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How Cheap Can A PC Be?
geoff lane writes "Ballmer wants a $100 computer. OK, can we build a reasonable PC for just $100 and a copy of Linux? The rules are: It's assumed that a monitor, keyboard and mouse are already available. Ethernet connectivity must be provided. All components must already have Linux support. All components must be new and currently available. The result must be electrically safe for the home. Is it possible?"
That's expensive. I hope it comes with support.
is at 149$... no dice with that suggestion I guess.
XBOX! You can find em for $100.
The real path to male liberation
No, it cannot be done at todays day in age, unless you want a really bad computer. I mean, what do you want to do with the computer, just be able to turn it on? Cause thats all you will be able to do with 100 dollars. Even for word processing, you will need a decent size ram, hard drive, motherboard, ethernet port, case. That alone is already at 200 dollars.
he wants something windows only and to sell windows-lite for $40 for it.
If we got a major manufacturer behind this, we could have a 400 MHz Pentium M on a 400 MHz bus (1:1), 256 MB RAM, 40 GB hard drive, and Linux on there for $99.
If we didn't have a major manufacturer behind it, we're talking old stuff which. Not quite as fast, not as efficient, and more liable to breakage.
BLING BLING. Meet the architecture that's changing everything.
Why should the hardware profits be sacrificed to support high software prices?
Perhaps Windows should be cheaper to support high hardware prices. Cheaper software might also reduce piracy since the it would be more affordable.
ShoutingMan.com
Sure with a free operating system you could probally pull of a computer with reasonable specs. I bought a 35 dollar computer that is a pentum 2 at 333 mhz. Then I upgraded the memory for about another 35. Then you upgrade the processor to a 733 for about 10-20 bucks. Well under a hundred dollars and still reasonable.
My UID is prime is yours?
When a Fry's Electronics store opened up out near Chicago, I picked up and AMD Athlon 1.3GHz, 512 meg of ram, 60 gig HDD and paid $99 for it. Of course it had Lindows installed on it, but after a quick reformat and poping in a redhat distro it was up and running in no time.
You can go to the average garbage dump and find at least one computer that will run something like Debian without a GUI. If you're lucky, you might find a Pentium II or faster, and be able to run something like DamnSmallLinux. Chances are, you'll be able to find a monitor, keyboard, and mouse there too. That accomplishes the task for $00.00.
eclecti.cc
i think if it were possible, walmart would already be doing it.
Gyrate Dot Org - "Where high-tech meets low-life"
Linspire has several offers with hard drive manu's.
You can get a hard drive with linspire preloaded on it!
That might help bring the cost down.
Absolutely; They're sold by a company named "used".
Seriously though, do we really need a $100 disposible pc when there are so many functional used machines stacking up in corporate closets?
-Chris
--an unbreakable toy is useful for breaking other toys--
Free Flat Screen HERE!
Case
Power Supply Unit (Often this comes bundled with Case)
Motherboard
CPU
Hard Drive
Stick of Ram
Gfx card (unless mobo has onboard video.. *shudder*
CD Drive if you don't want to be ghetto (they are very cheap)
At current prices this will run you just under $200. I don't see this hardware going under $100 unless it's older hardware (i.e. AMD tbird 1ghz, perfectly servicable IMO). It'd be nice to see some vendors selling older hardware for much cheaper, but we all know that'll never happen.
Hasn't anyone else seen the movie "The First 20 Million Dollars is always the Hardest"? http://www.fact-index.com/t/th/the_first_20_millio n_is_always_the_hardest.html
PriceWatch shows the cheapest "barebones" PC (CPU + mobo + case) is $56 (AMD Athlon XP 2000). $20 shipping gets you $76. Combine it with RAM and you've already hit the $100 limit (processor not included). It would have to be network boot only in order to make it, if you somehow got a free processor and/or RAM that is.
US businesses that currently accept chip and PIN/signature
yes.
while I realize this isn't really a solution for the populace at large, a lot of people give their computers to thrift stores after they upgrade. You can often find a halfway decent computer (or enough parts to build one) for $100. Not a wonderful computer, mind you. Usually includes keyboard, mouse, and monitor as well though.
Get a 486 for $20. eg -
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&cat
Install;
http://www.ipt.ntnu.no/~knutb/linux486/linux486.h
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
I was going to say some sort of mini-itx with onboard everything but I don't suppose you'd be lucky enough to get it all working with Linux especially if it was a new motherboard.
A simple design is best.
If you could get the all-in-one concept to work I think $100 is possible...but not a system running Windows. The biggest cost would be the peripherals like the case, PSU, keyboard, mouse, monitor.
errr, doesn't windows itself cost more than $100?
Does that mean Microsoft will start giving away PC hardware free?
(heh, I wish)
My IBM PC300PL is worth about 100 bucks. It's got 288MB, a 40GB drive, a 40XCDRW, an Intel P3-450 and a free Ethernet card even though it's already built in to the MoBo. The problem is NOT NOT NOT NOT the hardware it's that Steve Balmer wants to sell you a PC that needs at least twice the hardware as that. If MS just gave us a secure efficient version of W2K we could all have 100 dollar PCs.
For a hundred bucks I'll gladly toss an ethernet card into my ancient Packard Bell Legend with the 133MHz Pentium "screamer" chip!!! Heck, it has a whopping 32 megs of RAM!!!
What?! You wanted a system you could actually use?! In that case, nope!
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
I looked at my favorite computer store and found that the cheapest processor was an AMD Duron 1.6ghz, at $76 CDN or $60 US, and it wasn't even in stock. VIA makes a really cheap CPU, I believe, which might be usable.
Motherboard will cost at least the same, as will RAM. Don't forget the HD, and CD ROM.
Assume the graphics card, ethernet and sound are on the motherboard.
I'm not saying it can't be done, but manufacturers are going for faster-better, and so are consumers. The really cheap, low-powered no-frills stuff is for special applications, and generally difficult to find even for people who are capable of assembling such stuff.
I do believe, however, that a manufacturer with deep pockets who can get a significant discount from OEMs based on volume could pull it off.
Ballmer was talking about a MS-powered computer at $100, you're dreaming to get that configuration in Linux at $100 :)
Seriously though, even if Linux is free, we have seen MS's tactic with XBox, ie subsidizing the hardware to the max just to be successful - who says money can't buy friends, even if they are only money friends?
Rock that crushes, Paper & Scissors that don't matter.
If you don't mind having a used piece of equipment, it can be done. I picked up a system for my wife at retrobox.com for $75, WITH a keyboard and mouse. P3 450MHz, 128 mb RAM, 16mb VRAM, 6.5 gb HD, CD-ROM, USB and ethernet included. I had to add a sound card, but that as not that difficult or expensive an addition.
There might be outdated components, $20 case WITH 300W PSU combos, and some PC Chips crap, but it still falls under electrically safe... We're going to use NewEgg numbers, and not include shipping.
s cription=11-171-037&depa=1)s cription=13-185-010&depa=1)s cription=19-103-156&depa=1)s cription=20-223-007&depa=1)s cription=22-140-133&depa=1)
Case: MGE ATX case w/350W PSU $10 (one day special) (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?de
Mobo: PC Chips Socket A mobo $26 (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?de
CPU: Athlon 1.33GHz $41 (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?de
RAM: Rosewill 128MB DDR $21 (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?de
HDD: Maxtor 40GB $45.50 (one day special) (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?de
We'll stop it here. We're using SHIT components, and we've got $143.50, without shipping, IDE cables, CD-ROM drive, etc., etc., and using one day specials.
It's possible, but not DIY.
How many rolls of duct tape are we alloted for this task?
$26 - PCChips "M811LU" KT266A Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket A
$41 - AMD Athlon 1.33 GHz, 266MHz FSB, 256K Cache Processor - OEM
$10.75 - POWMAX 320W Power Supply for Intel and AMD systems Model "VP-320ATX"
$14.50 - Artec Black 56X CDROM, Model CHM-56, Retail
= $102.25, ignoring hard drive or anything else.
So no, probably not.
It's only an insult if it's not true.
Ballmer also defended a comment made earlier this year by Bill Gates, Microsoft's chairman, who said security will not be an issue in three years.
and HOW would this be possible..?
Give them cheap PC's, Yeah that will stop them from stealing software to use.
Cheaper PC's = More people needing an OS, which of course they will get from one of their friends who just happens to have access to one of those Pirated versions, or they will buy that extremely crippled version from microsoft for $35.00, "Let me see, Free or $35.00, Ah hell, we don't need to eat this summer, lets get that Crippled OS version."
If firefighters fight fire and crime fighters fight crime, what do Freedom fighters fight?
I can build a computer for 100 bucks. One problem though.
It's going to suck becuase it will be full of bottom of the barrel parts.
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
Watch out, we bought some "Great Quality" GQ computer systems (~$150) and two of them had early HD failure. Somthing will give as these prices crater.
How valuable is your data and your time to keep good timely backups?
Hedley
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I've seen Fry's (outpost.com/frys.com) sell 99 dollar computers. Basically is just a beige box with a low-end low-power (not amd/intel)cpu.
Don't know much more about it because I've never considered buying one of those.
Grump.
Is it true that more people vote for the winner of American Idol, than vote for the president? -Ali G.
If you want a conventional PC the problem is probably that a CPU is going to be at minimum $35 which is a substantial portion of the cost. A 20GB hard drive on pricewatch is only $20, so thats not bad. That only leaves $45 for a motherboard, case, and PSU. Probably doable if you look real hard or make something specific for this purpose.
Would be great if it could support all of Windows MCE 2005 functions too
http://www.leadmagnet.50megs.com
www.newegg.com =P
"Instant gratification takes too long." - Carrie Fisher
Ahh yes. Word processing, better get a top of the line box for that. Maybe set up a striped array, dual displays, and a couple of gigs of RAM minimum. Oh and you'll need to buy the latest version of M$ Office, oh and make sure you get the 'professional' version, cause the other versions don't have the advanced features you'll need, like 'undo'. Oh and did I mention there is a manufacturers rebate included in the price, so you'll have to pay $500 at the checkout today but if you fill out the forms immaculately you should get a rebate for the remaining $400 sometime next year. Thanks for shopping with us!
-- Bored? Check out my Portfolio
I used to do word processing on a 4.77 MHz 8086, with a monochrome screen. It wasn't WYSIWYG, but it got the job done, and WordStar was quite quick and spritely. WordPerfect 5.1 ran just fine on all the machines in my highschool's lab, and they were, IIRC, 16 Mhz? (Possibly 8? It was a long time ago. They were IBM PS/2s, with MCGA graphics adapters.)
Kids these days...
That's about $200 over the target. I doubt that the KB and mouse would make much of a dent in that $200, FWIW.
He doesn't mean a computer for 100 usd. He means the hardware from 100 usd. Windows will still be 30-180 USD.
That they way things work, Microsoft only wants microsoft to make a profit.
"PCs are not selling to the lower end of the population in China and India. People buying machines there are relatively affluent. So...should the prices be lower? Not really. Until government and situational factors reduce piracy...those people...don't pay," Ballmer said. (article clipping)
Now an open letter to Ballmer
Ballmer
Shouldn't people in the lower end of the population spend their money on something a little more worthwhile then a computer.
Maybe just maybe they could spend that money on their family Before purchasing such a luxury item as a computer. Of course I am not going to be naive and say they don't need a computer for some reason. But to say that I want money from the lower end of the China/India population is selfish, Specially when they have better things to spend it on..
I don't do business with your company on those rash comments. I get by without using your software. Sorry if you feel that I am not being fare.
Not saying I haven't pirated your software before, instead of attacking me you're attacking someone who couldn't even pay you if they wanted to is just harsh. Oh and by the way I used your software to learn about and then go into computers so in a indirect way your company benefitted from it.. So the very thing that you are against has kept your company afloat, by customer awareness.
I no longer use any pirated software from your company. I get by with alternate platforms (Mac, Linux)
Daniel
tslsia
This Sig Kills Fascists
TimexSinclair 1000
I remember getting an issue of Popular Science and there was a $99 Computer on the cover.
Couldn't do much, but hey this was the very early 80's. I remember going to the local drugstore and seeing it in the case. $99. BASIC! What more could you want?
power supply motherboard
CPU
CPU fan
CD drive
RAM
hard drive
case
You can get cheap motherboards with attached video/sound/LAN. You can technically build the PC without a floppy drive or CD/DVD burner to save more money. Looking for the lowest prices around (via Froogle), for new parts, you'll find:
motherboard-- Asus A7V8X-X, $48
CPU-- AMD Sempron 2200, $45
CPU fan-- Anything, $5
CD drive-- $15
RAM-- DDR-266 256 MB PC-2100, $40
hard drive-- Samsung 40GB HDD, $45
case-- $29, includes 300W power supply
Grand total: $227 (not including tax/shipping/hassle of ordering from a bunch of places)
Some stores, depending upon where you live, have some really decent deals on packaged systems. I'm in San Diego, and my favorite Chips and Memory (yes, I hate their frames too), has a nice package for $239.
AMD Sempron 2200
256MB RAM
80GB Hard Drive(7200RPM)
52X CD-RW
Onboard AGP (Up to 32 MB) and Sound & Game Adapter
Built-in LAN and Fax/Modem Module
52X CDRW (Yes CDRW Included)
1.44MB Floppy Disk Drive
Med Tower ATX Case, 300W UL/CE approved ATX power supply
1 Year Parts and Labor Warranty
To get the price lower, you'll need a used hard drive, CPU, memory, or motherboard. Then you might squeeze in closer to $150.
They are already selling... a $300 computer.
Although they are selling a of some sort.
I'll never make that mistake again, reading the experts' opinions. - Feynman
As someone else here mentioned, Frys Electronics has held specials for their "Great Quality" machines, running Lindows/Linspire for 100.00 on several occasions.
e-TopCo has one. Actually they have several. And at $55.00 who cares if it's an optiplex? And it has a keyboard and mouse.
What justifies the requirement for new equipment? In the era of reduce, reuse, recycle, I'd imagine that using used (erm, "re-certified") parts would be worth more than just the price differential, as one wouldn't have to pollute the environment in disposing of an office's previous generation equipment and making new hardware.
Cases are for whimps! ;)
She's built like a steak house, but she handles like a bistro....
I went to my usual store's site and put together the cheapest pc possible:
1. MidTower CodeGen with 300W ps $24
2. Hitachi 40GB ATA100 hard drive w/cable $50.40
3. EVS KM400 mobo with via chipset, 128MB DDR266 ram, AMD Sempron 2200+, cpu cooler $105.50
The mobo has integrated sound, vga, lan, usb, and audio. VIA chipsets are reasonably well supported.
At $179+shipping, it's not at the $99 price point. However I thought *damn* that's a nice pc for $179.
Cheapest computer that will run Doom3 at a playable level. Linux is fine. Monitor, keyboard and mouse already purchased.
--------
Bleah! Heh heh heh... BLEAH BLEAH!!! Ha ha ha ha...
Well anyway, pricewatch shows a 2100+ for $105 (93+12s/h) from maincomp. Although it doesn't have a network card ... Now no way am I endorsing maincomp. In fact, there are a lot of companies on pricewatch with I approach with a bit of skepticism. Thankfully every transaction I have made has been no sig issues.
HP Vectra VL Desktop Complete fully tested Intel PII with 233~266 6.4GB HD 64MB RAM (upgrade to 128MB for only add $30.00) CD ROM and 1.44MB Floppy Drive 101 Enhanced Keyboard & Mouse. MS Windows 98
Off Pricewatch, Costs $109. Includes an OS. Really people are you that clueless? $100 computers are easy even new ones are cheap. I can rummage around the bins at a dealer's discount bin and come up with all NEW (as in Unopened) box for $60. Including When I last bought a new computer is was $500, and then state of the art, well 2 steps down from top of the line, name brand board and kickass 20" Sony monitior who's only flaw was it said SUN on the case. This is pure FUD.
Sorry about the writing. Robot fingers, you know? Cliff Steele in DOOM PATROL #23
Microsft should do it themselves. I believe it could be done for $100 though there might be a small loss forever or for a while. They were willing to sell the xBox at a loss so why not a "puff" pc? The xBox is already a pretty good computer so they might be able to reconfigure it as a desktop. Just an idea.
http://www.busyweather.com/
Unfortunately, the total cost of an Xbox for use as a Linux desktop is:
Xbox port to USB converter - $8 x 2 = $16
Xbox off Ebay - $120 (seems to be average going price)
Xbox VGA box - $65
Renting MechAssault - $7 ? haven't rented in a while so I could be wrong here.
That makes it $208 and it assumes that the Xbox can be modded to boot Linux without buying a chip and you can find the right version of MechAssault.
Mind you, that's a hell of a lot closer than you'll get with almost anything else.
For one thing, Wal-Mart's $300 PC costs $300 with OEM Windows XP Home. For another, Wal-Mart is doing (present progressive) it but has not done (perfect) it, that is, Wal-Mart is still working on getting the hardware down to $100.
And that's a whole hell of a lot harder.
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
While not techincally following the request, it serves the same purpose.. cheap PC...
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Does anyone know how costly it would be to modify a palm-like archetecture to hook up to a TV or monitor? 800*600?
meh
Let's go through what is the cheapest on pricewatch (note: I'm not always picking the cheapest part in a category.. many parts are sold below cost, and extras are tacked on (i.e. cpu for $29, heatsink & fan for an additional 19.95.. In cases like that I'm picking the best price with everything "necessary"..) All prices are marked as /
/w onboard video, audio & lan)
Case: $24/0 - atx 300w
Mb & Processor: $83/4.94 (P3 Celeron 1ghz SiS 635
Ram: $18/0 128mb PC2700 DDR
HDD: $36/0 WD Caviar 40gb EIDE 7200rpm
DVD/CDRW: $30/4 LG 32X10X40X16 CD-RW/DVD Combo
That should just about cover the bare minimum... but we're at $191 before shipping. I think its reasonable to assume that you can cut 50% out of that if you are doing some volume, but $100 is a very tough price point for everything you need in a pc.
Karma: SELECT `karma` FROM `users` WHERE `userid`=138474;
You can get a Linksys wireless router for about $70. It's a machine with 16M of memory, 4M of flash, and a 125 or 200MHz chip. It also comes with a hub, a wired Ethernet, WiFi, and a power supply. So, that shows you can ship a lot of hardware for fairly little money.
