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Canada Immune From RIAA?
Nick McKay writes "Tech Central Station is carrying a story on how Canadians are legally allowed to copy music not only in the home environment, but also on P2P networks such as Kazaa."
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It seems as if Canada has become the land of the free, while the United States has become seemingly less thrilling to live in. I, for one, would be glad to be able to make legal copies of music and other goods, and only having to pay a small tax on media and (possibly) computer products. This would make it much easier to pay the RIAA and similar evil organizations, and would keep P2P infurioratingly legal.
... you know where to go. No more 3rd-world country that nobody has every heard of (Hurray!)
I have a feeling that emigration to Canada will become increasingly more common if it gets to the point where if you have a file on your computer that may have possibly originated from a P2P network or other illegal source, you could pay hefty fines and jail terms. Will Canada border-hopping now include underage drinking and underage stealing? You decide. So, now if you want to escape the U.S. Justice system
The only problem with this method is that companies cannot track who owes them how much, and which companies get the bigger share of the chunk of taxes. Why not have it so that, people report how many songs they downloaded and what they are, and that determines their tax (or refund, if they haven't downloaded anything). Then, the companies can easily divvy out the money to one another (but some companies will like the equal-split method better * wink wink *)
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Orppf urp mf y.ppcxn. yflcbi otcnnov C am yflcbi yr n.apb Ekrpatv (Dvorak -> Qwerty)
"Canada Immune From RIAA?"
Being that the last letter in RIAA stands for "America", I would hope that all nations outside of the US are immune..
Trolling is a art,
Wow....I bet a Canadian company could make a fortune selling high speed Internet access to those in the US, Or possibly just a high speed proxy service.
Then when the RIAA asked them for the user of the IP that is 'stealing' their music...they could tell them to take a flying leap.
Any bets as to how long it will take some enterprising Canadian to come up with this business model?
Or as to how long before the RIAA starts buying off memebers of Canada's parliment, the way that they buy our Senators and Representatives?
Just wait until the RIAA defeats the evil doing filesharers in the US first. Then, they will send the armies of lawyers to Canada and anywhere else music is shared freely.
C:\>
To quote Jay Currie (emphasis mine):
Audio recording media is defined as "Analog Audio Casette Tapes," "MiniDisc, CD-R Audio and CD-RW Audio" and "CD-R and CD-RW." [2] This does not include hard drives (I recall discussion of extending the levy to hard drives), so therefore your hard drive is not "audio recording media" and thus the Act does not legalize file sharing.
This being said, it would be harder to argue if you immediately burned the downloaded songs to an audio CD, promptly deleting the copy on your hard drive.
The USA is not the centre [center] of the known universe. In some parts of some people don't care about baseball. One or two people don't know what Gilligan's Island was. Quite a few people spell color with a "u".
Har Har Har... Told ya!
reciprocal recognition of judgments treaty with the United States. However, that doesn't mean that their courts have to recognize a judgment that goes against their public policy. It also doesn't keep them from getting a default judgment against you or waiting until you reenter the country to try to serve you with process.
Wait a sec, I am Canadian. Never mind.
I am proud to be a Canadian. Especially after seeing Bowling for Columbine... makes you think huh!
I know it is a nitpick, but it always bugs me that there are so many countrys in American and the USA is implied by the word America...
"I'll have a Guinness, no wait, make that a Coors Light" -Grad student I work with, who shall remain anonymous...
Lax marijuana laws? Check.
Can marry another man if for some reason I was feeling saucey? Check.
and now freedom to share music?
Are they accepting applications??
Read the act more carefully. Back-ups of any and all digital media for personal use is absolutely covered.
I am from a small, grease-loving country in the north called Ca-na-da.
Since ya'all haven't read the article, and this thing has been out for a long time - understand that every single person in Canada pays a tax which goes in a fund for the labels, which basically pays for this - it has been suggested that we adopt something similar here, but of course, the RIAA doesn't seem to think it is fair.
The amendment to the Act legalized copying of sound recordings of musical works onto audio recording media for the private use of the person who makes the copy (referred to as "private copying"). In addition, the amendment made provision for the imposition of a levy on blank audio recording media to compensate authors, performers and makers who own copyright in eligible sound recordings being copied for private use.
Looks the same as fair use in the U.S.A. Moreover, the author of this article says that the DMCA is what makes file sharing illegal in the U.S.A. This isn't true, and probably hints at the level of understanding the author has of the situation. Unfortunately, people are going to start believing this. The author could be sued.
"sure it does canada is just another big US state like Wisconsin or Minnesota...."
Canada is bigger in area then the USA, and the 3rd largest country in the world...so read it and weep.
Is Canada also a good place for developing and distributing Free Software without any need to worry about US software patents?
Greetings,
Norbert.
Ohhhhhhh CAAAANAADAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!
Our home and native land!!!!
w00t!
Does this guy know how many megabytes are on a typical CD-R? or on a new hard drive? Let's see, the tax on a new 120Gig drive would be, what, $1200?
since there have been the obligatory anti-M$, anti-RIAA, and anti-SCO articles. The evil trinity has appeared so I can go back to work now...
In order for the recording industry to receive any benefit from a tax on recording media, the government (or taxing agency) would then have to return some or all of the tax revenues to the artists.
You do that, and you're reducing many recording artists to a sort of farmer: a subsidized industry member. But at least farmers can quantify the amount of subsidies they receive; how would the government decide how much revenue to pass along to each artist?
Not to mention all the "unfair" taxing on media which never see a single byte of music.
William
When you're not looking, this sig is in Latin.
Therefore even if you own the CD, you have absolutely no right to transfer it to a different format. With your CD, you purchase a right to listen to that music on that medium only. You do not have any rights to transfer it to any other medium. There is no provision in law to allow you to do so.
Having said that, MP3 players are sold and the BPI (our equivilant of the RIAA) have stated that they have "no plans" at the moment to go chasing people who do download and transfer music from CD's to other mediums.
I know Slashdot isn't a hot-bed of legal eagles, but does anyone know of anything different? This somewhat spooks me a little that the CD I purchased cannot be legally transfered to my mp3 player for the gym.
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
Hey Nick McKay and Tech Central Station: SHUT UP.
This was one of our best kept secrets..
Thanks for waving the proverbial red cape in front of the raging bull (RIAA).
S
Blame Canada!
$#!^ happens, but why does it always have to happen to me???
So that means every time you buy a CD to backup your Word documents, or photos, or home movies etc you pay a $0.77 tax which ends up going to the music industry.
They give it with one hand and take it with the other.
Sorry, but my karma just ran over your dogma.
but we can own a small amount of marijaunna (assuming the cop who sees it, isn't a dick, otherwise you might have a small fine), also homosexuals may soon be allowed to get married. Oh Canada!
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Support Indy Music. Buy
Actually, all the stories here are posted by users. Try submitting the story yourself before complaining. Thanks!
Yeah, that business model worked real well for ICraveTV.com!
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
The example given is that of person A owning a CD and sharing it over p2p, and person B downloading it as a private copy. Now what if person B shares it again, and person C downloads it as a private copy. Canadian law says the first generation copy was legal, but what about the second generation copy? Would that be legal as well?
The levy is the main reason that I bring CDs as souvenirs from other countries.
v y_FAQ.html#1.
BTW, the numbers in the article are incomplete. We pay 21 cents per data CD-Rs, 77 cents per minidisk/CD-R audio and 29 cents per tape http://pcbuyersguide.com/hardware/storage/2003_Le
Because not only does it piss off the RIAA and MPAA, it also can be proved as a model some where down the line when a lawsuit comes up. They can point to Canada and say look their wasn't any or much of a loss of record sales.
I have not problem with large corporations, but once they start picking on old people and children, then I think somebody needs to take them out back and smack them around a little. -- Play Ground Rules aren't just for Elementary School --
Nick
The blank CD levy was a tradeoff that gives Canadians very specific rights:
I can borrow a friend's CD and copy that CD onto a blank.
There's nothing about P2P networks, and until the levies come in on hard drives (in the works) I don't see how any copying involving hard drives can be considered covered.
From the article:
"In Canada, if I own a CD and you borrow it and make a copy of it that is legal private copying; however, if I make you a copy of that same CD and give it to you that would be infringement. Odd, but ideal for protecting file sharers.
Every song on my hard drive comes from a CD in my collection or from a CD in someone else's collection which I have found on a P2P network. In either case I will have made the copy and will claim safe harbor under the "private copying" provision. If you find that song in my shared folder and make a copy this will also be "private copying." I have not made you a copy, rather you have downloaded the song yourself.
Note the bolded text -- "CD". P2P files are not CDs! Even if they come from a CD, they aren't on a CD when you copy them, and so you're not covered by the levy.
Comments?
"The market alone cannot provide sufficient constraints on corporation's penchant to cause harm." -- Joel Bakan
So what do the artists get out of this? The users pay, the RIAA collects, but who gets royalties? Considering the history of the recording industry not paying royalties correctly, I very much doubt that they will pay out any royalties to ANYONE when there is no hard proof that the song was copied at all.
Once again, the artist is screwed.
"Well it's not Victory - but then it's not Death either."
Third? What country grew big enough to bump us from number two?
As the air to a bird or the sea to a fish, so is contempt to the contemptible -W.B.
Sorry, it is full of popups. Using Netscape with popups off you're OK but from IE you'll get screens full. Sorry, sorry...
$#!^ happens, but why does it always have to happen to me???
Second to Russia.
I seriously doubt it would take very long for the canadian government, and Shelia Copps to cave in to the demand of music labels.
She recently raised the "tape tax" as it has become known as to include Hard Drives, Flash Cards, etc. When people went to object we found that she had written it up so that we could protest, but it would do no good - the decision was already made. I was not happy at the time.
But reflecting on it, maybe she did know something the rest of us didn't know at the time. Then again this is Shelia Copps we're talking about. The second the labels complain, that will be the end of our loophole.
Another reason to move to Canada besides the fact that they have REAL ELECTIONS!!
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
According to the article, 70 million dollars was generated with the Candanian levy. I would be willing to bet that none of that money went to any artist.
Screw file trading. Canada is more free in ways that *really* matter, like drugs. In Canada, if you want to ingest pot, you can without being arrested by jack-booted Ashcroft thugs and thrown in prison for the rest of your life. On that same subject, their gov't isn't still feeding them the "Reefer Madness" bullshit from the 20's.
Canada seems to be a lot better in other ways too. Just watch "Bowling for Columbine"...
"So, how much would it cost to buy this land called 'Canada'?"
In maoist china russia is bigger than you! And vice versa!
http://nationmaster.com/graph-T/geo_are_lan
yeah only if you're dumb enough to buy the stuff labelled as "music discs"
;)
I can get a 100 "data" CD spindle for about $30 CDN. What? It's not meant for music you say? Well let me be the judge of that
If you are going to correct someone, at least learn how to spell the term correctly. It's "levy".
p.s. nice plug. very subtle
As the RIAA's "sue your customer" campaign begins to run into stiffening opposition and serious procedural obstacles it may be time to think about a "Plan B". A small levy on storage media, say a penny a megabyte, would be more lucrative than trying to extract 60 million dollars from a music obsessed, file sharing, thirteen year-old.
That sounds like an acceptable price point for me. Assume that the average MP3-encoded track is 1MB/minute, and the average track is 5 minutes long. That's a tax of $0.05 per track. The average album would then be taxed a total of $0.50. But because any track downloaded via p2p is considered a legitimately owned track, $0.50 is the total cost to the consumer -- unless they're the one who originally purchased the CD.
