Slashdot Mirror
BMG Stops Producing CDs
An Anonymous Cow writes "The register has a new story about claims by Bertelsmann that they'll stop manufacturing uncrippled audio CDs. More can be found on Bertelsmann's own site (info by region, Europe only). Trouble playing it in your car stereo? According to BMG the error is your player's, and not their CD's. Quote: 'As far as we were advised, our copy protection is according to the Red Book Standard as well as all labelling on the cd.' In English: they don't even find it necessary to indicate on the CD cover that it's copy protected, nor do they think it advisable to listen to Philips' objections against using the CD logo on crippled discs, instead there's a label claiming that the CD is fully Red Book-compliant. It looks like this is a test case, because only all European CDs will be crippled."
How can you claim an unplayable disk is red-book compliant?
What! No more "Greatest Bach hits?"
"You killed my yogurt!" --Fred Fredburger
The correct term is "differently abled CD's"
: )
Don't read this!
No wonder they complain about decreasing CD sales if they stop shipping CDs...
False Advertising...
How about BMG create their own standards and call it something else?
I am sure this will lead to more sales, because everyone knows when you spit in the customers eye and take away their ability to do that which they did before, they always reward you for it.
--Joey
Your scrambled ToC is no match for my superior patch cable and audio in!
There is nothing wrong with being gay. It's getting caught where the trouble lies.
Well, if I can no longer spend my hard-earned money on CDs that will play on the various CD players around my house (including, I might add, the one in my computer), guess I'll have to resort to just downloading the songs instead from whatever Napster-clone I decide to use at the time... And all this time I thought they WANTED us to be buying their CDs... Sheesh!
Now we can do a blanket boycott of all BMG and BMG imprinted music.
Does anyone know what labels are under BMG?
Is this the same group that I occasionaly get SPAM mail about buying 12 CDs for one penny (plus outrageous shipping charges)?
If so, then all of a sudden I suppose my e-mail program will now be unable to display their message (even though it's just a standard e-mail).
If you BUY their products, you will only encourage them.
If you stop paying for their products, the RIAA and MPAA won't have money to pay congressmen/women for laws like the DMCA.
... we all still have kazaa, right?
... if it doesn't play in my one and only CD player (my computer) then it will go back to the store and they will hear my complaints. I have also taken up writing (paper version) letters to these companies when something like this doesn't work. I guess I wont be buying any music from BMG from now on, should save me some effort. Although I will write them a letter about it.
An optimist believes we live in the best world possible; a pessimist fears this is true.
"BMG attaches great importance to assuring that the copy protection used does not lead to restrictions for consumers with respect to listening pleasure. Those who play back their purchased product on a standard home CD Audio player will not notice any difference at all."
... New trends and
talents can only emerge if music is bought..."
Does this mean that I cannot listen to CDs on my computer without being concidered a consumer without respect to listening pleasure?
"In the long term, massive copying deprives music-makers of their very livelihood.
I prefer listening to musicians who play music because they enjoy it, not for the money. As for the veri livelihood, I'd say that the ability to sample non-mainstream artists without having to stand in line at my local music store has made me by more CDs than ever before. I suggest that this assumption is down right wrong.
"...this decline is attributed to a large extent to unauthorised CD-R copying."
Or perhaps due to a downwards tendency of the entire economy. Sales will fluctuate, so don't blame the customers, make new and better products.
Seriously. It seems to me that if they are going to be using the CD logo (even stating outright that the disk is compliant to Red Book standards) that Philips should be able to haul them to court over improper and misleading usage of Philip's trademark.
Don't know if Philips has enough interest in doing so, though. After all, removing the mark from these "discs that kind of look like CDs" would probably make zero difference to the buying public, but would in fact remove a (probably small) revenue stream for Philips (BMG would no longer need to licence the trademark for their packaging).
Look at the tomato! Isn't it sad? He can't dance! Poor tomato!
The disc may be barely compliant with the red book specs for cd audio, but the changes to the 'redundant' data to throw data decoders will ensure the error handling capability is serverely reduced. One scratch could literally kill your CD. Thing is, the majority of consumer electronics firms are rapidly going in the MP3 direction (hence data drives) which would spit out 'protected discs'. This is the manufacturing industry going one way and the media industry going the other. That leaves the consumers caught between a rock and a hard place. :-(
As long as one can hear the contents on a cd-player, computer or no, the content is rippable. The quality loss on your suggestion is minimal, I don't think anyone sane can hear the difference.
"All out books are completely normal and qualify for Library of Congress cataloging... we've simply removed the text as a precautionary measure to defeat the thieving scum of the world." says spokesman Yanash Smythe.
A man talking sense to himself is no madder than a man talking nonsense not to himself.
I suspect they're engaged on some wacko conspiracy: "Do as much as we can to lose money and then blame it on customers. And then, once we've reached bottom, we'll ... um ... well, we haven't figured that part out yet. Our goal is to simply piss off consumers, hit bottom, and then blame folks."
What's interesting is that three years ago I was an active CD buyer. I was constantly buying stuff at Best Buy, was a member of all the CD clubs (even though that wasn't making anyone much money), and buying CDs on-line weekly.
Now, I've stopped. I won't buy another CD because I have no idea whether or not it will play in what I want to play it in, and I have absolutely no desire to try to bring it back to a place like Best Buy or send it back to a place like CDNOW or Amazon.com.
Instead, I'm enjoying my "old" CDs, installed my old Technics phonograph, and actively search out obscure stuff -- mostly CDs, some vinyl -- in local record stores. My music listening experience has gone way, way up, and I'm spending less than ever -- but finding stuff I like.
And I'll occasionally drop into Kazaa to listen to new stuff and try and determine, say, why Justine Timberlake is putting out new albums that sound like vintage Michael Jackson or why U2 and Aerosmith insist on putting out a new greatest hits album every other week or why Bob Dylan's *old* stuff is far and away better than anything he's put out since Infidels (which was, IMHO, the last good Dylan album). But that's about it.
So, yes, to the RIAA I say this: if your goal is to piss-off customers and lose them permanently -- congratulations!
If it does not work, take them back to the store. Demand your money back.
I was under the assumption that Sony and Phillips owned all the rights to the use of the CD Logo and the right to claim that a CD is Red Book compliant. I'm sure Phillips will file suit against this.
This is all just an attempt by a dying industry to save itself. With the advent of P2P file sharing services and the now defunct Napster, people don't NEED record companies any more to distrinute their music or to give them their music.
In my ideal world, the music would be available for download from some web site by an artist and then a CD/DVD is made with lots of value add stuff, such as 5.1 surround mixes, possible music videos, etc.
It was good while it lasted. Guess it's time to stop buying my music and start stealing it like everyone else. :(
yeah that makes great business sense, tackle mp3 and piracy by selling loyal customers faulty discs, why dont they just tell people to download music it would be a more direct aproach
They are going to produce a product which is the same size as a CD, and even looks the same. But if it won't play on a CD player then it's not a CD.
...because of this whole war they are waging on their customers.
Do you?
Watch as a new generation of young people (ages 6 through 16) hit Kazaa. Then Gnutella when Kazaa shuts down. When Peekabooty when P2P is getting hammered by **IA.
It's great news! I'm not being sarcastic. When they have to go to such lengts to protect a dead business model, all we have to do is sit back and laugh. And teach our familes how to use WinAmp or iTunes.
They FUNNY SHIT is this... I'd gladly pay PER SONG for an OGG download. But $20 for crap on an obsolete medium (CD's)? HA! Never...
Again, in short, they are dying and this is the first sign. enjoy the ride, you'll tell your grandkids about this.
nt
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
How does it come that some contries get the page in their native language (Germany, Poland, Italy, etc.) while some get it in English (Sweden, Spain, Austria (a german speaking country!), France, etc.) And since all sites look the same except for the map-picture and the contact info, why not spare us the hazzle of a choice, simply put all in english on one site and supply different contacts.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
When you copy protect a CD, it is no longer a CD, since it is not Red Book compliant. Therefore the title is technically accurate.
And make it very clear in writing ( polite, paper mail ) why its being done.
If they continue with the plan, I guess we all just have to find a way to rip them onto a cdR that isnt crippled so we can use what we own in the car, at work, etc..
If we dont stop it, then the others will follow suit shortly afterwards.
I wonder what Phillips has to say about this whole thing.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
The Phillips/Sony Red Book Standard states that and Compact Disc that is created with this standard format will be compatible will nearly all CD players. BMG and thier false claim that thier "crippled" CD are Red Book compliant is outrageous. Once again this is just another reason why people use P2P servers to get thier music fix.
Furthermore, does BMG really think that producing "crippled" CDs will bring an end to CD burning and ripping. I for one have a Sony audio CD player connected to my sound card and if I cannot rip or burn a CD due to "crippling" I just pop that CD into the Sony player and rip it from there. It works great and has not flawed yet.
[n8.r0n] http://petesweb.spymac.net/
No corporation, and especially a company involved in selling audio CDs, would commit financial suicide by releasing only crippled CDs...
No, the better approach would be to surreptitiously release random batches of crippled CDs and label any consumer complaints to "manufacturing problems"...
Audio CDs cost what? Less than a Euro to produce, including packaging?
If this is true (and I doubt it), i guess BMG doesn't manufacture car stereos? Corporations like Sony, which make CD drives, would never take this tack, as it would be the left hand slitting the throat while the right hand tries to stem the spurting blood...
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
Us consumers in the US can look to our government to stand up to this overt attack on our rights! Politicians in Washington aren't going to let these big record companies galavant about stomping on our rights!
After all, this is our culture that we're talking about. Surely the music of the time belongs to the people, right!? It's ours to share, the same as our wisdom and our stories, with each other freely. We all know that the progression of culture depends on the constant cycle of old becoming new, new artists seeking inspiration from those that went before.
I'm confident that the new government in Washington will honor these sacred things. We're all in good hands now!
Let's all have a glass of Victory Gin!
My Karma was at 49, then they switched to words. All that work for nothing!
An analogy. You try to get a restraining order against some guy. The judge throws it out of court for lack of grounds. So you keep crank calling him, and egging his car, until he is so ticked off that you actually do need the protection.
---
When you come to a fork in the road, take it! --Yogi Berra--
"CD" is a registered trademark and represents a standard. ( ok ok, so its the abberviation of compact disc, but same thing applies )
Once you break that standard you cant use the term, thus they arent "CD's" anylonger.
Donno what you call them.. besides incompatible garbage.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
No, it is absolutely and totally correct. To be a "CD" your disc must conform to the CD standard as published by Philips. If BMG isn't going to produce discs that conform to the standard, then they aren't producing CDs anymore. They're selling some other kind of disc. So, no, they are not planning to sell CDs; they are planning on selling copy-protected crippled discs (CPCDs?).
It's a big difference. If the reason your CD fails is the music industry, it's their fault. If the reason your CD fails is because Philips made a faulty CD reader, then Philips is to blame. That would cause a loss in reputation, force them to recall their "faulty" stock, and change their manufacturing process.
I know we'll eventually find a way around this copy-protection, I have no worries about that. What bothers me is the "Suck It Down!"(c) attitude BMG is taking on forcing people to buy new hardware if the disc doesn't work. I think they have the relationship between consumer and manufacturer switched. It's not like they are gracing our lowly presence, the hoi polloi, with goods they toss to us like slop to pigs.
"Here, this should be good enough for all of you. Too bad if you don't like it. Sooooooooooouuuuuuuiiiiiiiii!"
And yet they seem to act that way when trying to herd us all into something like this. I am a consumer, dagnabbit! I should be telling these companies what I want, and make sure they give it to me. It is the consumers who should be dictating where the market goes. But who is still listening to us? When did things change? Consumers have rights, use them!
Zech Harvey, MCSE, MCDBA, CCNA
Ford has no intention of "stopping production of cars" - it simply intends to make them with two wheels and instead steering wheel they use handlebars.
... felt tip marker sales soar through the roof
No more buying CD's from Bertelsmann.
Thinking of it, i dont think i have any.
The solution is simple: don't buy their stuff. Or, if you do, just capture it into a more convenient format through an analog channel--even with a simple setup, you get quality that is basically indistinguishable from the original. And I wonder how many people will end up returning the CD after making a copy...
I do hope you mean "limited to", or the Atlantic just got a little wider.
I guess I'll just have to stop buying CDs and start downloading more MP3s then. From people who've made slightly noisy, but free copies from their stereos.
