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Apple to 'Switch' to Windows?
JFlex writes "PC Mags writer John C. Dvorak discusses the idea that Apple may dump OS X and 'switch' to running Windows in a recent column: "The idea that Apple would ditch its own OS for Microsoft Windows came to me from Yakov Epstein, a professor of psychology at Rutgers University, who wrote to me convinced that the process had already begun. I was amused, but after mulling over various coincidences, I'm convinced he may be right. This would be the most phenomenal turnabout in the history of desktop computing.""
Wow, a "professor" observed these things, Dvorak? Of psychology, no less? He must be right!
Ok, let's see what you've got...
Epstein made four observations. The first was that the Apple Switch ad campaign was over, and nobody switched.
Um. Wow, okay.
First of all, the Switch campaign was just an ad campaign. Ad campaigns come and go. Even successful ones. (Think "Be all you can be" or "Dude, yer gettin' a Dell!" And yes, those were both very successful campaigns.)
Also, Apple marketshare, unit sales, profits, and revenues are at their highest ever, and growing at a faster rate than, for example, Dell.
So, point 1, wrong.
The second was that the iPod lost its FireWire connector because the PC world was the new target audience.
First of all, this is completely irrelevant to any discussion about whether or not Apple might switch operating systems, which is what I thought we were talking about. FireWire, or the lack of it, has zero to do with Windows. Additionally, since all DV and HDV cameras and decks have FireWire and require its use as the primary - and usually only - means of video transport, FireWire isn't going anywhere on Macs in general anytime soon. Further, since all Macs since the Power Mac G4 (AGP Graphics) support USB booting, and since all new Macs and PCs are universally guaranteed to have USB 2.0, going with USB on the iPod and eliminating additional support chipsets for things like FireWire - especially on a peripheral - seems prudent.
But I'm getting sidetracked by Dvorak, here, because the iPod not having FireWire is completely, utterly unrelated to any discussion about whether or not Apple might be switching to Windows.
Point 2, wrong. Actually, not even wrong...just utterly irrelevant.
Also, although the iPod was designed to get people to move to the Mac, this didn't happen.
Um, no. The iPod was designed to be a product that, you know, sold well. Which it, you know, did. Wildly so.
This whole "iPod was deisgned to sell Macs" business was a fantasy created by press and analysts who attribute that guess to Apple as if it were their sole intent. So we'll just ignore that the iPod is one of the most successful consumer products ever, and at the same time say it failed at some imaginary goal and purpose that there is no solid proof Apple ever created it for.
And on top of it all, most of the anecdotal evidence suggests that the "halo effect", as it were, actually works in some areas, at least marginally. To say nothing of the fact that, as I said before, Apple marketshare, unit sales, profits, and revenues are at their highest ever.
Point 3, wrong in both premise and substance.
And, of course, that Apple had switched to the Intel microprocessor.
Ahh, Dvorak must be feeling emboldened by his decade-plus of wrong predictions that Apple was on the verge of switching to Intel finally coming true.
There are many, many reasons Apple switched to Intel, all discussed ad nauseum elsewhere. "Switching to Windows" isn't one of them. Has Dvorak missed the amount of time, secrecy, and effort Apple has put into keeping it's options open for Mac OS X to run on alternate hardware platforms? Christ, Dvorak.
To say nothing of the fact that if Apple's secret purpose was to start a switch to Windows, you'd think they'd have at least made it possible to, oh, I don't know, RUN WINDOWS on the Intel-based Macs easily, which isn't possible at this time?
Point 4, wrong again. Well, at least Dvorak's consistent, if anything.
Dvorak is also actually missing the biggest play for Apple here: being able to run Windows and other x86 OSes in virtualization . That would be the holy grail for many academics, researchers, scientists, and other users, most of whom use Macs because they don't want to use Windows. With hardware partitio
Or is it only the ridiculous Dvorak articles that get posted on Slashdot?
John Dvorak == Waste of carbon and water molecules.
There should be a John Dvorak section so that you can ignore it.
Maybe next, MS will buy Apple.
Why in God's name? They can't get hardly the same hardware integration as they can with their native OS.
I think that guy's just messing with your head. Freaking psychologists...
I can't see this ever happening
If apple switched to Windows they would strictly be overpriced hardware.
Period.
Sure. Everything Mr Dvorak writes will come true.
never happened, never will. simple as that.
Dvorak is such a tool it amazes me... is he on drugs?
Yeah, now that Apple is using x86 chips, they're going to abandon the one main thing that sets them apart (aesthetics aside) from every other box maker out there. As usual, Dvorak is talking out his ass.
Want to give all of us some sort of shock treatment to see how bad we can react?
Nothing for you to see here, move along.
puh leez... Dvorak can't and never has been able to recognize the difference between his anal orifice and a hole in the ground.
why doesn't he just go hunting with Dick Cheney?
Microsoft to dump entire Windows line and concentrate on hardware sales.
Damn, this is some good LSD me and the Dvorak troll are on to; kaleidescope at 11!
This is the weirdest idea... the day Apple will be "mainstreamized" this way will be the death of Apple. all other hardware cost less.
Finally their computers would be worth using! Now if they only used off the shelf commodity parts - oh wait...
America to switch to the metric system and soccer is now America's favorite sport.
That said, I doubt they're doing this.
-- $SIGNATURE
Dvorak has to get off the halucinogens.
/.ing. Just move right along.
This article is not deserving of a
http://www.maxineudall.com/2010/02/should-economists-be-sued-for-malpractice.html
I'm about the furthest thing you can get from a Mac lover, but even I think there's no chance in hell. They were overpriced and underpowered even when they were at least unique on G4s. Now if they switched to Windows, there would be absolutely 0 reason to use them instead of buying a Dell, HP, or Gateway. The last thing any company ever wants is to compete in a commodity market, which is exactly what the Windows PC market is. Apple can't compete with Dell on price. It needs to keep its uniqueness, or its computer market is dead.
I still have more fans than freaks. WTF is wrong with you people?
They lose me as a customer, plain and simple. Their hardware is NOTHING without their own software to complement it. I'm sure I'm not alone in this, and Apple must know that. Apple currently has a niche market where they are able to charge more for basically the same product, because they can offer the all-in-one package the other vendors can't. They're making BANK from people like me who are loyal to the brand.
It's more than form-factor that moves Macintoshes. I hope Apple is smart enough to realize that.
I'll form my OWN solar system! With blackjack! And hookers!
I'm happy to hear Dvorak didn't just come up with yet another left-field brain fart prediction. This one would have destroyed what little 1980's reputation he has left.
Sure, Apple can switch to Windows. And they can lose 100% of their market share for PCs in the process. Why the hell would I buy an Apple box when I can get the EXACT same thing from Dell for $299? If Apple really were stupid enough to make this type of move, they'd be killing themselves. OSX is unique and is the reason people buy Apple boxes in the first place.
There's more to life than an iPod (Although I love mine).
- Just my $0.02, take with a grain of salt, your mileage may vary.
This would effectively remove any reason to buy a Mac. Won't happen unless Apple feels they can survive solely as a consumer-electronics company.
PC Magazine editor, John C. Dvorak, succumbs to his long battle with schizophrenia, posting meaningless and often confused articles on the aforementioned website.
Oh Please.
He is or he isn't. And in this case, he isn't.
useless sig advice - Read Nabokov.
This has got to be one of stupidest things I've heard in a while. Was Dvorak that desperate for material to fill his column?
http://slashdot.org/~tf23/journal
A quasi-point 5 of Dvorak's is that Apple may have been planning the switch to Windows when Gates was on the stage with Jobs after an investment. OVER SEVEN YEARS AGO.
That's pre-OS X release. That's only shortly after Jobs was in as interim CEO. Now that is keeping your options wide open.
I don't think so.
-- If an artist saw things as they truly are, they would cease to be an artist.
pulls out gun, shoots self in foot (if he were to do this) ... more likely:
Steve Jobs is laughing uncontrollably now after reading Dvorak's column.
Personally, I've always disliked the Mac look'n'feel, from the ugly Chicago fonts of old to the top-of-screen mighty morphin' menu.
But Mac OSX has always had something the PC hasn't -- stability. And that's because it's designed into the OS from the ground up. Windows has always felt like stability was "grafted in" somehow, and it's never been a comfortable fit.
Like most management, he gives no thought to stability or the correctness of the implementation. "As long as it's done, it's good enough." And it's that attitude that placed Windows exactly where it is, and why the Mac exists at all. It's not the "computer for the rest of us" -- it's the computer for the discerning crowd.
John
I think I can refute his argument. To wit:
Pffft!
must breathe...... cant stop laughing.
It's just that all of his articles are ridiculous these days...
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
In other news, Steve Jobs is going to wear shorts and a hawaiian shirt next Keynote. Steve Balmer is going to lose 100 lbs. Rob Glaser is going to lose 300lbs. Oh, and the color Blue decided it wants to be Red now.
Seriously, this article makes no sense. Dvorak is gasping at straws yet again.
It's either on the beat or off the beat, it's that easy.
I moderate therefore I rule!
--
Let me explain this to you: Dvorak is what's known in the industry as a "Yellow Journalist". Which is to say that he publishes sensationalist articles designed to elicit a reaction in his readership, despite having little to no facts to support his position. These authors are usually frowned upon by any publication with journalistic integrity. Since PC Magazine has none (and needs the readership), they continue to post his foaming-at-the-mouth drivel.
Every once in awhile, Dvorak manages to hit upon a sensationalist story that's true by pure accident. This then convinces his "fans" that he knows what he's talking about. People then latch onto that single instance of "being right" to accept his pathetically low rate of correct predictions.
Stop listening to this guy. Stop posting his articles. Ban PC Magazine for publishing this nonsense. Otherwise Slashdot becomes just as bad as Dvorak himself.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
must not be enough. Let's jump on the plug-nplay virus bandwagon?
I guess you could call it virus envy if it were to ever happen. I don't see it happening though...
I lost my sig...
There is the continuum from almost certain to highly unlikely. Then there is the continuum from highly unlikely to so improbable it wouldn't happen across the course of the creation and destruction of several universes. Dvorak's idea sits right at the far end of improbable that I highly doubt life in this universe will ever see it happen. But then again, one could draw a royal straight-flush twice in a row. Who knows?
That might finally stem some of the tide of people in Astronomy using Macs for everything... they'd then have to seriously consider Linux if they wanted something to be Unix-based.
It would also remove Apple as the "other" platform. Right now, if asked "do you only support Windows," most people will say, "Oh, yeah, we support Macs too, so we support everybody." With Mac down the tubes, there is another obvious "second" desktop platform.... (And, by support, I'm not so much interested in software as I am in Internet hookups, going places and being able to hook in my laptop to a display, etc.)
Too bad the whole thing is just one crack delusion.
-Rob
I didn't know John C. Dvorak smoked tons of Crack.
MadOgre.com
... I discuss the dangers of crack addiction.
These are his reasons?
The first was that the Apple Switch ad campaign was over, and nobody switched. The second was that the iPod lost its FireWire connector because the PC world was the new target audience. Also, although the iPod was designed to get people to move to the Mac, this didn't happen. And, of course, that Apple had switched to the Intel microprocessor.
crazy.
Apple switching to Windows would kill them. The only thing Apple ever had going for them (except style), is OSX is a damn good OS. By giving it up they'll die a quick death as they get absorbed into MS in the PC market.
I like muppets.
Apart from anything else, Microsoft wouldn't allow Apple to switch to Windows, they need a competitor and an ideas factory...
What did Steve Jobs have to say when John C. Dvorak asked him to confirm this?
Fudwatcher
davecb5620@gmail.com
Wrong answer.
1. This would be a boon to Linux and a bust for Apple. $x % of people want to be different, and Apple would no longer be different. Or different enough. The GUI is not even close, nor the functionality when comparing the two OSs.
2. OS/X is doing great because of the BSD roots, which benefits from Linux (and vice versa). More hardware makers are opening up their drivers. They have momentum already. And their stock price already reflects this.
3. If it was only about "cool" hardware, Alienware would be larger and Dell's decidedly unsexy hardware would make them another mid-sized company. Cool helps, but there is no shortage of "cool" Wintel boxes, just of buyers.
Sorry, but Dvorak must be jonesing for the hits only slashdot/digg can provide by putting out a story like this. Nothing to see, move along...
Tequila: It's not just for breakfast anymore!
I recently switched from windows to mac. OSX was the primary reason I switched, secondary being quality control/limited hardware sets promote stability and reliability.
I'm a windows developer by trade, I can't imagine going back. I cannot tell you how nice it is to go home to a computer that "just works", works intuitively, and elegantly after a long day FIGHTING with windows systems. Apple would lose a substantial portion of it's customer base and just become a novelty hardware dealer like alienware.
His key points here on how "no one switched/came over because of the ipod" are just wrong. It's true it wasn't a groundswell, but apple's PC marketshare is growing at about 19%. That's pretty fast, and it's better than it was a couple years back.
I believe I will steer people away of the Rutgers University Psychology Program as well.
The price is always right if someone else is paying.
like everyone else, when I want a Mac I buy a Mac when I want a PC I buy the cheapest 2 year old POS i can find
From PC Magazine: The only fly in the ointment will be the strategic difficulty of breaking the news to the fanatical users. Most were not initially pleased by the switch to Intel's architecture, and this will make them crazy.
Luckily, Apple has a master showman, Steve Jobs. He'll announce that now everything can run on a Mac. He'll say that the switch to Windows gives Apple the best of both worlds. He'll say this is not your daddy's Windows. He'll cajole and cajole, and still hear a few boos. But those will be the last boos he'll hear, for then the Mac will be mainstream. We will welcome the once-isolated Apple mavens, finally.
The idea is actually plausible; whether there's a shred of truth to it, only Bill Gates and Steve Jobs know. It would not surprise me that there would be some collusion between the two of them, given their long history and the twists and turns the PC industry has undergone.
It's unlikely, but even if true, I think that's a case for Jobs having lost his mind. He won't be able to convince Mac users that this is a good thing and this would lead to a revolt the likes of which has never been seen. Apple would plunge into an abyss while Apple users would covet their old boxes and find new and interesting ways to keep them running and upgrade them. If that were to occur, then the Apple phenomenon would indeed take on a cult-like status, and Steve Jobs would be a pariah.
GetOuttaMySpace - The Anti-Social Network
I'd like to see some of these cameras, since DV over USB isn't standardized and would be vendor-specific.
The proper transport for DV has always been FireWire, and the only transport for HDV is FIreWire.
Sure, you can *make* specialty drivers and software, and capabilities in the camera at the other end, that can let you transport data any way you wish...after all, it's just bits.
But DV and FireWire are intertwined, at least for proper, full quality DV transport, and it will be that way for quite some time.
What is this? What would Apple have if it 'dumped' OS X in favor of Windows? Ummm... iPod's and iTMS. Because sure as all get out, they wouldn't be successful at selling 'Designed for Microsoft Windows' hardware. That's where ALL OF THE OTHER PC COMPANIES ARE! And Apple, even though the ad campaign hasn't been run for YEARS, practices the motto 'Think Different'. Apple has it's own market that Windows based PC Manufactures have not been able to touch. They stand out of the crowd.
And, since when do we give much credence to a professor of psychology making probably the BIGGEST claim ever in the IT Industry. This idea is nothing compared to Microsoft dumping Windows for OS X. At least, Microsoft has other major markets like Office and Exchange.
BTW, I would LOVE to see a OS X version of Exchange. Then I could dump those crazy Windows Servers in favor of something I don't have to patch EVERY SINGLE MONTH WITH NUMEROUS FIXES!
You know that old expression: "Even a broken clock is right twice a day"? Just a reminder that there are 23 other hours in a day.
This type of article is typical for Dvorak. Throw out a crazy statement with no justification, add some flame-bait ("fanatical users", "crazy"), and sit back smirking. In fact, I feel like we just went through this sort of thing.
(Hey, even that old post mentioned a broken clock. I guess if you cross a broken clock with a broken record, you get Dvorak!)
Insert simplistic political, ideological, or personal proselytization here.
Story restated
John Dvorak continues to be the biggest idiot in the tech commentator business. He's been making stupid predictions since at least the '80s, and shows no sign of stopping now. Dvorak wishes he had 1/10th of Robert Cringely's wit and insight. We wish that Dvorak would start scorecarding himself the way that Cringely does, and give up so that he can do something else with his time.
Okay, the story summary goes: Apple and Jobs have recently spent multi-tens of millions developing an Intel version of their operating system so that they can use Intel chips. Soon, they will throw away all that development work, infrastructure work, and vendor relationship work and just use Windows, maybe putting a pretty little 'Mac-a-like' face on top of Windows, because, wait for it, because: Steve Jobs wants to be just like Dell and Compaq.
The ignorance beggars comprehension.
As a comparison, Robert Cringely's prediction: free versions of OS X 10.4/intel given away on bootable ipods so that windows users can try mac for free (once 10.5 comes out.)
devorak is a complete moron. I don't know why anyone would pay that dumb ass to write about technology maybe I can get a job I'm not qualified for... does anyone want to pay me to spout nonsense about high temperature plasma physics?
GM should adopt Honda. They could keep their classic look and feel by glueing plastic parts all over the interior. Japanese quality with American styling. Who wouldn't love that?
How else is Apple going to sell that expensive proprietary hardware, except with a shiny OS that you can't get anywhere else? OS X is the sole reason I plan to get a Mac as soon as I have the cash. (If anyone actually needs convincing of OS X's merits, I would be powerless to convince.)
Dvorak simply ignores this aspect of Apple's business.
--hm.
Absolutly the dumbest thing I have heard this decade.
Period -- I would laugh but this is Pathos not Comedy
Take all the karma that this article will burn and smoke it with some more DvorCrack
--Shaddup and support your local PBS station Plan for it
...then newspapers sure don't have to worry about competition from Slashdot.
The ability to turn off articles written by John Dvorak. The stuff he writes is just completely outrages beyond comprehension. What has Dvorak done that deserves his articles to front index news on Slashdot?
most if not all dvorak's ramblings are troll pieces, and that's no news to slashdot crew. why the posting then?
In other news, according to Gordon Shumway,Regius Professor of Divinity at Cambridge University, Iran may be converting to Judaism. Not convinced yet? Then read on. "It's true," says Shumway. Convinced now? Fine, be stubborn. Shumway went on to make four observations. The first was that Iran has tried to convert the world to Islam and failed. The seconds was that some other stuff happened. The third was blowing people up was designed to get people to convert and this didn't happen. And of course, that Arabs have switched to the Gaza Strip.
Though these points aren't a slam-dunk for Shumway's thesis, other observations support it. The theory explains several odd occurrences, including Iran's freak-out and violent reaction over cartoons featuring Mohammed that ran in newspapers around the world. Like, who cares? But if Islam's saber-rattling was done to scare the world-community into backing off so it wouldn't discover the "Abraham" stratagem, then the incident makes more sense.
"Huh-uh," you say? Well, try this on for size. "Uh-huh," says Shumway?
Convinced now?
I think John misses a point. The fact that people aren't moving in droves to OS X is not a failure of the switch campaign. I contend they simply went covert. iPods are making FAR more converts than the switch campaign. People are switching and it's happening at a decent clip, just not in droves. As someone has already said, Apple dropping their OS in favor of Windows would make Apple simply an iPod company. Their computer business would be gone. No one would have a reason to buy it. I think the revenue they're getting from iPods and iTunes is augmenting their computer business and creating a huge opportunity for them. The possibility that someone could dual-boot Windows is also going to provide a catalyst for a niche few to move over too. The bottom line is, why should they? They're making money now. LOTS of money.
ANY TIME, I see a question mark at the end of a Slashdot story, I know that the entire premise of the article is at best bogus. The Question Mark; it's a tell.
Luck favors the prepared, darling.
It's the sound of a million slashdot reader hearts breaking.