If what they're proposing is to drop the cost of music to $0.50/CD, I'm all for it. Lord knows how they would enforce the "penny per megabyte" of music owned, but it would be cheap enough for all consumers to come into compliance. And with the wider (i.e. global) audience they could reach, they'd probably make more $$ than they do now.
Sadly, even if this were to pass, I doubt any more of that money would trickle down to the artists. But it's partly their fault for agreeing to crappy contracts, or not exploring the idea of digital media distribution. As long as I'm in compliance and I'm playing by the RIAA's rules, I could care less what happens to artists actually represented by the RIAA. If there were some way to compensate the artist directly, I'd do it........
Can I mod the headline down, whilst keeping the story up? ;)
This media levy pisses me off to no end - I've bought 100's of CD-R's over the years and I've used exactly 3 for music - and that was just for music that I already owned.
I don't want free music, I want cheaper recordable media! I'm not sure about this $0.77 per CD though - I'm sure i've bought CD's for $0.50 before on spindles.
This levy is utter B.S. I mean why not compensate SOFTWARE publishers as well as musicians? I wonder what the ratio is of pirated music vs. pirated software - especially if you take the MSRP of software - i mean it takes a lot of music CD's to equal the cost of one copy of 3ds MAX or Photoshop.
>Canada is bigger in area then the USA, and the 3rd largest country in the world...so read it and weep.
Not true. The second largest in area and by far the most coastline.
If I still had my mod points from yesterday, I would mod this up. The writer raises the same concern I have: ripping a CD constitutes making a copy. A copy may not be shared with others. Hence, any files on a P2P network are, de facto, illegal. Of course, if you wanted to set up a CD jukebox on your machine and share that...
Well, here in Canada, at birth through age 11. Not until age 12 do you become deemed criminally liable for your actions.
Makes for good human interest stories in the news fairly consistently about theiving car-stealing window-breaking 11 year old hellions...
*newscast* "Canada has been overrun by tech fans from all over the country. Many claim that they have 'slashdotted' Canada."
Canadian authorities are praying that their infastructure doesn't collapse, like all those other victims (servers, mostly) of slashdotting.
Still, this is just like Earth station 5, out of palistine. They can't do anything, and it is totally legal. All the RIAA can do is... Really support Israel? What next, the RIAA starts hosting anti canadian sentiments? Hilary Rosen runs for public office? (Gov. of California, most likely.)
Well, it seems that Canada has the same rules as most of the Europen countries.
This means, that you can copy any music/video for yourself, so downloading them off the internet is OK.
However, distribution of these is still considered to be copyright infringement, so uploading stuff for which you do not the rights to publish to P2P networks is still not OK and you can be sued for it.
As I understand, things work the same way in the USA, too.
Would someone please mod the article -1, Troll?
Real life is overrated.
I would like to direct your attention to the Private Copying section of the Canadian Copyright act here.
Specifically, 80.2(c) -- Subsection (1) [the private copying exception] does not apply if the act described in that subsection is done for the purpose of doing any of the following : (c) communicating to the public by telecommunication;
In order for file sharing as we know it to be legal, you would have to make the argument that putting something up on Kazaa is NOT communicating to the public by telecommunications.
I'm not saying it can't be done (indeed, I don't belive any of this has ever actually been tested in court), but good fucking luck.
Something like dc++ with a private hub between friends would be a much less challenging scenario to argue, as the general public isn't involved.
Note that the intent of this law was that people would be able to share music (note that this ONLY applies to MUSICAL AUDIO RECORDINGS -- spoken word recordings, or even sound effect recordings (and certainly not video) aren't covered by this) with thier family and friends without it being illegal. Basically, they looked at the fact that most people would be considered criminals under the current laws, and decided that there's really no point in that, and used the situation as an excuse to find another way for the goverenment to get money out of people. But since you're Canadian, you're used to that by now.
Kazaa and such are not for that purpose -- they are intended to share music with the anonymous internet in exchange for getting music you want back from the anonymous interent. If you ever wind up in court, and try and defend yourself with this exception, the intent of the law is going to be taken into account by the judge.
All I know is, I would be very upset if they charged extra tax on blank CDs to give to artists when all I wanted to do was make Linux ISOs or backup my data. I quit buying from the RIAA and have quit the copying of mp3s. I don't want to support that organization any longer.
Canadians pay for the service and can share mp3s (or CDs and then make mp3 backups). But I don't want that service in the US. I can understand paying taxes for roads, military, schools, etc but music? No thanks.
In times like these, it is helpful to remember that there have always been times like these. - Paul Harvey
Co-Location Hosting in Canada up 500%.
2003-08-21 18:22:17 Music filesharing may be legal in Canada (articles,music) (rejected)
I am Canadian. I read Technews. I submitted this to Slashdot in August.
I guess I just go console myself with Gnucleus and legally download some more music. I would use pot, or perhaps do something in the gay community to console myself as well - but neither of those things appeal to me. Oh well, at least I still have Canadian beer!
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
We do have a group somewhat similar to the RIAA, called AVLA (Audio Video Licensing Agency). You can find out more about them at their web site. They claim to be a non-exclusive licensing agent, but they license all of Canada's recording companies and about 95% of other companies and people that copy music to play in public. Examples of this would include DJ services (I pay $250 CDN per year to license my hard drive full of MP3s that I of course ripped from CDs that I own), bars, radio stations, theatres and television studios. An interesting point in their DJ license for hard drives is that they DO NOT license the use of downloaded MP3s, or any modified version of original recordings not authorized by the recording company.
If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the precipitate.
I hate to break the news, but we've been paying the same tax since the mid 1980's. Al Gore was one of the sponsors of a digital revenue bill that passed back then. As a studio owner in Nashville, I got a copy of the bill before it was passed. It levied a tax on all blank media, not just digital, and a tax of up to $100. on all digital recorders imported into the US. I don't know if that's the final version that passed, but it did pass. one phrase that stuck out to me was that the revenues generated would go into a pool which would be split up among artists "after due administrative costs have been deducted". All I know is that I've paid that tax on every cassette, DAT, reel of tape, and CD-R that I've used since then, even though my business(radio commercials) involves only releasing content created by me.
Being that the last letter in RIAA stands for "America",
Which one stands for "Artists?" Hmm, interesting. How about the MPAA? Surely one of those A's stands for "Artists," no?
Then why do they keep mentioning them in the commercials? <MAUDE_FLANDERS>Won't somebody puh-leeeease think of the Artists!<MAUDE_FLANDERS>
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
Says who?!?? There's plenty of people that are opposing this, not just manufacturers: here and and here, there's plenty more. Plus I've sent letters to whatever MP I could contact.
It's had some effect, since the 'new' rates were supposed to be introduced in Jan 2003.
I'm hardly 'indifferent' about it!
AC comments get piped to
Here's the proof... Here's more proof... Here's even more proof... Seriously, don't delude yourself. Canada is not by any stretch of the imagination the utopia you imagine it to be. Not when the government continually grabs its cash, surveils its media, and assaults citizens protesting peacefully with no reasonable warning to leave.
This made me think of an interesting aspect of globalization and migration.
Governments are starting to realize that the future health of their nations depend on encouraging immigration (in the case of coountries with ageing populations) and discouraging emmigration (in the case of countries losing their citizens).
A large part of the USA's economic and political strength comes from its attractiveness to migrants, especially skilled migrants. Compare the USA's Green Card programme with the immigration programmes offered by EU countries...
Now, Canada is to many migrants as attractive as the US, just slightly colder, maybe. It certainly has a reputation as being more hospitable for political refugees than most EU countries.
P2P is just one of many civil liberties, but if one takes the value of migration to a logical extreme, won't we see future governments actively competing for skilled migrants, offering better legal systems, more civil liberties, easier integration, etc. etc.
It's an optimistic viewpoint, but perhaps globalization will bring competition into governance in a way never seen before. Living in a country is, after all, a vote and an investment.
Ceci n'est pas une signature
for the hairy smelly putrid ass kissing dog licking dirt sucking shit eating grinning hole in the head turd flipping inbread hippo humping kentucky fried love of God....
its copyright infringment - it is not stealing, damnit. the SCOTUS has made that clearer than the hole in your head.
guns kill people like spoons make Rosie O'Donnell fat.
- Booze and TOTALLY NAKED women in our strip clubs
- Toronto (much like NYC I think) allows women to walk around topless (not that any do, but the possibility is there)
- Casinos popping up all over the place
- An increasingly larger separation of Church and State (hence the allowed gay marriages)
- Better beer
- Cheaper CDs, DVDs, computer hardware, software, and just about any other form of entertainment
- Cheaper medicine
Of course, a lot of this is paid for with much higher taxes, user fees, levies, and the fact we all live in igloos and have to hunt baby seals once the snow starts in August.
- In hell, treason is the work of angels.
is legal and P2P is not. Aren't they same thing. I mean when I was younger, everyone could just copy tunes off the radio. Oh, I forgot that radio stations pay a fee to play the songs. I guess that is how a radio is legal and P2P is not. But if I record a tune off the radio and put on a CD and never ever pay for it, am I a pirate, thief and racketeer. If I copy all every song off the radio onto my pc and then start a web site where people can download for free I guess that would put me in the whosgou( SP) , ie jail. So I can copy songs as long as I do not share them. The Radio can share them with me but not share the blame when I copy them to the internet.
I think I starting to see their point. P2P does not allow the record companies a fee based system for them to get their cut when I share the song with others. I can only share a song with those in the listening area and if I allow others to know about what I like via P2P I am a criminal. But I geuss if I paid the RIAA a fee for each play, I would be ok even if I do not make any money. WOW I guess I should play any music and the RIAA will be happy.
Lets all stop playing music and we will be safe from the RIAA. I do not want the RIAA to come after me if I play my CDs for to many people.
On Sept 10th I received several IM's on my k-lite from CRIA (google cache). They seemed to be under the impression that I was somehow breaking the law and needed a reminder of that. The notice came across as well-intentioned and non-threatening, just an appeal to traders of mp3's to think about the poor artists and how wonderful the industry is.
If anyone is interested in reading the message text I could post it, just ask.
"Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality." -- Dalai Lama
The term 'American' does indeed tend to refer to someone from the USA. That is true in many places...
However, there are these larger areas in most (6/7) cases containing more then one country called continents and Canada is part of North America along with the USA and Mexico. Amazing, huh? It's too bad the RIAA picked such a nebulas term for its name- but perhaps they do have members in Canada and Mexico. I won't even mention South America.
Man, Canada is a heaven.
I mean, when the draft comes around, move there!
When the RIAA comes around, move there!
when disease comes around. Thank god for Canada's medical care.
-Grump
Is it true that more people vote for the winner of American Idol, than vote for the president? -Ali G.
To think that they could make just as much money from levying a tax and spend less time aggrevating their customers seems so foreign to them that it must be a Canadian thing, huh?
Much of the World (especially Europe) has the same attitude. People will do what people will do. Let them. Get over it. Find a way to compensate or accept it.
Instead, in the US the prevailing notion is to resolve by bullying and brute force. How young and inexperienced a country the US is. As strong as it is, it still hasn't learned how to play nice with others.
"Last one in is a rotten goblin!" - Kepp
Don't forget that due to the WTO a lot of laws that apply only to one country become unilateral due to the trade agreement.. Circumventing each countries sovereignty in the process.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
http://www.pressepapiers.net/archives/2003/08/21/p rivate_copying.html... discusses the legal flaws in the article.
Stupid people make stupid things profitable.
Audio Cassettes (40 minutes or more in length): 29 cents
CD-R or CD-RW: 21 cents
CD-R Audio, CD-RW Audio or MiniDisc: 77 cents
So the actual levy on CD-R/RW is 21 cents, not 77 cents.
