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Is A Bad Attitude Damaging The IT Profession?
dtienes writes "Why does IT get a free pass to insult users? Slamming customers isn't acceptable in any other profession; doctors don't call their patients "meatbags" — at least, not publicly. But IT professionals think nothing of wearing their scorn on their sleeves (or at least their chests — just check out ThinkGeek). There's more at stake here than just a few hard feelings. IT may be seriously damaging the credibility of the profession. See the essay I'm An Idiot (And Other Lessons From The IT Department) for a former IT professional turned user's take on insults, attitudes and ethics.
(Full disclosure: The submitter is also the author.)"
Nothing for you to see here, please move along
See, it's attitudes like that....
The real litigious bastards...
Insulting the "client" isn't constrained to the IT market, it may be more visible to /.ers, but seemingly many
"professionals" think an attributes of being a professional
include being an unmitigated asswipe to those less knowledgeable.
My personal experience with over 25 years now in IT is that many times the asswipe-ness of an IT professional is inversely proportional to what they know and how well they know it. While I've known some brilliant IT staff who were grumpy, most of the anointed geniuses-with-attitude were self anointed, and less than geniuses (doesn't mean they didn't know anything, just that the attitude was a convenient and easy facade to hide behind).
The insulting IT staff were the ones I avoided -- mostly their expertise, as it were, was a diminished return in being held hostage by "their schedule", and their attitude. I'd much rather find assistance with a less competent person who is self aware and interested in helping find a solution if they don't know it themselves.
Admittedly there is a consumer demographic cowed by the angry IT support, and they probably accept and suffer more insult than they deserve. But, in the long run, I think any IT staff member who glories in his or her rancor and animus with the client grossly underestimates the long term impact on their reputation and career. If you think customers don't talk... and consider alternatives when they present, think again. (I long since have avoided Circuit City for not only rude treatment and condescension, but that kind of treatment coupled with virtual incompetence on that for which they condescended..., literally thousands of my dollars have gone elsewhere solely on "rude behavior" by "professionals".)
It pays to be nice.
(And, regardless of the sans-clue clientèle's, there are rarely circumstances that warrant abuse of the customer.... )
Of course it is. And companies are starting to get wise to the fact that things could be better - when applying for jobs after college, not one but two of the interviews I had were filling spots of IT admins who'd been fired for this kinda crap. And the interviews were all questions like "What do you think of users who know absolutely nothing about computers?"
ACs are modded -6. I don't read you, I don't mod you, I don't see you. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.
Well, it's a two way street. Most "IT" folks, are treated as nothing more than cable-pullers, and server-rebooters, driver-installers, and the like.
Pay IT people for what they are worth (IF they are worth it), and watch the attitude improve.
Treat IT people like people, not and robotic cable-pullers, server-rebooters, and troubleshooters, and again, the attitude improves. There is a reason why I now have an Engineering Degree, and not a computer-science degree, and went from "IT" to "Engineering Services"..
GROLIES: Guardian[1] Reader Of Low Intelligence in Ethnic Skirt
LOBNH: Lights On But Nobody Home
CNS-QNS: Central Nervous System - Quantity Not Sufficient
[1] UK left wing newspaper
Sure, our profession and hte durrounding culture allows for the type of user tratement the author describes.
But don't think for a minute that IT folks don't need ethics. We often get to see data first hand that lawyers need subpoenas to obtain.
One can laugh at their user's technical abilities all they want, but the minute you talk about their data or the inside of their business, the IT career is over. As is the option for any other meaningful career.
Huh?
for a comment from twitter
Monstar L
One thing IT professionals should always keep in mind is that someone may be ignorant without being stupid. I've seen too often people make this confusion. Also one should never confuse "obvious" with "usual". Just because we are used to doing things in a certain way it doesn't mean newbies should be able to guess how to do it by themselves.
You're Welcome!
What, all doctors aren't like House?
People think Microsoft is the answer. Microsoft is just the question, "No" is the answer.
some cheese with that whine?
Cry me a fscking river you hypocrite - when you start paying me like a lawyer or a doctor and ask for an appointment before barging into my office because YOU luser broke something, that's when I'll start treating you with the respect you expect from professionals.
Until then, you get a hearty RTFM + STFU, n00b.
Global warming is a cube.
IT can be a fairly arrogant profession, but I think this is a more common occurrence in technical fields than we might originally guess. The big driver, from what I've seen and heard, is the visibility of IT, and its importance to everyday life. The fact that many people are so perilously inept at operating and managing an increasingly core life staple prompts much of the snobby behavior.
Perhaps rampant irresponsibility is not quite as visible or dominant in other fields. For instance, imagine if a shocking percentage of the population drove their cars without any thought to changing their oil, airing their tires, or even filling their tank with gas. We would probably have a community of technicians and knowledgeable people ridiculing and advising these irresponsible "users."
IT has been an odd case, as normally the expense of adopting a new, non-user-friendly technology is prohibitive for people not prepared to maintain and operate the equipment. But, the drastic adoption and commoditization of IT has led this to be out of balance, with people trying to treat everything as a black box when at least comprehending the nuts and bolts is still essential for responsible use.
Customers also insult staffmembers or for that matter, anyone in the proximity, without restraint, for issues that are not directly their fault.
Insulting is the problem, not IT, nor the user.
--------
* Sigh *
I'm not saying that there aren't any genuine jerks out there in the IT industry, but sometimes I think clients are imagining a bad or condescending attitude. There have been many times where all I'm trying to do is explain to the user what went wrong, and what I was going to do to try to fix it, and they thought I was talking down to them just because I was using words like "motherboard."
Of course I would do plenty of customer trash talking in the repair room, but never in front of them.
... with idiots. Other professions have made a point of being inherent dishonest (markedroids, banking, management). It is refreshing to work in a profession where there is some honesty left.
Most people who flock to IT support are technophiles. Technophiles like technology, not people. Dot boom brought many more people into the tech industry - that really had no apptitude but were there for the boom - and these people really don't care but are trapped in IT - so you have misanthropes and people who hate their jobs in IT. Nuff said?
/\/\icro/\/\uncher
As with any shiny new "unique" ability, people of all professions regard themselves as doing something no-one else can. Truth is, except for probably some high math and sciences, most people could do each other's job (after training or college) with varying degrees of success. What makes you special is the fact you spent the time and tears studying one area vs another.
I found the jibbing and trash talk was more prevalent among younger IT people. It's fun for a while until you find out you really don't know that much in the first place. Eventually it no longer matters; you've got better things to do like refine your department's piss-poor communication skills and learn how to network - all in order to get projects accomplished and inform people what the actual problems are.
It all boils down to a level of maturity, and for the most part that comes with age and time no matter what the profession.
Two of the three people I've ever had to fire in my 25-year carreer
were BOFHs. They were both replaced with talented, socially well-balanced
guys who treated users like customers and actually enjoyed finding
solutions to problems that were right both for the user and for the IT department.
I don't think it's the bad attitude of some IT people that's doing the damage,
it's management toleration of that attitude. Plenty of good people out there
if you go looking.
Have you tried turning it off and on again?
I'm more than familiar with some perceived stereotypical behavior in some IT people. Some of my least favorite attitudes are those displayed when the "IT Pro" is protecting his ignorance. Gone are the days, I think, when IT people were looked upon as techno-god figures... and feared as such.
I'm an IT manager and I'm all about helping business work better through IT. Some of my favorite endorsements are along the lines of "you don't make me feel stupid." What would be the point in that? I don't do what they do... which is most often making money for the company. In my job, I spend the company's money, so I do my best to make sure they feel they are getting their money's worth.
But back to the topic of jackasses: I hate people who hide their ignorance and attempt to put up some sort of "I won't share what I know" front as if he were the exclusive container of knowledge. Further, I hate it when people attempt to "secure their jobs" through obfuscation and indirection of information. In my opinion, the latter complaint amounts to malpractice. And I have a close friend who is presently suffering the worst of all scenarios -- the knows less than nothing boss who got where he is because he lies on his resume. (This moron thinks that if you block port 80 on the firewall that users will not be able to surf the web!!)
I see these offenders as a dying breed, fortunately... but they aren't dying fast enough.
Doctors have always insulted their patients in their notes .
More detailed list here .
The only difference between the average emergency room doctor's attitude to some of their patients and the cliched sysadmin's hatred of 'lusers' is the fact that doctors wear shirts and ties.
It has become appallingly obvious that our technology has exceeded our humanity. --Albert Einstein
Users have just as much contempt for IT as IT has comtempt for the user.
Nevertheless, IT continue to solve the user's issues, because of their professional attitude.
What I tend to dislike is the fact that a user with 3 computers at home, running their own local network, with shared Internet access and wireless connectivity to their laptop, DHCP, DNS, network printing etc... all of a sudden turns into a blatant IT fool the minute that they walk into the office. Just because there is an IT department they continue to be high maintenance, refuse to acknowledge problems and generally make things worse.
Then again, there's the other type, the genuine clueless user who thinks that they know what they're doing, but doesn't - you know the type, the ones you never should have given local administrative privileges on their own machines.
In my opinion the way to discourage this divide in your company it to have the IT department take each of the other departments out for lunch, say once a month - the relaxed environment in the absence of IT equipment and their problems aids the communication between the departments and generates an understanding of what IT is actually doing (Similarly IT get an understanding of what Finance, Sales, Marketing etc... do for the company as well).
For an example of slamming stupid users of other products, one need only check the Darwin Awards. And no, this isn't the case of a doctor laughing at someone because they have cancer -- what a ridiculous comparison. People get sick through no fault of their own, but when people screw up their computers, whether they meant to or not, it is their fault. The software design does play into this and I agree that software can be better designed to handle different kinds of users.
The author compares it to a vehicle where the brake/gas pedals switch on you. And if only software were so simple! Computers can do so many things and the software reflects that complexity... it's more like somebody who hasn't had any training sitting down in the cockpit of a 747 and trying to fly. You don't think actual trained pilots would laugh at the hilarity that ensued?
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
IT workers keep the users ignorant. Then make fun of them for being ignorant.
Power trip.
They left out GOMER: Get Out of My Emergency Room.
Perhaps this is more of a US term. It refers to people who show up to the ER for relatively trivial stuff because they can't be bothered to actually make an appointment. Most are on public assistance and aren't going to pay for it anyway so they don't give a s*** about abusing the system.
~~~~~~~
"You are not remembered for doing what is expected of you." - Atul Chitnis
The character Dr. House acts all rough and tough, but he will risk his medical license, and even his freedom, for the good of his patients. He is exceptional smart, and he is always right.
Pure crap, in the real world. Real doctors are interested in their investments, and covering their asses. Very often, lay-people are better at diagnosing medical problems. Real doctors see themselves as too busy, and too important, to worry about the problems of bothersome nobodies (you and me). The one area where House is like a real doctor is arrogance - only with House, the arrogance is justified.
Same deal with TV lawyers. Real lawyers don't give a damn about their clients. And real lawyers are usually not very smart.
I heard a saying one time. I don't know the origins:
"Accounts departments love IT Departments. For before there was IT, everyone hated Accounts. But now everyone hates the IT Dept."
This seems to hold some truth from my experience.
In post Patriot Act America, the library books scan you.
Certainly IT isn't the only customer focussed industry where this happens, it's an extremely naive viewpoint to suggest that is the case. I can think of countless call centres for things such as gas, phones and so forth where I've been treated by people with abysmal attitudes.
As to why it happens at all, I think the reasons are rather varied.
You have people who are forced into using IT because everyone needs to use it for their job nowadays, only some people don't want to so they purposely make moan and make out the situation is worse than it is just to satisfy their own technophobic paranoia - people like this are extremely frustrating to work with.
Then there are people who treat IT workers as their own personal slaves, requests such as "change my printer cartridge too" - things that frankly, even a monkey could be trained to do, this type of thing is completely demoralising. If you had a mechanic out to look at your car, what do you think their reaction would be if you turned round and say "Oh go and fill it up with gas for me too".
There's the people who simply ask too much, most IT departments are staffed okay for looking after the business but there are those that seem to feel that the IT staff should deal with the home too. We've currently got a situation where we're staffed fine to run a secure, locked down network but our company has decided to push homeworking - this means people are wanting to setup home broadband on their laptop, this leaves us with a choice between having to visit each and every persons home - where two technicians have to do the visit, because one person can't go because of the danger of some pathetic low-life claiming the technician tried to rape them, steal from their house or whatever or alternatively we can remove the security settings so that the users can setup their home broadband on their laptops themselves. Again, this is a hopeless scenario because we then have to spend day in day out clearing spyware, viruses, finding space on their laptop for their work after their kids have installed Quake 8 or whatever on it.
There's plenty more reasons, but it seems more generally that IT has an identity crisis - users aren't entirely sure what we actually do, where the line is drawn as to what a user issue is and what an IT worker issue is. Do we fix printers? probably, do we fix photocopiers? probably not, what if we have a multi-function printer/photocopier? What about telephones, if it's VOIP we most likely deal with it, but if it's a typical old fashioned Nortel or whatever system then there's likely a phone technician to deal with it. Now, I'm personally willing to have a go at fixing anything if there's a real need, but I don't like whiping the asses of lazy people who can't be bothered to change a printer cartridge and secondly, I simply don't have time to do absolutely everything. The issue is lack of well defines roles for most IT people and also hence lack of definition for users as to what they should and shouldn't expect from their IT department.
"Users are stupid and that needs to be the starting point for software developers." I read their trade magazines: "No matter how hard we pray...every network is at one time or other exposed to the ultimate technology risk: users."
... no, it makes the 'aaah' sound, see now? Good, have a cookie."
People working in offices should have a modicum of training with a computer. If a person had terrible spelling in the oldendays (before spellcheck was prevalent), they would probably be fired. IT people like myself (at my old job) having to go around and teach the most basic of tasks to people who should know a thing or two is extremely frustrating.
In the modern business world, being computer illiterate is like not knowing how to read. Imagine 'grammar' techs going around saying "now what does sound the 'A' make?
Some things I don't mind doing, like when windows bugs out and the printer gets deselected, I'll happily mutter "you know, windows should be a little robust, this kind of thing shouldn't happen, we should switch to macs" while I'm fixing the box and me and the user can find some common ground to grouse about. Other things, like how to change the margins in a Word document (which people forget sometimes twice a day) really pushed the limits of my patience.
The same goes for software development. I developed my own CMS recently. 99% of it was just tweaking the interface to make it more and more usable--not having too many options on a single page so as to not confuse people--that sort of thing. UI is a huge pain to deal with. I ended up just having layers of complexity so I could bring the learning curve to zero. Writing the 'help' pages was so tedious and interminable I nearly gave up after I wrote in "Enter domain here, click here for more information on domains." Is it so much to ask that a person running their own website who uses my CMS should know what a domain is? After working technical support for so long, I realize that yes, yes it is. The only hope you have in UI development is to dump as much user-friendliness in there as possible and pray that they can figure the rest out on their own.
This example pretty much says it all: I got an e-mail from a person using my CMS which read something like, "How do I get this thing started? I double clicked on the 'index.php' and it just opened a notepad with a whole bunch of gibberish [...] "
It's not always the IT guy's fault he's pissed off.
Latewire
...who the hell blames 'overambitious deadlines, changing requirements, and design compromises' on users? Everyone I've ever met blames them, quite rightly, on management. Or in companies developing applications to sale, on marketing.
I can just see it now:
'Bob, we've got to ship Thursday.'
'What? We haven't tracked down that crash-during-export bug! Damn users!'
*blank stare*
'Um, Bob? What users? No one's using the program yet, it hasn't shipped.'
'Oh, right. Damn marketing for promising random ship-dates without consulting with us!'
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
When it comes to IT it is the god given right of a user to be stupid. It is the administrators or developers fault that something went wrong. There is no need for a IT user to read manuals or even heed advices. Whatever happens: Not my fault, I had no intention to study computer science. The idiot admin/developer made it too complicated.
With this widely spread attitude I can understand why users are scorned. It still might be wrong (only in a sense that it might hurt revenue), but it is understandable.
I noticed this a lot at my job on a help desk. Re-route the ticket to the IT department responsible for the problem and the customer doesn't get a response for days, weeks, months, and, on a few occasions, years. The Help Desk gets the blame from the customer when this happens. A lot of the backend IT people have no customer relationship skills whatsoever because they're not required to deal with people outside of their department and there's always something more important going on (at one company, it was Diablo 2).
It's not a bad attitude, it's just a different set of values.
Personally I will outright go "you're being stupid, THINK" to someone, but I wouldn't go "oh that's okay, every body forgets which mouse button to click and can't find the little X in the corner you've used a hundred times before". Some might think I have an attitude problem for it, but personally I see it as different values. Geeks (who are drawn to IT) value the truth and no sugar coatings involved, 'normal' people are the opposit.
So why we may upset people or say the "wrong" thing, to us we're not having an attitude problem, we're just acting how we'd like everyone to act.
I like muppets.
It is usually IT wannabees who think they are well trained in the IT field, for the simple fact they have a "certification", that end up calling the users idiots. They are frightened by the fact that they are barely capable of understanding the basics of their jobs and are one step from the unemployment line. The older, far more wise and seasoned professionals usually don't call the end users idots, they just refer to the junior admin staff as idots.
When users who don't understand the thing they are using take out their frustration on you, it is a natural response to return said frustration back on the object that scorns you. This isn't a problem with IT but with IT education of end users. If end users understood what they used a bit better and become a bit less technophobic/xenophobic (and this will happen with time just as with any introduction of new technology), this too will go away. There I have summed it up without a book and saved you all a trip to Barnes and Noble.
This is my sig. There are many like it but this one is mine.
It isn't really fair to compare IT professionals to doctors. I mean, doctors don't go around telling people they're stupid because they got sick because people usually can't help it. In IT however, that's usually not the case. If you want a real analogy, try going to the dentist complaining of teeth rotting and then explain to him that you never saw the need to actually brush them once or twice a day.
Now, I'm not excusing bad behaviour towards users, but merely pointing out the source of the problem. A problem that doesn't exist way as much as in other professions. People usually take care of things, they exercise, they eat healthy, they maintain their house, their car, their garden, they take out insurance, they watch both ways when they cross the street. But the second they sit themselves down in front of a computer, things get real ugly, real fast. And once they do, they come to us, the dentists, complaining of a toothache but upon further inquiry, turns out they never bothered to brush. So until the users start taking an interest in the welfare of their systems as much they do with other aspects of their life, they are always going to be the subject of scorn and ridicule, and a lot of the time, they are quite deserving.
On a brighter note, it's my own personal experience that people are in fact learning how to take care of their systems more and more. Personally, I do think that a lot of the perceived ignorance is simply just that, perceived. Things change, and as they change, so will the jokes.
Comparing IT with medicine isn't a good comparison. You didn't buy your life from a doctor.
As for why IT staff don't always respect their customers, try working in support. Customers threaten you, provide you with no information, blame you for everything.
The day a user figures out what I mean when I say that they are experiencing an ID-10T error is the day I'll stop insulting them. Who needs IT anyways, right? Its not like end users just don't download that anti-everything-ware in that ad anyway.
How about when the PHB, for the umpteemed time, drags and drops the C:\Progr~1\Excel folder into the the trash can and thinks your function is to listen to a tantrum.
davecb5620@gmail.com
Generally the lusers are the customers, and why we have jobs, That being said I keep a wide array of LARTs nearby at all times. The most useful one so far has been a nice heavy spanner that came with a rack.
Futures traders are notorious for being assholes to get what they want. Bankers have a reputation, occasionally well earned, of looking down on their customers. Professional athletes don't care about their image. In most of the above professions, if you're not rewarded for this behavior indirectly (by not being criticized as "soft" and therefore getting paid more), acting like an ass doesn't get you fired. As for burger flippers, flight attendants and Disney employees; tough luck. Acting like an ass gets you fired, immediately. As to where IT fits, it depends entirely on the existing culture of your organization. If everyone acts like an ass, you'll probably do fine acting like an ass. But choosing not to is generally better no matter what.
-Rob
Biblical fiscal responsibility
Amen. I'd rather go to House 10 times, and have him mock and berate me nine of them and find some obscure thing wrong with me the tenth, than got to a normal doctor and have him not pay attention.
OTOH, doctors like House probably don't actually exist.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
Given a sufficiently large group of people, some of them will be wankers.
Wah! Some IT people are nasty! Yeah, isn't humanity a horrible thing? Ever met an unpleasant doctor, lawyer, bus driver, teacher, plumber? But let's forget about reality and hurl some ill-considered generalisations instead.
Or better yet, let's not. I've worked in IT for ten years or so and the vast majority of my colleagues have been professionals who behave...well, professionally. Some users are easier to interact with than others; a particularly incalcitrant customer will provoke the odd grumble back in the IT office. A member of staff who publically insults/intmidates/ridicules/humiliates a user should, and usually will, get a smack from the management stick.
Of course attitude problems will sometimes arise and fail to be corrected, and the appropriate manager should be bludgeoned with the aforementioned stick. More often, IT staff will work with their user base to achieve a mutually satisfactory goal. Painting the entire industry as a bunch of ill-bred sociopaths is wrong, stupid and insulting.
Typical fucking user.
I my experience, IT departments are often viewed by the business as pure red-ink. An annoying drain on their income that, because they often don't understand technology, know that they need but don't know why. IT deparments, in traditional businesses, don't directly add income. And because of that, they are expected to do the impossible at the snap of a finger, whenever the business asks for it. The IT group can start getting pushed around by "clueless users", and this can lead to a somewhat adversarial relationship within the company, with negative reactions from your IT staff.
I think this is slowly starting to change, as technology becomes more integrated into business, and executive types are starting to see the benefits of technology to their bottom line. You'll always have the Comic-book-guy type geek who feels disdain for the lower forms of life he is forced to deal with. But that's hardly limited to IT. Look at how doctors often treat nurses, or lawyers treat paralegals.
They are paid less than most professionals in the white-collar world, they must routinely adapt to clueless and often unimplementable (or perilous) edicts from upper management, and they are expected to solve all problems (most of which are you must admit created by users themselves, often as the result of ignoring previous IT advice) instantly, or heads will roll, people will be upset, the entire company grinds to a halt. At the same time, computing and networking resources are often limited and IT has the role of actually trying to manage access to these in such a way that users and departments are satisfied without upsetting management or having budgetary or downtime issues.
In short, it's one of the more political jobs inside most corporations, has to answer to nearly everyone, has more immediate responsibility for ongoing operations that most anyone, and yet is typically seen as not truly white collar--and thus doesn't enjoy quite the same level of respect or pay as the bunch doctors, editors, stockbrokers, or whomever else happens to be around.
It's basically a tough job and it's easy to see how IT professionals might develop a short fuse. In my experience (and having worked in IT years ago) it's not so much a bad attitude as a very limited (often for very pragmatic reasons) tolerance for bullshit, cowboyism, or the failure of employees to take responsibility for themselves and the damage they can cause to things.
STOP . AMERICA . NOW
I'd sacrifice application interoperability for security any day.
It's called Windows Vista. Not only is spplication interoperability is being sacrificed, so is the user interface. Enjoy!
There are legitimate reasons to get angry at users who a) should have known better and b) cause serious damage by being reckless with powerful machines. If you are woken up and taken away from your family at 4am you might feel like giving the responsible person some firm education.
Once I was developing something for Zaurus and created an Ethernet bridge between its USB interface and corporate intranet so that I could connect from the device to other machines. Well, it turns out that Zaurus runs DHCP server by default to configure the USB interface on the host. It then proceeded to give bogus IP addresses to all the machines in the building. I sure appreciated the sense of humor of the IT person who had to probe all the routers to find out the socket to which socket the DHCP server was connected.
ask BOFH
I don't think that the doctor comparison is very balanced. Doctors save people's lives for a living. There's a large difference between maintaining networks and saving people's lives. And you'd be surprised how many doctors talk about their patients. In lines of work like that, where you are required to deal with death on a regular basis, dark humor at the expense of others is very common. This article is interesting, I suppose, but very flawed in its logic.
Too many users are proud of their ignorance of technology. You don't see patients being proud of their ignorance what's going on with their body. So doctors feel venerated and act as such. Even plumbers know that their work is appreciated. Since technology works best when it works invisibly, IP workers are often met with the attitude of "what the f**k is wrong with you guys... oh, never mind... don't want to know.. just fix the damn thing". So they get trained to treat users as willful ignoramuses. That's just the nature of environment in which they work. I think it used to be better when computers had to be maintained MORE often. Their maintenance was seen as a noraml think and those who performed were seen as saving the day. So there was mutual respect.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
... down and not across!
It's generally thought to be part of the reason why so few female schools students do not apply to study computer science at university ("why would I want to spend my career working in a culture like that?").
More recently I've noticed a worrying trend -- a lack of social skills has become an expected trait for programmers by a few employers (whereas most employers value social and communication skills very highly). I have recently seen job adverts in the UK that have included lines such as "the sort of person we are looking for is a geek. You probably prefer to relate to computers and have very few friends". If even a few employers are actively reinforcing the all-too-common stereotype, then that cannot be healthy for the industry.
It's a matter of time. If you or someone you love has a set of obscure symptoms, you have a lot of time to do research as to what it could be. A Dr. needs to keep seeing a patient every hour or two to make a profit.
-b.
I don't understand where anyone got the idea that it was okay to be an ass to any client - even those who can't comprehend the work you do.
Try imagining that scenario between a Doctor and a patient. Does it feel any better? No. It creates confusion and mistrust.
Our jobs depend on us being able to make one part of the system work within a larger unit called "the business" If the client/userbase finds an IT resource that acts nicely and says please and thank-you, then you might one day kiss your job good-bye because at some point it will _seem_ like that person does a better job, even if they actually don't.
I treat my people with the respect they deserve. I don't always understand their jobs, and they sometimes wonder aloud what a genius I am. I just make an analogy comparing our two professions and point out the similarities. I find myself discovering just how much talent is required for what may seem like paper-pushing jobs. I just do something that requires a specific skill. When they see that it makes them much confortable with IT issues and how to handle them. Dumb requests are just as hard to stomach by everyone.
The IT undustry (management) is all over the new "concept" of IT being part of the "business". That may seem like a semantic shift to some, but it marks a specific change in how IT is looked at. It is now being pulled back in to the business, and requires that IT staff often know how their work impacts the users and vice versa. Just like any business component should. If you're still treating your users as sheep when that happens just because they can't understadn your work, you'll just look like the breat big asshole you likely are.
There are just as many idiots within IT as without it.
JB
Odd but I kindo of wish I worked in the parallel universe described in the article. In most of the jobs I have worked the IT staff spends the entire day recieving insults and abuse from the president down to the file clerks only donning our "I See Dumb People" after work when we go to drink beer and talk about whatever stupid thing some Luser did that led to their tirade against the IT worker.
Some of my favorites were the deparment director who would have one of us in her office at least twice a day because outlook wouldnt work, it was always the same problem she would have 15-16 instances open at once from just continually clicking from the time the desktop was visible,, but of course that was our fault, her computer just wasnt fast enough for her work habits. Or how about the presidents personal assistant who treated web surfing and spyware like some twisted game of pokemon "gotta catch em all" then whined to the president about how her computer never worked right. And finally, the receptionist who would open any attachment and would in fact call the IT staff to her desk if the latest joke email or urban myth making the rounds didnt open properly.
Over the course of my employment history I have been with only one company where the IT staff actually was respected..in fact they were revered. IT staff was friendly, and bent over backwards to keep everyone happy, mistakes were forgiven but instructions were given to prevent them from happening again, users felt free to ask questions and in turn the IT staff asked questions to determine what requirements were needed and what could be improved.
There have been great strides to reduce the average IT position to equal that of the mailroom clerk but its obvious as time goes on you need us more, not less. Respect has to be earned, but its a two way street, treat us like crap all day and yep after hours we're going to discuss how stupid you are. Treat us well and more likely we will be talking about how proud we were that you figured out such and such...
I confess I have fallen into this mindset, sometimes getting myself into trouble. The problem for me is that the answers being sought sometimes seem so obvious, and in fact some other users see them as obvious, those that don't, well I often hope that the jolt of being teased will get them to look at things a little more carefully rather than just assuming they cannot do it. I try to do it with a smile, but that does not always come accross, and in fact I have had to apologized more than once, sometimes through gritted teeth.
Hanging out with people in both the med. and legal profession I would say it is not limited to IT either.
A lawyer friend clued me in on how they sometimes have to deal with barely functional people, family law seems to be the worst.
A friend who works in an emergency room is constantly astonished at human stupidity. And here's some advice, if you are hurt DO NOT piss off the people who can stick needles in you arms, insert catheters into your ureathra or stuff tubes down your throat. That's just common sense.
Be involved in your care (they are people too and make mistakes, so watch them carefully), but do not be insulting or combatative. Or you might find a couple of burly cops holding you down while they stap you to the bed.
There really isn't much an IT person can do that matches what a medical person can do with a difficult patient.
BTW, I love House. My favorite TV asshole.
That being said, I find myself most short tempered with IT people. I expect them to know better. Users, I like to talk to to try to understand thier problems and give them some guidance. I can forgive them for not knowing things as it is not thier job.
IT people who expect to be led by the hand, are lazy, lack initiative, lack ownership of thier own skills development or are just plain stupid I cannot stand. The faster the IT field has grown the worse it has become as the standards were lowered. This attitude is a sure sign I need to get out.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
I don't know about the rest of them, but my job description doesn't actually include hand-holding someone through computer use.
I just do that because I want my coworkers to get their jobs done well, so I do it, and I don't mind - especially if they learn something (I've got a teacher inclination). My ability with computers stems from the fact that I try to learn as much as I can about everything that I can. That's part of it.
The reason I get upset is the implicit lack of respect. Knowing how to use a computer is like learning how to drive: it's an expected part of society. You don't ask your mechanic how to drive, but people are regularly asking IT people how to use their computers. Asking the mechanic to do something like that would be disrespectful - he's not responsible for your ability to drive. It doesn't take a tradesman with a vast knowledge in his field to do it. Most five year olds can grasp basic computer operation.
If you work in a job where people didn't treat what you do with respect, how would you feel about them? It takes more patience than many people have, and they can't keep their frustrations to themselves.
Of course, if your actual job is teaching people how to use computers I could understand that you might feel differently about it, but I don't think that condition applies to most IT people.
Most jobs are to do one of these things:
1) Make computers do something they haven't done before.
2) Make computers do something that they used to do but don't do anymore.
3) Figure out the cause of condition #2.
Only a very small number of IT professionals are actually responsible for showing the users how to use their own computers, but this comes up a lot in the other jobs, and makes some of us a little testy.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
This is just a symptom of the systems we're putting in place. They're over complex and as a result unreliable, expensive and difficult to maintain, requiring relatively menial maintenance which shouldn't really be the responsibility of the user.
Users should simply be able to sit down at a system, log in and have all of the applications they need (and no more) available at the touch of a button. They should be unable to break the system, or otherwise infect it with spyware or viruses. And it should work that way day in, day out without fail.
Everyone would be happy. The users would have a consistent, easy to use and reliable system which means they wouldn't have to call IT three times a day. IT would be able to add value to the business, increase business productivity instead of having to fight fires or re-train users constantly.
Really this is down to poor IT leadership.
Deleted
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I think part of the problem is that in the IT world, the organizational structure creates a conflict of interest for IT professionals: the same people who are responsible for helping users and providing services are also responsible for security. Everywhere else in the corporate world those two jobs are separated. For good reason: the people who provide services should have only the benefit of the user/customer in mind, while the security people need to be able to get nast when bad things happen.
1 The software industry makes money by forcing regular upgrades, locking in its customers and delivering poor products.
2 Self-consolidating IT managers who lack competence and do no research buy the poor products.
3 Low pay cultivates the worst attitudes for staff assigned to support the poor products.
4 Lack of training for people who have to use the poor products causes them to call the Help Desk for help with the poor products.
Repeat as many times as necessary to populate this imaginary world with a lexicon of derogatory terms.
If you can't figure out how to do it, try defragging your monitor, Luser!
Rich And Stupid is not so bad as Working For Rich And Stupid.
Users are stupid!
[Foot icon here]
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
To quote the article "And you can't fake an email address. No way."
Dude, so that email from Nigeria|The Queen|Bill Gates|my bank was real?
You have a serious misconception about email. The from line is just a header. You can put what you like. The best you can do is to check the received header you can find out what server sent the email. For most spam the country of this server won't even correspond with the address. Putting the from line as a hotmail address is just a ploy to make it more credible (to some).
I don't get too much spam, but I get a phenemonal amount of 'message not delivered emails' from hosts to which spam has been sent with my address in the from line. I wonder what volume of email is just autoreply and vacation and undelivered mail.
Why does IT get a free pass to insult users?
I've never had a free pass to insult users to their faces. As for insulting them behind their back, pretty much everyone regardless of job bitches about their 'users' or customers. If they don't have customers they bitch about their boss.
Well, in my world, if I insult a customer, I get reprimanded or fired. I don't know anyone who does this directly to a client. Behind the scenes? Sure, perhaps. But not to the client's face. That ranks up with other unthinkable actions such as stealing from the company, and I'm not talking post-it notes. Why on earth would anybody want to insult their clientele?
If they've done something that they shouldn't be doing, there is a perfectly acceptable way of enlightening them that doesn't involve berating them. In my experience, most users are perfectly willing and able to learn if you're willing and able to take the time to explain it without an attitude problem.
People in the IT department are very few compared to the size of the company, and there are many people that think they're the only ones in the company, so they get very stressed if the IT people cannot solve their problem because they're mounting a new server and they stress IT people too. No wonder (though it's not the way) that the situation becomes a battlefield. When stressed, people forget that we are only people. I recommend people to take it easy whenever possible and to see the wonderful series "The IT crowd".
I'd just like to say the real threat isn't users who don't know anything; it's users who *think* they know but really don't.
Tech support doesn't mind dealing with people who don't know, but dealing with people who think they know is a real nightmare.
'For we walk by faith, not by sight.' II Corinthians 5:7
someone call this fellow a waaaaambulance, or get them some thicker skin.
Teachers often also describe their students with colourful words, just like BOFH do.
IT isn't really a profession. we don't have an official governing body. we don't have any real responsibility to a governing body (outside our actual governments, of course). anyone can just say "i'm an IT professional", and they are.
until we have a proper governing body (most like the BCS here in Britain or the AMS [?] in Hamerica) we'll continue to have these problems. IT professionals need to have the fear of having their "professional status" revoked before they'll start considering their manner.
Also there's the additional problem that your average IT Professional is usually just a geek that went pro. and geeks are largely awful people with massive chips on their shoulders. myself included.
As an IT professional, most IT professionals that I work with treat users with respect, generally more respect than the users tend to treat the IT professional. Most users seem to think that whatever they ask for can be done completed in a manner of minutes, and they want instant gratification, sometimes not realizing that their requests, or they do know and just don't care, that what they are asking for will require the professional to sacrifice their personal time (usually without compensation) to complete the request. Additionally, all people in general, are a little more rude than they used to be.
Think about the RIAA, the MPAA, etc.... They assume that their customers are thieves and try to foist ever more bizarre schemes on us to inhibit our fair use. If that fails, they plant evidence on the innocent or manufacture evidence to supporttheir claims. If you want to see yet another group of people with bad attitudes, walk into the procurement office of any federal agency. There's one group of people even more despised than the IT office.
From the Article:
Of course being a comic also requires you to be funny, and material like select * from users where clue > 0 isn't funny.
Huh? Why not? I bought that t-shirt for my sister (who is not an IT person, but had to do an SQL course) and she loved it. The teacher of said SQL course did forbid her to wear it on the exam though ;-) That guy who wrote this article has no sense of humour at all...
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
Congratulations for exposing the reason software sucks, why networks are always going down, and why we as a society have allowed for such low standards as Microsoft Anything. I work with the biggest geeks on the planet (NSA) and the key to geek-power is to find like-minded socially-maladapted dolts and gang up on normal people.
poor customer service hurts any profession. that's my answer to the question posed. i'll also add some perspective ( mine, albeit, but please consider ).
i'm a doctor and an IT professional. in both communities, customers are referred to using very insulting terminology. the IT insultatorium gets more press, but i think there are equal levels of cynicism and derogation.
i pose that acceptability of the behaviour might be a function of expectations. in medicine, consumerism is increasing and patients are becoming more informed about health issues, becoming better at achieving and maintaining better health. but fundamentally, there is no expectation by either patient or professional that a patient can accurately self-diagnose. and even less expectation that a patient self-treat.
technology users, however, are expected to self diagnose. why ? because THEY just pressed the button or clicked the icon THEMSELVES ! don't they know what they just did ? didn't they read the instructions ? can't they just undo what they just did ? etc. as well, since the user has the tools ( the computer they used to get into trouble in the first place ) to treat themselves, an IT professional might wonder why they don't just heal themselves, vs patients who might not have a million$ operating suite, xray machines, sterile equipment, medications, etc in their basements.
not saying it's right. but that's what i notice.
this is the conclusion i got :) hahah, lowly fucking sysadmins :)
--exa--
SNL - Nick Burns
Exactly. Don't you have a culture of super-condescending Doctors over there in the US like you do in the UK? That said, the class system is more apparent in the UK and a fair proportion of slashers are probably professionals themselves.
Michael Reed, freelance tech writer.
Early on in the essay he makes a comment about IT insulting it's customers. Well, that's the problem: Users aren't "customers" of IT. The users and IT are all working for a company, and they're both given their own goals, objectives, responsibilities, etc. The IT department goals may be different from the users goals, but no less valid.
IT people don't usually have good communication skills. They always seem to talk all technical and have hard times saying it in non-technical ways.
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Just last week I had two incidents with different, generally solid ISPs that I and a client have business T-1 accounts with. In both cases I was dealing with kids with far bigger gaps in their sysadmin knowledge that I have - and I'm the first to admit that even after doing Internet-related sysadmin for 14 years there's lots I don't know. I didn't so much mind their gaps as the amount of trouble I had to take to convince them that no, they didn't know better than I did, and, yes, the problems were real and within their responsibility to fix. In one case I had to actually walk into the ISP's main office and make a stink to get it fixed; in the other fortunately there was a way to work around their incompetence - and that was with Speakeasy who used to be a very good shop. The outfit I made the stink too, though, I'm now getting respect from ... finally. But the old "We don't care. We don't have to. We're the phone company." attitude has thoroughly infected much of the tech community.
Reporting bugs against Linux distros and free software is also a much more painful process than it was just a few years back. Far too many of the kids involved these days would rather close a bug on a lame excuse than face that there might really be something in the stuff they're maintaining that should be fixed or improved.
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
Because of users who are lazy and refuse to expend a couple units of thinkpower, instead taking the easy approach and dumping their problem onto the computer guy's lap.
This is doubly hard because most professional who I have met actually enjoy helping people and will take on more than would normally be expected -- taking calls while on hold, while hanging around on conference call, while writing that complicated shell script....and then is rewarding by the users unwillingless to cooperate.
Toss on the complete inability of proper estimation of the effort involved and constantly incorrect estimates, even by people who should know better.
Very frustrating. The natural remedy for frustration is to take it out on the cause.
CG: Download this and click that.
IU: Should I save it or run it?
CG: What do you think will allow you to achieve the objective of following instrctions, midgetbrain?
If it actually cost a monetary unit for every minute the user consumed of the computer guys time and attention, thing would be very different.
Here is further theory.
IT people are naturally optimistic, because cynicism would decree that nothing would ever work properly in a computer system -- after all billions of things need to go right every second in order for proper functioning to occur. This should be considered the leading reason why all IT estimates are so way off.
Optimism and Idealism go hand in hand. Users who are perceived as destroying idealism, by producing problems where none ought to exist are the direct cause for additional frustration.
I work in techical support, so I have to know about computers in general. This really pisses the IT-staff off.
My co-worker recently had a headcrash on his computer. Now the noise that comes from a headcrashed harddisk is fairly obvious, so when he wrote a trouble ticket mentioning his harddisk was broken, and requested a new one. Well, the reply was a angry message urging him not to diagnose the problem himself, but to open a new ticket, saying his computer is broken, and requesting IT to have a look.
Hey, wtf? He helps some 30ish customers every day with random computer problems, and IT considers him incapable of diagnosing his own computer.
Other detail is that out computers are locked down with a padlock, and we have no local administrator rights.
When I started I got migranes from the display, because of the bad picture. Nice new flat panel and nice new computer, but a VGA cable. I instantly requested a DVI cable. IT replied by giving me a thicker VGA cable. I had to physically break the padlock to install a card with DVI out, and break the admin password to get the drivers in.
And then the IT-staff wonders why nobody talks to them at corporate parties.
for all the times the users, who used to be the popular kids in school, gave us wedgies and snapped towels at our butts in the locker rooms or beat us up behind the school. Now the jocks are all sales people and managers, and the cheerleaders that dissed us are 'executive assistants' with rug burns on their knees.
Now it is our turn. But they still win in the end, by segregating IT departments into separate buildings from the rest of the business whenever possible, if not keeping them in separate states.
So yes, we are rude and crabby. It keeps us from going all Milton on them. They should be grateful for small favors.
Many people own or use computers.
They can't maintain those computers themselves, and they
frequently have lots of problems with their computers.
These people then ask random IT professional to help
them resolve their computer issue, for free of course.
This is a royal PITA, first because of the sheer number
of such requests, and also because these people
frequently become insulting if one is unable ("I am a Linux
expert. I have no idea whatsoever about Windows"),
or simply unwilling to help them for free.
Offer me a reasonable hourly fee to fix your computer
problem. Then I will be polite. However, if you behave
like a street beggar, you will get treated like I
treat a street beggar.
Thomas
Those with social skills and assholes who think that joke is the pinnacle of wit.
Back when I was in IT, I learned REAL quick that if I want to survive I had to hide my ignorance. Even though I was hired as a C++/SQL programmer (I had very specific and narrow expertise), if I didin't know some esoteric Unix command, scripting, PL/SQL, or whatever, and actually admitted it, I would be berrated by fellow co-workers, looked down upon (because I didn't know everything?), and have my job abilities threatened. So, I learned to shut up and look things up on the web.
The other thing is this asinine norm amoung IT workers that you're not allowed to ask questions until you have studied the problem sufficiently. When I first started working in IT, I would ask questions - lots of them - only to be turned away, yelled at, etc... I didn't see the point in spending days studying a program when the developer could just explain it to/walk through the code with me in a couple of hours. That's not the way to do it. You are required to spend days on end figuring it out and NEVER ask questions.
You can see that attitude here on /.. My God, if you don't know some esoteric feature/bug about whatever, there's plenthy of assholes who are more than willing to flame you. It's nothing here, but at work, when your afraid of them saying shit to your boss - like, he's a fuck-up, it can be very unerving!
Everything above applies to F/OSS developers by the way!
As an IT Vereran of over 35 years, I was as a younger person much like those described in the article. /; rm -fr type of incidents
/.'s?
However I came to realise after doing some Consulting Skills Training, that my attitude was like it was mush of the time down to my inability to:-
1) Admit that I could ever be wrong
2) Being never able to say NO to requests and thus get totally over worked.
3) Being unable to put my hand up and say "Sorry. I goofed. Its all my fault. I was a complete idiot" eg su -; cd
When I got my head round the above then I started enjoying working in IT again. Admittedly, many of my colleagues could not understand how I would admit to problems I had caused. I couldnt care less about their feelings in these cases. My Managers (PHB's) could not handle someone saying No or admitting they goofed. But hey, my stress levels went down considerably much to the annoyance of my then wife who was an IT Project Mgr! She thought I didn't care. It is exactly the opposite. I cared about delivering what the customer wanted and less about CYA, arse or boot Licking and telling the Manager what he wanted to hear. I made some great friends but also a lot of enemies amongst those who could not handle 'Honesty'.
Now, I'm in my mid 50's, I run my own IT Consultancy and I have some very satisfired customers who appreciate being told 'How it is' upfront. I also sleep very well at night. I don't worry about the job 24/7
Does any of this ring a bell woth other
The problem is that IT people are seen as blue collar workers because they work so closely with machines. They are also not very rare, so they are easy to fire and replace. However, they do have to have lots of knowledge and skill in order to perform their job properly. Seeing their skills being equated to those of blue collar workers, it is not surprisingly that they get upset.
I had this conversation with a lowly user one time, and you know what, they have a very valid point.
The real issue is that from a users perspective, the IT department shouldn't even exist. From the general users perspective, if these machines were built correctly, you wouldn't need to have an IT department in most companies. Yes, we would need consultiants to set it up, but then it should just work.
We rely on the telephone systems, faxes and copiers just as much as we do the computers - heck, the computers even cost less per person - but we don't need a whole department to make those work. If computers were designed correctly, we wouldn't need them for computers either.
I scoffed at him for a long time, but you know what? He was - and is - right. So why can't we fix this? Why DONT we fix this?
I've been in the IT field for a number of years as an independent. I work as a semi-resident IT person for some companies on some days, generally one or two four hour days per week, and for other companies on an on-call basis. I've never seen the need to actually insult someone, though I must admit to having been less than diplomatic at times (lectures usually). Unfortunately, the world is fraught with those who do not care what they do, that what they do is stupid, that there are others who may be affected by their stupid actions, and the like. Let me relate a story to you, from personal experience. I used to do the (company is now out of business) IT work for mortgage broker for a few years a while back. This is the story of one day I was there. The day starts with a telephone call that of the computers there is "like popping up all the time". I answered with some or other dry humor remark which now escapes me, regarding the computer physically popping up off of the desk. I have never understood why people speak in such an idiotic manner. They flaunt their vagueness, their lack of knowledge. The computer doesn't pop up! Perhaps a message is appearing, or maybe an advertisement. Maybe the optical drive keeps opening for no reason. Or maybe it's turning itself on when it shouldn't be. The point is, I don't know. Different stupid people use the same phrase to mean different things, none of them quite correct. It turned out that a message of some sort was appearing. The person who called me, the same person who saw the message, didn't remember what it was. He didn't remember if it was an advertisement, a warning notice, a network message. "I don't know, I just closed it when it came up. I don't know what it said. It's happened a few times this morning" was his description of the message. The conversation with him was useless, so I scheduled a time to come in, even though I was free for the entire day, for later that afternoon. Upon arriving, I discovered that the computer had a couple of pieces of adware on it. Nothing serious, nothing that I could qualify describing as Spyware. The computer took about half an hour to totally straighten out. (Don't forget, this is before the days of this stuff really embedding it in your system!) I found that it all came from a multitude of screen savers and desktop additions (useless toys) that he had downloaded from a website which offered that sort of thing. By website, I don't mean something like Digital Blasphemy or Shifted Reality, who are totally trustworthy. It was something along the lines of "freescreensaver.com" or "freedesktopgarbage.com" type sites. I explained what had caused the problems, and the repeated advertisements, to the user. He claimed to understand. After finishing up everything, I was speaking to the boss/manager/whatever who was in charge, explaining what happened, approximately what I did to rectify the situation, and was just about to present the bill when I saw out of the corner of my eye that the idiot user was downloading something or other. I walked over to investigate, and found that it was some other kind of junkware, supposedly a desktop background, but packaged as an exe file. I reached over and depressed the ESC key (cancels download under Explorer or old versions of Netscape), then reiterated my earlier mini-lecture about downloading any kind of program from non trustworthy sites, and pointed out that it was a program, not a picture he was downloading. His responses were "Yeah I know but it's free! And it's only a picture so who cares?" I said "Great. Well, my services aren't," and pointed out that it was a program, not just a picture as he had stated. His explanation was "Yeah but you just open it and it installs itself for you." I settled the bill with the boss and left. The user was there for less than two more months before being fired for causing problems with the computers through the installation of non work related items. Sorry, everyone, about the terrible presentation of this story, I'm quite tired
While there are definately a large pool of arrogance in IT, thats true in any profession. I know plenty of cashiers that treat me like crap. I've been in the IT field over 20 years now, and what I notice is arrogance is actually rare, but frustration is abundant. Its too bad that that frustration carries over to the customer. Think of the Microsoft help desk guy. Any consumer that needs help thinks that the guy they are going to speak with will have all the answers. It becomes very frustrating for said helpdesk tech when they can't provide all the answers because of broken software, or just out of scope questions. They take a lot of abuse themselves, and wrongly they develop defense mechanisms against all consumers.
My help desk example is just one. There are plenty of uptight assholes in I.T., I've dealt with them, and I've also managed a lot of them. I preffer people on my staff that are able to work with customers, and learn to say "I don't know" when they really don't. Of course, there are always renegade tech people who think they know everything, and when they don't have an answer, take it out on the customer instead of just admitting they need to move up a tier of support.
With this all said. Don't forget that customers can be very unrealistic, especially if your "customers" are employees of the company you are supporting. I can be down right nasty to some of my "customers." Especially the ones who know they aren't supposed to be doing something but keep trying to anyway, like trying to install weatherbug, or spending too much time on non-work related sites. They get banned, then scream murder and blame the I.T. staff of incompentance. For all other customers besides these, I treat them with respect and never think they are stupid because they don't know something, or because the computer software they are using is really a buggy piece of shit.
In the end, its more than just saying "Oh, I.T. people are rude an arrogant, and more so than any other proffession." That's just bullcrap. I've seen plumbers, Doctors, librarians with attitudes, but I don't say their whole profession is like that.
The IT professionals I've come across that are rude are simply lacking in social skills and are shocked when they are told later that they are being rude or arrogant. It's down to the prevalence of Asperger's (or towards that part of the spectrum of autism). It's a natural condition. The thing is that too many companies allow geeks with no social abilities to interface to customers (directly in the case of tech support, indirectly in the case of writing UIs). It's time that the management of companies recognized the situation and had professional customer-facing technical support that came with a smile and empathy, and had professional interaction designers that realize "Error: Keyboard not connected; press F1 to continue" is not an acceptable thing to say to people.
"Computer go boom! Nice people come fix computer. Computer better now."
HTH. HAND.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
The title sort of assumes that IT is a profession. If it were a real profession, such as engineering, medicine, law etc. we all have to carry full O&E insurance. We would be legally liable for our work. At best, it is a trade.
I'm not rolling, I'm serious.
putting the 'B' in LGBTQ+
I did one year of community service (Zivildienst) working in maintenance in a hospital back in Germany. We did stuff like cleaning up clogged up toilets and stuff like that. Most people would probably consider it common sense that you shouldn't flush big things like diapers or bandages down the toilet. This happened constantly. Not from paintients but with the chamber-pot cleaners the nurses were using. And that despite us explaining over and over again that they will clog. Things got better when we were (unfortunately) very busy, and couldn't clean them for a day or two. Just one episode where the friendly way didn't quite work...
Although there are probably unfriendly people in IT, I wonder if management will ever hold users accountable for viruses, spyware or whatnot installed after they were explicitly trained to avoid the problem. Just a thought.
Let's look at this from a different perspective, okay?
What would a shop owner expect as an answer from a mechanic applicant?
Owner: "What do you think of customers who know absolutely nothing about cars?"
Mechanic: "I think they'll probably cause a lot of damage to their vehicles which means we'll make a lot of money doing the repairs."
How about a dentist?
Owner: "What do you think of customers who know absolutely nothing about tooth care?"
Mechanic: "I think they'll probably cause a lot of damage to their teeth which means we'll make a lot of money doing the repairs. Do we have literature I can recommend to them?"
See? The difference is whether the USER is paying for their ignorance or the COMPANY is paying.
In the case of tech support, in most cases (unless you're a contractor/consultant) it is the company that is paying the price. It's easy to be VERY nice when you're looking at a disaster that you'll be paid a couple of thousand dollars to fix.
It's completely different when you're looking at a disaster that will require you to work 60+ hours this week
Mechanic: "Honey, I'll be home really late but I'm making at butt-load of money! We'll party this weekend."
IT Tech: "Honey, I'll be home really late. I know. No, there's nothing I can do. Yes, I know. I know."
When companies want to hire H1B's or outsource their IT that tells you a lot what they think and want to think of IT professionals. They want to think of them as a cheap commodity. And you get what you pay for. Most non-IT co-workers think of IT as the socially challenged help desk workers little better than janitors and they think of sysadmins as someone with a beef that you don't pissoff but complain about and programmers as codemonkey slackers who play FPS games all day.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
I guess we should just find a "Politically Correct" bat and just club all of the IT people into submission. I read the 4 page rant and just about pissed my pants I was laughing so hard. If you want IT people to treat you better how about getting a clue!!! When you are told not to do something.... DON'T DO IT!! When you fail to follow simple instructions, bad things happen. If you do not like being treated like a child, stop acting like on.
This guy is obviously smarter than the monkeys in his IT department, perhaps he'd like to spend the remainder of his life explaining the same thing to the same mouthbreather every single day? He even acknowledges that professions are no different, they just insult you behind your back. If you call your doctor out repeatedly for the same thing and refuse to take medication or advice, he'll get upset and refuse to deal with you. If you work into your lawyers office screaming abuse and accusing him of incompetence or impropriety, he'll probably refuse to deal with you. Yet these are exactly the situations helpdesk ops and IT staff face every day and they don't get the choice of refusing to deal with a client.
Some people are too stupid to use computers and an alarming number of them are actually working in IT. Others, like the author of this piece are too stupid to work in IT or present a well reasoned argument, his essay is desperately lacking any point.
some people (both young and old) don't give 2 sh!ts about how computers work. The bottom line is that all these folks JUST WANT TO GET SOME WORK DONE. They don't care about CPUs or network switches -- the see the computer as a TOOL and they (the user) are immersed in their own world be it education - accounting - marketing - etc.
... only some who are high maintenance - some who are competant - some who are power users. I try my best to tutor the "challenged user" to make them more capable. I'm having a lot of fun at work.
After 16yrs as a hard core HW design engineer - I've moved to an IT position in a fairly large school system - working directly with users at a large high school. I see no users as "dumb"
My biggest hassle (which affects both me and folks I support) is some "hot-shot" IT jockey putting a new piece of equipment on line and bringing the entire network down - or mail application - etc. And of course "the boys down town in the IT center" see no reason to give the front-line support staff any kind of heads-up message ---- nor will they easily "fess-up" to causing the problem when you call them on it. IT managment is the worst enemy of IT.
Its not the years, its the mileage
I work in systems of my college's library and it so happened that one of the network printers got a new IP address which of course made all the systems set up to use this printer, not be able to use it. Upon explaining the problem, I was stopped about half-way and was asked "why does it do it?" (get a new IP address). I explained the basics of DHCP and dynamic IP addresses, but to me, the question was more like "why do electrons have a negative charge?" There are also people (librarians and students) that for some reason do not want to drop their usage of floppy discs ... even after being told that flash drives are more convenient and offer much more storage per physical space (not to mention not being as prone to corruption in presence of magnets).
How is IT supposed to deal with people that don't understand (and have no motivation to understand) why 2+2=4?
There is, believe it or not, a code of ethics for software developers, developed by the Association for Computer Machinery (ACM) ... In my ten years of experience, it was never once mentioned, nor did I ever come across it in a trade journal or programming magazine
Well, what do you expect? Just because some idiots manage to write some luser code of ethics, probably full of spelling errors too, doesn't mean we have all to follow it like slaves, man. Think of where we are coming from, the enlightening experiences that meet all who follow the IT path. You reach the inside of the IT industry and see that the aforesaid industry refuses to accept even the slightest responsability for the written code they are selling, and still people fights to buy the thing, instead of telling us to go fly a kite. And then you expect us to treat those meatbags as people?. Gimme a break! (In fact I need a break, some luser complaining about a crash in the new control software of the nuclear reactor has been botherin' me for hours now, before falling silent a couple of minutes ago. I suppose I might give the thing (meaning the user, not my shiny software) a bit of attention (if other proof of superiority was needed, it's here. Where else can you find people that writes using nested parentheses, uh? ) )
Rome taught me patience and assiduous application to detail. Virtues which temper the boldness of great, general views.
I'm on my way to change my career just because of how IT people conduct themselves. After being an Infrastructure geek for 7 years I went to business school and in the past 5 years I've been more engaged in other aspects of the business. Now I can clearly see how relatively close-minded my attitude was when I only dealt with technology. I used to think that business people made bad technical decisions because they were dumb, but ultimately businesses are there to make money and respond to many forces (including politics and power). For us IT People, the sad thing is, that although some of us mature and change, others just become more set in their ways and it's harder and harder to work with them because with years of experience comes "technical or SME power" that can be leveraged as a political tool. And just when you think you have your peers figured out, some new arrogant kid with tons of energy and a fresh mind from college comes in with the same attitude. Sadly we circumscribe to the same template. I used to get upset at users when they made mistakes, but now, as I become less of an SME, I can feel the pain that a "regular person" has. I know this may vary from organization to organization, but also IT today still doesn't have the visibility to the business as it should. I work for a reputable Tech company, and those who have the opportunity to influence the business ecosystem from IT are very few; although I hear many good ideas in the halls of our IT department every day. Soft skills are hard to come by in IT people, but those who have it can get ahead. In my case, I'm am really tired to deal with the same type of people (and I've done it Internationally and in the US... it's all the same folks). Let's try and be better.
It hurts you snobs, but helps me. A company I was at was killed by the dot com bust, and went thru several rounds of layoffs. I stayed long past the point justified by my competence level or seniority simply because I enjoyed doing user support, and it showed. But then again, I come at the profession from a different perspective than most of you. My resume includes: weed sprayer, janitor, warehouse clerk, forklift driver, truck driver, Pepsi man, factory worker, building maintenance, painter, roofer, ... So to me, at it's worst, this job is pretty good. (ask me about working a pepsi route sometime).
At the end, I was sole end user support for about 40 NT machines and 40 macs (there were 200+ when I started), along with still being email and phone admin and whatever else.
I know that burned up the laid off guys, especially the windows tech, (I was the mac tech); that here was a redneck with no computer schooling (hell, I barely passed my senior year of high school), doing 3 jobs basically, often better than they did. Example: user's Dell dies (everytime the power blinked I lost video card, network card, something), and they can't boot up or work at all. The other guys would make a big deal and take most of a day "restoring" or whatever they were doing. I didn't have time for that shit. Yank their drive, screw it into another box, and turn it on. 30 minutes, tops. Sometimes they had to live with vga video for the rest of the day, (until I got a chance to install that machine's video driver or run a repair install or whatever), but at least they were able to open excel files and generate revenue for the company, which is the point most techs miss.
IT people can only take so much abuse before becoming jaded. Who heaps the abuse upon us? Hmmm, let me think... oh, that's right, USERS! And now they have the temerity to complain when we treat them the same way? Fuck 'em!
Day in and day out, we answer the same dumb questions from the same people who are either "too important" to be bothered or just flat out REFUSE to learn how do to something (or in the case of getting pwned by malware, how NOT to do something) on their computer.
Users ought to be glad we don't come in with weapons and start shooting some of them, since according to Jack Thompson that's what all the games we play are training us to do.
I say this as someone who has been the resident "tech guy" in many different settings. In my experience many people who have worked with computers for years find it extremely difficult to remember what it was like before they had a particular piece of knowledge, and thus cannot easily put themselves in the user's mindset. Typically when they encountered a problem that they did not understand, they struggled with it for a few minutes or a few hours, learned just enough to move onto the next thing, and over the course of months or years picked up extra knowledge about the topic as they happened across it. This is not a practical approach for the average office worker any more than it's a practical approach for everyone who uses a car to learn how to rebuild a transmission while sitting on the side of the road.
Usually when an "it-person" is presented with a relatively trivial problem such as changing an ip address or installing a printer driver, one of two things happens. They can either perform the task (or walk the user through the task) while explaining in general terms what is being done, carefully avoiding the use of jargon, acronyms, and concepts that they know most users will not be familiar with. Or they can come in with an eye-rolling "oh brother not this again" attitude, perform the task while throwing language at the user they know full well will not be understood, and then take off.
The latter approach is easier and sometimes a little faster, but leaves the user feeling embarrassed, or makes the it-person look like a condescending jerk. The former approach requires a little bit of patience and some mental energy to think about what you are about to say and rephrase it or make use of analogies. It also doesn't help that people in this profession have notoriously bad communication skills. I'm not saying you need to teach a computer class every time you touch a keyboard, but making a small effort towards understanding the user's situation, and being realistic about your own, can greatly decrease the stress involved in the interaction.
Yes there really are "stupid users" out there, as there are in any profession, but I have noticed that those who do the most complaining about user stupidity are usually the ones who are the least secure in their own abilities. As with most professions you will find that the people who know the most have the least to prove.
I don't have to explain my rudeness to you. Fuck off slashdot!
Table-ized A.I.
First off, I would like to say that insulting clients and slamming users is never a good practice, and it should not be acceptable. Being a professional requires at least common courtesy. However, there are several mitigating factors to consider, some of which may be acting in unison, to produce a highly bad attitude from IT professionals as a whole. Whether this 'damages' the IT profession or not can be debated, but I believe it is very much subjective and depends on the specific situations and groups of people involved (i.e. a specific IT department's reputation at a particular company might be diminished in some peoples' eyes, but likely not IT as a whole). In any event, I'd like to point out the multitude of factors that contribute to an IT staff's bad attitude, and typically poor morale. Hopefully other non-IT types will read this so they can better understand where this attitude originates. In many cases I believe IT workers are not appreciated as much as they should be:
...I'd say the average salary of an IT 'professional' is somewhat (i.e. by a few factors) less than that of your average doctor or lawyer.
i t-for-me-because-I-am-important people. And when you treat people like crap for long enough, they will hate you.
IT is such a varied and wide-ranging term that it can mean anything from a helpdesk analyst on minimum wage up to consultants with 40+ years experience. When you consider that at the bottom end of the scale that the wage is comparable to working selling double glazing, or flipping burgers, you can quite understand some people's attitude as they are paid like shit whilst having to deal with people who *expect* their hand to be held with everything.
Also, from my experience it's not 'ignorant' or 'stupid' people who come in for stick - it's more likely to be the arrogant I-need-this-fixing-yesterday-and-yes-you-will-do-
Uh! Oh! Like, um, way do the IT people have to be so... I dunno! Like, um, pissy? I dunno! Why do cops loathe the miscreant scumbags that they have to deal with every day? Why do attorneys ask to be taken off cases when they're stuck defending child molesters? Why do restaurant employees spit in your food when you're winning an Academy award for the Most Outstanding Performance by an Asshole? Why do people flip you off after you jump your SUV over the curb and flatten an old lady to make the left turn from the right lane against the light?
the correct question to ask: why is a diploma in computer science also a license for the rest of the world to treat you like a doormat? You expect that you have a God-given right to be an asinine jerk and the IT department has no call to protest?
Firstly, their is no such thing as IT people insulting customers. At least not more than any other profession. I would say that a majority of IT jobs do not involve direct contact with customer, except for consultants. Secondly, there is not reason raising the issue since there is no sign of damage. Thirdly, if your evidence is a T-shirt from Thinkgeek, you are pathetic. You have to work harder. This kind of shirt have been around for a long time in fashion shops. Many people with no link to IT wear those.
So to save fellow readers time, here is the best and more revealing part of this article... the first sentences:
I'm an idiot. I'm stupid, clueless, dumb - hell, I'm a complete moron. I'm so inept, in fact, that a new word has been created to capture my incompetence: "luser." The rest fails to make a point.If someone is "ignorant," that means they "ignore." Being merely stupid is a condition outside of someone's control. You can feel sorry and understand a stupid person, but scorn is appropriate for the ignorant.
The problem with the IT field is that we work with complex networks of increasingly complex systems. It takes a LOT of study to keep up with the changes.
IMHO, too often, managers and users, get a free pass because of our "attitudes." Hey look, its like a car. If you don't want to know how to change your tires, you are going to need to pay a lot for something like AAA. IT should be the same thing, if you want to live in ignorance of the systems with which you work, you need to pay for some support dedicated to do the equivalent of towing your busted ass car to a mechanic. The IT worker is the mechanic, the tow truck driver is the customer service, don't confuse them.
Secondly, IT workers and software developers, again, spend almost as much time learning and keeping up, typically on their own time, as they do actually working. It is *our* job to know things. We, more often than not, have to deal with people who don't know what we know, and unless they wanted to spend 8 hours a day for 10 years reading the sorts of things we read, they aren't going too. But, that doesn't stop them from reducing the whole of our knowledge and experience to something they expect to understand and can make an informed decision on a two or three page memo. Its not going to happen, and "lusers" are responsible for their wrong decisions.
Computer Science, and the practical application of "Information Technology" is complex, there are lots of serious issues from memory management, to disk I/O, to stuff like processor 2 caching, SMP, and so on. The affects of which take years to develop "intuitive" knowledge. Sometimes it can't be summed up easily and neatly in a form people can understand if they don't already understand. An "obvious" problem to someone like me, sometimes is impossible in any reasonable length of time to explain to someone else. This is fundamentally true in every knowledge based industry.
Managers and people dealing with these issues have a responsibility, to try to understand the technology well enough.
As another poster pointed is that car mechanics do it too.
The real question is if they act like an ass in front of the customer. If so then they should not work in customer service anymore. Most of IT is support to help people do their jobs and if they insult customer or other co workers then they provide no value and need to be fired.
In any industry where its support (carpenters, mechanics, fast food) its really no different. Fact of the matter not everyone is meant for that kind of work.
PS I do phone technical support and rarely do I have people treat me rudely. If I listen to them and help them then all is good %90 of the time. If fights happen often it usually is the quality of the work the tech provides.
http://saveie6.com/
that's all. Bastard Operator from hell... Oh - having worked around doctors - they are not rude to their patients most of the time - but they treat others in the medical field as less that human. (ie - nurses, techs, service reps, etc...) I rank doctors one rung above lawyers as far as personality goes.
My Slashdot Journal! YAY!
PEBKAC implicated in UBI!
Every mans' island needs an ocean; choose your ocean carefully.
This is the reason I'm actually leaving my current job, a stealth startup that will likely be successful given recent buzz on the InterWebTube. My coworker has such a God complex that he even treats his peers this way. If you prove that he's wrong or he doesn't get his way, he'll actually throw a temper tantrum to the point that he'll leave the building. Management appears to be unable or unwilling to do anything about it, to the point that I was told that they hired me because "they could talk to me".
I just got fired for my "bad attitude". (Actually, i don't think it was that bad. i'm rather personable.) still. my boss thought i had an abrasive attitude around the office, and canned me. damn meatbag.
If you pour antifreeze in your engine oil, and complain to the dealer about how confusing their cars are, you can bet you'll be seriously insulted... At least, if you're rude, and they can't brush you off quickly.
Doctors have about as much respect for their patients as farm vets do... You are cattle to them. If you decide to take Vitamin C instead of antibiotics, then complain to the doctor about how badly his treatment is going, expect to be insulted.
The number of fields where an incompotent and rude customer WON'T be insulted is definately the minority. There just happen to be MORE incompotent computer users, that are, as a rule, more rude and just simply obstinate in the face of reality. They don't know the limits of computers, so anytime they don't get the magical result they WANT, many of them they get upset about it.
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
I think everyone here, especially the article author, is missing the basic *systemic* reason for IT-User antagonism.
... their boss ... would get them fired.
The reason is simple: the IT Department are the buffers between bad executive decisions and the majority of workers. As a buffer, IT gets abraded a lot.
It's *not* a matter of "luser" ignorance, no matter how that's the conventional wisdom. I work for a large tech company where the average user could design their own graphics co-processor, and we *still* hate the IT department and they hate us. Why? Because the executives chose to outsource IT to India, resulting in most of the company not being able to get support in our own time zone. As a result, we get kind of impatient and cranky when something simple (like a password reset) takes three working days to resolve, and something complex (like a request for *not* routing VPN traffic from SF to Atlanta through Norway) is completely impossible. As a result, we take out our frustration on the IT staff and they respond in kind.
It's a rare company where the support IT staff get to choose the software or platform the company will use. It's usually "magazine-ware" chosen by the execs regardless of functionality or even appropriateness to the business, and it's IT's job to "make it work" even if that task is patently impossible. So IT, stuck between a rock and a hard place, saves their egos by blaming the users. Since blaming the real culprit
If you compare it to Doctors, the *average* IT department operates in an environment like the *worst* HMO. And unlike doctors, there's nowhere to go that's better.
There's also the fact that IT, like Customer Service, spends the greatest amount of time dealing with the most pigheaded recalcitrant people, and tends to develop a dim view of humanity as a result. The majority of users, who aren't a problem, barely come to IT's attention.
IT takes a level of abuse unseen very nearly anywhere else.
If people drove their cars straight into trees, and then abused their mechanics for a) not being able to fix it and b) not having found some way to prevent it in the first place, mechanics would have the same level of contempt as well.
If people plugged 50 appliances into the same circuit, and then fired their electrician because "well, you never told me not to", electricians would also have their corners of the internet on which to bitch.
If one hundred people a day called the police saying "I was driving my car, and this sign popped up saying 'LANE ENDS, THROUGH TRAFFIC MERGE LEFT', what do I do?" and expect a polite and calm answer, "Oh, sir, that means the lane is ending, go ahead and merge into the lane one to your left... what? You hit someone? Well, yes, I told you to merge, but I expected you to look first. No, I didn't tell you to, but when you learned to change lanes in driving school, I... But... Yes, you can talk to my supervisor. Please hold... I'm sorry, sir; I understand that you don't want to hold, but my supervisor is on another call...", the hospitals would be full of incidents of police brutality.
IT has to deal with users with the apparent common sense of a concussed lemming and the reading comprehension of a pygmy shrew. And they like being that way! People are proud of their computer ignorance. I've had the owner of a small company - as I'm saving his livelihood by restoring the backups that I first had to spend two weeks talking him into buying - sneer at me and call me a "geek". I had another client - a salesman - note that he used to beat up people like me in high school, but he'd "found a use for us after all."
I think I need to start a fight club...
if the answer isn't violence, neither is your silence / freedom of expression doesn't make it alright
In large companies, no matter how apparently rude your IT guy is, at least you always know where you stand. Compare and contrast with the HR department who are sweetness and light only minutes before firing someone. Gimme sarcasm and honesty over smarm and deception any day.
And in my experience a lot of people's issue with IT guys are their own fault. In any large company there are certain people, no matter however important your job title, you have to ensure you always treat well. I've seen several Senior Managers throw their weight around and talk down to people who are in all likelihood far smarter than they are, just with lesser job titles.
IT guys are really great people to be friendly to, as are cleaners, canteen staff, and the security guys. If you look after them, they look after you. You absolutely need them, but middle management? Yeah, maybe not so much...
Like hell it isn't. You're clearly too stupid to understand it...
Insert self-referential sig here.
I blame the system :P
you just tend to develop a callous exterior when your superiors or corporate overlords start thinking they can bleed the "naive" IT tech/manager/et al, when the hot chick's pc in marketing fails, then she notices you; when a server fails during a holiday then your manager says how important you are to the operation.
But what happens when you ask for a raise or want to go high in the corporate ladder?
or Heaven's forbid.... vacations :o
I'm pretty sure I'm not alone here, but really... please.
What about malpractice in medics, leaving metal instruments in patients. Or immigration lawyers scamming underpaid illegal laborers. Crooked politicians. Police using excessive force. I can do this all day long...
Come on /. don't blame me for sticking it up the corporate man and standing for myself.
Besides, it feels great to say :
I'm here to solve problems, not to stand here and listen to your bull. kthxbai.
Face on salesman: *priceless*
Tokyo Robot Lords! Smile! Taste Kittens!
A lot of times, those of us in the IT field seem to forget that we spent a lot of time learning what we know. What is second nature to us is incomprehensible to someone who hasn't spent years in school and on the job working with computers. Did you know what DHCP was when you first started learning about computers? Or RAM? Or malware? Of course not. You weren't born with the knowledge, you had to acquire it. The same is true of everyone. The problem is, there are only so many hours in the day, and everyone has different interests and career goals. Someone can be intelligent enough to understand IT without having had the opportunity to acquire the foundation needed to do so, because of the time spent learning something else. You probably can't perform brain surgery, and a brain surgeon probably can't figure out what to do if the computer won't boot (individual exceptions may apply, of course). Everyone is ignorant about many things, and most are knowledgeable about a few things. Understanding this will help you have the perspective needed to be patient with other people's lack of knowledge in your field.
-Mike
I'm sorry; I don't know what I was thinking!
The article seems to be equating IT with software engineering - especially when he linked "it's debatable whether IT qualifies as a profession" to a page on the professional status of software engineering.
Where I work most of our software engineers aren't in the IT department, and there are certainly a lot of IT people who don't routinely call their customers idiots, lusers, or clueless.
However, I am a UNIX sysadmin and freely admit that I willfully piss off my "customers". Yes, it's true. I deny requests that are against policies and procedures established by the business. The sad thing is that the customer is 99% of the time fully aware of the policy and are merely trying to circumvent it, often by trying the different sysadmins, especially the newer ones who are still learning.
Most often reason for me to deny a request? Failure to follow change control procedures and obtain the appropriate approvals from all stakeholders before requesting the change. Change control procedures aren't just put into place by IT - they are demanded by the business and for some systems are required by regulations. The second most often reason is that the request violates security policy or procedure.
Yet, when I deny such a request because proper procedure hasn't been followed, I get to hear about how "IT gets in the way and we could do this so much (better|faster|easier) by ourselves."
I also do evil things that inconvenience users such as requiring them to change their passwords four times a year. I personally make their life rough by setting the system to lock their account after three unsuccessful logins - and I do it on purpose. I make it so hard for the developers by not giving them accounts on the production systems, and I interfere with the ability of the QA teams to do their jobs by not giving them access to unscrubbed logs containing containing the personally identifiable information of real people using our online services.
Believe me, I've heard about what a jerk admin I am.
"Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
This is exactly why i left my last job.
The MIS was an incompetant fool and with that talked down to *everyone* like they were inferior garbage.
That's one industry that has definitely suffered from its employees bad attitudes. Next thing you know IT agencies and professionals will be floundering as badly as pitiful companies like McDonalds and Jack in the Box. Your days are numbered IT!
When you finally join the business world, you'll learn a few things:
#1. It's all about time and money.
#2. Time is money.
#3. Therefore, it's all about the money.
Unless you're an IT company, IT is a loss. IT sucks profits from the company. The best IT can hope to accomplish is to make the jobs of the people who do bring in the money easy enough that they can bring in MORE money that at least balances the cost of IT.
That means you focus MOST of your efforts where you will have the MOST improvement in that.
That is the "understanding and communicating with people" answer that will get you hired and keep you employed. If you can increase profits 10x, 20x, 50x, 100x the amount you're being paid, you're a "success".
That "noob" who doesn't know anything about computers needs to be incredibly valuable to the company for your example to work. I'm not saying that the situation cannot happen. I'm saying that you'll have more instances where doubling the company's profitability will be more important than helping the "noob" learn how to operate a computer, on company time, at the company's expense, using company equipment and eating up your hours.
This is on my wall:
1) I understand you're upset -- a problem like that would drive me crazy too.
2) Let me make sure I understand the problem...
3) Ok, it's our job to make sure you can use our software without frustration, so this is our fault.
4) We are working it and will get back to you as soon as we have the fix.
Never had anyone hang up angry, no matter how angry they were when they called. In fact, quite a few say they've never been treated so well by tech support before, and tell me that we can take our time getting the fix done.
"The customer is always right..." is restricted to the front of the shop.
I studied with a guy who worked in a electronics (radio / tv) shop, and he went on about how stupid the customers were. I believe he was wrong, he was explaining the same basic thing 20 times a day, but forgetting that it was to 20 different customers, none of whom had this as their particular expertise. Nonetheless, explaining the same thing over and over while being forced to smile politely means that you build up some stem, which needs to be released.
I very much suspect it is the same for every profession that has direct contact with the users. The IT people just happened to be better connected, so you see their stories more on the net. And it is not all IT people, it is mostly system administrators and other support personnel, the negative attitude towards lusers are less rampant among programmers, who are often shielded from direct contact with the users.
Basically it is quite healthy as long as people are professional during the actual confrontation with the clients, and the submitter should get over himself .
As if if there weren't enough opinion pieces here, here's a reply to the blog.
...and of course, you clicked the link. Sheesh. I'll agree your IT department royally
screwed up that policy by send the info in an attachment, but the final fault is yours.
The fact that you CAN fake an email address is one of many reasons you were asked NOT
to click it. Sure enough, contrary to advice, you did something you weren't supposed
to. THAT is the sort of thing that earns people the ire of ANY professional; ignoring
sound advice because it doesn't jibe with your world-view IS ignorant. People with
emphysema {on oxygen tanks, no less} that smoke, folks who check gas tanks with
lighters, doofs that climb down their chimneys just to get stuck... ALL these morons
were doing something they were told NOT to. Just why should I feel sympathetic?
[I'm an idiot.]
Good start.
[I'm stupid, clueless, dumb - hell, I'm a complete moron. I'm so inept, in fact, that a new word has been created to capture my incompetence: "luser." I feel terrible about it, I really do; it was never my intention to upset my IT department - heck, the whole IT industry - by not being bright enough to use the wonderful tools they give me. But I just can't seem to get it right.]
Gee, being bright has less to do with it than you think. My FAVORITE customers are the folks that upfront say, "I am CLUELESS when it comes to computers." They know what they know and don't about PCs, and are WELL AWARE of that boundary; they don't attempt to cross it for good reason. These aren't "lusers", they're users; the easiest of ALL client types [IMHO] to work with. Show them what you need them to do and NOT do, and they'll follow it religiously. The reason you're an idiot follows here.
[I mean, I know I'm not supposed to click on attachments. Clicking on attachments is bad. My IT department sent me an email explaining this. They were even kind enough to attach a Word document explaining how to set my computer up to prevent the spread of viruses through attachments like...well, like Word documents. I have to admit, that little irony had me scratching my head for a few minutes. Was this some sort of test for us lusers to see if we pay attention? Then I realized the message came from my IT department. And you can't fake an email address. No way.]
[I think I passed their test.]
What IT department has the time to TEST their users?!? Unless it's directly tied to training or downsizing, I've never seen any reputable department waste time like this. You want to look at it as a test, fine. You clicked the attachment. You failed the test.
[And yet they still think very little of me. I read their blogs: "Users are stupid and that needs to be the starting point for software developers." I read their trade magazines: "No matter how hard we pray...every network is at one time or other exposed to the ultimate technology risk: users." I know, I know, I probably shouldn't be reading these blogs and magazines; it's all highly technical stuff they're talking about, and I'm probably missing the crucial subtext when they refer to me as "this most dangerous species of wildlife." My problem is that I just don't get it.]
Right. You don't get it, yet you're willing to spit out 4 pages explaining why it's OUR fault you don't get it. You've ignored one of our most basic mantra: RTFM. If you had read the plethora of articles available online, in magazines and books, you'd see why social engineering remains one of the most successful vectors for any network attack. There lies part of the problem: you want to learn about a topic without reading or studying it. Good luck.
[Or, not.
The IT profession - and it's debatable whether IT qualifies as a profession - needs to get its act together and start acting like one. Today, IT behaves more like a high-school clique, knotted together in the cubicle maze, snickering and slandering everyone who's n
Don't tell me to get a life. I'm a gamer; I have LOTS of lives!
Doctors are seriously bad when it comes to respecting the clients. I used to work in a hospital, and couldn't believe how doctors laughed about dead and dying patients when the doors were closed. Say what you want about IT, but at least we're not going to get together and laugh at you and your family after your loved one burns to death. Yah, I know, defense mechanisms and all that. I still say it's about as disrespectful as one can get.
There's such a dearth of talented IT professionals who actually know how to positively interact with others (including other IT professionals), that in my experience there's roughly a 200% salary uplift for people with a combination of IT systems talent and people skills. Of the people I've worked with over my years in IT (going on 6 now), there is a significant percentage I would consider as talented or more talented than I am. However of those people, a minute percentage of those talented people can actually have a positive conversation with their customer. Definition of customer in this case can be a user, IT manager, or literally customer (in the case of vendor relationships). Disputes over the idiotic things customers want to do are the root of the problem. Most IT folks are unable to state why the customer should not do things the way they are currently doing things or plan to do things. Instead they just spout off about how things are wrong. The result is that these people are dismissed ("engineers love to tell you why you can't do something"), and only positive people are listened to at the managerial level. The message that things are being done incorrectly never gets to the level where things can be changed, because those who know don't have the interpersonal skills to make their case to management. The way I approach idiot customers is to state how they plan to do it, and explain that it is a valid way of doing things, then explain the alternatives, and which risks the alternatives eliminate. This simple process has netted me 2-3x the income of other similarly (technically) skilled people I've known over the years. Those who cannot approach their customers with respect (if not humility) are destined to never work directly with them, and never to have an influence over the truly meaningful things they work on.
My first true work experience in a large IT department was recently when I did contract work for a large insurance company. 1300 users upgrading them to Windows XP on all workstations and migrating their data. Previously I had worked for small IT firms designing and maintaining networks for small businesses.
I was shocked and appalled at how poorly the staff at this company treated the IT staff. They had a whole 3 people for desktop support for 1300 people and they always smiled through it. I was just a contract guy who came in at night and if I was unlucky and caught the user before they went home, I often got a lecture about this or that and scolded because I was going to replace their AT ergo keyboard b/c they neglected to order an new one through their dept when they were supposed to. Just crazy stuff. The staff had to put up with it b/c the dept managers allowed it. They thought of the IT staff like they would the janitorial staff. I really feel for those folks as well.
I am not sure what may cause IT snottiness but if it is anything, it is the attitudes of the employees of that company. The IT staff that you deal with daily often doesn't choose the software you use, the PCs they are installed on and the monitor you look at. They didn't decide to move your "buttons" when they upgraded you to a new version of office and they can't help if your dept manager won't buy you the $300 keyboard that you prefer. So please, don't yell at them. They can't help if there are 25 people ahead of you that need help with their system so don't scream at them if it takes more than 10 minutes to get to you. They don't know everything so if it takes them more than 2 minutes to fix it, don't call them an idiot and please don't stand over their shoulder and tell them how to do their job. If you decide to do things with your computer that you have been told not to do, don't blame them when it creates a bigger problem. It is not your personal computer, it is a tool that your company lets you use to do your job. A tool you told your company you knew how to use when they hired you.
What the workplace in general needs is a big hug. I truly treat each person as if they sign my check b/c in essence, we help each other make our money. Without you, there is no need for me, without me, you can't do your job. We need each other. I don't work for you, I work for our company. I have no reason to not want you to succeed. I don't know the answers to many questions, but I am happy to find it and learn more about it,
Treat each other with respect and if someone is truly a problem, no matter which department, get rid of them. If someone has that kind of attitude, they are unhappy but too lazy to find new work that they may enjoy. Why not do them a favor and help them.
IT complains endlessly about users.
Users ask for this, users ask for that, all IT tells them is, "We can't support that."
Users complain endlessly about IT. IT never does anything they ask. What they do, they don't do right.
Notice how most IT departments NEVER ASK THEIR USERS WHAT THEIR NEEDS ARE. They simply decide what their users should have, regardless of their requirements.
Notice how most users NEVER TELL THEIR IT DEPARTMENT WHAT THEY REALLY NEED. It is the responsibility of the user to tell their IT department what they need to do their job. IT's job is to tell them honestly what it would take to support those requirements. In the end, there should be a compromise.
If you have two groups, not talking to each other, and both think the other is an asshole, then everyone involved gets what they deserve - Crap.
Jokes are one thing. Every profession has its peeves and its inside jokes (in the medical profession see: BUNDY, OAP, I'd read some better one's but I can't find them). I work in the IT industry and sure, when you're kicking around with tech friends its fine to vent a little. I read my BOFH near weekly (lots of laughs).
But customer service, if I want to move forward in my profession (and I do), is fine. Just because someone doesn't share my particular expertise doesn't give me the right to ridcule them outright. In fact it doesn't make me a better person or any such thing. Its can simpmly be frustrating sometimes. I give the best service I can. In fact I take pride in it. L users aren't a fact, just an expression. They are just people trying to get things done. Sometimes they need a little help and deserve the most respect and care you can give them.
Of course I work a little farther up the food-chain then help-desk, so I probably don't see some of the worse, but there's still no real excuse.
And frankly, my tier 1 experiences with just about any industry are about the same. IT isn't falling behind (if you ever have got IT support where they immediately solve the problem you probably realise there's almost a better chance of getting good support within our industry, but YMMV).
If there is a point to this story it should be that customer service is falling across the board. Thats a fact and eventually its going to start biting companies in the ass. And it should.
Quack, quack.
It isn't the user's job to know how every minor function of every program to work. They were hired to do a specific job. They're the financial accountant, why are you expecting them to know how how to manage the user accounts on their part of the network without training? Some might, but it isn't an essential part of the job they do.
It's a lot closer to being able to change the oil or spark plugs in my car. I can still get my car from home to work to the store without having to know how to change the oil. When I do need the oil change, I go to the Jiffy Lube. There's really no need for the average driver to know how to fix his own car.
Yet, for the same types of ignorance, IT guys feel the need to act as though the users are retarded if they can't do the IT equivelent of oil changes and spark plugs. It isn't the user's job to tweak their machine. It isn't their job to know the IT network forwards and backwards. You can teach anyone the big things, but don't expect them to learn everything.
It's the job of IT to secure the network. If doing something would harm you, then it's your job to make sure that they can't do it. If you think the "lusers" are too stupid to understand "opening attachments is bad", then block them at the firewall. If you don't think the users will understand that macros can carry a virus, disable macros when you install Word. There's no reason to force users to do IT work that they don't want to learn.
"I'd say, it is more a positive trend. To my eyes, it means just: "We are not necessarily looking for a technical person with good communication skills, speaking 2 foreign languages fluently and managing experience. We are just looking for a person with good technical skills with a personal interest in intelectual challenges."
That's one way to look at it. The other is that they're simply lowering their standards so they cam get warm bodies to fill the chairs.
BTW one reason women may not go into male dominated professions is the constant being hit upon, and the sexist attitudes displayed (exhibit A: slashdot)
You should have done Theoretical Physics or Maths, it comes with the added benefit of looking down not just upon your users, but universally on everybody (if you do Maths also on Theoretical Physics). Especially CS students actually.
...that's driven by business requirements is still unrealistic.
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
I read your article linked from Slashdot. Being in IT software dev for over 10 years, the arrogance and condescension of the industry has on several levels alienated me from many of my co-workers. Since most of my friends and peers outside of work are artists (who can be every bit as condescending in their own right) or in other professions (medicine, sales) I have a lot of perspectives about technology from non-industry users.
I found your article dead-on and clearly exposed the haughty air of IT. I believe it comes from the immaturity of the industry in the way it interacts with the client-base. I don't believe that other industries have any less condescension. For example, many car mechanics are less than impressed with the average suburbanite who can't change their own oil. They just know enough within the industry to smile and nod to the customer while they are forking over the cash. I believe most people within industries have a level of "industro-centrism", but the smart ones conceal it for thew sake of professionalism.
I believe your article is pretty much saying the same thing. I believe you are already seeing that the software, service centers and web sites that are easily used by the 'lusers' are the ones that are coming out on top. Just like with any industry, there are some really poor examples of customer service. This will continue in IT, but the ones who get it and can respectfully interact with customers will succeed.
The ones who maintain the 'lusers' mentality will simply end up as the 'lusers'. The smarter you are in IT, the more respect you will show the clients and the further you will go in your career.
IT staff should *never* badmouth their customers (and yes, users should be considered customers). It is unfortunate that some of them do. There are legitimate reasons for frustrations, however. It seems that you are turning around and blaming the IT staff, which I think is not the appropriate thing to do. This creates a cycle of user-blames-IT-who-blames-users. The blame game circles around the root cause of much of these problems: poor project management.
Software engineering has many similarities to building bridges or buildings, at least at this time. However, perhaps because the product isn't physical, there seems to be an enormous amount of pressure in many companies to build with little regard to SQA testing, documentation, or user community research. This to me is equivalent to opening a restaurant without performing basics like demographic surveys and making sure your broilers are up to fire code standards. Fundamental questions (such as flexibility versus security, a *huge* dilema when designing any IT framework) are often unanswered, and left up to chaos to decide (not always in the way either IT staff or users want).
When bugs arise, there is often a demand to quickly repair the bugs and get them out of there ASAP. I understand that bugs look the same to users, but they are not always easy to solve. To put it in construction terms, you can use spackle to quickly patch up a small hole in the drywall. But patching a major structural defect with spackle is foolhardy. Yet patching software with "spackle", regardless of bug severity, seems to be standard practice in too many companies.
On the opposite side, when I've seen management put into place, they too often act more as a shield than a useful business process tool. Too many help desks have large layers of unnecessary bureaucracy and paperwork to deal with, while the user sits there with their problem. No wonder many users refer to the help desk as the "helpless desk". The same goes for IT change management processes, they are often way too unresponsive in my experience.
Communication and technical skills seem to be a ying and a yang type thing in people: it's rare to see both in the same person. This is why IT management is so important (and well paid): the best kind can act as a successful medium between the technical and the user community, and avoid many of the problems so common with IT development.
Two other points. First, it is mistaken to say that IT is the only field with personality type conflicts. (Take creative people vs. business users, for instance.) Finally, the online world is not representative of the real world. Many people use blogs to vent their frustrations. Hell, just look at the "customers suck!" websites and Livejournal communities. Many of these blogs are vents, nothing more, and not representative of what goes on in the workplace.
I don't think there would be a distain for those whom we (IT people) attempt to help if we were getting the equivalent of hundreds of dollars and hour to patiently train them.
The author of the original posting makes it sound like it would be soooo easy to disbar a corrupt lawyer (hey we're talking a laywer who violates his fidiciary duty to his client) or a cardiologist who, being paid $500 for what amounts to an hour's worth of work (mostly his nurses) says simply "Oh just lose weight"... who totally misses a severe restrictive apnea diagnosis. But a relative of the same cardiologist... owning a business doing a medical package asked for intensive research to assist in a conversion... only to attempt to reject a much lower hourly rate because I, setting aside other paying work, had to wait around while they backed up a system they procrastinated in doing and other events beyond my control made it impossible to achieve the desired result. Think about it... When you go for surgery, they [so called "professional" medical "providers" guarantee nothing except that you have to pay the bill, win, lose, or draw. But in IT, nothing but absolute success or we shouldn't be paid!
But that's nothing compared to dealing with management of companies which rely heavily on IT which are totally stupid about their ignorant mandates. I've personally witnessed lunacy at the high levels and we're expected to welcome this stupidiy and hold it all in... Hey, pay me $100 for a 5 minute visit like the doctor and I'll be polite as all getout... and management will rapidly get a clue when the bills roll in. I won't have to tell them they're inept. The invoices will tell all!
Think about it... one eye doctor I did a tiny bit of work for, does the same handful of surgeries... Over and over for big bucks... But I'm expected to handle situations with millions of possibilities using platforms and tools dictated to me by misguided mandates or by mandates of working with a legacy systems which are no longer suppored... I'm expected to do it perfect... and for what is relatively piss low pay. The stupid eye doctor wanted guarantees and I laughed and said I wouldn't even make the call.. and that I had to get a signed and faxed (hourly) contract before I would investigate. Since there was no one else within a 50 mile radius with a brain or a clue they signed the agreement and I figured out the mess and got them working again but it just goes to show you that those so-called "professionals" guarantee nothing yet when somebody provides services to them they want to hold all the cards.
In IT we provide a service to those who don't want to bother learning to do things for themselves... but then get harassed by those same incompetents who, unwilling to understand what they're doing, expect us to do it cheerfully for pay far beyond what I would consider "professional remuneration".
Even the contractor rates these days don't really allow for skill and professionality... The rate differential can only really be justified by the fact that contractors are "temps" (temporary workers) and can get let go in a heartbeat, and can ultimately be the scapegoats needed by the inept LUSERS in management who need yet another excuse to hide behind.
So in the end I think LUSERS like the author of the article get the "Best Attitude That Money Can Buy"!
Pay us a s***load like those other "so-called" professions (whose practitioners hide behind licenses and certifications) and we'll treat you like the gold that we would be making!
_Unlocking the Clubhouse_ talks about the experience of CS undergrads at CMU. They conclude it was a "death of a thousand cuts" phenomenon. No one thing drove talented hard-working women out of the field, it was the steady drip of one problem after another. The culture was only one of the problems, but a real one. A lot of the women looked at it and figured that they'd given up parties and sleep to get into CMU, but no way were they giving up showers to become a "real" geek.
I'm good at what I do after 8 years in IT, and I know that. But I'm not arrogant about it. There are people that have deeper knowledge and broader experience. Still I know that I am skilled, often more skilled than people I work with, but I also know that there is much to learn. One of the people that helps me learn those new things is the customer. I've never seen any really skilled developer in IT ragging on the customer--ever. The really good people see very clearly and never lose sight of the fact that the customer drives the product and when the customer does not understand what your product is doing, that's work that you, the developer has to do.
In other words, the people feeling all superior and insulting the customer are actually saying, "I don't know what the customer wants or how to give it to them," each time they are condescending or insulting. I'd like to reiterate though, that I've worked at 6 companies in the past 8 years and never had the misfortune to work with people like that, so I'm not so sure how common the attitude in the article really is. On the other hand, when I interview, I weed out any company where I talk to a developer and I get the "holier than thou and holier than thy neighbor too" response.
And for sure, you're right. IT does not have a monopoly on this. People are the same in every industry. A couple weeks ago I overheard a bunch of Fred Meyer employees ranting about the stupidity of their customers. Blaming other people is always a way of excusing personal responsibility for the happiness or lack there of in your own life. Always.
I suspect that those who complain of their IT staff having bad attitudes would benefit greatly from serving in the IT support role for 6 months - maybe a year. We're not bad people; we do this stuff because we want to help.
But the work environment isn't exactly nice. Someone has a problem; they fuss around with it and get increasingly frustrated before finally calling for help. Then the IT guy gets a face full of their frustration while he's trying to figure out what went wrong, how to fix it, and how to stop it from going wrong again.
The "help desk" is rated on how many trouble tickets they handle and how many / how fast they close them, so they're highly motivated to close as many as possible immediately. That at least partially explains the experience so many have had when they call the help desk, get told to reboot the computer and call back if that didn't fix the problem. Bingo; another ticket "handled" and closed.
Of course, that also creates more hostility for the IT tech to deal with when the user finally breaks through to the second level. And don't forget that every problem is priority #1 and must be solved RIGHT NOW. Heaven help you if you have to order a part or a particularly tricky problem takes several hours to unravel - now you'll have management howling at you for failing to meet their expectations. Those are the same expectations that make the pointy headed crowd decide that you should only spend 20 or 30 minutes per repair - and then you're assigned problems at the rate of 16 or 20 per day to solve. Yes, they do that - and this is why someone further up the page noted that it took days for the IT guy to finally show up. Too much work, gotta perform triage - problems that prevent people from working come first, problems that affect productivity come second, everything else waits until last.
Now, while you're getting abused from above and below, imagine visiting someone's PC and finding it loaded with spyware and other junk they downloaded from the web. Too much business critical data to reimage the machine, so you spend two or three hours rooting out the junk - while the user, their manager, and your manager are bugging you for status updates every three minutes. Get it done, give it back to the user with careful instructions about company policy regarding downloaded programs. Do you receive any thanks? Nope; you'll have to explain why you failed to meet management expectations on this repair.
Now two days later you get sent to see the same user because the machine you spent so much time on is malfunctioning again. Take a look and find that the user has downloaded and installed all the same games / themes / spyware they had on it before. You know how this is going to turn out - it's all your fault - what would YOU do?
Imagine this kind of stuff going on day after day, week after week, year after year. How would YOUR sunny disposition hold up?
"When the customer prides himself on his ignorance..."
Usually those posts get modded +5:Insightful.
"...it's high time for niceties to stop. JM2c."
Those get modded -1:Troll
Google gomer+"medical school".
"Men must be taught as if you taught them not,
And things unknown proposed as things forgot"
I've helped customers develop policy and set up awareness programs, and if you care whether those work you'd better have explanations handy, and those explanations damn well better not include the term "hypervisor-based rootkit". My approach is to build on what clients already know. There's a danger of overusing metaphor, of course.
If customers stopped arrogantly pretending that they *know everything* about IT, we'd stop making fun of them.
Actually, I find strength of my small personal IT services business in being gentle and frank with users - as a result, we stick for longest terms possible, I do even occasionally think it goes too well. Looking back - those long long years of working together still have to stand for something.
Servant of karma
So IT has an interesting difference from most other parts of a company.
An ordinary user can't take down a phone system by accidentally hitting three buttons on their phone. They can't take down the power to the building by turning on the wrong power switches in their office. However, they CAN potentially take down a significant part of computer infrastructure by opening the wrong attachment, and thanks to the virus and spyware-infected world of computing, that's relatively likely.
With this sort of power one would normally expect an equal amount of knowledge and responsibility, but it's not really their fault that they've had that much power thrust into their hands. Also, they have their own jobs which (generally) require their time and attention, and they shouldn't have to become an IT expert to do their own work.
Furthermore, there are some truly unrealistic demands placed on IT, probably moreso than most departments. People who phone and say, "my computer is broken--fix it RIGHT NOW!!!" may be completely unable to do their work (which is bad), but are unwilling to look at a larger picture of, 'I can fix your computer, or I can fix all outbound mail being sent to our largest partner.'
Bottom line is that computers are both essential to business, and also the most unreliable and time-intensive part of modern corporate infrastructure.
However, none of that makes any difference in the end. If you're employed to support people, then you'd damned well better support them professionally. Keep your bitching to jokes within the team and keep them to a minimum. Treat people with all the respect in the world and always work to the best of your abilities for them, even if they don't deserve it. That's what professionalism is all about.
"People who do stupid things with hazardous materials often die." -- Jim Davidson on alt.folklore.urban
>Even plumbers know that their work is appreciated.
"Even" plumbers?
I own a house. I've tried doing my own electrical work and my own plumbing work. I succeed at the electrical work. Plumbing is way harder. Those people are experts who can do difficult things safely in a short time.
Who has saved more lives, doctors, or plumbers?
"The society which scorns excellence in plumbing because plumbing is a humble activity, and tolerates shoddiness in philosophy because philosophy is an exalted activity, will have neither good plumbing nor good philosophy. Neither its pipes nor its theories will hold water."
-- John W(illiam) Gardner
Fuck you!
"All you have to do is be fragile and grateful. So stay the underdog." Chuck Palahniuk, Choke
We often get to see data first hand that lawyers need subpoenas to obtain.
Well, not if you're the user's lawyer. On the other hand, we do get to see data first hand that any other co-worker looking at it might result in an incident involving high-priced lawyers; that only happens to IT if we stumble on evidence of a felony. (If then, depending on policy and the IT person.) In most IT jobs, civility to users is desirable, but integrity is non-negotiable. Given the nature of the law of supply and demand, competence can be a substitute good for civility.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
I try to be friendly and professional all the time, but it definitely is tough. What irks me the most is when users ask the same questions every few weeks without listening to the answer given. They'll ask for detailed reasons why a server locks up, and make you explain it in simple laymen terms, but they don't want to hear the reason why a strong password is required. Computers shouldn't be thought of as a magic box that does half your work for you. Its a tool in which you have to invest time and learning, so that you may be more effiecient at your job. Most staff don't feel this way. They couldn't care less why something they are doing is hurting the computer or making my life hard. For some reason, they feel its not their fault or their problem. Also, by the time someone calls or reaches IT, they are already frustrated and blaming the computer system for whatever troubles they are having. This means that we are always dealing with irate people, and it in turn gets very frustrating for me as well. Furthermore, most problems I have seen could be easily combatted with a program or device that would undoubtedly save money right away, but management is wary to make any large-scale technological shifts regardless of how often we meet to discuss. Then you have things like people getting error messages, clicking OK, and then calling IT. Obviously that error message was trying to tell you something. Even if you didn't understand it, maybe IT will, and be able to solve the problem faster. I think that I forget sometimes that users don't know that much, and the actions they take aren't deliberate. Because to a technically-inclined person, the things they do can seem unecessarily cruel and baffling. A Good Example I once had 20 management-types decide in a meeting(unbeknownst to me) that they were getting to much spam and decided I should do something about it. So how did they tell me? They all forwarded me every piece of spam they got with prefaces like "Can you stop these?" I was getting hundrerds each day. If these people were computer-literate, I think my anger would have been justified, because that's just mean.
>users should not be allowed to install any software, not even a screen saver
I know what you mean, but the example isn't the best. Installing a free screensaver is not a safe experiment, and removing some spyware is harder than getting rid of crabgrass.
[Actually a newsgroup post I was planning to circulate more widely, only to discover there aren't many Cashette users left. However no time to edit it just now. And anyway, this is /...]
Sorry for the non-topical addition to the discussion, but since you are a
current user of Cashette, it is possible that we share motivations as
regards email. Also, there's the warning part...
Regarding the motivations part, I hate spam, but I would like to have an
email address that could be used in public without being flooded with spam.
Since spam is fundamentally an economic problem, only economic solutions can
be truly effective, so I was optimistic Cashette might offer a real
solution.
I used Cashette for several years, but I am convinced it is now a one-man
operation on the verge of disappearing into bankruptcy, so I would both like
to warn you and to ask if you know of a good alternative. Or perhaps some of
the other readers know of a truly good email system for use in the
newsgroups?
My own Cashette account has been destroyed or locked, so you can't reply via
email (since I haven't yet decided on a new public-use email system). I will
watch this thread using Google Groups to see if there are any public replies
to this branch.
However, I think it may be helpful to review Cashette's sad story. The main
feature of Cashette was an economic model of email. I think prepaid email
would be even better, but Cashette was using a kind of
challenge-and-response approach with penalty payments for spammers. (By the
way, Cashette still owes me some money, but I regard that as a minor
grievance at this point. Probably a dollar, or maybe a buck and a half. I
certainly hope you [the Cashette user] aren't hoping to make any money off
of it...) Cashette has always been kind of flaky, and I've reported a number
of problems over the years, some of which were fixed. I've also offered a
number of suggestions, though I don't recall that any of them were adopted.
The main problem I perceived with Cashette was that the system still
collected and displayed spam, though in a special folder. If it's there, I
feel obliged to scan the folder for false positives, and that basically
negated the main spam-free virtue of Cashette. I offered several suggestions
for enhancements to improve the value of Cashette. Actually, I should be
more precise and note that it actually became unrealistic even to scan for
false positives. As noted in the following email, the volume of spam became
very large.
At first, I was thanked for the suggestions, though as noted, I don't
believe any were adopted. Finally, the response was not thankful and polite,
but extremely rude, as shown below. I thought about it for a while. I asked
for an apology, and didn't get it. I conclude that Cashette is down to one
BOFH and is on the verge of going away. Hence I prepared this post for other
Cashette users.
(However, there already seem to be very few users of Cashette, so perhaps my
experiences are too typical and this warning is too late? I laugh to recall
that I once attempted to defend the reputation of Cashette. You seem to be
only the second Cashette-based poster I could find...)
Let me repeat my main query: Can you recommend a good email system that can
be used in public places such as the newsgroups without being inundated with
spam?
Now for your entertainment and amusement, and certainly not to help the
reputation of Cashette, here is my recent correspondence with the BOFH of
Cashette. Sorry about the layout problems, but that's just another one of
the bugs in Cashette.
From: Cashette Support
To: Shannon Jacobs
Sent: Tue Nov 28 21:17:37 PST 2006
Subject: Re: Currently 2,390 blocked messages
> You're a bitch. Go fuck yourself and then go to hell. Have a nice day.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Shannon Jacobs"
> To: "Cash
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
IT is full of misunderstood words. IT people dramatize 2nd phenomenon a heck of a lot more than most
Scientology Works.
You see they are too far up the org chart to actually address a tech support staff, who is considered one above the janitor in most organizations.
Wow. You're a prick. Yes, I'd say that tech support is on par with janitorial services in business, as it should be. Both positions involve maintaining systems that the business needs to *use* to generate income. Neither janitorial services or tech support are mission critical, and neither one earns a company money (unless it is a janitorial firm or a tech support firm). IT workers, by and large, need to understand that they are not necessarily any more important than janitors, and stop pretending like companies succeed or fail based on whether or not they show up to work.
Those who count in binary, those who don't, and those who mistake trinary for binary.
Take off every 'ZIG' !!
I think much of the bad attitude arises from the stress of the profession and the instability of the job. Usually, IT, being the intangible asset is the first to experience cutbacks. When cutbacks happen, more responsibilities are already heaped upon the IT professional making the job even more stressful. Sometimes the attitude is the answer to the attitudes the users give. Remember, this is a two way street and I don't even see it as a customer service thing. Attitudes in any organization are pervasive and trickle down from the head. If bosses are jerks, then the worker bees can become that way in turn.
When Harvard Business school and equivalent schools such as Darden Business School teach their aspiring asskissers and number jugglers that engineers are morons- You get an understanding of why so many businesses fail by non-engineers, and why IT people are sick of being treated like janitors when they are- in fact- the core value of the business.
Once MBA's grasp the same clue ass grandma when she can't connect to Al Gore's IntarWeb, then perhaps IT will be treated with the respect that it deserves. People that are the most learned are called Doctors. They simply understand more than most and control that information. At least, they used to. Now it's IT's world, and everyone else is in the back seat.
That awareness has not yet sunken into the public. Even though Bill Gates could buy half the Planet, they still don't get it. And honestly, fuck them. If they want customer oriented care 24/7 from IT, then pay them like a MD or JD. Otherwise, go fuck yourself.
it's because in most non-IT industries the IT people are costs to be minimized rather than part of the profit center of the company. We are overhead and we are treated as such. If you search around long enough you'll find management/owners who respect you (assuing you respect them) and life will be wonderful for both parts of the team. Otherwise, be prepared to be minimized as much as possible.
Check out my lame java blog at www.javachopshop.com
Happens to be what I do, so I'm biased, but I've worked the other side.
When I was working salaried. "the customer" was not punished for wasting my time with stupidities. They had every waking hour of my time thanks to the fact that I received a salary, and their attitude didn't help my attitude toward them. That kind of thing will very quickly cause a confrontational attitude to spark up.
Now that I do this freelance, if someone wants me to hold their hand, they pay me 75-90 dollars per hour, plus a minimum of 1 hour travel time for it. Personally, I don't mind doing basic hand-holding at that kind of pay rate, and unless that customer happens to be quite rich (luckily, I have one or two of them) the prospect of handing over a small stack of $10 bills every hour tends to get them to work quite hard at trying to figure out how to do things right themselves. The fact that my time is being compensated pretty handsomely goes a long way to making me much more willing to be helpful, which in general (there are a few bad eggs who I just don't deal with without up-front money, or just not at all) causes my clients to be a lot more grateful. No corporate drone ever gave a damn that I fixed their problem. They were just angry with me for screwing it up in the first place somehow. I can't see myself ever willingly going back to the big corporate environment, where people can order me around just because I'm salaried. Irregularity of pay is more than made up for much higher satisfaction, on my and my customers part.
Ug. Your prof was/is a total schmo. The whole "he or she" thing drives me bonkers! Writing drivel like that is a sure fire way to cause your audience to lose track of what you're actually saying, and perhaps even count you as a class A moron.
The word "they", while not proper English, is a grammar tool used to overcome a deficiency in the English language - namely, that a singular, gender neutral pronoun doesn't exist. When I read "he or she", it's just plain awkward. Likewise, when I read the word "she" when not referring to a specific female, the stench of political correctness makes the sentence unbearable. "They", while not *proper* English, is the only non-distracting way to express a singular, gender neutral pronoun and I'd even go so far as to say it should ALWAYS be used in place of "he", "she", and "he or she" for this purpose. Everyone should write this way until whomever it is that decides what constitutes "proper English" gets tired of being beaten with a giant clue stick.
[% END RANT %]
As an executive, the biggest things on my mind about IT "professionals" is the attitude. How much is it to ask for people working for you to take a bath, put on some slacks (no jeans), nice shoes (not sneakers or sandals) ? How much is it to ask people who work for you to be serious about business ?
On hours, I had one person who I eventually got rid of made it routine to leave late Friday morning every weekend. The person did put in his hours. This person had a habit of missing Friday afternoon meetings especially being mandatory. My outlook as an executive, I need to make money for the business for it not only to survive but thrive. We now have a rule for all IT people that they will attend and participate in meetings especially the Friday afternoon meeting held at 4:00 pm, wear at a minimum business casual clothes, no casual Friday's either, good communications not only with customers but internally. Vacations require a minimum of 1 month notice and anything beyond a week off at a time requires special managerial permission. Even with all these rules, compensation for our IT people are above market rates so as to make it easier for them to follow the rules which is beneficial for business.
My position is we have to be serious about business, period. Part of it is following the given rules.
I have several relatives in the medical profession, 3 doctors, a nurse, an EMT and an orderly and they talk about PATIENTS ALL THE TIME!!!! They all tell some damn funny stories too. Lets be honest EVERY profession talks badly about its customers, its human nature.
The thing is, IT people don't care. They're arrogant, and slightly asocial, but also know full well they're essential. This might be harmful to the profession, but the profession can handle the damage.
it might have something to do with the current customer attitudes, namely that it's obviously the techs fault for anything that may happen.
some examples (being somewhat vague on purpose)
caller wants to know why our software screwed up his computer, please note, he hasn't even taken the cellophane wrapper off the box, much less installed the software.
caller is upset that the fax software hasn't sent his fax yet, he's been holding that piece of paper up to the monitor for half an hour already.
caller won't use any electronic device (including the phone) in the same room as the computer because caller doesn't want to risk the electronics getting infected by airborne computer viruses.
Caller whos network has been configured manually to have every computers network address set to the loopback address swears it's your fault his network won't do anything other than ping...
caller wants to know how to install software, he hasn't opened box, he hasn't turned on computer, infact, when directed to the power switch on the computer (that says on/off) he doesn't know how to turn it on. (didn't wait long enough to find out if it was plugged in)
caller (always a lawyer) wants help with an error, but can't read it because he's got display resolution set to maximum, and fonts set to smallest, which makes all the text too small to read, but won't change it because he insists he needs all that text/info onscreen at once. (What use is text too small to read?)
Caller deletes the Dos directory (old call) because he doesn't know what it is, so his current computer problems are obviously your fault, even though he hasn't installed your software yet.
Caller can't install administrative type software (needs ring 0 and access to system files) because he's on nt/xp user account that is heavily restricted, and not allowed to install any software at all.
Caller wants you to find and remove the 'undetectable virus' on his computer... (Think about it, if it's undetectable, how can he know about it, and how can anyone do anythign about it...)
Caller (always an admin) is at least 1000 miles away from computer, has no access (no remote access software, no body at work to call, etc), and is calling about an unspecified error a user told him he recieved the other day. (Zero details of the error or even the circumstances.) Then caller Demands that you fix it immediately.
The secretary in tears because the boss trashed his computer, told secretary to call tech support and get it fixed before end of day or get fired. Boss has left and turned off phone, can't be contacted. Computer has password. Boss never told secretary what password is. Techie can't do jack.
Those are just some minor examples I can sufficiently remove identification info from. Most of those happen repeatedly and regularly. With so many callers on the attack over their own antics, can you be surprised techies have a bad opinion of the common user? If they treated their doctors like this, there'd be a whole lot of dead people around.
The techies I know, want to help, they like being the hero. But extreme stupidity and constant attacks puts them on the defensive. Then they vent to each other about what happened. It's a laugh or scream situation, and laughing doesn't make you loose your voice.
It really is amazing how many of the issues callers/user have is due to simple PLBKAC (Problem Lies Between Keyboard And Chair).
Oh well, enough ranting for now.
... the roman numeral accountants saying only a fool would think nothing can have value (re: hindu arabic decimal system's zero place holder).
This does seem to be a problem among IT "professionals". I absolutely hated working in an department with IT "professionals" who felt they were superior to other employees who were not IT. Once upon a time in high school I was this way and going into college I was the same but I realized after a while the attitude had to go because I saw it in other people and saw how bad it was. I'm glad other people notice this trait, but I don't think its something that people are going to stop anytime soon.
Because many IT guys think that they know so much, regardless whether they're commenting on/slamming religion, Republicans, or users. Often the comments on Slashdot and/or Digg show they know very little actually about religion or politics, for example. Try studying a little, would you (which isn't listening to/reading people of like opinion...remember history, philosophy, etc.?).
I know the Open University refers to students as income units.
But really working on an IT support team i have been insulted by end users not understanding the basics of anything. Like SLA's they always want it NOW !. Every email is marked with URGENT and i have been shouted at down a phone because some silly girl said her computer was broken when all that had happened was that she had removed her outlook tool bar.
The trade tends to work a little of both ways. Treat your IT like shit and you will get refered for more training.
Slamming customers isn't acceptable in any other profession; doctors don't call their patients "meatbags" -- at least, not publicly.
About 15 years ago, I was jogging daily. I started having a pain in my ankle, not from an accident or anything, it just slowly started, so I stopped running, but the pain was getting worse every day, so I went to see the doctor. I get into his office, tell him the story and his response is, "Do I really need to tell you what you did to your ankle?"
That's more or less the kind of stuff this author is talking about. It happens in every profession. The fun part of the story is this: He says, "You've sprained your ankle, walk it off." Two days later I was using a crutch and the following day, two crutches. I go to see a podiatrist, tell her what happened and tell her about the first doctor. She says, "This other doctor, did he take x-rays?" "No." I reply. "I see. Did he have x-ray vision?", she asked. After x-rays, it was clear that I had torn a ligament in my ankle and was tearing a second one by walking on it.
But anyway, the point is simply it happens in every profession. It's probably a bit more exaggerated in IT, but the reasons for it, I think, are pretty obvious. First of all, many people in IT are geeks and got started early. They've always known more than others about IT stuff and they have a tendency to carry the same attitude of superiority in that area onto adulthood with them. Many probably weren't athletes or the "cool kids" in their schools and therefore have the feeling that their superiority in IT and the need for their skills is, as young adults, their time has finally come to "get even", so to speak.
Comparing this to a doctor is simply apples and oranges. To be a doctor, you need to get pretty damn good grades all through college, pass the MCAT, and then do 4 years of med school and 3-7 years of residency, depending on the specialty. Medical schools tend to look for a certain degree of maturity in candidates and if they don't have it coming in, they tend to get it as they go through. It's a completely different world than what "normal" people go through and thus, it's going to tend to produce much more mature people.
As for other fields, people tend to enter at a much lower level and tend to need maturity to move up. IT is just different. They'll take just about anyone with the skills. IT people do gain experience at their jobs, but they tend to move up faster, or they move out. Maturity usually has less to do with advancement than skill, unlike other jobs where maturity is often integral to advancement. Maturity in IT gets you into management which is where a lot of geeks don't want to go.
This does not mean they should not use computers, just they they don't use them like us. Other people have no care about their car's engine and how it works. This does not mean they do not need to travel.
True, but it does mean that they are unqualified for any job that requires a lot of computer work, just like the people who don't care how a car works are unqualified to work as a driver. You wouldn't hire a mechanic who doesn't want to understand how a torque wrench works, or a pilot who doesn't care what the throttle levers do. Why would anyone hire an office worker who can't be bothered to figure out the basics of Windows and MS Office?
0 1 - just my two bits
Some might think I have an attitude problem for it, but personally I see it as different values. Geeks (who are drawn to IT) value the truth and no sugar coatings involved
A proverb for both you and your users: "The difference between ignorance and stupidity is that ignorance is correctable by effort and education."
One of the functions of IT should be to train users. If you don't work to train users, or are ineffective at it, that is generally a sign of stupidity (or willful ignorance — I see no difference there)... but it may be the of users regarding computers or of the IT person regarding training users. Remeber that a carrot-and-stick approach works better than just a stick. Training a user is never harder than training a cat, and seldom harder than training a puppy.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
The customer doesn't know the value of the service they are getting. At least when you replace a muffler they have some idea of what you did and what the part does. This lack of knowledge leads to bad behavior that gets transferred to the Technician. Also, many consumers think that if they complain they get free stuff. If not for free stuff, they think it's necessary as a bargaining chip to get further support or service. IT is also less well paid then before. I personally don't feel obligated to be an emotional punching bag for less than McDonalds shift manager wages.
The right attitude is one that rewards good customer behavior with great service and bites back when a customer wants too much or really just wants to fight. No one should put up with bad behavior on either side of the fence.
...the supposedly above average intelligence of IT people cannot seem to grasp the idea that almost all software, operating systems, and computer technology in general is incredibly poorly designed.
No one should have to know as much about how computers function as any of us do (slashdot folk) to do their work, word processing, e-mail, browsing the web, etc.
When I started doing small time IT consulting in high school I found clients really liked if you would spend some time with them explaining how technology emerged and it's initial simpler forms and their evolution into the more "robust" applications they use today.
Think about how simple our first computers were in the scope of what they could do. Pre-internet, some pre-gui. It's damned easy to learn what will happen if you do something a certain way. There was only 1 way, there were limited options in software, no one even thought of using their computer for 1/10th of the things we do today.
The sheer complexity is daunting. Look at MS Word 2003, 2000. Now look at Word 2.0. Or the DOS word processors that predate my word processing needs.
Software is stupid, users are uninformed, poorly trained, and most IT people barely understand the concepts they talk about so eagerly themselves or try to "explain" to people.
Sleep is for the weak.
it's interesting to read slashdot responses that instantly take offense: "yeah, but this one gal, i told her to send a copy of the disk and she made a copy on the copy machine. How can I compete with that?...." You are surely proving the point, but I don't think you even understand that you are. It people are so immersed in their exceptional intelligence that they often lack even basic introspection. Just look as /. It sounds like a tech high school lunch room. Lots of noise and juvenile jokes. Lots of opinion without a basis in fact. Lots of B.O. and petty theft. And once in awhile, a few technical glimmers that might be useful.
I told the users at a small company I use to work for that I could fix anything they broke, so try things. It didn't matter, they would still ask for help with everything because they could. I work for a better company with a higher caliber of employee now. very few "lazy questions". Perhaps the management of the users is partly to blame for ITs frustration? /I treat users like customers because without them, I don't have a job.
Please do not define an entire industry by its arseholes. Many of us in the IT industry are actually interested in and care for the people we work with and the company we work for (to varying degrees based on the individuals and the company). I know I don't draw a box around me and proclaim that everyone else is an idiot, just the actual idiots -- and, no, computer literacy is not the way I work that out. I'm sorry if you get confused by our "jargon". I do my best to avoid using it, but sometimes that just what stuff is called. By the same token, you shouldn't feel embarrassed if you don't understand our job. I'm sure there are parts of your job I don't understand. Heck, there's heaps of stuff in other parts of the IT industry that I don't understand.
Now, can we please stop focussing on our differences and start looking for our similarities?
You go into your doctors office and he says you need to have a procedure immediatly to remove some part of your body. You might consult one more doctor but at no point do you actually truely question the actions he is about to take even if it means removing a piece of your body.
On the other hand you go to get your computer fixed. The IT person tells you that your computer is slow and cant do anything because you have 39 viruses and some untold amounts of spyware on your computer. He suggests that you should backup all your documents and let him wipe the system clean. You disagree with him and tell him to install more ram to fix your computer because of an article you read in the paper. He installs it begrugingly and you return a week later having the same problems and stating that the ram is bad and he needs to replace it. rinse and repeat.
The reason IT people are nasty at times is because everyone believes they are an expert when it comes to computers. It is somewhat insulting that everyday someone will tell you to do something that you explicitly told them was a bad idea.
Never could figure out why my girl liked my bitch tits, then I found out she was a lesbian.
Slamming customers isn't acceptable in any other profession
I've never thought that the air transport industry calling passengers SLF was terribly polite.
On the other hand, the technology has been getting much more user friendly, what with GUI admin. tools and high school kids poking around with Linux systems, when UNIX and its kin used to be the sole responsibility of mainframe support staffs. Today's IT staffs have to deal with a range of users, from those who know nothing, through those who think they know something, but really don't, to users who really know what they are talking about and only need IT support because its company policy or they have better things to do than dig around in the network closet.
Have gnu, will travel.
What about the general disregard for our dept by them? Things like " I know you told us not to do this, but..." and "we need X for a meeting in 10 minutes. How long ago did I know I would need it then? About 2 days ago. I'm sorry that you have to drop what you are doing and scramble, but I really need this right now." (that last sentence RARELY is spoken)
HokieForever
Exactly. Here on Slashdot we see a lot of this firsthand... We've seen and heard the jokes made at the expense of clueless users. We know where to buy the insulting t-shirts. But that doesn't mean everyone else out there is kind and pleasant to their customers and clients.
I used to teach at a Community College...and the professors ranted about the clueless administrators who had no idea how much time it took to teach various subjects, or the effort that went into grading finals, or how useless the assorted meetings were. We used to chuckle at the students who missed dozens of classes, failed exams left and right, never turned in work...and then showed up the last week of class to find out how they could raise their grades.
I used to work at Electronics Boutique...and we'd all make fun of the poor customers who didn't know that GAME X was obviously better than GAME Y - regardless of what genre you actually enjoyed playing. We'd laugh at people who asked if they could run some bleeding edge game on their 5-year-old Dell. We'd patiently explain, while carefully suppressing laughs of derision, that Playstation 2 games wouldn't work on a regular Playstation.
Lawyers most certainly make unpleasant comments about their clients. My mother was a Lawyer, and I heard plenty of comments made around the dinner table. My father was an Optometrist, and frequently said things about his patients as well. I could point out various friends of the family as well...Librarians, Financial Planners, Architects...they all had difficult clients, and less-than-flattering things to say about them.
Okay, okay, go back to your cool Flash screensavers. It's not your fault you can't read text we place everywhere you click, like message boxes, big warning boxes, often with sounds and icons, readmes, etc. It's not your fault you can't do what you're told literally hundreds of times, like not using Internet Explorer and not downloading crap like browser toolbars or screensavers. It's not your fault you can't resist clicking on the "Delete" menu item. So, software engineers are the only engineers who insult their customers, huh? Well, I don't know of any other sector where customers intend to operate expensive, complex machinery without reading a simple manual, with the utmost childish attitude. The article says that cars are simple... though you are required to assist to classes and pass theory and practice exams before you can be trusted a car (in most countries). Perhaps if we required that kind of license to use a computer, we wouldn't have these problems.
I was about to say 13256278887989457651018865901401704640, but it appears this number is private property.
Sounds like they have it backwards - every place I worked, it is the users who insult the IT folks as mere "techies" while they have the "important" jobs to do (and get paid better, have better benefits, shorter hours, etc.)
Danm Straight.
May the Maths Be with you!
I'm only in my first year of law school, and already many of my classmates have adopted a "smarter-than-thou" attitude toward staff, undergraduates around campus, and the world in general. Just because lawyers don't wear smarmy t-shirts doesn't mean they're not insufferably arrogant toward the "unelite."
Wait until grades come out. Unless your law school is heavy into grad inflation, a lot of those people will be getting a rude awakening when they find out that law school tends to grade on a much lower curve than they were probably used to in undergrad.
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/07/23/212925 0&tid=133
So what? When people stop needing me, I won't have a job anymore. Until then, I could give a rat's ass about the "credibility of the profession."
I don't really like working in IT, anyway. I just happen to be good at it, get paid quite well, and don't have to suck up to anybody. I'd much rather do my programming on my own time, on projects that interest me. Maybe someday there won't be a place for assholes who get the job done like me, I'll go do something else, and I can return to those happy days when computers were just a hobby.
Then again, we still have plumbers and mechanics, even though people complain about being screwed by those people all the time.
Game... blouses.
Look at it this way - these lazy (or perhaps overworked) employees *increase* your demand. Think about it for a second and perhaps your attitude might change a bit.
shows how much he knows. publicly yes, just like in IT, but privately? when you got some cockhead client you can't stand, you have to vent somewhere.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
(Same as parent post by Zorb750, only with paragraph breaks added to my taste.)
I've been in the IT field for a number of years as an independent. I work as a semi-resident IT person for some companies on some days, generally one or two four hour days per week, and for other companies on an on-call basis. I've never seen the need to actually insult someone, though I must admit to having been less than diplomatic at times (lectures usually). Unfortunately, the world is fraught with those who do not care what they do, that what they do is stupid, that there are others who may be affected by their stupid actions, and the like.
Let me relate a story to you, from personal experience. I used to do the (company is now out of business) IT work for mortgage broker for a few years a while back. This is the story of one day I was there. The day starts with a telephone call that of the computers there is "like popping up all the time". I answered with some or other dry humor remark which now escapes me, regarding the computer physically popping up off of the desk. I have never understood why people speak in such an idiotic manner. They flaunt their vagueness, their lack of knowledge. The computer doesn't pop up! Perhaps a message is appearing, or maybe an advertisement. Maybe the optical drive keeps opening for no reason. Or maybe it's turning itself on when it shouldn't be. The point is, I don't know. Different stupid people use the same phrase to mean different things, none of them quite correct.
It turned out that a message of some sort was appearing. The person who called me, the same person who saw the message, didn't remember what it was. He didn't remember if it was an advertisement, a warning notice, a network message. "I don't know, I just closed it when it came up. I don't know what it said. It's happened a few times this morning" was his description of the message. The conversation with him was useless, so I scheduled a time to come in, even though I was free for the entire day, for later that afternoon. Upon arriving, I discovered that the computer had a couple of pieces of adware on it. Nothing serious, nothing that I could qualify describing as Spyware. The computer took about half an hour to totally straighten out. (Don't forget, this is before the days of this stuff really embedding it in your system!)
I found that it all came from a multitude of screen savers and desktop additions (useless toys) that he had downloaded from a website which offered that sort of thing. By website, I don't mean something like Digital Blasphemy or Shifted Reality, who are totally trustworthy. It was something along the lines of "freescreensaver.com" or "freedesktopgarbage.com" type sites. I explained what had caused the problems, and the repeated advertisements, to the user. He claimed to understand.
After finishing up everything, I was speaking to the boss/manager/whatever who was in charge, explaining what happened, approximately what I did to rectify the situation, and was just about to present the bill when I saw out of the corner of my eye that the idiot user was downloading something or other. I walked over to investigate, and found that it was some other kind of junkware, supposedly a desktop background, but packaged as an exe file. I reached over and depressed the ESC key (cancels download under Explorer or old versions of Netscape), then reiterated my earlier mini-lecture about downloading any kind of program from non trustworthy sites, and pointed out that it was a program, not a picture he was downloading. His responses were "Yeah I know but it's free! And it's only a picture so who cares?" I said "Great. Well, my services aren't," and pointed out that it was a program, not just a picture as he had stated. His explanation was "Yeah but you just open it and it installs itself for you."
I settled the bill with the boss and left. The user was there for less than two more months before bei
Yes, I agree 100%. However, for some the lower influence and payment is less of a problem than bad teeth from teeth grinding or gastric ulcer from permanent anger.
And a 200% uplift in wage for a first class developer with first class people skills might be justified. Unfortunately I never got to know someone like that. This does not mean that they don't exist, but that they are rare. People I know are either top in solving technical problems, but rather introverted, or top in communication skills, but at best average when it comes to technical problems.
I work in IT. Relatively large company ( AT&T )
:| I've seen folks who try to push around the trackball and proclaim the ' mouse ' is broken.( Um. . . no, don't move the whole thing just the ball on top there. . . . )
If an attitude exists in the IT department, it's possible it's due to frustration. Most of the IT folks ( emphasis on MOST ) are very computer literate. Many of the jobs of today REQUIRE at least some basic knowledge of how to operate a computer. Where the frustration comes into play is when the IT folks are called over and over again to solve what would be considered basic issues. Usually, by the same folks over and over and over again. Nothing I love more than a user on the other end of the phone that, when asked about the application they use, states " I don't know, I just click the icon and it works. . . "
I know of a tech who has backups of backups of BACKUPS ( read that 3-4 copies ) of each and every file on his machine and wonders why the disk is always full.
The IT folks are usually understaffed, work stupid amounts of hours, and are usually managed by someone who couldn't SPELL " IT " without spell-check or a flashcard. Okay! We want you to take a call from the customer, fix their problem, then put what you found into no fewer than three different databases ( well of COURSE they're not linked, why would we do something like that ? ) day in and day out, and maintain a cheery attitude the entire time. Why isn't project XYZ finished yet ? We need someone to go over to office X and fix a system over there. I know it isn't our ' job ' per se, but he's a friend of mine and I told him we could help out ' just this once '.
I think MY attitude stems from the line of thinking that working for a company such as AT&T that one of your prerequisite skill sets would be the ability to use a computer. The ability to LEARN how to use your applications without my handholding you through it on a daily basis, and to have at least enough common sense to check the power cables when your system / monitor doesn't turn on. The snap to know that while yes it's possible the port on the switch *might* be bad, the greater likelyhood is the vendor ( lowest bidder of course ) doesn't know how to pin out a standard ethernet cable. Yes I know the correct color code, no I'm not going to do it for you. The vendor made a few thousand dollars to show up, install the equipment and terminate those cables. I suggest you call that overpaid vendor and have him test the cables.
!@#$%&!+@(#&@%#~+
Cherry attitude my a$$
Do you want people to behave like professionals? Treat them like professionals.
Pay a living wage. Provide a work environment that is at least as comfortable as what other professionals in other disciplines receive. Require reasonable hours, and do not make arbitrary schedule changes. Delegate authority to your IT professionals and accept and respect their decisions. Give them the incentive and genuine opportunity to have an ownership stake in the corporation. Hire adults, and be assured that you can ask them to behave like adults and hold them to well-specified performance standards.
If you treat a segment of your staff as second-class citizens, you should expect them to perform accordingly, and you should expect their loyalty to the organization and their concern for the bottom line to be in accordance as well.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Anyone whos ever worked any kind of helpdesk role is aware of the type of user who has a self inflicted problem who demands service and basically adbuses the person on the end of the phone. People like that, I call a meatbag. Other professions dont have to stand for abuse, why do we?
Computers aren't dangerous. If they were small, under-the-desk Nuclear Power plants or something that required a licence to operate and could likely kill somebody if not operated and maintained properly (like a car), IT would be treated with much more respect and be taken for granted and there'd be less hurt feelings.
But computers aren't dangerous. They're mostly not even really neccesary. Thus a friend of mine has me, for over three years, warning him time and time again to tell me before he buys a laptop (it would've been a Mac or a PC laptop with Linux set up by me). So my friend goes out this summer and buys a laptop from a super-market special offer with Windows XP preinstalled. It refuses to work with the WiFi I set up for his wife at home (and works flawlessly with the mac mini I had her buy).
How in earth should I restrain myself from gritty comments and side-remarks whenever he goes into a lament over how complicated computers are?
If computers were litte Nuclear Plants this simly wouldn't happen. I personally am slowly moving my business to IT consulting and going around, wearing more management like clothes and talking to people. I get less grunt work, people listen and pay better, are more thankfull and I get to pull some padawan geeks into some neat projects and can keep the heat of their backs. People listen to things that are dangerous and/or expensive. It's simple actually: If the heat you're getting and the responsablity you're carrying doesn't match the pay, don't do the job.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
...but some doctors do think the way of "You're Not Sick - You're Stupid".
I agree; doctors should go to every funeral of each dead patient they lay eyes on. However, if they had ever had contact with the patient, they should stand with the family at the visitation, and meet all the past friends and distant relatives that come through to grieve.
--
WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
Absolutely yes!
Users frequently do not know even the most basic of things like, for example, needing to type in their password twice when changing it.
Moreover, the culture amongst users is such that they don't think they need to know basic things to do with using their computer - and they don't want to know.
Then they contact helpdesks with the most inane of fault descriptions, such as:
"It won't work".
Well... WHAT is not working!!!
Computer users should be issued "certified user" licenses, specifying which applications they are certified to use BEFORE they are allowed to use a computer by themselves, and they should be required to re-certify every time their software is upgraded!
Users are morons.
IT people are morons.
Doctors, lawyers and other professionals are morons.
They're all human.
They're all morons.
See how simple that was?
The article is right, of course. IT people have lousy attitudes - that's why they ARE IT people. The article thus puts the cart before the horse. You don't get into computers if you're a "people person". It's that simple. You DAMN SURE don't LOVE computers if you're a "people person." You like hardware because it's more reliable than people (unless you designed the hardware, of course - another major IT industry problem), and you like software because you can mold it and force it to do what you want (unless you designed it, of course - another problem with the IT industry.)
Face it, folks - the IT industry sucks - just like every other industry, if you bother to ask anybody working in those industries.
Welcome to the real world.
Chimpanzees. Jesus Baron von Fucking Christ!
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
...in terms of internal IT support, the author's comparisons don't stand up.
Using his medical example, here is a valid comparison: the doctor has a colleague working in the same hospital, who is not a doctor but a member of the overall team nonetheless (nurse, physio, receptionist). This person does not possess the proper skills to work in a hospital (despite claiming to have them in their resume and interview), and as a result lets the whole team down.
This person rightfully deserves contempt.
Let's assume that you work for a large company. And word gets out that IT will support your non-standard configuration. Then others will demand that IT supports their non-standard configuration. Then they are spending so much time figuring out what is going on with others that they don't have time to support you, let alone the work that everybody needs to be done.
I believe the two parties in this discussion are using "support" in two different ways. The semi-centralized enterprise-IT I work in has what I consider a less black-and-white and more varied many-colors approach.
There are black and white cases locally. Yes, there are about a dozen (total; three per model year, mandatory upgrade at the end of four years) "one true" hardware and software configurations, centrally managed. If you use those, anything that goes wrong is the fault of the central IT department. At the other extreme are also three people using geniune BeOS machines; central IT provides an internal-only Be-users mailing list for them to help each other, hands each user their own complete security audit paperwork to fill out and defend (triennially, around a hundred pages or so), monitors (like all machines) for signs of highly abnormal network traffic, and turns off the nearest managed network port (and will admit to doing so in response to a phone query) if they appear to have been hacked.
Mostly, cases fall in between. Some software is available via a central license pool, and they'll look into why the installer doesn't work. In most areas Central IT have expert groups knowlegable about the OS/hardware/software to try to help; they will at least listen to trouble reports on anything (except those aforementioned three BeBox weirdos) and make general suggestions. However, Central IT do draw the line; "You need to use a different Machine/Peripheral/OS/SoftwarePackage" (pick one or more) can be a perfectly acceptable solution from their point of view.
Just because a user admits he has a BarFoo network card instead of the "standard configuration" FooBar brand card should not be an excuse for IT to immediately blame the problem on the card. Several kinds of problem may be independent of the card ("Is the cable plugged in to both the wall and the computer? Does the network card have any LEDs? Are they lit? Is it shown in the Hardware Manager Snapin/Apple System Profile?"), and can often be solved trivially... provided the IT department helpdesk isn't mostly staffed by flowchart-script-reading humanoids. When policy dictates it, sure the IT people ought to be able to require a change to the One True Configuration... but only if they can demonstrate why no lesser change is adequate.
Expecting every weird configuration of software and hardware to be completely supported is ludicrous, but expecting a cookie-cutter configuration to be sufficient to every user's requirements is oft equally so.
//Information does not want to be free; it wants to breed.
>Knowing how to use a computer is like learning how to drive:
.PIF file?
Or is it closer to learning to play a musical instrument? That used to be expected in society, at least in the upper classes. The complexity is similar. Sometimes there's even a similar degree of motor coordination. Hold a finger in place too long on a musical instrument and you get a wrong note. Hold a finger on the shift key too long and "rm *.BAK" turns into "rm *>BAK".
Or is it like being a test pilot? Is today's software really much more reliable than an experimental jet? Test pilots, according to _The Right Stuff_, developed a psychological defense mechanism of blaming every crash on pilot error, so they could believe they would stay alive because they were so skilled and careful. Is it the same psychology when we claim it's obvious that nobody should click on a
Because IT is such a new profession, a lot of end-users I have to deal with often cannot correctly scale what exact services we provide. For example, I'm in an administration role, yet because of a few years studying IT, everyone assumes I'm the authority of IT and nothing is above my knowledge. However, this attitude becomes sour when people expect me to have a simple usb-stick interface with a laptop and it has to auto-configure. "Maybe someone else should do it" and "I thought it was easier than that" are the kind of slamming and put-down comments I face on a regular basis, so why don't we return fire to these morons? Remember, there are 10 people that understand binary - I say, rub it in their faces if they cannot educate themselves.
"...and it's debatable whether IT qualifies as a profession..."
That one's at the top of the second page. As soon as I saw it I knew I was reading the work of an idiot.
This is not reasoned input from someone at the receiving end of I.T. support, it's just another weasel on the web trying to get some attention. It is only masquerading as insight.
That employer is fucking retarded. Lack of social skill is no guarantee for intellectual capabilities or technical skills.
"Progress comes from the intelligent use of experience."
There seems to be a trade-off between people with IT skills and those that rely on them. The IT professional *can* often think the users they manage are not the smartest bunch, but they're not asked to be. That's not to say non-IT people are dumb. Quite the opposite. An IT professional has dedicated their time to figuring out how some aspect(s) of a computer works. A non-IT professional has used that same time to do other things such as develop their people and business skills and the like.
On the other hand, *some* non-IT savvy computer users believe that IT geeks, although having the ability to 'magically' fix problems with their computer/software, don't have people skills. This is a death sentence for an IT professional trying to be sociable and a point of view which needs addressing. I've heard a running joke that states it's better to tell someone you're unemployed rather than to say you're a programmer.
I'm a developer in a position where my boss has pushed me to talk to our customers directly by being email and phone support. Over time this has made it obvious to me that it is VERY important to put yourself in the client's position regardless of how frustratingly simple to fix an issue could be. What someone with minimal to no computer experience is seeing on their screen can often be like being seated in a commercial jumbo jet pilot seat and being asked to fly it. Any button or switch could send the plane hurtling to it's doom.
One (of many) possible cause(s) of these stereotypes is the development of the GUI and GUI design. A GUI for an IT pro and a non-IT pro are two very different things. *Most* IT pros will look at a window full of buttons, toggles, etc. and simply say that it has all the controls it needs. A non-IT savvy user will look at the same screen and instantly be daunted by the complexity of the controls. Ultimately this means that when designing a GUI, a particular user base was not catered for. The light switch example is a good one. Just by looking at it one can discern how it is to be used. A problem with GUI design is how do you design a GUI which compels a non-IT savvy user to press a button the keyboard or drag and click the mouse. Those who do not think this is an issue I invite them to develop a touch screen interface for non-IT savvy users. The moment you decide to cater only for a limited user base you lose.
Is what this amounts to. It's his book and with the poor references and shoddy logic of his hypothesis I wonder why /. is posting this. As the parent article catagorized - troll -. And I'm completely unsuprised to see that he's a former software development director, who are frequently the least knowledgeable of anyone in the IT profession. And to whit, check out his references! The link that argues in favor of the idea that being an IT is not a profession attacks software development, his own profession.
Is this a case of a self-loathing closet IT? I think so.
The referenced article on what a profession is claims that "Widely available initial education is just beginning to emerge." in the case of programming. Hrmmmm...My old high school has been teaching computer programming for over 15 years. Every decent JC college and above that I know of has been teaching computer programming, networking, and relevant topics for at least 15 years, many for more than 20 or even 30. It's this kind of blatant lies or horribly poor research in journalism that creates "credible" references for guys like this, who if you read his site has only an email address as an indication to what his name is - Dan.
Dan, you're a sycophantic liar, a lazy whiner and all around flaming bag of feces. Although I agree with your other post on your "website" for your "book" that no one else seems to have heard of, this article is truly showing the worst facet of humanity save for evil-mass-murdering-dictators.
You start your article as if you don't work in the IT industry, place yourself in the realm of users, and then admit at the very end that you were formerly employed in the IT industry. As if this was the clincher on the validity of your statement, but you submitted this to Slashdot. Were you smoking PCP or something better? I'd hope you were at least on a week long cracksmoking binge to be this delusional.
I guess that complete lack of credible and accurate research is outside of the realm journalism, what was I thinking.
Everyone here has pointed out the obvious flaws in your "article". Yes IT's are arrogant. Yes there are plenty of them who have no reason to be arrogant, but you relate sysadmins to programmers, as if the programmers provide support for their software. This is usually not the case. Unless you're working with custom scripted software, which happens in many workplaces but they're certainly not in the majority, then your IT staff is NOT supporting code that they created and implemented. In fact, even in cases where custom in house software is created the programmers are often not the poor suckers out on the floor instructing their peers on how to use YOUR shitty software.
Remember when you used to be in the IT field? YOU lead teams of people who coded. Do you think that Dilbert just appeared one day and everyone thought it was funny? No, it came about by years and years of programmers being pushed, coerced, forced, enticed and even held at gunpoint by people like you, Microsoft, and other bloatware producing, deadline focused retards. Sure, you address the problems of overwhelming deadlines, but you whitewash the massive problem by placing blame in the court of the programmers and claim that they just don't understand.
So what you're saying is that programmers are largely to blame for poor code because they're lazy, incompetent, or cheating. Hell, all of the above.
Hmmmm...Let's lock Dan in a room of EA programmers and their ilk from other similar companies that use contracts and the law to turn good programmers into the Ben-Hurs and Spartacuses of their time....And let him make a blanket, deceitful statement like that.
Dan, you're almost the worst kind of person. You lie and cause the same negative emotions you claim to want to fix. You and your kind create problems that you then shift blame for to other innocent parties because you can't handling being wrong or in a negative spotlight.
We'll always make fun of you D
And that's why I use the 'two year' rule. The two year rule boils down to "If my two year old can do it, and you cannot be taught with very little effort, then you are not competent, and should probably be institutionalized immediately." If my two year old cannot do it, then we might be in a gray area. Now, I have a very bright two year old, but even the brightest two year old should not be smarter than a very very dumb adult. How did my two year old get his computer skills? I put him in front of one, and let him click on things until he knew what they did.
It is poor management, uneducated users, and unrealistic expectations which damages IT.
When will managers understand how to work with knowledge workers?
When will users learn the basics of how to operate their tools?
They're using their grammar skills there.
IT monkeys are a dime a dozen.
I seriously doubt that Asperger's is nearly as prevalent in the IT field as jackasses with bad attitudes are.
Woman
becuase most of em have not been laid in.......... carry the four .....
/.
so yeah we just have a bunch of bitter peers working in the IT industry.... I am sure that would not apply to anyone reading
Doctors are pretty condescending.
Nowadays, people expect pills. Pills to fix everything.
So, one day, I was in front of that specialist, and he chicken-scratches me a prescription.
So I ask him what is it. What it does, how it works.
He was befuddled.
-- You can tell me, I have a master's degree in science, so I'll understand (better than Joe Sixpack anyways).
THEN, he explained me what his pills would do (they were't much effective, I healed myself).
* * *
Fortunately, it's not always like that. Once, I was having glasses made, and the oculist proposed me a custom-crafted lens. He started to make a diagram and explain the light rays through the lens, and when I talked about refraction indices, his eyes lighted-up and he obviously was delighted to meet a client who understand his work.
It's nice of you to think of me, but the summary says it all. Blame the user is a bad policy, usually resorted to by people who own crappy software.
About the only thing that I can add to this is that non free software is hostile to users by it's very nature and Microsoft is the leading example. From the very beginning, the M$ mantra has been, "pay me or your computer won't work." After you have given them your money and your computer still does not do what you want, what is M$ supposed to say? They usually insult you until it's time for you to give them more money, at which time they promise the "new" version fixes the problems of the old version. If they were able to fix the problems and everything just worked, there would be no reason for you to buy another one. Exactly how bad things are was presented a few weeks back.
Amazingly enough, most users and IT people have realized the source of their problems. Most IT people I deal with understand the limitations of the software they work with and know how it frustrates users. They are also happy to help me out with non M$ software and are generally impressed by it's capabilities. I know things they don't and I don't have the problems most of their users do, that makes me fun to deal with. Outside of the Slashdot Astroturf, in real life that is, I've only run into one fanboy in the last five years or so. The rest of them are probably more fed up with M$ and other bullies than the users themselves are.
Mass adoption of free software will cure a lot of these problems. Free software is more consistent, less buggy and easier to fix and customize than non free. It's amazing how nice people can be when you give them a choice of applications to use.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I agree with the parent totally, there is no one industry that has a monopoly of this sort of attitude, but to bring it back to the topic at hand:
Speaking as a member of this technical group, I can honestly say that there are three major groups of client. The honestly clueless, the willfully ignorant and the technically savvy.
I personally enjoy working with the honestly clueless, as they admit they don't know much, and are willing to learn the things they don't know. I don't cop abuse or arrogance from them, and we work together to solve the problem.
I also don't mind working with the technically savvy, as they often have pinpointed the problem, but don't have the access to actually fix the issue.
The willfully ignorant are the problem. They often create their own problems, and then refuse to listen to the solution. They think that they know better than the technician, which in 99% of ALL cases is simply incorrect. They are almost always abusive and condescending to technical staff, and spend much of their time not only making our lives miserable, but also putting road blocks in front of us when we try to fix things for them.
Courtesy is a two way street, and while I agree that it is lacking from the IT industry as a whole, to say that we are the only ones guilty of it is very short sighted.
the geeks are right.
/. but if they did, I'd tell them, ask your IT guy where you can learn more about to software or fuction you're using so you don't have to call him every 5 minutes. I guarantee you he'll help.
the article's analogy of a car's pedal's changing function is faulty.
the driver would have been tested and licensed to use those pedals by a driving instructor.
computer use requires no license but that doesn't make it easy.
if you want to use a computer and use this software, then you have to learn how! \
that is what is necessary to be a user that doesn't have to call IT every 5 minutes.
You must familiarize yourself with the tools you're being paid to use.
How would you feel if your plumber asked you how your toilet worked?
How would you feel if your lawn guy asked how to use the lawn mower?
you wouldn't blame the manufacturer of a band saw for making the controls different from another manufacturer.
you also wouldn't use a band saw without learning how first.
though, a computer can't take off your fingers, your refusal to think and learn what the IT guy already has annoys him.
not that users read
They're using their grammar skills there.
This whole article out to be modded flame bait. Just like this post.
So I can be in a supposedly social environment and get barraged with questions from the cow-orkers about all the computer problems they're having at home, or with their iPods, or printers, or DSL, or what they should buy for their daughter at college, or whatever, under the guise of a friendly conversation. What fun.
Chalk me up as an IT guy who specifically avoids the communal dining joys of the lunch/break room and other social opportunities because I personally need and frankly deserve that hour of decompression while I'm chewing my cud -- off the clock, so to speak. I know it looks stand-offish, or whatever, but for Christ's sake, I just need to single-task while I eat and have a coffee without turning those wheels for you like a trained seal.
Yes, I have an attitude problem. But my own customers continue to support it. I work long hours, sleep little, drink a whole lot of coffee. I get bitchy, I complain, I rail against the tech paths my customers force me down at times. I push the line as to what is reasonable, and appologize when I step over it.
;-)
But I'm a really solid coder - I do documentation and crap like that and deliver complete, secure and professional programs. I work efficiently, and bill my clients fairly.
They keep asking me back, even with my surely attitude. This does not seem like an uncommon paradigm within the elite of the tech industry. Look at Gates, Balmer, Jobs and Ellison. They are all complete assholes with problem-child attitudes. Its part of the industry. And no I didn't bother to RTFA.
Horns are really just a broken halo.
Or...
"Thanks to the notion of dysfunction, every zipperhead in this country can tap himself with a Freudian wand and go from failed frog to misunderstood prince."
--Dennis Miller
in any profession where people deal with the general public, be assured that these professionals are saying exactly the same kinds of things about you (as in the diary submitter) to each other that we say about them when we fix their self-induced problems. You got high chloresterol brought on by too many McBurgers and fries and you keep going back to your doctor to get some pills? Guess what? That doctor is probably calling you "that idiot" and "meathead" and even less flattering things about you the minute you walk out of the examining room. And he'll be just as right as you are when you slam him because he installed Yet Another Malware-Loaded screensaver on his box.
The only difference with respect to "public" exposure is that you hang out on IT-oriented blogs so you consider this "in public". Go find some medical professional-oriented blogs if you want to find out what these professionals think of you.
This is a good thing. We WANT our professionals to blow off steam at each other, because we won't like the results if they blow it off at us... they don't want us telling them "Open a DOS prompt. Type format C: and then type "Y" and all your computer troubles will be over" any more than we want them "accidentally" screwing up our prescription meds.
One doesn't become a professional anything because we want to kiss the asses of our clients all the time. Anybody who's any good is going to get pissed off at our clients / fellow workers who don't have our specialized skills... and they're going to be pissed off at us because we don't get it right in their areas of expertise in a way that causes them unnecessary trouble. There's some reason why IT pros should have any more humility than they do?
And yes, you are an idiot. That doesn't mean the rest of us are going to follow your lead.
Though the biggest idiot here is whoever thought your article worth posting on slashdot.
Tech Public Policy stuff
Comment removed based on user account deletion
...A physical plant needs management too, companies have janitors, cleaning people, and general maintenance staff on hand (though in a large, multi-company office building, it's usually covered at a building level and so you may not see it directly in your company). They use plumbers, electricians, etc all the time. It *is* constantly maintained. Try living with unmaintained office building for a couple months and see how well you do. In large buildings, it's not even out of house (a state which IT may be reaching in some cases btw), they have a full maintenance staff on hand, not on call the way you have with your plumber.
"goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
He was talking about law school, dipshit.
Don't you have a culture of super-condescending Doctors over there in the US like you do in the UK?
Not sure how they are in the UK... I never had a problem with doctors in the US (in a large western-states HMO that I used up until about age 30). As a young adult, I could usually get an explanation out of most doctors and nurse practitioners, but then I never had anything too serious. But, I've always known how to ask the "right" questions to indicate my capacity for understanding the answer.
As an expat in Asia now, I am shocked by the ego of doctors towards their countrymen. Except for the youngest doctors, they seem to despise any patient who would even dare to ask what a medicine is for, and they hand out antibiotics like candy. They seem a little more willing to talk to foreigners if they can get over any nerves about communication.
My theory is that it relates to the heavy classism in Asia. It is my belief that there is still more classism in the UK than the US, so perhaps this would also be an influence there?
You can't compare a doctor to a tech.
;)
The things people stop doing to their bodies when they are kids, like shove peanuts up their nose, people do to their computers their whole lives!
One bit ii the article showed me why this guy has a problem.
He complained about the hundreds of error messages. The only thing that could be is Internet Explorer.
Where if you actually read the mesages ever you would notice the little check box to never show this kind of message again.
That would take care of 95% of the "errors" you see. And then you would be able to get the real error messages.
It shouldn't be hard to figure out "The security certificate for this page has expired, would you like to proceed anyway?" for a trusted site, and "Would you like to install the Hooters Hooters Hooters! internet speed booster?"
But that's all too much of a hastle isn't it?
He was right, Select * from users where clue > 0 isn't funny.
Select * from users where clue > 0
0 records found!
is freaking hillarious though!
That coming from a Geek site, you want more behind closed doors than that?
The internet is our behind closed doors, everyone else keeps coming in anyway!
He corrected himself. It wasn't someone else being an ass and trying to make GP look stupid.
look! it's a bird, it's a plane, it's....a girl? yes, a girl browsing Slashdot on Linux
It's mainly our frustration with the people we have to admin for. I've had my share of support work. In my experience, you run into the first person you want to kill after no longer than a month, on average.
How do you feel when someone belittles your work as "pushing buttons and drinking coffee, if you're not surfing"? How do you feel when someone makes the same frigging moronic mistake after you've been there three times, showing him how it's done? How do you feel when he still claims it's your fault? How do you feel when people start fiddling with the setup who don't have a clue at all just what they're doing? How do you feel when they install software to bypass your security, sometimes even succeed only to cause a network wide problem (and blaming you)? How do you feel when someone's solution to a program being blocked by the virus scanner (because it's infected) is to turn off the scanner (and blaming you for the infection)?
I could rant on, but I guess you get the picture.
So yes, you start to hate the user. You start to belittle him, you start to be condescending, not out of spite (ok, with some users it's plainly spite), but simply because he effing is a moron. It's amazing how normal, rather intelligent people turn into bumbling fools in the presence of a computer. Just to hear them rant about that "stupid machine" and them telling you in no uncertain terms that they think you and your whole computer nonsense should be thrown out of the window.
Yes, I have shirts with certain "information" to the people around me on them, and yes, I wear them proudly. Get a friggin' clue or feel addressed.
I have a lot of patience with people who don't know. There is no shame in not knowing. There is shame in not wanting to learn. And the people who should feel the message is for them are the latter ones.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
i'll admit it, i've done my share of luzer-bashing over the years. however, i've also learned that there are two main problems with most of the people that we call "luzers"...
(1) they don't want to use a computer in the first place, or they know that they are lost and are therefore scared of the computer. either way, they try to avoid having to even touch the thing if they don't have to. these people i don't mind working with- because they generally know their limitations, and in many cases they actually listen when you tell them something. the trick is to tell them in a way that they actually understand- because just like they're scared of the computer, if you say something and they don't understand it, they're usually scared to ask you to repeat it or explain it in a way which is better for them... or they're afraid you're going to turn into one of these arrogant weenies that the article spoke of- the kind of people who would wear an "i see dumb people" t-shirt to a client's office.
in my current work (consulting) i have quite a bit of contact with these people. for the most part they "just want it to work", and they KNOW that they're not computer experts. these people make mistakes, but they almost always realize when they've screwed something up, and they ask for help. and unless they were doing something they shouldn't have been doing in the first place (installing software that the company doesn't want on the machine is a big one that i see) they will usually admit what happened. and after you explain to them that your service call was only necessary because of the software that they installed, and (in the case of installing unauthorized software) after their boss threatens to take my fee out of their paycheck, they usually won't do it again.
(2) companies like microsoft have convinced a lot of people that, just because they know how to use ALT-TAB to flip between outlook and solitaire when the boss walks by, that they are some kind of computer expert. THESE are the ones who piss me off- the people who think that just because they figured out how to turn on file and printer sharing on a windoze 2000 machine, that they are also qualified to handle everything from mail servers to cisco routers.
i don't normally have much contact with these people in my work, because when i find them, i make it a point to make sure their supervisors know exactly what kind of person they have on the payroll- and either the person starts improving, or they end up fired.
however, in my non-paid work (i maintain a combined patch file for qmail, and am a developer for vpopmail) i deal almost exclusively with these people who believe that, just because they can click the right buttons to make windoze do something, that they are also "computer experts" in general. these people are the ones who generally won't READ any more documentation than they have to- they'll just blindly follow along with some poorly written "qmail install guide" they found on the net, without understanding what they're actually doing. when they're done they'll usually have a machine which will move mail from one place to another, but it won't be secure, and they won't have any idea how it works, how to configure it, or how to fix it when something goes wrong.
THESE are the people who i freely admit to being rude with... the people who are in over their head but just plain don't care. (for me, "being rude" usually means referring them to ESR's "How to ask questions the smart way" page instead of answering the same questions over and over again.)
i think another problem is that many so-called "IT professionals" are afraid to use the phrase "i don't know" in front of a client or employer. i've found that being honest with my clients about my own skills and knowledge, as well as about the things i DON'T know, has worked really well- in a few cases the clients have even been willing to pay for my time to learn about whatever it is.
so when it comes to no
Come on. That wasn't intended as a troll, but a witty response. Don't you see? :/
"All you have to do is be fragile and grateful. So stay the underdog." Chuck Palahniuk, Choke
Well it must be just because the people don't KNOW how to use a computer, duh.
Imagine a patient that does not know how to breath, or a car driver that does not know where the brakes are.
Wouldn't they be called dumb too?
Do not. Touch. Down.
The title say that. IT is already no secret that all IT products were crackable, design with short comings, bad tastes. And all IT guys were GOD.
This article really did come as a surprise to me that the IT crowd don't like some of their customers. I work in customer service and I really enjoy helping every signle customer and never complain about them at all. It is truly a joy to serve and I look forward to comming to work every day. I really don't mind that most of them are so stupid that it is a wonder they are standing and breathing, and their bizzare requests of things which we obviously don't sell and ramblings of their nephews dog are of great interest to me while I am trying to eat my lunch.
I don't even mind when they bring in their kids who mess the place up and the parents pretend not to notice so that I have to either ask them to clean up after their spawn or tell the kids myself to please mind where they put that chocolate bar, it does make quite a mess doesn't it... Woops, now it seems as though *I* have gone to far and the kids are crying because they have never had an ounce of dicipline in their lives, and well now the parents are shouting at me too because I have to ask them to pay for the damage their kids do and they don't like that..
Truly this is a wonderful world where we are all happy at work.
It's true.
Businesses know what IT is about now.
They don't have to hire the kid with green hair anymore.
Focusing on the business of IT, which also means customer service, will get you a better job.
When people like being around you it brings in whole host of other benefits.
Once the users can do the following, we'll start leaving them alone.
#1 ) READ the fuckign screens. Do what they say. Don't skips steps. Don't interpret them, they mean what they say - if you can't understand them, quit - you aren't qualified to do the job.
#2 ) When you break something, DON'T LIE about it. Say - I did X, and it's now fuxxored. It's the easiest way to get stuff fixed, and improves your credibility with IT.
#3 ) DON'T go trying to develop your own projects. Write up what you think you want to do, LET IT FIGURE OUT HOW TO DO IT. It's their job, and whether you want to believe it or not, they KNOW how to do it - BETTER THAN YOU do.
#4 ) Quit trying to find ways AROUND the system restrictions applied to your computer. They're there for a reason. It's not YOUR computer, it's the company's. Get over it.
#5 ) It's NOT IT'S #1 responsibility to cater to your every whim, whine or complaint. There's approximately 2000 end users for every IT staff person, they potentially get hundreds of calls an hour for help, WAIT PATIENTLY. They'll get to you. If you keep calling for status updates, or complaining to management, it'll just slow down their response to your request.
#6 ) Don't write down your passwords... You have a brain - USE IT - that's what it's there for.
#7 ) Don't keep the CAPS-LOCK on... Proper grammar requires mixed case, as do passwords. It's amazing how passwords and logins work if you just leave the CAPS-LOCK off.
#8 ) Don't lie about having tried to log in multiple times when you call because your password is locked out. Understand that they can see how many attempts you've made, and sometimes, can see what you tried.
These are just a few, but if you follow them, you'll find that your interaction with IT staff will be much easier and happier.
Remember - do unto others as you would have them do unto you.
Who is general failure, and why is he reading my hard drive?
... is that of sufficiently advanced technology. To them IT is essentially magic. If the magic breaks and can't be fixed, it is because the magician is disinclined or because the magician isn't good enough. There are no constraints on magic, after all.
I disagree. Imagine the forensic pathologist that has to perform a rape exam on a 7 year old girl's corpse. You have to maintain your distance from it or it would drive you insane.
Hmmm...Actually, I used to work in Medicine, and there is just as much discord in medicine as there is in IT. For instance, if you ever get a chance to speak to an MD who worked in a VA medical center, you would get some rather funny (to those of us who are sick bastards) jokes about patience, not to mention about administration. For example, there are "Qs" and "Os" run with that and let me know what you find out.
"My immediate reaction is "WTF? What kind of moron doesn't make things 64-bit safe to begin with?" Linus
"Not so in the computer world -- users think it's perfectly okay to get snippy, and that the Magic IT Guy can just wave his Magic IT Wand and magically fix any problem (usually by "just dialing in")."
The ethereal world bites back. We artists told you how hard it is to create digital items and you all said, "It's not really work!" Now you complain that the general public doesn't believe you when you tell them what you do is "work". Throw in the technologists attitude and your task is made harder.
And welcome to every class I have ever taken. I have noticed that, in general, most professors couldn't give a shit less what you already know, your take on their course syllabus is, or where you think the industry is heading and therefore which skillsets are most appropriate to develop. They want you to do it their way, because they are the professor, dammit! It's also just more practical that way. If you have to teach something, especially something as intricate as computer programming, you have to have everyone on the same page. Imagine trying to cross-debug 100 programs written on 100 differently responding text editors? I understand that it shouldn't matter, but is it really that hard to just not use vi? Let's just say he has no real purpose for his anti-*nix bent, and just wants to pump out a bunch of yes-men programmers. So what? It doesn't mean you have to follow the path he layed out. Half of college is just showing all the big people that you can jump through their little hoops quite well thank-you-very-much.
"Progress comes from the intelligent use of experience."
The use of "they" as a generic pronoun with a singular antecedent goes back at least to Middle English and has been used by many of the best writers of the English language. The idea that it is "incorrect" is a modern notion promulgated by people who believe there's some sort of Platonic perfect English out in the aether somewhere and only human failings keep us from reaching this ideal.
The better way to determine usage is to look at distribution in actual use (see The Cambridge Grammar of the English Language), not lists of pet peeves of Victorian and Edwardian era English professors and writers in book form *cough*Strunk & White*cough*.
"Or as what I tell my co-workers (as I am the "known geek") "The only reason why I know so much about computers is because that's how much I broke stuff""
Hey Rocky! Watch me crash a plane.
Oh come now. If one's going to be insulted? At least be funny about it. And that was funny.
It appears that you are blaming problems caused by a poor management structure on your IT people. If you have to go through that many layers to get a single PC problem fixed or purchased I pity your disfunctional workplace.
why use PEBKAC when PICNIC says it so much better
PICNIC: Problem in Chair, Not in Computer.
Your basic user you can't grip about because it is not (normally) their job to understand how the application work but just wants it to work and doesn't care how it works.
However when you have users/customers that should know how it works or atleast have a basic understanding of technology and they don't, that can get very annoying as your explaing freakin network ports to them or why a file can't be deleted due to another process locking it. And many of these people are Certified on there respective platform, but doesn't know that much more then the basic user.
ok i'm finished with my rant.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The author assumes that transparency is undesirable. I think I'd rather be insulted in public. At least it gives me a chance to modify my behaviour.
The code of practice sounds like something out of a mediaeval guild. "Highest professional standards possible" is meaningless as soon as we impose a deadline. "Advance the [...] reputation of the profession" is us-against-themism.
It's all a bit dishonest and creepy. I think IT is better off without a lot of it.
It just too easy for corporate drones that are behind the eight ball to blame hardware and software (and its support staff) for their problems. It's just an all-to-obvious dodge to try to buy more time.
If you work in IT, you get lots of complaints from lots of people who have no idea what you're up against.
Chances are that if you're still employed, that means at least your boss likes you. Sure, your boss has problems with the computers and software in the office just like everyone else. However, he also understands the series of tradeoffs that led to the system being the way it is.
Users often aren't aware of these tradeoffs. Furthermore, they often don't even care. They're concerned about their project, their program, and their computer. This isn't because they're childish or self-centered. They just don't have the same perspective as IT or management.
So users complain. They complain a lot. They get angry. Furious. They say silly things. And yes, sometimes they do act childish.
And so what do we do? We make jokes. We laugh it off. We make snarky quips over IM about 'lusers' who clearly don't get it. What the hell else are we going to do? IT resources are finite, and we are not magicians. Until the world understands this, there will be a disconnect between "IT" and "the users."
I was being sarcastic.
--
WHO ATE MY BREAKFAST PANTS?
Those of us in the 'support' industry hear all the time about how we're an unnecessary 'cost' to the company rather than an asset, and about how we have a bad attitude, despite the fact that we're treated the way we are, and despite the fact that we too are bound by strict budgets, upper-management decision makers, poor software systems, long hours, Sarbanes Oxley, etc. Guess what: sales people, executives, warehouse people, machine operators and marketing people are all 'costs' to the company as well. Let the sales people see how much less productive they are when they have to write down and fax all of their orders to be fulfilled, and have to manually call and check every day to see when those orders have been shipped.
I am currently employed in a cibercafé. Clients come in and out all the time, and while most are pretty normal some are horrible selfish persons that think you are both their slave and a magician because you have a computer in front of you, thus you can do seven things at once. I have been pretty nasty at some clients, but only on return of their attitude. It's incredibly hard to keep your cool with people like that at times.
An old woman comes wanting to write an email to her daughter and hasn't touched a computer in all of her life? Hell, it'd be monstrous to not try to teach her at least.
The problem is when some "smart" one comes around, believing he knows everything about computers because he downloads music on Kazaa/Ares and knows how to send those annoying screen shake-shakes on MSN Messenger. As soon as a ridiculously insignificant problem arises they don't ask you for guidance, they demand you to fix it asap or they'll go complain to the boss like if I kicked their heads. And it doesn't matter if you explain them or fix it, they will call you again next time. They completely refuse to learn anything yet they can be every day in there.
I hate most of my clients because of that. The object that is keeping them entertained, that allows them to communitate, to learn, is being used as a simple jukebox with chat capabilities. No one of my daily clients has showed a sign of learning anything at all, even fixing problems like MSN Messenger sessions staying open (simple task manager, close all msnmesg.exe (iirc, sleepy now after 12 hours with those freaks), doesn't matter how many times I explained them, tried to make them understand that a freaking ISP-level network problem is not my fault or that if the person they are trying to videochat with doesn't turn on the freaking camera, they won't be able to see it. They even get freaking violent when the printer is out of ink and demand me to get more (on sunday and without supplies left) and stuff like that.
Today a very disgusting woman (in manners) got into the freaking counter, just to get in front of my computer and demanded me to search something in some page I never visited to print it. There are some things wrong with that:
First, you don't freaking get inside a counter without permission.
Second, it's terribly unpolite to get to someone just demanding and not even saying hello.
Third, her tone was incredibly demanding and rough, like if every line she spoke countained a repressed "you slave".
Fourth, you can't expect someone that has never been into a database to find information for you if you don't even know what you are searching.
I got her out of the freaking counter first, then asked what she wanted properly. She gave me the address while not taking her eyes out of my screen, but since she didn't even know what to search for, and I had no idea, demanded her to use the computers for rental. I am not being paid to do that stuff to such a person. She kept bugging me while I was busy with other clients to help her finding something that she never actually told me what it was. For what I could see from the prints it was some sort of database for employment in a hospital...there's Dr.House mk.II, sirs. I didn't treat her nicely, but at most she only saw my angry face while I was wanting to kick her shaky ass out. (yes, she was shaking all the time, what contributed to make me nervous).
In such environment, how would you reaction? I normally manage to keep my cool, but at times it's impossible. Hell, there was a time where I was being robbed and they kept coming complaining about freaking MSN Messenger failing! It's IMPOSSIBLE to have respect for them at all. (no joke. The police came just in time that day and nothing happened but it COULD have happened. I am dead serious on this)
'IT professionals think nothing of wearing their scorn on their sleeves'
... even though I was a Sys. Admin at the time and NOT PC support. Or the guy who typed format C: to see what it did, as he'd seen it in a book ... well, at least he was trying to learn].
... but the mechanic I take it too who does find it seems to think I should have known it, as though it is 'common knowledge').
... after all, that's what backups are for ... right?]
... I often tell the users, you wouldn't take your car to a Civil engineer and expect them to be able to fix it would you? And you wouldn't call the car mechanic to come fix the traffic congestion you've been having near your place, would you?
It all depends on the Department. I know a lot of the PC support guys I used to work with were pretty lazy. [Blaming everything on the Network]. Plus they loved to ridicule users who didn't know solutions to the problems which occurred with their PC's. [And let's face it, as far as the user is concerned the PC is just a tool that should work].
Now, admittedly some of those users were probably too 'untrained' or too thick to use a computer, [like the manager who couldn't get his floppy disk to work as he'd put it in upside down, or the manager who minimised his desktop in Win 3.1 and never thought of clicking on the little icon in the lower right hand corner to get it back. Or the manager who deleted his files and wanted me to get them back for him
But, at present one of the many things I do is train people who have never used PC's to use PC's, and a lot of them are very afraid of:
1. the PC itself [in case they cause it to melt down], or they destroy it somehow.
2. doing something mind numbingly stupid in front of other students or me [the instructor].
3. some think if they learn to use a computer it will forever change them into a computer slave. [Yes, yes, we all welcome our new computer overlords.]
When I go to one of our other sites in order to do PC support [because apparently when PC support is needed it's easier to call the Network Engineer rather than the PC support guy, as they want the issue resolved], they often appolgise to me for the stupid things they MIGHT have done. After all, it's only a tool.
Though, to be fair, you get it from a LOT of other trades as well. Like when my car malfunctions and a motor mechanic gives me a stupid look because I was supposed to know the cause of my car engine constantly stalling was some stupid electrical thing sitting on the engine. (Even though the last five mechanics I took it too couldn't find the cause
I've never found Developers / Programmers to be too bad with users [I mean, some of them are naturally arrogant, but the ones I knew from BEFORE they became programmers were already that way.]
I've never meet too many Network Engineers to be too arrogant (though they do develop a hatred for PC support guys who always blame the network for everything). I've meet some arrogant Sys Admins, but I know from talking to their friends/other halves etc that they were arrogant before getting into Sys Admin.
Then, of course there is the problem that most NON IT people don't know the difference between one section of IT and another. I'm forever explaining that I don't actually DO PC Support, as I know very little about registers and DLL's etc, but becasue I'm in IT I seem to be the first port of call for almost everyone I know [except the PC Support guys who seem to think that any problem can easily be solved by blowing away the contents of a hard drive and re-installling everything
But, the lack of distinction outside of IT for the different aspects of IT can be confusing for the users. I normally try to explain that PC support guys are like motor mechanics, while network engineers are like Civil engineers who design and look after the roads people drive on
Alas, it do
Sure enough, the cow costume was hanging up next to the superhero outfit and sailors uniform. (S,Spud)
Well here the issue is simple, IT profesionals are mocked by society, for the work they do. they are given titles like nerd and geek... I know the IT community has imbraced these terms, but they are usualy used in a derogotory maner. I dont see that happening to doctors, and other profesionals? People generally treat IT staff like **** and then expect us to fix stuff that they Break, and then deny doing anything, ignore the advice, we give them and then break it again, and blame us.... When you visit a doctor you wait for an appointment, you dont just start trying to jump the cue as it where... Maybe when the world treats IT staff better, they will recieve respect in retun untill such time they will remain. Ungratefull annoying Idiots.....
Yep. Several professions have scores of rotten apples. IT can't be the worst.
A variant on the theme is sulking because the customer made you do more work because they delivered their information out of order. The Pro/staffer wish-assumes the customer somehow magically knows the optimum sequence to deliver the info so they can whip through the line.
It's never the customer's fault, but it CAN truly have an effect. Several types of software make you delete entire sections because the customer suddenly adds "oh, and do this..."
I did work at McDonalds a little, and from then on I played a mini-game as a customer to deliver the phrases in the best order, 'knowing there is no way I am supposed to know'. A couple genius staffers suddenly noticed after a couple visits, and asked to trade stories.
The funniest time was when a bunch of line crew guys were stuck closing somewhere and the shift leader had disappeared to solve some issue. I leaned over the counter to tell the guy the buttons he had missed.
My first Journal Entry ever, in 8 years! http://slashdot.org/journal/365947/aphelion-scifi-fantasy-horror-poetry-webzine
- Both professions are heavily controlled. Many years practical and theoretical training, interspersed with tough exams. It's not just a good idea, it's the law. In many countries a medicine doctor has to pass an exam every few years just to keep their licence.
- Mandatory professional associations membership. Getting kicked out of the association means losing your right to practice the profession.
- Personal responsibility for fuckups.
1. and 2. tend to lessen the number of professionals. Guess what it does to the prices of their services?3. drives the insurance prices up, and again, these increase the service prices.
Pay up or shut up.
because it was badly designed and implemented by over-zealous, micro-managing ignorant committees. HELP desk: you provide HELP, you are the users' ONLY recourse to resolve problems, you're not a buck-passing conveyor belt, and if that remote IT department doesn't respond, you as HELP desk should chase the fuckers hard to HELP the users and change policy or procedure or whatever else it is. If you're HELP desk, and you permit such buck-passing, you bury yourself deliberately in non-productive shite. Unfortunately, you're probably 5000 miles off in some east asian country, in which case, pass it on and you'll be out of your outsourcing contract soon enough too.
It's odd, that Helpdesk are viewed as members of the IT team, when in reality they should be set up as members of each department, as advocates to COMBAT poor IT procedure and policy. Don't acquiesce. Don't collaborate. Do your frigging job. My dentist is my dental HELPER: if she refers me to an orthodontist, I still consider her as my first point of enquiry, and it's her job to authenticate and control who she refers me to. Otherwise, I go find another first point of contact. So, in IT circles, HELP the users. Is that hard to understand?
Doctors tend to be very insulting (under the guise of clinical) and are often incompetent. Insult their patients? Regularly!
I've had a doctor dismiss a sever ear blockage and ask why I wanted to take the day off to have it taken care of. Another one basically made fun of my weight. (No he didn't just use clinical terms. He insulted me and my mother waiting out side and told me I looked pregnant). I've had another continue to up the medication on someone very close that damn near killed her even though she was reporting contraindications that the drug company warns requires the patient to stop.
That's just the medical profession. I could go on about every other profession (how about a plumber that wanted to charge a blind man $8000 to unblock a single pipe - his relatives did it for free).
Lack of professionalism unique to I.T.? Gimme a break!
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
is actually standard operating procedure in many jobs. Has anyone see the movie Clerks? Case in point.
Does doing it in front of them help develop a professional communication channel? No, probably not.
"First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mohandas Gandhi
If doctors got:
patients that repeatedly contracted food poisoning from eating rotten food and then...
walked into the hospital expecting to be seen first despite many other patients being in more need and...
patients that blamed their illness on the incompetence of the medical profession
They'd curse and swear and be cranky in public too.
I have found that in any industry, as long as you try to remain calm and patient, eventually the client, the person who called for help, will eventually step back from the heart-attack inducing rage.
I have worked as a network administrator before, and quite honestly, sometimes it is worth it to take an hour out of your time, and explain, albeit in very simple, terms and concepts to your client. Because most likely, one hour out of your workday and theirs, will prevent multiple hours of headaches over the year. It really can be cost effective in the long term.
Recently though I have moved into the finance world, and the clients there can on occasion be quite rough. Not recommended for the faint of heart at all.
The current IT culture in macro needs to change, yes most people have very little time to deal with what they would regard as a simple problem. Guess what, unless you specialize in that particular field, any problem is unlikely to be simple to your client. You would not be expected to figure out how to assemble a house from scratch, perform a heart transplant, or even drive a marketing project. As an IT professional, you are hired to help and provide your client with a service that is something they don't have the time, nor desire to learn on their own.
My two cents, feel free to ask for a refund, just file in triplicate.
Automotive analogies are a bad habit, but I think I should mention this:
I believe the law in Iowa is, to get a driver's license, you have to score reasonably high on a test that shows you know about driving. Things like how far before the intersection to signal, and right of way, and so on.
If you're below the age of 18, I believe it also requires that you take a Driver's Education class. Or maybe this is required at any age.
Now, consider what Driver's Ed teaches. I have never in my life actually used a real manual transmission, but I had to learn on their simulator -- the example given by the teacher was someone who had his finger sliced off, but he put it on ice and his brother drove him into town, and he got it reattached. So, in an emergency, I might have to use a manual transmission, and "It's not my area" or "It's not my interest" isn't an excuse.
Then there's interfaces. The article asks "What if Ford decided to switch the positions of the brake and the accelerator?" Or something to that effect. Well, just about every car has a different Cruise Control system, and different environmental controls (AC/heating), the hazard lights are in different places, some have the brights as a separate button, some have the gearshift as yet another handle on the steering wheel, while some have it by the armrest, sometimes the seat has some simple, physical controls on the side or under it, and sometimes it's all electronic, sometimes the gas tank can just be opened, and sometimes there's some sort of catch by the driver's seat...
Need I go on?
And we're not required to learn ALL of those, just enough that we can learn the rest as we need to. Frankly, humans are capable of this -- I don't know anyone who is completely confused by a desktop environment alone. Sit them down at Windows, Mac, or Ubuntu, and they can generally at least get to the Internet.
Let's make it simpler: A doorknob. Sometimes it's a knob that you turn, sometimes it's shaped differently, sometimes it's a handle you push down, sometimes you just grab a handle -- or some groove in the door -- and pull the whole mess to the side, sometimes you just walk up to it and it opens for you. Or locks on a door: Sometimes the key goes one way, sometimes the other, sometimes it's a deadbolt, sometimes it's a flimsy thing screwed to the door...
You are human, and presumably intelligent, or you wouldn't be using a computer for work in the first place. That means you have the capacity to learn, so "I can't" is no longer valid. And while it's not a life-or-death thing like a car, common decency means you should. And just as there is Driver's Education for a car, I think all computer users should be required to take an introductory course on how to sanely use a computer -- including things like choice of OS, choice of web browser, why not to download random EXEs, how to upgrade your drivers, how to use simple antivirus/antispyware scans, how and why to do backups (your hard disk WILL fail), etc.
I mean, I get it, there are some cases of IT treating users like idiots when it's not really their fault. However, as a user, you should first be sure that it really isn't your fault before you go looking for others to blame.
And one more thing: When dealing with techs, no matter how socially inept they may be, start off with the assumption that they've had a really bad day, and that they've had to deal with a lot of uninformed idiots, and just do whatever you can to make their job easier. That means that when I call for tech support, I already have my serial number in hand, and I've already checked their website, but I'm also going to follow their instructions to the letter (unless it's actually dangerous), even though I know they're just running through a script, and I know it won't help. And when we're done, no matter what the outcome, I thank them for their time, and tell them to have a good day (before they can follow their script and say that to me), instead of screaming at them and blaming everything on them.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
It's not IT, it's I(dio)T.
Karma: Bad is the liberal way of saying this guy won't drink the kool aid here on slash dot. I wear my Karma with pride
This is yet another reason to outsource IT jobs
"We have an A-Bomb...what more do you want, mermaids?" --I.I. Rabi, speaking in defense of Robert Oppenheimer
I think there is a big difference to in what area an IT employee is "disrespectfull" towards the end user. Sure, you have the kind of guys who actually laugh with users ( both SE as system admins) because the User knows less of a computer then they do.. These are the bad kind of IT folk who actually don't get it that, as much of a computer whizz they may be, they could well suck at the job the end-user is doing ( legal advice, financial analysis etc). Everybody has he's job and skills. Just because yours are better in 1 perticular area doesn't mean the end user is a retard. HOWEVER... when you are doing your 3th field trip of the day because yet another user doesn't seem to be able to notice the red light saying "out of paper", tryed to get a jammed paper out of a printer with his scissors, broke of the cd-tray of his laptop while "carrying" the laptop with this "special handle", spilled a coke in his laptop ( again), etc.. etc.. etc.. (yes... these are all real life things).. you really get frustrated from time to time. And if the end user gets arrogant against the it guy who is trying to fix the error the end user made ( accident OR stupidity) and always knows better because he asked his 16-year old brother in law who "knows a lot about computer stuff cause he is a games".. you basically get frustrated after a while. By the way.. this is a problem that every profession that has to handle with specialism seems to have ( as said here before)..
This article fails to address the years of oppression and social isolation that IT Professionals faced before they became the professional that they are. How many of us were the "nerds" "geeks" "dorks" or whatever else they called us back in school when the "cool kids" wanted nothing to do with us unless they needed help with their homework, which usually meant let them copy it. Now that we all grew up the formally "cool kids" try to play down what they did to us in the past, pretend that it never happened and become all chummy so we can once again do their work for them. Especially when the answer is in the manual or help file (I'll admit it, I do check those when I can't immediately find an answer). As for the part of the article talking about the code of ethics...Pirates of the Carribean said it best...the Code is more what you'd call "guidelines" than actual rules.
"Yes, I'd say that tech support is on par with janitorial services in business, as it should be", NineNine
.. :)
I don't know any other business where the janitors are expected to: do the accounts for the accounts manager, maintain email and web accounts, provide off site client support, create the install CD, create web sites for important clients and do all this for a janitors salary. Finally, do all this with obsolete out-of-date equipment (to save money) while the execs spend the equivalent of your weekly salary on executive lunches.
"Fact is, most companies, due to non-IT people's willful and prideful ignorance, DO depend much more heavily upon the immediate and constant services of their IT staff than they do upon their janitorial staff"
What response do you give to someone why won't attach his own documents, he calls you to do it each time. Or the exec who won't actually use the e-mail, he prints it out and hands it to the PA.
"Non-IT people in a company tend to treat their IT staff the way some asshat french noble from the sixteenth century treated his household staff"
I have worked in a number of non-IT related businesses and can tell you that senior staff treat their underlings like shit. I think it's to do with them being treated like dirt on the way up so now they can be the ass-hole. Some advice I can give you from personal experience is never call your manager a fat bastard to his face
Re:Insulting asshole
davecb5620@gmail.com
I think the main reason users are called 'lusers' and treated so harshly is because the people who managed to get into an IT dept. went through a whole loads of crap getting there.
I don't know how bad it is in the US, but in the UK, through high school I went through crap from being called geek from day to day to getting physically bullied because I chose to learn how to program and how to web develop.
So now I fit that stereo type of 'programmer', even through college it was still the same, but what tops it off is, I don't have enough money to get to Uni, so I'm still not even in the profession that I want to be in, so by the time I get there I'll be so pissed off that I will look down at others that don't share my ability to install a printer, understand how a firewall works or set up an internet connection.
It is like many have said, IT is only liked when it helps them out, it is a scape goat for all that is evil in the world when it isn't working- on some occasions I have installed a printer in some one's home, they have thanked me and sent me on their way, then just days later some one tells me, that the person I installed the printer is bad mouthing me because 'I' did something wrong, perhaps helping them install their printer, because they didn't set the margins correctly on their document and it now doesn't print on one page.
As for the whole female CS students and what not, if they know their stuff, I would give them respect, however, since in high school since they gave me crap like everyone else, they would have to prove it, because I'm not letting some one just get my respect just because they are female- hell, even if they are male, I won't unconditionally recognise them as a peer that I could work with/develop ideas with unless they could show me they could do what they professed.
All this isn't made better by the fact I know people that are at university throwing away chances to become professional programmers when I sit at home, working my ass off learning what I can without a chance in hell of doing the same till I save up a small fortune.
That's why I would treat my customers/clients/users as 'inferior lifeforms'.
Ah, you've hit upon another fact of the NHS: a large proportion of the doctors are Asian immigrants.
Michael Reed, freelance tech writer.
The only thing I have to say in defense of saying that users are stupid is that "Users" are "Stupid." This doesn't mean people are stupid. It means USERS are stupid.
For example, I used to work as a cashier in a health food store, and there was an express lane. The sign said:
EXPRESS LANE
10 ITEMS OR LESS
10AM - 2PM
People would not be able to read the whole sign. And I mean normal people. And I noticed that I myself exhibit cattle-like behavior while shopping. So my guiding principle in supermarket design? Shoppers are cattle.
I'm a tech guy (hello, nice to meet you), and I click dialogs all the damn time without reading them. I push buttons without understanding what's going to happen (when I come across one, that is). I got a S-E w800i cell phone, and it asked me a question I didn't understand, so I randomly chose the answer (50% chance of getting it right, no?), and ended up forwarding all my calls to someone all afternoon.
Users are fucking stupid. Shut up.
Please stop stalking me, bro.
I've been working in the industry since the early 1990s, and have seen a LOT of people on both sides, both the people who need help, and the people who are there to help. In many cases, the problem STARTS with the people who need help really have no desire to learn even the basics, and over time, the IT staff grow to learn to really dislike the people who really just won't learn some very simple and basic things.
For example, when it comes to a Microsoft operating system(no matter which one), rebooting your computer is a very basic thing to do to see if that will resolve a problem. Let's face it, after three days without being rebooted, a computer that sees a lot of use NEEDS to be rebooted to avoid problems. Yes, it depends on the applications used, hardware drivers, and so on, but generally, three days is around the longest a Microsoft based machine should be running without being rebooted.
If those who constantly look to IT people can't be bothered to learn that basic solution, the IT people KNOW that the person looking for help will be more work than most people they need to help as a part of their job. Repeating the same questions to the exact same people when trying to help them, and having the solution be exactly the same gets old. If the person who needs help is an...unpleasant individual, then it is VERY understandable that the IT staff will be a bit unpleasant when dealing with that clueless person.
Programmers are in a different category than IT workers because it is a different specialty. Programmers tend to get treated poorly by many companies, have long hours, with pay that may or may not compensate for the hours put in. The project leads may not encourage communication between employees as well, so you end up with skilled workers in a bad environment who are kept away from non-programmers. The end result is that many programmers are encouraged not to interact with others, and so their professional communication abilities may degrade over time. Possible resentment for bad environments can make the problem worse. This disconnect isn't good for anyone, yet some companies push to keep things that way.
Many people LOVE to point fingers at the IT workers when it comes to finding fault, but in many cases, it really isn't their fault. When an IT user uses the term PEBKAC, it really does apply in many cases, and it takes a tough individual to keep a positive attitude, and in no way should be looked at as a male/female thing.
the brake car analogy misses a point that is the key to understanding this problem. The problems of drivers (users) getting confused between the brake and gas pedals did actually occur on BMW's. The result was instructive in the context of this article. Drivers sued BMW, swearing that the car accelerated while they pressed the brake. Even though it became painfully obvious that these drivers had confused the pedals, BMW was forced by lawsuits to address the issue. (the tech fix made it clear that they were addressing not spontaneous acceleration as the plaintiffs claimed, but pedal confusion, and the fix worked, 'nuff said) In a like manner, doctors are sued as often for their patient's misperceptions and emotional grief as they are for their mistakes (since they often bury their mistakes, it evens out imo) In the software industry, EULA's shield programmers from the effects of their mistakes, (and the effects of their customer's mistakes) This has created the culture described in this article. The customers have no big stick to beat programmers over the head with, so, like kids who know the adult has no power to punish us, we (in another comment i admitted I was guilty) act like arrogant brats. I would argue that what tempers doctors and other professionals is not their code of ethics, but the legal power their customers have. Grant my users the right to sue me for a confusing interface, and suddenly I would not roll my eyes, but focus squarely on making it idiot proof. I also would start looking for another job.
There's only one other career I know of where blatantly insulting your customers is acceptable, and that's stand-up comic. (Of course being a comic also requires you to be funny, and material like select * from users where clue > 0 isn't funny.) I laughed...
doctors don't call their patients "meatbags" at least, not publicly Only if you never read doctor's blogs.
I spend several hours a day doing basic help desk stuff for my end users... people who pay my salary. Half the time I want to scream "Please put the computer back in the box and send it back to dell, because you are to stupid to own a computer" - But I don't.
Do you know why? Because these people pay my salary, and because when they are asking for my help, I represent the face of my company. If they have a bad experience with me, our revenues will go down. So, I am always courteous, respectful and polite. The result of this is that they are courteous and respectful to me. Strange, yet true.
Later in the day, I have a meeting with one of my software vendors. The software is constantly breaking. The end users are reporting error problems, crashing machines. The accounting software is not working properly - and I can document it. I am told the end users must be hacking us. I point out that no one would hack a site for 2 dollars. I am told it must be script kiddies. I point out that script kiddies would be wreaking havoc, not costing me a few dollars here and there. When we go on to discuss that the software is crashing machines, I am told it's because my customers are stupid. Or that they are imagining it.
At NO point does the software vendor say "we will look into it" nor "yes, we are aware of this bug and we are working on it". Nor am I, at any point - IT Pro that I actually am, afforded ANY credibility during these proceedings (because this would force the vendor to admit that maybe their is a software problem that is thier reponsibilty). As a matter of fact, though my credentials put me a few years ahead of these fella's, I am treated with basic disdain and disrespect at all times.
Finally, when I state the obvious, that I paid 25,000 dollars for the development of the software, that I pay thousands a month to host said software on thier servers, and that I expect the software to work... I am called a "bitch" (not to my face of course... but it's pretty darn clear). So, I must say - I'm sorry for your work enviroment, truely I am. But I think that when IT treats end users like they are stupid, tells lies (IT guys never say "I don't know, let me look into it" - they lie, and then lie again to cover it up), and pretend to be smarter than everyone else they work with... eventually folks are just not gonna much like the IT guys.
Oh yes... This is somewhat off-topic, but you've hit on a larger problem, one which makes for a lot of bad blood in lots of companies: the type of internal accounting process which draws a line between "cost centres" and "benefit centres". Sooner, rather than later, the logic of the process leads the accountants to believe that the only department making money is the sales department, while everything else is a "cost center" - and costs need to be slashed, don't they?
What follows is a strange kind of autolysis... more and more money invested into sales, some money invested into marketing, close to no money for "supporting services", customer care or even production. Such companies usually end up repackaging and selling the same stuff they were 10 years ago, only to fewer and fewer people, at higher and higher costs (and prices). Sounds familiar? If it does, find a new job now.
Something bad is coming when people are suddenly anxious to tell the truth.
First of all, IT and computer science are two different things. Programmers are the people who write the horrible software that IT departments are forced to put up with. You can't blame IT that the software you are forced to use sucks, IT doesn't like it either.
Second, we don't want you to know how to change your oil or spark plugs. We want you to grasp the basics of driving, like which pedal is the "go button" and which one is the "stop button". People REFUSE to learn the basics of USING a computer, not FIXING a computer, just USING it. This is not acceptable if your job involves using a computer.
You don't need to know how to fix the toilet either, but you damn well better know how to use it. You think you'd keep your job if every single time you went to take a piss you had to get someone from maintenance to come and show you how? Do you call maintenance and ask them "my turds are just floating there in the bowl, can you come take a look?", like people call IT to "come take a look" at the message on their screen asking them to reboot after installing something?
Friends don't let friends line-dance.
We're not asking for "computer expertise". We're asking for basic ability to use an every day tool, and common sense. I don't expect everyone to be a phone expert either, but if you have to call me and ask how to check your voicemail over and over again, then you need to be fired. Just like if you have to call me and ask how to spell check a word document every time you write one.
"What arrogant IT people sometimes forget is that the IT department does not make money"
What idiot PHBs sometimes forget is that no company is a single department. Accounting doesn't make money either, nor does maintenance. Hell, in alot of companies marketing is the biggest expense, where they just blow tons of money on stupid shit all the time with no return at all. The fact is, THE COMPANY makes money, because all the departments do their jobs to allow the company to function as well as possible. Simply because one department is directly responsible for producing the product you sell does not mean they are more important than everyone else. They do not exist in a vacuum, and without the other departments making the company run, the product would not exist, and neither would the company. Are MBA douches sleeping through their classes now or what? You should have learned this.
In a large organization, every department shows scorn to every other department. Look at all those office hens that have the various "Talk to the boss or to the woman who knows what's going on" or similar things pasted all over their cubicle. IT is no better or worse than they are. And this is why I hate the enterprise environment, and left it... The tech is cool, but the people suck ass, no matter what department they work in. In a small business, such as a VAR who visits various customer locations, one is much more careful of how one expresses scorn. This is true of other service-oriented businesses as well, which have nothing to do with IT.
Styrofoam IS biodegradable, you're just impatient!
The problem with most users is that they dont want an explanation, they just want it to work even when they are the root of the problems, it becomes infuriating at this point because you know they'll experience the same problem again and again because they wont change their habits.
They think of us as tools and therein lies the problem of it all, they forget that were human too, that we have families and schedules and not just them to support like were some kind of servant arriving at the sound of the bell.
They think we know everything and will dump anything on us if it has a digital display so yes, maybe we are scornfull, but we have good excuses for it. Maybe start by treating us like we matter.
My problem with the article is that the author is somewhat tongue and cheek. Really what has happened is the IT boom has allowed for people to find humor in it. Dilbert is the perfect example, and people love it. Heck most of my users love to make fun of themselves and are constantly telling me that they need to RTFM. What happens is people think that IT support is just those people on the phones for Dell. These types of jobs pay very little, are often outside of the US and attract people who want to be lazy and sit around all day talking on a phone. My IT staff is well educated in both IT and communications. We hold monthly traininfg sessions in order to help educate the end user. We go out of our way to try and teach as much as we can so hopefully the user will feel secure enough to try and fix some problems on their own. When you look at business, this kind of attitude is in every department. HR is nice and smiley to your face, but once it's friday night and they go out to the bar after work, you'd be amazed at the things they say. Executives treat most people like they know absolutely nothing, heck you can't even talk to these people on a freindly level because you are not worth their time. Accounting is constantly fed up with spending and the bad accounting practices. It's just that IT is the newest department and that it has been sensationalized in the press and in comics. I think the problem exists in every field of work. IT was just able to make it into the mainstream.
... doctors would be wearing t-shirts that say "No, I will not fix your spleen"
While I sympathize with the author, who has probably been on the rough end of some verbal abuse, I find it interesting that he is using the same tactics against IT professionals that he claims has been brought against him. While it is likely that there are some immature employees in his IT department, it is unfair to assume that all IT professionals are immature and mean-spirited to all who are not "in their clique".
I have been in the bottom rung of IT service and support for around six years, and I cannot count the number of customers who want a magic fix that will instantly get their computer running again without having to pay for any actual service. Abusive customers have accused me of ruining their computers weeks after a repair, when their own teenage children have had full access to the machine and are permitted to download and install anything they want. Others have called up screaming and cursing at me because they didn't take the time to down their broadband modem before hooking up their computer and could not get online - even though I am not their internet provider, nor am I paid to offer them support for their internet access. And the list goes on and on and on.
Being an IT professional is not easy. Maintaining a professional attitude at work in this field can be a challenge on a daily basis. Taking abuse from your own coworkers is even worse than from your customers, because you have to see them on a daily basis. So before publishing an article that is designed to upset any IT professional who reads it, wouldn't it make more sense to take the time to reflect on what you may have said or done to upset your IT department, and avoid it in the future? Have you ever thanked your IT staff for helping you? Have you ever brought them donuts or coffee? Somehow I doubt it.
Just because one speaks fluent 'puter, does not mean they will automatically communicate well with other humans. Put another way, the personality type of the individual who easily groks the machine is often not that of the person who easily groks other people.
Personally, though fairly good at both, I find it easier to deal with the machine, as there's no emotion involved. If it's not working right, it's not because it's mad at you (anger often skews valid output), but simply because it either has a broken part (or code), or you're not speaking to it in a manner it can understand.
In the former case, it's my job to figure out what's broken and replace accordingly. In the latter, it's my job to keep yapping at it until it we're in sync.
Well, if I take a look at IT from the perspective of a user, I of course get the impression some so-called "IT professionals" are big idiots as well.
Take web-pages. With most web-pages I am the user. And obviously, those self-declared "webmasters" can't get anything right. Most pages not only fail to validate the easiest test whether they're actually html according to the definition, but also defy any law of user-friendly design. "No, you should not use that back-button on MY page". "If you don't like your browser full size, you will need to scroll sideways". "the font is big enough for ME", "No, you can't resize that, I did it exactly to the size I want it seen", "no flash? no navigation!" and so on.
If you're unlucky enough, you as a professional can enjoy yourself with the product of some company whose idiot-professionals think "click to focus" must be your way of working too, and insist on copy/paste with the keyboard, tough it could be done with the mouse just as well. You work with a system obviously produced by idiots who think presenting you with "Error 0xdeadbeef" (or something like that) is more comprehensive than giving you the error "550 wrong username or password" received from the server.
And now, you as an IT professional stand between the idiots who don't grok windows, and between the idiots who don't understand how to program windows (but did it anyway), and you probably can't do a thing about it. Nice perspective.
"The more prohibitions there are, The poorer the people will be" -- Lao Tse
Some doctors, anyway.
I had (what turned out to just be) a bad chest cold a couple of years back. Not sure if I should go in to work or take more time off, I headed up to the local walk-in clinic.
The doctor took a look, and said, "Yup, you've got a viral infection there, it'll take time, but nothing to worry about...".
Without me saying anything, he started in on, "Now I can't give you antibiotics for this...."
Where I interrupted and said, "Yeah, you said it's viral, right?"
He was startled. He said nearly everyone who comes in wants a pill to make it better right now. I said I just wanted to know if it was OK to go to work or if I should stay home.
He said the contagious part was over; that the time I probably should have stayed home was before I developed major symptoms....
He did give me a prescription for some very nice Robitussin cough syrup with Codeine in it, to help sleep though the night. That's good stuff.
So, dealing with an endless stream of lusers means you wind up treating everyone as a luser until you know better. Faster that way.
2. The reciprocation of customer service, come on, They need to get their jobs done, and they dont care whats on your plate. Just like when you walk up to payroll and ask WTF is up with my paycheck being $220.14 for two weeks, you dont care what theyre up to, you want that fixed now. Scheduling people is an art and takes real practice.
3. Its not fine for an employee to blame something un-related on being late. However the opportunity shouldnt be there for the employee in the first place. If an IT issue can be valid excuse then it will be abused. Its not right, but its a fact of life.
4. As far as the printer goes, you shouldn't need to walk over to the printer(s) and figure out if there is enough paper to get your job done. It needs to be right there when you press print, it should give you a pretty legit idea of what the paper forecast is. Sure it might have 200 pages left, but is part way through a 500 page job, so really your going to need to submit and wait. Checking the printer is a waste of time, having a paper sensor is a no-brainer.
5. Double checking your own spelling.... since you brought that one up "seperate"
Once you stop whining about the users you might be able to help them.
Storm
He claims that " select * from users where clue > 0 " is not funny!
"IT people" are ornery for the following reasons:
1. "What have you done for me lately" attitude. If you complete a big server upgrade making everyone's life easier most employees offer "its about damn time" as thanks.
2. If a system performs poorly it is automatically IT's fault, no one seems to know or care that management/accounting hasn't released the funding to upgrade/replace the system.
3. Users who have little knowledge of how to operate their computers and no desire to learn, they have the IT on speed dial and aren't afraid to call. These users, even though they may be completely polite, will call with the same questions day after day. You have to duck and roll Jackie Chan style past these user's cubes on your way to the restroom because they WILL stop you to ask some inane question that you've probably answered 5 times.
4. If a trucking company hires a truck driver the driver is expected to have knowledge of how to drive his truck and troubleshoot basic problems that may arise. Is he expected to be a mechanic? No. A competent and educated operator of an expensive piece of machinery? Yes. No so for computer users.
5. Users have no idea of what goes on behind the scenes in IT nor do they care. I can't think of the last time someone thanked me for the 3 months of uptime our Exchange server has had but the sales guy down the hall who brought on a single new account gets attaboys and back slaps galore.
If someone is mistreated and kicked around enough eventually they are going to avoid contact with their tormentors, this is why IT people get a rep as antisocial hermits.
For many IT people it is almost a tough love situation with their users. If someone is having a real problem or is the type of person who is willing to learn and try to resolve things on their own they are going to have a positive relationship with IT.
Users from the #3 category above are going to have a less than positive experience. They are going to receive less then cheerful service when they call for the 5th time because a 37GB e-mail attachment won't go through or because they are at home and their laptop won't connect to the neighbor's unsecured wireless network. It is human nature to be a curt with someone like this in order to convey a sense of frustration and hopefully train the user next time to use their common sense and training.
Did you just hold up police officers as an ideal of professionalism?! Doctors as full of grace?! You couldn't have picked worse.
Police are often rude (to me, a white professional - I hear it is much worse if you are brown, black, muslim, etc.) and Doctors are notorious for overbooking, not listening to patients, and millions of mistakes per year. Hardly shows respect for your customers to make them wait for hours, misdiagnose after acting impatiently, then mix up their meds and nearly kill them.
Shit, at least if IT screws up nobody gets shot. Nobody gets a sponge left in them.
Man, you really need that seminar!
I worked in a large company as a help desk guy for several years. Most of the offices in the company were happy with their IT support. The IT staff was highly qualified. The IT managers were very good. The network admins that supported the servers did a great job. The WAN engineer guys did a great job. The IT Directors were brilliant when it came to figuring out ways to keep the end-user population happy. I realize this might be the exception rather than the rule. I feel fortunate to have worked in a good IT environment.
I used to work for the IT dept at a large corporation. I was always nice to people and as helpful as I could be. I never tried to make them feel stupid.
Now I work for one of the OTHER corporate departments, doing a lot of the normally "unsupported" IT work. All the other departments are constantly offering me jobs to try to get me to move to their departments. I make twice as much as I would in the IT dept. My bosses think I walk on water, and I am left alone much of the time to develop whatever projects I want.
All because I was that "nice" guy in IT.
I don't know on which planet you are living (and I will not check your blog or whatever to find out, talk about easy self promotion).
Doctors are some of the most hardened people you will find (they have to be), and some go too far to the point of not caring anymore for their patients.
I have plenty of histories about doctors but I only want to make the point that the poster has chosen the wrong profession to contrast IT people in a bad light.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
I've posted a rebuttal to some of the more heated arguments to my article on the web site. The link is available from the original essay.
Enjoy.
-DT
"Please - a little less love, and a little more common decency." -Kurt Vonnegut
Add to it the fact that even THOSE girls would never touch a CS guy, and are probably into the same guys that kicked the shit out of us as teenagers, and CS girls are lucky that they don't get lynched when they walk in the door.
I'm not saying that it's fair, or right, but that's how it is. It's like going to Iran with an American flag stitchd to your backpack, wearing a crucifix, and humming the American anthem as you walk around. It's not fair or right that you'll get stabbed to death in an alley by someone whose family was killed by American-made chemical weapons during the Iran-Iraq war, but that's just how it is. Guilt-by-association is a very fundamental aspect of Human psychology, and there's absolutely no getting around it.
In my experience as an IT professional, it seems that part of the problem stems from the qualities that create great IT talent. The same people who delve into technology nonstop spend little time developing interpersonal communication skills and come out a little bit unbalanced. Couple in the theory that geeks display a sort of mild autism, as well as exhibiting a general passive-aggressive nature, and some dissent is bound to be generated from both the IT staff and the people who interact with them.
These individuals can still be very efficient in their roles, but in some cases it is helpful to have another employee in place to buffer communications between the IT department and the rest of the organization. Let the IT people do what they're good at: managing the technology. Let the pseudo-proxy person(s) deal with the communication side of the IT game.
On the flip side of the coin, businesses are rarely presented with an aspect of operation that breaks quite as often as technology. It can also be frustrating to IT staff when the cause of the problem was inherently unpreventable. You end up with frustrated employees on both sides of the fence, and sparks fly. If your building's electrical system malfunctioned as much as technology does, you'd most likely cuss the maintenance staff the same way that some individuals cuss IT staff. If the electrical problem was caused by an employee, or was just a random failure, your maintenance staff would probably end up clashing with your other employees as well.
There's not a clear solution to the problem, but developing the relationship between IT and the rest of the organization is always a good step in the right direction.
...it's management. But customers get the dirty end of the stick because no one is allowed to criticize management and live. After all, there are so many software people out there, and they're all pretty much identical, right?