1. No more hardware headaches. Apple users will no longer have to worry about their peripherals not working with their machines. Just about every accessory has Windows drivers. Hardware compatibility problems are one reason why people are afraid to make "the switch."
2. No more software worries. Have you bought a bunch of expensive PC-only software? That makes the switch to Apple's new hardware even more expensive since you have to buy new software. This will make it so that users do not have to worry about Apple inhibiting their work (or play!).
3. Cutting the Mac OS X development budget will save a bunch of money and cause an increase in Apple's profit margin. Since the software is bundled with hardware, and they only sell updates for the OS, not clean installs, OS X drains a lot of money from the company without much in the way of tangible revenue.
4. Apple can now compete directly. Dell, HP, Gateway, and Toshiba will have to watch out now. Apple's cooler designs would surely get people lined up to buy their machines (even including Apple tax). The iPod is a perfect example of this. In a field of functional equals (MP3 players), the coolest, most stylish, most hyped product has a giant market share. Apple needs to make their computer product a functional equal with the rest, and that means changing operating system. This could lead to a significant increase in Apple's market share.
The bottom line is that Apple stands to make some great leaps forward by changning to Windows OS. They can remove the hardware/software incompatibility stigma from their brand, and they can launch into the mainstream computing market and see if they cannot repeat the iPod's success. I am not saying that Dvorak's analysis is correct, but it is worth seriously considering, especially for Apple shareholders.
Of course, since I am an avid Apple fanboy and a rabid Windows hater, I will be forced to kill myself or move to Tibet.
There's a huge difference.
Switching to the metric system would be smart.
Why that would be a bad idea? Well, Apple would lose its iDentity.
SCNR.
Fight hunger. Filet a politician and send him to a 3rd world country of your choice.
None of these are DV cameras. Oh, they may shoot digital video, but I'm talking about the actual DV spec. Typically in the consumer market this means MiniDV and I've never ever seen a MiniDV camera with no IEEE1394. That doesn't mean they don't exist but it's like, the whole fucking point.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
own? My guess 0. Apple is making money, and not just off of iPods. Not to mention they have significant cash reserves. So why on earth would they change something that is working for them in a niche market to enter a cut-throat, overcrowded, and very low margin market with a high rate of failure? Apple isn't like Dell, they cannot beat Dell at their own game, so they will stick with playing a different game....
Monstar L
One, maybe the main, reason Microsoft kept Apple alive was because it made Microsoft look less like a monopoly. Microsoft got into enough anti-trust trouble anyway. They need Apple to stay different. Mind you, the situation has changed because Linux is nearly viable competition and they couldn't kill it off even if they wanted (I hope).
Anybody remember a few years ago, when Apple was circling the bowl? Microsoft was being raked over the coals by DOJ for antitrust issues, remember? That's when Mr. Gates and Company pulled a rabbit out of their hat by investing in (bailing out) Apple. In one stroke, Mr. G. had diversified his portfolio while preserving the one (semi-)serious competitor in the Personal Computer market, thereby giving the DOJ a face-saving way to quietly let the whole thing go (don't believe me? Why aren't there three companies headquartered at the Microsoft campus right now?)!
Gates ain't gonna let Apple go Windoze - that'll land him right back in the hash with DOJ.
Gil Amelio got pretty far along in high-level talks with M$ about using NT as the future platform for the Mac. Apple engineers even met with M$ engineers to discuss the details of what that switch would entail. Luckily, Amelio ended up not doing this, and the rest is history.
A second correction to your point 2 rebuttal is that OS X has never supported USB booting. This is a common misconception (http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/2005/06/u sbharddrives/index.php). There is even a knowledge base article about it somewhere. Only the newest Intel-based machines will support USB booting (http://theory.isthereason.com/?p=724).
and a hack writer like Dvorak believes it.
Must be true then.
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My god, the man has gone off the deep end.
While Dvorak has always been the Rush Limbaugh of the PC world (they kinda look alike, too, huh?), he doesn't usually (AFAIK) engage in such wild off-base conjecture.
Why would Apple want to compete with those "stodgy Chinese makers"? Those makers are already putting those Macs together. Fanatical Mac users didn't like the switch to Intel? Really? I get the feeling most don't care what the chip is -- I know I don't; I'm even typing this on an Intel iMac.
Macs have a proprietary architecture? I didn't seem to matter two days ago when I installed a third-party SCSI controller, a third-party firewire card, and a gigabit Ethernet card (sorry, I don't remember where this one came from) in an old G4 to use as a server. And Tiger OS X Server used all the new hardware and just worked with it -- no third-party drivers needed.
For me -- an many others -- I use Macs in my IT business because it's by far the most cost effective solution. The things just work. If one burst into flames or got stolen (or whatever) I could just hop down to the nearest Mac reseller and be back working in an hour. Mail, browser, Unix, ssh, CVS, etc. -- it's all there and just works.
OTOH, if Apple did switch to Windows that would be a good incentive to switch to a Linux desktop...
And hence is shooting out outrageous fantasy articles like this to try to get lots of hits and emails to justify his pay.
The chances of Apple switching to Windows is the chance that Cheney will start becoming a nice guy - nil.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Now that they are on the Intel platform, if they switched to Windows, they would become just another Dell, HP/Compaq, etc. Also, all of their loyal customers and developers would probably just bail on them for doing so. Not a very good business plan.
DEAD DEAD DEAD DELETE ME
Between the recent "mac virus" news, and now this... I have this sick desire to scream "WHERE'S YOUR MESSIAH NOW!" at my roommate's iBook.
Bury me in mashed potatoes.
I will tell you the only thing that keeps me on a Windows PC are the games. If all titles were released equally on OSX and on Windows (or even best of both worlds, Linux), I would switch in a heartbeat.
Alas, I dual boot to Windows and Linux and just hope and pray for the day I can cut the cord to M$.
Seriously...this guy is the Christina Aguilerra of computer journalism.
It's a bit early yet isn't it? Is this just setup for a really good one on 4/1?
I'm completely absolutely convinced John C Dvorak might just be looking for controversy.
6E8C 8721 B3D9 5269 5A9B 1122 00C3 C03D 99A7 1CFC
Look, a Yakov and a Jackoff in the same story... Sometimes these things just write themselves...
Let's see, how to get into the headlines?
Claim Apple is switching to Windows!
Watch the geek world go crazy.
"The avalanch has already started, it is too late for the pebbles to vote." -Kosh
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=584 30
What's New to USB?
Beginning with the Power Mac G4 (AGP Graphics) and the iMac (Slot-Loading), two new features to USB are most apparent: support for USB audio devices and booting from USB drives.
Many a /.er are probably weeping at the thought of Apple dumping MacOS in favor of Windows.
Dry your eyes, dear friend, and listen to my tale.
How many people switched over to MacOS because they couldn't stand Windows, but wanted more than Linux has to offer?
After being used to MacOS for so long, how well do you think they'd adapt to Windows?
I believe that, should this happen (and, really, I don't see that), you'd get a mostly even three way split. One third would stick with MacOS as long as they could. One third would jump to Windows.
One third would jump to Linux.
Granted, the Mac user base isn't much larger than Linux's, but anything would help. If someone can create a GUI to put over a Linux Distro (maybe call it OrangeOS?) that acted much like the MacOS GUI, you'd be able to pull over a lot of users. Double bonus points if they can move without having to dump their hardware.
(Okay, that wasn't really a tale. But you're happy now, right?)
Since USB 2.0 and firewire are roughly (within an order of magnitude) comparable in performance, why would a product developer choose to use the far more expensive firewire chipset? Especially when that presents difficulties breaking into the low-end PC market, where firewire is far from ubiquitous? That's even the reason we assume the iPod went to USB, was to break into the PC market.
I think firewire is the Betamax of local connectivity. It may be technically superior, more convenient, [insert other advantages here] but it never had the industry backing of USB. Firewire will still hang around for a while because of the large amount of legacy video hardware using it, but it's only going to be present on higher-end PCs, kind of like a technologist's version of a VTEC sticker on a ricer. It's already a niche player, and the niche is growing smaller instead of larger.
John
"How Apple is going to Screw Up Again" ...if you didn't get it by now, Dvorak's only point is to get you to CLICK ON HIS ARTICLE. It really doesn't matter if he makes any sense or not, he just wants you to click on the article to increase his hits. Don't feed the trolls.
"OS X: The Worst Interface on Earth"
"The iPod's Coming Disaster"
"Why Linux will fail"
"Why AMD Sucks"
etc.
You can read a lot of his other work, as well as more information on this subject, on his web site at www.yakov.com. Hope this helps.
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
Yes. Dvorak, wrong again. Who would have thunk it. The guy has come to his pseudo-fame by making outlandish tech predictions for decades. He probably started out as a decent writer who couldn't set himself apart from the 94083094583094853098509834905 other tech writers out in the late 80s. Then he realized that if he started making counter-intuitive predictions that would take two sides of a polarized debate in technology and make them go into a flame war about it, people would read his stuff.
... Except stop paying attention.
This is his job we're talking about. He's not some sort of tech-prophet. He's a writer. He sells words, regardless of their truth and even more so, regardless of his belief in their truth. The more people read his stuff, the more influence he gets, the more his predictions carry any weight, the more money he makes.
If 2 billion people read Dvorak and all disagreed, he wouldn't care. He'd still get paid. As it stands, since all he is doing is predicting, he can't be wrong in the traditional sense, because he can simply say "Just you wait. You'll see!" And there's nothing we can do about it....
As an contractor for "orange" it is certainly possible but it's a very big *if* which I don't think will happen any time soon. Apple would be just another OEM in a market which is already far too crowded. Most users won't be willing to fork over any cash for the Apple brand because there would be no advantage to it over a white-box PC. Also, Apple wouldn't have any control over the Operating System and would have to rely on the same Microsoft-giant-that-moves-to-slow for fixes and new features. I will say that Apple's software market does have some gems not availabel to the Windows world but even if Apple managed to lock this software to Apple hardware from within Windows, they'd be shooting themselves in the foot by not giving their product to the enormous Windows marketplace. Regardless, even in Microsoft's embedded PDA market where companies tightly control hardware and software, we are seeing a lot of problems. What makes Apple think that they'll be able to this pull off? I think we'll see OSX on Dell machines before we see Windows on Apple machines.
An even stronger argument is comparing the iPod's loss of Firewire to the desktop loss of SCSI. If you remember, all old macs were SCSI only. Then the G3s came along, and they went IDE (standard config). Interfaces come and go. Products need contant review and revision to determine what will be most effective both in sales and performance. Apple's done this before, and they didn't switch to Windows then.
Apple's selling point is its strength of user experience, which extends beyond merely the GUI but also to ease of use of peripherals, aesthetic hardware design, everything. I think it's more likely that apple would work with a major manufacturer like Dell to design a version of Mac OS that runs on 3rd party hardware than apple adopting an insecure, buggy OS that degrades the user experience, regardless of how much eye candy you pop on top.
He predicted the Apple switch to Intel processors.
SSIA
The current Windows interface is something all users demand, no matter what they say about Microsoft or what they say about the pricetag, and Linux programmers have tried to meet that requirement by transforming the spartan UNIX environment into the closest possible emulation of Windows.
With the number of free software projects which strive to immitate Windows in every way except the price, it's a wonder more kids don't just run Windows.
Apple used to always insist that they had a superior OS and hardware platform.
Then they dropped the OS they had written in-house for one based on BSD, and they are abandoning Classic support.
And now they have dropped the PPC platform and gone to "what everyone else is using".
So do tell, what is it exactly that "sets Apple apart" now? Aside from the price tag, a particular style of GUI and the big logos on pretty cases?....
So they switch their OSX to x86 going through a ton of work only to come out and say we did this for nothing???
I'm tempted to dust off an old book of his telling how the future of computing was with OS/2 on the PowerPC. :)
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Apple, switch to Windows? I just pissed myself from laughing so hard. There is NO WAY Apple will EVER go Windows. To go Windows would decimate the entire Apple market, piss off every single macfan, and that would be the end of Apple. Wow, I'm not even a professor and it took only thirty seconds of rational thought to come up with that....
Dvorak, tell your professor to go get his degree in a computer-related field, not a mindfuck field, before he opens his mouth unnecessarily.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
You should be a sci-fi writer you nut job! Do you honestly believe Jobs would let himself get beat by Gates AGAIN?!?!
http://religiousfreaks.com/That guy dvorak probably has the job of his dreams. He gets to sit in his office and smoke crack while writing articles.
If people stop buying PC Mag, stop linking to his articles, and stop caring, Dvorak will go away. Then after a few deep breaths you will feel much better. Ahhh
whatever he is smoking, i want some of it. this is the most outlandish idea i have ever heard. apple doesn't just sell software, it doesn't just sell hardware. apple sells a package. the mac with OS X, the ipod with itunes. this won't change no matter how wet dvorak's dream may be. but the headline was a good chuckle.
Along with half the people on the planet. And with almost public knowlege of "Marklar", combined with the history of NeXT and the multi-platform heritage it brought.
;-)
His keyboard seems to have stormed the world, too!
"Speaking the Truth in times of universal deceit is a revolutionary act." -- George Orwell
and the world's design population -- not to mention the numerous software companies who feed their business -- have been _DYING_ for this to happen...
eric http://www.ericdfields.com/
Time flies like a banana !
this is his job folks.
look how well it worked, his site is now slag
He's been right on Apple going out of business so many times before. How could he be wrong this time?
-- haaz.
Epstein made four observations. The first was that the Apple Switch ad campaign was over, and nobody switched.
Really? Could have fooled me! Sure, they may have actually slapped the name "Switch Campaign" on that series of ads. But hasn't Apple been trying to get us to "switch" since that early 80's commercial where they throw a hammer through a screen (if I remember correctly)?? From that stand point this campaing has been going on for ever, and will continue under what ever name they give it next, be it "Think Different" or "Switch".
And I wouldn't say "nobody switched". Some people did, but that didn't change the fact that Apple is still a small segment of the market. I think Apple, and the people who use Macs, will be just fine continuing to exist in the niche they have always had. I don't see where there is ANY benefit to switching out their OS, OSX works great for their users needs and Windows would suck for them. Granted I don't use either, I prefer a totaly open platform in respect to both hardware (PC) and software (Linux/OSS). People use what works best for them, and in some cases that is the Mac running OSX. I don't see Mac users tolerating a switch to Windows by Apple, they all have the option to do this right now with out Apple but don't!! I don't see Mac users running out and buying PCs running Windows XP because they cannot use OSX for some reason...
This Dr Dvorak guy should stick to psychology and stop trying to play amature IT reporter...
Wrong again. OS X does not (at least until the Intel Macs came out) support USB booting. The article you're referring to is from pre-OS X days (circa 1999) when it was possible in OS 9.
Quit smoking that stuff, please. It's bad for your brain.
:) And I smoke.
Next news will be Microsoft switching to PowerPC, right??? Or Playstation 4 running OS/2. Whatever. Quit smoking.
Yes, yes, I'm a flamethrower
This is the single stupidest story I have ever seen posted on Slashdot. The reasons for its stupidity are overwhelming and well documented, so let me instead focus on the intensity of its stupidity. This article is so stupid, it could drown in a thimble of its own snot. It is so cataclysmically devoid of all but the most utter sensationalism that its significance is like a fetid pile of cat vomit. It is so skull crushingly mindless that it wouldn't even warrant a groan if presented strictly as a joke. The Onion wouldn't even run a story like this. The satire wouldn't be worth the titanic lead weight of its sheer imbecility. Not only should it not have been posted, but the proposed post should have been printed, taken outside in a somber and dignified manner, and shot repeatedly.
Is it news when Dvorak predicts Apple/MacOS dying?
Apple Rep #1: Dammit, Microsoft has taken our look and usability. Oh well, at least we can keep those pesky viruses off our OS. That's a good enough reason to stick with the system, dontcha think?
Apple Rep #2: Well...
It's just that all of his articles are ridiculous these days...
:P
That's not true, a psychology professor told me!
It is more likely that OSX will be re-positioned to compete with Windows head on, than jettisoned. Right now, Apple is saying that OSX will be designed to run just on their machines. Phooey. If the time is right, Apple will more likely lift that impediment and allow the rest of the PC world run OSX instead of Window$.
We all know that Unix isn't ready for the desktop.
Hey I'm not trolling, I just saying what anyone who hasn't used a Mac before, and only knows about UNIX as a command line OS, is thinking.
It wouldn't surprise me if Apple dumped OS X and went to Vista II or III. Because as the editor says, we might have scoffed at the Intel idea too. The thing holding Apple back from going with Windows is that they'd need a partnership to be able to write code for Windows at a lower level. For giving in to Bill's power, he might be willing to negotiate this to have absolute control over desktop OSes people pay for.
Saskboy's blog is good. 9 out of 10 dentists agree.
Not to mention, Apple wouldn't have spent thousands of hours creating a Universal Binary system, or made attempt after attempt to secure Mac OS X from being ported to a generic PC box.
This is perhaps the stupidest thing John Dvorak has wrote. He's like the Ann Coulter of the computer industry.
Anyway, Mac OS X and Microsoft Windows have very different user interface design philosophies. I find that when I use Mac OS X, I can do some tasks a lot faster because of the extra effort that Apple and the developers have to think out.
On Windows, I find that I have to go through extra steps in order to do something that would have taken me a few drag and clicks on a Mac OS X program.
Others have already pointed out that if Apple switched to Windows, it would become a commodity with low margins.
I am on the next rocket off this planet
The only things certain in war are Propaganda and Death. You can never be sure which is which though
"Proper?" That's pretty shortsighted thinking there. One addition to the USB standard combined with a software driver release et voila! USB 2.0 would suddenly be the digital video transport of choice. All accomplished with no hardware changes to the vast majority of consumers' computers.
Here's the conversation at Ritz Photo to imagine: "Sure, I could sell you this digicam with firewire, but you'll need to have a firewire card installed into your computer. I also have this digicam that comes with USB, which your PC already has."
I'm not talking about cinematographers or television studios, or even the "prosumers" here. I'm talking about the 90% of camcorder buyers, Joe Sixpack out there buying a camcorder so he can tell people he's recording Junior's birthday, but really intends to shoot himself and the missus knockin' uglies.
To make lots of money, you build your hardware to sell lots of units at Best Buy. Firewire doesn't entice Joe Sixpack -- to him, it's a computer-geeky negative; especially when there's a known alternative.
John
In a strangely related story a previously undisocvered species of elephant has been theorized to actually be roosting in a previously unimagined type of tree somewhere in an undoubtedly remote and possibly futuristic remote area of a vaugely real sounding country or continent.
In other news Ford and GM have merged. Now going my the name General Ford, the auto company is contracting out the production of vehicles and components to Toyota, Honda, and Xerox, while sales will be handled exclusively though WalMart and Macys. General Ford will retain its primary function of funding executives, ad agencies and union representatives.
cmon people.....
John Soward...University of Kentucky
Of course it may just be other companies jumping on the bandwagon but I'm afraid to say that some Sony's latest Vaio laptops offerings are far "sexier" and/or "cuter" (I feel ill just typing that) than the Intel/Mac MacBook Pro's.
;-D
e .jpgN otebooks/FJSeries/img_features_screen.jpg
It's the SW that sets them apart. Even I'll agree that XP is still pretty ugly nad not very clean. Having said that I can't get my head round the Mac interface either... Now, where's BASH gone
I mean... this
http://www.mobilemag.com/content/images/6469_larg
vs this
http://www.learningcenter.sony.us/images/article/
Do people (real people that is not hackers & geeks) even care about CPU's these days?
Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana.
They can just switch to Windows Vista Mac Edition or whatever as long as they open source OS X.
Surely this is exactly what Apple plans to do. I present to you the following:
http://www.apple.com/switch/
http://www.apple.com/intel/ads/
This is some brilliant reverse psychology on Apple's part.