BMG runs like every label... watch as the independent labels that don't give a crap stick with regular cds, and the whole pro recording world falls down like a house of cards (hopefully) yay for local bands that don't use crippled cds!
stuff |
This is just getting more and more stupid. I'm not going to go download stuff from Kazaa just get, for one the effort it'd take to get it going in Wine combined with the general nastyness of the software and illegallity of it has put me off until now. I'm waiting for (and soon hopefully doing something about) the gift economy as a new model for music distribution, but there are quite a few technical and social hurdles to overcome first.
How long can the music industry keep this up though before what happened to Microsoft with Linux happens to the RIAA - the little people come out of the woodwork and come up with something new? Not long at this rate. Not long at all.
Good thing they are going to stop making CD's, seeing as how I stopped buying CD's years ago when Napster came along. Of course, I've also recently stopped downloading MP3's now that I have 40 gigs of them to listen to ;)
Buying US-sourced CDs from sites like play.com is cheaper than most sources of UK releases...
European music sales will plummet as far more people buy imports instead....
I've stopped bying CDs a long time ago. They're a rip-off. Prices for CDs have done anything but drop and the content is getting more vapid. THe labels have been ass-raping it's own consumers for decades even before copy protection. Look how the likes of Columbia House and BMG suckered poor innocents into their mail order services. They got your attention with a cheap deal and hooked you in for a good couple of years. They sent you crap everymonth weather you liked it not keaving some with an enormous bill for quite poossibly the worst music ever produced.
Bah! Damn all the labels to hell. Let rise the new distribution for the people.
--
"There ought to limits to freedom"
--G. W. Bush at a Press conference at the Texas State House, May 21, 1999, referring to GWBush.com
As well as taking the CD back and explaining why you are returning it, why not write to the artist themselves. I know if i had mail from fans saying they returned the discs because they wouldn't play I'd be making some phone calls.
If I like an artist's music, I will buy the CD. I always have done. However, I have no Audio CD player at home, only the CDROM in my PC. So if all these news CD's coming out are not playable on my CDROM then I won't buy them. And I'll have to go elsewhere for my music. No prizes for guessing where...
Exactly. This will only hurt online sales as I can guarantee 99% of the buying public has no idea what redbook means. All they know is it does not play and they want their money back. Mailing back a CD will frustrate many users. Not to meantion tech support not knowing what the hell is wrong.
BMG will NEVER do this.
This is what intel tried with RDRAM. The market corrected them quickly and they suffered tremendously for it.
Yep, hit 'em where it hurts!
It's the ONLY power we have, let's use it.
that Aerosmith's "just push play" is listed on the "known corrupt cd's" list on fat chuck's?
(link on register site, near the bottom)
Isnt there also the problem with the fact that if you cant make a backup/copy of your music, then that violates your fair use rights (we have that in the EU right?) yeah? So then, this shouldnt be to hard to stop. Also, I am sure that this kind of copy protection would make it even worse when a cd gets scratched....more cd purchases....couldnt make a copy, the original gets a bit scratched, buy it again....
so then, technically, according to these labels, we are not buying the rights to listen to the music, we are just buying the rights to listen to the music ON THIS MEDIUM....which i dont think can possibly be true...
and the thing that i found amusing is that the BMG people said that it may not work on certain car CD players....amazing....but the funny thing is that this should piss off some suits (imagine some BMW driving idiot lawyer....hey, my britney cd isnt playing....).....
all you are, is all you are, i'm so sorry for you.
A quote from BMG's website:
Two years ago, on a worldwide basis, one digital copy was made for every three music CDs sold. Last year, that ratio had shrunk dramatically to one-to-two. In 2001, for every CD album sold, one copy was burned.
Actually the statistic I read is that in 2001 for every CD album sold, one CD-R disc was sold. Obviously we can't assume that every single CD-R disc sold in the world was used to copy a copyrighted CD. Based on my experience in statistics and research methods regarding sampling and surveys(Psych major),I'm fairly confident that no one will ever be able to claim how many CD-R's were actually used to copy copyrighted material, so any numbers they throw at us should not be believed.
My personal theory is that the surge of independent music(which is easily accesible on the internet)is really why the major labels sales are down. Not only is independent music usually better, but it's available for free on P2P's all the time(which is why killing Kazaa/Gnucleus/etc. would seriously hurt the independent musician, and give more power back to major labels). I guess I'm preaching to choir here at slashdot though.
Most of the time, I boycot the large CD-stores, such as the Free Record Shop, because their prices are ridiculous (say, $20-$22 for a stupid CD? Come on!)
When I buy a CD, I explicitly ask if it will play on my computer because I don't even *have* a regular CD player (because I don't need it, and I'm a student so don't want to spend money on things I don't even need..). Usually I directly rip 'em to ogg, nowadays.
If they tell me it will play but it doesn't I return it and ask my money back (btw. the smaller music stores usually don't lie about this anyway, so it's not a problem). Before I buy an album I usually have listened to it on MP3 anyway, so though luck for the artists I wanted to sponsor...
If they tell me it won't play, I don't buy it, but download it instead - you get what you deserve, after all, Record Labels!
Every expression is true, for a given value of 'true'
/Begin Rant. This is a long one folks.
/End rant
If and when this bahavior reaches the U.S., I simply stop buying CDs. I will download every album off the internet and send money to the artists directly. This kind of crap just pisses me off and makes me flaming mad. Not everybody is a pirate. Over the past year, I have downloaded and then purchased at least 150 CDs. That's a crapload of money, and if the the RIAA doesn't want it, that's fine with me.
When I buy a CD, it's mine. I can do with it as I please. That includes copying it onto my computer so I can take it anywhere I want, including sending copes of it to work, my car, my portable player, anything. I've already had problems with protected CDs not playing in my car.
The RIAA is putting me on a warpath, and I will not stop. I will not buy crippled CDs with jacked up TOCs. This is the end. Since I don't have millions of dollars to fight the RIAA I'll hit them where it hurts: their pockets.
And what of the average consumer? They want simplicity. They want things to work. I can't see myself explaining to friends that they can't play their CD on their computer or in their car because they might 'copy it'. The RIAA needs to get their head out of their arse and work towards the future, developing good digital formats. Suing your own customers and strangling your consumer base is just stupid. It amazes me that companies fail time and time again to make good decisions that a baby could make.
Oh and to the RIAA: the reason your music sales are down is because your music blows chunks. I bought less CDs this year, and lots of them were extremely talented independent artists or releases on smaller labels. You might think, but wait, he said he bought 150 this year! So think of how many I bought last year. I'm not interested in the latest Britney, Christina, R&B, Nickelback, pre-packaged crap. Every time I turn on the radio I literally hear the same playlist over and over.
I am so close to losing my mind.
Thanks for reading people.
If a million monkeys randomly pounded on keyboards, they would all log into AOL.
Most of the Crippled CD's I've seen so far were for the really big-name, sellout artists like 'I'm in so much pain when I sing' Celine Dion. Also, might this just cause record companies to drop the artists that complain, getting rid of yet more intelligent, principled artists that care about their fans?
I have a lot of digital music in my music collection, I also have lots of actual CD's. I understand how commerce works and that if I don't "buy" something to support the folks making the music, I know that it probably will not continue to get made. People work for money, and making music IS work.
So that being said... I still buy CD's. I will almost always listen to a CD from a copied digital version first. If the CD is good enough I buy it.
The first CD I buy that DOESN'T work in my cd player(s) is the last CD I buy. Period. That is unacceptable to me. When that day comes I will have to track down lots of names and addresses so I can send the artist money directly, or buy more shirts to help support them.
It's probably a waste of time, but what the hey. There were only 1734 signers when I signed today - let's /. it! SIGN HERE!
the music i buy is not distributed by any of the major labels so this doesnt affect me at all.
:)
maybe all the idiots listening to britney spears and all the other teen hookers (hello christina aguilera) though will get annoyed enough and stop buying their CDs.
maybe we should start a movement or sth.: buy any copy protected cd, 30minutes later return it saying it doesnt play in your car player. take another copy protected cd instead, and 30minutes do the same. come again the next day, and the day after and maybe someday your friendly clerk will be annoyed enough and will stop ordering them.
buy then why should we have the work when it seems that BGM has already dug their own grave! relax everyone, soon everything is over
keep it simple.
"...One scratch could literally kill your CD."
Sounds like they want stem piracy and to increase cash flow by resales because of "SCRATCHED" CDs. That's what they liked about vinyl. When you just can't stand the POPS & SKIPS on "Dark Side Of The Moon" any more, you buy another copy. How did you think it stayed on the Billboard Top 100 for over 10 YEARS! Damn those seeds!!!
It also reduces the second-hand CD sales like Half.com. Some indipendent music stores were being pressured by the record companies not handle "Used CDs" (...or is it Perviously Owned?).
Any way you look at it, increased cash flow is the main motive. Buy once, buy often.
>> Practice Safe Hex
There's about 200 of them all told. This is a HUGE company. The major subdivisions (just in the record division, they own a lot in other areas too) are Arista, J Records, RCA Music Group, and BMG Asia, Latin, Europe, Music Publishing, and Distribution. I couldn't find a thorough listing of their 200+ front labels, but I think that if you look at the fine print they'll all say something about being associated with Arista, J Records, RCA, or BMG something or other...
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
Friends don't let friends enable ecmascript.
Kind of threw me off there "BMG Stops Producing CDs" hmm so where is all htier money going to come from :p
History will be kind to me, for I intend to write it - Sir Winston Churchill
Look at this press release just two days ago:
Listen.com Secures CD Burning License From BMG for Rhapsody Music Subscription Service
BMG Becomes Third Major Label to Offer Its Catalog for Burning Through Rhapsody; Subscribers Can Now Burn More Than 90,000 Tracks for 99 Cents Each
Coincidence?
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
BMG employee's are outnumbered here.. got that?
I have a bunch of CD's and cassetes from good bands that you can no longer buy (many of these bands no longer exist). I've put some of them on my computer as mp3. For the cassete ones you can STILL put it into mp3 format. It takes more work and time. But honestly the quality is super.
I've also taken concert mp3 and put them on minidisc. Analog. Again it sounds fine.
I do use the fiber cable to take cds-> mini-disc. I don't think the copy prevention stops that.
No matter how they try, it's difficult to stop us from using the music we buy the way we like to, especially audio. I think they should concentrate on those that republish copywrited work and stop worrying about those that are still buying product.
I think it's ok that BMG jumps into the deadpool.
This is kinda an example how CD protection is going to fail, because now ppl don't have to inform themselves which CDs are nonfunctional, just look out for the BMG logo and you'll know.
Since BMG is a huge company they won't crash and burn because of this, but I'm sure they'll get their scars, and if not BMG itself maybe other labels/publishers will learn from this lesson.
So, go protection go!
Let's see how the sales go down...
>----- Original Message -----
>From:
>To:
>Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2002 4:34 PM
>Subject: WG: New Paradise Lost album
>
>
>Dear Mr. Barber,
>we are sorry you have troubles with our copy protection technology. The
>copy protection reacts on the special new technology that is build in
>in burners. Unfortunately htis technics was built in many new cd >players, even if they can't can't copy a cd. The copy protection yet
>does not recognize wheather that burner technics is build in a cd
>player or in a burner. That's why the cd playern might not play a copy
>protected CD. Since burner technics are also built in car radios, this
>may be the reason, why you can't listen to a copyprotected cd in your
>car. As far as we were adviced, our copy protection is according to the
>Red Book Standart as well as all labelling on the cd.
>A standart home CD player is one that has no burner technics built in. Our
>Cds play on all Cd players without burner technics.
>There will be no cd manufactured without copyprotection any more.
>Sincerely
>BMG Kopierschutz Team
>
> > ----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
> > Von: Simon Barber > > Gesendet: Dienstag, 29.Oktober 2002 14:08
> > An: info@bertelsmann.de
> > Betreff: New Paradise Lost album
> >
> >
> > Sir,
> > I have purchased the new Paradise Lost album "Symbol Of Life" which
> > has the CDS200 copy protection technology. As this disc is not a
> > proper Red Book standard disc, I was wondering the following:
> >
> > 1) Why does the disc have the Compact Disc Digital Audio logo on it
> > if it's clearly not a fully compliant CD.
> >
> > 2) Why does the disc not play in my car?
> >
> > 3) Regarding the small print - what exactly is a 'standard home CD
> > player'? It appears that my Red Book compliant hi-fi has
> > difficulties playing the disc.
> >
> > I would appreciate a response to my queries and also where I may
> > obtain a disc that actually adheres to the Red Book standard and
> > will play in the devices listed above.
