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Stuffing Junkmail Postage-Paid Envelopes?
Yesterday I mentioned that I've started returning the postage paid envelopes that come in most junkmail... except I returned them emptya as my personal little statement against the waste in time and resources that they are causing. Many readers emailed to tell me that I only had it half right: I should be weighting the envelopes down and forcing the junk mailer to pay postage on my little care packages. Have others tried this? What works? Most readers had suggestions ranging from sending each junkmailer the contents of a different junk mailers envelope to filling the envelope with shreddings from your crosscut paper shredder. Of course my personal favorite was the guy suggested a few pieces of sheet metal). Take a stand against junk mail! Sorry Mr. Postal Worker!
How to stop junk mail from even arriving
Pre-emptivly strike out junk mail, so you don't have to waste your time and recyclables!
They are soliciting your business. In fact, in the case of credit cards, they are making an offer that can have a significant impact on you financially. This is a legitimate business reason to request a credit report on the CEO and CFO of the company. Do so, then send a copy to their corporate HQ requesting clarification of a few questionable entries.
What if you were to fill the envelope with oregano/baking powder/powdered sugar or something else to resemble a narcotic, then cut a little corner of the envelope off so that a little spills out when it is handled by Mr. Postal Worker? Only problem I can think of is who the worker would call. It wouldn't be too cool if he called 911 and wasted a police officers time on this crap, but a call to Mr. Junk Mailer from Mr. Drug Enforcement Agent would be quite interesting (yeah, they might test it first and pooch the deal, but you never know). I'm very much anti-"Wasting police officer time on stupid crap like this", but how much business do drug agents in Bumsville, Idaho where most of these places live, get anyway...might spice up their lives a bit Oh, and don't let anyone see you put it in the mailbox, either.
Who cares about his fallen arches and aching back? Postal workers get paid $20 an hour for doing a job that any half-trained hydrocephalic chimpanzee could do, and they do nothing but bitch about their jobs and misdeliver the mail.
Tape the reply card to a three-inch block of solid neutronium, for all I care.
A truly sad state of affairs when a postal worker gets a bonus for violence, too. Check out the PostalCam and how the USPS rewards its carriers for violence. http://www.neta.com/~caradoc/postalcam.html
Sorry, that's not true. Our company has used business reply envelopes. They arrive just like postage due mail would. We have to pay when they get delivered. I'm sure that companies that use business rpely mail a lot have some sort of account with the post office where they only get billed monthly. Reply rates for mass mailings is very low, probably 1 - 2 percent. Why would a company pay postage for all those envelopes that never get used? The Post Office also only gives discounts when mail is sent in bulk - because it saves them sorting costs. There's no way return mailers would reduce sorting costs, so it would cost (now) 34 cents per envelope. They might as well just put a real stamp on each envelope (and some do, when they don't have time to get the proper account from the Post Office.)
It is wrong to waste someone's time or energy with junk mail, but if we should retaliate, we would be no better.
Just ignore it if you can. Hopefully, they'll slow down.
Prevention is probably the best cure, or at least a good control method - don't give out personal information, change it often, or just use fake information.
And that was after Ellison had the Lithuanian hitman talk to him. I definitely admired the comptroller's stamina.
The postal service charges the first-class postage for the piece, and then an additional fee for the trouble of handling business reply mail.
Taping the envelopes to a brick won't work, though. Postal regulations consider business reply mail envelopes stuck to other things to be waste -- possibly to eliminate this very problem.
P014 is the procedure for getting refunds (of any sort; let's say you bought the Elmer Fudd stamps, but wanted the Daffy Duck ones) from the post office. Getting the money back is a big pain in the ass; you've got to give the post office packages of 100 identical pieces of mail, with identical denominations of postage on them; you've got to pay them $15 an hour to look through them and make sure the postage is really there. There are all sorts of forms to fill out. And then you don't get your per-piece charges (i.e. BRM service fee) back.
My guess would be that few BRMs with postage on them are ever redeemed; only very large organizations could make it worth their while. Small non-profits would actually lose money if they tried to redeem that postage.
The real problem is that the US postal system would soon, if it's not already, become totally dependent on the income from junk mail, and would fight any attempt to stop it.
Return their mailing? Sure. If your name and/or address appears anywhere, obscure it. If they request information, put in totally fake garbage.
The idea isn't to save the environment, it's to put the lousy spammers out of business.
See, those companies are charged the postage for the envelopes when they *buy* the envelopes, not when the envelopes are actually mailed. There is a flat charge the Post Office charges for each envelope, which includes the return postage.
The price per envelope is fairly cheap, but significant, which is why most utilities nowadays make you put your own stamp on envelopes - IMHO, a particularly annoying bit of cheapness on the part of these companies. I'm half-tempted to remove 33 cents (or whatever it is now) from each of my bills to cover my postage costs.
So dropping those Business Reply envelopes in the mail is just causing problems for your poor mail carrier, and is not costing the company anything extra.
Just write on it Refused, return to sender. That works nicely. They get it back at expense, and then they know that you dont want their mail.
--== So many idiots, so few comets. ==-- --== Stupidity should be painfull. ==--
Takes about 6-8 weeks (long lead time on direct mailings) and then it goes away. It's not a very publicized thing, but direct-mail opt-out does work. (in order to get cheaper bulk mail rates, there's rules you have to follow.) Contrast to email opt-out, which does not work. No incentives to abide by it, no penalties for not doing it.
Junkmail free,
--Dan
Unfortunately this won't work. The post office will not forward (or return to sender) anything that's sent Bulk Rate Presort. This is why mail forwarded from an old address does not include junk mail.
or a modem
I used to do that years ago. I don't get much junk mail free return address lately though.
Calling 1-800 lines is fun too. You have to be really bored, though.
--
Be careful, your laugh could blow up in your face. If you want to call a toll free number, do it from a public phone.
How so?
Besides in my country, they can't circumvent caller ID blocking. If they did, they'd face up to 3 years jail time, considering computer privacy laws.
--
About 20 yrs. ago a guy in Atlanta was very upset that his dying mother kept sending her last pennies to a televangelist (might have been Falwell himself.) He did just what you suggested.
The televangelist lost a lot of cash, so he enlisted law enforcement to go after the caller. The caller was convicted (not sure if he got a fine, did time, or both).
Moral of the story: When it comes to the public phone system, the FCC and its brethren take DoS attacks seriously. Very seriously.
.sig a .sog, .sig out loud, .sig out .strog"
".sig,
".sig,
I once got a funny postcard: A cola-can made flat.
the guy sending it to me had indeed put on enough postage.
The fun is that when it got here, it had obvious marks on it that it had gone through an automated mail-sorting machine...... and jammed there.
:-)
Roger.
I like the next person do not like getting junk e-mail/mail but the main difference between e-mail the regular mail is that you do not have to pay for you to get your mail. The postal service it self is one of the very few government agency that pays for itself. So as a consumer you do not have to pay the get your mailed delivered to you. There are many ways ways to make sue you do not get your name on a mailing list read before you ever put your information on something call the credit burea and ask them to take your name of thier list. Instead of sending empty or over stuffed evenlopes send a letter to them asking them to take you of thier and make copy of your letter if they send you agian send them another saying you will sue if they send you another piece of mail then if they send you agian sue them that will hurt more than just mailing them a stuffed evenelope. There are ways to protect yourself agianst junk mail use them do not be childish.
I can only speak for the UK, but we have credit histories here. If you mess up, credit companies will be able to see it for ages... I can't recall what effect the data protection act has in relation to this though, appart from the obvious "access to data about yourself..."
And, because your name and address are in the envelope, so that you can be removed from the mailing list, the post office will have your ass for mailing it. Yes, they have rules about what you can mail. No, you can't mail tsatsiki without using a proper container (which, naturally, the recipient wouldn't open, not being utterly stupid.)
--
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
It could help the economy! :-)
-- Thrakkerzog
Well, paper companies will like it. They may have to employ more people to keep up with demand. The post office will have to hire more people to sort and deliver it. The companies will have to employ more people to handle all of it. Brick companies will need more people to make bricks.. etc..
In the end, it will make it back to the consumer in the price of products. I don't mind paying $0.20 more for something if it means more people can have a job.
-- Thrakkerzog
Obviously we can question were that fact came from (the DMA) and then conclude (as intelligent readers) that the number is doubtful but does have a slight chance of being possible.
That is the last thing I need. What I need is the right to communicate my thoughts to anyone even if that includes trying to get them to buy something. Instead of coming up with creative solutions to problems so many jump to "have the government regulate it". The junk mailers will just find a new way that bypasses the government censorship. Come up with a better solution!
Stuart Eichert
Stuart Eichert
Are you people that petty that you'll waste time in your day sending these things back in? It takes less time to throw it away. Chris
They would think something hokey is up if the sending address is the same as the return address.
we are building a religion
a limited edition
we are now accepting callers
for these pendant key chains
I remember seeing a trailer on TV for a movie called "The Twits" or something, an old Roald Dahl book. Tom Arnold, the main character, went outside and yelled back to Mrs. Twit "HONEY!!! Somebody stole our trash again!"
;)
God damn my free associating mind...
we are building a religion
a limited edition
we are now accepting callers
for these pendant key chains
If junk mail suddenly stopped tomorrow, you'd be whining about the high price of postage.
Unlike spam's affect on e-mail as a whole, junk mail actually subsidizes the cost of sending first class letters. Why do you think we pay a pittance for a letter here in the USA? Compare $0.34 to anywhere else, and then decide.
Just recycle it and stop wasting your time with elaborate attempts at discouraging junk mail.
No gods, no masters
There are plenty of low wage jobs around, I have no sympathy for peole who pick one that annoys people. They should swing by their local Walmart or McDonalds. They might not get any respect, but at least they don't annoy people.
And, no, I don't really care if they technically work for a different company then the one who sent the junk. Usually, that means they work for a professional junk mail company, which is even worse. But even if they don't, they will still pass the cost on to the company that's supposed to get the benefits, and that ordered the junk mail in the first place.
I'm rather sick of large corperations assuming they have the right to pester me to buy their product. I'll buy their damn product if I want to, and only then.
Oh, and a second thought...has anyone heard about the idea of charging people to send you email, and giving them back the money if you like it...well, that's exactly what this is. You're making them pay if you don't like the mail!
Oh, and my favorite suggestion is a combination of gritter, in case humans open it, and small strips of metal to screw up the machines. On second though, I heard that some machines have metal detectors (look, we're already costing them money), so how about sending toothpicks and glitter instead. Nice and cheap, yet will waste time and possible destroy machines.
-David T. C.
If corporations are people, aren't stockholders guilty of slavery?
They get paid to deliver mail. More mail is more job security. Why would they be upset people are sending mail, for any purpose? It seems like they would be more worried by trends toward *not* doing business by mail.
Depleted uranium != spent fuel, thanks for playing.
"That fat, dumb, and bald guy sure plays a mean hardball."
And I'd be a Libertarian, if they weren't all a bunch of tax-dodging professional whiners.
Berke Breathed
When there are car give-aways in the mall where you have to divulge your name, address, email... to win a $25K car (The car on display will be a range-rover at $50K+) do this:
- Spill your shake in the slot (partially open window) of the car.
- Steal all the forms. I used to shove them all in the slot of the car but now I destroy them. Steal the pens too..
- Write REALLY nasty things on the forms before inserting them into the slot.
- Abuse the system at will.
What about collecting both these enveloppes and the form going inside then, when you've enough of them, cross fill the formsand then them...
These spammers would probably notice they don'thave these addresses in their DB and add them to their Spam DB...
Only do it for FREE info, never order anything as it would turn back against you.
They 'll have to make people work on these forms (if you send empty enveloppe, noone get paid to read what is written in the form.)
If you are spending time reading the complaints (and especially if you're spending the boss' time trying to convince them to stop) then a finite resource (your time) is being consumed and the complainers are making it just a little bit less economically viable. No?
---
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
I go to a State University, and as the students on here may know, you can't swing your wedding tackle in a circle on a college campus nowadays without having it cut off by papercuts from credit card applications dumped all around campus.
These applications are deposited illegally on campus property (everything distributed on campus must be approved by the dean of students) but the custodial staff (being state employees) don't work very hard, and leave them lying around. I however, like to make a point of collecting every one I can find on campus (for instance, my entire bookbag is full right now, I estimate about 1500 are in there) and dump them in the mailbox blank.. feels soo good..
Praise the Force Field! Praise the Laser Project! Slackware Loon #19830573
Geee, there hasn't been a "waste of space" article on /. today... Someone comes along and
corrects me.
this space intentionally left blank
Bad Slashdotter! Incorrect!
The post you replied to brought up a valid point. Why should the public send money to a company for not sending them junk mail? That's like paying a child not to misbehave.
Keep in mind, the original post wasn't talking about sending money to a third-party organization with some teeth and and interest in protecting your mailbox. The original post was in reference to a post about sending money directly to the companies in question for not sending you their marketing garbage.
The ACLU and EFF are charities. They fight against a pre-existing problem which they did not cause. That's the difference between sending money to a charity so they can fight for an issue and sending a company for not doing what they're not supposed to do anyway.
I don't seen how you could even remotely relate the two.
aÍÍ©ÍÌÍ£Ì'̽ͩÌÍzÍYÌÍÌY
I called `em as I see `em, and I guess I must have saw this one wrong(?).
Someone mentioned that sending anti-spam money to the companies directly would be extortion, I saw your reply post which asked if sending money to charities was extortion as well, which it isn't.
The reason this was misunderstood was because of the post that you were replying to and the fact that you didn't re-cap what you had said in the post that you were responding to.
That being said, I am quite sorry for calling you a "Bad Slashdotter!". I should have posted that in reply to the "isn't this extortion" post.
Please accept my apologies.
aÍÍ©ÍÌÍ£Ì'̽ͩÌÍzÍYÌÍÌY
In many countries, such as Denmark where I live, you can pay practically all your bills electronically. The banks collectively run a payment service that is a lot like the British Direct Debit. The creditor gives information to the bank each month on how much is to be charged, and you also get a paper statement so you can still stop payments. The statement doubles as a receipt. In most banks it is virtually free (perhaps 10 cents or so per bill).
'But I thought you boys could use a nice bowl of chili!'
ROTFLMAO! That is absolutely outstanding. I have to try that.
--
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Almost, but not quite, true. One time I gave someone a stock certificate as a gift. My broker sent me the certificate in an envelope without a logo, with only a P.O. box for a return address. In addition, the envelope said, ``Important. Do not discard.''
So, of course, I almost tossed it because I thought it was junk mail.
The person I gave it to later told me that she had been sorting her mail and almost threw the envelope out as well, for the same reasons.
According to the Straight Dope, home of all useful knowledge, sending a brick will do no good, as it will simply be discarded by your local post office. Sad, but true.
Silly signature limit . . .
I had a friend who owned a video store, and thanks to him I know that there are, in fact, pr0n industry trade mags. The big one is called "AVN" ("Adult Video News" I believe). They are the ones who also host the "pornies" or whatever they call their awards ceremonies. But it is a true trade magazine (ads for display cases and title library storage systems).
-- "I am disrespectful to dirt. Can you not see that I am serious!"
You could always do what my friend and I did while teenagers. We would duplicate the postmark/contract number that indicated "no postage necessary" and print it on all our envelopes. Everything we mailed out was on the bill of Mr Junk-mailer. Of course, being paranoid, we left our return address off the mail, but it worked for us until we grew up a little. :)
There is always someone willing to take crap for minimum wage, which would make me conclude your's is the useless tactic.
Anm
Save your junk mail for a week.
Weigh it, measure how tall it stacks.
Now multiply both those amounts by a
conservative 100 million.
That's a lot of paper... that's a lot of
ink (hopefully enviro friendly stuff. but probably
not... the nasty stuff is much cheaper)
That's a LOT of dead trees.
Would be nice if they had to pay an extra tree
planting tax.
I also agree that the increase in postage should
have been applied to bulk mail. They send more
than anyone anyway. *sigh*
Personally.. I don't send a lot of mail.. and
I don't really get much junk mail. I used to get
tons of it, then got smart. So, I really do
understand what folks are complaining about.
*shrug*
Friends don't let friends buy Compaq's. (Dell/Gateway... same same) You want a good computer? Build it yourself.
When they pull your telephone number from their bills and come collecting for your abuse of their resource.
Blar.
My late uncle did this and showed me. He was a postman.
Or the common one from when I was little, "I'm going to spin my arm around and if you get in the way it's your own fault."
"There are no cool guys in musicals." -- Coach McGuirk
As several people mentioned in the previous story, fill the envelopes with glitter. Glue or duct tape the envelope shut so that it is harder to open. Once it is opened, the glitter goes everywhere (try to find the powery glitter, it floats in the air) and is almost impossible to clean up.
That's a great idea. I'll bet powdered copier toner would work even better. There's almost nothing harder to get out than copier toner.
Just put a slice of SPAM (Hormel's infamous meat product) into the reply envelope and mail it. I'd imagine that by the time it has been processed through the USPS's mail routing machines and left to ripen for a few days during transit, it will be quite a treat for them to open, and make a tasty snack for the junkmailer's mail opening machines. Just a small way of giving them a taste of their own medicine.
Meldroc, Waster of Electrons
IIRC, I read this from some article about a kid who tried to build a breeder reactor(?!) in his backyard toolshed. If you can get a hold of a few old smoke alarms, you can extract Americium from them. You can also get elements such as Radium and Thorium from mundane sources such as antique clocks with glow-in-the-dark faces. The hard part is processing such materials so they are suitable for irradiating junk mailers without irradiating yourself and turning your garden shed into a Superfund site.
Meldroc, Waster of Electrons
I know a gal who had a stamp that said
RETURN TO SENDER, REMOVE FROM MAILING LIST"
She would stamp the junk mail without opening it, and this for about a year and the junk mail is almost zero now
I'm curious how many other people clutter up thier kitchen table swith junk mail. (and how many of these people actually USE thier kitchen table for anything other than a junk mail receptacle)
If it makes you feel better, Taco, go for it. But realize you are NOT helping to make progress in changing what you see as a problem.
the *only* effective way to protest is to make somebody pay.
May this is true, but more often, the ones who end up paying are the customers and not the big evil companies you are trying to fight.
telemarketing is ultimately paid by the advertising business, which I of course avoid.
HAHAHA! That's funny. If you had truly avoided the advertising business then you would either be living off the land with your Amish brethren or holed up in a shack a la The Unibomber. Either way, you wouldn't be on the internet which is rife with advertising. Is is nearly impossible to go to a store and buy products in which 100% of each dollar you spend does NOT go to advertising in any way. That is capitalism.
