Slashdot Mirror
RIAA Grabs Student's Life's Savings
An anonymous reader writes "ABCNews is reporting on a 19-year-old college student at Rensselaer Polytechnic Institute in Troy, N.Y. He created a site named ChewPlastic.com where students could search for files on the university network. Mind you, this is not a music file sharing software, this is just a search engine. Presumably, the search engine was being used to search for music files as well. The folks over at the RIAA did not take too kindly to the idea, and sued the student. He settled but denies any wrongdoing. What was settlement, you ask? His life's savings."
I am assuming the name for this site is derived from the only remaining use for CDs?
Mother, do you think they'll like this sig?
that is pretty lame...someone needs to go after the RIAA...there out of control..
and actually felt a bit sick [read: really disgusted angry feeling inside me]. i've recovered now.
Lets see, when I was a college student my Life savings was always near zero, what with the high cost of tuition and beer.
Slashdot is an anagram for Has Dolts, and I am Dolt number 468543
People suing Google because their 10 year old found porno?
Suing Yahoo because someone found copyright material on an unauthorized page? GASP!
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Free your mind.
They can take our lives, but they can never take our Direct Connect Hub!! err... Freedom!
greetz to da 254-high klan
I guess the "and your firstborn" clause of the settlement wasn't made public.
Someone should start a fund to help this kid out...
Google cache of chewplastic.com.
The original domain is down, and he's got a Paypal link on his page to help him recover his 12 grand.
End of lesson. You may press the button.
If he lost all the cash he had anyway, what did he have to lose by fighting?
what is it with government and big business.. they crap on us and we allow it. They lie to us and we allow it. We elect them.. we need to change things. If you don't vote don't bitch! ROCK THE VOTE.
doesn't the RIAA have something better to do than sue some college kid for making a search engine. hell, you can use Google and find some MP3s, I guess they are next.
When the RIAA does stuff like this, it just makes people more likely to steal from them.
Now we know where all the ex-KGB agents went. They now work for the RIAA. It's a sad time when your afraid to develop something because it 'MIGHT' be used for illegal things. Bastards!
Why worry? Each of us is wearing an unlicensed "nucular" accelerator on his back.
Sig changed for readability by G.W.
The ABC article states: "ChewPlastic.com is asking for donations to help recover the $12,000 settlement. As of June 6, the site has collected more than $1,700."
-- Kircle
Shouldn't there be a pay-pal link, so we can pretend that we'll donate money?
Anybody else find something wrong with that quote? His father is quite right -- by allowing him to deny all charges, they're basically saying he didn't do anything wrong...yet they take his $12,000.
Mike.
Mmmm......sacrelicious.
The news report goes on to state that the RIAA is now prowd owners of an old bike, a Pentium II numerous games, a pair of worn-out jeans and a large untidy pile of magazines.
the story says he has been a music fan for over 40 years. I don't know if "trust fund brat" covers old people :)
why the hell did he settle when it is obvious he'd won in court? and then he could countersue the shit out of them for compensation...
but then again.. 100 bucks might be worth not needing to..
Seeing as my total life savings when a senior in college was deep in the negative digits, I should have been so creative as to get the RIAA to assume my debt.
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Jedimom.com, picking out a thermos for you.
StrategyTalk.com, PC Game Forums
Holy crap, I'm really glad I graduated from RPI in 2002 before the RIAA decided to sue the entire student body.
Seriously though, I'm gonna have to start donating money to support student lawsuits rather than to build new dorms if this keeps up.
Attention deficit disorder is a complicated issue, spanning several major... HEY LET'S GO RIDE BIKES!
I guess my favorite response of "fuck you, blow me" when threatend with RIAA lawsuits is passe. Trust me it works. RIAAs lawyers are pussies.
People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them
and I don't care.
It's monday morning. I'm in a bad mood to begin with.
Perhaps I just have a chemical imbalance, or emotional issues, but I swear if I had some sort of automatic weapon available and access to many people at the RIAA....
or perhaps I have a flair for imagination. I'm not violent, but I have a *VERY* low tolerance to pushing around or abusing those with no means to defend themselves.
grrr...
Karma: Chameleon (mostly due to the fact that you come and go).
Considering that what this guy did is no different to what google does, I think that the law in the USA is going to hand over the financial control over every US citizen's wallets to the RIAA.
The only plus point in all of this is that sooner or later the RIAA will be so immensely unpopular even amongst non issue aware people, that there will be a backlash against the RIAA in the form of simply nobody buying CD's anymore.
It's one thing to protect copyrights. I get the idea that those who develop creative works should be compensated and protected from piracy.
But the RIAA is motivated by pure greed. Their message isn't "protect copyrights." It's "we want all of your money."
...he's now going to have Chewed Plastic...in his wallet as he uses his credit cards to get around until he builds up his savings again.
But the 'advetising' that he gets from the noteriety may make it easier for him to get noticed by hiring firms out there...
"The people who run these Napster networks know full well what they are doing: Operating a sophisticated network designed to enable widespread music thievery," Cary Sherman, the president of the RIAA, said in a statement issued April 3. No, they are operating a sophisticated network designed to enable copyright infringement. Big difference. I know I'm beating a dead horse here but there needs to be an end to this thievery talk.
Mother, do you think they'll like this sig?
Which gives me a genius idea... the only people able to operate P2P sites in the future will be minors. Great move RIAA, push teenagers into crime.
Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
Very few articles make me angry. This one did.
RIAA _is_ a bully. Someone needs to stop them.
The only thing I can do is stop buying music - which will hurt the artists I like - and listen to it on the radio. Neither truly feeding the flames, nor the coffers of the RIAA.
BlackNova Traders
If you could please send the proper paper work we can get started ASAP. The bully only stays a bully so long, then someone comes along and beats the ever living shit out of that bully and makes them realize that they aren't allowed to be a bully any longer.
Bring it, I'm tired of you picking on all my peers and I'm ready to kick your ass. Remember when you take me to court, IT ALL COMES ON THE TABLE, and I'll subpoena everything!!!
Ignore the "p2p is theft" trolls, they're just uninformed
Corporations own the politicians. A perfect example of marketing in action. People vote for the person they see in commercials, not the candidate that best matches their beliefs. Most people couldn't tell you where the people they vote for stand on any issues at all with confidence. It takes money to buy commercials and as a consequence to win you have to kiss ass to corporate America.
People shouldn't be sharing music on the network, that's what's illegal. Someone else said this, but yeah, I'm waiting for the headline that reads "5-year-old's mother sues google for finding porn"
Speak before you think
This is simply cruel and unusual. Now the RIAA is going after anyone who makes a search engine that could _possibly_ track down music files? And they don't even have to have a legal case! They can simply threaten to litigate poor college students into the ground and then demand their life savings in a case settlement! These bastards should be taken out and flogged. I hope these assholes go out of business in flaming wreckage from services like Kazaa. It's not less than they deserve.
This is just another example of a legitimate tool (like a hammer) which has "evil" uses (like a hammer) being struck down based solely on the fact that is has "evil" uses.
There is a saying.. Don't blame the hammer (or in this case, the hammer's creator) for being a hammer; blame the person stupid enough to crack open his friend's head with it.
It's unfortunate he settled so quickly instead of trying to get some backing from say the EFF or some other similar organization. I would love to have a nice search engine for my university's network.
In C++, friends can touch each others private parts.
Hell...considering my life savings is less than the price of a couple iTunes songs, that' doesn't sound like that bad of a deal! Just hope Jesse's in the same boat as me. aa
So this kid gets sued by the RIAA for writing a generic search engine, is forced to settle for $12,000 (his entire life savings), and his only real shot at recouping all his settlement money is flushed down the toilet by a massive denial of service attack "unwittingly" perpetrated by Slashdot?
:(
This world is a cruel, cruel place.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
once again, this story is interesting enough without the sensationalistic spin the slashdot editor felt it needed.
The RIAA didn't "grab" anything, they settled with the student, which doesn't nearly sound as sinister as they made it out to be.
And his life savings was only $12000, which isn't anything to sneeze at, but it's not like a bank robbery here.
You want to debate this case fine, but please let go of this wild overreaching hyperbole.
SIG:Slashdot: indymedia for nerds.
The RIAA keeps getting more bold (and ridiculous) in its strong-arm techniques.
Someone very wise once said "Follow the money". The major labels are the RIAA's clientelle, and I think I can reasonably assume they give their ascent to the RIAA's "business practices" (read: extortion), otherwise they'd be very upset about public relations backlash against them and their products. This backlash may happen eventually.
Now assuming that this ascent to these techniques is present, perhaps contractually, what happens when the wrong student is sued, and a very wealthy, but up to now quiet and non-pressworthy relative (such as a rich uncle that the RIAA didn't count on), steps forward and says to his nephew, "No, you are not caving, and I've secured the services of an excellent law firm that specializes in the RICO act."
As I said, follow the money. I look forward to the day when some unassuming student, that was doing nothing wrong, takes the major labels for a few billion. Yes, with a B.
Hell if you can sue someone who producess something because that iteam COULD be used for something illegal then the gun manufacturers could be getting it soon. Maybe they will have to give their entire life savings too :)
I'm assuming that settlement was out of court... that idea scares me, because that means that the person doesn't even have to technically be breaking any law - the RIAA just has to scare them into stopping what they're doing. $12000 is nothing to the RIAA - it's just something to scare people away from creating similar networks, even if that's completely within the person's legal rights. Most college students don't have the time or money for a lawsuit, and so like big corporations with imposing, expensive lawyers can have their way with them.
I produce electronic music and write little games. Have a look.
"They agreed to allow Jesse to deny their allegations. They agreed to dismiss the case and all allegations against him," Andy said. "Basically they agreed that he didn't do anything wrong, but [they're] taking his 12 grand."
Andy is the kid's father, and he fully stands behind him, which is encouraging to read.
While Andy questions the motives and actions of the RIAA, he basks in pride at his son's steadfast resolve.
"He has stood up to the schoolyard bullies that are pulling this and he's said, 'You are not going to make me say something that's not true,'" Andy said.
Apart from wondering how things have changed since I was a student that any university student can have $12,000 in savings, this just plain sucks. How the #$%^ do they get away with this? Read that again...the kid gets to pay $12,000 for the privilege of being graciously permitted to continue denying he did anything wrong!
So the RIAA knows they haven't a leg to stand on (unless you can believe they were being altruistic in not forcing a black mark on the student's permanent record -- yeah, right), and still somehow forces him to pay them all his money.
Blackmail, 'blak-"mAl
a : extortion or coercion by threats especially of public exposure or criminal prosecution b : the payment that is extorted
the story says he has been a music fan for over 40 years. I don't know if "trust fund brat" covers old people :)
Way to read, slick. The article says the teens dad has been a music fan for 40 years.
Every day we seem to hear a story like this about the MPAA or RIAA. There's one on theregister.co.uk about a 19 year old being threated with legal action by the MPAA over his domain name, they're threatening him with $100,000. They release bad music that nobody wants to buy, so they turn to extortion, was Al Capone a founder member?
What groups are there that peole can join to help fight this scum?
Someone needs to stand up to the RIAA/MPAA, they shouldn't be able to get away with this crap. Suing a student, who has no nope of defeating a giant like the RIAA in court, so he settles. Just amazing that they get away with this. /writes another letter to his congressman.
Case in point: my roommate was sued by a major staffing company because of "alleged" violations of his noncompete agreement. He talked to literally dozens of attorneys before he found one who was willing to take the case. On the first court date the attorney he hired filed a motion to dismiss and won.
It can be difficult to fight "the man" but patience and determinism will pay off in the long run.
With organizations like the RIAA, people are going to fear innovating. This kid, obviously fairly smart or innovative, gets slammed for coming up with a nifty way to searc for files on his school's network. Granted, he probably should have checked with the school, the President, God, Homer, and a few others to make sure it was ok to do, but he got nailed for solving a problem. In our lawsuit-happy society, people will fear getting sued and thus will stop trying to come up with solutions to problems.
It's just very scary how as a society we are unable to solve simple things now. I'd be afraid to open a lemonade stand because of the IRS coming down on me or someone suing me for getting sick, maybe I didn't meet some health code. And yet I probably could have made 50 people in my neighborhood happy. You're probably thinking "what does lemonade have to do with this?" A bit. Read the my first paragraph. Read the second. What kind of idea have you or a friend come up with? If not fearing the lawsuit itself, the costs associated with hiring a lawyer to make sure it's legal is certainly cost-prohibitive enough.
*sigh* I fear our great nation of innovators will be too scared to use their brains...
"He uses statistics as a drunken man uses lampposts...for support rather than illumination." - Andrew Lang
A company agrees to a settlement with the stipulation that they do not admit guilt. Theyimmediately come out with a press release denying guilt but saying they settled with the intent of putting it behind them.
I have discovered a truly marvelous sig, unfortunately the sig limit is too small to contain i
"40 years" is his dad speaking. RTFA.
Sig for sale or rent. One previous user. Inquire within.
Basically by subsidizing the site, you're giving money to the RIAA. Had he had some cojones and stood up to the bully I'd happily contribute to his legal fund. This however.. no.
...is to get "sued" by a friend for close the amount of my life savings for something like mental anguish and actual damages for kicking in my dad's car door, "settle" the amount with them first, then turn to the RIAA and say "ok, take $1000 bucks".
This case of the RIAA's abuse is truly insane. It is one of the problems inherent in the legal system of this country. If you don't have several thousand dollars to defend yourself against frivolous lawsuits, you're screwed.
But this also brings up a different point. It always helps to put at least some of your money in a trust, where it's protected. Particularly for education, it makes the most sense. I just hope the RIAA doesn't do this to a Ted Kaczinski type of person, because the way this is going someone will escalate it to that level eventually.
Sorry, but where does when get money to safe while in college ? No really
We need to establish a Programmer's Legal Defense Fund. Take a look at other legal defense funds that have been set up by other activist organizations to see how they work.
Travis
He settled
This seems a predictable outcome in a contest between Godzilla and Bambi.
Clearly, the student didn't have much money to defend himself in court, otherwise this obviously weak case would have been lost by the RIAA. If misuse of a local search engine was a crime, then may we expect RIAA to sue google for its role as people search for online music using that search engine? I don't think so.
The RIAA is reinforcing their reputation as greedy bullies, which will serve to exacerbate the problem they're trying to combat.
"Provided by the management for your protection."
and in other news, SCO is sueing RIAA for eating into the profits they were going to get by selling a unix liscense to this site.
In the Princeton Alumni Weekly magazine a couple of issues ago it was reported that Daniel Peng, a Princeton student who had set up a similar service, settled with the RIAA for some $15,000.
- 03 /15-0514/notebook.html#Notebook6c eton.edu/~paw/archive_new/PAW02-03 /16-0604/notebook.html#Notebook6
http://www.princeton.edu/~paw/archive_new/PAW02
http://www.prin
Well, judging from my comment, I *DID* RTFA, just not very well.
Grrr... this just makes me want to pirate music.
My first reaction to the story was to wish someone had referred Jesse and his father to the EFF instead of letting the RIAA bully them into a settlement.
/.'ers X $1 each)
Upon futher reflection though, perhaps the Jordans have made a huge personal sacrifice as part of a very strategic move against the RIAA. IF, and it's a big if, the facts of the case do make it out to the public (i.e. that he was just making a search engine for the campus network, which has plenty of legitimate uses) this may be the match lighting the fuse of a popular boycott of the RIAA.
Maybe not, but whether the plan works or not, we should all donate a bit and help Jesse get his life savings back. (12000
~Kirk
why didn't the university stand up and defend the rights of its student?
For all the good the RIAA has done in the past, (standing up for freedom of expression, etc...) they have done their absolute best to negate the benefits of their continued existence.
Time for ideas. Legal or otherwise, what methods exist to destroy this organization? The time has come. I think there are more than a few people who would be willing to help at this point.
The RIAA needs to be removed, and an example should be set for others who would engage in similar practices. (i.e. the MPAA, BSA, etc...)
Consider this an RFP or a fatwa. Let's hear viable ideas!
This is basically what's wrong with settling lawsuits and plea bargaining criminal cases. Nothing new.
Does this mean that google would be responsible for users who search the web with their search engine for BITTorrent files?
Visualize the world of wine
A few well-addressed letters would have gotten this kid a whole team of his very own legal sharks to combat this industry-funded extortion... if what he says was true.
Tuition for the '02-'03 year was approximately $26,400. It was somewhat less when I attended, but not signifigantly. Did I get what I paid for? Probably. I've got a decent job with a decent salary. Then again, I didn't have to send half of a year's tuition to an organization that purports to represent the interests of the musicians. I wonder how much of that $12,000 actually went back to those musicians... I'd guess not a penny. Are they getting what they're paying for?
how much did you pay for the deer suit and the bullseye?
I would have been a lot more willing to chip into a legal defense fund, just to prove the RIAA wrong, than to give money to some kid who just bent over and gave them $12,000. Hell, the university should have chipped in some of their legal staff, because what's next? Is the RIAA going to sue colleges for contracting somebody to provide them with search services?
"There is no night so forlorn, no mood so bleak, that it cannot be infused with pleasure by tender meat..." - R.W. Apple
Well, now I have an excuse to fulfill my life dream: Hack google (10,000 linux servers + bandwidth, remember?) and turn its servers against the RIAA, collecting information, including names, adresses, and passwords, and do all sorts of nasty stuff. Ideally a worm, to be automated..
but thats just my nasty side talking. There's probably a way to resolve RIAA nastyness..
"The most looniest, zaniest, spontaneous, sporadic Impulsive thinker, compulsive drinker, addict"
As have been pointed out elsewhere, Microsoft's OSes have built in software to allow searching across networks, which could easily be used to search for MP3s. Does the RIAA intend to go after Microsoft? That wouldn't make much sense, as Microsoft would bury it.
Here's a question. Let's say that a student sets up a web-page explaining how students could use Windows' built-in Search app to find files, including MP3s, across the university's network. Would the RIAA sue the student for merely explaining how to use it?! It think they would.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Sure, there are lots of problems with the political system, but if you don't vote, don't complain. True enough that voting doesn't necessarily change anything, but I can guarantee that if you don't vote, your voice will not be heard at all. An apathetic electorate only strenghens the hand of the commercial interests that hope to buy favors.
How about a grass roots campaign Slashdot style....
Let's find out who the RIAA's lawyers were for all the case where they're suing students and sign them up for catalogs and junkmail, just like we've done for spammers. IMHO, while the spammers are vile creatures, they are nothing compared to the evilness of the RIAA.
Why do I get the feeling that -- instead of the "pirates" -- the RIAA is the one going around stealing money from honest people?
What's this with America? Land of freedom?
Don't you people start to realise that America currently is one of the least free countries in the world? It's not starting to be... no... it is.
I mean c'mon... powerful organisations can put pressure on people to simply steal their money (*period*). Maybe it wasn't because of the money, maybe it was to scare people... okay... erm... Wtf?? Is that normal??
I really really really don't get it; hope someone can explain to me why America is the land of the free (and this RIAA thing, of course, is not the only event in the past several years I'm referring to). So many examples to give that are so enormously simmilar to totalitarian regimes. (mind my words: I don't mean to say the US is a true dictatorship, just trying to say it's half-way there compared to the majority of other western countries and it's fundamental different in the sense that the government itself is not the entire problem: think big businesses)
Isn't it time to let your government know you're a citizen with rights? Please let me understand why you're not en-mass standing up to this development. I know you are a good and great people, I just don't understand this.
Wow, has noone noticed this is OLD NEWS? Slashdot covered it over a month ago when the kid was interviewed about the $12k settlement here. *sigh*
I can't believe that the RIAA has the audacity to take this guy's money. If they can't make money on record sales, I guess they'll make it at the expense of search engine writers. I suppose it's the only way they can pay for all the lawsuits they've had a hand in recently. We need to have an Anti-RIAA/Anti-MPAA Association to fight these guys. These guys are WAY out of control! - Slew -
Just to remind everyone: when this was a new story (weeks ago, in the first weeks of may) it was calculated that his tuition for the semester was something on the order of $20,000. This is pretty standard for a decent school. Now, consider this: in order for him to go through the court proceedings, he would have missed his finals, thus losing him all the money he spent on that semester.
That would necessitate counter-suing, then, to recoup that $20,000, plus legal fees.
So in the end, if he wanted to fight this, he would have needed to not only argue for his innocence, but also that the RIAA was sufficiently innapropriate in suing him that they were responsible for both his legal fees (which could exceed several thousand dollars, most likely) and also his lost $20,000 from school. Conferring with a few friends who are lawyers in this field, the consensus is that to get the legal fees at least, he'd have to demonstrate far more than his innocence, but also the RIAA's foreknowledge of his innocence most likely. As for the lost $20,000, he'd have to demonstrate both the foreknowledge of his innocence, as well as an intentional effort to time their lawsuit to cause him those damages. Thats not locked in stone - different judges can apply the rules differently.
Basically, my point is that this kid lost $12,000 this way. If he had fought it, he'd have lost $20,000 at least, plus legal fees, plus potentially losing tens of thousands of dollars if he lost the court case. Worse, he could face academic punishments for failing a full courseload (that would depend on his school).
Now, I'm not saying this is fair, since I dont necessarily agree with the RIAA intentionally targetting individuals who cannot afford to fight back, but I'm just trying to make it clear to everyone here why this kid did what he did.
"Stumble before you crawl"
My favorite quote from the article: "They agreed to allow Jesse to deny their allegations. They agreed to dismiss the case and all allegations against him," Andy said. "Basically they agreed that he didn't do anything wrong, but [they're] taking his 12 grand."
Think about that next time you buy a CD and give these greedy pigs another $18.
"Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned for SEGA. ..."
Seriously, get some balls people. Countersue for harassment.
Give me Classic Slashdot or give me death!
...I vow never to buy another CD ever again. Or until at least the value of music (not retail cost, the value) I download is equal to, or greater than this kid's life savings. Depending on how good the kid was with money, I could have hit it already.
And, as Bruce Almighty once said... "Smite me, oh RIAA, smite me."
Oh, was that (C), too?
NFM.
-- Liberalism is a mental disorder.
Why can't Al-Qaida come and fuck up the RIAA, they're the real capitalist greedy pig f**kers. If you read this Osama, go get 'em boy.
Just think about it, since it seems so easy to sue individuals for "stealing" music for $10k or so, I think if this keeps up, RIAA will reap serious profits from many individuals living in the US via lawsuits of this nature. If they successfully sue (read: 'extort from') just a million people, that's $10 billion into their pockets, especially along with the misconception that they are part of the government (remember that CNN article a while back about those university students?)
They really should die. Then again, if they choose to live by the lawsuit, they die by the lawsuit. Hopefully.
Please direct all bug reports to
Hmm, lets see, life savings....
I'm graduating in a few weeks, here in the good old United Kingdom. My life savings....
-£12,000 student loan
-£2,500 credit card and bank overdraft
-£6,000 borrowed from parents.
£32.56 - investment account from about 20 years ago
£1.52 - current account from about 8 years ago
PIII-600, cant liquidate it cause its a tool of a trade.
come on RIAA, I've got 8,000 mp3's and a copy of "find", sue my ass so I can become bankrupt, lose all my debts, and be free with a degree!
Are there any official campaigns to get people to stop buying CDs from RIAA members? If not maybe we should start one....
----
now i'm really scared. I won't even think about copying a CD. I will lock my computer into the closit. I will lock my self into the bathroom.
sorry mormons. please don't kill me.
Yeah, it's called a Daisy Cutter.
It was a joke! When you give me that look it was a joke.
- Do a couple of something like: dd if=/dev/zero of=LOTR.Two.Towers.Complete.dvdrip.divx.avi
- Make a webpage with links to your fake warez and post it to search engines.
- Repeat the previous with different variations
- Wait for your ISP or the RIAA to contact you.
- Reply with a polite and legally correct letter asking for proof that you have infringed on someones copyright... This letter could be prepared by someone from the filesharing community who has studied law. Please someone fill in the details here
- Goto 1.
IANAL, would this work? A couple hundred thousand of these fake cases could perhaps force the RIAA to go after the real bad guys -- the ones that make pirating a business.now what is the RIAA going to do? sue limewire or kazaa because people are using it to share more than music??? what is the world of big business coming to??? attacking college kids? what jerks. BLOW ME, RIAA!!!!
5,000 music CDs printed at a cost of 5 bucks each, and sold for 15 dollars is 50,000 dollars profit. In record contracts, usually you have to sell millions before you see an equivalent amount of money. People pay as much for a band t-shirt.
The best act of revenge against the RIAA would be to encouraged this with every local band you know. This would choke them off. Best of all, a good band could grow the business to be really huge, they would just cut out the middle men every step of the way.
If most bands did this, the big record companies would to cut back to their own traditional staples, such as classical music. And even then...
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
Does anyone else notice that the RIAA's only suing people too poor to hire a lawyer to act in their defense? Personally, I think the next person that gets sued like this should just set up a PayPal account and get their case posted on Slashdot. I doubt they'd have to pay a cent.
Anything you might ever need to say about anything has already been said better by Penny Arcade.
If we really want to get serious and cripple the MPAA and the RIAA there is only one way to stop them: take away their money. Stop patronizing member companies. Don't buy their movies, don't buy their music. Don't watch their shows, and don't do anything that gives them monitary benefit. I claim our very freedoms are at stake. Aren't they worth giving up a little entertainment?
how did chewplastic work? how/what did it search exactly?
On my college network, it was easy enough to search for files on public network shares directly from the windows interface - while not nearly as fast or elegant as a web interface, it's the same function nonetheless.
Not only is the inclusion of this feature in windows clearly "bundling", but it can be used for illegal purposes too!
ABC's 20/20 features a weekly segment by John Stossel (a very good journalist, IMO) called "Give me a break"
s tossel_gmabfilesharing030509.html
A few weeks ago this case of the four students and the RIAA was covered:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/GiveMeABreak/
The One Rule Of Chess You'll Ever Need: Don't play someone who carries a kit in their bookbag.
I don't know about most college students, but my life savings went to ZERO and kept dropping the second I enrolled at college.
If I had fallen for the DeBeers crap of "Two Months Salary" being spent on a wedding ring, and proposed to my wife in college, I'd end up asking her for money to buy the ring.
M@
Krispy Cream is people
Is it legal for 500 people to stand outside RIAAs lawyers office with baseball bats? The only reason they can get away with this is because they feel they are untouchable. It's time for them to realize they are not. I've seen this type of thing before. If you rollover for they keep coming back for more.
You made a search engine? Fuck you pay me!
You wanna buy a blank CD? Fuck you pay me!
In college? Fuck you pay me!
Ex girlfriend left CD in your car? Fuck you pay me!
Sound familiar?
It's time for RIAA to sleep with the fishes. I from jersey we know how to do it.
People who bite the hand that feeds them usually lick the boot that kicks them
Our (Swedish) campus network has had a similar custom search engine for years. The client program is even called "mp3get", so it's pretty obvious what the main purpose is.
>And his life savings was only $12000, which isn't anything to sneeze at, but it's not like a bank robbery here.
For Bill Gates, no. For the average working stiff, still not going to ruin them.
For someone who only has $12,000, this is everything.
Would you be outraged if you saw someone stealing a bum's cardboard box and tin can collection?
I hope so.
If you could be told what you can see or read, then it follows that you could be told what to say or think - BoC
I realize that the EFF have a lot to do already, but this strikes me as a singularly visible case-- does anyone know if this guy talked to them?
Maybe he'll be able to countersue? I mean, the RIAA basically admitted that he didn't do anything wrong, if I understand the article correctly...
It's these articles on Slashdot and on other sites in the media.
/.)
(Please hold off your flames till you read the rest of the article...I'm *not* blaming
The reason I say that these articles are killing the music industry is that they show us the truth about the RIAA. People read articles like this and they think to themselves "There is no way in hell I'm going to give them any of my hard earned money if they're going to treat me like a criminal."
They stop recording good artists and replace them with bands that appeal to the 13-15 year old schoolgirls who will buy the CD because it's the latest fad.
They attack anyone who designs some means of sharing (or hell even *finding* files) even if MP3 isn't the frimary function of the file sharing. Honestly I'm amazed they haven't gone after the people who invented networking protocals in the first damn place.
They are more concerned about making money than they are about the art form itself, not paying attention to the fact that if they put out quality product then they *will* make money because we want to buy it.
We know what the articles read, we see them each and every day that goes by about how draconian the RIAA has become. It's these articles that are killing the RIAA's profits for they are pissing off the American Music Listener. If the RIAA wants to start making money again they need to simply do one thing...Stop pissing off your customer base and we will come back.
Otherwise I'm just going to stand there and watch the RIAA slowly die and I'm not going to give them a single penny to save them...even if that means that I never get a copy of "Weird Al" Yankovic's latest album
-- Wiccan Army, 13th Airborne Division "We will not fly silently into the night"
..what a victory!!
instead of educating a bright person they can now pay for their advocates and office expenses. oh right, maybe toss few bucks to those labels too, who give 25 cents to.. I don't know.. britney?
what can i say, great country you have there.
There was more at stake there than the $12,000.
He faced a felony conviction. If convicted of a felony, he would never be able to vote again, or own a firearem.
This is one of the most egregious terms of the DMCA: it takes what should be a civil matter and makes if criminal.
Without knowing the facts of a case, as a juror, I would never confict anyone under DMCA. Jury nullification remains a strong tool in the citizens toolbox. As citizens we must fight rather than do the "Let's make a deal" so common in the criminal justice system today. As jurors we must use jury nullification to weaken bad laws.
We should only use criminal law against criminals!
Yeah those theiving bastards! That last especially. The whole lot should get the chair.
the Entire recording industry, all "big" businesses and their employees and the entire count of elected representatives are not even 6 percent of the population, yet they fuck with the majority! Time for revolution to address past grievences. The minority needs to be eliminated so they will leave the majority alone. Death is not good enough for these bastards. They should be forced to listen to Tiny Tim's rendition of Tiptoe through the Tulips until they die! No food, no water, no sleep.
Hint: a lawyer who advises you to settle when you have done nothing wrong is not a good lawyer.
What planet do you live on? Litigation is a fact of life - sometimes, people get sued. Your mission as a defendant is to make it go away. If you have a really strong case, you can make it go away by fighting and winning. If you don't, or you don't have any money, or your time is worth enough that it's too much trouble to fight it, you settle.
It works this way even in criminal cases. It's a cost-benefit analysis: do I plea-bargain to just pay a fine and get a slap on the wrist, or do I defend it and risk a higher penalty? Whether or not you did anything has little to do with it.
A good lawyer is one who advises you to settle when it would be in your best interest. Foolish pride has nothing to do with it.
ASA
All employees must wash hands before seeking equitable relief.
The biggest problem I've had is that no candidate supports my position. If I disagree with everyone, who the FSCK should I vote for? The lesser of several evils?
I'd run myself, but even disregarding the money issues I'd have, there are minimum ages for members of Congress...
Show me a candidate who represents me, and I'll vote for him.
GeekNights!
Late Night Radio for Geeks!
...I don't live in the great "land of the free" where money has replaced justice, common sense and freedom in a few years without any major uproar. Try to imagine the image most foreign nerds have of the USA... all we see is frivolous lawsuits, the freedom of innocent people thrown away, utterly stupid laws like the DMCA and patent-nonsense like the GIF-story... it's a really sad image. And it doesn't even matter if this image represents the truth - it's the way the rest of the nerdy world sees the USA nowadays. So what is the vision of the US-nerds about all this? Is it really that bad? Why?
0x or or snor perron?!
This incident is part of RIAA's overall online strategy. Here is a quote from a WSJ article from back in July:
Full article at:http://detritus.net/contact/rumori/200211/0123. html
Yeah... sure... whatever...
there MUST be a software patent that the riaa is violating on their web site. Perhaps a GIF generated by unlicensed code? Perhaps an xor cursor? Perhaps an example on a one-click shopping button!
I'd check myself but the site (www.riaa.org|.com) seems to be down. Not surprising since netcraft is reporting it runs IIS on W2K and is restarted every 5 days or so.
On the news,
I headed to the largest technology market in the world, and bought up 4 external WD 250Gb Hard Drives. I'll be making it my personal mission to damage the RIAA as best I can. I'll be getting a T1 on wednesday; yeah it's costly, but lets see them mess with me, living in a country not respecting copyright. Think I can collect a Tb in a month??
So here's my question, are there any lawyers out there angry enough about this (maybe some that are part of the /. community) to go out of their way to offer their sevices, for little or no money, to students bullied by the RIAA? I mean, I know they have to make a living of it, but it seems that the RIAA is taking advantage of college students because they know they can get away with it. That's a situation that I think needs to change.
===== will post for karma
I used to swap music for the sake of listening to the music...now I'm gonna start doing it as a form of protest...I don't take kindly to bullies
The RIAA has probably paid Fred Durst of Limp Dick, I mean Bizkit, more to spit beer on one of their execs.
Also, you might want to tone down the "challenge" language if you really want them to take the bait. Of course, you can probably also recruit some fellow defendants from the small group of people already in the RIAA's crosshairs and make your legal defense group a bit broader. It does have the advantage of getting into the legal battles and getting some battlefield experience before becoming a target personally.
Good luck.
...just a simple search engine, not focusing on illegal music...
v ey s&op=results&pollID=7&mode=&order=&tho ld=
http://www.chewplastic.com/modules.php?name=Sur
How much illegal music do you have?
I don't have illegal music 14.80% (219)
under 1 GB 12.50% (185)
2-3 GB 13.24% (196)
4-9 GB 16.22% (240)
10-20 GB 14.32% (212)
21-30 GB 5.88% (87)
over 30 GB 22.97% (340)
On the news,
I went out and purchased 4 WD External 250Gb drives. I'll be making it my personal mission to see how badly I can rip-off the RIAA. Why do they keep going after poor students and harasing them when there's a bunch of other hard-core traders out there? It's an insane strategy. Make an example out of the traders that matter. Come and get me, dicks.
You give up the right to own or get access to a firearm and you'll lose whatever freedoms are left (I present history as my evidence). And don't give me that sarcastic bullshit "what's a gun gonna do against a tank" because the drones who run those tanks have to eat, sleep and shit with the rest of us ... that's where a person's right to own comes into play.
and sign with more ethical ones. Seems to be the only solution to this Chinese finger trap.
Remember:
1 If RIAA makes money, gives some artist pawn a deal to make kazaa (Napster) users feel bad about themselves. While not that effective, it causes #2.
2 If people boycott, RIAA blames losses on P2P, starts to sue.
3 RIAA sues developers of file search indexes
Watch out - they might sue you for having a site which goes against Intelectual Property. Hey, you might have a link to download Kazaa. After all, why shouldn't an artist's grandson's grandson be fat off of royalties for a copyright?
If someone were to sue you for $12000, you'ld be kicking and screaming, you RIAA troll.
...time to set up a pay pal a/c and submit to /. :)
By "music thievery", they mean the music industry (RIAA) stealing as much money as they can get their filthy hands on from the college students.
aqazaqa
I needed a laugh after that article!
Maybe the increase in traffic will help him to recover his $12k if people donate to his fund.
Though as another poster mentioned... I'd be torn between helping the kid and paying off the RIAA (which it would amount to, I guess in some form or fashion).
Mmmm......sacrelicious.
> The only thing I can do is stop buying music
Wrong. You can donate to the EFF. You can purchase music or otherwise support artists on CD Baby, an "online record store that sells CDs by independent musicians" (not distributors). There's pleny of things you can do to thwart the efforts of the RIAA mafia.
This is a sobering reminder of the corporate greed in this country, and that money is held in the highest esteem. Such pathetic actions to a poor college student will only result in an equal (or greater) and opposite reaction to the RIAA in the future (a la the "golden rule"). The RIAA's actions are only hurting people in that it take's away people's basic rights to innovate.
Argh! This is the last straw.... Finishing up my Bachelor's degree in less than a year.... Master's program, you can wait... Law School - here I come. We need people FIGHTING these indecencies!
-- If it ain't broke - overclock it more.
Help a brother out!
paypal a couple of bucks his way. Or at least DO NOT BUY ANY CDS! This is the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of.
There is no emoticon for what I am feeling!
THERE IS NO DATA. THERE IS O
smash.
I run: Windows, OS X, Linux, FreeBSD. Just because you have a hammer, doesn't mean everything is a nail.
I don't know what the circumstances were for him to hand the RIAA $12000, but personally I would have used the money to do something a little more constructive, like hire a lawyer (or find one that wants to make a name for himself) and let the lawsuit begin.
If Sharman Networks can get a judge to say that Their app is legal based on the legal uses it has, I cant see how he could lose considering that he has no control what was on the campus network it was searching.
All this does is open the floodgates to sue Search Engines. Whats Next? Microsoft Gets sued because the Search function in XP can search the entire Network for Files?
In Soviet Russia, Trojan exploits YOU!
fight the RIAA? what a novel concept! I have no idea why no one in the history of the earth has ever tried this.
obviously, as you say, it will be so easy since they have pussy lawyers.
Every day we don't fight them, the next day's fight will be that much harder.
GeekNights!
Late Night Radio for Geeks!
If more Americans would act like men and stick the hell up for themselves rather than effeminately hiding in a corner, we wouldn't be in a situation where people give up their life savings to settle a frivolous lawsuit they could have won. Then again, we also wouldn't be in a society run by weaklings who would prefer the sterile proceedings of a lawsuit to just stepping outside and settling their differences like real men.
(RIAA's Cary) Sherman said, "Nobody is expecting kids to pay that kind of money â" and they won't." He added, "That's just the legal stuff, that you put in papers."
I know there must be a ton of law school students, that probably have a lot better understanding of stuff like this, than lawyers that don't want to take cases like this. Is there no way that a bunch of them couldn't get together with, maybe a professor, or the support from a big firm or something, and maybe donate some lawyer services to the good of society, whilst learning at the same time? I mean, sure your law school's reputation is probably on the line, but if you're that confident in the type of students you churn out, that shouldn't be a problem.
If you go looking, you can find tons of good music from non-riaa inprisoned bands on file sharing apps. This is the main reason the riaa hates p2p; not becuase their music is on it but becuase it is competition and I think awesome competition. Infact, I host several local bands on my p2p app just so they can get their music out; they don't care about the money so much as they care about other people enjoying it and if someone decides they want the CD off of the website all the better. It's what's called "free media" and now that we have the technology to distribute it amongst ourselves, companies are scared.
But I do agree, attacking innocent people who haven't even done anything wrong in an attempt to fuck their lives over before they have even begun is absolute bullshit and I hope they get a backlashing that takes them rocketing to the poor bin.
Candy-Coated Knowledge
First off, this mortifies me. I don't think I'll ever purchase another bit/byte of comercial music media... OK, on to the question:
So this kid setteled and the RIAA agreed to obsolve him of any wrong doing. I'm assuming this means he can continue to operate his site as is without modification, since he got to pay them 12k to agree that he didn't do anything (ridiculous!!!). So, assuming he doesn't have to stop what he was doing, does the fact that they agreed that he did no wrong keep them from being able to sue him for the same thing again?
If you don't have something nice to sig, then don't sig anything at all.
My suggestion is to download the music, and then contribute directly to the artists, doing and end-run around the 'AAs.
Sure, technically, it's still stealing, there's no denying that, but all you'd really be doing is getting the money to the people who actually deserve it, and not the crooks who are stealing from them in the first place.
If I were an artist on one of these major labels (God forbid), I'd much rather have a fan tell me that he/she downloaded my music illegally and then give me a couple of bucks out of appreciation rather than buy a CD off the rack for $17.99, and I get the nickel or dime or whatever for creating the music, while the record company makes the lion's share.
In Soviet Russia, Chuck Norris will still kick your ass.
to DIE. Hack the hell out of their website, crash a few of their supporting artist sites, etc. Make the RIAA _feel_ the pain and let the malicious hackers just have a field day w/ their asses. Just bitching to media or sites like ./ isn't going to solve anything.
The RIAA needs to feel the pain... upfront and personal.
You all know exactly what was going on via his "service". And so did he. Theft, plain and simple.
The RIAA mouthpiece got it exactly right when he said:
"The people who run these Napster networks know full well what they are doing: Operating a sophisticated network designed to enable widespread music thievery."
Anyone who argues otherwise for this kid is just petty, in denial, or blinded by RIAA hatred.
Don't play dumb; it makes you look stupid.
Reading this story totally infuriates me. The RIAA just jumps on the thing they can find that could POSSIBLY be related to music in some form. Is GOOGLE next? It can be used in the same way. Meh - THE RIAA SUCKS.
-
aphex
I Steal Music!
This sounds familiar...not RIAA stuff, but how did the web start? Look at yahoo for instance, some kid at a college decided to make a directory of links to facilitate a community with a information exchange. Is this any different? Just because his "search engine" was efficient and worked well (users could get whatever they wanted) doesn't mean he did anything wrong. RIAA is definately wrong in this case. If they are right, then any search engine is in violation of the RIAA's ideals. Can google prove that it doesn't facilitate downloading of illegal materials? Doubtful.
my $0.02
Isn't that the way civil law works in the USA? The RIAA hasn't only sued this guy, they've sued numerous others as well... and won.
The weighting in this system is that the RIAA, i.e. the ones with the most money, win.
The only way that the RIAA can be forced to back down is if it turns bad for them in MAINSTREAM news channels. Continuing bad publicity would be the only thing that would frighten them off in this capitalistic world of ours where getting the customers money is the most important thing in the world, and losing sales due to bad publicity is the biggest nightmare that the RIAA labels have.
First, I would say that helping the kid is a better "good thing" than paying the RIAA is a "bad thing." To them, $12,000 (or whatever the lifesavings of an undergrad) is nothing save symbolic - to him, it's a ton. If we help him out, any symbolic victory of theirs is lost, he has no financial damage, so effectively all that's happened is that 120 people are out $100 and the RIAA is up 12 large.
The problem of course is that 1) this will encourage people in the future to settle if they think they'll get paid off, and 2) the RIAA will lose whatever shred of remorse they MIGHT have had about nuking some poor kid (laughable, I know), as they'll see it as a rightful, distributed tax.
So I think you're right - I think we need to get the EFF on board, help collect a war chest, and defend the next poor bastard they try this with. That way, there will be a clear, established precedent for the next time they try this crap after that.
The sad thing in this case is they have no leg to stand on. He never collected info about what was traded, and never got the opportunity to be helpful to the RIAA by blocking mp3's (which was one of the counts against Napster). So I have little doubt the RIAA would have lost given appropriate representation.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
(-:
The body of this message is what you _just_ read.
Talk about blatant intimidation...
T echTV/tech tv_RIAAvsteen030609.html
"You go to the site, you type in a search term, and it finds files on the network," Jordan said. Jordan compares his site to Google, the popular Internet search engine.
[Ed: "I built a tool to help people find stuff. I'm getting sued?"]
But the RIAA likens Jordan's site to Napster, the now defunct song-swap service that revolutionized the distribution of music.
"The people who run these Napster networks know full well what they are doing: Operating a sophisticated network designed to enable widespread music thievery," Cary Sherman, the president of the RIAA, said in a statement issued April 3.
"The lawsuits we've filed represent an appropriate step given the seriousness of the offense," Sherman added.
[Ed: "I don't care what it is, it's ruining my business damnit!"]
"I didn't tell people what to share. I never promoted piracy," Jordan said.
[Ed: "I built a tool to help people find stuff. I'm getting sued?"]
"Basically, Napster set out to create its own network specifically for music. What I did was ran a search engine on a campus network [where] the network already existed," Jordan said.
But Jordan did agree to pony up $12,000, his entire savings account, to the RIAA. Jordan and his father, Andy Jordan, felt the settlement was their best option.
[Ed: "They said they would leave me alone if I gave them everything I had."]
"They agreed to allow Jesse to deny their allegations. They agreed to dismiss the case and all allegations against him," Andy said. "Basically they agreed that he didn't do anything wrong, but [they're] taking his 12 grand."
[Ed: "Give us everything you have and we'll forget all about it." Taking cues from Tony Saprano?]
Jesse knew students were sharing files on his network: pictures, PowerPoint presentations, physics notes, anime, and music. But he refutes the RIAA's claim he "hijacked an academic network" and "installed an emporium for music trading."
[Ed: "He's a terrorist to boot!"]
Ruining the Music Business?
Andy believes that the RIAA's intimidating tactics will undoubtedly hurt the music industry by alienating music buyers. An avid music fan for more than 40 years, he shudders at the impact this will have on the industry's most fervent fans.
"I don't know how strongly the music companies â" the people who really run the music companies â" I don't know if they realize what the impact of this misguided attempt at intimidation is going to be," Andy said.
While Andy questions the motives and actions of the RIAA, he basks in pride at his son's steadfast resolve.
[Ed: Exactly what motives do you need to question? Duh.]
"He has stood up to the schoolyard bullies that are pulling this and he's said, 'You are not going to make me say something that's not true,'" Andy said.
ChewPlastic.com is asking for donations to help recover the $12,000 settlement. As of June 6, the site has collected more than $1,700.
Original article:
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/scitech/
"Last one in is a rotten goblin!" - Kepp
this is a misconception. while it may be true that they receive most of their money upfront, that discounts the reason they're getting the money: previous record sales. they will not receive a good contract for their forthcoming titles if they didn't sell many albums the last time.
Unfortunately, going to concerts often involves supporting TicketBastard and ClearChannel, both of whom are close in evilness to the RIAA.
GCHQ Quantum Insert installed. If only our tongues were made of glass, how much more careful we would be when we speak
not for RIAA but for the kid. He shouldn't have a problem getting a job with a company like google now.
"...today consumers have been conditioned to think of beer when they see a bullfrog..."
Hopefully hist life savings was $50.00
So relax guys and chill. Jeez.
http://saveie6.com/
...to do everything in our power to piss these assholes off and maybe someday put them out of business. Actions like this taken by the RIAA are what make people like me recommend KaZaA/Grokster/Insert-your-favorite-P2P to their friends and relatives. Good thing my Mom just got a new CD-Burner, because she's about to get a crash course on not paying for (Big Corporate) music ever again. Go Fuck Yourselves RIAA.
What is wrong with this country? Isn't there a lawyer out there somewhere with enough ethics to say this is extortion and defend this poor kid? Are there any lawyers on /. that can do that??? Someone stop the madness!
The Anti-Blog
The recording industry has a long history of ripping young aspiring artists off, so it's easy chicken to do the same to students and consumers. ;)
The RIAA is just a means to put a good face on a government approved racket. A day of recongning is approaching when this crack-headed industry will be out of work, out of cocain and out of fsk. We just need an application to aid musicians to sell directly to the public. We don't need 'Death Records' and similar idiots to kick butt. It's time to burn the big Lama's ass
While Andy questions the motives and actions of the RIAA, he basks in pride at his son's steadfast resolve.
"He has stood up to the schoolyard bullies that are pulling this and he's said, 'You are not going to make me say something that's not true,'" Andy said.
Sorry, dad, he didn't stand up to the schoolyard bully. Instead, he said "I'll give you all my money if you don't hit me", and it worked. This is the wrong approach. I know it's intimidating for a 19-year-old college student to be threatened by a powerful industry, but he gave in and gave them all his money. That will simply encourage the bully further, it will not help the problem.
ChewPlastic.com is asking for donations to help recover the $12,000 settlement. As of June 6, the site has collected more than $1,700.
Yeah, great. Why don't I just make that check out to the RIAA? Seriously. Tell us ahead of time next if this happens again and we'll get together a legal defense fund for him. That way the money goes to an attorney, not the RIAA.
I'm sorry to be such a jerk, but IMNSHO a settlement of this type is usually seen as a de facto confession of guilt. I understand why someone would want to back down when threatened by the RIAA, but please don't call him "brave" for doing it.
Karma to burn, damn the torpedos...
Michael
Do you have ESP?
Perhaps this would set a precedent where you could pay $12,000 to never be sued by the RIAA again. For some of us, it would be totally worth it.
IANAL, but if you are currently working on a P2P app, set up a shell corp with no major assets. Buy your computer and your bandwidth through the corp. When the RIAA comes knocking, let'em sue the corp, not you.
If this kid were self-incorporated, the RIAA wouldn't have been able to touch his personal bank account, at least not without buying a judge.
Unfortunately, he got "assent" mixed up with "ascent" more than once, so you can drop him off the foes list for now.
for his legal fees. Add to that, undue distress and defamation of character.
"The best laid plans of mice and men gang oft agley..." - ROBERT BURNS
Yes, but until then, loads of people get screwed. Stand up people (even if it's just writing your congress man a letter).
I just couldn't. I think I'd completely flip out, barricade myself in my dorm/apartment before I settled, and call/email every news outlet in the world. Let people see the cops called in to go after a student whose only crime was to write a search engine.
--- Ban humanity.
You can look up my voting record (whether I voted or not, not the candidate) at the Cleveland County Voter Registration Board. I'm a registered Democrat in a state of Republicans. I just laugh when these stupid ass people of oklahoma bitch about having to lay off half our teachers, cut back on social programs, and raise local taxes to pay for basic services. I just tell them "you get what you vote for, did you think the republican party gives a shit about poor ass oklahoma?". I wish everyone was required to do 3 things in life, 1. Wait tables, 2. Get a degree in economics before being able to vote, and 3. work for organizations that do social programs for free.
When the federal government takes in less money, Oklahoma suffers more. Most people don't realize we are a subsidized state (as are most of the small populated mid-western/western states).
By the way, any other RPI folks hear about the nuclear fallout on Troy in the 1950s? It's an explanation for the people who lived on my street, for sure.
Toon toon! Black and white army!
and the whole thing is rediculus anyways since searching
Wow. I've never seen it spelled that way, even HERE. For some reason, absolutely NO ONE can spell 'ridiculous' on Slashdot, and I'm not sure why. It's spelled RIDICULOUS. There is NO 'E' in the word, people!
I don't think you need to worry about your Karma. Your sentiments reflect a large majority of posters here and I would find it amusing at most if anyone troll-modded that.
"Last one in is a rotten goblin!" - Kepp
-Esme
RIAA is digging their own grave. This is nothing but the final struggle of an already dying (and ugly) creature. I say it's about time we gave it the final kick in the balls to finish it off. They have to be pretty god damned desperate if they're sueing students to pay their bills. Of course, ludicrous lawsuits like these can only happen in the land of the free huh. Maybe they'll hold car vendors responsible for robberies and car accidents now ..
that taking a college student to court is not getting them anywhere? The kids that were using this search engine can still get the music. This lawsuit just makes me less inclined to give them my hard earned money. With digital media being infinatly reproducible and easily distributable, a middle man (RIAA) is unneeded overhead. Sooner or later they will acknowledge that a change in their business model is the only option. One possibility would be to act as venture capitalists. The RIAA would finance bands, taking a percentage of concert revenue, merchandise sales, and endorsements. This way they are fitting into a business model rather than fighting to fill a role that is no longer needed.
I mean, some people went rampage for less than that. I hope the RIAA & co have good security,because pushing people on the verge of a "cracking down", in a country where gun are easy to come by, might push someday somebody into commiting massacre (and thus killing the innocent guy working there). And No I am not joking. Push people hard enough against a wall and they sometimes "explode".
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
hmmm,
I remember when this story broke that RIAA
found his computer by checking anon ftp sites
for mp3 files. Apparently his computer was not
only hosting an search engine it was also
hosting mp3 files. So He may be innocent for
an search engine but the warez mp3 files will
cost him big bucks.
Der Shatten
The RIAA's targets for all it's legal actions represent a change from normal litigation targets. All the major litigation has been against Students, Universities and other people who can ill afford the defence.
Normally anti-piracy suits would target those from whom the most money could be extracted such as corporate networks, etc, but now they appear to be trying to scare people into submission. It might even be probable to say that they are making significant losses in their legal preceedings given the high costs.
Ultimately, the fear will peobably work on many people tho.
Can't believe that people are so insipid to go and grab $12K from a college student, when they admit he didn't create the site to be a music-swapping service...sad. Just fucking sad. What the hell has corporate America come to? If I were the RIAA, I definitely would not want to have that $12K right now. It's going to end up being bad press...
"......He erected a card table on the sidewalk outside the disco playing RAP with a big sign that said 'free Handguns,' where people could pick up a free handgun for whatever purpose they might have. Mind you, this is not a stand expressly set up for people to get handguns to carry into the disco, this is just a free handgun table....."
I mean, comeon folks...
+FUNNY!!!! HAHAHA!
"Hell of a birthmark, Hal."
Besides, public defenders invariably suck.
Bullshit. PDs spend more time in criminal court than their private counterparts and they have far more experience dealing with the motions and tactics of a criminal case.
Granted, individual PDs may suck, but you'll find a hell of lot more true believers in the PD's office than you will in private practice.
Nothing to see here. Move along.
This means that some guy at the RIAA is sitting there at the moment actually feeling good about the fact he just stole $12,000.
Office politics in that office must be scary.
Your neighbour, the Albany Law School of Union University has a Law and Technology Center. While you probably won't get pro-bono help directly from them I believe their interest in that area of the law combined with contacts in the legal community could be very usefull. The nature of the claims the RIAA made against this student are such that I think the interest of the faculty would have been piqued and a referral to an appropiate attorney or legal defense fund could have been made.
Itâ(TM)s the old âGoldenâ(TM) rule. He that has the GOLD, makes up all the rules!!
RIAA could push this thing in millions very quickly. Showing that if they donâ(TM)t have a leg to stand on in REAL court, they can just harass you with legal fees until you just go away. The best LAW money can buy!!!
I can't figure out why this is hitting ABC and Slashdot now. It was on, I believe, TechTV over a week ago. Not that I expect slashdot to be fast to pickup these things, but ABC? They should know better.