> >
> > I have also contacted Philips regarding point (1).
> >
> > Regards,
> > Simon Barber
Up until now, I've been trying to work with the music companies. Sure, I download the occasional stuff from P2P systems, but I always make a point of buying the CD's of the stuff that I like. With BMG's decision, I see absolutely no reason to continue to play nice with them.
Of course really, I can't remember the last time I bought a CD from a major label. Most of the artists I listen to are on smaller labels or aren't on any label at all and, interestingly enough, give away their CD's to advertise. It is safe to say though that I'm not going to encourage BMG to go and sell deffective merchandise. So, when I do find myself in a position of buying from BMG, and I discover that I can't convert that CD to my preferred listening format (MP3), I'll return it to the store and BMG will suffer for it, not me.
...since me and a lot of other European consumers have already quit buying BMG CDs after they begun experimenting with crippled "CDs". We will just continue to buy our music on CDNOW or other American sites instead. Or just download it from a nearby P2P network - hey that also makes it free!
Now let me wheigh my options... Crippled "CD" with no possibility of portability, OR, MP3s which I can make into a real red-book audio CD?
The choice is easy, people.
I made the mistake of buying the new Foo Fighters album without reading the small print (...contains copy control technology, will play on a PC (windows) using software contained on the disc...). So I feared the worst by the time I got it home. However, it plays fine in WinAmp, rips without problems with Audiograbber, and plays fine in XMMS under linux. So either their copy control technology is useless, or they're trying something sneaky, whatever that may be.
Incidentally, the Compact Disc logo doesn't appear on any of the packaging or the disc itself.
-hgavin
If they can pull it off in Europe (the hardest place to do it, thanks to EU governments being less friendly), they can pull it off anywhere.
Better than deciding your scheme works in the US and hitting a brick wall in Europe.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
Newer soundcards have optical digital inputs. Just find a half-decent CD deck with a digital out, mine cost under $150, connect the two optical connections et volia! A perfect digital copy ...
No? Look at the aggressive line that they're taking. "These are RedBook CD's and the problem is in your player". You can bet your life that they'll pass this position on to retaillers and make it 100% clear that they won't be accepting "bad media" returns on these disks.
So try taking one of these crippled music disks back to MonstroMart and claiming that it doesn't play in your CD player. Last month they'd have taken it back (maybe), and that cost Bertelsmann money. This month, they'll trot out the "the fault is in your player" line like the loyal little appendages that they are and stonewall you, because of two things. One, they know that it's not like you've got a choice in how you obtain music in the future, because every store will be carrying crippled disks, and two, if it turns out that your daddy is a lawyer, they can always point the finger at Bertelsmann and claim that ze vere only obeying orders.
Those people predicting a drop in sales that will scare off other music behemoths need to take a clue pill. Mandy Music Buyer doesn't read The Register or Slashdot, and she won't know about these crippled disks until she buys one. She'll buy the disk, then find out that it's crippled. Sure, she'll be pissed off if she can't play it in her mom's SUV's CD player (Mandy Music Buyer is 12-18, remember), but what's she going to do? Stop buying music disks? Friends, if she's still buying them today, she's not going to switch to kazaa or gnutella tomorrow. She's going to keep buying them and whine at her mommy that the man at the music store said the SUV's CD player was broken.
And heck, let's say I'm wrong, and sales do take a noticable dip. What are BMG going to blame it on? Their own greed and stupidity? Hahahaha! I'll give you short odds on "global economy" or (more likely) that this proves that people are thieves and criminals, and that we need Fritz chips right now to preserve Truth, Justice and the American Way. It's win-win for them, and all our outraged ranting won't make it otherwise.
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Remember when they used to print black text on a dark black background for game "code books" to keep people from photocopying them (And then being able to copy and run the game without owning it)?
Exactly how does this work, slashdot wants to know. Do you lose part of the first track, and just how wide does the marking have to be? If I can read between the lines, the "crippling" involves munging the TOC data in some way? If it can't read this bogus data, I guess the player just starts playing tracks at the point it can read, thus treating it as a read error, and recovering the stream if it can. Is that about right?
Doesn't this also mean that you can still read off the disk as data (computer CD player), and ignore the bogus TOC data? Windows probably won't cooperate, but other OSs should, right?
The non-CDs are clearly labeled as such. They carry the BMG logo. If the box has the BMG on it, then the thing in the box is not a CD. Don't buy it. It's that simple.
I have not bought a single CD since the RIAA started it's campaign aginst it's own customers. I figure if I want this kind of abuse I would run windows. :-)
Go ahead flame away!
Got hosting
Well, interestingly enough, BMG doesn't just violate Philips IP, but makes a habit of it, as techno fans can confirm. In 2000, Sony and BMG created waves by "reverse engineering" Underground Resistance's "Jaguar" (since UR, typically wouldn't licence it to one of their stupid compilations). Sony eventually took too much heat for their cheek, and passed thetrack on to BMG, who showed all the shame we've come to expect from them.
There's a story here http://www.undergroundfiles.com/ur.html
What I find interesting is the assumption that consumers have to buy music, and especially buy it on a compact disc. Last I looked, buying music on a CD is an option.
Besides, what this is all about is the music. And when I buy a CD, I'm buying the right to personally use the music.
-- $G
well, \me stops buying BMG, then...
This is not going to stop a song from appearing on your favorite P2P app.. All it takes for that is ONE person to rip it digitally or via analog inputs and share it out or post on usenet. What this MAY curb is the average computer USER like Sally burning a copy of the CD she bought for Jill at the office or for a friend after school. Obviously someone feels that is a major threat also and they are trying to find a way to prevent that.
Maybe I'm wrong and they honestly think this will prevent the songs from showing up in mp3 format somewhere..
I rip all of my cd's to MP3 to play in my enabled car stereo, dvd unit, portable, and my lan. I will not buy a cd that will not allow me to do that. I will simply wait till I find it with KaZaa.
Bad boys rape our young girls but Violet gives willingly.
I buy maybe ten CDs a year and extract the audio to listen to like I want. If they do this I won't be buying any because it would be easier to download them instead. Actually I probably won't be doing that either because there is almost no good music being released any more
Sig is taking a break!
It looks like a duck, but it doesn't quack like a duck.
Always going forward, 'cause we can't find reverse.
The record companies are complaining about dropping sales... Well, what do you think will happen when buying a CD is like spinning a roulette wheel, and you can't be sure it'll play on your stereo, much less your computer? Will people be willing to pay money for discs that may or may not work, and for which they probably won't be allowed to return if it doesn't?
They're shooting at thieves, but hitting themselves in the foot.
Heh jokes on them, I know exactly where to find the label. Look on the back of the case, if the BMG logo is there, it's crippleware.
I'm the big fish in the big pond bitch.
I'd like to point everyone to cdbaby.com.
It's the best record store I've found anywhere. It's full of independent artists in every genre you could want. They have a sweet feature where you search for a band you like, say Limp Bizkit or POD, and it gives you independent artists like Stink!#Bug or Burning Edge. All the albums for sale have at least half of their tracks available to listen to before you buy.
If you aren't happy you can send your CD back for a full refund.
They even have a wide selection of jazz and classical performances.
I guess the artists get a pretty fat percentage of the profits from the CD. Much more than they would get if they were signed with a major label.
I'm not affiliated with CD Baby in anyway except as a very happy customer. Super happy. Happy happy happy. I've never been so happy about my relationship with a business.
If you are like me, you love music but don't support the rape of artists by major labels. CD Baby is the best place I've found to satisfy my cravings for great tunes. All of the CDs I've purchased from them played on my computer just fine, and ripped to ogg with no problems.
obviously no deficiencies vs. no obvious deficiencies
I find this sentence especially amusing from the Bertelsmann's site :
"World music sales for the year 2001 fell by 5% in value and by 6,5% in units."
Blaming that music downloaders where the reason for the fell. I wonder if they remember that there was a recession in 2001, IT bubble broke and almost all industries fell into downswing. It would've been a miracle if CD sales hadn't dropped at all and 5% is LITTLE compared to the bankruptcies that other industries had to deal with.
(It's amazing that restaurants don't blame home cooks for the recession, stealing the recipes that they use, and using them free at home! can you see the analogy?)
Does anybody else remember WonkaVision? That was where a candy bar was imaged and digitized and sent across the room to be reassembled and eaten by Mike TV?
Of course in the real future, we'll just use food replicators. "Computer, I'll have a cup of Earl Grey with lemon."
"I went on a diet, swore off drinking and heavy eating. And in fourteen days, I had lost exactly two weeks. Joe E. Lewis
I fail to see the point of this. I mean, its just going to further drive consumers away from "perfect" or "digital" copies of music.
What's new? As the trend in online file swapping continues, MOST users ALREADY settle for NEAR CD quality copies (ala MP3, OGG, etc). What's going to stop me from connecting a damn recorder to the ANALOG outputs of these CD players and producing a NEAR CD quality copy? NOTHING (at least, as of yet).
I say, whatever. If they want to further alienate me and there other customers who are quite willing to purchase CD's as long as I can PREVUE them (and I'm not talking about a 30 second clip, I'm talking about the ENTIRE CD), than fuck 'em.
Is going to stop sending me coffee-cup compatable CDROMs?
One line blog. I hear that they're called Twitters now.
[lamenessfilterlamenessfilterlamenessfilterlame
Once more unto the breach, dear friends, once more, Or close the wall up with our American dead!
From now on, the "BMG" label tells enough: avoid this CD.
With respect to music, they seem to have pushed us too far. People are offended that they cannot rip the CDs, so they download the music instead. I am not sure if this is right or wrong. The latest Eminem album, while certainly a desire, is not a necessity, and, even though the record company does not lose money, no one makes money either. Perhaps if you buy a t-shirt, the artist makes money, but why have a t-shirt when you want the music?
The alternative, of course, is to stay away from the major labels. If the artist produces a CD and sells them at concerts or whatever, the artist gets the money. The labels would say that this is an inefficient business model that will not bring the best talent to the top, but who cares. There is, quite frankly, much more excellent talent out there than can be accommodated by any business model. We, as customers, might as well try to support artist rather than business models.
"She's a scientist and a lesbian. She's not going to let it slide." Orphan Black
Software giant Microsoft has announced that documentation for its Visual Studio family of products will now be available in printed form, using rich jet-black ink on a glossy dark purple paper.
"This is a printing idea we got from old copy protection symbol cards in the 1980's. It worked great for them, so it should keep people from illegally copying or using our documentation too!"
if too many complaints come to the shops, the shops stops to buy from BMG, can they afford this ?
I have a stash of about 1000 CDs bought in the 80's and early 90s, and I haven't bought a new CD in years. I have plenty of music to listen to for years to come, and all the CDs happily rip to MP3. Besides, good music died along with the 70s. All the new stuff coming out is just new tricks, and I'm such an old dog.
I call Bullshit!
This is nutz.
Well hopefully there will be somebody keeping track of all these crippled CD's like Consumer Reports does for products.
Fat Chucks does.
Ursula Andress, Catherine Deneuve, and Charo, twice...
I find this idea very intriguing. What if the artists suddenly started getting envelopes full of cash from downloads? A buck a song or something like that? I know not everyone would do it, but maybe it would start to unite the artists behind the listeners and stop the stupid "piracy is theft" campaigns. Maybe instead of a boycott, people should organize something like this. Boycott CD's, but download what you want to listen to. Then, send some cash directly to the artist, or maybe even some third party that would distribute directly to the artist. That way we could get around the problem of the studios getting the addresses of the downloaders.
What is "standard home CD players"?
I haven't used a "standard home CD players" in years. Oh, yes I have! It's called my computer. That's my standard home CD player.
I didn't even listen (directly) to the last CD I bought. I ripped it, encoded it, and listened to the MP3 files that I made from it.
The CD is safely stored away in the dark recesses of my CD rack.
People are calling for a boycott of BMG "CDs". I propse the exact opposite.. for a day. If you have expendable income, go to your local store that sells these crippled discs and buy as many as you can with a credit card. Open all of them, and return them all the next day, since "they won't play in your CD player". Macroeconomically this will nail BMG to the wall, as stores either send back the "damaged" discs en mass for credit from the mothership company, or simply stop buying BMG manufactured CDs since they can't sell them for a profit. Just a thought, a devilish one at that... arg.
Has anyone clued these companies into the fact that the line between living-room (containing "home audio equipment") and the computer room is blurring with each passing day? Is convenience offered by smart/versatile devices, like computers, really such a scary notion?
Uhh... who cares. I haven't bought a CD in 4 years.
