Slashdot Mirror
Review: Star Wars Episode III
The special effects question is easy: This is quite simply one of the most gorgeous films ever made. Everything is superb. Lucas has an incredible visual sense; he is a truly visual filmmaker, and his images hit home, are beautifully executed, and are technically stunning. Of course, we really and truly expect perfection here from Lucas, so this may not seem like news.
You are deceiving yourself. Lucas has frankly outdone what I thought possible. My jaw was on the floor the entire time.
But what about those tattered remains?
I myself am not a huge Star Wars fan. I enjoy the films, but I wasn't raised on them, didn't see any of them (except Episode II) in the theaters. I was one of those kids who knew Darth Vader was Luke's father before I had heard of Star Wars, because I saw the parodies before I saw the originals.
I will say this now. Episode III proves that "A New Hope" was a mistake. A freak accident of success, because Lucas seems incapable of doing fun action. How he managed to make "A New Hope" a delightful, playful, fundamentally fun movie is beyond me. Because when Episode III starts, it falls flat on its face, continuing the sad attempt in Episode's I and II to make the kind of joyous space opera that, of all six, only "A New Hope" managed to be.
Lucas however, can do myth very, very well. And once Lucas gets around to telling the Myth Of Anakin's Fall, the real story that Episode I and II have been leading to, everything works. Here we have the George Lucas of "The Empire Strikes Back" and "The Return of the Jedi." Hayden Christiansen goes from a pretty (if ineffectual) actor to being the tragic Darth Vader, and you believe. Darth Sidious is the villain that Darth Vader was in the original trilogy. Better perhaps, more sinister. The fall of Anakin is completely and utterly believable. I was shocked. I understood why he fell to the Dark Side. It's called the freakin' Dark Side for goodness sake! How could you freakin' fall?
Because of a tempter. Because of dark dreams. Because of love.
I don't want to spoil anything for those of you who, like me, went in not knowing exactly how it all happened. Some have always known the story, and are just watching it play out; some of us have willfully ignored the spoilers, and waited.
But I will say this for those who do know what happens. When order 66 is given, my breath was taken away. When the final battles occur, I was truly fearful. In other words, he doesn't screw it up.
I'm going to see it again.
Jamie also saw Revenge of the Sith, but it doesn't seem like he saw quite the same film. His thoughts:
I heard it might be good, so I tried to like it. I really did. Revenge of the Sith is one of the worst movies I've seen recently. It's Battlefield Earth bad.
It's not just that when Lucas tries to "do" myth he generates a world populated by generics. Nor is it just that the plot is absurdly thin (the movie exists to showcase the galaxy's most complete betrayal ever, brought on by two dreams and a promise from someone who couldn't be more obviously untrustworthy if he were twirling a mustache).
This movie is terrible first, because Lucas writes unbearable dialogue, especially in romantic scenes. And since the motivator is romantic love, we get a lot of bad lines. Remember "I don't like sand"? Episode III one-ups that. The climactic emotional moment, I swear to God, is a rip-off of Homer Simpson.
And second, Hayden Christensen is a lousy actor. There, I said it. Even with the silly script, Ewan McGregor is fine, and Natalie Portman brings life to a few scenes, but Anakin gets not a single believable moment. Even when all he has to do is look sideways, he's more fake than a losing high school forensics team. He's wooden like community-college Acting 101. I could go on.
Best I can say is that Jar-Jar doesn't speak. The special effects are there, and since they cover every square inch of the screen constantly, you will get many per unit time per dollar. If you like that kind of thing, you're going to go see it anyway, so enjoy.
Thanks go to erikharrison for his take on the movie.
Seriously, put a robot in the hangar bay, it plugs in, then NETWORK OWNED! you can open any jail cell, tell exactly where the prisoner are, open any door and even control the elevators.
The Empire should look into using firewalls.
... an interesting quote from the author of Darthside:
When we were kids we used to "play Star Wars", which is a kind of no-fee intellectual property union we entered unto with Lucasfilm whereby our imaginations were ignited in exchange for our fealty as future consumers.
-- i drop mine in braille so you blind cats can read me
This new stuff looks pretty but feels like I'm in a rendered video game. The colors are too pastel and not real enough. In some ways we've gone backwards going to digital. I'm sure it will get better, but it feels as if we are going backwards IMHO.
I am both a Star Wars geek and a performance/theatre geek, a dangerous combination which leads to over-analysis. Since seeing Episode III earlier today, I've been thinking a lot about how the presentation of Episodes I through III alter Episodes IV-VI. "Star Wars," as a single story told through film (ignoring books/videogames/comics/fan films/etc), now functions in six episodes tied together by numerous characters and over-arcing story threads. So how does this single narrative affect how Episodes IV-VI should be viewed?
For example, one of the great things about Ep. IV-VI was discovering Luke and Leia's relationship and that Vader is their father. The problem is, this only works as a dramatic issue for the audience (obviously it still works for the characters) if the audience doesn't know those things going in. Now, it's not an unreasonable assumption to say that everybody seeing Star Wars (even for the first time) already knows those things. But as an artistic work (granting the "Star Wars" films the status of 'art') Lucas removed a large dramatic moment of the story as a whole. Likewise, the way Lucas has set up the over-arcing 6-ilogy (sexilogy?) now places more emphasis on Anakin Skywalker's rise, fall, and redemption (and in some ways, parallel journeys by Obi-Wan and Yoda) than about the adventures of Luke, Leia, etc in IV-VI.
What does the Slashdot crowd think? Ignoring the actual presentation of Episodes I-III, was the very idea flawed, and does it do damage to the structure of Eps. IV-VI? Does the new over-arcing story cary enough value to disregard the problems it creates? Am I just over-thinking this way too much?
-Trillian
The main site has a lot of Star Wars stuff on the front page: http://www.decentfilms.com/index.html
An interesting excerpt:
To Harrison: It wasn't THAT good.
to Jamie: It wasn't THAT bad.
I saw it. It was worth the price of admission, a soda and nachos. More importantly, it was worth my TIME, which to me is infinately more valuable.
"What has Lucas done to the possibly tattered remains of my childhood?"
Possibly? I take it you missed the first two stops on the Jar Jar Binks Ruination Tour?
I'll catch "Sith" when it comes out on video.
While I thought the special effects were astounding in Episode III, I felt something was sorely lacking with the physics when applied to humans. It seemed as if he didn't even try to make it seem realistic.
For example, when Obi Wan and Anakin were fighting Dooku near the beginning, Dooku decided to do a flip off of a balcony type thing to get to the lower level. This looked horrible. There was no acceleration invovled in his fall, and his flip randomly sped up slightly while in mid air. Of course, he was a Jedi master, so he can probably do that, but I really doubt they had that in mind when creating that scene. Did anyone else notice examples of this?
4, 5, 1, 2, 3, 6
So that after "Empire", at the end of which Vader reveals he's Luke's father, we take a detour and get to the back-story: where he came from, the source of the Rebellion and the Empire, and his fall to the dark side.
It's all leading up to the climactic finish where the prequels allow us to better appreciate the scope of the triumph: the Sith destroyed, republican government reinstated, and Anakin redeemed.
This is what Lucas had to say about Yoda, when they introduced him in The Empire Strikes Back:
That was like a real leap
beacuse if that puppet had not worked
the whole film would have been down the tubes
it just, you know woulda been a disaster, it would've been a silly little muppet...
the whole movie would've collapsed under the weight of it.
(quote from the bonus feature DVD in the original trilogy box set)
Now, apply this quote to what Hayden Christensen has done to Darth Vader, one of the most memorable and recognizable villains in all of cinema history, and what do you get?
Now browse at threshold -1, and look for Score -1:Troll. AH, there's all the posts supporting copyright!
This place truly amazes me sometimes.
Is it me, or is the Death Star shown at the end of Episode III way too complete? At the beginning of Episode IV, there is some doubt about whether the station is fully operational, but there is a full skeleton of the Death Star visible at the end of III. Surely this is a mistake, just for continuity's sake. The DS could not have taken 16-18 years (as long as it takes Luke and Leia to grow up) to complete!
Lucas doesn't realize that just because you have new technologies available, they are going to add to the storytelling. So we have new high-resolution timers? That doesn't mean we want to see counters all over the action and getting in the way of the actors faces! We didn't need big counters in the original trilogy. Anyone that paid to see this in a theater must feel terribly deceived.
This might be just wishful thinking from someone who sat through A New Hope forcing myself to watch it... and only mildly enjoying the next two. Eps I and II felt like an excuse for special effects, with only Obi Wan being a character I was attached to, but episode III - the beginnings of darth vader, the first things he does as Ol' Evil One... that's worth seeing I think.
I'm not a huge fan, probably not even a fan fullstop, but I find some parts of the movies attractive, and vader is *it*.
but it is amazing how , until after i came out of the theater and looked at my watch, i did not realize that it was more than 2 hours!!
i felt like i had just gone in . Thats a sure sign of a good movie;
Also i have never seen that particualr theater so full except for the incredibles;
one thing lucas does really well is not lavish the viewer's attention on unnecessary details and effects; everything gels well and tells or helps tell the story;
awesome!!
I have two kids, under age 5. Of course most of us saw the trilogies in the order 4-5-6-1-2-3. When the kids are old enough, should we maintain that order or do we show it to them in 1-2-3-4-5-6 order?
The reason we had to watch it in our order is obvious, but do the benefits we had in watching the films in that order cascade to the younger generations? What order will people watch them in five or ten years from now?
Luke immediately resolves to avoid the fate of Darth Vader and turns off his light saber. Luke then looks at the emperor and refuses to join him.
Did George Lucas provide a scene (in "Revenge of the Sith") where Darth Vader's own right hand was sliced off? If the answer is "yes", then Lucas has remained true to the original trilogy.
"Such insight, you have. The first steps to Jedi Knight, you have taken." observers Yoda.
Well, then, I dare say you are not qualified to comment on the tattered memories angle, compared to many of us. Due to a third world childhood, Star Wars was the first moving picture I saw, at 10. It had quite an impact. Lucas is now my arch nemesis.
"A language that doesn't affect the way you think about programming, is not worth knowing" - Alan Perlis
didn't like it.
I knew before going in, from what other people told me and from what I read online, that the acting was very bad, to the point of laughing during drama scenes, but I went to see it anyway just for the effects and the lightsaber battles.
Generally speaking I found the lightsaber duels too cluttered, without much definition in each move sequence.
A Darth Maul vs Qui-Gon Jinn style of fight choreography should have been used... IMO it's the best lightsaber duel of them all.
"Only a sith deals in absolutes" ... isn't this contradictory to itself?
Both of these reviews are terrible. They're worse than the movie. See the movie; it's good. It doesn't redeem Lucas's transgressions against the original trilogy when he Special-Ed'ed them, and it doesn't quite make up for the first two episodes of the new trilogy, but standing on its own, it's pretty decent. Not a perfect movie by any means, but no more flawed than either of the three original films.
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
Please report to the nearest MPAA reprogramming station!
They closed them all. The MPAA couldn't afford the upkeep because nobody is paying to see movies anymore.
'Star Wars' earns $108.5 million in 1st US weekend http://www.imdb.com/chart/
I found that the film lacked an epic quality wrt SFX. There were few scenes of large-scale destruction, no cruisers slowly crunching into cities, that kind of thing.
i think 1-3 alter the viewing of 4-6 in a pretty negative way, and not just because someone who started with ep. 1 might give up there and skip all the others! i personally think that the narrative will be strongest for future audiences if they watch the films in order of production- 4-6, then 1-3. that way, nothing is spoiled for the (dramatically better) original trilogy. also in this order, the original trilogy won't be out-classed visually by the prequels. i thought ep. III was fantastic- on par with the original trilogy. however, i think that much of its power plays on the fact that the audience already knows the future of anakin and obi-wan; it would probably not work nearly as well with an audience unfamiliar with the original trilogy. so yeah- take the story in the order it was produced.
SPOILER WARNING
What annoyed me most was the inconsistancy. There were some moments that linked to the original trillogy rather well - Obi-Wan's "so uncivilised" comment about blasters for instance. But there are other aspects that made no sense.
Chewie and Yoda were apparently aquaintances and yet the Wookie never mentioned this to Han, or if he did, despite the trust between the two of them, Han didn't consider it to be a reason to believe in the Force.
Perhaps more grating however was the death of Padme - it was utterly unnecessary, Vader did not know if she was dead or not and so Palpatine could easily have lied and told him she was. More than that though, it contradicted Leia's recollections in Jedi - where she remembers her "real mother." It has been suggested that she remembers her through the force, but then, why doesn't Luke?
Of course the other irritation with the film was the godawful dialogue. The "no I love you" "no I love you" scenes between Anakin and Padme, Vader lifting his head to the skies and shouting "NOOOOOOO!" Thankfully, Threepio's pun chip does seem to have been removed, and there's a dispute over whether or not Jar Jar spoke at all. (If he did it was only something along the lines of "excuse me")
The effects were great though - aside from the lizard thing.
Tomorrow, I may eat another house plant
Meese luuvs Jar Jar!!
For some reason there is a large timestamp running across the film. I guess Lucas wanted to add an air of suspense with that effect.
__________
|rip/\/\aster
Warning no real spoilers below*
.
*Anakin skywalker becomes darth vade
*Anakin/vader is luke and leias father
*luke and leia are twins
*chancilor palpatine is the empiror
*Palpatine is Darth sidious
*Yoda and Obi-wan survive
*Senator Organa adopts leia
*Yoda dosnt kill the empiror
*Alot of jedi get killed
*The republic ends
*Obi-wan beats darth vaderv
*Palpatine is a sith lord
*Amidala is pregnant
Honestly , my faith was restored in lucas after seeing the film , it was honestly a very enjoyable movie
The only bit that bugged me were the romantic scenes which are not really lucas's strong point
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
I think i can sum up the acting and the dialogue in one word:
Darth Vader: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!
Worst movie ever!
What has Lucas done to the possibly tattered remains of my childhood?
Yeesh, I'm sick of people bitching that Lucas ruined their childhood fantasies with his subsequent movies.
If a few hours of film constituted the emotional highlight of your childhood, I'd say you have bigger issues to worry about than Lucas or his imaginary universe.
well done young jedi!
/. comment box.
my take on the film is at my LJ; at almost 2000 words, it's too long for a
if the answer isn't violence, neither is your silence / freedom of expression doesn't make it alright
You mean like these which ARE 5 insightful? http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=150103&cid=125 83803
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=150103&cid=125 84276
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=150103&cid=125 84378
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=150103&cid=125 83813
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=150103&cid=125 83967
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=150103&cid=125 83997
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=150103&cid=125 83925
It is a 3.5 hour movie. It has 1.5 hours of light sabre fights, .5 hours of bad interpersonal dialogue, and .5 hours of interesting story.
As to the effects, the effects I enjoyed the most were the call backs to EP IV. When Jimmy Smits walks down the exact same hallway that we first see Darth Vader come walking down in EP IV, I got a huge smile on my face. The big plastic buttons everywhere, it was great.
I enjoyed the movie immensely, but find it incredibly easy to be critical of it.
(the fact that I got a refill on my 5 gallon bucket of soda didn't help my impression of it being long)
...without David Brin's latest review.
Talking about this movie after the fact made me realize that I liked the story of it. Captured the imagination, so to speak. As for the execution of this last movie, I like to think of it as good cheese. I laughed quite a bit. The emperor was hilarious when he bent bat shit, laughing like a loon while fighting yoda, and equally loony tunes when he killed Mace. And of course, the excellent "NOOOOOOO" from vader made me lose my cookies. Good cheese. That's all I can really say about it.
On an aside, I dislike the term "visual filmmaker". All filmmaking is visual whether the action is a talking head or dancing nun. In such light, Lucas is no different from any other director as far as I am concerned.
one clue to this phenomenon is samuel l. jackson's less than stellar performances in episodes 1-3...
Something I found really odd was when Anakin says "if you're not with me, you're my enemy" and Obi-Wan replies "only a Sith deals in absolutes".
This is obviously an anti-Bush remark, but it doesn't fit at all in the movie. First of all, it's quite clear that by that point they are already mortal enemies, even Obi-Wan had already said they had no path left but to try to kill each other. Second, the "only a Sith deals in absolutes" is nonsense, especially considering lines such as these:
OB1: The emperor is evil!
DV: From my point of view the Jedis are evil!
OB1: then you are lost!
I liked the subtle (and unintended, since the plot was written in the 70s) critcism of ep2 and 3 to the current political madness in America, but that line was lousy.
My wife and I went to see the movie yesterday. Here are my impressions.
It was the best one of the third trilogy. I would put it on par with Return of the Jedi. The special effects, lightsaber duels and space combat scenes were great. I've gotta say, the CG was pretty good, I didn't even notice the Count Dooku action scenes were CG.
Yes, the acting was pretty bad, even from Portman and MacGregor. The one possible exception to this was Ian McDiarmid as Palpatine. Did anybody really believe Obi-wan when he said "I can't watch any more" after he watched Vader killing jedi on the security hologram? Was Amidala convincing when she told Vader he was breaking her heart? That was highschool play quality acting there.
My wife liked the movie, and she wanted to watch the original Star Wars again when we came home. Say what you will about the acting in the old movies, but there was a chemistry there that just didn't exist in Ep. 1-3. Nobody compares to the cocksure Han Solo or sharp-tongued Princess Leia. Even the actors that played Uncle Owen and Aunt Baru did a better job than anybody in Ep. 1-3 did.
The movie had a darker tone, about the only laughs I got were when Amidala told Anakin she was pregnant, and he was like "uh..., uh...., oh yeah, that' uh... great" (though I don't think that was supposed to be funny), and when the wookies were swinging from vines, howling like Tarzan.
Aside from the acting, the only thing I didn't care for was at the end when Palpatine was showing Vader the Death Star. It sure did take them a long time to build that (nearly 20 years!), and the CG Grand Moff Tarkin was pretty cheesy. That's one of those scenes that could be left out and probably made the movie better.
Still, the bad doesn't outweigh the good, and I liked it overall. I'd give it a 2.5 out of 4.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
Spending the year studying in Barcelona, I ended up seeing Episode III dubbed to Spanish, and I truly and sincerely believe this made the experience better.
Most noticeable was the improvement in the scenes with Anakin/Vader, because Jamie is exactly right - Christensen in an awful actor. And much of this awfulness lies in the horribly wooden and monotonous delivery of every single line of dialogue, which means having it replaced by an experienced Spanish voice actor is a real blessing.
But the improvements weren't limited to Anakin's lines, and my theory is that this can be explained by the extreme use of blue/green-screen photography in these films. The actors are used to delivering their lines while at least in some sense being there in the environment of the film's story, and end up floundering when forced to work with the nothingness of a green screen. The voice-actors that do the dubbing, on the other hand, have years and years of experience in putting emotion in their lines without any sort of environment except the recording studio.
Maybe those of you in the right parts of the US can take a trip across the border to Mexico and see it there? Do they even dub films there?
-- If no truths are spoken then no lies can hide --
> The most poignant moment in "Return of the Jedi" occurs when Luke looks at his right hand just after slicing off the mechanized right hand of Darth Vader.
because the mechanized stump reminds him of his own injury. it's a throwback to the previous film, not the previous trilogy.
> Did George Lucas provide a scene (in "Revenge of the Sith") where Darth Vader's own right hand was sliced off? If the answer is "yes", then Lucas has remained true to the original trilogy.
anakin's own right hand is long gone. dooku took it off between the shoulder and the elbow in ep 2.
if the answer isn't violence, neither is your silence / freedom of expression doesn't make it alright
... but then again, I'm apparently one of the few who liked episodes I and II, as well.
Yes, Lucas writes cheesy dialog, especially where it concerns romance. Some of his characters (Jar-Jar, anyone?) are annoying as well.
But the actual story, of the Republic's slide into tyranny, is far better than most have made it out to be.
Watching Palpatine's moves to gain ever more power in the first two episodes really made those movies for me. The ending of episode II, showing Palpatine overlooking the troops boarding the ships - that simply sent shivers up my spine.
I have to say that I liked episode III for much the same reasons. Was the space battle breathtaking? Sure. So were the lightsaber battles - but that's about it. Watching Palpatine's ambitions finally come out into the open, and watching Anakin's fall - THAT made episode III for me.
Could it have been better? Sure. Nothing's perfect. But the story being told is what did it for me - I can ignore the stupidity.
In VI, Han says, "I love you." Then, Leia responds, "I know."
Admittedly, I am looking at the matter from the viewpoint of a person who appreciates "Macbeth" and "Romeo and Juliet" by William Shakespeare. Nonetheless, the subplot of Han's interaction with Leia is important. It is part of the chemistry among the characters in IV, V, and VI. That chemistry (and good acting) is sorely missing in I and II.
After watching IV, V, and VI, you will be prepared to stomach the lead-weighted disappointment of I and II. The grand finale will be III.
That's because all those support copyright are plants by THE MAN, man. Don't you get it, they're listening to everything we do man, it's like a total conspiracy, they're even reading this post man! Oh god they're everywhere...
I'm interested in this topic. I'd be interested in the article/link
I believe it is in the Clone Wars, between II and III. So hopefully, in III, he at least explains it.
My Photography - http://ian-x.com
The Deathlings (comic) - http://thedeathlings.com
Being a VFX artist myself, I felt the movie was extremely lacking in certain respects. The first battle scene was amazing, without any doubt. However, Lucas, for some reason, put way too many blue screen shots towards the middle and end, where he relied heavily on CG imagery to back landscape shots.
