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Microsoft 'under attack' On All Fronts
khujifig writes "The Beeb are carrying a story looking at the challenges facing Microsoft in the next few years.
This includes a brief description of the M.Home (sans Clippy) which the Beeb describes as "a far cry from real life", and a discussion of the next few years competition for Microsoft. They go on to highlight Linux, OpenOffice.org, the GIMP and Firefox (which Gates himself has used: "I played around with it a bit, but it's just another browser, and IE [Microsoft's Internet Explorer] is better,"), and look Apple in relation to Longhorn. Not as bad a read as I was expecting. Their summary: Microsoft is under 'attack' on all fronts, and either needs to innovate or die. "Why use Microsoft if you have a broadband connection and combine Firefox with powerful web services like Google's Gmail?."" It should be said, tho', that articles like this have been written about MSFT for a long time - and there's still billions in their war-chest.
Quite the pro OSS piece... To answer the question posed in the summary, "Why use Microsoft if you have a broadband connection and combine Firefox with powerful web services like Google's Gmail?" Because there is more to the world than just the web and e-mail.
It's the end of the world as we know it...
...and I feel fine.
Which Microsoft product "The Gimp" is supposed to attack? Paintbrush?
I thought The Gimp was Adobe Photoshop concurrent, and AFAIK, Adobe has not yet been bought by MS.
"I played around with it a bit, but it's just another browser, and IE [Microsoft's Internet Explorer] is better,"
What makes it so much better? I've been using Firefox for a while now and it seems like more then 'just another browser' to me.
... that had things like tabbed browsing and live bookmarks a year before ie 7. psh
Most of the small businesses out there want support for a product even if they never use it. They want to know it's there. They also want to know that it's going to be supported by the same people for a long time. Think of it as security.
This isn't about which is the better product... it's about which one will get the project done AND be supported if shit hits the fan.
Support does NOT mean Forums or RTFM. They want real people. The fact is most people are not IT people. They just want it to work and forget about it. If it breaks they want someone to call to get it working again.
The same is for large companies except in the fact that they want support of future innovations. You are institituting a large scale database project... you are using My-SQL... something goes wrong... what do you do? Post in a forum, email a friend...
Same situation you are using MS-SQL, you can call tech support and bam get an answer or at least a much more educated idea.
I'm dissing open source. It's awesome and I think it keeps innovation alive and is always an alternative. But without the support... you aren't going to get the backing you might want.
One day, Microsoft will market their own flavor of Linux, out of spite.
Google GMail doesn't seem like a serious threat to Exchange. Postfix, yes, but a third-party service which reads your email...no.
XmlHTTP without ActiveX.
AJAX apps are getting more popular now.
Microsoft is under 'attack' on all fronts, and either needs to inovate or die.
Microsoft is about likely to go under as IBM, they may take a hit now and again, they they always come out fighting.. Look atthe X-Box, they had no real console based experenice before, yet they managed to give Sony a good fight, even debuting a year after Sony... I expect that the new version of IE will have everything that FF has, and more...it's just how MS does things...
I have always looked at MS as a big mean dog...you really don't want to mess with them, and you really really don't want to back them in a corner..
Please don't talk this as pro-MS, it's more of a pro-reality statement
"Why use Microsoft if you have a broadband connection and combine Firefox with powerful web services like Google's Gmail?." Sadly because i play games, and to play 99% of the games out there you need windows.
Microsoft will never die, its far too rich now to disappear completely, it may have diversify like IBM. If they have enough money to throw at the XBox project without blinking an eye then they will eventually find something that is profitable. They may never make the kind of dosh they have from Windows and Office but while they can afford to hire the best talent they are virtually guaranteed to stay in business.
Quit being silly, XP is blowing all other OSes out of the water with marketshare, the fact that 95% of all programs run under XP and no others will keep MS alive for a long time, I couldn't live without them, as many others couldn't.
The simple fact is it costs far more to change platforms than MS charges, and for the 95% who don't care what platform they use they will use MS, how can anything go up against a billion dollar advertising campaign? MS will be around for quite a while, learn to live with it, news and articles such as this grow tiring...
But hopefully they'll get up off their lazy butts and get to work.
How old is IE? Wonder if the recent Firefox buzz hasn't got them back in the shop feverishly working on IE 7. Wonder if many of the feature in the said browser won't mimic those found in Firefox (opera, safari, etc...)
How old is XP? Wonder if the recent Jaguar/Panther/Tiger buzz hasn't got them in the shop.... (you get the idea).
I hope we can keep them lumbering for a few more years. It would sure be nice to see them either start to *really* innovate or throw in the towel.
If you make them lose money long enough, it doesn't matter how much they have in the war-chest: like any good capatalist, they'll pull out when they realize its not growing anymore.
since when is this new? much of this software has been out for a while, and there have been many news stories about firefox gaining on IE, and how OOo is better than MSOffice. the real point of this story is that people want to flip MS the bird. it's a natural reaction, but it's not productive.
Microsoft 'under attack' On All Fours
I'm Trappped at Berkeley.
Name a company that can seriously put all of there resources together and pose a serious threat to Microsoft?
Only niche market software sources are able to peck away at MS.
People are brainwashed into following the most marketed item with all of the fancy surface features.
It's talking about more than OS, though. Firefox is over the 10% mark and growing.
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
This just reinforces my opinion that Bill Gates is so out of touch with the average user that it's laughable that he's the one (even if it's more behind the scenes than not) that's giving MS it's vision of where the company should go. Microsoft should be much more driven by what the end users want, it's seemed to me that for as long as I can remember Microsoft has been jamming their idea of what the people should want and how they should work down everyone's throat and that's just plain wrong.
Most people don't buy Microsft OS to surf the web and check email. Here are the 3 biggest reaons people buy Microsoft. 1. It's the standard, Im sure many don't even understand the options. 2. It 'supports' more variety of hardware then any other system by far. When a customer buys gadget X, it will work with windows. 3. See 2, except apply it to software. Windows has he largest variety of software.
All of these things can probably be tied to market share. So it does matter how good or bad or free and OS.. if it can't compete in those 3 areas, then it can't overtake MS. Many will keep hoping that someone will chip away at the dominance of MS, but I think the opposite will happen. Just like so many websites only working properly in Explorer; it wasnt like that 5 years ago.
I personally have done my part to convert emai/web surfing type people to Macs, but I can't with a straight face tell people in the real world running small business that they are going to be happier with Macs. Because the first time a customer or vendor says, "ya get the image file, its in our proprietary format", just download the software for it. ( it will only run on a Windows machine ).
My two cetns
"Bill Gates has a clear strategy. His company has very deep pockets."
Buy them out or spend them into the ground? I think this strategy will only work when XP SP3 or Longhorn drops in price to $4.99 (to cover the manufacturing and shipping costs.) Maybe they will just start giving Windows away for free? I think this is their only option.
He who knows best knows how little he knows. - Thomas Jefferson
This should be old news to Slashdot readers. We all know that Office is the cash cow that leverages windows across the enterprise. Or SMB.
... It's just that since they do so much badly that it all gets integrated into their OS/Office/Back-office. That's when people stop buying competing programs.
Really, most new Microsoft "lines" have failed miserably: Passport, MSNBC,
Besides, most companies are afraid to compete with Microsoft: Just look at MacAdobeMedia. They were formed explicitly because of fear. Most companies that are competing with MS started in an area that Microsoft moved into (Skype).
Q:What do you call a clumsy 800lb gorilla?
A: Sir (or an 800lb gorilla)
I think Microsoft is in the weakest position it's been in in a long time. Their new OS has been delayed. Their browser is full of holes. VB 6 developers are not moving to .net like they hoped. Their new OS will contain a lot of DRM that nobody wants. Mac and Linux are both making inroads. This is a prime time to get people to switch to something else.
Coder's Stone: The programming language quick ref for iPad
Why read the Beeb when you have an optical mouse and a DVD burner? :)
+5:offtopic,but anti-American
Honestly having 90% + market share is to much for any company. People are starting to realize that there are tools better fitted for their own needs. So Microsoft is not always the answer. It is not saying that microsoft products are perfect or they are utterly crap. But there are some jobs better fit by microsoft products and other fitted with other products. Now that consumers are getting use to downloading application for free and reading reviews on other products. The 90% stranglehold that microosft have is leaving. Windows is no longer considered a part of the computer. IE is not the Internet. As general knowlege grows the less stranglehold Microsoft will have. It is much like the drop in prices for our geekly services. Back in the 80s and 90s we were getting premium pay for simple jobs such as swapping drives or running backups even the Title "Computer Operator" was considered a high tech job, but as more people got use to computers many of the simple jobs are now done by people in accounting or marketing, or the janator is doing it. Just because it is common knowlege. Why was the mainfraim replaced with PCs because they were cheper and fast enough to get the work done. The same is happening with Microsoft. Will Microsoft die, Probably not but there market share will probably drop to 25-40% and still be the #1 software company. When people look at linux or apple and see a 2%-10% market share. They say it is low. But with all the competition out there 3% market share is pritty damn good.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Mac ownership is still at less than 2% and Linux can't really be considered to be a more secure and desktop-ready alternative to XP or 2000.
According to Gartner Mac market share is at 3.7% for Q1 2005. Not to mention that Macs tend to be used longer (still using a 400mhz G4 from 2000 as my primary computer when my PC from the same time has long been recycled).
As for Linux, maybe not desktop-ready, but clearly more secure than Windows? Oops, I fed the troll.
The real issue is not outside influences but internal meltdown and customers who fail to see the need to upgrade. Longhorn will be competing with XP and little, if any, of the new features Longhorn provides have any benefit to "normal" users.
Meanwhile Office is already very hard to push.
And the future isn't the PC, for end user computing. The switch to mobile is already well under way, and that's a platform Microsoft doesn't own.
However, MS IS looking at web and e-mail. A little over a week ago I got a call from an MS recruiter asking if I wanted to interview for the MSN web services division (my resume was posted online). It was my first ever call from MS (although I've approached them a few times before).
Basically, they're looking for people to code things like Outlook Live, which is essentially a web service edition of Outlook Web Access. According to the recruiter, they seem to be going full-speed toward services (while keeping an eye on the cashcows).
Their summary: Microsoft is under 'attack' on all fronts, and either needs to inovate or die.
I suppose, if these were in fact the only two options, M$ would in fact die, as they have never been in the business of innovation.
However, the real situation is not nearly as simple as Beeb makes out...M$ will weather this latest crisis, just as they have weathered all previous ones. Their stranglehold on the marketshare isn't likely to be broken any time soon, and the depth of their pockets insures that they can wait out any siege.
____
~ |rip/\/\aster /\/\onkey
there is more to the world than just the web and e-mail
Not to the vast majority of computer users. Most people I know think that the Web and the Internet are the same thing.
The computer using experience for most is: email, web surfing (this includes shopping on eBay) and gaming.
Digital photography is starting to push into that list more and more, but let's face it, Picassa is a great app and the price is right!
For some users there is not more to using a computer than web and e-mail. For example, my parents rarely use their computer for anything other than the two.
That being said, one of the main advantages to Windows is that when my parents have a problem with their computer there are many people they can ask to help fix the problem (although they unfortunately normally turn to me). Now, how many people can you turn to for tech support on a Linux box? In some situations many, but overall far more people would not have anyone to turn to.
As long as this stays the same Microsoft will still retain its hold on the market.
Mr Gates told me, and challenged my assertion that Firefox's 'market share' is growing rapidly.
"So much software gets downloaded all the time, but do people actually use it?" he argued.
And I have to say that software gets [forcefully] purchased all the time as well. Heck, I can remember buying dozens of computers -- ranging from desktops made into back-office quasi-servers to full blown workgroup type servers. To get each and every one of those machines the Windows tax had to be paid (at the time). I'm sure those machines are counted in Microsoft's totals for market share as well.
They still run Linux to this day.
Heck, I can count now HUNDREDS of computers that I'm responsible for that all originally legally ran Windows. Care to guess which Linux distro I used on them? Sad -- but a lot of those installs showed up as only one (1) [bittorrent] download...
Mr. Gate's arguments don't and won't fly for too much longer. Microsoft days are numbers -- and yes, I am ready to sell-short their stock when the day(s) come. Might as well make money on their misery -- they certainly have on mine.
I've been a Firefox user for a while. The main reason? Firefox has had stuff built into its browser Microsoft STILL doesn't have. Before the XP SPs, IE didn't have built in popup blocking. What a fucking throwback.
The only thing IE has over IE (which probably won't last too long) is some, just some, websites aren't viewed properly in Firefox as they were designed for IE.
What disgusts me the most about Microsoft is they have so much potential and so many resources, yet they squander it and believe their own hype. Back in the day, when Gates saw Netscape as a threat, he beefed up Internet Explorer and Windows and kicked Netscape's ass, deservedly so. Once he eliminated the threat, he simply abandoned IE where we've had fundamentally the same browser since the 90s. MS sees a threat, beefs up to fight it, wins, and then abandons it to starve to death.