Don't forget about the dozens of subscription request cards that drop out of every magazine you pick up...
"Grab them by the pussy" -- President of the United States of America
Not junk mail... the free postage for return envelopes... I know I like it when I don't have to use an overpriced stamp...
Sig missing. Reward.
Haven't you guys ever heard the expression, "All it takes is a few assholes to fuck things up for everyone else"?
If you start doing this, ALL companies will stop providing this basic (albeit expected) service. Don't be an ass.
Sig missing. Reward.
Why assume postal workers are male? Just 'cause some deliver "mail"?
each piece of mail is required by law to cover its own cost.
amex charges extra because they don't make money on interest. it's also illegal for businesses to charge extra for credit card transactions; cash discounts, however, are legal.
It makes sense if you use a credit card company that has never junk-mailed you. I do.
:)
If making the bad guys pay extra postage makes them charge more, then they'll have problems competing and stop.
In my dreams
+++++
+++++
The harder you look the less you see. That's what we're up against.
Yeah - they're rotting our freedom with their insidious opt-in schemes!
Slippery slope arguments suck. Get a life.
+++++
+++++
The harder you look the less you see. That's what we're up against.
The long distance Telephone company I use (Working Assets) tries to differentiate itself by being environmentally- (and, to my dismay, socially-) responsible.
Anyways, Working Assets sent this pre-addressed postcard to its subscribers, saying, "Hey! If you want to reduce junk mail and save trees, fill out and send in this postcard!" It sounded cool to me, so I filled out and sent in the postcard.
In the past few months, I have indeed noticed a change in the junk mail I receive. Make no mistake, I STILL GET JUNK MAIL. But now the mail is almost entirely companies with which I've had some interaction. Like, I ordered a gift of scented soap from a mailorder catalog 2 years ago, now I have a "relationship" with them and they try to sell me scented soap every month or so.
Whatever...it amuses me that these organizations take the trouble and expense to mail me paper which I immediately recycle without looking at it. Every few weeks I take out a big, heavy, grocery sack full of the ex-junk-mail to be recycled. Taken as a single whole, it would cost a hell of a lot to mail in one package.
Anyway, I used the service, and it made a slight difference. But make no mistake -- you'll still get junk mail, people....
Part of the Second American Revolution!
Use Bricks! Or, my favorite - cat poop!
Fawking Trolls!
"Going to war without France is like going deer hunting without your accordion." - Jed Babbin
Why can't the US drop it's paranoid fear of government and implement such a system?
For starters
the UK encryption key laws
the UK ISP laws
the UK ownership of guns laws
Dyslexics Untie!
That's simply not the case. Did you ever notice the little barcode imprinted on those envelopes? The postal service scans the bar code and bills the sender for every piece that gets sent. No scan, no pay.
TPS allows you to register on-line as well, and give links to the Fax Preference Service, and the UK DMA.
Uh.. Yeah.. they know SOMEONE read it, but they have no idea who, if you dont put your name and address on the reply card..
But I agree with the person that mentioned the real costs of sending out postal advertising, as opposed to the rip-off that email SPAM is..
Equivalent in Belgium:
Belgisch Direct Marketing Verbond
Dienst Consumentenzorg
Buro & Designcenter
Heizel Esplanade B46
1020 Brussel
tel: 0800/91.886 or 02/477.17.97
Ask for the form to get on the "Robinson list"
I take the contents of one junk mailing and put them in the reply envelope of the other. That way, my kitchen table doesn't get cluttered up so fast, and perhaps some mailroom worker will win $10,000,000 unexpectedly.
Normally I just recycle the junk mail. However, the one from Citizens for Decent Literature asking for a contribution sent me over the top. I returned the centerfold from a Zap comix book. It was, "The Gypsy Jokers meet Ruby and the Dykes at the roadhouse". Hey, it's a contribution. :-)
Two Words: AOL Discs
good idea. normally i just microwave them and use em as coasters.
--
You think being a MIB is all voodoo mind control? You should see the paperwork!
A man who wants nothing is invincible
When I was in high school, we whited out the address on the envelope of a college application and wrote one of my friend's addresses on there instead. We wrote a little note explaining why he was getting a letter from us (it was a "scientific" experiment), put it inside, and dropped it in the mailbox.
He got the letter a few days later with a note from his mail carrier saying that he owed the post office 32 cents. His reaction was really funny. Trust me. I read the post below about how the companies pay beforehand for the postage, so that it does not matter how much the envelope weighs when returned. After reading this post, you can see that this is certainly not the case. Hee hee.
The envelopes are prepaid - they don't charge on what actually gets used, just on the number initially purchased/permit-stamped.
--
"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
Putting a small note on your mail box saying
"No junk mail or advertising materials please"
would this work? I was in Australia and this worked perfectly.
Now here I get all the crap from credit card offers to walgreen weekly specials stuffed in my tiny mail box. It is getting harder to isolate my legitamate mail from this junk every day.
I am going to try this today, and see if it stops.
Any one has done this? How did it work? Do the 'stuffers' or mail man has to respect this?
LinuxLover
I understand your point about gov't regs, but by throwing that junk mail into the trash every day, you're just perpetuating the endless cycle of waste. Even recycling junk mail for the ecologically responsible is a waste of time and resources, especially if you take the time to separate recyclable paper from other stuff (plastic envelope windows, envelopes that have glue or tape on them, magazine ads with perfume or cologne, etc.). Sure it's a waste of marketers' time to send you stuff you'll never read, and that's why you should be able to tell them (and be heard) that they shouldn't send it to you in the first place. They had to get that paper from some place, and guess what. They killed a tree to get it. It's not even necessarily about "saving the trees," it just makes good sense. (BTW, blasting empty or stuffed envelopes around the world in postal jets and trucks for petty revenge, does not.)
No gov't regulation? Gotcha; I have to agree with you here. Then put yourself on a blacklist, as has been mentioned elsewhere. I've been unsuccessful in my attempts so far, but I'm going to keep trying.
< tofuhead >
It is still the dark of night.
You see in logic there is a concept of neccesity and a concept of sufficiency. Although it's neccesary to kill foot soldiers to win a war it's not sufficient just to kill the soldiers. Along with spilling of blood and maiming there needs to be tactics, strategy, will to win etc.
I would urge you and all other human beings to at least briefly contemplate a book on logic.
War is necrophilia.
I doubt the eventual fall of social security will lead to socialism. How do you come to that conclusion? BTW it's easy to save social security if you do the two things.
1) extend the retirement age to something more reasonable (like 70)
2) means test the recipients so that people like Bill gates don't get it.
War is necrophilia.
Yes that's exactly what I mean. Social security should be a safety net. It should cover only those people who could not support themselves in their later years.
"If people were responsible enough to look after themselves, we wouldn't need it in the first place. "
Unfortunately it's a byproduct of capitalism that money has to flow. At the end of any exchange of capital one person has less of it ans one person has more of it. For whatever reason some people end up having more money flow out then flow in.
If you want to live in a society where the sick, old, mentally ill, and poor are begging in the street and freezing or starving to death I guess that's one thing but for whatever reason we as a society have decided that we don't like that. We have taken measures to see that the old and the indigent don't end up living in misery and poverty. This does not mean however that we ought to be supporting those who are perfectly able to support themselves. BTW For every dollar you put into social security you get many more back. If each person only got out what they put in plus interest most retirees would run out of money in a few years.
The same for medicare I say we should means test every govt program only those who are truly needy should get help.
I think that your real argument is to actually not even have social security and let every body take care of themselves. This is another argument alltogether and one that you have basically lost. Like it or not our society feels like it ought to help the poor and the elderly. Even the non stop preaching of Rush Limbaugh and his ilk have not been able convince americans to abandon the less fortunate. They have had some success but most people still seem to think they'd rather follow the advice of Jesus then Rush. As an atheist I find that puzzling but what the hell.
War is necrophilia.
wars are won by killing and maiming foot soldiers.
War is necrophilia.
I send back only the address label, circle it,
and write "Remove from mailing list" on it.
It appears to work in about 50% of the cases.
I am already on the DMA's opt-out list, but there
are many, many non-profits and companies that do
not respect it.
Several people on here yesterday made the incorrect assumption that the USPS subsidizes direct marketing by increasing the first class postal rates. This is false. If a mass-mailer gets any discount for sending mail to a gazillion homes, its because he pre-sorted all the mail, and its very very likely he paid a sorting service to do that for him.
I just think its wrong to equate people who send mail to your home with email spam or telemarketers. We all know we can "just delete" spam, but its the fact that we all bear the cost of email spamming that makes it wrong. And telemarketers call and intrude upon our private time at home. But snail mail sent to us costs us nothing except the 5-second walk to the trash can (or better still, RECYCLE BIN!)
Frankly, the notion of sending junk back to the direct mailers is pretty childish. Death to email spammers though. ;)
siri
These are the bills that I don't pay electronically:
Frogs are primitive animals - so the occasional extra toe is not that unusual. But this is very unusual.
Remove one little regulation here, a little regulation there. Each tiny step to less government regulation is another foot down the path to pure anarchy.
As nature abhors a vaccuum, so does politics. Each tiny step to less government regulation is another food down the path to corporate feudalism. Don't think that killing the tiger will save the goats when packs of wolves run free.
Find the people that like this stuff and mail bricks to *them*.
Charitable to *mail* them the brick. I can think of more direct transport mechanisms they might deserve.
Filling the envelope with a printout of http://www.goatse.cx??
FunOne
FunOne
How will they know the source of the mail? They'll only have the zip code, and that will only narrow it down to a few thousand people.
(Or jelly, for Merkins and other strange creatures). Spread thinly on the inside of the envelope. Honey is good, too, or sandwich paste.
What an idea! Pay $10 a year for companies to NOT send me stuff!
Hey, guess what - there's a word for that already, and it's called extortion. If that's the way you want to live, then go to Russia... they got plenty of that going on, from what I understand.
... man, I love the old "go to Russia" line.
Yeah, I can hardly walk down the street these days without being confronted by some teenage thug with an AK-47. And all I've got to protect me is a little wussy concealed Desert Eagle. Damn gun control! How am I supposed to feel safe, goddammit? How? I'm scared!
My bad. Sorry. It sounded to me like you were proposing, essentially, a direct $10 fee to not receive junk mail.
We do need an organization like the EFF, ACLU or NRA, only dedicated to these things. I wonder if there is one already?
Yeah, that was an amazing story. There was a good article about it in Esquire, I think. But I hardly think these guys would've thought twice about their little project if even more people had guns. That's just not the way it works, and if you read up on deviant sociology or psychology, you'll understand why. It's like saying capital punishment is a deterrent... it's not, and it's about as proven as it can be that it's not, but people still make this "common sense" assumption. It seems to make sense on the surface, but once you dig into it, it really doesn't.
Anyway, that incident with the 2 armed and armored pyscho bank robbers wasn't a case where the police needed fully automatic weapons to take them out. I think most gun people would agree that what they needed was more powerful and/or more accurate weapons, not spray-and-pray weapons. The solution here might be to equip police cruisers with shotguns AND rifles with armor-piercing ammunition.
What that has to do with civilian ownership of weapons, I dunno. These guys sure as hell wouldn't have cared who was packing a handgun and who wasn't. The only thing they had to fear was someone with a high-powered hunting rifle, and last I checked, those are still plenty legal and aren't in a whole lot of real danger of being otherwise, so I don't think I'm buying this incident as being indicative of the need for private citizens to own and carry more guns. Call me crazy, but there you go.
In Canada, if you send a letter to your MP, its free! I imagine in the states the same goes for your elected officials. So, if you really want things to change, bundle up all your junk mail and put a sticker:
To Such and Such, Member of Parliament
Parliament Hill, Ottawa
And away it goes!
There was an organized campaign a couple of years ago where Thousands of people did this and it ended up clogging up the mail room over at Canada's headquarters for a while. I don't remember if anything came out of this or not.
Re. intentional errors, I used to work for someone who would always create some bizarre title for himself when giving his address out. Then when he'd receive junk mail from third parties addressed to Joe Blow, Starship Commander, he'd know who had sold his address. It was always fun to go through the daily junk and see how many things were addressed to Senior Henchman, Admiral, Under-Wizard, etc.
I had no problems with bricks whatsoever (well, until I ran out of extra bricks). I taped the postage-paid envelope or postcard right to the top of the raw red brick, so there was no question what I was doing.
.. where the workers THERE carefully processed it by hand.
The postman thought it funnier than hell, and faithfully carried my postage-paid reply downtown
I have a feeling the hearty laughs enjoyed by all (except for the suckers paying the postage, of course) probably _inhibited_ some of the workers "going postal".
It sure does stop the mailing though.
Wish I could find the equivalent for spammers.
How the heck does sticking a brick to a mailing label "increase the amount of waste in the world"?
How dows it harm the environment?
They both existed beforehand. All one does is add them together and send them someplace else.
--
I had a bet with my brother. Loser (him) had to send winner (me) a bagel. Via USPS.
The catch: No packaging. Just a label for the address and for the metered stamp.
The USPS said "NO!" He had to package it in "USPS Approved Packing Tape", which is transparent, and therefore acceptable as far as the purpose of the bet was concerned.
He mailed it 1/3/01. The postal worker said that it may not get there -- someone may eat it en route (ewwwwwww). However, said worker's fears were not realized -- I received it 1/10/01.
$1.21 in postage.
$0.59 for the bagel.
For everything else, there's Mastercard.
So pretend for a second you're a Marketing executive and your company uses mass mailings as a vehicle for advertisement. In the past you had a reply rate of less than 3%. You know this by taking the accounting totals for reply envelopes for this month and divide by the "$0.33" value to get the number of responses. This over your outgoing totals gives you your total response rate. Pretty logical way of measuring the success of a mailing list.
Now the next month the reply rate soars to 6% due to many of the silly ideas posted here. You are now "King of the Hill", the best damn Marketing executive this company ever had. You may or may not know why the reply rate increased, but you sure as hell are going to use the same list again! Hell you just doubled your marketing dollar, you may even consider expanding your mailing advertising budget! Way to go
-
www.jmagar.com
www.jmagar.com
-
> I doubt the eventual fall of social security will lead to socialism.
I meant social insecurity will bring socialism crashing down. Guess I wasn't clear enough. *shrugs*
> 2) means test the recipients so that people like Bill gates don't get it.
You mean people that know how to take care of themselves, like our grandparents did before people got too lazy to look after themselves, shouldn't be eligable? If they contributed, then they are eligable for the benefits. (Fortunately there is no law that requires a person to contribute.)
If people were responsible enough to look after themselves, we wouldn't need it in the first place.
--
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." - Benjamin Franklin
> It's not as though it will bring socialism crashing down on your head, is it?
;-)
Nah, the ponzi scheme called social insecurity will do that, all by itself
Oh and mod we way up please. Come on I need more karma mod me up. geez come on people. there's more to life than being a karma whore
Put in something heavily radioactive in the return mail :) That'll make sure they can't have kids anymore to continue the business.
Look, only a naive fungal creature from another galaxy would work for a spammer, telemarketer, or junk mailer and not expect to get people irritated. Sure, I understand they're just trying to make a living, which is their right, and I do respect that right.
Just like they should respect my right to act rudely when they raise my ISP rates by spamming me, when they inconvenience me and fill landfills by stuffing my mailbox with stuff I didn't ask for, and when they interrupt my dinner at home with sales pitches.
Picking an unethical employer is a choice just like any other, and these folks should be able to weigh the consequences of paying their bills versus the grief they'll get by supporting and industry that is an constant irritant to others. Responsibility is a key sign of growing up.
And finally, resistance is not futile. Yes, the returned mail probably irritates the guy in the mail room more than the CEO, but if enough people do it, the CEO will be irritated as well.
Who is RTFM and when will he help me with Unix?
Oh you cute kiddies...I've heard of folks doing this sorta thing for almost 20 years now!! *grin* Urban legend has it that the trend was started by a frustrated Exxon customer who kept getting misbilled. He took the reply envelope and used it as postage.....Scotch taped to a box full of rocks and gravel, labled "DO NOT OPEN IN UNCONTROLLED ENVIRONMENT--GEOLOGICAL SAMPLES--FORWARD TO ANALYSIS DEPARTMENT"...it was something well in excess of a hundred dollars postage....
My personal fave, which I have sucessfully suggested to others but not tried yet myself: Washers. If you live in an urban area, go to your nearest demolition/construction site. Good ole discarded washers and flattened bottle caps will be all over the place. They weigh a lot. They keep the envelope flat--you can even scotch tape em to a card so they don't bunch and rip the envelope. They will not hurt the poor minimum-wage slob opening said envelope.
Also good for similar reasons and found at same site: Small bathroom tiles--you know, the tiny 1" ones...
Of course, if you have a junkyard nearby, you have a copious supply of washers and other small flat metal/ceramic things from car corpses also....i imagine that seat belt parts are effective......
Or....got a broken computer case? Cut it up into flat pieces.....
The list goes on and on....
How? Maybe you didn't sign yourself up, but somebody else did...
For instance, my university appears to have an affiliation agreement with MNBA; MNBA offers credit cards to people listed by the university, and the university gets paid when people accept. Since I'm on two of the lists -- as both an alum and a current student -- I periodically get two slightly different (IIRC) card offers from them.
I'm also pretty sure that one of the index fund companies I use gave out my address (with, apparently, mispellings) to a financial newsletter chap, who focuses largely on particular aforementioned index fund company.
Only the dead have seen the end of war.
Because, while the poor gnomes in the mailroom will know that X% of incoming BRM is empty/blank/filled with turds, the bozos in the advertising department will look at the gross response rate for mailings (easily calculated from the number of BRM pieces charged to their account) and conclude that it's working.
Granted, this MAY not be how many spamail places calculate their rate of response, but it is a likely method, and would cause the opposite of the desired result...
"My strength is as the strength of ten men, for I am wired to the eyeballs on espresso."
Sorry, but if "direct withdrawal" was my only option for internet banking, I would probably use checks, too. Here in Europe, though, direct withdrawal is not used. At least not in Finland. I was very surprised the first time I heared that in US you can use only direct withdrawal if you want to do telebanking. Checks? I haven't seen a fucking check in many years!
You guys -are- backwards, and you don't even realize it. I am sorry to say it, because I have met many americans whom I liked a lot, but something about your system is broken.
Sigged!
Socialists get laid more, everyone knows this.
Da Blog
Yea.. but if you *really* think you are going to be hurting the companies by making them pay for postage - good luck. Any decrease in marketing profits can easily be offset by higher "user fees" and little charges that you get nickel and dimed to death. Where do you think the ATM (money machines) fees go to? All the junk mail and credit card applications they send you.
