Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft To Start Running Anti-Unix Ads
PhreakinPenguin writes: "According to this article on News.com, Microsoft and Unisys are preparing to pay for a slew of ads to 'undermine' Unix with the theme of 'We have the way out.' They are apparently hyping that Unix is an expensive money trap. One ad states, 'No wonder Unix makes you feel boxed in. It ties you to an inflexible system. It requires you to pay for expensive experts. It makes you struggle daily with a server environment that's more complex than ever.' Unisys is apparently putting up $25 million and Microsoft won't say how much they're chipping in but you can bet it's more than Unisys." As the article notes, this comes after floundering attempts to sell (through Dell, Compaq and Hewlett-Packard) the high-end Unisys machines pushed by these ads.
Doesn't Microsoft already own enough of the world? You think they could leave UNIX geeks alone.
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
I'd rather pay for expensive experts than hand over $4 for a six pack of MCSEs.
Either you pay someone who really knows what they are doing well for the job, or you pay some jerk who only thinks he knows what he is doing next to nothing. Guess which one costs you more in the long run. Why don't businesses look to the long run? (I really want to know)
nahtanoj
Since we've all seen the ads for Visual Studio.NET. Heh, money buys anyone, no matter how biased.
Nice business practices, MS. You'd think you could prove that your product is superior through example, not slander. If these ads are half as bad as they seem, I say IBM starts making commercials full of BSoD's and says explicitly: "You will never see a blue screen of death with Unix".
We dance to all the wrong songs.
--Refused.
It would be nice to see Sun and IBM, etc.. to start running some straight on anti-microsoft ads. I do like Sun's comment
"As for Unix being 'inflexible,' 'expensive,' and 'complex,' we feel those are terms much better suited to the closed and proprietary world of Windows."
Now if they will only put that into an ad of their own, that whole reply, sums up this marketing campaine very nicly.
Could someone explain to me why Unisys is siding with Microsoft on this? There has got to be some back story I'm not aware of.
Remember XENIX anyone? In fact, until Caldera bought out SCO, Microsoft used to own part of it. Does Microsoft own Caldera stock now? Wouldn't that be ironic.
Warren Postma
sed -e '/Unix/Microsoft/' < Microsoft.ad
If you're talking about an older version of UNIX tied to a specific vendor, Microsoft MAY have a point... but the little secret that Microsoft doesn't want you know is that Unix in general is becoming more open-source AND is becoming more of a commodity rather than a specific that runs only on specific hardware.
I guess what I'm saying is that Unix is losing more and more market share to operating systems like Linux. (Linux is NOT unix, although it's quite similar) This is especially true administrators (rather than corporate commitees) get to pick the operating system to use.
A good case in point is the market share and mind share of Solaris and Linux. Sun Microsystems just recently released the source code of Solaris under a "community license" (which is NOT the same thing as GPL, but it's the best we can expect from Sun Microsystems). Did Sun have to release the source code? Not really. But it knows it would lose MORE mind share to Linux if it didn't.
Seeing as how Microsoft's .NET advertising campaign was a blatant rip-off of IBM's infamous blue horizontal bars.
I wouldn't be surprised if you see a Microsoft software box in a completely white studio with the camera shooting it from all angles, and a fashionable tune in the background (Apple).
I'd rather have a bowl of coco-pops.
MS can crow all they want that Unix is hard to use - and I might have thought so, until I used OS X. Great GUI (needs some tweaking, but hell, what doesn't), start ssh, ftp, and Apache with a click of the mouse, and you can go configure the .conf files if you want - or if you don't want.
Yes, Unix is inflexible. That's why open source Linux runs on nearly every piece of hardware you can find. I use it for my Day Job web/general Unix servers, running on cheap desktops or expensive rack mount units.
Consultants are expensive. I can actually go out and buy a book on Unix, then look at the source code of FreeBSD, Linux, Darwin - and change things myself. Oh, good god, adduser is so hard to figure out.
Oh, yeah. Unix is so hard. Especially when those blue screens of death pop up that interfere with my work or those proprietary API's that I can't get all the info to, and - oh wait. Unix doesn't have that.
52 Weeks, 52 Religions with John Hummel
the only way to survive in a market
where you are not the leader is simply
to deny the existence of others...
it fools the ignorants and might help
gain market share. I do not think
those ads can convince seasoned professionals
with years of UNIX/big iron mainframe
experience (admittedly hard to setup, but runs
for ever afterwards) to switch to windows
(just the opposite).
Google passes Turing test : see my journal
Let's face it, everyone wants to see the results now and get their work "done" - if that means having to scrap and rewrite a system 2 years from now, they don't want to hear it. We'll deal with it when that time comes in 2 years. And in 2 years, we'll again build a throw-away, far-from-good solution and start all over again.
And with the people controlling the money not listening to the whys and hows that get them into the predicament (and forgetting what they decided last WEEK, let alone last YEAR, that put them there), you're pretty much stuck dealing with the cheap route all the time.
In recent news..
Microsoft will be promoting themselves by purchasing the poster line by Despair, Inc from think geek.
thelikesofwhich.com
Maybe they should put in their adds that 'Any monkey can run a win2k server'. Obviously they would leave the part out about 'But those servers will get 0wned by some retarded worm, and if you want your box as secure as a unix box, you gotta pay loads of money for a MS expert... since.. an expert is an expert, and they are expensive.' Its sad. Thats all I have to say. But the fun part is, I'm diehard. No matter how much money MS dumps into advertising, they'll never get me. I'm only 1 person. But.. Still, atleast they won't get 'everyone'.
Sorry Bill, you can't get your monopoly on me, cuz I just don't like your shit.
Can all fish swim?
They are apparently hyping that Unix is an expensive money trap.
I thought M$ software was the biggest money trap for businesses? Let's see: $100 for the OS, $500 or so for Office... Maybe RedHat should run some ads saying they have the way out. At least RedHat lives up to the claims M$ is making.
Timothy,
monolinux posted this yesterday.
Please stay more up-to-date with the articles that you post. Thanks.
Between Intel and Microsoft, I'd have to say the two companies do more negative campaigning in the business world in one year than most local, state or federal politicians do throughout the course of an election.
So, what's the solution? 3 options.
It is now official - Netcraft has confirmed: Windows is dying
Yet another crippling bombshell hit the beleaguered Microsoft Corporation when recently IDC confirmed that Windows accounts for a declining fraction of all Internet servers. Coming on the heels of the latest Netcraft survey which plainly states that Windows has lost more market share, this news serves to reinforce what we've known all along. Windows is collapsing in complete disarray, as further exemplified by failing dead last in the recent Sys Admin comprehensive networking test.
You don't need to be Kreskin to predict Windows's future. The hand writing is on the wall: Windows faces a bleak future. In fact there won't be any future at all for Windows because Windows is dying. Things are looking very bad for Windows. As many of us are already aware, Windows continues to lose market share. The green ink from declining sales flows like a river of blood. Windows XP is the most endangered of them all, having lost more of its core developers than any other operating system.
Due to the troubles of Microsoft, abysmal sales of Windows and other products and so on. Recently, Slashdot reported a possible removal of Windows from the market by Microsoft. This only serves to confirm the fact that Windows is unwanted, doomed to be passed around like a harelip orphan from one foster parent to another.
All major surveys show that Windows has steadily declined in market share. Windows is very sick and its long term survival prospects are very dim. If Windows is to survive at all it will be among OS hobbyist dabblers. Windows continues to decay. Nothing short of a miracle could save it at this point in time. For all practical purposes, Windows is dead.
Fact: Windows is dead
If Unix sucks, I'll switch to Linux.
{{.sig}}
I would say this is a continuance of their pissing match with Sun. The one thing I would have to disagree with is the part that says you have to hire "expensive experts". If a company is looking at running *nix full time, they already have the experts in place. The only time we ever hired outside people to come in is when we were stacked to the rafters with implementation items. Hell, we just bought Office and Windows for a client the other day and the cost for 20 each was around $10,000. And that was for all Windows upgrades, not even the full license. They could of bought a nice server with that kind of cash.
My sig of choice is Marlboro
"It requires you to pay for expensive experts." Then there's the Micro$oft alternative... Pay more money for our latest incarnation of buggy OS. Then there's our office suite that just happens to cost more than just about every other office suite on the market put together. Hmmm...
Heroscape, it's like legos combined with anachronistic wargames.
It shouldn't take IBM, et al, long to start running ads that show an MS-only shop having all the boxes go down simultaneously. Then, the CIO goes looking for who can get things fixed, he can only find clowns in the IT department saying "maybe we should just hit all the reset buttons." Maybe dressing the fools up like clowns would make the point that much better.
*sigh* Everyone knows you get what you pay for. Expensive employees generally pull their weight. A clown that only knows MS products isn't much better than a trained monkey.
Of course, I think MS has a place in businesses--just like *nix. Companies really should diversify their operationing systems so that they can take full advantages of each. MS Win2K just isn't as good of a webserver, for example, as many of the *nixes. And a Win2K Server is nice for tying together a bunch of Windows workstations. Exploit the advantages of each.
Long, cute, or funny Sigs are just another form of over compensation, used by geeks, nerdz, etc.
Netcraft says:
The site www.wehavethewayout.com is running Rapidsite/Apa-1.3.14 (Unix) FrontPage/4.0.4.3 mod_ssl/2.7.1 OpenSSL/0.9.5a on FreeBSD.
I wonder, does this kind of ad really works?
I thought that it was generally believed that everyone immediately sees through "we-will-help-you-get-away-from-evil-competitor" ads. Giving the viewer the completely wrong impressions.
But on the other hand, Unisys and Microsoft. They are not exactly known for caring what the customer thinks as long as they pay.
well, having used it, i can see where *unisys* unix could be a money trap, but... why in the world are they teaming with M$?
It's great that they have such a wonderful campaign going...can they show me something to back up what they're saying?
When you show me a Windows server that has an uptime of over 650 days, I might rethink my position.
Jeremy Baumgartner
-->> It requires you to pay for expensive experts. --
So MS would prefer the usual and currently employed monkeys run servers as opposed to an expensive expert.
It's expensive for any GOOD expert. It just happens cheap self made experts have read the windows help file and aren't familiar with the man command.
grrr
They're gonna get sued anyway...
Oh, and if hiring a sysadmin is expensive, I guess they haven't taken a look at the going rate for MSCEs lately, have they? Just because a 15 year old kid could administer your machines for Mountain Dew and Pizza doesn't mean you should run your business like that.
I wish someone like IBM or Solaris would do a similar ad against Microsoft.
I know how much Unix paid for an anti M$ ad campaign.
$5 subscribtion to slashdot.
--
The thing that struck me most was this concept of "expensive experts." I could easily see them expanding this campaign by inserting adjectives like "condescending", "difficult to communicate with", "obnoxious", and even "completely other, alien, and kinda creepy." These are all representative of the impression regular folks seem to have of the sysadmin, from what I can tell. As opposed to the impression of your average MS-savvy (love those two words together) "computer guy" who helps get you back on the network or shows you where your downloads go.
Maybe the bearded ones need a PR campaign.
:wq
For Microsoft to build a campaign against UNIX would be like Coke or Pepsi promoting a campaign against the evils of water.
UNIX is the backbone of the Internet. It started with university and military computers, and is still based on these technologies. It has spawned many successful clones and variants, including BSD, Mac OS X, Linux, Solaris, IRIX, and many more. And virtually ALL of these versions work well together and can exchange code.
Not that this is surprising, but Microsoft is arrogant to point of giving the finger to God. This is really a sign is disrespect for everything built over the years by the blood, sweat and tears of the first network pioneers.
Unisys sounds like it has little to lose since it's been sitting on its corporate butt so long that even the oldest of us have forgotten what they've recently done in the computing world.
I'm not making a righteous stand for just the UNIX world. Microsoft is really a company with poor ethical practices and should be recognized as such.
Microsoft could have it all by realizing that practically all its major competitors have a UNIX base in their OS, even Apple. Instead of fighting the UNIX family, they could cash in simply and easily by moving the Windows NT/XP base to a true UNIX base, and create (the usual closed-source) apps in UNIX versions that can be compiled for virtually every UNIX family OS. (Not that everyone would want the apps, but at least it would be there..)
But NOOOOOO...
I was ranting on how OSS was too disorganized to fight MS in certain market attacks--that OSS lacks a defined leader. This instance is an exception. There are plenty of corporate makers and users of UNIX who might jump on the big MS "screw you" bandwagon and even pump up some cash in the corporate and legal system to get MS to shut their corporate pie hole.
Pissing off the U.S. Government is one thing. Pissing off other big businesses is quite another.
Vos teneo officium eram periculosus ut vos recipero is.
my $bs = "No wonder Unix makes you feel boxed in. It ties you to an inflexible system. It requires you to pay for expensive experts. It makes you struggle daily with a server environment that's more complex than ever";
$bs =~ s/unix/microsoft/i;
$bs =~ s/complex/nonsense/i;
$bs =~ s/expensive/clueless/i;
print $bs;
Not only is it the wrong tactic, but it will hurt them in the enterprise services world. There's a reason the stock market uses Sybase ASE and not sql server. No matter how much money microsoft puts into getting high TCP numbers, real DBA's know the difference. Here's to hoping microsoft continues this line of advertising and continue to shoot themselves in the foot in the enterprise services world.
"They are apparently hyping that Unix is an expensive money trap. One ad states, 'No wonder Unix makes you feel boxed in. It ties you to an inflexible system. It requires you to pay for expensive experts. It makes you struggle daily with a server environment that's more complex than ever."
Ok, this kinda floored me. Those are the EXACT SAME REASONS we DON'T love Microsoft where I work. Hello Pot, meet Mr. Kettle.
Well hey, if they are ramping this up and spending that much on advertising, it means Linux has them running scared, and that is a good thing.
Hell is being intelligent in a world full of idiots.