Once OpenOffice picks up more steam (namely complete interoperability with all Office suites), you can guarantee free Office-lite from MS to combat them and a better Office suite. If OpenOffice is defeated, we'll have the same MS Office until 2010.
Microsoft is under 'attack' on all fronts, and either needs to inovate or die.
Isn't it like that for every company in this domain? I mean, there are a lot of them who just copy, but those who work well and make big bucks, usually its the law : Inovate or die
I wouldn't mind you in my head, if you weren't so clearly mad -Lews Therin Telamon
As bad as Microsoft has become over the years, they were needed at the time ( some odd 15 years ago or so ).
We needed their marketing power to jumpstart the PC market, as the more talented companies like Apple just weren't going to do it.
Forcing a pseudo standard via their monopolistic practices is what brought us to this point, and I don't think we would have advanced as far as we have if we still had 20 companies running around catering to hobbyists or niche markets..
However, the need for this has passed. Its time for the giant to step aside and let the rest of us get back to work. They if course will not go down with to a long and expensive fight. But their time has come and gone, its just a matter of how long will they keep flapping around like a beached whale before they concede to reality.
( A similar thing is just now starting to happen in the 'entertainment industry' as well )
---- Booth was a patriot ----
"Why use Microsoft if you have a broadband connection and combine Firefox with powerful web services like Google's Gmail?"
What would happen if my connection to the internet went down. Or when online servers that host the service goes down. Google is good but everyone makes mistakes. For some people, a few hours of downtime for email could be disastrous.
And if you rely on some application to be available all the time when you need it, its best to have it on your own computer.
Also what about the flexibility that is available with keeping your data on your system? Even if its an Microsoft proprietary data format or whatever, there's always people out there willing to hack it down for open use.
But if its sitting on some server somewhere far away, where its exclusive access to you, is via a browser, the number of choices on what you could do with your data are alot fewer.
I actually think that Microsofts battle is on a different front. I think they have lost the mindshare of the public. With all the bad rap and the competing good rap on other alternatives it seems that the user is becoming less tolerant to the faults.
About a year or two ago, most users dodn;t moan too much about the BSOD's or the virus/worm attacks. Heck they didn;t even bugger too much about functionality problems. Nowadays, however, I hear much more moaning and frustration.
If microsoft loses the attitude of the user then I think their model is broken.
-if at first you don't succeed, stay the heck away from paragliding.
Why use Microsoft if you have a broadband connection and combine Firefox with powerful web services like Google's Gmail?
Because if I just use firefox and gmail without an OS I won't get anywhere? Maybe with all that zeal our poster could have said something "Why use Internet Explorer if you have a broadband connection and combine Firefox with powerful web services like Google's Gmail?"
Well maybe I wasn't graced with a g-mail account (yes many people are in that boat, and many people don't even know of gmail). Maybe I use something other then firefox or IE. Maybe I like my yahoo or hotmail, etc.
I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
At the end of this movie, Steve Jobs says to Bill Gates, "We're better than you," to which Gates replies, "You just don't get it... That doesn't matter!" This still holds true today. It doesn't make any difference if Microsoft has no imagination or invention because the mass of consumption and forces of conformity give them room to sit back and relax. While others need to innovate, MS only needs to assure their customers that the stolen ideas will come a few months later. (Or years later.)
A software house has to innovate or be replaced by a software house that does innovate?
How is that news? That is the primary fact of the software market. Since the core markets for software are totally saturated and "over-featured" that shifts the focus from innovating on existing products to innovating in the arena of pricing models. That is exactly what is happening.
Mysql is not an innovative database; instead the pricing model for Mysql is the innovation.
That said, I've been watching MS for decades now. They never ever give up. My guess is that once the current "monopolist" leadership retires, a younger, more innovative crew will take over the company and start mixing proprietary software, OSS software and services to deliver a new pricing model.
If you combine MS's brand recognition, market penetration, and massive warchest with truly "cool" products priced appropriately, they will be a even greater powerhouse and effectively leave Linux (but not OSS applications) in its niche.
Did you compare the number of security holes on each browser that allowed remote access to the system? Yes, we see Mozilla/Firefox bugs all the time, but they are fixed quicked, and far less severe. I do believe the last "bug" in Firefox/Moz that gave system access was actually do to a bug with Windows shell extensions, and the developers still went out of their way to work around it so people wouldnt be affected.
Must say OS X having *nix type thing at back confuses geeks.
OpenOffice, Firefox, GIMP... OK, I know I will get flamed but none of them can race with "native" stuff of OS X. OS X user doesn't mean a GIMP fan automatically. OK, I respect GIMP but.. Photoshop CS? Come on.
Forget Longhorn etc, OS X is currently years ahead of Windows and Linux combined.
If user can't get Services menu working when he selects any object, forget racing with Apple and especially Adobe.
BTW- I won't buy Photoshop CS to home and Elements are too Light. So, just want to give reality check. Hope one day GIMP becomes professionals choice.
I heard from Someone Who Would Know that they could forego all income and pay all their staff at full salary for at least three years.
Get thee glass eyes, and, like a scurvy politician, seem to see things thou dost not.--King Lear
I think you're on to something. Not that MS would do it for spite, but I think if Linux gets more market share, I would think MS would port some of their software to GNU/Linux, or more likely, MS/Linux. They'd be stupid not too. After all, their growth is slowing and to continue growing, they're going to have to find other markets.
Maybe over 10% of one or other section of users but not of everyone I don't think. But since you mentioned it I'll invite you to quote your source please?
Microsoft come to accept that everyone would be happy to tollerate sub-standard products. Blue screens, resource intensive products that lock up more often than not, viruses, security holes, etc. When you are asleep at the wheel you're going to get passed. The fact is that Microsoft isn't going to be the reigning king forever. I fully expect Open Source / Linux to eventually take a majority of the marketshare. Firefox and Thunderbird will go a long way toward introducing others to Open Source, and the benefits of it.
I'm not a troll, but I play one on Slashdot.
Name a company that can seriously put all of there resources together and pose a serious threat to Microsoft?
The problem with Microsoft is that they've become too big and they have way too many products.
There's not a single company who can fight with Microsoft. But all of them are fighting with them: Sony, Nintendo (xbox), Linux, mac os x, solaris (windows), mysql, postgresql, oracle, IBM DB2 (ms sql), firefox, opera (ie), google, yahoo (search engine, MSN), openoffice (office)
Microsoft just can't win. After having 95%+ of market share in desktops they need to search a way to grow even more to satisfy the stock buyers, so they fight in every market. And they can fight against a single or a few companies, but not against the whole IT industry
Wow, way to take a stab in the dark. Unfortunately, you're wrong, I'm not MS fanboi. Better luck next time! Maybe you should remember to take your medication.
This is a popular misconception.
Long before their bank-balance reached zero, investors would be dumping MS shares on the market in order to get rid of them. The prices of the shares would drop, the value of the company would drop and, in turn, so would that bank balance even more.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
Where's the reference to Microsoft as a ``beleaguered'' company?
Gather around everyone, P. Diddy's on /.!
Though I'll decry Microsoft's problems, I do use their products often (usually as I have no choice). What I've found is this - Microsoft will fight and Microsoft will think.
The fights they pick we may not like. The plans they make we may not agree with. But the company is a self-survival machine and it's managed to do quite well for itself. Like it or not, they got to the top.
It may not always be on top. It may have to share the top. But they've got a deep war chest and people who are damned smart.
If Microsoft has weak points its inertia and the ability to adapt effectively. Microsoft sometimes takes too long to get things done, and some Microsoft plans seem to be less than stellar.
It won't go away. But the Microsoft of 10 years from now will NOT be the Microsoft of today.
"The Sage treasures Unity and measures all things by it" - Lao Tzu
Any post that doesn't bend over and get buggered by the phallic symbol that is Linux will by default be moded Troll/FlameBait.
On the other hand, to be moded +5 Insightful just post something like 'Linux does this much better than M$ Windows' (Topic agnostic comment)
Is Slashdot really overrun only by morons who think that Linux is beyond reproach? For gods sake people Windows and Linux have great S/W written for them.
And look, I didn't even prefix my post with something like 'I use Linux but...'
Mods, do your stuff to me.
If it wasn't MSFT, it would be IBM. Or Novell. Or Lotus. Or ... Google. Any company whose business model is like MS', whose products are like MS', is going to come under "attack" from the market. For "attack", read: "Educated consumers switching to a better product". This is not zealotry, this is years of MS growing crusty, expensive and bloated. Sound like IBM In the 80s? MS is going to have to adapt, like any other organism, or it will be replaced by faster and more efficient organisms (companies).
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
Perhaps in the not-too-distant future there will be some tool out there that will ensure 100% compatibility and transferability of proprietary systems to open solutions. Sure, there are jumps and fits today in that direction, but we are not at that magical point yet.
To that end, it really is Microsoft's challenge to 'innovate' enough to stay ahead of the Linux pack while not biting off so much that the product never ships (aka Longhorn).
Like many Windows users, you seem to forget that OSS != Linux.
You can run Windows and happily install Firefox, GAIM, OpenOffice, The Gimp and a host of other OSS applications on Windows.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I still think it was the marketing that made the difference.
I was also an ST user, but I had to do the leg work myself. I had to be a 'fan'. One store in town.. No ads.. Hell, lots of people here didn't even know there was such a beast as a 'Atari Computer'... Apple was marginally better, they had 2 stores.. and did market to schools and ad agencies ( the niche markets, that get you nowhere in the long run )
In my area the 'business world' was still running all sorts of things, but yes DOS was high on the list.. which helped get the funds needed to do proper marketing ( and subsequent control of the competition )
When 'windows' appeared, it came at me via the news and was forced down my throat.. It was hard to avoid the marketing machine.
Being in the right place at the right time is meaningless if you don't act on it..
But to be honest, its al theory, no one really knows what would have happened 'just if'.. This is just my opinion from having grown up in the middle of the entire thing....
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Microsoft has not lost its ability to innovate because its people aren't smart any more. They have not lost their ability to innovate because they just don't have any more great ideas. They have not lost their ability to innovate because of poor management or leadership.
Microsoft has lost its ability to create innovative products for three reasons:
1) The company is now run by HR, which is forcing a politically correct agenda into the rank and file. The biggest head on this hydra is the review process, where you are reviewed by your direct manager. From this review comes rewards and longevity at the company. Because of the onerous process, people tend to drift into comfortable spots where they have a great relationship with their manager, and stay there. If you don't do this, you run the risk of being one of the lower echelon that is managed out of the company. There is no peer review, the system encourages favoritism. The process is completely destructive to innovation, you do what your manager wants, not what is right for the company. They are different things.
2)Microsoft cannot move innovation from the research groups into the product groups because the product groups are completely disfunctional and understaffed. Once the 35% y/y growth stopped, it became all about revenue, and headcount became a scarce commodity that had to be completely justified. Because of this, the resource pool is spent on the most critical areas, which tend to be test and sustaining engineering, and whatever Bill wants to fund this year. This leaves little for new features and innovation. In fact, the feature list for Office has over a thousand new features on it, they can fund maybe 30. The 30 are picked by Sinofski or Bill. The rest are dropped. Work from Research is ignored.
3)Employee morale is at an all time low. The place is just not fun to work at any more. The stock option program is gone, replaced by a stock award program that gives the employee one-tenth the leverage they had with options. The stock has been flat for 5 years. The will and desire of the average employee is gone. It's just a job.
Microsoft has to address these three problems in order to remain competitive. I, personally, do not believe they can fix these issues. It will take them a long time to die, and it will be painful to watch, but they will join the ranks of AT&T, DEC, SUN and the long list of other one-time greats.
A most overlooked advantage to owning a computer is if they foul up there's no law against wacking them around a bit.
ohh here we have a tipical troll. And since I am quite naive, I will bite his bait...
Sure Photoshop has huge advantages over gimp. And for the simple fact that gimp don't work natively with CMYK make it quite useless for people who want to create stuff for printing. But gimp is very useful and compares head to head with PS in other realms, like making images for the internet for instance.
Sure the PS (photoshop) cell pohone has a camera built in and maybe an MP3 player. But not all people need those. Sure the gimp cell phone may seem a little strange to some, but it is hardly two tin cans and a string.
[]'s Victor Bogado da Silva Lins
^[:wq
"My opinions are my own, and I've got *lots* of them!"
Gates' IE might be better than FireFox. Because Gates' intranet is built (presumably) for IE-feature applications. And, most importantly, because his intranet is secured by a huge staff of people with some of the latest IE bug reports. That unique bubble is keeping Gates, and his minions, out of touch with the security nightmares his products create for his customers.
MS has long been kept ahead by its huge external developer program. But IE bugs can't be addressed by those developers, because the source is secret. Ironically, that integration between app developers and the market is OSS' true strength. Exactly where MS has made its greatest success. Will Gates finally starve up in his ivory silicon tower?
