Profile of a Hard-Core Gamer

brettlbecker writes "The NYTimes is running a story on Richard L. Stenlund, or, as players of MMORPG Anarchy Online undoubtedly know him, Thedeacon. Quote from the article: "Thedeacon is a celebrity. Mr. Stenlund, meanwhile, feels trapped - trapped in a town too far from big cities where big things happen, trapped in a hand-to-mouth existence, trapped in a mean little culture of cheap thrills and fast-food television." Infamy, perversion, bankruptcy, virtual protests, online counseling. How much do *you* accomplish in 7 hours a day?"

Comments

who's to say?

[sweeney37]

How are we to make a distinction between a hardcore gamer, and an addict? It seems to be a pretty fine line.

Mike

(ps, the nytimes link is the google link)

Re:who's to say?

[TopShelf]

As in most things, it's all defined by hindsight. If the guy ends up whacking himself or others, he's an addict. If other pencil-necked geeks (RIP, Freddie Blassie!) still look up to him, he's "hardcore."

Re:who's to say?

[Transient0]

There are three popular and accepted definitions of an addict. The first is that they pursue their habit to the point where it has a strong negative impact on the rest of their life. The second is that if the person tries, in all earnestness, to give up the activity and finds themselves unable, they are an addict. The third is that they experience significant and measurable withdrawal symptoms when denied the substance or activity.

Medically the second and third are used, with the added caveat that it is not an activity or substance normally considered to be necessary for survival (otherwise we are all food, oxygen and sleep addicts). I should point out now that current psychology and medicine have given up on the distinction between physical and psychological addiction. There is no measurable difference between the two. Even activities such as computer gaming which are non-invasive promote distinct electrical and chemical activities in the brain which can be as strong a basis for addiction as anything.

In answer to your question, I would be pretty sure that anyone who describes themselves as a "hard-core gamer" probably is an addict in the medical sense. In common parlance however, we don't tend to call people addicts to accepted forms of entertainment unless they also fulfill the first requirement. So the actual answer (as addict is commonly used by non-medical people) is that the difference between a hard-core gamer and a gaming addict is that the addicts gaming has a negative impact on his life as a whole (failing school, losing their job, poor eating habits) whereas the hard-core gamer is still relatively well adjusted.

Re:who's to say?

[Stargoat]

Gaming Addicts? That's ridiculous. The only difference between games and television is the level of interaction.

It is simply easy for someone to blame someone else, rather than looking closer at home. If there is trouble, blame someone else. Let's blame Marilyn Manson, South Park (Canada!), or Games.

Re: who's to say?

[dave_mcmillen]

How are we to make a distinction between a hardcore gamer, and an addict? It seems to be a pretty fine line.

Or, indeed, how are we to distinguish between a hardcore gamer and a dropout? Because that's what the article says to me about this guy: he just wants to drop out of society. In another decade, he might have moved to a commune and taken a lot of drugs. Instead, he spends all of his time in a simulated world, with much the same effect: he's effectively withdrawn from society. Fair enough, but we should bear in mind that this is not representative of the vast majority of gamers, in terms of either their behaviour or their motivations for playing games.

It surprises the hell out of me that he's married.

Re:who's to say?

[Surak]

Intrestingly enough the terms 'hard-core drinker' and 'alcohol addict' (or 'alcoholic', as we usually refer to alcohol addicts) are nearly synonymous. The term addict in common parlance largely depends on the taboos of the culture it seems. Someone who is into 'hard-core pr0n' is often called a 'sex addict.' But a 'hard-core coder' is almost never called a 'workaholic' or a 'work addict' because our largely Puritanical society defines 'hard-core work' to be a Good Thing(tm), while 'hard-core sex' is a Bad Thing(tm). Whether 'hard-core gaming' is a Bad Thing(tm) or not probably depends largely on who you talk to. In the Slashdot crowd, this would be a revered quality, but in the Soccer Mom crowd, this would probably be looked upon negatively.

Re:who's to say?

[ReTay]

Actually there is a lot more to it. It is D&D (role playing) and a chat room and team reinforcement (Clans).People do a lot more then play the games thus it means more to them.And you can be someone in the game even if you are not in real life. I would define âoehard coreâ as someone outside best buy the morning a new game is released. An âoeaddictâ (to me at least) sticks with the same game even when more sophisticated one comes out.

Re:who's to say?

[56ker]

It's hard to pursue an addiction though - unless you're getting paid to do so. However you're right - workaholics are looked up to or envied - whereas sex addicts are called nymphomaniacs and considered dangerous.

Re:who's to say?

[RazorJ_2000]

"There are three popular and accepted definitions of an addict. The first is that they pursue their habit to the point where it has a strong negative impact on the rest of their life. The second is that if the person tries, in all earnestness, to give up the activity and finds themselves unable, they are an addict. The third is that they experience significant and measurable withdrawal symptoms when denied the substance or activity."

Son-of-a-bitch!!! I'm addicted to taking a shit everyday!! Damn. What a problem to have.

Re:who's to say?

[Anonymous Coward]

----QUOTED FROM GRANDPARENT----
Medically the second and third are used, with the added caveat that it is not an activity or substance normally considered to be necessary for survival (otherwise we are all food, oxygen and sleep addicts).
----QUOTED FROM GRANDPARENT----

Re:who's to say?

[Deusy]

I'd vehemently disagree with this. There is a clear distinction between a hardcore drinker and an alcoholic.

Somebody who is only a hardcore drinker is somebody who can drink a lot over a short period and not suffer severe effects. I have a few friends who will binge drink over 4-5 days and come out of that period in reasonable condition. But after that period they will return to a relatively alcohol free lifestyle.

An alcoholic, an addict, may also show the qualities of a hardcore drinker. But an alcoholic has become emtionally/physically/somehow dependent on alcohol and is unable to resist the urges and stop after any period of drinking. They will wake up and drink til they sleep until they get help breaking that addiction.

Re:who's to say?

[Doom Ihl' Varia]

On the subject of hard-core vs soft-core porn... There is a distinction that has absolutely nothing to do with "addict". Hard-core porn simply involves actual sex (classical, orale, or otherwise). Soft-core is just a woman (or man I guess...) posing.

Re:who's to say?

[Anonymous Coward]

"Puritanical"?

Me thinks someone has some resentment for people daring to judge others...

It's called Freedom of Association and Freedom of expression. I don't like something you do, I've got the right to not associate with you, and let you know about it at the same time.

If that hurts your feelings or damages your ego... too friggin bad.

Perhaps he himself has some Hard-Core/Addictions that others do not approve of. If that's the case, go hang out with like minded types. It is YOUR freedom of association. .... Alright. I know it's off topic, but I'm having a bad morning.

I hope yours is better.

Re: who's to say?

[Scholasticus]

Yes, I think you're quite right. In the 60s he might have been a hippy living in a commune. Now we'll have to wait a few decades to see if he morphs into a minivan driving suburbanite soccer dad who tells long, pointless, nostalgic stories about this decade when he used to spend all his time fragging instead of working. "Ah, the good old days ..."

Re:who's to say?

[Uller-RM]

> An âoeaddictâ (to me at least) sticks with the same game even when more sophisticated one comes out.

Well, yes, but as you said, the draw of an MMORPG tends to transcend the actual game. I have two friends who play EQ pretty heavily despite the fact that there are superior games (superior both visually and gameplay-wise) such as AO, DAoC, and Shadowbane out: because all of their friends stay there. EQ has merely become a medium over which a very large group of friends communicate and share experiences -- the game is really just something for them all to do, and if physical distances weren't an issue they'd probably sit around a fire and drink just as readily.

However, they're somewhat well-adjusted people too -- they have jobs that they go to, friends like me that they hang out with in real life also, etc. So I think they're more hard-core players than addicts. Having played a lot of MMORPGs in the past and currently playing none, I think of the addicts as the kind who play constantly and will allow NO interruption -- neglecting marriages, children, jobs, etc. in pursuit of the game and the people within. Their life is the game, instead of the game being one of the largest parts of their life.

Re:who's to say?

[Luveno]

Puritanism - The haunting fear that someone, somewhere, may be having a good time.

Re:who's to say?

[Surak]

"Puritanical"?

Me thinks someone has some resentment for people daring to judge others...

I was merely speaking factually. The U.S. was founded -- in large part -- by Puritans who left England to be free to practice their way of life, which was largely in conflict with the Anglican church.

The values of these Puritans -- which are describe to be "Puritanical" -- had a large impact on the culture of the United States. There were taboos about sex and modesty which are largely nonexistant in most European countries. In Europe it is commonplace to find nudity and even sex on what they refer to as the 'telly'. Here, however, nudity on TV, particularly during certain hours of the day, is considered a violation of FCC rules. This stems from our cultural taboos about sex, which were largely inherited from those early Puritans.

Hard work, on the other hand, is largely revered for the same reason. One main concept of Puritan philosophy is that 'idle hands (or idle mind) are the playground of the Devil.' One was to work all day, and rest only for short periods to avoid being tempted by Satan. This attitude also had a large influence on our culture in the U.S. and is largely responsible for our capitalistic society which reveres hard work, and shuns those who avoid it.

It has nothing to do with resentment of any kind.

Re:who's to say?

[edxwelch]

No. To be an addict simply means that you are unable to give it up. You can drink heavily without necessarily being addicted. I've heard of a case of a guy who used to drink a bottle of whiskey every weekend, but then one day decided it was costing him too much money and just gave it up like that.

Re:who's to say?

[MrHanky]

Intrestingly enough the terms 'hard-core drinker' and 'alcohol addict' (or 'alcoholic', as we usually refer to alcohol addicts) are nearly synonymous.

And in other parts of the world, the term "hard-core drinker" is synonymous with "Irishman". But you'd be out of your mind to say "Irishman" is synonymous with "alcoholic", so your definition is clearly wrong.

Re:who's to say?

[Anonymous Coward]

for the record, some things associated with the Puritans did not come from them. In fact, many of the things like anti-alcohol teetotalers gained prominence in the late 1800's and early 1900's. In fact, some studies have shown that the level of church going was lowest and alcohol consumption per person was highest around the revolutionary period.

Re: who's to say?

[Azureflare]

Whoa, so you're saying gamers don't drop out of society? How is that possible? Games are completely virtual and separate from "real" society, so how can they still be a part of "real" society when they are also part of a virtual society? If the game isn't an MMORPG I can see that... Playing Tower Toppler every few days for a bit is probably not that big a withdrawal from society. But, if you play an MMORPG, how can you not withdraw from society? Imagine if, instead of spending those 8 hours playing a MMORPG like Anarchy Online, that you spent time with your family, or whatever other constructive things you can think of. Or even, sleeping! (MMORPG players are infamous for not sleeping very much; I remember in AO staying up with people until 5 am in the morning, and they had to leave for work at 7...)

I've been wrestling with this, because I really like MMORPGs, but I just can't maintain a real life while I'm playing those games; Of course, I tend to spend 8-12 hours a day playing, so maybe I'm just an addict and shouldn't be let near the darn things. Just so you know I recently stopped playing DAoC...

All I know is, once Star Wars Galaxies is out, you won't be seeing many pasty-faced nerds walking the streets...

BTW what are your motivations for playing games? Mine seem to be that I play them when I can't find anything better to do. Of course, if I wasn't playing games, I probably could find something better to do than the video game.

Re:who's to say?

[mark2003]

The puritans were teetotal.

The reason the people involved in the revolution (that you hear about) drank was because they generally were proper, boozy Brits who just happened to want to pay less tax, not your religious puritan wusses.

I always find it ironic that the puritans left England fleeing religious persecution when the reason they were so disliked by everyone was because they spent their whole time criticising everyone else for not being religious enough. If they had had any power they would have burnt everyone in England as witches - rather like their wonderfully enlightened behaviour in Salem etc. It's rather like the Taleban fleeing the religious persecution of a secular state.

Re:who's to say?

[Syberghost]

Gaming Addicts? That's ridiculous. The only difference between games and television is the level of interaction.

Then why do you find the term ridiculous? There are people who watch television so much it destroys their lives, as well. Even their health can fall victim to their addiction. In the case of TV addiction, it might manifest as morbid obesity.

Being addicted to anything destroys lives. Doesn't mean the thing should be outlawed, but it certainly means it should be studied.

Re: who's to say?

[geekoid]

There is a difference between 2 hours of escapism and dropping out of society.
I work, play with my kids, talk to my wife, get the mail mow my lawn, pay taxes, etc...
I also game.
If all I wanted to do was game, not work, not interact with other member of society, then I would be dropping out of society.
In the 60's you would drop out by joining a commune, not interact with anybody outside that commune, and escape by tking drugs.

Yes that was a broad generalizaion, but the point holds.

Re:who's to say?

[feepness]

How are we to make a distinction between a hardcore gamer, and an addict? It seems to be a pretty fine line.

It's obvious! Everquest kills, Anarchy Online heals.

Re:who's to say?

[deblau]

our largely Puritanical society defines 'hard-core work' to be a Good Thing(tm), while 'hard-core sex' is a Bad Thing(tm).

For a brief, shining moment, I imagined a society where just the opposite were true. Oh well...

Re: who's to say?

[Lemmy Caution]

Here's the rub - he's aware that he needs to focus on his financial well-being; he admits that they need a better income, yet he plays constantly. He's wasting time that could be better spent improving his income position.

Why?

It's obvious why, on a psychological level. He's a computer hardware tech without a college degree and minimal social skills - nothing could be less comfortable for him than going out and finding a job, humbling himself dozens of times in interviews and probably having to settle for a rank-and-file position that doesn't pay that much. In the real world, he can't command a lot of status and he knows it.

On Anarchy Online, he is an eminence grise. He has the respect and admiration of hundreds.

People (in the initial stages, especially) pursue addictions because of some reward-structure involved, and the reward structure here is completely transparent. He gets a lot more positive feedback in AO than he does elsewhere. He's cathected his normal need for social validation into a domain where he has disprortionate success. I would probably do the same in his shoes: I have an ex-girlfriend who did, too. It's lucky for him he has a wife and an internal compass that keeps him realistic (the "move to Las Vegas" plan might actually not be a bad one) and I hope for the best for him.

I'm not that surprised he's married, though. He seems likeable and thoughtful and reasonably self-aware.

Re:who's to say?

[macrom]

The opposite was true. These two places called Sodom and Gommorah. Unfortunately the Christian God burned them to the ground and now all we're left with is Persian Kitty and a bunch of pop-up ads.

Re: who's to say?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why does that surprise you? His wife is probably fat and ugly and he's trying to avoid her.

Re:who's to say?

[Anonymous Coward]

- whereas sex addicts are called nymphomaniacs and considered dangerous.

That's because being a workaholic doesn't spread herpes.

Re:who's to say?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because being a workaholic doesn't spread herpes.

Depends on what your work involves.

Re:who's to say?

[Sunda666]

good god, dude, this capalert.com link is the funniest thing EVER!

"# igniting anal wind then being incinerated"

LMAO!

think im gonna read more ratings on this site to find good movies to watch (i.e., ones with sex, drugs and pointless violence)

cheers.

Re:who's to say?

[skti]

Wow, they took the South Park movie way too seriously.

South Park is an incredibly dangerous movie for those who do not understand or are developing an understanding of the Gospel ....... INCREDIBLY dangerous.

Can't get much funnier than that.

Re:who's to say?

[DataCannibal]

I'm afraid you aren't even speaking factually. The puritans didn't play a large part in founding the US. In fact the puritans were a small minority of settlers who came to live in the US and played only a very small role in 18th century America.

Re:who's to say?

[deaddrunk]

They will wake up and drink til they sleep until they get help breaking that addiction.

Not quite. I'm an alcoholic, but I don't drink to excess and only do it in my spare time. However a day without a drink is unimaginable to me. I'm not quite as addicted to alcohol as I used to be to cigarettes, but nevertheless I am still addicted.

Re:who's to say?

[Hard_Code]

"I have a few friends who will binge drink over 4-5 days and come out of that period in reasonable condition. But after that period they will return to a relatively alcohol free lifestyle."

Uh...you do know that that is a hallmark of alcoholism right? "oh, no I'm not an alcoholic, I just get randomly smashed for days"

Re:who's to say?

[Anonymous Coward]

The puritans were teetotal.

Actually, that's not true. At all. Not even a little bit.

Re:who's to say?

[Hard_Code]

Yeah, depiction of violence is free speech. But cursing and nudity? OMIGOD! Censor it!

Re:who's to say?

[aminorex]

Who considers nymphomaniacs dangerous?
Certainly not I. Some of my best friends
have been nymphomaniacs, and while they
were certainly dangerous, it was not due
to nymphomania -- that was just candy.

One of my greatest regrets is that I did not
marry a nymphomaniac.

Oh, and then there are those who manage
to blend nymphomania with workaholism, by
working in a sex industry....

Re:who's to say?

[aminorex]

Any definition which fails to include oxygen,
water, and nutrient addiction by any means
other than special-casing them must be a
political definition, excercising a value
judgement, and as such is not useful for
constructive factual discussion with anyone
who doesn't share your value judgements.
Instead, it's useful as a bludgeon to suppress
competing ideas unfairly.

Re:who's to say?

[aminorex]

That's a very astute comparison. The taliban
were mostly pakistani seminary students who fled
an autocratic military regime (pakistan) to form
a society based on conscience and shared values
in a wilderness (afghanistan). The puritans were
mostly english religious protestants who fled an
autocratic military regime (england) to form a
society based on conscience and shared values
in a wildnerness (new england).

Re:who's to say?

[Crazy Eight]

Well, maybe. There are times when I do that, but I'll just as often go 4-6 months without a single drink. Since I tend bar I've no lack of access to booze. I could get drunk every day -- even at work. I simply don't want to.

As a counterpoint to your binge drinker, there is the "nursing" type, who never really gets drunk, but has one or two stiff drinks every day. They never really lose control of themselves, but are dependant on maintaining a low key buzz and have difficulty going without.

Re:who's to say?

[Deusy]

I binge drink for a couple of days every 2-3 months. I do it because it is fun. And you are suggesting I'm addicted?

Addictions are impulsive things you do repeatedly, not an occasional flourish. By your definition and kind of regularly occuring event, no matter the time span, is an addiction.

Re:who's to say?

[Restil]

I found myself consumed in Ultima Online for the first 6 months is was available, played it a minimum of 8 hours a day and for the last few months, I found myself absolutely hating the game, and it most certainly had a negative influence on my life. For all practical purposes, I would consider myself addicted. I would spend all day at work dreaming, thinking, planning, or researching the game so when I finally got home I could play more efficiently, etc. I couldn't wait to get out of there. That game was calling to me. I stayed up very late playing it, I would wake up early to play it. I dropped out of school to play it.

Yet, on a lark, one day I was replying to posts in one of the newsgroups. I can't even remember what the post was about, and I can't find it in the google archives, but I started the reply as a hard core gamer, and 10 minutes later when I was done, I had decided to quit. Went home that night, logged in, gave away all my stuff, shut it down, and never played it again.

However, unlike a dependancy, I never once longed to go back to it. Not the next day, or a week later, or months later. I didn't miss it at all.

I've never tried to quit smoking or quit using drugs, primarily because I never tried them in the first place, so I have no idea how easy something like that would be to quit, but I'm quite sure it's orders of magnitude more difficult. I certainly can't seem to kick my caffiene habit, which is a pretty mild addiction as they go. So it's hard to consider that the game had much control over me. I willingly devoted my life to it, for reasons I can't fully explain. But it served no purpose. Satisfied no need. Nothing stopped me from quitting, and nothing tried to draw me back.

If I had to guess, I would say the draw to these types of games is that they never end. You can't win, you can't lose, you just keep on existing. Almost all games, be they FPS, adventure, etc have a defined point at which you can say the game is over. At some point you can easily choose to shut down the game or start a new one, but you don't feel like you're walking out of the middle of a party when you think it's time to quit.

And I have no doubt that the MMORPGs are designed with just that addictive tendancy in mind. There is no revenue scheme more ideal than a legal form of crack, especially when you know very well that you can market it to kids. As long as you keep it relatively free of cultural taboos, games like GTA will get all the ire of the anti-gaming crowd, and you can slip under the radar.

-Restil

Re:who's to say?

[Surak]

They were a minority in the 18th century, yes, but they had a large political and social influence on our society. In 17th century, they comprised the *majority* of immigrants, while, yes, in the 18th century, their role diminished.

Re:who's to say?

[Anonymous Coward]

Perhaps you'd be better off picking up a copy of Max Weber's work to see how historically and theologically Protestant movements (like the Puritans) shaped Captialism and views of labor.

Re:who's to say?

[Transient0]

I said they are usually special-cased out. They don't have to be. There are a lot of things we can't live with out and it can be very difficult sometimes to draw a line between things that are strictly necesarry and things that are functionally necessary (where does light fit in). To tell the truth, in many ways we could say that we are addicted to oxygen nutrients and water. The withdrawal effects are incredibly similar in some cases. The main difference is that oxygen withdrawal will definitely kill you whereas heroin withdrawal only might.

The only special case that I include is "necessary for survival" I think that that hardly counts as a magic-number type of anomaly. The distinction is in there basically for the purpose of making "addiction" a useful word in the human language.

Re:who's to say?

[56ker]

lol - you obviously don't live in England. lol

Re:who's to say?

[murphj]

The difference between an addict and a heavy user:

Thurgood: My name is Thurgood. I am here today because I am addicted to marijuana.
Support Group Member (Bob Saget): I used to suck dick for coke. You ever sucked some dick for marijuana?
Thurgood: No, No, I can't say I have.

Re:who's to say?

[JeanBaptiste]

The reason the people involved in the revolution (that you hear about) drank was because they generally were proper, boozy Brits who just happened to want to pay less tax,

and what happened to the economy/standard of living with such low taxes? over the next 250 years or so? seems like a pretty good plan in hindsight, no?

Re:who's to say?

[LPetrazickis]

LOL. Actually, I think it was the Jewish God who did that. The Christian and Muslims Gods are mere impostors.;)

Not that it matters. Cthulhu shall Devour all three when the Stars are Right and He Rises from R'lyeh.:P

Re:who's to say?

[junkgrep]

Don't try to argue with the zealots. They'll only say you're in denial and then pray to their higher power that you someday see the light.

Re:who's to say?

[junkgrep]

There were taboos about sex and modesty which are largely nonexistant in most European countries.

And yet... they still managed to have a full THIRD of all children concieved out of wedlock. And they had sex in front of their kids, often in the same bed. Just goes to show you that the "conservative" mores of one age don't always translate directly into what we think of as the conservative mores of today.

Re:who's to say?

[junkgrep]

Back in Revolutionary times, Americans were pretty much the hardest drinkers in the world, considering amount of pure alcohol consumed per person. We even outdrank the Irish. While everyone thinks of Prohibition as a huge failure, the truth is that, considering how laxly it was enforced, it looks like a major success as far as social engineering goes because it severly and permanently reduced the amount of drinking per capita.

Re:who's to say?

[junkgrep]

The fact is, that majority of people who have problems even with drugs and alcohol are more like you than the classic portrayal of an alcoholic. They realize that they have a problem, re-evaluate their priorities, and either quit or cut back effectively.

Re:who's to say?

[dapic]

simple. the difference lies in the emphasis: "hard-core" is more of a quality-wise measurement, while "addict" is more quantitively speaking. Of course they overlap.

Re:who's to say?

[mark2003]

I think that if look in many western European (and I include America) countries at that time people drank a vast amount of alcohol - Britain, for example, was in a plague of alcoholism in the working classes caused by the ready availability of cheap gin (and of course vast numbers of aristos permanently drunk, but on better booze). Many articles were written around that time of the social harm it caused in terms of crime (London was probably the most dangerous city in the world at that time - the murder levels were incredible) and even huge, violent riots in 1743 against a tax introduced on gin. The Irish on the other hand still lived in a very poor agricultural state without easy access to (or the means to afford) distilled alcohol.

Re:who's to say?

[Surak]

And yet... they still managed to have a full THIRD of all children concieved out of wedlock. And they had sex in front of their kids, often in the same bed. Just goes to show you that the "conservative" mores of one age don't always translate directly into what we think of as the conservative mores of today.

Of course having children conceived out of wedlock and having sex in front of your children is only considered immoral in certain religions and cultures. In many religions and cultures there is absolutely no problem with this, so really your argument is a strawman. If sex and giving birth to children are viewed to be a sacred and special act and are revered as being part of nature, then there is no reason for either of these acts to be considered immoral.

Re:who's to say?

[junkgrep]

Do you even know what "strawman" is? The point is EXACTLY that cultural mores differ: and while people assume that our sexual morality is "Puritan," its actually very different from what the Puritans.

Re:who's to say?

[leandrod]

the reason they were so disliked by everyone was

First, you assume such a phenomenon has a single cause. It probably has several, none of them sufficiently preponderant to be singled out without qualification.

Second, you assume they were disliked by everyone. There are several other possibilities, like that they were feared by the religious authorities, that they were despised by the secular ones... I have no information about they being disliked by everyone. You know, incredible as it may seem to such a competitive, ahistorical and accomodated society as the US, not every persecution is justified.

> they spent their whole time criticising everyone else for not being religious enough

Did they? I assumed they spent their time praying, studying the Bible, preaching the Gospel, helping each other and the needy, and criticised people for being religious hypocrites and noblemen for being hedonistic.

> like their wonderfully enlightened behaviour in Salem

How deep into folly will men go to defend their unreasonable, comfy and cozy unbelief...

Just look at how widespread was witchhunt, how much time it endured, and how it ceased. And at the then current beliefs about witches. You will see it was a relatively mild persecution as far as persecutions usually go. Not much honest, but the guys ended up repenting, that is more than what is usually expected from your standard inquisitor.

Re:who's to say?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll show those zealots some inner light by shoving this 14 inch maglite up their rectum.

Re:who's to say?

[V_M_Smith]

Part of the reason everyone in Britain drank prodigious amounts of alcohol back then was the fact that the availablility of potable water was quite low. The Thames was horribly polluted, as was the groundwater anywhere near a population center. Drinking gin rather than water was about the only way to avoid dysentery.

Maybe i'm just dumb

[seinman]

but what's AO? I'm not about to waste my time making a fake NYT account just to see what those letters mean.

Re:Maybe i'm just dumb

[martingunnarsson]

Anarchy online

Re:Maybe i'm just dumb

[Quietust]

Let's follow the pattern set by other game names:
UO == Ultima Online
PSO == Phantasy Star Online
So, AO == America Online!
Hmm, that might explain a few things...

Re:Maybe i'm just dumb

[jdh-22]

Anarchy Online is a game much like Everquest. But it has kinda of a twist to it. The players make up the story line. There is a war going on, between 2 divisions, the Omni, and the Clan. The players have been given the foundation of the starting storyline, but the players (with the help of some special events) keep the story going by fighting the opposing side. It is based on a more technologicly advanced culture. Good place to read into the game's story line, look here.

Re:Maybe i'm just dumb

[Anonymous Coward]

And poof, michael edits the article description to clearly define it as Anarchy Online. It takes the fun out of everything...

Re:Maybe i'm just dumb

[grub]

You missed:

GO == Goatse.cx Online

Re:Maybe i'm just dumb

[Moonshadow]

For the past two years I've been using an NYC account that someone else posted here.

userid: slashdot2001
passwd: slashdot2001

Enjoy. I have. ;)

Re:Maybe i'm just dumb

[Anonymous Coward]

random nytimes registration account generator.

http://www.majcher.com/nytview.html

Dupe?

[shibbydude]

Isn't this a dupe? It's an interesting article, but I'm just asking. Because I think Slashdot editors ran an article just like this a while back.

Re:Dupe?

[Andrewkov]

Most articles are dupes ... I have a bad short-term memory, so I still enjoy reading Slashdot.

Re:Dupe?

[L7_]

I don't think its a dupe, just that there are mutliple articles starting to come out about the 'addictions of computer gaming' from various sources.

So, while it may seem familiar, I don't think its a dupe per se just an article about a very similar topic.

Re:Dupe?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is not a dupe as such, but it is full of lies and half truths.

Anarchy Online

[Prince_Ali]

At least that is the only online game with those initials that I can think of.

i know how he feels!

[Horny Smurf]

"excellent" karma, but that doesn't impress girls in the "real" world.

Re:i know how he feels!

[Zathrus]

Somehow I suspect it doesn't impress girls in the "virtual" world either.

Re:i know how he feels!

[Anonymous Coward]

"Want to see my broadband connection? oh baby. I'm a level 200 sex GOD"

People suck

[kaltkalt]

"The more you deal with people, the more you hate people" ... ain't that the truth?

Re:People suck

[Anonymous Coward]

Back in 6th grade or so, a kid wore a hirt that said "The more people I like, the more I like my dog".

After we pointed out that he must be pretty personal with his diog, he never wore it again.

Re:People suck

[Anonymous Coward]

That probably was: "The more people I meet, the more I like my dog."

At any rate, people like you make people like me like their cats a lot.

Re:People suck

[Deusy]

That depends on the kind of people you deal with and the company you keep.

I get the impression from the article that Richard Stenlund has few friends and the people he deals with (bear in mind he's a computer repair person) are probably computer illiterate and just want their machines fixed, probably appearing very condescending when dealing with him when in reality they just want their PC fixed and working again.

If he's afraid to be himself in reality (he claims he can be perverted online, but not in reality) it's either personal inhibitions - possibly lacking self confidence and dignity - or the fact he is disturbed. Most people are perverts in an acceptable manner (ie no kiddie/animal porn) and plenty of people are capable of expressing it. UK viewers need only watch late night Channel 5 to find that out.

Spending 7 hours a day on a computer game is indicative of an addiction and/or a lacking social life. He needs to 'get a life' and find out that the a lot of real world is indeed a beautiful and interesting place if you get out there and find it, and a lot of people are likeable and interesting - it just depends who you mix with.

If anything, I'd say Stenlund is immature and his wife irresponsible for letting him be that way. I'd be curious to know how he met his wife - probably online. And I'm not judging either him or her - they may be very decent people. But something is seriously wrong, even by Slashdot standards.

Re:People suck

[flynt]

Cats are truly a pathetic animal.

Re:People suck

[zimbu]

And I'm not judging either him or her

I'm not judging them either, but they're seriously fscked up!!! Just to clarify, I'm not judging them.

Re:People suck

[Deusy]

Touche.

Although I would point out that disapproving of somebody's lifestyle and/or conduct is very different from judging them as people. Were I to meet this guy, I'd hold no preconceptions of who he would be.

Re:People suck

[Anonymous Coward]

So are lamas...

Re:People suck

[Sunda666]

I bet cats think the same about us...

Humans are truly a pathetic animal.

cheers.

Re:People suck

[Anonymous Coward]

What would you rather fight?
150 pound dog or a 150 pound cat?
Cats are highly efficient killers and you need to earn their affection, unlike dumb ass dogs.

Re:People suck

[Anonymous Coward]

Not that there's anything wrong with that ...

Re:People suck

[Anonymous Coward]

they're just stupid animals

Re:People suck

[Anonymous Coward]

If cats could think, I doubt that is what they'd think about. But they can't. Cheers.

Re:People suck

[i chose quality]

naah, they're just animals.

stupidity is a human characteristic, that requires a higher mode of not thinking... :)

Google. Blah.

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/06/12/technology/circu its/12play.html?ex=1055995200&en=2146e82adce8b0ea& ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE

hehe

[CheechBG]

trapped in a town too far from big cities where big things happen, trapped in a hand-to-mouth existence, trapped in a mean little culture of cheap thrills and fast-food television.

wow, so they pretty much summed up Comic Book Guy, now who is this guy again?

/I got nothin' :)

Re:hehe

[CrazyTalk]

They also just insulted everyone who lives in small towns. Madison is a great place (no, I don't live there, but if I did I'd be pissed!)

Re:hehe

[MikeFM]

Actually that sums up life for most people I know - myself included. All I can say to such people (myself included) is that now and then you have to say what the fuck and go out and do things that are a little crazy. Fly, drive, take a bus, or walk cross country seeing new places and meeting new people. Do stuff you never thought you could do. Make choices that aren't the safe thing to do. Sure you may have to go back to your shitty home and bad job eventually but at least you aren't trapped there because you can leave. Your cage is in your mind. You can let yourself out at any time.

I just wish their were dragons and villians to slay in real life. I'd really love tramping across the country chasing dangerous bad guys and getting paid to whack them. I'd probably get in trouble the first time I whacked a PHB though.. doubt there is a bounty out on them.. but there should be one!

If I did this I would be wealthy too

[teamhasnoi]

Productivity went up by 56% after I installed the iLoo.

Geez, no wonder the guy is lv 200, and rich in the game. It looks like he's trying to 'lay an egg' right now.

Apparently, some people *can* mix their 'buisiness' with pleasure.

Re:If I did this I would be wealthy too

[curtisk]

LOL, I was wondering what was going on in that pic of him! I assumed he was dropping a log into his Deskchair-let , you know those combo toilet / desk chairs for those hardcore computer users, so you don't have to get up.

Either way, fiber would probably help him out.

Funcom lives?

[Anonymous Coward]

People still play AO?

Re:Funcom lives?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, and it sucks much less than two years ago. I might go as far as say that it's quite OK game. Today's monster computers can even run it smoothly!

Tho I must give credit to this guy - he bought it around launch time, and he's still around.

I myself bought it on the launch day, and cancelled in disgust before the free month was over. It was bug-ridden lagfest at that point.

Today, AO is quite playable, and while there are still some rather strange 'features' around, nothing is obiviously broken. I think the only major thing right now is the game's tendency to sometimes randomly boot you to desktop when zoning, but it's quite infrequent and could be related to video card drivers. There is also a phat expansion pack coming soon (Shadowlands), which at least promises ton of new stuff. Of course I'm a realist - I full expect shadowlands to break 437892457 things at launch, but hey, it _could_ be stable and fun :)

I myself forgot AO after launch for a LONG time. However, I took the bait when they offered a new free trial month to old cancellers a while back, and I must say it worked - I've been a subscriber for something like two months since, and I still play it. My time is about equally divided between AO and Star Wars Galaxies beta right now, but the fact that I still DO spend time in AO should speak volumes about the current quality of AO (or, in theory, it might indicate something about current state of SWG, but it's beta and under NDA, so *jedi mind trick*I never said anything*/jedi mind trick*)

Is it surprising?

[foxtrot]

After all, this is much of the draw of an online community such as an MMORPG-- it doesn't matter if you're from Podunk, where there's not even a stoplight and you know all hundred people in town, or if you live in the great metropolis where you don't even know the name of the looney across the hall. You can step out of the world you live in and into one of your own choosing.

Should we be surprised if this is a little addictive? Should we be surprised if people want to spend more time in the world they want to instead of the world they're forced to?

-JDF

Re:Is it surprising?

[op51n]

Well, I think what it proves is that it's easier to get 'addicted' to if you live in the middle of nowhere. It gives you a release, a great way to ignore reality. Unfortunately living where I do I don't even get the option of MMORPG's due to lack of broadband. I can only hope for the UK to start offering WiFi in rural areas... Yea, right!

Re:Is it surprising?

[EastCoastSurfer]

Should we be surprised if this is a little addictive?

Not at all. MMORPGs are like 0.0.1 versions of the matrix. They provide an altered reality that many people find more exciting than this reality. We could get into the whole question of what is real, but I will leave that for the philosophy folks.

I do imagine at some point in the future that you will really "plug" into the games and they will seem as real as life itself. Many people will end up not wanting to ever leave their new reality and we may see some sort of social epidemic rise out of it.

Re:Is it surprising?

[bsartist]

I do imagine at some point in the future that you will really "plug" into the games and they will seem as real as life itself. Many people will end up not wanting to ever leave their new reality and we may see some sort of social epidemic rise out of it.

I think Dennis Miller said it best: "When we have virtual reality that you can't distinguish from the real thing, and Joe Sixpack can go down to the local VR center and have sex with a virtual Claudia Schiffer for five bucks a pop, that's when we'll have addiction that makes crack look like Sanka."

That's really sad and pathetic...

[FortKnox]

I'm not gonna play a video game for weeks now...

Moderation is a good thing.

Re:That's really sad and pathetic...

[Anonymous Coward]

is this really "insightuful"?

god dammit i wish I got as many blowjobs as this dude gets modups, and for no reason too.

Re:That's really sad and pathetic...

[Anonymous Coward]

LMAO and now the cock-sucking moderator has posted on this discussion, nullifying the moderation and making me look like a dumb ass.

Nice business plan:

1) Do stupid pointless moderation
2) Let people complain about it
3) Post on the story making the moderation void
4) Make the complainers look like asses
5) PROFIT!!!!

Nice work d00d, whoever you are.

Hardcore Gamer?

[Kozz]

Look no further.

This is a true hardcore gamer .

Re:Hardcore Gamer?

[modecx]

Wow, that can't be very comfortable at all. My neck would be bent out of shape in a few minutes.

Perhaps they should have duct taped his head to the beam as well?

Re:Hardcore Gamer?

[Anonymous Coward]

I think I've been there.

He's not really a hardcore gamer. If he really was a hardcore gamer, he'd be wearing earphones and be drinking Mountain Dew.