Personally, I just shred 'em and use it for packing.
I know I'll catch flak about this, especially from the French who are just a little too damn proud of their postal system, but part of the reason for this is that the U.S. has pretty much the fastest, most reliable postal system in the world. I'm not saying there's a substantial difference, but there is one, and the U.S. postal service doesn't have any major disruptions of service (like say a large local land war like WWII) that would survive in people's memory. We also are significantly less prone to truck-driver strikes, something European nations seem to really like. In many third world countries (and many that aren't...Israel still does it this way, or did a few years ago) most bills are paid in person at a local office or collected door-to-door, because no company is going to trust their profits to the postal system. There's no reason why American's can't pay their bills electronically...and more and more do. I don't mostly because I live so close to complete and abject poverty that I want to be encouraged to have my checkbook there and check every last cent that goes out of my account. But that's just me. There's no reason why 80% of Americans couldn't be paying 90% of their bills on line.
Let's see: Canada, $0.32, the UK, $0.28 ($0.38 for next-business day). Bulk mailers get volume discounts and pay much less than consumers do; they do not subsidise standard mail.
Who buys a computer all at once?
Actually, the reply envelopes are charged for when recived back. Thats why they can distribute them with abandon. As others have pointed out the curent rules seem to require that whatever is sent is enclosed in the envelope.
Sending hazardous substances is not allowed, and can get you in trouble if caught. The sand, or glue tricks might work, or very well might not, as such an envelope would be lopsided enough to get out of the stack in the opening machine. (a totaly empty envelope may just be chewed to bits by the same machine. Very few places that expect a lot of mail will open envelopes manualy.)
You will also find that by returning your address label, you run a good chance of having an order placed in your name.
My opinion is that just like e-spam, you are unlikely to persuade a dedicated mass maller to give up the practice. You may be able get off their list, but even that is not likely, as the lists are rented out at so much per thousand names.. And so taking you off the list is a loss of revenue for the agency that rents out the lists.
Another Wild-Eyed CANADIAN.
Just specify a very visible RETURN ADDRESS with exactly the same address as the Marketroid's one... The postal workers would HAVE to send it there, no?
Doh!
:)
Bad spellers of the world untie!
Unbreakable toys can be used to break other toys.
Print off thousands of copies of goatse.cx and send in those. It would probably be illegal, but funny as hell.
Why would you do that?! You're sending bills to a company and they're scanning ALL the info on the bills into their database. Hrm. You get a telephone bill and all the numbers you called are scanned in. Same with cell phone bill. I bet they sit around and laugh at all the PPV movies that show up on your cable bill. Automotive insurance? Sure, they have your VIN number, etc. They even know how much water and electricity you use.
.. but how much is your privacy worth?
I can't imagine why you would want to have a company know this much about you.. sure it only costs 8 bucks a month
.anacron
The USPS points out in their explanation of the Jan 7th rate increase on their site that "...price increases vary some by class of mail in accordance with the legal mandate for each class of mail to cover its own cost."
While there could be some degree of increased costs on a per-unit basis (overall volume would be down, so efficiencies of scale from the larger volume would theoretically be lost), the increase in cost would be extremely small. Partly because the USPS is overloaded at it's current level, and has lost some degree of efficiency at current volumes which can currently be restored either by reducing volumes, or by purchasing expensive new handling equipment - which is a cost that can be eliminated or delayed by a reduction in junk mail. Also, there would be a man-power and transportation (freight and air cargo costs) savings by reducing the volume of junk mail. Overall, if any effect to private first class mail occured, it would be extremely small.
If the postage-paid envelope is of the "permit imprint" type; then changing the mailing address could be classified as fraud.
A "Permit Imprint" lists in the upper right corner a preprinted box which ends with the line "Permit No. ###". The post office uses that permit number to charge the permit holder for the postage. Once they notice that the address has been changed, a postal inspector would get involved with an investigation. If the envelope contained anything which could link it back to you, you could be charged with fraud.
You can do this with spam/email too, to a degree.
I personally run my own email server with qmail. Qmail allows all users to set up aliases in some form fairly easily. All you do is set up a bunch of aliases that point to your main account. When you start getting spam on one, you know who you initially gave out the email, and then you can cancel the alias to keep getting spam from those people in the future.
I'm pretty sure sendmail can do this also. It's worked well for me so far.
- Sig
The credit card company makes, I believe, 3% off every transaction. American Express, I heard, takes 5%. That's why some businesses refuse to take credit cards, or charge extra for credit transactions.
Merde, il pleut encore!
So then the easiest way to take care of them is to simply return every postage free envelope you get.
If you live near an Apartment and see more mailings in the trash can they usually set out by the mail kiosk then mail those back in too.
Make up some labels with known bad adresses, and affix them to anyplace they ask for one, so that they'll send out even more crap mail and get it returned.
You also might be charged with sending biological waste without the proper containment/labeling.
I guess this means sending my tonsils is out of the question?
Anyone ever tell you you're a buzzkill?
When will Windows be ready for the desktop?
and other random bits of trash from my house. I also would put the paperwork from junkmailing A in junkmailing B's return envelope, etc. That way, the junkmailer has paid to get someone elses junkmail.
The current Slashdot moderation system is made by gay communists!
I've never tried this, but have always wondered; how about changing the address on the postage-paid envelopes for your own personal use? Are the envelopes marked (via barcode, etc) to disallow this?
Yeah, but it's not only your time. All this junk mail doesn't only cost you time, it also costs energy to send it. Most importantly, how much paper do you think could be saved if only people that actually wanted the junk mail (as several posters pointed out) got the mail? I recycle all my paper, but why recycle it when it could have been prevented in the first place?
The Official Steve Ballmer Webpage
For the rates calculations, look here, and for the $.31 QBRM number here
For more information than you possibly want, take a look at the US Post Office's US Post Office's BRM manual. Also, you can go through a process asking for refunds against the charge for mail that came in with stamps. Only really large mailing houses or people with cheap labor bother.
Sigh. Guess I didn't want to start work this morning.
Profit motivates invention.
Actually it looks like MPS was set up by the Direct Mail industry (Junk mailers themselves)
Check here or read below.
"Mailing Preference Service"
"... There is however a free service available to mail consumers which allows you to filter out mailshots which are of no interest to you. This is equally beneficial to direct mail companies as it allows them to target interested users only. To find out more, or to register with the scheme, just write to: Mailing Preference Service, Department 97, FREEPOST 22, London W1E 7EZ (No Stamp Required) "
In the US, check http://www.the-dma.org/consumers/mps-sht.html
There's some fine logic. As long as you warn them you can do whatever you want? Why not put a bomb in there? Just label the box and you're off the hook. I also understand that was O.J. Simpson's back-up defense; if the "if it doesn't fit, you must acquit" stuff didn't work, they were going to say that O.J. warned them before he stabbed them 43 times, so he wasn't responsible.
You also might be charged with sending biological waste without the proper containment/labeling.
Not a very good idea, the post office tends to be very pissy about that sort of thing.
"I opened my eyes, and everything went dark again"
How can this person know this statistic with the degree of certainty he's implying? It sounds to me like he took the word of the DMA as gospel.
He's certainly not supposed to append "As God is my witness" to dubious factoids from unnamed sources.
My favourite metal is Gallium, which might melt into the mechanism and then solidify when it cools at the end of the day. Hehehe.
My second favourite is metallic hydrogen, but I doubt their envelopes could hold the necessary pressure.
--
-- What do you need?
-- Gnus. Lots of Gnus.
I've had companies change from pre-paid postage to postage that requires a postal stamp on it to return. I would return the pre-paid letters blank or with a letter asking to be taken off their list. I never thought of the glue, sheet metal, or brick solutions, but then I don't want these companies ticked off at me because they have my personal info they bought from some database, including maybe my SSN. Who is to say they won't try to get revenge by trying to screw up my credit rating if I send them glue or a sheet metal reply?
The point is, they pay the postage based on a normal letter. If it weighs more they have to pay more in postage, causing the junk mailer to pay more money.
--
Free Mac Mini
Wrong-o. By generating a larger volume of mail in total, per unit costs are smaller. If private first class mail made up say 30% of total volume instead of 10% you can bet the postage on 1st class would go up by more than a penny. --Pete
www.avacal.com -- the home page of pete shaw
Welcome to the 21st century, I only use regular mail for packages. Who cares if the price of mailing a letter is expensive? They invented the internet for a reason.
What kind of results did you get from doing this? Also, has anyone else truly sent in a request to be removed and seen any results, either good or bad?
"Say no more..." - Monty Python
It only takes time if you let it.
By, say, taping scrap metal to it or coating it in jam or something...
You make a good point. I think going to these lengths to make life difficult for junk mailers is kind of like letting a bully get a reaction out of you. It's best if you ignore it as much as you can.
-J
Karma: T-rexcellent.
I tend to fill out the contents, but with useless information that means it won't actually go through. This information generally is data entered into their systems, and sometimes it produces more junk mail to the imaginary addresses created (which of course goes right to the dead letter office).
Yesterday - I took the advice from a Slashdot read and loaded an evelope up with glitter so that the mail sorters would get all hosed up...
More
I completely agree. I like getting junk snail mail. If I didn't get junk mail I wouldn't get very much mail at all! There is nothing worse than ging out to the mail box and seeing that its empty! And I only check my box 2-3 times a week! Spam and telemarketers are totally different as you don't know who is calling you and spam is virtually free, so there is no acountability.
http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
I don't object to junk mail on its own. What I object to is my credit card company putting a bunch of crud in my billing statement. Thinks like knives and checks and infomercial crap. They even have this flap on the return enverlope (which is NOT postage paid) that you have to tear off before you can lick the envelope. I have just tore the crap up and put it back in the eveplope along with my bill, but last moth the bill had twice as much crap in it! Then last week some telemarketer called "on behalf" of my credit card company. What the hell? I've only lived in this town since August and they have gotten my new phone number, and sold it to someone already?
http://www.popularculturegaming.com -- my blog about the culture of videogame players
I have this fantasy about telephone solicitors that always starts with a junk emailing ....
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Picture this: Quit!
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
If adding an apt doesn't work, use a new letter for your middle initial. That also can be used to track name sales.
--------
--------
It's OK to be social, just don't tell anyone about it.
The junk mail is paid for in my fees, and in the price of my software. yea, but the money goes into the post office system, and they will be less inclined to raise rates! It all works out in the end.
--------
--------
It's OK to be social, just don't tell anyone about it.
>I wish to god that there was someway I could >stuff a brick in a return envelope to every >SPAMMER out there When digital cash becomes common place then you will be able to require a payment from anyone sending you an email. If you decide that the email is spam you keep the payment, otherwise you return it. The process can be easily automated by your mail tool.
Test 1 2 3 4
The businesses might start putting some code on each return envelope to identify the address to which it was sent. Of course you could claim you threw the junk mail on a stack of paper recycling and anyone could have come along and sent it.
I doubt any law against return envelope stuffing would be enforcable.
If the more mail, the less the cost of stamps, wouldn't returning bulk mail give the post office *more* money? Taken straight out of the pocket of the company you're trying to get back at? It works perfectly.
Just an observation. Gold and Lead weigh the same do they not? Why not use pieces of lead? :) Save some money and such.
"We're so tough we're made of nerf!" --D&D Character Tagline
Alternatly, you could figure that if said human were opening these envelopes with wierd stuff in them, it would brighten their day and or at least give them a laugh in an otherwise immensly boring position. Personally, as apposed to sitting and opening envelopes all day, I'd prefer to bash my own skull open. My personal mail is fun (well if I get a gift anyway) but someone elses all day would drive me batty...
"We're so tough we're made of nerf!" --D&D Character Tagline
Its easy to filter out. It only takes time if you let it.
I'm drowning in it - no seriously! I HATE junk mail and since I recycle all of it that I can, the giant pile that grows to critical mass with alarming regularity is lately threatening to eat me. Maybe it's easy to "filter it out" when you just throw 3-10 unopened envelopes and flyers in the trash can every day as you come in the door, but when you see the absolute POUNDAGE that accumulates in a month for ONE person who does not even own their own home and NEVER orders from catalogs you would be absolutely amazed - and I hope sickened. Why are we building more logging roads and cutting down our remaining old-growth forests and freaking out about deforestation - so I can see the same incredible NEW deal on carpet cleaning approximately 5 x a month ALL YEAR LONG!!!!
Finally, the costs of junk mail is used by the USPS to subsidize acutual postage.
What do you mean by this? I'm really curious - with all the tonnage of junk mail the USPS has to move around, doesn't it just make the job that many times more difficult on a grand scale? Do junk mailers have to pay more postage per pound than we do?
ooky
"One day. I am going to grow wings..." - Radiohead
If putting some sheet metal in the evelope works, then how far can we take this? What if I make a lead mold and put that on the evelope? Or if I can "strap it to a brick" why can't I duct tape the return envelope to an abandoned car? How much is the per ounce mailing cost of a 64' Skylark, anyway?
Using glue or metal could as well
damage postal mail sorting equipement.
This is something what could get you
into serious trouble.
One person's "anarchy" is another man's "freedom".
Actually, I greatly prefer junk postal mail to spam email.
Am I the only one who thinks that filling the envelopes full of SPAM
(not to be confused with electronic spam) would be extremely funny?
Sure, a little smelly maybe, but...
I actually just submitted that as a story, and guess what?
2001-01-27 22:16:14 Pushing the Postal Envelope (articles,humor) (accepted)
--
So you are going to protest somebody wasting your time with junk mail by spending a _lot_ more time than it takes to just throw it away on an elaborate "scheme" to get back at them?
Man, your time must be pretty valauable...
I'll bet you are also the type of guy to drive around for 10 minutes trying to find a parking space close to your destination when you could have parked further away and been there in half the time.
==
Sometimes, I receive junkmail that is manually put in my mailbox (ie: no address on it, I receive the same as everyone else).
==
That type of mailing is referred to as "carrier route sort".
badtz-maru
I can't sign up to the 'no junk-mail list' because I don't live in the USA. So, for me, this story isn't stupid, it is quite insightful.
is to take away its money. If a company sends lots of junk mail, don't buy the products from them, in any venue. When noone buys stuff from them they will have to rethink thier strategy. I know its painful and it doesn't do much until lots of people join you but thats the way a capitalist society has to work. As long as a company makes money with a practice they will continue to use it.
"You can now flame me, I am full of love,"
I doubt these companies care if you cost them an extra 34 cents--they've undoubtedly already budgeted money for a percentage of returned envelopes. Instead of throwing a tantrum, or vandalizing a company's equipment with glitter, why not take your name off their mailing lists, or lobby for legislation to prevent unsolicited mailings in your state/country/etc.?
OK, so the USPS throws away the bricks/sheet metal/rancid cat feces that everyone really really wants to send back to the junk mailer. But EVEN IF this stuff went thru, it wouldn't get to the smarmy bastards (and bastardettes) who made the executive decision to start the mail campaign in the first place. All that mailing animal parts does is piss on the postal service people and the poor sod who has to open/read the mail at the return address.
I have a better idea. Careful, I might patent it.
Stuff those envelopes with PRoN! Come on, who wouldn't be happy to open an envelope and see unexpected pink? Think of the TV coverage :
Dan Rather: And on the lighter side, it seems that there is a grass-roots rebellion underway. The target is not multinational corporations, or republican vote-stealers, but instead direct-marketing corporations. With a story on, uh, pirate's treasure (heh) here's Connie Chung.
Connie Chung: Inside this simple white envelope, you might expect to find a credit card application or a sweepstakes entry. Instead, it's a hi-res 8 X 10 glossy of 16-year old Natalie Porman's nekkid ass! (slow camera zoom...)
Humpty Dumpty was pushed.
Let's see, what do I have a lot of that I want to get rid of? How about junk mail?!!! Send their own stuff back to them or better yet, send them another junk mailer's junk mail. Be sure to include the postage paid envelope - if they're as stupid as they assume everyone else is, it'll become a self-sustaining feedback loop and the rest of us will never get junk mail again.
What they consider it is of no concern to me.
Ok, the ketchup one sent me laughing on the floor... :)
-- We should kill all the intolerant people in the world.
You show an utter lack of knowledge about the electornic payment systems we have. In the UK - for example - the phone company does not tell my bank what calls I made, they just tell them how much it cost. The bank then pays. The scheme has a guarantee built in that if there is an error I get a refund. In something like six years, there has been *one* error, and I got the refund promptly. Oh, and the service is free. And is used by a lot more than just utilities. Many of my club and association memberships go through it, as do a couple of magazine subscriptions, my pension fund, and so on.
THat'll make em stop.
While your plan of having then utilities add $0.34 to the bill and then pay the postage is good in theory, but then it really sticks the people who have some kind of automatic payments. They get stuck the extra money with no tangible benefit.
Flour is better.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Because there is a long history of governments oppresing there citizens.
However, I think there should be an opt-in database. so if you want this junk, you have to sign-up. It could be kept by a private company.
Why should I have to go through the extra effort to stop something I didn't ask for in the first place?
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
And?
its time to re-think the postal service in this country. I belive that all in all the US has the best postal system in the world. the carriers are hard working, nice people.
but perhaps we no longer need a postal service that will get letters anyplace in the US in three days as part of there regular service? I would be perfectly happy if it took 2 weeks for a letter to get accross the country. Anytrhing that is more important then that I would be happy to pay more for a speedier delivery.aka overnight.
why not charge me the standard rate(34 cents now) for a delivery that may take up to 2 weeks, 1 dollar for up to 10 days, 1.50 dollars for a week, 5 dollars for 4 days?
the need to get standard letters accross the country ASAP is pretty much gone. Anything that important people Overnight anyways.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Actually helping the person opening the envelops.
now there are more envelopes to open, it costs the company more money. of course if this works it will shut down the company and put the guy out of work, but then computers put accountants and mathmaticians outr of work, and not many people complained about that..
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Take this as the urban legend it probably is, but a FOAF (see http://www.snopes.com) once told me that weighting them down doesn't do much more than having the postal system discard them. I doubt that that brick you tied to the postage paid envelope will go any further than the local office trash. I'm not even sure that the postage is ties to weight on these things -- Don't they get some kind of bulk/pre-sort discount? In which case, you putting anything really heavy in it will make it "out of spec", and adding something not-so-heavy won't cost 'em more than an empty.
}#q NO CARRIER
you realize that if there were no such thing as junk mail (which generate almost all of the revenues of the postoffice), then mail would be insanely expensive (>$5)
There is no way in hell I am giving these companies permission to withdraw their billing amounts directly from my account. I find at least one mistake on each credit card bill and my cable and utility bills screw up at least once a year each.