For example, Palpatine's room had a backplate entirely out of CG, and at times, the room itself changed from a live action plate to a CG plate when him and Yoda were fighting.
I felt a lot of it was just too synthetic. I hate to say this as a VFX artist. It would have been nice to see more sets and a more hands-on approach towards the overall look and feel --It was just too clean.
As another example, when Obi-wan and Anakin are fighting Count Dooku in that room, it was a in a movie set where everything was constructed except the back drop of the space battle. This was a similar set up that they had on Return of the Jedi during the fight between Luke and Anakin.
CG has to have a job of supporting the movie, not making an integration between CG scenes and live action scenes.
Don't get me wrong, I've seen great CG/live integration pieces. However, they were great because they were subtle and supported the concepts and ideas.
Why not have put the confrontation between Anakin and Obi wan earlier in the movie, perhaps having him not turn, but flee after killing Mace (Sam Jackson's character). Then Obi wan and him fight, producing a similar result as in the movie. Then perhaps having him storm the Jedi temple as the robotic darth vader from the other movies? It would have been a lot more believable if they had kept him away from being a mass murderer until he was burned and behind the famous mask. It also would have been bad ass seeing darth vader from the original trilogy storming in front of an army of storm troopers.
Laboratree - Scientific collaboration based on OpenSocial.
After seeing Episode III, I guess we have to start waiting VII.. Seriously, are the episodes from VII to IX ever going to be written/made?
... I already can't wait for "Revenge of the Seveth".
It was bad enough before that we had to wait 3 years to find out what happend to Han after he was frozen, but with this schedule, we would have to wait 12 years!
Did George Lucas provide a scene (in "Revenge of the Sith") where Darth Vader's own right hand was sliced off? If the answer is "yes", then Lucas has remained true to the original trilogy.
No. But he did in Episode II (the duel with Count Dooku at the end). I don't think that it's much of a spoiler to say that Anakin/Vader definitely gets messed up at the end of Episode III, losing all sorts of parts and eventually requiring the Big Black Suit.
No no, they were too busy posting duplicate stories to go see it.
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
Hayden Christensen graduated from the William Shatner school of melodrama. With honors.
See http://www.khaaan.com/ for further explanation.
SPOILER! At the end C3PO's memopry is ordered to be wiped, but R2's is not - as C3PO can communicate with R2 in IV - VI then surely R2 would have provided the ultimate spoilers to C3PO in a New Hope?
Lucas however, can do myth very, very well. And once Lucas gets around to telling the Myth Of Anakin's Fall, the real story that Episode I and II have been leading to,
y th
Reminds me of the documentary Bill Moyers produced a few years ago about Joseph Campbell. The title of the doc was called "Joseph Campbell and The Power of Myth." Joey wrote a ton of material about mythology and how it shaped mens minds over the course of history. Fascinating guy, But the third or fourth video in this documentary, Bill Moyers travels the the George Lucas darth-vader ranch in California or where it was. Apparently Lucas was a student of Campbell, or least an avid fan of his writing. Lucas spent a good while talking about the inspiration Campbell provided him.
Here's a link to mininova, some people seeding The Power of Myth in audiobook format... not sure if that includes the George Lucas interview though.
http://www.mininova.org/search/?search=power+of+m
"To hail Revenge of the Sith as a satisfying bridge to a classic is not just playing a game of the Emperor's New Clothes, it's an insult to what the original accomplished. To paraphrase Padme: This is how truth dies -- to thunderous applause."
(spoilers maybe below) Honestly, although I have mixed feelings about this trilogy, I think that this movie produces a tragic sadness that hovers over the original trilogy. Anakin wasn't just an asshole who turned to the darkside, his turn may not have totally been his fault both the sith and the jedi share the blame. I think that makes darth vader a sad tragic character instead of the evil demon he is made out to be in the OT.
Laboratree - Scientific collaboration based on OpenSocial.
Lucas knows that you really aren't supposed to start with Eps 1-3. If that was the case, he would have told that story first (if this is all part of his great plan from the start). He expects people to see Eps 4-6, and then 1-3. It's like watching a movie where they plot is out of sequence and you get the pieces to the puzzle as you go. Episode number IS NOT viewing number.
CC Licensed Serialized Story and Podcast: Ingenioustries
Both Anakin/Vader and his mentor Obi-Wan die to save Luke, and Luke goes on to help save the galaxy and as you say, develop a less stuffy Jedi ethic. It seems as though any prophecy should have been more interested in predicting Luke than Anakin.
Then again, the Oracle in The Matrix told Neo what he needed to hear. If the prophesy was truly about Anakin, that may have been what was needed to bring about the desired chain of events. But that would imply some interesting things about the creator or source of the prophecy -- was the prophecy "merely" a matter of foreseeing the future, or was it a case of manipulating destiny by an entity with godlike powers who could foresee all outcomes? Either way, what does it say about free will in the Star Wars universe?
the special effects were mostly great but there were aggregious lapses, like the platform that falls on obi-wan kenobi (looks really fake) which knocks him over but then leaves him fine
the opening was really boring. there, i said it
so if the samuel jackson character didn't suddenly act very anti-jedi-like with palpatine, anakin probably wouldn't have attacked him, which probably wouldn't have led to his switch to the darkside .. right?
no one noticed when anakin stopped wearing brown and started wearing black. isn't that weird?
To say that Lucas is an excellent visual film maker is to be too broad. He cannot compete with Coppola, Kubrick, or Fellini. Lucas is an excellent art director, but mediocre to terrible in every other department. His blueprint for the Star Wars universe, their ships, uniforms, etc. are extremely well done and have been amazingly influential and rightly so.
However, the cinematography on A New Hope is mediocre and rather straightforward. Compared to The Empire Strikes Back the cinematography is trash. Lucas has taken a turn from mediocre to terrible however with the release of the newest 3 star wars. The editing transitions (wipes, constantly) are amateurish looking even, and the universe looks cartoonish. I havn't seen Sith yet, but the two that preceeded it lacked any of the gravitas of the originals. They look like crappy fakery.
Photos.
And one more thing (perhaps this one shouldn't be modded up to keep it under the radar a little) I wonder if it's better to watch new, digitally enhanced 4,5,6 or the originals. The only problem with latter...I can't find them anywhere. Not even on the net. Well...I can, actually, but only in the form of DVDR ripped from LD. Care to message me (yeah, I'm in a place where MPIAA can kiss my ass...but I reckon you wouldn't like to post links) with 1cd xvid compressed versions? (128kbps download & 5GB of limit per month...)
One that hath name thou can not otter
Storm
OK, The medical tech is good enough so that Anakin has a cyborg arm, and the general in comment of the droids is little more that a heart, some lungs, and a head surrounded by a robot body. Despite ALL of this tech, Anakin thinks that the Padme will die during child birth unless the dark side power could save her???
WTF, just have her get a c-section.
Jesus used to be my co-pilot, but we crashed in the mountains and I had to eat him.
Don't forget C3P0, who can talk his way through systems in 6 million dialects -- including the binary langauge of Load Lifters!
"It's the height of ridiculousness to say for those 9 lines you get hundreds of millions."
I watched the "new" versions of Episodes IV to VI, and I was appauled. The ending, where Obi-wan, Yoda, and Darth was altered! WTF. So you have, old Obi-wan, old Yoda, and young Darth? WTF!
I found most all the "effects" added to distort the movie. Thank GOD my parents have it on Laser Disc. I must transfer it to DVD ASAP.
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
You know that bit where Obi-Wan says "It's like...she's lost the will to live"? She wasn't the only one.
Is it me, or is the Death Star shown at the end of Episode III way too complete? At the beginning of Episode IV, there is some doubt about whether the station is fully operational, but there is a full skeleton of the Death Star visible at the end of III. Surely this is a mistake, just for continuity's sake. The DS could not have taken 16-18 years (as long as it takes Luke and Leia to grow up) to complete!
;-)
That skelletal structure was built by the trade federation's union workers. Then the Emperor had Darth Vader kill all the union leaders, so that led to a series of massive strikes who united under the rebel alliance.
In the meantime, the Death Star project had to proceed using off-sector subcontractors, and out of system construction contractors are notorious for delaying completion, double-billing, especially on a fat government contract like that.
Wait until you have a house built: you'll learn the real meaning of "continuity"
You can't take the sky from me...
No Jar Jar, No dumb C3PO comments, No alien animal farts, No alien lounge singers == big improvement. I thought that while the scenes between anakin and padme were laughable, the scenes between anakin and palpatine (sp?) where excellent. Obi wan was right on as well, as was yoda. Anakin had some moments of good acting. The story is compelling and the in my opinion, all in all, the bad scenes are forgiven.
Laboratree - Scientific collaboration based on OpenSocial.
I support copyright distribution rights but not 100% complete control of when and how I watch, listen, view, or enjoy a copyrighted work. If copyright violations were the ONLY issue at hand, I would understand your point. IMHO, the media companies want complete control beyond what copyright laws give them and want the easiest method (ie laws) to blanket the entire population with controls disguised as copyright protections when a lot of technical people can see there is more then the copyright laws that is being controlled. DMCA comes to mind here as well as many attempted bills like the copy bit in digital TV that take away your rights to copyrighted material. Heck, look at some of the one sided statitics the RIAA/MPAA/BSA put out about how much money they are losing due to copyright violations in an attempt to get these laws and new regulations passed or expanded. Ever hear of payola? Price fixing? How about designated play lists? Basically the way I view the whole thing is the media companies want laws and power to restrict more then just your ability to redistubute their copyrighted material without authorization. There is way more to the story then your one liner about a collective group of people on a forum against copyright. The only thing I find amazing (to use your words), is your lack of ability to see the real issues that are frustrated with.
Your story sounds interesting. I'd like to read it. Perhaps you could post it to OSNews or OSViews, or someplace like that.
It's a shame that R2D2 lost so much functionality in the ~twenty years between episodes III and IV.
And why oh why do you need to hand a droid a walkie talkie to communicate with it? I mean c'mon, R2D2 and C3P0 can't communicate wirelessly without also piping it to their built in speakers? I realize that a lot of the verbalizing of robots is necessary for the story telling, but having to throw R2 a communicator that then gives his position away by its incessant squawking is ridiculous and serves only to call attention to these huge oversights.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Am I the only one thinking so?
There is a spark in every single flame bait point.
I can count on zero hands the number of movies I have seen or not seen based on a review. Be it Ebert or some anonymous blogdude. If it looks interesting to me, I'll see it (theater or DVD). If not, oh well. At most, it will be the recommendation of a friend. "Hey, you should check this one out". And it may go on my Netflix list to eventually bubble to the top.
All these mindnumbingly long reviews are so many wasted electrons to me. "Oh...(according to me, The Most High and Important), Lucas can't write, he's a hack, blah blah...or "OMG! they screwed up the CGI, and in scene 42, timecode 1:42:02:0324, the lightsaber doesn't exactly follow Yoda's arm movement! The entire movie sucks!"
Get a life. It's a movie. Escapism.
I saw the original Star Wars in the theater when it first came out, and all the others since. I'll go see this one as well. I saw about the first 5 minutes of the copy that's floating around. Enough to know that I don't want to see it for the first time on a little screen, in far less that optimal resolution, with a timecode stamped across the top.
When you sit and overanalyse the thing, you ruin it for yourself. Enjoy the movie. Or not. If that's your bag to try to determine exactly what Lucas was thinking, and/or how bad he screwed it up, fine. But no one really gives a fark what you and your buddy think.
except for the amazing special effects (Obi Wan vs General Grievous fight for example,) there was nothing special about this movie. The life-long fans cheered when the black mask was put over Anakin's head and he started breathing like the Darth Wader they knew from the first movies. They cheered when Yoda used his lightsaber again. Except for that obvious nostalgia factor the movie sucked. The acting had to be the worst I have seen. Every time Hayden Christensen and Natalie Portman spoke it looked like they were filmed for some other movie. Or that noone told them that actors are not supposed to look and sound like they are acting while shooting a movie.
You can't handle the truth.
A lot of people were (and are) reluctant to see it because the previous one was such a God-forsaken disgrace.
Effects rating
Episode I looked fairly realistic most of the time. While Jar-jar was an unpopular character, he was rendered fairly well most of the time. The biggest weakness was that the CGI was perhaps a little to sparse and too uniform. The battle-droid "pez dispenser" scene in particular didn't look quite right.
Episode II was a complete mess. Shot composition and cinematography were simply discarded and ignored in favor of making things look "high tech." The cartoon shots of Tokyo in "Ghost in the Shell" looked more realistic, and certainly less distracting from the main action. There were a lot of shots which simply could not have been done with stop-animation or puppets or other techniques, but it seems like they were done that way for no other reason.
Episode III... From the opening battle scene in the very beginning, I think you will agree that this time Lucas finally got it right. He begins with a nice close-up of a couple fighters skimming the surface of a larger ship, so when the "camera" pans back you have a much better sense of scale. (He also included one of those robot controller satellites in the shot, which not only helped the eye grasp the scale of the shot, but also reminded the viewer who they were fighting against.) Later scenes in other landscapes were also fantastic. At no point while watching the movie for the first time was I suddenly reminded that I was watching CGI characters or backgrounds.
Story review
God, what a fuck-up.
One of the things that made Star Wars so cool was that Lucas decided to make it feel like a 1930's 15-minute serial, in which most of the audience was not likely to have seen the beginning of the story. He wanted it to "come in at the middle", so he wrote an elaborate back-story which he never seriously thought he would get to film.
Having that untold back-story made the entire world seem bigger and more well thought-out.
When making Episodes 1-3, he did not have benefit of all that extra story, and it really shows.
Also, all the precious little inbred tie-ins to the the original series (C3PO was built by Anakin, "Red Five" was Obi-Wan's call sign, Chewbaca fought along with Yoda, etc. etc. etc.) were really tiresome, and had the impact of making what should have been a large-scale saga about a galactic struggle of mighty armies turn into a story where the fate of all civilizations for two entire generations were married to the actions of the same small small handful of people, many of whom were directly related.
Would it have hurt the story to have had Mace Windu (or some other Jedi) be the one who discovers the clone factory in Ep 2, instead of Obi-Wan being the only Jedi who ever does anything that matters? Did it really need to be Boba Fett's dad who was the genetic source of the clones? Did Chewie really need to be in the Wookie battle scene at all?
Why did Lucas think that all of these little "wink wink" connections would make the films more entertaing? If anything, they guarantee that children down the road who watch these films in 1-6 order will not enjoy 4-6 half as much as we did.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Took my kids this morning. I saw the original in the theaters when I was a kid and was looking forward to this one. If you went to the theater expecting Shakespearean acting you shouldn't have been smoking crack before you left. Definitely better than the first two, great CGI, good blending of old sets into the movie near the end, etc.
I won a five dollar bet when epII came out.
Right after seeing ep1, I made a bet with a buddy that in the next one Anakin would get his hand chopped off in a light saber fight with Obi Wan.
Off course, I expected him to be fighting against Obi, not along side him, but the guy gave me the five bucks anyway : )
You can't take the sky from me...
Lucas will have the CG cleaned up in time for the DVD release, just like he did with the previous two movies.
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
I didn't believe in the fall of Darth Vader at all. When he went to the dark side, it was way too abrupt. One minute he's practically quoting the Jedi code and the next minute he's slaughtering children by the roomful at the request of a guy he knows is evil (and who he wanted to kill a few short minutes earlier, or so he said), all for the hope of this mysterious power over death that was so obviously a complete lie? It didn't seem like his hunger for power even influenced his decision to follow Palpatine. Throughout the prequels he's been set up to have this character flaw that wants absolute power, and it was totally ignored during the time when he was presented with the most tempting power, in favor of this romantic "I might possibly save Padme by slaugtering the Jedi" thing. (the hunger for power did surface later, but it seemed secondary.) The fact that the romantic chemistry between Portman and Christensen has been terrible just made it worse.
If Palpatine had been shown winning Anakin's friendship, then started training him in secret, harmless stuff at first, but giving him a taste of the dark side, and Anakin had slowly been twisted over by his anger and lust for power, helped along by the deception that he would be bringing peace to the galaxy and saving Padme from certain death... That would have been much more believable. As it is, I have a hard time believing that anybody would slice through a roomful of children only for a romance as cold as the one between Padme and Anakin.
main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
They have light sabers, death stars, and droid armies. But it seems they don't have ultrasound...
Of course it could, it is a government project!
They did, however, do a great job in the second half of showing Anakin becoming Darth Vader.
Find free books.
NONE of these posts were supporting copyright.
Suggestion: read the comment before replying.
The flashback after "Empire" is indeed good. But all you need is Episode III. Episode II has too much nonsense about flying R2 units and bounty hunters and 50's diners. Episode I proves that little kids can only be the hero in little kids' movies, in addition to just having too much Jar-Jar.
What's wrong with the slashdot moderators these days.
Not that I normally condone performing psychology experiments on young kids (e.g., baby Albert), but here is an excellent opportunity to understand whether the children will find these movies better in the order 1-2-3-4-5-6 than others found them in the order 4-5-6-1-2-3. Of course, you might want to use one of your children as the control case. Also, it seems that more than 2 children would be required for this test to have any statistical significance. Perhaps you could adopt another 20-30 kids all in the same age group?
Ben Hocking
Need a professional organizer?
Agreed, that annoyed me the entire movie as well.
:)
The only half-way ok reconcilation I could make is that Anakin is so tramuatized by the fact he had similar visions of his mother's death that he really doesn't have that sort of logic at his disposal.
Also more importantly I guess is the fact that the sith lord apparently can enter into his head to some extent (he received a telepathic message at one point) so the visions were probably planted. That opens the door for additional subtle mind control.
Sometimes audience participation to the suspension of disbelief is neccesary
What bothered me about all the CGI work was the animation of the Clones' uniforms. Even when there was a live actor with the helmet off, the suit was still animated, and it did not look right at all.
1. When did they start building the second Death Star? I'm assuming that the first Death Star took 20 years to complete, and the last scene with Vader wasn't 5, 10 or 15 years into the future.
;)
2. Whatever did happen to the clones after the Clone War was over? IIRC, there was a Star Wars book (by Timothy Zahn?) that claim that the clones and the technology to produce the clones were destroyed after the Clone War.
Bonus Question: Why wasn't Jar-Jar assassinated? Or, better yet, Jar-Jar should've beaten Chewbacca in a game of chess.
Ooops, Trolled again! Man, disidents like me need to be assassinated by the Slashdot Left Wing.
Right, there's simply no believable motivation. He had a couple of nightmares and thought they might come true, OK. So why did he confide in one friend and not the other? I can almost believe that he thought both groups were trying to manipulate him, but no plausible reason was given for him turning to the Chancellor to confide in and not asking any of the Jedis, hey, anyone know how to stop death premonitions from coming true?
And once he went over to the Chancellor's side, practically the first thing the Chancellor did was say, hey, that thing I promised you I could do for you, well I have no idea how to do it, but let's go try to figure it out maybe! How dumb does this kid have to be that he doesn't rethink a little at that point?
And those are just the plot holes. The effort to sell me on the part that did make sense was just pathetic.
I'm in a land where Spanish is spoken, and I don't do too bad at it myself. So, of course I went to see it opening night! Despite being in Spanish (English version sold out for some reason!), I went to see it.
It wasn't bad. I didn't see too much of the crappy dialogue and acting that everyone's griping about.
So, anyone ELSE see this in Spanish here? Am I just not good enough at understanding Spanish yet to be totally let down by this movie? Further more, I'm HAPPY with episode III -- will I be totally let down if I see it in English???
--Jim (me)
What amazes me the most is how the media has fallen all over themselves to report how Lucas used ROTS as a vehicle to comment on the Bush administration. Now, I know it shocks you that someone in Hollywood would dislike the Republicans.
The two lines that are quoted by the media are:
Padme: "So, this is how liberty dies;" and later in the film
Vader: "If you are not with me, you are my enemy."
Fine, while I fail to see, especially given the context of its place in the film, how the first line as a commentary on Bush. I can see that it is very quotable. The second line is really unmissable as a parody of the infamous, "With us or against us" Bush line.
But, I want to note that the movie's only voice of tolerance and relativism was Palpatine, advising Anakin that the only way to be truly great is to understand all aspects of the Force! That is multi-culturalism right there.
So, here we have the Emperor giving the traditional Democratic view of things and Vader dropping the Bush parody lines. I thought both the Emperor and Vader were evil. I am very confused about exactly what political commentary Lucas is making. I can only assume that one of two conclusions is true, either, (a) Lucas is totally inept at political commentary, or (b) the Media critics are projecting their own emotions on to the film, i.e. the film is acting like a Rorschach test.
Either way, I'd really appreciate it both Lucas, the media, and anyone else leave their Damn political opinions off my entertainment.
Maybe the political arguments would have held more water is Lucas had taken the trouble to give the Sith and Jedi an constant philosophy through out the films and between characters. But, as nice as the feeling of the Jedi/Sith philosophies are they are just too inconsistent to withstand close scrutiny. Which is why is is better to just enjoy the movies than study them like they are the Torah.
However, the funniest political commentary on the film comes from this guy who sees the Jedi council as the Catholic Church. Whatever...
SyntheticLife, meanwhile, gives the guy who sat next to him a pretty harsh review: "I would've said something but then I got scared when he started talking to the characters in the movie."
Watch 4-6 first. No question about it.
