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Gates, Jobs, Torvalds: Who is Most Important?
Ian Wilson writes "silicon.com has launched its latest Agenda Setters poll which puts together a list of the top 50 people influencing tech. I remember Slashdot carried last year's poll - which was won by Steve Jobs. The full top 50 includes many of the usual suspects. Last year's winner Steve Jobs has slipped down to second place, but perhaps most interesting is the fact that the panel of judges couldn't separate Linus Torvalds and Bill Gates - they are tied in seventh place."
... the most interesting thing is that #1 is a guy from the BBC. As they look to digitise their content, the BBC is carving itself a really nice niche on the Web -- a World Service for the 21 century.
Athletic Scholarships to universities make as much sense as academic scholarships to sports teams.
[This is possibly more 'yro' than 'it' but the consequences are truly scary for the UK if this man gets his way]
Look at number 5 - David Blunkett. This man makes all other (previously thought to be totalitarian) Home Secretaries in the UK look positively liberal. To recount:
Sure he's an agenda-setter, but Vlad the impaler had an agenda. It didn't make it a good agenda, unless you happened to be Vlad himself...
Simon.
Physicists get Hadrons!
Cowboy Neal
Free XBox, PS2
I bet the lkids would say Jobs.. as teh iPods are al the rage.... geek would say Linus... general public would say Billy..
"It's not like your minds are as open as the source you love..." - Me to the majority of Slashdot.
Oh wait, IMPORTANT......
And the most depressing thing is that there's only two chicks in the top 50. Tho someone named "Tata" oughta count.
"Wow. Now THAT'S a lot of angry Indians." - Lt. Col. George Armstrong Custer
it makes some sense i think. The big battles right now are in corporate IT, where microsoft and gnu/linux are taking big bites out of commercial unix platforms in terms of installation base and spending. So, the two are one in terms of big things on the horizon.
The real question is, what happens when Microsoft and companies like Suse, redhat, and even IBM start competing head to head -- what's going to happen then?
~dijjnn
To do my bit for pseudo-democracy worldwide, I tried to vote; when I did, though, I was asked to vote again. And again... wonder did my vote count at all. Damn, it's just like living in Florida.
To commit heresy, though: should Linus be that high on the list? Sure, he's influential in linux, and linux should be represented, but in the happy world of IT shouldn't some Red Hat or Suse guy be higher?
In case you care, I voted for Hu Jintao. I don't share the judges' belief that vendors will dominate in China, and I reckon that Hu could well in years to come cause geeks much angst as they support his open source policies while being less fond of his oppression policies.
http://www.siliconagendasetters.com/technologists. htm
Say what is Bill Gates doing in that list? He didn't know DNS was an acronym already in use on the Net, he doesn't know much of the technical aspects of his own product... What gives? How can we trust this list?
Larry Page and Sergey Brin? Granted, they may not be as high as a lot of the other people on the list, but they should be on it. How many other companies are having as big of an impact on the Internet as Google? Not many.
You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life. --Winston Churchill
Since there is no 8th place person, Bill must be 8.
...but perhaps most interesting is the fact that the panel of judges couldn't separate Linus Torvalds and Bill Gates - they are tied in seventh place.
Is there any difference between the two men? Don't they both more or less control an operating system that is freely distributable, freely modifiable, strongly based on standards, with rock solid performance?
Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
me?
...clearly shows that there where 50% Linux-users and 50% Windows-users in the jury.
Oh wiat, this isn't a /. poll.
I am the customer.
I am the most important...
Linus has created a model, from which dozens (hundreds?) of additional creations have been made, ranging in purpose from full-fledged supercomputers to OS-on-a-chip. Bill has created a monopoly, who's empire pulls the rug out from under people left right and center. While I don't think its difficult to determine which has had the BETTER impact on technology (and society), I can understand the difficulty in determining who had MORE of an impact.
CELEBRITY DEATHMATCH!
Karma to anyone who can actually call the match.
Think again
I disagree about Steve just filling a role. When Steve left Apple, Apple started to suffer. It wasn't until Steve returned in '97 that the 'new Apple' really started to kick ass.
I've got more mod points and GMail invi
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"Some things have to be believed to be seen." - Ralph Hodgson
I doubt that, the BSD source code controversy was resolved, and you'd have gotten FreeBSD and of course minix in the OSS "market".
It disgraceful that Britney Spears didn't even make the top 50 this year. Without her, I don't think Google would ever get any searches.
http://ipod.fresh27.net/
Yes, we planned this. We schedule a slashdotting once a year to keep our IT people on their feet.
This is not a political statement. This is not legal advice. It's a frick'n Slasdot post. However: I'm Running For
I didn't realize that you can schedule ./ing now.
"I make people like me... WITH VIOLENCE!" - ATHF
Bill Gates and Linus are not as much involved in everyday development as they used to be, so they are not so influential anymore. Now Steve Jobs, on the other hand, still has his hand in the development of new products (for example, he helped personally simplify the iPod's menu system in terms of usability, IIRC).
Also, Apple seems to lead the innovation in many areas, with Windows and Linux behind (I am mainly talking about things like usability of the operatig system, etc).
I realize the heading of this is "Agenda Setters", but c'mon! The majority of the reasoning behind Gates' placement is based on vaporware:
whether that be seamless computing, the much-awaited Longhorn OS or the promise of 64-bit chips.
Gates continues to make security an agenda
I realize PHBs suck this crap up, but you'd think there would be good _technical_ reasons to give Gates such a high placement. The article read more like it was apologizing for the man.
If thou see a fair woman pay court to her, for thus thou wilt obtain love
Perhaps this list needs some garbage collection. DEK (Donald E. Knuth) is an elder statesman of technology, but he isn't the 30th most influential person in technology. Isn't.
Well, there was GNU before there was Linux. Maybe it wouldn't be as popular, but there would be OSS. Thank Richard Stallman for that.
Please, please, this post isn't meant to start a flamewar of Richard Stallman vs. Linus Torvalds, I'm just saying OSS would probably exist without Linus.
How originial:
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I'd hardly say that Gates is non technical. I doubt he could have acheived to head one of the largest money making coorporations without starting from somewhere, and he dind't have millions of programmers when he started with BASIC back 30 years ago. Not that I'm saying he's any better than Torvalds but Gates does have great technical abilities.
If you're talking about who's been most influential in holding back computing by about 10 years.. I believe Mr Gates wins hands down.
Before I get modded down to oblivion (or up, this is slashdot), look at where the real innovations come from; it isn't Microsoft, unless you count the small companies that it assimilates once they come up with something promising.
An example: with the iPod, Apple is setting a new standard for mp3 players, and there's healthy competition. What is Microsoft setting the standard in? (apart from it's own standards..)
I don't think Mr Gates can be considered influential, next to others who are actually shaping rather than strangling the industry. My opinion, YMMV etc.
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"Linus is much more important than Bill Gates!"
Why?
I'd say Gates is more important. Mostly because if Gates died tomorrow, it would affect the economy a lot more than if Linus died tomorrow. Plus, Gates has given more to charitable organizations than Linus will ever make in his life.
Whom do I prefer? Linus. Whom do I think is a nicer guy, and a better tech? Linus. Who is more important to a larger percent of the population? Gates.
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So they EXPECTED to get slashdotted?
Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
How can Al Gore not be on that list!!?? He invented the Internet, for chrissakes!
Where ever you are, whoever you are, thank you.
I like big butts and I cannot lie.
I agree with you that Gates should be the lowest of the three. He is, after all, only there because he owns a monopoly large enough that it can bastardize standards created by other people.
But I think Jobs and Linus should be tied, and higher on the list. Everything you said about Linus is true - he has helped spearhead the OSS movement. But Jobs has generally set the agenda that others follow. Linux has made great strides in making computers accessible to the extremely computer litterate who know what they want their computers to do. Macs have done an equally good job of making computers accessible to those who don't know so much about computers, but would really like to use them. Both men are equally committed to their respective causes.
I get the sense that Microsoft is not necessarily the reflection Bill Gates or his ideas. I think it does whatever amounts in the most profit. On the other hand, I think Jobs and Torvalds are both driven by idealogies. When asked why they made decisions, they respond with the term "should." As in: computers should do this, or operating systems should not behave like this.
I think that makes both of them better leaders and very high on this list.
Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
From scratch? You wish. Even Linus doesn't claim that.
This would make a good idea for a /. poll. Throw in Theo de Raadt as well, for special effects.
My money is on Billy Gates, as I think he's responsible for much of what the PC software market is like today. For Linus there are the BSD geniuses, and while Jobs has achieved a lot, I don't think it stacks up against the achievement of the others.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
I asked everybody in my house a question
"who is more important, bill gates or linus torvalds"
bill was the winner because none of the people knew "the other guy".
