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MS To Limit Security Fixes to Legal Copies of Windows
rufey writes "An Associated Press artcile on MSNBC is reporting that Microsoft is going to start restricting access to security updates from pirated copies of its Windows operating systems. Starting in mid 2005, if you have a pirated copy of Windows, the only way to obtain security updates will be through the automatic updates mechanism. And even that method may be restricted at a future date. The article is light on details about what versions of Windows this will affect. Parts of the system to check for a valid copy of Windows is already used when downloading software (such as Media Player) from Microsoft - except that validation is currently optional." EnderWigginsXenocide points out Reuters' version of the story.
The main gist is that people who have their Windows Update set to automatically download the latest critical patches (through the Windows Security Center - insert oxymoron comment here) will not be affected at this time. If you manually go to Windows Update you will need to provide some sort of credentials (allow software to snoop on yer box or provide your key) to access content. I myself bought a copy of XP recently from Newegg for this exact purpose. I like Linux a lot and if I didn't game, I'd use it exclusively. Since I do game, Windows is a necessity, and I don't want to have a haxxored box because MS tightened down on allowing pirates (which I freely admit I was one) to patch their systems. Newegg has copies of XP pro for about $150.00 with the purchase of any hardware, which is a far cry from their $300.00 MSRP.
"As the intrepid kobold companion continues his journey, he begins to wonder... if priests raises dead, why anybody die?
Do they mean corporate edition? :)
Folks will just start distributing these patches through other arenas (torrent, newsgroups, web sites, etc.), or will develop methods (as they always have) to work around the system checks.
This is just a ruse to get folks to pay less attention to the fact that the MS OS is generally less secure for most people than it should be...
RTFA, security updates can still be downloaded
MS To Limit Security Fixes to Legal Copies of Windows
Or, maybe, how 'bout:
MS To Limit Security Holes to Legal Copies of Windows. That would make most people's installs pretty solid....
"All great things are simple & expressed in a single word: freedom, justice, honor, duty, mercy, hope." --Churchill
what happens? You'll get a lot more spam.
basically that's it.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Really the only thing that would be better is if they could devise a way to make it impossible for people to install their software in a manner that violates the license.
How many more people would start taking a hard look at FOSS if they couldn't get their 'free' MS products?
It's hard to believe that's how Micronians are made. Why don't we see it right now by having you both kiss one another?
...exactly how does MS plan to check piracy? What conditions are being checked? What files? In other words, how do they know? (mine's a corporate license that was given to me...hopefully it's not a hack, but who knows)
Mercy was given to me by Christ...I must give the same to others.
MS's new authentication and registration techniques do work on the small scale, your average person who does have the technical know-how to just copy the Win98 cd doesn't usually have the know how to find the crack for systems like WinXP that need to be "activated" i know alot of family/friends who used to just copy software but have bought XP cuz its "pirate proof".
Many people pirate Windows, for many reasons. Cost, availability, etc.
But imagine now if it's becomes a nuisance to crack everypart of the OS which phones home. People will go elsewhere... legal perhaps.... but what about the people who wont pay.
With Linux now coming of age, it seems about right that a significant market share would now drift in the direction of OpenSource operating systems.
Like, if my HPiece-of-shit laptop dies and I "transfer" my XP license to a Dell, does that count as piracy?
Yes, because now you don't buy software. You lease it. >:(
Why should they be expected to support copies of Windows that people didn't pay for? Sure, this is an issue of customer support. But then, the people with 'pirated' copies of Windows aren't Microsoft's customers.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
The pirated versions will still be getting updates if the user of said software has auto-updates turned on. It's only when you manually run windows update that you get denied.
That may change in the future, however.
The reality is that almost no other commercial software vendor will provide you with updates if you aren't current on maintenance, let alone pirated the software in the first place.
Jerry
http://www.syslog.org/
And what happens if the machine you're legitimately trying to update can't be put on the internet? I remember during the blaster virus, some of our laptops were getting infected so fast, we had to make sure the remote users did NOT get online, and we had to send them the security update and blaster cleaner on disk.
So, under Microsoft's new model, we wouldn't have been able to fix those machines, because as soon as we let them on the internet to "validate" their copy of Windows and download the patch, they would have been reinfected and rebooted. Lame.
Installations are NOT transferrable as a normal course of operations... especially if they're OEM copies. (You can call and specifically ask for a transfer from the MS support desk and they'll usually help you out with that though... once...)
Talk about using your worst problem to your advantage. Now security holes sell windows. It's amazing what a monopoly can do isn't it?
They obviously end up as virus scan/delivery systems (quality of life on legal boxes goes down), or they end up as DoS boxes that might be leveled at Microsoft.
Either way, good for Linux.
"I'm too cheap to buy it, it won't stay working, what else is out there?"
Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!
If/When windows-update denies pirated versons of windows, people with pirated versons, who can't get security updates can risk having their machines turned into spam zombies.
And then every one on the internet will have a problem when the net is flooded with spam from unpatched zombies.
Or we can hope that people will switch to something some people consider a better OS when they no longer get updates from MS.
When i Moderate something -1 Flamebait, why do i not get another modpoint?
5--1 = 6
Awsome simply awsome the tighter they make their licensing the quicker the uptake for Linux. Hell I don't really know anyone other than some companies that buy legitimate copies of windows. Hopefully they will put a check in Office that will not let you run on a pirated system as well.
Short term revenue gain, long term loss.
Got Code?
scans your system.
I've been looking at the Mac anyway. Maybe I'll get a legitimate copy of Longhorn.
Mercy was given to me by Christ...I must give the same to others.
Of course, this only applies to the first 3 weeks before the new authentication scheme is hacked. After that, it won't matter.
The NSA: The only part of the US government that actually listens.
However, those that just surf, check e-mail, balance the check book and write letters have no need to toe the line for ol' Chairman Bill.
This is a golden opportunity for LUGs to have installfests for these users. February and March is a good time since most people want indoor activities. At the very least, LUGs can contact the local newspapers and get them to print and article or two about the non-MS options out there.
If an installfest is too extreme, then just consider a showcase where Joe & Jane Sixpack can try out KDE, Gnome, Fluxbox, and so on and see that despite what they've been told, it doesn't bite.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Great, that means that more PC's will be less protected.
Now watch as the internet get scummier and slower as all the Fnuts out there that continue to use thier ileagal copies of substandard software and no longer are able to download major patches and updates manually to fix the security issues left by open windows.
"Consider how lucky you are that life has been good to you so far. Alternatively, if life hasn't been good to you so far
So they aren't gonna allow downloading .exe updaters in case someone has a group of boxes with Windows...?
What M$ don't realise it....
... but do people have to die first?
16 new worms spread today causing widespread destruction and loss of data. 3 people were killed when a safety mechanism running embedded windows was shut down.
Microsoft claimed that they were not eligible for security updates because of licensing, the company state that they were licensed, but it was easier to install from other discs.
The company went on further to say that a car which could kill people would be recalled, and the old time engineering firm said they were amazed that software was allowed to be sold without the measures in place to stop things like this continually happening.
A service will be carried out for the 3 victims in their home town on Wednesday.
The worms continue to wreak havoc, and a company has given a 800 number to call to have DVD's sent to you to install linux, which will recover your data, precious photos and music, and allow you to continue.
In light of this event Rockstar games has given a 100% commitment to bring Gran Theft Auto:Disney World to Linux FIRST before any platform.
Apple also announced a special key to enter to remove the DRM restrictions on itunes, as people with dead MS music players bought linux based open players.
#hostfile 0.0.0.0 primidi.com 0.0.0.0 www.primidi.com 0.0.0.0 radio.weblogs.com
... in exactly how many machines we're talking about here. Given that every time I've purchased a machine in the last 5 years I've been force-fed a Windows license, how likely is it for someone to have a pirate copy?
I'm still steaming from all the times I've purchased machines to run Linux, yet been forced to buy the OEM Windows license along with it.
And before anyone mentions building a box yourself, that just causes a hassle when it comes to warranties (I want a name brand machine that I can take back if something breaks in its hardware), and companies that allow you to purchase the machine without an OS are virtually nonexistant in my area.
So given that I've been forced to buy a Windows license with every PC I own (whether I use it or not), I'm not sure how it's possible that there's that many pirate copies out there.
You can accomplish anything you set your mind to. The impossible just takes a little longer.
Assuming that MS tinker with automatic Windows update so that it detects illegal installs when a user tries Widnows Update on a pirated copy, I can't see how this system is going to work.
At the moment, any user of Windows (legal or illegal) can MANUALLY find the system administrator patches easily on Microsoft's website.
Unless MS manage to work a pirate copy checking system into each and every one of their system patches, this system will be easily broken. (and even then pirates may distribute cracked patches)
My main beef with MS is that I paid for XP, but reinstalling the system just to fix it means that I have to play their stupid online registration game - which only gives me so many lives before "Game over"
READY.
PRINT ""+-0
If you install WinXP Volume licenced edition with the famous FCKGW RHQQ2 (Genius!) serial number then install IE critical updates from Windowsupdate, the computer will start crashing on an occasional basis... its been widely rumoured that early on in the XP lifecycle Microsoft issued a patch which has an additional function of degrading the reliability of pirated copies.
This is reproducible with any XP volume licenced CD using that serial so bad media can be ruled out
I have been a user for about 10 years. This ends Feb 2014. The site's been ruined. I'm off. Dice, FU
> Like, if my HPiece-of-shit laptop dies and I "transfer" my XP license to a Dell, does that count as piracy?
:-)
Yes. The version of XP you buy with a laptop is OEM and MS licensing clearly states that the license cannot be moved to a new PC.
However, I doubt that MS's update site would consider this pirated. It'll be on your Karme, though.
Althought I hate to give Microsoft any credit at all, I can't really say that, in theory, Microsoft is out of their right to do this. However, with the new Media Player, I have a real legitimate copy of Windows XP, and it was still unable to verify the authenticity of my software. Being optional, of course, I ignored it, but if that 100% legitimate copy stops working some day because Microsoft can't verify its authenticity, what then? Call Microsoft and tell them? I'm sure I don't have the receipt for a copy that I bought 3 years ago. Is Microsoft going to take my word for it that it's legit? What if it happens on a Sunday night before Christmas? Are they going to have operators standing by to get me working again?
I sure hope they think this policy out before implementing it. As a sysadmin of a small business network, I sure as hell hope that nothing goes wrong with our volume licensed copies.
In the immortal works of Han Solo, "I have a really bad feeling about this..."
-Arthur
Cave ne ante ullas catapultas ambules
Jobs' macmini is looking better by the minute...
I don't see this solving all their issues, though I understand the move. Many pirated copies likely come from enterprise editions. Corporations are not likely to start using AU for updating systems. I can tell you I'm having to shut it off, often on the same machines, because Sp4 apparently turns it on. Some products have to be tested or blessed before loading a patch from MS. You can easily violate a contract if you don't follow a vendor's recommendation on patching. My point is, it's not a simple as turning on AU on a server and letting MS do it for you.
If anything, it might nudge some people to a Mac. Apple has the brand recognition, and you can buy "For Macintosh OS X" software in stores. In other words, they know what they're getting with a Mac.
With Linux, on the other hand, most people wouldn't have any idea whether or not they would be able to use the software they want, let alone how to get it even if it did exist for Linux.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
The reality is that almost no other commercial software vendor will provide you with updates if you aren't current on maintenance, let alone pirated the software in the first place.
The reality is that Microsoft Windows is installed on 90% of the machines out there. The reality is that regardless of how the software was aquired it is likely to be vunerable to worms, trojans, etc. The reality is that Microsoft is going to continue to look mighty bad when worms and trojans slam 90% of the computers out there.
After a while the "oh, well, the pirates shouldn't have pirated the OS and then they could have gotten our updates that came 6 months after the worm started" gets old and people don't care anymore.
