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Does Your LCD Play Catch-Up To Your Mouse?
Dishes of Ryan writes "I fell in love with the idea of an LCD monitor, so I ended up buying a nice, shiny Dell 2001FP. However, nowhere, and I mean *nowhere* did I read about LCDs having an input lag on them. For instance, if I scoot the mouse across the screen, there is a noticeable delay between when I move the mouse and when the cursor moves. To prove it to people, made a video showing exactly what I mean. You can almost forget being king of the hill on twitch FPS games like Unreal Tournament. Are there any other Slashdotters out there that are as annoyed as I am? What did you do?"
No offense, but you need to get another monitor. I notice no "lag" between my iBook and CRTs, nor do I notice any lag on my new 17" KDS for my desktop. Having developed a few video games and GUIs, I have a fairly well trained eye. I can see the problem in the video, but I see no such problem on my systems.
Conclusion? Dell buys parts from the lowest bidder. Ergo, they are the lowest quality. Therefore, you need a better monitor.
Sorry.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
No
Have you hugged your penguin today?
That LCD monitors weren't the best for most games anyway? Unless you get an ultra expensive one, you're probably going to have problems.
I wonder if it's the display that's lagging, or the video drivers? The last time I recall seeing an LCD display "lag" was back before the days of TFT screens, where your mouse would "submarine". (disappear while it was on the move)
I work for the Department of Redundancy Department.
When I bought my LCD monitor I found all kinds of information in user reviews online. Check out New Egg, Amazon, etc. for all kings of discussion of this exact issue.
In response...I purchased a cheap 17" NEC LCD monitor from staples and I've never noticed a lag between my mouse and monitor. Maybe I just don't notice?? Haven't played many FPS games...so can't comment there.
I've built countless systems with various high and low end LCD screens with no such lag. The worst screen I've encountered had the typical old-generation ghosting, but I've never seen input lag.
I've never seen this behavior on the desktop or any of my laptops. Your bad, I'm afraid.
--
And yes, for the grammar police, I meant "Your bad," not "You're bad," which has a completely different meaning. To the slang patrol - yeah, its a colloquialism. My bad.
You're special forces then? That's great! I just love your olympics!
I use my 2001FP mounted on the wall in the bedroom as a TV. Works great for that.
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
Our school just bought all new 18" LCD's from dell. 2 per computer at that for the office I work in. Theyre the nicest thing I've ever seen, and there is no lag. I'd call dell.
Ummmmm, No.
have you tried maxing out the refresh rate? that generally helps.
and dude, GIYF. good god.
filter: +3. Hey, look! all the trolls went away!
Oh, come on now.. You cant honestly think we are going to believe you didn't know that there is a lag with LCD displays?
Haven't you EVER seen a laptop before? Or even a F-ing digital watch?
Geez...
That's like claiming you didn't know cigarettes were bad for you when you are in the courtroom suing some tobacco company..
Sure,. mod me down as flamebait.. but this is pretty much common knowledge/sense these days...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I have the 2001FP and there is ZERO lag whether hooked up via DVI or HD15 connection. I think you got a bad one. Call up Dell and get a replacement.
I have a dual monitor LCD set-up with two Dell 1800FPs. One monitor runs off of my video card's digital input, and the other monitor runs off of the card's analog input. However, I've never seen a problem like this with either monitor, after having the setup for about a year.
My office and some of our client's offices use LCDs for day to day work, and I've never seen this problem on them, either.
Maybe there's a hardware problem with the monitor itself, or even the video card? That's definately not normal behavior for an LCD monitor.
I have four LCDs on my main dev machine, and two others in my office.
None of them have an "input lag".
Yes, this is called "response time" for LCDs. You just have to make sure that when you buy an LCD, its response time (along with other things like the ratio of angle view) should be one of the things you always check out before you open your checkbook.
It may not be your LCD that's the problem. If you're using an IR or RF wireless mouse, there's a good chance the lag is coming from that.
The theory of relativity doesn't work right in Arkansas.
I'd recommend popping in Knoppix and see how it works. It will probably pick an open driver made for your graphics card family. You say this happens with the mouse, what about typing?
I have a Samsung SyncMaster 770, P4 2.26 ghz, Logitech USB mouse. I am teh k1ng of Doom 3!!!!!1!11
What kind of mouse do you have?
Is it a wireless mouse? Because I can tell you now that low quality and last generation mice all have a damn high (very noticable) latency on them.
I've had zero problems on both of my laptops and every LCD I've ever used. Something's screwy with your hardware. It's rather sad that Slashdot posted this as a front pager...
What did you do?
I posted a 800K movie of it on Slashdot so I could suck up all the Internet's available bandwidth and make everyone else's game run at the same fps as mine. =)
Never had that happen before... My guess would be that something like the nvidia desktop manager is overloading your card, or possibly malwear. Or could be a damaged cable. Either way, I would bitch to Dell about it.
I have no mouse lag at all on my Samsung 172T - the mouse movement (MS Optical) is very accurate and fast to the monitor.
Of course, there IS some monitor refresh lag, but that's just the nature of the LCD I'm using. Newer models are better.
The reviewer doesn't say if they are using a VGA or DVI interface. It's possible that if it's a VGA interface, there's some sort of VGA/Digital conversion lag possibly based on some sort of chipset the monitor?
"Nothing strengthens authority so much as silence." - Charles de Gaulle
I would suggest something, but it's still buffering.
There are responses to the blog that suggest it's a problem with the person's PC. I don't have this problem on my laptop, nor on my PC with a samsung LCD. I have never heard of it, and our people at work testing new PC's with cheapo HP LCD didn't complain either.
Your whole screen "lags", you just happen to notice in with your mouse the most. It's a common LCD problem, and it can cause motion-blurry video games too, among other things. Newer and/or more expensive LCDs minimize (or eliminate from what I've heard, but not seen myself) the problem. Feel free to buy a computer monitor online for the price - but always check out the exact brand and model at a physical store first.
11*43+456^2
The video is is WMV format. So if you don't have something that plays WMV I recommend heading over here and grabbing a copy of Xine which will be able to play the video.
Creative Demolition
Use a CRT at home, for games, DVD etc, and an LCD at work, where I edit text/graphics etc, and don't have to pay for my own hardware.
If I wanted to see a bunch of trails behind stuff whenever it moved, I'd take acid.
...that would predict how you move the mouse before hand to make up for the lag.
Are you sure it isn't a problem on your computer? I have a five years old Viewsonic VE-150 on my desktop and I play Day of defeat, Counter Strike and BF1942 and never had a problem.
I even play that game called Windows XP Pro SP2 and never noticed this on my computer.
There is no lag on my ultra-cheap Daewoo 17" LCD. It is actually great for games. Time to ask Dell for a refund. You don't need to pay big bucks for a good quality LCD. You just need the big bucks for a quality LCD with digital input.
A slashdotter who didn't build his own computer is like a Jedi who didn't build his own lightsaber.
Get a 17" LCD with the 16ms or 12ms AU Optronics panel, or (better yet) an LCD with the 16ms HyDis panel.
I have the Hitachi CML174SXW (AU Optronics 16ms) and it performs excellently. No "ghosting" in UT2004.
That monitor is actually a BenQ monitor with Dell's name on it. It's a great monitor, and has a 16ms response time, so it shouldn't lag at all in normal use. You should try video drivers or maybe even the mouse itself. There simply is no reason a good monitor such as that one (congratulations on your purchase. That's the best cost to performance monitor out right now.) should show lag in a normal situation. I have used a 25ms LCD, and it doesn't lag in normal use. Call Dell after if driver's don't work.
A Cornea 704 LCD monitor and I have NEVER had a single problem with it. You should just return your flat scren and get a Cornea 704. They are excellent for FPS games! I love mine!
Red Bull gave me wings and I flew into the ceiling fan.
My Dell 2001FP has no lag. Think first -- then post.
That sounds much more like an issue with your computer than with your monitor. Does it do this with a CRT running the same resolution and refresh rate? I would bet so. LCDs have slower image response time (pixel rise/fall) than CRTs, but there is no significant delay between the time a signal reaches the monitor and the time it is displayed. In fact, implementing such a delay would be quite a challenge -- the information would have to be stored somewhere between the time it is sent to the monitor and the time it is displayed. This would require significant memory in the monitor to buffer several frames of video. Monitors don't do this.
I am a geek attorney, but not your geek attorney unless you've already retained me. This is not legal advice.
I bought an IOGEAR all-in-one KVM switch that plugs into a USB port and allows me to plug in PS/2 peripherals. I noticed in games as well as working with desktop applications there's keyboard AND mouse lag.
You don't mention whether you have a KVM hooked up, but if you do, try taking it out of the equation.
No sig for you!!
I have a dell 2001fp at work and have no lag. I couldn't ask for a better monitor. And I've been totally converted to portrait mode with this monitor. Better for code, better for web, better for word processing, better for spreadsheets. I'm never going to buy a non-rotatable TFT ever again.
Sucks for FPS though, but its as good as any other TFT I've found.
Mirrors for that video are needed. Post them here!
seriously
you can afford a nice expensive monitor, spend a couple of bucks on a quality mouse
I've seen ghosting on some dell lcd monitors at school when scrolling down but never what you experience "input lag". Nothing like scrolling through a text file and trying to read it while ghosting is apparent as hell.
Is there a similar lag when (for example) typing in Notepad? Yes - check vieo hardware / drivers. No - check your mouse.
This has been known, you clearly didn't do very good research, but instead just wanted the thing.
They're definately nowhere good enough for gaming, stick to CRT's. For standard office use, they're fine.
Give it 5 years.
-- Note: If you don't agree with me, don't bother replying. I won't read it.
I might have seen this problem...
;)
I work with videogames and at work, on a decent but unexciting HP Windows box I get great response time with my mouse, good enough to stand my own in lots of public servers.
At home I have one of the lamp-like iMacs with 1Ghz processor, 1GB RAM, 17" LCD monitor. When I try to play on the iMac (e.g. UT2k3), I have exactly the problem described. Figured it was my mouse, but see the same thing when I got a new one. Played around with all kinds of settings in-game and can't seem to shake the problem. It's bad enough that I simply don't play on this computer.
Then again, I WAS trying to game on a mac...
It's the buffering in the driver.
Flat Panels *will* ghost and blur, however they do not lag.
What causes this is buffering of execution commands in the drivers, which makes some games at certain resolutions lag really really bad on input.
