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Apple Cuts Off Linux iPod Users
Will Fisher writes "New iPods will no longer be able to work with Linux. iTunes now writes some kind of hash (SHA1, md5?) to the iPod database which new iPods check against. If this check fails then the iPod reports that it contains 0 songs. This appears to be protection against 3rd party applications writing out their own databases. We haven't found out how to generate our own valid hashes (but we do know the hash includes the database itself, and possibly the iPod serial number), and are looking for help."
...installing linux on the new iPod is out of the question?
I've heard this is the best way to make a good hash.
"I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
They should talk to the GAIM^WPidgin developers. I've heard that they have a wee bit of experience in reverse-engineering hashes transmitted over a network.
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My old 5 gb iPod just jumped in value.
Not that I'd sell it.
I thought Apple had embraced open source
46. The Hobo smiles, his eyes glaze over, and he burps. "Beware the man who has lived longer than the Wasteland."
Because I expect the Linux community to have one on my desk by Monday. Companies drive me crazy when they do this, I mean punishing someone whose a potential consumer of your product makes so much sense... yeesh. It's not like they're trying to hack the iTunes DRM - they just want to use a legitimate product they've purchased...
TRHOnline - Staggering Towards Brilliance
I heard cannabis brownies were the way to go.
Does this also mean that new iPods will only work with iTunes and not with superior media management apps?
I give the community one month from release to working hack or workaround. Actually, I think that may be too long.
Let's take up a pool for how long Apple's "protection" lasts. Anyone else predict something different?
First, I applaud your determination to uphold the implied freedom to do what one will (within reason, of course) with something that someone owns.
However, if you are in the USA you are running the risk of Apple invoking the DMCA.
I hope they don't. I hope you succeed. I firmly believe from a technical standpoint it can be done. My concern is the legal ramifications.
Anticompetitive? mmmmmm yeah.
Application is using a non-public interface to access functionality... Vendor changes said non-public interface... Community is SHOCKED! WTF?
so .. tell me again why I should buy an ipod? because its the hippest device on earth?
Just use Rockbox then. It's an open-source firmware replacement. Though it may not run on the newest generation of iPods yet... http://rockbox.org/
I just hate iTunes. I know other people like it, but it seems to me that non-tech people find iTunes easy, and tech folks don't. As a tech guy, iTunes drives me insane. It doesn't do what I want, doesn't do things my way, does things I don't expect, etc.
Trying to make gtkpod work, I've borked my 2nd gen iPod nano. Starting from scratch, I could files make show up but not play. I had the brilliant idea and update to the latest firmware, hoping it was an issue with it. Now I can't make anything at all show up unless it's added with iTunes. Coincidence?
There are plenty of good mp3 players that will work beautifully with linux and sources for mp3s other than Apple's Itunes.
good thing rockbox will continue to present a normal mass storage device that's about 300x easier to perform simple file operations with than iTunes.
...iPod Genuine Advantage?
More likely, the expect this response:
"Oh well, my $250 iPod won't work with Linux. Rather than replacing it with another $250 player that will, I'll go and buy a $600, $1200 or $2500 Apple computer that will work with my iPod." (Windows intentionally ignored because a Linux user would never switch to Windows.
I'd like to see some legal type make the case that Apple has a monopoly on portable music players, and that this is an illegally anticompetitive action.
Request your free CD of my piano music.
So how will all the Apple fanboys spin this as a good thing from a good company?
No seriously... not a troll, I'd really like to know here, because you know it's going to happen.
I don't own an iPod or Zune, but in this article, if you replaced every instance of Apple with Microsoft, and iPod with Zune, and iTunes with whatever the Zune uses, people would already be talking about boycotting and suing and how evil the big empire is for this.
Wow. Looks like Apple doesn't want repeat customers. Guess I won't be buying any more iPods in the future.
Linux can't use it? Install Linux on it. Since their protection is embedded in the iPod OS, it should be easily fixed by installing Linux on the iPod itself. Suddenly your iPod can do more, and is not bound to Windows/Mac anymore. And did I mention that it is free?
a) Because sometimes it doesn't make much sense to put in the extra resources to support an at best barely significant portion of the market?
b) Because Apple happens to be a software company, who happens to deal in operating systems?
c) Because they hate Linux and are out to destroy it.
Two of the above are plausible reasons, neither of them are c). Pick.
And here I was looking on the new iPod's just a few hours ago wondering if I had the money to buy one. I was quite tempted, and since older iPod's work fine on linux, the ipod looked like a sweet upgrade to my current player (creative zen nano plus).
As I use linux quite a lot, often abandoning windows for several months (until a new game I just have to try pops out), this basically made my desicion for me. Seems like I am forced away from the ipod if I want to continue having my freedom to use the system I prefer.
Oh well, one less customer for Apple, then, I guess. I'm sure one of the other music player companies will be happy to take my cash away.
It's The Golden Rule: "He who has the gold makes the rules."
I have an 80GB ipod from last year. Does this mean that if I sync it again with iTunes that I can no longer use amarok with it? I sync with iTunes a couple times a year to update the software, but sync with amarok quite often. :-(
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
Fscking Apple had better release a version of iTunes for Linux if they are going to pull this BS. I'm glad my rev 1 nano works excellently with Amarok (I love that player).
\033:wq!
jerk Apple pays to come up with clever schemes to lock down their devices, there are dozens of others willing to put in all their spare time to break the scheme for free. How does that pay off in the end for anyone?
Apple is hostile to Linux, because it is beginning to compete with OS X in a much more serious way than Windows.
It all started last year when with the release of iTunes 7, Apple purposely broke DAAP, ending the compatibility of their iTunes software with various media players. Now rhythmbox/amaroK/banshee users can't listen to iTunes shares, and no one has yet been able to break the hash that would allow it.
So it comes as no surprise that the iPod is being further locked down. The closer our desktops get in usability to OS X (and they are not close yet, but making progress), the more of this we'll see.
Disclaimer: I use an OS X desktop and a Linux laptop.
Get an mp3 player that doesn't attempt a vendor lock-in trick that MS would be proud of. Simple as - tell jobs where to stuff it.
I can only assume that Apple believes that they will make more money by forcing people to only use iTunes, although I don't see how that can be the case. I don't think many Linux users are going to go buy a Mac just so they can get their iPod working. Nor do they even have the option of using iTunes (with it's associated iTMS integration). So, instead, such users will just buy alternate media players.
What's Apple's angle here?
I've encouraged a number of non-tech friends to convert from Windows to iMacs in the last couple years, including my dad and brother. My dad alone has bought at least $5000 in hardware in the last year (including two iMacs and an iPhone), based on my approval.
I feel violated, and suddenly wish I hadn't encouraged him.
Help! I'm a slashdot refugee.
The only difference between Sun, Apple and Microsoft is that Sun and Apple want to be as big as Microsoft, but aren't. None of them give a crap about the consumer and all are completely happy to walk over anyone/anything that gets in their way.
I'd sooner trust MS than Apple, because at least everyone hates MS, is looking over their shoulder and isn't giving them any leeway the moment some stench heads out from their corporate HQ.
What is going on with Apple?
Let us count how bad this product launch is:
1) 33% price cut for the iPhone, which threw early adopters in a fit, and then the $100 "rebate".
2) iPod touch is crippled. The Bluetooth is physically there (supposedly) but not enabled. No editing calender appointments. No Notes app or the other apps from iPhone. Screen issues with the contrast & blackness versus the iPhone.
3) iPod Classic, slower less responsive UI. Old Video accessories don't work with the iClassic.
4) iPod Nano, the FatPod. Same slower UI as the Classic. No memory increase.
Seriously, in 10 days Apple seems to have found a way to piss everyone off. Now they go after the Linux community. How badly have they bungled this product launch?
1) As a non-iPhone owner or wanter, the brew-ha-ha over the $200 price cut irritates me not because of the price cut but the reaction is such that you better believe Apple won't ever make similar price cuts in the future.
Plus you know a 16GB iPhone will come out as soon as the iPhone is released in Europe.
2) Once again, the iTouch will be jailbreaked and the iPhone apps ported to the iTouch, but this type of needless product differentiation crippling cause bad will. And, this hacking may break whenever Apple releases a firmware update. For example, the Linux lock-out of this story.
Apple could have just given people the product they want in the first place. As the screams of people have shown, there is a market for a phoneless iPhone.
The screen issues are unfixable but possibly explained by manufacturing variables.
3) The iClassic is the least changed and therefore least disliked of the new products. The software (DRM) incompatibility with video accessories is unnecessary.
4) Now the FatPod is merely ugly. It is a shame about the less responsive UI. And really it was time to bump up the storage to 16gb. One wonders if the storage was capped at 8Gb in an attempt to differentiate this versus the iTouch. After all if they are needlessly crippling the iTouch why not nerf the FatPod?
Is it just hurbis that has gotten Apple's head so far up its ass, or is this just a cyclical Apple implosion? If the latter, we are in for a few more years of Apple stupidity before they re-emerge with some new wonder product.
If you're using only Linux, then you're not using iTunes, and unless you have a some separate access to a computer with iTunes you're not using ITMS. So why use the proprietary database format of iTunes at all? Just use rockbox and treat your iPod like what it is, a mass storage device. Easier manage your files that way anyway. Headline really should read Apple Cuts Off ITMS From Potential Users.
The thing you're missing is that Apple executives did not sit down and decide to make things hard for Linux users. Probably they sat down and looked for a way to stop MS from making WMP work with the iPod, since, MS uses similar lock in strategies against them in other markets every day. They were probably considering Sony and maybe Real. They may or may not have considered Linux at all and if they did they probably decided there were so few Linux users that the impact would not be as bad as letting MS leverage their monopolies to push Apple out of markets while not taking every effort to leverage their own near monopoly.
Normally I'd object pretty strongly to any sort of enforced tie ins like this, but when competing against MS and while it is clear the Justice department will do nothing to stop their abuses, Apple and all other companies competing with them are in a very bad spot. Two wrongs don't make a right, but anything that stops MS from becoming the sole gatekeeper for DRM and all media within the next decade sounds like something we really, really need. And make no mistake, if not for Apple's iPod and Apple leveraging it, WMP would be the format for almost all legal music on the internet and MS would be taking a cut of it and preparing to stop said music from playing on Linux and other OS's altogether
Also, I don't own an iPod and am pretty sure there will be a work around in short order.
Except that you forgot the part that Linux is a free OS that works well with very cost effective computers. Unless Apple starts giving away free Macs, you're not going to see the kind of migration you're suggesting.
It will probably be more cost effective to go with another system such as Creative's Zen. (Now if only some other player would licence out or provide incentives for intercompatability with other devices such as docking with stereos, iPod wouldn't be the big thing it is now. Or do they somehow have a patent lock on what is apparently an obvious implementation?)
Sheesh!
How, exactly is this news?
//, Newton, RedBox are all things I cared enough to write code for to make some FRNs to pay the IRS. Gave up on Apple after getting the short brown sticky end of the stick.
Apple under Jobs has a history of screwing various developers.
Apple
What I am shocked is how shock is expressed when Apple (or Sony) does some screwing of the development community.