Time for a poll, IMNSHO.
"Would you purchase a crippled CD if it was the only available commercial music support?"
Yeah! My ears are crippled too; I couldn't even hear the difference.
I'd buy only my favorite band/artist albums. Gotta complete my Breetneee Speeers collection.
Never! I'd never buy anything I can't copy and share worldwide on my p2p connection!
What CDs?!? - I'm happy with my CowboyNealTronics new Stereo8 deck, you insensitive clod.
...this is a desaster ! Especially since many DJs I know have migrated to MP3, with me currently archiving my collection to Ogg Vorbis... lifting one PC is easier than several hundred CDs (and you get cool search functionality and beatmixing with some programs, too).
;-)
:-)
I've found one CD so far that I'm pretty sure is copy protected (Genesis.1 single from VNV Nation), because it plays in normal CD players but not in the CD drive at my work. So I can't currently rip it (yes, I know that there are ways to circumvent that, but since it's just a single I don't care
But the real problem is that some friends of mine already had real problems with copyrighted CDs: they seem to get "jumpy" even with just slight scratches (which just occur when using them, even when being careful). It's always bad when people are dancing and suddenly get irritated because the music just stopped due to a bad CD (it's always the DJ's fault, mind you !
If anyone DOES buy a CD from BMG, exchange it a few times. Make it cost them 3-4 times as much to produce a crippled CD.
If the store has to eat the cost, they'll be quick to inform their customers of problems with the CD (decrease sales). If the store can put the cost back on the producer, then it'll be another hit on a dying business model.
Avril Lavignes CD rips just fine, now the CD is collecting dust in a box, and my xmms playlist is another few songs longer.
I already get some files from Kazaa... now if i cant even dump the files from a cd i bought, i'll probably never buy one again...
freddo
I recently borrowed one of these "enhanced" or whatever cd's from a friend. Although it was in pretty good shape, it was a little skippy on my 1 year old aiwa CD player in my car. Even when it didn't skip, audio quality just didn't sound right, although IANAA (audiophile). I have older (8-9 year old) scratched up CD's that play fine, though. What gives?
With recent stories that sales are down, here's a reason other than piracy to blame... you simply can't play them in your player, so why buy them at all?
Will the other distributors start shipping CDs with labels stating that they are not copy protected? This would effectively side-step the whole "is it a CD or not" debate and leave BMG screwed.
...for your own weakness.
If nobody buys their product, they won't have any money to do anything. I know I haven't bought a book, DVD, or cd in the past 3 years (except at the pre-owned places) and haven't missed out on anything.
Dear Sir,
thankyou for clarifying the situation for me. My CD player cannot play the copy protected CD's and, due to poor labelling on CD's, I have had a lot of trouble knowing which CD's I shouldn't buy.
Now that I know all BMG produced CD's in Europe are to be copy-protected, it makes my purchasing easier; I'll stop buying CD's altogether. It's no hardship really, as the content on most of these CD's is not worth losing sleep over.
Yours sincerely
Shhh! Don't say such things on /. It might take away the nice warm feeling some people around here get in their tummy by overdoing the "Help, I'm being suppressed!" act. Watch Monthy Python's Holy Grail and you'll see what you are taking away from them.
What are these "CD's" of which you speak? I'll be really pissed when they start copy-protecting vinyl.
||:|::
It's a valid CD. It's just not a valid CD-ROM, which confuses players that care about such things. Unfortunately this hits many high-end players and all those nifty automotive cd-players that can do MP3s..
There are plenty of CDs out there that lack "copy protection" mechanisms. Go out and buy those.
You can actually insert them into a book of ANY color and they will sound equally nice. On the other hand, if you try to insert them into Laser-Equipped Rotary Acousticifiers used by Music Pirates (in p1ra73sp33ch known as "CD players" or even "drives") they will instantly melt and render those devices unusable. They might even try to ass-rape those evildoers who try to deprive starving artists of the little income the record companies^w^wSTAGNATING SALES BECAUSE OF PIRACY leave them.
Free as in mason.
If you BUY their products, you will only encourage them.
But if you don't TELL them you've stopped buying their products, they assume it's just a sales slump, and devote more time, energy, and most of all MONEY to passing bad laws and trying to enforce copy-protection. After all, they already KNOW what causes sales slumps -- piracy and P2P applications. (Never mind the facts, they know the truth.)
So as I've said before (and nobody, apparently, was listening), it's not enough to just stop buying. You have to tell them about it, too.
I'm not a geek, I'm just a clever script.
When did this happen? A trip to the BMG site and a click on Spain, France etc. only brings up the English text. That will really piss off the folks in the EU.
That's it I'm done...I used to buy CDs (10-50/year so not a ton) and not download any MP3s. I'd rip my own and didn't steal because although the RIAA are useless robber barons it was their music officially. That's what happens when artists sell their soul, the robber barons profit.
That said, you've now seen the last of my CD purchases. I'm not putting up with this crap anymore. I am now an all out thief. If I can't get CDs that work in the equipment I've had for 10 years then screw em I don't need CDs. I can download, swap, and P2P my library to 10 times the size that I could afford and what the idiots don't recognize is that if you can play it trough a speaker I can re-record it at a clean enough quality that mp3s will sound as good as a ripped one. (granted I have access to some high end recording gear for live performances of my former band)
These people are idiots. Thanks for spitting on my boys...get ready because I'm working up a lugie of my own, now.
I haven't bought many CDs in recent years, but I was just about to start again. I probably will buy one or two in the next weeks.
When I'm buying my CD, I will explain to them about this, and I want to know for sure that my computer can read it (it's the only CD player I have). I want a money back guarantee from them, or at least the right to swap my CD for another if it doesn't work. And if they refuse, I'll take my business elsewhere. It's not much, but there aren't many stores that don't care about selling stuff.
I want the stores to know that they're missing revenue and exactly why that's happening. They might ask their distributor for non-crippled CDs. That way at least my 'boycott' just might make some people aware of the quality of this idea.
I believe posters are recognized by their sig. So I made one.
A better solution would be to change the business model instead of trying to prevent people to copy CD's.
What are the reasons people currently make illegal copies of music:
1) CD's are too expensive.
2) The artist only sees a fraction of the price of a CD.
3) It is illegal, which makes it more attractive.
4) It is possible.
CD manufactures currently try to attack only the fourth reason instead of focusing on the other three (well, perhaps the third reason is hard to remove). Besides, when my ordinary CD player can read the disk, the CD player in my computer can do it as well, but maybe it requires a firmware upgrade.
A better solution would be to focus on the other reasons and change the business model used to sell CD's. For instance, I think it would be really great to surf the net, download music from the artist's website, pay a honest fee for it and burn it to CD myself. I believe there are many other people who download music in this fassion if a fair price was asked.
Of course, you still have the problem that music can be copied, but it is impossible to change that. The only thing that can be done is make it more difficult, but once someone circumvents the copy protection, it is totally worthless. Instead, music makers should focus on bringing the prices of music down and improve the experience people get while buying music.
Nope.. they are still making CDs.. just not standard Audio CDs. The headline should say "BMG Stops Producing Red Book Audio CDs".
slashdot!=valid HTML
It sure does if you try to fit it into a CD player.
slashdot!=valid HTML
"Sounds like they want stem piracy and to increase cash flow by resales because of "SCRATCHED" CDs."
That's ok with me, just so long as they remain consistant with their policies on CDs. According to the music industry, I don't own that CD, only a license to listen to the music it contains. Therefore, if my disc becomes unusable, I demand an immediate replacement so I may continue to exercise my rightfully purchased license. To demand further payments so I may exercise rights already granted to me sounds like extortion to me.
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
stupid BMG -- it's not like it effects me, i havnt paid for a CD in over 4 years -- but that's just lame.
hopefully it will inspire a B-O-Y-C-O-T-T
FUCK THE RIAA
... me to buy any more bmg cd's. I used to be a big cd buyer, but I don't want to buy a cd and be unable to play it on whatever I want. I prefere to go bootleg, at least for bmg discs (naturally I'll extend this to other companies if they follow the same path)
BMG has already done some experiments with crippled 'protected' CD's. This decision just means that sales of those discs did not that much decline, so BMG is going to risk the jump. And that means that we are wasting our time here on Slashdot. Not only geeks should care about this! Make this headline TV news! It sounds ridiculous, but from now on, even your grandmother should be aware not to buy those fake discs by BMG, Virgin, V2 and its evil sublabels! Our rights as customers are more than ever going to be violated. Discs we legally pay for (in Europe, a full price album is 22 euro) will not be valid in many CD drives. Boycot them!
Well there is an easy solution to the new format... don't buy their CDs and only download bootleg copies. I don't know about these companies that think they're protecting themselves, but end up just killing their sales. Seems a$$-backward to me, but then I guess I don't have an MBA.
Pete
Follow the white rabbit.
The problem is technically speaking they are Red Book compliant, because the subchannel data that they modify isn't in the red book. Techinially they should play on any vanilla cd player, the problem is with cd players playing mp3s and that kind of stuff they are no longer just cd players. They tend to mark tracks as data as opposed to audio, screw up the cd start time to an invalid number, and sometimes create multisessions that end past the point of the cd. The last methods is the one the marker takes care of. The subchannel timing isssues can be solved with better error handling in the firmware, these methods rely on the firmware's inability to handle the errors. The end result however is it just pisses people off because you can make a perfect digital to digital copy with a cd player and spdif out and in ports. Which then can be turned into mp3s or sold on the streets by other pirates. Not to mention eventually more and more cd-players will have more robust firmware and in the end it won't even be an issue. These companies pay millions of dollars to come up with ideas that aren't all that difficult to solve. Might be a good thing for phillips since they may corner the market for cd-burners that burn anything and play any crippled cd.
One scratch could already kill your disc. The red-book CD-DA standard DOES NOT provide ANY EDC or ECC data on the disc, merely RAW digitised audio.
Trust me.
On the other hand, the sampling rate of 44.1 Khz is twice the (healthy, über-standard) rate a human ear can discern (22,05 Khz) which means that in all those bits and bytes it doesn't really matter if one or two get flipped because your ear is not up to the task of hearing so. Hence the decision to not do EDC and ECC on CD-DA, which gives us 74/80 minutes of music on one disc.
Plus the physical construction of the disc with 65% of it's thickness on the transparent layer on the bottom before getting to the reflective layer that actually contains the info, your CD's can get quite nasty scratches before compromising the actual data layer. Many readers nowadays have phase-shifting lasers built into the head assembly in order to be able to deal with the different reflective properties of the various media types (Silver CD-DA disks, CD-R's and CD-RW's all have different light reflecting percentages and properties... ), which in turn makes them more flexible while reading discs with a slightly mangled transparent surface.
This means, in a nutshell, that the damage must be extensive before the unhearable bit gets flipped in the first place.
And heck, let's say I'm wrong, and sales do take a noticable dip. What are BMG going to blame it on? Their own greed and stupidity? Hahahaha! I'll give you short odds on "global economy" or (more likely) that this proves that people are thieves and criminals, and that we need Fritz chips right now to preserve Truth, Justice and the American Way. It's win-win for them, and all our outraged ranting won't make it otherwise.
... leading to ... show me this ogg-vorbis stuff you've been talking about!), "This is strange, I can't play the CD in the car but it works fine at home" (ah, you bought a crippled CD. Welcome to the future the Recording Cartels have planned for us ... you're only allowed to play that CD in specially authorized players), and so on.
You are right, our outraged ranting on slashdot won't make it otherwise.
However, our outraged ranting to our families, our friends, our coworkers, and our business associates (over beer, after work, etc.) will make all the difference in the world.
I have already shocked, appalled, and outraged numerous people simply by telling them what has been going on. It is particularly effective when it is done in response to "I think my PC is broken, it no longer plays my music" (oops, you saved your music in windoze media format and didn't unclick the DRM option. You won't be able to forget to do that in the next version of windows, because there won't be an option to unclick, everything will be 'protected.'
I have educated a pretty large number of non-savvy people about what is going on with the DMCA (Sklyrov, etc.), the RIAA (Janis Ian, Prince, etc. al documenting the recording industry's rape of artists AND consumers, etc.), and the MPAA (Fritz Disney Hollings et al), and they are pissed. Not at me, for ranting about technical issues they don't care about, but at these organizations and our hopelessly corrupt, wicked government. They are pissed because it has become painfully obvious that we do live under the tyranny of evil men, with apparently no way out, and they are sick of giving money to such.
So now they buy less CDs, attend less concerts, and go to less movies than before. Not a complete boycott like myself, but they are spending less and they are much, much more aware.