Change drivers, and it will usually go away.
I've got a 17-inch dell Flat Panel and have never had any problem. I play ET Pro on it all of the time...
----------
perl -e 'print(pack("H*","646176652e7761676e657240676d616
I'm using a SGI 1600SW (original production dates way back to 1998), a 32MB Radeon AGP, and my Power Mac G4 2x533, and the display is as responsive as could be. No lag at all, and I use this machine for just about everything you could imagine (including what crappy games my 3 year old mac can play). This includes the signal passing through the SGI MultiLink box, connecting the LVDS panel to my DVI (actually ADC with a passive adapter) mac.
With stuff as old as mine, and as many adapters as I've got running, I'd say something is wrong with that Dell panel. Trade it in for something of much better quality.
Your eyes are burnt out or worn out from too much bloodshed. I have no clue WTF you are on. But stop taking it and try some amphetamines. You'll do great on KOTH.
This problem is far more likely to be an input side issue, rather than an output issue.
:)
A few months back, I had a similar problem with my mouse. The most recent config change had been to add in a KVM switch to control a 2nd PC.
It turns out input lag is the reason not to buy a cheap KVM switch
I believe low quality laptop docks can have the same problem.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
alcohol often slows down response times. maybe you should give your monitor a sobriety test. mine passed with flying colors last night and my mouse shows no lag when I move it across my screen.
driver then again he may have some app that is sucking his ram
I have a 19" Mitsubishi CRT that does 1920 x 1440. I run 1600x1200 most of the time. I don't think I'd have much luck finding an LCD or Plasma screen that could handle those resolutions for anything close to a reasonable price.
-- No sig for you!
I've used lots of LCDs, including plenty of DELL LCDs. The LCDs we've used at work were faded, and the colors looked awful after a copule of years. but I've never never seen any kind of lag like this in any kind of monitor.
My guess is that there is something wrong with the video drivers, or the mouse drivers, or some other part of his computer that's causing these problems.
I can't see the vid because the file is apperantly slashdotted.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
If so, there is a problem somewhere. It may be your LCD. It may not be.
Last Friday I purchased a 19" BenQ FP992 LCD for work. It has a 25ms response time. I didn't notice the mouse lagging, but I did need to turn up the mouse sensitivity because I need the pointer to move a greater distance with less movement than I did with the previous 1024x768 CRT. This computer is a P4 2.8 GHz with a 32MB AGP display, USB optical mouse and runs WinXP Pro.
On Saturday I purchased a 19" Philips 190S LCD for home. It has a 16ms response time. Again, there was no mouse lag, however I needed to turn up the mouse sensitivity. This computer is a PIII 450 MHz with a 32 MB AGP display, PS/2 optical mouse and runs Win98 and Fedora Core 2.
Both are connected via analog inputs (dsub).
All I can suggest is to ensure that you have tweaked your mouse settings, and maybe try a different mouse?
FYI the BenQ LCD is far superiour to the Philips LCD.
It sounds like it's either a buggy mouse driver (try upgrading, it's cheap) or the mouse itself that is the problem.
The LCD is almost certainly not to blame.
-- As long as the answer is right, who cares if the question is wrong?
I have had a 2001fp for a few months and have noticed no such behaviour. It must be your mouse driver or video card.
Easy. Slashdot editors are idiots who don't care a wit for the content on the site. I mean really, this site could have so much potential, but it's really been squandered by the creators. Average people who don't want to cede control to people who could actualy do a good job.
/rant.
autopr0n is like, down and stuff.
Did you update all your drivers? Did you call Dell for support?
I know it is Sunday and news is slow, but this is pretty wonky.
This Sig doesn't like The Force, The Matrix or Middle Earth. It also gets laid.
Also working on a WOOD resonator tube to place the cable in, directly 2 feet (stretched taunt to streamline signal) so extra force is "boosting" the mouse signal. Considering an q-entanglement setup, but it's costly. Pointer on screen should move .049 picoseconds before my hand.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I have a Samsung SyncMaster 213T and it works just fine with my PowerBook G4. I move the cursor around and it responds just fine. Me thinks it's YOUR LCD that has the problem...
Click here or a puppy gets stomped!
It seems to me you need a new LCD screen. Sorry friend. Here is some information about your problem in a very unlikely place. scroll down to Choosing a display. http://www.penny-arcade.com/hookup_17.php3
Caveat to the original poster--I know nothing about your Dell LCD display, and haven't looked at your video...
Back in the DirectX 7 era, there were a number of video drivers that would use huge pushbuffers/command buffers so that you could actually have 10 or more frames worth of rendering scenes queued up before they would make it to the screen. (It's one of those naughty driver tricks that helps certain benchmark scores at the expense of actual users). It often was the case that as long as you locked the frame buffer once per frame (as older games did to display UI/overlays) it would force it to actually display in real time, but if you stopped doing that (which was what you were supposed to do for max performance) you could get as much as three seconds behind on some systems!
Anyways, I thought that those problems were behind us, although I haven't been all that up on PC video driver stuff for a few years... However, as the parent to this post says, if the problem was due to the actual LCD response time, it wouldn't look like latency, but instead more like ghosting/smearing. I'd definitely try it on another PC first before blaming the monitor...
If you're seeing ghosting, that's just the way LCD monitors are. http://www.tomshardware.com/ Check out this site for benchmarks on new LCD monitors, they're pretty extensive. I have a Philips 170S, and there's some ghosting, but it's so minor, I don't even really notice it. But if the lag is as you describe it, check out your drivers on your system, could be something messed up.
I can't spell ripburger
Buffering: 1%
I think I would return that one. :)
Shawn's Tech Articles
Get a slower mouse.
Since when was /. an online PC troubleshooting forum? Any doofus knows LCD screen don't suffer from "lag" -- why doesn't he call Dell or ask on a newsgroup, not take out an article on the front page of Slashdot???
I have this exact same monitor, I'm using it right now, and the most fantastic thing about this particular monitor (the 2001fp) is its lack of delay in the screen output. I'm using an optical mouse, granted, but I don't understand your issue...
There is an obvious solution to your problem of wanting to be the king of the hill at FPS games:
PwN more nubs!
But really, as I'm sure other people replies are indicating, this doesn't seem to me to be an LCD problem, but one more unique to your hardware. I play Counter Strike fairly competitively with a 19" Planar 191, and also with a wireless Logitech mouse and keyboard. Neither seem to affect my twitching, although there is a bit of ghosting on the Planar, and if idle with the mouse for ~30s, it sleeps and it takes a good jiggle to awaken it. Hope you figure out the problem
This monitor has a 16ms pixel response time. That ultra low. The best way to test new hardware/peripheral...try plugging in to another PC. Maybe some frigged up some settings on your current PC.
What's this... free training for TECHNICAL SUPPORT?
Fuckers,
Letter
Dell buys parts from the lowest bidder. Ergo, they are the lowest quality. Therefore, you need a better monitor.
Rockhound (Steve Buscemi): You know we're sitting on four million pounds of fuel, one nuclear weapon and a thing that has 270,000 moving parts built by the lowest bidder. Makes you feel good, doesn't it?
(From Armageddon, "worst movie ever")
Get your Unix fortune now!
...and I game quite a bit. Maybe you need to use a USB mouse or get a different video card...
The only problems are the dead pixel on one and weird lighting pattern on another (you can only see it when the screen is black, but still backlit/on).
01100111 01100101 01110100 00100000 01101111 01110101 01110100 00100000 01101101 01101111 01110010 01100101 00101110
in your wireless mouse!
but seriously,
check the batteries
http://www.vtnetworks.net/CrtLcdComparo.wmv
Duhh the simple solution is to bombard the LCD with a tachion emitter and there by de-synch it with the time-line relative to it's mouse. Since we all know that tachions move backwards through time this will allow you to adjust the lag down to a time you find acceptable. Noted side effects would be decreased aging and the ability to see what the enemy will do before they actually do it.
The download is taking forever, anyone have a mirror for this video?
It does.
Then I bitchslap the horny NEC bugger back into submission and tell it to leave my cheapotech Sweex mouse alone. Randy bastard.
Hate me!
DoR> Um, my mouse lags on my Dell LCD.
DoR> How's that gonna' help?
I believe I've had a similar problem on my own computer. The game worked fine with a CRT monitor, then when switching to a LCD monitor I would get a kind of lag like you describe. I found that when I switched the game out of full screen mode and into a windowed mode, it went away. If your issue only happens when doing things that change the resolution on your monitor, I'm guessing you only need to tweak some settings rather than replace hardware.
You might get even better results if you tried using the video card's outputs.
This post written under Gentoo-linux with an SCO IP license.
It seems like this lag thing is contagious...I clicked on that link to play the video and it STILL hasn't started playing, and I'm even using a CRT monitor.
One possibility is that the video is hosted on the computer with the LCD, and that the delay is a result of the Slashdot effect. Not very likey, but possible.
In any case, it basically sounds like this guy is making excuses for why he sux0rs at Unreal Tournament, so he can show his buddies "Look, it's true! It was posted on Slashdot!"
I have the exact same model LCD (Dell 2001FP), and I have had zero problems. I don't know what's wrong with your system, but there's a problem somewhere.
Also, make sure you run it using DVI if possible; it is noticeably crisper than the analog VGA.
I have to counteract your raving about Dell's 20" monitor. I had one, got an exchange, another exchange, another exchange, and finally returned it due to its poor image quality. The problem was that alternate pixel rows had different gamma values, so for midtones you get horizontal stripes. This is sometimes incorrectly attributed to the screen-door effect. This is happens on some other 20" LCDs but not on other monitors in the Dell UltraSharp line. For my money, the Samsung SyncMaster 213T is the way to go.
As for latency, the 2001FP does have the lowest you can get for an LCD. Perhaps you could post some timestamped stills from the video you made so as not to overload your server.
'nuff said.
I have a Dell 2001FP and if anything, this is appraised for its fast response time - 16ms if I remember. I have not seen a noticable delay on any flat panel monitor.
I do however, see very noticables delays when using a wireless mouse - one of the reasons I choose not to use one.
I hope the submitter isn't getting his monitor and mouse confused!
If you can try typing and your typing is apearing exactly after you type it then it is probably your mouse. I haven't had a chance to check on the link so I'm not sure what it looks like.
