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Apple Reveals Mac OS X 10.2, 17" iMac, Windows iPod
The Address Book is now system-wide, accessible from many applications, and even has Bluetooth integration. Jobs dialed his cell phone via Address Book, and then when someone called him back on that phone, the computer popped up with the caller's name in Address Book. He had the option to pick up the phone or reply with a short text message.
iSync is a new system for synching your contacts and calendars with GPRS cell phones, Palms, and iPods; so Palms and cell phones are now a part of the digital hub. The iSync program shows you connected devices, and allows configuration of what to sync, and when. The demo showed a complete sync of an address book on the computer to the cell phone, again over Bluetooth. iSync will also allow integration with .mac to update your contacts and calendars between multiple computers, and will be available as a free download in September.
The Mail app now has much better searching and spam filtering, and inline QuickTime (no, that won't be abused ...).
Rendezvous will allow such things as automatic accessing of other's playlists in iTunes, accessing USB printers on the network, and more, with "zero configuration" (I hope there is some configuration, so I can opt in or out of such things). Epson, HP, and Lexmark will have Rendezvous-compatible printers. Jobs didn't mention any way to share USB printers between Mac OS and Mac OS X.
iChat, the new instant messaging program, and iCal, the new shared calendar program, can work with the $100-per-year .mac subscription, or with the free AOL IM account and any web server. iChat will use Rendezvous for finding local users, and shared calendars can be sent via iChat or mail. iCal will ship in September, as a free download.
Sherlock 3 has been completely rewritten, using Internet services (SOAP? XML-RPC?) instead of trying to parse HTML. The demo showed movie listings with embedded trailers, eBay searches with intelligently organized information and pictures, Google image searching, and a Yellow Pages search that knows your ZIP code and sorts by distance, and shows directions and maps.
iTunes 3 is out today, with new features such as rating songs, keeping track of how often songs are played, playing back all songs at the same volume, integration with audible.com, and "Smart Playlists" with rulesets so they are automatically populated (e.g., "25 most played songs", or "500 MB of songs where playcount is 0", to play songs you've never listened to). It is only available for Mac OS X, and requires registration with an email address.
For the iPod, Apple lowered prices on the 5GB and 10GB models ($299, $399), and introduced a 20GB model ($499). The 10GB and 20GB have a solid state scroll wheel, a door to protect the FireWire port, a remote control, and a case. The playlist counts, Smart Playlists, and audible.com integration sync between the iPod and iTunes. Sound volume check has also been added to the iPod. The new 10GB model is 7.692 percent thinner than the previous version.
Also added to the iPod, in addition to the contacts, is calendars, synched with iCal, so it can really act as a PDA for most people. Jobs also announced Windows versions of iPod, synching with musicmatch and including a FireWire 6-to-4 pin cable.
The new iMac has a 17" widescreen display at 1440x900, with an NVIDIA GeForce4 MX, G4/800, and 80GB hard drive.
Jobs also noted that there are 2.5 million Mac OS X users, that 77 percent of owners of new Macs keep Mac OS X as the primary OS, and that they estimate there will be 5 million Mac OS X users by the end of the year, representing 20% of all Mac users using the new OS in the first 24 months.
Apple showed some new ads in the "Switch" campaign, including a student who lost her paper on Windows, a student whose CDs get messed up in his bag (although they didn't point out that he can use iPod under Windows now), and a comedian who ended his commercial with, "My name is Will Ferrell ... and I'm a porn actor."
What? The bug fixes cost HOW MUCH? How many times do I have to buy this damned OS?
Napster-to-go says "Fill and refill your compatible MP3 player", which is a lie. It's not MP3. It's WMA with DRM.
So, I have an iBook. I got the iBook with OS 9 and OS X preloaded because Apple knew OS X was not quite good enough yet for sole use of that OS. I basically tested the software for Apple, and it does have some bugs, and it quite a bit slower than OS 9.
Now I have to pay to get an updated version?
Moon Macrosystems. Sun's biggest competitor.
It's the $99 iTools (.mac) which I'm not happy about. and what about people on the other side of the pond? how do we purchase this? I've been to the site, but it's sitll under construction and things are still quite buggy.
BTW, anyone had sucess d/l iTunes3? that looks darn kewl.
Fight Crime - Shoot Back!
The wide-screen iMac specs page gives the native
resolution of the 17" iMac as 1440x900. This is a 16:10 display ratio, which is about as
close as any monitor I know of gets to the
Golden Ratio, (1 + sqrt(5)/2), or approximately 1.618.
Clearly Apple is trying to channel Pyramid Power
to sell more computers.
GollyGee Blocks -- 3D creativity software for kids.
i was having some problems putting together a new cutting edge x86 system, and said fuck it. now i'm just pricing some G4s. apple, you have succeeded finally in convincing me to buy me first apple since my IIGS. (oh... you know i had the COLOR screen on that folks)
MARIJUANA, SHROOMS, X: ONLINE?! - E
wow.
All of a sudden this picture I did months ago seems all the more relevant...
a grrl & her server
"That's less than $1 for each major feature," he quipped."
Bah, I can get Windows XP for only $99 and get thousands of bugs^H^H^H^Hfeatures for my money!
------
Today's Top Deals
Ive been waiting for this since i 1st played with a good friend's ipod. He hads tryed all the windows work around but his mac works just so much better.
Mikey
I've always been the kinda guy to fall for the girl dressed like an eskimo.
If you are curious about what was updated today, just go to apple.com and hit refresh a couple times... it will eventually scroll through Jaguar/Imac/Ipod/Itunes/etc...
- what is the definition of simultanagnosia?! I've been meaning to look it up!
The upgrade for existing users is listed as $19.95. $129 is the full cost.
how are they doing the syncing of calender and contacts with phones ?
regards
john jones
Doesn't a demonstration of such kickass tech (especially the Bluetooth stuff) realised today for the consumer show just how many streets ahead Apple are?
This is all stuff that should exist under Windows, but doesn't. Apple has, after so many years, arrived at the point of equality (and now usurption) to everything else in the market - they can only produce better and better products.
Yay.
Neat. Ummm, at the risk of sounding stupid, what is a 6-to-4 pin cable?
It's just a pity that my major source of bandwidth is at work and they'd never ever let me open up my machine to stick in a firewire card :(
Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
8^P
iTunes 3 is out today, with new features such as rating songs, keeping track of how often songs are played, playing back all songs at the same volume
.mac subscription
Fine Print:Your listening habits will probably be sent to an advertiser
iChat, the new instant messaging program, and iCal, the new shared calendar program, can work with the $100-per-year
Fine Print:Microsoft made us put that in, thats where they helped, eh..some of that Software as Service crap...
If everyone started doing this, interesting scenarios/questions emerge..
1) Would Apple let users to substract one dollar per bug as they are discovered ?
2) Would Microsoft start paying their users to use Longhorn ?
3) Somebody please tell me why Linux is free ?
Flamebait/OffTopic/Troll..Is that all you got???
Rapid Nirvana
I think I've mentioned before - I'd love to get a new iMac, but lack of software is holding me back. Not the generalised moan you often hear about, but three specific areas:
Sadly, I have to conclude the iMac is still not a viable machine for me. Damned shame - I'd love to get one otherwise.
Cheers,
Ian
Good:
.Mac - nice new features
.Mac pricing. There should be a scaled-back free edition, like the other services providers offer. I expounded on this in a comment on the initial .Mac thread earlier today.
- iPod upgrades and price cuts.
- iPod for Windows
- Jaguar before Labor Day
- All the new software tools
- Wide-screen iMac!
- Price cut on the old Superdrive iMac (though that's the original price pre-hike)
- iSync - way cool
-
Bad:
- The new iMac is still PC100/800 MHz
- No "upgrade edition" of Jaguar. A $49 or around that version of Jaguar that would only install over an existing MacOS X install would be good. I should get some bonus for being an early user.
-
- No support for either USB 2.0 or Firewire 2 yet. Introducing the new iMac with that would have been nice.
Indifferent:
- The iPod accessory kits (pretty much all available in the 3rd party market already)
- The pricing of the new iMac
- The lack of changes to the other price points (I was expecting across-the-board iMac price cuts, but no biggie)
-- Josh Turiel
"2. Do not eat iPod Shuffle."
Why? Does dell chase all of the UPS trucks down and switch out their shipping hardware?
That's cool!
iI ithink ithat ithey iare itaking ithis i'i' inaming ithing ito ifar.
yes, Darwin is available for x86 platforms. However, you'll miss the great Aqua user interface that comes with OS X. You could run KDE3, which is not as much fun...
I've seen a fair few overinflated claims before, but a scroll wheel with no moving parts is an impossibility. Unless the wheel doesn't move, in which case it's just no damn good.
Like car accidents, most hardware problems are due to driver error.
...that the "up to date" program will once again entail the trading in of a mac os X 10.1 coupon for an upgrade to Jaguar for $19.95. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (as if I need to say that here), but isn't that what they did for 10.1? I could've sworn that 10.1 was available for $19.95 when you used a 10.0 coupon. Pleaseopleaseoplease let it be so. Otherwise I'm hosed for a while. $129 for a "new" OS isn't in the budget just now.
looking at the .mac homepage, it appears that the $50/first year will provide a "full mac.com email" account and that a "full mac.com account" gives you more idisk storage. it doesn't say the free accounts are going away.
am i looking in the wrong place?
go get it
I was pricing out G4's...well used 400mhz models go for nearly $700, when I can build ONE HELL of a PC for that price. And the parts would be new.
Yeah, yeah, Macs are nice looking, well designed, etc etc. I'll probably just shell the $$ out for one.
Anyone know a good^H^H^H^Hcheap place to buy a 1-2 year old used Mac?
It sure would be nice if they had announced that I could spend like... $500 to get my 15" screen "switch"ed (HA!) to a 17" widescreen... oh well... once my flatpanel iMac becomes really obsolete I'll just buy their wearable computer that they will be selling in 2005...
with the 17" imac coming in at £1,649.00 in the UK, yet the US price being $1,999.00 which is £1,274.54. So why the £374.46 price difference? UK compaines manage to sell goods to the USA at pretty much the same price as the domestic market-and if they do not there is troble.
Just one little interesting tidbit i noticed that is getting kind of lost in the noise: Did anyone else notice the little note on the Jaguar page? Apparently the 10.2 developer tools use GCC 3.1!
:)
I found this interesting, as i had heard that the bulk of the linux distributions had not yet managed to migrate to GCC 3. Neat to see Apple is staying on top of this whole UNIX-technology thing
Irritable, left-wing and possibly humorous bumper stickers and t-shirts
The NASDAQ is up as I write this, an hour or so after Steve's keynote. But Apple stock is down 13%.
I'm generally "Interesting," "Insightful," and even "Funny" here. What the hell happens to me at parties?
Typically you set up the right button to ctrl-click, which is the standard Mac way to "give me a menu of less-common options for what to do with this."
I'm back on the zero-button Mac mouse now because, well, it works :)
I took that comic strip to be part of the well-deserved backlash against the French , rather than Apple. Of course, when you insult the French, you're just preaching to the choir, too.
As a Mac user for nearly 18 years, I'm quite happy that Apple is now charging some modest fees for their value-added services.
.mac, they've got to fight similar interests at Microsoft.
This is something that Microsoft's hedgemony WON'T let other PC manufacturers do - at least not to the extent that Apple has shown here. If Gateway (Dell, whoever) wants to create a value-added portal like
Apple has no such conflict - they own the whole ball of wax, so the hardware and OS sides of the company can work together to produce a best-in-class (and don't pretend they aren't class-leading or at least very innovative and polished) set of services for Mac users - for free in many cases (iTunes, iPhoto) and for a modest yearly charge in other cases.
My ISP charges $20.00 a month for a 5MB mailox and 50MB of FTP space. Apple is providing more than that for $100.00 a year. That's half off for me - for more space.