Has anyone seen those RoadRunner ads where the Internet is mad slow under dialup? Sun should have some kind of ad where some guy is really stressed and grabbing his hair and it zooms in on the screen saying "Your computer has crashed. Send $1000 to Bill Gates, 1 Microsoft Way, Redmond WA and we might consider fixing it in ten years."
Then again, to acknowledge M$ gives them a tint of credibility. Funny that MS can't compete on its own merits.
Interesting relationship between Unisys and Microsoft. Unisys makes decent hardware, but that's not what their technicians must think. For over a year, I have seen DLT tape drive failures on a pair of servers and they replaced the tape unit several times, with new overnighted internal/external scsi configurations.
These parts swapping techs swore it was never a software failure. I guess ordering parts was easier than solving the impossible glitch of the backup software. Oh, was I tempted to take one of these perfectly good 80GB tape drives home for my use.
Oh, the possibilities.
* Rachel Leigh Cook wailing on a server with a frying pan, screaming about security holes.
* Unix Sysadmin: "I help sponsor terrorism. Hey, it's OpenSource software."
* Dying rat crawling out of a server room, warning about second-hand coding.
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
Because their investors, which generally include the upper management, don't intend to hold onto their stock for the long run. They want to make a quick buck selling it, or recover a quick profit from destroying the company. Obviously, this isn't always true - Microsoft looks to the long run, for example :(.
Personally, I think this is a really stupid ad campaign on MS' part. The only thing I can think is they've deluded themselves into believing their product is somehow superior. I suppose there are a few people, who think (or hell, maybe they can) that they could maintain an MS server themselves but couldn't maintain a Unix server, who might fall for the line, but not very many.
The good and new comes from no quarter where it is looked for, and is always something different from what is expected.
"It requires you to pay for expensive experts."
I see, like those MCSE's that they claim earn an average of $80k a year. Hmmm. An AVERAGE of $80k doesn't sound that inexpensive to me.
Especially since most of the ones I've run into know little to nothing about computers. We actually hired one (don't ask me why) who didn't know you could hook up a printer thru a zip drive, I wish I were making this up.
Sounds like MS is experiencing a panic attack of some sort.
I think Microsoft has begun to learn a little about high end computing. Remember a few years ago when all the trade rags were writing Unix obit, claiming MS was going to eat their lunch with cheap high end WinTel boxes (of course, MS [like any other company] were feeding this line of bull to everyone).
Well it looks like MS have learned there's a reason that high end, rock solid industrial strength computing isn't cheap. You can't just bung Windows on commodity hardware and expect it to 24/7. So the advantage that MS had at the departmental level in the past (cheaper and easier to use than its competitors, lest we forget that that was a major selling point of Windows in the 90s) it doesn't have on the high end. Unix is entrentched and competative price wise. MS are going to have a VERY HARD time eeking out market share at the high end. They'll have some successes, but the world will not be running on MS Big Iron any time soon (if ever)
That's why I choose Microsoft Windows for my computing work. The easy setup and configuration let me get right to work and the cross-platform standardizations let me easily port my work for colleagues. Furthermore, the highly-optimized nature of the Windows Operating System Kernel makes for blazingly fast simulation runs even on the low-end hardware that my University is willing to pay for.
Don't get me wrong, I love Linux. The quirky command-line interface makes me nostalgic for my days as a student using fun but non-standard packages like LaTeX and gnuplot. But when I want enterprise-level support for my physic-al work, I always choose the software that I know won't let me down.
Apparently MS doesnt know thier own pricing for calling thier Tech Support with an incident?
"If you have done 6 impossible things this morning, why not round it off with breakfast at Milliways" -- hhgg
Microsoft, previously, has been in the position that they didn't have to compete with anybody. In fact, if you look at all of their advertisements in magazines, you see that they only refer to themselves when trying to pump one product over another (NT vs 95). It seems that now they are facing competition that just isn't moving, and they are having to actually face that competition.
It puts them in a position of weakness, not of strength. This ad campaign will do more for UNIX than it does for Microsoft, because Microsoft will have to admit that it is facing competition, and UNIX is being chosen by experts. This will be the biggest blow to Microsoft's corporate image in many years.
Engineering and the Ultimate
as opposed to expensive idiots?
I drank what? -- Socrates
Whatever they do, MS and UNISYS will not be able to stop the impending UNIX explosion. I run an ISP - and to the surprise of our customers we don't run ANY NT servers. A lot of businesses that host with us want to publish with frontpage, we tell them that we don't run NT/frontpage becasue of Microsoft's poor track record. We tell all out consulting customers the same. In fact we use the bridge anlogy.
:-)
Suppose you have to build a bridge. Two ntrepreneurs come to you.
One says:
I will build your bridge. In order to prevent anyone from sabotaging your bridge, by exploiting design flaws, nobody sees these plans.
The other entrepreneur says:
Here are the plans to your bridge. 10,000 engineers have seen the plans to this bridge. Any problems were corrected, and 10,000 engineers looked again. You can check that your bridge matches these plans. If it doesn't suit your needs, you can change it. 10,000 engineers will help you.
Now, I have two questions:
1) Which bridge would you buy?
2) Which bridge would you drive over when it is built?
I say " I'd trust something that has been looked at by 10,000 people to trust my data to, What about you."
That changes thier minds right away
MS Marketer 1: Hmm we need to come up with lots of ideas that make UNIX look bad.
MS Marketer 2: I know, lets take all the customer complaints about Windows and replace any mention of Windows with UNIX.
MS Marketer 1: Brilliant! No wonder why we get 6 figure salaries.
Outdoor digital photography, mostly in New Engl
FUCK MICROSOFT!
.NET and my machine becoming essentially a terminal on a "pay to play" network is truly frightning. The complete arrogance that MS has begun to show, despite there battles with the justice system, should really be an eye opener to most of us passive types.
Everybody knows that in the server market, MS can't compete. What they had better realize is that the end is near. I and several of my computer literate friends have all recently started migrating to different flavors of linux as desktop machines.
The thought of
When Win2k gets shelved, there will be no windows OS on any of my machines. You want to talk about being painted into a corner!! Oh sorry, no VNC for you. You like your corner? Its over 70 times more stable than before! Blue screen, blue screen, blue screen. It's time to take that paint bucket and throw it at bill just like a coconut creme pie.
Exit strategy [ Linux ]
Time frame [ ASAP! ]
Do you people honestly expect them to cheerlead for unix. They are a business for crissake and unix is their arh-nemesis.
And advertising does work. That is the only way for people to know you exist (at least in a competetive commercial environment).
Someone should make a Parody Reply Ad series. The parody ads could also be called "We have the way out," and describe NT as an expensive trap. "No wonder NT makes you feel boxed in. It increasingly ties you to an inflexible Microsoft-only system. It requires you to pay for expensive team of constantly paged MSCEs. It makes you struggle daily with a server environment that's more complex and non-Microsoft specific than ever," one ad can read.
Have fun with the parodies!
The site has a couple of PDFs .. ahem, I think I will ;-)
need an hourly wget/cron job, ahem
--
Check out www.wehavethewayout.com - the official campaign site. It runs FreeBSD!
According to netcraft
Check out the netcraft results here.
I once has the misfortune to play with an Exchange Server 2000 system that had run out of disk space. The much vaunted storage system for the Exchange Server database was dead and unrestorable without hitting the last full backup.
Yes, you need good hardware to run a Win 2K enterprise system because if it goes down, you can easily stand to lose a lot. On open source systems, you at least have a chance of fixi ng things.MSDN is a great resource but it comes nothing as good as the support that you get with having source code so you can hunt around datastructures.
Methinks MS/Unisys are getting worried!!!!
As a consultant, I'm equally as expensive whether you run a *nix shop or a MS shop.
The revolution will be televised. Blackout restrictions apply.
It seems to me the new free UNIX and UNIX-like OS's are the true way out. Linux, FreeBSD, OpenBSD, etc. All run very well (arguably better than MS products) on inexpensive Intel x86 hardware. They also run on the current higher end 64 bit platforms (Sparc, Alpha, Itanium) and will run on the newer 64 bit procs from AMD. Incredibly flexible IMHO.
Sure, maybe proprietary UNIX on big iron is slowly being replaced, but free and open source UNIX/Linux will be there to take its place.
A lot of the selling points that MS is focusing on in the ad campaign actually speak better for the free/open UNIX and UNIX-like alternatives than of MS's own products.
"No wonder Unix makes you feel boxed in (Microsoft licensing anyone?). It ties you to an inflexible system (ahem, Microsoft?!?). It requires you to pay for expensive experts (MCSE |= EXPERT). It makes you struggle daily with a server environment that's more complex (Microsoft - The epitome of complexity) than ever."
Well, they've sold me. I'm sticking with Linux!
Co-founder and designer at Music Nearby: http://musicnearby.com
This would be a great opportunity for companies like Sun, Red Hat, IBM, etc. to purchase two of these Unisys ES7000 servers, and donate them to an independent reviewing company. Have the reviewers load a *NIX data center solution on one and a Microsoft's Windows 2000 data center solution on the other. Then compare performance, maintainabilty, price, scalability, etc. This would put the ol' kebosh on Microsoft's typical FUD campaign.
You mean MS wants us to think Unix isn't as good as it's OS? What do you expect? I run 2000 when it's appropriate and I run Linux when it's appropriate why doesn't everyone else? Don't get up on your soapbox and start yelling about how one is better then the other. There is a different focus for these operating systems. The only thing I have to complain about is that MS finds it necessary to push its product into markets that it is not really prepped for. If it wants to get into the high end server business it needs to do some more work before pushing it on consumers, but as far as desktops and low to low-middle road servers, its more then adequate and simple to use on top of that.
Business News and Resources: www.usasource.net
Well, it's not a real ad. It was on the Reg. a couple of days ago, all I have left is the link to the (broadband) Real clip of it:
d =1 016482980633
http://vcast.v4c23.net/web/servlet/PlayMovie?ai
I watched it like 10 times in a row and kept LMAO. Note that even the music/words are changed into something that sounds like "ray of light" but it actually is another tune altogether ("seems like we're going down"). Really funny.
read the subject with high sarcasm. The OS war has gone on for a while, why are people so upset like it had never been there?
OS, software, hardware are tools, use which ever gets what you need done.
-Flamesplash
"Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door." - Emily Dickinson
Is it just me or are some versions of Unix (or Unix like OSes) are free.
"One ad states, 'No wonder Unix makes you feel boxed in. It ties you to an inflexible system..."
Unix (and Unix like OSes) run on just about every platform under the sun. Windows only runs on x86 and Alpha (didn't it used to run on PPC too?)
"...It requires you to pay for expensive experts..."
Why not look up the starting salary of an MCSE and tell me who's expensive.
"...It makes you struggle daily with a server environment that's more complex than ever."
Windows seems to be getting more complex than ever to me. While at the same time, projects on Linux (easily portable to other Unicies if not there already) are making things easier than ever.
Comment forecast: Bits of genius surrounded by a sea of mediocrity.
namely, that microsoft actually considers unix a viable opponent worth spending dozens of millions of dollars on to advertise against it. i wonder how this anti-ad campaign will compare to that of all their other successfull ones (at least in their opinion) ala lotus et al.
QED
BSD is for people who love UNIX. Linux is for those who hate Microsoft.
But then again microsoft wants you to beleive that these idiots who can install MS Office and other software are IT experts. They spend an eternity filling in these forms, called configuration tools and have to wait for a service pack to secure a server. While it may work in some cases the time these individuals take to finish the job ends up costing you more than the true experts in the feild. Irrelavent which OS you use.
DRM? No thanks, I'll just get it somewhere else...
Don't forget last year, when MS sent out those "public service announcements" that touted the expiration date of NetWare! Novell was pissed about that, and got the ads pulled. (Rumor has it that NetWare 6 is the last one, but you didn't hear that from me.)
This ad campaign will probably backfire on them. Most smart IT people have had enough dealings with MS in the past to recognize marketing FUD when they see it.
I've adminned for several years in very diverse-OS environments (NT, 2000, NetWare, Unix, OS2, etc.) If (and only if) you truly know about the inner guts of NT/2000, you can build stable, secure environments with it. I've had uptimes of a year or so (not the norm, but it does happen!) Lots of "experts" think they're NT/2K wizards because it's got the same GUI that their desktop does. I've gone into environments with NT/2000 boxes several service packs out of date, missing all the security fixes, etc.
MS's ads state that Unix vendors lock you in. They do, but they're at least a little more reasonable than they have been in the past. Windows' main strength in this regard is that if you hate your server vendor, you can fire him and get a new server. Sun makes you buy Sun hardware. So does HP. Linux and freeBSD are some of the only remaining Intel choices, and most businesses aren't ready to give up tech support and easy availability of consulting help yet. MS also mentions expensive experts. Yes, Unix admins are expensive, but MS is probably assuming that its half-a-million MCSEs are all experts. As a holder of that certification, I can tell you that this is a falsehood. Even the MCSE/2K exams were easier than I had hoped they would be. You get what you pay for, as always!
this will just generate more publicity for Linux. This is the second coming of unix and it cannot be stopped. Might as well tell people to stop wearing shoes, or other handy items in life.
Alex Bischoff
HTML/CSS coder for hire
That labyrinth picture just begs for a 'the other side' view: Inside the labyrinth, happy people in pleasant surroundings using Un*x. Outside, a barren wasteland of toxic fumes and snakes where miserable wretches look at blue screens of death.
Oh, if only I could draw well enough.
-Lars
At the risk of losing some Karma, wasn't it on this very site where I saw an ad at the top of the page depicting a giant penguin terrorizing Redmond? If the topic here is a company trashing a competing OS in their ads, it bears noting that this coin has two sides.
Is this not the weirdest pair of bed-buddies you've ever heard of? Wasn't Unisys once a "Unix" vendor? Or, was it VMS? Unisys is even more old-school than Sun. Why is MS cozying up to them?