I had a similar problem with my computer after I bought a wireless mouse. It turns out that I had two computer next to each other that where both using logitech wireless mice. When I moved one mouse it lagged a lot, slowly following what I wanted it to do after a second or so. If I moved that mouse too close to the other computer it started controlling that mouse as well (same frequency of the mice I would guess). But, even if they didn't interfere with the pointer displays on each other, it seemed that the near frequency of the mice caused interference and would cause visible lag.
It didn't happen until I actually hit the connect button on the receiver. So it might not have shown up until you installed new hardware and it recycled the configurations. Try using a standard wired mouse and see if it still happens. Or, at the very least, turn off the other computer and click the connect button on the receiver and mouse to try and realign them. This theory is of course assuming that you have more than one computer in the same vacinity.
My girlfriend and I were both going to drop about $500 each on some 19" LCDs. We were just about to finalize the order when we decide to read up on some of the features. There is a display lag on most LCDs of about 17ms or so. I have heard the 17" LCDs are a little kinder but not by much. So we decided to hold off since both of us like to play FPS.
I am glad I caught that issue otherwise I would have been VERY angry for forking out all that money for S&H and then sending it back. Hopefully soon we won't have that issue
... and have never, ever, seen this problem - and we do push these screens pretty much as hard as you'd want to (it's an aircraft command and control environment). Using either DVI or analogue signals, coming out of Dell hardware (my employer's preferred supplier).
Might be something 2001-specific, but from the description given, that sounds like an issue I'd peg on something else, not on the display.
I actually clicked on the video link, I knew what was gonna happen, but I had faith in the pipe.
http://www.mample.net
Per the anrand tech review linked in the article, a 2100FP with an analog cable running at 1600x1200 will have very laggy displays. Moving to a digital (DVI) cable resolves this. If you do not have a DVI out on your PC, there are quite a few cheap cards today that have DVI out - typically your geforce 4 line of cards.
News for Nerds? Stuff that matters? Neither of these. This belongs in a support forum somewhere, not the front page of /. If it were a group of people having this problem I'd understand, but an isolated incident is hardly newsworthy. Also with so many components involved, a setup problem is much more likely than a manufacturer defect.
These are just the complaints of an anonymous coward though, so feel free to ignore them.
Dude, you got a Dell! What did you expect? Serious screens from serious companies who don't hate their customers don't have that problem. If you have the cash, I suggest getting an Apple Cinema Display -- best of the best.
karma: ouch!
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But as a reseller, I recommend ALL my customers who are thinking LCD to consider Samsung ? Why, Not response time, Not clarity, viewing angle or anything. Purely on Samsungs replacement warranty. 7 Days No Questions asked from customer Invoice. Which considering other panel manufactures consider 'Dead Pixels' as a Characteristic of LCD monitors this policy makes Samsung exceptional. Try telling a customer who just bought a nice new 17" LCD panel that it isn't a failure till 7-9 pixels fail. Not good enough, Thus samsung gets my vote on LCD.
DSLIP Web Design and Content Management Australia.
I got a Microsoft mouse and it was lagging I couldn't figure it out. But once I installed their (increadibly bloated) driver it worked fine.
This is definitly not a monitor problem. dude. it's a driver problem...
Do you have your mouse connected to the USB ports on the monitor? Try connecting it to the computer directly. I had this problem with a game pad connected to the USB ports on my Sharp monitor. USB hubs, or maybe just cheap ones found in monitors, seem to add some lag.
I have never seen any input lag on a LCD. Ever. Plenty of ghosting, but no outright lag.
Insert wit here.
The mouse lag on the LCD monitor seems to be getting slower all the time since he posted to /.-- ya, the one on the computer that hosts the video file.
Hi. I'm running a dual monitor setup with a Dell 2001 FP and a Samsung SyncMaster 172x. After reading the origional post, I checked to see if there was diffrence in lag between the two screens. Although it's never bothered me before, the cursor responds a bit slower on the Dell than on the Samsung.
However, nowhere, and I mean *nowhere* did I read about LCDs having an input lag on them.
You must be running RedHat|Fedora Core...
Ok, cheap shots at the distro that has frustrated and angered me over the years aside. I've used that same Dell FP at work on an SMP pIII with both RedHat and Fedora Core, and there is certainly 0 lag. Well, it must be <10ms because I certainly cannot perceive any lag.
At home I also have a FP display. No lag. Both these setups use Nvidia. At home I'm compiled from scratch.
I'm wondering if your problem could be the video driver, xserver, kernel? Or an unfortunate combination of the three on your specific hardware. What you describe is most definitely not the norm.
It turned out to be an issue with the game engine - on faster pcs that churn out high frame rates, unless the vertical sync is set on the game actually runs 'fast' and the mouse lag is noticeable. Try setting vsync on and see if it goes away? Worked for me.
"Get off the cross - we need the wood" - Tori Amos
I bought a Samsung SyncMaster 171v two years ago, and brought it home fearfully waiting for the ghosting I had heard about with LCD monitors. No such experience. In my day-to-day work I don't notice any GUI delays that can be blamed on the monitor. And even when playing games (like Enemy Territory) the monitor performs beautifully.
But I have seen other people with LCD monitors that don't seem to work as well with fast moving objects. The SyncMaster wasn't a particularly expensive model or anything, but it definitely performs well.
USB mouses can have significant mouse lag in any kind of processor-heavy program. The USB mouse requires more hardware computation than a PS/2 mouse. That's why in games there's an option called "REDUCE MOUSE LAG".
I am defenseless. Use your button. Mod me down with all of your hatred.
I have NEVER had any sort of problem like this with any LCD monitor I've used, and two of them (My Inspiron 8200's UltraSharp UXGA screen, and my 1800FP DVI flat-panel) are both excellent.
IIRC, Dell purchases most of their LCDs from either Sharp or IBM. In fact, I believe over 60% of the world's LCD screens are made by Sharp.
You've got some sort of video driver or other computer problem, or your monitor is SEVERELY defective.
Older LCD monitors (and I mean REALLY old) did have problems with slow on-off pixel transition times, resulting in ghosting of fast motion. But I have not seen this effect in any modern LCD.
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
I haven't encountered any lag on my 1760nx. It has a 16ms response time, on a DVI connection.
no issue with my FP2001. Actually, I love the display. Send me yours for a dual headed system ;-)
Running Suse 9.1 on Nvidia FX 5200 card with Nvidia drivers. Wireless Kensington mouse.
---- join dshield.org Distributed Intrusion Detec
I'll join the chorus of people saying "no". Either it's a problem somewhere else in your system, or a really crappy LCD.
:-), which has made a complete convert out of me.
... "we're stylish and we're not going to let you forget it!").
I used to not like LCD monitors, especially the kind that use the analogue video out, but at work I got an NEC MultiSync LCD 1760v (17", 1280x1024 -- I know, yesterday's news, but a great step up for me
Not only does it have far better contrast and brightness than other LCD monitors I've used, but it has no ghosting of any kind, and tracks the analogue video output of my computer flawlessly. Even the industrial design is great, much better than typical "we've got a really expensive CAD system and no design sense whatsoever" designs, and I'd say on par with Apple's wonderful creations (without Apple's tendency to be a bit poncy
The display gamma seems to be much different than my old CRT, so it did take a bunch of adjustment to get pictures looking the same.
Anyway, 3 thumbs up for the 1760V from me (this model is a few years old I think).
We live, as we dream -- alone....
I have a Boxx workstation mated to an HP L2335, and there's zero input lag whatsoever. In fact, I've never seen such a thing, and I've owned a 2000FP, 2001FP, and Apple Cinema Display in the past.
I am running two on dual Nvidia G4 440. one PCI one AGP and have no issue at all.
I've never noticed any lag on my old G4 PowerBook's built-in display, on my 17" Apple Studio Display at work, or on my girlfriend's 2 Sony laptops for that matter. All have been used with USB mice (Apple and Microsoft) and/or their built-in trackpads. My guess would be that something other than the display itself is at fault.
Hey, will even throw in shipping. :)
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
That's because they don't. Your problem is elsewhere, probably the video card or driver.
I've been using Dell LCDs for 15 months now, without this problem. I personally use a pair of 18" ones, we have a bunch of 17" and 19" as well. I can not report anything similiar to this. We use a variety of DVI/Digital and analog DB15 connections without any noticable problems. I really think you have either a defective video card, or monitor. We even have dual monitor systems without a problem. Better look into it
-Patrick
"They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we."
I built a lazy susan and use a kvm switch to flip back and forth. When I game I use my CRT, when I work I use my LCD.
I actually had this problem in UT2004 with a CRT - then I turned the option titled "reduce mouse lag" on. No more problem. RTFM anyone?
ACs are modded -6. I don't read you, I don't mod you, I don't see you. Don't like it? Don't be a coward.
I recently got a Samsung SyncMaster 712n LCD. I immediately noticed the mouse didn't respond properly. This lead me to believe it had something to do w/ my new LCD somehow. However, I also noticed if i tilted my mousepad, the mouse worked better. So now I assume it's the mouse or mousepad, but I've had the same mouse and mousepad even before this new LCD and I hadn't had any of these issues...so I'm not sure what to think.
Everything is normal now.
The problem with the victim's computer is not a bad display driver. The problem is spyware or a virus.
My advice is to stop visiting those porn sites unless "Playboy Magazine" has certified them.
You're apparently using some form of display mirroring to display the exact same thing on two monitors. (I can't tell as the video is slashdotted...)
Are you using an actual splitter (i.e. the monitors are getting the EXACT same signal from the same video card output port), or are you using a dual-headed card with two video connectors, set up in software to do mirroring.
FYI, the latter tactic cannot in any way be used to judge the monitor, because it could easily be the video card itself that is lagging between outputs. In fact it most likely is considering that other owners of the same monitor have noticed no problems.
If you're feeding the monitors the EXACT same signal, then maybe your monitor is defective, or possibly if you're simply splitting the signals without any buffering or amplification, the LCD is reacting badly to insufficient drive signals. (Similar to how the one-machine-feeds-ten-monitors setups in your local Best Buy are a HORRENDOUS way to demo monitors, as the video quality is degraded so badly by the cabling.)
retrorocket.o not found, launch anyway?
We have purchased 10 of the Dell 2001FPs over the last year. We have not experienced any "input lag" using programs ranging from 3D Cad applications to Doom 3 - in Linux or Windows.
No, but the toaster has been laughing at me. I suspect yours is doing the same.