As I have said before this is the situation that they want to occur as it makes all the more sense to place DRM restrictions on their OS and programs that will run on the OS/hardware.
but if you built your own computer the old fashion way and the license....you can install it whereever you want :) (if i'm wrong, let me know cuz i did a no-no)
As much as I hated it, I gave up the cash for XP. Then we had that stupid registration requirement which was supposed to take care of this "authentic copy" BS. Also, when I had my first major system upgrade changing the motherboard, CPU and video card, I was locked out and had to call their stupid support line in order to re-register with my new configuration. What's next, DNA validation?
Ok say some sinister hacker knowing that cd keys are
stored in the registry builds a little one liner that inserts a known comprimised key. You know ms is gonna check for this.
The result is a ton of instantly owned machines since they are unable to install security updates.......brilliant plan
That being said I hope they enforce their licensing pirates are slowing the uptake of Linux, it hurts everyone.
Got Code?
This is the WRONG approach. This will cause the infections of the Win32 environments to spread even faster - especially in places where piracy is very high.
Blocking the enhancement updates is one thing - but blocking security updates just hurts the rest of the world - the paying customers - and not the hackers and pirates. As usual - the good people loose with this policy.
The better approach is to make OS's nominal in prices. Apple and Microsoft have the wrong approach - charge $25 for the OS and then you will get people to buy it becuase it's cheap. Most people are honest - and will buy it if reasonably priced.
Now we can be sure that viruses and spyware remain a pest for the remainder of the Windows-era.
:)
In any case, this will quicken the demise of Windows, rather than strengthen it
Slashdot: stuff for news, nerds that matter, matter for news, stuff that nerd
I remember reading a Crypto-Gram article on this a while back. Here's some great, relevant commentary from Schneier. The original link is http://www.schneier.com/crypto-gram-0406.html#4.
The security of your computer and your network depends on two things: what you do to secure your computer and network, and what everyone else does to secure their computers and networks. It's not enough for you to maintain a secure network. If everybody else doesn't maintain their security, we're all more vulnerable to attack. When there are lots of insecure computers connected to the Internet, worms spread faster and more extensively, distributed denial-of-service attacks are easier to launch, and spammers have more platforms from which to send e-mail. The more insecure the average computer on the Internet is, the more insecure your computer is.
It's like malaria: everyone is safer when we all work together to drain the swamps and increase the level of hygiene in our community.
This is the backdrop from which to understand Microsoft's Windows XP security upgrade: Service Pack 2. SP2 is a major security upgrade. It includes features like Windows Firewall, an enhanced personal firewall that is turned on by default, and a better automatic patching feature. It includes a bunch of small security improvements. It makes Windows XP more secure.
In early May, stories were written saying that Microsoft would make this upgrade available to all XP users, both licensed and unlicensed. To me, this was a very smart move on Microsoft's part. Think about all the ways it benefits Microsoft. One, its licensed users are more secure. Two, its licensed users are happier. Three, worms that attack Microsoft products are less virulent, which means Microsoft doesn't look as bad in the press. Microsoft wins, Microsoft's customers win, the Internet wins. It's the kind of marketing move that businessmen write best-selling books about.
Sadly, the press was wrong. Soon after, Microsoft said the initial comments were wrong, and that SP2 would not run on pirated copies of XP. Those copies would not be upgradeable, and would remain insecure. Only legal copies of the software could be secured.
This is the wrong decision, for all the same reasons that the opposite decision was the correct one.
Of course, Microsoft is within its rights to deny service to those who have pirated its products. It makes sense for them to make sure performance or feature upgrades do not run on pirated software. They want to deny people who haven't paid for Microsoft products the benefit of them, and entice them to become licensed users. But security upgrades are different. Microsoft is harming its licensed users by denying security to its unlicensed users.
This decision, more than anything else Microsoft has said or done in the last few years, proves to me that security is not the first priority of the company. Here was a chance to do the right thing: to put security ahead of profits. Here was a chance to look good in the press, and improve security for all their users worldwide. Microsoft claims that improving security is the most important thing, but their actions prove otherwise.
SP2 is an important security upgrade to Windows XP, and I hope it is widely installed among licensed XP users. I also hope it is quickly pirated, so unlicensed XP users can also install it. In order for me to remain secure on the Internet, I need everyone to become more secure. And the more people who install SP2, the more we all benefit.
Ha, ha! Nobody ever says Italy.
I say it's good. You get what you pay for, and if you don't like paying for things, there is an alternative called Linux :) But, seriously, MS should look into making a reduced "Gamers" edition of Windows.
It's funny how Microsoft seems to want people to take them seriously when they talk about pirating their stuff, yet pretty much rip off their customers any time they can. System dies and you want to transfer the license? Sorry! You have to buy it again! Why? You paid for it once, now on a system that will no longer function. Provided that you don't repair the old system and bring it online, what valid reason other than "we want more of your money" do they have for such restrictions? What makes them believe they have the authority to make such restrictions in the first place?
Somebody, please please PLEEZ figure out a simple (one click?) install and update process for *Nix instead of having to slog through multiple tarballs and such? At least the Knoppix Hacks disk has a clear set of instructions in the associated book, and for dual boot too.
As much as I want to use *Nix, I'm still tied to my swarm of M$/Wintel packages and hardware -- Thank You Wine! At this rate, I'll be jumping ship to a Mac Mini any day now just to get spun up. Already have a KVM switch for three boxen -- just as easy to mount a fourth...
Pacifist paratroopers yell, "Ghandi!" when they jump.
You should change your key RIGHT NOW. It's EASY and it takes all of 10 minutes, and most of that time if just finding a valid code with the Blue Key ...or so I hear :)
Here's how: linky linky
How many people actually use legit versions?
Won't the only outcome of this be machines that can't get patched causing more blackeyes for M$?
Besides if you can get the warezed OS how hard is it going to be to get a CD of patches?
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
Windows XP Service Pack 2 already did this. "Someone I know" had a problem when installing SP2; it would error while check current configuration stating that Windows was operating on an invalid CD Key even though it had no CD Key errors before hand. However, this was one of the first XP Pro copies out there that I know of. After changing the cd key to another valid key my "friend" no long had any problems.
Folks will just start distributing these patches through other arenas (torrent, newsgroups, web sites, etc.), or will develop methods (as they always have) to work around the system checks.
And some will just stop using Microsoft products and start using BSD and Linux exclusively. In the mean time, the pirated versions of Microsoft based operating systems (I use that term loosely) will continue to be even easier targets for worms and other types of malware, which in turn will keep degrading the Internet experience for everyone, not just those using Microsoft products. I know there are people who need to use Microsoft products because there is no alternative (for certain games, etc.), but I can live without such software and I hope the BSD and Linux communities will be able to provide those alternatives to our Microsoft-ridden friends in the near future.
Windows Server 2003 already did this. So it's not that big of a suprise the would do it for the other OS.
Quality over Quantity.http://www.virusgaming.com/
Well it means that a large chunk of machiens will remain open to those who wish to install bot-nets on them and DDoS whoever annoys them on IRC.
I think they'd probably have done a lot better if the next version of DirectX can't install on a illegal version of windows, people generally don't give much of a damn if they can't get security patches, if they can't get the latest game to work however the'll be pissed.
I am a geek with six computers at home that I use for different purposes, most of them are obviously minor tasks (a few winamp only machines, a print/mp3 server and a machine that I use for testing an ASP site that I run on a work computer). I have the same copied version of Win2k installed on all but my main which has a legit version of XP.
If MS tries to force me into license compliance, I will suddenly have the extra motivation I need to figure out how switch all but my main over to Linux. Once I do this, I will have some degree of comfortableness with Linux (comfort being the main barrier to switching) and maybe I'll switch my work site over to Apache/PHP. And gee, we really don't need MS SQL server for the web site backend, I just went with it because it was comfortable and it wasn't my money. And on and on...
I was once consulting for a company had a need to do some 3d viz, I recommended they use 3D Studio Max. Why? Because I had been playing with a warez version and was comfortable with it.
So, the simple point is: warez in the hands of a geek = legit versions purchased by businesses that I interact with.
Of course, there's a strong argument that Apple aren't primarily a commercial software vendor (they're a hardware vendor that support sales through their software business.)
Redhat and other commercial Linux distributers tend not to require a support contract. But that's a whole different ball park too...
-- Sorry, I can't think of anything funny to say here.
Some people use their PCs for several years before buying a new box.
Windows 95, 98, 2000, and XP came out in pretty quick succession. A couple of years ago someone running still running '98/2000 could be easily enticed to install the pirated version of XP they downloaded or were offered from their techie relative/buddy.
-- Scientist: You aren't going to leave me here, are you? Boagh! Thump...
I can think of a couple of big commercial firms that will provide you with updates whether or not you paid for their software. RedHat and Novell Spring to mind.
I know what you were trying to say, but these too are commercial firms, out to make a profit. RedHat through Fedora provide updates for a year, Novell through SuSE desktop / pro provide updates for two years. If you need longer than that, install your own version of RedHat Enterprise Linux through Whitebox Linux or one of the other clones and enjoy RedHat patches for a period of five years.
There's lots of levels of support you won't get from these companies without paying for it, but you will get patches. Frankly it's in no-one's interest for tens of thousands of unpatched computers to be sitting on the internet.
What about the Microsoft security initiative? Is that being bested by the Microsoft why-aren't-you-getting-the-money initiative? Why should Microsoft care about someone that's stolen from them? I don't blame them.
ACs are modded -6. I don't read you, I don't mod you, I don't see you. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.
Given the way SP2 foobared my XP, I wonder if there is a way to un-register my copy to take advantage of this feature.
The reality is that almost no other commercial software vendor will provide you with updates if you aren't current on maintenance, let alone pirated the software in the first place.
Ehh, what? Seems like a CLEAR MANDATE to me!
That's all well and nice, but at the end of the day, its not about "doing the right thing", it's about "doing the right thing for MS shareholders". So long as MS deems the risk/reward ratio to favor continued movement towards shutting out pirates, this is going to continue. As soon as they see it causing a shift in attitude (and hence revenue) against them, they will change.
MS is not a dumb company. You don't have that market cap without having a horde of people analyzing all of the risks of a move like this.
Jerry
http://www.syslog.org/
All I really see is MS further alienating current legit customers and slightly inconveniencing crooked ones.
So don't fret. Illegal copies of Windows will get their updates. There's absolutely no way Microsoft can stop it.
Developers: We can use your help.
So last night I was playing Wow for a while and the performance in Orgrimmar was pretty bad. I figured I'd up the ram in my main maachine to fix the problem.
Pulled the ram from another machine, dropped it in and rebooted windows. Windows XP then informed me I had made substantial changes to the machine since I installed XP Pro on it and told me I had to re-activate it.
If this causes me, at a future date, to have issues because another minor change triggers the Activate windows, and it fails for some reason and I can't get security updates I am going to sue their ass.
Thankfully I have a Mac.
(If I had Priated XP I wouldn't even have this concern. I'm sick of being treated like shit after spending a few hundred on stuff.)
Funny, my receipt from the store doesn't have the word "lease" on it anywhere. It was a sale.
from the article:
"Users of pirated copies of Windows will still be able get some updates, such as security patches, but will not be able to get other add-ons for Windows, the Redmond, Wash.-based company said in a statement."
So, tell me again how this is a bad thing? Don't we already bitch about the useless crap M$ dumps on computers?
Watch the Teaser Trailer for "The Lightning Thief" Her
This story changes every month. Microsoft is starting to remind me of SCO; putting out stories just to stay in the news as relevance fades. Maybe they should just do something newsworthy, like finishing Longhorn!
But Officer, I DID read the f**king article!
Separate downloads will always be available because corporate users generally do not use Windows Update for their workstations and servers. They have to download separate patches so they can be fully tested, then distribute it themselves. Whether or not these downloads will be available to everyone on their website is unknown. But the article only says this license check "also" will be used for Windows Update, not Windows Update exclusively.
There's no way they'll alienate all of their corporate customers. Updates will still be available as separate downloads or on CD.
Developers: We can use your help.
In fact, they will officially engourage pirating by charging legal customers more.