Re:Hardcore Gamer?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd like to do that to some of the leety mc leets at LAN parties we have, but I'd add duct tape over the mouth and would take their computer away.

Re:Hardcore Gamer?

[justMichael]

That was funny. The last time I saw anybody duct taped to anything, was when it was the penalty you got for passing out out in the open. Nothing like seeing the guys face when he wakes up taped to a tree with his feet 3' off the ground.

I think this moron actually volunteered for it.

Re:Hardcore Gamer?

[lendude]

I didn't realize you could go prone in CS :P

Re:Hardcore Gamer?

[Anonymous Coward]

Not Mountain Dew - Bawls.

Re:Hardcore Gamer?

[dmszero]

if you were duct taped to a beam, would you be drinking anything in a hurry?

guys.. guys.. GUYS get down from here.. GUYS? i really need to pee.. guys? GUYS?

dms0

Consider the source...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the New York Times. I'll wait until a reputable newspaper writes about it without all the we're-summing-up-the-trend-so-you-don't-have-to verbage.

^FLAMEBAIT^

[DumbWhiteGuy777]

Oh man, I bet you've pissed off the 12 year old gamer section of Slashdot. I'd watch out. They will sooo 0wn you with their Broad Axes of Destruction(+25 Dex, +10 Str, +2 to all Skills).

Re:^FLAMEBAIT^

[tomstdenis]

Actually it was a serious question. I really want to know why gaming is a "skill". When I was 12 I played the piano, I was in swimming lessons, played baseball and was active in scouts.

I'd say playing the piano or knowing how to revive humans or being able to survive [to a limited degree] in the woods is a heck of alot better than being a lvl200 Daemon dude with a +12 Sword.

Tom

Re:^FLAMEBAIT^

[DumbWhiteGuy777]

Well, you, sir, are wrong.

Re:^FLAMEBAIT^

[untaken_name]

Actually it was a serious question. I really want to know why gaming is a "skill". When I was 12 I played the piano, I was in swimming lessons, played baseball and was active in scouts.

I'd say playing the piano or knowing how to revive humans or being able to survive [to a limited degree] in the woods is a heck of alot better than being a lvl200 Daemon dude with a +12 Sword.

So I suppose someone who is good at baseball has no skills? If you don't believe gaming takes skill, then why don't we have a small competition some time? I'll pick something that I consider myself to be 'skilled' in, and if you can beat me without developing skills of your own, I'll concede the point.
Also, why does what *you* consider to be 'better' apply to anyone else? Perhaps playing the piano or reviving humans or surviving in the woods is someone else's idea of 'wasted time,' but no one's suggesting that if you do those things, you should be forced to stop and play games. Why don't people use their time in the way they want to? What business is it of *yours* if they're 'wasting time' or not? Isn't it theirs to waste?

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[tomstdenis]

The last sentence was supposed to read "Hard Core Gamer..." but I missed the 'd'.

Pays to aim I guess...

They had gamers like these in the 80s...

[Azadre]

... but their addiction consisted of cocaine and not video games. In ten years, caffine will be the thing gamers become addicted to! "I don't want to play Doom IV again, but why not - I haaave the POOOOOWEER!"

How much do *I* accomplish in 7 hours a day?

[DrJohnnie]

about 15 minutes of actual work....

Re:How much do *I* accomplish in 7 hours a day?

[Anonymous Coward]

I hear that...I've been at work for 93 minutes and all I've done is read slashdot comments.

Posting anonymously for safety...

Re:How much do *I* accomplish in 7 hours a day?

[vsack]

Bob Slydell: If you would, would you walk us through a typical day, for you?
Peter Gibbons: Yeah.
Bob Slydell: Great.
Peter Gibbons: Well, I generally come in at least fifteen minutes late, ah, I use the side door--that way Lumbergh can't see me, heh--after that I sorta space out for an hour.
Bob Porter: Da-uh? Space out?
Peter Gibbons: Yeah, I just stare at my desk, but it looks like I'm working. I do that for probably another hour after lunch too, I'd say in a given week I probably only do about fifteen minutes of real, actual, work.

Re:How much do *I* accomplish in 7 hours a day?

[Naikrovek]

heh.

my brother is an everquest addict. in 7 hours of any day of the week, he completes about 1/2 of his everquest time for that day.

he complains about having no income, yet spends $100/week on drugs, $50/week on cigarettes, and about $20/week on alcohol. There is no income stream to support this, either.

It is no wonder this guy profiled has no money. he doesn't work! not hard enough, anyway. owning your own business is not a 9-5 job, and you'll fail if you make it a 9-5 job. buying this game has only worsened his business, and that's why he has no money.

my brother was depressed before he started playing everquest. He has succeeded in escaping his problems in the real world (they haven't forgotten about him though) and now finds solace in an unreal world.

massive online games can be dangerous to people that are wanting to escape the toil of the decisions they've made.

Re:How much do *I* accomplish in 7 hours a day?

[Tim Browse]

my brother is an everquest addict. in 7 hours of any day of the week, he completes about 1/2 of his everquest time for that day.

Obviously not a Maths major, either.

Pervert???

[petronivs]

Great, now everyone in Madison is going to know that even his wife thinks that he's a perv...

re:pervert???

[ed.han]

um, hate to say it, but most wives *know* their husbands are pervs... :D

ed

Re:pervert???

[petronivs]

Hey, it's one thing for my wife to know that I'm a perv, but it's another thing entirely for her to admit it to the world! Most wives don't want the rest of the neighborhood knowing that they knowingly married perverts.

Re:pervert???

[BitchHead]

Never mind just *know*ing it, I'm fairly certain that's one of the reasons my wife married me in the first place.

certainly shouldn't be

[ed.han]

foxtrot's right, of course. good graphics, fat pipe, and you're ready to roll.

however, i think a better question is: is this a good thing? i mean, if you do have to deal w/ the reality of working--on which topic the article is vague--what else is going on in your life? see RL friends? go and do stuff? i gotta admit, i was pretty surprised to learn that he's still married.

me, i've been deliberately avoiding OL gaming specifically b/c i fear the addictiveness. good thing for me i can claim slow dial-up (no broadband).

Re:certainly shouldn't be

[Moonshadow]

me, i've been deliberately avoiding OL gaming specifically b/c i fear the addictiveness. good thing for me i can claim slow dial-up (no broadband).

No kidding. I've avoided the whole MMO scene because I know I would be desperately addicted. Heck, I was in the Planetside beta, and despite the shallowness of the game I was playing for 6-10 hours straight at a time on the weekends. The funny thing is, I really don't play games that often anymore, but there was something about playing with all my friends in a persistant world that was totally and utterly addictive.

Lord, give me the strength to resist Star Wars Galaxies. It ain't gonna be easy. ;)

A lvl 200 character...

[BobRooney]

and a buck-fifty buys you a cup of coffee.

I'm a fan of the MMORPG genre, but while it does provide a nice, temporary escape from mundane every-day life, in the end it IS truly a virtual (read, not real) world. Games like Everquest, DAOC, Shadowbane, AO, UO, etc. are great ways to kill some time and be relatively sociable at the same time, but if you took the average gamer's log of online gaming hours and re-invested those same hours in something like The University of Pheonix Online, they would have a Ph. D or two by now. It's easy to lose sight if reality, particularly when reality isn't too pleasant. Unfortunately we all should be wary of just how much our time is being skewed toward a Virtual existence instead of an actual one.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[kin_korn_karn]

Then we have the perfect solution: make learning more entertaining and self-paced. As long as education is an authority game and not a self-directed one nobody will choose learning over entertainment.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[samael]

I have as little respect for most PhDs as I do for having a level 200 AO character.

Do what brings you the most satisfaction and the hell with anyone who tells you it's "not worthwhile"

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[Anonymous Coward]

slashdot is an authority-based weblog -- the "editors" choose what stories to discuss, then the moderators decide which posts are informative, which ones are trolls, etc.

Compare this to a community based one like kur05hin.org.... articles are written by users. other users can comment on them while they're being written and vote on them making the front page. The articles are less frequent (since they aren't cut/paste jobs like slashdot), but are more diverse and have more thought put into them.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[untaken_name]

Games like Everquest, DAOC, Shadowbane, AO, UO, etc. are great ways to kill some time and be relatively sociable at the same time, but if you took the average gamer's log of online gaming hours and re-invested those same hours in something like The University of Pheonix Online, they would have a Ph. D or two by now.

Sure, if *any* college cost 12.95 a month for access limited only to available time. Of course, since a degree from UPO costs around 50 grand....
it would only take you around 3861 months to pay for it with the same money you're spending on AO.
How is a person playing a ton of games any different from people that read 30+ books a month? Aren't they spending all their time in a virtual universe too? You know, *they* could just get a degree instead....of course, I guess it doesn't matter that each individual person makes their own choices. *You* think time would be better spent a certain way, so if someone doesn't spend it that way, they are 'losing sight of reality.'
Perhaps the millions of TV junkies, game addicts, book freaks, gardening fools, etc don't *want* a University of Phoenix Online degree. Maybe they don't *want* to substitute whatever *your* personal choice would be. Maybe they *like* to spend their time how *they* choose to. When you start telling people how to spend their time, even if you think it's 'better,' we get a little closer to living in a country where an elite few impose their will on everyone. You'd probably be up in arms about someone telling you you had to drop out of school to watch tv, or just sit around....but the principle is the same. I fear people who say they know what's 'best for everyone' because they don't know *me* and I may not agree with them. Not that it matters, but I play video games, watch TV, watch movies, read about 15 books a month, and build things out of wood, metal, and plastic for fun. I'm not a rabid gaming fanboy, but I don't think games are any less valid as entertainment or escape than any other form of entertainment. You can learn from just about any activity, even watching TV.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[FroMan]

I love it when I see folks marked as foe and then find this kind of crap, its reassuring.

There is a certain level of competance you need to function in society. While its a nice idea to make learning fun, some things just simpley will never be fun for everyone. While I serously detest many forms of math, I trudged through the required courses to get my degree. Was it fun, no. Is there a way to make calculus fun? I would seriously doubt it. Is there a way to make calculus fun for everyone, I wouldn't bet your life on it.

The point being is that schooling is not going to be fun, but it is an investment. First by the society (public pre-college) to assure a certain level of competance, second by the individual at any level beyond pre-college to extend ones ability. Like any investment you restrict yourself now, to have more fun later. If you can make it fun until later too, bonus.

Making it an authority issue is a false claim here. You are trying to change the issue. Learning is required to function within society, simple. If you have authority issues, you choose not to function within society, as police have authority over you, the government has authority over you, your parents (until 18ish) have authority over you, and your teachers also. Do you refuse to pay taxes because you don't want to? Do you break laws because you don't want to follow them? Do you tell your parents to go lay an egg any time they tell you to do something? Why then do you refuse to learn under an authoritive education system?

Sure, some folks learn differently than others, but that does not mean that education is authority oriented.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[Greyfox]

Once you get out of high school, education doesn't have to be an authority game any more. It's just that most people don't know how to play it any other way.

For that matter, even in high school you have a lot more control than most people realize. It's just a matter of pursuing the officials to teach you what you want to know. This wouldn't even occur to most high school students. It didn't for me either -- I only realized it later. I think if more people made the education system work for them, life would be a lot more interesting for those people.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[BobRooney]

Tv, movies, books, gardening etc. are all things that are viable alternatives to gaming. In disagreeing (flaming) with me, you actually wound up paraphrasing me. Go garden, read a book, get your offline affairs in order IN ADDITION TO your online ones. A UPO degree was just an example of a "more constructive" use of time. "more constructive" of course is completely subjective and my example was just a for instance. Calm down

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[analog_line]

You should always be wary of how much of your time is being skewed toward ANYTHING. MMORPGs, work, hanging out with friends, clubbing, reading, sports, whatever.

A varied existance is a healthy existance. However, we're all human, and we all are going to devote more time to things that we like to do rather than those we don't enjoy. For some people, school just isn't enjoyable. Mathematically prove to them how going to school and getting a degree would be a billion trillion times better than spending their time gaming online, or whatever their avocation is, and they'll tell you to shove it, because they don't enjoy school. Wasting your free time doing things you hate doesn't make anything better for anyone.

Me, I work to game. It's a passion like basketball, football (American and otherwise), baseball, reading, movies, are to other people. I plan my life around my gaming much like rabid sports fans will plan their lives around their season tickets and SportsCenter. If you want to call me an addict, that's your call. I hold down a job. My clients appreciate my work. I keep myself fed well. I've got a girlfriend that thankfully likes games almost as much as I do. Any passion not kept in check turns into an obsession, and that's when it's dangerous. Be it gaming, books (they don't call academia the Ivory Tower for nothing), basketball (street ball kids who drop out of school to play more ball), gambling, or whatever.

Now that I think of it, obsession is probably a better word than "addiction" for the "gaming addiction."

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[PhxBlue]

A lvl200 character and a buck-fifty buys you a cup of coffee.

Actually, a Lvl 200 character is probably worth a lot more than $1.50 on E-Bay.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[SCHecklerX]

An even better escape is the mountain bike in the spring/summer/fall, and the snowboard in the winter!

I must admit that I lost much training time and also work on my cycling team's event database (embedded perl + MySQL + Apache) while working my way through RTCW.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[kin_korn_karn]

So-called "educators" are the ones that make education into an authority game. There are a lot of professors out there that just don't give a shit, or they got into teaching because they had no power in other areas of their life (to that end I'm thinking of high school teachers)

Personally, I love to learn. I also understand the need to learn things that I may not enjoy inherently or be able to immediately apply. What I don't like is being told how to learn, and being expected to learn under anyone else's style but my own. Many teachers feel the need to force their methods of learning down your throat.

I also don't like arbitrary limits on my personal freedom. I had professors in college (well, for one class before I ran to admissions and changed) that would flunk you for taking bathroom breaks. I'm an adult and a taxpayer and when I was in college I paid tuition - I'll go to the bathroom whenever the hell I want. It's to my benefit to go to class, so there's no need to force me to attend. Attempting to is nothing more than satisfying your own weaknesses.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[hyphz]

Heh, that reminds me of what Richard Bandler used to say (paraphrased):

"Teachers today say they can't interest our kids. Let me get this straight. They have the entire world of science, literature and mathematics to work with and they can't interest our children, but Nintendo Corp. can make our kids obsessively, hours-on-end-every-day interested in an Italian plumber crushing turtles by jumping on them.. and they think the *kids* are doing something wrong."

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[Anonymous Coward]

if you took the average gamer's log of online gaming hours and re-invested those same hours in something like The University of Pheonix Online, they would have a Ph. D or two by now.

And if Americans gave up television we would all have 10-20 phD's by now. The point is people would not spend 7 hours a day studying because it is not entertaining.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[Cromac]

A lvl 200 character and a buck-fifty buys you a cup of coffee.

Have you seen what high level MMORPG characters sell for on Ebay?

Is it foolish or stupid that people will pay real dollars for virtual items/characters? I think so, but you can't deny that there is a lot of real currency trading hands over virtual goods.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[untaken_name]

Tv, movies, books, gardening etc. are all things that are viable alternatives to gaming. In disagreeing (flaming) with me, you actually wound up paraphrasing me. Go garden, read a book, get your offline affairs in order IN ADDITION TO your online ones. A UPO degree was just an example of a "more constructive" use of time. "more constructive" of course is completely subjective and my example was just a for instance. Calm down

Don't worry, I'm plenty calm. However, you missed my point entirely. I was saying that people have the right to spend their time however they wish; they are not obligated to diversify if they do not wish to. I was simply pointing out that one may choose to spend *all* of one's time on the aforementioned activites, and that this would not generally be considered a 'less constructive' use of time, even did they exclude gaming!
I did not flame you. I simply refuted your post. I also did not paraphrase you. I understood that you meant IN ADDITION TO. I, however, did not. I meant EXCLUSIVELY. I would like to point out that forcing people to diversify their activities is just as wrong as forcing people to narrow them. Let me encapsulate my point in one sentance for you, so that you may see I am in no way paraphrasing you: People can spend their time in whatever way they wish, and are able to. (This includes spending 12 hours a day online, if they can afford to.)
Please point out to me where I flamed you, and also please know that no matter how you *read* my words, I'm typing them very calmly. :) Life's too short to think everyone who disagrees with you is personally attacking you.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[TwistedGreen]

:) Good point.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[Durindana]

I'd like to make the case that time spent on any particular habit, pursuit, hobby - or obsession, as seems the case for Stenlund - is not necessarily equally worthwhile simply out of its value to you personally.

For example, I would place playing Anarchy Online, or any other MMORPG, well below, say, reading classically-accepted literature like Faulkner, Thomas (not Tom) Wolfe or Cormac McCarthy. Ditto for the rest of the "Great Books" canon. Why?

Well, I have this (perhaps naive) idea that true art carries its own rewards, and people who produce amazingly creative works aren't in it for material reward. That's one reason so many artists die unappreciated (e.g. van Gogh, Nietzsche, Emily Dickinson) only to become established posthumously.

Can the same be said for MMORPGs, for television? Absolutely not. Generally the products of popular culture are made to turn a profit for someone or some business - not to stimulate, to excite, to inspire, to last, as is the case with transcendent art.

Same goes, to a potentially lesser extent, for cinema and popular music. And notice it's rarely the blockbuster or the smash hit that achieves valuable cultural immortality. Where are the Beatles and the Velvet Underground and the Antonionis and the Kurosawas of today?

It's still possible, it seems, for great directors to make great movies... but how often are they paying for it themselves? Why do actors join Woody Allen films for no money?

And perhaps there are musicians who could change the world - but they probably wouldn't get a record deal. Look at the trouble Wilco had just publishing Yankee Hotel Foxtrot. Radiohead is the only band I can think of offhand right now that still seems to want to make art after reaching popular acclaim.

Our ministers of culture are not interested in art. They want hits.

To speak in very general terms (of course, there are exceptions), popular cultural products are generally crap. Which is more beneficial spiritually, watching Real World or reading Jude the Obscure? The denigration of pop culture is especially pervasive because it's designed to mesmerize, to trap and distract you. It's no accident some parents treat the TV as a babysitter, and some kids treat it as their best friend - that's the aim of its cultural products and their advertisers.

Producing one's own art can, of course, confer similar to or greater benefits than absorbing someone else's. And I'm not suggesting that we need to rip the cable TV out and spend time exclusively with dead trees. But McLuhan was right to say that the "electric culture" is a paradigm shift from all that has come before in terms of attention, of culture, of intelligence, of moral and spiritual value.

And I strongly question the relativist outlook that "you can learn from just about any activity, even watching TV." Perhaps if you're watching PBS exclusively, and even then you'd likely be better off doing something else most of the time.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[Big_Breaker]

I if I hadn't already posted... I'd through a point at the parent.

Bandler said some really insightful things.

Many aspects of education could be improved immeasurably by applying video-game / hollywood style techniques for engrossing people. Who else remembers Schoolhouse Rock? I can still sing those songs.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[untaken_name]

While you do make excellent points, I don't believe that the activity's value has any relevance. The question is: should we dictate people's behavior, whether it would be 'better' for them or not? (I'm not referring to dictating behavior with regards to other people. I'm just talking about telling people what they can and cannot do with their own time or money.) I don't believe we should, even if *I* think they would be using their time more positively. I've learned a lot because of TV. I'm not saying I learned it all *on* TV. However, there have been many times I've seen something on TV that encourages me to research. Now, not everyone's going to do that. I apply this to just about anything. You get out of anything (even watching TV) what you put into it. You can learn from TV, or sleep through a symphony or play. If someone can have a truly happy life by playing games, or watching TV, or even listening to crap pop, then I think they have done very well for themselves. Now, they may not be able to comport themselves with dignity at high tea with the Queen, but I doubt they will need to. I imagine that back when books were just starting to become popular, people had the same sorts of arguments against them. "Why, all my Johnny does these days is sit around with a stupid book! He doesn't even participate in the oral tradition anymore! I remember the classics, like Arunamagar the Storyteller....now *that* was worthwhile! How can an inanimate object tell a story like a person can? Kids aren't going to get anywhere with these mindless 'books.'"

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[Razor Blades are Not]

The problem with this argument is that it *is* completely subjective.
You are setting yourself up as a guardian of art - complete with your own definition of what is "good" and what isn't.

Van Gogh ? Or Warhol ? What gives you the right to decide ? Your position is bastion art-wankery at its best.
It astounds me that you use posthumous fame as an argument *for* your position. By protecting the ivory tower of your conservative view, you perpetuate the attitude that locked these artists out of popular acceptance in their own times.

Seurats contemporaries panned his pointilism as being too "scientific", lacking in "soul" and he died without selling a single painting. They were protecting their view of what art was, just as you are.
Warhol, on the other hand, pushed back against the accepted view of what "art" was, thumbed his nose at the establishment and sold much of his works.
Does his success make him less of an artist than Seurat ? He made screen prints of soup cans. Why is his stuff art, and that produced by Campbells merely advertising ? Or don't you think Warhol contributed anything to our culture ?

Perhaps you cleave to the notion that it is the *intentions* of the artist which catapult some form of expression into the realm of art and relegates others to the bargain bin.

So by my intention, this post is a work of art.

Please mod accordingly.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[Tim Browse]

"more constructive" of course is completely subjective

My favourite perspective on this is something John Lennon once said: "Time you enjoyed wasting was not wasted."

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[quintessencesluglord]

Oooh, art snob. My segregated neighborhood is sooo much better than your segregated neighborhood. Free your mind by listening to what I am telling you.

I could make the argument that "high" culture has been dead for quite some time, but maintains a haunted existence by being browbeaten into those who lack the confidence to admit they really like "The Simpsons" more than they like Faulkner. Or I could point out that pop culture is so pervasive because it strikes a common chord with the rest of humanity (which is at least one measure to the worthiness of art).

But that would be too easy. No, let's go for the jugular, the black magic of the ministers of culture: advertising. And the point is: if I can sell you something you don't need for an inflated price with just a few words and a picture, how is that less of an achievement than van Gogh? On its' own terms, pop culture is a more difficult proposition than any museum piece (and begrudgingly envied by those "real" artist).

But is it art (I have the naive idea that excellence in any field, including video games, is Art)?

I strongly suggest you question the relativist outlook that you have as to what is art. Even Shakespeare was writing for the common man.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[Durindana]

Heh...

You forgot "And we liked it!"

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[Durindana]

Bastion art-wankery? Ouch.

but in response: posthumous fame is not my criterion. You're right - I'm being subjective. Ultimately we all must be; I don't deny that. But I do maintain that some choices are of lesser excellence - of course that too is a subjective statement.

Frankly I admire Warhol and I like Seurat, but it's not important to me whether either was commercially accepted, or whether they are alive or dead. McCarthy, whom I mentioned, isn't dead, and neither are (obviously) many other of the greatest living artists.

My point was that none of them (I'm hoping) did what they did out a desire to earn a profit. More specifically, they did/do not cater to a market, give the people what they want... they thumb their collective noses at some establishment, as you say. Ars gratia artis!

Yes, I do believe it is the intentions of the artist - along with, it should go without saying, his/her success at fulfilling those intentions - that makes expression into art.

So which is missing from our posts, intentions or talent? As this is a dead thread, I think we too must go gently, and unmodded, into that dark night.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[Durindana]

High culture is alive and well, and the Simpsons are among its halls. As are creatively excellent ad campaigns, for what that's worth. But honestly, I believe you've hit on a couple of those exceptions that prove the rule. Most of the rest is pap.

My point is that "strikes a common chord with the rest of humanity" is a foolishly idealistic viewpoint to adopt, and a dangerous one. Many of our common chords would be better unstruck - our basest desires and most destructive impulses among them. And usually this manipulation (it's not a random resonance, it's a plucked string) is done crudely and more or less ineffectually - someone posted to another thread about 'Die harder than you've ever died hard before with a vengeance.'

I think that about sums up the level of pop discourse; just insert meaningless sex or drugs for violence. (Not that sex or drugs are inherently bad.)

Art is not exclusively an uplifting object - it can be a tool, a weapon, as well as a teacher and friend. It is not always uplifting, or valuable, or well-meaning. But it requires excellence to be art.

Art can be evil - and as you say, the manipulation of crowds is one of those applications. There is dangerous music (no, not Black Sabbath backwards or 'Louie Louie' sped up; I'm talking about mindless hatred and destructive violence) and dangerous literature (Celine comes to mind). And there is artistic excellence employed to sometimes-ill purposes - like great advertising.

At this point I think the words 'genius' or 'arete' may be more appropriate than 'art', but the idea is the same. Selling is a psychological challenge, as are mesmerizing and deceiving - all those things that pop culture does best. And I don't believe that they're good for you, especially when they are accomplished with excellence/genius.

If the Pied Piper plays a better tune, should we necessarily follow?

Video games can transcent "pop" into art, and often (used to) do so. I don't think AO is very good, but that doesn't matter here. Because the creation of the game, and its world, isn't the same as the mindless, repetitious occupation of that world. Whether the game is art or not, the player is not creating art - unless (a la Shadowbane) he figures out a way to change the terms, e.g. sending everyone to the bottom of the ocean. I'm completely serious - an accomplishment like that may be evil, it may be destructive, but I admire it for its excellence in design and execution and effect.

In sum: I'm not making a blanket statement about "art," and claiming simplistically "art good, pop bad." Art, work of excellence whether for good or evil, can be good and bad. Warhol, for example, was not an example of "pop culture." He was skewering pop culture and multiplying/degrading its icons of safety and convention. He was, like all artists, an inhabitant of "high culture." Pop, real pop culture, is worthless and designed that way. It doesn't deserve the adjectives 'good' and 'evil,' and it generally isn't worth bothering with.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[lamp540]

That's not entirely true. I personally know two different people who survived by selling everquest and AO items on ebay for real world CASH because they had high level characters... He's just not thinking enough.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[sludg-o]

Take a *deep* breath, *relax*, and *pull* the *stick* our of your *asterisk*.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[Anonymous Coward]

A lvl 200 character is worth $2.00? Or were you including tax?

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[Anonymous Coward]

The difference is that I'm paying for your computer, internet, gaming subscription, food, rent, and power. I'm not too fond of paying for your PhD, either. Your freedom to live the way you want to should stop somewhere around the point it deprives me of property.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[Anonymous Coward]

"clasically-accepted" means so much more than popularly accepted.

Nietszche and Dickinson aren't that great. They're just popular with a different (smaller) set.

The Beatles were a marketing ploy. So was the Velvet Underground. Star Wars was as much a work of art as Seven Samurai. Actually, some of the best art is unintentional, amateur, and defined by it's cultural significance. The Beatles falls into this same category along with Star Wars.

Actors join Woody Allen films for free because they're already rich, and they know doing so makes them richer.

Elite cultures generally produce worse crap than popular cultures. Take Jude the Obscure for example.

I like Radiohead too, but their latest is pure marketing drivel... Just for a different market. I heard a DJ call the the yeah yeah yeahs "critical darlings" the other day. And he meant it as a compliment.

PBS is nothing but a political organ. There's nothing to learn there except party slogans.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[Anonymous Coward]

Matt Groenig went to Evergreen State and you bought an Apple computer because Steve Jobs is gay. You haven't made any concession.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[untaken_name]

The difference is that I'm paying for your computer, internet, gaming subscription, food, rent, and power. I'm not too fond of paying for your PhD, either. Your freedom to live the way you want to should stop somewhere around the point it deprives me of property.

You aren't paying for my anything. :) Although I would be happy to offer my consulting services to you. My rates aren't very reasonable, but I can make a mean gimlet....
I think you missed the part where I said 'if they can afford it.' I don't think anywhere in any of my posts have I advocated a welfare state. If someone is on welfare or other public assistance, then they are not free to spend their time as they wish; in theory, at least. No, I specifically inserted the 'if they can afford it' part as a caveat to my position. If someone is sponging off the government, they shouldn't be able to afford a good computer, fast connection, and AO subscription fee anyway. If they're sponging off friends, parents, etc, then it's up to those providing the cash to set the rules.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[geekoid]

Just becuae youy don't agree, doesn't men you know whats best for you.

Thats the thing with addicts, there certian its best for them and that they are making there own choices when its the addiction speaking, as it were.

Thats why there our intervention form loved one.

"How is a person playing a ton of games any different from people that read 30+ books a month?"
The gamers spends less money ;)

There not, and they are harming themselves, which is fine all the way up to the point where it has a detrimenetal effect on society. Then its everybodies business.
Not a lot to learn in an mmorpg, that applies outside the MMorpg. I would say there is MORE of an opportunity to learn with TV.

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[The_dev0]

Hmm... off the top of my head....

Three is a magic number.
Yes it is, it's a magic number.
Somewhere in the ancient, mystic trinity
You get three as a magic number.
The past and the present and the future,
Faith and hope and charity,
The heart and the brain and the body
Give you three.
That's a magic number.

It takes three legs to make a tripod or to make a table stand.
It takes three wheels to make a vehicle called a tricycle.
Every triangle has three corners,
Every triangle has three sides,
No more, no less,
You don't have to guess,
When it's three you can see it's a magic number.

A man and a woman had a little baby
Yes, they did,
They had three in the family.
That's a magic number.

Then it's into the three times tables. Man, you are sooo right. I'm 27 and hadn't even THOUGHT about that old Bob Dorough song from Schoolhouse Rock song since I was a kid, and I reckon I still know it pretty well. It's amazing what you can learn/remember with the right combination of education and entertainment. I've gotta go find my old cassette of this now, you lovely bastard! Thanks!

Re:A lvl 200 character...

[Razor Blades are Not]

OK.
I wonder then, what are your criteria for excellence ? What consitutes talent ? What makes art 'Art' ?
I challenge your assertion that no great artist in history produced their great works out of a desire to earn a living. Mozart and Da Vinci were both court-sponsored. They lived pretty well for their times, and made certainly enough money to put "artist" as their primary income on their tax returns (as it were).

Just because some of famous artists (Van Gogh, Seurat etc) died penniless doesn't mean that others didn't gain economic rewards. Nor does it mean that the ones who failed to make money weren't trying to.

I guess one might argue, "if they were so good why didn't they just produce something that was popular in order to make that money".. and this is where your argument picks up speed. Why didn't they ? Was it because they also felt that their "art" was more important than its contemporary acceptance?
But how many other people have felt that same thing about their products, and have been completely wrong ?

I guess what I'm saying is - it is the judgement of the culture, throughout history, which gives importance to an artists works.. the effect that the artist has on future artists.
If someone dies penniless, having never sold a single painting or song, and derided by his peers.. if he remains languishing in obscurity for eternity, were his works of equal, greater, or lesser artistic worth than those whose works were recognized as influential on other artists, either contemporary or future? Is there some universal, absolute standard by which "Art" is measured ? Is it mere execution of form ? Mastery of skill with pen or brush? Would it help if he gave up his day job to pursue his dream ? Even if he sucked at it ?

I would argue that it has nothing to do with the artists intention to be either economically viable or self-aggrandizing. Instead, the worth of art is based on what *others* get out of it. If someone's body of works has influenced others, then it is art. But that's just my feelings on the matter. It means that beauty is still in the eye of the beholder, and not in the desire of the painter, nor the pocket of the buyer.

And on an off-topic aside - if one takes the DMCA to it's logical conclusion, and there can be no more art under this definition :)

Profile of a hardcore gamer

[somethingwicked]

Well, lets see-

Shaggy, badly cut hair
Probably has a large nose or some other non-appealing to the opposite sex feature
A double chin from too much Mountain Dew and Pizza and inactivity
A giant pot belly from the same
Sagging shoulders from poor posture

OH, wait, this is a PERSONALITY profile???

Wow, that's going to be even scarier than the above image

Re:The geek in me thinks...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, because when you aren't doing well financially, the best way to turn that around is to spend all your time and energy in a fantasy world (that you have to pay for).

I too am a hardcore gamer

[CrazyJim0]

I have a celebrity status, a CS degree, and I'm working on my own MMORPG since no one is hiring revolutionary computer software developers:

http://delvedesigns.com/websites/clancrazy/index 2. html

I think I run the same plight. I live too far from society(on a farm, in a coal mine town, by the economically depressed city of Pittsburgh). I have two mom and pop stores within 8 miles of where I live. There is nothing to do here other that play and program video games, so its much like a religion to me.

Re:I too am a hardcore gamer

[Fred IV]

I don't really understand the "too far from society" bit in the original article or in your comment.

Couldn't you move? I've been near broke and always found a way to go someplace else if that's what it took to get a better job/life/whatever.

Unless it is just an excuse...because it seems like taking a few weeks to move would be more rewarding than spending hundreds of hours creating a substitute for living and interacting with other people.

Re:I too am a hardcore gamer

[Anonymous Coward]

How high was your GPA? I mean, CMU is the best CS school, so shouldn't you be able to get a job with a decent GPA?

Re:I too am a hardcore gamer

[CrazyJim0]

Yah I did only have a 2.5 GPA... Most of my teachers graded unfairly, but its funny too. When I expected a B, I'd get a D... When I expected a D, I'd get a B.

My problem in school was that I didn't feel I needed to do homework on something I've already developed on my own time. Also I lived 2 hours from school, so if I left my schoolwork at home, then I was fucked. If I had a wealthy family that could have afforded me to stay on campus, I'm sure my GPA woulda been better. I didn't concern myself with GPA, but focused more on actually getting the concepts. Towards the end of my degree, I spoke with the Dean, and he talked to me about the importance of just getting the grades over learning, so I caved in to that concept later.

Re:I too am a hardcore gamer

[BiteMeFanboy]

No you didn't. You're a compulsive liar, with little to no knowlege of ANY field in CompSci. Especially not AI.

Re:I too am a hardcore gamer

[Anonymous Coward]

That's kind of weird about the grades. Were you in SCS? I'm concerning myself with learning the material cause I figure the good grades will follow if I learn it well enough. I only have done one year though and I don't have enough knowledge to start doing things like writing my own games (or even how to do GUI programs outside of Java (which is the best language I know cause they used it in 15-111 / 211)).

Re:I too am a hardcore gamer

[Anonymous Coward]

well he links to his andrew space somewhere on his site and I fingered his account so I'm pretty sure he is telling the truth

Re:I too am a hardcore gamer

[BiteMeFanboy]

Nice try. Read your (oh wow I mean his) site. He's completely clueless.

Re:I too am a hardcore gamer

[Anonymous Coward]

eh, I posted the parent comment and I'm not him. if you have an andrew account (lots of the big univs have them) finger his name and it lists him. I don't know anything about AI yet so I don't have grounds to judge his knowledge. of course, I don't know if he actually majored in cs.

Re:I too am a hardcore gamer

[Anonymous Coward]

do you have plans of how to make money from the MMORPG? i.e. salary level money? it seems like a project that would take forever to do, and if that were true then why not work on a smaller project that can be done in a short time frame?

Re:I too am a hardcore gamer

[reflective recursion]

I find it a bit hard to believe you went to CMU. From your web page:

And BTW: Copyright dibs on idea: Take cable or RCA cable from VCR/DVD/TV, plug it into this computer card, and then stream video onto the internet using software. Too bad I don't know hardware or I'd make it.

First, you don't have the slightest clue about the difference between copyrights and patents. This is important in the software industry. Next, you don't seem to realize that what you "invented" is probably a decade or two old. I have all that is needed for this "invention" of yours with Linux and my brooktree-based capture card. And this was last year.

I have a friend who is much like you. He talks plenty, but in the end he gets nothing done. Every time I meet with him he talks about his new "inventions." Some days I just want to stick him in front of Google or NEC SiteCeer and say "Look here pal, you didn't invent shit!"

You desperately need focus. Find a goal you can work towards and accomplish and focus on that. Learn everything you know about job placement. Learn about networking (not the computer kind). Find a company you are interested in and then meet someone who works there. Resumes aren't the only way to get a job (and probably the most difficult, at that).

The little things called "goals" that those strange high school teachers talked about all the time truely do come in handy for getting anywhere in life. Just don't make every little thing you think about a goal.

Re:I too am a hardcore gamer

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you should try comedy. Your website is a fucking comedy goldmine.

http://delvedesigns.com/websites/clancrazy/resum e/ ideas.html

LOL LAUGH RIOT A++++++++++++ WOULD READ AGAIN

Re:I too am a hardcore gamer

[JamesCronus]

i agree! if that collection of pages is what he thinks passes for some kind of resume then christ i'm not supriced that no one wants to have him work for them. idiot is possibly the only word i can come up with to describe him

Support

[darthtuttle]

I always wondered why the game creators don't support people like this more often. I don't imagine that they would have to pay him a lot. Him and others obviously help keep people interested in the game, and he'd have more time to devote to it. Give him responsibility within his profession or class and some duties to perform, the goal of which would be to keep people playing. People like him obviously play an important part in the game.

Re:Support

[redtail1]

That's a great point. AOL used to do something similar in their online gaming forums way back when. Now it may not be necessary.

Re:Support

[00klaDM0k]

They do that in poker rooms, both online and B&M. It's called being a prop or a shill, depending on whether you are bankrolled by the house(shill) or play with your own money(prop). Basically, you are responsible for getting games started and keeping games going and get paid an hourly rate for doing so. The very least Funcom could do is give him a lifetime subscription to AO.