Owning a mac has never looked better. Apple is again taking positive steps to increase revenue growth and reduce it's dependence on volatile hardware sales. Reasonable prices for services that generate recurring revenue...new product refreshes on a regular basis to win the fence sitters and an advertising program that _is_ winning over some converts (right here in my office) - rather unfunny Penny Arcade cartoons notwithstanding.
Good job, Apple.
Firewire has two different types of cables, the 4 and the 6 pin style. 6 pin is quite a bit larger, is used on all modern Macintoshes and can get quite a bit of power to the device. 4 pins is smaller but can't get the power to the device. Most pc's use the 4 pin variety but Apple stuck with the full sized 6 pin on both the Mac and the iPod so you can power and yes, charge the ipod from the Mac's power supply. With Windows they supply a more standard 4-6 pin cable which means you need a seperate way to charge it since one connector doesn't not have the 2 pins for power. Apple usually comes through and supplies an adapter to charge from the wall outlet.
From maccentral:
u ar ship.php
http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/0207/17.jag
Mac OS X 10.2 will cost US$129. It will be on sale Aug. 24. If you buy a Mac before then, you can get Jaguar for $19.95.
You are sounding like one of those wacky open source advocates now. You should feel privleged that you can get such fine quality software for such a low price. Stop complaining!
This sig has been temporarily disconnected or is no longer in service
is it me or is ttp://www.apple.com/itunes/download/ completly screwed?
Semantics is the gravity of abstraction
I can't believe it took them this long to stick it to M$. Here Apple has this great product, almost universally rated the best of the HD mp3 players, and they waited this long to move into the windows user base?
And what about those vendors who just spent the last few months producing software to make the iPod work on Windows. If they really are partners with Apple, why didn't they know they were wasting their time, or at least won't be getting as much out of their software as they had hoped?
...begins in wonder
With that said, giving a $20 upgrade only from people ordering today is not enough time for an OS that ships in a month. Any software vendor that ships an upgrade gives upgrade pricing to everyone that bought within the last 3-4 months. Apple should at least follow that model.
I'm a bit bewildered though as to whether it's really $100 for *everyone* - I registered my .mac account way back when in the US. Now back in Europe, it is asking me for $100, even though my local currency is the Euro.
I think I might wait the full 75 days to buy at the reduced $49 price, because $49 today=49Eu, but in 75 days, $49 will probably only cost me 35 Euros or thereabouts.
As the first keynote I've watched, I have to say I was impressed with how well it came off. Jobs had a few glitches along the way with some of the new feature demos, but recovered nicely. There're a lot of people saying Apple's so bad for charging for "what was free" but the thing is, they're doing what had to be done. iTools cost them money, and a pretty substantial chunk I'm sure. And .Mac will actually do nothing but improve the iTools featureset. iCal, five times the storage space, and iSync could make .Mac quite useful to a lot of people. I'm not one of them yet, but I definitely respect the effort they've gone to. Yes, I'm a bit upset that they're taking away my email address - and wouldn't be too surprised if they turned around and let people keep the email addresses for nothing if people complain enough - but I won't get pissed off.
And $100 a year isn't a bad price, considering the integration you get. One service to offer all those features, rather than five services and a mishmash of programs to do it.
And even though $129 seems a bit of a shock for 10.2, it really isn't a point upgrade so much as it is a rewrite level. Compare 10.2 to 7.5, if you're familiar with Mac history. 10.2 gives you a whole new rendering layer for new Mac machines, a hell of a speed boost from the reports I've heard, and several new features like iCal, iSync and Rendevouz. I'll probably pay for it. I -would- like a $49 upgrade for 10.1 owners, but I think Apple's probably feeling enough of a financial pinch not to do that.
I think the part of it all that would be most respected by Slashdot readers is the fact that open standards were touted quite loudly. SyncML and Rendevouz (zeroconf) primarily. They might not be opening up as much as we want in some areas, but at least when they're moving in a new direction they look like they're trying to make the best of it.
And I've decided people who push for open sourcing -everything- in OS X, or porting to x86 are just idiots with no business sense. That would kill Apple's income. 'nuff said.
My own pointless vanity vintage computing page
After 10.2 is out? Or does the support of people with 10.1's stop once 10.2 is avail? I'm referring to software updates, security patches, etc.
I just purchased OSX a few months ago to put on an old second hand iBook I bought, and Steve, I don't really wanna pay more money for it just yet. How's about making us pay for OS XI?
I'm actually looking for a good reason to put OpenBSD on my iBook and just hone it down with WMaker, OpenOffice, Opera, etc.
I love OSX, but if I have to fork out money every year for the latest patches then you can get fucked (Karma = Excellent is boring).
Plus, if need be, my next notebook will be one that supports OpenBSD the best (hint hint) and will not be the TiBook I really have been wanting.
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
I just bought my G4 Titanium PowerBook less then a week ago. I paid $5000 for it (Australian Dollars). And thats with the Student Discount, else it would have been close to $6000! Thats a SHITLOAD of money.
Now a week later, OSX 10.2 is announced (i have been waiting for this for ages), and they want me to pay another $129USD for it? (About $260AUD).
Highway robbery!
How about.... NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Apple is becoming like M$. Charging for their Win98 to Win98SE 'bug fix'.
Time to find an OSX 10.2 ISO on IRC.... I just spent a shitload of money on apple, i'm not forking out anymore for some time. (Tho i DO want their airport base station. But again, at $699 AUD, i am not forking out till the price goes down)
D.
You can tell how powerful someone is by the magnitude of the crime they can commit and be able to get away with.
Um... two button mice ARE supported on mac's, they just don't COME with 2 button mice.
iSync, therefore iDrown
If you have a Mac, and open the box for it, you will notice that you have three Mac OS Up To Date Coupons (I have an iBook with coupons that say I bought my iBook with OS 9.2 and OS X 10.1 installed. There are three coupons and when you use them you only have to pay $20 for the upgrade, not the full retail price. I don't see what people are getting so worked up about. When I bought my Dell with Windows ME preinstalled, I had to pay full price to get Windows XP for it. This is a heck of a lot better.
But I do agree with the mouse bit. Thank you, Kensington.
The iPod news is great. Especially if it were to have happened a few months ago when I actually purchased the thing.
I appreciate the response to what the market wanted. But half of the indication that the market wanted a Windows version iPod was that some people (read: me) bought it and worked around the mac-only restriction. Are there not going to be any updates?
Interesting enough, my wheel has deteriated a bit, and when I wrote CS for Apple telling them about it, they said that what I was describing was "not a common problem" and that it didn't "inhibit use of the iPod" so it really wasn't a problem. I wonder why they released a touch-sensitive, non-moving wheel if it wasn't such a common problem.
The reason working with Apple is a hassle is because of releases like this. While I would shit my pants to be able to switch my iPod with one with a touch sensitive wheel... fine, that's understandable. Such is the progression of technology. But a carrying case? It's not exactly an "industry first", as Apple likes to say about most things they do. Why not throw it out there when I had purchased my 10 gig beforehand? When I had purchased my Nomad II MG before this mp3 player, it came with a case. Not a good case, mind you, but it still came with it. That was appreciated.
There. Now I just might get an iPod, and by extention, a mac.
Audible.com is the shiznit, and those long commutes are much easier when you've got 18 hours of The Diamond Age or such like to listen to. :-)
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
Huh? Where's that number coming from? Isn't it going to cost $128 for the full OS, and less for OSX.1->OSX.2 Updates?
That's how Apple's always done it before...
Looks like Apple stock took a drubbing despite the announcements, it was down around 14% at 11:45 EST, see this article for more poop.
We have found the enemy and he is us. - Pogo
when will it support my sailboat?
oh, I see. I must pay apple $100 or else I lose my FREE email address in 70-something days??? I hate to state the obvious but I encourage all of you with mac.com email addresses to express your outrage to Apple in email form. Sure, I can understand they need the money but this is just wrong.
Funny, I've already been using Ical for many years.
Of course the one I use was written by Sanjay Ghemawat, not Apple. It doesn't cost a hundred bones a year either.
XJS*C4JDBQADN1.NSBN3*2IDNEN*GTUBE-STANDARD-ANTI-U
Oh yeah, ruby too.
Does anyone know if Apple has a deal with AOL(TW) over the use of AOL Instant Messenger? Or will they just get kicked off the service like so many that have tried before? I personally would like to see the end of the messenger shoot-off and have AIM-compatibility all around.
-Mr. Fusion
I really, really dug the old iTools regime (site hosting was always solid and the email service equally strong). But now, with slight upgrades offered we are now made to pay.. This brings up the question of the value offered by the service (for the $49 / $100).. I guess people out there already know infinately more already then I could gather from research, so how does their service compare to the others out there?
Did anyone else think that Jobs' demo of discovery of other machines to stream live music from is an attempt to avoid sticky copyright issues with copying music a la limewire/kazaa? Perhaps we can all just stream music back and forth, once we "rendevous" to a whole bunch of machines.
How come the new "jaguar" OSX logo looks like it's a cheetah?
http://www.walkingtaco.com
Well, I guess I'll have to run out and get one now. My current iPod is exactly 7.692% too thick! Thank goodness the new one isn't, say, only 7.69*1* percent thinner...
www.clarke.ca
If you dont like the .mac fees, let apple know here This is a general discussion forum for the new .mac service.
The ipod software download is still at the older version 1.1....
Grrr...
Apple finally fixed the visulization plugins in itunes 3 so that you get decent framerates. They also let it take advantage of the powerbooks widescreen display. Nice update
Now, if they just change that silly hemispherical base to a pyramid they'll really have sometime.
I just got off the phone with Apple and they said "you'll have to buy two ipods if you want to use them on Windows and the Mac." Damn it, why can't Apple just for once make it easy.
I am putting off my order of the iPod until I find out if there is a workaround for the "feature". That really bytes too cause it looks like the Apple Store is also offering a free car power adapter with the purchase of the iPod.
Not only is the display 17", at 1440 x 900 with square pixels, it's wide aspect. This is far better for movie playback.
I'm seriously tempted to get one just for watching DVDs.
Says the RIAA: When you EQ, you're stealing bass!
The more I look at it, the more I like the new .mac and I plan on paying for it. The combination of the calendar, webmail, address book, etc. all through web services means I can finally have true integration across my Mac at home and my PC at work. That's easily worth the $8 a month. And once the new iPods are out with contacts and calendars, I will be putting my Palm up for sale on eBay and saying goodbye to Palm Desktop for good.
Now all I need is a new iBook with built-in Bluetooth and I'm good to go.
Having all the nice new iTunes,iPod etc..
is great.But apple should concentrate its efforts
in fixing their internet connection software.
[Internet connection is the dial-up program in
MAc OS X.]. Consumers will get frustrated very
soon with Max OS X if they cannot connect
reliably to the internet.
Mac OS 10.1 has been very flaky in been able
to maintain a connection to the internet
over a 56K modem. Apple has released
various patches but the problems seem
to keep reappearing.
I personally would buy a Apple product
but to recommend OS X to a non-computer
savvy usr is difficult with all the problems
with the dial-up 56K modem.
...when Bill Gates announced that henceforth Windows would be free and "insanely great" that the horrible truth behind the Corporate Personality Transfer Ray became apparent.
Wow, I bet Apple will sell tons of this. For $200 more than the 15" iMac ($100 more than the original price), you a GeForce4 + 80 GB drive + the gorgeous 1440x900 cinematic display instead of GeForce2 + 60 GB + 1024x768. Who would still buy the 15" models?
And of course, it's also a first class and virtually portable Unix workstation with the best GUI on top of a rock solid open source foundation plus FREE and great programming tools, who on earth will ever pay silly money to buy a Wintel PC, or a Sun, HP, IBM or SGI machines? Apple is officially the biggest volume Unix vendor with 2.5 million installed base within the first year of OS X release, and that number will be doubled by the end of this year. Should MS and Dell be concerned ? My answer is yes, especially when considering the new features in the upcoming Jaguar, and the ever quickening innovations that Apple is creating on both the software and the hardware fronts.
$5 / month hosted VPS on linux = awesome!
iThink they've run the concept into the ground. iM tired of seeing everything start with "i". iLl have to avoid them because of this.
"I don't think I ain't" -Thompson's Corollary to Descartes
If I don't want all the features, can I get a stripped-down version for less money? - you know like they want M$ to do?
you might actually have a point there... But how many more people will go out and pickup a mac just because they want an iPod? Yes the iPod is rather keen, but I don't see that many people doing this.
- what is the definition of simultanagnosia?! I've been meaning to look it up!
The article says iSync can sync contacts with GPRS phones. What does GPRS have to do with it? Isn't this pure bluetooth?
The reason I ask is this -- I am about to buy an Ericsson T39, which DOES have bluetooth and GPRS, but my provider (Cingular) has not been able to get GPRS to work on this specific phone (actually, they don't technically sell the phone for this reason). Will I be able to sync with it, or would I need GPRS support?
thanks
- reid
Have you actually seen the screen on the "Desklamp" style iMacs? We have plenty of flat panel displays around but they look like crap next to the iMac displays.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
77 percent of owners of new Macs keep Mac OS X as the primary OS
Disclaimer: I am knee deep in PERL scripts, so it is possible that my brain isn't working quite properly at the moment.
1 in 4 Mac users is changing the OS? That's a lot of Yellow Dog Linux. I find this number difficult to believe. What are the others using? Who is buying Macs these days that's changing the OS?
-db
Funny how nobody here seemed to mention Quartz extreme: http://www.apple.com/macosx/jaguar/quartzextreme.h tml
---
"Doesn't a demonstration of such kickass tech (especially the database filing system stuff) realised today fro the consumer show just how many streets ahead Microsoft are? "
No.. but a *release* would!
I've been using my mac.com email address for awhile now. None of the other iTools features are at all useful to me. I'm not going to pay $100/year for an email address, no matter what the domain is. Now, when I tell my friends who email me at my mac.com address that they'll need to mail me at yahoo or something instead, how is that going to make Apple look? How is this going to help the effort to switch Windows users when I tell my Windows using friends, "Oh, well, you need to email me somewhere different now, I gave up that mac.com email address because Apple wanted me to start paying for it."
.Mac services.
All this is going to do is create a word of mouth backlash that bites Apple in the ass. The least they could do is keep the email free but charge for the full
I heard a "rumor" a while back that Apple's Mail client would be Exchange compatible in 10.2. Has anyone heard anything else about this?
It's called OS 9. Well, reverting back to OS 9. There's no way almost 25% of Mac users use Yellow Dog, but it's very, very likely that 1 in 4 Mac users are scared off by OS X's *nix underpinnings and generally altogether different GUI.
I think I see a trend forming here. The 16:10 "Golden Ratio" iMac screen and the $100 per year "Golden Shower" .Mac services.
The people who are switching are switching to OS 9 as the bootable OS.
I guess you slept through that whole LCD thing where displays magically grew 2". That is, a 15" LCD is the same effective size as a 17" monitor. And I'm really curious as to where you found a fuzzy-screened iMac. The only ones I've ever seen have smooth plastics...fuzzy might be an interesting switch...
Or were you trolling? My bad, dude.
Why yes, I AM a rocket scientist!
Check out their homepage. The slightly effete but expressive classic Apple Garamond font has been replaced by a plain, rather ugly version of Adobe Myriad Roman. Say it ain't so! But it is.
They started it with the eMac, but I assumed it was some education-only market differentiator. Apparently not. There's a little more at Mired.
Personally, I think it's a terrible change. And a stupid one. They'd built a huge amount of brand identity with Apple Garamond, to the point where anything written in it reminded you of Apple. The new font has no personality at all. Is that what they were going for?
P.S. The Myriad Roman link is a Google cache of a page that 404's now.
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
The finder needs more features that made OS 9 and under great. Now with OS X, I can't color code files, I can't change the icon as easily, I can't sort by date or anything other than name when I'm saving files.
The finder also won't tell you if the file you are replacing is newer than the one you are replacing it with. You can't answer 'yes to all' or 'no to all' either. Grrrrr. Sure there are free/share/bloat-ware products to do all these things, but why am I forced to resort to these when the 'old' os had them built in?
BTW Apple: If you are reading this - your heads on a stake for removing the abillity to print to a localtalk printer. Yeah, I'm going to get my work to shell for a new laser printer. Nope, boot to OS 9. I think your punishment should be this: Every time you want to update Apple.com, you must quit OS X, boot to OS 9, make the change, quit OS 9, boot to OS X, check the results. Repeat 'til you kill yourselves.
I know that I can get an adapter to fix this, but damnit, what happened to 'Works out of the Box' ?
I hate to love Apple, I love to hate M$.
Back to work, Slashders!
from apple's jaguar ugrade page:
"Customers who purchase a qualifying new Macintosh computer on or after July 17, 2002, that does not have Mac OS X v10.2 "Jaguar" included can upgrade to Mac OS X v10.2 "Jaguar" for US$19.95."
great, so that means that just because i bought my powerbook a month ago instead of today, i've got to either pay 130 bucks or "borrow" it from somewhere else? they really should push that cutoff date back a few months.
Anyone know a good^H^H^H^Hcheap place to buy a 1-2 year old used Mac?
I bought an older iMac from www.macofalltrades.com a couple of years ago. No complaints here - the shipping was fast and I'm still using it as my primary machine.
--saint
The ipod warranty has been improved to one year, up from its much criticized 90 day warranty. The ipod service page doesn't reflect this new warranty yet... out-of-warranty repairs cost an amazing $256.
Yesterday I read an article in a major newspaper (NYT, WSJ, or washington post - sorry, couldn't find link) describing how many high tech things (including the ipod) didn't come with suitable warranties -- for example, dell just changed from a 3 year to 1 year warranty.
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
was waiting for this day :)
while some people would really like to wait several years for service pack 3, or manually deal with recompiling, others have jobs that only involve computers. while i like to play with the toys, and got mach running on my powermac 6100 four or five years ago, linux is not what i need. the toys are in there, and i loaded more. i am willing to pay a subscription for basically a managed system, particularly one that does not lock me into their world domination plans. apple's updates have been great, and extremely regular in coming. last week their was a download bug, it was fixed yesterday. try that with microsoft. i also replace my computers every two years, so i would generally only have to pay for a year. not too bad when a tibook costs 2500+.
Should have been "who would have no chance with linux".
you're retarded
i'm the jedidiahmarkfoster your parents warned you about
2.5 million users today. Most new Mac users don't know fuck-all about the difference between Mac OS 9 and Mac OS 10, nor do they understand the concept of "dual-booting" or the Startup Disk control panel. Apple has suckered many a Mac user into their "2.5 million" demographic tally.
Jobs fails to mention that most of them are supplied by Apple itself in one of the various "i" apps.
Does anyone care? I don't. It should be called RealSpammer since it dumps so much shit that has nothing to do with media playback on your hard disk.
Announced today, available August 24. Phil Schiller takes the stage to demonstrate cycling desktop pictures. Hold the show, can I pre-order it now? Jesus. Oh, yeah, ugliest packaging ever for an OS.
Released Monday, more than 1 million users already exposed to the new and imporved QuickTime 6 nag-box before using the neat new MPEG4 features. Congrats, Apple.
Even uglier interface than Sherlock 2, "totally rewritten" (i.e. bought from another company and rebranded). I never use Sherlock, don't care about a this new "revision." *snore*
"No one owns it." Great. Apple implements a new technology first again. Let's walk around and see who we can connect to. Watch for Apple iDate, a blind dating package, based on this technology. I called it here first.
New version demonstrated, included in Mac OS X Jaguar. Uh, no shit. Not only have we known about this for months, but is it all that prophetic to think the mail client would be updated in the nex major OS revision?
Same as above. Filler at best. Jobs likes to hear himself talk.
The newsest (un)productivity app from Apple. Now Mac users can chat with their friends all day at work from an OS-integrated app. IT departments and managers beware. Apple is trying to destroy your profits!
Bait and switch! Goodbye iTools, our free free, and say hello to the much more expensive .mac. "These are trying economic times." No wonder Apple is excited about the evolution of the PC. They get to charge for shit formerly supplied for free. Damn the economy, eh, Steve?
Calendars for .mac, iPod, and Palm users. Hmm. Good idea. Available for the new .mac in September (re: fork over the dollars for it).
Hey hey hey! Awright! Finally some good shit from Apple. New features like consistent volume playback (so I won't be jolted awake when it finishes playing piano sonatas and goes into Nine Inch Nails), playlist sharing support (via Rendezvous and Audible.com), and iPod r3 support. New icon too! Can't wait til the servers aren't chundering forbidden messages at me so I can download it.
Uses XML to back up your Mac, iPod, iCal date, or Palm via the .mac service. Sounds neat, wonder where the spec for this SyncML markup is, costs lots of dough. Yet another piece due at MacWorld NY 2002 II (September).
17" screens, baby. Everyone scooped this one, even MOSR (thanks to pilfering from SpyMac and ThinkSecret). The first 17" iMac ever, unless you count that abberational eMac thing.
They want you to buy their hardware too though. If you can get OS/X on an x86, why would you buy mac hardware? If they can get you to switch to their hardware solely for the OS, then they've got a good deal going.
What?
As Steve mentioned, "Rendez-vous" (zero configuration network) has been proposed as a IETF standard.
Here are some links from their website:
Zero Configuration Networking (zeroconf)
Zeroconf IP Host Requirements
Dynamic Configuration of IPv4 Link-Local addresses
and a March 2001 Proceedings
...and the $129 "Golden Goose Egg" OS Upgrade.
>> $130 for bugfixes and a few extra features, plus $100 per year for a mac.com email account is just insane.
Not sure whether you are just plain stupid or ignorant. Have you ever used Mac OS X? Jaguar is not a bug fix, and has 150 new features. Apple is the only major computer left in this industry that are capable of innovating and taking risk, not a charity. Reasonable people are willing to pay a small price for Apple has done for us.
I have used virtually every other platform, there is nothing that even comes close to Mac OS X, and Linux is not even an option for most common people.
By the way, Macs use standard PC hardware too.
oooo... you're right, and it's the closest I've seen to the ratio 161:100!!!!! Holy shlamola!!!
...just my 2 gil.
Now... if Linux got this... and the desktop folks got into this... We'd be unstopable. I really liked the printer demonstration. Just plug that puppy onto the network and viola! It's installed and configured. File sharing, etc would be a breeze. Oh, and it's an 'open' standard with IETF.
Take a black felt-tip marker and carefully ink out the lower 90 pixels of you 17" iMac monitor. This will give you a 16:9 ratio, which matches HDTV!
Lets see... this $2000 computer comes with 256MB of RAM. What a great deal.
Ok, let's upgrade.
How much for another $128mb? Oh... only $75. Strange, I swore you could buy that much in pretty much any store for around $15-20.
Hmmm... how much for another $256? Oh... only $150. Again, I'm pretty sure that I saw that in a store for $60 yesterday (and that was before a $20 mail in rebate)
Ok... how much for a 512MB DIMM. Oh, only $250 more. Again, $119.99 in the store.
And for 1 GIG... 2 512 DIMMS. That's an additional $550. Strange, that would be less than $250 in any store around.
Oh... there must be a labor charge to install that RAM. Hmm... takes about 2 minutes max to put it in, so... I guess they're charging $9000/hour to install RAM. Sweet deal!
Casual Games/Downloads
Personally I'm glad to see Apple seems to have broken the MHZ VooDoo madness. With a CPU at 800MHZ and the new Intel processors at 2200+ MHZ it would have been a big issue in the past. Either Apple has done a good job of sidestepping the issue, people are happy with current speeds or a little of both. Maybe a little more development will be put into other areas that have a bigger impact on user experience and system performance.
"God fights on the side with the best artillery." - Napoleon, Marshal of France - speaking truth to power
Disclaimer: I am a very bitter OSX/ibook user.Be warned.
Dear Apple Customer,
Thank you for spending obscene amounts of money to purchase our hardware over comparably priced X86 PCs. Also, we thank you for giving us more money for OS X, which up untill now has really just been one of the largest beta tests in the history of computing. Thanks to your efforts and complaints, we have been able to fix numerous horrible bugs, add features that comparable free software had ten years ago, and finally figure out why the hell Quartz is so slow.
We are now ready to release our latest OS X service pack^H^H^H update for prices ranging from $19.95 to $129.95. That's right, now you can pay for the kind of updates that even the bastards at Microsoft give away for free! If you ever wondered why we brought back Steve Jobs, now you know just how good he is at bringing in new revenue!
Thank you again, dear customer, for continuing to flush your money away in the desparate search for a computer more stable than Windows without all the hassles of Linux! Just a few more years and a few more thousand dollars each, and the revolution will be in full swing!
Best regards,
Apple Computers
Just in case you guys missed it, check out these pages. http://www.apple.com/ical/ http://www.apple.com/isync/
i had to buy a new printer..... my Epson 1160 is long not supported by epson... now that i have a 1280 it works really well under OS X. i was pissed i had to upgrade (they are both oversized inkjets that cost $400+) but i was able to seel the old on on ebay for literally $1 less than the new one (i do not know).
as for HP, i do not know what to say. i've been using Apple computers for a long time, i dealt with the mess of using HP printers in the 90's and since then i just don't feel comfortable buying their stuff.
Why don't you "Return" it and then "buy" it back? That'll give you the required date. A local retailer should be able to swing that for you. I do stuff like this all the time with stereo, music and computer equipment. If you have a good relationship with your retailer you should be all set.
Of course if you bought it from a catalog your probably screwed. In that case I'd return it and really buy from a local person.
I can imagine the scene at the key note: stev jobs announces the new .mac initiative, and the goes to show the newly designed site. He types the url and wait, and waits, and then gets the message 'site overloaded'. Loosing his temper - 'Slashdotted already!! Couldn't those guys have waited!?'
Jumpstart the tartan drive.
17-inch display resolutions: 1440 by 900 (native), 1152 by 720, 1024 by 640, and 800 by 500 pixels at 16:10 aspect ratio; 1024 by 768, 800 by 600, and 640 by 480 pixels at 4:3 aspect ratio.
Guvegrra?
very true, which is why I wont buy XP. 2000 is M$'s best effort so far. XP was M$'s point release to the OS X interface. ;^)
Gee, I wonder if this had anything to do with all the price-hikes for new services in the keynote....
I am concerned about any program, any piece of hardware, any treaty, any law that treats me as a consumer, not a citizen
I have a nearly two year old PowerMac that runs MacOS X only about a third slower than the current top-end model. That's not bad at all.
In reality, it's Windows XP that has to jump through this hoop - our IT guy just quit, and his 1ghz Athelon XP system is distinctly sluggish. XP's published specifications include system requirements that exclude any system more than a year and a half old at the time.
D
This sounds a bit like Tivo ads argument. Some Tivo fans freaked when the movie trailers started showing up on Tivo. The Zealots loved it and thought it was good for Tivo to finally try to make some money.
The same thing is happening here. The real deal mac zealots have no problem with the new prices. While others aren't happy with the itools costs and os x upgrade price.
Nothing new under the sun.
Digital photography, which works better on a Mac than anywhere, is far cheaper than conventional photography. In fact, taking pictures is basically free, which is a big step up from film photography's $10-odd per 36 exposures.
Most people obsessed with value are also obsessed with tradition, and therefore love family photos. Imagine, then, being able to take all the family pictures you want at no extra cost per photo, loading them on to your computer, printing them out and emailing them to your friends.
And imagine there is a computer that comes with special free software that makes cataloguing them dead easy, so you'll never lose that great picture of your baby laughing or your 11 year old riding the skateboard.
That computer is a Mac.
I'd call that basic value, wouldn't you?
D
One thing that keeps putting me off from seriously thinking about OS-X is that, wandering around Apple's web site, I see lots of iCandy touting all these entertaining apps, but I don't see much mention of lots of things that, as a linux/unix programmer, I'm accustomed to having.
/. is fun and probably even entertaining, but it's not an efficient way to get answers to such questions.
So, do they just use gcc, or does it come with the box? I can't tell. Do they include perl, tcl/tk, and python? I'd feel crippled without all of these. Do they include xterm, or do I have to use their clumsy "user friendly" terminal emulator?
Perhaps more to the point; is there some place at apple.com that I can go to find answers to this sort of question? Asking on
In the past, I've generally avoided Macs, because, well, I'm a programmer. A computer is something that I can program. Macs traditionally aren't computers; they are appliances for non-programmers.
Macs have not only lacked tools for programmers, but they've charged you a lot to get a development package. (And the results only run on a Mac.) Linux comes with lots of fancy - and portable - programming tools, so a programmer can jump right in and be productive without putting out big bucks for a "development" package.
So where can I read a list of the normal unix things that I'll find on OS-X?
Those who do study history are doomed to stand helplessly by while everyone else repeats it.
I wish to see this. I guess I just get the regular switch ads untill i pay $99 for the service
btw, they are total bungs for the bait and switch email service.
I didn't have to do anything to configure my right-mouse button. I just plugged in my Kensington USB mouse-in-a-box (same model I use on my Windows box at work) and it just works (equivalent to Ctrl-click). The scroll wheel works in the Finder, IE, and other apps but not all apps. I think the Kensington MouseWorks software lets the scroll work in more apps but I haven't bothered installing it.
This is a flat-panel, if you didn't notice. A 17" flat-panel has the same screen-size as a 19" CRT. Plus it's widescreen.
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
First thing I thought about when I saw Sherlock 3 was Watson. Even Apple's Phil Schiller said how cool it was. I guess Apple thought it was so cool they would practically copy it!
Watson provides many more services than Sherlock 3, but it also costs $30.
I hold it, that a little rebellion, now and then, is a good thing. -- Thomas Jefferson
My ISP charges $20.00 a month for a 5MB mailox and 50MB of FTP space. Apple is providing more than that for $100.00 a year. That's half off for me - for more space.
.Mac doesn't include is dialup (or broadband) access of any kind. If Apple had struck some kind of deal to package an Earthlink or AOL dialup and include it in the .Mac package, I might be sold. But you'll still be paying $20/month for your ISP, $240/year, and then paying Apple an additional $100/year for their storage and email account.
Yes, but the one thing that
This is the problem for me. For $100/year, I want to be able to kick my current dialup account out the window. An extra $9/month isn't much to ask, but it is when my ISP already provides email and storage, the two features that are most important to me.
Number: 1-800-973-0376
July 17, 2002.
To Whom it May Concern,
Please note that I think your pricing of OS X (10.2) for existing users (license owners) is unreasonable. Everywhere else I look I see companies charging less for upgrades than they do for the full version. I purchased a 3000$ machine from you guys in January. I didn't get it until March (new iMac) . It came a month late. And now you're telling me that I have to shell out an additional 200$ Canadian to remain a part of the club of elite mac users. Please rethink the decision to screw all your older customers. I understand your need to generate revenue and to drive hardware sales. I would like to point out that you should also be considerate of those who have remained loyal to you and those that send their friends into the stores to buy macs. I think that you should charge for the OS X (10.2) don't give it away for free. But charge a reasonable upgrade amount. Those mac-up-to-date coupons that came with my computer are useless otherwise.
Sample of Products from macwarehouse site:
Adobe Photoshop Whole Prouct(949.99) Upgrade(219)
Windows XP Whole Product (449.99) Upgrade (299.99)
Macromedia Studio MX Whole Product(1149.00) Upgrade from one product (899.99)
Apple Mac OS X (10.2) Whole Product (199.95) Upgrade (199.95)
* Arguably the different versions of all of the products in the above table are different programs. But note that the other companies offer a discount to existing customers. It would be great to see Apple do the same.
I wish I had mod privs today, so I could mod this thread up. Essentially I have the same questions.
e st .bluetooth.ap/
Is Bluetooth ready for mainstream?
http://www.cnn.com/2002/TECH/ptech/07/08/tech.t
What are people's experiences?
I've had zero success finding a mobile phone (in the US) that could sync with anything. Really would love to have this feature. "bluetooth" doesn't even bring up a hit searching the sprintpcs, verizon wireless, or voicestream websites.
Another interesting link:
http://www.antonio.perrotta.com/palm/
The people that have already bought and paid for OS X are Apple's staunchest supporters. If anyone deserves to finally have a fast OS, it's them. Yet they are being asked to pay full tilt ($129) for the speed that should have been there in the very first release.
OS X as it currently sits can be slow even on fast Mac hardware, and annoyingly laggy on slower Macs. This is simply not acceptable. Mac OS X users deserve these fixes for free, and I suspect that most people will take them without paying if they have the opportunity.
What's this business with audible.com support in iTunes 3? Do they use DRM? This document says they make a special codec:
h tm
http://www.fullplaymedia.com/partners/partners.
and this document says they definitely do:
http://www.cognitrol.com/ADBL/devices.htm
So is this audible.com support a trojan horse for DRM in iTunes? The answer is likely yes. This is one mac user who won't upgrade to iTunes 3.
Apparently, iPod also now supports it, so beware firmware updates.
"Let him go, Ralph. He knows what he's doing." --Otto Mann (simpsons)
Did anyone else catch that the release date for the new OSX update is August 24th. - the same day Microsoft picked for the release of Windows '95?
Maybe it's just coincidence, but it just struck me as interesting. Can't help but wonder if there's any significance behind it.
(In any case, it's also my birthday. Unfortunately, I don't own a Mac - so I don't think I'll be looking for a copy of this OS as a gift this year.)
now i'm just pricing some G4s.
Do not buy a PowerMac until the new models come out -- either in mid August or early September.
...much as i wish it were. There was no mention at all of discounts for those of us with software coupons. It's full price for everyone except those who bought the computers today or later, presumably to stop people holding off on buying new hardware.
I saw on the MacWorld report over at MacInTouch.com that Apple has a $59 device for people switching from Windows to Mac. It is a USB device that sucks preferences from a user's Windows machine, and transfers them to their new Mac.
Has anyone thought about a hardware solution for moving users from Windows to Linux?
Then XP was released and I realized Win2k was just temporary insanity on Microsoft's part.
I'm now a happy OS X (and occasional Win2k) user.
I tried every decent and legal way I could think of to resolve the issue w/the business before I rented the chicken suit
The new 10GB model is 7.692 percent thinner than the previous version.
I think I need a few more significant digits to adequately assess this new iPod.
I was surprised that iTunes3 was announced without support for AAC (mpeg-4 Advanced Audio Coding).
Anyone care to speculate when iTunes (and more importantly, the iPod) will support AAC?
I bought a Mac last summer because OSX seemed like the best thing since sliced bread for me as a Java developer. Java version parity with official JDK releases really leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Performance of the Apple runtime is barely tenable. For me, the Mac has become a curiosity, a toy, nothing more. I've gone back to x86 Linux for the majority of my development work. I'm even eyeing the Mac I have as a candidate for Yellow Dog or Gentoo PPC. I will buy the upgrade, but there's no motivation to do so by the end of the year.
Stop whining about Apple's upgrade policies, since they've historically been done this way. You always have a choice. That's the great part about capitalism.
However, for those of you for which the Mac is a primary computer, think of the alternatives.
1) Load Yellow Dog/Gentoo/. Your cost is nothing but time. Learn to become one with the source. MacOnLinux will allow you to run any Classic apps you'll absolutely need.
2) Sell the Mac. Buy a PC. Move to the Orwellian world of Microsoft licensing vis a vis Windows and Office XP. Enjoy PAYING EVEN MORE for EVEN LESS.
3) Suck it up, plop down the 130 clams and support one of the best damn *nix desktops I've seen to date. Normal people can use it! It even has Office for those of you who need it.
Apple is trying to make themselves ubiquitous when it comes to consumers who have digital cameras, camcorders, mp3 players, etc. Everything they do now is moving the company closer and closer to that vision.
Even for those of you who bought the public beta and the first full version, 130 bucks is cheap for what you get. Yes, printing may not be perfect. Yes, there are still a lot of bugs. Yes, Apple has a penchant for adding things we current users don't need or want, but they have to balance what existing customers want vs. what will bring new users to the platform.
The following is a personal motto of mine, which gathers more credibility each day:
Pay now or pay later, but keep in mind that you WILL pay.
Pony up the $130 bucks for the upgrade. Be a good MacHead and support your platform of choice. Use something else if you don't. The ultimate alternative is that Bill gets your money and control over your desktop.
Rant complete.
Ready.
Keith
--- If you hadn't stayed to read this
How can I justify to myself buying into this when I know 10.3 will come out maybe a year later with the same deal? I don't want to pay $200 a year just in OS updates.
Listen, I'm a fan of Apple and Macintosh, but I shudder to think how things would be if they were in a monopoly position rather than MS. If this is the way they're positioning when they're low on market share it'll be a whole other story if they ever become bigger than the biggest, IMHO.
-- The unsig...
Okay, $1999 for the 17" iMac.. That's NOT bad, if you consider the display itself is worth almost $700+ (comparing to a Samsung SyncMaster 171S), and the SuperDrive isn't exactly cheap on its own either. Sure, Apple wants a bit too much for RAM, so just get it with 256 megs and get on crucial.com to buy the rest of your RAM.
:)
I've been a die-hard PC user for years, but I'm also a wireless nut (cell phones and such).. The Bluetooth integration and that display just excited me and gave me goosebumps...
I know this is the Mac I _have_ to own.
My boss just made a comment - he'd love to buy his wife one, but he's afraid she'd never touch a Windows PC ever again.
That's not a very compelling way to get windows users to switch. That's also not very compelling for a Unix professional who doesn't need an OS that holds his hand. I don't understand what segment of the market they are going after.
I'll stick with Linux on my cheap x86 hardware for now. With that I get everything I'd want from a Mac for half the price, plus more upgrade freedom, and software updates for free.
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Um, we've got by far the coolest OS in existance right now.
1. Open source, BSD-based, core
2. Beautiful, Apple-designed user interface
3. Compiles most open source unix apps.
4. Runs tons of retail software - Including every game I've bought in the last year actually (dunno why I've been buying PC versions).
5. Includes a few killer apps (can we say iTunes?) right out of the box.
How 'bout we pony up and pay the man? I mean, hell, it's better than giving cash to Micro$oft for something far crappier right?
If you already have an iTools account the first year membership is only going to be fifty bucks.
I've never seen an MP3 player suck so much from a CPU. On this G3 (256MB), it takes between 50 to 80% of the CPU just ON PAUSE.
It uses about 130MB of virtual memory and 20MB of resident.
This is probably a bug since a co-worker here uses the same iTunes on his imac with a 15% usage instead.
Too bad I can't go back to the previous iTunes now. :(
Semantics is the gravity of abstraction
If I recall they pulled this same thing last time with os X 10.1 but you ended up being able to get the upgrade cds for free from the the mac stores and also maybe the CompUSA stores. They just didn't tell anyone about it. Not real sure about the CompUSA it might of been somewhere else, but there was another place besides apple's stores.
iMac 17" costs $1999 = 2630 EUROS in Europe
For memory $1 = 1 EURO
Apple gets $630 for each iMac 17" sold in Europe. Credit for the same costs $88 in Europe compared to $44 in the US.
realkiwi
Oh, man, you are talking rubbish, and I hope you know that.
First of all, Longhorn won't be released until late 2004, which quite probably means sometime in 2005, knowing MS's track record. And you are comparing it to Apple technology to be released in a few weeks, a month ahead of schedule? What is it with you Windoze idiots?
With Mac OS X, you get great programming tools like InterfaceBuilder, ProjectBuilder and gcc 3 which allows you to design sleek UI with very little coding and writing programs in standard languages like Java, C / C++, and Objective C / C++, all for FREE. How much do you have to pay for using MS's me-too technology like C# which doesn't work on any other platform, and would you care to enlighten us why it's so leading edge?
Just read Apple's knowledge base. If you turn off the Automatic iPod update in the iTunes control panel, you can COPY the music to the iPod from several Macs. You cannot copy the music back to the computer though without third party software.
The Redhat situation is entirely different. If you choose, you can have any version (6.1, 7.0, 7.2 whatever) for free (download edition).
With OSX, you have to either buy a new computer that has it installed, or purchase OSX seperately.
Everything else you say is spot on. People don't want to pay for features, and then bitch when new features don't come out quickly enough to suit them.
In todays business world, you usually can't have it both ways. OSS is the exception, not the rule. I think people lose sight of that sometimes.
Apple is not trying to enlighten society, they are trying to make money off of society.
From what I read in the iTunes 3.0 release notes, it still can't handle CD's where the music seamlessly spans multiple tracks. I'm getting sick of ripping CD tracks into Digital Performer and doing digital mixdowns just so I can get MP3's without gaps in the audio.
"iChat is the first client compatible with AOL Instant Messenger (AIM), allowing instant messaging between .Mac members, AOL members and AIM users. With its engaging use of the Mac OS X Aqua interface, iChat provides a great new user experience, with dialog bubbles and buddy photos that present instant messages in a graphically conversational manner -- and no annoying ads."
First client? Uh, what about Trillian? Or do they mean first for the mac.
using namespace slashdot;
troll::post();
While both units cost the same, if you want the Windows version to be engraved, it will cost an aditional $79 while the Mac version only costs $49. Either Apple is trying to pull a fast one or the price of engraving is going up an will change by the time the Windows version ships.
The online petition to oppose the new .Mac charges is available at here.
My 2 cents: The email accounts should remain free. The rest can be value-add fee-based.
Peruse groups.google and you will see people who have the t39 working on cingular's GPRS network. It really depends on where you are in the cingular network and lying about what your phone is.
I've had a t39 for a long time and used it on the Cingular crapfest... but unforunately they are seemingly taking forever getting GPRS going in SF. As far as syncing, as long as you get an approved bluetooth solution or have infrared the t39 will sync.
--- I do not moderate.
Well, I stopped and restart iTunes 3 and it seems all is fine now.. Uses between 15 to 30% of the CPU now, with virtual mem size of 74,504 Kbytes and resident of 14,800 Kbytes.
Quite useable.
Go iTunes!
Semantics is the gravity of abstraction
Umm, they do. I use a two-button mouse under X at home, and it works wonderfully, fully supported. That feature is there, it's just not advertised. In fact, I use an optical cordless two-button wheel mouse, and the wheel works great as well.
I get back from the store with my new 10GB iPod...still in its sealed box...
F#$k. S#$t. wanker.
[Please type your sig here.]
A new Windows came for all to fear
It started with Windows x.y,
And then Windows 95
And every 24 or 36 months it seemed,
New versions would pop up right to ME n' XP
If cost summed, for each Windows released
Over 500 dollars the price would increase!
One could say the only difference between 98 and ME
Is a few widgets redrawn and new bugs to be seen!
When compared to Microsoft, Apple's no better .3,
They just choose different numbers rather then letters!
Its not so hard to buy 10.2 or
If you think of it like buying a brand new XP
To many Apple is just a corporate beast
But they do need a pay check at the end of the week
And unlike Windows' excuse for another crappy update
Apple has an OpenGL facelift on the entire Quartz draw rate!
Peace out fools...
--"You are your own God"--
Excellent. I was actually getting really annoyed that straight-ahead printing stuff didn't get fixed, since it wasn't listed as a headline "feature" even though it was a fix for a show-stopping "lack of feature", as it were. I could have dug a bit deeper into the Apple site and found this out, but the ol' cable modem seemed remarkably slow this morning for some odd reason...
Babar
These are big. These are very big.
There's nothing worse than transferring a friend's data from an old mail client, noticing a duplicate, and not being sure which address is current. Think of all the places where something as simple as an address or e-mail address may be duplicated: e-mail software at home and work, Palm/contact software at home and office, phone numbers in the cell phone, etc.. Being able to sync contacts between work and home via the Palm was a huge step, but even now if I have information in a mail client or a cell phone it's a pain to keep it synchronized.
Donald Norman complained about this effort to "set up" stuff in The Art of Human-Computer Interface Design back in 1990, and this is the first time that I've seen an integrated solution to deal with this. Sure, things like my newsreader (MacSOUP) and mail client (PowerMail) will have to be modified to work with these, but this is totally sweet.
In a related matter, I'm totally psyched for iCal. Despite its lame name, this looks like it has the potential to replace my Palm desktop application (which took its own sweet time getting ported to OS X in the first place -- but as a longtime Mac user and former U.S. Robotics/3Com shareholder, I'm used to getting the shaft from Palm).
Now while I don't have a huge need to publish my calendar to millions of people or even within a large business, for several years I've been looking at something to simply allow my wife and I to compare Palm schedules so that we know what the other has planned before one of us tells others that we'd love to go to that party or movie. I guess we'd count as a small workgroup. Several Palm options exist, but they're all about US$50 and either require Windows (but of course the sites don't bother to say that until you're on the demo download page, do they?) or an Internet service that (a) I don't necessarily trust with my whole calendar, and (b) who knows when they're gonna go belly up. Being able to handle the whole thing behind my own firewall looks great.
In terms of the upgrade cost, I prefer to think of it this way: The upgrade is $129, but includes the features I've liked in the demo of the kick-ass application Watson ($29) in Sherlock, a workgroup-synchronizing Palm calendar (~$50), and a Unicode character palette (comparable to ~$9 shareware). So, as far as I'm concerned, the upgrade is really only about forty bucks, which while not free, offers enough cool features and improvements (multithreaded finder, finder search, spring-loaded folders, Quartz extreme) that I'm not too concerned. Heck, with iChat I might even turn into one of those instant message wankers.
Also, for those whiny babies complaining "I bought a Mac last week and I'm pissed now!", shut the hell up. Practically everyone on the planet knew Apple was going to talk about Jaguar and a butload of other stuff at the MacWorld conference. Anyone with half a brain would have waited a bit longer until the conference, if nothing else in the hopes of a price drop on the computer itself. I bought a new G4 a month and a half ago, and I'm not going to complain about the Jaguar price.
What's up with Job's quote:
'...Apple is now the biggest supplier of Unix-based operating systems in the world -- "bigger than Sun, bigger than Linux" -- Apple CEO Steve Jobs announced during his Macworld keynote speech on Wednesday...'
Anybody buy this?
https://www.accountkiller.com/removal-requested
Since you're onld OS/2 team member...
I figure by Win2k Microsoft finally released a product that was better than OS/2 3.0. I was shocked by how happy people were with NT 4.0 features that had been part of OS/2 5 years earlier.
- Jeff (OS/2 user 1.3.1-3.0)
p.S since this whole thread is about upgrades:
2.0 $99
2.1 free upgrade (and this was over 20 floppies)
3.0 $49 upgrade (CD )
Please take a minute to sign this petition to ApplePetition
_______
Death wish, n.:
The only wish that always comes true, whether or not one wishes it t
I just called the Apple store at 1-800-my-apple, and the rep told me that the upgrade proof of purchase coupons you get when you buy a new machine will not apply to this upgrade, so it's $129 across the board, (unless you buy your machine starting today, and it doesn't already have Jaguar installed).
She told me Apple is taking comments from (potential) customers to gauge their reactions, and that it could possibly result in changes to the plan. (Remember that the upgrade isn't actually available until August 24...plenty of time for them to change the pricing policy).
In my case, I told them I was a "switcher" who has bought two new macs (an iMac and an iBook) in the last four months, and I was very unhappy that I'll need to pay $260 to upgrade them to 10.2. I suggested that they should at least honor the coupons and give a price break for them.
Call them and tell them what you think...maybe we can make a difference.
Gotta hate July birthdays. Only a few days ago did I get my 10GB iPod. Now I get to be green w/ envy.
I don't know about the rest of you, but I'm as excited as a little school girl for August 24. Rendezvous and iChat alone will make things worthwhile. Finally, we will be able to very easily transfer files (and calendars!) to each other with no hassle. My friends and I all have iBooks/PowerBooks with wireless networks. No matter where we are, we can open up our computers, and start surfing right away. Only trouble is, file sharing has always been too many steps to get files from one computer to the other. With iChat, I'll be able to see Mike right away, and just drag a file onto him. Boom. It's there.
:)
Also, with Mail and its adaptive latent semantic analysis, I can finally be spam free. Sure, I've setup procmail with various recipes and such, but it takes way too long, and is never truly good enough. With all the new spamming tactics these days, one needs something that's smart and can learn. I've always thought Mail had potential, but for me the lack of a calendar was always a problem. Looks like with Jaguar I'll be switching from Microsoft Entourage to Mail/iCal/AddressBook.
Five weeks and counting. How will I survive?
And one I am concerned with as well. Someone who knows what they are talking about please chime in on this one. I bought a 2x1Gig PowerMac 2 months ago and I am certainly wanting to see it running 10.2 but lets be reasonable here. I just gave this company thousands of dollars. Can't wait to go home and see if this is something that will help fend off that $129 update, or at least bring it down to a manageable size.
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
The local Apple store won't get the new iPods for PC until next month. Anyone know the lead time to get one directly from Apple's Web Store?
Apparently Quartz Extreme has that taken care of.
For PowerBooks, this should cover everything after the
PowerBook G4 (Gigabit Ethernet)
For iBooks, the latest model: iBook (16MB VRAM) is the first to have a Radeon Video card.
From Apple's main page on Mac OS X
The wide-screen iMac specs page [apple.com] gives the native
;-)
resolution of the 17" iMac as 1440x900. This is a 16:10 display ratio, which is about as
close as any monitor I know of gets to the
Golden Ratio [surrey.ac.uk], (1 + sqrt(5)/2), or approximately 1.618.
Clearly Apple is trying to channel Pyramid Power [geocities.com]
to sell more computers.
Uh... no. 1.618 is just the aspect ratio of most film stock.
Movie makers knew about that ratio a long time before apple even existed.
Simon
Coming soon - pyrogyra
iWant to iGet iMyself iOne of iThose iNew 17" iMacs.
Yeah, Jagwire is pretty sweet. My mountain bike has jagwire brake lines to replace the stock hayes, and it gives them much more modulation. Also their teflon coated cables and kevlar housing is great for shifting. word up. Oh wait, this was about apple, that's jaguar. Just a heads up.
cheese logs keep my wang warm at night.
Try with the education discount. Either that or they are copying Dell by changing prices for different customer within a short time period. I think that was a Slashdot article a while back.
"Linux" is not a supplier of Unix-based systems. Period.
Sure it is possible but there will be airborne pork before that happens. The difference in CPUs will stop you from just dropping the CD in and going. There would also be the whole bios vs. openfirmware which could probably eventually be worked out. The problem is that Apple wouldn't want you to have a reason not to buy the hardware that makes a large chunk of the money. Compiling it for the x86 platform would kill sales for Apple hardware. Would you buy a $3000 box when you could get a $800 Athlon and throw OS X on it? Some still will but not enough to make it worth Apple's while.
just gnot like gnu or gnome and most certainly knot like kde kdesktop which is trying to konquery the world as well.
:) heck, i could still use my 486 if i wanted to, we just got suckered into this performance/spec/mhz war.
everything is drawn out in the pc world
if it isn't one thing it is another
A lot of people are complaining that QT6 doesn't support MPEG-2 when Apple promised it would. I just thought I'd mention that the MPEG-2 support is being sold as an add on for educational customers for $19.99.
Imagine a Beowolf Cluster of THESE!!!
The most popular thing ever made by any mobile company is SMS. The idea that I can write SMSs on my iBook and then send them from my phone is so good that I'm gonna shell out for the Bluetooth dongle as soon as they get them back in stock.
Given the choice of buying an expensive, bulky PDA, or storing contacts and calendar on a cute, tiny (and FREE) T68 is a no-brainer.
More people have mobiles than PCs, digital cameras and whatever put together. It makes perfect sense that they should include them as an important part of their digital hub thing. The T68s are getting very popular in Europe. It can see people choosing a Mac just because they can easily control their mobile from it.
On the low end, you have to buy a big, clunky, monitor-included thing. If you want a "component" system, you have to buy a tower, which is big and costs much moolah.
Damn straight. The exact Mac I want would use the motherboard from the eMac (or a G4 nForce2, drool), put the graphics in an AGP slot, ditch the CRT, add a PCI slot & an open drive bay.
Just enough expandability to satisfy a budget-conscious informed user. Why does Lord Steve refuse to sell Macs to this large market segment?
I mean, youare talking to people in a community who think it's cool to serve web pages on a Mac Plus.
You start talking about how long a computer stays useful and decide to get in a pissing contest with the Mac and you're goin down hard. Part for part upgradability I'll take a clone PC built on my kitchen table any day but for getting the most life out of the parts you bought when it was new nothing touches an Apple.
A 3 year old PC (RUNNING WINDOWS - pick your current version, this works in any era) is damned near useless. Of course take that same box and remove the OS and you got some life left in it but then that's not where the comparison lies really is it?
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
Most Mac users are required to use the damned things. Want to play nice in a world full of people using Office 97? You better plan on getting Office to be able to open those documents. Want to go browse the web? Well it's written for Internet Explorer so you better have it.
There is a difference between infatuation and coercion.
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
It is just not acceptable to change conditions like that after people have given out their supposedly free email addresses. It makes people feel that they can't trust Apple to stand by their promises.
The issue is not charging for value added services, the issue is charging for email addreses that used to be free. At $100/year, most people would not have started using iTools; many people will now have to pay because changing their email address is more painful, not because they like iTools so much that they are willing to pay that kind of money.
I contacted the Apple store and they said plainly that the upgrade coupons will not be honored for 10.2 owners regardless of how long you've owned your new Mac. I personally picked up one about 18 days ago and I just won't pay for 10.2 after I just purchased a brand new machine.
The want to see the adoption of OSX go up, they're going to have to do a heck of a lot better than this on the pricing front.
When the lady told me that those coupons are just for proof-of-purchase and would not be honored for upgrade and that there IS NO UPGRADE price, that pretty much ended any concern I had for what Apple does in 10.2, and I will continue to target 10.1.5 for all software releases of that platform until the do something that makes sense.
I like the way my Mac looks.
I love the way it does most of the exact same things as the Windows 2000 machine I spend my days at work using.
Funny how it's a toy when a Mac does something but an Application when a Microsoft machine does the exact same thing in a less efficient and more cumbersome manner.
Appended to the end of comments you post. 120 chars.
The idea of putting a LCD in a CRT case is stupid
It sounds like you're confusing the 17" LCD iMac with the 17" CRT eMac.
That's not really surprising, seeing that you're one of those fucktards who writes MAC when you mean Mac.
No No No!! C'mon people at least try!
Wrong. "Jaguar" or 10.0.2 IS merely a bug fix and those new features should have been in 10.0.0 which was *completely* unuseable.
You missed the year 2002. 10.1 was a bugfix for the "unusable" 10.0 version. 10.1.x is the latest, STABLE, version.
10.2 _is_ a major update with all those features and..*gasp*...Quartz Extreme. Hardware accelerated graphics layer? Hello!?!?! McFly?!?!
10.0.2 should be a free upgrade for those people brave or stupid enough to have had to put up with 10.0.0 or 10.0.1 and their hideous infancy problems.
Wrong. Just..wrong. The amount of FUD on this thread is staggering.
"Electric Relaxation" - ATCQ
- Bwana
On the Mac Support site, I found a post that detailed a method to convert your .Mac trail account to an email-only account. It looks like this would take care of the problem of having to pay if you only use email:
.Mac trial account to an email-only account
.Mac services, such as iDisk, HomePage, Backup, and Virex, are not accessible to email-only accounts.
.Mac menu bar, then click the Email Account Management button. Enter the member name and password of the trial account you'd like to convert, then click Convert.
-----------
(login at www.mac.com, go to the support screen and select email in the help section at the bottom left of the screen):
Converting your
IMPORTANT: If you choose to convert your trial account to an email-only account, all your data files on Apple's servers (except for email messages) will be removed. Other
To convert your trial account to email-only, go to www.mac.com. Click Account in the
Print your account information for future reference, then click Continue.
------
The poster on the support board mentioned that while the instructions are available, this process does not yet work, but hopefully this functionality is coming soon, as it would erase many of the complaints people here have about the change to a paid service.
I'm surprised they don't have an email only option. It looks like .Mac is for the people who want the complete Apple experience. The power user would use most of these services. I own a PC that requires a $20/yr subcription for Norton Antivirus, $20/yr for yahoo email, and if I wanted 100mb for online storage (photos, briefcase), it would run me $35/yr. That's $75 without support. So if the support is worth $25/yr then it's an OK deal. If not, I think a $25 premium fits within the typical Apple user's price range. It was a typical bait n' switch, but what isn't on the internet. Just like when Datek started charging account inactivity fees.
Everyone who was even remotely aware of Apple's plans knew that 10.2 was coming soon (September was the prevailing theory). If you were that concerned about it you should have waited. In fact, they will deliver an updated PowerBook within 6 months too. Do you want that for free? Get over it - developers cost money and so do software updates.
In case you are a legit post - did you not do ANY research? Did you not ask any Apple fans about buying one now? Did you not visit any of the rumor sites or apple.slashdot.com?
I've been a Mac user for six months and even *I* know that you don't buy a Mac the few weeks leading up to a big event... Especially if Jobs delivers the keynote. It's like clothes shopping the weekend *before* Thanksgiving.
And I'm not even Trolling! I am really jealouse, I have been dreaming about a setup like that for a while now! I think possibly the only thing that would be more cooler(not necessarliy more usefull) would be a cellphone/bluetooth card that would alow you to just have a palmpilot, and a bluetooth headset. Possibly the addition of voice dialing like on that stupid ('pet-za' comercial, they work better than advertised btw) that and a bluetooth home phone and car phone, that would switch you between the different phones based on location.
I think it's interesting how people are calling Jaguar just a "bug fix release" or "service pack" even though there are a TON of new features and archetecural improvements running behind the scenes.
Apple is one of the few non-Unix companies that still cares about a semi-consistant versioning scheme:
v A.B.C
A=Major release number, new paradigms, etc...
B=Minor release number, incremental improvements
C=Bug fix release
In the past, Apple has bumped the minor release to x.5 when some sort of major incompatability occurred (ie, OS 8.5 was the first to require a PowerPC Mac). They didn't do that here, but I wonder people would be as bent out of shape about it if Apple *had* called this Mac OS X 10.5. Or maybe Mac OS X 2002? Compare the product on a feature-level, not a numeric level.
Apple usually isn't willing to inflate a version jump for marketing purposes:
- Mac OS 6 to 7 was a giant jump in terms of structure.
- Mac OS 7.1.1 to 7.5 wasn't quite as big, but did greatly expand the "experience" with new technologies (and doubled the distribution size).
- Mac OS 7.6.1 to 8.0 had a major UI overhaul, mutli-threaded Finder, and major architectural re-writes.
- Mac OS 8.5 began life as 8.2 until it hit beta and it was decided that it would be PowerPC only. (Even though it was 8.6 that deserved the monkier thanks to the new microkernel.)
- Mac OS 9 was Mac OS 8.7 until a beta as well, although that was probably to help maintain a clear separation between OS 9 (designed to work with X) and 8 (not).
- Even though OS X is in roman numerals, it's still numerically just OS 10.x.
Compare this to Microsoft (and, by following MS's example, a majority of the Windows software out there) which gets away with murder by renaming a bug patch according to the current year and can charge an arm and a leg for it. Even MS realized that Windows 98 was just Windows 4.1 (and Office 98 contains Word 7.0).
Could someone please tell me where the hell Windows Media Player 8 went though?
Hire a Linux system administrator, systems engineer,
just gotta gloat a little:2 637
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=26184&cid=284
just my blog and pix
Go to the federal employee store. Click that nice shiny "I Accept" button. Buy Jaguar for $69.50. Enjoy chewing satisfaction.
ok
as the windows pc user is constantly having crashes on his $500 machine filled with free pirated software
the mac user is bitching about a new $100+ software upgrade that comes out for his $1500+ imac (software not pirated)
when the hell am i going to be able to afford a mac outside having my work pay for one?
maybe i should switch to a pc/linux combo...
Ave Molech Setting
I think that people should have to pay for the upgrade. Pricing it like an upgrade for existing users of the OS would be very reasonable of Apple. Even M$ does this. So until Apple does I'm gonna have a hate on for them.
They(Apple) should provide their users with a clear upgrade path, either through yearly licencing or reasonable costing upgrades. End of story IMO.
... if you've bought Quicktime PRO 5.
10.2 will come with Quicktime 6, and your old key won't work any more....
At this link there is a petition going to ask Apple to reconsider the $100/year fee for those who thought Apple was serious when they said "email address for life".
It's psychosomatic. You need a lobotomy. I'll get a saw.
Why would I want to spend $369 dollars for a bluetooth headset
when I can spend $29.99 for a non-bluetooth headset?
or $399 for a bluetooth HP color inkjet
When I can spend $129.99 for a non-bluetooth HP color inkjet?
I don't think I'm inconvenienced by $200 or $340 to have a cord.
I think my sig more than says it all about these new announcements from Apple.
"For a successful technology, honesty must take precedence over public relations for nature cannot be fooled." -Feynman
You aren't forced to, now, pay Apple for 10.2; you can just, well, install FreeBSD. Or Darwin at least. Or Yellow Dog Linux. Or Debian. Or whatever. Why does exiting Apple mean going for cheaper and lower quality components? You can still run your iBook or 17" iMac with a conventional Linux or BSD based OS...
Now, as I see it, what you're trying to do is avoid becoming an addicted zealot.
That is understandable. I loathe myself for lusting after a 20gb iPod and a 17" iMac or a 23" Cinema HD Display.
But... it almost seems that you're overcompensating in your actions.
"Hm, I don't want to be prey to AppleLust and AppleZealotry, so I'll get rid of my Mac altogether."
Is this like losing weight through purging? Or controlling sexual desire through abstinence?
The weakness is in you, not in Apple. Getting rid of the Apple hardware doesn't remove the fact that you still have that weakness in the first place.
The difference (for me) is that I recognize I have the weakness (AppleLust), but as much as I *want*, I don't let it compel me to instant spot purchases or decisions.
GPL Deconstructed
No, that was System III. (There were, I think, UNIX 4.x releases used inside AT&T, but they were never released as "System IV"; they went straight from "System III" to "System V".)
...get people to "Switch"? Why would I buy a Mac when my $500 Windows-only iPod won't work with it? Apple couldn't design drivers for Windows or jam a few more lines of code onto the firmware so that my new iPod will be cross-platform? Seriously bad move in my opinion. Seriously bad keynote. I'm a bit worried about my favorite company...
As a shareholder, I'm not going to complain about the free (as in beer) services going away. I'd actually like to know exactly how much it cost Apple to host 2+ million email addresses and file space, and how much they'll be saving (and earning) by going to a pay service.
As a consumer, it's quite a disappointment. Having a mac.com address was a nifty thing, and I was just starting to use iDisk and the free Web hosting aspects of the iTools system. It's a shame it's going away.
As an entry level system admin with a smattering of WebObjects experience, I should think it would be possible to remove the iDisk and Web aspects of an iTools account, and leave just the free email service available.
As a loyal Mac user, I'm surprised that Apple would have nuked such a popular system as iTools without offering something, even of a lesser quality, in it's place.
Come to the University of Mars! Classes starting soon!
Has anyone else noticed that Apple has changed their font from Apple Garamond to Lucida Grande? I started to notice the shift with the eMac, but now the entire site seems to be in Lucida Grande.
I use Macs to up my productivity, so up yours Microsoft!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Excuse me? Exactly which iMac has an LCD in a CRT case? Do you even know anything about Macs?
BSD runs on PCs. Darwin might have a version for PCs. The next layer up (Cocoa, Classic...) is never going to run on PCs. So the next level up Aqua is never...
I'm wondering if this means they've fixed the long-standing BSD (and therefore OS X) password issue?
(Once word of that gets around we'll get a few points back on the stock, right? Right?)
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
Uh, that's about 0.854. We're looking for a number around 1.618. Try (1. + 5.**0.5)/2. It is the number Phi such that Phi = 1 + 1/Phi.
As an owner of an original iPod, I too would like a clock, improved interface, calendar, etc. As of now, there is no firmware update whatsoever on the main iPod website (even for old ipods). Perhaps us older owners can take advantage of this as well? also, the remote does not come with the 5 gb new model. Can it be ordered seperately? possibly on ebay? and if so, will it work on older ipods? (they have the connectors for it, but are they connected to the main board?
Microsoft has stopped offering new service packs for NT4.0. The last service pack was 6.0a. This information is dated July 2001.
Why on earth does anyone expect Apple to give OSX updates away for free? Toyota doesn't give away updated cars every year; they don't even give away new tires. O'Reilly doesn't send out free second editions of their books. Sony doesn't give away Playstation games just because you bought a console.
.mac email address also complained about how Apple's email service sucks?
If you want to use a Mac then you have to pay for it, the same way that you pay for a BMW if you don't feel like driving a Yugo.
If you don't want to pay for your OS use Linux or FreeBSD. If you don't like Apple's prices use Windows. I'm sure a lot of you will install a pirated 10.2 update anyway so why complain about it--should Apple send you a blank CDR for free too?
Did anyone over 9 yrs old really think iTools/.mac would be free forever? Either you pay or you get ads pasted into your email--that's how the real world works. Show of hands: how many people who complain about losing their free
Grow up, get a job, pay for shit you use. You'll find out that's how things work outside of the dorm room and mommy's basement.
From scratch for $500 or under, and I'll buy your precious OS... Otherwise, Apple holds a monopoly on the PowerPC market, and in addition, an unfair and artificially inflated pricing scheme for their hardware...
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
> the well-deserved backlash against the French
Tell me again why American people are under-appreciated around the world?
Ok I can understand why some people would be upset having to pay for the full version of 10.2. I for one am excited and can't wait to get my copy, having already ordered it from Apple's online store.
For those who call this a "point" release and bitch about forking over $129 for the full version, I have a few comments:
1) $129 is fhe FULL version, Hell, MS wants $99 for the XP Home edittion UPGRADE! Who gets the better deal? The next time I want to reinstall the OS, I only have to whip out ONE cd and go for it, not reinstall Win2k or whatever first, then intall the XP upgrade. I personally bought the public beta of OS X for $29, then the $99 upgrade to OS X, then paid yet another $19 for the 10.1 update. But. all of those purchases combined with the $129 purchase of 10.2 is STILL cheaper than a full version of Windows XP Professional.
2) Stating that this is merely a point release is a drastic understatement. First of all, look at the features upon features that have been added to this release! There are not just useless GUI enhancements as in most Windows releases (read: XP). CUPS printing support, MS Exchange support in Mail.app, true Windows network compatibility including Active Directory support for network logon and resources, and Quartz Extreme are some of the big ones for me. These may be considered minor enhancements to some, but this makes my Powerbook and iMac seemlessly connect in the enterprise.
If you take a look at all of the additional software, enhancements, and new additions and technologies, then one could argue that migrating from Win 95 to WinXP was merely a "point" release. Just my 2.
http://www.apple.com/switch/ads/ellenfeiss.html
So long anna k.
Where's the fake pr0n?
So I *finally* take the plunge with OS X with a (new to me) PowerBook, and purchase the upgrade to OS X on July 7. Additionally, my significant other purchases a brand new, fully loaded Power Mac G4 on the same day.
And now, because of 10 days, we don't qualify (according to the website) for the upgrade to OS X 10.2, but instead we BOTH need to shell out $129 for TWO copies.
This is not starting off my relationship to Apple very well.
Let me get this straight - we should combine all the specialized protocols into a couple of Meta-protocols. Why? So that people can remember their names. Hmmm.
Look, the naming schemes you refer to are not OSS specific and they have absolutely nothing to do with how ecommerce is adopted. You think grandma needs to know what protocol is serving the form she feeds her cc# into when she buys the latest Oprah Pick at Amazon? No, she just clicks "Buy it now. She could care less about anything more.
You actually think the people in charge of marketing the various distros get any say in anything? WHY? What does a marketing droid know about client server architectures?
As to ease of install, the last time I had to install Win2k it took me 4 hours. I had a standard Asus mlb with an extremely common integrated Sis NIC and soundcard. Win2k couldn't find drivers for any of it - I had to boot to SuSE and download the drivers that way. Thankfully I'd formatted the w2k partition using FAT32 so I could actually save the drivers to the win2k partition rather than burn them to a cd. Then I had to deal with the irritating way windows overwrote my boot sector and the royal mess it made of my partition table. Thank god for parted.
SuSE 8.0, btw, installed without a hitch - it autodetected everything (including the cdrw and soundcard) and had all the appropriate drivers. The install was idiot proof (I could have done it without having to make any decisions at all, but I like a little choice in my package selection). Where's the CS degree required?
Another thing, where did this whole European socialist conspiracy theory garbage come from? OSS doesn't stop at the US borders - it's open to everyone, that's the point.
You sir, are a troll.
The point of this now rantish response is to say that 0.1% of these gee whiz tech demos are going to turn into products. Just because Steve Jobs is on stage doesn't mean it isn't vapor ware.
There is a distinct difference between Apple and everyone else out there that does this. It's why there are a gazillion rumor sites and people get up at all hours to watch the keynote.
When Steve or Avie or Phil talk about a product, a technology, or some other thing, you WILL be able to buy it in short order and it WILL work as demonstrated. Apple has not done a vaporware announcement in the last 3 years at least (last one was Rhapsody which begat Mac OS X which was slightly pre-Jobs). If you see it on stage, you can own it usually within 2 months.
Jaguar will ship on Aug 24 and if you are seeded with Mac OS X betas, you can do it today with the usual beta caveat. The phone he demoed on was the Ericsson T68, which you can buy now (a friend of mine just got one the other day.) It'll also work with at least a dozen other phones and bluetooth equipped PDAs.
I challenge anyone here to point to anything that Apple has mentioned even in passing that will be the next great thing even 3 months out. Nothing that was shown today will ship later than Sept.
No mention of G5s, or future applications, or devices. No tablets that will someday revolutionize your life. No flying cars or vacations on the moon. These guys generally don't even hint at products that they'll ship in 12 *hours* let alone operating systems that will slice cheese in 2006. Bottom line, if Apple talks about it, it'll ship, it'll ship soon, and it'll work.
Instant gratification is a rare thing in this industry, and you get it frequently with Apple. If you can't download it today, you can go to the store and order it today. We got the first mention of iTunes 3 today. I downloaded it no more than 45 minutes later and it does a few things not mentioned in the show. I'm thrilled.
I'm sorry that Microsoft and Sun and all the others have led you to believe that the industry is filled with liars and false prophets. If you would like a change of that view, look at Apple more closely. They don't supposedly have a super-duper tablet shipping next year for $499, but if they've told you that you can put a printer on the network and have your computer identify and configure it automatically, you can bank on it. It's worth the premium to have products that ship and that work as advertised.
Register a copyright for every single iWord you can think of.
iTV, iWord, iSpeak, iFeel (oh wait), iSmell, iWeb, iBrowse, iMagazine, iSocial.
Muahaha
iSmart!
This is why people say they hate surprises.
.NET attack on our wallets has us all edgy, and they pull this stupid .mac stunt and blindside loyal users with this change.
What bugs me about this is that Apple flubbed the spin by being all secret about it. If they would have leaked how much usage had exceeded expectations, then how much of a drain this was causing, I think people would accept this better. Now we feel hoodwinked and betrayed.