Replace WiFi with a simple VGA controller and give it a couple of USB ports and a little more flash instead of the hub and you would end up, at roughly the same price, with a usable personal computer that could run a light X11 desktop and some useful apps (browser, word processor, etc.). If you add a CF slot, people even have removable storage.
Another choice is the standalone file server appliance, also for under $100 AFAIK; it already has the USB port and also runs Linux.
And some of the game consoles also show it can be done, if you get the volume high enough.
Even better! Scrap the P4 and replace with a Celly, way cheaper!
The embedded soundcard is an ac97, supported by the mainstream Linux kernel;
The ethernet chip is a sis900, also supported under the mainstream Linux kernel;
I don't know if the embeded video card is supported by X.org (XF86 did not support it 2 years ago), but if not, one can still stick with VESA;
Of course that I am talking about my board, which is nolonger on the site (the closest one I found there is this one).
Seriously, those boards are wonderful for workstations!
What a Greedy Greedy man. He's become rich by making software unaffordable, but its not enough. He now wants to force hardware manufacturers to sell the fruit of their labour for next to nothing so he and his can continue to push up the price of his mediocre but standard software. Its absolutely disgusting.
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
...unless a computer manufacturer is willing to market a $99 PC as a loss-leader. "Buy this PC for $99 if you sign up for $20 a month internet access, or tech support, or the Foo Computer Corp. fan newsletter, or whatever."
DIY computers got more expensive than bargain-basement Dell boxen about 2 years ago...I bought the Dell that I'm typing this on for about $300 shipped with a monitor and a copy of XP. I did it through a deal on Ben's Bargains when I realized I couldn't build my own system for less than the price of the Dell. Now, my gaming system is homebrew, and I have plenty of homebrew systems around, but those are mostly application-specific (a music jukebox machine, a server, a game emulation machine) and a labor of love rather than practical "do-it-all" cheapie boxen.
If you want a PC for less than $100, your only option right now is really to head on over to Craig's List and find somebody who needs to get rid of their old Compaq for $50. In that sense, the sub-100-dollar PC is possible, but it's still a loss-leader for the guy who's selling his $2000 system for a fraction of the cost when new.
Now, could it BE done? Is it POSSIBLE? Of course. But, again, only by a company like Dell or IBM or whoever can afford to buy old Duron chips by the truckload and stick 'em into bargain-basement mobos for inclusion into home computing applicances. It will happen at some point. It just hasn't happened quite yet.
--- Where's my car, and why are these grass stains on my pants?
Balmer wants a $100 computer.
;-)
You would think he would be able to afford something better then that...Microsoft having problems?
Well it can't be done on newegg...
s cription=13-135-153R&type=Refurbish)s p?des cription=11-171-037&DEPA=0)a sp?des cription=19-103-156&depa=1)s p?des cription=22-137-123R&type=Refurbish)s p?des cription=20-223-007&depa=1)u ctDesc.asp?des cription=35-151-110&depa=0)
$36.80 ECS mobo (http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.asp?de
$10 case and PSU
(http://www.newegg.com/app/viewproductdesc.a
$41 AMD Athlon 1.33
(http://www.newegg.com/app/viewProductDesc.
$52 20gb maxtor hdd
(http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.a
$21 128mb ddr
(http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProductDesc.a
$7.99 heatsink/fan
(http://www.newegg.com/app/ViewProd
=
$168.79
I am sure a copy of Linux is exactly what Mr. Balmer was thinking.
Athalon? I really don't understand where that extra A comes from.
There seems to be a lot of confusion between what is available on the used/surplus market, and what is commercially viable. One can buy an automobile for $100, but that doesn't mean a $100 auto is a viable commercial product.
I have always planned spending a lot more on software than hardware.
,floppy,std usb keyboard, pcmia card slots, 802.11 & ethernet port.
With the steep discounting of hardware, the cost savings is in software.
A $100 dollar machine will just make software vendors than do NOT reduce prices even richer.
An information appliance with reliable software that doesn't need patching every week would be the cheap option I think is likely.
Something like a Apple 2 with os & sw in a small package with an monchrome lcd
Put the os software on rom & rom cards and data on the memory cards & floppy.
O wait this sounds like an X-BOX , never mind.
Train everyone to use & program Linux in high school, then we can all use the cheap
hardware that is being surplused.
Like 486's & Pentium 1,2,& 3 systems.
This is my opinion based on what little I know and understand of the rumors and lies Thanks, Randal
You'll find special deals to achieve this, but nothing else will come close. And you can bet those special deals have all sorts of terms and conditions that you don't want.
Just to prove the point, how many MBs do you know that are under $50? How many CPUs? I managed to find a new athlon 2000+ combo for $80, but even there I was having to get special deals (pcboost.com).
A search on pricewatch returned a duron 950 for under $100, but actually going to the website showed that 'targetpcinc.com' was out of the 950 and had replaced it with a duron 1200, raising the price to $107. Not only that, but the system had no ram and no HDD. Ram starts at $18, a HDD is $40. So I can barely get a machine for $17. And if you've ever tried installing linux with no floppy and no CD, you know how 'desirable' a CD reader is. That would bring the machine to $190. Throw in a keyboard and mouse and you should just avoid breaking $200. Oh, plus shipping and sales tax.
I accept that a huge OEM would be able to get better prices. But twice as good and I start smelling fish...
If you would notice , the cost of computer in india is almost the same as in USA.That is, a 500 $ PC is around 25000 rupees in India.Obviously US is atleast 5 times richer than India. .Why not Microsoft shake hands with Intel to set up a mass producing company hardware company.This way , hardware cost is reduced and so people could buy computer for 5000 rupees which is 100$.
The reason for this is hardware is imported from US,taiwan before assembled in india
Eventually if computer gets this cheaper , im pretty sure every other lower and mid middle class folks could buy computer and software piracy may be reduced..
May be its wishful thinking.
Hello , this is my way.
Which way is yours ?
btw there is no right way
Most of the answers are along the lines of, "I can't find the parts at that price in this catalog or that store". I don't think that was the question.
Some other comments have focused on whether what Balmer said was reasonable. Interesting topic, but that isn't the question either.
Some other comments have said, "Yes, get a used one." That still isn't the question.
The question is: Could we spec out a PC that, in volume, could sell for $100 and run Linux?
An interesting twist on the question: Can we consider it "a PC" (for purposes of this question) if it doesn't have an Intel-compatible processor? Say, a StrongARM CPU? (Note that the criterion was that it run Linux; well, Linux runs on a wide variety of CPUs.)
You can get Epia Via boards for $99 but I would assume if you were doing any kind of volume you could easily the the case thrown in and come in $100. Save the hard drive expense by going with LTSP.
"The result must be electrically safe for the home."
...
picky, picky, picky
In the old days of mini-computers, sellers would charge more for the minicomputer version of software than for the PC version, even when less people were using the PC version (ie. there was no volume discount argument). The reason they could get away with this was that people who'd paid for a $10k computer would balk less at paying more for the software.
Turning this around, while MS charges a fraction of the cost of a new PC, people are prepared to see it as a relatively insignificant expense (eg here in NZ, I'd pay probably NZD1K retain for a computer (inc monitor etc and WinXP)) and WinXP is only say NZD200 of this.
If however the computer price came down to say NZD400, of which WinXP was half that, then I'd have a much harder time brushing the WinXP cost under the carpet.
Lower PC costs will force lower software prices.
Now I have RTFA, but Ballmer probably has it in his head that people will pay NZD1K for a computer and if the hardware costs only NZD200 then he can put NZD800 in his pocket. People are not as dumb as that.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
I guess you don't want to get the hardware at an end-supplier - even a cheap one. They already put (a lot) of margin on the product to keep it profitable for them. That makes buying at the producer the only cheap way.
Slashdot: stuff for news, nerds that matter, matter for news, stuff that nerd
You could do it. The c3/600 starts at $20. You can add chipset for another $20 (with on-board graphics and ethernet). I'm omitting sound -- that usually requires a seperate codec chip. 256mb compactflash is $23 (as hard drive), and is IDE-compatible -- it'd be probably $10 without profit and form factor. 128MB RAM is $15. Motherboard would probably be another $20 (small board with all of these things soldered on -- no sockets). Wall wart for power supply would be $2, probably, and another $1 for a regulator on the board -- we're not sucking a lot of power so this should be fine. We're up to $88. Add a make-shift case for a couple of box (think tupperware with cut-outs for the ports), and we're still under $100, even with a modest profit margin. It can't do much, but it can run GNU/Linux, browse the web, basic word processing, and simple programming. Quite adequate for the third world --- we could get away with a lot less if we could get fuckwit webmasters to lay off the CSS, XML, JavaScript, Java, Flash, and other crap, and go back to nice, standard HTML3.2.
It's not a question of whether or not it's possible, but rather "is it feasible?". Driving an industry to mass-produce with the lowest possible standards in order to meet a fixed price is ridiculous.
I understand that there is also the social-benevolence aspect of this question, in terms of providing (eg Simputer in India) a publicly-available PC that approaches affordability. However, this can be a niche market (eg Simputer in India).
I think it's wrong-headed to aim for a price-point. There is neither a moon to reach in seven years, nor the need to reach it.
This wasn't just plain terrible, this was fancy terrible. This was terrible with raisins in it. - Dorothy Parker
Look, a sub $101 computer isn't rocket science. There are landfills full of say 500Mhz and below machines...
:) $99m &cate gory=51110&item=5133297107&rd=1
A 400Mhz machine, even a 166Mhz machine is suffice to run lots of stuff...
Face it, we all use to use them...
A 400 Mhz machine with 128mb RAM is quite a lot of machine for what the average person wants it for:
1. Word processing
2. Calculator
3. Web browser
4. Lousy paint program
A majority of cycles are wasted with the user sitting there..
Here's an old Dell that meets your lofty needs
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewIte
For $200 you could get the keyboard, mouse and LCD monitor all in the nice form of a portable computer. Be it 500Mhz or so, Linux will run just fine.
What the hell does everyone need a 1Ghz or 2Ghz spec'd machine for? It produces tons of heat, typically noise too and eats up tons of electric with that huge power supply you all want...
had 1.5GHz+ Athlon, and mobo, in case, with 128k and PS for $89. No rebate. the CDROM, hard drive, and network card had all been free after rebate within a few weeks of the base system sale. So figure another $10 for tax and rebate postage and you're under $100 with a nice machine.
This is only sensible if you live near the Fry's store.
Consider the cost of driving your car a mile. It's likely close to 35 cents when all but your time is figured in. Drive 80 miles round trip to Fry's 3 times and you've spent another $84!
Hell, I couldn't sell my real pretty SGI Indy on ebay. The one kid who bid $14 didn't want to pay the $60 shipping for Indy, camera, kybd, mouse, and display. Maybe one of you dumpster divers will find it. I'll toss gently.
Hey:
Its great to ask this question, and I'm all for cheap hardware. But...given that hardware must be manufactured, consume raw materials etc. I would expect that the floor cost for hardware should _never_ go as low as the floor cost of software - especially after you get past some R&D point for both.
Can you say "monopoly"? It seems much clearer to me that software ought to have some fully commodified components and that the OS ought to be that component. Given that the world of software has (intelligently) landed on layered architectures, we'd expect to be spending money at the higher layers and have ever increasing commodification at the lower layers. Again...can you say monopoly?
Now...I"m not arguing that hardware should NOT fall under this rule, but....well....some costs associated with hardware are a given, and those costs will forever be higher than the "given" costs of software.
Just my 2cents.
Hmmm... you can get an old PC for 100 dollars off Craigslist for just about 100 dollars--you'll probably get a 500-800mhz P3 too...
Ballmer sold His xbox for 299 and people still bought it.
Compatible Motherboard
Athlon XP 1700+
128MB DDR Memory
20GB 7200RPM HDD
56x CDROM Drive
Floppy Drive
Mid-Tower Case (300W)
Keyboard & Mouse
Integrated Audio
Integrated Video & LAN
$229.91
I'm nobody's advertiser, find it yourself on pricewatch if you want it.
With eMagic from The First 20 Million is Always the Hardest
Odd movie, tries REALLY hard to appeal to the geeks, but its just entertaining to see Tiny and his social inadaptation.
Ok.
0 04/10/15/6414.htmln umber= 1177
4) The hard drive. Well I don't have enough money for a real hard drive. But for $9 I can get a 32 meg usb drive.e m=PCG20B D32
1) Fry's was offering this a couple of week's ago. A 2200+ Sempron with motherboard and onboard sound and ethernet. I got mine at the $59 price. http://www.netaffilia.com/ad/electronics/frys/i/2
But they did have $49 dollar version a couple week's back. Came with CPU fan.
2) $24 dollar case. Don't know if it would work with the above cpu and motherboard, but, what the hell
http://www.mypccity.com/proddetail.asp?line
3) 128 megs of so generic RAM that it bogles the mind for $18 dollars http://store.yahoo.com/digi4me/me121ddrpcd3.html
http://www.mypcgoodies.com/details.asp?it
So we put that on, with a ram disk, and something like Damn Small and you got your self a $100 computer. OK I'm a dollar off but I was close.
Ok I forgot about a video card. The best I got is $6 for a video card.
Ok so it doesn't include shipping and handling, but if I was in the biz I could sell it buy in volume and not get the shipping.
Thank you
The memory footprint of firefox and thunderbird are too large.
If they weren't so fat then older processors/memory buses would be able to handle them fine.
Link to Free Computers
The second half of the book describes very basic assembly proceedures for building a computer from scrounged parts and should be of no use to the hardware-savvy /. crowd. But the first half describes the business of getting parts and whole computers for NOTHING. Like it says in the blurb, I bought my first computer back in '90 and I've never bought one since. No lie.
These words are being typed on a P4 1.5ghz, 256megs memory, 60gig hd. Cost NOTHING. Maybe you won't do that good, but ANYBODY can get a free machine that will do just fine for writing, posting rubbish on /., or any other simple task.
The book also assumes you're gonna be running Windows. (Your free machine will invariably come preloaded with Windows. 98 is free and XP is rapidly getting that way.) Don't like Windows? Fine. Run Linux. THAT'S FREE TOO.
Is it fascism yet?
Ok right off the bat: does he actually mean, "soon there will be a $100 PC?" what with the trending down of file size due to compression and the deflation of adequate internet-usable pc hadware how could they not become $100?.. I mean....oh god it's all just FUD isn't it!?
:)
...ok i'm done reading the article.
let me acutally RTFriggin'A
There has to be...a $100 computer to go down-market in some of these countries. We have to engineer (PCs) to be lighter and cheaper,
sounds like the auto industry's way of stifling inovation to squeeze profits.
Ballmer said piracy of Microsoft's Windows and Office software in emerging markets has become a major concern for the software giant, especially among business users who can afford to pay for software.
i've always wondered. why would you want to pay for software over a programmer? Because It's cheaper, it's easier. But is it better?
Cheaper and Easier isn't always Better. (cheapest and really hard can be very good, I think you'll agree
"PCs are not selling to the lower end of the population in China and India. People buying machines there are relatively affluent. So...should the prices be lower? Not really. Until government and situational factors reduce piracy...those people...don't pay," Ballmer said.
Oh, they'll pay alright. one day, I'll make THEM PAY!!!! ahahahaha!!
Balmer didn't say that, I did.
But lower prices have become part of Microsoft's strategy for gaining market share in developing nations. In recent months, the software maker has announced plans to introduce low-cost "starter editions" of Windows XP into countries including India, Russia and Thailand. These versions will be bundled only with entry-level PCs and will not be available for retail sale.
are these guys friggin wizards of FUD or what!? Starter editions? What is redmond up to? I'm sure at the end thier intents are purely alrtuistic. But don't be suprised if the new office assitant is the Hypnotoad!
The Microsoft CEO bristled at the suggestion that Linux is gaining in popularity as a client operating system at the expense of Windows. "There's no appreciable amount of Linux on client systems anywhere in the world," he said.
how do you refute that? Maybe with that classic example of car companies looking out thier windows and seeing only american cars. Thus they think that there will only be american cars.
Just out of curiosity, do you think that microsoft actively pokes and prods linux for security holes? It would make sense wouldn't it?
Ballmer said that some governments have decided against using Linux after studying the costs involved. "You can sit here and read the drama stories and assume they are true. Paris said Linux was dramatically more expensive than Windows. In...Brazil, it's the same thing."
so france surrendered to microsoft, so what's new?
P.S. JK! I like the french! Thank you Fermat!
One exception is the city of Munich, Germany, which is planning a widespread Linux installation, Ballmer admitted. "Yes, we lost the city of Munich. But the fact that the same story gets told 65,000 times, and they are still diddling around to some degree...come on, where's the evidence?"
Seen this?:
http://www.engadget.com/entry/2994556245611989/
It's a sub-$250 pc (w/ monitor) running WinCE + XP extensions - actually intended for Russia, Mexico, India, other markets....
In the US, I'd like to be able to go to a 7-11 or Circle-K and rent one of these for $10/day if I needed to... Or something....
I used the Engadget link 'cuz of the cool photo...
There was uclinux and varients for Palm Computers, and there's a gbaunix for Gameboy Advance(Unix V on SIMH emulator) http://www.kernelthread.com/publications/gbaunix I haven't researched vnc for gameboy, but for screen real estate without a kludge, there's no way to beat a new xbox for $149. Ballmer of all people should know this.
$100 PCs might be possible, but they won't stop piracy. What you need is $20 copies of MS Office 97 Pro. At that price, everyone would pay for it.
I think it's silly that Ballmer's argument is basically "The reason everyone in the third world is stealing *our* stuff is that *their* stuff is too expensive."
"Lawyers are for sucks."
- Doug McKenzie
A new do-it-yourself kit here in sk.ca is $209.00cd or less for a 2.0ghz amd... I'm sure I could get better if I didn't get the case.
Qybix ----- I do not have a belief system; I'm an Anti-theist and proud of it! Saying that not believing in anything i
The word processor and destop publisher in GEOS (they may have been the same program) were surprisingly functional and WYSIWIG. I did most of my HS papers with that system on my C64.