It's more than clear bill has had more influence in our world at this moment than linus has (though linux/oss might influence the world to new business models, but thats tomorrow and maybe)
Artists against online scams http://www.aa419.org/
Pretty much any metric Gates wins: economicy, population of users, etc.
Which is not to say that Linus or Jobs or me or you might one day take the baton...
Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
This is simply not the case, as I think most of us realize. We may all despise Microsoft, and we may all love Linux, but we're simply ignoring the truth if we think Linus Torvalds has been more influential than Bill Gates.
The issue is this: Linus may have ushered in the creation of a better product than Bill Gates. But quality doesn't necessarily correlate to influence. The very fact that the Linux-loving Slashdot crowd grumbles about how everyone uses MS even though Linux is better should be the first indication that Bill Gates is more important. He may be ugly, and he may have created the most evil company with the worst software, but his work has been influential. Without him and DOS/Windows, I'm not sure computers would have become a common household appliance until much later.
I guess I am probably not showing the proper amount of obesiance to those at the top of the hierarchy, but I just have to know why humans spend so much time pondering the minutaie of those at the top of the hierarchy?
eat shiat and bark at the moon
Hey, where's Darl McBride!
If my answers frighten you, stop asking scary questions.
enuff said.
- these are not the droids you are looking for -
Actually, OSS software existed before stallman started the GNU Project. A lot of software was open source, distributed through local computer users groups. Programs were shared amongst people in the group. So even without Stallman's pushing, there would have been OSS.
Slashdot...it's like Fox news, but without the biased sl...or maybe not.
1) Steve Jobs runs a big successful computer company, envied by many for its impeccable style and cutting edge innovation and product design.
2) Bill Gates is an effective caretaker for the largest money-printing machine in the world. His products are not innovative and are far from perfect. He has no style and this is reflected in his products, but they are extremely popular. He's a good manager and an excellent card player.
3) Linus wrote a UNIX kernel and released it freely to the world. An innovative even important move, but other than that what does he do to garner such awe?
Sam
I thought number 1 would be Darl McBride.
So all this is about top 50 people influencing tech.
Then this all should go to Bill Gates. Why ? Because usually (and sadly) it's mostly not the guy who has the largest influence, but the money. This meaning if you can't persuade them, buy them or pay them.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
OSS *DID* exist before Linus, he is just a great posterboy. To be honest, if Linux had not come around, the Hurd would probably be much farther along. I don't think the Hurd would be as developed as Linux is now, but many of the same people that are spending time on Linux would have spent time on it instead. The Hurd does predate the Linux kernel (can't remember how long).
The biggest advantage Linus had at the beginning was the ability to get others to pitch in and help, building a very large network of contributors. It appears he was better organized back when Linux was less developed than the Hurd, and organization matters.
Part of this may be because (right or wrong) people see Linus as non-political, whereas RMS's views seem to be more political. My bet is this attracted people who were neutral about the GPL and Free software, as well as the zealots. A bigger tent attracts more contributors.
Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
It's obvious they planned for their inevitable slashdotting and put up a guise to decieve the rest of the world!!
Otherwise, it would be prety easy to aruge that Tim Berners-Lee is more important than Linus.
Here's what I do: Bitty Browser & Andromeda
Without the general community, the infinite monkeys writing and using the technology, where would any of us be? Thousands of people, maybe tens-of-thousands sit down at their computer and support the open source community every day, where are they on the list? Milions of people every single day take advantage of windows and apple technology. Where are they on the list? I think "The geeks of the wrold" should be part of the list, if not "computer users of the world". Without us, Bill Gates would just be a nobody.
Pretty Pictures!
Jobs - Still visionary, still a good business man, still leading his company. Apple definitely won't be the same without him. Apple is what it is today because of him. Most importantly, he's Steve Jobs - of Apple. People listen to him.
Torvalds - Still visionary, still a good coder. Still has influence over Linux kernel, but not so much as he used to. Linux will continue without Linus. Linux is what it is because he started it and gave it to the community.
Gates - Bill Gates and Microsoft are no longer synonymous. The culture at Microsoft won't notice when Bill is gone. The only thing significant about Bill now is his bank account. Microsoft is what it is today because of lawyers, marketing, more lawyers, other people in MS, and even more lawyers. Bill Gates hasn't been relevant to Microsoft for some time.
I'm going to go back in my box and will think within the limits of my box: MS Sucks Linux Good I read too much Slashdot.
I can get by without a gate, but I can't get by without a job.
Linus Torvalds makes a convenient representational symbol for the Linux community (it's named after him, after all), but is he really an Agenda Setter?
Every interview I've read with him gives the impression that Linus has no plan to achieve world domination, or even knock Microsoft down in the marketplace. He's just an engineer who's trying to make the best operating system he can.
Credit for "the Linux agenda" (if any) more rightly belongs to the RMS'es and ESR's of the world, the business brains at IBM and RedHat and Fedora and the other companies that have taken Linus's work and packaged it as something that's enterprise-ready.
The BBC's director of New Media? The guy who tried to make the BBC a "portal"? The guy who introduced Fantasy Football and Pure Soap (both cancelled) to the BBC web site?
Why is parent at Flamebait(0)? It is funny! Laugh!
Roses are #FF0000, violets are #0000FF, all my base are belong to you
You simply could not be more wrong in your statement. If it weren't for Linus, the OSS movement would now stick to a free OS based either on 386BSD or GNU/Hurd - or some combination of these. Everything would look pretty similar to the real world as we know it.
Bill's case is far from obvious - if it wasn't him in particular, his place would be most likely taken by Gary Kildall. The history of personal computing would look entirely different, as Kildall was far from being a monopolist egomaniac like Gates and Ballmer. Kildall's company, Digital Research, could easily be the Microsoft of the 8-bit computers. Their system was just _the_ system for 8-bit machines, but Kildall did not try to use his advantage as a vehicle for building monopolist empire. Quite contrary, he was sticking to the principle that the company that makes OS should not take part in the application market. That's actually how Microsoft has found its niche - as a key vendor of the CP/M applications. So if it wasn't Bill, CP/M-86 would be the MS-DOS, and GEM Desktop would be Microsoft Windows - but there would be NO equivalent of Internet Explorer, Microsoft Outlook or Microsoft Office, and that would be probably good news (we would have various competing office suites instead).
The case of Steve Jobs is even more obvious - Apple with Steve and Apple without Steve (1985-1997) are just different companies. No Steve - no iPod. Period.
Erich Gamma, Richard Helm, Ralph Johnson, John Vlissides, Graddy Booch, James Rumbaugh, and Ivar Jacobson to name a few.
Gates was influenced by technology more then he influenced it. He'll be remembered as the guy who made a lot of money from technology not as someone who created anything.
Torvalds = Wrote a world class operating system from scratch ..meh..
He didn't write the whole operating system, he just wrote some of the kernel; to say he wrote the whole thing is disrespectful to the thousands of other people who have contributed.
Except that we yanks have lent more DNA to Europeans than I think we have any interest in collecting, all of the Big Brother technologies you list are in place or on the drawing boards in the US thanks to our current national administration's accidental discovery that fear is a much easier way to consolidate power than reason ever was. And I shouldn't forget, as mentioned in /., we don't just oggle crooks with our satellites.
SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
We all know the outcome of a celebrity deathmatch between Bill and Linus:
From pictures, I'd say that Linus has a physical advantage over Gates; but Bill would probably play dirty and get someone else (Balmer, perhaps) to fight for him (he never doesn anything for himself.) That would give Linus the excuse to play tag-team with Tove, and she'd kick the ass of Bill, Melinda, *and* Balmer (remember Tove is a six-time Finnish National karate champ!)
Linus popularized the idea that you should be able to take the source and build it yourself.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
I'll grant you that Gates has *had* more of an effect on the impact of the computer industry than Linus has in the past. But, Gates is a dinosaur. I'll grant you that he is a really cool dinosaur. He is a great big Tyranasauros Rex. But he is still a dynasaur.
If Gates died tomorrow, more people would sell shares of Micorosft stock, out of Fear that the company could not perform without their glorious leader. And that would impact them. But, in reality, Gates has stepped aside, a long time ago.
Linus is a like a great big meteorite that came from outer space. And right now, we are just beginning to see this dust cloud forming... So, when you ask, which is more important, the T-Rex, or the meteorite, I would got with the meteorite.
But that's just me.
The fact that all the other dinosaurs are still looking around saying,"We all live in awe and fear of the T-Rex and we have never even heard of the meteorite," is hardly a convincing argument to the contrary...
Randy.Flood@RHCE2B.COM
I didn't see my name on the list.
I'm sure it is just an oversight.