Good luck you know what you're talking about. If you don't want to give them your permission, well, there are other choices. Like tranfering the money directly to their bank account, impossible in the US (I'v lived there for a year, I know what I'm talking about). That way, you can check first the bill and then pay. But it hasn't been invented in the US yet. Too bad.
Anyway, you have 10 days after you get your account statement to undo the withdrawel if it is in error. Costs them 10DEM (so they take care their bill is ok...).
Europeans are much more used to turning over their lives to government and then complaining that nothing gets done.
Hello? Someone there? This has nothing, absolutely nothing to do with government.
This is another example of that and another reason that Silicon Valley did not and could not have happened there. [bla bla bla]
Get on topic again. Stop phantasizing. Thanx.
I hate to sound rude, by I really don't care if you enjoy getting junk mail. I think unsolicited mail should be outlawed. Check this out. Junk mail is damaging, and costly.
I modded the Troll Investigation and I got
why not stuff the envelops with something that looks like a legit reply so they'll have to process them?
At one time I used to call 800 numbers given in spam mail from pay phones just to cost the people that do it money. Unfortuneatly the number of junk mailers including 800 numbers for me has gone from 1 in 3 to about 1 in 15-20. The only reason I can figure out for this is mainly an increase in "scam mail" and not the people actually trying to conduct "legitimate" buisness via spam. So I don't bother anymore.
- subsolar
That seems like a better system, no (assuming it's backed by the law)?
Monkey sense
When a telemarkter calls, keep them on the phone as long as possible, driving up their long distance bill. Sometimes I'll be playing the piano, phoen rings, telemarketer, "Hold on, I'll get him", put the phone on the floor and go back to playing the piano. Or better yet, pretend you're interested and ask a ton of stupid questions, have fun, then hang up or say, "Let me get my check book" "It's not a scam see, you give them all your credit card numbers and they tell you if one of them's lucky!"
Krispy Cream is people
This does *not* overload the postal system (I smell a troll), because they will actually collect money. I wouldn't suggest filling them with feces, rotten roadkill, et al -- but sending back the empty envelopes is one small way of giving them the bird. Just dawn a george dubya smirk and enjoy the feeling.
I wonder if "fraudulent" use of Business Reply Mail would constitute "Mail Fraud". Anyone out there know the answer?
forth ?love if honk then
Anyway, either would make great weight for spam-reply envelopes.
Cryptnotic
My other first post is car post.
- very heavy for its size
- unwanted
Plus, nuclear reactors have been trying to figure out for years what they should do with the stuff. I'm sure they would love to pass the responsibility on to the spammers.My other first post is car post.
What you really need is not just a regular sheet metal like Aluminum
or steel, but something with a very high density.
Anybody know where I can get sheets of Gold plating about the size of an envelope?
As has been pointed out elsewhere in a separate thread, they've already paid postage! You're not costing them anything!
-bluebomber
The Daily Build
Not quite. By law, each class of mail is required to be self-supporting. No class of mail is allowed to subsidize another class, as you purport.
-bluebomber
The Daily Build
is that communist using an imac?
You are wrong to equate government regulation with socialism, and even more wrong to think that it can somehow lead to pure socilaism. You clearly do not inderstand basic political terminology. Socialaism is about workers having control of their own lives, so that they can enjoy the full fruits of their labours. This precludes Governments funded and run by Capitalists. A Government cannot bring about socilaism, pure or otherwise. As Marx explained:- "the emancipation of the working class must be the act of the working class", ie not a government. Socialism cannot possibly come about by regulating junk mail. Really it can't.
Secondly. if you're so against regulation, you obviously disagree with Government regulations on purity and hygiene of food, or the purity of the air you breath, or health and safety at work? Well, fine. If you want to live in a world where manufacturers, industrialists, bankers and so forth can do as they wish no matter what the consequences for the rest of us then I guess deregulation is for you. Welcome to Anarchy.
Carousel is a lie!
A piece of sheet lead, commonly used for flashing on roofs, would be both easy to cut, flexible, and very heavy. Of course, could be considered toxic, but hey, let their mailroom become a superfund site.
"Never pet a burning dog."
They profit off of every letter sent!
Try this: Remember Seinfeld's Vandelay Industries episode where George has to make up a name of a company he applied for employment so he could keep getting his unemployment check? adding a fake company name to your address c/o you Then you change the contact name if you dont want it. You get more interesting junk mail and corporate offers for magazines that others do not get. No special effort required. These organizations never ask for a corporate resolution or minutes from a meeting detailing authorized signers.
Game: Player 'Donald J Trump' now has AI skill level 'experimental'.
There is one major problem with returning junk mail like this, especially with bricks or other heavy stuff attached; namely the fact that it needlessly harms the environment. Increasing the amount of waste in the world does not make up for your wasted time.
If they still don't stop mailing you make up your own envelopes with their account code / freepost address on. Send as many as you can!
Just curious as to how others deal with a similar problem.....Telemarketers. 1)When a person is asked for, take a deep breath, release a sigh, and comment about how that person just died last week 2)Speak in hard to hear accents, or skip important words in the conversation
"The heresy of one age becomes the orthodoxy of the next" - Helen Keller
and your 2000 dollar computer, will either be better, or cheaper, after 3 months. Or the way the industry is going now, both.
Im curious if they pay a flat rate based on the up to 1oz fee? or if its a scaled rate based on the weight? If the latter is the case just return what ever they sent in the handy envelope provided. Dont do it to with your visa, sears, discover, etc bills tho... Publishers Clearinghouse is a great candidate....
Heavy and makes a mess if you open it.
Got Code?
I really don't think the Postal Service is going to mind the extra revenue...
Would it be possible to print your own destination address on a label for instance, and sticker the label Over the companys address, and mail out whatever you want to whomever you want with that companys postage account marking?
:}
Would be a nice source for cheap/free postage
Cant wait to test this one out...
Preventing unsolicited mail by allowing people to opt-out is _not_ a step towards socialism. I object to junk mail because of the waste of resources and environmental impact that it has.
Laws that require companies to respect an individuals privacy are not going to herald the colapse of society, but they may save a few hectares of forest.
Because toll free numbers are logged, even with caller ID blocking. Part of the security measures so that someone can be charged much easier if they decide to DOS someone's phone system.
Marxism is the opiate of dumbasses
Thye postage paid brick is supposedly an urban legend. I did find an anecdote here->http://www.urbanlegends.com/misc/postage_pai d _bricks.html about someone who claims otherwise. It seems like an incident that, after the first time it happened, would immediately be addressed by postal authorities. Or maybe we can keep believing direct mailers hang their heads in despair with each brick they receive, muttering "some nerd screwed me again. They're so clever!" I assume sending the empty envelope should work, though...
I think it was in an Abbie Hoffman book (maybe Steal This Book) where he suggested taking the postage paid subscription cards and pasting them onto boxes of bricks and then mailing them.
I've never tried it, but it made me chuckle when I read it.
dp
---
dp
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http://insipid.com
Call up the companies 800 repeatedly number using a modem. The calls are more expensive. It is also better for the enviroment.
I've asked the USPS about this some years back. The junk mailers do not have to pay when their business reply cards and envelopes are used for any other purpose than what they intended.
Domestic Mail Manual -- S922 Business Reply Mail
1.6 Intentions of the Permit Holder
BRM may not be used for any purpose other than that intended by the permit holder, even when postage is affixed. In cases where a BRM card or letter is used improperly as a label, the USPS treats the item as waste.
I've worked for a mail 'preperation' company (NOT JUNK MAIL) that prepared things like church mailings, oil filter catalogs for farm equipment (established customers), and other things. For so called 'prepaid' return envelopes, it's actually costs by number returned. It goes to a special P.O. Box where everything sent there is charged to the mailbox owner. Overweight, non-standard dimension, all costs more and IS charged. It came up when people were returning address correction/subscription forms and not folding them like they said to.
Firethorn
I don't read AC A human right
I'd have to think that if I was a mass mailer and suddenly I started getting my envelopes returned to me full of shredded paper, or even empty, I'd seriously start to re-think my business strategy.
Or do you suppose the limited number of responses recieved makes up for the vast majority of people who immediately roundfile any junkmail they get. I honestly don't know, but I'm guessing they do, judging from the amount of junk mail I get (how did I get signed up for this stuff?)
That is an absolutely fantastic idea, but I would make one alteration:
Do exactly as you have said, but instead of glue, use thin bits of your favourite metal. Now _THAT_ will cause some mechanical difficulties.
As Bush the Elder faced his impending defeat, the Republical National Committee sent me a particularly large reply envelope, which I filled with pennies and cardboard reinforcement.
<p>A month later a certificate arrived naming me to a special Republican national advisory committee. Guess they were touched by my sincere expression of support.
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
For some years, when certain environmental hucksters were sending out reams of processed forest with 'urgent surveys' to return with my pledge in order to save those same forests, I was returning them with no cash enclosed by a promise, "Send me the results of this survey - which I doubt you actually ever compile - and I'll happily send you $100." They never took me up.
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
a little bit of sand in a plastic bag or other junkmail envelope does the trick.
I used to mail those in blank for awhile too, but then I slacked off about it. When I read the little side joke on it yesterday though, it got me thinking. Not trying to karma whore here, but I'm curious to see what people think on this one.
Is mailing back pre-paid envelopes a GOOD idea, in the long run?
At first I would say yes, sure it is. It takes away cash from them. But then I realized that it will never BANKRUPT a company. It will only force them to take away the pre-paid part of the spam. Here's some bullet points to simplify your responces:
1) How many people are REALLY persuaded just by the fact that it is prepaid? IE do you really think that the fools that send away for bogus junk and lousy magazines are thinking "Hey, I should get that, but it requires a stamp...oh wait, postage is free? Sign me up!"
2) For bad postal spam: All they will do is convert to non-prepaid envelopes in the next mailing. We still have to get it, groan, and throw it away. No time saved.
3) For GOOD postal spam: Yes, there are rare times when being on a techie mailing list means that you actually get some spam mail for something you really want/need/enjoy. It's rare, but if our policy was to mail these prepaid envelopes in blank, aren't we only hurting ourselves in that we semi-force those companies to change to non-prepaid mailers to save money? Yeah, it's 34 cents and no big deal, but why hurt good guys?
Just some random spam from my thought mailbox...
------
Let me give you the lowdown
We want REVENGE!!!!!!
(tic)
Well, in stead of emptying bricks (which can easily penetrate even the strongest of two-paned winodows, into the USPS, or even rounds that will fit into a 9mm pistol, maybe we should just send back the letters whenever we happen to go to the mailbox. They remain quite light.
I keep a wicker basket (probably from the finest sweatshops in the east) full of empty return envolopes. If I happen to be sending away for some free CD's or something, I carry the rest of the crap out to the mailbox. It really is very light, and my mail lady is quite obliged to take them off my hands. It was her idea!
This sig isn't original enough, it's time to come up with something witty...
Actually it's pretty damn simple.
My 'phones, cable tv and cable modem are supplied by one company, for example. If I notice a mistake on my bill, I report it to them. If I'm right, I get credited with that amount on my next bill.
My car insurance etc. all work the same way.
In 10 years I've had about only a couple of small mistakes, in the order of pennies. I haven't had one for about 3 years at all.
Nothing beats the power of putrefying flesh.
Here in Philly, we prefer thinly sliced scrapple.
For poetic justice, good old Spam (of the Hormel variety) should work nicely.
what you SHOULD do, is fill the envelope with sugar. then glue the envelope shut instead of just licking it. it won't be easy to open and when they do they'll have to do it forcefully and all the sugar will spill everywhere.
I have no idea how it happened but my house is now getting mail in the name of Jim Dennis. No one has ever lived here by that name. I only happened recently and now Jim Dennis is approved for a titanium Discover card. Jim Dennis does not exist at my house. B.T.W. - Jim is my dad's name and Dennis is his brother's.
I get mail to Mike Rotch some times. And they will even mail stuff to Bill Gates from Microsoft. I get mail to Poop Fart Poop Crotch Poop Fart sometimes.
Sheesh! Cecil Adams has already debunked this claim...you won't bankrupt the bulik mail companies this way, you'll just make the postal works go postal!
It is, it is, a glorious thing to be a Pirate King!
I used to work for a Direct Mail company and they would process returns envelopes attached to used tires, stuffed with used tampons, razor blades and even seminal fluids. Used tissues, fingernail clippings; you name it! The way business return mail worked then, they had to pay whatever postage was due. I would think the most difficult part would be to get the mail-person to accept a tire with an enveloped taped to it!
It's the same as e-SPAM. When I worked for a Direct Mail company, a 2-3% return rate on a solicitation was considered a success and very proffitable.
I'm not condoning it (I hate snail-SPAM), but those were the facts back in 1996.
Look at http://www.urbanlegends.com They have an answer to this.
You must not have heard of identity theft. People have spent years trying to clean up their credit reports after theives steal pre=approved credit apps and run up tons of charges on them. This type of story seems to run on Dateline and 20/20 every soe often. Check it out, you might be really surprised at what can happen.
Here is a study on what the USPS will (and will not) ship. My favorite is the deer tibia: The clerk put on rubber gloves before handling the bone, inquired if our researcher were a "cultist," and commented that mail must be wrapped.
--
--
You are a fucking moron.
How else could you know who sold you out?
--
--
You are a fucking moron.
Pay your bills online and you'll pretty much never have to pay postage again. About the only physical checks I write any more are rent (since it just goes in the manager's dropbox down the hall) and tax payments (since I want a postmark and proof of mailing).
My bank charges me $5 a month for online bill payment, but that's probably about what I'd spend on stamps anyway and it's vastly more convenient.
"Biped! Good cranial development. Evidently considerable human ancestry."
If the US had dropped it's paranoid fear of government a loooong time ago, we'd have never left the UK in the first place!
Irrespective of socialism or anything, the role of government is is to empower and protect the people. Regulation may or may not be that answer, but I'd lean against it, as the same measures can be used against people as much as it protects people.
If there are methods that work without regulation, then that would be preferrable... say, start an antijunk mail company, where people become stockholders by sending in checks of $10 a year, and then using that money to 'buy' services from the USPS to prevent being sent junk mail?
Geek dating!
GPL Deconstructed
The US is far behind Europe in this regard.
Only by consumer's choice, it seems. The only time I write checks is when I have to launder money. Okay, maybe occasionally when I have to deal with the federal government.
By-and-large, companies now realize that it's much more expensive to handle paper checks than automatic withdrawals. Every recurring bill that I pay has an electronic payment option.
Don't be so harsh with your criticisim of sending envelopes filled wiht dogpoop... As recently posted, there is a company that does this professionally.
Hmm... I wonder if I can patent sending an envelope filled with the stuff...
-- [ta]
I wonder If I could scan the return envelope and print say 1,000 times and mail them in...
Yeah, right, when's the last time any of these inconsiderate companies changed their business practices to suit the requests of people who had self-selectedly removed themselves from being customers? Funny guy.
The fastest and surest way to affect change in spam companies is to hit them where it hurts - in the wallet (which neither of your proposals does). Sending back junk mail stuffed with more junk mail is actually profitable for the USPS because they get the spam company coming and going. How does this waste my and others' money when I'm helping the USPS generate a profit based on the spammers' budgets?
Thanks, but no thanks.
Sorry to be so unhumorous, but read the posts above. "Furthermore, for all you people "strap a brick to the BRM and throw it in a mail box... yeah that will get them"
p. 913 S922 1.6 BRM may not be used for any purpose other than that intended by the permit holder, even if postage is affixed. In cases where a BRM card or letter is used improperly as a label, the USPS treats the item as waste."
You've just made the postman's life a lot harder for no reason, because that brick will not be charged to the spammer, it will just be thrown away - something you could have done in the first place.
LOL. Then there must be a lot of tsatsiki on slashdot !!!!
Nobody believes the official spokesman, but everybody trusts an unidentified source. -- Ron Nesen
Please note the past tense of the subject line..
... that is where those envelopes go when you mail them back. They pay someone to sit in a glass box surounded by cameras to open envelopes, take out the information and/or money, categorize it, etc. If you mail back garbage, it does cost the company money. Not too much though, since usually the client gets a flat bill from the direct marketers. It is the direct marketers that get the cost pasted on to them.
(puts flame suit on)
Ok, first of all, I was not involved with the actual list rentals, or anything. I was in the IT department. We wrote software to assist in internal processing of lists companies send us for segmentation, Merge/Purge, NCOA markup, etc.
We also ran a response center
Just thought I would clear that up.
-- bearclaw
I don't object to junk mail (except for ecological reasons) because they are doing it on with thier money and resources, as opposed to SPAM which is doing it on mine. SPAM is theft, junk mail is merely a mild annoyance. To me this distinction is important - pick your battles wisely.
It's nota my planet, monkey-boy - Dr Lizardo.
Returning stuffed junk mail. I like it.
Wouldn't it be great if there was a clear analogy
to returning SPAM? I guess the closest thing
is DOS attacks on the service provider, but that really hurts
more than just the spammer.
any other ideas?
Why not put another spammer's address on the information. The worst effect it could have would be that they ignore it and throw it away. The best effect would be to start a spam flood to another spammer (I know I'm dreaming here). :-)
I tried that once many years ago, I sent a message to my friend in one of those envelopes. I remember that he got it.
Of course, then you'd really be screwing the PO.
Spain has what they call "The Robinson" list, named after Robinson Crusoe. If you join the list, they just stop sending you all this useless materiel. Useful and free.
Why does the USPS continually raise postage rates when they are announcing hundreds of millions of dollars NET at the end of each fiscal year? It seems to be the solution would be to raise bulk mail rates through the roof.
Or for that matter Slashcode, the Linux Kernel, {insert favorite Open Source Project}
Just an idea.
Get a life.
These places generally have a "mail opener" piece of hardware. Essentially a rotating blade that shaves off the very end of the envelope. Then they use a stream of air and gravity to extract the contents. Very quick, efficient, and no human hands in use.
Ron Gage - Westland, MI
I got an idea, just put like 4 little baggies full of a white powder in there, or maybe some chopped up parsley in there... :-) Can you imagine what would happen if the post office opened it... :-)
I want my rights back. I was actually using them when our government stole them after 9/11.
Print off some pr0n from the Internet (the more perverted the better), and enclose a picture or two in every Postage Paid Return envelope. :-)
I want my rights back. I was actually using them when our government stole them after 9/11.
It's not as though it will bring socialism crashing down on your head, is it? Is it?
Oh really? What would be next in store for us if we handed our precious freedom over to the government! Maybe they would want all the people on the LIST to get new cars with wonky steering wheels and then drive them on the wrong side of the road?!?!