Re:Support

[Simehiri]

Well, FunCom (Anarchy Online's creators) do have a program called ARK (Advisors of Rubi-Ka) that earn gamers free subscriptions through a few hours of service per week. Such services involve in-game tech support, customer service, greeting and helping new players, coordinating and running events and stories, etc. I'm sure Thedeacon is well aware of the ARK program, but probably just would rather do what he does on his own time. As far as FunCom putting forth an effort to keep guys like Thedeacon playing, the best thing they can do is add content and fix the gameplay problems that such players address. That would be much more valuable to Thedeacon and his ilk than a free subscription. I hope that answered your question.

Re:Support

[lysium]

Profit generation has something to do with it. Not necessarily straight greed, mind you, but more like a general ignorance of that kind of public community effort. MUSHes, MUDs, and the like are all designed to give dedicated players a greater say in the administration and direction of the worlds they frequent. In those environments, everything (including arguements) are done out of love for the world. In Everquest and AO and the like, it's all about money.

Somehow, that simple fact alters things. They haven't quite figured out how to do it yet....

----------

Re:Support

[RubberChainsaw]

Oooh, good question. Its so rarely that I am qualified to respond to a post on /. I'm a game designer, I've been part of several online projects, currently working on this one. I know its not a huge title and its pretty old, but I hope it lends some credibility to my post.

Firstly there is the problem of employment. I'm sure other posters have mentioned it, but ULtima Online had a program where players would volunteer to guide people and handle some basic customer service. This was a pretty typical program that was in place in other persistant commerical multiplayer games at the time, such as EverQuest or GemStone3. EA was eventually sued by the people who were a part of that program. They claimed they were being treated as employees and should get employee benefits. When this happened, the player volunteer program in my game at the time was curtailed. Nobody wants to have to defend a lawsuit. Lawyers are too damn expensive!
I believe AOL had a similar suit filed agaist them by their volunteers.

Aside from legal issues, its very risky to give players any enhanced power or responsibility within the game world. MMOG Players are often not very nice people. These games bring out the worst in people. I know, I see the support emails about friends stealing items, passwords, etc. I read the chatlogs filled with hateful, vicious comments. Upset or angry players will write the most obscene emails they can, saying how much they hate the game and they'll never play it again, only to turn around a few days later and plead to get their account and characters back.

In short, players are often very unpredictable. Even the most seemingly well-mannered people will have their moments (we all do, its human nature). They could disagree with a new item or skill and feel insulted that they "weren't listened to", "being ignored", etc. Or worse, there could be outside issues affecting the players life, and they have a breakdown within the game. When things like this happen it will hurt business, give a bad image of the game, and scare away new players (which are the most important ones). EverQuest might not have a problem absorbing it, being that they have close to half a million accounts. But as the number of accounts decreases, these outbursts have a more potent effect.

Then compare the problems to the potential benefits, which are reletively small. Some active characters to enhance the roleplaying atmosphere of a roleplaying game are certainly good things to have.. but data from my games has shown that the impact of feature characters isn't signifigant. Players mostly want new items, new things to play with, and new areas (in that order). And as the population of a game scales up, so must the number of active feature characters.. adding more risk and potential problems. As well as organizational problems. Each of these players will have their own ideas on how the game world should develop. It takes some pretty tight reigns and a watchful eye to make sure that they aren't taking things in a direction you don't want to go. That monitoring takes resources which most teams just don't have. Maintaining an online games takes alot of time.. its much worse than any "normal business" project I was a part of. But its fun, most of the time.

I understand the idea. Its an idea that everyone has. In fact it was one of the first things I suggested when I was hired as a designer for my first online game, and I was given this speech then (minus the lawsuit stuff, of course).

In the end, it would be really nice to have the extra hands helping with the game. The risks and resources required do not outweigh the disadvantages.


One thing to note, though, is that the mmog Shadowbane has done something along the lines of what was suggested. They have hired a team to play Feature Characters on their servers. Since they are hired employees

Re:Support

[Teknogeek]

In addition to ARK, FunCom has an AO program called "The Professionals", where they choose two of the most well-known players of each class (usually the most helpful and knowledgeable) and ask them for input on how to balance the various classes.

I'm impressed by how much effort FunCom puts into Anarchy Online's CS personally...it's actually a lot better than most MMOGs I've played. *cough*"I cannot help thee with that."*cough*

Asheron's Call kiled a man... (not really)

[Schezar]

I attend the Rochester Institute of Technology. My freshman year (so long ago -_-), a friend of mine had a room mate, let's call him Loser.

Now, Loser seemed like a nice guy. He was quiet, he used his computer, ate his grub, and generally stayed out of my friend's way. In fact, he never said anything to my friend, or to anyone else as far as we were aware.

You see, Loser played Asheron's Call. All the time. His body would sit there rigid, unmoving, while he leveled. My friend recalls a specific incident where he woke up to find Loser playing, went to several classes, played some D&D with all of us, and returned over 9 hours later to find him still playing the game. We know Loser had been playing the whole time: he was wearing the same towel he'd had on that morning, and the empty plate we assume he'd eaten breakfast off of was still sitting on his lap.

Loser would ignore fire alarms (which at RIT, which adjoins the National Technical Institute for the Deaf, is no small feat). Loser would forget to eat. Loser would rarely go to class, shave, bathe, or move.

The end of the year came, and Loser went home. He kept his computer hooked up and running right up until his parents had moved everything else to the car. I assume it was the first thing he unpacked.

Loser still goes to RIT as far as I can tell. I saw him in the Engineering building once, so I think he's an engineering student.

I never liked Loser. I wonder why...

Cult?

[frankjr]

I wonder if it's possible to establish a cult with an MMORPG? According to factnet.org, pretty much _everything_ could be a cult.

Never thought I'd see this...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's one thing to be yet another online gaming addict written about....but an online gaming addict using AOL?

And you thought SARS and Monkeypox were cause for alarm....

Pervert, Gamer or Perverted Gamer?

[teamhasnoi]

Exactly what does 'hard-core' mean in this case?

Now I'll be hung up on semantics the rest of the day.

What do you mean, the 'copy machine' is out of 'toner', and you want me to 'fill' it?

Telling quote from the article

[writertype]

If a game is a rigidly defined artificial activity that is meant to be completed, or won, then products like Anarchy Online are in many ways not really games at all. Rather, they are full-fledged virtual sandboxes. Instead of castles, players build lives.

He should try this in "Real Life". There's money, power, romance, derring-do... It's a rush.

Re:Telling quote from the article

[kin_korn_karn]

Easy for you to say. When you're a gamer like this guy, you reach a point where social skills drop off that this is nearly impossible to do without extensive drug therapy and counseling. You get stuck in a negative feedback loop because people don't want to help out the weird guy that prefers his computer games, and they aren't smart enough to recognize when he wants out of that life. People write you off, so you have to get out of town and reinvent yourself.

Re:Telling quote from the article

[Anonymous Coward]

He should try this in "Real Life". There's money, power, romance, derring-do... It's a rush.

and greed, and hate, and lust and murder... and its for real.!

Re:Telling quote from the article

[NDPTAL85]

You sound like you speak from personal experience.

Re:Telling quote from the article

[Ubergrendle]

The problem with "Real Life" is that the penalty phase for a high frag count is enormous -- in some states the penalty is permanent account deletion!

Re:Telling quote from the article

[fuzzybunny]

Yes, agreed. However, throwing hand grenades at people in "real life" tends to be considered a bit of a faux-pas in many less-enlightened social circles.

That's not, of course, meant to be judgmental, as I've found that throwing hand grenades at people can be a very productive form of conflict resolution; I'm just saying that the common hordes one encounters during the day may not necessarily be capable of understanding the enlightened intellect of the gamer.

Why, just think about it, at some point there will be real money to be made in the sort of skills learned during online gameplay. "I'm sorry, sir, but you can't smoke here." "UNLEASH PLASMA HELL ON THE INFIDEL, MR. SULU." *ZOT* "there, now who's smoking here..."

Potentially, the following mail from my some root-type person from my college computer organization sums up nicely what all the barbarians are thinking:

I hate to offend any die-hard mudders in the bod (actually, I revel in the
opportunity to do so....), but the first letter in that series, the one that
said people should try to convice the evil sysadmin (does he know rob?) to
allow the mud (muck? schmuck?) to stay up by touting, and I quote:

"...worse ways to use up disk space, advantages of learning to program,
friendships, and the safe nature of the MUD program."

OH MY GOD!! I SEE THE ERROR OF OUR WAYS NOW! SO TRUE, SO BLINDINGLY TRUE!
How could we have been so callous?! We didn't even think of the worse ways
dburr could have (ab)used disk space and memory! How could we have been so
stupid?? All the time, we were thinking petty things like "this will screw
up the machine it's running on and slow down network connections for the
whole cluster to a crawl," while ignoring the great programming experience
that dburr was gaining. Alas! Why didn't we think about the great friend-
ships that would have developed! Just think, because of our cruelty, some
people might not be able to form the deep bonds which are inevitable when
"Mr. Sticky" throws a grenade at "The Crimson Warlord"! And, gosh, it's
not as if a MUD program isn't _safe_. When was the last time you heard your
mother say "Oh, sure, a MUD's all fun and games until SOMEONE LOSES AN EYE!"
Oh, woe is us, woe is us.

Excuse me while I go flog myself in shame.

Re:Telling quote from the article

[kin_korn_karn]

I do speak from personal experience. I grew up on a farm on top of a hill in eastern Kentucky. All the people around me were redneck assholes, the only knowledge you're allowed to possess there without being beaten is how to rebuild an engine and how to get your sister to hold still (for the trolls: no, I didn't bang my sister, and I didn't try to). The closest town had 1200 people. The closest semi-major city was Columbus OH.

I couldn't get a connection to an ISP higher than 14.4 due to the shitty phone lines so I didn't do much real-time online gaming, and it was really before the time that MMORPGs came online. Right when I moved was when Evercrack showed up. I did a lot of IRC when the net came to the area, and before that I did a lot of BBSing and ran a BBS.

I got out, got a life (sort of, I'm still a programmer), I'm getting married in the fall, and everything is generally getting better. However, I look back on when I was a shut-in gamer and I don't regret that time because it was all I had then. Gaming was an escape from that miserable shithole, and most of the other people I knew were drunk or stoned or on harder shit every night to dull the misery. Gaming is bad for socialization but it doesn't directly kill you or get you a criminal record, and through online gaming and interaction I learned that I had options other than rotting on that hill like the other people around me.

As long as you know when to stop, it's not a bad thing.

Re:Telling quote from the article

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't have to be a hard-core gamer. Ever since the magazine shut down, I don't have any Life.

Re:Telling quote from the article

[analog_line]

There's money, power, romance, derring-do...

My friend, you need to stop watching those movies. You're losing your grip on reality here. Think we may have to perform an intervention here.

Re:Telling quote from the article

[Tackhead]

> He should try this in "Real Life". There's money, power, romance, derring-do... It's a rush.

No thanks. It's as boring as the Sims, but it's even slower, and the speed-up key can only be used once a day, and it only works at night, when you're at home trying to game, rather than you just pusshing fast-forward during the day when nobody's home!

And the list of defects goes on. Like, there's no fucking save/restore feature either! Set up a menage-a-trois with your boss' wife and just one lousy goat, and you might as well pull out the old .45 and start again.

No way, man, "RL" is teh sux0r. I wouldn't even warez it.

Re:Telling quote from the article

[jvalenzu]

You call everyone around you in your home town redneck assholes and you wonder why they don't want to socialize with you? Try being nicer to people.

Re:Telling quote from the article

[MikeFM]

The hard part of real life is that there are way to many rules that most of us won't break. Online it's okay to kill, steal, lie, cheat, etc where in real life most of us are forbidden such behaviors by the morals we've been raised with. Even worse we tend to follow laws which exist largely to keep the poor from becoming middle class and the middle class from becoming rich. The risk of breaking our own code of conduct or being punished is enough to keep most people from getting ahead in real life.

Re:Telling quote from the article

[ronfar]

It seems to me that I see a pattern developing though. When I played MUCKs a lot it was because I had moved to a horrible, hateful little town in Florida. This was a bit jarring for me because I had moved from an urban part of New Jersey, with easy train access to New York City, to a sleepy little retirement hellhole in Southwest Florida. Looking back, I should probably seen if I could have found someplace to live in New Jersey even on my relatively low salary. (However, that would have meant missing out on getting my second college degree in Computer Science.)

I was a college graduate (B.A. in English), but I was working at a sucession of awful, low paying retail jobs. More importantly, while the retail jobs I had been getting in NJ were low paying at least they were a lot of fun. The ones in Florida were like being in some kind of Hell where you were tormented by low class people. I didn't go back to college right away, because I couldn't believe there were no decent jobs around for a college graduate, even in English.

Well, at somepoint my parents got a new computer with Internet access, and that computer became my new friend (though I didn't leave old friends like my and my brother's video game systems completely behind. I can still remember coming home from a long day at K-Mart and playing Final Fantasy III on my brother's Super Nintendo. The simple joys of a pointless life.). Soon we got Internet, and I spend a ton of time on it. Eventually, I started MUCKing.

Sure it took over my life, but at that point my life was a hopeless morass from which there was no escape. Things didn't improve until I moved into a dorm in a bigger city. Then everything got so much better and I eventually gave up MUCKing for real life pursuits.

Besides, I think it was helpful. I hadn't spent that much time on a computer since I was a young boy with an Atari 800, and I think it finally gave me the impetus to firmly decide to go back to school and get my CS degree. That improved my life immesurably, as I was able to get a real job that paid well, and got me out from being dependant on Mom and Dad.

Re:Telling quote from the article

[kin_korn_karn]

they chose to be assholes. I chose to react to it by being one back to them. Trust me, being nice doesn't work when they're too bigoted against people that aren't rednecks to do more than laugh in your face when you speak to them.

Re:Telling quote from the article

[Quixadhal]

"He should try this in "Real Life". There's money, power, romance, derring-do... It's a rush."

Ok, so what's the "Real-Life" equivalent LEGAL activity that corresponds to running around killing goblins? Most fantasy-based MMPORPG's allow the brand-new character to wander in off the street and immediately be able to go find something they can kill and loot to imporve their position.

In this "Real-Life" place, you have to either already have resources, or have the training needed to someone in an authority position will allow you to do it. If the game worked this way, you'd create your character and then have to immediately convince some guild to let you join before you could do anything.

In the US, we have freedom of CHOICE. That means you may freely WANT to do something, but it doesn't imply that you will be able to do it. You have to meet whatever the pre-requisites are, and that usually means you (a) come from a wealthy background, (b) get lucky, or (c) do something you don't want to do long enough to make (a) or (b) happen.

Re:Telling quote from the article

[aminorex]

> In the US, we have freedom of CHOICE.

That's like saying "in MY country we OBEY
the laws of THERMODYNAMICS".

In "Real-Life", you can get away with a lot
more than in some game, because in "Real-Life"
THERE ARE NO RULES. Until you die anyhow.

Re:Telling quote from the article

[Slime-dogg]

He should try this in "Real Life". There's money, power, romance, derring-do... It's a rush.

Hah. The only problem is that real life doesn't have a "Up-Up-Down-Down-Right-Left-Right-Left-B-A-Start" combination so you never run out of lives. People have searched for it for centuries, but one fact remains true: You only have one, and once it's gone... that's it.

Trying to go out and kill the evil corporations with weapons will undoubtedly get you killed. Just like players in the game actually do get killed. In real life, however, you don't get a convenient respawn.

Re:Telling quote from the article

[writertype]

Ok, so what's the "Real-Life" equivalent LEGAL activity that corresponds to running around killing goblins?

So pretend the squirrel outside your bedroom window is growling at you and waving a dagger, and shoot it with a BB gun.

Re:Telling quote from the article

[Anonymous Coward]

"Even worse we tend to follow laws which exist largely to keep the poor from becoming middle class and the middle class from becoming rich."

Dude what crap are you spouting? Most of the laws make it possable for people to move up in the world or at least keep the mega rich from buying and trading everyone else like in those times before laws. Say the Dark ages and all the wonderful freedom in no laws. If you want to know about laws that keep people down you go check up on the class system in india.

Because it is computers it is wierd.

[will_die]

If they guy just sat in a chair, drank beer, and watched sports during the time he plays the game, he would be considered normal.
Throw in that he players games on his computer and he is considered wierd.

Re:Because it is computers it is wierd.

[tomstdenis]

I think the stigma is that people get a little "too" attached to their games [specially MP and MMORPGZTDJDJK whatever...] games.

It's all about balance. I for example, have six *different* games installed at the moment and I play all of them regularly in short periods [e.g. no more than 10 mins at a time].

Oh, and btw, society [well western anyways] does look down upon beer guzzling tv watchers. They're called "fat lazy couch potatos".

Tom

Re:Because it is computers it is wierd.

[Anonymous Coward]

This is so true. I hardly ever watch TV, of any kind. And this makes me some kind of social misfit. The people at work can't think of anything to say unless it starts with " Did you see CSI last night" It's sad and confusing.. why is TV which is less social more aceptable...???

Re:Because it is computers it is wierd.

[jared_hanson]

Wow, I just checked, and I have six games too: FreeCell, Hearts, Minesweeper, Pinball, Solitare, and Spider Solitare.

I usually play each in intervals shorter than ten minutes as well. Can it be coincidence?

Re:Because it is computers it is wierd.

[spencerogden]

Very true, but some one who sat around watching sports and drinking beers 7 hours a day while he was broke would also be called a deadbeat.

Re:Because it is computers it is wierd.

[zhrike]

If they guy just sat in a chair, drank beer, and watched sports during the time he plays the game, he would be considered normal.

I think he would be considered an alchoholic.
40 hours of drinking a week? That's a lot.

But it is true that gamers get a bum rap. I'd rather play Unreal for a few hours than watch the boob tube for that same amount of time, but there is a stigma attached to that. I'd rather be interacting with _something_ rather than sitting silent and still, mouth agape.

Interrogation

[nounderscores]

Agent Smith: As you can see, we've had our eye on you for some time now, Mr. Stenlund. It seems that you've been living two lives. In one life, you're Richard L. Stenlund, a struggling, frustrated 27-year-old computer repairman trapped in a town too far from big cities where big things happen, trapped in a hand-to-mouth existence, trapped in a mean little culture of cheap thrills and fast-food television. The other life is lived at the distant end of a strife-torn galaxy, where you are a genetically engineered mutant called Thedeacon and are guilty of virtually every soul-light dimming crime we have a law for. One of these lives has a future, and one of them does not. I'm going to be as forthcoming as I can be, Mr. Stenlund. You're here because we need your help. We know that you've been contacted by a certain individual, a man who calls himself Morpheus. Now whatever you think you know about this man is irrelevant. He is considered by many authorities to be the most dangerous man alive. My colleagues believe that I am wasting my time with you but I believe that you wish to do the right thing. We're willing to wipe the slate clean, give you a fresh start and all that we're asking in return is your cooperation in bringing a known terrorist to justice.

_________________________________
The Spiders are Coming. Next episode June 13th 2003

Re:Interrogation

[kmac06]

Did you notice in Agent Smith's speech in the Matrix, he didn't once lie? Interesting way to listen to the speech.

Re:Interrogation

[aminorex]

well, duh. he's the good guy. good guys don't lie.

I don't get it

[Samus]

I don't get it this guy is spending 7 hours a day diverting himself playing a game. Then he turns around says his life sucks and he has no money. If he spent that 7 hours a day in the real world improving himself he just might make a decent living and not live life hand to mouth. Though I can't say I'm terribly impressed with the guy. He ran a internet pc store and failed miserably then decides to flee reality. Unfortunately for him reality is catching up and now he decides he should flee to Las Vegas. He'll wind up in the same situation he is in now just a different city. And you know what? He'll probably still be playing AO when he should be improving his situation.
Call this flamebait if you want its just what I have seen time and time again.

Re:I don't get it

[pdbogen]

Simply put, it's not always as easy as "[spending] 7 hours a day in the real world improving [your]self".

Re:I don't get it

[Anonymous Coward]

it's always the persons fault.. isn't it?

exactly when did you stop being open minded.?

Look a little closer, you'll see the light.

Re:I don't get it

[Anonymous Coward]

Call this flamebait if you want its just what I have seen time and time again.

Yep, all those fuckers on welfare blaming other people for their situation and making me pay rediculous taxes to support their lazy asses.

Re:I don't get it

[some damn guy]

Not to qibble, but it's a little unfair to say that the reason we pay rediculous taxes is so we can support people on welfare. Its a drop in the bucket compared to defense and social security/medicare, among other things.

Re:I don't get it

[coldtone]

The thing I donâ(TM)t get is how close MMOG are to reality. How you get ahead in a MMOG is very similar to how you get ahead in life.

Jump in! Give it a shot.

Every MMOG Iâ(TM)ve played (EQ, AO, SB, AC) starts of with frustration. Your lost, you donâ(TM)t know anyone. You donâ(TM)t understand you characters capabilities. No one want to talk to you. And you generally end up dying within the first few minutes.

Every time Iâ(TM)ve tried something new, (Move to a new town, new Job, school, new volunteer somewhere.) I experience this. Itâ(TM)s very frustrating and makes me feel like giving up.

But in both cases itâ(TM)s just a matter of sticking to it, and learning you way. Feel the place out, and discover it for yourself.

Learning new skills takes time. Study hard! Pay attention!

In a little while you have the basics of the game down. You know where things are and you are getting comfortable with your environment. But now you want to progress, you want to level up. So you search the web, try stuff out, watch other people play. Slowly you begin to learn just how this thing is played. And you get better at it.

Speak up!

Youâ(TM)ll never make any friends unless you talk to people! Say Something! Give it a shot!

Dedication Pays off.

After many hours your skills will be honed to the point that they become reflex. What was once impossible is now childâ(TM)s play. But this only happens after many, many hours.

Take risks!

You have to always keep pushing yourself to new limits. When you take risks you grow. You gain abilities you never thought you had. Once youâ(TM)ve had a taste of this you never turn back.

In short if you apply yourself the same way to RL as some do in MMOGâ(TM)s you will greatly exceed your potential. And at the end of that day have something far more valuable then a level 200 character. It could be a great job, the ability to play a new sport, a hot girlfriend. Really whatever you want if you put in the time.

You have gotten better at posting!!! (52)

Re:I don't get it

[C0LDFusion]

Yeah, but Defense creates jobs for those who've bothered to get a college degree and social security/medicare keeps your granny from becoming Soylent Green.

That's just plain dumb.

[jonfromspace]

That's like saying the only diference between Pot and crack cocain is how fucked up it gets you.

Addiction to gaming AND telivision are real. You really belive that a person can not become addicted to T.V.? C'mon... a stimulus is a stimulus.

That being said, I bet it is a lot easier to go cold turkey with the T.V. than the smack.

But, I digress...

Re:That's just plain dumb.

[Cromac]

The difference between addiction to online games and TV is something like the difference between addition to stimulants or depressants. Online games are a stimulant, they're interactive make people think at least some, TV is a depressant, it numbs the mind allowing people to shut down and go on cruise control.

Re:That's just plain dumb.

[Anonymous Coward]

Online games are monotonous and repetitive, yet demand your attention. That prevents you from thinking. TV presents you with ideas and allows you to accept or reject them. That is the essense of thinking. What you are thinking about may not be worthwhile, however.

Re:That's just plain dumb.

[sporty]

Erg.. stop using analogies to defend ideas. It doesn't always .. map fully.

TV and Games don't have a direct biological feed back like drugs do.

Perhaps you can say the diff between TV and Games are like, reading a novel and a choose-your-own adventure book?

I dunno.

Re:That's just plain dumb.

[Omestes]

"TV and Games don't have a direct biological feed back like drugs do."

This is not true. Any form of stimulous that contains some form of pleasure has a biological feedback element. This is the basis of operant conditioning (behind all the psycho-mumbo-jumbo), if you get possitive stimulous from ANYTHING it will release natural endorphins and opiates into your brain, opiates and endorphins are addictive in the classical (and hence your sense of the word) sense. The stimulous becomes linked to the chemical release of addictive substances, and you want more, and are more likely to do the same activity again, be it sex, video games, driving fast, sky diving, jogging, beating you dog, whatnot.

Video games are esspecially bad in this aspect, since you get psychically (not in the bending spoons sense) connected to your characters/avatar, meaning this his/her acheivements have a larger impact on your own feelings. that rush you get when you win that death match isn't just a warm fuzzy, that is your brain spewing forth much opiates/endorphins/dopamines. Same thing for that sense of thrill you get when watching kill . Or that jump you get when the cat jumps out of the closet in the bad horror movie. All of that is CHEMICAL.

Same thing for books, ever stay up 'til 4:30am when you KNOW that you have something to do in 2 hours? Thats not just stupidity, that is little chemicals being released by your brain.

Why do you think that marajuana is addictive? It isn't a latent chemical in the weed, it is the pleasure associated WITH the weed (same for LSD). And with weed, as in video games (espec. MMOs) they are also socially addictive, especially for those who lack a support structure IRL. Hence part of the steriotypical gamer/geek is justified, in that we are freindless dorks, who must seek stimuli outside our enviroment.

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[darthtuttle]

First, not every 12 yr old is a great gamer. I know I've got better skills than most of my friends, but a few of them will blow me out of the water in most any game (GT3 being the exception), but there's always been a group of players who will always blow my doors off in any game I try. There is a skill component. Sure the 12 yr olds can play them, but play them well?

Second, in a MM online game there's a social component.

Third, the value of the game is in it's dificulty. How much more do you have to think to do better in it? (This is a problem I have with Diablo, as it gets harder you just need better items and the ability to draw your opponents away one at a time, but it's my fix...).

Fourth, if you could wipe your ass with one square no matter how messy, someone would interview you.

not all that hord core...

[Raleel]

only 7 hours a day? Geez, when i was mudding in school, I was doing it 16 hours a day.

My brother in law currently plays DAoC 13 hours a day, and has for the last month ;)

oh, wait, he has a wife..and a job...and she's still married to him? Mine breaks out divorce papers after hour 4...

Re:not all that hord core...

[xtermz]

oh, wait, he has a wife..and a job...and she's still married to him? Mine breaks out divorce papers after hour 4...

Some guys just dont get it...

I had a date a few weeks ago with a very, very attractive blonde. Good personality, awesome body, witty, funny, sexy as can be. She was divorced. Why? Her husband became addicted to EverCrack.

It seems to me that people getting addicted to these games have become the majority, rather than the minority that the defenders of the games claim.

And how the hell do you let go of a fine, fine blonde for a game?

Re:not all that hord core...

[Theaetetus]

Possibly, but I doubt that it's the majority that are getting addicted - we just hear about them a lot more. For every person that spends 10 hours a day on EverCrack, there's a hundred people that spend one hour. But that's not a news story.

And how the hell do you let go of a fine, fine blonde for a game?

I don't get it either... Backwards priorities?
I just happen to be lucky that my girl likes gaming too... But we do a lot more other stuff together - hiking, working out, gardening (her idea, not mine), playing pool, etc. I'd game more, simply because I love to, but I like spending time with her even more.

-T

Re:not all that hord core...

[Luminous]

And how the hell do you let go of a fine, fine blonde for a game?

If she is an annoying human being, the choice would be pretty simple.

What if...

[lpret]

What if you could make it more real? Have people's monthly payment go toward a kitty and set up special matches that reward money? Perhaps with a diversified base of 10,000 users (monthly payment of 15 dollars, that's 150,000), and have different levels have their own "fights" with increasing booty -- I think it'd make people want to level higher and also help others. Well, I'm off to go patent that idea ;)

Pretty much says it all:

[Anonymous Coward]

Ms. Werner-Stenlund, who seems alternately befuddled and amused by her husband's other life, put in, "You are a pervert."

Google Link

[Jackazz]

I can't believe no one posted this yet!

Google link to article

so I'm addicted to:

[SHEENmaster]

Air
Caffeine
Coding
Food
Water (w/ caffeine)
UN*X(for the love of caffiene please don't sue!)

Re:so I'm addicted to:

[Anonymous Coward]

----QUOTED FROM GRANDPARENT----
Medically the second and third are used, with the added caveat that it is not an activity or substance normally considered to be necessary for survival (otherwise we are all food, oxygen and sleep addicts).
----QUOTED FROM GRANDPARENT----

Yes. You probably are addicted to caffeine.

Re:so I'm addicted to:

[Surak]

Did you even read the second paragraph of Transient0's post?

Medically the second and third are used, with the added caveat that it is not an activity or substance normally considered to be necessary for survival (otherwise we are all food, oxygen and sleep addicts).

That would *exclude* air, water, food, caffeine, and probably UN*X as well. ;)

Re:so I'm addicted to:

[Networkpro]

UN*X is not necessary for survival, just look at all of the (and I hesitate to use administrator and NT in the same sentance) NT administrators that are paid to point and click through thier comic book world and thus are kept out of the unemployment lines. Hire the handicapped, buy Micro$loth

What does a Level200 whatever convert to...

[CodeHog]

in the real world? Are we suppose to think that because he can do all these great things in a virtual world that he should be admired in reality (or realty for that matter)?

Bladder of Steel?

[DaRat]

9+ hrs in the same spot? His name should have been "Bladder of Steel"!

Or, [shudder] was there a large puddle at his feet?

Re:Bladder of Steel?

[spotteddog]

That's why he wore a towel

Re:Bladder of Steel?

[CaptainCarrot]

What do you think the towel was for?

Re:Asheron's Call kiled a man... (not really)

[Anonymous Coward]

Dude you make it sound like you were shocked that he was like this. Now I live out in Colony Manor and I've never stayed in the dorms, but everytime I have to go the dorms for something all I ever see are kids playing computer games or playing with duct tape.

Counter Strike + Jerking Off = RIT Dorm Resident

from the article

[nounderscores]

They don't get out much. That is partly a result of the couple's dim finances, but also a result of Mr. Stenlund's dim view of humanity. "The more you deal with people, the more you hate people," he said. "It just feels that everybody is so asleep in this world."

[...]

"No money," Ms. Werner-Stenlund recalled. "Nowhere to go. Nothing to do. We were being threatened to be sued left and right, and I think we were both on the verge of swallowing a bottle of pills."

With the walls closing in, the Stenlunds fled to the mall one day in July 2001, just looking to treat themselves to some small gifts. Ms. Werner-Stenlund bought some shirts. Mr. Stenlund bought Anarchy Online.

"I can honestly say that A. O. helped save my life," Mr. Stenlund said, sitting on a bench outside the store where his journey began.

Games that heal. Hmmm I can feel a Dr Phil coming on....

_______________________________________________
The Spiders are Coming. Next episode: July 13, 2003

Re:from the article

[Anonymous Coward]

I play Anarchy Online, and Thedeacon is a dick in game. I'm surprised that an article was written about him rather than a guild leader.

The only reason that his org Storm is so powerful is because it has 503 members who try to level as fast as possible, then they complain when they reach the top level and have nothing to do. Hence the:

For more than a year, Meta-Physicist players have lobbied Funcom to enhance their profession, widely considered the weakest in the game. Frightened by the prospect that Meta-Physicists would continue to be left behind, Thedeacon spent two weeks organizing a protest march, held last weekend.

Welcome to a MMOG, I guess.

Re:from the article

[Simehiri]

Wrong, actually. The Meta-physicist profession has more game breaking mechanics than any other by a large margin. Many professions have their quirks and problems, but they can still function and function according to their profession. Most of the tools metas use have been broken since AO's launch. As far as content though, the class actually peaks at 130. Post 130, the class goes downhill unless the player alters their character to that of a soldier/agent role which then leaves them less bad, but still not good. I'd say that's pretty damn broken. But moreover, it wasn't until two weeks ago that he (after being a level 200 Meta for quite a few months) finally admitted to himself that his class was so messed up past 130, that he had to "sell out" to a non-meta playstyle just to actually function. The profession has been complaining about this ever since the first meta peaked at 130. But it took a charismatic, well-known figure like Thedeacon to rally everyone together and really make the case known. Jayde was a similar figure for Adventurers even though the concerns that he addresses have been around even before I recomended the game to him.

Re:from the article

[Anonymous Coward]

you must have been one of the n00bs begging him for "credz plz" then. Thedeacon is an excellent person and this NY Times article is totally bogus and downright slanderous to him. he has always been a cheerful and pleasant person to talk to. Thedeacon has also done more, and contributed more than any guild leader in the game. period. he is an extremley well respected person in the AO community for his support of people and for his humor. which, that "Protest March" aka. Black Sunday was last sunday (the 8th of this month) and was a huge success, inpart because he was the one who organized it. everyone holds him in such high regard no one else could pull this off. and, btw. i may not be on rk1 (rk2 myself). but i've talked to him on many instances on rk1 and via forums. never once was he rude or "a dick".

Re:from the article

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow, Thanks, Thedeaconsmom. You did a real fine job there.

Re:From the article

[mandolin]

Go out and do something to wake them up. ... Wake the hell up and wake up a neighbor while you're at it.

Sorry, people don't like to be changed. As an example, "Have you let Jesus into your life?"

Re:from the article

[jjhlk]

I didn't see the NY Times article as being slanderous.... did you even read it?

Lines blurring

[redtail1]

The Onion is looking an awful lot like the New York Times lately...

F R E A K !

[Cackmobile]

Come on. I love gaming as much as the next /.er playing quite a bit but I also have a life. I go out and get drunk. I go surfing. I goto the park etc etc.

Get a life!

Re:F R E A K !

[Anonymous Coward]

And you have no more of a life than he does. Get over yourself.

Re:F R E A K !

[Anonymous Coward]

90% of you fucktards have no idea what the hell you are talking about...i play ao and ive talked with deac a few times, and no matter what anyone says hes a cool guy!
There is a lot of talking on the ao BB about the subject too and most of you ppl just read that slander about him and believe it without questioning anything! jeez! you ppl make me fucking sick!

Re:F R E A K !

[Cackmobile]

I'd say I would. I don't spend 8 hours a day playing a game. I don't even have a computer at home at the moment. I have mates and I don't hate humanity (but i do despair at it occasionally). Not saying I'm the Man or anything.

Red Dwarf

[Anonymous Coward]

Doesn't he look like Craig Charles who plays Dave Lister in the UK TV Show Red dwarf?

Stupid Registration

[pete-classic]

Why can't Slashdot get partner status with The NYT?

-Peter

Re:Stupid Registration

[Anonymous Coward]

Because then they'd have nothing to whine about. Because it costs money.

Re:Stupid Registration

[majcher]

Because they're losers. Instead of holding your breath for the nerd crew to get their shit together, use this bookmarklet instead.

Re:Stupid Registration

[majcher]

Ha! Now who's the loser? Me, that's who.

Anyway, you can get the bookmarklet from this page. Or, you know, the usual.

Re:Stupid Registration

[Anonymous Coward]

Because /.'s journalistic standards are too high.

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[CrazyJim0]

Video games have a latent skill in them. Some allow skill to show more than others. I have a great deal of skill, usually I can start off exceedingly well and do stuff the game makers didn't even intend. Different games have different skill sets, and they do transfer over to other games, or tasks in reality.

The degree of any of the skill transfer is up for grabs, but has been a fascinating topic since Robotech and The Last Starfighter.

YET ON SLASHDOT MODERATION SUCKS!!! (nt)

[Anonymous Coward]

I Smell an Elitist Hypocrite

[goldspider]

"trapped in a mean little culture of cheap thrills and fast-food television"

And escaping into a computer game is somehow more noble or meaningful? Please give me a physical break, and dispense with the drama. He's not out feeding starving children, he's playing a video game.

I have no problem with people pointing out some of the negatives of our culture, but I'm afraid playing a video game doesn't elevate one above the 'sheep-le'.

Re:I Smell an Elitist Hypocrite

[Anonymous Coward]

i read nothing to make me thing he felt like he was better then the people around him. Only that he wanted to be removed from them.

But in my opinion,

watching the crap they put on TV
VS
playing a game with low-moderate social interaction.

the winner is...
The Game

Re:I Smell an Elitist Hypocrite

[Simehiri]

Indeed, but what needs to be mentioned too, is that the personas within online games tend to be WORSE than those of the real world. While the real world has restraints and consequences for actions, online games don't. So the result is a majority playerbase of rude, cruel, petty, shallow, fickle, negative, arrogant, greedy people. Online games are very much an UNHEALTHY place already. Candid, "colorful", helpfull players like Thedeacon, and even roleplayers in general, are actually rare in such games and usually limited to small groups of friends or organizations.

Re:I Smell an Elitist Hypocrite

[Shawn Baumgartner]

It means that he's not one of the pinheads driving like an asshole, stealing the house plants by my front door, taking up two spaces in a crowded parking lot, or lobbying the government to enforce their particular morality on me at gunpoint. As far as I'm concerned, he's damn near royalty. ;)

Re:I Smell an Elitist Hypocrite

[goldspider]

If the qualifications for "royalty" have expanded to the point where they include people who insult the very society that gave them the opportunity and choice to become uninitiated, self-righteous brats, we are indeed decaying as a civilization.