I believe the Copyright Board is considering a proposed increase in the levy on CD-R/RW to 59 cents per CD and applying the levy to hard drives, blank DVDs and memory cards. No decision has been made and I honestly believe the Copyright board will back down from the proposed levy on hard drives and other computer related media since industry outcry has been substantial. The obvious benefit to the levy is I can legally borrow and make a copy of a friend's CD for my own personal use and know that I am not committing a crime.
Many people in Canada are also not aware that you can apply for an exemption from the levy if your primary use of the levied media falls under certain categories. So companies such as the one I work for have an exemption from the levy since we only use blank CDs for in-house software.
Canadian libraries also reimburse authors for every time their books are checked out, and musicians every time their CDs are checked out.
Seems like Canada ("A loft apartment over a really great party" - Robin Williams, 2002) has a much better idea about how to keep authors and musicians performing and creating.
Eh?
There is nothing wrong with yr Internet. Do not attempt to adjust the picture. We are controlling the transmission - NSA
nice link, try mine. http://nationmaster.com/graph-T/geo_are_tot
As the air to a bird or the sea to a fish, so is contempt to the contemptible -W.B.
And don't forget, that's only to the RIAA. 120gb/700mb = ~171 1CD dvdrips, I'm sure the MPAA will want that covered too. Or 171 appz ISOs, the BSA would want money for that. Or was that gamez ISOs? Nevermind what the E-book companies can charge you for, I don't want to think about how much a HDD full of e-books are worth.
RIAA is trying real hard to get a monopoly on taxing digital media. No matter what you use it for, they get money for nothing. I'm surprised they manage to get away with it as well as they do.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
"Only in Canada you say? ... Pity"
If you have a band, and you sell your own music, the music industry takes a $0.77 cut from every CD-R you burn and sell. The music industry gets paid for ALL content up here, not just their own.
We Canadians don't pay $0.77 for each blank CD we buy -- only for blank AUDIO CDs. The blank Audio CDs can be bought in audio stores for much more money and have some magic bit pre-burned or whatever. Normal DATA CDs that don't have this audio flag on them won't work in consumer audio CD burners that go in your stereo, only in computer burners.
Next -- this law may legalize downloading from P2P, but does NOT legalize making your copy publicly available on P2P systems, which is all the recording industry cares about anyhow. That would be a "public performance" or "publishing" or "distribution" -- none of which are legal.
Oh, and just for the record, pot isn't legal here. You just get a ticket now instead of a court date. This means that the cops will no longer be ignoring pot because of the paperwork burden, and the likelihood of potsmokers getting busted has gone UP.
Extradition treaties apart, whatever you did has to be illegal in both countries. This is the principle of Dual Criminality.
.....
Sovereignty means that a country is allowed to decide for itself what is legally acceptable within its borders. There are very, very few exceptions to this principle, and they have to be enforced by international treaty -- for instance, torture is illegal under the laws of many countries even if it took place in another country which signed the same treaty. Dual Criminality was the whole deal with why Pinochet got off being extradited to Spain -- because his acts were not crimes according to British law at the time when he committed them. {They should have tried to fit him up him for shoplifting or some similar petty crime. The Met., or the West Midlands police, wouldn't have thought twice about that. Then he could have been extradited and tried in Spain.}
If you live in country A, but while visiting country B you do something which is forbidden in country A but perfectly acceptable according to the laws of country B, then there is nothing anyone in country A can do about it when you return.
If a Briton visits the Netherlands for the purposes of prostitution and narcotics {a.k.a. a poke and toke trip} then there is nothing the British authorities can do -- well, maybe deny him a Dutch visa before he went, except seeing as both Britain and The Netherlands are in the EU, then no visa is necessary for travel within the EU. If an Arab or Pakistani visits a country where drinking alcohol is legal, then there is nothing that can legally be done to them when they return home {though I'd still be sucking Polos all the way just in case. Some people have a reputation for exceeding their authority}.
Similarly, if an American visits Canada and downloads music in strict accordance with Canadian law, then returns to the USA without taking any downloaded material with them, then the US authorities are not legally allowed to take any action. It's all there in the Constitution; due process, innocent until proven guilty, no self-incrimination and so forth. Anything the RIAA tried against anyone filesharing in Canada would constitute an excess of authority. It could be construed as an attempt to undermine Canadian sovereignty. There's a word for that, and it both rhymes with, and is an anagram of, "raw"
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
Sure, this levy _may_ provide some so far untested court protection for 'file sharers', but it is extremely unpopular at our local LUG with those who backup their data to media that are covered by the levy.
Parliament already has plans to expand the list of media covered by the levy to hard drives, flash memory, and mp3 players and at the same time they plan to raise the per MB fee. This will _significantly_ raise the cost of recordably media for all computer users whether they are file sharers or not.
At pennies a MB you can kiss your 200GB hard drive goodbye, so long iPod, and whoah look at the cost of digital cameras! And all because our local music industry has convinced Canadian parliament that we are _all_ guilty of trading music online and that enforcing the previously existing laws that assumed innocence until proven guilty would be too expensive.
Don't get me wrong, there is plenty not to like about the RIAA, their tactics, and the DMCA but don't be fooled into thinking it's all sunshine on this side of the border.
Are they that lax? When I looked into the recent publicity campaign surrounding the new decriminalization laws, it didn't sound all that lax to me, merely becoming what many American states have now.
Where I live, around 42 grams (1.5 oz) is considered a petty misdemeanor and the Canadian law didn't seem much if any better than that.
From the hype, it made is sound like Canada was doing Dutch-style decriminalization, which would be awesome, especially since I live ~3 hours from the border. Plus it would be chaos for the American drug control people, since it would likely flood the US with dope.
This was written under the assumption that Canada is a puppet of the US, which we have proven time and time again that we aren't, since we can legalize pot, gay marriages, deal with disease outbreaks without calling it terrorism, not attack poor defenseless countries while snubbing the countries that do, and yet, despite all this, have the most powerful economy in the G8.
I think its time people stop grouping Canada UNDER the US. We've evolved past that nonsense so that nazi regimes like the RIAA can't touch us.
One man's misunderstanding coudl quickly become another's admission into the prison queen hall of fame. Personally I think Mr. Currie misunderstands the meaning behind where the original files can come from. I think you'll find that even Canada will eventually rule that you can only make copies from the original CD if and only if you own it. Canada is part of the WIPO and as such all members will eventually have to standardize their copyright laws. Why do you think the US extended its copyright terms to life of author plus 70 years? Disney might get the blame but in reality it was to bring the European and US terms into balance. Disney simply went along.
As in The RIAA, Eh?
(Sorry)
What Would Jesus Do
(for a Klondike bar)?
Who cares about APEC? I do. The government completely swept that under the rug, and nothing ever really happened to that thug cop. It could happen again, because nothing's been really done to address the problems inherent in the RCMP. Photo radar in Edmonton is growing in use, not shrinking. The government needs the money because Albertans aren't as highly taxed as you BC folks. That's also despite the doubling of fatalities. But you failed to even address what happened to those reporters. You know that Janice Johnston now works as the PR person for Medic Alert? I think she would've tried to continue to be a reporter if the cops hadn't screwed her and those other two over. Looks like the police have a hell of a hold on people in this country.
Salon.com (I know, I know, it's the bane of everyone's existance) had an interesting article about the increasing number of Americans joining us up here in the so-called Great White North (or Damp Grey North, as I like to call it). I would provide a link, but they've moved the file and I can't find it the new location (how sad is that?). My ISP, Eastlink, has no problems with people file-sharing, and offers suggestions on how to reduce your bandwidth usage, as we have a 30 GB transfer limit per month. In general, I find it absolutely sickening that American government is letting corporations get so much control over the basic rights of their citizens. Canadian TV and radio might suck, but at least we have our freedom. :)
Still, I don't forsee in the near future that Canadians will be at risk of lawsuits for filesharing. Firstly, there is no legal requirement as in the U.S. for an ISP to provide user information to the CRIA (Canadian version of RIAA). Secondly, the political will to implement such a law, or to do anything for that matter isn't there.
In November, the Liberal Party will be appointing Paul Martin as new leader, but Jean Cretin will not be stepping down as PM until Feb 2004. Basically the government will be at a standstill until Martin takes over power. That gives the government about 1 year to prepare for re-election, surely they aren't going to piss off a large percentage of the population right before an election.
It will probably be mid to late 2005 before anything similar to the DMCA is established here in Canada. Until then, the chance that Canadians will receive lawsuits like the ones in the U.S. is quite low. A good ISP that doesn't have any conflicts of interest with a media firm, will probably not disclose their customers' information to anyone who can try a lawsuit which for all intents and purposes would be unproven in Canadian law.
"A small levy on storage media, say a penny a megabyte, would be more lucrative than trying to extract 60 million dollars from a music obsessed, file sharing, thirteen year-old."
That's about $7 per CD-R, and $40 per DVD-R?!!! BOVINE SCAT!!!
Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced. - Geek's corollary to Clarke's law
The article suggests a "small" levy of a penny a megabyte for storage media as an alternative to suing filesharers. I'm sure the RIAA would love that but I'd rather leave things as they are than pay a tax of $7 for a blank CD, $40 for a blank DVD, or $1200 for a new HD, especially since I'm not downloading music.
I worked in record stores for a while, and I began to notice that the CD-R's designated by the manufacturer (eg. Maxell) as being expressly for copying music were much more expensive than CD-R's intended for data storage. Even if the brand is the same. I asked why this should be, and a co-worker pointed out that the infamous Canadian anti-copying tax only applied to the former, not the latter.
Now, I am sure that both kinds of CDs work equally well for copying data or music. But some CD-Rs put out by the 'non-white-label' manufacturers explicitly specify on the package that they are only 'for music.' Apparently the levy only applies to these kinds of CD-Rs.
So, if my co-worker is correct, it sounds like you can easily avoid paying this tax. Can anyone confirm/deny?
"He'd be a broader guy if he had dropped acid once." - Steve Jobs on Bill Gates
in Canada, by legal definition, it is not staling...we get something (copies of music) in exchange for financial compensation (taxes levied specifically for the copyright holders)...the only thing that makes it look like stealing is that it ended up being a REALLY bad deal for the music companies...they sure thought it was a cash cow when they argued to get those very laws enacted though...
When all of your wishes have been granted, many of your dreams will be destroyed - Marilyn Manson
Well companies have been doing it for some time its called 'globalization'---- live in one state, Canada - for the free downloads, and Buy in a different one, the US for cheap CD's & CDR's---- but whats the betting that now people, rather than corporations can do it the loophole gets closed, incidentally, and maybe a bit offtopic, the UK used to be known by the car industry as 'Treasure Island' due to the high prices, now there is a sizable 'net industry importing cheap cars from the continent
boycott-riaa.com reported on this several months ago. However, I just though of something. What if I could select an ISP in Canada? My traffic would all look like it originates from there, and the DMCA subpenas would be useless against a canadian owned IP. Any comments on the technical aspects? It would definately be worth an extra 10 bucks if I could find some way to do it.
Canada fell to 8th place behind the United States in the UN rankings.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
See, that's funny, because Canada (is possibly the only country to?) already fought off an American invasion of conquest.
