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XP Service Pack Does the Impossible
Peyna writes "This article over at C|net discusses the upcoming Microsoft Windows XP service pack, which will contain the normal bug fixes, but more importantly, will make XP more modular, allowing you to override their default products. I assume this means Internet Explorer and possibly some other apps as well."
Now maybe I'll consider installing XP, since it won't be so damned bloated, and I can choose what I want.
WWJD.... for a Klondike bar?
As in, you can remove all of windows as one big module?
-Michael Roy Some people are like Slinkies. Not really useful, but you can't help smiling when you see one tumble down
Alright!
fear of law suits billy ?
What ? Me, worry ?
I saw some pigs just fly past my window...
I thought they said this was unpossible!
But XP needs Internet Explorer! It won't work without it.
It was me, I did it, I moved your cheese
I picture bill gates as the left leg of the giant cat robot thingy.
Some of the more significant changes, such as those allowing consumers and PC makers to override Microsoft's default products, are a direct response to the continuing antitrust case against the Redmond, Wash.-based company.
...they swore they were doing nothing wrong.
This service pack almost sounds like an admission of guilt to me. Are they doing this out of goodwill...or fear?
I am the evil aardvark!
wakilisha kenya
import kenyan.geek.* ;
Windows is actually modular enough to allow people to add their own apps. I'm amazed!
The next thing Microsoft will tell me is that the sky is blue.
This is my opinion. To make sure you don't steal it, it's covered by the DMCA.
Piracy prevention, perhaps?
Insert mandatory joke involving jackets and hell freezing over.
First post.
ry to reply to other people comments instead of starting new threads. Read other people's messages before posting your own to avoid simply duplicating what has already been said. Use a clear subject that describes what your message is about.
I thought this was impossible! Microsoft said so!!
Woohooo!!!
I'ss about time M$ windows becomes more modular
Why can't you use any space to actually tell what the story is?
Using tabloid headlines to take cheapshots is just sad and pathetic, really.
SIG:Slashdot: indymedia for nerds.
What on Earth?
Is this the result of a court order, or is Microsoft actually trying to do something about their (bad) reputation as a psychotic monopolistic company?
Ford's releasing a kit for its newest Taurus allows you to easily install a Toyota or other competitors engine or transmission!
Does it mean they're losing their case against State ATTY's General? I hope so.
Ms is evil They will never open source anything
Well at least I can run kde on osx!!!!!!!!!!
We all know they did it to please the courts but now if there was a modular version of office that allowed us to rip the windows part out of the bottem.
Oh, it's still bloated. IE, OE, Messenger, etcetera aren't uninstalled, most likely because XP still depends on their DLLs. It seems like you could accomplish nearly the same thing by deleting the relevant icons from the Start menu...
This is what I've been waiting for. I didn't install Win2k till the serivce packs came out. Now i can feel more comfortable with installing XP when the service pack comes out.
thelikesofwhich.com
I'm sure a read a story this morning which said they were only 'hidden', not removed.
So, are the core IE executables/DLLs actually deleted from the disk? Or are the just disabled?
They're allowing some of their apps to be hidden or made not the default, not removed completely.
It amazes me how incredibly clever Microsoft is as they twist words. They go by the letter of the law, not the spirit, and we all suffer.
4 23.html
This is a very enlightening article, I think:
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25
I honestly wish I were clever enough to use their own tactics against them, but looking at how difficult the courts have made it, it seems impossible. How do we keep them from doing this to us over and over again?
It sounds to me like the update is really just allowing Windows to be shipped with third party applications links on the desktop. I guess Microsofts packaging tools used to remove these links (which would suck no doubt) and part of SP1 will change that "functionality".
:-)
. asp and take a long hard look at some of the cool shit MS is doing.
As for it making Windows more modular - thats a load of crap. I love how the editors and the submitters around here intentionally embelish just so they can get more pageviews and comments. Oh well I guess they suceeded today...
Whats really going to rock in SP1 for XP is the new Mira technology stuff. If you dont know what that is - I suggest you cruise on over to http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/mira_preview
J
I love idealists not because I am one, but because they make life bearable for pragmatists such as myself.
Quoting:
Fascinating.I assume this means Internet Explorer and possibly some other apps as well.
When you assume, you make an ass out of you and me.
No, just the screen is blue ;-)
It mentions are which components are replaceable:
IE,
Outlook Express,
Messenger,
Windows Media Player
JVM.
There will be 4 configuration options: (from the article)"You can have the Microsoft option, the original machine configuration (i.e. what the OEM decided it would ship you, but this is going to be most obviously applicable to new machines shipped by OEMs post-SP1 release), a non-Microsoft option that allows you to substitute non-Microsoft middleware, and custom configuration."
Wait a minute... didn't the Micro$oft guys just testify under oath that this couldn't be done?
I'll bet they're holding lotteries in the Federal Pen right now to see who gets to be Bill Gate's boyfriend.
Don't anthropomorphize computers, they don't like it.
This SP does NOT make Windows more modular. It simply is a convenient interface to override default applications.
You can't uninstall IE or its libraries - they still will load on startup. What you can do is associate URLs to Moz or whatever.
This can all be done now, just not very conveniently for the average user. All the SP adds is a Control Panel applet to facilitate the association changing.
Marc
I don't think it will actually allow you to remove IE, but, rather, make Windows more flexible in letting you choose your browser in more situations. Windows Help and stuff will still need to be rendered by IE, so components of it will probably always be a part of Windows. It is a step in the right direction, but, IMHO, it isn't as great as you might think it will be.
Karma: Excellent (fuck, even in the future moderation doesn't work!)
beth i hear u callin....
From the Cnet article:
Another change seeks to curb about 90 percent of Windows XP piracy. Microsoft introduced Product Activation with the operating system, which uses a numeric key to lock the software to the hardware. But code stolen from a large Microsoft customer allowed rampant illegal Windows XP copying. People using Windows XP with the stolen key will not be able to apply the service pack or any future updates available from Microsoft's Web site.
"Basically we're freezing their computer where it is," Cullinan said. "We're not preventing them from using it, but obviously one of the benefits of having a license is keeping your PC updated."
Not that any /.ers would use pirated software, but interesting nonetheless
This service pack will do nothing to make windows modular, it simply will allow the user to change the default program associated with a file extension simpler. It does not remove any MS software from Windows. The default program thing isn't anything spectacular, I'm more interested in the part that says that XP won't bug you until you sign up for passport. That right now has to be the biggest pain related to XP, the damn thing just won't go away!
ZDNet is reporting that SP1 will hide the icons, but not get rid of the apps. Is this true? Windows is still useless if it keeps all the bloatware apps loaded into memory.
---
IMHO, of course.
May the SOURCE be with you.
According to this article, XP SP1 doesn't remove the apps, it just hides them. One of the FEATURES of the middleware hiding app is that other programs need to register themselves through a new API to be the default web browser or email client or media player etc... My question is will the API documentation have the same "Anti-OpenSource" clauses that MS has grown so fond of recently??? Would this prevent Mozilla from being the default browser??
------- Assumption is the mother of all f$#@ ups.
You really don't want to upgrade, since the new SP1 will make your WinXP unusable, as MS knows about illegal keys (like the one which escaped from a company who are good friends of MS and their name starts with D) (thats according to the-register)...
Hetz (Heunique)
Personally, I do not run unlicensed software, but the people I know who do pirate software are more than willing to run a vulnerable machine, rather than pay money to keep from being a public nuisance.
/ \
\ / ASCII ribbon campaign for peace
x
/ \
MS preps all-new warez busting antitrust complying XP SP1
Microsoft's 'Seattlement' Service Pack for Windows XP is to go into testing within the next few weeks, and will ship later this year. The company doesn't usually make a big marketing deal of Service Packs, but for legal compliance reasons WinXP SP1 is special, so it's been taking some journalists through what's in it, how it will work and how it will comply.
In order to meet the terms of the MS-DoJ antitrust settlement, Microsoft has to make it possible for PC manufacturers and users to be able to hide various pieces of middleware that are incorporated in XP. The dissenting states, as you're no doubt aware, have been pushing for more radical "rip 'em out" measures, but if the judge doesn't grant these and approves the MS-DoJ deal instead, XP SP1 is what you're going to get.
The software covered here is IE, Outlook Express, Messenger, Windows Media Player and Microsoft's Java Virtual Machine, and there will be four configuration options made available via a new control mechanism. You can have the Microsoft option, the original machine configuration (i.e. what the OEM decided it would ship you, but this is going to be most obviously applicable to new machines shipped by OEMs post-SP1 release), a non-Microsoft option that allows you to substitute non-Microsoft middleware, and custom configuration.
So far, so simple, but it gets interesting, if we pick a little at what Microsoft's Jim Cullinan has been telling people. Joe Wilcox from CNET, for example:
"If you have five different browsers on the PC and four of them are non-Microsoft, those four will appear there and you will have a choice to pick the default," Cullinan said. But software developers must write programs "so that they can register here" for the choices to appear. In the case where there is no third- party middleware installed, Microsoft software would appear in the list.