"Rocky Rococo, at your cervix!"
I think that when Linus said that SCO was on crack, my respect for the man went up about 1000%.
As in Bill Joy.
Where is Bruce Schneier on this list? While I am admittedly pretty ignorant on who most of these figures are on this list, I don't understand the ommission of Bruce here. He is, at least in my estimation, the single most influential figure in the area of computer security and cryptography and had a hand in developing a few commonly used cryptographic algorithms in use today (blowfish for example). With the world moving more and more online and ecommerce taking center stage how is the figurehead and most quoted individual of the information security field not listed?
The most important person in tech over the next decade or two is someone few of us have ever met. He or she will start (or has started) the company that will lead the next revolution in computing. Perhaps it will focus on atomic computing, perhaps it will be optical. Few of us realize its significance, and fewer still could guess how it will change the face of technology. Bill Gates, Linus, and Mr. Jobs are interesting, but they are the hallmark of *today's* state of the art. :)
"Gates, Jobs, Torvalds: Who is Most Important?"
... ...
Gates is wealthy
Jobs is wealthy
Torvalds?
This isn't a popularity contest. It doesn't matter who is more famous. The people on this list are the ones that have changed the way we do things with computers. In this respect, I think Steve Jobs should be number one. His decisions at Apple spread throughout the entire computer industry. Apple decides to use USB and Firewire... now they are "standard equipment". Apple ditches the floppy drive... now you have to ask for one if you order dell, ibm or gateway. And all those PC modders are just jealous of the pretty mac cases ;-).
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who plans downtime directly after they release a story.. sounds like they didn't plan for
anyone have a mirror?
Where's Darl McBride? He's paving the way for a brighter tomorrow!
These lists are worthless, I don't know what draws me to them. I see it and I just have to see who is on it.
Technology isn't a one-person effort. It is the total combined efforts of a wide variety of companies, engineers, technicians, and other people doing what they do best. It is a symbiotic relationship that crosses almost any boundary put in front of it. If the plastic's people can't find an answer to a problem, maybe the ceramic's people can.
Think of the progression of the Intel processor and the hundreds or thousands of people who have had a hand in it's development along the way. Sure there are names that rise to the top, but litterally hundreds of engineers, technicians, and probably even janitors have contributed different ideas and insights into how to grow that little calculator chip into the massive CPU that we have today.
It doesn't stop there though. Someone had to take that computer chip and make it do something. Along came the hundreds of engineers from IBM and many, many other companies. They built the box that housed the chip and then found that they had something.
But what they had wasn't complete. Along came the boys from Microsoft, Digital Research and other companies. They cobbled together something that made the box do something.
What they had was a genuine invention. But someone thought they could make it do something else. They tinkered and hacked and low and behold, it did something else. And then another thing and so on and so on and so on.
By now millions of people in almost every country in the world are involved. Someone decided to make a list of the most influential people?
Isn't that like picking a few hairs out of your scalp and calling then your favorite?
I want to take my hat off and salute every single person and every single company who has ever endevoured to make something better! It is this insatiable need to improve that has taken mankind to where we are today and it is this same compulsion that will make tomorrow possible. In the grand scheme of things, Names like Torvalds, Gates, and whoever else are just figureheads for countless nameless and faceless people out there making things better.
Vlad once displayed a golden cup in the central square of Tirgoviste, ostensibly for thirsty travellers to drink from. It was never stolen.
-Oobob
Planned downtime my ass, silicon.com just had a tech who luckily spotted the /. about to be laid on his server. They can run this time, but they can't hide forever.
... and here's proof! They knew enough to schedule a shutdown in advance! COWBOYNEAL, YOU'RE GOING DOWN!!!!!1!1!1!!eleven
The World Wide Web is dying. Soon, we shall have only the Internet.
At first I read #33 as "John Conner", which on first reading, seemed about right.
Free GMail invite with Free iPods!
if only i had mod points
- tristan
I just have to know why humans spend so much time pondering the minutaie of those at the top of the hierarchy?
And this coming from a guy who always makes "But it sucks if you aint in the top 30 percent or so...." posts time after time?
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
If Linux hadn't come around, most of us Linux geeks would instead be using some BSD variant. Remember, FreeBSD came out within a year or so of Linux's first public version. Long before a vast majority of people even heard of Linux. Linux caught on so much faster in those days because it ran on less expensive hardware than FreeBSD could at the time.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
The real News fo Nerds is #1:
Highfield joined the BBC in 2000 and is in charge of the corporation's online and cross platform content and his impact has been considerable. His position atop the poll is evidence of the regard in which the panel holds the BBC and their belief that the corporation's global reach is truly setting the agenda - in terms of innovation, penetration and ambition.
The sites click on a name is already slashdotted.
When are folks like that going to understand that a mention on/. is going to kill their little server?
Bah, humbug
No cheers, Gene
Well I've figured this deathmatch tournament would be similar to the NCAA March madness. There you be 4 brackets with 12 slots. The 12th seed in 2 of the brackets would be determine by pre-tournament deathmatch to determine who would be killed by the bracket's number 1 seed.
Brought to you by Team SPAM! where we believe: "Information in the noise!"
and just how is that supposed to impeach or discredit my comment?
eat shiat and bark at the moon
I'd hardly say that Gates is non technical.
Umm.. Read Barbarians Led by Bill Gates. The guy couldn't even code a raster-flood algorithm, about ten years after they were available in ACM SIGGRAPH publications.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Jobs: most influential in fashion.
Torvalds: most influential in *actual* technology.
I'm not saying that Microsoft or Apple don't have any effect on technology, but anyone who thinks that Jobs or Gates are ubergeeks are deluding themselves.
Nathan's blog
>Mostly because if Gates died tomorrow, it would affect the economy a lot more than if Linus died tomorrow.
I disagree with that assertion. The man who
has been at the helm of Microsoft, Inc. since
2000 has been Steve Ballmer. Gates could get
hit by a bus tomorrow, and Microsoft, Inc.
would continue business as usual, using
their standard (rude) business practices
without so much as a gasp.
Torvalds on the other hand inspired a movement,
and (in my awfully naive opinion) gave the
FSF the credibility and recognition it needed
in the wider computing community that was ignorant of the GPL and the quality of
software that comes out of FSF.
If Torvalds were hit by a bus tomorrow,
Linux would continue, but the leadership
of the Linux kernel folks would be something
more like FreeBSD, where a consensus was required, since no single individual stood
out as the heir apparent. (My personal
favorite would be Alan Cox, but that's just
my personal favorite.)
Now, I know he's not real, but he's definately influential! Dilbert should be on the list!
I didn't discredit your comment. I merely pointed out that you should already know the answer by your own obsession of the elite.
1f u c4n r34d th1s u r34lly n33d t0 g37 l41d
And totally ignoring your pleas for avoiding a flame war, Richard's personal "style" is not a particularly influential one. Linus seems adept at orchestrating many factions into a semblance of cohesion, and is more influential as a result. To be blunt, Linus doesn't lead with his ego.
This story is just reattributed to Vlad. It was originally a story about Hatto II of Mainz, who was Archbishop there between 968 and 970 (those dates are provable facts). He also was said to have invited all poor in his diocesy to a huge meal, and he also commanded the doors to be closed and the hall to be burned down.
But when the hall sunk to ashes, a big tribe of mice broke out of the ruins and started to hunt Archbishop Hatto. He tried to have the mice squashed, killed, blocked, nothing helped. So he fled out of Mainz down the Rhine. Near the town of Bingen he asked a ferryman to row him over to a small island with a fortified tower built on it. He ran into the tower and blocked the door. But the mice, being millions of them, were swimming through the waters of the Rhine, reaching the island, entering the tower and eating Archbishop Hatto.
The tower at the island near Bingen can still be visited, it's called the Maeuseturm (lit.: Mice Tower) since then. For further references check a short descripton of the site. Other sources attribute the story to Archbishop Hatto I, a predecessor of Hatto II.
"From scratch? You wish. Even Linus doesn't claim that."
You're right. He clearly started with code from SCO.
Apple decides to use USB and Firewire... now they are "standard equipment".
Just because apple was the first to adopt these technology doesn't necessarily mean they should be credited with it being "standardized". It could have been anybody to take the first step.
Apple ditches the floppy drive... now you have to ask for one if you order dell, ibm or gateway. The floppy drive history, who cares who ditched it first, they all would have eventually, and I hardly believe this makes Steve Jobs a major influence on the technology world. (I'm not saying he isn't, but I don't like this argument.) I stopped installing floppy drives in my home built computers before apple did, maybe I should be on the list somewhere.
Duh, he fathered the guy who would one day lead the resistance and bring down SkyNet.
It doesn't get much more technology-influencing than that.