--
make install -not war
Thus comes the problem: which comes first - the chicken or the egg
Gamers aren't going to switch without the Programers making Games for [Insert Non-MS OS here]
Programers aren't going to switch without the gamers.
It's the same reason that 64 bit programing hasn't really taken off. Without the proccessors and the OS, programers have nothing to program for (I am talking main stream... not servers)
Sure there are some emulators and the ability to play games on other systems gets better with time, but until the latest and greatest play on Other OS's right out of the box. The options are getting better, but it's like TIVO - There are some options out there that are better. But the easiest option is what works for most people. the learning curve is to steep.
As for me - HL2, WoW, SWKotOR, etc... those are why I buy my machines. I can play them hassle free on WinXP and with a little knowledge, vigilince and good setup have a secure box - What reason do I have to switch?
The average person who doesn't self-identify as a nerd doesn't moan about Microsoft sucking. Look at their total market share. Sure it might slip a few percentage points here and there, but it's still huge, which shows that the majority of people still buy their products. Claims that they've "lost their midshare" are ridiculous when you consider that there's no other OS that even comes close in terms of market share.
Bash Microsoft all you want, but don't underestimate them.
Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
Hmm, I work in a big building full of people who use computers for more than Email, Web and Gaming. It's this strange custom called a J O B -- you Linux users should try it sometime.
When I first read this, I thought it was a new Windows worm.
Microsoft is going to die because there is better technology out there? That's a newsflash. There has always been better technology. DOS and Windows were never better than Mac OS. DEC had great technology. That didn't stop them from dieing. If technology was the driver for a company's success we would all be running Xerox software.
Microsoft is rich. They could give away everything they make for free for 20-50 years before going bankrupt.
No, they couldn't. MS is based largely on their stock value - their actual physical assets are pocket change compared to that.
It would be headline news if MS quarterly profit would fall. If they started losing money, you'd read it in the mainstream press, front page, above the fold.
All that negative press and the past history, plus the fact that they don't really have much to back up the stock means that stock prices would plummet.
Yes, MS could survive for a while on their cash alone. However, once they get to that level, they would have to, because stock holders would be selling like crazy.
They might recover, but it's unlikely that they would, because everyone and their dogs would use the opportunity to look for alternatives. When your company is built on the product of someone who is making headlines as going down the drain, you pretty much have no choice but to investigate alternate options, or your stock holders will hang you for being careless.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
They could give away everything they make for free for 20-50 years before going bankrupt.
So nice to see clueless moderators mod this nonsense up. NOT!
Get your bloody facts straight!
Wenn ist das Nunstueck git und Slotermeyer? Ja! Beiherhund das Oder die Flipperwaldt gersput.
M$ is the biggest due to corporate usage -The massess are not going to switch until the systems they work with on a daily basis do. Peolple buy M$ because thats what they use at work. Familiarity and fear.Fear of the unknown and of being "left out". Period.
Linux isn't "harder" and Mac is still out on the fringe of what people will commit their dollars to.
They will remain huge in the same way that Mcdonalds, Starbucks, Nike, and General Motors stay huge. Omnipresence. People just wont commit their hard earned money to something new - experimental. America loves the overdog.
Now, if a few mega-corps switch - then others will follow and the backlash could be huge for M$ because nobody would switch back. Thats the big M$ fear. Once people see the light.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinion, but not their own facts." ~The Honorable Daniel Patrick Moynihan
but let's face it, Picassa is a great app and the price is right!
Picassa needs to get its own camera download interface and replace Microsoft POS. Let's see, I've just downloaded images from a camera, what do you want to do? Thanks to Microsoft, you get two options:
1) Upload to web (Microsoft approved, of course)
2) Print online (Microsoft approved, of course)
What crap.
More
...while Google's free Picasa will meet the everyday needs of most consumers. :(
But only runs on Win32/IE 5+...
I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
Well, I've seen figured cited at anywhere from 8% to a patently unbelievable 35%, but 10% or so seems to be the most common. Here's one study.
Warning: Apple/Nintendo fangirl. Likes her electronics cute & cuddly. May be rabid.
Mac ownership = installed user base... don't have figures on that but in the late 90's it was around 50 million.
Market share means percentage of what's being sold, a useful figure for projecting influence and company health, but it's generally confused with 'how many Macs are out there being used' -- especially by trade press.
The long service life of Macs adds significantly to the installed user base. I'd like to see more reliable recent figures, if anyone knows where I can find them.
These stats are part of an overall climate of FUD, the fog of commercial war; the stats on media player usage are equally confusing.
Damn those pesky terrorists
y3s!! h3 t0t4lly f0rg0t M$N!! LOL :D :P (b)
shows that the majority of people still buy their products
I would suggest that the majority of people buy a computer which has MS products pre-installed. Very few people actually go out and buy MS products.
- - - - - - - - - - -
I am a programmer. I am paid to produce syntax not grammar. Deal with it.
Is X-Box going to displace Sony in the console space?
Are the (current) minority of Linux servers and desktops going to be running Windows anytime soon?
Is MS Office going to be able to compete when applications move even more web-based and Adobe/Macromedia are sat there waiting?
Is MS going to be able to displace Apple iPod and iTunes from the music player market?
On the "gadget" front, no-one can decide yet whether they want Pocket PCs with or without cameras and mobile phones. Symbian is there already, some embedded Linux is there also, Windows Mobile is a player but this market hasn't settled yet.
Add to that, OSS apps are making small bites into the Windows desktop - Firefox, Thunderbird, OpenOffice.
Historically, Microsoft has survived through constant expansion but the areas it's now trying to expand into have those "immovable boulders" already sat there.
MS won't die through shrinkage, it'll die through lack of expansion because the moment that happens, the shareholders and investors will leave in their droves.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
Someone here said that Microsoft has become a dull and boring place, and I tend to believe it has. I think their engineers have lost the spice to create really cool things, because we can see that in the evolution of windows. Since Windows 95 we have seen the START taskbar... below. And the only differences are nicer graphics and more compatibility with hardware and games. That is basically it.
And frankly by the look of things, Longhorn is just looking to be a big fat white elephant. Longhorn will be Microsoft's downfall. Nothing the OS has is impressive, not glass, not Aero... basically its more gloatware... The only thing it had that was amazing, IMHO, was the WinFX foundation and that got ripped out.
But to say Microsoft entirely is doomed is an overstatement. While I think Microsoft's downfall will be the OS Longhorn, it will rise from the ashes with the new Xbox 360. I guess while they are not innovating on the Desktop they are doing it on the Living Room. So all is not lost for Microsoft.
In that sense the competition they are getting heavily from Apple will either put them on their toes or bring them to their knees, specially if more governments around the world choose to dump Microsoft for cheaper and better functioning Open Source solutions.
That is why I strongly believe Longhorn won't be the event they think it will be. The most important group of people that has to upgrade their systems and wont do it in the first 5yrs is the corporate sector. The consumer will prolly upgrade to Longhorn, but not that quickly as you think they can. Mostly because the hardware requirements to run LH with all the bells and whistles are short of obscene and your average PC comes with a Intel Video graphics card that sucks... But on the other hand, their innovative new Xbox 360 will do everything you wanted to do in the living room and will change the way the living room is. In that department SONY doesnt have a chance.
Everything that is important will happen this summer and by the end of the summer we are going to be well aware of who is winning the war of Microsoft vs The World.
Nom de dieu de putain de bordel de merde de saloperie de connard d encule de ta mere.
No, he meant "better for me because it's under my control". He's right about that of course.
And that's also one of his biggest problems. He doesn't see any way of making profits through collaboration, but only through total control.
This is why he wasn't able to do the obvious thing of throwing out the Windoze kernel and replacing it with a FOSS one, even if it were BSD. Loss of total control (he'd end up playing catch-up, which doesn't worry the more sane Jobs in the slightest) is anathema to him.
and gaming
And for many, gaming is also the web. Freecell.com, Yahoo games, Neopets.com, etc.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
No, I think you are mistaking cash for net worth. MS has (last I heard, though before the big dividend) $56 Billion in cash, where cash is defined as literal money in the bank and short term low risk investments (T-bills, etc). MS's net worth is far higher.
My main use for Windows is to terminal emulate onto a real operating system. Its nice that they supply a 3GHz ssystem to do it from, but in reality its nothing a firefox extention couldnt handle.
Most big businesses are running internal applications that are increasingly being supplied with browser interfaces (all the better to outsource you, my dear).
**TODO** Steal someone elses sig.
Like many Windows users, you seem to forget that OSS != Linux.
What's your point? They talked about Linux *and* other free software in the article (OpenOffice, Firefox, *and* Linux). I am not a "Windows user" (as you are using it condescendingly) and I do understand the difference between Linux and OSS TYVM.
lets have, ooh, say, a hundred different linux advocacy websites. Then all we need is some sort of web forum where we can all bicker about which flavour is better and why, endlessly and repeatedly...
it was once said "noone ever got fired for buying IBM".
IBM were arrogant, dictated prices, killed off 3rd party compatibility and used FUD to defend themselves. IBM dominated the computer business, so much so that their personal computer system, based on the 8088, was able to defeat the many rivals which were much more sophisticated. Many people despised IBM, and people loved Microsoft for as the latter offered the freedom and flexibility people wanted.
IBM fell from grace, and Microsoft rose up as the Good Guys.
Microsoft are now arrogant, dominate the market, kill third party products off using undocumented APIs + patents + incompatibilities caused by random patching changes. People despise Microsoft's attitude.
Meanwhile, IBM have embraced OpenSource and are often seen as the Good Guys.
People think Microsoft are unstoppable... but will they collapse under their own legacies? Will another organisation take their place and dominate, and could that be Apple (IMHO not) or IBM (IMHO not). Can Sun Microsystems return from the dead with Solaris on x86?
Personally, I can't wait till the antique architecture and 8088-compatibility legacy of the x86 dies forever. The PowerPC architecture is sweet; Sun's sparc is not bad at all. Arm is almost too primitive (ideal for handhelds). Alpha has been killed by HPaq. It's an exciting time to be an observer, and I'm glad I'm not betting the farm on which computing platform and OS will be the next king!
then you're not making sense.
"If an admin isn't skilled enough to run linux, then they shouldn't be in charge of *any* system. They are not qualified regardless of their years of experience or degree/certificates"
But they're NOT ADMINS. They're HOME USERS. Do you think all home users should have to pay an admin to come in and setup their machine, much like you might have to pay an electrician to come in and do your wiring before you turn on a light?
Hang on. This isn't actually that bad an idea...!
Sorry, in this instance, the egg needs to come before the chicken. We need linux ports of popular games before gamers can make the switch completely.
Until the droves are playing Counterstrike, Half Life 2, World of Warcraft, Everquest #, on linux, linux will not be considered a gamers OS.
And don't even get me started on the driver support for Linux. Gaming hardware companies need to give Linux more attention before game developers start developing for linux.
ID software, perhaps you've heard of them, understands this principle and releases both binaries with their games. They don't do this just for the cool factor. ID understands what's up.
Perhaps one of the most damaging moves for games being developed for Linux was the release of the xbox. This has locked a lot of developers looking to get in on the console cash cow to developing with Microsoft's DirectX. If you're slated to release something on the xbox and PC at the same time, no game developer is going to make a seperate open GL port when they are already using directX.
A "Gmail appliance" wouldn't be any threat at all to Exchange unless it included the calendaring features.
:)
This is where the OSS community really has been a dismal failure - calendaring. Sorry, Sunburd does not cut it. Can you designate rights to other users? Schedule resources? Schedule groups? Either no, or nowhere near the level that Exchange/Outlook provides.
Like another poster said, there's more than just the web and email.
Well, they have 60 billion in cash and 27 billion total yearly (in 2004) operating expenses (20 billion in 2002). So in theory they could survive for 2 or 3 years giving EVERYTHING away for free and not making any money at all.
"'This is not the home of the future,' says Cynthia Crossley, who is in charge of Microsoft's Windows operating system in the UK. 'All the technology can be bought off-the-shelf and fits subtly into your home.'" ...and all you need is an IT staff of five to keep it all running. I forsee some pretty interesting results coming from hacked bread recipies.
Meanwhile, Apple has wireless home audio distribution working perfectly, installable in seconds, and usable by mere mortals. It's called Airport Express, and also provides remote printing and inherently extends the coverage of your wireless network.
Too bad most people will never know about it... gotta love Apple marketing.
For moderators: according to the parent link, they have 60 billion in cash and 27 billion total yearly (in 2004) operating expenses (20 billion in 2002).
So in theory they could survive for 2 or 3 years giving EVERYTHING away for free and not making any money at all.
Anyone who really decides to be honest with themselves will have to admit that the "support" of most commercial products is dismal. Usually you end up reinstalling something, which doesn't give you a CLUE as to what was wrong, or why it happened. And to top it all off, you get to PAY for this "support" in many situations.