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
I'm Canadian too, and don't get me wrong, I love it here. And I love Bowling for Columbine and agree with most of what Moore has to say. But it's worth noting that he has specifically said that he uses Canada as a "straight man" to show what the US is doing wrong. He exaggerates how good our country is. There was a good quote from him, something like this: "If I was making a movie about Canada, it would be about how you're tearing down health care, and slowly taking apart your welfare system". Remember, Canada has its own problems. Finally, as far as I'm concerned, it's really silly to be proud of your nationality. Why? Because it's not exactly your choice. If you were born here, you didn't choose to be. And if you immigrated, you weren't guaranteed admission. So don't be proud to be Canadian. It's not a personal accomplishment, even if it is a good thing. It seems to me that the equivalence of personal and national identity is one of the things we frequently bitch about with the US, probably for good reason. So stop being so patriotic. It's not worth it.
The CPCC levy isn't the only reason why private copying via P2P networks is not a legal problem in Canada. There are privacy laws (about which the US has already complained are a hinderance to their terrorist investigations) that prevent the RIAA from issuing subpoenas to Canadian ISPs demanding their logs and subscribers.
This doesn't mean that your file-sharing information is not inaccessible. If you're sharing music, you'll be fine--you're not in violation of Canadian law and practice. If you're sharing kiddy porn or hate literature, the Canadian police can get the data because you're involved in another crime.
The CBC has a brief article and opinion about this.
If the RIAA was to follow the lead of Canadian direct broadcast satellite providers, they'd make an appeal to morality to address their problem, since the laws here won't help them.
The Seventh Rule: Take others more seriously than yourself, particularly when you are leading them.
The Canadian Senate is appointed, not elected, and has no real legal power in Canada. It is a very very expensive rubber stamp, in effect. In addition, it is not like the US system of counterbalances where the House has "rep by pop" and the Senate has "rep by region".
A little known fact about Canada - Canada only got its full independence from England on April 17, 1982. Canada Day, which is July 1, 1867, created the Dominion of Canada, but the constitution of Canada was formally held until that day.
Since corperations vote with their dollars, I'd rather combat them by voting with my dollars. The more of my money my government depends on to represent me, the less my government needs/wants from corperations to represent *them*.
Neither system is perfect, but I really do think that the US is basically like Canada; only corperations are the benifactors of government-supported welfare (for things like entering foreign markets risk-free or controlling the market by 'purchasing' policy/law makers) instead of people.
With that said, it should be a free world. I don't think either system is 'right', but I'd rather be in Canada, and know what I'm paying upfront and what I'm getting for it, rather than fighting tooth and nail every day, everytime a corperate interest decides it wants the rules changed.
I see higher taxes as a form of insurance against corperate oligarchies, and I'm all too happy to pay as long as I believe it's working to a reasonable degree.
"Old man yells at systemd"
I'd like to calm the rhetoric. Sure, common sense would indicate the RIAA's copyrights have been violated. But copyright has been heavily legislated over the past century to the point that common sense or common law is nearly absent. It has such things as compulsory licences and device royalties. Morality should be confined to governing personal actions and advocating revisions to intellectual property law. It is disingenuous for the RIAA to invoke morality when if anything they have had excessive influence in crafting legislation.
IANAL but lets look at the law. Once you know the tokens, legalese is not usually harder to parse than APL :) Apologies for a
US-centric viewpoint but I believe a statutory situation exists in
all other common-law countries with different details. There's an
excellent copy of the United States Code, Title 17 - Copyrights at Cornell.
Chapter 10 covers DIGITAL AUDIO RECORDING DEVICES AND MEDIA .
Particularly interesting is:
Sec. 1008. - Prohibition on certain infringement actions... No action may be brought under this title alleging infringement of copyright based on the manufacture, importation, or distribution of a digital audio recording device, a digital audio recording medium, an analog recording device, or an analog recording medium, or based on the noncommercial use by a consumer of such a device or medium for making digital musical recordings or analog musical recordings
Simply breathtaking! The words "this title" mean Title 17, which contains all of US copyright law. The first "based on" means these things are not actionable as contributory negligence ("burglars tools"). The second "based on" means non-commercial use of these things does not violate copyright. Wow!
The definitions in Sec.1001 would seem to include computers. They sure are designed, advertised and used that way amongst others. But all is not [Guns'N'] roses. The manufacturers of these recording devices would seem to owe a device tax that gets paid through the Librarian-of-Congress (of all people!) to the RIAA as specified. There are also requirements related to the Serial Copy Management System. I trust that RIAA have settled this with their long-standing antagonists, appliance manufacturers, now including Dell, HP, et al. But even if not, how does it affect me?
The term "noncommercial use" would almost certainly cover receiving music files to make recordings on a hard-disk. Offering to transmit music files might not be covered and fall under the exceptionally byzantine Sec.114 as an "interactive service". But a lawyer specialising in Copyright law should be able to give a better interpretation including case precedents. The Diamond Rio MP3 player case is probably relevant. Is there a lawyer in the house?
I wonder if you could set up a company that derives most of its income from this "save a label" program. How does one qualify for the handout?
I think halo8 is Canadian?
"To alcohol, the cause of, and solution to, all of life's problems."
In Soviet America the banks rob you!
Who is (for better or worse) the most culturally influential power in the world today?
The USA is the exact opposite of "culturally influential"... it's a culture melting pot. Yea, there are "American" transnational corps all over the world, but that doesn't make the USA "culturally influential", that makes you "economically influential"... however, because there is such a lack of Culture in North America (minus Mexico... mostly Canada and USA), the line between "culture" and "the mall" is extremely blurred. I just got back from Hungary and Croatia, and the only "culture" you've "influenced" on them is "Burger King" and "McDonald's"... which goes back to my point... it's not culture, it's business. Big difference.
Who is the dominant military power in the world today?
This is interesting if we actually think about it... I haven't seen the USA get into war with an actual big mighty country since WW2... all I've seen the USA do militarily speaking is pick on 3rd world countries that don't really have (or should not have had) much of a chance... I'd like to know what the results would be if the USA went to war against a real competitor... but as it stands, the don't, and won't... so for the lack of evidence, we'll have to assume the USA is the dominant military power in the world today.
Who is the dominant economic power in the world today? Certainly not the USA right now... Bush has completely screwed the USA's economy... I might actually have to say the EU is the dominant economic power.
Who is the dominant political power in the world today? Hint: if you answered the same for military and economic it must be that power here.
This is also interesting... I would have to say the USA because recently they've showed us that they'll play by their rules and only by their rules. Screw the UN, or the World Court, or any other international political figure... if you play only by your rules, sure, of course you'll be the most dominant political power.
I think you're right about China and India though...
Audio cassettes 40 minutes or more in length: $.29 each
Audio cassettes less than 40 minutes long: $0
CD-Rs and CD-RWs (100 megabytes or more in capacity): $.21 each
CD-R Audio, CD-RW Audio and MiniDisc: $.77 each
Removable electronic memory card, removable flash memory storage medium of any type, or removable micro-hard drive: not covered
DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+RW, DVD-RAM or any other type of recordable or rewritable DVD: not covered
Non-removable electronic memory card or non-removable flash memory storage medium of any type incorporated into an MP3 player: not covered
Non-removable hard drive incorporated into an MP3 player or similar device ... primarily to record and play music.: not covered
Microcassettes (commonly used in dictating machines): $0
Digital audio tapes (DATs): $0
As you can see, the 77 cents people keep mentioning in their posts only applies to those CD-R specifically designated for recording audio, which nobody uses anyway (although there are some standalone audio CD recording units which require them).
What I find insulting is that I run a recording studio, and every single cd I buy for my own or my clients' music puts a little money into the pockets of people like Celine Dion and Avril Lavigne... although I recently discovered that, if you import CDs for your own use (i.e. buy them online from outside canada) the levy doesn't apply.
the prices listed in the article are WRONG !! CD-R's are only 5.2 cents. Unless you are dumb enough to buy Audio only cd-rs. Most ppl use regular CD-Rs that fall in the 5.2 cent catragory. straight from http://www.cb-cda.gc.ca/news/c19992000fs-e.html Analog Audio Cassette Tapes (of 40 minutes or more in length): 23.3 cents per unit MiniDiscs, CD-Rs Audio and CD-RWs Audio: 60.8 cents per unit CD-Rs and CD-RWs: 5.2 cents per unit
Well it seems fair to me that if major corporations can "move" to Bermuda to escape tax's etc. then citizens can "move" to Canada to escape RIAA lawsuits. I just hope the bloody RIAA doesnt get around to the UK - we're very comfortable with our free music/films thank you.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
"In fact, you could not have designed a law which more perfectly captures the peer to peer process. "Private copying" is a term of art in the Act. In Canada, if I own a CD and you borrow it and make a copy of it that is legal private copying; however, if I make you a copy of that same CD and give it to you that would be infringement. Odd, but ideal for protecting file sharers.
Every song on my hard drive comes from a CD in my collection or from a CD in someone else's collection which I have found on a P2P network. In either case I will have made the copy and will claim safe harbor under the "private copying" provision. If you find that song in my shared folder and make a copy this will also be "private copying." I have not made you a copy, rather you have downloaded the song yourself."
I disagree. The uploader's computer, is the one making the copy and sending it to the downloader. So it sounds like p2p sharing of copyrighted material is illegal in Canada.
Vote for Pedro
I've examined the Copyright Act before over this specific issue. While it is obvious that the Act permits, say, the copying of borrowed cds, it is not obvious that it allows large-scale peer-to-peer networks. Certainly a small P2P network consisting of friends and aquaintences would fall under "private copying", but transferring files to millions of random people can hardly be called "private" anything. There are sufficient grounds for a good legal fight over this.
At the same time, I don't expect the CPCC (~RIAA) to adopt the RIAA's tactics anytime soon. People here have a much more lassiez-faire attitude towards these things, and as long as they don't get totally out of control (ie : people still buy the odd cd they really want), the copyright holders probably won't try to fight an unwinnable war.
In Soviet America the banks rob you!
Maybe this is a good thing (seeing as how the American dollar is WAY more valuable than the Canadian dollar) Keep in mind though that the Canadian dollar is artificially kept low by the liberal feds for the purposes of exports.
-----------
Copying for Private Use
80. (1) Subject to subsection (2), the act of reproducing all or any substantial part of
(a) a musical work embodied in a sound recording,
(b) a performer's performance of a musical work embodied in a sound recording, or
(c) a sound recording in which a musical work, or a performer's performance of a musical work, is embodied
onto an audio recording medium for the private use of the person who makes the copy does not constitute an infringement of the copyright in the musical work, the performer's performance or the sound recording.
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply if the act described in that subsection is done for the purpose of doing any of the following in relation to any of the things referred to in paragraphs (1)(a) to (c):
(a) selling or renting out, or by way of trade exposing or offering for sale or rental;
(b) distributing, whether or not for the purpose of trade;
(c) communicating to the public by telecommunication; or
(d) performing, or causing to be performed, in public.
1997, c. 24, s. 50.
------------
Note the highlighted section. You cannot use P2P to share music in Canada. You may leech , but copying music for the purpose of offering it to the public is illegal.
Any note, your rights apply to all media, not just CDs. You can privately copy music for your Player Piano at last!
What does the law say about a Canadian who lived in the US, but ran a server in Canada to download music??? Anybody have an idea?
The whole idea of a hiden tax is a dangerous idea, at least for all of us that hate RIAA. Think about it. If we start to obsorb RIAA's multi-million dollar loss then we are simply supporting the people that we hate. What Canada has done has not solved the problems we American's have been struggling with RIAA over in Canada. Rather, from the comments of Canadian's, they are annoyed with the fact that millions have been raised to support them. Additionally, since /. seems to be in favor of the independent musicians and labels, it does not address that idea. Personally if RIAA started getting even a penny from from computer and other digital equipment because they fear lossing revenue then I will take it out on my congressman by voting against him.