Re:I Smell an Elitist Hypocrite

[Shawn Baumgartner]

Funny, royalty always seemed to be composed of uninitiated, self-righteous brats who were given that opportunity simply by falling out of the right uterus. We here in the grand old U.S. of A. make it a choice as well. I'd call that a step up for civilization. ;)

Real Life

[XenoDonkey]

Sure, it could be said that this world is uncaring and populated with less than stellar personalities. I might even agree with that to a certain degree, which is why it is understandable that a person would want to escape it as often as possible. In the end, however, such escapism is self-defeating. Our beloved Hardcore Gamer may think that the more he gets to know humanity the more he is disgusted with it, but that's because it's what he chooses to see.

Life itself has no inherrent traits, it has neither good nor bad, lor or hate. It has nothing. Everything that has value in our lives is so valued because we give it value; the same is true with what we choose to see in humanity.

Ultimately, what we choose to accept of the world determines how we feel about it. The holocaust was bad, really bad; but that doesn't make it the defining trait of humanity. After all, someone made that whole affair end...

I find it sickening that someone can so easily say they hate the world, then try and create a new one that offers no fulfillment. That virtual world is not permanent, it does not endure, but the real world is always going on, even when you turn your back on it.

Re:Real Life

[kin_korn_karn]

I find it sickening that someone can so easily say they hate the world, then try and create a new one that offers no fulfillment.
Define fulfillment in this context.

Re:Real Life

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, a virtual world by its nature is fleeting. While real life is also fleeting, what it has to offer is in fact real, the events that transpire here genuinely affect your life. Perhaps something could happen to you in a game of AO (or choose your favorite MMORPG) that might give you cause to think about your actions, but ultimately whatever happens in that game stays there. You don't take it with you on your constitutionals, nor will it keep you up at night thinking about how horrible or terrific you were that day. There's nothing solid to its existence.

You die in the game and you respawn, if you get shot in a drive by shooting you're really dead. In the end the game offers nothing life altering, nothing that can truly affect the way the real world around you functions. Because the game offers nothing of substance it offers nothing but escapism, and hence no fulfillment.

I think that rambled on quite long enough...

Re:Real Life

[XenoDonkey]

Mistakenly posted as anonymous coward...the shame...sigh. As for being cool... I am way cooler than I think I am, and better looking too. Now hand me another beer.

TEH FOOTNESS!

[Anonymous Coward]

TEH FOOTNESS!

(for those who know him :)

This man needs help

[tsa]

" "It's a total release of the id," he said one Thursday last month as
he sat in a Japanese restaurant in Madison with his wife, Sarah A.
Werner-Stenlund, explaining his attraction to Anarchy Online. "I think
people are generally false. Even sitting here with you, we are putting
on a front. But in A. O. you can really let your true character out.
If I want to be a pervert, I am able to do that in A. O. and be a
pervert right off the bat." "

This man needs help. If you have such a distorted view of the people around you something is very wrong with you. It's a miracle that he is still married.

Re:This man needs help

[Anonymous Coward]

Heh.. you have to know him to not be "sickened" by his description. He's very funny and entertaining. For example, read his "Teh Deacon for President!" post:

LET ME LEAD YOU!

The Sentinel are murderers that must be stopped!

They despise Neutrals, they oppress Clans and they even shoot women!

Iâ(TM)m here to put a stop to this. Let it be known that I love you all equally, but promise to take extra special care of our female citizens, as I understand how the women are neglected under the current sexist pig regime. I'm widely known for being sensitive and loving to the female gender's needs, knowing exactly what they need and when they need it to ensure their happiness.

I want to take each and every one of my wonderful clan citizens, perhaps several of you at a time and hold you in my arms and tell you....."I care!"

What you need is a leader that will get behind you and work even the hardest issues that a lesser man would refuse to tackle. And sticky situations? I mop those up in a hurry with years of leadership experience and a large staff of experienced members!

I am absolutely nothing like Current 'leader' Simon Silverstone, who chooses to sit around with his gun in his hands, instead of using his weapon for the greater good.

You need someone who is not ashamed to work underneath you with all my energy, or if the situation calls for it, get on top of the problem and dive to the center of the matter.

A leader that will love you for a good long stretches at a time, one that really comes forth to deliver the goods.

I promise you that if I am made the new leader of the clans, you will never catch me with my pants down or lying down on the job. I prefer to do my business standing UP, like a real man should, never bending over to pressure from the opposition like the council of Truth.

I promise to be the kind of leader that you can bear it all to, and I will always make sure to give you the naked truth as long as you can do the same for me. Any time you need to get something off your chest, you can always come to me and I will take your problem into my very own hands and work it all out.

And donâ(TM)t think that all this caring would make me a âsoftâ(TM) leader, either. I promise to be the type of leader that can always rise to the occasion and really drive home the issues, no matter how long it takes! And I can work on it for a LONG time!

Youâ(TM)re all important to the cause of clans, be you big or small. Your size does not matter, itâ(TM)s what you do with your energy and enthusiasm that gives me that special feeling.

So if your cups runneth over with love for your clans,

VOTE THEDEACON FOR CLAN PRESIDENT!! OMG!

Vote today, be satisfied for hours afterwards!

Their description of him in the article was kind of rough, but he's a great guy once you get to know him. :)

Re:This man needs help

[Anonymous Coward]

Back off, John Q. ConcernedCitizen.

Re:This man needs help

[pdbogen]

Maybe I just have the same 'condition' as Mr. Stenlund, but are you honestly trying to tell us that you are completely honest in your interpersonal dealings? I know I'm not.

Re:This man needs help

[tsa]

You're right of course. But what I meant was that people who say that "everybody is so asleep in this world" and "The more you deal with people, the more you hate people" are mentally unhealthy in my opinion. I don't mean they're bad people, but apparently they mistrust everyone they don't know. That is not normal behaviour.

Re:This man needs help

[Edmund Blackadder]

He is perfectly right people usually are false. Most people are in denial about it, but it is true.

Re:This man needs help

[Anonymous Coward]

mentally unhealthy just means does not accept the tenants of the society in which they live. women were called witches or mentally unsound if they expresesed an indipendant thought in the late 18th century. if you didnt believe in god you were mentally unhealthy for most of the last 2000 years. its just optimists and pessimists that you are talking about and our society values optimists except when you look to art, philosophy or music. then the pessimists rule.

additionally i would add that youve probably never had to work doing customer service or very quickly you would realize what this gentlemen is saying.

Re:This man needs help

[Anonymous Coward]

Straight up. The average person is garbage.

I've never worked retail, but have immense respect for the people that do.

Re:This man needs help

[Fulcrum of Evil]

I don't mean they're bad people, but apparently they mistrust everyone they don't know. That is not normal behaviour.

Ever see how people treat a new idea or invention?

Re:This man needs help

[Anonymous Coward]

His problem is that he likes to play by the rules, you see in a game everything is very structured, and certain actions will bring certain results. Not to mention that you can just start over whenever you please. Try that in real life. I remember reading in a previous slashdot story of an Everquest gamer who killed himself (I think) because someone cheated his character in the game? Video games seem to be a magnet for people who want a structured environment where they are impowered and omnipotent? I'd really like to hear how playing 4 hours a day of Quake 3 is going to make me a better more balanced person.

Re:This man needs help

[srn_test]

> "The more you deal with people, the more you hate people"

You've clearly never worked in tech support.

Re:This man needs help

[Anonymous Coward]

"I think people are generally false. Even sitting here with you, we are putting on a front."

If you have such a distorted view of the people around you something is very wrong with you.

Indeed. How dare he suggest that the person to whom I'm replying to would do something like that. Since that clearly can't possibly be true, the person being interviewed must be insane.

In the United States of America? How could anyone be less than truthful in every aspect of their lives when the core of their education comes from the "Tube of Truth" which broadcasts information which makes people question every aspect of existence, from their desires and goals to their place in the structure of people which at the last link of the human chain helps the citizens to find the right path at gunpoint?

Furthermore

[CodeHog]

If he wasn't busy running virutal strikes and building up admiration, maybe he could write up a design document for integration documents into a data repository, manage a group of techs in India from the US, troubleshoot server problems, write a self assessment, and post to /.

BECAUSE ONLY THE FIRST HIT IS EVER FREE (nt)

[Anonymous Coward]

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[tomstdenis]

Addressing your points...

1) Often being "better" at a game is more a matter of circumstance [lower ping, joining first, playing more] than actually having better faculties. I find that often over internet FPS type games I get whoop but over LANs I do fairly well... [etc]

2) I'd argue the value of the social component. First off, gamers hide by not only fake names but fake personas. Yeah I know "what's in a name" but most people grow into their name [e.g. within their community]. Making a fake name and persona is just a matter of detaching from one society to join another.

3) I've met a few hard core RPG style gamers [and card players [e.g. magic]] and I'd have to say they're not all that inteligent. They're good at the games for the sole reason that they memorized the dark tree stump can tap eight mana and stop +3 damage.

When is the last time you saw a dissertation on Diablo strategy? They're not "brainy" games that require a whole heck of a lot of thought.

Note I'm not saying games don't have any strategy. I'm just saying the strategy is so deep 12 yr olds can pick it out.... draw your own conclusions.

4) I too would applaud that.

Tom

Re:Arr Laddy!

[mekkab]

Dewd, you are awesome!

You had (nearly)the same post for the Carpal Tunnel Syndrome article!
(sorry, I'm a little slow this morning- I realize this is probably part of a larger tend for you but I'm just now putting the pieces together.)

I assume you lost your eye shortly after replacing the hand with a hook.

Re:Asheron's Call kiled a man... (not really)

[jetkust]

...Wait, before you go any further, "Loser" is actually You right? Or am I misreading this?

Like workaholic with a key difference

[release7]

A lot of people escape reality by becoming completely engrossed in their day jobs. Except they're not filing bankruptcy like this guy did.

Yah thats true too

[CrazyJim0]

I remember playing Asheron's Call 12hrs a day for money on ebay. And I wrote macros for it when I wasn't playing. In fact I was the #1 go to guy for automated players since I wrote the first succesful one... Also I wrote highly complex macros that:
used visual recognition queues
navigated the land by checking coords(from visual recognition)
Fought the right enemies
Looted their corpses

Then I sold the lewt on ebay. Very few even held a candle to my macro writing skills.

I even wrote macros for DAOC, but it was easier. I didn't have to evaluate pixel colors to determine what was on screen... They saved stuff to a log file. So all I had to do was load up the log file in another thread, and parse the new lines as they came. Its so cool to watch your character run, and adjust its directional angle by analyzing its estimated current heading from previous and current coordinates.

Re:Yah thats true too

[Anonymous Coward]

I call bullshit on this. Any AC players want to back this up?

Re:Yah thats true too

[Anonymous Coward]

and I give a fuck because......?

You toot your own horn too much, kid. Either you're telling the truth, or you're lying. I don't think you wrote anything yourself. I think you found some 'macros' someone else wrote, and you changed a few things. I highly doubt you're imaginative enough to have done such on your own. Most people who think they can program, can't.

Re:Yah thats true too

[CrazyJim0]

I have the code, wanna see it?

Also I sold 400 copies to players back in the day, and I could dig their email up.

I'm a world class video game player, designer, coder, and software theorists. Yet I can't find a job that pays beans.

If you don't believe what I say, I have over a decade of work I can show you :)

Re:Yah thats true too

[Anonymous Coward]

That's because of a 2.5 GPA which is, if you haven't heard, pathetic.

Re:Yah thats true too

[Big_Breaker]

I'm curious who you were. I used ACTool for a long time and farmed trade notes, plats and did a bit of combat macroing. Were you the one that made the shard bot?

Re:Yah thats true too

[Big_Breaker]

I can back up that people like this existed on AC 1 and there were at most a handful of them - maybe only one.

Everything he described was totally possible. I am an AC 1 player and wrote macros that were a notch below what he says he did.

Re:Yah thats true too

[BiteMeFanboy]

You've got shit, I've been to your site. If you truly did graduate from CMU I shudder to think of the morons that will come in trying to get jobs.

BTW You have absolutely zero grasp of AI concepts. My girlfriend could have written the same crap down and it would have been coherent, and probably a little less clueless.
There were no "sites" on the internet in 93. Commercial traffic was still not allowed. Not to mention that auctions were taking place for years on usenet.

You've innovated nothing no matter how many times you claim you have, and it's no wonder you don't have a job.

WATCH 40 HRS OF FOOTBALL A WEEK? STRAITJACKET (nt)

[Anonymous Coward]

Re:Asheron's Call kiled a man... (not really)

[Anonymous Coward]

Pot, or Kettle?

"let's call him Loser."
", played some D&D with all of us"

Who's the bigger looser?

[twocoasttb]

Mr. Stenlund or his wife? What the hell is she sticking around for? This guy isn't hardcore, he's an addict. The scary thing is, we're going to be seeing many, many more people like him as these games become more popular and our society becomes even more disconnected. What a waste.

Re:Who's the bigger looser?

[instanto]

More jobs for the rest of us :-)

Re:Who's the bigger looser?

[pmz]

The scary thing is, we're going to be seeing many, many more people like him as these games become more popular and our society becomes even more disconnected.

I'm not so sure. Computer games are just a new outlet for certain types of people who were always there. Usually, people like this have a history, usually with their parents, where, once that history is known, their current behavior is quite understandable.

Re:Who's the bigger looser?

[Anonymous Coward]

Did you see the picture? She wasn't half bad looking. Plus, from her comment, she seems like she has a sense of humor.

Doesn't sound so bad.

Re:Who's the bigger looser?

[Anonymous Coward]

I have to agree. If my husband was going to pack everything and myself up and go to Vegas with no planning, no opportunity...I would dump the guy in a heartbeat. He seems like a first class mooch. My boyfriend was umemployed for 4 months and I told him...work at the temp labour place or else I don't think I have much of a future with you.

Re:Who's the bigger looser?

[Anonymous Coward]

No, because your employer won't be able to pay unemployment insurance. Also, your wages will be lower, because the government will be paying for his twinkies and DSL with money removed from your diminishing check.

Moderation is a good thing.

[mekkab]

Except on slashdot.

[RIM-SHOT!]

Re:The geek in me thinks...

[jgerman]

12.95 a month is unlikely to be all his money. Expecially considering he's going to spend money on entertainment one way or another, 12.95 a month is really cheap. As far as time, who's to say how he should spend his free time.

SMURFS DON'T IMPRESS US /. GIRLS EITHER (nt)

[Anonymous Coward]

I remember magic

[CrazyJim0]

I was a very powerful competitor among my play group. People in my group went on to win $25,000 tourneys occassionally. I did quite well in tournaments myself, but what made me stop playing was "rules lawyering" and spoil sports playing.

Video games have a built in referee, and its one of the reasons I prefer video games to other sprots and competitions.

I've actually made friends through playing magic the gathering because it was social, and something to do in an area that has nothing but houses and cows.

Re:I remember magic

[tomstdenis]

I suppose the golden rule is moderation. Given the chance to play say a real physical game and a virtual one I'd play the real one [even though I'm not in what you'd call athletic shape].

As long as you can't recite your deck of magic cards forwards and backwards you're ok by my rules :-)

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[Anonymous Coward]

Who are you to tell people what they should do?

How can you gain happiness if you are forced to do what society wants you to do? You will only become a slave that way. A slave of society, not thinking but only accepting what society accepts and rejecting what society rejects.

Since it requires much training to point a mouse to a target fast enough, it is by definition a skill.

"Get fucking real"

Everything is as real as it is not.

I'm past near broke

[CrazyJim0]

I have NO money.

I have $70,000 debt.

I owe my mom money.

I owe my dad money.

Nothing I have is paid for.

I was raised on the false notion that if I tried really hard and graduated that I'd find gainful employment.

Re:I'm past near broke

[Anonymous Coward]

Blame your parents for that, boyo. Keep it real and stop living above your means. People are raising entire families all over by nothing but sheer hustle. Pull your sorry ass up by the boot straps and stop smoking bong hits on the couch with your 'homies'. Jobs are out there but noone is showing up at the job fair to whisk you off to your dream job at software company, inc. You have to hustle for shit these days, you have to do the dirty work to show people your grit. These whines on slashdot are ridiculous, they make me sick. I have no degree and have been employed continuously since the age of 16. Thats 18 straight years so far you little punk. You got no game, that is your problem.

Addictions

[Mr2cents]

I always wanted to know hom many people are addicted to something. In my opinion, most people are addicted to one thing or another, let it be work, games or drugs. Personally, I stick to Wolfenstein and marihuana :).

Re:Addictions

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you should stick to a dictionary or use shorter words :) The correct spelling is marijuana, but weed or pot will suffice.

Re:Addictions

[OneArmedMan]

I'm addicted to Life.

But only cause Death seems so dull and boring

so let move to vegas!

[jzarling]

"Now, however, the couple's most important goal is to relocate to an exotic destination in this galaxy: Las Vegas." So he's a guy with a addictive peronality traits, and he is moving to Vegas?

Re:so let move to vegas!

[ClippyHater]

I heard that some organization or another is actually paying for his relocation. Something about long-term planning...

Re:so let move to vegas!

[Theaetetus]

Thank you! Was wondering if someone would bring that up.

Studies like this one show that 'addictive personalities' tend to be prone to addiction to many things. Alcoholics are frequently gamblers or smokers too. He's going to get hooked on gambling if he goes to Vegas and still try to defend it as escapism.

-T

Re:so let move to vegas!

[Anonymous Coward]

It looks like they only included college students in the survey. So I'm not sure they can make the generalization of 'men and women' by just using college students like that... Then again, I am not a psychology major or anything.

Prolfile of a hardcore LOSER is more like it.

[Anonymous Coward]

7 hours a day 7 days a week ..... get a life dude

Re:Prolfile of a hardcore LOSER is more like it.

[Squidgee]

Really?

On average on American will spend 6-8 hours a day in front of a TV. This guy doesn't watch TV. Therefore, how is this any different? If anything, it's better, as it's at least intellectually stimulating...

Re:Prolfile of a hardcore LOSER is more like it.

[panaceaa]

Where is your evidence that Americans spend 6-8 hours a day in front of a TV? Do you even know anyone that watches that much TV? Every day? I'd like to see an actual report on American TV usage, preferably not organized by TV networks.

Big Cities Where Big Things Happen

[xTown]

Far from being too far from "big cities where big things happen", Madison is in pretty much the perfect location.

Milwaukee is an hour away. Chicago is two hours away. Minneapolis is not much more than that.

The University of Wisconsin is in Madison, so you've got all of the resources of a college town. If you're into sports, the UW has excellent teams in a variety of them, and you're only a few hours away from professional sports in Milwaukee, Green Bay, Chicago, and the Twin Cities.

If you like bookstores, Madison has a ton of them, and not just big chains like Borders and B&N. There are a wide variety of used book stores downtown, including one that specializes in science fiction and fantasy.

We don't get earthquakes. In Madison, I've heard the tornado warning siren exactly once in the last dozen years. Flooding is pretty much never an issue.

Madison has a good symphony and a viable opera. We also have art-house movie theaters. Madison has or is close to several very good experimental and straight theater groups. We also have an award-winning alternative newsweekly, Isthmus.

To sum up: no disasters. Lots of books. Art. Theater. University. Cities close by if you want them, cities ignorable if you'd rather ignore them.

Frankly, if this guy can't find intellectual stimulation in Madison, he won't find it anywhere. Least of all in Las Vegas.

Re:Big Cities Where Big Things Happen

[spotteddog]

The guy spends his time playing a video game. He skipped higher education because it was too "limiting."

This is one guy who is *not* looking for intellectual stimulation. He will fit right in in Vegas (on the street with the rest of the "hardcore gamers").

Re:Big Cities Where Big Things Happen

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

hell yes. Vegas is the anti-intellectual. Even the citizens are come and go, so very little real culture sprouts up. I remember reading in one of our local weekly free news papers that half the reason why geeking out in vegas sucks is that there IS no culture to be had here and that it's not too attractive to geeks. =/

Re:Big Cities Where Big Things Happen

[scosol]

Oh and there's the beach too- err wait...
Oh and the mountains for snow sports in the winter- err hmm yeah.

Face it, the bay area is tha shit :)

Re:Big Cities Where Big Things Happen

[xTown]

There's no ocean, but Madison has a couple of really nice lakes with things that pass for beaches. The "pretty girls in bikinis" part is certainly there. (I know, it doesn't compare to the ocean; I'm from Hawaii and miss the ocean a lot.)

There are also places to downhill ski and snowboard, as well as snowmobile trails and cross-country skiing. That pretty much takes care of winter sports; I'm not mentioning hockey and skating because--wonder of wonders--you can do those year-round.

The Bay area is overcrowded and overpriced, and while Madison is making serious inroads towards both of those goals, it isn't there yet. Plus there's those pesky earthquake, which, as I mentioned, Madison just doesn't have. And in the Bay, can you really ignore San Francisco and Oakland? Here in Madison, I can pretend that Chicago doesn't exist.

But that's neither here nor there; Madison isn't the podunk porno-filled cowtown that the Times made it out to be. It's got everything a big city has without having to actually be a big city.

Re:Big Cities Where Big Things Happen

[Anonymous Coward]

And strip clubs. Let's not forget the strip clubs!

Do we want to be "hard core gamers"?

[Gax]

I have to ask the question, how many people want to be hardcore gamers? It appears that magazines such as EDGE (UK) are always raving at hard-core gamers as if they were the elite of gaming style. Although games should be recognised as an art form, I find the term to be alienating for people who don't have the time or resources to choose the latest hits.

Re:Do we want to be "hard core gamers"?

[untaken_name]

I have to ask the question, how many people want to be hardcore gamers?

I don't think true hard-core gamers aspire to that title. They just are. Like hard-core anything else, the majority do it because they love it, and don't care if someone else thinks they are hard-core or not. Hint: if someone talks about how hard-core they are about anything, they're usually just talking. Not always, but usually. This applies anywhere there is a scene.

It appears that magazines such as EDGE (UK) are always raving at hard-core gamers as if they were the elite of gaming style.

That's because they *are*, for better or worse.

Although games should be recognised as an art form, I find the term to be alienating for people who don't have the time or resources to choose the latest hits.

Well, if you don't *find* the time or resources for the latest and greatest games, you probably are not a hard-core gamer. I've been in and out of poverty many times in my life, but I've always found ways to pursue the things that are most important to me. I'm not a hard-core gamer, although I love playing games of all types and I own quite a few consoles and various accessories, as well as many PC games. I don't feel insulted by this, cause the whole point of 'hard-core' is the relatively few individuals that make up the 'core' of the scene, with many many times their number being in the casual to devoted fan range. To be hard-core means to value (activity X) more than just about anything else. There are those kind of people in every scene I can think of. Don't be insulted if you aren't a hard-core gamer. Just play games when you want to, and don't feel you *have* to be hard-core.

You have a false notion of Podunk

[CrazyJim0]

Most people in small towns don't know each other. They only yell at their neighbor for doing anything to their yard.

You step out of your house in a Podunk town, and you don't even have a sidewalk, so you need money just to go anywhere in your car.

obligatory reg free link

[uninstall]

Read it here (courtesy of google news).

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[tomstdenis]

Whoa you're trolling mor than I was.

I never said people shouldn't play games [though I'd actively discourage RPG/MMORPG games]. I said playing a video game which a 12 yr can master is not a skill.

Tom

Twin worlds

[Pendersempai]

The most interesting part of the article is the pictures. About half show Mr. Stenlund in his apartment, in a restaurant, or with his wife. The other half are screenshots of his character in-game. Both are captioned similarly.

The real life picture:"CELEBRITY - Richard L. Stenlund and his wife, Sarah A. Werner-Stenlund, at home."

The in-game screenshot: "WARRIOR - Accompanied by three minions, Thedeacon, with gun, prepares to attack a monster, left, in the game Anarchy Online.")

The article makes a salient (if subtle) point -- the twin worlds of real and simulated are converging. The bytes on a stick of RAM, the packets flung across Cable TV lines -- these coalesce into a spatial world depicting personality and (in this case) lending illustration to a personal article.

Re:Twin worlds

[matt_wilts]

The article makes a salient (if subtle) point -- the twin worlds of real and simulated are converging. The bytes on a stick of RAM, the packets flung across Cable TV lines -- these coalesce into a spatial world depicting personality and (in this case) lending illustration to a personal article.

You are John Katz and I claim my five dollars.

Move.

[eggstasy]

You know, the rest of the world, unlike America, has no serious high-tech unemployment problems... I'm not out of college yet and I make a fair bit of money. Not an awful lot, but enough to pay for college and books, with some left after that for vacations and movies or gifts for my girl.
I don't think I would have any problem getting a steady job if I graduated tomorrow - in fact, most colleges around here PROVIDE you with jobs (internships) after you graduate, and everyone ends up staying at their place of internship as a permanent employee.
Of course it would be kinda hard to start over in a new country when you're that deeply in debt. I wish you luck.

Re:Move.

[Graspee_Leemoor]

" You know, the rest of the world, unlike America, has no serious high-tech unemployment problems.."

Wrong, here in the UK we have similarly bad IT unemployment problems.

graspee

Re:Move.

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoa. TWO countries. TWO ENTIRE COUNTRIES!!!
Out of what, 250 in total?
Get real. Most of the world is in DIRE NEED of qualified tech workers. My former employer sure as hell was, given that I was the only one with any amount of computer science classes in there and still didnt know squat about ASP, ADO, XSLT or the technology flavour du jour.
You, my friend, are suffering from what is commonly known as "Proof by example".

Re:Move.

[RiffRafff]

And what might the pay scale be, in some of these other 248 countries, pray tell?

Re:Asheron's Call kiled a man... (not really)

[Schezar]

God no. I never knew Loser's real name. I just didn't want to use pronouns for that whole little story.

He was real. Really unnerved Greg, the friend in question. I guess it's creepy to have that sort of person in close proximity for a long period of time.

MMORPG stereotype destroyed!

[mapmaker]

Wow, that story sure did dispell the biased notion that online RPG players are disfunctional failers in the real world who use these games to flee their miserable lives.

I don't think so....

[TnkMkr]

Ummm... I lived in Madison for a few years while I was attending the College of Engineering there. I don't like the way they paint the city as this little town with nothing but adult bookstores and used car lots. The city is the state capitol. Aside from the capitol is a large University. The city has its fair share of malls, chain stores, as well as brand spanking new mulit-million dollar arts district being constructed down town. Hell, Raven software and a few other software companies are in Madison. I'll admit the city is no Chicago, New York or L.A., but it is hardly a po-dunk population 100 town with no oppertunites. I don't know what big city events he is looking for, but I can't imagine anything I can do here in Washington D.C. that I could not have easily done in Madison. There is just more traffic here. As far as him finding opportunities, I think there is problem with the person not the city. If he devoted 7hrs a day to the local university Iâ(TM)ll bet he would learn more and accomplish more than he does playing A.O. Based on previous posts, I would classify him as an addict rather than a hardcore gamer. If he is unhappy with his life then he needs to get out from behind his computer and out on the streets looking to better his life. Opportunity is won, not found or given.

Re:I don't think so....

[Anonymous Coward]

I would say they did a great job of describing Madison.

It is a revoloting, boring place... sorry.

Re:I don't think so....

[Herkum01]

The city has its fair share of malls, chain stores,

I have have my share of pet peeves, one is coming out right. When did poeple define chain stores and malls as something to do

Chain stores are all the fucking same! They can slap the name Wal-Mart, K-Mart, or Target on the damn building but they are still selling the same shit! Noone goes and says, "Hey Wally they are having a special on toothbrushes over at the K lets go and spend they day there!" As for a mall it is a fucking group of little ass chain stores, and the same stores at every mall! So the malls are all the frinking same!

How can anyone sit there with a straight face and tell me that the existence of a chain store or a mall equals that there is something to do, has been mind-scrubbed by US marketing pretty damn well. When there some store that actually gets people to interact at some level, whether with their environment or with people, then that place has something to do. Selling cheapshit out of a what is basically a giant warehouse is not something to do!

I got out of it when I found it was dorky

[CrazyJim0]

Alot of people play games, video or cards, and think they rule because they can defeat their local groups. I play games only when I can compete with everyone on the planet thats how I have some fame on it. Also this is the reason I like MMOG, but I don't think they got enough competition yet.

I do like physical games too, but they require organization, and set times to setup. You can rarely if ever find a physical game to play in modern society, unless you're a child prodigy trying to get into the majors.

Online gaming is very addictive

[Anonymous Coward]

I have friends that play that game. It's very addictive, and I've seen them waste their lives.

Online gaming is very tricky, since you're able to do most things you do in real life, so if you're having a hard time, the game is a way to regain your self-esteem. Problem is that it doesn't give you shit in Real Life (tm), so you end up playing the game, over and over (since the more you gain in the game, the more you loose in the real world). It's made for one thing: making money for the owners.

If you wanna be a consumerish fuel cell, fine by me.

More info.

You can't move with no money and debt

[CrazyJim0]

I have no money, and I have debt. I have enough gas in my car to drive 20 miles.

My college isn't doing shit for me, I'm asking for help, but no one wants to talk to me.

It sucks too because I'm an awesome computer application programmer, and I have designed many things other people developed and became successful with.

Re:You can't move with no money and debt

[loucura!]

If you're such an awesome programmer, you should be able to get a job where they will pay for you to relocate. If you can't be bothered to look for a job where they will relocate you, why'd you bother going to college?

You have to look for a job, they're not going to look for you.

Re:You can't move with no money and debt

[Zathrus]

What a load of crap.

Sorry, you're not getting my sympathy - you're getting some pity, but more for your parents than for you.

Hint - your parents don't want you living at home. They'd much rather you get out and get your own life.

There are thousands of computer jobs available in the US. Yeah, maybe you live somewhere where there aren't many right now, so freaking move. Don't have gas? Well, might I suggest that you cut out the online games, use some of the money you're spending on MMORPGs to get gas money, and vacate? Spend the time you're wasting on /. actually doing work - I'm sure you could find a second job. You have a job, right? Again. Move.

You're an awesome programmer? Nothing you've said has proven it. In fact, you merely claim to have designed things that other people implemented. Sorry, doesn't make the grade - I've interviewed a ton of people who claim to be "awesome developers", have high knowledge about various languages, designed tons of stuff, yadda yadda yadda, and yet they utterly and completely fail our interview questions. All of which are technical, ranging from absurdly simple to needing to know the intracacies of the language (no, you don't have to get those, but you have to at least have a clue -- these "great" coders didn't).

Is this harsh? Damn straight. Sounds like someone needs to slap you upside the head and kick your ass into reality, because you don't get it yet.

I knew a similar loser in EQ... a pathetic dweeb that couldn't do anything with his life and just skimmed off his parents. And, as it turned out, his friends. Hopefully you're at least not doing that, but whining about how society has "wronged" you is bullshit. Welcome to the American Dream -- it is not society's burdon to make sure you succeed, it's yours.

Re:You can't move with no money and debt

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you ever WRITTEN & IMPLEMENTED an impressive program? Or a similar such demo? That might help land a job. Just thinking of ideas isn't enough, you gotta follow through.

Re:You can't move with no money and debt

[EastCoastSurfer]

I've interviewed a ton of people who claim to be "awesome developers", have high knowledge about various languages, designed tons of stuff, yadda yadda yadda, and yet they utterly and completely fail our interview questions.

Bingo. I have been interviewing people for a developer position for some time and have been running into the same thing. I don't expect people to know everything I ask but I do expect them to:

a) be excited about having an interview opportunity
b) know the things they "claim" to know on their resume

Saying your are expert level at SQL and then not even know the difference between LEFT/RIGHT joins just doesn't cut it.

Re:You can't move with no money and debt

[Zebbers]

sniff sniff

trapped????

[Anonymous Coward]

"Mr. Stenlund, meanwhile, feels trapped - trapped in a town too far from big cities where big things happen"

Can I point out that Madison is a city of over 200,000 and is less than an hour away from Milwaukee, less than 3 hours from Chicago, and less than 5 hours from Minneapolis. Sheesh...does this idiot own a car???

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, ok I think so too -_-

sorry I just woke up and haven't had my first cup of coffee yet ;P

MMOGs and age.

[Andy Dodd]

With exceptions, often 12 year olds are the least likely to succeed (or even play) an MMOG.

Because of the social interactions and complexity of most MMOGs, those who have good communications skills and are intelligent are most likely to succeed.

Some MMOGs have higher ages than others. DAoC, which has a large amount of hack-n-slash, seems to have a greater following in younger circles than EVE Online, which seems to have a much higher average age, partly due to the fact that the game is insanely complex and to really succeed requires a basic grasp of economic principles. (The truly rich people are those who can find good trade routes... Which is very difficult and requires a lot of thinking and calculations.)

From the article

[nightsweat]

They don't get out much. That is partly a result of the couple's dim finances, but also a result of Mr. Stenlund's dim view of humanity. "The more you deal with people, the more you hate people," he said. "It just feels that everybody is so asleep in this world."

So go out and do something to wake them up. Don't retreat to the electronic anaesthetics. TV, computer games, music - all these exist in some part to desensitize you to the world around you and the people you live near. Wake the hell up and wake up a neighbor while you're at it.

I bet you haven't even tried!

[Greyfox]

Have you ever taken a seat next to a beautiful woman in a bar and said "Hey, Baby, my slashdot karma is excellent, mostly the result of moderations to my posts!"

It could be the start of something beautiful. Be sure to let us know where you plan to try it so we can all be there to watch.

Re:I bet you haven't even tried!

[geekoid]

NO, but I have said:
"Hey, Baby, my slashdot karma is excellent, mostly the result of moderations to my penis!"

Re:I bet you haven't even tried!

[GlassUser]

You just gave me the basis for my next pickup line. Thanks. I can't really give you a citation in my hook up, though. Well, . . . no, I can't even holler out "greyfox" when I'm about to . . . you know, never mind. I'll just say thanks.

Wish I could tape it. Wonder how it will work out.

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[@madeus]

You want some real skill learn to play an instrument [piano is fairly hard] or invent a longer lasting light bulb. Those are *real* talents.

It seems like it's been a long time since you've played any modern multiplayer title.

You think is is random chance? Is it random that a serious Quake/Counter Strike/Street Fighter player could beat you 100 times in straight matches?

If you still contend there is no skill, give it a try and see how well you do.

I'm sorry but most 12 yr old kids can play the same games and I certainly don't idolize them.

Most 12 years olds can plonk the keys on a piano and make sound come out of it too - nobody is suggesting they are _good_ at it though, or worth idolising. Most games are ment to be very accessible, like most sports.

As for for you comment about 'real' talents: What about football players? Or tennis players, or table tennis players, or golfers - do you think they are not 'real' talents? Why should the ability to be good at table tennis, or softball, or batting, pitching, fielding, or kicking a ball, be held in any higher regard than the ability to be really good at game like Quake, Counter Strike or a more complex and strategic title like Ghost Recon?

If your assumuption was correct then you should be able to beat Quake III on the hardest level with little difficulty, after all others can do it - and so if it takes no skill why would you find it difficult when they do not?

You are so amazingly anachronistic it's stunning. Games are not like Zork any more, titles like Ghost Recon have easily require easily as much skill as a paintball, and MotoGP as much skill as entry level karting, but online games are physically and practically more accessable (and cheaper).

Re:Asheron's Call kiled a man... (not really)

[Anonymous Coward]

I never liked Loser. I wonder why...

probably because you gave him a nickname like loser, never gave him a chance, before you really got to know him you made up your mind.... You still don't know him so try and make up any excuses. "well he... Well I did..." sure ya. if you did you wouldn't still be calling him loser.

what is a 'hardcore gamer?'

[SCHecklerX]

I just don't get how those two words can possibly go together.

I think you live too far from sanity

[EnglishTim]

You say you have 'celebrity status' and are a 'revolutionary computer software developer'...

Sounds to me like you're a few sandwiches short of a picnic...

In a way, we do have partnership

[zapp]

Haven't you seen the comment posts with the slashdot username and password for NYT? I forget what they are exactly, but it's something like:

slashdot1/slashdot
or
slashdot/shash1

or somesuch thing...
sorry I can't be more specific, but I do know someone made an account.

No one wants to go the full monty

[Perianwyr Stormcrow]

Ultima Online had a similar system to what you describe. Players of exceptional ability in roleplaying with good interpersonal skills were tapped to act as Seers, who led small-scale events within the gameworld. The problem was that these events were too small-scale- the game designers would trust them with no more than that- which caused significant animosity among the playerbase for not having had a chance to participate.

The makers of UO were also unprepared to pay their Seers anything at all, so when the AOL volunteer lawsuit came around, UO dumped its entire volunteer program out of concern for such a situation.

It was badly handled. I would have paid a few players to perform interest work, and actually given them real jobs. Then, I would have given other players the opportunity to take lesser positions more or less free from responsibility (and therefore unpaid) to supplement the paid personnel- one major issue was that players were being made to keep hours and be reliable without being compensated (see here)- and thus fill monster or minor character openings. Such players would not really be required to show up at all, but could be dismissed from the program at any time for being irritating or whatever.

Players badly want to make the gameworld larger and more involved, but no game wishes to support them.

Next on Springer

[CodeHog]

People who are gods in computer games but get no respect otherwise.

Heres some code I wrote

[CrazyJim0]

I can send you a video of me video taping my DAOC bot in progress.

