Slashdot Mirror
U.S. to Require Passport To Re-Enter Country
The Hobo writes "The CBC is reporting that starting in 2007, most Canadians will require a passport to cross into the United States and by 2008 Americans who crossed freely into Canada will be unable to return to the United States without a passport. The tougher new rules still allow Canadians to cross without being fingerprinted, but every person from any other country will be required to submit to fingerprinting." From the article: "Currently, Canadians and Americans are able to enter the United States with little more identification than a driver's licence or a birth certificate, though a passport has sometimes made it simpler to satisfy immigration officers at the border."
What's the big deal? Canadians and Americans still don't need passports to get home, nor do they need to worry about fingerprinting.
If you're an American without a passport, just come back through California, Mexico, and Arizona. The desert's hot, you'll pick up lots of dust, and after a few days' hiking, you'll have picked up a nice Mexican tan. Se Habla Espanol! You're in!
If you're a Canadian without a passport, remember that you're indistinguishable from the American as long as you remember to pronounce it "owwwwt" (like you stubbed your toe), instead of "oot" (like if you're going oot and aboot), and if you can pretend that Budweiser is beer for a few days. Grab a six-pack of Bud for your American friend and follow him across the desert. Then take a US domestic flight (for which no passport is required) to New York State. Go to the Six Nations Reserve and offer to haul some smokes 'n' booze in across the St. Lawrence. If it's winter, you can even walk home, eh?
Or remotely sniff the RFID off some other poor schlub and just use his passport.
Seriously, what's the big deal? Don't have a passport, go to Mexico, eh? :)
Because, as we all know, passports are never forged. Ever.
I don't see how we are more "protected" than the current system.
What if I lose it?
Americans, leave while you still can.
Take off every sig. For great justice.
Shouldn't be too long before interstate travel in the US requires a passport. That'll finally put an end to criminals moving to another state to hide from the law.
"The great thing about multitasking is that several things can go wrong at once." -me
Isn't this more like "Your Rights Offline" than "Your Rights Online?"
i was able to cross the border just by telling the customs agent where i was going and for how long..
MABASPLOOM!
That'll stop Terr'rists! The 9/11 hijackers had legit ID, sheesh. More scare tactics to make you feel safe as the government takes away your freedom of movement.
no more driving across the peace bridge to get plastered between the fragile ages of 19 and 21? I mean I could but I'd probly forget where I put my passport...
aww who cares by then I'll be 21 anyway
The Answer
We can look forward to the end of the "only 1 in 5 Americans has a passport" troll.
If it ain't broke, you need more software.
Americans who crossed freely into Canada will be unable to return to the United States without a passport Damn, does that mean we're stuck with them then?
"Goodbye, my Canadian friends."
"Goodbye, those funky round flat bacon, hockey teams.."
"Goodbye, to those maple leaf brothers."
The door will go from wide-open to slightly ajar....
(sigh)
to figure out eh who is a canadian eh? im mean eh, it's aboot national secoority eh. so, if it makes the US safer, eh, then it should be okay eh.
My problem? I was perfectly gruntled, until some numbnuts came by and dissed me.
yeah, the global war on terror is used as an excuse for the current regimes totalitarian tendencies. You americans better read 1984.
I grew up in Buffalo, NY so going back and forth to Canada was as regular an occurence as going to the mall. Only once was I asked for any kind of ID whatsoever, and that was because I was with a British citizen. Usually they would just ask you "Citizen of what country" and if you said "USA" they would wave you in.
to NOT travel to the USA
come to canada instead - all of the beauty - none of the ph34r
I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
Is this what he means when he says:
Freedom is on the march(TM)
The CBC is reporting that starting in 2007, most Canadians will require a passport to cross into the United States and by 2008 Americans who crossed freely into Canada will be unable to return to the United States without a passport. The tougher new rules still allow Canadians to cross without being fingerprinted, but every person from any other country will be required to submit to fingerprinting.
Now, it's my understanding that a sovereign country can control their borders in any way they see fit. Perhaps there's some sort of rights argument to be made about the americans who need a passport to re-enter their country, although it doesn't seem like a major issue, but Canadians.. heck, I'm a Canadian, and it doesn't really effect our rights. America can do whatever they want with their borders to non-citizens. If they don't want to let us come in, heck, that really is their perogative.
"There's no success like failure, and failure's no success at all."
- Bob Dylan
Can I stay there?
I bet they will still let people in without a passport. Only Americans would be naive enough to leave their country without one. Thus proof of citizenship!
In high school, I went to the Boundary Waters canoe area (lots of fun - I'd recommend it). We stayed on the US side most of the time, but just there are no controls whatsoever there. We just popped over to Canada for lunch one day.
A fine is a tax you pay for doing wrong and a tax is a fine you pay for doing all right.
With that gaping security hole closed up I can finally sleep at night knowing I'm safe from all the bad people in the world.
What doesn't kill you only delays the inevitable
I've got two - a US one and a Canadian one.
Born in the USA.
It's just a plot by the man to stick us with RFIDs we don't want.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
The article says you can get a special border crossing card so you don't need your passport (at least for Canadiens). So what's the big deal?
The Blaster Master Fighting for Truth, Justice, and Evil Pie since 1979
With all of the crazy bullshit going on in this country right now, why do they think that Americans will WANT to come back? I'm worried about travelling right now, because if I find a place that isn't run by religious fundamentalists, I may just decide to stay!
I don't respond to AC's.
All Soviet Russia jokes aside, it's alarming how much the US resembles the old USSR. Impossible to get in and out of without a cavity search. Anything you say on the phone will be potentially picked up by the government, and privacy is virtually non-existant.
What the hell does this subject have to do with "rights online"? Looks like just another execuse for liberals to complain that the U.S. needs and open-border policy (not that we don't already, considering the millions of ILLEGAL immigrants that are here already)
Not long ago some friends and I went to a show in Detroit and on the way home we randomly decided to take the bridge over to Canada. Upon entering Canada the woman asked us what our intentions were and the person driving said "I don't know, we just want to check out Canada." or something like that. So she waved us on without any other questions or ID checks and we went to Essex and got a pizza.
On the way back, however, the guy asked to see all of our licenses, questioned each of us about a variety of things, and did a search of the vehicle's trunk. All in all it took about twenty minutes. The same thing appeared to happen to the two vehicles before us.
Probably not worth drawing any serious conclusions, but I found the distinction to be rather amusing (:
I submitted the story, and forgot to include this as food for thought:
Think of a typical family of four. My own just did this. Say this family wants to go to Disneyland from Canada. As it stands, my parents were able to go with the young'ns without a problem, and none of them have passports. Tourists from Canada are a part of the US economy. Had the passports been required, it would have cost: 87 + 87 + 37 + 37, plust GST, which is a total of 265.36$, and that doesn't even include the trouble of finding a guarantor and taking passport photos which cost more than normal photos. This is on top of any other travel costs, likely for a single trip. This will most definitely deter Canadians from visiting and spending money in the US. Not to mention that passports take at least 3 weeks to get, ruling out any sudden decisions to say pick a US ski package to a Canadian one. I personally enjoy taking trips to the US, but this makes it much harder, and I'm certain this scenario will be repeated.
There is another kind of evil which we must fear most, and that is the indifference of good men. -- Boondock Saints
Don't mean to be picky (ok, maybe I do), but how is this story about "Rights Online"? Politics maybe. I agree there may be a rights issue. Big Brother Bush wanting to ensure that we all stay adequatly Nationalist and all, but I troll...
YRO, IIRC, is "Your Rights Online". And don't say, "Your reading it online, right?" 'Cause that would be "Your Rights, Online".
Sig
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars
Be very very wary.... the War on Tourism will be a long hard road.... there may even be tourists living on your street. Your next door neighbor may be a tourist, report any suspicious activities. We will not stop until we have eliminated the scourge of touism from our land. They are all around you, checking out our national treasures.
The EU, and the rest of the world, should call the American's bluff on this one.. just not produce the new funky passports to appease the US.
Further, I hope Canada reciprocates and requires americans to have valid passports.
Sounds like a plan for a series of protests against this policy, if people feel strongly enough about it. Pick a day, and a time, and forget your passport. Have literature on each of your cars... (I think it would work better at land crossings where you can tie up more people)...
"Waste not one watt!" - CZ
Used to be freer than that
Man, I've been hearing that my whole life (sigh).
What if Canada deports me? I'm screwed!
In Repressive Burma, it's not just your connection that dies. slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=314547&cid=20819199
I thought thats what passports where used for?
Shows how ignorant I am.
*DrugCheese rants*
As long as they have proper documentation and identification. Otherwise its...
"I'm sorry sir, but your papers are not in order.."
That it's easier to get into the US from Mexico than it is from Canada?! Any terrorist could simply walk across the border into Texas without any impediment by the government. But yet an American citizen will not be allowed cross the Canadian border?! Strange stuff!
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
People going into USA has to submit their fingerprints?! Whoa!
It also helps to be the right skin colour and accent, or at least not the "wrong" ones.
I get waved through all the time too. My cousin, on the other hand, has gotten his car ripped apart.
I drove up to Alaska this summer from the lower 48 so I ended up crossing back into the US a number of times along the way (took some side trips). I would highly recommend taking a passport with you even now. I got a lot of grief from one border patrol guy in particluar, he was a complete asshole about me not having a passport. Said he could lock me up if he wanted to. Total prick. The other 2 times I crossed back into the US I had no problems. But take your passport with you just in case.
You don't want to go to Disneyland anyway. That place has gone to hell recently. Deaths, closed and broken rides, no Captain Eo. Forget it.
Currently, Canadians and Americans are able to enter the United States with little more identification than a driver's licence or a birth certificate, though a passport has sometimes made it simpler to satisfy immigration officers at the border."
Unless ofcourse your one of them. See Here
I'm SO sure that people living in Detroit who go over to Casino Windsor.. then to return will find themselves barred from the country without a passport.
Not gonna happen.
We have secretly replaced these Slashdot mods' sense of humor with a rusty nail. Let's see if they notice!!
U.S. citizens get pretty pissed off when you try and fingerprint them as they enter another country. And more countries will follow suit with this. The principle of reciprocality is enforced by most nations on this planet....so get ready to be fingerprinted U.S. citizens...you treat guests in your country like criminals, and we'll treat you the same way if you ever come to ours...only we'll probably dick you around for 9 hours in the airport as a bit of payback.
What? You're not using the free WiFi at the Peace Arch?
What does this have to do with "Your Rights _Online_"? This story only applies to people who actually leave their keyboards once in awhile.
Just make sure your papers are in order before going out into the street.
CNN said this is being done to prevent terrorism. I have some questions. Did any of the 9/11 hijackers enter the US through Mexico or Canada? Does this appear to be another case of lawmakers and politicians trying to look "tough on terrorism" when what they are doing has little, or nothing, to do with terrorism?
This seems perfectly reasonable. If you leave one gaping hole in US border patrol, like the entire northern border, then you may as well not patrol the other borders. Yes it's possible to forge a passport, but with 50 differnet formats and much lower security, dirvers licenses are much easier to get and to forge. This will certainly cut down on tourism on both sides of the border, but without it the border patrol is really missing a big loophole.
And for those of you who say "What next?! Papers at the state border?" Give me a break this is nowhere near that extreme and you should know it.
THIS SPACE FOR RENT
The CIA is making sure it doesn't get caught with its pants down on the 200th anniversary of 1812. They're going to make sure that the Brits, the Canadians and the Indians don't just walk in and burn down the White House a second time. (Yes, I know it was actually in 1814, but the war officially started in 1812.)
Panurge has posted for the last time. Thanks for the positive moderations.
Is that Microsoft again, you can go anywhere without one of those passport things nowadays.
well, it was nice and convenient to travel down to washington with nothing but a driver's license. i live in vancouver and i dip across the border once a few times a month to get gas becuase it's just a little way out of my aimless daily commute. now i gotta carry a passport with me? that extra hassle isn't worth it, and a lot of border towns that rely on crossborder shopping are gonna be SOL.
i have a lot of american friends that travel to canada on a whim and with minimal ID. too bad they won't be let back into their own country now without a damn passport.
Because the assholes who planebombed NYC and DC all had passports, were known terrorists, and were connected on the record with the assholes who bombed the WTC in 1993. Mohammed Atta's passport was somehow found fluttering atop the burning steel slag of the WTC - even tougher than the 2 planes' 4 blackbox recorders, which have never been reported found. I feel safer already.
--
make install -not war
HOMER: By the way, I was being sarcastic.
MARGE: Well, duh.
Snickersnee3: Build your own 3-watt Luxeon Star headlamp from scratch
I have to wonder if one motivation for this change is that it might make it tougher for Americans to dodge future drafts.