Yes, OS X does not support USB booting on all configurations, but USB booting of OS X is actually possible on hardware other than Intel-based Macs. Also, the USB subsystems of all of these machines physically support USB booting, even if OS X does not on some hardware configurations.
In sum, it is correct that the machines support USB booting, period, and that OS X could functionally support USB booting on any machine whose hardware supports it.
This is standard operating procedure for Dvorak. A couple of times each year, he pushes the right buttons and gets the Mac crowd abuzz.
Yeah, I know... I can filter him out.
I know what the Internet is, what the hell is this Interweb business?!
this article is full of non-sequiturs. It shocks me that it even gets a spot light.
"The theory explains several odd occurrences, including Apple's freak-out and lawsuits over Macintosh gossip sites that ran stories about a musicians' breakout box"
How does it explain it? No it doesn't. Where is the logical jump? Apple sues because it wants to keep its upcoming products from hurting sales (and hype) of their current products. That's the most reasonable and simple (and thus probably correct) explanation.
"the iPod was designed to get people to move to the Mac, this didn't happen."
What? Hasn't apple been gaining market share non-stop due to the halo effect? Didn't they just pass Dell in the educational market not even a week ago?
"This switch to Windows may have originally been planned for this year and may partly explain why Adobe and other high-end apps were not ported to the Apple x86 platform when it was announced in January"
Yeah, that makes sense. Everybody is buying a new version of the OS that will, for once, require new versions of software. Adobe is going to ignore this great opportunity to sell a upgrades. Yeah. That makes sense. Not. Sounds more like they simply got blind sided by the news and haven't finished porting yet.
"Apple OS x86 could gravitate toward the PC rather than Windows toward the Mac, I have to be realistic. It boils down to the add-ons."
NO it doesn't. Microsoft is a software company, thus they don't build their own laptops or desktops. They focus on licensing out their OS. Apple is a hardware company that creates their own boxes and does not license their OS. Since Apple controls the hardware and software, they can gravitate toward the PCs, but Windows will never move to Macs, even if they wanted to. Macs are proprietary to Apple. What a garbage speculation.
"Apple has always said it was a hardware company, not a software company. Now with the cash cow iPod line, it can afford to drop expensive OS development and just make jazzy, high-margin Windows computers to finally get beyond that five-percent market share and compete directly with Dell, HP, and the stodgy Chinese makers."
Don't you mean Apple can finally afford to invest even more into their OS, bundle it even better with iPods and iTunes, and use the halo effect to grab an even larger market share away from Dell, HP and stodgy Chinese makers? So you're saying Apple will become Alienware PCs? Yeah, and we can see how dominant those guys are in the market.
"To preserve the Mac's slick cachet, there is no reason an executive software layer couldn't be fitted onto Windows to keep the Mac look and feel. Various tweaks could even improve the OS itself."
So Apple would be selling a windows skin? It would be slower, buggier, assumes MS would be okay with a complete rebranding of their OS (good luck!), and yet he expects them to be able to directly compete with the biggest PC sellers in the world despite this hinderance? Let's not forget MS won't be giving Apple any coding documentation on core inner workings of the OS. And Apple is going to somehow be able to fix the security vulnerabilities and bugs that native MS developers have been struggling for years to do. And what happens if a MS patch breaks one of the "upgrades" Apple made to the OS? And doesn't this directly contradict the quote about dropping "expensive OS development?"
Sometimes I can read speculation and think, "Hm, that IS interesting." But this time the complete lack of logical progression makes this "theory" worthless even to someone who'd want to believe it.
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pcmag.com is sticking with Windows, which is serving them so well:
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Too bad you're AC
--
Slowbad Don doesn't believe in moderation
Insightful? Really?
Microsoft invested $150 million in non-voting Apple stock. They have long since sold it all. $150 million.
At the time, Apple had cash on hand of around $1 billion. They were not making money, but they were a long fucking way from shutting down. Only those who weren't paying attention would call that a bailout.
The actual reason MS 'invested' was as part of a settlement of several lawsuits (going in both directions, if I remember correctly), related to - I think - Quicktime and illegal bundling of / anticompetitive practices regarding Windows Media.
Mac switches to Windows.
MS switch to Linux.
Then the 'linux community' switches to 'leet, cracked OS-X86.
my password really is 'stinkypants'
That article reads like fodder for conspiracy theorists. It presents four pieces of circumstantial evidence and concludes that based on those, Apple must be planning to switch to Windows. I suppose that could be a plausible scenario in a galaxy far, far away, but in modern, commodity driven computer industry here on Earth, I believe the explanation is far simpler.
Could it be that Apple management is simply being pragmatic, and accepting the fact x86 hardware is cheaper and advancing at faster rate, and that USB 2.0 simply removed any competetive advantage that Firewire might have had in the past, and is present on far more hardware than 1394 is? Naw, it can't be that... it must be that they're planning to dump their most cherished asset, one that sets them apart from the rest of the computer manufacturers, defines the core of Apple's product line, and keeps their customers in fold with nearly religious fervor. Yeah, that must be it!
Comming to a theater near you, Mel Gibson in "Conspiracy Theory II: Electric Boogaloo"
Windows Vista (which seems to have been easily ported to run on Macintels), will be a highly skinnable OS and integrate features for far more expressive UI then what OSX is capable of. Windows is basically building into its presentation layer a Flash like interface that will allow for animated and highly customized UI. With this presentation foundation, Apple could easily make Windows look good with fancy Apple widgets and even the OSX look and feel.
Think it crazy? Remember that Apple dropped its own proprietary OS in favour of a Unix derivative. OSX is simply Free BSD skinned by Apple. Also, Apple hasn't really done anything to prevent Windows from running on Macintels. It is very possible that if Apple sees a huge campaign of PC users buying Mac toys to run Windows on, why fight it?
Anyways, back to reality, I doubt Apple would give up that readily, but the points made in the article are truths that Mac diehards find hard to swallow. Whether Apple would want to continue to make their own OS, or possibly cave into Microsoft is yet to be seen, but Apple has to do something dramatic to get PC users to switch. NOTHING they have done to date has allowed them to grab more marketshare. Its the old "If you can't beat em, join em!" adage.
I haven't thought of anything clever to put here, but then again most of you haven't either.
Now with the x86 chips I think you will see the move to Windows but with Apple selling their own interface to run on top of Windows. The software also no longer be restricted to Apple hardware.
The benefit to users will be that they will have the best of both worlds being able to run MS business applications, PC gaming and MAC gui based applications.
OS X is miles ahead of OS 9, but the mach kernel has real performance issues. In short, it's terrible at handling concurrency.
... that OS X might run on Linux. I doubt Apple will want to GPL any of their code, so they'll probably try hard to maintain a clean separation between their eye candy and the OS kernel, but they could do it.
:)
I have no idea whether the problem is deep and profound, and therefore difficult or impossible to fix. Perhaps a few tweaks and the mach kernel will kick into gear. It's rather old though, so I doubt it.
Fortunately, the fact that OS X is basically a posix system means swapping out the kernel might not be that big a deal. Meaning
Should they do this, they would be king of the performance hill, for both workstations and servers. That's the plan. I'd like to see Apple sue an Anonymous Coward for leaking it...
None of the reasons he sited here really aren't as strong as-it is just easier to bundle Windows with Apple computers. Hell, Apple will just be another OEM like Dell and you won't even call them Macintoshes anymore. I don't think he understand Apple's overall market strategy. Look at all the applications Apple sells. Except for itunes and Quicktime, they have one unique feature-they work only on Mac OSX. For Apple, sales of software and hardware reinforce one another. Thus, it keeps both units profitable. Replace Mac OSX with Windows, Apple loses that synergy between the hardware and the software. Why a buy an Apple if you can just install Final Cut Pro on a Dell? Apple loses its distinction and can no longer justify higher priced systems.
You don't have to be smart to use a Mac, you just have to be smart enough to buy one
Apple could offer a choice for people that want to use Windows, of course, they would charge $50 more (or how much the Windows costs) and would direct any support questions to Microsoft. That's nothing bad in that, I'm sure there will be people interested to pay more for a shitty OS, but it's not my job to judge them, nor Apple's.
By the way, Apple doesn't lose money if Microsoft makes more money, if both Apple and Microsoft make more money they would do it.
Dvorak is called idiot by many people around, however I like that he judge things without preconceived ideas -- that's not a bad thing at all.
"It is our choices, Harry, that show what we truly are, far more than our abilities." -- Prof. Dumbledore
I've been using Linux for about 12 years now. It has never crashed or hung except when I've had a hardware failure. The only reason I should have to reboot is hardware failure, hardware replacement, power failure, moving the computer or replacing the kernel. When I upgrade my office suite, browser, database, web server, window manager, etc. that should never require a reboot. If it does, it's a bug in the OS. Is Windows that stable?
Until I heard him on the TWIT (this week in tech) podcast.
Now I thoroughly detest him.
TWIT - an acronym and a descriptor of the participants
He is off his meds. See this commentary here.
s -claims-apple-switching-to-windows/
http://www.tuaw.com/2006/02/16/dvorak-off-his-med
Tom-ni-bus: (noun) A collection of information housed in the head of Thomas.
The AP wire is reporting John C. Dvorak, age 62, is dead. He was found slumped over the toilet in his apartment by his long-time friend, Miss Kim. The apparent cause of death was crow in the airway.
He dredges up crap every six months or so in order to get clicks from the Mac Faithful to read his article. It's the same old schtick. This time I'd rather be ignorant than help fill his coffers.
bah.
And then George W. Bush will watch the Gay Cowboy Movie.
The only fact of this article is that Dvorak knows how to stir up publicity and churn up his own ad revenue.
Dude, USB2 does not have the sustained data rate needed for DV.
simply prove it with an Ipod. transfer via firewiare then again via usb2 usb2 sucks horribly compared to firewire.
Joe sixpack would be pissed if his camera was always dropping rames or simply stopping during a capture.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
cuz slashdot has become largely a troll site, duh.
I think he was actually talking to Yakov Smirnoff.
John...I keep TELLING you!! Puff Puff PASS..Puff Puff..PASS. It's not fair.
It's not a far fetched idea but I think the reasons are all wrong. If Apple was to switch to Windows it would be redefining itself as a software company. First we all know that the API is king. Apple has a great suite of products that all talk to Cocoa API and now Cocoa API is running on Intel too. Second, we all know that Cocoa can be separated from the OS as NeXT had it running on Solaris, HP, etc. So as soon as Apple has finished it's migration to Intel and all the major players like Adobe, etc, etc have moved over to Mac/Intel. Apple can just come out and tell the world that they are now releasing YellowBox (or whatever they called it back then) for Windows and/or Linux. And Steve would pronounce that Apple has just simplified development for Adobe, etc, as the same executable will run on Macintosh or Windows/Linux. Then if Mac OS X can't hold it's own ground they could always drop it as the OS is becoming free (Linux, Darwin, BSD) in the technology stack. But, more likely they would be betting that Mac OS X would still be the best platform to run your Cocoa applications.
evidence suggests no... Apple is a software company, regardless of what Apple claims to be... People buy apples for the awesome OS not just the pretty box. They ditch the OS and guess what they are... another Alien Computer system
The phrase "more better" is acceptable English. suck it grammar Nazis
'Nuff said? ;^D
This is the single dumbest thing I have heard in a long, long time.
We are all now dumber for having read it.
Apple lost their identity after they dumped the Power architecture. I say that because their product has become something that was always available, BSD on Intel... At least with the Power architecture the product was something that you couldn't piece together on your own. The only similar product would have been a power based machine with YellowDog Linux on it, in which case you would still have to buy the computer from Apple. Also you could buy a $20,000 RS6000 and put Linux on it to have a Power based "desktop" similar to the G5, but you wouldn't have many applications natively built on such a system.
When apple dumped IBM they basically tossed out what made them unique! Now you can build their product on your own by order a Dell and installing openBSD. You would have to live without ITunes but you could have open software clones of almost everything else that OSX has.
Oh man, where to begin. Let's ignore the four points, they're not his and garbage anyway. As for his personal analysis, well that's garbage too.
"But if Apple's saber-rattling was done to scare the community into backing off so it wouldn't discover the Windows stratagem, then the incident makes more sense."
What does rumors about a breakout music production box have to do with that? Hey Dvorak, there's rumors of a REAL video iPod...but BACK OFF, you might uncover their plan to switch over to Windows!
"This switch to Windows may have originally been planned for this year and may partly explain why Adobe and other high-end apps were not ported to the Apple x86 platform when it was announced in January." Yeah, Adobe is always first to have their apps completely ported. They had PPC support right away, and were the first with Altivec support. If Adobe hasn't updated their apps for OS X on Intel, then there must be a conspiracy.
"At Macworld, most observers said that these new Macs could indeed run Windows now."
And since then, it's been proven that it won't work out of the box. This has been pretty well known since Macworld, shouldn't Dvorak be a little more on top of things? Did he even attend Macworld, or did he ask the janitor emptying the garbage what looked neat?
"Another issue for Apple is that the Intel platform is wide open, unlike the closed proprietary system Apple once had full control over."
Where did Apple say they were going to support every piece of hardware, nowhere that I've seen. Hmmm, there's even restrictions in OS X to allow it to only run on sanctioned hardware (until it get's hacked). Looks like from OS X's commercial standpoint, they're still only need to support a closed system.
"As someone who believed that the Apple OS x86 could gravitate toward the PC rather than Windows toward the Mac, I have to be realistic. It boils down to the add-ons. Linux on the desktop never caught on because too many devices don't run on that OS. It takes only one favorite gizmo or program to stop a user from changing."
Oh where to begin. No one ever thought Windows would really run on a Mac, did they? What does that have to do with anything? Linux on the desktop, maybe it never caught on because it isn't installed in people computers when they got them. Maybe it's because there isn't a great consistent easy to use/configure/maintain/whatever desktop environment yet. Is there a point to these sentences?
"To preserve the Mac's slick cachet, there is no reason an executive software layer couldn't be fitted onto Windows to keep the Mac look and feel. Various tweaks could even improve the OS itself."
Right, let's skin Windows to look like OS X, that's useful. And I'm sure MS will give them all the code needed to tweak the OS. That's almost as funny as "Windows, as crappy as many believe it to be, actually thrives in this mishmash architecture."
Sure, I quoted half the article here, but only cuz I was too lazy to mock every single sentence.
Does this mean I can ask a Computer Science professor for an antidepressant prescription?
PCMagazine has crumpled under the load. Here's the Google cache link.
Do Google load balance individual servers? Let's see...
I think the opposite could be just as likely.
That is, that Apple might be looking toward letting others liscense their OS...
It won't happen anytime soon, but it is possible, and just about as probable as this bunch of crap about switching to Windows.
I guess if I had a degree in Psych people might believe me.
Oh, well, color *me* convinced! :-\
What we really need to a Windows compatability layer. You install a Windows app on a Mac OS X Intel box, and it just runs. Maybe even in Windows style windows. That's my prediction, and one of the hidden reasons, IMHO, that Apple switched to Intel uPs.
The info in the article sounds like it was picked and choosen. Even though macs have not even come close to denting windows total market share their sales have shot up. Their stock has done very well. They have a loyal following that keeps buying their products. Comparing them to IBM and their choice to move to linux is apples to oranges (not ment to be corny joke?). IBM's product line was being eroded by the many competitors out there doing exactly the same thing.
The good point made is apple says it is a hardware company, but has most of its success with clever software. The ipod success is mostly due to its ease of use and compatibility with itunes. OS-X is sold on its simplistic features. I am not overly excited about apples hardware choices and I think the audience they cater to does not really care. I think it would be much more likely that they make OS-X run on any intel platform than switch from a unix-like subsystem to windows. If they were to dircetly switch then they loose the hardware control anyway and they would then have to worry about microsoft copying their interface.
I have the "pleasure" of having three OS's on my desk right now and each has it pluses and minuses. From my perspective the only gain is to be able to use the development tools for microsoft like C#. There will also be a bigger software base but I am less convinced that that is really an issue amongst mac users. Now how I use my computers is rather specific so I would love to hear what others advandages there are to switching, from a technical standpoint not as a financial decision.
I have secretly hidden some mispelled words in this post. Can you find them?
So did my company. My parents-in-law just switched. My parents are just about to switch.
K.
If Apple tried to go all Windows there would be such a backlash that people would port every application possible to Darwin and/or Open Darwin. Far to many people love the Apple interface to just let it go.
You say things that offend me and I can deal with it. Can you?
I mean, just this weekend I sat down w/my Linux box and typed "apt-get install iLife." Sweet! Granted, I hadn't had much time to play with my box since I had been compiling the ProTools drivers for all of my audio hardware that runs under Linux. And don't even get me started on Photoshop, or my Debian version of World of Warcraft.
Oh, wait. None of those things are available on another Linux/BSD option? But Mac OS X does have support for the great security, stability and server features that come w/running a full-fledged UNIX-like operating system? Oh. Sounds like the best of both worlds. Maybe that's what sets them apart.
concrete5: a cms made for marketing, but strong enough for geeks.
If this is not the case, Dvorak is now verifiably stupid.
Dvorak is once again simply trying to create news and hype. This is simply illogical of Apple to do. Why would they waste all of these resources, especially helping developers create universal binaries.
Patience, these stories have a place and time, and it's 43 days from now.
"It takes many nails to build a crib, but one screw to fill it."
"John, could I buy some pot from you?"
Why would Apple go to Windows after they just stole FreeBSD?
devils advocate disclaimer aside, manufacturers PAY microsoft royalties for windows not vice-versa.
like MS is gonna PAY apple to include windows on a mac.
look behind this story and you will find MS. this is THEIR version of the "switch" campaign
And design a front end to Windows, rather than simply stamp its name on a box that would run Windows.
In other words, Apple could become a KDE like company, or even just develop a division that would make a GUI+, for lack of a better word.
You have to admit, that is different than Apple "switching," and rather intriguing.
Okay, this has got to be the most crackheaded story I've found on /., and that's saying a lot. Apple would lose 90% of its distinction if it moved to Windows. It will never happen. And dropping FireWire on the iPod as an indication? Hello? Moving to more standard components reduces price, and making a consumer device work with more than one operating system is hardly an indication that the other operating system is going to go away.
Please. This is just sensationalism. Move along; nothing to see here, folks.
I'm convinced he may be right.
...what a prediction.
The logic that they switched to Intel, so why not Windows lacks any business sense whatsoever.
They switched to Intel because it made business sense and aligned with their underlying value proposition as a company.
Becoming another WinTel vendor, however, is completely antithetical to their business model.
Their business model is based on differentiating the experiential components of computer use. The CPU is not a mechanism by which they can provide differentiation; the OS is. OS X is generally considered a better user experience than any Windows version.
Why on earth would they switch?
They would not. The fact is, Dvorak makes money off getting people to click to that stupid page, and he does it by saying stupid things. If he had the first clue about Apple, he might actually have had a correct prediction about the company in the past decade. How many times has he proclaimed the company dead?
The judge in the anti-trust case limited the "relevant market" to x86 machines. Meaning that Apple's existence or demise wouldn't have affected the ruling (and didn't affect the the appeal much either).
Jobs has said that accepting Microsoft's investment was largely a way to attract attention -- ANY attention -- at a time when Apple was largely being ignored. I'm sure Gates' reasonings had to do with ego... "bailing out" his rival.
"If Steve Jobs plays his cards right and delivers true paravirtualization, Apple may indeed double its market share." ..I'll be buying powerbooks from now on. It is indeed the holy grail for me in my situation.
Wow, can I have some of what he's smoking? Dvorak has seemed crazy before, but this is a new level.
Oops!!! Don't mod the last post up. Will find the right one.
Look at the top left of this page, under the logo. It says "Stuff that matters". You broke that rule with this man's words. Or something.