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
It's a list of the most influencial, not the coolest, the most innovative, or the most visionary.
The guy who is "only there because he owns a monopoly large enough that it can bastardize standards" obviously wields lots and lots of influence. There's a reason why Microsoft has been called the "800 pound gorilla" of the industry for the last 15 years or so.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
"I think that makes both of them better leaders and very high on this list."
I agree to some extent but I wonder if Apple will remain in business over the long run. Once Linux is popular enough, could MS buy Apple (without concern about federal lawsuits)?
Actually, Stallman inspired a movement to create an OS.
Linus manages and has managed the development of a kernel.
Big difference.
This despite the fact that she might not ever have written a line of code in her life.
Ratan Tata is India's famous Industrialist. He runs the Tata group of companies.
a ta .htm
http://www.tatachemicals.net/0_about_us/ratan_t
Shouldn't a person considered "Most Influential" at least be recognizable by a majority of people in that field?
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
Steve Jobs wasn't the only one to pirate PARC, *cough, Gates* remember, Xerox corporate wanted nothing to do with what was coming out of PARC at the time, and the tech was going to be shelved. So I guess making affordable ethernet common, and developing a GUI that could be used by anyone on a relatively affordable machine are minor achievements. And yeah, the work he did with NeXT was a mere hiccup in the road towards 100% windows market share, but remember, if it hadn't been Steve Jobs doing it, someone else would have come along for you to hate. And if nothing else, in the days when it was Apple vs Mac divisions in Apple, what else could has Jobs done? How about single handedly driving up the price of Tums?
Seriously, how can Bill Gates be in 7th place? Look at all he and his company has done to computers. It totally changed the way we use them and the way we live. You can badmouth him all that you want but you can't not acknowledge the importance of his accomplishments.
I have to agree with you on Hu Jintao.
My first reaction when I read his name was "Yikes! I thought this was nerds-only" (I am not aware of his being a nerd, even though he has a degree in engineering...) and my second thought was "Why the heck is he that low on the list?"
When reading their motivation, I was even further surprised that he has actually FALLEN (from no. 4 to no. 41), which is weird considering he has gotten more hold of the power now that Deng Xiaoping has given over his last formal position as Chief of the Central Military Commision to Hu.
Really, as practically the first person in history to get that much power in the world's most populous nation without use of (superfluous) force is quite a feat. We can probably imagine what would happen to the IT industry if China unleashed a war over Taiwan, you know... or decided to shut down some of its Special Economic Zones... No soup for you.
(Besides being an engineering nerd myself I am also a student of East Asian culture)
Then, to my mind, this means Linus, Alan, Richard, Manuel and all the others need to be paraded on Oprah, IBM commercials, and more. Have ANY of these been shown as Geek of the Week?
Instead of much of the reality TV bullshit, we need the 5-minute spot of Linux and F/LOSS personalities to be rotated. Not just Linus, tho, but ALL the major voices from the foreground to the average code contributor.
Surely, some will want to lay low for employment reasons, but others who have contributed code could as well be in a Freedom Hall of Fame. By corollary, ms' henchmen/women could be in the Encroachment Hall of Shame.
It would be nice if IBM would sponsore these commercials. I haven't watched much "live" TV, opting for eye-selected DVDs from the local import video shop, but is IBM doing anything lately. I did in the past 2 weeks look at the list
http://www.ibm.com/ibm/tvads/
of commercials IBM ran, but didn't see anything doing "The Average Freedom Lover".
Actually, putting a little cup o' tea in their hands in some tiny French cups, with Mandrake on one side of the table, and tall Lipton on the Red Hat side, with Novell & SUSE sporting Ginseng and a lager, we might get some serious laughs at microshaft's (lower-casing/deprecation of microsoft's name intentional/perpetual with me...) expense. But, it would take IBM's money to make sure the ads ran, or ms' marketing department would preempt all the ads slots...
David Syes
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Meg Whitman and Michael Dell? Why? The both run organizations that have horrible customer support!?!?
eBay makes Dell look good.
Southeastern Virginia REPRESENT!
All right, I will bite. Why would BG's death affect the economy? He headed the company, but now adays it is in Balmer's hands. As to the technology of MS's, they are notorious for either stealing or buying it. It is only in recent time that MS has really built up a power house of inovative tech guys. But BG himself has never been that technical.
As to charity, BG has NOT given money. That was his wife and parents that pushed it. BG stayed happily out of charity (and politics). Do not get me wrong. It is his money and he is free to do with it as he sees fit. But do not give him credit for where it does not belong.
As to giving more to charity, Linus gave us Linux and one of the very best OSS projects. Prior to Linux, GNU was moving very slowly. It was only after Linux was started that GNU really took off. And Linus gave away his time, his effort, and his ideas. Not even BG did that. In fact, BG has fought against this, his entire adult life. I would mark Linus as being one of the most charitable individuals on this planet.
Finally, Linus is in his early 30's. Who are you to say what the future holds in terms of earnings? It is quit possible that Linux will do even better than BG.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Jobs. He's the only one with personal vision. Torvalds and Gates were just in the right place in the right time. I think that Microsoft and Linux were BOUND to happen. If it wasn't either of thoes two, it would be others. Jobs on the other hand had vision. He produced the future. Gates and Torvalds just brough the present up to date.
Actually, from direct personal experience, the biggest problem with massive and centralised databases isn't malicious abuse. Rather, it's old-fashioned operator error, but now of the "one wrong number typed and someone's life gets turned upside down for months" kind.
Unfortunately, there is often an implicit culture of denial: the database is "almost perfect", so the procedures for fixing the effects of imperfections are rarely fully thought through, and often far more time-consuming and error-prone than they should be.
FWIW, I was over-taxed by several hundred pounds after someone at a tax office mistyped my National Insurance number (for our US friends: like a SSN, but in the UK) by one character, and inadvertently merged me with someone on the far side of the country. The scary part wasn't so much that I lost some money for a while, but that the first time I knew about it was when my pay-cheque turned up short and I queried it with my employer's accountant; no-one thought to check with me that my status really had changed. Worse, it took three months chasing numerous tax officials and accountants in several offices to get it fixed, because they didn't believe I existed -- the linked computer records had automatically messed up all my identifying information and confused it with the other guy's.
If that could happen to me a couple of years ago, think what's going to happen when your whole life -- medical records, benefits payments, criminal record and "unofficial" black marks, etc. -- are all tied in to the uebersystem, and then that same human in that same office has to type the same hundreds of nine-digit codes perfectly every day.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Linus: Created a broad based open source project in such a way that it is effective, controlled and has a long term plan. Because of his personal shepherding and his ability to attract equally focused individuals to lead the charge, he has helped to grow the open source community by orders of magnitude. And although his open source project is slowly altering the way major corporations do business, it has a much larger social impact: It is opening up all aspects of application and OS creation and development (source code, online development community, unimaginably large and detailed technical reference library) to anyone who can cobble together a 7 year old PC and an internet connection - potentially allowing a middle school grad in Zimbabwe or Nepal to write the next killer app.
Steve Jobs: Has an incredible knack for spotting the core essence of emerging technology, and creating a viable, profitable, system around it. In the process, a huge portion of the technological vendors follows in his wake (or try to). His significance is not in how well his products work (although they tend to work very well) but in that they define what the industry should be striving for.
Bill Gates: This is not meant to be a BG blast, but his significance is only to Microsoft shareholders (although, he is hugely significant to them) not to the industry or society at large. Microsoft is like Dell - they take what is out there and develop a great business plan around it, and execute it with amazing forcefulness. But they don't bring anything new technologically to the game. And they don't take us in new directions. Most MS new technology is simply proprietary versions of things that already exist and are starting to catch on.
Could you site book, chapter, and verse, please? Or is this just Bible FUD?
Where's ESR?
Where's Brad Templeton or other EFF directors?
How about ushering in some morality? I forget, business and morality don't mix.
If morality and business don't mix, then companies should just quit donating and doing charitable things.
Just this past Friday evening someone tried to assail my anti-ms stance with this weak argument:
"Do you know how many millionairs bill gates made? Do you know of ANY other company or person who donated as much as microsoft or bill gates?"
My standard argument response is: "If my parents donated $10 million to every county in the US and $1 million to every STATE in the US, but they were found connected to a string of animal slayings, child pornography or destruction of peoples's lives, should they be allowed to get off the hook, just because they give a shitload of money? Do YOU know how many companies ms fudded out of existence, still-birthed startups that tried to offer better and fairly-competing alternatives? Do you KNOW that a corporation company is accorded the status of PERSON, and that if a PERSON did to another what bill gates and henchmen/henchwomen did and still do to COMPANIES that would be called corporate murder, PEOPLE would go to jail?"