Simple. Donate $x to the kid. Then go steal $x worth of music from kazaa, at ~$1 a song. You just paid the riaa (indirectly) for that music. With all the sueing these riaa asshats are doing, this should be the recourse of all its victims.
couldn't the student have claimed that he was protected under section 512 of the dmca? seems to me (admitidely after only a very quick glance) that he qualifies for the safe harbour provision.
... how embarressing! :o)
ooh, this is my first ever post. been reading for ages and just never said anything
"I see in the near future a crisis approaching that unnerves me and causes me to tremble for the safety of my country. ... corporations have been enthroned and an era of corruption in high places will follow, and the money power of the country will endeavor to prolong its reign by working upon the prejudices of the people until all wealth is aggregated in a few hands and the Republic is destroyed."
-- Abraham Lincoln, Nov. 21, 1864
All writing a letter to your Congressman does is kill more trees. The only paper your Congressman is interested in is the kind that says "Federal Reserve Note" on it.
The only way to shape a Congressman's opinion is via bribery or bullets.
the RIAA doesn't deserve to be paid money, legally entitled or otherwise.
Roger Ames, the chief executive of Warner Music Group, said any plan that handed control of the industry's licensing to the government would simply shrink its revenues and prevent it from financing artist careers. As for the taxation idea: "It sounds like communism," Mr. Ames added.
You mean to finance the advertising, air-time, limousine, leer-jet, clothing, pirotechniques, not to mention the manager's gucci wallet and filling it, for the 12 boyband-artists among 10,000 that you starve normally?
And exactly how does this benefit me listening to the tunes I wanted to hear, the bands that deserve recognition and pay, or society in general growing up listening to britney spears?
"Last one in is a rotten goblin!" - Kepp
If everyone sends him a little bit, we could help get his life back on track and show the RIAA they can't destroy him that easily.
[figz@figz figz]$ kill -9 `ps -ef | awk '$1=="figz" { print $2 }'`
I recently saw the movie American Psycho, and I pictured the RIAA as Paul Allen (the dude that is being "treated" with an axe). Those RIAA bastards deserve this kind of treatment. Leave the kids alone, you sons of bitches!
I have a feeling that his school has an "anti-swapping" policy. I'm not sure if cataloging a crime is a crime itself, but it would send mixed messages if they tried to protect him.
Spell cheek you've failed me four the last thyme!
if this happened in the uk they would have just done him a favour, i dont know about the us, but in the uk a story like this would be worth more than $12k to the media. i hope somebody has paid for his story especially since it is bad press for the riaa.
Who needs the RIAA music? Get your music here
You may suprise yourself and find a lot of music you like. Pay the actual artists for their music and not the music mafia (RIAA)
Consider this:
What happens if everyone stood their ground against the RIAA/MPAA in these lawsuits. From the stories on Slashdot, they end up taking your life savings anyways, so why not cause some pain to the bastards.
Represent yourself or hire a cheap lawyer. Drag the litigation out for as long as possible. For your time (and maybe the cost of a cheap lawyer), you end up making the RIAA/MPAA pay for their expensive lawyers.
If you win, fine. If not, well, your lawyer is paid, and you can declare bankrupcy. Was going to happen anyways.
Lets not make it profitable for them to sue people.
...than stop buying records! Ok, it's quite a hard thing to do, I'm a music lover myself but while we're only complaining, they're still stuffing their pockets. We need to atack where really hurts. Sure, they will blame the P2P programs but hey, they are already doing it anyway...
Faith can move mountains. I prefer dynamite.
if he gets his money back then he is no worse off financially, and now he knows that they suck big fat major ass. Now he has a purpose in life, to screw them in the a-hole. You can't put a price on that. Plus, you can bet that the RIAA didn't come out ahead financially. They were probably spending $12,000/hour on all the lawyers to take down this one kid. But at least they got lots of positive press out of it. Nothing says "I love the community" more than stomping on the financial future of our nation's youth. I propose a national "hug the RIAA day" to show our appreciation to these fine people.
This guy should have countersued- I would happily donate 100 bucks to the person who doesn't take the 'easy' way out and goes toe to toe with the RIAA.
Contact the EFF, find a lawyer who is willing to take the case.
There is no reason why they should not be on the ropes for this. Put your life savings into fighting the battle - make the issue known, ask for help. You'll get it.
K
So whose going to take on America?
.interesting 21st Century.
I believe that would be China, sometime within the next 25-50 years.
It promises to be an. .
The kid deserves it.
"We're sorry, but the website you're trying to reach has been disconnected."
Jesse knew students were sharing files on his network: pictures, PowerPoint presentations, physics notes, anime, and music. But he refutes the RIAA's claim he "hijacked an academic network" and "installed an emporium for music trading."
Notice in the paragraph previous they point out it was the college campus network he was using to host his search engine. Search engines don't balkanize networks; search engines don't require special clients. This wasn't "his" network anymore than the internet is "Google's network" - but this is how the mouse sells the story to the sheep...
Lies, Damned Lies & Statistics...
A PD may spend more time in court than their more effective private counterpart. However, this doesn't gaurantee that the PD is actually spending any more time per client.
I'd rather have a DA's frat buddy on retainer than someone that can only bring idealism to the table.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
One interesting thing about TicketMaster though: they sponsor open source development. Specifically, they have paid to further the development of mod_perl, which Slashdot runs on.
The solution is simple. Stop buying music. Will your life be so much worse without it? I'll wager your life will be BETTER without it. Can't be without music? I'm sure there are plenty of independent artists looking to sell you music directly. Stop empowering the RIAA.
As everyone knows, the number of Kazaa users are in the millions. As Verizon was recently forced to handover the identies of certain users that the RIAA found were sharing MP3s, I suspect that we will start seeing the RIAA move beyond college students in their legal attack.
So, exactly how do you sue millions of people, or even hundreds of thousands for that matter? You don't. Upon obtaining the identies of users from their ISPs, the RIAA will start mass mailings which depend a payment of say $1000 or else they will take the individual to court.
The RIAA knows they don't have to sue every Kazaa user to kill the P2P system. What they probably don't know is that once they initiate a panic attack against the general public (which they are already doing, by strongly biased newspaper articles warning parents of the legal liabilities they face in letting their kids use Kazaa.) What the RIAA probably doesn't know is that initiating a legal/extortion war (so far its just been battles) will force P2P developers to initiate freenet-style security, thus making tracking down individual's identities a little harder.
Of course this isn't going to be of any help to those people who have already been mass-indexed by the RIAA and outsourced private companies scanning the P2P networks. Just download a copy of PeerGuardian, and run it in the background for a day or two. Try hanging out on EFnet for a while. They are scanning everyone, every single day.
Nevermind all those insignificant details about due process, and 'innocent until proven guilty' crap. It all comes down to one simple, all-encompassing rule that will apply to every case you'll ever read about.
Whoever has the most money wins...period.
This makes me sick! - RIAA needs to be stopped.
[alk]
I wonder how the RIAA would react if the music industry faced a boycott? I could go for a while without buying new music. What about anyone else?
Anthony Papillion
Advanced Data Concepts, Inc.
"Quality Custom Software and IT Services"
A Nevada corporation for every website.
When I was in high school, our consumer education teacher was adamant that we should all ensure an album had at least 3 songs we loved before we forked over the cash. Otherwise, buying singles was cheaper. If an artist only had 2 good songs on the radio (or the music booth), the idea was that the rest of the album was a wash.
GRRR
If he really wants to make a statement, he should make the payment in the smallest units of currency available, such as 5 cent coins (or 1cent coins if they're still valid in the US). If two parties have signed an agreement, they can not refuse legal physical currency as payment.
So if the RIAA gets any big ideas about obtaining large sums of money out of people for marketing purposes, they'll have to deal with several tons of rather tiny metallic objects.
After they've been through the experience of having trucks pull up to their offices with tens of thousands of dollars of small-change coins in buckets laden in the back, they may change their tactics somewhat. It'd drive them mad.
...something about tightened grips and slipping through fingers...
afterall, Microsoft has a search functoin that I can use to look for MP3 on the network ?? I wonder how successfull that lawsuit would be. My guess is that the RIAA would get their asses handed to them on a plate.
Alltheweb, a growing search engine, has an audio search. I know that it has indexed copywrited music. Hundreds if not thousands of people find music files with it. Why hasn't the RIAA gone after them?
The big guys are bullying the little guys.
The RIAA just shot themselves in the foot with a rocket launcher by doing this. Before, when they were going after napster, they could dupe people into believing they were the victims. But now that they've taken a college students life savings for running a site that could turn up pirated music in it's searches they look like the greedy bastards they are.
read my blog
musings on politics and technol
Why hasn't someone posted the names addresses and vitals for the entire RIAA/MPAA legal team?
(1) Come on people, don't you know there must be more here than meets the eye? Do you really believe it was a simple as an app to search a network? I mean, if that's all it truly was, than Microsoft should be next on the RIAA's hit list since they've included a search feature in Windows since what, 98? And it can work over network shares same as local drives.
(2) I have a wife, two kids and a house, so I likely would have settled faster than this kid did. I have far too much to lose in my estimation, and this overrides my principals quite frankly, because the principal of being there for my family is more important to me than fighting a battle like this. However, if I was in *HIS* shoes, I would have fought this to the bitter end (assuming things really were as this article makes them appear). He had comparatively far less to lose, and I would have gambled it in his place. Forget lawyer costs. I want my day in court, and if that means I have to defend myself, so be it. I am 100% sure I could get a ton of publicity if nothing else, which the RIAA would hate I can assure them, and I'm close to 100% sure I could have gotten some lawyer to take the case for nothing anyway. There's always some lawyer out there willing to try just to make a name for himself. I'm guessing even the worst lawyer would be better than me! But in the end, getting in court, getting everything in the public record and having my say would be worth the risk to me. I mean, in the end if they get a $100,000 settlment against me, they're either going to toss me in jail or take the $50 a week I'm going to be able to afford. I'd risk it. This all assumes I really did nothing wrong, but again, I don't think that's the case.
I mean, let's face it... the RIAA are a bunch of Nazi-like terrorists, to put it bluntly. They need to be stopped, and stopped soon.
But I don't think they are stupid enough to outright harass someone that really has done nothing wrong. There is TONS of precedence for an application like this, and while I suppose it's possible they found the weakest target they could to, what, get rid of all search engines?, and went after him to start down that path, I really don't think so.
What I firmly believe is there is more here than we know, the kid was doing something else that wasn't as innocuous as searching a network for files.
And if that really *IS* all he did, then he's an asshole for caving in so easily, plain and simple. I realize there would have been tremendous risk for him, and I also realize it's easy to say when your not in that position, but at some point you have to have the strength of your convictions above all else and fight for them when you really have to. He didn't do that, and his father is patting him on the back for it too. At least I can see where he gets it from.
If a pion (n-) collides with a proton in the woods & noone is there to hear it, does lamdba decay into the source pa
Please see these informative PDFs to see how to make the RIAA lose $12,000 and more! You may need to download the listed files several hundred thousand times, as they are updated frequently.
Learn to use the language properly or don't use it at all.
there
At or in that place: sit over there.
they're
Contraction of they are.
Contractions are where we combine two words together with a ' mark. examples: don't won't can't they're isn't. The ' is also used to imply posession:
Sue's John's Sams'
their
Used as a modifier before a noun: their accomplishments; their home town
do we have to be reminded just how horrid the RIAA is to finally ditch "mainstream" music completely?
I see a lot of anger and hatred for this group, and yet many of the people here, I am sure, will still go out and buy some CD released on Sony (or one of its subs).
If you want to TRULY hurt the RIAA, and send a message that its behavior will not be accepted, simply do not buy major label releases. Hurt them buy spending your music money on the hundreds (thousands?) of hard working independant labels who simply publish music to make a few bucks (some make much more) and mostly (at least the best ones) to get music out there. Also, start supporting bands and artists directly, ignore those on the majors and throw your support behind those out there busting their ass to play to 35 people hauling their gear in beat-up van simply for their passion of practicing their craft.
Yeah, maybe I am a bit emotional and overly dramatic, but the point is, there are better ways to send messages to the RIAA, and wishing death and debating whether or not this is a free speech issue (which this isn't) is utterly useless, IMNSHO.
sad robot making broken music
First, IANAL. But I do know that there are trial lawyers who will take on, say, Big Tobacco, on a contingent fee, hoping for a big jackpot.
So if the students of RPI were to get together and claim that each of them had been denied a service by the barratry of the RIAA, and it was worth maybe 5K$ to them. 5K$ per student times the student population is what you sue for.
If there are a few more instances this blatent, then invoke the RICO statute and go for triple damages.
Anybody know a trial lawyer with time on his hands?
That there is indeed settled or pending litigation against this guy. Anyone got Westlaw access? If not, this would be the scam of the century! LOL
I will never buy a major label CD again. I don't care how deserving you are of money for your art - if you let yourself be represented by those fuckers, I'm going to treat you with the respect you deserve.
You can win a lawsuit and still lose big time.
I was sued by a small corporation that I used to work for. After two years and $135,000 I won. Yeah, I won but I'm still out more than the value of my house. And that was a small (~10 people) firm without staff attorney's like the RIAA.
Every time the RIAA does this they lose hundreds of customers and sales. I hope they keep it up cause at the rate their going they'll be gone in a few years and we'll all sit back and laugh over a beer at their stupidity. They'll be taught in business classes as an example of how not to treat your customers and how not to do business. Its only a matter of time.
If by settling you are giving up your "life savings", what's the downside to fighting this? Even if he represented himself in court and got a judgement against him for $10 billion, he can just declare bankruptcy and walk away. Guess I'm not seeing what is to be gained by agreeing amicably to be 100% financially ruined.
cabodog77
"It's such a fine line between clever and stupid." -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Yea right. Call me a troll, but this guy knew what he was doing was illegal. Don't give me that "it was just a search engine!" argument. I'm sure before the legal stuff began to fly there was lots of sniggering and winking along with, "Oh gosh we didn't know people were using it to find files they didn't have rights to! (wink wink nudge nudge)."
Oh, and the irony that now P2P file sharing proponents are now are using the same defense used by the NRA and gun salesmen. Imagine some guy with a gun shop selling semi-automatics getting sued for selling guns to criminals. "Hey!" he says, "I just sell them. I can't make people not use them for crimes. Is it a crime to sell them?"
Am I supporting the RIAA? Nope. Just saying this guy was dancing around in front of the bull in red pants. Did the RIAA overreact? Probably. Do smart people dance in front of bulls while wearing red pants? No.
I see this as a 2-fold effect:
(1) You deny them money to lobby and litigate, and...
(2) You destroy the hope of artists who want to make tons and tons of cash (maybe) off being signed to a music company who is aligned with the RIAA.
I think the artists are just as complicit in this as the RIAA - they create the demand for a corp. like the RIAA to exist, and they're on the front lines helping us sign our innocence away to corps. that treat us as guilty first. Yes, I feel sorry that some bands will be hurt by this action, but making a transition to a new model of music distribution and moneymaking is gonna hurt somewhere, and I believe it's going to have to hurt the artists first since any other solution seems to be a pipe-dream and blocked by greed and lobbying/litigation.
Yes, lots of people keep buying CDs. Everyone here who hates the RIAA and wants to see its end will have to do their best to steal CDs and music for all their friends and family. Be the first one to say "Hey, never mind buying the CD, I'll download you a copy and make you the CD for free."
Hell, we're being treated like criminals already. Might as well start acting like it and REALLY show them who we are.
i'm amazed that i survived - an airbag saved my life.
Music industry steals from you!
Hey, wait a second...
Say the RIAA sends me a C&D letter for forgetting to put a robots.txt file in my web-accessible directory of MP3s and letting Google index them. The first call I'm going to make is to the Electronic Frontier Foundation to have them recommend a good lawyer. If you're going to find a pro-bono attorney, that's going to be the best place to at least get some direction.
--
Hmm, I think it's time to use my few drdos bots again. ;)
RIAA should ph34r my l337 d0zzing 5killz!
BTW, RIAA changed ISP 4 days ago, once again.
This isn't about the search engine, and it never was.
It's about the fact that I (and you) can be 99% CERTAIN that the individual infringed copyrights by downloading MP3's for himself. He's a programmer after all, so he's fluent enough that he's probably done it.
Now, I'm not a legal expert. But the RIAA can use this whole search engine ruse to get subpoena's, tear about his computer, and in the process discover that yes indeed, he has MP3's.
At that point, the guy's screwed.
Any legal authority care to tell me if I'm wrong? Does a subpoena limit you to only look for information regarding the search engine?
A simple search for *.mp3 on his computer might be considered "in plain view", right?
Even though they come over as somewhat sympathetic
to his plight in the article, they use the phrase:
Jesse knew students were sharing files on his
network: pictures, PowerPoint presentations,
physics notes, anime, and music.
Does that make the entire internet "Google's
network"? I don't think so.
In the general case, having a secret account is useful in financial aid situations. Where I went to school they asked you how much money you had and then said, "Give us 1/3rd of that and then we'll REDUCE your aid by that amount." They did that all four years. Not to mention that they basically confiscated my outside scholarships. Why even bother applying for scholarships if they aren't going to help? Since I left there has been some reform but not enough. I felt like I was being punished for my honesty. I was aware of several situations in which students lied through their teeth about how much money they had and got tons of financial aid because of it. Life isn't fair. There is now way you should be driving around campus in a new Audi while on massive amounts of financial aid.
Since leaving college I have had no need for a swiss bank account, but I could have used one at the time. The funny thing is that one of my friends is from Switzerland, and had a habit of pointing out that "of course" he had a swiss bank account.
Lasers Controlled Games!
why not give it to your own Lawyers! ;)
Fight RIAA on grounds of barattry and have the lawyers fees be the one time 12 grand and whatever else they can get from the Judge (the Judge can award attorneys fees for frivolous cases at their own discretion. )
IANAL, but my wife is. That make my legal advice WORTHLESS. However that may explain why I advocate giving 12 grand to the lawyers (read: my wife).
In the future, I would want to not be isolated from my friends in the Space Station.
It doesn't sound like there's much of a difference. Only the scope of the lawsuit.
rejected (19) accepted (0)
Is there a psychological term related to getting your stories rejected on slashdot?
So i had an idea, think of it as invensting in our futures.
Anyone out there happen to have about 2+ million dollars sitting doing nothing?
Wanna not spend a dime of that, and cause lots of grief for the **AA's?
So heres what you do.. Invest that huge chunk of cash in a bank, even a savings account will give enough interest on that to basically pay someone every month a 22k/year salary.
Now find a lawyer fresh out of school whos pissed at the **AA's as much as we are.
Tell said lawyer "I will pay you a salary of 22k/year if you make your full time job to be finding reasons to press charges aginst the RIAA/MPAA."
The goal is mainly to harass, and leech resources from the **AA legal department wasting time with this. If the public is the one starting the charges, there are very good chances of winning and both leeching money back out of the **AA's as well as getting laws made/removed/fixed/changed.
If enough people would do this.. Just 10 in the country.. It would be comparible to a decent sized companys legal firm, which are exactly who the **AA's are trying to avoid.
Or if all 10 of these people would pool their interest, they possibly COULD pay for a legal firm, so the lawyers can work together much the same way as a companys legal board would.
You wont lose any of your capital. The charges can be 'Public vs RIAA' if you dont want your name involved. Some fresh new lawyers are getting a pretty sweet deal, granted not as sweet as im sure it could be, but it would also give that warm fuzzy feeling i cant imagine lawyers get all too often anymore (Sorry, cheap jab)
Once we put the public voice on the offence, the **AA's will have a much harder time with it while being on the defensive.
If only I had the contacts to pull this off...
Actually, when they first came out, individual CDs were up well over $50 each. Compared to that (early 80s, BTW), $15 is cheap.
Having said that, I think we all know what the real cost of a CD is these days, so I won't go into that particular rant this time.
They can only charge what the people are willing to pay. Organize a national (or better yet, international) "Buy No CDs" day (or week), and see if you can make a difference.
Considering tha tmost modern oSes including Windows, MacOS and MacOSx, Linux, UNix, and other variants have the capability built in to search for any fileon the network doe sthi make every computer user a felon for operating a computer that can be used as a Music File search engine?
Don't Tread on OpenSource
It makes you wonder if one could "stage" something similar to this so that the RIAA purposefully sued you. See if you could get Google (they have A TON to gain/lose from such cases), EFF, and the ACLU on your side before you put up such a site, and then just wait. Don't make it common knowledge that you have these 3 larger heavyweights behind you though. Obviously the kid didn't do anything, and just setup a similiar/duplicate site. That way, when the RIAA comes knocking, you can knock em right onto their ass with the money that those big 3 could help you with. Hell, maybe even yahoo would back you too. who knows. I'd prolly even be willing to do it.
None. They only care(d) about imposing their will.
Ask the Germans how long the Nazis lasted and how well The country fared under them.
The fact is that the record buying public is only a small source of money for the RIAA. They actually earn more money from elevators and building lobbies. Their second largest source of revenue is commercial jingles.
Anywhere where they don't have to pay the artist a dime (check the books, they don't have to and they damn well don't...)
Wanna KILL the RIAA?
Go to a show. Support the artist directly by showing up, buying a ticket right there and give the money to the band directly by putting it in a bucket on the stage.
If you're a band, refuse to sign a contract where YOU don't receive 75% of the GROSS.
The RIAA is screwing YOU the listener and the artists.
MSBPodcast.com The opinions expressed here are my own. If you don't like 'em... Think up your own stuff.
Reason, well there is no source of talent there.
riaa.org
Of course if crackers would stop cracking the site long enough for us to Slashdot it, that is. Sheesh.riaa.com
Disclaimer for you pinko riaa lawyers: this is a cynical joke. In no way do I recommend using the Slashdot effect on purpose. We only use that for sites we care about. :)
I disagree. The answer isn't one or the other -- the answer is NEITHER. Don't support the 'AAs, OR the artists. They're in this together; Pimps and whores. Drug makers and drug dealers. You're the addicted customer they can count on to come back time and time again to lay down your money for a temporary distraction.
Don't you see? By supporting one, you support both. The only way to fix this situation is to support artists who completely refuse to associate with the major labels or just attempt to live without all the stupid noise. Before recording technology existed, people lived their lives just fine without being subjected to never-ending soundtracks.
Or are you afraid to admit that you're addicted to their silly noise?
One last parting thought. As recently as 30 years ago, music was created by adults for adults; the "bandstand" programs were popular, middle-age adults routinely listened to music in social settings (danced to it, even!). But these consumers are a picky bunch -- they demand high quality which is difficult and expensive to produce, so the music industry has given up on adults as a lost-cause and today they're selling music by kids, for kids because children are easier to control, tempt, and addict. Think about it.
Shouldn't they have sent him a "cease and desist" letter first as a warning before lawyering him?
Oh, wait, that would have been the reasonable thing to do...
-Stephen
...some pocket lint a pack of nekkowafers and his empty Miller King can colloection? -- -- Yeah this was a troll so sue me too!!!
I went to battle MC Escher but drew a blank
Does that mean google has to go too? After all you can always use that to search for mp3's
It seems to me that anything that trawls for information is now illegal in the RIAAs eyes. I suppose the only way that this will end is if they try to sue someone who can afford to fight in them courts and make it so tht future such actions can't occur. Looks like the RIAA is speciffically targeting people who they know wont be able to afford to fight them in court but who can give them a few grand. Thus preserving their right to threaten college students who cave in and settle out of court.
I live in Australia, and I have to say, despite having some loose privacy laws (apparently Australia has the highest level of phone taps by 'authorities' per capita) and the odd debate over such shit as national identity cards (our television media doesn't bring privacy issues to the public's awareness, but the odd page X - where X > 20 - article gets linked on /.), but this makes me want to puke.
Good settlement - the guy is intelligent.
At least he got out of it with his life intact. Money can be replaced.
Remember: Never fight a company with more assets than you. Fairness has no place in this game. The party who has the most money will win. It is called legal maneuvering and is as the word says: legal. If legal and fair meant the same there would only have been one word.
The days have come, where more and more company officials are faced with the problem: What has the higher priority: The law or the board minutes?
I don't belive it is a fair outcome, but I belive that he made the correct choice. After all he still has a life.
It's too bad that he settled. I don't know if he knew he had help out there. Certainly FSF, ACLU and others may have stepped in for him. One unlikely ally might have been Google. Google sells search engine boxes that many companies and universities deploy in their intranets to help employees find files. If the RIAA can sue this student, then Google would be next on their list. It would be in their best interest to help the student. The RIAA may have backed off because they would have realized that they again sued someone without checking the facts.
Well, there's spam egg sausage and spam, that's not got much spam in it.
...fire up your favorite file-sharing program, grab the songs you like, and send $10 per album directly to the band in a check.
...and that's the way the cookie crumbles.
Wouldn't it be cheaper to offer an educational discount on music CD's, thus encourage more CD purchases?
Admittedly the US legal system doesn't make it easy to fight an action like this even if you're innocent, but I don't think this kid has done the rest of us any favours by settling out of court. In fact the FUD generating by doing this has only made it easier for the RIAA to imtimidate others into submission.
So I won't be contributing. I'd be more likely to contribute the legal defense fund of someone with the balls to stand up to this criminal organzation.
Bookmark this address and be sure to click it every hour or so for a deliberate /. effect. We'll teach them about the Internet!
www.riaa.org
Rock!
Well, first of all this is a dupe. Second, the original story made it clear that the RIAA was suing over copyrighted material that the student was in possession of. I think this guy is fishing for more cash.
"Once you pay the danegeld, you never get rid of the Dane." -- British proverb, ca. 800 A.D.
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
This is a clear cut case of EXTORTION!
âoeGive us $12K or we'll sue!â
Jesse admitted no wrong-doing and they still took his money in exchange for not suing. That is extortion, exactly like having the Mafia knock on your door and offer you âoeprotectionâ for a sum of money in exchange for not taking over your business/killing you. He (or someone involved) needs to bring this to the attention of the FBI â" assuming that they are less corrupt than the RIAA.
(Note: FBI guys, could you please inform me if you are or are not corrupt, and whether you will take this case or not? Thanks)
Google is also a search engine, and you CAN use it to find MP3 music files. (Try it!). So how is Google different from this 19 year old kid? (They have money for lawyers?).
My thought exactly. How is this different than the university buying a google appliance and setting it up? (other than if a student does it, it's free and he learns something) The university of florida, NYU, Seattle U., and U. of Michigan have these.
HIV Crosses Species Barrier... into Muppets
one sides suggests something
the other says "ok"
if not the grind continues until you win/lose in court or you can't afford to send any more letters
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
They shoulda had a legal disclaimer like other sites that index files. Namely: "If you enter this site and are in violation of any of the listed rules then you are violating code 431.322.12 of the Internet Privacy Act signed by Bill Clinton in 1995 and that means that you CANNOT threaten our ISP(s) or any person(s) or company(ies) storing the files, and cannot prosecute any person(s) affiliated with this page which includes family, friends or individuals who run or enter this web site."
"...tuition and beer"
Good God, man, get your priorities straight! Now repeat after me: "Beer and tuition"
If you don't have a paypal account, sign up. You get a free 5 dollar credit. Donate that and nothing comes out of your pocket!
How does one go about boycotting the RIAA? Is there a way to determine which artists are associated with the RIAA and then boycott them? I, for one, would be more than willing to do so.
This is sick. If someone dreams up an instant karma bitchslap for these cretins a la Ralsky, sign me up for it. Get a war chest together and I'll pledge $100 (not a lot but I'm a student, I'm not exactly rolling in money. However I consider the right not to be fucked up the ass for running an indexing service to be a right that is worth defending). Enough's enough, this has crossed the line. This is no better than highway robbery.
As to whoever executed this little act... $12k huh? Enjoy your hard earned instalment for your new BMW you piece of shit.
While this discussion means nothing to the current case, in my experience (not myself but a family member) the public defender (as well as the lower end of paid criminal defenders) consider it their job to ease the perp through the court system with as little trouble or expense to the court as possible.
Assuming they buy on average 5 CD's, and each one costs $12, that works out to 5*12=$60 per student. 60*100 = $6000 total.
$12000 > $6000, so it's worth it. You're looking at the new business model of the music industry.
A BuyNoCDs day would be perfect. We should use a relevant date, either the date that CDs became available, or the date that Napster officially stopped functioning. But to do it we should look into making a lot of publicity, otherwise it won't work at all. (i.e. somebody's got to stand in front of the building with flyers) Ideas anyone? I think showing the industry just how 'up' sales have been is a good idea. Boycotts do get attention, if properly done...
"I'd say 'Have a good time,' but arson is still illegal.
Yes, RPI does provide legal advice to students via the student union. However, if you read down the page, you find that they don't handle "Patent and copyright problems".
\"index of\" mp3
I do this on google all the time in exactly that fashion... it's amazing some of the results I get. So why aren't they sueing google? I'd like to see them do that so google could win and the kid would have a precedent for a counter-suit. He'd probably be able to win, get his original life savings back, along with coverage of all money he put out for the legal battle.
...
w00t!! lol!!
Is convergence possible? Is the whole premise behind .NET possible if every effort to unify networks and create robust file-rich environments is stomped out of existence by the RIAA? If the RIAA took my life savings.. I'd probably go crazy and well.. can't say those thing anymore..
s/your/you're/. Learn it, Love it. Acquire a basic grasp of grammar, then consider critiquing our legal system.
http://www.boycott-riaa.com/membership.php
Sure it's a pain in the ass. Oh, or did you want someone ELSE to "stop them."
It Is the Nature of Information to Transgress Artificial Boundaries
Hmm, $18 for a twelve-track CD that is 35 minutes long, or $10 for the Blue Monday single that has seven tracks and is 45 minutes long? I'll go with the single. At least it can't be combined with the previous CD and burned onto one CD-R that's still under 80 minutes long!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
I think you make a very good point; by purchasing RIAA affiliated (willingly enslaved?) artists' music, you're re-enforcing the idea in an artists' mind that by signing their soul, sorry, copyrights away to the RIAA, they will achieve success, fame, riches, etc. and that it is the ideal, or only way to do business.
If signing to the RIAA (it's members) nolonger ensures a reasonable chance of success, and perhaps hinders success, then that's going to dissuade people, which can only be good for us (cheaper CDs, dismantlement of the RIAA Empire and its associated actions) and them (keeping their copyrights, more favourable contracts, etc.)
Tough love?
Corporation, n. An ingenious device for obtaining individual profit without individual responsibility. - Ambrose Bierce
C'mon... Just like we call a rub down joint a "massage parlor" or a hooker a "dancer". Drop the legal friendly euphemisms and call a spade a spade.
Make sure you kid doesn't whistle any pop tunes on the way to school, he might end up loosing his lunch money...
Aaaah.. What a heart-warming story, dont you just think that the music-industry has found the perfect way to build customer-loyalty of its core-customers?
you can resell software, but you don't own it.
U.S. copyright law defines "the owner of a copy" in such a way that if I go to a Best Buy store, pick up a box marked "Microsoft Office", hand a $530 check to the cashier, and walk out with the box, I am "the owner of a copy". In order for Microsoft to stop this, it has to place a magic word "rental" or "lease" on the outer packaging.
Will I retire or break 10K?
First: IANAL. Everything I learned about this I learned from television documentaries. (Hey, at least I didn't learn it from "The Practice.")
Upside to PDs: there's very frequently a need for them, so as I understand, sometimes they grab a private lawyer that happens to be in the building at the (wrong) time and name them as a public defender in your case. It's the legal system's version of a lottery. ;)
Downside: PDs are very often overworked, and very commonly get handed the case moments before they're due in court to represent the defendant. A documentary I saw on the topic showed a PD getting a case, reviewing it for about 2 minutes, speaking with the defendant for about 5 minutes, then appearing in court as representation.
Additional downside: I'll grant your point, PDs do spend far more time in court than their private sector counterparts. However, in the same amount of time that a private sector lawyer would handle a single case, PDs will be juggling several (dozens?) of cases. The private sector lawyer will usually be able to do more of the research into the case and prior court cases than the PD will have the opportunity to.
Where I come from people like the Provisional IRA / Loyalists use music and video piracy as a means of income, along with drug pushing and God only knows what else. Instead of using their powers to stop major pirating operations, they go after some poor sod for creating a generic search engine!?
"He has stood up to the schoolyard bullies that are pulling this and he's said, 'You are not going to make me say something that's not true,'" Andy said.
Yea, and then he handed over his lunch money.
If you're going to grease yourself up for the RIAA, don't try to rationalize it by saying you skipped the reacharound.
the EFF or whomever should take a collection for somethign like a superbowl commercial spot, to show what the RIAA is doing, that they are pricefixing and inflating prices while releasing crappy music.
Convince people to stop buying cds until they wise up, and start offering music thats easily obtainable and for a reasonable price, so it wont be *worth* it to pirate.
Man, if I was a multimillionare, thats what I would do....
"Computer games don't affect kids; I mean if Pac-Man affected us as kids, we'd all be running around in darkened rooms,
loser pays legal fees.
nuff said.
Roth IRA's, 401(k)'s, 403(b)'s, and other retirement plans are basically untouchable, by lawsuite or just about anything else. Only downside is they're also untouchable to you, but less money now (when you don't need it) means more money later (when you do).
Even when you apply for financial aid and what-not when going to college, retirement plans don't count. Your parents could have millions of dollars in retirement plans, but the University wouldn't consider that.
Of course, none of this justifies the fact that the RIAA is a bunch of greedy music-nazi's, who are so greedy that they aren't satisfied with the billions they get from sales, but also have to steal college student's life-savings.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
I have a friend that coded and runs a similar web-based college-network search engine. He knows full well that he could be sued and wants to fight any case the RIAA brings against him. He has done interviews for one of the National World News stations (can't remember which one) and he has been in an article in the New York Times. He has already talked to some non-forprofit groups that would defend him if he did get sued, and he intends to fight it to the bitter end. He is much more brave than this guy.
I'm a firm believer in the philosophy of a ruling class. Especially since I rule. -Randal, Clerks
Frankly, it's easier for a radio station or much/mtv to deal with 5 companies (who each deal with thousands of artists) and get their music through them, than it would be for them to deal with thousands of independent labels, each with a handful of bands.
Record pools could help here. A record pool takes music from various sources, and sends out either compilations of music every week/month, or singles as they get them. Of course, the record pool would have to deal with the thousands of individual companies, and there's a lot riding on a radio station to switch over to another distribution channel likt that. They might not release a song that becomes a big hit (pool doesn't carry that artist, they decided it wasnt a good song, whatever), but their competitors might.
And once a pool gets big enough, there's the same sort of "corruption" thats easily possible. For example, if a pool is a big supplier of some big stations (say they supply MTV with most of their music), they can start to do things like charge large 'handling' fees to the labels. You then get right back to the same situation we have now where only the big ones with lots of money can do anything.
If you totally cut out the middle man (ie, no record companies, pools, etc), then you're left with artists dealing directly with each station. There are millions of artist, and millions of stations. Each (artists and stations) would need at least one person (and realistly, probably a team of 10-20 people) dedicated to dealing with the stations/artists. Each station individually has to decide whether a song is a hit or crap, or somewhere in the middle, and how much airtime it should get.
I think we're running into issues any way it goes right now. We need a new method. And I'm not sure what that is right now.
Speak before you think
So sueing someone just because their product/invention etc. can be used for an illegal purpose even though that it is not it's only use or the primary function of the product id now OK.
And yet Republican politicians (who by and larger are the one's supporting this) don't want anyone to be able to sue gun manfacturers for producing a tool that's primary use is to maim or injure and has plenty of illegal uses. In this case the responsibilty lies with the user...
what a classic quote!
i'll take the blonde, you take the one in the turban..
you haven't touched your food doctor.... there! you happy? now i've touched it!
I couldn't disagree more. Most of the time, honest musicians are just doing what they can do to eke out a modest living, and the major labels are more than happy to take advantage of their rather desperate economic situations and sign them to insane deals in which there is little if any hope of the musicians making any appreciable living.
/. than it is to turn down a deal that might give you a few meager bucks so that you can make rent and eat in the short run, but will end up screwing you back to the stone age in the end. The major labels are fully aware of this, and they know that they have such a stranglehold on the industry that they can keep their little fiefdom/cartel/whatever you want to call it going...and that's why the internet and digital music and copying scares them so much, because the new technologies are allowing artists to explore new avenues of distributing and promoting themselves, avenues which don't involve the major labels and their draconian contracts. Sure, there's the whole issue of IP and theft of existing copyrighted material, but that's just for the short term. The bottom line is that the majors' business model depends on being able to tightly control distribution of an artist's product, and now that the genie's out of the bottle, they are acting in desperation to protect their regime.
Take a look at what passes for a standard recording contract sometime; I think that you will find it very eye-opening.
Now, could musicians refuse to sign these deals? Sure they could, but it's much easier to say that while posting to
Do they honestly care about getting $12K from some college kid? I doubt it. It's not about his money, it's about using intimidation and scare tactics to make an "example" of him so that they can continue their iron-fisted rule.
In Soviet Russia, Chuck Norris will still kick your ass.
Well, my friends, we are reaching a critical time.
Reading through the comments attached to this article, they key concepts that jumped out at me were:
1) His software was nothing different than google or sherlock or anything else. He had no chance. "the weak caribou gets attacked first". He could not fight back. He should have, but that could have meant years of his life delayed.
2) You cannot support artists directly without dealing with this monster. If you stop buying CDs, the artists get NO support. Geography dictates what concerts you can go to and even then, you have to go through ticketmaster and deal with clearchannel, who are all presumably allies of the RIAA.
These people have an unfair hold over us through their tenuously legal monopolies.
I stopped buying CDs a long time ago. I buy used discs only from local retailers. The new Apple store will be a great avenue once they get their independents populated.
But the problem here is in order to kill the cancer you have to injure the host. If we boycott the RIAA and clear channel and go grassroots with this, which is the only way (1), we will kill off a lot of the good music that comes out of the equation during the period of transition, but this is a necessary cost.
It's up to us. We see the problem and we see solutions. that's what geeks do. We can bitch or we can act. I am acting. No clear channel for me, no RIAA for me.
(1) It's not enough to change the laws or get the government to do it. The government currently is a bigger parasite than the RIAA could ever be.
nuckcl@yahoo.com
This is indicative of people being pissed already, I think. Take into consideration that $12,000 is a LOT of CDs. That is, it's approximately 668.52 worth of full-length albums.
Everyone take a look at your music collections right now - exactly how many pirated music albums do you have? One or two hundred, at the max? Several dozen? How many of those are independent artists? If you're anything like me, most of your digital music isn't even mainstream, and just about as much of it is even on major labels. Most of the hardcore music collectors I know of have similar situations. The largest collector I know of has around 12G of music (he's an avid show/scene person, and has all the CDs for what he's got, too).
Consider that a 13G music collection is roughly 325 albums worth of 10-song albums composed of 4Mb songs (with fairly lossy compression). That's not even half of what those albums would have cost at full RIAA retail.
Now, let's guesstimate how many CDs your average college campus would buy, were there not such things as P2P and MP3s, and the Internet. Consider: that I, as well as most of the people I know, can not afford CDs, that most music on the radio is claptrap, that all of the music I listen to I would not even know about if it were not for P2P (and would likely have never made it were it not for a large fanbase in the p2p community).
Also consider that prior to any of these new-fangled CDs (that is, in the 70's and 80's), many people in college would use high-fidelity turntables to dub records to metal-oxide or normal audio cassettes - saving many dollars by not buying the official album release.
My guess is that, over the course of a year, a college campus of around 2,000 students would purchase -maybe- 2,000 albums, most of those being pollarized in a select group of people - the music enthusiasts. Everyone else would just listen to the auditory rot on the radio (as they do now, in addition to the same songs in MP3 form). Of those 2,000 albums, multiple copies would be made. Easily half of those albums purchased would not be mainstream bands, and those that were mainstream albums would likely be in the more peripheral parts of mainstream.
This postulation leads me to conclude that these lawsuits are a feeble attempt to recoup money for their failing industry monopoly. People have caught on, and are tired of paying up the wazoo for a couple songs that most likely are tiresome by the 3rd time they listen to them.
All in all, this kid got raped. He took one 'for the team'. Very foolish of him to do so: he should have used that 12k to go to court. Of course, the RIAA would have appealed, and appealed any counter-suit, so really, he couldn't have done it on his own.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
...had people signed up sooner they would have used their $5 already, having nothing left for the poor kid ;)
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
While this is clearly a troll, there is a grain of wisdom in here. People generally don't have to seek power, they get granted it, for various reasons. In the case of Germany, the Nazis grew from a period of ecconomic recession, given power to resolve the problems the nation was experencing. And yes, you can easily compair the RIAA to the Nazi rise to power. Basicly they RIAA is being given this power to deal with what is percieved as an ecconimic crisis, and in order to justify them selves, they found a pretty convienent scapegoat, filesharing.
While the Nazi case is a very extreem one, it's an important one to remember because well it can happen, it did happen, and it can happen again. Got a problem, find a scapegoat, rally the people in a common goal to deal with the scapegoat. Oh it must be working, I guess the scapegoat was really to blame, but don't stop now. Doesn't matter the fact the problem was resolved by a people united and the scapegoat had nothing at all to do with the problem in the first place, creating an external enemy WORKS!
I prefer not using the term Nazis beause it's far too commonly used just for shock value. But if the shoe fits, so be it.
Now the problem with the RIAA is by declairing "file sharing" as the enemy, it's something very self defeating because their consumers use filesharing. They start cracking down on their consumers, guess what, they are going to loose. The RIAA has been given this power by artists who really need an asshole. Metalica, while I may disagree with them, couldn't relaly be *the* asshole without it cutting into their music sales. So the RIAA becomes the asshole, so people with the Metalica attidude can have plauseable deniablity. "It's not ME, it's the RIAA".
So what's the solution, as this troll pointed out, convience artists that the RIAA's present vision is incompatable with their interests.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
Find out where to send fan mail, and send them a check..
Problem solved.. and they would get a more reasonable amount of $ from you then buying the CD..
No need to continue to line the pockets of the industry managers..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Maybe not true?
-T
...he is organizing the community to confiscate his $12,000 back for him from the RIAA :-)
(You know how to confiscate from the music industry, don't you? You may have been confiscating all along, without knowing the noble cause you did it for. Now you know, so write that check. No it's not legal. Who cares. In the US of A today legal is what you get away with)
When civil cases are brought before a court, neither side should be allowed to spend more money than the other. If the kid is only going to spend $1,000 dollars on the case, that's all the RIAA should be allowed to spend. If the RIAA wants to spend more, they should have to either:
(a) Offer to loan him enough money so that he could also spend as much as they do. In this case, he's free to turn down their offer, and they have to proceed to (b) if they want to hire a more expensive laywer than he can afford.
(b) Give him the money for the more expensive lawyers.
This eliminates the advantage of the rich.
social sciences can never use experience to verify their statemen
There is no need for pointless middlemen in the workplace. Artists can deliver the music for themselves with little aid from distributors. They don't need to sign their lives away to huge record companies that want [X] percent of the revenues generated by the artists creativity. Sorry, but the record companies' services aren't that significant. The artists could put in a little extra work and make loads of extra cash for their own work. (Obviously, it isn't just as simple as that, but in some cases it can be. And with a little effort, then it can be made to be that simple...)
You know the kind - the ones that threaten to beat you up if you don't give them your lunch money. From the ABC article:
[quote]
But Jordan did agree to pony up $12,000, his entire savings account, to the RIAA. Jordan and his father, Andy Jordan, felt the settlement was their best option.
"They agreed to allow Jesse to deny their allegations. They agreed to dismiss the case and all allegations against him," Andy said. "Basically they agreed that he didn't do anything wrong, but [they're] taking his 12 grand."
[/quote]
"You're evil - the spawn of satan, stealing food from the poor execut...uhh, artists. REPENT!! Or if you want to settle for whatever you have, you can state in court that you did no wrong-doing, and we'll keep quiet."
On the other hand, sounds like a mafia protection racket, too.
"Jesus saves, but everyone else in a 10 foot radius takes full damage from the fireball."
I am surely not even going to run any p2p software or a search engine. It isn't worth the risk. Since our government is allowing the RIAA to push it's citizenry around, hence would allow any corporation with enough legal muscle to do the same, America is no longer a free country.
It is run by companies with the money and legal resources to extort money from anyone who doesn't have the resources to defend themselves. Our country is just like the rest. The golden rule prevails.
I, for one, will simply be a good little nazi and no longer turn my computer on since firewalls are now illegal in my state, unless you buy one from your ISP(which I can't afford) I have to now drop broadband. Thanks RIAA and MPAA, you got what you wanted.
I wasn't a pirate before, I used to buy my music legally, but now, I will NEVER buy a legal cd again, by anyone.
Instead I will go to NYC and buy pirated copies from organized criminals on the street, just to spite you. Guess what, you can't sue me for that, since you can't see it on kazaa.
GFYS RIAA and MPAA. I hope you are broke in 5 years and you all lose your jobs. I definitely won't ever hire anyone with either of these organizations on their resume.
l8,
AC
nice post - i've thought about the topic using the same terminology - pimps and whores - for a while now - you fleshed out the argument well
I beg to differ. With $12K as lunch money, millions in potential from impacts, and the freedom of choice for everyone, and the law essentially turning a blind eye with it being in the spotlight.
h ol d=-1&commentsort=0&tid=123&mode=thread&cid=6150427
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=66956&thres
"Last one in is a rotten goblin!" - Kepp
Like the telephone number to the main corporate office
At least that is my belief.
Yeah, but some (but not most!) of those drugs are fucking good. I want to support the ingenious people who make those drugs.
Why not? Microsoft Windows' Search engine always finds illegal mp3's on my computer...
(1) Software project management techniques seem to vary by discipline. Some groups follow the traditional âoewaterfallâ(TM) model others follow Rapid Programming models â" Do you try to follow a particular style?
(2) Classic project management spends a lot of time accounting for resources. I can imagine that an open source project has people signing-on and dropping off. How did you keep assignments & scheduling under control?
(3) Have you come up with any tips or tricks that work for managing your project that might be useful to other software development Project Managers?
I cant fucking stand this RIAA, i gotta DoS them or smothign...............
There are plenty of ways to say things without verbalizing them. It's a damn shame that it is more cost effective for this kid to empty his bank account than it is for him to stand up to this crap.
I used Google to search for St. Anger (Metallica's newest release) and found it in about 10 seconds. RIAA should go after Yahoo, Google, Lycos, et. al and leave this kid alone. What a bunch of felch-monkeys....
Mod parent up please. This is a great idea. Hold a boycott day and send all the money you would have used for CDs to the student. Nice big check with fanfare and hopefully press coverage.
Unfortunately, no dates that correspond to the demise of Napster are soon enough to capitalize on the story.
Should be able to help organize it through here:
http://www.boycott-riaa.com/
And a bunch of nasty letters to the RIAA on the corresponding day.
What happened disgusts/frightens me. Need a vehicle to show it.
As an aside, since the case was settled, doesn't that leave the student free to make Napster2 if he desired?
now lets slashdot his domain and drive his hosting bill through the roof so he has to put all the money he gets donated into covering those bills.
Can't seem to pull up http://www.riaa.org/
ddos maybe ??
No matter how far technology advances, CD's will always be throwable; you can even break them into sharp fragments if you don't like the person you're throwing them at.
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/05/06/19 1207&mode=thread&tid=188&tid=141&tid=99&tid=12 3
...that you should've fought the urge to uninstall your spellchecker.
--n
First: IANAL.
...
Me either, but I am married to a former PD, current ADA.
Downside: PDs are very often overworked
So are the ADAs. I know that my ADA has assembled a case in less than 24 hours becasue everything else pleads out.
BTW - If what you saw was an attorney going to trial with 7 minutes notice, that was an ethical breach by the judge and the defense attorney and the defendant should be able to have the conviction thrown out. Any ADA worth their salt would have objected if they knew about it.
a private sector lawyer would handle a single case
This isn't true. Private attorneys carry a large caseload as well. At no time is a money-making private attorney working on just one case.
Further, a PD will know the ADA and the judge. In our town the PD and the ADA are assigned to a courtroom for an entire year. They know who to trust and who not to. They know what will piss the judge off and how to keep them happy.
I was just refuting the "public defenders invariably suck" comment. I don't deny that the system is loaded towards those wealthy enough to pay for their own attorney. I deny that the PDs suck without exception, or even that sucky PDs are in the majority.
modding this "Off-topic" in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1
Nothing to see here. Move along.
People are pointing out that RIAA is only going after an easy meal in this case. And, that they won't go after Yahoo or Google (or MSN or AOL) because those beasts have teeth and claws of their own.
But...think who the RIAA are really after. They are not after file sharing geeks regardless of the network. They are after geeks that build file sharing networks in the first place. They want to kill off the *next* napster before it is even born, by getting the message out to would-be developers that the RIAA actually *prefer* to track down and eat little people like them, and clearly have developed the staff and techniques (and moles?) to do so.
It really is horrendous and a blatant play to quash innovation in a field that is not only the next phase of the growth of the Internet, but also one that will erode the distribution Mafias of several big industrys besides the RIAA. What may be at stake here is the very concept of market control through scarcity.
=^..^= all your rodent are belong to us
Go burn in the hell Americans!!
lets start the flame war!
College student's life savings. So thats 12 times four, carry the 1; minus the sum and... comes out to roughly $125.16. Not a bad deal.
it would have to be a group effort of awareness, and the record industry would have to know that it was being done, i think. Point out that we're not advocating piracy, (we're not, that's an individual decision)just AGAINST what they're doing. And i think it would spread out best through college students, etc. And should probably be a weekend day, because most of us who have the cash to buy CDs are in classes or work during the weekdays... and won't be able to hang flyers...
"I'd say 'Have a good time,' but arson is still illegal.
i wonder what that guy should have done to prevent music from being shared? would a disclaimer have been enough?
then i'd say it's his own fault for sure.
would he have had to deny searching for various audio file formats and possibly even archives?
then i'd say poor guy.
well in either way it's not fair of the riaa to take an enormous amount of money from him (i mean $12k? come on) for a thing to which he merely provided the technology, and it wasn't even meant for sharing pirated files.
who's next? the game industry saying "wait a sec, let's sue him for the search engine's ability to find games"? i sure hope not
it's not about mimicking reality, it's about believability
1.) Why didn't RPI come to this student's defense?
2.) If I were the kid, I'd switch majors to "law" and, one day, become a huge thorn in RIAA's arse.
...because I know in Norway, you can get a lawyer appointed to you if you are being *sued* and fall under certain income and assets limits, both under criminal and civil law. How do you think DVD-Jon can afford to (still) be fighting?
Is that "if you can not afford a lawyer, one will be appointed to you" only valid in criminal cases? Can any 800lb gorilla pummel you freely in civil court? Sounds like a poor system to me, no offense intended.
Kjella
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Instead of pointing your ad server domain name searches at null (the host file ad killing trick) instead point the requests at an RIAA site.
Thousands of geeks hitting their servers on every blocked ad should cost them.
Where and when did the author of the search engine sign a contract with the RIAA promising it would not index music files? Did he sign another with the MPAA promising it wouldn't index video files? Is there someone he should contract with to avoid indexing still images?
This is not a contract issue, but an issue of rights and freedoms. Search engines are just information filters. They don't provide the data, just a means of locating it. If someone is searching for illegal material, or making illegal material available, the resulting issues are their responsibility, not the search engine author's.
You are correct about this not being a freedom of speech issue, until you consider that the index of a hard-copy document (such as an encyclopedia) is the equivalent of a search engine for online material. Are you suggesting the RIAA should be able to block any document index from referencing MP3's or OggVorbis information because it can be used to perform an illegal act?
What's next -- the RIAA sues Google for allowing you to search for the pattern "MP3"? Perhaps they can go after Addison-Wesley and other book publishers next for providing guides and manuals that can be used to develop the next technology the RIAA is threatened by.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
A Bully beats someone up just to get his way. Mafia beats someone up in the name of "business" and that's what the RIAA does. They might like you, hell they might be your best friend, but "business is business" and when it comes time for the cement shoes it's all done in the name of business and we hope there aren't any hard feelings.
What I want to know is why nobody has mentioned bringing up the RIAA on racketeering charges. Seems to me it's not far fetched. Their "business" practices really do resemble mafia "business" tactics.
. Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
...and when I was young we used to walk to school twelve miles in the snow, uphill, both ways... and we LIKED it!
The combined companies that make up the RIAA have released fewer new tiles. See the BusinessWeek article and this article by George Ziemann of MacWizards Music
If I understand basic accounting correctly, then releasing 20% fewer new titles should reduce expenses somwhat (admittedly not by quite 20%), so suffering only a 7% drop in sales should look like an increase in profits, unless you are expiriencing losses other than in sales.
I have learned of much of the new music I listen to through CDBaby.com and I'm sure that the RIAA companies are not very happy about losing customers to artists that don't care much for the typical record company contract.
It seems the companies are once again not being quite honest about thier losses, the causes, and, it seems, thier motives.
Read, L
and they suck dog balls
How do you figure? The kid settled for $12,000. That's what's being reported by the national media. Period. If you manage to help him recover the money, that might get reported on a few nerd websites; but I don't see it damaging the RIAA's "symbolic victory" one iota.
I doubt we're getting the whole story -- here, or with the other four students who settled last month. I'd like to see someone ask them one question: "Did you have any pirated music?" I've never used Napster/KaZaA/etc. in my life. (I'm a Mac user.) If the RIAA came after me for writing one of these programs, you can bet that would be the first thing out of my mouth to any reporter who'd listen: "I have never traded music."
The software may not be as devious as the RIAA is painting it; but if these kids did in fact have pirated MP3s, then it's going to be pretty tough to convince a jury that their hands were squeaky-clean.
