Slashdot Mirror
FedEx Cracks Down on Box Furniture, Citing DMCA
nospmiS remoH writes "Wired is running an article about a guy with no money making furniture out of FedEx boxes. If that weren't strange enough, FedEx is going after him, legally citing the DMCA. Yes, the DMCA. Apparently they are not upset about the furniture itself but rather this site that he put up with pictures of his creations (pretty good work really). My favorite quote from the article, '...Avila clearly intended to operate a business from his website because he used the .com domain suffix, the "commercial level domain," rather than .net.' You just can't make this stuff up."
I explored both his site and the fedex site... seems to get the boxes from fedex, you need an account... the good new? the USPS will send you free shipping supplies :)
Can they justifiably go after him for trademark violations? Absolutely. But copyright? You'd have to be insane.
It's constantly amazing to see the extent to which people will abuse the DMCA to get what they want.
I love their generosity.
UPS, especicially. You can get huge "25KG" boxes intended for international shipping. I have UPS drop these on my doorstep every time I move, all for free.
It's free publicity for FexEx. And now, it's all negative!
I think fellow used fedex.com to order a whole lot of boxes with no intention of using them to actually ship stuff in. It's a bit like someone taking an enormous number of ketchup packets from a Burger King in order to have ketchup in his house, rather than using them on the fries he didn't buy there. So I can see why FedEx would take umbrage at his using the boxes they're paying for to make furniture, and then turning around and showing everyone in the world how what a bunch of suckers FedEx is for giving boxes away for free.
You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
It's only a matter of time before FedEx starts going after the homeless that live in FedEx boxes...
As much as I see complaints about companies like this, I rarely see anyone suggesting anything to help remedy the situation... Why don't we boycott FedEx? Pick UPS or some other delivery service instead!
Logic is the beginning of reason, not the end of it.
They put out these stupid phone directories. No one wanted them. They were the biggest waste of money, and they ended up sitting outside on huge stacks for people to grab. One night, we took a whole bunch of them, added some duct tape, and we had a couch for our dorm room. The only problem was that the covers were glossy and we would also slide off the couch.
Fedex just earned itself a lifetime of wrath (probably no lost business though) from Slashdotters by invoking the four-letter word.
The four letter word aside, is he legally allowed to use their logo in that manner?
IANAL but after looking at the website it strikes me that on this scale the effort and pictures can almost be considered artistic. this guy did some very creative stuff with those boxes and I'm pretty impressed with the results. It seems pretty draconian even for DMCA to stifle this kind of work.
Weird... very weird
Mirror.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
Aren't there laws about making absolutely unreasonable legal threats towards someone? ...
This is wayyy over the line!
Well, guess I won't be shipping any packages with FedEx any time soon. Knowing that "that could be me" is enough for me to boycott the company and encourage others to do so as well...
Just because some lawyer writes you a letter doesn't mean you have to do anything asked. If that were the case, there would be pure anarchy.
A judgement, which generally comes after a hearing, is another matter.
There's no way they'd win any claim of damages, period. They might be able to persuade a network provider to remove a site, but that's only because the customer usually has signed a contract with the provider that waives any right to damages resulting from a site being taken down, not because lawyers get to make law merely by writing letters to people.
If he's violating copyright and trademark law, then why can't Ford sue me for driving a Ford with Ford trademarks all over it? If I put a picture of my Ford on the the web, can they take down my site?
Precisely how is this different?
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Here's the real deal. FedEx doesn't want to be providing thousands to millions of boxes to people who won't be paying to use them to ship items via FedEx.
The lawsuit is probably not expected to succeed, but to pressure the web site owner into closing up shop. If he doesn't have the cash for proper furniture, then he won't have the cash for lawyers.
For FedEx, "winning" consists of getting the site of the Internet. The legal battle is a means to an end.
Of course the result of all this is I'll be pressuring our shipping department to use UPS instead.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
Is the server made out of fedex boxes.
Wired is running an article about a guy with no money making furniture out of FedEx boxes. If that weren't strange enough, FedEx is going after him, legally citing the DMCA. Yes, the DMCA.
Its common for homeless people or people without money to commit stupid crimes in order to get locked up for a while in order to get a free place to stay and food. This guy must have been clever to be able to first get temporary free furniture and then a temporary free place to stay and free food.
Very clever.
...and, erm, send him on his way.
I don't know if anybody has said it before but with all that it's empowered various companies to do the DMCA is clearly the:
worst...technology-law...ever....
My favorite part of the site, the footer:
/dev/null. By emailing us any questions or comments you give fedexfurniture.com the right to post any such message, and or replies on our site.
If any shipping corporations have problems with our site please feel free to forward requests to
How many roads must a man walk down? 42.
Here are the pics
l ?tw=wn_tophead_2
http://wired.com/news/culture/0,1284,68492,00.htm
Because this is America, the land of the free to sue anyone for any damn thing you want and home of the bravely take the DMCA as far as it can possibly go...
The NSA: The only part of the US government that actually listens.
You have to love their claim that his building furniture with fedex boexes violates the terms of use at fedex.com.
"fedex.com is provided solely for the use of current and potential FedEx customers to interact with FedEx and may not be used by any other person or entity, or for any other purpose."
Fedex gave him warning, then posted a link to his site in a ./ article.
When I was in college my roommate and I made a couch out of cases of empty (beer) returnables. Can I sue somebody to get free beer?
I tell ya, we are rapidly approaching a time when anyone with money and power can attack anyone else, for any reason, under the guise of some byzantine law that no one understands, or agrees with, even the people who passed it.
In many countries like Brazil, it's completely impossible to run a business and abide by the labyrinthe of complicated and conflicting laws. Is this the kind of country we want in the U.S.?
Now, it's possible that FedEx has a case that this guy is abusing their trademark with the appropriately colored "Fed Ex" text on his site, but I can't see how he is harming them and the fact that they would... and could... cite the DMCA is just frightening. Is there no sense of perspective among these huge companies? All the guy is saying is that they make good boxes, but now they will generate not a small amount of bad will.
Now if the guy was selling the furniture, I also think they'd have a case. As it is, maybe he'll have to spray paint or otherwise obscure the company's logo. I thought these guys paid big bucks to plaster their names on anything they could like billboards, TV commercials, stadiums, people's foreheads...
I guess Mattel missed out by not using the DMCA when they pounded the crap out of that harmless little Barbie site several years ago. I guess the lawyers need someone to beat up or they start getting cranky.
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Probably cheaper & safer than hiring "Luigi's take your stuff and jack up our rates while we hold your stuff for ransom movers".
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
The universal foolproof 2-step legal attack: 1. Yell 'DMCA! DMCA! DMCA!' at the person you want to stop doing whatever it is they're doing. 2. Profit!
Since a cardboard box isn't Digital, and he's not Copying anything, how is DMCA applicable?
Illegal use of their trademark maybe, since he's got a web-page up (allegedly, the site seems slashdotted) showing their boxes with their logo on it.
But he didn't do anything to circumvent anything resembling a copy-protection mechanism or otherwise infringe on the copyrights of FedEx.
How in heck could the DMCA even be applicable here?
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Even if they got copyright protection for their boxes somehow, his use of their product falls under "fair use": it's a different purpose than they used for their work, like making mobiles out of AOL CDs.