So, I'd say for morality and good-man points, Linus is more than head and shoulders above gates. I don't give a damn how much money he gives. The big question is: Can those donees take those computers and strip them of windoze and install Linux on them? Can they MIX those environments. Are they pre-conditioned before acceptance of the goods that they are receiving them contingent upon not using, testing, or talking about Linux, Open Source or even weighing in on behalf of any studies?
As for the argument that Linux is costing job, BULLSHIT. CEOs decide they can't cut their own compensation and instead whack salaries, rather than rewrite their staunchly widget-based sales model. If they adjust the model to charge for support, integration, testing, and such, and reduce the software cost to the cost of shipping, rather than fixing development to disks shipped or code delivered, then they could still exist. It also would force them to stop using PAYING customers and users as beta sites.
But, some of them still don't get it. They probaby won't ever, either.
David Syes
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Jobs has a record of promoting innovative ideas. Linux may be great from an intellectual property standpoint, but it does not really DO anything new. And, Gates mostly steals and repackages fairly well-established ideas. Jobs stole the GUI before it was really known, Gates stole it *after* it was known. In other words, Jobs is the more original idea theif.
I believe that computing would grow even if Gates didn't hog the market. Gates mostly just took market share rather than created it. If anything MS stiffled choices. Thus, Gates is only "great" from a financial standpoint, not an innovation standpoint.
Table-ized A.I.
But since he/she/it elicited your response, does that make him/her/it a "master bater"?
DOH!
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
The Time maganzine does this once a year on the political world scale and they don't judge. That is the most important thing. This is not about good or bad or evil or funny. Hitler even made the race once and they only chickened out on Osama bin Laden because they couldn't afford to loose so many readers (privatly held and out for profit press can't do everything, you know) that are keen on censorship. Something that gained a lot of popularity right after 9-11 (among other scary things).
Are you trolling or just that uninformed?
can't sleep slashdot will eat me
According to this site, Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation, Gates has donated $7.3 billion dollars. I despise microsoft as much as the next slashdotter but seriously, the guy has given away $7 billion dollars to people in need of help. I wish Linus and Jobs were more successful than Gates however there are more important things than technology.
Isn't that what happened at Jericho? If I recall, the entire population of the city was slaughtered (except for the prostitute and her folks...) once the walls fell down.
Slightly OT, but does place a precedent on mass-killing.
BTW, it was God who brought the walls down and commanded the killing. I wonder what the 4 year olds Jerichoans had done to upset God that much...
"Piter, too, is dead."
And I had a 'planned' puking last night. Right after my 'scheduled' passing out.
Maybe this is there 'novel' idea of dealing with Slashdotting. They're trying to get on the list for next year.
We can dream. :)
The government which is strong enough to protect you from everything is strong enough to take everything from you.
BTW, it was God who brought the walls down and commanded the killing. I wonder what the 4 year olds Jerichoans had done to upset God that much...
Well, four year olds can be extremely annoying and noisy. And as you know, God has a certain habit of resting on the seventh day of the week.
Why?
Steve introduced a general "cool" factor to computers that seems to get normal people interested in computers instead of thinking they're only for geeks. On the other end of the spectrum, Linus introduced an OS that would bring out some of the best in geeks. That leaves us with little ol' Bill, who's creations drive away geeks AND normal people. I think the only reason Bill made the list is because of his fat wallet.
I'm going to go create my own technology news site, with blackjack and hookers. You know what? Forget the news site.
As to charity, BG has NOT given money.
I don't know how true that *was*, but it is certainly not true as of july 21, 2004. From this article:
"Bill and Melinda Gates yesterday announced that all of an estimated $3 billion of the stock dividend that would have gone to the Microsoft chairman will instead be donated to their non-profit foundation in support of its efforts in global health, education and equity."
From my naive position, it seems that the perception is that Stallman may spearhead the movement, Linus inspires it. And, since inspiration relies more on perception than reality, I think Linux wins out on that one.
In other words, Stallman without Linus would not have managed to get the whole world lined up to commit to open source. Linux without Stallman would likely have ended up with a BSD-type license, and we'd be likely in nearly the same position with OSS being a major threat to Gates.
The story to which you refer can be found (in part) here.
But the story of Joshua at Jericho has absolutely nothing to do with Moses.
Oops -- wrong link. Correct link is here.
Everyone knows Tux is no. 1 on the list
I haven't seen an IBM ad in years in Belgium. In fact most people over here consider it dead apart from maybe the hardware
Artists against online scams http://www.aa419.org/
The whole thing was pushed by melinda (a PR person) as a way to make BG look better. It has worked. There are many ppl who think that BG is a good guy and did this program freely. Of course, many of these same people swear up one side and the other that BG invented the internet.
The real irony in this for me, is that my mother is one of those that really does think that BG invented the internet AND freely does charities. She has also told me that it was not about trying to make BG look like a good guy. Of course, she also thinks that GWB is either an alien or the devil incarnate. Or both.
:) Just kidding, Mom and Dad. Really.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
I've worked with RIPA http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts2000/20000023.htm
* all users arn't monitored.
* logs are kept as with most ISPs, however the length of time they are kept for varies.
* if designated people request information, you have to provide it. - no court orders etc.
* there are additional snooping features, which are quite ugly for all involved.
it is getting worse though. with the DPA http://www.hmso.gov.uk/acts/acts1998/19980029.htm you can legally hand over data to help prevent deaths, harm to people or crimes. You didn't have to hand it over if you didn't think it was justified, without a court order. This was good, but the protection it provided is being eroded.
I'm actually surprised that Gates is ranking so high.
While it's true that microsoft has a huge impact on technology (usually of the bad kind, but impact nevertheless), Gates himself hasn't had any worthwhile vision for the past 6 or 7 years. His first book was a laugh to anyone with a clue, his second book was a laugh to everyone with even a fraction of a clue. Nothing he has said during the past two years was not already said elsewhere at least a year before.
His influence is, of that there can be no doubt, in bringing those things onto the world media stage. If Gates says it, it's suddenly news, even if 50 other people said it 6, 12 and 18 months before.
While that does count as influence, does it warrant 7th place?
I mean, what has Gates done this year that has influenced technology in any way? All I've heard from him was marketing bullshit.
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
The REAL question is who would win in a street fight, Bill Gates, Steve Jobs or Linus Torvalds.
"BTW, it was God who brought the walls down and commanded the killing. I wonder what the 4 year olds Jerichoans had done to upset God that much..."
Are there any passages in the Bible describing the people satan killed? It seems like it's always god killing people by the thousands. In fact he flooded the world killing everybody in it except one family and the animals.
If there is a bible expert out there could you please give a reference to where Satan kills a few thousand people.
Thanks.
evil is as evil does
Why funny? SCO have certainly been influential this year, if not necessarily for the better.
Yes anybody could have taken those steps first but Apple did. Anyone could have have mass produced cars first but Henry Ford did. Anyone could have outlawed slavery but Britain was the first (major western nation) to have done so.
-- Using the preview button since 2005
Mods? I think he was making a joke.
LilMikey.com... I'll stop doing it when you sto
Its gawking, nothing more.
Just because one might exhibit some interest in such a table does not imply any sort of reverence. Its just at some level some sort of thrill of watching people "duke it out" in a manner and seeing who won, similar to watching a sporting event, seeing what movies win big at the box office, or who won a spelling bee. Nothing more.
I guess if it wasnt a tie there would be problems.
If Bill Gates was ahead of Torvalds, all of the Linux zealots would claim that the list was put together by an underground Microsoft operative.
If Torvalds was actually in front of Gates the whole list would be considered a farce.
The only reason that Jobs is ahead of both of them is so that is ego doesnt explode and kill innocent bystanders.
There were and are other open compilers.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
While it is impossible to say, I do not think so. One of the things that Linus wanted was a system that was opened, but could not be taken over. BSD licensing allows just that, and it would have prevented IBM, SGI, HP, etc. from actually working with the group. Each of these would simply have borrowed what they wanted and used it with Unix.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
If Gates has not given to charity then where did the $7.3bn in grants come from that his foundation has issued to date?
http://www.gatesfoundation.org/default.htm
I don't see the BSDs switching and they would really love to get that GPL "infection" that gcc represents for them out of their systems.
Analogies don't equal equalities, they are merely somewhat analogous.
I know that anything is possible - especially in the corporate world: but I think most of the owners of Apple would strongly resist a buyout attempt by MS. Back to that ideology thing... I know people invest to make money. But I also think a lot of Apple's investors have a degree of loyalty, born out of disgust with MS.
Slashdot Syndrome: the sudden, extreme urge to correct someone in order to validate one's self.