A second thought: anybody find it interesting that when things get interesting in the US (Vietnam for example) we fleed to Canada? Just an observation. I guess if RIAA comes to the falacious conclusion that I am a file trader I will have to move to Canada. I can see the headline now: Thousands flock to Canada to escape RIAA.
The views expressed are mine own and do not express the views of my employer.
Please check out this link for a detailed analysis of the CD Levy law.
There are many reasons opposition is strong against the levy: it presumes you'll use a blank CD to copy music, it's expensive, none of the money has actually been distributed, and now that anti-copy CD are here it's pointless.
"The market alone cannot provide sufficient constraints on corporation's penchant to cause harm." -- Joel Bakan
I've just emailed the following to Jamie:
d -3 8328
-----
Jamie,
In your article dated August 18th, 2003, you've entirely misled the North
American public. Yes, the Copying for Private Use portion of Canadian
copyright act does permit copying of CDs, etc... however, you entirely
neglected to mention the limitation section of the bill, which I will now
quote for you:
"Limitation
(2) Subsection (1) does not apply if the act described in that subsection
is done for the purpose of doing any of the following in relation to any of
the things referred to in paragraphs (1)(a) to (c):
(a) selling or renting out, or by way of trade exposing or offering for sale
or rental;
(b) distributing, whether or not for the purpose of trade;
(c) communicating to the public by telecommunication; or
(d) performing, or causing to be performed, in public."
http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-42/38215.html#ri
I think any judge would deam P2P filesharing to be in violation of
Subsection (2)(b) and (2)(c). Perhaps a retraction is in order?
-----
So, sorry to burst all those Yankee bubbles, but Canada will not become the land of the Free Music anytime soon, since our laws too restrict P2P sharing.
As the RIAA's "sue your customer" campaign begins to run into stiffening opposition and serious procedural obstacles it may be time to think about a "Plan B". A small levy on storage media, say a penny a megabyte, would be more lucrative than trying to extract 60 million dollars from a music obsessed, file sharing, thirteen year-old.
Not particularly. Who here would pay $7 extra per CD-R (I can get them for less than a buck in Canada)? Or an extra $48 on DVD-R media? Americans would be outraged, and would import en-masse from outside of the country, probably from Canada.
Oh, wait, I get it now... Why didn't I think of that?
--Dan
His facts seem to agree with yours to me, assuming he is Canadian.
True genius is grasping a situation like a peice of fruit, and peircing it just right so that it drains dry.
I'm really tired of this "Freedom and free market crap". Not trying to troll here, so here me out. I think you'll find your Freedom only applies when it's convient for major corporations, and that the free market reigns supreme largely for less affluent Americans. The rich get laws passed in their favor (DMCA comes to mind, so does that little executive order of Bush's that lets oil execs off the hook for any nastiness in Iraq), they get government subsidies and garanteed loans, the get free trade when it's good for them and tarriffs when it isn't. Meanwhile my Brother's job is being sent to India while he tries to avoid sending my niece to an abysmal public school.
I want the government watching out for me. It's the only thing big enough to stand against corporations like the RIAA. If I go up against the RIAA, I'll get crushed. Just like those 261 poor bastards that're about to have their lives ruined. Simply put, it's in my best interests to have the goverment do something like this (and please dont' start arguing this isn't in my best intrests. It may not be, but letting the RIAA run rampant certainly isn't).
I guess what I'm saying is, I'm tired of seeing people get behind policies that screw them over in the name of a free market that doesn't really exist anyways.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Why is it when I read things like 'The Real Truth About ' I feel like I'm reading another propaganda piece by someone with an axe to grind?
I'm sure there's a good answer to this, but I don't understand the logic of the Canadian law where you can't make a copy of a cd and give it to your friend but you can give your friend your original cd and he can legally make a copy of it. I assume your friend can turn around and give his copied cd to another friend who could also legally copy it. The only thing that I could come up with is that the law is meant to deter you from making a large number of copies of the cd and distributing them to your friends i.e. it slows down the disribution of copied cds because you have to give the original or a legal copy to everyone that makes a copy. If that's the logic, the Canadian RIAA could argue that the law imposes a condition of a physical transfer of a legal cd as a prerequisite for making a legal copy and since there is no physical transfer in P2P filesharing the activity is illegal..
The article is quite clearly mistaken as regards peer-to-peer networks. The copying happens at the source peer, not the target peer. There has been caselaw about copying a program into RAM (e.g. running it) and onto a network (e.g. sharing an NFS installation of commercial software). That law would all come into play here.
...) If they really wanted to try it on, they'd compute using 32K mp3 too.
Also, hard disks aren't taxed yet, as has been pointed out. Do the figures, per useful-megabyte of storage. Of course they might even fiddle it by saying that the normal hard disk recording mode is mp3, and compute that per hour against casette tape, in which case an extra 540 dollars goes onto the price of a 120gb hard disk. ($.27 per hour, 60 megs per hour as mp3,
This is clearly a journalistic article and while it raises some points of merit, the respose here has been utterly disproportionate.
You are allowed to make a personal copy from an original, meaning you can borrow an original from a friend or the library and burn or rip all you want ([Canadians] pay for it when we buy blank CD-Rs).
From what I understand, you CANNOT copy the copy. See this for some details.
So if that follows, you can legally download from P2P *only if* it's an original. Since you typically have to rip it, it's already one generation away from the original.
In addition: this seems to indicate the resulting copy *has to* be on a medium for which you have paid the levy. To quote:
IANAL, and when it gets this complicated, I'm kinda glad for that...
Interestingly, the levy only applies to BLANK media. To sell a hard drive MP3 player, prerecord a little "welcome" tune on there, and you're off the hook.
SYS 64738 NO CARRIER
The cure would be to encourage more artists to post their music for a small fee, removing the cost of distribution and promotion; letting the art speak for itself. There are some signs of this happening in the US as the RIAA's draconian tactics drive more people away from the album formats preferred by the big studios.
But if the Canadian system taxes all blank media and gives the money to the big studios, they're short-circuiting that evolutionary process. I doubt the small-time artists with a few songs on the web are going to get any money from the media tax no matter how often their works are copied.
===== Murphy's Law is recursive. =====
I signed up for the ROTC ( Run Over To Canada) program in college but was rejected. They said something about military service?
drugs are the last peice of freedom you should be worried about, allright? thanks to cretien and his liberal anti-terrorist bills, by just associating with me, a potential terrorist, YOU BECOME A POTENTIAL TERRORIST! there is no freedom of association, the freedoms of the press are a joke, freedom of expression never did exist (it was limited from the start in our "charter of rights and freedoms"), the military can declare ANY zone or area under military law, the banks have mandatory obligations to csis to report any suspicious activity and to report all credit and financial transactions you do to them...we can be deported to the united states, CANADIAN CITIZENS, for not even being accused of committing a crime---all you have to do is be a potential terorrist and you can be thrown to places like syria, saudi arabia, and the united states where torture is legal. we do not have the right to bear arms, and religious laws DO and continue to be passed, and will continue to do so until canada is no longer a country under god. do i have to mention the FLQ and the notwithstanding clause? do i have to mention known cases of canadians breaking american law, and fbi/SecretService people coming up and arresting people?
what rights do we HAVE in canada? a country with kangaroo terrorist trials behind closed doors where you don't even get a lawyer(After all, if a lawyer aids a terrorist he can be charged). and try to defend against a federal prosecutor throwing a terrorism charge or two at you, without a lawyer. goood luck.
so what rights do we HAVE? the right not to be in federal prison for fucking marijuana posession? what a joke. i hope we both get thrown in the same deportation cell so i can knock your ignorant teeth in.
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
Funny you should mention Canada's pot situation:
Health Canada dope stinks, patients say
The Government can 't even grow good dope, something any B.C. Grandma can do!
"Flag on the Moon, how did it get there?"
these levies were in the works tens of months if not years ago. where the hell were you then? the show is over -- they have precedent and we have lost. bend over, and take it---thank you for helping earn it for the rest of us. :P
GENERATION 26: The first time you see this, copy it into your sig on any forum and add 1 to the generation.
That's too bad! They only give US excuses to invade Canada. :)
And I'm assuming Saucey is enjoying it, yes?
They won't be able to buy any of our politicians. The political campaign finance reform that goes into effect Jan. 1, 2004 terminates nearly all but the smallest corporate political contributions.
Parties will be funded via public money based on the percentage of the vote they got in the last election.
Cheers to that!
Moore's conclusion in Bowling is that America has a culture of fear. I didn't get the impression that he blamed Charlton Heston or Lockheed-Martin for this. We can spend all day splitting hairs about whether Bowling is a documentary by Academy standards, but again, I think that's missing the point.
irb(main):001:0>
Ah..... I stand corrected. In which case, yeah, that's not a viable option at all. Hell, that kind of tax would cause a lot of business to go across the border, much like what's happening now with people making trips to buy prescription drugs in Canada.
If Canada hadn't entered the war with the UK and provided thousands of tons of supplies, ships, sailors and soldiers, there wouldn't have been a free UK left to save when the US finally decided to slink into the war.
The idea of a mandatory tax as a handout to the recording industry is attrocious. You're only supporting it here because it happens to help your case against the RIAA, whom you hate. But in general, if the RIAA wasn't part of the picture, and you were being taxed to support the film or software industry when you purchased Blank CDs simply because you MIGHT pirate software or films, you'd be mighty upset and indignant. And rightfully so.
The people the taxes are going to have done nothing to prove that any individual buying a CD is going to use it in an illegal (or money costing) manner. They've found a way to charge everybody a fee for the potential right to burn copyrighted CDs without your permission or consent.
If everyond suddenly got a bill from the RIAA in January for $50 to cover all your music downloads over the previous year, and you haven't downloaded a thing, you wouldn't be so happy about this situation.
It's exactly the same.
I'm glad you Canadians are happy with your legal file sharing. I question where or not it's a good policy (if music, why not software? if software swapping becomes legal, there's going to be a lot fewer tech jobs around in the future). But keep in mind it's nothing but organized extortion and you really should be arguing to repeal the tax, even if you don't want to repeal file sharing.
--
RumorsDaily
Being a Canadian I do get a special warm fuzzy feeling when people from other countries talk about my country like its some kind of snow covered paradise. Sure, I take pride in that. And I'm definitely one to slag some of the more stupid things that happen in the US. But let's not get crazy.
I'm currently paying about 33% in income tax. Think about that. For convenience, let's say you're making 30k CAN. That's about 20k US. My American friends pay about 10% in income tax, so when a Canadian is taking home 20k CAN after tax and an american is taking home 27k CAN. If I was making an extra 7k a year I could pirate a lot less music. 7k a year should more than pay for insurance to give me medical coverage equivelent to what I get for "free" here in Canada. It should also cover the music I'm allowed to pirate here in Canada.
This is getting into dangerous high-level political idealogy debate area but I'd personally be willing to give up a bit of the benefits I get from being Canadian for a bit more control over where my money is spent.
Currently:
CD-R & CD-RW (non audio) $0.21 per CD
Minidisc / CD-R Audio $0.77 per CD/Disc
Cassette tapes (40 minutes+) $0.29 per tape
Flash Memory - Removable no levy
Flash Memory - Non Removable no levy
Micro Hard Drives (mp3 players etc) no levy
DVD-R/RW no levy
This is what he'll be paying for later.
CDR/W - $0.59 per CD ($0.93 per Gigabyte)
Minidisc / CD-R Audio - $1.23 per CD/Disc
Cassette tapes (40 minutes+) $0.60 per tape
Flash Memory - $0.80 per Megabyte
Flash Memory - Non Removable $2.1 per Megabyte
Micro Hard Drives (mp3 players etc) - $21.00 per Gigabyte
DVD-R/RW - $2.27 for each disc
Sycorp levy information
Om, nomnomnom...
From the Copyright Board of Canada: What is "Private Copying"? On March 19, 1998, Part VIII of the Copyright Act dealing with private copying came into force. Until that time, copying any sound recording for almost any purpose infringed copyright, although, in practice, the prohibition was largely unenforceable. The amendment to the Act legalized copying of sound recordings of musical works onto audio recording media for the private use of the person who makes the copy (referred to as "private copying"). In addition, the amendment made provision for the imposition of a levy on blank audio recording media to compensate authors, performers and makers who own copyright in eligible sound recordings being copied for private use. The Copyright Board's decision issued today sets a levy for this purpose.
Mr. Currie writes: Every song on my hard drive comes from a CD in my collection or from a CD in someone else's collection which I have found on a P2P network. In either case I will have made the copy and will claim safe harbor under the "private copying" provision. If you find that song in my shared folder and make a copy this will also be "private copying." I have not made you a copy, rather you have downloaded the song yourself.
He is correct to state that the copy he made from his own CD to his hard drive is covered under Canada's Copyright Act. He is wrong to state that downloading a copy from somebody else's P2P application is covered -- it is not "private copying" because the person offering that copy is already in violation.
The Copyright Act states in section 80, subsection 2 that it is not "private copying" if done for any of the following purposes (my emphasis):
(a) selling or renting out, or by way of trade exposing or offering for sale or rental;
(b) distributing, whether or not for the purpose of trade;
(c) communicating to the public by telecommunication; or
(d) performing, or causing to be performed, in public.
Did this guy even read the Copyright Act? Whomever he is downloading this file from is communicating to the public by telecommunication and thus that copy is illegal.
MORTAR COMBAT!
in what way does this answer my question ?
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
One more reason to emigrate to Canada and open up my fragging cafe.
Like the other guy above you who commented to my post, that is the point. How am I supposed to take any message in a film seriously if its is full of lies? Some of his crap, like walking into Walmart in Ontario to buy ammo which was either a crime or staged, wants to make us believe something about Canada that simply isn't true. We have home invasions and gun crime and lots of these problems that Americans have. We also have 1/10th the population in a larger landmass.
I seriously don't care who it is - Republican, Democrat, Green, Communist - the fact of the matter is that lying detracts from your message and destroys any respect I might have for you.
WTF, didn't you catch the thank you?
Pointing out to someone that which he has already thanked you for is rude(I'm Canadian, politeness is supposed to be in our genes).
Sure information wants to be free, but how much are you willing to pay for the packaging?
Half the kids got books published in the US and the other half got books published in Canada or other parts of the world. Much confusion occured because everyone with an American book thought the US won the war. Also interesting is that only a few of the American books mentioned that the Whitehouse was burnt to the ground.
See, that's funny, because Canada (is possibly the only country to?) already fought off an American invasion of conquest.
:-)
I seem to recall that our British allies also burnt their capitol to the ground...
Statute of Westminster in 1931. So Canada did have a choice.
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
We haven't been a British colony since Confederation in 1867.
Some of what I say is fact, some is conjecture, the rest I'm just blowing out my ass...you guess.
If you find that song in my shared folder and make a copy this will also be "private copying." I have not made you a copy, rather you have downloaded the song yourself.
Until the courts actually interpret it that way, better watch your backside. That you've given permission for someone to teleoperate your computer is a clever notion, but at the moment it lacks a stable legal precedent.
Moderating "-1, Disagree" is simple censorship. Have the guts to post your opinion.
P2P downloads do not sound like "private copying" to me - they sound entirely more public. From the article: "In Canada, if I own a CD and you borrow it and make a copy of it that is legal private copying; however, if I make you a copy of that same CD and give it to you that would be infringement. Odd, but ideal for protecting file sharers." Sounds fine, but the problem is you are not lending your friend the CD, you're letting any number of people all listen to it at the same time, free of charge. That's Public Copying. And the exact extent of who is doing the copying is debatable - That is, when a file is transferred, the receiver never has both copies, but the sender does (in part, one TCP packet at a time), so the person making the copy available is in fact the one making the copy. For the record, I'm a proud Cannuck. ;)
So if the RIAA can't touch you in Canada... how likely is it that they will really check the citizenship of the person connected via a certain IP address? And how likely is it that a Canadian Internet provider is going to give the RIAA information about their customers?
Therefore, it seems to me that somebody could make a killing offering VPN tunnels in Canada.
I say we all move to canada I is less smoggy there anyway
I wonder if you could claim refugee status for this. "I face persecution and imprisonment in my country for sharing music, a perfectly legal action in Canada." I bet you could.
That would be a lark, our refugee board filled with nerds clinging desperately to their 100 GB hard drives.
RIAA? Never heard of it. Does it have anything to do with the SARS?
= 57 3&ncid=757&e=2&u=/nm/20030916/od_nm/health_hands_d c
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid
6E8C 8721 B3D9 5269 5A9B 1122 00C3 C03D 99A7 1CFC
Notice the last word in his posting was "eh"
What is the robbing of a bank, compared to the founding of a bank? -- Bertolt Brecht
Ironically, I found this news article panning Health Canada's official dope supply for ill people. What's even funnier is that some company has a $7 million contract to supply them with it! As I read the article, I wondered how they do quality control -- just lab tests for delta-9 THC, or do they actually give samples to people to try? I'm sure its all BS lab tests and some rocket scientist is trying to mix/blend it to average out the potency.
I heard last week the US was immune to Greenland's polar bear poaching laws... after this RIAA and Canada news, what could be _next_?
From the otherwise persuasive Tech Central Station story:
If the RIAA were to somehow succeed in shutting down every "supernode" in America all this would do is transfer the traffic to the millions of file sharers in Canada. And, as 50% of Canadians on the net have broadband (as compared to 20% of Americans) Canadian file sharers are likely to be able to meet the demand.
Er...but there are 32 million Canadians, versus around 290 million Americans. So how does he figure the Canadians will be able to meet America's demand for stolen music?
Hiawatha Bray
Tech Reporter
Boston Globe
Regardless, we had a strong and high profile isolationist movement before the war and in the begining - Just like we did for world war one and just like we were developing before Sept. 11. The US being isolationist in modern times seems like a prelude to conflict.
US Democracy:The best person for the job (among These pre-selected choices...)
Q: What do American beer and having sex in a canoe have in common?
A: Both are fucking close to water.
I did some googling and found this opinion on the passage you mentioned.
Bell owned by americans?
What have you been smokeing?
All of our common carriers have expressed legislation witch restricts the foreign ownership to non controlling portions of the shares. Both Telus and bell disclose this in the footnotes of there annual and quarterly reports . While a small percentage of BCE (bells quasi parent company) and some bell ventures (like yellow pages) have ownership by americans ; any action on the part of american courts to interfer with canadian telecomunications would result in stiff opposition by the CRTC (our version of your FCC) . The CRTC is paraniod about foriengors controlling our countries infrastructure and requires that all telecomunication companies whishing to operate in Canada be owned (by a majourity not 100%) by Canadians .
Since when did propaganda become journalism? It's not more legal to make a copy of a CD or downloading MP3s here than smoking pot. The only difference here is in Canada we don't actively pursue people who transgress the law, you don't see police officers going door to door to check if everything is legal in your house eh?
The fact that the RIAA has the kind of power to come and check your PERSONAL logs at your ISP and check if you're downloading something illegal is as dubious as someone putting a videocam in my home and watching me then using the tapes against me. It's just plain unethical and illegal, you can't just barge in.
Authorities take 2-10 years to make strong cases against people, why would the RIAA just take logs and use them inside a week? Can i get arrested for saying on the net "I'm going to kill him" as a joke and then the person gets killed the day after? How strong can an ISP log be used as evidence?
Trolls dont like to be Flamebait, because they burn so well. Protect our Troll heritage!
I sent this in awhile back and some idiot Mod rejected it. Ahh well, call me a troll if ya like. 2003-08-20 15:25:13 Music Sharing Legal in Canada? (articles,music) (rejected)
What are you smoking? In my experience, Canadians are a bunch of insensitive, prejudiced bastards. While living in Guatemala, I'd say about 3/4 of the Canadians I met were rude, insulting, and offensive to me JUST because I'm American. I never had any negative ideas about Canadians until I travelled out of the country and met several.
It seems par for the course to be assumed to be stupid, uneducated, and some how, less "sophisticated". I can't even count the number of times I was told I'm supporting an "Imperialit Regime" because I grew up in the US, paid my taxes, and didn't revolt over foriegn policy (which I didn't make).
I even met one Canadian who told me that "Americans don't know anything about the rest of the world". This is from some fucker not only couldn't speak ANY of the local language in the country we were living, but can't even speak his own country's two languages. I, on the other hand speak English, Spanish, and Chinese. Do most Americans? No. But a fair number of southern Californians do. It's not right to just say that ALL Americans are ignorant. The best part was when he gave me a "pop quiz" on how many provinces Canada has. I knew, and then I asked him how many states the US has. He didn't know. He didn't know.
I'm a gnu world man.
Of course, "willfully" is a pretty vague term, and I imagine that proving it in court (like in the case of the 12-yr-old New Yorker) would be difficult. Which is why the RIAA is trying to settle all these cases, at costs which are non-trivial, but cheaper than hiring a lawyer to actually fight. They will probably choose to prosecute a select number of cases that fall into the "felony" area just to make a point.
People are repeatedly focusing on the wrong thing. The RIAA can't go after downloaders; they can only go after the publishers, the people sharing the music. They want the sources to dry up.
Your mileage may vary, but mine is constant.
Wow! You are ignorant! Turn off MTV and pick up a book.
It's interesting that at first glance this levy seems like a somewhat viable solution to all that the RIAA is jibber jabbering about. However one problem, as others have mentioned, relates to the fact that you can end up paying a levy on blank cd-r's that you use for file storage/back-up purposes of just standard (non audio) data on your own computers. This for one is a serious problem with the levy. But even beyond this, one must consider the fact that the levy is setup to be paid back to the record companies in proportion to the amount of music they sell, which obviously favours only the very largest of record labels. So now the little independent record company or artist is forced to pay a levy on the blank CD's they are using to make their own music back to the very companies they are competing with!
While I am Canadian, and applaud our government for not allowing the silliness going on in the United States with the RIAA to happen up here in Canada (at least yet), I still believe our system is not without flaws as can be seen by the above situation.
Did you read the reasons why? Primary reasons:
1. Poor treatment of aboriginals
2. Change in metric regarding education
3. Reduction in GDP
The point is that the UN takes into account many things which don't matter to your average citizen. Plus, these kinds of lists are inevitably affected by political motivations. Hell, Canada still has the longest life expectancy in the world. So we can't be that bad...
Yes, it is only state law, but most marijuana posession isn't a federal offense because it doesn't involve interstate transportation or federal property, rendering the federal law moot.
And then there's local enforcement. The cop on my block says that he has to bust somebody with over a 1/4 lb of marijuana before the DA will even look at the case, and there are a number of municipaliities (often college towns), where getting busted means confiscation and a $10 fine. I'd wager that there's a lot of places where getting busted is confiscation and a browbeating by the cops, and I know people who have been busted who just get half their stash lifted!
Da Blog
1. Making and promoting an album only costs a million dollars because the industry wants it to cost a million dollars because that keeps out competition and they get to deduct all the costs from the artists' shares. P2P systems and internet radio threaten the music distribution oligopoly, which is the real reason that the RIAA has declared war. There is some evidence that during the period that the RIAA says their music sales dropped, the sales of independant music went up and that total music sales is actually up.
2. The problem I have with the US media tax is that the money goes to the RIAA members, not the artists, not smaller music labels. Even if the law were changed to that I actually bought some rights to share music when I paid my media tax, I still wouldn't like it.
Don't moderate flamebait as Troll. Know the difference or you will be Meta-moderated.
Possession of fewer than 30 grams of pot is sort of legal right now, with no penalties, not even a fine.
The pot laws were struck down because they were deemed to be unconstitutional. About 3 years ago, a person went to court to get access to marihuana, arguing that he had a constitutional right to use it as medicine. The court agreed, and said the government should pass a new law that allows him legal access to pot. The court ordered that the law be struck down after a year, to give the government time to pass a new law. After 364 days, the government introduced a new regulation outlining how access to medical marihuana would be awarded.
About a year later (about 6 months ago), a 15 year old was arrested for possession of pot, but charges were dismissed because the judge decided that the law against possession had been struck down; introducing a regulation did not replace the law. Since the part of the law that made possession illegal was struck down, it is no longer illegal to possess pot. The police can still arrest you for pot possession; but if the case ever goes to trial, the charges will be dismissed. In most areas, the police have stopped arresting people for pot possession; but some jurisdictions still do, they will defer prosecution until after a new law is passed.
The decriminalization law you mention has not been passed yet, and until it does, you cannot be convicted of pot possession. The "decriminalization" bill is actually a bill to re-criminalize pot. The current political speculation is that it probably won't be passed until after Paul Martin calls an election. Since the bill will "die on the order papers" when parliament is dissolved for the election, it is likely we won't see a new pot law for at least a year. If this particular bill does get passed into law, possession of small amounts will result in a fine. All the other aspects of marihuana prohibition, like production, will remain jail-worthy offenses; in fact the penalties have been increased for most non-possession crimes.
A bit of commentary on all of this: The government has an interesting pattern of delaying changes to the drug law as much as possible; I can only guess this is so the politicians won't have to actually make any decisions. Like the recent gay marriage situation, Parliament has known for years that there is a constitutional problem with the law, yet would rather wait for the courts to strike down the law before acting. It is notable that the new pot law does not address medical marihuana in any way; I'm guessing that is a deliberate error to ensure at least a few more years of Supreme Court trials before the politicians actually have to decide anything.
A few months ago, the Supreme Court heard a few non-medical marihuana cases, and the judgments are due soon. I'm guessing they will add additional fuel to the marihuana issue, and the government will probably be forced to pass a more liberal law than the current decriminalization bill; if only to directly address the issue of medical marihuana.
-- Pot is safer than Beer
Canadians saw (or see in retrospect) an invasion of their "country". Many Canadians also don't see that Canada wasn't even a country in its own right at the time and that the war was between the US and Britain.
I'd sure like to know the conditions of "victory" in the US books. Surely they're not suggesting Canada invaded the US!?
Canadian seeking to rent out bandwith to American music listener. American should provide own PC to run P2P program. Kazaa preferred. File transfer from this PC to home is up to the user.
Rates to be discussed.
555-IKID
Toronto Dominion is an totally owned subsidiary of Bank of America. A US corporation with its' headquarters in North Carolina.
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
2 points about this whole we're American's too BS.
1. People who live in the United States of America are properly called Americans (regardless of how some people like to refer to us). People in other countries in the Americas are called Mexicans, Brazilians, etc.
2. Definition of American: 1. Of or relating to the the United States of America or its people, language, or culture. 2. Of or relating to North or South America, the West Indies or the Western Hemisphere. 3. Of or relating to any of the Native American peples. 4. Indigenous to North or South America. Used of plants and animals.
Source: The American Hertiage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition. Houghton Mifflin Co. 1992.
I understand the rationale; everyone who lives in Europe are Europeans.. everyone who lives in Asia are Asians.. everyone who lives in the Americas are Americans. Unfortunately, there is no country called Europe, or Asia.. there IS one called America. Use the same word and distinguish the meaning by context. Stop whining when someone obviously talking about people living in the USA says 'American'. And stop telling them about it too, because you know they don't give a 5h1t.
The Copyright Act 1985 c-42 Canada is available here. It's been amended a few times (latest, April 2003) but those changes have little bearing on the slashdot subject. Users with little time want to check out Part VIII, Private Copying; and in particular Section 80; Copying for Private Use.
Some comments on the discussion so far:
The Recording Industry Association of America represents US record companies. They don't now, and never have, anything to do with Canada or any other country.
The RIAA is a member of the IFPI, which represents the recording industry worldwide. Their website has a great link called "Anti-Piracy" and a defintion under What is Piracy? Please note the definition has not a word about dowloading, or copying a buddy's CD, but instead refers to what the RIAA tends to call Counterfeiting.
The Canadian Recording Industry Association (CIRA) is the body which represents the industry in Canada. They are the equivalent to the RIAA in that country and if anyone was suing anybody in Canada, they would be doing it, not the RIAA. Ever.
Uploading music is completely illegal in Canada, as is allowing it to be shared. CIRA can and probably will sue anyone who does it, and they will win. Damages, on the other hand, won't be even close to the numbers the US courts give out, which probably explains why they're not hiring a floorful of lawyers about it, so far.
What the Copyright Act allows, is the copying, for personal use, of music from any source. So, downloading is fine, as is borrowing the CD from the public library (most Canadian libraries have extensive music collections available) or a buddy, or any other source you can imagine. There are no restricitons, of any kind, on the source of the music you use to create a copy.
Steal a disk and copy it; the crime remains the theft of a $20 disk, not the copying of that "illegal" disk.
The restriction is only the person making the copy has any right to use it. You cannot lend, give away, or otherwise distribute a Personal Copy made under authorization of Section 80.
Thus, allowing your mp3s to be available to others via a shared drive or network is against the law in Canada, as is making a disk and giving it to Grandma for Christmas. Granny has to run her own burner. And moving to Canada would not protect any of those who the RIAA has sued recently; what they do is still against the law north of 49.
The US media, especially the RIAA, has done a great job of marketing their message worldwide, not just in their jurisdiction. Thus, almost every Canadian (and absolutely every journalist; lazy no check-facting idiots that they are) is completely unaware of the Act, or how it applies to copying. They all think it's illegal to burn CDs in Canada.
Man, have you ever been watching too many U.S. revisionist history movies!
I am moving to Canada!
Their news isn't filled with violence.
They have more guns per person than the US yet have less homicides per 1000 people.
They have a health care system that works.
Their educational system is one of the best.
Why the hell would I stay in the US?
"O Canada..." 8)
Karma Whoring for Fun and Profit.
I submitted an article two weeks ago explaining why this article is an erroneous analysis of s.80 of the Copyright Act, and it got rejected. And then this happens. Listen, Canadians, don't go using your p2p apps and thinking you are immune from lawsuit, you are liable for copyright infringment if you share files.
8 /2 2/1655233&mode=thread
To wit: a fellow law student and I have written an
analysis of s. 80 of the Copyright Act and we've
concluded that one can download music safely under the
Private Copying provision, but no one can share or
upload files without infringing on copyright.
In a nutshell, Private Copying allows anyone to make a
copy of a song purely for their own use. As you
probably know, when you share files and someone
downloads from you, what actually happens is that
their computer makes a request and your computer
actually sends the file to them. Thus, you're copying
for someone else's use and infringing. It doesn't
matter if you didn't realize that's what happens,
either... intent is not required for infringement.
The upside is that you can accept copies from other
people (ie. download) all you want. Although there
might be an issue of contributory infringement to
worry about... I won't go into analyzing that, since
so far the record companies are only suing uploaders.
The article can be found here:
http://grep.law.harvard.edu/article.pl?sid=03/0
I've recently confirmed this analysis with an IP law
professor at my university, so I'm pretty damn sure of
it. So, please, let all your awesome readers know the
truth. Downloading cool, uploading/sharing not. I
guess the situation still better than nothing.
Plus it would be chaos for the American drug control people, since it would likely flood the US with dope.
'fraid I don't have a link to provide, but the local news paper (the Winnipeg Free Press) recently ran an article discussing US plans to start requiring some sort of passport containing biometric information before allowing border crossings. Currently, no paperwork is required (not sure if this applies in airports, rules might be different there), but I wouldn't be surprised if this whole passport thing ends up going through.
I think the reasons for this are probably more because of terrorist concerns rather than drugs (There was concern that some of the 9/11 terrorists may have entered the US from Canada)... but if we really do decriminilize marijuana, I'm sure border policies would have to change. Oh well, ever since the exchange rate started sucking, vacationing to the states hasn't been that great anyways.
-"One machine can do the work of fifty ordinary men. No machine can do the work of one extraordinary man." -EH
"While hardware vendors whine about the levy, consumers seem fairly indifferent. Why? Arguably because the levy is fairly invisible - just another tax in an overtaxed country. And because it makes copying music legal in Canada."
To tell you the truth I don't mind paying high taxes here, yes of course I like paying fewer taxes but I think the general consensus among Canadians is that we don't mind being taxed so heavily. But that is only because we get direct return on our tax dollars.
In the States you pay very few taxes and a major selling point in elections is tax cuts. That is mainly because in the States, taxes don't get used for anything that directly benefits the public. It goes to supporting a massive standing military, nuclear arsenal, etc... So Americans perceive tax as just some guy coming and taking their money. That is why the IRS is given so much power in the states, have you ever heard of a government revenue agency in any other country that had its own swat teams?
So although it may appear to Americans that we pay very high taxes here, you must keep in mind we get a lot more in return from our government as well.
If you don't stop reading this right now you owe me $1,000. Send check or money order too...
Holy shit, you should be ashamed to call yourself a Canadian. Learn some history! Canada was still technically under British rule during WW*I*, and as such was forced into action during that war. However, by WWII, Canada had full autonomy from the British empire and chose independantly to enter the war.
Last time I checked, when our Prime Minister to be, Paul Martin tried to relax ownership (ie foreign ownership) requirements on banks, the government shot him down. Just like so many other things here (magazine/tv content) Canadian content is controlled. I believe you have it the other way around maybe? Toronto Dominon did buy Price Waterhouse Cooper. But I'm quite sure that the 4 major Canadian banks are at least 50.1% Canadian.
"Nokia is not a country, it's the capital of Finland!" -Moderated "Informative". Yeesh.
...and given NAFTA, wouldn't that make any copying you did in Canada legal -- e.g. if you copied a file from one computer in Canada to another, then bringing a file legally acquired in Canada back to the US should surely be legal.
Actually you can't "buy" your way past any waiting line for 99% of the procedures out there. Private health care is supposed to be illegal here. The only things that private people can make money off of up here are services that aren't deemed medically necessary (like most cosmetic surgery).
About the only thing you CAN buy beforehand is if you live near a private MRI clinic, and while there has been talk about shutting them down, or "appropriating" them for the public system, it will never happen because the rich politicians like to use them.
Those who want to jump the queue because they have money go to the US and pay for it there. It's impossible to pay for it here.
Erioll
P.S. I live in Alberta, about the biggest centre of health-care controversy in Canada outside of SARS-infected Toronto.
Someone said that 1 cent per megabyte would be fair.
That equals to 6 to 7 dollars per CD. Hmm lets see how many companies go out of business due to prices like that. Nobody could make a profit of making cd's so they would charge more also so then you end up making it too expensive to distribute cd's with the software and music industry.