(S(SKK)(SKK))(S(SKK)(SKK))
So, here's the question though: That may be the cost that you paid for it, but what was the cost to build it? For example, how much did it cost whoever to make that motherboard (raw parts + fab facility). Ditto for the CPU. We'll forget logistical challenges such as packaging, as that's not part of the computer.
I don't think you understood the challenge. Of course, I might not either.
~ Mike
Michael C. Hollinger
.. its all here ...
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Generally, the components that tend to carry close to zero cost after rebates are:
Motherboards
Hard Drives
Optical Drives
Sound Cards
Keyboards, Mice, etc.
Flash Memory Devices
However, the following components are rarely ever offered at substantial discounts:
Power Supply
CPU
RAM
Case
and of course, Windows.
I see no reason why everything could not be had for around $100, with a free OS, after all the rebates have settled. All you have to do is keep good records and be willing to check up on those who dont cough up the dough.
IMO, as good as it sounds, it really is a hassle to track down these things over time, unless you actually enjoy that type of thing. I personally see little point in it as pre-mades are actually coming out even cheaper than self-builts nowadays. They may not be at the $100 mark yet, but the components included end up far cheaper than if they were to be bought as parts, even with rebates.
About a year ago we finished a company-wide Citrix install, spread over 21 plants in 9 states. Believe me, we looked at every possible scenario for cheap client PCs, and we decided in the beginning to only buy new. We didn't want 1260 different used systems to support. What I realized is that a cheap PC, maybe even a $100 PC, could be built now because we're finally at a point that non-cutting edge chips and technology is still VERY fast. A 1.6GhZ P4 will be sufficient for probably 95% of todays users and probably 99.5% of business users. But, it wouldn't be a PC as you know it. You would have to sacrifice things. No more fancy, upgradable case, for starters. Dell can't spend $8 on a case if they're trying to sell a computer for $100. But why upgrade anyway? I think you'll see more USB ports and less built-in flashy things. Why put built-in wireless in a $100 PC? Save that for the higher-end models. Same thing goes for wild amounts of storage. If they put in 40GB how many people would really need more? If they do, they have a USB2.0 port for one. It should probably have a Burner, but those are so cheap now it hardly matters. But if you want a second drive? Buy it A la carte and plug it in. Sadly, there are no low end machines out that right now that I feel give you the best value for your dollar as todays high-end machines, which is just crazy. I understand that hardware and computer companies don't want to cut the legs out of their high-end PC sales, but you'd think someone would want to tap the market. If you wondering what we did for out client PC's, we decided to upgrade about 75% of our office-based PCs and we moved the old machines, after a 30min tune-up and mass-imaging, to the factories. We faced the fact that we'd have to buy all new computers and the the factory-floor citrix users would never need 2GhZ of power.
Many of us receive free magazines. Why not a free PC?
Perhaps streaming banners, perhaps AOL like marketing, perhaps whatever we'll find useful and that can be profitably provided for free. How about giving away a PC that is designed to automate your personal finances; That knows what sort of mutual funds you might want; That prompts you through financial planning?
Yeah, there's privacy. But then there's convenience too. And if it comes from a trusted source then perhaps you won't care. That trusted source could be Google. But, it's more likely that a new company will be born that will follow a consistent series of messages, actions, and product lines that will garner your trust. Such a company could knock Google from the roost.
There's certainly room for a company that you'll trust more than you'll trust the typical mortgage company, the typical bank or (oh my) the typical credit card company.
Required workstation components (for 20+ PCs):
And finally a server with:
If, however, you already have a pretty decent desktop (1-3Ghz, 512Mb-1Gb RAM) you could always set up LTSP terminals for your kids, wife/SO, etc. for free. It isn't too hard to find some business or school that runs Windows and can't use 600Mhz PCs anymore much less 150Mhz boxes.
~Pricewatch.com - Celeron 700 128KB cache FCPGA Socket 370 (18$) - Intel® BESUS3 (SU810) SOCKET 370 mboardIntel 810 Chipset w/VIDEO/SOUND/2USB SUPPORTIntel CELERON (NO Pentium III 133MHz bus) (10$) - ATX Mid Tower Case + 430W P4/AMD PW. 11bay. Fit Micro and ATX MB. Extra Mid Case with handle. Front door and USB1.0. Screwless for cards (28$) - OEM 48x 7200KB/second IDE CD-ROM Drive (9$) - 30GB 5400 RPM (35$) - 10/100 VIA Chipset NIC (3$) total: 103$ (no shipping)
An XBOX is basically an appliance PC. That's what a sub-$100 PC will look like. There have to be millions of identical ones, with no options, so the manufacturing line just runs and runs.
your hard drive is going to burn up it's bearings from vibration.....
-pyrrho
I'm kinda new here... there were paragraphs in that before I posted! I should used preview...
I know there are a million of these sites out there, but I've actually purchased stuff from these guys before (besides the fact they are local for me, no shipping!) Here's one for $100, Dell Tower that's a P3 550, 128mb, and a 10gig drive. They even have a _6_ month warranty for any issues that may arise. You can also upgrade the memory for another 25 or so. That'll run a lot of flavor's of Linux for CHEAP.
A movie called 'How I made my first $20 million' asked this same exact question. The difference being the people in this movie had to include the monitor, keyboard, and mouse in their design. Worth watching at least once.
Believe me, if I started murdering people, there would be none of you left.
-must be available in bulk, no discounted end-of-stock -must be able to play DVDs (for educational use) at decent rate as well as other common video (eg.
and thing less than this is useless (DVD was included so that it can count on replacing the TV they may have and many resources as available primarily on DVDs such as encyclopedia).
Really the only way I see this happening is with some thin-client solution.
Your CPU is not doing anything else, at least do something.
Throw in a network cable for half a buck's worth of parts.
Total cost BEFORE cd-burner/dvd-player*:
Motherboard: $35
128MB RAM: $20
4.3GB HD: $14
Case w/ power supply: $22
Floppy drive: $6.50
Ethernet cable: $0.50
Total: $98
Linux: Free, in both senses of the word
Look on Steve Ballmer's Face when he reads this on
Um, Microsoft, when you get the license cost of Windows down to $1.99, you too can play this game.
*internet cafe's don't need CD players on every machine.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
plenty of tossed out systems running plenty fast enough to run something like AROS - Amiga Research Operating System
Its all about a small and efficient OS to bring life back to old hardware. Neither of which linux or windows is.
And it even has standardized user friendly level IPC, of which neither windows or linux yet has.
But AROS is currently lacking developers contributing to it.... and it is FOSS...
If you google the case you will find that Paris did something very smart. They got a 60% discount right off the bat and put MS on constructive notice that a monopoly will not be tolerated. They are starting pilots with a few hindred people with the stated intention to switch to OO.o gradually.
MS can't do a thing as any lock-in attmept will only hasten the switch.
Same with Military in Singapore. They are switching one third to OO.o and leaving the balance on Office 97. Again the mantra is we will switch if you do not open the file-format and we will not upgrade.
MS will be slowly but surely f**ked, it will just take a few years.
Help fight continental drift.
Balmer wants a $100 computer.
I guess he's hoping when Longhorn is released in 2020, Windows will be affordable because people can get the hardware for cheap (of course Windows will probably cost about $10,000/license then).
...better than the dump go ask around major cooperations and schools. Last year my dad (who teaches computer repair and networking) and I picked up something like $2000 worth of working sun equipment simply because the school didn't know how to run them. Plus we received about 40 touch screen tough books with a licensed version of win 2000 for free along with a few Toshiba laptops (an insurance company was upgrading their laptops and throwing out all the old ones.) None of them were blazing fast but they were all good enough for day to day use and all cost absolutely nothing.
Well, the mouse driver is open source, just fork that and you're set....
There: Something at a specific location.
Their: Owned by someone.
Please make sure your english compiles.
I do research on this (among other things) for a living.
With current component prices, even using the cheapest of the cheapest parts, you can't get there if you're building an identifiable PC using sustainable components -- IE something manufactured for the market rather and an opportunistic purchase that you can't count on.
Cheapest x86 CPUs available (not inventory blowouts, but manufacturered at thin margins) -- OEM price of about $20. Cheapest chip sets, $15. Ditto hard disk, $40. Ditto optical drive, $18. You're almost at $100 in cost there, and we've not touched a case or RAM yet, yet alone the motherboard manufacturing costs, support chips, system assembly.
If a $100 PC was do-able, those $200 Walmart PCs would be $100 Walmart PCs.
If you redefine the computer, eliminate any signficant removable or internal storage and use a small amount of flash to boot-load remotely, use a tiny memory footprint, and use a tiny non-x86 integrated CPU/system logic device, like an ARM or something similar... in other words, if you build something that looks a heck of a lot like a PDA without a screen -- then it's marginally do-able. But all you're really doing is moving the high-cost components upstream.
Think back to a sinclair ZX-80 or something similar... that's do-able today, with better performance and way more memory.
A box using new components that runs a fat OS with a disk drive, it's not possible today for $100. A thin linux (or windows CE, for that matter) client booting a remote copy of the OS... on the edge of possible, but it's not a PC.
Ok my best attempt would be based on an EPIA, all these prices are from very quick searches, so I reckon buying in reasonable bulk and reselling it would be no problem to go under $100. I haven't included a case because the price for that should be pretty low if you were actually making these, so a retail case wouldn't be a good comparison, plus you don't REALLY need one:
epia 800MHz $87.50
128mb DDR RAM $25
20GB hdd $32
PSU $11
Total: $155.50
That gets you sound, graphics, LAN, CPU, unless I'm missing something you should be able to plug it together, stick a screwdriver across the front panel connector and away you go. Plus it would be pretty small. No CD-ROM, but you could preinstall, if you need a CD-ROM it's not going to add too much to the price. Better than all these suggestions to buy second hand when that is specifically excluded, I guess that a paragraph is too much to read before you post.
$100 for an el cheapo PC running some crippled version of Windows?
Heck! 100$ is the cost for the extra RAM or hard drive I have to insert each time M$ issues another faulty service pack!
Steve Ballmer might not have accounted for all those kinds of non Windows operating systems which would install perfectly on older/weak systems.
Why? Someone who only wants to/can only pay $100 for a PC likely doesn't have these around. Someone who does have these around, probably doesn't want a $100 PC.
A computer is more than the box. Input and output devices are kind of required to actually do anything with it.
Most people (think "grandma") just need a browser and the ability to view various file formats, maybe a free word processor (whichc could be done w/ DHTML anyway), etc.. all the storage could be attached to gmail or msn or something. They just need an applicance that can do 800x600 (at least), webbrowser with flash, maybe a printer and/or webcam. A simple appliance could probably be built, not much more processing involved that what a router can do - only graphics and sound on top of that... I bet that would go for $100, and most grandmas want to just plug it in, turn it on, and play bridge. The whole OS would be on ROM, with maybe jumpdrives(USB) for local storage... 0 storage to start (or attach it to "web storage")
meh
He's the one who needs it. Microsoft can design, develop, manufacture and sell it. With an embedded version of Windows, optimized for security, stability and performance that can run on the platform. Fits their "take over the world" paradigm very well.
Microsoft has already shown how this game can be done provided people are willing to or locked into paying you for software: The XBox! You can also get them on eBay for around $125 used, and with a $10 modchip and a little soldering ingenuity, you can run one of several XBox linux distros. You could, to boot, also argue that you save by not having to buy a monitor if you already have a TV, plus you get machine that games a lot better than a $100 DIY or Refurb too, when you turn off the modchip!
And Linux runs on it.
Value is perceived...
Your prices are way too high.
nic < $10 (it's not onboard?)
Floppy <$5 (what for anyway?)
CD-RW <$30 (It'll read DVD's too)
Case <$20 (includes 300W Power supply)
Those prices are to the public, btw. I bet you can get a system built for <$100 if you shop at wholesalers. Since you will be reselling these, you don't pay sales tax and may get a larger discount. Given a large enough order you can get an even larger discount.
Pick up a used Xbox and do a Soft-mod got a linux computer for as little as $120.00
Just buy an used computer. With used PCs being so freaking cheap, it's almost a no-brainer to snap one up if you're looking for an cheap machine.
I was looking for a cheap box to use as my web server etc. So, I bought a simple HP box that had a 550MHz Celeron, A CD-ROM drive, a 5GB HD (I later upgraded to 80GB), and 192MB RAM. I threw Debain on there and it's a flawless server, and it hasn't gone down once. The only time it's been off has been when I was moving it. It hosts 3 sites consisting of 3 WordPress installations, 1 phpBB installation, 1 Textpress installation, 2 Gallery installations, and 1 calendar thingy mo-bob.
So don't waste your time trying to put together a $100 machine from new parts. It was a fun story in The First $20 Million Is Always The Hardest, in reality, it's sort of a joke. I'm not saying that it's totally stupid, I just think it's a waste of time and effort.
You'll end up with a junky piece of crap that will be about as reliable as a Geo Metro.
mine didn't even have a floppy drive, but it did have a cassette tape player interface. And loaded with 16K (that's right, K) DRAM, expandable to 64K (that's still K). It booted to ROM BASIC. But we used it to develop a security system. Not much other practical use.
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. Albert Einstein
No local storage, only MSN.
Applications (MS Office, et.al.) available
via web services on a monthly subscription.
No problems with OS theft, or IP not
protected by strict DRM (Trusted Computing).
Lock-in to the Microsoft product family.
This is either a Microsoft wet dream for new
revenue streams, or their last hurrah.
I can buy used computers for 50 Euro in the local market. If I give 100-150 Euro I can even buy an old laptop. A 17" XGA monitor can be found for 40 Euro.
There IS a worldwide market for computers that suck as bad as the 5-year-old computer you just donated to Goodwill, provided the cost is low enough.
Heck, $100 might be too much for some. I'm betting there's a market for $50 pcs using 60Hz 14" monitors, a mouse, keyboard, and a web browser. Gee, we had this in 1994 on '486s and 68040s. Linux still runs on those platforms.
The street value for a complete 10-year-old system is well under $40. Ship a few thousand of these overseas and let them set up some net-cafes.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
A while back a vendor (tiger direct I think) had a 850 MHz cyrix chip soldered on a motherboard. Free after rebate. I added a 256 mb kingston chip which was free after rebate. I bought a $29 delivered case/ps off of ebay. No floppy and I initially plugged in an IDE cdrom drive to load knoppix. Had it been preloaded I wouldn't have needed to. So really the only thing left is the cost of a hd. I think I've seen decent hard drives for $60 after rebate. (I used an old drive)
I think it can be done. This machine isn't fast though.
The man who trades freedom for security does not deserve nor will he ever receive either. - Benjamin Franklin
You've got it all wrong.
Windows is a great bargain, at only 99$
Just ask Steve Ballmer.
What are you complaining about? You get a lot of programs, like Write and Paint, not to mention Control Panel... but unbelievably also Reversi! (Though I am *extremely* puzzled by his closing words)
I live here in Bangkok. The Thais I work with don't like using pirate software because of the lack of support for it. What's selling like hotcakes is low cost PC's running Turbolinux (recent kernel, fully translated GUI, and terrific support - in Thai). The sellers offer windows, but the price is simply too high, and the average Thai has to struggle with windows interfaces they can't read, if they haven't had any formal training in computer literacy.
This is why last years government connectivity initiative was distributing low cost machines at cost running Turbolinux.
When I see windows boxes, they're in internet cafes whose primary focus is gaming, and they're running '98 or 2000. And that's the news from the street here: Mr. Ballmer just doesn't get it.
$400 pc with Linux ~ $400
or
$100 pc with Windows XP $299 ~ $400
Yeah, we really have to get that outrageous hardware down in price, otherwise how could we expect people to pay for those expensive software bits!
It's 10 PM. Do you know if you're un-American?
There's already a $150 PC out there--the XBox.
If you're method is so good,
1. Why didn't you just tell us instead of spending 4 paragraphs beating around the bush?, and
2. Why hasn't the great secret been known on the web for years?
Yes, you can get a free PC if you rob someone's house, or scrounge through the trash behind failed dot-coms, or set up phony charities which purport to send computers to needy children, but other than that you have to pay at least 20-some bucks on ebay to get a used beater.
Oh, and this Simpsons quote may be germaine:
Well, stick around, 'cause I'm gonna tell you the twelve savings secrets Wall Street *won't* tell you. Then, I'll show you the three ways to get back to the highway, [sotto:] including one shortcut those Wall Street fat cats don't want you to know! [audience cheers]
My friend found a computer at a garage sale for under $100.
What I'm saying is that you'll get more bang for your buck if you go with a used PC. In my friend's case, the monitor and all peripherals were included.
MSI K7TPRO motherboard -$46
Geforce 4 MX440 - $45
CDROM - $26
256MB PC2100 - $69
Case w 300W PS - $38
Total = $224
Converted to US$ = 183.00
Close... Need to find cheaper memory and video.
Doesn't help the Canadian dollar is at a 10+ year high. Of course NO HD so you need to run Knoppix.
http://www.thrift-king.com/
http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=IBMNF1 000-1B&cat=SYS
:/
compgeeks is amazing sometimes p3-600, 128mb, 10gb, cdrom
It's even got a black case! Too bad it's got "IBM" on it too.
Problem: Microsoft's $300 operating system and $600 office suite are being installed on computers without Microsoft being paid their licensing fees.
Cause: Computers are too expensive.
Solution: Hardware manufacturers must lower the costs of their systems, so more money can be spent on Microsoft software.
Interpretation: Ballmer wants hardware manufacturers to bear the cost of competition. Ballmer either is being deceitful and dishonest, or he simply is delusional and in denial. Regardless, the disconnect in his logic is mind bending. He simply cannot fathom that the solution to his problem is a $30 operating system and a $60 office suite.
Microsoft's offer of a crippled Windows-Lite (for OEMs only) to a few asian markets at a reduced-price is wholly inadequate. Microsoft ultimately will be forced to sacrifice some, if not most, of their 85% monopoly margins to compete with FOSS world wide. And it's going to hurt...
Moral, in this game knowledge is power and for now $100 PC's are just there to piss people like us off at the rest of the world.
The Property of One's : "The Oneitude is directly proportional to the Colditude of the one." - S.B.
Somethis smells fishy about your story. ;-)
BTW I am writing this on dual opteron 250
The Ethernet connector costs extra. The GameCube WITHOUT ethernet is $99. So the ethernet adapter knocks the price over the limit.