Though it saddens me to say it, I'm amazed that there are so many people connected to FOSS in there at all. If this is intended to be a list of "global trend setters" in technology (no flames, please, I can't read the article either) then FOSS is really a very small blip in the ocean. Perhaps the credit to people like Linus and RMS is intended to be symbolic, but really, I doubt most people making serious decisions have ever heard of anything they've done recently, or appreciate what they are (and, for that matter, really aren't) responsible for.
I'd expect the big "trend setters" to be those with truly wide influence. For example, compare the number of developers working on all GPL'd projects with the number of developers using Java, and consider therefore the relative weight of RMS's opinion against that of, say, Gosling. Compare the effect of a slashdotting with the number of hits on a site like the BBC that laughs at one, and consider therefore the relative weight of slashdot editors against that of, say, the BBC News Online editorial team. Of course these comparisons are somewhat apples vs. oranges, but you get the idea.
In other words, if you're looking for people with the greatest influence on technology, I'd expect it to be those who control Big Technologies -- possibly including the obvious people from places like MS, Sun, IBM and Apple, but remember there's more to technology than personal computing and programming -- and those who commentate on those Big Technologies when that commentary will in turn be read by the next-level-down decision-makers.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
Exactly what influence would someone at Red Hat or Suse have were it not for Linus?
They may sway more money nowadays, but with no Linus and Linux, neither of these companies means anything.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
Why was this modded insightful? It's just a lie. You can find hundreds of articles that will show you how untrue this is. Here's one:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/701860.st
starting "Microsoft chief Bill Gates has pledged $57m over five years to help protect young people in Africa against the threat of HIV and Aids" and with a caption under Gates' picture that reads: "Bill Gates: History of donations to fight disease".
And why is there no CowboyNeal option? Honestly.
I'd rather be lucky than good.
Quickly skimming the page, I thought you can just likened Gates to Elton John.
I'd rather be lucky than good.
I think I would like to see the top 50 on 'silicone.com'
TOM RIDGE?!!! Is this a list of technology trend setters, or the frontrunners in the battle to institute socialism and fascism around the globe? I mean, the guy looks like he could be a villain from an Ayn Rand novel!
I'm going to use foul language here. Fuck you, it is not a troll. It's a serious assertion.
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
"No. 9 Eric Schmidt, chairman and CEO, Google
Larry Page and Sergey Brin may have founded Google, but it's Eric Schmidt who's shepherded the company from kooky start-up to big-time public concern. For that, our panel has elevated Schmidt seven spots from last year to mark his debut in the Top 10 (while neither Page nor Brin make this year's list)."
As with the sun's light
My mom was magnificent
Unquestionable
I'll admit that I missed two things:
- That Kindall would probably have been less monopolisitc than Gates (though money has a way to corrupt -- e.g., is Ellison-cum-Peoplesoft benevolent?)
- That BSD would have filled the role in place of Linux.
But I think the motivation behind the "flamebait" rating is the present-day analogue to why those of my generation revile Bill Gates -- that he didn't do anything special and any one of could have done it instead. The new generation evidently feels deeply inside the same regarding Linus and Linux.Now if that isn't flamebait, I don't know what is :-! Seriously, the hostility to giving Linus credit on Slashdot is surprising. If not this explanation, then what?
"people would be well advised to take this posting with a grain of salt"
Tell that to Lot's wife!
But clearly, mr. Gates links to 08.html, and mr. Torvalds to 07.html ! So apparantly, they *were* able to seperate them, they're just afraid to admit it! :)
- Leon Mergen
http://www.solatis.com
Sure, they like to let you think that. But increasingly, you're the product.
Everyone not saved by the sacrifice of Jesus is as good as dead.
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
" Everyone not saved by the sacrifice of Jesus is as good as dead."
s/Jesus/Allah and you'd have a quote from Osama.
evil is as evil does
Are there any passages in the Bible describing the people satan killed?
Consider the book of Job.
Satan subsequently kills most of Job's family and servants. Even here, Satan is acting with God's tacit approval, which Job understood when he responds, "the Lord gave, and the Lord hath taken away." (1:21).
In Biblical morality death is bad but not necessarily the greatest evil. The people God kills are sort of collateral damage. Their deaths serve a higher purpose although what that purpose might be is the real question.
The most important guy is named "Abu," and he doesn't really speak English.
I heard that the Republican party used this guy to develop their "vault," or whatever, where they keep clones of Abu clothed in white armor. Naturally, the republicans don't speak Abu's language, so they used their secret weapon "W" to make monkey sounds at him.
Next thing you know, the Democrats are going to be outsourcing software to the Republicans to work on.
You need to restart your computer. Hold down the Power button for several seconds or press the Restart button.
OK, here's some of who you missed:
:o)
# 3. Niklas Zennstrom
That's professor Farnsworth's arch nemesis; the mayor would have fired him, but he has tenure.
# 6. Richard Granger
Hermione's father.
# 14. Sir David Tweedie
The guy who invented the suit with the leather elbow patches. Rumor has it they're gonna make a big comeback among geeks next year.
# 16. James Murdoch
He was the chopper pilot from the A-Team.
# 25. Joe McGeehan
He played Number 5 on "The Prisoner"
# 31. Len Hynds
Former bass player for UB40. Married to Chrissy.
# 33. John Connors
The leader of the resistance, responsible for the creation of time-travel (as skynet wants to kill him)
# 41. Hu Jintao
Maybe Intao is slang for 'Dick' ?
# 47. David Sainsbury
He invented hamburger helper!
# 48. Andy Duncan
70's sitcom star. She had her own show in 1972.
if Gates died tomorrow, it would affect the economy a lot more than if Linus died tomorrow.
If Gates died tomorrow, and if that death caused Microsoft sales to decrease (I don't see how, but who knows? - it might), then it would affect the economy, but not in a bad way.
Non-IT companies who use IT would have more money to spend on what they do best if they weren't paying hefty IT licenses and hefty IT support costs.
You make the mistake of thinking you can educate the fundamental stupidity out of people. You can't.
Every time I post, slashdot runs a port scan on 80, 1080, 3128, 8000 and 8080. wtf? anyone else?
That's probably to check if you're a proxy server. If so, you are allowed to do more posts in a certain amount of time, to avoid blocking thousands of Slashdotters who are surfing through their ISP's proxy servers.
In need of reliable and affordable server monitoring?
and my write in vote is Cowboy Neal!
"Our funds have never taken part in toxic or death spiral convertible financings of any sort" -BayStar's managing partne
"Blunkett has also revamped telecoms and internet access in the UK, although the difference to most UK web users may not be apparent, by making sure each web page visited or phone call made is monitored by the mobile operators, telcos and ISPs."
Is this true?
And you are also correct that the SCO case is not going to change any laws. I don't think anyone thought it would.
So far as changing the law, I would be astonished if much happened in "a year or two". In the last few decades, however, the tide has flowed mostly one way - that is, towards ever stronger IP rights. Groklaw and others like it might help to stem the tide. There are even hints that some judges read Groklaw, going by their writings.
And no, Groklaw, is not just about SCO. Two-thirds, perhaps. I've read a lot of interesting non-SCO articles on Groklaw.
"That's a tad different than "Love thy neighbour"."
Which is still different then "kill them all, kill their women, kill their children, kill their animals and salt the earth so that not even the plants can survive".
That old Jehova was one ornery motherfucker.
evil is as evil does
If something were to happen to Linus, what exactly happens with the kernel? Who makes the decisions then? Is there a legal "progression" of authority, or what?
There's a Bible search engine here that's an OK keyword search setup, I'd look this up myself if I had time.
Tech Public Policy stuff
In fact he flooded the world killing everybody in it except one family and the animals.
So let me get this straight... God killed everybody on earth except for Noah's family? He then told Noah and family to go and repopulate the earth. So who do Noah's children have sex with? Noah's kids have sex with their brothers/sisters and with their parents, their kids have sex with their parents, siblings, cousins, etc... repeat ad nauseum. Ewww... I guess we're all the product of one big incestual orgy.
Want to improve your Karma? Instead of "Post Anonymously", try the "Post Humously" option.
Exactly.
And while we're at it, I don't think they waited until the girls were 18 to "plant the seeds".
Of course, there was no one there to arrest them, so...
"Piter, too, is dead."
I'd say Gates is more important. Mostly because if Gates died tomorrow, it would affect the economy a lot more than if Linus died tomorrow.
What makes you think that the mere death of either Gates or Linus would have any real impact on the economy at the moment?
Yet there is only one aspect where they do have impact: Both are incredibly gifted public speakers-- if you ever watch Gates speak he radiates this sense of fascination with technology, and in this way, he can motivate others to be interested in Microsoft.