:-)
Here's a quick snapshot of Unisys history, grabbed from unisys.com:
1989 Unisys introduces Micro A, the first
desktop, single- chip mainframe.
1961 Burroughs introduces the B5000 Series,
the first dual- processor and virtual
memory computer.
1951 Remington Rand delivers UNIVAC computer
to the U.S. Census Bureau.
1873 E. Remington & Sons introduces first
commercially viable typewriter.
Typewriters? Would you trust your valuable data to a typewriter company?
Jason
Based on what I can see about the Unisys systems being touted here (servers with 8-32 processors, costing six-digit dollar amounts), this is not an ad targetting Linux or MacOS X-style BSD. This is aiming squarely at the proprietary UNIX systems Unisys' servers would be competing against -- Sun, HP/UX and the like.
Of course, I've not touched base with the high-end UNIX server market in years. Can someone else fill me/us in on who Unisys' competitors are, and whether or not the ads have any foundation at all?
Sun responded to the campaign in a statement.
"Sun still does not see Microsoft as a real threat in
the datacenter market where reliability, availability,
serviceability and security are key," [snip]
"We are all about customer satisfactionability, system
uptimeability, and cracker stopability", added Scott McCowboyNeal.
--
I worked for a database company a number of years ago, whose product had to work on _everything_. I ran a build/test lab with probably 200 different combinations of Unix/hardware. I remember the Unisys boxes to be some of the nastiest, running a pretty much stock SVR4, IIRC. SVR4 without any embellishments is no fun at all.
No wonder Microsoft makes you feel boxed in. It ties you to an inflexible system. It requires you to pay for expensive experts. It makes you struggle daily with a server environment that's more complex than ever.
That sounds a little more appropriate to me.
.cig - what you do after winning a good flame war
Of course TIMMAY doesnt mention that Slashdot is carrying racist ads like the IBM one that shows Mr. White Man (With Firewall written on his back) blocking Mr. Repressed Black Man!
A series of short shots of a number of people saying, "I believe in Unix." While this could include big companies which buy unix hardware, the add should also have these people: Jobs, McNeally, new guy at IBM, Linus. It'd be fun.
Why should I care? Geeks won't take MS that seriously if they love unix. We already know many good unices (freebsd, darwin, etc.) are free. We also know they're easy to manage your way thru. And if you're average Joe Schmoe on the street "unix" means exactly squat because you've never heard of or used it anyways. Personally it sounds like MS and Unisys are just wasting money.
While this may seem like a gotcha, remember the fact that this ad push isn't intended to make people switch from apache to iis, it is intended for high server performing data crunching.
If anything, the site running on FreeBSD could be spun as Microsoft knowing the advantages of unices, having used the variants themselves, and still believing their high-end servers are better for more serious tasks.
Whatever, just playing devil's advocate.
"Moving through the masses like a fish through water." syrup
Check out the MS Unisys site. Somebody netcraft'ed the site and they were running Unix. STill that sillly window and maze fooled me. Are people getting squeezed "In the Window and lost in the maze"? Oh well. UNIX/Linux is the way out (hell, with that maze, jumpboots would work :-)
Microsoft is just trying to show the public that there is competition in the Operating System market. Its sort of a reverse psychology, but think about it. They never have admitted on their commercials that there is anything else to use. By showing anti-unix commercials, they are saying to the public "You say there's no choice for operating systems? He's another choice, it sucks though."
Check out the "ecommunity" they want you to sign up for...
.jsp), no ASP/ASP.NET here...
1. it's using Java Server Pages (notice the
2. it's using IIS 4.0 on NT4....no W2K/IIS5....
This is entirely too funny.
Bugs Bunny was right.
"It ties you to an inflexible system"
Unix is an inflexible system? Let's see... it's totally modular (even more so in the case of Mach or the Hurd), Linux allows you to build literally any kind of system you want, and completely separates system from user processes to allow the kernel to be kept relatively small and tidy. Yup. That sounds *really* inflexible to me. Windows ties system and user processes together, ties the user to Microsoft programs for things as simple as text editing, has a registry system which invariably falls on it's face.. but it's flexible. That's really rich. Some Harvard MBA must've come up with this campaign.
...like a monkey if I had spent all that money with a Microsoft Certification right now:
//#include
"It [unix] requires you to pay for expensive experts" -- FIXME
I know this from dealing with them. It runs their whole business. It is even, as an earlier poster said, "an old Unix tied to a vendor". That makes me laugh...
we speak the way we breathe --Fugazi
I wonder if UNISYS is going to be replacing the QNX boxes they've given us for our NOAA weather ingest?
check out the flying boy ad. i have no idea if they are going to air this or not, it was shown at their brain share conference last week.
h om e_video.jsp
http://www.novellbrainshare.com/portal/content/
ugh. if the preview function is to be believed, there is likely to be a space between the m and e in "home" in the url. be aware of that when you cut and paste the url into your browser.
It requires you to pay for expensive experts.
And the other side of that coin is, "If you get an MCSE, we're busy telling your boss that you should work cheap." How long can they get away with screwing over the people who support their products?
Nope, no sig
That a Unix bashing site hosted by Microsoft/Unisys is actually running on a Unix box.
A HTTP HEAD reveals the following:
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:58:02 GMT
Server: Rapidsite/Apa-1.3.14 (Unix) FrontPage/4.0.4.3 mod_ssl/2.7.1 OpenSSL/0.9.5a
Last-Modified: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:52:25 GMT
ETag: "11f79ad-2595-3ca38289"
Accept-Ranges: bytes
Content-Length: 9621
Connection: close
Content-Type: text/html
$telnet www.wehavethewayout.com 80
Trying 198.63.57.204...
Connected to www.wehavethewayout.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
GET / HTTP/1.0
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Date: Fri, 29 Mar 2002 14:58:38 GMT
Server: Rapidsite/Apa-1.3.14 (Unix) FrontPage/4.0.4.3 mod_ssl/2.7.1 OpenSSL/0.9.
5a
Last-Modified: Thu, 28 Mar 2002 20:52:25 GMT
ETag: "11f79ad-2595-3ca38289"
Accept-Ranges: bytes
Content-Length: 9621
Connection: close
Content-Type: text/html
Windows sucks. I have 2 servers running currently. 1 is win2k the other is rh 7.2. My windows server requires daily checking for updates and security patches so I don't get hacked (again). I'm proud to say it has actually been up for 2 months (until yesterday). That is an all time record for any windows server I've worked with. The constant babying you have to do with windows on the server side is 1000 times more work than on the Unix side (I work with Windows, Solaris, HP-UX and Linux). I find Solaris and Linux to be my favorites. Now if Oracle were a little easier to use.
Anyone else remember when Microsoft had their own unix, Xenix?
How long before they start trashing Windows 3.1/95/98/ME/NT/2K/XP ?
I put on my robe and wizard hat.
Hardware manufacturer companies like SUN IBM HP SGI are the only ones up until now that I have known to produce a high end machine that needs an particular OS written by the same manufacturer. Now here is a company, UNISYS, producing a high end machine that seems to require a MS OS, or at least they are kind of saying that going out and dissin UNIX, why would they go and do that? They seem to have gone and done the same thing half ass, they produced a high end machine and didnt write the OS though the machine still needs a particular OS so they have to go out and partner with MS and get nasty and spend 25 million trying to convince people that somehow thier hardware is different than other propietray OS's and hardware even though there is an OS requirment for thier machine. They should save thier pennies, get Linux to boot on that beast or spend the 25 million on paying some people who can get linux to boot on that byatch. UNISYS, make friends ya know, you built a 32 processor machine thats already not selling and the best you can do is go out and spend more cash on FUD with MS? Wake up people, UNIX is the past and the future. 20 years of MS domination is just 20 years.
Bill Joy bashes Microsoft.
What did you expect? Ads from Ford promoting Chevy? Burger King touting Big Macs? Its business, and business is war. Get over it.
meh.
No wonder the life makes you feel boxed in. It ties you to an inflexible system. It requires you to pay for daily food. It makes you struggle daily with situations that's more complex than ever... Jonny Gun Shop - there is a way out!
Hey now they shouldn't be talking about Tru64 UNIX like that.
Just write a simple console app that dumps a bunch of backspaces. MS's pointer backs up until it no longer points to memory it has allocated. BSoD!
Link here.
Bring this little program to the meeting and ask the MS sales rep why this problem has not been fixed since it was discovered.
Remember, You are unique...just like everyone else.
...and he thinks his customers are too.
I want to be alone with the sandwich
Holdon a minit. You could also say:
c ertification.
"You get what you pay for and our organization (who shall remain anonymous) hired four MCSE's that ultimately cost us many times what a well-trained administrator familiar with MICROSOFT PRODUCTS would have cost us."
There really isn't anything Unix can do that Microsoft can't anymore...This is right up there with arguing Protestants vs. Catholics. (But THAT would have less religios fervor.)
A Paper MCSE is worth the same as a paper CNE or a paper whatever-the-heck-Redhat-was-calling-their-Linux-
"Draco dormiens nunquam titillandus."
Switching from Windows to Unix can be difficult but switching from Unix to Windows is impossible.
Yeah, and if you check out the article, they link to their site. www.wehavethewayout.com
Netcraft has some interesting things to say about that site:
Operating System and Web Server for www.wehavethewayout.com
The site www.wehavethewayout.com is running Rapidsite/Apa-1.3.14 (Unix) FrontPage/4.0.4.3 mod_ssl/2.7.1 OpenSSL/0.9.5a on FreeBSD
Common sense is not so common.
Maybe we can get some CGI animations of Tux doing the narration?
..noting some of the inherent weaknesses in MS products and point out the fact that mostly all modern services for the most part rely on unix systems?
You could start by showing ticketing systems, web servers, scientific computing, engineers hard at work on a complex design,... quick cuts with a cool fast paced music and a voiceover explaining what is happening..
..and then cut to a battleship in the water and show a computer inside the ship first showing a windows startup screen and then bluescreening(maybe with a flashing red "computer error" added for effect) with a sound of engines turning off and people running frantically around with a final voiceover: "would you want our nations future to depend on unsafe software and put our brave men in danger when fighting for our freedom.. choose right, choose the most trusted name in computing.. choose unix".
Yeah.. sounds corny, but it could be a powerful message if done right(not to imply that the above is "right").
Let's be honest and count the anti-microsoft ads around and then count the anti-unix ads around :) I think it would be childish to expect from Microsoft clean tactics. It's the goal of any company to wipe out competition after all. Just like the Unix world would love to wipe out windows.
OK, so you go to Cnet and read the story, then you follow the link to www.wehavethewayout.com to go to the home page for the MS/Unisys campaign. You stare at the image for a minute and then it hits you....
Did anyone else notice that the light shining through the window is originating inside the maze?
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
that just sounds like free promotion for linux if they are attacking unix on the cost side...
Isn't people switching from unix to linux for the very reason?
If people have already chosen unix, I'm sure they made up their minds about the scalability/power vs ease of use argument. I'm sure they already have the expert who knows unix who can handle linux if they ever need to switch.
+ I'm very sure the cost of changing from unix system to windoze would be much more than any of the issues raised.
Why would any marketing people spend money undermining unix, where the more logical and economical alternative is linux, not windoze???
do not in anyway underestimate anybody, especially yourself
This is a very dangerous strategy for Microsoft. Imagine that some PHB takes the ad seriously and starts checking to see what the costs are in their computing environment and what the "lock-in" issues are?
Gartner and other places will tell that PHB that Windows costs *more* than UNIX (licensing, support). And we all know about the "lock-in" of Windows software (*cough* Office, exchange, etc.) and file formats.
I think that anyone that does a serious analysis of the claims in the ad will come away with the opposite view than Microsoft wants them to have.
The article clearly makes Unisys the major player ($25mil to be exact), but the slashdot headline says only Microsoft and tries to make them out to the "big-bad-unix" killers.
You guys amaze me...your narrow mindedness is unbelievable.
Something in my dinner must have been spoiled last night, becasue this dream isn't even funny.
Microsoft, the monopolist, the Marquis de "lock-in", the ace of audits, the prince of product activation, the squire of "We don't need no stinkin' interoperability", is running ads warning IT shops about painting themselves into corner?
Damn!
At least the whine about expensive experts makes sense. Anybody dumb enough to buy this pitch is sure to feel uncomfortable around people who know what they're doing.
Nice business practices, MS.
Don't like MS, fine. But come on slashdot - GROW UP! This is business! These are largely subjective issues, and we know that MS will exaggerate every possible flaw with Unix systems. This strategy is nothing unique to MS. Leave America and stop supporting American businesses if you don't like it. Stop looking like brainless reactionary zealots. I'm telling you, the MS folks laugh when stories like this appear on slash. If you ever want to gain mindshare for Linux, you need get an open mind and stop appealing to the "bunch of hippies" stereotype. Try to look at things from the bigger picture. Unless these ads are illegal, we should've brushed this news off no different then the launch of a new Cheerios marketing campaign against "generic wanna be cheerios".
There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
Let's have a poll on this subject. Who can name the MS products that have produced the smallest revenue compared to the money that MS invested in development and marketing. Two of the biggest money pits at MS have been:
(1) Windows DataCenter. This product has thoroughly bombed. Last year it was rumored that only a couple dozen had made it out the door.
(2) MS BizTalk Server. Another "MS Enterprise" computing product that despite _immense_ marketing spend, is really sucking ass.
MS is doing this marketing campaign because their enterprise computing strategies have thus far fallen off a cliff. This is just more money thrown to the wind. People aren't buying MS enterprise computing product.
Oh, and give aways like IE don't count for this poll.
If Micro$oft is based it's opinions about *nix to Xenix
Then I really understand why they think it's very bad.
At least that's only *nix they "offically" know.
:-)
microsoft.customers-- /* already done */ /* done just now */
unisys.customers--
"There's only so much you can do with 15 IRQs."