The $150 million was a SETTLEMENT for stuff that MS stole from Quicktime (and having developed SW in both Mac OS and Windows, I can attest to that... many of the data structures were just copied lock, stock and barrel from Quicktime) . And Apple did have BILLIONS in cash on hand at the time.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/1998/10/29/microsoft_ paid_apple_150m/
Wasn't the news last year that Apple was going to move OSX into the PC market to compete directly with Windows?
Now someone says they're going to move Windows into the Mac market to...what? Be *less* competitive?
OSX on a PC makes sense. Windows on a Mac doesn't. Apple hardware is still expensive, which means average home users and budget-conscious corporations aren't going to spring for a Windows Mac when they can get (what they perceive as) the same thing for less by buying Dell. OSX *isn't* Windows, and that's a selling point with a lot of people.
120 characters for a sig? That's bloody useless.
Why not sell osx for all PC's, I highly recommend OSX against viruses and spyware, I just wish they would release it for all PC's not just theirs .. Have companies make drivers, and roll it out. I would definitly switch.. I mean, OSX runs pretty fast on my friends 1.5Ghz Toshiba notebook .. 10 second bootup time is great! Much faster and nicer then Windows..
Apple would be stupid to drop OSX, unless it becomes free and open for all.
Let's not forget that Apple doesn't make money without both their hardware and their OS. People buy Mac hardware (where Apple makes their money) for the OS (on which Apple make no money) To make money at software, you must either: a) Sell a retarded amount of it like MS. The upfront cost of writing software is huge. The cost for the first copy is the entire development cost plus one blank cd. The cost for the second copy is the entire development cost plus 2 blank cd's. You see where this goes right? Sell enough and it costs you nothing per copy to make. However, to sell this much, you must either have huge marketing costs (now you're not making money any more) or a locked in market (like MS). b) Sell is to one person _for_ a retarded amount. Think custom IT solutions for someone like the military, or a company the size of Merril Lynch. Software is a weird business. Hardware is much more traditional in terms of the relationships of cost of production and sales. What all this means is that Apple uses the popularity and quality of the OS, which makes no money, to sell the hardware, which makes lots of money. That's the trade off. Apple abandoning the Mac OS would be economic suicide and CAN NEVER HAPPEN.. unless the laws of economics change.. which they can't.
Why even post this as news? I hate to whine, but I come to slashdot to get: "News for Nerds. Stuff that matters." In which way is an utterly stupid prediction by some random crackhead news? In which way does it matter? Even the first replies in TFA quickly summarize the fact that the guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
Slashdot used to be THE place I went to in order to get my daily dose of interesting news, interesting for a nerd that is. Back in the days it feels like I read almost every article linked to by slashdot, today there might be one or two posts per day that I actually feel it's worth paying attention to. I completely understand and accept the fact that what I find interesting might not always be interesting for other nerds and vice versa, but this just isn't news in any interpretation of the word.
I'm starting to hope there is some other equivalent site which actually posts relevant news.
Honestly, this isn't Digg. Slashdot is supposed to suppress trolling, but that's all this article is. OS X and its extensive software suites are Apple's competitive advantage, and the only reason for customers to pay more for hardware than they have to. Nobody could be so ignorant as to seriously suggest this, so he's only rattling our cages for more clicks to his site.
Sadly, I see just realized that this huge thread is in Slashdot's economic interest as well. Expect more of the same.
Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others. -Groucho Marx
besides all the other obviously correct posts. I think it is more apt that Mac OSX will be made available to otherwise boring Windows machines for the low price of $300 US. Your PC will have a virtual orgasm now that it is running OSX.
go hereo rders
http://www.steves-digicams.com/digvideo.html#camc
run down the list looking for USB and no mention of 1394
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
The most likely (and ultimately inevitable in my opinion) outcome would be Apple selling OSX boxed to run on non-apple hardware.
Because George W. Bush called off his DOJ attack dogs when he took office because he doesn't mind big businesses.
It's been clear for many years that Dvorak is little more than a troll, who the world somehow never stops feeding.
Just ignore the guy.
Internet Talks About Dvorak Again.
Come one, are we trained monkeys? Who gives a crap?
Or flings one?
Ipod went USB for one reason only: it's cheaper. When you want to hit a $99 price point and still have a decent margin, you don't start by using the most expensive of your possible engineering choices.
This comment is my opinion and does not represent an official position of Donald Trump or others I do not work for
Has Dvorak ever been right about anything?
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
This must be the same Dvorak who predicted people will switch from QWERTY to Dvorak keyboards.
They're being used to send out spam for "male enhancement" products. Why shouldn't they be running on a system produced by a company whose name is a synonym for small and limp ?
Come on Dvorak said it. Just ignore it.
Reading the article, and some comments that people have posted explaining why each point he has is wrong, I don't know why he even claims to be a tech writer when his comments are equivilant to those of local news anchors.
"LOL Apple switched to Intel chips and they is teh losing marketshare LOL they will switch to Windows, that will make their core market harpy!!11 ROFL!!11 and Teh switch to Intel means that Windows is on it. Cuse luinx dont run on teh intel iether!?!/111 DVORAK.ORG/BLOG DVORAK.ORG/BLOG DVORAK.ORG/BLOG!!!!!"
Comment removed based on user account deletion
It makes no sense to leave a profitable and comfortable niche and compete in an oversaturated Windows market. It especially makes no sense now that Apple is on an upswing and is being quite successful in increasing their market share and brand name recognition with iPod, selling their laptops to geeks and causal users. And Apple manages to appeal to them both: geeks get a shiny BSD system to play with, and casual users get a system that "just works".
I am no Apple fanboy. In fact I've never owned an Apple system in my life and never had any desire to own one. But if Apple keeps it up, I just might have to reconsider. If Apple could port their Cocoa shell to Linux and to offer a Linux based OS X, in addition to BSD based one, I will definitely switch, considering that their hardware is no longer lagging behind in performance. I may switch for some other reason as well -- for example, if for some reason Window has more Digital Restrictions Management (DRM) in it than OS X, and it really starts to step on my toes, then I will also switch.
Here's a link to the Coral Cache version. And page 2 of the article.
Sorry about that. But it did show that he was right about the switch to Intel. I think a lot of people said that wasn't likely.
01Apr is still a month and a half out, you insensitive clod!
This sig no verb.
Talk about a straw man argument. Wave the highly speculative evidence around like it's gospel until people would be crazy not to believe it!
His "facts" are wrong on many points. Viz:
As does Bill Gates's onscreen appearance during Apple's turnaround when Jobs was taking a pot of money from Microsoft.
Jobs didn't take a dime from MS, and neither did Apple. MS bought up $150 million worth of non-voting stock, which I believe they have since dumped (likely with huge profits for MS).
Oh, whatever, you all know the deal. Dvorak's a wanker.
"Molest me not with this pocket calculator stuff."
- Deep Thought
...unsatisfied by their small marketshare, the Pepsi Cola Corporation has discontinued their product line and has become a reseller of Coca-Cola.
English is easier said than done.
Are you talking about the "Thanks, Bill" moment in 1998 when MSFT announced Mac Office 98 + 5 years of continued support for the platform + an investment of about $200M of non-voting AAPL stock?
I believe that was partially due to a court settlement, but it was also a big PR stunt for both companies. It got the DOJ off of MSFT's back, it renewed faith in the Apple/Mac platform, and it was a hell of an advertisement for Mac Office 98 (believe it or not, MSFT makes good money from Mac Office).
Apple has *always* had a lot of money in the bank. $Billions ever since their IPO in the early 1980s. At their lowest point they still had over a billion dollars in cash in the bank. Compare this to Silicon Graphics who is now down to a few tens of millions in the bank, dwindling from about $500M about 5 years ago. Even if Apple would have continued bleeding money, they would have remained in business for a long time, even without this so-called MSFT bailout.
...that most Mac users thinks Windows sucks.
I would switch to Linux first.
As many have already noted, Dvorak is always wrong. Why do we still read his article? I haven't even wasted my time with this one! People, if you really want to know what will happen in the not-so-distant future, why not go check out Robert Cringley's articles? Waste your time reading the thoughts of someone who is actually often right!
Dvorak is in the business of selling magazines. He makes statements and writes columns like this just to cause controversy so that people buy the magazine. If people would let PC Mag know how much they dislike his "opinion" pieces, maybe they'd do something about it.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
That name is 'Troll'.
-- Too lazy to get a lower UID.
...that professor of psychology is doing a study. What is THE SINGLE BIGGEST heaping pile of bullshit people can be made to swallow if you follow it up with "but if you think about it this way...".
I'll bet he is studying the psychology of cult and conspiracy theory mentalities and he just suckered one of the biggest wannabe cult leaders and PC-conspiracy nuts out there -- Dvorak.
It looks like someone's PhD thesis is going to all but write itself.
-Charles
Learning HOW to think is more important than learning WHAT to think.
Arrrggh...Functionally capable does not mean supported. Some machines are functionally capable of SCSI and video input output too, but it is not supported in OS X. OS X is not what it COULD support, it is what it DOES support. So trust me when I say that USB booting for OS X is novel for the Intel-based machines.
You seem like the type of person that can't be wrong, so I'll go ahead and concede that your next rebuttal is dead on correct.
. . . so I can filter it out?
And on the same day Microsoft anounced a switch to OSX.
I've been one to defend Dvorak in the past, but this just takes the cake. That editorial has to be the biggest troll he's written yet.
I'm gonna be blunt, and let the moderators do as they will. Dvorak is a fucking moron. Let me repeat that for those that may be hard of hearing. DVORAK IS A FUCKING MORON. He's the Pat Robertson of the computer world, a veritable wellspring of idiocy, who, for reasons no mere mortal can explain, still gets media coverage, despite continually demonstrating just how off-the-nut and invalid his predictions and opinions are. You know, nobody talks about SCO any more. They have no credibility, and thus no one gives a shit. But we still sit around going "Dvorak said this, Dvorak predicts that" when he's been about as reliable as SCO.
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
They have the only BSD OS that's actually gaining market share? ;)
(ducks tomatoes from *BSD crowd)
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
Yes Dvorak can be full of sh**, and more often than not he is just that, full of sh**. However, he did predict Apple's move to Intel when everyone thought he was again full of sh**, and it did happen, eventually.
That being said, in this case there are a couple additional things to consider:
*developing/maintaining OS is a significant overhead for a company
*currently, even though the sales of computers in Apple generate a large portion of profits, they also amount to a large portion of expenditures (r & d, hardware, software etc.)
*if we compare the cost/performance ratio of iPod/iTunes business, this is really where Apple's bread and butter are
*recently, there have been a lot of rumors that Steve Jobs has gotten more and more disinterested in the Apple, especially around the time he was battling a cancer. This could be in part due to the fact that he is getting more and more involved with Pixar/Disney. See: this and this
*there are signs that OSX is increasingly becoming a mess (somewhat outdated but worth a look, although don't put too much weight into it: click here)
If we consider previous statements, dropping OS may actually free-up a significant portion of Apple's budget to do other things which appear to be more profitable and will definitely become more profitable as they become more dominant on other platforms. So, this does not seem so far-fetched, although I do admit that even I doubt this will happen anytime soon, if at all. On the other hand, whether you like hearing this or not, Microsoft in all likelihood hopes for Apple to stay independent as that is the last excuse they have to prevent the government from proclaiming them a monopoly (which they arguably already are).
I highly doubt that Apple would go down this road. Especially since the're sitting on a very solid and highly respected OS platform.
If anything, Apple would allow OS X to install on anything x86 before they would switch Macintosh to yet another Wintel reseller. Dell has already shown interest in OS X, and other Hardware Manufactures wouldn't be too far behind.
In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!
Microsoft may switch to the Linux kernel.
IBM might start selling hamburgers.
Yes, a lot of things "might" happen. However, Dvorak doesn't seem to have a very good track record. I hate these articles of pure conjecture.
Fire 2
Fire 3
Pick the one you like - I've got more!
Reading one of this guy's article is like feeding the trolls - he won't go away until we stop. So join me in a boycott of any of this guy's crap.
The largest downside to MS is that they have to support all the really good hardware out there as well as the really really really crappy stuff. This inhibits their options as far as making sucurity changes patches and all the rest. The only reason they survive is companies like Dell and HP put in the effort to make sure that their software runs well on their hardware. Apple is not trying to support the universe of hardware avaialble, just their own. This allows a more intergrated solution which could potentially have less problems for the user since they have the options to solve problems in either the hardware or software.
Apple is highly unlikely to give up what it considers its only competetive advantage.
Dovorak is a dummy and never listen to a psycologist about anything, especiall the computer industry.
...Dvorak is a jackass and so is the submitter. If you helped Dvorak get paid (i.e. RTFA) then you are probably a jackass too. Noone who has any sense wants to help Dvorak keep his job, but that's just what you all are doing by giving him so much attention.
:)
I, for one, shall never utter nor type his name again.
Join me.
. . .so I can filter out his crap.
Seriously though, I've never seen a Dvorak column posted to Slashdot that could have any use to anyone. That man is a waste of everyone's time.
Uh, you totally fail to understand how that conversation at Ritz Camera (or anyplace else) would go:
... I think my computer has that. That's good, right?"
Consumer: "How about that camera there? It's $499."
Salesperson: "Sure. It's not bad. But you have to be careful, it's USB."
C: "Oh
S: "USB is really for hooking up keyboards. If your computer isn't really fast, it'll drop frames, and suffer compression artifacts."
C: "Drop....frames?"
S: "It'll look bad."
C: "Oh. Well, that's not good. What else can I buy?"
S: "This one right here is only $699, and it comes with the card for your computer so you don't get dropped frames..."
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
I think I'm gonna start a website called "Moron-Quotes" or something like that. Then I can list all the stupid things that Dvorak, Cringely, Enderale, and their ilk spout, without links back to their sites. Maybe that would kill off the avertising bucks these jerks are obviously pulling in.
www.lucernesys.comHorizon: Calendar-based personal finance
Here is one hint, from Mr. Dvorak's own server, as to why OS diversity might be a good thing yet:
/article2/0,1895,1923151,00.asp, line 377
/ 0,1460,a=171069,00.asp' was not found.
Active Server Pages error 'ASP 0126'
Include file not found
The include file '/component/util_generate_article_discussion_info
Evan - needs to hit preview before submitting
So, they were B. Clinton's attack dogs when they started that fiasco? 'Splains a lot, doesn't it?
Let's go to the math:
USB 2.0 effective bandwidth: 320Mbps
Required bandwidth for DV: 59 Mbps
USB 2.0 bandwidth remaining: 261 Mbps
This isn't to say that transferring something over Firewire 800 isn't faster, just that USB is more than fast enough to handle DV capturing duties.
Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
The facts:
o NeXT was built by Jobs
o NeXT was sold to Apple
o OS X came from NeXT
o Apple was cofounded by Jobs
o Jobs envies BillyG
o Jobs loves getting the credit for everything, more or les. He's credited with the success of OS X. Uhm.
o Apple and MSFT are not exactly on friendly terms
o Most people exposed to Mac OS-X never look back
o Most people exposed to Windows get exposed to viruses and so much more and wish they could look back
o Apple has invested so much in building its OS and applications
o Apple funs would never EVER forgive the company if they would ever replace OS X for Windows
o [ Add yours here ]
The fiction:
o Apple will replace OS X with Windows
Technology ramblings : Simple is Beautiful
The only way Apple would put Windows on their boxen would be if Apple were getting entirely OUT of the PC business to focus on iPod, iPhone, iDildo etc. And of course that might happen. PCs are getting un-sexy, in fact are beginning to disappear entirely from peoples' thinking. These days a converstaion about something one your PC is more likely about something on the Internet you FOUND via your PC. Taken a step further, what happens when all your apps and data are belong to Google? Or 37signals, or some other combination of service providers? At some point your "PC" became a dumb connection to the Internet, maybe rented like a digital cable box, and the notion that it was "personal" or yours in any true sense just went away. Would Apple/Dell/Gateway/EtcBoxShop even *have* a business model for PC sales in that environment?
/.!
Frankly, I think that what's far more likely to happen is that Microsoft brings on the Linux kernal (or maybe Mach or even OSX) to power their real winner, the Office suite and email, on thin appliances over the Internet. They'll market it as the "xOffice" or something froofroo and will utterly fail to mention the OS under it.
And you heard it first here on
=^..^= all your rodent are belong to us
John Dvorak's worst attempt at generating hits on his site by trolling. Ever.
The U.S. Constitution needs to be ammended with a "separation of business and state" clause.
He must have gotten confused with Bill Gates wet dream.
"Of the world belongs to windows and no one else".
Well, folks, I have to tell you the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Around anno domini 1900, Czech composer Antonin Dvorak was a director in New York where he took liberty to write a symphony 'From the New World'.
When he returned to Europe, he left behind a love child. A son of his son went on to invent and promote the Dvorak keyboard around 1940. A grandson of this inventor has now advanced to the nuttiest in the genealogy (his own children are adult and normal in the meantime). Never mind, he is the most successful computer columnist ever. Since the early 80s, he has managed to take the feedback counter to tilt once or twice a year - recently, with mighty help from Slashdot.
Two years after Windows 3.1 was introduced, he was still peddling his pet theory that the feud IBM-Microsoft was nothing but a smokescreen and that the two apparent enemies had long agreed on how to go ahead with OS/2. It is now the turn for Apple to be in cahoots with Microsoft about convergence in the OS market.
Let's wait for John's next analysis where he will explain why Microsoft has agreed with Mark Shuttleworth to fold Windows and give way to Ubuntu.
Make wild, unfounded claims on scant, irrational chains of thought no would dare call "logic."
Publish it.
Get people talking about what a moron you are and how absurd your predictions are.
Collect your royalty fees and advertising revenue from all the page hits your absurdity got. In other words, Profit!
Here's my prediction: Underpants Gnomes to hire Dvorak as their new business consultant.
"Live Free or Die." Don't like it? Then keep out of the USA
Actually, switching to x86 forces all developers to write code that can be compiled under Xcode (and therefore strictly conforms to Cocoa standards).
Remember, Mac OS X is based on Nextstep/Openstep, which is partly why it was not THAT big of a deal to have OS X running on x86 this whole time.
When Apple first bought Next, there was a product called 'Openstep for Windows.' It was basically the whole Openstep framework, running on top of Windows. So you could write your Openstep code, and with a simple recompile it would run on a Windows machine, or any of the various machines running Nextstep.
So it isn't out of the question that Apple could switch to some sort of customized Windows with a rebadged Openstep for Windows running on top of it; and the recent switch to x86 would ensure that all Universal apps would be able to run on this version of Windows. Heck, if Apple is really clever, it might even be that you don't have to recompile your Universal Binary apps - they will just run as is.
All is Number -Pythagoras.
This is nothing more than the usual troll post - just that it's an article this time instead of a comment... nothing new here. charon
Are you sure you got that from a professor john or was it just.....nothing?
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/mh?s=AAPL
shows major corp holders down into 600k and mutual fund holders down into 189k
I don't recognize any microsoft names there.. (although it could be an entity subbing for microsoft)
every day http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Random
I am demonstrably stupider for having read that article. My time would have been better spent jamming a sharpened pencil in my ear.
Apple won't switch to Windows, not while Jobs is still at the helm.
Remember, years ago, Apple was developing a new OS, Copland (if I remember right), while being headed by Gil Amelio. Jobs was at NeXT, then. Then, Jobs comes back to Apple (billowing S-emblemed cape and all), ousts Amelio, throws out the bathwater AND the baby of the Copland project, and replaces it all with OS X, whose other parent besides BSD is NeXTStep.
So, replacing OS X with Windows would be tantamount to admitting that the heroic rescuscitation of Apple was, I dunno, not worth the effort or something.
Little Debian: America's #1 Snack Distro!