It's not like they're trying to hack the iTunes DRM - they just want to use a legitimate product they've purchased...
That's the weird thing. Exactly what incentive does Apple have to make their product less appealing to open source users?
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
Maybe they really don't care and this is just a distraction from something they do care about. Now where did I put my tinfoil hat...
Insert Generic Sig Here:
Does not in my opinion count as "cutting off".. cutting off would be some sort of hardware flash on existing devices.
This is a new device that just happens to have the same name, that requires a different hack to work in an unsupported mode.
Hardly suprising, hardly "evil"
Why else would he ban Linux? Apple Public Relations department just can't spin this one. I'm disappointed.
Meh, maybe, maybe not. This only affects new iPods, so at this stage I suspect most people will just buy some other MP3 player that works with GNOME et al.
I know I will. I like Apple's new iPod line-up, but nothing they're selling is so compelling that the alternatives aren't worthy of consideration. I have been thinking of replacing my old 2nd gen 10G iPod, for a variety of reasons (I don't want to upgrade the battery again, and the thing is Firewire only, which I don't have on the laptop I want to move everything to), but I guess an iPod is out of the running at this stage. I'm just glad I didn't buy much from the iTMS.
Does anyone know if 8Gb+ SD cards are coming any time soon? The Nokia N800 might make a perfect replacement in terms of what I need a portable device for.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
I was thinking of buying a powerbook. But after this, it's apparent that both Apple and Microsoft have their interests at heart more than those of the consumer.
I'll stick with my Linux laptop instead. No reason to buy from a closed company, anyway. Why, yes, I expect to use my hardware in the way I intend to, not the way the manufacturer "lets" me. <SARCASM> How gracious of Apple to let you play music on hardware you've bought. We should all feel so lucky that Apple allows us this priveledge. </SARCASM>
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
...to not buy an ipod, or any other apple product.
"Now you know, and knowing is half the battle!"
Maybe you should buy a product that is explicitly supported on your OS of choice instead of buying one that isn't supported and them complaining when something gets changed breaking the non-supported hack you are using.
You want to complain that Apple doesn't support Linux? Fine. But don't beat up Apple because an update they issued broke something they never said would work in the first place.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
I was actually thinking of trading in my 4Gen pod for a new color one with more space.
I guess ill have to choose another vendor. As much as i like apple, i refuse to be tied down like that. Ill have to reconsider this again when its time to upgrade to a newer mac too. They might have lost a lifetime customer. ( im still pissed about the swtich to intel CPUs... this might be the final straw )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I was thinking of getting a new imac with aperture and an ipod touch this fall to replace an ibook and a 1st gen nano. Between this, locking out third-party AV cables, and selling locked GSM phones at full price, they're starting to show their true colours. I doubt I'll be giving them any of my money anymore. Looks like I'll be putting the money into a Linux beige box, Bibble Pro, and something made by Archos instead. It's a shame; I like OSX and was looking forward to running leopard on a highend machine.
Companies like Apple lock their products up so that you can only use them the way they want you to and you still give them your money?
I agree. You need help.
Macintosh computer, $2900 ...six months later...
Apple laser printer, $2400
Upgrade to the new Macintosh, which is now entry level
$1100 + tax
technical writing / development
iTunes sucks. I have an iPod 160 and my library has 11,000 songs (and there are folks out there with 50,000+). I'm on Windows XP SP2 on a fast box with 2GB memory and USB 2.0. iTunes is entirely unscalable. It is very slow to do anything with my library, even with manual sync. Adding one song to the iPod is a 5-minute process. File transfer speed is not the problem. For sure iTunes wastes time doing unnecessary work. Ejecting the iPod alone takes over a minute. Also, the iTunes MP3 player is buggy. It has trouble with MP3/VBR and generates clicking in the audio output. MediaMonkey is a much better content organizer. It is very fast. But the Apple's file format change on the iPod Classic means the current version of MM can't handle the iPod filesystem. I hope the MM developers will have the problem solved soon.
Birth is the leading cause of death.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
If they DMCA'd your site, you'd have even more against them. Especially if you publish the formula/code for the crack/cipher , there's not a lot you can do.
Luuucccyyy^^ AAppppllee you got some splainin' to do!!
-Oh' Ricky
Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
Is this any different than what Apple has always done? They want their hardware to work with their software. Only their hardware and their software.
I can somewhat see the business aspect side of this (though not really). If Linux on iPod becomes pretty good (which last time I used it, it wasn't) it can offer free games (it already does), more music formats, etc. All of which takes away from the iTunes store.
All in all I don't think it will really matter. For some reason people REALLY want to put Linux on their iPod (don't ask me why) and eventually there will be Linux on the iPod.
Mine works fine on Linux. I got tired of the weirdo preprocessed data format on my Shuffle and bought something else instead. It just took me a while to find something that was good quality. The only disadvantage is that when you add/remove files the sansa scans the entire filesystem to find all the files when it boots up, as long as you have not modified the filesystem it seems to skip that check. The microSD slot for adding more capacity is a nice touch.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Not that it will necessarily change anything, but Apple might realize they've made a mistake sooner if the Slashdot crowd starts complaining directly.
http://www.apple.com/feedback/ipod.html
Hehe, it would be funny the their feedback system was slashdotted over this...
Registered Linux User #423733
Jesus f*ing christ.
I don't think Apple is punishing anyone, but why the fuck should they care about putting QA money into making sure a NON-SUPPORTED OS for a product works?
Last I checked, there is no where on the iPod box that says "WORKS WITH LINUX, XBOX360, PS3, YOUR CAT, Dos 5.0"
Everyone calm the fuck down, someone will have a hack/fix in a day or 2.
Two words, "Fuck that."
... as it relates to portable music devices.
Open Standards help everyone except companies trying to be a monopoly. Nice going Apple, you are the new Microsoft
I'd rather buy a cheap Chinese knockoff of the Ipod (or just about any other Mp3 player) than being forced to use iTunes. I've been systematically avoiding to use any Mp3 player that needs a special software to write some kind of "database". Its much easier to just drop the files into the mp3 player, create your folders, etc, like you do with any pen drive. This is obviously an attempt to force you to use THEIR software, THEIR store, etc. instead of giving you choices.
I bought a 160GB Classic on Sunday (the 60GB iPod Photo I've had for two years had 11MB free, and I was waiting until they broke the 100GB barrier to upgrade), and tried to do what I did when I bought the 60GB iPod Photo that replaced my original 20GB 3G - copy the iPod_Control directory over to the new iPod. I didn't want to have to re-enter ratings for 60GB worth of songs, and I didn't really want to lose my play counts, either. The end result? The new Classic had a cow - it told me I had zero songs, and iTunes recommended a full Restore, much like what happened in TFA. I ended up using Senuti to pull everything off my old iPod (play counts and ratings included), pump it into iTunes, and copied everything over to the Classic manually.
I understand that Apple wants everyone to use iTunes to manage their music and movie collections, but even back in the days of my 20GB 3G, I had no desire to allow iTunes to auto-fill my iPod. It's nice that they allow you to manually manage your media, but because I do I have to jump through flaming hoops every two years or so when it's time to upgrade to a larger-capacity iPod.
I just emailed Apple a few days ago asking for a Linux version of iTunes. No wonder I didn't hear back from them.
Putting in cryptographic hashes isn't just "breaking the interface". It's called locking down the entire bloody thing and making life miserable for anybody trying to reverse engineer it.
Granted, Apple is well within its rights to do such a thing, but it's bad PR. People are starting to warm up to the idea that once you buy something, you should be able to use it however you like (since you BOUGHT it). Apple has no obligation to support 3rd party software, but neither are they obligated to break 3rd party software. Without any other explanation, it looks like it was a deliberate attempt to lock out non-Apple software. And that's why people are upset - it's the same reason DRM riles so many people.
I guess I'd better go buy a Zune!!!!
General Relativity: Space-time tells matter where to go; Matter tells space-time what shape to be.
This revolutionary new tool allows any audio device with a 3.5mm stereo output jack to dock with any other audio device with a 3.5mm stereo input jack.
Man, it's great to see all the same people who bash MS endlessly and offer up Apple as an alternative right after Linux getting their panties in a bunch over this.
I am sincerely bothered by the number of Linux users who, by some really twisted logic, are willing to suggest Apple as an alternative to Linux but in the same breath scream "lock in" about Microsoft.
This move by Apple isn't news at all. It's just yet another example of a vendor that scoffs at their buying public by enforcing both software and hardware lock in. At least in these kinds of cases you have a better chance with Microsoft.
Go ahead and call me an astroturfer all you want. I know that my iPod is going to work fine with Windows. So while you're bashing me and supporting Steve Jobs just remember who did what to make this into an issue in the first place.
All of you open technology types who recommend Apple for any reason need to do a reality check. While they may not be as large as Microsoft their business practices and agenda are certainly worse.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
You can already get 8GB SDHC (SD High Capacity) cards for less than 100$.
I have read that SDHC compatible kernels are available for the N800.
Also, the N800 is supposed to have two SD slots (one is easily accessible, the other is more "internal").
The N800 still sells for 350$.
This sounds like a nice combo.
This move isn't about blocking Linux iPod users - it's broader than that - it blocks all third-party applications from putting music onto the iPod. The fact that some of those applications run on Linux is probably irrelevant to Apple, because Linux users who don't also have a PC or Mac are probably a very small percentage of Apple's potential sales.
So, why would Apple want to block third-party apps from writing to iPods? Let's speculate:
- Apple might be getting customer support calls from people who corrupt their iPod databases. So by blocking third-party apps, Apple is reducing support costs.
- Apple is about to make major changes to iTunes, and to the iPod database format, and needs to keep third-party apps from corrupting the new databases.
- Apple wants to be the only way that music gets on iPods for some business reason.
Enable 3D printed prosthetics!
This isn't about cutting off Linux. This is about cutting off interoperability with everyone else.
There's just no way I'd buy a music player or phone from Apple. Wait until the iPhone-unlockers get screwed by some software update. You haven't even started to hear the screaming, yet.
I gotta give Apple some credit for guts, though. Even Microsoft doesn't have the balls to be so obviously hostile.
"Believe me!" -- Donald Trump
Wine has just committed several patches to get iTunes 7 running under wine. iPod support is the next thing in line. Assuming iPod's can be detected under Wine/iTunes, this may be a viable workaround until the hash can be cracked.
I will treat my 30gb ipod video like gold....
Chaos is Divine *
Yeah, Apple totally wants to steal Linux's market share... why, they might make a whole $2000 off all the Linux users who switch! This was a brilliant strategy!
This has nothing to do with anything other than:
1. not supporting iPods that have been messed with by third party software
2. keeping up the appearance of maintaining DRM/locking so the music industry remains happy
Buckle your ROFL belt, we're in for some LOLs.
..unsolicited, and while its a cool device, that proprietary format sucks. I have a massive CD collection ripped sitting on a shared drive, and everytime she wants something she has to let Itunes convert it and store another copy of the song.
I think apple makes dealing with existing collections difficult so you are pushed to buy from their store. In my case, it pushes me away from buying IPods.
Seriously. No intelligent person would ever purchase anything that company makes. Apple is lucky that there are so many idiots out there --
It's funny how every change Apple makes to their private APIs simply must be an evil draconian measure to counteract those pesky Linux users.