I've been called a crackpot before just don't call me a crackpot head, I'm a one drug man reserved solely for rubber cement!
The surest way to make a monkey of a man is to quote him. --Robert Benchley
I tend to sympathize with the postal workers. I know many, and they all hate junk mail as much as we do (remember, we may get 4-5 pieces a day, but they each deliver many thousand times that).
this is getting old and so are you
blog
Who uses snail-mail anymore?
A friend of mine does the same thing when ever he donates money. He will put in a fake middle name or initial and keeps a log of which name he gave to which organization. By doing this he can figure out if anyone is selling his name, and will not give the guilty party anymore money.
Either give it away or get top dollar, but never sell yourself cheap.
I don't know how many times that I would have liked to return junk mail attached to heavy objects. The problem is that most junk mail comes from companies that I either have or will do business with. By sending the junk mail back attached to heavy objects I will only end up paying more for the same service. What you should do is either call them or send them a letter asking you to take you off their list.
Can you get free postage by putting the address of the person you want to send something to in the return address place and your address in the regular address place and stick it in a blue box?! or do they just say, hey ... it don't have a stamp and chuck it. not that i'm cheap or anything!
Oh my god, another signiture that makes no sense.
What about all the starving/abducted/have-you-seen-my-lost-ass kids? john walsh(SP?) would be horrified by your lack of respect for snail mail rejects!
Oh my god, another signiture that makes no sense.
YES! Weigh it down, Dammit! I don't want you to send me this stuff, so you're gonna pay if you send it! ...dude!?
This is a sample sig. Press F1 to personalize.
Take a stand against junk mail! Sorry Mr. Postal Worker! Sorry... ? this is the thing keeping them in a job! :)
How about returning the original letter with the word 'Deceased' written on it. No sense in sending junk mail to someone who is dead, at least if you're trying to target your market by a factor other than geographical location.
I've used the tactic to some degree with telemarketers, telling them that the person of that name (me) is dead. They typically give a quick 'Sorry' and hang up.
If you can't beat them, embrace and extend them.
BTW, though, the retailer DOES lose a little money based on credit card transactions. At leats for a small-timer, ($0.30 + 2-5%) of the transaction is normal.
Now, if I would have had them on automatic withdrawal, they would've taken the $220 without me even knowing it until their little statement comes in the mail. Of course, in the meantime, I think I've got $150 more than I do, so I bounce a check or two. But, yeah, Sprint will refund me the money NEXT FSCKING MONTH! Can we say interest free loan to Sprint?
So, let's see. Now I'm out $150 for 1 month, assuming 12% interest, that's $15. (Of course, I don't earn 12% interest, I actually pay about 18.5% interest because of credit-card debt, but whatever...12% is easier to figure). Plus, let's say 2 bounced checks, that's $30x2=$60. Plus, let's not forget that whoever I wrote the checks to are going to charge me. So that's another $30x2=$60. And, let's say one of those checks was to my credit card company, now we have a late fee of $30.
$15+$60+$60+$30=$165. So, you see, really Sprint is giving me that money back at all. I'd been better off if I just gave them the extra $150.
I guess the response to this is to hit the local Kinkos. Reproduce the BRM on card stock, enlarging it so that it is *just barely* over the (C100) limit for size. Then mail those copies back from various boxes around the city.
Be sure to use gloves. (-:
In a related story, the IRS has recently ruled that the cost of Windows upgrades can NOT be deducted as a gambling loss.
How are they going to get your name and address from returning a prepaid envelope? You're not going to put that information on the front are you? Yes, what you just described is somewhat true for spammers using email, but not for snail mail.
They still need to pay someone to sit there all day and actually open these envelopes. Imagine the look on that minimum wage employee's face when he/she opens the envelope to find more junk mail!
Of course it would have to come from the Iraqi desert...
Perhaps we should start some kind of "MAIL THAT FRIGGIN THING BACK, LOADED!!!" day that looms like the pending actors guild strike?
That would be the day that postal carriers dread more than XmAs.
JunkMail Removal Info
The horse is dead, stop beating it (don't be dirty), it's time to move on...
=-=-=-=-=
"Do you hear the Slashdotters sing,
=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=
Oh bother.
Does anyone know if spamming actually works as a marketing tactic?
how about some of those g.d. aol cds? ok, so you'd have to break them in half...maybe not. Too bad, 2 birds and all that.
Believe it or not, calling up and asking them to take you off their mailing list tends to actually work (for a little while anyway). Hey, anybody willing to get the ball rolling on a anti junk-mail bill/petition? Also, you can buy some labels here to re-use them (if you're worried about paper consumption).
send the spammers hundreds of core dumps or other text files, things of annoyance. in a single email message body. for those who are stupid enough to spam from a real email address.
-sig? who said anything about a sig?!
I'm not *that* Kibo. I'm the real Kibo. Nick Adams (Hemmingway character, his sort of alter ego I bet) had a dog named Kibo when he was a child. The other Kibo is probably too hip for 900kB sigs now, or working on a ascii postprocess filter for trueSpace 5, but it's one of the two.
--Jimmy has fancy plans; and pants to match.
It only takes a few seconds to open the junk mail, extract, seal and drop the return envelope on your outgoing mail pile.
It will, however, delay future postal rate increases. The bulk mailers do have to pay when that business reply envelope is sent back. More mail = more postal service income = longer delay before they raise the rates.
And all this talk about raising the cost of goods I'll eventually have to buy is bunk. I'm NEVER going to buy a 'turnip twaddler' nor anything else from the vast majority of snail-spam vendors.
Or, alternatively, you could just include a bit of Limburger cheese.
Make sure it has plenty of time to um, ferment first. It's bad enough fresh, I'd hate to smell it when it was rotted a bit.
------------
Try a building supply store. A lot of them have sheets of tine used for barn and garage roofs.
But the thing I've found is fishing weights, when melted down and "smoothed" into a sheet allow you to form a much heavier "sheet" that will fit perfectly into whatever envelope you need it to as you can form it yourself and you don't need to worry about cutting yourself.
What's that you say? No, I don't have too much time on my hands. I just enjoy a good case of vengeance.
------------
There is no way in hell I am giving these companies permission to withdraw their billing amounts directly from my account. I find at least one mistake on each credit card bill and my cable and utility bills screw up at least once a year each. Europeans are much more used to turning over their lives to government and then complaining that nothing gets done. This is another example of that and another reason that Silicon Valley did not and could not have happened there. There are a number of other things we are behind them with, like our weak family relationships and our slavish consumption of what the advertisers tell us to buy but this is not one of them.
I haven't seen anybody mention this yet, but most BRM I've seen has some legaleese (presumably from USPS regs) about their being penalties for personal use of it. Wouldn't this anti-BRM campaign be considered personal use, and hence illegal?
Just because someone gave me an unsolicited Ferarri doesn't give me the right to drive it at 200MPH...
For those of you who don't know it, this story was inspired by a story last night / yesterday entitled "Spammer Gets Spammed." There were two things that I found to be really funny there, I wanted to repeat them because I don't see them here. Not surprisingly, they were the top two posts. See the story here. Provided that no moderators go and remoderate, the two I liked were the two top posts. I am not claiming credit for them, but they were so funny that I wanted to mention them again...
The first one mentions referring telemarketers to a "Mr. Wolf", who managed donation issues and such. Telemarketers were given the phone number for the local zoo.
But my absolute favorite was this list of things to put in reply envelopes:
Again, I'm not claiming credit for this list. (It was posted by "xFox")
________________________________________________
suwain_2
Exactly what I was going to say -- you can be fined for "abusing" the Postal Service. There was a link somewhere that mentioned that they went to pick up some rotting thing that they had mailed to themselves, and were warned that they could be fined -- even though they were the recipient. (The PS had no knowledge that they were also the sender.)
________________________________________________
suwain_2
Umm... Won't your friends get billed for it? I don't know that they would really like that.
________________________________________________
suwain_2
The only way to discourage unsolicited mail (short of government intervention...ick) is to hit the solicitor where it counts. They're running a business to make money, right? If the cost/benefit of sending unsolicited mail is good, they'll continue. If it isn't, they'll stop.
Make the costs go up by sending back their pre-paid envelopes with extra payload so that they have to pay postage for nothing. That makes the costs go up.
/
This doesn't affect the postal carriers or the mail-openers unless they take their jobs too personally. If it costs more for the USPS to carry all this crap, they'll charge more and the bulk mailers will feel it, eventually. If the mail-openers have lots of hassle, the bulk mailers will need to hire more, which costs them. Stop being codependent and worrying what everyone will think. It's business.
And they won't know who sent their envelope back if you don't include anything with your name/address in the payload. Duh! I like the sparkle idea myself.
In fact, those of us who sent letters on her behalf have been put on their mailing lists in addition to her.
These are parasites.
Our solution is to get those reader service cards from all the magazines we can find, circle about 10% of the entries, and put a reasonable department description and address to make sure it gets to the parasite's mailroom. We try to make sure the recipient gets something offensive or objectionable (i.e. sending Liberal propaganda to Conservative parasites). Hopefully, the parasite will have much trouble getting of the lists as we do.
Just think how wonderful it would be if all the resources of unsolicited bulk mail companies were tied up trying to get themselves off mailing lists!
P.s. Does anyone know if there are any porn industry trade mags? We'd love to send some of those reader service cards to some of the "Christian" organizations that won't retract the fangs from my mother. Please send me any you know of.
Duct tape is easy, fast, and has the kind of stickyness that the cutter blade WILL get caugt on. Make sure thought that you put it on the inside, because I assume that "the evil ones" will spot one of those babies a mile away, and have been there before.
Better idea... Fry a AOL CD, smear some locally available fecal matter (whatever you see fit to use) on the CD and put a new label on the front of the most disgusting porn you can find. Teach these self centered [self censored comment...............] spam mailers how the annoyed fight back to the world.
Worry is like intrest paid on a loan that never comes due.
Nope. You're wrong.
I get solicitations from Political groups and charities all the time where they explicitly suggest that I put a stamp on the Postage Paid envelope to give them a little extra contribution.
Hay thar.
If you live near an Apartment and see more mailings in the trash can they usually set out by the mail kiosk then mail those back in too.
Be careful.
If you pull a sealed envelope out of the trash that has somebody else's name/address on it and open it, you have committed a felony. Anybody who sees you grabbing the envelopes can reasonably assume you're engaged in some sort of fraud and you will eventually get caught. It won't matter if you can prove all you were doing was pulling out the envelopes to 'fight back' (which of course itself is of dubious legality). You'll answer for your prank.
Hay thar.
i live in iowa, there is nothing better to do...
why do people care so much about junk mail? it only takes 5 seconds to throw it away...
-----
so i says to mable, i says
Perhaps we should start attaching the lovebug to Spam reply emails telling them to remove us from the list.. my details are attached ;)
Uh... I believe this was posted as humor...
However, thanks for the info... I'll have to try that.
old or broken AOL coasters
worthless etoys.com stock certificates
special order from dogdoo.com
that nasty old fruitcake, passed around like a hot-potato since christmas, 1983
pr0n
naked pictures of Cowboy Neal
I have an uncle who kept getting mail from TIME magazine. My uncle happens to breed pigs for a living so he sent them a vile of expired hog semen. They didnt bother him anymore...
I for once agree that the US Gov. should be involved, but only as a way of maintaining a database along with all our damn SSN's that says I don't want to receive this kind of junk mail, and this kind of email spam. Having your name on the list would be completely voluntary for the individual, but companies would be required to check it before sending spam to you. And there would be strict requirements for even being given access to look at such records as a company. It would cut down on all the useless mail I throw out every day, as well as make consumers MUCH less vulnerable to con-artists operating through spam. If enforcement was quick and swift, it wouldn't be a big problem, and would not lend itself to more legislation. Half the legislation in this country isn't enforced anyways. We've got all kinds of laws banning AK-47's, but all the criminals seem to have 'em, while us normal Joe's are stuck with facing more legislation about gun control. Ridiculous.
I seem to remember a certain incident in California about 4 years ago involving 3 men armed with fully automatic machine guns (I believe AK's were involved) where even the police could not stop their killing spree because the police were not even allowed to carry fully automatic rifles! The police had to commandeer more powerful rifles from a local gun store before they could take out the criminals. That is what I refer to when I call this sort of legistlation 'Ridicuolous'. Maybe if more people were allowed to own rifles, handguns, etc. Those 3 men would have thought twice about this. How could they know who was packin' and who wasn't? They might just get in the face when they turned around...
Remember that incident last Spring in which Oracle got caught going through the trash of some organization that was supporting Microsoft? The private detective agency they hired first tried to buy trash from the cleaning company. When that didn't work, they ended up renting an office in the same building so that they could invade the (evidently indoor) dumpster without committing a a trespass!
many of the companies that sent you junk with pre-paid "reply" mail, have already paid for the postage. last time I checked, no matter if you throw the envelope away or whether you send it back it dosn't cost the company any more or less, becuase they have paid in advance for "bulk shipping rates", hense the written notice where the stamp should be "no stamp needed..." If it says pre-paid shipping then the company just pre-paid a set amount at a very discounted rate becuase of the bulk they were going to be sending out. It is unlikey and big waste of time for th epost office to track all those darn lil envelopes and figure out charges on EACH one (esp. considering the amount of those envelopes that are sent on a dailey basis), and then have to invoice the company for them. The most standard way bulk mailers do the no postage envelopes is to apply for a bulk rate, and pre-pay shipping on all of the envelopes based off of the number of mailings they will be sending out.
"It's better to be a pirate then join the Navy"
Hrm. They got that New fangled internet thang in the trailer park eh?
Here are a couple suggestions. First, find a non-existant address and ficticious name. Next, print labels on your laser printer. Be sure to include a phone number, and all of the other things they typically ask for on those reply cards. Make the info look real. Slap in on the front of the card and drop it in the mail. With any luck, they will add the non-existant person to their mailing list and have to pay for even more mail. Or, you can do what I do. Print labels or complete the cards with someone else's information (someone you don't like very much). Not only are you costing the junk mailer money but also annoying the hell out of someone you don't like.
I used to think along these lines - putting telemarketers on hold for a long time, making a few dozen calls to 800 numbers listed in spam e-mails, i.e. pretty much everything Emily Postnews recommends - but it's just not worth my effort. I will always adhere to the minimal and essential commitment never to buy anything as a result of invasive and unsolicited advertising, but there's just too many suckers out there who easily make up the cheap marketing costs of bulk mailings. So stooping to respond to mass marketing measures no longer appeals to me. It's all a slippery slope to Ted Kazinsky's tactics anyhoo.
Some useful URLs, though:c e.html
http://www.the-dma.org/consumers/consumerassistan
http://www.mcs.com/~jcr/junkemaildeal.html
- John
Cut out the address listed on the envelope and replace it with one where you actually want to send an envelope, use it to send to your friends.
Read my short stories - You won't regret it.
We did it to their web sites, lets do it via snail mail too!
razor blades
used condoms
happy couple photos
excrement
sob stories about loved ones
/dev/null > /dev/brain
The public is weird man!
cat
- http://daveramsey.com/fpu/creditreb.pdf
which I print out and send back in the envelope. It starts out and goes on from there. It doesn't have anyone's name on it, so they can't exact any sort of corporate vengeance, and it DOES cost them money to receive it.You hate junk mail. Fine.
But as soon as you deal with the piece of advertising you received, the company that sent you it has achieved part of their goal.
EVERYBODY who's heard of AOL knows that they are known for their CDs. If you get a computer magazine once in a while you can not not have heard of AOL.
You then proceed to attache a brick to the CD and post it back.
Next time you see an AOL add you think:
HA! Those suckers! They're the people I sent that brick.
What have we here? Brand recognition. You know they exist, and chances are you know a little about them.
The only way to really hurt (aka stop) people who spam is to stop them from achieving their objectives - so that they are wasting their time and money.
Get them where it hurts: take them spam and dump it straight away. Don't read it, don't think about it. Just ignore it as much as possible.
Next time you go shopping you will not know about the great deal that they have, you will not know where the new shop opened.
Never respond in anyway to anything you received that was unsolicited. You want a product, go out and inform yourself and based on that buy.
Example: you get a magazine with a great deal on subscription. First of all, you shouldn't know about it. Second, if you react to it, the company who sent it knows their spam is working.
What I recommend: go to a well sorted news agent, browse the magazines, compare, and buy a copy of the magazine. Then call the subscription hotline number in the impressum. When they ask where yu found out about them: don't say - I read your flyer.
Bottom line: You must never react in a manner that the busines, who has an interst in reaching you , is able to perceive.
Problem: Most people are too (sorry about this) stupid to pull through with this. They are to comfortable in their life. They sit at home and wait to be innundated with information and do nothing about it except preach to the converted.
Why it'll never go away: The broad public, i.e. all the people who are not reading this, will never take action, nevermind inconveniance themselves.
There you have it - my 2 x for today (replace x with the smallest unit of your local currency).
when mailing those postage paid envelopes, you should scoop in a little bit of spam.
its obvious
If you stuff the envelope with other junk mail, make sure it doesn't have your name on it. And don't mail dangerous things (like sheet metal?). A brick works fine!
Perhaps I should explain more how bills can be payed for in europe (or at least in Switzerland). One option (which is what everyone here has been talking about) is to allow companies direct withdrawls. The other option is that when they send the bill, it comes with a standardised form. With this form, you can log on to your bank and pay the bill directly. Just type in the numbers on the standardised form into the web page and the bill is paid. You can even say when the bill should be paid, or how much should be paid, in case you only want to pay half the bill this month ... In many ways nicer than a check in the mail, with no added safety problems.
Use all o' them business reply mail postage paid envelopes to mail out copies of your band's tape to folks who wouldn't get a chance to hear your music otherwise. What better way to market to all them slacker gen x clerks than reaching them at their crappy temp jobs? It would appear like mana from heaven in the midst of all the other crap they have to put up with each day and even if the music sucked it would still most likely be given a listen just because of the unorthodox nature of distribution.
Hey Hi I cant go to the home to listen to the music thanks bey.
Check out this story at Straight Dope.
http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a2_356.html
Somebody already thought of this idea.
As discussed in the article yesturday, they don't let you do that. This is the thread with some more info about that. Here is some more info on what can and can't be done.
