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Best Degree to Pair w/ a B.Sc. in Computer Science?
VeryCleverHandle asks: "I have held a Bachelor's degree in Computer Science for about two years now, and I want to further my education, and increase my marketability. I am wondering what kind of degree makes a good pair for my existing one. At first, I thought of a Master's, but in my searches for a job, I've rarely (read: never) seen a Masters degree required. I am also researching what kind of degrees others, who have obtained their Bachelor's, received to help complement their education. So I ask you, Slashdot: Which degree(s) do YOU think will go well with a Computer Science Bachelors?"
MBA. You've learned how. Now learn why. The resultant doubling of your earnings potential is just a sad side-effect you're going to have to learn to cope with.
trustedworlds.net - gaming, security, and the gunk that lives in between
While at high school I was aware that there were many different areas of computing, but what made me focus on a degree combining both computer science and electronic engineering was how well they compliment each other. When applying for a place at university, La Trobe courses were listed as my top 4 preferences. I was and still am very impressed with the quality of the course, industry collaboration, the focus on industry-accredited projects, the lifestyle and environment.
One of the most important aspects of my undergraduate course was that it focused on making people more employable by providing many opportunities to develop communication, research, practical and team working skills.
I completed my undergraduate course last year and immediately found employment as a graduate engineer with Vision Systems Limited. While working for Vision Systems, I decided to pursue a postgraduate qualification by research at La Trobe. Because of La Trobe's commitment to encouraging industry collaboration and research, I was able to arrange to undertake a research topic that was of interest to my employer. Thus, currently I am doing my Master of Engineering by research, while working part time as an engineer. La Trobe is flexible enough to allow me to develop both academically and professionally.
A Business degree. After your 40th birthday, you may find it difficult to find new employment if the need arrises. If you've got a business degree and have moved in to managment, you'll probably find it easier. The pay will be better, too.
A Mathematics degree "plays" nicely with a CS degree, too.
I don't know about a degree, but I would recommend taking Hindi.
It could be worse, it could be Monday.
Why, you'll want your Master Certified Web Professional Certification, of course.
Entertain your users.
I drank what? -- Socrates
I would have to say the Biochemistry is your best bet. That whole area of research is becoming dependent of computer technology. Datamining is a large part of genetic research along with molecular modeling (proteins) and distributed computer systems. Also, take a look at SGI (www.sgi.com) and see what they are doing. Their core business is focusing on areas where computers and science converge.
An exploration of mixology, spirits and bartending.
Experience. Nothing even compares.
Inconceivable!
I find even discussions with a friend in a branch of advertising is hardly served by some of the applications available to him and after an hour talking about what he does and, seeing what he really needs to get through a day, could probably whip together something simple that would do it, rather than the garbage in MS Office he has to wrestle with.
Consider the pros of taking a respectable understanding of technology into a career in law or politics, even.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Most pairable degree with Computer Science: Mathematics. Affinity for math tells employers you're capable of high level, abstract thought.
MBA. You're exactly who it was invented for, not the alreay have a BBA and don't want to get a job types that I see in business school. Or you could go EE which is a good pairing as well, I have friends who did that and have done very well for themselves.
...where you can learn manners, grooming, and human interaction.
BS in common sense from the university of hard knocks
I would think it would depend on what parts of CS appeal to you - for example, a degree in Math tends to be a good augmentation to a CS degree if you were going into Data Analysis, or databases. But if you were writing a physics engine, a Physics degree would be useful. Generally, I would say that a Math or Business degree would be a good augmentation.
You could go with another science degree: Physics, Biology, Chemistry, or Math and work at a national lab.
If you don't actually like programming and you want to be a project lead, go with the MBA.
If you want to go towards hardware development, maybe linguistics would be a good area of study.
You need to help define a Niche to market your programming skills. Doing a commerce degree or a Biological sciences degree would help you to get into a more specialized field. You don't need to get this training from a university, a two-year diploma would be enough.
Definetly Physics.
Mainly because im doing Physics, but also because umm you can do government software?
I find an MS is statistics most useful to pair with my info science degree.
So long and thanks for all the fish . . . !!!
This wasn't another one of those posts where you had to read some long article and make comments. This is one of those "Do you like ice cream?" questions.
Go for the business degree, kid. Whatever you do in this world, there will always be a business manager over you (or working for you)
And yes, I do like ice cream.
You need to know about all these spirits to deal with computer successfully.
Not stricly a degree, but learn a real language (French/German/Japanese) and you can actually get some quite interesting jobs. Worst case scenario, you'd be translating software or giving foreign language tech support, but employers quite like people with language skills for some unknown reason.
If you're looking at eventually rising through the ranks into management and executive positions, an MBA would be a good idea.
If you want to be a tech for the long haul, perhaps a degree in mathematics.
Whatever you do, remember also that communication skills are important. You're not typically taught them in college (at least not very well); but your advancement will to some degree depend on them.
Hot Damn! It's the Soggy Bottom Boys!
Why not go for your MCSE? *ducks*
Well if programming is what you love and what you want to do for the rest of your life, why not focus on getting a degree in artwork? Sure we can all write hard-core programs and scripts that run from a command line, but what about our less-enlightened users who require a GUI and colorful buttons to do anything with their computer? To those users, appearance is VERY important, maybe even moreso than performance to some people. I wish I had time to focus on developing my art skills right now for personal reasons/projects, but I'm too busy writing esoteric Perl scripts...>_>
Hero of Allacrost, a FOSS RPG for *NIX/*BSD/OS X/Win
With a Comp Sci. degree and a Law degree, you can become a patent lawyer and make tons of cash (and be a pariah among nerds).
Come play Heroes of Might and Magic Mini online.
A language degree, specifically: Hindi
FunOne
then you'd be EVERY engineer's worst nightmare, a marketroid with an engineering degree but no engineering experience!
seriously. work in the industry for 5 years, then go back to school, experience is more valuable than any piece of paper.
The difference between Theory and Practice is greater in Practice than in Theory.
Carly had a Bachelors in medieval history but was able to become the CEO of a once impressive company because of her MBA. Not that she was any good at it but she did get a hefty severance package.
More
Psychology. Don't laugh, my Psychology minor has been extremely useful, particularly the classes that dealt with cognitive Psychology, which is directly applicable to human-computer interfaces. I intend to turn that into a full Bachelor's someday.
If you're into management, go for a buisness degree of some sort. If you want to work with hardware some, go for computer engineering. If you're looking at interface/graphics design, maybe an art degree. It really depends on what sort of projects you want to work on. If you're just in it for the money, the buisness degree is probably your best bet.
MBA, all the way.
I hate sigs.
If marketability and earning potential are your number one goals, take up an apprenticeship as a plumber. Plumbers are unlikely to be outsourced, and are always in demand. If, on the other hand, you want a job hacking, because you love hacking, there's no real need to go back to school.
Business and Computer Science is the way to go - Business focusing on investments. If you can trade and program, you'll be retired by 40.
If you want to do project management, etc, get an MBA.
You may also want to get a second bachelors in another field that interests you.
Consider ASIC design -- much of the coming problems at smaller technologies (sub 65nm) will be with the software tools we use. Software engineers with good chip design/methodology understanding will be in high demand.
1) Get a degree in a field that interests you.
2) Don't Get a degree to increase your "marketability", unless it increases your "marketability" in a field that you would want a job in. In which case, see (1).
A Masters degree in Quantitative Finance.
/. suggests.
YMMV. Pick a degree that compliments what you are interested in. Not what the consensus on
After all, you're gonna be the one stuck with the job that it leads you to. The degree could be a marketing MBA, or in Biochemistry or Astronomy, etc, etc.
But you've gotta be happy with it.
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You should never need to ask someone else what degree to pursue. Do what YOU WANT TO DO. Not what someone tells you will "fit nicely" with the degree you already have.
If you're going to college to get a degree simply to have the piece of paper to show your boss, you're going for the wrong reason. Pick something else to do.
If you can't decide on a field of study, you probably don't belong there.
I also earned my B.S. in CS, and went onward to grad school for CS. Took me one semester to realize my mistake, and switched into the MBA program. Am now looking at Supply Chain Managment (Industiral Engineering for biz).
Get A BS in Gluteus Maximus Manipulation...
Undoubtedly an MBA degree, even if it costs a fortune, regardless of your joining the software industry.
get a language qualification, don't bother.
...
I have a Computing MSc., a business degree from a good University, speak Japanese (JLPT2) and German, I'm 33 and still can't afford to buy a house or raise kids.
Then again I live in the UK, where houses are cramped and expensive.
The weather is awful too, but hey musn't grumble
"It's not your information. It's information about you" - John Ford, Vice President, Equifax
I myself have CS and physics bachelors, but my primary aim is at physics. I found the compsci degree helpful when I was doing work in particle physics, as I was writing tons of analytical code. Also, if you planned on doing development for government labs, an ability to create accurate models is a good thing, and physics will help with that.
Management, obviously MBA. I'd also consider a humanities (particularly English) degree; we always complain about the plight of the illiterate programmer/engineer/scientist. Well-spoken and clear-writing employees look good and go a long way. 3-4 years is a major commitment to polish up your writing, though! That having been said, I find I need the humanities to stay sane, so it's probably time well spent...
To follow knowledge like a sinking star, / Beyond the utmost bound of human thought. ("Ulysses", Tennyson)
So you definitely want to avoid a masters.
The best degree would be something related to what your computer science BA program covered. If you did alot of math, get a masters in math. If the program had a good physics or hardware backround, try getting a masters in physics or some field of engineering. What ever field, make sure it is related and that you have the knowledge to successfully complete the degree. A masters is a good idea cause that usually means a bump in pay, and many companies will help to pay for you getting a higher degree.
Live Long and Prosper
In my case, the requirements for the degrees overlapped considerably. I only had to take one extra class to get a double major in Math and CS.
...I'd say a B.S. in Sanitation Engineering or a B.A. in Rapid Cuisine, would be good bets.
I'd say a law degree. But then again, I'm unemployed, but it has been a great 7 years of educational fun!
If you can get into a top ten law school, then you can become a patent lawyer and make a few hundred thousand dollars right out of school. Big firms pay $125K base (not counting bonuses) for patent attorneys from top ten schools--no legal experience (aside from law school) necessary.
A NYC lawyer blogs. http://www.chuangblog.com/
There have been several good suggestions already - MBA, biololgy, an advanced degree so you can do research. It really depends on what your goal is. Getting into bioinformatics is quite different than managing an IT department. If you don't have a goal in mind, I would say either 1) don't go back to school or 2) go back and learn what is interesting to you whether it has anything to do with Comp Sci or not.
Forget about degrees for a minute, what makes you happy? What do you enjoy doing? What do you think you might enjoy doing for a very long period of time?
While the straight answer of "MBA" is an excellent one, I think you'd do better to figure out what industry and within that industry what specific job you think you might want to get. Then your answer might be more obvious.
If you're really just looking for a way to stay in school longer, then it doesn't really matter. Just stick around until they put you on the payroll, then go for tenure.
666-607: 6th floor apartment of the beast
Let me guess, you're the guy who quit his job a few days ago because he didnt want to program in .NET?
Doh!
...but it's often respected. Having a masters in CS has gotten me selected over other candidates with similar experience many times. It has opened doors.
MBA's are good, it will give you knowledge of how to invest your money, and open you to new opportunities you can see around you. Like anything, you can do fine on your own (just look at bill gates or warren buffet), no degree is necessary. If you want to work for a large company, rules (MBA required, etc) come into play. All it shows is you stuck with something for a few years, thats pretty much it.
/dev/null, and if you luck out and have a good year, wait for your bonus.
Personally I would go with marketing. That is one of the few professions where you have the ability to make vast amount of money, without anything to show for it. Might as well just send the marketing budget to
Oh ya, I'm the marketing manager for SCO
Get a BBa (bach. of bus. admin.)
;)
I'm sure you've noticed in your comp. sci. like jobs that most of the business people know absolutely nothing about technology. you spend more money and time teaching them how to use the technology available then how to do their job.
With a BBA you'll be able to bridge that massive gap and definitely have an edge on everybody else applying to any tech. like job from a business perspective.
So now, you can be the guy telling the code monkey his code sucks instead of being the sucky monkey
in the bonds, ppka
I want to further my education, and increase my marketability
Translation:
I'm afraid of having to get a real job and want to hide out for a few more years while getting a second degree that will not help me out in anyway and probably make me less marketable because I'll want more money than i'm worth.
I'd reccommend getting some experience to increase your marketability as opposed to another degree.
I know when I interview possible engineer candidates, I'm looking more for experience than education.
What are you wanting to do? Your write up was very vague.
"You can major in Gameboy if you know how to bullshit."
-Droz, PCU
On the other hand, if there are areas of learning which you really would like to know more about (be it History, Physics, English Lit, etc) then get a degree in that. It will be far more interesting for you and will make you a much more interesting candidate.
But that's just my $.02...
If brevity is the soul of wit, then how does one explain Twitter?
I would go for a BA in English. English degrees tend to get promoted more often and more quickly than others in their chosen field. This is due to the improved communication skills one aquires while studying english.
While I respect you for wanting to further your education, I would argue obtaining another degree is the wrong way to do it. It's been said a million times, but there really is absolutely no substitute for experience, and 3 years of it is worth far more than another piece of paper. Knowing the theory, and being able to put it to use in real life situations are two different things. I suspect you already know this as you obtained your degree two years ago, and hopefully have been employed for at least some of that time.
Unless of course you are looking to learn something totally unrelated to Computer Science in order to provide an additional route for employment. If that's the case, only you can make that choice, and asking people here is silly. If you're not interested in the subject, you're highly unlikey to be motivated enough to do the best you can at it.
Get a business degree in accounting and a CPA. Customers will trust you, the suits inside the company will trust you, and if you want to do consulting or strike out on your own, those letters behind your name will mean more to your clients than any others.
The CPA implies a rational, detail-oriented mind and an implicit understanding of the reasons why the company does what it does. Also, the management of the company and its customers will assume that you can understand what sorts of decisions they make, and what factors affect those decisions.
Decision support and accounting information are two of the top three reasons why companies have internal IT and programming departments.
If you think intellectual property is interesting, by all means get a JD. The demand is skyrocketing.
It would depend on what you want to do, in my case I would go for masters/phd since i want to go into academia and research. if you are interested in bussiness or the corporate I guess an mba would be a good option.
My advice is to find something you like. You're still young. Take your time and look around and find an area you really really want to pursue and go for it. Don't listen to what others say. If you're happy doing your job, you will excel in it, no matter what the nature of the job is. Only then can you make a difference.
Going for an MBA just for the sake of getting a higher salary is plain stupid, IMHO. Unless you really really want to manage, then don't do it. Else, you will be one among thousands in your shoes. You can't stand out of a crowd unless you believe in and enjoy what you do.
Might as well shoot for the top - take a law degree (2.5-3 years depending if you take summer classes) + take the Patent Bar and become a Patent Attorney who drafts applications for software patents.
You will be among the 12,000 or so US Patent Attorneys on the planet and, with only a small amount of luck (and a tough hide to make it through law school) you should go far.
If you are really serious about this business then Franklin Pierce law school (an IP first type of law school) should be your target.
This is not a joke....
...more bachelor degrees means less than nothing.
It means you haven't got the slightest idea what you are doing, unless you happened to earn them simultaneously.
Anything less than a PhD is equally worthless.
If you really must go for another non-Phd degree, the only one the makes any sense is a JD.
Get your piece of the frivlous patent market before it is too late.
We must be alert to the danger that public policy could become captive to a scientific-technological elite. - Eisenhower
- for many CS grads, 'grammar' is an old family member residing in Florida...
- oh, and don't forget to go on a few dates so you know how to act in public...
Not sure if you can get a degree in this as such, but given the current job market, how about something that teaches you to say "Would you like fries with that ?" in a really professional way.
Never, ever lose a file again. Ever.
If you want to spent more time in school, learn
to read and write better.
Personally, if you have unlimited time and funds, I recommend a law degree. Fight the good fight against the SCO. What's more, there will be a deluge of criminal computer cases over the next decade. You would be in a perfect situation to take advantage of this.
Hoist Number One and Number Six.
I'm going to go to law school starting in August. You can work in the field of high-tech law, intellectual property, and patents... I personally am more interested in the software business than I am in writing code, so take that with a grain of salt.
And, you can also diversify into numerous other legal specializations if you get bored or need a change of pace.
The average starting salary varies wildly depending on the type of entity you work for and your geographic location. But, it is my suspicion that you could pretty readily get a decent management job at a software company with 1) technical experience; 2) a BS in CS; and 3) a JD.
There's always the option of going into private practice, or you could work for the FBI/CIA/NSA if you have a penchant for government work (and a clean background).
There's lots more to say on the subject of techno-lawyers, so I'm interested to see what else people have to say Re: law school.
"If you think you have things under control, you're not going fast enough." --Mario Andretti
Regarding running a business a law degree will serve you better.
Now if you're getting a Harvard, Stanford, or Yale MBA, that's a different matter -- because you're buying into the network that rules the world -- both a random college's mba is really not much better than a MCSE.
Electrical Engineering, of course. Pretty brutal way to go through school, though! I'm not sure I know anyone who was able to do it in 4 years.
/ducks
That said, I'm Physics/Math. Compsci is for suckers!
politics.
:)
learn why management make the policy choices they do.
then have committee meetings to drag it out a little longer
actually, i found the double to be quite complimentary. the politics was geared toward policy processes, and while it may be pretty straight forward on the surface, it does change your perception about orders of heirarchies, etc.
I currently am getting a Master's in Statistics (at University of Wisconsin), which is a great degree to complement programming skills. If you can handle the math part of the probability and stats (and it's nowhere near as simple as the undergraduate stuff, so don't kid yourself, if you struggled with calculus, it will take *lots* of work), there are plenty of areas to apply your programming knowledge.
For instance, right now I'm taking a class in decision trees, which has a large overlap with CS ideas. In fact, about half the class aren't stats majors, but CS majors.
If you know stat and CS, there are plenty of new fields you could apply your knowledge, and the two biggest I can think of are biology and finance right now. There are well paid fun positions in both those fields!
In fact, in my inbox right now are open positions for stats people at Intel, Novartus, Pfizer, Merck, to go along with all the other university positions.
So that's my pitch for statistics, check it out, I found my programming background greatly assisted me in almost every class here.
If you're aiming for a management position, an MBA is a good bet, even though there is no evidence that it actually benefits anyone. It looks good, so employers assume it IS good.
Same goes for certifications. A certification is often a process of parroting patterns and educating your guesswork on the multiple choice. In those times I've been involved in the hiring process, I look at how people handle the related but unfamiliar, because that's what they'll face. Nobody, in Real Life(tm), gets a handbook with answers on page 305. Needless to say, nobody has ever asked me to conduct interviews in a long time.
(I also upset a lot of people by asking questions about WHY things were done a certain way. Apparently, the underlying theory is badly neglected in education, because I never did find a person who could answer those questions.)
If you're aiming at the computer consultancy business, an Electrical Engineering degree would be a smart move, because then you could understand both hardware and software sides.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
For you, I'd say this is the way to go. You need to get a handle on those apostrophe's.
IANAL, but if I were going to invest time in graduate school for the purpose of advancing my career, a law degree would be my first choice. With your CS background, you should be able to Ace the logic and reasoning section on the LSAT.
My other sig is extremely clever...
Learn to speak Hindi
Understand their culture and rules
Learn to cook good chicken cury and develop a love for cury to the point that all you will be eating everyday of your life is cury cury cury cury...
If you can get an indian wife is a plus
Or really any degree that shows you can write/communicate well. It might be a good idea to minor in something like that if you can't swing the double major. The biggest fear that most employers have when looking at candidates for positions in IT is ending up with a "Nick Burns - Your Company's Computer Guy" (from Saturday Night Live) sort of character. You can argue as to whether that fear has any basis in fact; but I digress. No one wants to bring someone on staff that makes the workplace more unpleasant for everyone else. Oh, by the way- YOU'RE WELCOME!!!!!!!
With a linguistics background, you will be able to make computers parse and analysis human speech, which will become increasingly important in the future. Think google and search engine capability. This could also lead into AI.
With GIS, you can get a job doing mapping, which is an increasing market for GIS devices, navigations, logistics, and military applications.
Computers are useless. They can only give you answers.
-- Pablo Picasso
...with a Masters degree in IT. It lets you focus on a very specific skill set in the field. This does hurt in a way -- in that it limits what you can later do. It also helps in that you have documented proof that you have advanced skills/knowledge in an area. You can focus on the business side of things (with specific business classes that lead you to CIO type positions -- which the BS in CS and MBA will also do), focus on security putting you ahead of those with just a CISSP, and a lot more areas.
It's not for everyone, but it will certainly distinguish you from those without it -- and noticably those with only certs behind their name.
You have a B.S. C.S. and you can't find a job? I thought that those were golden and you'd easily make money with that. Personally, I have a degree in Computer Engineering and I have wonderful career working for my mom.
Physics (or some sort of electronics)!
Out of life's school of war: What does not destroy me, makes me stronger. Friedrich Nietzsche, The Twilight of the Idols (1899)
This really is the way to go for a few reasons:
1. Both are science degrees, so many science/math electives will overlap.
2. From my experience, a Computer Science + Business makes you instantly marketable. TONS of companies need both skills, so when you put them together, companies see one word...leadership.
3. Getting a business degree is NOT DIFFICULT! Hell, it's ultimately based around the concept of making money by being cheap with everything that doesn't directly impact the bottom line and talking louder than the little guy competitor to attract more customers. Pretty simple, really.
If business just isn't your thing, I'd say that math would also be a good choice. It is something you've already been doing for years, and some of the requirements are VERY similar if not IDENTICAL. Hey, it's just one more thing to add to the resume to help distinguish yourself from the rest of the pack.
further my education, and increase my marketability
There's an oxymoron if I've ever heard one.
What you need now that you have a degree is experience. That will increase you marketability, another degree will simply increase you debt.
Suck it up and ignore whatever they taught you in university about making the big bucks in the real world. Get yourself in the right jobs.
By "right" I don't mean ideal, I mean jobs that will facillitate you getting that "ideal" job.
Some sort of medical related degree. Seriously. Medical doctor, a Pharm.D., some sort of biochemistry, etc. These types are in ridiculously high demand and the people I know who have this magic combination love what they do.
It's getting to the point that little medical research can be done without loads of computing power, and being able to combine these two skillsets is a *BIG* win.
Hell - I'm thinking of going back to school to finish off a biochem degree or just move on to the Pharm.D.
This is your last chance to study something else. Take it.
You have been warned.
You could study the one field most CS/tech people ignore, and don't do well in as a rule. Reading and writing. With heavy emphasis on the writing. Tech skills can become obsolete, but critcal thinking and good writing have a long future.
Anything involving medicine. Medicine needs to be far more data intensive. So much growth must happen here there will be all sorts of opportunities.
Somewhat depends what you plan on doing with your CS degree. A heads down programmer needs a slightly different skill set compared to one with a desire to eventually work your way into management.
For the management positions you might want to considering additional studies in Psychology (industrial or personality) and/or Business Management with a focus on accounting (as already mentioned an MBA is considered valuable). Another alternative, instead of a second degree, is to consider getting a minor designation(s).
That's exactly what I'm doing right now (a master's degree in embedded systems) and I don't regret it. My parents always told me the contrary: learn something useful because later, you'll be unemployed if you don't. The problem is: jobs requirement change every years and you CAN'T predict what will happen in these one or two years.
why? because training your mind in general skills is incredibly valuable. cs/engineering degrees are for technicians. business degrees are for dumb people. liberal arts degrees are for smart people who end up being bosses over the first two categories.
having both a tech degree and a liberal arts degree will put you miles beyond other job applicants, and will be the best-long term career choice. you will make a helluva lot more $, and be more recession/outsourcing proof.
First of all - what type of CS degree - was it math / science or was it more engineering?
Y U
What do you like to do? More importantly, what would you like to do?
Once you answer those questions, find out what degrees / experience people have and look into getting the same.
An MBA is a good fit, as it lets you move into different directions than a CIS degree alone - it can be the stepping stone to consulting , finance, management (although you'll do little CIS work).
If you do get an MBA, go for a good school - there's the top tier:
Harvard
Chicago
Northwestern
Wharton
MIT
N
Columbia
Stanford
a very strong second tier / regional schools (about 25 total),
and then the rest.
Some of the rest are good, other medicore. Look at the employment / salary numbers - some schools have over half their class still unemployed 3 months after graduation.
Businessweek and US News do rankings, as does Ginaicial Times (amongst others). Take them with a grain of salt, but you can see some very definite patterns. While an HBS / Chicago / Northwestern MBA may not be that much better (in pure learning terms) that one from Ohio State or Ga Tech, the 'name' schools will open a lot more doors for you.
I'm a consultant - I convert gibberish into cash-flow.
With almost any profession, writing skills are becoming more and more important. I can't think of an area of CS that written English skills aren't a huge plus for most employers. You've probably seen a million job listings with "Must have good written and verbal communication skills". Many organizations won't hire you or, let you advance far without excellent writing skills.
IMO, the best degree to further yourself would be a BA/BS in English.
There are many Masters programs that would allow you to customize your program to focus on whatever you want. I just feel there is a strong argument to be made for written skills.
You could do some really interesting things with those two things together.
Psychology, law, mechanical engineering, business studies... Something that interests you and preferably with a practical application (I'm guessing there's no subject you adore for its own sake otherwise you'd choose that).
An understanding of any of these areas can be combined with CS somehow. If recent slashdot articles are anything to go by, the legal proffesion is crying out for people with technical knowledge, a business degree will always be helpful and there are many applications for computers in mechanical engineering.
So you can meet all the hot chicks (or chicks for that matter) you missed out on when you did your computer science degree
You are right about a Master's.
:-)
In all my experience I have yet to meet anybody who feels their Master's degrees helped them in their job.
This includes MBAs, which I find quite surprising. But I have never met an MBA who thinks her or his MBA helped them get and do the job. I do know one person who thinks her MBA helped her find a husband
I have a Master's degree myself. I had a blast getting it. I'd do it again. But for job advancement it is worth less than nothing.
Life is like a web application. Sometime you need cookies just to get by.
Go for an MBA if power and money counts. Any other degree will be of purely academic value.
When I graduate from college this Spring (3 months) I will hold a BS in computer science and a BA in philosophy and theology. I will admit that I am a little biased, but in my mind it is an excellence combination. Both of them complement each other very well. Philosophy has trained me to look at problems from the ground up, to be perceptive towards cause and effect, implication, and logical consistancy. Programming has trained me to tackle problems from the top down, through compartmentalization, abstraction, and modeling. Real if you think about it, CS is the science of description. You create interfaces, models, abstraction, and concepts and present them to antoher person as a justified simplification for a higher problem. This is not to far from what philosophy attempts. Plus, philosophy will sharpen your skills as a writer, and that is probably the most important abilty that most programmers lack.
...En að Besta Sem Guð Hefur Skapað Er Nýr Dagur
Maybe another major isn't the answer. I took Math as a second major and it ended up sucking up alot of my free time in college with little benefit in return (in terms of marketability). Now maybe that just means that Math is definitely not a good choice , but I'd say one major is enough. Enjoy your time in college before you have to head out into the real world rather than breaking yourself in a second major. Otherwise, you might just find that you're burnt out on both subjects before you get a chance to apply any of your new found skills in the real world.
If you must take a second major, I'd suggest something to round out a liberal arts education such as History or English. And who knows, the fact that you have a well-rounded education may just give you the edge over others in the job market.
Surely explains her medieval management style.
That looked into what kind of degrees potential technology employers look for. I forget their methodology but it was basically a statistical analysis of the sort "of all the people with a single degree of x who applied for a position equivalent to y, how many got the job?"
In order they were:
1. MBA
2. Psychology
3. Comp Sci
The report author drew an interesting conclusion which I will paraphrase here and probably butcher horribly:
Most people looking for a job in technology know their profession. In addition, most employers (read: HR departments) are horribly unprepared to judge an employee's fitfullness for a technology position. Given that, potential employers tend to believe that a candidate can do what he says he can do, technically.
An MBA shows that the candidate also understands the business needs driving technology decisions. As this is an area where most businesses get burned when hiring technology professionals, it greatly increases your chances of success.
A psychology degree shows that the candidate has a basic knowledge of how to interact with other people. Again this is an area that technologists are stereotyped as being bad at, and is therefore valuable to a potential employer.
I am disrespectful to dirt! Can you see that I am serious?!
I've heard 'accounting', 'business', 'economics'.
I'd say, whatever turns your crank. You've got a piece of paper. Unless you want to teach, getting more paper isn't going to make an appreciable difference. Since you've ruled out an M.S. it sounds like you're not interested in teaching.
So, take things you enjoy, and don't worry about what piece of paper it leads you to. The fact that you're studying something, anything, will have a bigger effect on employers than 'studying XYZ'. If you try to match your studies to the want ads, you'll find that thost want ads could give a shit about courses. They want 2-5 years experience in EXACTLY the area they're employing for.
I have a B.Sc in CSC from '93, and post degree courses in everything from network admin to creative writing. Your local community college is a good place to check out, if you havn't already.
apostrophes is plural, hence is does not contain one.
(I don't normally become a grammer nazi, but if you're going to point it out, you deserve it.)
I would say CCIE for networking, SANS GIAC for security, CISSP for security management.
These are held in the same esteem in the marketplace as graduate degrees or 2nd bachelor's.
Fluency in Hindi? Or Chinese? Seriously, even if you don't go abroad yourself, with fluency in a foreign language you could help to manage the outsourced work...
It really depends on what direction you wish to take your CompSci. Communication (MBA) is great for those areas of technology which are now global forms of mass media and 'social software'. Whereas Economics is awesome for those areas of technology and software development which are deeply entrenched in a businesses.
I would have thought Economics was obvious, though find that Communications has been invaluable.
Learn Kung-Fu. It lets you fight off agent Smith, and you can avenger your master after he is slain by ninjas. Plus, I have yet to see someon who holds a MBA or Math degree with those cool Shaolin dragon and lion brands on their wrists.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
I have a b.s. in computer science and had worked for 5 years programming for various (failed) software outfits. Now I am back in school getting a degree in biostatistics. My decision was based on the observation that working at failed startups was less enjoyable than one might imagine. I think your decision should be based on what types of computing you would like to work on in the future. If you want to do sci-computing then you should definitely pick a rigourous field. I cant speak about the relative merits of getting an MBA, but you should ask yourself if you want to take classes in the chosen area (this is a whole lot more important than you might think) Also, I would say that a couple more years at work might not be a bad choice if it helps you better understand what it is you want to do.
That's what you should get a master's in. At this point in your career, I would offer to you that relevant experience in your field is going to do more to increase your marketability much more than a master's.
"I'd rather be a lightning rod than a seismometer." -Ken Kesey
Linguistics turns out to be hugely useful as a complement to Computer Science. Many of the principles of linguistics bear tremendous relevance in any environment where you will be doing serious software design, rather than mere code-monkey work.
However, that's something best attempted as an undergraduate double-major; you couldn't readily get into a good graduate linguistics program with just a BSCS.
Mathematics is a similarly useful undergraduate double-major to accompany CS. Oddly, English or History can be good candidates for a double-major, as these will help your communication skills in a way that will set you apart from most CS grads.
For an advanced degree after a BSCS, however, your options are more limited. If you want to go into management, a JD (law degree) may actually be more useful than an MBA, as it will expose you to a skill-set not possessed by the average PHB with an MBA.
I've actually stopped looking at CS degrees for hiring people. I don't mean I wouldn't hire some one with a CS degree, but I won't require it. People are born with it or not - the ability to learn and write good code. Four years of school won't change that. It'll just make you more familiar with languages.
That said, the best degree to have is one in business or economics. CS people know how to make software, business people who can program know how to make money doing it.
I really think that has to do with why there's so much push in the open source world. A lot of people just don't know how to make money writing software.
Anything in humanities to prove your writing abilities
Econ, which opens up a lot of jobs in the financial side of businesses(and analyzing the data goes well with computer skills)
Math if you really want to get in-depth with algorithms, optimization, and other theoretical things(this basically REQUIRES a certain mindset to do though)
Science/engineering if you want to apply programming skills to a specific field
Mechanical engineering with a specialisation in impact and explosion engineering. As the euro software patent debacle shows, we're going to have to have a revolution fairly soon to preserve our computing freedom, so good weaponry-making skills are a must.
I would say the biggest caveat is that economics programs really depend on the professors. Spending 1 or 2 years in an econ program with cruddy profs will be rather painful.
The biggest gain with an econ background (or even MBA or the other general business degress people are throwing around here) is that you can make decisions in your programmer box that will positively affect the business as a whole. Too many programmers are idealogues with no sense of why implementing feature X is a bad idea when it will cost Y but only increase sales by Y - $20,000. The ability to make suggestions about how development can better help the business as a whole will make you more valuable, and probably make for a better working environment.
1. Get an EE--then you'll know how all this stuff actually works 2. Get a law degree and be a patent lawyer. Good patent lawyers make pretty big $$$.
The jobs you're looking at may not REQUIRE a masters, but if you have to compete for a job against someone who has one you're going to lose out.
Of course, this is assuming you took computer science because you like to program. If you like programming, and want to work as a programmer then I would suggest a Masters, and then experience. You can't lose out with that combination. If later in life you find yourself moving closer to a managerial position then get an MBA (many programs require 3+ years work experience to get in anyway).
I'll just say that I applied to many of the "big" companies (Hewlett-Packard, Microsoft, SAIC, Qualcomm, etc...) both after I got my BS and after I got my MS and none of them called me back after my BS and ALL of them called me back after my MS.
Once again, if you want to do something other than just program (developing ICs, bioengineering, etc) then you might be better off going a different route. But if you do that I recommend getting a Masters in something... do not get another Bachelors, it won't help (unless you double major).
Business Management. Hands Down. Thats what I have and it is hands down the best partner in sheepskin.
I would suggest a master's in some discipline of biology. Bioinformatics is the new buzzword among biology departments. Basically, if you can assist a department's researchers with datamining or creating the archtiecture to handle insane amounts of genome data, then you are set. The one caveat about getting into bioinformatics is to make sure that you actually understand the biological patterns you are dealing with on the computer side of things. Many, many bioinformatics meta-analyses yield results that have been known for many years but are new to the comp sci. crossover people. Also, try to focus your work on a sub-discipline of bioloy. For example, phylogentic theory and evolutionary data analyses have very different assumptions and demands than someone working on modeling neural pathways or signalling cascades. Become proficient in one biological domain to learn the big questions and departments would be willing to give you a look over others with less knowledge (we just went through this last spring with a job search, and I must stress that you need to know the biology!)
Of course, you can also go for a degree proper. I did it (BSc CS, MSc SWE). Just don't expect it will automatically bring with it a bigger paycheck(*). If however you want to try something different and have something to moderate and really make the most out of your "hard" technical skills, while still remaining firmly on technical ground, I can't think of anything better.
(*) In fact don't expect this even if you go the MBA route many have suggested here. Degrees are not magic.
The revolution will not be televised.
IMO, look at your target market. If you're in New York or London, there's a lot of financial software done there, so chances are a finance background would help if you're interested in that. If the area you want to work in is heavily research oriented, then perhaps as other posters suggested, biochem or some other science. Consider selecting something you are truly interested in or care about. A piece of paper may convince paper shufflers, but other people on the ground with you will notice the difference in performance. It's hard to fake enthusiasm, and real enthusiasm is key in getting better than the minimum bar that the piece of paper represents (and thus, better than everyone else).
I don't have a BS in CS, but I do have a BS in Civil Engineering, along with a minor in CS. To me, it has hilighted the multitude of opportunities to streamline processes in the workplace when you have a knowledge of two fields. I could go on for quite a while about all the ways I have been able to make things more efficient in the workplace simply because of a little programming.
Knowing two different fields allows you to easily identify places where knowledge from both fields can help each other.
"The majority is always wrong; the minority is rarely right." - Henrik Ibsen
Information Science and Technology. Its basically business meets technology. You will learn project management techniques, report writing, ROI, cost management, stuff that it takes to be the boss of a CS major.
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Image the possibilities that opens up for "computer support" jobs: "Your PC won't boot? How does that make you feel?"
If you are looking for something to get you a job, you probably have all you need already. In all the resumes I read for the purposes of hiring, the degree is just a qualifier. That it is Comp Sci is a plus but no additional program will improve things much further.
If you are keen on doing education for the sake of education then pick a program that _you_ will enjoy. Once you have jumped the hurdle, motivation is the hardest commodity to find and three years for a degree program (well probably two given one degree already) is a long time to be doing something for which you have little motivation.
"The first thing to do when you find yourself in a hole is stop digging."
If you are BOFH, then take a break. If not, take an MBA.
MÃs loco que muchos
Software Engineering...
;-)
You learned how to code, now learn how to actually write a piece of software.
http://mse.cs.cmu.edu/ -- Might as well aim high
McDonald's Crew Training Certificate?
judging by recent events... you'll be wanting to get a head start into the patent suit free for all that's about to kick off...
Donald 'Duck' Dunn: We had a band powerful enough to turn goat piss into gasoline.
I work in the defense industry. It has the rare combination of open positions and job security.
Various defense contractors have a big need for people who are good programmers and can understand the math and physics behind complex systems like radar and missile guidance. A master's degree in applied math, electrical engineering, or physics should do the trick.
If you don't mind working for Uncle Sam, are a U.S. citizen, and can get a security clearance (no criminal record, can pass a drug test, decent credit rating), then you too can get a good starting salary, job security, and a chance to work in a room with no windows outside Washington, DC.
[Sir Garlon] is the marvellest knight that is now living, for he destroyeth many good knights, for he goeth invisible.
This is only valid if you share a concern for the environment. I am studying a BSc. in Geography and Environmental Modelling at the Australian National University. I have worked as a programmer for 6 years and as a liberal-tree-hugging-hippy type decided it was time to apply my skills for good. My degree covers environment/society, resource management, geography, mathematics, statistics, computer science and high performance computing. The application is research modelling environmental scenarios in software, such as watersheds, agricultural systems, or the entire globe. Environmental services, management and research is one of the highest growth sectors on earth. Plus, environmental science is absolutely crawling with hot chicks, which I can't say is the case in comp sci!
Based on the usual sort of writing I see in /. comments, I'd suggest an English degree.
When I read this question my first response was the same, MBA. However, I assumed the slashdot crowd would be it's usual, tech-obsessed, bunch-of-teenage, know-it-alls, you-don't-need-a-degree-just-linux-experience. I'm glad to see so many agree with the wisdown of this comment. An MBA paired with a technical degree is a great choice. Hopefully this is a sign slashdot is growing up and leaving goatse, natalie portman, and grits behind.
With Sarbanes-Oxley there is a huge demand for CPAs, and a big part of meeting this compliancy will involve updating accounting software. Your CS/CPA combo will give you a big leg up on the competition and will guarantee lucrative employment at consulting firms and the big 3 accounting firms.
Having completed a Bachelors in IT and 3 years experience, I felt it was the perfect time to go back and do an MSc in IT part time. I didn't do it for any financial reward, in fact has it already cost more than I will probably earn from it. The reason I went back was the same as the reason I went into IT in the first place...I like computers :-) After a couple of years, it is the perfect way to update your knowledge of new research topics that are developing as well as satisfaction in completing your education (PHd's are probably a step too far though).
Donno if it will help but I did a degree in Computer Science and Software development, followed it up with 2 years of development experience and I'm in the middle of a Masters in Management Science (technical - think Operations Research). Getting some interest job wise (mostly technical consultancy), but nothing definite and I've missed most of the Milkround (graduate stream) jobs at this stage.
There's no way somebdoy who has a BSCS and two years of work experience is anywhere near needing to think about an MBA, unless he's figured out he doesn't want to be a computer professional.
Ten years later, that's a different story. At that point you've mastered the technical stuff, and are probably getting into making business decisions.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Get a degree in Bioinformatics.
-Dickens
The MBA is best had after a few years of working experience. Finding work as a fresh out-of-college BCS is hard enough, one thats overqualified and underexperienced, leading a bunch of technically experienced IT guys will be a hard sell. Work a few years, while working on your certficates.
That said, aiming for niche markets is a good idea, like manufacturing, scientific, accounting, engineering, chemistry even. Dont do political science, history etc, where using both degrees for one job will be difficult.
"Give orange me give eat orange me eat orange give me eat orange give me you." -Nim Chimpsky
Seriously, you are obviously going to receive the same answer from everybody: MBA. The only other response may be if you specify some special interest in some other area (ex security: PhD math), which you didn't. Quite possibly the dumbest question yet to make Ask Slashdot.
"Here Lies Philip J. Fry, named for his uncle, to carry on his spirit"
Because really, programmers are glorified technicians these days. Sure you enjoy building stuff, but you hate the politics and pressure. So get your degree in economics or do your mba. T
Then you can be making twice as much as you did before and dip back into the technical work when you want to. If you're smart you can view business as just another system to be tinkered with, much like cs. In fact, economics is a lot like raw computer science. An mba obviously isn't.
You're a nerd, you have the papers to prove it, the empty sex-life to prove it, but you want another degree.
What should it be?
Hmmmm.
Women's Studies.
Learn to succeed where many a nerd before you has failed.
I dub thee... Sir Phobos, Knight of Mars, Beater of Ass.
I graduated with a BS in CS, worked for two years and decided I didn't want to code for a living. Went back for an MBA. Played that game for a while and decided I wanted to research and teach - now I'm working on a PhD.
Graduate education is not like undergrad where you're getting a baseline set of skills to be molded by your experience. It is much more targeted and refined to the skills you need for the profession or dicipline you choose - hence the term "master's degree."
Remember, MBA stands for "Master of Business Administration." Think about it...
- Carpe diem, quam minimum credula postero.
HCI is a very fast growing field. If you are interested in the more human side of computing, love UI development, and your future career goals are to remain technical, it is definitely something I would look into. You will be surprised how many "MS level" jobs you find once you have your degree. :) Even if a job doesn't require it, it can definitely help if the MS is related to the job.
Once you have one degree, more won't make a huge difference, if any. Experience is what counts most, after the first BA or BS. If you still want to pursue this, do it on your company's dime. A lot of corporations will pay for this kind of thing if it's related to your job.
Which degree(s) do YOU think will go well with a Computer Science Bachelors?
./? We don't know who you are, your personality, or what you really want to do with your life five years down the road. Sure, you ask what would be helpful to increase your marketability, but marketability in what? My field is education, and I double majored in CS and Math Ed. An Ed degree would be great for any company looking for communication and management skills, but it won't get you very far if you're looking for marketability for anything to do with, say, software engineering.
./ will be able to help you with this type of personal decision. I've already seen a few friends drop out of college at some point because the only advice they followed was everybody elses, never their own.
When I read this, my first response would be to pit the question on the submitter. Why ask
I don't know if
Sure, you can get as much advice as you can take on what might "look good" on a resume, but I also knew a few classmates who tried for a minor that they thought would give them a one-up. In the end, they didn't like what they were studying, were too mentally exhausted to try harder, and just detested the class material so much that they then detested the work that came with it. And no employer's going to want to hire someone who isn't motivated to do their job, that's for sure.
Figure out what you would really like to do first. If you don't know, try out market yourself with what you have. If you then find something that you'd really like to go for but don't have what the education / experience, THEN you'll find the motivation to take more classes, and you'll know what you need to take.
Get a Masters of Library and Information Sciences... you actually have to have a Masters to be a Librarian.
Yes, studying ducks -- biology -- is a very good field for an M.A., especially when you consider the tremendous computing needs of the emerging biotechnology sector.
However, you are also correct that more and more Indians are studying in this field, so it too may become a prime candidate for offshoring.
In any case, I applaud your concise-yet-brilliant analysis. Well done!
No matter what field you enter, the ability to communicate well with others is essential. For this reason, a degree in English would help you a lot. Studying English requires, at a minimum, the ability to write well and to understand what others have written. You learn how to communicate. Granted, you can't get a job on this alone, but if you add it to a skilled profession, it can really come in handy.
Oh, and it's also a good starting point for striking out on your own as an innovator.
Get high-end certifications:
CISSP (Pretty easy)
RHCE (Moderately difficult)
CCIE (Pretty difficult)
Don't waste your time with MCSE or other entry level certs. They won't help.
Average salary for a CCIE has hovered around $100k/year for the past several years even during the big bust years of 2001-2003.
I guess I'm assuming an IT infrastructure career track like myself. If you are more geared towards development, this may or may not be the best advice.
Good luck.
As an art major/ software developer, I would suggest Fine Art or at least a Graphic Design major. I've found that it helps in obvious ways like UI design, but also helps in other aspects of development. From a marketing standpoint, your resume shows you have both technical skills and creative abilities.
I find myself in an eerily similar situation. I'm just about finished (give me 5 months) with a double major in chem/CS, and I have little idea of where to go from here. I've garnered a decent amount of co-op experience, and I'll be taking a few of the MCSD exams soon (thanks to my employer), but after that...?
I'd been told that there were three options:
a.) Get a job and just go with it - the problem with this one is I don't want to be stick as a code monkey forever. I like to write code and all...but it gets old after awhile, ya know? I want to get experience out there as well, but at the same time, I'd like to be a little more qualified (and thus a little more well-paid) than a simple BS will allow. This option seems the least viable.
b.) Get a master's - this option sounds somewhat appealing, but it still seems like it'd lead down a career path that ends in the corporate world with someone breathing down your neck about deadlines (and then you can turn around and pass the buck to someone else). TPS Reports = the suck. I really don't like the idea of ending up as a Bill Lumbergh, so the master's and/or MBA seems kinda stinky, too.
c.) Get a PhD - this option sounds pretty good, but I'm not sure what's out there once you've gotten it. Chicks dig the title and all that, but do companies dish out the cash for them? Is there anything else out there besides teaching and research? I mean, I like the idea of theoretical research, and I really like the possibility of not having someone all over me about getting this or that finished by Deadline X. I don't mind the possibility of having to teach; I served for two years as a TA in organic chemistry. I liked it a lot...I just don't know how well it pays. I don't want to say I'm just in it for the money, but a guy's gotta live comfortably and (at least marginally) provide for his family...
So, in short...just like the guy that came up with this post...where do I go?? BS, MS/MBA, PhD?
I'm looking at complimenting my BS in CSc with a BA (or MFA, if I have to) in Graphic Design, but that's just me and what I love to do (web development, with a passion for CSS-design). I wouldn't think a degree in Graphic Design is any kind of income enhancing achievement.
That's always in demand... build a better bomb
Get either an MCP, Sun Java certification, or perhaps IBM's linux certification. Proof that you know what you're doing, and lots of jobs ask for them.
Be Einstein!
I think you need to decide what you want to do (or what field you want to work in) and narrow your focus.
For instance, if you would like to work with websites (website management or SEO), getting a degree in marketing or communications would be an excellent option. Or on the other side, if you want to focus on web design possibly go for a fine art degree. If you want to do serious programming work, maybe look into a degree in mathematics.
All in all, I would say you are better off going for a master's degree in whatever area that you wish to focus on rather than getting a second bachelor's.
If you ever want to get that Dream job with Google, you'd better be pretty sharp on your Math skills.
Game Programming? You guessed it. Some of the most interesting programming jobs require a good deal of Math knowledge. MBAs make corporate executroids happy, but do you want to push paper, or create something?
Get your A+
What do you want to do? I think answering that question would make this question kind of moot. At the very least, it would prevent you from wasting a lot of time and money getting a degree that puts you no closer to your goals than you were before.
You will start off as an officer. Live on base and save all the money you can. Take free classes and score your Masters + you increase your salary. Then you retire with full benefits in only 20 years and the money you saved will buy you a ranch for cash. You get your retirement monies and benefits 'till the day you die. You can drop out of being a robot whore faster than any other method!
I actually met somebody who did this and I (kind of) envy them. They got married after they retired. All they do is play on their ranch.
"Only in their dreams can men truly be free 'twas always thus, and always thus will be."
--Tom Schulman
Brew Master as in "Free Beer". With the increasing numbers micro brew pubs, a good second job is always smart. Plus your home brew will not taste like sheep dip.
It depends alot on what you are interested in.
Where do you see a need? What itches you enough to motivate you? Finance? Statistics? Games? Encryption? CPU design?
How about genetics or nano technology? Maybe its
user interface...whatever floats your boat so to speak.
My personal choice would be either electrical engineering or some sort of physics. After that, I would place finance or statistics.
I'm an EE, and I took some time off to study Mandarin Chinese in Beijing.. If you have interest in living in china/taiwan, there are opportunities out the yin yang with the exploding economy in China.
Mandarin is probably the best thing to learn, though Cantonese is more prevalent in southern china. Not to mention english literacy is fairly high among educated chinese.
A witty saying proves you are wittier than the next guy.
Clearly, the best solution for most technical people, the kind of geeks who are most at home here on /. would be the rare [but incredibly useful]:
M.N.P. [Master's in Natalie Portman].
Yum.
Get a B.S. in say Mechanical Engineering and then a Masters in Computer Science. Being able to apply computer science to a specific field is far better than just being able to program.
Ive been considering persuing a law degree after I finish CS for some time now. I'll probably choose to work assuming I'm able to find a job but I was wondering how other people with CS degrees enjoyed law school and what opportunities it has opened up.
bit trollent
MBA is a good option if you want to go into industry, get some technical experience but then getting involved in management. After you start down that path you won't see much programming, it will be mainly administrative stuff. On the other hand, a Master on CS or a similar discipline DOES increase your marketability despite what other people have posted. You application will have more weight that those without a MS. And regarding PhDs, the market is not more limited (over-qualification is a myth), and all the very good paying jobs will definetely give priority to a PhD over anybody else. You first need to know what it is that you wanna do. If you like programming a lot, go for the MS, an MBA might increase your pay but it will drive you away from programming. If you like the idea of managing, then the MBA is a better option. But make sure you choose what you want because ending up doing something you hate can be depresing. And last, do NOT, NO, NEVER choose where you wanna go before knowing what it is that you want to do, unless you want to end up doing something you don't like. Really, and MBA in Harvard might get you a lot of money but if you like programing better than managing you'll hate your life.
The OP implies that there's some degree that's better than interesting and relevant job experience. I've hired people. Do you know how much attention we pay to what degrees they have?
...think about a business degree, but make sure you actually LIKE business and not just the idea of earning more (talk to friends that work in investment banks and the like).
If you haven't had any experience in business you may find that the people who gravitate towards "big business" are *not* like your engineering school buddies, usually. Often people in business have very different outlooks on the world and work than engineers.
First of all, take something you like. You can do anything with computers really. Find something else you enjoy and study that, and then find a way to tie that into what you want to do with computers, there's got to be a way.
Failing that, take design. Go into graphic design or (better still) industrial design. There's so much crap in the computer industry that could be improved if only a designer had some input. And well-designed products (which is not something CS education prepares you to make) do make an impact on the market (the iPod being the most obvious example).
I got so tired of fighting against the computer industry and it's arrogant attitude toward designers that I quit, and am now going back to school to get a degree in industrial design. I really don't intend to go back to the computer industry, but I think if I had pursued design in the first place, I would've been better prepared for what I encountered there.
Most people don't realize that good design is a serious discipline and not just the result of taking a lot of art classes. I really would like to see more people take industrial design seriously in the computer industry, I think current attitudes have really held the whole industry back for years and I wouldn't mind if the newer CS grads started preparing to change all that.
And don't fall prey to the talent myth/trap (replacing religious determinism with scientific/genetic determinism -- how progressive). You don't have to be good at art or whatever other crap someone has fed you to be good in design. It's a discipline like any other and skills can be developed with time and effort.
The degree doesn't really matter. Its what you want to do. If there is something you really want to do, you can do it. Seriously, if there is this DREAM JOB you want, and you can write a description for it, then I bet you can find some one (or company) who would pay you to do it. The key is a) you have to know what it is, and b) market yourself correctly. So first decide what you want to do, then figure out what degree you need (or don't).
Of course I have a MBA. The reason I have a MBA is because my dream job is international consulting. Essentially I want to get paid to travel the world and tell people what a horrible job they are doing.
In the UK you want to go for INSEAD, LBS or IMD.
Hindi is not the principle language of Karnakata, the state where Bangalore is located; Kannada is its official and largest language. Of course, in practice, tech workers in Bangalore come from different regions of India--or indeed, the world--so probably English is even more common in technical workplaces.
Buy Text Processing in Python
electrical or computer engineering. you know software, now learn hardware. it'll vastly increase the number of jobs you can apply for. plus, you wont be stuck in a cubicle for 45 hours a week pounding out line after line of code (can you tell i hate programming?). you'll be able to go down to the lab and get a hands-on experience.
3 more months and then i graduate with a bachelors in computer/electrical enginering (math minor as well). basically ive taken a bunch of circuit analysis, digital logic design, microcontroller design, modern processor design, plus ive had my fair share of programming.
basically what im trying to say is that learning the hardware aspect of computers will open up many more doors as far as your career is concerned. once you know hardware AND software, there will be basically nothing you can't do.
Bioinformatics or Systems Biology. You can go a long way in multiple industries with this training. Comprehensive in engineering, biology, mathematical modeling of dynamics systems, information theory... woot!
The money could be in the account, or it could not be in the account. You can only know how much money or which account the money is in, not both!
Attention Masses:
The word you're looking for is "complement," not "compliment."
Thank you.
It depends on what your goals are and how these professional goals intersect with life goals. You clearly indicated "marketability". So you want to peddle yourself and make money. Then get an MBA, and you'll have more options. If you had any integrity or real intelligence, you'd already have studied enough mathematics for research endeavors, or you'd be curious to combine CS with an intellectually exciting field like Biology. So get that MBA and become a cog in the corporate wheel -- poor pathetic cog.
Xray Crystallography is the science of studying crystals using xrays. .... just not nice )
Its is computationaly dependent, much math, physics and chemistry is required. Most number of Noble Prizes in physics have resulted from research on xray cryatallography.
It is worth learning a certain specific science that will tie your scientific areas together. So you can apply all that you have learned in the world towards solving problems using many different methods.
Another interesting set of classes you many want to take is in visual arts so you broaden your horizons. Any idiot can read a book and learn something; to get vision to see beyond the world's boundaries one needs to excercise the other side of the brain even if you hate it. Long story cut short focus on your strengths, and learn you weakness. Here you learn how to percieve your world and how you can learn from their to solve problems. Long story cut short create the world that you want to live in.
Good luck in the big bad world ( which really isn't that bad
Get your degree for teaching high school.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Degrees don't mean jack. Take it from me. I have had a B.S. for over 7 years and have yet to land a position that requires a degree. If there is anything I have learned from outplacement companies after being laid off, outsourced, and everything else, it's all about networking. You simply cannot land a decent job without connections no matter how smart you are. Get connected as early as possible.
I always get strange looks from people when I tell them that I have a Bachelor's Degree in Information Technology, as well as Bachelors degree in Arts (majoring in History). Combining the future with the past, I say!
A science degree with a business degree will be good for management growth while still staying technical.
What makes you marketable is experience. Find a good company that will give you room to grow into your own self selected specialty. The bet IT professionals are "naturals". They know how to problem solve absolutely anything. An MBA is worthless in my opinion. Find the right fit in the real world and there are many opportunites out there that don't require another degree.
you must be a business type. go that way. please.
...or maybe not.
If your goal is CEO/CFO/Preident type role, then an MBA might be a good choice, however I feel you would get more value from a Masters in Software Engineering. Depending on the school, but some provide an excellent balance of how to do it (from a business perspective) as well as the whole issue of how to do it better (using better engineering pricipals in the development process). Carnie Melon has a great program, if you are rich. There are many other valuable MS SE programs out there. I encourage you to take a look.
There is no magic degree bullet. I went to school with a lot of pre-meds (my undergrad degree is in biology). A number of the premeds wanted to go into medicine because they thought that the degree would be the magic carpet to a high income and job security.
As it turned out, things were not so simple. HMOs put pressure on doctor's fees and medicine is a field where there is more burnout than people want to admit. For people who are not good at relationships with other people (most of the premeds I knew) seeing people for the same kind of thing year after year becomes a huge bore. By the time they hit their forties some doctors would like to do something else, but it is too late to easily change professions and they are used to making a lot of money.
Since there is no degree that I know of that will guarantee a good income, job security AND interesting work, you might was well go for a degree in something that interests you and might improve your job prospects.
If I were to get another degree I'd get a degree in quantitative finance. That is, the application of mathematical techniques to financial modeling and trading of stocks, bonds, foreign exchange and so on. Having a solid software background and the ability to handle the math is a big asset. Of course for some of us the downside is that you may have to live in or around New York city (but this is a feature for other people).
While not directly saying it, what most employers appreciate is the ability to deliver. Best way to achieve this in college? An opensource project.
The Raven
Excellent program offerd by the Univ. of Texas.
http://msstc.ic2.org/index.php
The ability to commercialize new technology rapidly is essential for competitive advantage in dynamically changing private and public sector environments. Science and technology commercialization is key to the reinvention of organizations and the basis for the creation of new customer oriented technology-based enterprises.
Through the MSSTC program you will gain the knowledge and skills to cope with the formidable economic, social, financial, and political changes associated with creating economic value from knowledge. The focus is on the rapid transfer of research, knowledge, and technology from ideas to the marketplace - the entrepreneurial wealth creation process.
From Devry Institute of Technology. You can specialize in:
Medical CLaims Processing
Paralegal
Medical Transcription
Refridgerator Repair
Bookkeeping
Or get your high school diploma!!!
Do you want to write code? Do you want to manage others? Do you want to be a soul sucking salesman?
By all means get an MBA and look for the highest paying job you can find, if what you want is a nice car. If the work itself is important to you, then you are going to have to answer this question by yourself.
The people I envy most accidently find out they can make money while they are busy doing something they would do anyway.
A degree in restaraunt management so you won't have to learn to say "Do you want fries with that?"
Steve's Computer Service, Hobbs, NM
Masters in Computer Engineering (or EE if your school doesn't have CE). CS students usually don't know hardware very well. The most effective computer people (regardless of hardware or software) have a solid background in software programming and how that program becomes machine code and is executed in a computer. Very few CS classes teach you this in detail.
While doing the masters, take some applied math classes so you understand how to create algorithms better. I have found an education that is 50% software, 30% hardware, and 20% math will make you a powerful programmer.
And don't think that a Masters is useless - it can take as little as 1-2 years and can be as valuable as a few years job experience. It can also get you more money or make it easier to get a job. After all - who would you hire: a person with 4 years of education in CS, or a person with 6 years of education in CS and EE? I would guess the better rounded, more educated person.
If English doesn't appeal to you, any degree in the humanities will look great, since most require language and research skills, and present you as a well-rounded renaissance person, not a single-minded code zombie. (Read: as someone who makes decisions, not as someone who is subject to them.) History is also particularly good.
Remember: CS majors stereotypically are introverted nerds who can't communicate with anyone who doesn't speak LISP. CS majors with MBAs are stereotypically suit-wearing nerd-wannabes who can't communicate with anyone who doesn't speak Marketroid. Anything you can do to prove that you're not either of those will help a lot.
Another one bites the dust
an MS in Burgerology or an AS in Pizzaic studies
Snowden and Manning are heroes.
If the MBA interests you, then I would say, "Go for it!" However, note the number of people who are either getting or considering the pursuit of an MBA. There may be a large number of people with similar qualifications (and possibly more experience) out there competing for the same job.
My suggestion is to find an interesting, if not unusual, graduate program. Particularly in liberal arts, you will bring something interesting to the program/discipline (you will have an edge) + when you go searching for that job, your background will stick out. The person reading the resumes won't recall all of the CS/MBAs, but the CS B.S with an M.A. in Linguistics or History will likely stand out (besides, there ARE interesting intersections in many of these fields). Moreover, the most important fact is that you are capable of obtaining an advanced degree - you can focus, do independent research, etc.
Can you give 'expert' evidence on IP rights? If you can, thats the big growth area.
Patent lawyers, patent rights, IP expert testimony, and so on.
I should give you the caveat that the only degree I have is a B.A. in languages granted over 20 years ago. I seem to be no more nor less employable than people my age with comp sci degrees. At a certain point, a job is a job, and what really matters is paying the mortgage and making it to the kid's class play.
"Who controls the past controls the future. Who controls the present controls the past." -- George Orwell
Only do a postgraduate degree if you have a passion for the subject matter. If you do have that passion, you'll have a great time, a really interesting life and meet lots of clever, deranged and interesting people.
You will also never be rich -- unless you are extremely lucky.
But that is a judgement call on your part. It is, however, worth remembering that "quality of life" and "standard of living" are not equivalent.
Several PacRim Languages should ensure that you can move around the low ladder nations and actually find work.
I'd make your mind up on one and concentrate on that. If you think they're the same thing, chat to some potential employers.
Try majoring in art. This opens the way for computer animation and the motherload: Pixar.
If you like the frontiers of biology, consider becoming a gene hacker... Cutting edge stuff, very exciting if you're into it.
You are in computer science. You should get used to the idea that you are a bachelor and forget about any possibility of a pairing.
No one's asked the obvious question here: *WHY* do you want to go back to school, and *WHAT* do you want to do with your education?
If all you want to do is further your education for its own personal sake, then take something like history, or philosophy, or something that interests you personally. If nothing else, you'll gain a certain balance that most tech-degrees utterly lack.
If you want to move up in the business world - say, into management or even starting your own company - then an MBA is an obvious choice.
That said, you cannot ever go wrong studying a 2nd language. You don't need to get a degree in it (though, I did) but demonstratable proficency in another language will immediatly put you in a different category than "just another BS-CS coder..."
EEWW! EEWW! EEWW!!
Why are you taking comp sci? you like computers? Programming? Working long hours in small cubicles for good pay?
For undergrad, focus on breadth, not depth. Find some other field you like and take courses. Try and get away from the sciences for a bit; learn how to put a well-written paper together (helps a LOT later on), learn a foreign language (German or Japanese or Hindi for complimentary usage, Spanish or French for development work and interesting travel options)
Take some philosophy courses, learn how to argue, how to pick apart an argument, and heck, maybe even some ethics and existential crises to boot!
Shop around. Heck, don't even get a second major, just take lots and lots of courses around the university. Get an education, and you'll find a career. If you spend all your time getting a career, you're more vulnerable to changes in what the workforce needs (i.e., you are more likely to get your job outsourced and have no other skills).
Think about it. What makes you happy? Your undergrad is the best opportunity you'll ever have to get educated on things that aren't directly in your line of work, but nonetheless could make you a better, more rounded person.
Back to being boring, if you want things that dovetail with programming, foreign languages, math, biology (bio-informatics), music...
Returned Peace Corps IT Volunteer
The obvious ones come to mind, "invisibility", "telekenisis" and "flight". While "superhuman strength" might have some use, it will likely be less so in the future as computers get smaller and lighter. You might also look into "shape shifting" and "teleportation", the latter being helpful if your employment requires long commutes.
I'm Rick James with mod points biatch!
An MBA is a BS in B.S. Take this if you despise programming and do not want to actually code for a living. And as many times as you will see this, language is the minor of choice as all the work is now done overseas.
Do you EVER want to actually program? If so, get certs, real world experience, or maybe a BS CPE (Computer Engineering). At NCSU CPE fell under the EE dept, but many uni's have a distinct CPE dept. I had a friend who was talking about a doing a combined Major/Minor program, but it was Major CPE Minor CS. EE's use CS all the time, even if it is mostly just flowcharting or logic.
So you can cover your patent butt!
You hit it on the head: it says that he, like 99% of all other employers, have neither have the faintest idea as to what makes a good candidate, nor how to interview her to discover this information.
Instead they rely on mostly-useless resumes and/or pull something from the "Big Book of Interview Questions":
Yeah, right.
It depends what you want to do:
Manage? An MBA as already posted here.
Research? What about math?
Embedded? Electronics.
Scientia est Potentia
I'd say that your second degree should really reflect your interests. If you're looking to do something that you have a passion for, and you don't care about the marketability, just study something that you love. If you're looking for marketability alone, get a business degree. If you're trying to break into a certain field, study the area most closely related to it.
I'm studying for a dual bachelor's in MechE / CS at RPI. Combining these majors was one of the best things I did at RPI. I love working with computers and I love learning about the mechanical world; I didn't choose my majors solely because that's what I wanted to do for a job.
I didn't think a dual degree would be very marketable, but now that I'm looking for a job, I'm finding that not only are the employers from both fields contacting me, but when I talk to them, they love the fact that I'm able to talk as comfortably about program stacks as grar trains.
Just one poor student's opinion.
- "Nobody came out that night, not one was ever seen. But Old Man Stauf is waiting there, crazy sick and mean!"
1) Get a degree in a field that interests you.
2) Don't Get a degree to increase your "marketability", unless it increases your "marketability" in a field that you would want a job in. In which case, see (1).
I mostly agree. I'm a junior at the University of Michigan. I started with pure physics, then added CS because I've always liked programming. Since then, my interest in physics has waned -- I've considered dropping my major several times -- but professors have encouraged me to stick with it, so I have. I've found physics to be more difficult intellectually than CS.
Physics and CS go well together. You can't really be a physicist anymore without having some programming skills. And if you want to do any kind of physical simulation, whether with fluids or rigid bodies or traffic or galaxies, then you'll need expertise in both areas.
About half those with a BS in physics go into industry (as opposed to continuing their education), many to jobs unrelated to physics. If you have a degree in physics, employers see that you know how to solve problems well.
It's paying off for me, as I currently have one internship offer and am following two more tracks for other internships. They're at good companies (though at least one has been called evil here). Everyone I talked to at the career fair a while back remarked about my physics major.
If you can't find another major you like, then just dig in and kick butt with CS. Take a course on object-oriented programming that covers design patterns, and do lots of work on cool projects in your free time.
You have at least something of a career path framed in your mind, and experince (I presume) with the CS degree. What do you want to do, though, now that you have all that theoretical knowledge? You probably aren't lookign to be a code monkey somewhere, imlpementing what other CS majors have designed, complaining that they never took any of your advice, or even ask for input from you.
I'm mroe of the IT end of things, working on finishing up my bachelor's degree in CIS. However, I started my 'career' in programming working with a friend on fluid-flow analysis using finite element analysis software that we wrote from scratch. I didn't understand most of the math (I was only in 9th grade when we started), but I did learn a lot through that experience. I learned that I didn't want to just be a programmer. I wanted to be doing work at the systems analysis and design level, system/network administration. Both are high-level, complex job functions where your employer expects you to work at the macro level, but be able to jump down to the micro layers when needed.
If you liked all the math you did for your CS degree, I would reccommend going back for some form of engineering (I would personally choose mechanical, civil, or aerospace engineering). A few other posters suggested getting and MBA. They're great if you want to get into the business side of things. If you want to work for some place like AutoCAD, though, I'd say engineering will help a lot more than an MBA. If you want to get into running an IT department, then the MBA will give you the business savvy that higher-level management wants, but your CS background will keep you grounded in the technical details that your users will need.
antipaucity
I haven't seen anyone comment on the feasibility of obtaining a second degree, specifically from the perspective of university acceptance. I am a senior-level software engineer who holds a Master's degree (in Geography of all things), and have wanted for some time to pursue a degree in Computer Science. However, one barrier to pursuing this goal is the fact that here in the state of Washington, I have found only one university (WSU) that is receptive to the idea of a post-baccalaureate candidate pursuing an undergraduate degree (UW, Seattle U, and Gonzaga do not seem to offer these).
The other barrier stems from the fact that lack of formal academic training in computer science has never been a factor in my career progression. I initially started working with GIS and Remote Sensing systems, began coding to customize, and soon was learning C to code up data processing algorithms that basic GIS packages do not support out-of-the-box. Ten years later, I'm in a full-time software engineering position that has nothing to do with GIS or geospatial data. While I had always assumed in the past, when I was getting into programming, that not having a CS, Math, or Engineering degree would be an impediment to my progress, it has turned out to not be an issue at all. The irony is that I actually WANT to obtain such a degree, but I have not found it feasible to pursue, because universities aren't always receptive to granting second degrees, and my employer doesn't care if I have a relevant degree or not!
A masters or doctorate in this can go a great distance - kinda like an MBA but with a technology slant....
The world is full of MBAs - and they (and their apparent greed, incompetence and arrogance) are probably the biggest cause of problems in the corporate world today....
If your purpose is about money - get an MBA and rob every corporation you can and stay on the run.
Otherwise get a real degree and contribute.
Ugh, the last time we had a surplus of Business people in the economy they made themselves essential by pushing the Other Three Letters: TQM - Total Quality Management, which led to who knows how much total madness.
got a vision statement?
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
You've never seen a masters degree required in any job ads?
Try looking in the scientific, engineering and/or academic fields. The MS is often either required or preferred.
For instance, JPL often lists jobs as requiring X years or experience w/ BS degree or X/2 years of experience w/ MS degree.
Physics or math. Stay away from chemistry or biology. If you know physics and math you can figure out chemistry or biology, but not vice versa.
The possibility of late life unemployment was one of the many things that led me to "augment" my CS degree with an MD.
Medicine is one of the fields where if there is any age bias it is definitely in the older guy's favor.
I'm actually thinking seriously about specializing in radiology as it is the "geekiest" of medical specialties.
And my CS experience would definitely be helpful in working with all of the really cool high tech rad stuff.
Still have a while before all that is decided though.
1-1/2 years down...many more to go.
Goes a long way to teaching (and preserving) the ancient civilization of weaving basket. And maybe recapture those lost arts of basket weaving.
Plus, you can put that final nail of a couple more rural basket weavers into the obsolete technology career coffin. And keep the job where it belongs, technology pink-collar workers where they need it most.
Besides, you actually do get to put that Design Pattern book to good use.
Trust me...if you want to do anything in comp sci in upcoming years, you're going to need a lawyer...might as well make it you and save some money.
get a degree in Lottery...atleast you stand to have better odds of striking it rich than with a CS Degree
So I'm getting burnt out on programming and especially having to implement poor decisions by the management of my IT dept. Since I don't like to be a whiner, I figured if I think I can do better then I should move into IT management. So I went to grad school part-time to get a MBA. As soon as I finish my thesis, I'll graduate, officially.
I went to a fully accredited school with good name recognition and reputation, a solid state university, but not top tier. I could have gotten into a "better" school but none would do what the school I chose did: accommodate my work schedule, allow me to focus on IT for my graduate work and not put in me debt for years to come. Some of my classes were outstanding with professors who earned their PhDs at Stanford and Harvard. I enjoyed and learned a ton from my economics, operations and statistics, marketing, finance and accounting classes. Some of my classes were lame.
Regardless, I already have some interest from people hiring within my current department and friends of friends even though I haven't officially graduated yet so having a MBA, plus my 7+ years experience in IT, is opening IT management doors for me.
As many people said earlier, it depends what you want to do with it and what experience you have. The program I was in would not take someone just out of undergrad. You had to have a minimum of 5 years professional work experience and submit your objective as to what you wanted to get from having a MBA as a writing sample in addition to as minimum GMAT score.
That said, I have a friend who is at Columbia to get a MBA. He wants to work on Wall Street so Columbia is the perfect place for him to be. He told me the first year was a joke, alot of networking social events and schmoozing, very little actual work or studying. Since his undergrad degree was in business, there isn't anything being taught that he hasn't already been exposed to although he did say the second year has been a bit more rigorous. He told me that he realizes he's taken out 100K+ in loans so he can put Columbia on his resume and meet potential employers with whom Columbia has a relationship. Given what he wants to do, that's money well spent.
To the OP: take your time, figure out what you want to get out of it, weigh carefully the cost vs benefit of a top tier vs middle tier school and good luck!
- tokengeekgrrl
"I've rarely (read: never) seen a Masters degree required" http://www.equator.com/aboutus/JobDetails.php?id=6 4
I don't work there anymore. But several of Equator's employees had/have an MSCS.
Get an MSc, then a PhD, then an MBA.
In your BSc, you have learned some fundamentals. An MSc/MA/MPhil will take you to the next level; you will be able to read research-level academic papers and get more in-depth knowledge of certain areas within CS, and in your Master's thesis you can practice academic writing yourself and get a tiny taste of what research is like.
This will prepare you for your PhD, where you you will be working independently and become a leading expert in a narrow sub-area of your preferred sub-discipline.
We can now say you've learned how (following the wording of the parent post, but please do keep on studying - lifelong learning is true path). Next learn why (again using the parent post's wording; I'd prefer to call it 'learning how' still, just that the 'how' relates to business at this rather than technology). An MBA is a fast-track way to get an overview over business matters (financing, marketing, strategy, management). Of course you can also get a job instead and pick things up on the fly if you can't get a scholarship and don't have any savings. The job is the slow way, the MBA faster, but you might not lust for much future school education at this stage.
Congratulations! - Now you are what they call over-qualified: you can see problems everywhere that nobody else can see; you discover programmers are using the wrong algorithms, academic papers are full of technical and methodological flaws, and everywhere management is badly organised and lacking strategic vision, all of which might disillusion you.
Your feeling at this stage probably resembles what your Zen master wants to create inside you when he or she beats you with a stick in order to enlighten you. Now take some time off and think about something really clever to do because you're approaching a good age for early retirement.
Now you can impress you new boss!
It's simple. Get experience in your chosen field. Then, go back to school after, say 6 to 10 years to keep your proficiency high on a Masters' degree level -- and in an area where you have a lot of passion.
Of if you think you have no immediate marketability, you might try going into law school for three years. The first year is really tough, the second to a little easier. That way you can get immediate job offers from the FBI. If you pass your bar exam you can quickly go to work for Comp-Sci companies with legal issues like Microsoft, SCO, Apple, etc...
Of course in-house lawyers aren't real lawyers in my opinion, but they are employed and usually with benefits.
Gods don't kill people, people with gods kill people.
What do you like to do? Pick a degree that will let you do it and go for it. Getting an MBA may double your salary if you take a management job, but if you have no interest or affinity for management then you will quickly find yourself unsatisfied or unhappy, and then the degree is pretty much worthless.
Marketability is a great thing, but employers can tell when you have a passion for your work. I would prefer to have a single truly driven employee than three clock-punchers.
tsa
This is going to sound very odd, but have you considered Nursing? I have a couple of years experience as an ICU RN and I have to tell you that will the recent push towards electronic medical records, I could essentially pick where I want to work right now, and I don't see that fizzling out in my lifetime. I work in the hospital's IT department and finding the IT/RN combo doesn't seem to easy to come by these days. Food for thought.
CmSc and Psychology. That's what I'm going for but I want to get into AI research. :)
There's a huge demand for computational/quantitative folks in the biological sciences. Plus, the work you do there is freakin' cool (speaking as a theoretical neurobiologist).
You may find the following article in PLoS Biology interesting:
Mathematics Is Biology's Next Microscope, Only Better; Biology Is Mathematics' Next Physics, Only Better
You would be better off with many other degrees. CS is now taught as a major part of most other science/engineering degrees.
eat shiat and bark at the moon
Or, if a lobotomy isn't in your future, consider a secondary in one of the business related sciences -- business law, accounting.
Third choice -- if you plan to actually get a job when you grow up, take a course of study appropriate to the industry in which you intend to work (if that's the IT industry, well, see above about getting an MBA. Maybe they won't require a lobotomy; ECT may be enough
Most CS majors have a real problem with that specific language. Being able to translate between the two is highly marketable. Also knowing another language (Chinese, Spanish, French, Arabic) is a large bonus.
a mathematics degree with
software engineering and
some hardware knowledge makes for a damned useful combination - especially in a communications/signal processing environment playing with all sorts of signals and modulation schemes.
If you want a broad range of subjects to cover, go for Test Engineering, it covers a helluva lot of areas of interest to most geeks! And I don't mean script-writing etc, that's for the technicians. This is full-on test system implementation - a pivotal position in any engineering company is test automation for hardware/software.
Take a look at the Raytheon job site, or other sites, they are screaming out for people in test engineering roles! It is a vital role in major companies.
From my short experience, MBAs are suitable for older people who can't make it up the management chain on their own (this isn't intended as a troll). It is valuable though, as people have plastered all through this thread, the right MBA works wonders, much like a laxative.
Couldn't stand the weather
Depends on your interests. I suggest that you get a Minor in English before getting anything else. It would help you communicate better. A minor in a foreign language would also help. French for Europe or Spanish for the Americas. You can get those at a junior/community college where it would be less expensive. After you have worked 5 years, then get an MBA for management or the Math for the technical.
Pair your B.Sc. in Computer Science with some clown college, and you're all set for employment with Microsoft.
The Chronic *WHAT* les of Narnia!
At first, I thought of a Master's, but in my searches for a job, I've rarely (read: never) seen a Masters degree required.
Although very few job reqs state that a Master's degree is required this doesn't mean that a Master's degree isn't a valuable asset when evaluating job candidates. If a company has several candidates for a position and one has a Master's degree, the Master's is going to be a big plus for that candidate.
The best way to find out what type of further education would be most valuable to YOU is to interview people who are doing the type of work you want to be doing in 10-15 years. Ask them what education they have that A) enabled them to be hired for that job and B) best prepared them for that job. (These may not be the same thing.)
"I'd much rather be mistaken as a lesbian by a bigot than be mistaken as a bigot by a lesbian."
Personally, I'd try a law degree. It has the most marketability.
Q. What did the Bachelor of Arts graduate say to the MBA graduate?
A. Do you want fries with that, sir/madam?
Personally, I would say that an EE degree gives you pretty wide access to the market, but since I hire EE/CS dual degree people constantly, my view might be somewhat biased.
-- The Hollow Man
Non illegitimati carborundum
I plan to go on to East Asian Studies after I finish my CS degree. If the jobs are going to China, US companies will need professionals who understand the technology and the region.
-DB-
E-mail is like a prison: a prison with no walls... and no toilet. -Strong Bad
So when you go out and find you can't get a job as a techie anyway, you can at least entertain yourself by painting wonderful images onto the hamburgers you prepare...
3 degrees of separation from Vladimir Putin
In soviet Russia, slashdot outgrows you!
hehe, that made me giggle.
Oh, and if that doesn't pan out, get the MBA. Computer Science people are already well suited for those programs.
"Oh dear, she's stuck in an infinite loop and he's an idiot" -Prof. Farnsworth (Futurama)
So what you're saying is, you can code OK but you have poor communication skills and can't fit in with the corporate structure.
Don't want to be mean, but it isn't your CS degree that's the problem - the people getting the jobs have those too, remember - it's your lack of social skills.
Imagine someone with good people skills who can code too? I bet that person gets the job.
I'd rather see hiring based on pure skills, but that's not how U.S IT companies do it.
Until you find this magical job that allows you to be the sole developer on your own project, people skills are relevant skills for a programmer. It seems to be something you lack, so don't be surprised by your inability to find a job you feel is commensurate with your coding abilities.
This isn't college anymore. You don't get to work by yourself. A good coder who can't interact with people is less valuable than a decent coder who can.
If you care to notice, you could learn a valuable life lesson here.
If you're interested in computational biology or bioinformatics, you'll have it made in either academia or industry. With the genomic revolution looming, people who can apply their knowledge of CS and algorithms to biological/biomedical problems are in HUGE demand.
Feel free to replace biology with biochemistry, molecular biology, or biomedical engineering degrees, as your particular tastes warrant.
What ever happened to learning a skill? You ask what kind of degree and I'll ask "what do you want to do?"
In this day and age you're right and I'm wrong. People tend to advance based upon the letters after their name. In my warped mind they should instead advance based upon their mastery of skills.
Silly me.
. Quit playing Monopoly with Bill. Switch to one of many non-Microsoft products today.
and I am double majoring in Computer Science and Mathematics. I think that those two go together very well, though that is a much more theoretical and research based relationship.
If you want to use it in an applied way, there may be degrees in computer security which have more of a focus on the CIS side of technology with an emphasis on network security.
a Law degree is always good. We need more tech savvy lawyers.
I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
As an information systems professor, I sometimes get asked by people what kind of graduate business degree (MBA, MS IS, MSA, ...) goes best with a technical undergraduate degree (mine is systems engineering).
Carnegie Mellon and a few other schools have so-called "Techno-MBA" programs geared to managing technology and technical people. The programs leverage and extend your technical knowledge into the business domain. A plain vanilla MBA won't give you any of that. Why start over when you can use what you can build on what you already know?
The people who write Autocad are mechanical engineers who know how to program. The people who write guidance systems are physisists who know how to program. In essence, computer science is the means to solving a large and complex problem that has absolutely nothing to do with computers. Precious few programmers write code for operating systems and device drivers. The rest of us are fed system-level requirements by domain experts, sometimes referred to as "chief engineers" or "bosses."
Become an expert in a second technical field and you'll never go unemployed. Preferably a hard science such as biochemistry instead of another engineering discipline. It's the CompSci majors with no marketable skills beyond C++ and Java who are telling you to learn Hindi.
Foreign languages are helpful. It depends on the company, and where they have offices, plants, or what to expand.
I've debated learning Mandarin based on the possibility of China's future impact on the market.
You will be working there soon enough anyway - might as well speak the language
I have mod points and I am not afraid to use them
Juris Doctor
For a while after finishing college, you feel drawn back to the college life. Be sure you're not going back just because it's comfortable. If you don't even care if you're gonna become a manager, head-geek, marketdroid, tech-writer, tech-law guru or whatever (what *Degree* depends on your answer to that question), you're seriously not prime for grad school.
/.
One friend's dad offered to pay for her grad school completely after she'd worked 5 years. Wise man: she's never looked back.
Another friend, the smartest science/tech student in years at my high school, stopped with a BS, moved to Silicon Valley, and says she'd literally *fall behind* in her field if she left work for 1-3 years. I kind of doubt this, since she could nail additional courses in her area as they paralleled her work until the degree sorta just plopped in her lap one day. She publishes enough. She studies and learns new stuff enough. But the degree also stopped mattering to anyone she knows *years* ago.
Another friend nailed a triple major, which took him longer than the rest of us. It didn't gain him any of the cash or glamour he bragged he'd get. That's some serious money wasted.
My own take is that graduate work should wait until you start finding something really compelling to become gods-own-expert in. Let me say it again: if you don't even care if you're gonna become a manager, head-geek, marketdroid, tech-writer, tech-law guru or whatever (what *Degree* depends on your answer to that question), you're seriously not prime for grad school. Take a class or two. Or just dive into some side project to gain some focus: pick a subset from that list of career paths and find a way to get experience in it.
I did some grad courses, and exited because it was clear that I wasn't sure what I wanted to do yet, and figured if I was going to become a PhD, it had better be in something I gave a rat's-ass about.
Ten years later, I'm fairly certain what that might be. If I weren't having so much fun with work, wife, kids, life in general, I'd probably go back. Once the kids aren't a delightful distraction, I'll start picking an ideal college/mentor or three to contact and apply to.
Caveat: grad degrees are candy: I approve, but I don't preach 'em. OTOH, Bachelor's degrees are not optional IMHO: they're a 2-way vaccine: at some point not having one can kill your career advancement; and they're used by employers as a yardstick. Doesn't apply to you, doesn't matter here, but it's a big deal to me: I've seen a few friends really hurt by not having BS behind their name (usually happens pretty late in life). Mileage may vary and that's my humble opinion and the value-of-a-degree subject has been hammered to death on
1. Do something you're interested in (good advice from many other posters). 1) Easier to do; 2)Easier to do good in something you enjoy than to struggle with something you dislike.
2. If you want to teach, you need at least a Master's. Dept chairs have to manage their faculty degree ratios, so the "higher" your degree, the more useful you are. Otherwise, I wouldn't focus so much on levels.
3. If research interests you, then the M.S. -> PhD in compsci is the path.
4. The most useful course I ever took: Business Law (yes, I slept through English comp...). In just about every job I've had in 25+ professional years, I've had to know something about contracts and contract law. Even in the technical jobs, you're typically working on one end or the other of a contract, so it is extremely helpful to know how your work is directed. This advice would push preference to business degrees, but see #1 first.
5. It's not about the degree, it's about what you do with it. Your most valuable asset is the package you present to employers, and I'm not talking about diplomas. Your ability to think, communicate, and execute are formost on the minds of folks who have to rely on you to do their work. Use the experience of pursuing a degree to enhance your ability to think, communicate and execute. I know tons of folks with paper who have a hard time getting through the day, because they focused on the paper and not the experience behind it.
My personal view is that you should be true to yourself first. Not for any feel-good metaphysical reasons, but to avoid work being constant dudgery and more important avoid stress, high blood pressure, depression or other health conditions that may be caused by your work/job/career.
What Should I Do with My Life? by Po Bronson is worth a read if only to make you stop and think about what is personally important to you. Success is a personal goal, on your deathbed you will not give a toss about what other people (the general public, co-workers; I don't mean family or close friends) think of you, but how you feel about yourself.
There is no sense of starting an MBA if it is not you. Of course education is to get you the skills and knowledge to get an entry level job (above mail room boy and coat check girl hopefully) from which you will derive experience which is what hirinig managers really like to see on a resume.
It's not for everyone, but a Master's in Library/Information Studies could lead to interesting things, eg. systems librarian at a university. The field desperately needs more professionals with IT experience/abilities, and there's a real opportunity to make a difference since we'll be working through the impact of new technologies for the foreseeable future.
Pay's not that great, but there's a decent amount of job security. Plenty of opportunities for advancement coming up as the boomers start to retire.
Have fun. It won't matter in the long run what you do.
Unable to read configuration file '/bigassraid/htdig//conf/14229.conf'
Geocrawler error message.
Five years ago I would have agreed with you. However today, given the way things are moving, it has to be law.
Studies now say that Master of Fine Arts (MFA) is the new MBA since the current opinion is that creativity can't be taught. SO to be hip and trendy get an MFA!
Stop intellectual property from infringing on me
I've found my music composition degree to be most useful for working creatively with set theory. I wouldn't recommend a full 4 year degree in music composition or theory, but perhaps getting one's feet wet with basic theory and practice would use help turn that corpus callosum into a high-speed highway.
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
How about "Women's Studies?" :)
Whatever you're interested in. The exact degree makes zero difference, as long as it's not theatre or something.
I got (am getting, to be precise - finishing the one last course this semester) a BS in CS and Economics. I got into econ because I liked it, but it's got elements of business and statistics in it - quite handy as a supporting major.
I would also suggest that intelligent extra-currics can be good, too. I was an active officer of my LUG for a few years, and it was instrumental in getting me my current (and awesome) job. ACM and AWC are similarly good - they help you network, and that's handy as hell.
-Erwos
Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
How about linguistics?
Specially if you're into theoretical Computer Science. Linguistics brushes against Format Languages.
It would also help with your writing skills, if you're in need of that.
It's like a link between Math minds and English minds.
Where i work our dream softie is someone with a ComSci and an ElecEng degree, though we do more embeded software. I recon ComSci and pure maths would be a good one for high brow software ;) or an ComSci and MBA for business systems.
Better to know you aren't marketable (Philosophy), than mistakenly think you are (MBA).
There are so many submissions about finding jobs, /. needs a category for it. If not, then what are some good forums to visit related to finding I.T. jobs?
I got my degree in Music. If your goal is to make a lot of money and retire early, this is not the degree for you, and I am not recommending it for you. However, I am quite happy with my choice of degree.
I would suggest you choose a program that interests and excites you, and completely ignore the financial aspects (unless that is what interests and excites you).
I ultimately ended up going into computer programming. I am completely self taught. My lack of a degree has never been a huge problem.
Since the age of 30, I've been able to work on jobs that are fun and that I derive significant pleasure from. There are other jobs that pay more, but it's not worth it to me if I will be unhappy. Being happy is more important than being rich.
I'm now 42. I'm not a millionaire, but I live comfortably - I have enough. Most importantly, I'm very happy, and I often drive to work with a big shit-eating grin on my face.
This happiness is my most valuable asset - it helps me to get new jobs when I need them (because people like to work with happy people) and it is significantly more valuable than my degree.
A Masters in flipping burgers.
I know a few people here at my university who are dual majors in CS and Political Science. At first it seemed like an odd combination, but it works quite well both in terms of academics and employment prospects.
Political Science classes tend to be pretty flexible in terms of managing writing and reading assignments, so they mesh good with the more deadline-intensive CS projects. Since Poli Sci tends to emphasize writing, its also a good major to build your language skills with. (Not to mention, a political theory class with a unit on Machiavelli has priceless potential when its lessons are applied in the workplace!)
In terms of employment, there are a ton of opportunities in academia, business, and government. There's a surprisingly large demand for techies in political research, as things like polls often require lots of customized code to carry out statistical analyses. Then there's the government potential... a Poli Sci degree is a ticket into many government agencies, and combined with Comp Sci, you bring useful and much needed tech skills... (you'd be especially well suited if you wanted to go down that whole secret agent CIA/NSA/FBI sort of route).
Similarly, Sociology or Psychology also work well with CS from what I've heard, for many of the same reasons. So definitely don't overlook the social sciences as an option.
Law. The coming years will be happy hunting for lawyers with technical backgrounds as companies savage each other in patent wars.
If you also get a graduate degree in psyciatry then you can provide yourself therapy to help cope with all the idiots out there that don't have aclue about the level of expertise or value of the skills you learned for your first degree.
I will never live for sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.
I'm surprised no one said project mgmt yet. Some day, maybe you'll want to have a broader impact. I'd say MBA is overrated and anyway certainly not the best next step after development. You're a good techie. Now learn to plan, lead and deliver (read: get a team to deliver). Get a degree in PM. It won't teach you everything you need to know to be a good PM but that, with technical skills, and, most importantly, people skills will get you a long way.
What goes well with any bachelor of science? A degree in English. OH /my/ GAWSH! An ENGINEER who can WRITE!
To be serious, though, if you can write decently, having a degree in this is a true door opener. I feel fortunate to have grown up with a knack for good writing skills, and it has made available to me a number of very interesting opportunities. The downside, of course, is that you may get pegged for technical writing. I once spent six months documenting a custom software program and writing a User's Guide in prep for public "out of box" release. Ugh. I learned then just how horrible MS Word is for large documents and will never use it again.
most good MBA programs will not accept a candidate unless they have 5 plus years of expereince. There is a reason for this. Ideally I say get your degree in CS then find a job. Decide a.) if you liek the field and want to continue in it. and b.) do you wish to move up in managment. Keep in mind most managers don't actually program just manage programers. The biggest complaint i've heard from managers is that after moving up in the managment wrongs they rarely get to do what they love. so choose wisely.
Even though i'm not in the field I've always got the impression programmers who have a math background are worth their weight in gold.
ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
no, seriously, a degree is no magic key
I would recommend that you go do some real WORK
then, it will be obvious what additional class work will help you to do that WORK better
the point is that WORK is the goal to make $$$ or better yourself, just taking classes and collecting degree certificates is just masturbation for those who are afraid to WORK
I see a lot of people advocating MBAs or CPAs and so forth. I think this is great advice if you want to be a manager in a software company, be an auditor, and so forth. In other words, this is the route to go if you want to work with technology, but you don't want to be a developer.
If, on the other hand, you'd prefer to program computers and write software, I can think of no better match than mathematics. The analytical skills you will develop by doing proofs in number theory, combinatorics, and analysis give you a significant edge. You'll be able to understand the notation used in research papers and convey your ideas much more precisely.
Math will also give you a solid basis to work from if you decide you would like to go on to get a Masters or Ph.D. in CS.
At the risk of inciting a flame war, if you can write, I'd suggest law school, and more specifically, patent law. There's a lack of people who understand technical aspects of computer science and software, and can write about it. Damn computers are everywhere -- software and software-enabled inventions are becoming more and more prominent.
(My original degrees are in computer science and physics; went back after a decade or so for the law degree. Spent the weekend hacking python to turn router logs into something more useful.)
You won't make the world's greatest salary, but you'll work with the world's greatest people -- AND you'll be on the side of the angels in the fight against corporate domination of the information universe.
Join the librarians! You'll be glad you did. Even in spite of the Michael Gormans of the world.
The time you spent in school could be spent learning on the job. If you are having trouble finding a job, then take a low-level entry level job to get started.
As for learning, keep reading books at a pace of about 1 per month.
--
Paleolithic
No, the USPTO allows CS people to sit for the Patent Bar now. It is a Category A degree now. Of course, previously you could petition your way in under Category B.
I certainly wouldn't waste my time in law school unless I could sit for the USPTO exam (or your land's equivalent).
This is the F'ing toughest exam I have ever taken. Makes the state bar look like a cake walk. Also no law school classes help you with this. Not even the Patent Law class. I suggest (and YMMV) you take the exam after you clerk and have some experience with the procedures of the PTO.
Typical question:
Using the non-searchable PDF of the Manual of Patent Examination Procedure (a Yellow Pages telephone book sized document). Below are 5 sentences from the MPEP. We have added the word "not" to four of these sentences. Which sentence did we not alter?
Also, while it doesn't matter for CS & EEs, if you are going into the BioMed area, many inventors don't want to talk to you unless you have a PhD or Med degree.
I wouldn't mind having Natalie Portman as a master...
I'm a New Zealander and did a conjoint BSc/BCom in Computer Science and Operations Management. Conjoint means that I did 2 degrees in 4 years (most NZ Bachelor's degrees take 3 years).
I did a BCom (Bachelor of Commerce) because I felt it would help me understand business a whole lot better than a science degree. So far I've been proved right - being able to talk to business people in their terms and convert that back to the realm of software is a very lucrative skill.
I talked with a big employer, and found that the working conditions were foul. Everyone was working 60 to 70 hours per week, and the talk in the office was: ``How's your divorce going?'' and: ``Have you heard from your ex?''. They were looking for someone to work on inflation forcasting, value at risk, and so on. Neat problems, and the reources to solve them, but you couldn't have a life.
For me, quant finance is right out because the cultural expectations make for toxic workplaces. That's really a pity.
When you're evaluating a career, one of the most important things to look at is where could you work? Which employers, and in which places? Would you want to work for that company, in that place? Would you be happy working there long enough to make the years of school worthwhile? If you're thinking about something like quant finance, how long could the money make up for the other aspects of the job?
See what I've been reading.
No, I'm not advocating becoming a Microsoft shill. Check out the various Professional Master of Science programs. Think of it as an MBA for scientists. There's a wide range of disciplines and, best of all, not thesis.
MIS or Management of Information Systems. This will give you more of the business part of it, but still keeping it mostly technical. and some certifications....
If you have a comp sci degree with some EE or experience in the hardware world its more like top-50. Patent law is split between the megafirms and boutiques right now with the megafirms swallowing the small shops at a very fast pace. Megafirms are a bit stricter in their hiring standards, small places may be founded by an attorney from a lower tier schoool and hire heavily from that school. Salarywise there isn't much of a difference (with bonuses there is).
Even if you don't have EE skills there is still a market for people who understand computer languages/protocols. It may mean that you spend months reverse engineering firmware or reading design specs at first.
To answer some other posters, you don't have to take the patent bar unless you plan to prosecute patents,
attention to detail is the most important asset in law school (the B types are the ones that get summa).
How about Electronics then? You know how to write great code - but how about combining this ability with some in-depth hardware knowledge in order to design the next killer gadget?
You ask which additional degree you should get. But you don't say what you're interested in. That's like trying to pick a highway without knowing what city you want to go to.
Get an MBA if you're interested in business and want to advance to management.
Get a Masters if you want to be hyper-technical.
Get a Physics degree if you want to design computing systems in nanotech.
And get a clue that in the end knowledge counts more than degrees. That's why they're not asking for Masters degrees.
It can't be that hard, it's only ones and zeros: http://onesandzeros.tangozulu.biz
(1) Computer Science degree
(2) Law degree (preferably patent)
(3) MBA
(4) ???
(5) profit
(6) corporate boardroom
(7) really, really profit!
With compsci + MBA, you'll have headhunters tracking you down because they heard about you from someone else.
Not that I have either (close to a comp sci degree). I just know people that do.
I rarely criticize things I don't care about.
I'd have to say that a physics degree will compliment that B.S in comp sci quite nicely. IMO no other program gives you such problem solving skills. Many who get their B.S in Physics end up going to medical school, law, and business.
The biggest computer networks in most areas are located in the public school system, but in Georgia at least, you usually have to have a degree in Education to land many of the available jobs. It's not the highest paying jobs out there, but its very stable, lots of bandwidth, good benifits, and not too much pressure (you get to go home and not think about work, if you so choose!)
P
-- My dog can beat up your dog.
Since patent infringement and defenses against suits related to it, seem to be the business model of the future for software firms, how about a Law degree?
A writing degree. Professional writing, journalism, editing, anything like that. Stack it heavily with the sort of courses that teach you how to find your way around punctuation (other than != and :: and $_=~/^$/; and the like...).
Functional literacy is rarer than you'd think, even among uni grads. A programmer who can communicate in human language is a valuable thing -- I'm one, and I've rarely been out of work since almost graduating 15 years ago, so I think I can say this with authority.
And lest you think you'll be dumped in the corner to write (ugh!) documentation, don't worry. There are other things you can do that will be less onerous. Programs have error messages and user interfaces, and you don't have to search far to find really, really ugly uses of human language in these. You can be the saviour! Go for it.
I have discovered a truly remarkable
Indeed. MBA's are generally considered most useful if you have had some real world experience. Lots of UK Uni's wont even let you enroll for an MBA unless you've worked full time for up to 4 years.
I'm sort of trapped too, so make sure its something that will benefit your future. I have a BA in GIS and an M.Sc in I.T Management and currently work selling chickens. True story.
Having a C.S. degree, you'd reach double to quadruple your salary if you can last going back to school for another 3 years full time. Most of the people who word in Trademark and Copyright law don't even know what the technology does that they're trying to protect. Of course, being that this is an Open Source Website, this recommendation kind of goes against the purpose of the venue we are using to communicate :-(
How long do you think you are going to stay out of trouble this time?
You speak as if getting these degrees automatically "qualifies" you for a career in patent law. The fact is this is just a foot in the door. Many people get that foot in the door, only to fall on their face because they lack the *talent* it takes to be a patent lawyer worthy of the kind of pay you're hearing about.
Really, it depends on your career goals. But have you considered Software Engineering?
// TODO: Insert Cool Sig
You can only get one undergraduate degree. After that it's all graduate school. A double major is still one undergrad degree.
Enough said.
perception is reality
Hmmm. Why not pick something that interests you. As someone with 27 years programming experience, lets just say that money isn't everything. Nevertheless, I've had a hard time getting full-time computer work for over 3 years (at least in Canada; I get offers to the States but can't move just yet). So I'm now preparing to beef up my math background with a BA Math, MSc Applied Math, and hopefully a PhD Applied Math.
On the other hand, there are several combinations that would make you very marketable:
Masters of Technology - similar to an MBA but specifically geared to technology companies
Law degree - Computer Law is sorely lacking in knowledgeable people. Look what's going on with the US Patent Office. Ridiculous patents are being granted for "algorithms" that belong to Mathematics, not to some powerful conglomerate. Once upon a time, patents couldn't be granted for techniques in the public domain. So why has that changed?
Electrical Engineer - You just might become the creator of the next CPU design.
Human Kinetics - Computers will never go away. How we use them might. So design input devices that suit our physiology makes great sense. Let's get rid of poorly designed laptops, please.
Geography degree - maybe you'd enjoy pairing your Comp Sci degree with digital mapping and Geographic Information Systems (GIS). Geographical analysis for business and government use has been increasing steadily since the mid-80s. GIS has many, many applications. While you do not need a full Geography degree to use or even design a GIS, knowing geographical/mapping terms, spherical projections, etc., is quite useful.
For those of you with a strong creative bent, pair up your Comp Sci with:
Fine Arts - ever consider being a digital illustrator/ animator? Our Canadian arts colleges seem to have most of our grads snapped up by Disney and other American companies
Music - Electronic composers are making a name for themselves on TV shows like CSI, CSI:Miami, and CSI:NY, amongst others. Unfortunately, it's not that easy to get into this biz, nor in computer game music. (Check out the Los Angeles Institute of Music's distance course "Music for the Media" at www.musicforthemedia.com.)
-- punkmonk --
I wouldn't sweat choosing a specific degree program unless you are truly passionate about that program. Apply to a variety of programs that interest you and see where you are accepted. Then choose the one that interests you the most. However, be sure that your choice keeps you in the thick of something interesting and hard. Doing anything because of what outsiders feel is a good match is a bad idea. Moreover, your choice of degree will probably have little to do with your ultimate career (unless you get the Ph.D.) I got a B.S. in math. Then I didn't know what to do with myself, so I got a Master's degree in math. Then I still didn't know what to do, so I started a Ph.D. My biggest regret was that I took a part-time job at a reseach lab because I felt it would 'compliment' my Ph.D. The job and degree program both screwed me, and I took a job as a computer programmer.
As far as getting an MBA goes. I went back to school and just finished mine. It was a great decision, because I did it for all the right reasons. Specifically, I wanted to do it for me and not because it fell under someone's version of 'proper fit'
Just because no jobs require an MS in CS doesn't mean it won't help. I personally plan to get one becasue I want to teach Computer Science. I guess if you don't plan on teaching, it might not be that big a help.
Certification (Sun/Java, Red Hat, etc) will help a lot.
If you want to move up into managment, I'd suggest an MBA and if you'd like to get jobs doing more documentation, presentations, technical writing, etc. an English or Technical Writing undergrad might be a good idea too.
Looking through this post, I think all my choices are weighted for what I want to do: teach Comptuer Science and/or write magazine articles and technical documentation.
You really need to custom taylor your post-grad education to what you really want to do.
-Sumit
I had become quite familiar with computers and programming by the time I hit university, so mixed a bunch of computer science courses, with a Bachelor of Commerce. Best move I ever made. I think part of the decision was influenced by working (during my high school days) with some pure C.S. graduates, who didn't have much of a clue about the real world.
There are so many business concepts that are lost on people with some basic training in the area. For example, the concept of "sunk costs" (excuse me if my terminology is rusty); it doesn't matter what you have invested in a given attempt; it solely matters what the incremental cost involved in that approach and your other alternatives at hand. (That is, it doesn't matter that you've sunk a ton of resources into an effort; if there's an alternative that is incrementally easier than finishing your original attempt, don't be sentimental!) That's a fairly fundamental concept in business, but not necessarily outside of that realm. I've seen more than one disaster due to the thought that "well, we have so much invested in this approach, we can't change now..." even when there was a far better (and often open source) alternative that would have been a better solution to solve the need at hand. Other concepts such as present value/future value, annuities, and so on, really do help one make better programming decisions and design in the business world.
It's paid off for me a thousand times over, and I expect it to continue to do so.
As a close second, I would recommend psychology; computers interact with people, and in my opinion, do so in ways that could be drastically better if programmers had a better foundation in human psychology. (And this does actually overlap with business, to a certain degree.)
-d
Love many, trust a few, do harm to none.
HCI.
I suggest getting some education in an area you are already interested in. i.e. hobbies, sports, geology, cars, whatever. You can then use your skills to apply the CS degree to the other area, what ever that may be.
You will be MUCH more valuable to employers in that specific field than any generic degree. Plus you end up enjoying your job so much more!
A good patent lawyer doesn't simply tell their client whether something is patentable. A good patent lawyer finds a way to make whatever their client brings them patentable in the broadest way possible.
If you have any doubts about how well the patent system works, this job is not for you. It's very much like a typically defense lawyer. Your job is to get the person the lightest sentence possible regardless of crime with faith in the fact that the system in general will work regardless of your abilities.
I'm not making a judgement about how well the system works or doesn't work. Just pointing out that you should consider this before you pursue this path.
And for what it's worth, dealing with IP lawyers has been the most pleasant lawyer-related experience I've had. Extremely bright people.
For some reason CS degrees don't actually require you to do this.
I would say something that trains you in user interface design, usability and related topics. For example a dual major with Communications with a Focus in HCI. Too many programmers these days have NO IDEA what their users really want, they design for themselves. A good HCI education is the first step towards that goal.
Loads of good suggestions so far, but if you don't want to get experience or become an accountant or... you might consider adding a few courses in computer security or even getting a criminal justice degree. Homeland Security is hiring computer security people, last I heard, and there is a strong demand for people who understand computer forensics (though police departments don't have Homeland's budget!).
I'm currently doing my master's at Carnegie Mellon University in Software Engineering . I am tremendously happy with the program. The problem with basic CS degrees is that they teach you the fundamentals of computer science, and how to code but they don't teach you ANYTHING about what it means to write software. There is a lot more that goes into software than hacking at code, and this is usually lost on the B.S. CS students (and all the local know-it-all sysadmins). The program is a mixture of software project management, and things like software architecting, program analysis, and there are other cool courses like Fault Tolerant Distributed Systems (the one i spent 45 minutes talking about during my recent Google interview). The program has definitely changed my outlook on software, and I would HIGHLY recommend it to anyone. Within the next ten years we're (America) going to have to start teaching at least rudimentary software engineering skills to our students or else ALL of the jobs are going to be going to India and China where they care about something other than making sure that students understand about automata and graph theory. We've got an almost 100% job placement rate (right through the dot-com burst too) and my friends from the program have jobs working at places like Amazon and Google. Good Luck whatever you decide.
You never know, if all else fails ...
I figured that it might also help me professionally, since I'd be a one-person web-site-designing-and-coding powerhouse. Maybe, but after the dot-bubble burst, no one was interested. So if you're asking what combo would be the most profitable, a BFA ain't the answer. But if you're asking what you might get the most enrichment out of, it might be.
My suggestion is to think back to whatever your second choice would have been back when you were a picking a major your freshman year, and get a bachelor's degree in that.
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
Geography is a functional area in which you can make EXTREMELY good use of CS skills, applying them to solving sophisticated complex problems rather than just punching out code. Geospatially aware software is a huge and growing market, and it can pay VERY VERY well. Take for instance that the #2 software provider (next to MS) to the federal government is ESRI, a GIS company.
plus, geography chicks are HOT.
People who think they know everything really piss off those of us that actually do.
If you already have a Bachelor's degree and feel that you need to enhance your "marketability", perhaps you need to consider revisiting reality. If you're having trouble finding a job with a 4-year degree, what makes you think you'll have better luck with another one? You need to spend some time in the workforce and develop some practical experience. I guarantee THAT will help your "marketability".
Math is an excellent major to pair with Computer Science. If you can do math, and are especially comfortable with discrete math, you will be an excellent programmer and be better at approaching problems. I am doing a master's in CS right now, and working as a SW engineer, and I really wish I knew math better. Without a good math background, you're like a handyman without a hammer. On a more personal note, depending on the way you roll, it's nice to develop other parts of your brain (ok, meet women.) Psychology, women's studies, English, education, art, music, are all excellent majors for meeting ladies. CS isn't.
If you know multiple languages *well*, that means your mind can shift from one language to another and you can think in either language. That same skill is used when you try to explain something to a non-technical person (read: boss).
Coupled with your CS degree, that will tell future employers know you know what your doing, and the two degrees will tell them you will take it up the ass for nickles and still be a team player. The BS in Hindu will come in handy on your second interview since you will need to go overseas to find employment. Have a marvelous time, see you on Monster.
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Does anyone look at degrees anymore? Honestly, from what I've seen in IT, it's experience that matters, not education.
I've interviewed guys with degrees and tons of certifications that couldn't hold a candle to some of the guys that never attended college.
Unless it's from a school with prestige, such as MIT, I don't think a degree really helps you get a job or move up the ladder. It's all about what you've learned while working that makes a difference.
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Unlike what is suggested by the parent, you don't "pick up" a little bit of molecular biology, or bioinformatics, or computational biology. The focus of your studies should be in studying the biology and then dabbling in a little bit of CS. Hell, I'm doing computational biology research and datamining bacterial genomes, and you hardly even need to know how to develop applications. I've primarily been doing scripting in PERL, and I'm trying to pick up a little python. If you know the fundamentals of programming, you don't even need to take a CS course.
If you're not motivated to do the biology coursework behind bioinformatics, you will not get anywhere in your career. Labs want people who can code a bit, not people who understand the fundamentals of designing operating systems. Mathematics, statistics, and scripting will get you farther than CS and a bit of bio will ever get you. Choose wisely.
I am defenseless. Use your button. Mod me down with all of your hatred.
I have a Bachelor of Science degree in Computer Science and recieved a Masters of Professional Communication degree from Westminster College in Salt Lake City, UT. My masters degree has paid for itself many times over. In my experience I've found that alot of technical people have trouble communicating with the rest of the people in their respective organizations, especially those outside of the IT department. Works for me. ds
What on Earth does Rimmer's Bronze Swimming Certificate have to do with job opportunities you smegging gimboid novelty condom?
I was pursuing a computer-science degree, but wasn't enough of a geek. For example, I had to take physics classes, waaaay too much calculus, and couldn't understand whatever non-English language(s) the comp-sci instructors spoke. I didn't see what the pressure of water behind a dam, or the velocity of a cat being tossed over a fence, had to do with computers. Plus, I had no interest in writing compilers, or assembly language (which I was awful at).
What to do, what to do...It turned out that my university was offering a brand-new (at the time) management-information systems degree, which was geared more toward systems analysis, programming languages, etc. I jumped ship in my junior year, and it was much better. It turned out I had completed waaaaay too much math for the MIS major, so that part was easy.
I graduated with a BA in MIS, and a minor in computer science. Bass-ackwards, yes, but I can't complain: I've been continuously employed for the past decade-and-a-half (programming, sysadmin'ing, DBA'ing), and I make enough $$$ to support me/wife/2 kids on my salary alone. (It's really nice for our kids to have their mom at home.)
Sometimes I wish I had a BS instead of a BA, but that's life. As it turns out, I ended up with a good business background that I wouldn't have had otherwise. My advice: Pair your CS major with a business minor, at the very least. If you're looking for something "lite", you can have a business degree and a CS minor. The former is worth more $ up-front, but you'll be able to write your own ticket either way if you get smart about the business world.
Take the money you're going to spend on getting another degree and start a business instead.
paintball
If you know physics and math you can figure out chemistry or biology, but not vice versa.
This is the most bone-headed thing I have ever read on Slashdot. It boggles the mind how stupid this statement is. My head feels like it's going to explode.
Seriously, get a clue.
I am defenseless. Use your button. Mod me down with all of your hatred.
a nice 18 year old single malt bottle of scotch.
I think i've worked it out! You are the biggest dunderhead of all kinds i learned that 1) he had a dollar for every judge who's asked that, and i've always avoided the question.
Because you are a common target for murderers for the wannabie hacker faggot, you'd go and work on a cross of iron.
Money is nice, but knowledge is power. I would counter your suggestion of MBA with the pursuit of a Master's in Comp. Sci. During that time make sure to get heavily involved in research. Designing systems is where it's at. Because at the end of the day, if you have a lot of money in the bank, that's OK, but if you've changed the world with a revolution you will have achieved the highest goal a man can wish for: immortality. Stallman has done this. You could be next.
MBA's are a dime a dozen these days, sure it is a good standard degree to get, but unless you are a strong business type it isn't going to rake in the cash. If you want to know what drives the beast and you can stomach the curriculum get an accounting degree from a GOOD school (when it comes to business and accounting degrees name unfortunately does matter). That coupled with a good knowledge of technology and a CS degree will allow you to write your own ticket. Assuming you aren't a mole person with no social skills.
...an MS in Dumpster Diving followed with a PhD in Urban Camping Technologies.
That is all.
And what I don't get is: why? Why do these offices assume they're gonna get better work out of their employees if they burn them out?
Tweet, tweet.
Almost all the posts so far have been business or industry related (with some interesting exceptions). Yet there are so many other opportunities out there, even for someone with "just" a cs degree, or with a combination of qualifications.
For example, if you were interested in the sciences (and even if you pick only one of them, eg physics) there are a huge number of different areas involving both fundamental and applied research using computational modelling. A pairing with any science degree can lead directly into the academic world (just like a cs degree), where in my opinion, the pay might not be as good as industry, but the social life, lower stress, and longer/more flexible time off leads to a better quality of life (along with ample opportunity to travel, especially if you use postdoc as a means for getting 2/3 year contracts in universities all round the world), and there is also plenty of room for working your way up (and it's not qualification based after your PhD, only results and a little political based).
Back on the money making business though :P...... :P
If you're only two years out from your primary degree, you don't want to be getting an MBA so early, it should be primarily for people in their mid 30's already on the managerial ladder. For anyone in their 20's it doesn't look good, because for many of the jobs they might apply for they would be over qualified in the eyes of the interviewer. They would be people expecting/demanding a higer pay, and would be likely to move on quickly to better things. As a consequence of this, for people who then reach their 30's without significant inroads to the admin/managerial side of things, it looks bad on their CV to have an MBA since their 20's and not make the progress that might be expected of MBA graduates.
I apologise for the wishy-washy-ness of the "maybe"s and "would"s etc etc, it just can't be helped by me
Why do you think that? I agree that CS isn't the same as an EE (or even a CE), but it's an awfully tough degree to complete. I do know that differential equations is not a degree requirement for most CS programs, but otherwise, we're required to take two to three semesters of calculus, at least two semesters of a hard science (I chose physics and ended up doing four full semesters of it), statistics and, of course, a boatload of computer classes, including a few EE courses (and, of course, the requisite english/history/time-wasting stuff, too). Other than the core curiculum (and the added requirement of diffie-q), EE always looked pretty similar to CS to me. You're right - it's not an engineering degree... CS is closer to a math degree. It's still pretty hard to get, though. I don't see why you should be insulted, unless you've done a CS program and found it to be trivial compared to your engineering studies.
Proud neuron in the Slashdot hivemind since 2002.
My good friend evi nemeth has always said that there seems to be a net constant amout of "clue" in the ever expanding computer science universe. I tend to agree in the sense that the number of very powerful technical people in computer science remains quite small. These powerful people might be world wide experts in a tiny irrelevent domain, but nevertheless their value in a business context comes instead from their broad knowledge, their problem solving skills, and their ability to communicate and execute. They are not only smart people with good instincts, but smart people that get things done. Since your goal is pecuniary, your question, relative to my answer, is how can you become such a powerful person. I have known some who are unschooled and seem, like a primitive painter, to have their own sense of perspective untainted by a schooled view and hence are so out of the box as to be uniquely empowering. But based on your question this is not your path. Most everyone else gets there by spending a decent amount of time around smart, creative, and effective people in the discipline and figuring out how to think, communicate, and execute like them. A good place to do this is at a good PhD granting computer science department. You don't even have to be a student, but it helps. Another great place would be in a number of corporate research labs if you can score a position that gives you enough access.
I find it not unusual that most of the posts on this are about making money and increasing your wealth. What about what makes you happy? If you already have a decent paying job, and you have the opertunity to go back to school, why not get the music degree, liberal arts, or what have you? Its sad that life is now about money and not happiness.
I think you should pursue a B.S. or MSc in physics, biology or chemistry. It will give you a more broad knowledge and you can work in almost any scientific field, from medicine to engineering. I'm a phycisist and currently I'm working for a bioingenieering groups that studies magnetic resonance in medicine!
Personally, I am a B.S. Computer Science / B.A. French major. It's a good combo.
I'm currently a freshman student going for a B.S in Computer Science. Now, I will admit that I dont have the same expirence in the coporate world as many of you all have had, however, I am dual-majoring in Philosophy.
I originally considered dualing with an MBA but thats what *everyone* has. I like to think (and hope) that in the coporate world, individuality counts for somthing. If 30 programmers apply for a position, all having CS/Business degrees and 1 applys with a CS/Philosophy degree, I would hope the Philosophy guy would get the position.
Now, I also chose Philosophy because I think its fun. Part of going to school is not just learning to help you in the job market, but to actually better yourself through knowledge. I would suggest find somthing that interests you and go for that.
that after ~4 years of college you still don't know what the hell you want to do that you need to ask people here... In virtually every industry you can find people who have weird degrees that don't seem to jive with their present area of specialization. These are people that are exceptionally good at and passionate about what they do, and their degree doesn't ultimately make a difference. If you haven't figured this out, I might suggest going for a masters in Philosophy.
chill.
I did my undegraduate in CS and now, 10 years later, I'm doing my Masters in CS. I thought about doing an MBA, but honestly, it just seemed to boring and "work" like. I'm doing my MS in CS now and loving every minute.
If I had gone with the MBA route, I think it just would have been hell.
Live web cams
Because it's all a bunch of BS...
It's called bioinformatics, and it's hot. If you ever considered pursuing the MD, get on it.
ascii art
An employer is no more interested in some kid who says hes contributing to an open source project than one who hasn't.
Working on open source projects doesn't identify any other skills other than motivation, which most recruiters can identify from a few interviews. Also, it doesn't show that you can work in a full-time environment with real development processes and not the ragtag un-organized development that most OSS projects face.
If you can't show that you can work 9-5 for 40+ hours a week (through internships or other experiences) then you'll get passed up for someone who can.
The following are all equivalent:
(1) Master of Business Administration
(2) Master of Bullshit Artistry
(3) Master of Cock Sucking
(4) Master of Ass Kissing
(5) Bachelor of Snake Oil Salesmanship
An artful PowerPoint Presentation by a BullShitter beats an Engineering Assessment Every F*cking Time
you know, manufacturing.
If you're happy and you know it, think again!
Applied Narcotics.
"But if you were writing a physics engine, a Physics degree would be useful."
:)
I don't think that you need a whole physics degree to write a physics engine. They're just gravity, friction and momentum, stuff you've fully learnt by 16 or 17. If you can do CS you're presumably able to handle some vector equations, and no one is putting complicated stuff like fluid dynamics or relativity in their games (yet).
That said, physics is great. Astronomy is also really cool. If you're just interested in learning mind-expanding stuff, do physics. It's also fairly good for getting a job, but you might start considering most employment too mundane
Slashdot - Mutual Assured Discussion
You might look down on an AA as most in the slashdot crowd would, but I'd suggest you don't give into that ignorance and foolishness.
The logic follows fully: when all the more IT jobs get sent overseas, there will still be a need for people with marketable yet decidedly domestic requirements: plumbers, electricians, carpenters, conservation and police officers, and what have you. Sure, the work might not be your idea of "fun", and doesn't pay more than you're making now (probably), but it's a job which will always be there, and isn't bottom of the barrel. Plus, you'd be surprised how easy it is to enjoy non-office work. Office work just sucks the life out of most people.
It pays to diversify in something which will be of benefit for you. I can't honestly say I think that the US market is going to be anything but stable over the next 10 years or so, but that's just my amateur opinion. That, and diversifying is good for you as a person.
~/ssh slashdot.org ssh: connect to host slashdot.org port 22: too many beers
What's the best tech/science field for people interested in traveling abroad (Asia in particular) who also enjoy learning foreign languages (but wouldn't necessarily want to work strictly as a translator)? There are numerous subjects I'm interested in, including CS, EE, physics, neuroscience, and materials. I would be happy doing any (or a combination), and the main deciding factor right now is which field presents the best opportunity for me to live in places like Tokyo, Beijing, and Seoul for awhile.
Well I got a minor in Russian with my bachelors in Comp Sci. So far neither have paid off for me, financially. I was only able to use my CS degree for 3.5 years before the economy went tits up. I learned it for three reasons, a friend was into it (i ochen kracivi yizik), I thought it would make a nice resume stuffer, and I like learning foreign languages (Spanish and German in high school, mostly forgotten, Russian of course, a semester of Japanese, and now Scottish Gaelic Am bheil Gàidhlig agad?).
I'll know better next time to choose a major that I'll be happy with than one I think will make me a good salary.
"You'll get nothing, and you'll like it!"
bartending and help desk support go hand in hand.
Now I keep waiting for a Deus ex Machina career salvation. (seriously I did, but that was more by accident, not intent)
"Waste not one watt!" - CZ
Get a plumbing degree. You're gonna be putting up with people's shit either way; you may as well get paid decently for it for a change.
Need Mercedes parts ?
Quantum Finance
- where you can spend your money, and still have it - as long as you don't look at the balance sheet!
but where I'm at, I've been told that they are preferring people with master's and the last few people we've hired have all had master's. I'm being encouraged to pursue one on the company's nickle (which I like) but due to the age of my two very young kids, it's going to be difficult on the family. (Ya, they'd pay for it. Like I should be complaining...)
"Then there's the matter of the MCAT, an eight hour standardized exam from hell testing ..... writing 2 essays."
So, uh, how'd that work out for you?
Need Mercedes parts ?
If you want to be a game developer, then perhaps a short-course in graphic design or a degree in cinematography or physics.
If you want to write buisness software, perhaps a degree in buisness or finance.
Do you want to write embedded software? A degree in Computer or Electrical engineering.
Do you want to write aircraft avionics software? Then a degree in aeronautical engineering.
I work with programmers every day... and they are excellent programmers... the problem is that they have no idea *how* the software they are writing will be used by the end user. Thus they spend many development interations creating what they *think* the user wants, only to have to go back and re-write significant sections of code. Since most of the bugs are introduced at the requirements analysis level (early), you can save your company a mint by really understanding how the software will be used... and that will make you a rare comodity. Good luck!