They've actually patched Asheron's Call, and DAOC from some exploits I've done.

Since you won't believe I wrote my DAOC code, and its on a CD in my storage pile, I won't go to the effort of showing it. I am writing a MMORPG now, and some of the code is GPLed, so you can check it. If you have a job you can find me, then I'll show you code. Otherwise I think I've spent enough time on a worthless forum troll.

Here's the tool to build 3d fighting animations I wrote in a month:
XYZimation

KyuFu
This is for people who want to see how my games coming along.
This is also for people who don't think I can code.
I have another 2000-4000 hours of work... Next month's demo hopefully will have some combat in it.
Controls:
wasd moves
r-low punch
h-high punch
y-low kick
g-high kick
f-crouch
b-strafe/block
t-jump
v-crashes the game
Spacebar-Makes a random particle effect in the room

Try holding attacks in, some combos, standing G and H are good.
Try attacks in a jump.
Try attacks in a crouch.

No attacks do anything but animation yet.
I need to adjust some move speeds here and there, but they're not so bad now.
Later the moves will be mapped to joystick

Correct

[Perianwyr Stormcrow]

"Small towns" these days are big fucking strip malls interconnected to highways, which are built around the fact that you can get around it all in 10-20 minutes with a car. Problem- even the smallest necessities require this trip...

No one's ever told me where to look for a job

[CrazyJim0]

I've sent out 1000 resumes to any "programmer" position I see on the net, but I have never gotten an interview.

I don't have ANY idea how to look for a job, and I come from a poor family who's never had a professional career past manual labor.

I'm good at accomplishing things, but I'm not good at searching around.

Check down for my example code if you're still a disbeliever.

Re:No one's ever told me where to look for a job

[Zurk]

ok dipshit. youre in the richest country on the fucking planet. you hold an american passport which 99.99% of the rest of the world would kill for. youre located in the cheapest part of the richest country on the planet. you have the largest consumer base in the entire fucking world at your doorstep. you have the ability to code and use the most common item people have difficulty with out there -- the PC.
and whats your fucking excuse ? i dont know how to look for a job.
pathetic. just pathetic.
heres what you do :
[0] stop feeling sorry for yourself.
[1] declare bankruptcy. wipe out your debt. no one will give you a credit card ever again (for the next 7 yrs anyway) which is a GOOD THING.
[2] get a job selling cars/working at a convenience store/door to door sales/farming/manual labour.
[3] get gas money saved away.
[4] go drive to the nearest large city and sell door to door widget/magazines/books/tshirts/i-can-repair-your-p c sales pitches/i-can-fix-your-computer-program-problems service pitches/insurance/do-your-tax pitches or ANY fucking thing you can get your hands on and sell.
[5] repeat #4 until you move out of your parents basement.
[6] get a fucking house within driving distance of a fucking large metropolis.
[7] now you can buy a suite, tie and go find a programming job. by this time the fucking economy will be back on track.

Re:No one's ever told me where to look for a job

[Fulcrum of Evil]

I don't have ANY idea how to look for a job

• Get a good recuiter or a professional resume writer to look at your resume (if you can).
• Send out resumes with a cover letter specific to the job, including relevant experience, what makes you suited to the job, etc.
• Send resumes, with cover letters, to companies that may need to hire people in the short term - hell, walk around office parks and drop your resume off in a brown IO mail folder addressed to HR.
• Find out where hiring managers hang out and go there - talk to them and they may need a good developer.
• join a professional org.
• Get a job of any description so you can put gas in your car.

Re:No one's ever told me where to look for a job

[Zathrus]

declare bankruptcy. wipe out your debt. no one will give you a credit card ever again (for the next 7 yrs anyway) which is a GOOD THING.

Clueless. First off, bankruptcies stay on your credit report for 10 years, not 7. You can get credit during that time period, but it'll be at 2-3x the rate, and the only credit card you're likely to get are secured ones (most of the companies that played around in the high risk credit sector have gone poof or turned into debt collectors).

Second, you don't get to keep everything... and you sure as hell don't get out of Federal student loans. There's an entire bevy of Federal laws that supercede any state bankruptcy law regarding student loans, and they're quite nasty. If you file a Chapter 7 bankruptcy, then there are monetary limits on what you get to keep, and usually very low ones. Anything above that limit is sold at auction. If you own a home worth $75k and the state limit is $50k then the house is sold at auction, you receive $50k and the bank receives the remainder (usually much less than $25k). You're still out of a house though. If you file Chapter 13 then you can keep the house, but you're also going to keep making payments on it, at least for the term of the bankruptcy (up to 5 years).

Frankly, I doubt he has much debt other than the student loans (which were cosigned by his parents, and having them declare bankruptcy as well starts getting really absurd).

Other than that, I very much agree with #0 and 2-7. But he's not going to get out of debt easily... especially not with Federal student loans.

Re:No one's ever told me where to look for a job

[MikeFM]

Get your ass online and start meeting other people and answering questions. Despite what people may say I've found that submitting resumes and working through recruiters is pretty much useless unless you have at least a Masters degree and a few years of on the job experience. At least since the dot bomb.

Answering questions means you'll sharpen your skills, by forcing you to think through many types of problems, and you'll build a reputation up by which people will know you. Eventually people will come to you and ask if you want to work for them (or their employer) when they are needing help. Write something fun and/or useful and put the code on your website. Show off what you can do when you get the chance. Word of mouth is still the best way to get a job in my experience.

Also beware that many IT/programming jobs are short. You might be hired to write code for a friend's company and when you're done they won't have much left for you to do. On average I spend 6 months out of every year in between jobs. Learn to save enough money that during these low periods you don't starve. Of course the more experience and reputation you build up the easier it gets to find new jobs. Eventually the tech market will be growing again and then things should be considerably easier. It's hard to get work when thousands of fellow geeks are fighting for the same jobs. :)

Re:No one's ever told me where to look for a job

[foog]

Ok, it's actually not that easy to find a job that will relocate you from the middle of nowhere---it took me about two years in the middle of the dotcom boom to get out of Idaho. The truth is, any resume that's not local goes to the bottom of the pile. Now it's because they don't need you, back then it was because they wanted someone who could start yesterday. It's never easy.

There's some good advice for you sprinkled through here: join professional orgs (you ARE an ACM and IEEE Computer member, right?), find a couple of headhunters to talk to, start working NOW doing whatever you possibly can. I was working two jobs, 60-100 hrs a week of manual labor at one and slinging Access and VBA at another, and still conducting my job search, by the time I got an offer from a company in the valley.

I'd also recommend you keep in touch with your CS department as much as you can---go back for any seminars or talks you can make the drive for, go back for next year's job fairs if you have to, etc.

Then again, maybe you're just fucked.

Re:No one's ever told me where to look for a job

[Anonymous Coward]

you are gay. move out of the house and stop complaining. lazy mexican slobs can get a job easier than you.

Re:No one's ever told me where to look for a job

[Niet3sche]

Um. Your local newspaper, maybe? Here's an example for you: I do routing & switching and network security-type work (I'm now in a program that I saw first on /. - thanks guys!) but am trying to get hired on at Wal-Mart and a local pet store while continuing on with my MS and PhD. Sounds like maybe you're too focused on being uB3r-1337 and trying to foist code onto anyone who will listen to you. Don't. If nothing else, given what you said about your family, maybe you could do some manual labor yourself - you know, use them as contacts. Work is good for the spirit, you know?

Re:The geek in me thinks...

[Mikey-San]

That wasn't what the parent poster said.

Summary:

Maybe if this asshat didn't spend 40+ hours a week playing this fucking game, he could be successful and wouldn't have to find a new place to live.

Addiction, noun.

Oh yeah?

[Perianwyr Stormcrow]

My girlfriend plays fifty times as much Ultima Online as I do (I'm lucky to get an hour in here or there, she often plays 4 hours a night.) I introduced her to the game a couple of years ago when I was more or less done with it, and she really got into it. I probably would have canceled my accounts were it not for her obvious enjoyment of the game.

Re:Asheron's Call kiled a man... (not really)

[Anonymous Coward]

Loser, is that you? Didn't know you read /. man! Sorry! Good thing we don't know your real name.

Hey...

[Perianwyr Stormcrow]

I once successfully hit on a girl by talking about 8-bit Nintendo games and Autechre.

Re:Hey...

[the_consumer]

Are you sure you don't have a looser definition of "girl" than the rest of us? ;)

Re:Hey...

[lamp540]

Quoting the "does the set of sets that don't include themselves include themselves" paradox from "Goedel, Escher, Bach" once got me laid....once.

Re:Hey...

[Anonymous Coward]

Why don't we go out and get some caramels? It's just as arbitrary.

Re:Hey...

[meta.chris]

Ok, that's not valid as a geek anomaly - 8-bit Nintendo has come of age into our common nostalgia. Note that I'm not including the low/high-tech hipster factor into this equation

Now, if it was 20 years ago, and you were talking about Atari 2600 and Kraftwerk, I think the scenario would have played out quite a bit differently.

These are friendlier times for such interests.

this topic

[sukottoX]

I still get a kick every time I see this topic icon on slashdot... Tellah and that spoony bard! hahah

hehe he... hehe... hhh...

[simpl3x]

i do hate say that chicago is an hour and a half away, but i really wouldn't mind living in madison. it's a nice university town.

but, i think society at large is really in the same boat. pretty much nothing is happening since 911, it's bizarre. tv, big gulps, too much crap! it's getting old. look at the response that the review of "what should i do with my life" got here! (http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/02/03 /1858203&mode=thread&tid=98) so, do not feel like you're alone in your feelings! though, "hate" is a bit much; people are pretty similar everywhere. enlightenment does not come cheap.

i have recently read "siddhartha." quite affective. the meaning of life is not a new problem, but not searching for it is a tragedy.

What a creative, intelligent young man...

[micq]

WTF?

Like many natural extroverts, Mr. Stenlund actually seems a bit shy offstage. Though articulate and clearly intelligent, he skipped college because he believed that school stifled creativity. Even as a child, Mr. Stenlund was not very outgoing, according to his mother, Marge Jarrells.

Funny, like many of the undriven, he skipped college because he had an excuse. I could buy the whole stifled intelligence B.S. if he had done something with his un-stifled intelligence after skipping college.

"He was pretty close to home most of the time," Ms. Jarrells, a pianist in Madison, said in a telephone interview. "Growing up, it was kind of hard for him to find his niches, and that is typical for people of high intelligence. They are not as sociable as other people. They are just off to themselves in their little projects."

In this latest of Mr. Stenlund's little projects, Thedeacon has also made a name for himself as an excellent warrior. Fantastically wealthy, at Level 200, with the best, rarest equipment, Thedeacon often helps represent the rebel clans in their battles against the forces of Omni-Tek.

Projects? High intelligence? WTF?

High intelligence would be realizing that spending an avg of 7 hours a day on the computer playing video games is probably why your computer repair/building/card swapping business is bust and you're broke. What kind of project is playing a game? Leading others? The article made it clear he was a leader because he wasted his life more than most, not because he's anything special... No, no "project"...

Face it, he's a nerd playing a game. The only credit I want to give him is that he found a wife that obviously puts up with his unstifled bullshit. That, in my book, is creditworthy.

Re:What a creative, intelligent young man...

[Anonymous Coward]

High intelligence would be realizing that spending an avg of 7 hours a day on the computer playing video games is probably why your computer repair/building/card swapping business is bust and you're broke.

No, wisdom would tell one this. Intelligence is a whole different story. One can be intelligent and lack wisdom.

Re:What a creative, intelligent young man...

[hndrcks]

"One can be intelligent and lack wisdom."

In one sentence, you have summed up modern American society. Well done!

Re:What a creative, intelligent young man...

[Anonymous Coward]

You sound vaguely like the Ultima 3 manual.

Re:What a creative, intelligent young man...

[cyranoVR]

Yes but if one's Charisma is 15 or higher, than one doesn't need high intelligence or wisdom because their retainer (a level 5 fighter) will be so loyal that he will watch one's back all the time!

Re:What a creative, intelligent young man...

[djtrainwreck]

I always got confused about this one, I would always give my wizard the wisdom points by mistake when it should have been int.

Having high dexterity is important too. Looks like he has some charisma stats, well, he has a wife so I don't know if that proves anything...

Re:What a creative, intelligent young man...

[Anonymous Coward]

His wife is his cohort from his 15 Charisma (+1 bonus), she won't abandon him unless his leadership score drops below her level.

Re:What a creative, intelligent young man...

[catenos]

Projects? High intelligence? WTF?

High intelligence would be realizing that spending an avg of 7 hours a day on the computer playing video games is probably why your computer repair/building/card swapping business is bust and you're broke.

And if you cared to read the article, instead of simply quoting half of it, you would have noticed the part that mentioned, that the business was bust and he was broke, before he started playing AO.

Of course, playing excessively won't make it better, but you ignored cause and effect just to make your point.

Besides, I wonder why everyone thinks that 7 hours a day doesn't leave time for something else. On times, when I played a game extensively, that was more like 12-14 hours a day. So he does something with the rest of the time. Why do all those that pick on this point presume that he wouldn't reduce his gaming time, if he found some work?

I don't mean to say that he isn't possibly an addict or that don't spend that time on gaming wouldn't increase his chance to find other work. But nothing in the whole article suggests that gaming was the reason for the state of his business.

Re:What a creative, intelligent young man...

[lamp540]

Funny, like many of the undriven, he skipped college because he had an excuse. I could buy the whole stifled intelligence B.S. if he had done something with his un-stifled intelligence after skipping college.

Uhm, what's "driven" about attending a university? It sounds like falling not driving. You can't think for yourself so you fall into doing what everyone else does. Being "driven" denotes some sort of internal energy not simple resonance with the current state of the herd.

You aren't allowed to question anything for the first 4 years. Then for the next few years you are allowed to question some things under strict guidelines. If you're lucky and work hard after 7 or 8 years you can recieve your Ph.D and then you are allowed to create your own ideas. Sure if you can afford 30k a year for good private school you might get a more stimulating environment then from your local state bourgeois widget factory, but not necessarily. Any intelligent person who attends a university should have to defend why they made that choice given the extreme limitations it puts your intellectual development, not the other way 'round. You shouldn't need an excuse to not pay thousands or tens of thousands of dollars a year in order to get told what books to read.

Re:What a creative, intelligent young man...

[Zebbers]

maybe he needs to craft himself a +5wis ring then

Re:What a creative, intelligent young man...

[FreeForm Response]

Any intelligent person who attends a university should have to defend why they made that choice given the extreme limitations it puts your intellectual development, not the other way 'round. You shouldn't need an excuse to not pay thousands or tens of thousands of dollars a year in order to get told what books to read.

A full scholarship, perhaps?
Desire to be competitive in one's career?
Or maybe just one wants to learn something new before heading off to the cubicle farm with the rest of "the herd."

I am an undergraduate at a public school in California, and I am pleased with the education I've received. Sure, there have been a few times when I've wished I had nothing but free time so that I could code code code, but some of the classes I've been required to take have enlightened me and taught me things I wouldn't have ever known I didn't know. I think that having gotten an education will serve me very well in the future, and I for one resent your implication that everybody who attends a university is unable to think for him- or herself.

Lemme guess... didn't get into Stanford? ;-)

Anarchy Online should hire him!

[Hagar129]

Look, he's found something he enjoys and he's good at.....hello get a job doing it. ding ding ding what do we have for him johnny?!?! A job, the deek is the first virtual employee.....

Hagar...

Maybe.....

[Ex-MislTech]

Maybe he finds it hard to fit in well with corporate
america, maybe he has a hard time kissing butt .

Maybe "the game" of the real world and the ppl that
cheat you, and cheat everything around them seems
like there is less of a chance to succeed .

Maybe those that watch the TV for countless hours
waste as much time as him .

Maybe those that play sports, watch sports, attend sports,
go to concerts are wasting their time ???

After all they only have a "feeling" to show for it
afterwards , and nothing substantial .

Escapism from a world we feel we are or have lost control
over, and a meager lack luster existence that seems at
times almost predetermined drives us to Escapism .

Ppl that have jobs because they are the neice, cousin, nephew
of someone higher up and are truly inept .

Trying to find jobs and finding out they are only
taking apps from Visa workers .

The reality becomes a weight to bear, and going home and
studying for hours each day for the greater good of
the corporate yoke just becomes less and less appealing
as more and more often the corporates treat their workers
like handi-wipes .

It tends to make ppl look for success elsewhere .

Enron, Global Crossing, Broadband Office, Cisco,
Nortel, Lucent and many others all lay off thousands of ppl,
and some of them good ppl , and some worthless ones
keep their jobs .

To those in the middle of it, it makes no sense .

So they look elsewhere when they feel the deck is stacked .

Be it a TV, sports, Mall ratting, or studying hard to
be a better corporate disposable multi-tool .

What you do with your time, to take it off your present state
is up to you, and for those that question it so vehemently
perhaps you should look to your own inner peace .

How much time do we "waste" arguing topics here on slashdot
just to try to impress our point on others for self gratification
to show others that we may be right ?

Cest la Vie

Peace,
Ex-MislTech

Re:Asheron's Call kiled a man... (not really)

[Anonymous Coward]

While I have no personal knowledge of this man or experience in the multiplayer RPG genre, I did go to RIT as well. Thank you for indirectly answering the question of why there was no Preparation H in any of the stores on campus during that year; it had been puzzling me for far too long...

Even the "journalistic" standards are the same

[SuperBanana]

Why can't Slashdot get partner status with The NYT?

Sure, why not- in fact, why stop there. Jason Blair would be the perfect slashdot story submitter and editor(most story-posters simply copy, outright, the first paragraph of whatever story they're linking to; Slashdot editors do zero factchecking, etc.)

Big Stupid

[Anonymous Coward]

At USC we have a similar guy. We call him Big Stupid. You see, this guy is sorta the same to some degree, overall worse.

I first really was around Big Stupid in a Calc II discussion. This guy would show up late, and plop him 340lb ass down in the middle of the discussion section. Whatâ(TM)s worse is that Big Stupid could be smelled from wherever he sat. Even if he was at opposite corners of the room, he still would be too close. One day in this section, Big Stupid arrived with his usual disruption. But that day was special, he was sick. He had the worst cough I have ever seen, I bet this is where Severe Acute Repertory Syndrome originated. About every 10 seconds he would erupt with the hoarsest and loudest sounding cough I have ever heard. Our very nice Russian TA asked him if he would like to be excused for some water. He declined her offer. This continued all class, and I swear I could feel the germs invading my lungs every time I breathed in.

A year later I got lucky and had an OS lecture with Big Stupid. As usual, he would arrive late, but this time with 2 bags of Carlâ(TM)s Jr.â(TM)s double western combos every class. TWO combo meals! Big Stupid would sit in the third to last row of the lecture, and gobble this food up, making all sorts of noise. After Big Stupid had his fill, he would slouch back in his chair and look like he was paying attention. A few minutes later, he would throw his legs over the chair in front of him. Just after he huffs and sniffles a bit, you would begin to hear snoring coming from the back of the room. One time as the professor was asking a question, Big Stupid snored really loud, at least someone had a sense of humor with this guy and replied âoethat is not an answer.â (Iâ(TM)ll save the sleeping beauty story for another day)

Well, that was a year ago I think, and I hadnâ(TM)t seen Big Stupid around in a while. Maybe he had disappeared or been forced to repeat a few classes. Well, lucky me again when who should I find behind me in the cafeteria line? Big Stupid! I didnâ(TM)t look at him until I was at my table and noticed that he, in his greasy shirt, and leather shoes with no socks, sat down not far from where I was. Out of curiosity I looked at his plate to find a mountain of grilled cheese sandwiches (like 13 or so) on one plate, right next to another mountain of deep fried fish sticks on the other. No wonder this guy was always greasy, 2 combo meals for lunch, and 3 more pounds of grease for dinner. Thatâ(TM)s where he gets so greasy from, it oozes out through his head and body! My friends thought that we might solve the energy crisis by attaching oil rigs to him, and selling the liquid gold!

Well, I havenâ(TM)t seen Big Stupid in a while. I suppose he is still working towards his CS degree, just a few years back. He seemed like a nice guy, but its these weirdos who make the phrase âoeyeah, Iâ(TM)m a computer science majorâ a huge turn off to chicks!

So, my point is, your roommate wasnâ(TM)t the only one to suffer, I feel real bad for Big Stupidâ(TM)s former and present roommates.

This guy's broke?

[Mannerism]

Let me get this straight. You're a virtual celebrity, virtually rich and virtually powerful. Thousands on people hang on your every virtual word. You get mobbed in the virtual streets. And you can't figure out a way to make any non-virtual money?

Jeez, man, here's an easy one: start a blog, stick up a PayPal "donate" button, post "Thedeacons's Daily Dose of Wisdom" on how to prosper in AO, and then promote the site every chance you get (like, say, in the New York Times). I'm pretty sure you could at least make enough to pay the rent.

Now, here's a hard one: take a long look at what you did to succeed in the game, and translate that into real life.

Re:This guy's broke?

[Moose4]

Actually, people have done that. There's an Asheron's Call player with the nom de plume of "Fist de Yuma" that's posted a weekly column about his doings on AC on his site for a couple years now. And yes, people donate to keep it going--although I think Fist has a job.

wow

[Suppafly]

This article just confirms my belief that mmorpg'ers are sad and pathetic.

Loser

[Schezar]

I though of the nickname "Loser" when I made the post. We didn't call him anything in college. All he ever did was play Asheron's Call. We never saw him make an effort to "interact" with "people." We didn't like him because he was not a person, he was an Asheron's Call machine.

Re:Loser

[Anonymous Coward]

Oho ya.. boy stupid me... you a super guy and he's just a slab of meat connected to a computer.

God there is no possibility he was shy.

Oho and trust me he knew how you felt about him even if you didn't call him 'loser' to his face.

Re:Loser

[Schezar]

Are you Loser?

I'm just curious.

Re:Loser

[Squidgee]

You.

Re:Loser

[AOthedeacon]

Finally someone with enlightenment. That's exactly what I've been saying bro :p

Yes I wrote lots of code

[CrazyJim0]

Some of it is in the code example above.

I have countless tools I've written along the way too.

Some comparisons

[NichG]

With a bit of reflection, I have to wonder...

Is becoming so engrossed in a game that one plays for hours on end any different than becoming engrossed in a good novel? They can both be methods of escape, social commentary literature aside. The same goes for watching a movie, or really any other form of absorbing and interacting with information that doesn't involve talking to another human face-to-face. While I realize books and movies aren't interactive, that just means that we're getting better at improving the escape experience. It used to be that one's only choice was what character to identify with (small set of game paths.. used to be pretty standard). Now, we've simply come up with ways of making paths dynamically, so there are more options.

Another aspect of this... pen and paper roleplaying. I think many people would find that less objectionable, even despite the long periods of time involved (months or even years for a set of characters to evolve), though I could be wrong about that.

Still, I find it interesting to look at the various similarities between these things, yet to find that this one particular thing is being so negatively received.

NichG

Re:Some comparisons

[CodeHog]

I think it's not that this one particular thing is negative, but that this individual is represented either by himself or the NYT as being able to barely eek out an existence (hand-to-mouth comment), but is supposedly highly-intelligent and is some star character in a role playing game. The thing at play here is that they want you to think it would be logical for someone that has such power in an online game that it would translate into power int the real world. It never will translate because the only way to become like his character Thedeacon (is it trademarked yet?) in the real (business) world is to spend at least 40 hrs a week bustin' your butt working, be it getting leads on opportunites, repairing computers, managing a McBurgerBell, not 40 hrs playing a GAME! This is what it has boiled down to for me, don't try to make me feel sympathtic to this guy's plight. He might be highly intelligent, but he can choose between playing a game that only rewards you by playing it and make a better living for himself. If he can't do that, then he's addicted and should seek help.

that everquest guy was FAT

[Anonymous Coward]

If I was that fat I might just do myself in to.

Madison, WI is *not* the middle of nowhere

[djembe2k]

Middle of nowhere? Middle of nowhere???!!!

This guy lives in Madison, Wisconsin, one of the coolest places in the world to live (speaking as somebody who moved my family just so I could be in Madison). We have 200,000 people, the state capital, one of the largest universities in the country, museums, restaurants, music, malls, traffic (sort of), sprawl (a little bit), more community and more to do than anywhere I ever lived in east cost suburbia.

Say what you want about gaming or anything else, but please stop making a big deal (all of you!) about a throw-away line about "too far from big cities", to conclude that this guy lives on 40 acres in the middle of rural South Dakota. Geez!

</RANT>

OK, South Dakotans who want to respond, feel free to rant on.

Re:Madison, WI is *not* the middle of nowhere

[FunkSoulBrother]

I'm from North Dakota, but last time I was in Madison I noticed an over-abundance of bees. Is this normal for your city? I felt like a swarm was constantly after me.

Re:Madison, WI is *not* the middle of nowhere

[Anonymous Coward]

Weren't you told NOT to take the brown acid?

Re:Madison, WI is *not* the middle of nowhere

[jafiwam]

You forgot, the best beer on the planet. A pitcher of Blonde Dopplebock can wipe away the worst week ever in no time.

Re:Madison, WI is *not* the middle of nowhere

[Noehre]

I lived in a town of 2500 in the middle of rural North Dakota.

Yeh, it pretty much sucked.

Hence, I played MUDs alot.

Re:Madison, WI is *not* the middle of nowhere

[psychalgia]

hmm, ive never been anywhere that has as many bees as wisconsin, (im from racine), but i didnt think there were all that many of them. the bastards burrow in the ground though and sneak up on you.

East Coast media conspiracy comment

[Anonymous Coward]

Nicely done -- I've been to Madison several times and I have similar observations.

*****

Related: I'd like a nickel (or even $0.02) for every time the NY Times (or LA Times) profiles someone like this in a city / village "far away from everything meaningful." Ever notice how rarely those places (nice or not) are in states contiguous to New York or California...?

Where I draw the line.

[Demon-Xanth]

A hard core gamer is very much into thier games. Much like an addict. A hard core gamer plays thier games for hours on end. Much like an addict. However, a hard core gamer KNOWS that thier games are nothing but games, and can easily seperate games from life. An addict tends to confuse the two.

---

Re:Where I draw the line.

[Guardian of Separate]

Interesting. I draw the line at the word "separate", which, incidentally, is not spelled "seperate". I could comment on your spelling of "their" as well, but seeing as you are consistent with it I will just let it slide for now.

I'm sorry, but you are the seventh poster I have had to chastise in only two days, and I haven't even been looking very hard. My quest to purge Slashdot of this evil is an uphill one, for sure.

Re:fp fags

[Anonymous Coward]

Promise?

Speaking from experience ...

[Ordieth33]

I've been in the genre, so to speak, for my fair share of time. I've been playing computer games since I was five. I taught myself to read playing Dragon Warrior and how to count by adding up my coins in Mario. As far as online games go, I've played them since their birth. I've been around in some form in The Realm, M59, UO, EQ, AO (left AC and AC2 alone ... won't buy a M$ game, sorry) and I'm currently devoting my time to Shadowbane where I run the guild Requiem. I'll be the first to admit, addiction is a *serious* issue with online games. Thankfully I have a strong grip on reality thanks to a very large social network of friends who do *not* play these games. If I've been on the computer too long they usually come to my house and kidnap me. =) However, I've been there for those 8 hour days of clearing Plane of Fear, it happens. But before you start hurling insults (especially those of you who merely troll Slashdot for 8 hours a day!!!) not everyone who devotes a lot of time to an online game are addicts or pathetic. I'll give you that there are a lot of emotionally unstable people who should not be playing these games (and they are fairly easy to spot within the games) yet I'll share with you my experience when I was playing a lot. When I was 15 I found out I had a severe case of scoliosis. They tried bracing me for over a year with no helpful effects, in fact my condition got worse. By the time I was 17 I had a 59 degree curve in my lower back and a 53 degree curve in my upper back with a 39 degree curve right at my neck. Let me assure you, this was not a pleasant experience. Surgury was the only option I had left. I was left with close to zero flexibility in my back as 90% of my vertibre are now fused together and braced by 2 titanium rods. Not to mention I was wheelchaired for 3 months and extremely weak for an entire year. I did my school work from home, but usually finished it quickly with no problem (public high school is unfortunately a joke.) This left me with a lot of time to either dull my mind watching TV, or playing with my computer. Everquest was my only outlet for meaningful social interaction, especially in the early hours of the morning while all of my "real" friends were sleeping. But I wasn't sleeping, when you can't most of your back, you don't sleep well. My character, Ordieth Lightblade, was at times a popular character. So I understand why these people play these games. Before you judge, consider that many of these "powergamers" usually fall into a few categories. 1.) Minors - I'd say the majority of power gamers are between the ages of 12-17. Yes, many many many 12 year olds play these games, sometimes with their parents. Frankly, it only takes the intelligence of a 12 year old to play EQ. Most of these kids (I was one of them, started EQ when I was 16) don't have jobs, and are not in school all that much, don't have cars, etc. Therefore they have plenty of time. 2.) Disabled/Unemployed - I'm always amazed when I start talking to people in EQ/SB at the number of unemployed people that play simply because they are either too depressed to keep looking for another crappy job or they know they can squeak out another 6 months on unemployment pay. =) As for us disabled, most are too ashamed to admit it, but there is a large group of paralyzed, impaired, deaf/dumb, etc players. Of course those of us with disabilites will be drawn to a fantasy world where everyone is the same. Everyone can talk, walk, run, be the hero, etc. I know EQ helped me during my hardest times. 3.) True Addicts: I've also met a few of these. I suppose these should almost go under disabilities, mental ones to be precise. Most of the people I find that are totally addicted are this way due to some sort of mental fixation. Where as the people in the above categories were playing for social/pass the time reasons, these people play because they have either passed out of reality into fantasy and believe this is their life, or they simply cannot function without it anymore. I m

Re:Speaking from experience ...

[Ordieth33]

Ack! Sorry for lack of paragraphing, first time posting on /. and didn't realize how lame this little text box was ... suppose I was supposed to use html to create line breaks? /sigh
Oh well, sorry bout that.

Re:Speaking from experience ...

[matt-fu]

I've been playing computer games since I was five. I taught myself to read playing Dragon Warrior and how to count by adding up my coins in Mario.

You didn't know how to read or count until after you turned five?

Engie to the rescue

[Anonymous Coward]

Agent Smith, you're so dumb. You took so long to deliver that conceited little speech of yours that my engineer team-mate had time to cast Beacon Warp on me ... byeeeeeeeeeeee

Hand-to-mouth?

[booch]

He's "trapped in a hand-to-mouth existence"? Maybe if he got off his ass and worked hard, he wouldn't be living "hand-to-mouth". Anyway, the term implies that you have to work hard for every meal. This guy definitely doesn't fit the bill.

Re:Hand-to-mouth?

[Anonymous Coward]

I know dozens of people who work their ass off everyday and live hand to mouth.

Yes, they all have university degrees and years of experience.

Nobody gives a fuck. They get their asses fired just like everyone else.

Its all about how society judge you

[CrazyJim0]

Yah it was wierd on my grades. I was in MCS. I never was assigned an advisor, and I got lost in the system there, but eventually I got to talking with the Dean and he's super nice.

In most cases, yah, just keep up with the material and the grades will come. Make sure you turn in all the assignments, even if they seem to be trivial things you've done a million times. I made the mistake of coding tons of programs on my own time, instead of focusing on homework. I guess my advice would be do homework before you do external projects.

You're right Java is very lucrative in the ability to create GUI's I created a windowing AWS GUI from scratch on C++ using virtual commands and piecing together bitmaps. So I got a horrible grade in my Java class since I never did the GUI homework. The professor never wants to hear,"Well I made an AWS from scratch, why do I prove I can use an AWS. Its assumed you can use an AWS if you've created one. Unless of course, you need to learn HCI"

Definately just do your homework, and spend your free time however you feel like it. I fought every step I was at CMU and coded a lot when I was at home because I thought it meant something.

www.geocities.com/james_sager_pa/xyzimation/xyzi m. htm

has some stuff about AWS's done in C++. I ported a AWS I coded in DJGPP for this 2d grid based MMORPG. Its a fun AWS because it shows how virtual functions are used with a GUI. It also has some easy functions to change the window/border color. My code isn't the best code to model yours after, but I do get big ideas right. The code they'll teach you in school is to be perfect to be built upon... But when you create a program that is not supposed to be built on past its current functionality, you are afforded some leeway in your coding. I liberaly use this concept, so to some my code will appear ratty and not to convention they're accustomed to.

-1?

[Anonymous Coward]

Why is parent modded -1?

It is on topic.

Ah, now I see why the poster went the route of AC - he knew it would get modded down by a 13 year old.

Declare bankruptcy?

[CrazyJim0]

My parents co-signed on the loans, then they'll be hit with my $70,000 college debt.

Re:Declare bankruptcy?

[Anonymous Coward]

so have them declare bankruptcy as well.
they wont loose the house -- you dont under bankruptcy law. withdraw everything in the bank as cash or buy a coupla SUVs with it when you declare bankruptcy. free cars + house and you can sell the cars on the side.
lifes tough kid -- you gotta push hard to move up.

Re:Declare bankruptcy?

[Anonymous Coward]

I dont think u can declare bankruptcy on college loans. but look hard for a job. with a cmu cs degree if u market urself correctly it shud be no prob.

Re:Declare bankruptcy?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can if they aren't federal loan, so what you do, is refinance your loans with those jack-ass loan-sharks that buy your loan from the federal government and then declare bankrupcy, if you're going to do so.

Re:Declare bankruptcy?

[Anonymous Coward]

Mum? Dad? You gotta declare bankruptcy. It's the expert financial advice from an AC on slashdot, so you know it's good advice.

Re:Declare bankruptcy?

[Anonymous Coward]

if you got a better idea im listening fuckwit.

Who cares!?

[Scholasticus]

Who cares? I've been playing video games since I was a fetus! My mom had Pong implanted in her uterus! And that was back when video games were hard! Not like now - you kids got it easy! You have 3D graphics, but in my day your guy was just a little square with no name or nothing! And the screens just kept getting harder and harder until you died! Just like life!

Re:Asheron's Call kiled a man... (not really)

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, it is...

And I'm glad to see you still don't take time to get to know people. At least the people playing took the time to say hello once and a while.... unlike somone else who was actually there and couldn't be bothered to even say hello to another human in the same room not 6 feet away.!

Yeah...

[nanojath]

"The more you deal with people, the more you hate people," he said. "It just feels that everybody is so asleep in this world."

Yeah, I have a tough time taking this kind of sentiment from a person spending nearly half their waking life immersed in an artificial personality in an artificial world (I find the idea that because you can act out whatever the hell impulse you want in an online environment, it is somehow more "real" than the hard-copy world, stupid and offensive).

Mr. Stenlund, meanwhile, feels trapped - trapped in a town too far from big cities where big things happen... Madison WI may not be Las Vegas but it is one of the 100 largest cities in the USA, and although I haven't lived there myself it seems like a pretty good place as far as mid-sized cities go. A quick search of past accolades netted, among others:

Ranked #1 of Small-size Cities for Creativity by The Washington Monthly, #2 among "America's Best Places to Live and Work" by Employment Review Magazine, UW-Madison Ranked 35th in the World of Top Executive Eduation Providers by the London-based Financial Times, The Most Wired City in the Country by The Media Audit and International Demographics, One of Top Five Cities for Entrepreneurial Business Growth by the National Commission on Entrepreneurship, One of America's Most Environmentally Friendly Cities by ENN.com, #3 City for Business Owners by Business Development Outlook Magazine, Best City For Quality of Life by Business Development Outlook Magazine, Top 10 Cities to Have It All by A & E Network, September, 1999, #1 Best Places to Live in America, Money magazine, 10 Most Livable Places in America The Advocate, #5 America's 10 Most Enlightened Towns, Utne Reader, #3 Safest of Nation's 100 Largest Cities Morgan Quinto Press, Best Mid-Sized City Travel Getaway Midwest Living magazine

Sounds like opportunity exists there.

Though articulate and clearly intelligent, he skipped college because he believed that school stifled creativity.

And pardon me for being an elitist, but that's a thin excuse for not getting the credentials and connections, and the attendent opportunities, that go along with getting an advanced education. The only thing that can stifle a person's creativity is that person. There are well-worn paths of least resistance in all walks of life.

I think a lot of people could get caught up in something like this, particularly at at time when the track they've chosen suddenly veers south. But at the same time, this sounds like a profile of a person who likes shortcuts and is too quick to blame his environment for what are fundamentally personal problems. Online world's are what they are because they lack or simplify the real consequences, and many of the real difficulties and complexities, of the physical world. "Success" in that context is a third-class substitute for seeking the prosperity, relationships and recognition you need in the real world.

Re:Yeah...

[RyuuzakiTetsuya]

what worries me is that he's a computer repair guy, and unless he wants to re-start his buisness here, he's goingt o have one hell of a time looking for work in his related field. I wish luck to this man. And maybe run into him? Hah, like he'lla ctually get out and ejoy Vegas...

Re:Yeah...

[thomp]

Not to mention that Madison has one of the lowest unemployment rates in the country. Plenty of tech jobs at all levels here. This guy's an ass.

Re:Yeah...

[Anonymous Coward]

I actually do live in Madison and given the description of where he lives I either lived in the same apartment complex or in one of the adjacent ones until Nov when I bought a house. Anyway I don't know where the hell they get this far away from big city crap. 1st off Madison's population is around 200K w/o the uni which adds another 40K(not to mention the atmosphere/opportunities that a school that size provides). 2nd it's ~60 miles from Milwuakee, ~90 miles from Chicago, and ~250 miles from Minneapolis, exactly how do you get closer w/o actually living in a big city? 3rd there are a ton of jobs in Mad town with the ceavat that Madison is an extremely well-educated population with 1 in 2 adults having a 4 year degree vs 1 in 4 in the gen pop. But the kid grew up here and *knew* that a college degree is pretty much a prereq to a decent job and was nevertheless too *creative* to be burdened by college, however apparently not *creative* enough to make a go of something else. Gimme a break I'm from a dumping little town in northern wi(superior) and I manage to due just fine in madison. I know a ton of guys like this ie too *creative* to put down the bong and get up from the CRT/TV to go to class for a couple hours a day.

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[The Phantom Buffalo]

Playing a video game is no more or less a skill than any sport. Any twelve year old should be able to throw a basketball into the hoop, be able to hit a baseball with a bat. If you don't consider video games a skill, you can't consider playing any games a skill, without being a hypocrite.

Vegas

[ektor]

I think he has thought of some way to employ his wife in something that would provide more than enough money. Hey, it's even mentioned in the article...

1. Marry blonde
2. Move to Vegas
3. ...
4. Profit!

Loser is the opposite of winner...

[nanojath]

Looser is the opposite of tighter.

The scary thing is, we're going to be seeing many, many more people like him as these games become more popular and our society becomes even more disconnected.

On the other hand, who cares? It will reduce traffic density and free up the job market. I can't wait until "wirehead" electrical stimulation of pleasure centers and fully immersive virtual reality become commonplace - I look forward to driving through the empty streets, as 90% of America retreats into a quiescent and obese stupor.

Re:Loser is the opposite of winner...

[Anonymous Coward]

Melniboneans

Re:Loser is the opposite of winner...

[Da VinMan]

Gee, now if we could just hook 'em all up to energy collection devices while they're sitting around tuned into their games. Then they could power all the devices we "non-wireheads" use.

Where have I heard that before? Hmmm...

Here's looking forward to freely moving traffic! ;)

Opportunity is won, not found or given.

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, just look at our hardworking President.

Priority out of WHACK!

[PSL]

The couple complains about their meager income and not being able to go out. He complains about the dullness of the 21st century real-world. Yet this fool is spending more time playing this game than you typically would at work. He should spend more time running his personal business and maybe he would have more money and less AO time to realize everything the real-world has to offer.

thedeacon's response on AO forums...

[Anonymous Coward]

Let me tell you something. The article about me written by Seth Schiesel, AKA Amis (his ingame name) is such a roving pack of lies slandering the person I really am in real life that I'm flat out disgusted by the whole thing.

right now I'm too stunned and upset at the amount of lies, miscontext, misquotes and outright slander posted on the article to even log in.

I'll be filing a lawsuit against the New York Times for slander, as many of the things put in that article about my real life (and even ingame) are so horribly untrue or twisted and the truth stretched to paint me in a much much different light than the person I really am.

He paints me as a shy, akward, socially inept reclusive nerd which is such a contrast to the person I really am. I make racy jokes, but he paints me as a virtual rapist. I'm broke in RL, but he paints me as a suicidal, emotionally unstable man that lives in the slums (I live in a good neighborhood) and can't afford to buy food. This article is absolutely ruinous to myself, my business, my future. It's the lowest form of slander imaginable.

Even the pictures used were horrible. The first is dark and brooding and in the second picture I was about to bust out laughing, which also looks a hell of alot like crying and is just a flat out BAD pic.

Please keep any jokes off this thread as I feel serious about this. I can see some pretty horrid real life repercussions as a result of this article.

So much of what I said to him in the four days that he was here was taken FAR out of context and quotes that I had supposedly said were either entirely made up or the wording was changed to change the focus of what I was saying.

Sound familiar? Well about a month ago, another NY Times reporter by the name of Jayson Blair did the exact same thing. I just never had any idea something like this would happen to me. He told me that he was doing a general article about the community of AO through my eyes. Instead, a pack of lies gets slammed on the world's largest newspaper about me. The entire focus of the article was misrepresented.

The writer, Seth Schiesel is a reporter for the NY Times and his ingame character is named "Amis", a high level Omni MP. The article was so vicious and untrue at some points that it seems to have been written with malice in mind.

I'm so humiliated at some of the things said in that article. it shocks and amazes me how someone can so callously and deliberately say such untruths. I'm painted as a socially inept reject that never leaves his home, which is the opposite of who I really am.

It's one thing to flame someone ingame, but this goes way beyond that and extends into my personal life.....worst of all, 80% of what he says is an outright lie. The other 20% is an exaggeration or was taken out of context.

While it may not seem bad to many of you, if you knew me in real life, you'd know why I was so upset right now.

thanks alot Amis (his ingame name). Never figured to be stabbed in back like this.

__________________
Thedeacon, lvl 200 MP
Thedeacon1 lvl140ish enforcer
Xcelsius lvl 167 MA

These are my only characters atm .

Nanomage: The OTHER other white meat

Corinthians: "Thedeacon = 1900+ posts, 98% of them pure troll goodness."

Please do not send me random tells asking me to fly out and buff you. It's disruptive and inconsiderate to what I'm doing. I am not a walking, talking buff terminal and really do have better things to do than fly out to buff you or wait for you to fly to me. if you see me, I'll happily buff you. if you contact me because you don't feel like finding an mp in your zone, I'll /ignore you. I also don't give away money, I give knowledge, which in the end is far mor valuable. BUT I'M STILL A NICE GUY. REALLY I AM

VOTE THEDEACON FOR CLAN PRESIDENT!! OMG!

SHOW YOUR SUPPORT FOR FIXING THE META-PHYSICISTS' PLIGHT! JOIN US FOR 'BLACK SUNDAY'

Re:thedeacon's response on AO forums...

[Anonymous Coward]

edit: source is http://forums.anarchy-online.com/showthread.php?s= 23c7115f517333a7663fa2503ae8051f&threadid=1434 17

Re:thedeacon's response on AO forums...

[WildBeast]

He should've known how journalists act. They're looking for what they want, if you don't give it to them they'll make it up anyway.

Re:thedeacon's response on AO forums...

[johnnycab2000]

quote:

Originally posted by Amis
Deacon, I don't think the story casts you in a negative light at all, and it certainly was not meant to. As you know, I play this game a lot too. I think the response of the community so far, all of these congratulatory posts, demonstrates that far from being a "negative" portrayal, it tries to show how much you mean to this community and how much this community means to you. I hope you come to see it that way.

your friend,
amis

Endquote

Seth, you wrote so many lies in that article that I had to put on hip waders to get through it all. Literally everything you put in there about my real life was taken out of context.

"Blue collar side of Madison"? "Adult bookstores"? Excuse me, while there's nothing wrong with blue collar type work, since when did you learn so much about the city of Madison to know what side of town is blue collar? And why was there a pressing need to mention that there is an adult bookstore FIVE MILES from my home?

Look at everything you wrote. You see how it all has a downward slant to it?

A journalist with integrity would have written something like

"Despite hardship, the Stenlunds maintain a loving marriage and Richard extends his warm and friendly personality to the gameworld of Anarchy Online, where he spends a considerable portion of his time helping and coaching new players become acclimated to such a complex social heirarchy".

That's complimentary.

Instead, you take a comment that my wife said and take it out of context. "You are a pervert." Now what she REALLY said was "You're a pervert." Then she put a hand on my shoulder and said "No, I'm just kidding, he's really a good guy."

So you took the negative and cut the positive. Look at the comments my mother made. She talked to you about my background as an actor, an entertainer and how moving to Las Vegas would help getme started once more in the field of entertainment. What parts did you use? The parts that made me look like a social reject.

Since your writing skills are amatuer at best, perhaps you would like another example of how to write a complimentary article?

"The Stenlunds reside in a nicely decorated two bedroom apartment on Madison's east side, where they own and operate a small computer repair business. When business is slow, Richard passes the time posting humorous or insightful comments on the Anarchy Online message board or logs into the game to assist his guild, Storm, with raids or player versus player combat, the latter of which he has established a name for himself in. But what may be surprising to some, is that he is able to separate his online persona from his work life and does not let the game distract him from his job functions."

And then you could have included comments I made about releasing the ID. Instead, you misquote me as saying that I hate people, etc.

Even my goal of moving to Las Vegas was taken out of context. As I told you many many times, we're moving to Vegas not only for the job opportunities, but also for a new form of entertainment, to actually get away from inactive hobbies like video games and television and really enjoy life firsthand.

As you saw when you were here Amis, we don't sit around the house when there's something to do. Sarah and I were the ones dragging you places and actually wore *you* out. After you retired to the Hotel room, we were out at the Karaoke bar and dancing the night away in a club, while you could talk about nothing but playing AO and how you missed AO.

As for the amount of time that I spend online, you had told me specifically that that would not be the focus of the article, yet there it is at the top.

Let me explain again, as you may have forgotten, that I don't watch television.....at all. Anarchy Online is my television and the time I spend in ao rivals the time that the average american watches television. Yet the way you paint it makes it appear that I'm 'escaping society'.

You call m

Re:thedeacon's response on AO forums...

[talks_to_birds]

ahem..

You *still* need to get a life.

t_t_b

Re:thedeacon's response on AO forums...

[Cereal Box]

"I'll be filing a lawsuit against the New York Times for slander"

Looks like Thedeacon knows where his next check is coming from!

Re:thedeacon's response on AO forums...

[fasura]

I'll be filing a lawsuit against the New York Times for slander,

Personally I'd start a libel action, there's a possibility you could win that.

Re:thedeacon's response on AO forums...

[LazloToth]

Proving malice is a bitch. Showing that someone wrote with reckless disregard for the truth with the intent to do harm can be difficult if the writer can back up even a part of his work with facts. The gamer's online records can be brought into court, as can any number of other factual items having to do with this gamer's lifestyle.

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[tomstdenis]

I'm sorry but most physical sports like baseball, basketball, et al. require a bit more concentration and skill then it takes to click a mouse on the screen.

Put it another way, if gaming skills and sport skills are in the same ballbark then I could have a NBA career by now.... I mean I certainly can frag like the best of them.

Admitedly for different reasons, I am against people who solely focus on playing sports. [e.g. sacrifice school for sports].

I guess what I realized today is that the real "skill" is being able to lead a balanced life. E.g. not shut out life to play a RPG but not burn text books to play hockey.

Tom

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[tomstdenis]

Ok when I said "skill" I meant a realistic and useful skill. Being able to play the piano is useful not only because it has medical benefits [can lower blood pressure if you play decent :-)] but also has been known to be correlated [though perhaps even a cause] for higher academia.

I mean by your logic we should idolize people who can crush Canadian Housing Bricks on their foreheads. I mean there *is* a skill to that too....

Some lacky who can point and zap with a busto-ray is a person who has played far too many video games and should take up a new pursuit.

Tom

MPOG'rs are not celeb's

[M3wThr33]

Those people are not hardcore gamers. They are casual gamers to the utmost degree. You never have to worry about new challenges, or working hard. After so long, it becomes routine for those who enjoy repetition.
Besides, I know dozens and dozens of people like him. "Online, I am cool amongst a 100 or so people, but in real life I work with a home-run computer business."
Why the hell does the NY Times choose an article like THIS? Are they THAT desperate for news?

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[Requiem]

Skill at video games is mostly reaction speed, and knowledge of how to exploit the game's constraints. Is that skill? Well yes, but barely.

Best part

[M.C. Hampster]

I love the caption under the photo:

WARRIOR - Accompanied by three minions, Thedeacon, with gun, prepares to attack a monster, left, in the game Anarchy Online.

It reads like it's from The Onion or something.

Oh great!

[sirgoran]

His hope is to relocate to Las Vegas.

Yeah, Smart move. NOT.

Having lived in Nevada for 8 years, Vegas is the last place someone with OCD should live. That is, I'm guessing he has OCD. Anyone that spends that much time playing a game to the detriment of his business, and the financial health of his family I'll take a chance and label him with OCD.

I see him being on a future episode of COPS or a stain on the sidewalk from being a complete and total failure.

For crying out loud! Step away from the keyboard and get a freaking job!

-Goran

Re:Oh great!

[Surreal_Streaker]

Having lived in Nevada for 8 years, Vegas is the last place someone with OCD should live. That is, I'm guessing he has OCD. Anyone that spends that much time playing a game to the detriment of his business, and the financial health of his family I'll take a chance and label him with OCD.

OCD. OCD. OCD. OCD. OCD. OCD. OCD. OCD. ...

Believe it or not!

[drjzzz]

The New York Times, recently shown to publish made-up stories, publishing a story about a guy who spends a lot of his life in a made-up world... Looks like they've stumbled across a whole new news industry.

And since when was relaxing a bad thing?

[TyrranzzX]

Just because I don't spend 24/7 studying something useful to (insert person telling me I should spend 24/7 doing something useful here) because I like to relax doesn't mean I'm stupid or wasting my time. Given, everything needs to be in balance with other things, but just because this guy comes home from work, spends 7 hours a night playing games doesn't make him evil.

Think about it, 8 hours work, 7 hours game, 1 hour driving to and fro work, sexxoring, and eating, 8-ish hours sleep, more to do on the weekends. No worse than the sheep that sit and watch tv from when they get home to the point where they sleep.

Gaming is actually immensly better for most people than watching tv Watching TV is inherently an anti-social activity (are you talking when the godbox is?), it changes the way you think and subliminally as well as consciencly programms you to do what corperations want you to do. Look around on google for articles, forced laughter during sitcoms isn't there for effect; it's to form your sense of humor.

Playing online games actually gets you to communicate with other people, in my case over voice chat but there's also text and in-game stuff (like jumping up and down on their head). Not only that but you're thinking, planning, scheming etc. The only problem that can be forseen with videogames is addiction and overstimulation. Addiction can occur and you just don't want to stop having fun, and overstimulation can occur at the same time and, when combined with poor eating and sleeping habits can severly burnout a person.

He said he's going to sue the NY over this article

[Anonymous Coward]

http://forums.anarchy-online.com/showthread.php?s= 3b6b35399ed2b05ab3ce0837043b39bd&threadid=1434 28

Another Jayson Blair?

-k

Thedeacon is a scum-bag

[The Evil Couch]

Once he found out that my best friends were not only an in-game couple, but an actual married couple, he harassed them for about a week about getting together in real life for a foursome with him and his wife.

I really wouldn't call him a celebrity, virtually everyone that I knew in AO hated the guy.

Re:Thedeacon is a scum-bag

[Zane0]

I seriously doubt that couch, and everyone in AO likes the deacon. Except for you, it seems.

Re:Thedeacon is a scum-bag

[Anonymous Coward]

No, it's not just Couch. I didn't like the deacon or his footness, either. And though I didn't personally see it or the logs of it, I've heard of him harassing people before now.

Re:Thedeacon is a scum-bag

[Anonymous Coward]

you must be on crack. The deacon has hit on every girl on rubi ka at least once. and most of those probably weren't even realg irls. I wouldnt be suprised if all of the women in AO hated his guts.

Re:Thedeacon is a scum-bag

[Anonymous Coward]

I seriously think AO should remove his account and put his credit id on blacklist.

Same problem with

[geekoid]

D&D
A mental unblalnced guy, with parents who put him under tremndous pressure plays a few game of DnD, then tries to kill himself, D&D is evil and destroying lives!

However, A guy obssessed with golf, kills himself because he can't lower his handicapp, no one even mentions golf in a negativly.

Yes, I grew up in the 70s playing D&D, how can you tell? ;)

Re:Same problem with

[hetairoi]

I think that's because golf is a game designed to make the players want to kill themselves. It's just accepted by society that golfers are eventually either going to have heart attacks or go insane and kill themselves and any caddy within 300 feet.

Yes, I'm a golfer.......just one more round, I can bring my handicap down with just one .. more .. round.....

Re:Same problem with

[Zebbers]

please find me someone who did the golf thing

i agree that most correlations are stupid, but you too pulled that out of your ass

Re:Asheron's Call kiled a man... (not really)

[zebs]

I never liked Loser. I wonder why...

He was better at it than you?

Poor

[aef123]

The article constantly points out how poor he and his wife are. It also tells how he spends an average of 7 hours a day playing Anarchy Online. Maybe there's some correlation between these two facts?

Re:He said he's going to sue the NY over this arti

[Anonymous Coward]

Oops.

Here's a working link: http://forums.anarchy-online.com/showthread.php?s= 3b6b35399ed2b05ab3ce0837043b39bd&threadid=1434 17

-k

Does this guy REALLY exist?

[ZoneManSPW]

After all, it is a NY Times article...

Re:Asheron's Call kiled a man... (not really)

[Sabalon]

Knew someone like this in college - greasy hair, white skin, toothpick.

Played muds - all day. slept maybe 5 hours a day. Failed out with a .3 GPA. Appealed and was let back in. Failed out again.

He ran off to piss once - so we had his character drop everything and attack the guards or something.

Also, found that the MUD he played, if you connected and typed the username, when it prompted you for the password, you just left it there and it would think you were already connected (c'mon...we were trying to help the kid.)

Probably a bright kid - but had his priorities all messed up.

give him a few years...

[gosand]

Have you ever taken a seat next to a beautiful woman in a bar and said "Hey, Baby, my slashdot karma is excellent, mostly the result of moderations to my posts!" It could be the start of something beautiful. Be sure to let us know where you plan to try it so we can all be there to watch.

Give him several years, so he can legally enter a bar first.

Register... Register

[Anonymous Coward]

Will the slashdot-money-whores-department ever learn?

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[@madeus]

Skill at video games is mostly reaction speed, and knowledge of how to exploit the game's constraints. Is that skill? Well yes, but barely.

*Exactly* the same could be said of martial arts combat (fast reaction times, exploitation of opponents weakneses), and it would be just as wrong.

It doesn't sound like you've played many modern games (if you have done, then you've not been getting much out of them if your not playing them tatically and just trying to 'aim & shoot really fast' the only people your ever going to beat are newbies). You have to use your brain in order to become a master of these games, and you have to practice, _a lot_.

Just ask anyone who's won a gaming competition, ask them how much they need to practice, read about them, then, if it's so easy, go beat them at their chosen game, have a few weeks practice, if you think that's all you need.

It takes as much practice to learn how to snap kick as it does to rocket jump (actually, it took me a little bit longer to master effective rocket jumping in Marathon).

It's amazingly arbitrary to consider something 'not a skill' just because it involves a computer. Forgive me for being presumptious, but you sound a lot like someone who's passed over the era of modern gaming and doesn't do it themselves, but think they know what it's about from the few games they've played (you sound a lot like my now 30 year old flatmate, who comes from a generation that just missed out on gaming as a youthful pasttime by just a few years[1]). He's played a few games, but doesn't know a single UT, CS, or Q3A map, because he's never really been into games in the way that those slightly younger than him are (I think the last game he played was The Dig).

[1] I, like most gamers I know, am in my mid twenties and a child of the Sonic generation.

University?

[MikeFM]

I'll do that when I find a decent University that will sell me my degree for $50 down and $30 a month subscription fee for my classes. :)

I don't know about that...

[Simehiri]

One of my best friends on Anarchy Online sold her 165 character on E-bay for $350 after she got bored with it. 165 doesn't even really take too long to achieve and she didn't have any of the ultra rare items. I've seen the level 200 characters with all the rare gear go for over $500. Pretty damn good I'd say, considering she had a blast playing the game. How many idle hobbies pay off that much in the end?

Re:I don't know about that...

[Anonymous Coward]

OR you could get a REAL JOB for 2 weeks and have that much

Re:I don't know about that...

[Simehiri]

But a job isn't a liesure activity or entertainment. Please, be reasonable. I'm talking about a pasttime, not a job.

TV

[Anonymous Coward]

Is this really such a bad alternative to watching television? Look how many people go home and watch 4 or 6 hours of television in a night, and nobody seems to have a problem with that.

SAD

[Anonymous Coward]

Seasonal Affective Disorder. This guy probably gets depressed by our oh-so-wonderful winters up here. He probably drinks a lot too. At least summer is coming up and that's when all the awesome drinking parties start! Did I say I like drinking? Oh well, better sip that brandy before the clock before I sober up from last night. Oh... and play The Sims Online... or maybe Diablo II...

Fuck it, I'm firing up the playstation. And pouring another drink.

Clickable Link

[Jack Zombie]

No registration required link

Who's to say Virtual isn't real or is Bad....

[Almandris]

.. when you are dealing with real people.

With the advent of MMORPG, and On-Line gamming in general, there is another consideration for everyone who is talking about games. The definition of community. This article touches on the fact that the person as the character still interacts with real people and talks to them. This is not the fact that they physically interact, but the whole interaction of a community and communication.

We are talking about the change of a "Real" society to a "Virtual" society. In both cases you are interacting with real people. You talk to them ,you have to deal with them and in most cases you do things with them. The only difference is the mode of interaction. Instead of sitting down at a table talking to each other and playing a game of cards, game of chess, family or group game; you are individually sitting down at computers talking to each other, playing a computer game, any MMORPG or community based On-Line game. If you never interact with anyone while doing this then there is a difference, but the whole community interaction is almost exactly the same. You can make friends with people or learn that you really are not friends with someone when you are talking to them over a card table or over a computer connection. Are the situations identical... NO, but they are similar in the aspects of interaction... the major difference being what can happen physically. Both interactions can involve personal or intellectual content and can increase your personal "growth" if they are productive. There are a lot of "unproductive" conversations that happen every day that will never matter the next day regardless if your at a card table, at your computer or at your local bar.

Lots of hobbies that people have are just to give someone something to do.... some of them are self gratifying some are just to "waste time" and some 'might' be used in the future. I actually look at computer games as a hobby of mine... sometimes I spend a lot of time on them and sometimes I don't. Minus the personal interaction, the people I know from around the world and the country, there is a lot of things that will not help me with my day to day activities, but I can tell you that interacting with people is a lot easier on-line than in IRL and interacting with people on-line has helped me with interacting with people IRL. I have seen people work through problems talking on-line as well as IRL, both ways its mental change.

With the introduction of the internet to the world the whole definition of community has changed, or multiple definitions are being created, and I personally see a lot of people just really don't like that or don't want to deal with it. Some benefit from it and some donâ(TM)t. Real life is that way also. I see little difference in the end.

Re:Who's to say Virtual isn't real or is Bad....

[Anonymous Coward]

Hit the nail on the head! Yea, we could talk about the addictive aspects or the fact the guy is a bit arrogant, and probably not as smart as the article claims him to be -- but so can the nytimes. Slashdot should discuss how this is the closest thing to something in a Stephenson or Gibson novel.

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[@madeus]

I do agree we shouldn't idolize them (unless, you know, they are _really_ good ;).

Karting, Paintball, Snowboarding and learning Magic Tricks aren't in themselves that useful either, but they still have skill involved.

Doing them to an acceptable 'competative' level is not the hardest things in the world (not as hard as say, learning a musical instrument) but it's quite similar to getting a good level of skill in a multiplayer game (like Unreal Tournament or Counter Strike), in that it can take a similar amount of time.

I think games are going to keep being more interesting, you can already hide in the swamp/rubble/long grass/on the cliff, choose weapon types that have different weights, reload times, clip sizes, impacts and armour types with different stenghts and styles - the weight of which effects your overall movement speed and aiming time [i.e. the time it takes for your recticle to stettle]). It can take quite a while to find your personal favorite weapons and develop tactics for a game (both generic tactics and map specific ones).

Both Ghost Recon and True Combat (the Q3A mod) are good examples of this (the are much less 'run around in your face quick fire that rocket' than Q3A, UT or even CS, and they rely really heavily on team work).

For example...

[DaveOf9thKey]

I can't imagine anything I can do here in Washington D.C. that I could not have easily done in Madison.

For example, you can't get within 500 yards of the White House in either Washington or Madison...

Married?

[Anonymous Coward]

"It surprises the hell out of me that he's married."

Most anyone who's been married for more than 5 years wouldn't be that surprised.

Re: Married?

[dave_mcmillen]

"It surprises the hell out of me that he's married."

Most anyone who's been married for more than 5 years wouldn't be that surprised.

Touche'. I guess I was just thinking that his wife would have to be crazy to hook up with someone with this lifestyle, but you're quite right that they may have met long before all this. Love, loyalty . . . Maybe she's a saint. Maybe money's not important to them. Maybe it's none of my business.

Re: Married?

[Anonymous Coward]

Unbelievable.

If someone were to write an article about your life, what would we be saying about you?

Anyone can take a page full of facts and distort them to their own ends.

Talk to your local politician for clarification of distortion.

Re: married?

[anngwish]

I REALLY need to respond to all the guys who were shocked that he was married: hard-core gamers can and do get chicks. I'm of the ovarian persuasion (and neither fat NOR ugly, thank you, Anonymous Coward), and my fiance and I (while not online gamers) are both hard-core pen and paper role-players, and I wouldn't love my man nearly as much if he weren't a gamer geek. Hell, we'd both probably be hard-core online gamers, too, if there were more hours in the day, but with so many AD&D and White Wolf books to read we've no time for other pursuits. Thedeacon's wife runs his computer business with him, so what makes you think she isn't sympathetic to (if not actively involved in) his hobbies? Just because chicks who like gamers are rare, doesn't mean we don't exist...

the NYT point of view

[khallow]

Thedeacon is a celebrity. Mr. Stenlund, meanwhile, feels trapped - trapped in a town too far from big cities where big things happen, trapped in a hand-to-mouth existence, trapped in a mean little culture of cheap thrills and fast-food television.

I think this summarizes the NYT view on everything outside of New York City. I happen to be a little confused as to why they don't think it applies to New York City as well... I guess they live in a different "reality".

Re:the NYT point of view

[Anonymous Coward]

They do live in a different "reality." A far superiour reality according to them.

Re:the NYT point of view

[khallow]

They do live in a different "reality." A far superiour reality according to them.

Well, that explains the article. Wonder how hard it would be to socially engineer a hoax through NYT? Eg,

"Cy Kotic, mild-mannered Burger King manager from Des Moines, Iowa by day, evil, child-molesting blade singer by night. 'I hate this small town! They're all freaks!' Mr. Kotic exclaims."

What a pathetic LOSER

[Ruger]

Whaa, whaa, whaa. This loser is so typical of the so many MMO Gamers when he talks about how, âoe⦠in A. O. you can really let your true character out. If I want to be a pervert, I am able to do that in A. O. and be a pervert right off the bat." Thatâ(TM)s total BS. The only reason he can be that way online is because there are no consequences. Heâ(TM)s safe and sound, sitting at his keyboard pretending to be something he doesnâ(TM)t have the gonads for in real life.

Ruger

Fortunate for the NY Times....

[telstar]

"Even as a child, Mr. Stenlund was not very outgoing, according to his mother, Marge Jarrells."

• Boy, the NYTimes sure lucked out on this one. All they probably had to do was come up from the basement to ask his Richard's mom what he was like as a child. Seriously, does it strike anyone else as funny that they're profiling an antisocial introvert and they're asking his mom what he was like as a kid?
• 
  
  He claims that his problem is that he doesn't live near a big city, where big things happen. Well newsflash ... big cities have lots of people ... and it's the PEOPLE that make things happen. If he's unable to function with the population of Madison, he'd get eaten alive trying to function in New York. He's already decided that everybody is phony and not worth interracting with.
  
  Stop blaming society. Stop blaming misfortune. Stop blaming location. Get off your ass, sell your computer, cancel your AO membership, and go get a job. Whatever you do ... DON'T REPRODUCE. The last thing Madison, WI or any other city in this country needs is this genetic mess perpetuating itself.
  
  The most ironic part of this whole story is that he'd probably be content playing video games as a career. Well, he's moving to one of the 11 states (Nevada) that forbids players from collecting price money in fee-based tournaments. At least he won't have a problem living out his foot fetish.

Re:Fortunate for the NY Times....

[Anonymous Coward]

I agree completely. I agree most emphatically with the "DON'T REPRODUCE!" part of your statement. There is a very good biological reason this guy stays in the basement. The _only_ way humanity survives is through well-adjusted, productive members of society. People who take responsibility for themselves. People probably like you, me and a lot of the people on slashdot. For the good of us all (a.k.a the planet) this guy needs to stay in his basement by himself.

--habit

Re:Fortunate for the NY Times....

[AOthedeacon]

Oh yeah, I could be like all the "hip" kids and speculate about everyone on such happening news sites such as "slashdot". you guys are the very definition of 'geek', 'social outcast' or 'nerd'. Who the fuck are you to try and flame someone?

I hadn't heard of this site before someone sent me a link today and now I see why.

Let me break it down for you.

Use your head, man. this is the New York Times. Ever hear of Jayson Blair? The times has become about as reliable as the Weekly World News. Three years from now we'll all be saying "Say, i heard Satan just gave birth to twin batboys! It must be true, cuz I read it in the Times!"

The article was a sham. My mother never said that and 99% of the article was a fabrication made up by Seth Schiesel, AKA "Amis" (his ingame name). He had a beef with me over an article of his from October 2002, so this was his way of exacting revenge. And here, you naive twits buy into it.

And you know the funniest part? You try to pick at me with some weak ass flames when you guys.........fucking play with linux all night long. And then frequent a Linux devoted website and.....talk about Linux some more before tweaking your Linux rigs. Um, hypocrite anyone?

Geek of a different color is a geek nonetheless.

but here I'm a business owner (oh and if you believe the 'hand to mouth' poorman bull, please observe the 700 dollar leather chair and the 400 dollar monitor in the picture and please feel free to come by my place and I'll show you exactly how much cash I make. Care to play big bank versus little bank?

Right now, cash is tight because we're moving to Las Vegas and must furnish a new home (upwards of 5-6000 dollars).

And why are we moving to Las Vegas? Well for one, I have a history in acting and stand up comedy and the only opportunity in that regard in Madison is a single dingy little club.

And for two? I'm a fast paced person. I like the big lights, the big city, always open, always someplace to go atmosphere in Vegas.

So use your fucking head next time and don't believe everything you read on the Times, dumbass.

You may now return to your regularly scheduled debate about Microsoft or whatever you dorks argue about here. You don't roll in my circles, little bitch.

Re:Fortunate for the NY Times....

[Anonymous Coward]

God your an ugly nigger. Now, fuck off, I don't want to hear about you again.

Next!

yes, that was me

[CrazyJim0]

I wrote the shard bot, and I paid the guy who mad e ACtool 10% of all my profits.

Turbine changed the desert spawn after the shardbot became popular :P

Re:yes, that was me

[Big_Breaker]

Ok if there was any question before that answered it. I can vouch for CrazyJim's coding skills.

You shouldn't have a hard time getting a job. Remember "What about Bob?" Baby steps! Baby step to the resume; baby step to the code portfolio, baby step to high paying job!

Seriously to all the doubters this guy wrote the pinnacle of all macros. Perhaps later ones were more impressive but those were only possible because of what Cam did to upgrade ACTool's functionality (basically the plug-in functions).

Given the tech at the time your macro was astounding. PS I graduated from MIT with a degree in EECS so I know a thing or two about code and what it takes to be good (I'm only so so). You should be earning a good living!

Bringing it back on topic it begs the question why you don't write code for REAL bots rather than virtual ones!

Hehe...

[Simehiri]

Beacon warp, great tool. I just wish there were more Engineers around to actually use it.

What's your beef with music?

[DaveOf9thKey]

Don't retreat to the electronic anaesthetics. TV, computer games, music - all these exist in some part to desensitize you to the world around you and the people you live near.

Okay, I understand your beef television and gaming, but music? How is music desensitizing? If anything, music can make you more aware of the world around you, especially if you're making the music yourself.

We may ridicule the Japanese for sticking us with karaoke, but they have the right idea. Music is not a tool given only to the elite and the superstars of the world. It's for everyone, and the more people we have making music, the better off we are as a society. There is plenty of scientific proof out there that music education is good for developing kids. Why do you think people are trying so hard to save the disappearing arts departments in schools all over America? Music is good for you.

Far be it from me to tell any man how to live his life, but think about it -- if this guy spent 7 hours a day playing a guitar or a piano instead of a video game, he would develop an appreciable skill that has potential to bring him real-world recognition and perhaps some income. (Unless he signs with an RIAA label, of course, but that's certainly not a musician's only option.) He'd also develop a more rounded and less pessimistic view of humanity. Think about it.

Re:What's your beef with music?

[nightsweat]

I have no beef with playing music. However, I do know peopel who go home, toss on the headphones and their 300 CD changer and aren't heard from again until the next morning.

All things in moderation.

Positive Contribution

[cyranoVR]

My initial reaction was "this guy is a big-time loser." But then I thought about his story a little more deeply...

First of all, his failiure in Real Life was probably inevitable - after all, it is fairly clear from the article that his AO addiction followed his failiure, not the other way around. He encountered failure, and chose to escape it through online gaming.

Considering this, his situation is actually very similar - almost identical - to thousands (millions?) of other Americans - except that in his case you substitute

"watches daytime TV all day"

"is drunk of his ass all day"

"sends spam emails all day"

with

"plays a MMORPG all 7 hours a day."

Therefore, you have to recognize that at the very least his chosen activity is on the whole a positive, not negative, force. Sure, as its not helping him improve his Real Life (not yet anyway), but at least he is enriching others' lives through his contribution to AO. He's helping to make the game more enjoyable for dozens, hundreds or thousands of other people - therefore having a positive impact on people around him, however small.

If more unemployed disillusioned types played online games all day instead of getting drunk and beating their kids, America might actually be a slightly better place.

Fatter and pastier skinned, yes, but still slightly better.

Re:Positive Contribution

[Subpop]

This is not the worst of all possible reactions to failure. At one point though, just as the alcoholic or tv soap opera addicts must, they must admit to themselves that it is the real world that matters the most. He cannot cure his failure or ability to deal with failure by playing a game (drinking, shopping etc...). Everyone must deal with the Real World until they are at the comfort level they percieve that will be best for them. For some type A personalities this may be an ultimate quest for wealth, while for others it may just be enought to put food on the table, roof over their head and 13 dollars a month for AO. This cannot be accomplished sticking his head in the sand....computer.

Thanks for the backup

[CrazyJim0]

Some people don't realize there are people like me out there. Qualified workers, who don't know anyone in the buisness to network them in.

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[CmdrObvious]

Clarification:
Fourth, if you could wipe your ass with one square no matter how messy, someone would interview you.

is that one ply or multi-ply?
CMDR Obvious

Profile of a Hard-Core Gamer?

[telstar]

Maybe they should've waited until after he moved to Vegas to see how hard-core he really is...

Advice for Mr. Stenlund, who hates the "false"

[Zhe Mappel]

"I think people are generally false. Even sitting here with you, we are putting on a front. But in A. O. you can really let your true character out. If I want to be a pervert, I am able to do that in A. O. and be a pervert right off the bat."

I grok that perv stuff, baby. Still, rumor has it the Internet will allow you to be a pervert without paying monthly fees. Also, you won't have to wear robes or carry a staff around, and you can accomplish it in somewhat less than 7 hours per day.

So addicts are stupid?

[DaveOf9thKey]

High intelligence would be realizing that spending an avg of 7 hours a day on the computer playing video games is probably why your computer repair/building/card swapping business is bust and you're broke.

If John Belushi was so intelligent, how come he didn't know enough to stop snorting coke?

This guy is an addict, plain and simple. The celebrity he has inside this virtual world makes him feel good, so he self-medicates for seven hours a day. Addiction is more than capable of trumping high intelligence. There are lots of really bright people at your local AlAnon meeting.

The difference

[autechre]

Some people have been questioning the difference between gaining skill in a video game, and being somewhat obsessive about gardening, or some sport. I realized it the other day, and that's when I stopped playing PSO.

Barring some tragic accident, the instruments that I play, the cooking skills that I learn, and the martial arts that I practice will continue. They have been around for hundreds of years (at least). These skills will also continue to be a part of me for the rest of my life, assuming I keep up with them a little, and again, barring a serious accident.

Games like PSO and UO are different. These games will be around for a few years at most. Since the Dreamcast version of PSO is still limping along, we could maybe even call it 5 years. Yes, some of the skills you get in playing one game transfer to another, but you still have to start out at level 1 with nothing. Your "skills" and "accomplishments" are relevant only as long as the whims of (largely) a bunch of schoolchildren deem them to be so.

Don't misunderstand. I love to play video games...too much. I love a good story, and view a video game as a valid means of getting that story to me, just as much as a good book. But I realized that PSO was not like that; it was breaking my "rules", my reason for playing a game. I had seen all of the plot long ago (save for small updates made only very rarely). It was just repetition now, similar to practicing martial arts (outside of class), but it would all be gone in a few years.

So rather than spend 1600 hours getting to level 200 (actual numbers for one guy on a message board I used to moderate), I stopped. It's easier since the GameCube is in my brother's room (he bought it). I told him to use my characters as he sees fit. I was tired of PSO invading all of my thoughts, keeping me from sleep, and generally making me a less interesting person by absorbing my life.

For those who are deep into such territory, try taking a week off. Totally disconnect; no message boards, no talking about it, nothing. And don't just watch TV instead. Try to remember other things that (used to?) interest you. You might find it's something like waking up.

Not surprising the article makes him look bad...

[Maul]

There is nothing interesting about "struggling computer repairman plays Anarchy Online for entertainment instead of watching TV." But the NY Time fixes that by twisting the actual facts around and making this guy look like as much of a loser/psychopath as much as possible.

Many, many, many people watch TV for six or seven hours a day, and many people right now are struggling (be it by their own fault or the crappy economy). Millions of Americans are in the exact situation this guy is in. The only thing that makes him different is that instead of parking his rear-end on a sofa in front of the tube, he plays Anarchy Online.

Not saying that he doesn't play too much, he probably does. However, the article does seem extremely negative about his personal life, and I find it hard to believe that the reporter didn't take liberties to make the story more "interesting."

(tm)

[Anonymous Coward]

Anybody else sick of this "Good Thing(tm)" "Bad Thing(tm)" shit. FUCK YOU!!(tm)

Re:(tm)

[meatFreedom]

I agree. It is indeed rather stale by now.

Imagine a country

[Sylvius]

Imagine a country where someone declares bankruptcy, then goes to the mall with his wife to buy some treats (that's when he bought AO). Then, the person is a week from eviction, but has a modern computer, internet access, and the disposable income to pay $13 a month for a game. Is it any wonder that communism failed?

Madison is always

[Anonymous Coward]

high on those lists of "best places to live" in various publications.

Journal

[Schezar]

I suggest you read my latest /. journal entry. This whole episode made me think.

Darwinism...

[malakai]

I wouldn't hire you because you can't seem to find enough of a clue to beat out 90% of the other morons looking for a programming job right now.

If you have such talent as you claim to have, getting a job should be no problem. I have known people in the last 4 months that got well paying jobs and in my expert opinion write shitty code.

Whats really sad is you can honestly do this from your chair. I would normally say "get off your ass and go meet people" to network your carreer. But you don't have to. Keep all the usual places with up to date resumes (monster, techies..etc). Join opensource projects you have an intrest in. Add those open source projects to your resume (AFTER YOU ACTUALLY CONTRIBUTE MORE THAN A SPELLING FIX CVS UPDATE). Write some goofy application that saves you time for something, and sourceforge it.

ADD ALL THIS TO YOUR RESUME. Show me you know how to communicate (open source mailing lists), that you know politics (open source mailing lists), that you can code (i'll search the projects you participated on and see how many times you got flamed for shitty code), show me you can manage the basics of a project (your own sourceforge project, i'll see how you kept it up to date, if you used the features, how you tracked the bugs and grew your application).

This is the stuff you SHOULD have been doing the past 4 years (if you are graduating now).

If your resume is empty, who's fault that?

And buddy, the least you could have done for yourself is stick your resume on your slashdot homepage. I've seen people beg for jobs on slashdot before, and it normally works. How long they last in that job, i'm going to guess not long.

-malakai

Pathetic.

[LazloToth]

Truly, truly pathetic. Get busy living, or get busy dying, to quote that guy from Shawshank.

Re:Pathetic.

[AOthedeacon]

that coming from some dork ass with the signature "If finding Linux is like getting religion, I was saved at kernel 0.99." Uh huh lol. bitch, sit your little whack ass back down before I scare you with the thought of puberty. "If finding Linux is like getting religion, I was saved at kernel 0.99." How fucking nerdy is that, dude? And you come on here to tell me I have no life? DUDE YOU FREQUENT A LINUX SITE WITH THE MOTTO "news for nerds" omfg man, get a clue! And while you're at it, get some zit cream, decent clothes and a fucking woman, you genderless freak! I know "LazloToth" ain't rolling with the ladies. "Hey baby, check out my new recompiled kernel on my custom P4 gig woo woo! Linux is my religion" Please let me see you in RL so I can hook your juicy fat gamer booty up with an atomic wedgie.

Re:Pathetic.

[LazloToth]

LOL! Somehow, though, I suspect the "real" thedeacon is more articulate.

Re:Pathetic.

[Anonymous Coward]

check out this thread that points back to /. comments. Pretty funny, this guy is legit (and a loon)

Re:Pathetic.

[LazloToth]

Interesting, in a clinical sense. One can only imagine the number of psych dissertations spawned in these sites.

Re:Pathetic.

[AOthedeacon]

Give it a week and you'll rip out that nerdy ass siggy you got going and replace it with: "OMG TEH FOOTNESS!" Deacky pwns thatazz, y0.

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[Demonix]

I beg to differ, its just that games require a different set of finely honed skills in order to succeed.

Reaction speed is critical, as is trajectory prediction. An awareness bordering on 6th doesn't hurt either.

Calculation, prediction, and physical twitch are essential, as is the ability to rapidly assimilate and react to changing data.

I have more respect for a hardcore gamer than I do ANY baseball player because honestly, baseball strikes me as being such a low skill sport its not even funny. but thats just me.

I like small towns

[Anonymous Coward]

I live in a small town, and I want to live in a smaller one when I grow up. I like nature and I have no interest in the 'big things' that supposedly happen in cities. As far as I'm concerned this guy has a dream life; if he's unhappy with an income that's better than 90% of the rest of the world's, he ought to realign his priorities. Personally, I thought the rampant materialism and amorality of the late '90s dot-commers was pretty lame, but I have to admit, those who want but are too lazy to get are even lamer.

Good for you all!

[kmhebert]

I liked hearing from the folks in Madison. It does sound like a pretty fun place! It really does seem like Thedeacon needs to turn off the computer for a little while and get to know the world right in front of him. Don't get me wrong, I love video games myself and have "wasted" plenty of days playing in front of the TV set. But there are limits to everything and based on what I've been hearing from the Madison crew, Thedeacon's problems with society seem to stem from his inability to relate to it in a meaningful way, and shouldn't be blamed on the community he lives in.

Great Quote

[Anonymous Coward]

Never heard of it until now.

Using MMORPGs for Societal Good?

[JAS0NH0NG]

This is going to be a lengthy but serious discussion of MMORPGs.

Usually, when I read these kinds of articles about game addicts, I always think, "if only we could use his powers for good!" If only we could make it so that people get more out of games than just fun. If only we could actually get something genuinely useful at the same time (so we don't end up with stories like this one from The Onion).

My canonical example is Crazy Taxi. In this game, you drive a taxi, taking people from place to place in a pseudo-San Francisco city. You get more points for driving recklessly, getting as close as you can to crashing things without actually crashing into them. What if...you could actually learn the streets of San Fran while playing this game? I hate driving there because I don't know what the streets are, because of all the one-way streets, because of all the cars and pedestrians. But what if you could actually learn the streets incidentally while playing the game? You would actually be learning something useful beyond the game console.

Now, analogously, what if we could get something useful out of MMORPGs, more than just entertainment and player-killing?

Here's a crazy idea: what if we could actually simulate real problems of society in MMORPGs and harness the power of players in solving those problems? For example, homelessness or pollution?

What if these MMORPGs were modelled such that they actually reflected real aspects of the world, creating an environment where we could actually experiment with different public policies, or even have the numerous players (who are clearly very intelligent people) try to figure out different solutions to these problems? Try out different ideas that may eventually influence what we actually do in the real world?

One example that's pushing in this direction is University of Washington's UrbanSim, where they try to predict what the impact of different public policy decisions will be on the environment. (They also run tests on old data to make sure their model matches the actual results).

I'm aware of how difficult this would be, all of the barriers in making convincing and realistic models, in making an appropriate reward system to incentivize people, in actually convincing academic scholars in sociology and public policy as well as policy makers that these ideas can be realistically and feasibly implemented with the expected results. (I'm in the Phd program in Computer Science at Berkeley, I have a pretty good idea of how difficult it would be).

But think about the potential here as well. A simulation with thousands of people interacting with one another, where we could try out radical new ideas in solving problems. Think of it as SimSociety. Think of it as a variation of Doug Engelbart's vision, where we need to get better at solving problems because the ones we're facing these days are far harder than anything we've ever seen before. Players could be doing more than just having fun. They could also be making a difference, for the better.

this man is an idiot

[edrugtrader]

madison wi is one of the best cities on earth. i grew up there and just went back for a bachelor party. i hooked up with 5 girls in 3 days, and have a 2-way full of numbers.

in the bay area full of snotty up tight bitches i'm lucky to get 1 number during an entire weekend.

i am a gamer, a programmer, and most of all, a drunk. get this fucking loser a beer and tell him to shut his pussy. no one cares.

How do functional addicts fit in?

[swb]

There are also a class of people considered "functional addicts" -- I'm only familiar with the subject in the realm of substance (ab)use, but the idea is that these are people who consume large amounts of a substance but yet do not have disrupted social lives or immediate health problems -- they hold (often prestigious, well-paid) jobs, have families, friends and all the other trappings of a normal life.

I remember reading a NYT or other magazine article a few years ago on white collar heroin addicts who fit this definition well and, thanks to the relatively noncorrosive effect of heroin* relative to booze, had excellent long-term health prospects

People like them were an interesting contradiction of the addiction model: they're not specifically hurting themselves, they have good social lives and careers, about the only negative factual thing you can attribute to them is they're breaking the law.

Any other criticism is purely moral, and the morality of addiction studies is where I think there's real meat.

* Despite the awful connotations, opiate use is far less destructive than liquor or cigarettes. Most of the danger is attributable to IV users addicted to the "rush" from injected heroin, which is difficult to sustain long-term without increasingly high doses.

Re:How do functional addicts fit in?

[Transient0]

They fit in perfectly with the medical addiction. If these people tried to stop they would have a lot of trouble doing so and experience measurable withdrawal syndromes. If they have no problem quitting whatsoever then I think you would be hard pressed to say they were ever addicted in the first place.

If someone is using the first definition I gave, then these people are not addicts. If you are using the second or third, they almost definitely are.

Re:How do functional addicts fit in?

[Crazy Eight]

Hunter S. Thompson is a good example of this.

Re:How do functional addicts fit in?

[swb]

Although a lot of people consider HST's journalistic ability to have fallen apart in the mid '70s largely due to massive cocaine use, nixing the "has good job" qualification (unless you equate "good job" with "good income"). He also is supposed to have physically abused his ex-wife Sandy, in addition to cheating on her, which eliminates the "stable family life" factor as well.

And then there's just all the absurdity and violence he was associated with since the mid 70s as well, which might also eliminate him from consideration from the "functional addict" definition.

Of course you could always just define functional addict as someone who does tons of drugs and isn't dead.

The most unbelievable part of this story...

[SID*C64]

He has a wife!

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[darthtuttle]

True on what makes you good on a game being partly circumstances, but even in LAN games, There's always those three or four people who blow away everyone else, and the 20 who blow away most everyone else and "the rest". I usually can fall within the 20.

I don't know that the social component is "good" or "bad" but it does exist. Your going to do much beter in a game where you can get a bunch of people to join you in the fight. If your virtual social skills are non existant, your not going to do as well.

I'll give you that there's a lot of book learning going on in some games. My own personal favorite, Diablo, is about as hard to learn as 52 card pickup. Mostly it's about thinking far enough ahead not to get surrounded, and being able to pick the enemy off. Not very hard, but then if I play deep thinking games I get sucked in to easily. I do play Bridge, that's my thinking game.

I'd say the MM online games have more opportunity to showcase game playing skills. If the game is good it will reward those people. I don't play AO, so I can't say how well it does this.

Now, where did Pindleskin go, I need better armor.

Mod parent up, ye absent modders!

[Durindana]

This is fantastic. I wish threads stayed alive longer, so those like this could get modded up.

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[Anonymous Coward]

You think is is random chance? Is it random that a serious Quake/Counter Strike/Street Fighter player could beat you 100 times in straight matches?

No, it's not random chance, it's those pesky aimbots.

Sex & Violence

[Lightwarrior]

What constitutes a cultural taboo (about sex)? Not condoning anonymous sex with multiple partners? Being pro-life? Thinking that handing out condoms to children is innappropriate? Maybe it's just me, but despite being born and raised in the U.S., I don't view sex as dirty or evil.

If we are to go by what is on the television, is violence culturally taboo in Europe?

Quite often, I hear people extoll the virutes of Europe with their free-thinking about sex and their censorship of violence. What about portraying sex is better than portraying violence?

Morally speaking, who are we trying to protect? If it's children who can not tell the difference between reality and fantasy, you've only swapped one image with another. Rape, STDs, pregnancy, and abortion are just as serious (if not more so!) as assault, robbery, and murder.

I think you've greatly overstated the involvement of Puritain views in our society. For one, realize people who have negative associations with sex (for whatever reason) will discourage it, just the same as any person with any negative association. It isn't always about what happened hundreds of years ago.

For another, some of the greatest 'heroes' in our society, arguably, work the least. Consider athletes and movie stars - how often are they working? How much do they make? How long are they expected to work?

I think the poster who mentioned you being resentful believed that your comparison of our society with the Puritans was overly harsh and indicitive of resentment of our current societal views.

-lw

Re:Sex & Violence

[Surak]

Morally speaking, who are we trying to protect? If it's children who can not tell the difference between reality and fantasy, you've only swapped one image with another. Rape, STDs, pregnancy, and abortion are just as serious (if not more so!) as assault, robbery, and murder.

Morally speaking? Who's morals? Morality is based on shared cultural values, with its own set of ethics and taboos. And children? Why must morality always be about children? Do you think there is no nudity on TV in the US because of children? Despite what you may have heard, not everything based on 'morality' is about children. It is ultimately up to parents to decide what their children should and should not see.

I'm pagan, and several of my pagan friends have raised their children to be pagan. In many pagan religions, nudity and sex are not viewed as being sinful. One of the places we hang out is a clothing optional piece of private property out in the middle of nowhere north of Detroit. These friends have brought their children there for YEARS. Are you saying that they are morally corrupt because they've seen a few naked people? Some have grown up to be fine, upstanding citizens who are now in college pursuing degrees in engineering, sciences, and the arts and they are doing quite well.

For one, realize people who have negative associations with sex (for whatever reason) will discourage it, just the same as any person with any negative association. It isn't always about what happened hundreds of years ago.

But WHY do they have negative assocations with sex? In many cases, they claim it is based on *morality* and that morality is part of the cultural norms. And those cultural norms came from *somewhere*. The U.S. is primarily made up of European descendants, yet in Europe there are far fewer sexual taboos. Sociologists often equate this with the Puritanical influence on culture in the U.S.

For another, some of the greatest 'heroes' in our society, arguably, work the least. Consider athletes and movie stars - how often are they working? How much do they make? How long are they expected to work?

Do you think athletes and movie stars don't work? Do you think just ANYONE can throw a baseball 90+ MPH in a straight line? Do you think just ANYONE can give an Oscar-winning peformance? No. These are *skills* and they take *years* of training and, yes, hard work to develop.

I think the poster who mentioned you being resentful believed that your comparison of our society with the Puritans was overly harsh and indicitive of resentment of our current societal views.

Again, I have no such resentment. I simply have a different point of view than most, and I am willing to look at our current societal views with a fair and objective mind, unlike people who accept them as 'just the way it is.'

Re:Sex & Violence

[Crazy Eight]

What about portraying sex is better than portraying violence?

Uhh, sex is beautiful, pleasurable, and loving while violence is ugly, disturbing, destructive and painful?

Certainly your question is valid. For the record, I dislike most portrayals of sex in our media. Think Baywatch. There is a cartoonish, subadult, look-but-don't-touch psychology behind such shows. I think foreigners might be inclined to see us as perverts who prefer talking about sex to having it.

Re:Sex & Violence

[Anonymous Coward]

Censorship of violence?
You havent seen "Lock, Stock, and Two Smoking Barells" then.

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[Requiem]

I've played a lot of modern games. I went to a Halo party last night, I play Battlefield 1942, I'm big into fighting games and there are few that can last a round with me in Street Fighter 2, never mind beating me (I'm still human, of course, and lose occasionally). But you know why? Practice. I've played the Turbo edition pretty regularly since I was 13. Practicing does the following:

- it gives me near-perfect timing
- it lets me know what people are likely to do (I don't play the CPU anymore, because I know pretty much what it'll do)

I've played video games for a long time. I'm twenty one, and I first played on my friend's Famicom when I was six or seven. I have a Nintendo, a Super Nintendo, a PSX, a PS2, two gameboys (original and colour). But I don't consider skill at video games a skill in that something like an instrument or a martial art is a skill. The general skills applicable to video games can be learnt in a year or two of lots of playing, and with obsessive playing, one can pretty much master a game in six to eight months. Video games have artificial constraints which one can only work around. With a real skill, your constraints are typically internal, and with practice, you might be able to lessen or even eliminate them. With video games, practice just means you're working within the same constraints.

Music and martial arts, on the other hand, are a different story entirely. There's some reflex involved, certainly. "Body memory" as I like to call it. I can throw a front snap kick and do basic kata decently because of mindless, repetitive practice. Hand me a flute, and I'll automatically hold it correctly, as there's a number of keys which one could theoretically press, but doesn't. But if I play an instrument or practice a martial art for ten years (think about this: ten years!), does that make me skilled? Hell no! Both require a lifetime of committment. I can't think of any game off the top of my head that would require a lifetime of committment to truly master. I've played the flute for ten years, and the horn for about seven. With the horn, I'm close to the level where I might be able to be an alternate player in the local symphony. If I play the horn for the next twenty years, I'll probably spend that time refining how I use my breath, as well as the positioning and use of my hand in tone-bending! These are subtle things - these are far more than reflex. Unlike the constraints of video games, these constaints can be bettered over time.

Games are a simple domain. I don't believe skill at video games is truly a skill. It's partway there, sure, but most of the people who want to consider it a skill are slugs who sit at home, playing video games, and want to justify their existence. Is it reflexes and coordination? Sure. Is it much more than that? Not really.

It's amazingly arbitrary to consider something 'not a skill' just because it involves a computer.

You may not agree with my argument, but I feel it's a valid argument none the less. And please don't try to imply that I'm some sort of luddite. I'm a graduate student doing computer science. I think that in time, games could become a skill. Certainly they could. But not right now - they're still simple systems, even the best of games. I think that some sort of realistic VR-type game in twenty or thirty years would almost certainly be considered a skill.

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[The Phantom Buffalo]

How much time have you spent over the years practicing, to be able to frag like the best of them? If you spent that much time playing basketball, would you be near the skill level of an NBA player?

Does using the keyboard and mouse for non-gaming functions help with gaming? Since you are using a keyboard and mouse for most games, does playing a racing game help improve your performance in a shooter? If this is the case then some kids spend a lot of time practicing. I imagine that if someone practiced a sport for a few hours a day, longer on weekends, they would master that sport as well.

I can't begin to calculate the amount of time I've wasted playing video games over the last twenty or so years. Way too much I imagine. Games should be a temporary distraction, not a way of life. If someone has mastered video games by twelve, they have probably neglected some other aspect of life that is more important.

de facto evidence and celebrities

[GunFodder]

While Puritans may have been a minority in the formation of the US they had a disproportionate effect on our culture.

US workers continue to work longer hours than almost all other countries in the world. And there is no doubt that sex and "adult situations" are censored and generally discouraged in the mass media. This de facto evidence points to the conclusion that Puritan values are part of American culture.

I would argue that athletes and movie stars actually work pretty hard. They may have long breaks between work, during which they may be working hard on private enterprises or endorsements. While they are working they are often travelling and living in hotels and trailers. They often have to work long hours and weekends. And even in their private time they have to be a roll model.

Something missing?

[Rosyna]

You Spoony Bard!

Ah, I had to get that out of my system.

quiescent and obese

[rodentia]

We are already those things and the streets are full.

Art is dead, long live dada.

[quintessencesluglord]

Yeah, but you don't mention "The Simpsons", or Metallica, or Peter Jackson. They are popular, they are cultural. They are pop culture. They are also art. "Many of our common chords would be better unstruck - our basest desires and most destructive impulses among them." Hitchcock would disagree. I disagree. As my friend put it: "Everything is manipulation." "I think that about sums up the level of pop discourse; just insert meaningless sex or drugs for violence". A clever allusion to the Velvet Underground. I almost missed it. "I'm talking about mindless hatred and destructive violence..." as if nihilism wasn't an artistic end to itself. How is advertising an ill purpose? It is what it is. Good or bad, it would seem, is its' effectiveness (as you have pointed out for other instances). And as you mention, games can foster creativity. As well as Moore, Ed Wood, or Franck. Never apologize for what you like. Long and short of it: you seem to be pushing towards exclusiveness ("art good, pop bad"). I want inclusiveness (bad pop=good art). And really, what is a better representation of art (be it popular or otherwise)? Come on down. My friends and I will be renting "Uncle Meat", munching on some pizza and beer. Welcome to attend.

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[@madeus]

But not right now - they're still simple systems, even the best of games

I still think that position that video games do not require skill is an absurd postion to take.

A skill is a 'developed talent or ability', you increase your skill at something through practice and training.

Your are choosing to determine that video games require no skill because they don't require a certain _level_ of skill, because they can be learned relatively quickly, which makes no sense unless your also willing to accept that other things which take a simiar time to learn (say, the recorder, tin whistle, karting, basic woodwork or metalwork) also do not require skill - which is just as absurd.

I can't see how an rational person could honestly think that being good a video games is not a 'developed talent or ability'. Frankly, I think you've decided upon an utterly absurd idea and are just trying to justify it. Changing 'your definition of skill' is just a means of shifting the argument to that end.

abusive comments

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm amazed at the level of abuse thedeacon is getting here. WTF is it to you people that he spends 7 hours on a game? If you can get so wound up and viscious over this kind of article perhaps you yourselves are spending too much time on the internet?

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[Requiem]

I can't see how an rational person could honestly think that being good a video games is not a 'developed talent or ability'.

You haven't considered the possibility that you've been trolled, have you?

Bullshit, Pittsburgh is a great college town

[Anonymous Coward]

In Pittsburgh you CMU, UOP and Duquense all within walking distance of each other. Plus there's the water front which has some of the best clubs in the country

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[Ruger]

If your assumuption was correct then you should be able to beat Quake III on the hardest level with little difficulty, after all others can do it - and so if it takes no skill why would you find it difficult when they do not?

It does require skill and some dedication to play games, but only a moderate amount...especially compared to any sport or real skill like playing a musical instrument. No one excells at the piano after only months of practice, while the average game can me mastered in that much time or less.

Ruger

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[@madeus]

My comments get read, modded up and more people read them, which helps me fufil my social agenda (which is what people do). Win Win.

And, wow, if you think *that's* trolling your are the worst Troll in history (or don't know what it means).

Response from AO Boards and details of article

[An Tse]

The forums at the AO site contain quite a bit regarding this article. Interestingly enough, a lot of the "he is a loser" comments made here at /. are refuted by thedeacon in his forum postings. One of which can be viewed here: Link

About 2/3 of the way down the page you will find the first of the rebuttals, and on the second page of the post you will find addtional information.

FYI, I don't play AO but have played other MMORPGs

Cyc is the same

[CrazyJim0]

From talking to people, they tell me I developed what they use in CYC.

The problem is that Cyc doesn't have a 3d engine which is probably why its not so big yet.

Back in 93, www was starting up, and gopher was well used. I got my connection by having my 11th grade teacher forge a document for me.

Re:from the article ... not quite what it seems

[Frizzled]

Actually the person featured in the article has a few things to say:

Let me tell you something. The article about me written by Seth Schiesel, AKA Amis (his ingame name) is such a roving pack of lies slandering the person I really am in real life that I'm flat out disgusted by the whole thing.

right now I'm too stunned and upset at the amount of lies, miscontext, misquotes and outright slander posted on the article to even log in.

I'll be filing a lawsuit against the New York Times for slander, as many of the things put in that article about my real life (and even ingame) are so horribly untrue or twisted and the truth stretched to paint me in a much much different light than the person I really am.

He paints me as a shy, akward, socially inept reclusive nerd which is such a contrast to the person I really am. I make racy jokes, but he paints me as a virtual rapist. I'm broke in RL, but he paints me as a suicidal, emotionally unstable man that lives in the slums (I live in a good neighborhood) and can't afford to buy food. This article is absolutely ruinous to myself, my business, my future. It's the lowest form of slander imaginable.

Even the pictures used were horrible. The first is dark and brooding and in the second picture I was about to bust out laughing, which also looks a hell of alot like crying and is just a flat out BAD pic.

Please keep any jokes off this thread as I feel serious about this. I can see some pretty horrid real life repercussions as a result of this article.

So much of what I said to him in the four days that he was here was taken FAR out of context and quotes that I had supposedly said were either entirely made up or the wording was changed to change the focus of what I was saying.

Sound familiar? Well about a month ago, another NY Times reporter by the name of Jayson Blair did the exact same thing. I just never had any idea something like this would happen to me. He told me that he was doing a general article about the community of AO through my eyes. Instead, a pack of lies gets slammed on the world's largest newspaper about me. The entire focus of the article was misrepresented.

The writer, Seth Schiesel is a reporter for the NY Times and his ingame character is named "Amis", a high level Omni MP. The article was so vicious and untrue at some points that it seems to have been written with malice in mind.

I'm so humiliated at some of the things said in that article. it shocks and amazes me how someone can so callously and deliberately say such untruths. I'm painted as a socially inept reject that never leaves his home, which is the opposite of who I really am.

It's one thing to flame someone ingame, but this goes way beyond that and extends into my personal life.....worst of all, 80% of what he says is an outright lie. The other 20% is an exaggeration or was taken out of context.

While it may not seem bad to many of you, if you knew me in real life, you'd know why I was so upset right now.

thanks alot Amis (his ingame name). Never figured to be stabbed in back like this.

Read for yourself here: http://forums.anarchy-online.com/showthread.php?s= 11d03b3f2a2d89b880b547768512bc25&threadid=1434 07
(about seven posts down)

_f

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[@madeus]

It does require skill and some dedication to play games, but only a moderate amount...

I think the world 'moderate' is very relative.

I'm not comparing current videogames with learning an serious musical instrument, but videogames are ment to be fun (and wouldn't be if it took 15 years to become professional at a single game), but for example:

If you practiced, say Quake 3 Arena, the same way people practice something simple the recoder (i.e. an hour or two a day), I think you could become very proficient in both within the same amount of time.

Though obviously the two are difficult to compare, under such a regime it would take weeks, or rather months to become very proficient. And people who *are* _really_ good at games have often been playing them for 10, 15 or more years and use skills built up over time (as even on new titles they have no experience of they can frequently start pulling ahead and become unbeatable by most people after just a few rounds).

I mention this because I think because video games are 'fun' and because it's easy to sit for many many hours straight in front of a game and watch the time melt away to nothing (I've done many games for 12+ hours straight). I did piano lessons for years as a kid, but I'm sure I spent more time playing Quake the year it came out that I did in something like 4 years of piano lessons.

I'm still /very/ good at Quake I (like ~100 kills to everybody elses 0 an office game against 7 people, no camping, no map specific knowledge, against non-newbies, just timing and being 'at one with the game') but that's the only game I'd say I'm really good at. (For example, I'm useless at Q3A, as it has a slower feel, different timing and an odd balance I never liked - as a consequence I haven't spend a lot of time with it). I'm actually useless at most games (as I can't be bothered to put the effort in any more).

I should qualify this though: I certainly don't think all games - or even most - require much in the way of skill, but live real time multiplayer games against other people (like C:S, Quake, CTF, Ghost Recon, etc) have scope for more skill that I think they are being given credit for (though even a few, predominantly Japanese, hardcore single player games *do* require Neo-esq timing, beond the abilities of most mere mortals).

OMG!

[bethanie]

He demands sexual favors from mutants of all species and requests that, in particular, mutant females of the nanomage persuasion provide him their feet.

I'm pretty sure I dated this guy in college!

....Bethanie....

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[Zebbers]

hey dumbass
wed make fun of a football player who practice 8 hrs a day too...specially to no real avail

but...most athletes dont

the athletes that devote absurd amounts of time reap REAL rewards, like scholarships or even money

neat-o

this little thing we call real life

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[Requiem]

huh?

From the Jargon File:

troll v. To utter a posting on USENET designed to attract stupid responses or flames

I certainly got the latter, didn't I? And it's actually a fairly good troll: a post attacking video games on Slashdot, a geek forum, is a good way to attract attention. I'd say it's a decent one.

(granted, this isn't Usenet, but the idea holds)

You forgot the Miflin Street block party.

[Anonymous Coward]

You forgot the Miflin Street block party. Or did the war on personal freedom \h\h ...\hdrugs destroy that too.

TheDeacon

[Zane0]

I'm sorry, but this entire conversation is revolting. Here's the fact of the matter, TheDeacon is revered in game. He helps new players, he writes tons of great stories, he breaths life into the community. The entire article was a despicable effort to garner a sort of "Hype" or amount of sales. According to TheDeacon himself, several points in the interview were used completely out of context. You see, TheDeacon has just recently organized and completed the meta-physicist walk of rubi-ka. It's been one of the greatest events in the game for quite some time. To see stuff like this about Deacon? After what he did? So disgusting. Instead of getting comments like this, Deacon should instead be collecting praise for making the AO community a better place. I have nothing against any of you, but the stuff said here is so totally [b]wrong[/b], that I had to chip in. The next time any of you feel like replying to an editorial like this, try thinking before you speak. Try researching, try to prevent your information from being completely incorrect. Before you reply, check out http://forums.anarchy-online.com/showthread.php?s= &postid=1479064#post1479064 and get the story from the real person.

Response from Thedeacon

[AOthedeacon]

Grab your asbestos panties. I'm about to flame the hell out of your jelly belly, Dr. Schole's, pencil protector wearing, ain't had pussy since pussy had you, slashdot reading, wannabe flaming asses. Let me ask you this: If I was as poor as this fella makes me out to be, how in the hell can we afford car payments, insurance, Cable TV, High speed internet, entertainment (not AO, ya goobs) Easy.....the guy lied. Um, and here I though slashdot readers were supposed to be smart? Wow...I don't get out much, yet somehow I find time to go dancing every weekend, go to trips out of town, etc. "Shy"....Come to Madison or log into AO and see how "shy" I am. Let's break it on down for the less estute among us: Rent: $645/mo Cable: $60/mo Internet: $50/mo car: $299/mo Insurance: $shit, I forgot. I think it's 1-200 or something. Yeah, I got speeding tickets, bite me. Food: roughly 300/mo (I like my steaks) AO: $12.95/mo Clothes: I buy alot of clothes, so sue me? roughly $500 a month. Other entertainment: meh, 5-800 a month or so. Last year I cleared just under $100k after expenses. No, I'm not poor at all. in fact OMFGLOLROOFLESMAYO. Do the numbers. I make 50-100 per hour times 20-40 billable hours per week. That equals: a buttload more than half you bitches pull in :p If the walls were "crashing down around me" and I was so poor, how the hell was I able to afford a $50 game and $200 in clothes that day? Easy. The guy lied. I mean, there's so much about the article that doesn't make sense. Yes, I'm oh so poor, let me lean back in my leather chair and play AO on my brand new 21" monitor. Here's what I see you people writing: "OMG this guy is such a loser, he plays MMORPGS and has no life, blah blah blah how pathetic. I think I'm going to spend the next 26 consecutive hours blasting him on the slashdot forums. the very fact alone that you bother to read the article and then post flames about it makes you look far more pathetic than even that article could make you look. You call those flames? Panty waists. Amateur flamers. Get some meat behind some of these weak ass jabs and maybe you'll be blessed enough to have Thedeacon own your Linux lubbin asses individually. Um guys? YOU READ SLASHDOT. You read slashdot and troll the forums for all day. Hey, it's reality calling. JOO ARE A DORK. I play for 40 hours a week. Heh, to be honest, when you consider how much TV (and forum trolling) most americans do, that number is not too horrible. Of course that number is grossly exaggerated (I work for 9 hours a day, make dinner, watch a movie with my wife, I write, work out, I do stand up comedy, I read, etc, so it's a physical impossibility that I play that many hours, unless I've gained the magical ability to increase the length of the day by 6 hours or something). Wow, the Linux freaks on this boards sure are in a place to talk. Lessee, "Slashdot: News for nerds". Um, "nerds". And you guys are proud of this. What does that say about you? I think the flamers on this thread are more pissed that I play games and still get the pussy, while they're spanking it to midget porn. People, get your collective heads out of your asses and don't be so naive......The article was a lie. Seth Schiesel (aka Amis ingame) harbored a grudge over an AO article I picked apart nearly a year back. His writing has the flow of an 8th grade essay and structure to match. You know the Times has to be hurting for talent and news when they make a post about a video game. Really people, log off your super admin whatever Linux geek shit for a sec and think about it. Take a good hard look at your own hobbies and think about it again. Let's see: you spend all day arguing about Windows versus Linux on what it by far the nerdiest webpage in existence, based on what I've read so far today. Look at the news post icons, look at the topics. Fuck man, look at yourself. this is me: http://www2.milwaukee.k12.wi.us/juneau/RickS.JPG Now post your pics. The people flaming me are the ones I used to beat up in high school an

Re:Response from Thedeacon

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL

Re:Response from Thedeacon

[dhowe01]

"The people flaming me are the ones I used to beat up in high school and the social rejects I shun and reject today."

I guess you are not such a nice guy afterall.

Re:Response from Thedeacon

[dryueh]

I'm sure there's a paragraph tag in there somewhere.....but damned if I can find it.

Woof.

Re:Response from Thedeacon

[Anonymous Coward]

YOU SPEND ALL DAY READING FEKKING SLASHDOT! YOU POST ENDLESSLY ON THE SLASHDOT FORUMS. I simply cannot get over that fact. I mean, who's the true geek here?

Posts by AOthedeacon (680910)
Friday June 13, @01:36AM
Friday June 13, @01:19AM
Friday June 13, @01:16AM
Friday June 13, @01:10AM
Friday June 13, @12:37AM
Thursday June 12, @10:21PM
Thursday June 12, @09:44PM
Thursday June 12, @09:31PM
Thursday June 12, @09:06PM
Thursday June 12, @09:00PM
Thursday June 12, @08:29PM
Thursday June 12, @08:26PM
Thursday June 12, @08:20PM

Denial ain't just a river in egypt.

Re:Response from Thedeacon

[Anonymous Coward]

http://www2.milwaukee.k12.wi.us/juneau/RickS.JPG

Look it's Derek Smart's evil twin!

PS. You're a bore and an ass. Good luck in Vegas.

Re:Response from Thedeacon

[Anonymous Coward]

mmmm midget porn

Re:Response from Thedeacon

[Anonymous Coward]

... and he is obviously a liar. He couldn't beat anyone up but his ugly wife.

Re:Response from Thedeacon

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, I don't give two shits what the NYT said about you, or your game-playing, but you're awfully defensive for someone whose life is supposedly so great, don't you think? Such a lengthy and passionate defense smacks of sheer desperation.

I mean -- posting your eighth grade school picture? Self esteem problems much? You don't really look badass or anything, either... sorry. I'm not sure what you were trying to prove, but nice tie, Faggio. Unless you've buffed up in the past nine months or so since that picture was taken.

By the way, only nerds use the phrases "pwned" and "JOO" and brag about how much pussy they are getting and others aren't, and such. So, good try, but your nerd is showing.

Re:Response from Thedeacon

[Anonymous Coward]

INFO ON THIS MOTHER FUCKING NIGGAR.

You can find background info on theDeacon on this link. BTW his name is RICHARD L STENLUND.

Picture of him and his fat wife.

You can find his e-mail from this link. Enter his name, Madison/Wi as addr and age 27.

Re:Response from Thedeacon

[Anonymous Coward]

Does this guy realize that the rest of the people on AO are under 14?

Re:Response from Thedeacon

[TalMaximus]

Now that is uncalled for. His ramblings are petty to say the least, but to turn this racial, and start attacking him personally is completely unnecessary. I understand that in a general way he has attacked you just by the community you are associated with, but he has not attacked you personally, and certainly with nothing as invading as finding your personal information, or displaying humiliating remarks about your wife...assuming you have one. Completely unnecessary post. Not to mention the fact that you're hiding behind an anonymous posting. Just plain cowardly post all around.

Its about time someone posted this:

[Om242]

[I'm Like a Chocoholic, but for Booze]

and another thing

[AOthedeacon]

What a lame site. Heh, you know a site is geared towards the ultimate in geek when the default posting method is "HTML formatted".

Sorry the last post was all in one paragraph, but seeing as most of you have no woman, no lives outside of Linux and slashdot and were generally dull enough to read both the Times article, Slashdot AND my reply (which probably took a couple hours off your lives, which you'll never get back), you can deal with it.

Wow, when someone asks you what you did today, how are you going to reply? "Yeah, I flamed this one guy that plays this one game.....lemme slap my monkey and then load of Quake 3 on my new uber Linux server and recompile a kernel or something"

Lol again, fucking geeks :p

Re:and another thing

[AOthedeacon]

let's get you guy educated in the fine art of flaming someone. Put down your physics books and get your asses back on these boards so I can smack you sorry bitches down one at a time. Lightweight wannabe flamers.