You can purchase the same kind of support from several Linux vendors, as others have pointed out. I haven't had any experience yet with the Linux vendors, but I can only hope they're more competent.
I pose this as a serious question.
.NET framework, either VB.NET or C# (I use C#) and SQL Server make a superb environment to work in for building either WinForms or ASP.NET.
... its hard to justify messing with PHP and not much more than a text editor for tools.
/. sometimes makes me wonder if I'm backing the wrong horse here. Am I blinded by the hype, stupid, gullible, naive or doing the right thing here? So far my choice of platform is getting pretty good results.
I'm a sole inhouse developer in a company with about 100 employees. I build specialized desktop and web tools for sales and logistics and stuff for presenting info to customers etc. Nothing I do is really rocket science but off the shelf tools just don't do what we want so its worth keeping me around. We're a typical company in many ways. MS Office on every desktop.
I've done some private / volunteer projects using LAMP, I've fiddled with Java, I maintain a Linux web host for a non-profit. I consider myself a reasonably competent programmer despite having written many thousands of lines of VB6.
For someone in my position, right now, Visual Studio, the
MSDN is a great resource.
ASP.NET is finally moving web development out of the stone age with real debugging and abstraction from the tedium of html. According to MS, the new version will be all W3C compliant and yes they do test with FireFox. I'm coming to the concluson that nothing really comes close to ASP.NET for ease of development for web projects. I've used several PHP frameworks. Prado is very cool and I was planning on using it for another volunteer project for a non-profit I'm involved with but good ASP.NET web hosts are appearing, complete with SQL Server that don't cost a lot more per month than LAMP so
Reading
Well, that's only true if the two tin cans have the worst, most convoluted interface that could be conceived... Perhaps two tin cans that you need to stand on your head to use....
...when someone claims that users shouldn't have Macs or "non-Windows" because of the cross-platform issues?
Macs & Linux boxes are *excellent* cross-platform machines, but all it takes is one little "tweak" from Microsoft to really screw everything up.
An excerpt from the firefox forums I posted to : http://forums.mozillazine.org/viewtopic.php?t=2510 92&highlight=
# IE has a very usable FTP 2-way client, Firefox has an FTP browser only.
# IE has a better password-remembering system.
# Firefox's Ctrl-F doesn't seem to search input form fields.
# IE's "mouse select jumps to word boundaries" is not perfect but better than Firefox's character based model.
# Ctrl-N in IE brings up a clone of the current window, complete with history. Firefox opens up my startpage...redundant, because I can easily launch it from the start menu.
# Ctrl-T in Firefox opens up a new and utterly blank tab...even more useless than the Ctrl-N behavior!
# IE shows undisplayable characters with box placeholders, Firefox uses question marks.
# Tabbing in Firefox doesn't doesn't reset the cursor blink cycle, or something, so you don't get instant confirmation that you're typing in the correct box.
# IE has better drag and drop editing of the toolbars, including the "File Edit View" bar. (I like compressing that bar, 5 small buttons, and the address bar all on one line.)
# Ctrl-O in firefox is the normal file open dialog...not as useful as IE's URL-or-file-browse feature.
# I wish Firefox had an option to let each tab have its own close button...often I want to quickly close a bunch of tabs based on their title, but instead I have to switch to each one and close it seperately.
Some of those are just matters of opinion, none are that that major, but IE does have some usability pluses.
SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
Either way, microsoft is aware it will face tougher competition in the future, not only from the current big market players like apple, oracle or adobe. They will have to deal with newcomers from the the asian market. China is pushing linux based desktops in their government administration and will be funding new software development companies to develop software for their needs. This would mean that these companies get financial reserves to fund other developments (commercial) and build a firm base against set software houses like MS or all the others. So why do we keep bothering attacking MS when the future will show that we didn't even needed to waste our time on it.
It should be said, tho', that articles like this have been written about MSFT for a long time - and there's still billions in their war-chest.
Has Microsoft paid out its big one-time dividend of $32B yet? Awfully nice of them to get rid of their only hope for medium-term profits.
Moderation 0
30% Overrated
30% Underrated
20% Troll
I guess I'm an overrated underrated troll.
cue the bad 80s soul...ooh-mm-mmmh
But other than the advantages of PS that you mentioned, The Gimp's biggest failing is its user-interface. It's simply not intuitive for most people, as far as I can see, and the learning curve seems to simply be far too steep to justify its use.
For example, given a machine with both The Gimp and Photoshop, and a person who has never used either... seriously, which one will they have a preference for after trying both for just a few minutes? Bet you anything they'd pick Photoshop. The Gimp, unfortunately for itself, seems to be a more acquired taste.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
I've dealt with a lot of commercial 3rd party support schemes, and I have to say, my experience has been extremly positive with regards to Open source.
I remember a big CORBA corporation, won't name them or their product, but it was basically an ORB. We had used their stuff for previous versions of our product, but it was unstable and a nightmare to maintain. Just to give you an example, telnetting into their software that was attached to our process, would kill the whole server by just typing a random character!!!
So one day they started asking us "how much money we make" with our product, and wanted to charge us a % of the profits we make! Not only that, they wanted to charge us in the HUNDREDS OF THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS, for their new support scam to be renewed in a yearly basis. Oh, and the new version of their orb required us to recode our app!
So when they told us this, one of my co-workers had been testing JacORB. Turns out this our software was faster, more stable and ran in more platforms than the one from the comercial vendor!
Not only that, but when we had problems, we usually got responses the same day. We even got sent code to patch the software for some problems! All of this FOR FREE!
I have no problem paying for tech support, but a lot of this support is not only too expensive, but it's very slow and no, it's not much better than the message boards or mailing lists of some of the open source products. Try dealing with Oracle tech support and exchaging code with them, to see how slow it is to get them to fix problems.
- sigs are for wimps.
More along the lines of: GIMP::Photoshop New Military Technology::Tired old civilian technology Photoshop is ok, but GIMP is better. Have you ever even used it? The interface is a bit rough around the edges, less so these days than the past, but it has an enourmous amount of power behind it.
How do you figure?
Photoshop is the compilation of years of work, hundreds of millions of dollars in R&D, and -- most importantly -- over 15 years of industry feedback and exposure. Adobe has crafted Photoshop to fit real world needs, based on input from people who actually use it in a professional setting.
Indeed, at this point, it's impossible to say which has more influence: industry over Photoshop, or Photoshop over industry.
The GIMP, while an admirable effort -- and certainly one worth continuing -- is nowhere NEAR ready to take a place on the professional stage. Just the lack of native CMYK support alone is enough to render it useless for pretty much every company, individual graphic designer, and photographer I can think of.
Saying that the GIMP's interface "is a bit rough around the edges" exposes you as an enthusiast, but probably not a professional user (that is, one who earns his living off of graphic design). The difference between a good, familiar interface and a rough, unfamiliar interface can translate into massive ammounts of lost time. At this point, after 15 years, the Photoshop interface has become something of a standard; when you open a graphic design program you expect certain hotkeys to do certain things, certain menus to be in certain places, and certain tools to work certain ways. Everything that deviates from those expectations translates into lost time. The GIMP is rife with breaks from the "standard" interface.
I know that slashdot is hardly the place for Adobe users, but uninformed "our OSS product is better because it's free" thinking is bad for all of us. I'd love to be able to replace Photoshop with the GIMP some day, and maybe I will. But if people really believe that the GIMP is a viable replacement for Photoshop today, I fear that day will never come.
-F.
student of animation and the fine arts
Luckily, no one releases games for the XBox.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
That's if they are unable to cut back their expenses.
I use Photoshop for 'drawing' shapes and text, and then applying their supplied effects. Gimp is far from sufficient for me (what? no pre-stocked vector shapes library? Pshaw!), so I find it amusing when people claim it's 'ahead' of Photoshop. In other words, I concur with your acquired taste assessment.
The computer using experience for most is: email, web surfing (this includes shopping on eBay) and gaming.
Your post mostly refers to home users.
What about word processing and other office applications, which is the #2 application in my office (after Email/Outlook)?
94% of Repubs and 21% of Dems voted to renew the Patriot Act
I use Linux, so with me to rely on for help, so does my father (actually I have very little to do to keep is PC going, his website is another matter.
MS's hold on the market will not disappear overnight, but it is definitely weakening.
My family and friends now know they are more likely to get help from me if they use Linux than if they sue Windows - not that I am boycotting MS or anything, its simply easier to help with what I am more familiar with.
You're spot on. I started out using PS 2.0 and the interface is what keeps me from using GIMP. I've tried, but I really don't want to devote the time needed to make the switch. Free is nice, but my time isn't free.
Defecation occurs.
I looked and noticed that in less than 2 years, Bill Gates has unloaded 234.5 million shares or nearly 25% of his total holdings. Does anybody know why he's doing this? Is it to fund his foundation? Is he diversifying? I find it difficult to believe he's spending the proceeds. Even he would find it tough to spend over 5 billion dollars in two years.
Microsoft has real problems and here is why - they approach the market reactively, "innovating" by relying on surveys, focus groups, market analysis, whatever you want to call it. To sum it up -
if (no complaint)
stick to status quo
else
fix complaint
The problem is that complaints are usually symptoms of larger problems, and by tacking on simple fixes, Microsoft usually just ends up with a convoluted framework for whatever product they happen to be fixing.
Your average joe doesn't understand the potential of new technology, he is just reacting to the new-fangled features you just put in. This is why technology design by survey fails miserably. You need someone who fully understands what is at the edge of current technology, and who can creatively apply it in ways that enhance the average joe's life. I don't get the impression that Ballmer gets this idea. In fact, I have heard through the grapevine that the problem is ingrained in Microsoft company culture, and no one challenges it, because the company is conservatively micro-managed from the top.
Microsoft gets away with this model because the average joe is unaware of innovative concepts while they are new, before Microsoft has copied them. But the software remains clunky, akin to cars of the old days, where you cranked the thing up by hand and put up with the smell, noise, and the breakdowns - because there was still a tangible benefit. People thought this was the nature of cars back then, and accepted it because they couldn't see any better. Better engineering will eventually make computer systems easier to use and more reliable, analagous to what the Japanese did to the auto industry. Aside from good design the Japanese automakers popularized the use of statistics to test their components to make sure the performed reliably, carefully revising materials and design based on what worked, rather than going with the what was most available on the market. The computer industry could use that same sense of perfection, followed through with design by people who understand both people and the techonology, and of course lots of unit testing.
Microsoft hasn't re-invented itself as management would like shareholders to think, it has only re-hashed itself into something superficially better in order to avoid any more slip. Until the old guard leaves, that isn't likely to happen. This can be witnessed in the company's financials - growth continues, but is slowing in a growing market, despite a monopoly. If you want to make some dough, invest in some Apple stock and watch Microsoft sink in the long run - since it is pretty clear that they will be sticking to their guns with Ballmer. I've never owned a Mac but I've used a few and I see them as the next best thing, especially with the affordable mini model out, a good architecture to boot, and style that drops Microsoft right on its ass.
MS approaches them 'Hey, there's no need to fight, we can work together.', and they pull a shotgun and say 'Get off my property right now. We saw what happened to the last dozen companies you worked with.'
IBM's gone so far as to set it up where they don't even have to buy from them anymore.
The only people teaming up with them are desperate, because they're being nibbled to death by the same ducks that MS is, like Sun is by Linux.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
I think the interesting point that this article raises is that Microsoft is no longer able to bully its competition. Back in the days of the web browser wars and even the GUI wars Microsoft was able to win because it could either undercut, buy out, or out lawyer any corporation on the planet. In the absense of innovation and an active monopoly these appear to be Microsofts only weapons and they are all neutured by OSS. You can't undercut or buy-out free software, and the global nature of OSS seems to give lawyers the willies. There is only one thing left for them to try and thats patents, and I don't anybody really wants to open that can of worms, even M$... but they will.
Just as Microsoft needs an Apple, I think OSS needs a Microsoft (if only to keep it on its toes) so I don't want to see M$ die completely just reduce its market share to a healthy 30-50%. But I'd also like to see them release some decent products. I can't remember the last time I saw some Microsoft software and thought "Hey thats cool!". They've got the resources what's stopping them?
Scared of flying, pointy things snce 1979!
F/OSS is a different kind of threat, however. in some respects, MS's billions in the bank are about as useful as a battleship in iraq.
pr0n - keeping monitor glass spotless since 1981.
True, but for a lot of people, web and email is all they really use. For those people, any money spent on Microsoft products is a total waste.
Don't drop the soap, Tommy!
Well.......
RMS had a nice job at a nice enterprise, and a great product he could sell (Emacs, yeah, laugh), and he did sell it.
He was in a much better position that Bill Gates at the time.
He could have had some dollars.
He wanted freedom, not power. Well, freedom _is_ power, but is a much nicer power, because it's power to all the users, and not just to some guy.
Of course, I believe RMS does want recognition, or even fame, but if he wanted _power_, there would be no point in copyleft.