Which brings me to the the point of all this: there is one way in which WE, not THEY, can and should win:
Simply stop buying their crap.
Like music? Listen to independent artists ONLY. Do not buy any CDs from any record company, buy them direct from the artist or not at all. And if they are crippled, return them and publicly blacklist the artist for what they've done.
Like movies? Go see independent films only. If you cannot get over your pathetic addiction to the mindless bread and circuses of Hollywood, at least avoid seeing movies during the first two weeks of release (when most of the revninue goes to the studios), instead wait and see the movies in third or fourt weeks (when most of the revinue goes to the local thatre). Not as good as a proper boycott, but better than following the stampede.
In the end, though, is to simply be unforgiving of such people. Don't buy their stuff now, and don't ever buy it again. Get enough of your friends to feel likewise, and they will falter, even ultimately perish.
No one likes losing their freedom, and everyone sees it happening. Until now, they've only had the vague notion that 'the government' is taking away their freedoms and 'it doesn't seem to matter who we elect.'
Now there is a specific target for that ire, for that anger, a specific, relatively small group of companies that are actively, methodically, and deliberately stripping us of our freedoms, and use government collussion or, at best, apathy go do it.
And, unlike (most) governments, companies are something we as individuals can topple.
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
i've bought 3 or 4 copies of some of my cd's just becuase they fuck up, but i haven't had to do tha tin years thanks to p2p services.. i just re-download the song in flawless digital formats and make myself a new disk at a fraction of the cost (roughly 3 1/2 minutes and what a quarter for the cd?)
i hope phillips rapes them for all their worth for their trademark infringement and then they will learn that not only will they not increase their marginal revenue at all by spending more to sell disks that no one wants but they will lose business instead and maybe companies thsi fucked up will be taken out of the loop the natural way: Bankruptcy
n/t
i dont think this will stop ppl from ripping cds.. just plug stero into sound card and record.. better the equiptment the better the quality.. just taked a bit of time to do
---- "Logoff! That cookie shit makes me nervous!" - A. Soprano
You are ripping open the doors of Communism!
1. Piss off customers.
2.
3. Profit.
People swear they consider whether or not a cd is red book compliant before they purchase. Gimmie a break I bet you 1 in a million actually look for that silly logo. You think CEO's are sitting in the office fretting over whether or not the cd's they sell are red book compliant or whether or not they can include a logo on the product? They dont care, if it plays hey it plays.
Why don't they just punch themselves in the balls now and get the pain over with? Producing a music CD that won't play on most music CD playing equipment out in the wild is the stupidest thing I've ever heard of. Sell your stock in these companies, fols, 'cause they're doomed.
...that little old lady who lives in a shoe?
She knew what to do!
...that there is no longer such a thing as a "multimedia PC".
Sleep is for the Weak
Thats what I have just done at the Queens of the Stone Age message board The fans reading told me to buy a new CD player!
Economic Left/Right: -0.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -3.69
"The CD's copy protection" (meaning the copy protection of the CD) would still be incorrect, as you don't apostrophise the genetive case of objects (only people).
Thus "The CD's copy protection" would only be a contraction of "The CD is/was copy protection".
Oh, and I've been known to delete apostrophised plurals from colleagues' word processor dictionaries where they've added it to stop the machine reminding them that writing about "2 PC's" is wrong. Dammit.
The only thing you can accurately describe as "Scotch" is a sticky tape made by 3M. And it's
But this is all so silly. Look, most people know the following..(you didn't? ok, now you do.)
The audio degradation experienced by ripping a CD via analog means (by either plugging in a cable into the line-out of the CD player and recording with any PC recording application, or using the 'Rip to Analog" feature of Musicmatch) is far less than the degradation produced by MP3 compression.
Since six years of MP3 has shown us that for the vast majority of people, even 160kbps MP3 encoding is "good enough," how will this stop their music from being pirated?
Very few people actually rip and upload...Gartner and Forrester both agree that 95% of mp3 content on P2P and other filesharing systems comes from less than 10% of the community. All you need is one guy to rip the content to analog, then upload. BMG will see no net reduction of pirating of their content.
Irnonically, the only ones to suffer from this inane decision are those who legitimately purchased the "CD." They will be plagued with a hobbled, limited-use product, which may actually convince them that P2P is actually a more convenient choice. No one else will even notice, as they will continue to download the content.
"The pie shall be cut in half and each man shall receive.....death. I'll eat the pie."
Can some of you in the EU make sure this gets brought to the attention of your politicians? I will certainly do the same in the US when the problem arises here, but our politicians don't listen to us anyway... :(
I just sent bertlesman a pretty nasty e-mail though!
Read jack phelps dot net
...of course, they are entitled to charge a "replacement cost"....you pay for 2-way shipping + handling...which will undoubtedly come to about $15.
Bastards.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Do you realize your sig implies an infinite population? hmmmm
I think we all know what the next step is - basically, some variant of DVD audio. Hello region codes, compression, and tight control over hardware manufacturers. When that happens, we're really screwed.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
I've seen some Video CD's and DVD's in the back room at the video store... I guess if I bought them they could be considered "Perviously owned." Not sure how this would apply to audio discs though.
(yes, this is supposed to be humourous).
If some recording studios are unwilling to put a consumer warning/indicator on their media when they cripple their CDs and congress does not intervene, I would assume the following might make sense:
a marketing incentive to advertise "not crippled". If there is enough of a PR fall-out then consumers would naturally move to something more defined...
(Anonymous Coward doesn't fit. more like lazy bastard)...
It is a widely recommended practice for parents with a small child to burn and use copies of their CDs, and keep the 'master' (the original CD) in a safe place.
Hey, I just burned a CD of "Dark Side Of The Moon" from an almost 30 year old SQ Quadraphonic vinyl album last week. It still sounds good. Of course I copied the album to cassette soon after I bought it so the album has hardly been played since about 1974 or so.
I never thought I'd say that! /me checks the weather reports for hell...
I hope Phillips sues their asses off.
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
To make matters worse, if what you say is true (and I have no reason to doubt it), I won't even be able to play the songs on my music system as the CD player clearly isn't 'standard' (though I fail to see what's more 'standard' than a mid-range Sony deck).
This leaves me with two options:
- Buy a new (crappier) CD player that only has analogue out. Copy my lovely digital CDs via analogue to my portable MD/computer thus loosing all the crispness of the original music.
- Skip buying the CD and just download the tracks via KazaaLite/Gnucleus. I get the same quality as 1) but save 12 quid each time!
What a brilliant business move! They'll be depriving me of high quality music, and themselves of any revenue! I wish I had an MBA and could think of such award winning ways of increasing shareholder value!Unless they work it that you pay £3.99 (or however much) for the media and with it you get a free licence (therefore you haven't paid for the licence but are constrained by it, but can't get a free media replacement). If the CD is broken, they aren't stopping you for making use of the licence: a bit like having a car tax disc doesn't mean the -insert your localities car licencing division name here- doesn't mean that they have to _give_ you a car just because you have "licence" to use it.
Every CD I've looked at so far on cdbaby costs $15 bucks.
Why?
Indys shouldn't have all the bloated overhead of the "big guys" and their product should be much cheaper.
Today any moron can put together a basic studio for under $5k. This alone should reduce the cost of CDs significantly.
Money is why I've stopped buying music. Not because of stupid copy protection, but the simple fact that the industry does not get it -- their product isn't a good value (i.e. it costs far more more than it is worth to me).
"He was a wise man who invented beer." -- Plato
instead there's a label claiming that the CD is fully Red Book-compliant.
Good. So we just need to look for a label on a CD assuring us that the CD is "fully Red-Book compliant" and we will know that it is crippled. Perhaps all manufacturers should standardize this label and use a common graphic, such as a picture of a CD player catching on fire.
I have a sony in car cd player, the one that can play mp3s but not copy protected cds. I was a little annoyed until I found that my old pioneer 6 disc scsi cdrom drive drm624x that I used to run on my amiga (its 4.4x not 24x speed btw) could rip copy protected cds flawlessly when used with cdparanoia (linux cd ripper utill made by the same people as ogg vorbis). Ebay has these units for $15 each. They can be got elsewhere I suspect that Google may be able to help there.
Well, yes, except the CDDA content is not corrupt. The player just stumbles on the corrupt CD-ROM session and never even attempts to read the audio session.
what can philips do? can they force them to not use the cd logo?
philips should give them the shaft.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
Won't work in the UK.
Sale of goods act states goods "must be fit for the purpose sold". If it has the cd logo on, it must play in my CD logo Cd drive.
If it doesn't, back it goes for a refund.
it hasn happened yet- but what i think the original post meant was that microsoft cannot win the war against linux- it _will_ prevail, in part because microsoft is painting itself into a corner with its horrific licensing schemes, and in part because the public at large is becoming more and more aware of linux in all its forms, and that its free (they dont know exactly that its not necessarily free to buy- but 'hey, the word free was in that news article on that news show' is what Mr Sixpack will say). the more press it receives now, the mor ethe sheep will think that they need it.
My other OS is also FreeBSD
Damn those seeds!!!
Wonder how many heads that flew over.
...I stopped buying CDs!
So now, we the consumer will just have to stop buying cd's manfuactured by the BMG family of companys. I have not bought a cd since high school, (hehe 10 years ago, i am OLD) and probally never will again. Until they the record co's change their business practices... But I have every release at least two weeks before releases. 80gb of mp3's/ogg is a lot.
greedy rat bastards....
Let me get out my calculator for this one... Aw, F. it, lets just do the global picture: If sales of units fall more than the value of those sales, units must have gotten more expensive.
So... Might it just be that the already inflated prices (22 euros/mainstream CD) being pushed higher combined with economic down-turn have anything to do with this?
These greedy bastards should be thoroughly thankfull people apparantly like music so much that they haven't stopped buying CD's at all in favour of buying food, paying their phonebills or anything else that for most people rates higher on their list than CD's.
Sheesh.
Karma? What's that again?
How the hell is this going to work? If I'm pissed now, I'll be even more pissed when they pass laws. How is this going to cause me to GIVE THEM MY MONEY?! What exactly do they expect, something like this?
Me: "I'm pissed. I can't play CDs in my computer anymore!"
BMG: "FOAD, you worthless consumer. I've bought out politicians who will make your entire computer ILLEGAL!"
Me: "Gee, I really really want a CD now!"
warner does the same but atleast they have removed the CD logo.
though they don't listen to the artist when the artist them self wont have the protection,
the lastest cd from project pictfork had protection, and here s what pp says about it:
Statement by Project Pitchfork:We regret to say that we have established that since September 30, 2002 there is obviously some problems with the copy protection on our new album inferno. Originally we decided against having copy protection on the CD, however since the release, it has come to our knowledge that the CD does indeed have copy protection on it. The upper management of Warner made this decision of copy protection: it is their feeling that all CDs should have copy protection
the whole statement here
i didn't buy the cd, for 1, i don't want a crippled cd, and 2, this wasn't the best realese from pp.
One way to look at this situation is that BMG has simply switched to using a new format for releasing its music. This format is worse than CDs in every way: it probably sounds worse, it is probably less scratch-resistant, and it is only partly compatible with existing CD players. However, if BMG lowers the price to make up for the reduced value, I'll bet consumers would be willing to buy them.
My own situation: I own about 1500 CDs, I have never downloaded from the Net (too much trouble and my tastes are not at all mainstream), and I pretty much stopped buying CDs 3 years ago. Why? CDs are not worth what they cost. The price of CDs has been about the same for the last 10 years. Instead of CDs, I am now buying DVDs. Since 95% of the 400 or so DVDs I have bought cost less than $20 (mostly used); a SALE price of $15 for a CD does not seem like a very good value. Rather than spending my free time listening to new CDs, I am watching movies instead.
Now I hate copy protected media. Before DVDs, I was buying Laser Disks, which are not copy-protected. But, Laser Disks cost about $40-80, so I was willing to buy DVDs, even though they are copy-protected, because they cost half as much. I'll bet the same thing would apply if these new BMG disks cost half as much as CDs (and they release music I like); not that they'll do that.
-- Pot is safer than Beer
Not buying their product is a boycott.
In a recent public letter, the Rolling Stone disses the record company executives totally over this kind of crap.
Excerpts from the letter:
"Because of you, my kids will stop wasting time listening to new music and seeking out new bands."
"No more harmful exposure of thousands of bands through Internet radio, either."
"Don't worry, computers are just a fad anyway, and the Internet is just plain stupid."