Re:and another thing

[LazloToth]

Let's get you educated in the fine art of spelling. From there, grammar. Then, onto rational thought.

Re:and another thing

[AOthedeacon]

And then onto.....what else are you good for other than a spelling and grammatical error? forum trolling? Shit, I already got you beat on that one. I'm the fucking king troll. I'm the troll the OTHER trolls pay toll to when they cross bridges. Oh I know, perhaps you can educate me on how to masturbate with my other hand so it feels like someone else is doing it? Other than that.....I'm drawing a blank mind. See? I'm already becoming more like you!

Re:and another thing

[agrounds]

You, sir, are a fucking tosser.

I don't give a shit what games you play. I don't give a shit how fucking long you play them. I don't give a fuck if you never get laid, or get laid more than Wilt Chamberlain. I certainly don't need an accounting of your finances. I don't give a shit whether you classify yourself as a geek or not. What I do give a shit about is that you come onto these forums and berate the posters because of some prior and unsubstantiated perceptions about people you know nothing about.

I am sorry you feel persecuted by the media. Your not the first. Welcome to the real world. People are not all the stereotypes you imagine them to be. Armed with this knowledge, I charge you with going forth with your life with your eyes open. Go now. Close your browser. Open Anarchy Online, and play your game. Have fun. Enjoy life. Be happy. Fuck off.

Re:and another thing

[Anonymous Coward]

Wow.

Your attempt at trolling is quite pathetic.

Let me get this straight....

[UES]

All I know is when I do the math, I get this:

7 hours a day, huh?

So typical day must look like this:

7:00 AM Wake Up
7:30 AM Shower, Brush Teeth
8:00 AM Breakfast
9:00 AM Begin playing videogame
Noon Stop playing, Lunch
1:00 PM Resume playing videogame
5:00 PM Stop playing, Dinner
6:00PM-11:00PM Everything else in his life (Work, hobbies, marital relations, food shopping, car repair, P2P theft of music)
11:30 or so Bedtime

I don't know if he's an addict. I do know he works a full-time job for no pay and no benefits. "Hobby" was about 4 hours a day less time online ago. Gotta admire a strong work ethic in this day and age.

Re:Let me get this straight....

[AOthedeacon]

which is exactly why it's not possible to play for 7 hours a day, dumbass. from 9am to 6pm, I work. After 6, I log in on and off of the game. Maybe chat with folks a bit, log off, do something else, maybe log back in and leave the game running while I do the great unknown in slashdot world: HAVE ACTUAL SEX WITH A REAL, BREATHING WOMAN! omg! Now go grease that shriveled piece of meat in between your legs and blow up tonight's date, dork.

Re:Let me get this straight....

[Call Me Black Cloud]

Wow. You're an ass. Anyone who plays a game that much is a loser.

Re:Let me get this straight....

[Anonymous Coward]

Your wife is a fucking fat white slut, I saw the ho down at the grocery store, man if I see her again, I'm going to hit her so fucking hard that all her 32 will fall. I fucking swear.

come on bitches, bring it on. scared?

[AOthedeacon]

I'm still waiting for more flames. I'll spam you motherbitches until I'm suspended here. did I hurt da widdle nerd baby's feewings? Need to get your fat waddling asses back on these boards so you can get schooled once more. Step right up, come on come all. I'm looking forward to tearing down some pussy ass slashdot nerds. you got something more to say? for this one day I'll be a slashdotter and put up with this horribly dull and ugly ass websites for the sole purpose of making some bitchass linux geek wet his two-sizes-too-small corduroy pants. you want to talk smack about Deacon? Deacon will smack you punk biatches down. Now what's up? you had alot to say before I came on the scene but now you're quiet?

Re:come on bitches, bring it on. scared?

[Zane0]

It's obvious that these "fine" gentlemen didn't expect to be actually confronted. {Shrug}

Posted by TheDeacon

[JRHelgeson]

Let me tell you something. The article about me written by Seth Schiesel, AKA Amis (his ingame name) is such a roving pack of lies slandering the person I really am in real life that I'm flat out disgusted by the whole thing.

Right now I'm too stunned and upset at the amount of lies, miscontext, misquotes and outright slander posted on the article to even log in.

I'll be filing a lawsuit against the New York Times for slander, as many of the things put in that article about my real life (and even ingame) are so horribly untrue or twisted and the truth stretched to paint me in a much much different light than the person I really am.

He paints me as a shy, akward, socially inept reclusive nerd which is such a contrast to the person I really am. I make racy jokes, but he paints me as a virtual rapist. I'm broke in RL, but he paints me as a suicidal, emotionally unstable man that lives in the slums (I live in a good neighborhood) and can't afford to buy food. This article is absolutely ruinous to myself, my business, my future. It's the lowest form of slander imaginable.

Even the pictures used were horrible. The first is dark and brooding and in the second picture I was about to bust out laughing, which also looks a hell of alot like crying and is just a flat out BAD pic.

Please keep any jokes off this thread as I feel serious about this. I can see some pretty horrid real life repercussions as a result of this article.

So much of what I said to him in the four days that he was here was taken FAR out of context and quotes that I had supposedly said were either entirely made up or the wording was changed to change the focus of what I was saying.

Sound familiar? Well about a month ago, another NY Times reporter by the name of Jayson Blair did the exact same thing. I just never had any idea something like this would happen to me. He told me that he was doing a general article about the community of AO through my eyes. Instead, a pack of lies gets slammed on the world's largest newspaper about me. The entire focus of the article was misrepresented.

The writer, Seth Schiesel is a reporter for the NY Times and his ingame character is named "Amis", a high level Omni MP. The article was so vicious and untrue at some points that it seems to have been written with malice in mind.

I'm so humiliated at some of the things said in that article. it shocks and amazes me how someone can so callously and deliberately say such untruths. I'm painted as a socially inept reject that never leaves his home, which is the opposite of who I really am.

It's one thing to flame someone ingame, but this goes way beyond that and extends into my personal life.....worst of all, 80% of what he says is an outright lie. The other 20% is an exaggeration or was taken out of context.

While it may not seem bad to many of you, if you knew me in real life, you'd know why I was so upset right now.

Thanks alot Amis (his ingame name). Never figured to be stabbed in back like this.

Re:Posted by TheDeacon

[AOthedeacon]

:D

My last post, taken from the AO boards:

Slashdot: News for nerds....

So Slashdot readers spend all day trolling the forums and somehow that's LESS geeky than playing AO? Man, wtf?

But seriously, the article about me is such bull that I've gone from being uberly pissed to almost amused by the lack of writing skill involved and the obvious lies that were thrown haphazardly in the article. I mean, omfg, I live "hand to mouth", yet buy $500 in clothes a month, pay rent, have high speed internet, cable TV, make car payments, etc.

Me: "Wow wifey, we're so broke. Let me sit in this new leather chair and play AO on my brand new 21" Sony monitor. but we really are broke, as I could only afford the Geforce4 TI4600 and not the FX. Wanna go buy some clothes? I got a few hundred bucks from my last service call and 2 grand from my last website contract."

Um, I'm quite far from being poor. OMFg. I make 50-100 per hour x 20-40 hours per week billable time.

Um, Seth? Were you asleep when you were here? God, the clumsy amateurish writing of both this article and the ELLTS scope article from a year back (which I rightly flamed him for) makes me think the Times is hurting for news.

Hey you know, I play alot of pac-man too. Maybe Newsweek will write an article about me too? Lol the Times. Right now after the Jayson Blair story they have about as much credibility as the "Weekly World News".

Lesson number 1: Work out a goal for the article AND STICK WITH IT FFS!

It's like, I'm reading the article and see

"thedeacon is ugly, prideful, robs little old ladies but he's also caring and a good guy, but he's poor, and yeah, something something about the community, now let's call thedeacon poor again and yeah, he demands sexual favors"

That's like something a little kid would write. And here's the pic of me in a leather chair sitting in front of a new big ass monitor wearing an 80 dollar eddie bauer sweater. "Let's all pity me pls".

"Hand to mouth existence"

I am truly broke atm, because my wife and I are moving to vegas at the end of the month. Since we don't wish to rent a truck, we have to buy all new furniture, pay for gas to get down there, etc., which will run upwards of around 5,000 bucks.

That's not living "hand to mouth", it's called "saving money to move"

You know what? Maybe the Times should hire me instead. God knows even an amateur writer such as myself could write circles around such libelous drivel and at least make it readable and semi-palatable.

But then again, so could my 7 year old nephew. Or a blind, illiterate person with no hands.

So yeah, I'm broke, but the reasons Seth Schiesel stated are utter bullshit. I'm broke because moving to the other side of the country and refurnishing a new home will cost me upwards of $5000. I'm not hand to mouth, I'm saving to move lol.

But I'm seriously having fun here. Tomorrow, slashdot will go back into my pile of unknown drivel nerd sites, but it was great to out talk and thoroughly outclass a bunch of hardcore Linux geeks.

w3rd.

It can be done in moderation though

[Simehiri]

I don't have a problem keeping my playtime to an average of 1.5 - 2 hours a night. I understand that with the large scope and depth of MMORPGs, it's easy to get overwhealmed and set goals too high. But, with a little moderation and time management, it's not hard to have a life and play online games, really. Interestingly though, it's not just online games where people can sink 8+ hours of idleness. People do it with parties, sports, movies, books, e-mail/phone gossip, etc. Pre-pubescent nerds aren't the only ones that play these games, either. None of my RL online gaming friends fit that template at all. In fact, one is an extremely successful, built, handsome M.D. with a large house, expensive vehicles, great marriage, and two adult sons. As for my personal motivation to play online games. I just really enjoy teaming up with a group of my friends and mushing baddies and engaging in interesting roleplaying. It's just a really fun, relaxing nightly past time which is much more fullfilling to me than watching sitcoms or sports.

Big Man on, uh, Campus...

[MacrosTheBlack]

Well, I've read the NYT article and thought it was interesting. I've read the replies by thedeacon on AO Forums. I've read the replies on /.

I gotta say, the article was interesting, showed me what some ppl get out of MMORPGs. I didn't think it was negative from reading it. I do see how it could be negative in light of the replies by thedeacon in AO forums.

But how constructive is it to diss the ppl who read /.? I mean, as much as the ppl who play MMORPGs would hate being stereotyped, thedeacon seems not to mind throwing all of the /. readers into the same barrel.

Apparently none of us have ever had sex, we're lame, have no lives, and get off on Linux and kernels. Oh & posting in HTML is geeky.

As thedeacon should know, any large group of ppl with different backgrounds from different places with a common interest are NOT identical. Just as not all MMORPG players are addicted & socially inept, not all /. readers are geeky & get their loads off over Linux.

thedeacon's replies on AO Forum were relatively elloquent, and written well. Full of anger & frustration, sure, but all in all nicely done. Better than the NYT article almost. But on /. all it is is flaming and abuse.

If thedeacon is trying to show he's a bigger man than the person who wrote the article, he sure failed. All he want's to do is threaten and abuse ppl. God, get over it. Physical threats are lame... the pen is mightier than the sword after all. I'm sure if thedeacon is as intelligent as he claims to be he could be more constructive.

Oh, wait, I forgot... this is /. after all.

Re:Big Man on, uh, Campus...

[AOthedeacon]

or, I could be showing you all a taste of your own medicine.

Or did you miss the majority of the first 555 comments?

Articulate talk is good in a civil situation and only goes so far.

But when a bunch of hypocritical Linux geeks flame me for being.....what, an mmorpg geek (?) it's time to lay some smack down.

Remember that a good flame, even one with such base ghetto trash talk and grammatical errors to make even myself blush takes a considerable amount of intelligence and wit to write.

I saw the weak ass slashdot flames as a pathetic attempt for a bunch of nerds to make themselves look as if they aren't the rejects that they really are by...well, by painting me as a social reject.

That my friends is the stupidest form of hypocricy I've ever witnessed.

So I did the same. Only better. Hey, I'm a hypocrite too now! Mayb I should come here more often.

On second thought, I don't think there's enough coffee in the world to keep me awake after sifting through the worthless garbage called 'news' and the even more worthless opinions smackdotters share and vehemetly hold onto.

Read your forums. Jebus H Christ, you know what you guys look like to an outsider? You look like I looked after reading that article. A bunch of freaks and social misfits. Suse Linux vs Redhat Linux. Who gives a fuck? That's absolutely no different than arguing Soldiers versus Nanotechnicians in Anarchy Online.

It's geek shit.

How many hours do you people spend recompiling kernels, flaming on slashdot, going to Linux User Groups, talking about Linux, masturbating to the Linux girls and comparing dick sizes in Quake? And then most of you work in the industry as well.

So you work 40 hours a week in some lame IT field, then spend another.....what, 40 hours a week doing geek shit at home, yet you self righteous pricks feel as though you have the right to point me out and laugh as if what you do is any better?

Truth is I *do* get out alot. If I didn't get out alot, I'd admit it with pride. If I was as dirt poor as the article suggested, I'd admit it with pride. If I lived in a blue collar neighborhood closeby porn shops or whatever, I'd admit it with pride. Why? Because there's nothing wrong with any of that.

But now who is the first to cast stones? Arguably THE biggest geeks on the Internet. Slashdot. now ain't that irony for you?

People whose own existences are so petty and pointless that they feel the need to make assumptions and speculations and outright insults about a person they never met for doing the same geek shit they spend their entire lives doing. Think about that.

If the flamers on this forum had a lick of sense they would have thought about that. And then they would have remembered the old adage "Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone" or even "don't throw stones in a glass house".

Please turn your holier than thou perceptions back on yourselves and you'll see what I'm talking about.

And by the way, think before you flame, because I'm the fucking Arnold Schwartzeneggar of the geek world and I'll rip your candy asses wide open on these forums or any other.

HUGGLEZ!

-Thedeacon AKA Nonuts AKA Rick ;)

Re:Big Man on, uh, Campus...

[LazloToth]

"Remember that a good flame, even one with such base ghetto trash talk and grammatical errors to make even myself blush takes a considerable amount of intelligence and wit to write."

Actually, I've seen robots in chatrooms provide wittier and more coherent rebuttals. So, you are wrong, whoever you are. It takes intelligence to write the bot code, but not to spew blather.

Re:Big Man on, uh, Campus...

[AOthedeacon]

lol please go bow down to your Linux God or something. Your little ass already got schooled. You *really* must consider changing that fruity signature of yours. It's hard to even take you seriously after reading that. Hell, I barely need to say anything. Your sig is self defeating if you wish to host a contest on who is more pathetic. What are you too stupid to know when you've been outmatched by 'blather'? Come back for another taste? 30 years of virginity sure has given you a tough skin, hasn't it?

Re:Big Man on, uh, Campus...

[MacrosTheBlack]

I don't need to make abusive comments, or defend myself. I think u do a nice enough job of making yourself look stupid.

Oh, & my penis is bigger than yours... I think that's the summation of the comment above.

Re:Big Man on, uh, Campus...

[Zane0]

Don't be stupid, he's making light of your prior uneducated comments.

Re:Big Man on, uh, Campus...

[Anonymous Coward]

rm -fr /proc/ppl/black/idiot/Thedeacon

Re:from the article ... not quite what it seems

[Flyph]

It's the NY Times. I was under the impression that they promoted journalistic qualities such as exagerration, plagarism, and outright lying. If it a bit of truth stretching makes the story more controversial, expect it to be done. Be upset about it? sure. But surprised? no way

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[@madeus]

huh?

ROFL.

troll v. To utter a posting on USENET designed to attract stupid responses or flames

I certainly got the latter, didn't I

Seriously though, your very amature, it's very funny.

To learn the meaning of the word flame have a look at page 193[0]. You'll then see why it doesn't qualify as a Troll.

[0] New Hackers Dictionary 3rd Edition, Jargon File Hard Copy by ESR.[1]
[1] Or look it up on line/use grep if your too much of pikey to own a hardcopy.

Before you call TheDeacon a Loser.

[Dolemite_the_Wiz]

Check out his reply from the AO forums and read 'TheDeacon's' response to the article.

Keep in mind the recent problems with the NY Times and their Editors/Reporters not providing or checking facts in their stories.

Here's a sample of a few of his replies (it's a pretty good read):

Let me tell you something. The article about me written by Seth Schiesel, AKA Amis (his ingame name) is such a roving pack of lies slandering the person I really am in real life that I'm flat out disgusted by the whole thing.

right now I'm too stunned and upset at the amount of lies, miscontext, misquotes and outright slander posted on the article to even log in.

I'll be filing a lawsuit against the New York Times for slander, as many of the things put in that article about my real life (and even ingame) are so horribly untrue or twisted and the truth stretched to paint me in a much much different light than the person I really am.

He paints me as a shy, akward, socially inept reclusive nerd which is such a contrast to the person I really am. I make racy jokes, but he paints me as a virtual rapist. I'm broke in RL, but he paints me as a suicidal, emotionally unstable man that lives in the slums (I live in a good neighborhood) and can't afford to buy food. This article is absolutely ruinous to myself, my business, my future. It's the lowest form of slander imaginable.

Even the pictures used were horrible. The first is dark and brooding and in the second picture I was about to bust out laughing, which also looks a hell of alot like crying and is just a flat out BAD pic.

Please keep any jokes off this thread as I feel serious about this. I can see some pretty horrid real life repercussions as a result of this article.

So much of what I said to him in the four days that he was here was taken FAR out of context and quotes that I had supposedly said were either entirely made up or the wording was changed to change the focus of what I was saying.

Sound familiar? Well about a month ago, another NY Times reporter by the name of Jayson Blair did the exact same thing. I just never had any idea something like this would happen to me. He told me that he was doing a general article about the community of AO through my eyes. Instead, a pack of lies gets slammed on the world's largest newspaper about me. The entire focus of the article was misrepresented.

The writer, Seth Schiesel is a reporter for the NY Times and his ingame character is named "Amis", a high level Omni MP. The article was so vicious and untrue at some points that it seems to have been written with malice in mind.

I'm so humiliated at some of the things said in that article. it shocks and amazes me how someone can so callously and deliberately say such untruths. I'm painted as a socially inept reject that never leaves his home, which is the opposite of who I really am.

It's one thing to flame someone ingame, but this goes way beyond that and extends into my personal life.....worst of all, 80% of what he says is an outright lie. The other 20% is an exaggeration or was taken out of context.

While it may not seem bad to many of you, if you knew me in real life, you'd know why I was so upset right now.

thanks alot Amis (his ingame name). Never figured to be stabbed in back like this.

Dolemite
______________________

My, oh my ...

[Niet3sche]

I have read over your internet site and have reached a very important decision. One that is somewhat monstrous in all its gravity. You're an utter jackass. BUT - I'll help you out. Here's what you do to avoid being likened to Bernie (Bernard) Shiffman - you take your website and trash it. Actually, fill it with garbage so that the google cache will take it, then trash it. As in offline. Take your "resume" and trash that. Take a cocktail napkin and write the following on it: I AM COMPETING WITH MORE QUALIFIED PEOPLE THAN I, DUE TO SCORES OF LARGE CORPORATIONS LAYING CIOs AND KEY PERSONNEL OFF. I WILL WORK FOR JOB SECURITY AND MAYBE $7/HOUR. THANK YOU. And this will garner you more hits than your current *snort* "style". I'm honestly trying to help you here; it MAY WELL BE that you are an ub3r-1337 h4x0r ... but you've shown (me) nothing to differentiate yourself from a common hacker - you can kluge code. So what. Any 6-year-old can do that. Are you a software engineer? Unlikely. But let's take this a step further - let's say that you *are* fluent, versed, and able to perform at the SE level - so who do I choose, as management, to work for me? The ego-driven freak who tells me he wants $120K a year for Software Engineer I ... or the guy with 20 years in as a Chief Architect / Head Developer who will take $35K a year for Software Engineer I, has management potential written all over him, and will not jump ship because his family's livelihood is tied up in the company... Good luck to you. Oh, and another thing ... maybe the place to "patent" something would be *drumroll* at the US "patent" office. Though if you have the $370 filing fee, then you're far from broke and can move somewhere to start a career in construction or whatever will pay the bills.

Judging people...Why?

[Linoleum]

So... who are you guys to judge Thedeacon? Do you know the guy? Not that it matters, since what one does with his own time should be solely up to him, and should be respected, like any choice one might make. This seems like to elementary me, but I suppose most people haven't thought that far... I play AO, and as an Officer in Storm, I know Thedeacon pretty well, although only on a virtual level. However this is enough to tell that Thedeacon is not the geek he is represented as in that so-called Article, which quite frankly is an insult to jorunalism. Sure he plays 7 hours a day sometimes, so what? He is no exception, and the professional situation in which he is right now has nothing to do with his hobby. If it had, all players of MMORPGs would be outcasts with no lives, which is far from being true, since many of us are successfull in their jobs/studies and social lives. What amazes me the most is that you people seem to blindly swallow whatever information the press presents you, which shows a big lack of judgement. After all the media are just another form of propaganda, and they need a scapegoat which has evolved over time, from violent movies, to videogames, now focusing mostly on online games. Does every person that watches a violent movie turn into a mass murdered? No, the same thing goes for online gaming, and becoming a "social reject". It happens, but those people are the vastest of minorities, and lack the strenght of character to avoid this, which would probably have led them the same way, if they hadn't played a game like AO. All I see here are a bunch of people judging others for the sole purpose of feeling better about themselves, a more and more common action in our world of the so-called politically correct. If people could just put aside there pride for a few minutes, and admit that we are all freaks in one way or another, this kind of bullshit could be avoided, but I guess thats not an easy thing to do in a world which pushes us to "perfection" which is an illusion anyway. The only real thing to discuss about this article is the fact that the so called journalist, wrote information he never should have (regarding Thedeacon's reallife) and made him look bad, by distorting and exagerating the truth, to say the least, which could have repercussions on Thedeacon's professional life. If you can't understand Thedeacon's legitimate anger, and think it is ok that a newspaper writes bullshit, in order to sell more, at the cost of a "random joe" like The deacon, then I wish the same thing will happen to you one day. Greetz, Lino.

Re:from the article... (it continues)

[Mir322]

"my other issue is that things in that article were posted that we specifically told him *not* to post about, i.e. financial issues, bankruptcy protection, Amis' remarks were made to damage both my reputation ingame as being a carefree joking individual and my real life persona as a loving husband and entrepreneur and turns me into someone whose life was destroyed by AO, in an attempt to perpetuate a stereotype of your average game player. But the bottom line even beyond the outright fabrications made here is that statements were posted that I specifically expressed *not* to post and the entire focus of the article was totally misepresented to both myself and my ingame friend stuntiliator. We were told that the article was supposed to be a positive article about the AO community as told through my eyes.
Seth was upset over his last AO article, in which I sort of flamed it on these boards for being not news worthy and for being a bit frivelous (it was an article about the nerfing of ELLTS scopes), so writing this inflammatory article about myself is his way of getting back at me.
My personal information that he may have overheard while staying with us or we told in a casual atmosphere, he did not have permission to print. And if that's not bad enough, Seth Schiesel/Amis embelished the truth during several points in the article.
It's not just a slam on me, it's a slam on everyone that plays an MMORPG. Basically, he came here and was surprised at what a normal life we led and how emotionally balanced we really are here.
So what does he do? Make up fabrications to sell papers. If anyone knew me in real life, I think they'd be surprised. They'd also be disgusted at the lies in this article. So while you might say "it's not that bad" now, if you knew me in RL, you'd say "Good God, I can't believe he said that!"
I do realize that some in this game don't appreciate my sense of humor, but this ingame malice towards me transcends to real life and attempts to discredit not only thedeacon, but my RL name as well. And that is what makes it slanderous.
At this point, my name is being trashed over on slashdot.org, I've had 7 client calls today alone, questioning the article and basically stating they no longer wished to do business with me.
You all have shown me so much support and again I must say I love you guys for that. But I may take a little break from AO as a result of this, as I'm simply humiliated by the lies reported in the world's largest newspaper. You have to understand what this does to a person's life to truly understand why I'm so upset about this. Alot of people read the Times. Again, alot of people read the Times. ALOT.
This has not only caused me emotional distress, but it is also causing me considerable financial losses as well. That goes way beyond a video game.
Alot of people read the Time. My clients read the Times. "
http://forums.anarchy-online.com/showthread.php?s= 11d03b3f2a2d89b880b547768512bc25&threadid=1434 07

Re:from the article... (it continues)

[Farscry]

Much as I grow weary of all the lawsuits these days, I'd recommend this guy sue Seth for libel, especially since it's causing measurable damages.

Jesus christ man.

[pr0ntab]

Why did you ever agree to have a Times article done on you, especially when it ain't going in the A section.

Everything else might as well have been in the Post, if you know what I mean.

Sorry, chap, I hope you win your lawsuit. But don't you come around here flaming this forum. You should listen to yourself, you sound like a raving idiot who has very little self-esteem. I don't need to see your list of expenses and how you can pay for them, I honestly could care less.

Geek.

GEEK

HAHAHAHhAHA!!!

Re:from the article... (it continues)

[Lemmy Caution]

I don't think he has much of a case, from what I see. No factual claims are being disputed.

The complaints about "comments taken out of context" are usually from people who don't really understand how the things they sound seem to the people who hear them, who are relatively unaware of what kind of figure they cut. People who are accustomed to dealing with the media know how to manage the impression they give: one good technique is to do practice interviews and videotape them.

SURAK IS A TROLL - READ HIS JOURNAL

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck me with a goat

MOD PARENT UP!

[Anonymous Coward]

i thought the article was mostly bullshit and thought that the deke was an ass, too. "teh footness" is so lame.

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[Requiem]

First, that's "you're", and "amateur".

Next, here's part of the definition of flame:

To post an email message intended to insult and provoke. 2. vi. To speak incessantly and/or rabidly on some relatively uninteresting subject or with a patently ridiculous attitude. 3. vt. Either of senses 1 or 2, directed with hostility at a particular person or people.

Let us consider a response intended to insult and provoke:

I still think that position that video games do not require skill is an absurd postion to take.

That would fit the definition of flame. Because of that, my post was therefore a troll.

Finally, I own a hardcopy, but it's at home.

YHBT. YHL. HAND.

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[@madeus]

That would fit the definition of flame. Because of that, my post was therefore a troll.

lmao...

Man you are weak, dude, I can't belive you responded to that seriously...

And resorting to spelling corrections as line of defense? Man you are too k-rad 4 me.

MOD PARENT DOWN

[Anonymous Coward]

Parent is a detriment to the entire gaming community and even if only half of the stuff in the article is true, he's a complete dirtball and makes all of the MMORPG players look bad.

Re:MOD PARENT DOWN

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed.

As a admin on AO, we are thinking about moving his credit id to the blacklist and removing all his aliases.

He only brings negative attention to the AO community, this is not something we as a community like. I'm also suggesting a new type of cross-MMORPG blacklist where such abusive users could be put up. We are in the process of negoatiating one such list with the help of Sony.

James Eckert
AO Admin.

Re:Since when is gaming a skill?

[Requiem]

It wasn't a line of defense. It had nothing to do with my argument. I'm just doing my part to correct the rampant illiteracy on the internet.

Want more proof that Thedeacon is a scum-bag?

[Anonymous Coward]

Gee that is interesting, if he is such a nice guy then why did he post these comments?

After reading those it pretty much makes me believe that The Evil Couch's claims as well as other similar ones are true.

All that his posting did was kill any creditability he might have had.

In case you haven't figured it out…

[Anonymous Coward]

The reason we haven't been posting is that most of us have moved on to other stories. Then there is the fact that few people will try to have a discussion with someone who resorts to insulting people and acting like a child. Just like the with similar insult spewing /. trolls, don't think much people would care or bother to reply to you anyway.

Why don't you do something about your financial problems instead of wasting your time here? Better yet, why not escape your responsibilities by going back to your MMORPG and try not to damage the MMORPG community's image any further with your stupid postings? Not only are you giving MMORPG players a bad name, your foolish actions are just making more people believe this story, and claims like this.

If you want to keep providing the world with proof of the stereotypes such as MMORPG players being addicts, socially irresponsible, ignore basic life necessary needs, ignore all responsibilities, spend most of their living and free time escaping reality, get pissed and take it out at others for their problems instead of being mature, etc then go right ahead.

We are not afraid you, we have just moved on to other stories and things. You sound like the type of person who acts tough due to the anonymity of the internet but are really a spineless coward in real life.

gamers

[Anonymous Coward]

It bothers me that no one ever talks about the success stories of gamers. Its so easy to talk about an actor or sports star who's profession saved their life but never a gamer.

My name doesn't matter. My only purpose is to tell you how video games saved my life.

I grew up in a poor neighborhood ridden with crime, violence, and addiction. My mother raised my sister and myself the best she could alone. We were poorly clothed and poorly fed regardless. I hated being poor just like the other kids in my neighborhood. So I started selling drugs and getting into trouble with the other kids where I lived. Soon many of my friends were dead or in jail and I was heading on the same path.

I wanted to change my life. The problem with leaving that lifestyle is you never know what you going to do instead of it. I bought Everquest and it gave me something to do besides getting into trouble. It was great because it changed my street mentality. I decided I wanted to go to college and make video games like the ones that saved my life. I started college and even though I changed majors a few times I'm nearing the completion of my degree. I casually play AO and I look foward to living a healthy lifestyle with my close friends and loved ones. Video games saved my life and I'm sure there are many out there like me.

Michael jackson ring a bell?

[dnoyeb]

After seeing what happened to Michael Jackson one would expect some sort of defensive posture.

Re:from the article... (it continues)

[Anonymous Coward]

sounds like a loser,/..,.,

This could not be more wrong

[blissful ignorant]

The Puritans were English religious protestants. However, they mostly chose to move to continental Europe and later the Americas after the autocratic military regime they had set up was swept away by popular pressure(the Glorious Revolution). Their society wasn't formed on conscience and shared values, it was formed on strict Puritanism. New England was not a wilderness, but an already civilized place, left relativetly empty by the European diseases which had /would killed/kill ~90% of the native population of America.

HAHAHAHA this is great.

[Anonymous Coward]

What a fucking loser. I hope I can see you in person one day, so I can laugh at you publicly. Then you can go on making my french fries.

A simple query:

[Anonymous Coward]

This "man" is supposedly married. Having read his remarks, I have come to the following conclusion:

His alleged wife is either

• non-existent
  
• the recipient of a sex-change operation
  
• insane
  
• retarded
  

Seriously, if I met a clown like this in public, I think everyone would agree that it would greatly benefit society as a whole if he were to be put down. How he ever managed to attract this alleged spouse is beyond the bounds of logic.

Civil Liberties

[klasikahl]

As I understand it from theDeacon's response to this article, there is quite a bit of slander contained within. I don't know if anyone is thinking the same thing that I am, but this much slander would qualify as defimation of character. The article's author has commited libel.

Personally, if I were the subject of the article, I would bring a civil liberties suit up. This kind of article is a violation of the subject's civil rights.

/. is a buch of crap eating hippies

[Anonymous Coward]

Grab your asbestos panties. I'm about to flame the hell out of your jelly belly, Dr. Schole's, pencil protector wearing, ain't had pussy since pussy had you, slashdot reading, wannabe flaming asses.

Let me ask you this:

If I was as poor as this fella makes me out to be, how in the hell can we afford car payments, insurance, Cable TV, High speed internet, entertainment (not AO, ya goobs)

Easy.....the guy lied. Um, and here I though slashdot readers were supposed to be smart?

Wow...I don't get out much, yet somehow I find time to go dancing every weekend, go to trips out of town, etc.

"Shy"....Come to Madison or log into AO and see how "shy" I am.

Let's break it on down for the less estute among us:

Rent: $645/mo
Cable: $60/mo
Internet: $50/mo
car: $299/mo
Insurance: $shit, I forgot. I think it's 1-200 or something. Yeah, I got speeding tickets, bite me.
Food: roughly 300/mo (I like my steaks)
AO: $12.95/mo
Clothes: I buy alot of clothes, so sue me? roughly $500 a month.
Other entertainment: meh, 5-800 a month or so.

Last year I cleared just under $100k after expenses. No, I'm not poor at all. in fact OMFGLOLROOFLESMAYO. Do the numbers. I make 50-100 per hour times 20-40 billable hours per week. That equals: a buttload more than half you bitches pull in<nobr> <wbr></nobr>:p

If the walls were "crashing down around me" and I was so poor, how the hell was I able to afford a $50 game and $200 in clothes that day?

Easy. The guy lied.

I mean, there's so much about the article that doesn't make sense. Yes, I'm oh so poor, let me lean back in my leather chair and play AO on my brand new 21" monitor.

Here's what I see you people writing:

"OMG this guy is such a loser, he plays MMORPGS and has no life, blah blah blah how pathetic. I think I'm going to spend the next 26 consecutive hours blasting him on the slashdot forums.

the very fact alone that you bother to read the article and then post flames about it makes you look far more pathetic than even that article could make you look.

You call those flames? Panty waists. Amateur flamers. Get some meat behind some of these weak ass jabs and maybe you'll be blessed enough to have Thedeacon own your Linux lubbin asses individually.

Um guys? YOU READ SLASHDOT. You read slashdot and troll the forums for all day. Hey, it's reality calling. JOO ARE A DORK.

I play for 40 hours a week. Heh, to be honest, when you consider how much TV (and forum trolling) most americans do, that number is not too horrible.

Of course that number is grossly exaggerated (I work for 9 hours a day, make dinner, watch a movie with my wife, I write, work out, I do stand up comedy, I read, etc, so it's a physical impossibility that I play that many hours, unless I've gained the magical ability to increase the length of the day by 6 hours or something).

Wow, the Linux freaks on this boards sure are in a place to talk. Lessee, "Slashdot: News for nerds". Um, "nerds". And you guys are proud of this. What does that say about you?

I think the flamers on this thread are more pissed that I play games and still get the pussy, while they're spanking it to midget porn.

People, get your collective heads out of your asses and don't be so naive......The article was a lie. Seth Schiesel (aka Amis ingame) harbored a grudge over an AO article I picked apart nearly a year back. His writing has the flow of an 8th grade essay and structure to match. You know the Times has to be hurting for talent and news when they make a post about a video game.

Really people, log off your super admin whatever Linux geek shit for a sec and think about it. Take a good hard look at your own hobbies and think about it again. Let's see: you spend all day arguing about Windows versus Linux on what it by far the nerdiest webpage in existence, based on what I've read so far today.

Look at the news post icons, look at the topics. Fuc

Re:/. is a buch of crap eating hippies

[Anonymous Coward]

So let me get this right, you make $100k a year and managed to have to file for bankruptcy protection? Sure...

This could not be even more wrong

[The Briguy]

You are also completely wrong. The glorious revolution was in 1688. It had everything to do with internal politics in Great Britian. The first Puritan colonies in North America appeared in 1620. In 1644, the Puritans, under the leadership of Oliver Cromwell and with the backing of parlement, overthrew King Charles I and set up a military theocracy in which thier ideas were supreme. Eventually, after Cromwell died, the monarchy was restored. In addition, New England was a wilderness, and certainly was not a "civilized place". The diseases of which you speak of would not strike the Native Americans until after settlement was well underway.

Re:Same problem with Golf

[PGillingwater]

HA! I had to LOL at this one, as I used to be somewhat addicted to Diablo II (hardly a MMORPG), but replaced it with an addiction to golf. I still play DII (when it's dark), but usually get in around six rounds of golf per week. I started a year ago, and last weekend broke 80 for the first time.

Golf *is* addictive, but it also happens to be an activity which is good for you. You learn a lot about yourself, and bringing that handicap down is quite challenging!

GET A FUCKING LIFE, YOU FUCKING LOSERS

[dh003i]

No, I haven't bothered much to RTFA.

I skimmed through his response, and I can guess that the NYT wrote a story talking about how pathetic he was, or something along those lines.

My question is, who the fuck cares? Is this guy a celebrity? No. So why the fuck does anyone give a flying fuck about his personal life? This is crap I'd expect to see in the Inquirer, but not the NY Times. Obviously, the NY Times is no longer a worthy newspaper.

What this guy does in his personal life, including this profession and relaxation hobbies, is no-one's business but his own.

Sympathy for thedeacon

[anngwish]

Lazy bastard that I am, I just got around to reading the NYT article...
When I was a junior in high school, one of my school newspaper's reporters came to me asking to interview me because he wanted to write an article to "help people understand the Goth scene". I consented to the interview, and the resulting article bore a striking resemblance to the NYT article about Anarchy Online. One would think that people outgrow high-school crap, but apparently one would be wrong.
My only advice: he should sue. I feel that America is far too lawsuit-happy a nation, but suing them could help deter reporters from writing fact-twisting crap like this in the future. The reason stuff like that gets written is because they think no-one will speak up to set the record straight. Now I'm not saying all journalists are evil, but I learned the hard way the same lesson that thedeacon did: don't let your guard down, don't make off-hand comments, and NEVER say anything sarcastic, because sarcasm gets lost in the printed word. Anything you blurt out, if it makes a more "interesting" story, can and will be used against you in the court of public opinion, whether it was in context or not.