---Technology will liberate us if it doesn't enslave us first.
I accept your terms.
has BillG become a president? now I need a .NET Passport to enter the country? ...oh wait a minute...'Passport' means a real government document, not a .NET Passport...phew...that capital 'P' really worried me for a minute!
It's so busy with tourists during your summer month.
You better watch out, there may be dogs about . .
Last time I came back across the border in a car from Canada (with a group of Americans), our group had packed our passports in our luggage, thinking that we would not need them, since they were not required when crossing TO Canada.
However, when we tried to just show the US immigration agent our driver's licenses, they made us pull over, get out our passports, and take them inside.
That was over a year ago, so either that particular agent was extra strict, or this has been the policy for a while.
Are you kidding, this is awesome!
If I'm reading this correctly, I can get on a flight from New York to Toronto. On the way there, I'll eat my passport. When I get there Canada will refuse me entry and send me back to New York. Then, and this is the great bit, they won't let me back in for not having a passport! This can only mean one thing - I'll live in "The Terminal"!
Then I can live my movie-dream of building myself a bed out of chairs in a conveniently quiet part of the airport that is constantly under construction, and I will live by collecting luggage carts and taking the money from the cart return machine in order to purchase food at Burger King.
And if what Hollywood teaches me is true, it is only a matter of time before a hot air hostess falls in love with me!
It's no big deal really, just sign in oneline.
Trust us.
"most Canadians will require a passport to cross into the United States"
Was anybody else confused by the wording of the summary. I got stuck on that line trying to figure out if that meant Canadians are required, or they are requiring. And what does "most" mean, some Canadians aren't required, or not all Canadians are implementing this requirement... Sheesh. I'm sure it all becomes clear in the article, but that line really jumbled me up.
by 2008 Americans who crossed freely into Canada will be unable to return to the United States without a passport
Has anyone asked Canada what they think about all the dickhead americans that didn't bring their passport with them being left in their country...american arrogance at it's best:
America: And if you don't bring your passport we won't let you back.
Canada: Hang aboot...don't we get a say in who get's to stay in our country and for how long?
America: Is that oil?
Canada: Oh shit
Thank you Mr. Bush for spreading all the "freedom" and peace. As we can see daily on TV the world just loves you...
Seriously. They've already shown they'll use whatever loopholes they can find in the Bill of Rights. Like right now, we've got several thousand people incarcerated on the territory of an unfriendly power, because it'd be illegal to incarcerate them anywhere else!
Just close the borders totally to all non US citizens. Anyone caught coming across for any reason, shoot them for trespassing.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
20 days after the fall of the towers, I had a business trip to Toronto. Drove over from Buffalo. Going over, Canadians only concerned if I was transporting cigs.
On the way back over, never had to show id, only asked where I was born, and if I was bringing booze back into the country.
Same thing about 3 months ago.
Its about time they start checking folks.
----- LoboSoft specializes in Digital Language Lab
Good. Fingerprinting and archiving dietary preferences of all those nasty foreigners will seriously reduce criminality! Well done! ...you guys have serious issues.
coming back across the bridge from Niagra Falls back in 2002 we spent a very unpleasant 2 hours chatting with INS dogfaces because my wife was dumb enough to answer "baghdad" when asked the cursory "where were you born". Her Massachusetts drivers license, they quite bluntly explained, did not state her nationality. She was nationalized before the INS guy was born...but that only makes finding computerized records of naturalization that much harder, the newer stuff is more likeley to be on line. We never have this problem coming back from Montreal.
"Age 16 and older: The passport fee is $55. The security surcharge is $12. The execution fee is $30. The total is $97." - travel.state.gov What a waste of money!
Oh nevermind, excuse me... Bin Laden is on the teevee again so it's time for our two minutes of Hate. I hear W Bush has a conference scheduled afterwards to talk about all the Peace his wars have brought, how the new anti-terrorism laws make America free, and how strong the country is are with a leader like himself.
After that, then I'll maybe have some time to listen to your lame 1984 analogies -- you paranoid nutcase.
501 Not Implemented
Who cares.
I already bring my passport with me whenever I travel. I show it leaving and entering the country if it is required or not. I find it makes travelling that much easier.
If you don't want to go to the US without a passport, then don't.
Goodbye Michael J. Fox, and your %^$^@#$@#$ family ties reruns. Your 'Alex P. Keaton' character is probably responsable for all the new assholes in the GOP...
Goodbye Celine, you crappy Quebec whore. Whitney does twice as much coke you could ever handle, and she doesn't say,'eh' all the time.
Goodbye Crash Test Dummies. Your songs needed more lyrics anyway.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
I better start practicing my new anthem.
I live near the Canadian border (I can see Canada from my cubicle if I stand up) and travel there frequently. I mean, we go there for lunch sometimes.
My serious girlfriend is Canadian, and we are strongly considering moving to Canada, mostly for work & family reasons. However, the political climate in the US is doing nothing to make me want to stay.
And save the flames -- all you "We're the BEST!!!1" patri-bots can go back to arguing over whether Jeff Gordon or Junior sucks more -- it makes about as much difference as your political opinion will once the Republicans are through removing your rights in the name of Freedumb.
I'm a citizen of a third country and Canadian law requires me to obtain a Canadian visa before entering Canada. My passport also needs to be stamped unless it has been stamped within the last 6 months. I remember the last time I was at the border and the guy just waved me by after asking me where I was going and I had to make him send me to the border office to get my passport stamped (I didn't want to risk the consequences of breaking the law). And I'm even the "wrong" skin color.
It's really not that much more of an inconvenience to carry a fricking passport with you if you are going to be LEAVING the country - in fact it's downright common sense to do so.
Whining about having to produce a passport is just plain silly.
So what will this mean to the massive border patrol roadblocks they set up on Interstate 89 or Interstate 91 up in Vermont ... over 100 miles from the Canadian border?
Gonna ask me for a passport to drive inside Vermont?
Obviously, the best way to keep trespassers at bay are dogs, or bees. Or the dogs with bees in their mouths and when they bark they shoot bees at you.
Reminds me of the old Apple ][ game of Castle Wolfenstein. "Aus Passe!" You need a pass to go from room to room when challenged by a soldier.
Also, a great way to raise government revenues. Last time I had a passport I forked over $65 for it. As there's a lot of people who travel between Detroit and Windsor, it'll either kill tourism, nightlife, etc. or people will cough up the dough and fund more government spending. yay.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Its because American partiers go to Canada to smoke good pot, and come back to the US to vomit cheap beer.
Or bearing Ohio plates. Ohio and Kentucky have a fair amount of emnity. Having Ohio plates in Kentucky or vice versa seems to make you eligible for getting pulled over. As someone who grew up in Kentucky near the Ohio border and now lives in Ohio, but visits family in Kentucky, I've had ample opportunity to learn how valid this truism is.
And for the sake of the racial profiling angle, I'm white enough to blind people without my clothes on, not that a lack of clothes is generally the case while driving...
This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.
I am Canadian citizen, and was born in a Muslim country. I daily commute to a US university. In post 9/11 , everyday I am fingerprinted and photographed and back ground check. This whole process takes around 3 hours everyday. By now i know the names of all the US border inspectors. I have come to know now that some Canadians-Americans are more white than others.
Tens of thousands make this underage pilgrimage every weekend and I imagine you will see a huge number of passport applications in the area if this happens. Thankfully I will no longer have to wait in the traffic backups on the bridge this will create.
> said "USA"
Many, many moons ago, my employer sent a bunch of us through Port Huron. Of the 8(!) of wedged into the mini-van, I was the only one to respond "United States." The others replied "America." Funny how I was the one to get the cordail "Welcome to Canada, eh."
I'm up in Bellingham, a mere 20 miles from the border. People are really worried about this change, as we get thousands of tourists and business visitors on a daily basis. In addition to requiring passports, other articles have indicated the border guard intends to require more paperwork to be filled out.
The border crossing has no way to process the number of people who cross daily. There is literally no where for people to park while they're filling out forms, and there is not enough staff or lanes to smoothly handle the change. As a local put it, the first day there will be cars parked for 10 miles. Within a week, they will be gone...because no one will be coming to the US.
None of these changes would have stopped the 9/11 terrorists. I am beginning to wonder if the real reason behind the Patriot Act and the draconian changes to our border checkpoints is to create a Fortress America, that has no contact with the outside world. Won't that be a pleasant joy to live in.
I need a passport just to log in to my hotmail account
If it becomes more common to require passports, then more people will routinely get passports, and the passport office will be more overwhelmed with work, and more people who should not be given passports will get them. If passports are routinely checked, instead of only suspcious situations, then border agents will be overwhelmed with work, and more people who should never be allowed to cross the border, will do so.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
The last time I took an international flight and landed for a stop in VANCOUVER, I crossed through UNITED STATES OF AMERICA IMMIGRATION! The last time I checked, Vancouver was on the CANADIAN SIDE of the border! So unless the Canadians decided to change their seal to an American Eagle and had George W. Bush as their President on the wall, I was definitely crossing U.S. borders in VANCOUVER which is a CANADIAN CITY!
I find that rather dumb, because we already treat any entry in to the U.S. OR Canada as one border and not two, why bother wasting tax dollars on the border in between when it should have been done already on the Canadian side since we are doing that already? Because apparently, jurisdiction between Canada and the U.S. didn't matter.
a friend and i made a trip over to st. catharines for a week. as we passed into canada we were asked the standard who are you, where are you going, for how long. upon crossing back into the US the guy at the border kept on badgering me about if i had any crystal meth in my car. (i assume because i was from iowa, and we have a wee issue with it here) It was rediculous, they were complete and total asses to us, serched our entire car looked through our crap. after roughly an hour they got depressed about not finding anything, and let us go.
Ummm, isn't this why we have passports?
The whole idea of a passport is to prevent foreigners from coming into the US without authorization. You need one when you go to any other country except Canada.
Now that exception is gone. There's no "privacy violation" here - at least not one that hasn't existed for many years.
Somehow, though, Slashdot likes to blow stories like this out of proportion.
I want a chip-inplant. I want biometrics in my passport. I want to geve a drop of blood to identify myself when I board a plane. I want the my government to tap my phone and take away all my civil liberties.
and I want it NOW, not in 1984.
Privacy is terrorism.
This is reflecting the new political reality that the current Administration and the ruling party in congress considers left-leaning first world nations as ideological enemies to be isolated and opposed on the global stage. It's a clear sign that the US considers open access to Canada and Canadian culture as being counterproductive to their ideals in reshaping America to the Dickensian nightmare of theocracy and plutocracy.
This isn't a security issue. This is an issue of punishing America's closest allies for following a different political destiny. It's to protect Michiganders and New Hampshirites from being exposed to affordable healthcare, gay rights and decrinminalized marijuana.
Don't think it's true? Look at the ruthless, relentless and sometimes threatening and bellicose criticism of Europe by the right-wing blogosphere, professional pundits, and administration officials like Rumsfeldt. Canada is culturally closer to Europe at this point than the US... and the US will be punishing them for that at every opportunity.
It's a new Berlin wall, to discourage cultural contamination. I can think of nothing more heartbreaking.
SoupIsGood Food
It is amazing that people do not know that communist regimes executed 100,000,000 people in the last 100 years.
/. readers would prefer being in North Korea where eving being suspected of making an anti-government statement puts you, your entire family, your parents and grandparents into a slave labor camp.
It is also amazing that people do not know the basic difference between democratic and communist.
I guess that
See "Death, terror in N. Korea gulag" from http://msnbc.msn.com/id/3071466/
I live in Detroit and when I was younger (read: 19 & 20 years old) I used to cross the border to hit up the bars in Windsor. Before 9/11, all I needed was my license and a copy of my birth certificate. After 9/11, its nearly impossible to get across without a Passport. Your license and copy of your birth certificate will not get you across anymore. Furthermore, your license and your real birth certificate does work but the border guards will harass you. So it looks like the US is adopting the policy of the Detroit border for the rest of its crossings.
[insert lame joke here]
We let Canadians in the US?
We should respect the right of anybody and any commodity to come and go to the USA as they please unless they are an obvious immenent threat.
All those people that threatened to move to Canada last November... I don't *want* them to come back!
Last summer we crossed in to Canada from the U.S. and back again at the Grand Portage MN crossing. Getting into Canada and back into the U.S. was a "piece of cake." The Canadian authority was a young man - maybe 21 or 22 if he was looking young for his age. He simply asked a series of questions (a couple of which were unexpected and I assume were part of the security screening process) and welcomed us to Canada and let us go.