Version doesn't matter much. The SE DVD versions have some added cruft, such as Han repeating his conversation with Greedo word-for-word five minutes later with Jabba, but not enough to take away much from the film. Also, some of the extremely cool and historically-signifigant space shots (done entirely with pyrotechnics, robot-guided cameras, and creative hand-cel animation) has been replaced with cartoony CGI. I can't really tell you which parts were ruined without "spoilers" (although I wonder if I'm being trolled, because it's hard to imagine how somebody got through life in Western Civilization over the past 20 years without knowing about the events in these movies.)
Also, the film was in pretty rough shape by the time the LD's were made. They will look a lot better on modern wide-screen TV sets if you watch with the cleanest prints possible, and that would be the touched-up ones in the SE box set. Sad, but true.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
I really could have done without all the Daffy Duck triple back flip crap during the fight scenes. If I wanted to see Tigger at work, I would have gone to a Winnie the Pooh flick.
I thought that particular special effect and the "no, you hang up first..." moments between Anakin and the missus scored lower on the stupid chart than Jar Jar Binks from Episode I.
I was gonna say that!
"First rule in government spending: why build one when you can have two at twice the price?"
STOP MISUSING APOSTROPHES, YOU MORONS!!!
"Back to the start, we are. Wasted our time, we did"
Caution: borderline spoilers (what? you haven't seen it yet?)
... and I still didn't feel the connection at the end. I've re-watched ep. 4-6 after seeing ep. 3 and I just don't feel it. I keep getting caught on inconsistencies in the story. Example: in ep. 4 Ben tells Luke that his Uncle Owen thought Anakin should have stayed at home and not gotten involved in the war. Well, now that we have Lucas' full story, we know Anakin wasn't "home" on Tatooine. Hell, he only saw Owen Lars ONCE when his mother died and AFAIK, never saw him again. Discrepencies like that really fray the connection between the two trilogies. Broken.
Personally, I just felt that Anakin's turning was too quick. There were three movies over which Lucas was going to tell the story of Anakin's turn to the dark side. My sense from viewing ep. 4-6 was that Vader was gradually turned, and it took a long time to "hunt down and destroy the Jedi." He did it in like 10 minutes! What "hunting" needed to be done? He just drove over to the temple and had at it. It took Anakin all of one minute to give in to the dark side completely.
Anakin's history as shown to us in ep. 1-3 does not seem to me like a reasonable history of the Darth Vader we see in ep. 4-6. It doesn't feel right.
Lucas should have focused more on connecting the story and all of its fine little threads instead of making beautiful lightsabre fights & space battles. The shiny special effects will wear off over time as the state-of-the-art advances, but the story will be forever disjointed.
And for goodness sakes, why did Lucas have to put Christiansen in at the end of ep. 6 as Anakin's "ghost"? He didn't replace who we see when Luke takes off Vader's helmet earlier in the movie. And now we know Obi Wan & Yoda spent 20 years talking to Qui-Gon in the beyond and figuring out how to become that ghost-person. And all of a sudden Vader knew how?
I could go on... but I won't. It was nice to finally see the battle between Anakin and Obi-Wan. That, at least, was believable.
Gabriel Ricard
I surmize that the real reason for the hideousness of the later episodes is simple: George can't write worth a damn.
Factoid: Lucas's wife Marcia edited American Graffiti and Star Wars; the couple were married from 1969-83.
Remember how the original Star Wars was so different? Mixed with humor and other elements in the dialogue -- seemed to consist of real entertainment.
Too bad Marcia wasn't there to influence all the episodes...
I couldn't believe it... they actually made a wookie do a Tarzan call on the way into battle!!! SOooo WRONG!
It made me wanna shout NOOOOOOOO!! in the cinema hall just like Anakin does when he's told he killed Padme and Luke does in the "you're not my father scene". Okay so I got it off my chest.
NOOOOOOooooooooo
Indeed, this film series (whose art house qualities remind the intellectual filmgoer of the Decalogue in scope, or perhaps a parallel can be best made between Star Wars and the Trois Couleurs Trilogy, in that both series exhibit semi-paradoxical tendencies for the both the surreal and the comic while trying to maintain at least some semblance of the post-modernistic cliche of parallel bereavement and longing for the freudian (or perhaps jungian would be better) other in that the subconscious is always expressed in terms of pseudo-violence, usually directed towards the self but often manifested in the form of senseless destruction against establishment regulation.
It is important to remember this war amongst the stars in these quasi-anthropological terms, for the genesis of such serial work too can have its roots in the experimental (think of the obvious parallels between Return of the Jedi and, say, Man With a Movie Camera). With that in mind, Revenge of the Sith...
Show me on the doll where his noodly appendage touched you.
Your commment about the story focusing on Anakin/Vader is abdsolutely correct. I've read the books, seen the movies and it has always been my impression that Star Wars is mostly about father Skywalker's life and how he is saved by his son then it is about just Luke. Luke the son is important, but the story is about the father's fall and redemption.
I see the important central idea around Star Wars in how Darth Sidious's attempt to turn Luke, ends up saving Anakin's sole.
If you look at how in episode VI, Luke is in the place against Anakin that Anakin was in episode II with Count Dooku.
That was where Darth Sidious realized he could control Anakin and make him his apprentice by having him kill Dooku.
That step was Anakins last chance to resist. The difference is that Luke stops short and refuses to fight.
It drives the Sidious to start killing Luke and it gets Vader to recognize and correct his mistake years later.
Look at Luke and Anakin when Sidious tries to convert them, they are both roughfully the same age, in extremely similar positions.
I think it adds to the whole experience.
Respect the Constitution
Yes.
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
;)
Only a Sith deals in absolutes.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
There are issues with the storyline between where we start in Ep4 and where we were going with Ep1-3. Lucas just couldn't avoid boxing himself into a corner. A corner you can't get out of no matter how many greenbacks you throw at it if you can't (or don't hire someone who can) write a decent screenplay.
SPOILERS
1. 3PO and R2 have their memory wiped. Fine, but how does that explain that Vader doesn't exclaim upon first seeing the droids in the 2nd trilogy "3PO! R2! I remember you two!" It's not like they even changed their names so they could start 'fresh' in their lives as androids.
2. Luke and Leia are born and the grand idea to protect them is... drumroll please! a) place one in a senator's family, close to the Emperor and one would expect, Vader as well, and b) place the other with the only remaining living relatives of the Skywalker clan. Vader, given the 20 years or so that will pass, he will *never* visit his home planet during all that time, eh? To visit his mother's grave, see how his half-brother is doing, etc.?
3. Padme dies of a 'broken heart'? The first 2 movies let her demonstrate the qualities that her future daughter will possess: she's basically a strong-minded and smart young woman. Yet RotS demotes her to the cliche of weak-hearted wife that can't live without her husband's love. WTF?
4. Yoda 'failed'? How did he fail? What occurred during his battle with the Emperor that made him have to run? Surely he could've attacked again? You would think with the fate of the galaxy hanging in the balance, he would have tried to get the Emperor while his defenses were down, busy trying to placate the Senate as he wrapped up his plan of domination.
5. What exactly compelled Yoda and Obi to go into exile? As far as they know, they are matched up quite well. Emperor and Vader to Yoda and Obi. So go run and regroup... but wait until the kids are grown? The kids are safe, they would have you believe... And as Obi already knows, Vader, as a young Lord of the Sith, makes brash mistakes (e.g. getting all his limbs chopped off) when he lets his temper get the best of him. Even the Emperor gets his ass handed to him by Mace Windu, it's only Anakin's surprise intervention that shifted the scales then. So why wait while the Emperor has all those years to train Vader?
The point is not to say these are problems that couldn't be solved, but indeed that they COULD HAVE been explained, but for some reason Lucas did not. Padme could indeed have been mortally wounded by Vader, Yoda as well, and a danger could have enveloped the remaining Jedi, thereby forcing them to leave and go into exile, and bury their 'force' fields in order to save innocent humans, etc.
But even further, there are other elements in this final movie that just make me so frustrated. The gravitas of the whole storyline is FINALLY hinted at, never mind with the Williams' score, but in the actual acting! Yoda, even as a CG actor, showed much more deep thought (gone are the simple platitudes that he was spouting back in 1 and 2) than practically any other actor in this film. And during the climactic lava battle, we're finally shown a Jedi's declaration of love for another, as Obi Wan, finally realizing that Anakin must die/is already dead, tells him that he loved him. Where was that during 1 and 2? Where was ANY counter to Anakin's angst that we all whined about in 2? Surely Anakin's cheese is all the cheesier when it's in a vacuum. With Obi expressing his fondness for his 'brother' it doesn't seem so 'cold' this land of Jedi. Even if it's *against* the rules for a Jedi to show emotion or grow attached, that Lucas could never (or chose not to) let us see beneath Obi's frosty mentor exterior and see how much he cared for Anakin, it's a crime that robbed the movies of the depth they were sorely lacking.
The surprising thing, I think for many of us long-time SW geeks, is that even with all the above, this movie still kicked 1&2's ass. I give it an 8 out of 10. With Empire a solid 10.
n/a
"he would have told that story first"
Have you seen the original trailer for the original Star Wars (before it was labeled A New Hope)? There is NO way that Lucas:
1. Planned for 6 movies back then.
2. Knew that Leia and Luke were brother and sister. There are clips strung together of Luke and Leia with voiceovers talking about a story that includes "romance".
I think that, much like other artists, he's prone to not only historical retrofits, but possibly has actually convinced himself that these stories are actually true. He made *a* movie, got lucky and it turned out wildly successful and popular. Then, like thousands before him, he sat down to figure out how to extend that success. 30 years later, he's stuck in a GOTO loop.
The Glass is Too Big: My Take on Things
there is no article or link, it was someting I had written out with the intent of learning more myself about how I and other "designers" could help. It keeps cropping up in discussions about poor UI interfaces and such and I thought it was time slashdot covered it and got a decent discussion out of it. However, since I got nowhere with it all I can do is bitch like an old bitter man.
Jonathanjk.com
the couple were married from 1969-83
Note the release dates: Star Wars (1977), The Empire Strikes Back (1980), and The Return of the Jedi (1983)
You just used "affect the effect" in a sentence.
I've never seen such poor writing from somebody who knows the correct meaning of both words.
was John Williams the best part(s) of the movie?
I gave a reply to the other guy regarding this story, check it out.
Jonathanjk.com
Is that a light saber I see before me?
I rented the "original" Star Wars because my young son had never seen it. We watched it last night. This was not the original film. I kinda remember reading something about how the original was bastardized for DVD release... but had no idea it would be so bad. I was thinking maybe some color optimization, cleaner effects, whatever.
But what I saw was just wrong. Nobody should ever go back and futz up their movies 20+ years later. Or at least, it should've been renamed "Director's Cut" or something.
It was crap. There are now cartoony aliens painted into several scenes... The Jaba The Hut is ridiculous. It's so much crap. I can hardly believe it. A big thumbs DOWN for George "Still Fondling My Inner Child" Lucas. I will not pay to see the Sith, as I have not paid to see any since Return of the Jedi. Shame on you Mr. Lucas! Shame, Shame on you!!!!!
"Would it kill you to put down the toilet seat?" -- Maya Angelou
So Darth Vader is evil because he loved his wife too much? That's just absurd. Apply that statement to Hitler or Pol Pot or any other person held up as the archetypical "evil," power-mad dictator type. If anything stands out about them, it's that they are *too* detached from other human beings. They are sociopathic. They lack empathy. They are filled with irrational hatred.
Why does Anakin hate the Jedi? It doesn't make any sense. He was frustrated by his lack of promotion, but is that reason enough to exterminate them, even the children (er, "younglings"?) and his best friend and mentor?
The movie is entertaining enough, but please. If anyone brings up the influence of Shakespeare on Lucas I'm gonna lightsaber 'em. He clearly didn't learn anything about character development from the Bard.
Anakin: "Come back here, Obi-Wan, and fight like a man! I'll bite your kneecaps off!"
I don't see how ROTS could have been much better. Ok, yeah, there are minor nits to be picked, but by and large, it was exactly the movie I was hoping to see. Lucas outdid himself on this one.
And now having seen III, episodes I and II make a lot more sense; "the circle is complete" so to speak. I thought this movie did a great job of setting up A New Hope, while leaving just a few questions unanswered (and leaving, IMHO, room for another movie or two between ROTS and ANH).
Was it perfect? No. Was it very, very good? Yes. Absolutely. I can't wait to go see it again, personally.
Oh, and regarding the political commentary: I don't think Lucas was commenting on Bush. The overall story of the fall of the Old Republic has been around since the 70's, far before G.W. Bush was on anybody's mind.
// TODO: Insert Cool Sig
Who the fuck are Erik and Jamie and why should their opinion matter? Seriously, next week, I want a front page blurb to be able to rant and rave about why stereotactive neurosurgery technique is good because I am as credible on brain surgery as these two are about movies.
No trolling :>
The story's like this: I was too young to have opportunity to watch the films in the 80's (when they were repeteadly, year after year, screened during vacations; one of few Hollywood movies permitted by censorship - I guees beeing just a "fairytale" not in our universe, and also featuring revolution against imperialists, they were seen as OK). Later, when I wanted to see it...nothing. Not in cinemas, not on TV, nothing. The only way was renting of ubercrappy, 5 year old minimum, VHS tape.
Now there are DVD rentals...but I don't have a DVD and I won't have it for some time. :/ Yeah, and now you can also guess how wide-screen TV "issue" looks from my point of view...
One that hath name thou can not otter
... you can read it here.
Did anyone find it amusing to see Luke and Leia as bbabies. They're not even premature! How many months was Padme pregnant? It can't be nine months!
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
I guess where I was going with all this is my pet theory that Lucas is actually not done with 4-6. He will re-work them again... Any excuse he has to tinker with them (making them 3D now) lets him 'adjust' things so that it fits with the current point in his head of the storyline. So I wouldn't be surprised if we get to witness more of Vader's side of things during 4-6. His discovery of having children means he will understand that the Emperor deceived him about Padme dying by his hand, setting up his act of betrayal later. His command to follow the droids to Tatooine might have an added hint that it is in fact his homeworld. It's perfect since Vader is indeed just a man in a costume, so no problem whoever is in the suit, and his inner voice could now be in Hayden's voice, not James Earl Jones.
(And maybe Lucas will somehow explain why Vader doesn't recognize the two droids that he hung around with during his early years... even the one he himself built as a young boy!)
n/a
While I've enjoyed the prequel movies, I personally liked The Fifth Element more than any one of these movies. The Fifth Element just seemed more fun to watch and it had many futuristic space sci-fi aspects like Star Wars.
:-]
THe parent isnt funny, but really insightful.
While the actors had to make their lines before the greenscreen, the voice actors for the dub could see the final mix, and so much better apreciate the situations the characters are in.
HI O WISE PRINCE. WHT TOOK U SO DAM LONG?
"Now, we are going to set this pile of evil ablaze, but because these are children's toys, the fire will spread quickly, so please stand back and try not to inhale the toxic fumes."
Old news... Chewie did it in RotJ while swinging onto the AT-ST w/ the 2 ewoks. This just harkens back to that other scene.
Statesmen serve to better the country and help the people.
Politicians serve to better themselves and help friends.
Frankly I think that Lucas made something that grew so big that it is impossible to contiune. He doesn't have the same actors, completely new technology and a reputation for having made a cult film. I don't see how people can expect something in the same vein or something better every time. Episode III was awesome. If you forget about all the special effects and just concentrate on the story, it is a moving film. Shit I cried in it a few times. Anakin's transformation into Vader is perfect, Palpatine is freeded to be his dark self and the story fits in perfectly to something episode 4. People expect way too much, the film kicks arse.
The reasoning behind that was that Anakin died when he fell to the dark side.
But didn't then again didn't he come back to the light side when he killed the emperor?
Yah, he shouldn't have messed with that...
The climactic emotional moment, I swear to God, is a rip-off of Homer Simpson.
OK, I saw the movie, but I don't get it. Anyone care to explain?
Some of the effects were decidedly ropey - the giant lizard ridden by Obi Wan was not that good (I'm not sure any CGI yet is good enough to create 100% convincing living beings yet) & the bit where several of the clones had their helmets removed so you could see their faces was atrociously bad - why Lucas didn't cut that scene I'll never know.
As to the vehicle animations, I have nothing but admiration for ILMs ability to do what they have shown they can do but the ship battle at the beginning was just too busy. I really get the impression that as many new vehicles as possible were crammed in just to generate toy sales meaning we had a battle scene that was confused and kept drawing your attention all over different parts of the screen.
Lucas however, can do myth very, very well.
I won't argue that he can tell a good story but his pace and directing leaves much to be desired in the first trilogy.
Child Anakin should have been the first half hour of episode 1 and Hayden's Anakin standing on a balcony arm-in-arm with Padme should have been the end of that same episode.
Episode 2 should have shown the gradual fall of Anakin and ended at a point where Palpatine has already placed some doubts in his mind so that he has his first piece of internal struggle at the end of the movie - this would have mirrored Luke's struggles at the end of Empire Strikes Back very well.
Episode 3 should have just been about the fall of Anakin and the rise of Palpatine. This was done far too quickly in episode 3 and lessened the effect as a result. We should have been aching to see Episode 3 just like we were with Episode 6 when Han was left encased in Corbomite.
In summary, the movie is the best of the first trilogy but not a patch on any of the second trilogy movies. And before anyone mentions Ewoks, at least in Return Of The Jedi we were all rooting for the Rebellion and the little bears because we had saw real people.
In the case of "droids vs clones", who really cares how many were killed on each side because more could always be wheeled on - the first trilogy turned warfare into something very sterile and remote whereas in the second trilogy we saw and felt genuine loss, whether it was an X-Wing pilot, Hoth infantryman or an Ewok.
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
Well, do the best you can for the situation you are in. If you need to choose between compromising on visual quality and compromising on sound, go with the better sound.
The music John Williams composed for this series of films is maybe half the reason why they are so popular. Even as much as I hated "Attack of the Clones", and as skeptical as I was about liking the new one... when the opening fanfare boomed through the theater speakers, it still sent a tingle down my spine.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
> No, Vader destroys Sideous and himself in one selfless act.
Did you see the body? Then Darth Sideous is not dead. The prophecies were misread by the council.
A better question is how does this film stand on its own? lets imagine a world without any other star wars. no one is in love with the characters, the universe, or the story. hell, they are just as fickle and pissy as usual.
Can you envision that? Good. Now would you have even looked twice at this movie? would anyone have gone to see it? Be honest now. I know that I wouldn't be impressed.
This reminds me of a film I saw several years ago. It was a very interesting concept, and the effects were very well done, but it seemed like they took a long novel and tried to condense it into a 2 hour film, and failed. It could have been great, but there was nothing there to make me care about this "could have been" film. I see the same thing when I look at this film all by itself.
Sure the effects are great. Will they be surpassed again in a few years? Probably. Will there be any reason to remember this film then? Probably not, if it wasn't for the 5 other films that accompany it.
On its own merits, i say this film is very poorly done, and I wish that people could see it that way.
OK, a droid as a General - I have no problem with. A droid with lungs and a cough - Right.... maybe there could be some benefit to the organic lungs. I'll buy that for now. A droid with lungs that gets itself sucked into space as an escape route and appears to suffer no ill-effects. Sorry, not buying that.
It's great that Anakin comes back from the dark side, but Episodes IV to VI are about Luke, not Anakin. It's almost like Lucas is trying to get back at Mark Hamil or something.....
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
heh. The best part of that exchange (in V at least) was that the Han Solo line was ad-libbed by Ford. I swear, if it weren't for the fact that other people helped write and direct 5 & 6, they'd have been such colossal bombs that the series would have been universally panned.
Rush Limbaugh joins Slashdot. -1: drug-induced hostility
I think most of your points are picky ... but this one is easily explained...
... they were named just like many Johns, Marks, Micheals on the planet. R2 was an R line astromech - we saw several R4's and R2's in the other movies.
...
1. 3PO and R2 have their memory wiped. Fine, but how does that explain that Vader doesn't exclaim upon first seeing the droids in the 2nd trilogy "3PO! R2! I remember you two!" It's not like they even changed their names so they could start 'fresh' in their lives as androids.
These were standard protocol and standard astromech droids
In this movie there were AT least 5 protocols that looked identical to C3PO - in the original trilogy, Anthony Daniels even voiced another protocol droid and said something like "Eechoot tah" when 3PO addressed him.
You say, the exile and Yoda failed like it was a short period of time for Episode III to transpire - when in fact - Episode III was over an 8 month period of time. So, 18 years isn't long in the Star Wars galaxy. After all, the transition between Anakin in Eps I to Episode II was 11 years and to III 8 years. Luke from IV to V is 4 years and to VI is 6 more years. So, in those terms the time passage is relatively short.
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
Your first sentence is not 100% clear to me...so what precisely do you suggest?
PS. Oh, and thanks for answers
One that hath name thou can not otter
in Eugene. The movie was bad. I didn't enjoy it. That said, I think the best part was whenever JarJar showed up, MC would clap, and when people groaned at the horrible dialogue, he stood up and shouted "shut up, it's serious". my major problems are as follows:
1. chewbacca becomes aligned with the rebellion. Umm, last I checked, he was a smuggler with Han, no attachment to the rebellion until they got in with Like and Obi.
2. how did they manage to make a woman as beautiful as Natalie Portman look so bad?
3. hayden christianson. how would the movie have been different if the part was played by Andy Dick?
...was not that Leia knew about her mother in Episode 6. If one actually reads the dialogue, he says the following:
LUKE: Leia... do you remember your mother? Your real mother?
LEIA: Just a little bit. She died when I was very young.