This is a new one on me, I've never seen LCDs lag like this before. I agree with what others have said about checking your resolution and refresh rates - LCDs are very picky about such things and running it out of spec may be enough to cause this sort of behavior.
:)
Also, if it is unusually cold where you're using this monitor you may be getting lag because of that (LCDs don't respond as fast or as well when they're extremely cold or hot). I would suspect this is not your problem since if your environment is extreme enough to perturb the LCD it's probably extreme enough to piss you off too
Bottom line, get a new LCD if none of the suggestions you've seen already fix your problem - the monitor is probably hosed.
BTW (and slightly off topic), for everyone who thinks CRTs are god's gift to monitors please remember they do have their problems too - luminous trails following light objects across black screens can be very irritating, and I'm sure I'm not the only person who accidentally left a magnetic object too close to the screen and wound up with a big purple splotch on the side for a few days...
/~mikeg
I have a Dell 2001FP that I bought last November. I don't play games on the PC anymore so I don't know what its performance is game wise, but it performs wonderfully on both XP and Linux (Gentoo-Gnome). Either the submitter has some kind of configuration problem or he should RMA the LCD through Dell.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them."
I have never seen or heard of anything like that with LCD monitors, however, the other sysadmins where I work have noticed that Windows XP with Service Pack 2 has been acting like that for them on their Gateway laptops. Dont know if that's related, but it might be.
-- Slashdot, making the Left look conservative since 1997.
he is not complaining about ghosting.
he is complaining a lag in the picture getting showed, the lag doesnt happen with his crt, and the video he put it up is just about showing that by running them side by side.
world was created 5 seconds before this post as it is.
I have a Dell 2001FP and I have not had any such problems with it at all. In fact, I was given the title Jäger Captain Red at a recent lan party while using it to lead my team to victory in Unreal Tournament.
I couldn't see the video since, of course, it's slashdotted. My setup is a 1.3 GHz Athlon with an nVidia Nforce onboard video with dual outputs. My monitors are the cheap Liquidvideo 17" LCDs and I have zero problems as described. My wife has a single similar display and another 15" display is on a PII-400 MMX in the house, all with no delay noticeable. It's not the LCD.
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
"Do the Right Thing. It will gratify some people and astound the rest." - Mark Twain
If it's wireless like mine, that's going to be where the lag is.
I am sitting here typing this on an 2001FP right now, and I don't know what the hell you're talking about. Something is wrong with your driver setup, maybe reinstall your OS and see what happens. I've never noticed a lag on my 2001FP in my life.
Instantaneous mouse response (except for when it sticks due to the swapping).
Does this effect only happen upon mouse movement, or do you detect the same problem while playing a video?
Did you try setting your monitor resolution to 800X600 or decreasing your colors to 16-bit?
Did you try resizing the window with your keyboard (e.g. in Windows using ALT+Space to activate the System menu)?
Did you try seeing what happens with a different OS? (e.g Knoppix)
Did you try changing your mouse drivers?
There are two kinds of people: 1) those who start arrays with one and 1) those who start them with zero.
FYI, I'm using a 2001FP at home (both with a GF4mx and a 6800GT dvi) and experience no visual lag due to the monitor. Doom3 works great, except when the gc lags a bit (50FPS avg, but every now and again it drops through the floor...)
I also use a 2000FP at work with an ATI 9000 and no problems there.
I've got a Dell 2001FP and it's friggen' amazing. The best monitor I've ever owned. During the day I develop on it and at night I play games on it (yes, FPS). I've never had a single problem with this monitor having mouse or any other kind of lag. Double check your video card/drivers.
but seriously, did you check your system for spyware. some of them buggers can hog your CPU pretty bad.
If you don't know what AltaVista is (was), get off my lawn.
between the keyboard and the seat.
The problem with quotes on the internet, is that nobody bothers to check their veracity. -- Abraham Lincoln
I've got a Dell LCD and I've never seen mouse lag as you described. You should return it for another one.
I love it how because of the widespread popularity of computer gaming, the notion of "lag" is ascribed to everything like
Teacher: Where's your quiz?
student: Pencil lag
or
jogger: 5 miles...whew...getting...breath lag
or even
Doctor: Yes, you have constipation
patient: oh, turd lag, gotcha
I had a problem similar to this with my USB mouse and Iiyama LCD monitor (which is usually considered fairly nice) when I played a particular video game: Unreal Tournament 2003. I fixed the problem by going into the configuration options and checking a box titled "Reduce Mouse Lag". This took care of the problem in this one instance, and I have never seen it under any other circumstances.
~ I am logged on, therefore I am.
I used to rulez in quake. Now I'm hopelessly sitting on the bottom. Turns out it's because of my LCD! I thought it was the stuff I smoked.
"Slashdot" and "unbiased journalism" in the same sentence!! COMEDY GOLD GOOD SIR
I'm also exporting the desktop from pII machine in china (I'm currently in Uraguay using my other pII) over my dial up connection....but I'm sure that's not the problem.
damn LCDs!
the original quote is from John Glenn, when he was asked what it felt like sitting atop the rocket, ready to launch:
"I felt about as good as anybody would, sitting in a capsule on top of a rocket that were both built by the lowest bidder." (Senator John Glenn, Colonel USMC, Retired)
Rockhound is applying the sincerest form of flattery.
If you forget about the future, the future will forget about you.
Looking at the driver's source code I think I see the problem:
int update_display(void)
{
if((check_mouse_move()==0){
pause_milliseconds(100);
RefreshDisplay();
}
return 0;
}
> I've never never seen any kind of lag like this in any kind of monitor.
An idiot that posts that gets a +4? What in the hell? If you don't understand something, don't moderate posts about the topic!
All LCD's have a long (in terms of human response) display update lag. They are terrible. It takes a long time to get the crystals to turn. I'm an IT director for a company that does CG animation, and this is why our animators refuse to use LCD monitors. A few of our guys that work only with static images have expensive SGI LCD's, but even those are terrible at handling motion. This is also why your mouse cursor disappears when in motion when using an LCD display.
Again, moderators, stop giving mod points to idiots!
What did you do?
I stopped buying anything from Dell! About two years ago, after I saw what a mess the Inspiron 8200 is.
mefus
In Open Society, GPL Software frees YOU!
However, I have no problems with any kind of lag. This includes all video connections.
After looking at the video the obvious problem is that he's using Microsoft Internet Explorer. Replace your browser.
Yeah that should do it.
What, no SlashDotter has posted this before? Try a different OS, which means different drivers. Radical, but it'd probably work.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
At my dad's office we have a computer powered by a Parhelia hooked up to two UltraSharp 2001FPs (both through DVI...haven't tried it with analog cause whats the point) and I have never seen anything like this. They're just as good as a CRT (for CAD anyway) and the screens are gorgeous. My guess is USAR ERRAR
hahahah... what an idiot. you bought a dell. best of luck getting hold of some brainless Indian who will get you to rip out your RAM, reboot your computer a bunch of times, then tell you it's a software problem and you should reinstall Windows.
/. before contacting Dell tech support.
I'd like to know how an output device slows down an input device. That's some pretty high level trickery.
But I can see why you contacted
When you buy the cheapest shit on the market, don't expect reasonable quality.
moron.
The reason girls and Windows users don't understand UNIX is because all the documentation is in Man files.
I have this monitor (2001FP) and so does my pal. I also have several other LCDs around the house. Your problem is either not the monitor is is an isolated issue.
Can I get my problem posted on Slashdot the next time I am constipated?
_________ Help me get a PSP!
It has probably already been mentioned time and time again, but I will add my voice to the chorus. It is not a problem with the LCD, it is a software problem. Grab a copy of Knoppix etc and see for yourself. You didn't install any driver-type software for the LCD did you? If you did, try removing it as in all my time in the computer industry, I have not come across a single display that needed software to work.
Karma? Hey I just call it as I see it.
Now you've got me curious... No offense to the submitter, but this is obviously an isolated problem. Asking the average wage slave techie down at Best Buy could have confirmed this. Infact, nearly everybody on Slashdot has confirmed it to one degree or another. Soooo... Why is this frontpage news again? Will Slashdot start answering my unique one-shot hard drive problems now too? Hi, my name is Ed and my HDD is making an odd 'kerchunk' sound when it starts up. Have any other Slashdot users noticed this with their HDDs????? Why not? Let's convert the front page to miscellaneous hardware bug reports... Or not?
I'd submit to you that this question should have been handed off to any number of the flatscreen FAQ sites out there, especially given how unique the problem is. We're not exactly talking about ipod batteries here.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
Dude, no human has reflexes like that.
You're either:
a) Not human
b) Jedi
c) Stoned/Drunk
Go become a fighter pilot or something like that.
-- If you try to fail and succeed, which have you done? - Uli's moose
is there anywhere you could post this image? sounds handy to have.
Your CPU is not doing anything else, at least do something.
throw it out and buy a crt unless you absolutly need to save the space. I still cant figure out why people throw away money and buy way more expensive lcd monitors when you can get the same size crt for half and the crt can change res.
will even throw in shipping. :) :)
If your monitor weighs anything close to what my Sony Multiscan does it will be cheaper just to buy an LCD
> What did you do? Wah wah. Here, let me shit a better product out for you.
My new viewsonic 20" (VP201B) is the most amazing thing i've bought in years. I went from the old apple b&w 17" CRT to this thing, and I see not a single downside.
http://www.rustyrazorblade.com
If your system is a dell also, you may have a better time of it starting over, wipe the os, and start afresh, DO NOT USE the dell software, just use the drivers. What video card are you using? Get the drivers from the card oem and not dell etc.
:)
I have found that a fresh install on a dell box with brand new up-to date drivers is faster, and less of a pig. I have an HP Vectra and I did the same thing. The oems attempt to give you "the best experience" for your computer not the fastest/computer.
Then of course there is the lemon rule.
A computer once beat me at chess, but it was no match for me at kick boxing. Emo Philips
When *nobody* on *all* of Google has my problem, my reaction is that I'm doing something very wrong. I wonder why slashdot even publishes this question. I wonder why I'm even responding. I have a Dell 2001FP and have *never* had this "cursor lag" problem. I suggest its your video card, or driver, or maybe your machine has been taken over for use as a zombie. The 2001FP has about 4 different inputs, does the same problem exist on the analog as well as the DVI ports?
That isn't valid C according to the standards. You can't modify a variable twice between sequence points. Since your code does that the behaviour is undefined. It's like having c++ = c + 2 in your code, the result can be anything.