Linus is equally the effective public speaker but in a very different way. Linus can say about anything and avoid having it be political. He is an extraordinary convincing speaker because he not only is fascinated by the technology but understands things he talks about enough to explain things in very simple english sentences.
Both individuals have a sort of "quiet charisma" which has allowed their pet projects to be successful. But neither one is so indispensible that their projects won't continue strongly after they are gone.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
First instead of mentioning Bill Gates, I suppose you could mention the father of the Altair and IBM for making pc's marketable and into businesses as homes as genuine tools.
Without that Microsoft would never be.
Second, Jobs did do a great job with the Apple1 and II and being one of the first micro computer companies. However the gui that changed the world and led computers into classrooms for children and techno illiterates came from Xerox.
Also worth mentioning Xerox labs invented the ethernet. That in itself is its own innovation that changed networking and corporate communications overnight.
Last Torvalds only wrote an OS because he hated DOS and had no real alternatives. Its a great operating systen and a hard accomplished but Ken Thompson and Dennis Ritchie invented C and Unix for him to model his OS after. Also worth mentioning is RMS. IT was his vision of free software and the C compiler from the free software foundation that enabled Linus to write his os and port software to it. Free software was around before RMS in the term of posix tools(BSD's use these in addition to gnu) but there was no C compilier.
Give credit where its due.
Its sad to see that the true innovaters are not really reconigzed today. It only shows who is sucessfull and marketable.
http://saveie6.com/
Never heard of that one.
A former employer of mine tried to have me tell his customers we were upgrading our systems to our clients.
As you can tell I did not last their for long. Why is it never ok to lie but in business its expected?
http://saveie6.com/
It is good to see that RMS made the rankings this year. But one odd thing is this:
I think it is important to remember that if it were not for RMS, Linus could not be on the list. RMS's influence cannot be understated, and most (if not all) of the freedoms currently associated with Linux were his ideas. He should have been on the list since its creation.In any case, more exposure for him means more freedom for me and everyone, so I am happy he has finally been recognized by this ranking.
All data is speech. All speech is Free.
Here's how I view it: Jobs dictates the style of things. Gates dictates the little frills and add-ons. Torvald dictates stabilily and substance.
the question is who is more influential at setting trends, not who has the most current influence over trends which are already established. These are separate issues.
.Net framework or any other products that I can see.
Also, people tend to use Bill as a stand-in for Microsoft and Linus as a stand-in for the Linux communities. Trying to separate these things is difficult, so I will try to look at what these people are doing now and what influence they have over emerging trends.
Bill is no longer the CEO of Microsoft, and has some nebulous title regarding his work doing software achitecture. What exactly Bill does these days regarding Microsoft's internal operation is somewhat of a mystery to me. My suspicion is that he is involved in product strategy. But he was not the primary achitect of Microsoft's
OTOH, Linus is extremely closely involved in the architecture of the Linux kernel His technical influence is limited to this endeavor.
So?
With Linux on the rise in cell phones, embedded consumer electronic devices, etc. we have Linus to thank. I am not sure that any current Microsoft trends can be directly attributed to Bill.
Score: Linus 1, Bill 0.
The second issue is their effect on popular culture and their ability to motivate average people to look into technology. Bill has a serious advantage here. Many people have heard of Linus but they don't know who he is, or maybe if they are above average, they know that he came from Finland.
Score: Linus 1, Bill 1
Third issue is their ability to convince businesses to buy into their vision of the future of computing. Both are extraordinarily good at this. Linus is clearly better at this than anybody else in the OSS movement primarily because he makes very radical suggestions in a very mild-mannered and quiet way, as if the whole point of life is to have fun with everything.
I would give the point to Linus here. We are seeing more and more businesses buying into the concept first of Linux and later into the ideas of open source software. This is an emerging trend which is far more fundamental than anything coming out of Microsoft. I think that the Linux adoption is at least in large part due to Linus's amazing but invisible leadership skills.
So my score is Linus: 2, Bill: 1.
In my book, Linus wins for influence over emerging trends.
LedgerSMB: Open source Accounting/ERP
FYI, the Bible has no FUD but you can call it what you want. But if you fear and doubt it and are uncertain about what it says then I guess you just created your own FUD didn't you? Don't spread it around.
this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom. -- Lincoln, Gettysburg Address
I think the point is that God is actually evil, while Satan just encourages us to do whatever we want. What other reason is there for killing homosexuals and the like ? The whole book seems geared towards training people to tolerate injustice from those in power. That no doubt accounts for its popularity with leaders.
In Soviet America the banks rob you!
"Fashion" and design are not the same thing. Fashion exists for its own sake and doesn't require any functionality. Just ask anyone who wears pants so baggy that they can barely walk. Good design is the creation of things that have pleasing form while providing excellent functionality.
Jobs and Apple have always valued design as a vital component of their products, because they understand that technology can be made more useful if it is more approachable. After all, the Convergence hasn't arrived yet, and most humans like technology that works for them, rather than technology that forces humans to work for it.
As far as influencing the development of technology, being an ubergeek doesn't mean you'll make the list. The entire personal computer industry owes a huge debt of gratitude to Apple, and now so does the music industry. As the guy who led Apple in both of those endeavors, I'd say his influence on technology has been tremendous.
As for ranking Gates, Jobs, Torvalds, et. al. against each other in some sort of pageant, it seems like we as a society have become a bit obsessed with lists. I mean, there is no real way to quantify something like this, so it's all just opinion anyway. I feel like I'm reading Seventeen magazine when I see stuff like this.
Read the EFF's Fair Use FAQ
True enough. However, Stallman is one of the few vocal people out there who realizes the importance of technology in politics, and the enormous effect it has on society. This is boiling down to a black and white issue and he knows that - there'll be no fence sitting in the coming years.
I can't count the times I've been "admonished" for using software for "political reasons." There could not be a better reason.
And other people who donate to charities are selfish because all they care about is making themselves feel good or looking good to others. Its silly to try to dissect people's motives for giving. He's given more than would have been necessary just to seem nice. And he could always have married a 20 year old model and spent just a few million on creature comforts to keep her happy, if his motives were so terrible.
That's right. So all you knuckleheads who keep asking for the Raiders to win, would ya give it up and let a Diety get some sleep?
Why is it never ok to lie but in business its expected?
Because businessmen are, by and large, more interested in money than in being a decent, honest person. There are very few principled businessmen.
Okay Linus, use to code a lot, however with the size of the kernel now it just wouldn't be feasible.
I'm pretty sure that Linus has enough technical knowledge in a lot of areas within the kernel to say what goes and what doesn't, also keep in mind that he has a group of sub project maintainers whos job it is to look after specific areas.
This should be modded "Funny" - or "Insightful", since I will never again trust my C-64 hidden away in the basement with ... Never Mind.
Popularity, and influence, are two distinct concepts. Popularity projects an influence, but influence does not rely on the existance of popularity.
With who - nerds?
One of my favorite stories is a variation of Satan's Rebellion. As the story goes, Satan was the greatest Angel, but he rebelled and sought to overthrow God with his army of rebellious angels. In the version that I like, Satan wins, and manages to usurp the throne of God.
But Satan is so slick, he puts out the word that God won and that Satan was cast out. So God is in his heaven and all is right with the world. It would certainly explain a lot.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
"The Power of Bruce impales you!"
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
IMHO, "Everyone not open-minded enough to think for themselves may as well be dead."
Statements like the parent poster made condemn everyone who is not "saved by the sacrifice of Jesus" --- pretty close-minded thinking.
What about people who live a righteous, good life by all accounts - yet don't choose to follow the beliefs of any organized religion? Your statement appears to judge them "as good as dead", without regard for their lifestyle or actions.
Yes, Microsoft is great blab blab blab.. But realistically what makes bill gates more important than the guy that runs the coders in the bacement ? really has bill gates actually coded anything at all in the last 20years? has he ever written any code.. If so was it any good?
Bill gates has got some good business sense if somewhat unethical to many people. But the tallents of people are on different planes so putting them in a tie is a little daft in my opinion.
That wasn't text, it was meta text.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
About 10-15%, the majority from the Old Testament, but some from the New. I admit that's not very much, but I make a point of understanding what I read, and I think I'm generally familar with the most of the rest. Having reread my post, I don't want people to take my criticisms too harshly. Different people can draw very different lessons from the Bible, you should always read things for yourself. However, I found that God in the Old Testament was not very good at all, and Satan was somewhat of an enigma. A lot like George W. Bush and Osama, really.
That last sentence was just for the flamebait mod (which my other post somehow avoided).
In Soviet America the banks rob you!
People seem very confused, describing who is the most powerful or infulential.
Those answers are very different indeed than who is the Agenda Setter. While Torvalds in the end may have more of an effect on teh world, in terms of agenda for the computer industry I think you still have to hand it to Jobs.