GNU is used by lots of people throughout the world, and he has even less power than Linus!!
But that's not accidental, the GPL warrants that!
"there's still billions in their war-chest."
They've already pissed away $37 bilion on a one-time stock prop scheme. What's to stop them pissing away the rest?
If I had "billions" in MY war-chest, we'd have HAL by next Tuesday.
As for Gates claiming IE is a better browser than Firefox: Bwahahahahahahaha!!!! Why am I not using it, then, geek-face?
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
If Microsoft pulls out of the PC buisness, will Apple lower their prices? I think they might since more people would buy it, being the only "preinstalled" OS. Yet if more companies embrace Linux and sell preinstalled versions of it and it becomes much more popular....
All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us
I like Thunderbird as my outlook replacement. It's easy to install, easy to use, and stable. I'm a developer and it's the type of program I strive to write. My wife uses it and has yet to blow it up or complain about how the address book and contacts works. If it passes her test it can pass any user. Trust me on this. I haven't really used Gmail though I do have an account that a zealous friend opened for me. Do you get a deal by enlisting folks or something =). Anyway, I don't have anything against the MS products that don't suffer from bloat, mission creep, are difficult to use, or cost an arm and a leg.... Ok so that leaves one program. Notepad! Love that little app =).
Sooner or later their computer monopoly will die - it was its destiny since they founded it (just like russian communism). You really can't expect to dominate the market by brute force. It works for some years, but then the people begin to look for alternatives.
Open source is like a democracy... it's in its nature to work and succeed.
So what's left for microsoft? To escape from their autoritarian model and rejoin the market they're most successful with: The XBOX.
What we know for sure, is that the Microsoft as we know it today, will no longer exist.
We will - as we take yours.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
It seems that the majority of press is always objective rather than subjective when it comes to matters like this. Especially when they ignite flame wars.
Most of the articles like this will tend to have some good points but are then jacked up with bias that makes reading the article very subjective.
There really needs to be more objective press reports written that are peer reviewed before publication. Its not the most ideal solution but im sure there would be some dam fine articles printed.
If you stopped using windows... developers would have a reason... yaddayadda... Simple economics 101.
If enough people stand in front of a running truck, it'll eventurally stop. OK who goes first?
The Internet is one of the primary reasons to own a computer for many users today. My career is in information technology and most of the time I'm only using my home system for Internet functions. The question about why you would need Microsoft when you have a broadband connection is interesting but, as has been mentioned, leaves out the crucial aspect of the operating system. People are too comfortable with Windows. Dell likes Windows, Gateway likes Windows...everybody distributes Windows...except Wal-Mart...occassionally. Firefox is great, Gmail is really great, but they all have to run on an OS and that OS has to be and I emphasize this...'user friendly'. Some can pick up a OSS operating system and just start using it but definitely not the majority of the market share that has made Windows such a dominant force. Jobs told Gates that Apple was better than Microsoft and Gates told him to some effect "That doesn't matter." (Or something like that) He's right. If you want to crush Microsoft go for it, but good luck. The only reason the Xbox has survived is because they can afford to take hits in major areas and just keep pumping the money into the projects. Heck, the superstar of the Xbox (Halo) was orginially Apple's. Until user-awareness reaches a point where mulitple operating system's have a fighting chance on the user-friendliness ground, Microsoft will continue rolling.
You have of course got it backwards.
The more people turn to Linux for the reason it needs LESS support than Windows, the more likely Microsoft is to go down. And we're talking corporate here, not home users.
It's quite clear from reports of companies using both or Linux alone that Linux requires fewer sys admins - because it causes fewer problems - than Windows. Personnel expense is something that companies pay attention to.
And just as home users are switching to Firefox - 50 million downloads in the last year - for the ease of use, power, flexibility, speed and security, so they will switch to Linux as these points are eventually demonstrated to them as well.
Richard Steven Hack - This sig is TOO GODDAMN SHORT TO DO ANYTHING USEFUL WITH! MORONS!
Like many slashdot users, you seem to forget to RTFA.
I am trolling
We all know how popular that turned out. It was the first, and last, Unix port that Microsoft developed.
Guess who bought it from them? SCO. Guess who is suing Linux developers and users?
Chances are better than Microsoft will license the SCO Unix (Unixware, etc) code and build on that, rather than build on Linux. Being that Microsoft and SCO are "buddy buddy" right now.
Remember, Slashdot does not have a -1 disagree moderation, and no, troll, flamebait, and overrated are not substitutes.
Hardly. The gimp works and works fine. It's more like working phone::fancy phone with mp3 player and camera and stuff on.
I am trolling
Like many Slashdot users, you seem to have forgotten to RTFA.
Grammar Macht Frei!
I used to be one of the photoshop detractors. It's funny what groupthink does when you're part of the creation of it. I really believed gimp was the bees knees because I was contributing to its code, using it, and because I heard all the testimony from other gimp users about how much better than photoshop it must be.
Then I went & used photoshop 5.5 for 45 minutes on my girlfriend's powerbook. Never had such a quick turnaround in my life. I went right back to Gimp, gave it one look and thought "What is this shit?" and stopped caring (and developing) for it.
I'm no graphic artist, but I'll go to the gf's macs before using gimp on my own desktop.
(which Gates himself has used: "I played around with it a bit, but it's just another browser, and IE [Microsoft's Internet Explorer] is better,")
Duh that Gates would say IE is better than firefox.
Asking Gates that question is like asking the CEO of Coca-Cola if Coke is better than Pepsi.
Or like asking the CEO of Adobe if Photoshop is better than GIMP.
For the professional web designer, gimp is plenty good enough. I don't need cmyk, database connectivity with checkin checkout, etc. I need something that can mask, distort, etc. Taken together with Inkscape and the power of xml, for the web designer, gimp is perfect for my use.
Imagine an image that pictures a town crier proclaiming some new 50% off sale. Now imagine a perl script where the client can insert new text into that image and then with the push of a button that new text is uploaded and replaces the old text. Even a non techie can use this when provided a custom interface. This is the power I want and without spending $800.
If a client wants a full sized poster, I'll create then subcontract. It's not like I have the printer for this anyway. But, to the point, I believe someday even this will be unnecessary. So for the purely graphical designer, your right, but only for now.
These articles only partially get it right. Alot of what MS makes their big $ off of is becoming a commodity. It doesn't really even matter if Firefox and OOo are "better". This part of the computer industry will become less and less the sweet spot for growth and innovation. If MS concentrates on these markets but fails in the growths area (connected non-PC devices, web services etc.) then they will die. If they climb to the high ground and are successful, I think one day we will be saying "Remember when MS used to make Office?". As much as I like the open source movement, Apple and Google are MS's real problems. Linux, Firefox, OOo are just commoditizing the trailing edge where MS will lose if they try and key fighting on this front. I mean how much more can you improve office, at some point OOo will catch up.
No argument... I do indeed appreciate the value and ideal behind open source software, but I think I'll wait for GIMP to mature a bit more before I devote more time to it. Call me selfish.
Defecation occurs.
But you did end it with: ;-)
"Mods, do your stuff to me"
which is even more guaranteed to get you a good score. I really wish the mods would just mod people who ask for it down. They ARE asking for it after all, why not oblige?
I confess ;) Much shame is brought on me and my house.
Come on now, really. A black art? Win XP and Mac OS X will both find the SSID for you with no clicky required. The only thing you even have to do is set the WEP key, and you don't even have to do that (thank you neighbors!).
On the plus side, I'm going to start putting "black artist" down as my occupation.
"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face, it's just a goddamned piece of paper!" - George W. Bush Nov. 2005
for Gmail??? It is better to have high speed internet for GMX, Hotmail and others, but Gmail is pretty speedy even on thinbands :-)).
First it came to market after the PS2, so the graphics technology was superior. The second thing is the ease at which it could be "modded".
It didn't do too well in Japan, not sure of the latest figures but it wasn't popular simply because the Japanese like to buy their own products.
XBox360 needs to be superior to the competition again this time, both in technology terms and in terms of software and price.
While Sony's cell chip may be impressive the chances are it will be a pig to code for.
EOM
Reminds me a little of some of the discussions about CoreImage in OS X. There was some thought that this could make it easy for someone to write the fabled Photoshop killer.
The replies I thought most interesting centered on the thought that Photoshop isn't about the filters etc. that CoreImage can do. Its about a very refined set of editing tools, and even more important, the way Photoshop has been integrated into the workflow for print and eleectronic publication.
The ability to script out something like that sounds great - if I was in situations like that often enough and knew perl worth a dime I'm sure I'd be interested in it. Though let's be honest - for most of us it's hardly the kind of thing that's going to decide the difference between the GIMP and Photoshop.
At first, the GIMP sounds great if all you want to do is web design and non-print work. After all, you don't want to spend too much extra money if you won't need the tool's extra functions. But there's a lot more work out there for those of us who do choose to work for print, as well as non-print, and for a mere $600 (because really, in terms of art software, $600 is pretty cheap) it's hardly worth thinking twice about it. And what's more, the problem of interface still stands. Even if all you want to do is digital work, and never work in print, the GIMP's interface remains an issue. If you decide to go down that route, great, you can trade X hours in learning the interface for a $600 savings. For you, that may work - for me, especially since I work in print as well as on the web, it's impractical, and that holds true for my colleagues - I've never worked with someone who uses the GIMP regularly.
If things change in the future and the GIMP becomes a more viable option I'll be one of the first to jump ship. But for now I'll stick with Photoshop - $150 upgrades every year or two is less than I'm paying to play World of Warcraft, so I'm not complaining =) Who knows, perhaps you'll subcontract one of those posters to me some day =)
student of animation and the fine arts
No, the don't believe their own hype.
They just realize that:
So, web development is Microsoft's worst enemy as it removes the lock-in Microsoft currently has in corporations (a hell of a lot of apps which would have been developed as Win32-apps 10 years ago are now develped as Web apps)
Therefore, the better browsers are, the worse it is for Microsoft.
Yes, the only reason MS built IE was to kill Netscape. After Netscape was dead, IE became a liability because the better IE (or any other browser) is, the more attractive web development becomes compared to pure-Microsoft Win32 development.
..there are a few specialized programs that do exactly what I want the way I want.. foobar, guitarrig, eac, reason.. that I'm just not willing to leave behind.
Other than that, I play the odd game, but my rig's getting out dated again and I'm not sure I'm willing to keep shelling out cash to upgrade. I might just buy an xbox.
However I've played with Ubuntu, and it really *really* makes me wish I had those programs under linux. It's really nice. There's not a heck of a lot that's keeping me on windows.
And for the average person that just needs email, IM and browser, linux looks pretty damn good.
IMO what cinched up the desktop market a few years ago for MS was plug and play. _Every piece of hardware works on windows_. Those of us that remember the day that it wasn't so, remember how huge of a pain in the ass hardware on a pc was; and how totaly insurmountable it was for the average person. If windows didn't expend a huge amount of resources working with hardware vendors to provide plug and play under windows, we might all be using macs right now.
That was always what was holding back linux for years, but it's just not really an issue now.
MS is going to have to pull something major out of it's ass to continue competing in the desktop market.
I have a beef with he article saying that firefox is faster, for me eplorer has always been faster. The article is kind of biased anyway.
For an OS with no useful taskbar or virtual workspaces, sure...
I would say microsoft is attacking everywhere. They are leveraging money and monopoloy into new markets all the time. Yeah there is some competition nipping at their heels, but it is hard to stand in the way of an unchecked monopoly with a huge wad of cash.
PDAs/Smartphones: They keep respinning this and getting better and getting more market share. Any prediction when they hit #1?
Game Consoles/SW: Jan 2007: It is not out of the question to consider that Xbox2 will be the number one gaming console in North America. MS will probably also be a significant publisher (having bought out a pile of gaming companies)
Next Gen DVD: Microsoft had its own compression format placed as one of the mandatory codecs in both formats..
The list could probably go on an on, but anwhere money is being made in large amount MS will be there and eventually will be a significant if not dominant player.
Under-estimate them at your folly.
Haven't you heard of OpenOffice.org lately? You don't need Microsoft to do word processing.
After 3 days without programming, life becomes meaningless
- The Tao of Programming
Slashdot: Where personal anecdotes and broad generalizations can be freely substituted for facts, logic, or even intelligence.
In fact, i'll do that now.
Slashdot: Where anecdotes and generalizations can be freely substituted for facts, logic, or intelligence
Once OpenOffice picks up more steam (namely complete interoperability with all Office suites)
Why such a high bar for OO.o? MS Office doesn't have 100% compatibility with "all" office suites, so why demand this of OO.o?
The original poster said "all Office suites." Note the capitalization. It would be fair that if OO is to be a viable alternative, it should be able to open the documents users have already created on Office. It doesn't do a bad job at this, granted, but it could always improve.
Newsflash! J. Random Person announces, "I went into other people's bathrooms shortly after they've used them, but it's just another odor, and mine [flatulence] smells better."
--Rob
Towards the Singularity.