What was interesting about that crossing was what any geek is likely to notice. As you approach the station there are cameras and lights - I'm sure that they use some recognition software and run you license plate before you ever even get close to the guard shack. Then as you pick your lane there are these posts that have a couple of convenient slots that I'm sure are also hiding cameras. The driver and the undersides of the vehicle are photographed as you slowly approach the shack.
On the return trip, the US Customs agent steps out of the shack, writes down your license plate and requests ID from you. He talks to you briefly asking a few simple questions. Didn't take more than a few seconds. But it was all manual! Clearly, at this crossing at least, the Canadians have out-spent us and out-classed us security-wise.
You can't see the headlights bearing down on you eh?
:
Look at this
The juicy bit
"McCain envisions erecting physical checkpoints, dubbed "screening points," near subways, airports, bus stations, train stations, federal buildings, telephone companies, Internet hubs and any other "critical infrastructure" facility deemed vulnerable to terrorist attacks. Secretary Tom Ridge would appear to be authorized to issue new federal IDs--with biometric identifiers--that Americans could be required to show at checkpoints. "
Service guarantees Citizenship! Questions Guarantee GITMO.... Amerika Uber Alles!
According to President Bush, Arizona DOES have a border with Canada.
That's not what he said. Rather, it's what you got out of reading a transcript of a speech he gave. Arizona is most definitely affected by our porous national borders and by any policies involved in managing those borders.
I already use my passport as ID when traveling within my own country. Its easier to keep up with and produce compared to digging my wallet out and presenting my DL.
starting in 2007, most Canadians will require a passport to cross into the United States and by 2008 Americans who crossed freely into Canada will be unable to return to the United States without a passport.
So during 2007, when any given person is trying to cross from Canada into the USA, how will they decide who needs to show their passport and who doesn't? You can't tell whether somebody is from Canada or the USA just by looking at them. What are they gonna do - check your passport to decide whether or not they need to check your passport?
If passports become mandatory to re-enter the country, as a citizen you should not have to pay for them. Unlike a drivers license or other forms of I.D. entering the country isn't optional. There should be no state affixed burden to the act of going home.
Just because you usually get waved through, doesn't mean there aren't rules. They don't have time to check everybody's ID, but you're supposed to have it, and there always a chance you'll get caught in a spot check if you don't.
Notice how the parent was modded flamebait, while the grandparent was modded insightful. Now that's /. objectivity at work.
Your ability to blind people with nakedness has nothing to do with your whiteness.
They got to the US government. Do I have to sign up for hotmail too?
The world is made by those who show up for the job.
Because we can't have Alan Thicke coming over here whenever he wants!
There are 10 kinds of people in the world: Those who understand binary and those who don't
||
Does our government own itself and us?
*************
Does anybody else remember when Russia/USSR was called "The bigest jail on the planet"?
The rest of the world is getting the same treatment, to enter, let us say, the US for example. So how does it feel ? Last 23rd november there was a change in rule for EU country pass. Not machine-readable passport are required to get a Visa. Mind you those are VALID passport, only they do not have a codebar (for example some EU countires pass). I came in Texas 3 days after the new rule was passed. Naturally I had asked what the rule was 1 week before at the embassy and nobdoy TOLD ME THEY WERE CHANGING THE FREAKING RULE. Result : at the airport I got stuck there for 4+ freaking hours while they were asking me question the same over and over and over. And you are NOT ALLOWED to call your friends to tell 'em you are late. Actually you are not even allowed to use a cell phone at all. And that only because they cannot automatically read the pass and a guy has to enter the data with a keyboard. Haha. I have only 1 wish, that all those "nice" custom agent travel somewhere and get the same "nice" treatment. Just out of spite I also wish EU would introduce fingerprinting and mug shot for all US traveler incoming. I am freaking tired of the hassly in the US each time I have to go there, and it doesn't even increase security a bit, especially taking out my freaking shoe and my belt. Frankly it is a shame I am forced to do buissness there, I would rather make buissness in a more "open" country like UK. But the client wish to go to the US. A Pity the country is nice but getting in and out is becoming as bad as getting in as in East german republic 20 years ago... And I am talking out of experience here.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
As a Canadian I have no interest whatsoever in visiting the US. There is simply nothing there of any interest to me. I'd rather spend my time and money travelling within Canada and meeting my friends and neighbors anyway.
I'd even rather visit any other country than the US mostly because we already see so much of the US in the commercial media.
In fact I'd urge any Canadian reading this to boycott the US for tourist and leisure travel and to spend those tourist dollars seeing our own great country. Even better to travel to the four corners of the globe taking our Canadian flag with us to not only meet and learn about people from other cultures but to let them get to know Canadians better so they understand that, while Canada shares a border and a continent with the US that we are distinctly different than Americans. So often I see Canada and the US lumped together in the contemporary media as simply "North America" and I feel frustrated and embarassed to no end about this.
My brother (a USian) was hassled 4 or 5 years ago by Canadian Immigration after a flight from California for having only a Calif drivers license and not having a passport. He told them that if they wouldn't let him in, he wouldn't be able to buy the $2 million worth of high tech test equipment from the Canadian firm that he was on his way to visit. They backed down fast.
These new requirements won't last. Canada and the US are each others biggest trading partners and there is too much at stake to let passports get in the way. There are over 100 million border crossings each year between the US and Canada. 15 million vehicles cross every year between Windsor and Detroit. Every time the President has asked Congress to allocate funds or require more security between the US and Canada, Congress has ignored him due to the large number of Congressmen whose districts would be hurt by such efforts (think WI, MN, MI, OH, PA, NY on trade or drive I-75 and check out all the cars from Ontario headed to FL - thats a lot of votes from both parties).
FreeSpeech.org
Sounds like a good security system to implement on my Linux box.
Prompt: Do you belong here?
Hax0r: Yes
root@mybox>
Now if we could only implement the evil bit in people we wouldn't need all of this silly security.
That's an interesting knee-jerk reaction that is completely disconnected from reality. The US resembles the old USSR only in that there are two letters in common.
Now, somehow somebody thought that you were insightful instead of overreacting - I guess that's their opinion, but mine is that you don't know what you're talking about. Talk to somebody who made it out of the Soviet Union, before the breakup, to the west if you need some insight into the differences between communism and a democratic republic. As much as you'd like to think that there is some huge government crackdown on civil liberties in the US, it has about the same relationship to the USSR as a bazooka to a water pistol.
As a third teir member of the 175th Holy Church of Tour, I declare that we are at war with you as well.
We shall smite the infidels that defile the name of Holy Tour. Enter into our houses and you will be smitten by Tour and you will never wish to leave.
Long Live Tour!
"When God kisses Satan and the Incarnations applaud." "Death is dead. Long live Death!"
...and by 2008 Americans who crossed freely into Canada will be unable to return to the United States without a passport
This is CBC fear mongering, this is ridiculous. So long as you can prove citizenship (have ID, birth certificate, voter registration card, etc), they can't deny you entry into your own country.
As for Canadians, even though it wasnt always required, it's always been wise to take a passport to the US, and have it stamped at the border.
For instance: if you get in a fender bender in the states, and can't prove to your insurance co when you arrived there, and when you left, you may find that they simply walk away from you, because you can't prove that you (the insured driver) were in the states when the accident occurred.
Or, if you run afoul of the law, you can prove to some a-hole cop that, indeed, you haven't been in the country more than a month (which requires something more than the defacto "vacation" visa waiver).
US Immigration law assumes your guilty until you prove yourself innocent. I'm a Canadian living in the US with a Green Card, and went through all their bullshit marraige fraud act stuff (in the US, every marraige to a non-US citizen is fraudulent until you prove otherwise).
I don't need no instructions to know how to rock!!!!
Just don't cross the border as a US citezen from Texas with a Canadian. The border agents can possibly understand why people from that far apart would be friends, and will just about tear apart the car (or at least move mats, inspect hoses in the engine compartment, etc.). I was using a passport, and I think that made it worse.
I went to Canada about 5 months ago, they checked IDs, on the way over and the way back.
If what you are reading sounds funny, or sarcastic, lame, or stupid
it is because it is supposed to be. just laugh
It's still the longest undefended border in the world last I checked, and it's not like we put a big ol' fence up to keep them out or something.
I guess for me I'm thinking 'about time' vs. 'oh my god I'm violated'. I've had the honor of going to Canada twice now and I took my passport with me both times. I would take my passport anytime I leave the country, and Canada is one of those times.
I think of it being the opposite? Not that Canada is any harder/easier to forge papers in but what if Ahab the Arab is in Canada and actually goes through a border checkpoint instead of walking across a frozen river in the winter. Making them have to forge a few more papers shouldn't be that hard.
They've lost some 'favored nation' type status because of our history together, big deal. We make every other country use a passport to get in and that's not stopped the tourists, hell even getting them killed in florida doesn't stop em.
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
"MultiPass!"
- Just my $0.02, take with a grain of salt, your mileage may vary.
To think, we Americans used to scoff at the idea of having a passport required to travel internally, like the Soviet Union used to require its citizens to have. (And which Russia still has).
Now, it's being justified by the building of the interstate highway system. In the US.
Internal passports are generally considered a mark of a tyranny.
Kto kogo, tovarish w9ofa?
No I don't think you should require a passport to go anywhere. Can you tell me why we SHOULD be required to do so?
The 9/11 terrorists had valid passports, so I'd say they don't work for fighting terrorism.
What is wrong with being able to freely travel without government permission?
It is just another pointless piece of red tape to give government officials something to do.
Service guarantees Citizenship! Questions Guarantee GITMO.... Amerika Uber Alles!
How fitting. It seems that our passport office is lax with security. How will this affect the US policy?
Full article: Auditor says Canada's security systems still too weak
In the UK (at least a few years ago when I was a kid), parents could get their children recorded in their passport, so the children didn't need their own unless they were travelling on their own. I think this only worked for some countries, but I'm reasonably sure I crossed the iron curtain without having my own passport, so I'm not sure where it didn't work for. Do the same rules apply in the US/Canada? (ISTR the UK was planning to abolish this scheme, presumably to cut down on underage terrorism, but I think they noticed that the passport office wouldn't be able to cope with the extra work, so gave up)
In soviet russia stale jokes recycle you!
It was especially telling when i spent time in former east germany, and especially east berlin.
After seeing first hand the memorial to the berlin wall, and the destruction all across east germany (like how none of it was rebuilt during the pre-unification years), i vowed that the next time i heard some fucking _IDIOT_ saying something positive about communisim/socialism, or trying to compare whats happening in the US to what transpired in eastern europe and the soviet union, id be sure and make my token attempt to set them straight.
You sir, are seriously lacking perspective.
My wife and i flew from the US to the EU and back and no cavities were searched. We brought back food items and the customs people were very pleasant and allowed our stuff with no problems. The metal detectors detected metal on my body i didn't realize existed (i.e. in my shoes).
Having crossed the border between canada and the US several times via car, i've always been alarmed at how lax the security was - even though the trunk of my car was searched on a few occasions (i tend to seem suspicious, i guess), i never felt it was unreasonable for the border patrol to try and ascertain if i had a trunk full of bodies or guns or something.
I am all for extremely strong border protections. All are welcome in the US, so long as they play by the rules, which are set and enforced by the sole discretion of the US. I wish we were putting our troops on the mexican border instead of some of the other places they're currently deployed, but thats political suicide (behaving reasonably often is)
Controlling who enters and exits the US is a good idea. You can be sure that what the US is doing - trying to do a marginal job at asking "so, who are you?" is a damn sight less invasive than shooting women in the back, which is how things were handled in some of the regimes you're comparing the US to.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
Yeh, they need to start checking so they can catch all the criminals like yourself.
It's a new Berlin wall, to discourage cultural contamination.
Umm...we've already been contaminated by Canda - we have hockey. Besides, it's not a wall - it's a passport!
Everybody else already has to provide passports. And, let's see, by requiring Americans to have passports to come in, are we protecting ourselves from contamination by...ourselves?
You didn't think this through very well.
It also helps to be the right skin colour and accent, or at least not the "wrong" ones.
I get waved through all the time too. My cousin, on the other hand, has gotten his car ripped apart.
Exactly! Despite all the hand-wringing here, that's what this change is actually all about.
The formal rules for who can come and go haven't changed, what has changed is just the level of proof that a person has to supply in order to come into the country. Previously if a white, accent-free American went to Canada and upon returning said "I'm a citizen", he or she would be pretty much just let in. But if an arab-looking American with an accent went to Canada and upon returning said "I'm a U.S. citizen", do you think he or she would just waltz in? I doubt it. But do you think America really should let any person who says "I'm a U.S. citizen" waltz into the country with little or no proof?