LUKE: What do you remember?
LEIA: Just...images, really. Feelings.
LUKE: Tell me.
LEIA: She was very beautiful. Kind, but...sad.
So, let's see. Very young. Check. Can't remember words or anything specific. Check. However Obi-wan's dialogue is a bit more problematic:
OBI-WAN: When your father left, he didn't know your mother was pregnant. Your mother and I knew he would find out eventually, but we wanted to keep you both as safe as possible, for as long as possible. So I took you to live with my brother Owen on Tatooine... and your mother took Leia to live as the daughter of Senator Organa, on Alderaan.
Where to begin? How about Anakin knowing very early on and oh how about that bit about Leia taking Leia to Alderaan. Now THAT's a problem.
However, to look at this and see that as the overriding point of the trilogy is to miss the point: the one critical mistake that could've averted Anakin's fall and the empire's rise. He didn't use a condom. If Padme/Anakin had used proper birth control, Luke/Leia wouldn't have been born but more importantly Anakin would have lost his biggest motivation to go to the dark side.
So remember kids, for the sake of the galaxy, use proper contraception.
-- Political fascism requires a Fuhrer.
Darth did it.
How is this poor writing?
It doesn't AFFECT (change, modify) the EFFECT (what the movie does to you) of the movies.
-Z
"Linux Comparison
Get The Facts: Windows vs. Linux.
Read The Independent Analysis Now.
www.microsoft.com
Get the "facts"? "Independent" analysis? Haven't we had those lies debunked enought that they don't show up in ads on /.? And why does Google allow outright lies to be bought for as ads?
4-6 may follow Luke, but the series is a whole is about Anakin.
There is nobody, anywhere, that can honestly say they BELIEVED the motivation for the turn to the dark side.
I did.
// TODO: Insert Cool Sig
I was seriously annoyed at a lot of stupid stuff in episode III, particularly at the beginning. The jedi don't seem to be using the force as much as u might think they would. Like when they step into the elevator on Grievous' ship they stand there for a few seconds and then realize that there are battle droids in the elevator with them, who for some reason weren't shooting at them, and then slice them up. WTF if they're jedi why didn't they sense the droids? And why are all the bad guys so retarded???? Like when R2 was in the hangar and obi-wan was talking to it through the comlink. #1 - why was the comlink so loud? #2 - WHY DID THE BATTLE DROIDS IGNORE THE NOISE? #3 - And WTF, shouldn't R2 have a comlink built into it???? Another thing that pissed me off is when anakin drops into the elevator and catches obi-wan by surprise and he draws his lightsaber. WTF?? this was a pathetic attempt at humor. this isn't a fucking comedy, a fact that lucas doesn't seem to be aware of. I could go on forever. still, it was a pretty good movie.
I wouldn't believe it if I didn't see it on IMDB. Thanks for pointing this out.
Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
As others have noted, he loses the hand in II. You see it in the marriage scene. I think it's worth noting that the hand that Anakin gets is a little larger than a normal sized hand, extends about 4 inches down his arm, and is silver-colored and clearly mechanical, while the arm Luke gets appears to be real. If he thinks of nothing else, at least Lucas shows some progression of technology
im a little dissapointed, not as much with the movie as i am with lucas for making it so.. mundane.
There was story, but how many of us felt it? Between the near-seizure-causing-amoung-of-lightsaber, there were the little tidbits that we didn't even notice, because we already knew.
so, im more upset that there wasnt anything new, just that which has already been covered
*************** Spoilers ***************
The only thing I liked about the episode 3 was the things that we managed to link with episode 4, such as ObiWan picking up the Anakin's Lightsaber.
The things I didn't like was how rushed the movie was, like Padme giving the names as if she knew she had twins and had everything planned or how easily seduced Anakin became to the dark side.
Anakin: I shouldn't kill him, it isn't the Jedi way
Palpatine: do it!
Anakin: okidoo! Omg what have I done! (he didn't say "ok" but that's what he implied)
I was very dissapointed not to see the debut of the Rebel Forces (with the meeting of Meeting with Organa, Mon Mothma and Padme) or Yoda going to Dagobah. Too many deleted scenes that should of made it in the movie, that would of been most appreciated by hardcore fans.
Was worth to watch one time. Let's look at the bright side. Jar Jar didn't say a damn thing
Dave? Dave's not here, man.
*RANT ALERT*
I feel so burned by Episodes 1 and 2 that I am not going to the theaters to watch this one. I was a young lad waiting in a block long line to watch the Star Wars episode and it was ground breaking. Empire Strikes Back was equally great. Return of the Jedi was excellent. This was a great series of movies. Great characters, just enough special effects, and a good story.
Then years passed. Something came out in 1999 that was supposed to be from the same director, and the same story, but it had a different twist to it. Suddenly, it had to appeal to everyone. Jar Jar is enough to make me hate the entire franchise in itself. 50 guys fighting with lightsabers is not impressive in today's CG environment. It sucked as a movie, it sucked as SCI-FI. It sucked so bad, I am going to only further say that I fell asleep during Episode 2 and I am not giving it any more of my time or money. I will rent it on video when it comes out. I'm not going to get suckered in to this reviewer hype that, "This one is better than the first two." Ha! When was the last time you could trust the media talking about itself anyways?
slash rant.
of Star Wars IV. the sequels woulnd't be that nice without him, but he really MADE the first. actually he perfectly blended into that role and made my day. it's all about Han Solo.
another aspect were the perfectly cool models, puppets and masks. screw that damn digital age, i hate every inch of computer made special effects unless they support the scene to make it more believable. star wars just became a cartoon and a bad one too...
I'm not often the kind of person to be annoyed by holes in a movie while I'm watching it. More often, I reflect back and notice them. However, while watching the movie, why the hell Anakin isn't able to sense Padme's pregnancy before she says so; he's obviously surprised. And they always refer to 'the baby.' He's able to sense when Luke is in the same star system in the original trilogy, but not that there are twins? Give me a break!
Firstly on Lucas's mania for filling the screen constantly with distracting stuff. Like trying to watch a movie in front a fishtank full of demented goldfish.
Secondly on the Younglings. How on earth did he come up with that line? To an English viewer at least it brings up images of Woodhousinan cocktail-drinking middle-aged couple in the Surrey stockbroker belt. Aka..
[Somewhere near Guildford ca mid 1930s. A couple are drinking Pimms and Lemon after tennis]
"I say dear, have you hear about that frightful business with the Younglings?"
"No dear. Did his wife find out about his mistress?"
"No dear, terribly shocking. Apparently they came home after drinks at Whites to some trouble with that Darth Vader chappie and his regimental sword"
"Terrible how you just can't get good staff these days"
Dig this: a rumor is going around that there are large organizations working together that are trying to persuade (I say brainwash!) human beings to purchase consumer goods. These organizations often meet on a daily basis on or near Madison Avenue in New York City. This nefarious conspiracy must be put to an end. /sarcasm
/. is an ad.
Ok, look, moron: there ARE PR flacks working for the MPAA that have gotten "news stories" in the newspapers and TV that are favorable to the movie industry. Why not the internet? Is there some special "force" that prevents those same PR flacks from posting here on Slashdot?
Furthermore, what do you want to bet that Slashdot was even paid to post one or more "Revenge of the Sith" stories? Maybe even THIS even slashdot story was bought and paid for? You do know that almost all the ads that are run on slashdot are paid for by corporations? Why not stories?
You don't think that these HUGE torrent of Star Wars "Revenge of the Sith" frenzy all over the media is not bought and paid for by the movie studio and distributors for REvenge of the Sith? All these "news stories" in papers and "features" on TV shows" most of the are actually ADVERTISEMENTS! And it is quite possible that this very story on
Oh, one more thing: there is no Santa Claus or tooth fairy. Sorry to break it to you like this....
eat shiat and bark at the moon
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes. ;)"
"Do or do not. There is no try." - Yoda
Did I miss something or was yoda also evil?
Georgia Tech, the leader in Chia(tm) technology.
Apparently, a long long time ago in a galaxy far far away they hadn't discovered freakin' non breakable glass!
Who in their right mind has the whole viewing widow of a star ship made out of glass that breaks when whacked by a weapon??
That did it for me.
RobotBox - Robot projects from around the world
Personality i cant wait for jurassic park episode 1 where steven speilberg renames the first 3 episodes 4-6.
Let's face it, Grievous (or however you spell it) was a badly thought up plot device.
I can imagine Lucas having trouble getting Christopher Lee to do the whole movie so he has to settle for having him at the beginning and killing him off quickly. Grievous was therefore a "last minute" filler character and a badly thought out one.
After all, the only organic pieces of Grievous appeared to be his head (beneath the mask) and part of his torso. Assuming enough of his torso was left to contain lungs, movement wouldn't cause him to breath heavier because his limbs are entirely robotic and presumably externally powered by a battery or power source, not from a normal heart respiratory system.
And if we're meant to believe his lungs were so bad, then why weren't they replaced also when his limbs were?
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
Of course Episode 3 doesn't stand on its own. It's not supposed to stand on its own. It doesn't even make sense to have the movie stand on own. It is the 6th movie in larger story. Heck, it's the middle of a six part story.
To stand on it's own, it would have to introduce all of the characters, explain the force and re-hash the previous two movies. If I wanted to see Episodes 1 and 2, I would watch them and not Episode 3.
The power of sequels (and prequels) is that the audience is already familiar with the basic setting, so you don't have to rehash the whole thing. You complain that Episode 3 would be nothing without the other 5 and you wish others would see it that way. Do you only enjoy novels where each of the chapters stands on its own? Of course not. Individual chapters in a book are junk, but they can be more than the sum of their parts. Same with the Star Wars movies.
Complaining that it doesn't stand on it's own, is crazy. It's like complaining that "The Two Towers" in the Lord of the Rings trilogy is junk because it doesn't stand on its own.
There are plenty of things to complain about with the Star Wars movies. But the fact that each movie doesn't stand on it's own, it just stupid. I would guess that this is just a way for the parent poster to try to feel superior to all of the unenlightened people who don't see it his way.
Anakin's transformation into Vader is perfect
...")
... some of it was left out due to time constraints'. To that, I say, bull - you can't expect every moviegoer to have read the books, it's a weak excuse, and a WEAK Anakin -> Vader transformation.
Perfect? It was far from perfect. At the beginning, he's hesitating to kill Count Dooku, and refusing to leave Obi-Wan for dead. Then, he's telling Mace Windu 'he should go to trial - that's not the Jedi Way', and ten seconds later is blithely standing by watching Palpatine kill Mace, after what was at that point obviously a feint ("ooh, I'm so powerless now
If he'd told the "younglings" to run away, I'd have found it more believable - then we could have presumed that Vader became more completely evil in the gap between Episode III and Episode IV, as the dark side took hold - but as it stands, you've got an Anakin that was blithely willing to kill children mere minutes after he was attempting to hold to Jedi ideals.
Everyone who has read the books has said 'Oh, there's more to it than that, it was over a long time, you need to read the books
Code or be coded.
In prosthetics, if not space ship design.
Ok. I saw it. I really liked it--it's Star Wars.
There are two things to remember when watching any of these films:
1) They are not Science Fiction
2) They are not the uber-cerebral life-changing movies you thought they were when you were a kid (and they never were).
Ok, those said, I think a pinch or two of salt should be added to your cinematic experience. Sure the dialog is wooden and contrived--if not corny. So is the acting & dialogue on anything found on the Sci-Fi channel, Bab5, Star Trek, Battle Star Galactica. Every one of those shows are cheesy but all the geeks seem to like them anyway. Why should SWEP3 be any different?
Lucas calls them "Space Operas" --and if you're familiar with that genre, you know that opera's stories and motivations require an extended suspension of disbelief. You just go with it.
Because all of the technology and theory in Star Wars isn't really explained, it just happens to take place in a galaxy far, far away, it gets lumped into SciFi genre. SciFi is a bit more satisfying to the "geek" types. But, Star Wars really doesn't quite fit into that category despite it's cover.
Hayden Christianson definitely comes off as a poor actor--or he isn't given very good direction to bring more dimension to his character. How was he in "Shattered Glass"? I think dialog and direction can make or break a good performance. Maybe if Lucas let someone else direct, it might have worked better.
I was blown away by the eye candy and I think it sets up the next film fine. I'm going to overlook some of the incontinuity others are finding just because I have more important things in life to bitch about. Afterall, it's just a movie, isn't it?
If you're a detail-oriented person, you'll probably be very frustrated. If you just like an entertaining, mind-blowing ride through Lucas's world, you'll probably enjoy it.
For whatever my $.02 is worth.
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
...because it's clumsy and esthetically unappealing. You used both words in grammatically correct ways, but it took your correcting comment for even me to see it (and I unfortunately look at my students using these words incorrectly all the time). Good writing is more than correct grammar usage. Correct grammar is merely the necessary foundation. Think poetry, think great dialog. Think of some terribly written book you've suffered through. Even most of the last have correct grammar because most books (except some computer books ;-)) have editors who go through and clean up the grammar and try to clean up some of the writing.
Just saw this on MSN Entertainment.
= 779df5c6-71c1-48c0-bdb1-1306b5d221e4
http://movies.msn.com/beacon/editorial1.aspx?ptid
Kevin Smith to direct the series (at least some) = GLEE!
Statesmen serve to better the country and help the people.
Politicians serve to better themselves and help friends.
And, best of all, it answered lots of questions, but also raised lots more - we know how Anakin fell to the Dark Side, and we know how he became Darth Vader. We understand where Luke and Leia fit in, and even a little about the Jedi "ghosts". But there's lots to discuss - was Palpatine really beaten by Mace Windu (I highly doubt it). And what was really going through Anakin's head? Did he really believe that he was going to bring peace, etc, to the galaxy? Or was it just to give himself a plausable excuse to save Amidala? So delightfully tormented! I've posted some thoughts to my blog.
Physicist, consultant, science communicator
Star Wars Episode 3.5: Oedipus Strikes First
He also knows that he himself is young, inexperienced and destined to become a Sith apprentice.
On that basis, given a bunch of Jedi kids who are even younger and less inexperienced than he is, wouldn't it have made more sense for Anakin to maybe kidnap the younglings, take them to a remote planet somewhere and do a Darkside conversion job on them also so that he himself can train an apprentice?
Sure, if we need to have all of the Jedi dead by the time of Episode 4, how about he dumps the younglings on a remote planet and they get killed by Tuscan raiders or something? Since he likes kids, he'd be confused, anguished and would feel responsible and this would be a far better way of handling it than just have him suddenly turn to being a murderer.
And are we actually saying that a mass murderer of children is still able to achieve redemption to the good side of the force upon his death in Episode 6?
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
I shouldn't have to mention this, but the trailer was made after the movie was produced, and only existed to promote the movie. The title would have been abbreviated for marketing reasons, and the romantic subplot emphasised for the same reasons -- to get people into theatres. I think you're reading a bit much into what is essentially a commercial.
Now, I'm not saying that the grand story hasn't been revised at all over the last 28 years, and I'm not saying that Lucas ever actually thought he would get to make six movies back in 1977, but he was clearly thinking about a larger story than just that first movie, even back then.
Living better through chemicals
At $20 a pop (yes married) I like to at least check rottentomatoes.com before forking out money on a movies I've got reservations about.
:)
That said, only a fool would take any of it as gospel so if you're have such strong feelings maybe you should re-evaluate how you use movie reviews.
I loved Zoolander and never would have seen it if I'd gone by the critics. But Star Wars lived (IMHO) right up to its negative (and positive) reviews. No-one is out there trying to defraud you. Over analyzed? It just looks like maybe your taking them a little too seriously.
At least for me, I appreciated the heads up and frankly coming out of it I'm 100% confident I'd have better spent my time watching Kung-Foo Hustle (thanks 50/50 reviews, knowledge of actors/directors previous work).
And as for the timecoding/lightsabre reviews Star Wars is a little geeky. Thats got very little to do with anything aside from its status as a cultural icon (for better and worse). Those you really should learn to appreciate at the very least for humors sake. Where else do you get to see people so worked up about things so inconsequential?
Quack, quack.
I think that whe Lucas made Leia and Luke siblings it was a direct attack of the Empire Strikes Back when they kissed. He wanted to throw a fork into the wheels because he was relieved of director (or what ever lead it was) duties. He wanted to say he knew the story line and no one else should interfere. Doesn't it seem strange that in a New Hope, Vader had Leia in posession but couldn't detect some "force" yet miles away he did in Return of the Jedi. You can point to that momment is where Lucas fell of the wagon and wanted to do things his(tm) way.
before the current trilogy. Granted I heard some pop culture references ("I am your father.." - but did parody reflect that he really was his father or was it ironic decription of Darth Vader's lies to mislead Luke?!) but I tried to avoid as many spoilers as I could. When I watched Phantom Menace and Clone Wars I came with a blank slate. And thats the problem really because those movies sucked. I actually fell asleep during Clone Wars and didn't go back to finish it.
Later on I decided to see the original trilogy just to make sure I wasn't missing out on something that everyone knew about. I found them decent (well the *special effects* are obviously dated to me) and can now relate to why many people are such fans. But the order has got to be 4-5-6-1-2-3 or else they wouldn't even bother and preferably don't show those kids more advanced effects beforehand because they'll be pretty bored with *muppets*
Anyone notice that, in the star wars movies, like episode 1 and 2, yoda is all bad ass and serious all the time. But in Empire and Jedi, the fucker is like, laughing all the time? Hanging out in a swamp in a hut? I think i figured out what happened. After everything happened with all the jedi dying and shit... yoda started sportin the ganj! It's the only explanation possible. Dude's got a bad case of the munchies when he first meets luke and he's giggling up a fit. I bet it's because he just smoked a bowl!
Yes, my girlfriend is a BitchX
"Old news... Chewie did it in RotJ while swinging onto the AT-ST w/ the 2 ewoks. This just harkens back to that other scene."
It was funny when he did it in RotJ. This time, they might as well have used the 12345 joke when R2 was trying to get the elevator going.
"Derp de derp."
I dunno about that. I think he planned to continue the saga from the start.
Notice that when the death star is destroyed, they CLEARLY show a shot of Vader in his ship, regaining control of it and flying off, presumably to cause more mischief in the future.
If this doesn't say.. "sequel coming!!" I dunno what does. }:)
-Z
There was only one thing missing from this movie. After the credits run through, all of those loyal fans who stuck it out to the very end watch as Darth Vader force chokes Jar-Jar to death. Now that is what I call a happy ending.
#define QUESTION ((bb) || !(bb))
My thought when we're first introduced to crying baby-Luke:
"He was even whiney back then!"
I thought everyone on Slashdot saw it opening night at midnight.
75% of Slashdotters are not allowed to go out after 9:00 pm.
Of that 75%, half are trying to download it using bittorrent over a dial-up connection. The other half is still trying to shut down adware popups while getting to a warez site.
Of the other 25%, half went to see the movie or plan to. The rest of us will wait a month for the DVD to be released.
I made up all these numbers in case you're still wondering.
While this movie wasn't as bad as the previous two prequels the plot and the acting really did little to present a compelling story of a man's descent into evil.
...he can't pull it off.
Anakin's path to the Dark Side just isn't believable. He goes from being confused and petulent in the morning to killing little children in the evening? Based on what? Certainly not the limited dialogue and character development we see on screen.
His reasoning for wanting to save Padme isn't explored enough. Hell Lucas could have just been a little more concrete and gien Padme a medical condition that *would* have killed her in childbirth. That would have been more believable than a dream that Aniken has.
The main problem really is that Lucas doesn't have the writing nor the directorial skills to explore this type of emotional material. His actors are always wooden and deliver really badly written lines with flat performances. This movie is no exception and its no surprise that the path from Aniken to Darth vader just isn't believable.
The movie looks nice but Lucas should stick to pulp sci-fi and avoid anything than hints of emotion or depth
Now.. here's something that did bug me. Luke lost his hand to Darth Vader in Episode IV? or was it V.. anyways.. he loses his hand.. and he gets a nice little replacement where you can't tell the fake apart from his real one? his dad gets a hand transplant.. and it looks like he's carrying a brick. I thought the explanation for the Prequels having better visual effects was that the clone wars destroyed much of the technology.. so episode 4,5,6 had worse technologies then ep. 1,2,3... why exactly does Darth Vader get jipped.. aside from the fact that he's the bad guy. you gotta pick one.. do they have better.. or worse technologies. Alien.
You know, I was going to do the spelling correction bit, but this -
ends up saving Anakin's sole
is priceless.
"Dad, I caught the fish you lost!"
Why do I M2 everything negatively?
OK, so I'm not going to see Ep3. Once everyone saw the direction Lucas was going with Ep1, I don't know why there is so much speculation and discussion about the new trilogy: it was clear they were always going to suck.
- We already know the storyline: Anakin is Luke's father etc. Therefore, as you've thrown all suspense or surprise out the window to start with, you have to either do something interesting with the story that doesn't effect the future or have a really good cast/script to keep things interesting. Lucas doesn't bother with any of that. Instead, he just ploddingly lays out the story and throws in a few fight scenes and pointless pod races.
- Trained Light-side Jedi are really boring characters. Sanctimonious, smug, unemotional, basically never breaking a sweat. Ep4-6 get round this by effectivelt never having any: Obi-wan is killed off quick, Yoda only appears briefly, Luke is untrained and learning and generally very un-Jedi like. Eps1-3 are full of Light side Jedi being dull and knowing.