"When you sit with a nice girl for two hours, it seems like two minutes. When you sit on a hot stove for two minutes, it
MAG 17" flap panel, mouse is wireless on a switch. Zero lag. None at all, nor have I ever seen this problem ever before.
Sony Multiscan
Is that kind of like a Chevy Mustang?
Karnal
For some reason, all of my games ran like crap after picking up the display... Game after game simply ran like a slug after the LCD was added to the mix and I couldn't figure out what the problem was.
I finally noticed that if I took my hand off the mouse, things ran smoother.. After some trial and error I discovered my first generation optical Intellimouse Explorer didn't like the USB hub on the Dell monitor (I plugged it into the 2001FP's USB ports to add some slack on the mouse cable). While the problems were not readily apparent on the 2D apps, they were incredibly apparent in the games.
So after moving the mouse back to the PC's main USB ports, everything improved dramatically. It gave me an excuse to pick up that new fancy Logitech laser deal.
www.lonseidman.com
Be "cheap" in your buying habits, and you get what you deserve.
You have bought junk, now live with your decision or pay up
to upgrade.
It's your mouse drivers.
I've got a wireless mouse that has absolutely no lag under Windows - but try playing a DirectX game, and it's got tons of lag. Because I rarely game on that machine, I haven't taken the time to figure it out - but if I plug a regular USB mouse into it, it works just fine.
steve
Oh, you're not stuck, you're just unable to let go of the onion rings.
Is slashdot really the place for tech support? Somebody having problems with their LCD is not "stuff that matters" in my book.
-A
You just reminded me that my path was incorrect for the codec dlls in xine/mplayer/aviplay. Thanks!
/usr/local/lib/ and the darn things want 'em in /usr/lib/win32 ... symlink did it.
;o)
I put em in
Oh and about the monitor... quit whining. Or call dell.
FLR
I second this opinion on the 1760V.
With LCD's, first step before buying is always to make sure the several reviews on it are convincing enough to give it a try. This LCD had a few things that convinced me other than the great reviews saying how great it is for games and movies:
- 16ms pixel response
- high contrast ratio
- a slick look. no gay speakers.
Well since the video is still slashdotted, I'l assume that I've seen it from the description that you've given (pretty straight forward). Only thing I can think of is the monitor's fucked. Really, when you think about it, nothing else could cause this.
- mouse? please. give ME a break. I've used crappy mouses that never ever did anything as close as this
- video card? If it was video card, than this effect would appear also when typing or any input device such as a tablet, camera or whatever.
This is why I think monitor was just a bad one from the production chain. Call dell or sony or whichever brand dell bought it from.
A) You can't "take out" an article on the front page of SlashDot; a moderator has to greenlight it.
B) What the hell is is to you anyway? Skip the damned article if you're not interested.
Is that kind of like a Chevy Mustang?
Not really because it exists.
Why? dunno.. just know I have to do it or the mouse won't work properly.
I'm not anti-social, I'm anti-idiot.
my university recently purchased something like 8 new labs filled with these monitors, and I havent noticed any sort of the lag mentioned in the article. at home i use a samsung syncmaster 172N and i dont notice any of that either. I think it's best to have the monitor exchanged...
fyi, the new school computers run P4 2.8C and my home computer runs P4 3.0C -- but i doubt this has anything to do with my "lack" of lag...
my blog
Since everyone is skeptical, I would like to chime in and say that I'm having the exact same problem (same Dell monitor, too). Perhaps the addition of my specs will shed some light on the culprit.
So far I've tried two different video card setups (both MacOS X on a dual 1GHz g4 power mac). The first was the GeForce 4MX card that shipped with the computer. I was using analog output to analog monitor input. Thinking the lag could be the result of analog to digital conversion, I purchased the ATI Radeon 9000 with digital output.
I'm currently using the digital video output to digital monitor input. The problem is still there. Both cards are AGP, and I never experienced a lag before buying the Dell.
Hopefully this helps. If I've left out something important, let me know.
Sorry, that's my keylogger that's causing the lag; it's writing all your keyboard inputs directly to my web server instead of logging and uploading the log, and that's slowing down your system.
Please type "updateme" on your keyboard, and that will tell the keylogger to automatically update itself. Once it's updated, you shouldn't notice any lag at all.
-- If god wanted me to have a sig, he'd have given me a sense of humor.
i now use a 19" CRT, was really thinking about a flatscreen a while ago, but i used some flatscreens in action beforehand. the main reason that made me really make my decision was when surfing on a page and pressing the middle mouse button, and scrolling down, text became blurey! i know this isn't the same for all LCD's but most Dell ones are like this. i am a LAN party addict and every time i play games on LCD screens i always noticed a slight delay too! it's oh so very slight though! but still wrecks my head after a while!
I am 100% retarded tonight.
That's what I get for driving for 8 hours this weekend... thought you said "multisync"...
Dammit.
Karnal
My LCD's (2 identical units) have no lag over DVI or VGA.
With NTSC video, the delay is noticable. Any video with motion will blur (rolling credits, hockey ads around the edge of the ice - not that it's a problem now.) Audio is completely out of sync, and I need an audio delay somewhere to make things line up.
FWIW, the NTSC input is directly into the monitors, not through an external converter.
I use Macs to up my productivity, so up yours Microsoft!
This was a big problem with passive matrix screens. I've had old-school (black and white) PowerBooks that did this, and my first ThinkPad (365X) did this too.
However, I have *zero* problems with this on any active-matrix screens I've ever worked with. ThinkPad 600E: lovely, crisp screen, no lag, cursor right there where you want it. PowerBook G3: the most awesome LCD I've ever seen this side of a Cinema Display. I even have a cheapy Taiwanese 15" LCD panel, Envision is the brand, and it's splendid. No lag, no lost cursors, nice and crisp.
That sort of thing shouldn't happen with a modern TFT active matrix screen. There is something very wrong with it.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
I have owned several Dell displays and have had no problems. I HAVE had lot of problems with "mice" over the years. In fact I had to replace my first generation Intellimouse optical wireless as it just did not work well with my new system. I would put the blame on the mouse, more than the LCD screen. It's amazing that this obviously minor problem has gotten so much attention: I.E. try another mouse before filming yourself and complaining to the entire internet community. Heck, I was having problems all around till I unplugged my bluetooth adapter.
"Jeremy, you need to get to an internet cafe and cut and paste some appropriate sentiments about me from the world wide
I figured it was Pascal's Triangle, but I had to verify because I'm not gonna go through each iteration by hand. So there you have it.
Slashdot is proof that Sturgeon's Law applies to mankind.
I just got a brand new Dell 2001FP for $640 off of craiglist JUST to prove the point every respectable /. user has already said. There is NO lag associated with LCD hardware. There are several inputs to choose from. VGA has no lag. S-Video has no lag. DVI and Composite should just as well have no lag but I haven't the hardware to test them. I play Battlefront Multiplayer online with no lag even on laggy servers the mouse responds well. I am using a MX700 Wireless mouse in conjuction. My mouse actually does lag when it is low on batteries. Did the person submitting this story check to see if his mouse was blinking? Maybe he was too busy looking at the cursor.
it bugged the HELL out of me... even after reinstalling OEM OS and proper video drivers there was still a lag with both the mouse pad and any external mouse.
only on this one dell laptop (of many i've had) has this been a problem. seems to just be a defect.
Or at least stop blaming the LCD. I have one right in front of me and the cursor moves with the mouse just fine thank you. It's a pretty sad state of affairs when any n00b with no clue on how to configure his computer can get a front page submission here.
This article belongs on computer discussion forums under the topic "Help! I'm a clueless newbie".
Slashdot as we know it would cease to exist!
Slashdot - where else you can be utterly wrong and get hailed as informative and insightful? Yeah, yeah - I meant besides FOX news.
The "lag" is caused by the wireless mouse you are using.
Jesus was a compassionate social conservative who called individuals to sin no more.
Try watching an action movie with some fast karate type moves on your slow LCD. Blurred in the fastest action spots. This is why LCD oems are starting to release 16ms and 12ms models.
I love it! A few years back there was a local psychic who had the same misspelling on the sign out in front of her shop. If she was psychic instead of physic maybe she'd have been able to forsee being made fun of for that misspelling.
Maybe I'm mistaken and you did mean some kind of medicinal mouse? That's what physic means, medicinal. ph is pronounced like an "f", not an "s".
I noticed the topic in the forum said it was like swimming in molasses. You must have not seen the article in Nature that said swimming is syrup is no different than swimming water speed wise. Link: http://www.nature.com/nature/featureoftheweek/
This reminds me of when you're in a 3D Game and your mouse is laggy because you resolution is too high...
:(
Why would the monitor make the mouse lag? The only thing I can think of is there is a problem with your actual computer, and not the monitor... a 9ms response time? That means your eyes have to see approximately 110 frames per second to notice a difference... if I am correct, I remember even 60 frames per second is more than the eye can visibly tell the difference on...
But, I am shying from the point here... you said it was an arbitrary number.. alright.
Open up a 3d game and put the resolution higher than your computer can handle... you'll see the same type of mouse lag. I think you may be searching for answers with the wrong equipment.
You must be new...
Yeah, right.
Dude, it's a Dell.
in girum imus nocte et consumimur igni
LCD's Completely Suck For Gaming!
15" are too small
17" blur like crazy
19" im gonna puke
21" bleeech barf
If I wanted to see trails, I'd spend $5, not $900.
did /. become a public troubleshooting forum? Whats next? having articles that ask how to fix BSOD on Windows boxes?
You buy a Samsung 172x
:D
no more lag
Your problem is isolated to your configuration or your LCD. I have a 2001FP that I use for desktop and gaming, and I've never experienced any problems with response delay; or any other problems for that matter. Dell puts there name on some very nice LCDs and this being the second LCD I've bought from them I should know. The only shortcoming that they have is the visibility of really dark images in a lit room, but that's a problem that all LCDs and a lot of CRTs have. I would even disagree with some of the reviews on the 2001FP that downplay their performance.
I think this is an ATI issue - my friend had the exact same problem on his ATI Raedon 9700 with two CRT's.
In his case only the primary display had no latency.
Oddly enough (not to play fanboy here) this is not an issue on the 6800GT I have.
I have a 2000FP, and there's no lag. I'm also writing this on my laptop (with an LCD) and it doesn't lag either. Both my computers at work have LCDs. No lag. I've used my PC here at home both with LCD and CRT, and there's no lag on either.
Did you perhaps just buy a new, wireless mouse? Wireless mice have lag.
I can't watch your video (it's slashdotted), but it would seem that you have a problem with video mirroring. It isn't a problem with your monitor.
I think the subject says it all.
I'm buyin' up as many SGI 21" Trinnies as I can.
Digital doesn't mean better...
I've had an NEC MultiSync 1760V-BK (the black model) on my desk for about a year and a half now, and I haven't had any problems with it what-so-ever. The reason I bought it is for the pixel refresh time: 16 milliseconds, the fastest of any LCD out there.
I agree with you completely. The contrast ratio is great (400:1 I think) and there is ZERO ghosting (I game daily at 60-90 frames per second; Shooters, RTS, etc).
The only thing that bothers me is the way it renders certain colors, how light cyan or grey will be closer to white at the bottom or top of the screen, but toward the middle (eye level) they will darken. I've found that for these lighter colors, the viewing angle is very important.
If I may ask: what video card / drivers are you using with your 1760V and what are your gamma settings?
Reinvent the wheel only at either a lower cost, greater effectiveness, or your own personal enrichment and satisfaction.
Nope. My brain may be slower (I was sending email to
a colleague at 1.30 a.m.). But - have you checked for *worms* and stuff (try ctrl + shift + escape
and check for stuff like "bargains.exe" etc.)
Sigh. You know what I was doing for a customer on
friday...
I've never noticed any sluggishness on modern LCD's
or indeed submarine stuff. That is old LCD behaviour.
UT2004 feels ok on mine, and just occasionally I hit the zone. Not bad when you consider I'm 45.
Doom 3 on the other hand is a whole different issue. I wish it was an NVidia (scream).
I'm running the same Dell screen here, and whilst build quality is pretty crappy (as is usual for Dell), there's NO lag.
Make sure you're using DVI input though - you WILL get lag via VGA and it'll look pretty damn fuzzy too.
If you're using DVI and still getting lag, then your problem is elsewhere - suspect your graphics card or drivers.
My TV does it when the digital input (HDMI)is being used, but not when I use the regular TV in. I'll bet it's the digital decoding that's lagging the monitor.
people who DONT notice lag on LCD are blind.. but ofcourse there are diffrences.. some monitors will have more ghosting in some games than others.. but reality is that LCD is simply TOO FUC*ING SLOW compared to CRT.. also the color reproduction sucks.. it cant display true black..I mean most panels are 6bit.. find me a panel thats reasonably priced that even comes close to the color capabillities of a CRT... and that is as FAST as a CRT.. it does not exist..LCD can go sit in a corner.. I have a LCD myself and for officework its great. picture is very stable.. but gaming and graphics.. forget it..so I keep a CRT for that and then theres that PIXEL DEATH issue.. goddamn annoying..
so.. all diehard LCD fans that completely disagree with anything I just said needs to go see a doctor cos your in denial!
I'm using an LG1710S and everything seems fine.
.264 pixel pitch, .16ms Refresh)
System Details:
XF86 4.3.0.1 (debian testing)
Nvidia FX5600, 256M
LG 1710S (17",
LG says
These are very cheap in Australia right now. I paid $625 for mine around 4 months ago or so, and todays prices are $555 at computer parts land Very good place (in Melbourne)! Must be the cheapest place in Australia to buy hardware.. Apparantly people come from tasy?
Anyways, thats off topic, but if you need a new monitor, i recommend that one, or the 19" version!
Giving IE users a taste of their own medicine since 2005 - http://pods.-is-a-geek.net/
Followed by:
- a slick look. no gay speakers.
"Man in spandex" makes perjorative reference to homosexuality... methinks we have someone with some serious identity issues here. It's okay brother, embrace your inner woman...
Dell uses only the LG electronics screens for their 2001fp. This is an excellent screen with very good pixel response times. I know it would be a lot to ask for a slashdot poster to do some fucking research before responding, but please try to try?
Start
Control Panel
Mouse
Un-check 'LSD like mouse trails'
The only time I have ever seen this problem is when something is useing/stealing LOTS of CPU cycles. Try using an anti-virus program on your system and put in a decent firewall. Rookie.
Ok, I didn't RTFA, or _everyone's_ comments, but I had a similar sounding problem when I installed newer drivers for my gf4, my mouse was all laggy. Using older drivers fixed it. This under running XP. This was using a CRT...
printf("Goodbye cruel world!\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b\b");
because he chose to buy something from a cheap companies such as Dell. Everybody knows that they use cheap parts to make their monitors so that they can sell them at a cheap price.
Why do you think that other brands can sell their monitors for up to 50% more? You get what you pay for.
---
send spam to this address
info@china-inflatable.com.cn export@china-inflatables.com.cn
Apparently there's a lot of fucking pricks out there on Slashdot. Yah, this guy made a mistake, something every damn one of you has done before. Don't label this poor guy a loser. You all are looking like a bunch of mother fucking heartless bastards; you're hypocrites. It's people like you that make the world hell for everyone... Forgive me, it just disturbs me seeing all this hate coming from mere humans...
Is it an IBM Deskstar?
Or were you talking about your 3.5 inch "floppy"?
It's nothing, but I feel wasting 400+ posts on such a "problem" is simply ridiculous. I just wanted to avoid and not even read in, but it just annoyed me after a while.
Maybe mums will also start to come around asking what to do with used pampers.
The same what this guy should do with his mouse.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
I notice no more lag then I do on the 17 inch Viewsonic that sits right next to it (Dual head system). So no, no lag here!
Some DELL monitors have been known to have a switch on the back labeled "Disable cool lag effect," the ones shipped directly from Japan are labeled as "Off of turn no more swishy."
You might try that.
Now, I'd like to ask. I bought a boat recently (I think they're cool). Only problem is, the damn thing won't go very fast on land. Help? Anyone?
The following sequence seems to do the trick w/ GIMP 1.2.x:
That should get you a checkerboard pattern on a 1-pixel increment. I haven't seen what this does for an LCD monitor's ability to fine tune an analog signal (since I don't own such a display), but I think it's the pattern you're using. It's the same fill pattern the old monochrome Macs used for their desktops. LOTS of edges to sync on, on every line! :-)
--JoeProgram Intellivision!
Just run your X server with no programs. It displays this by default.
I submit articles about the chips in "missile defense" systems being faulty, and they're shelved. Someone incorrectly configures their cheap monitor and it makes front page? WTF?
Here's the amazing answer: If it sucks, take it back.
Shit.
I don't have any problems with my 2001 FP, but I have my mouse plugged into the PC, not into the monitor.
Another shining example of Slashdot going down the toilet as a source of useful knowledgable and researched technical information.
I just don't get it. This is the most basic thing you check with the LCD display.
Some people out there still look for higher vertical refresh rate at LCD. *sigh*
Common features:
Diagonal
Color quality/reliablity [1]
GFX input capablity. (VGA/DVI/S-Video etc)
No missing (dark) pixels.
Important with CRT:
Maximum resolution
Maximum Vertical refresh rate at resolution you most frequently use.[2]
Image sharpness
Black pitch [3]
Flatscreen/Trinitron(cyllinder)/Sphere screen.
Important with LCD:
Default (non-interpolated) resolution [4]
<b>Pixel switch-on time</b> (display lag)
Pixel switch-off time (ghosts)
Vieving polarization angle[5]
Maximum brightness
Working temperature range
backlight LED lifetime [6]
[1] These ARE different. LCDs have sugar-sweet beautiful colors, that can't be repeated in print, that's why LCDs are the worst choice for a graphician, while your average end user will enjoy the more-than-lifelike graphics immensely
[2] On CRT image at 25HZ hurts your eyes badly. On LCD you can freely read books at 25HZ, the refresh rate doesn't mean cycles between switching the image on and off, but between changes to constant content.
[3] Is black really black or just a shade of grey?
[4] LCDs have one fixed resolution at which they look great, all the other resolutions suck as computer output pixels don't match display pixels.
[5] If you don't look straight ahead at the screen, some colors just go dark on some screens.
[6] LCD doesn't shine. LCD switches half-transparent pixels on and off, masking the white backlight LEDs off. Without backlight you'll see hardly anything. It's the backlight that eats up most of your batteries too. And it's the LEDs that die first if the screen doesn't get broken/scratched etc first.
Anagram("United States of America") == "Dine out, taste a Mac, fries"
Since you're posting a wmv (which is bad attitude) I can't watch it. But from your description I'd say that's very strange indeed.
/., do please have the common decency to use a video format that's open and free for all to watch. Thank you.
I guess you're using Windows XP. It could be that the Monitor specs/drivers are changed automatically when you switch back and forth and that the one for that LCD causes the lag. Monitors are Plug and Play too, so that's very likely. I'd say you do the Knoppix test some others have recommended already. It could also be an USB Hub in the Monitor (again, don't know if you have one because you've posted a wmv) that causes trouble (interference) via the USB port when the panel is on, thus distorting and lagging the mouse signal.
Those are my two guesses.
And once again, if you think it's a good idea to post stuff like this on
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
It could actually really be the LCD lagging. In order to interpolate different resolutions than the "natural" one, they have to buffer the signal. Maybe somethings wrong with that?
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
I've seen loads of LCD monitors in action and never seen anything like that.
The company I work for is replacing the CRT's in its computerised signalboxes with LCD panels, they wouldn't be doing this if there was a time lag issue with such monitors. It would become a safety issue when you are controlling high-speed train movements.
If you ask me, its definately a problem with the OP's setup. After all, would LCD's be seeling in such numnbers if it was a known problem?
I've noticed LCD lag in some games like BF42 and Far Cry. However, Doom 3 didn't seem to have this issue. It is not a mouse issue as alot of people seems to suggest as tried different mice, both USB and PS2, and the result is the same. Also, when I switch back to a CRT there is no lag with an otherwise identical setup. I haven't been testing this enough to figure out what is causing the lag, but so far it has made me hang on to my 24" trinitron for playing FPS. I'm hoping to go LCD only soon as CRTs are just too bulky, but I have to figure out this issue first. My guess it is that it is a bad combination of driver, game/program(how the driver is used) as well as resolution and refresh rate.
"Presses on back switch say 'off of turn no more swishy' so make sound 'kya!'"
My talents are many.