Quothe the article - "... Yakov Epstein, a professor of psychology at Rutgers University ..."
Didn't they mean Yakov Smirnof? "In Soviet Russia, operating system picks you!" or something like that
---- "Logoff! That cookie shit makes me nervous!" - A. Soprano
And you're asking me to accept 'The Register' as more authoritative than 'CNN'?
I don't want whatever you're smoking - it's done melted your brain!
So easily the dumbest slashdot story ever.
I mean, seriously, haven't you guys learned that Dvorak is just a useless turd of the industry yet?
110100 1101000 1101000 1100110 0 1101111 1101000 1100011 1
Another fact is how Apple have gained space on the server market which is in big part due to its software and the rest of products/services running on top of it (postfix/squid/apache), Apple now feels that their OS is secure and solid, and still functional for regular users, why would they want to switch to an OS know for problems they have "solved" now?? people will just not buy their machines.
There is also the fact that it is technically illegal to run MacOS on non-apple machines... if they switch os, what's the "legal" point of buying a mac??
I haven't seen a new computer without FireWire (or i.Link, or IEEE 1394) in about 4 years.
It really, really, really sucks, and I can't see how others don't see it the same way except that they've been brainwashed or have had their beliefs conditioned somehow.
;)
I've used PC's since the DOS days and Macs since December 1984. Except for games, almost everything that exists in the PC world (especially the operating systems) has sucked. The only thing that hasn't sucked so bad, is SQL Server and maybe Analysis Services, and Microsoft apparently bought that core technology from someone else (just like the core of WinXP nee Win2000 nee NT came from DEC or whatever).
I have had a few gripes with Macs over the years (INIT/CDEV micromanagement/instability in the OS 9 days, insistence on one-button mice, the Dock... file-security model inferior to modern NTFS) but always way more gripes with Windows (Registry- worst invention ever?? Everyone running in admin mode, needing to run all sorts of scanning software that robs a ton of computer performance, the fact that you have to "uninstall" stuff instead of just "throwing it out"... and sometimes it doesn't work, the way Windows makes you think it's done booting but it spends another 10 minutes loading those stupid goddamn tray apps, the way the Windows mouse has always flickered way more than the Mac mouse... even stupid shit like having to hit Alt-F4 to close a goddamn window instead of the Mac's Command-W), and don't get me started on the "how many config files do I have to edit with magic incantations to get this new app to install" PC *nix variants
OS X isn't goin anywhere.
Hmm, i wish he did.
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
Dvorak is a hack who shovels his ridiculous sh!t at our eyeballs to sell ads for his employers, particularly when Apple is involved. You might as well post Batboy articles as hard news in the science section, Taco.
Just because PC Mag has an idiotic idea about what is newsworthy does not mean you have to. There's a homeless guy always at the intersection 3 blocks down from me who might have something to say about computers even though he's likely not used one for a very long time if at all; And he'd probably be more accurate than Dvorak. Why don't you post HIS inane ramblings?
Huh? What are you talking about, almost every single camera on that page lists IEEE 1394.
The ones that don't have it listed probably almost all HAVE it, it's just such a standard feature that they don't bother giving it top billing anymore. It's practially assumed on anything that's MiniDV.
Many of them have, in addition to FireWire, USB connections, usually for downloading still pictures using proprietary software or drivers. It's what I would consider a completely useless feature, but it fills space on the outside of the box I guess, and apparently somebody thinks it's a good idea. I'm not sure whether you can actually download the full-quality DV stream through the USB port, but I doubt it. On the cameras I've used (mostly small Sonys) they have a built in DV-to-MPEG converter, and they put the MPEG stream out the USB port, so you can have pre-shrunk movies for email or webcam use.
Just as an example from that list, the Canon Optura 600 isn't listed as having IEEE1394 or FireWire, it just says USB 2.0. But if we go to the Amazon page for the same item, we read: "Otherwise known as Firewire or iLink, the Optura 600's IEEE 1394 DV Terminal is a high-speed digital interface that ensures virtually no loss of video or audio quality when transferring videos to a computer. Simply use a DV cable to connect the camcorder to your computer's DV Terminal and you can be sure that your favorite, recorded moments retain their pristine image and sound." Furthermore, in regards to the USB port: "Quickly transfer images from the Optura 600 to a computer with the USB 2.0 High Speed Terminal."
So basically, the USB capabilities on there are just fluff -- they're for transferring still photos that are taken onto the memory cards to your computer, and on the higher end cameras they'll sometimes do video. But the real video transport is FireWire/IEEE1394, and probably always will be for MiniDV. The whole 1394 system was designed as an interconnect for DV equipment, and I don't think you're going to get all the players in USB together and invent an alternative, with all the stuff that's already in existence.
The only exception I can think of are the DVD based camcorders down at the bottom of the page, which really aren't "DV" at all, they're MPEG2. And as you'll find out if you read some of the owner comments from people who've bought them, there isn't a particularly good way of getting the video into your PC anyway -- basically you have to rip it off the DVD.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
The Macintosh uses an experimental pointing device called a "mouse". There is no evidence that people want to use these things.
- John C. Dvorak, SF Examiner, Feb. 1984.
If Dvorak had half a brain, he'd still be suffering under a synapse deficit.
The Independent: Reverend Spooner Arrested in Friar Tuck Incident - ISIHAC, Historical Headlines
Be careful of jumping to conclusions.
That chart shows the Canon Optura 600 as having USB2 but does not mention 1394. One might assume that means it does not have 1394 support, and if I'm reading your reply correctly, you did assume that.
However, checking Canon's site shows that the Optura 600 does have 1394 support.
So, clearly, just because Steve's Digicams doesn't show 1394 support, that doesn't mean it's not there.
I'll leave checking the other cameras for you, but please rely on something a bit more accurate than that page, as it is demonstrably incomplete and inconsistent on feature lists.
USB is simply not useable for high bandwidth connections. While the burst speed (the number that everyone talks about) is higher than FireWire 400, the actual thoroput is much lower, and you cannot reserve bandwidth on the buss for an application. These two factors make USB of any form unusable for DV video.
The reason you don't find FireWire on many low end PC's is that it has not been a part of Intel's reference designs for motherboards, since Intel is not a member of the patent consortium that profits from FireWire. Now that Apple is a high-profile customer there is a chance this will change.
There really should be a C&C type of warning before posting such drivel. I was with Mr. Jobs when he first read this -- and he dutifully kicked the [C]at and spit a mouth full of [C]oke all over the keyboard.
My cat is not very happy at the moment and my qwerty keyboard is ruined. Figures.
The only reason I own a Apple is due to its Un*x core -- the Apple interface is only icing on the cake. If (and that is a BIG IF) Apple were to do something so stupid (Steve says, "NO") -- then it would be the last Mac I probably own; existing Mac's would, of course, be running Linux at that point and time.
Great point. Apple wouldn't be breaking the news to every software vendor out there that they have to (again) create new binaries for their apps. And don't forget Rosetta. That's not the kind of thing you can whip up spur-of-the-moment.
Han shot first.
I don't have to use his asinine keyboard layout.
Web 2.0 == Giant Blogspam Circle Jerk
USB 2.0 is *significantly* slower than Firewire 400 in practice and uses more CPU. That 480Mbit/s is theoretical.
There. Fixed that for you.
In my experience, Firewire 400 is as least twice, and sometimes as much as 3 times, as fast as USB 2.0.
Sit, Ubuntu, sit. Good dog.
Today, a psychologist has just confirmed that if you posit an outlandishly stupid to John Dvorak and give only the weakest of supporting arguments, he'll run with it, get it published, and it'll appear on Slashdot. This finding will be published in numerous reputable psychology journals.
Perhaps what he means is that Apple will release Cocoa support in Windows. Applications natively built for OS X, will look like OS X on Windows (which people seem to like for whatever reason), and that means more OS X apps since it you've got a great cross-platform toolkit at your disposal.
Seriously! This is from their home page today It's freaking me out!
-- Boycott Shell
in the past, people had to buy Apple hardware just to be able to properly run Apple software.
Now that this is no longer true, how long do you really think Apple will keep giving away all that great free software?
Big changes are afoot--not necessarily Apple going to Windows, but still I'd bet there are a number of things that will be done differently for Apple users in the next few years. And not for the better, as far as they are concerned....
Apple will drop their elegant OS for that ...??? Oh, no!
burst speed != throughput
He's "convinced" that they guy "may" be right. I've seen stronger positions in Jello.
why is this guy even a columnist over there..? hes almost always wrong, too general, and just plain clueless, i think ive read 1 article from him ever that actually had any sense to it, the one about MS getting into the 'computer protection' racket ;) and he was right too they've actually started it already.
We can only hope.
The key value-add for Apple has always been the tight integration of software and hardware within their product line.
They had that to a lesser degree with the Apple ][, tightened it up with Macintosh, and continue that tradition to this day (with the added benefit of extensibility afforded by X and BSD compatibility).
They are not going to throw that away.
On a side note, if I were to buy an Apple that would be the key reason - and no other. When I spend the $$$ on Apple, the expectation is it will just 'work' right out of the box, and that the interface will be a natural one. In fact I am considering getting my wife a Mac Mini to replace her Windows machine so I can finally rid my network of Microsoft (she is already using %100 FOSS applications on that box) and avoid having to troubleshoot heisenbugs in Windows.
Lodragan Draoidh
The more you explain it, the more I don't understand it. - Mark Twain
Holy shit, what next? "Apple to buy Commodore's IP: next MacBook to feature Genlock and an even Fatter Agnus"?
:-)
Bullshit like this would never get posted to Digg, right?
Dossy's Blog
When a child starts acting ridiculous, you ignore him. When an idiot professor makes idiot predictions, ignore him. Why is this tool getting press? Next time he predicts anything at all, we should just all look the other way.
ender-iii
USB2 does not have the sustained data rate needed for DV.
That's been my experience, too, but given the way consumers typically are, I think it's highly unliekly they'll take the time to inform themselves of the difference. It's much more likely they'll go with the easier solution and then just complain about how much it sucks.
They do it every day with Windows. What makes you think they'd do anything different with USB?
Sit, Ubuntu, sit. Good dog.
ok granted Steve Jobs has put his foot in his mouth before "We apologize for toasting the Pentium II in public." but why would he state clearly in his keynote address that he has positioned osx as the technology to run apple hardware for the next decade? Also, why would they hide the sourcecode if it is dead to them? This is just the wet-dream of a Microsoft culture, who would rather be fed introveneously by the Microsoft matrix of managed code, than to build their own _spoon_ construct.
What is that!? What the FUCK is that?! What IS that, Private Pyle?!
a...half-assed negative ad campaign funded by MSFT?
A HALF-ASSED negative ad campaign! How the FUCK did it get in here?!
i....looked to see if anyone switched, and they didn't?
And. They. Didn't.
One reason Windows can be so unreliable because of devices isn't because of certified drivers; it's because of uncertified drivers. Microsoft is trying to be permissive and allow the greatest amount of capability in the field without being in the way all the time just because the driver isn't certified. The use of certified drivers may be the exception these days, but in my experience they don't often have issues.
Now imagine if Apple went to a similar model where they sell the OS and not always the machine. The OS could possibly refuse to install on a machine for which certified drivers do not exist for all the devices. Or it could simply refuse to use those devices. In the end, the device could be attached and be 100% OK, but just not get used. Or maybe you can't buy OS X by itself, but you have to order it preinstalled on that shiny new laptop you buy from $VENDOR_OF_CHOICE. Then that vendor would have to certify all the drivers (or pay Apple to do it) and ensure that only supported configurations went out the door.
I really do think that if Apple wants to survive and even thrive in the long run that they need to move away from locked down hardware. I for one will not even give an Apple product a second look because of that. I won't do it. Not since the good 'ole Amiga days would I do it. I only did it then because I was dumb and didn't have as many options. Never. Again.
So, I definitely see a future for OS X on non-Apple hardware. But I can definitely see how it could work under much more controlled situations.
Please mod this post only if you think others should/n't read this. I have enough ego^H^H^Hkarma. Thanks!
Firewire is for those who want to do video. As a hobby or full-time basis. Using USB or USB2.0 for that is just Masochistic for that. I won't despise people for using USB, just pity them.
Your VCR/Betamax analogy is flawed - USB/Firewire is not a zero sum game with only one winner. There's room for both because they both fill a different niche. I wouldn't use (and can't find) a Firewire keyboard.
Your analogy would fit in better with the old IDE/SCSI debate of the 90s except Firewire is more ubiquitous.
High-end PCs? My Medion is over two years old and cost $800. Yet it has Firewire - two of them. Hardly top of the line. For a desktop, PC not to have Firewire, it must really be a cheapo Walmart model.
Dvorak and reality distortion...
Why am I imagining a rectangular, slighly curved khaki-green metal box with raised letters saying "This Side Towards Reality" proudly displayed on top of a filing cabinet behind his desk....
-- Terry
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I don't think so
I have used macs for a long time and really like them but what gets me the most is that mac al qaeda types will do everything to bash anyone with any type of criticism of macintosh. If this shows anything its that Mac ppl are still insecure about their platform. Grow up
Several friends of mine switched. They like the good engineering and the 'Just works' thing. They have jobs to do on the computer and can't be bothered with whacky programs, virus etc. Their iPods Just Work (TM), and then they look to the Mac for a similar stable computing experience. The 'Halo' effect is certainly working, and they would have nothing to gain by becoming just another Windows platform.
Dvorak is off a tangent again, but this time it's so obvious, it reveals his lack of insight and reflection for anyone to see. It's just embarrasing. Someone point him to this thread, please :)
I'm in a Unix state of mind.
OSX is part of what gets Macs out the door. Some of that is because OSX is what it is, and another portion is that it isn't Windows. Mac fans like their OS, and would be very vocal if it was eviscerated in such a moronic way. Steve knows this.
Apple's interface is so clean and intuitive that everyone else has been trying to copy it for years (yeah, I know, Xerox PARC blah blah blah), even though no one wants to admit to it.
Time to post this again:
Since OSX is built on BSD, it has both users and fans. If OSX were based on Windows... well, no sane person enjoys being a victim.
I think people are missing the fact that the interface would not have to go but run as a layer on top of Windows. Apple could market the interface to all users and no longer be limited by their own hardware.
Mac OS X is not just a "skin".
The UI is just one part of what makes Mac OS X enjoyable. People think of the UI because that's the part one sees in screenshots and messing around at the Apple Store for fifteen minutes.
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
Seems more likely that Microsoft would dump Windows once and for all and start porting all their shit to OS X.
Who knows, maybe there's some guru-like devision within Microsoft where they've secretly been making sure all their software has remained compatible with OS X?
This sounds less crazy to me than what Dvorak suggests!
-Matt
I dunno what Dvorak's been smoking but I hope he shares...
I swear his reality perception field is even stronger then Steve Jobs' reality distortion field.
--Yet Another Anti-Dvorak Ranter
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
Actually, switching to x86 forces all developers to write code that can be compiled under Xcode (and therefore strictly conforms to Cocoa standards).
Those two things are separate. You can have a Carbon app built under Xcode.
So it isn't out of the question that Apple could switch to some sort of customized Windows with a rebadged Openstep for Windows running on top of it
Yes it is. OpenStep is much different than today's Cocoa and related frameworks. Just ask the GNUstep folks.
- Scott
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas
Who said it was? I didn't quote you the burst speed, I quoted the effective sustained bandwidth as measured by current USB connected hard drives.
The total bandwidth of the bus is 480 Mbps. Had I used that number, you would have a somewhat more legitimate gripe, although it would be misleading. As it is, you've said nothing.
Slashdot - where whining about luck is the new way to make the world you want.
As one of Trotsky's fans once said: "It is proof of Trotsky's farsightedness that none of his predictions has yet come true."
(probably apocryphal, but who cares)
This guy is expressing his opinion. That DOES NOT mean that he should be modded Flamebait. That's what I get sick and tired of around here. You express your opinion and get shit-canned for it.
Slashdot has turned into a place for technophile sycophants who feed off of each other's narrow-minded nonsense. If I wanted to hear sycophants, I'd turn on Rush Limbaugh or Michael Savage. I prefer otherwise.
This is just the final step in their plan. Once they switch to Windows they don't need to write software anymore since there is already plenty of Windows software out there. And since they have now switched to Intel chips and there are already plenty of computer manufacturers that sell Intel based systems they don't have to make computers anymore.
After they sell off their iPod division they can call it quits just like Dell did: http://www.theonion.com/content/node/27850
I'm sure I can find an "expert" who is convinced that Apple is going to rewrite their OS in COBOL if I look long enough. What a waste of my brain cycles. Slashdot, why the hell do you post these stories.
Steve Jobs said the reason he came back to Apple was that he "didn't want to run Windows for the rest of my life."
... just keep cranking out PowerPC hardware until the middle of 2006 then ship Intel with Vista.
Why bother with Mac OS X for Intel in that case? Why wouldn't they just do the Intel shift along with a Vista release? In other words, if Apple were going to do this they would be shipping iMacs with Intel Core Duo and MS Windows Vista. There is no need to do Mac OS X for Intel at all
Not to mention, why bother solving all these really hard OS problems that Apple solved over the last few years just to go to MS Windows which still has all those problems and many more?
This is a poor article even for Dvorak. It's not even logical.
The link seems to be slashdotted already. Man, I can't way for slahdot to get slashdotted
i agree
This will never work. Windows doesn't work with only one mouse button, and the cost of retooling the mouse factories would just be too much.
Regardless, your sole personal opinion is certainly more authoritative than those of numerous professionals. Their MBA's cannot compare with your obvious nerditude, and since the subject includes the word 'computer', your opinion must trump all of those others.
I used to use Windows 2000 on my Athlon XP-based PC - and I mean just Windows; Firefox for Web, Thunderbird for Email, Notepad++ for editing, OpenOffice for word processing, Filezilla, Azureus, The GIMP...
I switched to Gentoo Linux when a Knoppix Live CD showed me that yes, there was sufficient driver support on my computer to do everything, aside from the soundstorm but I bought a new Audigy2 ZS. :)
I'd like to use a Mac more than just sometimes touching it on my Dad's iMac - which I pushed him to buy instead of a PC for the very reason that he doesn't know how to maintain a personal computer and I wasn't going to turn my full-time job into a 24/7 job because of my Dad's PC.
I like the look and feel of the hardware, specifically the Power Mac's and Powerbooks. I hope the MacBook Pro continues to have that simple, clean, "boxy" look. I hate the way PC laptops are all trying to look streamlined and aerodynamic. What's that for? More air when you hurl the bastard away because something else fucked up in Windows again?
I'd switch to Apple's hardware sooner, if it was just a smidge different - nVidia instead of ATI, 17" WUXGA instead of 17" WSXGA.
Can't really say I love OS X, but if I ignored my Linux experience for a moment, I'd say that Apple have certainly made an overall better OS with more bang for buck than Microsoft have.
I'd still cram Gentoo into my Apple notebook though. :)
His name is Robert Paulsen...
He said to me that was impossible, 8 moths ago, I switch for the mini, I liked it so much I bought an iMac code duo 2 weeks ago. A superior machine, difficult to compare these two world, it's like comparing "caviar" with jam.
April 1st already?
"But all your emitter and collector are belong to me!"
What a dumbass. First of all, he's about a month and a half early. (check the calendar)
He's basing this on the ideas of someone else who thinks that removing Firewire from iPods means anything about the operating system Apple will use, never mind that Windows supports FireWire just fine, it's just that PCs have been slow to adopt it. And Apple wants to switch to Windows because because they switched CPUs? You mean to one they had already been making sure for years that their own OS would run on? The one with a much faster update schedule than Microsoft could ever dream of?