FTA: "by offering discounts to users of pirated copies of Windows"
Pirate a copy, then ask for the discount.
Exam 4/C again. Maybe I'll do better this time.
M$ loses potential profit equal to GDP of a small country due to pirated Windows copies. They remedy this by increasing the incentives for buying legit copies. If this results in a less secure internet for everyone, this is neither their problem nor their fault (in any direct sense). Joe Average is not going to understand that the internet being slower and/or more unsafe than ever could be blamed on M$ policy, even *if* he cares. By the same token though, I think the new M$ policy will backfire, because Joe Average already is ignorant/indifferent to security concerns and will take the pirated Windows. The smaller % that *are* security conscious might just decide to investigate Linux rather than fork out money for a legit Windows copy. I'm hardly an M$ apologist, but if this were nearly any other company, /.ers would be saying "hey ya gotta do what ya gotta do to protect your investment" and we'd be feeling sorry for their no-win situation.
Of course, if Windows didn't have so many holes and bad default settings in the first place....
When all of your wishes have been granted, many of your dreams will be destroyed - Marilyn Manson
to stick with Windows 2000 SP4 if you've got to use any Windows OS at all. I had a copy of XP on my system once when it first came out, and the degree to which I was forced to jump through hoops to register and get anything to work was rediculous.
;)
(I could tangent into how this is similar to the DRM being enforced on music downloads, CD copy protection, and everything else companies are doing in the name of protecting their interests, which I understand and can't really argue with on a philosophical level, except that such protections in practice usually cripple the product to an unusable degree... but I won't
Win2k has never given me any problems, has provided the stability and multimedia capabilities I need (including gaming, not that game all that much), and contains far less "fluff" that I see consuming resources on XP systems, all registration / validation issues aside.
In addition, anything extra that XP provides that 2k doesn't, I've been able to find 3rd party, usually free and often open-source solutions from companies with better track records than M$.
So yeah, stick with 2k if you can help it.
-matt
example : photoshop gimp would you pay a couple 100's for somethign that is free and equally good (if not better, since a whole community is aiding with debugging and giving useful comments)?
Unfortunate example there. Gimp is not going to win over hoards of Photoshop users simply because it's too difficult to use, owing to its crazy user interface. There are other, cheaper solutions (like PSP) which are more likely alternatives than Gimp...
These cheap boxes normally come without OS to be able to further cut the price. I know many people, who just buy the machine and get Windows plus Office installed by some PC-guy.
Some of my friends with their overcloX0red loud towers spend the money on a new graphics card instead of an OS.
Luckily, I have a Mac. Pirating Operating Systems was never easier. Hell, you don't even need to enter a Serial!
> System dies and you want to transfer the license? Sorry! You have to buy it again! Why? You paid for it once, now on a system that will no longer function.
If you break out the costs, a new XP shrink-wrap license is around $299 for the pro version. You only really pay around $65-$85 for the OEM version.
If you buy the full one, feel free to use it wherever you want.
> What makes them believe they have the authority to make such restrictions in the first place?
It's their software, they set the terms.
Most people missing the point. This isn't about driving people to Linux, it's not about making things easier for pirates. You assume that people care about an up to date machine, and most don't. Know what the net effect of this actually is? It has nothing to do with pirates.
Unpatched machines means more "zombies," more zombies that relay spam and viruses and worms and jam up residential broadband subnets with chatter and useless, often malicious, traffic. Microsoft has just done more to assist spammers and virus and worm writers than any virus or worm could do on it's own!
I think Windows is generally a good product - it does what it's supposed to for the vast majority of people. But the company behind it is so consumed with fighting pirates that it's willing to sacrifice anything and everything, including the entire internet. Microsoft must topple, because they DO NOT CARE about the greater good, only about squeezing the last dime out of consumers.
Because you can't dowload a patch on a fixed, or otherwise non-vulnerable (Mac, Linux box, etc.) machine to copy and install on vulnerable machines.
The only machines that can be patched this way are machines vulnerable without the patch. If a vulnerability that can be exploited in less time than the verification takes (let alone downloading the patch) you can effectively have a machine you cannot ever use on the net.
You do realizes it's possible to download software for one machine running one o.s. on a different machine running a different o.s. don't you?
Mycroft
https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
A significant percentage of people already have unpatched systems. Hell, just last week I had to reinstall XP on my laptop. I forgot to redownload the security updates and two days later I was getting warnings about W32.spybot being injected into my System32 directory. So, rather than trying to make the security process more automatic, and more uniform, Microsoft decides to screw all of us legitimate XP owners (hell, I own two legitimate copies of XP Pro, and only one PC) by reducing the number of secure machines running their software. Many of the attacks these days have as the goal to compromise machines (for keylogging or further zombie work), and originate from compromised machines; any increase in the number of inadequately secured machines increases the effectiveness of these attacks. Increases in attack effectiveness affect legitimate owners just as much as illegal ones.
Fine, disable every other upload/bugfix what have you for illegal copies of XP, but don't restrict security. Security affects ALL OF US. So once again, a big corporation decides to punish all its clients in a pusillanimous and ultimately unsuccessful attempt to increase their bottom line.
Some corporate decisions merit firing; others merit jail. In my mind, the folks who did this are making themselves and their corporation accessories to any crimes committed. We buy a product; they acknowledge a defect that makes the user vulnerable; then they decide not to take every reasonable step to remedy the defect.
Short term:
* users of those systems wont notice
* a lot more DoS, virus spreading
Middle term:
* users of those systems notice, start wondering at their needs and options
* slight decrease of DoS, virus spreading
Long term:
* users of those systems either buy a copy of Windows if they can afford it, but many switch to Linux
* gaming options improves on Linux
* stabilisation of DoS, virus spreading
Very long term:
* more gamers switch to Linux, as it becomes a viable option and does not require them to buy Longhorn.
Eventually:
* Microsoft regrets taking this steps, after Linux becomes predominants amongst youngsters.
* Phenomenon is accentuated when ex-youngsters/new-graduates introduce their in-depth Linux experience into the even most monolithic companies
Optimistic? Me?
But on the other end, I'd say that Microsoft might want to stop alienating their users. The next 5 years are NOT the time to do that when free alternatives are gaining momentum.
Right now I'm reading a book titled Crossing The Chasm: Marketing and Selling High-Tech Products to Mainstream Customers, and I can't help but think about Firefox and Linux. If this stuff gets marketed right, Microsoft has a lot to fear. "The Chasm" is the part of the technology marketing cycle where it is VERY hard to jump from early adopters (such as many of ourselves) to the early majority, where the big chunks of market share are taken.
The book is great so far, even though I'm reading the older version published in 1991 and the stories are old. The fact is that if the OSS community can "cross the chasm" within the next 5 years, now is NOT the time for Microsoft to be alienating ANY of its userbase, customer or not.
Berto
Great, so that means that most college campuses will be overrun with virus infacted, spyware full, computers that will tie-up bandwidth as well as create disgruntled students.
The core of Microsoft has been based on piracy in general. Kids in high school and college 'get a copy' of Windows from a friend, get a copy of Office from a friend, then put it on their PCs and learn to integrate it into their normal daily lives. When they leave school and eventually enter the workforce, their knowledge from using this software translates into what they recommend for their businesses to use, as well as what they WANT to use.
... while Microsoft is right in what they WANT to do, they shouldn't do it because the amount of money they will recover is going to be pennies compared to what they will lose in the long term.
It's amazing to me that Microsoft has yet to realize the shortcomings in its long term business plan, especially with regard to market penetration -- they are simply removing themselves from the equation. I know when I was in high school I got a copy of Windows 95 and graduated to get a copy of Visual Studio, and taught myself Visual Basic. That helped me to land my first job, and I know I'm not the only one. My knowledge in MS products makes me a valuable asset. What will happen a few generations from now when companies find themselves struggling to support their Microsoft based environment because they have to spend big bucks on training for their employees, as well as having a general lack of people with that knowledge entering the workforce? I'll tell you what they will do -- they will switch. The money alone will necessitate it.
I'm not saying that Microsoft isn't right in their stance -- they totally are. There are people (like myself) who have pirated their software years ago and gained great knowledge by doing that. I made myself an asset when I entered the workforce and found a job within a Microsoft environment. But if I don't pay for their software, they shouldn't have to update/support it. However, Microsoft's primary source of income is not from a kid like myself, but from the corporations that buy licenses for each seat and user they have, in addition to training classes and the like. There will be a point of no return, and with a hardline stance on piracy, it's going to come sooner rather than later.
Then you will find companies like Red Hat that offer Fedora free to learn Linux becoming more appealing. Software like OpenOffice will become more heavily developed and at some point, equals or greater than their Microsoft counterparts in terms of usability and feature richness. I do not see Mac becoming too big in market penetration because of their proprietary standards with regard to their hardware, and exorbitant pricing. For that $500 Mac Mini, I can't play a SINGLE game well, even if it were OSX Compatible. I need to buy a much more beefy Mac if I want to use it for every day use -- and my use goes beyond "checking my email", and this is just going to be a common trend as computers become more a part of our lives.
So what I'm trying to say is that
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
It floods competitors out of the market.
This might be the first serious move for a corporation to defend their EULA "let's use the police to enforce our business" model.
Wasn't Product Activation supposed to eliminate all pirated copies?! Well, guess what, Microsoft failed yet again!
A few years ago we were all worried about Palladium. I'm not sure why. Microsoft cannot lock down its own OS. Heck, it cannot even lock down its own proprietary Xbox!
Mod me as flamebait or troll, but everything I've said here is completely true!
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
...the rest of the people in the world on the net have to suffer because someone pirated the OS. Microsoft MUST allow the patching of even pirate copies or they are setting of the biggest virus/bot/spam net in the entire world. I would go so far as to say that the US government should push the issue as a national security problem.
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
Who cares?
If you are complaining, you either a: have a legitimate copy of windows, or b: are a pirate.
If you are complaining, and all your copies are correctly licenses, and are unhappy because the activation process/making sure that your system is considered in compliance with MS, you have a somewhat valid complaint.
If you are complaining, and all your copies are NOT correctyl licensed, go screw yourself.
As far as I'm concerned, either compliant is the same ringing endorsement of free software.
Free software is a) avaliable for cheap or nothing, and b) never, ever, ever comes with license troubles unless you are planning evil stuff (like stealing GPL'd code).
Don't want to deal with restrictive big brother license surveillence? Too bad, you agreed to the MS EULA.
Most of the things you can do on windows, you can do in Linux now.
95% of things that can't be done in Linux can be worked around.
Very few people have a need. Most people simply require re-training.
WhiteWolf666 an exBush supporter. All you new-school,compassionate,save the children Republicans can rot in hell
How about folks who LIKE using Win2k but have lost their original disk and reinstalled using a friend's key instead of being forced to pay $150-300 for a new copy of software they already owned?
That does not make sense to me. If I buy a mobile phone, and somehow lose it, I cannot go to the reseller and claim a new phone simply because I "already own it". If I lose it, then it's lost and I will have to buy a new one.
Similarly, if I've lost my software key, then I've lost my proof of ownership, and I'm just as much a pirate as anybody else if I use a friend's key when installing.
No one can expect Microsoft to cover for one's own sloppiness - if you lose your key then you'll have to buy a new one. There's no "I already own this" argument to be made when you've lost it yourself.
Now we can look forward to never updating our systems simply because it will take 3 days to download the patch.
This space for rent
I may be a bit off base here, but it seems to me that MS should allow updates for ALL copies, since they claim the virus problems begin with unpatched copies of windows.
They have to admit that someone is going to pirate windows, and there really isn't much they can do about it. personally, I think they should allow updates for everyone if only to help reduce the amount of garbage being tossed out on the internet.
Sure you can make a valid argument that why should M$ patch boot leg software but I wanted to state what should of been obvious :), and my disdain of companies crying foul when they only make 4.8 billion instead of 5.4 billion(note figures are not real)
Me persoanlly, I would rather go with the good guy strategy and offer software updates to all who have my software in an valid attempt to make my product securer and make my product look good in the process.