No Photoshop for Solaris you say?
To further weirden your day, let me also submit this link: MS Internet Explorer for Solaris and HP-UX (Outlook Express is also available).
I choose to remain celibate, like my father and his father before him.
Gates, from TFA: "I played around with it a bit, but it's just another browser, and IE [Microsoft's Internet Explorer] is better,"
How? I mean really. I can't think of one thing it does better. (And please don't bother replying about Active X, even as a joke.)
"So much software gets downloaded all the time, but do people actually use it?"
Just keep telling yourself that. I don't know anyone who has downloaded it, installed it, and NOT continued to use it.
Research shows that 67% of those who use the term "research shows", are just making shit up.
O man I hate that. It's totally frustrating when trying to select something and the GDMF selects additional chars.
Windows is dying.
Which is actually 15%, considering that Firefox, Mozilla, and Netscape all use the same rendering engine (NS4 notwithstanding).
I mean, that is supposed to be the entire idea of capitalism: competition. No?
I suppose that msft has monopolized the desktop for so long, that the very idea of msft having to compete like a normal company is considered peculiar.
Have you ever looked at the Firefox extensions? The Firefox download is tiny, under 5MB[*], because Firefox leaves the "extras" to individual choice.
Most (if not all) of the functionality you are asking for is available. For example:
- FireFTP XUL FTP Client
- Tab and Window Extensions Full control of tab behavior. Specifically, TabX and Tab Browser Preferences.
# Ctrl-T in Firefox opens up a new and utterly blank tab...even more useless than the Ctrl-N behavior!And what would you have it do? Behave like IE where Ctrl-T does nothing at all?
Personally, I dislike IE's "Ctrl-N clones the window" as 90% of the time, that is not what I want.
# Ctrl-O in firefox is the normal file open dialog...not as useful as IE's URL-or-file-browse feature
In Firefox, Ctrl-L sets the focus to the address bar for entering a URL. Ctrl-O opens the file browser. In IE to open a url I can tyle Ctrl-O; Same number of keystrokes as Firefox's Ctrl-L. But, to open local file, I need to type Ctrl-O, TAB, TAB, TAB, Enter (or, I can switch from kbd to mouse to click Browse, then switch back to kbd) to achieve what I can do with Ctrl-O in Firefox.
# I wish Firefox had an option to let each tab have its own close button...often I want to quickly close a bunch of tabs based on their title, but instead I have to switch to each one and close it seperately.
TabX will add a close widget to each tab. Personally, that's too busy to suit me. Plus it's aggravating to click on a tab I wanted to see, only to have it close because I clicked too close to the edge. (Of course, that's why I have UndoCloseTab extension.) Have you tried middle-clicking (scroll wheel) on a tab? It does exactly what you're asking for and is less prone to fumble fingers.
Use Firefox exclusively for a few weeks and I think you'll find that those "usability pluses" are really familiarity and not usability. And if something seems difficult, take a look at the online help, you may be going about things the wrong way. Or, there may be an extension that will do what you want.
[*] The IE installer only looks small; it downloads another 12-60MB when run.
Damn, that's very very well said! If I had mod points, I'd give you +99 extremely highIQ/Insightful/UltraInformative right now.
I find it useful enough that it would be good to have it as a configurable option.
Seriously, what's a realistic ratio of how often you want to select from inside the middle of a word to how often you want to copy the whole thing? I'd say it's a about 1:20 for me, so increasing the "target area" for my mouse to hit is a usability win.
I don't always agree with its rules about whitespace, especially when it comes to HTML markup but even with that, I prefer it to Firefox's old school approach.
And it's funny usually I prefer the simplistic but easier to predict ideal (i.e. Firefox select) to the "DWIM" approach (what IE does) but in this case I've gotten use to the DWIM select and miss it in Firefox.
SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
#IE has a very usable FTP 2-way client, Firefox has an FTP browser only.
I don't recommend anyone use IE's FTP system unless they enjoy corrupted transfers (doesn't it always use ASCII mode or something?) Anyway, a real FTP program is much better.
# IE has a better password-remembering system.
Debatable. I'm more than happy with the way Firefox handles passwords.
# Firefox's Ctrl-F doesn't seem to search input form fields.
A valid point. But how often is it necessary to search within a textarea?
# IE's "mouse select jumps to word boundaries" is not perfect but better than Firefox's character based model.
Again, debatable and depends on user preference.
# Ctrl-N in IE brings up a clone of the current window, complete with history. Firefox opens up my startpage...redundant, because I can easily launch it from the start menu.
This is something that I really despise about IE. Why would I want a duplicate of the page I already have open?! Anyway, I always start with a blank document, so no time is wasted waiting to load a page which will just be changed regardless.
# Ctrl-T in Firefox opens up a new and utterly blank tab...even more useless than the Ctrl-N behavior!
Again, depends on user preference. I see no point in loading a page by default.
# IE shows undisplayable characters with box placeholders, Firefox uses question marks.
Boxes better than question marks? Debatable.
# Tabbing in Firefox doesn't doesn't reset the cursor blink cycle, or something, so you don't get instant confirmation that you're typing in the correct box.
It seems to me that it resets the cursor blink cycle, at least in 1.0.3 which I'm currently using.
# IE has better drag and drop editing of the toolbars, including the "File Edit View" bar. (I like compressing that bar, 5 small buttons, and the address bar all on one line.)
Firefox also has pretty powerful GUI configuration. It's not very obvious, but you can right-click in a blank area of the menu and select "customize"..
# Ctrl-O in firefox is the normal file open dialog...not as useful as IE's URL-or-file-browse feature.
IE drives me crazy by not selecting the address bar on CTRL-L, but instead popping up a dialog. Sometimes I just want to edit the current URL from the keyboard, damnitt!
# I wish Firefox had an option to let each tab have its own close button...often I want to quickly close a bunch of tabs based on their title, but instead I have to switch to each one and close it seperately.
Right click on the tab and select "close". Or just middle-click it.
Gates and his MS has already fulfilled their purpose, to put a computer "in all mans office".
Their time has passed. Now begins a new era.
Yes I've heard of it. I donate money to it. What's your argument? OpenOffice demonstrates that there is more to the world then just the web & email.
In addition, OpenOffice doesn't have a replacement for Outlook, which is the only MS application mentioned in my post.
94% of Repubs and 21% of Dems voted to renew the Patriot Act
When I worked at Microsoft, there was a large push to look at trying to develop a services model out of their support section. They brought in some guy from IBM to push this (after they merged their Product Support Services division with Microsoft Consulting Services and called it Microsoft Services).
;-)
They had two large problems that lead them to either slow these plans down or abandon them altogether (not sure since I no longer work there). The first is that people expect MS to lose money on support. Note that they only lose money because they are darned inefficient at providing support, however, so it is not the great value that it appears.
Secondly, they don't want to gut their partner program by directly competing with their partners.
There is a third problem that I don't think they have thought about, however. This is that the services industry is pretty close to what economists call "perfect competition." There are very few barriers to entry. Customers can switch service providers at any time at very little cost. So services will *never* be the cash cow that Windows and Office are. Yet Windows and Office are under what I call terminal attack. The attacks from the open source community are simply not ever going to go away, and Microsoft can never really win this war-- the best they can hope for is a containment strategy which quite frankly isn't working at the moment.
What about emerging product markets (home of the future sort of things)? Great, and there is growth potential there. However, there is no potential for Microsoft to grow there because these markets are small. And they are competitive. So they could grow rapidly and Microsoft would simply be unable to have this growth translate into similar levels of revenue growth. This means that these markets *will not* satisfy shareholders.
Microsoft, as a software company, is dying. But it is a death of a thousand cuts and is unlikely to be a dramatic implosion in the immediate future. However, give it five or ten years and we will see a very different picture. I predict that in 10 years, that Microsoft will largely be a media and entertainment business. However, I make the following predictions:
1) Longhorn will be praised as a great marketing success by Microsoft. It will sell more retail copies than XP.
2) We are already in the opening period of a war for the desktop. A few battles have gone either direction. Each battle that Microsoft loses will force more interoperability from them and will cause more to fall. It will also bring more expertise to open source software. Battles that FOSS loses will have no long-term implications. The Desktop War is already heating up, with Microsoft launching a counterattack via television advertising
3) The consumer market will follow the corporate market.
4) Microsoft will lose this war within 10 years.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Well, I for one use neather. Without going into details, I could not get PS to do what I needed no matter how hard I tired (a co-worker who uses PS had no problems). I was able to easly do it in GIMP. So I for one feel that GIMP is mor intuitive...
Previously I was a pro-linux; now; i'm just a happy microsoft user.
OK, I'll feed the troll, just for gits and shiggles
Previously I was pro-microsoft; now I'm a very satisfied Linux user. I use Linux for gaming, multimedia, all kinds of programming.
I'm tired of microsoft cheerleading.
Nah, I don't use IE/Outlook/Office, even though I could run them via wine if I really cared. Linux just works for me, and I don't want to spend time futzing around with an expee install for no reason. wine does the trick for windows compatibility, although I much prefer native linux apps.
Sure, Linux can still be improved in some areas (what operating system couldn't?) but to paraphrase the anonymous coward, "heh.. it works; and microsoft has lots of flaws too; ohhh man lots."
Microsoft only seems to show signs of 'real' progress when it has competition, or if it feels current projects no longer generate a sustainable cash flow.
If we all stuck with Microsoft products and the competition moped off with its tail between its legs, I highly doubt that Microsoft would continue to update its software so feverishly - being aware of Microsoft's past activity (or inactivity).
Linux/Open Source/Anti Microsoft News
[I'm answering this on the assumption that you have legitimate gripes and are not just a MS shill. If this is not the case, please disregard.]
I'm absolutely arguing on "good faith"--I've actually switched to Firefox and have for about a month. Once I grokked tabs (at first I thought "well, the taskbar is my tab row, basically) as a way of semantically grouping certain webtasks I was hooked. Also I appreciate being less of MS's "bitch" and it might ease the way to changing OSes in the future.
I understand that Firefox "errs" on the side of future upgradeability, but I do appreciate that when I sit down at an average, vanilla PC, I have a graphical FTP browser via IE. I dislike having seperate downloads for options, because it raises the cost of sitting down at someone elses PC.
I LOVE "clone this window" and I also really miss how child windows (from shift- or ctrl-click) don't capture the history. In navigating certain webforums, it's a handicap sometimes when I want to go back to the main discussion window from a thread I'm following in a new window but I prematurely closed that main discussion window. I really think it should be a configurable option, and every time I find a window with no "history" I think I'm back in Netscape 4.7 crapland. (And to answer your question, I think ctrl-t should have an option to do what ctrl-n does, i.e. go to my homepage...but this bothers me less than it used to)
I do use the keyboard a lot (which is why I'm probably missing the speciffic alt-d mapping to jump the cursor to the URL bar) but I gotta say...I think the mouse is used for local firebrowsing a LOT more than the keyboard.
Anyway, I have used Firefox, and most of these complaints still stand. I don't think it's just newbyism, and the "open link in new window loses the history" is starting to get on my nerves.
SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
It all goes back to my Marketing 101 courses in my (first) BusMgmt degree - until the price drops to $500 for a system, why bother buying it.
Same goes for HDTV from my viewpoint - I've been a tech leader way too often, burned $8000 on a PC or Mac at times, but the risk/reward ratio is not there any more.
The diff between a 3.6G Intel PC with broadband and a 2.4G AMD PC with broadband is way less than 50 percent - more like 20 percent if you have sufficient RAM - so why should I pay $2000 for a Wintel box when I can get one that only costs less than $500 for everything all combined?
That's the prob for MSFT. As price drops for consumer purchase - and people aim for $500 - the OS fraction of $200 plus for MSFT becomes more and more a burden and not worth the cash.
Markets don't care about ideology. They care about choices - and MSFT is not adding enough value to make it worth it's while.
[caveat - I own MSFT shares]
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Picassa needs to get its own camera download interface and replace Microsoft POS. Let's see, I've just downloaded images from a camera, what do you want to do? Thanks to Microsoft, you get two options:
1) Upload to web (Microsoft approved, of course)
2) Print online (Microsoft approved, of course)
What crap.
You could, of course, just edit the damn things on your PC.
Coming soon - pyrogyra
And no, I won't be buying their stock. I don't buy their products either. See, I hate Microsoft and wish they would go away. I'm just not a moron who's going to claim their business is failing based on no facts whatsoever.
Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
I'm sure on some unemployed basement dweller's /home/basementDweller/cvsCode/gimp folder someone is toying with all the features photoshop lacks.
"Long this line is, but use gimp soon you will".
People pay me to do these sort of things. And sometimes I have them running Linux at the end of the day. This is especially true if they have misplaced their XP CD and COA. And yes, every customer I have moved to Linux has loved it.
:-)
They have to pay me to work on their systems whether it is Windows or Linux, but at the end of the day, I make less money on those I convert to Linux because they call me for tech support less.