This change "levels the field" by setting common, enforceable criteria for entering the country. If you have a valid U.S. passport or a foreign passport with an appropriate visa, you can come in, regardless of race, accent, or appearance. If you don't, well... I guess you'll be spending the afternoon at the U.S. consulate while they check you out more thoroughly.
P.S. Driver's licenses and birth certificates are essentially "no proof" as the former does not actually indicate citizenship or residency, the latter doesn't have a photo, neither has a standard format, and both are easy to fake.
"To be absolutely certain about something, one must know everything or nothing about it." -- Olin Miller
because it basically was. The security has eased up again in my experience. Where am I going and how long will I stay usually is the most questioning I get... but then again, I'm of European descent and don't look anything like a terrorist. Because you know, you can spot a terrorist by the colour of their skin. (joking, obviously)
Meh.
This seems perfectly reasonable. If you leave one gaping hole in US border patrol, like the entire northern border, then you may as well not patrol the other borders.
You do realize that the number of illegal border crossings on the southern border are 20 times larger than any on the northern border, don't you?
Want to stop illegal crossings? Make the employers go to jail.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
My mother has had a US driver license for over 30 years. She was not, however, a US citizen for most of this time, she was a resident alien. Driver licenses are just that: licenses to operate a vehicle. They do not indicate citizenship, or even residency status.
The US lacks a citizen ID card like many nations have, so the only real document that works is a passport.
If you leave California for Arizona, you can't enter AZ without your passport? Or return?
Look up "Soviet Union" and "Internal Passport" on Google.
I've done some serious research on what it would take to become a Canadian citizen, mostly because it's America with 40% less fascism. Anything that facilitates travel between the two countries represents a risk that the two countries will begin to become more and more alike, with the American culture eventually drowning out the last vestiges of the Canadian one.
This passport thing seems like a step in the right direction. Don't intermix bad American crap with good Canadian freedom.
It's rare that you're presented with a knob whose only two positions are Make History and Flee Your Glorious Destiny.
I was in Seattle and picked up a girlfriend of mine for a trip to Vancouver, BC to visit some people. She's from Denmark and only had her Danish passport. I'm American and had my US Passport & California drivers license with me.
She got into Canada with no problems. Me, on the other hand.. they gave me the third degree! They asked names & phone numbers & addresses of the people that I'd be staying with, and also made me prove that I had $100/day for expenses available to me. I have no idea where they got the $100/day figure, but they were adamant about it.
She spent about 2 minutes at Customs, where I was held up for almost an hour. All we were going to do was visit some school friends at a restaurant in BC. I sure as hell didn't expect the Canadian Inquisition....
So when's the memorial service? for the land of the free.
There's a lot of small towns near the border, on both sides with businesses have become dependant on the very easy and quick ability for people to pass back and forth across the border without the slightest hassle. I wonder if this change will dampen the economies of those small towns. Using a passport is only a small hassle, but it's a small hassle where previously there were none.
When I was a small child my family went on a car trip through the canadian rockies. The border guard was one guy in a booth not much larger than a photomat. There wasn't even a barrier gate across the road that lifted out of the way or anything like that, just a stop sign. This was the full extent of the border crossing questions:
guard (seeing family station-wagon): Hello folks, May I ask your purpose in entering Canada?
my Dad: sightseeing camping. (obvious from the car full of supplies).
guard: Are you planning on staying long?
my Dad: just two weeks.
guard: Do you have any guns or fruit? (What an odd combination of of questions)
my Dad - a bag of apples we just bought for lunch later.
guard: If you just bought them it should be okay. We're worried about the spread of fruit flies from further south but if you just bought them in washington they'll be fine.
guard: yup! Welcome to Canada. Have a wonderful trip.
my Dad - Don't you need to see some ID?
guard: I suppose if it will make you feel better.
The re-entry into the US was even more lax - The guard saw the license plates on the car were from the US, and asked, "Let's see - plates from Wisconsin - car packed for a camping trip - Coming back from a vacation I see? Okay - Welcome back, go on through..."
Sigh. Those were friendlier times.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Drivers license is not sufficient to enter the 'States. ID must have place of birth, therefor birth certificate or passport, and they prefer passport. That nugget would have saved me a day on the bus... the man don't bend much, man.
If you've known a Doctor for 2 years, or even visit a Dentist semi-occasionally, you have someone who can be the guarantor of your passport.
I work in Software. I happen to know several Accountants, a couple of lawyers, and two Notary Publics.
There are old licenses as well, many of which are trivial to forge. The new Arizona licenses are pretty good, you'd need some serious equipment ot forge them. However until he moved, my father had an old one that was basically just a printed peice of paper with his info and the state seal on it, and a picture of him laminated together.
Another problem is driver licenses aren't citizenship documents, they are just a license to operate a motor vehicle on public roads. Resident aliens, even illegal aliens, have them as well. A passport, if legitimate, is proof of citizenship.
Watch out boys and girls, the next time you pass out drunk on the dorm couch...
A few hours and a vomit covered tire-iron later, you might find yourself waking up on the wrong side of the line!
The tighter the grip using passports the greater the likeihood they'll get the people to eventually accept a National Identity Card so everywhere you go even inside the US can be tracked.
It just shows another clear example of the governments agenda for the future and its all about tracking obviously.
Another invasive thing now they want to be able to use the black boxes in people's car for insurance data purposes in legal cases. Most people aren't even aware that new cars have these devices built in and are recording everything.
Business Voyeur
I take my passport with me anytime I go outside the US now, so why should it be any different with Canada?
I know quite a few energetic immigrants who were just passing as tired. And a few posing as huddled who weren't confused or crowded one little bit.
It took 'em long enough to tighten the borders. I seriously wish they would put photocells at the mexican border so that if anyone crosses, he/she would get shocked. As for Canada, I've had more problems with Canadian authorities who called me "suspicious" asked me all these questions and then let me go (I've never been detained by anyone before, and I have a clean record) than with US authorities. As for not letting people cross back into the US w/o a passport - that's outrageous.
-Palal
If we really cared . . . there wouldn't have been a whole bunch of "Viva Bush" billboards all along the New Mexica and Arizona border crossing regions. Ever really wonder why the number of illegals entering our country has increased since Bush has been in office?
The International Civillian Aviation Authority. They recommend that all children have a valid passport when travelling by air as a step to help combat child trafficing. (According to the Canadian Passport website)
So now I'll need to get a passport - which costs $87, and must be renewed every 5 years - just to cross the border??!
Uhm.. no thanks. I think I'll just stay at home.
I am the maverick of Slashdot
I however find it hard to fault the US for requiring documents that everyone else requires for entrance into their nations.
If requiring a passport for entrance in the US is inconvenient because its hard for some people to get passports from their current governments, is it fair to lay all of the blame on the US?
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
It's no wonder the US government will be tightening security at the expense of their citizen's confort.
It's been said that if you allow the government to do something (in this case thighten security, but it can be taxes, etc.) on others, sooner or later, it will be applied to you.
Let's see if US citizens like being treated like criminals as other visitors are ("Officer, I forgot my passport. Isn't my ID enough?" - "No, stay in detention. You will be interrogated shortly").
Me, I never visited the US, but an United Arways flight gave me a taste of how it can be like (probing my shoes?? and people can go aboard with 10 kg of electronics that can be disassembled into anything you want - that's just false security).
Not to mention the last time my father went there... in spite of being a prominent member of an international law association on his way to a congress he was harassed by the inmigration officers just from coming from a "Third World" country (and Uruguay is a lot better educated than the US, and better in many regards, we're just poorer).
It made little difference to them that my father had gone there lots of times before, and could have stayed if he wanted to...
There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
I got robbed, my car broke down 4 times, and my dryer died. Please send money.
Well, I might had you:
a) Not used Frontpage to make that pitiful web page,
b) Not inserted a midi file in it,
c) Thought to entertain me a bit with your tale of woe.
I get a better sob story from bums on the street...
It also depends on your license plate #. If you cross often, and always in the same manner, then chances are they'll just waive you through (and I'm not talking about Nexus here).
C - Eh? - N - Eh? - D - Eh?
Got it.
"Democracy." It's just a slogan.
Driver's licenses and birth certificates are essentially "no proof" as the former does not actually indicate citizenship or residency, the latter doesn't have a photo, neither has a standard format, and both are easy to fake.
Then I guess there's no proof that over 70% of Americans are citizens then. Seriously, those documents are what the passport is issued based on.
In the northern reaches of Maine, you barely even need to stop your car to get to and from Canada. Only once have I been asked for id, and that was because it was 3am and I had a girl in the passenger seat.
Entry conversation is basically:
"Are you a citizen of the US?/Where are you from?"
"Where'd you go and for how long?"
"Move along."
Assuming it's authentic - and BCs are retarded trivial to fake - it proves that someone was born in the US. Even ignoring counterfeiting, how do you prove that you're that person? With your driver's license? OK, maybe, since license+BC gets you a passport. But only if your license has the biometric stuff they want, in the format they can read. Since it won't, I can see them wanting a passport.
Reminds me of when I went to the DMV. They needed a BC or passport to get a license in the state I just moved to. I offered my old license and social security card, but no. I needed a BC. I didn't bother to point out that since I can use my social and drivers license to GET a BC, that they might as well just let me use what I had with me. But hey, that's the DMV for ya.
I not going back anytime soon, unless there's a death in the family. Even then I might request that they move the funeral down here. I might miss your billiard table smooth roads an' all, but the weather's better here. So I'll stay away. Just do me a favor. Stay the hell away from me, too. Damn, I wish the world had the balls to turn their back on you bastards.
Um, OK. Just wondering, what part of the US is it you hate so much that's actually better in Mexico (other than the weather)? If it's individual rights, you haven't run into the cops down there. Sounds like redundant whiny US-bashing.
We will eventually reach a point where there are so many restrictions on entering, so many hassles to enter (fingerprints, visa process, harassment by border officials), and where foreigners have enough fear of being detained for whatever reason (cf. Dmitry Sklyarov, Guantanamo Bay detainees, etc) that people might lose interest in coming to the US. Oh wait, that won't happen because they will still want to come here to shop because the dollar will have collapsed right around that time, and also you'll be able to buy used SUVs for $100,000 (500 Euros).
.... drops through the floor.
The second the US starts increasing the barriers to entry, Canadians will start looking at alternative vacations spots as being more attractive.
From TFA:
WASHINGTON - In response to a new rule requiring most Canadians to carry passports for entry into the U.S., Public Security Minister Anne McLellan said Americans may also have to carry the document to enter the country.
"Our system has really always worked on the basis of reciprocity," McLellan said outside the House of Commons.
"And therefore we will review our requirements for American citizens and we're going to do that in collaboration with the United States.
"There's no point in either of us going off in a direction without working together to determine how best we can facilitate the flow - a free flow - and movement of low-risk individuals."
It is entrely possible that when you pulled up to the booth, a camera got your plates, and pulled up the drivers license pictures of everyone who lives at the same address as where the car is registered.
I personally don't like this idea. Living in the Detroit area, I've gone over to the Windsor side countless times! This is going to be a major inconvenience for people on both sides of the border. Cross border shopping and entertainment are very common things! People just go on the spur of the moment. Like there's a lot of great bars in Windsor. I especially enjoyed those when I was 19! But now I see a lot of cross border activities going away. Because there's this new "tax" on border crossings. Passports aren't cheap people! I don't have one, because I can't see paying that much for one. Since the only place I go is Canada. A lot of people aren't going to bother getting one... Because not only is it expensive, it's also a pain in the ass to get one. If they do go through with this, I think they should come out with a $20 "citizenship card" or something that you can get at your local security of state. Otherwise it's just going to be a major pain in the ass for everyone and it's going to hurt the economy on both sides of the border. This has to be the most idiotic thing I've ever heard of. I've always felt that we should have an open border with Canada. Why can't the US - Canada border be like the EU? I mean c'mon, Canada is not a third world country! I don't see what the problem is. But anyways... I'll be getting my passport soon, since I do cross the border quite often. I have a lot of friends on the Canadian side.
I happen to agree that the US can take whatever actions it feels proper to protect its borders, although I am troubled that long-term this might eventually entail an effort to keep US citizens from easily leaving and going INTO Canada.
In the states it's get's over 100 degrees in the summer.
Does yout blood boil? Is it hotter than hades?
How many rods to the hogshead?
If you are unable to stay in peace, because you killed, crashed and burned to get your oil DO NOT even think in to come mexico. Dont you get it? Canadians are wellcomed in every where. You yankees DO NOT.
I do a lot of travel as do many of my friends. I don't know anyone who would even think of travelling to or from the USA without their Canadian passport after September 11th. 10 years ago maybe, but not today.