I'm not sure that I agree with M$ on this one... (big surprise from a linux user). It's like having a stolen car (or borrowed from a friend) with a dangerous recall notice. The car is unsafe, and should be fixed since it came unsafe from the factory. Windows is insecure, and it came that way from the factory. This will not stop Windows pirating, it will just make the viruses that exploit security holes spread faster from all the un-patched PCs out there.
hack a day
Regardless of whether or not MS is in the right really isn't the issue here.
What is the issue, however, is simply that all those virus writing kids out there are rubbing their hands together and going, "HERE WE GO!".
Those kids are obviously already pretty unscrupulous, so they probably haven't paid for their copies of Windows either. And they'll get pissed at MS because they had to do work to patch their OSes. So they'll start writing worms that will screw with/DOS/hack MS' network using all of the zombie MS machines out there.
Oh the irony...
I don't care if it's a legal or illegal zombie spaming me into the ground. MS fucked up and MS should do something about it.
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
Well a while back MS decided that my key is a pirated key (or whatever else they are using to tell) & my system has been locked down as tight as you can make Win XP Pro... I'd assume smart pirates would do the same (probably better if they could get higher end security tools than I did).
Btw since my copy came from them directly (through their retail 'training' site) I'd like them to explain who mine isn't a 'legal' copy anymore...
we are all invisible unless we choose otherwise
Aren't there monthly Windows XP magazines that come with a CD that contains the latest Windows updates on them?
A clever person solves a problem. A wise person avoids it. -- Einstein
The MS EULA says you're not allowed to move your license to another computer.
The creatures outside looked from Alt-Right to Antifa; but already it was impossible to say which was which.
Won't people just start posting the patches and fixes?
You think people are going to switch to linux when the software isn't there, and *then* the software will come? Sorry but its a catch 22 and wont happen.
More likely, people will complain that their "OEM" dealers sold them a bunk copy of windows. Those dealers will get fucked. Price of OEM windows comes down as those dealers are forced to sell real copies. Normal users go about their business with legit OEM copies of Windows with their new PCs. In fact MS even had a deal where you could provide a receipt of a pirate copy of windows and get a legit version sent to you. Thats the majority of people.
Others who are intentionally pirating will know how to use a corp key and will go about their pirating.
I.O.U One Sig.
When you've stopped laughing, what percentage of ripped-off Windows copies do you think actually perform any differently, or contain malware, compared to the legit version? Answers on an email to billg@microsoft.com, please.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
if you have a pirated copy of Windows, the only way to obtain security updates will be through the automatic updates mechanism. And even that method may be restricted at a future date
For those of you who don't use a Windows machine, you should know that the "automatic updates mechanism" is the way that legitimate and illegitimate users of Windows obtain their security fixes, the way they always have, and the way they likely always will. This article is talking about Microsoft AntiSpyware - the product which they acquired by purchasing GIANTCompany.com. Microsoft has made it Very Clear that they are going to always allow users with pirated copies of Windows to download security fixes. This article says nothing to indicate that users with illegal copies of Windows have any further restriction in downloading security fixes, nor that they will not be able to do so in the future.
The only 'security fixes' referred to in this article, are those performed by Microsoft AntiSpyware. This has nothing to do with their OS, browser, and other product security fixes / patches.
Come on Slashdot! Get the story right!
Actually if you knew what you where talking about you would already know that even SP2 checks keys and refuses to install if a know comprimised key exists. So not only can a simple registry hack cause a problem in the future it can cause a serious problem right now.
Got Code?
You can already install Service Packs on a less than legitimate copy of XP
k b; EN-US;328874
You need a XP Keygen and this helpful KB article
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=
And auto update works, but you can't install non critical updates unless you go through a verification stage.
So it seems that the policy is that people that pay get support and non critical updates. People that don't pay get critical updates and SP1/2 only.
echo -e 'global _start\n _start:\n mov eax, 2\n int 80h\n jmp _start' > a.asm; nasm a.asm -f elf; ld a.o -o a;
M$ may not be dumb . but they are not that smart either. Basically they charge so much for a legitimate copy of Windows that most people are forced to pirate. Windows XP home edition costs over $200 boxed ..
... to deny access to software updates completely would be a public relations disaster and sink the company back into the almost constant negative mainstream press that has haunted them for the last 2-3 years. What they are doing today is more about the message, not action.
As a result, 40% of Windows installations are pirated (could be even higher in some countries)
Furthermore their monopoly is dependent on pirated software, so it is probably in their best interest not to ruffle the pirate feathers too much. These are not loyal customers and could at any moment jump ship given an alternative. Thats what Linux is banking on.
Of course it changed all of the internet setting, and default program settings back to the official MS versions which was a pain in the ass.
Isn't it lovely when MS does that to you. I am caught between thinking it is a glitch in the system or it is by design.
\begin{sarcasm} Because you obviously cannot possibly know how you want your computer configured \end{sarcasm}.Having done so much with so little for so long, I now can do anything with nothing at all.
It should serve to push people over to "anything else". In this case, that includes Linux which makes a fine system if you don't need to install random software foo constantly.
Mac OSX also makes a good choice, and as you said allows for OTS software. But I don't see installing software to be intrinsically harder on Linux. It's just that no one releases nice binary self installing disks with all the dependency libraries built in for Linux. Just no market, yet.
You're reading Slashdot. Of course you like Linux and pc hardware
That does not make sense to me. If I buy a mobile phone, and somehow lose it, I cannot go to the reseller and claim a new phone simply because I "already own it". If I lose it, then it's lost and I will have to buy a new one.
Similarly, if I've lost my software key, then I've lost my proof of ownership, and I'm just as much a pirate as anybody else if I use a friend's key when installing.
No one can expect Microsoft to cover for one's own sloppiness - if you lose your key then you'll have to buy a new one. There's no "I already own this" argument to be made when you've lost it yourself.
First, as the other poster mentioned, a mobile phone is a physical entity that costs something to manufacture, and therefore costs a lot to replace. Therefore, reasonably, the manufacturer shouldn't have to pay for your sloppiness. However, a logical entity such as a software key costs NOTHING to replace, and software costs VIRTUALLY NOTHING to copy.
Second, you own that cell phone that you purchased. It's yours. But you DO NOT OWN SOFTWARE. You own a license to use that softare. And the key is not that license! The key is simply proof of the license, and losing the key does not equal losing the license that you own.
Basically, whether you have the right to use software when you've lost the piece of paper that says "you have a right to use this software" has *nothing* to do with whether you have the right to a new free phone if you lose your old one. The analogy is horribly flawed.
The following sentence is true. The preceding sentence was false.
I was at a client site and they had an old XP box with a ton of issues. I cleaned up the viruses and spyware when I noticed that it didn't have XP SP2. I tried to run the XP SP2 installer (full version) copied from a USB drive but it prevented the install saying the copy of XP was a pirated copy and could not have the SP2 installed on it. Anyone else have a similar experience?
Speak truth to power.
The full price bend-over-and-be-reamed retail version can be transferred to another PC if you scrub it from the first one. I do warn people about this when I build systems for them and give them the option of OEM or retail versions (they all pick OEM).
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
Anyone?? I buy a copy and install it on two machines in my home. Which one is the pirated one? Which one gets to be updated??
This will cause nothing but problems, it will impact many people who have legal copies, but whose children took them to their friends house and installed them.The next round of virus programs will strip whatever information is needed from PCs and overlay them with bad data, then sell the information.
Better start coding.....
I rarely read replies, it's my opinion and if you thought about your opinion a little more, I'm OK with that.
So, how is this different from the policy RedHat put in some time ago that they require a *paid* subscription (and login info) to download *any* fixes?
"-1 Troll" is the apparently the same as "-1 I disagree with you."
That would run countered to game industry, suddenly those kids won't be running games. Suddenly people will be writing OpenGL games instead. Suddenly platform is not much issue anymore.
I think they want to crimp down on smart business fish that evaded nets of juBSA.
"oh, well, the pirates shouldn't have pirated the OS and then they could have gotten our updates that came 6 months after the worm started"
Actually, pretty much every worm problem with MS has had a patch that came out *before* the worm started. Do you have any major counterexamples?
The following sentence is true. The preceding sentence was false.
Well, I can see this working two ways...
1) People will get infected with worms, trojans, etc because of Windows security flaws. Because they can't update anymore (potentially), they'll run out and buy a legit copy of windows for $150-$200.
or
2) People will get infected with worms, trojans, etc because of Windows security flaws. They'll say "who cares if my box sends spam or transmits worms, I'm not spending a dime" and just let their box be infected so long as they can keep using it. Spammers and such will love this, and create worms that are purposefully non-destructive and simply allow for remote DoS attacks, email spamming, etc.
I bet on #2...
N.
"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
Can you please tell what MS scans to know whether the OS is pirated or not?!
I personally do not welcome the day when 50'000 windows pcs will start hammering my openbsd/linux servers. Denying patches from 40-90% of ALL installed windows boxes is insane. MS is making a huge mistake with this, if he denies access to security patches. Those users are not only a danger to themselves, but to EVERYONE ELSE too. I mean, when a script kiddy can build up 10-50k of infected windows boxes in a few months, what stops him from using them? Helping the bad guys by making more boxes vulnerable is not the solution. Yeah, you can say that they can still Autoupdate, but denying people using illegal copies who are quite tech-savvy from security patches WILL leave more boxes vulnerable. I wish this would be the push for some people to switch to alternative operating systems, but this is never going to be entirely true.
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
There certainly are a lot of pissed of Windows pirates here.
Just an observation....
It's called free marketing.
People get those copies preinstalled for free on their PCs, and then in the future they might even pay some money to keep them.
Right now I am migrating many of my computer-impaired friends and relatives to firefox, thunderbird and openoffice, so it's easy to go straight into a GNU/Linux distro, probably slackware, when the time to pay comes, and maybe then I could stop getting calls for free MS support (which I mostly have to ignore, or delay into oblivion anyway).
One chief reason I hear people giving for not running linux is that its 'too hard to set up'. For a time, compared to windows, this was true. I think things like this will contribute to closing the 'hard to set up and maintain' gap.
Who has a pirated copy on his computer. Using a fancy 87kb keygen, he can fool MS into thinking he's legit and letting him install SP2. He took that "Is your computer secure?!" test-thing and it said "Yep, you've got a legit copy, here, have some of our candies"
Fat lot of good this will do.
And the guy I know is NOT me. At all.
Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
Others have already pointed out the obvious holes in your analogy. Allow me to point out some non-obvious ones.
If you lost your phone, would you also have to sign up for a new contract? By your analogy, you would also lose your phone service, and would have to get a new number, new account, sign a new contract, etc.
If I truly do own that key, then I should be able to sell it. In turn, whoever I sell it to should be able to sell it, and so on. That is not the case however.
If you lose your proof of ownership (that would be the official hologram on the actual certificate that contains your key), do you lose all rights to that software? If you write down your key, then lose your hologram card, are you a pirate? You don't have the "proof" of ownership anymore.
Has it sunk in yet that digital works are not the same as physical works? The same rules cannot apply. That is why legally, copyright violations are not the same as stealing. They are different things, with different rules under the law.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Besides, corporations often burn CD-Rs of their own copies of the OS and use their volume license keys as often as they want.
It's better to vote for what you want and not get it than to vote for what you don't want and get it.
- E. Debs
I've got a feeling if they actually attempt this, the courts will step in:
1. Companies extreme power in the industry could cause national security issues.
2. Public safety/greater good (software failure could cause criticial system failure).
3. Liability of future exploits that take advantage of these unpatched systems.
I don't think the US, in this paranoid time would allow this to take place. At least not in the court system.
Microsoft's only recourse against pirated software is legal. They need to face that. What Microsoft needs to do is use their political swing to encourage congress to adopt stricter laws and enforcement policies for pirated software. THe software industry is a large industry in the US. It not only powers our country, but employs signifigant sums of people. It's in their interest to ensure that profit isn't undermined by piracy.