He should countersue for tortious interference or something.
sigs, as if you care.
Andy Warhol would be in a lot of trouble.
W
-------------------
This is my SIG. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
He can afford to spend money on a laptop and orange hair dye but not necessities. Misplaced priorities? More likely a publicity stunt.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
While it seems they MIGHT have a trademark dispute against him (since he is using their trademark in a fashion for which they do not wish to be associated), can somebody explain in what universe something that is supposed to govern encrypted digital copyrighted works is applicable to this situation? The only digital copyrighted material involved here is the guy's website, and as the author, _he_ has the copyright on the relevant digital works, not Fedex.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
He can't catch a break.
Human nature is the same everywhere; the modes only are different. -- Earl of Chesterfield
I remembered them going after a coffee shop dba Federal Espresso in my home town a while back... found this:
_ 98-9430.shtml
. html
http://www.lexnotes.com/sources/subs/cases/2ndCir
I believe they had to change their name, but funnily enough someone in San Fran is running a Federal Espresso now:
http://www.usrg.com/drg3/san_francisco/r/39/r3913
Maybe someone should warn them...
-- "the revolution will not be televised" -Gil Scott-Heron
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Shipping supplies from the USPS state very clearly that they're the property of the USPS. The first time you order a shipment of boxes from the USPS, they make you sign something saying that you acknowledge this fact and that those supplies are indeed only for the purpose of sending stuff by means of USPS.
I had thought Fedex and UPS did the same, but I just examined a couple Fedex medium boxes we had laying around here and they don't say anything of the sort.
What would have happened if he had used Windows instead of boxes?
Victory shall be mine!
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm pretty conflicted about this.
...
On the one hand I'd hate to see this guy's right to publish his ideas on the internet get quashed.
But on the other, I'd hate to see FedEx get taken advantage of for providing a very useful service.
I don't know who to root for.
Technology, the cause of and solution to all of life's problems.
I doubt FedEx really cares about the suit; they just wanted to do something crazy enough to pop up on the /. radar so we'd all go over and melt down his server.
:-/
We've been duped!!
"Creativity is allowing ones self to make mistakes. Art is knowing which ones to keep" - Scott Adams
Hmm..
:)
1) Someone puts up a website that irritates your corporation
2) File a frivolous lawsuit against the website
3) Wait until Slashdot picks up the resulting story
4) Watch the site go down in flames due to the subsequent slashdotting.
5) Objective achived, site is offline!
Slashdot - greater threat to free speech than the DMCA?
expecting him to not have own computer is just stupid.
sum.zero
It just goes to show the level of interest / level of readership both sites have. I saw this on Wired earlier, clicked the link and had a butchers, saw lots of nice photos of furniture made from cardboard and then got back to doing some proper work. Then this appears in my RSS reader and I go back to have another chortle and the damn thing is unreachable. Slashdot and aa419.org should team up and become the worlds largest manual instigated DDOS system
Did you hear about that time in the 90s when Jeff Bezos totally killed a man and UPS'd his dead body to a library in Tijuana? Apparently somebody caught the whole thing on one of Amazon's digital cameras and a few years later the shit was about to come down. That's when Bezos got congress to write provisions in the DMCA, barring the use of copyrighted digital images as courtroom evidence. After that the criminal case was dismissed for lack of evidence and the Tijuana public library was forced to settle for only 12 million pesos.
CSC Brands, the owner of the Campbell's soup trademark is suing the estate of Andy Warhol for copyright violation.
FedEx boxes are one of few supplies in an office that no one tracks so am I the only one thinking "I really need a couch in the cubicle?" Guess I can make a pillow from a trash can liner and packing peanuts.
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity but they've always worked for me" - HST
I'm quite certain UPS sets their fees based on what they believe consumers are willing to pay, not based on how many cardboard boxes they had to give away.
This is a funny story, but really a non-story that will fade quickly. In all likelihood, if this guy had simply ignored the letter, he would not have heard from FedEx again. Companies like FedEx shotgun out this type of stuff and simply wait to see what floats to the top, like chumming the waters. Non-issue, non-story. Move along.
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
this just makes me go HUH!?
I mean, what kind of demented, bored, halfwit lawyer decides it would be a good idea to SUE a guy making FURNATURE out of PACKING MATERIALS?!
I mean, COME ON! Give the guy a break!
Hey, that guy is so poor, he obviously needs more problems, so lets slap a lawsuit onto him! Yeah!
Great idea!
Bastards.
Seriously, this should be considered for 3rd world countries; instead of companies throwing out boxes in those countries, they could follow some of these designs and hand out cardboard with instructions on how people could use it as furniture. I'll bet once a frame is built it would be nothing to put some lightweight padding and fabric on it, making it appear as more traditional furn. Plus I like the guys' hair, once I get outta this fortune 500 corpy-corp place I work I want to go that route, save red (Run Lola Run) not pink.
bad_outlook
--
Is this vague enough for you?
The US Postal workers are going to come by and swipe your furniture?
Better yet, get the police to do that... I can just imaging the report they'd file:
Like Roland???
"Who are in control, they are not in control of anything - they don't even control themselves!" - Glen Beck
...I like the way he slipped Tux into the picture, obviously pandering to the /. crowd!
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
And the reason he couldn't actually test his bed with two people on it obvious.... right?
Looks like he made his webserver out of FedEx boxes too!
The response to the letter (warning pdf)here.
Some interesting citings. I like the one about Mattel vs teh guy who made sex poses with barbies and sold them as art.
"If you are going through hell, keep going." - Winston Churchill
The free boxes they send out are intended for customers. Instead of making money, they're subsidizing someone else's furniture needs.
I can understand them being upset about this, and I'm hard pressed to think of an appropriate response. Updating the terms under which they ship people free boxes so this behavior is banned, and then asking the web site owner to add a highly visible notice explaining this would have been far more reasonable, and just as effective.
Now, there will be a whole host of mirror sites. A web site that would have been a fun curiosity has now been made infamous. Many more people will now be directed to this site than would have otherwise seen it.
This is a backfiring legal strategy if I ever saw one.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
IIRC UPS is 2nd biggest donor to the Republican party,
It seems like his server is made of cardboard too!
Open Source Drum Kit, LPLC deve board - mjhdesigns.com
I wonder what wrath this will inflict on the generations of people brought up in the UK on Blue Peter? Will we all start getting sued by 'Sticky backed plastic', 'toilet roll' and 'washing-up bottle' Companies?
FedEx doesn't want to be providing thousands to millions of boxes to people who won't be paying to use them to ship items via FedEx.
Do they want him to stop posting pictures of his work, do they want him to stop calling his site "fedexfurniture"?
The second seems like a pretty reasonable protection of trademark. He should get a domain that doesn't have "fedex" in the name. Pretty easy.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Sir, you've just created a new category of fetish.
OMG secks on teh box!!!!
this story must have been planted by fedex to take his site down...
always mosh clockwise
FedEx doesn't have to worry - slashdot already took his site down for them. I wonder how much we should charge them... 100,000 people clicking away.