If you have a mechanic check your car every year, why not make a qaulified computer person check out your computer every year?
If you are a Linux admin, why not have them pay say $10 for analysis of a set of diagnostic tools which can be run once a year (via Cron) and send you the diagnostic reports? Linux automation can make this really easy
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
Re: IE FTP...I use it for binary files all the time, never had a corrupted file. Don't know if it does ASCII mode. I don't think it does sftp, which is a drawback.
Debatable. I'm more than happy with the way Firefox handles passwords.
I'm not, but I have trouble understanding how it works so that I can complain about it properly...which is itself a complaint. For instance, it seems like once upon a time I told not to remember this one http auth, and now it NEVER offers to remember it. Also, sometimes it gets filling out usernames and passwords exactly backwards, on CGI forms...I'd like it to prefill my username and let me type in my password. Instead, it wants to fill in the password after I type my username...given that my username is a lot more public than my password, some hypothetical badguy who got hold of my computer might know or guess my username, and would be good to go.
A valid point. But how often is it necessary to search within a textarea?
You might as well argue "why have taxtareas, don't one line text fields work fine?" So to answer your question, ALL THE DAMN TIME...I edit my website through online forms with textareas, and going back to correct a mistake is a lot harder when I can't ctrl-F find it! Sometimes I have to cut and paste the whole entry into a text editor.
I've heard this is a known bug in certain versions of Firefox, and I think Firefox's search bar is worlds better than IE's dialog (which has absolutely retarded prefilling behaviors), so I'm not too upset, but still.
This is something that I really despise about IE. Why would I want a duplicate of the page I already have open?! Anyway, I always start with a blank document, so no time is wasted waiting to load a page which will just be changed regardless.
I often want a duplicate page to launch child browsing, for instance...I might want to keep a "pristine" copy of the main forum page open, and then have a new one to play with.
Given that my startpage is ALWAYS one click away, and making a new window on the current window might be arbitrarily difficult (sometimes there's state not captured in the URL) I'd say cloning the window is a good canidate for a config option. And not having shift- or ctrl-clicked windows having a history has no user advantages I can see, and many drawbacks I've run into.
Boxes better than question marks? Debatable.
No way...with question marks, I don't know if they were question marks originally, or if Firefox changed 'em. With boxes, I have a pretty good idea that it's a character set I can't view properly. Question Marks as a placeholder for unprintable characters is a bug. (So dabate me. Why are question marks better?)
It seems to me that it resets the cursor blink cycle, at least in 1.0.3 which I'm currently using.
Not in the 1.0.3. *I'm* using. Especially with http auth dialog. It sounds like a small thing but it's really grating.
Firefox also has pretty powerful GUI configuration. It's not very obvious, but you can right-click in a blank area of the menu and select "customize"..
It's pretty good for customizing what buttons appear, but has no facility for arranging the positions of the bars. (This might be a too tough to do in a sane, multi-platform way)
IE drives me crazy by not selecting the address bar on CTRL-L, but instead popping up a dialog. Sometimes I just want to edit the current URL from the keyboard, damnitt!
Heh, I've heard this before...you might be looking for the key pattern "alt-d"--that's why the d in "Address" is underlined...it even gives you a hint, unlike Firefox Ctrl-L
Though alt-d, URL, return isn't any fewer keystrokes than ctrl-o, URL, return.
Right click on the tab and select "close". Or just middle-click it.
It's a lot more steps to right click a menu, locate the "close tab" (in a relatively difficult to hit, last on list position) then to click on a nice red X. And I can't readily middle click on my laptop. I think there is a plugin that fixes this though, and it is a subjective complaint.
SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
Yes, because the general population could even tell you what a 'virtual workspace' or 'taskbar' was....
'Useful' is in the eye of the beholder...
The computer using experience for most is: email, web surfing (this includes shopping on eBay) and gaming.
Where did you pull that statistics out? From your brain? Don't speak for the majority of people just from your own limited experience.
Wow. I don't even know what CMYK is. so support for it doesn't matter to me. I find the GIMP a little more confusing, but i am simply not an expert in photoshop or GIMP. What i do know is that the GIMP does have an unbelievable amount of power. My friends, who are programmers/web designers love the GIMP, but hey maby that's just cuz it's free. But i don't think so since they could steal photoshop, even write their own cracks for it...
"Why use Microsoft if you have a broadband connection and combine Firefox with powerful web services like Google's Gmail?."
The answer is simply Clippy the office assistant.
I'm not suggesting that MSFT is necessarily a good stock to invest in. Their P/E is probably a bit high, and you can point to all the stats you want to show why their stock price might go down in the near to mid term.
But you're a freakin' idiot if you think this means they're going to go out of business.
Don't blame me; I'm never given mod points.
I can't say I've ever entirely understood this attitude. I have used both GIMP and Photoshop a fair amount, and they both have their ups and downs. Certainly if you're doing any print work Photoshop is a given - ther's no comparison. Fromm there it really depends on what you're doing. In general I would say that Photoshop is probably ahead on most fronts, but the difference is far from night and day.
If I was back doing graphics professionally I'd definitely shell out for Photoshop - it has a number of small advantages and a little bit more polish, and who knows I may want to do some print work sometime to. As it stands I am doing other things for a living, but still have a need to do occasional image manipulation. If you think I'm paying for Photoshop in that situation you're dead wrong. There are really 2 markets here and each is big enough to support its own product. If you're a serious proffesional then Photoshop makes sense. If you're anything less than that the difference between GIMP and Photoshop is small enough that GIMP really is a good choice. Certainly I'd take GIMP over Photoshop Elements any day.
Jedidiah.
Craft Beer Programming T-shirts
As a professional pixel-pusher, I can (with as much authority as you'd care to give me) say that the GIMP ought to be compared more to PaintShop Pro or similar. You can make stuff with it, but.... colorspace is complete balls, the FOSS attitude of "YOU DON'T LIKE IT? YOU FIX IT!!!!" doesn't fly, and dear gods the interface is horrible.
I mean, horrible.
Adobe's main advantage is that they do all the work. The fact that Photoshop is becoming progressively more and mote fuctard friendly is proof that they're listening to user feedback - the fact that performance has gotten steadily and measureably worse since 5.5 is proof they're ignoring the power users, who are the people who have the most to gain from The GIMP being brought up to Industry Standard levels of useability.
Here's the thing.
Most artists can't punctuate their way out of a paper bag. You're lucky if you can find one who scored anything above a C in the more "nerd-friendly" math classes in public school and college. You're DAMNED lucky to find one that can actualyl write html without using an IDE like Dreamweaver or GoLive. Good luck finding one that knows WHAT Perl or C++ or Ruby even IS, let alone how to actually get anything done with them.
Artists are as likely to be coders (or to even understand coding concepts) as Linus is to shit a Picasso while he's sitting on the porcelain throne.
The sooner GIMP contributors realize this, the better.
FOSS seems to have a hardon for "Good Enough" - well, for graphics professionals, Photoshops is "Good Enough". GIMP isn't. We need something as good as or better than Photoshop.
I'll start actually using the gimp on a day-to-day basis when it can open complex (not in terms of colorspace, I'm all RGB, as I work For The Screen) Photoshop 5.5 documents and preserve the text as editable. If it can't use all the fonts on my system (several Classic Font Suitcases as well as modern fonts) or open said documents without a hassle, I Can Not Use It.
Why do you think we keep shelling out more and more money over shorter and shorter periods of time for the thing?
at least, cyan, magenta, yellow and black, otherwise known as CMYK. If you want your output off that press to match what the customer wants (ie. their corporate logo is exactly right, and people look like people), it helps immensely to be working in terms of CMYK.
That is true for some things, but not for some little things that I have experienced, such as printer installation (drivers are "in there"), monitors (same story), motherboards (ditto). This is especially seen when moving a HDD into another machine, or adding new hardware. If a component fails, modern distributions are pretty smart about adjusting... and not naggin you to verify, or whatever it is you have to do in XP.
I am taking this from the stance of someone who is an average user, who (normally) doesn't install his version of Windows him/her self, etc (just buys the box pre-configured), and has to call on the knowledgeable friend to troubleshoot/rebuild. Those of us who had been around since the late '80's remember just how rough upgrading could be. To a new user, the modern Linux distribution makes life a whole lot simpler, like the modern Windows OS (which si preety close to a distribution, but i'm not going there!), but has a little leg up in said aspects.
As many posters have said, familiarity is the key, but when the user is just starting out, it is really great to be able to simply setup things without going to driver disks.
Oh... and anybody else catch themselves right clicking a page in IE and looking for "Save page" as an option...? Easier indeed!
For every present, there is a past
Upgradability? Good, I say. What PC can go from a Pentium 1 to a Pentium 3?
Friend, just in case you missed an earlier comment of mine, I will give you one reason why Mozilla,(and by extension Firefox, since that is what I use on my SO's machine) is just that much better: right click on a page in IE and select "Save Page" or "Send Page"... oops... sorry... you can't, and that is a pity. BTW, I don't know if " Close other Tabs" will help you with your last point... and some of us actually just want a plain old new window, maybe to type in an url or something....
For every present, there is a past
Couldn't have said it better.
The same goes for music. There's a reason none of the FOSS apps have made any major dent in the pro audio world, and that is that workflow and polish are actually really important there.
Go look at Cakewalk Sonar. They did a major upgrade last year from 3.x to 4.x. What were the major selling points?
* Better integration with video
* Surround sound mixing support
* Workflow improvements like track folders, "birds eye" views of projects and so on.
Nothing from the FOSS side of the fence can touch the first two features, and as for workflow... don't even think about it. What they're improving, FOSS hasn't even got near to thinking about yet.
Which is why, as a music professional, I still buy proprietary software.
Maybe I'm confused, but aren't all those options available under the "File" menu in IE? So you're kvetching that it's under the file menu and not a right click option? Or what?
Close other tabs doesn't help with my point, since I want to see what each tab is before I close it...without an extension I click somewhere on the left, on the tab, to bring it to the front, then I mouse all the way over to the right to hit X, and I have to keep going back and forth.
Re: plain old new window...I still say, it's much easier to type in a URL to a window that has junk on it then it is to get back to where you were in a blank or homepage'd window...therefore, it would make sense to have a configurable "new window clones current window" option.
SO YOU'RE GOING TO DIE: The Comic for Dealing with Death
Actually really not so much of Linux: First you can get the same search as in Spotlight with Beagle Desktop search. The Infrastructure für OpenGL accelerated Desktops already is in place, thanks the x.org and last but not least, desktop widgets have been existing for quite a while now thanks to Superkaramba and other desktop widget technologies. You cannot really see most of this stuff, because the x.org stuff is disabled in most cases (otherwise the UI would have been dragged down as badly as in OSX) beagle is rather new and is moving slowly into the distros, with SuSE being first, and Superkaramba and the gnome desktop widgets have been popular for more than 2 years now.
You don't need Microsoft to do word processing.
Yes, I do. All my clients send me documents in either Excel or Word format. If I can't read them properly, or mess them up making edits and sending them back, it's at least embarassing.
Sure, mis-matched versions of Office can cause problems - but then I can say "well, sorry about that, but I used the right software - could you send it again please? Maybe try saving it as an older version, say Word 97?". If I use OO.o and it messes it up, it's my fault.
Not fair, perhaps, but that's the way it works in business a lot of the time. Thankfully, I don't have to deal with that sort of crap very often.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
Not until it runs well on our existing Windows boxes, and can access a central server for Calendaring, etc.
Hopefully it's not too far off. I am eagerly anticipating the stable releases of Novell's port of Evolution to Windows.
94% of Repubs and 21% of Dems voted to renew the Patriot Act
It can access a central server for Calendaring, etc. Since version 2, it is capable of accessing at least Microsoft Exchange and Novell Groupware servers.
That's the wedge - Once you are running Firefox, GAIM, OpenOffice.org, The GIMP, etc. etc. - What do you really NEED Windows for, besides Solitare?
Changing Photoshop for Windows and GIMP for Linux and you just realize all arguments regarding professional-proprietary-product-with-years-of-R&D vs hobbyist-free-effort-with-years-of-debugging look the same.
This argument is moot.
I don't feel like it...
Taskbar is the dock on OS X. I feel sorry having to remind it. If the parent used windowmaker or afterstep, he would understand taskbar is a old approach. With a huge object oriented (hello! I can drag a mail here, to this window and its pasted) OS, taskbar is.. Well, funny :) Got sort of it in Path Finder, cool for app quitting party before I launch some huge game etc.
;)
Virtual workspace is enabled by many freeware apps, with a huge invention like Expose, need for them is less. Telling as a guy who loves virtual desks since first times I used windowmaker. (openstep)
One must not forget the amazing support of dual monitors (or add more in some configs) of Mac OS tradition.
You try to educate the parent but he clearly didn't see the desktops of 8gig Mac using pros.
That's great. I've been loosely following Evolution for Windows since Linuxworld last year.