Slashdot is an amazingly popular site, and still only represents a microscopic fraction of people involved in theindusty.
So, your second copy shouldn't activate since that key is already assigned to the fingerprint of the first machine.
Here is some info I found, a while ago...
10 hardware characteristics (12 points) are used to determine the Windows XP hardware activation hash:
points item
1 Display Adapter
1 SCSI Adapter
1 IDE Adapter
3 Network Adapter MAC Address
1 RAM Amount Range (i.e. 0-64mb, 64-128mb, etc)
1 Processor Type
1 Processor Serial Number
1 Hard Drive Device
1 Hard Drive Volume Serial Number
1 CD-ROM / CD-RW / DVD-ROM.
For activation to remain valid 7 points must remain the same.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
I like to use knoppix and technet to drop updates onto a fresh install before connecting a fledgeling Windows system on a network.
I wonder if we're still going to be able to get access to Technet articles?
It's not a bit flip. It's a process which doesn't take place all at once. No catch 22 there, it worked like this from the first place. If the system has something to offer users will start using it, even if its not perfect. Then some users are stepping up to make it better. Mind you, this is taking place paralel(or whatever, duh grammar). More professional users were the first then the level needed to understand the system decreased. New users came(some of the improved the existing system), process repeated.
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
Umm.. In the case of HP I know you are getting gyped. We have HP DL380s and not only do they not come with an OS, they don't come with hard drives. We don't pay for the MS Windows OS through HP since we already have a corporate license. Here's the link for you http://h18004.www1.hp.com/products/servers/platfor ms/index-dl.html
Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
It sure beats MS enforcing Windows being legal when you try to actually INSTALL windows. Why, if they did that, the world would be devoid of pirated Windows...just legit, secure Windows. And a few Linux machines here 'n there.
Obviously MS prefers that there be lots of insecure pirated Windows boxes out there. I wonder why...
Practice Kind Randomness and Beautiful Acts of Nonsense.
If they can't be bothered to pay for their support, they can switch to a "free" operating system with maintainers that give "free" patches to their "free" bugs and "free" vulnerabilities.
It would sure make my job easier as a consultant. If I had a license fee's worth for every pirated installation of Windows XP I've refused to support... "OK I need to replace this file, where's your XP CD-ROM?" "What XP CD-ROM?"
Use Evolution instead of Outlook? Bewa
With all the "MS world" filled with virus, worms and spyware they want to limit access to patches and updates? Seems a bad policy to me, it will only make things worse.
Imagine people that after an infection can't enter in Microsoft Update because the virus has tampered with the OS validation or whatever. A forever insecure machine asking to be converted to a zombie pc to spam everybody. Or something like this, just use your imagination.
This makes me thing in the new tools MS is developing like an antispyware or an antivirus. All this put those things into new perspective. "Be legal or be infected! Subscribe to MS antivirus..."
"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former" - Albert Einstein.
Last time I checked (that's today), Windows XP Professional cost almost 400 euros. Only 130 more and you're owner of Mac Mini with OS X. And last time I checked, Linux was still free as in beer (Ubuntu/Debian rocks). Note to Microsoft: 400 euros for an OS is _waayyy_ too much! Think 60 e and we'll talk.
How does this affect the Windows Update Catalog?
:)
Some of you may not be familiar with this, but if you log in to Windows Update and then go to Settings, there's a checkbox that says "Show a link to Windows Update Catalog".
What this does is let you actually browse ANY and ALL updates for ANY version of Windows. That is to say, regardless of whether they've ever been installed on the connecting machine.
I'm curious how this new/new-old/new-rehashed 'proof required' method will work for patches that do not pertain to the connecting OS. Right now I can log in with WinXP, patch myself merrily, and then switch over to the Catalog and download a bunch of patches for my Win98 box (to save some time, or avoid connecting my Win98 box to the Internet, etc.)
If logic follows, Microsoft will either have to get rid of the Catalog completely, or require a valid license for every different copy of Windows that you download patches for... The latter of course is particularly flawed, as Microsoft are not to know how many machines I plan on patching with my Catalog downloads...
Anyway, just a thought... and if none of you have seen this option, I do suggest you check it out as it means you only need 1 Windows machine on the Internet ever, and you can patch all the others to your heart's content...
One of our salespeople got some really tenacious spyware on his machine last week. We tried Spybot S&D, AdAware, HijackThis and then finally the new Beta Microsoft Anti-Spyware. I've been scoffing that it was a little ironic that the company who's responsible for Windows being so vulnerable has a lot of gall trying to peddle software to counteract the vulnerability.
Anyway, I digress. In order to download the Microsoft stuff, we had to do a "validation" which entailed entering our WinXP product code, followed by the name of the manufacturer of our laptop, the name of the place we bought it and one of those security codes in an image that you have to transcribe into a text box?!??! I'm surprised I didn't have to show proof of the Windows logo tattooed on my forehead.
BTW, despite notifications from every anti-spyware program that they had cleaned the machine of all spyware, none of them were able to get rid of it completely. None. We're going to have to re-format the whole damn box. In the meantime, I installed Firefox and told the guy only to use IE if he absolutely has to.
Apple has given out discount coupons (I'm NOT kidding) for OS upgrades that bring the price down to around $30. The only thing is that every now and then they release an OS upgrade that you can not use the coupons on (10.3 was the last one like this, from what I understand).
Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
Now on the other hand this is good for OSS movement. People shouldn't use software unless they pay for it. With enough people out there saying that they cannot (and justly so ) afford Windows then we'll have more and more understanding of open formats, open standards and everyone will know who the bully really is.
That would definitely convince the gamer crowd, but then again, this same group of people are really good at figuring out ways to circumvent copy protection schemes, etc... so they would probably have some pirated version of DirectX that could be installed on pirated versions of Windows.
We have heard this before.. and their subequent flip back to the other side..
They are about as bad as Kerry..
Personally i dont care either way.. Either i dont use windows products, or i can get around the problem.
But he 'annoucement' does give them lots of free press.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Sure, and I will be uber 1337 on UT2004 and WoW on my Playstation too, won't I?
Many online games check for appropriate keys. For many you can use a keygen to play single player, but it won't let you online (battle.net, etc) without a valid key.
(reminder, when throwing out cracked CD cases make sure you take the piece of paper with the key out).
* Software as a Component of the Computer - Transfer. THIS LICENSE MAY NOT BE SHARED, TRANSFERRED TO OR USED CONCURRENTLY ON DIFFERENT COMPUTERS. The SOFTWARE is licensed with the COMPUTER as a single integrated product and may only be used with the COMPUTER. If the SOFTWARE is not accompanied by HARDWARE, you may not use the SOFTWARE. You may permanently transfer all of your rights under this EULA only as part of a permanent sale or transfer of the COMPUTER, provided you retain no copies, if you transfer the SOFTWARE (including all component parts, the media, any upgrades, this EULA and the Certificate of Authenticity), and the recipient agrees to the terms of this EULA. If the SOFTWARE is an upgrade, any transfer must also include all prior versions of the SOFTWARE.
Note, this copy of XP is an "OEM" version, which I bought "with hardware" for a DIY system - maybe bundled name-brand computers have a different EULA?
The way I read it - you just can't "transfer" the license for simultaneous use, but you can transfer the license "with the hardware". In my case the hardware is pretty much the computer, but some vendors will sell you as little as a floppy cable as the "hardware". So, as long as you take that floppy cable to the new system, you are legit, right?
Also, I have this list from somewhere...
10 hardware characteristics (12 points) are used to determine the Windows XP hardware activation hash:
points item
1 Display Adapter
1 SCSI Adapter
1 IDE Adapter
3 Network Adapter MAC Address
1 RAM Amount Range (i.e. 0-64mb, 64-128mb, etc)
1 Processor Type
1 Processor Serial Number
1 Hard Drive Device
1 Hard Drive Volume Serial Number
1 CD-ROM / CD-RW / DVD-ROM.
For activation to remain valid 7 points must remain the same.
So, the grandparent post is an interesting question - logically, moving the license from a dead HP laptop to a working Dell laptop is no different than replacing a broken motherboard in my DIY system.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
This whole story seems like an "awe & shock" strategy. I mean, just look at some of the answers to these article "I'll get a serial number, I'll buy a license....".
I very much doubt Microsoft will put this anti-piracy checks into action, they are just trying to make people fear the possibility of having a weak machine and are trying to force them to buy licenses, if just 10% of "free" windows users buy licenses, Microsoft will be quite happy.
But, wether they admit it or not, piracy is good for Microsoft. Most of us cannot afford to pay what the software costs, still we have this urging need not to be left out of the technology revolution, and as with almost everything, first impression is still very important, and if you hear windows everywhere, you'll certainly try it and then you'll be undoubtely stucked into the microsoft environment. And I'm talking here about the REAL AVERAGE PC user, not the average slashdot reader. The point is, if people have 'free' access to windows, chances are they'll grow with it and end up using it on their worklife, where the money for microsoft REALLY is as no serious business will risk having unlicensed software. They'll be more reluctant to change to any other available possibility (Mac, Linux, you name it) as tehy paid for those licenses. This will make employers request 'microsoft' skills to potential employees, which in turn, will have to 'learn microsoft' out of fear of being jobless, and don't even think about saying "I do not use word I use openoffice".
It is a vicious circle and I'm sure microsoft is very well aware of this fact, and they are the least interested in breaking this circle.
The key to success for every technology is adoption, not quality. Just look at the Betamax-VHS case for a clear example.
To sum it up, if you currently use windows 'for free', don't worry, you'll still be able to do it for years and centuries to come.
(Sorry for posting twice, I didn't realize I was logged out)
I read articles like this and I think how it will affect legit users more than hackers/pirates/'thieves of IP'. Almost every time a large corporation puts out some blanket policy to 'stop theft' or 'create security' it hits the average user hardest. Most average users don't worry about patches that much to begin with...why? In the case of MS who tells them just turn on Automatic Updates and forget about it....then their machine crashes due to some update. Now they call the vendor for help(Dell, Gateway, etc). The technically challenged(or even sometimes somewhat technical user) is dragged through support calls for just following procedure. Now, bulk licensed copies, like those at the University I work...how do those get validated? There is no doubt that employees take home copies of slipstreamed WinXpSp2 and the University bulk license and use it. So, this is a legit license. The user may be using it improperly, but it is a legit key. What about the 'hardware checking' in XP? For example: A user changes out video card because they like to game, could take advantage of upgrade, but are not really that technical. Changing hardware like a video is rather simple these days...go to Best Buy or some store, buy the card, install the drivers...bing...done! Right? No. With the introduction of XP a user can in cases have their license questioned by MS for simply changing hardware in their machine; this can cause support calls, down times, and general headaches for something that is a users right to do. Continuing on with example... A message comes up after driver install to reboot. Being the 'good user' the installer follows directions. Machine comes back up. Hardware is all valid, the O/S license is valid...but....XP won't let user continue...call MS...get new key....your system has changed......geez! This simple example isn't anything that unusual. I've seen it happen multiple times. Just off the cuff....If Windows were to cost $50 for annual subscription(in America or any country where that price is 'fair') an an individual wasn't going to have their key revolked for hardware changes, didn't have to keep proving to the company they have a legit key, and could generally DO WHATEVER THEY WANT WITH THEIR STUFF I'd say discrete license checks would be fair. As it is, users seem to feel the need to update their ENTIRE machine every 2 years due to a sort of odd marketing training by hardware vendors and MS that their machine no longer cuts it....very flawed...and possibly expensive for many average users or even corporations. Other posts have already said this but....I too can do EVERYTHING I need on a Linux, Mac, or maybe even the new Amiga machines soon....except Gaming. If gaming ever moves to another platform with the support level that exists on Windows, I'm gone. That said, the average user doesn't use their machine beyond say 10% percent of its potential, yet continually upgrade to better hardware to support new O/S every two years(Longhorn delays are the exception). Why? I have a computer to run apps, video/audio editing, gaming, word processing, email, chat, etc. Why should the O/S get in my way? The purpose of ANY O/S is to shut up and let users get whatever it is they need done. To wrap up, I see this as desperation by MS. It is alarming to see the U.S. stuck with lousy licensing models while other countries wise up and demand better. I really don't care who does it at this point....Linux, Apple, Be O/S, Amiga4.x, SUN, etc. There really needs to be the competition in O/S realm to accomplish for users in software that AMD did for hardware. When Corporations are FORCED to compete, everybody wins. Nuff said.
