look elsewhere.
How is it this fellow grew to depend on you for third party Support in the first place?
:-)
I know you're having a tough time right now, but if you were my employee I would remind you to stick to the plan for your job, and send you home if you tied up the lines. Don't get sucked into being the guy's preferred support contact.
How would you handle training someone? I imagine you'd draw up a checklist or flowchart how to proceed with a call, so they don't skip important steps. Stick to it yourself... and you'll be amazed you can get out of work only 30 minutes after the final call for the day.
You need to politely, professionally and firmly push back on the guy. There are many good quotes already suggested to you. Just don't get caught in an argumentative loop or cases where the customer tries to build a logical case that it is your problem.
Sorry, had to say it.
The latest Slashdot meme.
It sounds like this is family/friends you've built for/supported in the past, rather than customers... If that's the case, you may want to try what I've done...
I have a tiered support arrangement with my family and friends.
- Everybody who lives in my house (me, my wife and a renter) uses one of a couple Linux boxes on the local network. Home directories are NFS mounts off of a machine that only I get to touch. Authentication is a small Kerberos domain. Mail/web space is also hosted by me. Occasionally, they'll ask me to install something. If it's appropriate, I will. Typically, gaming happens on the consoles, web browsing, word processing, email and accounting on the computer. It has worked well so far.
- My parents and my parents-in-law get free support.
- My parents have a few XP boxes and a Treo. I provide mail service for them. I keep their boxes mostly up-to-date, and clean up the mess when they get malware. XP is the appropriate decision for them, as the pro tax prep software my dad uses is unavailable for anything else, and my mom makes heavy use of Media Center.
- My in-laws used to have an XP box. My father-in-law bought an HP at Future Shop (the first computer he'd ever used) a year and a half ago, and within 1 month, it was riddled with malware, slow and generally crappy. I installed FC4 on it, locked it down, and set him up with everything he needed. He uses it for web browsing, email [family overseas], payroll and word processing. Linux suits his needs far better than XP ever did.
- Friends (not friends-of-friends) work on a simple system. They describe a problem, and I identify it as one of a) a six-pack problem, b) a 24 problem or c) a single-malt scotch problem.
- All others (and most people in the above groups if named Bob) know my hourly rates (with a 2 hr min) and make an assessment of whether it's worth the price to get their problem fixed. They are properly invoiced through my consulting corp. and usually can write off the expense.
I recommend Linux where it is appropriate, as it lowers my time-commitment (and hence their costs), and recommend XP where Linux won't address their needs (media, gaming, specific needed applications). I encourage them to use my mail services (spam / virus filtered), rather than the generally less-reliable ISP mail services, and set them up with appropriate tools to address their needs. They all have reasonable NATing packet-filters (either recycled Linux box or reasonable SOHO router) in front of all of their machines, and don't install new hardware without talking to me first.
"Let me get back to you."
It works pretty well in the business world.
End your relationship with them by helping them get someone else to do what they need.
Hmm... While I don't doubt that your example is accurate please note that not all diabetics can be thrown under the same umbrella. At the bare minimum there are people with good control and those with bad. Those that have type I and type II diabetes.
If I tested that many times per day I would have no fingers left. It is completely unecessary for me to test that many times as I have good control over my blood sugar levels. I test in what compared to your partner would be considered "occasionally" or when I feel low/high or have made a major change to my routine to ensure things are still in order.
My doctors agree as well and HBA1c testing (longer term average of glucose levels) shows up those people who only test at one time of the day and assume they are fine.
Go classic. Concrete shoes for you if you don't stop calling.
Just an idea.
Skot Nelson music is my saviour / i was maimed by rock and roll
"I really have to go drop a load. Call me back later."
As long as the user doesn't go into the bathroom looking for you, you get a break.
I have an uncle who's a SCUBA instructor. When I turned 13 (and same deal with my brother a few years earlier) I went and visited him for a few weeks during the summer; he got me certified and we went diving. It was awesome.
It wasn't *required*, and we wouldn't have asked, but hey, cool.