So shoot me if this is off topic, but why is my nic under win2k as(s) reporting that the irq resides on number 203?
It appears that only Microsoft looks to the long run, because they nearly *always* make Microsoft products look like a good short-term decision.
I share your amazement that American business just hasn't managed to figure this out.
It's the same thing with adoption of Open Source. It seems more important to be able to play the blame game than to take matters into your own hands, and make sure your IT infrastructure stays up, though *you* might have to take some blame for an outage.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Both the Republican and Domocrat parties have announced their intention to run "anti-other-guy" ads during the upcoming election campaign process.
A spokesman for the Republican Party had this to say: "Microsoft is a well-known innovator, and the Republicans are going to follow their innowations and give them all the visible support we can. We're not sure how these "mud-slinging" ads will work, but hey, if Microsoft does it, it must be OK, right?"
Diane Feinstein issued this statement: "Fuck you! Fuck America! I piss on the Bill of Rights! What...Anti-Opponent Ads? Oh, yeah, well, we just want to point out how the Republicans are not as sensitive as we are to modern day issues. If you'd like more information, send your check to..."
--
"Outlook not so good." That magic 8-ball knows everything! I'll ask about Exchange Server next.
I love this quote:
Sun responded to the campaign in a statement. "Sun still does not see Microsoft as a real threat in the datacenter market where reliability, availability, serviceability and security are key," the company said. "As for Unix being 'inflexible,' 'expensive,' and 'complex,' we feel those are terms much better suited to the closed and proprietary world of Windows."
Like Solaris never had security holes, their source code is widely available for anyone to download, and their systems are made from standardized and off-the-self hardware components that don't cost a lot to replace. Oh yeah, and Solaris doesn't cost a lot, either.
sorta funny that there's nothing listed below "not vulnerable"...
t em .pl?section=discussion&id=4371
http://online.securityfocus.com/cgi-bin/vulns-i
Microsoft makes all it's money from businesses by using their sales people to convince technologically-illiterate purchasing agents, CFOs, and CEOs that their software has a lower TCO. They're just teaching Unisys (of gif LWZ patent fame) some of their tricks. No serious enterprise runs Windows on their servers. I mean, have you ever seen a bank running Windows 2000 Datacenter? Get real Billy Boy and Stevie Bomber and stick to your Barney-ish workstations.
"As flies to the wanton boys are we to the gods; they kill us for sport." - William Shakespeare, King Lear
Note.. they are going after Unix, not Linux.
I guess they know who they should really be threatened by.
Go ahead! Mod this one down!
It ties you to an inflexible system.
I know you are but what am I?
It requires you to pay for expensive experts.
I know you are but what am I?
It makes you struggle daily with a server environment that's more complex than ever
I know you are but what am I?
Beware of the media.
The ad targets Linux too. They hit upon the system's "complexity" and the need to hire "expensive experts". Think about it: Windows, more than any other server OS, can give a perception of user-friendliness. Look at the sysadmin tools on your typical Red Hat distro: we're still working with stone knives and bear skins. I am saying this as a long-time Red Hat user.
This may not improve much. Companies like Red Hat, MySQL AB and Sendmail Inc sell support for essentially free products. There is a certain incentive there to maintain some complexity so they can continue to sell support. Counter-arguments need to be marshalled on the ease of use issue, not to mention real solutions.
I'm thinking of something similar to those car ads where owner one keeps asking owner two if the model he has, has same features.
They could have a purple Mercedes or some other obviously nice quality vehicle. standing next to a Yugo with all the body panels and doors in mismatched Microsoft colors. Even just a picture of the two vehicles in profile, side by side, with the line "which one would you want?"
for the extra twist of the knife the drivers in the Yugo can squeel that "you don't have to know what you're doing when you own one of these".
Heck I right now freely give Sun the permission to use this idea. No Cost. No such permission is granted to anyone promoting Microsoft.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Every day I like *nix/*nux more and M$ less, but I would have given them the undeserved respect not to suspect that they would stoop to the level of bashing (not to be confused with BASH-ing)
How low can you go? C'mon!
Does anyone out there (1) have a lot of money (2) want to put it toward *nix/*nux ads?
"I must go quickly and convert all of my computer friends to open source, while there is still time!" --The Ixe
Sigs pose an operational security risk and help the baddies aggregate data. I guess commenting does too, oops.
Okay, so...I submitted this story yesterday with twice the linkage, and got shot down. Does SlashDot actually have a standard they adhere to, or do all new submissions go on a dart board?
For the last 8 years, from a advertising POV, UNIX has been considered dead. Most 'small' computer shops (they sold NOVELL for years, now just Microsoft) had bought hook, line and sinker the Microsoft Mantra about the death of UNIX.
How many remember HP's announcements of 1994-95 that they were not going to do alot of development on HP-UX, but instead focus on NT?
What would be NICE is if the "This is a Linux program" software authors saw themselfs as UNIX coders - but rather than 'a rising tide floating all boats' you have press releases from (defunct) companies like Progeny Linux saying 'we are better because we are not unix.'
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
Darn it! I guess I cannot live with my OS X now since its inflexible and requires an army of experts for me to complete tasks. And I just bought the thing.
"I don't think it's selfish, to eat defenseless shellfish." -NOFX
Oh how the memories are short lived
:
"Better UNIX than UNIX" anyone?
while trying to find a good attribution for this Bill Gates quote reputedly at an expo I found this little gem
http://www.adt.ru/~las/antims/UnixExpo/
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
I wish it were possible to mod up past 5, this information deserves to be on the top.
This is what sells product in todays world, not quality.
If companies have the funds to properly market they can sell the masses most anything..
Remember the pet rock?
Doesnt mean they are better, but if they push us out into oblivion, its sort of academic?
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Fucking assholes! I'm sick of them. Can't they ever keep their big mouth shut? M$ can't even tell the truth about it's products in court, they have to make fake video-taped evidence. I'm willing to cut off my nose to spite the big fat face and I think many consumers are. But I don't think it's enough. I think it's going to take a consumer revolution to stop them. And This poor image they continue to make for themselves of lying, whining, complaining, and making excuses, is supposed to help them in what way?! That m$ is sure run by some stupid individuals.
MS is trying to win converts by saying Unix "ties you to an inflexible system", "requires you to pay for expensive experts", and "makes you struggle daily with a server environment that's more complex than ever."? Dudes, wake up and smell the irony!
This is a lot like President Dubya complaining that the elections in Zimbabwe were questionable...
cotodoso
Well, atleast they are aiming for reliability in something they do... Sent them a msg. inquiring into why they run netbsd and apache. I wonder if they will ever respond.
---------
Where are we going and why are we in this handbasket?
I work for Unisys doing Unix/Linux development on the ES7000. Unisys has long sold UnixWare on the ES7000.
who ever said unix should be super easy to use anyways?
like it or not, sysadmin etc. work is skilled labor and no matter how pretty a gui you put on it doesn't mean it requires any less intelligence to do.
the difficulty in using unix is in learning the concepts, because if you understand the underlying concepts then the interface ceases to matter so much.
MS is trying to sell pretty buttons as a replacement for computer science.
The ad in the article sounds exactly like Microsoft, with their 200+ per hour tech support and closed-source systems. Perhaps UNIX looks harder, but it's just as hard to get a Microsoft system to run DECENT as it is to get a UNIX system to run FANTASTIC.
sir_haxalot
stuff |
Unix is dead. Linux, on the other hand, isn't unix.
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
Wait. What?
Oh, Unix.
Well, if that's the case, screw Gates and his flying monkeys.
I can't believe anyone actually took you seriously.
When the average consumer sees this ad, they'll say, "what's unix?", and probably think of neutered people. I'm glad that Microsoft has the way out... I don't want to lose my sexuality.
- passion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
In a way, long duration space probes do work like that. If some RAM in one these probes goes bad, then the software in the probe marks it and uses other memory. Come to think of it, there is a BADRAM patch for the Linux kernel but I wouldn't use a thing like that unless it emailed me that it had to map out some RAM. For that matter, Big Iron tends to be massively redundant and rarely goes down all at once. You can repair the parts that are bad while the parts that are good have a higher load for awhile. That is a large part of why the Big Iron costs so much.
Advertising is very powerful. The effect of this advertising will be to more firmly establish in reader's minds that Microsoft people are liars.
Bush's education improvements were
word takes up 0% CPU on my box. Only csrss.exe takes up any time (and the print server if that bug is running). So all your CPU can be spent in Mathematica. And windows graphics drivers use the hardware, so you don't spend all your CPU on that horrible X windows crap.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I'm sure I'll be flamed half-way to hell (or adequacy.org, whichever's closer..I have a feeling they're on the same street) for saying so, but how is this news exactly? A company promotes its product as being better than that of other companies..big deal. That's what companies do; perhaps not so directly, but even if Microsoft attacks Unix servers directly, it's their right to do so. There's no law that says you can't promote your product as being the best, whether it's true or not. I fail to see how this should even be a news item, except for the whole anti-Windows slant that seems to stain Slashdot's reputation (big hint to all the "W1nd0wz is 4 1users" posters - people outside Slashdot, even other news sites, are laughing at how ridiculous some of you sound).
Maybe MS thinks it can only compete against decade old masscomp, apollo, or other boxes.
:). Linux (and Mac
But I can see why they won't say "Linux"
1. Linux is flexible. It runs on everything from Tivos through mainframes.
2. Experts are available on newsgroups or IRC for free with possible delay, and each part is documented with plenty of howtos.
3. Windows is one huge complex blob. Their "Pocket guide" to W2K Systems administration is larger than most epic novels. You apparently need wide as well as deep pockets
OS X! and other BSDies) are componentized. Upgrading or completely changing the mail system doesn't require even one reboot, nor affects anything else. Any apparent complexity in Linux/BSD/etc is only because of the many parts, each of which is independent. Windows (the browser is part of the operating system) is worse because it is only one part - were it a car, the battery and transmission would be welded to the engine.
Finally, Unisys seems to have some very cool big-iron hardware. And it is even x86 based. Unisys could port Linux and probably have a very cool enterprise server. But instead they want to tout Windows (how much is Microsoft paying them? Is their balance sheet that bad so they would be a good short candidate).
Unisys - the power of two: Bill Gates and the CEO of Unisys.
Linux - the power of hundreds of thousands: on the internet.
Without going into too much detail...
Where I work we have Win2k clients in more then 400 locations attached to DSL/Cable/Sat connections. Before they search our resources they do a simple ping to test connectivity. Win2k has a bug in ICMP (how does someone fsck that up?) that will make it randomly fail ping where a UNIX box pings like a champ. This has damaged our quality of service and its been like that for over a year.
It took a UNIX geek (me) and a guy who coded a ping app for windows from scratch (requires reg hack for low lever user rights to a raw socket) to find this bug. I've maxxed out thus far at 70k a year at a previous employer.
Yea, you really do get what you paid for, I hate Windows.
...but here are 47 close-reasoned pages on why you are wrong. I can't stop myself you said something bad about Linux!!!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
It is due to looking at the long run that we have had continuous copyright extensions.
I've always thought it bizaare that a corporation, memeplex, chain of establishments, whatever, gets treated legally just like a person. Yet their motivations are so often different.
Then there's the question of who to penalise, and how, with all these slippery bits merging, renaming, and filing for ch. 11...
Since making innovative, competitive products is no longer on Microsoft's list of priorities - if indeed it ever was - does this sort of lowball crap really surprise anyone?
The trouble with practical jokes is that very often they get elected. -- Will Rogers
Microsoft is more flexible? HA!!! That's the last thing Microsoft technology is. They don't want to be compatible with anybody because they want to write all software on the planet earth. They have an MS sanctified archetecture to meet your needs that was carefully designed to lock you in tight so they can pick your pockets later. At that point you will find that it is better to adjust your business needs to fit their product line than try to go against the will of your new masters in redmond. You will need a ton of Microsoft experts to iron out all the querks in the various MS products you use. Each will prbably have to specialize, and will be unable to learn anything not blended into pap and fed to them through an MSCE straw. They will not be flexible. They en masse will not be cheap. Unix and especially Linux is a doublejointed circus acrobat by comparison. You are not forced into any archetecture, and everything is designed as flexible components that you can use to meet your needs. With Linux, nobody is trying to pick your pockets. By the time someone has become a Unix expert, they have probably had to solve many problems by doing independent research, and will not be thown by something unexpected and new. They are probably not certified, but they know their stuff. They have been off the pap since college or earlier and can swallow new skillsets with their regular diet of raw buffalo meat.
Eat at Joe's.
I'm an RHCE and have been an MCSE for about 8 years...well before the current flood of paper MCSEs using nothing but Transcenders to pass.
I took the RHCE last year and I was the only one out of 8 not to have taken the classes for it. There were several people there taking it for their 2nd or 3rd time. Bottom line, yes, it's a good lab exam but I could write up a study guide for it and have someone pass it in 2 weeks. That's exactly what will happen when the certification becomes valuable in the marketplace. It's not Microsoft's fault that a lot of MCSEs are clueless. It's the people writing get rich quick study guides and "sample" exams.
Now my disclaimer... I've written several study guides. One for the Linux LPIC and several MCSE tests. I write for the material and knowing that material well will get you through the exam. It annoys me to no end to see study guides that write just for the exam. It hurts everyone.
If you hire a MCSE because 'they are cheap' then you'll get what you deserve... I, for example, am a well qualified MCSE, but I don't come cheap.
Kind thoughts do not change the world
Only a Microsoft employee would put (TM) after each time they type Windows
If patches are released weekly, then shouldn't you be patching your servers that often? Even if you test the patches on another server for a week, you're still doing it weekly, right?
Are your servers patched?
What's your company's name? Server IPs?