On the other hand, they *have* given me a little over two months to clean out my iDisk and shut down my @mac.com addy. It would be nice if they had offered a bare-bones email POP/SMTP, but I've got other adresses and storage possibilities.
So this is one of the moments where I really hate Mr. Jobs' love of secrecy and surprises. Microsoft's
Here is my eMail to Apple, I rest my case:
...but then something happened...
...and then it came! He announced that he had lost his faith and he was now speaking with the voice of the enemy!
.mac policy switch have convinced me of this.
...both with Linux, as I can do everything with them that I could with a .mac (sorry got the . before the end of the sentence...)
Dear(?) Apple,
I was at a local happening here in Finland watching Steve Jobs' speech at the show yesterday. The happening was organised by Apple Finland, and was set in nice surroundings. The snack bar was great and the general atmosphere was very positive as Mac believers gathered to hear the high priest talk to them via the great Internet... The beleivers (me included) were pleased to see and hear their high priest talk with lot of adjectives in his speech. Some of us even cheered in religious extacy...
The high priest started talking in strange voice! Many believers could hear the voice of the enemy in his voice. Even though the high priest tried making some jokes about the enemy, still the voice of the enemy could be heared in his speech.
He even named his new holy artifact after the enemy. I could sense the disbelief in the room. I could even sense the disbelief in the room across the Atlantic! Believers started to open their eyes - they had been worshiping a false icon all along! They had been led to believe that this was the way to enlightment. But now the true nature of this false religion started to show - it is just another religion of many others, all bowing to the enemy...
Well, I for one woke up! I woke from the dream I had been living happily for a few years ow. I used to serve the enemy, I tried other religions and finally settled to this one. But yesterday's speech from the (false) high priest opened my eyes!
I am now changing back to my old religion that serves the Penguin. I was going to buy a new portable artifact this fall, and still am - but it will not be of this religion. The artifact that I will buy shall be of the true religion - I see it now clear!
---
Yes, I am changing back to Linux! I thought OS X would be it, but after yestedays speech I understood that Apple is not an alternative to Microsoft, it's just another derivate of it. Both your OS X 10.2 policy and your incomprihensible iTools to
I'm glad there exists still a real alternative!
I for one am selling my old G4 (while I still can get some money of it) and buying a PC with the money. And the laptop I'll be buying will now be a PC too...
Regretfully yours,
Tuukka Uusheimo
PS. If you even bother to answer this - I'll be reading my mac.com mail until it closes. After that I'll continue my REAL email address, that I get with my ISP account with no extra charge. I for sure am not giving you that address, as I do not want your spam into that address - not any more...
If all else fails, pull the plug and get out...
The Life is out there...
Well, there's no way around this, is there? The whole thing stopping people from hacking a 20GB hard drive into the existing ipods is that the 20GB drive is a little thicker. The thickness coming from the added platter, thus also causing more weight.
... or car prototypes. Surely part of the intention is also to showcase new ideas and see whether they take off?
Personally I would not say Bluetooth is useless. The reason it took such a long time to take off has more to do with working out the radio frequency spectrum than anything else.
My twopence,
Michel
Michel
Fedora Project Contribut
1. All code contain bugs ... Thus one can deduce that you can have a one-line program that is still buggy! :p Michel
2. All code can be made at least 1 line shorter
Michel
Fedora Project Contribut
iTunes 3, iPod updates, iChat, iCal, iSync, a 17" iMac...!
What's next, iBrator?!!
[insert witty comment here]
One of iPhoto's strengths was the ease with which non-computer people could put up their photos on their home page. Without iTools, that goes away. The integration with iTools was a big part of making the iMac usable and interesting for home users, and Apple made a big deal out of that and out of the fact that it was free.
I really, really hope that this is Python2.1, otherwise my Zope install will be broken. And as that's what I run my personal site from, I won't be pleased.
The only thing you can accurately describe as "Scotch" is a sticky tape made by 3M. And it's
the best one i heard was from a friend using the first pet name - mothers maiden name,
It still reminds me of the Adobe upgrade to InDesign fiasco. Adobe came out with InDesign 1.0, which was exciting, but still very horribly beta quality. There was a long list of hugely important bugs (I couldn't even create a document and directly save it -- required a workaround), and we awaited a bug fix desperately.
Then Adobe announced InDesign 1.5 with a $100 upgrade price and most users went ballistic. Yes, they'd added a lot of features, but in order to fix these huge bugs, we had to buy the extra features too! Enough loud shouting and downright angry rants got the price down to $29 for us.
That's like this OS X upgrade (except you did have a couple post 1.0 fixes). You want the bugs and exceptional slowness fixed, but you have to buy a whole bunch of other stuff in order to get it.
Apple is also making us pay for QuickTime Pro all over again as well. So, that's $130 for the OS, $100 (or 50) for .Mac, and 30 for QuickTime.
$260 bucks?!?!! Even 210 isn't that great of a bargain. C'mon Apple, how can you hit us up with all these charges AT ONCE?!?!
I mean, damn, do you really need 3rd and 4rd quarter revenues to be THAT GOOD?!
n/t
Quartz Extreme is nothing like Direct X. They are 'chalk and cheese', to use an English expression.
Open GL is far more comparable to Direct X than Quartz Extreme is is. Direct X is about speeding up graphics performace, primarily in games and 3D applications (much like Open GL).
Quartz Extreme is about the entire Windowing environment and drawing *everything* in Open GL, Direct X does not do this - having Direct X installed does not mean that your Windows, Icons, Desktop and all your applications are displayed using hardware acceleration.
I've been using UNIX for about 18 years? Tried to get off of UNIX once. Withdrawal was hell. All those glittery icons and blue screens of death. I thought I was hallucinating. There wasn't any 12 step programs back then, you see.
So I stayed with UNIX, I needed it. I started working two jobs just to support my habit. I even started pushing it off on kids. I felt so dirty, but it was necessary for me to be able to keep up.
There were flavors! Flavors, man! I needed to taste all of them. Started out with a little SUN, kind of pizza-ish but not bad. IBM was a bit bitter, and the aftertaste was horrible. HP caused me to shake all the time. So I stuck with SUN until someone learned how to fabricate UNIX in a little lab in Europe somewhere.
Linux was born, and I was hooked. I thought I had been bad before, but that was nothing compared to what happened to me next.
I started forcing my outlook on people. They just had to know UNIX. I couldn't stop myself, the more people I hooked, the higher my ranking became.
Then it happened. All those users we used to scoff and laugh at found a new way to manufacture UNIX. They new how to market it better, how to wrap it up in all the shiny buttons and pictures that had turned me back to UNIX so long ago.
They were sucking people in by droves.
So you're saying that because this gentleman has used a Macintosh for 18 years, and has for the most part enjoyed this use, that he is an addict to the Apple platform? I say, thank God for the addicts. They help us to see what is real in the world.
"Genius may shine aloof and alone, like a star, but goodness is social, and it takes two men and God to make a Brother."
Never, ever, ever, ever buy a Mac right before Macworld Season.
Some lessons are learned the hard way.
This now concludes our broadcast day.
over to a Thinkpad A31 from my present Mac. Hasta luego, Apple!
talk about encouragement. I'm glad I have friends who will most likely have an "extra copy laying around". With an enemy like Apple out there, it's sure good to have friends.
Since when can 98 not use USB mice? My ole 98 laptop doesn't know about this apparantly. You're right about the memory though, you had to tweak to prevent problems with 512 or more ram & it didn't take adventage of it even then.
Free Mac Mini Yeah, it's
I'm OS-agnostic, pretty much, and three of my friends were convinced by the "Switch" ads to go to the local SuperMegaComputerCenterStore and look at Apple product on Monday. They convinced me to go along with them.
.Mac and the stupid free e-mail accounts going away and Apple charging for the bugfixes. The one who already ordered canceled his order and the other two are not considering Macs anymore. Which is somewhat sad for Apple's marketing department, if you think about it: here they managed to lure in three customers, fully ready to plop down their dosh for product, and then by going on the cheap and behaving like other computer companies, Apple lost a couple of points of differentiation that it sorely needed to help justify its pricing. The customers saw that mac.com email as a kind of exclusive club that only Macintosh owners could join, a paid-for fringe benefit that came with the higher hardware price. Likewise the insanely great software and free bugfixes. Take it all away and all you have to compete with is quality, which doesn't necessarily win in this marketplace.
All of them were sold on buying Macintoshes Monday night (not by my efforts, just by sitting in front of them and using them.) One of the three ordered one that night for pickup Friday since only a demo was in stock of what he wanted, the other two were going to wait and see if they could get better deals after Wednesday.
Then they heard about
This will really make you want to change to Mac!
Strangely, free BSD varients based on "4.4BSDlite" started over, numbering their first releases "1.0" rather than "4.5", etc. (386BSD started this scheme, the last versions were 0.9) FreeBSD is currently in the development branch is working on 5.0 (current release version 4.6, soon to be 4.6.1). I assume that AT&T, or whoever owns the trademark now, won't try to make them not number it 5.0, as they went to court with BSDI to make sure *BSD couldn't call it "Unix", so making them not number it 5.0 so people wouldn't confuse it with being a more recent version of Unix would seem hypocritical don't you think? :-)
If you think this is bad, you should compare Linux distribution numbering systems; which practically are completely arbitrary. One vendor's 7.3 is another vendor's 8.2 in every practical sense except marketing.
For one thing, Red Hat 6 was a mature OS when released (for free) as release code. OS X 10.0, on the other hand was beta code that cost $129.
I wouldn't say I'd be paying for features I "don't need", I'd say I'm paying for features I ALREADY paid for... Aqua was supposed to be high-performance all along, not as a $129 upgrade. Carbon was supposed to work all along, not as a $129 upgrade.
I use OS X.1.5 exclusively on my mac, (mandrake supporting samba on my music server) and I can tell you there are many aspects of this OS that need work, that some parts of OS X are production-ready, some are not. Carbon libraries, for example, have several flaws...The first that comes to mind is the one that makes Mozilla OS X crash and burn if you launch it from a UFS partition.
Yes, it is a good OS concept. Yes, it "looks" good. Yes, some of the functionality is there, BUT, a lot of basic stuff simply isn't.
Printing, for a second example, is a disaster for OS X users... Better carefully test a printer before you deploy it in production with OS X. Variably, the new drivers: Don't exist; Do but have flaws that make output inconsistent or; (occasionally, in Candyland) Work perfectly when released. And there's no hard and fast rules, either. Your $1000 printer is as likely to print reliably in OS X as your $50 one.
I have one of each, and neither one prints worth a shit from OS X. I guess you could say that I personally have a 0% chance of printing reliably from OS X as it stands today.
Who did what now?
I think you're totally right here.
The mac.com address was a great viral marketing tool for Apple. It's essentially like wearing a t-shirt 24 hours a day that says, "I own a Mac and love it. Ask me questions about switching."
Now what happens when people drop their mac.com addresses in droves, angry with Apple for their bait-and-switch?
Apple has earned so much goodwill over the past few years for their embrace of UNIX and Open Source technologies. I guess they think it's time to burn some karma.
He who refuses to do arithmetic is doomed to talk nonsense.
Apple is the first one to tell you not to use UFS in OS X. There's no reason to use it. HFS+ is better.
Printing, for a second example, is a disaster for OS X users...
I have a two year old, discontinued Epson Sylus Photo 870, and it works as well in OS X as in 9. better actually, because in 9 if you used background printing, the Epson monitor would usually crash.
It must be your installation of OS X... the UFS partition is a tip off...
-- if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic - Lewis Carrol
Amazing all the flaming that goes on when Apple mentioned. Hey- bottom line is: You have a choice!! Don't like it, don't use it. :)
I'm a little peeved about the upgrade price, just bought the X in January, but hey- I'll get over it.
An idea for Apple though- I think they should give a dedicated user discount. If you can provide proof of purchase for all major OS versions (6,7,8,9,10) you get this one free.
Every Day Above Ground Is A Good One!!