I'm really curious how Evolution + Novell Groupware it will work: How will Evolution & iCalendar handle meeting invitations, shared schedules, shared addressbooks, shared discussion groups, etc.
Because in all honesty, Outlook really sucks at most of this stuff-- most places I know don't use shared addressbooks correctly. It's really disgustingly buggy and poorly designed.
94% of Repubs and 21% of Dems voted to renew the Patriot Act
Ignoring your hostility, I'll take this post to clarify that I wasn't being snarky about perl at all. If I was frequently in situations like what the authour described, I would indeed be interested in perl. But I'm not, so learning perl for such a minor thing would be wasteful for me.
you go on about CMYK when bugger all people *care* about that sort of thing
That kind of attitude certainly won't help the GIMP. Either you're being willfully ignorant or you honestly don't realize that the lack of CMYK support is usually the #1 or #2 reason (behind the interface) graphic designers decide not to use the GIMP. I mean, the inability to work in the colour space of your target medium is something of a majour hurdle for graphic designers who want to adopt the GIMP.
But you can insist that no one cares about CMYK if you like.
student of animation and the fine arts
Microsoft will never die, its far too rich now to disappear completely, it may have diversify like IBM.
...that the bigger you are, the harder you fall. IBM was suffering bigtime, lost tons of money because their business model was failing. If, and I do say if because this has been said for many years now, there is a sudden snowball effect with OpenOffice, shortly followed by real headway for mixed networks (Win/OO for "special" users, Linux/OO for simple jobs) Microsoft will shake at its very foundations.
Desperation is so expensive you can hardly imagine. My dad worked with IBM at the time, they were really out on a limb. Have you ever tried to create a new cash cow fast because your old one died too quickly? They don't grow fast, you couldn't really push them except by killing the margins you desperately need, and so the company is lost in limbo. It is not a pretty sight. Not to say that Microsoft is there yet.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
The long service life of Macs adds significantly to the installed user base
Actually the installed user base decreases significally the percent Macs are sold: proof: because of the long service life.
gtkaml.org
"The GIMP is unfortunately one of the better reasons NOT to use Linux."
In what way exactly is a user-land graphical editor free-software program ( with a Window port btw ) related to an operating system kernel?
I don't feel like it...
Take a look at the software sales chart on Amazon.com, at any given moment, about ten of the top fifty sellers will be Microsoft titles.
(You probably know this, but) The platform SDK is available for download at http://www.microsoft.com/msdownload/platformsdk/s
Hey - don't you dare accuse any of us Linux users of spending our time gaming!
Professor Karmadillo Songs of Science
"I played around with it a bit, but it's just another browser, and IE [Microsoft's Internet Explorer] is better."
This, my friends, is only the latest reinforcement of the axiom "Bill Gates, a purported uber-nerd, continues to be out of touch with respect to the future of technology."
Steve Magruder, Metro Foodist
Let me tell you a story about windows 2000 server and a BIOS raid (highpoint, cheap but usable)we were using to store our exchange information store.
One day, said information store started showing parity errors that appeared out of thin air. We started searching for possible causes and reading about the error codes that appeared in the event viewer. After reading lots of nonsense on the help files we sent the error codes to MS support.
In case you're doubting you analysis of the help files, I'm have 5 years experience as a network administrator, as does my co-admin. The third member of our group has a couple of years experience too, trained by us two. We're mostly unix admins, but one of us (not me) is also a veteran windows admin too. We also had our fair share of experience with out exchange 2000 (including cutting it in three, and making a reverse proxy for it with apache). The help files were lots of things to do as workarounds for known problems, with no explanation of the problems themselves or their causes.
Eventually we concluded that there was some kind of conflict between some unknown windows subsystem and the raid device. It would cause the store to corrupt itself (slightly but enough for it to cease operating) within a few days while operating on the mirrored disks (don't ask me why, we never found out).
At the same time, the answer from MS support came back, telling us exactly the same shit that was written on the help files cut and pasted into the mail.
After finding a hardware compatibility list, and not finding the highpoint raid listed (mind you, it's the BIOS raid found on most consumer motherboards) we wrote back asking if there was a patch or update available. The answer was "that piece of hardware is not supported".
The final result is that we had to get rid of the mirroring disk.
Now, you were saying talking about REAL PEOPLE instead of mailing lists and newsgroups, but let me tell you that having THAT kind of support is far from having real support staff (it's like having, as I call it, a "meat robot", a person that just follows a script). I've had better experience asking in mailing lists, at least the people hanging down there act like intelligent humans, instead of meat robots.
GPG 0x1B479C78
His point was that any commonly-used thing Microsoft provides is also available elsewhere. The prevalence of gaming doesn't hurt his case a whole lot.
"The use-mention distinction" is not "enforced here."
Well, there's always emacs... :-P
"The use-mention distinction" is not "enforced here."
Apparently he has been doing this for a long time, not just the last few years. He pumps large amounts of it into his charitable foundation and also has other investments/companies than MS that presumably eat up a lot of that.
I'm a software visionary. I don't code.
I agree with you but there are a couple of points to keep in mind: The stock price and revenue is not a necessarily good indication of market share when the competition has no stock price and there is also good evidence of increasing linux/OSS use.
With 6 billion plus people in the world the M$ stock price could just mean they've managed to mantain their existing user base with the other 5 billion odd people in the world taking up alternatives.
Also, see my sig. Just in the last few months, the number of google hits for linux exceeded that of windows. Not scientific of course but interesting nonetheless.
---
GNU/Linux, the world's #1 OS by hits. M$ windows #2.
Open Office the world's #1 office suite. M$ office #2.
Apache, the world's #1 web server. M$ IIS #2.
Evolution, the world's #1 email client, M$ outlook #2.
Unfortunately mozilla family browsers are still #2, M$ internet explorer is #1, but watch firefox (#3) grow.
Congratulations everybody, world domination is at hand. ;-)
It isn't technology, it's price. Lets look at recent developments:
Solaris: $0
Linux: $0
OpenOffice.org: $0
Windows: hundred $ at least
Office: hundreds of $
Just like in the 1990s when Windows NT came out of nowhere to dominate UNIX, UNIX/Linux will come full circle and do the same to Windows.
-- Microsoft is the most expensive commodity operating system and office suite vendor in the marketplace.
M$ didn't get to have 90% of the desktop market, and 60% of the server market, through any technical merit, they got it because they are arrogant bullies, and people are too stupid to buy anything else. Pretty soon those stupid people are going to wise up, and dump M$ in droves. Forget about your career with .Net, that's just another rubbish M$ marketing tool, and it's going down soon. Install Linux at home, and start learning system configuration with /etc, programming with makefiles, and how to browse the help system (all 17 varieties of it). That's the future!
I'm a software visionary. I don't code.
Your siting 3.7% market share as something to be considered a threat.
Not to mention that Macs tend to be used longer
how did you stat this little fact of your, check out the other three nerds in your dorm. I know a person still running windows 95 on p90, that doesn't mean I can just make a statement saying "people tend to use windows 95 still".
Unlike many other slashdot users, you seem to have forgotten that the OP was in past tense, and therefore the reply was also. Grammar Macht Frei, indeed. Idiot.
C|N>K
But here's a follow-up. No tabs open. Just a blank window. Mem usage is 50MB, VM usage is 40MB. I even cleared everything I could, in an effort to put a dent in it, but it had no effect.
Not really, because there were also competing DOS clones! I remember some people I knew ran DR-DOS, for example, and it was not only compatible with DOS but had more features. If MS had had such an exclusivity clause with IBM, the PC market would simply have exploded anyway, but with different companies coming out on top as to today (e.g. Caldera might have gotten a lot bigger). The competing DOS manufacturers were eager to differentiate their products by adding new features and so on. However when MS came out with IIRC Windows 3, they added some code to deliberately make it only run on MS-DOS, thus "tying" the two products i.e. Windows 3 to DOS. This meant if you ran DR-DOS you couldn't run Windows, even though DR-DOS was technically capable of having Windows run on top of it). (The resultant MS-Caldera court case dragged out until long after DR-DOS was no longer relevant in the market, even though MS lost that case. Although they removed the exclusivity code later, the damage had already been done, and the message had been clear to competitors: "don't enter the market, we'll just crush you by locking you out".)
Who said they're going out of business? At best, I would challenge their business model. You see if we make an assumption that earnings from operating systems sales are under threat, be it by migrations or massive discounts due to market pressure, then what will they sell to make up for the historically multi-billion dollar income? Understand that it's relativly easy to come up with a business plan to generate say, 100 million $ a year, a plan for 300-500million would be challenging but I am sure they could come up with it.. but anything above a billion??? I see this as a problem for microsoft, replacing the chicken with the golden egg.
But heck, never mind, anyone who sees this is, in your expert opinion, a moron.
ROFL@geoffspear (692508)
-if at first you don't succeed, stay the heck away from paragliding.
Now going forward the monopoly is being dismantled, profitability is falling and with it share value. So no matter what it does or which direction it chooses it will no longer have a monopoly, so that the compnay that was Microsoft in effect ceases to exist only to inveitably become a significantly less profitable empty shell compared to what is was.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
This week two of the former Detroit 'big four' had their investment ratings downgraded to junk status. They also seemed to have plenty in the war chest. Didn't help them design cars people wanted. What is 0% financing or rebate but paying people to buy your product? Well, Microsoft keeps on building on top of old technology - expensive to patch, and not quite state of the art. Why do people keep using it? Because they know how and they feel in control because it's the first desktop tool they learned. But, that attitude won't last forever.
'The longing to be primitive is a disease of culture' George Santayana
No. That's what I'd say if he had forgotten it that one specific time. I meant he forgets to rtfa, generally. And it was also fitting as closely as possible with the post I was replying to.
I am trolling
Google (Search, Gmail, next GooFirefox) is getting directly the users without going through OS. MS cannot marginalize Google using OS as Netscape. Google won't make an OS.
Ummm, what rock have you been living under? OO.org has better file compatability than any version of M$ Office I have seen.
.doc - but I have never had issues with opening the latest format of office douments except for stuff that uses VBA scripting.
You can use the exact same tactic if you have problems: ask to save to a word97
Yikes... still not getting it.
Cash means... cash in the bank. Like you have X dollars in your account, we shall use $100 in the example.
Now lets say you sold yourself, and issued shares of yourself to others. Lets say you have 10 shares outstanding that the market is willing to pay $1000 each for. Your market capitalization is $10,000. presumably the market has accounted for the fact that you have $100 in assets in your account. So this year, you spent $3 more than you took in. Your account still has $97 in it. The investors in you panic and sell your shares all the way down to $.01. This sucks, but you still have $97 in your account. if someone comes along and buys those 10 shares, he has essentially bought $97 for 10 cents. Theoretically, the share price should not have dropped below $9.70.
This is why many old giant companies that have gone out of business (Grumman comes to mind, Kmart more recently) never had their share price go to 0 or anywhere close. Their assets (real estate, facilities, patents, useful technology and machinery, etc) were in summation worth many billions of dollars and therefore the price of the stock floated at the (Worth of assets)/(#Shares outstanding) mark.
The stock price, which makes Bill and the shareholders happy, has no real effect on the operation of the company. They have so much cash in reserve that it is not necessary for them to sell new shares into the market to stay afloat. If MS stock goes to 0, they still have $56 billion (or whatever the figure is) in the bank to play with.
Right, and what is most important, you get a solution for your probelm. Try doing that with a commercial company. Let's see some real cases from my own experience:
Case 1: call Oracle and tell them you have a problem with Pro*Fortran (Oracle's own implementation of a Fortran interface). I did that and it took six months of discussions until they found out that the product (their *own* product) had been discontinued...
Case 2: I had a problem migrating a program from VAX-C to DEC-C, both products of Digital Equipment Co. I opened a support call in 1993, and now, 12 years later, I'm still waiting for a solution. It took me two months of talks with four different support people for them to understand that a problem existed, despite me sending them a 50 line program that compiled and ran on VAX-C but not on DEC-C. DEC has been acquired by Compaq and Compaq by HP and still no answer from them. Of course, I solved the problem myself (by a rather ugly kludge), but the support call is, AFAIK, still open and pending a solution.
Case 3: I opened a support call to Borland on a bug in their C++ compiler. Their answer: "we know about this bug and it should be fixed in the next version". That's how commercial software works, they expect me to pay for a new version of the software, I expect them to fix the problem in this version, which I already paid for.
Case 4: Another support call on a C++ compiler, this time to Microsoft. Same answer as above.
Case 5: One of our servers (HP-UX) running an Ingres database died, and the mobo had to be replaced. The CPU on the new computer was more powerful than the old, which had been discontinued by HP. Computer Associates sent us a bill for $15000, because they charge by the CPU performance in the machine running their software.
So, pleease, try to get a job where you have to work with commercial software and try opening a few support calls before you talk about "bam get an answer". You get much better answers and more educated ideas from Google in five minutes than you get from any software company I know.