VERY old LCD monitors were noticeably slow (not entirely sure if it's the same problem you're describing). I haven't seen this problem lately. I don't go around looking at LCD monitors though so I can mostly speak for mine - apple 23 inch, connected via DVI, video card is ati 9800 pro, I am using it with linux (including watching openGL xscreensaver hacks) and for gaming on windows, I also watch DVDs on this monitor. As far as I can tell it's fast enough, never noticed any difference between this one and CRT as far as the speed goes.
erik
...all excited, don't know why...
Also, laying off the narcotics for a few days might help.
the lag in ms is really a sellingpoint in europe. I got one with 16ms... I had one of those dell screens, and it had something in the range of 45ms... Which means my screen had a higher latancy than my Internetconnection! Sell the screen and buy a new one... Do some research this time... (I bought mine because the price, about 100$ 1½ year ago)
...I suspect I know where your problems come from.
- Hanno
Sounds like it could just be some LCDs, but either way they are far from perfect, useless for any graphics work because you cant tell what colour/shade you're looking at and the price makes them only for people not still on student loans (percentage of slashdot?). Its a good point though and if i ever get one ill be sure to check it out first.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
because mouse lag would phuc any mesh editing op with measurable effect.
This perpetual motion machine Lisa made is a joke, it just keeps getting faster and faster. - Homer
Actually, the 2001FP is by many considered one of the best (if not the best) flat panel displays around for gaming. Let me as an example quote the final sentence of Anandtechs review: "We are very pleased to pronounce the 2001FP our new big LCD champion over the Samsung 191T and 192T."
The poster is just a poor trouble shooter, the actual display is clearly not the culprit. To be able to introduce noticable lag, the monitor would be required to cache several full-screen frames at 5½MiB each. This would require a large capacity high-speed memory on board.
Perhaps he is using the display's USB hub? Many USB hubs introduce a slight lag.
I have the 19" version of that monitor on my Dell; a 1280x1024 60Hz LCD, but I don't supper from this lag. I use my computer to play UT 2004 alot so I shoul have noticed such a lag I guess. Might it be the gfx card you use ? I have a ATI Radeon 9800 PRO 128 MB on it.
We have several of these hooked up to Matrox DVI cards (G550) in either single or dual-head config with Windows XP. We have had no issues like what you descibe and I would suggest that this is a problem with your operating system / graphics drivers.
Have you tried reinstalling the O/S or moving the TFT to a different PC?
Must be a slow news day today... this is tech support stuff, *not* slashdot material!
If the mouse were the problem it would be a problem on both his LCD and his CRT.
If you watch the video you will note that he actually has both monitors hooked up at the same time showing the difference so I am tempted to think the mouse is not the issue.
]{
...
"What's this 9000 metre length of cable with 20 repeaters on it for?"
"Dude, that's my mouse cable..."
A hundred and twenty characters ought to be enough for anyone...
I had this problem crop up when I first got a GeForce 3 based card on my CRT. The lag showed up in Half-Life and other games. I turned off anti-aliasing, and everything went back to normal.
Some ASUS boards, (eg A7V8X-X) support advanced IRQ management - when the board runs out of IRQs, it creates virtual interrupts and assigns them instead :) Very handy, I currently have somewhere between 20-25 IRQs on my system :)
It's Microsoft fault! Heh, this is /., right?
:-)
In certain configurations, Windows draws slower than usual in two monitor configurations. This is particularly visible when the window being drawn overlaps two monitors and the monitors use different settings. It does not matter which monitors -- it depends on the resolution of both monitors and the drivers used.
Switch to Linux and the problem will go away
on Asus Geforce4 TI 4200, overclocked and DVI
I have not that problem with my display. This is maybe redundant, but I want to show that there are many that does NOT have these problems.
Monitors are not Hz anymore. They are milliseconds. This means how fast a pixel can change.
A standard monitor is 25ms, and thus is far to slow for action gaming, like Counter-Strike and similar.
What you need is a low-ms screen. They are often maximum 17" and you should have as low ms as possible.
It seems to me that PC magazines do not check this when they rate LCD screens. All they compare is how bright they are and colours.
I have several friends that have burned themselves like you have now. Their monitors lags and they get killed easily in multiplayer games.
It's about time PC magazines check this out.
I have a Dell 2001FP. Its nice and sharp at 1600x1200 and while its not the best TFT on the planet it is cheap and I see no lag running bzflag at 1600x1200.
really, people, get a clue.
--- Back to the trees, back to the trees !
Is this front page article evidence of an emerging kinder and gentler slashdot for AOL/MSN/Yahoo drones?
Maybe it's time for something like slashdot jr?or AOL_Dot?
I've recently upgraded all my NT servers at work with W2K3 and noticed on the older, slower hardware such as Proliants and Dells with ~500MHz P3 cpus (yep, we'll be running these till they die, they're still doing their job ok) there is a significant, almost comical amount of mouse lag, even on standard CRT monitors. I attribute it to simple OS bloat.
Switch off, go outside, smell the fresh air and look at the real world (with no lag unless you're 'on something') through your inbuilt biochemical display rendering system.
Go back inside and make yourself a fresh coffee (or whatever takes your fancy) - open a draw - look - there IS a spoon.
Welcome to the real world.
AT&ROFLMAO
You should always buy an lcd monitor with the fastest response time. I have a NEC LCD1765, it
has a resonse time of 6ms. Fast enough for no mouse lag, and fast enough for 3D gaming!
I bet you are around 25ms, that's slow enough to get mouse lag.
I have 3 of these monitors, 2 connected by DVI, one by VGA - and they all work perfectly... perhaps the problem is not with the monitor but the computer?
Like others I have this monitor. It is easily the best monitor I have ever had. No Ghosting or any sucj nonsense. 1. Hooked up through DVI. 2. No USB plugged into it. 3. Current Video drivers. 4. Running at the Native 1600x 1200 resolution. Tastes Great! Less Filling!
First of all, did you actually watch the video? If you did, then you would know that it couldn't be the mouse. The video shows a desktop spanning two displays--a CRT and an LCD. He drags a window and we see the difference between the LCD and the CRT. All with one mouse. So that can't be it. Don't get me wrong, I still don't blame the screen one bit. This sounds like a video card issue or drivers or whatever. Hell, he could have the CRT on the analog VGA output and the LCD on the DVI output and maybe there's a problem with the DVI. Who knows. But it ain't the mouse. -Bill
Libertarian: label used by embarrassed Republicans, longing to be open about their greed, drug use and porn collections.
As someone who plays games, how do you not research LCD monitors enought to figure this out before buying one. Did you go out and buy a wireless mouse 3 years ago, also?
I've been waiting for an LCD that doesn't do this for years... Now that they finally exist in the marketplace, I'm waiting for the price to drop.
As others have suggested, improvements may be attained through DVI, monitor drivers, vid card, etc.
I have recommended this monitor several times and the people I know who own it are quite satisfied. It's one of the best I have seen.
I have a fairly cheap LCD TV / Monitor, and I can see a small lag when I don't send the audio through the TV: I think the TV's audio subsystem includes a small delay to compensate for the video lag. But it's very short and not serious, only becomes obvious when the input signal is poor. I recall a report - I think it was in Sound On Sound (paper magazine) about how lag had been seen in recording studios with plasma screens. They use dedicated audio mixers and monitors, so when synchonizing audio to video the lag became noticeable, and they had to look for alternatives for frame-accurate sync. 1 frame at 25fps = 40ms - a real issue in some cases. I concur with the need to check the specs, I'm now seeing LCD monitors where "quick response" is in the marketing, e.g. Samsung LTN-325W.
(this is not a
Oh come on. I'll join in with most slashdotters and say this article is pretty crappy and I cant believe its front page news.
1) I have the exact same monitor
2) I have a USB laser mouse (Logitech mx700)
I've NEVER noticed any sort of "lag" with the mouse and I've had no problems playing FPS games.
Why immediately blame the monitor and post this to slashdot!? I also love how a lot of the anti-Dell slashdotters immediately jumped on the "dell-crap-is-junk" bandwagon.
I love this monitor.. it kicks ass. Worth every penny I paid for it (or well.. my company paid for it).
I'm at work right now, and I have two Dell 2001FPs running dual-monitor. I was able to replicate *exactly* what's shown in the video--when dragging a window that spans both displays, the window moves faster on the primary display (on the left) than on the secondary display (on the right).
It's not the monitor. It's not CRT vs. LCD. It looks like that's the way Windows deals with multi-monitors.
I humbly suggest that the article submitter swap his displays and use the LCD as primary, and see if the CRT then displays the lag. Bet you dollars to donuts that it will.
....there's nothing to see here.
Since when did Slashdot start providing technical support to any lame anonymous noob that asks for it?
The noob obviously is using DVI, and it's the video card that is the problem.
Stupid. Just plain stupid.
Despite what EULAs say, most software is sold, not licensed.
remove the usb connection from the monitor to your computer. plug your mouse directly into the pc, not the monitor.
reboot, if necessary.
Here's an experiment, type a bunch of text in your favorite text editor or play some audio files with a low-impact spectrum analyzer - if both of these sync properly, then you'll know not to blame the monitor. Also, check video drivers, plug another monitor in for testing... Troubleshooting is your friend.
-- In Soviet Russia, radio listens to YOU!
First of all, thank you, everybody, for taking a look at this. I received a characteristically Slashdotty wealth of "you're an idiot" replies, and a good number of "I didn't read the full article and/or watch the video so I'm jumping to conclusions" replies as well. =) Those of you that read the article and offered your genuine insight, thank you.
It's all fine, though. I'd like to answer a few randomly culled questions here, and also summarize what I've found based on all the feedback so other potential LCD owners can get a better feel for what they're up against.
The overall summary, which you may or may not agree with is: Most LCDs are laggier than CRTs (I'd be jumped in an alley if I went as far as to say *all* LCDs are, but I try to avoid sweeping generalizations). Do your own tests, and come to your own conclusions. If you're a gamer, be careful. And lastly, my Dell 2001FP may in fact be one of the laggiest LCDs in existence, *or* I just received a defective unit.
Thanks again, everybody, for the replies. I hope this helps some people. I know that I at least saw one person in the comments that learned something new, although it was, in fact, for something unrelated to the immediate post. =)
If you're running games at the native resolution of your display (1600x1200), the most probable reason for the lag you're seeing is that your video card simply can't keep up. It takes a pretty beefy video card to push that many pixels per frame. Try cutting the resolution to 800x600 and see if your results improve.