Plus CD's won't fit in it...
It will be shaped like an Aztec pyramid and it will be released when they open their new store in Teotihuacan.
The Modded Xbox is almost a viable solution, but for a more ground up design:
$18 - Celeron 700MHz 66MHz 128K FCPGA CPU OEM (socket 370)
$25 - ASUS MEW-AM Mainboard Socket 370 supporting Intel Celeron 300~533+ Onboard sound/video
$40 - 1 512mb Stick of PC100 Ram $58 if 2 256mb sticks are required.
$3 - Encore - 10/100 VIA Chipset NIC
$24 - COMP-USA ATX Case w 250W Power Supply.
$2 - Generic heatsink
Total = $112
I thought it important to load up on the RAM as compensation for the trailing edge CPU. Granted, you won't be playing Doom 3 on this machine, but it'll do most anything you want in terms of office support, though I'm not entirely sure how linux compatible the hardware is. Still, a decent machine. Prices include shipping, unless I missed something.
All prices courtesy of Pricewatch.com
You need a FREE iPod Nano
You could probably get a computer from 10 years ago or so for pocket change. That's new by, say, geological standards...
http://www.ebaumsworld.com/ballmerwindows.html
Palm Zire 21s are under $100 straight from the manufacturer. I'm pretty sure you can add a keyboard, the monitor's included, and you don't need a mouse. What requirements am I forgetting?
-Rich
Office Depot sells them.
Now where did I put my abacus?
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
most average users, read non slashdot, non geek users. only use their computers to browse the internet, type a paper, build a spreadsheet, play solitare, and watch a few movies. all of these can be achieved by a system with a 400 mhz cpu and 32/64 megs of ram, if you drop the movie requirement probably 100 mhz cpu with 16/32 megs of ram. this is all assumming the right OS not necesarily Linux, windows, MacOS as well as well written applications. I always laugh when I here the online crowd say a system needs to be at least 1 ghz, 2ghz etc, because that is only taking into account bloatware apps. what I'd Like to see is a simple dummy proof piece of hardware with modem/ethernet with OS, word processor, spread sheet, web/email, multimedia player, maybe a couple simple games, all stored in say 256 megs of flash.provide a dvd/cd-rw drive with a simple app to be able to treat the rewrite capability of the drive as easily as it were a floppy. and provide a simple way to get system updates. I know it sounds like set top but no one company seems to make settop with all these features in simple to use package at a sub 150 dollar price tag. market it to schools, libraries, third world countries, etc and someone could make bundle if done well
It was my understanding that hardware manufacturers already have extremely slim margins (on budget items, anyway; I'm not talking about your GeForce 6800GT). I'd certainly like to see a $100 PC, but I don't think it could currently be built with off-the-shelf components unless it was at a loss.
It would probably be possible to build a substantially cheaper PC by sacrificing modularity--the motherboard would come off the assembly line with a low-power CPU, memory, network controller, and video card soldered on. A couple USB ports would be provided for expansion. (Hmm... this is starting to sound like an Xbox.)
In any event, making hardware involves real raw materials and manufacturing costs, whereas reproducing software has zero incremental cost. Sure there's a lot of R&D up front, but that gets paid back after a year or two when your sales are as big as Microsoft's. Today there's no real reason Microsoft couldn't sell Windows 98 to bargain-basement system builders for $5--that would discourage piracy.
If a well-translated, supported, possibly-stripped-down version of MS-Windows XP could be had legally for $20, would that sell well over there?
How about if it were $5? $1? Free?
Would Balmer have to pay people to use it?
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Balmer totally missed the point when he made this statement. Microsoft believes hardware should be free and we should pay for software. However, they are a little late to the game, because software is already free and in use by hundreads of thousands of machines around the world (linux!!!) The major box vendors (Dell, Sony, HP, etc) are some of Microsofts biggest customers, if I am any of these vendors why would I want to do business with a company that wants to put me out business?? Wouldn't I rather partner up with an industry that says put your money into hardware and get your software for free?? If PC's really go for $100.00 or less, all of the major box vendors will leave the market and sell only those things that can make them money, like printers, switches and tv's. This leaves all the boxes to be made overseas. And those companies overseas don't necessarily have to use Microsoft products, they might consider using one of those free operating systems. Microsoft needs to stop thinking they rule the world, and get real.
You and your team have just five days to complete the build.
But....it's gotta be tested by Jessie James.
. Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
I'll even pay for shipping.
I wasn't referring to a slow computer really, more along the lines of poor quality RAM and no name boards and drives and so on.
If you can't see the value in jet powered ants you should turn in your nerd card. - Dunbal (464142)
Nah. CD's cost ~$15, CD players ~$75. Similar cost, similar ratio, and people pirate the shit out of them.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
This sounds like soooo many failed projects -- rush off an implement before you have the specs...
What do you want a PC to do? Web browse and mail? Graphic manipulation? Render MPEG files? Play the latest game?
Bah, you can't answer the real question until you have it.
This issue is a bit more complicated than you think.
Oh, add $20 for a 20gb hdd, $36 for a 30gb. Brings the total to $132 assuming the cheaper option.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
Steve, I've got a Commodore 64 I'll set you for $100!
Ed R.Zahurak
You know, oblivion keeps looking better every day.
But how'd you ground the motherboard?
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
I got a refurbished IBM PII-400 for my grandmother for $70, and a 17 inch monitor for another $70. Ethernet, sound (and speakers in the box) and everything else (except mouse and keyboard, an additional $25, but that's not necessary for the "competition") needed for use. It does everything she needs to (and then some). Hell, if it wasn't a flat-box (not a tower, the other kind that you sit your monitor on), it would be enough for just about everyone in my family (I'm the only exception, planning on spending nearly $5000 for a PowerMac G5)
And this is Canadian $$ too.
Compare the prices of hardware from 6 years ago and today. While hardware capabilities have grown by orders of magnitude, the "32-bit shell on an 8-bit OS" hasn't changed much (except for CPU-hogging purtiness).
Let's see Ballmer offer WinXP Pro for $10, then he can talk about a $100 computer.
Waitasec, WinXP costs $199, $299 for the corp edition. Win2k, last time I checked, costed $99, so we're talking Win2k, on a machine made from $1 of components.
But seriously, enough of the monopoly price jokes. You might be able to pull it off with linux, A gig or two of flash memory, 64meg of real memory, a small powersupply, an ITX mobo and a power-efficient motherboard with a built in ethernet jack, runnin' a stripped down version of linux...in a cardboard box case.
Now, if we can all fit that into say, something the size of a nintendo...w0000, home-sized cluster computing! Just get a bookshelf, fill er' up with junked parts from the dumpster of your local tech shop, and away you go.
Candy-Coated Knowledge
This is Insightful?
Obviously, people of lower incomes need to prioritize food and maybe shelter, and for some of the the costs of thing like electricity is a bigger issue than the cost of a PC, if those above this line a can get a PC for $100 and start to better themselves, how is this a problem? You're missing the whole give a man a fish / teach a man to fish paradigm, or perhaps you think people people should want to live in squalor, or you think the poor should get software freebies.
Whatever it is you're saying, its not clear and its apparently quite wrong.
Resumes that don't come out of a word processor get passed over. Anyone who can't used the latest software in place at a company is going to get fired. No company can function without data management they way they could 20 years ago. Welcome to the bottom line of this new world we've created.
Ballmer is approaching the problem as a way to sell the shit he calls an OS by exploiting the problem that is a win for his company and a win for the poor. He's not forcing the poor to use it any more than he's forcing you, and he has every right to charge for it. You however, are glazing over the problem in an insultingly arrogant fashion by your presumption that third world people would be better off having to continue living in third world conditions, or that they have a right to pirate software--just like you used to do.
Either way, I disagree.
The key difference between a Programmer and a Senior Programmer is that one of them is Mexican.
You can put together a $100 PC if you scour special deals and rebates, but I suspect most of those are loss leaders, which means you can't sell these PCs on a sustainable basis (unless Microsoft is willing to sell PCs themselves as a loss leader). But $200 PC can be bought, already assembled. Fry's runs an ad for a $200 PC every now and then, the configuration varies slightly, today it's an Athlon 2000+ with 128MB RAM, 40GB disk, Ethernet, CD, and Linspire Linux preinstalled.
And add 21.95 a monh for AOHell for 24 months
Obviously *I* misplaced my personal CPU. Oops.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
combo is $110 plus case
Considering that the weight (if one could call it that) of WinCE is behind ARM, the use of WinCE for this product is pretty dopey.
These Geode tablets have been promoted since Nat Semi owned Geode (a few years back). Geode has pretty much gone nowhere and does not look like it will change. I'm quite suprised that AMD didn't rather put their effort into their MIPS device or license ARM and make an ARM device.
It is interesting to note that AMD is one of very few major CPU vendors that does not use ARM for their mobile/low-power 32-bit stuff.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
I should revoke ALL of your geek licenses :)
& f=1
http://www.pricewatch.com/h/prc.aspx?i=335&a=5215
Scroll down, there is an AMD2100+ complete system. Keyboard and mouse too! $105. I know >$100 but sell the keyboard/mouse for $5 to make it even!
Crashing every hour sucks.
So does losing data.
Poor manufacturing quality can do that.
Windows 98 users won't notice the difference.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
Microsoft's read-between-the-lines-to-see-it plan is to do exactly this, to use the XBox (or its sequels) as a productivity center. I'm surprised it has taken them so long to give it a go, maybe they're looking for the XBox2 to run Office effiently? Anyway, imagine having software leased from Microsoft that you'll download to your local xbox2. Or, better yet, your Media Center system acts as an application server projecting applications to your portable devices and xbox3's.
With this Microsoft controls everything, and that's just what they want.
Damien
This isn't the first person to want a cheap computer that runs on Linux.
You don't need the hard drive because it can run a bootable copy of Linux like the ThinkNIC did.
The ThinkNIC did have a 16MB Flash Card on an IDE controller to store minimal settings data for internet connections.
Basically when you booted the computer it loaded the previous internet settings or gave you the options for a new connection. Dynamic settings (Cable), PPPoE (DSL), Dialup and Netzero (which at the time was free). After the connection was establisbed it loaded the browser automatically.
But Knoppix, and like distros, can now automatically load a complete, fully featured, desktop. Email can be web based.
It might be everything you need.
Using conventional components could be possible, but there really is no point. Most of the "appliances" that have already been release ran in VCR sized PC cases - which would still be a good idea.
Power supplies could be smaller (100Watt). There is no need for Hard drive or floppy expansion - all that is needed is a generic CDROM and USB expansion for external drives.
And its entirely possible to produce a desktop ATX motherboard with onboard components and an embedded processor and memory for dirt cheap pricing. VIA is doing it now but they are expensive. A cheaper company could bid for the contract (like PC Chips).
The great thing about this PC is that you could release new features and software packages all by upgrading the existing bootable CD. You could even make it a DVD ROM drive for increased storage.
I just hope that they don't do something stupid like throw a low speed processor in the system. Something around the 200Mhz range like the ThinkNIC would really be horrible.
"Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality." -Jules de Gautier
i don't know why it posted me AC. i'm not.
Rise up in the cafeteria and STAB them with your plastic forks!
You took the words right out of my mouth.... I've got a little Internet gateway (NAT) box running on an old P90 with 28Meg of RAM, and I can even run an Apache server, DHCP and a couple of other server utilities, and it's humming along very nicely, but I think if I tried to bring up X, even at VGA resolution, I'd be sitting there for a week waiting for the swap file! You can run great little Linux servers on bone-yard hardware, but not desktops.
Actually, I did build a FC2 system a little while ago based on an AMD K6-2 chip and 128Meg RAM, and it did "run", but it was painfully slow. I could even bring up Firefox and OO at the same time, if I went out to get a cup of coffee while it was loading. So, technically, yes you could build a usable system on 128Meg, but you wouldn't want to spend too much time sitting in front of it.
Your Servant, B. Baggins
From a guy who makes his money not from inventing new ideas but from selling and reselling the ideas that he paid someone else to think up for him (Despite the fact that many ideas are now becoming free, see FOSS).
So this guy wants physical property to be cheap/free, but intellectual property to be more controlled and more expensive.
It's ludicrous.
I am government man, come from the government. The government has sent me. -- G.I.R.
Well, especially the fumes...
"What in the name of Fats Waller is that?"
"A four-foot prune."
I agree with the parent post. Not only that we shouldn't sacrifice our profits for hardware but we shouldn't try and save a few bucks for cheaper hardware which may die on us.
Ballmer can ask for whatever he wants but the last thing he wants is a $100 pc with no-name hardware that will end up going in flames cause the PSU rails were going berserk.
Lower your damn O/S price and then we might try and build a pc for $200 which will have a longer lifespan.
Power Supply is the heart of the pc. Never go for the cheapest no matter what the situation is. A no-name PSU can die on you anytime if the rails are too fluxuating. My friend had to suffer seeing his unreal tournament cd blow up TWICE in his cd-rom due to the PSU that provided too much wattage to the cd-rom which exploded (with a pak sound!).
The ram has to be something that has to work from beginning to end. How many times have I heard stories of new ram being bought and failing under workload? Why go thru the hassle of testing many dimms and returning them non-stop when a few bucks more can get you cheap priced qualityram like ValueRam.
Motherboard, well it's the backbone. It has to support everything that works under heavy load and that demands wattage from the "suppose-to-be" quality power supply. Just get one that has a company that offers support and that works by providing new bios versions or whatever drivers.
The rest is up to you but if I was him, I'd find and suggest ways to lower the price of the software to have that very same software run on higher-quality hardware.
I don't know where you are getting your prices from (maybe 1996) but Dell will sell a perfectly cabable machine for less than $500, with a 15" flat panel monitor!. Ala carte, a 15" flat panel will cost one $200 by itself. Personally, I still build my own, but when someone asks for help choosing a PC, I just point them at Dell.
The force that blew the Big Bang continues to accelerate.
He wants a $100, hell windows is more expensive than the PC.
It would be easy to get a system for around $100 bones with linux, but to do it with windows? out of the question.
Pluralitas non est ponenda sine neccesitate
I tried fc2 on an old 64 meg PII awhile ago. I had to do a few tricks just to get it to install. Logging into X with gnome and nautilus running was about at the limits of its useable capabilities. I could run mozilla, but it was very, very slow.
This was a machine that I used to use every day just a couple of years ago, and it was adequate (but a little slow) then.
-jim
This linux machine is $109....
o du ct_info.php?products_id=83
http://gumstix.com/oscommerce-2.2ms2/catalog/pr
$21 Rosewill 184-Pin 128MB DDR PC-3200, Model RW400/128 - Retail
$26 PCChips "M811LU" KT266A Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket A CPU -RETAIL
$10.75 POWMAX 320W Power Supply for Intel and AMD systems Model "VP-320ATX" -RETAIL
$41 AMD Athlon 1.33 GHz, 266MHz FSB, 256K Cache Processor - OEM
Total: $98.75
Quick notes, I didn't buy a case so don't step on it. Also, I didn't buy a heatsink or fan so it'll only run for about 12 seconds. Also, you need to boot off the lan. Also, you won't be able to see anything, and not because the processor poofed, but also it has no video card.
For full good system, I did it once for about 220 bucks. Harddrives and cases pah! Who needs them. My system will turn on for $98.75!
It is no longer uncommon to be uncommon.
Part of the cost of all of this stuff is in Gov and import charges.
An all-in-one MoBo, CPU an RAM is easy, boot off a CD-ROM or flash device and work it as a thin client or just as a localised multi media box. So why not have the ISP provide more than an internet connection? why not have a central app server for a neighbourhood? That will make it cheap, decrease Virus problems, allow easy updates, drop user problems to almost zero (cause they cant fk with the system) Just a simple monthly subscription gets you all of the basic services, secure remote or local storage, and local or cheap remote bulk printing.
There was an unknown error in the submission.
a VIA C3 and a cheap plastic case from Taiwan. 20-40 GB HDD.
Uhm.. yes.. it's doable.
I was in India over the summer, and I visited one of my cousins who sells PCs from a small shop in Bangalore. Most people over there buy $200-$400 PCs, because that equates to 10,000 to 20,000 rupees. Farmers and laborers (75% of Indian population) make 50 rupees per day, so only the upper class city dwellers can afford PCs. Still, 25% of 1 billion is 250 million people. Would you pay $100-$200 for software on a $200-$400 PC? No. So free or pirated software rules in India, and will continue to do so for the forseeable future.
It's not reasonable for Ballmer to expect Indians (or others in the developing world) to pay $100 for a copy of XP, unless he can magically make the average Indian earn $40,000 per year rather than $3000. Also, keep in mind that in India, electricity costs more and a UPS is mandatory, so funds available to purchase hardware and software are less.
Even at $200-$400, hardware costs far outweigh labor costs in India. In the US, computers under $200 are not even worth the time to sell them or fix them, given that any qualified PC tech costs $60-$80/hour. So all the sub-$200 class PC components get junked.
This leads to an interesting business opportunity. If there was an efficient means of accumulating all the junk components, they could be shipped by sea container to India, where PC techs could sort out and re-sell the working parts. It costs about $4000 to ship a 20x10x10 ft. container to India from the US. So, you'd need to collect twenty $200 PCs or the equivalent to cover shipping costs. Since once the parts get to India, labor is almost free, the only other cost is gathering the components together in the US. A large corporation might have the means to do this cheaply, however. Maybe large corps should partner with Indian salvage companies to get rid of their old computers. They might make some money rather than paying to have them disposed, and also, Indians could get their $100 PCs for checking Hotmail.
"ebay.com" ... ok may be 2 words.
If NetBSD is allowed, would a toaster do?
cpghost at Cordula's Web.
Ballmer says "We need a $100 PC".
We all know that he wants to further his own business with the hundred dollar albatross, it would be terribly naive of us to think any differently.
However, we are going out right now and trying to make this come true for him. I see links to newegg all over this board.
Fuck him, if he wants a $100 PC, let him pump the R&D money and in and come out with one. Then when he's done we'll put linux on it.
scott king
I built a machine with all brand new parts about a year and a half ago for $150.
Most parts came from NewEgg, mostly closeout sale items:
-AOpen micro-ATX case with 200W power supply
-Biostar mobo with audio/video/lan integrated
-1.1GHz Celeron "Tualatin" cpu
-256MB PC133 sdram
-cheapest no-name cdrom drive, no floppy
-40GB WD hard drive on sale at Best Buy, $39 after rebate.
-a genuine Intel heatsink salvaged for free from a junked P3-800, but with the fan removed. It's adequate for passive cooling on the 1.1GHz Celeron since the power supply fan right next to it pulls enough air over the fins.
Running Linux of course... it's my internet firewall/router/mailserver/webserver machine and has run flawlessly since I built it. Nearly dead-silent too with only the power supply fan running in it and the hard drive to make any noise.
In the Ballmer article it states:
> But lower prices have become part of Microsoft's strategy for gaining market share in developing nations.
For over a decade, in the early years of Microsoft, they have been making piracy of their OS and Office software easy. This was a vital and intended strategy for them in order to firmly establish a marketshare dominance.
When the average user gets accustomed to (pirated) Microsoft products, this encourages businesses to use Microsoft products since most employees already have the skills in using Microsoft products. Microsoft then proceeds to enforce BUSINESSES to have legal copies of their software while still encouraging private users to pirate their products.
As you can see, their strategy worked. They are basically doing the same thing now with developing nations. And they will be successful unless the respective governments intervene.
You can have them both for $100. Unless you want to run Doom3 at full speed, why not just buy (or get for free) someone's throwaway when they upgrade for the newest game? I have a 166 MHz Pentium laptop that runs Linux just fine. It was given to me. Maybe this is what Gates meant when he said PCs will be free in the future? Our demand just may end up being oversupplied.
Oh, btw, cell phones and pda's are at around $100, and they are 'computers' (CPU, video, etc) so for a $100 computer, you'd need a cheaper OS. I don't think he gets that. Why am I going to pay $100 for a computer, then pay $300 for office and excel and powerpoint?
Only 'flamers' flame!
Does slashdot hate my posts?
Try getting that for $100
Problems with your estimate in order
1. Will that memory work on a i810e chipset? Crucial lists only 256meg simms being as low as $79.99 per 256meg pc133. Other sites reccomends "8x8, 16x8 DRAM Chips Only" Chances are you won't find this in your grab bag.
2. Does this actually include shipping, just because pricewatch says it does doesn't mean it is so. Notice the little "NEW. BUY 1 FOR $4.63" for your NIC. I also notice that they "reccomend" double package protection for $1.99. They also have a 99cent handeling fee. In other words $4.99
$31.07 CPU $22 + $9.07 {www.arsenalpc.com}
$24.95 motherboard {justdeals.com}
$158.00 2-256mb low density pc100 (2*$79) www.1stchoicememory.com
$4.99 NIC (www.shopampm.com)
$29.99 compusa ATX case in store + tax
$8.99 sync/fan $2.00+$6.99
---
Grand total=257.99
Without taking the memory into account (2 sticks your price)
$157.99
*hard drive not included*
*keyboard/mouse/speakers not included*
*cd-rom not included*
Page one machine on www.pricewatch.com
$116 Celeron 1.7ghz 128mb CD-rom keyboard $104 + $12 shipping
Bit of advice to ya. When trying to save money, keep in mind that legacy machines sometimes need legacy parts. In your case the cost of the ram for your machine is equal to the cost of a replacement machine. That is simply unacceptable. Chances are if you go with something that will take slow pc-2100 DDR memory you're going to save a hell of alot more money than you ever would going with anything that takes pc100/pc133.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
You get what you pay for. -- Gabriel Biel
$13.00 64MB PC66 SDRAM 168-PIN DIMM 8X64-10
$7.00 AMD-K6-233 66MHz CPU
$7.00 AMD K6 Socket7 Fan with HeatSink
$3.99 10/100 PCI NIC
$19.95 2GB IDE HARD DRIVE MAJOR BRAND
$27.85 ASUS P5-99VM microATX w/Video & Audio
$17.94 MicroATX Case
$96.73
Easily enough to run whatever flavor of linux, but to appease the masses:
$14.45 Windows 98 SE License
$111.18
I can easily get a P133 with 32Mb of ram up and browsing the net, newsgroups, and email. Used, they are practically free for the taking. New with a cheap PS and case could be made for probably $30. You need a real modem if you have to dial up, another $40, bit 10Mb Ethernet is around $10 or maybe already onboard. I like the trailing edge of technology, does what I need. I just use lots of them.
The reason we subjugate ourselves to law is to better procure justice. If law does not accomplish this purpose then it m
That's 65 quid for something which is already running linux and can be hacked. Bit over $100, but then hardware is usually cheaper in the US.
Of course it's not a desktop, but that's not in the rules.
_O_
.|< The named which can be named is not the true named
I've got an SGI Octane sitting here on my desk typing this that I got for $120.00 WITH a monitor, keyboard, external CD and floppy drives and a 10 gig hard drive init. You can buy O2s all day on Ebay for $90 bucks too.
Ok,Octane won't run Linux, no port to it yet.
How about a P120 HP Vectra running my Linux router for $40 bucks?
Computers are CHEAP! Never buy new unless you absolutely positively HAVE TO run Doom 3. ~:D
Maybe you should report this to all the peer reviewed econ journals. What you say is controversial, but intriguing....
</sarcasm>
Don't confuse econ 101 with real economics.
Photos.
Go to computers->no OS, search for "complete", and find computer like the following:
Complete sys - AMD Athlon XP 2100+ No OS 128MB,20GBHD CDROM Video Sound Keyboard mouse
Price - $ 93
Sounds more like ...
Someone please donate PCs for free to the third-world countries so we can slap $100 tax per PC for copy of Windows.
-
Soyo SY-K7VM333 socket A microATX motherboard -- $39.00
-
AMD Duron 1.1GHz (200MHz FSB) Socket A CPU -- $34.00
-
11-Bay ATX Case w/300W Power Supply -- $19.00
-
128MB PC-2100 Double Data Rate (DDR) 184-pin (16x64) RAM -- $27.00
-
52x Beige IDE CD-ROM Drive -- $8.95
-
IBM Deskstar 20GB UDMA/100 7200 RPM IDE Hard Drive -- $34.00
Total is $161.95, not incl shipping, and you have to assemble yourself. So not $100, but not bad for a full-fledged computer with lots of power.- -
Are you an SF Fan? Are you a Tru-Fan?
Build a platform like a Palm IIIxe. Add a keyboard and modem. Easily doable under $100. The IIIxe was selling new, at a profit at $200 many years ago. Assuming an economy of scale large enough (China), I can certainly see it coming in under the limit.
A Palm IIIxe isn't the fastest computer on the block, but it is capable of all of the basic computing tasks. (A friend took his and one of those folding keyboards to an archeological dig in some God-forsaken 3rd world hell-hole as a data input device instead of a laptop. It worked marvelously.) It runs for a long time on batteries, and could likely be re-fitted for solar power.
Add the power of the Internet through the modem, and you hardly need storage space at all.
Computers aren't expensive because of the hardware, or the software, really. Our expectations make the machines so costly.
Potato chips are a by-yourself food.
I live in Toronto and we have two stores, active surplus and Above all. In either one you can find any kind of PC component for approximatly $5 (maybe a sound card would set you back more but that's because it's specialty) some parts you'll have to go in the "maybe not working box" but if you use redundancy you can get it all working. They have $30 cdn monitors.
Basically yea it can be done, these guys are doing it for the most part to support haxor culture, they are crazy russian engineers who have basically volunteered their time to run the place but they aren't doing it at a loss.
"maybe not working components" aren't for everyone but I can build two computers for $100 American so I'm happy.
Sure... wait... It has to be powerful enough to run windows?
Like hell. New versions of linux have less ssytem requirments than windows XP which is like 2 or 3 years old. Wait till longhorn gets here. How can they expect people to be able to buy cheap computers when their OS is so inefficent and such a resource hog. Maybe if they actually did some competent programming and made their os sane and fast, but as it stands, if you buy a cheap PC and want it to work well, you should put linux on it. Not to mention the $300 windiows tax would triple or quadrouple the price of the computer. How the hell do they think this makes sense?
It can be done. In fact, I'm doing it now for another project (email me with questions). Thing is, you have to give up Intel compatibility to do it.
:^)
This isn't a problem in the world of Free Software: OpenOffice is perfectly happy running on an ARM or MIPS machine, for example. It's a big problem for customers who want to run Microsoft Office, though. Which means Ballmer isn't going to go there.
b.g.
I just checked e-bay and there have been hundreds of P3 systems sold in the last month for $50 to $75. Most around 128 - 256 meg RAM 10 - 20 gig HD often w/keyboard and mouse. THese will run a browser and WP just fine, in fact they'll do almost anything you need except edit video or run the latest games.
Hmmm. The lynksys gateway devices have a 200Mhz MIPS cpu, some memory and sell for under $80US. Figure out a way to add a display and some storage for $20US and you are set.
I see people repeadily posting various prices yet everyone seems to forget something: the nick-nacks. The miscelleaous parts quickly add up. For example, no one has yet to mention the cables - yet alone things like copper shims, case fans, or thermal compound for the Athlon XP's that they listed. They tend to run hot you know, and they're defintely going to generate a lot heat with the some of the vigorious task taht have been listed (gaming being a good example). Very few people even bothered to mention a CPU fan and/or heat sink, yet they clearly suggested an OEM processor. I'm guessing they don't understand the difference between oem and retail.
My own two cents... an affordable computer is relative; For me it is one to two weeks Salary... It's good for a few years and then you replace it.
At $100 a Billion more people might afford one. Good news for MS. I still think that means 50 to 80% of the people on the planet will never have a personal computer. We think of EVERYONE having one... but BILLIONS Don't and never will.
If China or India through government agencies spec'd out and helped pay for some deployments of cheap computers, it would help them create a cultural Homogony now known by the US. It could use commodity chip sets.
The spec' would call for use of TV monitors, which more people already have and use over the air digital networks and/or networks that delivery audio, video, voice and data. Basically radio, TV, Internet and Telephony in one pipe. Put lot of government services over that pipe, like education and government services and you could do some good.
http://www.hawknest.com/
I think you all are missing the difference from a $100 computer offered as an OEM, or as a home built pc from commercialy avaiable parts. Sure price watch gives you good prices, but if you were serious about building this, then you would contact a wholesale supply house and get the parts at approx. 50% off of retail. Now I know newegg and tigerdirect and pricewatch prices are below retail, but they are still making a prifit. Cut out the middle men in your price equations and I think you will find that the $100 limitation is fairly reasonable.
Reading about the "pin header" reminds me of the IBM PCjr, the most over/underengineered computer I've ever seen. Some of the hardware on the system was milspec and rock-solid; I can only assume that IBM simply had sources where they could get 'em for peanuts. Most of the I/O off the back was on a bunch of header connectors. Cheap-cheap.
barawn is right, the way it's available, just use the chip with everything on it, and connect any ports you aren't planning on including to a header on the board for future expansion.
I found an xbox on froogle for approximately $120. You can get a usb keyboard and mouse working with it, by modifying the xbox gamepad cable and hook it up to a tv as a monitor.
/^([Ss]ame [Bb]at (time, |channel.)){2}$/
If I actually follow the rules and get only new hardware, not on sale, with video, hard drive, ram, case, power supply, cd-rom, motherboard and processor, I get $181. This is all straight from newegg.
I bet if you shopped suppliers, spent a bit more time, and took advantage of sales (still only getting new equipment) you could pare it down to $100.
Linkworld Beige/Transparent Gray Micro ATX Mini Tower Case, Model "217 MICRO ATX C.06" -RETAIL
Item# N82E16811164041
$13.00
$13.00
CD/DVD ROM Drives
Artec Black 56X CDROM, Model CHM-56, Retail
Item# N82E16827120505
$14.50
Hard Drives
Hitachi 40GB 7200RPM IDE Hard Drive, Model HDS722540VLAT20, OEM Drive Only
Item# N82E16822145056
$49.00
Memory (System Memory)
Rosewill 184-Pin 128MB DDR PC-3200, Model RW400/128 - Retail
Item# N82E16820223007
$21.00
Motherboards - AMD
PCChips "M811LU" KT266A Chipset Motherboard for AMD Socket A CPU -RETAIL
Item# N82E16813185010
$26.00
Processors
AMD Athlon 1.33 GHz, 266MHz FSB, 256K Cache Processor - OEM
Item# N82E16819103156
$41.00
Video Cards
APOLLO S3 SAVAGE IX Video Card, 8MB SGR, PCI, Model "XPERT PLAY 3000 PCI" -RETAIL
Item# N82E16814140033
$17.00
Product total: $181.50
I've been thinking about this for some time. You can get a Palm for $99, a color one for $149, and those come with a screen! Surely if they didn't have to be so small they could be sold at a lower price. If you take out the screen, buttons and slot and replace them with an ethernet port (you already have a usb port), you could probably get below $99. There's been plenty of times I wished I could just plug an ethernet cable into my Zire. I've already got all the apps I need to use the Internet on it.
I went out today and bought a low-end system; by "low-end" I mean one three times faster than any previous computer I've owned, and cheaper all-'round than any of the ones I've purchased new (incl. the cost of parts to the ones I've built bit by bit).
:)) ...) and some other SW, like MS Works.
:) More to the point, it was the cheapest system I saw in the store (a Best Buy, sorry, no Fry's in El Paso), aside from a $399 open-box P4 system*, it runs Linux dandy, and from my place on the hardware adoption curve, it feels pretty darn speedy.
For $450 (a sale price, but nothing funny, no mail-in-annoyance rebates), I got an emachines system with:
- 60 GB hard drive
- 512MB RAM (haven't opened case yet to see how many slots remain)
- Sempron 2800+ (whatever clock speed this is)
- decent if not flashy case (metal, not plastic)
- DVD-CD/RW drive
- integrated graphics (but free AGP slot for later)
- built-in multi-format flash reader (CF etc)
- included 17" CRT
- surprisingly good keyboard
- surprisingly bad mouse (a mechanical mouse in a system built in 2004? What are they thinking?
- Windows XP (which came on a restore CD, so if I ever want to learn the arcane and difficult Windows operating system I could put it back on the hard drive
Now, this is a system that harcore gamers would scoff at I guess, until I take them in the DeLorean to the year 2002
For $299, a lower-spec'd system was available at CompUSA which was loaded with AOL branding and running a slowish Celeron with (iirc) 256MB RAM. But slowish by 2004 standards is not *slow*, just slower than possible. Also for $299, TigerDirect will sell you a system similar to the one I bought today (except no monitor, and slightly lesser components -- smaller HD, slower Sempron, less RAM, but c'mon, in the same ballpark).
timothy
*And the P4 system did *not* include a monitor.)
jrnl: http://tinyurl.com/c2l8yr / foes: http://tinyurl.com/ckjno5
I think somebody else already posted this but yes it .
1 5& f=1
can be done for under 100$
Complete sys - AMD Athlon XP 2100+ No OS 128MB,20GBHD CDROM Video Sound Keyboard mouse
Hmmm No OS bet that can be fixed...
http://www.pricewatch.com/h/prc.aspx?i=335&a=52
Got Code?
I dont know why they dont do it. A USB keyboard, mouse, printer attached. Drop in your Office for XBox DVD when you want to write a letter. Or your Explorer DVD when you want the Web. Keep it video game simple... save your letters like you save games. Forget about any OS at all. No Windows or Linux or anything else visible. Forget multitasking.... I've found users quite suprised to discover it's even possible. A super simple productive machine for the home user. No viruses or complicated installations. No obscure problems with the OS. Nothing much to break.
It's assumed that a monitor, keyboard and mouse are already available.
/.ers, who have boatloads of spare misc. computer detritus scattered around. He wants it in the hands of your grandmother, who sure as hell isn't saving a 50lb 15" monitor and PS2/serial mouse/kybd in the closet "just in case."
Why? Ballmer didn't say so. And it's not a $100 computer if these aren't included in the price.
I'm not trolling -- I just don't understand how this is at all useful. Ballmer doesn't want a $100 computer for to
What does it mean to wake out of a dream
and be wearing someone else's shorts?
BNL, Born on a Pirate Ship (1998)
Stop, stop, stop, stop everyone, please, just stop trying to prove you can or can't make a computer for 100 bucks by looking up retail prices at your favorite pricegrabber site.
RETAIL is NOT the point.
The ONLY thing that matters is whether you can gather the parts for a WHOLESALE pricepoint where you can sell the box for 100 retail.
Until someone starts posting bulk wholesale prices and then computes the cost of labor, none of the DIY lists are even remotely interesting.
Did Ballmer just watch "The First $20 million is always the hardest..."?
:-)
We already have the e-magi!
3dStudioMAX is around three grand. A single seat of Photoshop is 750$ or so, and Illustrator's in the same ballpark... Apple's video suite is around a grand and the MX Studio tracks around 500$ (much cheaper educational...).
:|
Oh, and the price of creative software is going UP...
I am sure you can build a $100 machine. But I think the big point will be, how long will it remain usefull? Not too long, I'm guessing.
Pretty Pictures!
basiclinux should work nicely on the box though
I wonder if it is fast enough to act as a NAT? For speeds of up to 1Mbps - probably. No moving parts for the cpu means it should last forever too. Give it a new life as a customisable nat?
Okay, I'll have a go at this, but I'll be using $A so I get to go up to $133 (damn, the US$ has really dropped). My favourite local discount computer supplier has a complete new system for $490. Trying to put something together from their cheapest listed new parts doesn't even manage more than motherboard and RAM before it's over $150. Another place I frequent fares no better.
Shipping was included, as I noted in my first post. Keyboard/mouse/speakers were not part of the requirments. Infact, the story specified a keyboard was already availible. HDD was included in the second estimate, a follow up I posted almost immedietly after the first post ($20 for 20gb). The DVD ROM was post after THAT to the first guy who brought that minor fact to my attention ($12 DVDROM). Since I can't edit, it's the best I could do to correct my error. All in all, still less than $150 including shipping. Nor did the story specify replacement machines, lifespans legacy hardware or the like, cost to replacement ratio, etc. I took him for his word and attempted to give him a machine as close to the $$ as possible. That, and the machine package you listed will be CHOKING for RAM even with the faster CPU. It's a good deal, but you'll still need to add on to it to be even remotely useful. And the only way it can be $116 is if it's a barebones kit. Did you even bother adding in the essential options?
You're the one assuming too much of the buyer. He said, $100 and I tried to get as close to the mark as possible. Yes, the RAM is the most expensive piece in there. SO WHAT?. What imay be unaccpetable for you might be for him. At $100, it's a throw away machine anyway. There are going to be tradeoffs. I opted for the slower processor and tried to balance it out with more RAM. You took the other approach and added more than $100 to the process. A bit of advice to you- Don't read between the lines so much. Oh, and pay a bit more attention to the story and its replies.
You need a FREE iPod Nano
Yes, you can. But these may not be the kind of computer everyone will want. Regardless, they work, are at or below $100 (or were when link was made, boo for future-proofing), and don't have to be bought in bulk.
Direct away from face when opening.
$0 OS (linux) and $0 office suite (open office) with our $100 PCs. That will stop the piracy for sure."
I'd like to see Ballmer's face when he hears this.
What are the profit margins on hardware?
What are the profit margins on Windows?
When you buy hardware it is yours and you actually get something for your money. When you buy WIndows you buy a piece of paper that says you may use it but that it is not really yours...
The man behind this really honest deal (bend over it won't hurt, I promise) wants the people that actually sell you stuff to go broke!
Who is this Balmer? Do you really have to be a dumb fsck like him to become obscenely rich?
OK sorry I asked, it helps...
realkiwi
You would have to make it simple to manufacture. I was thinking what you would want is a motherboard with "everything" on it. Ethernet, sound, USB, video card, IDE, Modem. To go from board to computer you add some ram, a hard drive and put it in a case. You probably would want a somewhat custom case for easy access as well. If I was trying to make a $100-150 computer I would also make it a motherboard with no slots, just what was on the motherboard. I figure many many users just want the real basics and thats it. I might even put 128mb of ram on the mother board.
The idea here is that by putting everything on the motherboard you reduce your cost to put the whole computer together.
Now many of the slashdot crowd would not want such a fixed computer for their main workstation, but it would be an ideal system to give your kids etc. Or for a massive install.
Erlang Developer and podcaster
Wait... You mean people actually PAY for that stuff???? Got mine from a friend of a friend of a friend...
You need a FREE iPod Nano
I'm sure it's going to end up being bad, but I'll give it a shot:
First of all, no case. It'll work without one, so I'm not including it in my attempt. Given this, along with the fact that I'm using old, slow and therefore cooler processors, no cooling should be needed.
Second, I'm ignoring labor. If you can put Linux on your machine yourself, you can build it yourself.
Cheapest new CPU I could find was a PII-266 for $6:
Compatible motherboard Intel 440BX for $10
Lets go with a good 64MB of ram. This one uses EDO, which is $8.
Then we add a a 4MB AGP video card for $6,
a sound card for $6,
and a 10/100 LAN card for $4.
Power supply for $14.
8x CDROM drive for $9,
At this point, I might add that all of these things actually have free shipping in case you want to do this.
With the exception of power supplies, which are cheap, harddrives go bad the fastest, so people are always buying up the surplus ones. It makes it a lot harder to find old stock that hasn't been sold.
So I'd like to consider it separately. Right now we're at $63.
The cheapest harddrive I could find in 4 minutes of searching (about that for the other stuff) was a 20GB 7200 drive for $30 with shipping.
So...we're done at $93.
You might also have to buy an IDE cable. I was just hoping that the harddrive or the motherboard or the CDRom drive came with one.
Using this same procedure, you can probably get a case for about $20. Same low quality. But why bother with such cheap parts? Keep 'em in a shoebox.
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine!
Actually this was kind of fun. http://www.pricewatch.com/ gives all the necessary links.
These are all-new, retail prices. Shipping + taxes not included.
CPU: 700 Mhz Celeron $18
MB: Intel 810 MB, with sound/video/USB/ethernet $10 (!)
RAM: 128MB PC2100 $15
DVD: $12
Case+300Watt PS: $24
HD: 3.5GB EIDE $17
Heatsink/Fan $1
2 IDE cables: $1
Total: $98
This even includes a DVD, not CD.
The hard drive was the surprisingly expensive part. The motherboard was the surprisingly cheap part.
It compensates for dropping the last "i" in "aluminium"
With rebates you can anyway....
I did - here's how....
Motherboard and CPU (Boxed): Fry's @ $49.95 for both.
Motherboard = ECS K7VTA3. Built in sound and NIC.
CPU = AMD Athlon XP 2400+ with fan and 3 year warranty. CPU overclocks to 2.2 gHz, making the chip run as if it was a 3200+
Case and 400 watt power supply: Fry's $15.00 after rebate ($34.95 with 20 dollar rebate)Memory: Kingston Value RAM 512K PC3200 DDR. Fry's $60.00 after 20 dollar rebate.
Hard drive: 80 gigabyte Maxtor ATA 133 7200 RPM 8 meg cache. $40.00 at Office Depot
CD ROM: Kyphermedia 52X CDRW. $9.95 after rebate at Office Max. 200 CD's and 100 CD jewel cases free after rebate at Office Max.Video card: ATI 32 meg 4X AGP. $25.00 including shipping from Newegg.
Floppy Drive: $9.95 at Fry's.
Keyboard and mouse: Belkin KB and optical mouse. KB was free after rebate; mouse was $9.95 with $5.00 rebate. Office Max.Modem: Winmodem. Free after 10 dollar rebate at Office Max
Speakers: Yamaha 2.1 60 watt from Amazon.com $10.00 including shipping
Operating system: Linspire v4.5. Free Download from Fat Wallet.
Office suite: Free from openoffce.org.TOTAL: (approx) $225.00
I could have saved about $40.00 by going with 256 Megs of RAM instead of 512 megs, not using a floppy drive and using a 40 gig hard drive.This system is a KILLER! It is extremely fast and stable - even overclocked to a 200 meg bus speed (3200XP speed).
I built this system within the past 30 days....VIA EPIA-5000 M/B = £45
Maxtor Diamondmax 40gb hdd = £24.67
64mb Jumpdrive USB = £7.00
El-cheapo 300w case + PSU = £11.99
Total price = £89, and this is at retail price (-tax)
Buying OEM and you could easily do this for a cost of under £60!!
Grab a keyboard and mouse for about a fiver too. EPIA can display through television too. (probably still rare, but more available that a monitor!)
Plus, the motherboard has no moving parts and runs very cool, great for dusty environments.
I've assembled the $100 computer, though, it amounted to around $260.
Take off every 'ZIG' !!
To run a $400 operating system.
When I am king, you will be first against the wall.
In New York City, WasteMatch (http://www.wastematch.org/) can send you an email everytime an office tosses out old equipment. This often includes desks, chairs, refrigerators, (there's a working soda vending machine on their list now), and every few weeks a bunch of computers and monitors. If you don't mind a box that's a couple of years old it's a great way to get (usually) working machines without having to dumpster-dive.
every stain tells a story
http://snipurl.com/a2d0
Brand: Compaq
Chip Type: Intel Pentium II
Memory (RAM): 128 MB
Hard Drive Capacity: 10 GB
Primary Drive: CD-ROM
Processor Speed: 400 MHz
Bundled Items: Keyboard, Modem, Monitor, Mouse, Network Card
9/11 Eyewitnesses to Explosive WTC Demolition 1 of 2
Seriously. Have you seen the specs on the Advance series? They sell for what, $80? With a screen?
.NET runs on, and I'm betting it'll be a while before appliances are running that.
Dump the LCD, it's too small for reasonable work. Replace it with TV out. Yes TV is sucky but most can (barely) manage readable text in 640x480 for simple wordprocessing and browsing. I'm betting someone in the next 10 years *cough*china*cough* will develop a digital TV cheap enough to penetrate the 3rd world markets, which should improve things dramaticly. But for now, TV out would suffice, and removing the LCD would probably save at least 20% on the price per unit.
Add a USB port. Just has to be at least one. You can always daisy chain a keyboard and mouse like apple was often fond of. GBA's already have a link system, and wasn't firewire co-developed by apple and nintendo?
Add ethernet. I doubt you could do wireless in the price range, but eventually it'll happen. Generic 100M cards go in 99 cent bins these days. You can even find gigabit cards on sale for under $20. 802.11 cards will follow, though it's not necessary either way, just convenient.
Now someone out there is saying "Wait, what about the disk?" Ok now, repeat after me "There is no disk." Wait, what? You heard me, no disk. How? We centralize the disk on a NAS, and use a bootstrap flash rom similar to a GBA cartridge. This way, you can distribute disk cost among many clients, which is FAR more efficient per GB. Consider a 160GB disk costs barely more than a 20GB disk these days. It's not even twice as much! (seriously, pricewatch has cheapest 20GB @ $33, 160GB 7200rpm @ $66!) By using ROMs with individual user keys, they boot up and request a specific user directory on the NAS, so data can be private, even encrypted. Also, assuming 802.16 really delivers on its promise, consider how many clients even a modest disk and router could serve in the 3rd world. Assuming we use a very light distro (possibly fitting everything but the apps on the boot flash!), what's the average user disk use in the real world? Exclude multimedia files. Hmm gee, those business documents and emails aren't all that big are they? A 160GB disk could probably serve at least 100 users if you restrict the kind of content they can store (just restrict the apps they can use), and that's being pessimistic. Plus disks will continue to grow, so adding more capacity is easy. Ok fine, you don't want to be draconian about file storage. So give each user a reasonable space, say 16GB. Figure it formats down to about 13GB. That's still enough for 3GB of apps and 10GB of files. Say that again, 10GB of files. Can you imagine telling someone from 1994 "You can only store 10GB of files"? Because that's the kind of data storage we're looking at here.
Don't like gameboys? Too much modding work? How bout a DVD player? Ever seen one of those under $100? Umm yeah. Does it have TV out? Yeah. Could it have USB? I don't see why not. Networking? Oh come on, ethernet cards are almost literally a dime a dozen. Processing power? It can decode mpeg2. My pentium 2 300 could barely manage that. And that's minimum spec. I'm betting modern DVD players have all sorts of fancy stuff that takes more CPU anyway.
Yeah I bet you don't like my distributed disk idea either huh? Ok then, how's this work for ya: My old DSS reciever died last week. I went around pricing a new one. Turns out Circuit City is having a sale. They've got an RCA DSS reciever WITH AN 80GB TIVO BUILT IN for $99.95! What ISN'T this machine? Does it have display? Yes, to TV, often to multiple formats. Does it have storage? Hello! 80GB! Does it take media? Hooking a DVD reader to it would probably be trivial, considering it has an IDE disk inside. Networking? It already recieves digital video over a coax cable! It's a cablemodem for all effective purposes! Keyboard/mouse etc? Most of them already have USB or firewire anyway, again trivial.
The HUGE advantage linux has over windows in the 3rd world is PORTABILITY. When you can run the OS on virtually ANY hardware with a recompile, it means you're not constrained to an expensive platform designed for high performance. The only way MS will threaten this is with ports of the CLR virtual machine that
Introducing the new Occam Fusion! Now with sqrt(-1) fewer blades!
I think a an open adaptable $100 PC would be a great idea but not for Microsoft!
If you can build a PC that will run windows at a satisfactory speed, plus office and what ever essential software, who will want to spend a hundred on a computer and then hundreds more on bloatware I mean software.
I wonder if they could build such a cheap computer and support the range of external devices currently available, perhaps we will see a two tier PC hardware platfom "real boxes" for those with $$$$ and the $100 specials for the rest and if so the $100 ones will be poor crippled examples of what a PC could be tied to an OS etc. and perhaps able to have its firmware automatically updated remotely to stop other OS's being run on it.
I for one and I guess people in general will not be willing to pay several times the price of the computer for an OS and applications, but I know of other products which could fill that gap quite nicely given a chance and if the hardware makers do their work well.
Since when did *nix fans need monitors ? Use the TV until Linux is installed and then SSH, etc afterwards. You will not need the USB converters as you can install GentooX using a controler.
007 AUF also works for the hack so you have a choice of two games to find. You can flash the TSOP without needing a modchip.
- Why _load_ Firefox/OOffice when you can run it
in the ROM? It might run a bit slower, but the perceived responsiveness is often determined by application startup time.
- Why _boot_ a machine at all? I'm ok with developers' machines being booted, since they
stay up 27/7 anyway. But a consumer who wants
to check something on the Net or write a quick letter can't be bothered to go through a 3-minute boot cycle.
- Also, it can't hurt to modify the hardware slightly so that a LED indicates there are new emails even if the whole box is switched off, to save energy.
I hope I will live to see a real consumer computer that is as much an appliance as a microwave oven.The only idea that goes a little bit in this direction is modern BIOSes that have a built-in Web browser that doesn't need an OS.
--
Try Nuggets , our SMS search engine. We answer your questions via SMS, across the UK.
For your average home user, who just wants a simple web browser, mail client and word processor (possibly a spreadsheet if they're *REALLY* advanced), you could use just about anything. There are some embedded microcontrollers that are more powerful than the first PCs, that sell for pennies in quantities of a few hundred. It can't be that difficult.
will it run Doom 3?
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
Cripes, all I see is Newegg and pricewatch pricing - how about a little imagination Yeah it is slightly over a hundred bucks, and yeah the board to drop it on would be more money. But that is because the current production run is small I bet - I have seen a 486/100 (in a single chip) that sells for $19 in bulk. Yup it is slow and it aint got a heck of a lot in terms of memory etc. But, I would be willing to bet the power usage is low - and I will also bet that there is a window manager of somesort that we could get running on it.
These aren't even the only guys out thier doing it either - this is just the first one I googled up. Give these guys a call for a million a year and I will bet for $100/unit they could produce, and the speed would ramp up fairly quickly as well.
Sera
Slashdot, where armchair scientists get shouted down and armchair theologians get modded up.
It makes me wonder, does balmer mean that the pc should be $100 hardware? or should the 100$ be spend on the software on the light pc? something like the complete software for the pc for $100.
Windows start edition, Microsoft works, some local software.... = $100. And then some cheap hardware.
Surely he doesn't mean Hardware + Startedition ($30) = 100$. Hardware for 70$ would be even more harder to make.
What crack is Ballmer smoking? He is saying computers are obviously too expensive, hence people are paring money off the total cost by "pirating" Windows. Hmm ..... That sounds like someone who owns a pay toilet complaining that beer is too expensive. Except Ballmer is keeping a £1-a-leak pay toilet. In the woods. With no roof.
IMHO if anyone is encouraging "piracy" of Windows, it is those manufacturers of cheap and nasty peripherals who provide only Windows drivers and say "f**k you" to Linux / BSD users. It's no skin off their nose if someone has to "pirate" a copy of Windows just to make their brand new, 10mm thick, 96-bit, 76800dpi scanner work. They haven't even got the excuse that "perhaps our customers are running a less expensive but nonetheless legal operating system" if there are no drivers supplied for such systems.
Maybe if purchasers of Windows software -- and that includes Windows drivers for hardware -- were obliged to show proof they are duly licenced to run Windows {and analogously for other OSes; except that very few people indeed are not licenced to run Linux, and nobody at all is not licenced to run BSD} then things would change. In practice, what would happen is that the OSS drivers would be on the same CD as the Windows drivers and thus not physically separable. Just the fact of having Linux and BSD drivers would get the hardware manufacturer off the hook -- it's a far more reasonable supposition that someone is going to use a cheap peripheral under a Free OS if a driver is already provided for that OS than otherwise.
Je fume. Tu fumes. Nous fûmes!
Try NoMachine's NX. Better than X and GPL client and server are available.
I still use a machine with a 350MHz Pentium II chip for almost everything I do, and I do a much wider variety of things than your average user would do.
Unfortunately, I don't have a word processor installed so I can't do what I wanted to do and load an "average user"'s set of software and see how fast it runs, but suffice it to say that currently I have a bunch of text editors, my web browser, a VoIP client, an IM client, my email client, an IRC client, a whole tonne of terminals running application-wise, and in the background Apache and mySQL running, occasionally serving requests from other users of my network.
The thing all of these pieces of software have in common is that they are interactive: they don't do anything unless the user is actively using them. The ones I'm not currently looking at are using a minimal amount of CPU perhaps processing the occasional packet, or whatever. The foreground application might occasionally have quite an intensive task to perform, but it's usually over within 30 seconds tops, and the scheduler ensures that the other apps get a chance to run anyway.
It's applications like games, video playback and so on that beat the CPU constantly that become a problem. Having said that, I regularly play back video files from over the network fullscreen in mplayer and with the use of some cache and the hardframedrop option there's no discernable degredation apart from the occasional sound stutter or decompression artifact where a key frame gets skipped. Realistically no action game since Quake III Arena would run on this machine, which is its only real downfall. I don't generally play computer action games, though, so it works well enough for me.
The hard part, of course, is finding a 400MHz CPU to buy new. Second hand could work (and that's how I got my CPU three years ago), but new you'd probably be looking at a lot more than something a thousand MHz faster just because there are no economies of scale attached to such a CPU anymore. If people became interested in a low-cost PC to the point where there was a demand for such CPUs, I'd assume that today with the lessons learned from the faster CPUs companies could make a much leaner, meaner "slow" CPU that runs a lot cooler and with much less power consumption than the Pentium 2 family did. The CPUs on the fanless EPIA Mini-ITX motherboards are a good example of this, but you can't buy those separately of course.
Mind you, that's a hell of a lot closer than you'll get with almost anything else.
Using a low end Eden based board and assuming that you can build the case for $epsilon in bulk, getting under $200 is easy.
if you look at that "deal" you're referring to, the seller of the $105 system has a feedback rating by its customers of 17% positive.
what that means is that for every happy customer, they had 5 unhappy customers, not a very good track record.
i wouldn't buy from anyone on pricewatch with customer rating under 80% positive, and preferrably not under 90%.
Here is a bunch of computers starting from 50$. Sadly, the components aren't new and are likely refurbished, but the computers are sold in stores and most even include the mouse and keyboard. But you have to be in Russia to get them.
one link and another
Now if anyone would explain me how I can buy a new Apple here under 1500$, that would be great...
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
One thing you should know about cheap PCs:
They're not upgradeable. Some of these they even solder the CPU to the motherboard.
I manufacture and sell servers/clients now and then for my company's clients, therefor I have access to a bulk/OEM merchandiser.
:)
Box (ugly, bare minimum box): 20 USD
Motherboard w. integrated audio, network and graphics (supports duron/athlon): 40 USD
256 MB RAM: 30 USD
Duron 1200 mhz with fan: 30 USD
No floppy, since it cost and noone use it.
CD-rom: 15 USD
40GB HDD: 40 USD
Linux OS: 0 USD
Total cost: 175 USD. Note that the same computer with Windows XP OEM license will cost twice as much!
Ballmer would like a PC which can only run Windows. Make this a cheap PC like a games console where the PC is sold at cost or a loss, charge silly money for software.
Why is it that microsoft piracy is always someone elses fault? If the OS and other microsoft software was less expensive, you'd get more people buying it. At $100ish for OEM versions or XP Home upgrade editions and upwards of $300 for a full version of XP Pro, it's no wonder people pirate this stuff.
How many kids in school do you know who have put their own computers together out of older parts scavenged from friends and family? Everyone in my family did it. My first computer cost me $30 for a case, the rest I made from parts. Now when it comes time for an operating system, a kid in that situation is faced with $100 or more for an OEM version, up to $300, for a full version, going with Linux, or continuing his scavenging hunt and obtaining a pirated version of windows.
Really, who's going to spend 3-4 times the cost of their entire computer on the operating system when there are cheaper/free versions (both pirated and legitimate) available?
I recently upgraded 4 computers at my house, and due to the cost of the OS I still have win98 running on one of those 4 because I'm not going to spend $100 on a software upgrade for a computer I built out of spare parts. If it was $50 or so, I could buy a new OS every year and not worry about it but as the price gets between $75 and $100, it becomes "real money" even to someone like me who's held a well paying job for the last 14 years. Cost alone has kept me from buying a single version of office, ever. I've been using the office 97 edition that came with my first laptop and not only does it still work just fine, replacing it even with an upgrade edition would cost $250. If that upgrade cost was, say $50, or even $100 for the basic office suite, I would have replaced it over a year ago. Instead, I use office 97 and the openoffice.org suite whenever I run across a document that office 97 can't handle.
You can argue that microsoft has either lost $350 from me since I haven't upgraded my old office product, or that they would have $100 from me had they priced their products at a level I was comfortable paying. Heck, if it was $50 I'd buy a copy for my laptop, my wife's laptop, my desktop, and probably even my multimedia computer while I'm at it. So they'd have gotten $200 from me at the cost of $5ish for each boxed set and CD, a net gain of $180 that they're otherwise never going to get out of me.
So does it REALLY cost so much to run microsoft that the higher volume they'd sell if they charged lower prices wouldn't make up for what they're losing now to piracy? Maybe it would be better to get SOMETHING for their work instead of griping about getting NOTHING from people stealing their software... Heck, maybe MS could offer a downloadable version for $50. You get nothing but a license key and either the installation files or a CDROM/DVD image. It would be easy, cheap, and maybe a few people would actually pay for it instead of just stealing it.
I pulled the prices from my memory, but they are mostly correct, when i checked it:
CPU: Duron is no more, it semes. So instead I choose a Athlon "sempron" 2200+, it cost 5 USD more.
CD-rom: There are no super cheap cd-rom drives anymore, the cheapest is 25 USD - the same as the cheapest DVD/CD-rom reader. So the computer gets a DVD drive for 10 more USD.
HDD: The harddrive is 5 USD cheaper.
Summary:
Athlon 2200+, audio, lan, 256 MB RAM, 40 GB HDD, DVD-rom, a Linux OS. Total cost: 185 USD.
It's Atari or Commodore BASIC.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Can you buy a board with a ton of interfaces, voltage regulators, 128 MB RAM, etc, for less than 100$ today. Well, yes. It's called a graphics card.
No, I'm not going for "Funny" mod points. Bear with me. I'm trying to make a point.
The point is that you want to minimize the number of chips and the PCB complexity to the maximum.
It's not even a new idea. Back in the day, ZX Spectrum computers were very cheap because of the "ULA" chip. Basically Sir Clive Sinclair had invented the north-bridge. With integrated graphics, no less. No, again, it's not a joke.
Instead of having a ton of smaller chips, the ZX Spectrum basically had one custom designed chip with all the needed functions. It cut the price a lot.
For a more modern point for it, look at the PS2 vs XBox. The PS2 went and integrated pretty much everything it could into the CPU. The XBox went with a traditional PC design. The PS2 is a lot cheaper to produce. And the XBox loses money hand over fist because it's expensive to produce.
So basically that's the way I'd go. Take an idea from the AMD K8: it already integrates the memory controller on the CPU. Aside from saving traces on the mobo, it also gives it awesome latency on memory access.
So I'd take that idea and run amok with it all the way: integrate _everything_ possible on the CPU. Including ATA controller, a simple 2D graphics core, etc.
Of course, I'd probably not base it on the K8, which uses too much power and is large anyway. I'd want something like a P3 made in 90nm (yes, it's called a Dothan) and with a minimal cache. Say, 256K will do just fine.
That leaves lots of space to pack the other goodies around it. Again, the idea is to pack both "north bridge" and "south bridge" and sound card too on the same chip as the CPU.
I'd probably go for a Kyro 1 graphics core. Yes, it's old, but it does just fine even in simple 3D games, on very little memory bandwidth. And since it's gonna be an integrated graphics solution, bandwidth is what it won't have.
So basically at the end you'd have a motherboard which is the size of a graphics card, and looks much like a graphics card. A central chip, some 8 RAM chips soldered around it, a big cooler and a couple of connectors.
A polar bear is a cartesian bear after a coordinate transform.
Not in a sence that microsoft want's it to be.
You *COULD* fit a soundchip+2Dgfx+keyboard/mouse controller+networkcontroller+arm processor+memory controller on a relatively tiny chip, perhaps costs under 4$ to make+(fixed costs, which is VERY high, desing+masksets etc...). Then add some ram, and a flash, and you get a computer system capable of handling most peoples computing needs. Replace flash with harddrive, and you still get under 100$ if you don't make it mobile. Its quiet and it runs 2D applications just fine and has input and sound support. Probably more realisticly, after thinking of other costs that 10$ chip gives better bang for buck, for manufacturers point of view, better performing->easier to sell...
Its wonderfull how moore law works. @0.09u technology you could fit as much stuff as you could in 95 for ~30 chips, of equal size. (And typicly many of those chip where made in older generation process in 95 so thats simple. What is problematic is that windows and windows applications require computer being more powerfull than what a single chip solution could do. Single chip computing+2 dram chips+ flash chip, and physical connectors in a pcb, and case. Thats what is really needed for emerging computing needs.
Emacs is good operating system, but it has one flaw: Its text editor could be better.
i bouet it and my peniss grew 3'' OVERNITE!!!! emily cornbred form ohio DIDN@T BUY IT and next week she was RUN OVIR BY A TRANE!!!!
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Starting with this system and turning off options not required by the challenge, you can get a 1.8 GHz Duron for just over $200. No used parts, clearance prices, or one-day specials.
...but I'd still mod it "Funny" if I had any points.
Pray that you get someone like this guy next time you buy at a low-budget superstore. He's one of the few that seem care regardless of the pay and conditions.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
What I tell pirates: the biggest effect of piracy is to drive out the low cost products, because if you can get the high end ones for free where's the market for the cheaper alternatives? Over and over again, pirated Office and Windows keeps competing products from growing to the point where they can threaten Microsoft. And so here we see the same thing happening again: Microsoft waits for widespread piracy to establish a market and then walks in and demands their cut.
"Fair"? In what sense is getting a cheap price only because you illegally obtain a copy of MS Office by fraudulently misrepresenting yourself as a "student" (as the parent post suggested) "fair"? In what sense is getting students hooked on proprietary document formats and user interfaces early on in their careers so that they later will by the full-priced package when they grow up to be corporate drones "fair"?
I think a friend of mine built one for about $50 last year. Motherboard with integrated 1.2ghz cpu came to $5 after a rebate. Case was $10 or so. 128mb pc133 came to another $10 and a 2gb hard drive can be counted as free these days. I know that doesnt even come close to adding up but the point is that it was cheap.
...when I worked in a computer store in West Perth called Computer Choice, for a chappie by the name of Ed O'Connor-Smith. After watching him sell a computer, one friend of mine took to calling him Ed O'Conman-Smith which was a tad unfair even though he could indeed sell ice to eskimos or charm a starving baby away from the breast. He once sold a million-dollar mainframe on someone's petty cash.
Ed sold an Osborne 1 to a lady called Pauline Winter (no relation to the actress AFAIK) of Maritana Typing Services, of which I can find no trace on the Web. Pauline had a top-of-the-wozzer Olivetti electric typewriter which would do a steady 75 WPM and had a 16,000 keystroke typeahead buffer. She beat it. Easily.
The Osborne 1 scanned the keyboard in software in its spare time, using its (at the time) grunty 4MHz 8-bit Z80, with pretty much inevitable results. So Pauline brought it back.
Instead of refunding her, Ed upsold her to a KayPro II, which was built like a lab instrument and had a separate microcontroller in the keyboard and guaranteed 3-and-a-half-key rollover. And 400kB 5.25" floppies in place of the shiny new recently-doubled-in-size 192kB floppies in the Osborne, and a full 64kB of RAM in place of the Osborne's 48kB. Your keyboard probably has considerably more storage than everything in the Osborne added together. (-:
Pauline sat in the shop for a few days, using the Kaypro to make sure everything went well. Her typing was like rain on a tin roof, there was no way you could hear individual keystrokes, but the funniest part was watching WordStar.
WordStar is a little priority-driven time-sharing little universe of its own. It had an event loop decades before Bill knackered the one in OS/2. If it has time, it prints stuff. If it doesn't, it at least updates the display decorations. If it has no time for that, it keeps the current text looking good; and if not all of the current text, then the current line, followed by the lines above and below outwards towards the top and bottom of the display. And if not even the current line, it echoes the characters as you type them, and the last-ditch response is to just store the characters and echo nothing.
With Pauline at the keyboard, WordStar was able to echo two characters out of 3 if it was lucky. Printing happened for a few minutes some time after the start of coffee break, and for maybe 25 minutes of a half-hour lunch break, and for many hours after she'd finished for the day. She was typing at least as fast as a top-shelf Ricoh daisywheel could, and that's fast. She started with a blank data floppy every day (two drives, one for programs and one for data), and usually filled about 3/4 of a 400kB floppy by close of trade, so I'd guess that was a sustained 110-120 WPM.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
I have an old Packard-Bell (woo, brand name!) Pentium 120 standing around, since I replaced it as my firewall with a PCEngines box running M0n0wall. Runs FreeBSD beautifully, and you get not one, but three network cards with it.
Provided someone comes and picks it up, that is. This great product comes for the low low price of...nothing!
All this, and I'll even throw in a keyboard, mouse and 15" CRT monitor. And for a limited time only, I'll include a set of FreeBSD boot floppies. One caller only, special offer expires...as soon as someone takes the f'ing thing away.
Cole's Law: Thinly sliced cabbage
...since about version 2.something. And it does this on-line plus it's a good deal cheaper than MS-Word.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
The GIMP is $0, so is CinePaint ...and so on...
Kontour is $0
Cinelerra is $0
So how long are these other programs going to remain overpriced?
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
I think he (Ballmer) meant that monitor and keyboard would be included (and a mouse, no doubt) for a total of $100 .
Don't become a regular here, you will become retarded. -- Yoda the Retard
Back in the day, Timex Sinclair computers were going for $100.00. The price kept dropping, to about $10.00, until finally our local mobile gas station was giving them away for free with an oil change (I'm serious!). So, I guess the answer to how cheap a computer can be is "zero". Of course, that was before Microsoft's dominance.
Seeing Xbox will be old technology in a year with the advent of the so called NeXt Box wouldnt it be prudent of M$ to use the old XBoxes as PCs for your TV.A Gentoo distribution Gentoox runs great on the xbox as do other Linux distros like Debain .All that has to be done is for M$ to change the firmware so it will allow a M$ OS run on it seeing its basicaly a x86 box that will only allow signed code to run by defualt.
I see posts saying Windows is $200 ... for new PC's (new mobo's actually), you get OEM Windows which is priced far lower than retail ... somewhere around $100CDN, I believe. And I think Ballmer would cut the Windows price to fit a $200 computer.
One way to save a couple bucks would be to use a paperboard case. They can be very durable, and even cheaper to make than bent sheet metal. The only obstacle is to convince everyone that they are durable enough.
Fascism trolls keeping me up every night. When I starts a preachin', he HITS ME WITH HIS REICH!
It's interesting the way a lot of these threads are going here. A lot of what I'm seeing is, "Well, if you just need a word processor, then..." This makes me wonder if we should be focusing some effort in a slightly different place.
Maybe what we need is an operating system that "just does" word processing, web surfing, and e-mail. It would be a bit of a throwback to the old days of typewriters and workstations, but was that era really wrong?
Sun seems to be trying to encourage one mode of doing this - the blade terminal. But, I think there are a lot of companies who are very worried about taking such a big step toward this setup. Not only do you have to spend a bit of time getting the networking for that system right, but if you don't like it later, you suddenly have all of this hardware that is completely useless to you.
I think that if you could get the same setup running on the x86 machines that are already in place in most companies, and also show them how they could buy cheaper versions, that would still work perfectly if they ever chose to go back to their Windoze platform, then you would really have something killer.
I'm sure that there are now a few zealots screaming, "This is exactly what XYZ linux does!" I'd argue, though, that even linux in its current state is a bit more than what is needed. I'm really talking about a very non-general purpose machine that literally only does word-processing, web browsing, and e-mail. And, of course, the qualifier here is that it does these three exceptionally well and extremely intuitively. I think there are ways to start with a linux distro and write some extra application code to make this system happen, but it's not there yet.
Sigh, back to my current Windoze business life. Counting the hours until I can get home to my nice, debian-loaded UltraSPARC. :)
Here's a brand new PC fro a mere 29.99 after rebates.
I was told by someone that should know that the variable cost by one of the biggest american laptop manufactures was $150. Seems a bit low to me, but if it is true than a $100 PC seems rather trivial.
Who said I'm cheating? If we can assume a mouse, keyboard, and monitor, why can't we assume the rest of the hardware? If the objective is to produce a $100 PC, the cost should encompass the entire kit. After all, we're trying to make it so people won't steal expensive software, right?
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
I imagine from marketing to distributors everyone that has their hands in the pot want their share. If a video card 64 meg generic, costs $40 new, how much does this card cost to mass produce per unit? $5? If you think about the way supply and demand works, if someone could get on board with some manufacturers and could assume several different roles, distributor, in house marketing they could drastically reduce the price.
American consumers, myself included at times, often will avoid a product offered at a drastic discount for fear of a lack of quality.
This $100 PC could be done I'm sure, but to what end? Is there really a market for a $100 machine? Who would the target demographic be, mom and dad? Grandparents? Schools, or foriegn peoples? And what tech support would this PC offer if any? At $100 per unit would the cost of running tech support outweigh the cost of just buying a new one? What of a warranty? Would the warranty be to just give them a new one?
Bottom line, the $100 PC will never hit the shelves unless money can be made from the venture.
I am Bennett Haselton! I am Bennett Haselton!
i bought an athlon 2400+ a couple of months ago to use as a mythtv box. after rebates, the memory was $15, the hard drive was $40, the case was $40 and the motherboard & chip were -$10.
Back aroun '83 or so, one plac I worked we got an 3B2/400 (I think) computer from AT&T to port our software. This line of computers was designed to work in the phone switching system, but also being marketed to businesses as a pretty powerful (for its day) multiuser microcomputer. We also got a little houseguest, which we didn't realize until the computer wouldn't boot and smelled nasty. The little guy had chewed through a cable he oughtn't have and got himself fried.
In any case, I was a young, junior guy in those days, otherwise we'd have found out sooner. Any new toys that come into my shop get taken apart.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Larger customers get special treatment. Ballmer recently told a group of current MS customers / resellers to contact him personally if StarOffice gains ground. I'm sure the same goes for OpenOffice.org (OOo).
Or you might find that OOo is faster, better, cheaper and, though it goes without saying, is supported on more platforms and uses an open file format.
Right now, you'd be a fool not to use that leverage to get a discount from MS. That's your worst option, a discount.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
I can't think where I would get drives and RAM and still stay under $100 unless they where "donated".
I think you could take something like an XBox for example, they are essentially the same machine as the one I just built, and the retail for $200-300 CDN, which I think is going to be about right if you did it your self.
FYI - There is quite a lot of information out there about using an XBox as a server (with Linux).
I have 2 machines that can be had for less than $100 each. A Pentium II 300Mhz desktop with a bunch of extra memory thrown in running Arch Linux .7 with Gnome 2.8 and a Pentium I 166Mhz with just enough X to VNC into the desktop.
http://www.retrobox.com/ These guys sell great pc's (rebuilt and tested before selling to you) for dirt. $75.00 gets you a PIII-500, 128MB Ram, 6.4Gb hard drive, Sound, 8MB Video, CD-Rom, and Network card.
Reasonably if you want a 100 dollar computer you have to decide from the start you have no desire to run any system intensive software.
Now the 100 dollar computer with reasonably fast access speed?
You have to limit the OS to a watered down version of a full version. What are you looking at though? One hundred dollars for a computer which usually includes software. No sane layman is gonna buy a software-less computer for 100 bucks.
So the best solution I see is the example set forth on the movie The First 20 Million is Always the Hardest. An amusing movie with an interesting computer concept.
Basically the computer in question, the PC99, has very limited hardware but it uses the internet for all of its software needs. You connect to your own interface really. Of course in this movie they use 3D-Transparent-Hologram's and Laser-Guided-Desktop-Movement. A little futuristic but the idea is there. You have a computer with a processor, ram and a network interface and you basically download everything you see and use for read/write access.
So it would be good for word processing and internet/email but scratch any intentions to play intensive games or use intensive applications.
I bought my first VT100 with a nice monochrome display with a 300-baud modem for less than $50. I was able to dial up a variety of UNIX boxes and do lots of things. Ah the speed of 300 Baud - sure beat my old modem with a speed of 30 baud on regular computer with a process hungry OS.