Microsoft in playing catch-up in the OS (moving to support stuff like Rondevous, and real accellerated window systems), and is really chasing after Apple in the music industry (online store) and consumer electronic space.
There are some areas to be sure where other people are ahead of where Jobs is going, but few people get other companies chasing after them more than Jobs and Apple manage.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
thats because you post on slashdot....
"goodbye and hello, as always" ~Prince Corwin, from Zelazny's Amber series
Carver Mead has done more for the computer industry than Linus, Mr. Bill, or most of the others on that list.
READ about him before you judge this statement.
Not having him on this "Agenda Setters" list undermines it's validity.
or you could look at it this way,
without the evil(tm) MS gates would anyone realy care about Jobs or Torvalds.. Lets face it, i think Gates/MS had made those two what they are today.
You have 5 Moderator Points!
Which Helpless Linux zealot/MS basher do you want to mod down today?
1938- Adolf Hitler
1939- Joseph Stalin
1942- Joseph Stalin (2nd time)
1958- Charles De Gaulle
1979- Ayatollah Khomeini
2000- George W. Bush (Person of the Year)
It's interesting to note that Jeff Bezos (1999) and Andy Grove (1997) have both made times list, but so far Billy hasn't.
I think part of the problem is that Gates and MS have squandered much of their influence in their quest for coin. In the quest for profits, MS has taken many shortcuts, which is not something I look for in a leader.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
The market is important. The customer is not. You start out with "everybody". From there, you pick a target market. From there, you have a considerable number of people in that market that aren't willing to pay, have too wierd taste, strange hang-ups and whatnot.
And of those that *are* your customers, many are not important. Those that only hunt the bargain bins and blow-out sales aren't contributing much to your bottom line. Typically, you have a 80/20 relationship where 80% make up the "volume" with all the economics of scale, and 20% that rake in your profits.
Of those 80%, you don't really do much to appease a small portion of them - you still mostly get the volume and don't need customers you lose money on. The 20% are those where the customer is important, really important.
Of course, there's more than pure financials, you can e.g. have trendsetters in fashion. Those are very important too. But it follows much the same pattern. Some are too "freaked", some you lose to cheaper store and so only, only a fraction of your customers are important.
Of course, you're always supposed to give the impression that each and every customer is important, and is sounds very friendly and helpful. But that doesn't make it any more true.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
know people invest to make money. But I also think a lot of Apple's investors have a degree of loyalty, born out of disgust with MS.
You probably think wrong. Seriously, other than a few big holdings (Jobs owns 5 million shares, for example), the majority of the stock is held by mutual funds, pensions, and other institutions. The purpose of these institutions is to make money, and if there was money to be made by selling to MS, they'd leap at it. No personal feelings of loyalty enter into it.
Thankfully, I don't think MS ever will attempt to take over Apple. Where would they get their free R&D if they did?
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
Wrong. Apple paid Xerox for the PARC research and technologies that they used.
It's not offtopic, dumbass. It's orthogonal.
> if it weren't for Linus, the OSS movement would now stick to a free OS based
> either on 386BSD or GNU/Hurd
It would be BSD. The whole lawsuit thingy was settled and the caveat-free
version released a couple years after Linux started to really get popular
in the OSS community. Hurd wasn't anywhere near finished yet at the time.
However, I don't think OSS would be as popular as it is without the influence
of the Linux kernel. I believe there are *more* people using BSD today than
there would have been if Linux hadn't been written, because somehow Linux
shone a light of popularity on OSS, and people took notice. There are quite
a lot of people who start out experimenting with Linux and then move on to
the harder drugs of BSD as it were.
Heck, without the influence of Linux, Hurd might _still_ not exist.
But Hurd isn't the largest influence that Stallman or the FSF have had.
Emacs is much more influential than Hurd, for example. So is bash. Still,
I think these things are more popular and influential than they otherwise
would have been because of the popularizing influence of the Linux kernel.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
I once thought as you did (and I've probably read about 95% of the Bible thoroughly). I gave it much thought and thought that God is not all good. But after even more thought, I realized I was all wrong. When most think of good to compare God to, thoughts of Santa Claus come to mind (which God is not and can not be compared to): an immortal, or nearly so, working selflessly to bring joy into the world, but then rocks and coal come to mind as well, which does not seem purely good. Maybe we are so evil that we think that any bad consequences (for us or others) to our actions constitute not purely good. If there is a god who is bent towards evil, then what would he care about us doing any good or evil (nothing can harm him except for himself, which is why this god can not exist, as the smallest evil causes harm)? If there is a God who is completely good, then only He, and Him alone, could judge fairly, and prevent worse consequences down the road.
If you follow the Bible, God gave us free will, the most dangerous and awesome power we hold (even above our intelect, for history is filled with the not so bright that have changed the world, for better or worse). This accounts for the evil in the world: choices for evil (which we can not attribute to God). (A side note: all evil and sin can be summed up by selfishness.)
If God gave absolute proof to His existence all the time, then we would have no free will to choose otherwise (absolute proof, which God is powerful enough to provide, would transend free will). The last step must be faith. The New Testament has the same God, but now there is a mediator and ultimate sacrifice (if the sacrifices of the Old T. were sufficient, then they would have only had to been done once Hebrews 7:24-28). God making a way out for our evil is undeserved goodness (grace).
I do not have time to elaborate more, as these are very "meaty" statements, but they come after much, long thought. I am not a philosopher (there is no real money in that), but a software developer that gets ripped-off (so far, there is very little money in it =). So, my arguments and statements may not be perfectly formed, but these are a few reasons I believe in Christ. As my favorite series said, "The truth is out there," which implies the search to find it.
Aren't all polls of this kind?
Do you expect Windows XP to suddenly stop working, or what?
;)
Yes, dailly, then reboot
Sorry about my bad english, isn't my natural language
America starts in Tierra del Fuego and ends in Alaska
Get a grip. I was not "devaluing" the victims of pornography or exploited children. I was pointing out the MAGNITUDE of complacency among consumers, and the level of corruption among many CEOs, boards of directors, and the lawmakers who supposedly are on the side of good, or good policy.
The point is that if IIII had gates' money, and were myself not outspoken, I could buy off just about ANYone, even if the sheepish public bought my shit but mildly hated my guts. At that level, I could be the corporate Mugabi or Manson and probably still get off the hook. (Sigh, I can see it now... gates, Mugabi and Manson in the same short paragraph...)
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Yeh, right, Spock. (There was a signature on /. I saw which seemed pretty funny and obvious.)
Points for you, though, for you appear to be in complete control of your emotions, Spock.
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
[sarcasm] Oh yeah, when Paris Hilton was born, it was touch and go whether she would live her life rich and pampered. Smart and prepared, that's our Paris to a fare-the-well. Likewise Prince Charles and the whole British Royal Family. I am just so impressed with how they got to where they are today! [/sarcasm]
--- Often in error; never in doubt!
Donald Knuth number 40? With Steve Jobs number 2? Please don't get me wrong, I am all for gay and fashionable cool gadgets, I own many of them myself as well as recommend Macs for workstations in my institute which adds a little bit of fashion, bright colours and life to an otherwise sad and boring scientific laboratory, but I believe that an author of The Art of Computer Programming which American Scientist has included among the best twelve scientific monographs of the twentieth century, as the only one on computer science, along with works of Albert Einstein, Paul Dirac, John von Neumann, Richard Feynman and Benoit Mandelbrot, just from the top of my head, rated as number 40 in this pathetic list is an outrage, for not only it proves that the author of this laughable list is an incompetent moron, but it is also an insult to our intelligence that we as a Slashdot community are linking and promoting such an idiotic stupidity. Misplacing Richard Stallman may be understandable and perhaps even justified in the context of popular opinion that one should avoid GNU in GNU/Linux but misplacing Donald Knuth is plainly an utter outrage and I would hereby like to sincerely apologise Donald Knuth in the name of the entire Slashdot community. Please do not identify us with the outrageous incompetence of the abovementioned list of "important" people.
Sincerely,
Pan Tarhei Hosé, PhD.
"Homo sum et cogito ergo odi profanum vulgus et libido."
Thank you for your insightful response.
In Soviet America the banks rob you!
There are deffinatly passages that say it is a sin (Leviticus 20:17
17: And if a man shall take his sister, his father's daughter, or his mother's daughter, and see her nakedness, and she see his nakedness; it is a wicked thing; and they shall be cut off in the sight of their people: he hath uncovered his sister's nakedness; he shall bear his iniquity.
Also says execute homosexual men and shun anyone who has sex with a menstrating woman (13 and 18 in same chapter).
So I would take the whole chapter with a grain of salt, but deffinatly incest is punishable by shunning and is wicked.
Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg