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Corporate Work in the US vs. Canada?
No One You Know asks: "I've been working as a sysadmin for an insurance company in the US for the past six years, and have decided to move to Canada. I've had it with corporate America, but I'm trying to keep an open mind while job hunting. How does Canadian corporate life compare to that of the US?"
...you'd better like back bacon. That's all I should have to tell you.
Carousel is a lie!
Can you just move to Canada... like that? Don't you need a work visa or something?
...same as the old boss. Corporate life in Ireland, Germany, Holland, France and here in the US is the same, mostly. I've work at least one year in each of those countries, for local and American corporations. Varying degrees of formality and autonomy, but basically the same crap in different languages.
Posting anonymously for obvious reasons. It's not too bad, but still Dilbert-like. The people I talk to on the phone from here are much more laid back than the Americans, though.
everyone has square heads and rides on bicycles with square wheels!
they have those guys with the red jacket on top of a horse..
That must change things a lot
Corporate culture varies by company, everywhere in the world. In Canada, I've worked with 'old' business corporate culture and more relaxed corporate culture.
Internationally, I've found much the same thing. It's a matter of the company's history, the people who invest in it/own it, the people who are there.
What a dumb thing to Ask Slashdot.
Except for pea-soup-eating separatists, the annoying weather, the sports teams that never win, (go calgary), 90cents a Litre Gas, and 15% Sales Tax!
But we do have Beer!!
People don't speak so loudly. [ducks]
Drill baby drill - on Mars
The job may still be bad, but at least you get paid less.
Why do I live in Canada again?
... Tim Hortons
People are not nearly so uptight as in the US. Gor crying out loud, we had an office party here for Christmas and everyone got a drunk — those who didn't still sang and danced and had a good time. Contrast this with my experience with typical American office parties where they order some bland catered food, sip on mineral water and itch at their cotton-polyester blend polo shirts waiting to go home so they can work some more.
There's much more of an "open collar" atmosphere in Canada. Everyone trusts everyone else, we're all ready to get to know one another, and we certainly don't stay uptight after the regional manager has ended his visit to our office. Working in Canada is much less conducive to heart attacks.
BLING BLING. Meet the architecture that's changing everything.
It's basically the same, except you get paid less and you're taxed more. Also, instead of the company providing health insurance, you get state-provided health care that is roughly about as good as health care in Uganda.
I have no idea if this is actually a difference, but I definitely find that IT workers here (in Toronto) are not one bit concerned about outsourcing..
/.
Of course, I have no idea if the general IT population in the states are either, or if it's just especially strong here on
Many of the companies in Canada are just counterparts to American companies. Specifically I'm referring to MNCs (multi-national corps). However, the environment is a little more easy going unless they are a division of an American company at which point that can be more difficult to work for. I've worked in the past with Canadian divisions of an MNC and this was usually the case. Smaller companies are still the way to go. You might want to look into a Canada based insurance company since you have some experience in a similar environment.
GeneralKael -- Slacker Extraordinaire
How is the outsourcing situation there?
Prepare to get raped by taxes.
and we call ourselves free, although we spend what little time we have on this planet working, weird species
With American companies, the day they hire you they are trying to figure out how to lay you off. The reality is, we're all independent contractors (easier to limit the unions).
Intelligent is to conservative as goat is to parking meter.
Move Here. and Look for work Here.
Cananda is not the 51st state and moving there isn't like moving to North Dakota.
If you are unhappy with corporate life in the US, get out of corporate life, not the US. Insurance is one of those industries dominated very large companies. Lots of rules, regulations and PHB. Go find a (stable, profitable, non-high tech) company with 80 - 200 employees. It is a whole 'nother world working for a small to midsized company.
Do I sound bitter? Well... maybe I am, just a touch.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
My job was outsourced, so now I'm moving, does anyone know of any openings in Canada ?
Well we already have your TV channels and some province in far east wants to separate. On the other hand I don't know if there is any differences in the corporate world. If you want to call in sick be ready to Fedex in your first born and 8 hour days still apply (lunch does not count).
go ahead , im sick of hearing about fair weathered americans who are moving to "better" places like canada.
ok... that's really lame... but i find it really really funny
Do you know how to speak Canadian? It's like English, but some people speak French. I think it's because they are under the impression that they are in France. This impression is wrong. They are in Canada!
Canadian-French is to French as Ebonics is to English
Casual Games/Downloads
Barring tax laws and perhaps a slightly more liberal outlook on life, the corporate environment is exactly the same in both countries. "Eat or be eaten".
No joke ... the Canadian dollar is NOT strong against the U.S. dollar right now. Be prepared for your lower salary to not stretch as far as you'd like it to.
Conversely, it seems like a great time to live in Canada if you can get paid in U.S. dollars by an American company...
Breakfast served all day!
Hope you don't mind permanent hat hair.
This is not true. Canada and the US have an agreement that Canadians entering the US and Americans entering Canada are still subject to the draft of either country.
The ever-popular "dodge the draft by fleeing to Canada" no longer works.
Proudly supporting the Libertarian Party.
& better beer.
A bit more polite and you get to stay under the nuclear umbrella!
No its not like the USA in terms of B2B you drive out of the city and there is farms for hundreds of kilometers. So B2B and interoffice operations are much different. Not to mention the weather or the difference in population. These things have an effect on new job openings that the USA simply does not have.
There are other places to find work besides a corporation. What is your problem?
So... eh?
You will find the same exact politics and frustrations at a Canadian company that you find at an American company. The only benefit to working in Canada is a different level of social responsiblity, less personal independance accross the board and, of course, much better beer. Mean people are mean people whether they live in CAN or the US. Bad management is ubiquitous to the World. They do put a bit more effort into their breakfast pastries, however. The girls are easier to fool, and, perhaps the most important is that you find its really cold.
Don't forget that you CANadian is pretty much an ameriCAN.
You will probably make less and are paid in Canadian dollars, so that 60K a year isn't as nice as it sounds. You will also pay higher taxes. But, you also gain free health care as well and have more public facilitties. Also, you can take pride in the fact that your tax dollars don't go to humiliating and tortuing Iraqi POW's.
Also, it's really, really, really cold in Canada. Hope you like Hockey! Keep in mind, your boss will still suck.
"If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer
I'm sorry to say that you won't find the corporate life all that different. What you will find different (authority: i have worked in the usa and now live in canada) is in canada people don't care as much if you smoke weed or not and think your health care should be free. there's arguably less racism in canada, but a friend of mine once said "at least in the USA they'll be racist to your face". I do believe canadians are less xenophobic, though.
YMMV
..Maple Walnut Dip
Check out Mon and Mon.cgi
Generally, variability within different U.S. companies (corporate culture and procedures) is greater than that between the U.S. and Canada (or the U.K., or Australia), so it depends on where you wind up.
If you visit the OP's website, it appears to be more or less a fansite for Canada.. :)
Uh, I make a six figure income, and my tax rate is around 35%. Yes, every dollar I make over $110,000 is taxed at 50%, but the first $7000 I pay no tax, and the tax rate increases from there. Taxes aren't much worse than California.
First few weeks are difficult, but people have a lot of patience if you are seriously interested in learning thier language.
In a few years you will find that you have not only become bi-ligual, but bi-cultural, you will be able to switch between different ways of thinking, frankly it really broadens then mind.
Then, who knows, next stop Europe! If nothing else it is a great thing on your CV!
And if you thought that was boring you obviously havn't read my Journal ;-)
Anne Murray, Gordon Lightfoot and Rush!
It works like this: you get paid less and taxed more.
In exchange it costs slightly less to live and hostpitals won't turn you away.
You will find things tend to appear more casual on the west coast (ie. Vancouver) but to call it 'laid back' would be incorrect. Some of the most competitive positions I have held were there. However, dress code tends to be casual. I would compare Vancouver with Seattle - climate is similar, and so is most of the corporate culture.
The other tech-hub, Toronto, is very similar to most larger US cities and other than subleties, you will find little difference. Both places boast dynamic and competitive markets, and the cost of living is somewhat comparable. (moderately high)
I just heard some sad news on talk radio - Actor Fatty Arbuckle was found dead in his New York home this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his work, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture. Truly an American icon.
Since they came here to work.
Now they are doing their best just to stay employed and remain in the US...
Every sentance ends with an "eh?"
Fat geeks in Parkas look just as big as skinny geeks in Parkas.. Girls you meet will never know until you get them back to your igloo.
Time travel is possible. We are quickly heading for 1984.
Funny you would compare it to California, which is one of the highest (if not the highest) in the US ;)
Under capitalism man exploits man. Under communism it's the other way around.
A "War on Terror" American probably wouldn't move to Canada, unless required to by his job.
I can't speak for everyone, but I get paid more than my counter parts in the USA (and I can compare directly, as I am in a services company with employees in the US too). My income taxes are about equal, although sales taxes are higher. Finally, our health care is no worse or better than that in the USA, and costs half as much per person to run.
That doesn't sound like the Canada I work in.
Healthcare greatly varys from province to province. Its not national, its provinical.
God, root, what is the difference?
"Stay the hell away from my dam or I'll shoot!"
Don't forget the 7% GST on everything and your provincial sales tax too
What are you talking about? Maybe the media source I've seen are biased, but allegedly Canada has more guns per capita than the US does. Of course, this is probably mostly rural folk who have a lot of rifles and shotguns. When you say "guns", do you actually mean "handguns"?
To quote South Park:
Dey took are juubbs....
Can I get an eye poke?
Dog House Forum
In the US. Thats where it stays.
-Imidazole2
Slightly off topic, I suppose, but you know that the unemployment rate in Canada is currently higher (7.3% April 2004) than the US unemployment rate (5.6% April 2004), right?
And you're a Canadian citizen or have compelling reason to believe that you'll be offered a work visa (personal connections, obscure and valuable skills)?
* * *
It is a dada story -- it has no moral.
I never worry about my office building/city/town getting targeted by terrorists. That's not to say it won't ever happen, but when was the last time you heard anyone say, "Let's get those damn Canadians"?
Of course, those are CANADIAN dollars. (Today, up to 72 cents!)
Heck, it's a lovely country! I'd emigrate except for the toilet paper money and their barbaric gun laws.
Full disclosure: I live in Texas.
Carthago delenda est!
I would say its much harder to get a job, but the people are pretty nice. I would say you'll deal with the most crap in Quebec. Its hard to set things up as the burecracy is huge.
If you've got a job, go for it! You'll pay more in taxes than the states, but you'll have a good quality of life.
This does not make sens, its worst then the chewbacca defense, it does not make sens, why would a wooky live on endor you say? For no reason at all, this does not make sens!
So 9/11 was all the fault of the gun control lobby and the communists? Anybody else you'd like to blame while you're at it? How about the Jews?
Drill baby drill - on Mars
Canadian born and educated
moved to the US 10 years ago after finishing my PhD
worked in the US and Canada as a developer/intern, and in the US as a professor and executive
Bias: as a child, I was always an American-wanna-be My opinion: Canada and the US are very similar: It is wisely said that Canadians are polite, unarmed Americans, with health care. However, there are interesting differences:
- Canadians are more "conservative", in the small-c sense of danger-aversion. Canadians by and large will accept an average lower standard of living in exchange for a lower risk of catastrophe. This shows up in substantially lower wages for technical staff, but with a substantially higher standard of living for those supported by the social safety net.
- There is much less entreprenure-ship in Canada. Go to Canada if you like large companies, because there are a lot fewer start-ups.
- Republican bullshit not withstanding, the Canadian single-payer health care system works better than anything I have ever seen in the US.
- Canadians are generally more reasonable and less excitable than Americans. Conversely, Canadians are a lot less exciting than Americans. A Canadian radio station once ran a contest to pick a saying analogous to "As American as apple pie." The winner was "As Canadian as possible, under the circumstances."
A lot of Canadians have a very poor opinion of the quality of life in the US. I submit that this is because a substantial plurality of Canadians actually live in Southern Ontario, between Buffalo and Detroit. If all you ever heard of the US was that North Tonowanda was burning again, what would you think?Crispin
----
Crispin Cowan, Ph.D.
CTO, Immunix Inc.
"Hope you don't like guns, because Canada is rabbidly anti-gun."
Um...actually, this is very much a nation of hunters. There are LOTS of guns up here. I think the statistic is that there are around 10,000,000 households, and 7,000,000 guns.
Robert B. Marks
Author, Demonsbane in Diablo Archive
Myth. That is simply not true. Canada's health care system is no worse, but also no better than that of the USA.
That seems like a very drastic action just because you don't like your job. How's this for an open mind: there are companies in America that aren't necessarily like in others in "Corporate America".
I heard he was found in bed with his erect penis shoved into the arse of now-deceased horror writer, Stephen King, 55.
It depends largely on where you end up. The west coast has a reputation for being laid back. Toronto is the hub and seems quite a bit more formal. I am always shocked by how over dressed IT people from Toronto seem. Here in Vancouver I work for a financial institution and almost everyone dresses casually. I imagine that that Quebec and the Maritimes also have quite casual corporate environments, especially when compared to the US.
I think you will find Canadians more reserved in corporate life or outside of it.
It's true. The last guy I saw brandishing a gun got stabbed. Fortunately, we were able to keep the bleeding in check with hockey tape and Tim Horton's muffins. Then it was just a matter of keeping him calm (medicinal marijuana) until his free medical care arrived via dogsled.
Drill baby drill - on Mars
..found out about stress leave this visit. If HR comes to fire you, all you have to do is freak out and say you are stressed and they can't fire you. Amazing.
As a job hunting System Admin. in Toronto, I can tell you the job market is pretty crappy. Unless you already have a job lined up, don't hold your breath for a sysadmin position.
You should also note that jobs in Canada are much more political than jobs in the U.S. Office politics plays a bigger role, and you better be good at the game to get anywhere.
Honestly, I can't see how moving from one country to another in the same basic job is going to be that much different. Perhaps it's time to look at what you're doing for a living?
Same shit more tax...
In Canada, they don't really use computers. They only have one industry, well two if you want to seperate them, but those are creating snow and creating cold. You see, they just sit up there in their cold factories creating snow all day and then they turn on their giant fans and blow it into places like Wisconsin, etc. They take great pride in this however, because without them people like me might actually be able to walk around more than 4 months out of the year without being wrapped in 5 shirts, a coat, an under-coat, 3 hats, gloves with mittins over them, 5 pairs of socks, furry boots and 15 scarfs wrapped around my entire body. Hey Canada, thanks a lot!
"If you are a dreamer, a wisher, a liar, A hope-er, a pray-er, a magic bean buyer
That is not a troll, I'm sorry. Asshole mods abound.
occultae nullus est respectus musicae - originally a Greek proverb
Isn't it hard as hell to emmigrate to Canada?
There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
Make sure to write all scripts in English and French.
Watch out for excessive use of the letter 'O', could label you as a US citizen (or the more popular and quite incorrect American).
...we could've used your vote.
LilMikey.com... I'll stop doing it when you sto
You'll pay more taxes, but support fewer wars.
It's up to you to decide which is more important.
I can understand your (mostly WRONG) attitudes towards Canada, since you were actually raised in a different country.
;-)
That's the point though - Canada is a different country than the US - Canada is not USA-Lite. I don't mind the things you're railing against, since I've decided to accept them as the price of having my country the way it is - which is the country I love. If the poster is willing to accept that things will be different here, he'll come to love his new country, too.
BTW, try some of the establishments on St. Catherine street in Vieux Montréal - the ladies there will change your mind about Quebecers being unfriendly.
Soko
"Depression is merely anger without enthusiasm." - Anonymous
Last I saw (it may have been adjusted) canada was #2 in healthcare while the US was in the 30s
Hi my name is Noah I'm calling to promote my computer services company IT Goes Click, does your company use computers in you day to day operations?
Well you're expected to be a lot more polite about everything that's not just a myth and if you're not polite expect to have a polite awakening to your assishness
Corporations and employees are immeasurably more loyal to one another up here than down there
There's lots of great holidays and excuses not to work.
You don't need a benefits plan at work to have great medical coverage
Your co-workers are now your friends not your competition and your job is now your job not self promotion disguised as a job.
Incompetence and mistakes are rewarded with a kick in the butt not a promotion
Everything is far less Political Correct except when dealing with the French or Natives.
And remember when any product or service is in review it's not new is better it's
1. If it's new it's bad
2. If it's old it's probably also bad
3. If it's foreign it's bad
4. If it's American it's foreign
5. If it's cheap it's probably foreign and or new
6. If it's expensive it's probably American or German see #4
7. If it claims to work it'd better do it, unless it was cheap
8. It'd better have French labels on it
9. If it doesn't work or doesn't have French labels on it, use it to make a donation to an American charity.
CTJ.org has some pretty interesting statistics on taxation here in the US.
Check it out.
The grass isn't always greener my friend. If it's corporate BS you're looking to avoid, you don't need to find a new country. You need to find a new (noncorporate) job.
.. but there is no canadian corporate structure, it's all american companies anyways and aside from being a little more lenient towards watching the playoffs instead of working I've noticed nothing different.
Corporations are an entity unto themselves, I don't think country plays a part.
This P.I.G. will walk on the water, This P.I.G. will walk on the sea, This P.I.G. will walk whereever he wants.
No selective service and no draft in Canada. There was conscription at the end of World War 2 (you know, the one that started in 1939), but it divided the country.
---
Book(n): Utensil used to pass time while waiting for the TV repairman
As a Canadian who's currently working in another country (Japan), I'll tell you that's it's not the only corporate culture you should be considering when you think about the move. Sure, in Canada (depending on where you live!) you won't have much of a language problem (Eh!) as you would moving to another country. BUT:
... harder to get rich because the goverment will pull a Robin Hood on you).
1. Keep in mind that taxes in Canada are WAY higher than in the U.S.
2. Canadians in general are poorer than their American counterparts, meaning less money to spend on luxury items like nice cars, etc. (largely related to the tax thing
3. Corporate culture will vary a LOT depending on the company. I worked for 5 different companies while I was still living back home, and let me tell you they varied A LOT, from very relaxed places to very high pressure atmospheres.
4. You will be a foreigner in our land. You'll have to get a visa and do all that immigration crap.
But hey, I really like Canada, and when I visit my home country versus visiting the States, I really notice the difference in the culture between the two countries. Canadians are definetly friendlier and more relaxed than Americans (except for New England, what a friendly place!), and I think that's much easier to tell after you spend a few years away. Great country, and I definetly will move back there someday.
Bullshit.
... but it sounds as though you've been buying the propaganda about the Canadian healthcare system.
... and that was a walk-in without an appointment.
I don't know if you're American, Canadian, or from some little island in the Pacific
Yes, it's been in better shape. But it's not as bad as some people (mostly those in the US who are trying to justify their system over ours) makes it out to be.
First: everyone is guaranteed basic health care. Regardless of whether the company you work for has a health plan or not. Compare and contrast to your healthcare system.
Second: The wait times are usually not as long as people make them out to be. My father recently decided to undergo surgery to alleviate some trouble he's been having lately. How long did he wait between making the decision and having the surgery? 2 weeks. Is my family going to be out $25,000? Nope. Covered.
Popped into the doctor's office the other day - total wait time for me, 20 mins
And I've never heard of Canadians being described as "rabbidly anti-gun" (there are more than a few around here that would take exception to that). We just don't see the need for assault rifles to protect our homes. It's actually a positive thing here.
clearly it was a joke
:-P
what are you, Canadian?
Casual Games/Downloads
I have a friend that is taking some certification courses in Canada and when he finishes, his sights are set for the United States Economy. When I tell him how much I make freelancing, he cannot even begin to imagine it.
DISCLAIMER:
I don't believe what I write, and neither should you.
"Canadian-French is to French as Ebonics is to English"
/. this is bull.
Wow, you definitely need to brush-up on your knowledge of history. Start with the colonial times, and then learn about which countries of Europe went to which regions of the Americas.
Geesh, even for
I work for a software company that has it's corporate headquarter in Montreal and I find working with my Canadian colleaqes to be quite frustrating. Many of the people I work with never even try to figure out a problem themselves before calling and whining. I know this is not indicative of the whole country but I wouldn't doubt if it was of Quebec. And yes even the French can't stand the Canadian francophones.
No Brains, No Headaches
As far as outsourcing, our dollar is cheaper then the US so we become an outsource country. Try Winnipeg, it has about 700000 people and is very cheap to live, is very multicultural and is home to two large insurance companies (Great west life and Wawanesa) and Investors group. I am sure you could find a job here. Did I mention it is cheap to live here. A decent house costs around 100 to 120k for a 2 to 3 bedroom place in a nice area and to rent a place it is aroun 500 to 700 dollars per month. The converse is Toronto which will run upwards from 500thousand to 1millon for a place in central Toronto (or a two hour commute) or 1500 for a small basement suite. Trust me Winnipeg is not that bad. And by the way our English is slighly different Eh!!!
If you're looking for an interesting way to see what cubicles are like in other countries, by all means this is for you. Otherwise, like he said, it's all the same.
--
the strongest word is still the word "free"
I thought Canadians have a much higher gun per capita ratio than the US. Isn't that correct? Also, in the US you'll never be turned away for emergency health care, although you may have to wait in line, get worse service and will be charged for it.
Several years ago I got a job offer from a Canadian software company without any interview. I decided to take a look at their office before accepting their offer.
There were a ton of Dilbert cartoons posted on almost every cubicle wall. The big boss in charge of engineering was a big sexy woman in a rather flashy red dress. I was pretty sure she was not trying to charm the lowly engineers. All engineers I talked to were very timid. It was during the peak of high tech boom, all American engineers I met at that time were beaming with undeserved confidence. But those Canadian engineers didn't have any spirit whatsoever. Enough to say I lost any interest moving up there since then.
Just realize you will be paying 50+ percent of your income to the Fed,
Income tax is based on different levels of income, and while it is fairly high, it's not 50%. You also have to consider other things, like when we get sick, it's paid for, instead of coming directly out of our salary.
will have subpar healthcare (but it is universal)
I'm not sure the health care is really any worse than in the US. At least you don't have to be rich to get health care.
since it is so difficult to fire and hire people
There are laws that protect people from being fired for no reason, if that's what you mean. It's not very hard to hire someone at all.
the Canadians LOVE red tape
As a Canadian, no we don't. Though our politicians sure do..
most people take there jobs WAAAAYY to seriously.
I don't know where you get this from?
Oh and don't forget the French, those whacky French speaking Canadians make the real French seem practically friendly.
I won't directly respond to this point.. but I will say something that you probably won't even relate.
Our media isn't QUITE as sensational as American media. I think people can make up their own minds on who they hate and why..
Speak before you think
Wow, you need to brush-up on your knowledge of something called "tongue-in-cheek"
IT'S A FUCKING JOKE YOU IDIOT
Casual Games/Downloads
Um, actually, we all really like guns, we're just not so much into shooting EACH OTHER with them.
I would agree with the sentiment of some of the other folks
By and large though, other that the big corporations, Canada kicks ass!
"Canadian-French is to French as Ebonics is to English"
strange... my friend from France (who speaks English, French, and Spanish) agrees with this statement
Just realize you will be paying 50+ percent of your income to the Fed, ...
... will have subpar healthcare (but it is universal) ...
... and will be lucky to find a decent paying job.
...
... since it is so difficult to fire and hire people.
... being a socialist country the Canadians LOVE red tape and most people take there jobs WAAAAYY to seriously.
.. aren't you something ?
Wrong (it's 1.5-2 times less for 100k salaries)
Wrong in 'subpar' part. And it doesn't cost an arm and a leg as in some countries.
Wrong unless you suck hopelessly. There is a lack of qualified developers and admins as you'd find anywhere. That's qualified professionals, not the ones with interesting resumes.
With all the weird labor laws in Canada most companies hire contractors rather then actual employees,
Wrong unless you are talking about unionized jobs (such as janitors and bus drivers)
Wrong again. Bah, you don't know a bit about things you're talking about.
And be prepared for MORE bueracracy,
Well, you guessed it - Wrong, dude. Canadian bueracracy is NOTHING compared to bueracracy that exists in European and Asian countries and is not much different from US practices.
Hehe
Oh and don't forget the French, those whacky French speaking Canadians make the real French seem practically friendly.
What's this has to do with the move ? Still trying to get over Freedom Fries fever, aren't you ?
Uh, I make a six figure income, and my tax rate is around 35%.
I make CA$82K and my average income-tax rate is 19.7%, taking advantage of the RRSP tax shelter.
Yes, every dollar I make over $110,000 is taxed at 50%
I believe that's more like a 45% or lower marginal tax rate. But, taxes been slowly going down in recent years. Though, if you make a big pile of cash like that, you ought to set up a private, money-losing personal "business".
Also, the federal government anyway operates with a budget surplus, so there isn't likely to be a big tax grab if the government changes in the next election.
How does Canadian corporate life compare to that of the US?
My guess would be that in Canada they pile more shit upon you, because they're safe in the knowledge that you will not crack under pressure and come into the office one day with an Armalite AR-10 and take some 7.62mm Nato justice into your own hands.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
its more of the fact its easier to hide in a foreign country
The worst place to work. The more productive you are the less you get paid. If you a forward thinker, you'll get a backward manager shutting all of your ideas down.
I work in the financial industry. Presently I work for JPMorganChase (you know, the giant freakin bank). Our office parties consist of the company renting out a giant room and having bad catered food AND an open bar. I have worked for a few other major financial institutions (mostly credit-card related), and their parties are the same. I don't know what corporate parties you went to in the US, but I think we know how to party just as much as our friendly maple leaf neighbors up north.
Just like driving a car:
(D) to go forward
(R) to go backward
Binary sucks? I have way too much time on my hands.
!!!
As a Canadian who looked at relocating to California (but didn't, though I flew back and forth for 4 months), I did a fair bit of research into the US/Canada thing.
.com boom) - people are pretty similar, and so are the jobs.
Myth #1 - Taxes are really high.
Reality: not really. You don't pay 50% until you make over $100,000. The average annual tax burden is somewhere around 30-35%. There are provincial and federal sales taxes, however, and you can't write off your mortgage interest. You can, however, put money into a retirement savings plan, and that investment is tax free, and the growth on that investment is also tax free. You pay tax when you withdraw. Also, there are no inheritance taxes in Canada, unlike the US.
Myth #2 - You have to make $80,000 CDN to have the same lifestyle you had on $60,000 US. Depends on where you come from. A friend who worked in California found that if you made $60,000 CDN, you needed to make $60,000 US to have the same lifestyle - the exact opposite. Cars are more expensive in the US, rent is more expenive in parts of the US, etc. And this is compared to Vancouver, one of the most expensive parts of Canada.
Myth #3 - the unemployment rate is higher in Canada
Reality: it's computed differently in Canada vs the US. If people stop looking for jobs in the US (ie they can't find them), then they aren't considered unemployed, whereas they are still counted as unemployed (or perhaps unemployable) in Canada.
Myth #4 - It's tough to get into Canada
Reality: if your young, healthy and wealthy (or well educated), you've got a pretty good shot. We have two Europeans working in our office, and both just became citizens.
Other things to note: health care is essentially free. At worst, you'll pay $100 a month for basic care. Most employers then add extended health and dental. You go to the doctor or dentist you want. None of that HMO crud you see in the US. But because healthcare is public, you have no option of spending more to get better service (ie to use private services). In the US, the more money you are willing to pay, the better the service you will get. But you have to pay the money up front. Families aren't forced into bancrupcy because an uninsured family member comes down with cancer.
If your wife/girfriend gets pregnant, and she was working and paying taxes and employement-insurance-deductions (most everyone does, unless you are self employeed), she can take a year off with partial pay. Alot different than 6 weeks of no pay that you find in the US.
In most parts of Canada, you can find true wilderness an hour or less from where you live.
Expect to see hockey as the national pastime (the national sport is lacrosse, and it's actually pretty popular); forget baseball or basketball unless you live in Toronto. And Vancouver has the 2010 Winter Olympics.
Things aren't as hyper-competitive as they are in the US, and as a result you'll find it a bit less exciting, but a bit more polite; people hold doors, wait their turn, and say "Thank you" (a Canadian TV show did a skit about a Canadian version of Fear Factor, and one of the things a Canadian had to do was to say "No" to a waiter/waitress when asked if their meal is ok - couldn't do it).
On the job front, things seem to be improving quite a bit. Canadians tend to work less than Americans. You are more likely to end up in a union (yuk) but sysadmins are usually only in a union if they work for the government. Someone said that Canadians take their jobs way too seriously. I've found it was exactly the opposite. Overall, I didn't see much difference (and I worked in San Francisco during the
Finally, the beer. The wonderful beer. I've has some great American beer (Pyramid, Fat Tire, ESB) but in general I like Canadian better (Big Rock, Okanagen Springs, Grandville Island, etc).
GST is great if you are your own company. Using the quick method you bill your client 7% but only give 5% to the Government.
With regards to my taxes, I got an accountant and owed the government 15%.
They don't sell beer at gas stations.
And if you ask them why, they'll answer that this is not USA.
This guy must be kidding. Who in the right mind would make such a generalization?
Simpy
I work at the largest cable company in Canada as a programmer/analyst and there is nothing to compare to working in the US.
-People leave at 4:30pm and no one cares about their job.
-Expect a 7.5 hour workday (and get paid that way too).
-Expect to pay 50% marginal tax rate, PLUS 15% tax on everything you buy.
-Free pop? Forget it, feel privileged if you get free
-Bonuses? Ha! All the money is kept at the top, and little gets distributed to regular people.
-Merit increases? Ha! Think 2% a year.
-Expect to see a lot of idiots and assholes working alongside with you because firing people is very hard in Canada. It takes a lot of effort to actually get rid of someone, not like the US, where people can be fired.
-Christmas parties? Ha! I went to the US for a business trip, and the all-hands meetings for the company I was at had better food than our X-mas party
-Booze and such is a no-no because every company is so friggin politically correct that they don't want to be sued.
In the US, more people will care because at least there's a chance that they will become rich. In Canada, everyone is trained to give up at a young age and become corporate drones. In the US, at least there is opportunity, in Canada, there is nothing.
In Canada you will be taxed to death, the medicare system is worse than the typical HMO, and you will wait months for every treatment. Just ask my co-workers whose parents had to wait for cancer treatment and for ultrasounds for gallbladder stones.
... umm, cooler.... really. For example, Winnipeg.
"Consensus" in science is _always_ a political construct.
How to you tell whether the grass really is greener under that 27" of snow?
Granted, American suburban sprawl sucks, but is making the leap of becoming a member of another nation truly worth it? For example, an important question would be: does Canada value freedom and speech in all the same ways as the USA does? I really don't know (not being Canadian), but I do know that the USA is better than Slashdot doomsayers claim it to be.
Perhaps you simply need a career change? No one is forced into 1-hour commutes to a job they hate. How about moving rural, get a low-paying job, and lay back and enjoy life for a while? Buy a cheap john boat and go fishing for a change.
Are you sure it isn't your own idealism that you are chasing and never catching? Do you understand that naive idealism begets misery--in any country in the world?
Vote in November. You won't regret it.
Seriously, if you want to move to Canada just because you do not like corporate America, you gotta be bored out of your fucking mind. I do not know how you feel, but I can imagine because I have had the same thoughts; however, I do not plan on moving anywhere.
There are plenty of companies in the United States that offer excellent benefits and laid back environment. Believe it or not, you can find businesses that offer 100% health and decent dental coverages. You have to know where to look; hint, metrapolitan areas might not be your answer. Look at somewhat rural areas. You might not get a job that pays six figures, but you can score a decent position that does not require a monkey suit and being on call 24x7. Also, you'll get to enjoy less trafic, cheaper housing, more land and maybe you'll learn how to appreciate outdoors. Have you looked at the map of the U.S. lately? Our country is pretty damn large and lifestyle varies from place to place. I hear that some of D.C.'s neighborhoods look like third-world countries; on the other hand, I really enjoyed living in laid-back-not-giving-a-fuck rural area of New England. The choice is up to you.
Canada is better than the United States only if you are piss poor and/or need medical attention everyday (that is, if you cannot afford it). In the United States healthcare is still affordable; dental insurance plance can be better, but we also do get what we pay for. If you do not like something, go ahead and sue :)
Finally, if you think that your Canadian boss is going to be nice(er) to you, you're totally wrong. Businesses are here for making profits and no matter what the owner of the company wants to get the money. If your manager has to ride your ass in order to make you efficient, you won't find a place in any country of the world.
P.S.: Oh, yeah Candians are more polite. Last time I was in Montreal, several girls asked me if I wanted to get laid eventhough I was with my girlfriend.
You're just blaming Canada!
Aboot the same, eh?
I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?
I just heard some sad news on talk radio - Anonymous Coward was found dead in his mother's basement this morning. There weren't any more details. I'm sure everyone in the Slashdot community will miss him - even if you didn't enjoy his trolls, there's no denying his contributions to popular culture. Truly an American icon.
I came to Canada 15 years ago (from the UK) as a computer consultant, loved it, and stayed here in Toronto ever since, except for a few months working in the Boston area of the US. And for what it's worth, I'm married to an American ex-attorney :-)
:-) and someone from San Francisco might miss the hills. A visitor from the South gaped in awe at the mixed-race couples everywhere here in Toronto.
:-) and today it's over 80 degrees with a dry warm breeze. It depends where you live; Toronto is pretty far south, further than most people realise, and we get weather not that much different from new York City. But you could live within the Arctic Circle if you really wanted to :-)
An unpleasant job is unpleasant anywhere. I can't comment on the insurance industry, I don't know about it.
When you're comparing countries, remember that Canada is geographically larger than the US, and has a lot of variation, as of course does the US. A factory worker assembling cars in suburban Detroit might be amazed that the houses in Ontario are not all the same shape
The highest tax rate is indeed 51% but get an accountant: you'll find there are more deductibles that reduce your taxes here, and a rate of around 30% is more common, assuming you are earning more than Cad$60,000/year.
Yes, you'll quite likely be paid less here. But the cost of living is lower. Make sure you get at least the same dollar amount and it shouldn't be too bad.
The healthcare is in fact better than someone commented: my partner has had a lot of health problems, and for some things Canada is much better than the US, for some it's not. In some cases, the Canadian health programme will send you to the US for treatment and cover the cost too, although it's rare. You are much less likely to have doctors trying to sell you on expensive drugs or treatments here, and more likely to find doctors who want to help you.
In much of Canada, at least in the more rural parts, there's much better public transport than you might be used to, depending on which part of the US you're from. It's a symptom of a greater emphasis on community, on the need for everyone to live together and get along, and to respect each other's differences, celebrating diversity. This comes at a cost of a lower emphasis on the individual, especially on the rights of the individual where they might adversely affect the community. Hate speech, for example, is a crime.
It took my husband (yes, we are a gay couple, and yes, we have same-sex marriage here) about 18 months before he stopped saying "Canada is so far behind the US" and started to realise that in fact we're going in a different direction. After a few more years he came to appreciate that direction, and decided to immigrate. I've heard similar stories from others: it can take two or three years to get used to a different way of thinking and to stop judging what you see based on experiences gained in another country.
Canada is far from perfect, but we don't have George Bush, and many of the Americans who move here are dissatisfied with the US in some way, and often relatively left-wing. But you should come and see for yourself.
The Immigration Canada Web site is useful - http://www.cic.gc.ca/ - and will help you get a visa. You can get a NAFTA work permit I think, but you'll need a certified job offer to do that. if you decide to immigrate and then find a job, there's about a year's waiting list and a non-refundable fee.
You could also start reading online papers such as the Glbe and Mail, and depending on where you are planning to go, daily papers like the Globe and Mail.
Oh, and on climate - yes, it gets as cold as Minnisota in the winter at times
I hope this helps.
Oh, one more thing (I know this is already long).. I travel a lot... and always notice when I come home how different the people are in the service industry here. Go and get a meal at a food court in Det
Live barefoot!
free engravings/woodcuts
you go to KK for donuts, so get some coffee while you're there. you go to TH for coffee and mebbe get a snack while you're there...I like donuts, but I *NEED* my coffee...and Tim's is the best...
When all of your wishes have been granted, many of your dreams will be destroyed - Marilyn Manson
Socialidiot, n.
A person who calls a country with public health insurance but otherwise a free-market economy "socialist".
1 - If you're middle class, you are better off in Canada than in the States.
2 - Studies of health outcomes find little difference between Canada and the States. When comparing heart attacks, I think you're a little better off in the States. When comparing infant mortality, you're better off in Canada.
The remark about Uganda shows that you are a complete troll or are completely ignorant. I'm reporting you to the Senate Committee on Un-Canadian Activities.
You will experience extreme employment bliss.
You will be paid a generous living wage with numerous bonuses, tips and spiffs simply for maintaining par performance!
You will have complete health, dental, disability, and mental insurance which will include such perks as liposuction, colored contact lenses and hair implants among others!
You will enjoy 26 weeks of paid vacation!
Paid transportation to and from work on clean, safe and efficient public transportation staffed with friendly, uniformed personnel!
Luxury employee housing located minutes from publicly supported cultural attractions, enviromentally friendly parks and multi-cultutural diverse restaurants!
A company cafeteria serving healthy vegatarian fare with continuous service throughout the day!
A four hour work day and 3 day work week!
Foot rubs! Foosball! Employee picnics and activities! Dating service!
Get real! Work anywhere else is no different and no number of generalities, suppositions and stereotypes will change anything.
It sounds like you need to change companies and your current location before deciding the grass is indeed greener on the other side.
Cheers,
Heard of WTO, NAFTA and all the other things that make life easy for corps?
Well that will follow you up there so rather than move, stay and fight, you will get better results in life sticking to rather than running from.
How you may ask? Create your own company and see if you can run it the way you think things should be and still make a profit
"If any question why we died, Tell them because our fathers lied."
lower wages
colder weather
better beer
affordable healthcare
fewer people
better manners
government just as frustrating as anywhere else
licet differant, aequabitur
I moved here from Russia and had a choice between Canada, States, Germany, Ireland, South Africa (yeah yeah I know), Australia and New Zeland, which comprise the list of countries where I could move for under 10K of fees and 1-2 years of time. Canada had by far the most stream-lined immigration process (not that it was a decisive factor). Have a look here for details.
And you didn't kick his ass?? What's wrong with you? Besides what you're describing isn't that out of the ordinary for small US companies either.
From the CIA World Factbook
Everybody's a libertarian 'till their neighbour's becomes a crack house.
You mean canada isn't part of the US? I thought for sure they would have applied for statehood by now.
Or do you already have a job offer that will get you a visa? Canada, like the US, is NOT open access. Forigeners have to get permission to work there, even Americans. So before you cast in with both feet, make sure that you are actually going to be able to get work there. I'm not saying it's majorly difficult, but don't take it for granted. It IS a foriegn country.
mike moore.
At least you don't have to be rich to get health care.
I have to take issue with this claptrap. I pay $70/mo for a private PPO plan( much better than HMO )with Blue Cross. This is not bad at all. I am sick of people whining about the cost of health insurance and making ridiculous claims that you have to be "rick" to afford it. $70/mo isn't even enough to pay for a used Honda Civic.
Try this:
- Don't smoke.
- Don't overeat to the point of weighing 300lbs.
- Don't marry some bitch who expects you to impregnate her.
If you are high-risk on account of YOUR OWN CHOICES, you deserve high rates.
FYI: I've spent 5 years studying the evolution of the Canadian dialects of English and French.
It's odd the English and French show so much hostility based on Language, when the French are largley responsible for the evolution of the language to what it is today.
So, there you have it... the French language was re-created in France after the revolution.More:
English French
You just have to beware of "ootsourcing."
taken! (by Davidleeroth) Thanks Bingo Foo!
We earn less, generally work less (more emphasis on family life), have universal healthcare that is not bad if used correctly and we also pay less for most of life necessities.
Electric bills are the lowest in the americas if not the world (in Quebec anyway, dunno 'bout the other provinces).
Rent is cheap: a two bedroom apartment in Montreal can be rented anywhere between 450 (dump) and 1000 (nice in a nice neighbourhood) canadian per month.
Culturally speaking, Montreal is great. Great good, great intertainment. You can even learn to speak french, if you're so enclined...
All in all, a pretty good life
The software systems that most of the large insurance companies use are crap. I won't mention the companies by name, so its possible that its not one that you worked for. But my friend had to navigate through five different programs to find the correct benifits for a customer and that ws the best place that he worked at. Its really shocking how some corperations will put up with truly crappy software. The productivity gains that could be made would far out way the cost.
Well.. maybe. Or Maybe not. But Definitely not sort of.
It's aboot the same up there, but it's pretty cold, eh?
but with higher taxes. I hope you enjoy giving all of your money away...
[FromTheMorning]
Taken from www.languagefairness.org
Inequities between Quebec and the R.O.C
1. According to Census Canada, only 4 % of Canada's population outside the province of Quebec are Francophones.
2. According to the Official Languages Commissioner, the Federal government spends on average $500 million a year on Official Bilingualism; this does not include unforecasted expenses. The cost of official bilingualism is $4 billion per year.(a figure the accuracy of which our federal government has never challenged).
3. Author Scott Reid estimates that since its inception in 1969 Official Bilingualism has added $49 billion to our national debt and a permanent loss to Canadian consumers of $40 billion worth of consumption.
4. The cost of classifying military personnel by language - $50 million annually
5. Translation costs for technical documents for patrol frigate project- $45 million, for tribal class refitting- $26.7 million, for 27 other current projects over $100 million.
6. Cost of the 42 members of the official languages branch doing paperwork at National Defence Headquarters, $1.5 million annually.
7. The cost of Moncton's two-day Francophone Summit - $35 million
8. In the 1999-2000 fiscal year the federal government handed out $62,591,832 in French minority language grants outside the province of Quebec, only $3,341,000 was given in English minority language grants inside the province of Quebec even though there are more English speaking Canadians in Quebec than there are French Canadians outside of Quebec.
9. The Commissioner of Official Languages' department has a staff of 109; 79 (72.4%) are Francophones and 30 (27.5%) are Anglophones. This department is in place to ensure the rights of minority languages. Figures quoted are from 1998.
10. Every province in Canada participates in the reciprocal Medicare program except Quebec. If you visit Quebec this means that your provincial Medicare card is valid for hospital costs only, not doctors' services, for this you must pay cash and get reimbursed by your home province. When Quebec patients come to Ontario hospitals, they only pay $450/day for a bed. It costs the General Hospital $823/day (i.e. Ontario taxpayers subsidize Quebec patients to the tune of $373/day when they come to Ontario hospitals).
11. The federal government controls immigration into every province except Quebec, they have their own Ministry of Immigration.
12. An already cash strapped Canadian Olympic Association was ordered to train Olympic athletes bilingually or lose funding. This came as a result of a Quebec athlete training in Calgary who was unable to receive service in French upon entering the training centre. Former Olympian and present track and field coach Dianne Jones-Konihowski said "this would mean that we would lose even more athletes to England and Australia because funding would be taken from them and used to bilingualize training centres and hire staff".
13. Of the $6.8 million the federal government spent on Canada Day festivities in 2000, $5 million was given to Quebec; contrast this with Ontario, which received $553,900.
14. At the party's two day national council in Laval in April 2000, the Parti Quebecois unanimously voted to remove all Canadian flags from public buildings under provincial control, these include schools, hospitals and city halls.
15. Since 1968 we have had 10 federal elections, in 9 of them we have elected Quebec Francophone or Francophile prime ministers for a total of 31 out of the last 32 years.
16. In 1969 Pierre Trudeau declared Canada officially bilingual and in the process transferred 32,000 public service jobs from Ottawa to Hull, Quebec from 1970 to 1982.
17. Canada is the only nation in the world that does not have its national history museum located in its capital city. In 1989 the Federal government under Brian Mulroney relocated the National Museum of Canadian history from Ottawa to Hull, Quebec. The name was changed to
East of Ontario, people are extremely sociable and close. Southern Ontario is exactly like the Eastern US(not much more to say there), and West of Ontario, are there people there?(kidding)
For the places that I've lived in the West, it's hate or love, if it's not one or the other then you really don't exist in their eyes except if you cross the street, cars will stop alarmingly even if they're not even close to you.
But hey, honestly what you see in a place is what you make of it. Cool people will find cool people and the challenged will find the a*holes.
One thing that is pretty nice about everywhere is that the new generations have almost no bias towards different people, they've learned to dislike people for their individual qualities and not as a group... that's cool in my book.
bla
Whenever I mention to Canadians that I bring people to Canada as a tax haven, they shake their heads in disbelief. After all, Canada has a well deserved reputation for having some of the highest marginal tax rates amongst the OECD countries. What most Canadians do not realize is that Canada has a well established regime of tax sheltering to attract new residents that it does not offer to its indigenous population. With proper pre-immigration tax planning, wealthy individuals can move to Canada and avoid income and capital gain tax on their non-Canadian source income and capital gain producing assets. In addition, since Canada. Does not have an estate tax, it is often considered as a favorable domicile of choice. Furthermore, while Canada does not have an instant citizenship program it does allow those who have been permanent residents for three years to acquire a Canadian passport. Being one of the most treasured travel documents in the world, the Canadian passport provides visa-free travel to most countries and allows the holder to take advantage of the North American Free Trade Agreement to live and work in the United States. Finally, as a result of the recent decline in the Canadian dollar, residents can enjoy an excellent lifestyle with all of the infrastructure of living in the United States at almost two thirds of the cost. In looking at Canada as a possible destination, there are two main considerations; qualifying for permanent residence and tax planning. I will look at each in turn. ABILITY TO QUALIFY FOR PERMANENT RESIDENCE There are several paths leading to Permanent Residence in Canada. Aside from the comments that follow relating to Entrepreneur Category applicants, the rights, privileges, and obligations of the status received are the same, no matter which category the application is made under. However, the out-of-pocket expense, level of financial disclosure, and speed of application processing varies greatly amongst the categories. Family Sponsorship Category Certain Canadian citizens and Permanent Residents are entitled to "sponsor" certain foreign relatives for Permanent Residence in Canada. Relatives that can be sponsored under the Family category include: fiancées/spouses, parents, grandparents, all unmarried children up to the age of 19, certain unmarried children over the age of 19, and grandchildren (note that grandchildren can only be sponsored if they are orphaned and the grandparents have custody of the children in question). To qualify as a sponsor it is necessary to be over the age of 18, to be resident in Canada, and to have proof of income sufficient to look after all of those being sponsored. Independent/Assisted Relative Category Individuals who fall into this category base their applications on personal skills and ability to contribute to the Canadian economy. Applications are made according to a point system. The system is designed so that a twenty-eight year old applicant with five years experience in computer software design and with employment already arranged would be assigned more points than a fifty-five year old factory laborer with no employment arranged. If the applicant has a close relative who is a Permanent Resident of Canada or a Canadian Citizen he would be considered an Assisted Relative and would receive bonus points. The Assisted Relative category includes brothers/sisters, uncles/aunts, and nephews/nieces. Self-Employed Category Self-Employed applicants are those who have the ability to establish or purchase a business in Canada that will create employment for themselves and will make a significant contribution to the economic, cultural or artistic life of Canada. There are two types of Self-Employed applicants. First are those who, on the basis of their managerial skills, proven business experience, and financial status, intend to provide employment opportunities for themselves. The second type of Self-Employed applicants are those persons who are likely to be successful in Canada in a particular cultural field as artists, singers, writers, musicians, a
I am a Canadian that after working a few years in Canada (Edmonton), I headed south. I liked what I was doing better in Canada, but the pay was bad. I think the market for programmers in Edmonton is flooded because there is a terrific (and large) university there but the industry in the town is mainly blue-collar.
More than half of what you make will got to taxes, but your benefits will cost significantly less, especially if you have dependents as health care is a public service. Also, as long as you stay out of Toronto and Vancouver, the cost of living is quite low. I rented a small two b/r appartment in downtown edmonton for $500 CAD (about $330 USD at the time) -- utilities included. That would be worth at least $600 USD in Rochester, MN.
Keep in mind that Canada is also regionally divided. Working in Toronto is a lot different from working in Edmonton, which is a lot different from working in Calgary. Choose the atmosphere you want to work in and select the appropriate city.
Edmonton: Laid back, mainly blue collar town, city driving is easy, cold and dry winters, cheap housing, low salary.
Calgary: not sure about atmosphere, mainly white collar town, driving not too bad but you will have to take public transportation if you work downtown, odd winter weather with snowstorms often followed by hot dry "chinook" winds, little more spendy on housing, decent salary
Vancouver: People don't go there for the money, they go for the lifestyle. Considered one of the top cities to live in in the world. Expensive housing, low salary, mild winters, good night life
Toronto: Stuck up coroporate culture, unions rule, evenin the white collar world. Expensive housing, frequent traffic jams, hot smoggy summers, great night life, streets are alive at all times.
Saskatoon: Conservative population, not sure about corporate culture, long cold dry winters, safe city, very low cost of living, not sure about salaries, considered a boring city, good place to raise children.
That's all the cities I can really speak about.
All in all, if you have children, I encourage you to move to Canada, there are good schools, it's quite safe, and the public services make raising a family a lot easier.
I'll be in the USA for a few more years, but I plan to head back eventually too. I am quite anxious about the $500B deficit that the US has because Canada used to have the problem and it took a lot of sacrfice to balance the budget and pay off that debt.
God save the queen,
- Thomas;
___ This sig is in boldface to emphasize its importance!
"-1 Troll?"
FYI, moderators, it's not a troll if it's demonstrably true. Disagree? Then point out the differences (which should be easy, right?) but don't simply mark as "troll" anything which you wish were not true. That's cowardly and intellectually dishonest. As if that matters to most liberals.
See. Now THAT'S a troll... Hook 'em and reel 'em in!
Try going into the 'small business' America. Its MUCH different then the big coproprates.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
I wouldn't say "anti-gun" more like we really don't need them to protect us with (except for those evil deer) :)
Socialist Country
Yes you're a troll, but Canada is a parliamentary democracy.
As for taxes, Canada's progressive tax system makes it a good place start a business
Dudley Doright do you?
Setting his threshold to 5, Sparky eliminated most of the trolls on /.
They wouldn't have to buy 50 case fans when all they would need to do is stick their computers outside...
"I've ... decided to move to Canada. How does Canadian corporate life compare to that of the US?"
Nice... decide first, research later.
Lucky thing he didn't say: "I'm sick of the state of abuses by police in America. I've decided to move to China. What is it like there??"
Lol.
the women always want to be warmed up
we spend our time sitting around fires listening to the wise ones of the village telling many many stories of 2 girls living with a guy who has to pretend he's gay because the landlord doesn't approve of such nonsense. If it weren't for the stories, we'd like have to make up stories like this, heck maybe even make pictures to go with them to make them seem more true.
bla
You might ask Michael Moore, the guy who is religous about "America", you know, the one who exposed the large corporations that were shipping jobs out of the United States to foreign countries?
Our local news station recently did a piece on him -- apparently he has hired out the work to create and support his web site to a small firm in Canada. So, he should know about the advantages of taking jobs to a different country...
Elsewhere someone posted that the figure was 7 million guns for 10 million households in Canada. According to this, there are as many guns in the US as *adults* (presumably there is more than one adult in most households). Even if the Canadian number should be 14 million guns (as suggested here), this is still less than the number of adults (22 million according to this).
I would cite parallel statistics but didn't find them in my brief Google.If your going to live there you need to speak the language. I'll rephrase from your post.. "I've been working as a sysadmin for an insurance company in the US for the past six years, and have decided to move to Canada, eh"
If you go, I'll give you a tip:
If people ask where you are from, don't say "American", say the name of your hometown like, "Brainard, Minnesota"
Canada,being a small country that is culturally dominated by the USA is very anxious about their identity and Canadians frequently hold resent towards Americans because of it. If you reply by saying the name of your hometown, you will diffuse some of that by making you sound a little more personable and less arrogant.
- Thomas;
___ This sig is in boldface to emphasize its importance!
what about HANDGUNS
I've not worked outside the US, personally, but I have a hard time believing the US has a monopoly on evil, soulless corporations. Disney, Enron, et. al. are great examples, but there's no way they're the only ones. I'm sure people who work for Philips, Matsushita, Hyundai, etc. will report similar stories to those you hear from people toiling at GE, Exxon/Mobil or GM.
Besides, soon we'll all be working for soulless, globe-spanning megacorporations, living in company-owned housing, taking the company monorail to work, shopping at the company stores, rooting for the company sports teams and voting for company-endorsed political candidates.
That said, I actually like the company I work for. It's a privately-held company, which may have something to do with its generally employee-friendly ways. Publicly-held companies generally are enslaved by the Wall Street Analysts and large institutional investors.
I've heard it said that we're about 3 years behind the US in terms of mentality, fashion and industry norms.
So far it's been a pretty fair gauge so remember what you liked about your job 3 years ago, stay here and deteriorate all over again!
Yo Grark
Canadian Bred with American Buttering
In the two different occasions that I have worked in Canada, I have had nothing but good experiences with the companies and the Country.
I however want to point out to the original poster of this "Ask Slashdot" that Canada is a Giant Country! The differences from working in Toronto, Ontario which is very much like a clean New York to Vancouver, B.C. (mmmm...Vancouver) which is like nothing imaginable and quite possibly the most incredible city in all of North America are incredible.
The corporate atmosphere was very different as well in my observations in that Toronto was somewhat uptight East Coast (think New York) and Vancouver was very mellow West Coast (think Seattle or San Francisco).
I have a theory that the truth is never told during the nine-to-five hours. -- Hunter S. Thompson
For corporate jobs, two weeks paid vacation is the absolute minimum you'll get in most parts Canada (i.e. the legal minimum for someone fresh out of school). As an experienced person, you may be able to negotiate more (3 weeks? 4?). Not as nice as Europe or Oz, but still an improvement...
-- "At Microsoft, quality is job 1.1" -- PC Magazine, Nov. 1994
There's only one problem with work in Canada... is that there's no jobs here. Found one - feel lucky.
My husband is an American, is a tech, and we're currently in the immigration process. It's a very long process, and can be a pain in the butt. One would think with the world's largest "unprotected border" one can pick up and move to Canada. Not so. Check out www.cic.gc.ca and poke around there abit. Maybe take the quick online test about whether or not Canada would be the place for you...if you can get in as a skilled worker, you're good to go. Otherwise...good luck.
Obesity plagues something like 40% of America... Per that statistic alone, we've probably got more hot chicks per capita than america does :)
:)
Less buffets though... Wonder if there's a correlation
09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0
Based on past experience, you are going to have a hard time. In order to get a work permit in Canada you are going to have to show that you posess skills that are not available in Canada. And then, your work permint is only good for several years. You will be expected to train Canadian workers in your skills and then go back home. Good luck, and don't expect to take your guns with you.
Gosh, if only I'd known before how bad things were up here, I could have sent my father down your way for his recent surgery.
Of course, it would have cost him his life's savings, but I'm sure it would have been worth it. Instead he had to contend with our Canadian health care system, which in his case meant receiving the services of a top-notch surgeon and recovering in an ultramodern facility with excellent care. Despite all that, I'm pleased to report he's doing great now. I guess he was lucky.
And hey thanks, it's sure nice to know where I can go for cheap MRIs. I'll bet you all down there get that done once or twice a year, just for fun?
i'd move up to canada just for the mountain biking!!!!!! we have some great places here in the US but you have to travel 1500 miles to get to them.
nature loves variety::society hates it get your variety at http://www.monkeypantz.net
Unfortunately Canadian beer sucks.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
I find it hard to believe that corporate life in Canada is any different from that of the US. Maybe you could please explain and we could confirm or clarify some of your thoughts about the Great White North.
I lived & worked in BC for 4 years in the 1970's and would return in a heartbeat. Yes the healthcare system is imperfect, but look at the healthcare industry and insurance industries here. It is good if you are rich, badly flawed if you are not. Last I heard they actually let the people decide their elections there, not the courts.
Allow me to clear things about taxes:
Federal Tax: 7%, on *everything*.
Provincial Taxes: 7.5% in Quebec, 8% in Ontario. Maybe also in other provinces, I don't know. And this 7.5-8% tax is only on "commodities", stuff not really necessary to stay alive.
Harmonized tax: some maritime (eastern, like New Brunswick) provinces have an "harmonized" tax of 15% on *everything*. But maybe not on food, someone could explain more about it.
Books are taxed only 7%, same for food. Magazines and CDs get the prov. tax, though. But, as I work in publishing, I love the idea that books are free from provincial tax.
All Hail Discordia. Hail Eris. Fnord.
Those are here in Oregon. Anyone can get a concealed-carry license!
Eh, take off hoser. Lets get a free beer, eh.
Fight Spammers!
To avoid lulling Americans into a false sense of security regarding the Canadian climate - the parent here is considered spoiled-by-the-climate-in-TO by pretty much the rest of Canada aside from south-western Ontario. As an example of what you might end up with if you are uncareful with your city selection, I submit the current weather situation in Winnipeg. We are currently just slightly above freezing (and the temperature is falling), and we can no longer see grass or sidewalk due to the heavy snowfall yesterday.
But hey, the living's cheap.
Corporations will be the same. I work in Dilbertesque Telecom in Canada. Lots of execs lining their pockets, accounting scandals and office politics. Work will be the same if you work for the same type of organization. The only corporate difference, is you can expect less money in your pocket when all is said and done. On to those differences.
Money:
I definitely make less than my counter parts in the USA. Here is a fictional breakdown that is somewhat representative of buddies (many) who left for the USA.
Location Me(Canada) Buddy (USA)
Gross pay 60K CDN 75K US
After Tax 40K CDN 56K US
Xbox price $200+15% 149+4%
Total XBs: 174 361
There you go. At the end of the day after tax you get paid more than double the amount of Xboxes to work in the USA.
Now onto some other differences:
Health care:
It has drastically declined in Canada. Anyone I know who has left in recent years feels they are much better served in the USA. You will wait 6months to get an MRI here. If you work for a company with decent benefits your care will be better in the USA.
Guns:
On a per capita basis, I remember hearing ownership is similar, but here it is more hunting rifles and less handguns. There is much less gun violence here, but it is constantly increasing espcially in Toronto.
Religion and Politics:
Unlike in the USA they hardly mix. Religion is much more low key in Canada. It is is a more socialist and secular society. Our most right wing political party is probably to the left of the Democrats in the USA.
That is my observation as a Canadian in hi-tech. Come here if you want a change to a more liberal and secular society. But you will have less money and your job will suck just as much.
If Canada's damn healthcare worked so well then a family friend would not have had to come here TWICE to get operations. The first saved his life, heart surgery, which was "delayed" in BC. The second was for knee surgery, since it wasn't life threatening, was also "delayed"... If he had not had the knee surgery the damage could have been irrepairable.
No person in the US is without availability to healthcare. Emergency rooms treat all who come. The US still has the finest hospitals in world and will remain so until someone manages to foist governmnet health care upon everyone.
Seems to me, based on numerous sites and the Economist, federal health care in major countries isn't all its cracked up to be. In Britian if you pay you get better accomodations.. go figure.
PS: I don't see how Republicans are a problem to your National Health Care's standing... You have a chip on your shoulder and apparently its far better for you to act emotional then provide facts.
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.
...get used to hearing them differently.
Most of us Americans know (we do, don't we?) that Canadians pronounce been the same way we pronounce bean, and about to (almost) rhyme with our boot (likewise for other similar words like house). Also, the "...eh?" thing. You will, however, run into other, lesser-known pronunciation oddities. For instance, process (which you will hear a lot in an office setting, particularly an IT one) will have the same first syllable as proton.
"A great democracy must be progressive or it will soon cease to be a great democracy." --Theodore Roosevelt
This may or may not be useful for you, but I worked for ~three years for a mid-sized Canadian corporation with offices located in the US.
The honeymoon: After getting dot-bombed twice, I was brought in for an interview via a personal referral, and it seemed like a good fit. I told them I was a little jittery about the technology economy, and to describe how they were doing. The response was something along the lines of "We've been making a small but dependable profit every year for the past thirty-plus years." I started work the next week. While primarily Canadian-run, the inclusion of British and Australians in the management mix gave a bit more of a truly international feel to the organization. The place was eerily quiet and very businesslike, which was a welcome change from the Brownian-motion style US/.com management of the previous few years.
The serious relationship: They kept me busy on a number of good technology projects, but the risk-averse environment began to grate on me. The Canadian management was interested in the *idea* of new clients, but was so entrenched in the repeat-business-by-reputation model that they consistently failed to track new opportunities. Even really good and profitable ventures with low risk that landed in their laps tended to be neglected. For example, I spent quite a bit of effort on a business plan for expansion of an existing line of work, only to have it neglected rather than rejected outright. Still, there were interesting work opportunities, and we plodded along with them. I resisted slowing my personal pace of business and technical exploration, but eventually reached something of a tolerable balance.
The divorce: The US operation began to lose money, and a new manager was brought in to build business. Instead, the uber-conservative atmosphere stymied new ventures at a higher level than had affected me directly. Low/med risk down here in the US was perceived as high-risk north of the border. The new manager (a low-wattage guy who was long on vision and short on follow-thru) then just resorted to layoffs. Now, a decent US-ian approach might have been to face up to the numbers, lay off a bunch of people with a semi-reasonable severance, and be done with it. Instead, in the Canadian corporate atmosphere I knew, having to do a layoff was a point of shame (which it should be, since any layoff is a tacit admission of management failure). But instead of getting it over with, they drew it out, firing an average of 1% a week for a year, on a seemingly random basis. The last straw for me was an ill-timed complaint that I made about not receiving my allotted training budget for the past two years. I was shooed out the door, only to be brought back as a consultant within a week. I finished my work shortly thereafter, and bowed out as gracefully as I could.
Would I work for a Canadian company again? Maybe, but probably not. These few years seemed to combine all the worst features of risk-verse Canadians, tall-poppy-averse Australians, form-over-substance-obsessed British, and blinded-by-your-own-BS-management Americans. But it was tolerable, we made a little money, and the company is still in business and probably will be for some time to come. Based on my experience, I would say a medium-sized Canadian corporation might be nice place to park yourself if you want a quiet, staid environment for a few years. But be careful that you don't take root and slow down to a point that you can't re-enter the US or other fast-paced market in the future.
Jon
I think not...(*poof*)
Just as a stupid car-guy question, whats the average high-Octane rating for US gas? I've found most of Canada's best juice is that pee-water stuff they call 91. Some places have 92, and a few might have 93. I know some places in Ontario (Sunoco stations) sell 94, but where I live thats not much more than a pipe dream.
So how is it down south? I heard Cali got screwwed with the 91 stuff too, but doesn't the rest of the country have the luxury of slurping back 93 or 94? Or is that just a rumour?
No, but you can end up with a $30,000 bill for an appendectomy. No kidding.
In my community in California the nearest emergency room is on the verge of closing, part of a larger trend. We're about to vote whether we want to pay a property tax to keep it open. It will cost about $104/year for small homeowners.
Other things to note: health care is essentially free.
Bullshit.
Unless your doctors and nurses work for free. And hospitals spring up out of the ground all on their own.
Where do they get their money. From the government. Where does the government get its money? From you.
Now...they may or may not do a better job with that money than a corporation (HMO or whatever), but they must get that money to pay the doctors from somewhere. And as the government makes nothing to sell, they get it via taxes. i.e., out of your pocket.
Not having a separate line item on your paycheck stub for 'Medical' doesn't mean it is free. It just means you don't know exactly how much of your check goes towards it.
oh yes, the beer is good. But so are many US micros...
How do you get 20 Canadians out of a swimming pool?
Hey you Canadians, get out of the pool.
Canadians are nice. Really nice. I've only visited there, never worked there, but I'd have no hesitation about living there ... if only it wasn't so f**king cold.
I have lived in several different countries and I currently live in New York. This winter that just finished about 3 weeks ago has been atrocious - frequent snow storms and bitterly cold winds. Now imagine a country where the warmest parts are hundreds of miles north of here. My friends in Montreal tell me they simply don't go outdoors from October to April.
By all means give it a try - just so long as you feel you look good in 15 layers of clothing (no wait, this is Slashdot - no-one here cares what they look like...)
If you want to compare it that way then you can do the same against other countries eg:
... bla, bla, bla.
The british pound is worth more than the US dollar so getting a wage in pounds is worth so much more
If the end WHO CARES? There are only two times most people care about the exchange rate:
1. When you buy something from another country.
2. When you go overseas.
You could also talk about how the Japanese get paid alot more than most people but that doesn't take into considertion the cost of living and lifestyle. Don't understand?
Mac Hall explains this one quite well:
Servay Says
Basically if you get paid less but can buy more and have a better lifestyle then who cares?
No kidding. Judging all American businesses based on the insurance industry is like judging the whole human race after hanging around a bunch of cannibals. Or lawyers, same thing.
No kidding, our tax money payed for a comedy show about Jebb Fink, "An American in Canada". I think it's one of the most honest opinions about Canada you can find and its hilarious, especially because it's from an outside perspective. It might be kind of hard to find, I don't think its got the same popularity as the Trailer Park Boys I'm a developer and sys-admin for a small company in Red Deer, Alberta.
Canadians. North Dakotans with a health plan.
As an American* working in Canada, I'll tell you that in my experience yes, it is more open and relaxed than in the US. That is until your company becomes noticed as an aquisition target because it's so successful and a US company sucks it up to help keep them alive. Having been through the experience, the contrast in company cultures was tremendous and the resulting atmosphere in the company continues to be depressing and as filled with corporate politics and frustrations as one could imagine.
My advice: if you find a good job in Canada with the atmosphere you seek, enjoy it while it lasts. I did. And since then I've moved on to a smaller Canadian company where I enjoy the relaxed culture still, sadly I just don't get paid as well for it.
As an aside, for an excellent resource on Canadian culture in general compared to the US, see Emily Way's An American's Guide to Canada. There is much useful info there.
*Disclaimer: For those who are anal about such things, yes, I generally refer to myself as an American, prefectly aware that there are many other countries upon the American continent. But having lived in three other countries apart from the US, I have found that by refering to yourself as a US citizen, estadounidense, or whatever else often tends to confuse people. Really, it does. Once they realize what you're saying, they invariably reply "oh, you're American". So after years of trying to buck the trend, I've given in to the pressure from residents of other countries, including Canada and Mexico, the two countries with the most right to be offended by such a moniker, and call myself an American.
Do you like Mayo on your burger?
I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.
"The U.S. was in great shape DUE to Clinton. Bush and his greed bastard henchmen fucked it all up."
;-)
The Dot Com era occured under Clinton which led to the recession. The recession technically started at the very end of the Clinton administration.
Clinton DID run away from the vast majority of challenges to the US abroad during his administration as written by the original poster. That taught the terrorists exactly the wrong lesson and emboldened them to strike again and again thinking that the US would turn and run.
Now onto topic! I commute with a gentleman/ex-canadian every day who has been living in the US for about 8 years now. He ran away from the taxes, poor health care, and constant interference of the government to come to California. (I can't explain why he chose CA..) He is now a US citizen thinking that this is the best place to be. Most interesting, since his Dad was British he has joint Canadian, British, and now US citizenship. He can work anywhere in the EU, Canada, or here. Look where he chooses to stay???
So why does the poor dude who started this whole topic think the grass is greener over our Northern border??? It's only green a few months a year!
Have you compiled your kernel today??
I was born and raised in Canada. The first time I ever heard of "Canadian bacon" was on a visit to California, when I was 17*. The next time was here at Slashdot (today) and I'm now more than twice that age, now.
* It was also the first time I ever head of Moosehead beer, but I've had a few encounters with that one here since then.
No person in the US is without availability to healthcare. Emergency rooms treat all who come. The US still has the finest hospitals in world and will remain so until someone manages to foist governmnet health care upon everyone.
On the other hand, no one in Canada is serously in debt due to paying medical bills.
As with everything, in healthcare you get what you pay for. Sure the system in Canada is in many ways inferior to the US, but it is absolutly free, or at least paid for by tax dollars. If you want to rely on the free medicare system in the US, your wait will be much longer and service much poorer than Canadians get.
Good healthcare is a right, not a priveledge of the rich, and the Canadian system provides good heath care to all people, and not just the ones who can afford it.
"Entropy is the bad-guy, and he is everywhere"
Your question relates specifically to the Canadian corporate environment, so I will first answer that and then move on to other issues.
I grew up in Alberta (Canada), worked a few years there, went to grad school in the US, and now live in the South. A decision to move to Canada has to be tempered by many factors relating to your personal situation.
The first is that Canada is small. Most Canadians will be wildly offended by this, but it doesn't change the facts. The entire country has a smaller economy than California or Texas. This impacts the corporate culture in a number of ways.
Firstly, to be a world-class corporation in Canada means focusing externally. The few world-beaters in Canada do most of their business outside of Canada--this gives them a much more international flavor. I work at an American company right now that is afraid to invest in Ontario because it's "foreign"; that attitude is much less prevalent in Corporate Canada. You move out, or you get taken over by an American firm.
This leads to the issue of the branch-plant economy. Those companies that are not world-class (the majority, of course) are either internally focused (and survive because of superior local market knowledge) or are owned by American parents. A case in point is Tim Horton's donuts, which exemplifies both scenarios: a Canadian chain with deep market roots that is owned by Wendy's. This means that the hard-driving, ambitious professional managers (some call them seagulls...) are less prevalent in the branch plants. The real action is in New York, so why hang out in Winnipeg?
To sum up: the Canadian corporate environment is characterized by less acrimony and politicking; places more of a premium on work-life balance; has lower (shockingly lower, in most cases) salaries; exports ambitious people to the "main plant" in the US; focuses on execution (as opposed to planning); and has highly educated people doing lower-level work (simply because the education level is quite high, but that may be my Alberta bias).
There are also a number of cultural issues. Many Canadians define themselves in opposition to Americans (you may have noticed that on a few of these comments). This leads to sometimes good outcomes, such as the three weeks vacation that you'll start with, and sometimes leads to bizarre outcomes, like the pervasive sense of entitlement that people living high on your tax money will have. In general, however, the two countries are far more similar than they are different. The differences stand out just because so much of your daily routine will be the same.
I support universal health care, by the way, but the Canadian system has so many holes that I'm concerned about my family's care in Canada. And, unlike any other good or service, you cannot spend your own hard-earned money to improve that, unless you fly down to the States for any emergencies.
In general, Canada is better for families. If you live in Alberta, you will not face significantly higher taxes than in the US. Quality of life is better in Canada. You will make less money. You will be rewarded less for performance. You will find it harder to find work (that short-term Canadian manager's mind-set at work). If you start your own business, or lose your job, or have your business outsourced, your health care will be paid for and you won't worry about your family. And you won't have George W. as your leader.
yes, idiot, they get it from f-n taxes, but if you're a poor guy working hard and making 20-30 grand, you pay a small amount of it and still get good care. Rich shit "making"(idiotic american phrase btw) thousands of hundreds pays more. Everyone gets same good healthcare. Got a problem with that, scum??? Compare to the stinking US, where many people simply can't afford healthcare insurance(last I heard like 40 million), and more and more corporations dramatically increase copayments or drop healthcare entierly. Only rich shit can afford the huge amounts required for good healthcare, especialy dental, hospital care etc. Fuck that.
You mean you can get less than 2 weeks annual vacation in the USA??
Multiculturalism affects negotiation, business customs, social etiquette to a much larger degree than in the US. It's not necessarily a French/English issue either; in Vancouver you should expect to do business with many Far East Asian cultures and in Calgary with Indian/Paki/Bangladeshi. The primary distinction between the US and Canada in this regard is that there is no pervading "melting pot" concept in Canada. In the US, you might think of your heritage as--for example--"an American of Italian descent", in Canada you'd probably consider yourself "an Italian who happens to live in Canada". Deference to ethnic heritage is more ubiquitous.
In my experience Canadians put much greater emphasis on personalizing business relationships than in the US, but of course that's an overgeneralization and depends largely upon the market segment and other factors.
It's what you'd expect of a North American business climate influenced more heavily by European subcultures.
Flash is the answer !!!!
http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/end.php
As much as you hate Republicans, any registered Republicans who might've or are dealing with you and read your comment will probably be reconsidering doing business with you. That's why in business it's best to leave politics and religion completely out of your corporate policy unless they're part of your primary business function.
Either post the comments anonymously or without your personal identification, or eliminate the political bashing if you identify you and your company. As a CTO, it's your fiduciary responsibility to the stakeholders in the company and its employees to do it.
As of February 2004 (the most recent I could find), Mexico and Canada were tied then Saudi Arabia, by country. Looking over the current year it would seem to average out to be just about equal between Mexico and Canada (16%) with Saudi Arabia slightly behind in third place (15%). The point being that North American sources of oil provide 32% of the total oil imported, more than you'd realize. Here is my source.
... I'd say it sucks. Sucks real bad. You don't want to come here. Ya, that's right, sucks. Stay in the US, and don't come poaching in Canada. Our beer is too strong and our women are too realistic about how a female and male body should look like and like to keep it that way. Oh, and the majority of people worry too much about the quality of life and not the quantity, mid-sized companies are far too lax about employees switching jobs between each other and we have far too many Federal and Provincial stat holidays. Ya, sucks, that's the ticket, stay right where you are....
-- I care not for your foolish signatures.
OK, for the geographically challenged ...
... it varies by where you live, too. Toronto was pretty much like a big US city (complete with a US-like accent) when I lived there, meaning impersonal. Vancouver is like living in California complete with vegetarians and Birkenstocks (except with tons of rain), and Montreal is a very eclectic and worldly city with a ton of neat festivals.
... and like Michael Moore discovered, we sometimes don't even lock our doors. If you want to raise kids, Canada is generally a better place to do it than the US, IMO, just from that fact alone. Our standard education system here is worlds better than anything I've seen from the States except for private schools down there.
Canada is a gigantic country. To make any statements about climate, work conditions or lifestyle are impossible unless you narrow it down and state some of your preferences. We have places that NEVER see snow and places that see tons of snow and the wind will rip the flesh off your bones. Where you live and what you like to do makes a huge difference in how you perceive life to be.
As for work conditions, labour law is set, mostly, at the provincial level and so it varies some from province to province, just like it varies from state to state in the USA. Currently, Alberta and Ontario are pretty business friendly (read: worker unfriendly), but the remaining provinces are governed by much more left leaning governments.
There is a huge difference in cost of living, depending upon where you set up, with Toronto, Montreal and Vancouver being very expensive to live in. The prairie cities (Calgary, Edmonton, Regina, Winnipeg) are cheaper and the Maritime cities (Halifax, Fredricton, Charlottetown) being the least expensive. Of course, IT jobs will be in the first three cities, mostly, so expect to pony up some dough for basic expenses. It is literally twice as expensive to live in Vancouver, for example, as it is to live in Edmonton where I am located.
As for attitude
The overall tax rate isn't appreciably different than the US when you factor in the exchange and what you get for those taxes. Remember that you pay for health insurance separately in the US and if you want a fair comparison for tax rates, add your bill for that onto your taxes you pay in the US when comparing to Canada because it is included here. The sheer number of services that are included in Canada that are NOT in the US is pretty staggering.
Health Care, contrary to public opinion, is NOT worse in Canada. It is very similar and on a per capita basis, costs less than equivalent service in the States.
The streets, even in Toronto, are safer than pretty much every major US city, including places like Spokane and St. Paul
The unemployment rate is higher, but when you adjust for the fact that a greater percentage of US jobs are now 24 hrs than in Canada, the rates pretty much end up the same.
Pay is similar, but in CAD instead of USD, of course. Corporatism is rife here, too, though, and so coming to Canada will lean you slightly more left than in the US, but not terrifically.
Get the fuck out of this country
- Canadian working in America
Also, the federal government anyway operates with a budget surplus,
well, that's because you don't spend as much as the US on a well-trained, exemplary professional army that would never do anything to violate the Geneva Conventions.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Because there are a lot of hoops to jump through before you can work in Canada, even as an american. My fiance was recently accepted to a Canadian school, but we couldn't make things work financially.
For starters, you have the catch 22 of needing a permanent resident visa in order to work there. You have to be pretty well qualified or have a lot of money that you can use to start a business in order to even qualify for a working visa. If you don't have a specific job offer, it is even harder. If a Canadian company wants to hire you, they have to have the job description reviewed by a Canadian Govt. agency to make sure that there is a reason to hire a foriegner to work the job. God help you if you want to work as an Engineer in Canada, there is a whole set of additional hurdles to jump in order to get your PEng certification, which is required in Canada.
Now, if you qualify for application to permanent residency, you have to pay them $1500cad up front to look at your application, then another $500 if you are approved. You can't do anything bad (illegal) when you are there on this visa, or they will revoke it and kick you out. (Add another $1500 for engineering certs if you need them). Keep in mind that for these 3 years you are not a full citizen and have no voting rights, and have restrictions on travel, too much of which can cause you to loose your visa.
After 3 years you can pay some more money and apply for citizenship... And I've left out a lot of fees here...
Not to mention that you can expect high taxes and low salary when you get theere, but you probably knew that.
We found that it would be a lot cheaper to move to LA if that tells you anything!
+++ ATH0 +++
What kind of ridiculous question is this?? It's like asking who has the best trees. Who has the better sandwich, US or Canada?
All I can say is you'll face the same old shit regardless of where you go, because no matter where you work, you have to contend with one common thing: Other people.
Office Politics are a universal phenomenon.
But if you go through with it, welcome to lower wages, higher taxes and crappy weather. Aren't you glad you moved??
On the other hand, no one in Canada is serously in debt due to paying medical bills.
Because they're either dead or received substandard care?
Good healthcare is a right, not a priveledge of the rich
What kind of "right" is it that demands that I pay for it? What else are "rights" in this utopia? Free snacks?
I haven't really seen these issues addressed yet.
Canadians are much left of Americans politically. Polls consistently show that only 10% of Canadians would vote Republican. This is reflected in their views on many social and political issues. If you are republican you should move to Alberta which is the most 'American' of the Canadian provinces. I've heard that this is true in all Western countries: most of the population would vote Democrat if they could. (This probably pleases the Democrats, but doesn't bother the Republicans at all.)
Canadians are less religious than Americans. Well, they are still religious but in a quieter and political way. Religion is a much less politically and geographically focussed in Canada. For example, being strongly religious in the US makes you vastly more likely to vote Republic and to live in certain parts of the country. This is not true in Canada. (BTW, I think that Canada is more Catholic and the US is more protestant).
The media is also much different. I compared the Canadian, American, and British media during the recent war in Iraq (and much of its aftermath). The American coverage was totally different than that in the other two countries.
Here's an example of two of these that caught my attention recently. I heard that Fox news is having a spat with the Globe and Mail. Fox is accusing the G&M of being too left wing. What's bizarre about this is that the G&M has been the voice of the business community in Canada for as long as I can remember. No one in Canada would ever accuse it of being to left wing.
"You get paid less and LIVE more."?
All liberals preach the same mantra:
Do as I say, not as I do.
As a British Columbian, government scandals in both Province (equiv to a state) and Country have become much more prominent lately.
Our Prime Minister (equiv President) is severly implicated in a scandal involve hundreds of millions of misallocated (equiv allocated to buddy buddy organizations equiv to stolen) funds. He claims he had no knowledge of such things happening in his previous position (blaming it on the former Prime Minister), at which point he was Finance Minister. How does the guy in charge of money miss something that big?
Then we have our dear Premier (equiv head of State). He's been nailed in Hawaii on a drunk driving charge. He's also managed to dunk thousands of government jobs (some dunking necessary, but not all at once), roll back healthcare worker wages by 11-15%, and privatize most of government industry. Much of our gov't owned industry has basically been sold off to private interests.
So basically, if the corporate climate is better, the political is just as bad (worse in some areas, better in others). I'd recommend you look at working someplace in Alberta (no Provincial Tax), and try to avoid Quebec (unless you're fluent in French).
I might just be a bit bitter and disallusioned, but I am seriously considering looking at my own career opportunities out-of-province and likely out-of-country. Perhaps somebody can comment on Corporate work in Australia for me - that's where I'd rather be.
They do not let you bring your gun to work. Wussies.
Actually the Canadian dollar has jumped due to a weak US dollar. The exchange rate is 1.35 now, rather than 1.65.
:)
Second, my heating bill is cheap. I live in Vancouver, and it snows maybe once a year. The farther north you go, the better insulated the houses are.
Third, your tax calculates are way off.
$8000 CDN (or about $5200 US) is tax free. From there to $35,000, you pay 16%. From 35K to 70K, you pay 22%. From 70K to 113K, you pay 26%. Over 113K, you pay 29%. Then you add provincial taxes onto that. Now, look at this page and compare tax rates between 2003 and 2004. Notice they are going down? Do a Google on Canadian budget surpluses.
Fourth, Canada is not a socialist country. We are a capitalist country with a more comprehensive social net.
Finally, yes, MRIs are difficult to get in Canada. But that's pretty recent, with budget cuts to health care; ten years ago, the systems were pretty comparible. Canada is paying off a big national debt, and it costs $30 billion to service it a year. Once that's paid off, healthcare spending will rebound. It's also nice to know that while I'm not getting and MRI on demand, no one else is either
And as someone pointed, out, we can alwasy cross the border to the US and get one for $600 US ($800 CDN).
Peameal or backbacon...I think it is geographically dependent (the term "peameal" seems to be mostly used in Ontario and points east--out here in the west you'd likely get the response "what the heck is peameal?")
One thing to note is that like Chinese food served in North America, "Canadian Bacon" as served in the US is a pale and inaccurate imitation of the real thing--it is NOT seasoned nor cured the way it actually is in Canada. It's like calling corned beef Montreal Smoked Meat (they're different and it's always disappointing when the former is pawned off as the latter).
If you like the real thing but can't find it in the US, try ordering it from this site.
Anyways, to keep this post on-topic, I'd say that "corporate Canada" and "corporate America" are pretty much like "US style Canadian Bacon" and peameal/backbacon--quite similar in general but when you look further you notice differences. Among them:
* The "competitive drive" is not as pronounced in Canada. Americans seem to place more importance on climbing the ladder, job titles and so on. Canadians strive to move up, but it doesn't seem the emphasis on being "VP" or "Regional Manager". We don't care what our title is so long as we are fairly compensated.
* Canadian business seems more fixated on process and bureaucracy. My employer is a global corporation, and even within the same company there is more paperwork and business processes seem more combersome than in our American offices.
* Be prepared for a shock when you see your first paycheque. The income tax, CPP (pension) and EI (employment insurance) deductions will take a bigger chunk of your earnings than you are used to. That and your salary will be a bit smaller to start with (don't worry, it's in Canadian dollars so it won't APPEAR to be significantly less). Overall the tax take is higher but it is taken in bigger chunks. In the US, you have federal, state, municipal taxes, health insurance, this fee, that fee, etc. US government nickels and dimes. In Canada they clobber you in the head and take your money all at ones, more or less (except for the GST).
* Cost of living is cheaper in Canada overall--Houses cost a bit less, medicare is cheaper, food is a bit cheaper, broadband internet access and cable TV are significantly cheaper (for you slashdotters out there). Makes up for the insanely high gasoline prices.
There's more but you get the idea...kind of a parallel universe really...
And I live on another continent. I've heard it at least a dozen times. It's fairly disgusting.
as someone who works with people from across the country on a daily basis, a quick overview:
.. well, they don't call much. I wouldn't worry about em.
:)
- people from BC are a lot like people from ontario, only more impatient and snobby. probably due to the crappy string of provincial governments they've elected. occasionally you get a very happy person. it's probably the good weed.
- people from alberta are pretty laid back due to the lack of provincial sales tax or income tax, and the fact that they're the only province that can safely wear cowboy boots/hat and not get laughed at
- people from sask are cool. they'll complain that their system is down, 3 hours after it goes down. their reasoning - 'we figured you were doing somethig, and didn't want to bother yuo. if you can fix it today, cool'
- people from manitoba are happy when it's not snowing or buggy. they aren't happy very often
- people from northern ontario/southern ontario are fine, friendly upstanding people that are mildly impatient.
- people from toronto or ottawa are bitchy and pushy and demand that you fix their problem NOW, despite that fact that the machine has beendown for 2 weeks and they wre too lazy to fix it themselves. avoid them at all costs. probably infected with sars anyways.
- people from quebec are french. 'nuff said
- people from NB and NS (new brunswick and nova scotia) are friendlly, polite, outgoing and generally the best people on earth. unless you take their booze away. most of the woman are named betty.
- people from pei
- newfies are the funniest people alive
I think it's clear where you should look for work. having said that, STAY IN THE US and don't take our sysadmin jobs
welcome to Canada eh, the land of good beer, hot wymmin in parkas and hockey night in canada.
cheers.
t.
We emerge from our mother's womb an unformatted diskette; our culture formats us. - Douglas Coupland
Myth #1 - Taxes are really high.
Reality: not really. You don't pay 50% until you make over $100,000.
And you don't call that high???? The US has 401k's that are tax free until withdrawal. We also have no inhertence tax unless you have over a million dollars or so to give away.
Depends on where you come from. You just said that taxes are at least 35% and could be 50%
Other things to note: health care is essentially free.
It's only free if you don't value your hard earned money. Taxes are an expense. And if your last name is Martin and you are an important government official, it appears you can pay for private services. So much for an uncorrupt system
In most parts of Canada, you can find true wilderness an hour or less from where you live.
The same can be said in the US.
I made a 17 day trip to Canada late last year. I stayed mainly in the Quebec province. I loved it. As an Australian, I really felt at home: except for the accent and the driving. The people were friendly, and quite helpful.
I did a side trip to the US (Boston only) for a couple of days, and for wahtever reason, I felt intimidated. American flags were every where. That really put me off.
In Canada, I only saw the flags on government buildings, just like in Australia.
My 2 cents
Parent is not a troll. I knew someone who came from Canada after waiting SIX months for an examination with a specialist. She died of cancer here in the States without ever even seeing a doctor in Canada. (She was a native Canadian, btw). She thought she had stomach cancer. It turns out that she DIDN'T! She just had a terrible infection. If she had been examined soon enough she would probably have lived. By the time she got help here in the U.S., it was too late.
What is more remarkable is that her sister's husband was a doctor who at one time was part of the Canadian national health care agency (I don't know what it is called). He got so fed up with it he moved his practice to the U.S. twenty years ago and has no desire to ever go back.
I'm not bashing Canada here... I mean they gave us Michael J. Fox didn't they? Seriously, Canada is a great country, but their health care system is not a model we should be following. Our own system is bad enough. (Can anyone say "tort reform"?)
In my experience for middle class individuals in comperable areas it is about the same. The spread is wider in the US. Upper middle class is a bit higher, lower is a bit lower.r dale/2004/ 05/11/455050.html
Now lets attack the myths.
#1 Taxes
They are nearly 50% in Ontario.
http://money.canoe.ca/Columnists/Leathe
Note this includes income tax, sales tax, property tax, and the hidden taxes (user fees for government services, sin taxes on alcohol and tobacco, and gas taxes.
#2 Lifestyle
In my opinion you need somewhere about halfway between the exchange rate and the direct dollar figure assuming comperable areas. $40k US would be about $50k CDN
#3 Unemployment
I agree basically, Also note different states have different laws.
#4 You have to play the game right and have skills, it takes a year or so. But some people may take years. And of course demand occupations or those wtih big money are easier.
EI only covers maternity leave for a short time, maternity 15 weeks, parental 20, and sickness 15. I'd check it out before I knocked up my gf.
Hockey is easily the most popular, but so are other sports. You can go to a lot of sports bars and get any sport that is played. European football (soccer) time gets pretty nuts in some areas.
Work environments are about the same, but you really have to consider the city attitude, working in different US cities probaly has about as much variation as working across Canada.
You forgot coffee, everyone drinks it, and there are coffee shops everywhere (I'm from Ontario remember)
RRSPs are revenue neutral for the federal government. What you don't pay in tax now, you'll pay in tax later... And since the money's stuck in your RRSP, it isn't as if you can use it...
Therefore claiming a 20% rate is true, but self-deceiving.
As an American working in Montreal for more than 2 years now, I have always said that Montreal is a wonderful city, and in my opinion, the best city I have ever been to (and I have been to quite a few, including Europe and the US). The people here are fantastic, and it's just a wonderful environment. And even for a non french speaking person like myself, adjusting to the city and the culture was no problem.
Now, granted, I had some help (I moved up here for work and for my girl, who I met online (IRC), and yes, we are still together), so I may have had it easier.
But still, it's a great city. Much more free up here than in the US, as the minds of people are more European, and much more liberal.
Jason Lotito
Oh, great. Let's say I live in China and want to know how our corporate life compares to that of, say, India. Or let's try Norvay vs. Finland. Or Brazilia vs. Argentine. Or whatever. Will my story be accepted, too? (Crossing my fingers :))
Quite simply, if you've had it with corporate America, I can bet that either it is because the promises are false, or they are true and worthless.
Quite simply, rather than just picking up and going to another country -- which might be decent, or might be a very bad move [let's not pick up and go to Iraq, unless we want to be kidnapped and murdered] -- it might be good to ask God what he wants, in prayer, and then start trying to follow his lead as completely as possible.
To do that, though, you're going to have to read your Bible, and pray, and especially take God's word seriously.
Seriously.
Correct Horse Battery Staple: 72 bits of entropy. Enter "Correct H" into google. When it generates the phrase, that's
A lot of people used to work for Nortel.
Research shows that 67% of those who use the term "research shows", are just making shit up.
nt
You just can't do that. Different parts of countries will be...well...different! You can move to canada if you want, and still be in the same kind of company you hate. It is not a magical happy place where everything is perfect and sugar coated.
Considering the total cost of moving over there, I think you'd be much better off looking in your general area first, and neighboring states.
All right, this is slashdot, so that's still not a valid reason for rejecting my story ;)
To save everyone from wading through this report... it concludes that the unemployment measurement discrepancy "accounted for 17 per cent of the gap and its relative importance has been growing over time." The rest is truly lower economic activity.
Are you aware that the unemployment rate here in the US does not count those who's unemployment benifits ran out and who are still jobless?
:)
Wrong.
The US Census Bureau (on behalf of the Bureau of Labor Statistics) determines the unemployment rate using a survey called the Current Population Survey (CPS). The definition of unemployed is:
1) Not currently employed.
2) Available to get a job.
3) Actively looked for work in the last 4 weeks.
There is nothing about unemployment benefits in here at all. This definition of unemployment is used around the world including Canada, Mexico, Australia, Japan, and all of the countries in the European Economic Community. Therefore, these numbers are also good for international comparisons.
During my college days, I worked as a surveyor for the USCB at the Tucson Telephone Center. I lived and breathed the CPS for a full week every month as we tried to get through our share of 50,000 surveys. A lot of fun, lemme tell ya.
The
I find it ironic that someone from Canada (or any other country for that matter) contemplating a move to the US would first find this very restrictive. Why does it seem that anyone who contemplates a move to Canada just seems to assume that they will be accepted into this Country? I know an individual who tried to move to the US to work as a computer technician who eventually gave up because of the political restrictions, restrictive forms and permissions required. Any Comments?
Hi, my name is "Paragraph". Please feel free to take advantage of my services next time you feel like making a post.
One word: Sleemans.
God I miss decent beer.
Anyone know how one can get hooked up down here?
-b
Good healthcare is a right, not a priveledge of the rich,
Yes, we expect a logical opinion on such matters from one going by the name 'trotski', don't we? Not that your spelling of privledge is much better...
Thing is, rich Canadians just go to the states for treatment. Why not boost our own economy by providing the services locally?
I always use USofAn. you-zoe-fan, has a nice pronounce too.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
Now there's a study that's gone awry.
The gun ratio is much higher in Canada, where hunting is a more common thing. Maybe if you find some small redneck area in the US and compared to Ontario you could find a reversed situation. Per capita Canada has many more weapons.
It's hard to say how different it is from the US. Do the Canadians have a word for greed too?
I haven't worked in either the US or Canada, but I have worked in New Zealand, Australia and England. I've also worked in companies with between 7 and 3000 employees. It's not the country or the size of the company that make the job what it is, it's the people, and people are the same whereever you go.
And even when I worked for large companies, it was no different than working for a medium sized company. I didn't really know anyone outside of my division of 30 odd people. There were a whole lot more levels of bosses, but they were just a bunch of people I never met.
This is coming from someone who grew up in Canada and lives in California now...
A key thing to keep in mind is your political stripe - if you are centrist here in the US, you are right wing in Canada. If you are right wing here, you will go nuts in Canada.
Generally, people are more pleasant in Canada in day to day life, however, when you are in need, Americans are more likely to reach out a helping hand because they haven't been conditioned to think its the government's job to take care of you.
Canadians are far more risk averse when it comes to business and that impacts every part of corporate life (both in good ways and bad).
Assuming you get the same $ salary, thecost of living is about the same or cheaper on soft goods and services (e.g. food, dry cleaning) but way more expensive on imported hard goods (e.g. playstation games, cars...the average car here is an upper class luxury in Canada). This difference is due to exchange rates exclusively. Some times the importers charge a bit lower in Canada because nobody could afford it otherwise.
Get used to paying about 15% sales tax on EVERYTHING (goods and services...except in Alberta).
Get used to working for branch offices of American companies where decisions are always made outside of your Canadian division. You are far less likely to be working for a division that creates products - more likely to be working for a sales, support, service organization.
Health care is generally better in Canada for day to day office visits for the average person. However, if you need to see a specialist or need high end diagnostics, prepare to wait months to a year. Everyone beats their chests about how health care is so much better in Canada (it is one of the only things they can think of defining them, after all) but in my experience both systems average out about the same - they are both facing rapidly increasing costs in the face of relatively infinite demand and have two different systems for rationing the service. If you look closely, the two systems are coming closer together out of necessity.
Good luck!
One thing that hasn't been mentioned is Canadian labour laws. In Canada, they are:
There's a lot more legal recourse here, so when the companies screw over their employees, they at least have to use lube.
I would like to blame Canada, but only for sending us Jim Carrey.
As it is, your question comes across as "I have decided to move to Canada, what's it like there?". Shouldn't you have informed yourself about Canadian corporate life *before* making the decision to move to Canada?
I would like to say all the stereotyping, particularly towards french people, is rather pathetic. I'm really quite saddened by this behavior, especially when I see it being rated upwardly. I have known many french people, and they are all different, but most have been great people. Certainly nicer than the close minded stereotyping nerds and other rednecks.
What anyone thinks this behavior achieves I don't know, but I am guessing they are very regressive people whose opinions are not worth very much in the first place.
2) David Dodge did same thing here in Canada, and, for the first time ever was successful in controlling it where you Americans failed -- there was no recession.
No recession here? Hahahahaha!
Okay, maybe there wasn't a recession in the strictest sense, but I can assure you...
Personally, I'll go stateside in a second as soon as George Dubya is out of office. He's even more draconian than the Canadian government "protecting" us from unpleasant things and "erosion of Canadian culture".
Fire and Meat. Yummy.
It's the best in the world, and if they catch you smoking it, you get a ticket!
-1 Uncomfortable Truth
In my 25 years of programming, mostly as a contractor, I have found that insurance companies and banks are the worst companies to work for, in terms of PHBs, interdepartmental politics and ridiculous, nit-picky rules. Safeco even had a LUNCH BELL. If someone had suggested giving out free soda, the whole top floor probably would have had a group heart attack. I seriously doubt that the types of people who run Canadian insurance companies are all that different.
Some people with narrow skills may get trapped in one field. My brother in law for example is an Oracle Financials expert but can't configure email. But as a sysadmin I would think you are pretty portable. My advice is to try other types of companies before you up and leave the country. Unless you have like, a Canadian girlfriend or something, eh.
I've been to Eastern and Western Canada (never middle Canada) several times.
It seemed to be very expensive to live there. I live on the low side of middle class in a moderately priced West Coast USA city, and BC seemed to be rather expensive. Especially the provincial coupled with the federal sales tax, the various GSTs PSTs VATs whatever. The last time that I went I was really happy to get back to Washington state where everything was cheaper.
La situation en Quebec est plus difficulte si vous ne parlez pas ce que on crois serait francais la.
If you couldn't read the sentence above as fast as the one before it, reconsider moving to Quebec. They tend to rather touchy about their quaint local legacy language. If you studied a little French in school because French was the cool language to study instead of studying Spanish (which is the only language that Americans should seriously consider studying as it's not even a 'foreign' language here anymore), well then, yes, check out Quebec. Do, however, spend a few months watching DVDs with the language track set to French beforehand.
French is deceptively difficult language for Americans: it's spoken about 20-30% faster than English and has many subtle differences in the vowel sounds that aren't recognized in English. By the way, if you set the DVD audio track to French and the subtitles to French, you'll find that they are rarely the same. It seems that the movies generally get translated twice at different times, once for audio and once for titles. Plus neither of the two translator teams go by the original screenplay. Bit of a pain for language learners, but that was not its intended purpose. All in all, it's worth the trouble, because Quebec is North America's lost undiscovered country. [It's strange that due to NAFTA even Mexican products sold primarily in Mexico often have French translations on their boxes]
One last tip, don't hide sensitive materials from BC in your car at the same height of a dog's nose. Hollow door handles, tail lights, door panels, ect... Bad idea. Best leave Canadian pleasures behind, after all, America is best handled in typical American style: drunk.
While I do want those things, they aren't "rights". Governement services are not rights. A right is an innate attribute of the person. It is not something that is granted by government.
A good example is free speech. Consider a nation that doesn't have laws protecting or recognizing free speech. Do the citizens of that nation have the right to free speech? If yes, then it can't be something provided by government, because in their case it hasn't been.
Of course, just because healthcare is not a right does not imply any particular means of funding or provision. Not everything the government provides is a right.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
It's a vast and diverse country, however before moving to Canada you should pick the province that best suits your personality.
East Coast (Newfoundland, Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, PEI )
Do you like to Drink? Do you prefer to work summers and take winter off? Don't mind if the women aren't very attractive? The east coast is for you!
Québec
Are you looking for a place that's like Europe, but with half the class? Then say Bonjour to Québec!
Ontario
Do you miss Clinton? Are you gay? Like working for the government? Are you the smartest person you know? Then the logical choice is Ontario.
Manitoba
Like hating where you live? Being unemployed? Do you enjoy being eaten alive by mosquitoes in the summer and frozen solid in the winter? Then man its time to go to Manitoba.
Saskatchewan
Can't read? Sick of all the trees and hills messing up your views? Then welcome to the flatlands.
Alberta
Are you a redneck? Sick of being surrounded by hippies all the time. Want to support a winning hockey team? Then Alberta's the ticket cowboy.
British Columbia
Are you high? Do you want to be? Then dude! Hit the west coast man!
But, to be fair, a whopping 2% of Canadians think the US has a better health care system (reference, 2/3 down). Over half a million people can't all be wrong!
I live in Michigan so I meet quite a number of ex-Candadian who left and will never go back. Mostly because of the healthcare system. Sure it's free, but the problem is that you're always on waiting lists for even simple procedures. Some people die waiting for treatment. Also, they complain about the very high taxes.
But like my title says, my opinion is biased because I only hear from those who left Canada, not from those who love it and choose to stay.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Well, moving to canada eh? First off soon as you get over the border you can expect to make 10,000 less than what you made in the us. Dollar for Dollar. But remember a cad is only .7 usd... So really you're losing 28% + 10k+28% of 10K... Net result... A systems admin makes like 40k cad on avg. Approx 28 usd. You will pay approximately 25% tax on that amount (not including gst, gas tax (yes gas is 1.00 a litre here now), etc) so 21k USD. Now rent is about 1000 cad a month... 750 usd lets say for the sake of argument. 9000 USD/yr...
... And the beauracracy... Man dont try to be a home depot in kitsilano... 22 million for a smallass peice of property and the soccer moms block your business.
so now from your 21k - 9k... you have 12k to live on.
Almost all prices in canada dollar for dollar are about the same as the us + 15% (not equiv to the exchange dont ask me why)
So before coming up here ask yourself can you live on 12k a year. (a decent car still costs 30something)
Just as a note I live in canada, but I work telecommuted in the US.
One other lil canadian fact. Employers are so out of touch with what their jobs need and have so much skilled labour that you need a masters degree and five years experience to make 40k. Pretty dumb eh.
I dont know any 'well-off' IT industry workers who work within canada. Anyone living particularily well seems to contract out to the us or work directly for a company that does.
Its the big reason why you wont see sites like amazon.ca selling the same materials as amazon.com does.
Even with the us economic climate what it is... Stay there, you're really better off.
Only reason to come to canada is for the scenery and people. More appropriate as a vacation destination.
A canadian-us outsourcer
Add up all your taxes, income, GST (or whatever it is called), property, vehicle etc. Bet they come up to 50% or more.
USA Pay: $100,000 USD
Canada: $50,000 CAD
Same job.
I think the East-West differences in North America are more pronounced than the North-South.
For example going between California and British Columbia can be pretty comfortable. Yet going from California to Texas can be pretty shocking.
My major torment in Melbourne is not being able to get a consistently fantastic cup of drip coffee.
An extra large cup of the fresh stuff used to cost me $1.50 cnd, for half a liter of caffeinated goodness.
Now, a 'large' (250ml) flat white or long black sets me back $3.00au. ($1cnd ~= $1au at the moment).
The only Drip coffee alternative is Starbucks, which doesn't bother with non-espresso based coffees until 10am. The horror.
Back to the topic at hand, in reasons to re-locate:
America: 2 weeks vacation if you're lucky. Low tax.
Canada: 3 weeks vacation rather standard. Higher tax.
Australia: 4 weeks vacation guaranteed. Tax higher than CND, but on it's way to dropping to equivalent rates.
But hey, I could care less about taxes. Give me education and healthcare that works, cities that are clean, an approach with firearms that doesn't make ownership a right, and I'll happily shell out between 30-40%.
Hey, stop the google-hate!
A beautiful blonde female of French decent would cost you $1000 per hour in New York.
In Montreal, it will run you $150.
That is the real bargain.
I don't read or respond to AC posts
overall you'll learn to apprecaiate being overtaxed, overworked, and underpaid ....
St-Catherine doesn't run through Old Montreal, it's further south a bit beyond Rene-Levesque
I live in Quebec...
;)
First, your french is really bad and I wasn't able to read the sentence as fast as the one before it. I'm not sure I understand what you meant.
As for the situation of people speaking only english, well, it depends where you live. In Montreal, it won't be a problem at all. In fact, it's rather english speaking people who are touchy about their language. I don't speak english well, but many times I'm force to speak english because some people refuse to speak french (even if they know enough of the language).
That being said, the real problem is more a question of racism. Some people here don't really like Americans. If you're the kind of people who like to drive with a small american flag on your car... you'd better have a private parking place. On the other end, if you keep a low profile and try to learn some word of french, everything will be all right.
Hello, eh.
I am Canadian and I'm going to tell you what corporate Canada is all aboot eh. We have this cool day called Jean Cretien day, in which we celebrate our last Prime Minister, Jean. We all have lots of donuts that day and talk about hockey, but the catch is, its in French. Another thing to be aware of is that we have Naked Fridays at all companies. Its not only a good idea, but its the law. You have to freeze your bacon off in your coporate igloo though. Anyhow, thats corporate Canada for you. Hope you like it.
PS I really am Canadian, eh.
Cliff, Sysadmin jobs are few and far between these days, but things are improving here in Toronto. There was a 3 year drought here, but new positions are gradually beginning to open in the GTA (Greater Toronto Area) - I still have colleagues in Calgary, Ottawa and Montréal; things are horrendous in terms of new position openings.... Workopolis would be the place to go for signs of recovery fyi. Cheers
"Do, however, spend a few months watching DVDs with the language track set to French beforehand."
This is offtopic, but what the hell. Does anybody else find it totaly retarded that even if you live someplace like CA where there are millions (tens of millions?) of spanish speakers and maybe, say, four or five french speakers that most of the DVDs come with French language tracks and not spanish ones? WTF!
--HC
So I'm jump'n up and down screaming show me the money.
Oh and don't forget the French, those whacky French speaking Canadians make the real French seem practically friendly.
And yes I did actually work in Canada for 6 months made me glad to come back to my job in the states.
Glad you did buddy.
There are clearly not a whole lot of posters here from Vancouver. It's the best part of Canada, and we get snow like one week a year. It's beauty warm now and has been for some weeks, and will be till mid October!
Québec has good beer like
"La maudite"
"La fin du monde"
"L'eau bénite"
Peameal bacon is rolled in corn meal and tends to be somewhat saltier. The corn meal rim gets crisped when the rim of fat fries, adding a texture component to the flavour.
Backbacon is usually less salty, sometimes more smokey, and has no corn meal.
Both are made using pork tenderloin, so they're very low fat, more like a mini ham steak than greasy side-pork bacon.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
No. But as a society, we feel that everyone who lives in our society deserves equal access to healthcare, and that those of us who can pay will pay.
We decided tp collectively pitch in and make sure everyone has equal treatment by the healthcare system.
Just like we decided everyone gets to use the roads and walk the streets, even though some people are "Freeloaders" who do not pay to maintain them.
Just like the local footbridge across the river.. even those from out of town or those with no jobs still get to use it, even though it was the property owner's of the city who's property taxes paid for that bridge and it's maintenance.
Nobody said this was a "natural right". It is a right we decided to grant each other.
Officially "Canadian" bacon is backbacon, but the truth is you may get either served depending on where you are. Foreigners who ask for Canadian bacon don't know the difference between peameal and backbacon, so they get whichever pork-tenderloin bacon the restaurant usually serves.
I do not fail; I succeed at finding out what does not work.
I'm glad they aren't armed here (Vermont) since they outnumber us humans two to one. I was just out with my crossbow (cheapy $90 120lb) but didn't get a good shot. I got a couple of huge ones last summer. We are loosing trees and our road is at risk of being washed away if the dam breaks. Called the game warden last year to ask what we could do, his answer: "Shoot 'em!". I love the contrast: shooting at nuisance wildlife at 5:30am and designing digital circuitry by 8:30am... I bet it is even better in parts of Canada in that regard.
90% of the wealth is in 2% of the pockets. Bummer to be in the majority.
what's wrong with making firearm ownership a right?
one of my favorite quotes on the topic (because it is true all too often. think of china where the communist government went so far as to outlaw kung fu. and i'm sorry, but wushu does not compare, honestly.) - "am armed person is a citizen, and unarmed one is a subject"
Everything I need to know I learned by killing smart people and eating their brains.
I will say it's still a pain in the ass, even if you own your own company. I think if the rules were straight forward, it might not be so bad, but nothing is straighforward!
One of the least pleasant places I've worked was a large insurance company (my first job - internal pc tech). I think it has something to do with the fact that any customers anyone actually has to deal with are immediately presumed to be criminals for making a claim at all combined with the fact that really there just isn't much that's fun about insurance.
Find something more fun. If you have other interests, try to find a company that does things that align with those. *Then* worry about what country its in, unless you're just fed up with living in the US in general. Don't go work for an insurance company in Canada and expect it to be magically 'fun', although traveling internationally and living abroad can be worth doing by itself.
I write code.
hockey tape???
A true Canuckistonian would know that everything is fixed by duct tape.
If you're an American who's lived for a couple of years in Australia, Canada is not too dissimilar.
Where Australia is mostly hot, Canada is mostly cold. But both have as much variety as the US. Canadians drive on the same side of the road as Americans, and are possibly the only people in the world who have found a use for the huge-ass 4WD cruise liners that the US churns out.
The similarities to Australia lie mostly in the culture. The people in both countries tend to be laid-back and secure, quieter than Americans, and more at peace with the world and each other. In both countries, you're less likely to be shot, attacked, segregated, shouted at, sued, advertised to by really excreble advertising every ten seconds, phoned by telemarketers, asked to join a cult or religion, or have politicians who start wars.
On the minus side, you will have politicians who join in others' wars.
Stability is a big plus in both Canada and Australia. People are less likely to fly off the handle over minor issues. People are more likely to tell advertisers and salespeople to shrivel and die, as they're quite capable of making purchasing decisions all by themselves.
Canadians got this mentality: If we can't make it better than the US so let's make it look complicated through burocracy.
.
Housing prices are outrageous, what you pay for a house in toronto is worth a ranch outside of austin if your standards are high.
Costumer service is inexistent, I've have to taken away my business from a lot of places and they don't care, the only company that keeps that is walmart, a lot of people hate it in Canada but there is still another big group that love it.
Discrimination is rampant from all points of views
A LOT of people don't even have full time jobs and that is putting poverty in Canada in the spot light.
No guns?, there are shooting ranges everywhere in Canada, the no guns image is a mirage, the raising of illegal guns in the streets is a reality and police forces won't be able to containt it.
Wheather is just as misarable as Canadians.
Another LOT of people are ALCHOHOLICS, people drive drunk and police doesn't even care, maybe because goverment know they do a so lousy job that is the only way to keep people busy with their miseries.
What about the seniors, those bitter asses who think own everything just because the are part of the goverment, Canada thinks first on their seniors than families, did you see the South Parl episode on the seniors... well that's canada, seniors killing people while they drive and free they go.
Politics laugh at people and all people do is grim and walk away. 15 years of ditactorship are proof of that.
During the G-8 meeting there always have been a lot of rockus but in Cowgary it was just a sheep parade, even french canadians have more cojones than the rest of the country altogether, maybe canada is the petri dish of how people should be in the future lame asses with no brains with the false sense of inteligence they read a lot of books they don't know what are about just to shell themselves from dealing with other human beings and be more human nad caring and not the ice blocks they are.
Americans who come to Canada are hiding from creditors and say otherwise, of course those americans aren't worth a s*** and should stay out of america and be part of the third world mentality of the canadians.
Frauds are commited left and right and the goverment do nothing to protect those affected, maybe that's the reason a lot of people love Canada.
Don't be fooled for those here who say that love canada and everything is better/fine than the US, those are mermaid songs luring you to a miserable life.
Could anyone answer the same question, but for academic life? What do prospects look like for research-based jobs? I hear the University of Toronto has a pretty good CSC program.
Microwave oven you mean... according to two friends of mine who work at Tim Hortons.
Since they "standardized" everything to come from their central factory, all the local outlets have to do is zap them in the microwave to get rid of the ice and they're good to go.
"Microwave" Oven Fresh, just as the sign says!
Gods are for the fundies from the midle east and the
fundies from the west.
The christians fundamentalists like Fallwell,
Robertson and Bush dream of rapture day.
A life in heaven with Jesus if they kill
or convert many non believers.
The muslims fundamentalists dream of their 72
virgins. A life in heaven with Allah if they
kill or convert many non believers.
As has been pointed out in other posts, Canadian companies and work environments tend to be on the low end of the competitiveness scale. The preferred mindset seems to be "keep things steady and we will all have jobs for a long time." For most companies this works fine but it doesn't create a very challenging or interesting workplace. The government is the extreme example of this. If creativity or advancement are on your agenda you will probably be disappointed. Canada has far fewer start-up type companies because the markets are small and widely spaced. There just isn't the opportunity or the infrastructure to support many really dynamic companies.
most of us are foreigners up here and I guess a few more enlightend souls is always welcome..
{ Pillar candles great for when the power fails and you cant see the keyboard..
YANKEE GO HOME!
I'm a Canadian. I've lived on the West Coast, in Winnipeg, and in Eastern Ontario. I also spent a year in the U.S., living in L.A. (Pasadena), and have been close to several Americans over the past 15 years.
I've worked in the public sector (universities and health care as a medical physicist) and in the private sector (largish public software company, several smaller private firms.) I now own my own company (http://www.predictivepatterns.com).
In one of my previous positions the company was run by Americans but staffed by Canadians, and it made me acutely aware of the cultural differences between the two countries. The Americans wanted cheer and ethusiasm. The Canadians weren't having any. They produced solid results, but they just couldn't be all happy and excited about it, and they found the Americans' attitudes extremely wearing. The Canadians' attitudes drove the Americans nuts.
So an American coming to Canada shouldn't be fooled by the fact that most of us speak something like the same language and have some other similarities. Canadians are different. We are more small-c conservative and more small-l liberal. We are stupid and wasteful in less obvious ways than Americans. We own lots and lots of guns but hardly ever shoot anyone with them.
Our national govenment is the only one in the G8 that has its fiscal house properly in order--we have run a surplus for long enough that I can't remember offhand the last time we had a deficit (sometime in the mid-90's) and we are steadly paying down our national debt. Most provincial governments are in less good shape, but still take fiscal probity seriously.
As a business-person, I love it here. You can incorporate nationally on-line for a total of $220. The federal government is a world-leader in supplying services electronically. Labour laws are a lot tighter here than in the U.S., but the work-force is generally well-educated and even unions are a lot more reasonable than they were 20 years ago. Taxes are somewhat higher, but this is largely compensated for by not having to pay for private health insurance.
The per-capita cost of health care is significantly lower in Canada than the US. We have a three-tier health care system, in which basic service is paid for via taxes, small levels of enhanced service are available for relatively small fees, and the very rich have U.S. hospitals ready to serve them right across the border.
The basic level of care for a wide range of things is as good or better as the U.S. average, but it's widely recognized that the basic health-care system is increasingly broken. If how we dealt with the federal deficit is any indication, there will be a decade of sometimes quite nasty debate that will end in a fairly broad concensus on what to do, and we'll do it.
Americans sometimes see that we are polite, and think us weak. They see that we are calm, and think us passive. They see that we are content, and think us stupid. They are wrong on all counts.
--Tom
Blasphemy is a human right. Blasphemophobia kills.
umm... the thing about Canadian health care and unions is it's great in theory
but between paying for everyone to send their kid with a cold to emergency, lack of nurses (apparantly US pays them more) and unions always stricking, health care isn't the canadian trump card it used to be
The Neo-Bohemian Techno-Socialist
And the US is a democratic republic, but it's capitalist too. You can be Socialist and Democratic, or you can be Capitalistic and a Dictatorship (though not very well). Political systems are different than economic, genius.
I'm not arguing over the merits of tax funded healthcare. Only over the definition of "right". You broaden that too much and you suddenly end up with a bunch of people demanding their "rights" to all sorts of spurious things, like broadband access, banks that stay open later, and three-items-or-less lanes at the grocers.
Don't blame me, I didn't vote for either of them!
If you like the idea of the same corporate 9-5, often with lots of unpaid OT. The same Corporate pointy haired uninformed miscreants which is typical of the normal IT Project / Dept. Manager
All that, plus half the income and more than twice the taxes.. massive deductions for things you will likely never be able to reclaim (CPP, EI), then for good measure add another 15% on top of any services or goods you buy while there.
Good healthcare mind you. More open space. Completely comical Political scene.
We have excellent beaver, make great poutine, can drink and be merry. say "eh" and "out and about" a lot.
Draw your own conclusions.
During the October Crisis in 1970 in Canada the FLQ (Front de Libération du Québec) ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FLQ ) terrorist group kidnapped two public officials in Quebec ( http://www.bonjourquebec.com/anglais/ ) and murdered one, and Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau ( http://www.clevernet.on.ca/pierre_trudeau/ ) invoked the War Measures Act ( http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/War-Measu res-Act )suspending civil liberties.
In fact, the Canadian Goverment ( http://canada.gc.ca/ ) was worried that the FLQ wanted to steal nuclear weapons ( http://tinyurl.com/3ysev ). So the whole WMD and terrorism thing predates Mr Bush by 30 odd years... And the Canadian "War on Terror" is well over....
"Omnis tuus capsa sunt inesse nos"
god don't people hate the truth? point out the obvious, that daddy bush was covering his enron-deep ass by getting his old cia buddies to arrange 9/11, and you get modded down to -1; but if you lie your ass off and say that clinton was a fucker and all dirty sand nigger a-rabs should be killed then you get a +5,000,000 informative/insigthful/cocksucker...but never offtopic...
> Canada *dosnt have* an "inferitority complex" as
> much as USAians are incapable of seeing us
> WITHOUT *their* Superiority Complex -- get it?
> The USAians are projecting... and it speaks more
> to your hubris than our opinion of the world --
> get it?
The silly comment quoted above reminds me of my favorite Canadian joke:
Watch DVD's with the French language track?
Are you insane? Those movies are in proper French - dubbed by actors in France for the international version, they are not dubbed in Quebec French (the languages have evolved entirely differently in the last near 500 years). Its like telling a German that they can begin to pickup British English by watching American DVD's.
Its the worst thing you can do, you learn the language but sound like a moron!
How's the herb in Canada?
That article that you keep posting refers to government spending on health care. The parent suggested going to a private doctor and paying cash. You will get better treatment that way. There are a lot of small doctor offices opening up in the US that don't even accept any sort of insurance. I'd much rather pay $100 out of my own pocket for a checkup with a private doctor than pay a $10 copay to see a doctor that sees 50 patients a day just to get the money from insurance companies.
I'm a Canadian and must point out that the weather will affect you win ways you never considered. Depending on how far north were talking about. Southern Ontario is like the northern states but go to the weather network website and look at the average yearly weather patterns of the cities you're considering and decide if you want to hack those conditions. Considered BC because they kinda get the best of both the summer and winter world.
Also make sure that you're going to meet the requirements for getting a SIN number that will let you work. (Not easy with the level of Asian competition from main land Chain these days. (Seem stupid that we don't let Americans and Canadian move freely within North America. It's not like ether sides is going to rush over the boarder)
Various statistics - including the Canadian government's web site - note that there about 3.3 times as many guns per person in the US as in Canada.
Do some research if you don't believe it - you'll find it's true. Regardless of your opinion, the fact remains that Americans have a much higher rate of gun ownership.
> Is that why the Ontario government and Princess Margaret Hospital
> sent more than a thousand backlogged cancer patients to Roswell Park in
> Buffalo - because of how well the Canadian system works?
Yes, actually - because of how well the Canadian system works THESE PEOPLE ARE GETTING TREATMENT!
Contrast that to the 44 MILLION Americans who have no health insurance right now. Contrast the two scenarios:
Canadian: "I'm sorry, we don't have room in this hospital, so we'll have to treat you at this other hospital."
American: "No health insurance? Too bad you've got cancer, here's a sample pack of Advil. Next!"
So long as the patient gets treatment, what does the precise location of the hospital matter?
I live in Windsor, ON and work in Dearborn, MI (a suburb of Detroit). My round trip commute is 54km/34mi or about an hour per day. I've had the opportunity to work in both countries, and I've noticed a few differences:
:)
- There is definitely more career opportunity in the U.S. It also seems easier to shine (not just *my* opinion), probably because with such a vast economy, there is plenty of opportunity to hire some real duds.
- You'll almost definitely make more money in the U.S. I enjoy the best of both worlds, paid in U.S. dollars, yet live in lower-cost Canada. Taxes are higher in Canada, but housing, utilities and food is somewhat lower.
- U.S. medical coverage is wonderful, as long as you have insurance. The Canadian system is actually quite good, except for certain types of procedures where there are unacceptably long waits. (I love having medical coverage in both countries.) Yes you pay for the Canadian system in terms of taxes, but don't lose sight of all the co-pays and hidden fees that come with most U.S. insurance programs. A coworker of mine recently had an extended stay in a U.S. hospital, and all those little fees added up to over $1000 USD.
- Culturally, I notice a few small differences in general, but most of the people I work with in the U.S. are wonderful, equally nice as the folks I've worked with in Canada. Canadians in general seem to be a bit more polite (seems hard to get a "you're welcome" out of many Americans), and Americans are definitely more confident and aggressive (which probabaly explains their business success). But most of the stereotypes mentioned here are just wrong in my opinion.
Work in Canada or the U.S.? It's really a matter of personal taste. You can't lose, as long as you work hard and find a nice place to work, I think you'll live very comfortably in either country.
By the way - those who said it's difficult to work in Canada are wrong. Computer folks under NAFTA have plenty of ways to obtain employment in either country.
-Steve-
I am currently living and working in Canada - I immigrated from the Netherlands.
My experience is that Canadians
- do not want to use their brains,
- are hypocrites (form over substance),
- and are lazy.
> Sure the system in Canada is in many ways inferior to the US, but it is absolutly free
p are040504
No, actually - at least in BC there's a sliding scale based on how much you earned last year, with anyone earning a decent amount (~$25k+ or so) paying the full amount (~$400). Not that not paying would stop you from getting treatment - it'd just get the government hassling you to pay your bills.
It's worth noting that not only is the Canadian system much less expensive overall (57% of the per-capita spending as the US), it's also pretty much on par with the US's system, at least in the 21 indicators used in a recent international study: http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/05/04/sci-tech/com
Yes, Canadian health care isn't perfect, and that imperfection kills people, but apparently it's about as good as much more expensive systems, and it's that good for everyone.
All that bashing about Quebec because of its language ... that simply amazes me.
Do you realise that almost every non English countries in the world has to learn English, at least the base ? Now, just how self centric are you to not even be willing to learn something new ?
And by the way, Spanish is usually spoken faster than French. I speak French, English, Spanish, Italian, German and Russian, in that order, so I think I know what I'm talking about here.
Intelligence shared is intelligence squared.
> I suppose that you would also contend that the reason the U.S. has
p are040504).
> better healthcare for a lower cost than anyone else in the world
You have no idea what you're talking about.
Healthcare in Canada costs 57% of what it does in the US (CDN$2792 vs. CDN$4887 in 2001) and is quite comparable in quality according to a major recent international study ( http://www.cbc.ca/stories/2004/05/04/sci-tech/com
AND that's to give full healthcare to everyone, while the US leaves 44 million people uninsured and in danger.
Please - if you're going to "correct" people, try to have some acquaintance with the facts.
Guess I must be a wee bit over the average ...
I wouldn't entirely agree with your assessment. I think you missed an important difference between Canadians and Americans, although you alluded to it in your last point:
> "As Canadian as possible, under the circumstances."
Being a Canadian living in the US, the number one difference I feel is that everything is so polarized in America. For example, pro-gun/anti-gun people don't see how they often agree (such as wanting to lower crime and make people safer); instead, I've seen them accuse each other of committing literal _murder_ just by supporting their respective beliefs!
In Canada, cooperation and compromise are virtues. If you get 90% of what you want and I get 90% of what I want, that's often a better outcome than one of us getting 100% and the other 0%.
In the US, it always seems like cooperation and especially compromise are seen as signs of weakness. Competition - me above all - seems to be the virtue here.
Competition is valuable, but is simply not the answer all the time. Game Theory - the Prisoner's Dilemma - trivially shows how unbridled competition can lead to an inferior outcome. But in an adversarial, hyper-competetive culture - like it seems the US is sometimes - screams of "me!" drown out suggestions of "we", and everybody loses.
That's the biggest difference I've found, and I think it's a pretty big one. Seems small at first, but the ramifications... Honestly, the ramifications are unfolding on the world stage as we speak. And they're not all pretty. You can get away without compromising when you're the world power, but it won't make you well-liked.
Yup
-- "At Microsoft, quality is job 1.1" -- PC Magazine, Nov. 1994
I'm from Vancouver Island (so far west it's off the continent), and whenever I go to Vancouver (Not quite as west -- About as west as Seattle) I'm struck by how stuffy everything is.
Last time I was in Montreal, several girls asked me if I wanted to get laid eventhough I was with my girlfriend
;)
I'm not sure what part of the USA you're from, but up here, we call those "Prostitutes". Some of them are pretty open minded, hence, approaching a couple, instead of a single man.
Maybe these girls liked your friend, and were willing to let you join in for extra
Well, I guess I'll speak for the 'middle' of Canada, being a native Winnipegger. Central Canada for the most part is a wide open, friendly place with a significantly lower cost of living than Vancouver, Toronto or Montreal. Taxes are taxes, and for the most part their national so not much I can say about that. The only hard part is that the weather can be very harsh on the prairies, and its what drives most new immigrants away quickly. If you stick through it though it grows on you.
Central Canada is for the most part very sunny, and summer highs get up into the mid 30s celcius (I don't know farenheit, but its about low 90s to mid 90s I think). The winter will drop as low as -40 (celcius or farenheit) and down to -50 celcius if you factor in the wind.
This is not a sig.
Scandinavians are proud that they have the freedom to enter the property of others.
The same is true in the US, freedom is the presumption. That is, anything not specifically prohibited is allowed.
This extends to private property. Unless someone has posted their property 'no trespassing' or told you to leave/don't enter personally, you are free to cross their land without fear.
Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms should be the name of a store, not a government agency.
hey, better to be in the Canadian military than the US military, eh?
-- not a fortunate son
True, though Telus doesn't mind sending looking up your name from your IP and sending you an e-mail:
"We are writing to inform you that TELUS has received a complaint that alleges that your TELUS Internet Service account has been involved in copyright infringement. This complaint was traced back to your account based on the IP address used at the time of this activity.
Please note that TELUS has not provided any of your personal account information to the complainant. It is TELUS' policy to disclose such information to a complainant only if ordered to do so by a court of law, which has not happened to date.
Below is an excerpt from the complaint that we received regarding your account. We include it in this notice in an effort to help you identify the activity that is in question.
...unless you become an errant (homeless, beggar, call it all you like, yet i prefer a more poetic term =P ), which, in montreal and canada in general, is definitely the way to go!! ;-)
Stupidity + Globalization = Mass Destruction
Narcotics + No Understanding Of Economics = Stupidity
Hardly. British English is picking up many an Americanism these days... 'if I would have chosen to go out'... (shudder). If you learnt American English and spoke it over here, things would be fine. I do, after all watch The Simpsons, and some other people watch Friends (shudder). Also, it depends where you learn it... in New England, the English spoken is very similar to that in England.
== Jez ==
Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
And I'm glad that you point out how monsterously degrading this sordid behaviour was to the Iraqui inmates. These men are from a civilization who do not normally even let their wives see them naked. Public nakedness, and especially the exposing of male genitals to a female stranger is humiliating beyond description. I cannot believe my country did this to fellow human beings. This reprehensible activity will most certainly be punished, and unfortunately more Americans will now perish because of these evil acts committed in the name of George W. Bush. We have just rallied the entire Islamic world behind the Iraquis, something even Hussein and Bin-Laden were unable to do.
This is one of those times when I am truly ashamed to be an American.
Obviously the DVD manufacturers are messing with us because I live in Quebec and I own a few DVDs with english and spanish tracks only.
I'd like to point out that all the posts here suggesting Canadian life is better are rated Informative, and all the posts here suggesting American life is better are rated Trolls. Real objective rating here guys.
Now, just how self centric are you to not even be willing to learn something new ?
In the alternate universe where that was what was said, your comment would have made sense. Here in the real world where all the poster said was that you should practice up on French if you want to go to Quebec (which is the exact opposite of what you accused the poster of saying, your response was insulting and uncalled for.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
Now, American bourbons on the other hand, are some damn fine potables.
There are a lot of costs that come into play because of having an official second language.
All software sold to the government and most industry must be NLS enabled just to deal with the language requirements. While it makes it easier to support other language and regional translations, it does add a fair bit to the coding efforts compared to english-only business programming.
The non-french majority tends to get a touch annoyed at the seperate schools, seperate classes, etc. that are funded out of the general district pool. With such a low population percentage, there tends to be a much higher cost per student for the french programs, and much lower student-teacher ratios. With our crushing tax burden, people get right ticked about such wasteful spending, especially when it means cutbacks for the majority of students to fund the minority.
Add in to that federal employment requirements that you must speak french, and people around here are starting to get pretty pissed off. Unemployment is rather high in the west, but the federal government is paying to move Quebecois new hires to fill federal positions out here, rather than hiring some of the unemployed locals.
The final insult is the outrageous salary levels federal union employees receive compared to most local jobs. Compared to standard compensation packages, federal employment is platinum plated, but it's off limits to the majority of Canadians.
In compensation for all the expense and special treatment, english-speaking Canadians get to enjoy having their own right to communicate officially trampled by the Quebec language laws. There have been dozens upon dozens of nazi-jackboot demands by the language police.
In other words, you only have rights if you're from Quebec. The rest of us are screwed because the English decided to sign a treaty instead of wiping out the last shreds of resistance a few centuries ago.
The difference may not be so much between Canada and the US as it might be between large cities and small cities. Corpoate culture also depends on the company concerned. Heavily sales-oriented companies who live today and die tomorrow are always pressure cookers and tend to burn people out as part of the business plan for constant renewal. The downside is they have limited institutional memory and are the corporate equivalent of the gibbering idiot who never learns from mistakes. You probably really want to either start your own business or join a small company with people you like and get on well with. Corporates suck. All of them. I worked for several over the past 25 years and there is very little to redeem "corporate life". It comes close to being an oxymoron akin to "military intelligence".
Only boring people are ever bored.
Slightly off-topic note about subtitles:
:-)
Subtitles are never the same as the actual spoken dialog.
Try watching closed-caption TV sometime, where the dialog is (almost) always reproduced exactly.
Note how much space they take up. Note how difficult it is to read all of them while still following the action. Of course the hearing-impaired probably get used to this quickly enough, but if you're not used to it it's really difficult.
When subtitling a movie, you have a very small amount of space in which to convey the dialog in a way that "fits" with the feeling of the movie. And you have to be careful that your audience will have a realistic shot at actually reading them before they make space for the next lines.
Add to that all the normal difficulties of translation.
So, actually, yes, movies that have both dubbed (synchronized) and subtitled versions in a particular language are translated twice (though often the subtitle translation is based on the other). They are two completely different kinds of translation, each with its own requirements.
I've watched director friends go through the subtitling process, and it's a semi-private hell of compromise.
Anyway, as long as I'm digressing here, one more tip: for language learning, if you're not yet up to watching foreign-language films in the original with subtitles off, the next best thing is to watch films you already know very well, dubbed into the language you're trying to learn.
Although talking to people is still better.
This Like That - fun with words!
From the CIA factbook (and the *CIA* is not likely to be biased against the US!):
Canada: life expectancy at birth 79.83 years
United States: life expectancy at birth 77.14 years
I'd say the Canadian health care system isn't too much worse than the American. (Check out the infant mortality statistics if you want another eye-opener.)
Actually, I'm a Sys. Admin. for a large, internationally-focused mining contractor based out of Northern Ontario. Get used to the Friday beer club idea. Best relaxation technique EVER. Enjoy floor hockey with your co-workers at lunch 3 days a week. Enjoy the opportunity to train whenever possible. Enjoy the cleaner air, no matter WHERE you are (except for the cesspool that is Toronto) Drink Molson Canadian. It's what to drink while chasing beaver. Appreciate the fact you can drive 20 minutes to a decent campsite, and 40 minutes to the middle of nowhere. Gang violence is limited by and large to the major metropolitan areas, so your car will actually outlive you. Or is it the other way around? Enjoy getting paid what you're worth, and enjoy working for people that appreciate you.
One of the 187.
Moving TO Canada? What a fool...
Having worked on both sides of the border, and being a Canadian citizen, I can tell you the only three things that keep a person in Canada are: 1. family, 2. incompetence, or 3 both. I fall into the #3 category.
But think of all the things you have to look forward to: higher taxes, less freedom, horrible health-care (it's illegal to have private coverage here), and a media even more leftist than France.
=U= "Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you"
I moved to Canada from Silicon valley in California.
California has pretty high taxes, but Canada has REALLY high taxes. It doesn't take that high of a salary to get up into the 50% tax bracket. Also, keep in mind that the sales tax in Ontario is 8% and that is on top of the GST (Goods and Services Tax) tax of 7% for a whopping 15% sales tax. That, remember, comes out of your NET earnings. There are few tax havens and gov't fees everywhere for everything under the sun.
Housing here in the greater Toronto area is not cheap and is getting more expensive by the day. A small place with almost no yard will set you back about$250k to $300k.
Sadly, with all these super high taxes, here in Toronto they can't even manage to keep the roads in fair shape. Pothole city.
The politics here in general are rather lefty, especially Toronto. If you have any political objectivity, you'll quickly note how left wing the CBC (based in Toronto) is. What this means for you is astounding amounts of social programs with absolutely no thought as to how to drive an economy to pay for them. Fortunately, the NDP (Nutcake Democratic Party) is currently rather marginalized.
If you are left wing, you'll like most of Canada. You wouldn't enjoy Alberta so much - it's more right wing.
If you enjoy Anti-Americanism at its best, give Quebec a try.
I recently heard from the US Consulate that Ontario has 250k Americans.
What about corporate culture here? I've worked around the world and corporate culture is pretty much the same everywhere you go. Business is business. There's no big company group hug here if that's what you're looking for. Comapany's are looking to make profit here just as much as anywhere else in the world.
Canada does have lots of freeloaders who don't pay taxes and milk the gov't programs.
Canada also has tons of National and Provincial parks. I wish I had time to go to more of them - they're big, beautiful, and generally well kept and well run.
Try it, you may like it here. At the very least, you'll learn more about the US by being out of it for awhile. Of course, after awhile, you'll also learn to ignore the constant anti-American whining here. Canadians have some serious identity issues and I've often thought that they define themselves not by the fact that they are Canadians, but by the fact that they are not Americans. Declaring what you are not doesn't tell you much about who you are.
It's not an analogy, stupid. He's pointing out a direct and literal counterexample.
Then you make a truly bad analogy, by comparing militant separatists to participants in a declared war.
Whatever.
It sucks that the US has made so many violent enemies in the world, including those in our own country. We all have our own enemies, even if Canada's enemies are fewer.
Assembly is the reverse of disassembly.
As a Brit who has worked in both US and Canada, I'd have to say Canada is a lot less screwed up than the US, but ultimately is dull and boring. Yes there are problems in the US but at least the US has an identity, unlike Canada. I found it a lot easier to make friends in the US and found people had much more sense of humour. The west coast/dot-com culture in US is great. In the US even some big companies do not ask "Does this person fit into our corporate culture". Its more like they care what you produce, not how you do it.
Having now returned to the UK I'm happy to say we've absorbed plenty of US dot-com culture, and many of our stuffy corporates are losing ground to more interesting organisations.