About the only way to do get $100 PC would to use a modern day equivalent; a dummy terminal that boots and runs over a LAN/Dial-up. Your dummy terminal could even have a USB port to allow saving using those USB memory sticks that seem to drop in price every day. The dummy terminal could even be designed to boot and run off the USB memory stick! That would allow you to have your entire OS and your own programs on your memory stick (Although you would need the OS and you software to fit in one of these USB devices (Less than 256 Megs)). This would allow you to take your entire system with you when you leave the dummy terminal - instant security! The dummy terminal would just provide a connection to the Internet and means to enter and view data. Would work great for Cyber Cafe - regular users could have there own USB key (stick). You then could just ghost a new image onto the stick after it was returned - no worries about someone else viewing pages you visited and just about no risk of viruses. You could surf at your cyber cafe knowing that you could take the system's entire memory with you in your pocket after your done.
Ah to sleep... to dream...
My Sig indicates the end of the comment I posted.
Personnally, I was hoping Sony was going to make the PS2 nice cheap compact computer. They just needed to sell a keyboard & mouse upgrade with a USB thumbdrive to save files to. They could then try and get SUN to partner with them and sell a PS2 version of Star Office.
It would be a pain in the butt to change out discs for each program, but PS2 users are used to that already.
I've just sold my old K6-II 500 for R$ 100. I used to run Slackware 9.1 with no problems. My wife used to run WinXP + OfficeXP, and also some games like Half-life (ok, I used to play HalfLife).
It's a good machine:
Soyo Motherboard
RAM: 256 MB SDRAM PC133
Diamond Stealth III S540
SoundBlaster AWE32
It's a good option for those who only wants to use office suites.
-=-=-=-=
I know life isn't fair, but why can't it ever be un-fair in MY favor!?
... Open office runs just fine on a 266 laptop. On 64 whole megs of ram.
Its slow on boot up, but it runs pretty after its going.
There ain't no reason the older machines can't run it, you just can't expect it to have big balls and run like superman on steroids.
-- RJ
I'm not so sure it's financially possible for a company to make a new PC designed to be saleable for under $100. People have mentioned the xbox and buying individual parts that are "new", but have been in stock since they were top-of-the-line, but those ways won't work, for reasons I'll get into.
Reason #1: Look at the pricing curve for parts. a 20 gig hard drive doesn't sell below $30, but a 120 gig harddrive can be had for $39. Why? Because nobody is MAKING 20 gig harddrives anymore. The ones you see are just overstock.
Reason #2: In addition to the lack of market for those computers, we have the lack of profit. Just because we can FIND a new motherboard for $10 or w/e doesn't mean it will be around for long. It's not being manufactured for that price, it's just being sold off since there's an overstock. $10 won't buy parts, manufacturing cost and developing costs for a board. We'd like to believe that mass producing makes everything cost a penny, but it's just not true. Somebody's salary has to be paid with the profits, and they don't want to make fractions of pennies.
Reason #3: The reason the XBox is so cheap is because the profit plan for the company involves the sale of games. They figure nobody will use the system without buying games. That's why they are so pissed at people buying them and modding them - they are actually losing money, since those people will potentially never buy a game.
A PII/233 system generally comes in about about UKP30 inc postage over here. Buy two stick both disks/ram in the one box and keep the other bits as spares.
Funny, they used to say the same thing about computation.
Sure there's zillions of examples of computation being done less efficently in the real world than they're contemplating over at the university, but even the most backward way of doing it still has it's roots in math and academic papers.
Economics is a mix of philosophy and math. Good economists know where those dividing lines exist within each of the respective economic theories, and know how not to mix incompatible philosophies or select inappropriate models. Bad economists pick up on a few key ideas from these models, but expect them to work like physical laws disregarding the motivations behind the statements.
Just look at the supposed "law" of supply and demand. The ideas behind such a model is valid, but the model is inappropriately applied to most real world examples because real world examples have interfering factors like jurisdiction, proximity, controlled markets, etc.
there was a story in the O GLOBO newspaper (http://arquivoglobo.globo.com/pesquisa/texto_grat is.asp?codigo=1866178 - in portuguese) about the investiment of the brazilian government to release a U$100 dollar computer (actually 300 brazilian reais, 102 dollars yesterday) untill christmas, "with quality hardware and a program with low cost 20 hours dial-up connection per month". there is a 7.5 million potential homes bennefited. the computer would come with open source sortware.
OK, can we build a reasonable PC for just $100 and a copy of Linux?
The cheapest reasonably modern (Athlon XP 2000) barebones system on Pricewatch goes for $76.
Now you'll have to excuse me, I think I'll spend the rest of the morning finding a cure for cancer, and after that, on to the really hard problems, like deciding what to cook for supper.
This is a totally cool, low-cost system and definitely worth looking at. Its made for embedded applications, however, from my past experience in the oilfield, is easily adapted to a standard rig-up. http://www.octagonsystems.com/CPUpages/2040.html The PDF version is http://www.octagonsystems.com/images/pdfs/2040.pdf .
-- Game Developers: Stop porting badly-textured games from crappy console systems!
...Garage sales are full of $100 computers. Sometimes less!
Proverbs 21:19
100 dollars is the hard ware cost. This allows them to sell an OS(closer to 100 then 300 btw) to millions of people who don't currently own a computer, or whose computer can't run MS's latest OS.
They have saturatied the lower middle class and up market. The adoption rate of MS's Office 2003, and XP is way below MS's plan. I think only 2% of office users use 2003.
Computers are getting so cheap now, that assemply costs are the highest cost. I expect either the 200 dollar computer(sans monitor) will be the bottom for some time. I got a 200 dallar computer from frys a month ago. It's pretty good:
Athlon 1800XP
128Megs(I bumped this up for 84 dollar above the 200 dollar mark, but I use it for developing so 128 megs was not enough)
onboard video,sound,network
case, power supply
keyboard
mouse.
The only issue I have found is that when I hold down the right ctrl and press an arrow key my monitor display rotates 90 or 180 degrees.
the funny thing is, it comes with Lycos, but the direction tell you how to install windows OS.
sadly, The lycos install puts you on as root with a password of root. At no point does it ask you to enter a user name and password to use. Very irritating
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
There will always be a segment of the population that directly associates price and quality. I know a man who runs a collection of clothing stores. He charges higher prices in the more affluent neighborhoods not because he's bringing in better products (the stores carry the same inventory), but because his wealthier customers won't buy "cheap garbage". In any "normal" store you would expect a graph of sales volume vs price to look like an inverse-square curve but with snobbish customers it's definitely a bell curve.
They must have gotten the facts on the cost of eating their own dog food. While the cost of their own software is zero to them, I'm sure that supporting a large Microsoft run network is consuming a disproportionate chunk of their budget.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
http://www.freedesktoppc.com/default.aspx?referer= 8765355
there's tons of perfectly good used pc's and used parts out there. I just bought a dual p2-450 rig for example off ebay for $80 ($100 w/shipping) that is now doing file and print sharing and crunching folding@home.
This rig flies with Yoper Linux I was flat out amazed. I still ended up putting one of my XP Pro licences on it though because I ran into too many troubles making my hp psc printer work through samba but even with winxp it is fast and reliable.
So if M$ really thinks there's a market for $100 pc's in so called "developing" countries then people should set up biz's that recycle these used pc's and sell them over "there".
Why didn't Ballmer suggest this though? - Simple answer, because he won't make money on that. He knows ms makes their money through oem sales and notice he made this stupid "need" revealed on the heels of the announcement of the stripped down winxp they are developing for these "developing" countries? So what's he really getting at? -
My conspiracy theory answer: When the XBox came out I told people this was ms's first move into making their own computers, people laughed. But with the rumors that xbox 2 could be a full media computer keyboard, windows and all no ones laughing now. I think those who suggested that ms's answer for this so called "$100" need is an embedded version of windows that users "subscribe" to use and is basically an advanced dumb terminal are correct.
I predict they will either make it themselves or they'll have a licence to select few oem's to put it embedded and the oem's will be the ones that collect the subscription fee.
The most expensive part of a computer these days is STILL the monitor, but a custom version of windows on a rig like this could automatically blow up the text on the tv when an app that needs more clarity is called on such as email.
This plan of theirs would be in addition to their other windows products of course not a replacement.
Another nice thing about buying from one supplier: you only have to carry arround a small number of drivers to make your user's desktops right again after they have fubared some setting trying to get their [forbidden piece of hardware] or [forbidden desktop novelty] to run.
The really bad thing about using Dell is that they use custom power supplies and motherbords. I can't get a replacement power supply for about six machines I have in my boneyard, because Dell does not sell the part. Oh, and they do make each and every internal cable just short enough that you can't upgrade or change anything around without getting a differnt cable as well.
Dell does have some decently designed cases though. Most of their desktops are easy to get into and fix, and most parts are easy to swap out for others, even from different models. :)
Dell Servers are another story, but that's where 4-hour on-site service contracts come in handy
If/when a $100 PC hits the market, customers will see that they can buy a tangible working PC for dirt cheap. Oh, but then they'll need software for it. At that point, they'll really start questioning why their OS and office suite each cost as much or more than the hardware. The software is easily replacable by either illicit copies or legitimate copies of linux and openoffice. It's far easier for a customer to see the value in tangible hardware (that they can resell if they want) than the value of intangible components like software (which according to their EULA they can't resell). I simply do not see how a drastic reduction in PC hardware prices benefits Microsoft. Microsoft software is taking up an increasing percentage of the cost of a PC, and in the end this could kill them. Remember, their OS and office suites are their only consistent profit makers.
Here in Vancouver you can get a reasonably fast PC for around $300, screw Balmer this is cheap enough. Most of my clients balk at the cost of MS Software, WinXP Pro (oem) $189, MS Office 2003 Basic (oem) $229. And most of them would be okay with this cost if it was okay to install that version of office on all of their computers or if you could purchase a cheap license to install that copy of office or windows on multiple computers. Why can't customers purchase reasonably priced license plans from Microsoft? Its outrageous.
So the best solution I see is the example set forth on the movie The First 20 Million is Always the Hardest. An amusing movie with an interesting computer concept.
In the book, they describe a terribly underpowered computer. (No fancy holograms or what-have-you.) The concept I found interesting, was the platform independent software. But we have that now...
Required reading for internet skeptics
I perused some of my favorite hardware sites and the best I could come up with is in the $149 to $179 range. And that is for what I would consider a reasonable box that could run popular open source applications.
So I don't believe it is possible at this point but I also don't want to see everyone in the hardware industry struggling to meet Ballmer's challenge. Why should everyone in the hardware industry work even harder to destroy our miniscule margins so MS can keep their 80% margins?
The hardware industry is extrememly competitive almost to the point of self destruction. I know first hand from working in the industry and talking to others. i.e. I was at AMD's fab25 in Austin a couple weeks ago looking at some equipment in the fab and they were running full steam. You would think they are making money hand over fist, however, in talking with an engineer it turns out they were just getting by because they were trying to cut prices to the bare minimum to compete.
If anything I'd say that MS needs to embrace competition in their industry so they can drive their prices down the same way hardware manufacturers have over the years. In my opinion Windows isn't worth crap, but I'm sure people in India and China would be more interested in paying MS $10 for their product instead of $299.
Sorry, kind of a rant, but Ballmer's statement combined with the stress from working in the hardware industry just burns me up!
burnin
How can you take somebody who's obviously got such glaring masculinity issues seriously? I can't even think about his name without thinking about his boy parts.
It's amazing that they want to make something for less than $100, yet it's so expensive to recycle computer hardware.
Compare that to the situation in paper industry - to make 1 ton of paper you need 2 trees, 240,000 liters of water, and 4750 kWh. To make the same amount of paper from recycled material you need 0 trees, 180 liters of water, and half the energy.
Simpy
40 Gigs was the cheapest drive they sell on NewEgg. If I'd been willing to spen more time to go to another site to find a 20gig, I bet I could have gotten pretty close to $100. But then, I'd rather spend a little more to get some slightly more powerful that a vanilla 1.3 Athlon.
Sell Flash drives for holding user data that can be used on $1000 public kiosk-style computers.
256 MB USB flash drive: ~ $25
Monthly cost, say, $5
= 2 years of computer access for $100
For the company, each computer would need power & maintenance, but, assuming that you put a cellphone-style "minutes" limit on the computers, this is doable.
Many people in 3rd world countries already use Cybercafe's, this would just be cheaper & more convenient. Balmer wants personal computers because people don't buy software for computers they don't own.
I don't know what all the fuss is about. If you're talking about any PC kit, not necessarily new or state of the art, then loads of places sell very low-priced kit these days.
One of my colleagues just bought a pretty good Dell desktop including the monitor etc. for only 160 UKP, through an official Dell channel. He saved around 75% of list price because it was refurbished, but it was in full working order, and with guarantees etc. anyway. The spec was of a typical PC maybe 6 months - 1 year old. That easily matches the sort of systems most people are putting together here in price/performance, and it's off the shelf.
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
What about System on a Chip??
I used to hear a lot of hype for "system on a chip"...
You put the controller chips onto the cpu; you could even put the ram on the chip too. If mass produced, it would make it quite easy to get that cheap. Possibly could even have 2 chips---cpu + everything else.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
I want to go back to the hardware days!
expensive computer and cheap software---back in the 80s when I could get office software for around $30; most stuff was under $30. An OS was something that came with the computer, and nobody I knew even thought of buying an OS update every few years.
Pay high for hardware, the vendors bundle open source software and support/test it. Software is cheap or free. Vendors pay open source programmers to support the hardware and do things to cut down on costs of support. (by removing bugs making it easier == less phone calls--higher support profit.)
Viruses and bug fixes seem to be never ending, so I don't see this model ever fading away as a result of over refined 'perfect' software.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
You people forget that, those cheap computers are more importantly required in developing countries than in USA. The zero shipping,the sites u mention etc are for USA.Its not that easy to get free comps in developing countries.
Why does yahoo do this
Nice to see Rag pickers post in slashdot.:-)
And Where exactly is the Garbage u pick located?
Why does yahoo do this
I must admit that I sort-of miss the Dell 1500SC chassis, but the 1600SC has not treatedly poorly.
Kinetic stupidity has a new brand leader: Allen Zadr.
I bought FIVE of them, $85 ea on EBay, including LAN dongle and new image. The tiny speakers are crap but have them hooked into stereos and boom boxes to stream mp3s from my main computer to different parts of the house (large house). My winter project is to learn enough QNX to make the Audreys work as speakerphones and an intercom system.
Heck, a $99 price point worked out so well for I-Opener, right?
Uh, wrong.
Hmmm - I bought one of Fry's brand new $99 PCs, at their grand opening in Chicago, loaded with Lindows ... I know that was a one time deal, but - hey! - it was possible, and other deals should come, then ...
== With enough Will Power, one could move mountains. With enough Brains, one would just leave them where they are ==
All of that said, as an IT director, my job is not to create restrictive policy. My job is to make sure that everyone has the tools they need to do their jobs. That includes having a procedure in place for getting new software approved for use within two weeks.
If some employees use their CD writers for illegal purposes, I will deal with those employees through thier respective supervisor. That risk is not large enough for me to force everyone to have to go to a central-location to write CDs for shipping to customers and potential customers.
Further, software itself is continually becoming more multi-media aware. Business Software is talking more and more frequently, and the 'default beep' is the same from every piece of software, because nobody writes software for beep anymore.
Computers are multi-function and multi-purpose. If I wanted to buy a tool for one job, then I would hand everyone a pile of pocket tools; (Sharp Organizer, Franklin Dictionary, TI Calculator, etc.)
Kinetic stupidity has a new brand leader: Allen Zadr.
What is Ballmer thinking - I would love to see a $100 PC be able to run Longhorn but the reality is it will never happen. Operating systems are getting way too bloated for cheap hardware.
Oh, we just have a few PowerEdge 4400 servers. Nice beasts, but if they get sick, not so fun. Any time you deal with rackmount designs, space is always an issue, and internal component designers seem to have a different idea of "easy access" than I do.
It's also not fun to have the phone support try and talk you through a solution you know probably won't solve your problem, but they won't release an on-site tech unless you go through the hoops listed in their support manual.
Though that particular incident was a few years ago, and since then, things have improved. Now when I call, and ask for a technician to come on site, per the very expensive support contract that my company paid for, I usually get one.
A courier brings out a part from a central supply wharehouse, and usually a few minutes later (excellent timing, often) a contract-technician comes out (usuall from WANG, of all places) and replaces the power supply/backplane/cooling fan or what have you.
It's just that the configuation of the servers is so differnt from desktops that I'm not used to mucking about in their innards. And, because of design ideas that try to fit the most possible components in the least amount of volume, there isn't much room to poke about if you aren't really famillair with the hardware. That's all.
Here's a little adventure with a 486.. So first-generation Pentiums should do the trick.
printf($randomline(sigs.txt) \n "-- "$randomline(authors.txt));
-- myself
In the shorter term: begin! What do you need The GIMP to do that it doesn't? Load huge files? Load
I'll submit bugzilla reports for you. Grab yourself a copy (preferably of 2.0.5 'coz that's what I'll be using to try to replicate any breakage), load some things up in your spare time, fire away.
CC'ed via email so you can tell me where to fetch your test images from.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
No, the market wasn't inelastic (zero elasticity). The elasticity was negative: the higher price increased demand.
This is actually quite common, and not only in software, since price is a principal indicator of quality. Double your price and you will quite often increase your unit sales.
Older systems are better.. but even @ 75W - I believe 50W is a more accurate estimate:
75W = 0.075kW
0.075kW x 24h x 365 = 657kWh/year
657 x $0.07kWh = $46 per year. 0.07kWh is a little bit high, but I am unsure about US rates for electricity.
Given a nice secure OpenBSD router has a lot of advantages over the flavour of the month from Linksys.. I don't think it's that bad an option.
..don't panic
www.sub300.com
Ah, but you forgot that states are allowed to impose arbitrary censorship on public computers. If we force the poor people to use library computers for access, how are they going to get to their porn? If I were more cynical, I might ask whether we really want these people reproducing rather than blowing their wad at a computer...
This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.