Trust me.
Err, have you actually read the Red Book? If you had you might have noticed that the data is broken into frames. Each data frame (there are also control frames, which is what the copy protection screws around with) contains the audio data for the two stereo channels. This is encoded in an eight-to-fourteen pattern on the disc and the data frames themselves are in Cross-Interleaved Reed Solomon (CIRC) codes as well to allow some error recovery from, say, scratches. It is pretty simple-minded but easy to build decoders for, an important requirement because of the cost of 1980's electronics when the spec was laid out.
"Okay, CD sales are down. Suggestions?"
"I know!! Let's lock up our CDs so that the customers buying them can't do what they want with them. That'll recoup our losses!"
It should get quite interesting when their main consumer base, mostly dumb idiots, nt be able listen to their newly baught metallica album on their portable cd player or in their sterio...they will return that thing so quick claiming it doesn't work. And when they can't return it, they simply won't buy the music. I doubt it will work. And do note, the DMCA hasn't stood up in court yet...
Candy-Coated Knowledge
It's been a while since I listened to a CD in a dedicated CD player. I still buy CDs, lots of them, but tend to play them on CD-ROM drives or rip them to MP3 and play them from disk or from a prtable MP3 player. I don't trade MP3s and don't intend to, but it makes no sense to me to shell out for a CD walkman or a home audio system when I already have a CD-ROM in front of me.
I have already come across music I wanted to buy but was unable to because it was copy-protected. As far as I am concerned, this copy-protected CD is as much use to me as a casette tape or vinyl record would be - none. I think an effort must be made to raise awareness that copy-protected CDs are a new media format which offers no advantage to the consumer and may require new players.
I have no intention of purchasing any product which I cannot use in my current equipment unless there is some advantage to me. That doesn't seem too complicated to understand, even for record companies.
I'm find I'm pretty typical when it comes to music. When napster was in it's heyday I traded music like mad. And frankly, my CD buying doubled at a minimum. I kept experimenting, finding new bands, and buying their CDs. Then the RIAA sued Napster out of existance, is suing AudioGalaxy, and doing everything they can to make Gnutella unworkable. I've largely stopped trading MP3s, and recently I thought about it and realized that I had not bought a single CD since I stopped trading MP3s. Seriously. Not for a reason, not to make a point, but I just don't hear music I want to buy on the radio much and without being exposed to it through music trading I just don't buy it any more.
Then I started reading more, I read about the RIAA trying to pass a bill that will let them hack into computers and do things to file traders, I read about them trying to make it so that computers will be unable to play music CDs at all, and I get annoyed. I have about a thousand CDs, I finally burned them all to MP3 and use my computer as a jukebox. It works incredibly well - but the RIAA is trying to prevent me from doing that, even though I bought the CD and legally own it. Now I heard some clips from a new Tom Petty CD and would like to get it...but if I do, most of that money goes to the RIAA, who will use my "donation" to pursue these aims I detest. And I can't bring myself to buy it. I've gone from just not finding music I like to just being unable to bring myself to give these guys my money when I do.
Evan Reynolds evanthx@hotmail.com
Two peanuts crossed the street. One was assaulted.
Since the entire music industry colluded in the late 80's to put cd's at ASTRONOMICAL prices. In any other industry this type of price fixing would have been dealt with harshly.
We all know that it costs about $1 at the MOST to make cd's including marketing and distribution costs. How the industry is/was able to get $16 a pop is beyond me. If they would just treat the consumers right, sell cd's for a moderate...say $5, they'd still make tons of money. Also, I know I'd be less enticed to download music from the net if I actually could afford to buy cd's.
Now they are selling cd's that I can't even make a backup copy of, or listen to in my Computer. Boy that is really enticing! Next thing you know they'll have us sign EULA's and the cd's will actually plant a trojan into our computer that will get the fuking DMCA on our backs.
What a way to build consumer loyalty. Price fix, and then cripple your product. This will push p2p to even greater heights. Thanx Bertelsenn!
It's probably not a DMCA violation, because they're only using technical means to violate the trademark, not the copyright, unless of course the CD logo is copyrighted as well as trademarked....
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
It's things like this that will result in the collapse of capitalism. The injustices done to humanity by capitalist empires will ultimately come back to haunt them. People will throw their music onto the Web, keep their band names, and make their money at concerts. Linux will ultimately win the OS war. Then, 10-20 years down the road from here, the advent of nanotechnology in the home will deliver the fatal blow to capitalism and all the evil it represents, simply by allowing everyone to literally design and manufacture their own objects, from Kentucky Fried Chicken to home theatre systems. How? Economic socialism, the model of the Napster revolution and the open source ideal, is immortal, because it parasitizes an immortal entity, specifically, society. See ya in Hell, you capitalist pigs, be sure to write!
What will be interesting is whether or not BMG's demise will shatter pop culture. I personally think it would be a good thing but I don't feel very strongly about it.
Of course in the real future, we'll just use food replicators. "Computer, I'll have a cup of Earl Grey with lemon."
Sheesh... get it right... it's, "Tea, Earl Grey, Hot."
Fascism starts when the efficiency of the government becomes more important than the rights of the people.
This is why I'm buying my music on Vinyl... try it analog.
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
1. Alienate your customer base by suing them and their ISPs into the ground
2. Add copy protection to your CDs to prevent anyone from copying, hearing, or ogling your valuable intellectual property
3. Watch as sales plummet; blame on piracy
4. ???
5. PROFIT!
A choice of masters is not freedom
Let's see... lots of people have been laid off. Those who have found new jobs probably took substantial cuts in pay in the process. Some of these people still have not found new jobs.
Many of those who did not loose their jobs are saving money in case they DO lose their jobs.
Do people buy food and pay the rent or blow my cash on CDs? Hmnnn......
"You spoony bard!" -Tellah
Hey, they're only abusing the data formats, not the chemistry. They'll burn just fine, and they'll take about the same time in the microwave oven to get all sparky.
...hundreds of lower middle class whities with no discernable taste all across the u.s.commit suicide after finding out that their Whitney Houston, Ace of Base, Air Supply, Yaani, Ponter Sisters and Robyn re-issues won't play on their Emerson ghetto. President George W. Bush , commenting on the tragedy, calls it a "terrorist ploy to destroy the confidence of the Republican voter" while pretty much everyone else with an ounce of discrimination labeled it a "victory"
I can not stress this enough, but if we do not buy them, they will eventually break down and concede or go out of business. The later being the preferred...
Who are you? The new #2 Who is #1? You are #617565. I am not a number, I am a free man! Muhahaha.
There is a pastel shade of blue that photocopiers do not reproduce.
Boobies never hurt anyone. - Sherry Glaser.
It's James Bond music. I'd rather the CD be unplayable, since the music's bound to be unlistenable.
BMG? I don't want to buy from them or from the companies that they own. This f*ck the consumer crap is ridiculous.
"sweet dreams are made of this..."
Now, I'm to the point where going out and buying a CD is a waste of time and money. As a hobbled wage-slave, I don't give a rat's ass about the fsckin' problems the music industry says they have. The bastards have been making obscene amounts of money for decades, and if the nipple isn't quite as sweet as it once was for them, then maybe they need to try the bottle.
Personally, I'm tired of all the we are in control, do not attempt to back up your media or play it on anything we have not blessed strategies and crappy laws. They don't matter when in the privacy of my home I can break copy protections at whim and blow the crap on drives or play it on hacked players. The industry needs to quit wasting their time thinking they can stop a technically superior consumer-base, just because you didn't hire us doesn't mean we're incapable of completely owning your corporate asses. We will own any format, any player, anything that doesn't blow us into tiny bits when tampered with will be defeated at whim, and the only thing they're doing is hobbling themselves, and then complaining that they have to spend too much to control us. Ahahahah...P.T. Barnum is still the man.
If there's anyone from BMG or any of the other wannabe in control media companies out there reading, I have just one final thing to say: I want to buy your product, but if and only if I can put it in player X and it will play, and then I can put it in player Xn and it will play, and if player X supports Video and Audio, then I want both, and I don't want Ads, I don't want the number of the beast tatooed on my ass, and I don't want to use only non-free OS's in order to enjoy the media I've legally purchased from some peddler. I want DVD capacities and I want some real freakin value for my buck...add hard-copy materials and packaging that make buying your product worth the time and effort. Oh yeah, and I'm not the only one--we are legion.
Every new form of media has it's own Requirimento
Actually on the same day another announcement came in. Rhapsody to allow users burn BMG tracks to CD . For 99 cents a pop on top of what Rhapsody charges for monthly access it might a little bit too expensive, on the other hand, you don't have to burn the songs from the album that you don't like, and I am assuming they're using MP3 format, and that tracks do not contain any DRM 'features'.
If you open the wrapper, they no longer allow you to return it for any reason whatsoever - they automagically assume that you copied it and brought the orginal back. Yes, you could take your player to the store and PROVE that it does not work; but that may not be feasible with some stereo setups. I often wonder how many people that DON'T copy or don't even have computers to rip music or store it on a fileserver arrangement for playback in the home or on portable MP3 devices get discouraged hearing about the recording industry's newest anti fair use tactics and stop buying music in the stores too. [I guess I can't blame satellite radio though since they seem to be struggling themselves]. Could we just be disgusted or discouraged; regardless of the technology (or lack thereof) in our homes? I know places in rural Virginia that don't even have CD players in their homes. If they can't find it on cassette, they don't buy; and don't bother ordering it either.
I think with the interesting people, their lives can't possibly be wrapped up into a nice little package.
Just wait until they announce that you MUST use a TCPA-computer to even decode their CD:s.
What if.. 1) My neighbour is singing a Michael Jackson song in his shower, I record him doing so. (The audio people, the audio!)
.. "shower" recording?
2) He sounds so much like Michael Jackson I decide to make an mp3 of it and share it with people on my Kazaa or w/e
3) Well hell, he sounds exactly like Michael Jackson, so now everyone thinks its actually him singing the song. Everyone is d/l it!
Now, no one has profitted from this at all. So if I were to record it off the radio and share it on the net, the radio is profitting and so is the artist? So if it's considered theft to distribute free copies of a radio recording, what about if I distribute free copies of a
You laugh now. Wait till E-Books take hold.
It'll be DejaVu all over again.
What burns my britches is that this decision is in direct contradiction with well-established consumer rights in some countries.
For instance, in Cananda, I have the right to make verbatim copies of any media I want, as long as I am the owner of the original and do not allow more than one copy to be used at the same time. I'm pretty sure that I could legally burn 10,000 copies of any BMG title and use them to shingle my roof if I so desired (I wouldn't, but I could).
I'm also pretty sure that BMG is not allowed to restrict these rights.
The problem is that even though we have these pretty strong consumer rights in Canada, interest in protecting these rights by the government has eroded to the point where it is just a funny funny joke.
Another problem I have is that I do not buy CDs at the "big" stores. I purchase from a local music dealer who I have a good relationship with. If it was HMV I'd just return the CD and say "it don't work". I don't give a shit if BMG isn't going to reimburse HMV, because I'll stand there and power pout until I get my fscking way. I won't feel so good about doing that to a smaller retailer.
This actually happened recently when I picked up the latest "Queens of the Stone Age" and the CD wouldn't mount in my iBook. I wasn't even ripping or burning it. I was fscking trying to listen to the CD at the coffee shop. No, we can't have that, so it locks up the iBook CDRom player so hard I have to reboot to read any CD. I want to return it, but I'd feel bad going back to this great music store I found.
If I was feeling paranoid, I'd suggest that this tactic also has the effect of hurting smaller retailers more, leaving BMG, HMV &etc. with an even bigger share of the CD retailer market.
Reading this article has reminded me how much people suck. Grumble. Bitch. Complain.
-- clvrmnky
They don't speak proper English in Chicago. It's some sort of nasal whine. Generally speaking, American isn't English anyway. It's, well, American.
Return the CD because it's defective and won't play in your CD player.
Honestly, I'm thinking this is the correct approach to the problem, not to copy the CDs, mind you, becausen that's wrong and stuff (legal disclaimer); but I can't help but think if we buy the CDs and return them because they are broken, then the record companies will lose money. Maybe if they get enough "playable" CDs returned because they are in fact not playable on the devices that their consumers wish to use they'll get the message.
Has anyone else out there tried this?
1) Buy Napster.
2) Shut Napster down.
3) Over a year later, say that you're gonna bring back Napster on a pay-basis.
4) Start selling crippled CD's to increase the demand for MP3's.
5) Bring back Napster on a pay-basis, just after increasing the demand for MP3's.