- CGI. Ep4-6 were made before the current CGI craze. The ships, locations with people in therefore look generally real: dirty, scratched and solid. In EpI-III everything is CGI and looks unreal. No matter how good the CGI is, it can't look as real as reality.
- The backstory is weak: it just about held an audience's attention when it was just background to the action, but bring it to the foreground and it becomes dull. Star Wars was just a fun space opera with a large backstory. EpI-III try to pretend it's more than that. It's the same as The Matrix and its sequels: the story was just about good enough to cover one film, attempt to stretch it beyond that and it starts to show its holes.
I see many posts saying how bad the actors were. Most of them are some of the best actors around. In other movies they are extremely talented.
The problem is with the directing. Lucas seems to MAKE them do such a bad job.
Elsewhere in the posts there is discusson about how good the Spanish version is compared to the English version. I'm sure that was because the voice actors didn't have Lucas directing them.
Does anyone know why the acting is so bad in 1-3 and decent to good in 4-6? What made him go this route?
If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. - James Madison
My general reaction to a general release movie (as opposed to some really cool indy stuff that really does get my brain going...) is usually a simple good, okay, bad, or horrible. If you have to deeply analyze it to figure out why it was good or bad, you've overcomplicated a simple question.
I give Ep 3 a definite good. Maybe there were problems with the writing, etc., but I ENJOYED watching it. If you just go in, sit back, and try to just watch it and enjoy it as entertainment, then it's good to great - much better than 1 or 2.
I'll have to admit, when Ani goes to meet Palpatine at that fish-bubble show, I thought as soon as he entered: "Oh no... Here comes Lucas' sci-fi Opera attempt". I'm still trying to get over the diva scene from the Fith Element.
...
You must be new here.
Probably not, but it's a really sad state of affairs here at SlashDot. More and more it seems how articles are more to plug certain favored people's opinions and products than actually providing a place for intelligent people to have a forum about news items.
spoiler...
For me, the main plot surprise of Ep VI was the path to immortality as discovered Qi-Gonn (related by Yoda)... this explains what Obi-wan was doing on Tattooine all those years, and contrasts very nicely with Palpatine's claims that the dark side leads to immortality (Darth Plagus etc.)
Also explains how Obi-wan was able to say to Vader "strike me down and I'll become more powerful than you could possibly imagine", without Vader understanding what he meant.
that to me, as a Force junkie, was worth the price of, um, my DSL connection
I have run into people who thoroughly enjoy picking apart movies. Not so much because the movie is bad, but because it makes them feel good about themselves that they weren't taken in by a move that everyone else liked. That they were too smart to get taken in like everyone else. It feeds their own superiority to point out every mistake in a movie and how everyone else is inferior for liking such an obviously bad movie. They are also the same type of people who sit in the window of a restaurant so they can talk about everyone that walks past. They don't do things because they want to, but to make fun of the people who do.
For what it is, Episode III is a good movie. It is no where near as bad as Battlefield Earth. It may not be exactly like the original trilogy, but if you get over the fact that we no longer live in the late 70's early 80's you will see that the movie is good.
you completely misunderstood my point. Or perhaps I didn't explain clearly enough. I didn't suggest that we re-introduce all the characters, or that each movie stand on its own, but that we look at the pros and cons of this film without letting the pros/cons from the other movies interfere with it.
Think of 6 lights clustered together. When together, they make a bright light, but how much is each individual light contributing to the collective brightness? I would call episodes I, II, and III the dimmest bulbs of the bunch by far, and far dimmer than most movies made today (and even those can be pretty horrible). If it weren't for the previous movies, crap like this would never see the light of day.
"2. how did they manage to make a woman as beautiful as Natalie Portman look so bad?"
I thought that was a testament to what marriage and pregnancy does to a woman. I read somewhere that Ed O'neil was a consultant for that movie.
"Derp de derp."
After all but completely ruining the Star Wars story by coming out with episodes I and II, Lucas blew the perfect opportinity to redeem himself with ROTS.
Here's how Anakin should have gone over to the dark side:
-----
(Palpatine and Anakin are conversing in the Chancellor's office.)
Palpatine: The dark side will make you powerful beyond your wildest dreams. Join me. Become my apprentice. Come over to the dark side.
Anakin: What must I do to become a sith lord?
(Doors open and Jar-Jar lopes in)
Jar-Jar: Hewo Annie! Meesa was tinkin dat...
(Cut to head shot of Anakin, obviously furious that Jar-Jar has interrupted the conversation at such a crucial moment)
Palpatine: (With great disgust) Release your hatred!
(Anakin grabs Jar-Jar with the force and slams him head-first into the ceiling. Simultaneously, he releases Jar-Jar and whips out his light saber, slicing the @#$%! Gungan into tiny bits before he hits the ground.)
Palpatine: (Barely audible over the wild cheers ocurring in theaters across the globe) Well-done, young Skywalker. Your journey to the dark side is now complete.
This isn't the sig you're looking for...
SPOILER ALERT
Everyone else has replied to this but I wanted to add that, for the record, Vader does get his remaining natural arm sliced off, as well as his legs at the knee. He leaps at Obi-Wan and Obi-Wan takes all three limbs off with one clean sweep.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
"Did George Lucas provide a scene (in "Revenge of the Sith") where Darth Vader's own right hand was sliced off? If the answer is "yes", then Lucas has remained true to the original trilogy."
His hand was sliced off in episode 2 by Dooku, and this fact was used by Palpatine/Sidious to goad Anakin into killing Dooku for purposes of revenge when he had him as an unarmed prisoner!
Perhaps if you actually watched the movies, you could be considered a score above 2 commentor; as is, you trolled some ignorant mods. Good day to you!
--
Internet Explorer (n): Another bug -- that is, a feature that can't be turned off -- in Windows.
I'm going to take this from my friends view. He has a deeper insight into justifying things than I.
EpI was a story about a whiny obnoxious kid. It worked very well. EpI was also about getting a young audience, hence all the silly (abnoxious) Gungans and Jar-Jar, the Gungan NERF energy weapons, and the giant fish hokey pokey.
EpII was about a whiny obnoxious teenager. If you can stretch your memory back that far, you'll remember that you too were an angst ridden bitch at Anakins age in this movie. So that acting was rather good.
EpIII is about an insecure, hubris filled, young adult. And Hayden acted accordingly. The love scenes were realistic in Real World standards, but not in the faux real Hollywood way that we come to expect from Hollywood. Awkward, silly, but genuine. Hayden played the fall to the dark side really well, having genuine emotional motives for becomeing badass, but got trapped. The story is great. (sure, Lucas sort of kludged a couple bits, but it's Lucas what do you expect?) Vader killing the children was the best part of the movie, it was tastefully done, and really made clear what a bitch Vader is (because of love).
Also if you examine the story arc, you see some very nice deeper messages, that would have made Cambell proud. The misinterpretted prophecy (which was true), the fall of the Jedi because of their own hubris, and the fall(rise) of Vader because of his. Even when the Emperor talks of peace...
I loved this movie. It tied in really well with epIV too, there is only ONE plot hole that cannot be easily explained. Obi-Wan does not recognize the droids. And it makes certain things make sense too, like the odd smirk Obi-Wan gives Luke before he lets Vader kill him.
There were other problems with continuity, but their easily explained away. Like Laea telling Obi-Wan that he served under her father during the Clone Wars, but he adopted father was a Senator, so that makes sense. The fact that the Stormtroopers have different charactoristics from Jango makes sense too, if you accept that they used different templates between III and IV.
A patriot must always be ready to defend his country against his government. -edward abbey
Acting aside, special effects aside, story line aside, There were only two moments in the film where I truly enjoyed myself, the first whas when the counsel told Aniken that they would not make him a master and he replied "What?!", I nearly fell off my seat laughing because all I could envision was SL Jackson quickly changing roles and saying "You heard me MotherFucker!". It was the perfect camera change to that perfect look on SL Jacksons face.
The second best line was when the Dark Lord called Yoda, "My little green friend." I could not help but see him as Tony Montanya sitting behind a huge pile of cocaine.
Did I like the film, well in short, no, in long, noooooooooooooooo!
flinging poop since 1969
I was a huge fan years ago, and now my friends love it when I go into a rant about why episode I was bad, they find it fun, even those who still are huge fans. I might have to steal the "inbred tie-ins" phrase, it is very good!
All those little tie-ins for the fans, but Lucas has been telling us it was aimed at the next generation of fans.
And then it got really silly when baby Gredo turns up.
Perhaps the "prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the Force" was misinterpreted after all: Perhaps the prophecy was really fulfilled not by Anakin destroying the Sith order, but by Luke humanizing the Jedi ethic.
At the beginning of episode1, there are thousands of Jedis, and 2 Sith.
At the beginning of episode4, there are 2 Jedis, and 2 Sith.
Anakin brought balance to the Force.
You can't take the sky from me...
Anakin went to the Chancellor simply because Anakin always felt like the Jedi were treating him like a child, where as the chancellor was treating Anakin how Anakin wanted to be treated. For example, Chancellor gets Anakin on the the council, The council refuses to give him status as a master. The Jedi then go as far as to ask him to spy on the chancellor. From Anakin's point of view, the chancellor was becoming his friend more and more where as the Jedi were distrusting him and thinking he was getting ahead of himself. Not to mention that the Chancellor was a Sith Lord and obviously already had some kind of control over Anakin which was demonstrated in the beginning of the movie when Anakin won the fight and the Chancellor told Anakin to kill him. Despite Anakin not wanting to kill him, he still did simply because the Chancellor said to. This demonstrated that the Chancellor had more control over Anakin then was thought.
I keep finding that most of the things people complain about in these movies are simply because they didn't follow it through, missed something, interpreted something wrong, or didn't understand the full implication of some prior action. George Lucas did a more or less flawless job in keeping his story straight and people just need to accept this. If the movies don't seem like they had the same impact as they did 15-20 years ago maybe...just maybe, that is because you are 15 years older and view life in a different light. Call me crazy, but most of slashdot's complaints can be summed up in "But this seemed so much better and made so much more sense when I saw the first trilogy" which shows nothing but the fact that they've grown up and their imaginations have died a little.
Regards,
Steve
1. Obi-Wan is still called Obi-Wan after twins are born, and yet in Ep IV he states that he hasn't gone by that name "Since before you were born"
2. Obi-Wan tells Luke in Ep IV that his father wanted him to have his light sabre when he was old enough. Unless I missed something, Annakin never gave Obi-Wan his light sabre, let alone told him to pass it along to his son.
3. Not really a continuity error but - don't they have ultrasounds in a galaxy far far away? Why did Padme not know she was having twins until the last minute?
4. OK, so C3PO's memory was wiped (a cheat, if you ask me). But what about R2D2's memory? And in Ep III Obi-Wan interacts extensively with both droids, and yet HIS memory isn't wiped - in Ep IV he doesn't recognize the robots at all.
Here are some of my thoughts that I wrote in another venue after seeing EpIII opening night. I'm all ears if anyone wants to talk me out of my opinion, though....
...oh, and did General Grievous sound *exactly* like Dark Helmet to anyone else?
I was really very, very surprised to see how many people liked RoTS. Personally, it goes at the bottom of the Star Wars list for me (though, admittedly I've never seen the Christmas Special). Here's a bit on why I feel that way:
With the same major events and the same cast I think it could have been a great movie, but the writing... the writing sucked. And the writing (and editing... again) killed it. I've heard a lot of people complain about the acting, but really I don't think it was the cast's fault at all. I don't think anyone could have done better with the what they were given.
I agree with ferrett that the way Sidious lures Anakin over has good elements, but even so there just wasn't enough there to explain Anakin's transition internally. There has to be more than "I really really love you and I don't want you to die" to make the transition to "I would kill children (err, sorry, 'younglings'.. wtf?) for you" believable and I just didn't see it. And no, one fit of rage in exacting vengance for your mother's rape/murder does not qualify you for the wholesale massacre business.
And then there was the dialogue. Not only was a vital element of character development missing, but the rest of the movie was just klunkily executed. I felt like RoTS alternated between grand, elaborate battle sequences that were so grand and so elaborate that after the 40th minute they just got dull and "exposition" scenes that beat the audience over the head with dialogue a middle schooler could have written. The acting looked bad because they weren't allowed to act. There was _no_ subtext in the whole thing, just lots and lots of TEXT.
And this complaint is not limited to the worse-than-AoTC "romance" scenes:
Yoda talking like an action hero? If dialogue like "Not if anything to say about it I have"??? had shown up in a Star Wars parody I would have laughed at how amusingly out of place it was, but here he is in the climax of the film! He might as well have said "kick your ass, I will" like in all the icons.
Oh and another example of TEXT, did anybody catch that extremely subtle nod to Frankenstein in Vader's "rebirth" scene? It was easy to miss... if you were a blind monkey with multiple advanced degrees in not getting things. But as if that wasn't bad enough, here we have the crux of the entire series, arguably the most important moment in all six movies, where the last of Anakin dies and Darth Vader is truly born and how is it expressed? "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!". The ultimate cliche'. Bloody hell, I have no words.
And then there's things like Padme being diagnosed by a medical droid with having lost the will to live. Like we weren't expected to get even THAT all by ourselves? The reason this movie goes to the bottom of the barrel for me is that while Phantom Menace was bad, at least I didn't feel constantly insulted while watching it.
So yeah, those're my $0.02. As far as I'm concerned, IV-VI are Star Wars. The rest are just Fanfics that Lucas wrote.
In Spiderman 1 [...] the defying-physics stuff actually worked
No it didn't. Not for me, and to enough people that I ended up seeing an interview with the SFX guys defending their work on this.
They didn't understand why people didn't like the effect. They took some high speed footage of people doing acrobatics, and based their animations on that... they think people should love it.
The reason why so many people didn't like that is that he's supposed to have the speed and agility of a spider, not of a guy on fast-forward.
Now, obviously they did it this way because it was the easiest, fastest, cheapest way to get the job done... they had a deadline to meet. You have the guy going in fast forward, no time wasted observing the movement of spiders or anything fancy like that.
Same reason why the Green Goblin had a power rangers suit and helmet instead of the rubber mask and cowled cape he's always had: Hard plastic is MUCH easier to animate photorealistically than flapping rubber masks and ragged capes.
You can't take the sky from me...
Wrong. "Episode IV: A New Hope" was added after "Empire Strikes Back" was greenlit.
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
I have come to the conclusion that the vast majority of /. does not understand this movie.
Here's one tip: Pick up an attention span.
Ever notice that the star wars universe hasn't evolved the sophisticated, space-age technology of the hand or balcony rail? While we're on the subject, they build the most deadly blade-like weapons imaginable and then forget to include little details like hilts. Then again in a universe populated by so many individual life forms I guess it makes sense to let safety take a back seat so that nature can cull the herd of the exceptionally stupid.
As far as I recall, there were plenty of limbs being cut off throughout the movie.
"Hey look, it's Stubby, the flaming torso!"
'Yes, firefox is indeed greater than women. Can women block pops up for you? No. Can Firefox show you naked women? Yes.'
"If you don't try, you don't know whether you will do or do not." - me
This is the Constitution.This is the Constitution under the Bush administration. Any questions?
BZZZZT WRONG!
and b) it was always episode 4.
WRONG AGAIN!
The first few seconds of the movie (even in the original theatrical release) make that very clear.
STRIKE THREE! Kindly turn in your geek card at the front desk. The initial theatrical release of Star Wars was *just that*, "Star Wars". There was neither "Episode IV", nor was there "A NEW HOPE" attached to the opening crawl. These weren't added until the 1979-1980 re-release to build up the excitement for "Empire".
Xenon, where's my money? -Borno
Saga also works nicely.
Would it have hurt the story to have had Mace Windu (or some other Jedi) be the one who discovers the clone factory in Ep 2, instead of Obi-Wan being the only Jedi who ever does anything that matters? Did it really need to be Boba Fett's dad who was the genetic source of the clones? Did Chewie really need to be in the Wookie battle scene at all?
You miss the point of the entire Prequel Trilogy. It is the backstory to the Original Trilogy, not just the story that came before the Original Trilogy.
Why is Boba Fett from the original trilogy the best bounty hunter in the galaxy? His dad was once the greatest; he happened to be chosen to be a source for clones.
Why is Obi-Wan depicted in the original trilogy to be one of the best Jedi; what accomplishments led him to this title? Back in the day, he did this, that, and some of those things.
Why is Chewie a famous wookie? He fought hard back in the Battle of Kashyyyk, his name known all around.
Why did Lucas think that all of these little "wink wink" connections would make the films more entertaing?
They are the connections that tell us why we love the characters from the original trilogy so much: the Prequel Trilogy is their story.
I realized something when I watched ROTS: Star Wars movies are really only good when the good guys are the underdogs. I'm not saying ROTS was great because it wasn't at all, but it was definitely better than the first two prequels. I found myself much more involved in the action and the struggle, simply because I knew that Obi-Wan and Yoda were the underdogs. It was the same way in the original trilogy, particularly 4 and 5.
In the first two prequels the good guys were in power. I don't want to see a movie about the Good Republic fighting rebels. I want to see a movie about rebels fighting the Evil Empire.
In the scene where Anakin prevents Windu from killing Palpatine, he utters "He is too dangerous to be kept alive" (or sth like that), which is identical to what the emperor said to him in the execution of Count Dookoo...... What would that mean to Anakin there?
--exa--
Damn I wish I had mod points, because your statements above are very insightful and 100% of how I feel about the prequels. 22 years passed between Episode IV and Episode I; 28 years with Episode III. You are not who you were 28 years ago. Lucas aimed Episodes 1 & 2 towards kids, and those of us who can still view these movies with our inner child's eyes. Lucas never claimed that these were cerebral, serious movies. They're a throwback to the old black and white serials, and in that sense, Lucas has totally succeeded.
It's better to burn out than to fade away
Yoda tells Obi-Wan that Qui-Gon learned the secret to immortality by becoming a "force ghost." He also tells Obi-Wan that he has some new training for him so Obi-Wan can also learn this ability. So if only Yoda and Obi-Wan have the training to do this, how does Anakin/Vader learn how to become the force ghost we see at the end of ROTJ? Did Sidious also have this ability?
After seeing all 6, I'm starting to think R2 is the only one with everything put together - He (She? It?) happens to save the main character(s) in every episode. Maybe R2 is intelligent enough to keep quiet about things and not tell Luke about his father because he and Obi-wan had a talk. I got the feeling that R2 going to Tantooine to Luke going to Yoda was all planned out in that final conferance between Yoda, Obi-Wan, and Organa. It wasn't just an "Oh, btw, Luke, how about you visit this guy on Dagobah..."
One thing I haven't seen discussed yet is Obi-Wan's age. I believe there are 12 years between Episode I-III and 18 between III and IV. That's a total of 30 years between I and IV. Obi-Wan looks at least mid-60s in IV, but I don't think he would have been a Padawan in Ep I much later than mid-20s, which is a differance at least 10 years?
Any Ideas?
********************
I object to Intellect without Discipline.
It's ok: In the 2010 Special Edition re-release, it gets replaced with a really good CGI lizard (think Jabba the Hutt). ...And everyone bitches about ruining the flavour of the original.
And they edit the scene in the Jedi temple so that the youngling goes for Anakin first! And the massacre was just self-defence... etc.
you had me at #!
*** Warning: Spoilers ***
-
There is continuity in the way you describe; however, it is not when Anakin loses his hand (which, as noted, happens in Episode II, and does not result in his turning). It is when (*** Last chance spoiler warning ***) he cuts off Mace Windu's hand, resulting in Windu's death. When Luke loses his hand, and then takes Darth Vader's hand, he decides to reject the dark side; when Anakin loses his arm, and then takes Windu's hand, he succumbs to the dark side.
It might also be interesting to note that Anakin's turn to the dark side, and his return from the dark side, both coincide with the lightning attacks against people close to him.
(Aside: Wasn't Anakin's sudden and complete turn completely unbelievable?? It felt like the last few scenes of the movie were very rushed. Same with Padme's too-quick rejection, and Obi-Wan's quick change from reluctance to acceptance of his assigned task to kill Anakin.)
You're getting your scifi universes mixed up...
you had me at #!
Anakin had already killed women and children in Episode 2 after his mother died. The whole mother thing is what is driving him, he has been gritting his teethe the entire time through 2 and half movies now. Anakin was fucked in the head from the start.
If it were just an inner tormoil and emotion thing you would have a point, as jedi anakin was being corrupted by the dark side of the force.
*** Warning: Spoilers ***
-
There is continuity in the way you describe; however, it is not when Anakin loses his hand (which, as noted, happens in Episode II, and does not result in his turning). It is when (*** Last chance spoiler warning ***) he cuts off Mace Windu's hand, resulting in Windu's death. When Luke loses his hand, and then takes Darth Vader's hand, he decides to reject the dark side; when Anakin loses his arm, and then takes Windu's hand, he succumbs to the dark side.
It might also be interesting to note that Anakin's turn to the dark side, and his return from the dark side, both coincide with the lightning attacks against people close to him.
(Aside: Wasn't Anakin's sudden and complete turn completely unbelievable?? It felt like the last few scenes of the movie were very rushed. Same with Padme's too-quick rejection, and Obi-Wan's quick change from reluctance to acceptance of his assigned task to kill Anakin.)
I thought we were done with that crap. Seriously. Flame away, I thought Hayden did a fine job displaying the hate and venom, even if the fall shown was too hard, too fast. I had flashbacks in the theater to VI when Vader practically spat out "Now his failure is complete." I had quibbles with III, but at the end of the day, it did it's job--to give us a (mostly) seamless transition to IV. Well done, George.
Happy goldfish bowl to you.
**SPOILER WARNING**
...but what about those plot holes? Holey moley! Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain! :P
The issue of bad acting and bad dialog has been covered.
Anakin isn't in tune enough with the force to tell Padme is pregnant but Obi-wan is, even though Darth Sidious is in tune enough to tell Anakin is in trouble from half way across the galaxy. If Mace Windu can feel a plot to destroy the Jedi, why can't the jedi sense that order 66 has been given (by sensing they are about to be betrayed and slaughtered)? Or tell that the message at the Jedi temple is a fake (by forseeing the trap awaiting them)? Since when is the force there except when it's needed?
If the Jedi had a camera in Palpatine's office then why the hell would they need a spy? Maybe the republic has some kind of privacy law that says you can tape anyone you like but you can't watch the tape without a court order.
I remember the original films has having more depth: Unexpected dangers (garbage crusher), trickery and stealth (han shot first!), and things going from bad to worse (hiding in a giant worm). For me eps 1-3 are lousy - not because everything is predestined but because the path the cookie-cutter characters follow to reach their predestined goals is so much simpler and less interesting than eps 4-6.
**Spoilers **
I agree. After he chops of the Jedi master's hand to save Darth Sidious, he instantly regrets his action and repeats "What did I do?", looking very sad and regretful of his choice two seconds later, he is swearing fealty to Darth Sidious with zero conviction ( i.e. he doesn't look to enthused to get himself a new master, but he does it anyway...why? ). This does not make sense! If he really had turned to the dark side, he would be joyful in killing the Jedi master ( like saying "That's for not making me a Jedi Master on the council!" )
Other pet peeves are the wookies making the Tarzan call in the battle of Kashyk ( however you spell it ), did Tarzan teach them that? Sound effects in space ( without air, how are the sound waves travelling? ), the little Buzz droids in the begining being blown off the wing of Annakin's ship after R2 zaps its middle eye ( again, no air in space ), the extreme lack of medical technology for birth - i.e. they could not perform a c-section or even put Padme on life support while she gave birth? How about Obi-wan having to give R2 a communicator? We have WiFi cards now, radios, etc, are you telling me these ( or something much more advanced ) didn't exist in the SW universe? Droids do not have any wireless communication devices built-in?
I could go one. Overrall I liked the movie, but these were things that bugged me while I watched it. It definitely needed to do more to convince the viewer that Annakin wanted to do want he did, instead of just following the script.
I can't afford a sig!
Sorry for the caps but the prophecy said it would bring balance to the force not weight one side of it. Without bringing the EU into it and assuming there is a light side and a Dark side. Perhaps the force was unbalanced by so many Jedi so few Sith. Anakin killed the Jedi leaving two Jedi Two sith eventually both Jedi die and so do both Sith. Now we have a new breed of Jedi much smaller than the old group who are offset by all the Evil in the Galaxy..
Take a look at who is standing next to Vader and Sidious on the bridge of the Star-Destroyer-like ship in the last scene with Vader. 1. It's a younger version of a character from Ep IV, 2. he's played by one of the better bad-guy actors in recent episodic television SF history.
Sure, he killed the whole Tuscan raider encampment in a rage in Episode II.
That's still not enough to make the Episode III conversion believable.
Code or be coded.
Chewie and Yoda were apparently aquaintances and yet the Wookie never mentioned this to Han, or if he did, despite the trust between the two of them, Han didn't consider it to be a reason to believe in the Force
Tell him what? That a greendude had a light saber? Han Solo believes in Light sabers -hell, he's even seen one!
Perhaps more grating however was the death of Padme - it was utterly unnecessary, Vader did not know if she was dead or not and so Palpatine could easily have lied and told him she was. More than that though, it contradicted Leia's recollections in Jedi - where she remembers her "real mother."
Surely she is just remembering Mrs. Organa.
Of course the other irritation with the film was the godawful dialogue
No argument there *G*
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Not to mention a cyborg w/a cough is going to have a hard time breathing in hard vacuum.
He's an evil demon because his master commands him to be. This was made clear after he saved Luke from imminent doom in VI when he threw the Emperor out the portal. After he's laying there all cooked and waiting to die, we find he's a human after all, with a soft spot for his son. He gave his life for his own son basically.
In ROTS, Darth Vader offhandedly mentions to Padme that he could become more powerful than the Emperor and overthrow him someday. Interesting that ultimately that's the way it works out. It makes me wonder if Luke had pretended to turn to the dark side, maybe Darth would have let him in on a plan to overthrow the Emperor. After all, 2 jedis are better than one, and you know that Vader had to hate being a lapdog to the Emperor.
The books which go beyond the trilogy, however, disagree. Supposedly the Emperor lives in cloned bodies, and the dark side consumes the bodies so he has to get a new one ever so often. At the point where he's thrown out, and he falls through that hole, ostensibly someone catches him and transfers his spirit into yet another clone. The Emperor never dies according to some comic books.
Or does anyone else not give a flying fuck about all these overanalysed, selfserving reviews. Not just Star Wars, but any movie.
Then don't fucking read it, you moron. Or try to waste other people's time complaining about it.
There was no Rogueish good guy like Han Solo.
What leaves me hitting my head against the wall...
Why didnt they make Bail Organa more like Han Solo or at least use him more in the second and third prequel? Jimmy Smits is a GOOD actor.
They should have let us see more of Alderann and understand just how tragic its destruction was.
Now this is an interesting thing that people keep bringing up as the failure of Sith. Hayden supposedly can't act and is acting wooden.
Um, did you guys forget that since he was a child that he was raised by aesetics that by their "laws" don't allow for the type of relationship he ended up in? That he has *no* one that he can ask how to?
And he has to hide that he's married to Padme from everyone but her droid? It's a very disfunctional marriage that I'm suprise worked as well as it did. Then throw in some nutcase who's going to use that information to turn you to the dark side. Hell, if Anikin didn't have that dream, Palpatine probably would have *manufactured* something in that vein.
Other than a nitpick with the fighters in that first scene, everthing in that movie worked for me. Some was "not the best", but none of it was "bad" to me.
No! It's a *SIG*. Keep the Special Interest Groups away! (Con joke!)
Why is Boba Fett from the original trilogy the best bounty hunter in the galaxy? His dad was once the greatest; he happened to be chosen to be a source for clones.
Except now we have the Special Edition version of Star Wars, in which Boba Fett is not "the best bounty hunter in the galaxy", but rather a full-time flunky in the personal entourage of a mob boss on a jerkwater desert planet in the middle of nowhere.
Why is Obi-Wan depicted in the original trilogy to be one of the best Jedi
He wasn't. He just happened to be one of the only ones left.
Why is Chewie a famous wookie?
He wasn't. Chewie was the co-pilot of a derelict smuggler who dumps his cargo at the first sign of trouble.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
I noticed that the parts of Revenge that are filmed on an actual set, the that being the Corelian Corvette, seem much more natural. It actualy seemed like the actors were somewhere, their was a sense of space. As opposed to the actors appearing to be photoshoped in. Also after Ankin becomes Darth did you notice how everything seemed to take about 20 year technological step backward. Holographic displays are replaced with big plastic buttons. I wish all three of the prequals were made that way.
Does anyone else out there still think of Alderaan as "Basketball"?
I got a different feeling from when he stops to look at his hand- more than he realises he has a lot in common with vader, and remembers the dream in the dark cave where he had become a sith lord, and that is what reminds him he'd better pull his horns in.
Send lawyers, guns, and money!
As his song goes:
I like it, I love it, I want some more of it.
--Friends don't let friends do frames.
Also, all the precious little inbred tie-ins to the the original series (C3PO was built by Anakin, "Red Five" was Obi-Wan's call sign, Chewbaca fought along with Yoda, etc. etc. etc.) were really tiresome, and had the impact of making what should have been a large-scale saga about a galactic struggle of mighty armies turn into a story where the fate of all civilizations for two entire generations were married to the actions of the same small small handful of people, many of whom were directly related.
But that was always the way it was in StarWars. In Firefly its the ordinary unknowns that history forgets - but in StarWars it was royalty and those appointed by fate.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
In a world where nearly everyone uses Windows, the idea of a machine - including a government-owned machine - being totally open to intruders is hardly novel. It is only too believable.
Sorry to disagree, but I think it was the reverse.
It was 1977, and a still impressionable Bill the Nerd saw the original Star Wars and had an epiphany: "So all computer technology must have vulnerabilities!"
That one event explains ActiveX being designed after the vulnerable nature of the Internet was already explicitly obvious, and MSWindows being a security nightmare after various Unixes demonstrated how file access control should work.
I spend my life entertaining my brain.
I thought the movie was enjoyable but the thing that bugged me was how easily the Jedi got whipped. We've seen how 1 or 2 Jedi knights can take out many opponents yet the hundreds of knights and masters at the temple get taken out just like that!
If I were in charge of designing and building a massive space ship for a routhless psycopath and the manager over me has a habbit of killing people who piss him off.
I'd use off the shelf proven standards systems and I'd drop anything (and I mean ANYTHING) not entirely vital to making the ship work.
Such as wepons to repell small fighters. I mean who in there right mind attacks a moon sized ship in tiny fighters?
Oh yeah... I have an endless supply of storm troupers to defend everything. I've got phisical security down pat so what do I need electronic security for?
After all if only a R2 unit can access the computers it's not a problem. R2 units don't have personalitys. After each flight they get wiped. You don't let them develup indupendence.
Oh sure occasonally a an R2 unit saves roialty and is preserved or a nutty pilot gets attached to his. However that is the exception rather than the rule.
However an R2 with a complex personality can pritty much punch a hole in security systems. It's the ability to outsmart the much simpler lock.
Of course I wouldn't include one becouse that would slow down develupment of the death star.
The empire learns. By eppisode 6 the empire is using security codes and shields.
The rebels fully expect an old frighter code to still work becouse the Empire hasn't been very smart about security in the past.
However instead of just blindly accepting the code the security officer calles the emperor.
The original death star, No codes, no security officer and hotline to the emperor should something odd happen.
The new super death star, shields, codes, security officer, emperor using the force to recognise what is going on.
I don't actually exist.
Actually, in the 1980 or so time frame I remember something about the saga in a way really being about the robots - they were supposed to be the only characters in all 9 (or at one time, 12) movies. Bottom line - Lucas has been making things up as he goes along. I'm sure he'd be the first to admit it.
Mr. Lucas, is that you ?
Wait, what am I thinking? You make claims to know what great dialog is.
It's certainly clear that Lucas didn't intend to start in the middle. The original name for the first Star Wars film, before it was called Star Wars, before Lucas filmed a single shot, was "Adventures of the Star Killer: Episode I". My guess is that when it came time to plan the rest of the movies, Lucas had realised there was already a significant, implied, backstory (who is Darth Vader? The last remnants of what Republic had been wiped away? What happened?), and so starting with ANH being "Episode I" wouldn't, chronologically, make a lot of sense.
As far as Leia and Luke being brother and sister goes, I really don't know, but it's clear that Lucas was working on a rough idea when he was putting together the films rather than some already written story that was nine volumes in size. On a more minor note, for example, the character of Bobba Fett was originally supposed to be a storm trooper.
That said, I doubt the "romance" was ever supposed to be between Luke and Leia. Lucas is old fashioned in terms of the stories he tells - ANH owes more to Flash Gordon than 2001: A Space Odyssey, and the cliche being set up in ANH is of the fiesty woman hating the obnoxious guy, to eventually blossom into romance. Given that, Luke's an unlikely romantic partner for Leia, compared to Han Solo, and the film doesn't exactly have any genuinely romantic moments in it. In that sense, I think it's "obvious" (precisely because nothing comes of any interaction between the heroes and heroine) that Lucas never intended ANH to be the end of the story. There's a love story in the original Star Wars trilogy, and it's not in ANH. The story is about love between Leia and Han. It's obvious that this was intended right from the beginning.
Not that there's a smoking gun here showing Leia and Luke are siblings. I just don't think the situation is as black and white as you suggest. It's quite credible this was originally something Lucas had in mind, but it's also clear that it wasn't something he'd have considered important at the time: when ANH was made, it had to be as self contained as possible. Little hints are dropped here and there that suddenly make sense in the next two films, Uncle Owen is afraid of Luke ending up like his father, but it seems an over-reaction in context until the subsequent films when you find out who's Luke's father. Beyond that, it wasn't exactly something Lucas could get away with. A film that you have to wait for the sequel to make sense of isn't going to be commercially viable.
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
So whatever else may or may not be true about the siblings thing, the issue with Vader not detecting Leia's use of the force has nothing to do with it. Actually, from what I recall, Leia doesn't know anything about her ability to use the force until Luke tells her in RotJ, which is probably why Vader doesn't detect anything.
That's in the current version of the movies anyway (or at least the "remastered" versions from the mid-nineties. I haven't seen the DVD versions.) Presumably there's a remake in the works to explain why Obi-Wan doesn't remember the droids (ANH) or the existance of Leia and her likely ability to use the force (ESB)...
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
But still - the worst parts of Episode III for me:
It galls the geek in me to say so, but there were too many special effects. Too much shit flying around for anything to have meaning or pathos. Give it a rest, George.
And there was nothing fun.
They say Spielburg cried at the end of an adance screening. Obviously tears of frustration. The muddled end of what should have been a brilliant epic.
This is my post. There are many others like it. If you don't like what you read here, go try one of the others.
Overall, RotS was enjoyable and while not a classic by any stretch, it was worth the price of admission (but not refreshments). Except for... Anakin v. Obi-Wan. After I watched it in theaters, I obtained the infamous time-coded copy of the fight, edited out all the Yoda-Palpatine parts, and watched it as a continuous 6.5 minute sequence. On that note, two things come to mind. 1) The fight works a LOT better that way. I mean, a LOT better. There's an overall flow and energy and it's much easier to actually see the story of that battle (Anakin's arrogance v. Obi-Wan's wisdom). After I first saw it, I had originally complained that the fight was basically 30 seconds of contact and 10 minutes of running around. With this constructed sequence, I can see that there's actually a good 4 minutes or so of action. 2) The one thing I HATE HATE HATE HATE about Lucas's directing style is his insistence on using close ups during hand-to-hand combat sequences. Whenever people are moving, shots should always be framed either wide or medium in order to capture the action. Saber locks are okay for closeups because there's no movement, but I really hate the way he flits from one face to other while they're clashing. A skilled director (re: anyone BUT Lucas) can capture emotion during hand-to-hand comabt sequences without resorting to over-over two shots, as if he were shooting a conversation. I have to admit that it wasn't as bad in movie as it was in AotC, where the original Anakin/Dooku fight was ruined because 90% of shot up close.
The guy who doesn't know how to spell or punctuate properly decides to become an English teacher! Wow! Or maybe you are a lifeless, pathetic, pathetic, pathetic, pedantic troll. I see you took my advice, accepted your wrongness and actually put the period inside the speech marks this time. Well learnt. The next thing for you to learn will be how to be a normal contributing member of society. Unfortunately for you, and fortunately for the rest of us, that will never happen. Now STFU and go get a life :D Don't worry, we all know that won't happen either, but maybe the Chinese will take you in?
The darth maul fight is one of the best fights I've ever seen in any film.
Want to see an amazing sword fight on film? Go rent Sword of Doom. That film is seriously fucked up. --M
Instead of going around trying to correct others' mistakes, why don't you correct your life, since all you do is sit around reading slashdot and looking at peoples' spellings, it is a damned pathetic waste of a human existence.
There is no hope for you, you troll. I can see why you are so frustrated.
Much like the Matrix and Lord of the Rings so called sequels, I'll never consider Episode II and II as part of the original story.
The funny thing is that he's using a PowerBook or some other Apple notebook and he issues an ftp command from an Unix shell.
I suppose that Jeff's character, being a hardcore scientist, coded the virus in plain C.
Therefore, the problem isn't that alien technology is so easily owned but that they haven't been able to come up with something better than ftp and vulnerability to buffer overruns!!!!
I just lost faith in extraterrestrial intelligent life by watching that movie....
Clearly their starfighter technology is quite a bit worse, since every spaceship in 1-3 is quite a bit Gay-er than any of the rebel ships in 4-6. Okay, so the naboo court ships were cool, and the naboo fighter wasn't terrible, but those god-awful jedi-fighters? Or clone fighters? I've made cooler ships out of legos.
The standard imperial star destroyers seemed quite stout too, clearly they're supposed to be better than the trade federation flying donuts, and they also look somewhat better than the "victory class" in Ep 3. Although apperantly capital ships can survive atmosphere in ep 1-3, which might be a lost tech by ep 4.
SPOILERS!
Consider this.
Darth Tyranus (Dooku) slices off Anakin's hand. Anakin battles Tyranus in Palpatine's (the Emperor) presence. He is goaded into using his anger, the Dark Side, to defeat Tyranus. He slices off both of Tyranus' hands. He then executes Tyranus, though he can sense how wrong it is.
Darth Vader (Anakin) slices off Luke's hand. Luke battles Vader in the Emperor's (Palapatine) presence. He is goaded into using his anger, the Dark Side, to defeat Vader. He slices off one of Vader's hands. But he resists the urge to execute Vader.
That is where the true continuity came in to play, IMHO. It is also the beginning of Anakin's fall. I did not find Anakin's turn to be sudden, but a result of his actions throughout the movie. It is just my opinion, however.
The cancel button is your friend. Do not hesitate to use it.
First off. There is an inner conflict with Anakin while he is Darth Vader. It is what eventually allows him to come back to the goodside.
Anakin's motive is love. He is excited about his wife, and child.
Why then is he able to slaughter younglings. Seems to me the snap was just too sudden, from turning over the emperor, to killing younglings in a couple of hours.
If his motivation is Padme how could he even choke her at all nevermind the 30 seconds that he does?
Why do the other Jedi not sense the disturance in the force? Why only Yoda?
Why does Yoda see it black and white? Why must he go into exile because he failed?
Does Revenge of the sith fill in the gaps? Yes. Does it lead nicely to Episode 4? Yes. Does it contradict the true story from episodes 4,5,6 ? Yes.
A lot of the actors in this movie are world class, not the brad pit wantabe that played Anakin. It almost as if Lucas made the others act cheesy so the Anakin actor wouldn't look so bad. The dialog was about par with a soap opera.
Actually, I think lucas just forgot how to direct actors.
R2-D2 is obviously a direct instrument of the Force.
Technoli
Actually, the poster is right. Lucas himself had not decided that Luke and Leia were twins when he made the original Star Wars. As anyone who has followed the production of this last trilogy closely knows, Lucas doesn't have much down in concrete when he starts making a movie.
He was telling Mace "he should go to trial" so that Palpatine could teach him how to keep Padme alive. He didn't actually care about the trial and was only using that as an excuse.
I think he said something to the effect of "I need him [Palpatine]" during that whole ordeal. I don't know how much more obvious they could have made the situation.
I LOATHED IT!
While I am pissed at the money wasted, I am really pissed that I WASTED my time on this piece of shit.
It was aweful. The plot. what there was of it, was more than utterly mangled by the dialog, what there was of it.
The audio sucked and the overall amateurishness of the peformances was eclipsed only by the overuse of the C.G.
This dog deserves a slow and painful death.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Is anyone aware that the best of the original three Star Wars films, Empire Strikes Back, was not directed by Lucas? It was directed by Irvin Kershner, and Return of the Jedi was not directed by Lucas either (Richard Marquand directed). Lucas was on the sets to supervise the production, but they did the actual directing. I've seen too many people credit him with making ALL six movies, when the only good ones he's directed are A New Hope and arguably (or perhaps increasingly not so) Revenge of the Sith.
You are only as much as what you do with what you know.
I'm thinking the phrase, "You are very wise", is Jedi code for, "What are you, fucking stupid?"
Is it just me, or have events over the last few weeks led to the number 66 replacing 42 as the most important number in geekdom?
Understanding is a three edged sword. - Ambassador Kosh Naranek, Babylon 5
At a particular "secure" power plant, one security tester found....
1) Even tho the steel door was indeed going to be hard to get past, the drywall next to it was easily punched through.
2) Even tho the "man trap" did indeed close automatically, he could easily jump up, grab the edge and climb out.
3) Even tho the site was high security, he simply asked the person ahead of him to hold open the door for him since his hands were full with a couple empty boxes.
---
So, I won't fault the empire there little pecadillos.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Over all though, the CG is sweet. It's definitely not perfect. I'm no movie critic but even I noticed some mess ups. Lot's of shadow mess ups.
Both of these reviews are terrible
Can't disagree with you there. Here's a draft of a review/analysis I'm working on (comments welcome). It's aimed at the Star Wars fan who's seen the movie. If that's not you, stop reading.
Revenge of The Sith delivers movie excitement, emotion, and experience not seen since The Empire Strikes Back. Ignoring obvious physics issues (e.g. the artificial gravity as the carrier lilted in low-earth orbit, the ambient heat over a lava flow) and some too-cute moments (excessive squawking of and irrelevant pans to the feathered dinosaur steed, or the "no I love you more" scene), overall, Revenge of The Sith is an excellent movie. The craft of movie making, the special effects (excepting the human/CGI cuts in the Count Duku rescue scene), the music, even most of the acting - all deserve an 8/10 rating or better. We also get an excellent new character, Senator Organa - the prequels' Han Solo. Revenge of The Sith has a captivating story and is emotionally involving - more than half of the ladies leaving the theater at the showing I attended were in tears, wrapped up in a bundle of thoroughly-stretched heartstrings. The guys hid it somewhat better.