Let's see: Someone reverse engineers the *private* transfer protocol and database format Apple uses for the iPod. At some later point, said private protocol/format is changed by Apple. Why should Apple give a shit about breaking a private interface?
The summary mentions that a hash was introduced. Is it not a traditional to use hashes in order to verify data integrity? Seems much more likely to me that this was a change to protect against or detect incomplete transfers or data corruption. If they were trying to prevent people from making their own file transfers they would have used some form of encrypted data transfer, not merely add a hash value.
Stop whining that Apple changed a private API. It's private for a reason, and it should be a foregone conclusion that it may change at any time and you'll have to update your interface. Figure out the change and get on with it.
This happens whenever I update my iPod from a Hackintosh I put together from spare parts. Plugging the iPod into any actual Mac and then ejecting it again from within iTunes fixes the problem. Anything I copied over from the "bad" computer is present when the iPod comes back up.
Not much help if you don't have an actual Mac, but if you do, this works.
Apple just can't help but shoot themselves in the foot. They hit a sweet spot with the iPod, but their recent misstep with the latest generation has left little doubt that they iPod will soon go the way of the Macintosh computer and go from a market leader to a niche item.
In a sense, it all started with the iPhone. By tying the service to AT&T, they limited their potential customers to a fraction of the nation's cellular subscribers. After failing to meet sales expectations, Apple was forced to drop the price dramatically and issue a costly rebate to pacify their early-adopter fanbase.
To be sure, there is much that is innovative about the device. The user interface, especially the web browser, is miles ahead of comparable products. It is a sad state of affairs that such ingenuity has been sabotaged by Apple's obsession with controlling the users of their platforms.
In taking out the phone and releasing the iPod touch, though, Apple made another huge blunder. Instead of adding a real hard drive, Apple used the same flash memory they do in the iPhone, limiting the device to 16GB. For many longtime iPod users, this is nowhere near enough storage.
Apple's solution has been to simultaneously release the iPod Classic, which has more than ample storage, but is lacking in all the exciting new features that Apple has been devoting their R&D to. These users will feel left out, and be more suceptable to switching to a competitors player that offers more features when it comes time for another purchase.
Then, of coarse, there is the new iPod Nano Video, with its tiny screen. This isn't Tokyo, impractically small electronics have never taken off in America, and the new Nano will be no exception.
This new development is just another nail in the coffin on the new iPod line. If I still had Apple stock, I would sell it now. As many other posters and TFA point out, it's not just Linux users, admittedly a small minority, that are being shut out; it's also Windows users who want to manage their iPod from the player of their choice.
Apple's insistence on dictating behavior on their users has crossed the line from insult to injury. Congratulations, Steve, you just lost a customer.
Really, what does Apple have to gain for this? They just make the Linux users mad, who could have bought their hardware and when they don't allow Linux, they soon die, if they support Linux, they make profit and free press. think of Dell, after offering Ubuntu, how many Linux users will have their next computer be a Dell? Chances are many. Once ATI opens up its drivers, how many people will have ATI video cards in a new computer? Probably alot. That was how HP, nVidia and now Dell got ahead. Although Linux users are still a niche, those that support it get richer, those that don't get posted on slashdot and quickly get hated by the Linux users. Its not that when they don't officially support Linux they loose money but when they prevent it, they become hated and later loose money. Really, what does Apple have to loose by supported Linux except a few million dollars if they don't?
There is no "disagree" moderation, and troll, flamebait and overrated are not valid substitutes
It's simple, only dumb users buy such crappy hardware.
So Apple makes expensive stuff that's marginally better than the cheap stuff everyone else makes. Why does anyone care about Apple's products? Applie is as evil as MSFT (if not more) and should be avoided by anyone who cares about software freedom. I just don't get the hype about Apple's products.
Heh, didn't you see the memo
We're all, tigerdiect sucks now (they always have, but still!)
I got you an Andes mint, but it melted in my pocket
We have a blog that has only one post to its name making sweeping conclusions about a supposed change to the itunes database structure.
/. but can we throw in a little gravity to the conclusion jumping.
I know this is
Apple is proof positive that MS is not a 100% monopoly. They have a small share of the market, to be sure, but they've had it for decades.
So it would appear that you don't have to have a 100% market share to get slapped for laws relating to monopoly status.
Yeah, so instead they put in extra resources in order to actively exclude a portion of the market. That makes much more sense.
No, that would be Steve Jobs that has his head up there, not Apple as a company.
Remember, they kicked him out once before. I think its past time to do it again.
He has his place at starting 'insanely great ideas', then he needs to get the hell out of the way, which he cant seem to do.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
MP3 players were out long before the iPod ever came around, but nobody really cared. To the extent that people did listen to music, they'd just keep doing it on a walk/discman or the like. An MP3 player was just a new gadget that only some cared about. Well, Apple changed that, they sold the style, they made it cool. It became a fashion accessory. Sorority girls started to carry them not even because they cared about listening to music, but because it was fashionable to do so.
Apple convinced everyone that a music player was something you needed to have, and their's was the stylish one to get. As such, they managed to grab the majority of the market.
Well, once you've got something like that going, inertia will carry you a long way. People don't like change, once they get something that works for them they don't change it without reason. As such you get people sold on iPods and when they need a new player, they just go and get another one, they don't really look at alternates. It works for them, why change?
Finally you should know that individuality isn't something most hold in a high regard. Even most of the "non-conformist" types simply work real hard to conform with their given non-conformist group. It's rare to find people who simply don't give a shit and do their own thing regardless of society.
I wonder how this affects Real. I use an ipod with Realplayer 10.5, I've been purchasing music from Real's music store. The article talks about how it affects the linux clients. Anyone know how does it affect Real?
They could just be for integrity checking. Maybe Apple doesn't want people using 3rd party utilities that screw up the iPods then having to get the calls from those users furious that the thing no longer works. That's one explanation. Maybe with all the executable stuff they offer now (games, which will probably increase) the iPod is so popular it is becoming a bigger target and they don't want "How your iPod can kill your computer... story at 11PM" plastered all over the TV. By not telling others how to do it (they have NEVER supported 3rd party programs in doing stuff with the iPod), they keep virus writers from circumventing the protection.
As for bad PR, bull. This will never be picked up by the mainstream media. 95% or more of iPod users will never hear this story or understand ore care about it even if they did.
I'd like to point out that they are not obliged not to break 3rd party stuff. If you are doing things that are not company sanctioned, you should just assume that any updates may break your stuff.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
"have that code executed by the .." HAHAHAH you dumb piece of shit.
Say it with me: data base. data base. database. database.
IT'S NOT AN EXECUTABLE.
afzal ghghd sdf
Linux users in general are cheap and will whine if it is not.
Nobody likes pussies, but there are some real dicks out there.
When the dicks start pushing the pussies it gets real sloppy and than you have to bring in the asshole to clean it all up.
iPods are overrated, incompatible and over priced, designed to make you use iTunes, which is even more evil.
Go buy an iAudio.
ps. fsck apple
pps. fsck jobs
ppps. did you know that jobbie in ireland means poo?
Salut,
Jacques
Am I allowed to express my pleasure in both the move to Mac (from Windoz) and the purchase of a 60g VIpod last year? Would that be considered appropriate around here or is that like farting in public? I read these comments and everybody bashes Apple and the Ipod-Itunes stuff because Apple wants to restrict how their product is used. Apparantly, the Apple product ONLY becomes crappy when it can no longer be hacked to work with....fill in the blank. Then the commenter goes on some Archos or Sandisk tirade. Makes me wonder why they bought the 'crappy' Ipod in the first place if all those other players are so superior! Here's a newsflash to my Slashdot brethren. It's not about how much Apple charges for their stuff. It costs more but it works as advertised. I'd be pissed if I'd bought an Ipod and it didn't work with my Linux box only IF APPLE HAD EVER PLEDGED that it would in the first place. Was it somewhere under systems requirements that I didn't see? Enjoy.
This ain't no upwardly mobile freeway This is the road to hell
It's not aimed at screwing linux users, it's aimed at making sure Real and WMP can't write to the device. Both companies have tried.
Umm... you probably should if you want a fairly reliable, well-engineered, and easy to use portable music player that's compatible with the widest variety of 3rd. party hardware add-ons and accessories?
I didn't know that a device's inability to have Linux easily installed on it made it "defective by design"? Wow... I better get rid of my washer, dryer, toaster, oven, microwave, plasma TV set, and a whole slew of other electronic devices in my home then! Who knew!?
Seriously, I like it as much as the next person when hackers find ways to do new things with electronics. There were some great little unofficial hacks to the firmware of my Motorola Razr cellphone, for example. But I'd never label the phone "defective" if Motorola updated the original firmware and broke the hacks. It's really not Moto's job to make sure 3rd. party hacks and changes continue to work for people!
As someone else already pointed out - in this case, Apple very well might just be trying to protect the iPod's database from being modified by malicious applications. Mac users aren't so used to that concept, but Windows user sure should be by now -- and more people sync iPods with Windows than any other OS.
Two points:
1) You're assuming that this change is intended purely to alienate Linux users. This change was probably made for some other reason, and alienating Linux users was a (possibly unintended) side-effect of it.
2) The iPod never claimed to carry any sort of support for Linux whatsoever. It seems to me that if you wanted to support Linux, you'd buy a product that actually supports Linux instead of one that doesn't-- and then complaining when the hack you're using to get it to work no longer works!
Comment of the year
Cutting off Linux users is just a side effect of this.
"Empathise with stupidity, and you're halfway to thinking like an idiot." - Iain M. Banks
Don't forget, they sued Apple for using "Tiger" in the name of their operating system, too. This revolutionary reverse-engineering of the 3.5mm jack is clearly TigerDirect striking back.
Don't blame me, I voted for Baltar.
Sell AAPL now. Their recent moves appear to focus on undoing all that they've done.
So much for a brilliant CEO.
expandfairuse.org
TEH OMG!!! Does this mean Teh Lunix's love affair with all things Apple has ended? Will Slashdotters now start bashing Apple for being a worse monopoly than teh hated Microsoft, or are their tongues buried too far up SteveJob's rear?
Tune in next time!!
This, along with Apple's change to the video out to render devices like Philip's DVD/iPod video player unable to play video from iPods is frustrating. It's a shame Apple has gone far from its roots as a company that encourages innovation around their products.
Philip's portable DVD/iPOD player is real neat - drop the iPod in the cradle on the device and watch video on a bigger screen.
Apple even sold similar devices in tehir stores - maybe they just want to extort money from companies that build such devices?
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
cry linux fags cry! hahahahahahaha. i love to see you faggots crying about how there is no love for you fucking snobs. i hope you fucking rot for this. i hope you suffer and i hope it makes people see what a fucking joke you, your faggot os and your faggot attitudes are.
i pledge to buy at least one apple product for making the linux fags cry.
I wouldn't be so sure. How long is it since iTunes 6 (what happened to 5?) was released? rhythmbox, amarok, banshee, etc. users are unable to access music on a DAAP share hosted by iTunes 6 or later.