From what I have seen, most of the people using pirated versions of windows are people who do not care about security in the first place and generally get owned at the first virus outbreak. As for those who own legitimate copies, well, the non-tech ones are generally the same way. They usually turn off auto updates as it is anoying.
Fly me to the moon Let me sing among those stars Let me see what spring is like On jupiter and mars
Dont have that annoying problem.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Or is this a tactic to drive sales of MS's new anti-spyware software?
Well, there goes Asia. I don't think MS has sold more than a dozen legal copies of anything anywhere west of Hawaii.
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
They kind of already do this in office. They require you to put the original CD back in. In every instance I've had to do an update it's been legal copies and some of my customers don't keep their CDs handy. It's been a nightmare.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
An unpatched copy of windows is just waiting to become a spambot.
Sure, maybe it'll force some people into buying a new copy. However, if you've already installed a hot copy of windows, I'll bet you won't have an aversion to re-installing if the machine gets dorked up. And re-installing. And re-installing.
Hmmm, perhaps making applications "version aware". Applications like games. If they won't run on an unpatched system, I'll bet more people will pony up.
Of course, that could then, in turn, lead to p2p windows image sharing. Use Ghost (or dd) to image a legit copy of windows, and share that around. As long as the image doesn't appear twice, no reason it wouldn't work... Until it's keyed to the hardware... etc, etc, etc.
What makes them believe they have the authority to make such restrictions in the first place?
The same authority that you have when you create and publish something. Sell it however and to whomever under whichever conditions you see fit. If the other person in the transaction agrees to it, then both parties have done just that: agreed to it, and set conditions.
You may not have "paid for it once" at all - you may have paid only a portion of its value because of a special pricing engagement between MS and some hardware manufacturer - a deal you'd never, ever have been personally able to strike buying one copy under different circumstances.
Note that this has nothing to do with whether or not this is smart on MS's part (PR-wise), but it sure is within their rights, and enforcing their rights against pirates in general helps to maintain the larger value of creative work throughout the industry.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
It's not like using your phone. It's like losing the case to your phone which happens to contain the activation code. Then when your phone battery dies or something like that, your fully-functional phone is useless without the key to unlock it.
Even with the original disc you can't walk into the store and get a new key.
It's not hard to lose a case with a key. CD cases get cracked easily enough and have to be replaced, etc... it's just a little piece of paper in there that's easy enough to forget.
And as for being a pirate when installing with an invalid key, CD-keys are really a form of copy protection. You're "breaking" that protection by using a key that isn't yours, but you're not "pirating" anything.
As somebody who has lost a software key before, I find that it's a good idea to buy a 5-pack of coloured sharpie markers. Use an appropriate colour and mark the key on your disc and/or copies... that way if the case goes missing you've still got the key. I do that *and* add it to a file of all my keys just in case.
Your computer cannot run without an operating system, so to deny any kinds of operating system updates will cause more problems as more and more systems don't get the necessary fixes to keep from having the box commandeered by whomever.
Yes, Microsoft has a right to deny updates/support for pirated software. This could easily become a public relations nightmare, however, when the systems running pirated copies of Windows start causing all kinds of havoc on the internet... not that they don't already, but it will get a lot worse.
Also, if they're offering "discounted" licenses to reduce the amount of piracy in China, Norway, Czech Republic, etc, why do they think they can still charge $180+ for a license in the US? That's a rip-off.
OCO is Loco
The pirates should stop using pirated goods. If they actually *tried* to keep up to date in the first place and were denied, they'd know they are vulnerable and should a) stop using the pirated software or b) get a legit copy.
It'll take some digging to find a mirror since newer versions of this utility have become payware. Anyway AIDA32 can (among many other things) extract your product key from the Registry.
if this will apply to my educational version of Microsoft products. Universities in Maryland distribute copies of various Microsoft applications (Windows XP/2000, Office XP/2000/.NET, etc) to students free of charge. Of course these are legal copies, but they do not require a CD-key to install. Perhaps the lack of a key will result in Microsoft assuming it's pirated?
God only knows what they are going to send and install ..
"You did not want that new DRMized media player? Too bad.. you get it anyway".. Or "SPxx breaks your older copy of MSO? well thats tough, you will have to upgrade"... or later down the road " we see your serial number for xxx is invalid, we will remove that program for you, automatically, for your protection"
---- Booth was a patriot ----
What an excellent way to shift the blame.
"Well, there wouldn't be so many worms and exploits out there if it wasn't for those damned pirates."
"Sorry dear customer, due to all those evil pirates, you got infected by a worm."
"It wasn't our software, it was the pirates."
For your Mom, the Mac is ready to replace Windows.
For people more knowledgeable and wanting to be on the cheap, Linux is ready to replace windows on hardware they already have.
It's a killer two-pronged attack. And I agree with the parent that the harder you actually make something to pirate, the more people you will shove into legitimate sofwtare - some of it will be replacing pirated copies with legal ones, but other instances will be customers jumping ship to cheaper or easier solutions.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
see we don't have to do anything - eventually people will just get sick of forking out money for viruses and spyware and then they will either use linux or mac. eventually microsoft will implode. you can only get so big.
...But I totally agree.
The analogy is horribly flawed.
Yes. I have heard that stupid property analogy over and over, and it simply does not apply.
Of course, if we were all logicians, we would already know that "argument by analogy" is a classic logical fallacy. That, however, is beside the point...since this particular analogy is also so inappropriate.
Data does not obey the same laws of physics as property. Therefore, data is not property, should not be thought of as property, and should not be governed by the same laws as property.
Of course it CAN have governing laws, and they CAN include concepts of ownership, replication and/or use regulation, and so forth. But such concepts should be built upon an accurate understanding of how data behaves, as opposed to an understanding of how material objects behave.
The keys themselves are a big source of contention though. Corp edition demand keyless installations. Why? Because it's a royal pain in the f***ing ass to install 50-100 machines and dump in the keys for every single one.
But if you want a secure installation using keys, you need to require that even corp machines use the keys. Otherwise, modifications/cracks can still be made to allow the non-corp 'pirates' a keyless install.
I for one find keys a huge pain in the ass. One of the many measures against piracy that only stop the undetermined.
You bought the disc the software was on. You licensed the bits on the disc :P
I believe that this key is often referred to as the "Devil's key" or "Devil's code." It was one of the first and most common keys used in pirated windows versions. I believe it might have been an MS testing code that got into the wild, but I don't have any sources to back that up.
3pts for mac adress!! counting ram size at all!!
And IIRC the server will only re-auth five times.
This isn't about illeagle copies, it's about forced new buys.
Many broadband isp's have braindead software that only works with supplied ethernet card, even if you already have one or built in ethernet. This was more true when xp came out. Boink 3 pt.s right there. Most common upgrade is probably ram or video card, though HD wouldn't to far behind.
That's right buy more ram and get broadband and a new video card for the latest greatest game and your activating again.
Mycroft
https://signup.leagueoflegends.com/?ref=4c3ed6600b6ea
Considering the Playstation is *cheaper* than the Windows license...
Um, how about no. When windows craps out, you can't install OSX on your PC, because you have a PC, not a mac. If you did buy a mac it won't run all your existing software (though neither would linux). And the cost difference of the mac hardware (exempting some recent systems such as the mini-mac) exceeds the cost of an XP license.
Some companies' corporate agreements allow for home use as well. And furthermore some people take their equipment home. There's no reasonable way they could keep track of the distribution of a corporate key like that unless they audited each and every person who they could prove used it.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
Microsoft builds OSes and have made security a top priority now, given how bad a job they have done at it. So a way that they want to protect their software from pirates is by forcing legitimate users to jump hurdles to access this security. One would think that the richest software company in the world could figure out a way to actually make the process EASIER for the legitimate users and more difficult for the pirates.
Considering that MS Windows boxes are already the easiest to hack into and infect with spyware and viruses, I can just imagine how easy virus writing is going to become when half the computers in the world are running without having been updated in years.
Getting a good spam or DDOS bot network together will get even easier, as new flaws are found in MS Windows but are not patched on the 50%+ of installations that aren't properly licensed.
Dell Workstation with Linux pre-installed
I guess that would be a save bet since scenario #2 is already happening, even without the new anti-piracy measures. I've seen (licenced) windows systems where the "new updates ready to be installed" icon in the systray had been ignored for over half a year...
I'm trying to improve my English. Please correct me on any spelling/grammar errors in this post.
All the right in the world, I'm afraid. It is a stupid move - warez really are the only thing that can save windows in the long run - but they have this right if you agree with their licensing.
One thing that bothers me. If you place the old hd in the dell, will that work? Probably not. What parts do have to be replaced to call it another computer? If I change network cards (which I do frequently) is my system then different? Do I have a different computer? Microsoft's policy says I do, and when you agree with their terms, you have little choice.
It is however pure arrogance that MS thinks it can not only decide what you do with your software (read MS EULA for that,'bout connections) but also what you can do with your hardware.
It is very funny that people even buy this from them.
It's long been time to turn off the intarweb. You know, not for ever and ever and ever. But at least a few months. This is the best god damn way to go about doing it.
Nuke the entire site from orbit.
MSFT WINS! Fatality!
Not trying to be flamish, but that's what came into my head once I read this headline. It's a major policy shift.
There is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men. -- Boondock Saints
I would like to personally thank Microsoft for giving the world yet another good reason for using linux (not that I needed any more). Anyone now using a pirated copy of windows is now faced with three options, 1) stop updating their machine, 2) switch to another OS (most likely linux) or 3) spend $100 plus for a licensed copy of windows. I think 80% of people will opt for 1 or 2 (with most opting for 1), I would be willing to be they will lose more desktops to linux because of this, than they will sell additional copis of Windows. Virus writer of the world rejoice you will now have access to tens of millions of more machines than you alredy have!!!
I paid for a copy of XP when I bought this Sony laptop. But I use a corporate copy of XP and a warez key so that I can have Windows without all the garbage that the Sony cd installs. Too bad that this will affect me even though I'm a paying customer.
I don't care about the "pirates" and I couldn't care less about MS profits, but they screw up the collective internet and take no responsibility.
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
Microsoft: What is your name!
Me: Stephen
Microsoft: What is yur quest!
Me: I seek the Security Patches!
Microsoft: What is your product Key?
Me: Uh, I don't know that Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
If religous zealots don't believe in Evolution, then why are they so worried about bird flu?
Somebody mod that post up!
The current climate of bot-ridden Windows PC's is perfect for launching a cyberattack on the nation's computing infrastructure.
Lucky for us it's Russians interested in selling spamming service but it doesn't have to be. I would be very surprised if Al'Qa'eda doesn't have someone working on this - whether they will launch it or not, the cost is just too low and the result too asymmetrical for them not to drool over it.
The Department of Homeland Security should be involved in this 'discussion'. Fortunately the government gets to tell monopolies how to behave. Unfortunately, they aren't.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Remember, after you run IE, you have to reboot to flush it out, because it doesn't exit.
The Reuters article mentions Norway: "Microsoft is also targeting software piracy in China, Norway and the Czech Republic, where the use of pirated software is more widespread, by offering discounts to users of pirated copies of Windows"
That's a surprise to me. What are the laws in Norway? Perhaps the copies are illegal in Microsoft-land... But are those copies really illegal in Norway?
I see:
"Sec. 19. When a copy of a work has been sold with the consent of the author, the copy may be further distributed amongst the public. The same shall apply to copies of issued works, and any copy of a work of art or photographic work which the author has assigned in any other way.