A great many people think they are thinking when they are merely rearranging their prejudices. -- William James
I think MS is aiming this campaign on the suits who make purchasing decisions -- people for whom The Server is something on another floor or in another building that they've never even seen. These guys aren't even going to contemplate maintaining any server themselves, but they might think, "Hey, we can get rid of the $80,000 a year Unix guy and hire someone for $30,000 a year, because Windows is so easy to use."
I honestly don't know if Microsoft thinks, or even cares, that their product is superior. They're just trying to move into a new market. They know that sales of new workstation PC's (their mainstay) is slowing, so they're looking for other ways to make money. It's the same thinking that's behind the the upgrade-every-year licensing.
As my sysAdmin puts it:
1
Security = -------------------
Convenience
There is just no such thing as a secure Windows box. Well, I take that back... Unplug it.
While you are at Netcraft also check out the info on uptime. Last time I checked M$ was not listed as running on any of the top 50 servers in order of longest uptime.
Because Cavaliers outsell Bentleys. The proper response to Microsoft is not Solaris on Sparc - this is a dead platform soon to enter an SGI-like state. The proper response is an open, effective and cheaper solution (guess).
Microsoft hyping Unix as a money trap?? I make my living as as MS-oriented web developer, and I still find their licensing models absurd. As is no surprise to peeps on /., MS calling anything a money trap is the proverbial pot calling the kettle black. Quick recent anecdote: my employer is looking to update their database from Oracle 5/6, or some version that was pre-RDMS...... the Powers-That-Be are hesitant to shell out $1m+ for an Oracle license, and SQL Server might have been our database of choice, except that it doesn't run on our VMS machine. And since the hardware has been rock-solid, we're loathe to adapt such a patch-happy OS (Windows 2000 Adv. Server). Maybe if MS didn't own the market, they might be inclined to make their apps more portable across OS's. But there's the money trap for you - as good as many of their applications are, they're all interlocking. Where Microsoft is concerned, it's impossible to take the "best-of-breed", where software and hardware are concerned. IMO, this marketing scheme is merely a campaign against common sense.... or at least, technicaly savvy.
Oh, and I don't claim to know a damned thing about the *nix flavor of OS's, but how the hell can Microsoft badmouth Unix?! It's been around since forever, I rarely hear *nix admins complain about stability or security issues / flaws........ rather amusing, methinks. As far as the "expensive experts" go, somebody already said it -- just because a person is MS-certified doesn't mean he's worth a red cent. In college, I always tested rather poorly, compared with the quality of material I wrote in CS labs or independent projects. As such, the material I developed when not under duress was always a poor indication of my knowledge of the subject matter. On the flip side, ALL (5 so far) of my previous employers have told me that the person I was replacing was MS-certified (I'm not yet, but I have 4+ yrs _experience_), but couldn't work independently, cranked out shoddy code (which I have to rewrite now anyway) and was a pain in the ass to deal with in terms of basic communications skills! And these guys were billing out at $30-$50/hr!!
As with all things, I have no problem spending money, as long as it's WELL SPENT. Developing and maintaining scalable, stable, complex business applications / systems will always be an expensive endeavor, as a lot of resources and effort are require to run such an operation. But you're throwing your money away if you think that hiring people with exorbitant rates, fluffy resumes, stamped certifications and even college degrees is the same as hiring talented, diligent, knowledgable individuals. One of my best friends dropped out of college to code, and despite the fact that I have a background/degree/honors in CS and have exactly the same amount of work experience has him, he's still every bit as good as I am as a developer.
I don't know what you are talking about. As long as the Gnu toolchain is installed, Linux apps normally
port prefectly well to other Unixes. The least compliant unix variant to port from is OS X. I've never needed to do more than install the requirements for the program, and edit aclocal.m4
before running autoheader;aclocal;autoconf;automake.
The very first slide crows about the large extent "Non-IT" people have in the selection of strategic IT purchases.
It's clear that Microsoft and Unisys are targeting clueless management types rather than IT types with their ads. Any counter-campaign must likewise target management.
Let's have a close look at the costs involved when running a Linux system.
An important factor in Linux' cost is its maintenance. Linux requires a *lot* of maintenance, work doable only by the relatively few high-paid Linux administrators that put themselves - of course willingly - at a great place in the market. Linux seems to be needing maintenance continuously, to keep it from breaking down.
Add to this the cost of loss of data. Linux' native file system, EXT2FS, is known to lose data like a firehose spouts water when the file system isn't unmounted properly. Other unix file systems are much more tolerant towards unexpected crashes. An example is the FreeBSD file system, which with soft updates enabled, performance-wise blows EXT2FS out of the water, and doesn't have the negative drawback of extreme data loss in case of a system breakdown.
According to Linux advocates, an alternative to EXT2FS would be ReiserFS. Unfortunately, ReiserFS is still in beta stage. This means it is not intended for production use (although according to many Linux advocates this shouldn't be a problem, which makes me wonder how (little) valuable they find your data).
The other proposed 'solution', EXT3FS, is nothing more than an ugly hack to put journaling into the file system. All the drawbacks of the ancient EXT2FS file system remain in EXT3FS, for the sake of 'forward- and backward compatibility'. This is interesting, considering that the DOS heritage in the Windows 9x/ME series was considered a very bad thing by the Linux community, even though it provided what could be called one of the best examples of compatibility, ever. When it's about Linux, compatibility constraints don't seem to be that much of a problem for Linux advocates.
Back to Linux' cost. Factor in also the fact that crashes happen much more often on Linux than on other unices. On other unices, crashes usually are caused by external sources like power outages. Crashes in Linux are a regular thing, and nobody seems to know what causes them, internally. Linux advocates try to hide this fact by denying crashes ever happen. Instead, they have frequent "hardware problems".
The steep learning curve compared to about any other operating system out there is a major factor in Linux' cost. The system is a mix of features from all kinds of unices, but not one of them is implemented right. A Linux user has to live with badly coded tools which have low performance, mangle data seemingly at random and are not in line with their specification. On top of that a lot of them spit out the most childish and unprofessional messages, indicating that they were created by 14-year olds with too much time, no talent and a bad attitude.
I could go on and on and on, but the conclusion is clear. Linux is not an option for any one who seeks a professional OS with high performance, scalability, stability, adherence to standards, etc.
If you're going to repeat that old crap, make sure you get it right. Linux(tm) is not Unix(tm), because nobody has felt any need to pay for Unix(tm) certification for any Linux(tm) system.
The "Unix(tm)" name is now nothing more than marketing Jedi mind tricks. Do you insist your mouthwash contain T<sub>2</sub>5(tm) (otherwise known as water)? Of course not - for the stuff that really matters, all are pretty much the same. Ditto, what's important isn't the Unix(tm) label, it's compliance with POSIX standards.
If you get deep into the implementation details, it's true that Linux didn't fork from the original Unix source tree and like any "clean-room" implementation there are some significant differences. BFD. As long as the system stays close enough to the POSIX standards it's a moot point to everyone but kernel developers and marketing droids.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
Isn't Unisys the company who patented GIFs *after* they were in common use?
What a retarded company!
Last time I checked UnixXP didn't come with a lease-like license and report all the apps i have installed to a third party. What does M$ think it's accomplishing with this?
perlgolf: the only place where shorter is better
...aren't slashdot writers/readers/comments posters acting just the same way, when they write dayly articles and comments, flaming microsoft software ? even if nobody pays for ad-campains telling that 'windows costs money', it's written everywhere on OSDN'ish sites. accept being flamed, men...because I think it's only the beginning.
____
nico
Nico-Live
"One World, One Web, One Program" -Microsoft Promotional Ad
"Ein Reich, Ein Volk, Ein Fuhrer" -Adolf Hitler
...be appearing on the "free" version of Slashdot?
...ow! ow! Why is everyone hitting me?
You're using her as bait, Master!
...to be the 4,374th person to say...
ROFL!!!!
The thing that riles me about this the most, is that Microsoft is such a hypocrite. They try and advertise Windows as a replacement for UNIX, yet the points they draw upon are even MORE obvious in a Windows based environment. Let me try, if I can, to explain myself..
"They are apparently hyping that Unix is an expensive money trap."
I got my copy of IRIX for free from SGI, simply by giving them my workstation MAC address - I didnt have to pay for postage or anything, yet the following day IRIX 6.5 and the most recent updates appeared on my desk, 'courtesy of SGI'. I also believe that Sun offer Solaris 8 for free on both SPARC and x86 platforms - you can either download the ISO's or pay for postage to get the full box set (and you get a LOT for your money).
"No wonder Unix makes you feel boxed in. It ties you to an inflexible system."
Er - Unix is about the most flexible system I have ever known.. use it as a Firewall, Router, SQL server, Web server, Windows Domain Controller, NetWare Server, LDAP server.. even a COFFEE machine for heavens sake.. its all possible on UNIX. To get any kind of flexibility out of Windows, you have to keep forking $$$'s over to Bill & his buddies.
"It requires you to pay for expensive experts."
Oh - so that smarmy prick we have to keep getting down from , at a cost of £1000 per day ($1300'ish), to do work on our NT based Finance server, is not expensive? Purlease....
"It makes you struggle daily with a server environment that's more complex than ever."
Oh - so Windows has got easier to use. Let me put it this way.. I learn what I do by experimenting. Install it, read about it, play around with it.. I managed to do this for a number of UNIX based applications & daemons - indeed for UNIX itself. Yet has anyone ever tried configuring a Windows 2000 Active Directory server, or tried installing their crappy ISA2000 server? Jesus - talk about overkill.. their old MS Proxy software was a doddle compared to their new generation.. nasty nasty.
Screw you Microsoft.. I hope you get screwed up the ass in court.. you and your little dog too.
"Hey! Unless this is a nude love-in, get the hell off my property!!"
Find a compact car someplace, and paint it all in mismatched panel colors using the Microsoft Color scheme. Stick a Microsoft Logo or Name plate back of the car.
Make sure the car is an older car. Drive it around Town. Everytime people see the car they think of MS. Everytime they think of MS, they see the car. I bet it would even make the Newspapers.
Guerilla marketing against MS at it's best.
Of Course, there would have to be a webpage dedicated to the MS Car Project.
The proper response is an open, effective and cheaper solution (guess).
Of course we would prefer to promote Linux. But why not help nail MS at the same time?
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
What is the good of posting this bit of "news"? It will only serve to get people all riled up about how awful MS is as a company. Just how many "but with Microsoft you are even more boxed in and trapped" comments are going to show up?
/. lots of hits on this story.
Without a call to action regarding how we can un-FUD what MS feeds the media this will only serve to give
Had one of those ads appeared I would think this was posted just to get a lot of hits on an ad page. Maybe it's just proof-of-concept so that more ads get sold.
Having said that, I'm not helping by just complaining here that no one does anything.
Where's my call to action?
And for the record, I'm no fan of MS and this is not a pro-MS post.
Just pointing out that we could be doing more.
But I suppose this is "offtopic" now isn't it?
r.
Just because something is free does not mean you have to take it.
In my opinion, Microsoft and Gates are using the same cookbook that Hitler used at the turn of the
last century. It begins like this.
1) Using scare tactics and FUD you create a hysteria that seemingly has a simple resolution.
2) The way out is to blame all on whoever stands in the way of your ambitions for world domination
3) The propaganda machine is engaged and soon
the denial of existence of anyone that is different, decent, honest, and better, becomes the cry of the day.
4) What follows could be read about in most honest history books.
As Google says, " you can make money without being evil ". I'd add, that you have to be really good at what you are doing.
Just as a quick FYI, Marathon (marathoncomputer.com) makes rack cases that mount G4s nicely. You can pull the guts straight out of a G4 tower and drop them into the rack case. I'm transferring a system on the workbench behind me right now.
-Cybrex
Boundless Expansion, Self-Transformation, Dynamic Optimism, Intelligent Technology, Spontaneous Order- BEST DO IT SO!
Just after submitting my comment the story loaded up with a big ol' ad for IBM.
Things that make you go 'hmmmm.'
r.
Just because something is free does not mean you have to take it.
Maybe it is really a Windows 2000 server and they are just spoofing the server return strings, in anticipationg of the slashdot crowd's superficial testing of their website. Remember Unisys has a very long embedded history with the military.
That's what you get for selling out your heritage. Sold your soul to the dark lord. Shame on you.
Russian Russian Russian RussianDollSig DollSig DollSig DollSig
That is it! The perfect commercial against windows (xp in general). Recreate the environment where all those XP retards are flying around. Then when a BSOD happens they all fall to the ground and wake up to the reality!
$ nmap -0 www.wehavethewayout.com
I think someone should publish competing ads.
Call comes in to computer room. "Servers are down, what's wrong". Someone runs to back room, where two monkies are grooming each other. Screams at them "get back to work". Monkies run into computer room, pushing reset buttons on blue-screen boxed (with a treat dropping down for each reset).
Fade out: Buy Microsoft, so your IT department can be run by monkies too.
./, charge them the earth!!
... w2k is "built on NT technology", so also is somehow unix... then, what MS is fighting?
uh huh
Wait a minute, doesn't Microsoft still use FreeBSD to run Hotmail.
Damn RealOne indeed. That RealOne crap takes over your machine, doesnt let you disable SmartCenter, and doesnt let you disable their gay little ads that popup everytime you start up. What's worse, I have an old version of RealPlayer installed, and in the past couple of months every piece of content I try to play just pops up a window telling me to upgrade to RealOne.
Thanks a ton Real. I cant wait to watch PressPlay fail miserably like all your other horrible products.
Scene: Man teetering on an open window ledge, high up on a skyscraper, looking down at the parking lot, several hundred feet below.
Caption: Yes, Microsoft would be happy to show you "The Way Out," but are you really sure you want to take it?
Your Servant, B. Baggins
We have two of these es7000 systems here at work. Nice machines, very fast. And we run Unix on them.