~Brian
IF BMG is making 100% Red Book compliant discs. then should a 100% Red Book compliant player, play the disc?
So it's either, the BMG discs are not 100 Red Book or the players are not 100% Red Book.
I read an article in a certain magazine a few months back about how the f/(os)s CdParanoia can be used to thwart this new copy prevention scheme. Since cdparanoia was designed to deal with damaged / scratched cds, it can also be used to tell your computer where to point to read the real audio data. No need to lose quality via that 1/8 inch cable.
Yes, that's because the highest-frequency sound you can record at 44.1K samples/sec (in theory) is around 22KHz. There's a good reason that the 44.1KHz sample rate for cds is "twice the (healthy, über-standard) rate."
Not lately, todays New York Fed exchange rate is:
0.9974 Euro to the Dollar.
Who's gonna quibble over ¼ of a cent?
CDDA is a trademarked logo (owned by Philips?). If you have a non-defective CD with CDDA logo and a player with CDDA logo but not compatible with each other, then sue Philips. Trademark laws in USA says that either you protect your trademark or lose it. Either Philips have to publicly announce that CDDA logo doesn't guarantee compatibility or they would lose the trademark (for allowing improper usage).
Make sure to shop with a credit card. Take the CD back, if they won't accept it, drop it on the counter and walk out. Call your bank and find out what you need to do to contest the charge (usually write a letter explaining why). The issuing bank will block payment of the charge and you won't have to pay for it. Technically they can take you to court but:
1) They aren't going to over $18 and more importantly
2) You gave the product back so they don't have a case.
Credit cards provide a great deal of protection, and the ability to block charges is one of them.
Well part of it was repeat sales but also because Darkside of the Moon rocked. It's rare to find music that good by modern bands.
... so we can legitimately copy audio cd's?
looks like they're either going to have to remove the protection on cd's shipped to canada or give up the levy.
I refuse to purchase a product that assumes I'm guilty aswould be the case of a crippled CD. There more than wlcome to cripple CD's but any hardcore pirate or technical geek will only bust it in a matter of hours so its pointless - just look at DVD's. SO there welcome to do what they like - I know I will.
I am trying to compile a persuasive argument that I can take to copyright holders to show them why there needs to be a license that allows for the broadcast of material over the Internet.
I have posted my un-proofread introduction as a response to this message.
I am only presenting this argument to copyright holders who are friendly to the idea of Internet radio. I will not be waisting my time with a copyright holder that feels that CARP is a good thing.
At this time I am mainly targeting micro-labels that hold the rights to 10 - 40 titles. I am targeting these labels because, they want greater exposure and they know Internet radio can give it to them.
These arguments are designed to show the copyright holder that it is in there best interest to help in the creation of a license that will allow for the distribution of there material in return for broadcasters providing listeners with information on how the music can be purchased. There is no license at this time, I need to convince them that one should be formed, and that they are the ones that should help form it.
This license will be written in such a way that any artist can apply it to there work.
The reason I need your help as a proof reader is that, I have a life-long affliction that makes it difficult for me to catch errors in my own writing. During my time in High school, I consistently scored high in reading comprehension, this placed me at a college comprehension level during my sophomore year at High school. At the same time my score for English composition was at the bottom of the class. This affliction has made it difficult for me to distinguish words such collage from college in my own composition. This can lead to embarrassing mistakes that cause people to assume I am a dumb ass. Well, I was able to earn a bachelors degree in physics to spite my affliction. So that should prove that I'm not a dumb ass I just have a hard time writing. I have been using spell checkers sense 1984 and they have helped, but they do not catch every type of error.
If you are interested in helping the cause please see my web page
http://www.io.com/~sfeil/proofread/
Will we see cheaper CD's now they have quashed all the illegle copies in one bow - like hell we will. Will they see more CD sales - like hell they will.
[BMG owns] RCA Records
Strange. BMG, a major record label, owns RCA Records. Thomson Multimedia owns the rest of the RCA brand, and Thomson is also the exclusive USA sublicensor of the MP3 patents. Does that point toward a new method of fighting "Music Piracy 3" (the first two were player-pianos and tape decks)?
Will I retire or break 10K?
The Association of Micro Labels Internet Broadcast License will be a license that grants Internet broadcasters a royalty free permission to broadcast music over the Internet, provided that certain conditions are met. The license abbreviated AMLIBL and pronounced a-meal-able, will be a legal agreement for the exchange of services between two groups who really need each other in this age of homogenized mega-music.
,"if compliance is so easy then why would anyone want to fight it?". Even though AMLIBL will be reviewed by lawyers its function is to serve as a code of ethics and not a legal battering ram.
.
The Micro-labels need exposure that they can not get on corporate radio stations. Internet broadcasters, on the other hand, need to have music available that they can play without threat of legal action from the RIAA. This is why a marriage between these two groups is a necessity. The AMLIBL license is a way for the micro-labels spell out what they expect from Internet broadcasters.
The the terms of AMLIBL will be written such a way that compliance will be easy for the broadcasters. The terms will mostly concern giving the listener a way to find the music for purchase. The basic idea is
The AMLIBL license will be written in such a way that anyone who owns the copyright to an audio work can grant Internet broadcasters the right to broadcast that work under the terms of AMLIBL. The Copyright holder would then provide a URL for the listeners to be directed to.
For more information on the proposed AMLIBL license please see the website http://www.io.com/~sfeil/proofread/
If you stop paying for their products, the RIAA and MPAA won't have money to pay congressmen/women for laws like the DMCA.
I buy from members of the Big Nine media companies. But whenever I give $15 to (say) Interscope Records for the new Eminem album, I give an equal donation to the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Consider analogies to Newton's Third Law of Motion: "Every action has an equal and opposite reaction."
Will I retire or break 10K?
Yes, a few people are making legit' copies but the majority making copies are making illegal copies and swapping them. Because of that we now have to deal with sucky copy protection schemes. Same illegal copying brought about the extra cost for blank media. So scream and pout all you want about the companies, but it's your theft that casued them to do it and we ALL are having to pay.
> ... because only all European CDs will be crippled.
oh! _only_ all european CDs will be crippled. well, if only that minor continent is affected... who cares?
but what do i know, i'm just a model.
The key term here is "consumer" versus "customer". A consumer will consume something, largely no matter what. A customer is someone who must be convinced to buy their products.
They're assuming we're consumers instead of customers- and it shows.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
...
:/
First we have the title
BMG Stops Producing CDs
They didn't ACTUALLY stop producing CDs.
An Anonymous Cow writes "The register has a new story about claims by Bertelsmann that they'll stop manufacturing uncrippled audio CDs.
This doesn't really tell the whole story either as well see further down.
It looks like this is a test case, because only all European CDs will be crippled."
And after a LOT of crap you see that its only in Europe. So we went from BMG stopping all production of CDs to them stopping production of all uncrippled CDs to them only doing it in Europe.
No wonder I only come here once a week now
======== In the future, everything will be artificial. ========
CD DA does NOT ... have any EDC and ECC mechanisms...
I'm afraid you're quite mistaken.
Red Book audio CDs (CD-DA) use data redunancy, error correction codes, and special damage-resistant encodings extensively. Something like a third of the data on the disc is just redundant codes to allow for perfect error correction in most cases.
It's a common misconception in the computer biz. Comparing high-level specs for CD-DA and CD-ROM does indeed fail to show any data redundancy for CD-DA and does show some for CD-ROM. However, the data redundancy in the high-level CD-ROM specs is additional redunancy, over and above what the Red Book standard mandates. The special Red Book encodings are all handled at a very low level by a CD-ROM drive's firmware, so they just don't get mentioned in OS-level API type docs, and thus a myth is born.
Here's a good overview.
I stop buying from BMG.
It only went over the NON-Heads.
>> Practice Safe Hex
Action like this will only speed up the demise of the CD, and encourage more users to investigate p2p networks. GREEDY RECORD COMPANIES HAVE ONLY THEMSELVES TO BLAME.
You would think that as many times as the /. editors have fucked this up they'd figure out how to get it right eventually.
It's not news for nerds; it's reactionary knee-jerking for nerds.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
In this case, since BMG won't identify which product is crippled, I'll have to use the BMG logo as my guide. I'd like to let BMG know that's why I won't be buying any more BMG product.
So what's the best way to let BMG know? A letter? What address would be best to send it to? Phone call follow-up perhaps? What phone number?
Thanks!
Use the email form from the posted URL (for instance http://www.bmg-copycontrol.info/uk-ireland/index.h tml) to let BMG know what you think about it.
This is a simple economic game (remember game theory?). If the big-5 record companies will produce a product that I like and is reasonably priced --- I'll buy it.
If not, I'll use P2P and circumvent any and all "buying" - rightly or wrongly. I don't share the moral dilemma that the record companies seem to want me to share. I see their products more as "services" in that they fulfill a desire for music. However, they fail to see that there are many many alternatives to fill that desire -- some legal, some not. And remember, legality is only as good as the enforcement of the law (marijuana, anyone?) and I have GREAT confidence that the "pirates" will ALWAYS be one step ahead in that arena.
On the other hand, the sampling rate of 44.1 Khz is twice the (healthy, über-standard) rate a human ear can discern (22,05 Khz) which means that in all those bits and bytes it doesn't really matter if one or two get flipped because your ear is not up to the task of hearing so
The sample rate must be twice the highest frequency in the analog signal. That is how digital audio works. Its not that they're wasting half the bandwidth.
where there's fish, there's cats
An anonymous cow?
Do they really believe that putting copy protection on cds will stop people ripping them. I give it a few months and then there will be some program that can crack it. Did splitting DVDs into regions and the copy protectino on them stop anybody. Just slowed us down a bit. Bring on DivX for cds.
-- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
It would be unfortunate if the creation of new music was stifled by crippled CD distribution, but the new music scene has held little appeal for me for decades. Maybe we should all take a century or two off to enjoy the music that has already been recorded, and let it all fall in to the public domain. Then we can think about creating/buying more.
There are two kinds of societies: sustainable and doomed.
You have a selective memory or defective reading skills. Children are mentioned as a reason for CD-R copies on almost every Slashdot story about fair-use and the MIAA.
Yay for the Floyd!
Off Topic Remark: I sincerely thought that the Smashing Pumpkins would go on to become the next Pink Floyd or U2, when their music matured a little bit more... but then they go and split up. Sigh.
Back on topic: any idea if these new Play-ably Challenged CDs will be used in Latin American markets soon? The music piracy here is a little bit worse than in the States, so I'd say they would love to give it a test try here, too.
Tongue-tied and twisted, just an earth-bound misfit, I
Learning to fly, Pink Floyd.
So whats to stop someone with a home cd player with an optical output routing it to their computer with an optical input and grabbing the wav files and then burning their own copy and ripping to mp3?
Tell me when they start doing this in the US and I might care a little more. All of you overseas just import the US versions, I'm sure you can find them cheap on amazon.
Just asking.
sulli
RTFJ.
It's been said before, but:
1) BMG stops releasing "real" CDs in Europe.
2) Everyone and their brother discovers this cd won't play in their car, and can't be put into their collection by Microsoft Media Player. (Disclaimer: I run several OSes, but I know plenty of non-technical people who have digital music collections due to Media Player).
3) One persons somewhere in the world breaks the copy prevention, gets a pre-release copy (see: The Eminem Show), or RIPS IT OFF A US CD. Or even if all of these fail, one person makes a good D->A->D copy.
4) Everyone and their brother discovers that if they download music off the net, they can play it anywhere they want and make their own CDs.
5) CD sales plummet, copyright infringement skyrockets.
6) BMG says, "See? Piracy is up, sales are down, and here's a million dollars. SSSCA2 is a great idea!" Everyone forgets that this is only true in Europe, where the protected CDs are.
7) All hell breaks loose.
-Puk
How did I refrain from referring to a Republican congress in this post? Oops, I guess I didn't.
What would happen if there was a class action suit aginst one of their popular aritist directly. I'm thinking of some group that none of us would ever buy from (Boybands, sexy chick of the week, other artifical band). This would get major press infront of thouse people that the record compaines like and all of a sudden the "artist" would start to understand that the big lables aren't good for them either. As long as its just the consumers aginst the record compaines, there is no way to win. If its the artists and consumers, then maybe something will break. With a bit more press, maybe people would start to understand that their local radiostations aren't so local. But maybe its just too hard to convince the sheep there are wolves in their midst.
and learn the piano (guitar, xylophone, kazoo, cello, tooba, etc.) in 12 easy steps so that i don't have to pay these fools for their music? now i wish i payed attention to those lessons as a kid. all i got now is a casio that i can't play (like everyone else). well i guess i better start crackin'. every good boy deserves favor!