A few years ago that very same uncle wanted a website for the battery & emergency lighting company he has with another of my uncles. Guess who built it, and hosts the site and company email for them at less than cost? They understand that my normal clients always come first, and it might even take me a few weeks to get around to making updates. I'm comfortable saying "I'm going to be pretty busy this month, so...", and they don't treat me like they're entitled full-paying clients.
That's how it's supposed to work.
There's no reason to refuse any and all family requests for support because you're afraid of getting sucked in... and the "escape" if you start spending too much time is *not* necessarily being rude. Just learn how to say "I can't", politely and respectfully. Know your limits and don't even blink when someone asks you to cross them; switch it around so it's not even a choice for you. Learn how to say up front, "I'd love to stop by on Sunday and spend an hour talking computers after lunch... but it's possible you'd need more than that, and you might need to hire someone or take a class". If you offered to help with something that turns out to be bigger than you thought, SAY SO. "Wow, this looks like a bigger job than I thought -- lemme just close this up; you should take it in to a repair shop." Some relatives will already "get it"; some might not (or will ignore the signals because they're getting a little greedy). If *you* understand your priorities this won't be a problem. Just smile and say "well, I'm glad to help out, but I can't spend my whole weekend doing work stuff". Or "I've got a lot of projects going on right now -- try me again early summer when things will have cooled off a little".
It had gotten to the point where every phone call I received from her included a laundry list of computer woes.
So you want to tell your Mom -- "Listen Mom, I'm starting to feel like all of our phone calls are just about computer stuff now. When I see your number on the caller ID I'm starting to get that same dread like when one of my regular clients calls unexpectedly -- that's not a good thing. Here, lemme give you the phone number for _____; they can help you out with this stuff, and they're not too expensive. I love helping you out, but let's make a rule of '2 per month' or something like that to keep things manageable".
Notice how you explain how this situation (not blaming anyone) is causing something *she* doesn't want -- namely, you're filled with dread when she calls instead of the normal, you know, pure ineffable joy you would feel. You know your Mom -- maybe you can think of something she'll respond to even better. Humor can also rescue almost anything -- e.g., pick up the phone and say "WAIT! Before you say a word, is this a computer conversation, or a mother-son conversation? Because in computer land today I am grinding their bones to make my bread -- but if this is family land I might be able to sit down for a bit and chat".
So many people either think good communication is easy (look, I'm talking!) or it's some kind of on/off thing. So either you're not communicating (and just doing whatever someone asks however much it sucks) or you're "communicating" and standing up for yourself by telling them to f*ck off. Folks, communication is an art. It takes a lot of intelligence and practice to do well, but every little improvement you make really pays off.
[Sorry for the preaching... so many of the replies around this kind of question bug me, though, to say nothing of the responses we always see when anyone has any conflict with company management!]
BUT:
It's your job. Either you can do it or you can't do it. Call this a troll if you want, but there's really no bones about this.
1. Keep them on hold for a few hours at $5/minute.
2. Answer the phone, listen to the complaint, say "Sorry that's a hardware issue", hang up.
3. Repeat as necessary.
A very cynical way of looking at things:
This 'rick has found a tech support stooge, you. He has some descent social skills and knows that if you think he's a friend or likable he will get what he wants without having to pay for it.
Not necessarily what I think, just one way of looking at the relationship.
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
The CE walks up to the maintenance panel, toggles the switches for a while, and keys in a program in hex. He presses a button, and the printer starts chugging out paper covered with "Something Something Something..."
Slashdot entertains. Windows pays the mortgage.
Aside from not telling us the whole story about this end-user; who you apparently for whatever reason can't simply not answer their emails but yet can't simply tell them that you're short on time... it sounds like you need to worry about the rest of your life rather than your problematic end-user. Maybe you need to reprioritize and simplify. Or maybe you should just give yourself a vacation.
Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.
I to am currently going through the process of weaning my family from free tech support from me. The final straw was when I installed a 2nd hard drive on my parents computer, only to find out that not only did they not know how to use it, they struggled with the whole "folders" concepts.