"It takes considerable knowledge just to realize the extent of your own ignorance." - Thomas Sowell
Has got to be this Degree or equivalent.
Getting another bachelors degree is foolish.
M.S., MBA, JD, whatever.
Even a MFA is better than another bachelors.
Admittedly, successful candidates do get to play with big shiny toys, but I think they make less than doctors. :)
Have I mentioned that Astronomy goes well with CS?
Village idiot in some extremely smart villages.
I believe you have to ponder on what exactly you want to learn and don't base your decisions on what you already know but rather what is that the interest you and the discipline/field/science that triggers your curiosity, your imagination and challenges your spirit.
Computer Science is a vast field and doesn't matter wich direction you choose to further you education, it will certainly complement it.
Don't settle for the cookie-cutters, seem a dream, prove real.
While carrots may go fine with meatloaf, the new disciplines and sciences you may master will give rise to a new you.
- these are not the droids you are looking for -
Law degree. Specialize in intellectual property. Fight the good fight; resist the dark side. I have as friends a number of people with (science/cs) PhD's that became intellectual property attornies. The are all exceptional people and the world is a better place because of them, not worse.
Itis utterly shocking the number of intellectual property "attornies" that don't actually understand the law.
The world needs a few more good IP lawyers.
Need Mercedes parts ?
Two things. First, if you want to become a manager get an MBA or an MIS. These majors deal with the "beurocracy" part of an organization. Unfortuanately there are still organizations think that you need one of these to show that you are not some computer geek that is scared off by human interaction. For that reason an MS in computer science probably won't help you.
Second, if you don't want to become a manager don't waste your money. You would be better off learning things on your own. Some companies pay you more if you hava a Masters degree, but most won't.
As far as going to grad school right after a Bachelor degree that depends on your situation. If you have the technical knowledge do it. If not go get some experience then go back to school and get a Masters
Mind you, I have a CS undergrad and MBA, work for a Fortune 500 financial behemoth, and love nothing more than sitting around cranking out code late at night. Sadly, my job has made that much more of a 'hobby' activity and less a part the day job.
Having said that, I have one person on my team who's has no degree at all but is an absolute genius and another who's working towards his MBA but is more booksmart than tech savvy. Take a guess who I promoted?
Most companies want people who can produce; It doesn't matter if the goal is beating sales targets or delivering a top quality product on time, experience and execution always win out over degrees and booksmarts.
Having a degree helps, but its not first thing most companies look at. We have plenty of Ivy League and PhD's on staff, but most of my senior management have fairly basic educational pedigrees (half MBA/foreign equivalents and the other half have BA/BS paired with some "executive" training courses). Ultimately, you are judged on your past successes or failures. A degree helps you get the interviews and promotions at the higher levels, but avoid just focusing on getting degrees and not what you're going to do with it (like my unemployed, overqualified friend who just got his 4th degree).
In my case it was Engineering, which came first. CS was my backup plan when engineering went through a very dry period in my city for a decade.
Then things got better and I became an engineer with a specialty and a lot of value to other engineers - the guy that could deal with the IT department - rather than an IT guy with an added degree they didn't appreciate.
And that will run through most jobs. You'll find your best employment options are in the field of the OTHER degree, not in IT per se.
CS is just a generally useful addition to almost any other specialty that gives you a special status and opportunities. (In most IT departments, the only one that will be appreciated is accounting, because half of business programming involves it.)
Try Japanese, if you feel like going crazy. Could take a lot of effort to get to where you can sit down with a super famicon game that never got imported... but it's pretty satisfying. Or you could just wait forever or never on a lot of games. Learning Japanese and to read/write it can't be as hard as English, where you still have thousands of words to learn...but there are no rules and hardly any consistancy!!!!!
I actually did go back for a master on top of my BS CS degree. I was very interested in 3D graphics and animiation, and I had a chance to work with some really talented profs, so I took the chance...
I've written animation and motion capture software and helped another company create a game engine from scratch - now I'm creating online games for the web and teaching videogame creation and history. All of my professional experience has been creating software for (or with) artists, and I've really come to appreciate the artistic side of things.
If I was going to go back now I would add an art degree to my roster... my exposure to art and design has helped me push my career to a place I never imagined it would go...
It sounds like you want to do a degree just for the sake of it.
If you had a real need, you certainly wouldn't need to ask which discipline to study! I think you should concentrate on experience. That's all an employer cares about after you have a degree, which is usually the entry level requirement. Don't expect to jump into the most exciting and challenging R&D position after 2 years. Likewise with salary.
I would recommend getting a degree in Cognitive Science. It goes very well with a Comp Sci degree.
You can use it to support a career in human-computer interaction, or artificial intelligence.
Here's the basic rationale:
1. Computers are used by thinking people. CogSci helps understand how thinking people work, and can lead to software with better interaction.
2. Computers can be used to simulate thought. CogSci is all about thought, and can lead to software with better intelligence.
I've met people who pursued Master's degrees because they felt inadequate all their lives. Getting the piece of paper validates them in their own mind.
Some of these people I knew since grade school, they took school much more seriously than I did, yet resented me because I was a slacker who could ace the tests and get the grades. They felt that it wasn't fair that I was placed in gifted classes all throughout school while they worked their ass off to attain mediocrity. I talk mean about them now because of the attitude I got from them, but I was never big on status and really didn't care what grades they got. That didn't define them as a person.
Fast forward to present time, talking to these people and they're still dim. Only they're now dim people with Master's degrees, who talk down to me because I chose not to get a degree. And again, when we were out at the bar and they had one of those trivia games, when I won the match they didn't congratulate me or give me any credit, they simply reassured themselves that they have a degree.
A degree is nice, but it is no replacement for true talent. I'm always willing to apply myself when I need to, I just don't feel the need to brag about it.
I'm not big on status, I'm one of those people who is big on substance. It's more important to "have it" than it is to constantly market yourself and tell people that you have it. Keep life simple, stop trying to impress people.
Yes, Arts. Specifically, some sort of Arts and Business program. Why? Well, you have something to say you can program. But can you communicate well? Can you think with business principles behind your decisions (hence "Arts and Business")? These things make you different than the other candidates. Stick out. It also gives you an alternative if the market goes down.
(This is assuming of course, that the only business program at Universty X is Arts and Business)
My 2 cents.
(By the way, I'm not an employer, don't have my Bachelors yet, and am not in CS, so take this as you will).
I had the same dilemma recently. I chose electrical engineering. I am not interested in electricity, semiconductor devices, etc. -- which is considered to be the core EE stuff. There are a lot of exciting things you can do in EE, where your CS background is an asset. Image processing, recognition and coding are one thing. Digital design (and really understanding the HW/SW interface) is the other -- I have seen weird design decisions done because most people understand one part (SW or HW), but not both. But the best thing is to think what really interests you. In my case I first found what I wanted to do in my thesis, and then tried to figure out where can I do it.
But has anyone considered English? There is, and always has been, a gulf between programmers and the rest of us. Being able to explain your work to someone that is not capable of doing your job should be worth a mint. Not sure if you can sell it but the need is out there.
I don't see you driving the train. Plus, real enginneers wear those cool black and white caps. And pull the chain to make it go "Choo-Choo".
A Master's in Computer Science is seldom required, granted. So, get a degree
in something else. Your BS in CS will go with lots of things. What else
interests you besides programming? Security? Computer science seems to be
a good combination with security, so why not get a degree related to that?
Or is science more your thing? What kind of science? Biology? You could
end up programming bio-science stuff, like DNA sequencing or who knows what.
Physics? There's *lots* of physics stuff to do that involves computer
science -- aircraft design, for instance. Meteorology goes well with
computer programming too. Or maybe science isn't your thing. Maybe you'd
rather get your Master's in Library Science, and get a job writing and
supporting library automation systems... or you could go for math (which,
incidentally, is almost as much fun as programming) and end up writing
actuarial software or something like Mathematic or whatnot, or doing
computer-based pure math research for a university, or just wind up as a
professor. (Being a professor doesn't pay as well as some things, but the
working conditions are okay, and the benefits are decent (e.g., decent
hours, summers off, two weeks for Christmas, a week around Easter time...
and your kids get *serious* tuition discounts if they have to pay at all...)
so it's not altogether a bad way to go.) Or you could sell your soul to
Catbert and get an MBA. There are tons of options. What field do you like?
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
Unless you were trying to say that you received teaching from Computer Sciences itself, you probably meant to say
Computer Science wo oshiete kureta
I was taught Computer Science.
Interestingly enough, the romanization for the Japanese for Computer Science is conpyuutaa saiensu.
While gaining experience in the workforce, also work towards certifications, and keep your skills current. Be strong in programming, databases, and networks. Build and upgrade your own computers. Do not stay in a job any longer than two years if you are not gaining knowledge, the pay is lousy, there is no opportunity for advancement, or you are given a beeper, or equivalent, because you need time for the additional training.
As a soon-to-be BSCS and already-completed Econ. minor, I'd say this is good advice all-around.
:(
I've worked with the programmer ideologues, and as an intern, worked *for* a programmer ideologue, writing C/C++ for a simple GUI app when a higher-level language like Java or Perl or Python would've done the trick just as well and could be implemented much more quickly.
These same programmers -- some of them have been my professors -- say ASM is still important to business. IME talking to an interviewing with several companies, that's only the case in certain specialized areas (e.g. old mainframe or embedded development); the vast majority of other companies I've talked to have literally, on multiple occasions upon reviewing my resume, told me "ASM? Why are they still teaching you ASM?! Nobody uses ASM anymore." (I just shrug and say "well, it was a requirement in the CS dept...) And even more such programmers still stick with C, no matter how prone to security holes it is or how long it takes to write an app in it vs. some higher-level language.
Neither group recognizes the fundamental "time is money" concept by which business lives and dies; it's the "I have a hammer, and everything looks like a nail" philosophy used over and over again among developers...
Of course, there are the monkeys at the opposite end, who would use C#, VB, Java, etc. for everything, even when performance *is* an issue, for which C or C++ would be more appropriate; they too fail to realize that CPU time, although generally becoming exponentially cheaper according to Moore's Law, can still matter in high-volume or heavy-computational scenarios.
The programmer ideologues simply don't recognize a practical "right tool for the job" mindset...
I personally did an Econ. minor because I find Economics interesting (and, along with physics and politics, it's one of the 3 fundamental systems I see as governing everybody's lives), and once thought about majoring in it (or double-majoring in it with CS). Even now I'm still considering going for a master's in Econ. (or IP law, if there's a law school which will take me) and possibly leaving IT (or at least applying my Econ. study to IT somehow), for a variety of reasons...
Unfortunately, I find Econ. more interesting at my school than my CS education because Economics is a much more theoretical study than CS is at my school (and I've discovered that I'm happiest studying both theory *and* its applications (whether it's in CS, physics, econ., etc.), not just its application, as is mostly the case in my CS dept. Basically, I chose the wrong school for CS), making me rather unhappy with my upcoming CS degree.
I'd like to find something that combines CS and Econ., but the closest to that ideal I've found is something along the lines of financial engineering, but I greatly doubt my math abilities would take me very far as a quant (which is why companies in the fin. eng. field tend to hire hard-science majors (physics especially) more than any other)...
Is Capitalism Good for the Poor?
Contrary to popular belief getting a BS in CS you know absolutelly nothing (especially true for the US educational system). Unless you plan on working in you dad's company and getting an exec position right away do not waste your time with MBA. If you are starting in a company as a programmer the best thing to do is learn as much as you can about programming. The only way you can do this is by getting an MS in some decent college where you are actually going to be working on projects and will learn something worth your time. The fact that MS is not required means absolutelly nothing. A lot of things are not required however MS in most cases is equivalent to 2 years industry experience and in 95% of the cases does put you ahead in the job search process. The 5% are companies that are trying to hire someone for as little money as possible and those companies are usually going to make you do the shit work like testing and stuff. So it's really up to you but knowledge and capabilities are always rewarded and if I were you I would go for a MS.
...
You are probably in a Liberal Arts college is you are askig about this so dude : I'm sorry
Don't get me wrong. Education is a good thing, but it really seems like everyone and his sister are enrolling in an MBA program.
Which I think pretty much answers the posters question. If there is a flood of MBAs in the market, someone with an MBA and a BS-CS degree would definitely stand out. Maybe not as much as if there were no MBAs in the market, but an MBA with a CS degree is defintely a benefit.
Of course, you might get stuck doing the MBA stuff versus the CS stuff. Personally, I wouldn't want that. I would recommend getting experience in the "real world" and not worry so much about the extra degrees. I would rather hire someone with the extra experience under their belt.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Is your name Hunting? Will Hunting?
I think you were just lazy for not going to school and you justify your choice for not doing anything academic by making it sound that you were/are smarter than everyone else...Or even "gifted" or "genious" like. And now you want the appritiation of your friends by winning stupid pointless trivia bar games.
Dude, get a degree so you don't feel inferior...With your "talent" you'd probably teach a thing or two to those dim college snobs. In other words, don't waste your talent...There is only so much a trivia game will teach you...
I just finished school, but the only thing that earned me my job was my experience as an intern. Granted, I don't have a lot. But I know many (more than not) with the same degree as myself who are still unemployed.
www.ralford.net
You need to decide what your goal first. If your goal is to find a job by doing an MBA because having a BS degree is not getting you anywhere then forget it. I have a BSEE and now after 7 years of work experience I am doing an MBA in Marketing. Why? Because, I have a goal to start my own business with some good ideas I have. I know in order to do this I need to have some skills other than just technical know how of my ideas. I need to know how to become an entreprenuer, do some accounting, Management, and above of all learn all the marketing tricks. I have a need for the MBA degree.
So need is the main thing here. You need to identify your need. Because one thing I know for sure, an MBA degreee right after getting a BS degree is not a good choice. Get some real work experience then go for a higher degree.
If you want to manage (even project management) ;)
get an MBA
If you want to work using computers to study biology:
get an MS in bio
If you want to work doing physics simulations:
get a physics degree
If you want to work programming, designing programs, or doing IT
get a job.
A large number of people in the US have a new religion. They may not know it though. A majority of
church attendees have little idea of the tenents of their faith. I guess they make it up as they go along.
"Old line" religions do better, ie catholics, CofE etc....
The're to young to care about humongus paragraphs.
Cliff,
What do you feel really passionate about? If you are unemployed right now and are looking to get another degree just to get a job then listen to people's opinions here. But if you are paying the bills okay, then spend your time getting your degree in something that really excites you. The reason is that you have a much better chance at being successful at something you LIKE doing. The majority of people out there HATE their jobs. Many of them got into their fields because it was the POPULAR degree/training thing at one time (but times do change). Back in the 80's it the hot degree was EE. LOTS and LOTS of people got EE degrees because all the experts thought there were unlimited jobs in EE. Most wouldn't have spent the time in all the difficult classes if it paid what a History Degree paid. The result: Lots of unhappy Engineers out there that do the damnest to get into management (to get away from EE) and become even worse managers....
If you like Electronics, then go for EE
If you wanna be a boss, then go for and MBA-like thing
If you are totally passionate about Greek Vase painting, then get a degree in Art History and try to tie it to CS somehow...
Listen to yourself, not the "experts". Given enough time, they are always wrong....
GSG
After a hectic study life, I'd get me a nice big juicy woman, have some kids, get a few leases on a couple of cars, mortgage a house or two (rent the other one out), cruise around the world enough times so that you can hurl overboard without getting your tux messy, have tea with Sir Richard Branson and Steve Fawcett on a balloon over the Himalayas (maybe throw U2 on there for some afternoon entertainment), negotiate some peace talks with North Korea, South Korea, China, Japan, and the US, and why not round things off with breakfast at Milliways. Oh yeah, don't forget to throw "get a job" somewhere in there. It doesn't matter where. Most people get a few along the way.
Actually, an excellent idea would be to get your Poli Sci degree, and then you could work for an organization lobbying Congress on technological issues.
Get a copy of the yellow pages.... find an electrician,,,,moonlight on the weekends as an apprentice.....get a journeyman's license, then a masters license. with the CS and electrical license you can retire when your 55.
Problem is people are marketing themselves with certifications, degrees are just a more impressive certification. Colleges are full of people wanting job skills only, and they are turning slowly into trade schools.
College is not for everyone. Trade school is acceptable. Many jobs don't require intensive training. Learning on the job suites many areas as well or better than schooling.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
How about another BS in Biomedical Engineering?
In another country, maybe?
There is a place for CPA's that knows about IT.
Someone has to bridge the gap (and there is a gap).
One danger I found was that the IT people thought you were an acct, and the acct. people thought you were wierd. The mangement, however would listen to you if you knew what you were talking about. You usually did because you could see both sides.
IF you don't know what your talking about, however, keep your mouth shut. (almost always good advice).
baomike,CPA retired.
Education is great but as an employer I like to see real world experience and an OS project is one place you can cut your teeth. Think about it -- it's perfect: you get to enhance you knowledge about a particular technology and you can point to it and say "I did that" in an interview. Plus, I can't tell you how often I ask for code samples and get pathetic attempts in return. I'm much more impressed when someone can point me to a cvs server or a source build with a tight build script.
Cheers.
Well, that's what I'm doing anyways. If you're going to pair a degree, I'd suggest doing something completely unrelated that really engages you. Sure, it takes a significant amount of time. However, with all the job applicants who claim to have "unique insight" due to a business course, you'll actually have something that most others don't.
Such a degree exposes you to different ways to look at the world, and a whole different type of people. Also, it helps you make your way into a niche market. Further, if you ever burn out on CS, you have something else to turn to.
-- I prefer the term "karma escort."
uh, try mathematics.
computer sciences is great you can combine it with one of several science degrees. chem, biochem, bio, physical chem, geology, physics, math The point is that computers are used for everything in science these days. Whatever you like, there is a use for a computer scientist. also, law schools are recruiting CS majors... there's a lot of need for technically literate lawyers these days. an MBA is a great addition to any degree. The science of business is the science of making money. If you've got CS talents, an MBA will teach you how to capitalize on it. Stay out of liberal arts... fine arts... not alot of extra opportunities with a CS / Piano education. You can also do many corporate training programs. Try to find programs that aren't just giveaways. The Oracle program is a good example, not everyone passes, thus it is more valuable. Of course, you could just get a job without any further education. CS is a good door into almost anything these days. tmaxwellREMEVETHEATcsTHAD0TutexasAD0Tedu
What better course of study to accent your ability to deal with software than another course of study that teaches you just exactly *HOW* all those electrons make the magic happen? I generally advise students to begin with a BSEE and then get a Master's in CS but it works the other way around, too. The logic is inescapable: your job prospects are enhanced greatly by the BSEE and your prospects as an engineer are enhanced by your ability to program. So many CS majors are clueless about the hardware; I've had them demand that I teach them exactly why, for instance, they cannot control their dorm room's lights with the parallel port on their desktop. After all, the programming for such a task is trivial! The combination of software and hardware is a world-beater.
No one ever had to evacuate a city because the solar panels broke!
Take your pick of a (human) language which is not Western European. How many unemployed engineers are there who can program better than you? Lots. How many unemployed engineers are there that can program better than you... and know enough of a foreign language to code programs which either target that population or use assumptions of that language? Not very many, at all. Besides the obvious government agencies (there is a reason I picked those five languages -- you will seriously by hired the same day your security check passes if you combine CS with any of the five), natural language research, localization/internationalization (something the OSS community could really, really use at the moment by the way), etc, etc, etc.
Help poke pirates in the eyepatch, arr.
I am hopefully completing my M.Sc. in CS this semester, after 5 years of working and studying at the same time. I have been (I think) successful at work - I'm right now on my way to my third job as a consultant//Project Manager, traveling all over the world working with big companies.
This will be the first time since I got into kindergarden that I wouldn't be studying. I enjoy learning new things, so I started thinking today of what else I could dig my teeth into. I've been considering some type of social science, either psicology or sociology, since I've always been intriged about human behavior and interaction. Or, there's the requisite MBA. Or, I've always wanted to get a degree in math.
I think the best bet for my career would be to go with the MBA. But I think I'm going to end up on psicology... maybe it'll help me, maybe it'll not, but it is something I've always wanted to know about.
-.
First off, I know nothing about how HR or management or other kinds of suits want. I'm also very underemployed at the moment myself. My advice would be to get a degree in something else entirely. Like history or art. I'm not sure whether a bachelor's or master's would be better. But getting a degree (or more importantly, an education) in a completely unrelated field might make you a better programmer. Even if that's not true, then at least you're learning something. In the long run, that might be a better thing than worrying about degrees. What degrees you have and who you know will get you a job, but what you actually know will let you keep one. Or at least that's what somebody said - I'm still stuck at the first one. Just go out and pick a field you like, but never had the chance to work on because you were too busy cramming for the calculus final or whatever.
Not required, no. But isn't the idea to go above and beyond the bare minimum?
Make no mistake, it might not be required, but it sure is looked upon in very favorable light!
Passive Aggressive.
Almost had to stab that fucker today after telling him the fifth time that the middle finger isn't for pointing or enumerating, it is for expressing 'fuck you'. He just likes waving that middle finger around
That's the funniest shit I've read all day.
Get a foreign language degree in Hindi, because that's where all the comp sci jobs are moving to.
--
BMO
You're much better off than those guys.
Besides, it's WAY premature for you to be evaulating whether Math + CS + Minor(Stat) was worthwhile or not. You're evaluating it on the basis of early nibbles for summer internship opportunities? Take the long view and relax.
I was thinking strongly of doing something like this, but it was my understanding that this career was already being outsourced to places like India. Is that your experience?
After what happened to my C.S. career, I refuse to waste my time going back to school to get a degree that'll get outsourced.
"Once we've identified and embraced our sickness, we'll have strength...and that's when we get dangerous." - John Waters
Figure it out yourself. That's what living life is all about. Figure out what YOU want to do with YOUR life and get educated in that field (or combination of fields). Stop asking other people what YOU should do.
was a programmer, but wanted to work for myself. Did an MBA, started business, lost a LOT of money and am now un-employable. Had to work long and hard to get going again. I love it and would recommend it to any one and everyone.
I get to decide what to do - so no accounting software, yes to network security.
A CS degree is a tool.
Find an area outside of CS that's an interest to you and go after it. Hard sciences always need good CS skills these days.
MS degree's pay off in Engineering, Business (not MBA generic - try economics for example) and other harder sciences. It doesn't pay off in a lot of other areas.
I personally have to disagree with your subject. When I see a woman, I prefer to focus on her cleavage and exposed breasts rather than on the bra that covers them. I'm sure that there are some nice-looking bras out there, but really -- if that's your thing -- I'd recommend hanging out at the department store instead, where people are less likely to notice your stare.
Hindi
I was just trying to see what people think about what I am doing. I am 20 years old and in a direct Ph.D program in Computer Engineering right after I got a B.S in Math. I am also pursuing an online M.B.A. in parallel with the Ph.D and hope to be done with all by 22. I have some experience, three summer internships, and 2 years in I.T. before college. I think it's a good idea what I'm doing but would someone hire me? I will be overqualified for my first job afterwards, but is that a bad thing? I mean with a few years of experience, I should be able to move up very quickly Keith
The only reason an EE is harder to get is because EE's have been more successful in regulating the industry--read: getting government to weed out the competition.
I got my CS from an engineering school--guess where all the engineers came for tutors? (Hint: it wasn't their department)
Depending on the job you want, EE or CpE is probably a good way to go. Even if you're going to be just a programmer for hte rest of your life, the math skills will come in handy and the digital design courses will help you understand a lot about how computers actually work. I was a t.a. for a digital design class for two years and could pick out the CS kids from the EEs right away. They could both program the FPGAs but only the EEs understood what they were doing. Practical knowledge will make you more attractive than just theory.
Also, a master's degree never hurts - a friend and I both interviewed at the same company last month (he's finishing his BS and I'm finishing my MS) and my offer for (approximately) the same job was $18k more than his. 2 years more = PROFIT!
"Physics is to math what sex is to masturbation." - Richard Feynman
You want to know what degree is best to pair with a BSCS degree to advance your career. But you didn't tell us what kind of career you want to have or even what you've done with yourself so far! Do you have any professional experience? Are you a programmer? System admin? Technical writing? Something else entirely? Do you like what you are doing? Some people become programmers and decide after 2 years that they hate it and think it's boring. (These people should probably not get an MSCS.)
Basically, if you don't have any clear destination to work towards, how can anyone advise you how to get there? If you want to look at it in mathematical terms, you just asked a bunch of people to help you optimize a function without telling them what function it is you want to optimize!
I have had a professional programming job since i was 17, and I am now 22. I went to school full time for 3 years (4 classes a semester) while working full time, and my grades suffered for it.
The reason they suffered is because in the long run, I could see that experience was the best thing personally for me to grow in the field. Granted my grades also suffered because i did not focus 100% of my energy on my education. I ended up dropping out of school for a job that pays more than what many average CS majors start off at - just based on experience and examples of my work alone. Though it may not be the best long term solution, right now i feel im young and can save some money and gain experience first before rushing into more school.
I've seen to many computer science majors come out being taught how to code in school, but either 1. have a lack of enthusiasm once they are out of school and have not a clue how the real world operates, but rather how a professor said it should be done every time. or 2. Completely bullshitted their way through college to get a CS degree only to not have any real direction to what they want to do with their career (web page design with a computer science degree), and really can't apply any code with their own train of thought..
Not being in school makes me take more initiative in the self learning process, as I can do things for fun, not be graded on them, and challenge myself without being pressured.
This is easy -- get a degree in some subject matter that interests you. Accounting, chemistry, anything. Or learn to fly and get a job at air traffic control -- pay is great, hours are good, retire in 20 years.
I have a BSc comp sci and a degree in electronics. Why? Because I wanted to do more cool stuff. I wasn't interested in any future career opportunities. If you want to do another degree don't do for someone else's benefit - do it to pursue your own interests and passions.
hands down: electrical engineering.
If you like CS, if you like using your mind in that way, get a second BS (or BA) in Math. If I could climb in the wayback machine and do things over again, I'd get a dual degree in CS and Math.
For the money? God knows. If you go with a trend, by the time you're done, in two or three years, or even a year, you'll be fighting over limited jobs with all the other followers. If you want to go into another field, or expand your employment opportunities, get an engineering degree.
It's nice to have advice. Do the right thing and decide for yourself.
HOW did this get modded interesting? Honestly, did any of the guys who modded parent up actually understand what this guy is saying? Because no natural-language processing class I ever took has prepared me for parsing this sentence:
You sir, have never experienced the joy of using not one, but two international tax treaties, to make income from a foreign assignment by a non-U.S. citizen that would otherwise not be taxable in the U.S. intentionally so taxable (and, *poof*, completely offset by foreign tax credits, ta da!), so the eligible moving expenses associated with the assignment, but paid in the following year, when a U.S. tax resident, are deductable against U.S. income in that following year.
The fact that this got modded +5 Interesting is like something from Dilbert. And the lesson is: if you use enough complicated words, people won't figure out that you're not making any sense.
Learn to be a plumber, electrician, builder or gardener. No seriously - these people charge more per hour than most programmers dare aspire to, and its a physically active job. Plus, there's little reason to believe that the need for that kind of people will ever go away. A safe bet, in my opinion.
Mathematics or Mathematical Physics. Maths for the logic and MP so you can get a job with the weather service.
Get an appropriate degree in ESL instruction and use that with your techie knowledge to teach English to the Indians techies that all the jobs are being outsourced to...
...you should look at increasing your marketability. Whenever you decide to join the industry, whatever you do for the first two years or so will decide the career you settle into for the most part.
So think VERY hard. What would you really want to do every day? It comes down to job satisfaction. If you can get that, then being good at your job comes naturally and so does increasing your marketability, because your passion for what you do will show - you won't need to fake it.
So I turn it back to you - what career do you want? Pick one that you're perfectly fine doing for the rest of your life - sure, you'll rise, but the field, the area of application and the concepts used probably won't change that much.
If you love messing with Word documents, presentations, spreadsheets, stuff like that, I'd say somewhere around an MBA/Marketing will suit you.
If you love analysis, statistics, modeling, maybe something along the lines of DSP/Mathematics...
I hope you get what I'm trying to say. Ten years into your career, you should be able to say you chose it because you love doing your job and not because of a comment on Slashdot that was rated 5.
Find a job you like and you will never work a day in your life.
Proficency in a foriegn language is rapidly growing in importance in every job that is worth your time. Japanese is a big money language and so is Spanish and Chinese. Pick one and learn it. It will pay you dividends long after your CompSci degree dies of old age five years from now.
When I was 18 I studied CS and worked as software developer. Salary was so good that I soon lost my interest in getting a degree, but I got hell lot of experience (I guess much more than I would ever learn at university).
Now I'm 28, I (still) study management / organization science. It's great. It's so close to everything information science is all about.
I'd say being software developer gives me better insight in processes in general - and that makes me a better manager. On the other hand, understanding economics, organization and other facts make me a better software developer.
Oh yes, and did I mention it... I started my own business this year. Perfect!
Write a Masters on the IT politics that governs 500 million Europeans and then become the first EU policymaker who knows whats he's doing when he proposes legislation: http://www.coleurope.be
The College of Europe is the leading postgraduate institution for EU policymakers - grants for attending the College are available from the various Foreign Ministries which fund the College.
maybe don't think about it in terms of what will have more 'market' value... but what do you really care about, that should decide where you should go in the future...
My situation was slightly different, I'd obtained a BSc in Biochemistry, but decided I'd loathe a career in that industry.
I took a 1 year MRes in bioinformatics, the intention being that I'd end up with a piece of paper saying I could use a computer and it didn't look like I'd wasted my time doing my degree.
What I learnt:
Do something different for your next degree. The world is full of people who have a CS degree and then an MBA *yawn*. Choose a field you're interested in working in and find an M*** that is appropriate. CS can be applied to all manner of fields - your skills will be wanted and if you remain straight CS then you'll end up as a java monkey in come corporate bodyshop. This is not good. Java monkey's are easy replaced and always tricky to explain why you're special/better than the others.
My MRes was basically a mini phd with tutorials. I was chose a topic at the start of the year and at the end I handed in a paper. First time I'd ever had to force myself to work, find people in different departments to provide information, convince people to help me. Helped me pick up all the soft skills you need in the workplace dealing with the evil within and without (emplyers/clients).
Get a degree in Hindi. That way when your job moves you can follow it.
"Which degree(s) do YOU think will go well with a Computer Science Bachelors?"
I don't know, but an English degree would go a long way toward helping you avoid those random apostrophes.
In Finland, B.Sc is nothing, you have to be atleast M.Sc. to be anything. Bachlelor is not even considered a degree here. My chinese wife is M.Sc in computer science and also masters degree in business with excellent grades.
Still it war very hard to get a job in finland, and have to worry about layoffs every single day. Her first jobs in finland were to be a waitress in bar and dishwasher. It doesn't matter if you're Ph.D here, if employer finds out you're foreigner most of them don't want you even to interview. And IT jobs are really under the rock now. So at that education level your income here is about $3000 where you pay about 30% income tax (plus everything has %22 VAT label on it). I guess you US ppl laugh at this?
So go for it. B.Sc is nothing, you're nobody with millions of other bachelor nobodys in global market.
Remember, in China there comes nearly 5 million post-graduate students every year. They are competing from your job also in global market. And they ask salary of 2000 rmb($200) in month. Be ready to compete with that.
Big amount of computer jobs will get out of US in frothcoming years. Silicon valley is running on H1B guys from India and China - cause US universities are high level, put their throughput is poor (not enough ppl to meet industry demand and often with too high pricetag). Now when Gov now is cutting the amount of visa's, outsourcing to asia comes even more attractive option.
If you want to be doing IT job in by next 20 years, be also ready to relocate in China or India.
That sounds as boring as hell, go with the Physics/Engineering.
... the Engineer
AC
Not long after i had entered the Univeristy, I had a relevation while i was trying to classify your species.
It was when I looked at the prospectus of our two courses and found that CS is actually a subset of EE.
I found that... we first designed anntennas, CPU's, motors and machines but then when we learnt the programming skills, it was no longer your world but rather OURS!
Get a law degree and learn all you can about intellectual property and patents so you can change the system for the better! :-)
www.concord.kaplan.edu
Statistics is a good one, for a math specialty, but like others have said: It is really up to what you want to do. Biotech, finance ... others give you some extra strengths.
But careful about MBA's. In general don't waste your time and money unless you have the wherewithall to go to a top-notch program. Heavy-duty finance and accounting are useful subjects for employers. Don't bother with schools that turn out Wal-Mart trainees and burger-joint managers. Management psychology and communications are bogus subjects.
wow. you must have no life during all those studies. :( )
I've got the same qualifications, but I'm 26. Job-wise you won't have a problem if you don't mind selling your soul to the likes of Banc of America (which is what I've done
More important to your marketablility than additional education, would be more work experience.
I don't think you know what you're talking about. It depends on where you go to school - CS, at a shitty school, is probably incredibly easy. Where I went to school, a CS degree was one of the hardest (though not as hard as physics, which was my major, but I took a bunch of the CS classes and I saw them dropping that major like flies).
How about a degree in swimming. That is, if you haven't realized that you could have saved tons of money by pressing "F1" instead of paying for a CS degree; paying more money for an equally useless Swimming degree is right up your alley.
As others have noted: Another degree isn't going to help you if you don't know what you want to do. Get some experience in industry, in retail, in anything but academia. Learn about your people skills; this will lead you to or away from business analysis. Are you a coder with mad skillz, a designer with a user-friendly touch, a communications hacker with mystic diagnostic ability? So, you try a few things and they don't work; just keep trying. A couple of years doing that is better than spending them in class. My 2 cents.
Back, demented Ogrons.
forget the degree get experience. i've always said, gettting a 4 year degree will just put you 4 years behind the technology curve.
Ivy League Schools:
Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Columbia, Dartmouth, U. of Pennsylvania (NOT Penn State), Cornell, and Brown
NOT Ivy League Schools:
NYU, USC, Notre Dame, Penn State
Master of Science in Electrical Engineering. EE is still highly sought after and a lot of schools will accept a CS degree to cover 99% of the requirements to enter a masters program. I am currently in school for my MSEE...
in thir world countries, you're lucky if you can even get a job in the first place.
--- widget evolution: enhanced, plus, super, ultra, extreme, exxxtreme, ultra-extreme,
Note: I have no degrees so all I'm offering is personal opinion.
I've always heard, from most of the people I've worked with who actually had the degree, that a BS in Computer Science is just that, BS. From this I formed my opinion that CS is a little to general, although I'm sure you learned a lot of cool stuff I don't know.
I know a couple of people who have a BS in CS with AI specialization, which personally sounds a lot more interesting. Mostly because they also did some of Psychology and some Electrical Engineering.
If I ever decided to get a degree I'd probably go for something like Mathematics. (Mostly so I wouldn't have to muddle through the real complex mathematical parts of cryptography, having to look up information every two sentences.) And because I think pure math is kinda cute. (I'm a geek.)
Or maybe Electronic Engineering, which will probably help me to figure out what I'm consistantly doing wrong with my designs. (They always work though.)
What do I think you should do?
Hmm, what do you like besides from Computers, see if you can't get a degree in that. I know plenty of people who did things like Botany, Languages, History or something else who have great jobs in the computer industry.
Do you want to learn everything from the Technical niche? Or do you aspire to something more like Homo Universalis?
'I am become Shiva, destroyer of worlds'
Je suis d'accord, bestuderen van taal is een goed idee, e fá-lo-á valioso.
:-)
I'm fluent in several languages, French, Dutch, and Portuguese, and can follow business meetings in Swedish, Italian, German and Spanish. I have a basic amount of Gaelic and Russian, enough to get a beer or my face slapped. I can read newspapers in about a dozen other languages and grok some basic understanding from the articles (although it helps if there are pictures
One of the nice things about being an anglophone in computers/telecoms is the natural advantage you have when dealing with non-anglophones. You don't have to make an extra effort to translate or understand the material, its already in your language. If you are able to *fluently* communicate in a few other languages, enough that the natives don't have to drop into English for you, then you have a huge value to many employers in this world.
I am constantly running into Europeans who really know their stuff, but their English is limited to being able to read technical manuals or websites. They can deal effectively with most of their job, but when they have to communicate in English, either written or spoken, they just can't hack it. So employers are always looking for truely multi-lingual talent. When a Portuguese telecoms wants to make a deal with an Estonian telecoms, English is the only way to communicate.
There is another positive side to learning linguistics and a couple of foreign languages. If your field of CompSci is Natural Language Processing, or compiler/parser design, then you will have an extra level of insight.
The down side is that there are no real multi-lingual jobs in the US. If you are in the US (or UK or down-under) then english is the only language and your linguistics degree is pretty useless. But if the current political climate has you looking to spend a few years abroad until after the next election or three, then learning languages is an excellent choice for adding value to your current skill set.
the AC
Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
Learning more is one thing but - learn more about what? Do you like the mathematics side? The puzzle solving side? The graphical user interface side? developing new technology? making useful things? The only reason for continuing your education is if you think computer science is too broad - which it is. What do you aim to do in the future? This will tell you what to concentrate your masters studies in. Read some relevant papers and talk to people who are successful in fields you are interested in - especially people from other universities and other disciplines - to get their views before deciding if this is who you want to be working with for the REST OF YOUR LIFE.
Deborah MacPherson Projects Director,Accuracy&Aesthetics On a Quest for Original Context
The company I work for has just hired another fresh-out-if-college C programmer with no experience.
.exe's that read logfiles - I guess they don't teach you how to write daemons or use stdin in CS?
We already have one, he can only write basic
So the idiots went and hired another one. She can't even install Linux on her PC, I guess she's been too sheltered by academia and has no real interest in computers other than to make money (did I mention that they're both from India?)
So me (with no formal computing training, all self-taught, with a BA in Business) and my co-Developer/Sysadmin (who quit today, and didn't even go to college) are the ones doing all the work, for less money....
#include <sig.h>
I will make one comment to the original question. If you use any of the suggestions of what you should get, then you are doing yourself a disservice. Before you decide on what to get, you should ask yourself what you plan to do and what industry you plan to work in. For instance if you were developing accounting software and side degree in accounting would benefit you greatly. Just getting a second degree without thinking how you will apply it to your job and career will most likely end up being a waste of your time.
In addition to various people making suggestions here, can we take some of the better / more popular ones from this comment thread and make a /. poll on the front page?
/. readers at large think of the answers presented here. (Many people don't bother to read the comments...)
While unscientific, you'd get some kind of gauge of what
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Geographical Information Science - using computers for everything from cartography, archaeology, navigation, biology, geology, urban planning, disaster management, environmental science..... application areas that the IT industry normally doesnt expose the average geek to ! you probably won't learn much at programming but the exposure is great.
He said he would prefer the other type.
If you are in a burning building, which fireman would you like:
Fireman a: in it for the paycheck, has 2 year old daughter, doesn't want to risk himself.
Fireman b: wants to save people, will risk his own life to save others, less ties.
If you are the head of a software team, would you prefer a person who will sacrifice more of less?
If you are Walmart would you prefer those who work like asses [think mule] or those who sit on thier asses?
Just because you want to wave you flag, you have to see that you are on the other side of the equation, hence you comment is a little redundant in that respect (attacking someone for having an opposite opinion, when they are on the opposite side really).
Work to live, don't live to work, yes, very deep, you are my socialist hero. I actually like my job I am lucky, but my life is also very rich, I always have to balance my job and life, I certainly go early and finish early when I can, and time is always an issue.
If I have nothing planned i am not going to sit home and watch tv though, i'd much rather fine tune that routing algorithm or fix that rather narking memory leak [tiny] that is hidden really deep in some code, and puzzles me.
You also forget that work is life. Retirment can get dull, because our minds like to work. Some people paint as a hobby, others do it as a job, I ski for fun, others are instructors. I guess being a ski instructor must be fun, but it must also grate on you a bit at times, like any job.
who enjoys working overtime...because he is a miserable git I htought you said he enjoys working overtime?
Yes here is another saying you can run up the flagpole and see which way it blows: All work and no play makes johnny pull out a rifle and pick people off one by one from a clock tower. Or something like that.
Don't just shoot down another side with yotu argument without giving some credit for the fact that THEY ARE ACTUALLY RIGHT. Your views are not mutually exclusive it is possible for the boss to want you to work to death, and for you to want ot be a hip and cool guy and tell everyone how good you life is... JUST because these two ideals ARE mutually exclusive, the condition whjere two people can hold each of them is 100% plausible, and actually the norm.
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