I thought the iPod worked like any other USB drive - I don't need iTunes to put music on my thumb drive, I just mount it on the file system and transfer the files. Of course, I use MP3s exclusively - might it have something to do with Apple's proprietary music file format (.m4a et al)? I thought you could load regular files on your iPod too. An MP3 is just another file. If you can't play MP3s that you've uploaded to your iPod - you might as well buy another (cheaper) alternative that will let you do just that. What am I missing here?
I expect Apple will produce a linux iTunes executable for download - they already have one for Windows, so why not? It doesn't make any sense to block revenue - in the form of iTunes purchases - from an ever growing segment of your market. Of course Jobs did anger the iPhone early adopters by lowering prices - some would say prematurely, so it might not be a stretch to see them starting to get a bit of that Microsoft hubris as their market share grows...
In the interests of full disclosure I am both an OSX and Linux owner/user - with all that implies. I do not have an iPod (my Macbook is my mobile music system - although it's hell to jog with).
Lodragan Draoidh
The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The iAudio D2 seems to support SDHC-cards.
http://www.cowonglobal.com/product/product_D2_feature.php
I have a work around for you - don't buy this device. It's that simple really. If you object to Apple policies don't buy their equipment. It's just an overpriced mp3 player and there are plenty of others to choose from.
Ok, I'll have to take a look for that. Honestly, the lack of capacity has been the only thing stopping me from buying an N800 and using it to replace (amongst other things) my iPod.
Sounds like the time has come...
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
If a company is trying to force me to use one application, then already it's not worth checking out. I don't care how pretty it looks or how seamless it operates, the point is that this type of thinking will only hurt Apple in the end. That's why I recommend a Sansa and some Creative players, as they show up as a simple USB drive & you can use any application you want.
They've also made it currently impossible to use alternate OSes on the iPod by encrypting the firmware on the 2nd gen Nano and all subsequent iPods, which is a much more difficult obstacle to overcome. I'm surprised there isn't as much of an uproar about this on Slashdot.
I guess they'll have to buy a new player.
Apple doesn't give a crap about Linux and never did. For that matter Microsoft isn't terribly worried about Linux either. When somebody does something that pisses off Linux users it's not because they're out to get them or have an axe to grind. It's because they're doing something else that they consider important and it happens to interfere in some way with a group of users they don't consider significant enough to try and pursue.
I miss the old days when the rest of you guys would get pissed off and go write your own software. Now too many people start crying as soon as somebody makes a change and stops one of your toys from working. Back in the day most of the posters in here expected their shit to not work with Linux until they figured out how to make it work with Linux. Now you're all just a bunch of crybabies!
Sorry, it's true.
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
They last consumer friendly product they made was the Apple ][. After that it was the hardware version of MS software. All about lock-in and restrictions. Stop paying them to abuse you and they'll stop abusing you by changing their ethics or going out of business.
There is no right to feel safe thru security vaudeville at the expense of everyone's freedom, privacy and tax money.
The iPod became popular through clever marketing. Period. That is what Apple does well. Market.
Over-the-top Response Guy! Giving "Over-the-Top Responses" since 1970.
I tried iTunes a couple of years ago, and it was lame, but workable. I tried it again just last week, and it is now completely unusable.
What is the first thing you want to do with a music player? Put some music on it. Well, there's no easy way to do this in iTunes. You have to build a music library by searching disk. What do you do if you move from one storage network to another? Uninstall iTunes, reinstall, and search the new disk space? What do you do if you add some tracks to disk? There's no obvious incremental search. Drag-n-drop did nothing. Searching menus was fruitless.
Sorry, for all of their supposed ease of use, in the monomaniacal pursuit of iTunes store sales, they've rendered their players useless as shipped. The only reasonable thing to do with my ipod is to flash it with a basic MP3 player firmware. There are several for this purpose. Then you can use it like any other USB drive. Dragndrop, OS-neutral.
-I like my women like I like my tea: green-
I've got a Palm Tungsten T3 and E2. Both have Real One (or something) on them, which is a fairly basic MP3 application. It works. I have some £26 ($50) Sennheiser earphones which sound OK.
I rip my CDs with cdparanoia and encode with LAME, writing the files to MMC or SD with my £10 ($20) multi-card reader/writer all on Linux (Slackware of course).
No problems, no DRM, no obstacles. It Just Works(TM).
Stick Men
I think the big question here for me is why are they doing this? I suspect security risk, though I'm not sure, but when I was introduced to OS10 I was told that it had the same relationship with Unix that Linux nowadays has. Now this is a bit of a stretch of a comparison, I'm sure, but that's how I'm uniformed. Whats the main difference between OS10 and Linux that causes them to do this?
Posting with out proof reading since 2001.
Wine 0.9.45 was released today, with the following main changes:
Can You Say Linux? I Knew That You Could.
Who modded the parent insightful?
I'll give you US$20.00 for your 2nd gen iPod. Seriously. This is legit.
I need to get the data off the HD of MY 2nd gen iPod, and the frigging thing won't mount on the desktop anymore.
I need a 2nd gen so I can change out the HD with my HD.
Guaranteed! This comment 100% Anthrax free!
...that Apple did it because they were stupid, not malicious.
(and I'm typing this from my much beloved MacBook before anyone starts making assumptions about my affiliations)
TRHOnline - Staggering Towards Brilliance
bullshit, i've made it work on itunes 7.
How?
What if it's a stolen iPod?
The phrase "more better" is acceptable English. suck it grammar Nazis
Strange; I can put music on iTunes in a number of ways:
1) let it search for new music when first installed
2) drag the music into whatever playlist I want from the OS file browser. I can choose to have it either move the file into the iTunes library, or copy it and leave the original.
3) double-click a file in Explorer/Finder and have it either copy or move the file into the library.
I presume you're using the Windows version, as I found it less intuitive than the MacOS version.
I use iTunes, but up until Apple started offering DRM-free files, I didn't use iTMS/iTS. I use a PDA instead of an iPod, and sync with an iTunes playlist.
Personally, while the iPod has always been easy to use, it's always had too many things that weren't quite right for me (no removeable storage, can't drag-n-drop files onto it in USB drive mode to get them to play, no touch screen [fixed], hard-to-replace battery, no way to easily develop my own software for it, etc.). This being said, the iTouch almost has me... all it's missing is an HDSC slot and BlueTooth.
I tried it again just last week, and it is now completely unusable.
Wow... don't poke around user interfaces much, do you?
Put some music on it. Well, there's no easy way to do this in iTunes. You have to build a music library by searching disk.
Well, you can have it search a disk, that's true. You can also drag and drop music on it. You can open it from the File menu. You can stick a CD in it and click the import button (or even have it configured to auto-rip it and spit out the disc, which is very useful if you have a lot of CDs to rip). It even figures out the track names for you on most CDs.
What do you do if you move from one storage network to another? Uninstall iTunes, reinstall, and search the new disk space?
Or, copy the files over to the new drive, go to the Advanced preferences and change the "iTunes Music folder location." Whew, that was difficult!
What do you do if you add some tracks to disk?
You mean only import certain tracks? Un-check the ones you don't want before import. Do you mean create a new CD to burn? Create a playlist, select it and click "Burn." What are you getting at here?
There's no obvious incremental search.
Not sure what you are looking for here... care to elaborate?
Drag-n-drop did nothing.
Unless the Windows version is a severely limited version compared to the Mac version (which wasn't true when I used it awhile back... maybe it is more so now), then this is BS. Or, are you talking about the iPod itself? If so, that is true... you can't just drag music onto it from the OS, you have to use iTunes or some other software that knows how to (this article not withstanding). Searching menus was fruitless.
It sounds like you had already made up your mind before you started. That certainly makes it harder to figure things out.
let me take care of that with this firmware update.
You mean Rockbox? Sounds great. I'm not sure why Apple and other companies bother to reinvent the wheel when such good, free firmware is available. Oh yeah, that's right, digital restrictions. How could I ever forget digital restrictions?
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
Ha, I'm not ready to give it up quite yet!
That said, I believe the iPod's HD is a straight (if small, at 1.8") IDE drive, so you should be able to hook it up to a standard IDE interface using the right cable (it may even be the same as the 2.5" IDE interface, I can't remember.)
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
What do you do if you add some tracks to disk? There's no obvious incremental search. Drag-n-drop did nothing. Searching menus was fruitless.
File->Add to Library->select the files you want to add.
If that is still too complicated, command-O->select the files you want to add.
Apple made it pretty idiot-proof. You shouldn't have upgraded.
I live ze unknown. I love ze unknown. I am ze unknown.
*time to lose some karma* >>I'm surprised there isn't as much of an uproar about this on Slashdot.
I am not. When it comes to Apple, the fanatics will gang up on anybody complaining even a slight bit about Apple. They don't see the irony that Apple has become Microsoft of the DAP market. Force is very strong on them.
I didn't do anything special. I didn't test passworded DAAP sharing, maybe that's your thing. The client was amarok, the "server" was a mac mini.
Remember the labels start with the assumption that all music on an iPod that isn't from the music store is illegal. Label complains, threatens to not permit Apple to distribute their music. If Apple will lose more money if the label pulls out than if they do whatever stupid thing the label is asking for, they're probably obligated to do it.
If you want to be treated fairly by a publicly trade company, you'd better be a source of revenue for them somehow or other.
But I saw a post about a sha/md5 cracker http://nsa.unaligned.org/ Could that help at all?
Restore the madness of youth's lechery
And now let's hear the yells "Dont you know whats under OSX?"
What version of iTunes? Maybe it was iTunes 7 that broke DAAP sharing.
Most people do not care about being locked into one music player program. Most people do not own multiple computers or store their music in several places. Most people do not use a lot of music formats. The sound quality argument is a wash, ... [more about unwashed ignorance]
The key word missing from your synopsis is "yet". People care, just like you do. They will want flexibility, aka freedom, and music that does not sound like shit. Ipod is good hardware with restrictions that hurt when you get a clue. People eventually get a clue.
AOL and M$ are good examples of clue factor in operation. Most people, you could say, use one of the other if not both. That does not mean that most people are happy with either.
People are mostly happy with their ipods, but they will run into it's limitations.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
If it's an integrity check, they could just use a CRC and stick to the content on the disk. Or SHA1, if they wanted to be really paranoid about integrity.
Hashing the serial number of the hardware with an unknown key is lockout, no alternate explanation.
Back in the day we wouldn't get 5 years in prison for writing software to workaround intentional bugs added by the vendor to prop up their outdated and failing business model.
Now we do.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
With Apple fanbois, its always a question of whether they are really that dense or they just act that way to justify Apple's decision.
>You say they have "long been proprietary with whatever it suits them to be proprietary >with"....but their position on DRM doesn't really jibe with this. I'm sure you could
>come up with something self serving there too, but that seems like a stretch.
Their position on DRM has NOTHING to do with the the sentence 'long been proprietary with whatever it suits them to be proprietary'.
DRM is something the label push for because it suits them. DRM is not an Apple creation, they are forced to live with it. DRM free will probably sell more mp3's and that is the reason Jobs has been pushing for it.
Your point doesnt counter the statement you tried to refute but its self serving to the hilt.
Bravo for being a hypocrite and a wienie.
Im not gonna drudge every bit of Apple history as example but only a fanboi would claim that Apple isnt a proprietary company.
I thought the iPod worked like any other USB drive - I don't need iTunes to put music on my thumb drive, I just mount it on the file system and transfer the files.
No, the iPod doesn't work this way. It keeps the files in a special part of the file system and even if you put the files there it needs special tools to make it work.
I don't understand why anyone using Linux would bother with an iPod. I found it a horribly frustrating MP3 player because of the annoying user interface and daft click wheel... AND it costs more! Why bother with it?
sadly, using rockbox on ipods like cuts the play time in half, so if you're really wanting to use rockbox [which is THE perfect jukebox software in your pocket], go search another compatible device.
:)
:P --- do people really need an iPod!?
ps: i have a Toshiba Gigabeat F20 that's fully supported and actually beats the original firmware in play time. apple could think smarter and release [read: slip, "leak"] specs for their products , they would sell ipods like bananas for the rockboxers around
about rockbox: plays like everything i throw at it, with replaygain support, crossfading, nice skinning, unicode, and all other buzzwords you can think, my songs are well tagged so i can use the Database feature with better/more search options than the ipod, and i have AllwaySync installed on my box [windows dir synchronization app] so then i plug in my player, all new songs are uploaded automagically to it, no questions or popups.
Don't buy closed products
I think it's more popular to put your iPod on Linux than to put Linux on your iPod.
Additionally, there may be valid reasons for encrypting your firmware -- such as part of it being licensed proprietary stuff. But this move clearly removes Apple's competition from a market that it has no intention of entering. It's behavior that hurts their customers and hurts them and benefits no one.
That's a real shame. I was considering getting an iPod Touch once Linux (or, ideally, OpenBSD, but I'm not holding out much hope of that) was ported to use prototyping mobile applications. With no possibility of running anything other than Apple's locked-down platform, it's just not interesting.
I am TheRaven on Soylent News
I'm a huge Apple fan, but I'll admit, that's just assaholic. Few Apple heads can justify this. And for you anti-Apple people... I have yet to see any Apple fans TRY to justify it, so STFU. So let's just admit it, Apple did an evil little thing today. No ifs, ands, or buts.
Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
iPods suck anyway -- I use a Cowon D2 best MP3 player ever!
because dragging and dropping your files to iTunes is so hard?
because "file--import" is so hard?
because inserting a cd and clicking the songs you want ripped to you library when prompted is so hard?
because going to the iTunes store and clicking the "buy song" button is so hard? Quit being so damned disingenious! What OTHER ways do you want to add songs to your iTunes library!!!???? If everything you claim is true, then you obviously have user induced handicaps when it comes to operating computers.
Whatever organization you work with, you're dancing with the devil. It doesn't matter whether it's a big company or a cooperative or a neighborhood association or the Free Software Foundation or Red Hat. As soon as enough people get together they become a new kind of animal, one made of paper and power, contracts and by-laws. You can't *not* dance with the devil, you just have to be aware of what tools the devil has to get a hold on you.
Don't let yourself get locked in.
With OSX, that's a lot easier to avoid than with Windows. You can treat your Mac as a UNIX box with some extra applications, and you can shift to Linux or FreeBSD or Solaris if you have to. That's what open systems get you... the ability to make yourself independent of what any particular implementation of that system does... because none of the players controls the system. Not the FSF, Apple, the FreeBSD project, or Sun.
With Windows, for a while it looked like Microsoft were going to let you live the UNIX life on their platform too, with Interix. But no, that's going to be for Vista *server* only. I'd been using Interix on Windows as my UNIX-on-NT solution, but because I wasn't dependent on it I could drop it. No, don't talk to me about Cygwin (or about Wine).
With the iPod, though, you're dealing with hardware that's completely locked in. If you want to avoid dancing with Microsoft or Apple for your OS, WHY IN THE HELL WOULD YOU BUY A PROPRIETARY MP3 PLAYER?
That's what I don't get. Know where the devil you're dancing with has his hooks, whether they're proprietary extensions to C or a proprietary MP3 player or proprietary APIs, and don't lead the dance there. That's just daft.
The *only* advantage the iPod has from this point of view is that you can get accessories from it anywhere. You can't get docks and cradles and cases and plugin doodads for your Creative Whatever or Noname Thumbdrive, or if you do you won't be able to use them on the next model. But if you're going with Linux because you don't want to dance with Apple or Microsoft... that's the price you pay.
Because that's the biggest iPod lock-in. So here's MY one more thing... a suggestion for one of the devil's to encourage people to dance.
If Creative really wanted to take over the market from Apple this is what they'd need to do:
1. Support unencrypted AAC. Yes, the license costs a buck or so more than Microsoft's WMA, but it'll make you iTunes-plus compatible... that may not really turn out to be that useful, but it's great marketing. Add ogg and whatever Sony's format is, if it's cheap.
2. Come up with a layout of ports (power, USB, audio) that people can build adapters to, and make a binding promise not to change it for five years. It doesn't have to be a proprietary dock... it can be a fixed geometry of the power, mini-USB, and audio sockets... but it has to be something that allows a positive connection that people can just plug in to.
3. Consider giving people a development API. Consider making that an open-systems one. So people can *add* ogg if they want. Think of it as free software support, for not much cost and with automatic renewal.
iTunes is an *application* that runs on BOTH Windows and OS X. It does this checksumming on BOTH platforms. This is nothing to do with OS X. This is all in an application (iTunes) and some embedded software (on the iPod). If Apple used Linux instead of OS X on the Mac it STILL wouldn't make any difference, because this is not something that the operating system is doing.
This is like asking why Red Hat didn't include scarlet fedoras in their boxed copies of RHL. It's a non-sequitur.
If you are a windows user, use winamp, it allows you to transfer files to your ipod (among other MP3 players) and you don't have to deal with apple's ball and chain. I've got wikipedia on my ipod: http://encyclopodia.sourceforge.net/en/index.html It makes it worth carrying around.
This is just bizarre. I bought an iPhone 2 days ago. In 1 hour, I had it jailbroken, youtube fix run, unlocked, had a full bsd subsystem installed, and openssh running. I have full access to the filesystem, and I am, as I type this, setting up the toolchain to compile even more applications for it.
:(
The iphone dev team at iphone dev wiki are due most of the credit, but the fact remains that this iPhone is very hackable, and is looking to be my favorite mobile device. Now they're trying to encrypt the crap out of everthing.
Go fig.
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
iTunes 6... I see, something changed in iTunes 7. Sorry for the confusion, I switched to mac a few years back.
I had little interest in this article as I had never explored using my iPod (80GB Video) in Linux via 3rd party software, or in Windows using something other than iTunes. That said, it's a fascinating read simply because of the obvious "Fire & Ice" mentality at work.
I'd wager that a huge percentage of Slashdot users own Apple equipment, and quite a few are also Apple evangelists (or fanatics in some cases). A story that fuses technological lockdown ala DRM with a company that so many people idolise is too delicious for words.
The general responses are nothing if not predictable though - plenty of people explaining away Apples motives as "not hate for Linux users, its to stop M$! Have faith brothers & sisters!" (paraphrased) and looking forlornly for some thin justification for this move that would allow them to continue sleeping soundly at night. Apple = good, OSS = good.. surely the two can get along??
Enough pontificating though, it wouldn't surprise me that Apple would do something like this and I'm quite curious as to where people have got the notion from that they're "pro OSS", I've never got that vibe from them. Apple are the master puppetmasters really, they are in many respects just as morally ambigious as Microsoft when it comes to products & pricing - it just so happens that they're so damn good at PR that most people don't even notice.
(Incidentally I own a Macbook Pro too, and a Linux box at home, before anyone writes me off as a "M$ fanboy")
This isn't about installing Linux on the iPod, it's about syncing the iPod from Linux. Since there is no iTunes for Linux, you have to use third party apps, but now Apple has broken this. So unless you have Windows or OS X, you practically won't be able to use your iPod at all.
Why the f*ck does it matter?
Who cares about iPods on Linux? iPod is for Mac and Windows weenies.
Its' quality is not that shit and, quite frankly, is is the most restricted portable player around.
I'm amazed this shit sells so well.. Good job, Steve Blowjobs
I didn't even know Apple had a Directory Access Protocol implementation that they were selling. That's... so... uh... X.500 of them.
I wasn't going to buy their over-priced DRM bullshit anyway. This is not exactly a tragedy, or a surprise. Steve is his own worst enemy, vendor lock-in, no 3rd party apps, DRM, they would've already dominated the market true hegemony style if he would've avoided just one of these stupid things. It's like the whole Windows lesson never got learned. What a tard!
rhY
I hold very few opinions. I hold information based on observation and fact. If you wish to disagree, please use facts.
"Slashdot confirms it: the iPod is dying"
If Slashdot were that authoritive, the iPod would be dead already.
And if they don't? Your attitude really sucks, or at least the tone of your message does. Are you helping to contribute to this community or do you just take (read: leech) from it.
I don't know how your post could even be considered "insightful."
This is a great excuse to put Rockbox (http://www.rockbox.org/) on your mp3 player.
If you bought an iPod, they already have your money. iTunes is free. And Apple has long insisted that iTMS is a loss leader.
Seems just stupid, really. You know it's because Apple is being greedy.
You were mistaken. Which is odd, since memory shouldn't be a problem for you
This is what you get linux users, get used to this shit or get a real OS.
Linux sucks and u know it deep down.
I always considered apple a seller of overpriced fluff and bling gadgets, and this is one more reason not to let them part you from your cash. I've always found alternates which play better than the ipods, in fact I have a cheap samsung 4-gig device which sounds far better than any ipod I've listened to, and these work like regular USB drives.
Umm... I was just talking about how fast I thought a fix would get done, and chose to go with hyperbole.
Wow, you went and jumped to the negative, huh.
And by the way, that's a terrible attitude. Of course there are always going to be more users than contributers to projects. If the goal of open is for the only users to be contributers... well... then you're going to have a very small userbase.
"Leech" indeed.
TRHOnline - Staggering Towards Brilliance
what makes smudgy and scratchy black and white ipods so much better?
They work as advertised.
Uh you can just drag files and folders from explorer onto the "Library" heading on the left side of the program.
When will the EU sue their asses off for anti-trust violation? Isn't this a way for Apple to use their cartel on the mp3 music player market to promote their own music store & software at the expense of others? Pretty much the same thing compared to what MS is doing with its network stacks.
"Seriously, in 10 days Apple seems to have found a way to piss everyone off."
If I may put my two, million, cents in, I'm rather happy with the 9 24 inch iMacs I purchased a week ago.
--
How much was that iPod again?
Use the low-tech solution - boycott the product.
They don't see the irony that Apple has become Microsoft of the DAP market.
They can have the Double Anal Penetration market, I want no part of it!
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
Who didn't see this coming? Anyone trying to encode 640x480 h.264 videos for playback on the iPod/AppleTV certainly did, as they've left the format completely undocumented, require a stupid arbitrary UUID atom to be there or iTunes won't copy it to the player, and perhaps even worse, iTunes imposes other restrictions on the encoding options that hobble the quality, yet such files play fine on the iPod hardware, you are just forced to use a 3rd party app to copy such files over.
http://lists.mplayerhq.hu/pipermail/ffmpeg-devel/2006-September/015930.html
IMHO, everyone should load up the RockBox firmware on their iPods, and tell Apple to screw themselves and their proprietary lockout nonsense, before they try to stop people from upgrading their firmware, too. As an added bonus, you are then able to use higher quality and open/patent-free audio formats (Ogg Vorbis/MPC Musepack).
Slashdot gets worse every day... Pipedot: News for nerds, without the corporate slant
Im an Apple user, but I dont approve of this course of action at all. Ive been dissapointed by the lack of quality in the apple updates recently. I use linux regularly on my second machine and it holds great promise as an alternate OS and I want to be able to do anything on it that I do on my Mac or when I have to use Windows. I hope that the linux hackers can figure this out cause I really like Songbird.
Looks like some competition for offtopic posts. Here is mine.
My iriver H320 and H10 works fine too - after 3 and 2 year respectively (i.e. 5 yrs total).
Next you will tell me what's the size of your dick. I am a girl, and you win. Now go fuck yourself.
Well, they just lost another customer... I thought if I buy something, I completely own it and can do whatever I want with it... Apparently Apple doesn't believe that. Too bad as I was having plans to head for Apple store... not anymore though.
This is the kind of mean spirited greedy behaviour that we see all the time from Apple. Jobs is no friend to Linux or opensource.
For instance, Safari is based on the KDE web browser Konquerer. Apple took a GPL'ed software that a bunch of volunteers had created in their spare time and given away for everyone to use, and created their own browser from it. Now they have turned around and released Safari for Windows but they have not released a version that is opensource or that will even run on any GPL'ed operating system. Apple takes but does not give back.
The fan boys will tell you it is because there are so many Linux's out there. Bull! Google doesn't have any problem creating a Google Earth that will run on any Linux.
I didn't even know old ipods could be synced in Linux.
Is this done in iTunes for Linux?
Same battle, different hill...
Step one: Release something with an unbreakable code! They won't steal from us!
Step two: A 14 year old disabled kid in Sri-Lanka has not only broke the code, but optimized it's use.
Step three: A new, unbreakable code is installed.
Step four: A homeless man in Montreal breaks the code while sipping coffee.
Step five: Never, ever, EVER under any circumstances consider there to be breakable codes, and go back to step one.
Really, not Linux friendly, not cheap, and trying to limit their customer base....why not buy the competition? All you'd loose is the "cool", and that doesn't pay the bills...
--- For a good time mail uce@ftc.gov
You waited until somebody pointed out that you were using your not-in-karma-hell account, then used the "correction" as an excuse to keep flogging the Vista dead horse. It's perfect. You can deny that you're Twitter, promote your crazy bullshit, and have plausible deniability, all at the same time!
(just ignore the fact that the replies in your second link do a good job of proving that you ARE twitter)
(also ignore the fact that linking to that journal entry has fuck all to do with your sockpuppetry)
(also ignore the paranoid schizophrenic rant where you cry about being mod-bombed, yet admit that you'd create sockpuppet accounts.)
...that Apple did it because they were stupid, not malicious.
Apple isn't stupid. You can bet that this move was carefully considered and motivated by the bottom line. I agree that they probably aren't concerned that much with locking out Linux users, but you can bet that they are concerned about free tools that access the contest of the device.
Very glad I sold off my ipods and picked up the cowon players. Sure their interface isn't quite as slick but it functions and have great sound and work great
>>Quit being so damned disingenious! What OTHER ways do you want to add songs to your iTunes library!!!????
Fuck you too. I dont want to add fucking songs to my itunes or whatever crap it is. I want to add songs to my music player. Can I drag and drop it? NO? Then shove your itunes in your ass and get the fuck out of here. You Apple fanobois make me puke on ever post of yours.
They can have the Double Anal Penetration market, I want no part of it!
Dude, I'm a pretty sick bastard, and your comment sickened me. I admire that.Am I supposed to (group)hate @pple or not?!
meh.
try it, it works quite well.. in the olden days and even now I can do this to get the ipod to load its own contents onto my hard drive :-)
"Jazz isn't dead, it just smells funny" ~Frank Zappa
EdelFactor
It works as a standard usb storage device, you copy the songs and it updates its internal database automatically. This works with every operating system that supports usb.
You can use that mtp protocol too so you can synchronize with windows media player, winamp or countless other products.
There was nothing sick about GP's comment. It was just plain funny. As for yourself - sounds like you are not a sick bastard at all, in fact wimpy dork is the term that comes to mind.
Dozens of others play music just as well (or better). Why this insane fixation of Apple? Why do you all have to have iPods, and hack them, and curse with them, and endlessly whine about their lousiness and proprietariness? It's just crazy. If it gives you problems, just throw it away and buy something decent instead.
You be sure to tell that to all their customers. Because oddly enough, the overwhelming majority of those millions of people don't seem to have these problems you report.
Worry not, friend! Apple will fix this bug in the next iPhone revision.
No it is easier to just...
/gag
Use another product. Creative Zen (especially Ms) are very nice, have better screens and natively play XVid, MP3, WMA, etc without having to convert.
Nothing better than just dropping songs or movies on a Zen and going, instead of using an iPod with iTunes and waiting for and hoping it can convert your movies or audio to the crApple format...
Where are the Apple hates DRM posts? Oh wait, Apple is just once again proving they are the King of DRM, hardware, software, and even their store.
So glad they are so 'open' and accepted on a OSS site like SlashDot.
Strange that the Zune and Windows Plays for Sure technology doesn't have any inherent required DRM, and only uses it if the online provider requires it, letting users drag and drop audio and movies to their devices via the File System or any program the user chooses. So where is the MS OSS love for their more 'open' device formats?
Hey, of course this move is moraly discussable, but is it even legal? Most countries (if not all) says "you can't write viruses" because that's destructive in various ways. But I've heard that the opposite is more or like encouraged: if there's a way of updating, fixing or adding features that all benefits the user - then of course you can! Therefore: if Apple adds software (or hardware) that disables earlier functionality and spoils proper use of a device, it should actually be classed as a virus! Be sure to right me if I'm totally wrong, though..
There are 2 types of people in the world - those who understand decimal and those who don't.
Don't like iTunes? Don't use it.
You Apple haters are such a bunch of whiny sissies. iTunes is for those people that WANT to manage their music, that WANT to have a well-organized library of songs and that WANT to sync their MP3-player as easily as just plugging it in.
If you want to do it the hard way, i.e. having to manually add songs to your player everytime, as well as maintaining your songs in whatever software you use, be my guest. Just don't go crying to all of us who'd rather LISTEN to our music than looking through our harddrives trying to FIND it first.
Blog -
Nokia rules.... Apple is becoming wormy.
Meanwhile, Apple have their own un-licensable DRM system, they lock their OS up so it can't be used on other computers, and now they've blocked everyone but them from writing to an iPod. Who is acting poorly here? Normally I'd object pretty strongly to any sort of enforced tie ins like this, but when competing against MS and while it is clear the Justice department will do nothing to stop their abuses, Apple and all other companies competing with them are in a very bad spot. Two wrongs don't make a right, but anything that stops MS from becoming the sole gatekeeper for DRM and all media within the next decade sounds like something we really, really need. And make no mistake, if not for Apple's iPod and Apple leveraging it, WMP would be the format for almost all legal music on the internet and MS would be taking a cut of it and preparing to stop said music from playing on Linux and other OS's altogether How are Apple in a bad spot? They own a more than significant percentage of the MP3 player market which Microsoft failed to break into. Oh, and WMP isn't a media format, it's a media player, a media player that unlike iTunes can be extended with various codecs to play whatever media you like. You're talking about WMA, which again was late to market and overshadowed by everything else.
Your entire post is kind of pathetic - you ignore all of Apple's major abuses of their customer's freedom in order to make some lame point about a company completely unrelated to the discussion, and to top it all off your point doesn't even scan.
That's great - I can't actually code, so am I now banned from using Open Source software for being a leech?
"It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him." - Tolkien
Probably because the UI is so good it doens't need an alternative OS. But hey, nothing stops you from trying yourself!
I own a Mac and I have to say that OS X is a very nice OS. The reason that it is a nice OS is all the open source programs Apple included in it to make it such. Just to name a few gcc, any of the shells and GNU tar. Apple seems to take what they want from open source and shun the open source community. Until this approach changes they are little more than parasites on open sources back side as far as I am concerned.
*shrug* the fact that I can (and did) buy a product from Creative that does the same thing without trying to tie my hands down because I'm a dirty dirty pirate.
Fanboi opinions have nothing to do with it, the attitude "here ya go, this does what you want it to do. what's that? no, you don't want it to do that, that could lead to you being naughty" doesn't float well with me.
Can you imagine a car (slashdot's favorite analogy topic!) that somehow stopped you from having alcohol in it? I mean if you can't even put a bottle of gin in the trunk because you might be trying to drink and drive? Would you thank Ford for offering you such a cool product? Probably not, you'd probably be pissed that they think you're such a damn twinky. It's the same thing with the ipod.
That's why I won't be an apple customer for a long time, assuming I'm a damn criminal of some sort isn't the best way to draw in my business.
We actually don't know if it's a SHA-1 hash or a Whirlpool hash or a weird 20/40-byte CRC signature, or what the hell it is really. We assume it's a SHA-1 because it's the most common hash that dumps 20-byte values. They have no way of knowing it hashes anything with a serial number or anything really, we just know the database has two new 20-byte entries.
I'd assume on Monday we'll have some kind of answer from Apple themselves on what the hell this actually is. And well, if we don't, then we'll have the answer anyways (their silence alone will be the answer).
"Victory means exit strategy, and it's important for the President to explain to us what the exit strategy is." G.W.Bush
So someone created a blog, made an entry and posted it to slashdot, so it has to be true! I read about it on the internet!
I never understood the iPod hype. Overpriced hardware with overpriced downloads from iTunes. I enjoy 'another' service that let's me pay a flat $15 / mo so that I can download unlimited music on up to three subscription-based MP3 players.
Well. Get a used iPod 5 and / or install Rockbox. Death to proprietary crap!
open (SIG, "</dev/zero"); $sig = <SIG>; close SIG;
I have a better idea. How about you just stop buying Apple products? These days, I would take MS over Apple any day of the week. Even better, I can pick neither one of them and rest easy at night. Going to the Apple world is like entering someone's personal fiefdom. Sure, Apple might not control the entire market, but once you step into the Apple world they control just about every single aspect of that world. If you want a single company in control of all of your electronics, go with Apple and get your iBook, iPhone, iTunes, and iPod. Your products will certainly play nice with each other, even if they don't play nice with anyone else. If nothing else, you will easily fall into the shiny white plastic aesthetic of Apple and find that Apple marketers will work tirelessly to make you feel cool for doing it. That said, I feel that I can survive without a team of marketers making sure that my gadgets make me feel cool.
I'll take the chaos and diversity of the city over Apple's quiet little aesthetically pleasing, shiny white, gated suburban community.
Is all the companies that think they should be able to control hardware they SELL you. Sorry, but if I bought it, I should be able to do whatever I damn please with it. It is astonishing to me that our legislatures can't figure out this simple bit of elementary logic. The only explanation is that they're brains are befuddled by the bribes they are taking from companies like Apple and the various telecoms.
It's too bad people have become so complacent that most won't fight this trend. Think what would happen if a substantial portion of the public agreed simply not to purchase any items that lock out features? We'd see an almost instantaneous change in corporate attitudes.
I'm tired of purchasing cell phones where the telecom company turns off features and then tries to charge me to get those features back. I won't do it anymore. The next phone I get, will be one that is unlocked, or I will do without.
I also find it amazing that people slavishly run out to purchase ipods when there are better MP3 players out there for far less. The main effect the ipod has had is to increase cost of all the players, since Apple showed it need not compete on cost.
The kind of exclusive marketing agreements that allow Apple to thrive, at the expense of all the companies who established the market for mp3 players in the first place, is another example of how our country is broken. It's another way that companies establish monopolies, which are illegal. Unfortunately, we have an executive branch that is more concerned with the political loyalty of U.S. Attorneys rather than whether or not they are doing their jobs by prosecuting corporations that engage in illegal monopolistic and unfair trade practices.
We need better. Our children deserve better. Vote with your pocket book against companies that behave this way and turn out to vote against the politicians who make it possible for companies to do this without fear of government sanction.
-All that is gold does not glitter - Tolkien
www.ra
It's perfect. You can deny that you're Twitter, promote your crazy bullshit, and have plausible deniability, all at the same time!
Then again, it's possible that you are just crazy as well as irritating.
I told you that I would taunt you a third time. Check out my new home page, and be taunted again and again. Everyone without a url should use the Vista Failure Log, bad Vista or similar to send a message to you clowns and the world at large.
DMCA, Hollings, Palladium. What might have sounded like paranoia is now common sense.
I didn't know that a device's inability to have Linux easily installed on it made it "defective by design"? Wow... I better get rid of my washer, dryer, toaster, oven, microwave, plasma TV set, and a whole slew of other electronic devices in my home then! Who knew!?
No, the issue is that the iPod is now defective by design, as Apple has now DRM'd the database the iPod uses to know what songs it has on it. Only iTunes knows how to properly create this database, so Linux users are now locked out as they can't run iTunes. Furthermore, Windows and Mac users are now forced to use iTunes to sync their iPods, which is probably Apple's motivation for this move (locking out Linux entirely is just a side effect).
I have a friend who was going to purchase 8 of these things for xmas gifts. That news just cost Apple the sale as most in his family are Linux users.
Oh well, not that Apple cares. They're happy with their 3% (or whatever) market share and the profits they make and really don't give a wet slap about more profit from the Linux crowd.
. Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
Yes because so many people who are looking to put unix on the device want to run pocket PC.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." --Albert Einstein
There is another way to do this. I prefer to create my own directory for my music collection (rather than use a default directory like "My Music") to make it easy to keep track of my music. This also ensures that only the music I want will be loaded into iTunes, and any files I add from other locations are copied to that directory while leaving the original untouched.
I recently had to move my music collection to a new hard drive. All I had to do was delete the music file list in iTunes (without deleting the actual files), and then change the location of my music folder in iTunes. It automatically added all of my music in to iTunes. A few minutes later all of my music ready for use. It was a easy and seamless operation.
I appear to be in the minority, but overall I like iTunes, mainly because it makes accomplishing just about any music task, from ripping CDs, to burning music CDs, to the mass update of music information, extremely easy. In my experience it's been the easiest program I've found so far for these tasks.
All that this long, boring (and mostly emotional) thread proves is that your average geek does not understand basic design principles (which is hardly news).
- The fact that a music player doesn't support a particular encoding or file format is not a "design-flaw" unless the market for the device is asking for it. They aren't. The iPod supports all popular file formats.
- The fact that a music player makes you install a particular software to use it is not a "design-flaw" unless there is some other kind of popular software that the people who buy the thing want to use that they are being locked out of. There isn't. There simple is no army of users clamoring to use another software product to fill their iPod.
- The fact that audio quality may be less than some hypothetical ideal is only a "design-flaw" if people (the "market" again), can detect it with their own ears. They cannot. Despite many opinions to the contrary, it has been proven time and again that even the average audiophile cannot always tell the difference between lossless and lossy formats, let alone the difference between audio chips used in a device. You may think you can, but it's an illusion.
- The fact that the battery is not replaceable is only a "design-flaw" if the average user needs to replace the battery before they are finished with the device. They don't. The vast majority of the time the battery in an iPod lasts longer than the lifetime of the iPod.
In short, the iPod is an extremely well-designed hardware/software combination that sells gangbusters because it's simply the best design out there.
I also find this entire thread to be a complete pissy rant in that all that we actually *know* at this point is that the format of the DB has changed and that it's temporarily locking out other software. The thread however seems wholly based on the unspoken assumption that Apple has certain (necessarily "evil") motivations for this. People are posting all over the place about what they "know" about Apple's motivations when in fact they know nothing at all about them.
Most people also seem to be getting ridiculously emotional about things not yet even proven as fact. You don't know why Apple has done this, or if it's at the behest of their partners or anything at all really beyond the simple technical discovery mentioned. It's just wild and very emotionally based speculation from a small minority of Linuxy geeks about things not even really in evidence.
In addition, the people complaining here are not the people who buy the iPods in the first place so how valid are their complaints? It's like someone who has never owned, bought or driven a car complaining about Volkswagon's use of a certain fuel injector in their latest model.
How about we wait more than ten seconds after the discovery of the technical reality, before we start attributing motivations and conspiracies to people we don't even know, who made decisions that we are not party to?
Or is that too mature?
Apple does not deserve it.
Which is exactly why I didn't follow the hive down the iPod path. Apple products for me usually have the same effect, and the iphone did too until all the details came out.
I remember seeing the first Ipod commercials, I was watching it thinking, it's about time a mainstream company came out with a compact mp3 player, and I can't wait till they have a windows version.
Then in a few years they had an Ipod for windows, and when I looked into it versus the competition, I already had an RCA Lyra player, which was, arguably, in some ways a POS, but it was also 100 bucks when I bought it for 20gb, a bargain for the time, and it worked.
When the time came to buy my next MP3 player I did the research, the Ipod was among those I researched. And I got the same thing from the sites, Ipod is awesome! Ipod is great for usability. But what they also let out of the bag was that Ipod used proprietary protocols for transferring MP3s to the thing and that it tried to get you to use Itunes, which I wasn't prepared to do now, having already used a player that functions just as a straight hard drive in windows. So I ended up buying an archos gmini 402 with it's extensive feature set and relatively low price. I was impressed with the results and I lost none of my freedom in the exchange, I can use it on linux, mac, PC, whatever supports a USB disk basically. Same thing with the lyra. I've always heard the hive saying "yes, but you can use players on linux, they support ipod." In the back of my mind I had this thought. Ipod support on Linux and alternative platforms had never been promised because of the way ipods worked, and honestly, it was kind of a hack that they reverse engineered the ipod's functionality and got it to work. I understand why they did it, because Ipods are popular. You know what's great about the players I bought? They don't HAVE to be popular to work. Nobody has to reverse engineer anything.
I thought about getting an Iphone, then I heard they were locking out 3rd party development, that they didn't really have flash or javascript support in the browser, etc. I figured that it would be the same, and it is. People think that because they can hack a device to do something, it's part of its feature set. Nobody remembers that since the platform is locked, you are one patch away from no longer being able to use the things you wanted to put on your iphone. It doesn't matter that the device CAN do things if Apple doesn't let it.
I hope one day the time comes when someone releases an MP3 player with wifi support, with video support, with a flashable OS and a Linux base. One that truly doesn't try to keep the 3rd party, which tends to develop additional features for free, away from the platform. A truly open PMP with wifi access that you can write anything for. A computer in the palm of your hand.
It seems like there's too much money in lock down for a company like Apple to resist once they got the ball rolling. For the people who say "yes, but the support for MP3 players on Mac is going against the stream" I say, at least you have support. You have support for all the platforms you want. I'm not a big fan of creative either because of their tendency to lock you out. I just want a PMP that connects like a HD to the PC, there's no reason why there needs to be a weird protocol. That's why despite style and despite the hive I've gone the opposite way of Ipod. People need to make PMPs as open and useful as general computers, and that's when you'll see a platform truly florish. That's when you'll truly have what we are all sort of seeking: a computer in the palm of our hand.
Judges and senates have been bought for gold; Esteem and love were never to be sold.
Except that Apple acts nothing like MS (using industry standards instead of creating their own, not being a monopoly and using it illegally to prop up their business), and makes products that actually *work* the way they're meant to for most people.
SFTU, dipshit, you're adding nothing to the discussion. Your whining is louder than any fanatic.
Creative Zen
There would be a great uproar about it but slashdotters can't connect their ipods to their linux boxen atm to alter the OS.
Arguing with an engineer is like wrestling a pig in mud. Soon, you realize the pig is dirty, and he likes it.
If any hacker were to frack them up, this is the perfect device, much like dvd/hdvd/iphone.
They have two attack points, from windows or macosx to experiment with. Maybe apple still uese 68k code
in itunes for non speed related things just so its harder to reverse engineer and trace.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
I believe you mean "that work the way most people with an open, nonpartisan mind would expect", just like the way the bashrc file is set up for you when you install cygwin. Choices made for you by someone else in the preferences or behaviour, which, more often than not, you find were the 'right' choices and you appreciate the effort of someone else having the forethought.
Microsoft got it's wrist slapped for bundling IE with Windows. Now Apple is bundling iTunes with iPods, and requires you to use iTunes to make your iPod work as advertised. Isn't this the exact same thing, and illegal?
da w00t. mtfnpy?
Pocket PC implies an OS not an application.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe." --Albert Einstein
This is the last straw!
The Linux community will not be buying any iPods after this!
This really will hurt Apple and they WILL be sorry.
Everyone I know who uses Linux on their personal computers will be following suit and NEITHER of them is likely to yield on this point!
I'm willing to bet that from now on, their quarterly revenues will be several thousand dollars less than what they would have been otherwise. . .
Should we go to the next story now? . . . OK then.
-- My apologies if the above facts contain any opinions, or vice versa! --
The OSX operating system is very open source and very hacakable. iPods are different. Different product. Different market.
Where are the complaints about the difficulties of hacking toasters, watches, cell phones, or cars? Get a grip folks.
And Apple *is* a supporter of OSS, but not necessarily Free Software. I wonder where Linux would be without all the freely available work Apple has done on drivers? But I doubt Apple will open source all of the software they have sunk a few BILLION dollars into. I'm thinking they may want to make some money somewhere.
And how much digital content has Linux freed up? I never hear about their negotiations with the big media companies. What's the URL of the Linnux Music Store?
By the way, you can load any MP3 into iTunes and onto your iPod. It is not a locked down platform. And AAC is an open, non-proprietary standard. It's the DRM part that's proprietary (otherwise it wouldn't BE DRM, get it?) If it didn't have DRM, the labels wouldn't let them sell the music for $0.99, right? If you want to, you can buy the non DRMed AACs from iTunes MS for a bit more (if the labels are willing to allow it.)
Me? I prefer to buy CDs.
-- My apologies if the above facts contain any opinions, or vice versa! --
That is not for everyone, apparently. Some people want to dismantle what works and maybe change it around so that it works in some other way. I have no idea why, but there it is.
So in a way I think the iPod might not be the right product for someone who believes using a computer should involve hours of tinkering and hacking, and who doesn't want to spend a dime on music, software, services etc. If this image fits you, at least partially, then there is a whole world market with hundreds of other personal music players out there.
(I have a lot of sumpathy for Linux users, and I love the idea of free software. But I am a Mac OS X user myself since I feel life is much too short, we will all be old or dead soon, I have a million things I want to do during my very short lifetime, and I think tinkering with an operating system is the most time-consuming, boring, useless wank in history.)
Don't bemoan the iPod being a vendor lock-in, or that you can't run Rockbox on it, because there are other options. As dear old Mark Mothersbaugh would say: "Use your freedom of choice."
Cheers, Cannelloni
Beauty is in the beholder of the eye.
Or isn't it? Do we have any confirmation but the one and only entry in a recently created blog?
Lars T.
To the guy who modded me down from perfect to terrible Karma - Apple haters still suck
They did not break the iPod backup tools. You can read the database. You just can't write to it.
http://amarok.kde.org/blog/archives/496-iPod-Classic-Will-Be-Supported.html
In spite of your company not providing support for us, Linux users, I have been an iPod user since you introduced the iPod Nano and got also an iPod shuffle, I have also recommended to friends iPod Video and given iPod machines as presents.
I did buy and recommend your players because you took an attitude of not bothering us if we could make work the player with unsupported software, which as far as I was concerned was fair enough.
But since the iPod nano 2nd generation, and it seems, with the newest iPod models, you have decided to take a hostile attitude towards people that do not wish to use the iTunes store and/or that wishes to use different software to organize their iPods by means of encrypting who knows what and why in order to lock everybody out of their iPods unless they use iTunes. Just last week I was in your store in Regent Street in London marveling at the new iPod nano's solid technology and design, but then stopping myself to buy it by the perennial question: will it work with Linux? After the experiences of new buyers attest, this does not seem to the case, and although I am sure the user community will come with solutions I am simply just tired of forking my money with no hope of ever been acknowledged as a user that deserves to be heard.
I became a client of yours fully knowing that you did not intend to make an effort for my custom, but now that you are clearly showing me you don't want to deal with me I take heed and vow never to buy another music player from you, which is after all what I think you want anyway.
The bundling of the device so closely with a shop makes it look very anticompetitive as well, a matter that I am sure many of us will bring to the attention of bodies like the European Comission and consumer advocates organizations.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Let them know that you are fed up with all this lock down and then buy something else in the future.
The iPods are great pieces of kit, that is why many of us were prepared to use them in spite of their shortcomings, but now that Apple is sending a message of "fuck off" in no uncertain terms, well , it is time to take heed and take our costume where it will be appreciated.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
... only if you use Apple software. Jobs realized that if iTunes had any chance of success they had to target MS operating systems, but they did so in typical Apple fashion: instead of creating a platform neutral interface to the shop they created their iTunes gated garden. This has nothing to do with hating Apple, this is a fact that shows the eternal mentality of this company.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
You don't have to select neither, that is non mandatory information.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Before I get on with the Nokia N800, I'll give a little feedback on Apples latest move. Sounds like a Sony Mini Disc/Sony Connect store move to me. If you don't know what I mean by that then here's a quick run down. With Sony's Mini Disc you can only move songs you have ripped or purchased to the one device from the one original computer. You can not move songs from that same computer to another device, or move the songs from that one device to another computer. On top of that, you have to use Sony's software in order to do so. Anything else added to it not using Sony software was used as mass storage and unrecognized by the firmware. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what it sounds like Apple is trying to do per: http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3059&Itemid=1 . While it may not be the exact same (I don't know as I don't own a new iPod. I have an old one, but haven't used it for a bit as I have my PSP and N800 that can do the same and more). In case you are wondering how things turned out for Sony... They will be closing the Sony Connect store by end of this year, or beginning of next year (granted they never got as big as Apple has with the iPod, and the Mini Disk never caught on, but I think it goes to say that people like freedom to do what they want with what they purchased). All of Sony's new players now feature full support for MP3 ;)
:) I use it for GPS, Music, Movies, Casual Games, Internet, Planning, Organizing, Phone (whenever I'm at a hot spot, which is almost always. Just in case, I leave a Pay as you go phone in the car console.), Chatting, Carman (via Bluetooth I can diagnose my car if a Warning light comes on), and the list goes on.
:) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N800 -
On to my reply... I considered an iPhone, but then came across the N800. I was sold in a second with the interface, flexibility of what you can do with it, software and hardware, the design, features, etc. It is my all in one now
While this is not a dedicated media player, it is a UMPC that is almost the size of an iPod. The casing is made of aluminum and is black on bottom, silver on top. It also includes a built in adjustable stand that forms to the body for watching movies, browsing the internet etc. There is an app. called Canola that has a beautiful and simple interface for your movies, music, and photos. I picked mine up from Dell, but they also sell them in CompUSA (if you're in the U.S., check out Nokia's official website for other countries). Cost = $399.00, if you don't want to spend that, you can pick up the predecessor called the Nokia 770 for $130-150 (Here's a pic of my buddies 770 running the latest version of Maemo on it: http://troseph.homelinux.com/Site/Blog/0FA20D29-A1B4-4E63-9E72-3194689DF333.html) The background and theme that is on there is the default theme, and you can change the theme and background. Specs (curtsey of Wikipedia and the back of the box. Check out the pic. displayed, that's my N800 posted
OS: Slimmed down version of Debian Linux that runs NATIVELY on the system called Maemo (www.maemo.org).
- Browser is Opera and there is a Firefox browser available called MicroB. Web pages are viewed at full width without scrolling (for most pages anyways), due to the beautiful resolution. As a note, the screen looks as good as my PSP slim IMO.
- The N800 supports Flash 9 and Skype internet calls as of July 6, 2007, which allows users to better browse YouTube videos, and
play online flash games, as well as making free internet calls to other Skype-enabled devices.
Input: 4.1 inches (widescreen), 800x480 at 224dpi resolution, touch screen interface
Connectivity: IEEE 802.11 b/
I posted this as a Reply above, but thought it would be beneficial to those who don't want to dig down on links... This is my alternative for an iPod and even an iPhone :) Enjoy!
Before I get on with the Nokia N800, I'll give a little feedback on Apples latest move. Sounds like a Sony Mini Disc/Sony Connect store move to me. If you don't know what I mean by that then here's a quick run down. With Sony's Mini Disc you can only move songs you have ripped or purchased to the one device from the one original computer. You can not move songs from that same computer to another device, or move the songs from that one device to another computer. On top of that, you have to use Sony's software in order to do so. Anything else added to it not using Sony software was used as mass storage and unrecognized by the firmware. Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's what it sounds like Apple is trying to do per: http://www.fudzilla.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=3059&Itemid=1 . While it may not be the exact same (I don't know as I don't own a new iPod. I have an old one, but haven't used it for a bit as I have my PSP and N800 that can do the same and more). In case you are wondering how things turned out for Sony... They will be closing the Sony Connect store by end of this year, or beginning of next year (granted they never got as big as Apple has with the iPod, and the Mini Disk never caught on, but I think it goes to say that people like freedom to do what they want with what they purchased). All of Sony's new players now feature full support for MP3 ;)
On to my reply... I considered an iPhone, but then came across the N800. I was sold in a second with the interface, flexibility of what you can do with it, software and hardware, the design, features, etc. It is my all in one now :) I use it for GPS, Music, Movies, Casual Games, Internet, Planning, Organizing, Phone (whenever I'm at a hot spot, which is almost always. Just in case, I leave a Pay as you go phone in the car console.), Chatting, Carman (via Bluetooth I can diagnose my car if a Warning light comes on), and the list goes on.
While this is not a dedicated media player, it is a UMPC that is almost the size of an iPod. The casing is made of aluminum and is black on bottom, silver on top. It also includes a built in adjustable stand that forms to the body for watching movies, browsing the internet etc. There is an app. called Canola that has a beautiful and simple interface for your movies, music, and photos. I picked mine up from Dell, but they also sell them in CompUSA (if you're in the U.S., check out Nokia's official website for other countries). Cost = $399.00, if you don't want to spend that, you can pick up the predecessor called the Nokia 770 for $130-150 (Here's a pic of my buddies 770 running the latest version of Maemo on it: http://troseph.homelinux.com/Site/Blog/0FA20D29-A1B4-4E63-9E72-3194689DF333.html) The background and theme that is on there is the default theme, and you can change the theme and background. Specs (curtsey of Wikipedia and the back of the box. Check out the pic. displayed, that's my N800 posted :) - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/N800 -
OS: Slimmed down version of Debian Linux that runs NATIVELY on the system called Maemo (www.maemo.org).
- Browser is Opera and there is a Firefox browser available called MicroB. Web pages are viewed at full width without scrolling (for most pages anyways), due to the beautiful resolution. As a note, the screen looks as good as my PSP slim IMO.
- The N800 supports Flash 9 and Skype internet calls as of July 6, 2007, which allows users to better browse YouTube videos, and
play online flash games, as well as making free internet calls to other Skyp
I was right. http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/09/17/135205
TRHOnline - Staggering Towards Brilliance
Project manage, bug test, QA, GOYA* * Get off your ass
They don't have to care.
But why the fuck should they care about putting QA money into making sure a non-supported OS doesn't work? This isn't accidental -- they are deliberately trying not to interoperate here, when it would have been cheaper and easier just to leave everything the way it was.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
I was going to send you a private message, but I honestly can't figure out how to do that. So let me ask you since you recommended the N800. How would you say it fairs as far as battery life when using the media player. I'm not so much interested in video playing but in music? I'd like something to replace my current archos gmini 402 with a wifi connection built-in. I'm really looking for a UMPC with more storage, but I think if I bought a 8gb, that would be okay for music per trip. So how would you say it fairs for battery life listening to music? Because the competition that it has right now in my mind is the Archos 605 wifi, which is mainly a media player but also a closed platform (but it allows installation of opera and has a bigger HD). Do you think if I can meet the space constraints that I can replace the archos as my media player for work usage?
Judges and senates have been bought for gold; Esteem and love were never to be sold.
I haven't tested the battery life for media yet, but I'll give it a try and post back. Per the following reviewer, they got 7+ hours just playing music: http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=13056 There are some good pics in the review as well. I usually browse the internet for 2 hours, take notes for 4 hours and listen to music for 2 hours and that lasts me all day at work. I'll turn on music and let it play all day tomorrow to see how long it lasts. Hopefully this helps. :)
I'd appreciate that, thanks.
Judges and senates have been bought for gold; Esteem and love were never to be sold.
I have over 14,000 songs, and the only slow downs I run into are adding files over a network share for the first time. My box was near top of the line - when I got in 2004. Issues with extremely large collections can usually be fixed by turning off smart playlists which automatically update.