Wow. He's one of the oldest and biggest trolls out there in the computer-related press, and he's still trolling. Remember, his target audience is PC Magazine, read by the kind of folks who don't want to believe that it's a mistake for them to still be using Windows. So he's just providing more comfort to them that mean ol' Apple won't take their tattered, filthy, stinking, virus-laden security blanket away. Hey, switch my keyboard already, I'm writing just like Dvorak!
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
...one of the most phenomenal trolling episodes in the history of desktop computing.
Apple's standard warranty is one year, not one month
Having shreded the keyboard of one PowerBook and dropped the other on a concrete floor (denting it, and busting the motherboard) and had both repaired for free (including a new case in the second instance) - even though I indicated I was happy to pay for repairs - and both on the default 12 month Apple Care (I've never yet purchased the extended cover - you'd think I'd would...) I have to say I'm really impressed and keeps me one happy Apple customer.
Your cable provider must view you as an uninformed tool. You do know by law they are required to provide
FW just for the asking? Then just get a Mac or a FW card and you can join modern society, that is of course after you finish watching the brain deadening entertainment they cal teevee.
I can't believe that. Dvorak is paid to be clueless. That's his profession!
Baloney. That may have been true in 2002 but not now. There are plenty of DV cameras that let you use either USB or IEEE 1394 (or FireWire(TM) if you must).
Since the vast, vast, vast majority of PCs have USB connectors and don't have 1394 connectors guess what people who own these cameras use? Vast. And since it's DV, the quality is exactly the same over the USB connection as the 1394 one. Perhaps it's not "proper" since it's not an open standard and required drivers. Some users would still be better off with 1394 for the short term since DV over USB isn't yet very well supported by Linux.
Perhaps you're confused with cameras a couple of generations ago that would capture low-resolution low-frame-rate video to an SD card which was transferred to PC via USB mass storage emulation.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
Besides, why would you want to invest in Apple hardware and then get it all grotty with Windows nonsense?
Please go to Betty Ford Clinic do not pass go do not collect $200.00
Software is and has been a part of Apple's brand since the beginning of time, and it also is for Microsoft. This decision is not even Apple's to make.
If you think Microsoft is going to private label a version of Windows for Apple, think again. If anyone could get a private label version of Windows, it would be Dell, and they can't get it. So certainly Apple could not.
This is my sig.
burst speed != throughput
You're right.
480Mbps != 320Mbps
As the GP stated, there's still plenty of bandwidth to play with.
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
The only reason I paid over $3K for a dual G5 with 23" flat panel (aside from the fact that I got a 15% discount from my Apple employee friend) is that it ran OSX. It's slower than many cheaper PCs yet the OS keeps me more productive and with almost no learning curve.
Had I not been sick of spending more time *fixing* my windows install on the previous dual Athlon system than I did actually using it to be productive, I would probably never have switched.
Without OSX I will never buy another apple computer, case closed.
digital artist, 3D animator, web designer, and otherwise technological creative type....
USB 2 has plenty of sustained bandwidth available for several simultaneous DV streams.
I think what you've just discovered through your experiment is that the iPod has crappy USB2 support. Not surprising, since Apple owns the FireWire brand (of the IEEE 1394 implementation) are you surprised they'd rather you used it instead of USB?
"Nine times out of ten, starting a fire is not the best way to solve the problem." - my wife
I mean, it sucks having all the extra free time while my cheap ass windows-using friends get to stay busy defragging their hard drives, running their virus scanners, and dealing with the generally unstable system. I am so bored. When can I get to be the cool computer user like them. My powerbook just works like it should all the time. I never get to spend entire evenings fixing problems. To use my computer all day, I actually need some kind of purpose. Please give me windows. pretty please
I read this far and realized it was pure sh!t spewing on my display...
Don't underestimate the power of The Source
I ended up selling 3 minis when i took mine to work for a day..
People just loved it. One so far has moved up to a G5..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I am now again a Windows user. Because the machine I am typing this on is a laptop I bough for 100€ from my former employer. I added a 25€ wireless card and some RAM I had lying around (actually RAM from the iBook). Yeah, a P-III 600MHz mobile with 512Meg RAM and 80Gig harddisk (bought for 100€) might not be much but I can't buy a iBook for it. Actualy, my iBook 600MHz felt slower than what I have now.
I have no reason to switch to Apple again. I was a Linux switcher before Apple, I think it is the cheaper and better way.
Ahhh...the great dumpster continuum. Many a free computer will be found there. -- sowth (748135)
Macs aren't Apple's core business and they should gradually get away from the costlier aspects of Macintosh production, like writing an OS.
If Apple licenses the Windows kernel and makes it look and feel like OS X I don't see why any normal user would notice. And Apple could get out of the expensive business of writing an OS.
As it stands OS X isn't much more than marketing material, giving Apple cover as a serious technology company. As far as earnings are concerned, iPods are the big items, and the development costs are quite small. Selling Macs is not really their core business anymore, and the portion of their business related to the Mac is less and less. Apple is likely to continue this as it aligns with Intel's consumer device technology roadmap. Phones, DVRs, Cameras or whatever. Being in the OS business just doesn't make sense as Apple's core business switches away from personal computers (aka Macs).
Writing an OS is an expensive business, and the value Apple adds is in the application software anyway. It's frankly stupid for them to continue writing their own OS. Windows is the only choice if they want to support DRM properly, which is a requirement for any company aligned with Disney.
I didn't RTFA, but perhaps he means that future implementations of the mac os will run windows programs. If that would be the case (and if they can still do it in a much more secure environment) then I believe sales of macs would explode.
Sample of Apple customer policies/problems I've run into:
I won't even begin to get into the illegal price fixing and racketeering against independent dealers.
Please help metamoderate.
We already know Dvorak writes stupid shit like this to drive traffic. Out of all the years he has headed back to the Apple trough when he's out of ideas, his prognostications have been right what, twice? For me, it's a better waste of my time to sit here pissing and moaning about it, than it is to add yet another /. referer on PCMag's web log.
Luke, help me take this mask off
Why aren't there three companies headquartered at the Microsoft campus right now?
Because the Bush Administration, which included a new DoJ, happened to come into power during the penalty phase of the trial. IIRC, he even publicly proclaimed his support for MS shortly before the election in at least one speech (using their buzzwords and propaganda, but without mentioning them directly by name).
Anyone who knows anything about marketing will tell you that you have two extremes:
...etc.).
...etc.).
...etc.) as well cheap no namers.
...
1. Commodity products that you sell a lot of at rock bottom prices, and make your money on volume (think no name PCs, computer parts, GM and Ford cars,
2. Expensive unique products that you sell a few of at high prices, and make your money on margin (think Rolex, Ferrari, Porsche, Apple Mac,
Think if an inverted bell curve with price and quantity as the axes, and you get the idea. The former is on the far left, the latter is on the far right.
The best place to be is closer to the left as possible, or closer to the right as possible. Being in the middle is the toughest spot.
Apple is already differentiated and sought after. By going Windows, they will lose a lot:
1. Their hardware will be expensive, while the user interface will be the same as one from Dell or a no name PC.
2. They lose revenue by giving a piece of every sale of a PC to their arch-rival Microsoft.
3. They become undifferentiated, and compete with well established PC vendors (Dell,
4. Their user base will be pissed off and will defect to cheaper PCs, since they lose the most unique part of the deal: OS X.
There is nothing going for this line of thinking. Or rather lack of thinking
2bits.com, Inc: Drupal, WordPress, and LAMP performance tuning.
But you realize some prefer jam over caviar. While others. like myself, prefer hot sauce (Linux).
Meh.
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Nuff said.
His article would have made much more sense if he posited that apple do away, not only with expensive OS development, but expensive computer development altogether. After all, why bother building high-margin computers (windows or otherwise) when you can build ultra-high-margin media players instead?
Not only that, but in the process you can now leverage your products to get into really lucrative markets: content delivery and content production!
I don't think that Apple could/should drop the hardware (I don't mean to infer that you were recommending it--I'm just reinforcing your point).
If they drop the hardware, then they have to start supporting junk hardware to increase their market... which is bad (too many external dependencies). Also, it would take all of their staff... They can't compete with MS unless they have a competitive advantage. With so many options of roughly equivalent hardware, it's easier and more profitable to compete on the OS vs. the hardware (Apple's old model competed on both).
I think that Apple could reasonably compete with MS if they would streamline their OS to just plain *haul ass* and use every available performance trick in their *heavily enforced* hardware configuration (e.g. the recent USB power consumption bug in Windows shouldn't matter to a Mac with the same hardware).
This is a good competitive advantage since M$ couldn't just stop supporting all those other drivers and hardware devices... I, for one, think that Apple's move to Intel was an important move for them to compete head-to-head with MS (in the OS market). Where they've moved to widely available hardware (ATI, etc) their parts should come down in price, and their margins should increase....
Really, it's a pretty (damn) good business model. I've never used an Apple/Mac, but I'm contemplating a mini (to address the inevitable "fanboy" argument)... Business-wise they're spot on.
Also, Apple marketshare, unit sales, profits, and revenues are at their highest ever
People often overestimate Apple's marketshare. Even at their peak, they were at less than 20%. My guess is that they will still have less than 5% of the personal computer market in 2006 (they were at less than 3% a couple of years ago).
This is so stupid. Must we continue to give this idiot so much attention?
This is crazy conspiracy logic, born on the grassy knoll. They're switching to Windows because the Switch campaign didn't work? If Apple give up its OS, it ceases to exist. Tell you what: if they ever do this, I'd buy two cheap Dells to run Linux and Windows on, and put my G5 in a glass case. Why pay the premium, why struggle with fewer options for almost every project, if you don't love the OS?
Nuff said. Taco - you're an idiot for putting this drivel up here.
The funniest part of TFA, for me, was when Dvorak invoked Apple's 5% market share. Obviously he's making the point that it's time for little Apple to grow up and go get the big market shares of Dell and HP.
The funny part is that Dell leads all computer manufacturers world wide with only about an 18% market share (in desktops). In fact in desktops Apple is the 9th largest computer maker in the world by desktop market share. In the U.S. they rank 5th (Dell is first with ~35% share).
It's not like Apple is some small fry. They are one of the 10 biggest computer makers in the world, and top 5 in the U.S. And this IS the proper way to rank them--against other computer manufacturers. It's stupid to rank Apple against Windows because it's apples (pun) and oranges. It's like ranking Mercedes against Delphi--they're at different layers in the industry.
Anyway there are many ways in which Dvorak is mis- or uninformed in that article. I just thought I'd point that one out. I agree with the parent--Apple is right where they want to be--big enough, but still commanding significant margins.
Build a man a fire, he's warm for one night. Set him on fire, and he's warm for the rest of his life.
I think they might actually be on to something. Apple could become a key Windows player within four years. Apple switching to Intel and keeping the same pricing structure will not benefit them. There are currently two operating system which have a user base large enough to support market percentage gains. Apple, however, will not move to Linux, but it might move to Windows.
If Apple were to sell Windows Vista notebooks their sales would climb significantly. The honest truth, is most people would not switch to OSX if you paid them too. Most companies will always run Windows and Apple could become an elite dealer of Windows compatible hardware.
The first step would be to make their hardware compatible with Windows. This would be followed by withdrawing OSX from the market. This is very possible.
In other news Toyota plans to offer a Prius with a 5-Liter Hemi V8 so users can get a little more well-earned power out of their vehicles.
From the summary:
"I'm convinced he may be right."
Most inconsequential sentence EVAR.
I think in a related story I saw that Yakov Epstein, son of Juan Epstein from Welcome Back Kotter, had proved that Dell is dumping Windows and moving entirely to FreeBSD (which isn't dead btw).
If it weren't for my horse, I never would have spent that year in college.
This too, will end.
Slightly off-topic, but in reply to your comment about VTEC... VTEC is far from the "betamax" of engine technologies. Au contrair. It's such a good technology that just about every manufacturer out there has their own branded versions of it now. Toyota uses VVT-i (Variable Valve Timing with "intelligence"), Mitsubishi uses MIVEC, BMW uses VANOS, Nissan uses VVL/CVTCS, Subaru uses AVCS, etc, etc. Bottom line, VTEC is NOT a "ricer" thing - it's a Honda name for what has become an industry standard technology. A better comparrison would be Firewire is to IEEE-1394 as VTEC is to VANOS is to VVT-i, etc. So, don't knock VTEC. It's why you're modern engine is quieter, smoother, more fuel efficient, and produces more power in a smaller size than the engines of yesterday.
If Apple switches over to Windows, why the hell would anyone buy an Apple ? They would become another Dell, except one with lots more deadweight and much less experience in the PC world.
Methinks Dvorak should get out of the spotlight and go hide in a lab somewhere before everyone figures out he's a loony. I've never touched a Mac in my life, yet I've been dying to play around with OSX ever since it came out. Heck, Vista is trying to emulate some of that look and feel YEARS after OSX did it on common graphics hardware. I'm not saying I'd use it as my main desktop because I do enjoy a casual game of NFS or GTA every now and then, but it's just too sexy to ignore.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
I said, what total and utter bollocks! (And I'll eat my Aug 2001 500Mhz Titanium PowerBook running OSX 10.4.5 if it happens.)
O'WONDERWe're working on it.
The simple formula is
Profit = Margin * Volume
You have to have at least one of the terms high
to get a high profit.
You could just not listen to or buy anything regarding Macintosh, the proven worst and most unstable operating system out there. Apple is a GUI for graphic artists and people who want things to look "extra pretty". Enough is enough... Tiger, OSX, blah blah blah. Simply boycott their "trendy" and non-functional products including the I-POD (which I may add has to be REPLACED when the battery no longer charges, WTF?!) and we will all be happy. Use Microsoft or use Linux (And no, the new Mac is NOT Unix based, at all. It copies the shell, nothing more).
Can Dvorak's articles be the basis for a drug posession warrant?
Both of the MiniDV cameras I have owned had both Firewire and USB2 ports. Both were capable of using USB2 to transfer video and control operation. One's USB camera control was a little buggy, but its video transfer was just fine. YMMV, of course.
+++ATH0
One or two applications do quit once in a while, but then I'm using a 2001 model powerbook that with only 384Meg RAM, but the OS never crashes, there are NO viruses and when an app does quit, the others remain active. The issues with the iPod are related to Apple company policy, which can be challenged in the courts. And probably little different to other companies. Apple just gets a lot of press focus, effecively drowning out the behaviour of other companies.
O'WONDERWe're working on it.
Where the fuck is my CHRP already?
Disclaimer: Link was down, so I didn't RTFA.
Ok, so the Apple gets Intel chips, and according to the article will switch to Windows?
Why, then, would anyone shell out the extra money for an Apple when they can buy a beige box PC for a fraction of the price?
If this is true, Apple has signed their own death warrant.
-R
OS/2 fell because of bad marketing and low sales in comparison to Microsoft Windows. Linux is used on IBM p5 line, but it is hardly replacing AIX. AIX is still IBM's flagship product for UNIX servers. No matter how much they support the Linux community, they don't sell Linux as the solution for UNIX servers, they sell AIX. Also, why would Apple compete with Dell, HP, etc... They have a pretty looking over priced PC now. Dell and the like can take some designers and make their own pretty looking PC cases and cram hardware into it just as well. If they dumped OS X, they would also likely dump the Mac. Which would leave them in one place, iPods.
One other thing to remember is that they have a small subset of hardware to support. Meaning their driver development and overall system support is limited to the small line they produce. He is arguaing like they would attempt to support all PC platforms which doesn't seem like it's in their plans.
They may eventually support MS Windows on it, but the only way to make a difference in their PC versus another is the OS. It reminds me a lot of BeOS. Fast, reliable, well coded OS, but support and lack of drivers for new hardware and costs overall killed it. Apple could still keep up, but who know if they will.
root 10956 5164 0 Oct 22 - 0:23 sendmail: rejecting connections: load average: 70 (isn't sendmail just too kind)
It's not April first yet ... this must just be a typo
Anybody remember a few years ago, when Apple was circling the bowl? Microsoft was being raked over the coals by DOJ for antitrust issues, remember? That's when Mr. Gates and Company pulled a rabbit out of their hat by investing in (bailing out) Apple. In one stroke, Mr. G. had diversified his portfolio while preserving the one (semi-)serious competitor in the Personal Computer market, thereby giving the DOJ a face-saving way to quietly let the whole thing go (don't believe me? Why aren't there three companies headquartered at the Microsoft campus right now?)!
AT that time, Apple had around four billion dollars in the bank. Microsoft's $150M was not small change, but it was a show of confidence and nothing more. You can't claim that they bailed out Apple without ignoring the fundamentals of business.
It doesn't matter how many people consider it a bail-out because it's so clear when you actually look at this that it wasn't. The numbers just don't stack up.
As for Bill Gates diversifying his portfolio - you're kidding, right? Around then he was worth sixty billion dollars. $150M is a tiny fraction of that. How is that diversifying?
Microsoft make a *lot* of money from Mac users. They want the OS X platform to succeed because they get lots of nice Office sales on it and it provides the appearance of competition without any real threat (this was important to them back in the anti-trust trial days).
"Apple is going switch to x86. Oh yeah, and Microsoft will switch to PowerPC at the same time!"
You'd have been entirely justified in laughing your ass off. And yet that's pretty much what has happened. (The PPC I'm talking about is the Xbox 360, of course.) Funny old world we live in.
Dvorak's totally full of crap on this one, however. I can sum it up in one sentence: Steve Jobs is a control freak. He'll let Apple's apps get ported to Windows, sure. That's like printing money. But he will not ever want to have his own personal computer, the one that sits on his desk, be beholden to Microsoft's bugs and crappy user experience. Jobs has been refining one version or another of his own personal OS for as long as he's been in the industry. As long as he lives, OSX will never die.
What I could see happening is this:
Rather than Apple switching entirely, it'd just sell Windows as an option. There is no strong business reason for Apple not to do this, so I suspect they might do it eventually.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
M. Dvorak,
You are smoking crack.
Sincerely,
S. Jobs
Dvorak is the Rush Limbaugh of the computer industry. He has made a career out of being controversial, and it doesn't really matter that he is almost always wrong, because he is an entertainer, not a pundit.
But even a stopped clock is on time once in a while. And in this case, he may be close. Of course, there is zero chance that Apple is actually switching to Windows. On the other hand, Apple could do almost the same thing by supporting Windows applications under OS X. At one stroke, the major advantage of Windows--its large software library would be eliminated.
Not only would it be a great strategic move for Apple, but it is hard to see how they could pass up developing such a product, if only because they could give it such a great name.
After all, who could resist a product called AppleWINE?
It's not Irony, it's ugly. Chances are, Mac users can't read the stupid flame.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
Dude, wtf are you talking about?
8 moths, FOR GREAT JUSTICE!
Send email from the afterlife! Write your e-will at Dead Man's Switch.
The technical arguments re: Apple being the better platform included RISC vs CISC. Though Jobs has ceded that argument, the Apple faithful did not object. I can definitely see Jobs switching to Windows with an exclusive Apple "theme". I can also see the flock aplaud the move of the almighty one. All technical issues (hw/sw) re: mac vs pcs are debatable.
When I watched a channel 9 video about XAML, it was mentioned that XAML would be supported on the Mac in a simplified format. This means that, in a few years, it'll be possible to write a Windows application that will run on OS/X.
No, I will not work for your startup
Seriously? These suggestions are completely incredible.
OS X is the major selling point of their computer products. They'd have to lock Steve Jobs in a bunker and sedate him to ever have this happen.
This post is obviously flamebait, and downright ridiculous.
How to I tell my slashdot settings to not display any article containing Dvorak? Anyone know?
Sit... Speak.... Shake.... Good Dog!
Stop listening to this guy. Stop posting his articles. Ban PC Magazine for publishing this nonsense. Otherwise Slashdot becomes just as bad as Dvorak himself.
/. staff "here, discuss this complete bullshit" is an affront, an outrage against anyone with a brain.