1. Have someone (for free) demonstrate that your products are of really high quality and also very cool/hip. 2. Demonstrate (for about six figures paid to your lawyers) that you are a cranky imbecile. 3. ... ?
4. Break Even!
My turnips listen for the soft cry of your love
Wait, let me get this straight...
This guy has no money, yet he's got enough FedEx packages to make furniture, has a website, and a digital camera....
???...
Okay, first off, furniture just ain't that freaking expensive. No, you may not be able to afford an Itallian leather sofa, but you can get a decent cloth loveseat from IKEA or Target for like $100. Chairs and tables are butt cheap. Furthermore, you can find much cheaper furniture from yard sales and such. WTF do you think college kids do? Do you think they have $1000 sofas in their dorms? Hell no. So honestly, get a freaking life and a clue. He probably spent at least 3 chairs and a table's worth of money on tape!
Second, if this guy made the furniture so that the FedEx logo shows, and published the pics to a website, FedEx has every right to go after him (by all legal means).
We run an e-tail business, and as our products come from our distributors in BIG boxes, and go out to customers usually in little boxes --actually padded envelopes for the majority, it's only the inbetweenies that cause probloems -- having a ready stock of boxes of the right size is a constant problem -- you don't want too big a box, or the mdse rattles around, and you're paying to ship the darn heavier box and packing materials.
So we were tempted to, on rare occasions, use the Priority Mail boxes, turned inside out. USPS prints their logos all over the 'useless' inside to prevent just this abuse.
Of course, Viking and other office supply places sell kraft-paper-brown spray paint, ostensibly to hide old shipping labels. Never gone to those lengths, though.
Design for Use, not Construction!
and will use UPS boxes for my furniture in compliance with the FedEx DCMA rights they have expressed.
[sound of millions of lost customers going down drain over some frickin boxes and an overzealous team of lawyer bots]
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
According to a letter sent by Fedex layers to Ms Granick, from the Cyberlaw clinic Fedex claims copyright infringement because, I quote:
* "Fedex owns the copyright of its packaging"
ergo:
* "Fedex has the exclusive right [...] to create derivative works, to distribute copies to the public by sale [...] rental, lease, or lending and to publicly display its copyrighted works".
* "By posting photographs of works derived from Fedex packaging materials [...] Mr Avila is inducing, causing or materially contributing to the infringement conduct of others, and could be held liable as a contributory infringement".
There are other issues, but not related to copyright (trademark, unlawful access to the packaging materials).
I believe the fedex lawyer has a very weak argument: that the copyright of the design on the box extends to the box as a physical object. This is non-sense. If this was the case, any built product that uses material that has a copyrighted logo printed on it will become a "derivative work". That will mean that we will require a "license" from the material supplier to be able to use it. Non sense
"There is no such thing as bad publicity."
- marketing aphorism
Can we get a "-1 Wrong" moderation option?
Consider that he reversed the object to the original components, heavy duty cardboard. Then used it for a purpose not specifically stated in the Licensing agreement (sitting on it).
Well if the MPAA ever had a case, FedEx probably does too.. that's not to say the MPAA had a case though no matter what the courts said.
They could have turned this into an excellent series of comercials.
Better than GEICO, VW, you name it.
CLOSE SHOT of RED HAIRED DUDE
CAMERA PULLS BACK revelaing a room with everything made out of FEDEX BOXES. CAMERA PULLS BACK MORE revealing a FEDEX HOUSE...
oh well, you get the point
-- www.globaltics.net
Political discussion for a new world
Shut down his site. Smooth move.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
As always, my fellow technologist are not connecting with the realities at hand. Do you think Fed-Ex actually produces all those boxes so you can make furniture? Do you thing Fed-Ex gives two shits that he has TWO apartment rents to pay? Who's fault is that? Plus there are plenty of places to go to get discounted or free furniture (Ever see the 30 Days episode with Morgan Spurlock?). Glad I know what this kid looks like so if he ever applies for development job, we can cross him off the list and save the office supplies from being pillaged. Boys and Girls, it's theft. Taking someone else's property and doing something not intended is indeed theft. Remind me never have any of you over for dinner. Who knows what twisted way you will justify stealing whatever I have.
it says very clearly that he has a good job as a software developer. he has no money because he just moved cities and is currently paying two rents each month [old and new].
sum.zero
I can see why they're terrified -- this guy is bumpin' and grindin' on his FedEx box bed (or something similarly violent in motion but with just his hand) and it breaks. He (and his hand and/or sexual partner -- if they're not one and the same) get cut/injured/etc.
So -- FedEx sees this guy as possibly using their product in a dangerous manner. They're just trying to stem the tide of a class action lawsuit where every moron who stupidly cuts him or herself on a FedEx box comes after FedEx.
On a side note -- I thought IKEA was the shittiest furniture you could barely pay for, but this takes the cake, and it's free.
IronChefMorimoto
How long before Ford can sue me because their car appears in a picture I've used to promote my kid's carwashing business?
I sure wish we had courts that would have told FedEx from the beginning that unless he is promoting a non-existent business association with you to his benefit, or your determent -- GO AWAY. YOU HAVEN'T GOT A CASE!
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
A buddy of mine went hiking in Rocky Mountain Nat'l Park in Colorado and had to pack *everything* out...even human waste. Being without a job and money to buy the right stuff from his local backpacking outlet, he took along a half dozen FedEx mylar envelopes for taking his obligatory daily dump. They worked great, didn't leak and could be resealed, and easily packed out. Wonder how FedEx would like to be associated with THAT!?! Furniture seems pretty benign.
FedEx is in the wrong for misusing a piece of legislation that was ill-conceibed to begin with. But the website owner is in the wrong for abusing the resources of that company.
Companies don't make these materials available with the intent of subsidizing the commons; there's an expectation, an honor system if you will, that you'll ask for materials you'll legitimately use with their service. When people abuse the honor system sufficiently, (this is sometimes called stealing) companies will have to lock down or remove easy access entirely. Imagine in the future, wanting to send something through a shipper, and being asked to pack it in the the shipper's office, because they don't let empty boxes out of the office due to abuse. Or perhaps they will require a deposit on the boxes. You can tell they're already close to this point, because they've already got tracking via account of boxes they send "serious" customers. Either eventuality stifles legitimate business, and it's the freeloaders' fault.
Kind 1 are those who cal roll with the punches and
l
...
Kind 2, have a knack for making the worst out of any situation.
Examples
Kind 1
May 13, 2005, 16 current and former law enforcement officers and U.S. soldiers who had accepted more than $222,000 in bribes to help move drugs past checkpoints
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,156471,00.htm
All apparently arrested without incident.
Fed-ex is now in league with the guy last month in Atlanta GA who killed 4 people by exploiting a security flaw in a deputy's pistol holster security containment system.
At most, he would have done 10 to 180 days on the pending Marijuana charge but he traded the multi day vacation for a death sentence.
Fed-Ex traded good pr for bad pr.
--
What do you call 10,000 lawyers at
Just because some lawyer writes you a letter doesn't mean you have to do anything asked. If that were the case, there would be pure anarchy.
Besides, I have a patent on using cardboard boxes as a business process to make furniture, and it's clear that FedEx is in violation of my business process patent.