Its funny they poke fun at expensive experts. At least with UNIX you have experts out there that you can hire who WILL solve your problems. Most of the MCSE's I know were psych majors in college who were sitting on the couch drinking beer one day when they realized computer people make more money so they went and took a class. These people might as well use their certificates to wipe their asses, because thats about all they are good for. And by the way, if NT guys are cheaper and you need 1 for ever 3 servers it isn't any cheaper when 1 good UNIX guy can admin 100s of boxes.
Their web site main page image seems to suggest the way out is to go throught the window... like burglars, eh?
No, [pauses] more like 24 month uptime.
Just change the word in their noize from Unix to Microsoft and it fits them!
UNIX is dead! Long live the POSIX!!
Heck, GNU's been bashing UNIX for years by its very name. Doesn't bother me any if M$ bashes proprietary commercial unixes. Linux and *BSD are the future anyways.
How about have the Linux machine have an uptime of 498 days?
:(
Oh wait, that isn't possible, the jiffies roll over and the uptime goes to zero on day 497.
(It is even worse when you change HZ to 1000, then you only have 49.7 days - like old versions of Windows)
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
So what do you call a Microsoft OS ?
I wouldn't describe this as the pot calling the kettle black. I would say it is more of the black hole calling the salmon colored universe black.
Obviously the entire computer system marketing industry has become corrupted by "big money" and needs to be reformed immediately. Too many companies are choosing to install such-and-such a system just because they have the biggest advertising budget and the little guy has no say in the matter. To this end, I suggest we eleminate all 'hard money' from system advertising (no referances to specific vendors allowed), especially with 90 days of a large company making a purchsing decision, but allow limited amounts of 'soft money', that is, adverts that advocate competing styles of computing such as command line, gui, client/server vs standalone, etc.
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Get deep enough into either OS and you'll find they're pretty interchangable.
While 2K and now .NET are getting more UNIX-like as time goes on, they really *aren't* interchangeable. For example, even though I am MS certified, I would strongly advise a company against setting up their Internet presence using IIS. Outsource it, baby. Let someone else have the headaches. Besides, do you really want to have those downtimes for patching, patching, patching?
Windows 2K shines as a departmental-level thing, not as a full-enterprise solution. However, Samba is getting so much better with each release that maybe more 2K Server boxen can be replaced with Linux boxen running Samba. I think that's why MS is really scared.
When the labs in your MOC don't work because of arcane Active Directory crap, then you know that something is very, very wrong. There is a reason why most NT4 shops aren't upgrading. There is a reason why there are lots of 2K networks not deploying AD. When Samba v3 does "AD" better than MS does (with REAL versions of LDAP and Kerberos 5 and DynamicDNS, not the neutered, embraced and extended MS versions) MS knows that its goose will be thoroughly cooked and force-fed to them.
However, there is one thing MS excels in that Linux needs to improve...the desktop. You install 2K Pro and *everything works as expected*. Sure, you have to patch and patch and patch but dammit, it runs out of the box. My Linux desktop experiences have been like rolling the dice...sometimes you get all 7s, sometimes you get hit with Snake Eyes. And you really do have to be a Linux guru to sort things out when something doesn't quite work after installation. This is where Linux people should be focusing their attention. When Linux+KDE *just works* and installs with no *special surprises* we can think of challenging MS at the desktop.
Needless to say, THIS year will be spent getting a lot of experience with Linux.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
make Linux, not Microsoft. sin(beast) = -0.809016994374947424102293417182819
It could be more than a little alienating to their readership of unwashed, uneduated unix zealots !
"For all practical purposes, Windows is dead.
Fact: Windows is dead"
I don't agree with you. First off, what is there to replace Windows on all the millions of machines out there? Certainly not Linux. It will be at least a year or two before Linux can do, for the un-initiated new user, what Windows does for you.
I agree that MS will likely get bumped out of the Server Market. The reason for that is a server doesn't need programs like.... Outlook Express? Or 'Virus Propogater' as we call it around here.
In any case, Windows is far from dead. If somebody can take Linux and give it most of the good points that Windows has (ease of installation, better compatibility, GUI amdinistration instead of relying solely on command line...), then MS should feel quite threatened.
"Derp de derp."
Linux doesn't have a BSOD because Microsoft has a patent on it.
Just because it CAN be done, doesn't mean it should!
...please, give all you can. Donations of anywhere from $10 to $20 or even $500 are accepted. Operators are standing by.
The paper that leaked last autumn from Microsoft mentionning that was saying that the sales rep had to find every proprietary Unix boxs at their custommers data centers and have them to be replaced by Windows boxes? I guess it just didnt work and that's why they are launching such a campain. My 2...
Tech support is great, no better way to make people feel inferior!
Sigh...Burroughs came up with some excellent designs for their time (the B5000 and its descendants, the B1700). I'm extremely depressed to think that they have come to this.
..would've been more appropriate for Linux than the monstrosity called Windows 95. Sadly M$ beat us to it! ;-)
Learn from the mistakes of others. There isn't enough time to make them all yourself.
I remember some IBM banner adds i saw a couple of years ago, they went something like this:
picture of the sun(not computer, big firey thingy in the sky..)
"Its a well know fact that the sun will fail one day.."
and then banner fades to a nifty IBM server, and some advertising text.
I never been the big IBM fan(nor Sun fan for that matter), but this made me dislike them with a vengence. If the best way to advitising your product is to throw poop after other products on the market, then you cant have much of a product to promote.
And this is ofcource the expected behavior of M$, they seem to feel that the best way to promote their products is to bash/hurt the other products on the market as much as possible.
Like them getting Sony kicked off Cebit, how low can you go. If i've ever wanted a XBOX, that would change my mind for sure. Think about it, if their show lineup is so weak they can afford Sony to be there. Then, once again, they cant have much of a product to promote.
If you ever read the book World War 3.0 A microsoft executive used the word "jihad" in an e-mail to describe what they were doing.
Okay, I reproduced it. Simplicity itself, actually.
Just run the irdaping command provided by your favorite Linux distro while there's a Win2K system in range. Whatever it sends so horribly confuses the irda.sys program in Win2K that it crashes the whole system.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
it's just such a nice colour of purple though ;-)
almost wants me to go out and buy a m$ product, but i'm sure i'd end up seeing red preatty soon after the price tag.
But seriously this is an example of why our current capatilist society does not work, there is no responsiblity behind the ads. As you can easily see, m$ is not portraying their product very openly. My point being, our society encourages people to buy alot of crap. Mind you this does help drive our economy further, but i don't think it is sustainable.
The only valid point that the add brings to light is m$ has a lot of cheap work force available (through their m$ certification program), and that purple is a nice colour.
But like in everything, you pay for what you get. If you hire a cheap m$ cert. then you will probably get a crappy server. If you spend the big bucks for some iron clad *nix type server and admin, your probably going to get a much more stable and versitile computing environment. But linux is starting to bring in the best of both worlds, (being cheap certs. and experienced administrators), with linux+, LPI, and RHCE.
my 2 cents.
warren peace
ps. since the purple is a spoof on the sun purple, may as well get the real colour
=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=
Daniel
http://people.cinn.ca/daniel/
(* Because their investors, which generally include the upper management, don't intend to hold onto their stock for the long run. They want to make a quick buck selling it, or recover a quick profit from destroying the company. *)
Actually, investment theory DIScourages the long-term look. "A buck today is worth more than a buck tommarow" the adage goes.
If you think that investment theory does not apply to computers (but everything else only), then write up a good paper and win a Nobel in Economics.
Until then, investment theory is the guiding principle, for good or bad.
Table-ized A.I.
"All your servers are belong to us"
Fabio - Sumare/Sao Paulo/Brazil/South America/Earth/Solar System/Milky Way/Universe
http://www.morroida.com.br
Are they serious! This is hilarious. They start a campaign that talks about how bad linux is but they rely on linux to get the message out. Check out what the site related to this campaign is running: We Have the Way Out Server. Boy these guys just don't think.
I wanted to get my MCSE (MineSweeper Consultant, Solitarie Expert), but I sucked at MineSweeper..(Micro$oft should rename minsweeper to BSOD sweeper, hit a mine and "boom", BSOD..
Do I want 1 MCSE's that will take 10$ an hour that takes 10 hours fix the mail server? Or do I want 1 Unix consultant who takes $100 an hour and fixes the mail server in one hour?
"It requires you to pay for expensive experts."
As opposed to the community college grads with their mail-order MCSE certifications.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
In short retort:
It's all about the fear, uncertainty, and doubt, and Microsoft's firm belief that the decision makers in a company are the ones in air so rarified as to know little enough about technology to be brought in to Microsoft's folds by this bunch of crap.
Kevin Fox
How come a company which is ostensibly trying to distance itself from UNIX chose a name for itself which sounds like a UNIX clone? 2 possible scenarios: 1. Hoping for a spelling error on the order form since not targeting "experts". 2.Get me a machine with that system everyone uses ... you know, UNI-sys or something like that.unisys
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.
... here's the way to kill off Unix:
...
... if they support Unix we inflict financial pain on them. We also make applications and we are never going to make applications for Unix nor will we ever include Unix and mixed platform training in our certification programs. We own the future and our future does not include Unix. If you are not with us you are against us. Terrorists use Unix and we don't. We are an American corporation and not an un-American, piracy supporting, hacker terrorist, old-fashioned and expensive foreign command line corporation. And in conclusion:
"Unix is old and unreliable. If you can find a high-priced Unix expert to maintain your system you're in luck because thanks to our efforst there are practically *no Unix experts left*. Everyone has become expert in the low cost reliable and new systems offered by Microsoft. Have you ever seen an MCSE who konws anything about Unix?? Is there a USCE - no there isn't. And which is newer and has more graphics and buttons and stuff an MCSE manual or Unix expert manual? We rest our case
We make server OSes and dominate several large hardware makers
YOU ARE EITHER FOR US OR AGAINST US (AND AGAINST AMERICA AND FREEDOM). Oh yeah we are monopolists and we have decided Unix is dead - what more evidence do you need that it *is* dead?"
Thank you.
So Unix is inflexible. I take that to mean that Microsoft's products are incredibly flexible. So they'd have no problem disassociating Internet Explorer and all the other "value added" software, and releasing a lite version of Windows, right?
Right?
Hello?
SIGFEH
Interesting story about BOB. You every wonder where you got that paperclip in Word? BOB. Ever wonder who the project lead for BOB was? Bill Gates' wife was responsible for the paper clip. Really, it's true.
Melinda French Gates was a project lead on MS Bob (you have to remember MicroSoft Bob -- it was that cartoony software that slowed your machine to a crawl and insulted you while balancing your checkbook or reading email). When Bob was revealed to be the complete and utter turkey that it was always destined to be, guess what got some of the "usability and human interface" stuff? Office. Guess who happened to also be, ah, "seeing" The Boss? Melinda. Why wasn't Bob just canned, like any other project that wastes millions and failed completely? You have to wonder if Bill G wasn't getting pillow-talked into something. In fact, MS Bob was the first consumer product Bill Gates released personally. People do the strangest things for love.
Anyway, a lot of what Bob had to offer didn't get canned (as it should have). It got repuposed and wound up in other MS products. Take a look at the screenshot on this page. See that dog in the lower corner? That was Bob's dog Rex. (I wish they had a picture of the dragon named "Java"; I wonder if McNealy every knew about that?) Looks like that paper clip, eh? Bob's ghost is in other stuff, too. MS Agent had a re-incarnation.
Well this is all way OT. But I think the Bob fiasco sheds some light on what goes on at MS. There's really no reason to wonder about the pape clip. I'm sure Melinda will insist on touchy-feely stuff being included in every MS product. I love it when someone thinks for me...
-B
Ash and Hickory, straight-grained and true, make excellent bludgeons, dandy for the cudgeling of vegetarians.
into a corner, make sure it's our corner.
Being one of the many users of your software. I think that it would be in the best interest of your company to spend your money not on "anti-Unix" propaganda. Yet you should focus that money internally. How about taking that money and dedicating your vast resources to auditing your code? While I'm on that subject. If Windows is far superior to all flavors of *nix. Then why is it that you are afraid to show us "what's under the hood?" Just a friendly bit of advice from your above average user.
John Q. Public
we have the way out = we will provide you the means of commiting electronic suicide
Long embedded history with the military, Unisys... ha! Unisys needs to be put out of its missery. It went to be a big player in the computing field, to be a marginal service provider (at best). And this is why I do not understand companies that base their business on M$ stuff: D|I|G|I|T|A|L|, Intergraph, Data General, and now Unisys. All these companies are either gone, or on their way out (I guess that is what the add reffers to by: "We have the way out..."
"Hey, if Unix is too hard for us geniuses here at Microsoft, don't you think it's too hard for you, too."
1. Perhaps being afraid of the command line and having more control options than point-click, point-click, point-click... please restart computer causes certain individuals to defend all familiar territory. It's understandable, it's human nature, FEAR FOR THE UNKNOWN and frustration towards the UNOBTAINABLE.
Your talking about the UNIX folks here, right? But you got it backwards! UNIX is limited to the command line, while MS products have the command prompt, ALT-s-r (Run) and a GUI. Good point though, those *NIX folks are insufferably jealous.
Takahashi Rumiko made beats! DON, taku, DON, taku. . .
I wish you weren't right, but you are. This is exactly the kind of fractured thinking that leads to things like the decimation of the dotcom economy, and I have seen it run rampant in the last few companies I have worked at (yep, they all failed).
The problem is, the equations they use to determine "shareholder value" in thier heads are all skewed. In thier world, the "value" of something goes down exponentially with time. If they can make $1 million dollars today, or $1 billion dollars in five years, they always chose the quick million becuase in thier tiny pea-heads, they think that every day that passes between now and when they get thier cash divides the value of their return by some arbitratily high number.
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
Instead of spending millions of dollars on a new ad Sun could use the video on this link:
Video - Take your time to download this, its worth it!