The provisions of the first paragraph shall not confer a rental right, except in respect of buildings and works of applied art. Nor do the provisions confer a lending right in respect of machine-readable copies of computer programs. Exchanges that are carried out as an organized activity shall be considered on a par with rental"
of say, $30, i bet they wouldn't NEED to combat piracy at all.
But frankly, I think Microsoft has WAY TOO MUCH MONEY in their hands to have an excuse for their completely incompetent security in their software. Will more money make their development more efficient? I don't think so.
The check failed on all the systems I just got from Dell. It didn't say I had pirated versions, just that it could not verify and that I should contact my vendor.
I am just waiting for my clients to start calling me saying I gave them pirated software.
Thanks SO much, Microsoft!
Two copies of XP Corporate were leaked before XP actually released. One copy was released by a group (or individual, i don't know) called 'devil's 0wn'. That's the key from that copy.
Windows is WAY to expensive. I agree, but I dont see what is wrong with MS wanted to get paid for thier intellectual property.
Buying a copy of XP Pro for personal use is a hardship, but its a one time hardship. Not like buying a car which is what three hundred bucks a month for 60 months,not to mention insurance, or having all the premium channels which is again maybe 150/month, or paying for all those monthly game subscriptions. Which is more of a crime than MS asking for people to actually BUY thier OS if they use it.
It is better to be the hammer than the anvil.
It is better to be the hammer than the anvil.
...I would rather see them sht down the OS upon detection of an illegal copy...break the network stack entirely. Erase the OS, but leave the data on the drive something like that....
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
I agree with you. I do not use Windows at all. I use other operating systems (OSX, AIX, Linux). I am not trying to act "better than" but you really can't complain about this unless you are already cheating and this now makes it more difficult for you to perpetuate your piracy.
If you purchased a legitimate license (either from the purchase of computer or off the shelf) you have nothing to worry about. I used to download pirated music and software a lot. Then when I got buggy and potentially unsecure applications/files, I didn't have a right to complain. Same goes here.
Flexible bare-metal recovery for Linux/UNIX
I am a developer with a MSDN license. That's right; I have the right to use their pathetic crap in my work which is all I use it for. I hate to activate their products so I use a crack. Yep, I do not have to but I do it anyway. I hate having them be able to track every computer I use. I hate the fact it seems that every time I do something to a box to change a piece of software or hardware it makes me call again, not everyone connects every computer to the Internet you know. I hate the fact they make me take one extra minute of my precious time to do this. I figured it out by the way, on the machines I work on a lot, it is costing my company an extra $150 a box a year in my wasted time dealing with the crap. Do not think MS has not offered us a Volume license, but that has huge hidden cost for small companies. I hate the ActiveX control has to be on to do this which means I have to have it on by default and then disable it to prevent viral disasters. Until now I have dealt with using a Windows box as my primary platform, but I am so sick of it and them. They treat their own people like criminals, they watch and track every change I do to a machine knowing where it is and even what sort of changes I may have done, and they create hurdle after hurdle to ease of use. They have forgotten that they became 90% of the market because >50% of users use pirated versions of their products. They now arrogantly think they can not be left behind and we, their developers, will act like trained sheep an follow them wherever the go. Well guess what, I like open source I support it. In time I hope it will match MS one day and I will sure as hell aid that process. For example, today I was asked to look at forums, I saw .NET versions and I saw Java and PHP versions. I saw open source versions and I saw closed versions. Well guess which ones I will recommend. Open source products often work well and frankly I would rather spend an extra few minutes tweak their conf file, reading a piece of documentation or listserv to get them working rather that being a MS's lap dog waitng on the phone for permission to user their products. I would rather tweak an open source product's code and give it back to them than pay for a black box. We are not a forum company so we have nothing to lose by this, we just want a good forum and when we give our tweaks back we are helping ourselves and everyone else by making a better product. We are still making money and we are not starting the apocalypse as MS would have you believe. As they say, may they reap what they have sown.
Not true: security holes don't help sell Windows, security holes help getting money from people who use Windows illegally. Complain as much as you want about MS, but don't blame them for NOT helping people who steal their software.
What you said is just demagogical. Then again, this is Slashdot. What's the point in expecting people to be unbiased and think for themselves...
For a few years now (~3 to 4), MSFT has allowed entire countries to pirate Windows XP freely for home and professional use. Countries like China, among many others in the far east, rely almost exclusively on pirated copies of XP that are purchased illegally on the street. MSFT, whether anyone likes to admit it or not, is extremely intelligent when it comes to business. They have essentially captured 100% market share in countries where 99% of the residents could not afford to purchase a $300 copy of Windows XP with an entire year's salary with this policy. You can see MSFT freely admit this activity with a little searching. Now that MSFT is allowing only legal copies of XP to be updated, they are entering the second phase of the policy in which they force these developing countries to *continue* to use XP. Anyone who thought that they might have gotten the better of MSFT by pirating is now on the losing end, as they have to shell out cash at some point in the future to stay protected from the millions of exploits/spyware/adware/pwnxed/etcetc that plague Windows. Watch in a few years when Microsoft dominates China's telecom market with the fact that everyone is using Windows.
If you buy the retail version (higher price), you can move it to different machines.
A year ago, we decided to "get legal" and purchased the retail boxes for Win 2000 (no activation).
PJRC: Electronic Projects, 8051 Microcontroller Tools
As a Free Software integrator, for me is much easier to sell "Windows to Linux Migration", once that now I can tell them that their non-legal copies of MS Windows XP and 2000 will no longer have security updates.
Cool :o) More money to me.
-=-=-=-=
I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be un-fair in MY favor!?
Hah, as you suggested DRM has some serious issues (+inurl:"slashdot.org" +DRM). But you seriously have to consider one thing: USERS DONT CARE
I've seen a lot of people who really wouldn't care - they can all share music & videos with their friends. Most are suckers for buying the 'Real Thang®', and most of them won't notice a lot of the things your talking about (unless they buy their computers from the local dodgy comp shop).
Until your mom & dad get a clue - the only thing we can do is spread FUD amongst our relatives, and install InsertNonMsPlatformHere on their machines the next time we're round there removing all that junk
You wanna know the kinda people I'm talking about? I got a call at 9:30pm from somebody saying 'My machines gone nutz'... When I got there 2 days later the machine was still on - showing that wonderful Windows XP BSOD, explicitly saying 'Reboot the machine and see if it happens again' sorta thing!
Can't wait until MS releases win 3.1 source! Sorry, just wanted to see if my new sig worked properly ...
How is this interesting? If anything, it's a blatent troll.
Of *course* people are going to get around any blocks you put in place. There will always be someone out there that can outdo you.
This is not an issue about the security of Windows. Most of us agree (including myself) that Windows has it's share of security problems. There is no ruse, just Microsoft trying to protect it's profeits... like any corporation should do.
Most people don't know much about computers because they don't think they need to or are not interested. There is nothing objectively wrong with this. I think the car analogy is appropriate here. Most people don't know enough about cars to fix one, but they want to use them. Personally, I set my family up with Mac's and they have few problems. But for x86, Linux is the way to go.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
I got my copy of Windows 2000 Professional and Windows 98 from an MSDN developer who pays for ten seats for every MS OS there is. He gave me one of his seats, since he's a solo developer.
So now if I register these OS's, what does Microsoft do about that? Technically, they're already registered and any of up to ten different people could be using them.
I got my Windows XP Professional and Windows Server 2003 from the MSDNAA program, so they're in the clear. Even if I stop being a student, according to their FAQ, I still license that software.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
i read somewhere that piracy of oses helps their adoption in new markets, anyone know if this is true?
Already there baby! Company policy is to not have Windows boxes facing the internet. They must all be firewalled. Only Linux gets to play on the 'net.
"What the American public doesn't know is what makes them the American public." -Ray Zalinsky (Tommy Boy)
Yet another reason why I'm glad to still be running 2000 at home. MS will quit supporting it someday, but by that point I expect to fully transition to Linux anyway.
[javac] 100 errors
I'm ALL for making the TRUE cost of windows to ALL users CLEAR!!!
If you want to use the world's UGLIEST operating system you will now have to PURCHASE a proper copy like you were ALWAYS supposed to do.
Absolutely you're either not telling the complete story (ie, you've made several changes recently as many geeks are known to do) or you're simply trying to spread FUD. I personally worked on the "activation" portion of the XP distribution and can tell you for a fact that a single memory change WILL NOT cause a needed activation. Try several changes within a month, ie, processor, disk drive, memory... or motherboard, memory, video... or... you get the idea.
what's the point of disabling people from manually going into windows update when it will still update through automatic update. and even if they block both ways, can't a typical person just simply go to microsoft.com and download the .exe version of a patch and install it manually that way? it'll be a pain in the butt, especially if you have 3 or 4 machines but couldn't it be done nonetheless?
I guess you missed this: "Still, Cooper said he expected Microsoft to eventually cut off that security update avenue for pirated copies. He said the company may feel it has few other options as it tries to stop the millions of users who are running pirated copes of Windows.".
www.timcoleman.com is a total waste of your time. Never go there.
like asking you to used automatic updates every time you try to manually update wasn't dumb enough now come this crap. What I would like to know is how come M$'s greed keeps growning more and more? How far do they really think that they can go before people say that enough is enough? As far as switching to Linux goes it is absolutelly not true that Linux is not ready for the desktop computer. I can't believe that there are still people that seem to believe one of the oldest lies about linux. Linux was designed for desktop use and has never been anything but a desktop OS. The only thing is that there actually is not distinction between Desktop OS and server OS anywhere but in M$'s world. It is true that linux is no drop in replacement for windows but noone needs another crappy OS anyway. If you ever choose to switch to a different OS you will always have to learn new things and should the case with linux be any different? So to those of you that are saying that linux is not ready for your parents or your grandparents I have only one thing to say "Neither is WindowsXP but they use it as much as they can." After all noone needs a fast car that can do over 120mph but people buy them all the time.
but certainly entirely predictable action by
MSFT. As they continue to use DRM to lock-down
their OS and Apps Suite, at some point the legit
commercial users will be effected in a HUGE way.
If you think about the effect of bad/wrong
upgrades had on 50,000 client computers at the
British Ministry of Health was just stupidity/
ignorance on the part of their 3rd party support
provider, consider the effect when MILLIONS of
MSFT's legit users cannot stay on-line long
enough for their Updates on-line.
The present legal environment in the USA does
seem to preclude any guilt or responsibility
on MSFT's part for releasing buggy/vulnerable
software. CIO's and CTO's are going to be hung
out to dry when their corporate networks go down,
and they are in a 3-4 hour MSFT support que for
some resolution.
Let the Penguinista Revolution begin!
Or, run Belarc and get ALL your license keys in one handy HTML file, and a list of all the software on your system, and model numbers and serial numbers of some of your hardware, and...
For everything else there's Mastercard....?? No, Everest.
alright!! 250k+ more ddos bots for the rest of us. jk.
I have to disagree.
:)
The main reason being that most of the people pirating windows XP are above average computer users.
Your average Joe doesn't pirate XP because:
1) He didn't know you could
2) He likes the safe, secure feeling that having support gives him (until he actually has to call them
3) He's not technically literate enough to build and install a pirated copy.
The portion of the XP population that would most strongly be driven towards macs (users who are less computer literate) own legal copies of XP.
Users who have pirated copies of XP are looking for the lowest cost OS. They choose XP because MS dominates the market, so all the stuff they want to run is available. These users are likely to choose linux if they realize that an insecure system is not worth running, because they'll go to the lowest cost secure OS that runs on their current hardware.
// harborpirate
// Slashbots off the starboard bow!
Rob Enderle, principal analyst with the Enderle Group, is expecting the more stringent authentication system to be successful, as Internet attacks become ever more sophisticated and users with pirated copies of Windows become helpless to stop them.
Should be read as:
Rob Enderle, only analyst with his one man company, ignorant and uninformed quote machine as well as a paid stooge of Microsoft, says whatever they want.
And no, she isn't one of those computer sawy mom's either. Quite far from it, she is so un-sawy that for her the computer is just a (big) 'typewriter'-machine.