Mexicans are not happy with the tougher anti-migrating actions the US is taking against them so they ratted out the canadians and their ilegal immigration schemes, we are not less thann the canadians, if they can "move" to the US without proper visas why we can't. More news will come.
A friend swears his brother actually saw this happen:
Friend's brother flew from Hong Kong to Sydney. Flight was delayed on the ground in HK, somewhat significantly, so everyone was kind of late. The immigration person checking passports was, in the spirit of all good bureaucrats with functionally unlimited power within their sphere of influence, taking their time and making sure to ask the predominantly caucasian, Commonwealth-origin visitors lots of annoying questions.
The man in front of my friend's brother was a British businessman (suit, etc) who was kind of put out by the slowness and the delays previously experienced. Once he got to the head of the queue, the immigration official apparently sensed this and began asking a series of questions of dubious value, including asking if the man had ever been incarcerated.
Finally at his breaking point, the man said in a fairly haughty tone, "Why? Is that still a prerequisite for entry to Australia?"
At that point the Briton was refused entry and was told he had to go back to Hong Kong.
Like I said, I have no idea if this is true (did you ever need a passport to go from Britain, to HK, to Australia?) or not, but it's kind of a funny story.
Terrorist Plan #27:
Yeah, right.
you'll find VW's new phaeton factory, which is a work of art in and of itself. They've also made good progress on restoring the bombed out buildings/churches in the altstadt.
..
I have pictures of Caterpillar machines moving dirt infront of a gorgeous church in the heart of Leipzig. Mercedes-Benz owns Caterpillar; it's an interesting justaxposition (sp?) to see american built and servied construction equipment owned by a west german company rebuilding ruins of east german buildings destroyed by american weapons, all being financed by a unified european currency.
The staggering thing to me was how basically anything pretty in germany has been bombed and rebuilt twice. We saw the worlds largest mechanical pipe organ, one that JS Bach personally played and evaluated for the city of Lubeck... and a few 1000 year old churches, and the Koln Dom is too staggering for words or pictures to describe.
The amazing beauty and uniqueness of these places makes it even more shameful that they weren't even touched during the soviet years.. and that the german politicians and people could fathom engaging in a second world war after the damage of the first...
For all of the complaining europeans do about the US government and the US military.. its hard to stay quiet and not remind them that the US bailed europe out of two world wars of its own making.. and that both times we were attacked inspite of our more or less isolationist policies..... and when you see what war ravaged europe still looks like after 60 years.. i find it hard to argue with taking prevenative and pre-emptive measures to keep conflicts away from US soil as much as possible...
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
Frankly, I've always found it easier to enter the US without using my US passport then with.
... oh well .. no more going back the us for breakfast then.
Bummer
Code softly but carry a big magnet.
This move is good for the rest of the world. I the Idiots that run the USA nowadays, then all that potential will seek somewhere else to go. And a lot of high potentials will choose not to live in that big banana republic.
So just like any raid from the BSA is stimulating Linux adoption, this stupidity will benefit the rest of the world.
Soooo... Thanks BushyBoy!
This space is intentionally staring blankly at you
american minorities have nothing to do in Canada.
Capt. Vasili Borodin: I will live in Montana. And I will marry a round American woman and raise rabbits, and she will cook them for me. And I will have a pickup truck... maybe even a "recreational vehicle." And drive from state to state. Do they let you do that?
Captain Ramius: I suppose.
Capt. Vasili Borodin: No papers?
Captain Ramius: No papers, state to state.
Was this scene supposed to be humourous? Ridiculing how restrictive the rules of the Soviet Union were?
Somebody else should comment, I just felt the quote was appropriate.
Countries are too hard to protect. Why not just wall off the cities? Passport control could be at every exit of the DC Beltway. Manhattan is an island - shouldn't be too hard to protect it.
It is one reason they don't stamp USA passports, because of all the fucked up laws. So you can make it there from Mexico or another country, and visit Cuba, and come back and nobody will ever know.
Rosco: "If brains were gunpowder, Enos couldn't blow his nose."
Remember, we can't let the terrorists win! We must go on with our "free" lives as if nothing happened on 9/11. The only problem seems to be that the government didn't heed their own advice... If I had mod points, I'd mod you up.
The wheel is turning, but the hamster is dead.
I live very near the Canadian border in western New York state, and cross several times per week. Quite often, the customs inspection when returning back to the USA is a joke.
"Anything to declare?"
"No."
*Customs officer waves hand to proceed.*
So much for an ID check or vehicle check. How do they even know I'm a US citizen? How do they know I don't have a terrorist in my trunk? What a joke.
Visiting the People's Democratic Republic of New York is, in fact, leaving the USA. As such, passports make more sense.
With less sarcasm, the situation really is heading towards quite-out-of-hand.
Your paperz! Show me ze paperz! (say it with a German accent. You'll get it.)
What a fucking dumbass!
This is not "your rights online"
It's "your rights in real fucking life"
This is not news for nerds, it should not be on fucking slashdot.
Could the most of you get any fucking stupider? It's a bloody passport. Welcome to what most of the rest of the world does. It's not like they're going to fucking strip search you or something.
"Hi!"
"Hi. Citizenship?"
"US *show passport*"
"Why are you coming here, for how long, and are you carrying anything?"
"Visit friends, just a few hours, no."
"Have a nice stay!"
Good fucking god, the only difference is you have to show them a 2 in by 4 in by 3 mm booklet. HEAVEN FORBID. God sakes people, you act like they just told you you could never leave the county without being strip searches and have your dick photographed or something.
Evaluate your fucking priorities. I'm not for the Patroit Act or hell, even Bush, but I'm not as stupid as to think having to show ID is that awful. Perhaps if you morons left your house you'd see that compared to almost any other border, the Canadian border and entering and exiting that country is 5000x times easier then traveling to most other places. I mean, hell, ofen times you already have to show a driver's licesne anyways. OH NO, ID! EVIL!
Shut out from the US and stuck in Canada? I fail to see the downside here. I mean between the high quality beer and weed plus "Hockey Night in Canada" and "The Nature of Things" I'm thinking about retiring there. =)
"I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity but they've always worked for me" - HST
I show them my DL and BC, they ask me a couple of questions and I'm on my way. How much easier will a passport make it? This is crazy. If you can't trust canada, who the hell can you trust!?
I think if you try to get a job in Canada, and they find out you are not Canadian, that you will be deported back to your country of orgin. Someone correct me if I am wrong.
As long as they have proper documentation and identification.
If only it was just that. As a male born in Iran (long-time Canadian citizen), I have (had) a hard time going into USA after 9/11, i.e. the first question they ask me every time is: "where were you born?" and half the time stop me at the border regardless of my proper documentation. I'm not the only one with this problem, and this is not a troll just real facts.
I've given up going there now, and I know many non-whites (Middle-Eastern, East-Asians, etc) who have also stopped trying to visit USA because of the not-so-veiled racism.
my Irish one expires 2011. Cost about C$110 though.
Consistent rules can be good - but there could also be a false sense of security associated with such actions. This is the arguement against the various airline lists that allow certain people/profiles to go through while concentrating resources on people on the "bad" list.
They would catch more would-be offenders by using random checks on everybody rather than detaining the people with no passports.
That is all.
To the south of the US, you have Mexico, not Canada.
I shall refrain from passing a snide comment on your geographic knowledge.
*snigger*
Use ISO 8601 dates [YYYY-MM-DD]
At least we Americans will still enjoy the largest amount of freedom 'in' the US. No one will be asking for our papers when we travel. In your face, facist Canada!
I drank what? -- Socrates
The one and only time I travelled to Canada, the Canadian border guy asked what nationality I was.
I replied "Texan".
He asked, "You mean American, eh?".
I responded, "Oh yeah, I keep forgetting that the rest of the USA is in Texas too."
I live in Buffalo, and Erie county has one of the highest percentage population over 65 of any county in the country. Now many of us cross the border on a regular basis. Rowing, doughnuts, french fries, chinese food, highschool kids go drinking, summer homes, etc. Our old people go shopping (cheaper Ice Cream other side of the border). It will be utterly hilarious when there's hundereds of senior citizens crossing into cananda forgetting their passports (as most American don't have them in the first place). And then getting stranded in Canada. I for one may just "forget" my passport and not come back. Not that it matters, since you can always hop in a motor boat, kayak, or dare I say it SWIM! You're supposed to check in with customs, but no one ever does.
You mean Arizona and California are still part of America? As in the Unites States of America? Or just North America?
You obviously don't live in one of these states, do you?
As a US citizen, I am expected to honor the border crossing requirements of all the countries I travel to, including planning ahead for those that require a visa. I'm expected to put up with the nonsense of an Australian customs inspector who wanted to fine me for bringing Australian-produced chocolate back into Australia after a two day side-trip to New Zealand. I'm expected to leave my passport with the train conductor when I travel cross-continent in Europe (can anyone else say "identity theft"?)
So now the US wants to have visitors here produce some ID to show they belong, just like all the countries I visit have demanded from me. "Its an insult to Canadians!" Oh, please. If you don't want to come here, stay home. And if you are a US citizen who travels out of country, get a passport. Problem solved.
I'm not sure why people think having to carry a passport to leave the country is a big deal. I'm Canadian, and I've never even thought of leaving the country without a passport, it is the only proof you have of where you're from and where you are legally allowed to be. People have no problem shelling out $70 every 5 years for their drivers licenses in order to drive a car, how is this different?
True story: last year I lost my (Canadian) passport and had to get a replacement in a hurry because I was going overseas. I chose to pick the passport up at the local passport office because I could be sure to get it in ten days. Mailing it (the usual procedure) would have introduced an uncertain delay I wasn't willing to risk.
When I showed up at the passport office with my barcode receipt, the girl behind the counter scanned the barcode and then went and retrieved my passport.
And then she said: "I'll need to see some ID."
I swear, I Am Not Making This Up.
Her: "I'll need to see some ID."
Me, flabbergasted: "Er... I thought that was the id."
Her, with a warning tone in her voice: "Well, this is a travel document, but in order to release it to you I have to see some ID."
Me, getting snarky: "Well, you know, I thought you could open the passport, look at the picture, look at my face and say 'Hey, that's the guy!' You know -- like you expect border control at every other country in the world to do?"
Her, chilly as the Arctic: "That's as may be, but I'll still need to see some ID."
Me, exasperated: "All right, but what does it say that you trust the Alberta Driver's License security process more than your own?"
I still haven't gotten over that one. =)
This Brit will find somewhere else to take his tourist money then.
Honestly, the US economy is dying on its arse as it is - I'm surprised they're even bothering to invent new ways of stopping people bringing dollars to America...
v4sw6HPU$hw5ln6pr5$ck4ma8u7LMO$w2m6l7DL$i2e3t4MWb9AHKMRTen5a29s0r1p-5.88/-8.36g5CST
Papers, citizen.
Excuse me, but how do you think we feel about it? Any Americans with two neurons left to rub together to make a spark is saddened by the souring of our relationship with you. And not just you but just about every other country on the planet.
How would you like to be saddled with George Bush and have 52% of your fellows think he's just a great guy? And then try to blame you for their vote because you didn't come up with a better candidate. Try it for a while and see how it feels.
We're watching a country we love descend into ignorance, intolerance and fear.
That's our life, the big wheel of shit. - The Fat Man, Blue Tango Salvage
Is that you felt you had to post that anonymously.
..don't panic
You still have to choose amongst the government systems actually in use.
Idealistic nonsense about both democracy and communism are bad is just that - nonsense.
Shouldn't be too long before interstate travel in the US requires a passport. That'll finally put an end to criminals moving to another state to hide from the law.
...
And we all know that's a double plus good thing, right, comrade?
Back in the USSR
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
A few years ago I drove an hour to niagara falls to go wine tasting across the border with some friends.
Since I originated in Maine, and have lived near the border all my life, on at least a dozen prior occasions I've crossed with no problem, sometimes asked for ID, sometimes just waved through.
(I am a young unthreatening looking geeky white male)
So this time I rolled up to the window, and when he asked for ID I handed him the driver's licenses of those in the car.
He asked for my passport, a first. I hadn't bothered to bring it. He then proceeded to lecture me for 15 minutes on how gracious the Canadian government was that I had the opportunity to visit them, and that in no way it should be considered a right to enter the country.
Never mind the 1.5 miles of bumper to bumper traffic behind me of tourists, like myself. They had to wait as he explained.
So shocked was I as being treated like a criminal, that I instinctly laughed nervously, never having been interrogated like this.
'You think this is funny???' he yelled like an inept schooteacher, and I had to use every inch of willpower not to tell him to fuck off since I had just sat in traffic for an hour to reach the border.
He warned me if I ever approached the border again without a passport, they'd for sure send me home.
I went back to Canada a few months later, with passport at hand, and got waved through without so much as a glance at my driver's license...
"I only speak the truth"
Karma: null(Mostly affected by an unassigned variable)
by the border.
It's so busy with tourists during your summer month.
:/
All you pansies near the border can STFU. Farther north, we're lucky if summer falls on a weekend.
Personally, as a British citizen (and one involved in the fight against ID cards here), I resent the prospect of being fingerprinted, and treated like a common criminal, so much that I will not travel to the USA. I have nothing to hide, but I know that once fingerprints are on record, they will never be deleted, and I value my privacy. As a consequence, our family has not holidayed in the USA since, and this will cost the USA $10,000+ in lost income over a few years. Hopefully, the Democrats will change the policy back when GWB is finally kicked out.
What happened to the USA? It was a free country with ideals, and now it is becoming a tyranny.
And the technological stupidity of adding un-encrypted RFID tags to passports, "to make it easier for third world goverments" that will be able to find a RFID reader, but not a lap-top PC, leading to a world market in Faraday Passort Covers, undoubtably a new export opportunity for China,
I wonder how long it will take these insular beaurocrats to understand that the rest of the world won't stand for it!
I look fondly forward to returning to Switzerland to see a VERY long line of US Citizens waiting to be fingerprinted by a single Polizstin doing her job, slowly, very carefully and with Swiss precision.
"I don't care. It only affects those who have something to hide."
Welcome to Soviet America. Please produce your papers.
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
According to this, you're not even a member of these United States. Which makes you, A COMMUNIST!!!
Well, I suppose the State Department http://www.state.gov/ is needing to boost their income. Interesting how terror has created new funding opportunities.
But the USA is so busy with Americans all year long.
As an American, I have to ask ... just what did our Northern friends do to deserve this? Oh, I forgot: it's to stop terrorists. Sure. But after we have four or five years of this additional foolishness behind us, I'll wager that not a single terrorist will have been apprehended or kept from entering the U.S. Probably it will work about as well as England's fetish with video cameras.
Also reminds me of the old "security" at airports pre-9/11, when they would ask everyone if they packed their own luggage and if they were with their bags the entire time. What kind of moron terrorist would say no?
Parent is right. As an international student with an Indian passport I travel twice a year from Toronto to Bangalore which amounts to spending about $3000-$4000 becuase i always travel during peak tourist times which are summer holidays and Christmas.
Tickets from New York to Bangalore would garner savings on the order of $500-$800, but I'd rather not travel through a country that requires me to have a transit bloody visa simply becuase I'm going to be in their airport lounge for about ~3 hours between flights. Moreover having an Indian passport requires me to go through an Interview at the American Consulate in Toronto just for the Transit visa!(scheduling an interview takes about 3-4weeks during busy seasons)
It's lunacy/paranoia like this that has compelled me to avoid even holidaying in the US in the 3 years that I've been in Canada.
I'm glad you took the time to write the response you did. It is very rare to hear from Americans who dislike the direction their country has taken. Because of the massive amount of words and action from the other 52% of your fellows, it is damn near impossible not to generalize or write-off the whole country.
Actually I believe there were at least a couple of occassions that terrorists tried to enter the U.S. across the Canadian-U.S. border. Ahmed Ressam was probably the most noteworthy.
I didn't know this issue was a big deal. In fact I thought it was already a done deal. Last time I went to Canada from Seattle the border agent told me that my Driver's License was not "adequate ID" to enter Canada and I may not be able to re-enter the U.S. This was two years ago. Of course the funny thing being right after he told me this he let me go on through. Yes, it was just a warning to get people like me prepared to need to use a passport. So I got one. No big deal. I'm not going to be able to go to Europe, South America, or Asia without one anyway, why not Canada?
Everybody dies frustrated and sad and that is beautiful
US merchants just south of the border are
not happy with the Amercian government plan to have all travellers
carry passports within a few years.
The passport move could cost money for members of the
Bellingham-Whatcom Chamber of Commerce.
President and CEO Ken Oplinger says border issues are already causing
problems for their businesses.
With a few years before the land border passport requirement comes
into place, he hopes they can lobby for changes.
Note: Many of the Factory Outlet Malls in the U.S. Border Town never recovered from the tighten secure from 9/11
I have heard that phrase before.
I travel. Not as much as some people, but I do travel an awful lot. In the last 10 years, I've been to 20 different nations on multiple trips. I carry more forms of identification than anyone should rightfully have to carry, even excluding the ID (4 pieces of photo ID) that I have to carry for my job. And I have more trouble geting back into the United States than into any other nation.
* note: 4 of the 4 pieces of ID I carry for my job include background checks.
You think some parts of the US/Canada border are weird? Then consider Baarle:
It is a Dutch town in the Netherlands. But it is also a Dutch town in Belgium. And a Belgian town in Belgium. And a Belgian town in the Netherlands. And there are even bits of the Dutch town in the Belgian town in the Dutch town.
In effect, you have the Netherlands surrounded by Belgium surrounded by Belgium bordering on Belgium.
Confused? Me too.
http://www.straight.com/content.cfm?id=4051
Yes, terrorism might be a part of it. But this is about enforcing existing laws. Is it so much to ask people to provide more proof of citizenship than "Yeah, I'm a citizen" or a driver's license? The law requires proof of citizenship. Using passports to prove citizenship is the best way to do so, in the absence of a national ID card (regardless of whether that's a good thing, it would certainly make the whole situation a bit simpler).
The government is not being discriminatory here. All it's doing is enforcing its own laws. That's supposed to be a good thing. Due process of law and all that.
But, this being Slashdot, people will (and, as a matter of fact, did) take this as a terrible infringement on their rights and blamed the Bush administration for taking ridiculous measures to "combat terrorism." People brought up non-arguments like "But passports can be forged." Not as easily as a driver's license or the sentence "Yes, I am a citizen."
What I want to know is, why aren't they doing this for the southern border?
...but is it art?
WASHINGTON - In response to a new rule requiring most Canadians to carry passports for entry into the U.S., Public Security Minister Anne McLellan said Americans may also have to carry the document to enter Canada.
"Our system has really always worked on the basis of reciprocity," McLellan said outside the House of Commons.
"And therefore we will review our requirements for American citizens and we're going to do that in collaboration with the United States.
"There's no point in either of us going off in a direction without working together to determine how best we can facilitate the flow - a free flow - and movement of low-risk individuals."
I remember being a kid visiting Canada and walking over one of the bridges into NY State. You know, past the doughnut-munching border security guys that seemed so prevalent in those days. Anyway, I was happily scouting around in the American bush looking for stones (telling myself happily over and over that these were *American* stones I was looking at now), when my Dad saw me and almost had apoplexy.
Needless to say, 21 years later, I now have three passports and regularly travel within and outside of Europe. Things sure have changed since the "auld days". More security. More suspicion. And passports checks at EVERY airport or crossing, no matter if you're an EU citizen or not.
Y'know, part of me can't help but pine for those days when a foreign kid was able to slip into the States. The worst thing about the whole experience was that I only got offered ONE doughnut by one of the border security guards instead of two or more. If I managed to do the same things nowadays, I'm sure I'd be rectally examined, be screened for radiocative material, be slung into a dark corner somewhere while some idiotic US Senator called me a "jewvinyl turr'st" on the world media and generally wait for six months until the diplomatic shitstorm was over.
Slowly, but ever so surely, the world is turning into a more unpleasant place. Blame it on maximising shareholder value and short election cycles. Together - along with lawyers / solicitors / whatever-they-call-themselves-the-results-are-the- same - it's the unholy trinity that is ruining the world around us.
I was on leave from the US Army a few years back, while changing duty stations from Ft. Carson, CO to Ft. Drum, NY. I went home to Northern Minnesota and decided to cut through Canada to avoid Chicago and it's toll booths and traffic. Getting into Canada was fairly routine, "Why you here? Where are you going? Do you have any explosives?" then I was on my way. Canada was nice, people were friendly, no problems.
I got to the US boarder crossing and things went to hell. I go in and report to the boarder guard and he asks if I have a passport. I told him no but, I did have a drivers license from Minnnesota. He told me that the license was not proof of citizinship, which is true. Ok well here is my military ID card. He said "That was only proof that I was a member of the military not a US Citizen". Okay, what about my PCS orders from the Dept of the Army. "Nope." My enlistment papers? "Unuh." Finally I found my initial enlistment papers with a copy of my certificate of birth abroad ( I was born in Berlin Germany to my US citizen parents who were stationed there). The boarder guard reluctantly accepted those as proof, although I am sure he thought I was going to break out in a rousing chant of "Hail to the furher". He then asked if he could search my car. I said "sure, why not" after all everything is strewn out on the side of the road because of the search for my papers. After checking my car he told me I could go. Driving away I thought to myself "Welcome to the United States".
Socialism argues that scale efficiencies work just as well for public institutions (if they are implemented well) as they do for companies. It also argues that some needs CANNOT be met by market forces alone. It says nothing about how you go about implementing these things, how restricted people are, or indeed much of anything else.
Indeed, Britain is one of America's strongest allies in just about every respect and is a partner in just about every area of business. It is also a key player in the SIGINT effort. Politically, though, Britain is a socialist state. If socialism was so much "the enemy", shouldn't America invade England, rather than cooperate with it so closely at every level?
Americans castigate socialism at every opportunity, but frankly I'm impressed they can even spell it, their knowledge is so limited.
It is a double irony that America worships the whole "mystique" of the Celts and Celtic countries, given that the Celts invented Socialism in the first place and that virtually every country in the Old World that is socialist is Celtic. If there's so much damn mystique, maybe Americans should stop and think about what it is that makes those cultures so different from America.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
...do you? If you show up to reenter the country without your passport, it just becomes a hassle. If you were dumb enough to leave without it, then you deserve the hassle. If you lost your passport, then the State Department has a set of very easy procedures in place for you to replace it. All of this crap of "oh no, they won't let me in the country without a passport" is just that: crap. People lose their passports all the time. The State Department takes care of things.
I don't see the Presidency here getting either of those powers. The constitution stands in the way of both.
Although, IIRC the white house had plans on how to suspend the 2004 elections.
If, states would spend more time making harder to forge driver's licences, I'd bet that no one would care about passports. However, there are states like CA and AZ that want to issue driver's licences to everyone who applies (including illegal aliens), so basically, like a social security card, they are quite useless as citizenship identification. Unfortunatly, the Feds can't prevent the states from issuing DL's to anybody walking in the door, so that's that...
Not that this matters, as people complain (and esp., the US govt worker's unions complain about the extra work), eventually, I predict there will be a EU-like card for US/CAN/MEX. There is one already for US/CAN and US/MEX, that you can get if you don't want the hassle of a passport.
Seems like nothing to see here, move along...
Usually the canadian border agents lecture you about Canada being another country than the US and let you through after an appropriate amount of scolding takes place. Basically, I've learned that if you want to avoid a lecture by the Canadian mounties, bring your passport...
(and oh, by the way, an asian guy speaking high-school level french with a slight french-canadian accent makes this situation that much worse, although that may be a west-coast thing)
Or, for another example, take China. I've only seen a little bit of China, the bit near Hong Kong. But you get a sense of just how quickly parts of China are growing when you go there.
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from a rigged demo
--Andy Finkel (J. Klass?)
Point Roberts, WA
What I really would like to see is evidence that Canada, US, and Europe are sharing more of their security files. I think this would probably make our world much more secure.
But now, what I really would like to know is:
We are paying the cost of invading Iraq but I do not see the price of the gas dropping on the pumps. What is going on here? Why is the price of our gas going up?
In other news, a new law will require strip searches, fingerprinting, and a passport for anyone entering or leaving the United States or its possessions. Persons who carry a badge identifying them as members of a terrorist organization, however, will be allowed through on a "no questions asked' policy.
People will go to Canada with no passports then try to go home and can't.
So what will more likely happen is Canada will get pissed with all these Americans stuck in their country that they will just start requiring Americans to come in with passports if they want to go home.
Any country Americans visit will probably do the same thing.
The passport requirement is nothing new for those of us who transport firearms across the US/Canadian border. I must have my US passport along with my Canadian firearms license, Canadian registration papers for each of the firearms, and a trip permit (a very difficult to get document) if any of the firearms are handguns.
So now, everybody else is going to have to go through what law-abiding American (*and* Canadian) gun owners have gone through for the past several years.
I find it very difficult to feel much sympathy.
That's the way that oppression happens, dear liberal boys and girls. First, impose new nasty rules to a minority in the name of "safety". Then, gradually widen the scope of who gets affected, until it's everybody.
Under a conservative government, those out of favor with conservatives feel it more. Under a liberal government, those out of favor with liberals feel it more. Neither undoes the erosion of liberty imposed by the other; they just make their own additions.
Come on, try harder.
If you try and want to be popular it is not only easy but fun to fault the US.
Repeat after me, "Americans are Der Juden."
and again.
"Americans are Der Juden."
just keep repeating until it comes easily.
What's this have to do with my rights online?
-- "I never gave these stories much credence." - HAL 9000
What? The? Fuck?
UTF-8: There and Back Again
What about those illegal Mexicans crossing our borders in the south? What will our American government do to stop illegal entry into our nation?
This is great point! Communist were very good at checking IDs and all that crap. In USSR, you had to had a freeking permission to travel from one city to another. In all communist countries, you had carry an ID booklet with you all the time, and the cops had a right to inspect your ID at any time they wanted. There were all sorts of restrictions on where you could or couldn't do. But if you really wanted to get somewhere, it was always possible.
AccountKiller
- Both countries are (basically) federal republics, with fairly honest governments based on (English) Common Law;
- The border west of the Great Lakes is arbitrary anyway, and would never stand if we were on opposite sides in a war;
- The United States, and especially Washington, D.C., could use some new blood. I wish Congress would meet on the shore of the Hudson Bay on occasion.
- The Texan Superhiway needs to go all the way to the Arctic Circle! Yeah!
- They've got good weed up there, eh?
Seriously, I think that the biggest objection to the idea is that it would be bad for business in border-towns. Sure, at least one country would have to bear the expense of changing its symbols, standards and government organization (mabey we'd finally adopt the Metric system down here?), but the loudest complainers would be people who derive profit from inequities in the current system.I've been to points farther north in the U.S. (Milwaukee) than in Canada (just along Highway 401 from Sarnia to Toronto, and also to Niagra Falls). Of course, it's harder to go really far north, because at some point it's just all evergreen forest and then tundra, and roads don't actually go through.
This policy doesn't look like it'll affect me, as I carry a passport anyway. As other posters have said, a driver's license doesn't actually demonstrate citizenship; for instance, the State of Michigan accepts a foreign passport (with English translation of the headings) as proof of I.D. when obtaining one.
Ahhh, the benefits of massive immigration of
Non-Europeans over the last 10+ years. This
new passport policy would never have come to
pass if it weren't for our self-destructive
policy of achieving racial "diversity". This
is only one of the many benefits to come. Enjoy
the new diverse America!!! (I wont...)
truly, a noble and dignified crew of language police
Ever travelled to Italy? Within 100ft of the border (from Switzerland), our trained was stopped, and armed (HK MP5s) officers went to every car and checked every passport. And this was 6 years ago, so stop complaining about Europes 'openness'. Although, some countries in Europe wouldn't stamp your passport if you paid them to.
This shouldn't bother anyone. By 2008, King George will have removed the annoying term limit and set up a dynasty for his children to rule the new American Socialist Society Having Anti-Terrorism Support.
All those who are still free to move around the streets without setting off the RFID coded machine gun nests will undoubtedly be heading to Canada and will probably not be overly concerned with returning.
Of course, those of us loyal citizens who put up with unemployment and gasoline rationing over the last 8 years will be happy to see them go, since it will make the food lines shorter, and if enough of them go away, we may get 2-ply toilet paper like we used to have.
Constitution? Of course, but that requires ultraviolet clearance... Why do you ask, Citizen?
I'm not the only one with this problem, and this is not a troll just real facts.
Your insolence at being inconvenienced should be directed at the Islamic jihadis who have waged war on the world.
Is always nice to know what the frothing morons are up to. . .
"Another POV" as if there is no objective reality; it's just all "points of view" -- equally valid and credible. Get an intellectual grip. Now. Before it's too late.
I understand that you need to slap the hand of an american who didnt get their passport in order, but MAKING THE STAY IN CANADA???
thats some harsh punishment.
There's nothing Intelligent about Intelligent Design.
Jesus, decadence knows no end; grow the fuck up.
You will dismiss this but not so long ago, men your age were fighting and dying for this country and you're such a fat, lazy fuck that you're complaining about having to get a passport so you can get loaded?
Where are us 19-20 year olds from Michigan going to go to get wasted legally? This is an outrage! How the government do such a thing to us underage michiganders? Not only will this be a big hassle, but the cost of going to Canada will be raised by about $100 (passport) by this outrageously crazy scheme.
the lusitania is a minor point in my mind.. the XYZ note being much, much more significant.
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
whyyyy
Achtung! When you untermenschen enter the Homeland, your fingerprints, retinal patterns and face will be scanned! Your papers Must be in order! The Oberststurmbahnfuhrer will ask you questions. You will reply politely with all the facts. Failure to meet these rwquirements will result in immediate trans-shipment to the nearest re-education camp! Remember this is Amerika, Land of Lies and Home of Hypocrisy! Celebrate our Freedom and Liberty!
Seriously. Since the enviromentalists got congress to mandate low flow toilets, Americans have been smuggling the normal ones in from Canada.
Eagles may soar, but weasles don't get sucked into jet engines...
thats a funny theory...
:)
i'm a red state resident (and by intention) and i voted to the right of the current administration (by european standards)
i just spent a month in germany and iceland, including 2 weeks of schooling in the german language.
I for the life of me cannot understand where the radical left, and those who foam at the mouth with their hatred of the US / the current admnistration come from.. i've yet to hear of a perfect politician but man, i just dont get the fuss. With this in mind, i figured i'd hear it from the horses mouth and come back to the states with some kind of new perspective on life.
Instead what i learned is that at least from the people i spoke with, the violently anti-US and anti-bush fever is fed and spun basically everywhere, and its almost more of a beleif/perspective than anything objective.
After being badgered about it for a while, I tried asking some relatives in iceland why they felt the need to tell me that they hated GWB (i never brought up poltiics, but plenty of people, upon finding i was american, told me they hated Bush, are hoping hillary clinton wins in 08, and that the US government sucks.. all totaly out of context of whatever the conversation was)
What i got was: europeans generally dislike bush for 3 reasons
1) iraq invasion
2) "he's too right wing"
3) "he's too religious"
skipping point 1, i asked about the other two.
regarding point #2, i asked if being "right wing" was intrinsically bad. it apparently isn't. then i pointed out that, compared to europe, the US _is_ right wing, and furthermore, the US was founded by people that either couldn't stand, couldn't survive, or couldn't legally continue to, put up with the bullshit of the governments of europe, so if we dont have the same exact world view, there's a reason for that. I also assured him that some in the US are vastly more "right wing" than GWB, who has really let down some of the red state voters on some issues..
on point 3, well, i asked what the objection was. apparently the president should never use "God" in a speech. Nevermind that our money has "In god we trust" written on it. Nevermind also that in Iceland, the president's house has its own private church on the grounds, and the president is expected to enter that building to pray for the country in times of danger. Or that in Germany, you've got the Christian Democratic party with a huge percentage of power. Yet the US/GWB is seen as beeing "too religious". Riiiiiiight.
I also had a very interesting discussion on the iraq war issue with them, and i wouldn't say that they had a compelling argument, although thats too much flamebait even for slashdot
In any case, I really liked some of the things big government and overregulation gets you (like the munich public transit system, and unrestricted autobahns... only possible with the ridiculous TUV and licensing process in germany).. but after talking with people and finding a lot more heat than light, i was glad to be returning to the US. My wife is exicted about purchasing our first family firearm, since the students we met from dublin told us over and over that they were mortified that someone in the US could have a gun in their home, and that such a person would be insane, and that they'd never even enter a _building_ with resident-owned firearms inside.. fearing for their safety.
Finally, i told the people that were frothy at the mouth about how awful the US government was, that, unlike their countries, if they disliked how the US did things, they could move here, learn english (which most europeans under the age of 40 know quite well anyhow), pay their $75 or whatever it is, vote, and do something to change it.
In any case, I look forward to going back to Germany as often as possible, if for no other reason than the Nurburgring and the unrestricted zones, but one reason i suspect i'll never live there is that getting residency/citizenship in germany is a he
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
Why not build a wall and call it "The Great Wall of Asshats"?
Communism has indead taken over the usa.
George Bush Jr. is a pinko commie faggot, and I've been saying this for years.
Free country indeed.
Okay, call me naive, but who the hell leaves the country without their freakin' passport?!?!?! I'm assuming that there will be some sort of provision where if you're stuck outside the country w/o your possport, then you can get documents at the nearest embasy that will get you across the border, but WHO THE HELL LEAVES THE COUNTRY WITHOUT THEIR FREAKIN' PASSPORT?!?!?!?!?! I was dumbfounded when I came back from Mexico without needing to show a passport. They didn't even make me take my motorcycle helmet all the way off to cross the border (just flipped the visor up to show the guard I was white and I was on my way...). All they asked was if I had any fruit! If you ask me, our border could use a little tightening! If you're dumb enough to leave the country without your passport, then you deserve the headache of filling out paperwork at the embasy to get back. (yes, I realize that people do lose their passports or other circumstances could arise, but really, come on, WHAT THE HELL, THIS MAKES SENSE!!! NO PASSPORT, NO PASSING THE DAMN PORT OF ENTRY!!!).
I mean, why does slashdot require me to specify a password to login? Shouldn't my name be good enough? After all, who could possibly want to impersonate me?
And what's the big deal about fixing Linux security holes? Those holes are only going to be a problem if people try to take advantage and do things no sane normal person would do. My precious time is being unfairly wasted keeping up with the patches just because some "hacker" might try to overflow a buffer.
Meh. I don't do sarcasm well.
What has changed is that over the past 20 or so years, our government has bribed the leaders, financially ruined, financed revolts, caused starvation of citizens, declared bogus war on, killed tens of thousands of citizens of many oil rich countries all for gaining access to oil reserves. This kind of thing tends to make people hate you, perhaps after a while, even seek revenge against you any way possible. This is what the U.S. government is calling "terrorism". Perhaps it is now real, perhaps it is smoke to keep the U.S. citizens from seeing what is really going on in this country's affairs.
Where does information go after it has been erased?
I was wondering if anyone had the guts|brains|imagination to think of/say this.
The difference between spam and poop is that you don't have to dig through septic tanks looking for real food. -- Me
The example you give, of Baarle, is within the EU, and within two Schengen agreement countries, which means there are no controlled borders in that community. The difficulties are ones of a bureaucratic nature, like post, telephone and taxes, but they aren't anything that will get your mail stopped or visitors arrested.
- The man can't do public speaking.
- He contradicts himself frequently
- He lies or is completely out to lunch about the "facts"
...
But of all his faults, his biggest is that he's too brash. The people who criticize him without too much reasoning often do so because they simply dislike the way that he pushes his "ideas" through.I don't dislike him for having ideas (though I don't like the majority of them), and I don't dislike him for being strong. But I do dislike him for the way he uses his power.
I liked Clinton, though to be brutally honest, he did a terrible job on most fronts. But he had a great way of making people feel good about what he was doing (or at least said he was going to do). When he pushed his weight around, it was all behind the scenes. Heck, Clinton was a better republican than either of the Bushes when it comes to cutting government spending and reducing aid programs.
GW just doesn't have finess. Very few of the "radical right" do.
This kind of politics may play well in some parts of the US, or even during spike periods (e.g. around elections and "hot-button" issues...though often on irrelevant issues)...but it often divides that country. And for "foreigners" (like me), it often pits many who would have little-to-no opinion of "Americans" to be rather upset with them.
It must have blown up since Clinton is weak on terrorism.
I Now have coffee on my keyboard thanks to you.
But it was worth it!
It not only takes forever but you have to take shoe out and your belt :P.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
The US ambassdor in Ireland recently gave a speech to Trinity collage which was more or less begging students to come to the US.
Before student visas were a doddle to get and many Irish students went to the US for the seasonal jobs (that the US has a problem filling btw with its own people).
Now the students are required to pay a large amount of cash for the visa and queue for hours to get an interview from the US embassey and get fingerprinted/etc. Its just not worth the hassle.
I forget the exact figures, but it is something like over 50% less students from Ireland visiting the US and is still dropping.
I have flown through LAX from Asia to Canada twice and both times I marveled at the idiocy of having to line up like cattle to go through immigration and then walk with your luggage from the one terminal to the other to catch a *connecting flight*. What on Earth would stop a person from entering the US on a ticket to Vancouver or Toronto and not bother continuing the rest of their journey? I can't imagine I am the first to think of this idea. To boot, the airport is a toilet, with virtually no comforts or amenities you'd find at almost ANY other international airport. Coming from Singapore it was a horrid shock. I have sworn never to fly through the US again and in five years I have kept to that promise.
Just kidding.
Hi
With all those reports about identity theft in the US of A, and how easy it apparently is to get all kind of services with that stolen identity, i think that it would be just enough to let every US passport holder undergo the same treatment when they enter any foreign country as they demand from foreigners right now. That includes visa, fingerprint, retina scan, full flight data (including all credit card info, special treatments, meals etc pp). I can already hear the outcry: "Wah! Wah! But we are the good guys. News flash: no, you're not. Thank your government for being the big Bully around the world, now almost nobody wants to be your frined anymore, and no, we don't want to play with you. Go away and make it a national drama that some chick showed a nipple on TV.
Achtung! Papiere, bitte!
Or maybe it's just from living in a country where we don't share any land borders - and really, who decided those? - but I just don't get the idea of passports and countries in this day and age.
As far as I can tell most people in this world just want to live their lives - have a bit of fun, eat a hearty meal, live in a house that provides a comfortable shelter, and get from point a to point b without too much effort.
Whether you're from Canada, the U.S., Mexico, Japan, England, The Netherlands, Germany, Norway, Australia, Kenya, Brazil (Brasil?), or where-ever, I bet that right now you're probably worried about mainly the same things as some guy on the other side of the world - "Can I get something to eat when I'm hungry?", "Can I be entertained when I'm bored?", "I hope I stay dry when it rains" and so on.
As far as I can tell, there isn't any benefit to having artificial borders superimposed on the landscape of the earth any more. A lot of big companies work internationally with little needed regard to borders, and a lot of small companies only deal with local business simply because it's cheaper to deal locally.
People, your average Joe Blogs, probably doesn't even think of countries - with regards to borders and where you can't go without funny bits of paper - unless he's going on holiday, and I doubt that he's thinking of the wonderful convenience of paying money - which he'd rather spend on food, clothes, and trinkets - for the funny bits of paper that say he "belongs" to a certain country.
The internet is international, without borders other than those of language and culture, and it thrives, sometimes with nastiness, but more often with usefulness.
Imagine for a moment that everyone ignored the borders. We all just decide "to hell with the red tape and bureaucratic nonsense, I want to visit somewhere different and get a taste of what's over there".
What about laws? What about the different laws that various nations have?
I only know of a few laws that are international, and not created by someone, somewhere, who had a financial stake in getting the law passed and perceived that they could make a buck out of it.
Don't kill. Don't rape. Don't steal.
So, we lose the borders, obliterate thousands of laws that make no sense and only benefit those who either know how to exploit the loop-holes (or ignore them all together, i.e. black market), and change the standing armies of the world into police forces to enforce the core laws mentioned above.
Anarchy, with consideration.
It's a very simplistic view, but I can't see much in the governments of the world that hasn't been created merely for the purposes of putting more money into the pockets of those in charge while creating the illusion that they're doing something for their citizens.
We don't need the government any more. We just need an organisation that ensures that people are able to live out their lives in relative peace - although harmony might be a bit late on delivery - and ensures that the core services we enjoy today - safe transportation, healthcare, emergency services - are provided in the future.
There is no need for all the other fluff. What added benefit does the government provide to film makers? Television studios? Home viewers? Farmers? Chefs? Clothing manufacturers? Okay, add a non-exploitation law for manufacturing. What benefit is there today in passports and international boundaries?
If you were looking at Earth from another planet, wouldn't you think that our bad distribution of life-enhancing services, petty squabbles over oil, and complete ignorance of the fact we have to share this little blue-green speck, amongst a myriad of other problems, was pretty fucking stupid?
His name is Robert Paulsen...
They still ask those questions (in Europe at least). Would anyone dare to say "actually, my mum packed my bag"?
Many tourists will make Canada a destination now, and many more will use a Canadian hub in transit to another, non-us destination. A quick stop in Canada, then a hop OVER the USA to your final destination.
...they plan to stop this in the next stage - fingerprints and mugshots of all travelling in US airspace. After all, they could highjack a plane passing over the US.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Step 1: Set up cheap vacation offers. Advertise them heavily in Blue States.
Step 2: On the bus trip up, collect passports "for quicker porcessing". Conveniently forget to return them after crossing the border.
Step 3: When victims are sleeping in their hotel rooms, bus goes back to the States. Passports are still in bus.
Step 4: FNORD
Step 5: When victims try to return, accuse them of being foreigners pretending to be stranded tourists.
Hey we are not citizens, we are subjects (of Her Majesty) in good ol' Blighty.
" So now I'll need to get a passport - which costs $87, and must be renewed every 5 years - just to cross the border??!"
That's like me having to pay £80 for a UK passport-ID Card just because the govt. tells me to.
At least you have the option to not get a passport.
This is asinine. 9/11 Attacks were planned over a period of 2 years or more. The true threats are from well organized, well financed, well trained, organizations. I am willing to bet if any terrorist were to cross into the US through ANY means he will have paperwork in perfect order including a Passport.
With a family of 5 I would need to spend $335 on passports to drive into NY for a vacation! A close friend of mine has 9 children! They would need to spend over $500 on passports. (And this cost would be realized again every 5 years. FYI Passport costs have risen 50% in the past 7 years).
Fine U.S. require passports for Canadians. The Canadian Tourism Boards thanks you for the huge economic boost from Canadians who will choose to vacation within our own Country. But that's the whole point isn't it ? Keeping people out of the U.S.?
As a Canadian if I'm going to get a Passport I might as well go to the Caribbean.
Link for Canadian passport costs: http://www.pptc.gc.ca/passports/get_fees_e.asp
I can't say I'm at all happy with the way the US is going these days. That's why I fled to live in Japan.
A bulky document like a passport is superior to a wallet-sized card, precisely because people aren't going to routinely carry it unless they know they're going to need it. This creates a barrier against the sort of "mission creep" that has afflicted (for example) US Social Security numbers.
(Personally, I'd recommend creating a standardized bulky document -- call it a passport, or not -- for all occasions where proof of identity could be legitimately required. Ideally, it should be required at the polls, but then the government would have to make it available at no cost.)
/. If the government wants us to respect the law, it should set a better example.
Otherwise they would have wiped us out long ago.
Consider if Timothy McVeigh parked his UHaul in front of 18 Broad Street, NYC instead.
The damage to the US economy would be incalculable.
Yeah, right.
I'm afriad I missed the part about the passport requirement, Mr. WaterBreath. Could you please point it out to me?
You know, the funny thing is that a birth certificate is currently what is required, and that actually makes sense. If I can show documentation that I was born in the US, then guess what, I'm a citizen!
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
Tens of people actually die trying to make the crossing. Not worth doing such feat only to avoid the passport hassle, isn't it?
This situation prevails because the US behaves on its typical hypocratical fashion. Mexicans go the the US because there is work, very often the people that decry the Mexican invasion on the other hand hire illegal workers in order to save a buck.
Your spinless politicians are making as much political gain as possible pandering to racists and xenophobes when they well know that if they were serious about closing the border (the USSR could handle a much bigger border, how comest the US can't?) the economy of a good part of the southern US states would colapse (which is why they don't do it.
Politicians that would be concerned about the situation would be trying to make fair immigration laws to allow enough legal immigration to provide man power for those jobs USians clearly do not want to do.
As the grandson of a Mexican that died crossing to the US (his unspeakable crim: trying to better himslef and his family) I resent strongly people making fun of such tragic situation.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
They're not wondering if you're a terrorist, they want to know if your nice new middle eastern boyfriend put a clock radio in your bag.
Look up what happened to Anne Marie Murphy in 1986.
Watch this Heartland Institute video
"Born in East L.A." by Cheech Meron. Today, more than ever, it has real relivance.
:-)
Happy motoring?
Why do I say this? Because your fucking contry is way more of a pain in the ass regarding visas than the US is. Including with fucking transit visas.
Stay away, moron!
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
But please don't let the facts get in the way of a good US-bashing session. Carry on.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
It's even funnier for a ski trip. Anyone who is willing to shell out US$70 for a daily lift pass plus US$35 for equipment rental isn't really going to balk at the expense of CA$87 for getting a passport.
Don't get me wrong. I think it's stupid to require passports to travel between the US and Canada. I think it's really stupid to require US citizens to have a passport to enter the country. But I really doubt it's going to have much of an effect on that type of tourism. It might, however, deter the average 19 year old college student from crossing into Canada to go get wasted. I'm sure Canada wouldn't mind that being curtailed a bit.
Also, I don't think the big resorts would really care about this. I mean, it's not like Vail would be empty, were it not for the 16 Canadians who come every year to avoid freezing their asses off at Whistler. And if Disney went out of business because no more Canadians went to Disneyland.. well.. I'd drink to that! But it ain't gonna happen. :)
Also remember, there are millions more people in California than Canada. And that's just one state. I guess my point is that if Canadians completely quit coming to the US, I doubt anyone here would notice.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
A guy I work with is Canadian, but he's lived in the US for about 15 years. He'll probably never lose that accent. Hopefully he won't. It's goddamn hilarious to listen to the guy try to speak US English.
"Avoid employing unlucky people - throw half of the pile of CVs in the bin without reading them." -- David Brent
I don't agree with all your points but no way above is flamebait... hope this gets caught in metamod.
Wanted: One witty yet thought provoking
BTW, if it was a link to the 9/11 commission bill, there was originally language in it for screening just like Mccain talks about.
The last time I looked it has gone from being part of the law to being a subject that DHS will research and report back to congress on.
I.E. they need to see if it is pheasible yet.
I like the Thomas site, but the expiring links suck.
Service guarantees Citizenship! Questions Guarantee GITMO.... Amerika Uber Alles!
First,
The terrorists HAD VALID PASSPORTS.
Thus, what exactly are passports protecting against?
Second, ANY government with its salt can and does
make fake passports for its agents. So I'd say
passports don't protect against foreign agents
either.
Thus the question becomes what exactly are passports good for? The only thing that comes to mind is the ability to track ordinary citizens.
Why is that necessary?
Service guarantees Citizenship! Questions Guarantee GITMO.... Amerika Uber Alles!
You forgot to say how far along China has come. If you commit a crime worthy of such punnishment, the military police schedule their mobile death-penalty caravan to kill you and the agents immediatly extract your valuable bodily organs to be sent to the nearest high-paying bidder for immediate transplant surgery.
China is a great comparrison of efficiency to "United States" (a federal corporation); here in the usA, the UNITED STATES of District of Columbia only has your body firebombed and burried after a coroner declares the civil death for any instruments pending performance by that Special body. Not to mention if you are ABC (American-born chinese), all that "tolerance" pep-talk from "Jane Fonda" gets your alot of love when you visit the verry nation she lies about.
In New York; the "State of New York" is a partner with New York Police Department by using FujiFilm sponsored surveilance blimps, armored New York Police Department covered trucks with roof-mounted acoustical sound cannons, and secret-police photographers capturing photographs behind NYPD man-barracades for (carnal, non-notary) misplaced-protesters.
The Yanks said it should be okay to get back in, which I eventually did at Niagra Falls.
Did you jump in a barrel, ride that sucker down river, and splash-down on the UNITED STATES of America side?? They don't call'em "Yanks" for nut'n.
We used to envy the "free world", where you don't cross borders even between "allied countries", with fear.
We really hated to arrived back from the West, it used to be so much more relaxing to arrive to the West.
We truly admired, that when going to West, we did not face soldiers with machine guns, dogs, nobody searched trough our packages, and pockets.
Then after the fall of Communism, my former "native land" joined the EU. It felt almost surreal to arrive to London, UK and instead of lining up together with Canadian passport holders, I just walked in with flashing the ID card from Hungary.
It's terrifying to see how the world seems to take a 180 degree turn: the USA resembles more and more to the old, hated Communist Empire.
Even the ideology to create this new police state is all too familiar: we have to protect ourselves from the "alien" enemy, which wants to destroy us.
Even by surrendering our freedoms to the state.
Do Americans realize, that Bush's famous "who is not with us, is against us" spin in his speech after 9/11 used to be a corner stone piece of the Communist ideology?
Do Americans realize, that the Fox network sounds more and more like the Communist state propaganda "press" used to sound like?
Do Americans realize, that the economies of the former Communist states were partly destroyed by the ever increasing cost of paranoid self-defence?
Do Americans realize what they loose when they subscribe to state sponzored fear?
I doubt it. For us, raised behind the iron curtain once upon a time, all this sounds way too familiar. We would laugh of this deja vu - if we didn't know it better.
I heard somewhere that if you lived in, say, Ontario and wanted to move to Quebec, you'd have submit an application form to get proper authorization to move there.
Am I wrong or this is a clear violation of paragraph 6.2?
The "Redundant" mod has been meta-modded "Unfair". Just so you know.