As for junk mail - why can't you just put your name on the no-junk-mail list? It works quite well (I personally haven't done it because I don't mind junk mail - it's better than no mail and sometimes amusing =P - but I know people who have done so and they now get almost none). It seems that people such as CmdrTaco are not really interested in reducing the amount of junk mail they get, since they'd rather waste time mailing envelopes of glue than asking to be put on a simple list that would have a much more dramatic effect. The junk mail which he and others don't even try to stop seems to just be a convenient excuse for some middle-school style mischief. Of course I guess then it makes sense that he and others have not subscribed to the do-not-junk-mail list, because then it would take away the excuse to post stupid stories like this one.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Why not? You will pay it off eventually, so why not wait until you have the money before buying it? Rather than buying your new 1.2 GHz computer now when you have no money, and then spend the next six months playing off $2000 plus $500 interest, why not wait 3 months and then buy it - by the 4th month (when the credit card bill comes) you'll have saved the $2000 and can pay it off at once, saving the $500 interest.
(figures are very rounded of course)
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
How about just filling the envelope with glue!
The difference between Canada and the USA is that in Canada healthcare is a right and gun ownership is a privilege.
May this is true, but more often, the ones who end up paying are the customers and not the big evil companies you are trying to fight.
To some extent, that is true for a time. At some point, the company either gives up junk mail as unprofitable, or it's customers go to another business that isn't passing on as much cost ans so is cheaper.
If you had truly avoided the advertising business then you would either be living off the land with your Amish brethren or holed up in a shack a la The Unibomber.
I'm pretty sure that "Advertising business" in this case means the particular business that is advertising by telephone solicitation. I think you read the emPHAsis on the wrong sylLAble.
Instead of such tactics, you need to go after the big people, the ones that run these spamhouses. At least for telemarketters, we have a legal way to deal with that in terms of the do-not-call lists. If the telemarketting group violates that, it can hurt them. Unfortunately, we have no similar provision for mail, mostly because it's non-disruptive and costs us little. We ought to invoke regulations with "do-not-mail" lists for mail as well. These are probably harder to maintain, but *good*, that's the way they should be -- if they want to try targetted advertizing, they better be ready to make sure their target is true.
Of course, all this wouldn't be a problem if we had privacy laws that prevent magazine subscriptions being shared with credit card companies. I get at least 5 of these a WEEK, and they're getting worse. A friend got one with the amazing low APR of 40% -- yeah, right! Maybe require that any advertizing that you get in the mail needs to specifically state where they got your name and address from such that you know which magazine subscriptions do such tactics.
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
--
Yes but to be removed from the mailing list the envelope would have to contain your name. If the envelope contained your name.. then they can sue you for breaking their equipment.
OR WORSE Sending you EVEN MORE junk mail.
So, I find me a good brick, wrap it in brown paper, tape on the return card with my return address showing in big letters and mail it.
It works.
I have even gotten back nasty letters from the people I mailed it to. Telling me they would never send me another catalog. Like that was a bad thing. :-)
There are 10 type of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't.
I just seal the envelopes and send them back. But I actually do it.
What I'm listening to now on Pandora...
just buy a wood burning stove, and subscribe to as many junk mail lists as possible. then heat your house with it. simple.
US Citizen living abroad? Register to vote!
This will not affect junk mail and spam at all. The only thing you're about to accomplish is the end of postage paid envelopes. They will still spam you and others. The only difference is that people actually interested in the product - spammed or not - won't be able to send in anything without any costs.
Well, all I can say is that the Canadian equivalent worked marvelously.
--
--
Don't like it? Respond with words, not karma.
I don't have the problem of snail mail spam living in Sweden. I just put a small "No ads please" note on my door and the postman is obliged not to put any ads in there. If snail mail spam is as annoying as email ones are, I can understand people are mad, but I'm sure there are more constructive ways to handle this.
Bush: Our Long National Nightmare Of Peace And Prosperity Is Finally Over.
************************************************ ** *
Being bitter is drinking poison and hoping someone else will die
I use dialpad.com for this purpose.
I think it's only fitting to take the junk they sent you, *all* of it, tear it into pieces, put the pieces back into the reply envelope, and send the lot of it back to them.
--Jim
Yeah, well it's not necessarily fear of regulation...
In Europe, most governments recognize significantly more rights to privacy for their citizens than the US does.
I can see the fnords!
--
Linux BeOS FreeBSD MacOS X QNX
SUB-20000 USER ID FOR FREE!
-Joe
Yeah, but what if, instead of suing, they take the name off the mailing list? When I swear an oath of vengeance against a hated enemy, the last thing I want to do is have them taken off junkmail lists. My enemy will laugh in my face the next time he sees me! "Gee, Sloppy, I didn't know you played such hardball. What next, are you going to take me off the email spam lists too?" That would be so humiliating.
---
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.
Junk mail is a godsend!
Without junk mail, the price of a first class stamp would be over a dollar (see USPS Rate Commission Case, Buc appendix).
My company DID most of the valuations for this back in 1997. What was found:
1st class mail costs too little and
3rd class mail costs too much, given the service provided.
Sure, we all complain when the PS raises rates by a penny once in awhile, but without junkmail, it'd be much, much more.
If you're really interested, hit http://www.prc.gov/fandp/fandp.htm
and look at what the USPS actually does and how the rates are affected.
Given I can drop a letter in a box and have it arrive in Lost City, West Virginia in three days is a miricle. If we had a true private company delivering the mail, we'd be hosed!
BTW, 1st class mail accounts for almost 53% of the load, even with the expansion of e-mail. It also gives the USPS most of it's revenue. But without that 25% operating profit from junk mail, mail would be a LOT more expensive.
Remember, it's not straight math: save a dime here doesn't translate to a dime there -- kind of like how if oil goes up a penny a barrel your gas goes up a nickel.
46. The Hobo smiles, his eyes glaze over, and he burps. "Beware the man who has lived longer than the Wasteland."
Actually, there _are_ regulations about junk mail.
Go to junkbusters.com and check it out.
They have convenient forms to fill out and print
to people who hold databases on addresses for you,
etc. They are required to remove you if you
ask. Also works for phone calls, etc.
They also make a web proxy which blocks cookies
and banner ads etc. Well worth the browse:
http://www.junkbusters.com/
They are nonprofit, etc.
If I had no sense of humor, I would long ago have committed suicide. -Ghandi
In the reply envelope put nasty stuff.
Carbon fibres.
Fiberglass insulation.
Broken styrofoam.
Hair from a brush, esp dog hair.
Or along the lines of my personal favoite...
Put tape on the inside of the flap. Duct tape would be great. Then when the auto-opener opens the mail it will jam and get gummed up.
These are just ideas.
-cpd
The junk mail is paid for in my fees, and in the price of my software.
Not misguided protest at all. You hit it right on the head: they pass those costs along to you the consumer. When their prices go up because of junk mail, they will pass those extra costs along to the consumer as well. If they pass along too many extra costs, and their prices go up too high, they'll lose sales. That's sort of the whole point to this.
--
Pretend there is some witty statement here.
but if the problem is not the money taken from the cards but the result in your credithistory, then again the cards are not the problem, but the fact that a credit history exists in the first place.
i find the whole credithistory thing phony, that should be outlawed (and i am pretty sure that is the case is in most of europe)
greetings, eMBee.
--
Gnu is Not Unix / Linux Is Not UniX
you didn't ask for these so it's not your money.
greetings, eMBee.
--
Gnu is Not Unix / Linux Is Not UniX
disclaimer: I live in Canada, and was born in Italy.
First of all, here in Canada I pay most my bills via direct withdrawal on my bank account or via the very convenient web payment options that my bank provides.
The only things that I pay via the 'put a check in the envelope' routine are:
- Some credit card bills (my bank doesn't let me webpay other banks' credit card bills unfortunately)
- Charity things
- The odd thing I don't feel like paying with a credit card, which happens like once a year or so.
that's it. If you can't do the same, change your bank to a more technologically advanced one !
-- the cake is a lie
That was the funniest thing I've read in a long time. I'm still crying from the laughter. I'm not sure why I find the idea of sending strange items through the mail so damn funny, but it is. :)
-Restil
Play with my webcams and lights here
my mistake.
--
Gonzo Granzeau
Gonzo Granzeau
"Nothing the god of biomechanics wouldn't let you into heaven for.." -Roy Batty
Photocopy that B.R.M envelope, fold the 81/2x11 in three, stuff with junk then send ONE HUNDRED OF THEM BACK.
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As a consequence of spending time cleaning shit off of their machines this particulat compnay will most likely increase their rates to the said company or will refuse to handle their mail. If people regularly did this then the processing companies would all raise their rates and make it prohibitive to send junk mail to people who don't want it.
You see it would work in the end.
War is necrophilia.
The point is to make your job so misrable that you'd quit or ask for a raise. Either way we win. Right now one in a million does something goofy. If that number reached 10 to 20% this would consume most of your time. The company would have to hire more people (may 10 times as much) just to deal with pranksters.
As a net result it would be too expensive for the company to conduct a mailing campaign. They don't give a rats ass about you or me but you can be sure they care about paying you more money or hiring more people.
War is necrophilia.
Yesterday someone posted the following link:
http://www.talboa.com/junkmail/index.shtml
It has forms you can fill in and print out and mail to get you off the majority of mailing lists, and another form for credit cards. The first form is also supposed to get you onto a no-phone solicitation list too.
Even though I had said that I had just started sending back postage paid envelopes and cards for snail-spam, I decided this would be a better technique to try first. If that doesn't work, then culture-jamming is necessary.
Not only is this painfully redundant, but it's also not very smart.
I don't know about the rest of y'all, but most of the junk mail I get is from companies I would never deal with. Credit card companies, periodicals, mail-order vendors, and businesses that happen to share a zip code with me. Ergo, sending them garbage may harm their other customers, but it's no skin off of my nose.
Moreover, the reason that these companies send out tons of junk mail is because it works. They may only get a 1% response rate, but that's enough to cover the costs and make a little profit. The only way to reduce junk mail is to make it a) less effective, and b) more expensive for the sender.
Not buying from junk mailers does the first; sending back useless replies on their nickel does the second. To get rid of fruit flies or cockroaches, you find and destroy their food source. The same goes for marketroids.
The reason why I don't think it's true is the fact that my Alumni association, when begging for money (unsuccessfully, in my case), asks that you put a stamp on the business reply envelope to save them postage.
So either they're not clear on how this form of postage works, or you aren't -- and my bet is with them, simply because they're probably more greedy than you are. :)
-Omar
Use too much water and electricity, and the cops will assume you're running a hydroponics lab.
As for your VIN - someone joked that they might not want their insurance company knowing they'd just purchased some bondo and paint. I agree - 'cuz I just read the [H]ardOCP article on case-modding, and have a free weekend coming up... ;-)
A better example - would you want your insurance company or a potential employer knowing you were purchasing over-the-counter "supplements" ( never mind the issue of the questionable efficacy of herbals) that people often use to treat medical conditions?
What happens when a data miner notices your purchase of St. John's Wort (that you ran down to the store to get for your bedridden grandmother who believes in the stuff) coinciding with your purchase of a gun ('cuz you happened to take up target shooting last week) and some industrial music (for your skr1pt k1dd13 nephew's Christmas present) and comes to the obvious - yet incorrect - conclusion.
> I really, honestly, WANT TO KNOW what it is they [could/are going to] do with it that would be so terrible as to warrant the hassle of paying my bills by hand...
Unless you want to live in a universe in which the data miners know everything about everyone (so that their software can come to the correct conclusion in cases like the one I outlined), the best response is to deny access to the data unless there's a need-to-know. What you see as the most trivial piece of information could be the one your adversary's looking for.
The marketing organizations do not have your best interests at heart. They have demonstrated a voracious appetite for your data. The logical response is to deny them what they want.
If it's the Cold War and you're a CIA agent, and a cute Russian babe walks up to you and asks you "Amerikanski, I theenk my cheep Russian watch is two minutes slow, and I have to get to the train, what time do you have on your fine Amerikan timepiece?", you don't answer.
Maybe it was just a gal who wanted to know if she'd catch her train. Or maybe she wants to know where to wait for after you synchronize watches with your junior agent who's mission involves walking around town and "bumping into" his contact under a bridge at precisely midnight.
Your call ;-)
As the other posters noted, the USPS does not lose money in the long term. You're not hurting them.
All you are doing is trying to reverse the currently favorable economics of sending out junk mail. Right now, you send out 1 million letters at some small amount each ($.30?) and get back a couple percent with orders. A customer acquisition cost of less than ten bucks. Not bad, and clearly quite profitable. I bought a wine cellar, and have been deluged with what I like to call "Rich idiot" catalogs for $100 dog food dispensers and $2500 suits of armor.
Returning the reply card and causing them to spend money handling it could conceivably reverse the profitability, which is why people do it. Okay, they do it because they are vindictive snots, but if they were rational this is why they would do it.
Walt
A friend of mine has had great success with his variant. He's a) an oenophile, renting space in a commercial wine cellar, b) a UNIX guru since the year zip, with major chops, and c) a complete leftist. Not in the ultraviolet with the likes of RMS, but not likely to support John Ashcroft, either.
At one point in the past, though, he had registered Republican, because he wanted to vote in the primary of a local election against some real tool. This got him on mailing lists.
One day some completely offensive right-wing organization using just such a list sent him a piece of junk mail. NRA, Pat Robertson, something like this.
Now, this fellow, having environmental concerns, had been carefully peeling the lead foil from his wine bottles, as he opened them, flattening the foil into a sheet, and keeping the sheets in a stack in a desk drawer till he could dispose of the lead safely. In a moment of inspiration, he pulled one or two of them out, put them into the postage-paid reply envelope, and sent it in. There are upper limits on the weight that postage-paid reply mail will accept, but two or three sheets of lead foil isn't over that limit, and makes what he called a very nice "negative contribution."
Guess what? These boys only care that you replied. A hot prospect! He got more mail. He sent more lead back. He got lots more mail. He sent lots more lead back (he had quite a stash built up).
The day he told me this story, he'd received his Republican National Committee card in the mail. He was preparing to make a good big dense-metal negative contribution of a reasonable size in the postage-paid contribution envelope they provided.
S-58 3.0 p. 914 DMM issue 56
"Each piece of returned BRM is charged the applicable single-piece First-Class or Priority Mail postage. Cards must meet the standards in C100 to qualify for card rate postage. Any card larger than those dimensions is charged the applicable First-Class Mail letter rated. For Priority Mail over 5 pounds if the zone cannot be determined from a return address or cancellation, then the permit holder is charged zone 4 postage for the weight of the piece.
Furthermore, for all you people "strap a brick to the BRM and throw it in a mail box... yeah that will get them"
p. 913 S922 1.6
BRM may not be used for any purpose other than that intended by the permit holder, even if postage is affixed. In cases where a BRM card or letter is used improperly as a label, the USPS treats the item as waste.
> Most junk mail I get comes from companies with which I do business in some way..
Then it isn't junk mail. I get credit card offers, magazine offers, coupons... from places I've never done business with -- probably a factor of 10 beyond what I get from places I have done business with.
> Usually, it's credit card companies or software companies of some kind...The junk mail is paid for in my fees
I've never paid a "fee" to a credit card company in my life. Unless they change their model of business, I pay, every month, what I charged. I'm not sure how they make money off me, but it sure won't be from fees or stupid "free" offers.
Yes, but you did warn them, so that should get you off the hook. Oh, and if you're so concerned about getting sued, use the name of your favorite ennemy...
The greek cucumber sauce (forgive the abomination of my spelling of it) tsatsiki is one of the most foul spelling things in this world once it has gone bad. I recommend that.
Unbreakable toys can be used to break other toys.
It's not our problem if the resident of the UK think that exact same government is just the cat's meow.
And the brethren went away edified.
IANAL, but I suspect you are mistaken on that first one.. I think once it leaves the hands of the post office, and leaves the box legally, (IE the recipient takes it indoors) it loses the "post office property" sanctity. (Otherwise, you couldnt rip up junk mail, could you?) As far as that "municipal property" bit.. yes, in the case of recyclables.. but no, in *most* (not all) places in reference to curbside garbage. "most" municipalities do not have municipal garbage anymore either...most of them are large contracts with private firms who pick up garbage, and charge the municipality with pickup. (and believe me, I would suspect they would *rather* you reuse than toss.. it saves them money in landfill and transportation fees). Maeryk
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
The easiest is ripping up whatever they sent you and sending it back. A little added Elmers glue is always fun also. I always shove as much as will fit into the envelope. Pocket lint, coffee grounds, whatever. Make it bulge. Make it heavy. Make it messy.
When will Windows be ready for the desktop?
This is only true mostly because people aren't aware of electronic alternatives. I personally use a site called paymybills.com. Basically I told all my billers to send the bills to their address in Virginia; I get email whenever a new bill arrives. paymybills scans the bill in, enters all the appropriate data (due date, minimum payment, total bill balance), and I can pay my bills (har har) with a couple clicks of the mouse. It's awesome. It's not free, something like $8 bucks a month, but that's easily worth the reduction in hassle and effort I used to put into mailing paper bills.
Wells Fargo, my bank, also has their own version of this accessible through their website, but I was using pmb before I was aware of that, and it's not really worth the effort to change (and it's not free, either, it's still something like $5 a month with WF -- yeah I could save $3 a month, but whatever).
PMB also lets you, at the end of each year, buy (for something like $20) a CD containing your entire bill archives for the year. Spiffy. Naturally there's all sorts of other features I've not mentioned (automatic payment, ability to set up recurring payments for things like rent where you don't get sent a bill, etc.).
Anyone with a computer can put the days of paper behind them.
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
Aside from this?
m l
http://www.paymybills.com/securityandprivacy.ht
I personally am in a sort of meta-confusion state about the whole "respect my privacy!" thing that some Slashdotters (and other privacy advocates) go on about. I don't care what anyone knows about me if they aren't going to use it for a nefarious purpose. Oh no! Someone knows how much electricity I use. Oh no! Someone knows who I call on my telephone.
I don't consider sending junk mail to be nefarious, nor do I have a problem with targeted advertising -- I'd much rather see ads for things I'm interested in, instead of things I'm not. (Wouldn't you? Of course, I'd rather not see ads *at all* but given as it's not much of an option...) When junk mail comes, I chuck it. Sometimes I contact the mailer if I can, and order them to remove me from their mailing list. I usually back this up with lots of threats of lawsuits and criminal proceedings, and they're happy to comply after that...
What's the company going to do with my VIN exactly? I'm confused on that one. And water and electricity... what is it exactly that they are going to *do* with all this information?
Incidentally, I almost never use my land line for making phone calls; I average ONE long-distance call per month. I use my cellphone for everything else, but the phone numbers I call are not listed on my cell phone bill. I can change this if I want, but I haven't wanted to yet. But even if they did have all this info, WHAT ARE THEY GOING TO DO WITH IT?!