Here are some things I've found helpful to stop or at least slow down the calls. I think you will find these easier to do then the "cold turkey" methods some people have suggested:
I know these seem underhanded and sneaky, but when they do ask questions now I know they have at least tried. And if I can't give them an answer right away, instead of trying to get me to spend hours on research they find it easier to fork out the bucks for professional help.
Fun facts: My dad has used a computer for 15 years. Last year he learned what scroll bars are for. My mom bought a new scanner because hers "broke." I reinstalled the drivers and it worked great. Free scanner for me, Yea! My dad buys a new printer ever year because the previous one "breaks." I'm thinking of starting a used printer store. My brother bought a new laptop because his old one "had sound and video problems." A reinstallation of Windows and it works great. My dad also doesn't understand "folders." I installed a 160 GB hard drive in his computer. It sits their empty because he doesn't know how to save his work to it.
Why don't you just outsource support to India for $2 an hour like every other company is doing?
-Moduz
Look, I get it about being overcommitted.
I don't get how you got into this in the first place. You sell handbuilt systems, but you provide free support for people who don't have your systems. As a friend, apparently, but these people aren't friends. I've got friends too - I fix their computers - and when I had deaths in the family, they put me up and took care of me, and didn't ask me to fix their computers.
The way to get yourself out of this situation is always to give them someone else to call. There's a million nice ways to do it. In this case maybe you say, I'll give you a hand when I have time, but this week's bad and next week doesn't look good either. If you want it done quick, a buddy of mine had a good experience with the help guys at X store, if you need it done quickly, give them a call - but let me know how it goes, eh?
Recently I had to duck out of a contract job after an introductory meeting because I didn't like the smell of the job. Sounded like too much work and not enough money, and not interesting. So I asked around and got two names of friends who were hungry (so I was doing them a favor) and contacted the contractee - they didn't like those guys, some of the best people I know (better, for this job, than me). So I said I'd keep asking around, but I'm not going to bother. They can't tell quality when they see it, which means they'll be a problem customer. I've kept a good odor, though, and if I do get hungry, I can come back to them.
And what exactly about my comment did you find homophobic? I pointed out the "he" and "him" and said it would prompt a different ask slashdot. The only thing offensive about my comment is your reply.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
with the attitude like that no wonder there are outsourcing the customer service oversea...
You don't have permission to access /gpa/images/lb/lb43-27.jpg on this server.
- doctea
After you've riddled their computer with viruses, wiped their crucial data and flooded their keyboard in sugary coffee they'll never want you back.
I think your problem is shared by all working with computers. I have often discussed this very issue with a friend, what he does (he is a unix admin) is to tell the users that he is not very in to Windows (although he is), and that their guess is as good as his. I am, however, into windows as well as unix, so when people ask me, i generally speak to them in BOFH style, an example: User: "How do i make a boot disc for windows 98?" Me : "Well, if you want to make a boot disc, you have to consider what you will be using it for, if i will be used to install windows98, you will have to setuo some dos drivers for the cdrom/dvd, as dos does not natively support the full IDE specification. This is because MSDOS, as i imagine you will choose for your boot disc?, is really based on the old IBM dos, which was invented way before such drives were even thought of. Now; to make your boot disc bootable, you will have to install the basic boot-up files, command.com etc. but you will also have to format the disc in the right format................" (go on and on and on like this)... This has two effects on people; 1.) They realise, that they might as well ask someone else, as they understand as much of what you just said, as they would, had you said it in Japaneese. 2.) When they ask someone else, who then gives them a much shorter answer, they will be pestering them instead. This way, you get to keep both your relationship with theese people, and as a tasy sidedish, get to appear as a "Guru" type (if you like being perceived as one)
If life is merely a joke, the question still remains: for whose amusement?
Now shut the fuck up and run adaware for your parents, you lazy, ungrateful bastard.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
Again, shut the fuck up and run adaware.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent