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What Do You Do To Relieve Lower Back Pain?
Jester writes: "I'm sure there's a whole bunch of you people out there who have lower back pains from hours of hunching over a keyboard and coding away. How bad is it? Have you been to a chiropractor? Physical therapist? Taking obscene amounts of painkillers? Acupuncture? Or have you become accustomed to the pain?"
Make love? Don't be ridiculous, man. Remember where you are.
I've obvserved myself, friends, and coworkers over the years re/ bad posture from computer work and associated pain.
My completely informal conclusion is this:
If you've got bad posture and you're fat, you'll almost certainly have back pain.
If you've got bad posture and you're not fat, you may or may not have back pain.
So the first step here, pain sufferers, is look to at your girth and perhaps reduce that first.
If you got the money to spare (probably still at least $300) the Stokke Variable might be something for you. You can read more about the chair in this Stokke Variable Review.
:).
I had the oppurtunity to use one in a part time job which at times involved a lot of data-entry work and once I had gotten used to the chair I really came to like it. You sit in a semi-kneeling position that keeps your back straighter and also has the added bonus that you don't have to scrunch up your intestines (yes, it matters
Unfortunatly it's a bit pricey for me so I have to make do with excercise instead and I really need it since I'm prone to get bouts of sciatica (because lacking curvature in the lower spine). Of course the best excercise is the one you keep on doing but apart from that swimming is really good since the only stress you put on you body is the one you generate yourself and it really gives you an all round excercise.
I actually developed carpal tunnel after taking an obscenely long written exam. My boss was concerned that I would no longer be able to use my hands to operate the computer, so he bought a bunch of ergonomically-correct stuff for me -- keyboard wrist rests, mouse pad wrist rests, a non-microsoft mouse -- and I went out and bought a big, padded, lower-lumbar chair; the pain went away and hasn't returned. I can't recommend well-designed peripherals highly enough.
:-) Your general level of health has very little to do with pain you get from repetitive stress injuries, and spending most of your day hunched over a keyboard coding hits your lower back and wrists.
Exercise and weight lifting and enduring the pain will do nothing more than put you in a nursing home with sagging skin and brittle bones if you don't do something to address the problem; drugs'll put you in your grave
Variety of movement might be more important than grunt exercising per se. People get hurt from sitting/typing in general as a result of staying
in the same position too long. Both straight and slouched shapes are okay if you don't get stuck in them. You get fixed into a posture ('posture' means post) by a process called 'co-contraction' where the muscles in front of you (abdominals, diaphragm, intercostal muscles, neck flexors)
are continuously pulling against their antagonists, the long muscles along the back of the backbone. When you shorten in front and shorten in back your whole chest becomes rigid, your pelvis freezes in position, you can hardly breathe, and the indivdual bones of the back get squished against each other.
In contrast, if you view working at a terminal/desk as an activity, you realize that it involves shifting your weight as you reach for books, stick post-its, etc. Sometimes more forward, sometimes more back, in each position your back will take a slightly different shape, different muscles taking more of the load. No one place gets too fatigued. Of course if the skeleton is organized well, the bones carry most of the loads through compression, leaving the muscles relaxed.
Injury happens when the bones and muscles have fixed relationships, concentrating the strain on the same places continuously.
So swimming or yoga or digging in your garden or other exercise will help you by providing variety for your joints, muscles and bones, but doesn't directly address a person's habits in sitting position, in which use of the eyes, contraction of the back all come together according to (for some of you) decades of your sitting history.
Yoga, or Alexander method, or what i do, Feldenkrais method, can help you become aware of more of the variables in how your body can breathe and carry the weight through the bones so muscles can be more like actuators and less like duct tape. It involves training to use more of the pressure sensitive nerves (called proprioception) allowing the body to figure a better solution for distributing the forces that control the body's loading.
Loading changes with every reach, so a spine that is intelligent/adaptable, can bend in many ways, i think is more what we want.
Moshe Feldenkrais invented thousands of what he called 'Awareness Through Movement' that help the person discover the various degrees of freedom available to the skeleton and recruit this awareness in service of more efficient movement.
You could probably find someone teaching them at a local Y or community center. Many Feldenkrais teachers will also do individual sessions with people.
Some references:
Awareness Through Movement by Moshe Feldenkrais
The Thinking Body by Mabel Todd
Relaxercise by David Zemach-Bersin and Mark Reese
These and other useful books and tapes can be mail ordered from Feldenkrais Resources in Berkeley, California. (A web search should turn up their site.)
Or you can contact me: jroth (at) tiki.net
-dair
Bill - aka taniwha
--
Bill - aka taniwha
--
Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
I've actually never owned a car; my bike is my only set of wheels (I can drive, but my license expired 6 years ago). While I still get the occational lower back pain (and definity upper: bike riding doesn't exercise every muscle in your body), it's nowhere near as bad as when I was catching the bus to work (7km with 140m hills gets tiring, but I'm no longer in Wellington, so that's impoved*:) and I had almost constant back aches.
As others have said: exercise, exersise, sexercise (hey, can you think of a more fun way to exercise?:)
* I now ride 6km though snow :)
Bill - aka taniwha
--
Bill - aka taniwha
--
Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
One word of advise about these back chairs.
Don't wear shorts while you're using one.
I used my back chair for a year in college and when summer came around it had rubbed all the hair off my shins. Seriously.
Oh, I meant to say: I do this routine four times per week. I typically try to do it five times per week, skipping only Wednesday and Friday evenings, but typically something interferes and I miss another day.
I used to have chronic lower back pain, which came in cycles. I'd be fine for a month, then suddenly it would strike and get progressively worse until by the third day I couldn't stand up straight.
About the same time this was becoming unacceptable, I also decided I was getting too flabby, couldn't dance long enough without getting winded, etc. So I started going to the gym. After several months, I've gotten a pretty good routine: 40 minutes of Precor elliptical cross-trainer, followed by a "total-body" weight workout of 3 sets of 15 reps at low weight on 8 machines, followed by about 100 crunches.
Since the first month of this workout, I haven't had any back problems at all. And I feel better, look better, and can dance longer. Must be working...
I had serious back pain 8 or 9 years ago. I started doing some simple excercises that made it go away. Now I swim a mile (backstroke or crawl) twice a week, and I never had any trouble again.
Keep in mind that not all sports are equal...jogging is not particularly good for your back or knees, nor is cycling (my second sport). Your physician should be able to suggest good excercises if you want to do something other than swimming.
Stephan
PS. This worked for me, but it might cripple you for life. I recommend consulting your physician before engaging in physically demanding activites such as hacking in 12 hour stints.
Talk about a man with a chip on his shoulder. If there's a site more dependant on misdirection and strawman arguments, I haven't found it.
Take everything he says with large chunks of salt, and remember that he has a huge axe to grind.
Just as a teaser, he'll tell you all about the dangers of Vitamin C.
Don Negro
Don Negro
Perl 6 will give you the big knob. -- Larry Wall
A regular program of exercise, including strength training, should help tremendously, although not overnight and you do have to be careful not to overdo it initially (that can lead to more problems).
You can always start with simple walking, although if you're really badly out of shape it's best to see a doctor first before even doing very much of that. Gradually build up the distance and speed. For strength training, it's best to discuss it with a trainer to at least get started; overdoing that can really cause problems.
I personally like using the Concept II indoor rower. It gives a fantastic cardio workout in a relatively short amount of time (since it's using your whole body; most other cardiovascular exercise uses primarily the lower body exercises), and on the higher resistance settings it also gives some amount of strength training. But it does work the back quite hard, and it's not something to start with if you're out of shape. Good form is important; bad form can really hurt the back.
or don't hunch over! if you need glasses to see that far, get them, for crying out loud . . .
hawk
Good core strength means good posture and massively lowered risk of back pain, especially as you get older. Speak to your local physio or gym instructor. If you can't, try swimming, it's the best all round exercise and it will work the muscles you need.
Failing that, get a good chair. Loads of dotcoms going bust will mean plenty of Aeron's on the market :0)
My solution? Do some exercise, go to a gym or lift some weights at home. Now everyday, I spend 5 minutes every mornings doing some light exxercises and my pains are gone.
We are not only made of a brain, our body has some needs too. We can't just forget about it!
Black holes occur when God divides by zero.
I have the same problem, cronic back pains, used to be worst when I had a terrible chair, but even with a ergonomic one it didn't go away...
A few months ago I started doing Kung Fu and went to a conference with Dr Yang the guy who started the association, and It was very interesting (somewhat too incredible), the guy compares disfuncions in our body in the way they relate to bioelectric problems and e teaches the way chinese used to solve those problems. Well did a bit of reading on the subject (Body Electric is a good book on bioelectricity) and it seemed good enough to try.
Anyway bought a book by Dr. Yang to use chikung to heal back pain.
Well it works it tells you how to "listen" to your body so you can prevent injury and has the chi kung part (forms of simple exercices with relaxing) for healing...
I take Aikibudo lessons. It's a martial arts axed on defense, and the total disembodiment of the attacker. Some references can be found here.
The practical thing about this is that sometimes, you have to be the attacker so that someone else can defend during the lessons.
When you're being trown 5 feet away on the mats and land on your back, you tend to forget lower back pains.
It's the best back massage possible, I tell you! And then, you get all the adrenaline rush too.
Class is tonight... Woohoo!
Karma karma karma karma karmeleon: it comes and goes, it comes and goes.
There is no easy way around back problems: if you're not fit, there's no way you can relieve the back problems for more than a moment.
Getting medicated / massaged / whatever is only going to help for a moment, and probably you'll end up in a worse state than you began with unless you start to exercise after getting treated.
Start a sport that'll make your back stronger. Be it contact sports, climbing, Tai Chi, joga, anything, you have to move. That's what the body has been designed for. Sex isn't an alternative to sports - you have to **** for eight hours straight to burn the same amount of calories as half an hour of walking.
If you're a gadget freak, get a heart rate monitor as an incentive. Get a friend to do a sport with you. But start moving!
"Although it is not true that all conservatives are stupid, it is true that most stupid people are conservative."
First, I'd like to say thanks for making the post, jaxn. It's good that you're honest and open.
Your story hits home for me--I really believe that addiction can happen to anyone. I've had a lot of good friends that were addicts. And they are great people (as long as they don't use drugs).
While some people are much more susceptible, anyone can become an addict. It might not be drugs--it can be an addiction to shopping, to eating, to sex, to sports, to the Internet, to computers... It's worth taking a long hard look at yourself to see if you are addicted to anything. Honestly, I think that "positive addictions" are damaging too (just not as much or in the same way). Anything that drives you, that come in between being fully conscious and aware of your actions is ultimately going to cause pain and suffering.
Having an "addictive personality" isn't very far from having an "obsessive personality", and I'm sure a lot of people here can relate. "Obsessive" certainly describes me. I'm not obsessive about everything, or all the time, but it's an issue. It's a bigger problem when I get tired or stressed out. I've know that I'm fairly obsessive-compulsive, but it hasn't been until recently that I've really started to look at the impact of it in my life. And it's made a huge impact.
The best treatment for me is to exercise a bit and, most importantly, to meditate regularly. I've been into meditation since I was about 12 years old, but I didn't start to really practice until I was about 18. Even then, I didn't do it regularly or consistently enough. Recently I've gone through a divorce and that motivated me to take a good hard look at myself and my life so far. One of the results of that is I've begun a much more regular meditation practice.
(For those of you who are interested in such things, the best teacher I've found is Shinzen Young. He used to teach at a college, and does the best job I've heard translating esoteric eastern spiritual philosophy into something I can understand. He also one of the nicest people I've ever met in my life. He has some talks freely available on his web site, some cassettes you can buy, and, if you can get Kpfk (90.7 FM, in Los Angeles, CA), they usually play his talks on Thursday night after midnight (Kpfk also has a web cast). I highly recommend checking him out. If anyone would like more info re: Shinzen, please mail me.)
Meditation also has some great health and pain management aspects. Shinzen's "Break Through Pain" set is perhaps the best thing I've found to help deal with physical pain. And formal sitting can be good for your back.
"Eye halve a spelling chequer, It came with my pea sea, It plainly marques four my revue, Miss steaks eye kin knot sea"
The easiest and sfaest way of achieving (1) and, circumstances permitting, some of (2) is to make sure that at least 60% of what you eat is raw.
I can see how eating raw things can cause you to lose weight -- after all, cooking oil has a lot of calories, but exercise? Or are you suggesting we should run after and catch the animals we eat as well?
Climb Trees.
I'm not a doctor, so take this for what it's worth.
Masking the pain is a bad long term solution. You're doing something bad to your body, and it's letting you know about it. Pay attention.
You didn't mention it, but I suspect that you're overweight. I'm not giving you a hard time -- I'm overweight too. But if you are, and you have back problems, you've got to lose weight. Everything else is a band aide.
The other thing you have to do is strengthen the muscles in your back. Yoga and stretching exercices are good for this.
In the short term a chiropractor will probably make you feel better. I'm typing this through clenched teeth, because those quacks refuse to follow the scientific method, they don't run tests, and lots of them claim they can cure things like ear infections through "spinal cord manipulations". But I have friends who have had positive results.
Fundamentally, you need to reduce the load on your back muscles (lose weight and find a better chair that helps you balance more naturally), and improve the ability of your muscles to handle the load (yoga and stretching).
Anything else is just going to make it easier for you to keep abusing your body, and will lead to grief in the long run.
In today's economy, a smart person with skills is insane to mangle their body for their job. Coal miners in Pennsylvania 75 years ago didn't have many options. You do. Geeking just isn't worth it.
The first thing you need to do is decide what is causing the back pain. I have two arthritic discs (in otherwords, they basically don't do anything useful to the function of my back), scoliosis (the spine is not curved quite the way it is supposed to be, no big deal here), and slight spinal stenosis (the canal the spinal nerves travel down narrows, pinching the spinal cord, the caudal nerves, or the root nerves that branch off). The surgical option is ugly, so I've been going through the gamut of back pain relievers to find an answer. Physical therapy didn't do much good, steiroid epidurals helped a little, going to try accupuncture, etc. Before you decide to go about fixing lower back pain you need to know the source. If the source is fatigue, exercise and a good chair is the answer, as well as modifying your day so you get some regular breaks in the action. As far as what chair is a good chair, people have been debating it for years. Every neurologist I've asked who I've had confidence in has consistently said whatever works best for you. There are some great stores like HealthyBack that actually let you take a chair for 60 days to try out and return if it doesn't work, so you can go from chair to chair until you find the one that works best. I like the Aeron chairs, but don't we all. They're expensive, but cheaper than back surgery because you didn't take care of it. If you don't think your problems are from work for whatever reason, you should see a doctor. Don't walk, run. If pain goes down your leg, that's signs of a more severe problem (not necessarily bad or anything to be concerned about, but something that should NOT go untreated/undiagnosed). Back pain is definitely something worth paying attention to. Unchecked, it gets worse. Guaranteed. It may be tough to make the changes necessary to make it go away, but you will undoubtedly save time and headache in the long run.
I feel the need to totally disagree with you :)
:)
Do NOT exercise daily, especially not off the bat. Build yourself up to 3-4 times a week. Walking is great. Not too much though, and not too much too quick. Abs are definitely a good idea as you mentioned. It is one of the first things you will hear when you see a therapist.
Your spine is definitely not weakest when it is straight, and more importantly, your spine is never straight. Leaning is fine, in fact some of the age old techniques for relieving pain have to do with various spine bending contortions. Lifting is not bad when you're leaning, its bad when you're using your back at all, straight, leaning, whatever. It is next to impossible, but even when you're lifting a pencil, bend your knees and lift your legs. You should never bend your back with your legs straight for any reason, this is a piece most common cause of herniated discs.
Re your back exercise - bad bad bad! With lower back pain, twisting is a bad thing. Don't do it. Really. Don't.
As far as seeing a doctor, you shouldn't go just because you get back pain. Back problems are very over diagnosed. You should go when the back pain stays for 10 or more days. Over 90% of all back injuries heal themselves in a week. You should also try modifying your lifestyle before you see a doctor. If the pain is not traveling down the leg or affecting any of your cognative functions, there is no hurry to see a doctor. Often, you will not even be able to get referred to a specialist without these symptoms unless the pain has become chronic (more than a few months).
Some of the other posts I've read, such as the Alexander Technique, seem to be decent starting points. If you feel the problem is coming from work, the problem is likely curable by modifying that work. A doctor is going to charge you money, tell you to take a few aspirin, and call in a month. I'd recommend reading some lower back pain management books that are out there. Borders and Barnes+Noble have piles of books dealing with it, and judging by some of the advice given here, I'd have at reading them. No one knows the symptoms but you, and none of us here are doctors
The easiest and sfaest way of achieving (1) and, circumstances permitting, some of (2) is to make sure that at least 60% of what you eat is raw. This fixes and/or helps to fix a heck of a lot more than back pain.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
But save your back from the dark side does it not.
Feel the strain in every crumpled muscle, can you? Your own pain come over must you. Only weakness of your own mind is that pain! Full of little knuckles is your spine.
I am an irrational number, not a mere free man!
I think, therefore thoughts exist. Ego is just an impression.
Concentrate a bit to your body, stretch a little and listen to yourself. Daily exercise, not too hard, just to notice and to learn paying attention to what's good and what's bad for your back. You could do any sports, but I've got so bad an attitude against sports that this was practically the only option for me
I am an irrational number, not a mere free man!
I think, therefore thoughts exist. Ego is just an impression.
Concentrate a bit to your body, stretch a little and listen to yourself. Daily exercise, not too hard, just to notice and to learn paying attention to what's good and what's bad for your back. You could do any sports, but I've got so bad an attitude against sports that this was practically the only option for me
I am an irrational number, not a mere free man!
I think, therefore thoughts exist. Ego is just an impression.
For the common (there are some clinic conditions that may need medical advice) back pain, there's 2 or 3 tricks that have helped me so far. This is my non professional advice: 1) Sports: Any sport will do it, try to make some physical activity at least twice a week. Play Tennis, Run from work to home, run in circles, bicicle, soccer, rugby, surfing, swimming...anything! 2) Change your chair: If you care about your keyboard, your mouse, your screen, your OS, your desktop...why not care about your butt comptention device (aka chair), look around at home/office for a chair that's comfortable, the resulting back pain degree at the end of the day is a good measure about finding the right chair. 3) Avoid drugs: In my life, I've avoided all kind of drugs (from tylenol to cocaine), just use pain killers when is ABSOLUTELY NECESARY. Like any drug, the least you take it, the maximun effect you get when you do it. If your body get used to a pain killer, it won't work when points 1) and 2) stop working.
Me too. Not only did Tai Chi help with back pains, but lots of other mental and physical trouble, too. I can concentrate better, my posture is better, my breathing is calmer and deeper, my reflexes are better (Now I can actually catch stuff that I knock off the table - remember Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon? ;o) I feel more at home in my body. The school I attend is The International Tai Chi Chuan Association. They do Original Yang Style.
You do need commitment, but I recommend to at least try it out.
"When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
Try playing goalie (of the hockey variety.) Not only will it suddenly become in your best interest to get in good cardio shape as well as maximize your flexibility.
:)
It will also give you welts, bruises, and knee pain that will make you forget all about your back.
(Actually, I've lost some 10lb, lowered my body fat % very well, and eventually my flexibility caught up with the contortions I was doing and the knee pain stopped. All that over a single winter. Back pain? Can't remember the last time I had back pain. Actually, I can... it was when I discovered I was the world's worst horserider.)
Herman Miller Aeron Chair
I work out of the house, and bought one of these a few years ago. It really is amazing.
Besides the obvious, the body needs muscles to protect itself from injury. I have read that your back will hurt a lot less if you give your abs a good workout every few days. This may be hard for geeks, but it does work.
My back has never given me problems in those months that I had time to hit the gym on a semi-regular basis.
-- bartman
The right chair, sport and the correct posture should help. If your chair is not comfortable you will never sit in the right posture which is really important. A strong muscled back helps to relieve your backbone. Someone mentioned swimming. I prefer inlineskating (yes, it trains the muscles in the back). Complete sit-ups are unhealthy for the backbone.
I don't have problems often, but when I do, over-the-counter Orudis KT (which is ketoprofen) works amazingly well. If you have problem often, I'd recommend a chiropractor.
7 November 2006: The day Americans realized corruption and incompetence weren't addressing 11 September 2001
Excercise, get a good chair, and spend less time hunched over a keyboard and monitor coding.
It doesn't matter. There are a lot of great chairs on the market. Don't sit on a folding chair all day and then wonder why your back hurts. And if you work in an office, make some noise if you have a crap chair. The company I work for just outfitted their new facility with mid-line ($750) Herman-Miller chairs. I wouldn't buy one for my home office, but they're nice.
Sex is certanly one of the ones I would suggest, of course, it is a little difficult without a partner. ;-) But, it is a form of exercise that stresses your abdominal muscles, and that is good. In fact, one of the things that can help your back is beefing up your abs.
:)
/. geek actually got a *DATE*. That alone should be a story on /.)
I used to suffer from crippling back pain, even as far back as elementary school. Some days I could not walk. 7 years ago I took up Kung Fu, and I have found that as long as I make the conditioning classes (many crunches in those) I never have back pain. Now, I go to the Gym as well as Kung Fu, and, seeing as it is summer, I spend 3-4 days a week Whitewater Kayaking.
Personally, I beleive that there is no better excercise than Whitewater Kayaking for your core muscles. (Of course, I played so hard yesterday, I am having trouble sitting straight today!
It all comes down to complementing your muscle groups. If your back is hurting there is a good chance that your abs are weak and thus your posture is off - hurting your back. Excercising opposite muscles to the pain is always a good idea.
If sex (with someone other than yourself!) gives you a good ab workout (it should!), it will help your back, and hey, who ISN'T relaxed after the orgasm?
So, there is my take on the situation. I use all of the above. (Well, except the sex part recently, but I do have a date on Tuesday. No really! A
So in summary. EXCERCISE! Find something you enjoy, that also stresses your core muscle groups. (Just be aware that some stretches can worsen back pain, such as "touching your toes" check with someone who knows.
Try to hack my 31337 firewall!
Absolutely! Find a good comfortable chair (pay whatever it costs) and adjust your desk, monitor, keyboard to make things comfortable. I too had back problems and narrowed down the cause to the cheap chair I used while working on my PC at home. Don't continue working if pain appears. Oh, and do remember to get up and stretch once in a while - a few minor changes in habits like this will prevent more serious injuries down the road. (There IS more to life than sitting in front of a CRT for hours on end ...)
I'm not a doctor, but I've seen one on TV...
Okay, seriously, as someone who's injured their back in the past and been able to overcome it, here's some of what I learned as a result of my experience.
A lot of back pain is caused by tension in your leg muscles (hams, quads, even calves), not necessarily your erector spinae. Personally, when I've been sitting too much, my hamstrings get tight from being in a flexed position continuously. Your hamstrings don't just attach at the base of your ass, they come up over your hip - so pain that you're feeling in your lower back may be coming directly from your hamstrings.
When I injured my lower back, it was actually a pulled left hamstring, but the pain felt like I'd messed up my spine somehow. The doctor wasn't much help, he basically saw me for 30 seconds and wrote out a prescription for pain killers. Then he was out the door and I literally had to stop him to ask what he thought the problem was, and he turned back quickly and said "probably a pulled muscle."
The pain plagued me for a long time, and it wasn't until I returned to stretching and strength training that I was able to make it go away completely. Every time I work out, I stretch my legs thoroughly after warming up and cooling down. The exercise that has made the biggest difference is strengthening my hamstrings by doing stiff legged deadlifts. Plus, strengthening my abs has helped take some of the load from that region.
I guess basically what I'm trying to say is, a great way to prevent back [or other physical] problems is flexibility and strength training, especially in your legs. But don't just go out and make some stuff up on your own, do it right... here are some places to start looking for information:
Cyberpump: The Home of High Intensity Training
Women's Weightlifting tips (but most applies for men as well)
misc.fitness.weights
^X^S ^X^C
I tried it once, but the motor oil stained my clothes. I never asked the mechanic again for body work.
4. Pain relievers just mask the pain, it will hurt twice as bad a year from now if you do nothing about it.
7. Tylonel, and lots of it,
Emm. Okay. To me, this is a contradiction. If it's not, then I don't get it...
Lameness filter encountered. Post aborted.
Reason: Ascii art. How creative. Not here though.
(It was lame, but not ascii art!)
Won't help much. Your muscles will still be weak. Treat the problem and not the symptoms.
I'm sorry to say but this is a Gym Legend.
Squatting deep is safe. You feel the stress in your knees as a beginner because your muscles are weaker there. However, they do get stronger fast when you squat right.
If you don't squat deep, you don't develope your muscles equally and your weaker muscles around your knees have to cope with more weight as you progress which is really not a good idea.
You also have a tendency to squat wrong if you don't go deep. You can see a lot of people at the gym doing 1/4 squats leaning front too much as they are afraid of their knees or loosing balance. That puts stress on the knees while not developing mucle.
You have back pain? Congratulation, it's because your back muscles are way too weak. And not only your back muscles. Same goes with your arms, shoulders, legs etc. Humans were really not designed to sit still. We were made for hard work.
So get your butt to the gym and start lifting weiights. It will strengthen your muscles and you will feel a lot better. However, don't be a fool and lift wrong. Study a bit so you know the right form. Read through Krista's page to find excellent advice and examples of both good and bad form. And if you're put off by the page being Women's Weightlifting Links, I assure you that this girl advices women to work out as men. And you can find a link to more masculine sites from her page anyway. misc.fitness.weights on usenet is also a great source of information.
The basic move to strengthen your back and legs is squat. Start without any weights whatsoever. Then keep your weight on your heels and lower yourself as low as you can and raise back up. I'm talking ass to the grass style here, not 90 degrees or shins to parallel. Add the bar when you get used to the move and then start working out. Don't add so much weight that you don't feel like lowering yourself all the way down. Also, you should be able to lift 8-10 reps.
Other good movements are deadlifts, good mornings, stiff legged dead lifts and side bends. There's a lot to choose from but do use free weights. While machines look nice and safe, they don't give as good results and you can also risk injury as the movements are not natural.
Also, don't be afraid of asking. You'll see big and strong guys at the gym. When you see someone who has apparently been lifting for years, do ask for advice and let him check your form. And don't be ashamed of not lifting as much as he does. After all, he's been lifting for ages and you're just starting your journey towards good health and strong body.
- Celebrex: This is a relaxant that is easy on the stomach. You can talk to your doctor about a prescription. Basically most back problems are caused by inflamation. I was also told that most back problems (spasms that is) will generally go away within about three months, but the cause will still be there, so celebrex it is. Now if you are a serious coder and your a coffee drinker (like I am) then celebrex would probably be the best relaxant due to the fact that prolonged cafeine exposure can cause a reflux (along with nicotine, alcohol and mint). Anything that would be easier on the stomach with stimulants would be better for anyone.
- Your doctor will always tell you to move around, be active, and not to stay in bed or stay off of your feet. The desire to rest may be great, and the desire to not be active may be great, but really it's the best thing for your back. These first two things are the best way to help the situation from occurring often. The third is the way to relieve the pain when it does occur.
- Magna Bloc magnets are the best way I've ever found to relieve pain anywhere in about fifteen minutes. I'm actually very serious about these things. I didn't think they would help the first time I heard about them, but I don't take acetamenophin (sp?) or ibuprofen anymore due to these neo-dymian discs. When my back went out it made my time easier to keep active by using these. I'm not really sure how exactly they work, but any pain you have in your body Magna Bloc will literally relieve it in fifteen minutes. You have to be sure to follow the instructions though. For more information on how to obtain Magna Bloc you can email me.
I hope this helps!"It's here, but no one wants it." - The Sugar Speaker
"My advice to you is to start drinking heavily."
Bluto WAS in Pre-Med, after all.
--
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
Stretching by Bob and Jean Anderson seems to be the book on various kinds of stretches for flexibility, strength, etc.
Stupid job ads, weird spam, occasional insight at
I have had back problems for several years. I thought it was due to the fact that I damaged my back when I was younger. Most Chiropracters told me to come back if I experience pain again (dumb-asses). I finally went to a Chiropracter a year ago and he told me ... you have to do stretch exercises for your lower back. And it WORKED ... >/b>
Life's like that
There is no money to be made by actually CURING ailments. Why do you think the US has no nationalised health care system?
Pharmaceutical companies want you to be constantly repaired.
-- Spankmeister General
Ahh.. lower back pain. Heh. Here's my references. I am an unloader at UPS. My job is to keep pushing junk off the truck. There are three "stopgaps" for lower back ache for me. 1. Ibuprofen. 2. Tiger Balm. 3. Hot baths. Those are the only way I've found to eliminate it or cope with it.
Your mattress MAY be of issue too.
Magnwa
Fantastic way to straighten your spine, reset any popped discs, and relieve back pain.
Nick Waterman, Sr Tech Director, #include <stddisclaimer>
The numer 1 reason nerds in chairs develop back/neck/wrist problems is NOT because of bad posture, but because of lack of exercise; bad posture comes in second. If you have sufficiently developed back muscles/wrist muscles, you simply don't get these problems. Sitting does NOT put an extraordinary strain on a healthy strong back. And we're not talking arnold schwazernegger here.....just ride a bike a few days a week, or go to a gym, or something...
for lower back pain...
1-Lie down on the floor, stomach down.
2-raise your feet and hands, balancing your whole body on your chest and stomach. You will feel your back flex (and that great burning working feeling!)
3- do that for 3 repetitions of 10 seconds or longer. You'll have a back like arnold in no time.
Excepting medical advice on a technology website is a dubious way to solve your problem.
;)
Having said that, I have a little experience in this area so I will give my OWN experience.
I woke up one day with HORRIBLE lower backpain that got to the point that I would program standing up(!).
I am now active again and here is what I did:
1) Tossed the futon, bought a REAL bed.
2) Only use lumbar-suppourted chairs, bought an obus-forme for other chairs.
3) SAW A DOCTOR.
4) Took anti-inflamatories to deal with the pain and the doctor gave me an excercise regime to strengthen the area.
I am now pretty much 'cured'.
A couple of things I learned:
Doctors don't really know much about lower back pain, it is more art than science so you may have to try more than one anti-inflammatory before you hit pay dirt.
Nothing will probably show up on an X-Ray.
Your mother was right, posture is important.
When you screw up your back it is pretty much screwed for life so you have to be diligent with it.
-Hope that helps.
-ShieldWolf
just = (My)Opinion.toCents();
Socrates drank hemlock, not nightshade.
Lowmag.net
Gluclosamine isn't a painkiller, it's a tissue regenerating drug made from shellfish shells. It isn't meant as a painkiller substitute.
Lowmag.net
Wuss. Try traumadol. It's like 3 vicodin in one ;)
Lowmag.net
Simple: go to a doctor. DO NOT go to a GP, but to an orthopedic specialist. Insist on a thorough diagnosis, not "take this, you'll feel better."
Long Story: I injured my back about 14 years ago, while an Officer in the Army. I got the quick diag, and took the dope (motrin, rufin, aspirin, etc.) for years, believing the simple explanation: "It's just stress-induced spasms, learn to deal with it."
I've been putting up with major pain off and on (3-4 times a year) since.
About four months ago, it flaired up again. This time, it got so bad I could hardly walk, and my wife, who is a technician in a specialist's office, insisted that I get seen again, this time properly. 48 hours, one office visit, X-rays and an MRI later, I had a diagnosis: herniated disk (L3-4). Note for the curious reader: I had never had an MRI or an X-ray of my lower back before.
I had a prescription for the good stuff, which helped immeasurably in the short run, and have had two epidural cortisone injections (so far) which have more or less cleared the problem up.
After the first epidural, I began to taper the dosage on the medication, and was completely off of it before the second injection. Since beginning to take it (oxycontin), there have been no less than three major network news stories on it being the abused prescription drug of choice, highlighting it's highly addictive nature, and I decided I didn't want to be a statistic.
A side effect, either of the chronic pain, or the meds (don't know which): I've lost about 30 pounds. This helps a LOT, although I was not massively overweight to begin with.
I fully expect to have surgery some time in the future, but so far, the epidurals are working, and I can walk, and work.
MORAL: I'll celebrate my 40th birthday this fall, and I have suffered unnecessarily almost half my life because of the poor initial diagnosis and the "tough guy" syndrome. If you're young, and have a problem, get it looked into. Most of us work for companies with good health plans... my out-of-pocket costs so far are less than $100.
I wish I'd had this treated even a year ago.....
I have a Japanese girl friend who is the best cure I know for back pain...
realkiwi
About 6 months or so ago I took up Tai Chi which has helped a hell of a lot. Most of the direct help I've had have probably been from some of the 'stretches' we've done, but more than that my posture has changed for the better, my muscles relax a lot easier, and I can tell when something I'm doing it going to aggrivate my back. The most prominent example of this last point is when I'm lying in bed, I find I naturally twist my back. From the stances I've done in Tai-chi I know that twisting the body like that puts strain on the lower back, which is bad (m'kay?)
If you're interested (I should be getting commission for this), I do Wu style Tai-chi, and my teacher's teacher's website is at www.energyarts.com. I know he (B K Frantzis, the teacher) totally smashed in his spine and apparently it was Wu style that got him back on his feet. I believe he has a list of certified teachers on the site.
Incidentally, while I'm here, my teacher (in Ireland) has a pretty cool website at www.taichi-ireland.com.
... so about that commission...
NoimsThis is not the greatest sig in the world. This is just a tribute.
A good back massage can work wonders. Not just a through-the-clothes shoulder rub, but a full Swedish-style massage with oil. Lovely.
++ Say to Elrond "Hello.".
Elrond says "No.". Elrond gives you some lunch.
My lower back is fine, but does anyone have advice for the upper back? Specifically between the lower part of the shoulder blades.
I balked when I read your sentence "...but chiropractic practicioners are just like normal doctors". Luckily, you halfway redeemed yourself by having meant that in an analogy sort of way as far as there are good ones and there are bad ones. Right O there.
But I promise you there is nothing a chiropractor can do that a Physical Therapist cannot. Chiropractors are great for a massage and getting your to hold your posture correctly, but that is about it.
If you think they can cure your cold or alleviate all maner of visceral pains then you are fooling yourself.
Now, I think the majority of chiropractors beleive in what they do and arent purposefully trying to dupe people out of their money, but they were duped by the "School of chiropractry" just like their customers are duped by them.
As long as I'm on my high horse, your first paragraph refers to a chiropractor as a "Doctor [you] know and trust". Physicians are not only insulted but HURT that chiropractors insist on being called "Doctors" when they are nothing of the sort. The "training" they receive is a joke. I'd more readily call someone with a PhD in Business "Doctor so and so" than someone who practices the chiropractic "arts" (note that it is most certainly not a science.)
Please ask a real physician to give you the lowdown on chriopractors. For your own good.
Respectfully,
James
anyone who's met a real physician or been to medical school will tell you that you are wrong.
MD's do not think you can cure everything with a pill or a shot. I don't know why the same people who seem to get duped by chiropractors seem to think this, but that's a whole other conversation.
To say that doctors think everything can be cured with medicine is a farce. I mean its so ridiculous i can't even begin to argue with you??
You're right on when you say pain is the body telling you soething is wrong. Now the moron doctors who barely got into medical school will tell you to take a pill and ignore it. These are often the General practicioners and maybe surgeons. Any specialist or SUBspecialist will know better. If you would like to speak to my dad, who is an MD and a pain expert, you're more than welcome.
Chiroprachtry is a quack. www.quackwatch.com. Or you could ask about my firsthand experiences.
I will admit that chiropractry is good for an excellent massage, but that's about it. A Physical Therapist can do everything a chiropractor can do (except cure the common cold by manipulating the subluxations of my vertebrae hahaha) and it is a far more respected profession.
Please do yourself a favor and get out while you can.
Respectfully (no, really)
James
Hi!
You sould all try swimming! It ends the pain! At least it works for me..
Pecus
As any physical therapist will tell you, back pain is prevented by exercising the abdominals. Assuming you have good posture, that is.
Do Yoga!
Get a unicycle. Fun, stress relieving and it works the lower back just right.
"I also had a bad pain killer addiction"
You weren't really "addicted" to painkillers if you were taking them to really cope with chronic pain, which it sounds to me like you did. You were taking them to get rid of the pain, thats not really an "addiction"; if you kept taking them even when you had no pain then that would be an addiction. Was that the case? Just checking, it wasn't all that clear from the post.
-----
I lived with very bad back pain for about a year. After 5 different doctors (who prescribed progressively stronger pain killers) I went to see a chiropractor. Prior to seeing one, my opinion of chiropractors was that they were about as legit as snake-oil salesmen. However, I'm now a believer. The chiropractor explained what was wrong, why it was wrong, and how he was going to fix it. Something 5 MD's had been unable or unwilling to do. He then proceeded to make good on his word and fix my back. I still see a chiropractor once a month to keep things healthy but the pain is gone. I recommend a good chiropractor and as many other slashdotters have recommended -- lots of exercise! Also, a good cervical style pillow and good mattress can go a long way towards relieving back pain.
Yes, it really works. I was skeptical at first, too, but there is a lot of solid evidence for it and the results are, well, undeniable.
Of course, you could actually try taking care of your back, too. Frequent breaks and good ergonomics are important.
The self-help route, by the way, is rarely effective, regardless of the details. "Stretching," etc. will often only make matters worse. It is far better to prevent than to treat this problem.
A lot of good suggestions above (excercise, posture, etc). One more thing I would like to add as it was explained to me by a doctor. The discs in your back are filled with fluid. When your body is not getting enough fluid, over time it leeches from other places (such as the discs in your back). As the discs shrink, the spine settles, pinching nerves and just generally causing back problems. Moral of the story: drink lots of water on a regular basis! Not only does it help back problems, but it will also flush your body of toxins and help to keep you healthy.
Another thing to try:
Lay down on the floor with your feet flat on the ground and knees bent. Let your legs fall to the left and then to the right. Do this 10 times on each side before you go to bed. If you do this for a few weeks you WILL feel a difference.
--Mike
On a side note: Ulcers can be effectively treated with antibiotics.
Prescription:
1. One pillow
2. One asian girl
3. One shot gin&tonic on rocks
Applied:
1. Lay on your back
2. Place the pillow under your lower back
3. Position carefully the girl on
top of of your lower back
4. Gently rock the girl for about 10 min.
5. After completion, down the shot
6. Have a good sleep
Best results achieved with a japanese girl,
a chinese one also very good in trained properly.
give you a back massage every few nights... does wonders.
'Course, this only works if you have a girlfriend
(I suppose you could have your boyfriend do it if that's fitting for your situation :)
"Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
I beg to differ: Cycling exercises your lower back muscles extensively. It was actually recommended to me by my doctor when he realized that I was a prime target for lower back trouble.
The only caveat is that you should be careful when you have a bout of lower back pain. Other than that, cycling is highly recommended.
I've had back pain off and on for the last several years. Chiropractic definitely helps, but is only a band-aid. I've come to believe that Yoga is a definite solution, if you can discipline yourself to practice regularly. I get too busy at times to fit the 90 minute sessions at the local yoga studio into my schedule, so I've needed an alternate solution. After some discussion with my chiropractor, I've started just doing some standing backbends a couple times a day. Think of it has unhunching. If you're hunched too much of the time, you need to unhunch.
I recommend that you take some yoga classes so that you understand the right way to do backbends, but short of that, try this: stand up. Put your hands on your hips, thumbs in back pointing toward your spine. Contract your abdomimal and lower back muscles to give yourself a firm foundation. Tilt your pelvis forward a little (increase your lumbar curve). Look up. Bend backwards, curving your spine starting at the top and moving downward. Go slowly and carefully, and don't ignore pain. If it starts to hurt, back off immediately and only bend as much as you can comfortably. Try to breath as normally as you can (don't hold your breath!). Hold for a few breaths, then straighten up, and repeat. Do this for a minute or two a couple times everyday, and you should find that after a while you can bend more deeply. When you become confident with your ability, try doing the back bends with your arms raised overhead.
Most of my back pain has been in my upper back, but my chiropractor frequently commented that my lower back needed adjustment as much or more as my upper back. I find that when doing back bends for the first time in a day that there is often a little "pop" in my lower back, much like a chiropractic adjustment. Afterwards, my lower back feels better than normal for a while. But the really great thing is that I'm pain-free again in my upper back, and no longer need to see the chiropractor.
By the way, I've been getting a reasonable amount of exercise lately, and I'm totally convinced that is part of the solution. Someone else commented on the importance of toning your abdominal muscles. I agree, but instead of thinking abdominals only, think all of the core muscles, front and back, around your mid section. Strengthing your abdominals without strengthening your lower back muscles will lead to other undersirable imbalances.
No!!! Do crunches. Situps are terrible for the back. Crunches, done properly, will exercise the same muscles without jarring your back and without such a high risk of tearing muscles.
A couple months ago, I had a very sharp pain in my lower back and so I went to see a physiotherapist. As it turned out, I was sitting improperly in my chair, causing the fluid inside two of my spinal discs to be forced backwards. This puts pressure on the nerves, which of course causes pain.
Probably the simplest thing you can do is to put your hands to your hips and lean far backwards, repeating ten times. Do this every thirty or so minutes when you're working at your computer (you should, after all, get up and do *something* at least once an hour). This helps tremendously! Once the pain is gone, you can still continue this activity every once in a while, to maintain your back.
I've most heard/used "better living through chemistry". Rolls off the tongue more easily, too.
--
"It's tough to be bilingual when you get hit in the head."
A friend has one of these things, and I just saw an infomercial last night on it. I'm getting one because I've felt it do it's thing...it's awesome.
http://www.drhonow.com/
I used to be a truck driver and a furniture mover. I realised that muscles became less stressed when they were hydrated and were less likely to swell if I took an aspirin, naxproxne sodium, or ibuprofin before starting work. I do this now when I know I'm going to be sitting for long time hunched over a keyboard or when I have to lift monitors from one room to the next all day long. I have never had lower back pain yet.
A good chair helps too.
Seriously.
Stop laughing, I mean it. Orgasm has to be about the most effective treatment for lower back pain there is, the procedure isn't objectionable (which isn't the same as "it doesn't suck") and several of the better methods do some pretty good muscle stretches as well.
Now what we need is a Company benefit that covers it.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
I used to have chronic numbness in my elbows; once the inflammation starts, good chairs won't help. A couple hours after my first Bikram class, I noticed the numbness that had been in my elbows for 3 months was gone. As long as I keep going to classes, it doesn't come back.
Try this a couple times a day: stand, put hands behind back, interlace fingers, bend forward and push hands high in the air. Keep pushing them as far back as you can, until you feel your shoulderblades relax and roll back a little. Hold, push, relax. Repeat. This is a great counterstretch for the tension of hunching at a screen/keyboard.
Boss of nothin. Big deal.
Son, go get daddy's hard plastic eyes.
Expanding a vast wasteland since 1996.
I'd been pretty much ignoring back pain for about 6 years until recently, when I finally caved in and went to a chiropractor about it.
As it happened, it was just as well, as other ailments such as shortness of breath I'd been suffering turned out to be directly related to it. Years of hunching over a keyboard means that I walk with enough of a stoop that my ribs are encroaching my lungs space... not a good situation, and apparently not all that uncommon either. I've now got a rigid regime of exercises to combat this... but it could have got a lot worse if my girlfriend hadn't badgered me into going to the doctor about it.
So take my advice and go see your doctor about back pain.
Bzzzzzt..."AAAAaaaaarrrgh!!!" Thud.
Chances are, the hour put in on the computer/sitting are taken off of sleep hours before recreation hours - at least they are for me. (Heck, that's part of the recreation.) When we sit in a chair for X hours a day, immobile, our spine gets compounded and stiffened, which can cause pinched nerves, F'ed disks, etc.
From my experience, most geeks don't get enough sleep. Most/many probably already know this, but we shrink about 1 inch (depending on how long our spine is) throughout the day, and are tallest in the 'morning' (whenever we wake up) because out spine has decompressed throughout our period of sleep.
I don't know if it's scientifically proven or not, but here's my story. I did a little personal experiement to see if it would help my back pain, since the exercise alone really didn't help, but compounded *sic* the issue. (Due to an extra, deformed spinal link between my shoulder blades, most exercise tends to pinch nerves in a crippling, 'I can't breathe' type of way.) For me, getting as much sleep as I possibly could about once a week, plus sleeping - at a very mininum - 7 to 8 hours a night did the trick. Generally, things were only completely kosher with 9+ hours, and would hurt in the evening with anything less than 7.5.
I was able to do this experiment since *gasp* I'm a college student. *g*
Back stiffness can also be avoided if you take a break from the keyboard every half an hour or so and do a minimal amount of exercise - a couple jumping jacks, stretching, 10 pushups or so, some situps, etc.
-------
CAIMLAS
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
First off, get to a doctor, and go from there.
However...
My experience started last October - I was working on a gocart, and while seated, turned my body to put the steering wheel back in place, and threw my back out - major pain. I couldn't even stand up properly.
What I realized prior to that moment was that there was a ton of warning signs - I would have a stiff back if I sat for long periods in that same position ("Indian-style" - no offence to NAs), etc - that I had ignored.
Well, I went to my doctor, and I was given Ibuprofen - 600mg - 3 a day. That made the pain go away, and I rested for a month - no hard work, etc. But then, I tried to ride the gocart, and fucked my back again. This time, I went back to using the IB, ran out - couldn't get another prescription, so I got some "south-o-the-border" IB, and took that. I ran out again, bought some over the counter 200mg, and took four (up to 800mg) - at one point I got to where I was up all night in pain, taking god-knows how much IB (I know at one point I was doing 1200-1400mg a couple of times a day - still prescript strength, but not for this), and it wasn't doing jack (oh, BTW - the side affect of IB causing constipation is true!).
At that point, not knowing how much I was really taking, wondering about the effects on my liver, and why my back pain wasn't going away, I figured "Fuck it, they ain't working - I don't need them" and I stopped the IB.
In less than two days my pain was majorly reduced - in a week, gone. I haven't tried riding my gocart in months (might go crazy sometime and try it again - who really knows). I get up out of my chair more often, and basically try to keep from being a desk spud. Stretching and exercise help as well.
I am still uncertain whether the IB was actually not working, or whether something else was going on, I don't know - but all I do know is that the pain went away when I stopped taking the meds...
Worldcom - Generation Duh!
Reason is the Path to God - Anon
http://www.jwz.org/gruntle/wrists.html
Careful with the tylenol. There are a number of folks waiting for liver transplants because of overdoing tylenol -- just ONCE.
If you're using it routinely at max doses, you should have a liver function scan once a year or so. Same goes for heavy ibuprofen use.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Taken from the toggle web site
Of course, stand-up desks have been around for a long time, and some pretty famous people have used them. Sir Winston Churchill, Ernest Hemingway, John Dos Passos, Virginia Woolf, and even Thomas Jefferson worked at these unique desks.
I've also hears stories about a group of CEOs from years ago that didn't sit down at work.
A couple of quick, easy steps:
1. Lose weight. That sysadmin/coder's gut is pulling your back the wrong way.
2. Excercise. Flab doesn't hold your back together the way toned muscle does.
3. Posture. Sit and stand so that you don't stress your back. Get a good chair and lose that gut!
I had niggledy back problems until I turfed my shonky swivel chair and insisted on a proper typist's chair (high back, arm rests). If you can't get professional advice, read about properly setting up your computer (monitor height, how your arms hang, etc.). That was 5 years ago, and I haven't had a problem since (I also got a futon mattress at the same time).
You might also consider getting a giant inflatable ball to sit on. Yes, really. You can't just sit on it and you do a bit of exercise just keeping yourself upright.
Xix.
"Everything is adjustable, provided you have the right tools"
Hey now,
I've been dealing with severe low back pain for 25 years and the only thing that works over a long peroid of time is exercize. Sorry, I hate to exercize too, but it works better than anything else. Walk daily, work out(in a gym) at least 3 times a week, swim as much as possible and ride a bike. Sounds hard and it is but if you make yourself do this (of course, checking with your doctor and not overdoing it) you will feel much better after about a month or two.
Remember,you don't know until you find out...and you may still not.
> This was recommended to me by my chiropractor (yes, they actually do work) who unfortunately now hasn't seen me for about a year.
Yeah, but even without moving your wallet, your back would've been better. Indeed, after going to the chiro, it was empty, and thus much less of a bulge...
Shovel 4 and a half tons of top soil into a wheel barrow, and cart it all over the yard, spreading evenly with a rake. It hurts after the forth trip.
Why I ever let a person with a green thumb into my life is beyond me.
--Nuintari
slashdot : where an opinion can be wrong.
Female Prison Rape in NY
Yes, absolutely! I have scoliosis and in two places my spine curves sideways at 26 degrees. I meditate at least one hour a day and if I did not do stomach crunches (I can't do sit-ups) the pain from sitting up for so long would be absolutely unbearable. About five minutes a day of stomach crunches makes my back be a non-factor in any activity save heavy weight lifting. And to think my doc wanted to give me spinal fusion!
If you have a decent quality work chair, and adjust your seat correctly you can pretty much do away with the back pain (lower your chair so your legs are at 90 degrees...or even to the point that your knees are a bit above your hips...then lower your monitor, etc. accordingly).
My problem is with my hips. I'm always crossing my legs one way or another, resting my elbows on the arm rests, slouching this way or that. You have to do something other than sit directly on your ass all day. I guess the only solution is the get up frequently and stretch/move around, and to get some decent exercise outside of work.
BTW, you know that study that found that some given percentage of people that sat on long airplane trips would get embolisms, etc? Well, guess what else is very similar? Sitting on your butt all day in front of a computer.
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
Yep, yoga is the answer. Now, what was the question again? :)
Seriously ... the sedentary office lifestyle
might have been designed to foster ill-health of all kinds. Take a yoga break every few hours;
you don't need to work up a sweat, or even do
a headstand. You mostly need
to make sure your spine stays flexible all day.
Stretching, twisting, bending ... when do you
do those (in good ways) sitting or
meeting all day?
And remember to breathe well. If you do that right, your other stress levels' will drop. And it strengthens your abdominals, which help your back. If your back is giving you problems, likely the rest of you isn't far behind.
Just say "No!" to pharmaceuticals.
Simple, dear boy. You need to work out your abs and gluts and back by grabbing your wife (or other s.o.) and giving him/her/it/them a good poking. This will do wonders for you, believe me, and as a side effect, you'll be away from the keyboard for at least 15 minutes (longer for some) which will help on it s own.
I've had alot of success with Pilates, which is a form of exercise that was originally developed for dancers. It focuses on strengthening the core muscles in your abdomen, which then helps you sit and atand up straighter.
... and it's provided results in a very short amount of time!
You use a machine (I give out extra bonus points for specialized machines in almost any activity - especially exercise) which attaches loops to pulleys which connect to the carriage you are laying on. You pull your own body weight with your arms and legs in different exercise, while stabalizing yourself with your stomach muscles. It stretches and strengthens your muscles at the same time. there are decent pictures of machines at http://ageless.com/pilates.htm> There is also mat work, but I don't know about that...
I hate working out, and this class is interesting enough to keep me engaged, and doesn't have that Jamie Lee Curtis in 'Perfect' vibe that step aerobics and such have
I have gone through various different pain killers (mostly ibuprofin, ASA), and physio, and, and and...
I found in the end there was only one solution: Stop hunching over in front of your computer!
This can be accomplished in a number of ways (which I recommend you do all of them!)
Physio therapy is often very helpful, in that the therapist will force you to do excercises that target the muscle groups that you need to strengthen. That plus other therapies including masage, chiropractic adjustment, ultrasound, etc can make a big difference. Overall though, it is the excercise that does the most. Most pain from computers is caused becuase your muscles aren't doing their job properly -- target excercises strenthen them and make you more aware of how to use them.
Disclaimer: IANAD (Like IANAL, but D for doctor). If your are in that much discomfort, you should be seeing a doctor, and getting an evaluation from a physio therapist. Important note though: The longer you wait to do somthing about it, the worse the damage and the longer and harder to fix it.
More Caffeine. NOW
Don't worry, the next Ask SLashdot asks about who's the biggest bankruptcy attourney in all of Minnesota?
(anyone who watches channel 9 in the daytime knows what I'm talking about. Nothing but commercials for the ComfaRest adjustable bed and dial L-A-W-Y-E-R-S)
mod me down accordingly
A few months ago, I started getting some pretty severe back pain. At first it only happened when I bent down, like to tie my shoes or something. As time went on, the pain got worse, and not only that, but I didn't have to bend down as far for it to hurt. By the time I decided to get help, I could only bend down a couple of inches before the pain was unbearable, and since it's essentially the same motion, I was also having trouble walking, epsecially up and down stairs.
The first thing I did was go to see my doctor. He checked out my symptoms, and told me he wanted me to get an MRI and a few other things. Well, this is the first time in my life that I've done this, but I completely ignored his advice. I went to find myself a chiroprator instead.
The chiropractor had me get an x-ray, but that was just to confirm his suspicions (which were correct, btw). One of the discs in my back, near the bottom, had slipped out of place a little bit. Ironically, the rest of my back was so good he said he'd use my x-ray as an example of what a "normal" back looks like.
So he gave me some light PT (10 minutes per visit with a TENS machine, and some bending and twisting, popping almost every vertebra in the process), and some stretches and excercises to do. I'm not 100% better yet (partly my fault, I don't do the stretches as much as I should), but I can actually walk now without discomfort. I'm back to the beginning symptoms, where only bending over/extending my legs really far causes pain.
Especially considering that my doctor probably would have put me on all sorts of pain killers, and maybe even put me in for surgery, and since the chiropractor was covered by my insurance, I think I made the right choice.
So maybe you'd like to explain why you think chiropractors are idiots?
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"I personal[ly] think Unix is "superior" because on LSD it tastes like Blue." -- jbarnett
I have a bad back. The best thing I've done for it is to buy a good chair. Aeron chairs aren't cheap but they have helped my back a LOT. Well worth every penny I paid for it, and you can get them for a deal right now from a failed dotcom.
Second, get out and do something. Walk a few miles every day..bike...something. That'll help strengthen your back.
Yoga, with it's emphasis on spinal health is a far better remedy that has wider ranging benefits than simply relieving your aching back.
Increased flexibility, increased youthfulness, and generally increased health are all things that America needs.
This post encoded with ROT26. If you can read it, you've violated the DMCA. Handcuffs please, sergeant.
Sex, like any other form of exercise, requires precautionary measures. I started having lots of sex without first consulting my family physician, or even doing pre-sex warm-up stretches, and now I've got to have surgery for my hemorrhoids. :-)
But lower back pain? Gone!
"Smear'd with gumms of glutenous heat, I touch..." - Comus, John Milton
The House Between - Original Sci-Fi Series
Good chair:
Check!
Some kind of physical activity for fitness:
Check!
Regular breaks away from my chair:
Check!
Blake's 7 quote:
Check!
//rdj, not making much sense as usual
No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587
Sounds plausible, and if it works for you then it's got to be good, at least in part.
;) then you may find you get neck problems from moving your whole head from the monitor to the keyboard, rather than just flicking your eyes.
You may experience different problems though. If your arms are raised then you're putting stress on your back by lifting them. This is why the height of any desk is important.
If you can't touch-type (but it sounds like you can
Also, standing up for prolonged periods is very bad for your blood and lymphatic circulation, especially up to 12 hours at a time. It can lead to increased risk of blood clots in the large veins in the legs. I don't mean to worry you though... sitting down for lengthy periods is just as bad. Basically we're not designed to be sedentary. We eat too much, don't get enough exercise, so it's no wonder we suffer.
For all of you who read this nice story and believed it, don't! I happen to be the posters brother and he is lying! This is not a joke! He was NOT diagnosed for back pain @ 18, he was already hooked on drugs! His family had to move him out of his apt when he broke his ankle and take care of him like he was a baby (like so many other times) He did not do physical therapy (as said by him later in the thread) he did not do aikido! He is lying and he is trying to get sympathy. I am not Trolling, I am a younger brother who is pissed. He believed his own lies and it is sad.
"He who laughs last is usually the dumbest kid on the block." - John Lennon
In Canada/Mexico/Net Codiene can be purchased over the counter. But I also suggest a better chair and ergonomic devices. A little money now for these devices saves Big money, pain and suffering in the future.
Ok, I'm expecting some rabid disagreement on this, but the time period of my life when I had the least back trouble, was when I was doing deadlifts regularly. Since quitting, I think I have back trouble less often than I had it before my stint of deadlifting, but I am getting it a little bit again.
A lot of folks say you should never deadlift. I tried it for a while, and got to really like it. It thickened my "love handles", which isn't the most aesthetic thing in the world, but folks, that muscle is stabilizing, and it taught me proper form for picking up heavy objects.
A burst disc is when the disc has ruptured and the fluid filling of the disc itself is pouring out of the disc and into the dural cavity. This is usually accompanied by extreme pain because the disc is no longer able to support the pressure between the two verterbra, and these crush the remains of the disc and rub against each other.
Personally, I went to the best chiropractor I know of (I have an appointment today, too). In my case, I came to him for the first time and I was unable to tie my own shoelaces. I also had some parasthesia (partial loss of feeling) in my lower left leg.
After about 10-12 treatments, I have almost no pain at all. My suggestions:
Hope this helps someone.
My doc told me a little stat that he was fond of: When they compared recoveries of various back pain patients (chiropratic, physio, surgery), they all recovered in almost exactly the same time. The fact is, you do what is best for you, but do SOMETHING.
I went on physio for a while, then to the chiroprator. After a year of the chiroprator telling me that he could cure anything from warts to the common cold (and running out my insurance), I decided to take my physio therapist's advice and do twice daily stretching plus exercise. I found a good bike and started riding to work.
After another year, I was finally without pain. I know, that sounds like a long time, but all that stuff in your back takes a long time to heal.
So, bottom line:
Good luck buddy. The one in three people in the US who suffer from back pain are all with you.
"You can't have everything. Where would you keep it?" -- Steven Wright
I had a sore back and a recurring pain in my right shoulder. In the end, I bought a new chair with cool hydraulic levers and stuff and haven't haven't had a problem since.(ie. i started using the keyboard, monitor whatever at the correct height).
Nevrar
Just came back from a great workshop for a particlar way of Yoga that I started a year ago because my back problems were killing me. They are much better now, BTW. The main problem with our specialized lifestyle is that most of us are doing one thing in one position for 50% of our daily time. The nice thing about Yoga, as oposed to other kinds of sports, is that it is so versatile. There is no part of your body that is not taken care of, while, with other kinds of exercise, like running, you might just damage another part of your body with repetitive stress. Exercise in a gym, which also looks versatile, puts you in the danger of using too much weight (most of us are male, after all), which might hurt you again. All Yoga exercises just use you body weight. One last thing: I found Astanga yoga particularly nice because you are in constant movement and it is very precise. Every movement, every breath, even the gazing point of your eyes are prescribed. If you do it correctly, the concentration that is needed, will almost automatically lead you into meditation and, for a short time of your day, will bring your mind into a state of calmness :-)
I have been dealing with back pain for about 10 years. Here is a quick summary of my experiences.
...
:-( This chair has definately helped my back, but my habits diminish its effects somewhat since I slouch and slide down quite far on my chair (resting on my neck and lower back instead of my bum). As an aside, I also bought gel wrist supports for keyboard and mouse and that cleared up my strain injuries almost immediately (FYI).
CHIROPRACTIC: I have seen at least 8 different chiropracters. Four of them have given me noticable results, and two of them have claimed to be able to "fix" me. There are at least three different styles of chiropractic that I have encountered. The most common is the manual adjustment type where the chiropracter uses his/her hands to adjust the spine. These adjustments are most often accompanied by a popping sound (like cracking your knuckles). Many chriopracters also have a masseuse in the office. I have just left seeing a chiropracter who uses a device called an "activator". This is kinda like a spring loaded finger which is used to administer the adjustments. Symptomatically, I improved from its use, but I felt that it was impersonal and was _only_ dealing with the symptoms. My wife started seeing a chiropracter who uses "active release technique" which involves vigorous massage at the same time as the adjustments are done, plus a very comprehensive set of exercises and stretches which are a requirement for the treatment. I have just switched to this doctor and I am very impressed. Many chiropracters do not prescribe an exercise regimen even if it is requested. I have felt that this is a major flaw in the common practice of chiropractic. The three times I have seen chiropracters who have recommended an exercise program, I have noticed improvements and while I do my exercises those improvements are maintained, even if I stop seeing the chiropracter.
SHIATSU MASSAGE: When I worked at Sun for a short time the division I was part of brought in a Shiatsu massuese for anyone who wished it. These felt _fantastic_ and were very energizing, and would temporarily make my back feel better. Again, though, I felt like this was mostly addressing symptoms rather than root causes.
ALEXANDER TECHNIQUE: Up until a year ago I had never even heard of this. My mother has been receiving treatment and training for the past year. She raves about it as directly addressing the root habits which cause back and other structural problems (which in turn can cause some other symptoms of ill health). She has given me two treatments to demonstrate it. I feel that if I had the time I would definitely pursue it, however it is a very intense course: 4 hours a day five days a week. Basically, it is a very mental process in which you are made aware of your mental control of your physical condition.
EXERCISE: Lets face it - most computer professionals or geeks are basically not living a lifestyle compatible with regular systematic exercise. Probably this is "bad" and "should" be changed somehow, but it won't be in the foreseeable future. I am lucky enough to work from home full time where I can easily get up from my work many times a day without anyone asking stupid questions. If you can, the minimum exercise you should get is to do many different small stretches during the day while you are working, ideally every twenty minutes to half an hour. The real ideal of course is to also get true cardiovascular and strengthening exercise every day, and eat lots of veggies and fruit, and spend time outdoors, and, and
MARTIAL ARTS: I just started taking Kempo Karate which is karate with strong chinese influences. I found that the regular exercise made me feel great but it didn't help my back much per se. Rather, on ocaision, I would do something in class which would put my back out more! In other word, _be_ _careful_. All that said, for general physical fitness and usefulness and mental discipline, not much beats a martial art!
CHAIR AND OTHER EQUIPMENT: Last summer I developed a pretty serious case of repetitive strain injuries in my wrists and fingers. So I decided to get serious about my home office environment. I purchased a good chair with a high back and (for me) comfortable lumbar support. Very adjustable, but not an Aeron
http://www.oomind.com/
Helping with organizational effectiveness is our job.
Although a high-tech chair may be the geeky thing to do: A much cheaper inflatable gymnastic ball is my choice. They cost only around 40 Euros (or $) (and about 15mins to inflate). Choose one that is appropriate for your height.
I've been using those as regular office and home working chairs for several years now and am really happy, because I have not only less back pain but also less cramped neck muscles.
Sitting on such a ball is real fun. The nice thign about is that you _have_ to move around a lot while sitting on it, because no position is completely stable. This is not uncomfortable, but trains your back muscles on-the-fly. Apropos fly: I prefer to have a wall about 40cm behind me while working to avoid falling over backwards. This is also nice because you can boing-boing-boing against the back wall while thinking about a problem.
And you can bounce around happily when you found the bug.
My favorite maneuver is to lay on my back on the ball and touch the ground behind me with my hands while keeping my feet on the ground in front, and then roll the ball around a little to relax the muscles in the back.
A problem might be whether such a sitting device is tolerated by your working environment/employer. But if you explain that it's for health reasons (and do not bounce around too much in the beginning...)
Sometimes I reset to regular chair for a week to increase the different sitting positions my back is exposed to.
My problem has been with my butt hurting, not so much my back. What I finally did was buy a Herman Miller Aeron chair off of ebay. It's very comfy! :)
:)
:)
With tension, I had a sort of pent up frustration with driving to work. Sometime after I got a speeding ticket on my way in, I started a sort of bio-feedback on my driving. I started to be able to relax. Now I have fun driving the speed limit and pissing off the people who want to pass me.
The next step is to start throwing things out my sun roof at the tail gaters.
Keep this in mind... I still like to drive fast, but I live in south Florida. All the "blue hairs" tend to drive about 5-10 miles under the posted speed limit. So if I do drive the speed limit, I'm going pretty fast.
It's mandatory to wash your hands before returning to the land of Dairy Queen.
i found back pain quite a problem until a few months ago, when i tried a radical solution, which has worked brilliantly well.
i now never have any trouble, even after a 12 hour session.
... and the solution is: to work standing up!
i've put my monitor up on a chest-of-drawers on my desk so it's at my head level when i'm standing, and i've set up a desk surface (a good deal higher than the 'real' desk) for my keyboard and mouse, at a comfortable height.
give it a try! it takes a bit of getting used to, but it worked really well for me.
...after all, we didn't evolve sitting in chairs - we were standing or lying down most of the time...
mi save tingting long peles bilong mi long Niu Ailan.
I haven't looked into this yet, but what about hacking one of those RSI scripts so it pops up a little window every so often that says "sit up!" or something?
I would agree with others on exercise, and on stress relief. Chronic back pain is just as much mental as it is physical, and a neato desk or a fistful of drugs won't help that. Take breaks, chill out, go for a walk, and learn to meditate, even if it's just closing your eyes and repeating "it's almost Friday" a few dozen times.
- Environment is important. Get an Aeron. Get an adjustable foot rest. Get a sturdy keyboard tray that doesn't interfere with your knees, and keep the mouse ON IT so you are not bending forward to use it. That last part is often missing.
- Have some sort of regular bodywork. Some chiropractors can do miracles; even if their mental model for what they're doing is whacked, the manipulation itself helps loosen you up, same as massage, only covered by insurance. (But do check out www.quackwatch.com for some strong contrarian views.) If you don't like chiropractic, get massages, or physical therapy (also covered to a point).
- Do your OWN bodywork. Exercise is critical. The simplest exercises can help your lower back, like lower-ab crunches (lie on your back, bring your knees up without using momentum, hold) or back bridging (lie on your back, hands over your head, palms to the floor, lift with hands and knees and arch your back). Get "Stronger Abs and Back", by Dean and Greg Brittenham, and read it.
I've had lower back pain for years that has been reduced a lot - I feel - by taking Glucocamine and Chondroitin. I started taking it for my bad knees and noticed that the episodes of bad back pain have been nearly eliminated. My knees are a lot better too.
It takes 6-10 weeks of taking it before you start to get benefit, though.
But, do the exercise and stretching too, those are what will really help.
I'll probably go back to a chiropractor, since some of that insight is how my spine and hips move together, and that's some thing chiropractors mess with a bit more directly that may help me benefit from some of the other techniques. Also, now that I'm getting my lazy butt into the gym more often, I'm finding that alignment issues affect my running, and the hip bone really *is* connected to the leg bone, etc.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Some of the newer foam technology is really nice, and helped a lot for some of my problems. I don't know if waterbeds are a good idea long-term - some people swear by them, some people view them as leftover hippie stuff (some of us view them nostalgicly as old hippie stuff :-) The newer versions give you ways to cut down on sloshing around and make the things easier to handle. I've never been that impressed with futons, but they work for some people. Some people do well with extra padding, though too much usually means you're not getting enough support, which is bad for your lower back, though it may be just great for your shoulders.
So experiment. Hack your bed.
Bill Stewart
New Fast-Compression-only CPR http://preview.tinyurl.com/dy575ks
Yup, I too suffer from lower and mid back pain. I do a lot of exercise (I do triathlons, so I get 7 to 15 hrs a week of training meaning swimming, running, cycling and weights). I have regular visits to my physiotherapist (twice a month, more if I hurt more), I get massage therapy twice a month (more if I hurt more), I have learned to stretch, and I have increased the strenth of my core trunk muscles (using a balance ball, a medicine ball, and other such torture device - yoga and Pilates will also provide much of the same results). Strengthening your core muscles and learning how to use them will help immensely when it comes to balance, strength, and posture. All of which will make your back hurt less.
All that being said, you should:
I had my workstation set up examined by one of my employees who had back problems as well, and who has become a bit of an ergonomics expert (as a result). I changed my chair configuration, raised my monitor and got a raised foot rest (yes, I'm short). And my back is better than ever. All these good things put together are working for me. However, it will take you some serious time and investigation to find out what will work for you.
And when it comes to doctors (GPs or specialists), do your homework before you go and ASK LOTS OF QUESTIONS. You, as a patient, must take an active role in ensuring you get the best medical treatment for your condition. If you don't like the answer or explanation you get from your doctor, demand more information.
"Content's a bitch."
I use this chair from Stokke. I was going to buy one when I found one in the garbage room in my apartment house, brand new. Talk about throwing away money!:-)
Soma!
- sleeping only on my back, not on my stomach. Sleeping on your stomach causes your spine to bend backwards, which is really bad. Sleeping on the side isn't any better, but I never did that anyway.
- taking calcium suppliments. This is also good for minor joint and muscle pains.
- exercising. I recommend a Bowflex. It's expensive, but it's the only exercise machine I've liked.
Assuming your problems are like mine, you should see improvement in about a month.--
Lord Nimon
And the men who hold high places must be the ones who start
To mold a new reality... closer to the heart
Ask him/her what kind of chair he recommends, what posture is best, what supports produce the most natual movement, what are the proper placements for keyboard, monitor, mouse, desk, and chair height.
:)
An orthopedic specialist will probably tell you to keep a good posture while working. If you have to arch your neck your monitor is too high. If you have to hunch over, your keyboard is too low.
If you're in your twenties or thirties consider this preventative maintenance to keep yourself from having the posture of Quasimodo thirty years from now. If you have back pain now, this will help more than all the homeopathic herbal feng shui stuff can ever accomplish.
Get off my virtual lawn, you damned virtual kids!
First, see an orthopedist. You may have just a simple back strain, or it could be something more serious (herniated or deteriorating disks, damaged muscles, etc.) You may just need something as simple as physical therapy and a change in how you work. Sit properly: your feet should be flat on the floor, with your hip bone slightly below your knee level. Use a chair that gives you some support, or place a pillow behind your back. Get up at least once an hour and stretch a bit, maybe walk around. And take a long walk after work-it helps! Stretch in the morning and in the evenings; get some simple stretching exercises from your doctor or physical therapist. If you take Tylenol or Advil daily, you are doing severe damage to your liver and kidneys! Take them only when needed, and not for more than one or two days. See your doctor; they may prescribe something less damaging and more effective. I take Vioxx when I need it (which is usually when I've been having to move lots of equipment around). Pain kilers are a useful when you do initial damage to help you relax, but they can also mask more damage if you do not change your habits! Get a very firm mattress, it makes a difference. Hope this helps...
Ill keep things natural and suggest cannabis.
well cannabis doesn't do much except make you forgetful and stupid which doesn't make you a very effective person while it's relieving pain. codeine is nice, but it requires a perscription. personally i suggest cocaine as it's "natural" as well, doesn't require a perscription, relieves pain AND it makes you more productive (longer attention span, easier to concentrate).
...or you could just get a better chair. your choice.
- j
1) Exercise as others have helpfully mentioned
2) Buy a Herman Miller Aeron chair. This will be the best 700 dollars you ever spent. Your back will love you for it. I got one for work and one for my office at home, I loved it so much.
Over the past ten years, I have found the single most effective way to deal with or prevent lower back pain is to do the 20-minute stretching portion of Kathy Smith's Instant Workout Tape on a regular or as-needed basis. Seriously. I still use it, though not nearly as often as I should. (It also helps with my weight lifting--both the pumping-iron kind and the moving-my-bloated-aging-carcass-around kind.)
This is not a commercial endorsement. No money changed hands. Your mileage may vary. Void where prohibited. ..bruce..
Bruce F. Webster (brucefwebster.com)
The real issue is exercise, of course. But for serious back pain, not just any exercise will do - i.e. running or jogging can exacerbate back problems. If you're worried about your back being hurt, talk to a doctor or physical therapist first
Your doctor will prescribe painkillers, and maybe if you're lucky a course of physiotherapy. You'll be attacking the symptoms, not the cause.
Alexander Teachers are trained professionals - they train for three years and continue training for the rest of their careers.
Don't just write it off because you've never heard of it.
--
http://www.gimbo.org.uk/
True, habits aren't always the cause of the problem - but the question referred to "hours of hunching over a keyboard and coding away". For that kind of problem, there's no quesiton in my mind that AT would be a fantastic idea.
-Andy
--
http://www.gimbo.org.uk/
If you're interested in attacking the cause of the problem rather than just the symptoms, you might want to investigate Alexander Technique .
:-) But with patience and the help of a skilled teacher, progress can be made.
;-)
The basic idea behind the technique is that we build up bad habits of usage in our bodies, and that they are what lead to these problems - so if we can correct these usage patterns then we can prevent problems rather than just treat them. Unfortunately it's hard to correct our habits, because they're, er, habitual.
Painkillers, massage, chiropracters, etc. are all well and good, but ultimately you're only treating the symptons. This is true even of massage - sure, you might get rid of the tension that's causing the back pain, but if it's you that's putting that tension there, you're going to put it back there and start the cycle again. Alexander Technique is about breaking the cycle.
My experience: I'm a programmer, and I've sufferred from both back pain and wrist pain increasingly over the last couple of years which is why I went looking for a solution. I've been a student of the technique for about six months now, and it's definitely helping me. It's put me in touch with my body in that I can now recognise when and where I'm holding excess tension, and it's also teaching me how to go about correcting it properly. (Half of the problem is that we have a "deranged" sense of what our own bodies are doing, so very often the right thing to do feels wrong, and the thing that feels right is actually wrong!).
These days my back and wrists simply don't hurt me as much as they used to. That's not the end of the story though, because it's a holistic process. For example, I also discovered that when I'm driving, I clench my jaw, ramming my tongue up behind my teeth. There's no good reason for doing that, so I'm learning to stop. It's a long process, but it's definitely working - and helping.
The only problem with the technique is that it's pretty expensive (mainly because it's taught one-to-one) - but I consider it to be an investment in my future health, and hey, as a programmer I can afford it.
If you're really serious about sorting out your back pain or RSI, I heartily encourage you to give it a shot.
Best of luck,
-Andy
--
http://www.gimbo.org.uk/
first of all,what makes you think that:
a) becouse something is synthetic it will fuck up your brian?
b) just becouse something is natural that is wont?
Secound of all, codine is an opiate. and opium is just a derivative of the popy plant, which would make codine natural also.
first of all, What makes you think that:
a) becouse something is synthetic it will fuck you up?
b)just becouse something is natural that it won't?
Second of all, codine is an opiate. and opium is just a derivative of the popy plant, which would make it natural also.
I had a lot of back pain for about two years. After getting fed up with it, I saw a physical therapist through my university. He thought the pain was being caused by stress. The stress made the muscles around my back sore and led to the pain. He taught me two simple excercises which vanquished the pain almost entirely. When I feel the pain start to creep back, I just do the excercises for a few days and it dissapears again.
1. Sit on the floor with your feet in front of you. Bring your right leg towards your body into a bent position. Now cross it over your left leg. Finally, bend your left leg, but keep it on the ground. You should end up with your right knee in the air and your right foot on the left side and left foot on the right side. Hard to describe without a picture. Anyway, hold this position for 5 minutes breathing in and out deeply. Switch sides and repeat.
2. Lay on your back with you legs propped up on the wall. Your butt should be all the way up against the wall. Breath in and out deeply and press down with your lower back on the outbreath (I think). Also 5 minutes.
The breathing is really important. It seems like he was describing the same kind of breathing done in Yoga, but basically breath through you stomache, not your chest.
In the begining you should do both of these in the morning and at night. When you pain starts to get better you might reduce the amount you do this. It worked wonders for me.
If you need help with this, email me and I will see if I can find or scan some pictures for you.
Back pain due to bad posture is generally muscle related (IANAD, so take this with a grain of salt), unless you're talking about really long term damage, like decades. Muscle related back pain can generally be cured with proper exercise. Strengthening the muscles keeps everything where it should be and reduces or stops pain altogether.
I injured my back almost 20 years ago. The result was a severely strained muscle which left one hip a little higher than the other. Hard to believe a muscle strain can do that.
Through exercise, though, I have been able to keep the pain away for the past 8 years or so. It takes discipline, though. You need to exercise your back regularly. Not every day, once you've strengthened it, but at least once a week (in my case).
For lower back pain, I've found the most successful exercise, by far, is lying on the floor on my stomach with my arms at my side. You then arch your back and lift up your chest. Do this slowly, and repeat as many times as you can. You'll feel it. Also, touching your toes is a good way to stretch your back.
Finally, and probably most importantly, get a good chair. Nothing pays for itself better than a good work chair. I have bought my own for work and for home, simply because there are few things as disabling as back injuries and having been through severe back pain, I'll do what's needed to keep it away.
If pain persists though, see a doctor. Avoid pain killers as a long term treatment. For temporary relief, they'll do fine. A chiropractor is a good quick fix as well, but it doesn't get to the root of the problem, it's simply a short term solution in most cases (unless you'd like to pay to go regularly).
Hope you find this information useful.
Don't forget iaido. It's generally within the physical capabilities of most people, the movements can be gentle, and it emphasizes good posture. Or maybe sensei emphasizes good posture...
I am on the computer an average of 12 to 16 hours per day (depending on the day), and for a long time I was always hunched over so I would have good access to the keyboard. At least that's what I thought. About a month ago I decided to take advantage of my wife's excellent vision plan (I'm a consultant and have no insurance) and take care of some checkups that I'd not had for a while, the most notable being a vision checkup. I hadn't had one since probably 6 years ago in high school so I was curious. Now this wasn't because my eyesight looked bad or anything, I was just wanting to make sure things were going along like they should.
After a few minutes in the chair, I found out that I had astigmatism, which if you are in your early 20s will make farther away stuff look blurry and closer stuff look clear due to your lens growing too fast (or so they told me). The doctor said that people often will lean forward or generally bring the viewed object closer without even realizing it. This sounded like a familiar song and dance (since I was acutely aware of my bad posture and the problems it causes), so I shelled out the money for some glasses.
Ever since doing so, I don't ever lean forward and things are noticably clearer. I was surprised, I hadn't even noticed that my vision was getting out of whack. My back hasn't hurt since.
It's true. Simple exercise, sleep and resting enough and healthy food is worth much more than pain blockers. Avoid the pain rather than mask it and let it get worse. Many people in my yoga glass have came as a need or out of despiration to heal themselves. Chiropractors, physiotherapists, trainers, etc. All had tried but who cares most about your body? Of course it's you. Almost any exercise is helpful but low impact and technique emphasising ones are build for the long haul. Thousands of years of yoga refinement has made the practice efficient and effective. Take things gradual, try to include exercise in your day. Use the stairs rather than elevator. Have a brief (or long) walk after lunch. Bike or walk to the local store. efg
Yoga has worked wonders for me. As a consultant, I spend a lot of time seated at my desk, slaving over a hot keyboard. This is particularly tough on my lower back. My wife had us start practicing yoga a few years ago and it's made all the difference in the world. What works well for me are the poses that twist and stretch my spine.
While my particular favorite is Bikram Yoga, almost any type of yoga that emphasizes spinal stretching, twisting, and extension will do.
Bikram is a set of 26 poses performed in a hot (100 F) room. The poses and the order in which they are performed doesn't vary. The heat keeps your muscles warm so you can concentrate on your practice.
Most people I've discussed it with have this misconception that yoga is only about stretching, which couldn't be further from the truth. While there's a lot of stretching involved, Bikram yoga is also an aerobic workout; some of the poses will leave your heart racing. And you require a surprising amount of strength to hold your body in some of the poses. If it doesn't build more muscle for you, it will at least tone what you've got. So not only does it help relieve the pain, but it's a pretty complete workout.
Ill keep things natural and suggest cannabis.
--
yush
This past December I had a disc herniation repaired in my back, at the tender age of 22. While my doctors and I aren't actually sure of what caused it, the after affects have been plentiful, mainly being back concious.
:) ... Sitting up straight, elbows near 90 degrees to your body, and feet flat on the floor.
Sitting is quite possibly the worst thing you can do to your back. After surgery, I was unable to sit for 6 weeks. I could only stand or lay down, because sitting ran the risk of reinjury.
Sitting puts outward pressure on your spine, down in your lower back. This can lead to back pain, or pain running down you legs due to nerve root irritation.
Now that I'm getting better, I have several things that I do to ensure that I am comfortable while sitting, and you can all do the same.
First. Getting up every hour can make a huge difference. Stand up for 3-5 minutes. Walk around, and stretch.
Second, if you don't have an obus-forme chair, or variant, invest in a lombar roll. It's about 20 bucks up here in Canada, so maybe $13 USD. A physiotherapist or doctor could point you towards a location that sells them. You place the lombar roll in the small of your back while sitting. This maintains the curvature of your spine, in a healthier manner. Note: these can sometimes take some getting used to, but for me, the difference has been incredible.
Third. Posture! Your mom tormented you for years at the dinner table, and we should all have listened!
Forth. Specialized excercises. Any tricep excercises you perform while standing up straight have the added benefit of strengthening the muscles in your lower back. My physiotherapist has me doing several back excercises on a 3 foot diameter rubber ball. While it's difficult to describe them, the ball adds an element of instability that stimulates and strengthens the muscles in my back. A strong torso has helped me prevent back pain.
I hope these help a bit. The best way to avoid injury and pain in your back is to be very concious about what you put your back through every day.
"There is no knowledge that is not power"
on holisticonline.com
on straightchiro.com
JohnnyB - johnbowman.net
Get all the excersize you can.
You can laugh without eating a sandwhich, but you can do both if bring one.
Legal advice from Slashdot? Folly at best.
Medical advice from Slashdot? Dangerous.
Despite this, I'll dispense some wisdom anyways ... I have a herniated disc and am quite familiar with back pain ... If your experiencing back pain you *MUST GO TO THE DOCTOR.* It could be something serious. Go to the doctor right now, when your back and hes confirmed you don't have a serious condition, continue reading :) So heres what I've learned about backs :
You *MUST* excercise every day [Alot of slashdoters have told you this already but its worth repeating]. Excercise is crucial when you sit for 8 - 12 hours a day. Excercise dosen't have to be at a gym either -- go walk a couple miles per day.
If you have a disc problem *don't lift ANYTHING*. When you feel you can lift again, you must lift correctly (with the legs -- I'm sure you can find a website on proper lifting technique).
Your back is WEAKEST when your spine isn't straight, IE when your leaning. Never lift anything when your leaning, and try not to lean!
Lastly, its difficult to excercise your back muscles but you must do this. Theres two things you must do -- take a cylinder like a pipe or (my favorite) a wooden clothes hanging bar form your closet. Take this bar -- rest it on your shoulders behind your head, and bring your arms up and around it. Use the bar to strech by twisting left and right and up and down and every way inbetween -- its a very gentle excercise and it will help. Second of all, you must excercise your abs! Your abs support your back! Be carefull though -- alot of ab excercises are dangerous for people with back injuries. Just try situps :)
Lastly, PLEASE go to the doctor. Instead of that next GEForce card or effects processor -- or whatever your into, invest in your health. I injured my back when I was 17 with a herniated disk. I resisted going to the doctor but eventually had to when I would wake up most mornings *not being able to walk or stand.* Believe me you don't want that.
Best of luck, OD
Free Techno/Jazz/DNB/MI Music by guys obsessed with monkeys!
like my dad often says (jokingly) "hey its only better living through modern pharmaceuticals!"
I ate my sig.
Dump the chair and desk, sit on a nice level floor as human evolution designed us to kneel and sit.
Keeping the keyboard on the floor and below the waist relieves the wrist strain, too.
Well, it works for me.
Ed Craig "Who cares what you think?" George W. Bush, 4th of July 2001
I have compacted discs and swollen ligaments, particualrly in the L5 area (lumbar region). This had been getting worse for the past 8-10 years. I just lived with it until it got bad enough for me to lose whole nights sleep.
The wrong sort of exercise will only make it worse. In my case the right sort of exercise in conjunction with physiotherapy (traction in particular) is getting it better. If I lift any weight, even my baby son, it makes my back worse. Eventually I'll be able to behave relatively normally but until then I daren't lift anything. The original cause was a couple of injuries that I didn't know enough to get seen to when it would have been easy to fix.
If you have back pain, SEE A DOCTOR, don't take medical advice from /. - that is even dumber than taking legal advice here. Having said that, losing weight won't do most people any harm (unless they're too thin already etc) and swimming and bicycling are normally safe if not doen to excess. Again - SEE A DOCTOR.
----
I hereby inform you that I have NOT been required to provide any decryption keys.
I went to the chiropractor on one of thier 'promotional' visits: free X-ray, exam, and hydromassage. I mentioned my lower back pain and they, of course noticed some mis-alignment.
X-rays should I had some mis-alignment in my neck, which the Doc said was a secondary cause in carpel tunnel syn. He said that most ppl who have the surgery on their wrists for Carpel Tunnel, usually regain symptons again due to the nerve ending in the wrists and arms being connected to the spinal cord in the neck.
Anywho, even after the first treatment, I felt 110% better. Several weeks later, I had hardly ANY pain at all... AND I could prop my feet up w/o them going numb! Woo Hoo!
I HIGHLY suggest going to a chiropractor... esp. if you've got insurance to back you.
Just my 2 scents....
--Chemguru
All kings is mostly rapscallions. -Mark Twain, The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn
Back pain is often caused by weak muscles in the lower back and abdominal area. This leads to a bad posture, so that your back "sags" a bit.
When you are sitting correctly, the lower part of your spine should curve a little bit towards your desk, not a little bit towards the back of your chair. You don't want to end up like a hunchback :) Try this. Sit on the edge of your chair, straighten up and push your chest up towards the ceiling, and pull your shoulders slightly backwards.
Now, you probably found out that this feels a bit awkward, and that it strains your muscles a bit, so that you just die to sag back into your old, comfy, crouched position. This is because the muscles supporting your back are too weak. After a couple of weeks of exercise, this should be your natural, relaxed way of sitting. So, what can you do?
Exercise 1: Lie on the floor, with your stomach and forehead against the floor and your arms straight out in front of you. Lift your left arm and right foot a few inches of the ground, hold for two secs, and put them slooowly down again. Then repeat with your right arm and left foot, etc. Do this exercise about 50 times, give or take a bit depending on your physical shape. This exercise is good for your lower back muscles, and is the most important to maintain a good posture.
Exercise 2: Lie on your back, with your knees in a 90 degree angle. Put your fingertips on the side of your chin, and lift your head some inches off the ground, and roll up until your upper spine is slightly off the ground. Yep, this is the good old sit-up exercise :) Don't go so far up that your lower spine leaves the ground. That doesn't provide any exercise for your abdominal muscles, and may cause further back pain. Repeat 20 times at start, increase to about 100 as you get more fit. The trick is to go up fairly slowly, hold a sec, then lie sloooowly back again. To lie back should take twice the amount of time it takes to go up. Obviously, this exercise helps you to convert your beer-crate shaped stomach into a six-pack shaped stomach :)
Good luck! Remember to stretch cautiously afterwards, and that stretching only helps if you stretch each muscle for more than 20 sec.
I'm lucky to be located near the American Institute of Clinical Massage. The students there have to have clinical hours, so for the past 2 years I've been getting 50 min. massages at the school for $15 each. I've done chiropractics, physical therapy... and honestly the only thing for my forearm, back and neck pain... not too mention the stress headaches... is massage. If you're in the Spokane, WA - Coeur D'Alene, ID area call AICM at 208-457-8909 and tell them Tyler Bye sent you.
I'm not a big fan of the wacky "sit around and chant" style of yoga. Look into "Power Yoga" or "Astanga Yoga," which are a more athletic style favored by runners. The book "Power Yoga" by Beryl Birch is good, though nothing beats taking an actual class.
Exercise, Yoga, Medication are all fine, but consider a different solution. Stand up.
If you are in control of your working environment, especially those who telecommute, consider making a high desk to work from. I use the high desk whenever my back really bothers me (I do exercise and I also have a regular desk). Standing up keeps me alert and eases the pain in my back.I got the idea from a visit to Goethe's home in Frankfurt Germany years ago. Goethe, worked standing at a desk all day long. If he could, why can't you.
machinator omnis sine licentia
I have had serious backpain for more than six yeares. I am only in my mid twenties, and I have been in and out of the hospital for this. I started taking pain killers about six years ago for a pinched nerve/bulged disc after injuring my lower back lifting an HP 4mv (big laser printer). I was only 18, and they didn't want to consider surgery at the time. The doctor said that the pain killers would help with the immediate pain, and physical therapy would help after that.
At first they relieved the pain without a problem. I went to therapy and after a few months things seemed to get much better. I continued my job as a system administrator for a small newspaper. I spent at least 10 hours a day 5 to 7 days a week sitting in a chair hunched over a keyboard. My back seemed ok, but six months later, I was disconnecting a patch cable from a computer that needed to be taken into my office, and what do you know... I threw my back out again.!
I went back to the doctor, and immediately, they gave me another prescription of pain killers. I took these until my back was well enough to go to physical therapy again. This time my doctor warned me that if I didn't really start to get active and take better care of my back, that it could get worse on it's own. I finished out my physical therapy and wen back to work. While I was at work, sitting in my chair, to all hours of the night, my back started hurting me. It would hurt no matter what I was doing. I didn't need to be lifting something to have it bother me. I went to my doctor and he gave me something else for pain. It was a less powerful pain killer. It didn't seem to cut the pain like the previous presccriptions did. I ended up taking more of them to acheive the same level of pain relief. It was really hard to go to work and sit in a chair for nearly 60 hours a week, because my lower back was always hurting.
My doctor ended up cutting me off the pills, so that I wouldn't develop an addiction problem. Unfortunately it was probably too late. That night I was in a lot of pain, and I ended up calling my family doctor (at almost midnight) at his home, to get him to call me in some pain killers. He did so, but told me never to ask him again, without having an appointment. After all, he wasn't treating me for my back problems, my nuerologist was.
I went through those pretty fast, and ended up going back to him for more. He turned me down, and ended up sending me back to a physical therapist. The therapist told me that I needed to take better care of my back, and put me through vigorous therapy, until I built up my muscles in my back enough to go without pain everyday.
Move ahead two years in the story, and throw in a a few more stints with back injuries (some work related, some not) and there I was, back on pain killers. it was a fulltime job to get doctors to keep prescribing them to me. One of my close friends had a similar problem, and he was on them all the time too. We joined efforts, and contributed to each others addiction. Years went by, and before long, we were really, hardcore opiate addicts. I still had the back pain, because I never changed my lifestyle enough to make a difference. I spent 60+ hours a week at work, developing my career at a fortune 500 corporation. I was 23, and I had it all. I was making 50k/year, living in my home town, working as the Data/Voice Network Engineer for said company. I had a reputation for going way beyond what was expected of me when it came to work. I had secured myself into the Executive I.S. Development Program in the corporation. That meant I was in training (at a corporate level) for a position as a Information Systems Director at one of the 200 hundred daily newspapers that my fortune 500 corporation owned.
I was on top of the world... at least I thought. I also had a bad pain killer addiction, that up until now, had not proved to be a real problem in my life. I was able to juggle the doctors, and keep the pills coming in, because I was making real good money, and the cost of living is really low in my city in southern Florida.
Things were about to get much worse, and I was in no way prepared to deal with what was to come. My friend, who also took painkiller, found a source for "opium"... but it was in pouder form. He brought it over, and we played around with it, snorting it. Before I knew it, I liked it a lot. I ended up buying it frequently, to fill in for pain killers when I was low. Little did I know, this was heroin. I ended up getting hooked on it in a relatively short period of time. It was so much like pain killers, but it was better. I couldn't quit. It started interfering with my job, and getting in betweenme and my friends. When I found out what it really was, I was already doing a lot of it, and didn't think anything of it. I was stupid, and blinded. I knew that I needed something for my pain, because my back was serious problem, but heroin was NOT the answer. Six months went by, and I tried to get help. I talked to my alreday suspicious family and boss. I took a sabatical from work, and tried to get treatment. I moved out of my house, and in with my family, who helped me through some really rough times.
I ended up going back to work, but things were not the same. I had really ruined what I spent almost four years building. All the trust, and all the smiles had gone away. Work became a hard thing to deal with. I was still dealing with pain, because I was no longer taking pain killers, or H. I ended up getting an email from some head hunter, looking for a network engineer to be a consultant for a regional hospital chain. I took the offer right away. I wanted a clean start, and they were offering much more money than I was making at the current company.
After a few months of working at the new job, clean and sober, until I met a girl who was going through the same thing I was. She had just quit H, and needed help getting clean. I figured who better to help than someone who has been there. We started dating, and before long we were both back on H. Within a month, I had lost my job, my new apartment, and I was living with her. I continued to use, but found a new job. A few months went by, and we both wanted to get clean. We tried going cold turkey, but it didn't work. After months of attempting to get clean, and many times, almost lodingmy new job, I ended up in a methadone clinic. After a couple weeks, I wasn't using at all. It helped me get clean, and it also helped a lot with pain in my back. Things were getting much better at work, because I was more there, mentally, and I wasn't missing work all the time.
I am still with that employer. It was only two months ago that I got on methadone. I am the network admin for a local ISP. I don't make nearly what I used to. I have really damamaged my friendship with my family and friends. I'm in debt, and I still have back pain. It's no where near the same level if pain that I used to have, but at least I'm not taking pills everyday. I don't want to be on methadone for much longer, but I'm scared.
I am your average, everyday Joe. None of my friends ever would have guessed what I was going through. I hid it from everyone because I was salways in fear of losing my job, or worse, someone finding out what I was really going through. If anyone out there is having a "problem" with pills, after having back problems, please, don't let it get out of control. I regret what I went through everyday of my life. No one should have to go through this. Ever.
Let the flames begin.... I'm going to post this as AC also, because this account is fucked up. Someone at work has been posting with it, because my login was left on my previous computer.
Jaxn
"Being alive is a crock of shit." --Kilgore Trout
Well pain killers are all good and well, but they just relieve the symptoms, and not the actual problem - posture would be the problem in question I imagine. I didn't start training in wushu to stop back pain, but we do a lot of posture related kicks and stretches, and it's improved immensely since then. Good for all-round exercise (cheaper than a gym, and a hell of a lot more fun), tones muscle, builds tendon strength in and around the joints, gets you fit and can be started by pretty much any fitness level.
Maybe there's something in sitting up straight ?
It is completly natural and won't mess up your brain.
~~~Please pass the salt, I hate unsalted MD5s
I use an inversion table called HANGUPS. You just hang from your ankles upside down. It both streches and straightens your spinal column.
I have been using it for about a year and it is great. Also getting a Glucosamine supplement. Completly natural and releives both lower back and wrist pains.
~~~Please pass the salt, I hate unsalted MD5s
Stretching turned out to be a total waste of time. I became fairly flexible. I could even toe-touch palms to the floor as long -- as I didn't pass out from the pain. Ponderously my great intellegence came to another conclusion, after several more years of time, that I wasn't a 16 year old anemic hacker anymore and should stop trying to treat my body like it was.
In the end, the following helped a lot: strength training, a better bed (select comfort), a better diet, and laying off pain killers. A better chair (~$1000) didn't help a whole lot though I was sure it would at the time I got it.
YMMV
First I detached a ligament, because I had been sitting for 16 hours a day and my back was tight. I continued to live my life but since the ligaments were detached, all the pressure was on one side of my disks and two of them ruptured. Then I had those chiselled out and replaced with giant titanium screws. And I am screwed. I am in more pain now than when I had two ruptured discs. As a result, I have had a lot of time and done a ton of research into back pain.
Have hope, 99% of people with back pain will get better no matter what treatment they do or don't do. This is why there are rational people convinced they were cured by everything from homeopathy to psychic healers. The only treatment that statistically reduces the length of time that you will be in back pain is physical therapy, it is a very small statistical improvement. Mild stretching and exercise are good. Everyone knows this. Do it. I would recommend going to a physical therapist and working together to design a stretching/exercise program.
That said, there are things that doctors can do to help. If you are having muscle spasms, a muscle relaxant will help. Ibuprofen can reduce swelling. I would not recommend trying anything more serious until you have tried exercise and stretching for a long time and it has not worked. I would then recommend a pain management program before doing anything but the most minor procedures. Surgery is a last resort. Many people have good results from surgery. What the surgeons don't tell you is that some people end up way worse from surgery, way worse. I did not believe there could be more pain than having two ruptured disks, I have since learned I was wrong. And I did go to the very best surgeons.
Mild stretching/exercise, as recommended by a physical therapist, then pain management, then other things. db
I know oral sex will take your mind off the problem. I works for me :)
At my work we're still looking for a gorgeous blonde to give us a massage every couple of hours...
Are you tall? My doc said tight hamstrings
are a very common cause of LBP in tall people.
My LBP was cured by some simple stretching.
My doc gave me a photocopy of a few simple
stretches, I won't try to describe them here.
There's probably something on the web somewhere.
If Chaos Theory has taught us anything, it's that we must kill all the butterflies.
I doubt Chiropractors claimed to be able to cure deafness, and if so, I would guess it was as foolish as when medical doctors used blood-letting to cure damn near everything a long time ago when medical science was in its infancy.
However, we do offer a class to cure cowadice so you don't have to hide behind your AC posts.
See this site for an unbiased view of the strengths and weaknesses of Chiropractic.
As a BS destroyer, I have to say... http://www.chirobase.org/
As an open-minded person, I have to say... click here for a nonbiased look at chiropractic.
...that I would recommend chiropractic, proper stretching techniques, and massage long before I would recommend drugs. Pain killers and muscle relaxers don't fix the problem, they just mask it. Most people who sit a computer all day have poor posture and much of their pain would be relieved if they corrected their posture.
Here is a bad analogy for you: If the CPU fan in your PC started making a bunch of noise, would you rather put head phones on so you can't hear the noise or would you rather fix the problem before the fan dies and your CPU overheats?
I can't speak as intelligently on the topic as a DC yet so I will offer you a few links to people who can:. html b ack-pain.htm
http://www.chiroweb.com/find/tellmeabout/backpain
http://www.holisticonline.com/Chiropractic/chiro_
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/backpain.html
The last link above may prove to be the most useful as it looks at the problem of back pain not only from holistical view but also from a medicinal view.
Doing squats has been the best thing for me -- I don't use a lot of weight, just 100-150 lbs. But it forces you to hold the right posture. Abdominal exercises (crunches, leg raises) help, too, and so do stretches. But you have to do it regularly, several times a week. For short term relief, ibuprofen is great, but beware: it can give you ulcers, and usually there is NO warning before they appear. You're taking it, feeling fine, and then, all of a sudden, one day it feels like somebody is trying to dig their way out of your stomach with a dull screwdriver.
InstaPundit! Ahead of the Curve Since 30 Minutes Ago
I've been using one of those old-style kneeling chairs, and I haven't had any back pain since then. The "trick" of it is that because your legs are placed at a forward angle you end up having to sit up right in the first place. It's a bit like sitting on the edge of a normal chair all day long, but with your knees supported.
On the other hand it does make my butt sore after a few hours, so getting out there is also pretty essential.
Note that it doesn't get as sore as that guy on that pointless goatse.xce link. Who the h*ll puts up that stupid link on every story? Wouldn't it be a good idea for ./ to block contributions from the subnet that guy must always be using? If they can do it on IRC then surely it can be done here. Just a thought.
My sig is too lon
I bet you will find that 90% of the companies out there will let you buy your own chairs and whatnot so that you don't get a bad back. Its worth it...so go do it.
Add/Remove Software->Unistall Windows 9X/NT/2000
Select "Yes," and then 10 subsequent "Are you really, really sure that you want to uninstall Windows?" dialogue boxes
Presto! No more lower back pain.
Glad to have been of help.
after an 11 hour day at the computer grind ther's nothing better than a skateboarding session, it keeps you in shape so you don't that kind of pain
Not necessarily. In some US states, some codeine preparations are Schedule V. That means they're controlled substances which are legally considered to have medical value and a very low potential for abuse. An adult can legally buy them without a script.
FWIW, those preparations are usually cough medicines.
"I'm on my way to the freedom land..."
I'm not trying to condem you, but you admit you admit in your post that you brought this on yourself. The doctor told you what you needed to do, you needed to make a lifestyle change, you needed to exercise. The pain would have gone away or at least been signifigantly reduced if you had followed this advice. I've never had serious back pain, but both my father and my wife have. Both have found that following the exercise regiment the doctor recommends (And I mean seriously, we're talking about half and hour three day a week here)has totally taken care of the pain. I also know a guy who has degenerativve disk disease who will keep getting worse no matter what he does, but that does not sound like the situation you were in (Who knows, you may be now, enough reinjuries will do that.)
It's horrible what you went through, it's good that you have worked your way out of it. Exercise is not a cure all, it won't make your addiction go away, but it will help with the root cause (your pain), and help you resist your addiction. You might also wish to consider a form of exercise that instill some sort of mental disipline (tai-chi, yoga, Other martial arts). So take the advice for what it's worth from someone who has not been where you are...
I don't need a million points of light, just two points of multi-mode fiber and a 10 Gig-E router.
It got continually worse for over a year. I could only sleep on my right side, with a pillow between my knees. I was in pain whenever I sat down, on a chair, a couch, or whatever.
I finally went to a chiropracter. The first adjustment, and the pain was gone. It took six more visits before it stopped coming back.
But my chiropracter told me the problem would come back, unless I changed what was causing it. I could continue to sit for long periods of time, but I'd have to improve my posture, actually take breaks occasionally, and actually take up some sort of physical activity.
So, no more lower back pain.
IamJaxn, you wouldn't be scamming us, would you? If you are, then both of those were nice touches. If not, then good luck to you in your recovery.
"Rub her feet." -- L.L.
IANAD.
Lower back pain has to be the worst thing I've experienced. Yoga asanas have helped me really understand my body - turns out my body slants down to the right because I daily walk short distances with a backpack (thousands of accumulative k's)).
I'm now concentrating on my posture, aware of which muscles do what, breathe better, and more supple.
You say "Aum", I say "AgnOstic atheisM".
--
mrBlond
CowboyNeal for president!
"Hit any user to continue."
I think it goes without saying, but there's always the other risks too, so if you try this option, protect yourself. (Protection methods are outside the scope of this document.)
It was suggested that if you are having lower back pain, you should lay down and let your partner be in control, taking the strain off your back temporarily, and after it's all over, the hormones and endorphins released are very good for relieving pain. This was also discussed as the most natural way possible to cure a headache, despite the culturalized "Not tonight honey, I have a headache." joke so many of us are familiar with.
Of course, our erotophobic society won't accept this behavior, so (at least in public work places) I'd suggest getting up and stretching, maybe walking around a few minutes (a trip to the watercooler or something might work), or using a naproxin sodium product, such as Alieve. If alieve is unavailable in your area, you could go for an ibuprofen product, but these tend to be less effective, at least in my experience.
Hmm, I didn't buy those, they simply appeared on my because of this work :)
But seriously, exercise is one of the most important and healthy cures. When I went to a doctor with those complaints, he sent me to a fysio therapeut (well, that's the Dutch word at least *grin*) before I could say hurt. This guy started a massage, which I expected to be pleasant. Wrong, it was very painful. But it worked. After a few sessions, the pain disappeared. He also gave me some hints for exercises which I would have to do 3 times a day, only a few minutes. Yup, after a few weeks the pain was gone!
But people are stupid and so was I. The pain disappeared and so did the need for the exercise, I thought. And so the pain returned. So I figured it would be wise to get some sort of structural exercise and to adjust my desk and chair. I now sit straight behind my screen, hands relaxed on the keyboard, wrists straight and both feet flat on the floor. Works great. And the exercise is done by leaving the car at home and cycling to work.
I know, the latter is not an option for a lot of people, but the first sure is. Get yourself a decent desk and chair. If you can type blindly, ask your employer for an ergonomic keyboard so that your wrists can really relax. Sure, those things can cost some money, but employers here are happy to do it for you. Why? Easy: it's a lot cheaper than have employees stay home because of all sorts of pain.
Woefdram, l'apprenti sorcier
There are tons of beginners videos and books on the subject, as well as specific Yoga workouts for various problems like back pain.
Department of Homeland Security: Removing the rights real patriots fought and died for since 2001
Every week I try and get out and play at least 27 holes. I have found this to be the best way to make sure I dont get back pain.
:)
Some weeks I have managed to get 54 holes in and I felt great. It makes sure I exercise my back muscles as well as my legs... hilly courses are even better. And I also found another thing, I sleep way better after playing golf.
And don't complain that you cant get out to play cos you work 9-9... go out and play before you go to work.... 9 holes only takes 2 hours once you start to improve...
And an added bonus you might get invited along to a manager's golf day and still be able to bill it every now and then
--- Can i borrow your Clue-Stick(tm)? I need to go beat a few people with it...
It's been around for a few years. And believe it or not it actually works. It's called excersice. Not only will it help with things like back pain, it also helps with things like fatigue and endurance. And as much as some coders/crakcers/hackers hate it it gets them out of their houses, away from their machine and out to the real world. I'd endorse it. Excersice works. Curing America of the Fat-Asses we are.
AK
-
I wasn?t always free, so I know how it feels to work in an office.
Hopefully, you have a good seat.
But more important, and MUCH MORE EASIER is to change the habit.
You CAN go to the toilet, you can take every phone-call STANDING.
Now that I?m working at home, I still stand up at times to type something on a keyboard, or to think about a problem.
I get my best ideas under the shower, or, when I just stand up and walk a few meters in the room.
It?s really THAT EASY.
And remember, just because it?s easy, doesn?t mean it?s no good....
Later, george./
I work part of the time standing up, and part sitting down. Maybe it's just the exercise of raising and lowering my bulk once in a while that helps. Switching to a notebook made a big positive difference for me also. Having the screen down close to the keyboard makes for a better neck angle.
are the go Codeine's for weenies BTW Physeptone is the what they call methadone when prescribed for pain. Omnapon is a compound of 2 opium alkaloids diamorphine is the generic term for prescription heroin, in those parts of Europe where its still a legal prescribed drug (actually Heroin is the propietry name that Bayer gave it, when they invented it). Also pot is for nausia, not pain. If you don't want to try a narcotic pain killer, there's always Tramal (but some consider it dependence forming too).
I slipped a disk in my lower back some ten years ago. I was still in school and I could'n do much PE for half a year and had to give up taekwondo, but gradually my condition got better without any special therapy, just some mild painkillers. Some years later, I even served in the army with no problems. Had I known better, I would have demanded proper treatment.
In the winter two and a half years ago I started to have back problems again. I was working as a research assistant at my university and I had to sit in front of the computer quite a lot. I took some painkillers and gritted my teeth but did not go to see a doctor. (I should have.) By the summer, my back was so bad that getting up in the morning was painful and sitting for more than 15 minutes was impossible. Finally, I went to see a physiatrist.
The diagnose was a pinned sciatic nerve. The condition was treated with painkillers, muscle relaxants and electric acupuncture. When the symptoms eased off, I went to physiotherapy for the summer and learned some good exercise moves. (Not good old sit-ups, they are plain evil if you have a slipped disk.) At university, I got to buy a good chair. By the end of the summer my back was so much better that I could completely stop taking painkillers and going to physiotherapy.
I've tried to keep my back in shape by doing the exercises and it has worked well. I have no problem walking or sitting and I can even do skydiving and skiing, but running and martial arts are still off limits for me. (Repetitive shock or rotational motion to lower back.)
If there is a moral to this story, it might be this: If you have back problems, do not hesitate to go to see a doctor. Get yourself a good chair and take care that you sit in a good position. And most of all, remember to exercise in the right way (here a pro can help a lot).
--
msm
The aim of science is not to open the door to infinite wisdom, but to set a limit to infinite error.
-Bertolt Brecht
I went to a chiropractor for my
consistent neck/upper back pain.
After about 5 adjustment sessions
and starting a regular exercise program
(he recommended dumbbell presses in
my case), I have been pain-free.
Anonymous posts are filtered.
- You don't need to read Slashdot to figure out that back pain should necessitate a trip to the doctor. Find out if you do have a serious problem like a herniated or bulging disc.
- If you don't have a major problem then it's time to head to the gym. As a kid I used to have all kinds of lower back pain (nothing serious
... whew!). I've been lifting weights and such for a while now and lower back pain has been a thing of the past for years now. Here are a few tips to get you started:
- I prefer crunches over sit-ups. To work your abs all you need to do is get your shoulders closer to your hips
... leave your back on the ground.
- Back hyper-extensions (also called back-ups) are a reverse crunch and can work all kinds of good muscle like the lower back, gluts, and hams. Some gyms have a piece of equipment for this. If not you can use a bench and have someone hold your legs or hook them under it. Just lie on your stomach and let your torso hang over the edge.
- Always warm up, warm down, and stretch out!
- Start out real easy and then work your way into it
... the first two weeks are the hardest but after three weeks you'll think you're a god.
Good luckLegal and all natural drugs are cool: try food and endorphins
I did my lower back about a year ago - it just went, no trauma involved.
I was a fit rockclimber, mountain biker, and studied Aikido.
My abs were _HARD_
The source of the problem was not lack of abs, but shoulders pulled forward by my chest from MB and Rock Climbing... So I am trying now to reset my shoulders back, mainly through swimming to correctmy posture.
Back pain sucks and is only something you'll understand once you've suffered from it.
Nah, seriously, I have one of those ergonomic back chairs (it doesn't work) and I get up and stretch every so often (nor does that). Sometimes I try to massage myself (in leiu of having a harem), but unfortunately, my arms are not as flexible as they used to be, and I find that anything further away than my mouse is hard to reach...
PS Maybe this would be a good Poll?
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.
That's right. I *give* backrubs to relieve my back pain. Because when I give my friend's backrubs, they are happy friends who give me backrubs back. The moral of the story? Learn to give good backrubs. :D
"I don't want the world. I just want your half" ~TMBG
CNN has a story about botulinum toxin being used to treat back pain. Has anyone ever been treated with this stuff? I've heard it being used for people with twitchy eyelids and other spasms, numbing (read: killing) specific nerve endings. The toxin itself is one of the nastiest neurotoxins around, and sometimes pops up in canned foods. Another article.
... . . .
Jeff
...
I had some eyesight troubles and really thought I needed glasses. Soft vision, tired strained eyes, etc. When I went to the doctor however he told me that many of the moisture ducts around my eyelid were plugged. He said that is a result of staring for long periods of time at a monitor. He said I could clean them myself by repeatedly holding a hot wash cloth over my eyes for about 15-20 minutes. Make the water on the wash cloth as hot as you can stand it. He offered to clean them while I was there. ...next time I will pass on that bit of fun. It was quick but not pleasent. Anyway, instant cure. They were better right away. Now, each time I get feeling this way I do the hot wash cloth treatment and it feels much better.
Also try your girlfriend's period pain pills
With that much time spent coding, finding a girlfriend might be an issue.
Whenever that back pain starts kicking in, all I do is lean back on my chair using my really big subwoofer as a foot support... but thats just me...
Unless you've got something like a deformed spine, there is one, and only one permanant solution for back pain: Get out and get some exercise.
Yeah, I know. Most people don't want to. But the truth behind "lower back pain" is that people today might actually exercise their back once or twice a year, and only inadvertently at that. Then, when they do ask anything moderate of the muscles, they hurt. No wonder.
Strengthening your lower back muscles by exercise (carefully, of course), is a wonderful thing. When the muscles are strong and healthy, you have a much lower chance of straining or pulling them.
So how do you do it? There are a lot of ways, but the best is to do straight-legged deadlifts. To do them, put your feet about shoulder width, keep your legs straight, bend over to touch the floor, and straighten back up. When you first start, do it without any weight, and don't do it more than about 10 times. Yes, your back might be a little more sore after doing it, you're asking more of your muscles than you did before. If the pain is more than the kind that says "Hey, I worked those muscles out", then you just might want to see a doctor, something just might be seriously screwed up.
As your muscles feel stronger, start doing it with a little weight. As you feel comfortable, increase the weight. Very soon, you'll be feeling dandy.
steve
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
>>Back pain is associated with weak abdominal
>>muscles. If you strengthen your abdominal
>>muscles, the most common kind of back pain will go away.
Even though that's taught by about a million gym teachers, it's not entirely true. While your abdominals can provide a little additional support for your back in some circumstances, they don't get rid of lower back pain.
Why not? Well, think about it. Your abdominals make you bend forwards. Your lower back muscles make you bend backwards. They pull in opposite directions. When you're trying to pull yourself backwards (like when you're picking things up), your abs simply cannot pull in the right direction to help your lower back muscles.
Now contracting them does "stiffen" your absominal cavity, and provides a little extra support, having strong back muscles in the first place is a necessity.
steve
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
I would suggest a martial art, such as Hapkido. There is nothing like getting thrown on the floor to make your back feel better.
/. advices you to use the preview button ;-)
After getting rolfed, Alexander Technique and/or yoga can be invaluable for tuning and maintaining the better structure. There can also be a place for short-term chiropractic in conjunction with rolfing. Walking is also very good - there's less strain on the back when walking than sitting.
Of course, not all rolfers are equal. But of the 7 I've seen over two decades, only 2 were of questionable skill. So if you start out with someone who doesn't quite suit you, odds are switching to another will see an improvement. The standard is a course of ten sessions, after which most people are in much improved shape - of course you can always screw yourself up again, but rolfing should get you far enough forward that exercise and postural techniques become feasible and rewarding where previously they'd been a pain, and even counterproductive in terms of backlash and aggravation of existing problems.
"with their freedom lost all virtue lose" - Milton
Sex!! No, wait. That causes my back pain. Never mind.
Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
You can get these "back chairs" that you sort of kneel on, with your bum perched on a separate platform.
They seem to work - I don't get chronic back pain my self, but I do have a friend that suffers quite badly. His only options are using his special chair or just lying down.
Whilst on this subject, does anyone else feel that their eyesight has suffered from working with computers. What can you do about it?
Damn
I'll never pass as a yank....
Oh well
Something like 90% of lower back pain is ultimately related to poor abdominal muscle tone. The immediate cause of the pain is most often some "trauma," as it is called--something that causes one of your muscles to strain too hard (for example, poor posture in your office chair). But generally, this trauma happens because the back muscles are not getting the support they need from the abs and are hence being overstrained.
Now, if your muscles hurt real bad right now, this is not the time for exercise, but for rest. There are some good exercises that stretch out your back muscles and help with pain--one of the best is to lie on the floor and put your calves up on a chair or something so that your body makes two 90% angles (hence called the 90-90 position).
Oh, as far as posture goes, learn how to adjust your chair and arrange your workspace for maximum support for your back and take a break every 30 minutes to get up, walk a few paces, and then sit back down. That is very important . . . I believe it stretches out some muscles that get progressively tenser the longer you use them for sitting.
Here is a handy reference chart for determining the type of back strain you have.
Here is a google cache of some exercises for your lower back. There is a lot more out there on the internet--you can get pages and pages of good exercises to do with a few minutes search.
Hope this helps!
Respondeo dicendum quod . . .
I see a naprapath, which is like a chiropractic, but without all the crunching and cracking of joint maniupulation....
This communication is secured using Rot-26 Encryption Algorithm, Unauthorized decryption will be subject to laughter.
I've suffered from varous RSI related injuries, including bad wrists (initially from too much hard-core mountainbiking, then from too much right-hand mouse usage), bad shoulders (again, sports related injury first, then agravated by too much leaning over the keyboard for my studies) and lower back pain (all computer related - bad posture and no screen breaks).
My solutions:
1. Wrist pain - use the mouse in the other hand! It takes a while to learn to use the mouse in the left hand, but now I can use either for work (but only the right for HalfLife) and I get very few problems. I also do arm stretches from my Physio to stretch the arm's nerves.
2. Shoulder pain - lots of physio to fix it, then discussion with physio about how to maintain it - mainly stretches again, with some (light) weight lifting. That's pretty much fixed now.
3. Back pain - talking with doctors/physios and reading books on back pain, so I learned the problems (which muscles are being put out and over worked) and the cures (correctly setup chair, monitor at head height rather than lower down on the desk, regular screen breaks).
I also tried Feldenkrais and Pilates which worked quite well. These exercises are slow and easy on the body, and they tone and stretch the affected muscles making them better able to support your body's weight.
Bottom line - your body isn't designed to sit statically for 8 hours a day with your head leaning down (your head is heavy!) and your right hand hover over the mouse. It is designed to run about and hunt things! So, you've got to find a compromise between sitting and moving about.
For a mere 720$ (retail) a pop the place where I work, bought all the employees Herman-Miller Aeron
c 20 1-pss1-p8,00.html
seating. If you have never tried one of these thing then you are missing out if you have to sit all day at a keyboard. My neck used to kill me at the end of the day, even after 5 years of at the desk. One day in one of these puppoes and I am almost as comfortable when I am in bed.
http://www.hermanmiller.com/CDA/product/0,1469,
Check them out,
R_V_Winkle
At first, you'll think "How is no back support going to help my back?!?" but I promise you will want one of these at home and at work. I first used it for 30 minutes at a time, now I use it all day and my back is very strong and my posture is great. Check it out. Hmm, this sounds like an ad, but I have no affiliation whatsoever. And I have seen them much cheaper than that store.
Please mod me up. My grandma might not make it to the weekend and she always wanted me to hit karma cap.
The BackCycler is a product which is specifically desined to reduce low back pain. It accomplishes this by using CPM - "Continuous Passive Motion" (also known as CSM - "Continuous Spinal Motion"). The device goes on your chair, much like the little lumbar support pillows you can get. It has an air bladder, which is inflated and deflated in timed cycles. This flexes the lumbar vertebrae, changing the position of the spine, which prevents muscle fatigue from being in one position too long, and stimulates better blood flow. There's a flash demo of this here.
If you already have back pain, then you may even be able to get your insurance company to buy one for you (as the web site says, it's "medically proven technology").
Happy sitting.
- The Sigless Wonder
results:
massage: nice, but sort of like kissing a cancer tumor "to make it better".
acupuncturists: total hoakum in my opinion
chiropractors: almost total hoakum. their adjustments did relieve the pain temporarily, but none of them diagnosed the root problem and because they temporarily relieved the pain their adjustments actually put me at greater risk of rupturing a disk. sort of like taking morphine for a broken leg.
orthopedic surgeon: sent me immediately for an MRI, predicted precisely what they would say, was completely correct (scarily so), and had me on a physical therapy program within days.
initially i wore a brace while i healed (i think he was being overly cautious), i was put on a stretching machine to relieve the pressure on my disks. after the pain was gone came flexibility and strength training.
i haven't had a *twinge* of pain since. now i can run 10k without thinking, and more importantly i *know what's wrong with my back* and i know how to protect it against future injury.
what you need to do is keep your abdominal muscles and back muscles in good shape with an exercise program. losing weight and improving your posture also help a lot. the total regime feels something like a cross between calisthenics and yoga and takes about 15 minutes a day. once you're committed to these exercises you can work them into your other exercise easily. it's good motivation to improve everything about your health, not just your back.
what the exercises do is build muscle to support your spine so that there is less pressure on your disks. it was the disks ballooning out and damaging nerves near my spine that caused the intense pain.
western medical science is sometimes so far superior to non-traditional medicine that the difference is breathtaking. i saw that difference first-hand.
i have a hunch that many, if not most, people with severe "lower back pain" actually have a herniated disk or disks. If you don't take care of it, it *will* get worse, eventually resulting in surgery, removal of disks, fusing of vertebrae, and then you'll move like you're 110 for the rest of your life. not something to screw around with.
I am not standing up for either, but I think that you over esitimate the ability of cocaine. For five bucks go buy yourself some ephidrine and get a better and longer buzz. IMHO.
For the record, weed does not make you stupid, only after excessive smoking in long daily periods, can it really do any serious damage. If you take that seriously than you should think twice about coke.
Like I said, I am not yeah or naying either, I just think that was a mass oversight.
If we don't make light of everything, we are just stumbling in the dark - Blank
My pain's in my neck... going through a bout of it right now in fact. Lots of rest, sometimes painkillers and muscle relaxers, and I'll spend a few days in a neck brace to take the strain off. Probably should exercise to strengthen the muscles in my neck, but no one will pay me to do that, and I never have any time to do things unless I'm being paid for it... It's a shame that I can't take care of my own body, but being at peak physical health isn't in the best interests of the collective...
You see? You see? Your stupid minds! Stupid! Stupid!
Adrenochrome.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
I think if people start having back problems working on their computers for long periods, this could mean a big issue of poor posture at the computer terminal.
I would do one simple thing: get the best office chair you can afford, no contest. Sure, the really good ones can be steeply expensive (the Herman Miller chairs start at US$500 and go way, way up from there), but a good chair will have a combination of back cushion and height adjustments. This means you can achieve the right seating height and proper back support, which goes a long way in alleviating back problems (upper and lower back). And a top-flight office chair is still way less expensive than a trip to a doctor or physical therapist to alleviate the pain the first place.
I suffer from a genetical chronical back ache.
It is really inconvenient when I want to sleep.
Some months ago I bought myself some weights (5 kgs each).
Every morning and evening I spend 5 minutes doing some exercises with them.
The pain disappeared on the second day but whenever I stop exercising for more than a week, it comes back.
Follow my advice : you have to be active against this problem which is serious.
--
Trolling using another account since 2005.
whenever i worry about money
my lower back pains me.
This is something
Luise L. Hay
pointed out to me, in one
of her books.
!#
I take between 5-10 minutes in the morning stretching my entire body, including my lower back, and if at work I start to feel my back acting up, I will just stand up and stretch for a minute or two, take a walk, get a drink of water, stretch a little more, and I feel fine.
People of any athletic ability can do this, and if you start stretching more than just your back, you might find yourself in better overall health to begin with.
Specific recommendations:
Chair:
The Zack Back chair, avaliable from www.zackback.com. It is one of the only chairs that offers _NO_ lumbar support, which apparently pushes your spine in exactly the wrong direction.
Keyboard: A split keyboard, so your hands point straight forward, with no radial/ulnar deviation of your wrists, and are spaced as close to shoulder width as possible. I use a GoldTouch keyboard, which has two halves connected by a ball joint. Used as designed, it can tilt and swivel in all sorts of ways that will make my sister rich, but with minor surgery (remove the ball joint), it turns into a nice two-part keyboard with about 6" of slack in the wire that connects the halves.
Position your monitor correctly: When sitting up straight in your chair, with your head not tilted up or down, your eyes should be looking about 2/3 of the way up your screen. The cheapest, and most readily availble adjustment device for your monitor is printer paper. Place reams and partial reams under your monitor base to get it to the right height. Also - 2 monitors may be cool for getting 6 emacs buffers full of code showing at the same time, but it's hell on your neck. Unless you're willing to swivel your entire chair each time you switch your focus from one to the other (rather than swinging your head from side-to-side), get rid of the second monitor, place one where it's centered in your work area, and get used to having the computer switching contexts for you.
Mouse
Get a low-profile track ball (I use a Kensington Orbit), so you can manipulate the cursor with your fingers, and not your whole arm. If you're right-handed, consider switching your mouse to the left side to reduce the workload for your busiest hand. It takes a few days to get used to, but it's worth it. Final disclaimer: Neither me nor my sister have any interest in ZackBack, GoldTouch, or Kensington. Ghengis
Personally, I managed to recover from a bad back caused by weak posture (too much reading/computers) beyond the age of 27 by starting a martial arts course, which focuses a lot on proper stretching and especially coordination.
Not very suitable: Tae-Bo, Karate, Taekwon-Do, Kung-Fu, Win-Tsun - all rely too much on strength and speed. If you're that fit, you ain't no geek.
Suitable: Judo, Aikido, Jiu-Jutsu, Tai-Chi, Taijutsu - anything that focuses more on slow and precise movements (at least initially).
Alternative for those too scared to go fight: Feldenkrais Therapy - look for ressources on the web. Very difficult to describe. Try a session. It rocks (with a good trainer).
After a days hard hunching over the PC, there is nothing like being on the receiving end of a hip- or shoulder-throw to clear your back.
The knots in my spine generally dissappear between the moment my feet first leave the ground and the ensuing impact 0.5 seconds later. The trick is to let your instincts take over again.
Not confused enough? http://translate.google.com/translate?u=www.slashdot.jp&hl=en&ie=UTF8&sl=ja&tl=en
I went to a physical therapist a few years ago for hip and back pain when I was still in high school. His take on it was that I spent so much time, at school and home, sitting and leaning over (doing homework, being on the computer, sitting on the couch, driving, etc) that the gel in between the vertebrae (there are little packets of it that cushion between the bones) was all getting squished to the back and causing lower back pain due to bones having less padding in the front.
His suggestion was to lay on my stomach and try to keep my torso raised, like a push up for just the top half of the body - this squishes the gel back to the front and gives the bones more even padding. I started trying to do this while reading, doing homework, watching TV, etc., and it usually helps alleviate some of the pain. I've also found that - probably related to the gel squishing thing - having better posture and strengthening my lower back muscles so maintaining good posture is easier and more comfortable.
Before I went to the therapist, however, I had a short list of lower back exercises that I knew how to do but was lazy about and probably should have done more. These were mostly stretching the lower back muscles and made my back feel great. I would suggest searching for some back health sites (there have to be some out there..) or going to a chiropractor/physical therapist to find out what you can do to strengthen your back instead of having to make a doctor or medication a regular thing.
Probably the best thing you can do is to exercise your trunk muscles. Back pain is often caused by a person placing too much strain (sitting in a bad position, etc) on their lower back muscles. By developing them, you will tend to adjust your posture and improve their ability to handle abuse.
"But we decide which is right, and which is an illusion"
Yoga worked for me. Wrists too.
And I'm not talking about any of that ergonomic footrests and back placements and keyboards. My workplace is a lazy boy chair, my 19" monitor at 800x600 propped up on a a few boards laid accross two end tables cordless keyboard in the lap, cordless mouse on a book on the armrest of the lazy boy. Great not only for the back, but also prevents unsightly keyboard marks on the face when you fall asleep working on that project for 72 hours straight :)
Also great for gaming... except I still need to find a way to get a steering wheel onto my lap and pedals on the footrest of the chair for driving games.
Spending the time and money to find a good chair is something I can really recommend; though it's practical to have one w/ a lot of adjustment possibilities, the bottom line is whether it has at least one setting you like and that you can imagine spending 8 hours a day, five days a week, 48 weeks a year in.
The other good investment for back/neck problems is a large enough monitor so you don't need to crane your neck as much to do whatever it is you do on-screen.
The desire to take medicine is perhaps the greatest feature which distinguishes man from animals--William Osler
I'd like to believe that when the right woman comes along I'll have the courage to say, "no thanks, I'm married."
Broke my back when I was 19 and have lived with the pain for 26 years now. To me, "learning to live with it" means finding ways to minimize the pain, finding alternitives to the way that I do things that is less painful and finding things that actually help the pain.
My job keeps me at a keyboard for most of the day. My desk is set up so I can sit or stand and type. I alternate between posititons. When I am on the phone and do not need access to the computer I wear a headset with an extenstion cord so I can get up and move around.
When I find I have been sitting too long and I start to tighten up, I twist right and left in my seat, stand up and bend over like I am picking up a pen. Sometimes I go for a walk even if I don't need to go anywhere at the moment. It only takes a minute to get some relief.
Ater a rough day, when I get home I sit on the floor with my legs out straight and my back against the couch or I lay on the floor and push my back into the floor. Either thing helps.
I do not refuse to use pain killers but I find them pretty useless against lower back pain. Those nights where nothing else helps, a shot of scotch and a glass of ice water goes down well and lets me fall asleep. Please note that I rarely drink and do not feel that I am abusing alcohol when I do this, but I guess that it could be seen that way by some. If I did this weekly I'd be concerned but I do this way less than that.
Doctors have pushed useless pills and lame exercises on me. Chiropractors have given me occasional temporary relief but I think that after I've visited them, I get more pain faster. An Osterpath has told me that surgery may help but would more than likely hurt and that he advises against it for now. Someday a surgery may be something to consider but that someday will come only after I have reached a point where I can no longer function well on a daily basis. Of all the doctors I've seen for this condition, his has been the best advice thus far: "If you find things that help do them, avoid things that hurt and do not over exert your back." Uh, yea? Doh! But guess what, the body is like code, the simple things work the best!
But worry not, according to Behind The Music, 9 times out of 10 this crippling addiction starts right before the rock star in question becomes blindingly famous.
So, good luck.
And Happy Memorial Day
I started doing yoga when I was 7 and unaware of the physical benefits, stopped for a long time and went back a few years ago. I've had a lot of different yoga teachers. Some were great and some were clueless.
This is probably true of all forms of excercise, but with yoga, it is VITAL that you learn from a good teacher. Many of the postures in yoga are deceptively powerful (because the work the muscle in both directions simultaneously.) This is particularly true for the postures in a newer style of yoga that they call "power yoga"
If you don't do the postures properly, or with sensible modifications, you WILL hurt yourself. You may not feel anything at the time, but you will pull and possibly damage your muscles in ways you did not realise were possible. Thus, unless you are very aware of your body and your muscles, don't even think about learning yoga from a video.
It's highly unlikely that you will be able to do every posture to its full extent. A good yoga teacher will watch what you're doing and help you modify and correct yourself so that you get benefit without hurting yourself. A good teacher will also carefully explain which parts of the body are at work so that you can gain a better awareness of what you are doing to yourself.
Yoga is very individual -- everyone has different physical abilities, and so most postures and movements must be modified (to increase or decrease the intensity) to match your own needs. A good teacher is aware of this, but there are many bad ones who aren't.
I think yoga is one of the best things you can do for yourself, but I know too many people who say "Yeah, I tried yoga, but the next day I hurt so much I couldn't move." Yoga should not be this painful, and whoever you learn from should help you ensure this.
I can spell. I just can't type.
First thing: GET TO A DOCTOR.
You see, there are several different reasons why you might have back pain. It could be a vertebral subluxation, in which case a chiropractor can do wonders. It could be muscle tension, in which case a massage is great. It could be something that can be fixed with a better chair, or by standing up while you work. (I do that.) On the other hand, it could also be a disc problem, requiring physical therapy or even (as a last resort, mind you) surgery.
The first thing to do for whatever back pain you may have is to see a doctor, get an MRI and find out which kind it is. Once you know that, then the rest follows from there...
Disclaimer: I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV. Most of what I know about back pain I learned as a patient... (I've done most of the aforementioned at one time or another, excluding the surgery part.)
Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?
Where is the wisdom we have lost in knowledge?
Where is the knowledge we have lost in information?
Use a RECLINER. I sit in front of my computer 10 hours a day every day for the past 5 years and I have never had any pain.
- A Frog in a pond utters an azure cry. -
Well, I thought, but now I'm sure that I was not the only one who has this sort of pain. It was quite annoying (and, of course painful) from time to time. So, I reckoned something must be done.
;-). Therefore, I thought in order to get rid of the thing, I must move. Practically, some sort of excercise is needed.
Pain comes from the opposite of moving
Completely wrong would be to go out to a gym after work. That will work just fine to further destroy your back. I got advice from a friend who's a doctor to go to a swimming pool three times a week and swim.
After just few weeks, I felt quite reliefed of the pain in the back.
No drugs, no doctors, just plain-old swimming.
Marko.
(And my aunt always used to try to stop me. I wonder if that was because she wanted me to have back problems..)
Posture. Yes, your mother was right. So was your teacher. Sit up straight.
I'm a programmer and was still in my 20's when serious back pain started to assault me. I'm not into any drugs and am so weird about that that I don't even like taking aspirin. Anyhow, I forced myself to stop slouching and bang! my back stopped hurting within a week.
PS -- Letting your wrists droop below the elevation of your fingertips while typing will cause carpel tunnel pain. Stop drooping and it will go away if you have not already caused permanent damage.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~ the real world is much simpler ~~
--- -- - -
Give me LIBERTY, or give me a check.
Curiously, G.I. Jane gives a treatment for back problems over at Maxim Online. Plus there's a reward at the end...
Sex and lots of it
as it says, man, nothing beats the drugs :)
Sit-ups! Strengthening the abdominal muscles reduces the strain on the back and improves your posture. "It's your body use it or lose it" I know that sounds cliché but the saying is true.
The one book that really helped my develop a good posture while computing was "Compute in Comfort : A 5-Minute-A-Day Guide to Pain-Free Computing Using Body Awareness Training" by Paul Linden. This book focusses on good posture by increasing your awareness of your body. This really helps because instead of raising your monitor because book this and article that say that it should be at this height, you will find yourself raising your monitor because you feel that it is better for your neck and back. Funny thing is, although this book is directed at computing, it also did wonders for improving the way I walk and stand still.
I intend to live forever, so far so good.
Beware of Fraud.
If you go to a chiropractor or other body work practitioner, beware of fraud.
In my experience, they say things designed to make you think they are doing something positive, while they are actually acting to make the problem continue, giving only temporary relief, because that is the way they make money.
In my experience, ALL of them have said things that are not founded in what they have reason to think is true. They say things designed to give themselves control over you, that they have found a patient is likely to accept.
The profession does not seem to attract logically-minded people.
Yoga is excellent, but stay away from the unfounded statements surrounding yoga.
See my comment number seventy-six above.
Bush's education improvements were
The common kind of back pain is not directly related to "hunching over a keyboard and coding away". It is caused by pushing yourself too much, and being disconnected from other parts of your life.
Back pain is associated with weak abdominal muscles. If you strengthen your abdominal muscles, the most common kind of back pain will go away.
Bush's education improvements were
If it were mountain-bike related, I'd tell you to move to a full suspension rig...fixed my lower back problems :)
I used to be a martyr to lower back pain until pointed to a simple remedy: stretching! You will not believe the difference it makes.
There are many books that describe simple but effective stretches that can make a huge difference to your everyday well-being. Spending 10 minutes every morning and 10 every evening on some Yoga exercises is even better.
Also, don't forget the importance of good sleeping posture. Do not lie on your back with your hands stretched out over your head, or even folded above your head. When you sleep, your hands should be relaxed and positioned over your chest. Ideally, you should have a pillow underneath your knees. Alternately, try sleeping on your side with a pillow between your legs.
Magnus.Sit-ups do wonders for me, in addition to keeping good posture. Posture is hard to maintain with weak abdominals. Strong ones mean less work for the back when it comes to stabilizing the torso.
"I like to wear big boy pants."
generally thats because they attempted suicide,and they deserve it.
2 tylenol before working out helps alot if taken about an hour before.
I take 3 though, I am 6'3" and 200lbs, those doses are the minimum
I am 6'3" and 200lbs, and only 15.
My school has the most uncomfortable desks in the world. they were meant to cause pain. then, I have to go to assemblys about once a week, and sit for hours on a hard crappy bleacher, it is hell.
My back used to hurt all the time, but I started working out, and, only using 1 pillow when i sleep, I used to use 3, and my pain went away.
But thank god school is almost out.
Well, both my parents have back/neck pain, so here is what they do...
1. Do not visit a chiropractor, there just idiots.
2. If it does get bad, go to a massuse
3. go to a doctor, there are exercises they can give you to do that will help.
4. Pain relievers just mask the pain, it will hurt twice as bad a year from now if you do nothing about it.
5. Get a good chair with lumbar suppport, and, when it hurts really bad, sleep on a hard surface, like the floor, so everything is aligned right.
6. Don;t do anything stupid, my mom made her back hurt twice as bad by getting whipped around on a water ski, and it still hurts like hell, and that was 3 years ago.
7. Tylonel, and lots of it,
And, be sure to get up and stretch durting those long coding sessions.
These exercises worked for me, too. I had backpain for over a month. A few days of practising the exercises, and the pain was gone. Since following McKenzies advice how to avoid backpain, I haven't had any problems. I used the book by McKenzie "Seven steps to a pain-free life".
use Bielefeld.pm
Go to a physical therapist. Really helped me. I did intense physical therapy which involved neat stuff like massage (very nice, I might add), intense infared on my back, and more
Swim. If you live near the sea, go there every day. Swiming for 30 minutes a day will make your back feel a whole lot better. If you don't live near the sea, go to the nearest pool
Excercise. But not just any excersices (you can damage yourself more if you do the wrong ones): Learn from your physical therapist which excersices you are permitted to do. I had to do a particular set of excercises every two hours (yes every 2 hours). But they really helped.
Learn to live with it. Unfortunately, short of surgery, you must learn to live with it. You'll learn that you shouldn't say bend your back over but you should bend your knees instead and stuff like that.
However, all the stuff I mentioned above, allow me to have a normal life, with little back/leg pain.
Smoke a joint, drink a beer.. "Lower Back Pain" is kind off topic for slashdot..
I started going to a holistic physical therapist 2 or 3 years ago, and I have never regretted it. She is okay with most popular insurance packages,
and is walking distance from Caltrain (California Avenue stop). Her URL is http://www.nopain.com .
I'd had a terrible pain under my right shoulder blade for years that was non-existant after a couple of treatments and seteady regimen of exercises she assigned me. Once things got better, I only see her once a month or so when I sleep wrong and my shoulder/neck is stiff.
True. It is also good for wrist pain & neck/eye strain. Yoga emphasizes that there is a counter posture for every posture your body can get into--whether it be hunching over a keyboard or swinging a golf club. When you practice yoga, you will slowly strengthen your abs and spine. You will learn how to breathe properly, something we all "forget" on the path to adulthood. Proper breathing can cure or prevent asthma, chronic bronchitis, and colds. You will also feel a subtle but positive increase in your level of physical energy.
I find it ironic that insurance companies in the U.S. won't pay for my yoga classes, but they are more than happy to pay for addictive drugs with unsavory side effects (a/k/a prescriptions).
Ewige Blumenkraft!
Ewige Blumenkraft!
Get a Herman-Miller Aeron, the chair of choice for countless now-defunct dotcoms. You should be able to find one reasonably priced on E-Bay. I can work 16 hour days in mine without wanting to die. Also, a good footrest will help a lot.
You should also try getting out more. Find a hot geekgrrl that gives good back rubs.
Easter,
I'm not going to go into this too long- Slashdot is so damn slow right now, it took almost a minute just to get the reply box up, and i'm not feeling very damn patient right now. (And having a bad day, to boot. Sorry to sound if I'm taking it out on you)
Your original message sounded like rather than being at all encouraging, as if it's saying "Oh, you're just another drug using idiot, don't give us your excuses, you brought it on yourself."
Think before you post. It should be mandatory.
All your base are belong to XO
http://mi-net.dynup.net/
http://blackmagik.dynup.net/
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
First:
Drugs are bad... mmmkay?
Second:
I fix my computer fans making lots of noise by whacking the case real hard somewhere near the source of the noise. Always has helped, have only had one fan die in about 14 years of fan-cooled computing.
All your base are belong to XO
http://mi-net.dynup.net/
http://blackmagik.dynup.net/
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
Since nobody has mentioned this yet . . .
John Sarno is a doctor who spent a lot of time studying back pain. He contends that most people with severe back pain have induced this pain psychologically as a subconscious ploy to distract from things that are upsetting them, and the most effective way to treat the pain is to address the psychological causes rather than attempting physical treatment.
This probably sounds far-fetched. It did to me when I first heard of it. But I used his methods to almost completely cure my "tendonitis" in my arms. I've been nearly pain free for a year now (with a couple of minor relapses).
You can probably find his first book, Mind Over Back Pain, at the public library. If you spend half an hour reading it you will know whether or not you want to pursue his suggestions further. When I read it, I found myself being described over and over, started thinking about my pain in a different way, and noticed all kinds of clues that my pain was mostly an expression of high stress.
Chronic pain is no fun. My experience with doctors for my tendonitis suggests the medical community doesn't really understand it very well. Hang in there, try different things. Don't give up. Good luck.
Matt
Non biased? Riiight... After a good overview, it seems that this site (while rehashing the same old Chiro-dogma that has been
refuted so many times) is nothing but a blatant advertisement for Chiropractic treatment. Just look at this:
Q: When should a child have their first chiropractic visit?
A: The earlier the better. Remember...
Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) has
been linked in part (according to several
European studies) to subluxations of the
Atlas/axis (the first two cervical vertebrae.)
Q: Who needs chiropractic care?
A: Everyone can benefit from modern, safe, effective, and painless chiropractic care.
Unbiased my ass. It's little more than scare tactics and hucksterism. CLASSIC quackery.
Look, scientific research doesn't support chiropractic treatment for anything other than sore back muscles (and it's a hell of a lot
more expensive than massage). Chiropractors used to take x-ray films of spines to satisfy insurance companies, but now they admit
that the very basis of chiropractic, the "subluxations", can't be detected with conventional imaging. In fact, their existence has never
even been proven. Why? because they don't exist! Quackery! Try www.quackwatch.com for the scientific evidence that proves and disproves modern methods of medicine.
"Cheeze it!" - Bender
Just my own practices here:
CrazyLegs
"Pork!!" said the Fish, and we all laughed.
nuthin works better than marijane :) and some t3's for the bad spots
I have a lot of back pain because of an accident I had. For this reason I sit in a good chair at my desk and have a wireless keyboard and mouse. Often, the position of your keyboard is dominating the way you sit, while it should be the other way around. After a long time of sitting behind the computer, I relax in a good sitting chair with a book and a drink, because if I go right from the computer to bed I wake up with back pain. And ofcourse, you also get used to it.
-- Please put this in your sig if you think
and other natural pain killers are great. I'm not recommending this ahead of going to a doctor, but for most of us who suffer from chronic pain and even those who have gone to a doctor in addition to the exercises. I've been to the doctor and been given the exercises and many prescriptions for pain killers. The exercises help some and the pain killers do more damage than they do good. Don't use them unless you need to and ONLY for a short time. I take a coral calcium that comes looking like sand in a small sachet.
This type of thing helps in chronic arthritis pain as well as your normal daily aches and pains. This is also HELPFUL to your body! Most pain killers are bad for you in one way or another. We Americans don't get enough calcium (as well as many other good nutrients) in our diets anyway, so this helps out on that front in addition to reducing the pain.
I know quite a few people who take prescription calcium or calcium injections for their pain, but this stuff is just dropped into your jug of water and you drink it up. Don't even know you are actually doing something good for you! I whole-heartedly recommend it. If you want more info, click on URL above and email link on bottom of page.
My name fits again.
I have yet to suffer from lower back pain. The #1 reason for that is that I get regular chiropractic treatment from a doctor I know and trust.
Some people here have panned chiropractic, but chiropractic practitioners are just like normal doctors. There are good ones and there are bad ones. You're just as likely to get a prescription that could kill you from a normal doctor, as an adjustment that could kill you from a chiropractic quack. Ask around, find out who your friends trust.
Of course, another reason I'm so healthy is that I get up and stretch and walk around every so often. I also put the keyboard in my lap, which some people here have said may help.
To give your back a break, go to one of the big fancy movie theatres with the fancy chairs and watch a good movie like Shrek. It'll rest your back, and take your mind off your work, which is also good for you. And the movie rocks too (:
SIG: 11
W00t! I got a really good chair as soon as my back started hurting. Typing with keyboard in lap and optical mouse on leg helps immensely.
A regular weight lifting program will keep your back muscles strong, prevent carpel tunnel and get you laid.
your back hurts because you are letting you spine drop. Look at the way you are sitting right now. Are you bent over or all folded up? Sit up straight like your mama used to tell you. Mother always knew best. Also, lift your head and your sholders will stop hurting so much.
.... getting a life outside of coding obviously helps. A weekly clubnight/rave is my preferred remedy, I cannot recommend drum'n'bass or reggae enough, the bass will set your spine right again. Bass is maternal, so they say...
A World in a Grain of Sand / Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Infinity in the Palm of your Hand / And Eternity in an Hour.
I'd second parent post's statement that the time you mentioned is too early for them to be on E, left alone the possibility that their raves regularly get busted by the police around 1am...
E and raves in general? Historically, yes, sure, but you don't really need chemicals when a fat bassline moves you. You'll need that stuff, though, if you want to dance to boring stupid music like trance or goa all night long, but who on earth would volunteer for something like that?
A World in a Grain of Sand / Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Infinity in the Palm of your Hand / And Eternity in an Hour.
Orthopedist info
I got a bulging disc (L5S1, the lowest one) when I tried to do reverse crunches at the gym after apparent years of poor lower back posture (as my physical therapist explained it). Four things helped over the past few months:
1) Sitting up properly. The proper way is to jut your stomach and the base of your butt out in opposite directions, then back off a bit. This will put your hip bone more in line with your spine.
2) Months of physical therapy which included two things in particular that helped- yogic press-ups and bridges. In a press-up, get on the floor like you are about to do a push-up; but keep your hips on the floor while pushing up fully with your arms until you feel something. It may help to exhale when you're at the top. In a bridge, you get in the classic sit-up position on the floor, feet close together, but instead of sitting up, you push your hips to the sky. Line up your thighs with your back (in mid-air) and then stretch one leg out... if this is working, your hip on that side will droop which means you have some lower-back weakness. Do each side, then lower, repeat about 10 times. You want to get it so that your hips stay rock-solid when you lift a leg.
3) Walking, light exercise (elliptical etc.), and when I was able to take it, ultimate frisbee =) I am no fan of sports but Ultimate is pretty fun and a hell of a workout, as well as a nice way to meet people.
4) A new Aeron office chair for myself =) Kickass investment.
Skating of various sorts is great exercise for the lower back. I rollerblade and play ice hockey, and I don't seem to have any problems with sitting in front of the computer for about 10-14 hours a day.
I heartily recommend yoga (the kind where you stretch alot and stand on your head and stuff, not the pansy meditation and breathing stuff) for this
kind of problem. In addition to stretches and strength building it teaches body awareness which helps you keep good posture. I've also heard of
studies (sorry no references) that say that it can help people avoid problems with carpal tunnel syndrome; it certainly helps me. I go to one 1.5 hour class a week (Iyengar style) and it makes me
feel a whole lot better.
Not all of us nerds get out enough to find any suitable women, so we can't relieve our back pain with sex. Heres something else: There is a health company that ships products all over the world, called Usana. Recently they patented a new formula for one of their products, and named it Procosamine II. It contains Glucosamine sulfate, rather than the Glucosamine hydrochloride. Studies prove that glucosamine sulfate is more effective and potent. Most Glucosamine supplements use the cheaper hydrochloride version to make their products. You can find more details about the Procosamine II Here. It seems that with simple stretching and/or mild excercise, along with procosamine II, will prevent and help everything from a sore back, to arthritis. Something worth looking in to. For those of you who dont know what I'm talking about, I recall seeing a post about glucosamine from kwelstr, but noticed that he did not go into any detail about it. Glucosamine helps your bones repair cartalige damage and keep you joints well lubricated for pain-free use. More details and scientific evidence that supports the theory can be found at Usana's web site.
"There are only two things that are endless: the universe, and human stupidity; and I'm not so sure about the former." -
The method is named after Dr. Moshe Feldenkrais (1904-1984), who was a physicist, engineer and judo expert. He developed this technique in the process of rehabilitating himself from a pair of badly injured knees (torn up by years of playing soccer).
This method has worked very well for me. I've worked for the last 2 years as a programmer and have had no problems with a sore back or carpal tunnel/rsi, even though my hands and arms used to be constantly irritated (keep reading).
When I was in graduate school (getting my Master's deg. in music performance (I play percussion & marimba, btw :) ) I was having numbness and chronic inflammation in my hands and forearms. Chiropractic wasn't doing much. I didn't want to take a lot of NSAIDs. I was having to ice my forearms down every night before practicing. It was around this time I found this work. Once I started doing lessons regularly my problems cleared up. My musicality and technique improved greatly, as well, since my hands and my posture were fighting themselves (and each other) less and less.
I've since then undergone the 160 days (spread over 3.5 years) of training needed to become a Guild-Certified practitioner.
The method can be taught to groups (known as Awareness Through Movement(tm) or ATM) or individually (known as Functional Integration(tm) or FI).
There's a directory here of practitioners in the U.S., Canada, and a number of non-North American countries.
Interesting links:
So this is what everyone has said already, but I concur: Surfing and/or Yoga. Exercise your back/stomach and you'll be golden. Get up out of that chair and give me 30 crunches now!
Well, the structure of words (and in fact of characters) is significantly different than the 'western'. Unless you speak Korean, you are not an expert (and since I do not speak it, I am not). Some people type it tae-kwon-do, some use tae kwon do, and honestly, I have not seen it typed taekwondo. They are separate words, combined to create one phrase/word. I do not believe that the Korean language differentiates between combined words and phrases. And, like many oriental languages, the translation into western characters, in and of itself, looses sounds (since oriental languages and western languages incorporate different sound 'sets' that overlap, but are each missing some sounds that are present in the other). Anyway, I digress ... in many languages the ability to create a new word by combining words is present. In the western alphabet, sometimes they use spaces (and it is called a phrase), sometimes they use hyphens, and sometimes they put the two words together. But, as Korean does not use the western alphabet, (and I was always under the impression that Korean uses separate noun charachters, although I could be mistaken on this point) it is not set in stone.
I am 27 years old, and I attended a school in my youth through early teens, and a self defense class twice a week in college, and am currently involved in a local do-jo. I have to warm up a half of an hour to an hour before class so that I do not pull anything. I have a bad back, knees, and ankles. I am very aware of my bodys limits, and when I excercise regulary (with proper warm ups) it strengthens these areas, and I am not bothered by them anymore.
As for martial arts, there are:
1)better/worse martial arts and beter/worse schools
Tae kwon do is a very high impact art/sport, and is often treated less as an art (where they are more careful of your well being) and more as a sport by some schools. I have also taken karate, and a little bit of judo and tae-chi in self defense classes, which tend to have better care of the body (and it varies by school and by do-jo as well).
and
2)better do-jo's and instructors
I have been to do-jo's where there is adequate warm ups and adequate care and attention given to avoiding injury. And I have observed some that do not. And I have also seen some do-jo's where the instructor seems to be an x boxer that decided that owning a do-jo would be cool. (If he is typical of boxers, I know why there is a large quantity of training injuries in boxing)
I took a few months of looking around before i chose the do-jo that I belong to now, and even that is not as good as I like. All of these things were taken into consideration in addition to the quality and breadth of the teaching (physical and mental). I would advise that anyone looking into a martial art look around at several do-jo's if they plan to stick with it, so that they get the one best suited to them.
If the class has a healthy style and format, I would say that you should be aware of your limits, if you need to warm up an hour before class in order to avoid injury, then that is your limit. If you need to take a break in the middle of class, and stretch out, so be it. Not all challenges are physical, you may need to find courage to tell your teacher that you need to alternate exercises to help your back, or to not push yourself so hard that you hurt yourself.
-CrackElf
"Blake is an idealist, Jenna. He cannot afford to think." - Kerr Avon, Star One, Blakes 7
I have a good chair at work which i have tweaked every which way until it suits me. At home I do not notice the pain. I do not know if that is because I have the whole thing suited to me, or if it is because I am too engrossed in what I am doing to care. As for pain when I am not in front of the computer, I have noticed that when I am physically active, my back pain is significantly reduced. I take tae-kwon-do several times a week, and, as it is interesting to me, I stick with it. My recommendation is to find a physical activity that you like and go to it, do your thing, get in shape.
-CrackElf
"Blake is an idealist, Jenna. He cannot afford to think." - Kerr Avon, Star One, Blakes 7
I came up with a strange solution to lower back pain. I learned to flex my lower back muscles(not my butt muscles; the ones above the butt). In about a week I was able to pop my lower back using only those muscles. That is a pretty handy skill, as it releaves the pain rapidly without pain killers etc. I havent heard of anyone else that can do this;am I that wierd or have any of you guys also developed this ability. Like I said, it sounds wierd but it sure helps!
"Never, never suspect the dreams within the dreams of dreaming children." ~The Amazon Quartet
I never had much in the way of back pain until I was in a car accident which put me into physical therapy for four months...So, I've got a few tips...I'm not a doctor or physical therapist or anything, so don't try to sue me if you take my advice and hurt yourself, yadda yadda yadda. I know this concept might be frightening, but do situps. The back has to do quite a bit of work to keep you upright, but if you have nice strong abdominal muscles, they do a bit of work (some of the abdominal muscles stretch back to your spine) and make your back do less work, therefore less pain. When you do the situps, concentrate on keeping your tummy and butt muscles real tight. You DON'T have to go all the way up (contrary to white evil highschool PE teachers told you!), you just have to get your shoulder blades off the floor. Also, if you can, try to hold the up position for a few seconds. If you can't, don't ;) Two sets of 20 situps a day is a good figure to shoot for, but if you can only do five a day, do five a day. It's better than nothing.
Another thing that'll help...lay on your back on the ground, with your knees bent so that you're comfortable. First try and suck in your tummy and butt muscles, then lift your ass into the air. Hold for five seconds. Do a few of those and you'll start to feel it, but it really does strengthen your back and stomach muscles really well. Don't overdo these at first, though, stop after five or so, you WILL feel them tomorrow.
And, lastly...This one is mostly for when your hsoulders and upper back hurt. You know those funny styrofoam swim "noodles" that little kids use? Buy one of those. You want one of the straight ones, not one of the curved ones. Put it on the ground, lay down on it so that it runs the length of your spine, from your pelvis to your head. Have your knees bent, and your arms out to your side. Stay that way for 2-5 minutes. It WILL be uncomfortable the first few times, but what it does is it pretty much forces the shoulder and upper back muscles to relax. As soon as you get off it, your upper back will feel better. You can work your way up to making snow angel motions with your arms, but that will also be painful at first, so only go to the point of pain, don't force yourself to do that which is painful.
Hope that helps.
-Jenn
man, im not alone?!? the pain started for the second time in my life yesterday morning. I'm going to do what I did last time, wait untill its over =))
--- No, english is not my mother tongue.
Well, the desk I have is way too high off the ground, so it kinda makes you sit up. Plus, keeping at a nice 30 - 35 degree angle with your feet on the desk helps...
Try Yoga - you'd be surprised at how effective it is.
A great low impact (assuming you don't fall) excercise that is great for the back. It works out all the kinks and clears the head too.
Just make sure you have mechanical back pain and not ankylosing spondylitis. One easy way to tell is if you wake up in the middle of the night with excruiciating lower back pain, it may be AS.
My back didn't hurt so far from computer works, but sometimes my eyes or my wrist hurt. My tip to avoid wrist pain is to switch the hand you hold your mouse in regularly, say left hand for a week then right hand for a week. It sounds harder than it is, I am a 100% right handed man but I got used to using the mouse with the left hand really quick.
Besides, I'm in the early 20s, so my back pain might come some day.
--
What follows is the best advice you will get on pain management: 1)Food allergy: avoid the nightshade family of vegetables, the peppers, potatoes, tomatoes, paprika, chili, cayenne, red pepper, curry. Do this for at least 6 months. This is harder to do than it sounds as these are common ingredients in most prepared foods. You can find this advice in most books on pain management in your local library. 2)Pain can be an essential fatty acid deficiency. This can be verified with tests but it is easy to supplement. The two major types are omega 6 and omega 3. Use flax and fish oil to correct. Typical symptom here besides pain is poor skin condition. 3)Magnesium deficiency. Should be checked with a rbc mineral assay by physician. Don't want to test? Supplement with 200-400 mg, 1-3x per day. The best is magnesium chloride %18 solution. 4)Pain medicine. Thats right, common pain medications cause pain by damaging the digestive tract which causes anitbody complexes to get into the bloodstream which the body then attacks with glee, but also attack the body, particularly the joins so you get pain. 5)Repair damaged digestive tract(see #4). Take glutamine, whole whey, probiotics(cultured yougurt). Can be caused by a buch of things so don't think it doesn't apply to you. 6)Multiple nutritional deficiencies, crappy diet, blah, blah, blah. 7)Heavy metal poisoning from suspect dental practices ie. mercury amalgam fillings and arsenical compounds used as antibiotics. Don't believe it? You'd better buddy boy. 8)Food and inhalant allergy. See an allergist that uses serial endpoint titration. They are not all that common. 9)Exposure to pesticides and other chemicals. Blah, blah, blah...heard it all before... the sky is falling, the sky is falling! Its just that when you look up at the sky, your back goes out. I've seen programmer guys I've worked with, smart people, end up almost dead in the hospital because they had no clue on how to deal with painful symptoms when they occured. Seems that the total geek braintrust for dealing with pain is to take two Tylenols and hope for the best. For those interested you should go to http://www.prestigepublishing.com/soft7.htm and order everybook in sight and learn something. You should also go to www.prwatch.com and see what is really going on with health related issues...as reported on CSPAN2. The sad thing is it takes getting really sick for most Americans to find out how really crappy our medical system is. Don't let that happen to you. Forewarned is forearmed.
...and emissons from natural gas pipelines can cause wicked back pain.
They're called laptops for a reason. Get a comfortable armchair, a footrest, and put your laptop on your lap. Forget about the box on a desk.
Does that mean they can cure the common cold? Not that I've seen. It's best to get a recommendation for a competent one from someone who's actually benefited from their attentions. You may also want to look for an osteopath, rather than a chiropractor, if you want someone with greater training in other aspects of medicine.
(On a related note, I was able to get done with a really nasty flu faster than expected with the aid of a combination of acupuncture, massage, and herbs from the acupuncturist my family sees-- Dr. Xiao Ping Wang of Cupertino. He only does business through recommendations, and was able to clear up my mother's carpal tunnel syndrome in about 6 sessions. He uses a combination of massage, acupuncture, herbal packs, and herbal medicines, so the acupuncture might be nothing more than a placebo effect on top of other things, but we have gotten good results from "alternative medicine". Again, good recommendations are important.)
"Before enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice. After enlightenment: sharpen claws, catch mice."
And I'm apologizing for the direct piece of recommendation. It'd be spam if it wasn't on topic. I'm not a physician.
But most GP's will tell you to start exercising (good) and strenghten you abs (bad...it's the muscles on the other side that are weak!).
Most orthopaedics will give you drugs....or cut you...because that's what they do generally.
I started up and ran a PT facility specializing in spinal rehabilitation in the early 90s.
80-90% of lower back problems are due to soft tissue problems, ie., weakness in the lower back muscles.
They're weak because they're unused. Not in a "general" exercise sort of a way. In a specific exercise sort of way.
Every piece of generic weight training equipment you use is based originally on Nautilus (The weight stack idea came from Universal.) The key inventor/owner of Nautilus was Arthur Jones.
He sold off the company in the late 80s to start MedX (medical Exercise) realizing his Lower Back machine worked the hips AND the lower back...meaning the more powerful hips powered the back through the motion.
When he got it right he did some exercise studies with a number of PhDs and MD (including a past president of the American College of Orthopaedics, who even stopped performing back surgery due to this equipment.)
The reason it works...is that it isolates the back...preventing the use of the legs and hips in spinal extention.
A flaw in the Nautilus lower back machine (which everyone else copies.)
When directly exercised, the lumbar extensors made impossible increases in strength. Impossible, unless they were atrophied to begin with. These exercise brought the muscles back to "normal' strength levels, and tehn hypertrophied them (the way long term strength training can.)
Personally, I saw something on the order of 1500 patients, of which 85% saw unreal improvements.
So, yes, general exercise helps, but has not been shown directly to help these muscles.
http://www.medinc.com
Give yourself a break! If you're sure it's the coding and it's hurting you, then you're doing too much.
:) It's your duty to yourself as a geek :)
Respectfully, get a life
--
I have found medical doctors are NOT very effective in treating back pain. They instantly diagnose disk damage, even without so much as an x-ray. Unfortunately, since doctors are not effective, an entire industry of quacks has sprung up to fill the void.
Sarno is somewhat contraversial, but at $10 his book is a good place to start. It helped me a great deal.
If your lower-back pain happens while you're working, you need to improve your ergonomic environment. The only real way to do this is to get a consultant in to look at how you are sitting, using the keyboard/mouse etc. If you are employed, your employer may well pay for this. It can be very surprising how much improvement they can make to your comfort by a few simple improvements.
... but not sufficient on their own if you are sitting incorrectly for 8 hours a day.
Exercise and keeping your body to a reasonable weight are also good ideas
Remember the back-ache isn't the real problem, but just a signal your body is sending you that you're doing something very wrong. ;-))
...
Pain is a really strong signal, and it's seldom the first one your body sends (except when you're in acute danger). Most chronic pain kinda problems begin with mild comfort, that gets ignored because 'well, I really wanna do this' or 'hey, it's my living' or another such reason. This eventually causes the problem to come to such a point that it can't be ignored anymore, and it'll force you to stop what you're doing wrong.
Anyhow, familiarize yourself with your body, take it seriously (it got to last you a long time) and find new ways of using it (heh, yes, in all ways possible
I do tai chi, which has equipped me with a kind of toolkit of exercises to solve nearly all discomforts, but there're plenty of alternative to that which'll do the same for you.
Just remember the pain is your body asking your attention.
---
Living is a way of life
---
"The chances of a demonic possession spreading are remote -- relax."
Going for a 30-minute swim every other day generally keeps both lower back pain and that horrible pain between the shoulder blades at bay for me.
This is fairly typical. Rather than do something about the root cause of your pain (in all likelihood, stress), you ran to the doctors to pop some pills -- hey, it's the American Way, we can fix everything with science. And to think that you did this for a meagre $50K a year... well, good luck getting the monkey off your back. Two older siblings of a childhood friend are dead from smack overdoses, two talented, promising people. Hope the same doesn't happen to you.
"Thanks for the rather insincere advice and encouragement."
I don't recall giving you any advice, I offered my opinion on your sorry tale. The encouragement was genuine. I do hope you kick the habit.
"Obviously it's easier for you to write me off as a junkie, and say that I took drugs for money?!?!? I discussed my career, to illustrate what I LOST from drugs, not what i stood to gain. I never used drugs to further my career... that is the most unintelligent thing I've read in years. I don't know how you took that from my post."
The whole gist of your post seemed to be "I had these problems, chose not to follow a more reasonable solution than pain-killer abuse followed by taking opium (did you somehow think opium was better than heroin?) in order that I could keep working at my wonderful job." I have little sympathy for you, which you seem to expect. I read your post twice before posting and just read it again. I still reach the same conclusion. Just because I disagree with you is no reason to resort to name-calling and insults. If you really want serious discussion, you could avoid doing that and try to sway my opinion with argument rather than invective.
I injured my back last year, while dunking a basketball.
My regimen consisted of daily stretching and weekly hour long dips in a hot tub, I missed two days of work, and it took a over a month before my back was normal again. But after a week, I was able to work with minimal problems.
-You can cry, but you'll still die. There'll be no tears in the end.
After about 6 years of varying amounts of pains, the last 3 pretty bad, this is what it amounts to for me: - exercise. Regularly, carefully. Every day I do exercize is a day where it's about twice as likely I'll end up on a bed stretched out from pain, but this is the only way to improve in the long run. Building up the muscles. - equipment etc. A good chair, obviously. See a professional and have them look at how you sit (posture, distance to screen etc) - take breaks. Regular breaks with light stretching exercize. - stop smoking. Nicotine throttles the amount of blood (hence, oxygene) that is available to your back musculature. Since the back is constantly constricted while you sit, your back muscles atrophie while you sit. Atrophied back musculature means high loads on bones and ligatures or whatever it's called. Smokers have a very high rate of back injuries. (Someone with professional knowledge in this might be able to use the right words here - me I'm just a programmer with a bad back). - remember it might take time. If you spent 10 years ruining your back with bad treatment, don't be surprised if it isn't possible to fix with a week's training, a new chair and a massage. Good luck, and don't despair. Sorry 'bout lack of proper words. Not my first language and all that. -
To this day, when I go out to warm up while skating, I can still feel a little crick reaching my hockey stick down to my skates.
After car accident last year, (I was rear ended) the chiropractor took x-rays and found my back was already bent in the wrong direction. My back had evolved from sitting down at the computer for most of my life. Of course, the main reason this happen is because I was young and my bones were still soft and molding in the correct direction. I have pictures of me sitting down at the computer when I was 5 years old. After that, you rarely found me anywhere else. Of course, now that I'm getting older, the effects of my bent back are taking place. I have asthma, very bad head aches all the time, and sometimes my back hurts so bad I cant bend over. Keep in mind, all this, and I'm only 19. Now I go to the chiropractor 2 - 3 times a week. I want to get my back into the right shape. Who knows what effects this will have on me 20, or even 30 years down the road. But it does make me wonder what the overall effects are going to be as more and more people spend their days and evenings sitting at the computer. 80% of the time I am awake I spent sitting down in a chair, and I am sure there are many more people that do the same. I think a lot of us take our legs for granted. Our ability to walk is a gift that not all people are so grateful to have. Only when we lose something do we begin to contemplate on what we could have done with what was lost.
Strangely enough, I find that caffeine helps my back tremendously. Specifically, caffeinated mints work wonders.
The other thing I is use my sister's cat as a backrest. He's a big guy, so he doesn't mind, and the purr of a cat has been shown to reduce time needed for bones to mend, so I suppose that it's not inconcievable that is also is a muscle relaxant. Anyway, it works.
I'm the stranger...posting to
. . . alternately slumping for one hour and then slouching for another hour. As long as you work an even number of hours you have an averagely straight back at the end of the working day (or night) ;)
"If being a geek means being passionate about something, then I pity those who aren't geeks." - Pike65
I tried all of them, pain killers, chiropractor, etc. I do agree completely with the idea of getting a good chair. That makes a huge difference. As far as exercise is concerned, you might try yoga. I found that my back pain went away completlely after developing a yoga practice.
I got a Kneeling Chair last Christmas and I've had no discomfort while sitting at my computer for hours at a time.e chkneelingchair.htm).
(It's like the one on this site: http://www.healthyback.com/store/sitting/posturet
I recommend any of the following to prevert sore backs:
- use a kneeling chair
- stand and stretch every 45 minutes
- get an AbRoller and use it every second night
- do hyperextensions every second night
Hope this helps,
Trenchcoat Steve
I am posting this under a new account, as my old account has been ravished by people at work that were logging in as me and not knowing it. Please disregard the original post. I have had serious backpain for more than six yeares. I am only in my mid twenties, and I have been in and out of the hospital for this. I started taking pain killers about six years ago for a pinched nerve/bulged disc after injuring my lower back lifting an HP 4mv (big laser printer). I was only 18, and they didn't want to consider surgery at the time. The doctor said that the pain killers would help with the immediate pain, and physical therapy would help after that. At first they relieved the pain without a problem. I went to therapy and after a few months things seemed to get much better. I continued my job as a system administrator for a small newspaper. I spent at least 10 hours a day 5 to 7 days a week sitting in a chair hunched over a keyboard. My back seemed ok, but six months later, I was disconnecting a patch cable from a computer that needed to be taken into my office, and what do you know... I threw my back out again.! I went back to the doctor, and immediately, they gave me another prescription of pain killers. I took these until my back was well enough to go to physical therapy again. This time my doctor warned me that if I didn't really start to get active and take better care of my back, that it could get worse on it's own. I finished out my physical therapy and wen back to work. While I was at work, sitting in my chair, to all hours of the night, my back started hurting me. It would hurt no matter what I was doing. I didn't need to be lifting something to have it bother me. I went to my doctor and he gave me something else for pain. It was a less powerful pain killer. It didn't seem to cut the pain like the previous presccriptions did. I ended up taking more of them to acheive the same level of pain relief. It was really hard to go to work and sit in a chair for nearly 60 hours a week, because my lower back was always hurting. My doctor ended up cutting me off the pills, so that I wouldn't develop an addiction problem. Unfortunately it was probably too late. That night I was in a lot of pain, and I ended up calling my family doctor (at almost midnight) at his home, to get him to call me in some pain killers. He did so, but told me never to ask him again, without having an appointment. After all, he wasn't treating me for my back problems, my nuerologist was. I went through those pretty fast, and ended up going back to him for more. He turned me down, and ended up sending me back to a physical therapist. The therapist told me that I needed to take better care of my back, and put me through vigorous therapy, until I built up my muscles in my back enough to go without pain everyday. Move ahead two years in the story, and throw in a a few more stints with back injuries (some work related, some not) and there I was, back on pain killers. it was a fulltime job to get doctors to keep prescribing them to me. One of my close friends had a similar problem, and he was on them all the time too. We joined efforts, and contributed to each others addiction. Years went by, and before long, we were really, hardcore opiate addicts. I still had the back pain, because I never changed my lifestyle enough to make a difference. I spent 60+ hours a week at work, developing my career at a fortune 500 corporation. I was 23, and I had it all. I was making 50k/year, living in my home town, working as the Data/Voice Network Engineer for said company. I had a reputation for going way beyond what was expected of me when it came to work. I had secured myself into the Executive I.S. Development Program in the corporation. That meant I was in training (at a corporate level) for a position as a Information Systems Director at one of the 200 hundred daily newspapers that my fortune 500 corporation owned. I was on top of the world... at least I thought. I also had a bad pain killer addiction, that up until now, had not proved to be a real problem in my life. I was able to juggle the doctors, and keep the pills coming in, because I was making real good money, and the cost of living is really low in my city in southern Florida. Things were about to get much worse, and I was in no way prepared to deal with what was to come. My friend, who also took painkiller, found a source for "opium"... but it was in pouder form. He brought it over, and we played around with it, snorting it. Before I knew it, I liked it a lot. I ended up buying it frequently, to fill in for pain killers when I was low. Little did I know, this was heroin. I ended up getting hooked on it in a relatively short period of time. It was so much like pain killers, but it was better. I couldn't quit. It started interfering with my job, and getting in betweenme and my friends. When I found out what it really was, I was already doing a lot of it, and didn't think anything of it. I was stupid, and blinded. I knew that I needed something for my pain, because my back was serious problem, but heroin was NOT the answer. Six months went by, and I tried to get help. I talked to my alreday suspicious family and boss. I took a sabatical from work, and tried to get treatment. I moved out of my house, and in with my family, who helped me through some really rough times. I ended up going back to work, but things were not the same. I had really ruined what I spent almost four years building. All the trust, and all the smiles had gone away. Work became a hard thing to deal with. I was still dealing with pain, because I was no longer taking pain killers, or H. I ended up getting an email from some head hunter, looking for a network engineer to be a consultant for a regional hospital chain. I took the offer right away. I wanted a clean start, and they were offering much more money than I was making at the current company. After a few months of working at the new job, clean and sober, until I met a girl who was going through the same thing I was. She had just quit H, and needed help getting clean. I figured who better to help than someone who has been there. We started dating, and before long we were both back on H. Within a month, I had lost my job, my new apartment, and I was living with her. I continued to use, but found a new job. A few months went by, and we both wanted to get clean. We tried going cold turkey, but it didn't work. After months of attempting to get clean, and many times, almost lodingmy new job, I ended up in a methadone clinic. After a couple weeks, I wasn't using at all. It helped me get clean, and it also helped a lot with pain in my back. Things were getting much better at work, because I was more there, mentally, and I wasn't missing work all the time. I am still with that employer. It was only two months ago that I got on methadone. I am the network admin for a local ISP. I don't make nearly what I used to. I have really damamaged my friendship with my family and friends. I'm in debt, and I still have back pain. It's no where near the same level if pain that I used to have, but at least I'm not taking pills everyday. I don't want to be on methadone for much longer, but I'm scared. I am your average, everyday Joe. None of my friends ever would have guessed what I was going through. I hid it from everyone because I was salways in fear of losing my job, or worse, someone finding out what I was really going through. If anyone out there is having a "problem" with pills, after having back problems, please, don't let it get out of control. I regret what I went through everyday of my life. No one should have to go through this. Ever. Let the flames begin....
What are you talking about? Have you ever had a bulged disc, or a pinched nerve? How about surgery? It is easier to say these things when you aren't experiencing real pain, for an extended period of time.
I never expected to see a "Howard Stern Rules" type of comment in this thread. Use your brain, and try to think things out for yourself, instead of believing the only thing you've ever read about the subject. Howard Stern is by no means an authorative figure onthis subject. BTW... what did you mean by "try TM"??
Thanks for the rather insincere advice and encouragement. I didn't do what I did for a job... I did it to relieve severe pain. I didn't have doctors that cared about my well being. Ignorance isn't an excuse, but I never knew what this could lead to. No one ever expects to end up as a junkie.
Stress didn't lead me to drugs, pain did. Saying that it's the "American Way" is a lame way to tell someone you don't approve of their actions. I shared my story to hopefully help someone else who is having trouble dealing with chronic pain, or possibly addiction. Obviously it's easier for you to write me off as a junkie, and say that I took drugs for money?!?!? I discussed my career, to illustrate what I LOST from drugs, not what i stood to gain. I never used drugs to further my career... that is the most unintelligent thing I've read in years. I don't know how you took that from my post.
Please, before you assume something as harsh as that again, take into consideration how it might make someone feel. You don't know me, and you obviously don't care about the subject we're all discussing. Please take your arrogance and ignorance somewhere else. It's really sad that people can't have a serious discussion here, without being trashed by someone who read way too much into someone's personal experience.
RE-read the post, and think about what you said. You might just change your mind.
Peace...Jaxn.
Thank you for your advice. I did in fact do yoga for a good six months. It really helped with stress from work, and it actually helped a lot with lower back and abdomen strength. I am trying to get up the strength to get back into it now. I practiced Aikido for years, and I was also a competitive long distance runner. It's difficult trying to run like I used to, because it can be a real strain on your back and knees. I also have two screws in my ankle, that put me through a year of physical therapy. I don't know why I left that out of my original post. I guess I was nervous when I was writing earlier. It's not easyto open up, especially in an unrelated forum such as slashdot.
Oh God!!! I copied my post off the page, and I completely forgot to add the html tags back in... this looks terrible. I just wanted people to be able to read a real post on this subject... beacuse it really hits home with me, and some of my other friends in the tech industry.
I was kind of expecting to get flamed for posting it twice, and for the subject as well... but now I can expect it for the tagless quality too.
Sometimes, you just can't win....Hopefully someone still reads this, and thinks about it.
I agree totally, but there are instances where the damage is already done, and no amount of strength training will fix the problem at hand. Building up strength in yourlower back and abdomen are two of the most important things you can do for preventative maintenance for you back. Gaining muscle and flexibilty in your lower back and abdomen can and will make your life easier if you suffer from mild to moderate bacak pain. But if you suffer from a bulged or slipped disc, or even a pinched nerve, make suree you see a real doctor before taking everyones advice to just "get healthy", because a serious injury like that does not "fix itself" through exercise. In fact, you can make the problem much worse, if you're not very careful.
I guess what I'm getting at, is don't take back pain lightly. It is a serious issue, that deserves serious consideration. Pain killers are NOT an answer. They only treat the symptoms and disguise the real problem. See a doctor! See more than one doctor. Make sure you get more than one diagnosis. Quite often, doctors are not qualified to diagnose and treat serious back problems. Misdiagnosis and mistreatment are can be major problems, that can very easily lead to a lifetime of pain and addiction to pain killers.
If you don't have serious back problems, then by all means, take care of it now. Exercise regularly, and use common sense. Use good posture and place your keyboard/mouse in an ergonomically correct position. It could mean the difference between a healthy, happy life, and one plagued with chronic back pain, and even worse, opiate addiction.
Take care...Jaxn.
Hermann Miller Aeron chairs, to be exact. I used to have back problems so severe that I would be bedridden for 2-3 days at least once a year. Three years ago I switched over to Aeron chairs, and I have not had a single back incident since then. Yes, they're expensive, but they are most definitely worth it. Buy your own, if necessary (whoever mentioned getting one cheap from a failed dotcom startup was spot on)and use it religiously.
After having back pains for about 15 years now, started at about the age 12 after a trampoline injury. I have found that two five minute sessions a day on an inversion make all the difference. Have found it also helps the migraines as well...
First, better posture while working on a computer. As many people mentionned, a good chair may help, however in my case what helped me the most is to sit straight, and lift my monitor about 30cm (1 foot), by putting phone directories ("Yellow Pages") underneath. This way the monitor is perfectly aligned with my eyes and I don't "slump" into my chair.
Second, some exercise. Many people also wrote about this, but I didn't see anyone talking about tai chi. It is really what got me out of my recuring back- and neckaches. You can take a look at www.taoist.org to get more info about the Taoist Tai Chi Society, which IMO is the best.
Hope this helps! :)
I had an operation when I was 18, having one disk removed and 2 flattened.I am now 30. My spine is to small so I get constant pain down my legs and and across my back. I excersice, and sit like I got a pole up my .... Fortunitly, my back only goes out about about once as year were I miss work. My suggestion to you, that is you have persistent back pain, see a doctor. I waited and paid the price. Codiene doesn't work. You need an anti-inflamatory like Advil, anything to lower the swelling caused by the aggravated disks, or muscles which then push against the nerves that run up your spine. Get a "lower lumbar" support at the local back store for your seat. This can also be used in your cars.
Several years ago I sustained a lengthly and rather painfull back injury. Ever since then I have experienced back pain almost daily. In more extreme cases you will never get rid of it, however many steps can be made to relieve it. In my own experience, I have found swimming to be very helpfull, as well as a regular routine of weight training. Sit-ups with some extra weight on your chest, incline sit-ups, bench press, etc. The trick isnt to try and lift a lot of weight (as you'll simply aggrivate an injury), just lots of repititions. Low impact activities like long walks also help. If you're back pain becomes accute, or simply doesnt go away you really ought to see your doctor. It can and lead to further complications.
I do a series of back stretches and yoga that work very well for me. I got mine from "Treat Your Own Back" by Robin A. McKenzie, but there are a number of such books at the library. I do stretches twice daily and have not had any serious back pain in years.
tried exercise made my back pain more intense don't need to lose weight I'm told I am just right
sex is good but its only works to relieve tension
and a stuffed nose(if you get my drift)plunger action!!!
vicoden works real well but i like to save them for my cluster headaches(because that pain is worse than child birth)
so i live with the pain until i get a cluster then ian smooth sailing
I find that smoking marijuana releives the pain, and also causes me to go over my work slow enough to find even the most Evil of buggs, typos and assorted other booboos i have made.
Now, I KNOW that the buttnozzle who posted this had registered his nick, you have to to get one, and i know that when he did that, his ip address was recorded. I really wanna know what it is, all of a sudden.
I went to a chiro. first to get all the kinks taken out of my back ($$$) then got one of those big, funky (cheap) exercise balls to sit on (75cm for someone about 183cm) - haven't looked back since.
It helps keep your hips (and thus lower back) at the correct angle and strengthens your ab. muscles 'cos you're always making minor adjustments to keep on top of it.
It has the added bonus of making an excellent stress toy (just try to dunk it in the waste basket at lunch!), it's a minor talking/joking point and helps keep you awake for the all-nighters - you sleep, you fall off, you wake up.
No worries.
Go permanent? In your dreams and my worst nightmares.
In 1987 I was 25 and I had such terrible back pain I thought I'd land in a wheelchair or worse by the time I was 50. I made frequent late-night visits in agony to emergency rooms only to have the doctor on duty look at my X-rays, say something vague about pulled muscles, then dispatch me with lots of pain killers or muscle relaxers (or both!) and follow-up instructions. I saw a chiropractor for 8 years, from '88 to '96, and now I don't need him anymore. He was a great one, the kind of doctor who teaches you how to heal yourself. Here's what I know: Posture is everything. If you haven't made any discoveries along these lines, you have a very long way to go. There is a complex and delicate lattice of muscles around the spine, and they are in a constant state of flux. You need to explore their state from moment to moment, and stay tuned in. I've never studied yoga, but I've read enough to employ a few of its concepts, and I've also integrated some reading about zen meditation into my discipline. It's pretty easy: Breathe-stretch vertically-repeat. The zen book stressed how it was always important to sit (or stand, or lie) so that you were trying to always be an inch taller than you are. I've been working on this for 11 years now, and my lower back pain is a thing of the past (gone for more than 9 years) , although it can flare up slightly from time to time. When I see it coming, I stretch and, usually after a slight clicking noise I'm well again. The catch: This takes time, and discipline. Mental discipline. Enter the word "meditation". You can control the whole show, putting vertebrae back into place, loosening knotted muscles, and calming your mind and body to a state you've never experienced in your entire life. It feels like you'd been plugged into an electrical socket and someone finally turned off the power. Words cannot describe the feeling of relief. "Bliss" might come close. You need quiet time to do this. Turn off the TV and sit quietly on the floor, Indian-style. I don't tuck my feet the way the yoga people do, but go with whatever works. The key point is that you need time to discover your insides, and how your spine is balanced and how the muscles are pulling. To do this you'll have to quiet your mind and turn off any extraneous programs that are looping endlessly: song fragments, fears about work/home, conversations, etc. The goal is simply (sounds easier than it is) to empty your mind and stretch. Breath from the diaphragm, so that your lower abdomen "inflates" (stomach sticks out) when you breath in, and deflates when you breath out. Many people believe that all of the above can be practiced throughout the day, always having an inner retreat of solace with you even though you may be on a crowded trading floor full of screaming people. Indeed, we all know of "zen masters" in different disciplines who seem unruffled by their surroundings, no matter how they heat up. Anyhow, to review: sit bolt upright (don't use chair backs - "work out" every waking moment by stretching your frame up straight and strong against gravity), breath deeply and rhythmically from the diaphragm, and empty your mind of unnecessary, stress-inducing subprograms. In fact, try to empty it altogether. Leave cron running. Aim for the bliss. Also, check out the lumbar curves (lower back) on your favorite supermodel or bodybuilder. If you're like many adults your lower back and chest muscles are too tight, and your stomach and shoulder muscles are too loose. You don't have asthma as well, do you? A good targeted excercise program isn't a bad idea. Well, that's my rant. I have to stay on top of this constantly, or something tightens up, and I start having problems again. As I said, it's a discipline. In the end, it goes well beyond relieving back pain though. Or talk to your MD, as there's always the knife ...
-mz
A hodge-podge of random references:
- Chicago Tribune: sometime in 1987 featured in a Sunday section 100 or 200 top suggestions from readers on how they cope with back pain.
- North Dallas Forty: I haven't seen this in 15-20 years, but note how Nick Nolte's character pops his spine back into place following a football game. Lotsa crunching sound effects, but a good example of how we can be responsible for/manipulate our entire system. Somehow it stayed with me
- Any good yoga instructor will know everything listed above. Or find someone who teaches zen meditation
- Star Wars Phantom Menace: Obi-Wan to young Aniken near the end, about learning to quiet his mind
Surgery. When I abandoned my career as an English professor and began hacking code for a living, no one told me that you could rupture a disk in your back merely by hunching over a keyboard for hours at a time. I learned this the hard way. When I was teaching, I did not sit in one position for extended periods of time. Six months after I starting coding for a living, I blew out a disc in my L4-L5 region of the lower back. This was entirely due to my bad posture, the bad chair without back support and the bad elevation of my keyboard. All these factors made me hunch all day. This was enough to rupture a disk. I was in agony. I had pains down my leg and often I could not move my toes. There was no alternative to surgery. Since then (Jan 1982) I have learned to ALWAYS demand a good chair with full back support. I use an adjustable foot stool to lift my feet and prevent stress on the lower back. I also lost weight by exercise and diet. Removing the "beer belly" relieved stress on the lower back. I have been very lucky and relatively free of pain since then (except for the time I picked up a 21 inch monitor and put it in my trunk. DON'T DO THAT EVER!!!)
In general any gentle movement / exercise is better than prolonged bedrest after injury. Recent research and treatment into chronic back pain focuses on RETRAINING (not always strenghthening) the dynamic stability muscles of the deep abdomen and back. (refer to anything recent by C.Richardson P.Hodges J.Hides G.Jull et al). If you are experiencing recurring or chronic back pain the best advice I can give is to SPEAK TO A PHYSIOTHERAPIST and enquire about Transversus abdominus / multifidus retraining. If you want a brief synopsis of recent theory here goes: In normal subjects certain deep stability muscles (not your superficial abdominals or "six pack")automatically contract PRIOR to your body performing an action such as lifting an arm/leg etc. (the proposed neurological pathways and feed-forward mechanisms are still under investigation) In people with chronic back pain, not only have these muscles decreased in size (ie atrophied) but more importantly they no longer contract BEFORE the action or movement occurs. Instead they tend to contract AT THE SAME TIME as the larger superficial muscles which are assisting with moving the limb. Research has shown that with correct training patients can be taught to SELECTIVELY activate/contract stability muscles (rather than the oldfashioned abdominal muscle "bracing") prior to performing tasks which place them at risk. Funnily enough people who practiced this significantly decreased incidence and severity of back pain! The point is - Doing exercise such as situps only reinforces the bad pattern of bracing and late activation of abdominal stabilisers. If you have serious problems GET SERIOUS HELP. See your physio.........