You are 100% correct, and I think the vast majority of Slashdot readers agrees with you (well, at least those with mod points do).
Question is, will Slashdot EVER stop posting this Dvorak crap? Don't get me wrong here: it's nice to have some controversial topic to debate now and then, but what this guy writes is
Being told by the
My other account has mod points.
Have you ever experienced this first hand? At least the telephone support. Sure, they SAY they only give 90 days of telephone support to non-Apple Care customers. But try it sometime, they always say something like, "if it's not something huge, I'll see what I can do." And usually they'll give me a good 15 minutes or so, which is phenominal... have you ever dealt with Dell?
Bullshit. My first PowerBook, I bought from a place that sold both Macs and PCs was one of the unfortunate 2% that, because of a faulty screen, could be pronounced DOA. The thing had been sitting in the store for over a month. The store clerk (not an apple dealer by default), went on and on about how great apple was about returned products. If Apple hadn't been, he probably would have tried to get me to buy a PC instead, or at least told me that they were having problems, since it would be HIS loss.
Okay, now this is ludicrus. I've never heard Apple say ANYTHING about upgrading existing orders, in fact, no company has ever had free upgrades for HARDWARE. Never-the-less, Apple has been known to do it on occation. My parents bought a MacMini a few months back, and Apple had secretly switched up a few, oh, hundred thousand orders with the newer generation, for free, without telling anyone. I saw an article about it, and sure enough, ours had twice the VRAM and a faster processor. Show me the part where Apple makes any claims about doing this on a regular basis. They will sometime do it if they upgrade the product line while you're order is being processing, sure, that makes sense. But after it ships, it's a done deal. I don't understand how you expect to hold any company to that. If done regularly, it's just a bad business practice.
And how is this Apple's fault? So the store clerk didn't live up to your expectations... although I probably would have done the same thing if it had I been in his shoes. Sure, I guess it would have been nice, had he gone the extra mile and actually tightened the bolts himself... wait, how is Apple to blame for this, again?
Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
I'd stick it in my Apple bong and smoke it all day long!
Multiplayer Gaming (defined): Sitting around, discussing single-player games with my friends, at the bar.
not only would moving to windows be financially disastrous for apple, it would be far from pragmatic. apple has spent many years now developing a new era of brand recognition -- from the ipod and itunes to the new intel macbook and imac, apple now in the business of making devices that are not only aesthetically pleasing, but functional.
in my opinion, apple is positioning themselves as the next consumer OS developer of the next generation. consumer discontentment with windows will reach all-time highs within the next 5-10 years with apple presenting a more secure, professional, and functional personal computing experience. they're already raking in on some government contracts, their hardware move gives their clients much more flexibility with the products they purchase. Consumers will finally have a choice on apple hardware; operating system freedom.
As apple's prices become more competitive due to contracts with intel and the others, apple products will become a lot more attractive to not only consumers, but to businesses and government organizations. Apple is placing themselves in the limelight, their os, their innovative finesse.
Computers have reached an age where power is marginal and most users don't truly need what has become the industry standard. windows is what's holding personal computing back -- the lack of innovation and continual milking of profit from millions of lines of obsolete code. Cars made in the 50's are still running today -- i highly doubt i'll ever see a 2000 vw jetta running around even 20 years from now. microsoft is that same 90's consumerism beast. I see microsoft eventually breaking down and producing third party applications within the next 20 years.... Microsoft has lost its drive -- competition will eventually crush the giant.
To summarize: You're a fscking liar. How pathetic.
And this is exactly the same attitude, almost word for word, actually, of what I got from the AppleStore employee. It's nice to know Apple cares so much about good customer service!
The CNN piece is an opinion piece, and factually incorrect.
9 7/msmacpr.mspx
7 002-1.html
. html
The first link above was by 'the Packet Rat' - not a great source, given that the author prefers anonymity.
The second uses a quote by a graphic artist as the only reference to Apple. Another opinion.
The third link is a tongue-in-cheek piece collating a bunch of 'death knell' reports printed about Apple over the years. Nothing to see there - Apple somehow survived despite the dire predictions of pundits across the industry.
Have a look at Apple's filings from NASDAQ, or find *real* news articles.
http://news.com.com/2100-1001-202143.html
"Analysts said that Microsoft's assurance of providing its latest applications on the Macintosh may be more important to the company's long-term viability than the $150 million investment."
http://www.microsoft.com/presspass/press/1997/aug
http://www.allbusiness.com/periodicals/article/65
As an aside, when Microsoft bought those shares, they were around $26. I think when they sold three years later they made a pretty good profit.
http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit19970814
Even Cringely doesn't get on board this bizarre "Microsoft Saved Apple" theory!
The facts don't fit your case, and the links you provide aren't solid enough to either. Microsoft didn't save Apple with their money. You could make a case that promising Office support saved Apple (and it's a much more solid case, to which I partially subscribe) but the money was irrelevant.
Better yet, try connecting an external hard drive via USB2...slow as heck. Sure, it is fast at first but then goes downhill from then. FireWire = FAST!
Stodgy Chinese makers!??! FYI - with the exception Toshiba and Sony (their high-end notebook models), everyone outsources to those "stodgy" Chinese (Taiwanese really) makers. Apple's PCs are made by Taiwanese firms like Inventec and Wistron (ipods - yep contracted out to a bunch of Taiwan firms, Inventec makes the video ipods).
In 2005, Quanta (Taiwan) supplied notebooks to every major vendor (Dell - 5,488K/units, HP - 3,457K/units, Toshiba - 731K/units, Acer - 3,243k/units, Lenovo - 267K/units, Fujitsu - 178k/units, Sony - 214k/units, NEC - 1,194k/units, Apple 1,265k/units)except Asustek. Asustek, aside from it's own models also does notebooks for Sony.
Who is is this guy who writes so trollishly?
DV video doesn't use isochronous mode so that part of your argument doesn't stand. USB2 is indeed slower than F400 but not by a great deal. In any event, DV video requires only a fraction of the bandwidth of either so USB2 is entirely suitable for it. Of course, USB2 didn't exist when Sony standardized on firewire. Remember, it was Sony that made firewire a standard, not Apple, and it was specifically for DV. If they were doing it today it would most definitely be USB2 instead and firewire wouldn't even exist.
Intel promised firewire integrated into it's desktop chipset but decommitted time after time. The reason was because there was no demand, not because of patent royalties. The percentage of desktop PC's that are equipped with firewire is small. Nearly all PC notebooks have it.
I don't think Alienware's hardware is "cool" anyway. Sci-fi themed crap is for little kids.
"Dvorak on acid" ... my fight again Kreusfeld-Jacob and Halzeimer"
... i don't know, this dude must go out in rave parties and somebody put something in his drink ... and no monday he writes something that is dedicated to hallucinations.
... it could kill your brain, dude. :))))))))))
or
"Dvorak takes a trip"
or
"Dvorak and the magic mushrooms"
or
"Dvorak in wonderland"
or
"Dvorak
Dvorak is such a good analyst in general but sometimes
Hey Dvorak, dude, you should not do so much shit when going out
Having discussed about it in forums on osx86project, it seems quite clear that Apple licensing its OS to other hardware makers like Dell for example is very unlikely, that Apple stopping making hardware to only sell Mac OS X on PC's is quite laughable, but Apple still making hardware and bundling it with Windows, that's by far the most ridiculous idea you could hear on the topic.
Apple dropping Mac OS X for Windows, hahahaha, YOU FOOL, do you even know what you're talking about?? Please enjoy the sight of your credibility falling like a rock.
You just got troll'd!
Nice way to use them moderator points! Woo-hoo!
-- Boycott Shell
"Firewire" is trademarked to Apple. Maybe you should re-evaulate your opinion regarding who
made IEEE 1394 what it is. You are talking out of your ass.
You're right. What salesperson wouldn't try to push a consumer towards a more expensive product? He doesn't care that it's an inferior product if he's getting a commision. Plus he might be able to sell service since more than 95% of all people don't have the first clue about how to install a "card" in their computer. And of course it wouldn't be a real salesperson if he wasn't sprouting bullshit constantly.
If dvorack sold what he's smoking, he could retire with billions in the bank and stop annoying the world. I mean come on, that's some super duper weed he is hogging.
Everyone gets so emotional about this. It is simply irrelevant what you all feel or want. The question is, could it make business sense?
Maybe. It is clear that an awful lot of people want to run Windows on their Mac designer hardware. You may not want to, you may think its a horrible idea, but they have dollars too, and they want to.
So, find a way to sell it to them. Get a good margin on it of course. Might be a way of growing the hardware business.
It might also be a better business than the other obvious one, selling the OS separately. You would have big support problems with that.
The easiest way might be to cut your hardware business loose and let it package whatever it wants with its hardware. It probably would package Windows, as well as X. Then you could turn your software division loose, and pretty soon you would have iLife for Windows. Why not if it makes money?
The thing to remember is Filemaker. Went to Windows, and never looked back. Its the volume that counts.
But you have to stop being so emotional and so personal about it, to think clearly about it.
Apple dumping OSX? Impossible! Just as unlikley as Apple dumping the PowerPC for Intel.
If you Yakov too much, you go crazy!!!!!
Yakov Epstein (http://www.inciid.org/index.php?page=epstein)
* used to be an adjunct Associate Professor in the Department of Psychiatry at the University of Medicine and Dentistry of New Jersey (shrink or nutjob?)
* but now seems to be in the Math, Science & Computer Education faculty at Rutgers (odd career switch)
* is an infertility counselor (is that how Dvorak met him?)
* is the author of a rather scarey-sounding book called "Getting Pregnant When You Thought You Couldn't"
* and is an expert in the use of mental imagery techniques (substance assisted?)
Sorry....John, John, John....
AIX is not and has not een dropped by IBM. It MAY happen over time, but AIX has infintely MORE support for Enterprise level stuff then Linux. IBM has HACMP which is better then any failover solution you can do on top of Linux. IBM dropped Linux? News to them! Oh sure, I DO see AIX loosing out eventually but it's going to take many YEARS for this to happen. Once Linux supports alot of the high end stuff that AIX already supports, IBM has no reason to develop AIX anymore.
Apple dropping OSX for Windows....shyeah as if. I ain't going to say much more about that because even Leo Laporte told John he's full of it.
Gorkman
which are portable hard drives and cannot -- CANNOT -- sustain r/w speeds coming anywhere near capable of capping out either or causing a significant CPU hit with USB. firewire is FAR overkill for most portable drives, let alone an ipod.
I agree with John C. Dvorak. I know a lot of
people dislike him, but I agree.
Apple Macs are going to end up as Windows PC's
with Mac emulation on them or Mac universal
binaries that run on windows.
There are tons of reasons why this will happen
and many of you can write books on why this
is very possible.
A windows compatibility layer ala Wine will likely come out of Apple fairly soon. Dvorak's twisted vision is close, but a little off in this case.
;)
Apple would not survive a move to Windows. It's users would never make the move. If Dvorak really thinks this will happen he's seriously out to lunch as Mac users are fundamentally different beasts than Windows users. Apple users tend to be very tied to their machines, and won't give up the ghost as easily as the OS/2 crowd did.
Besides, Mac users tend to actually have souls.
GJC
Gregory Casamento
## Chief Maintainer for GNUstep
I think the most likely option here is apple releasing OSX for x86 pc's
How come this guy can't even tell the difference between the Mac OS X and Windows systems, and is so naive can write columns on a popular magazine?
... swapping every RAM in the RAM slots, reinstall all the drivers ever installed, or even the whole Windows system, and there gone my client's meeting
To preserve the Mac's slick cachet, there is no reason an executive software layer couldn't be fitted onto Windows to keep the Mac look and feel.
What about the executive software layer that is beneath the "Windows"? Anyone? How about you, Darwin?
By maintaining its own OS, Apple would have to suffer endless complaints about peripherals that don't work.
Better than a blue screen followed by a weekend to reinstall everything from scratch on the d**n system...and there is no complaints, just no way to
It takes only one favorite gizmo or program to stop a user from changing.
and it takes only one favorite gizmo or program to start a user from changing
Slashot readers discuss the idea that John C. Dvorak may be mentally retarded in a recent story: "The idea that John somehow became an IT journalist through sheer luck came to me from Yakov Epstein, a professor of psychology at Rutgers University, who wrote to me convinced that the man was a fruity fruit loop. I was amused, but after mulling over various coincidences, I'm convinced he may be out of his fucking mind. This would be the most phenomenal acheivement in the history of computing science."
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
Did Rutgers University put its mental ward through some sort of "Patients to Profs" plan or something? Besides, what qualifies a psychology professor to make these economic statements. Is he saying that Apples have Windows envy or something? This is utterly ridiculous. Suggesting that Apple will introduce support for Windoze apps is one thing. That for them would be strategically optimal. But they will not implement a new OS, especially one so far inferior to its current product. Besides, going with Windoze would destroy their ability to profit; software makes the doh, not the hardware (although Apple seems to be approaching that from an opposite angle).
that's the stupidest thing i've heard in a while. i'm sure the above posts i haven't bothered to read say something similar, but the appeal of the mac is far beyond the hardware look.. it is the simplicity of the user interface coupled with the power and flexibility of a unix backend. mac does apps right.. not perfect, and more than a few times they have pissed me off by stupid interface changes, but all in all way ahead of windows.
that said, the move to intel is a strange move, and who knows what repercussions it will bring.
The investment served a higher purpose, not directly monetary and cannot be characterized as a bail out in any sense. It's actual purpose was to demonstrate a vote of confidence in Apple's future, and cement the agreement between the companies whereby the rights to certain patents were exchanged, expensive legal battles over those suits were dropped, and Microsoft pledged to continue to develop Office for Mac for five years.
Apple knew they had a PR problem with their user base, and more importantly with the community of financial analysts. I think the investment was made so that these two groups would take the deal seriously. The amount of money involved had to be psychologically interesting to both of these groups, so it had to be fairly large, but it was not a bail out. If Apple was close to circling the drain it was due to exhaustion of intellectual capital, not cash, and that problem was self correctly once Steve Jobs returned to the helm (he is a magnet for top talent.)
Remember, Microsoft has spent a lot of cash the last several years buying their way out of the problems of a convicted monopolist. Apple's price was a heck of a lot lower than Sun's price, for example.
Apple didn't need the cash. There was no bailout. The truth is more interesting.
If you mod me down, I shall become more powerful than you could possibly imagine.
I am preaching to the choir, I know. I generally like Dvorak and agree with him on some things - but he is no Robert X. Cringely. He's basically saying "maybe Apple would switch to Windows so that they don't have to support all of those devices directly." Like this has been an issue--a large chunk of all currently manufactured perhiperals do in fact run well under OS X. The development tools for making OS X drivers are there - and are free. It's not brain surgery or rocket science--and with one way to deliver them (unlike the myriad complex ways to deliver Linux drivers) vendors are more likely to produce these drivers.
But there is no real other reason given for Apple wanting to switch to Windows. Most likely, Apple will make some sort of emulation layer (Rosetta?) that runs Windows applications side-by-side OS X apps. OS X is cool and shiny, yes, but its development model allows people to create software that is difficult or impossible to do in Windows. Apple already doesn't have to do "much" on the underpinnings of OS X (Darwin) because it is mostly built from open-sourced products. WHy would they switch out the base for an OS that isn't even 15 years old (WinNT) but is already showing serious signs of aging?
It doesn't make any sense at all, and Dvorak is a master at riling people up over nothing.
In 5-7 years from now Apple will be killing off the Macintosh platform as we know it.
o Apple has been in the process of slowly changing from a strict computer company to a Consumer Electronics company.
o Apple has had ***HUGE*** success and selling more IPODS in one month than all the Macs combined. This really
means that Apple is less dependant on the MAC market and this will increase as time goes on.
o IPOD and ITUNES the service are only the first steps in the process to move the company to a Consumer Electronics
company.
o IPOD, ITUNES, and Quicktime are available on PC's as well as MACS.
o IPOD/ITUNES are moving into video and not just AAC/MP3 audio.
o Microsoft has pulled support for Internet Explorer, Windows Media Player, and MSN Messenger from the MAC platform.
o Microsoft has only given five years of support for the MAC platform using Microsoft Office.
o Apple is switching to standard PC Intel hardware and away from the old proprietary Apple hardware.
Thus making the MAC PC like and making MAC less special. Giving less people a reason to switch
and as you can see the switching ads have stopped.
o Macs are still not going to be able to dual boot Windows out of the box, so I don't expect them to
sell as well now that they are on the same hardware as regular PC's.
o Windows XP was really made to get users off of the DOS Windows such as Windows 98 and ME and on to the
NT platform. Windows 2000 came out February 2000 and then XP came out on October 2001.
o Windows Vista is going to be a very high quality OS from Microsoft and therefore be a lot more secure and stable.
o Windows Vista has technology spanning 5 years partly due to the technology being problematic due to it being very complicated and also due
to issues of using a complicated process. Both of these issues have been solved and this means faster releases of future versions of Windows.
o Microsoft has been more aggressive after fighting with Google and the company has been re-organized
with processes and personnel. Leading the company to be more streamlined and have a quicker turnaround.
o Windows Vista will have all of the MAC features and some that the MAC will not have and along
with better security on the browser and OS and with a better design overall, Mac's will not
be hyped as much.
Not just the search features and GPU type UI effects, but also the ability to have little Gagets that can use
the web, DHTML, or the Windows Presendation Foundation to create multimedia 2D/3D small applications that can
dock to the side bar or just on the desktop. So you can program these and not have to install them either. Think
Utorrent like apps on the desktop or sidebar.
o While Multi-Media in Windows has been mostly an afterthought, this is not going to happen any longer.
Multi-Media takes center-stage in Windows Vista.
A) Microsoft has take out the old audio core and re-written it from the ground up to support
the latest in audio fidelity (7.1 Dolby Surround Sound)
B) Microsoft also has re-written the audio drivers as well. The drivers have been taken out of the Kernel-Mode and put in User-Mode.
C) Microsoft has re-written the graphics drivers and graphics support just like what they did for audio. Now supporting
wide screen monitors, multi-monitor support, and high resolution DPI allowing graphics to be at their best and in user-mode now as well.
Also this allows scheduling to be done on the GPU level which means the GPU can now multi-task.
D) The Network drivers for the NIC and the
Dvorak thinks like a conspiracy theorist, amplifying and artificially conjoining irrelevant trivia beyond all common sense.
Still, there may be some grain of truth here. I would look at the following argument instead:
dual-bootPoint 1: Apple makes essentially all of its revenue (and profit) from hardware. They make money by shipping hardware, NOT by promoting OS X or beating Windows or selling songs on the iTMS.
Point 2: Apple has become a very good hardware manufacturer, in particular since Tim Cook joined. This is one of the most under-reported Apple stories of the last several years. In terms of cost and efficiency, these guys can beat HP easily and go toe-to-toe with Dell. Case in point: Calculate their inventory turns from recent SEC filings; Apple is getting 50+ turns per year, roughly comparable to Dell.
Point 3: Apple has to be thinking about the fact that most iPods have been sold to PC owners. This proves there is a huge pool of people out there who don't want to use Macs for whatever reason, but will pay premium prices for Apple products because they are "cool" (i.e. they value the Apple brand, but not the Mac). Apple has sold lots of iPods to these people; they must be looking to sell computers to the same.
Point 4: The rabid-loyal Mac fan base is a huge strategic asset to Apple, and one they would never ditch. Moving to Intel is irrelevant to most users because it doesn't change the user experience (indeed, very few would even notice). Moving to Windows would represent a complete sell-out. Apple would never do this knowingly. It would be like The Grateful Dead telling their fans they are losers for going to their concerts over and over.