Another thing to try would be toggling the "vertical sync" option in your video card's advanced properties. This option specifies whether your video card synchronizes frames with the monitor's refresh. Your CRT probably refreshed at 100Hz, and your LCD is probably just 60Hz, so vertical sync could be slowing you down even if you haven't increased your display resolution.
IIRC, the infamous "code to explode a monitor" trick involved setting monitors to refresh rates that the monitor could not handle, causing the monitor to burn out or, in extreme cases, explode. It was a small subset of the monitors, but it was one of those things that made it into popular lore. I belive they even referenced it in Cryptonomicon, having a character who supposed had his face mangled by an exploding monitor triggered by a virus of some sort.
This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.
It turned out his keyboard had a faulty K key, and the K was not appearing on his screen either.
And thus the GNOME project was born...
The poster of the article mentioned that this happens to other LCD screens in the house. Could it be an electrical problem?
Just bought this a couple weeks ago, no noticable lag here!
Absolutely love it (and the 3 year warranty)! No more CRT's for me.
IIRC, the interrupt controller ORIGINALLY used in the IBM PC (Programmable Interrupt Controller? I think that was what the part was called) could, in theory, cascade to as many interrupts as your heart desires.
So why did they stop at so few?
Need vs. cost. Most people (i.e. the masses) don't need very many interrupts. They are going to play a few games, check their mail and that pretty much covers it.
So, what do you expect from a low cost platform but low quality specs? Blame the masses and the designers. Much like getting cheap coffee - you get what you pay for.
IANAL, but I've seen actors play them on TV
Two ways to check if it's really your monitor:
1- Do you see the same lag when you're entering text from the keyboard? If the text appears right away, you can't really blame the monitor. Do you have a USB mouse? I've seen USB mouse lag on my CRT.
2- Hook up a projector while the monitor is still attached. Are the two screens in sync?
-M
is to avoid itchy trigger finger games and stick with games like Myst and Sim-City (or Sim-xxx). I think there might be something wrong with your hardware or drivers though, because my cheap LCD is plenty fast enough for Tux Racer, Moto Cross, LBreakout. I can't detect any difference from my CRT displays.
First: As many people have said, this does not belong on the front page.
Second: I once had a problem where exactly the same sort of lag was occurring... on my CRT. It was only in games and turned out to be a problem with DirectX. That leads me to believe that your problem is in software somewhere.
Third: Provided you can't seem to fix things with drivers/nuking windows/whatever I'd suggest looking into a new graphics card (with a DVI out) since last I checked they could be had for significantly less than the cost of an LCD monitor like that.
However, nowhere, and I mean *nowhere* did I read about LCDs having an input lag on them.
Perhaps there's a reason for that?
And how would it be possible for a monitor to have an "input lag" anyway? This is hilarious.
Seems to me that nowadays you need to compromise.
You can have a 6-bit LCD with 12ms response time (like the Samsung 172X (with the LTM170EX panel) or an 8-bit LCD with 16ms response time.
If you happen to drive your CRT at 60Hz, then this means a refresh period of about 16.7ms, or a screen update delay of on average slightly more than 8 milliseconds.
It so happens that LCD screens are normally run at 60 Hz or so. Therefore, they indeed have an 8 millisecond "input lag". No surprises here. In addition to this delay, there is the pixel reaction time which is currently at least 12ms. So on average there is at least a 20ms lag between mouse movements and pointer updates. It is physically impossible for a human being to "see" this delay in such a small-area change as a mouse pointer. You are kidding yourself.
Not being able to see the video right now due to slashdotting, I can only say this: I have one of these too, and have never noticed any lag (I have machines hooked up to both DVI and Analog inputs, but am using a PS/2 mouse).
If you are using a USB mouse through the monitor's USB-hub, try plugging it directly into your computer. Also try if running the monitor at its native 1600x1200 makes a difference.
WTF is dude talking about. The unsuitability of LCD's for gaming is well known, and even if it wasn't you can look at the refresh rates and the blur on the screen and tell. Is this really the level of comment that goes up on the slashdot front page? Users who don't do there homework before buying hardware get featured? This is pathetic.
My 23" Cinema Display has zero problems. My 15" Powerbook works great as well, both separate and when used attached to the CD. Go Apple!
in bed.
So, of course, it got opened.
Specifically, I was curious about the fact that I was able to plug the thing directly into my (very) old graphics card which was built before there were such things as desk top flat screens, and actually have it work.
The signal being output by a graphics card is designed to be understandable by the average computer CRT. --Which, (when I've opened those in the past), don't contain a whole lot of extra electronics beyond on-off switches and very basic control systems. That is, with a standard CRT, the signal from the graphics card in my compy pretty much feeds directly into the electron gun and magnetics control system of the CRT monitor with very little intermediary electronics in between. All the really clever electronics is done by the graphics card back in the tower case.
So. .
Since TFT monitors work on a radically different principal than CRT technology, this means that the output signal from my old graphics card, (which I'm guessing is analog), must be translated into a very different type of signal which can be interpreted by the TFT screen electronics, which I am guessing is a digital signal.
This would mean. .
The original image dreamed up by the computer is digital, then converted to analog by the graphics card so that the CRT can apply it, and then because there is no CRT, it is converted back again into a digital signal for the TFT.
Oh yeah. Now that's efficiency!
And it worried me, actually. When I was shopping for my flatscreen, I was bugging sales people, "So are you SURE I don't need some kind of proprietary graphics card to run this thing? If that's the case, then I'm no going to get a flatscreen. I need a GOOD graphics card. Not some hunk of standardized junk made by the flatscreen manufacturer!"
The sales guys always just shook their heads. "No sir. You just plug it in."
"Oh. .
But what do you know? I plugged it in, and no problem. It worked like a charm. So, like I said, I had to open it up.
When unscrewed and pulled apart, voila! Unlike the guts of a standard CRT, there before me inisde the TFT was a whole LOT of extra circuit board and chip set confusion sitting between the monitor cable plug and the flexi-cable which feeds into the actual screen system. So there is some serious signal in interpretation going on! --And none of it, I imagine, would be industry standard; each CRT to TFT signal converter is probably designed and built by whoever happens to be making the flatscreen. This extra engineering necessity provides a whole pile of room to make bad decisions and crappy electronics.
My guess is that this is where the lag you are experiencing is coming from.
For my part, I was fortunate in that Samsung did the job well. I ended up with a system which works invisibly, with no perceivable lag between any input and screen output. Perhaps you can sell your screen off on Ebay and get a better monitor.
Of course, the problem may be something else entirely, but that's my two cents. Hope it helped!
-FL
When the resolution is set to 60Hz which is the lowest, the screen flickers. That is a fact.
I know. BTW, you think that's bad? The first computer I used was a ZX81 (Timex/Sinclair 1000 with 1K) attached to a PAL TV. Which has a 50Hz refresh rate... and black-on-white text.
If what you say is true, this explains why my eyes are fucked. OTOH, it could be that all the exercise makes your eye muscles stronger, like going down to the gym.
"Yeah, I *did* know that my display can go higher than 60Hz; I'm giving my eyes a workout. I'm doing a drop-set. When they can't take 60Hz any longer, I'll turn it up to 65Hz, then 72Hz... See that guy over there with the black-and-white TV with no vertical hold and bottleful of protein shake? He's the Mr.Universe of the eyeball world. I swear it's true."
"Slashdot - News and Chat Sites Deviant". (Click "homepage" link above for details).
I didn't get a chance to look at the model of your LCD but mouse jumping is a common problem with Active matric displays. Yes I'm an anonymous coward.
Get it yet?
yeeeeesh.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
If you want a fast LCD monitor, then you have to buy one that has it. Different manufacturers have different pixel response rates. You have to shop for a good one just like anything else. Cheaper monitors tend to have the worse response times whereas more expensive ones tend to have better response. Just because they are using new technology that is currently more expensive to produce. Here is a Buying type guide from CNet
"LCDs have sugar-sweet beautiful colors, that can't be repeated in print, that's why LCDs are the worst choice for a graphician."
Let me add a correction to this. Until recently, LCDs were always a poor choice for a graphic designer, because they had poor contrast (darker colours in particular would all appear black) and very poor colour accuracy, especially for light and dark colours. My Thinkpad, for example, shows bright pastel green as more of an orangish yellow.
Nowadays, however, the more expensive LCDs (like those sold by Apple) are fine and even superior for graphic design.
Note that the larger-than-print range of colours is not a problem; or rather, it's a problem for CRT monitors as well. A graphic designer always has to be aware that certain colours cannot be reproduced with process printing.
I'm a happy owner of a 2000FP (the prior version) which I got at a damn good price. Noting that many /.'ers are also FatWalleters, you probably got a decent discount on the 2001FP. Dell's FP monitors are good business displays. They're not designed to be gamer displays. Don't expect 25ms response time, expect 50-100ms, depending on the contrast and color change. I get a little ghosting, but it doesn't matter on my Excel spreadsheet. And it still looks good playing the new Star Wars DVDs.
As for your problem, re-install! You've got a software problem, not LCD latency issues.
Choiski
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=%22t urd+lag%22
take your shiny new LCD and plug it into a different computer that you know works just fine. Also swap cables with one that you know works just fine. Try taking your cable and hooking up between a different computer/lcd that works fine.
If at this point you still have a problem see if it is a driver problem, try on a computer with a different OS.
If you do all of these things and still "lag" then go and get your money back.
P. S. consider calling tech support, sometimes they are actaully helpfull.
Selling software wont make you money, selling a service will.
I still won't trust LCD monitors with gaming... CRT all the way!
16 ms is the slowest you should have. I do notice slight slowness in lcd's even at that speed
http://www.npcgaming.com Dedicated Gaming Servers
I am using a 19" Samsung LCD with DVI and an ATI AIW9700 and I agree with the last post DON"T BUY DELL!!
Yeah, my mouse is all laggy too when I play morrowind at 1600x1200 on my p3-500 with a TNT-2 vid card.
None of them can see the clouds; The polished wings don't care.
Absolutely no delay on the mouse movement but sometimes you can notice delay's on video especially if there is a lot of action going on, I would try to take it back if I where you but this is easer said than done as stores consider a certain amount of dead pixels or bad performance as acceptable in LCD screens. I would advise against buying any sort of flat screen unless you really really need to save space you can't beat a CRT for quality and price.
Saying Apple is better than MS is like saying Botulism is better than rabies.