Her switch from Windows-->Linux was a:
I don't claim I know more than I know, and if you know you know more than I know, then by all means, let me know.
From the sound of it this decision by MS could potentially cause future problems for me, unless anyone has ideas. I have multiple Windows based PCs, all with legal licenses. I live in the middle of no where. The only option I have for highspeed is sattilite access but I refuse to pay $500 + for equipment fees and then $70 a month for around 500kbps I think? Therefore I am still stuck with dial-up. Since bandwidth is limited, I have to take some extra steps to download Windows updates. I go to Windows update, see what updates I need then I manually download them one by one from microsoft.com. I do this manualybecause I can save the updates like a regular file and then install them later on the other machines. If I use automatic update I have to re-download the updates for each machine which literally takes forever. If microsoft stops letting me download the updates manually from www.microsoft.com/downloads I'm going to need another method, any ideas? I guess I could go to my nearest friend who has highspeed but thats about 20 min away and it would be impractical taking my PC everytime.
Oh God. Mod this reply up. Supposedly from the horses mouth (ok AC and all), an admission that changing the spec of your PC will affect your OS licences. New HDD, video card, for Christ's sake, what sort of drugs are you guys on?
-- Free software on every PC on every desk
I just read an editorial suggesting that M$ should opensource NT4 http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,175 3592,00.asp and perhaps even opensource last spring's leaked source http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,152 7013,00.asp
Thoughts, anyone??
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
"if you have a pirated copy of Windows, the only way to obtain security updates will be through the automatic updates mechanism." What about the pirate update.
I noticed early on that WinXP seemed to be designed around Dell hardware. It has also occurred to me that some of the activation points are designed to help "encourage" complete hardware replacement, rather than upgrades or DIY boxes. Draw your own conclusions...
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
The license binds the software to the CPU.
managment - "lets stop all pirated copies of windows by not allowing them to update, that'll stop them getting all those brillant new features we pack into updates! those pesky pirates will be so heart broken they will be forced to run out and buy a copy!" ...meanwhile in the real world.....
"in other news, china and most of asia is swamped with viruses, having the knock on effect that everyone else in the world get 100000000+ spam emails a day and constantly bombarded with virus activity"
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
Just stupid P.I.T.A. for me - I work in small company (~machines), I do own licenses for Windows XP Home Edition - it works for us and it is really cheap, also any other commercial software - I own it. We are not thieves.
But! I make my live easier by using techinques like (no central passwd management since HE can't run in domain) workstation disk imagining (we do images every few nights as a backup copies), documents are stored on central server and backuped every night, I have scripts that install everything (including reg keys pushing in licenses). All of my key infrastre runs Linux (router/GW is OpenBSD). Windows machines are ran with automatic update on (they connect via transparent proxy so this is not bandwith hog at all, an I have control on what gets installed). All because Windows is expensive and hardware is cheap.
But now somehow I know some (or entire) of my infrastructure will break upon this scheme.
I just can't wait till I get my CorelDRAW working on Linux and till my goverment stops pushing me towards Windows (we must run Windows to pay taxes - tax softare is only Windows)...
Moral grounds? This isn't funny anymore.
When I can't do my job because the customer chose to install seven pirate copies of XP Pro, and I can't install a service pack which I know will solve all of their problems, what exactly am I supposed to do?
And later, if I'm accused of trying to steal a client's money by selling them seven legit copies of XP in place of their seven pirate copies (true story!), exactly how am I supposed to support them? By installing seven copies of SUSE Linux? And then trying to explain that their travel reservation software doesn't work?
No. I am not that desparate for business to deal with that much shit and abuse. And I don't want their friends' business, either, if they do the exact same thing. They're not supportable.
There are enough honest customers out there with broken yet supportable installations to keep me in business.
"We reserve the right to refuse service."
Use Evolution instead of Outlook? Bewa
And a valid product key as proof of purchase and eligibility for support.
The CDs that Dell provides with their notebooks doesn't even require product activation! But there's a legit key attached to that noteboook, and the CD was actually a customized Windows XP CD-ROM, complete with their standard blue-screen boot-up and installation software. Ditto, Compaq (except maybe for the product activation).
At least it's supportable. I can't say the same thing for the hole-in-the-wall PC shops with their Norton Ghost restoration CDs that use the same product key and SIDs for all of the machines that go out their door. They don't even bother to sysprep them.
Use Evolution instead of Outlook? Bewa
...of computers with insecure pirated Windows boxes.
Pirating software is a choice made by the USER. If they can support themselves and they need to save a few bucks, fine. But I won't be able to support them because they won't give me the tools I need to do so.
And what did you think M$ was trying to do with product keys, product activation, etc during INSTALLation as you wished for in your post? "the world would be devoid of pirated Windows..."
What a short memory Slashdotters have. I remember a very loud crowd of you crying "foul!" when Product Activation first came about: "It's a blatant privacy violation! M$ wants to spy on everyone installing XP!" Bah. You want Microsoft to enforce legal copies of Windows on INSTALLATION instead of during a Service Pack deployment? Maybe you should have activated your copy of XP when you installed it, instead of trying to circumvent it.
Cheapass users made piracy the problem it is today. Sure, overinflated prices helped, but supply and demand would have brought those prices down naturally. If more people refused to buy XP instead of pirating it, the price would have dropped in order to sell them. Then we'd have more legit and supportable copies out there. Instead, cheapass users chose to bypass supply and demand, and have now found themselves unsupported. Boo, hoo. You get what you pay for.
Use Evolution instead of Outlook? Bewa
this is great, since i rarely see any legit windows boxes, i guess this would be a further incentive for "the people" to move to a free platform such as linux...
Well, first of all, the article specifically states that security updates will not be affected:
"The article is light on details about what versions of Windows this will affect."
Once again, the article specifically states that XP will be affected, and since 2K is just NT5.0 and XP is NT5.1, it's probably a safe bet that the same thing will apply to both products.
So they're just restricting access for upgrades to paying customers. Big deal.
Nothing to see here, move along.
https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere
um.. If this was to happen wouldn't pirates just pirate the patches and service packs as well?
Those who need MS software for business, can afford to pay the license. If not, they're screwed anyhow, they will go bancrupt soon. Compared to other business expenses, MS licenses are negligable.
The rest really don't need it, they use it for convenience. So what? They have alternatives -- Linux, OpenOffice and other OSS or cheap software are ready to use. Don't use MS software if you cannot afford it. You have other alternatives.
(Btw, This has been typed on a Linux desktop. I need to work with MS software in my business line of work, and I would never pirate them or anybody else. I don't want anybody to pirate my own proprietary software either. I share my Open Source work, that's OK, but it's my decision what to share, as is MS's.)
Joachim
People don't write Manifestos any more -- what's going on in this world? [Frank Zappa]
God, I lost my Half Life key years ago and it was a complete nightmare. I just resigned myself to pirating the game and whenever the pirated copies expired, I'd give it another go and eventually I just quit playing it. Even worse is what I went through with Norton. I paid to upgrade to Norton 2004 when one of my license keys was due to expire for that year. Norton 2004 fucked my PC up to a horrible degree, couldn't click it, couldn't do anything. I had to uninstall and went through some horrible clueless helpdesk calls (Which they tried to bill me for!) before they sent me a boxed copy, which cost me EXTRA. Which also didn't work. I then requested that I be downgraded to 2003. They refused. They refused to sell me software I had purchased the year prior. At this stage, I went ahead and pirated Norton 2003. When my license expired this year, I went and bought NOD32 and I haven't had a problem. Hopefully, eventually, all this runaround due to "anti-piracy" measures will put these companies in the ground.
Don't they have that built in their software?
C'mon how much more clue does Chariman Bill need to give you that he wants everyone to dump MS-Windows?
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Not to mention laptop users with corp. versions of XP.. Laptops are for travelling and using the Internet while travelling is gonna affect your IP.
Back when everyone found out certain pirated copies of XP were blacklisted from Windows Update, I made the prediction that we would see a new type of worm that changed the user's XP key to the one that was blacklisted, to prevent security updates which might stop future payloads. I was a bit disappointed when MS said they were considering lifting the blacklist in order to get everyone on board with SP2, but I'm happy they changed their minds again. Stay tuned for an exciting new batch of business-crippling worms. Also, stay tuned for the pirates to spend a few nanoseconds coming up with cracked updates.
M$ teamup with Intel and AMD and put some sort of 25 digit key inside the processor and when you run Windows you can unlock it only with a key from M$. When you sell the processor you can sell it with the decrypt key.
I signed no contract to authorize additional terms beyond copyright restrictions. Copyright restrictions do not allow me to make additional copies (not installed on two at once), but do not restrict me from moving it from place to place.
As for the cost, I don't give a damn what it costs in the overall price. Why should I? I bought a copy of the operating system with the machine. The machine doesn't work, but the software still does. Besides, when I bought my laptop with XP Pro (an upgrade from XP Home), I recall having to pay something like $50-100 more for the privilage (exact amount unknown, since my sales bill is not with me).
But basically, no signed contract, no right to enforce additional restrictions not covered by law. "OEM Licensing" is not a term defined by law, as far as I'm aware.
I write and publish a book, and it gets sold as a part of a 'home package', giving you something to read while you're at home. However, I put something on the cover to the effect of "This can only be read in this house". How likely do you think that is to stand up as a lawful or sane restriction? If I take it to another house (hense, removing it from the first one), I do not break copyright, but I break the "OEM license" by taking it somewhere else to read.
Any deal for special pricing was between Microsoft and the OEM, not me directly, as I don't see any itemization for the price of the OS I bought. For all I know or care, that discounted price to OEMs is a bulk-rate discount, similar to the ones normal individuals can see buying the same item between Walmart and Sams Club (as an example).
No, I'm sorry. I'm still not convinced that OEM License restrictions are in any way legally binding to me. No contract, no foreknowledge of the terms to be applied to my purchase, and most importantly, MS and the OEM only have implied consent (dubious, since I could be unaware) not explicit consent to the restrictions placed upon my purchase of the OS.
All the right in the world? Show me a contract that I agreed to beforehand, and I might believe you. Show me the law where such non-transferable authority is placed upon the manufacturer. Prove to me it's legit and legal, and maybe I'll believe you.
The only thing I'm aware that applies is Copyright law, and if I had signed a contract, the legal provisions therein.
I'm still not convinced that OEM License restrictions are in any way legally binding to me
I think you're splitting hairs, here. I completely agree that such licenses may not be wise on a publisher's part (because it makes them look like twits unless you know all the details). I'm talking about whether they can go down that silly road if they want to, and if you agree to go with them.
A stipulation that you're not going to be able to take your copy of XP with you from one laptop to another may seem ridiculous, but consider this:
You could go to Wal-Mart and buy a copy of XP, somewhat discounted off of the full price. You can then do whatever you want with it, regardless - upgrade machines every month, and just keep moving the license from machine to machine. But consider, say, Toshiba, who wants to sell you a laptop with XP on it. They'll sell untold thousands of them, and put a bunch of money into getting the drivers set up just right, documents and CDs packaged just so, etc. They're also going to foot the bill for the support phone calls when you try to get some wacky USB device to work, or have problems with networking, etc. Eventually, you kill that laptop, and then want to put that copy of XP on a home-brew whitebox for gaming. Crazy AGP port things happen, and you call MS about wierd behavior. They look at your license key, and see that they made very little money on that license sale because, as part of that deal, it was Toshiba that elected to take on the support of such problems. But... Toshiba, of course, won't want to touch that with a ten foot pole because you're not even using the hardware that they know how to support. The $80 that you (as part of a bundle) paid for that license simply doesn't cover the level of support that might go into using XP under (from MS and Toshiba's point of view) circumstances for which it wasn't priced. I can extend the analogy, but I'm sure you see my point.
Don't disappoint your bird dog. Go to the range.
Should we be surprised? M$ need to set some cash aside for the $600+ penalty they might have to pay in the EU.
the princess ... before or after alderaan was vaporized?