And BTW, did anyone else notice the kid's father beaming with pride? "He has stood up to the schoolyard bullies that are pulling this," he says of his son. The kid forked over his life's savings, without a hint of protest. It's pretty hard to keep a straight face listening to the nerd tell you how he beat up the bully, while his nose is still bleeding and his lunch money's gone.
One final note: This kid was a college student at a polytech school, with $12,000 in his bank account. You know a lot of college students who are sitting on $12,000? If you want to donate your money to charitable use, that's commendable; but there are better fronts to fight in this battle, and I suspect there are more needy victims than little Jesse Jordan.
My two cents.
crib
Please don't read my journal
I'm trying to make sure I understand this - it seems like the "loser pays" law is designed to allow the side with the most expensive lawyers to use them as a bludgeon against the side with less money. In other words, it's effect seems to PREVENT frivolous lawsuits AGAINST big corporations, while ENABLING frivolous lawsuits BY such corporations.
In other words, as it pertains to the article at hand, the kid would have been actually less likely to fight the RIAA in a "loser pays" system. So "loser pays," if anything, makes the legal system less accessible to the common man who has a legitimate complaint.
I don't think I'm missing anything here, am I? Sounds like the only benefit of "loser pays" for the bulk of us might be to lessen insurance rates (as you allude to).
I think a much better idea would be to have the loser pay the winner an award equal to THEIR OWN legal fees. That would put a quick end to the "lawsuit as weapon" effect - and would give people an actual incentive to fight this crap, namely a handsone financial windfall. If both sides had access to equal representation, this would be equal to the "loser pays" system as it stands and as was probably intended.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
This is like saying I can sue Google for providing a link to an illegal website (that has some effect toward my industry/income). As we would know it, Google would be sued out of existence. Or does the RIAA just pick on the people who can't defend themselves monetarily. At least SCO sued someone who can put up a fight.
I have always wondered about this problem, and let's see if the slashdot community has any input. If, for example, the RIAA employs people to use P2P services to see who is trading illegal files, then these people theoretically would be downloading these files and during that time, making it available to other people to download. Since it's the RIAA who's making it available for people to download and they are the legal owners of the copyright to that file, haven't they just legitimized sharing that particular file?
When CDs came out (mid 1980's) they were about $10, and the should have gone down.
When CDs first came out, they were $20+. The first CD I ever bought was in 1986, it was "The Monkees Greatest Hits". The CD was 66+ minutes, and cost $24 because it was "double length".
This was at a time when cassette tapes were in the $7-11 range ($11 for "longer" tapes). Remember in the music stores, where the cassettes weren't actually priced with prices, they had codes like "AA -- $11, BB -- $9, CC -- $8"? You had to look at a chart on the wall to figure out the price of the day.
After a while CD street prices settled in the $15 range, with occassional sales of $11-12. The official MSRP of most CDs was still $16-19.
Since CDs are more or less the same price or cheaper than they were back in 1988 (15 years ago), I don't think people can really complain too much here.
Ralph
This story was on slashdot over a month ago.
Check out this comment:
Link
Blah Blah Tacos
I wonder how much they'd be going after students if they started receiving their settlements in the form of quarters or nickels (I doubt you could scrounge up 1.2 million pennies, but hey -- never underestimate the power of /. )
"I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar."
-Hoban Washburn
Old news on slashdot. Check out this comment:
Link
Blah Blah Tacos
1) Get tens of thousands of dollars of student loans and rack up a few G's of credit card debt.
2) Write program that searches a network for files.
3) Get sued by RIAA.
4) Settle for the value of your life savings.
5) PROFIT!
paintball
...imagine what they can get from Google. After all, they do exactly the same thing wholesale that he does retail.
Hmm.. somehow I have a feeling that this would be a waste of money.
So far, he hasn't been contacted by the RIAA, but who knows what will happen. Two things about UWtribe, only students can access it, and they must be on campus to grab files (firewall). I wonder if chewplastic.com operated in similar circumstances.
Anyone seen the new RIAA commercials, it's almost as bad as the anti-marjuana commercials. So when do I get my time card to go to the washroom :P
Next please!
That may well be a waste of money, but this *definitely* is.
In Soviet Russia, Chuck Norris will still kick your ass.
I am Mack bling bling wid da 20 inch rims MC, and fa sheezy fa shizzle ma nizzle dizzle, iffen any a yall be tryin to take mah benjamins amma goan hafta bust a cap in yo dome.
Its not as if I needs the money - I got me a strech hummer, twev benzes wid da 20inch rims, a entire room for ma kicks in ma 22 room house, wit da gold plated jacuzzi with the little fridge for the cristal and malt liquor, an the pool table, an the full size basketball court fo ma homies.
Ma pimp hand is strong and I still be pimpin them hoes and runnin the streets, but these be MA benjamins, and I want me a third helicopter.
So don't mess wit my thugs the RIAA, they be gettin me mine. The fiyahplace in ma bedroom fo da ladies wid da bearskin rug be runnin low on money to burn.
Clearly too many posters don't get to the heart of the matter, which I thought was transparent. Evidently not.
The goal of the RIAA is to scare people with examples to prevent the activity. It would hardly be an example if their target was a struggle, wouldn't it? They've already tried to scare the downloaders of songs. Now they are moving up the chain to those that setup the tools in their environment. If this doesn't work, they may consider a move up the chain again and sue school administration. The theory would be that school administration would put pressure on the students (various ways academic institutes can apply) to stop their activities. Perhaps deploy a strategy/policy for computer network usage to restrict it (ie IT department of the school). But this is probably an option that they wouldn't want to take since conflicts between schools and students usually end up ugly. But it would allow the RIAA to push their agenda without getting their hands too dirty, letting the schools do the dirty work for them.
"To fight the bugs, one must first understand the bugs." - StarShip Troopers
"Last one in is a rotten goblin!" - Kepp
The big argument against loser pays is that then poor people don't dare sue even if they should win, since in the rare chance they don't they're screwed.
.
One great way to fix that. . .
Loser's **LAWYER** pays. If your case is worth a damn the lawyers will still be more than willing to sign up since they know they have a very good chance of winning. But they will reject crap cases since they won't want to pay for the defendant's court costs.
Besides, it shouldn't be up to the person thinking of suing to decide if the case is worth pursuing or not. Loser pays gives the lawyer every incentive to encourage you to go ahead with the suit, since if he loses the case for you, you are stuck with the bill anyway. Let the lawyer be the one at risk and you're way more likely to get honest advice on if it is worth suing or not.
My motto is: Never give up - unless it's harder than you want it to be.
After just receiving yet another spam email from a former [insert poor country here] official asking for my personal help in moving their large sum of money, the first thing I thought of upon reading this article was that it's gotta be a scam.
Hello - I'm a [poor student] who has created a wonderful piece of free software used for [searching for files] and the [monolithic faceless corporation that everyone already hates] has just sued me, but in an out-of-court-settlement, we agreed to me transferring them my life savings of [believable amount]. Now I'm a [poor student] with no money, and I'm asking for [suckers] to help me out here and send in donations.
It smells strongly of that website a while back who cried foul when his webpage got slashdotted and he received the bill from his ISP for the incoming traffic.
Just a thought, if nothing else.
just sayin' hi.
........... kris
Kris Magnusson
"I thought I could organize freedom. How Scandinavian of me."
.... more piracy.
Think about it, they refuse to understand that sales CAN go down. They insist it must ALWAYS increase!
Businesses downturn. I'm sick of the crap being played over and over and over on the radio..... so I switched to NPR, gave them 40$, and have been happy ever since.
For geeks, I'm surprised you don't support the FREE stations more with a little financial contribution. But... I'll say it for completeness sake- put your money where your mouth is.
I wonder when the RIAA will take on Google after all mp3 is a widely used keyword on their search engine.
What has the world come to when a pack of lawyers can pickpocket a poor student because he knows HTML ?
looks like the RIAA is taking some of SCO's legal techniques
Personally, I think the best thing that could happen is for the artists to all get screwed over on their advances, when they find out people just aren't buying enough stuff on major label CDs and tapes to cover their loans.
That's what it seems like it will take to get musicians and artists to "read the fine print" on these outrageous recording contracts, and just say "NO!" to them.
As it stands, they're all still willing to take the gamble that it will pay off for them. (EG. "I know *my* music is so good, it's gotta go platinum. I won't be one of the failures.")
As far as I know (and I could certainly be wrong), a person [vendor, organization, ...] is not required to accept more than 25 cents in pennies as real currency.
Just about everyone will accept more, but they don't have to... In other words, you can't punish the store clerk down the street by bringing in 200lbs of pennies when he is busy.
I'm not feeling witty so bite me
Does the RIAA make anything off of used CDs?
Hoist Number One and Number Six.
Yeah, well, as you say, that's one big gamble. In any case, the risk of losing goes up considerably, making one less likely to defend oneself. Maybe it should be a "plaintiff-pays-if-he-loses, but defend yourself at no risk" kind of thing.
-Looking for a job as a materials chemist or multivariat
Another brilliant use of sudo! Not only can it make your machines more secure, it can also make your sysadmins less vulnerable to RIAA!
-Peter
Hukt on foniks werkt fer me!
Is there another assosiation out there besides being an independent??? It seems to me they are a monopoly and that the government should look into the price gouging.
By the way, does anyone know the breakdown of a Cd's price? Like:
RIAA:25%
Label:25%
Production & Distribution:25%
Band:25%
Then run for office.
You assume that everybody is eligible. "No person shall be elected to $OFFICE who has not attained to the age of $BIGNUM years..." People who graduate from high school "on time" and are on track to complete a bachelor's or master's degree "on time" are too young to run for public office while still in school.
Besides, without using the services of AOL Time Warner, Viacom, and Disney, who own the television networks, how can a candidate convince the TV-watching public to vote for him or her?
Will I retire or break 10K?
We know that RIAA is deliberately misleading people about the economic impact of on-line file trading and piracy (see http://www.guidance.net.nz/article.php?article_id= 123 and http://www.azoz.com/music/features/0008.html .)
The real danger to the RIAA's business is their disintermediation. That is, new technologies, especially the Internet itself, have the potential to eliminate them as the middlemen between artists and consumers. They have even admitted this (although I can't find a URL for that article at the moment.)
At this point, many (perhaps most) of the small artists refusing to associate with the major labels view online file-trading of their work as free advertising. The piracy angle is just the best way the RIAA has come up with to sabotage that. If they can stop the technology, they can slow their demise.
RIAA is mis-using the government and the legal system in an attempt to protect their on-going revenue stream. The question to ask is "why are they meeting with so much success in this clearly un-American, unjust activity?"
Dev
I just don't see anything in the constitution about losing your right to free speech if you fail to exercise your right to vote.
The right to "freedom of speech" guaranteed by the first article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States does not necessarily imply a right to have one's speech heard. AOL Time Warner, Viacom, Disney, Clear Channel, and other companies that own television and radio networks control that right. Not everybody lives on the Internet like some Slashdot readers do.
Will I retire or break 10K?
Mr. Burns: "And to think, Smithers... you laughed when I bought TicketMaster. (mocking voice) 'Nobody is going to pay a 100% surcharge!'"
Smithers: "It ensures a healthy mix of the rich and the ignorant, sir."
There are only 10 kinds of people in this world... those who understand binary and those who don't
Because you're all boycotting the RIAA by not buying CDs and stuff, right? And you're encouraging others to do the same ... so... eventually they'll get the idea, or cease to exist.
Just watch out for the next step in the destruction of consumer protection: Bush and the Republican Party's so called "Tort Reform." They want to make it impossible to sue businesses. This has already started. In the mid 90's the Republican Party passed legislation over Clinton's veto that made it much more difficult to sue corporations in class action lawsuits. The test case was against ENRON!!!!!!!!! The supreme court upheld the law, and there was no trial. If I remember correctly, the suit was over deceptive business practices, the very thing that lead to their collapse. A court proceeding could have caused a public examination of Enron's operations, and even if Enron won it might have lead to different corporate behavior.
Going after the powerless or the outsider the classic strategy for destroying liberty. We are on the road to a police state under the guise of the "total information awareness" and the DMCA.
had anyways, and he claims he did no wrong, then why settle ? What else has he to lose ?
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
I think people are forgetting that the RIAA is a frontline organization that the labels have act on their behalf. Its main purpose is to draw your withering hatred, to be the object of DDoS, to be printed on tshirts with a big X over their name, and, in general, to be the whipping boy that everyone heaps abuse on. Meanwhile the record labels who FUND this _association_, don't get the negative publicity from having to do the dirty work themselves. The LABELS need to be reminded that the public has not forgotten that THEY are responsible for all the strongarming. If everyone needs a rallying cause then let this technically savvy wimp who handed over $12k be it. For every CD that you don't buy send a letter to the label that produced it stating "I would have purchased this CD but I can not support the actions of your agent, the RIAA. Until they return the $12k they bullied from whats-his-face you will no longer be getting my business." Everything else is impotent.
CommentBot 0.7a running with args "-module irritate,disagree -target random"
When was the last time a politician asked what you thought
Provided you live in the USA: Right now.
Will I retire or break 10K?
God I love it! Nothing like a company sueing the shit out of a poor guy. But one question remains, why didn't anyone go after the university? Since THEY allowed the engine to run? I believe this to be a co-op between the University and the RIAA. The university gets a good "warning" for the students and the RIAA get a "Major" victory.
Side bar. I also think it is so neat that this thing explodes again...after the freakin war in Iraq. How screwed up is this mess? We need to re-think our lives here. Out of all the companies in the world, the record industry is screwing up peoples lives here, entertainment based companies folks! This is vanity shoved in everyones face. Hell we don't even here of drug companies screwing people this bad-not yet any way.
I'm sure that 12K they got from the poor kid is going straight into the pocket of the congressperson voting for the RIAA.
Hey.....who took my soap box away?....hey get the tape off of my mo(%#()#@%(*&@^........
This SIG pulled due to lack of funding. (This damn war is costing too much!)
The RIAA can suck my big white They can't get me cause I live in Canada muhahaha!
Just to make sure that this is posted at least once per RIAA story. Here's a list of RIAA members... stop buying their crap.
http://www.boycott-riaa.com/membership.php
Then who pays the songwriters?
If the artists (claim to) write their own songs, who checks the songs to make sure that the artists did not accidentally infringe a copyright like George Harrison did on his solo debut album?
Will I retire or break 10K?
No one ever expects a computer guy to come at your door with weapons.
God spoke to me
Would it be legal to post shit ratings of those artists most supportive of the RIAA, like Madonna and Metallica? Say how crap their current albums are compared to old ones. Wait a second, you don't have to make those up!
By this argument, you say that by selling crack to all your friends so you could make money would count as an ethical action just like the musicians selling out and making RIAA music for the masses. What else could these poor people do? I happen to agree on both the drug dealer and musician front. People do what they can to make a living, always and almost always foremost. But it doesn't make crack any less of an addicitve drug. Nor does it make the rythmic thumpy 3-cord crap the music industry puts out any less addictive. Try driving in the car with an American without music sometime. They behave very interestingly.
/. managed to get the parent to such a high rating.
The reason they have an iron fisted rule comes from the reason they exist, to pedel their wares to their addicts. The poster claimed that people don't admit to their addiction to music and that serves as the fundimental cause of the music industry. I don't fault the RIAA/artists any more than I fault drug producers/dealers or pimps/whores. They do what they can to survive. They happen to survive in a market caused by addiction. Remove the addiction, remove the problem.
But the personal responsiblity line rarely gets much press. I feel glad that
Seriously, we need to address this problem of "stuff addiction". We don't need it. And it causes all of these horror stories that we hear. Maybe if we looked, we could find another way.
Jt
3) Find some law school teacher to hand out his case as a classroom assignement.
So by settling the charges for 12k this guy should open his network to the world and expand it he's no longer liable and should Napsterize with an anonymizing proxy server for all connections....muahaha.
Seriously the RIAA is so anachronistic its like reading about the Salem witch trials it just boogles the mind what enclosed world these executives most live in. I guess enclosed by money, hmm I want to live in this world, the darkside tempts me.
Is a KaZaa kidnapping artists and storing their heads in liquid VATS where they offer the artist likeness for download onto blank Robots. Robots who tempt men and provide everloving/lusting satisfaction, thereby causing the demise of the modern world as progress grinds to a halt.
Don't you see ROBOT LOVE IS WRONG!
(IANAL. I just read a lot. I could be wrong)
"Legislation from the bench" is not considered legal or ethical in the United States.
In theory all laws come from the Constitution and the legislative branch and the courts can only interpret them.
In practice it is a little more complex than that. The judge may rule/interpret that a law passed conflicts with the Constitution or another law and that the law is illegal. In no case can the courts bring into being any law. They may emphasize or de-emphasize a law by their actions but they cannot create them.
Coding Blog
I need food, shelter, electricity and gas money.
Once I've paid out for stuff I need, the rest falls into 'disposable income'.
I have until now spent some of my disposable income on CDs. I also spend money on Books, DVDs, going to see football etc.
I'm going to be spending a lot more money on Books, DVDs and going to the football, and nothing on CDs from any companies that pay you.
I've spent as much as £300 ($500) a year on CDs. Last year, I spent about £100 ($150). That's about 1/100th of what you took from Jesse Jordan. And looking around today on the slashdot.org website, I imagine there's plenty more than 100 others looking around.
So, by your action, you've pissed off enough people that you're getting less money into the music industry than you took from Jesse Jordan.
And by the time I've told my friends, who've told their friends, who knows how much you'll be out.
HOW IS this BAD news I want to know so tell me. Punk gets what he deserves, and he agreed to it. Serves him right. Now let him serve you a burger, with NO FRIES DAMMIT!
is backed by RIAA. Don't support it either. Made me sick with the dude came out and gave her the gold record.... means she might have broken even. Though I doubt her contract via American Idol gives her much of anything at all.
Put your money where you rmouth is and help this kid out. I'll gladly give him $50 (as I just did) than give the recording industry one red cent.
Why, oh why can't someone just shut these bastards down? Aren't there laws against this sorta thing? How is what the RIAA is doing any different than how the mob shakes down businesses?
"On a scale from 1 to 10, people are stupid"
The entire volume of precedents accumulated over the centuries is not law created by the leglisature(s). Those are findings by a jury turned into court judgments. A jury, in its fact finding objective, has the opportunity to ignore or reinterpret certain laws as too harsh or inappropriate with the spirit of Common Law. If juries were indeed only supposed to find the facts and apply them to the laws, there wouldn't be any reason why so many class-action lawsuits against large corporations are trialed in Mississippi state which has one of the poorest (and most likely corporation-unfriendly) populations in the States.
"Light is faster than sound." - "Is that why people tend to look bright until you hear them speak?"
"They agreed to allow Jesse to deny their allegations. They agreed to dismiss the case and all allegations against him," Andy said. "Basically they agreed that he didn't do anything wrong, but [they're] taking his 12 grand."
Greedy JEWi$h bastards.. JEW$ make a career out of stealing money from little people. It's their way of life, it's in their gene$...
Hitler was right...
It's dying if not a dead horse. I cannot detail all of it. Pointers: "Standardized state legislation" ala RIAA and superDMCA, among others. These usually come out of governors conferences. Look for entire rewriting of huge blocks of the state law code, Indiana ripped out the civil code dating back to the states Constitution and replaced it with one much more favorable to business, especially insurance companies. In some states there is no common law, if it's not written down it doesn't exist, soon all states will be that way.
Oh, check some of the founders comments on the common law.
The loss of a 'common law' would not be disastrous with citizen input, without it a legal hell.
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
I'm not really following the whole "crack addict" analogy, but whatever the case, you're correct about the dumbed-down garbage that gets shoveled to the masses, for the most part.
However, that wasn't the point that I was addressing. My point was that up until now, the legitimate, talented artists out there had little choice but to give in to signing horrible contracts that pretty much eventually deprive them of their firstborn in order to have any hope of even moderate success in their craft, due to the fact that the major labels controlled the market so throughly.
With the both the availability of the internet, and the plummeting cost of recording technology coupled with its vastly improved quality, that's changing, though, and that's my point. Artists are starting to be able to circumvent the traditional process and market themselves directly to the people, and cut the traditional label system somewhat out of the process...and *that's* what really has the RIAA crowd scared. This is wholly different than some people trading mp3s that were ripped from a major-label-produced CD.
BTW, I'm an American, and drive quite frequently without listening to music, with no ill effects. I'm not sure what the intent of your comment was, whether it's just another requisite elitist "non-US-resident Slashdot slam on Americans as dumb or ignorant" or whatever, but I'm sure that cars in other countries are equipped with radios/CD players/what-have-you as well, so I don't really see your point here.
In Soviet Russia, Chuck Norris will still kick your ass.
Reply if you can point me to a source or can prove me wrong... I remember hearign from someone that pennys are not legal tender. After some group (libertarians?) protesting taxes mailed all their taxes to the IRS in pennys, the tresury department declared them non-legal tender or something like that. The best proof of this i've heard is that since its a crime to destoy money or whatever, penny's must not be legal tender because they have those penny stamping machines at zoos and places, and i'd assume those are completly legal.
"Sic Semper Tyrannosaurus Rex."
All $-14k of it. They have to assume all my college debts, right?
Of all the people that the RIAA goes after, they choose the fights that they know they can win. Students have limited resources and capital and they know this. Sure, looking at the demographics data, students are probably file sharing music more than any other group, but this type of fight has worse odds than pee-wee herman against mike tyson.
To add insult to injury (or is it injury to insult?), as a student, the concern over future career and graduation status makes the person even more vulnerable. I've had the unfortunate run-in at work with my supervisors regarding a gray area in software contribution -- whether or not my contribution was my own work or owned by the University. Let me tell you, because they hold the keys to the door separating me from being a student for life and finally graduating, there is nothing I can do to fight it. It's a lose-lose situation. And if they bring in the topic of "Academic Misconduct," then there's absolutely no way you can win as a student. As students, we can only pick and choose what battles to fight in -- the RIAA knows this too well.
Linux at home
I bet you have, and you're trying to hide it to screw the RIAA out of what is rightfully theirs!!!
Who is next? Are Apple's Rendevous services guilty of aiding and abetting?
Bunch of crap.
This just goes to show that the RIAA is in it just for the money -- it doesn't care whether people do "the right thing" or not.
I just wish something would take the initiative and hit them with a barratry suit.
.
Punctanym: alternate spelling of words using punctuation or numerals in place of some or all of its letters; see 'leet'
And that will be investigated, found to be fraudulent, and the stuff will be confiscated. You would be defrauding your creditors.
Between the name "Deadlyblow Technologies" and the Dad's apparent happiness with $12,000 being vaporized, I see some hidden agenda being played out here.
I'm just waiting for the RIAA to demand a pound of flesh, their lawyers must be getting hungry, writing all those cease and decist orders. Ahem... In all seriousness, I propose building a dome around America, let them sue themselves into oblivioun. I'm sick of it. Let's just give all the right-thinking, intelligent American's a chance to get out first.
Four years later students loose their life savings.
Thank you Amy Weiss, Thank you RIAA. You have now made it clear that your "moral" argument has no merit. That you are only in this business to make money. That you would deplete the assets of a poor college student just starting out in order to protect your ability to make money. Well, guess what? I like money too. I admit I always felt a little bit strange about downloading music for free. Now I know that by saving myself money, I am no worse than you are. Well, I don't steal from college kids so maybe I'm not so bad.
Thank you for clearing my conscience.
I hate you, and I think you going to die. Just jesting. Seriously, though, mod parent up. It is definitely insightful.
In the USA, all coins are legal tender for all amounts; however, a business is perfectly free to require you to pay in a certain method when negotiating a contract with you. See http://www.snopes.com/business/money/pennies.asp
If they didn't specify that the $12,000 can't be in pennies, I believe he's free to try that and the RIAA may be obligated to accept it. They can, however, take him to court and argue that it was an unreasonable method of payment, and keep him tied up there for years, causing him vastly more pain than just forking over the money as a cheque would have been.
And if/when they take you to court again, they can have your new $1000~ life savings ;)
Actually, radio stations pay royalties to the record companies for the music they play. Remember the big brouhaha about the fees internet radio stations were required to pay? So if you listen to the radio, you actually are (indirectly) feeding the coffers of the RIAA, especially if you ever get picked as a listening survey client.
We are the 198 proof..
But I am just SEETHING.
I am totally friging ENRAGED BY this. How can those fucking son of a bitches get away with doing this to some poor fucking kid?
We need to uprise as a society and fucking drag those assholes into the street and gut them where they stand.
@#$#@$
"It's not stealing if you don't get caught!"
Claim: U.S. law specifies that a creditor does not have to accept more than 100 pennies towards the payment of a debt or obligation.
Status: False.
Origins: This
is one of the pieces of misinformation that makes me wish web sites like this one had been around when I was a kid so I have could pointed my father toward it and told him to shut up already. I can't recall how many times he solemnly intoned that "Pennies are not legal tender in quantities greater than 100" and therefore merchants were "legally" allowed to refuse any offer of payment that included more than one hundred one-cent coins (and, presumably, could not "legally" refuse payment offered in any other form of legal tender). As with so many other things he was dead wrong (and I knew it even then), but I had no way of proving him wrong. I can now, though.
Title 31 (Money and Finance), Subtitle IV (Money), Chapter 51 (Coins and Currency), Subchapter I (Monetary System), Section 5103 (Legal Tender) of the United States Code states:
United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts.
What this statute means, in the words of the United States Treasury, is that "[A]ll United States money . . . is a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal law mandating that a person or organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services."
That's it. All this means is that the Federal Reserve System must honor U.S. currency and coins, not necessarily anyone else. U.S. currency and coins can be used for making payments, but a debtor does not have to pay in legal tender, nor does a creditor have to accept legal tender. If a shoemaker wants to sell his products for 8000 jelly beans per pair, he's entitled to do so; the buyer cannot demand that he accept the equivalent value in legal tender instead. However, legal tender is the default method of payment assumed in contractual agreements involving payments for goods or services unless otherwise specified. So, for example, if an automobile dealer signs a contract agreeing to sell you a car for $8,000, but when you begin making monthly payments he rejects them and insists he wants to be paid in gold instead, you can go to court and have your debt discharged on the grounds that valid payment was offered and refused.
Up until the late 19th century, pennies and nickels weren't legal tender at all. The Coinage Acts of 1873 and 1879 made them legal tender for debts up to 25 cents only, while the other fractional coins (dimes, quarters, and half dollars) were legal tender for amounts up to $10. This remained the law until the Coinage Act of 1965 specified that all U.S. coins are legal tender in any amount. However, even in cases where legal tender has been agreed to as a form of payment, private businesses are still free to specify which forms of legal tender they will accept. If a restaurant doesn't want to take any currency larger than $20 bills, or they don't want to take pennies at all, or they want to be paid in nothing but dimes, they're entitled to do so (but, as mentioned earlier, they should specify their payment policies before entering into transactions with buyers). Businesses are free to accept or reject pennies as they see fit; no law specifies that pennies cease to be considered legal tender when proffered in quantities over a particular amount.
When you get a PD you may get a private attorney that is doing pro-bono work. I think most state BAR's require any member of the BAR to do X number of pro-bono cases.
Hi Kris,
Yeah that's me. How's it going, man?
Drop me a line in my public web e-mail box @yahoo.com, I'm looking forward to catching up with you.
My account there is mfhughes.
See ya.
The dangers of knowledge trigger emotional distress in human beings.
Rock the vote, huh? Fascinating. Ok, then, Mr. Democracy, enlighten us with your overflowing wisdom - WHO ARE WE SUPPOSED TO VOTE FOR?
It is a given that the two primary candidates are going to be sold body and soul to big business and party politics. So that leaves the independents. The independents have NEVER won any major political victory, outside of maybe the occasional House seat, and their power would be from nil to zero.
What's that? Have more people vote? Have more people educated and make good choices? What're you smoking, buddy? Good social education has long been written off as "unamerican", and people have stopped voting out of apathy, ignorance, and boredom. In order for voting to mean something, citizens must understand the value of their freedom. And the new generation does not have anyone to teach them about civic virtue. And without that civic virtue, your ROCK THE VOTE won't amount to shit. Those that do vote are worshipping a dead god of party politics, and think they are supporting the "american way" The tiny minority trying to change something look pathetic. And unless you suddenly get the rest of the population drunk on things like Truth, Beauty, Civil Duty, and Education, that's exactly the way things are going to remain. Sorry buddy. And hey! Rock on!
Instead, how about advertising a day in which everyone goes out and purchases one CD by a non-RIAA backed artist? Get stores to cooperate by posting lists of local bands' CDs carried in the stores. It would be "We support the artist" and "We donkey punch the RIAA" at the same time.
Libertarians somehow believe that private businesses should be stronger than governments but weaker than individuals.
If you want to watch for yourself (I did after reading the above), there is a copy of the film available, along with other related items, here:
http://www.noage.com/jfknetwork/zap.htm
What's it going to take for you guys to kick out the lobby favorable senators/congress/whatever? 'cause the fact is that this is not the first implausible thing you guys would have done that needs doin'
To an extent, I do have sympathy for this person. However, I don't agree to donate money to him. He and his father made a choice to settle, with all that entails. If they didn't want to shell out his life's savings, they could have contacted the American Civil Liberties Union, the Electronic Frontier Foundation, and/or Public Citizen, to name a few. Asking the public to recoup their losses from a choice that they made is troublesome. I am fairly sure that most Slashdot commenters would have been far more willing to contribute to his legal defense costs.
Eastern Washington which is rural and Republican balked at statewide taxes for a desperately needed transportation package. Whether the one that eventually passed was any good is another question...
Anyways, they didn't want *their* money being used to fix "Seattle's problems."
In fact, some proposed that transportation taxes should be required to be spent in the county they were raised in. Then they kind of went quiet.
They probably found out that Seattle/Puget Sound was heavily subsidizing transportation throughout the state and they'd be *fucked* if they had to cope with the meager dollars raised in their own counties.
The Blue States are subsidizing the Red States. Which people are more likely to complain about those "welfare queens"?
Swindling honest folk out from their last dollar. Down with the RIAA - fucking shekel guzzlers.
I just got back from Blockbuster with âoeCatch me if you canâ. It seems to be the most popular movie so far. I'm in the process of burning about 18 copies to dual VCD jewel cases (3 so far) and am working on a nicely ripped case cover I snagged from amazon ala my desk-jet. The question is, where is the best place to distribute these? I'm thinking I'll leave one here on the subway seat, another there on a bathroom counter, another as a tip for a waitress ( assuming bad service ). Doing this makes me feel better, but imagine how much better we'd all feel if everyone burned and distro'd a few popular movies?
IMO, the irony in these types of cases is that you have a large special interest group suing people with relatively little resources. Usually it's the other way around, someone is suing someone else who has deep pockets and can afford to pay.
I can't see how the RIAA actually thinks this strategy will produce increased revenue in the long run. If they think all those downloaders are going to magically purchase all those songs, we all know they are kidding themselves. I figure at best, their revenue stays about the same. At worst, it creates enough bad publicity to hurt sales.
Microsoft may be the ones to trigger it, too.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
He'll lose 12 grand *again*!
my karma will be here long after I'm gone
In theory you are right, but the case of the poll tax proved you wrong. This was one of those "written in stone" thing that you couldn't go to a judge in order to have it changed, yet the English people fought it until it got changed...
For having lived in both system (common law and written law) I am still undecided which system is the best. They both have advantages, and cons.
One of the big advantage of the written law is that the little guy can go to the big guy with the book and say: "Look this is what's written". In countries with written laws, typically there are books for the little guy with all the explanation in plain language of what the law actually means. This is way easier to know what one is entitled to etc... rather than having to always resort to a lawyer, which might be wrong since in the end only do the judge decides.
I don't believe this is real.
It is more cost-effective to make an example of someone by hiring an actor to fake it. No teams of lawyers to pay... no court documents to swear to.
What better way to fan the flames of urban legend than to create your own cautionary tale?
OK. I've decided that I'm no longer buying anymore music which will provide revenue for RIAA. Here's the catch: how does one tell if music you buy will eventually contribute to the RIAA's funds?
If Save Karyn can raise $20k over stupidity i'm sure the geek community can raise $12k to fight the RIAA
No doubt the RIAA singled him (as well as three others) out because he ran the search engine, but I think the stronger legal threat came from the direct infringement charges. So, settling probably was the best option. People always say we should blame the pirates, not the technology providers, but he was doing both.
If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
Why this guy? Lots of other universities have software to make searching the network shares easier. Also, the RIAA should go after MS Windows because microsoft has been providing the ability to search network shares for years.
1) Press the Windows key + F
2) Search for files of this format: *.mp3
3) Look in: \\magenta or whatever you network share is named
Isn't this the same story from a month or 2 ago?
Dan
That no one stepped forward to offer pro bono representation for this kid. This is certainly a high-profile case that could have been won.
Send them a check? Very primitive...
Just go to Musiclink (formerly Fairtunes) and they will take care of it for you...
"Never cost anyone more money that it cost for them to have you killed..."
I wonder what the prices on the RIAA's executive's heads are these days?
Got the addresses of the hilary Rosen etc. I feel like breaking in and stealing back all the ill-gotten gains they have. Be like a modern Robin Hood.
But Seriously he should have denied it and gone to court. If he lost he could claim he has no money like the people ion the McLibel case.
-- Karma Karma Karma Karma, Karma Chameleon - Boy George
I wonder if the RIAA will be suing this MP3 search engine any time soon ? http://uk.altavista.com/audio/default
.... in which you have to stand up and be counted.
That includes lawyers with principles.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
Just to clarify as an RPI alum, RPI is not a University,it doesnt have enough schools to do so.
People of the stature of Nelson Mandela and many others don't grow in trees.
IANAL but write like a drunk one.
C'mon, folks- thoughts? Ideas? i'm going to do a journal entry on this so it doesn't just get archived away into closed-conversation...
"I'd say 'Have a good time,' but arson is still illegal.
Anyone from RPI knows about the 'Tute Screw. As parent said, RPI has, at best, a love-hate relationship with its students.
Oh - and just what is a Tute Screw? I have yet to see one, but it describes the general approach of the administration to the students - no matter which way you turn it, it always goes in...
That's my purse! I don't know you! -- Bobby Hill
The one for this claim is probably covered by a very thick NDA, but generally as part of any settlement, the written agreement is a contract that offers the plaintiff money in consideration for an agreement to discharge any and all claims [arising out of these circumstances] against the defendant now and forever.
As far as I know, in the absence of fraud, duress or undue influence, he can win the lottery tomorrow, end up a million dollars richer, and there's nothing the RIAA could do about it.
That's my purse! I don't know you! -- Bobby Hill
I better use up the rest of my monthly limit by downloading more songs that I will never listen to to fill my 20gig HD, so I will have to buy a 200G HD.
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
The boy did no wrongdoing, he simply created a search engine. Why should he be responsible for the way it was used by others?
Somehow I doubt the sincerety of your "open tetter" and your willingness to follow through. A posturing slashdot comment, even when moderated to 5, does not a challenge make and I have a suspicion that it is not only RIAA who is "a sham" and "full of shit".
On the other hand, I could be totally wrong about you (it happens) so here's what I suggest:
Go ahead and set yourself up to get sued by RIAA for a similar offence.
I don't know your university's policies about setting up a file indexing server on their network but that could be a first step.
If you succeed in baiting RIAA (supporting evidence will be required), you'll get the following from me:
A posted apology in the slashdot thread(s) of your choosing,
A case of beer (or the monetary equivalent, should the shipping prove to be too cumbersome), and
A contribution to your legal defence fund, should you open one.
Drop a note in my journal when you're ready to collect. Otherwise... Well, you're smart, figure it out.
The ACLU is a total joke now. They have become a bunch of hyperactive politically correct berserkers. Look at their recent record for who's cases they took up. They have an agenda to fulfill, and protecting citizens from money hungry corperations and their lawyers is not part of that agenda