Given all of the above, a logical course for Apple would be to ship machines that can run both OS X and Windows. This achieves two objectives:The only real downside risk to this "dual boot" strategy is that developers may decide to stop developing OS X versions of products. (If everyone can run Windows software, why develop for OS X?). Over time OS X might become increasingly marginalized.
macwintel :P
If Dvorak had bothered to Google for a list of Intel compatible Mac apps that are already shipping, he would have done something useful. As he has failed, I have done that job for him. Here is the list.
l
http://www.macintouch.com/imacintel/ubinaries.htm
There are too many apps already ported on the list to count. I did do some estimates based on how many were on the first few pages, and it looks like 500-1000 apps are on the list.
Dvorak fails to mention in his article whether that Yakov he was talking to actually owns a Mac. It would be interesting to know if he does or not. Because if he doesn't own one, then I cannot even guess what his qualifications are to prejudge what OS X software vendors are going to do with respect to Intel Macs.
I actually have a Mac, and a whole lot of the apps I own are already ported. I am running the universal binary versions of those apps on my Mac right now.
I also went to Adobe's site and they have clearly said they are going to make the next versions of their Mac apps run on Intel/PowerPC. They explained they are not going to go backward, and convert the current versions of their apps to Intel. So there will be a reasonable delay. Rosetta emulator was designed to handle those who run to the finish line a bit slower than the rest.
Mathematica is a pretty huge app and it was ported in 4 hours and was demonstrated running native on an Intel Mac back in June 2005.
Personally, I was shocked to see how many Mac apps have been ported by so many vendors in so little time. Most were probably caught off-guard when the Intel Macs unexpectedly shipped in January - instead of June - 2006. Yet they still got it done.
I remember how long it took to get some apps ported to Windows 95 - and gee, Windows NT. You didn't have so many apps ready to run native on those platforms 4 weeks after they shipped, believe me.
If he is going to publish articles to the web about computers, he might as well use his computer to search the web for facts.
The idea that Macs could be running Windows is obvious. Once the switch to Intel happened, it's just a matter of writing a few drivers for their hardware. But the idea that Apple will ditch OS X is ludicrous. They make a lot of money from the Mac OS and related tools. It is much more likely that they will offer either or both operating systems. This will retain their current marketshare in the OS X world and increase hardware sales with Windows.
"Hey dude, you're gettin' a Mac!"
d4,...,Nf3, or maybe I should use a Ratfaced Mcdougal?
I just left the Dell page after receiving that promo email. The $399 Dell is the cheapest I could find; dunno where the other poster found a $250 one. It has a DVD-ROM drive, which is considerably different from a DVD burner...ask your mommie to explain it.
USB? Big deal. My eight-year old Thinkpad has USB.
DVI out? I don't think so. The only monitors that sell with that Dell are analog flat panels, which use a VGA connector. Which makes sense, because the bottom end Dells use on-board video, with shared memory; they don't have frills like DVI connectors. They also have sucky performance for pretty much anything.
What's saddest of all is that you seem to think being anti-Apple is somehow counter-cultural and cool, when all it really does is demonstrate what a tool you are.
They've hit it on the head with this one!
9 .gif
http://www.geekculture.com/joyoftech/joyimages/78
Look, Ddorkak says he's CONVINCED the guy MIGHT be right. He couldn't have hedged his bet more. There's no bet. He's a troll. WHy do we bother? Oh yeah we're at work and we're screwing off.
"This would be the most phenomenal turnabout in the history of desktop computing."
No. That would be Microsoft switching to OS X...
You tore that argument appart as it rightly deserved :)
Which brings us to another question. What was the motivation behind this story, if not logic? Well, if someone wanted to keep OS X from becoming popular on Intel... why not try to pretend that OS X has no future? Smells a lot like a variation on anti-Linux FUD to me.
The difference is that Firewire supports ISOCHRONOUS data transfers.
The bits on the bus go on and off... on and off... on and off...
A mac is both hardware and software. Replace OS X by something else and you no longer have a mac. Apple has no benefit in making standard PCs running Windows.
But if OS X begin to work with normal PCs, that can be treatening to Microsoft who may then considers buying Apple and maybe killing OS X.
I don't want this to happen but it look more possible than Apple switching to Windows.
Dvorak was right about one thing: Apple switched to Intel. A prediction he has made every year since 1985...
I don't mean anything by that but remember, when we all heard Intel story from CNET, some of us said "OMG bullshit" and (I will look stupid) said "It has something to do with ARM CPUs".
Very weird things happen in 2 years... Very "impossible"
You could imagine Apple comparing PowerPC to Intel , showing PowerPC as crap just 1 year ago? Gee, if Steve Jobs had an account and posted his WWDC comments on Slashdot by +2 score, it would get -1 Troll in 10 minutes.
I don't agree or disagree with Dvorak, just remember Mactel decision... Also as a very disgruntled Apple customer as an owner of "G5 1600" desktop, it will sadly be time if they do anything like that. I mean to switch "back" to my home made PC.
Just a few weeks ago, Steve Jobs told Fortune or Business Week (or similar business mag) that if Microsoft wanted success in digital music then they were going to have to build their own iPod. He went out of his way to contrast the software/hardware integration philosophies of Microsoft and Apple and gave many reasons why Apple's way of doing things is better. Why would Steve make a fool of himself that way if there is a secret "we're switching to Windows" announcement coming?
In Dvorak's world, Steve Jobs would have sat down with the business press recently and told them the problem with the iPod and Mac is that the hardware is OK but if we could just get some of that great Microsoft software on there then we'd really be cooking. Once we get Pocket Windows running on the iPod why then you'll be able to look at your Excel spreadsheets while you listen to music. Who wouldn't want that after all?
If someone is passing you on the right, you are an asshole for driving in the wrong lane.
Apple's been in that boat practically since they've started. Tiny market share, expensive products, that's always been the Apple way. And whadya know, they're still going at it. Which leads me to suspect that Apple will continue to go along, always staying a few steps ahead of their Windows companions.
Apple is going to switch to Windows for drivers?
... they are not unique to MS Windows. And I have specialized stuff, too, like Wacom tablet and MOTU FireWire pro audio and there are stable Mac drivers that are easy to install. Printers, scanners, digital cameras, camcorders all just work.
In the first place, your iMac already has CD/DVD burner, Wi-Fi, Bluetooth, Gigabit Ethernet, FireWire, USB2, digital out for a second display or TV, 24-bit digital audio, a Webcam, and a media remote. It is easy to add USB and FireWire peripherals of every description by just hot-plugging them on. USB peripherals first appeared in the iMac's distinctive transparent blue plastic
In the second place, THERE ARE NO DRIVERS FOR 64-BIT WINDOWS. The 32-bit drivers have all kinds of technical problems and are not coming forward. The move to 64-bit on the Windows platform is going to be messy and there will be a great culling of various hardware. When you look ahead to a couple of years from now, Apple is way, way, way out front in the next-generation driver race. You can plug all kinds of things into a 64-bit G5 Mac today and it works. The driver architecture is object-oriented and mature and stable. Microsoft's 64-bit Windows is the first version where they've jettisoned some cruft and you can call it a next-generation system and it is way behind Mac OS X.
Finally, if you consider the Dvorak article again but ask yourself whether it is more likely to be the other way around: Microsoft switching to Mac OS X, or Dell-HP-et-al switching to Mac OS X. It is a year until Windows Vista and that is just XP II. Think of the work that has to be done to MS Windows regarding security (they are only just adopting user accounts now in Vista), reliability, stability, anti-malware, 64-bit (including 64-bit drivers), and on and on. All to recreate Mac OS X that's available today?
A few years ago it was common for a person with a Mac OS 9 computer to purchase a Mac OS X system and there is this scary moment when you first do that when you realize you have zero third-party software, that all of your third-party software is for the previous system. And all of your documents and work depend to some degree on that software. However, Mac OS X (PowerPC) includes an application called Classic that can run Mac OS 9 and its applications. It is basically a Mac emulator that uses the real PowerPC processor so it runs the system and applications at about 90% of native speed. So you ran your old Mac OS 9 apps in Classic on Mac OS X while you slowly transitioned to Mac OS X native applications (Carbon and Cocoa). The old apps looked like they always did, with their distinctive Mac OS 9 -style windows, but you could cut and paste between Classic and non-Classic apps, and you could make sure you had your calendar imported into a new calendaring app before you retired your old calendar app. You didn't have to switch overnight. Took me about a year. Not having to rush makes a big difference.
... even if the two apps are feature-identical, it is better to run the Mac version for security reasons if nothing else, or for consistent key shortcuts, or the more sophisticated clipboard. Mac apps are great (if not they wouldn't get ported to Windows so often hello Photoshop and Word and Excel). Secondly, you limit it to 32-bit "legacy" Windows, probably just MS Windows 2000 and MS Windows XP. Finally, Classic didn't try to make the non-native Mac OS 9 apps appear to be native and neither would the Intel equivalent. Windows apps that are running on Mac OS X (Intel) would still look like Windows apps, with their distinctive windows and fonts and everything else because they are literally, actually, running in Windows. Users have shown that they prefer the modern apps when they run old and new side-by-side. The new stuff runs better, faster, feels better, and has modern features like Unicode and Bonjour. Developers can easily give the user reas
Now Mac OS X (Intel) has Rosetta to run Carbon and Cocoa applications that are compiled for PowerPC. Obviously that is a bridge until all Mac apps have both Intel and PowerPC binaries inside of them. And Apple already announced that you won't be able to run Mac OS 9 apps on Mac OS X (Intel) to nobody's surprise. But wouldn't it be interesting if Apple shipped a Classic-like application for Mac OS X (Intel) that could run MS Windows and its applications? It would be basically a PC emulator (common technology) except it could use the real Intel processor so that the Windows system and applications run at 90% of full speed. In fact it would probably work better than Classic because where Classic really showed its seams was the single menubar of the Mac platform because when you switched between a Classic and non-Classic app the menubar changes subtly. On MS Windows you can easily contain each app and its menus in a single window, and the menubar could show some menus for the Classic-like environment that is running the Windows system.
It probably sounds far out to a Windows user, but if you've used Classic on a PowerPC Mac, one of the first things you notice is that the Mac OS 9 system and applications are just sitting there on the disk minding their own business without any knowledge of Mac OS X or Classic. When they are running on Mac OS X, they "think" they are running natively on their own Mac. In fact, it was a feature that you could boot the machine in Mac OS 9 if you wanted to. So Apple doesn't have to ship MS Windows, or do a WINE thing where you're replacing parts of it. The MS Windows comes off a PC hard disk and thinks its running on its own PC. A new Mac Intel user just puts their old disk in a FireWire enclosure and hooks it onto their Mac and runs their old apps whenever they need to.
Someone will want to say that once Windows apps run on Mac OS X then Mac developers are screwed. No. For one thing, the Mac application platform is better
Who in their right mind buys Intel parts for their PC? I hope nobody... doesn't anybody benchmark / read benchmarks before buying what the TV tells you to?
The original poster said "...DV over USB isn't standardized and would be vendor-specific." My point was "pretending that USB2 is somehow mystically prevented from becoming a digital video standard is shortsighted." And that's still true even if Firewire is technically much better suited to the task of carrying DV.
I was not saying "USB2 is better than Firewire." I'm saying that Best Buy and Walmart will be selling cheap-as-possible camcorders to average people who have no interest in Firewire, but do have USB2 ports. There certainly could be a standard developed to carry this low-quality video over USB2, and it could be done quickly without upgrades to peoples existing computers. I never said it was a great idea.
John
and they are partly owned by MS (am I the only one who remembers that deal?)
Apple is not owned, not even a little bit by MS (and never has been). In fact, the non-voting stock deal has already been mentioned in a +5 rated comment further upthread (the deal was for Microsoft's investment of $150 million in non-voting Apple stock with a three year commitment before divestment). Google it, Microsoft no longer holds those shares in Apple (or to anyone's knowledge any meaningful investment in Apple common stock; maybe they should though).
Even when Microsoft made this token investment (to save face in their undisclosed settlement for stealing Quicktime to use in Video for Windows, remember that?) Apple had billions of cash in the bank.
I don't know why this meme persists. It's not even 10 years ago, how soon we forget. Or is it that we only remember events the way we want to remember them?
Read Heinlein's 1953 Revolt in 2100, now more than ever.
Hehe, I had my threshhold set to high, I didn't notice that other posters had already pointed out that Microsoft never owened any part of Apple. Sorry. I hope you get this message before you take any time responding :-D
I didn't mean to pile on after others had already cleared it up. If anything, I hope my post clarifies a little the situation. Cheers!
Read Heinlein's 1953 Revolt in 2100, now more than ever.
Intel's new firmware is called EFI. It fills the same function in Intel-based Macs that OpenFirmware fills in PowerPC-based Macs.
In order to boot legacy operating systems that rely on BIOS (such as Windows 2000, Windows XP) there is a feature of EFI that enables it to emulate BIOS. Apple took this feature out of their EFI implementation. That is why nobody can get Windows XP running on the Intel Macs. Some say that Vista will work because it supports EFI but apparently it is not that simple due to different versions of EFI and the timing of the Vista release. Probably the first versions of Vista will require BIOS.
Refer to this article:
Why XP Will Never Officially Work On The Mac
So ... if Apple is planning to run MS Windows on the new Intel-based Macs they are sure going about it in a strange way by making systems that can't even run Windows at all.
And ... if Apple is planning to run MS Windows on the Mac then they sure are going to a lot of trouble to create BOTH Mac OS X (PowerPC) and Mac OS X (Intel) and also Server versions, not to mention Mac-only applications. For example a few years ago they bought Emagic and canned Logic for Windows and gave hardware rebates to the Windows using customers. Now two versions later what are they going to do, port the Mac OS X version to Windows? Ha ha Microsoft will have to build some pro audio plumbing first (compare to Apple's CoreAudio, CoreMIDI, AudioUnits.)
And ... Apple is going to a lot of trouble to prevent people from running Mac OS X (Intel) on generic Intel hardware for a company that is about to abandon Mac OS X.
It is hard for Dvorak and other PC bigots to face the fact that they ran MS Windows on promises for 10 years and for their trouble they are hip-deep in crapware and watching helplessly as Apple proves itself right.
Is this true of Maxtor then? as my USB2/Firewire 300Gig hard drive is significantly faster under firewire than it is under USB2.
Lots of small files = fast. 20 4 gig files = slow.
USB2 = slow sustained transfer rate period. anyone unsing both side by side on the same machine using different data devices knows this.
It's not just the ipod.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
My brother-in-law bought a mac mini after seeing mine (I bought mine on a whim). My niece plans on getting a Mac when she goes to university.
All that from a single iPod sale, none of us had considered Macs before: I'd say the halo effect is working just fine.
Bad analogies are like waxing a monkey with a rainbow.
The Apple Blog has a parody of the Dvorak piece.
Extraordinary Vacations. Exceptional Prices
As far as anecdotal evidence, I know of a whole department that switched.
I can also count around a dozen 'Windows-is-just-fine-for-me' individuals and one small business (not mine) that switched as a result of either them or their peers borrowing a spare iBook.
I can also think of several dozen acquaintances, collegues or former co-workers who used to run some Wintel-based notebook, but now run one from Apple. It's not evenly distributed. MBAs, for example, won't touch anything not annointed by their esteemed Chairman Gates. So if you go to a café with too many MBAs, you'll still see mostly Wintel. Other places, especially high tech conferences, you'll see many or mostly Macs. YMMV.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
So, the 'switch' campaign didn't work? Let's just say that in 20 years of Mac use I've switched my share of 'dozers to the light side of the force. I may have switched a handful prior to OS X (probably only just more than I could count on one hand), but since the original iMac and especially since OS X's release I've switched a good 20-30 people. If you consider the millions of long-standing users like me out there, and each (macevangelists as we are) are quite often switching people personally, then that's a hell of a success rate for OS X. It actually seems to sell itself 99% to the average 'dozer, and quite often that 1% extra push is easily supplied by an existing Mac user. After all, the most successful sales method is recommendation. If you want to buy a new product, but know nothing about it, you ask someone you know who HAS one - if they recommend it and even show you how to use it, you're much more likely to go for it. It's very much like the 'Keeping up with the Jones's' phenomenon - you can see it working with things like Ebay's feedback scoring. Remember the golden sales pitch, "the main difference is in the emphasis - Mac OS, It just works!!!. Windows, it juuust works." hehe. I caught a PCWorld salesman actually trying to talk a customer OUT of buying a Mac one time - he was telling the customer that he'd not be compatible with the rest of the world, that you can't get any software for the Mac and other such nonsense - until I stepped in and corrected him (much to the delight of his junior assistant, who it seems was on my side!!). I'm guessing it was all down to personal commissions (probably higher margins on a Sony Vaio than a Powerbook), but when the salesman tried to tell the guy that he couldn't open Word files on a Mac I HAD to do something about it... the customer was suitably impressed that he could use OpenOffice for free thus not needing to buy complete suites of new software in the switch - I even gave him my card and told him to call me if he got stuck. I received one call from him about a month later to tell me he'd bought a Mac, never had a problem and been able to sort out any minor issues himself. The youngest Mac user I've so far met was 3 years old. Unable to fully read, yet able to use MacOS, simply because the dock makes it possible for her to know what she's doing without the need for text - conversely, she was unable to use Windows, because it's start menu relies too heavily on text and she couldn't "see the pictures (icons) properly". Strike up another plus point for Macs in education! ;)
Dvorak, he's just a bullsh*t artist - always has been, always will be. He wants desperately to switch himself, but he's scared to admit it for fear of "I told you so" coming from a gazillion Mac users. heh!
My mother can install memory, for crying out loud.
Yes, and I hope your mother likes your block-shaped head.
Here, maybe we can overcome your infirmity together. (Graciously extends hand...)
I bought my 14" iBook G4 two years ago. By the time I had received it, Apple announced a new model that replaced the one I had ordered. The 1.0 Ghz iBook model was bumped up to a 1.33 Ghz, and the newer model came with a SuperDrive instead of an optical combo drive. When I removed my laptop from its package and turned it on, it was DOA (which means "Dead on Arrival").
Wait, what's that? Why was it DOA? Oh, well, it was because the RAM wasn't seated correctly.
Now, pay attention, your Geekiness, because this next part's important: Normally, a misaligned RAM card won't cause a boot failure in an iBook G4.
Of course, you knew that, right? Because after all, you're the Original Geekster! With a Block-Shaped-Head! The iBook series, as you know, has 256 MB on-board RAM and one PC2100 slot. In the case of the 14" iBook G4 (early 2004), this slot could take up to a 512 MB chip, for a total of 768 MB. This was my BTO configuration. What should have happened is that the system should have booted just fine with the onboard RAM, but the PC2100 RAM shouldn't have been recognized. What did happen was that when I took the computer out of its box and turned it on, it didn't boot at all.
That's called DOA, and it means, "Dead on Arrival." As in, "no workee." Are you with me so far?
Now I've got my DOA laptop in my hands. I've got two choices:
1. Flip out the keyboard and loosen the retaining screw, then reseat the memory, hoping that the DOA condition wasn't some anomalous issue resulting in a logic board replacement.
2. Take it two miles to my local Apple Store and make sure it's not some anomalous issue resulting in a logic board replacement.
Since I pale in comparison to your legendary Nerdiness, I chose the option that only occurs to regular people--I took it in.
Thanks to the conditions of Apple's warranty and the fact that I'm a really, really good customer, I got to take advantage of a little speed bump and a SuperDrive. So, you know, Bonus for me. And my replacement laptop could upgrade to 1.25 MB of RAM instead of a paltry 768 MB, which I chose to do.
Oh, yeah, I forgot. I have a question for you -- how did I know that the RAM wasn't seated correctly? Hmmmm, that's a hard question for all, but you can flip out and like, totally answer it. And hey, good news! I just thought up another clever nickname for you! When you enter my realm henceforth, you shall be UberGeekster of the Cubed Skull!
Huzzah!