Fabio - Sumare/Sao Paulo/Brazil/South America/Earth/Solar System/Milky Way/Universe
http://www.morroida.com.br
..should be an ad with picture of a tiny house, with no doors and a single closed window with heavy bars on it. A bright smiling sun shines above the house, with children outside dancing freely in the summer sun.
Josh Woodward
We see a small datacenter, with a couple geeks staffing it. Two large Italian Tony-Soprano type men walk in.
Geek: Can I help you?
Guys: No, we was just admiring this fine setup youse has here.
Geek: OK...
Guys: You know, it would be a shame if anything was to happen to this place...youse has such nice computers here.
Geek: Um...are you threatening me? Because I can call Security if you are.
Guys: No, no, we was just observing what a shame it would be if something bad happened to this here datacenter. Of course, that would never happen...especially if youse guys upgrade to Windows XP.
Geek: Wait a minute...are you from Microsoft?
Guys: In fact, we have to report to Mr. Gates soon...we can tell him for you that youse wants to upgrade. How many licenses does youse guys need?
Geek: We don't need Windows XP. Our current setup runs fine and upgrading would cost an obscene amount of money.
Guys: (Crack knuckles) Yeah, it would be a shame if anything were to happen to youse guys and these fine computers...
Fade to black, displaying text on the screen:
Tired of strong-arm upgrade tactics?
Step out of the dark, seedy world of Microsoft and into the light.
UNIX. The friendly alternative.
And of course, there's potential for a whole series of ads here...
Granted I'm the sysadmin for a really small non-profit magazine. But we get plenty of x86 donations. Here's where OS X for a server will really shine, for someone like me. I have to support from 20-30 machines, do art direction for the magazine, and run the web site. We have W2k on the business staff, macs for editors and artists, and random crap for interns and fact checkers.
I need to provide stable print, file and intranet services to all these machines, and while I get a kick out of editing conf files and hacking away from the shell, there's simply not enough time in the day. The integrated aqua/unix environment has enabled me to offer a working production environment while I learn the ins and outs of unix. I'd guess there are a lot of former Macheads like myself that have spent the last year falling in love with unix and open source. The integrated OS X environment has given me enough confidence on a command line to begin converting every windows box in the office to mandrake.
Here's where the beauty of OS X server comes in. I could probably provide print queues and file shares from Linux or Windows, but it will take 20 minutes to have the whole staff networked and converted to a DHCP protocol next week. Everyone from Linux to Windows, to OS 9 to OS X gets the same data repository. We can automate backups from every machine, and with Remote Desktop I can even manage editor workstations simultaneously.
I think when OS X server 2.0 comes out the small business market will really benefit. There's gonna be CUPS underneath the printer core, more integrated remote control functions, and piles of speed improvements. My job keeps getting easier.
Check it out: Warning: Any User Can 'Root' Win NT, 2000 ---- maybe Microsoft can mention this in their ads..
You need to know how to setup servers and handle a computer. They actually have you troubleshoot a purposefully broken computer. If you can't diagnose it, you don't pass
You have to do that **four** times. You also have to build a system from scratch which meets a list of required features and REQUIRES a kernel recompile. I watched a five-year AIX'er fail and a four year Solaris guy hack his way through. An MCSE was there "to see what Linux was all about" - um, FAIL.
Intelligent Life on Earth
Not that I'm a big fan of their software solutions, but Novell has a new video which may or may not (I don't know for sure either way) become a running commercial ad. It's very amusing and carries the sentiment of virtually every geek out there. Might be a nice thing to mention to the bosses next time they come up with the "great idea" of digging themselves further into Microsoft products.
-- "Government is the great fiction through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
I was told this by a MCSE.
I suspect he isn't the only MCSE that loathes
the hands that feed them.
Fun fun fun, here's my counter ad: Some guy is painting, painting painting with purple paint until he has painted himself into a corner. Then, all he does it step on to the WALL (defying gravity) and finish painting that corner while walking sideways on the wall.
Then flash some slogan like:
"We don't see problems, we see solutions"
"Your superior intellect is no match for our puny weapons!"
My question is, are these really 32 processor machines running Windows or just multiple 4 way systems in the same box. Even the Unisys site isn't very clear.
One ad states, 'No wonder Unix makes you feel boxed in. It ties you to an inflexible system. It requires you to pay for expensive experts. It makes you struggle daily with a server environment that's more complex than ever.'
Shesh, I thought they were talkin about MS.
Let see:
Inflexible system -> Check every MS OS fits
Pay Expensive Experts -> Psuedo check
MS will charge for support and you DONT get experts but monkeys reading scripts...
Struggle daliy with a server environment that's more complex than ever ->
I guess you might struggle more with MS, and I dont think that GUI interface makes things less complex it just hides more of whats REALLY going on...
I guess they pointing out how Microsoft is MORE of a pain in the ass than Unix... I'd believe that... Doesn't make me want to use them for servers....
I mean, using your logic, BSD is not UNIX. The commonly held belief is that it is UNIX.
Technically speaking, BSD is NOT UNIX. UNIX is (was?) an AT&T trademark and invention. BSD is a ground up re-write of the entire OS including the kernel. In the same way that Linux is a ground up re-write of the kernel. And, Linux has the GNU utilities on top of it. Utilities that pre-date Linux by a significant number of years. Utilities that ran under both BSD and AT&T UNIX years before the Linux kernel was born.
I think it's clear that UNIX can no longer be considered in terms of a trademark or invention by AT&T (or Berkeley).
UNIX is a philosophical standpoint, it's a BASE reference for building operating systems, it's a methodology, it's a paradigm. It's many things.
And finally, LINUX IS UNIX .
Linux is UNIX.
Your datacenter is the lifeblood of your company. And you don't want to hire an expensive expert to administer it? Fool!
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
MS and Unisys are not Sun's big problem. Sun's problem is that Linux is eating into Sun's server OS market share, and with that folks are no longer willing to pay the high prices for Sun boxen.
The new marketing strategy mentions this quote:
"No wonder Unix makes you feel boxed in. It ties you to an inflexible system. It requires you to pay for expensive experts. It makes you struggle daily with a server environment that's more complex than ever,"
Now, replace Unix with "Windows", and what do you get? A quote that makes a lot more sense, that's what you get. Quick, what are some phrases that describes Windows servers? Inflexible, requires expensive MCSE people, simple to fuck up, complex to keep running right. Microsoft had better come up with something better than this if they want "big" system admins to migrate to Windows 2000 Datacenter, mainly because they trust Unix, and they know it works; when Microsoft tells these guys that there stuff doesn't work, and that Microsoft's stuff will, they aren't exactly gaining much trust. I say let Microsoft kill themselves; the more steps like this that they make, and it might just happen.
ehintz
Linux/free UNIX is big competition for Microsoft especially in the mid/low-end sever market. Microsoft definately have the right to advertise why their software is presumably better.
Any CTO that foolishly buy Microsoft software believing that there is a lower total cost of ownership or better security deserves what he/she gets.
"A buck today is worth more than a buck tommarow"
Absolutely true. But the following adages (which I just made up) are equally true:
"A buck today and a buck tomorrow is worth more than a buck today and nothing tomorrow."
"A buck today is not necessarily worth more than two bucks tomorrow."
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned
This is sad but true, the add is geared towards people whom have heard of Unix but have no clue, which is about %75 of the M$ population.
This SIG pulled due to lack of funding. (This damn war is costing too much!)
It's not a bug it's a feature...
Rather than get a unix box with little or no features get a Microsoft operation system that is packed with an obscenely high number of features for you to work with!
I stole this Sig
Yes, thats right - why not? I believe that this is one of the many things that M$ are resorting to, to try and keep living in the server world.
:)
They know that once they have died in the server world, the client computers and desktop computers will follow.
Additionally, if *nix isnt harmed from these campaigns (of course they wont heh), then it'll only serve to make them stronger. And this cant be bad
Seriously, folks, we've all heard this before...
And where is VMS now?
"Never bullshit a bullshitter" All That Jazz
No, its not like the bookstores won't be stocking O'Reilly books anymore, its just that you'll have to go back to the old way of reading the spines to figure out what book you want...
Doesn't mean much to those who buy online, of course...but its similar to the tactic (also mentioned in the trial, b.t.w.) of M$ buying up tons of shelf space at computer software stores so there was no room on the shelves for competitors at all.
"But remember, most lynch mobs aren't this nice." (H.Simpson)
-- Joe
I can't believe it's necessary to point this out.
The "giant penguin attacking Redmond" ad was humorous and ironic. (We all know who the 800-pound gorilla is around here.) Nobody looked at that banner ad and decided to eliminate MS products from consideration for a project out of fear that a giant rampaging penguin would lay waste to their town.
In contract, a lot of people still give a lot of weight to Microsoft's advertising. I guess they think it's one thing to damn near lie in a Federal criminal case, but MS would never lie to customers and potential customers.
So these comments have a real chance of causing people to back away from Unix.
Worse, and perhaps the real purpose of this campaign, the fact that their claims apply even more directly to MS products than Unix/Linux will provide an "innoculation" effect when the Unix/Linux people offer reasons for getting away from MS products. The poor victims of the Dark Jedi mind tricks will recognize the phrases and believe that everyone is equally guilty. Just like how "everyone" now knows that all software is buggy, that "configuration" only refers to trivialities like selecting the background image on your desktop, etc. That's a well-known technique for eliminating the ability of your critics to attack your own weaknesses.
For every complex problem there is an answer that is clear, simple, and wrong. -- H L Mencken
When I was working for Be, Inc. (RIP), I threw together a speculative ad promoting Be's Internet Appliance offering. With very little fiddling, I'm sure it could be repurposed as a pro-UNIX piece.
Offered herewith to seed new ideas.
Schwab
Editor, A1-AAA AmeriCaptions
I was thinking of using a yugo.
Now the interesthing thing on this is a thing called a "design patent"
As seen on the Patent Office Site:
This is a patent on things like the distinctive shape of a bottle, the grill of a car, etc. There is a whole art and legal science to this. It is used to keep designs unique between competitors.Apple could probably get a design patent on the look and feel of their OS, separate from the functionality. They are apparently relatively easy to get.
The real worry is if someone like Ford were to see something like this (if I used a Ford car) and got out the legal eagles for "degrading the reputation of their product" by depicting their car on the net with MS colors.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
as far as the server is concerned. as far as saying Microsft is not taking linux seriously then explain to me why they have PR peole specifically to fight linux.
Microsoft is scared because desktop linux is still quite young and a 0.25% share would have normally killed off any business ( think Beos).
Tell me, have you ever tried to collaborate on a paper with equations in Microsoft Word? Any attempt at that, and you will quickly see that different versions of office are not compatible.
I find your comments on windoze being enterprise level to be very humorous. I just deleted thousands of viruses on three windoze computers we use here. I actually ended up wiping and re-installing on two machines. That sounds like real enterprise realibility to me. Tell me, do you remember to turn off your screensaver when you do a computation longer than 30 minutes? If you do, you would surely recognize the value of turning off the entire GUI and shutting down numerous systems as you can do on Linux, but can't on windoze.
Looks like Unisys could spend a little more improving their service and a little less hyping it...
So have no fear.
The original poster claimed that W2K could not possibly run calculations for hours or days. My response was directly to that statement. Pay attention or shut the hell up.
The original poster claimed that W2K could not possibly run calculations for hours or days. My response was directly to that statement. Pay attention or shut the hell up.
If you don't believe me, I really don't care at all. Your ignorance and bias is your own cross to bear.
The scarry thing is that Windows claims to be working on stabilizing and securing Windows. If you thought they would ONLY perform the FUD trick and actually ignore all the talk about how their products are notoriously unstable and unsecure, then you are in for a very rude awakening. MS plays very hard (and very nasty) ball, so you should be prepared for a nasty fight. UNIX might seem the inpenetrable citadel, but when you look at the problem from a managers perspective (at least a technical managers) you see how over the years UNIX has become rather stale while 'new' or at least neo-re-introduced technologies that work much better are introduced by third parties for Windoze all the time.
To relate part of the problem, look at how many *nix, *bsd, Linux folk purposely obfuscate things, where Windows folks (including those that make stuff FOR windows platforms) try to make it as usable as possible. *nix folks are too busy shooting themselves in the foot (when not sticking their feet in their mouth) and trying to basically be 1337. I can't tell you how many times that even hard lines Unix folk will get frustrated at Unix tools that are flaky in use (features and interface) and documentation, yet get mad when they 'find' that a Windows solution is much quicker.
The thing that *nix supporters (and I include myself in this) need to remember is that no one except hobbiests are going to find the kludgy nature of Unix tools handy. Unix needs to keep the same level of stability it used to have, but take away the foolishness of thinking that obfuscation is helpful... that is like trying to keep a burger joint in business that costs just a bit less but requires the customer to kill the cow, pick the lettuce and bake the bread themselves before preparing the actual ingredients and assembling the end burger for themselves. Add to that the inconsistency between each joint and the elite and arrogant attitide of the burger joint workers and you will not have to worry about customers much longer because they will NEVER come back.
"It [Unix] requires you to pay for expensive experts..." So this means Windows experts are cheap? According to Microsoft's own logic, MCSE is a commodity (cheap labor) market. Attention Computer Science students: Adjust your course selection and career plans accordingly.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
When MS does it, it's Business.
When anybody else does it, it's zealotry and they should just GROW UP.
Typical MS apologia.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Anyone remember NT 3.1 at 1,299 for 'unlimited users'? The claim it will be a 'better UNIX than UNIX?' Or other good MS claims?
Does anyone have a list of bookmarks to such info?
(and the same goes for Oracle...I smell blood in the water about Larry's yacht and wouldn't mind scraping together links to data about Oracle sticking it to its customers)
If it was said on slashdot, it MUST be true!