Please note that I am NOT saying that they are not going to do anything with it, NOR am I saying that there isn't anything they could do with it. I really, honestly, WANT TO KNOW what it is they [could/are going to] do with it that would be so terrible as to warrant the hassle of paying my bills by hand...
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
Why would the police in Los Angeles be going over my utilities bill stored on computers in Virginia?
As for your VIN - someone joked that they might not want their insurance company knowing they'd just purchased some bondo and paint. I agree - 'cuz I just read the [H]ardOCP article on case-modding, and have a free weekend coming up... ;-)
Um... I don't get it. I don't even know what "bondo" is.
A better example - would you want your insurance company or a potential employer knowing you were purchasing over-the-counter "supplements" ( never mind the issue of the questionable efficacy of herbals) that people often use to treat medical conditions?
If I were dumb enough to buy something like that with a credit card instead of cash...
What happens when a data miner notices your purchase of St. John's Wort (that you ran down to the store to get for your bedridden grandmother who believes in the stuff) coinciding with your purchase of a gun ('cuz you happened to take up target shooting last week) and some industrial music (for your skr1pt k1dd13 nephew's Christmas present) and comes to the obvious - yet incorrect - conclusion.
See above re stupidity of paying with a credit card for things like drugs and guns.
Unless you want to live in a universe in which the data miners know everything about everyone (so that their software can come to the correct conclusion in cases like the one I outlined), the best response is to deny access to the data unless there's a need-to-know. What you see as the most trivial piece of information could be the one your adversary's looking for.
Ah, but this is the crux of the matter. Such data gathering about people SHOULD BE ILLEGAL. Well, not the gathering itself, per se -- but the selling of it. Why? Because it does nothing but degrade the quality of life.
This really just occurred to me, full-formed (I mean yeah, it's kind of obvious, but still). I don't have some kind of personal moral objection to people knowing things about me -- it's the potential for abuse that I would mind. Thanks for helping me realize that :) The upshot is, that kind of stuff should be illegal to sell without explicit written consent from the person involved.
The marketing organizations do not have your best interests at heart. They have demonstrated a voracious appetite for your data. The logical response is to deny them what they want.
This is true, and I agree. However I am comfortable with the fact that paymybills.com has a policy stating they will not sell any of that info. Perhaps they won't follow it; well, I suppose I could live in fear, but that's no fun.
If it's the Cold War and you're a CIA agent, and a cute Russian babe walks up to you and asks you "Amerikanski, I theenk my cheep Russian watch is two minutes slow, and I have to get to the train, what time do you have on your fine Amerikan timepiece?", you don't answer.
If I'm a CIA field operative? I'm certainly not going to be stupid enough to give anyone an accurate reading off my watch.
Maybe it was just a gal who wanted to know if she'd catch her train. Or maybe she wants to know where to wait for after you synchronize watches with your junior agent who's mission involves walking around town and "bumping into" his contact under a bridge at precisely midnight.
Yeah, and maybe you're not with the CIA, and shouldn't make up bizarre situations that have little to do with demographic data collection. :)
"Destroy science and religion. Science would re-emerge exactly the same; but not religion." - Penn Jillette, paraphrased
After reading many of these replys, this seems to be the case:
... junk mail!
1) There is a way to actually get off MOST junk mail lists - mail a postcard to the following address requesting to be removed from junk mail lists:
MAIL PREFERENCE SERVICE
P. O. BOX 9008
FARMINGDALE, NY 11735
(My postcards are in the mail as we speak, thanks to an Anonymous Coward.)
2) Attaching or enclosing bricks, metal, trash, etc. only a) takes more of your time and effort, and b) is probably simply discarded by the local Post Office. The "Postal Spammer" never sees your attempt at rebellion.
What do I do? A couple years ago, I ordered one of those "1000 labels for $4.95" deals, and the label reads:
I am NOT interested
Remove me from your lists
Confirm IN WRITING when I've been removed from your lists
Ironically, the "1000 labels for $4.95" offer was
I simply re-enclose the material they sent in the return envelope, with the label over any signature line. This way they have my personal information on the returned materials so they CAN remove me. Some of you may not want to return personal information, but I'm not THAT paranoid. The key for me is that I can do this with minimal additional time and effort.
Over the last two years I have received almost a dozen replys, usually apologizing for my inconvenience, and usually indicating their limited ability to control their mailings. A couple letters have actually provided information on how to get off junk mail lists.
I hope you find this useful.
I mentioned this in the "Spammer Gets Spammed" article, but I usually hop on this stuff too late to get modded up. Just remove, white-out, or marker over the tracking code (it's usually in the lower left or right-hand corner) and you've truly annoyed them, because not only do they pay for the postage, but they don't get anything useful out of it.
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win. -- Gandhi
Pulled from the excriment processor.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Killing the whole business would save more trees than your goofey recycle bin ever will.
The moron made the Post Office a junk mailer's whore should be shot. Mail used to be nice to get. Now I'm not sure it will get to the other end or be lost in a pile of credit apps. The US Post Office has gone from the envy of the the world with 3 times a day service, to advert delivery system. Barf!
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
The Direct Marketing Assiciation is run by Satan. The Post Office is his Nancy Boy.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
How about putting small explosive devices in the envelopes? Then they'll blow their hands off when they open them! That'll teach 'em!
</sarcasm>
Sending empty or false replies to junk mail isn't going to discourage them. The people who make the decisions are too far away from the people who do the work.
You are trying to change the world by mailing rotting material, shredded phonebooks and bricks?
How about writing a letter to your representatives, and asking for a law similar as the one in Europe that requires companies to have a common blacklist of people who don't want any junk mail?
That true. You can request directly to the Mailers & Callers to be removed from their lists under the Data Protection Act.
An important point of the MPS, FPS & TPS schemes are that it can take upto three months for your name/address/telephone number to be removed from their lists, and the companies are only obliged to keep your name off of their lists for a maximum of one year, after which you have to re-register.
Syllable : It's an Operating System
Ë
Seth
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
My problem with all of this is that doing all this stuff to the return envelopes does nothing but make the sender of it feel better. I used to work for a bank in Application processing. We used to open envelopes on machine AND by hand. Which mean we would get the nasty stuff people would send. We saw large numbers of different things, people would send cigarette butts, religious literature, dirty trash, random other junk mail, sharp pieces of metal. Of course the people in charge of the mail really didn't care what we received, it just went into the trash. And the people that were opening the mail where I worked were temporary workers anyway. So we really didn't have a problem with losing people to opening the mail. You can't imagine how many people send back the envelopes with the phrase "remove me from your list" without any information of their name, address, etc.
-- Wolfpup
"A man whose circumstances went beyond his control." -- Styx
question: is control controlled by its need to control?
answer: yes
This isn't as much "normalization" as it is "don't take so many drugs when you're designing tables."
Argghh!!! It's not the mailers that cause the problem. It's people like you.
You remind me of this room mate I had who actually responded to a telemarketer. If it weren't for people like you, the whole thing would just go away on its own.
So, forget about mailing bricks to the companies. Find the people that like this stuff and mail bricks to *them*.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
You can cut yourself a finger and mail it back to them. It would be pretty disgusting, hence it'll probably be very effective.
Use slashback to tell us if it worked.
Thanks,
--fred
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
Wrong! The DMA's opt-out list (Mail Preference Service, MPS) is entirely optional. What's more, it costs companies money to subscribe to it! Essentially DMA is asking companies to pay extra money to shorten their list of potential customers.
For more info, see this link. They do say that this list is "made available" to companies, not that they are required to use it.
I remember reading an article mentioning that some companies have even used this list as a source of names and addresses to send mail to! Unfortunately, I'm unable to find the article.
You'll defeat the purpose if you overstuff: the envelopes may just get chucked without costing your target anything. Besides, why have it require effort? Just seal the thing and drop it in the mail...
-bluebomber
The Daily Build
The envelope cutters have fun with these too!
-bluebomber
The Daily Build
You dont open the mail, and just write "Return to Sender" on the outside? if you do this all the time, they may think they have the wrong address and stop. Just like when you move into a new house and the old residents mail keeps coming you just put it back in the mailbox, with "return to sender" on it. Better than wasting my time finding something icky to put inside.
The electric yellow has got me by the brain banana
What about the cost to the company? You've returned their mailing, so now they know you read whatever they send to you. Do you expect to get less mail from them? No! They'll sell your name to a list as a person who actually reads their mail!
This is pure idiotocracy. Stop fueling this wierd idea that you're saving the enviroment by returning envelopes. All you are doing is hurting all of us. Now, the company is going to send out more mail, to collect that 30 cents they lost from you. Just be smart, and drop it into the shredder, and recycle the clippings.
/. is a commercial entity. goto slashdot.com
Of course they didn't stop. She billed them, wound up in court when they didn't pay and was awarded what was due plus I believe, costs.
A week later her husband started getting junk from Reader's.....
-
-Be a man. Insult me without using an AC.
- I don't care if they globalize against free speech. All my best free thoughts are done in my head.
Again, this is a useless tactic. One, most of the people who actually see these complaints and open that mail are on your side and agree with you that you oughtn't get so much mail. And there's not much I can do about it. I don't send the mail. All we do is deal with what is returned to us. So if you waste your time and money and effort devising new tactics to get back at the junk mailers, it will simply fall on deaf ears and blind eyes. Sure, we might get a kick out of it, but that's about all.
There should be a government maintained opt-out list, but even then that won't solve the problem. Only when people stop replying to or even paying attention to junk mail, only when people make junk mail uneconomical (and you won't achieve that by making my job harder, I'll just quit and they'll hire another bozo) will it cease.
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
-John Lennon
Yes, the business has to pay a fee to start, but they also get charged postage on the items that actually get used. As to weight limits, a few minutes browsing gets you that info:
http://pe.usps.gov/text/qsg/q922.htm
http://new.usps.com/cgi-bin/uspsbv/scripts/content .jsp?D=24687#a6
But it's certainly easier to talk about something than shuddup and check your facts.
One simple rule for its versus it's
I think if we start to return these envelopes (with or without content) the cost to send junk mail will go up, as the postal service will have an increased cost of delivering all this additional mail and will eventually pass it along ot the junk mailer. Also the junk mailer's cost goes up to process all these additional response.
In the longer term it could make it too costly to send junk mail.
I don't hate the postal service, but providing a disincentive to send me junk seems a good thing.
Fishie,
If you have ever gotten a copy of your credit report, you'll notice a section that lists companies that inquired about your credit history. Most of these, if not all, are credit card companies and the like.
What will happen is that these companies will not be allowed to inquire about your credit history any longer, and you won't get those "pre approved" offers any longer.
I had gone from receiving about 4 credit card offers per week to none in the last 3 months (ever since I opted out). It really makes you feel better, since those credit card offers are a big security risk (especially since the mail is deleivered around 10am, and I usually don't get home until after 8pm) since anyone could snag those "offers" and have fun at your expense.
Enjoy!
you sent paper shreddings, sheet metal, and glitter to the Mail Preference Service? After all, they're owned by the DMA, so they're sort of bad guys too, right?
sulli
RTFJ.
Penguins a go-go. The Linux Pimp
--It's Pimptastic!--
Hey, I wrote the original post!
say, start an antijunk mail company, where people become stockholders by sending in checks of $10 a year, and then using that money to 'buy' services from the USPS to prevent being sent junk mail?
That's what I said. So my point was to start a non-profit organization that had the clout and the resources to 'buy', in the sense of getting the USPS to listen to us, the same way environmentalists buy land to place into trusts and parks, not 'buy' as in paying companies not to send spam.
The company should be more than spam and junk mail; it can be about privacy, personal rights, and personal preferences, including telemarketing, bulk mail, and electronic spam. I'm not sure what I said wrong that got people thinking about sending money to a company to prevent them from spamming you!
Geek dating!
GPL Deconstructed
Is the only thing the government can do? Regulate?
At least I was thinking that the gov could create an atmosphere and situations where people have the power and the ability to create their own lifestyle. Is that only possible through regulation? I guess you could call laws, fines, taxes, purchases, research, production, and fees regulation. Govt runs public services, programs, research institutions, etc.
Well?
Geek dating!
GPL Deconstructed
...an empty envelope, what about sending THEM a bill for your time.
Or for that matter, the storage of the crap they sent in the round storage can.
Seems to me they change a "handling" fee, why not us/
-Goran
Carpe Scrotum - The only way to deal with your competition.
Second, I have a hard time believing that you could buy a car, furniture, applicances, or a decent computer, and pay it off within one month. You ought to write a book on financial responsibility - I would gladly buy it.
"Free" offers are bunk, no argument, but the interest fees, transfer fees, and fees to retailers are where the money goes.
IIRC, a credit card transaction costs the retailer 3-5% of the price paid by the consumer. When VISA's cost of doing business goes up (due to 'pre-paid' retribution) they hike up their interest rates (which hurts me directly) and increase the transaction charge to the retailer - who in turn raises prices to maintain his profit margin - which hurts me transitively.
As for junk-mail from companies you do not do business with... If you have a VISA card, you will get mail from all sorts of banks which offer a VISA card, not just from your bank - it's still VISA. Your contact info got sold to many other businesses as well - but you already knew that. Now, these businesses have customers who bear the brunt of 'pre-paid' retribution; so is it so hard to accept that when someone retaliates this way against a company with which you do business, your costs go up in response?
I'm not talking about a direct cause and effect involving the individual, but rather more holistically, in a distributed fashion. 'Pre-paid' retribution takes more money out of consumer pockets in general, making the whole class of junk-mailing companies richer, not just a specific one.
The REAL jabber has the /. user id: 13196
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
And, as the costs rise, the passed-along cost takes the trend into account. So the increase is greater than the cost, and so there is profit made by the 'evil corporation' we're trying to subdue.
It's battling windmills. A better approach is to organize consumers, educate them, and get them to commit to a boycott. It drives the point home without costing the consumer additional money.
Organizing boycotts takes time and effort, while putting junk in a 'pre-paid' envelope gives a sense of immediate satisfaction. Satisfaction feels good, but it really isn't effective. It's like swearing at your boss - you vent and feel better, but it's costing you in the long run. If you want to save consumers money, don't advocate something the cost of which just gets passed down to consumers anyway.
Instead, write your legislators and voice your outrage. And while you have their attention, ask them to explain the double-taxation practice of charging an Income tax, and a Sales tax on the same money.
The REAL jabber has the /. user id: 13196
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
1. True enough, I can't argue with the convenience of throwing it out once per day. Now, if only my Post Office would offer a mail-filtering option, a real-time black hole list and an auto-responder, that would be nice.
2. Lower cost bulk rate? The stamps I put on the NON-postage-paid envelopes in which I send in my payments just went up by 3%.. That 'lower cost bulk rate' is what SHOULD have absorbed that extra penny, not my mail. This way, I would get lower cost mail, and they might have some incentive to send out less junk. In my favorite wet-dream, I get to send my payments in pre-paid envelopes - but that's just a dream.
3. There should be a law requiring that all junk mail be printed on butt-friendly, quilted and scented tissues. That way, I could save money on toilet paper.
The REAL jabber has the /. user id: 13196
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life
This topic has come up before somewhere... My favorite was one somebody mentioned - they would fill the envelopes with the fertilizer they were producing (read animal excrement) and send it back : )
Many many MANY people talked about this on your very own website. Why not just read the posts?
Here's the upshot for the lazy: The Post Office used to be required to deliver anything with an address (and conforming to some size/weight/safety restrictions). But in the case of junkmail/magazine-tearouts affixed to bricks and so forth, postal workers generally toss the item in the trash, "According to rule 917.243(b) in the Domestic Mail Manual". Source
Anyway, I still suggest you go through and read the posts yourself, there are a few good links in there (like the Improbable Research item about sending odd items through the mail)
--
MailOne
Non-meta-modded "Overrated" mods are killing Slashdot
(Hey Ryan! Here's your proof!)
humor for the clinically insane
great comedy company.
OK, first, let's not take out any anger we may have on the USPS. If you mail dog poo or other things that may open in transit, you are probably making the USPS deal with it. That's not fair - they get told to offer sweetheart deals to those companies, and they do their darnedest to deliver the mail.
Secondly, think about who gets the replies. It may be an order fulfillment house, or it may be a real company. You are more likely to get real change by viral solutions which take over the resources of the host than by direct attack.
So sending glitter or other stuff is a direct attack. I'm not saying you shouldn't do it, just think about it. The suggestion that you put all the non-identified filler in the envelope (removing codes, names, addresses) as well as other junk paper is a good one - this causes the sender to incur a disposal fee for the true cost of the mailing, instead of you. And maybe buying a stamp which says "USE RECYCLED PAPER" or "TAKE ME OFF YOUR MAILING LIST" and stamping the outside of that filler is good - I have stamps like that myself.
Or maybe you can say "I DON'T BUY FROM COMPANIES WHICH DON'T USE OPEN SOURCE SOFTWARE LIKE LINUX" (man, someone do up a stamp for this!) instead.
But think about who will get it.
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
Yesterday someone posted the following link:
http://www.talboa.com/junkmail/index.shtml
It has forms you can fill in and print out and mail to get you off the majority of mailing lists, and another form for credit cards. The first form is also supposed to get you onto a no-phone solicitation list too.
Yeah, went to the site, it is useful. And it's really easy to use, for a lot of reward.
So long as we participate in the system, they'll keep using it against us. If we start opting out, maybe they'll pay attention and realize that their approach is wrong.
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?
There's no way for each class to be truly self-supporting unless each class has to pay for the entire USPS infrastructure -- in which case the postal service would be making a massive profit. The economies of scale in sending all the classes through the same system are not an explicit subsidy, but they are an implicit one.
There's no "we" in team, only "me"
Picture this, your making 6$ an hour opening envolopes for some cheap ass company, mostlikly barle making your rent. of course you have to open like 1000per hour entering all the data into the computer, have a disgruntaled bos breathing down your neck, and then to top it off you end up opening lots of emptys and even worse ones with strange crap inside. whos ever came up with the idea of sending junk mail , may not even see it or have any clue as to what is going on
I don't know about other countries, but in New Zealand, if you post smoething in an envelope with no stamp or return address, the recipient gets a phone call from the post office telling them to come in and pick it up, on payment of the postage fee.
My mailbox is clearly marked "no circulars", so ANY junk mail I receive gets sent back to the sender in this way, causing lots of inconvenience cause someone has to drive out to the post office with 40 cents.
ASK SLASHDOT - Is it better to include a return address on the letter accompanying the returned glossy, so as not to give the impression of an "anonymous coward", or not to include it so that the sender has to be wary of ALL "no circulars" mailboxes?