Large print giveth, and the small print taketh away
One reason I never bought a slotloading CD player for my car was because all the mangled discs my friends had from their moblie playing. I've got too many irreplacable discs...
This sig intentionally left justified.
Your sig quotes Mel Gibson!
THAT'S funny...
Philips wants five thousand dollars for the Red Book, and requires that you sign an NDA. But if you want to learn the details you can buy the actual international standard, IEC standard 60908, for CHF 226 (about $156).
Other good sources of technical detail about the CD Audio format are:
- The Art of Digital Audio by John Watkinson
- Principles of Digital Audio by Ken Pohlmann
Both of these books provide fairly detailed explanations of the data format, but for the actual physical specifications you have to refer to the standard.maybe they're trying to bolster their sagging vinyl sales?!
And we all know it.
Let's pretend for a moment, nevermind how, that nobody can extract digital information from a CD anymore.
As everyone says, we will just make high quality analog recordings, and then turn those into the compressed music format-du-jour.
And people won't care. Digital copies will still be an issue, because once that digital master is made form the analog output, we can make perfect copies of that the world over.
It's all time and effort wasted.
All of the BMG cds I've bought. And now I never will again. It's a wierd feeling of nostalgia.
The problem with sending money to artists that already have a contract with a big publisher is that you will probably be making them liable for breach of contract and possibly conspiracy if they accept the money knowing that you ripped the music from their assigned publisher.
It's hard enough to make a publisher pry open their wallet and send a few bucks to the artists. This would give them an excuse to publish without paying artists, at least while contracts are being contested.
Life just plain sucks sometimes, and art imitates life.
</slashdot_posting>
a) buy a new stereo(s)
b) don't buy their cds
I choose b.
Are you tired of old fashioned, un-copy-protected audio CDs which play in all your home-entertainement devices?
Well have BMG got a deal for you!
Now you don't have to put up with a single-use audio CD -- now there's the BMG Audio Coaster!
The BMGAC is a multi-purpose disk that you can use as a handy device for protecting your benchtop surfaces against those nasty, sticky rings left by coffee cups.
But wait, there's more!
You can also use the BMGAC to test all your CD players for faults! Just pop the disk into your player and within seconds you'll find out whether it's functioning correctly, or whether it has some severe design fault.
But wait, there's more!
Come the 4th of July, you can pop your BMGAC into the microwave and enjoy your own private fireworks display. Invite your neighbors over and celebrate with a BMGAC.
But wait, there's even more!
Young and old alike can get hours of pleasure and enjoyment from a BMGAC. Throw them like a frisbee and watch them soar.
Yes, throw away those tired old "regular CDs" and replace them with the new BMGAC today!
Disclaimer: Some customers may find that on placing a BMGAC into a compatible CD player, music may be heard. We apologize for this -- unfortunately our copy protection is not yet perfect and may not affect all playback equipment at this time.
If this problem affects a BMGAC by Britney Spears then we apologize double -- and warn that the noise that may issue forth could cause permanent damage your taste in music.
This is an article I have put on my site as well.
:)
Because I am a DJ I am very dissapointed in the decision of BMG. This way it is very bad to use cd's in their full extend. A have seen a lot of mutual problems in the reactions onhere. Here is my full article and my worries as DJ.
Bertelsmann (BMG Music) will stop to sell uncrippled CD's. This means such cd's will not play at certain older & newer CD players, certain car players and will not play in your computer. This for the price of 20US$ to 22US$ per CD !
As DJ I am very worried because one scratch crashes my CD into oblivion. The copyprotection does not let me play half of my cd's on my old cd players in my house (and I have three of those).
The protection on these cd's is the Cactus Data Shield from Midbar. The protection is currently only being used on EUROPEAN cd's. A lot of the cd's being used in Europe are not available in the US what leaves only one option, buying them here and praying they do not get damaged + work in the CD players you use at that time.
The error is in your player, not in our copyprotected cd's.
---
BMG distributes a lot of the cd's that are currently being used by me as DJ and shows no respect for their customers whatsoever by creating CD's that work on only 80% of the home/pro audio equipment. Additionally they say "the error is your player's, and not in our CD's".
I am at a very moral dillemma because every time I buy music I first search the MP3's and then write down the titles I want to find. Some of these titles are only to be found on CD's and some of 'm are only to be found on vinyl.
legally bought music is working against me now!
---
I used to go to the recordstore and get about 20-30 records whereof 1 or 2 where usable. Whenever I go to the recordstore now I give 20 titles and get 15 useful numbers out of it. I currently have over 800 CD's and over 22.000 records of vinyl. Currently I am buying more on CD because carrying all the vinyl is breaking my back
Since I cannot use the cd's wherever I want and 1 scratch can kill the CD because of this lousy copy protection I need to buy the CD *and* burn the same MP3's to seperate CD's to be sure I can keep using the music I want to play legally!
The secret agent not working everywhere!
I have bought the CD of James Bond (Universal) and it seems not to work in my PC (where I play the most of my music, my PC speakers are the best in my house!) and they seem not to work in my old cd players of my own DJ equipment! Next to that the shop does not want to take the Bond CD back. With the line of defence BMG has by saying "their cd's are fully redbook compliant and it's your player's fault" they also tell you you can bugger off by bringing it back to the shop where you bought your precious CD.
I have bought several other CD's like "Solid Sounds" which is giving me errors as well. Currently I am trying to recover one of the legally bought CD's by searching the MP3's and burning them in the same order on another CD because I cannot just copy it and the CD is damaged by (over)usage as DJ.
BMG's reply of one of their CD's
---
Whenever you send a note to BMG you get the following mail back (unaltered):
"we are sorry you have troubles with our copy protection technology. The copy protection reacts on the special new technology that is build in in burners. Unfortunately htis technics was built in many new CD players, even if they can't copy a cd.
"The copy protection yet does not recognize wheather that burner technics is build in a cd player or in a burner. That's why the cd playern might not play a copy protected CD. Since burner technics are also built in car radios, this may be the reason, why you can't listen to a copyprotected cd in your car.
"As far as we were adviced, our copy protection is according to the Red Book Standart as well as all labelling on the cd.
"A standart home CD player is one that has no burner technics built in. Our Cds play on all Cd players without burner technics.
"There will be no cd manufactured without copyprotection any more."
This seems to limit a lot of options and costs me a lot more to find the numbers, import these from wherever possible and find them on mp3 to have a backup CD of my original CD! Of'course they tell "we are sorry" though they also tell us "the fault is in our bought players and there will be no cd's manufactured without protection anymore"... I wish I should not have read this blasphamy towards a lot of customers!
Moral dillema, I am for the music, not against!
---
Because I am a DJ I cannot tolerate (for myself) to be using illegal material! I live by the music and I live FOR the music and not AGAINST. Seems to be BMG has the same reason but not only FOR the music but to protect their precious wallet!
--- I am known for the ones who want to find me on the net. Is that a privacy risk or a privilege? One might wonder..
Much as their decision sucks they are in a bind. The same issues come up in the discussion of patents.
As soon as a musician creates some music, current technology allows someone to rip it off without paying anything to the musician. There are some musicians who do it for love, but even they need to put bread on the table. They need some way to control subsequent distribution of their work otherwise there is no point in creating in the first place. The point is that some form of copy protection will always be necessary. Instead of whining about it and saying the music companies should get rid of all copy protection people need to come up with a better copy protection method (by better I mean somethign that allows legitimate users to pay for the music and enjoy it while preventing pirates).
Anyway my haporth!
In the last year I've bought hundreds of CD-Rs, but I haven't burned a single music CD. Most of them were for general archiving of stuff on my computer, my photos, downloaded software (mostly free/GPL), software and documentation I've created, and plain old backups.
Though I'm a big music lover, I'm not a big consumer of CDs. I have bought a few in the last year. It's easier to just go out and buy them than spend hours and hours looking for the stuff I want, none of which is mainstream anyway. Who has that kind of time except high school kids? Who, with that kind of time, has the money to buy CDs in the first place?
The bottom line is that they're "losing" a lot less business than they claim. Not all of us buying CD-Rs are putting music on them, and people "pirating" music probably weren't paying customers to begin with.
It's also not a troll. It's dead serious. Put that trout in your ass and smoke it.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Instead of bitching individually (something that's pretty easy for BMG to ignore with canned replies), why don't we convince the manufacturers of "incompatible" CD players to enter the fray.
:-)
Why doesn't someone set up a website listing all the known CD players that *won't* handle BMG's copy-protected disks -- and stick a big "DON'T BUY -- FAULTY DESIGN (according to BMG)" tag alongside them.
The site can then be touted to the mainstream news media (who, if it's pitched appropriately) will eagerly make a lot of noise about it. The result will be some great "public education" and a lot of bad press for those manufacturers who appear on the list.
The next thing you know, BMG will have a hoard of angry corporate lawyers beating on their door, complaining that their client's products and reputation has been defamed by BMG's claims.
I suspect that companies like Alpine, Pioneer, etc have a lot more money, lawyers, and muscle to give BMG an "attitude adjustment" than a cluster of snivelling techie-nerds.
Let's not get angry, let's get smart!
err... grave that is,,
Reece,
I don't see how the circumvention laws apply here, after all the standard doesn't call for copy protection and BMG claim to be standards compliant. So if someone came up with a CD R/W that would read / burn these, then how could anyone complain... it's a "standard" right ?
1) liking "mixed" music
2) owning a mac
3) being a european
fucking fags
Right. There is Reed solomon on the disc. Sure. Very very rudimentary Partity checking mechanism. Again, the lack of EDC and ECC schemes that I was referring to was, again, the added and more complex layers of ECC and EDC that are present in the yellow and orange books. And it's these ECC/EDC schemes that folks always believe that are "more flawed here than there".
Which brings us to the copy protection scheme. Which one are you referring to? I'm only aware of the one you can disable by use of a marker, that doesn't mess with the individual frames (otherwise it stands to reason that marking out a session won't make your other frames copyable all of a sudden) at all.
Explain?
But the other properties of the disc and it's readers are probably just as large a factor in the no-hiccup-playback of your audio. (placement of the reflective layer, lasers reading the discs, firmware/software that interprets what it gets from a CDDA disc....)
Do not let others fight the battles that you have to fight.
There is a thing called false advertisement: CDs adhere to a set of technical standards, any company claiming to be selling CDs must adhere to those. If they claim they do and in fact they don't that is false advertisment, which is prosecutable in most countries I know.
If BMG does not make clear that the "broken CDs" (we need to find an appropriate term for this, we have a great chance here to win the terms in which people speak about broken CDs) will not play in your computer and claims that it is a CD then report it to your Fair Trade Commission, Consumer Protection Bureau or equivalent organization emphasizing that you believe BMG is misleading you maliciously.
BMG will have to either back down or label properly their defective wares, and even if they are not punished most probably the whole affair will highlight the problem in Europe were people are mostly unaware of these issues.
So please, less words and more action. Check you new CDs, specially BMG ones, test them and act in consequence (if they do work then all is moot point).
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Only 2nd hand, making sure they are uncrippled.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
in most countries you can advertise that you are selling one thing and then sell a different one.
Enlist the help of your goverment: complain if it does not play with the appropriate authorities on the grounds that they are deceiving you (in the case the recording comapnies don't inform you properly that their broken CDs are not real CDs, and more importantly, that they are copy protected and that they will not play on computers).
These companies can not have all ways, if they want copy protection they must inform customers and then let us make the choice (I know mine: no crippled CDs).
Use the tools at your disposal, if enough people complain it could become an embarrasment for the companies and the goverment could be making your bidding.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Take a Look!
Probably by being a really, really good album.
This point is rather moot though, it's why I make backups of important CDs, and many tech-savvy users now use the CDs themselves as the archival copies, storing them away after ripping them to their computer so they can play them more conveniently.
BMG are about to learn a hard, hard lesson that any games company could tell them - "copy protection" decreases compatibility, but increases piracy (because pirate copies now have an added value over the originals - they are not crippled and are thus more convenient to use).
I can't help but feel that they'll moan about the lost sales being due to piracy anyway. They have an agenda here, and they're not in a listening mood anymore.
The White Rabbit put on his spectacles.
"Where shall I begin, please your Majesty ?" he asked.
"Begin at the beginning,", the King said, very gravely, "and go on
till you come to the end: then stop."
-- Lewis Carroll
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