2002-03-28 21:38:14 Unisys, MSFT to attack Unix with new ads (articles,unix) (rejected)
enough said
http://saveie6.com/
(* but today.....they focus on producing money for their stock holders rather that products for a community. *)
That is a bunch of malarky. Greed is not new. Companies used to sell tape-worms in tablets as a weight-loss treatments. (Sure, it worked, but had nasty side-effects that were not disclosed.)
"Community" my ess. A community of worms, perhaps.
Table-ized A.I.
Too bad you can't even put a name on your opinion. The AC calling the AC a coward?
Sorry for the blatant Microsoft bashing, but I really did laugh out loud at this one. It should read:
'No wonder Windows makes you feel boxed in. It ties you to an inflexible system (closed source). It requires you to pay for expensive experts (and licenses). It makes you struggle daily with a server environment that's more dumbed down than ever.'
' Ore stabit fortis a fine placet ore stat '
- found on a park bench
Short uptimes in my environment are more related to the poor quality (unreliable, frequent brownouts) of the electric power supplied to some of the towns in which my systems are located than anything inherent in one OS or another.
I consider myself lucky when I can count the uptime of a MS-Windows machine in weeks, where uptime of Solaris (in the same power-and-environment controlled datacenter) is calculated in months, and usually only that short due to the occasional security patches that require a reboot to complete.
I do not deploy Linux. Ever.
It might backfire on them. When people see regular TV ads bashing *nix, they will be more interested it. IOW, "If Bill Gates is afraid of something, then it must be important."
I wonder if the ads say who they are sponsered by?
Table-ized A.I.
If Microsoft has such a wonderful server software, why is it when I go to http://www.netcraft.com and put in hotmail.com, the first 8 servers returned are running Freebsd? Anyone, anyone???
(* Absolutely true. But the following adages....are equally true:.... *)
It is not *just* adages. There is *theory* behind how much to focus/invest in the short-term versus long-term. I would suggest that you take an investment class and/or get a respected book on it. I couldn't do it justice in a few paragraphs.
Table-ized A.I.
They were a problem for IBM in their heyday, so they got fired anyone who would bring in better hardware/software from someone else. The sales pukes would talk to the PHB, who understood what was important (insanely high margins and sales commissions).
Now MS is going after the same group, talking over their head to the PHB. Has anybody been fired as a result of an MS salesman yet?
The expert Window's boys are the ones who are considering other solutions after the security debacle of the last two years. They are smart enough to know that what is currently happening is untenable, and smart enough to look elsewhere. They know their skills are transferable.
I worked for the Canadian federal government a few years ago, and saw the conflict between managers and skilled technicians. The problem with technicians, especially good ones, is you can't control them. Get a dumb or inexperienced one, and they will try to do what you say. A skilled experienced one will say stuff it, this is how it is going to be done.
Microsoft got it's start by appealing to the technicians. Now it thinks it is above that, and will alienate the smartest to get a quick sale.
I think this more than anything else shows the desperation Microsoft is feeling in the face of a smart unkillable competition.
Derek
Ok, I'll admit that we only have one machine with that kind of uptime. However, our unix systems have excellent uptimes. They would be better, but everyone's favorite company (Sun) has so many security issues that they need to be purposely downed for patching. So, let me rephrase my statement.
Show me a windows box that, not excuding intentional downtime for patching, can "outlive" a unix box, and I'll change my thinking.
Jeremy Baumgartner
MS should rather spend that money to improve the security and the stability of its products rather than spending it to this campaign.
If Microsoft is attacking "Unix" (that is, they use the term "Unix"), it's not going to be that bad for Linux. Why? Most non-tech people who have heard of Linux know it only as "Linux" -- they are unaware of its relationship to "Unix".
But if they mention Linux, well then I'm entirely wrong.
On a side note, here's an interesting article I stumbled across on Microsoft's website entitled "How to Remove Linux and Install Windows on Your Computer". This may have been mentioned here before, but I think this is worth mentioning again in the thick of all this:
How to Remove Linux and Install Windows on Your Computer
"They are apparently hyping that Unix is an expensive money trap."
Replace Unix with Microsoft here and you've got the picture!
Video Game cheats, hints a
It's a jab at Microsoft's XP "It'll make you fly" shtick. BSOD --> literal crash.
:-]
The idea is cute, but it's an amateur piece, not actual Novell marketing material. At least I hope that's the case
Unfortunately, "intentional downtime for patching" can be a weekly occurrence. :-\
-- One Sorry NT Admin
Microsoft can show their famous "flying through the air commercial" with a man with a big sign saying "UNIX" walking down the street running from things thrown by people flying.
Microsoft lies. I use Linux. It is very good. I like the freedom of Linux.
Microsoft means NO freedom. I will keep using Linux. It is the best.
In the long run, we're all dead. -- John Maynard Keynes
I think this was Churchill: "If you ask two economists a question, you'll get two opinions. Unless one of them is Lord Keynes, in which case you'll get three opinions."
As for the overuse of the quote, I'm actually not sure I'd seen it before, and at least it's not (yet?) as badly overused as the "freedom for security" line.
David Gould
main(i){putchar(340056100>>(i-1)*5&31|!!(i<6)<< 6)&&main(++i);}
I agree, but I think this goes far beyond just IT. American business leaders, like most Americans, are brainwashed morons that think the end goal in business is to make money. And I love how we always push the blame onto someone else. Like its the governments job to protect us from ourselves. We have legal aliens, foreigners with visas, flying planes into our tallest buildings (something we should have seen coming from a mile away) and yet we trust our government and airlines to continue operation? We think we can protect ourselves from these types of disasters by going to War? With a country that never attacked us? Or several countries for that matter. How many people must we kill before we'll accept that its our own damned fault and get on with the clean up, recovery, and redesign of the OBVIOUSLY BROKEN SYSTEM? The answer? All of them. But as Microsoft has shown us, there's really nothing wrong with our system, nothing to see here. Trust in capitalism. Trust in it until you find yourself 80 years old, working to pay the bills. Then ask yourself what happened to the love, if there ever was such a thing.
I want love, not money.
Ok, so it was the hub. It wasn't windows fault. But, it WAS microsoft's fault. Ever heard of product testing? Did they even test the machine with the scanner before shipping it to the show? Seems windows was shipped in the same way.
The government of Canada and the State of Texas agrees with you and so do I. There was a period of time when Microsoft was going to change the word to "Expert" to placate the Canadians in particular, but they shelved those plans, unfortunately.
I would frankly be way more comfortable saying I'm a Microsoft Certified Systems Expert.
BTW the preparation you go through when the MCSE is taught CORRECTLY is a bit like a condensed version of an Associates in Information Systems. It's grueling stuff. You really DO learn Windows 2000 inside and out, or as much as you can learn an operating system that is Closed/Non-Free/Proprietary inside and out. You don't get the breadth of a 2-year degree, mind you, but you are preparing for seven very grueling tests. These are not the NT4 MCP tests, where a chimp pushing random buttons could pass. Some of the tests are based around case studies, and they are tough indeed. Only a simulations-based test or a live test with a proctor like the RHCE would beat the "design" exams.
I think the Engineer part of the title isn't worth the confusion it causes. MS should change the name. Microsoft Certified Systems Expert would be fine.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
It seems to me that there is an AC-DC song perfect for the Anti-Mirosoft monopoly campaign: "Got you by the balls."
is ibm, apple, hp, sun to start making ads like these ones
[alk]
MsGeek put it pretty much the way it is. My company uses Exchange, and I hate it with a vengeance, but it does the job and I'd hate to be tinkering with user administration all day. Meanwhile, I'm doing the Postfix border e-mail gateways, as a minor aside to my job.
/. article, the big danger is that managers believe NT is the easy solution. It is not. At one stage, my company needed an NT sysadmin for a remote location. Something like 20 people applied, most of the MCSE's, one a former taxi driver. We hired the taxi driver. He was the only one who, when confronted with a broken machine, asked the right questions and got the problem solved. If the MCSE's had their hearts in this business, they'd have gotten the MCSE because they had the experience and wanted to get proof of it. The ones we encountered in the job market approached it the other way around, had no innate interest in the field but believed getting certified would compensate for that.
The thing that gets on my nerves in this eternal Microsoft spin doctoring is the implicit denial of the simple fact that trained monkeys will not be able to run an all-Microsoft shop, and any company above mom-and-pop size will need to hire Really Good Geeks to get the work done. Learning Windows properly is at least as hard as learning Unix properly (screw user friendliness, a decent sized Windows shop needs folks who know what to tweak in the registry and what not to).
There is no amount of Microsoft support that will compensate for having experienced staff. Whatever OS you pick, there is no substitute for having employees who know their stuff. And that's the bottom line.
I'm blessed with a bunch of colleagues who know NT inside and out. They trust me to keep the border e-mail flowing, and I trust them to keep the users off my back. I don't want their jobs, not even if it could be moved to UNIX.
Now, back to the topic of this
In another few years, our guy will be as theoretically underpinned as the MCSE's are, but in the mean time, he's running the shop, and will move up or move on to another company where he can apply his talents and his experience. Those are the people you need, and they're hard to come by, and harder still to retain if they outgrow the position they were hired for.
Bert Driehuis -- All I asked was a friggin' rotatin' chair. Throw me a bone here, people.
'No wonder Microsoft makes you feel boxed in. It ties you to an inflexible system. It requires you to pay for expensive Software. It makes you struggle daily with a server environment that's more insecure than ever.'
Nice troll. If I buy two, will you throw in the Blatant Lies for free?
Of course, yes, you had to study a lot and it's a difficult certifigate to get, a high-level one... That's why M$ wants to change exams to reduce amount of MSCEs, because there are too much of them out there. You know, like people with primary school done.
Who, in the public, is going to even begin to understand these adverts or really care? How many big server purchasing decisions are made based on adverts?
I think it's just a way of trying to force an expensive reaction from companies like Sun etc who probably cannot afford it as much as MS can.
I wouldn't waste 2 seconds responding - I'd just invest $25 million more in my Cobalt appliance/ rack-mounted server business.
Regards,
Tim
This is all just my personal opinion.
These ads aren't for geeks - they are for clueless bosses who believe that Bill Gates is some kind of technological guru who invented computing and the internet (yes, lots of people still think that).
... and outside the US it is an import, with all the balance of trade and security issues that entails.
The ads are all about perception - the kind of perception that really derives from experiences that are 5 to 15 years out of date (Unix before Linux), and that is easily dazzled by appearances (eg slick GUIs and marketing presentations that gloss over real-world complications).
Microsoft are masters of the big lie - otherwise known as propaganda or Marketing(tm). They will try very hard to pursuade the clueless bosses that they are being technically clued-in when they choose a Microsoft solution. This appeals to the boss's vanity, and they have no expertise to see through the hype they are swallowing.
It is no use ranting about how wrong or how hypocritical MS is, the point is that bosses don't know this, and won't believe it if you tell them (they believe that Gates is a super-guru, and they have never heard of Linus - and in any case Gates is a highly successful businessman, while Linus is somebody else's employee). Consequently, they will be vulnerable to the ads.
One other point: MS has its own marketing vulnerabilities: instability, email viruses, BSA audits, costly upgrade cycles, licensing changes,
I am anarch of all I survey.
*nods* Well said.. but the thing is that MS markets their software on the premise that it's better than anyone else's software for /anything/.
This slander campaign is running a site claiming to have "the way out". An appropriate response from the open source community, in my opinion, would be a campaign that tells, the we, in fact, have the way in!
The domain name wehavethewayin.org is free, at least at the moment. The dot com name is registered through Tucows, but the registrant info is "not available" at the moment. If someone out there - OSDN, SuSE, RedHat, whoever - would like to respond to Microsoft and Unisys, using a domain name similar to their own campaign name would be a cool way to do it. So make it happen.
Juan Meneses
Pity the meek, for they shall inherit the earth.
-- Don Marquis
The site www.wehavethewayout.com is running Rapidsite/Apa-1.3.14 (Unix) FrontPage/4.0.4.3 mod_ssl/2.7.1 OpenSSL/0.9.5a on FreeBSD.
-Enough Said. Why does Microsoft allways do this? I mean, I'm only 21 years old, and I don't have more than $6000 Canadian to spend per year on server hardware? but why would I choose a vendor who doesn't have the balls to use their own product? This has come up many, many times before, so I know this post is repetative, but when will we get the point across?
HURD - Hurd's Under Research & Development
It's interesting to note the web server running this advertising campaign runs FreeBSD... www.wehavethewayout.com
Panning left-to-right over a series of screens set into six-foot-high plain beige boxes:
Camera pans over Windows desktop on first screen
Voiceover: Looking for a computer system with the reliability you need?
(First screen bluescreens)
Camera pans over Windows desktop on second screen
VO: Need something that can handle the toughest loads?
(2nd screen bluescreens)
VO (as camera pans over 3rd Windows screen): Something that has REAL security against electronic break-ins?
(3rd screen bluescreens)
Camera pans over last screen, which has a Solaris desktop. The six-foot cabinet is shown to be Sun purple, as the camera pulls back to show the entire cabinet, with the BSOD on the previous cabinet or two also visible.
VO: Sun Microsystems. Real businesses, real computers.
The press has picked up on this. CNET is running the story today, so I imagine MS/Unisys will have to issue a press release in response by COB today since they "weren't immediately available for comment" at the time the story was posted. Unless they are hoping that the CNET story gets written off as an April Fools joke.
FYI, per Netcraft Unisys does run most of the webservers I checked on an NT/2k platform, but doesn't seem particularly loyal to MS when it comes to Web Server software, using IIS occasionally but also Netscape and Lotus webserver SW. Also, at least one of the Unisys sites I checked (weather.unisys.com) runs Apache on Red Hat Linux.
Work for Change & GET PAID!
I seem to recall that shortly after MSNBC went on the air, they had to drop the IIS servers and replace them with DEC boxes because the servers couldn't handle the load.
Looks like then went back to IIS, though.
I guess these idiots don't know how to pipe
commands, Unix is extremely flexable.