Could have the converse that it forces everything to be delivered on the internet but then what about those cuaght up in the digital divide?
I dont know how much they charge per cd in Canada but hopefully it's not that crazy. I highly doubt it is since even one country doing something like that would have repercussions elsewhere.
As far as I know, MysterNetworks (mysternetworks.com) is the only Canadian based P2P company out there right now. If there aren't others, perhaps we can expect many new coprorate registrations in Canada by existing P2P companies.
Personally, I don't like the idea of paying $8 for a blank CD-R, with $7.50 of that being RIAA-tax.
Likewise, I'd be telling RIAA to go fuck themselves, preferably with a pallet full of HDDs, if they wanted to throw a $2,000 tax onto my new 200GB HDD - Yes, do the maths. 0.01*200,000=2000. Even if it were 1/10th of a cent (0.001), that still doubles, roughly, the cost of that 200GB HDD.
I would just like to say a big "FUCK YOU" to the author of that article, for not doing the sums first and giving RIAA ideas. Coz they can easily sell those ideas to their pets in the US government and then other countries (such as NZ, where I live) will be more suscpetible to lobbying by our local RIAA clones for similar measures.
"God, root, what is difference?" - Pitr, userfriendly
I think the topic has been flogged to death above, but yes, Canada autonomously entered the war. William Lyon Mackenzie King (our prime minister at the time) chose to step into it. He also talked to his dog for political advice and was convinced he was being contacted by the spirit of his long-dead mother. ... I am Canadian, by the way.
When life gives you lemons, you CLONE those lemons, and make SUPER-LEMONS. -- Dr. Cinnamon Scudworth, Ph.D
>> politeness is supposed to be in our genes
I take it, then, that your "WTF" was supposed to stand for "What the fudge"?
Here is the real question, if I rent storage space in Canada, save all mp3 files there then just have them stream to my desktop, does this mean I get around the RIAA. Sounds like I just need to get some friends in Canada and make sure to network mount my drive from there.
Serenity|Chaos
How about 500,000 US Military deaths in WWII vs. 39,000 for Canada?
Really? Well seeings how the US has about 10 times the population...and how many of those US Military deaths were due to "friendly fire"?
Or maybe us Canadians are simply better at not getting shot!
You're using her as bait, Master!
"Thanks!", indeed.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
I don't want to pay $0.77 extra for every CDR that I buy.
Really? I bought a spindle of 100 at a wholesaler in Vancouver called Lin Haw for $39 Cdn and paid NO levy! I do agree with what you're saying though...why should I be taxed for activities that have nothing to do with any artists? But there are still ways around it.
I also believe that you can apply to have the tax refunded if you can demonstrate that they are for uses that have nothing to do with copyrighted material. Your LUG activities would certainly qualify and you should maybe consider looking into it, though it's a bureaucratic pain in the ass.
You're using her as bait, Master!
You mean the US government isn't going to be legaly bought out anymore??!? OH HAPPY DAY
CAn'T CompreHend SARcaSm?
Poor treatment of aboriginals is a major sticking point in Canadian politics. Do you have any idea how much the government spends on aboriginals? The whole reservation mentality and government treaty payments has to stop. They should basically buy them out one time and let them sustain themselves, culturally and otherwise. Educational metrics are also important, because Canadian schools are getting progressively worse (e.g. larger class sizes, lowering of standards to let people pass high school in Nova Scotia). And finally GDP...good ol' GDP is a major barometer of economic health.
In any case, the original poster made the assertion that by objective measures that Canada is better. The UN study shows otherwise. Let the poster back up his statement and I will be more than happy to discuss it further at that time.
Okay, I made up my mind. Don't go to war without provocation. Thanks =D
However, people now identify with the nation more than a home state as a direct result of the Civil War. Giving one from every eight adult males to hold it together had that effect. You can't count on New Yorkers or South Carolinians to maintain a union, only Americans.
Luke, help me take this mask off
There is an excellent on-line documentairy on the topic of drug prices in the US vs Canada.
e r/
Also, if you liked it, don't forget to send them an email. They are still undecided about whether they should put more of their documentaitries online.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/oth
This is slightly off-topic, but a lot of people have mentioned that, due to Canada's better music-copying and marijuana laws, they would love to move there.
There's a better reason: culture. The city of Toronto is the city that never sleeps. The many colorful neighborhoods are teeming with people well into the wee hours of the night.
Kids don't go out and vandalise because there's plenty of stuff for them to do. Unlike in the U.S. where niteclubs are all 18 or 21+, they've got plenty of all-ages clubs and events. Here in the U.S., an all-ages event is asking for trouble.
The drinking age is also lower, 19, and 18 in Quebec. And people are generally more laid back about drinking, too. I spend a lot of time in Ontario and I've never been I.D.'ed for alcohol. I'm 19 years old. Here in the U.S. I can't even taste a sip of wine at a local winery.
But the number one thing is the culture. People in Toronto embrace diversity. It's the most diverse city in the world. Over 50% of the population was born outside of Canada. You can get food and products from just about any country. And in the meantime you will be safe. The chances of getting shot in Toronto are very slim. The murder rate in a city of 2.5 million people was smaller than in my town of Herndon, VA.
Now the bad part is getting a job that pays well. Salaries in Canada are lower. The other negative aspect is the extremely cold weather in winter. I've said before that if you picked up the city of Toronto and dropped it in place of Miami (and lowered the humidity a little), it would be the greatest place on earth.
What in gods name are you smoking? Canada was a free nation as of June 20, 1868 Why dont you do your history. Google Dominion day and you'll learn what i'm talking about. Or just look up. Or down. Either way the truth will come.
Tragek
Seems Someone didnt read the article at the start of the thread. The important part that was left out of the article is the fact that the government is sitting on the money, not handing it out to the music industry. But I don't mind that so much, pisses me off so much that I have to pay the music levee for blank CDs used to back up my data. And its far from 'invisible', the levee adds at least a third to the price of a stack of CD's.
George Bush + Linux = "I will not let information get in the way of the fight against Windows"
The Queen 'technically' has the power to dissolve the British parliament, order the beheading of the Prime Minister and rule by royal decree. Whilst some people think this might not be such a bad idea, in practice that kind of power has not been exercised by any British monarch since the time of Queen Anne.
Windows Tweaks
Provide me with an accurate way to reimburse my artists and i will, but there is no gawd damned way its going through the RIAA et. al.
A while back there was a service that purported to do just that however if died. If perhaps i had a mac i'd buy from apple music store. BUt until somthing that works on !all! platforms comes out, i'll still dl my songs, until the groups greatest hits comes out.
Tragek
Absolutely.
However, Canada has not paid one penny to the recording industry. the gov is sitting on all that collected money.
Of course when they do hand out the money, it will just open yet another scam way for the US gov to put unfair tariffs on imported Canadian goods because it would mean we are subsidising our record industry.
George Bush + Linux = "I will not let information get in the way of the fight against Windows"
RIAA's legal dept. really needs to rethink its strategy, and take a chill-pill. Hey, they can get those online imported from Canada as well......way cheaper!!
Bands don't tour to support their CD sales, they launch CDs to support their Tours!
Actually, we're both partly wrong. I was wrong, in that Britain didn't force Canada's hand regarding WWI (even though it could). You are wrong, in that Canada was still somewhat under the thumb of the British until the Westminster act of 1931, at which point Canada was granted full autonomy.
WARNING:
It appears that you are offering copyrighted music to others from your computer. While we appreciate your love of music, please be aware that sharing copyrighted music on the Internet without permission from the copyright owner is illegal. Victims of this process are the artists, songwriters and musicians who create the music and the other talented individuals who are involved in bringing you the music.
More than 40,000 Canadians work hard producing and supporting the music you appear to enjoy, including producers, engineers, retailers, music publishers, distributors, manufacturers, record companies, concert promoters and broadcasters.
When you break the law, you risk legal penalties. There is a simple way to avoid that risk: Don't distribute music to others on a file-sharing system like this. For further information, please go to www.cria.ca.
Remember that you need music and music needs you.
"Share your knowledge. It's a way to achieve immortality." -- Dalai Lama
being in the health/science sector, it offends me that whether someone lives/dies suffers/is relieved should depend on how much money/power they have. that's how animals behave, literally.
I buy them in bulk at costco (in canada of course), they have a price per cd, the 100 pack TDK in a spool unit price was .60 cents. So somewhere the tax aint being paid, that means they are making negative .17 cents a CD.. a GREAT deal. What are you smokin?
I guess the great lakes make the difference.
Denmark is not too happy about the Euro either.
It's far from clear how the UK would go, if given a choice.
Shouldn't that be RAIAAAAA?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
We were not forced, per se, to enter WWII. But, since our independence from the USA was largely responsible to British intervention, Canada was OBLIGATED to join HMS and fight for Europe's freedom as Britain had for ours.
Until Pearl Harbor forced their hand, the US was simply going to pull the same tactic as they employed in WWI... wait until 3-4 years of fighting has gone on and then sweep in for the kill and be the world's hero.
Canada on the other hand was involved from the 'git-go' in both wars... and unceremoniously used as fodder by incompentent english twits who called themselves generals. IMHO, Canada has paid its debt to Britain with it's sons blood.
Excellent Idea.
Are they selling subscriptions to people who reside in the states?
Well, I don't have a problem with all Canadians. I certainly don't start bitching at people as soon as I find out where they're from. I was just responding to the post that generalized Canadians as 'polite'.
HOWEVER, I do like a lot of Canadian bands and comedians. Other than Rush, I also enjoy Sarah Mclachlan, most of the old Saturday Night Live crowd and countless other Canadians who didn't jump at me with lots of nationalist insults and taunts. Maybe if I met some of them I would find them to rude or nationalist too... but there's no denying that Neil Peart is one hell of a drummer or that Mike Myers is a very funny man.
I'm a gnu world man.
Yes,Yes that was it entirely.
Sure it's in our genes but I'm also a crotchity 40 year old. So I don't use the words on a public forum just the abbreviations. That way I keep politeness but give in to being crotchity.
Sure information wants to be free, but how much are you willing to pay for the packaging?
Surely they're not suggesting Canada invaded the US!?
Actually, in thoses years, Canada was still a British colony... but yes Canada invaded the US and burned Washington. But the US troops did also burned York (Toronto) which was the capitol of the Upper Canada at the time.
I live in Soviet Canuckistan you insensitive clod!
> You can start a business with much less interference, taxes, regulations, etc in only a few countries besides the US but they're usually in a state of anarchy.
That is a part of the problem. The US is very friendly and free for businesses, much less so for people.
> Taxes are the most onerous intrusion into my life and no industrialized country has lower tax rates than the US.
Once you factor in state taxation, quite a few insdustrialized countries have lower taxes.
From the Tax Misery Index, some figures on the total tax burden of several countries in 2003:
USA + New York - 117.6
Germany - 116.6
Luxembourg - 111.4
United Kingdom - 111.3
Switzerland (Zurich) - 108.7
USA + Illinois - 102.7
South Korea - 99.9
Canada (Ontario) - 99.8
USA + Texas - 99.7
Lithuania - 97.0
Russia - 92.6
Ireland - 90.3
Australia - 90.0
Singapore - 87.0
South Africa - 85.0
Thailand - 83.0
Taiwan - 81.7
Hong Kong - 43.0
> Thanks to Bush, my corporation can pollute, lay waste to foreign countries with impugnity. I can even use it to rob millions of people and still remain free. I'd like to see a Canadian do that.
Problem is, those corporations are now demanding a carte blanche to rob you.