I demand they start using tin foil for their boxes, as my patent clearly does not include the use of tin foil and other non-cardboard containing shipping materials that may or may not be used in the construction of furniture.
Party hats are expressly forbidden, however, as a separate patent that I have is for the use of commonly available materials used in shipping to make hats and footwear - so anyone making a tin foil hat is in clear violation of my patent rights and owes me 2 cents per party hat.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
The owner of the site fedexfurniture.com woke up the next morning only to find himself in Albania
"Avila clearly intended to operate a business from his website because he used the .com domain suffix, the "commercial level domain," rather than .net.' You just can't make this stuff up."
.com TLD was exclusively used for U.S. commercial businesses. How many people do you know with theirownname.com who just operate a blog or family connection site? .com receives such a heavy marketing push, it's the first thing that occurs to most web-newb's who want to register a domain name, no matter what their objective.
It's been a LONG time since the
So I think there's also grounds for argument here on just how "clear" it is that the guy intends on capitalizing on the FedEx trademark with a commercial venture.
Shipping supplies from the USPS state very clearly that they're the property of the USPS. The first time you order a shipment of boxes from the USPS, they make you sign something saying that you acknowledge this fact and that those supplies are indeed only for the purpose of sending stuff by means of USPS.
... that's a clear violation of my patent on the business process of dumpster diving for useable objects.
I had thought Fedex and UPS did the same, but I just examined a couple Fedex medium boxes we had laying around here and they don't say anything of the sort.
So, if they're in the trash disposal, they're USPS or FedEx property?
I don't think so
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Okay, that's it, I'm going to create a computer case out of fed-ex boxes and post it on my web site!
Attention UPS: You've got the marketing opportunity of the year knocking at your door. All you have to do is open it and not be an @$$hole about this kid using your shipping boxes. Heck, this kid should have had his own art exhibit by now.
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I mean come on, how does this NOT testify to the quality (and therefore, the durability) of the packing materials?
How else can you demonstrate how well your package will survive the shipping process, than showing how someone can actuallly use those same packaging materials for furniture?
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
Well... since his use of a .com means he was obviously intending to sell something... I hope I don't get accused of prostitution with my dot-com address...
a BIG WTF
.. even after reading it.. how does fedx - DCMA - furniture fit into a meaningful train of though
i am lost
wait - ahh - shipping digital furniture - so they are sueing becuse of the pic's wait that still doesn't make sence..
someone remove my brain i think i just forked a few nervs
'...if only "Jumping to a Conclusion" was an event in the Olympics.'
"abuse" implies the DMCA wasn't created for this purpose.
But you can bet it was designed for exactly this purpose, and more. That's why it's so frequently used to beat into submission anyone who is hosting a website that a corporation might find embarassing or offensive.
Clearly FedEx shipping co. only has 'FedEx' and the 'FedEx' logo trademarked as it applies to shipping containers, and within the realm of package delivery. As we can clearly see, Jose is using the term FedEx (displayed prominently on his work), in reference to a Furniture line, which FedEx shipping co. has no trademark rights within. I move for dismissal :)
They should have used DRM!
I see FedEx rushing to patent DRM-encumbered boxes that allow themselves to be used for package shipping only and self-destruct when used to build furniture.
Expect boxes to report potential terrorists to gov't in the nearest future.
Rediculous is ridiculous!
They could have turned this into a great commerial. Some guy that only orders stuff from companies that ship with fedex so he can get the boxes to make furniture or something to that effect. Now they are looking like some company who just want to pick on the little guy.
Get Movie Posters
Your Ford comparison makes no reference to the fact that every person who attempts to produce their own FedEx furniture will be costing FedEx a few hundred dollars.
The boxes themselves aren't free. FedEx pays for them.
Shipping the boxes to the furniture maker isn't free. FedEx delivers them. Yes, it's not terribly expensive for FedEx, as they are already paying for tie delivery person, and the boxes are probably purchased at nice bulk discounts, but the fact remains that FedEx stands to lose a lot of cash in all of this.
Their methods of handling this are reprehensible. I won't argue that.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
I'd give him our boxes, ask him to build furniture out of those, host his website and assign him a lawyer.
I think the goodwill I'd get would be worth many times the cost I'd incur.
I don't want to read
"Avila clearly intended to operate a business from his website because he used the .com domain suffix, the "commercial level domain," rather than .net.'"
Wouldn't the ".net" domain indicate that he planned to start an internet service provider?
He's not an ISP, and he's not a school, and he's not an organisation, and he's not the government, and he's not a country. ".com" it is then...
I guess that makes slashdot.org a "non-profit" organization...
You know, filing a DMCA claim on an obviously trademark issues seems either grossly incompetent or, more likely, a frivilous claim. In the latter case, it would be an ethics violation for sure. Lawyers are under a duty to report violations of fellow attorneys, so I hope someone reports this if there is any violation.
On another front, I've been in court with FedEx. Hate them now. They lost a package of mine and refused to reimburse me so I had to sue. Then they had the gall to tell me that I had complained to the wrong company or it would have been handled right away. Something about FedEx having 4 companies. I had called the claim number on my paperwork - so how did I get the "wrong" company?
(Hates it that they own Kinko's now, since I have to use Kinko's occasionally.)
...they are absolutely right on one thing. .com is for commercial entities. If you aren't commercial, you should be denied .com. If you aren't a non-profit, you should be denied .org. If you aren't an ISP or other infrastructure provider, you should be denied a .net.
.com because that's what people remember the most.
That's the way it once was, and that's the way it should be. The way it is now, there's no difference except that people prefer
Bring sanity back to DNS.
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
I admire the idea and would likely do it myself. I have no problem with it. The only problem I have is when somebody defends something or someone with the "it's legal, so it is okay" argument.
Heck, I just started buying a large coffee cup full of half and half at the corner gas station the other day because I figured out it was cheaper than buying a container of half and half. That's pretty much along the same lines, and somebody could fault me the same way: "Gee, thanks... now coffee prices are going to go up". But I won't use the "hey, it's legal!" defense. I'll just say "hey, it's a nifty idea".
If they *do* ask me to stop, I will stop. I most certainly won't stand in the station and moan and bitch at them that it's legal because there aren't any signs telling me not to and that it's my "right" to do it. I most certainly won't shoot back with "it's a free country".
My objection is that the phrase "it's a free country" or "it's legal" is too often used in a kneejerk fashion to justify either impolite behavior or an unwillingness to accede to a polite request.
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
I saw this quite a while ago on treehugger.com check out http://www.treehugger.com/files/2005/06/fedex_furn iture.php
This guy did not "take new" fedex boxes from fedex. He used previously discarded boxes. On other-words ultra-minimal impact on the environment.
For more info: http://freegan.info/
16"x12"x12" "small" (book) boxes are only $25.50 for a 15-pack ($1.70 apiece), which admittedly isn't as cheap as places like U-Line, but I've gotten three moves out of some of mine. :-)
Mainframe/UNIX Bit Twiddler and long time Windows/Linux Hobbyist.
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.
Don't they cost the same as .net anyway? Surely it is better to use .com for any site if you can as it is most commonly used so people are more likely to remember it!
Written on the blog, dated July 22nd.
"Over two weeks ago, FedEx improperly used the DMCA notice and take-down provisions to get the website at www.fedexfurniture.com taken offline. The company claimed trademark infringement and conversion, neither of which allow it to take advantage of the powerful remedy provided under the DMCA."... http://cyberlaw.stanford.edu/
Hmmm ... I'm guessing that FedEx mostly has a problem with his domain "fedexfurniture.com".
If they get pushy (such as threatening to sue) I'd offer to change the domain name to something like "shippingboxfurniture" and otherwise tell them to go piss up a rope.
Happy Fun Ball is for external use only.
But I don't care what agreement the shipper & shipping company may have, if its a box that's shipped to me, I consider it my property.
Because if they do think they still own the box after the delivery has been made, they'd better get over here and pick them up or I'm sending them the bill for expenses and labor used to properly dispose of their boxes.
Note I am talking about boxes that have been used for shipping something, not empty boxes the shipping company may have provided with the understanding that they be used in doing business with them. Its not entirely clear to me how he got his boxes.
I used to work for a printing firm. They would get developer chemicals in jugs, much like windshield washer fluid jugs. The jugs came in cardboard boxes. The cardboard was double thick, and the boxes had handle cutouts. Beautiful for moving.
"I'm not impatient. I just hate waiting." - My Dad
I can't find it but I read about this on Slashdot a LONG LONG time ago (i.e. months ago). I wish I could find the article to prove it (I'm being serious by the way).
How in heck could the DMCA even be applicable here?
The standard notice-and-takedown procedure that limits a web host's liability was enacted as a rider to the DMCA.
Actualy, he says he ordered 300 boxes, because he ships frequently. And that his furniture was built from those boxes, and that if he needed a box for shipping he would take one out of his furniture to do it.
-Jason
I wonder what the ladies think of his bed :)
Heck, I just started buying a large coffee cup full of half and half at the corner gas station the other day because I figured out it was cheaper than buying a container of half and half.
I don't have a problem with that from a moral standpoint -- I figure we all have our little moral justifications that we use to save us a buck here and there at the expense of The Man. It all works out in the end. But from a time standpoint, I don't get it. How much is your time worth? How much time does that trip to the corner store take you that would've otherwise been saved had you just picked up the quart of half and half when you picked up the gallon of milk at the grocery store? And if you feel just the slightest twinge of guilt upon "cheating" the corner store out of $.60 worth of half and half, what is that worth to you?
From a financial standpoint it doesn't make sense.
It's kinda like the 3 hours I spent driving around town the other day looking for a single 7mm nut. $.23 plus tax, but 3 hours of my time plus gas.
Synergy is your friend
Yep, .com actually means 'common', not commercial. If you wanted a company address, you'd use .co.us instead. (just like all other outside-the-usa companies do, eg. .co.uk for a uk company.)
.com means a USA company because everyone uses it for that.
Its just that people *think*
Next time, try Budget Truck Rental. Their trucks are far nicer than U-Hauls. They try to keep the trucks in their fleet no older than 4 years.
I'm looking to move to Montana in a few months, from the Los Angeles area. The one way truck rental from U-Haul was over $5,000 for a 24' truck. The slightly larger truck that Budget offers was a little over half that price. For under $3,000, I could get it will all the moving supplies I need, and an auto trailer so my wife doesn't have to drive behind me.
Not to mention that the customer service at U-Haul sucks. I've never been in there, and not have to wait nearly an hour for the 2-3 people in front of me to be taken care of before they even start renting me something. When I've rented from Budget in the past, I was completely done, and out of there within half an hour.
they will hit your CC as a test though, but it gets refunded. There are limits to what you can order (they'll cut you off eventually unless you're a big shipper), but they're pretty loose with supplies.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Are you nuts?! If you hire somebody you PAY THEM! If you sue, they PAY YOU!
I'm not even going to bother with the fact that the USPS has been spun off and independent for years, but lets go right to the federal offense part. I'm not quite sure what you think you mean by "offense", but if you mean federal crime, that is dead wrong. Congress passes the laws that spell out federal crimes, some low level clerk writing stuff on boxes does not define laws. Maybe there is such an insane law, but without actual reference to it I'll assume there is not and live without fear of discarding a USPS shipping envelope unused.
I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
"Reminds me of the skits on RedGreen show where he made furniture from milk crates."
Milk crates are some of the sturdiest containers you could ask for. They are virtually indestructible, a convenient size, they stand up to the sun, and they are not damaged by water. The only problem with them, is you can't buy them! Similarly sized containers that are sold in stores are nowhere near as rugged as milk crates.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Oh absolutely. If they're used boxes, I'm pretty sure they're considered fair game. At least a reasonable person would think so.
Then, after bandwidth fees, he will have negative money.
I don't know about you guys but I don't think the website is showing any signs of being Slashdotted. It's fast and zippy even after over 300 comments - must be heck of a server.
Well thanks to the Slashdot community, we've effectively destroyed FedEx's evidence!
"you sonofabitch i didn't know!"
I like Tepples's answer. Also they seem to have mentioned the terms of use of the Fed Ex website. Maybe since he ordered boxes through the website, they are saying he violated the terms of use since they weren't for shipping.
So much for the other half of my sandwich.
Gosh forbid he falls asleep smoking.
- IP
I'd pay this guy to replace all his furniture with UPS boxes and come out looking like a hero!
Oh yeah, I should go into PR!
Let me see... He has no money, but he apparently has enough for an internet connection, a domain name registration, and some shoddy hosting service.
At one time in college my furniture consisted of:
A folding table I bought at Wal-Mart for $25
A folding chair I bought at Wal-Mart for $10
(That served as my kitchen table, and my computer table)
For a bed, I had an old army cot that I got for free, and a sleeping bag.
So yeah, I'm really buying the whole story of using FedEx boxes cause he had no money.
More likely he did it because he thought it was cute. Like how we used to make chairs out of cases of empty beer bottles.
Whatever, he would not have had a problem if he simply talked about it on a blog, and posted a few pictures. But instead he went out and registered 'fedexfurniture.com' and is amazed that FedEx has a problem with that.
So this guy is engaged in a commercial enterprise because he's using a
I went to fedex.org and up came the fedex website! Clearly fedex is not a commercial operation. I'm waiting to hear back from them on how to get my free or reduced-price shipping. By interacting with fedex.org I shouldn't have to pay the same price those crooks at fedex.com charge.
It's gonna be a bitch to put a EULA on each toothpick.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
Think if he built a server out of FedEx boxes it could withstand the /. crowd?
and it has an EULA that they claim he violated.
The article fails to make this clear, and I didn't see anything about it on his site before it went down.
The DMCA is being invoked solely because of his use of FedEx.com to order boxes that he didn't intend to use for shipping.
If FedEx wants to start bitching about the way people use a TLD to denote whether or not they're a commercial entity, check out http://www.orangebowl.org/. If the Orange Bowl is a non-commercial event somebody should probably get back those "gift" SUVs the colleges are giving out to their star ball-players.
I think the United States government should sue them for the use of federal in their name. They are not a governmental entity, yet their name implies they are one moreso that the United States Postal Service's moniker Priority Mail. I think their name is a misleading statement and violation of the DMCA.
I would offer to help him and send him all of the packaging materials he needs..... You couldn't buy that kind of advertising.
New UPS Commercial: "What can Brown do for you? Help you stick it to FedEx and furnish your apartment...."
Who is the master of foxhounds, and who says the hunt has begun? -Pink Floyd
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The ethics of creating a parody work of art that pretty clearly digs some ground about consumer culture and disposability are not exactly one-sided slam dunks for the "thou shalt not" morality you're peddling. I understand: in terms of a Kantian categorical imperative, we couldn't argue that everyone should take advantage of the free boxes to do this. On the other hand, we could argue that everyone could exercise the kind of independent thought and artistic impulse this person did.
As far as the inflated prices of business for everyone else: c'mon, FedEx has a business model that counts on massive waste of the free boxes. If that really added anything of consequence to their bottom line, that wouldn't be their M.O., would it? Isn't this sort of a parable about an individual response to market dynamics that, when they trickle down to the individual level, can't be perceived as anything but deeply irrational? (And isn't the lawsuit about the irrational corporate response to that?)
As far as your "friendly" quality goes, hey, I suggest you read your post again. Tell me who's talking (quite gratuitously, in a sort of 'public' setting) about colonectomies. "Piss poor example of humanity"? Does this seem like an incredibly harsh and self-righteous response from someone who's instructing me about friendliness?
Rest awhile by the tum tum tree in thought, is my advice...
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
FedEx is clearly a not for profit organization because they have fedex.org!
/cry about it.
Hey, FedEx,
Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
Can't make a raft out of 'em, either, I'll bet.
MjM
XKCD:Xeric Knowledge Comically Dispen
They were obviously shocked by his disgustingly pink hair.
All men aren't pigs... we just smell that way.
Thanks. That at least makes a little sense. Doesn't explain why they're using the DMCA, but does explain why they might have issues with his box use.
The only catch is that the boxes have Priority Mail designs on their exterior. This means that, if you ship those boxes via the Postal Service, you have to pay the Priority Mail rate -- as opposed to cheaper rates like First Class (depending on weight) or Media Mail. However, you can easily evade this design with a few moments' patience and some duct tape: Simply tape up the box so that no design is visible.
Having said all that, I have ordered these boxes specifically to pack items when moving out of an apartment. There isn't any agreement or contract such as the parent describes.
At this point in the play Jack Cade and his followers are proposing to replace the rule of law with the rule of personal whim, a dictatorship.
If you're going to quote it, get the whole idea behind the quote.
Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
Just goes to show you how valuable Duct Tape is ... This should be a strong promotion for both FedEx AND Scotch Tape.
They could---I don't know!---try not sending him any more boxes!!!111eleventyone
Yeah, right.
seems like slashdot is helping fedex take out this guy's online operations... not surprisingly.
I am unique, just like you, and you, and you...
thousand sites that have picturs of FedEx stuff to go: http://tinyurl.com/8lqrw
Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
Now that his site is down, we resort to mirrors
:O
perhaps slashdot could host some of the
mirrors and prevent this from happening?
I hope he doesn't pay by the gb
He's a software developer who makes good money, but recently moved and is temporarily paying two rents.
I have enough trouble furnishing my place with the one mortgage.
Can't you get in big trouble for improperly filing a dmca takedown notice? Its not like what they are claiming is even covered by the dmca, so they can't pretend they didn't know it was harassment.
The more I begin to think that DMCA actually stands for Double Moron Copycat Accelerant. I can just see Bernie Ebbers hawking it over the local Corporate Value Network, "DMCA is for those who don't think their getting enough media attention to set themselves on fire with! Do it today!"
[Now, I'm off to lift my le... Um, visit... at another place.]
While offtopic, it's fun to talk about...
When I worked at Dell in the safety investigation labs, I would often inspect failed PCs via unusual means. Most of the time, it's because of smoke or "pop" sounds from a failed power supply (bad capacitor sounds like a fire cracker). At any rate, about 1/10 of those PCs failed due to ROACHS!!! That's right, roaches are attracted to the ionized air created by the power supply. They often find them steril and clean enough to lay eggs in. By the time we get those PCs, they eggs have already hatched.
Let me tell you something... I ALWAYS open the side case cover very very carefully. You never know when a swarm of 20+ roaches come crawling out the moment they see some light.
Life is not for the lazy.
Is it because he's using FedEx images on his website?
Not that I'm defending FedEx but I wonder if that is the angle they are using.
500 dollar reward for tip(s) leading to the arrest of the person(s) who stole my sig.
It's kinda like the 3 hours I spent driving around town the other day looking for a single 7mm nut.
Replace that bastard with an M6 or an M8 if possible. My problem is finding metric bolts in any length greater than 25mm.
I am becoming gerund, destroyer of verbs.
I used to manage a distribution warehouse, so I was lucky enough to visit the local UPS operation here in town. Each day, we fill a feeder truck with anywhere from 300-500 packages on average. These feeder trucks are then picked up every day and driven back to our local UPS facility. Once the feeder arrives at UPS, the entire trailer is tipped at about a 30 angle and all of the packages on top literally come tumbling out of the truck onto a sort station at the docks.
It is not a delicate process at all. And when a couple hundred of your packages all start toppling over each other, it is very scary indeed. I'd rather them play football with the packages.
fedex.org must be a non-profit as well.
Their taxes must be awfully complicated, running parallel businesses with different regulatory compliances.
I think the days are over when big companies with lots of cash can pretend to be wholly ignorant of things in the computer world, hoping the judge will be too. It's too easy to find expert witnesses that make you look like idiots and/or liars. Time for a policy change, methinks.
You have to wonder about a profession that encourages its practitioners to feign ignorance.
Would you care to cite your sources for that piece of info? Every place I've ever read has said that .com stands for "commercial", although there is no requirement that one have a commercial venture in order to register a .com domain.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
The best way to deal with this is to call UPS (or DHL or whathaveyou) and ask if they want to sponsor a new set of furniture. Then put a big blurb at the top of the site about how FedEx sucks but that DHL was happy to sponsor the project.
I wouldn't be surpriced if UPS would even make commersials with this guy to show hwo good quality their packaging has.
Failing to learn from history dooms you to repeat it.
Since a cardboard box isn't Digital, and he's not Copying anything, how is DMCA applicable?
Learn the English language. Digital is an adjective modifying millenium (what millenium? the digital one).
And copyright doesn't have to have anything to do with copying; misappropriation of a companies logo bearing property can invoke copyright violations.
-everphilski-
oh, they're for sending...when i get around to it.
As for the moral question, I'm still mulling it over. I dislike the concept of "sticking it to The Man", as "The Man" that is thus stuck is usually a guy who took out a loan and/or morgaged his home to buy a franchise. "The Man" is also a dozen part time clerks and delivery guys who work there. I tend to see "screwing over a corporation" as screwing over the nice fellow who gave me directions when I was in his check out lane or the poor guy pushing carts in the parking lot.
I'm guessing that they are still turning a profit with my cup of half and half. It's a big bulk refrigerated unit, so they likely buy it at a cheaper cost than the packaged containers. Probably the best thing to do would be to ask, but I have a feeling that the answer would depend on who happened to be there at the time, and wouldn't necessarily be the same at a later date.
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
Yeah, but about a month ago they stopped offering the free tape because people were abusing it!
What the hell am I going to do about my house now? Hopefully FEDEX doesnt bust my ass... I'll be screwed.
Perhaps if he promises to ship his furniture via FEDEX next time he has to move.
Actually Fed Ex should play this up... Look how STRONG these boxes are, you can make FURNITURE with them.
Now, if I register 'mmmfrenchfries.com' and display pictures of only McDonald's fries, but do not display their logo prominently and do not mention them by name, then McDonald's should have no legal issue with this.
My own opinion is that if this guy just changed his site (and URL for sure) to not reflect the FedEx name, they'd be okay with what he is doing.
I guess I'll have to try out DHL now. I've heard a few good things about them...
The bed can handle his 5-foot-6-inch, 165-pound frame, even when he jumps up and down on it (an experiment he tried in response to an e-mail asking if the bed could support two people).
And the reason he couldn't actually test his bed with two people on it obvious.... right?
Umm... he likes tall girls?
-Valiss
Where did you get that idea from?
...
.net domains:
According to RFC 920 -- Domain Requirements (1984):
"The initial top level domain names are:
COM = Commercial, any commercial related domains meeting the second level requirements..."
According to RFC1591 -- Domain Name System Structure and Delegation (1994) :
"COM - This domain is intended for commercial entities, that is companies..."
Also, regarding
"NET - This domain is intended to hold only the computers of network providers..."
http://www.fedexfurniture.com.nyud.net:8090/
Would if I could. The bolt was part of the horn assembly on my motorcycle. It came loose and was lost due to some kneedragging. Why they chose M7, the world will never know.
Synergy is your friend
FedEx Customer Relations
3875 Airways, Module H3 Department 4634
Memphis, TN 38116
Dear FedEx,
I was greatly disappointed to learn of your lawsuit against Jose Avila for operating a website describing furniture constructed from FedEx shipping boxes. I don't see how his furniture making or website could possibly harm FedEx in any way, and I consider your legal action a case of pointless bullying and a misuse of the DMCA.
Accordingly, I have begun using United Parcel Service for all my non-USPS personal and business shipping needs. I hope to do business with your company in the future, but I will no longer be using any FedEx products or services until the lawsuit against Avila has been dropped.
Have a nice day.
The USPS is what is referred to as semi-private.
They are set up to run like a business where they should at least self-sustain, but they remain in the control of the federal government.
The Federal Reserve has an even more complicated relationship as a "non-profit" bank that has been referred to as semi-private.
Sallie Mae used to be semi-private. I believe one of the big home mortgage lenders used to be a semi-private program too.
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
Well, actually, less than half of those "deposits" are ever returned and the remainder is given back to support this cost.
:-)
But nice try.
Not that I disagree with your point, but i wanted to quibble your example.
Stewey
There are 10 kinds of people in the world. Those who understand binary and those who don't.
But seriously now. The USPS is not independent. You wouldn't call me "independent" from my girlfriend if I required her signature to spend money, would you? It's a government-owned, government-regulated corporate entity. The fact that it's "corporate" doesn't make it "independent" at all!
And it's a federal offense in the same way that many kinds of tamperings with federal affairs are. Destruction of currency, for example. Feel free to assume it's not a federal offense, though. A few discarded envelopes, and we won't have to worry about you posting on Slashdot anymore. Or do they have the Internets in Federal Pound-Me-In-The-Ass Prison now?
Not only must we stop the insidious production of box furniture but we must see that box cutters, packing tape, and rulers are destroyed as well. These are the evil tools these evil doers use to violate our rights.
Then....on to Web Browsers and HTTP Servers! Then to the mother of all violators....Operating Systems. No other tool has caused so much duplication and distribution of our most sacred IP.
We cannot let such things to continue.
Yep, I've got it wrong way round. I'm sure I read a long while ago that originally it was designed for 'everything else', but I must have it confused with the state of the .com domain as it stands today.
And if you feel just the slightest twinge of guilt upon "cheating" the corner store out of $.60 worth of half and half, what is that worth to you?
:) I'm often amused when people think they are "getting ahead" or "getting over on someone" by stealing junk from less than a dollar to 10, 20, or so dollars.
Your integrity.
To me, I'll give up my integrity for no less than a few million dollars
If I'm going to steal something, its going to be worth it.
for a guy with no money he certainly has two or three computers, and what looks to be a pretty nice apartment. Not to mention money for web hosting of a pretty silly topic.
Fedex is likely most pissed because that packing material costs them money, and Mr. Avila has eggregiously helped himself to Fedex's property, which is intended for their customers to use to ship packages.
there are 3 kinds of people:
* those who can count
* those who can't
the only way to deal with these companies, is to blast them with so much bad press they back down. and hopfully fire the moron who thought of this.
If you mod me down, I will become more powerful than you can imagine....
From the article:
A good time to remind us of why RMS insists on having different opinions about the public policy questions raised by disparate laws (including trademark, copyright, and patent law) with different histories and purposes; the alternative he rejects is lumping these laws together into "intellectual property".
Digital Citizen
The only problem I have is when somebody defends something or someone with the "it's legal, so it is okay" argument.
Well, hopefully for consistency's sake you also have a problem when people use the "it's illegal, so it's not ok" argument as well. I think that one is at least as retarded, usually much more so.
"Let me tell you something... I ALWAYS open the side case cover very very carefully. You never know when a swarm of 20+ roaches come crawling out the moment they see some light."
Imagine the trauma of people in the old Comp Sci labs where every machine would have 'xhost +' enabled... and some smartass would run 'xroaches' on their display... You think its bad when the roaches come out of the box? How about when every time you move a window on your desktop!?!?!?
Ahhh those were the days
In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
The PDF is a little confusing because it's posted upside down but it's a great read.
I will briefly paraphrase for those too lazy to read this themselves..
Grannick's response is:
1) There isn't a chance in hell someone would confuse the fedexfurniture site for a multinational shipping organization
2) Some guy sold artistic expression of Barbie doing naughty things once
2a) not only did a court find this OK but the company (Mattel) that tried to sue him ended up paying for all his attorneys fees (HINT: Fedex will pay lots of money to Avila if you pursue this)
3) The DMCA reference is Bullshit!
4) He complied with all your websites terms and conditions
5) BTW we put his website on Stanford's servers. Care to sue us both?
In just a page and a half she shredded their case and taunted them to try and sue one of the top legal institutions in the country. But it's all done so subtley.
I have a feeling a NEW terms and conditions will get posted to Fedex in the very near future. Just a gut feeling.
.Com - Commertal .Net - Internet related. Maybe an ISP or other BUSINESS related... .Org - A non-proffit... Oh wait Not Fedex related and yadda yadda... wow your not getting a break .tv - Obveously a TV show about the subject. Money. Umm yeah .Biz - Horray it's.. oh right nevermind .Web - Umm kinda like .Net .cc - Generic enough but so is .Com and here they clame it's obveous he has a commertal intent. .cc domains are just companys duping to make sure nobody domain squats. Not exactly a leap of logic to say .cc is the new dot com
...
Most of the
Ummm yeah
I don't actually exist.
Wow! When the box is full, where do you ship the stuff?
Please send all packages to:
G.W.B.
1600 Pennsylvania Avenue, NW
Washington, DC 20500
*ahem*
-Valiss
This is just wrong. Why on earth did people mod it up? I guess that's Slashdot for you.
RFC 920, back in 1984, says that "COM = Commercial, any commercial related domains meeting the second level requirements."
Proof:
fedex.org
Sanity from whom?
-Valiss
In this case, the lawyers seem a bit dim about IP law, and not just the DMCA. The parody bit about "social or other commentary regarding FedEx" is particularly dumb. Parody makes fun of a copyright holder or how they write, speak or sing. As much as I might hope otherwise, it has nothing to do with social commentary and you can parody out of sheer nastiness if you want. Besides, you can't copyright "FedEx," you can only trademark it. Anyone is perfectly free to write a novel filled with references to FedEx without violating any FedEx "copyright." And copyright only deals with publications, you don't "publish" a chair.
There should be a court-sanctioned fast track to award damages in situations such as this. Those getting these dreadfully inaccurate threatening letters could go to court and quickly not only get compensated for any legal fees they have to pay to find out what this FedEx lawyer is saying is gibberish, but get a hefty damage award to discourage lawyers from making such outlandish claims. And I mean big money, big as in six figure and above settlements. Big as in getting fixed for life for one out-of-bounds cease and desist letter.
We need to bind up lawyers as tightly as lawyers have bound up everyone else. The law need not care how nastily and dishonestly lawyers treat one another, but their letters to non-lawyers should have to be as carefully worded as SEC filings. They shouldn't be able to make any claim that's not going to stand up in any court in the land. They should have to tell those they'd like to threaten all sorts of reasons why they, as lawyers, may be wrong in what they're claiming. They should have to state that if we win, all our legal fees may be paid by them and we may even be awarded damages. In short, any lawyer dealing with a non-lawyer who is not his client should have to be very, very, very, very nice.
That, after all, is what surgeons have to do. They have to tell you all sorts of reasons why you might not want to get the surgery. Ditto drug companies. Ditto cops making an arrest. Ditto everyone right now but lawyers. That's not "equal justice under law."
The law should be the same for lawyers as it is for everyone else. Of course, tell that to some lawyers and they will go ballistic. I mentioned this to one lawyer and within seconds he was red-faced and almost screaming. The bad sort of lawyers don't like this. No my precious, they don't like it at all. It takes away the One Ring they use to rule over non-lawyers. Take away their ability to lie and threaten and where would they be? Poor smucks with nothing to do.
--Mike Perry, Seattle Untangling Tolkien
P.S. By the way, I was in a copyright dispute over the book above. I hung in there and saw every claim the opposing lawyers made in their cease and desist letter demolished. In the end, facing a strong possibility of losing at summary judgment, they became quite polite, particularly after the judge dismissed their lawsuit with prejudice. But my book was delayed for a year and a half by their threats and for that I got not a penny. The lawyers, however, got quite rich off the Tolkien family.
Pretty cool stuff though. Looks like fun to build.
I don't think you can have a license agreement on a box. Seeing as how you're not getting a license to use the box, you're getting the actual box. Not the idea of a box, the fucking box.
If there's a goddamned license agreement on the box, what's next? You're being granted a license to posess that milkshake cup from Burger King? Come on, that's total bullshit.
Not a Twitter sockpuppet... but I wish I was.
And I've never had to resort to building furniture out of boxes. I've never bought a new piece of furniture in my life, other then a matress. People are always wanting to give away furniture. Hell I picked up my coffee table on the side of the road.
You see people making movies about Converse shoes, people rapping about Surge soda, and doing all sorts of silly and creative things with their favorite products and the marketing department spins them up into revenue. In this case, yes, he got a bunch of boxes without paying for them and used them for an unintended purpose. Still, how much is this worth to their marketing department?? A hell of a lot more than they're going to get out of that guy if they sue him, I'll tell you that much. They should've had the marketing department spin it up, make a commercial about it, maybe even a whole ad campaign, and then they would've made a bunch of money without having to pay crazy costs to ad agencies to come up with some stupid idea like those Taco Bell commercials. It's free publicity, and the fact that they handed it off to the legal department is making it all bad publicity instead of good. Very bad choice on their part.
Where is the '+1 Disturbing' moderation?...
My laptop looks different now.
Oh absolutely. If they're used boxes, I'm pretty sure they're considered fair game. At least a reasonable person would think so.
I would think so too, but it turns out, UPS isn't reasonable. I tried to ship a package UPS ground in an obviously used, UPS 2nd day box. The refused to take it. They said I had to send it 2nd day. I took it to Fedex. They shipped it without questions and for less money than UPS would have.
I think I'm going to have FedEx ship me a bunch of boxes so I can make a big FedEx fire in my backyard.
...Profit!
1) Free FexEx boxes
2) arrange said boxes
3) add fire...
4) www.fedexonfire.com
5)
[optikshell.com] My weblog / gathering of neat (read geek) stuff.
This guy can't afford furniture, but he can afford
a lawyer to battle FedEx? Well there
goes the free boxes.
This is interesting, but I think you all should look at CITY magazine's UN_FOLD project, where designers around the world made chairs in a limited time frame--the only condition being that they had to fit into a FED EX BOX. There's a really cool video to accompany the project here: http://www.city-magazine.com/vid_16UNFOLD.html And the CITY magazine site info page on UN_FOLD is at: http://www.city-magazine.com/projects.html enjoy.
see grouse's post
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
If they're afraid of guys like this, why don't they just charge a small fee for the boxes, which is applied to the price of shipping when you use them for the intended purpose?
--
Evan
"$30 for the One True Ring. $10 each additional ring!" -- JRR "Bob" Tolkien
Fedex should simply have terminated Avila's Fedex shipping account if he is violating their terms of use.
Maybe we can make a movie out this and add it as a special feature to a new DVD edition of Castaway, the movie starring Tom Hanks that Fedex participated in because of the positive corporate image it showed.
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
If it's Wired you can.
[Please, no libel suits or flames. I don't have the time or energy.]
he likely has a lease on the previous apartment. if he couldn't/can't find a suitable person to sublet the suite, he is contractually on the hook for the cash. how is that hard to understand?
is it a 'dumbass' move to actually fulfill your commitments? apparently you think it is...
sum.zero
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Who fucking cares, really?
Fuck the DMCA and fuck all the cocksucking politicians bowing to the almighty dollar and fucking this country up in the process.
We need some common sense laws in this country that don't allow for such trivial lawsuits to take place.
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
Well, I hoped for it and I got it :-)
Thanks. You're probably a real nice person to live around.
I know the full story, most of it is on his website or the wired artitcle or the Make article. Some is a little sanatized since there is no reason to reveal everything to the public.
He is a nice guy, does get laid on occassion (I have heard it myself, old roomate), he does have a good job, the reason he moved to AZ but he does pay double rent as he is holding his bargin with the other od the old roomates till the lease is up. But a 90% increase in salary from his just in So Cal vs the one in AZ made it worth it.
If you're concerned about cockroach eggs, maybe try Liquid Detergent display boxes. I get them at my local budget supermarket, the ones where you have to buy your own bags and the empty boxes are at the front of the store for free.