I have permanent resident card for Canada but can't bring myself to stay there. there's something profoundly missing from Canada. like a nation of people on prozac, never very sad, but never very happy. also heard it described as like a soup with perfect ingredients but no spice or flavouring. Brits and Americans can laugh at our own countries, because we know we're screwed up. Make a sarcastic comment about Canada and you'll get a frosty reception. there's a lot of great things about Canada. its just the people are so, er, weird! nice is not enough, you need personality as well.
Single geeky canadian female seeks rebelious anti-bush american geek for marriage and world domination.
---
I support spreading santorum
That must be the secret to how Canada became such an economic superpower. We Americans should learn from them.
I know you were trying to be sarcastic, but you're not that far off from the truth. When the dot-bomb bubble burst, The US went through (is still going through?) an extended recession. Canada did not. We actually didn't have a recession at all - simply a slowing in growth and some lost IT jobs. The economy as a whole kept on truckin'.
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
...you can marry a same-sex partner in Canada, and no-one will blink at the throught.
In fact, many Americans come to Canada to get hitched for just that reason.
Chaeron Corporation
If I do have the cash to hang out in Vancouver or Calgary for a while, how do I go about immigrating? From reading the canadian immigration website, it takes 6-16 months (!) to get a PR card, assuming you pass the tests and all that. If you are a US citizen, is there a faster route? Obviously I can just go up and chill, but eventually would need/want to work and buy a place and all that good stuff...
"If a person enters a hospital in the US the hospital must treat them for all serious problems wether or not they can afford to pay."
Or they might just lie and tell you your problem isn't serious, and hustle you out the door.
This happened to a relative. He had a stroke while visiting relatives out of town, and went to the emergency room still partially paralyzed. In case this ever happens to you, prompt treatment for strokes makes _all_ the difference. For him, treatment was viable for up to three hours after the event. In other cases, stroke treatments can be even more urgent.
They essentially refused to examine him and told him he'd had a TIA or Transient Ischemic Attack. A TIA is almost exactly like a stroke, but transient by definition; a short term event. They typically last as long as a few minutes. He had a stroke, and he'll never fully recover from the effects of that stroke.
He might be able to walk without a cane, or not have the personality changes he has had since then, if the ER doctors hadn't just given him the bum's rush.
Note: This man isn't insured, but he's a respectable looking guy who owns a beautiful house in a good part of town. He doesn't look like a hypochondriac, or someone looking for a bed for the night. He has typical risk factors for stroke, and should have been evaluated for a stroke, and actually treated for one. They didn't have to admit him for a TIA. If they had evaluated him more carefully, they might have had to treat him. Their diagnosis was one of convenience.
It's horribly ironic that he's the sort of guy that you'd want with you if you went to the doctor if you were sick. He'd make sure they treated you well and took you seriously. He's very friendly, and makes sure he knows everybody. He also knows how to get things done. Unfortunately, when he drove to the ER, he was brain-injured and not himself.
Wait. So, everyone learns English. I know English. What other language do I have to learn in order to communicate with most everyone? That's not self-centric, it's wisely spending my time learning things that are actually useful. :) (note, I do know Spanish, and you're right about the speed, but that's not really the point)
Thanks for the vote of confidence. I've become convinced that it's mostly because of the tag line, rather than the content of the posts themselves.
I agree that I should have said "handgun" rather than just "gun", but I doubt it would have made any difference. Without an endless diatribe about how the US government is even more rabidly anti-gun, and wants to install a medical monopoly that would make Canada's present one look like a model of personal choice, any statement about the negative impact of government control on peoples lives anywhere else is just setting ones self up for being called an ugly American.
Gun control and central planning did directly facilitate the attack in 2001. Security methods were mandated from On High, rather than individual airports and airlines deciding how to best handle the security of their passengers, so the attackers knew what worked in one airport would work in all of them. The passengers and crew were all disarmed, by law, regardless of the wishes of the passengers or the airlines, so a few guys with knives could be certain of not having their victims fight back.
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
Political systems are different than economic, genius.
http://www.tse.com/en/aboutUs/tse/
You were saying?
american: "we don't".
And that's not very clever, u know.
I don't have a sig.
Hey, in some ways Canada is a really great place. Much more intelligent marijuana policies, for instance, rather than the absurdities of the prohibitionist polypramatoi control freaks in the US. What I don't like is being forced to pay for other peoples medical choices, but every country has forced entitlements of one sort or another. The only difference is extent.
Unfortunately, the US is in serious decline. I figure I'll jump ship for China in not too many years, try to catch them in their ascendency.
Bob-
The Ludwig von Mises Institute. The reasoning individuals economics
I got lots more interesting links where those came from.
Good observation on RenCen service... I worked in that area for a few years and I noticed the same thing. (It would be difficult to miss.)
As you may know, Detroit's history is a bit complicated (usually reducing to "too much, too soon") and marked by racial tensions. That has much to do with what you observe.
the bacon. Never heard of the beer, but we're the country of Carlsberg... (though I prefer our much less known Faxe).
Funny little fact about Carlsberg: It's a super-danish beer, but the place it's named after is now in Germany (due to voluntary annexation after an election!). Oh, and the brewer who dubbed the hill Carlsberg proudly named it after his own son, Carl. Who then grew up and started his own brewery, that became Carlsberg's biggest competitor. And was (a century) later bought by Carlsberg.
Very odd, indeed.
Seeing as how the brunt of our major businesses are U.S. owned companies, don't expect that large of a difference. Minimum wage will be better, but I don't think that's really gonna matter to ya.
We certainly dont have anything like the patriot act
Uh, yes we do.
Like woodworking? Build your own picture frames.
I'm not sure what this means about copying a CD someone else bought to a tape, but copying a CD for a friend using digital audio equipment and audio cds is perfectly legal, and copying an audio tape to another audio tape is also legal. We pay a "tax" to the RIAA on every piece of digital audio equipment, audio CD, and audio tape to allow this per The Audio Home Recording Act of 1992.
in New England, the English spoken is very similar to that in England.
Yessuh, those English speak like us downeasters Ayuh!
oddly enough I pay 159 dollars a month for medicare, which i am ineligible to use.
My employer and I together pay 110 a month for my PPO service, which entitles me to go anywhere I want and I only pay 20% of the bill.
too bad I can't get that medicare money back, and subsidize my private plan, or place it in an investment account for when I am old and actually would use the money.
Bring back the old version of slashdot.
Canadian corporate life is different, not in the business model sense but certainly in the stress-level sense. The overall feel here is to provide a quality service or product; not crush the competition by beating them to the punch with a shoddy product that happened to come out first (M$ take note). The philosophy here is more geared toward a "proof's in the pudding" mentality with regards to capitalism.
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77 77 77 2e 6d 65 6c 76 69 6e 73 2e 63 6f 6d
I get a sweet rate from Farmer's auto here in Texas. Every competitive quote I've ever gotten has been orders of magnitude higher. No one can explain why, so I stick with Farmer's. Yay.
-l
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You're going to be shocked to find Home Depot everywhere. You'll also see McDonalds on every corner. Subway dominates the sandwich fast food market and Walmart is everywhere. You might notice a few different stores like Canadian Tire (Crappy Tire as it is affectionately called by the Canadians), Tim Hortons, and Revy.
The fact of the matter is that Corporate America is all over Canada. It's hard to tell at times what country you're in.
The easiest way to find out what country you're in is by getting hit by a car. If you die waiting for medical care in the emergency room then you're in Canada. If you get right in and are saved by the doctors which now own all of your earthly posessions then your in the USA.
You sound like a whiney bitch that is going to be miserable no matter where you live. As an American hater, you'll fit in well in places like Montreal. I wouldn't venture to Alberta or the Western provinces because they most likely will not share you're hatred of all things American.
If you're so disappointed with the way that "corporate America" has dealt with you maybe you should start your own company. That's what the USA is all about. It still is the land of opportunity.
Good luck in Canada. I doubt they'll accept you. There is no demand for whiney server admins with little to no ambition.
Thank you for showing everyone why we hate French Canadians.
"We are not important" "Terrorists would never attack us" "Helping the US is not significant"
* Cost of living is cheaper in Canada overall--Houses cost a bit less
As with all things, this will vary. Housing in the Toronto area is notoriously expensive as compared to many other parts of Canada. I live in the States just on the other side of Lake Ontario. I have lots of Canadian friends.
Hockey Night in Canada need I say more ?
Sanity is the trademark of a weak mind. -- Mark Harrold
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In a small company there's no where to hide, and people have to pull their weight. I think there are more people playing games than working at corporations all over the world, definitely including Canada.
As an American who learned French after moving to France five years ago, I find it easy to communicate in French because so many English words are French cognates. Once I caught on to French pronunciation, I suddenly understood a lot because I recognized many words that are very similar or the same in English. When speaking, if I don't know the French word for something, I sometimes try using the English word pronounced with my best approximation of a French accent. Often this works.
Cognates help in reading as well. Take a look at this sentence from an article in today's Le Monde online newspaper: Nearly every word in that sentence could be recognized by an English speaker.
- Le candidat = the candidate
- démocrate = democrat
- estime = feels, (related to the English word esteem, which as a verb has the same meaning)
- la politique = the politics
- président = president
- américain = american
- Irak = Iraq
- coûté = cost, (the circumflex accent indicates an unwritten 's' that follows the letter)
- Etats = States
- Unis = United
- respect = respect
- influence = influence
All together, the sentence in English is:Try thumbing through an English dictionary sometime and look at the etymology of words. Many, if not a majority, of English words come from French.
As for the differences between Canadian-French and French-French, I've never been to Quebec, but I've never had trouble conversing with Quebecois in French.
Please clarify. What exactly make you hate French Canadian ? The fact that someplace, some people speak something else than English ?
:wq
Here is Canada, owning a gun is a privlidge, not a right (just like driving)
In the US, owning a gun is a right, which cant (easily) be removed. Note: Driving is still a privlidge in the US
They tend to rather touchy about their quaint local legacy language.
I suppose that little gem what not insulting to anyone in your universe ...
Intelligence shared is intelligence squared.
I am trying to get my family of 3 to Canada from the US. This thread has been the most hopeful to me. I have been trying to look for work in Canada for about a year.
I am also saving the required amount of money for a family of 3 to get to Canada if I did not have a job (but I should still come in as Skilled Worker). Since being laid off from the dotcom salaries and having to pick up a job that paid 79% less in less than a month, I have tightened our budgets since then. I have recently started a contract gig with a well-known software company and with that money and our tight budget, I should be able to save the money in no time.
I wanted to say thank you to everyone who posted on this thread. You have made a would-be Canadian (yes I will become a citizen as soon as I can) very happy and even more prepared.
On a lighter note, I think I am prepared socially:
1. Being part of a mixed couple (Korean/Scottish and African-American), Toronto sounds keen.
2. By not a fan of the cannabis achieva but know a lot of people who do, Vancouver sounds keen.
3. With hockey is my favorite sport, Vancouver, Calgary, Edmonton, Toronto, Montreal, Ottawa sounds keen
4. Rush is one of my favorite rock bands of all time.
I think I am ready for Canada.
ChozSun
ChozSun.com
Wrong. Most Region 1 DVD have been translated in Quebec. Why I know ? Because they keep the same (Quebec) actor to dub Hollywood celebrities in every movies, and I recognize them. It's funny to watch Brad Pitt but hear Alain Zouvi (a totally different type of actor) speak.
Feel free to point to specific movie whose translation have been done in Europe, though.
:wq
Thanks for your reply and interesting information. Where else but Slashdot could anyone have learned this?
Thank you for your extended reply.
I've always thought that because of the high ratio of cognates that French should be easy to learn. There probably is a point of exposure to the language where the one can hear the cognates through the pronounciation differences. At that point, comprehension and structure begin to take place. The spoken phonetics become understandable words.
A problem for learning languages in the US is that one never hears them, with the exception of Spanish. In twenty years of living on the west coast of the US, I've heard French spoken twice, both times on the bus. Hardly anyone here is aware that Canada is actually two nations in one country and that the entire linguistic environment changes at the Quebec border.
Exposure to French on the west coast is all but nonexistant. The only way to hear the language is to get videos of old 'New Wave' films by Truffaut and Godard from the library, switch the DVD audio track to French (if it exists), or use internet radio streaming to link into a Montreal radio station.
I've just about given up putting any effort into learning French because there is so little use for it. Except for once every five or ten years when I go to Quebec or France and find that I can almost understand what is being said but actually comprehend nothing.
Anyway, I believe that the reason that French and English have so many cognates is because the Normans from NW France ruled England from 1066 to the 1400s? and forced all government business to be done in their language and Latin. That statement assumes that the Normans spoke a version of French, which might not be true.
Slashdot is a place where one can throw out wild and unsubstanciated claims that one suspects are true and get blasted as a complete idiot by people who actually do know what they are talking about. It's better than saying the same thing at a party and being made a fool in real life.
Thanks again for the reply.
Thanks for the reply.
I suspect that in about thirty years we will have glasses that will 'project' the subtitles in near-real time of our conversations with people that are speaking different languages.
A big part of the algorythm for doing these titles will be the compromise of getting the essential core of the dialog, as you have pointed out is done with the subtitle process in today's films.
Thanks again for your reply.
Technology writer George Gilder once said that the only languages that one needs to know to be successful are English and C++.
Language translation will probably be the next 'killer ap' for 64 and 128 bit, 100 GigaHertz computers that we will have on desks in ten years. It may be too early to start companies to do this now, but in five years it will be a major money maker for the information technology industry.
Thanks for your reply to my message.
Thank you for your reply.
Most Americans are humbled and intimidated by other people's ability to master languages. They hide it with a false projection of linguistic ethnocentricism.
I'm always amazed that Americans will assume that someone from the USA who learns a hundred words of, say, an Asian language is considered a genius (especially if they are African-American in background) while a person from Asia who isn't fluent in English is 'slow'. It seems to be an unconscious form of racism that gets missed until pointed out.
Possibly the reason that it is so much fun to bash the people in Quebec about their language is the obsession that they have about stopping English from creeping into general usage. Their language laws are unique for North America and are somewhat extreme. For example, no language but French allowed in any commercial signs. Here in the US we have entire shopping malls that are owned by friends, family, and organizations that are all of one ethnic background. And all the signs in all the stores will be in Korean, Chinese, Spanish, or Russian. I've never seen this in other countries. And it would be seriously illegal in Quebec.
Anyway, thanks for your reply.
You think Europe has no rednecks? Think again pardner. I see them over here all the time. Where do you think American rednecks came from? They migrated from Europe.
Europe isn't exactly immune to American cultural influence, either. Arguably the most popular sitcoms, movies, and music in France are American.
I love the "Canadian healthcare kills people" argument. American HMO bureaucracy and denials of coverage (not just *delays*, but DENIALS) kill people too. So what's your fucking point? Or do we all need to sit here and throw isolated anecdotes at each other?
Our own government admits that Canadians have better health hopes than Americans:
America:
Death rate:
8.44 deaths/1,000 population (2003 est.)
Infant mortality rate:
total: 6.75 deaths/1,000 live births
Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 77.14 years
Canada:
Death rate:
7.61 deaths/1,000 population (2003 est.)
Infant mortality rate:
total: 4.88 deaths/1,000 live births
Life expectancy at birth:
total population: 79.83 years
They manage to beat us at every reasonably meaningful measurement of health and longevity, and they do it without privatization!
Though they don't leave more money in *your* pocket; and therefore, as a strategy of national interest, it fails.
Note: the above numbers are not isolated to well-off conservatives.
Terrorists can attack freedom, but only Congress can destroy it.
Come to Alberta. No PST (still have stupid 7% federal GST), flat 10% provincial income tax. Cost of living is among the lowest in the country. And the government is swimming in petro-dollars. On the downside a lot of Albertans are super-right-wing (by Canadian standards). And our Premier is a jerk (recently caught plagarizing).
Serve Gonk.
Any-country-in-the-world-ian: "do Americans *really* think?"
American: "we don't".
Worst BBC News Stories
I've got English down, but my C++ is kinda rickety (lack of recent practice will do that). I know Perl, though, and it'll compile down to something nearly as useful... ;) There's probably already a language translation module on CPAN anyway.
Please make the distinction between "private care providers" and "private insurance providers." It is the insurance industry that is killing Americans, not the care providers. Well, at least 99.5% of providers. (There are always those docs with handguns, don't forget.)
And I forgive your alliteration.
-- "Macsbug is not a screensaver."
. If you studied a little French in school because French was the cool language to study instead of studying Spanish (which is the only language that Americans should seriously consider studying as it's not even a 'foreign' language here anymore), well then, yes, check out Quebec
French as spoken in France and French as spoken in Quebec are somewhat different - imagine the difference between modern English and Shakespeare's English. For example, everyone in France says "le weekend". In Quebec, it's "le fin de semaine", which no-one in France says anymore. So, learning French French in school wouldn't have helped much anyway - you have to learn Quebecois French.
Of course it was insulting. But an insulting subjective opinion (calling a language quaint and legacy) is not on the same order of magnitude as an outright factual lie about a completley objective matter - which is what you were doing by claiming he was unwilling to learn the language after he just got done describing steps he took to learn the language.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
I currently work with Primerica, a member of Citigroup. The parent company is US-based (international), but the Primerica Life company operates out of both Canada and the US as separate companies to some degree. I've found the "corporate environment" to be unrivaled. This company has only the best in mind for all related parties. I love the place and will never leave. I highly recommend you go to your local office and check them out, esp. considering your background.
Best of Luck
-jcpii
"Compound interest is the most powerful force in the Universe." -Albert Einstein
So the good people shoot the bad people? Ya that's workin' real well in the states and it would be particularly effective on an airplane.
US foreign policy facilitated 9/11. Duh...
Thanks for the information, puppetman, and sorry to any Canadians I offended with my poorly-thought out comments. I'll try to be better informed next time rather than just go shooting off my big ignorant mouth.
You miss the point, as the Bush government also seems to do.
Machiavelli once wrote that a ruler can be either loved or feared, but - since people are fickle - fear is more reliable. The Bush administration seems to have taken this to heart.
However, Machiavelli never had to contend with people who can not be made to fear. If a zealot is willing - eager, even - to die for his cause, how can you possibly make him afraid? If your only policy instrument is fear, all you can do is antagonize him and goad him into attacking you.
The Bush administration needs to realize that fear and force are not complete policy instruments - there are problems that they _can not solve_. Short of genocide, there is NO WAY to use force and fear alone to get Iraq to do what we want.
Israel has tried force and fear to stop Palestinian terrorist attacks for _decades_, and without success. If this strategy has a proven track record of failure, why are we relying on it?
We want to avoid being disliked not because being liked is spiffy, but because being hated will lead directly to dead Americans. You can joke about it all you want, but the bottom line is that, until we learn to play nice with the rest of the world, our actions will continue to lead directly to dead Americans, and there's nothing we can do to stop that.
And in Victoria they have an anual New Years Day Blossom Count festival. My vegetable and herb gardens in Nanaimo grow year round (with slightly modified selection & some coldframes). Most of the populated parts of Vancouver Island are about as warm as the Oregon coast.
Did you just equate "more free" to "more European"?
I will have to imagine you mean free with regards to "we drink legally at a younger age and show breasts on broadcast television" (in which case you'd be right) rather than toleration of speech (in which case you'd be wrong.)
Gee, musta taken you all day to come up with that one
-1 Uncomfortable Truth