"Anybody remotely interesting is mad, in some way or another" - Doctor Who
What's the heaviest thing that will fit into one of those small envelopes? The post office can't open it unless it's suspicious, like extra bulky. They can't claim it's not for its intended purpose if it fits neatly into the return envelope. So other than a chunk of thin metal, what else could be put into the envelope?
Developers: We can use your help.
It's economically viable and sensible to the companies because most of the mail is discarded by potential customers, some is returned with a positive response, and even less is returned angrily. If everyone who angrily threw out the mailings sent them back, companies would definitely cut back.
Developers: We can use your help.
As long as we're being silly.... Why not magnitized iron filings and a baggie of metal-bond epoxy.
--Jimmy has fancy plans; and pants to match.
I like to fill them in with the address of the company that sent them so that if they do actually get used the company ends up sending its own junkmail to itself. That's much more satisfying... Likewise, for unsolicited junk mail, write "return to sender" on it and drop it into the nearest mailbox - remember, postage covers a round trip! Also, for those of you who think that this just bothers the post office - remember that they created this problem by lowering their rates for bulk mailers thereby promoting it.
If you open a sealed envelope from the postal service, with someone else's address on it, you've committed a felony.
And in most municipalities, if you 'junkpick' or 'dumpster dive' you are stealing from the government, as trash set out on the curb becomes municipal property. (ask the people on the Classic Computers mailing list about this- they're very hostile to the idea that they can't dumpster dive for historical preservation of classic hardware, but the law is the law)
Hay thar.
Please don't do this. Sending the envelope back empty or with a note (which they won't care about, the envelope itself is message enough) does hurt the company. On the other hand, sending the letter back stuffed with something more nefarious like sand or glitter, or something rotting is just hurting the people who process the things. Know your enemy . . .
-Chu
If there is a return "card" or paperwork of sorts to put into a postage paid envelope, why not just fill out the form with their corporate office address? If everyone baned togeather to do this, they would be sending unsolicited junk mail to their own address! Give em a piece of their own medicine! Just imagine if that got out on bulk mail address lists! ;-)
My good sig is in the laundry
'Warning contains glue - please remove me from ALL mailing lists'
So you are telling an envelope machine to take you off the mailing list.
Since this is Slashdot, there should be a reasonable expectation of how this works:
Somewhere out there, let's say suburban Chicago, there is a Mainframe with giant database with your name in it. Ocassionally the main office in downtown chicago gets an order to send spam out to 'select' customers such as you. Someone in that big shiny skyscraper punches in the query which then goes into the mainframe's batch queue.
The mainframe chugs on this for a while and then uses a 9600 baud modem to call a bulk mail facility, lets say in southern Indiana. Their machines punch out thousands of identical letters and put all the proper markings on them to get the good rate from the post office. The post office duly delivers your letter.
You, the kind slashdotter who gets pissed to hell about banner ads and crappy credit card offers, pour glue and dogshit and lead into the return envelope, which then gets delivered to the mail processing facility, which is in (lets say), Kansas. Some poor minimum wage hicks spend all day cleaning their shit out their machine.
You might notice at this point that the guy cleaning the machine and (maybe) finding your envelope has no access to the original mainframe database. In fact, if you had accepted that credit card offer, your paperwork would have whisked to some other data entry facility a mile or two away, where the information would have been re-entered from scratch.
Unfortunately the UK's Mailing Preference Service is not backed by law - any company that is not part of the UK Direct Marketing Association is free to do what it wants. See http://www.dma.org.uk/thedma/cgi-bin/incorporate.p l?&path=../documents/prfro4izm.txt&user=flflflflfl fl
The Data Protection Act does seem to provide some degree of opt-out - every reputable company gives you the chance to opt out of mailings, but you have to hunt to find the tiny box on the form that you need to tick for this. You can't register your name directly with the data protection registrar, only with the DMA's service or individual companies to opt out of their mailings.
Mailing bricks and such is not only a pain for the USPS and of questionable impact on your junk mail inflow, it just sounds like a lot of work. If your goal is to get less junk mail, there are steps you can take that are easier, more effective, and have fewer innocent victims.
Many junk mailers belong to the Direct Marketing Association. The DMA maintains an opt-out list--you can tell them you don't want junk mail, and member organizations will stop sending it to you. I haven't tried the mail service (mail doesn't bother me) but I've registered with the DMA that I don't want telemarketing calls, and it worked great.
Even companies that haven't joined the DMA generally don't get much value from sending mail to people who hate it. If you write them a letter asking to be removed from their mailing list, that may do the trick.
If they persist, you can legally bar any non-governmental organization from sending you mail. There's a little trick to this: The law you have to use was designed to stop unsolicited pornographic mail, so if you want to stop getting mail from Microsoft you may have to claim with a straight face that Windows 2000 turns you on. But, you know, maybe it does. And in any case the post office is prohibited from deciding you're lying. (Also, that's a bad example--Microsoft isn't persistent enough to necessitate legal action.)
For more useful tips, see the JunkBusters page on how you can gain control of your mailbox.
Of course, none of these tactics will cause a major philosophical shift in the U.S.'s view of junk mail. If that's your goal, well, good luck, maybe your bricks will really make them think. But if you just want to get less junk mail, do it the easy way.
While sending irrelevant or heavy things hurts the (to you) offending company's bottom line, and provides an incentive for them to clean up their act, sending something rotting will only hurt the minimum wage mail opener who has to work three jobs to pay their children's medical bills.
You are mistaken. At such time, in *most* places, you put something in the garbage, it becomes the property of anyone willing to rummage through it.
I know where I live, once it goes out, anyone can grab it. (I almost got shot once trying to explain this to a dude who threw out a repairable gas grill, yet once I started to haul it off, threatened that either A) I pay him for it, or B) he call the cops. I said call em.. once it is out on the curb with other garbage intended for pickup, it is fair game.)
As far as the envelope with someone elses name on it.. I believe that falls under the same rules. Once it leaves the mailbox and is recieved by the recipient, it is out of the care of the US mail and is a piece of paper.
Go ask some of the celebrities whose trash is picked daily by the tabloids. If it were a felony and punishable, why are they still in business?
Maeryk
Feminine Protection? What is that? A chartreuse flame thrower?
Sometimes, I receive junkmail that is manually put in my mailbox (ie: no address on it, I receive the same as everyone else).
I love those. I fake the name and address of my best friends, and fill the card with bogus information. Quite pleasant. I also do at least one little error in the first/lastname/address, and tell my friends about it. Then, I have this warm feeling because I know that sometimes, somewhere, somebody is thinking of me.
Btw, when I order something by mail, or give my address for whatever purpose, I _always_ make a slight error in the address (for instance, there are no appartments where I live, so I add a random appartment number). This way, I know who sells my name/address to who. Fascinating, sometimes.
Cheers,
--fred
1 reply beneath your current threshold.
Ive just got off the phone with the 1800 Canada Post service line in Toronto. I spoke with a 'customer service rep'.
I posed this question:
"If sent a package (shoe box, brick or treebranch.) with a "Postage Gauranteed" or "no Stamp required" type envelope or postcard, what happens to the package?"
Her response "The package technically has 'insufficient postage' in this case. The package will goto an "Undeliverable Mail Center" where an authorized Agent of the Post Office will open the package in order to determine a Return Address. When none is found the package is then 'offered' to the addressee (our markatroid victims) - they can REFUSE to accept this package. If they do this: they are not responsible for the shipping. The package will return to our 'Undeliverable Mail Center" where it will remain for 6 months. If the package contents are of any value they are donated to charity; else they are destroyed."
Basically, if you send a package attached to one of these reply cards/envelops and the markatroids refuse (which they will once they are burned once or twice (as there is never any reason to send a package as a response to one of their mindless pitches)) Canada Post ends up 'holding the bag' for the cost of our efforts.
I realized afterwards that the above scenario may be dependant on the person sending a package through the system: What happens with an envelope full of sand? Something that would exceed the 'letter mail' weight limit and arrive 'postage due' (and mandatory payment by the markatroid scum). And unfortunately the same thing occurs. Basically each envelope/card has a unique ID which references a contract with some Markatroid BizCo. They agree to pay 0.47 (cost of a stamp) for each letter sent. Nothing more - and only letters can be sent. Anything else ends up at these UMCs.
Now, the kicker: I proposed to him "What would happen if people did this anyway. And Canada Post ended up receiving thousands of these packages that they were forced to transport the mail and incure the cost'. Could Canadian 'Postal Law' be used to force them to use the system above with MANY MANY MANY packages - this would make Canada Post want to change their system with regards to JunkMail Postage Paid letters (maybe raise prices causing junkmail of this type to decrease). This tact may be a successfull way to protest - and force Canada Post to change their JunkMailing policies...
So I phoned Legal Aid Ontario, who refered me to a University of Windsor Legal Clinic - the person I spoke with their told me that they were unaware of the relevant law (and could not technically give me any advice on the phone). It may be a Federal Law issue... she suggested I phone a Civil Liberties Professor she knew who may 'get a kick out of the idea' (i understood this to mean he was probably sympathetic to the idea). So - I will email him. My question will be in this vein: What is Canada Post obligated to do with the packages I put in the Post Office Box? Would they have to send them to these Authorized UMCs? Could they simply turn and pitch all these items at the nearest garbage pail - OR - would that violate some kind of law?
Ill add our email messages to the bottom of this post when they arrive.
It's a great website. See for yourself - they have an online form JunkBusters Declare which lets you specify which kind of mail you do NOT want to receive and send out the declaration to all the major marketing companies. In addition they talk about the legal procedure to opt-out of junk mail at the post office.
A litle regulation here, a little regulation there. Each tiny step to more government regulation is another foot down the path to pure socialism. If you oppose socialism, as I do, then anything which leans society to that eventual direction is something that I will oppose. While irritating, it takes me all of 5-10 seconds to sort my mail and throw the junk mail in the trash. Hardly worth freeing up 10 seconds of my life a day just to allow the government to control one more thing.
I think this quote is appropriate:
"The big question to ask about proposals for new laws and policies is not whether they sound reasonable, but what damage they can do when they are used unreasonably."
-Thomas Sowell
Let me be the 597th person to say:
Taco, you are a fucking idiot.
If you want no junk mail, sign up for the "no junk mail" list run by the Direct Marketing Association. This will have effects.
Sending back shit in envelopes just raises the prices on goods those companies sell, which are the goods you have to buy. Most junk mail comes from companies you do business with in some way - your bank, your credit card company, computer companies, etc. It does not make the companies lose money, it just makes you and anyone who does business with them lose money.
I suppose next you will throw another temper tantrum and decide that since local calls are free and you don't like your phone company, you'll attempt to screw them by calling your 2nd line with your 1st and leaving the line open and unattended all day.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
--
Of course, Abbie Hoffman suggested pasting bircks to business reply cards in his seminal work Steal This Book. But to kill too birds with one stone, try gluing the silly AOL CDs to them and then drop them in a blue postal box.
In most developed countries, no one opens a bunch of paper bills, writes paper checks, puts them in envelopes, and mails them. Almost all payments are handled electronically. The US is far behind Europe in this regard.
When you choose to enlist as a foot soldier, don't complain when the enemy decides to use its tanks.
So long as it is economically viable for the junk mailers to send out the stuff, so long as they're at least getting something out of it, then they will continue to do so.
So, if I can make your job so bad that you quit and no one else will take it, the jer^H^H^H"powers-that-be" will have to open their own mail. This will most likely be the point that it is no longer viable economically.
Get this straight. I wish to make your job as difficult as possible. I wish to make the telemarketer's job as difficult as possible. I wish to make the spammer's job as difficult as possible. Eventually, no one will take these jobs, and the world will be the better for it. These tactics are not the most effective tool, but it is the only way in which I can get you all to leave me alone.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
One of my coworkers said his grandfather used to send in the card saying 'Please don't mail me again and take me off your list.' and include half a cup of chili or jello or porriage. And because the card is covered in crap, they'd always have to enter it in by hand. He got quite a few calls back from people, and would just play senile from there.
'But I thought you boys could use a nice bowl of chili!'
--
Gonzo Granzeau
Gonzo Granzeau
"Nothing the god of biomechanics wouldn't let you into heaven for.." -Roy Batty
Remove one little regulation here, a little regulation there. Each tiny step to less government regulation is another foot down the path to pure anarchy. If you oppose total anarchy, as I do, then anything which leans society to that eventual direction is something that I will oppose.
Hey here is an idea why not judge each regulation on it's merits? Would that be too hard to deal with in your ideology?
War is necrophilia.
- Filling in fake information then paying whatever they are asking for in Monopoly Money.
- Send them Polaroids of yourself, ask them to write back.
- Two Words: AOL Discs
;)
- Scrawl "Help Me" on a post-it note, cover in ketsup, mail it.
I'm sure you guys have some good ones too....--The space between my ears was intentionally left blank--
Yeah, that will appease him when his fallen arches and aching back makes him come after you with an AK-47.
Why can't the US drop it's paranoid fear of government and implement such a system? It's not as though it will bring socialism crashing down on your head, is it? Is it?
--Anticipation of a New Lover's Arrival, The
THIS IS NOT TRUE!
At least, not in the US! True, it's a flat fee per envelope TO MAIL OUT (from the company) but there's also a running account between the company and the postal service for returned envelopes!
Look in the corner where the stamp would be and you'll see the account number I'm talking about!
I used to work in accounts payable for a large organization in LA that did tens of thousands of these per week - and I remember writing the check to the US Postal service for the BRE's (Bulk Return Envelopes) as well as to Pitney Bowes for the original letters mailed OUT.
-Ben
However, you can easily get yourself taken off the VAST majority of snail-mail lists with a single postcard to the Mail Preference Service. I have tried this from mutiple addresses and it works dramatically well. But it takes a month or two to kick in.
If you really care about getting less junk, simply send a postcard to:
P. O. BOX 9008
FARMINGDALE, NY 11735
One of the reasons this works so well is that the service is run for the Direct Marketing Association by ADP, the company that does more payroll than any other. The remove-list is offered for free to anyone who asks for it, all because the service is mandated and enforced my law in some fairly large municipalities and a few states.
Please mod this way up!
I found http://www.improbable.com/airchives/paperair/volum e6/v6i4/postal-6-4.html on Memepool. It details just what you can get away with when (ab)using the USPS.
--
Why can't I moderate something "Wrong" or at least "Grossly Misinformed"?
There is an important difference between junk mail and spam, and that it that is that junk mail costs the sender real physical dollars. The stuff you recieve in the mail are mostly legitimate. Its easy to filter out. It only takes time if you let it. Finally, the costs of junk mail is used by the USPS to subsidize acutual postage.
Would nay of you be willing to pay 75 cents for a stamp in order to get no junk mail? This is a real dollar issue, and I have no problem with junk mail at all. I find that the best credit card offers are junk mailed to me. I get menus to my local chinese restaurants. Its a good thing.
Contrast this with SPAM, or Unsolicited Commercial E-mail (UCE). This costs the sender nothing. It is frequently fraudulent, illegal, or 'scammy'. Some garbage about buying a stock or checking out a web page. The problem with the SPAM is that it doesn't cost anything! I wish to god that there was someway I could stuff a brick in a return envelope to every SPAMMER out there, but I can't so I make due with filters.
I am not aware of the technology required, but it seems to me the only real way to eliminated SPAM is to develop some sort of universal validated return address. Like caller-id, it would be optional, and like caller-id, you could block messages from those who don't disclose a valid return address.
But please don't terrorize those junk mailers, they are an annoyance that causes more good than harm.
--Pete
'he felt himself splitting into two halfs, one part soft, one part hard, one part warm, and one part cold, one part trembling, and one part not trembling, each half grinding against the other."--Ray Bradbury
www.avacal.com -- the home page of pete shaw
Now stick that on the inside of the envelope, and fold the top over - the idea being that when the junkmailers automatic enveloper-cutter comes across it, the contents of the envelope literally gums up the works.
If you put on the back, 'Warning contains glue - please remove me from ALL mailing lists', it'll also prompt them to actually read the envelopes before putting them in their systems. You did warn them, so you can't be held responsible, and you also asked to be removed from the mailing list as well...
Richy C.
While it is annoying for us to have to deal with that, the powers that be 'round here still send out the same volume of mail - no, they've actually INCREASED the volume of mail - as before. We who actually open the mail and read the complaints feel your pain, but there isn't much we can do except put them in a file and try in vain to convince the people in charge that their mail campaign is a disastrous failure.
So long as it is economically viable for the junk mailers to send out the stuff, so long as they're at least getting something out of it, then they will continue to do so. And the sheer amount of mail, through the USPS or through your e-mail, is a testament to the basic fact that such mailings are, against all sense, effective.
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
You may say I'm a dreamer, but I'm not the only one
-John Lennon
If you want to get off the Credit Reporters' lists, (and stop being "Pre Approved for this new fancy credit card!") here's the number for Trans Union:
. asp
1-888-5OPT-OUT
Call them, then listen to the options:
"Press 1 to be removed from marketing lists for 2 years"
(forgot what 2 was)
"Press 3 to be removed from marketing lists *permanently*"
Isn't it funny how they hide the "permanent" option at the end?
From http://www.transunion.com/General/MarketingOptOut
"If you want your name and address removed from all mailing lists offered by the main consumer credit reporting agencies: Trans Union, Experian, Equifax and Innovis, call 888-5OPTOUT (888-567-8688), or write to the following address:
Trans Union LLC's Name Removal Option
P.O. Box 97328
Jackson, MS 39288-7328
Requests should include the following information:
First, middle, and last names (including Jr., Sr., III)
Current address
Previous address (if you've moved in the last six months)
Social Security Number
Date of birth
Signature
If you opt-out, you will no longer appear on direct marketing lists offered by these four credit reporting agencies. However, you may continue to receive commercial mailings based on lists from other sources. "
If you select the "permanent" option, they will send you a form to sign and return. This has the benefit of *proving* you requested privacy, and makes it much easier to take them to court if they happen to "forget" what your preferences were.
Happy Hunting!
Most junk mail I get comes from companies with which I do business in some way.. Usually, it's credit card companies or software companies of some kind.
The junk mail is paid for in my fees, and in the price of my software.
Sending back 'postage paid' envelopes is the same sort of near-sighted temper tantrum as openning the windows in your apartment and turning up the heat - because it's 'included' in your rent. It's the same as putting a telemarketter on hold, rather than just hanging up. It's like leaving your TV on all day, because you pay for cable 24/7, but can't be there to watch it.
If you want to protest, call the company, or at least include a letter asking them to switch to a 'solicited mailings only' scheme. Otherwise you're just wasting your own (and others' like you) money.
The REAL jabber has the /. user id: 13196
The REAL jabber has the user id: 13196
What you do today will cost you a day of your life