Unless we're gravely mistaken, this points to a characteristically Microsoft-ish implementation of the apparently simple task of shoving Microsoft software into the background somewhere and installing Navigator, Opera or Mozilla instead. "We're telling software developers how to register for this," Cullinan went on, so, in order to get themselves in on the grand middleware add/remove express, Microsoft's rivals are going to have to join what sounds rather like a Microsoft mini-developer program, participate in the SP1 beta and for all we know have the APIs related to the new control system disclosed to them. Does the new control system count as a new mini-UI, one wonders?
Gordon Bennett, as we say this side of the pond. And the apparent addition of some kind of new extra-special subset of and/or parallel structure to the add-remove system is just plain weird. For chrissake, you may wonder, why can't they just...? Or just...? We know we do.
It gets odder still, and more decidedly Microsoft-ish. The estimable Ted Bridis of AP has a nugget from Mr C that suggests a new tilting of the scales, as revenue-hungry PC manufacturers sit their oppressive bums on the one side.
"It also [writes Ted] could provide new revenue sources for hard-hit computer makers in a dour economy by encouraging software rivals to pay to distribute their own tools over Microsoft's wares." Cullinan explains: "These guys are going to pay OEMs (computer makers) to put it on there, and OEMs are going to take money or whatever it takes."
Isn't that clever? The OEMs ship Microsoft's middleware, which is then used by Microsoft to generate revenue opportunities for Microsoft. Microsoft does not pay them, because as all of this stuff is a part of the operating system, they have to pay Microsoft instead. But if they want to substitute alternative middleware, then here lies an opportunity for them to offset some of the cost of the MS Windows licence by demanding money from the suppliers of that middleware. We accept that they're obviously going to have to have a good reason for swapping out the MS middleware, and that this is likely to be money-related, but it's nice that Redmond is coming up with simple, direct ideas as to how this could work. Our friends in the Norse will be dead impressed, we feel sure.
Other highlights. SP1 will include USB 2.0 support, and Mira, Freestyle and Tablet PC support. It'll be about 40 megs, downloadable or for sale on CD for shipping costs, which will be sub-$10. It would, it occurs to us, make sense for the likes of Real, AOL and Sun to ship it, or at least the reconfiguration aspects of it, along with their own software, so we encourage them now to ask Microsoft if they can, and then tell us what the response is.
And one last thing readers who're no better than they should be should bear in mind about SP1. Microsoft is going to engineer it so that it won't work on a widely-warezed activation key, which as we recall escaped form a large friend of Microsoft beginning with D. It would appear that Microsoft does not intend application of SP1 to vape systems installed using that key, but simply to freeze them where they are, and to block their ability to use Windows Update. Microsoft has used service packs to disable installations it deemed pirated in the past, and we'd guess it's decided not to do this because it might hit legit systems by mistake, or generate adverse publicity from innocent victims.
Disabling Windows Update access does however up the ante, as it'll at least make it more difficult for readers who're no better than they should be to get hold of updates and patches. Long term it is also logical for Microsoft to try to make this impossible, not just difficult, so it's an area worth watching. And lastly, Microsoft is no doubt aware of considerably more compromised keys for XP than just the one, so we'd actually be surprised if it was just the D one that got nuked in SP1. You have been warned. (Well no, not you but this guy you know, OK?)
All this does is HIDE the icons for internet explorer and outlook express and windows media player.
I can already do that. Tweak UI does it. And as for file associations, who here thinks that if you accidentally start up windows media player even after this service pack, that it will still redo all your file associations without asking...
This is not a plea of guilt on Microsoft's part, hell this supports their case, they aren't removing anything, they are just hiding it (since of course, windows would stop functioning if you removed it)...
---
Programming is like sex... Make one mistake and support it the rest of your life.
As mentioned in The Register article, 3rd party apps will appear as choices if they are coded so that they interface with XP to appear as choices. They will not automatically appear just because they are installed; it will require some registration with MS to have the app appear as a choice, perhaps even having to use some shared library from MS.
If you can't beat them, embrace and extend them.
I find it a little amusing that MS needs to hire a team of programmers to "HIDE" the MS middleware that'll be installed with Windows XP.
OOOoooo.. a fancy ass little control panel option to trash icons for IE MSN , and outlook. 700megs later, we have people with so much crap on the HD who are oblivious to whats installed.
Another thing... MS claims they have "locked" a WinXP installation to the hardware. If I get a new PC... does that mean I can't uninstall from my old PC, and reinstall on the other? or what if I swap a harddisk?
Someone please fill me in here.
--Me
Will M$ still release SP3 for Win2k, or are they going to do a WinNT 4 SP7 on us? If SP3 is released will it allow IE and WMP to be removed?
I use Yahoo! Messenger all the time on my PC. I like it, I use it, it gives me handy access to my account there.
But it's annoying because YM uses IE as its HTML rendering engine. If I uninstalled IE completely, YM wouldn't work. HomeSite has (or at least, had) similar problems; it advertised "experimental" Gecko integration, but I never did get it to work. If I wanted to preview my pages without launching a browser, IE needs to be installed.
Other third-party apps do the same thing, because IE's engine is so easy for them to integrate. It's not my fault they rely entirely on MS's browser to make their application work, but there you are.
So we keep IE installed and just deal with the memory bloat. I don't use IE anymore except for browser testing, not since Mozilla became so friendly and I convinced Windows to make it the default browser for everything. (This took some time.) But it'd be nice if third-party apps didn't agree with MS that the browser is an "integrated" part of the OS.
The article mentions that:
"Another change seeks to curb about 90 percent of Windows XP piracy. Microsoft introduced Product Activation with the operating system, which uses a numeric key to lock the software to the hardware. But code stolen from a large Microsoft customer allowed rampant illegal Windows XP copying. People using Windows XP with the stolen key will not be able to apply the service pack or any future updates available from Microsoft's Web site."
This means that the CD you have in your cube with XP written on it with a Sharpie will not take the service pack.
Other than the security issues this service pack claims to rectify, seems like issues that the average slashdot reader can solve his/herself. I mean, do we really need help making Netscape the default rather than I.E.?
What about Windows 2000 Service Pack 3? Will it allow me to choose to uninstall the software that was mentioned?
If the answer is no, then why is it not possible?
Clearly it _CAN_ be done.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
I didn't know that breaking an OS into a million little peices was called 'modular' these days.
Other apps use IE within themselves using IE's API. Until there is a generalized API that will allow Netscape/Opera/etc. to work in the same places IE does now, such a feature is mostly useless.
I can imagine MS may want to shorten that statement down to "this feature is mostly useless".
the service pack willnot install on those Corprate versions that were floating around becasue MS locked out that Product ID key.
to bad for those that have it......
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
"Basically we're freezing their computer where it is," Cullinan said. "We're not preventing them from using it, but obviously one of the benefits of having a license is keeping your PC updated."
You still be able to use your current pirated version just fine. The upgrade will not disable it from working. It's just that it won't let you upgrade.
Dont post FUD
Joseph?
While this is a welcomed change for Microsoft to open up their operating system and play nice with third party companies, what has Microsoft done with the EULA for SP1? That is the real reason not to use XP -- not because it doesn't play nice with RealAudio. The XP EULA is affront to an individual's right to cpu privacy.
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
Do you really want to pay for something you have said you do not want?
Under the States' remedy you would get a discount of $50 or more.
NexuSys - Linux support by the best
...I wonder how many people currently running a pirated version of XP will reconsider and actually BUY XP to be able to apply the service pack.
;)
My guess: probably fewer than those who will switch to a free OS
The idea with those select versions of the OS is that no key should be required anywhere. Large organisations cannot call Microsoft every time the upgrade or reinstall a computer.
And for those who didnt read the article and runs a pirated version of XP: M$ says 90% of you wont be able to upgrade to SP1...
Don't know why
It sounds more like they made the file associations interface more end-user-friendly. I don't think it's ever been the case that any 3rd party apps were prohibited from running.
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
"People using Windows XP with the stolen key will not be able to apply the service pack or any future updates available from Microsoft's Web site."
Can you say windowsupdate.kazaa.com ?
No I didnt spell check this post...
In an advisory issued yesterday, Microsoft admitted the authentication mechanism for the debugging facility is flawed in a way that allows unauthorised programs to gain access to the debugger. If they obtain access either directly to a console or through a terminal session, crackers might be able to run code of their choice. Microsoft suggests a few possibilities might include "deleting data, adding accounts with administrative access, or reconfiguring the system" (isn't all this built into XP anyway? - Ed). http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/55/25407.html MS preps all-new warez busting antitrust complying XP SP1. Isn't that clever? The OEMs ship Microsoft's middleware, which is then used by Microsoft to generate revenue opportunities for Microsoft. Microsoft does not pay them, because as all of this stuff is a part of the operating system, they have to pay Microsoft instead. But if they want to substitute alternative middleware, then here lies an opportunity for them to offset some of the cost of the MS Windows licence by demanding money from the suppliers of that middleware. We accept that they're obviously going to have to have a good reason for swapping out the MS middleware, and that this is likely to be money-related, but it's nice that Redmond is coming up with simple, direct ideas as to how this could work. Our friends in the Norse will be dead impressed, we feel sure. And one last thing readers who're no better than they should be should bear in mind about SP1. Microsoft is going to engineer it so that it won't work on a widely-warezed activation key, which as we recall escaped form a large friend of Microsoft beginning with D. It would appear that Microsoft does not intend application of SP1 to vape systems installed using that key, but simply to freeze them where they are, and to block their ability to use Windows Update. Microsoft has used service packs to disable installations it deemed pirated in the past, and we'd guess it's decided not to do this because it might hit legit systems by mistake, or generate adverse publicity from innocent victims. http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/25423.html
"The control offers four different choices for changing the Windows desktop and Start Menu: "Computer Manufacturer Configuration," "Microsoft Windows," "Non-Microsoft" and "Custom."
When I change my setting to Non-Microsoft, will microsoft know? If so, will I not get updates for certain things because I am "Non-Microsoft"? Why does the system need to know that the program is "Non-Microsoft"
(I am not trying to flamebait or troll, just stating my worries considering previous Microsoft practices.)
~ kjrose
Yes.
You see, you might think that setting Netscape to launch when you click on a hyperlink or double-click an HTML file means you've set the default. What I call setting the default is having the OS itself decide that when an app has programmatically requested an HTML-rendering component, it gets that component from Netscape and not from IE.
No user intervention can achieve that right now. Not even by a Slashdotter.
Cheers,
Ian
If they had, they wouldn't be where they are today.
From the article: Another change seeks to curb about 90 percent of Windows XP piracy. Microsoft introduced Product Activation with the operating system, which uses a numeric key to lock the software to the hardware. But code stolen from a large Microsoft customer allowed rampant illegal Windows XP copying. People using Windows XP with the stolen key will not be able to apply the service pack or any future updates available from Microsoft's Web site.
Any bets on how long it takes for a crack to appear for the Service Pack? Or new ISO's of Windows XP with the Service Pack already applied?
Actually, the article says that it will be just as bloated as before, but you won't necessarily see it all. This is the smallest step MS could make in the right direction, but its not big enough. The ability to actually remove the various components, not just hide them, for both OEMs and consumers, that is what I'm waiting for.
Do not confuse duty with what other people expect of you; they are utterly different.Duty is a debt you owe to yourself.
Please press OK to continue.
This program has performed an illegal operation and will be shut down. No changes will be saved.
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
Why should we believe that it will continue to work after it's been modularized? I think we all know that Windows can work without IE, but it seems to me that Microsoft is going to use this as a way to say, "See? People de-install the Internet Explorer module, and Windows becomes (unstable|doesn't work)! I told you so!"
:)
Classic Microsoft manuevering if you ask me... but then I'm a cynic.
:q!
sweet! now i have a reason to stop using win2000 and use xp =)
... But XP would still default to the MS app. For example in IE under XP, each time you click a "mailto" link it lauches Outlook, even if you have Netscape as your default email application.
Same if you install an image viewer/browser such as Irfanview, XP will insist on opening images in its own preview application.
I mean, after you've paid for the whole MS package, then you go out and pick up / download netscape, haven't your already paid for IE? I guess they do give away IE free, but I'd be willing to bet that some of the money you spend on the windowsXP os is for the work they put into these programs (windows media player, IE, outlook)
:)
:)
How 'bout a partial refund?
I guess I shouldn't wine since i don't even use windows.. but, that's how I am, always keeping YOUR interests in mind!
Ansi's and stupid tricks!
Hide the unwanted apps? Was the recycle bin too full already? Why can't they be DELETED!?!?!? Oh great, now I'll be stuck with a bunch of "recycle proof" apps.
This link contains some API and registry changes that allow OEMs and other vendors to change the default programs from e-mail, JavaVM to media player within Windows.
¦ ©® ±
So, who was that?
Dell?
Great. Now AOL is going to go around to the PC manufacturers, and cut weird deals with them so that Netscape Communicator and Realplayer are the defaults for everything.
Problem is, Communicator sucks, and Realplayer sucks.
Internet Explorer and Media Player are GOOD. They're better than the competition. This does nothing to help the consumer. But whatever. Microsoft must be punished for giving away software that is better than what the competition has.
This whole situation is retarded.
Somebody bought it, right?
Well. Who ever it was deserves a $50 or more discount if they do not want the Microsoft branded products.
It is just like when a friend of yours buys the happy meal but you did not want the toy. You should have advised them to buy a meal without the toy.
NexuSys - Linux support by the best
Mod the parent to this up! He almost stole the words from my mouth!
On the Mac OS, when specifying the apps to be used as http/ftp/mailto/etc. helpers, literally *any* app can be specified, just by browsing to it. And yet, now Microsoft is saying that you have to use their APIs to register as a helper, but they've said nothing about how you get access to the documentation for those APIs!
And I wouldn't be surprised if there were some sort of anti-GPL clause in the access agreement for the documentation...
This is essentially useless. Great, you can remove the icons if they were really bothering you so much...but can the OEM's?
Doubt it.
http://www.eweek.com/article/0,3658,s=701&a=27311, 00.asp explains that the icons are only hidden and the and the default views in the start menu are now more configurable.
You can still run IE - the executibles and dll's are all there. That is why the rest of the 9 states didn't jump for joy and say 'good microsoft... now play dead!'
This is just stupid. First of all, hardly anyone is going to disable these things, and secondly I expect that the first thing that most products will do in future is make you turn them back on before they install so they know what environment they are running in.
Sig is taking a break!
TheRegister article is better.
NexuSys - Linux support by the best
Remember how you could "fuse" NT 4's and 2000's service packs into the installer so you wouldn't have to update it when you made a fresh install? How much do you want to bet that this will the next method that the piraters will use to circumvent the piracy control method?
In a nutshell, this is quite easy to do. You extract the contents of the service pack to a directory, copy the contents of the Windows CD to some random folder, place the updated files in the appopriate places, burn a CD with the updated contents and make it bootable, and voila! You have an updated Windows CD.
If the problems like using quicktime on windows appear for the third party software you choose, esp. after you disable or remove microsoft's version.
I can already hear their spiel about 'lack of adherance to standards' on everyone else's part causing the problems.
I'll bet loads of people run pirated versions of XP that aren't well-known stolen activation keys or other cracks that attempt to override it.
.net server that would manage (contain?) the spread of select CDs.
I'll bet lots of them are grey-area pirates -- people with Select agreements that have a copy that doesn't require online authorization and can be used on lots of computers. I'm sure there are other similar distributions that are in the wild that don't require this and won't get caught by XP SP1.
Unless (when?) Microsoft starts limiting how these versions can be used, there will still be large numbers of illicit copies of XP and other software on the market. I wouldn't be suprised to see a MS licensing service in
Several PC makers have already indicated that they would consider swapping out Microsoft middleware, such as Windows Media Player or Windows Messenger, for competing software. But many are still evaluating their options. Well I suppose Dell, etc. will be making more money now that Netscape, etc. can compete for product positioning in Windows systems.
If you apply that Service Pack you are agreeing to the New Improved EULA so make sure you read it and understand what you are agreeing to. The solution is to not use Microsoft Products. Instead of downloading a service pack with terms that are lawless go out and buy a Linux Distro or fire up your ftp to the nearest mirror and install Linux.
since I refuse to pay for XP, I wouldn't be able to upgrade
If you didn't pay, you shouldn't have anything to upgrade in the first place. The fact that software should be free doesn't mean that we can refuse to pay companies who want us to. As silly as Microsoft sometimes are, I entirely approve the anti-piracy part of this.
VNC is already here, its stable, works well, and is secure. Its also for a handful of platforms.
Microsoft is just limiting the abilities of (another) inferior ripoff product, so it will only work on M$ designated systems.
My question is how will it affect someone (I'll be brave enough to admit I'm one), that prefers the "default" configuration?
I like IE, I want it integrated. Now that everything is modual, does that mean I'll expect to see more bluescreens so they can appease the "modual hunters" (you know, the Linux users that will never install it)??
Microsoft loves the fake settlement.
Microsoft can continue to bundled products as it damn well pleases requardless of what the product does.
Microsoft can force users to run the Microsoft product simply by providing data files, formats, etc., that only its crap can support.
And, all developers know that all systems will be preloaded with the Microsoft brand of middlewear and key applications.
Microsoft could not ask for more if they wanted to.
The fake settlement was written by Microsoft to solidify the monopolies in browsers, media players and messaging. Under the fake settlement, Microsoft has more power than before the law suit was even filed.
NexuSys - Linux support by the best
Let see, we have wireless mice, keyboards, and now screens.
WHAT IS THE POINT OF HAVING A DESKTOP COMPUTER THEN?
Exactly, there isn't. It'd be better to just get a laptop then get wireless screen, mouse, and keyboard. And it'd be less bulky too.
Oh, and since M$ is bringing us this "advanced" technology, it'll be highly overpriced.
Remember, M$ 'bugs' are really 'features'.
Now i can replace Explorer with KDE3.0.1
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
what if the code was ACTUALLY removed instead of "hidden" then it might actually comply with the anti-trust decision. The mere fact that you can now install and use competing software isnt enough. IF I want to use mosaic, or netscape, or my 7 year old email program that does not auto download or auto open attachments for emails, I want the offending code not to be there! If I dont want it on my machine, I dont want to have it there. After the patch, try deleting Iexplore.exe and see what happens.
you will be in for a rude awakening
What ever happened to the plan for only bug fixes in SP's? :-)
How many new new bugs will be introduced with this SP? I'm thinking it might be wise to wait until SP1 has been released for a period of time (weeks at least, if not a month or so) to see if there are any major problems.
The fake settlement does not permit your defaults to work anyway.
The fake settlement spells out the circumstances when the OS (Microsoft) can ignore your settings. And, everything that determines that is under the unilateral control of Microsoft.
As a user, you are out of the picture completely.
Read the fake settlement. Locate the discussion explaining the circumstances when Microsoft branded technology can be triggered by the OS (written by Microsoft, right?).
It is right there in the fake settlement. If the data format for key files changes for whatever reason and only the Microsoft brand supports the changed format or data, the Microsoft branded product will fire up.
As a user you have no choice at all. The DOJ gave that power to Microsoft Corporation.
NexuSys - Linux support by the best
Is he Microshafted?
Does MS really think that by shutting down the current crop of warezed XP's out there, that another crop won't appear?
Come on, how much ingenuity will it take for someone to make a copy of another XP Corporate disk and/or key (I'm not sure if the disks are somehow tagged, but the keys certainly are) and put it up on an FTP server somewhere?
It doesn't even need to be an IT guy that does it, though it will probably be an IT guy's head that rolls when MS figures out which company had it.
I can see it now.. Bill the Janitor is declared Hero of the Warez Realms by Sir Hax0r for courage and valor above and beyond that of all janitors, for swiping an XP Corporate CD and key for a night.
Critics say Microsoft is hiding access to its programs, but the fundamental code is still installed on the PC. If the code is still there, developers could take advantage of it over other middleware, they charge
So what they are saying is they would prefer that Microsoft break as many 3rd party applications as possible? If they took out the code to internet explorer, what happens when hundreds of apps try to load the IE browser activeX control, or how about the stuff in media player.
See subject header.
i have a pirate copy, i've been thinking about buying OEM for a while now (at like $119).. if I buy it, do I have to format to install it? or can i just install it over my pirate, will that cause the key to change and then ill be able to run the SP?
Under the Justice Department settlement, Microsoft must allow consumers or PC makers to hide user access to five pieces of so-called middleware: Internet Explorer, Outlook Express, Windows Media Player, Windows Messenger and Microsoft's version of the Java Virtual Machine.
Reading the article, it sounds to me like if you've already deleted the shortcuts to these applications, you stand to gain nothing from this service pack. The bloat is still there.
----- sXe
MSDN had this a couple of days ago - that is the technical details of what you can do. Basically it let you sets the default browser, media player etc for XP.
Actually it is not much new but will help MS disarm critics.
They aren't making the system more modular - they're stuff is still their. All that has happened is that they allow other applications to set themselves as the default, which other applications already have the ability to do!
The fact that anyone would see this as making Windows modular simply defies logic!
Scheme is you have to register with the Borg to be able to run your code. New api that you have to use if you do not then your product is like it was never installed it is but your users will not be able to find it because it is now hidden. Of course you will have to pay Microsoft for using their API and of course you will have to include their code along with their EULA with your code so in effect it is forcing users to accept their EULA if they do not they cannot run your code period even if its not your EULA. By doing this Microsoft can continue to inovate the EULAS to what they seem to like. New name for Windows Update "Windows Destroyer" it kills your computer if you do not agree to assimilate into the Borg and zaps all those who would take on the Borg like GNULinux. Microsoft new slogan "We Own Your A$$".
It is part of the settlement, and it will allow to use other clients than IE full story at http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/2002/05/24 / icrosoft-settlement.htm
Bill Gates was quoted saying, "Four feet good, two feet better."
I don't know about upgrading from the pirate install, but...
o 1. asp
This offer is only valid 'while supplies last', but if it's still good, you might be able to get a legal copy for $49.
http://www.microsoft.com/partner/campaign/Winpr
Yes, the top of the page says it's only for registered partners, but the smaller print near the bottom says you will be prompted to register if necessary.
And, no I haven't tried this myself, so I can't actually vouch for it, sorry.
What, it runs infinite loops in less than five seconds?
Have you read my journal today?
i'm reading a lot of posts about how the new patch cripples pirated keys
.Net
i'm wondering how this affects the different flavors of XP?
as everyone knows that Professional is not supposed to be subject to the key bullshit whereas the home version is
personally i'm using a pirated copy of XP pro and while it would be trivial for me to get a legal copy for $5 thanks to a collegiate cocksucking arrangement with M$ that one of my ex-colleges had, i'd rather not since that would mean re-installing and the fact that M$ might see a penny of my money (which is unacceptable)
in fact the last legal copy of windows i think i purchased was of '98, and that wasn't by choice
fuck M$, if they cripple my desk i'll just have another *nix desktop with a 98 SE partition for gaming, maybe eventually they will learn to stop treating their customers like criminals (although they seem to have taken a lesson from US law enforcement on that one, since you are presumed guilty until proven innocent in most cases these days)
hopefully the DoJ will give them a vasectomy and people won't have to worry about selling their souls to
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Read the article... now sit and think a moment and stop jerking your knees. This is MS giving the end users an interface that allows you to unregister microsoft middleware packages and register others as default. It is not modularizing windows, it's not uninstalling MS middleware. It is MS meeting the spirit and letter of the November settlement however you feel about MS.
I don't know about that service pack, but I can make netscape my default browser by the pop up that asks so when I open it, or I can go to tools, folder options, and go under file types and mess around with the file extensions...
just another service pack to fix some holes and create more
Slashdot Hypocrisy at work?
Who here uses XP anyway, /.ers all use Linux, so it seems to me... I used XP tho, Linux is too much of a pain in the ars.
You probably believe every software bug is somehow the user's fault.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I work XP Home/Pro tech support (I love RedHat too, so don't pidgeon-hole me as a borg drone), and the news of this service pack is good news to me. Hopefully they will fix a lot of issues we come across frequently at work, at the same time I hope that they don't create more problems.
The OS, surprisingly is not bad. I use redhat for Apache/Perl/mySQL, but I use XP for the obvious reasons - they pay me to know it and it is a decent desktop enviroment.
Many of the problems we tackle every day fall under usually two categories: Hardware, Third-Party software.
Once in a while you'll get a really weired one that needs to be researched further, and it has to be bumped up to the next level. What happens to it there? Who knows? Probably a format-clean install.
Over the past few months we've seen some of the more common problems dwindle away. Hopefully with this pack's release more issues will disappear.
Most of all, I hope with the new feature to remove components people start ripping out Windows Media Player so they won't ask us to troubleshoot it. =]
I read a /. comment in this thread that pointed to a bizzarely written and bitchy commentary on the Register.
I really hate this... "And one last thing readers who're no better than they should be should bear in mind about SP1. Microsoft is going to engineer it so that it won't work on a widely-warezed activation key, which as we recall escaped form a large friend of Microsoft beginning with D. It would appear that Microsoft does not intend application of SP1 to vape systems installed using that key, but simply to freeze them where they are, and to block their ability to use Windows Update. Microsoft has used service packs to disable installations it deemed pirated in the past, and we'd guess it's decided not to do this because it might hit legit systems by mistake, or generate adverse publicity from innocent victims.
Disabling Windows Update access does however up the ante, as it'll at least make it more difficult for readers who're no better than they should be to get hold of updates and patches. Long term it is also logical for Microsoft to try to make this impossible, not just difficult, so it's an area worth watching. And lastly, Microsoft is no doubt aware of considerably more compromised keys for XP than just the one, so we'd actually be surprised if it was just the D one that got nuked in SP1. You have been warned. (Well no, not you but this guy you know, OK?)"
They are announcing the actions of a company to curb illegal use of it's software (questionable) and then make it sound like MS shouldn't do it at all that it's wrong to keep people from stealing your products... what a load of horse shit.
Also, they make broad ass assumptions about the interface and code needed to make the register/unregister function work in 3rd party apps under SP1 for XP. This is just stupid since they haven't even seen it yet and have no clue as to what it takes (it could be as simple as a stanardized registry ID entry for crying out loud!!!).
The Register... yellow journalism at it's worst!
BSA hitmen descending down onto your house badgering the kids saying "That game is in violation of the Enterprise" calling your kid a pirate and having the FBI swat team haul little juniors and your ass before the Federal Judge because you are a Pirate and in violation of DMCA the charge "Your kid had a illegal copy of software which included Reader Rabbit software." You will be held up now as major Felons that are more dangerous then Osama Bin Ladin." Do you really want to have Microsoft Software knowing that this shit can happen to you anytime. The BSA uses the FBI at times so do not think their entrance into your house will be a pleasent one. Just get rid of all that Microsoft ExtortionWare and install Linux. Use GNU software that is GPL LGPL.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Mirya will come down in price, as do all tech things once they ship and more are built.
As to uses... think about having one computer in the board room, hooked into the MM presentation system. Then you have that computer loaded with Longhorn and a dozen or so Mirya tablets, one for each meeting attendee. They can work on materials being shared on one desktop in the same room, ala a whiteboard.
This is just an example... but I think it can lead to some great applications. It may not be great stuff for home (though it could be), but in the business environment I can think of dozens of very useful applications.
This may come as a shock, but I REALLY don't want yahoo!messenger's weather pane to embed mozilla even if I am using mozilla as my primary browser. I *want* it to continue using the embedded IE.
If I didn't, I would patch it to load mozilla-embed, which is possible now.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
nuffsaid.
Example: My roommate and I traded a months rent for an IBM laptop with '98. XP would bring this machine to its knees. That and I'm not shelling out the $$$ to a company I find dishonest for a product I feel is inferior for the money and resources it demands. Soooo, I put Slack, Mozilla and OpenOffice on there and guess what? Except for games (which I don't really play anyway) I have a laptop that works better (IMHO) than most laptops with Windows and provides the same function!
I think people need to start "walking the walk" a little more. People bitch about MS, tout *nix, but then most use IE and Win to read /. ! I don't get it. I have to use Win2K (but installed Mozilla) at work, but other than that...
Computer Science is Applied Philosophy
If I steal a car from the dealership, the dealership is MORALLY OBLIGATED to give me warranty on the stolen car?
/. ... but this is ridiculous.
I dislike Microsoft as much as the next guy on
you know they're gonna hose your windows. They already do it with service packs for other products (office comes to mind). Do you have any reason to expect that they won't do the same with the os. When they say "We're not preventing them from using it," they mean "The hardware will still continue to operate."
Don't think that reasonable assumptions are FUD.
I stand corrected on that example. However, I'm sure you see my point - it could be applied to, say, streaming media, viewing image files, launching Java apps...whatever.
Curious - with the drop-in replacement, who sets the the choice? The user? At install time or whilst running? Would an app requesting an HTML rendering component have to specifically request the replacement? Or could it just say 'Give me an HTML component' and the OS would supply it with Mozilla.
However, as I say I stand corrected on the MSHTML stuff.
Cheers,
Ian
Code that takes out your Computer rendering it unusable. Bill Gates must of stole this idea from the Pentagon when he was up their trying to push his insecure CrashWare. Bill Gates new innovation "The Zapper" if you do not do what we want we take your computer out".
See, there is one really big warez release of XP that this targets. It is the OEM version that comes without activation and hardware lockout. This SUCKS honestly since I use this on my hardware test machine at home (I am not an OEM and can't buy that version off the shelf), even though I have three licensed XP machines otherwise. See, MS forgot the press (at least the small guys) and we here in the press who do hardware reviews swap hardware in and out five or more times daily, but we can't get this version of XP legally, forcing us to steal it or go through the innordinate pain associated with calling MS once or twice a day to unlock our systems. For home use this has no impact at all, but in this case it surely does.
I am SURE there will be a fix/patch from the warezers within an hour of SP1 hitting the market, if not before since quite a few 'beta' testers are warezers themselves and will share the code to those who can hack it and fix it back. Still, what a pain. Thanks MS.
Piss on Windows! Go to Mac OS X!!! Wait until the summer and buy a new PowerMac with OS 10.2!! You will enjoy the power and ease of use of having a mac and the power of Unix at your figure tips!!!
http://www.apple.com/macosx/m /powermac/: //www.apple.com/imac//
Try a Mac and drop the virus infected Windows OS!!!!! More stable, easier to use, and ummm more stable!!
http://www.apple.com/
http://store.apple.com/
http://www.apple.co
http://www.apple.com/powerbook/
http
http://www.apple.com/ibook
and I read /. every day and post dozens of times. I use a RedHat/Apache box for delivering web content, but XP on the desktop is untouchable really.
But, by your own admission, you are a criminal. A bad one since you don't even realize or classify yourself as such. What a piece of shit... get real punk.
Can I uninstall Pinball in WinXP? I was going through my Win2k machine deleting junk the other day, and looked at my logs:
"Pinball.exe has been restored to maintain system stability"
Me: ehh.....
Microsoft is scaning your hardware and data illegal of course but they do it. They have one huge database. They take this database mine the data gathered sell it to the highest bidder. Microsoft steals your data and companys secrets and use it in their extortion schemes. Microsoft is the ultimate Pirate stealing and selling your data without your consent. Install XP and then install a sniffer on your port and see who comes a calling every few minutes ........yep its Microsoft in Redmond home of the Enterprise and the Borg.
Make it work on my Athlon first, then I'll switch. I'm not buying into Steve Jobs fascist plans of buying the hardware just to get the software.
Macs are too expensive for me, and I find I can't reuse the parts as easily as I can w/ a PC. Sure, I maybe using an ancient soundcard in my PC, but that's one less component for me to buy.
Does netscape even provide this functionality? I think IE is the only browser that actually has an embeddable rendering component (on Win32 at least, I realize that mozilla does on *nix)
On the Mac OS, when specifying the apps to be used as http/ftp/mailto/etc. helpers, literally *any* app can be specified, just by browsing to it. And yet, now Microsoft is saying that you have to use their APIs to register as a helper, but they've said nothing about how you get access to the documentation for those APIs!
Yes, and the same applies today under Windows. Microsoft are talking about adding ANOTHER layer to make it easier for people who don't know what mailto or MIME types or helper apps actually are, which will do the registration step you describe above automatically.
Otherwise, you have three choices: (1) do it by hand, (2) hope that your app asks you every time you run it whether you want it to be the default or not, or (3) reinstall the app every time you want to make it the default.
Pick one.
Simon
Coming soon - pyrogyra
The fact that Microsoft has gotten everyone to call an *application* like Windows Media Player "middleware" is a victory in itself for them. This is *not* middleware. There is no good goddamn reason why WMP has parts of its code in the OS and vice versa. The only reason MS has done that is to make the OS and their (not) middleware apps so inextricably intertwined that they can truly claim that it's impossible to remove the apps without destroying the OS. They take chunks of code from the browser and other apps and put it into the OS. Then they take chunks of the OS code and put it into the browser. That's the only reason why they can call those apps middleware with a straight face. Go read the Findings of Fact from the last antitrust trial (Judge Thomas Penfield Jackson's) and you'll see what I mean. What I need is a link to the page. Karma whores! Fetch me a link!
As ever, The Register have a good article on this. Has a bit more detail on how the modularisation will work
This post will enter the public domain 70 years after my death, unless Disney buys another extension.
os[Windows 2000 Professional, Service Pack 2 (5.0 - 2195)] uptime[1w 6d 3h 33m 13s] cpu[1-Intel Pentium III (Cu), 997MHz, 256KB (36% Load)] mem[Usage: 236/320MB (73.75%)]
ive been up almost 2 weeks and only rebooted cuz the power went out and i dont have an ups. so learn how to run a clean box.
Brussels, May 24 (Bloomberg) -- Microsoft Corp. is under investigation in Europe on charges that its system to collect personal information breaks privacy rules, adding to antitrust probes into the world's largest software maker. The European Commission said it has ``concerns'' about the legality of Microsoft's Passport account, which stores identification so Internet users don't have to re-enter it for different programs and Web sites. The commission ``is looking into this as a matter of priority, in concert with national data protection authorities, as regards the system's compatibility (or not) with EU data protection law,'' the European Union's executive arm wrote to Erik Meijer, a Dutch member of the European Parliament. The commission is already threatening to fine Microsoft for abusing the dominant position of its Windows operating system, which runs 95 percent of the world's personal computers. European regulators are also looking at whether Microsoft's bundling of its Media Player software with Windows gives it an unfair advantage. Last year, Microsoft signed up to the voluntary ``safe harbor'' arrangement, a seal of approval awarded by EU and U.S. authorities for companies that give adequate protection to personal information transferred across the Atlantic. User Damages. Meijer accused Microsoft of collecting and passing on information on users of its products and complained that failure to register can exclude users from some sites. He also said a user of a computer in a public place may unwittingly pass on information to the next user by failing to log off correctly. Commission spokesman Jonathan Todd was not immediately available to say what penalty Microsoft might face. In the separate antitrust cases, the commission has the power to impose fines as high as 10 percent of sales. The EU's probe into Passport was reported earlier in the Brussels-based weekly newspaper European Voice. The exchange of letters between lawmaker Meijer and the commission was posted on the parliament's Web site.
The funniest thing about the parent is marveling over how unfunny geeks really are.
Did i say funny? I meant sad.
My XP install is downright tiny compared to a full Mandrake Linux install, and from what I hear, OS-X is around 3X as big.
Bloated? Compared to DOS6.22, yeah, but not compared to anything current.
+5:offtopic,but anti-American
Go and listen to an hour of their brain-wa^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hmarketing drivel about .NET development and they'll give you a free copy of XP Professional, key and all. That's where I got mine.
"Microsoft's chief rivals have complained that the changes being made to Windows XP do not go far enough to ensure a level playing field in the computer software market"
.ISO files and a decent Media Player (although I haven't replaced WMP because again, I like OS-integrated software), I wouldn't need to use anything but Windows XP.
Level playing field? Is this communism?
I like Windows XP. I like having a browser integrated into the OS. I can open a URL from the same window I open my File Manager console from. I like that.
And no matter how many different browsers I try, I like IE. It seems as though all of the other browsers are mostly just trying to keep up with it (with the exception of Netscape 7, which is quite nice). I think if MS added a few power features in XP, such as being able to create
Quit fighting it and conform. Resistance is futile...
"You are not a beautiful and unique snowflake."...Tyler Durden
I am so tired of this antitrust suit. Next thing you know Texas Instruments will be sueing M$ for the inclusion of Calculator with Windows.
I don't use XP, thank god... I think this is a trick... they're going to release the service pack, and come back to the trial when tons of people call in with problems saying "see?? SEE??? I told you we couldn't do it!!"
They're going to use this as their proof of concept, at the expense of all XP users...
Tread lightly.
Snooze and you lose your sushi.
Stupid now some script kiddies are really going to love this knowing that a majority of XP users will not be able to patch the holes, bugs and exploits thus unleasing their destructive payload on the net community at large. Big lawsuits are coming because of this shit. It is costing companys loads of money when this crap happens and not just Microsoft shops. Sendmail administrators have to keep adding to the list of what gets blocked at the gateway. I have a solution just block anything and everything Microsoft. Sent a message back to a person sending you a Microsoft formated file and say you want it in ascii you do not accept Microsoft file formats because they carry exploits and viruses. Included a link to where they can learn about GNU Linux like http://www.linux.org and http://www.gnu.org.
I see this as an excuse for Microsoft to deliver "legitimate" spyware to your machine. If they can shut you down from updates, there is nothing stopping them from "adding" a little update that notifies Microsoft that you are using the software illegally from IP address 12.34.56.78, through whatever ISP you use.
No thanks, not for me. Microsoft Window is still the "Duplo" block of the operating system world.
accept the fact its user error
I have my Windows 2000 MCSE -- I am sure none of you are impressed. Niether am I. The only things usefull Microsoft has is Exchange and SQL server...with that said, WHY should we even bother with news discussions like this one when we should all be running LINUX anyway! I am sick of Windows related garbage flooding slashdot.
Really? Didn't Cullian say "Basically we're freezing their computer where it is," ? I've got several M$ hard drives like that. You know, won't boot. No, they were not pirated. Most of them have been reformatted to Debian and the computers work much better that way. The infamous instability of M$ OS is wholly the fault of M$.
Don't confuse unpleasant truth with FUD.
1. All M$ EULA have a unilateral temination clause where M$ may terminate your license to use their OS and demand that you destroy all the coppies of "thier" software that you own.
2. XP EULA explictly gives M$ permision to inspect your computer at will and replace "components and modules". This simply augments the BSA way of doing things: on foot. That's innovation for you. It's not about "piracy", they want you to use their software, it's about control.
3. XP has hardware checkers and what not that attempt to detect coppies to other computers. This will mainly be a nuisance to legitimate users who change their software.
So, they said they would, they built the tools to make sure they could, they even made it so they would when they did not mean to. Do you think they don't mean to now with that 40MB "patch"?
Someone here once compared XP to a blimp ride with adverts stapled to his face. I got to see the beast first hand the other day. The other fellow forgot the handcuffs, gag, ball and chain you get to wear on that ride and that you don't get to chose the destination. It was very difficult to use and will be a real turn off to anyone buying a new computer.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
My new HP Pavillion computer came with XP pre-installed. Last night I found tcl/tk was also pre-installed ( no kidding).
.Net ?
Isn't this a competitor of
@vSpid Like, Whatever
If XP has all the stability of w2k, nt, 98, 95, and 3.1, by all means you should upgrade. Try this wink, and never worry about "piracy" again. Yo-ho, yo-ho, a Disney life for me.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Why don't you start reading the articles you submit. I assume this means Internet Explorer and possibly some other apps as well. The article clearly mentions what "middleware" will be hidden.
The only thing more annoying than people replying to articles without reading the articles are people who submit articles without reading the article. Well, perhaps the goatse.cx guy is more annoying...
'Same speed C but faster'
You fucking twat. Read the fucking article, you vomit inducing shit bag. If you're going to quite that equally unpleasant piece of fucking refuse Cullian, you need to go all the way.
We're not preventing them from using it, but obviously one of the benefits of having a license is keeping your PC updated.
They go on to note that the PC will be usable, but future upgrades will not be installed. I guess a stupid fucking ass wipe such as yourself would miss that part. You stinky cunt. You dribbling anus. I flushed a turd this morning that was smarter than you. Please promptly remove yourself from the gene pool, you retarded mongrel oaf. I want to shit in your mouth. I hope you choke, you putrid piece of waste. Clean your fucking brain with a shotgun, please.
"as everyone knows that Professional is not supposed to be subject to the key bullshit whereas the home version is..."
u rr entVersion (ignore stupid /.-added space)
:P
No. The OEM version of Windows XP is not subject to the activation crap that the retail version is. That means that if you buy your software from Pricewatch (search "Microsoft Windows XP Professional"), you'll not only pay half-price ($89 for XP Home; $140 for XP Pro), but you will escape the activation crap completely.
As to the warez part, I'd bet $100 it is at least partially based on this registry key:
HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\C
In there you'll see a key called ProductId. (This is in Windows 2000, at least... I'm assuming it's in XP as well.) Change that to a legal (as in, non-warez) value, and I bet that your system will magically update again.
Back in the Windows 95 days, Microsoft used to make it simple and hand out those Product IDs as the keys on your CD case, but recently they have gotten smarter about it. The new stuff translates from that 25-character gobbletygook to these oldschool product IDs. Figure out the translation algorithm (I believe several warez groups already have) and you're set.
Or stop being such a cheapass and go spend $89 for an OEM copy of XP Home. That's what I did for Windows 2000.
Simpli - Your source for San Jose dedicated servers and colocation!
Read the proposed remedy.
If the toy is only $.02 worth, then that is your discount. If the toy adds $.50 then that is your discount.
Check out the facts before you use false information to deceive others.
Hint: The $50 is the max discount based upon an allocation related to R&D expenses. So, if the R&D for the crap is less than 25% of the total R&D, then your discount is less.
Unless the products are sold separately. Then the discound has to adjust for the separate prices charged.
It is pretty simple. And, unlike your suggestion it is not requiring a $50 discount for a $.02 toy.
NexuSys - Linux support by the best
Look, even if they do disable XP when you try to install the service pack, you can always just reinstall. I have dual boot linux/XP machine at home, and I will definitely try to install the service pack when it comes out. If it gives me shit and disables XP, big deal, I'll reinstall. Installing and setting up windows to the way I like only takes like an hour.
:)
Not to say that I'm using the pirated corporate version or anything.
Joseph?
My favorite part of the article:
.exe file to use. You can only pick one from "the list."
But for the choices to appear, software developers must write programs "so that they can register here," he said. When no third-party middleware installed, Microsoft software would appear in the list.
I'd be interested to see how difficult Microsoft makes it to register your program. And, I also find it interesting that they won't simply pick a different
Not very modular.
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Everyone is screaming for an OS from microsoft that isn't so compounded with all the software that microsoft includes...They should take the final release version of Win95c and change the gui to mimic windows XP and then release that and all the support with it...If people don't want all the goodies of winXP then they should go back to 95/98
is a patch to make slashdot readers stop being such a bunch of assholes. That would truly be the impossible.
But what if I need to actually get work done? Guess XP is where it's at.
Just switch your email and web browsing from IE/Outlook to Mozilla (or Opera or Netscape or whatever), then put up a firewall and virus scanner and you avoid most of the security problems out there anyway. Sure, there are still some ways 'in' to your system, but 99% of the gaps are right there. I'd be more concerned about real compatibility foils that MS may introduce (DX9 or such).
that this SP1 release for XP that complies with a fedral order, will be terribly confusing for both the PC manufacturers and consumers, thus causing an out cry in the windows community, proving microsoft's stance that changing windows in the ways suggested will ultimately hurt mankind?
From what I gather, this 'miracle' service pack only hides the icons to Microsoft middleware, and allows users to change the default handling program for various filetypes. This, of course, can already be done, so this 'feature' of the service pack really means jack - the underlying code for the middleware still remains in the operating system. Sounds to me like some evil corporation is just brown-nosing on a certain judge before she makes some important decisions.
-- Will Atkins "I can't believe it's not butter!"
Such as "Your security settings have disabled ActiveX. The site may not display properly" KEEPS popping up and there is no way to disable it (well, I hexed a DLL to do so, but it seems to be the only way)
It is so obvious a propaganda has been going on. If I'm disabling ActiveX on an untrusted site, I mean it! Why keep bugging me?
Hope they'll do something about it.
Basically the ones with two commas in a row are not hidden by default, but when you delete the word hide you have to also delete a comma, so there's only one comma. Don't ask me why this is what works.
Not suprisingly, for IE, it doesn't actually allow you to remove it, it says "remove access to internet explorer". If you open up the file tree browser thing, ("windows explorer") or just any file folder, and type in a URL in the address field, it just turns into IE.
It works in win2k and winXP,
/winnt/inf/sysoc.inf
in there to a replace all for the world "hide"
once those are blank (leave the , marks... just remove the "hide" part) you can go into control panel and do add/remove windows componants. That's how I was able to get snmp loaded on Win2k Professional. It also lists COM+ componants and other fun stuff.
The rolls of stickers that are provided to Dell are generic keys, and as far as I remember are not tied to Dell, i.e. a Dell key will install a generic retail cd. The key is not tied in any way to the particular copy of the OS on the machine.
- This sig deliberately left blank. Nothing to see, move along.
terrorists use GPS satellite tracking software made by microsoft
terrorists use WAP enabled cellphones powered by Windows CE
If Microsoft tries to legally prevent open-source programs from using their helper-app registration APIs, then just write a closed-source proxy app that will register the open-source app as the helper. This is the reverse strategy that some companies try to use to create open-source proxies to dynamically load GPL libraries.
cpeterso
Mod parent up, I am one of those people. Those people who use XP off campus, but am still part of the schools bulk license. Note that this is legal and OK under the MS license. My question is how does MS know if I am allowed to be part of the college license. If I gave the CD to my friend there is no way that MS would know he is not allowed to use it under the college license, only he and I would know it was wrong. Not that I did that, but I don't see how they could tell the difference, and I'm also not sure where it talks about how warez will not work with this, if its legit at all.
LinuxWorx
Spelling errors are intentional as are gramatical error
Crap , ofcourse it is not a religion
it is free software that is a philosophy
not a religion..
( the one's is in a brainwashe religion is the ones
that thinks win32 is the best no matter what,
mac osx is the best no matter what ,
linux is the best no matter what,
Does this cost money, or is it 'free'?
Here's the kicker: what are the licensing terms for this 'registration'? ...acceptance of the Microsoft 'shared source' license, perhaps?
That would be a _sweet_ boobytrap.
> I assume this means Internet Explorer
> and possibly some other apps as well.
You know what they say when you assume something....
you make an ASS of U and ME.
http://www.teknofile.org/
Or you can just forget about Windows XP
In my Windows 98 partition, I was able to hide the icons to IE, Outlook, MSN, etc., but I know that the programs are still there.
"XP Service Pack Does the Impossible"
Makes a Microsoft OS Secure and reliable???
The race isn't always to the swift... but that's the way to bet!
See LWN:
http://lwn.net/daily/
Patents given to Ingo Molnar for portions of TUX and assigned to Red Hat.
Sure you can forget XP.
But, that is not the same as condoning illegal business practices.
Microsoft's illegal practices harm all consumers and all developers in the industry as well.
NexuSys - Linux support by the best
true... we have a app here on the company i work for that were dying to make more modular... were analysing and coding it for months and it is not 10% as complex as windows! MS may have all of the most brilliant softwares engineers in the world because I thought doing such thing AFTER the app is already done was truly hard! :)) MS is so good that they do that in a 30mb patch! :))
Fabio - Sumare/Sao Paulo/Brazil/South America/Earth/Solar System/Milky Way/Universe
http://www.morroida.com.br
The real question is will M$ allow OEMs to actually use this new functionality. In the past M$ has been pretty strict about what OEMs can put on the user's desktop and what screens can be displayed during initial bootup.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I think i'd be hard pressed to say its more modular. all they are doing is allowing you to use other middleware and hiding their stuff. What I think is a scam is the fact that you already pay for the MS crap that comes with your machine (unless you build it) they will allow you to 'hide' their stuff. but in order to have the choice to use other venders software those competitors have to register with microsoft. then the computer manufacturer is supposed to charge the other software manufacturers to put their software on the machine. something wrong here, microsoft gets paid to have their software on the machine - but everyone else has to pay to get their software installed on the machine. Like anything is going to change. the whole trial and remedies are such a joke. whole thing pisses me off.
...I'd like to see how this turns out. This might simply be a ploy by Microsoft. They can make Windows XP modular, but intentionally cause it to be unstable as hell. This might give them leverage to say, "Look! We made it modular and it didn't work. We're going back to the old way of doing things!"
Wouldn't surprise me in the least...
No comment.
I'm not in Britain, but can tell you that here in the states, the MicroTel PC's are only available via Wal-Mart's website. As for international orders, here's what their site had to say about that...
"International Shipping
We're sorry, at this time we do not ship internationally. The only exceptions are APO/ FPO addresses and major offshore territories and possessions of the United States."
Maybe you can see if ASDA has a website and if the MicroTel's are available from there?
"Michael, I did nothing. I did absolutely nothing - and it was everything that I thought it could be."
Companies put the costs of development into everything they sell. If you go to McDonalds and bring your own cup, they'll still charge you for the 1/2 cent paper cup that you're not using. If you buy a newspaper and don't read it all, too bad, you paid for the whole thing. Thats just the way things are.
Another change seeks to curb about 90 percent of Windows XP piracy. Microsoft introduced Product Activation with the operating system, which uses a numeric key to lock the software to the hardware. But code stolen from a large Microsoft customer allowed rampant illegal Windows XP copying. People using Windows XP with the stolen key will not be able to apply the service pack or any future updates available from Microsoft's Web site.
"Basically we're freezing their computer where it is," Cullinan said. "We're not preventing them from using it, but obviously one of the benefits of having a license is keeping your PC updated."
if I couldn't pirate software (or what I like to call my educational license) I wouldn't know half of what I do. I'd still be using win95.. or win98.. maybe.. with out pirating I wouldn't have the job I do now as I wouldn't have as wide range of products I know. I'm not going to buy all of these peaces of software just to learn them. if I were using them for production it would be different.
I once knew someone that was very good with 3dstudio max.. got hired into a gfx department and had a full copy, he ripped open the box.. chucked the CD aside.. and was geeking out on the documentation, simply because he had never seen it.
antipirating is important to stop people from just taking it.. but if something was completely UNpirateable I think that would slow the industry down.. and the talent that it has raised.
FUD FUD FUD, FUD FUD FUD, FUD, wonderful FUD
r l= / ibrary/en-us/shellcc/platform/Shell/programmersgui de/shell_adv/registeringapps.asp
http://msdn.microsoft.com/library/default.asp?u
Thats why I use MacOS X!
Strange women lying in ponds distributing swords is no basis for a system of government.
But what if I need to actually get work done? Guess XP is where it's at.
Uh... no? I don't even know where to start with a comment like that.
Jake
Dating: while( 1 ){ call_girl(); get_rejected(); drink_40(); } return 0;
- C/C++ Compiler
- Perl, Python, or any other scripting languages
- source files or balls
- A lot of utilities and tools that can do anything to your liking
- Mail client and server software (like Sendmail, Pine, Mutt, etc.)
and many other things that I just can't think of off of the top of my head. There are some things that are quite bloated in a full Linux or FreeBSD install (KDE 2/3, Gnome, StarOffice) but Windows XP doesn't even include basic spreadsheet, presentation or decent graphics programs (think of KOffice as an equivalent to Microsoft Works or the like).Just my $0.015
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Hell it isn't even that so much as the sheer number of dependencies.
.
Of the 2GB standard install (or 1.5GB, depending on which version of XP you have), you can remove MAYBE 500Megs of that.
Oh joy. . .
Of a standard Linux/BSD install all but a few MEGABYTES can be removed and you will still have yourself a stable OS.
If you just want a server machine and not a lot of crud, why even go for the GUI? Hell just one more thing to break and take up resources. Even if it is not very many resources, they are still MINE damnit, and I would like the option to have them back.
This is why I refuse to go from 2K to XP, XP is basicaly 2K with a few kernal tweaks to make users think that it is not bloated, and then 500Megs of blue curvy CRAP that is installed along side everything else.
Yes I can DISABLE the blue curvy crap but it will still be there, and that is what upsets me. That MS sees fit to install blue curvy crap that I do not want nor need.
Actualy the entire WinNT line has tons of extra applications installed, it is just that hardly any of them are documented. . . . Very few productivity apps though.
Need help treating your acne? Come here!
How do we keep them from doing this to us over and over again?
Buy OS X...
Man, you are really screwed up.
First, since you are in love with it, the definition of Pirate, from which piracy springs:
Main Entry: piracy
Pronunciation: 'pI-r also : an act resembling such robbery
2 : robbery on the high seas
3 : the unauthorized use of another's production, invention, or conception especially in infringement of a copyright
Take note of point three (all taken from http://www.m-w.com )
Now, look at your very own definition again for theft... take and removing of personal property, with an intent to deprive the rightful owner of the same... since you KNOW it is illegal to PIRATE software, you had intent anyway.
The only fuckwit around here is your theiving ass, numbnuts. YOu deprive the rightfull owner of the software (provided under federal law and the EULA, take your pick) of income and a legal chain of ownership to the software, as well as to the income and profit derived from it's sale and use as granted by the manufacturer. You have stole something, taken it, knowingly. Don't pretend to make it into something other than what it is...
... free flow of information my ass... software theft is not insurance of the flow of information by any stretch of the imagination...
As to the judgement of law as moral (which the word 'right' implies), you are no more qualified than I. We VOTE in this country to elect judges and politicians whom make the laws in our name and from our political will they represent. You, you piece of thieving shit, have no right to determine that a law is invalid because your broke ass can't afford to buy something... that's an arbitrary decision not up to you in the least knob job.
Personally though, I don't mind the microsoft crap too much. At least they are somewhat useful. I am worried about what the computer manufacturers are going to put on the computers once they have the right to do so. I don't want bunch of uselss shareware crap on my computer.
The software Microsoft bundles are at least somewhat quality software. For example, Windows Media Player can do almost everying a jukebox is suppose to. The free version of real player is total crap comparing to media player.
I think what is installed onto computer should be choosen by computer buyers when they pay for the machine. People may be offended to have Microsoft application preinstalled, there are also people who are offended to have third party software installed without their permission.
I just bought a Compaq PC that was "Enhanced" by Compaq. Most of these enhancements were annoying at best, and detrimental at worst.
For example, it came bundled with Roxio EZ-CD creator preinstalled. This breaks windows XP's built in CD-ROM burning that lets you simply drop files on the CD-ROM icon in the explorer.
It came with about 6 useless programs that all took up space in the toolbar tray. I spent about an hour getting rid of them.
The browser came with some silly browser-bar extensions (how often do I need to visit Compaq.com?) and the toolbar is set to say "Microsoft Internet Explorer--Enhanced by Compaq")
It came with some stupid imaging packacge preinstalled that broke the "filmstrip" preview mode that XP has.
Considering all of this, I shudder when I think of all the "enhancements" that vendors will add if given the chance.
Apple doesn't let vendors much with the OS when it sells boxes. Why should Microsoft?
--
Ask the Ya-Hoot Oracle Anything!
If XP is just 95 plus the illegal crap, then maybe it should be banned altogether?
Or, did you mean to suggest that if you want a better product over time you must also give up your right to pick and choose the software you buy and use?
NexuSys - Linux support by the best
People seem to be bashing this SP, but don't forget that it will also have a ton of security fixes. What I want to know is if they'll allow you to install just the fixes without the useless hide-and-seek part that has been rightfully bashed.
This means that the CD you have in your cube with XP written on it with a Sharpie will not take the service pack.
It will if the key is my company's valid bulk lic #.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
No, it does not. This is why developers prefer Microsoft to Netscape and other 3rd party software vendors. Microsoft consistently makes is workings available to the developer, where as companies like Netscape only care about simple users.
If you were to remove the Internet Explorer code completely, programs such as Winamp and anything else that uses Internet Explorer embedded will stop working. (Winamp has a built in mini-browser, as do many other programs, such as Morpheus when it worked).
Do I want to download IE to make my other applications work? No. Leave IE in the operating system. Hide it if you wish, but let my programs work out of the box. Like it or not, IE is a vital operating system component that Microsoft programs, the operating system, and developers use. It would be removing the command prompt in Windows 2000 to use something else. (Unlike Windows 9x, which is impossible to remove the command prompt because it is DOS based.)
If people want to use Netscape, let them use Netscape. I think it would be a poor choice for system builders to hide IE. I do not mind them putting Netscape or anything else on there, as long as I can hide/uninstall it and use what I want.
Matthew
Click the doodle and read the previous strips.
this is exactly why they need to expand the prison system... for asses like you. You cost all of the regular people more at the register... it's step removed (barely) from shoplifting, and you don't even see it as criminal, which makes you demented as well.
Microsoft has testified under oath that modularization of Windows is impossible. Who's up for a class action lawsuit against Microsoft for perjury? These are my tax dollars going into the prosecution's case, and I'd like to get that money back -- put it to use in public education.
Unfortunately this is not a realistic philosophy. This is not elitism, rather, it's reality based on experience as a tech support and helpdesk professional (years ago - average user savvyness has improved a little). I always make a point to teach people, not just hand-hold them (the whole "give a man a fish, teach him how to fish" comes into play). However, A) Many users (especially in the American "every NOW NOW NOW" culture) don't really care and B) Many users don't have the time to care.
The following are generalizations and obviously don't apply to every single person:
Things have to be "dumbed-down" because people are comfortable being ignorant. This has nothing to do with software but with every single aspect of society. Talk to a contracter who builds houses and they'll tell you how hard it is to communicate relatively trivial concepts to their customers. Their customers just have no desire to be educated about the process. People want to be "right", and they can't humble themselves nor get the patience to gain a basic level of understanding. We have experts for a reason, and the customer need not be an expert. Again, ask a car mechanic how frustrating his job is when he has to deal with the customers.
Personally, as a software developer and designer, I want to do everything I can to make computers as DUH as possible without making them dumb. This is kind of why I really like MacOSX, because it's a reasonably userfriendly (needs some matureing) UI without sacrificing power. This is also why I _don't_ like WinXP, because it's the dumbest UI I've seen yet. Dumb in the sense that it's stupid-easy which is what MS customers want, but is not what's best for them, IMHO, becuase not only will they never learn, but things will always be inefficient due to the 800 step wizards required just to copy a file (exageration, for the anal retentive). So, I'll try to make software as intuitive and easy as possible, without making it dumb. I'm also very patient with the users of my software (interal employees) and I am always more then happy to educate someone willing to learn. However, I'm never willing to put up with impatient, arrogant people who really don't care about anything but NOW.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
Sorry for the quickly typed and poorly worded and structured post. I'm in a hurry to leave so I skipped preview mode before realizing that this was quite scattered!
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
It's a ploy. It's 40 Megs of subversive technology. Microsoft isn't removing those features -- they're only giving the appearance of doing so.
... DO NOT INSTALL THIS SERVICE PACK.
So while Microsoft features will be disabled (or hidden) by default initially, users will instead find themselves constantly (and frequently) inundated by those annoying, cartoonish Microsoft Agents that incessantly pop up (and under) windows asking you if you wish to switch back to Microsoft "product X". In addition, the traditional "Don't show this again" checkbox has been removed from all such dialog windows.
I repeat
Hmm, I guess it must have been a case of mistaken identity when I downloaded that "Windows 98 Service Pack 1" at home from that renowned hax0r site "Windows Update".
Good to see Microsoft on the ball again, I'd hate to see them spreading FUD to look like they were going to extreme lengths to comply with the antitrust provisions.
<!-- DHTML / JavaScript menu, popup tooltip, Ajax scripts -->
As of this moment I will no longer read Slashdot...
Why? Because I have come to the conclusion that most of us - me included are all hypocrites. We condemn Microsoft, promote Linux on slashdot and pretend we are making a difference. But when Microsoft releases their Service Pack which simply hides the programs that MADE them a monopoly I see a whole bunch of posters saying that they will now consider using WinXP...
WHAT THE FSCK?????!?!?!?
This is ass backwards logic people. The way you stimulate competition is not go flocking to one side when that side makes a token gesture especially when it is KNOWN that they are doing everything in their power to crush the competition. What we do is STOP using their products now. What we do is change to alternatives and create the critical mass that will induce real competition. When people ask you what you use, say "I use Linux and I love it". Show them... Don't give in...
I'm chucking Windows as of this moment and buying (yes buying) a distro. Time to put my talk into action.
That is because application developers embed Internet Explorer ourselves. We do not ask to embed a just any web browser from the OS.
As a developer, I am not sure I trust Netscape to expose or provide all the functionality I need. Right now, they do not. I would not like to support end-users swapping out components that I use and making my program potentially behave buggy. If I wanted to embed Netscape in my application, I would. Unfortunately, that is not possible today.
If you want your application to switch which web browser renders it's HTML content, you have to ask the developer to switch it in the program. Personally, I prefer IE and see no need to support anything else. Despite IE's bugs (which only surface more often because it is more popular / used more often and Microsoft is more hated), it still is a better browser in terms of functionality and security. Matthew Cameron
So what, if you've got half a brain you can use 3rd party apps now and set them as default. This whole M$ is evil thing just shits me. If you don't like it customise it or use Linux or Apple just stop bitchin' about it.
be vigilant, be pure, behave
better yet - leave xp to gates, use linux or mac os
MS is playing game with Justice Department. Money has bought justice for MS which is very sad. MS and its crap OS & Software can vapour and nothing will change. MS ultimate game plan is to run the whole worlds information
or u can just delete all instances of "hide"
in sysoc.inf
and uninstall it from
add remove windows components.
works for messengerand a few others too
So? People are in prison in the USA just for having black skin. They didn't even have to say anything, just having a certain skin color was enough. "Land of the free" indeed.
Go on admit it. You want the blue curvy crap. YOU KNOW YOU WANT IT! You can't get enough of that blue curvy crap. MMMMMMMMMMMMM blue curvy crap...
I'm confused... what do the government want? Do they want the middleware API to be fully documented so a 3rd party can provide a different version?
From my experience in COM, and component technology, is that programmers tend to test there software based on certain 'side-affects' of a particular component. In other words, the calling code expects the component to behave in a particular way (although not specified by the interface and/or documentation), be it bugs or just certain features not described properly.
If a 3rd party plugs in a different component and follows the interface specs properly, the calling code may 'act' incorrectly because certain behaviour was expected.
So, I guess what I'm really asking is... are the middleware interfaces documented enough to limit this problem?
It most certainly DOES come with both scripting and a mail client.
Sheesh.
If you want to whine about Windows, fine, but at least get it right....
Microsoft have done stranger things... no, let me rephrase that... Microsoft have done many stranger things, but I wouldn't expect them to make an OS truly more modular immediately after telling a court that this was impossible, and before the hearings had ended.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
...sue your ass off if you're caught with a dud copy. No carrot, just a very big stick. In some countries, you can face a mandatory minimum of 8 years in jail for software piracy, regardless of the actual value (or sticker price) of the software.
Of course, the other kind of software piracy - actions by large software companies which are effectively extortion, stealing or dumping - goes widely unpunished by the courts. We-the-people have started to take matters into their own hands, worldwide. For example, Australian schools, having just paid tens of millions of dollars to Microsoft, are eyeing off the `$100 million' worth of Microsoft software donated (with attendant tax writeoff) to South African schools, and starting to ask questions. Soth Africans are starting to ask questions, too, like `why did they wait until it lookerd like an Open Source alternative was going to take off in SA?' and `how long will this deal really last, and what will it cost afterwards?'
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Regardless of the rating, the statements are true.
That is why Microsoft likes the fake settlement so much. It grants to them more than they had before they began violating the law.
NexuSys - Linux support by the best
So if this is true, then Micosoft go out of its way just to make sure the secury holes stay open !!!