That said, Revenge of The Sith is bad Star Wars.
First, there are jarring characterization inconsistencies. The ObiWan we've grown to know, even until the very end of the fight on Mustafa would have killed Anakin mercifully. You don't love somebody as your brother and then just let them die a slow agonizing death - especially if you're a Jedi. ObiWan wasn't after revenge or punishment - he genuinely cared about saving Anakin. He learned it wasn't possible, but that was his great disappointment, not a source of anger.
Next, Anakin's surrender to the Dark Side is without explanation - yes, Windu was going too far, and deserved to have his hand taken, but then without segue Anakin pledges his allegiance to Palpatine. He later says he thought Windu was assassinating Palpatine, but Windu explained his actions and if Anakin suddenly decided at that point that the Jedi Order was corrupt, despite his years of training and his force-enhanced ability to sort out truth from lies, he didn't mention it. He has reason to doubt the Jedi Council but not enough to completely distrust Windu. Perhaps if Windu had attacked him, we might consider it plausible, but Windu is clearly on Anakin's side until the end. The *entire point* of Revenge of The Sith is to explain Anakin's conversion to the Dark Side - and apparently it's on the cutting room floor.
Next, we have a torrent of events in conflict with the original trilogy:
ObiWan is not supposed to know about Leia. This is demonstrated in ESB when Luke is leaving Dagobah: ObiWan: "That Boy is our last hope" - Yoda: "No, there is another." Even after 16 years of communication with Yoda, until that point ObiWan didn't know about Leia - Yoda was keeping one last ace up his sleeve. Yoda's character was handled fairly well in the prequels and we could believe this kind of maneuvering from Yoda. ObiWan's lack of knowledge about Leia could have been handled pretty easily - have the ship under attack as Padme is laboring and have Obi Wan grab Luke and bolt, leaving Padme (and unbeknownst to him Leia) in Yoda's care. Speaking of which, are we to believe Padme hasn't seen a medical droid during her entire pregnancy such that she wouldn't have known she was carrying twins? Or did her instincts tell her to keep that from Anakin?
Speaking of Jedi inconsistencies, Yoda indicates that Qui Gon has achieved an ability unique, or at least highly unusual for a Jedi - he learned to commune with the living through The Force. Clearly he's going to teach this ability to Yoda and ObiWan over the next 16 years; so how in blazes does Anakin manage to show up for the group photo at the end of RoTJ?
At times Yoda is handled brilliantly - when he knocks the Imperial guards unconscious or defends himself from the Clones at the Wookie outpost. Then he ge
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
My sentiments exactly. Especially regarding Hayden Christiansen's acting. Look at the f'in character he was playing... Given his circumstances, I would expect him to be *BE* somewhat "wooden."
// TODO: Insert Cool Sig
You don't think the ships in the original tril are better than the ships in ep1-3?
... while not exactly a spring chicken sure has a LOT of hit points!
Lets see: Trade Federation Droid Control ship versus Imperial Star Destroyer: I'll take the Star Destroyer. Maybe I'm biased because I have the lego ^^
X-wing versus any fighter in ep1-3: X-wing.
Death star versus -uh- nothing in that class.
Super Star Destroyer versus ?
Okay, vanilla TIE fighters are weak. But TIE interceptors look pretty neato.
I have to admit though, that all the Naboo VIP shuttles are da bomb, and totally outclass the Imperial shuttles.
And the millinium falcon
We're not going backwards. We're going forward as planned, right into Lucas's master plan. Just wait for them to release Star Wars Extra Extended Platinum coated Gold Edition! Now completely re-rendered for a fully immersive digital expierience that show just how dirty and technical his new Lucasfilm SF installation can make things!
Yes, the wipes were truly awful(squares, the jaws opening), and were out of place in such a hyped movie. I would have gone for simple crossfading of scenes.
BZZZZT! WRONG
If you'd see Empire of Dreams, you would see that A New Hope WAS the original title of the episode.
Alan Ladd and 20th Century Fox woudn't have promoted the movie if it did have the Episode 4 because it would have confused the 1977 public.
I had a Sci-Fi magazine from the 70's that clearly stated then that in George Lucas' words:
-Star Wars was a 6 episode story arc. He contemplated 9 but never committed.
-Darth Vader wears a suit because he fell in a volcano.
-Darth Vader always had twin children. (this was printed before Empire, right after the original release of the first Star Wars movie). I don't think he originally had Leia as the daughter because Leia plants a rather incestous kiss on her brother in Empire Strikes Back.
if you steal from one source, that is plagiarism, if you steal from many, well, that's just research.
I agree that the beginning sucked. This was, obviously, the first thing that irritated me about the movie. For about the first 10 minutes I thought I was watching some a comedy sci-fi flick, or a sitcom. It got much better after they dropped the comedy BS. Sure, a little is alright, but geez... that R2 fight with the droids was like something out of Home Alone or some other child movie. This obviously isn't a child's movie with a PG13 rating, due to all the violence, so why bother catering to that age group?
I know that anger/disgust increases the frequency of typos and bad grammar, but I still would believe the first review more than the second, simply because... the first reviewer didn't have as many mistakes.
Don't get me wrong, I'm no English teacher or anything, but when people leave out commas or abuse apostrophies, it's as annoying to me as people who say "um" and "like" every three words in public speeches.
About the movie: See it. In theaters. I agree with the first reviewer, except that I hated the ending.
SPOILERS:
Annakin is a childish asshole for the entire first three movies, and it only gets worse in the third one. In Ep II, he says "I promise you, someday I will become the most powerful Jedi, and I will even find a way to keep people from dying." In Ep III, his whole reason for turning to the dark side is to keep Padme from dying.
Alright, but a more... erm... mature person would have killed/arrested Palpatine immediately after discovering that he was a Sith Lord, because if Palpatine can lie enough to keep his Sith-ness a secret, then he can certainly lie about being able to save Padme. Not to mention that killing all the Jedi would not make Padme happy to be alive, but we can't really expect rationality from Annakin.
But, my real problem is that based on the ending, right after Vader screams "NOOOOO", he should have immediately attacked Sidious, and barring some very skillful fast talking on the Emperor's part, Vader should have killed Sidious and then himself. I mean, when you have nothing left to live for, you should kill yourself, not everyone else in a mad lust for power.
The only way I can see this working out differently is if Sidious convinces Vader that there's still a possibility of bringing Padme back, but that he needs to become more powerful. But that doesn't fit with Eps 4-6. "Join me, and we will rule the galaxy as father and son!" What? No, what he should say is "Join me, and we will be powerful enough to revive your mother, not to mention your aunt and uncle, and Biggs..."
Knowing Luke, it might have worked. Luke seems to have inherited his father's whininess.
No, wait, it wouldn't work. Luke did not inherit his father's stupidity.
Don't thank God, thank a doctor!
He wasn't. Chewie was the co-pilot of a derelict smuggler who dumps his cargo at the first sign of trouble.
Jabba refers to him as "the mighty chewbacca". Chewie had a rep. He wasn't just Solo's sidekick.
"If they have both, tell them we use Linux. And if they have that, tell them the computers are down." -Dave Chapelle
The books which go beyond the trilogy, however, disagree. Supposedly the Emperor lives in cloned bodies, and the dark side consumes the bodies so he has to get a new one ever so often. At the point where he's thrown out, and he falls through that hole, ostensibly someone catches him and transfers his spirit into yet another clone. The Emperor never dies according to some comic books.
Those "some comic books" are all Official Sanctioned Star Wars products. Lucasarts (or someone else similarly close to Lucas) dictates or approves every major plot arc, including the Emperor's brief-but-futile ressurection and Luke's temporary fall to the dark side.
And, y'know, Anakin did invite Luke to join him and overthrow the Emperor. In Cloud City, right after he cut off his arm.
Mace turns and said "I don't remember askin' you a G@#DAMN thing" - - [Whacks Palpatine]
Or
[Mace whacks Palpatine] , [Big dark force energy explosion]
"Oh, I'm sorry. Did that break your concentration? I didn't mean to do that. Please, continue. I believe you were saying something about 'not supposed to kill.'"
There's no place like 127.0.0.1
Yeah but that was before Luke found out that Darth Vader was actually a cool guy beneath all the scary exterior. Although, when your Dad chops off your hand in a sword fight, I guess it affects your judgement a little.
Start of Episode One: the Force is used by dozens of good jedi. Good far outweighs evil.
End Episode Three: The Evil Sith kill the excess of good Jedi until there's just as many bad force-users as good.
Thus Anakin kills off the glut of goodies and the Force is now "balanced" between Dark and Light.
Moral of the Story: Try to understand your goal before you seek to accomplish it.
GMail has a "remember me for a week" option. What are you complaining about?
Jabba refers to him as "the mighty chewbacca".
Because by then he had helped destroy a Death Star and fight alongside the rebellion through all the events in "Empire."
Also, Jabba once employed Solo a lot. It goes without saying that he would know of Chewie. No need for him to have a tacked-on backstory of saving Wookie World with Master Yoda.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Of all the dribble and drab comments in this message history, yours appears to be the most erudite and excellent analysis of the whole series. Thanks for putting it so well, you've enhanced my enjoyment of the movies!
That girl that was shown a few times kinda looks like Jabba's big pet that was about to eat Luke skywalker....lol.
I am quite aware of that. It only explains why he stopped Mace from killing Palpatine. It does not explain why Anakin completely ignored Palpatines deception when Palpatine then turned around and killed Mace.
It was completely unbelievable.
Code or be coded.
Actually, the last several scenes of the movie should have never existed. They showed us nothing new at all, just rushed us through a quick tour of scenes to tell us what we already knew. Yes his injuries lead to the suit, yes Luke and Leia get sent to Tattoine and the Organas, yes the empire made a death star after this.
If they movie had simply ended about twenty minutes earlier it would have still been fairly bad, but much improved.
I think Palpatine/Sidious is the most interesting character in the prequels. And Padme is key but inconsistent. Sidious manipulates but Padme seems to be the only one who defies his predictions and foils his plans. Anakin is just caught between the two and the Jedi were too blind to notice the whole thing going on and play into Sidious' plans all the way.
I think Padme ultimately wins as it is her offspring that convinces Vader to kill Sidious...Sidious can't seem to figure Luke out, either.
If they had managed to keep Padme consistently believable we probably would've cared when she died...if she didn't die in such a lamely declared fashion.
Why not compare them to the ships used by the Republic in 1-3? I mean, Star Destroyers are clear successors to those ships. I think the Republic vessels in 1-3 looked good, while still looking like older design when compared to the Imperial Star Destroyers.
Lesbian Nazi Hookers Abducted by UFOs and Forced Into Weight Loss Programs - -all next week on Town Talk.
There is a _reason_ why there are so many Star Wars references in the Evil Overlords list
http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html
There are 2 sides to copyright.
1. There is the idea of promotion of art by allowing those who create such art a temoprary monopoly on distribution of their creation.
2. There is the idea that the public domain can be enriched after expiration of the temporary monopoly.
The combination of those two results in both the creators of art and society benefitting from copyright.
Since especially the MPAA's members have frustrated 2. completely, it is first of all them not supporting copyright (as it was intended) and if they complain about piracy, that pretty much is a case of pot calling kettle black.
In direct answer to your post, you might just consider that supporting copyright as it is now is indeed not very insigtfull, rather, it is short sighted because current copyright just ignores half of what copyright is about (and if you don't believe this, I suggest you go read the relevant parts of the US constitution and the letters of the founding fathers regarding copyright)
As I have mentioned in the previous discussion, I went to go see it in the cinema in part to reward those who made the movie, and in part to get the full experience. That said, I will also watch a pirated copy in the comming days, this for reasons somewhat specific for my situation (altho it is shared by a few milion others on this planet). Check my post in the previous discussion to see why.
I'm personally hoping for the Rogue and Wraith Squadron books to be filmed (fanfilms anyone?!) because they're just so damned good. I love Wraith Squadron most because they're not so much bound to the rules of the Rebels. And Wegdean'tilles just rocks.
Concerning Revenge of the Sith, I loved the movie, even though we were basically lying in front of the screen at the second row, but we did see it on opening night, in costume.
You know you're really too much of a fan when your costumes are applauded...
...he goes from intervening to prevent the death of his "only hope" and instead bring him to trial (with Sidious ceasing the opportunity), and then, in a matter of seconds becomes Darth Sidious' loyal apprentice and goes on to slay children, without hesitation.
I want to see him in mental anguish over killing him, not only a lifeless "What have I done?". I want to see him coerced into accepting that all Jedi are his enemy, even the younglings. I want to see him rejoin Sidious afterwards, hollow and shaken. And then have Sidious rekindle his anger. His injury to become Darth Vader should be his final fall into evil, how the Jedi have taken everything from him. His body, his love, his child, all that he had and ever cared about.
Right now, it is as if you flick a switch and he's nothing but pure evil. Once you get to the part where he's lost everything, he's got nothing left of his character to give because he's already sunk as low as he can go. And so all he can do is a stupid scream.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Well, this is what Lucas claims now, I don't know that I believe him :) Anyway, the great-grandparent claimed that it was always called ANH even in the original crawl of the original 1977 release and this just isn't so. That's enough to lose them their geek privileges if you ask me!
The real Captain Avatar is a fictional character, so I suppose he doesn't mind if I impersonate him.
And even though Episode 1 sucked and Episode 2 was only marginally better than 1, I really liked the general story arc. I have to thank Lucas for not making Darth Vader the cliched product of abusive parents and a childhood spent torturing animals. The fall is much more powerful when you can see Vader as a pure little kid running through a field.
I see the important central idea around Star Wars in how Darth Sidious's attempt to turn Luke, ends up saving Anakin's sole.
As I recall both of Anakin's soles got cut off along with the rest of his legs and vaporized in the lava.
You've got it down precisely.
Anakin/Vader was the "Chosen One". He returned balance to the Force. First, by eliminating all the Jedi but Obi-wan and Yoda, and all the Sith but Sidious and himself; and then, by killing both Obi-wan and Sidious, while Yoda died of old age and Vader died of his wounds. Thus, both the Jedi and the Sith were destroyed and the conflict between Light and Dark sides settled.
Where Luke is important is not that he is the "Chosen One" who would restore balance to the Force - he IS the restored balance in the Force! Trained by Obi-wan and Yoda, tempted by Sidious and Vader, and then freed of all of them, left with the strength and passion of the Dark Side that almost drove him to become a Sith at the end of RotJ, but with the control and resolve of a Jedi, and the ability to temper those emotions when necessary.
It actually reminds me a lot of the Vulcans and Klingons of Star Trek. The Vulcans are ostensibly the "good guys" on the side of reason and order; the Klingons are ostensibly the "bad guys" on the side of emotion and chaos. But throughout the series it's pretty obvious that the Vulcan's suppression of emotion is not such a great thing, and anyone can easily see how the Klingons' lack of reason is less than ideal. In that series humans are supposed to represent the "happy medium", people who embrace both emotions and reason and can control the both as needed.
And I agree with you wholeheartedly: the themes of this movie, first of Anakin and his unsuccessful struggle to find a path between the extremes of the Jedi and the Sith, and then of Luke and his successul mediation of those extremes, are extremely powerful and touching themes that are common to any person's existence. We are all surrounded by polar choices, few as extreme as these fictional examples, but nevertheless every person must at times mediate disagreements between their reason and their emotions, their personal faith and their agreement with society, the freedom of their actions and the consent of others...
As the old addage says, "all things in moderation", and as we all must struggle to find a suitable moderation between extremes, a well-implemented and convincing portrayal of these themes on an epics scale can be touching to anyone. Unfortunately, it seems that Lucas has failed to implement his story in such a convincing way. I am happy to hold in my mind an abridged version of the tale, and allow my own imagination to fill in the details in more acceptable ways. Perhaps someday this story will be told again, and better; either the Star Wars saga itself or another saga which tells the same essential tale. I certainly hope so.
-Forrest Cameranesi, Geek of all Trades
"I am Sam. Sam I am. I do not like trolls, flames, or spam."
On the risk of sounding stupid (oops, to late anyway):
-Spoiler-
At the start of ep. 3 Anakin and Obi Wan's ships were attacked by some homing missiles and a buch of little robot kritters.
Why did neither of them use the force to just 'wave' them away? Especially the robots gave Obi Wan some trouble, but they were right next to him and seemed pretty lightweight, so why not simply push them off the ship?
Does the force not work in a vakuum? Unlike sound, which apparently does?
It's wartime. Everything is dirty and cheaply made. Look at Liberty Ships from WW2 or the state of British trains, which didn't get cleaned for 6 years (and all the nice streamlined engines had their shiny streamlining removed for easier maintenance).
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
I have watched Ep 1 and 2 several times from DVD after seeing them in a theater and enjoyed them very much.
Episode 1 is simple, with good and evil very clearly defined, which is only appropriate - after all, the main character is a ten-year old kid. Episode 2 has a darker shade, with Anakin growing up and confronting the nasty facts of life - your loved ones die, no matter how mighty a hero you may be. And Episode 3 is dark, with Palpatine and Jedis putting Anakin into an impossible situation, and him losing control entirely.
The whole prequel trilogy works very nicely, with the viewpoint and representation fitting the general mood of each movie perfectly. It isn't the original trilogy, because it doesn't tell the same story. But it tells its own story very well.
As for the hammer... You really need to grow up a little and learn to tolerate differing opinions. Otherwise, you'll end up getting strangled to death with your own entrails, you sick hatefull heretical pervert.
Forget magic. Any technology distinguishable from divine power is insufficiently advanced.
Does anyone else think Lucas has a whole Freudian issue with hands and whatnot? I had to stop the urge to cross my legs every time I saw someone getting his hand hacked off in this movie.
Jeezes, George, just go see a counselor or something, don't take out your psychological issues on the audience at the big screen where everyone can watch...
Seriously, does anyone know if there's any symbolism to losing a hand?
**Warning, Spoilers**
A count of who loses hands to who in the Star Wars movies:
New Hope: No one.
Empire: Luke, to Vader
Return of the Jedi: Vader, to luke
Phantom Menace: No one.
Clones: Anakin, to Dooku
Sith: Dooku, to Anakin. Windu, to Anakin. Grievious, to Obi-wan. Anakin, to Obi-wan.
In conclusion, if we ever see a third trilogy, in 7 no one will lose a hand, in 8 Leia will lose a hand, and in 9 half the friggin galaxy will lose a hand.
Carol vs. Ghost
If parts 1,2 & 3 had been made first (before 4,5 & 6), do you think parts 4,5 & 6 would ever have been made?
Do you think the 'series' would have reached past Part 1? Who the hell would have wanted to see Part 2 if 4,5,6 did not exist?
Don't get me wrong, I loved the original set of movies but IMHO the prequels take the gloss off a classic series.
I have only two words for you... keep the CG. Keep the overall story. Keep the characters (ok kill Jar jar). The two words are: Quentin Tarantino Any thoughts?
two words only... Quentin Tarantino any thoughts?
Perhaps the "prophecy of the one who will bring balance to the Force" was misinterpreted after all: Perhaps the prophecy was really fulfilled not by Anakin destroying the Sith order, but by Luke humanizing the Jedi ethic.
Of course, before Anakin, the good of the Jedi outweighed the bad of the Sith; after Anakin, there was more evil and less good. So, in a way, Anakin *did* bring balance to the force.
I saw it yesterday, in a cinema (`theater' for Americans I guess).
I can't really comment on the effects, but the sheer visual quality of it was horrible. Every time there were near-horizontal or near-vertical lines on the screen there were fairly obvious `moiré' patterns (not really the right word I think, what I mean is that you could see the steps in the lines where they crossed scan-lines). There were significant artifacts for 45-degree lines too - various helmets etc looked really crap.
Perhaps this is common, though I don't recall it in other effects-laden films (matrix &c), where I've sat equally close to the front (third row).
Perhaps also it's just the `print' I saw, I don't know. It was really hard to watch after a bit though.
GMail has a "remember me for a week" option. What are you complaining about?
That should be evident if you read my sig.
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
Jabba refers to him as "the mighty chewbacca".
...
[random theoretical explanations]
Does sarcasm exist in the Star Wars universe? Couldn't Jabba have said "mighty" sarcastically? (Not necessarily to imply weakness or cowardice in the Wookie, but to otherwise mock his prisoner)
Sheesh. Every damned throw-away line has to be so damned important. (My favorite to see explained is Han's line about making the Kessel run in less than twelve parsecs)
This is my sig. It's prescription, I swear. I need it for reading things... on the other side of things
If I had mod points today, you'd be getting them.
The conversion was part of the same rage, he transferred that rage to keeping Padme from dying like his mother did. Did we mention the darkside? Every bad thing he does adds up like arsenic because he is Jedi.
I think I may buy the full 6 (or 12 or whatever) DVD set when it comes out, rip all the movies including the original trilogy from the Video Disk rip and put them together in my own edit. I'll leave out most of the annoying kid Annie (Yippee!), the whiney irritating teenager Annie (I don't like sand), and the Ewoks, leaving only a tragic tale of the rise, fall and redemption of Anakin Skywalker. Yes, I'll be a criminal breaking the DMCA and all, but I'll just have to live with myself.
But why is the rum gone?
A new take on this, based on Yoda's warning to Palpatine about the possibly misplaced trust in his new apprentice, is that this line refers to Anakin.
In my opinion, the Jedi masters really didn't understand the meaning of balance. I think they meant it would finally stop the fighting. Or, they thought that light (which is obviously right in their minds) would prevail 100%. Of course, they're entirely wrong. Turns out that perfect balance is attained (as we've said). Also, it can be argue that Luke has perfect balance in him - because he sees the darkside, practices a bit of the dark side, but does not become consumed by it. Nor is he consumed by the light.
No, they invented that tech, and after long hard lessons discarded it. As Dr. Non Canonical explains: "[balcony rails] are the first step in a civilizational decline that begins with a laudable concern for safety and ends up with 24 hour nannying of adults, and allergy safety labels reading 'contains nuts' on packets of nuts. The result of cosseting the shallow end of the gene pool is that it breeds and expands, quickly overwhelming literacy, sanity, and self responsibility. Entire planets which travelled this route have been lost, upon the demise from loneliness of the last person who knew how to be a nanny rather than require one. While compassion would suggest we protect those stupid enough to step off their own balcony (or off footbridges, etc), hard practical experience says let them fall." (emphasis in original)
"Takes the edge off watching the destruction of the Jedi, it does." ... I've heard it's quite good ... can I try some?"
..."
"Hmm
"Do or do not, there is no try. Free, the first one is. Smoke some, you must."
"Fear leads to anger. Anger leads to hate. Hate leads to suffering. Suffering leads to ganja. Ganja leads to bad, bad dreams, man
"That boy is our last hope"
"No. There is another."
"Oh yeah, Leia, almost forgot. How is she, by the way?"
"Oh, Leia, right. Talking about pot, I thought. Spare tin in cave, I have. Growing faint, you are. Right back, I'll come. Ta ta."
I'm actually in the process of carrying out your experiment. I've seen I-III in order. I never saw Episode IV until Saturday, and have yet to see V and VI.
Episode III was the first movie that actually made me interested in what would happen next in the Star Wars universe.
Watching IV was very entertaining, as technology must've been much harder to come by in the years that followed III.
It probably would have been cooler to leave out the fact that Luke and Leia were brother and sister with Vader as father in III. Not that I don't already know these things, but it would be a lot more interesting to me to discover how they find out.
Then again, I spent Episode IV asking the person I watched it with all kinds of dumb questions (WTF is C3PO's purpose? Is that Obi-Wan?) and yelling at Luke and Leia to start making out.
Peter Jackson says essentially the same thing about the CGI Gollum/Smeagol in the LotR:TT bonus feature.
I have mod points today. I'd swap them for a tack hammer.
That amused me:
"Anakin - you've lost! I have the high ground!"
I was expecting:
"What are you - a 14th century archer?"
"Vader was seduced by the dark side. He betrayed and murdered your father." -- Hoo boy, that's taking some liberties with symantics!
More accurately, it's a total lie.
I mean, what was he going to say?
"Your father turned evil, murdered little children, and tried to choke your mom to death, so I chopped him into pieces and left what remained of him burning to death by a sea of moltel lava. Turns out he survived, but he needs a robot body and an iron lung now. I really should have stayed and finished the job, but I was too busy running off and crying."
Not a good opening if you want to talk the kid into helping you rescue a princess, is it?
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
> If anything, they guarantee that children down the road who watch these films in 1-6 order will not enjoy 4-6 half as much as we did.
Actually, those kids who don't know the movie is made in 456-123 order and watch through 1-6 order will think, oh this movie is getting just better and better, weldone Lucas, you never let us down! You learn the past mistake real good and make greater every release.
We know what actually happened though.
Am I alone in thinking that the effects in 4-6 were better than all of the prequels except 3?
I mean, 1 had better lightsaber fights, but otherwise really looked kind of cartoony. 2 looked terrible from beginning to end.
When I watch the escape from Hoth in "Empire"... THAT was breathtaking.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Honesty. Full disclosure. The only way to talk to someone you care about.
You can always leave out some of the gruesome details, but you are never really served by telling a total lie.
"How did my fater die?"
"He's not dead. You were told he was dead because you were too young to understand until now. I'm sorry to have to be the one to tell you, but you are old enough now to know the truth"
"WHAT!! Where is he??!!"
"In the service of the empire. He doesn't know you are alive."
"What kind of crap is this!? First my uncle tells me he was a navigator on a spice freigher and he's dead, now you're telling me he was a Jedi, but he's still alive?!"
"It's a very long story. I'll tell you everything you want to know, but right now is not the best time."
There is much cruelty in the universe, John.
Yeah, we seem to have the tour map.
That would be assuming that George Lucas is more focused on creating an authentic fictional fighting style than he is on creating a powerful and mythic storyline. Since he's a moviemaker, I would doubt that this is the case. He cuts off a lot of arms partly because of the symbolic significance and partly because it's the only type of consequence of a light-saber duel that he's willing to portray in his movies, other than a major character dying. That's why they're always fighting droids with those things, so he doesn't have to worry about showing a bunch of hacked up corposes.
My favorite to see explained is Han's line about making the Kessel run in less than twelve parsecs
That's easy to explain.
Lucas didn't actually know what a parsec is at the time the movie was made, and neither did anybody on the set.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
There is nobody, anywhere, that can honestly say they BELIEVED the motivation for the turn to the dark side.
;-)
I did.
--
--- Vote Libertarian [lp.org]
Yes... well... that kind of says it all, eh?
-chris
San Francisco values: compassion, tolerance, respect, intelligence
Does sarcasm exist in the Star Wars universe?
Not really. I can't really think of any sarcasm in any of the 6 movie's dialogue. Except maybe by the emperor at the end of Jedi. It defineltly wasn't jabba's style.
I don't have any problem with Chewbacca being a badass warrior showing up in episode three.
My only problem with it was him being an old dear friend of yoda. That was a little too convenient.
"If they have both, tell them we use Linux. And if they have that, tell them the computers are down." -Dave Chapelle
Plus he has class 4 packet sniffers and 128-bit encryption breakers that can detect passwords and change them on the fly.
All of this and... He can hop out of cockpits, emulate a taser, record and project film, throw flame, yet he cannot interpret instructions in english from human beings without translators who are speaking the same language. I need a droid!
Warning: I am the silence machine.
I still don't get how Grand Moff Tarkin came to power. In Ep. III, we only see clones and Vader taking orders from Palps. Vader is 2nd in charge, yet after 20 years (In Ep. IV), this old man Tarkin is ordering Vader around, telling him to stop force-choking people and such. If I were Lord Vader, I'd force-choke 'em all. The Sphere O'Fear was ridiculously flawed. Somebody gotta hang for that!
Warning: I am the silence machine.
Maybe I have a better sense of wonder and imagination than some of you, but this movie wasn't that bad. It's the only movie I've ever seen that was fictional yet you left feeling drained like a real story like Glory, or Shindler's List, or Saving Private Ryan.
Yes, the dialog wasn't the greatest, but even the punk improved somewhat. Portman sure improved a ton.
The whole tone of the movie changed at that one point with the kids. Yes, his turning seemed fast, but they tried to get around that by showing her belly growing, which showed weeks and months were really going by as all this was happening.
The action was first rate, and the CGI wasn't too bad at all. Compare vs. Last Starfighter if you don't think it's come a long way.
The initial space battle was far and away the most complex and visually stunning I've seen. It's all the other SW films + Wolf 359 + Dominion wars + everything else you've seen rolled into one. It did not look particularly fake to me.
If anything, these pipework and bulkhead-clogged ships are way overdone. Anyone whose flown into an airport during the day can tell you how fake those toy cars look down there, all shiny and perfect and slow-moving. The producers have the tough job of making it [b]not seem fake when fake is exactly what ships on that scale would look like in real life.[/b] And "not fake" to our stupid, 6-foot high, 1/20 mile worldview is exactly what we got. Good job on their part.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
I thought this was stupid and just enters another plot hole in the original trilogy. No mention of Qui-Gon Jinn in any of those (IV-VI) is senseless. You may have a point about what Obi says to Vader before he slaughters him and may explain the empty robe and no corpse. However, I understood that Obi was on Tatooine to watch over Luke and eventually train him in the ways of the force. If Qui-Gon is immortal, why would Obi have to be on Tats to be given advice. Obi wasn't on Tats in Episode II and Qui was speaking to him. This is just another stupid plot hole that Lucas put his foot in!!
Warning: I am the silence machine.
You are missing the obvious: Zero cannot be expressed as a period. With regard to AD / BC calendars, zero is a non-existant transitional point, there is no "zero phase." At the end of the year 1 BC, the transition is directly to 1 AD with no time being spent in a "zero" year and is in fact an instantaneous change. No time exists between 1 BC and 1 AD. So, the year -59767 AD is actually equal to 59767 BC.
"I'm just here to regulate funkiness."
While they may have intended to show that, they fell far short.
I might have found it believable if Anakin didn't hesitate to kill Count Dooku. I might have found it more believable if there had been some indication that Palpatine had already been giving Anakin Sith training (obviously, "innocent" things). I would even have found it believable if Palpatine had used Anakin's involvement in Mace's death as leverage to bring him closer to the edge (basically, keep blackmailing him into doing more and more evil things)
As the movie stands, it was completely unbelievable.
Code or be coded.
[Why is Obi-Wan depicted in the original trilogy to be one of the best Jedi?]
He wasn't. He just happened to be one of the only ones left.
That makes him great, does it not? I think it's logical to assume that the stronger you are, the more likely you are to survive (survival of the fittest). And plus, his teachings seemed pretty strong to me and many fans as were Yoda's. (Besides the fact that the novelization said that Darth vader said that Obi-Wan is the greatest of the Jedi, which is why he must confront him; this is irrelevant to the movies but still true to the SW Universe.)
[Why is Chewie a famous wookie?]
He wasn't. Chewie was the co-pilot of a derelict smuggler who dumps his cargo at the first sign of trouble.
Technically he is a famous wookie, but ignoring that, he's famous in the minds of lovers of the original trilogy. That is enough for a film franchise to put him in.
And all of this is besides the fact that you sound as if you prefer stories to be isolated, unrelated to anything or each other, no interesting ties or connections. Sounds dull. Star Wars is exciting.
Why is it that we see the death star well on its way to being built and yet it seems to take approximately 18 more years before it becomes operational? and once destroyed, the empire builds another one to be destroyed in episode 6 in the space of a few years? Why did it take that long for the first one or why did it take so little time for the second one?
I saw him burning pretty much for what seemed like a good 20-30 seconds off and on, including his face melting away. It was more gruesome than I was expecting. I also expected him to fall in lava, or have a big splash hit him. He just happened to catch on fire (clothing) from lava, and burned "normally".
It's sad Kenobi didn't finish the job, just assuming he had died.
It's also surprising Kenobi did as well as he did -- he truly was a premeir Jedi, even if surpassed by Anakin (but not by too much.) He was being driven back through the entire battle. Even at the end, it was that "high ground" thing that did in Anakin -- because of his arrogance -- and not because Kenobi was superior. But he took advandage at the right time of the Sith's prototypical "tragic flaw" -- belief in power.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
So after seeing ROTS this weekend, I was wondering.. how does Darth Vader know that Luke is his son?
As far as he knew Padame died because of him and noone knew she had twins until she gave birth...
Was this explained in the 4-6 episodes? I don't remember that being explained......
"Dad, I had your boot mended. No more holes in your socks!".
And all of this is besides the fact that you sound as if you prefer stories to be isolated
No, I prefer the stories to make some kind of sense, and the connections to be at least marginally credible.
Of the thousands of Wookies fighing with Yoda, the one who carries him to safety just happens to be the only Wookie that Luke Skywalker ever meets.
Of all the call-signs that could have been given to Luke during the Death Star raid, it just happens to be the same exact same designation ("Red Five") which Obi-Wan was assigned during the Clone Wars.
And why the fuck does a slave child on a desert planet in the middle of nowhere build a protocol droid? His own hot-rod pod racer, I can see, but a protocl droid? How could he even afford the parts, anyway? His mom (who he allegedly loves enough to slaughter Bantha families over) is living in an adobe hut fer cryin' out loud! Buy some windows and an air conditioner first!
And wasn't Boba Fett about a million times cooler when he was just a jaded Mandelorian warrior-turned-freelancer curising around in Slave One as a cunning bounty hunter? Now he's the child of Jango Fett, who was used as the genetic source for all those cloned stormtroopers... none of whom could hit any wall of a barn while standing inside of it. Just a poser, flying around in his daddy's ship and wearing his daddy's armor. Pathetic.
Speaking of which, I noticed that "Baby Fett" was completely forgotten about in Ep. III, along with Jar-Jar Binks (apart from a brief funeral procession shot.) Yet another reason why this one was, by far, the best of the prequels.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Hell no. It was very drawn out and exruciating:
Palpatine: "Join me"
Anakin: "No!"
Palpatine: "Join me, go and kill some jedi ass"
Anakin: "Oh well, hadn't anything planned anyway..."
I was disappointed by Episodes I & II, but was waiting for Episode III to make my final judgement. Now that I've seen it, here are my thoughts, in no particular order.
All that said, I enjoyed the movie, and when all 6 movies come out as a DVD set, I'll be buying them...
but not before....The best thing about Episode III for me was discovering just how incredibly powerful Leia is in the force.
I mean, she learned that her mother was kind but sad, in the five seconds she lived after Leia's birth! Amazing!
Grrrr... Wish I could edit my posts. Mentally correct this to read...
So, I won't fault the empire *their* little security pecadillos.
Happy Zftjpyd to you too!
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Actually he was too effective.
After a few months, all the managers posted his picture so everyone knew who he was, basically destroying his ability to do his job. So he no longer does that. Last I heard he was running xxx sites.
A day without jvnmbnr is not a day fully lived.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
"Of the thousands of Wookies fighing with Yoda, the one who carries him to safety..."
Was I the only one who, while watching Yoda climb into his escape capsule, heard Yoda say: "I'll get you next time Austin Powers!"
"... along with Jar-Jar Binks..."
So they're willing to almost show Ani slaughtering dozens of presumably defensless children at the temple but they can't give us ONE shot of Jar-Jar dying some slow horrible death. Something like having his legs cut off and then burning up near a lava flow? That would have been cool, but I guess you're right it would have been too violent.
Luke gets a big head thinking he's the son of "The One" and turns to the dark side. I won't defend TNS, but I will defend Star Wars.
Well you've started to just pick away at random things that you don't like about Star Wars, almost as if you think that you know more about Star Wars than George Lucas does. You're probably right. But George Lucas still managed to imagine, create, and realize a fairy tale world. Its greatness has only led you to pay attention to Star Wars; you could poke a great deal more fun at anything else.
Being a geek that loves a story that takes place in a completely new 'world' (ex: Babylon 5, Dune, Star Trek, X-Files, etc.), I'm all about the details, how everything ties together. I loved how it came to be told that Luke and Leia were siblings and that Vader was Luke's father.
So it bugs me a little bit that there were so many inconsistencies between the 1st trilogy (I, II, III) and the 2nd (IV, V, VI). But only a little. I have most of a great story, for which I can make up fixes in my head. I also got to see a stunning visual counterpart to a story (that has more details in the book version, BTW). Plus, we all got some more details that were never hinted at in the original trilogy or the follow-on books/comics.
So think back on the movie and enjoy the main story arcs and try to ignore the little things. Hell, I plan to go see EP III again after finishing the book version!
My blood pressure is fine. How's yours? ;-)
Whoever Has the Most Toys Wins!
On lightsaber forms:
Qui-Gon and Maul using form 3 is WRONG. Maul is a sith, he does not use conventional forms, but rather allows his passion and bloodlust to drive himself. Qui-Gon uses form 4, which emphasizes twirls, spins, fluorishes and acrobatic maneuvers, force-assisted, but is incredibly difficult to master for this reason...hence the only real form 4 master is Yoda (as is demonstrated at the end of episode 2)
Obi-wan is using form 4 in episode 1, but isnt very good at it. By episode 2, he has switched to form 3, which emphasises a strong centre line, less acrobatic movement, and lightning speed hence the 'spazzy' appearance of the fights. Anakin is using form 4 here, but gets his hand sliced off. In episode 3 he is back to form 3 like Obi-wan. I was happy to see this, it shows he is paying more attention to Obi-wan's instruction.
Dooku uses form 2, which is the 'gentleman's style'. Probably a plot contrivance to accomodate Christopher Lee's reduced mobility, but it has poor defence which shows when he falters under Yoda's amazing form 4 assault. Interesting that he isn't using traditional sith-style, but then again, Anakin doesnt switch instantly to sith-style after 'turning', he is still using form 3 when fighting Obiwan at the end.
There are other forms, too. Mace Windu is the only jedi besides his one remaining student billaba who uses form 7, which is basically a jedi version of the sith style, relying on borderline rage which is a contradiction of sorts...everyone save mace and billaba who tried to use this style ended up as a dark jedi, but it is possibly the strongest style. I was happy to see Mace defeat Sidious in a saber battle- maintained consistency. Also explains Mace's heightened emotional state and desire to kill sidious: a double standard that became his own undoing.
There is also form 5 which basically translates to 'the style of Jedi who get killed like idiots', apparently a plot contrivance to explain Jedi getting slaughtered at the end of episode 2. It's a classical style that is practiced for personal improvement and not combat- diplomacy is encouraged in violent situations. ALL form 5 users are dead by the end of episode 2
Oh, and b4 I forget: form 3 users are also supposed to be good at deflecting laser blasts.
All this talk about forms should help you enjoy the saber battles in all 3 prequels better. Even in the sequels it can be applied: Vader and Obiwan both use form 3, and Luke uses form 4 because he was trained by Yoda, a form 4 master. In episode 4 we can see obi wan trying to teach Luke form 3, holding a centre line against a droid.
Consistency such as this makes me have respect for fight choreographers in the star wars universe. Such a pity that such information is left obscure, and never mentioned in the movie's narrative.
Shinsengumi de gozaru
A major problem with ROTS is that it doesnt pack as much of a punch if you do not watch the Clone Wars miniseries. Grievous has the cough because of his disastrous run-in with Mace Windu earlier. When fighting Obi-wan he is near death and nothing like at his true level. We also learn that he isn't all-droid. More like a cyborg.
Shinsengumi de gozaru
You know, I was going to do the spelling correction bit, but this -
ends up saving Anakin's sole
is priceless.
"Dad, I caught the fish you lost!"
I was thinking more along the lines of:
"Dad, I fixed that hole in your shoe!"
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
Your point about these little connections between the characters being pretty much random is correct... and proves my point perfectly, so thanks.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
That was supposed to be depicted as the moment when Anakin realized he reached a "point of no return."
Once he chose to attack Mace and save Palpatine, he committed to selecting which side he was on. When he saw Palpatine turn around and kill Mace, he suddenly realized that he chose the wrong side, but also believed that there was no going back. He betrayed and helped murder a Jedi for the sake of a Sith lord, motivated by his own personal greed for power... He knew he could never become a Jedi master after that. The die was cast, and he was to join Palpatine as a new Sith apprentice.
His "what have I done" line was an expression of regret in having realized that he just threw his old life away in favor of the Dark Side, not shame over betraying Mace Windu.
In that context, his seemingly abrupt conversion is not quite so hard to swallow.
Information wants to be anthropomorphized.
Best I can say is that Jar-Jar doesn't speak.
Jar Jar bumps into a senator (if I remember correctly it was Orn Free Taa). The senator Says "Watch it". Jar Jar says "Excuse me".
Never argue with an idiot. They will just bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
They're getting two contractors to compete to see which constructor technology to buy when they make the real project, a Dyson sphere.
The contractor that whips up Death Star II really quickly is using Cocoa-based technology.
September 2011: Looking for Cocoa/iOS work in Boston area Cocoa Programmer Quincy, MA
It drives the Sidious to start killing Luke and it gets Vader to recognize and correct his mistake years later.
I didn't really see it that way. The way it seemed to me, Vader fell with a thousand little tiny stumbles, and each step along the way of his descent, he looked at what he'd done and though, "Fuck... there's no turning back now." And lo and behold, his buddy Palpatine would get him to do something just a little bit worse next, so he felt even more helpless to escape. Never pushed him hard enough to buck... just enough to mire him down a little worse, and depress him enough that he could be made to do something a little nastier next time.
He knew his mistake the whole time, even as he was making it. He just didn't see a way out. And later, hell... he didn't even want a way out.
With the death of his wife and supposed death of his unborn child... the things he cared for enough to be driven to the dark side to begin with... he simply didn't have anything to motivate him toward redemption. What did he have to live for, or to give a damn about? Everything he valued had been stripped away from him, including the things he valued above all else. Hell, I'd fuck the galaxy up in that situation if I had the ability, too.
Enter Episode VI. He's known for a while that his kid(s) are still alive. Now one of them's put in a situation that's exactly analogous to his own from years before. Vader may have been a bad actor in his youth, but he's no idiot. He can't fail to recognize the situation. He has to have realized over the years just how much his master has lied to him, and now he's in Dooku's old role... on the outs so Darth Jerk can get a new and better apprentice.
Sonny boy makes the right decision that daddy couldn't. This is the fabled straw for that poor soon-to-be-paraplegic camel. Vader struggles with this for a while. Between the fact that he does in fact now have someone to give a damn about again and the fact that he recognizes himself in his son's corrected version of his own drama from years ago, he's able to break himself loose from that mire and Do the Right Thing (TM).
He was built for his final decision from the very beginning, after all. Anakin was always more than willing to sacrifice himself for those he was loyal to. Hell, it's how he became Vader...
And now I'm rambling. What was my original point again?
or the power of the sith is weighted when factored into balance within the force. eg there inherintly exists evil in the force, and sith channeling that evil destroys the balance.