Windows XP Has Arrived

Queuing... by swordboy · 2001-10-25 01:37 · Score: 2, Funny

WINDOWS MEDIA PLAYER:<BR><BR> QUEUE: REM - ITS THE END OF THE WORLD AS WE KNOW IT.WMA<BR><BR> Sigh...

--

Life is the leading cause of death in America.

Re:Queuing... by kbeast · 2001-10-25 01:45 · Score: 1

guess you missed the punchline on that one..

.kb

--
Two Wrongs Don't Make A Right-- But They Make Me Feel A Whole Lot Better
Re:Queuing... by barneyfoo · 2001-10-25 01:52 · Score: 1

ARgh. I was making a point, not being a mindless joke laugher that you find at all the yuppie parties. Some people actually have an different point of view and dont feel like being herded into a laughter state by a mediocre joke.
Re:Queuing... by NightRain · 2001-10-25 01:57 · Score: 1

Herded in to laughter? What on Earth does that mean? It's not like he forced you to find the joke funny...
Re:Queuing... by barneyfoo · 2001-10-25 01:59 · Score: 1

Most people laugh at jokes because they feel they are supposed to.

Being herded does not have to be a physical act of being forced to do something. it can merely be a casual side-effect of the trivial way most people choose to lead their lives.
Re:Queuing... by NightRain · 2001-10-25 02:12 · Score: 1

If you insist. Personally, if I don't find something funnny I just don't laugh. I think you're seeing a little too much in to it if you think people laugh because they're 'supposed to'
Re:Queuing... by barneyfoo · 2001-10-25 02:15 · Score: 1

I agree, but Kbeast there was implying I was somehow at fault for not "getting the joke".. I think that's a little fascistic, dont you?
Re:Queuing... by NickV · 2001-10-25 03:24 · Score: 2

REM sucks d-ck. listen to something a little more meaningful. Especially REM in wma format. What complete corperate sellouts. I doubt they even give a f-ck that cd's cost $17 now. REM's soul has officially been reaped.

You're kidding, right? You do remember that in 1995, REM refused to sell their "It's the End of the World" to Microsoft, and MS offered ALOT of money. The Rolling Stones, however...
Re:Queuing... by Ether · 2001-10-25 03:50 · Score: 1

FWIW, MS's marketing team tried to get REM's "It's the End of the World As We Know it (And I feel fine)" for the Win95 launch. REM doesn't license it's songs for commercials, so instead they went to the Rolling Stones, and asked them how much they'd want to use "Start Me Up"- RS threw out a number that they thought was ridiculous and completely unlikely: $10 million. They got it.

--
--I hate people when they're not polite -"Psycho Killer", Talking Heads
Re:Queuing... by kbeast · 2001-10-25 05:36 · Score: 1

I enjoy the mindless joke laughter me and my yuppie friends make at yuppie parties all the time. I love to fake laugh, too.

Your point of view is fine, its just way off the mark, to the point where your like one of those fools at my yuppie parties who jumps in the middle of a conversation about beer and you bring up cats. You might as well have started a new post, Ask Slashdot: what music do you listen to when you run windows xp?

.kb

--
Two Wrongs Don't Make A Right-- But They Make Me Feel A Whole Lot Better
Re:Queuing... by Prior+Restraint · 2001-10-25 06:17 · Score: 1

MS's marketing team tried to get REM's "It's the End of the World As We Know it (And I feel fine)" for the Win95 launch. REM doesn't license it's songs for commercials,...

Odd thing is, it was a just a year or so later that the same song was used to advertise "Independence Day".
Re:Queuing... by MrBogus · 2001-10-25 07:52 · Score: 1

Why would "It's the End of the World As We Know it (And I feel fine)" be a better choice than "START Me up"? Sounds like an urban legend devised by apocolyptic MS haters.

(The Win95 marketing campaign consisted of lots of TV commercials and billboards featuring the "Start" button.)

--

When I hear the word 'innovation', I reach for my pistol.
Re:Queuing... by Ether · 2001-10-25 08:05 · Score: 1

Right, but it was used in the movie, so it was being taken from the soundtrack, rather than being used to promote a product. (Yeah, you can argue that movies are product, etc.)

IBM/Lotus had a commercial that used "Superman", which REM did, but REM didn't write it, so another artist could cover it.

Other than that, I don't know of any REM being used to sell products. OTOH, IANARE (REM Expert).

--
--I hate people when they're not polite -"Psycho Killer", Talking Heads
Re:Queuing... by wljones · 2001-10-25 09:08 · Score: 1

XP is the end of whose world? I greeted the original announcement of Windoze eXPired with one hand clapping. Seeing that the price is more than I paid for my computer, and they want yet another memory/cpu upgrade, the hand is crippled. When held vertically, only one finger remans erect. My open source boxed set serves me cheaply and well.
Re:Queuing... by ShavenYak · 2001-10-25 09:18 · Score: 1

Did this Grant guy steal his designs from a previous company (anyone remember CP/M)?

Is he currently buying up roads and putting up barriers to keep competing cars off?

Do his cars require upgrades every year, and crash two or three times a week?

There are plenty of reasons to dislike Microsoft other than that they are successful.

--

Hey kids, there's only 5 days left 'til Yak Shaving Day!
Re:Queuing... by freakonaleash881 · 2001-10-25 10:02 · Score: 1

Why would "It's the End of the World As We Know it (And I feel fine)" be a better choice than "START Me up"? Sounds like an urban legend devised by apocolyptic MS haters.
It isn't. I remeber hearing it caused a minor fuss at Microsoft before 95 came out, as in "We want this song, we'll pay big money for it!" REM didn't play ball. The Stones did (for an insane amount of money).

--

Elen sila lumenn' omentielvo...a star shines on the hour of our meeting
Re:Queuing... by twodogs · 2001-10-25 12:21 · Score: 1

Well put, saw a demo on The Screensavers last night with a digital camera, it was to be plugged in and work right away, well after XP crashed (gee that's something new) if finally worked
Re:Queuing... by odaiwai · 2001-10-25 13:45 · Score: 1

You do wonder if they listen to the songs they want to use. 'Start me up' has the line 'You make a grown man cry' which is amazingly appropriate for Win95.

'End of the World' has:
'listen to yourself churn' - Not enough RAM
'dummy serve your own needs' - very simple wwebserving, obviously.
'off me solutions, offer me alternatives and I decline' - what MS want their customers to do.
'a tourmament, a tournament, a tournament of lies' - that'd be the press campaign.

dave
Re:Queuing... by tolldog · 2001-10-25 16:20 · Score: 2

Little known fact is the "Start" button was going to say "End of the World".

They had to change it to fit with the song.

--
-I just work here... how am I supposed to know?
Re:Queuing... by CrackWilding · 2001-10-26 06:18 · Score: 1

Now I understand the LINUX image problem in the "corperate" world :(
Yeah, especially compared to those vast legions of sophistcated, mature Windows users.

--
Visit sunny Knowumsayin.com, home of the pork shirt.

In answer to your question by yobbo · 2001-10-25 01:38 · Score: 1, Interesting

The launch doesn't affect anyone because half the population has already been using it for freakin months

Re:In answer to your question by InfinityWpi · 2001-10-25 03:51 · Score: 2

Hell, I've been supporting it for a couple months now. Should use that to get a raise... "You know how much XP experience is worth to contractors right now?"

Guerrilla(sp?) marketing by dmorin · 2001-10-25 01:39 · Score: 3, Interesting

Know what really, truly scares me about XP? This morning on the Howard Stern show he gave time to 3 callers (well, 2 actually because he got bored) to blatantly do a commercial. And when I changed the channel, another morning talk station was talking about it too! I mean, the hell?! Since when does the release of a new piece of software from the world's biggest software company suddenly mean everybody has to start plugging it?

On a good note, the first guy was so boring (talking about why XP is cool because it's on a 32bit kernel, not a 16bit one on top of DOS like Win98/ME) that Howard and crew got very bored. So he gave the second guy a chance, who pointed out the bit about having to register every machine, etc... to which Howard summed up "So let's all get together and not buy this thing." And that was the end of that. Gotta wonder if that third guy was gonna be pro or against Microsoft.

--
www.HearMySoulSpeak.com

Re:Guerrilla(sp?) marketing by Ivan+Raikov · 2001-10-25 01:49 · Score: 1

On a good note, the first guy was so boring (talking about why XP is cool because it's on a 32bit kernel, not a 16bit one on top of DOS like Win98/ME)

Curiously enough, Microsoft Chicago (circa 1993), which later became Windows 95, was supposed to be true 32-bit (ha!). And there are still people who buy Microsoft propaganda today. I suppose George Orwell was right -- ignorance is power.

--
Bush Lies Watch
Re:Guerrilla(sp?) marketing by Nick's+Name · 2001-10-25 01:51 · Score: 1

Stern also said that he didn't care if Microsoft took over every computer in the world just as long as everything was the same. It makes me wonder if he knew what he was talking about. Let's remove everyone's choice and it'll be just fine? Give me a break.
Re:Guerrilla(sp?) marketing by louissypher · 2001-10-25 02:01 · Score: 1

No, he said that he wouldn't mind if it was on every computer as long as it "just worked". Which isn't ignorant, but something we would all like in an OS.

--
www.bleepyou.com
Re:Guerrilla(sp?) marketing by cavemanf16 · 2001-10-25 02:53 · Score: 2

I heard a commercial on the radio on the way into work about XP too. It was even somewhat personalized to businesses that operate in the Columbus, OH area as they made sure to mention when traffic sucks on our outerbelt, that "Windows XP makes life easier because I can log into my work computer from home!" They threw in a bunch of other new 'features' to try to convince people why it's a Good Thing to pay more money than what a CPU costs for an OS designed to keep MS' revenue stream high.
Too bad they completely failed to mention to the consumer that you have to give up your personal info to an untested, probably easily crackable (given their track record) database system designed to keep you paying out the nose for MS products as long as possible in a sorry attempt to make the internet 'easier to use'. What a fallacy that is anyways because I have no problem buying things online or filtering spam, and I'm no genius.
Re:Guerrilla(sp?) marketing by Asic+Eng · 2001-10-25 02:54 · Score: 1

I'm worried to - this could easily distract Howard Stern from the important topics he usually covers... uhmm... hang on... :)
Re:Guerrilla(sp?) marketing by Thatman311 · 2001-10-25 03:10 · Score: 1

What personal info is that we have to give up? lamness filter alert....this is a revolt against the lameness filter alert.

--
Silly Rabbit...Sig's are for kids.
Re:Guerrilla(sp?) marketing by cavemanf16 · 2001-10-25 03:29 · Score: 1

Well, MS' Passport would, at the least, log your IP address and store cookies all over the place to make sure any authentication needing to be done is done properly. Personally, I don't like companies monitoring my every move on the internet, do you?
Re:Guerrilla(sp?) marketing by MaxVlast · 2001-10-25 05:00 · Score: 1

I gave up caring about privacy a long time ago. I'll use ssh and such to protect my passwords, but I figure that people probably can easily find out where I go on the Internet, no matter what I do. So why care?

--
There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
Max V.
NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome
Re:Guerrilla(sp?) marketing by jsoderba · 2001-10-25 06:14 · Score: 1

When your Windows crashes (and it will) a popup comes up that asks if you would like to send the crash info to Microsoft to debug and possibly improve the product, or at least help you out.

You're being ridiculous. They asks you if you want to send it in. If you don't want to, just say no. Isn't it obvious to you that looking at a stack trace would make it easier for MS support to find out what went wrong?

Netscape/Mozilla.org does the same thing with the Netscape Quality Feedback Agent: when the browser crashes, a window pops up which let's you send in some info about what went wrong. This lets the developer find new bugs and shows them which occur most often.
Re:Guerrilla(sp?) marketing by bmajik · 2001-10-25 06:16 · Score: 2

What ?

What personal info ? What untested database system ? What lack of choice ?

On the contrary - no one can force you to use XP, and even if you do use XP, it doesn't force you to do anything with hotmail, passport, windows media player, etc etc. Activating windows isn't even terribly instrusive. It's pretty much just clicking "ok" once and never dealing with it again.

Listen, if you think Microsoft has the power to remove choices and options from your life, you should step back and re-examine things. If microsoft could force you to do anything, dont you think they'd be all over that ? "Forcing" people to use XP, Passport, and .NET would be much cheaper than spending billions on developing, marketing, and improving them, so i think if there were a way for them to do so, they'd do it.

Yes, even for microsoft, free will is a bitch. Those pesky consumers can still click "no", "dont ever fucking bother me again", or even more damaging, they can choose to simply not buy XP.

If you've stopped making choices for yourself and instead microsoft is making decisions in your life, i submit that you should just kill yourself. Afterall, if you're not at the helm of your own ship, who is ?

--
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
Re:Guerrilla(sp?) marketing by salasia · 2001-10-27 03:26 · Score: 1

While I can't applaud the "go kill yourself" comment, I find it refreshing that a few people actually post to these forums in a less-than-M$-is-the-devil fashion. So many posters take the OPLP (Obnoxious Pretentious Linux Punk) stance that everything is wrong with Microsoft and the status quo and that the only correct answer is free/open love/software. Even the wonderfully sardonic CmdrTaco sunk to pandering depths with his post of this article.
While I feel it's easy to respect those with non-dogmatic viewpoints (pro or anti M$), people who are slaves to the "popular attitude" usually vilify them.
Does M$ force us to buy their products? Maybe; through their reduced support of older products and their deals with new machine manufacturers. But blaming them for making money is like blaming commercials for an irritating TV experience. It doesn't matter if you like it or not, that's the way things work right now. You can turn off the TV, rent videos/DVDs, watch PBS or pay channels. The same thing goes with our industry.
It's time for the crybabies to cease assailing our ears.
You want to play?
Here's the field, here's the rules. Don't decry the teams as awful just because they score. And no, they don't cheat. Cheating is when you break the rules. In our industry, the consumers make the ultimate rules and there aren't too many of them.
You want a different game?
Get some others to go with you and start a new one ... (Of course, I guess I have the same choice in forums, don't I?)
My father and grandfather both worked for IBM starting in 1941. They worked under the idea that mainframes were the only answer and were surprised by computers on the desktop. I started in various UNIX platforms (yes, I still consider LINUX different than UNIX). I work with every major platform available. I'm not installing XP, but I can't argue with the success M$ has contributed to our industry.
Make your flames good 'cause my filter is set above the crap. (prolly even above the score of this post ;-)
salasia, out.

why it affects us by gavlil · 2001-10-25 01:40 · Score: 2, Interesting

I know this affects a fair number of users but for the life of me I just don't know why ;)

windows is a major part of computing and of history. many people who work it IT have to come in to contact with windows (like it or not).

there are hundreds of reasons why it would affect us - even if its just because we have a new set of themes to d/l for X!

dont be so ignorant to the world outside slashdot taco (yes one does exist!)

--

Do Unto Others As You Would Have Others Do Unto You - ONLY HARDER!

Re:why it affects us by trash+eighty · 2001-10-25 01:51 · Score: 1

er you do realise he was making a joke?
Re:why it affects us by Surak · 2001-10-25 01:57 · Score: 2

windows is a major part of computing and of history. many people who work it IT have to come in to contact with windows (like it or not).

What? I haven't come in contact with Windows at all...

An exception OE has occurred at 0028:C2A4785E in VxD tcpip(01) + 00001EBE. This was called from 0028:C001AE74 in VxD NDIS(01) + 0000378C. It may be possible to continue normally.

--
My journal has hot /. gossip.
Re:why it affects us by micromoog · 2001-10-25 02:22 · Score: 4, Funny

...many people who work it IT have to come in to contact with windows...
Except for those who work in the server room. Sunlight messes up the air-conditioning.
Re:why it affects us by well_jung · 2001-10-25 02:53 · Score: 3, Funny

We have a glass wall in our Server Room. All those purty lights impress the VC's.

--
Carl G. Jung
--
"With one breath, with one flow, You will know Synchronicity" -La Policia
Re:why it affects us by Nater · 2001-10-25 06:02 · Score: 2

Does anyone have sources for these quotes? I would actually be amazed and amused if they were verifiably true. As it stands I'm only mildly amused.

--
I like to play children's songs in minor keys.
"We're all sons of bitches now." --J. Robert Oppenheimer

No more blue screen of death? by opusbuddy · 2001-10-25 01:40 · Score: 5, Funny

I dunnaknow. I've kind of gotten used to the blue screen of death. Tells me when it's time to go to the bathroom.

--
If this were easy, they wouldn't need us to do it!

Re:No more blue screen of death? by swordboy · 2001-10-25 01:44 · Score: 5, Funny

No more BSOD?

Does XP come with some sort of a utility to chage the color of the screen of death?

I could go for a nice mauve or perhaps a pale green (easy on the eyes).

--

Life is the leading cause of death in America.
Re:No more blue screen of death? by Ian_Bailey · 2001-10-25 01:46 · Score: 1

Does anyone know what an XP crash looks like? It's be nice if somone could post a screenshot for us all to laugh at... :-)
Re:No more blue screen of death? by Xawen · 2001-10-25 01:50 · Score: 1

Screenshot of a locked system? How might you propose doing that?
Re:No more blue screen of death? by Snowbeam · 2001-10-25 01:51 · Score: 1

No, but the Xbox has a green screen of death. You can see a demo of it here:
http://www.evilavatar.com/EA/News/M34018/6983.jpg
Enjoy!

--
I am Lord Snowbeam. Heed my call!
Re:No more blue screen of death? by dragons_flight · 2001-10-25 01:53 · Score: 2

With a digital camera, after all everyone is going to run out and get one now that XP promotes media editing right?
Re:No more blue screen of death? by SilentChris · 2001-10-25 01:53 · Score: 3, Interesting

You could always change the blue screen with a few registry hacks up until ME. Green always freaked people out, though.
Re:No more blue screen of death? by pibakic · 2001-10-25 01:53 · Score: 1

Best to pick a good colour, you going to spend enough time looking at it.

--
"NEVER, EVER feed your computer beer" - some /.er
Re:No more blue screen of death? by joyrider · 2001-10-25 01:55 · Score: 1

There's an option to do this in older versions of Windows anyway...
Re:No more blue screen of death? by zummit · 2001-10-25 02:03 · Score: 1

... or when it's time to go have a smoke break. [If M$ sh*t didn't crash so much, I'd probably be a FORMER smoker by now.]
Re:No more blue screen of death? by MacBrave · 2001-10-25 02:03 · Score: 1

I always prefered the Amiga's 'Guru Meditation' messages myself........
Re:No more blue screen of death? by purplemonkeydan · 2001-10-25 02:04 · Score: 2

Same shade of blue as Win2k (navy blue), a lot more explanatory text, a lot of apologising, and it's in Lucida Console, not the VGA font.

Only time I saw them on my XP RC1 was with Norton AV 2002 and AtGuard not getting along.
Re:No more blue screen of death? by Jucius+Maximus · 2001-10-25 02:04 · Score: 1

"Does XP come with some sort of a utility to chage the color of the screen of death?"
You can change the colour of the Win9x BSOD with a free util called X-Setup from www.xteq.com. I got a kick out of telling people on IRC that my Win98 box (back when I used that OS) had not BSODs. I had changed the colours to black/green. Maybe XP makes it easier to change the associated registry settings.
Re:No more blue screen of death? by MrFredBloggs · 2001-10-25 02:08 · Score: 1

Wrong. Unless you`re going to use non-MS software to post it. Remember, its against your license agreement to disparage MS using its own software!
Re:No more blue screen of death? by LMCBoy · 2001-10-25 02:28 · Score: 1

that can't be a GSOD, it has a (presumably functional) OK button.

--
Liberal (adj.): Free from bigotry; open to progress; tolerant of others.
Re:No more blue screen of death? by Radrik · 2001-10-25 02:42 · Score: 1

I had XP BSoD on me two days ago. I was running IRC, an FTP server, Outlook, Winamp and an N64 emulator. I switched out of full-screen on the emulator, and it all went to hell. XP's BSoD is kind of prettier than previous ones, but instead of hanging on the screen, the box automatically reboots, so I unfortunately didn't get to see much. However, I did notice some reds, and probably some greens in there. Also, the shade of blue is the new "XP Blue" color that you see on the login box, menus and stuff. It's much, much nicer to look at.

On a related note, has anyone gotten ASPI to work in XP? Or for that matter, any CD burning apps with native CDI support?

-Mark
Re:No more blue screen of death? by epukinsk · 2001-10-25 02:57 · Score: 1

Before I reinstalled, XP gave me a BSOD every time I tried to shut down.

-Erik
Re:No more blue screen of death? by Thatman311 · 2001-10-25 03:14 · Score: 1

I have ASPI working in XP using a SmartMedia 6x External SCSI CD-RW. Works like a champ.

--
Silly Rabbit...Sig's are for kids.
Re:No more blue screen of death? by First+Person · 2001-10-25 03:17 · Score: 2

What do you mean by 'disparage MS using its own software'? You're merely documenting one of the many features of XP.

--
Given one hour to live, the student replied: "I'd spend it with professor FP who can make an hour seem like a lifetime."
Re:No more blue screen of death? by Jucius+Maximus · 2001-10-25 03:23 · Score: 1

"You need to get a life, and start hanging out in a different IRC channel"
Only on Slashdot would hanging out at a 'different' IRC channel be considered getting a life. :-)
Re:No more blue screen of death? by Sick+Boy · 2001-10-25 03:37 · Score: 1

Woah, time out- AtGaurd runs on XP? What version? The version I've got doesn't get along with 2k _or_ ME. I'd love to be able to use that kick ass program, even if it means turning to the evil empire.

--
Does narcissism count as a hobby? --Shawn Latimer
Re:No more blue screen of death? by BitchAss · 2001-10-25 03:57 · Score: 1

On a related note, has anyone gotten ASPI to work in XP? Or for that matter, any CD burning apps with native CDI support?

I've been using Nero Burning ROM on XP for the last month or so and haven't had a problem.

--
Like sex? Read and write about it! Indecent Blogging
Re:No more blue screen of death? by altagir · 2001-10-25 04:20 · Score: 1

Nah, no need for it.
I realized XP was rebooting automatically in case of error (by default, changing this behavior is kind of a long process) and relog u as if nothing had happened.
Got a crash ? We won't tell u anymore.

Other funny things, i couldn't get ssh work through my LAN from XP (???). So much of increased security.

Oh and yeah, much less crashes ! Although u still need to reboot since some services simply stop working unless u reboot.

However, this is still a big improvement.
Re:No more blue screen of death? by SIGFPE · 2001-10-25 04:55 · Score: 2

You should see a doctor. Your bladder and bowels should be able to hold stuff for longer than that.

--
-- SIGFPE
Re:No more blue screen of death? by Graspee_Leemoor · 2001-10-25 04:58 · Score: 1

XP bluescreens as per usual.

I had XP final on my comp- the motherboard or processor died so I swapped in a new mb, cpu and ram, and when I re-started the machine it blue screened with a Stop Error (7B in fact).

The really bizarre thing is that it didn't ask me to re-register it- and the cpu was Intel whereas the old one was AMD, so even with cpu serial turned off it must have known.

Gosh- you don't suppose all those posts on /. were over-reacting do you? ;)

graspee
Re:No more blue screen of death? by csbruce · 2001-10-25 05:15 · Score: 1

I could go for a nice mauve or perhaps a pale green (easy on the eyes).

Mauve has more RAM!
Re:No more blue screen of death? by theancient2 · 2001-10-25 05:25 · Score: 1

My CD-RW drive stopped working in XP too. So did my DVD drive. Both worked natively in 2000.

You need to download a hacked Adaptec ASPI driver. That's the only way I've found to get any CD or DVD software to work. I'm not sure where to get it -- probably some warez site somewhere. It's kind of strange that you'd have to resort to that to make your hardware work. XP's built-in CD-R functionality will never work with this method, but third-party apps will.

The "correct" way is to get your manufacturer to give you a driver update. Of course, that isn't always an option.
Re:No more blue screen of death? by Spy+Hunter · 2001-10-25 05:45 · Score: 2

No, I find that XP reboots randomly while changing the screensaver, bypassing the BSOD entirely.
Okay, so I'm certain that the problem is my video drivers (all the GL screensavers are 3D accelerated now) and not Windows XP. It's still annoying though.

--
main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
Re:No more blue screen of death? by hardburn · 2001-10-25 06:23 · Score: 1

You know how the Win2000 desktop defaults to that blue background? It's an optimization! That way, they don't have to redraw as much of the screen when it goes BSOD. And you Linux weenies said Microsoft never improves their software!

--
Not a typewriter
Re:No more blue screen of death? by Jeremiah+Cornelius · 2001-10-25 06:33 · Score: 1

> I could go for a nice mauve or perhaps a pale green (easy on the eyes).
> Mauve has more RAM!
Ahhh...
A reference to one of the best ever Dilbert strips! "What color do you want that database"
Boss: I think we should build an SQL database.
Dilbert (thinking): Uh-oh.
==
Dilbert (thinking): Does he understand what he said or is it something he saw in a trade magazine ad?
==
Dilbert: What color do you want that database?
Boss: I think mauve has the most RAM.
"User Friendly" can only aspire to these heights...

--
"Flyin' in just a sweet place,
Never been known to fail..."
Re:No more blue screen of death? by jallen02 · 2001-10-25 08:05 · Score: 1

No, there was an excellent article about the hardware that would have to change before it would require you to re-register. Swapping one or two items wont really make you have to re-register I don't believe.

Jeremy
Re:No more blue screen of death? by Sentry21 · 2001-10-25 08:08 · Score: 1

Acually, they were .ini hacks.

Personally, I preferred red on black or white on black. God knows I had enough blue-on-white at 5 AM, after 8 hours with only moon and monitor light. Bright bad. Dark good.

Come to think of it, I've got pine looking very similar.

--Dan
Re:No more blue screen of death? by dazed-n-confused · 2001-10-25 08:46 · Score: 2

That's an old joke.
Re:No more blue screen of death? by Corrado · 2001-10-25 08:47 · Score: 2

Ahhh...

What I wouldn't give for a good 'ol Amiga Guru Meditation. See it here.

--
KangarooBox - We make IT simple!
Re:No more blue screen of death? by shymog · 2001-10-25 09:42 · Score: 1

I'm not having that problem, but it does reboot every time I turn on my computer with my HP Photosmart 1000 turned off. :/

--
"I wasn't sniffing your spicy brains."
Re:No more blue screen of death? by Bert64 · 2001-10-25 10:19 · Score: 1

Win2k and XP i assume, is configured to "reboot immediately" instead of displaying the bluescreen error, this is configurable.. but not having such a machine with me right now i can`t remember how it`s done. I have had win2k and XP reboot in this way several times, and bluescreen after i turned on the option.. More often it will just freeze up completely, or put the i/o systems into an unuseable state (blank screen, or screen of too low resolution to do anything - and you cant open the control panel to reset it) and I had many problems with the soundcard somehow being "locked" when i tried to record, the application attempting to record would freeze up and couldn`t be killed, such that the system wouldn`t reboot correctly and had to be power cycled. Still, it is atleast far more stable than the 9x series.. perhaps Windows 3000 will be as stable as linux or bsd

--
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Re:No more blue screen of death? by Yakman · 2001-10-25 10:25 · Score: 1

I had something like this with Win2K, presumably WinXP is similar since it's based on the Win2K base.

Aaaaanyway, the problem is that when you install Win2K it only installs the IDE Controller drivers for the controller you've got when you install. Changing the mobo changed the controller and so Win2K wouldn't boot. There is a solution from Microsoft (found on support.microsoft.com) that involves booting with your old motherboard and installing the other IDE drivers off the CD manually, but it's not supported.

Nice "feature" eh?

And regarding activation, AFAIK they've changed it to only be based on the MAC address of your NIC now or something.
Re:No more blue screen of death? by purplemonkeydan · 2001-10-25 13:33 · Score: 2

I had it going on 2k and XP just fine. 3.22 I think. I agree, fantastic program.

It doesn't work with Norton AntiVirus 2002, though. Everytime you try to access a shared drive it BSOD's in TCPIP.sys.
Re:No more blue screen of death? by purplemonkeydan · 2001-10-25 13:35 · Score: 2

Nah, it's a different shade of blue. Win2k blue is lighter than BSOD blue.

Sorry to disappoint you :)

I don't know why people are concerned... by great+throwdini · 2001-10-25 01:41 · Score: 2, Funny

...about things like digital rights. The CNN piece clearly states in the first paragraph:

The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive.

That's should satisfy everyone, right?

Re:I don't know why people are concerned... by jayhawk88 · 2001-10-25 01:54 · Score: 1

Sounds like someone at CNN hit the "Submit" button rather than "Preview".
Re:I don't know why people are concerned... by Anonymous Coward · 2001-10-25 02:10 · Score: 2, Funny

That's why I hated Windows ME so much. It didn't have a delete function and I filled up my 40GB drive and then had to throw it away and buy another one. I'm glad to see that Microsoft finally implemented a delete feature.
Re:I don't know why people are concerned... by eyez · 2001-10-25 02:33 · Score: 1

about things like digital rights. The CNN piece clearly states in the first paragraph: The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive.

Wowee. I can't believe nobody thought of this before. Anyone have any idea when they will code this feature into Linux? I hope it's soon, so I can clear up some much needed space on my hard drive.
:)

--
get 0wned. irc.w30wnzj00.com
Re:I don't know why people are concerned... by Yokaze · 2001-10-25 02:53 · Score: 2

It's just unclearly formulated.
When your deleteing a file, your not deleteing the data. Your just removing the directory entry for that file.
So you data is still there (to the great pleasure of the law enforcement units).
To really delete the data, you have to overwrite the data with different data. Even several times to be sure that no traces are left.
This feature was usually provided by some tools (PGPtools comes to mind).
This is now integrated into XP, much to the concern of some law-enforcement people.
See a story at The Reg

--
"Between strong and weak, between rich and poor [...], it is freedom which oppresses and the law which sets free"
Re:I don't know why people are concerned... by amanb · 2001-10-25 02:54 · Score: 1

That's fine. Micro$oft keeps doing that all the time.
Re:I don't know why people are concerned... by Ziviyr · 2001-10-25 05:48 · Score: 1

and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive.

So they finally built an axe and a can of gasoline into the OS?

--

Someone set us up the bomb, so shine we are!

Why? by SaturnTim · 2001-10-25 01:41 · Score: 2, Redundant

Okay, I don't mean this as a troll or flaimbait, but I really don't know...

What does XP offer me over and above my current win2k? I'm tired of updating to the latest and greatest just for the fun of it. My current os runs all of my applications without much trouble, so what do I get for my money?

Thanks.
--ST

--
http://www.theMediaBunker.com

Re:Why? by WhiteKnight07 · 2001-10-25 01:46 · Score: 1

I've been running XP pro alongside win2k pro for a couple of weeks now. It doesn't really offer anything over 2k except funny colored icons. If you have 95, 98, or ME go ahead and upgrade. If you have 2k, don't bother.

--

We're going to make information free Mr. Anderson, whether you like it, or not.
Re:Why? by jayhawk88 · 2001-10-25 01:49 · Score: 1

Supposedly XP gives incredible stability, while still taking advantage of all the latest multimedia features, plug-and-play techs, etc. I say "supposedly", of course, since this is the same thing we've been hearing since Win95.
Re:Why? by edremy · 2001-10-25 01:49 · Score: 3, Troll

What does XP offer me over and above my current win2k? I'm tired of updating to the latest and greatest just for the fun of it. My current os runs all of my applications without much trouble, so what do I get for my money?
Nothing whatsoever: you actually get less with XP.
XP (Home at least) is not an upgrade to W2K users- it's W2K with a candy colored shell, some bundled software, no multiprocessor support and the ability to join domains removed. We're sticking with W2K here. (We're an almost all MS school, but I'm pushing OSX hard :^)
OTOH, it's a massive upgrade to W95/8/ME users. Anything to finally put a stake through that miserable series of crapware is a good thing for the world.
Eric

--
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
Re:Why? by fobbman · 2001-10-25 01:51 · Score: 2

One of the cool features that I've seen is that XP has the Go Back features of Millennium, where if you install something that hoses your OS you can boot into Safe Mode (hopefully) and select from a calendar what configuration was the last known good one for you.
Re:Why? by 1stflight · 2001-10-25 01:55 · Score: 1

Honestly, not much ...

I've used the betas of XP and reviewed several of the benchmarks so here we go...For one thing you'll have to go to XP Professional Upgrade which offers the following over Windows 2000

1. Improved NTFS access times, not great but improved

2. Improved Usablity, I'll give it this is much prettier but that's really about it.

3 The ability to do driver rollbacks (as a gamer, beta drivers are a staple of my life, but as a home user probably wouldn't do allot of good)

4. The system restore feature from WindowsME, me I use a copy of Ghost

5. Built in Cdrom burning... don't know about you, but most CDR's come with software that does much better.

6. Built in firewall, limited very limited... better than nothing, but you might as well turn your ports off for the same functionality.

The bad side

1. Slower graphics drivers, yeah most lose framerates compared to 98 AND 2000. Even the Radeon and GeForces

2. Slightly higher memory requirements (a minor point, ram is cheap now)

3.That dammed Registration!!! It's a strange mix off a possible necessary evil with a really nasty inconvience. Basically it generated a code that deactiveated your machine if you change so many parts out (Motherboard and NIC mainly) this code sticks with your machine and "only" your machine though I can't see why you couldn't install XP on several machines with the exact same hardware.

4. Not that different from 2000 ..allot of the same features

All in all, if you're going from 95/98/ME to XP it's a good thing.. but from W2K to XP it's not a pressing thing unless you just want to stay with the power curve. Me, I think I'm going to stick with dual booting :)

--
3000 dead over past 2 years, still no free Palestinians, still
Re:Why? by NineNine · 2001-10-25 02:00 · Score: 1

XP has nothing to do with Win 95, whatsoever. Completely different. Of course it's more stable and faster. It's NT. Read a bit before trolling, huh?
Re:Why? by denzo · 2001-10-25 02:04 · Score: 2

What does XP offer me over and above my current win2k? I'm tired of updating to the latest and greatest just for the fun of it. My current os runs all of my applications without much trouble, so what do I get for my money?
For the most part, not very much. Some of the bundled features, such as MP3 support, CD burning, etc., won't be new for most of us. And the interface certainly isn't worth the upgrade.
But there are other things that will set itself apart from Win2k pretty well. Various hardware manufacturers were very slow with making drivers for Win2k, especially from those who make "consumer" hardware. Their argument was that Win2k is just a business OS, and that they didn't need to support it. Creative Labs was pretty slow in getting updated Live!Ware drivers out, and even the latest Live!Ware 3.0 drivers for Win2k are inferior to their Win9x counterparts (for one thing, it takes a lot longer to load up the speaker icon in the taskbar). Now that XP is out, I'm sure the driver support for Win2k can only go downhill.
XP will have an advantage that Win2k didn't have. Since XP is now the combination of the 9x and NT line, only one set of drivers needs to be written, which will make it that much easier for hardware manufacturers to release the drivers. That to me is probably the biggest reason why I'll eventually switch from Win2k to XP (eventually, but not yet).
Re:Why? by KenRH · 2001-10-25 02:05 · Score: 1

How does win95/98 games work with winXP (home and/or proffesional)?
I use my home PC mostly for games, but my girlfriend does some schoolwork.
Re:Why? by Christianfreak · 2001-10-25 02:06 · Score: 2

Like the posts above: To be able to change the colors of the screen of death! :)

--
The Anti-Blog
Re:Why? by ravenwing_np · 2001-10-25 02:12 · Score: 1

From what I hear tell, you can do things like change the screen depth/resolution, install and remove programs and install and remove drivers without a reboot. There is also a claim that stability has increased, but that has to be seen.
Re:Why? by jayhawk88 · 2001-10-25 02:15 · Score: 1

NineNine accusing me of trolling, nice.

Of course XP has nothing to do with 95, the point is that Microsoft has been singing the "more reliable, more stable" song since 95 was released. They've yet to deliver on that promise fully, though you could make a case for NT/2000 in a server environment I suppose.
Re:Why? by Howie · 2001-10-25 02:16 · Score: 1

We're an almost all MS school, but I'm pushing OSX hard

So rather than merely moving OS to (say) Linux, junk all the hardware as well? Apple's school discounts must be fantastic to make that even slightly appealing.

--
"don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
Re:Why? by the_2nd_coming · 2001-10-25 02:17 · Score: 2

woopie...and how many folks are gonna actualy take advantage of that? to most, it will just be anothe one of those litle pictures that you neve click on for fear of breaking tha computer

--

I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Re:Why? by mccalli · 2001-10-25 02:20 · Score: 1

'Switch users' without having to close all your apps - very useful to me as my home machine has a user for myself and my girlfriend, and I will no longer have to close down all my ssh connections to the Raq in order for her to check email.
Remote desktop logon. Useful for all those times when relatives ring up and say "It's not working...".
Some of the Powertoys look quite nice too. See them here [microsoft.com].
Oh, and a default background that looks like the Laughing Cow advert on UK TV. Perhaps I could live without that particular feature...
Re:Why? by cholokoy · 2001-10-25 02:25 · Score: 1

Nothing really substantial unless you count registering your system so you can use it and again if you make substantial changes to your machine. Then if you want to transact with merchants that have implemented passport authentication, you only need to give some of your personal information to microsoft so it is very convenient to do so.

--
Return the bells of Balangiga.
Re:Why? by Elwood+P+Dowd · 2001-10-25 02:27 · Score: 2

Gosh, you've gotten 11 replies so far, and no one has mentioned the few things that I like about XP. There are a couple UI improvements that make my life *so* much better. First off, if you have a million windows open, it consolidates them on the taskbar into menus by application. If you have a cluttered task bar, this is great.

Also, most common contextual menu options are visible as a sidebar in explorer windows. This can be handy.

But best of all! You can switch users! It's excellent! I don't mean you can log out and log in as someone else, but rather you can log in a second time, and the first user's applications are still running in the background. I can't tell you how annoying it used to be to have to stop listening to music, log off of IM, and lose all my IE windows if I wanted to muck around as administrator. I realize, this feature could have/should have been here since NT4, but it wasn't.

But I'm not going to kid you. I run it in "Windows Classic" mode 'cause the flat theme just isn't done right in all applications. Aside from these few things (and the driver rollback that I haven't used yet) there's not much improvement. It's definitely still the same OS. Do what you like.

--

There are no trails. There are no trees out here.
Re:Why? by trentfoley · 2001-10-25 02:35 · Score: 1

Some of the bundled features, such as MP3 support, CD burning, etc., won't be new for most of us.
MP3 support is not bundled. See Windows XP Will Support MP3 - But as Paid Add-On
Re:Why? by Shanep · 2001-10-25 02:35 · Score: 1

though I can't see why you couldn't install XP on several machines with the exact same hardware

The MAC address in NICs are unique (theoretically and practically. Absolutely if not for a very few cheapo no-name crap cards).

Hard drives have serial numbers too, hdparm -i /dev/hda for an example.

Motherboards probably have unique serial numbers too, though I'm not completely sure.

Intel's famed id number?

SCSI controllers and devices, perhaps also?

RAM EEPROM data?

Video card serial number? I'm sure my Matrox G400 has one.

Surely they would just grab the hdd serial and generate from that, forcing the installed OS to follow that drive only.

I could'nt give a shit anyway, after far too many years with MS (starting with Windows 3.0), I am very glad I have discovered Debian GNU/Linux.

--
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
Re:Why? by DNAGuy · 2001-10-25 02:37 · Score: 1

Assuming they use the "Windows Driver Model" or whatever they're calling it these days, the drivers for XP and 2000 should be identical.

--
BRENT ROCKWOOD, EST'd 1975
Re:Why? by NineNine · 2001-10-25 02:45 · Score: 1

Both NT 4, and especially W2K have been very stable for a long time. Since XP is based on NT, there's really no reason NOT to expect it to be just as good.
Re:Why? by Jburkholder · 2001-10-25 02:46 · Score: 2

OEM tech support must love this, tho.

Guy at work told me a story where his son had installed something on his new Dell and the thing would stall during boot and he would get as far as seeing the desktop wallpaper but no icons or taskbar.

He called Dell, they had him boot with the rescue CD (still in the shrink-wrap, this guy is alright but he's not a PC expert). From there the tech had him go to the go-back menu and restore the reg from the day before his son installed the offending game. Saved his bacon with a minimum of intervention.

Now, you can of course argue that the OS shouldn't have croaked like this in the first place, and I wouldn't argue at all - but this is a vast improvement over 'reinstall windows'.
Re:Why? by joshki · 2001-10-25 02:47 · Score: 1

I'll say right now that I've used it several times already... there have been numerous driver problems in the rc's and even the final now, and it doesn't seem like there's a good way to get the old drivers completely uninstalled. System Restore works like a CHARM! I don't know how I ever lived without it now... of course, I do with linux... but that's another story...

--
I do not read or respond to AC's. If you want a discussion, log in. Otherwise, don't waste your time.
Re:Why? by tshak · 2001-10-25 02:50 · Score: 2

FYI: I run Win2K Pro and have no reason to switch in the short term. So far, there's no great reason. However, there are some nifty things. For example, my friend put 512mb of RAM in his system (since it's like $30 per 256meg stick!) and used XP's ability to "cache the OS and critical DLL's" into memory. Using his machine feels like using a PDA. You just click on something and BOOM - it's there! Also, there's the "skinning" feature... cool but frivolous. He claims that when he goes to his Win2K box that he instantly misses features from XP. Nevertheless, I'm happy with Win2K, and I look forward to upgrading sometime after SP1.

--

There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
Re:Why? by Reckless+Visionary · 2001-10-25 02:50 · Score: 2

Um.. .XP Home is not meant to be the upgrade path for Win2k users. I thought that was pretty clear.

--
I think I'll stop here.
Re:Why? by coleSLAW · 2001-10-25 02:51 · Score: 1

But best of all! You can switch users! It's excellent! I don't mean you can log out and log in as someone else, but rather you can log in a second time, and the first user's applications are still running in the background. I can't tell you how annoying it used to be to have to stop listening to music, log off of IM, and lose all my IE windows if I wanted to muck around as administrator. I realize, this feature could have/should have been here since NT4, but it wasn't.

You really shouldn't be doing that, since we don't know how secure the Fast Switching feature is. As well, it only works on the Workgroup model. As soon as you use Domain Authentication, this feature goes away.

What to do? Use the runas command. It basically allows you to change the privledges of a process and all its children by running them as another user. If you don't have this command (It's bundled in the Windows 2000 Resource Kit) then you can still make a shortcut that runs a program with a different user. Go to the Properties menu for the shortcut and check the "Run as different user" box.

--
== I am not Me.
Re:Why? by joshki · 2001-10-25 02:53 · Score: 1

NT 4 could hardly be called stable... only by comparing it to windows 98, maybe. I ran NT 4 for years and saw the good old bsod way too frequently. 2000, now... that's a stable operating system. And from what I've seen of XP(running it since RC1) I'm quite impressed. I've only been able to get it to bsod once -- and my box runs for weeks at a time with no lockups. I only reboot to update drivers now, as opposed to rebooting every day with NT 4.

--
I do not read or respond to AC's. If you want a discussion, log in. Otherwise, don't waste your time.
Re:Why? by haruharaharu · 2001-10-25 02:55 · Score: 2

I've been using XP on my PDC for quite some time now

Then you should know that there are two variants - home and office (and probably the server ones too). The home version has no need for domains, except for doing remote dial-in to work. For that they'll sell you xp-pro (the office variant) so you can do a single person TS and run your office box remotely.

By the way, am I the only one who can't concieve trusting a server with big candy colored buttons?

--
Reboot macht Frei.
Re:Why? by i_am_nitrogen · 2001-10-25 02:55 · Score: 1

First off, if you have a million windows open, it consolidates them on the taskbar into menus by application

And Linux doesn't? I mean, come on... Is GNOME/KDE actually AHEAD of Microsoft in the UI department? I've been doing that with both for quite a while. Maybe someone should've patented it or something with the terms "for use in open source software only" somewhere near the end.
But best of all! You can switch users! It's excellent! I don't mean you can log out and log in as someone else, but rather you can log in a second time, and the first user's applications are still running in the background.

Wow, what a nifty feature... They finally decided to implement something that UNIX has had since, what, 1978? I mean, how hard is it to use your handy-dandy virtual terminal switcher (CTRL-ALT-RIGHT_ARROW), and start up another X display? Or, if you aren't interested in CLI, I'm sure that it's possible for someone to write a utility to automatically start multiple X sessions using KDM/GDM/XDM, without having to edit any text config files.

--
A solution to the problem with music today
Re:Why? by asincero · 2001-10-25 02:57 · Score: 1

> XP (Home at least) is not an upgrade to W2K
> users

Well .. no shit Sherlock. How the hell was this modded up to Informative?

- Arcadio
Re:Why? by haxor.dk · 2001-10-25 03:05 · Score: 1

"Just for the fun of it"?

Are you a masochist or something?

;)
Re:Why? by blixel · 2001-10-25 03:05 · Score: 1

What does XP offer me over and above my current win2k? I'm tired of updating to the latest and greatest just for the fun of it. My current os runs all of my applications without much trouble, so what do I get for my money?

If what you have works, don't fix it. Seriously you don't change out your CPU every time Intel/AMD brings out a new one do you? (Which, perhaps ironically, would make a hell of a lot more sense than ?upgrading? to XP.)
Re:Why? by fulgan · 2001-10-25 03:05 · Score: 1

Very little is what you'll get: The ability to run several user sessions at the same time, a prettier or, at least, changable UI, some beginner-oriented things that you're likely to turn off as soon as you find them and several, mostly useless features.

But XP isn't supposed to be a revolution to you: it's supposed to be a revolution for 9x user who will get a solid kernel at last and some of the goodies from the NT world.

It also means that developpers can begin to imagine a world where they do not have to support that piece of^h^h^h^h^h^h win9x...
Re:Why? by ethereal · 2001-10-25 03:06 · Score: 1

It's not just crap NICs - on some NICs you can change the MAC to be identical to your other machine.

--
Your right to not believe: Americans United for Separation of Church and
Re:Why? by Tony.Tang · 2001-10-25 03:07 · Score: 1

XP offers a lot of cool "under the hood" changes from Win2k.

A bigger deal though is a lot of added functionality. One of the things I've been very excited about is the bridge capabilities of WinXP. At home I've got a WinXP box acting as the "hub" to two internal networks -- one that runs over a HomePNA (phoneline network cards), and one that uses regular NIC's. On top of this, my WinXP box is the little guy hooked straight up to the cable modem. The network bridge capability allows the boxes on the HomePNA network to see the regular NIC network as a unified network (and vice versa). This is REALLY COOL. No special routing necessary.

In addition, the personal firewalling is amazing! It's a stateful firewall, which means that the end-user doesn't need to plug in new modules for ICQ, CuSeeMe, etc., etc. as we need to do right now with ipchains (and its replacement I think??)...

I have to say that at the very least, this is pretty damned sweet.
Re:Why? by Znork · 2001-10-25 03:08 · Score: 2

You could probably bypass all that with a virtual machine like VMWare. The reality is, as always, if you dont control the hardware and hardware access you are going to get bullshitted. Period.

Not that I give a shit either. I'm over and done with that pile.
Re:Why? by Red+Avenger · 2001-10-25 03:10 · Score: 1

Remote Desktop, Built in Firewall, Seamless Wireless Integration, Built in Zip Utility, Sytem Restore, Driver Rollback, WMP 8, Windows Messenger, Updated Interface, Task Based design.
Re:Why? by edremy · 2001-10-25 03:13 · Score: 2

So rather than merely moving OS to (say) Linux, junk all the hardware as well? Apple's school discounts must be fantastic to make that even slightly appealing.
No, we have some Mac users and I'm trying to show how good of a client OS OSX is. We're not moving away from Windows anytime in the foreseeable future: we're moving deeper into the Windows world. (We're replacing the main NT4 servers with W2K/AD this Christmas break: the rest of the W2K migration is basically done.)
Forget Linux. It's not even a remote option here. Doesn't run MS Office- suggest StarOffice and watch me laugh. Doesn't run the educational software we use. Doesn't run the administrative software we use. Nobody but me here knows anything at all about it. We don't even have a comp-sci major: the students here for the most part wouldn't be able to handle Linux on a day-to-day basis.
I've got my little P2-300 Linux server for some Apache/Perl/cgi goodness I cooked up at my last job, but that's it.
Eric

--
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
Re:Why? by edremy · 2001-10-25 03:32 · Score: 2

Well .. no shit Sherlock. How the hell was this modded up to Informative?
Gee, perhaps because that was what the guy asked?! Perhaps you understand XP Home isn't an W2K upgrade, but he didn't.

--
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
Re:Why? by aozilla · 2001-10-25 03:42 · Score: 1

And Linux doesn't? I mean, come on... Is GNOME/KDE actually AHEAD of Microsoft in the UI department?

The question was to compare XP to Win2k, not to Linux. Today I had to do a manual FSCK on bootup. My mom certainly wouldn't know how to do that. That and things like it are the reason XP is lightyears ahead of Linux.

--
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
Re:Why? by Rogerborg · 2001-10-25 03:46 · Score: 2
- XP has the Go Back features of Millennium
And it was very useful on WinME, for the few weeks I wasted on that abomination. OTOH, I've been developing on Win2K for a year, regularly changing my hardware and using every dodgy beta driver that I could get my hands on, and I've never once managed to get it into an unstable state. The recovery feature is nice, but it's about as useful as fitting airbags to a house.
--
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Re:Why? by drsquare · 2001-10-25 03:56 · Score: 1

mean, how hard is it to use your handy-dandy virtual terminal switcher (CTRL-ALT-RIGHT_ARROW), and start up another X display?

And how hard is it for the new user to ctrl+alt+left_arrow back to your display, and mess about with all your programs? Face it, Linux just can't compete with a feature like this.
Re:Why? by Thorin_ · 2001-10-25 04:06 · Score: 1

Well according to the cnn article The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive. Aparently now it will only crash once an hour and you are even allowed to delete things from your hard drive. This is an amazing technological feat for microsoft, before I always had to reformat my hard drive when it got full.
Re:Why? by damiam · 2001-10-25 04:32 · Score: 1

What kind of Linux do you use? Every Linux distro I've ever seen does an automatic fsck if it's necessary. Besides, that'll be irrelevant when we move to ext3/ReiserFS.

--
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Re:Why? by the_2nd_coming · 2001-10-25 04:34 · Score: 2

would you call your self the normal Joe Six-pack?
didn't think so

--

I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Re:Why? by damiam · 2001-10-25 04:34 · Score: 1

Which is why you select "Lock Screen" from your GNOME menu before you switch desktops.

--
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Re:Why? by wtmcgee · 2001-10-25 04:43 · Score: 1

you probablly shouldnt. most of the improvements are just to get the average user over to the NT side of the windows world.

i use 2000 as well, and actually even got in on that preview program MS had earlier this summer. while i think its a solid OS, with a lot of good improvements, it didnt do much to sway me from getting rid of 2000.

if you use 98 or ME, or have problems with 2k, then i do reccomend making the jump to XP.

--
*** For a better tommorow, change your life today ***
Re:Why? by DuctTape · 2001-10-25 04:43 · Score: 1

It means: fork over the money, buster! Do your part for America! Dammit, get with the program!
Sheesh, some people just don't get it....

--
Is this thing on? Hello?
Re:Why? by aozilla · 2001-10-25 04:44 · Score: 1

RedHat 7.1. And it tries an automatic fsck, but that fails because there are errors which cannot be fixed except through a manual fsck. I suspect bugs in the ext2 code (perhaps it isn't handling my 39 gig partition well), and I've turned on "panic on error detection" but so far I've not gotten any panics. Could be hardware related but I would think that bad blocks would be detected somewhere.

I want to give my mother Linux, but so far I've only managed to move her off of Macintosh and onto Win2k. And she hasn't called me for help yet (although my father who uses 98 just called me yesterday because his audio stopped working). Anyway, this is how I gauge the potential success of linux. Until I can get my parents using it, I don't think it's ready for the mass public.

--
ok then your [sic] infringing on my copyright! Could you as [sic] me next time before STEALING my comments for your own?
Re:Why? by clinko · 2001-10-25 04:46 · Score: 2

first off. XP does allow you to log onto domains. Also, it adds tons of features that win2k doesn't have.

It has the backup/restore that winmeME has. Terminal server is built in. A lot of family safety features are added too. Windows update is done automatically. CD-R software is built in. So is zip functionality. And it's all done really nicely.

Don't knock this until you try it...

This won't be modded up though. You know why.
Re:Why? by i_am_nitrogen · 2001-10-25 04:50 · Score: 1

Well, I have my sister using Linux... If you use ext3, or xfs, or ReiserFS (I'd recommend xfs, although I haven't used it. I've used reiserfs extensively, and it's pretty nice by now) you don't even have to worry about fsck, except with ext3 sometimes, but not nearly as often. Plus, xfs and ReiserFS are supposed to yield significantly increased access times.

--
A solution to the problem with music today
Re:Why? by swright · 2001-10-25 04:53 · Score: 1

Didnt they say this about Win2K as well at the beginning....
Re:Why? by Anne_Nonymous · 2001-10-25 04:54 · Score: 1

>> What does XP offer me over and above my current win2k?

It offers you the *privilege* of getting a new machine. I have not had to bootleg software yet, but if I'm to avoid the privacy implications of XP, I may just have to resort to it next time I order a machine.
Re:Why? by ckaminski · 2001-10-25 05:04 · Score: 1

Actually, this feature has existed in Windows NT since 3.51 (publicly), and probably since it's creation at 3.1.

Windows NT has always been SORT OF multiuser. It was just not fully implemented.

I won't go into the whole terminal server argument, or multiple windowing desktops ala X, but Windows has DEFINITELY had a "su" capability for a good 5 or 6 years now.

-Chris
Re:Why? by Graspee_Leemoor · 2001-10-25 05:06 · Score: 1

hahha this is funny- I was telling everyone that win2k was stable about the time it was released (having used the betas a hell of a lot) and everyone was like "Blue screens! Blue screens! Linux is uber-rooly". Only now are a lot of people agreeing with me.

graspee
Re:Why? by Howie · 2001-10-25 05:12 · Score: 1

I only mentioned linux since your post suggested that you are currently running on x86 boxes and OSX seemed an even bigger step - I wouldn't (and don't) use linux as a desktop OS right now. I suspect I might with StarOffice 6 - it's mostly UI things that put me off SO5.

--
"don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
Re:Why? by Graspee_Leemoor · 2001-10-25 05:14 · Score: 1

Actually several manufacturers are now doing batches of say 100 NICS all with the same MAC address because they are running out of them.

Also, in reply to the parent's moan about registration, as I mentioned above, I have swapped the cpu, ram and mb on a machine and not had to re-register it- just a "repair" install. Basically all that was the same about the machine was the NIC, GFX, sound and drives.

graspee
Re:Why? by Null_Packet · 2001-10-25 05:35 · Score: 1

The offerings of XP Pro (Home is for non-tech people who will never join a domain, etc) are scattered and may or may not justify the upgrade.

There are some cool features, such as:
1.) They have a display technology for laptops that helps improve LCD quality
2.) STA (Spanning Tree Architecture) that lets you use your pc as a bridge (Ethernet to Wireless for example), but beware- it causes Cisco switches without a 2 year old patch to hang- I think one of the first XP Stories here on /. covered this (it was a MS beta tester at Xerox)
3.) Mild speed improvements
4.) MY personal favorite- you can terminal service into your dektop and get redirected drives, printers, etc. You can only connect with other windows clients using the Terminal Service client, but this feature just plain rocks.

Win2k is really quite nice; XP Pro is mildly better. Readers of Slashdot who use Windows will probably want to steer clear of Home Edition.
Re:Why? by Shanep · 2001-10-25 05:56 · Score: 1

What are the chances of getting a NIC with a duped MAC and how usefull would it be to you? I'd rather just use a BSD or Linux than consider having a duped NIC lucky. ; )

I know there are cards that can have their MAC address configured, but again, how usefull are 2 or more NICs with the same MAC address? Too much trouble to go to, making sure they're well enough away from each other, etc just to get some free XP : )

I personally hope that this harms M$ more than they thought it would help them.

--
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
Re:Why? by Spy+Hunter · 2001-10-25 06:05 · Score: 2
After actually using XP, I have to say that MS did more than make their interface candy-colored: They actually improved its usability at the same time. Here are some of the improvements I've noticed:
- The new window min/max/close buttons are twice the size of the old ones, making them MUCH easier and faster to hit with the mouse. I'm surprised how much I like this.
- The start button actually extends all the way to the bottom-left of the screen, finally obeying Fitt's law. You can hit it much faster now.
- The taskbar buttons likewise extend all the way to the bottom of the screen, making it faster to hit them.
- An auto-hidden taskbar always pops up immediately instead of sliding for faster access.
- Toolbars are locked into place until you want to customize them, preventing you from accidentally grabbing them and moving them when you don't want to, and freeing up the screen space that the resize handles used to take up.
- The system tray hides unused icons for much much less clutter.
Some other things about XP:
- The "Help and Support center" is quite useful. Yesterday I learned all about the new features of the command shell using it (tab completion woohoo!). It has a nice batch file command reference, and everything is well-written. It's almost as good as having man pages for everything.
- The new start menu takes some getting used to, but it is at least no worse than the old one. I like the way it presents you with your six most commonly used applications (but I don't like how it gives IE and Outlook preferential treatment at the top).
--
main(c,r){for(r=32;r;) printf(++c>31?c=!r--,"\n":c<r?" ":~c&r?" `":" #");}
Re:Why? by unapersson · 2001-10-25 06:22 · Score: 1

Of course it can, that's what xlock is for. The only way to mess with programs on that display is to log in using the correct password.
Re:Why? by Asgard · 2001-10-25 06:36 · Score: 1

You have to have some application understanding to handle things like FTP (active mode), otherwise the other ports don't get opened.
Re:Why? by hammock · 2001-10-25 06:56 · Score: 1

For example, my friend put 512mb of RAM in his system (since it's like $30 per 256meg stick!) and used XP's ability to "cache the OS and critical DLL's" into memory.

Where in XP do you do this? I can't seem to find it. If this keeps up I'm going to have to go back to 2000, as there are more reasons to not use XP than there are to use it.
Re:Why? by Red+Avenger · 2001-10-25 07:07 · Score: 1

Thats a blatant lie if I have ever heard one.

Lets see XP Pro includes:
Everything you got in Win2K +
Remote Desktop
Remote Assistance
WMP 8
Zip Utility
Windows Messenger
Integrated CD-Burner Software
Integrated Firewall
Integrated NAT
Updated Shell
System Restore
Credential Manager
etc etc etc...

I think I have made my point.
Re:Why? by Andrewkov · 2001-10-25 07:12 · Score: 2

I'm not a network expert, but I believe if you have 2 NIC's with the same MAC Address, it will confuse your routers. I guess this applies more to large WANs than home users, but in any case, no two devices on any network should have the same MAC.
Re:Why? by MrBogus · 2001-10-25 07:21 · Score: 1

On the other hand (at least with the beta I tried), the theme feature removed your ability to set custom fonts and colors, a feature which had always existed in Windows.

That made it a bit annoying to work with -- the UI was designed to be "fun" and distracting, just that I couldn't make un-distracting. Overall, far less usable. So I had to turn it off and go with the W2K shell.

--

When I hear the word 'innovation', I reach for my pistol.
Re:Why? by joshki · 2001-10-25 07:43 · Score: 1

No -- I'm not. BUT... that was my point. it makes life easier for me, I'm sure that it will for others as well. And just think what a boon it will be for tech support people. "hi, I installed the pirated cd of whatever that I got from my friend, and now my system doesn't work!! what do I do??" Tech: system restore.... five minutes and he's done, has them off the phone and goes on to other calls...

--
I do not read or respond to AC's. If you want a discussion, log in. Otherwise, don't waste your time.
Re:Why? by damiam · 2001-10-25 08:06 · Score: 1

Yup, significantly increased access times are what I've always wanted in a filesystem.

--
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Re:Why? by clinko · 2001-10-25 08:23 · Score: 1

changes automatically.

AUTO

plus, that notification thingy was an update in itself
Re:Why? by i_am_nitrogen · 2001-10-25 08:38 · Score: 1

I mean decreased access times...
Increased SPEED.

--
A solution to the problem with music today
Re:Why? by asincero · 2001-10-25 08:48 · Score: 1

> Gee, perhaps because that was what the guy
> asked?!

Man, what in the blue hell are you talking about? You were the one who said that WinXP Home wasn't an upgrade to Win2k and that you "actually get less with XP" because of that. Which is logical: since WinXP Home is not an upgrade to Win2k it would make sense that you might "get less". Hence the "no shit Sherlock" from me.

Who is this other guy you are referring to?

At any rate, at the time of this writing your post has been modded down to "Troll" as it should be, thus renewing my faith in the Slashdot moderation system.

Well, not really ....

- Arcadio
Re:Why? by valenti · 2001-10-25 09:02 · Score: 1

Do you have any references to this?

"Actually several manufacturers are now doing batches of say 100 NICS all with the same MAC address because they are running out of them. "

I'm pretty sure it messes up a LAN to have duplicate MAC addresses on it. Also some places base their security on MAC addrs, probably not a good idea, but this would totally screw that up.

Oh, I have heard of vendors accidently duplicating MAC addresses (years ago).
Re:Why? by itachi · 2001-10-25 10:28 · Score: 1

All in all, it's not a bad upgrade. It's a great upgrade if you had a chance to use Mac OS X 10.1 and wished you owned a Mac. :P

Yeah, but you don't get a BSD system and a shell on XP... If I'm stuck with windows, I'll take 2k. Rebooting once a week is close enough to what a real operating system can do, and it'll run quake 3. For my money, though, it's all about OS X.

itachi
Re:Why? by tshak · 2001-10-25 11:53 · Score: 1

He said it's in the "tweak-xp" utility of all places.

--

There is no longer anything that can be done with computers that is nontrivial and clearly legal. -- Paul Phillips
Re:Why? by Shanep · 2001-10-25 14:00 · Score: 1

Yeah, that's what I was getting at.

--
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
Re:Why? by be-fan · 2001-10-25 14:17 · Score: 2

Of course XP has nothing to do with 95, the point is that Microsoft has been singing the "more reliable, more stable" song since 95 was released.
>>>>>>>>>>>>&g t;
The delivered it with NT4.

They've yet to deliver on that promise fully, though you could make a case for NT/2000 in a server environment I suppose.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
Nobody in their right mind uses Windows on a server. Windows is for desktop machines, UNIX is for server machines. They are both improving on each other's areas, but Windows is still a stronger desktop machine that *NIX.

--
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...
Re:Why? by clinko · 2001-10-25 15:05 · Score: 2

by default winxp has "Automatic Updates" enabled in the system properties.

It has 3 options:

1. download automatically and notify when downloaded *NOT INSTALLED* (DEFAULT)

2. Notify before updated

3. no update
Re:Why? by Rogerborg · 2001-10-25 21:33 · Score: 2
- - 24-Oct-2001; the day I metamodded 10 decent comments that had all been modded Off Topic, Flamebait or Troll.
  A bit off-topic, but I think mark more than half of the moderations as unfair, it silently discards your selections and subtracts a couple points of karma.
Oh, I know. The primary function of the moderation and karma system is to ensure conformance with the majority /. attitudes. Unpopular but insightful posts might stil get modded up, but the modders get punished in the metamodding. How delightful.
--
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Re:Why? by zeno_2 · 2001-10-26 02:03 · Score: 1

Actually they are calling it a Joined network, and an Unjoined network. With Winxp Pro, you can join a Joined network (Domain) or an Unjoined network (peer to peer) With Xp Home, you can only go to an Unjoined network.
Re:Why? by Shanep · 2001-10-26 13:03 · Score: 1

I'm pretty sure it messes up a LAN to have duplicate MAC addresses on it.

It does. Duped MAC addresses serviced by the same router are going to cause problems for those devices.

Also some places base their security on MAC addrs, probably not a good idea,

I took care of a site with DEC hubs that allowed you to use a particular MAC address to be a form of 'authentication' for a particular hub port. If someone else plugged their PC into that port, the hub would disable the port, assuming they did'nt change the MAC address on their card.

Oh, I have heard of vendors accidently duplicating MAC addresses (years ago).

I don't know about that 100 figure, but I have heard of some dodgy no-name cards from Taiwan that have MACs that are not unique.

Me thinks that they were no mistake. ; ) They just want to churn out $20 10/100 cards en mass, but don't have the vendor range of MAC's to do it. Or worse, any vendor range of MAC addresses at all.

No two of their cards have a duped MAC though. Their theory is, what are the chances of a customer purchasing a card from us with the same MAC of another device on their network. The MAC is 48bit so there are a fair few to choose from. ; )

--
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?

More cash for useless features by haplo21112 · 2001-10-25 01:41 · Score: 3, Insightful

Well here we go, Microsoft, says give us more money, to upgrade your OS, cause we have 10,000 new features(that are really enhancements to old ones, aka fixes)...and of course if you don't we are gonna drop support for the old OS anyway so your gonna have to eventually...even now the manuals for supporting 98,ME,2000 are being destroyed at our support centers, why would anyone need those when we have this spiffy new thing.

--
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.

Re:More cash for useless features by sid_vicious · 2001-10-25 01:56 · Score: 2

I don't know if anybody here remembers it, but...

When Windows for Workgroups came out (believe it was "Windows 3.11"), it was a bit ahead of its time. It had support for networking that most users - home and office - simply couldn't take advantage of, because networking hardware was still expensive.

People in the press started calling it "Windows for Warehouses" because Bill & Co. were having such a hard time moving any copies of it.

Bottom line is, people won't pay for new features they don't need, especially when many of us have *finally* stabalized our current Windows version. I predict this will be another "Windows for Warehouses".

--
If it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet.
Re:More cash for useless features by NineNine · 2001-10-25 02:02 · Score: 1

This isn't just more enhancements. XP/W2K is 100% different from Win 95. Completely different OS. Read a bit before trolling, please.
Re:More cash for useless features by haplo21112 · 2001-10-25 02:17 · Score: 2

Um,
Actually I am very much in the know, my company has been very much involved in the Betas. You will notice that my mail said nothing about 95, yes this is a significant upgrade from 95...but its not that great of a leap from 98,ME, or 2000...some basic functionality, more bells and whistles that should have been offered as Free service packs, or perhaps a 29.99 Update CD to 2000, and maybe 49.99 Update to 98/ME.

--
Power Corrupts,Absolute Power Corrupts Absolutely, leaving one person(group)in charge is absolutely corrupt.
Re:More cash for useless features by NineNine · 2001-10-25 02:47 · Score: 1

How can you be "in the know" if you say that it's not a great leap from Win 98 or ME? Are you talking about end user functionality? I don't want to get into a pissing contest. But you don't think that from going from a DOS-based GUI to an NT kernel is "a great leap"? That's like saying that that KDE and Windows 95 are almost the same because they look similar...
Re:More cash for useless features by dattaway · 2001-10-25 06:01 · Score: 2

It had support for networking that most users

It sure did. Only if you downloaded third party software, such as Trumpet Winsock so one could use TCPIP to connect to the internet. Microsoft was busy trying to market their own propreitary networking service (MSN) at the time.
Re:More cash for useless features by hardburn · 2001-10-25 06:56 · Score: 1

Only if you downloaded third party software, such as Trumpet Winsock . . .

That was true of Win3.1 but not WfW3.11 (Windows for Workgroups 3.11). MSN didn't come up until Win95, some time after WfW (that was a long time ago, I don't remember exactly how long after).

--
Not a typewriter

Great... just great.... by mortonda · 2001-10-25 01:41 · Score: 1

One more tree of FAQ's to add to the tech support knowledge base... As a bunch of L-Users upgrade for no reason at all. *sigh*

At least, they can't mispronounce this one as easily (Windows me, kill me!)

I'll wait.... by Bubblesculpter · 2001-10-25 01:41 · Score: 2, Redundant

Why spend the $$$ to get 'free applications' that I already have?
Now you need to replace your old dos and 9x apps...
You get IE 6, which is already free
You get 'reduced desktop clutter' -- as if you can't clear your desktop already?
'bubbly buttons' - will that speed up my productivity?

Though I know there are things that have been improved over 2K, etc, I'll still wait a while. Need to make let a couple service packs hit first...

--
www.Beyond7.com Insane modern art water sculpture.

Re:I'll wait.... by alen · 2001-10-25 01:46 · Score: 2

Actually a game I have that won't run in W2K will run on XP.
Re:I'll wait.... by Defiler · 2001-10-25 01:58 · Score: 1

Which?
Re:I'll wait.... by Arandir · 2001-10-25 07:06 · Score: 2

You should see the desktops of my coworkers.

A friend of mine who uses KDE has the motto "what, my desktop isn't my home directory!"

One of my coworkers is using Windowmaker with 100 docked app icons.

I don't think desktop clutter is confined to the Windows lusers.

--
A Government Is a Body of People, Usually Notably Ungoverned

Same thing, only different by Dead+Penis+Bird · 2001-10-25 01:41 · Score: 1

But critics said behind the software's pretty face is a technology core very similar to that many companies are already using.

Yup. Just a new look to an old OS. I've seen it in demos. Most functionality seems similar to earlier releases.

It's just like putting fancy new clothes on an old hobo.

--

If I weren't nailed to the penis, I'd be pushing up the daisies!

Re:Same thing, only different by Xawen · 2001-10-25 01:57 · Score: 1

WHAT?!?! You mean to tell me that you don't see any improvement over plain old X with Gnome or KDE? I mean, patching 8 libs together to get one program to compile is fun and all, but I think I'll go with a defined environment....
Re:Same thing, only different by Shanep · 2001-10-25 02:50 · Score: 1

I mean, patching 8 libs together to get one program to compile is fun and all, but I think I'll go with a defined environment....

You're going to Deb-E-An?

Or will you be going....

cd /usr/ports/wizbang/app
make && make install ???

Ahh, to hell with it! Just go with the company that makes you feel nice and comfortable with a pretty install and ease of use as long as you pay them big bucks, while their OS tick tick tick ticks... with it's security holes and legacy bugs.

Are you a RedHat user who thinks Linux is RedHat is Linux?

--
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?

XP matters because... by ergo98 · 2001-10-25 01:41 · Score: 2, Informative

Finally it's bringing the masses to a reliable operating system, and truly this is closing the window for Linux. There are lots of people who truly and rightfully got thoroughly upset when Windows 95/98/98SE/ME took a dump because they opened explorer before the soundblaster drivers had settled in, or because they made the mistake of alt-tabbing between apps a few too many times, and these were the people who were ripe for picking for conversion to the Linux camp. However how many people do you hear complaing regarding the quality of Windows 2000 (on which XP is based)? I have 2000 and I have never, since I first installed one of the RCs many moons back, got a BSOD. Ever. There are nuisances such as the fact that explorer.exe locks directories forcing you to wait several hours to delete them if you made the mistake of navigating into them, and that it itself occasionally dies, but they are trivial in the grand scheme of things.

Anyways I'll probably keep going with Windows 2000 as there is no redeeming factor for me to upgrade to XP from this, but for everyone using one of the 16/32 OS', it can't said with enough emphasis that you really don't realize how much shit that you're unnecessarily putting up with.

Re:XP matters because... by Delirium+Tremens · 2001-10-25 01:53 · Score: 1

I have 2000 and I have never, since I first installed one of the RCs many moons back, got a BSOD.
I must say you are a lucky one. I am crashing my Win2000 more than my old NT4 SP3 at work. I am crashing at least once every two weeks. No BSOD, but the computer locking down and freezing. Only solution is the power button, which unlocks everything for half a second before forcing an emergency HALT (he, I pushed the button, right?). Stupid system.
Re:XP matters because... by dragons_flight · 2001-10-25 01:56 · Score: 2

Exactly why at least one of the Win98 or ME systems sitting around here will be getting an upgrade.
Re:XP matters because... by ergo98 · 2001-10-25 02:00 · Score: 1

While this excuse is used too often, I would suspect that you have a problem in your BIOS and/or kernel level drivers (hehe...do you have an ATi videocard? Seriously). I'm running a fairly generic system: Pentium III, Geforce 2, etc., as my dev PC and it has never locked or crashed, nor have my test PCs.

I want to get on of the new Athlon XPs but I suspect that I'd have to get a little more use to locking/crashing due to the instability of some of the Athlon support chipsets.
Re:XP matters because... by ergo98 · 2001-10-25 02:14 · Score: 1

No one wishes that that's the case, however strategically it is simple reality: When the pickings were brutally easy in the 95/98/98SE/Me days (that just came to a close) Linux had some chance of making inroads on the desktop because the competitors were such trash, however XP is a pretty formidable system, built on an extremely stable and well-tested core, so if Linux couldn't make serious inroads into the desktop market when the competitors were so weak, how well do you think it'll do now?
Re:XP matters because... by the_2nd_coming · 2001-10-25 02:28 · Score: 2

only if you get a VIA chipset, most others are pretty good.

--

I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Re:XP matters because... by the_2nd_coming · 2001-10-25 02:30 · Score: 2

yes but XP replaced the stability proble with a price/privacy probelm...and who cares any how...Linux will keep going MS will keep going as far as the DoJ will let them.....people will eventualy decide what to do...lots of good things are occuring in the Linux world, some bad things are happening in the Windows world...only time will tell.

--

I am the Alpha and the Omega-3
Re:XP matters because... by Necron69 · 2001-10-25 03:21 · Score: 1

I have an ASUS board with a Via KT133 chipset in my home PC. I tried out WinXP and it crashed like crazy on this board, until I remembered to update my BIOS. No crashes for several days now, and Quake III works on it too. :)

If you are going to upgrade, do the obvious thing and update all your BIOS, firmware, etc., first.

As an aside, I've had an HP OmniBook 6000 with Win2k on it since June. Note a single BSOD yet.

- Necron69
Re:XP matters because... by zenyu · 2001-10-25 03:31 · Score: 1

However how many people do you hear complaing regarding the quality of Windows 2000 (on which XP is based)? I have 2000 and I have never, since I first installed one of the RCs many moons back, got a BSOD.

I haven't either, I think they got rid of the graphic. I've had it freeze up on me every day that I've used it (I use it about once every two weeks). Most of the time it's due to the nVidia drivers or DirectX (I think). It's a little more stable than NT 4.0, but I don't know anyone that uses Windows for serious work so it's good for bathroom brakes. Well aside from some stock brokers, but they are fired for installing software on their boxen.

PS Microsoft sent a couple evengelists to my lab Monday. They've been trying to get our sysAdmin to install XP. He left early that day for Amsterdam. They didn't think it was as funny as I did.
Re:XP matters because... by Jason+Earl · 2001-10-25 04:59 · Score: 2

This isn't closing a door for Linux. It has been possible to get a stable Windows OS for years, people just didn't care. Windows 9X was "good enough" and it was less expensive. Most folks simply weren't willing to pay an extra $100 for stability. Only geeks were willing to switch operating systems for stability. Normal people aren't going to switch until they can buy a computer preloaded with Linux that does everything they need in a computer and costs less than an identical computer running Windows.
For Joe Sixpack it's all about being "good enough" at the lowest price.
Which is why they certainly aren't going to rush out and buy a computer with Windows XP. Sure, some folks have been waiting around for the right time to upgrade, and so some computers will get bought. However, Microsoft will be lucky if PC sales don't continue their precipitous decline. Sales certainly aren't going back to their heyday levels anytime soon.
Which means that prices will continue to drop, and OEMs will continue to try and find some way to get rid of that most expensive of all components, Windows. At the very least they are going to consider bundling StarOffice for Windows. That would raise the total value of their system without raising their price. Once normal people start using StarOffice, and they will eventually, then Linux on the desktop gets that much closer. In the meantime, it's not like Linux is going away.
Microsoft could easily counteract this if they weren't too busy trying to cram stuff their customers don't want into these new versions. None of Microsoft's customers want things like digital rights management or the new activation "feature." Even worse, Microsoft is making it clear that third party developers are not welcome. Add personal firewalls, CD burning software , remote control software, etc. to the list of software products that now have no chance of competing against Microsoft. Perhaps your industry is next. Pundits are quick to point out that it is impossible to make money writing software for Linux, but it would appear that this is increasingly the case for software in general. Unless you are Microsoft, forget about writing desktop software. Third party developers have been a big part of Microsoft's success, but more and more of these folks are starting to take a look at what supporting the Penguin would entail.
In the end Microsoft can't compete against everyone. Right now Microsoft is the lesser of two evils for Windows developers, and they are a necessary evil for the OEMs, but Linux isn't in a hurry. Eventually the sheer value of what it brings to the table (for free) will be too much for these groups to overlook. In the meantime there are plenty of folks that are quite pleased with it. One thing is certain, no matter how cool Windows XP might be, it isn't going to cause the hordes of Linux developers to jump ship.
Re:XP matters because... by Tyndareos · 2001-10-25 05:08 · Score: 1

Finally it's bringing the masses to a reliable operating system, and truly this is closing the window for Linux.

You're kidding, right? People weren't mass-converting from Windows to Linux before because of MS instability. Change just takes time, but eventually free (as in beer) software will always prevail over substantially more expensive software if both offer roughly the same.

Not a single monopoly/regime/government of totalitarian nature in the history of mankind has existed forever. Microsoft days will once be over and that goes just as well for Linux, but there's good hope that it's spirit will continue to live because people have (eventually) always preferred freedom over anything else that excludes freedom.
Re:XP matters because... by Jason+Earl · 2001-10-25 06:58 · Score: 2

You need to get yourself a login so that someone can mod you up. I definitely agree with you when you say that Windows has gotten better. The home user is certainly getting a lot more bang for their buck with Windows XP than they did with Windows ME, and that's good. Stability is way up, functionality is way up, and price remains about the same.
That's all good.
I personally don't believe that Microsoft has done enough to convince consumers to throw out their old computer, and they certainly aren't going to plunk down $200 for the retail version of the OS. In fact, some of the new features to Windows XP are downright anti-consumer. If Microsoft keeps that up it is likely to be a big help for Linux. The days are over when Microsoft can pretend that Linux is completely useless as a desktop OS. If they squeeze their customers too tight, their customers will migrate away.
That's why Linux is good news for consumers whether or not you like Windows. Linux forces Microsoft to actually compete.
And while Microsoft has the lead in all three of your categories, apps, interface, and hardware support, they certainly don't have the commanding lead that they had 4 years ago, and Linux has the trump card of being a lot less expensive.
I recently built myself a new machine and I was absolutely surprised at how much hardware I could get for $450. Plunking down $200 for an operating system to run on that $50 machine is ridiculous. Especially since Windows, while it has gotten better since Windows 95, is almost completely useless with just an OS. With Linux, an extra $20 bucks gets you a couple of CDs with more useful software than you can shake a stick at, including development tools that would be downright expensive to replace with commercial tools.
And that's just for one computer. Imagine what Michael Dell must think every time he thinks about how much software costs him per machine. Even worse, he has to put up with Microsoft telling him what he can and can't do with that software. It is rapidly getting to the point where the cost of Microsoft software is a serious impediment to hardware sales.
Not that it matters with Windows XP. Microsoft isn't competing with Linux at this point. It is competing with Windows 98. If they can't convince consumers to buy new computers then Microsoft is just as cooked as if everyone had switched to Linux. Just what exactly is Microsoft going to have to give away to get folks to upgrade next time?
And as for .NET, the only really interesting part of that is Passport, and there is no way that is going to fly. First of all AOL is never going to support it (and, in fact, they will be actively opposing it with their own standard). A web site would have to be suicidal to require a technology that excluded AOL. Not to mention all of those folks who don't use Hotmail, and who aren't planning on upgrading to Windows XP.
.NET will be gangbusters on Microsoft sites, but those businesses with a lot of time and effort in their customer databases (like your bank) aren't likely to turn over their crown jewels. And Microsoft's competitors aren't likely to use it either, and nowadays it seems like Microsoft is competing against nearly everyone. This is especially true the closer Microsoft gets to being a "content provider."
Can you honestly show me a single proposed .NET service that you would pay money for?

What does XP stand for? by Anonymous Coward · 2001-10-25 01:42 · Score: 1, Funny

Does XP stand for eXtented Payments?

"Bill, is that a gun in your pocket, or are you just happy to see me?"

Re:What does XP stand for? by windi · 2001-10-25 01:53 · Score: 3, Interesting

AFAIK, XP stands for the 2 greek letters pronounced khai and rho.

Khai-Rho == Cairo, IIRC, the codename MS used for the first 32bit Windows
Re:What does XP stand for? by ThePilgrim · 2001-10-25 02:04 · Score: 1

XP = eXtra Pricy
= eXtra Precaursions neaded
= eXpencive Pap
= Xylaphone Player
= eXtra Pritty
= eXpect more Piracy
= eXtra Pain

--
Wouldn't it be nice if schools got all the money they wanted and the army had to hold jumble sales for guns
Re:What does XP stand for? by i_am_nitrogen · 2001-10-25 02:08 · Score: 1

Actually, I believe Memphis or Chicago (one of the two) was the codename for Windows 95, but you could be referring to Win32s, so I dunno. XP is also supposed to stand for eXPerience in Windows' case, or eXtended Performance in the case of the Athlon XP. But I'd never heard the Cairo thing before.

--
A solution to the problem with music today
Re:What does XP stand for? by rapett0 · 2001-10-25 02:09 · Score: 1

You mean the cross used my Jesus' intial soldiers in Rome in the early part of the first few centuries after his supposed death and cruxificion?
Re:What does XP stand for? by i_am_nitrogen · 2001-10-25 02:11 · Score: 1

...eXtacy Popper...

Kids, don't do drugs. Teens, don't do drugs. Parents, don't let your kids do drugs. What message is the media trying to send?

--
A solution to the problem with music today
Re:What does XP stand for? by ch-chuck · 2001-10-25 02:11 · Score: 1

Cairo

Hey, this is another chance to plug my Bill Gates - Alfred E. Neuman connection page: http://www.widomaker.com/~cswiger/bgisaen.html from "Exploring Cairo" in an old NT Magazine issue.

--
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }
Re:What does XP stand for? by triskadekta · 2001-10-25 02:17 · Score: 1

XP - eXtend Protect (the M$ monopoly that is :-)
Re:What does XP stand for? by barneyfoo · 2001-10-25 02:18 · Score: 1, Troll

That is the lamest justification I've ever heard. Do something useful with your life. Instead of trying to backwards-apply a superficial name tag to some long-forgotten code-word, why dont you try to bring down the microsoft establishment by pointing out how gay and bloated windowsXP is, and how it improves nothing over win2k except some gay ass direct 3d. Excuse me, but that's what I have a PS2 for. Jesus christ, some people are so dense.
Re:What does XP stand for? by Howie · 2001-10-25 02:20 · Score: 1

Win95 was Chicago (it's still mentioned in the driver .inf files in places)

Cairo was originally (IIRC) the all-new-better-than-ever NT when 3.1 was around, which didn't really happen, and became NT 4.

--
"don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
Re:What does XP stand for? by DrSkwid · 2001-10-25 02:35 · Score: 1

that only adult orphans should take drugs

--
There are places where the networks are not touching,and there are places where they are-Boeing's Lori Gunter
Re:What does XP stand for? by exor · 2001-10-25 02:37 · Score: 2, Funny

= Expect Problems
=
Re:What does XP stand for? by Your+Pal+Dave · 2001-10-25 02:38 · Score: 1

It doesn't stand for anything... It's an emoticon!
Re:What does XP stand for? by flegged · 2001-10-25 03:00 · Score: 1

Now that you mention it, it kinda does look like someone screwing up their eyes and sticking their tongue out at you... Not sure what to read into that though..

--

"I think he was truly surprised at how little I cared about how big a market the Mac had" - Linus on Jobs
Re:What does XP stand for? by Strangely+Unbiased · 2001-10-25 03:02 · Score: 1

AFAIK, XP stands for the 2 greek letters pronounced khai and rho.

Ah,no. R is rho, but X is pronounced 'Heee'.

--

There is no such thing as 'world peace'.
Re:What does XP stand for? by Dun+Malg · 2001-10-25 03:04 · Score: 1

Why don't you learn that using "gay" as a pejorative makes you sound like a queer-hatin' cracker moron.

--
If a job's not worth doing, it's not worth doing right.
Re:What does XP stand for? by barneyfoo · 2001-10-25 03:17 · Score: 1

since when does gay mean homosexual?

I use it to mean happy.

Being nonsensically happy is a negative. And I do not hate queers. In fact, my daddy is queer. So is my brother and mom. I grew up in a very tolerant family.
Re:What does XP stand for? by Jaysyn · 2001-10-25 03:28 · Score: 1

I bet the video of THAT conception is very humorus at least...

Jaysyn

--
There is a war going on for your mind.
Re:What does XP stand for? by i_am_nitrogen · 2001-10-25 03:31 · Score: 1

There is no X in the greek alphabet. There are 23 letters, alpha-omega. Alpha transliterates to the latin A, and Omega transliterates to the latin W. X falls beyond the greek alphabet, and if XP really does mean Khai-Rho, then it would probably be a character that looks similar to X, but is actually earlier in the alphabet.

--
A solution to the problem with music today
Re:What does XP stand for? by i_am_nitrogen · 2001-10-25 03:34 · Score: 2, Interesting

Stupid slashdot formkeys error... This is the second time posting this. Why am I making it a habit to select all text and Ctrl-Copy every time I post?
There is no X in the Greek alphabet. It starts with Alpha and ends with Omega, 23 letters. Alpha corresponds to the Latin A, and Omega corresponds to the Latin W. X falls beyond the Greek alphabet for transliteration. If XP really does mean "Cairo," then it's probably based on similar appearance to the Greek letter khai, rather than letter order. Could someone please describe what a khai looks like?

--
A solution to the problem with music today
Re:What does XP stand for? by Telek · 2001-10-25 03:44 · Score: 2

Cairo, IIRC, the codename MS used for the first 32bit Windows

Cute, but I'm almost certain that it was CHICAGO, not Cairo.

--

If God gave us curiosity
Re:What does XP stand for? by inc0gnito · 2001-10-25 03:47 · Score: 1

XP = Extra Power... as in "She can't handle any more Captain!"
Re:What does XP stand for? by wolf- · 2001-10-25 04:02 · Score: 1

Yup, I hear you. I'm tired of the problems.
Waiting the 20 seconds as punishment for being a fast typer.
Re-entering text into a blasted form, because someones code is buggy.

Blah.

--
----- LoboSoft specializes in Digital Language Lab
Re:What does XP stand for? by perky · 2001-10-25 04:15 · Score: 2, Interesting

Could someone please describe what a khai looks like?

an 'X',(but with curley bits) otherwise he wouldn't have said what he did. The transliteration isn't an ordered 1-1 mapping of the first 23 characters.

--
"The new wave is not value-added; it's garbage-subtracted" - Esther Dyson, Dec 1994
Re:What does XP stand for? by hokanomono · 2001-10-25 04:30 · Score: 1

AFAIK, XP stands for the 2 greek letters pronounced khai and rho.

I've never heard of greek letter "khai". X rather looks like a \Chi and it's pronounced like the X in \TeX. There is no similarity to "khai".

What do the MS drones say when they advertise XP? Do they say ex-pee or do they say \Chi\iota\rho\omega?

--
This sig is a true statement, but I cannot prove it.
Re:What does XP stand for? by RogerWilco · 2001-10-25 04:37 · Score: 1

You wrote:
>There is no X in the Greek alphabet. -snip- Could >someone please describe what a khai looks like?
The Greek Alphabet:
http://www.december.com/html/spec/greek.html
If you tke the capital letters for Chi and Ro
you get XP, which also stands for Christ
"Christos" in Greek (Chi ro iota sigma tau omicon sigma)
ChiRo indeed resembles Cairo somewhat.

hope that helps.

--
RogerWilco the Adventurous Janitor
Re:What does XP stand for? by i_am_nitrogen · 2001-10-25 05:03 · Score: 1

Aah, thanks. I had been misinformed. Those blasphemous tubs of lard!!! Insulting Christians thusly... ;p I'm sure that these are all just coincidences, not some big CEO (or one of his subordinates) fancying himself the supreme ruler of the universe...

--
A solution to the problem with music today
Re:What does XP stand for? by bitsmart · 2001-10-25 05:09 · Score: 1

I'll tell ya one thing, it sure doesn't stand for Crash-Proof.
Re:What does XP stand for? by spectro · 2001-10-25 05:12 · Score: 1

A Microsoft guy who gave us an ASP.NET introduction said it stands for "eXPerience".

--
HTML is obsolete. It's time for a new, simpler and richer markup language.
Re:What does XP stand for? by jcast · 2001-10-25 05:43 · Score: 1

Chicago=Win95

Cairo=WinNT 4 (at least originally)

FYI, Win95 was not really 32 bit, nor was it the first 32 bit Windows--that was WinNT 3.1. Cairo was supposed to be the first decent 32 bit Windows (for sufficiently small (but non-zero) values of decent).

I have no idea why I'm posting this, though.

--
There are reasons why democracy does not work nearly as well as capitalism.
-- David D. Friedman
Re:What does XP stand for? by kurt_cagle · 2001-10-25 05:50 · Score: 1

X - in Greek is pronounced as ghee, where gh is a soft gutteral similar to the ch sound of Bach when pronounced in German. English really doesn't have an equivalent sound. Only ignorant frat boys actually say X as kye.

One of the most famous pages of the Book of Kells, one of the earlierst Celtic illustrated Bibles, is the XP (ghee-rho) page, where the two letters dominate the layout of the page.

However, XP was something of a late choice for Microsoft, from what I understand, and almost certainly comes from eXPerience. It was also a direct nod (or rip-off) of OS-X, and a tendency by Microsoft to put X in the names of practically any consumer technology because the letter has a certain mystery and cachet in marketing circles (it is also the principle sound of SeX, and there is no doubt some subliminaly attempts here to make XP "sexy"). Windows Y, for instance, would have raised questions about the viability of Windows (Windows Why?) and Windows YP is not even worth thinking about, because it brings up questions about prostate conditions.

XP is a fancy new shell on top of Windows 2K, and all kinds of interesting hooks to eliminate competitors: WMA, Passport, Photo Manager, Firewall software, etc. I personally have a basic question about all this, however ... Microsoft is clearly intending to dominate every potential software market it can, which means that Windows will continue to include more and more "core" technology that reduces their competitors, but also means that developers will have fewer and fewer opportunities to create products that keep them employed. Perhaps it is this reason that I have occasionally thought XP really stood for eX-Programmer ...
Re:What does XP stand for? by RussGarrett · 2001-10-25 05:50 · Score: 2

What many people don't realise, is that Chi Rho (XP) is also a common abbreviation for the Greek Christos (./ doesn't seem to like Greek), for Christ.

Windows Christ. The second coming is upon us :) Nothing like Microsoft being modest. Windows XP! The most stable OS yet, and also heals the sick and cures your sins!

--Russ (rg@tcslon.com)
Re:What does XP stand for? by Prior+Restraint · 2001-10-25 06:11 · Score: 1

I use [gay] to mean happy.

I use hacker to mean cracker.
Re:What does XP stand for? by briggsb · 2001-10-25 06:16 · Score: 2

Here's a Top 11 list with explanations for XP.
Re:What does XP stand for? by elbane · 2001-10-25 06:53 · Score: 1

Bill hopes it stands for eXtinguish the Penguin but it really stands for eXtra Pricey.

--
I used to want to be somebody but then I realized I wasn't somebody material. -- Anonymous Coward
Re:What does XP stand for? by MrBogus · 2001-10-25 07:50 · Score: 1

I always thought that NT 4.0 was "Daytona" and Cairo was a yet undelivered OO OS, although many of the planned features made it into Windows 2000.

--

When I hear the word 'innovation', I reach for my pistol.
Re:What does XP stand for? by Alan+Partridge · 2001-10-25 09:57 · Score: 2, Interesting

"It was also a direct nod (or rip-off) of OS-X, and a tendency by Microsoft to put X in the names of practically any consumer technology because the letter has a certain mystery and cachet in marketing circles (it is also the principle sound of SeX, and there is no doubt some subliminaly attempts here to make XP "sexy")." Did you hear that Steve Jobs always intended SCSI be pronounced "sexy". Master of marketing though he is, that was ONE step beyond...

--
That was classic intercourse!
Re:What does XP stand for? by posmon · 2001-10-25 10:02 · Score: 1

it's cartman from south park just before he says:
"screw you guys, i'm going home!"

--
update comments set karma=-1, reason='offtopic' where sid=26315
Re:What does XP stand for? by Alan+Partridge · 2001-10-25 10:08 · Score: 1

Xaotic Programming?

--
That was classic intercourse!
Re:What does XP stand for? by jcast · 2001-10-25 12:02 · Score: 1

That's what I meant by ``at least originally''--I lost track of what ``Cairo'' meant a long time ago. My point, though, was that ``Chicago'' was barely 32-bit, and was certainly not the first 32-bit Windows. That honor (?) goes either to WinNT 3.1, or, if you want to insist that NT isn't really ``Windows'', to Win32s (apparantly the design inspiration for Chicago/Win95, btw :).

--
There are reasons why democracy does not work nearly as well as capitalism.
-- David D. Friedman
Re:What does XP stand for? by seven89 · 2001-10-25 12:38 · Score: 1

Interesting. There is a Christian symbol called
the "chirho" where the rho (P) is superimposed
over the chi (X). It stands for the first two
letters of "Christ" (in Greek). I wonder if this
means Bill Gates is the anti-Christ?

--
----------
Manifesto for the Peoples of the Third Millennium
Re:What does XP stand for? by odaiwai · 2001-10-25 13:33 · Score: 2

Well, direct3d on win2k looks fine to me. It's 8.0a on Win2k, what is it on XP?

dave
Re:What does XP stand for? by odaiwai · 2001-10-25 13:37 · Score: 1

"My name is Linus Torvalds and I pronounce Linux as Linux"
"My name is Bill Gates, and I pronounce WinXP as 'Respect My Authoritah!'"

dave
Re:What does XP stand for? by kaimiike1970 · 2001-10-25 15:35 · Score: 1

If you say 'XP' real fast it kinda sounds like 'sexy', so all those words you used must be right.

--

Do a google search before posting.

Rather late on the media onslaught by iainl · 2001-10-25 01:42 · Score: 1

Despite an understandable reason for delay (for those that didn't hear, the original campaign was reworked post-September 11 to no longer have a tagline about flying) they do seem to be rather late on the media overload. I've seen a few adverts, but after the less than enthusiastic applause for ME the hype stories have been a bit quiet. It wasn't even because ME was bad, particularly, just that journalists are cottoning on to the fact that its not the groundbreaking event that they thought 95 would be. I noticed only four PC Worlds in the UK opened at midnight, unlike previous console release-style silliness.

Or am I wrong and I've been living under a rock?

--
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"

Re:Rather late on the media onslaught by ecalkin · 2001-10-25 01:51 · Score: 1

why is there less media hype? would *you* want to compete with bombings and bacteria?

*and*

if you look at the slump in retail sales and advertising and etc, etc, etc, it probably just isn't a good time in general to be pushing stuff.

*and*

the amount of noise needed to make this show up on peoples radar would attract a lot of very loud naysayers.

so we'll just see it on oems for now...
Re:Rather late on the media onslaught by dragons_flight · 2001-10-25 02:07 · Score: 2

It wasn't even because ME was bad, particularly, just that journalists are cottoning on to the fact that its not the groundbreaking event that they thought 95 would be.

I agree that ME was better than 98, though not dramatically so. What I wonder about though, is whether journalists are more keyed to the look of the system. It wouldn't surprise me if the standard media judges software to be "groundbreaking" primarily based on whether it looks and feels different rather than whether it has exceptionally more functionality.

Realistically the changes to style and design should be weighted as some of the biggest differences over Win2K, so perhaps MS is counting on that to boost sales and hype among the ignorant. Surprising really, that it's been this long since a makeover.
Re:Rather late on the media onslaught by VEGETA_GT · 2001-10-25 02:15 · Score: 1

me batter then 98se. Well then why did I have so many people after buying there new system with Me on it ask me to whipe ME off and put 98se on it. And Now while running 98 Se get very few to no complaints. Sorry, ME is not that good. It craches more then 98 ever did. It is much easer to run 98 stabler then ME ever could be. Now moving to win 2000 / XP. Well I have not bashed 2000, why, because even tho its just a e hash on NT, it acualy a decent system. SoI am expecting XP to be decent, but its realy not worth a upgrade from 2000 to xp yet. 98.me to xp, thats worth it in my opinion tho.

my 2 cents plus 2 more

Anyone planning to upgrade ? by Anton+Anatopopov · 2001-10-25 01:42 · Score: 1

If you are, have you considered the alternatives?

Anyone who came here to find out about XP, this is just to let you know that there is a choice. You may have heard of Linux. It is free. And it never crashes with a BSOD. And it has many top games available. Oh yeah and did I mention it is free ?

Windows users interested in trying out Linux for themselves should go to LinuxNewbie where they will find resources, and help on installing this revolutionary free OS.

Come on guys, don't follow the blind upgrade trail. Just because Bill says upgrade doesn't mean you have to do it :-)

Re:Anyone planning to upgrade ? by sammy+baby · 2001-10-25 01:54 · Score: 2

Thanks, Anton. I'm sure that will be a big help for all those Slashdot visitors who have never heard of Linux before.
</joke>
Re:Anyone planning to upgrade ? by gazbo · 2001-10-25 01:59 · Score: 1

And it never crashes with a BSOD
Kernel panic - Just because it has a different colour scheme doesn't make it any less fatal.
Re:Anyone planning to upgrade ? by Anton+Anatopopov · 2001-10-25 02:04 · Score: 1

It was aimed at the minority of slashdot readers who use Microsoft products (usually at work), and at anyone who came here via a search engine because they were looking for Windows XP info.
I'm just making sure that Linux does not get overlooked in the stupid hype-fest that surrounds Windows NT5 sp10 ^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H Windows XP
Pointing out the product activation is a key strategy in my one-man battle to counteract Micro$oft FUD wherever it rears its ugly head.
And that includes slashdot!
Re:Anyone planning to upgrade ? by therealjdlinux · 2001-10-25 02:07 · Score: 1

ah yes, finally someone who thinks practically. why, if i may be so bold, must we all go out and spend our hard earned money on a product which we all know is full of serious security holes, just because bill says it is a good idea? talk about being a slave cash cow to microsoft. now, before some of you hardcore windows freaks get the wrong idea, i do use windows. it is the right tool for some jobs. but when it comes to OS functionality and power, i use RH 7.1 on my toshiba satellite 1735. may i also interject here how that install went? a hell of alot easier than the W2K install went. i hit [ENTER] about 8 times, and that was it. i am sick and tired of the extremist fundamentalists in the computer industry, and the ignorance which follows. no, my friends, linux is not better that windows, windows is not better than linux... it just comes down to the simple question "Is it the right tool for the job?"

--
Point your browser to http://www.redhat.com
Re:Anyone planning to upgrade ? by Anton+Anatopopov · 2001-10-25 02:11 · Score: 1

Where do you get the 80% figure from ? Are you trolling me ? No way. I am not a zealot because I promote my OS of choice. Is Bill Gates a zealot because he spends a fortune promoting XP ?
I do not understand where your figures come from, show me some evidence that slashdot readers use IE I simply do not believe your figures.
Anyone reading the content of this site will know you are making this up.
Re:Anyone planning to upgrade ? by jilles · 2001-10-25 02:26 · Score: 2

Anyone suggesting linux as an alternative to windows XP for end users does not understand a thing about usability. I was reading a review about mandrake earlier today it boiled down to nice look and feel, pitty it's so buggy (this was in the review and is also my opinion entirely).

Windows XP is a nice product. It's a pitty the kernel tries to contact Redmond through the internet on a regular basis, but that doesn't change the fact that it is also setting some standards from the point of view of usability.

I notice the linux community is acting very conservative and even scared towards win xp. Jokes about clippy, blue screens and so on are made a lot whereas proposals to include new useful features into e.g. KDE or Gnome are a lot less frequent. Windows XP means a lot of new work for those projects because they are way behind delivering the same out of the box experience as windows XP.

I have windows XP at home. After some fiddling I managed to get it reasonably secure and prevent it from contacting MS too often. I love it. A lot of the new interface makes sense. Of course you want to at least change the colour scheme but a lot of things work really nice.

At this point, linux is a downgrade for end users. You lose features. You may say you don't like the features, you don't need the features or don't want the features but the bottom line is you lose them. And if you really need a unix environment, most of the more useful UNIX tools have win32 ports available. And yes windows xp is stable and won't bsod unless you install crappy drivers. If you load a buggy kernel module you have the same experience in linux.

Just for clarity, I have used linux for years and maintain a debian server. I know my shit and have hands on experience with most mainstream distributions.

--

Jilles
Re:Anyone planning to upgrade ? by Anton+Anatopopov · 2001-10-25 02:32 · Score: 1

reasonably secure and prevent it from contacting MS too often
But I want it more than reasonably secure, and I NEVER want it to contact any website without my express authority. Is it possible to prevent XP from ever contacting microsoft ? I am worried about my privacy, and to be honest, I think this feature could be easily hacked to make it contact somewhere other than Microsoft. I am not the only one who is more than a little uneasy about the direction Microsoft are taking with this.
Don't get me wrong, I am not one of those communist linux-or-die zealots. Its just that I don't really trust Microsoft at a gut level. I get the feeling they are up to something, and they are trying to exploit me somehow.
Re:Anyone planning to upgrade ? by unacoder · 2001-10-25 02:38 · Score: 1

He just *MAY* be able to see the server stats since he *MIGHT* be an admin here .... It probablly is %80 since alot of linux users surf the web and read their e-mail in windows, and the default (forcable?) browser is explorer, unless you _choose_ to download netscape (another whole dicsuccion topic ..)
Re:Anyone planning to upgrade ? by jilles · 2001-10-25 02:41 · Score: 2

Install a firewall, that's what I did. But if you are willing to trade features for security it is a free country and I could very well imagine moving to linux for this reason one day. Just don't claim that it is the same thing as windows because clearly it is not. If you use linux you will have to use the commandline because most file managers are crap, you get less integration between apps and so on.

--

Jilles
Re:Anyone planning to upgrade ? by eyez · 2001-10-25 02:46 · Score: 1

Pardon me, but that is totally incorrect. Almost 80% of Slashdot web traffic comes from IE varieties.
I am so sick of hearing this argument. Look, those numbers are a little ill-faced. A big factor here is that MANY MANY readers browse from work, And a lot of people have no choice of the OS that their work uses, or that they are forced to browse from. There are other factors, too, but i'd say that's the biggest one.
The numbers are bunk.

--
get 0wned. irc.w30wnzj00.com
Re:Anyone planning to upgrade ? by therealjdlinux · 2001-10-25 02:47 · Score: 1

Yes, Zone Alarm works well as a firewall. It may also be a good idea to disable your Internet connection when it is not needed. It may also be a good idea NOT to jump on the bandwagon here and get into XP just yet. My eXPerience with MS OS's is to wait atleast one year before upgrading so they can iron out some crutial bugs...

--
Point your browser to http://www.redhat.com
Re:Anyone planning to upgrade ? by Anton+Anatopopov · 2001-10-25 03:21 · Score: 1

Why would they bother to use windoze to surf the net when they have konqueror AND mozilla AND netscape available on the Linux platform ? It does not add up.
Re:Anyone planning to upgrade ? by i_am_nitrogen · 2001-10-25 03:23 · Score: 1

There are three reasons for a kernel panic: 1. Buggy drivers that were downloaded from some site which required babelfish to read, and hadn't been updated in a year... 2. Hardware failure: i.e. overheated CPU/RAM, bad RAM (download the badram patch!!!), etc. 3. Experimental subsystems: trying to load vesafb, tdfxfb, and atyfb all at the same time, then unload them all... That's probably cost the wosrt of my like... 10 total panics. The rest were direct results of overheats. My Cyrix CPU is especially sensitive to temperatures over 120 degrees Fahrenheit.

--
A solution to the problem with music today
Re:Anyone planning to upgrade ? by Anton+Anatopopov · 2001-10-25 03:25 · Score: 1

I don't want to install a firewall, I am not a tech-savvy internet expert. I simply want the default positon of Microsoft's OS's to be that they shut the f*** up, and let me tell them what to do.
Its like Microsoft have no comprehension of how to write a protocol. Take a look at lan-manager. That thing just chats and chats and chats. It looks like it was designed as a kind of laplink protocol where you didn't care how much bandwidth you used because you were the only 2 machines on the net.
When will they learn. Protocols should speak when spoken to. They should never broadcast, and they should certainly not connect to websites without the express consent of the person using the PC.
Re:Anyone planning to upgrade ? by Anton+Anatopopov · 2001-10-25 03:58 · Score: 1

So what if I don't have internet access, or access to a phone ? Am I out of luck ? I won't be taking XP with me to the antarctic then.
Re:Anyone planning to upgrade ? by drsquare · 2001-10-25 04:01 · Score: 1

Maybe, because of Windows' monopoly, they have a winmodem?
Re:Anyone planning to upgrade ? by gazbo · 2001-10-25 04:30 · Score: 1

99% of the time I would agree with you. Also, I would point out that I had not had a single Win2k BSOD *ever* (having run it for ~1 year) until a recent change of hardware, when I got around 1 per week.

Just imagine a newbie wannabe geek who started with this configuration. He'd be posting along all of the other people saying "Microsoft is crap, I get a BSOD every week!" While you make good points, please remember they all apply (with specifics changed) to Windows also.

However, I badly disagree with your assertion that these are the *only* things that can go wrong. I think it is foolish to have that much trust in any programmers. Incidentally, there are methodologies to mathematically prove program correctness (eg Floyd-Hoare, but I don't think that'd cope too well in concurrent environments) and if you showed me such a proof worked all the way through, maybe then I'd believe that Linux has perfect kernel stability. Until then, I continue to believe in Lubarsky's Law of Cybernetic Entomology:
There is ALWAYS one more bug

PS. Cyrix CPU? Maybe I should be gentler on you - you already have a lot to put up with ;-P
Re:Anyone planning to upgrade ? by damiam · 2001-10-25 04:43 · Score: 1

And how many search engines would have indexed this page an hour after it was posted?

--
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning.
Re:Anyone planning to upgrade ? by i_am_nitrogen · 2001-10-25 04:54 · Score: 1

PS. Cyrix CPU? Maybe I should be gentler on you - you already have a lot to put up with ;-P

Heh, funny. I had to smile as I read that. You have no idea how much I've had to put up with, regarding computers or otherwise... Car catching on fire, taking 32 days to ship my new 850 duron motherboard, the motherboard was doa, I don't have a car anymore, my sister broke the bulb in my projector by hitting it with a pillow while it was hot, ...
I'm done with my gripe.

--
A solution to the problem with music today
Re:Anyone planning to upgrade ? by jilles · 2001-10-25 04:56 · Score: 2

You are not tech savvy and yet you want to have tight control over your computer?? Sorry, even MS can't deliver you that and linux requires you to be tech savvy to do just about anything windows does out of the box. Don't point at mandrake please, I've seen it and it is way too buggy for end users who don't know what they are doing. If you care to know, I thought win9x was actually more reliable than that piece of shit. And that particular OS caused me to swear in very nasty ways.

In any case, if you get me a linux version that is as easy to use as win XP, as secure as linux and as feature rich as win xp, I'm your man but I think we both know such an OS does not exist today (well maybe OS X but that has some hardware requirements and stability issues). I'll stick with win XP for the moment and by all means, use linux on your desktop if you have to. I just wanted to let people hear a different sound on this site. All this shit about linux being ready for the desktop is kind of premature from where I'm standing.

Privacy issues aside (I'm not denying there are any and I'm annoyed by them as well), windows XP is a very nice product. Compared to win2k it is a nice, incremental update. It is reasonably stable, it's slightly faster then win2k, it has some nice features, a polished UI that you can configure if you are offended by the use of colours. I've used it for a month now and I think a tech savvy user can eliminate most of the privacy issues: remove activation (or install corporate edition); don't sign up for passport; get rid of messenger; install a third party firewall (e.g. sygate); install virus scanner (e.g. norton) and you are all set for a reasonable safe eXPerience :-).

--

Jilles
Re:Anyone planning to upgrade ? by updatelee · 2001-10-25 05:11 · Score: 1

I use OpenBSD on my server, its stable and server feature ritch. it is not and neither is linux, a desktop replacement.

ultraedit
securecrt
opera
IE
MS Office

are all either not supported or not as current. (and for all those dorks, yes securecrt uses ssh, unix ssh client is the same as cesurecrt, same as ultraedit is the same as notepad)

what some of these companies dont understand is that people dont want to switch apps, if they are used to MS Office, they dont want to switch to star office. until WINE gets in gear with better support, linux will NEVER replace windows as a workplace. even then it probably wont.

Chris Lee
lee@mediawaveonline.com
Re:Anyone planning to upgrade ? by infiniti99 · 2001-10-25 07:29 · Score: 2

until WINE gets in gear with better support, linux will NEVER replace windows as a workplace. even then it probably wont.

So what exactly are you getting at? It sounds like you mean any OS that can't run Windows apps perfectly won't be able to make headway, even if they run such apps perfectly. You know, even though I use Linux/KDE, I think I agree with you.

But then why even state the obvious? Are you just acknowledging Microsoft's dominance? Do you think this is not a problem? Or does none of that matter to you?

I don't think any computer user (regardless of OS choice) is denying that Microsoft holds a monopoly on desktop operating systems. However, there is nothing wrong with having hope in another OS. I'm doing my part contributing to free software, and I wish Linux the best.
Re:Anyone planning to upgrade ? by Da+Masta · 2001-10-25 10:23 · Score: 1

To correct your sp10 thing... Windows XP is officially Windows NT 5.1.

bah! i'm playing video games by layingMantis · 2001-10-25 01:42 · Score: 1

yeah, you guys'll be fucking around with that crap while i'm busy honing my Linux skills on my playstation2 (in between games of Grand Theft Auto 3).

--but in both cases, hitting it with a bat is generally the best fix.

Why upgrade? by sid_vicious · 2001-10-25 01:43 · Score: 2

I'm running 98 on my Windows machine at home, and quite frankly, I'm going to stick with software that was created *before* the "software-as-a-service" craze that's taken over MS.

--
If it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet.

Re:Why upgrade? by debaere · 2001-10-25 01:48 · Score: 1

I agree

On my systems that require me to have a Microsoft OS (namely, my school laptop), its WIn98 - Its actually stable, and I didnt have to register anything.

--

DOS is dead, and no one cares...
If there's a Bourne Shell, I'll see you there
Re:Why upgrade? by sid_vicious · 2001-10-25 16:01 · Score: 1

Because w9x is as buggy as hell.

I thought I upgraded to Windows 95 because Windows 3.1 was buggy as hell...

Then I upgraded to Windows 98 because 95 was buggy as hell..

Then I upgraded to Windows 98 SE because Windows 98 FE was buggy as hell..

:-)

--
If it ain't broke, it doesn't have enough features yet.

Why XP affects us. by CtrlPhreak · 2001-10-25 01:43 · Score: 2

It's in the EULA. Anyone who has ever used a micro$oft product has to care about any new release. Else all those records that micro$oft keeps will be released to our employers/family/public. Think of all that pr0n!

--
WikiAfterDark.com It's a sex wiki, go now!

This is too stupid... by GiorgioG · 2001-10-25 01:44 · Score: 1

The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive.

This statement makes it sound like deleting data from a hard drive is a brand new idea, a breakthrough in technology....WHAT?

Re:This is too stupid... by JatTDB · 2001-10-25 02:49 · Score: 2

I believe that is (badly) referring to some of the security features of XP...basically built-in utilities for "cleaner" deletions, stuff that can't be as trivially recovered after the fact. Normal deleted files can be quite easily retrieved with the right tools.

--
"That's Tron. He fights for the Users."

initial media reports on Windows XP by nicsterrr · 2001-10-25 01:45 · Score: 1

Isn't it bizzare that one of the most talked about advantages of WinXP (in the mass media) is that "it doesn't crash all the time like previous versions". I have heard this phrase in one form or another a few times on the news today.

Microsoft seem to be trying to turn the biggest faults of the Win9x releases into a marketing campain. The question is, will the general public be taken in by this and run out to PC World (or what ever your country's big-chain computer supermarket is) to buy an upgrade? I fear they will..

Re:initial media reports on Windows XP by NumberSyx · 2001-10-25 02:29 · Score: 2

They said the same thing about Win95, 98, 98SE and ME, they also said it about WinNT and 2K. And it was true, each version sucked a little less, but still sucked. My experiance with Windows in general is, it is stable as long as you never have to use non native drivers or install any software. XP is no different, I just installed my copy and it worked great for about 5 minutes. Word of advice, Intel PC Anypoint software will screw up XP so bad you can't even get into Safe Mode and the Compatibility settings didn't work. It is only 9 in the morning and I've had to do 3 installs, without the AnyPoint Software I can access shares, but I still can't access the Internet. I haven't even gotten to installing any apps and I am having trouble. I think I will go back to Win2K and return XP to the store.

--
"Our products just aren't engineered for security,"
-Brian Valentine,VP in charge of MS Windows Development

the XP release date by nachoworld · 2001-10-25 01:45 · Score: 3, Insightful

If people were really excited about getting Windows XP (there are quite a few of them), then they would have got their hands on it earlier. eBay had some up for sale. My brother got a copy of XP a little less than a month ago and offered it to me, but I told him to just get the money he could make from an eBay sell (it was about $350 back then).

I think release dates are getting less and less important now in the days of advanced comunication and distribution. Remember those days when people would line up for hundreds of feet Tuesday at midnight for the release of a CD? Those days have been dwindling, and the lines are getting smaller. If one really wants that CD he'll download it before the release date and then take his time getting the CD after it's released. Tower record parties on Newbury Street in Boston are nonexistent anymore. Just 3-4 years ago they were incredible with radio staion vans parked everywhere and hundreds of people croweded around.

--

---
I'm just an ordinary man with nothing to lose.

Re:the XP release date by tweakt · 2001-10-25 01:58 · Score: 1

Tower record parties on Newbury Street in Boston are nonexistent anymore. Just 3-4 years ago they were incredible with radio staion vans parked everywhere and hundreds of people croweded around.
No, I think that's just cause music sucks now.
Re:the XP release date by OpMindFck · 2001-10-25 02:16 · Score: 1

I think this has more to do with the fact that Tower Records on Newbury Street closed this year.
Perhaps there will be some new Virgin Record Megastore parties for us all to attend soon.

Dumbass's shoulda renewed their lease on time...

--
Sipping on Jolt and Dew. Laid back. With my mind of my cubicle and my cubicle on my mind.
Re:the XP release date by 3am · 2001-10-25 02:28 · Score: 1

oh, newbury streets so yesterday.

everyone knows that all the good release parties are on boylston and lansdowne.

--

A: None. The Universe spins the bulb, and the Zen master merely stays out of the way.
Re:the XP release date by Shanep · 2001-10-25 03:16 · Score: 1

No, I think that's just cause music sucks now.

Amen brother! I grew up through the 70's and 80's, and heard plenty of my Mums 60's music, lots of really great stuff in that 30 years (I'm blocking most rap out, it's a sanity mechanism), then the 90's started to get crap and now we're well into the nothings it seems most music is really crap.

It would be OK though, if it were'nt for the fact that talentless morons insist on churning out the old music that I like with their fucking shit moans and grunts with their PC's, set to a gen-x feel that apparently is more enlightened than the uncool group that originally authored the tunes and lyrics without bloody sound sampling.

Give us a break! These new bullshit bands should receive the death penalty or XP or something.

--
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
Re:the XP release date by �laC|n · 2001-10-25 03:58 · Score: 1

Well, as always, taste of music is a very personal thing. IMNSHO the music created nowadays is certainly better than any older songs. Think RnB, Trance, House, Rap and so...

--
__ elacin
Re:the XP release date by cavemanf16 · 2001-10-25 05:04 · Score: 1

Speaking of 'release parties'...
Anyone else notice that all the newest cutting edge music that you find incredible enough to buy, is now found through online outlets like KaZaA, Gnutella, etc? And all the new talk about the next best software is also found for free online first. That's probably why you're not seeing hype parties for selling the masses on crap. It just won't happen anymore. People have more power to make better choices because of the Internet. MS has always been behind the curve on that one. Being that they've been playing catch up on the internet thing for the last 5 years, I'm guessing that WinXP isn't going to do nearly as well as they even think it will.
Re:the XP release date by Shanep · 2001-10-25 05:46 · Score: 1

Definitely! I'm happy, you're happy, we're all happy! Except for maybe Osama:/bin/laden# mv / /dev/null.

If only jingles on TV, etc did'nt rip off good 'ole songs. Target in .au uses a song that a once kinda liked. ; )

--
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?

Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by Masem · 2001-10-25 01:45 · Score: 4, Insightful

Sure, I'm going out tonight to buy XP, but only because my gaming machine is 98, and I'd like a bit more stability in it.

But I've been listening to reports and reading articles, and while the industry seems hyped up about it, most pundents (that are not typical MS fanboys) appear to be believe that for most businesses, already in the Win2000 migration, XP is not a good choice, and for those on home machines, you have to have some oomph in your box to be able to take advantage of it.

Most of these critics think that the stability is a great point, but other aspects, including look, integration of WMP and other programs, and the *amount* of blatent advertizing for MS on the default install is put-offs for them. They definitely feel that the engine behind XP is worthwhile being built on 2000, but they could do without all the glitz.

And many people expect very slow sales of XP. There's no lines-around-the-corner as with 95, but they do expect a modest amount of sales today. But they don't believe that XP is going to be a big economic burst into the market as Microsoft tried to make it out as; again, since most seats of the OS are sold to business, and most appear to be sticking to 2000 until necessary, there's going to be very few sales from that market.

The short story from what I've read: it's great that MS finally has a NT-based, stable OS for the home user, as it's been 5 years that it's been needed, but it appears to carry a lot of extra weight that is unnecessary and possible questionable in light of several legal cases.

--
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:

Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by King+Of+Chat · 2001-10-25 02:01 · Score: 1

for most businesses, already in the Win2000 migration, XP is not a good choice

I'd be interested to know what proportion of MS OS license income comes from business Vs consumer. From a business perspective, why the hell should we re-train 10 support people and 1000 users on a n.0 MS OS? OK, so this one might be different and work properly before SP1, but we know the drivers aren't there and we aint gonna replace half our hardware just to get the Fischer Price look on the desktop.

What the advertising campaign is doing to causing (l)users to constantly question why we aren't upgrading. This causes a lot of pressure on senior (ie stupid) management and that is a PITA. We must resist.

--
This sig made only from recycled ASCII
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by Rogerborg · 2001-10-25 02:01 · Score: 2
- I'm going out tonight to buy XP, but only because my gaming machine is 98, and I'd like a bit more stability in it
Why not buy Win2K? I know for a fact that some games now run slightly faster on Win2K than Win98SE, due to a switch in emphasis by driver developers. I've been developing and playing DirectX and OpenGL based games on Win2K for a year or so, and am generally happy with its stability and speed.

So really, why buy WinXP? It's just Win2K with phone home and some more GUI knobs and whistles that slow it down (that you'll immediately turn off if you're bothered about performance).
--
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by Surak · 2001-10-25 02:02 · Score: 2

Sure, I'm going out tonight to buy XP, but only because my gaming machine is 98, and I'd like a bit more stability in it.

I hope for your sake you have a lot a horsepower and that your games will run on the XP box. A lot of games don't seem to run on Windows 2000 for some reason, and XP is based on 2000.

--
My journal has hot /. gossip.
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by jhines0042 · 2001-10-25 02:06 · Score: 1

it's great that MS finally has a NT-based, stable OS for the home user

I don't know, I've been using Win2K at home for a year now. Isn't that a stable NT-based OS?</tounge-in-cheek>

--
42 - So long and thanks for all the fish.
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by jhoffoss · 2001-10-25 02:08 · Score: 2

I've not yet had any problems with XP Pro (been running it for two weeks or so) other than explorer crashing once or twice on my pIII-450, but that has subsided since I went to a normal interface, rather than the Fisher-Price® default. You will definitely need a machine with a bit of oomph to run comfortably, but there are a lot of graphical things you can disable to increase performance on a box.

The WMP integration thing kinda blows, but I've never used it to begin with, no reason to start now. The first CD I popped in, I was prompted for what action to take (i.e. open in WMP, open in Winamp (already installed), open in Windows CD Player, do nothing), so you are not locked in and it appears to be easy enough to use another program. The CD burning seems to be overhyped though; WinXP only does DirectCD-style burning (ie. mount CD-R/W as read/write, and drag 'n drop files) so I had to pull Nero down again, but it works great. Nero with the built-in DirectCD style stuff should complement the other quite nicely. Be warned, I was not able to read a CD burned with DirectCD in XP, and roxio does not have an updated UDF/DirectCD reader for XP.

My DVD drive was another story altogether. I had WinDVD 2.x installed as a trial version; when I installed XP, it notified me that those drivers were not compatible (didn't yet mention I did an upgrade from 2k pro) so it downloaded new DVD drivers and the newest version of WinDVD, registered and all. Nice accidental addition. Overall, I like XP after the gooey gui is gone.

--
Linux: The world's best text-adventure game.
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by Voidhobo · 2001-10-25 02:08 · Score: 1

And as we speak, SP1 is already in the make, no doubt about it.
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by jhoffoss · 2001-10-25 02:10 · Score: 2

Actually, it was 9x/2000 combined. And I have not had a problem with any of the games I've tried yet. The ONLY issue any of my friends have had were between nVidia's newest Detonator XP drivers and WinXP in Dark Ages of Camelot, and they had that same problem under Win9X. Quake3, Wolfenstein, Black & White, Sims, Everquest, Unreal Tourney, Diablo2 all have worked, and the list goes on.

--
Linux: The world's best text-adventure game.
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by satanami69 · 2001-10-25 02:12 · Score: 1

You're Right!

--
I really hate Dan Patrick.
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by Rob.Mathers · 2001-10-25 02:12 · Score: 1

I too have been using Win2k (SP2) at home for quite a while, and I find that it's excellent. My games run as fast if not faster than on 98SE, and I haven't had to reboot in months (not counting switching to *nix).

--

My other sig is funny!
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by denzo · 2001-10-25 02:13 · Score: 2

And many people expect very slow sales of XP. There's no lines-around-the-corner as with 95, but they do expect a modest amount of sales today. But they don't believe that XP is going to be a big economic burst into the market as Microsoft tried to make it out as; again, since most seats of the OS are sold to business, and most appear to be sticking to 2000 until necessary, there's going to be very few sales from that market.
From what I've observed, from smaller companies or state/government agencies, there are a lot of machines still running NT 4.0, who have been holding off on the Win2k migration. Granted, I haven't been in any big dot-com campus, but I do think we'll see XP sales exceeding Windows 98SE, ME, and Win2k combined, at least within the next 6 months. There'll be businesses with NT 4.0 who will soon be ready to migrate to XP and skip Win2k altogether, and there will be consumers who will actually upgrade their home OS; Win98SE and ME, for the most part, have been OEM-only updates. Win98 was the last real upgrade the people actually bought to upgrade their 95 machines. Since both the business and consumer markets are involved with this product launch (like Win95 was, before NT 4.0 came out), I'm pretty sure we'll see pretty big sales figures.
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by mplex · 2001-10-25 02:13 · Score: 1

So really, why buy WinXP? It's just Win2K with phone home and some more GUI knobs and whistles that slow it down (that you'll immediately turn off if you're bothered about performance).

Because there are more drivers in XP than 2000 and it's main purpose is to move people from 98 to the NT base. Why buy 2000 now when XP has been released? As far as performance, it performs just as well on my machine. Besides games, performance is not an issue like it used to be. It's $100 for the upgrade, I remember paying that amount before...
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by jhoffoss · 2001-10-25 02:15 · Score: 2

Shit, forgot to add that nearly every one of these run faster, smoother and look MUCH better under XP on my TNT than they did under 98, 98SE, ME (God was that ever a mistake) or 2000.

along with that, the genearl windows display, interface, fonts, graphics, etc. are much cleaner, better looking (even without the toy GUI).

--
Linux: The world's best text-adventure game.
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by ladykadyj · 2001-10-25 02:21 · Score: 1

...I do think we'll see XP sales exceeding Windows 98SE, ME, and Win2k combined, at least within the next 6 months.

I disagree. Companies running NT looking for an upgrade would most likely consider Windows 2k over anything else as it is the likely replacement for NT. Windows XP, from what I've seen of it and their marketing campaign, is most likely best served on the home user's desktop.

Of course, I don't have my pulse on the OS needs of the nation... (grin)
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by trentfoley · 2001-10-25 02:23 · Score: 1

Why not buy Win2K? For me, there is one stupid game I play that won't run on anything NT: Golden Tee Golf by Incredible Technologies. Come to think of it, I haven't played it in quite a while, but I know the minute I take Win9x off my hdd and boot menu, someone will come over and want to play it. I could play it on the kids' laptop, but it is so much slower than mine. Does anyone know if this game will function on WinXP?
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by Cylix · 2001-10-25 02:24 · Score: 2

Do you have any benchmarks to prove this.

I have a hard time believing there would actually be an improvement over 98. Windows98 is rather unstable, but that lack of stability comes from the shortcuts they made to increase performance. (ie, run on crap hardware). In the end, the footprint is a great deal smaller then that of the newer OS's.

Often when we think something will perform better, our perceptions are a bit tainted.

I've done this before, its a rather common reaction.

--
"You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by swordboy · 2001-10-25 02:24 · Score: 2

Sure, I'm going out tonight to buy XP

Just make sure that you get a *real* copy of it. Microsoft, as of late, doesn't seem to allow the vendors to sell anything other than a restore CD. The vendors then put the license info and hologram directly on the PC. This means that, unless you can get the license off of the PC, that you will lose permission to use XP when you get rid of the PC in question. Not only that, but you still have to source a real CD that you can install from (not just a PC specific restore number).

When people say that MS is not a monopoly, I point them to these things... Most users simply don't know any better...

--

Life is the leading cause of death in America.
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by jhoffoss · 2001-10-25 02:35 · Score: 2

Heh, my employer still runs a host of Win95 boxes. They were considering migrating to 2k in January, but they may retool that to move over to XP. The remote desktop feature, remote assistance and the ability for a WinCE device to VPN to the desktop without setting up Terminal Server or anything are big selling points for them.

--
Linux: The world's best text-adventure game.
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by jhoffoss · 2001-10-25 02:48 · Score: 2

I understand what you mean, but no, I've never benchmarked anything. I am going purely by perception, but I do know wolfenstein ran like crap under 2k, quake ran like crap under 2k, chess master 6000 didn't even run under 2k. Granted, with the first two I got decent performance with lower graphic settings and 800x600, but with XP I've been running with medium graphic settings across the board at 1024x768. Bear in mind, XP was installed along with the latest version of DirectX and the DetonatorXP's. As far as stability goes, I saw one BSOD in over a year of using 2k beta3 and on, and have not seen one in XP [yet].

Don't get me wrong, XP is not the eighth wonder of the world, but I am happy with it. A coworker dropped it on his laptop at work the other day, was up and running an hour after putting the CD in, with access to the novell network and everything. So as far as I can tell, it's glitzier 2k with gaming support =) but not much wrong with that.

Unfortunately all the hard-core/Linux geeks spaz when they see something like this, with a Fisher-Price® GUI and "useless" fading menu effects, etc, but this is the garbage Linux will need to become a wide-spread home operating system.

--
Linux: The world's best text-adventure game.
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by sparkane · 2001-10-25 03:03 · Score: 1

more drivers
Right, that's one place win2k REALLY falls down, hardware compatibility.
As long as we're on it, other areas where win2k falls short that hopefully winxp will change:
deleting files (cnn: "The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive.")
multiple users (cnn: "It is also family-friendly. Each computer can be used by a number of different members of the household so dad's accounts do not have to be closed before the screen is set to the real business of Grand Turismo.")
I'm sure there are many other improvements winxp holds. Boy, I can't wait to get rid of win2k.
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by InShadows · 2001-10-25 03:06 · Score: 1

Stability I balk at that! I installed the OS and tried to open up the boot.ini file to configure it properly (yes, it tore apart the proper configuration) and *bam* less than 3 minutes on the machine it crashed.. no bsod just restarted it by itself.

as for gaming. Well the gaming is nice and smooth but even with this 9x compatibility mode or DOS compatibility mode it still will not play old games. I tried playing Shadow Warrior and some other FPS games and they didn't work. But it handles RTCW MP Beta and Red Alert 2 beautifully. But I'll stick with 95 or 98se as my old gaming platform.

All this is doing to the techie is making him/her create another partition. So now they can have their Linux, FreeBSD, BeOS, Windoze 9x and now Windoze XP. Forget ME and 2000 and stick with 98SE and XP.

Also buy more RAM. That beast eats more RAM faster than you can feed it. Stable yes, glutton pig for hardware yes.

Other options that have been in past OSs are now missing, ie. the Java Virtual Machine. I hated downloading that over and over each time I upgraded to the latest RC release and now the Gold code.

Well that's about all I have to say on that subject. Nice OS, but could be better.

IS
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by tubs · 2001-10-25 03:09 · Score: 1

98, 98SE, ME (God was that ever a mistake) or 2000.
You bought a copy of all those OS's? I still use 98. I can play games on it, type letters on it, run dreamweaver on it and browse the Internet on it. What more do I need?

--
try to make ends meet, you're a slave to money, then you die
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by jhoffoss · 2001-10-25 03:16 · Score: 2

No one said I bought copies...ME was illegal, but the thing never installed, just destroyed my entire partition table. 98 came with the box, 2k was free (for beta versions) and a purchased copy once it was released.

--
Linux: The world's best text-adventure game.
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by tubs · 2001-10-25 03:17 · Score: 1

...from smaller companies or state/government agencies, there are a lot of machines still running NT 4.0.
The place I previosly worked in was a wholly NT4 place - they decided that it would be 5 years before they upgrade again. The last upgrade was 1998 from win3.1/OS2, so it will be 2003 before they upgrade.
I currently work in a Hospital (NHS) and guess what ... we still have 3.11 computers in production use, infact the IT department only stopped supporting the hardware they run on (IBMs for the most part) 2 months ago.

--
try to make ends meet, you're a slave to money, then you die
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by hattig · 2001-10-25 03:32 · Score: 2

The vendors then put the license info and hologram directly on the PC
Hell, so that PC case is licensed to run Windows XP. :)
Seriously, someone needs to come out and state whether consumers own software (i.e., can do what they like with it), or only license the software (where the software is then provided on a CD/DVD and you install it agreeing to the license agreements, however evil).
The real issue with XP is how some features will not work until you register with Microsoft and Passport. The next big Microsoft monopoly is standing like a 10 mile high brick in your back yard! When the internet division of Microsoft was IE, splitting it off was silly. Now the internet division is huge, and splitting this off the rest of the company makes sense. Don't let Microsoft tie their OS into the open internet in such a way that the functionality of the Internet is damaged for people who don't use the Microsoft OS or authentication mechanisms. .NET could do this.
If there has to be a centralised authentication mechanism, or multiple centralised authentication mechanisms, then build them around an open-specification platform. Then at online shops, you can just select your choice of authentication/data/address/preferences server from the list (Passport, Sun, Tucows, BT, etc). Anybody want to set up a project on SourceForge? Cool name needed... how about AuthSafe or SecureStore?
Apart from the above, XP is good - it gets rid of the crap base that is DOS. However, the government needs to look at the issue of how long Microsoft supports its products. I don't think that at least 5 years is unreasonable!
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by Graspee_Leemoor · 2001-10-25 05:38 · Score: 1

"All this is doing to the techie is making him/her create another partition. So now they can have their Linux, FreeBSD, BeOS, Windoze 9x and now Windoze XP"

Real "techies" have multiple computers, not multiple partitions...

graspee
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by InShadows · 2001-10-25 06:11 · Score: 1

Very true. But I live in an overinflated housing district and so I don't have any money to buy multiple computers or believe me I would.
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by arkanes · 2001-10-25 06:55 · Score: 1

A fair amount of games that "don't run on 2k" aren't broken because of any problems with the OS, but because of the installer for the game - One older game I have assumed that anything that wasn't win98 or win95 was an older OS and refused to install. The apcompat.exe utility can often be used to run win95/98 only apps on 2k.
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by FrankNputer · 2001-10-25 07:07 · Score: 1

From what I've observed, from smaller companies or state/government agencies, there are a lot of machines still running NT 4.0, who have been holding off on the Win2k migration.
So - you REALLY think that all the corporate people who waited to see if Win2k was stable enough to use are going to go out in droves all of a sudden & snap up XP? Please -

I think we'll see some big sales figures, but I would bet on more of them coming from the consumer market who would buy it because they think it's better because it's new, rather than the corporate market who generally don't want to screw with what works.
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by Dahan · 2001-10-25 08:03 · Score: 1
FWIW, XP isn't an n.0 OS--it's WinNT 5.1. Windows 2000 was 5.0.
And a pre-SP1 hotfix was just released earlier today... Q309521, although I can't actually find the KB article on MS's website, so I have no idea what it does. Affected files are:
- dxmasf.dll
- lsasrv.dll
- msdxm.ocx
- sfcfiles.dll
- ssdpapi.dll
- ssdpsrv.dll
- url.dll
- wininet.dll
- httpod51.dll
- ssinc51.dll
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by denzo · 2001-10-25 08:37 · Score: 2

So - you REALLY think that all the corporate people who waited to see if Win2k was stable enough to use are going to go out in droves all of a sudden & snap up XP? Please -
Not in droves, no. What I said was within about 6 months for WinXP sales to beat Win98SE, ME, and Win2k sales. A lot of businesses have halted planned Win2k deployments to wait for today's release, so that they can test it. Many corporations have already said (in news articles by CNet and such) that they will probably end up deploying WinXP when the first service pack is released sometime in early 2002.
That would fit within my 6-month time frame.
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by Magila · 2001-10-25 12:43 · Score: 1

Because there are more drivers in XP than 2000

XP drivers are compatible with 2000 which means what little hardware lacks 2K support is going to gain it with XP drivers.
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by Surlyboi · 2001-10-25 13:51 · Score: 1

Negatory. I do IT consulting for a huge company and they have no plans to move to XP anytime in the next three years, much less six months.

They've been testing 2k since '99 and plan to move to that (slowly) in the next six months. Pick up an IT trade magazine and you'll find a lot of other companies share that thinking.

--
Mod me down and I will become more powerful than you can possibly imagine...
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by denzo · 2001-10-25 15:48 · Score: 2

Negatory. I do IT consulting for a huge company and they have no plans to move to XP anytime in the next three years, much less six months.
Then I doubt this company is aware of Microsoft's "expiration" plans for its older operating system like Windows NT 4.0. For one thing, volume discounts will no longer be available, so any companies buying new computers from OEM vendors will be bundled with Windows XP. Supposedly this was supposed to begin happening on October 1st.
Microsoft is offering the ability to "downgrade" from an XP license to an older operating system without additional costs, for a while. By the end of June next year, Microsoft will reduce their technical support for Windows NT 4.0 and will be more costly to run. Then, all forms of support for NT4 will be cut off in 2003.
For individuals, this isn't much of an issue. But for big corporations running thousands of workstations and hundreds of servers, running obsolete Microsoft operating systems, and expecting support for them, will become prohibitively expensive.
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by Surak · 2001-10-26 03:22 · Score: 2

Unfortunately all the hard-core/Linux geeks spaz when they see something like this, with a Fisher-Price® GUI and "useless" fading menu effects, etc, but this is the garbage Linux will need to become a wide-spread home operating system.

Oh, you mean "Enlightenment"? :-)

--
My journal has hot /. gossip.
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by Cylix · 2001-10-26 05:13 · Score: 2

Actually, all you are talking about are better detonater drivers.

The nVidia drivers really sucked for about the first year of win2k. It just so happens they have finally gotten it right about the time of XP releasing. It took about the same time for the linux detonater drivers to really shine as well.

Like I said, perceptions can be fooled by what we want to see. However, if you had been running those same olders drivers on beta XP you would have had the same issues as with your Win2k counterpart.

--
"You should always go to other people's funerals; otherwise, they won't come to yours." -- Yogi Berra
Re:Surprisingly, a lot of negative press by CyberKnet · 2001-10-26 06:17 · Score: 2

Upgrades from Win95/NT 4.0 are no longer available. Microsoft cut them in august/september.

--
Video meliora proboque deteriora sequor - Ovidius

Well, its true really by iainl · 2001-10-25 01:46 · Score: 1

Its a funny way of saying it, but 'users to delete data from their hard drive' presumably refers to the secure delete facility thats new to XP. Because users want to make really sure that an undelete on win.exe can't be done, or something.

--
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"

Biggest benefit by interiot · 2001-10-25 01:46 · Score: 2

XP's kernel is based off of Windows 2000, so it's stable. And it's compatible with many more programs (read: games), ala Win98.

So really, it's nothing new, it's just a combination of previous products.

Press pees self over XP launch. by VulgarBoatman · 2001-10-25 01:47 · Score: 1

From the CNN article: For the launch of Windows 2000 in New York, Star Trek's Patrick Stewart was beamed down though the one star definitely ruled out is the London-based material girl on the ad-track.

Like so much of the crap in the mainstream press about XP... I can't parse this, but it sounds GREAT, yet horribly confused.

--
"Because I love Pat Benatar." -- Britney Spears, when asked why she covered Joan Jett's "I Love Rock 'n' Roll"

Re:Press pees self over XP launch. by iainl · 2001-10-25 01:54 · Score: 1

OK, I'll translate for you. Bald guy who was in Star Trek 15 years ago got paid a fortune to go to the launch event in New York, but Madonna is rich enough to not bother doing so.

Its a pretty odd way of wording it if you've not seen the TV adverts yet. Perhaps they assume you spend your entire life glued to their channels...

--
"I Know You Are But What Am I?"
Re:Press pees self over XP launch. by (void*) · 2001-10-25 02:49 · Score: 2

The scary thing is that it was probably written by someone who spends their life glued to their channels.

This explains... by garoush · 2001-10-25 01:47 · Score: 2

This explains why /. is *so* quiet today. Everyone is waiting in line at their local computer store for a copy. ;-)

--

Karma stuck at 50? Add 2-5 inches.. err.. 2-5x Karmas Count to your pen1es.. err.. Karma all naturally and private

Re:This explains... by sandidge · 2001-10-25 02:26 · Score: 1

Just so they can fiddle with it and then bitch even more about how Microsoft is evil and should just die, little thinking that they just conributed money into the belly of the beast.

;)

Tick Tock, Tick Tock... by TheLoneCabbage · 2001-10-25 01:47 · Score: 1

So how long untill there is a major incedent with WindowsXP? How long till a virus like code red flushes through there number?

Granted XP is horid enough that a virus would seem kind.

--
I would rather be ashes than dust!

Re:Tick Tock, Tick Tock... by TheLoneCabbage · 2001-10-25 04:52 · Score: 1

Linux bugs tend to get fixed.

This is the first major bug problem in a while and it's being delt with in the open.

MS security flaws on the other hand have a tendency to get buried, untill months later when MS releases a patch, that it's own system admins are to slow to apply.

Plus MS gets the ire of hackers everywhere. MS is more likley to be exploited, because they are such a poria than anyone else.

Hyporite sheep... LambChop Returns (this time it's personal)

--
I would rather be ashes than dust!
Re:Tick Tock, Tick Tock... by Lonath · 2001-10-25 05:59 · Score: 1

I wonder if they put any "self-help" code in there to stop piracy. Wouldn't that suck if they did that and someone figures out how to disable copies of XP remotely because of a "feature" instead of a bug?

--
Best. Comment. Ever. Enjoy!

WooooHoooo!!!!!!!!! by PrancingFairy · 2001-10-25 01:47 · Score: 1

Watch everybody's hero, Bill Gates (I like to call him Billy), make a speech online, and Sting will be singing!!!!! The site is already unresponsive, but a little /.ing should help things a bit.

Re:WooooHoooo!!!!!!!!! by Shanep · 2001-10-25 03:32 · Score: 1

and Sting will be singing!!!!!

Please, please, please tell me Sting is NOT singing for M$! If he is, I will sell all my Sting CD's and keep my LAME 256k MP3's of them.

Fuck, first Metallica and now Sting, Van Halen said some nasty stuff about Matchbox 20(?) and now Linus says something along the lines of "I have'nt really looked at XP or FreeBSD, (duh) but I don't see anything good in them".

Is there anyone who is genuine out there?

--
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?

kernel fork? by Lxy · 2001-10-25 01:47 · Score: 2

I heard a rumor that Linus was waiting til the release of WinXP to fork the 2.5 kernel. Anyone have info on that? Maybe it was just a rumor.

Everything I've heard on XP is that it's stable. Nobody I know has said anything else about it.

Micro$oft:This will change your computing experience.
Me:Yup, I can get work done now instead of staring at a BSOD.

--

There is no reasonable defense against an idiot with an agenda
:wq

Re:kernel fork? by collar · 2001-10-25 01:58 · Score: 1

I heard a rumor that Linus was waiting til the release of WinXP to fork the 2.5 kernel. Anyone have info on that? Maybe it was just a rumor.

I would think that is a rumour. Given that in most interviews Linus claims that he isn't all that interested in other operating systesm. Also, what reason would he have to wait until winXP comes out to fork 2.5? Its not like (sorry MS) it's going to change the face of computing. I think you will be waiting until Linus is sick of trying to keep 2.4 stable and gives it to Alan.
Re:kernel fork? by Cro+Magnon · 2001-10-25 04:32 · Score: 1

I thought he'd given up keeping it stable when he gave us 2.4.10!

--
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.

Windows XP midnight release hype by mcroydon · 2001-10-25 01:48 · Score: 1

Okay, so I was at CompUSA at midnight Eastern time last night. I wasn't buying Windows XP, I was there for a phenominal deal on a 15 inch LCD. CompUSA announced a midnight madness 2 hour sale last night, and when I showed up at the store around 11:45 there were probably a hundred or so people there. As the store opened (yes, strobe lights AND bubble machines), most people darted to the other big deals that night and I only saw a few copies of XP sold for the 20-30 minutes I was there. Curious.

--
6.02x10^23, baby!

Why bother? by bsiggers · 2001-10-25 01:48 · Score: 1

From the top of the CNN article:

The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive.

Hard disks are getting bigger all the time, why bother letting users delete data? Talk about misreading the market.

Re:Why? I like OS/2 by Havokmon · 2001-10-25 01:48 · Score: 1

With that out of the way...

I have Win2k and XP on my home system. XP is Fat32, Win2k is NTFS.
3 drives:
6GB Installation HD. This is where the OS get's installed.
30GB Data (on ATA-66 controller)
30GB Data (on ATA-66 controller)

XP doesn't support my ATA-66 controller.

What does that mean? Well, I can setup my wife and kids on WinXP (It IS very nice for multiple users), and still run everything I need in Win2k.

A basic lack of driver support saves my critical data, and hides what I don't want the kids or wife to see (ie. pr0n, Rated M games, etc..)

And there is still enough space on the 6GB to install the kids' games. Each can have their own desktop and theme.

That's about all XP is good for.

--
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)

XP upgrade by gunnerbunny · 2001-10-25 01:48 · Score: 1

I think it will be interesting to see how many generic people actually elect to upgrade. I've heard nothing but opposition even from so called computer illiterates. I was listening to the radio this morning and heard it mentionedon a few stations (including Howard Stern's commentary) all of the jockeys I listened to said they had no plans of contributing to Microsoft's bank account,and even though they had no computer knowledge, the biggest argument I head was the way Microsoft is "piping" applications output (ie prints from digital pictures) to their business partnersonline (ie fuji).....I eagerly await the general public's reaction to this mess

--
"that which does not kill me makes me bitter" -anon

Oh good, a slashdot article on the release of XP. by tswinzig · 2001-10-25 01:48 · Score: 2, Redundant

I'm sure this discussion will be incredibly insightful.

--

"And like that ... he's gone."

Just something I noticed about XP by browser_war_pow · 2001-10-25 01:48 · Score: 2

I used XP on my desktop for about a week and if you want windows, don't need to boot a non-MS OS then it is the way to go... if you're used to NT/2k. I noticed that setting permissions for multiple users is actually significantly harder to figure how to do than it is in 2k. In 2k you just right click on something and click properties. In XP you have to first enable some obscure option to be able to do that and of course there is nothing in the helpfile to tell you what to do, you have to figure it out on your own

might i suggest... by rootofevil · 2001-10-25 01:49 · Score: 1

this or this

--
turn up the jukebox and tell me a lie

Pretty impressive by egrinake · 2001-10-25 01:49 · Score: 1

From the cnn-article :

"Microsoft has launched its new Windows XP operation system. The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive."

Oh my, those are some mighty impressive new features. Excuse me for a moment while i format my Linux-box and install XP. ;)

Re:Pretty impressive by c=sixty4 · 2001-10-25 02:49 · Score: 1

I don't know - perhaps they've finally weeded out the error message "Unable to delete file X. There is not enough space on the drive to perform the operation." that was in earlier versions.

--
"The good die first." "Most of us are morally ambiguous, which explains our random dying patterns." --- MST3K
Re: Pretty impressive by SteveX · 2001-10-25 02:49 · Score: 2

You can't format your drive and install Windows XP. That would require deleting Linux, and Linux doesn't support that, does it?

It's fun to be anti-microsoft, but... by Gnight · 2001-10-25 01:49 · Score: 1

It can be fun to be anti-microsoft, and say that Windows XP is terrible, but after forcing myself to use it a little, I've found that it isn't so bad as I first thought.

I especially like the new features on windows explorer, by far the best file manager from Microsoft yet. Even though I think that the "Luna" theme is a rip of of OSX, one can change it back to the good ol' "w2k" theme.

Biggest gripes from me?

1) Cost's too much

2) High system requirements, slow (relative)

3) Seems to be a rip of of MacOSX

I still don't see a very good reason to upgrade from Win2k yet, maybe it's just me. Personally I'll be sticking with Linux for now, after years of using/tweaking Linux, ANYTHING Windows seems sooo damn slowwww.

Re:It's fun to be anti-microsoft, but... by pi+radians · 2001-10-25 02:11 · Score: 1

>>3) Seems to be a rip of of MacOSX

If anything, that SHOULD be the reason to buy it.

Luckily, OS X runs just peachy keen on my 'pute.

--

sin(6cos(r)+5A)
Re:It's fun to be anti-microsoft, but... by NRLax27 · 2001-10-25 03:40 · Score: 1

Seems to be a rip of of MacOSX

But when Apple tells themes.org that it's not ok for them to use the OS X theme, that's an outrage, right? Linux having OS X themes is great, but Windows having one is just a total ripoff.

Funny first line from the CNN article... by Akardam · 2001-10-25 01:49 · Score: 1

The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive.

*scratches head*

Oh, so what they're saying is that the OS'll let US delete the data from our hard drives now, instead of the OS oh ever so kindly doing it itself?

I dunno, but at 7am, that line just seems insanely amusing. :)

On with the show, this is it! by imrdkl · 2001-10-25 01:50 · Score: 1

I'm not sure why... but I am somehow reminded of the old Bugs Bunny Hour cartoons, where the entire cast comes out on stage for the Grand Finale.

Re:On with the show, this is it! by Shanep · 2001-10-25 03:53 · Score: 1

yeah, "no more rehearsing..." of course would be refering to Windows 1,2,3,NT,95,98,ME...

Somehow, I think they'll be singing that song again when Microsoft WinXP^2 comes out, in a feeble attempt to steal the desktop market back off OSX some stage in the future. ; )

I've been a Wintel user since the late 80's, but my next Arch/OS purchase will be PPC/OSX.

There is no way I am ever buying into M$ shit ever again.

--
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?

Boycot? by SilLumTao · 2001-10-25 01:50 · Score: 1

Has anyone considered a general boycot of XP? I know that most of the die hard /. group only runs Linux, but what about the others?

I've been running dual machines for a while and I can't see why M$ deserves any more of my money. Why should I have to pay more for a stable OS? Why should I pay more for something I already have? (I can download WinAmp and ICQ for free and my digital camera came with it's own software).

This is why I will never buy XP. Unless M$ is willing to innovate, I'll never buy another product from them again.

--
"He was a wise man who invented beer." -- Plato

Re:Boycot? by turbine216 · 2001-10-25 02:08 · Score: 2

i'm really not sure why you would call for a boycott under your circumstances. If you've got what you need, and don't have any desire to upgrade, then don't. Microsoft isn't holding a gun to anyone's head. There are no laws requiring you to upgrade.

Sounds like you're trying a little to hard to whore some karma from the linux-zealots. Please, from now on...think before speaking.

Windows XP - How exciting. by Anonymous Coward · 2001-10-25 01:50 · Score: 1

The only people getting excited about this are losers - by definition. These are the people that get excited by everything they read in ZDnet publications. For them the OS and the one or two boxed applications they use daily ARE the height of computing. Needless to say, they do not know how to code.

New reasons to switch to a non-MS O/S by urdak · 2001-10-25 01:52 · Score: 1

The CNN article says, in the first paragraph:

The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive.

I don't know why deleting data is supposed to be an advantage(?), but if XP is really more stable than Microsoft's previous OS's, we'll need to think of better reaons to disparage Microsoft's OS than it being "much less stable than Linux".

One good reason to avoid the new Windows XP is Microsoft's rediculous new "internet activation code" scheme. Not only does it violate your privacy, it also will cause you major hassles if you need to upgrade your computer or reinstall it (a typical occurance with previous MS O/Ss). Worse: this scheme is impossible to pull off in many commercial situation, in which individual Windows machines are not connected to the Internet, a phone, or anything else.

I'd bet that within a week we'll hear about "cracks" that let criminals install illegal copies of Windows XP - while us "good guys" still have to struggle with the hassles of this new copy-protection scheme...

Re:New reasons to switch to a non-MS O/S by asincero · 2001-10-25 03:20 · Score: 1

> I'd bet that within a week we'll hear
> about "cracks" that let criminals install
> illegal copies of Windows XP

Get with the times ... there've been ways around Windows Activation since the betas.

- Arcadio
Re:New reasons to switch to a non-MS O/S by NRLax27 · 2001-10-25 03:45 · Score: 1

it also will cause you major hassles if you need to upgrade your computer or reinstall it

This is not actually correct. Windows activation will not consider you to have a different computer until you've changed at least 3 major componants of your computer. Reinstalling without changing hardware will not cause activation to fail over the internet. In addition, if you change more than 3 componants and its been more than 120 days since your last "major" hardware change, activation will still work over the internet.

The only people who activation will be a problem for are those people who are pirating the software. I don't imagine that most of us are replacing more than 3 major parts of the computer more than once every 120 days.
Re:New reasons to switch to a non-MS O/S by Shanep · 2001-10-25 04:03 · Score: 1

Worse: this scheme is impossible to pull off in many commercial situation

Yeah, back when I first heard about the activation thing, I thought about all the medium to large size businesses and .edu environments that WON'T be upgrading to XP since they won't be able to employ quick large SOE rollouts or repairs with imaging through Ghost or whatever.

Surely M$ has a solution to that, and surely that solution will be H@x0r3D to death.

--
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
Re:New reasons to switch to a non-MS O/S by elspuz · 2001-10-25 04:30 · Score: 1

My understanding is that M$ will issue corporate keys to large institutions. When XP is installed with one of these keys, activation is not required, allowing for such things as unattended installations. Of course, there's probably several of these keys making the rounds of the pirate community already...
Re:New reasons to switch to a non-MS O/S by Cro+Magnon · 2001-10-25 04:36 · Score: 1

Stablility isn't the main issue anyway. I use NT4 at work, and it seems as stable as Linux so far. But it needs more horsepower to run well, it locks you in to 1 greedy vendor, it's still a haven for virii, and it just isn't any fun!

--
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Re:New reasons to switch to a non-MS O/S by Anne+Thwacks · 2001-10-25 04:56 · Score: 1

Come on, I was offered a cracked copy at a computer fair last weekend!

--
Sent from my ASR33 using ASCII
Re:New reasons to switch to a non-MS O/S by asincero · 2001-10-25 08:37 · Score: 1

> Yeah, back when I first heard about the
> activation thing, I thought about all the
> medium to large size businesses and .edu

These people would probably get the Corporate version which doesn't require Activation.

- Arcadio
Re:New reasons to switch to a non-MS O/S by Shanep · 2001-10-25 14:04 · Score: 1

These people would probably get the Corporate version which doesn't require Activation.

Do you know what mechanism is in place to prevent copying of that version? I am curious to know which will be most pirated.

--
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?

I bet Microsoft plays this off as an innovation: by phoey · 2001-10-25 01:52 · Score: 1

A feature called Compatability Mode fools older programs into thinking they are working with Windows 95, 98, ME or 2000 so they do not choke with XP.

We need to educate people. They think that deleting files and backword compatibilty is innovation!?!?! They think that because it crashes less its better? Since when was crashing a lot ever acceptable to begin with?!?!?!

My First Impressions by Enonu · 2001-10-25 01:52 · Score: 5, Informative

The new look of Windows XP to me could be described as bubbly. With the default theme, it's Ficher Price and bubbly. I know that perhaps it's because I'm used to the old L&F that I don't like the new L&F, but it seems like a fair amount of people I've shown XP to can only ahhh and ooooh as well as say "I want that on my system." Just goes to show how right Steve Jobs was when the iMac and AQUA L&F came out.

XP handles crashses better on my system. It's like they didn't happen. However, they occur more often than in Windows 2000. So even though my system doesn't become any bit more unstable after a crash, I get to see that error report dialog box a bunch. This is really a pain for apps that don't seem to like XP entirely. For example, Real Player 8 gets a bit upset from time to time. My system shouldn't crash at all. I have brand name components (ASUS, Hercules, CAS2 Corsair, etc.) and Windows 2000 rarely if ever crashed.

The boot time for XP is freaking amazing. I think it's faster than ME even. I have a sub 10 second boot from pushing the power button. Another nice thing is that hibernation is transparent since there is only the option for Standby, Shutdown, and Restart when you go to Start/Turn off Computer. The only weird part is that it takes longer to turn off my system than it does to turn it on. I think it's because of the nVidia drivers I have installed, but I can't confirm that.

I like to have multiple folders open on my Desktop at the same time when doing file management. When there are > 5 or open, at a resolution of 1600 x 1200, the taskbar will group all these folders together in one button so that the taskbar doesn't get overly crouded. You can then close all these folders as a group, etc. This is one of my favorite features.

There's loads more to talk about, but it all boils down to one thing. My productivity has not increased one iota. If you have 2000, it's not worth upgrading to because of this. It's not like the upgrade I did from 98 SE to 2000 I did a while back, where all the sudden everything ran flawlessly.

Re:My First Impressions by Hektor_Troy · 2001-10-25 02:27 · Score: 1

"I have a sub 10 second boot from pushing the power button."

How the hell do you do that? My computer is stuck some 25 or 30 seconds in the POST etc before even considdering booting anything.

--
We do not live in the 21st century. We live in the 20 second century.
Re:My First Impressions by Extimes · 2001-10-25 02:46 · Score: 1

for the hibernation, if you hold shift, or control, or alt, (i really dont remember) on the shutdown dialog box, standby is replaced with hibernate

--
I want transparency effects. I want so much transparency, I can see the back of my monitor! http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/
Re:My First Impressions by geekster · 2001-10-25 02:48 · Score: 1

About that "grouping similar applications", wasn't that in gnome first? Or was it some other system that introduced it? Would be kinda cool if it was windows who "stole" this feature from an open source project, because you so often hear someone say "oh, they just stole that from windows".
Not that I'm pointing fingers at windows for this using this feature, exchanging ideas is one of the great things about open source, just funny how it often isn't "allowed" to go the other way.
Oh my, now I'm tracing off again withough actually doing my homework... so who invented this feature?
Re:My First Impressions by gimpboy · 2001-10-25 02:57 · Score: 1

me too. even if you discount the scsi init stuff it takes a while for it to probe the drives. i suppose i could turn off the memory check and change the ide stuff from auto and specify them. then i guess redhat takes about 25 to 35 seconds from the grub menu to the kdm login screen. i think i'm probably starting alot more services than he is also: apache, postmaster, sendmail, sshd, etc.

then i ask myself: self when was the last time you rebooted? well i think it was the last time i upgraded my operating system. while the 10 second reboot is nice, it would only become a real issue if you had to reboot alot.

--
-- john
Re:My First Impressions by Red+Avenger · 2001-10-25 03:23 · Score: 1

I have been beta testing this for a while and at first I was a little sceptic about how all this stuff was going to make me more productive and I said the same thing. Give it a couple of weeks. I didn't think it was going to be more productive but it really has. Its also a lot easier to work with and working with files and folders makes a lot of sense now.
Re:My First Impressions by edremy · 2001-10-25 03:28 · Score: 2

About that "grouping similar applications", wasn't that in gnome first?

Perhaps, but I had that with ApplWindows in MacOS back in 1996, and it probably wasn't new then. Beautiful extension: the program menu had sub-menus for every window, the program menu could pop-up under the mouse and you got alt-tab switching years before Apple added it.

Never understood why Apple didn't make ApplWindows standard: IMHO a Mac is totally crippled without it. Someday I'll learn enough OSX programming to rewrite it in my copious free time.

Eric

--
"Seven Deadly Sins? I thought it was a to-do list!"
Re:My First Impressions by jaliathus · 2001-10-25 03:28 · Score: 1

Real Player 8 gets a bit upset from time to time

hmmm.... convenient that RealPlayer is competing with Windows Media, eh?

</conspiracy theorist>
Re:My First Impressions by cybrthng · 2001-10-25 03:28 · Score: 3, Informative

The fact it can boot up in 30 seconds on my dell laptop is sweet. When i come into work and have a tons of stuff to catch up on, having my pc booted by the time i get my coffee is worth it.

The task bar sorting is nice, grouping applications together cleans up the desk space alot.

VPN seems more stable, i don't have weird problems like i did in 2k. (IPsec)

Builtin PPoE is a godsend for verizon dsl customers, no more having to chase down 3rd party vendors for software. I have a linksys that does this for me, but for some people, this alone is worth the money for the upgrade.

Interface is "bubbly" but just goes to show you how much you can change these days.

Stability is nice. I have random complete reboots in 2k, doesn't happen under XP.

i work better, it has smoothed out the rough edges of 2k as far as compatibility and speed, and kept the stability as well as added support for DX8, better media support and whatever .net has to offer.

Plus Java 1.4 with the WinXP look and feel makes java look native as far as interface and you get the added benifits of the new release.. even if .net doesn't take off it is still a great java platform!
Re:My First Impressions by abolith · 2001-10-25 03:47 · Score: 1

it not uncommon, I run 98 Se and I have a sub 15 sec boot time and a buddy of mine has a sub 12.
all running on 98 SE. I will not ungrade to 2K or XP until I am FORCED to. and with some of the new linux development going on i do not think i will ever reach the point of getting XP, or even 2K.

--
if you want "No More Hiroshimas" then I say "You First. No More Pearl Harbors."
Re:My First Impressions by re-Verse · 2001-10-25 03:49 · Score: 1

The only weird part is that it takes longer to turn off my system than it does to turn it on. I think it's because of the nVidia drivers I have installed, but I can't confirm that.

You're absolutely correct. The best fix for this is to go into your services menu, and disable "Nvidia driver help".

I dont know exactly what it does, but i'm a gamer, and it being off has not effected me, and it gets rid of those 2+ minute shut down times. In fact, once that was gone, my computer is now shutting down faster than it boots up, as it should.

BTW i didn't discover this on my own, it was on an XP tweaking page, i dont remember where.
Re:My First Impressions by angelo · 2001-10-25 04:10 · Score: 1

Considering that I have never ran a version of RealPlayer that didn't:
a) Crash on close under Windows
or
b) Segfault under Linux

I'll have to pick Real as the culprit. I avoid it like the plague.

--
Lowmag.net
Re:My First Impressions by Shanep · 2001-10-25 04:20 · Score: 1

My system shouldn't crash at all. I have brand name components

ROFL! Yeah, and you have a brand name OS, you say it should'nt and your point is? ; )

I've been using M$ OS since the late 80's, and up until about 1995 I thought that system crashes were just that, but now that I've been using Linux on those same systems for about 4 years, I now know that they were OS crashes. ; ) Linux has NEVER (or any of the BSD's for that matter) crashed on me in normal use in 4 years.

I have managed to make it crash once when I tried to force a hard drive into a UDMA mode and a CDROM on the same channel into a different mode, but besided that... rock solid stability. In contrast, the 4/8/16/24/32 {cough} MS OSes would crash once every day or two and NT every few weeks would chuck a bit of a fit. 2k seems better, but still nowhere near Linux, *BSD or some other decent OS.

--
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
Re:My First Impressions by Junks+Jerzey · 2001-10-25 04:56 · Score: 2

The new look of Windows XP to me could be described as bubbly. With the default theme, it's Ficher Price and bubbly.

And that's exactly what I thought when I first saw everyone going ga-ga over Enlightenment. Never underestimate the power of an obnoxious and goofy user interface scheme.
Re:My First Impressions by Doke · 2001-10-25 05:10 · Score: 1

I don't know about "grouping" them into a single icon. However, twm could alphabetize your icon manager in the late '80s.
Re:My First Impressions by fishbowl · 2001-10-25 05:36 · Score: 2

>>With the default theme, it's Ficher Price and
>>bubbly.

>And that's exactly what I thought when I first
>saw everyone going ga-ga over Enlightenment.

I wonder what theme you saw in that first view of enlightenment! I would NEVER have thought "fisher price" or "bubbly"

"Tattoo shop", maybe. "Punk rock club" probably.
My term for it was "endarkenment" because all the early themes looked like they were trying to be in bladerunner.

Toys for 4 year olds didn't enter into my perception... Skinny Puppy, more like.

--
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Re:My First Impressions by donutello · 2001-10-25 05:45 · Score: 2

That's weird. My Shut down menu has the options:
Logoff
Shutdown
Restart
StandBy
Hibernate

I'm using the default theme so it might be the difference between XP Professional and XP Home (I'm on the former)

--
Mmmm.. Donuts
Re:My First Impressions by MrBogus · 2001-10-25 06:43 · Score: 1

Wow -- is Java really going to get Windows native widgets (as it has on OS X)? Time to download the beta ...

--

When I hear the word 'innovation', I reach for my pistol.
Re:My First Impressions by alexburke · 2001-10-25 08:20 · Score: 2

Another nice thing is that hibernation is transparent since there is only the option for Standby, Shutdown, and Restart when you go to Start/Turn off Computer.

Actually, at the screen with those options, hold Shift and the Standby button turns into a Hibernate button. That's how you hibernate on XP.
Re:My First Impressions by spectecjr · 2001-10-25 10:26 · Score: 1

then i ask myself: self when was the last time you rebooted? well i think it was the last time i upgraded my operating system. while the 10 second reboot is nice, it would only become a real issue if you had to reboot alot.

You know, most people 'reboot' in the morning, because they switched their computer (you know, that thing which burns the equivalent of 5 60W lightbulbs all night...) off at night.

Simon

--
Coming soon - pyrogyra
Re:My First Impressions by Bert64 · 2001-10-25 10:27 · Score: 1

It still loads slower than win3.11 on the same hardware... My Amiga used to boot from cold in 6 seconds, and from warm in even less.

--
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Re:My First Impressions by Bert64 · 2001-10-25 10:46 · Score: 1

Well, on linux/alpha it just freezes up when you try to open a file, no segfault, just a lockup and 100% cpu usage.

--
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Re:My First Impressions by Ibby · 2001-10-25 11:37 · Score: 1

Turn your computer off? I don't understand...

--
Karma: Good. I'm hoping in the same way as pizza is 'good'...
Re:My First Impressions by woodja · 2001-10-25 12:48 · Score: 1

The latest builds of Gnome have the same feature for the task bar. See screenshot (133kb).
Re:My First Impressions by Decimal · 2001-10-25 17:35 · Score: 1

at a resolution of 1600 x 1200, the taskbar will group all these folders together in one button so that the taskbar doesn't get overly crouded.

Huh. I thought it was that "Group related icons" checkbox in the start menu settings. Anyway, speaking of resolution, it hasn't been very well publicized that XP strips out the 640 x 480 resolution. It's 800 x 600 and up or nothing.

--

Remember "Bring 'em on"? *sigh
Re:My First Impressions by cburley · 2001-10-26 06:53 · Score: 1
Well, my Shut Down menu has these options:
- Log off
- Shutdown
- Restart
- Stand By
- Hibernate
- Nap
- Snack
- Putter Around
- Time Out
- Defrag
- Wish Upon a Star
- Crash and Burn
;-)
--
Practice random senselessness and act kind of beautiful.
Re:My First Impressions by Barlo_Mung_42 · 2001-10-27 20:08 · Score: 1

"...but now that I've been using Linux on those same systems for about 4 years..."

You haven't though. Linux uses differnent drivers for that hardware (as I'm sure you know).
It's the driver in most cases causing the crash.
Re:My First Impressions by Shanep · 2001-10-28 17:19 · Score: 1

"...but now that I've been using Linux on those same systems for about 4 years..."

You haven't though. Linux uses differnent drivers for that hardware (as I'm sure you know).

I have'nt what? Been using Linux? Are you trying to say that Microsoft OSes crashing regularly versus Linux never crashing, is an indication that Microsoft crashes are due to poor MS 3rd party drivers?

Ever heard of MS certified drivers? Loads of crashes occur with them too. Also, if MS were more open with their specs and source code, we could expect more stable drivers and thus a more stable user experience.

The Linux drivers on my system are mostly from the Linux community, the WARP code for my various Matrox cards besides.

It's the driver in most cases causing the crash.

If my NIC crashes, ifconfig eth0 down;rmmod tulip;insmod tulip;ifconfig eth0 up, NIC back up and system still going.

Graphics card driver crashes, Ctrl-Alt-Backspace, then start X again. If that does'nt work, I can shh (telnet disabled) from another machine and kill X. System keeps going.

Same for sound... etc.

Attribute MS instability to what you like, but don't dare try to claim that MS is somehow not responsible for the instability of their products, driver issue or not. When fresh systems come from Dell or Gateway, with MS blessed everything, crashing here and there is who's fault?

Regardless of where the blame lies, I will continue to use the systems that have never crashed on me, with their mostly hacker written drivers. As opposed to shit OS code further hampered by shit driver code. MS warez are a dogs breakfast.

--
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?
Re:My First Impressions by gumr · 2001-10-29 08:15 · Score: 1

I bought XP Professional and installed on one workstation. What actually happens if I decide I need it instead on a different workstation and proceed with installation and activation?

WTF? by gaj · 2001-10-25 01:53 · Score: 1

Why the fuck does being successfull == bad?

Is the envy that bad?

I'm serious. I don't understand what else it could be. Saying that their music sucks is one thing. That's a matter of taste and if, like me, you just don't like their music, then fine. I get that.

But WTF is up with the whole "corporate sellout" thing? Why do you care?

Re:WTF? by barneyfoo · 2001-10-25 01:57 · Score: 1

REM pretends that they are for the people, and yet are corperate milk cows. Maybe they are just dumb. Ok that is a good excuse. Maybe he's too dumb to realize that his standing-up for the people is but a farce. Yes I am against record labels charging $17 for a new cd. It's a joke. Mass production on cheap medium should TRANSLATE TO LOWER PRICES. why hasn't it?! DUH, because there's a distribution monopoly and people like michael stipe are only feeding into it. Btw, for the clueless out there, this translates to many many other things, including operating systems and books and other forms of intellection property (better termed intellectual theft, as it hoards from the public good).
Re:WTF? by Flick · 2001-10-25 02:42 · Score: 1

Oh yes MS is so sucessful because they make great products that compete on the open market. Yes they are great because they have created great things.
Where have you been? Give me an honest answer...
I don't think you can...
Re:WTF? by barneyfoo · 2001-10-25 02:56 · Score: 1

Spelling is the ground floor of the evolutionary sky scraper. Sorry, I skipped that grade. Nice seeing ya, I'm on my way up. Hope you enjoy the overgrown swamps and arid deserts you leave your offspring with, you cretin, you diseased branch on the evolutionary tree.
Re:WTF? by ahde · 2001-10-25 09:22 · Score: 1

I thought you were talking about the next microsoft product line -- Windows TF
Re:WTF? by ahde · 2001-10-25 09:24 · Score: 1

I thought you were talking about the next version of microsoft's product -- Windows TF

maybe I've read alt.sex.stories(.*) too much... by StandardDeviant · 2001-10-25 01:54 · Score: 2, Funny

but "XP" sounds like a story tag[0] for extreme watersports. Given the amount that Microsoft products usually piss me off, that's probably not a wholly inaccurate interpretation of the acronym.

[0] Story tags are those little letter codes in the subject line that the author uses (ideally) to indicate what sort of things the story contains, like "mffg bdsm nc" might mean a guy, two girls, a goat and nonconsensual bondage & pain infliction. Wheee!

--

News for Geeks in Austin, TX

Re:maybe I've read alt.sex.stories(.*) too much... by mikeage · 2001-10-25 02:39 · Score: 2

Historically, the XP was often found on ancient shields of christian soldiers... XP is greek is CHi Rho... as in CHR(ist)

--
-- Is "Sig" copyrighted by www.sig.com?
Re:maybe I've read alt.sex.stories(.*) too much... by Evangelion · 2001-10-25 02:45 · Score: 1

I'm a regular reader of ASSM and thier web archive, and I don't think I've ever seen the code 'XP' used in that context.

'WS' is the code for Watersports. If one of the codes warrants an 'Extreme' quantifier, usually 'extreme' is just used as a prefix.

The only codes I can see in which the string 'XP' appear in are 'experimental' and the 'no explicit sex', umm, warning I guess (heh).

If you want to see for yourself, ASSM has a subject-line search engine on ASSTR - here.
Re:maybe I've read alt.sex.stories(.*) too much... by Jucius+Maximus · 2001-10-25 03:34 · Score: 1

"[0] Story tags are those little letter codes in the subject line that the author uses (ideally) to indicate what sort of things the story contains, like "mffg bdsm nc" might mean a guy, two girls, a goat and nonconsensual bondage & pain infliction. Wheee!"
That reminds me of CoyBoyNeal...
Re:maybe I've read alt.sex.stories(.*) too much... by Black+Parrot · 2001-10-25 03:43 · Score: 2, Funny

> "XP" sounds like a story tag[0] for extreme watersports.

I thought it was the emoticon for "dead".

--
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Re:maybe I've read alt.sex.stories(.*) too much... by soulsteal · 2001-10-25 03:44 · Score: 2

Given the amount that Microsoft products usually piss me off
Better to be pissed off than pissed on. At least in my book.
Re:maybe I've read alt.sex.stories(.*) too much... by StandardDeviant · 2001-10-25 03:59 · Score: 1

I didn't say it was a tag, I said it reminded me of one. You may find this link illuminative.

--

News for Geeks in Austin, TX
Re:maybe I've read alt.sex.stories(.*) too much... by Evangelion · 2001-10-25 04:14 · Score: 1

In order for that joke to have actually been funny, it would have to be true (or, at least, the people who were to find it funny would have to belive it was -- at least you fooled the moderators).

I had given you credit and had assumed you actually knew this, which lead me to belive that you were stating that the subject of the joke was true (that XP was indeed an a.s.s.* story code, which it is not).

Referential jokes like this are only funny because they are true -- for example, I'm sure there are going to be some riff's on AD&D's eXperience Point system in this thread, which might garner a deserved chuckle or two (which is all you were aiming for). But the presentation of the material isn't what's funny in these cases -- it's the fact that the acronym XP is showing up somewhere else. Take that fact away, and it's not funny, no matter how you present it.
Re:maybe I've read alt.sex.stories(.*) too much... by Jeremy+Erwin · 2001-10-25 04:36 · Score: 2

No, capitalization usually refers to which party is dominant, and which is submissive. So change that tag line to "mffGoat bdsm heavy nc zoo"
Re:maybe I've read alt.sex.stories(.*) too much... by StandardDeviant · 2001-10-25 05:05 · Score: 1

And that would be the sound of TWO points going over your head at high speed. Lighten up! I said it "SOUNDED LIKE" a tag, not that it "WAS A" tag. The post made at least one, maybe more, people laugh. Period, full stop. What more is a joke designed to do? If you take _humor_ too seriously (which you very obviously are doing), what else is wrong with your life? Now go say ten "penis birds" and stand on your head, it might help.

--

News for Geeks in Austin, TX
Re:maybe I've read alt.sex.stories(.*) too much... by Evangelion · 2001-10-25 05:08 · Score: 1

2) Those people probably only laughed becuase they thought that what you were saying was true.

1) As I pointed out, to someone who is actually familiar with the story codes, it sounds and looks nothing like one.
Re:maybe I've read alt.sex.stories(.*) too much... by Cro+Magnon · 2001-10-25 06:24 · Score: 1

Nonconsensual bondage & pain infliction. Yeah, that sounds like Microsoft!

--
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Re:maybe I've read alt.sex.stories(.*) too much... by Matthew+Weigel · 2001-10-25 18:11 · Score: 2

Damn it, I've got to jump in here. (hope ya don't mind Mike)

Fucking idiotic. That's what your line of thought is.

I laughed, and I don't laugh at Mike/StandardDeviants jokes much anymore. I knew that XP was not an actual story code, but it was indeed reminiscent of one (besides, any mention of mffG is funny too).

In case you were wondering, it managed to be funny because it presented a skewed view of the world, one which yet has a resonance with the world we see every day vis a vis Microsoft software being piss. It was the dip into StandardDeviant's mind, and the connections he makes between XP and Usenet. It benefits from not being true, because its intent is to show how Mike made the leap from true to not-true.

I'm only doing this because I haven't been so pedantic that my nose bleeds in a while. And StandardDeviant is usually a lot more willing to say fuck off than meet pedantry for pedantry.

--
--Matthew

Scarriest part of the article by ZaMoose · 2001-10-25 01:54 · Score: 2

...has to be the following quote:

Gates told the Associated Press: "It's a value for consumers. Why are there headlights in cars? Why don't they make you go and buy those things separately?

"If you look at the value of the stuff that's in Windows XP, compared to the stand-alone packages you'd have to buy for the equivalent, that's many hundreds of dollars," Gates said.

"And all you have to do is understand that to understand why consumers like it and why a competitor would say, 'Hey, it's too good a deal, you know, why are they offering people such a good deal?"'

Why does a car come with headlights? Well, does GM manufacture its own headlights? Nope. It "bundles" headlights from "GM-certified" suppliers, so those suppliers are still getting their money in the deal. If MS were bundling Norton Ghost or EasyCD Creator or RealPlayer or BlackIce Firewall with XP, then maybe the analogy might hold.

The thing is, most J6P's will look at Gates' statement and say "Yeah! I agree with that!" without even giving it any thought.

In order for his statement to work, GM cars would have to: 1) come with GM headlights 2) use non-standard eletrical connections for said lights so that if you decided to replace them with a competitor's superior lights, they would either break or function in a reduced capacity 3) disable the starter if you changed your lights, floormats, muffler and tires at the same time, forcing you to call GM's hotline in order to have a new set of keys sent out to you.

Sheez, I hope no automakers are reading this...

--
I wish I had a kryptonite cross, because then you could keep Dracula and Superman away.

Re:Scarriest part of the article by Unfallen · 2001-10-25 02:02 · Score: 1

Also, from the related Talking Point page at the BBC...

"It never ceases to amaze me that you Microsoft lemmings allow yourselves to be continually ripped off by Dollar Bill. If Microsoft made cars you would all happily accept that three mornings out of five you would not make it to work." - Brian S
Re:Scarriest part of the article by Anonymous Coward · 2001-10-25 02:06 · Score: 1, Informative

Um.. They are. They're including software licensed from: Disk Keeper and the people who do Easy CD, among others.

So um yea.. you're right.
Re:Scarriest part of the article by Prior+Restraint · 2001-10-25 02:37 · Score: 2

Actually, the biggest break-down in the analogy is that auto manufacturers are legally obligated to install headlights.
Re:Scarriest part of the article by maddman75 · 2001-10-25 03:25 · Score: 1

"If you look at the value of the stuff that's in Windows XP, compared to the stand-alone packages you'd have to buy for the equivalent, that's many hundreds of dollars," Gates said.

"And all you have to do is understand that to understand why consumers like it and why a competitor would say, 'Hey, it's too good a deal, you know, why are they offering people such a good deal?"'

You mean like web servers, compilers, office suites, advanced graphics programs all come with it? No, we get a crippled music player, something that I refuse to call a firewall, and a substandard CD writer. Imagine if there was an OS that gave you all the apps you needed to work right along with it! And no ridiculous registration either. Oh, wait, I'm thinking of Linux again.

Some sheeple that don't know any better will get it on an OEM computer, but I can't see many people buying it retail. I also doubt that its going to push sales much either.

--
-- When a fool hears of the Tao, he will laugh out loud.
Re:Scarriest part of the article by archen · 2001-10-25 06:04 · Score: 1

A better analogy would be buying a house and being FORCED to also buy and USE the butt ugly furniture from the 70's that came with it. You might be able to move around some of that crap furnature and put some new stuff in, but it's always going to be there.
Re:Scarriest part of the article by big_a · 2001-10-25 08:29 · Score: 1

You forgot: 4) You can upgrade your headlights, but then you'll need a fast car to use them.

Please? by depricatedFoo · 2001-10-25 01:54 · Score: 1

Well, Office XP didn't help me with this. If I spend a bazillion $ on Windows XP, do I finally get the password?? And do I have to keep registering for it??

--
.M@
--
do you use them for good, or for awesome?

Well. It's got ClearType and, uh. by dave-fu · 2001-10-25 01:54 · Score: 1

ClearType (anti-aliasing fonts; actually looks really swank) is the only good reason I can think of to buy XP.
I suspect that MS is running into the same glass ceiling that it has with Office 97: they've already put out a product that works as well as people expect and the add-ons that they're stuffing in there just aren't exciting enough to motivate people to go out and buy. Thankfully, they can artificially expire the licenses on old software, so they can thank their lawyers more than their R&D for the sales of XP.

--
Easy does it!
This comment has been submitted already, 276865 hours , 59 minutes ago. No need to try again.

We can delete files? No Kidding! by el_nino-2000 · 2001-10-25 01:55 · Score: 1

From the CNN article:
"The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive."
So I'm guessing we can't delete files now without XP? Fewer computer crashes, I doubt it. Why didn't they just say, "You can use floppy disks"

BBC report by pubjames · 2001-10-25 01:56 · Score: 2

The BBC is one of the few (or perhaps the only?) news organisations in the world with a legal obligation to be unbiased.

However, is it just me or is there a touch of sarcasm in the way the following sentence has been composed:

"I understand that, certainly, in tough economic times it is not the best time to introduce any new piece of work," he said, though he insisted that the software was very "exciting".

So Steve insisted it was very "exciting". Funny.

Re:BBC report by Howie · 2001-10-25 02:25 · Score: 1

The BBC is one of the few (or perhaps the only?) news organisations in the world with a legal obligation to be unbiased.

Really? I can see that in UK politics, since they are government-funded, but everything?

--
"don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
Re:BBC report by pubjames · 2001-10-25 02:49 · Score: 2

Really? I can see that in UK politics, since they are government-funded, but everything?

That isn't how it works. They are actually a 'public body' - they are independent of the government and funded by the people. They frequently do things (like reporting the facts) that upset whichever politican party is in power. Governments frequently try to interfere with it but luckily it is fairly well protected by the system.

They are also indepentent of any commerical entity and so cannot advertise - they are very strict about it. Presenters can't mention any company or product name outside of a news item.

I expect some of you cynical American types are thinking "Oh, yea, like that's going to work". Actually, generally it does. Like all things, it's not perfect, but it's pretty damn good.
Re:BBC report by Howie · 2001-10-25 03:12 · Score: 1

I'm a cynical brit, rather than a cynical American, but I have to be honest and say I didn't know how the BBC's funding is actually done. I agree that it's a damn sight better than PBS as an example of independent TV though.

--
"don't fall into the fallacy of believing that Perl can solve social problems. Maybe Perl 6 can, but that's a ways off"
Re:BBC report by pubjames · 2001-10-25 03:13 · Score: 2

From the BBC's web site:

The BBC's Editorial Values:

"We aim to be the world's most creative and trusted broadcaster and programme maker, seeking to satisfy all our audiences with services that inform, educate and entertain and enrich their lives in the ways that the market alone will not. We aim to be guided by our public purposes; to encourage the UK's most innovative talents; to act independently of all interests, and to aspire to the highest ethical standards:"

Notice to act independently of all interests. Also the BBC's charter makes numerous references to its independence.
Re:BBC report by pubjames · 2001-10-25 03:16 · Score: 2

I'm a cynical brit, rather than a cynical American, but I have to be honest and say I didn't know how the BBC's funding is actually done.

If you're a Brit with a TV then don't you pay a license fee? That's where the funding comes from. Actually it's a bit more complex than that, but the important thing is the BBCs independence.
Re:BBC report by Sentry21 · 2001-10-25 08:31 · Score: 1

I don't know if the CBC is legally obligated to be unbiased, though it is government-owned and seems to do pretty well most of the time.

Their article, Microsoft rolls out the hype again with Windows XP, though, seems to be pretty unbiased. I just like the headline.

--Dan

its accually really nice by updatelee · 2001-10-25 01:56 · Score: 1

I have XP Professional installed, I have to say its accually their nicesest OS yet. easy to use, feature rich (built in firewall), and fast too. Its alot faster then win 2000.

I use OpenBSD for my server, its just not practical for a workstation. Windows XP is much better suited for that.

Chris Lee
lee@mediawaveonline.com

And Uttles has left the building by Uttles · 2001-10-25 01:56 · Score: 2

All of the news about XP over the last few months describing all of the ways Microsoft is continuing to be a software bully and stifling competition, resulting in me, the end user, getting less "cool stuff" for my windows PC has resulted in this: XP is the last straw. I am switching over to Linux as my primary platform and using Windows 2000 as a backup on a small partition. I've worked with Unix before and my roomate is an expert on Linux so I think I'll be able to pick it up and become a power user in no time. Given the small amount of time I actually use my computer at home and the amount of work it will take to get all of my devices working under Linux I didn't want to make that sort of investment in learning a new, more powerful OS that requires me to manually configure everything, but I am so disgusted with Microsoft that I am now willing to do so. If you don't really care what OS I use, fine, sorry to waste your time, but for those of you Linux lovers out there I thought you would be happy to know that Microsoft is actually driving people away, and making Linux stronger, just by being the evil company they are.

--

~ now you know

Re:And Uttles has left the building by Shanep · 2001-10-25 05:07 · Score: 1

more powerful OS that requires me to manually configure everything

Tom, I started out with Red Hat 5.0. I heard this type of gripe in the newgroups, etc back then, but when I installed RH5 I was shocked that getting it going was'nt as bad as I'd heard. My Matrox G200 did'nt work too well, I think 5.1 fixed that, but as far as setting everything up goes, it was OK. Even my ISA AWE32 was easy to set up, with Linus pronouncing Lee-Nooks Lee-Nooks.

But now!... (admitedly I don't use the AWE32 any more) if you have PCI and AGP gear, you should be fine. I never need to config any hardware besides video setup for X, which consists of choosing my card, monitor refresh rates, and desired resolutions. My PCI Sound (MaestroII), 10/100 NIC (Tulip), Mouse (Logitech optical PS/2+USB), Ultra SCSI (Adaptec), etc all get probed and configured at boot time and just work.

Choose the right distro and ALL of it (inc X+video card) will get probed and set up during install. Mandrake would be a nice place to start for a newbie (hell, I like the fact that Mandrake lets you set up and install to software RAID!). I have settled on Debian, though I think Mandrake is the go for newbies who want to get into some quick action to see what Linux has got to offer before deciding to put in the effort to learn what's under the hood. I'd advocate Progeny at the moment if it were'nt for the fact that I had problems with the slightly flakey installer and since it might be worth waiting for Progeny to melt back into Debian.

Enjoy!

PS, the PS/2 mouse port is /dev/psaux, COM1+2 are /dev/ttyS0 and /dev/ttyS1, LPT1 is /dev/par0. IDE drives are /dev/hd*# where * is a (Primary Master), b (Primary Slave), c (Secondary Master), d (Secondary Slave) and # is the partition number on that drive. So /dev/hdc8 would be the 8th partition of the Secondary Master IDE drive. If X dies, try Ctrl-Alt-BackSpace or Ctrl-Alt-F(1-6) and always make a habit of shutting down gracefully (shutdown now from a prompt or xdm should give you an option). wvdial is nice for getting on the net and if you have trouble otherwise with ppp, defaultroute might be something you need. ; )

If all else fails, get a Mac and OSX!

--
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?

Time to "Launch" XP by Pinball+Wizard · 2001-10-25 01:57 · Score: 2

It's nifty and all, but I just can't see businesses using software that has the potential to shut itself down(intentionally, anyway).

I'm starting to see more and more "normal" people like my parents and grandparents become aware of Microsoft's bullying business tactics. They couple what they've heard about Microsoft will the fact that Microsoft will force them to register their software online and are saying "no, thanks".

As is obvious to most of us, Microsoft needs some real competition. Its only occurred to me recently that the average Joe on the street is starting to realize they need real competition to stop them from bullying everyone from their suppliers to their customers.

Unfortunately, I can't yet recommend my grandma, who has trouble enough figuring out the intricacies of the mouse, that she go to something like linux. A Mac might be nice, however it would likely cost double what her PC cost.

The demand is definitely there for Microsoft to have some real competition, because nobody likes to be bullied. I wonder who will finally give it to them?

--

No, Thursday's out. How about never - is never good for you?

From a technical standpoint.. by Junta · 2001-10-25 01:57 · Score: 2

I think it is a pretty good OS, far better than 9x based systems. The UI is interesting, though I'm not sure it's worth the performance hit. At least they offer the old interface. No point of upgrading from W2k unless you either really like the new UI, or need multimedia support... As for the UI, http://www.stardock.com/ has some interesting ways of refreshing that old win98 look, with Windowblinds and DesktopX.
What really puts me off is the licensing. I do relatively frequent changes to my hardware. I don't feel like frequently requesting activation code and therefore be flagged as suspicious. If it would truly be a one time thing to me, I wouldn't care so much, but asking Microsoft before I can actually use any upgrades I buy would suck.
For now, I'll stick with W2k for when I *absolutely* need Windows, and Linux for everyday purposes.
(BTW, my evaluation of Windows XP is based on a nice official beta I installed for a while before zapping it with W2k again)

--
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.

the real meaning of XP by clarkie.mg · 2001-10-25 01:57 · Score: 3, Troll

Ok let's go.

1. XP is for eXPensive
Never in the history of the PC has the part of the operating system been so pricey.

2. XP is for eXPires
Microsoft has invented the software that eXPires as the customer can only install the software a certain number of times. If you have a virus, need to upgrade your hard drive, want to clean up your HD, add another component, change PC or any other reason to install, your software gets closed to death.

3. XP is for eXPloit
Knowing the care microsoft gives to security, this meaning is close to become reality.

4. XP is for eXPlosion
eXPlosion of Denial of Service (DoS) attacks as windows XP gives raw socket acces to the mass of home users. (read http://grc.com/dos/winxp.htm and http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/19332.html)

5. XP is for eXPected
It took 10 years to microsoft to deliver a operating system that doesn't crash or need a reboot multiple times a day. At last !

6. XP is for linuXPreferred
For all the above reasons.

Any other ideas ?

--
Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education. Bertrand Russel

Re:the real meaning of XP by sconest · 2001-10-25 02:13 · Score: 1

One I saw weeks ago : eXperience Problems

--
Guvf vf abg n EBG zrffntr
Re:the real meaning of XP by runlvl0 · 2001-10-25 02:34 · Score: 1

eXtra Profits.

Carthago Delinda Est

--

Carthago delenda est!
Re:the real meaning of XP by Anonymous Coward · 2001-10-25 03:47 · Score: 3, Funny

It's a smiley. Pronounced "Windows Bleh".
Re:the real meaning of XP by Spooky+Possum · 2001-10-25 03:47 · Score: 1

I always think of it as meaning eXPerimental.
Re:the real meaning of XP by NRLax27 · 2001-10-25 03:49 · Score: 1

1. XP is for eXPensive
Never in the history of the PC has the part of the operating system been so pricey

$99 for the upgrade? Actually Win95, 98, 98SE, ME, 2000, NT were all this expensive.

2. XP is for eXPires
Microsoft has invented the software that eXPires as the customer can only install the software a certain number of times

There is no limit to the number of times you can install. Just as long as you're not installing it on different computers every time.
Re:the real meaning of XP by scruffy · 2001-10-25 03:54 · Score: 2

Microsoft taX Pay for any computer you buy.
eXPose your personal data to Microsoft.
eXPress outrage at anything Microsoft.
Re:the real meaning of XP by NeuroManson · 2001-10-25 04:45 · Score: 1

AND of course there's those who snagged a copy of WinXP Pro Build 2600 (ironic, yes?), which for the most part is free... $99 for an upgrade is cheap, but eh, I am apprehensive, despite having a copy, and having a friend who designed the starscream 68x emulated CPU telling me that it's incredibly good... I dunno, took me 6 months past the date that Win2K was released til I felt confident enough to play with it...

--
Just because you can mod me down, doesn't mean you're right. Shoes for industry!
Re:the real meaning of XP by Simulant · 2001-10-25 05:55 · Score: 1

eXtra Programs (that don't work nearly as well as offerings from 3rd partys who will eventually be put out of business)
Re:the real meaning of XP by Andrewkov · 2001-10-25 06:19 · Score: 2

Haha, good one!

This is your brain... :-)
This is your brain on Windows... X-P

I think you figured it out!
Re:the real meaning of XP by hatchet · 2001-10-25 06:21 · Score: 1

There is no limit to the number of times you can install. Just as long as you're not installing it on different computers every time.
Actually.. only winXP home version has this expiration. however winXP professional doesn't have such "protection". WinXP will be most pirated version of windows yet... mostly because of it's price (I would give $20 at most for such OS.. and MS would still have 200% profit) and because final (build 2600) professional version was on warez ftpz almost 2 months before offical release. winXP has bunch of bugs... some of them are almost critical (HPT366 controller driver support at boot for example).. that's why MS is almost done with Service Pack1.
Re:the real meaning of XP by Tom7 · 2001-10-25 06:54 · Score: 2

heh heh, cute.

I dunno about XPloit, though. It comes with a built-in firewall, and I'm positive it's more secure in the default installation than Redhat is.

Also, 98 and NT have always had the ability to spoof IPs and bind to raw sockets. (see http://www.grcsucks.com/)
Re:the real meaning of XP by 23_Elders · 2001-10-25 07:29 · Score: 1

XP also stands for eXperience Points, which you lose by switching to this OS. I have heard of 10th level hackers actually falling back down to 8th! Horrible.
Re:the real meaning of XP by anotherbadassmf · 2001-10-25 11:09 · Score: 1

When people ask me what I stands for I always say "eXcrement Powered", usually getting blank stares and replies of "oh ...".

Oh well, just doing my bit.

Only Just Arrived? by gagravarr · 2001-10-25 01:57 · Score: 1

I thought it'd been released several days back. Maybe its just because on monday I went to help someone with problems burning a CD, and it turned out to be an ISO of WinXP they'd downloaded off a warez site over the weekend...
Hmm, here's a thought, I wonder if the version he downloaded had the stupid activation feature on it, or if it's been cracked already!

--
This post will enter the public domain 70 years after my death, unless Disney buys another extension.

My, the Emporer's new cloths look mahvalous!! by ch-chuck · 2001-10-25 01:58 · Score: 2

Absolutely mahvalous!!

Actually I'm dying to ditch WinME/9x but they're going to be out there for a long time yet, untill the ROI is paid off. Sorry, that's the way most industry works. Once a business sinks so much capital into IT infrastructure they just keep using it untill depreciated (5 years I think) or it has paid for itself. Not every company can afford to buy all new systems every two or three years.

--
try { do() || do_not(); } catch (JediException err) { yoda(err); }

Alternate Madonna theme songs by shut_up_man · 2001-10-25 01:58 · Score: 2

I really don't like Madonna's songs, so here goes:

Alternate XP Theme Songs from Madonna

Dress You Up (but you're still dodgy)
Burning Up (my bank account)
Deeper & Deeper (into MS's pocket)
Borderline (antitrust violation)
Material Girl (looking pretty but costing heaps)

shut up man

Got Headlights? by bubbha · 2001-10-25 01:59 · Score: 1

Gates told the Associated Press: "It's a value for consumers. Why are there headlights in cars? Why don't they make you go and buy those things separately?

What a staggering analogy! Lets continue. If I do not like my current headlights, I can go to the auto parts store and pick from a wide variety of different headlights and easily put them in myself. And by the way, one thing I would never do is go back to the dealership and have them install new headlights - cause as George Kostanza says, ...you get the "scroogie"

--
I want to be alone with the sandwich

Re:Got Headlights? by Wyatt+Earp · 2001-10-25 02:32 · Score: 2

Once again Bill Gates and the other...Executives at Microsoft come up with an analogy that is bordering on the moronic, and the media eats it up.

Why are there headlights in cars? Because there are laws mandating them. Same goes for tail lights. Up until the 1930s, headlights and tail lights were options. Yep for more than 30 years you could buy a car with out either of them, same goes for seat belts until the 1970s in the US.

Why doesn't Bill Gates know this? Because he's so protected from reality and so isolated he either has lost what common sense he had, or he's being spoon fed all these soundbites from his handlers.

I've never met a Microsoftie, are there any here that can tell me - Are Bill Gates and the other MS execs losing IQ points like a Mind Flayer was sitting on thier head, or is everything spun there?
Re:Got Headlights? by Keith+Russell · 2001-10-25 06:20 · Score: 2

...bordering on the moronic, and the media eats it up. ...Why doesn't Bill Gates know this?

You answered your own question. Gates is pulling CNN's strings like a master puppeteer. Microsoft has always thrived on the inexperience of the masses.

--
This sig intentionally left blank.

Upgrading by rbeattie · 2001-10-25 01:59 · Score: 1

I think I'll probably be upgrading my Win2k... but only after that pesky copy-protection bug has been fixed by someone first.

-Russ

--
Me

cnn interview by jfessler · 2001-10-25 02:00 · Score: 1

Surely someone else saw Zahn's (sp?) interview with Gates this a.m., so please back me up. I could have sworn that Bill said something to the effect that "one of the nice things about the internet is that you have lots of interested people looking for security flaws". I didn't catch the follow-on, but could that have been some kind of unintented compliment to open source? Has anyone looked for pods in Bill's basement?

Xtra Profits (nt) by Rai · 2001-10-25 02:00 · Score: 1

no text.

(damn /. lameness filter wouldn't accept 'nt')

Forced Registration System by libertynews · 2001-10-25 02:00 · Score: 1

I'm not going to be upgrading to any OS that forces me to register it with the central authorities. Who knows what they are sending in for your 'registration'. For that matter who knows what other things its going to be sending. Has anyone put a sniffer on XF yet?

--
Remember Lexington Green!

Re:Forced Registration System by oni · 2001-10-25 02:32 · Score: 2

As I haven't upgraded, I don't know what the process is like, but what I don't understand is why anyone would ever put thier name in the OS to begin with. When it asks for your name can't you just enter John Doe?

The hacked copies by SilentChris · 2001-10-25 02:01 · Score: 2

I'm sure I'm not the only one who's noticed this, but a heads-up to everyone else: there is indeed a way to get "hacked" copies of XP, without the activation. The key was to take a combination of the corporate edition (which doesn't have activation), coupled with a corporate key. The original copies circulating around the web required massive hacks to defeat activation (in the final releases of the "normal" Pro code) and the timebomb (in the RC releases).

Our company purchased an "Open License" for XP for about 200 users, so naturally I put one on my mobile laptop. The OS is actually suprising in some areas, irritating in others. The compatibility is a nice touch for those who have been running W2K (and couldn't get all their games to work); and the Start menu is more functional now than it was before. The Control Panel has become less intuitive, though.

Back to what I was saying: all you need is a copy of the corporate edition (which never asks for activation) and a corporate key. I have my machine booting corporate edition XP and Mandrake 8.1. I couldn't be happier.

You're all missing the point by Erore · 2001-10-25 02:01 · Score: 1

The point is: Sting, my favorite musician, is backing Microsoft. He is doing a free concert in a New York park to help promote this software launch.

Sting, Sting, Sting, where did you go wrong? From Amnesty International to the Rainforest Foundation, you were a backer of the downtrodden, the underdogs. How could you turn on us and promote that Monopolistic company called Microsoft?

Sadly, I'm having to believe that you were suckered in by a million dollar endorsement. Same as Madonna. My fiancee is crushed by Madonna joining with MS, I am devasted by Sting.

Oh the humanity!

Re:You're all missing the point by richieb · 2001-10-25 02:30 · Score: 1

Bah! Since leaving the Police Sting has become an obnoxious bore(!). And now he is doing for money.

...richie

--
...richie - It is a good day to code.

Myst and Riven by richieb · 2001-10-25 02:02 · Score: 1

Does XP run Myst and Riven? If not, it's useless to me.

...richie

--
...richie - It is a good day to code.

Re:Myst and Riven by ConceptJunkie · 2001-10-25 03:13 · Score: 1

Since installing XP on my laptop, I almost never have to boot into Windows 98 for games any more, which is after all, the _only_ sane reason to use Windows 98 (err, Windows 4.1)

As far as the new look-and-feel: a couple of quick clicks and your desktop no longer looks like the Candyland game.

--
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.
Re:Myst and Riven by richieb · 2001-10-25 14:49 · Score: 1

But you didn't answer my question. I'm updating an older machine for my son to run '98 (what a pain!) and I'm curious if I should pay my MS Tax and get XP. But this machine must run Myst and Riven, plus some old DOS games...

...richie

--
...richie - It is a good day to code.
Re:Myst and Riven by ConceptJunkie · 2001-10-26 04:18 · Score: 2

Well, what I was trying say was that I have found very few Windows 9x programs that don't run under XP RC2. (I don't have the shipping version yet.)

I would bet that Myst and Riven work fine. DOS games are lot more iffy, although I can vouch that the old IBM classic "Alley Cat" from 1984 runs under XP. :)

I have found the occasional lack of backwards compatibility of NT is far outweighed by having a real OS that is pretty stable, and all Microsoft-bashing aside, doesn't suck.

If you are at all a technically oriented user, then go with XP. If all you do is surf, e-mail and play a few games, then 98 is passable.

--
You are in a maze of twisty little passages, all alike.

And yet, somehow... by Akardam · 2001-10-25 02:02 · Score: 1

... life goes on.

Leveraging XP's acronym by smaughster · 2001-10-25 02:02 · Score: 2

We have a nice oppurtunity to influence all VB scripters and turn them away from M$! It's easy, you can help too. If you see a clueless person in the bookstore, looking for "Programming XP in 24 hours", step up to them, smile and show them the shelf with eXtreme Programming.

--
I intend to live forever, so far so good.

Futureshop add by Nos. · 2001-10-25 02:03 · Score: 2, Flamebait

Saw an add last night from Futureshop. Along with your purchase of Windows XP, they're offering 128MB Ram, and McAfee Virus Scan. You can see the promotion on their website. I find this quite funny. If you're going to run XP, you need more memory and a virus scanner!

Headlights and software by Mike+Schiraldi · 2001-10-25 02:03 · Score: 2

Gates told the Associated Press: "It's a value for consumers. Why are there headlights in cars? Why don't they make you go and buy those things separately?

Because people don't buy cars the way they buy computers. When you go to an auto dealership, they sell you the car more or less exactly as it came from the factory. If headlights were sold seperately, the auto dealer would have to have a manufacturing plant on the premises.

But when you buy a computer, and call up Dell, they DO buy all the seperate parts and put it all together. Including the software. It would be trivial for them to install, say, Bob's Media Player instead of WMA.

Additionally, there's nothing stopping an auto dealer from pulling out the headlights the cars come with and putting in new ones. Dell is legally and technologically barred from doing that with XP's bundled software.

Okay, now go ahead and post the "if cars were OSes" joke.

--

--
Mod up a post Rob doesn't like and you'll never mod again

I'm running XP right now by WildBeast · 2001-10-25 02:03 · Score: 1

Just installed it today and it's pretty good actually. Their's no doubt that it's extremely easy to use and for a lazy guy like me, that's damn good.

Marketing's all Bill's got left. by SgtChaireBourne · 2001-10-25 02:03 · Score: 3, Informative

Microsoft's revenue streams are in danger of drying up unless they can get a lock on people through MS-Passport. MS can leverage Hotmail and other online services by purchasing them and forcing migration to MS-Passport, but that can only happen on the desktop through upgrades to XP.

XP has improvements, but there's no exciting reason to upgrade. Plus, with all of the security concerns finally ,the press release the other week coming down on publishing exploits is a tacit admisision that MS products can compete in a real world security environment.

So they have to compete through saturation advertising. The Register has had a few articles over the last few weeks. Here's last weeks warning about the salvo we're experiencing : Microsoft will kick off a $200 million marketing campaign on Monday 15 October to create consumer awareness of upcoming Windows XP. They also explained how MS was able to insert a press release into Reuters.

--
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.

Re:Marketing's all Bill's got left. by melvin22 · 2001-10-25 05:21 · Score: 1

Marketing is all he ever had...

A MORE Stable MS OS by Viceice · 2001-10-25 02:04 · Score: 1

Microsoft has a more stable OS.. It's called DOS.
(It may have something to do witht the fact that they didn't really write it themselves but bought it and modifyed it)

:)

--
Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.

For all of the clueless kids out there... by NineNine · 2001-10-25 02:04 · Score: 1

...who are saying "why should I upgrade my Win 95/98/ME" install. Please read a bit. XP is NT/W2K. NT/W2K has ALWAYS been much more stable, and much faster than the old DOS crap you're used to using. XP/W2K/NT is 100% different from Win 95/98/ME. This is NOT a gui on top of DOS. This is a real OS.

Linus forks the kernel? by gunnerbunny · 2001-10-25 02:04 · Score: 1

I think it's probably just a rumor, from everything I've read about Linus's views on XP....he doesn't care. He seems to be more interested in Linuxdevelopment than XP marketing ^_^ Just a thought

--
"that which does not kill me makes me bitter" -anon

Effectively solving a problem that doesn't exist by ALecs · 2001-10-25 02:05 · Score: 1

So I'm puzzled by that CNN article. It goes on and on about people hoping this will cause the sales of new PCs to pick up. I'm curious about this.

OK, we all know that the only reason to buy a new PC is when you can't enough FPS in Quake{x} but why do other people buy new PCs? Well, I guess games are important for them too, but what else is there? Besides, it's not like most slashdotters buy mass-market PCs anyway -- we build 'em.

I guess I'm a bit burned by the fact that the article seems to welcome an OS that will make people buys new PCs. Shouldn't we, in this economy, be wanting something that keeps us from having to buy a new PC? Or is the economy going to be helped by people spending what little money they have for no reason?

I, myself, haven't upgraded my PC in 3 years - and that's a LONG time for me. I'm running the K6-2/300 that I bought before my junior year of college. Sure, it's too slow to run Quake3 and I'm finally starting to run out of space on my 8GB hard drive, but it's a great machine. It runs FreeBSD and BeOS and Windows98 and plays Quakeworld (my all-time favorite DM game) great on its Voodoo Banshee (besides, I do all my real coding work on my Sun, anyway). Am I the norm or the exception these days among the average computer user?

Is buying new PCs really good for the economy?

Can't afford to loose grip by arminh1974 · 2001-10-25 02:05 · Score: 1

I don't know how the rest of you feel, but I feel like I just need to keep up. How can I retain my rep as the neighbourhood computer-geek if I don't know about what the common mass thinks is the latest and greatest? I try very hard to get more and more Linux-boxes assembled around me, but it'll be a while until being the local Linux-geek is a respected commodity. At least I never used AOL. That must be worth something, too.

Funny comment by Rob.Mathers · 2001-10-25 02:05 · Score: 1

I happen to like this quote (from the CNN article): "Microsoft, the world's largest software maker, decided to bundle an unprecedented number of applications, such as a Web browser, an e-mail program, an instant messenger and a digital photo editor." Since when is this a)news, and b)a good thing(tm)? MS has had web browsers and email programs from the first release of 95, digital photo editors since 98SE, and MSN Messenger has been available for free d/l for at least 2 years. From most (informed) articles, XP (home and pro) is loaded with more applications than ever, 80-90% of which can't be removed. I see this as a serious mistake by MS in terms of selling XP Pro as an OS for serious business use. Any sensible IT manager isn't going to want all that bloat-ware on each and every machine. I know i wouldn't.

--

My other sig is funny!

Re: Funny Comment by Laplace · 2001-10-25 03:02 · Score: 2

In other news SuSE Linux ships with over 1500 applications, such as a several Web browsers, several e-mail programs, lots of instant messengers, a variety of digital photo editors, music recording and playback software, a full development suite with the most advanced set of languages, tools, and debuggers; half a dozen themable desktops, several office suites, and an assortment of games to keep the user amused for hours on end. Did I forget to mention that this OS can be put on as many computers as the user wishes, and is not burdened by overly restrictive licenses. For the corporate user, it comes with a full range of networking and security tools.

--
The middle mind speaks!

Blue Screen of Un Oh! by Rai · 2001-10-25 02:06 · Score: 2, Funny

with the new pre-school-type GUI, they have the Blue Screen of Uh Oh!

GOOD news!!! by the_2nd_coming · 2001-10-25 02:06 · Score: 3, Interesting

Howard Stern was talking about Win XP and he decided that there was no compeling reason for him to buy it, then when a caller told him about how you could only put it on one computer per copy, he said "well screw that!!" I was excited, do you know howmany not computer literate people listen to him and take his opinion to heart? not to mention that XP just got some negitive press in popular media....

I am so happy.... :-)

--

I am the Alpha and the Omega-3

Re:GOOD news!!! by WildBeast · 2001-10-25 02:12 · Score: 1

but the guy didn't tell him about the pictures Slide Show feature. I bet it would be very handy for his huge porn collection.

Sure did get some negative press from AOL/Time Warner.
Re:GOOD news!!! by haggar · 2001-10-25 15:27 · Score: 1

Howard Stern seems to be a guy with the priorities in the right place. I am glad he will resist to the WinXP assimilation.

--
Sigged!
Re:GOOD news!!! by Thing+1 · 2001-10-25 17:44 · Score: 1

Here's my response to reading your post; I consider it energy well-spent. Hopefully more of you can repeat the message. I sent it to howard@howardstern.com , which may or may not be him but hopefully defaults to a catch-all that someone is reading.
Howard (I know this isn't Howard, it probably goes to a default@howardstern.com -- please pass this on to him),
I saw you mentioned on Slashdot tonight: http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=23009&cid=2477 192
Is that true? If you said "well screw that!" for Windows XP, perhaps you'd be interested in Linux, which can be downloaded freely from the Internet! You can install it on as many computers as you want to; there essentially is no license to violate (there's a license, but it's completely different -- the GPL http://www.fsf.org , which simply says that if you make changes and sell the changes, you have to provide the source code with it). And the complete source code is available, for free!
There's a new company, Lindows.com, http://www.lindows.com which is rewriting Windows from scratch, so they can run Windows games under Linux. Many programs already run under Linux, using an emulator called WINE http://www.winehq.org which can handle 90% of the Windows calls -- and which is constantly being improved, a new version being released every two weeks.
It would help your listeners greatly if you would mention this. The alternative is free, and open -- it comes with the source code, so if there's a bug, or a feature you'd like to see, you (or someone you pay) can easily modify the source. No waiting on hold with Microsoft Tech Support and being ignored because your problem isn't important enough. Any programming shop can fix your problem.
Most Windows programs already run on Linux, and it's only going to improve from here! I have no financial interest in this (I'm retired), I simply want to help your listeners make the better choice. Those with cable modems or DSL can download a CD image in 10-20 minutes, then burn it onto a CD and install it on all their friend's computers, completely legally.
Freedom is killer. That's what this country was based on. Especially in these unstable times, we need to protect freedom. Please help spread the message -- there's a free alternative.
Thanks,
Thing 1
PS It would be really cool to have recordings of your shows available on your web site. I'd love to hear the segment where you discussed Windows XP. Please consider it. You could even sell ad space in the recordings, for a separate revenue stream. Sure, some people will FF through them, but most will have it on while doing other things. I can help set this up if you like.
PPS You may also want to let your listeners know about the piece of legislation Senator Hollings is embarrased to discuss, but is promoting because of payments from the entertainment industry. It's called the SSSCA, and will kill the technology industry -- all digital devices will be required to have strong copy protection, which means writing "hello world" will require a Computer Science degree to protect the output. It also means the death of the open source industry, which is what created Linux. It's a response to the Napster-like ability of all media to be digitally transmitted, at no cost, with perfect copies. It's a new world; just as we lost the buggy whip industry when automobiles came around, we will lose the "media conglomerates" -- but they'll try to stop progress by buying legislation, and that hurts everybody. Imagine if you couldn't make mix tapes. That's their future. Again, choose freedom. Thanks.

--
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.

What a system! by Jim+Hall · 2001-10-25 02:07 · Score: 1

From the article: The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive.

Wow! What a feature that Microsoft has added. I might have been happy with a new version of Windows that crashed less, but now I can delete data from my hard disk!

So I guess Windows has been write-only up 'til now.

Cleartype by Francis · 2001-10-25 02:07 · Score: 1

Y'know, when I installed W2K I thought Microsoft finally made an operating system that was "Good Enough". It was reasonably stable, and it did what I needed. Video games, development, office apps. It was as easy to use as Win95 (What the hell do you mean, "Robin Drive failed?") and as stable as NT4.

And I could make it as pretty as I wanted, with Windowblinds without giving up a nice bash prompt and emacs.

I swore I'd never upgrade Windows again. Now they have Windows XP. New technology, multi-user, blablabla. I thought nothing short of support for ext2fs would make me upgrade. I was wrong.

ONE new feature that is absolutely essential if you have an LCD screen. (ie. a laptop) Cleartype filtering. So much nicer on the eyes. Text has never looked so good.

Overview of Cleartype & Links
Some samples

--

--
#include <malloc.h>
free(your.mind);

Re:Cleartype by i_am_nitrogen · 2001-10-25 03:41 · Score: 1

This has been in XFree86 for quite some time now (although it's not called ClearType). Have a look around XFree86.org. It has a much more detailed explanation of it. It actually gives some numbers.

--
A solution to the problem with music today
Re:Cleartype by i_am_nitrogen · 2001-10-25 04:41 · Score: 1

Fonts look like crap in Linux because the fonts themselves are crappy, as well as the programs that use them. With freetype2 and anti-aliased rendering, fonts look great, especially in DirectFB. It's mostly Netscape Navigator that has font problems, and nobody in their right mind would use Netscape Navigator now that there's Galeon, Mozilla, Konqueror, etc.

--
A solution to the problem with music today
Re:Cleartype by theancient2 · 2001-10-25 05:42 · Score: 1

Even if you don't have an LCD screen, ClearType looks great. You just have to enable it manually (in Display properties somewhere.)
Re:Cleartype by brinkster · 2001-10-25 06:30 · Score: 1

Put Xft.rgba: rgb in your .Xdefaults file to turn on sub pixel rendering for X. Works in KDE only though I think.
Re:Cleartype by be-fan · 2001-10-25 14:31 · Score: 2

I have a question. I've heard about enabling the hinter code, but how do you do it? Do you recompile XFree86, since it provides its own Freetype module?

--
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...

Consumer Features by budGibson · 2001-10-25 02:07 · Score: 1

ZDNET has a good article on XP from a number of perspectives, including corporate and consumer. The most telling thing about the article and anyone's experience with recent Microsoft products is the extent to which they constantly try to suck you into:

Spending more money.

Revealing personal information about yourself, so that they can get you to spend more money.

I contrast this with my recent experience installing Redhat 7.2 with KDE on a new system. I started using Konqueror and KMail. I was stunned to find Konqueror recommending to me that I could accept and reject easily whole classes of cookies. Bye-bye doubleclick, bye-bye aol. KMail even will let you refuse at a relatively fine-grained level features of html that may allow people to track you.

Now, those are what I call *consumer* features. Microsoft is not giving me a better consumer experience. They are giving me a better pick-pocket experience.

So, why hasn't the home user stormed to linux (and KDE; maybe gnome and nautilus, but for me the performance with the latter is just not there yet). There may be many reasons. Let me offer what I think is one part of the puzzle. It's a question of ease-of-system install and maintenance. For instance, until the most recent install of redhat, I had always gone through hell getting both gnome and kde to work in a reasonable way. Further, with earlier versions of KDE, the tools were just immature. When I updated, I was frequently told I could not because of incompatibilities that could take a long time to track down (I am an advanced end-user who came to system administration to improve my end-user experience).

I really think redhat and other distros have a case to be made as the true promoters of end-users. With easier to install and maintain distros, they might be able to make a market of this.

Note: I purposely left out the office suite thing. Alot of people just use their home computers for fun and attempt to leave the office at work. Sure, office suites are probably still important. I just wanted to point out something that I don't think many people have seen (or at least exclaimed loudly) the benefit of.

Re:Consumer Features by mccalli · 2001-10-25 02:37 · Score: 1

I was stunned to find Konqueror recommending to me that I could accept and reject easily whole classes of cookies.

IE 6.0 will also allow that.

Not meant antagonistically, I mostly agree with your post. I personally can't use Linux full time due to the lack of finance, DVD player and MIDI composition apps. However, I do keep an eye on things and I certainly use Linux for my server and for development.
Re:Consumer Features by budGibson · 2001-10-25 08:56 · Score: 1

Haven't tried IE 6. Note the new file not found feature where it sends you to Microsoft. Taco has been pushing Konqueror. I really like these KDE choice features, particularly since they are not motivated by a desire to do in a competitor, and therefore subject to going away when the competitor does.

I'm mainly basing my observations on my recent experiences with dellnet and IE 5.5. I too cannot just use linux, mainly because I like wysiwyg html editing with dreamweaver and drawing with illustrator.

Nothing realy new by VEGETA_GT · 2001-10-25 02:08 · Score: 1

If you look at the new features in winXP, we see a few little things like a basic pic editing but nothing really that important.

selling points are (as per Microsoft site)

Reliable
High Performance
Secure
Easy to Use

This sounds like the marketing for win 2000. Well Be honest its true for win 2000 but its probably true for xp, but that's because XP is based on win 2000 which is based on NT 4.

Tools for the digital age (as per Microsoft site) are

Enjoy complete digital media support
Get the ultimate communication tool
Go mobile
Access files and applications remotely
Get help and support when you need it most

Wow can't I do this with win 2000, dam right I can. There is nothing really new here and that's all there is to it. We have 2 lines of OS from Microsoft, ME built from 98, built from 95 built from 3.1. And NT to 2000 to XP. Microsoft came up with the original programs a long time ago an just been modifying the hell out of them. Yes they have improved them, but that's to be expected. I want to see some Innovation from these guys in there OS. Not just this new XP, which compared to the older systems just looks more childish on the initial install

my 2 cents plus 2 more

XP Security Holes by gunnerbunny · 2001-10-25 02:10 · Score: 1

It occurs to me that there was a big issue a while back on how security holes had already been discovered in XP and yet Microsoft forged ahead with plans for launch (no big surprise there). But Ihave been curious as to the nature of these holes. I'm an asst. net admin and I was unimpressed with theprofessional release of XP we recieved but I am interested to know...Can anyone provide concrete information on the nature of XP security issues?

--
"that which does not kill me makes me bitter" -anon

Re:XP Security Holes by clarkie.mg · 2001-10-25 02:27 · Score: 1

I have two links to stories about the problem of raw socket access in windows XP :

http://grc.com/dos/winxp.htm
and
http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/19332.html

The first one is very detailed. An absolute must read.

The problem for the windows XP user is that his system may be used as a kind of relay for network attacks. Hence, slodowns and the possibility to be banned from the network.

--
Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education. Bertrand Russel

Be careful by ryanvm · 2001-10-25 02:11 · Score: 2

I find it amusing that I didn't really even notice until I saw this submission.

Yeah, yeah, we get it: Slashdot==Linux.

But really, there is something disturbingly naive about whistling down the street not giving Microsoft a second thought; all the while they're plotting some serious hardship for your baby (Linux).

Just because you don't think about Microsoft doesn't mean they don't think about you.

Re:Be careful by Legion303 · 2001-10-25 05:49 · Score: 1

Well, I didn't notice the release either, and I actually use Windows (or admit it, at least). It has more to do with the fact that everyone I know who was interested in XP has had a pirated copy of some form (alpha, RCs, RTMs...) for months now. Why should the fact that it's on the shelves make any difference whatsoever?
For the record, I'm sticking with Win98SE. It sucks much less than the other MS offerings (Win2K zealots need not respond). I can boot into 98 natively when I need to play games, and run it in vmware when I want mIRC and other programs that don't need native speed or graphics power. As far as I'm concerned, XP isn't even worth pirating.
-Legion

That's too funny ... by CaptIronfist · 2001-10-25 02:12 · Score: 1

The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive.

nough said ...

or eXtrem Perl | Re:Leveraging XP's acronym by clarkie.mg · 2001-10-25 02:12 · Score: 1

Or point your VB scripters to eXtreme Perl :

http://www.bad-managers.com/rumours/story031.shtml

--
Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education. Bertrand Russel

what a dumbass... by destiney · 2001-10-25 02:12 · Score: 1

Taco, you're an idiot... always acting like you don't use windoze. You're so fake! Grow up man...

Not a good start to the artice. by Tsujigiri · 2001-10-25 02:13 · Score: 2

I don't know what kind of coverage they were hoping for with this article, but I'd have to say that the first paragraph made me think that there wasn't much to the new release:

The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive.

struck me as funny. My first thought was that I could delete files perfectly well at the moment...

--

"I'll take the red pill. No! Blue! AAAaaaahhhhhhhhh"
- Monty Python meets the Matrix

Re:Not a good start to the artice. by Frag-a-Gates · 2001-10-25 03:56 · Score: 1

Next, you'll probably be able to dele files from you harddrive WITHOUT messing up your computer. That's definately gonna be the next M$ highlight! ;)

--
[insert random fortune here]

Deleting data by whovian · 2001-10-25 02:14 · Score: 1

From the CNN article:

The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive.

User Poll:
(a) Awesome feature! Now I can reuse the 4 hard drives sitting in the closet!
(b) Par for the course. It's just like Microsoft to remove essential functionality.
(c) Don't stare into the headlights of any on-coming operating system, you may be blinded and crash head-on.
(d) Friends don't let friends drive microsofted.
(e) Cowboyneal

--
To-do List: Receive telemarketing call during a tornado warning. Check.

Thank you, BBC, ... by Limburgher · 2001-10-25 02:15 · Score: 1

for calling a spade a spade. They refer to XP as a "piece of work". "Bill of goods" might also be appropriate. . .

--

You are not the customer.

Gates on Regis yesterday said ... by zummit · 2001-10-25 02:15 · Score: 4, Interesting

Yesterday morning, Bill Gates was on the Regis show and I would like to share a direct quote which he said in reference to the idea that WinXP doesn't crash as much as other windoze OS's.

"The average user will save about a week a year."

[When I shared this with a friend, he replied, "Someone should file a lawsuit alleging that Windows was defective and that the licensing was an ineffective waiver of rights because of M$'s monopoly and their collusion with hardware manufacturers to force their product on consumers. I figure that since 1996, Biull G. & Co. have waster about $8,000 of my time."]

Re:Gates on Regis yesterday said ... by SnapperHead · 2001-10-25 02:19 · Score: 1

So, if they move over to Linux, they would save about 6 months out of the year. :)

--
until (succeed) try { again(); }
Re:Gates on Regis yesterday said ... by nick_burns · 2001-10-25 02:33 · Score: 1

Yeah, but they'll have to work 2 weeks of overtime a year to pay for Windows.
Re:Gates on Regis yesterday said ... by LordKronos · 2001-10-25 03:02 · Score: 1

Yeah, but they'll have to work 2 weeks of overtime a year to pay for Windows

So, lets see by your figures. Windows XP ranges from $100 (home edition, upgrade) to $300 (professional, full version).

$100 to $300/2weeks = $50 to $150/40 hours = $1.25 to $3.75 per hour

If you are working for those rates, I suggest you look around for a new job...your boss has really got you bent over on this one.
Re:Gates on Regis yesterday said ... by Red+Avenger · 2001-10-25 03:27 · Score: 1

Just imagine how much time everyone could save by using Linux!!!

The end is near! by pdqlamb · 2001-10-25 02:15 · Score: 1

Balmer: "It's the Windows to beat Windows." Sounds like the OS/2 mantra, "A better Windows than Windows," and some advertising slogans for Amiga, Gem, DR-DOS, and surely I'm forgetting a few.

So now that MS's slogans are reduced to copying those of their deceased competitors (OK, both of you OS/2 users sit back down!), maybe now Windows will follow the same fate -- oblivion in three years.

XP and the "net" by thor · 2001-10-25 02:16 · Score: 1

.

is it just me or has XP already caused the "net" to shit-the-bed?!?

thor

Marketing by AlgUSF · 2001-10-25 02:17 · Score: 1

You are all missing the point. It is, "Upgrade to this new OS, we even have Madonna singing 'Ray of Light' as the theme song, so it has to be good". The idea of an OS having a theme song is stupid, but I guess it works. I wonder what the theme song for kernel 2.6 is going to be? :-)

--

I want my rights back. I was actually using them when our government stole them after 9/11.

Re:Win98se - Downloadalbe updates - where? by WildBeast · 2001-10-25 02:18 · Score: 1

just go to windowsupdate.microsoft.com
Yes MS will be keeping them for a long time. Win95's windowsupdate is still working fine.

Time to Upgrade! by JWhitlock · 2001-10-25 02:21 · Score: 2

Time to upgrade the hardware, I mean...

Seriously, I have almost always bought a new computer based on a new operating system. I think this is a common experience. I've never upgraded a Windows operating system, except for my first college computer, when Win95 came out a few months after I purchased it - and Gateway gave me a free upgrade coupon for that one.

Why? Well, like most home PC users, I don't upgrade the hardware much. I buy a system that's more than I need at the time, and when I start feeling the pinch, there's no clear upgrade path to the next system. For instance, I could use a GeForce2/3, a video card with DVD-out (and a DVD player that supports that), Firewire, a 3x to 5x processor increase (350 Mhz to somewhere in the high 1000's), and maybe get the memory up to half a gig. But there's no good upgrade path - that's a motherboard change (to one w/ AGP and that supports a faster processor), and it means discarding my current DVD drive, and possible other hard drives. I might as well buy a new, integrated system. And while I'm at it, I might as well get the latest operating system. I wanted to buy a new PC around the time Black and White came out, but I decided to wait and see if XP would be worth the wait.

Which puts me in a bind. Like others say, there's not much differance between XP and 2000, except for some (downloadable) bells and whistles, and that AWFUL authentication scheme. I'll wait until the verdict to see if I should go XP, 2000, or ME. Unlike some ZDNet columnists, I'm pretty happy with Win98SE...

If it wasn't for the funky licsensing, I'd jump right on, and have my PC delivered tommorrow. I'm afraid a million others are making the same choice, and we might see a boom in PC sales by Christmas, maybe not.

Re:Time to Upgrade! by JWhitlock · 2001-10-25 08:01 · Score: 2

Me:I'll wait until the verdict to see if I should go XP, 2000, or ME.
You:That, my friend, is the problem. If you wait, by the time you buy your next PC it will come with XP preinstalled. You'll use it whether you like it or not.
Ahh, but I may be planning to build my next system rather then buy it from a dealer. I'm hoping that, for the next few months at least, you'll be able to purchase the OEM version of Win2K from a hard drive seller. Or, if XP is REALLY annoying, I may even be willing to buy a non-OEM copy of Win2K.

Pre-XP machines for the Fallout Shelter by meta_gorn · 2001-10-25 02:21 · Score: 1

I'm just waiting out this XP / .NET silliness until it blows over. My new, heavily discounted Duron laptop has ME and all the ports of my favorite gnu tools purr like a kitten. Meanwhile, I'm putting my desktop OEM's Win98 system disk in a safety deposit box and leaving it in my will to my first born. This buys me time to figure out how the hell to make Linux work w/ my Westell DSL modem while preparing for the Armageddon. Now you'll excuse me, I have to stock up on some canned goods...

--
--- When I grow up, I want to be a legislator of scientific laws.

For gamers... by G-funk · 2001-10-25 02:23 · Score: 2

...I've read a whole truckload of posts from peopl claiming that gamers should go to win2k. Crap. Heaps of games don't run on win2k, and there's no sound at all in dos games. (I know about vdmsound, but that crashes a lot of games eg worms). WinXP runs more games than win2k in my experience, and it runs every dos game I've thrown at it, although only a dozen or so, but it runs some that 98 would not, and all with sound. It runs max payne bloody well, and the only game i've had problems with is Warlords 3, but it runs warlords 2 great, with full sound, midi and voice.

There are some things that are done wrong, there's too much MS advertising, and good luck to MS re charging for more themes, but apart from these (relatively minor) gripes, I love XP, and I'm hoping that the oracle guys port soon so I can loose 2k for good.

Also, anybody know a place to download themes for the built-in theming engine? Much appreciated if you do, all I can find on google is wallpaper+sounds+icon packages :-(

--
Send lawyers, guns, and money!

Re:For gamers... by DavittJPotter · 2001-10-25 05:04 · Score: 1

WindowBlinds from Stardock has updated their program to take advantage of the WinXP theme engine.

Have fun!

--
"If there's hope, it lies in the proles..."

Virii heaven by c4 · 2001-10-25 02:24 · Score: 1

Well, since every user is the root user, and XP allows raw data socket connections....hmmn...
Nope, I don't see any potential security concerns....lets release the thing!

...and look how well slate.msn.com is working now! by gdav · 2001-10-25 02:24 · Score: 1

To coincide with the launch, Slate has had a makeover and now runs on .Net. Unfortunately most of the content is now along these lines:

Server Error in '/' Application.
Server Too Busy
Description: An unhandled exception occurred during the execution of the current web request. Please review the stack trace for more information about the error and where it originated in the code.

Exception Details: System.Web.HttpException: Server Too Busy
Source Error:
An unhandled exception was generated during the execution of the current web request. Information regarding the origin and location of the exception can be identifed using the exception stack trace below.
Stack Trace:
[HttpException (0x80004005): Server Too Busy]
System.Web.HttpRuntime.RejectRequestInternal(HttpW orkerRequest wr) +138
Version Information:Microsoft .NET Framework Version:1.0.3215.11; ASP.NET Version:1.0.3215.11

Quick! buy another 1,000 CPU's for the server farm!

george

WOW A new OS from MS.. by Flick · 2001-10-25 02:26 · Score: 1

Why do you give press to a company who's sole interest is to own everything. Stop one second and think about what you give to MS. Ignore them. We have a bigger goal and MS WILL fall. If BG were gone tomorrow MS would be gone. Let's be the heros of the next revolution and ignore those that think they can rule our tomorrows.

XP and Linux on the same machine? by cschmidt · 2001-10-25 02:27 · Score: 1

Has anyone installed XP and Linux on the same machine?

Last time I tried to reinstall Windows 98 SE the install wouldn't run because Windows wasn't on my primary drive (Linux was). It was easy enough to switch drives and rerun the install, but it made me wonder if XP will be even more finicky than 98 SE.

--

Who am I to blow against the wind? -- Paul Simon

Re:XP and Linux on the same machine? by gid · 2001-10-25 10:30 · Score: 1

Just have use a bootdisk, and forget installing lilo... You might be able to get lilo and xp to play nicely, but why risk pulling your hair out? Booting off a floppy is a fairly fast. Plus buildings kernels is still easy... "make bzdisk"
Re:XP and Linux on the same machine? by Bert64 · 2001-10-25 11:05 · Score: 1

Yes, infact i have Linux, XP and FreeBSD (4.3) on the same machine. I have lilo installed on the second ide disk, aswell as linux root and a D: (data?) partition for files shared between the o/s`s I use the FreeBSD bootloader, it correctly identifies the FreeBSD partition, the windows partition (NTFS) and allows me to boot from the 2nd drive (lilo) However, after installing XP it was necessary to reinstall the BSD bootloader, microsoft o/s`s have a habit of overwriting MBR`s and such without prompting or informing..

--
http://spamdecoy.net - free throwaway anonymous email - avoid spam!
Re:XP and Linux on the same machine? by Billly+Gates · 2001-10-25 19:58 · Score: 2

I couldn't get redhat 7.2 to co-exist with XP (yet). However the really good news is that the Xp install utility is all NT4 based. Its just been modified. This means you can select all the partitions you want to install at installation time and ignore those that are already used. I hated the Windows 98 Se installation because of the hard drive issue. THe only problem you may have is that WIndows Xp must use the MBR ( master boot record). Unfortunatly, so does lilo. Even worse lilo must be installed in the first 1024 cylinders of your hard drive. I believe the partition containing the mbr must be fat formated. I had it NTFS formated before which explains why linux wouldn't boot up :-)

--
http://saveie6.com/

bochs/vmware by flok · 2001-10-25 02:28 · Score: 1

Anyone tried Windows XP under Bochs or VMWare yet?

--

www.vanheusden.com - home of Multitail, HTTPing, CoffeeSaint, EntropyBroker, rsstail, bsod, listener, nagcon, nagi

Hysterical quotes from CNN by AshPattern · 2001-10-25 02:28 · Score: 1

The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive.

Allow users to delete data from their hard drive??? What a utterly novel concept.

Windows XP can help reverse the 11.3 percent slump in world computer sales since September 11.

Because the new operating system was so big that people needed to go out and buy a new computer. Hardware is advancing faster than the ability of software to slow it down to unusable levels (which is what gets most people to buy hardware)

Gates told the Associated Press: "It's a value for consumers. Why are there headlights in cars? Why don't they make you go and buy those things separately?

Because, moron, as has been repeatedly pointed out among the clueful, computers aren't cars

features Madonna's "Ray of Light" as its theme tune

Shoulda tried "Material Girl". I can't believe they got Picard to do a promo, though.

Re:Hysterical quotes from CNN by SuiteSisterMary · 2001-10-25 02:35 · Score: 2

Allow users to delete data from their hard drive??? What a utterly novel concept.
It is when you consider that your average OS doesn't erase data, it merely unlinks it and forgets that it's there. The data still exists until overwritten.
Because, moron, as has been repeatedly pointed out among the clueful, computers aren't cars
So? Isn't it unfair to the aftermarket headlight makers? People won't buy aftermarket lights if the ones included are 'good enough' and that means the major car companies can shut out said aftermarket light makers using their unfair control over the vehicles.

--
Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.

Which version of gcc? by verbatim · 2001-10-25 02:28 · Score: 1

So, what version of gcc do I need to compile this thing? And is it compatable with X?

I guess everything will be explained in the README or INSTALL... hrmm...

--
Price, Quality, Time. Pick none. What, you thought you had a choice?

Love that CNN article by Giggles+Of+Doom · 2001-10-25 02:29 · Score: 1

The first paragraph is priceless: "The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive." Wow! Now I can finally remove those old programs! Why didn't they come up with the delete function years ago?

--
"A coward dies a thousand deaths, the brave but one."

I've been using it.. by sapphire42 · 2001-10-25 02:29 · Score: 1

for about a week. I got WIndows XP Pro, corporate
edition, and so far, it's good for some things, bad for others. We wanted to use it a little bit so that we knew what we were dealing with. It's good with programs like Photoshop becuase memory management seems better, but there is still a problem with lots of programs, lesser name
software vendors and freeware/shareware.
And OE still sucks.

Wow, I need this upgrade! by dennism · 2001-10-25 02:30 · Score: 1

With features like this, who needs Linux?

The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive.

--
dennis

That deafening silence that you hear... by haggar · 2001-10-25 02:31 · Score: 1

..is the deep disinterest of CIOs around the world, about WindowsXP.

Really, no company has a business interest to upgrade to XP from NT or Windows2000. That would be 100% even WITHOUT the compulsory hardware upgrade that WinXP entails, and WITHOUT the looming recession. Seeing as though we have both, CIOs would be bad crazy to consider upgrading to XP at this moment. It will be much more of an uphill battle than before.

On the other hand, we know that MS marketoids can always pull one more out. Maybe they'll launch the "If you don't upgrade to XP you are a loser." campaign? It wouldn't work with me, but you know the pointy-haired boss..

--
Sigged!

Re:Why? I like OS/2 by batboy78 · 2001-10-25 02:31 · Score: 1

What have you seen what the size of a base install of XP is. Its the biggest yet... bloatware indeed...

fascistic? by 3am · 2001-10-25 02:31 · Score: 1

sorry to interrupt this fascinating thread, but i have to say that this quite possibly the worst abuse of the word 'fascistic' i've ever seen.

--

A: None. The Universe spins the bulb, and the Zen master merely stays out of the way.

Re:fascistic? by barneyfoo · 2001-10-25 02:33 · Score: 1

facistic is different from fascist. both are adjectives, but the former can be thought of as reminiscent of fascism and so is given alot of leeway. Maybe you hsould think a little more deeply before you give another outrageous comment like that.
Re:fascistic? by barneyfoo · 2001-10-25 02:39 · Score: 1

I know I'm dumb. But at least Im man enough to admit it. Have you ever admitted to yourself that you are a complete and utter idiot? If you havent, then you haven't lived.

Sorry. it's tough. most people are too arrogant and egotistical to fess up to themselves. But it is definately 100% true for everyone.
Re:fascistic? by meatspray · 2001-10-25 03:23 · Score: 1

well he's a troll, and trolls will be trolls.

it would have went really well to the tune for particle man tho.
Re:fascistic? by ahde · 2001-10-25 09:19 · Score: 1

wouldn't it be fascististic?
fasc-istic doesn't make sense
neither does fascist-ic
Re:fascistic? by DavidRavenMoon · 2001-10-25 12:42 · Score: 1

wouldn't it be fascististic? fasc-istic doesn't make sense neither does fascist-ic
No, it would be "Fascist"

--
-- if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic - Lewis Carrol

"No One's Breaking Us Up!" XP = Victory over DOJ? by tenzig_112 · 2001-10-25 02:31 · Score: 2

With all its faults, XP and .NET will soon dominate the IT landscape. And although the DOJ suit is not completely resolved, the possibility of a breakup is greatly diminished with an ally like Bush in the White House.

"No One's Gonna Break Us Up! On one!"
http://www.ridiculopathy.com/news_detail.php?displ ay=20010907

The press by Fjord · 2001-10-25 02:32 · Score: 2

I was surprised that NPR was giving XP a positive review of XP. They had a person on there from some large compute chain (like CompUSA, but I don't remember which), sayig that is is definitely easier to use, and it looks better. He then went on to say some odd things like "it will be able to copy pictures off your digital camera without you having to install any software" and a bunch of other things. When asked about the fact that you have to buy one copy for your laptop and one for your desktop, the guy said "this has always been the case" and just now they have the product activation. This morning, they were talking it up again, although they had one analyst say that which it is a great operating system, it isn't going to cause a resurgence in computer hardware sales, and the amount of money Microsoft has slated for advertising is indicative of the fact that while it is better, it's only marginally better. The only bad thing I have read so far is that you may not be able to play the Snow White DVD, but there will be a patch soon.

One thing I noticed that was lacking was any statement like "your license will expire in 2 years". Is this still on for the retail/OEM version? I remember that they pushed it back for businesses because of the budgetary planning issues, but how about the retail. Anyone have any links?

Incidentally, yes, it is possible that NPR is giving such a review because it is in fact better. I just don't like the form they are giving it in. They are having a guy, who obviously stands to gain if people go any buy XP at his chain, make extremely broad statements that in some cases don't make sense (how can it know all future digital cameras. Does it really even know all current ones? Even ones that have been off the market for 3 years, like my QV-11). I listen to NPR to get away from commerical radio.

--
-no broken link

Re:The press by Laplace · 2001-10-25 02:52 · Score: 2

The man interviewed on the NPR program, All Things Considered, is the chief editor for PC magazine. The PC Mag people know which side their bread is buttered on. They are a consumer oriented magazine, which focuses on the consumer operating system that most of consumer US computes with. Why would this guy stick his neck out on the line?
In addition, why would NPR offer unfavorable reviews of Windows XP? Every morning I hear how programs for NPR are funded by the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation. If you're a radio network which at one time was supported by the government, but is now heavily dependent on cooporate funding, why would you want to piss off the billionare who makes your living possible?
Congress took the public out of public radio a long time ago.

--
The middle mind speaks!
Re:The press by Fjord · 2001-10-25 04:06 · Score: 2

But why cover it so much? It's giving the channel a creepy feeling. "I don't have add banners, but our articles are written by our sponsors" kind of feeling.

--
-no broken link
Re:The press by tsg · 2001-10-25 05:23 · Score: 1

When asked about the fact that you have to buy one copy for your laptop and one for your desktop, the guy said "this has always been the case" and just now they have the product activation.

Here's my problem with this: Everybody knows you only bought one copy of Windows and put it on every computer you owned, even though you weren't supposed to. Microsoft even knew this and priced the software to account for it. They didn't enforce the single-copy license very strenuously, essentially giving their permission (passively at least) to pirate the software. Now the product activation is making this extremely difficult, essentially ending the "piracy", but where's the price break? This is not a lot different then offering a site license for $200, then changing it to a single-copy license for the same price.

--
People's desire to believe they are right is much stronger than their desire to be right.
Re:The press by Darth+RadaR · 2001-10-25 07:35 · Score: 2

I was surprised that NPR was giving XP a positive review of XP.

NPR Announcer:This edition of NPR was underwritten by Microsoft. Where do you want to go today?

:P

--
/*drunk.. fix later*/

Revolution!! by OpperNerd · 2001-10-25 02:32 · Score: 1

http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/ptech/10/25/xp.london .launch/index.html

LONDON, England (CNN) -- Microsoft has launched its new Windows XP operation system. The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive.

Wow, this is what we've all been waiting for! When will we get this feature in FreeBSD?

--
-- unix is for people without a social life - Patrick van Eijk

Hacking the copy protection? AND RedHat 7.2 by tedgyz · 2001-10-25 02:32 · Score: 1

I am a heavy user of Win2K - it plays the most games. I am also doing video editing, CD burning. Linux has software for those tasks, but Winblows has the best selection of quality tools (e.g. Ulead Media Studio Pro).

QUESTION: Where's the info on hacking the copy protection? :-)

Until such time, you won't see me buying XP. I have 3 computers to install it on - Microsnot is high if they think I'm going to fork over 3x for an already overpriced product. I want to get the family computer off of Win98, but not badly enough to line the pockets of Redmond. BTW, the corporate edition (5+ licenses) does not have the hardware detection/copy protection scheme.

BTW, I just ordered RedHat 7.2 for my Linux server.

Call me a fence-sitter.

--
"No matter where you go, there you are." -- Buckaroo Banzai

Protest March by Alien54 · 2001-10-25 02:33 · Score: 2

If the launch was/is held outdoors, it would be funny if there was a protest march against Bill gates.

I mean. it isn't like he hasn't made enemies, or gotten people rather upset from time to time. Yers I know he is the most loved person on the planet.

You know it would make the news.

In fact, The protest marches would probably be the next big thing. I can see it now, the million geek march.

--
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"

Re:Protest March by Noofus · 2001-10-25 03:09 · Score: 1

But if someone tried to toss another pie at him, it would be tested for antrax and any other scarey disease they can think of. I think all of the demonstrators would get arrested for being terrorists anyway - considering how much the government these days seems to like M$.
Re:Protest March by checkyoulater · 2001-10-25 07:11 · Score: 1

As much as people tend to hate Microsoft, I wonder if the same feelings should really be towards Bill too.
I don't think he is alone in making all the decisions for the company. What about Mr. Ballmer?

I remember reading somewhere that Bill Gates and his wife donate 1 billion dollars every year to libraries and schools in Canada and the United States. That is hardly chicken feed, even for the worlds richest man. The money actually goes to his charity, but still...

--
Is that a real poncho? I mean, is that a Mexican poncho or is that a Sears poncho?
Re:Protest March by great+om · 2001-10-25 13:49 · Score: 1

I'm not saying that this automatically makes it bas, but most of the money donated by the Gates's is in the form of MS software (not that they haven't done some good --I think they gave money to AIDS research)

--
------- Oh damn.... the Sigfile escaped... -Great OM
Re:Protest March by maxpublic · 2001-10-25 19:50 · Score: 1

Most of the money is in the form of software. Ol' Bill has funded a number of new buildings, and you know what they all have in common?

"The William H. Gates (building)."

Nothing like trying to buy immortality.

Max

--
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?

WTF is up with msn.com by mgpeter · 2001-10-25 02:33 · Score: 1

Ok, with the release of Windows XP, msn has decided to change their website today. Apparently you must have a Microsoft Product to view their page now, otherwise you get a nice text error page saying that you need to download Microsofts Internet Explorer.

And who said MS was anticompetitive ?
Will Hotmail be next ??

Re:WTF is up with msn.com by saldaec · 2001-10-25 04:22 · Score: 1

I had the same problem today with msn.ca using mozilla. It worked fine yesterday. After logging out of hotmail, and reading an email from the hotmail staff telling of the wonders and joys of upgrading to Windows XP (which I promptly deleted) I was forwarded to msn.ca and received this error message.
Attention: Web Browser Upgrade Required to View MSN.ca

If you are seeing this page, we have detected that the browser that you are using will not render MSN.com correctly. Additionally, you'll see the most advanced functionality of MSN.com only with Microsoft Internet Explorer 5. If you wish to visit MSN.com, please select the appropriate free Internet Explorer download link below.

* Internet Explorer for Windows
* Internet Explorer for Macintosh
* MSN Explorer for Windows
©2001 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved. Terms of Use Advertise TRUSTe Approved Privacy Statement GetNetWise

This has to be one the most aggressive tactics I have seen used by Microsoft. I don't want to use an MS browser, and by sniffing my browser they are not allowing me to see certain sites. Not that I ever use msc.ca/.com but it still angers me that they are being allowed to do this. Come on US DoJ, get your act together and stop these criminals.

Hillarious! by SeaCrazy · 2001-10-25 02:35 · Score: 1

I heard on the radio that at midnight you will be able to get it at CompUSA here. Didn't they do that whole midnight thing with 95 and 98 as well.

--
.sig? Get your own damn .sig!

Nice to see CNN does their research by WebMasterJoe · 2001-10-25 02:35 · Score: 1

...dad's accounts do not have to be closed before the screen is set to the real business of Grand Turismo

First, dad should learn how to save his "accounts" before he lets his kids log in to play games. Second, it's Gran, not Grand. Third, if dad wants his kid to have the best XPerience, he should really close all open applications before starting such a system-intensive application. Sure the OS (theoretically) can handle this kind of load, but is it good computing practice to do that? The multiple logins thing for me would be more like the virtual desktops in KDE or Gnome - just because you can't see the app running doesn't mean it isn't eating up resources. And in Windows, it's probably not well-protected memory space.

--
I really hate signatures, but go to my website.

Re:Nice to see CNN does their research by Graspee_Leemoor · 2001-10-25 10:11 · Score: 1

And 4th- Gran Turismo is for the playstation, not the PC.

I bet they just heard of the recent GT3 and filed it under "computer games". They couldn't really be thinking of running an emulator to play GT on. You'd think they could have spent 60s looking up the name of some hot new PC title so they didn't end up looking like idiots...

graspee

I'm happy. by Pope+Slackman · 2001-10-25 02:37 · Score: 2

Because now when I get a "tech support" call from a friend, I'll be troubleshooting a (in essence)W2k machine, not a WinDOS machine.

C-X C-S
Unfortunately, helping chicks with their computer problems does not appear to help you get into their pants. :(

Re:I'm happy. by Zarniwoop · 2001-10-26 04:19 · Score: 2

Because now when I get a "tech support" call from a friend, I'll be troubleshooting a (in essence)W2k machine, not a WinDOS machine.
Come on now.
Are you actually going to advise Special K to upgrade to WinXP? On his POS? The thing can hardly take the strain of 98!

--
Still not dead.

I've Seen the New Face of Windows by v4sudeva · 2001-10-25 02:37 · Score: 1

(In the interest of all-out disclosure, this comment is an edited form of one I posted here yesterday.)

I've seen the new face of Windows, and it's AOL by Microsoft. Avoid it like the plague it's rapidly becoming part of.

In the interest of marketability, I've tried to make a history of being able to support all reasonably modern versions of Windows. Windows 3.1, I know. Windows 9x, I'm very very good at. Nt 3.5x, yeah. NT 4, I'm the kung-fu master. 2000, I dig and am one good long study of AD away from being better than anyone else in my company, including the guys in charge of the AD.

Windows ME? XP? No thanks. My Microsoft OS support track stops here. I don't want to support it. I don't want to learn it. Anyone running it, I don't want to be involved with. It's ugly, it's stupid, and I can't really believe it's meant to be directional for anyone but people who would use AOL otherwise. It certainly has no place in a serious computing environment, in my opinion.

The rate at which Microsoft continues to pump out new operating systems shows they really are doing it all for the nookie. Compare and contrast Windows 95 and Windows 98. What was in 98 that shouldn't have been a free upgrade to 95, based on what the majority of computer-savvy people seem to consider reasonable software practice?

They're doing the same thing with their MCSE exams; dump out five times as many as are necessary, knowing somewhere, some buzzword-boggled boss will pay for a class or two just to be on the safe side, or to be compliant with whatever new decision has come down the pike from the VIPs on high.

Don't get me wrong: I'm sure XP has some cool features. It almost has to, by definition -- not even Microsoft is bold enough to dump out a "new" OS without adding something innovative or worthwhile. The install technology, in particular, is pretty cool -- but, just like the majority of the other "improvements" in XP, it doesn't really solve any problems for which there are not already excellent solutions.

--
Personal me, collaborative you

Re:I've Seen the New Face of Windows by v4sudeva · 2001-10-25 11:20 · Score: 1

NT4. Go back and re-read. Then post as something other than an AC -- perhaps "gay crab" would be a creative nickname?

I won't bother going into how XP is a gross subset of 2k, as it would apparently be lost on you. Suffice to say, it is. And, guess what? I think it's crude and unattractive. Prove me wrong. This time, I expect slightly better comprehension, both of this post and of the subject at hand.

--
Personal me, collaborative you

Windows XCon: New Virus Platform Released by tenzig_112 · 2001-10-25 02:37 · Score: 2

Ah, Windows. Be it a backdoor in Outlook or a macro in Office, virus writers cannot get enough of Windows.

Idea: Purchase a brand new computer to support a buggy OS so that you can run all those fancy new viruses.

[true story]
I know of a guy who updated his ActiveX in order to view an attachment that later turned out to be a particularly nasty virus.
[/true story]

Dangerous New Virus Called "WindowsXP" Poised To Cripple Users
http://www.ridiculopathy.com/news_detail.php?displ ay=20010827

what does it allow? oh yea.... by atomic+brainslide · 2001-10-25 02:38 · Score: 1

Did anyone else notice this in the linked CNN article?

Microsoft has launched its new Windows XP operation system. The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive. (emphasis added).

i nearly split my sides when i read that.. :)

--
check out my comic: Essential Tremors

NYSE or NASDAQ remain unimpressed by this by ackthpt · 2001-10-25 02:38 · Score: 1

How about that stock market? Dow Jones off 158, NASDAQ off 44 and MSFT off 1.6 at this posting. Doesn't look like a warm embrace, does it?

--

A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar

New XP features! by Alsee · 2001-10-25 02:38 · Score: 1

The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive.

Computer watchers say the new system is much more reliable (less prone to crashes), easier to use, with a better "Start menu," a snazzier look and brighter icons.

I can delete data and I get brighter icons! HOT DAMN!

I couldn't put it any better than Bill Gates himself -
"And all you have to do is understand that to understand why consumers like it and why a competitor would say, 'Hey, it's too good a deal, you know, why are they offering people such a good deal?'"
It's too a good deal, understand to understand it's such a good deal?

--
- - You can't take something off the Internet! That's like trying to take pee out of a swimming pool.

Some FYI by Planesdragon · 2001-10-25 02:39 · Score: 2

To manually hibernane, hold down shift at the shutdown screen and "Suspend" switches to "Hibernate."

Also, look for the (beta) Powertoys. Some of these little things are VERY nifty (Virtual Desktop for Windows, new TweakUI, etc.)

Re:Some FYI by (startx) · 2001-10-25 03:20 · Score: 1

tweakui is now called tweakxp

*this text added to avoid lameness filter*
Re:Some FYI by Planesdragon · 2001-10-25 03:30 · Score: 1

Odd... I didn't notice that at home...

ah, well. Not like it really matters--it's the same old thing with a different look and some new setting to tweak
Re:Some FYI by (startx) · 2001-10-25 07:13 · Score: 1

thanks, I didn't realize that

*this text added to avoid lame speed filter

How hard could it be... by i_am_nitrogen · 2001-10-25 02:39 · Score: 1

...to write a program that would automatically store daily diffs of /etc and archive them to a safe partition, then present a graphical menu to select a configuration to go back to? Hasn't this already been done? I mean, I could write one heck of a "go back" utility for Linux (or other UNIXes) just using existing tools like diff and patch, and even present a graphical display of the changes so that certan sections of the patch could be reapplied or something. It wouldn't be hard at all.

--
A solution to the problem with music today

X-MAME != MAME for Windows XP! by Per+Wigren · 2001-10-25 02:39 · Score: 1

I'm serious! There have been posts to the X-MAME mailinglist recently from users who think that X-MAME means MAME for Windows XP...
No wonder they can't get it to run! LOL

--
My other account has a 3-digit UID.

Re:XP crashes because... by ergo98 · 2001-10-25 02:40 · Score: 1

Oh shit you're right! Actually some guy named Bill came up to me and offered me $15 to go on Slashdot and claim that I've never had 2000 BSOD, so here I am.

The reality is that perhaps, just maybe, you're an idiot. Let me repeat this: Since installing the first RC edition many, many moons back, I have not had one single BSOD. Ever. I have not had a single system failure indeed. What do I do on my PCs? Well I do software development for a living, I play games, I do P2P, I browse, I install and deinstall all nature of shitty software. Not one BSOD. The idea that you are seriously proposing that you uninstalled 2000 to put on ME just absolutely blows me away: What sort of mental deficient are you?

As far as compatability, about the only issue with 2000 is with some old games, otherwise I'd say you're just bullshitting. Regarding security: If you're really willing to run ME instead, then obviously about 90% of the services are unnecessary for you, meaning you can turn them off if you had any clue how to, but I would guess that you don't.

Access to MSN by mystik · 2001-10-25 02:41 · Score: 1

On a completely different note, MS now locks Mozilla out of msn.com.

They claim you need a browser upgrade...

--
Why aren't you encrypting your e-mail?

Re:Offtopic -1 by barneyfoo · 2001-10-25 02:42 · Score: 1

You are kidding yourself if you dont think slashdot is a "social environment". Time to get clued in. *thwap*.

Re:I have... by i_am_nitrogen · 2001-10-25 02:42 · Score: 1

Yeah, Linux proves that a powerful system can be stupidly simple. Compare regedit with vim /etc/* (or similar). It's a lot harder to do custom configurations with Windows. Most of the settings don't even have any defaults set so you don't know if that setting even exists, whereas on UNIX there are man pages and HOWTOs that explain all the details. Not to mention configuration utilities like Linuxconf, YaST, DrakConf, etc.

--
A solution to the problem with music today

Forcing upgrades by TekkenLaw · 2001-10-25 02:43 · Score: 1

Most current Windows users (apart from early adopters) will instinctively resist the upgrade from Win9x/NT/Win2k as nothing new is being offered...but slowly & surely, MS will make it difficult or at least inconvinient to keep on using the older flavours.

It is fully aware of the changed market situation as compared to the Win95 launch & knows it has to coerce people, especially corporates, into upgrading. MS will try to offer value through new application releases & more importantly, services using the .net framework, which will make everyone to switch eventually.

definition by 3am · 2001-10-25 02:43 · Score: 1

http://www.dictionary.com/cgi-bin/dict.pl?term=fas cistic

fascist (fshst)

n.

often Fascist An advocate or adherent of fascism.
A reactionary or dictatorial person.

adj.

often Fascist Of, advocating, or practicing fascism.
Fascist Of or relating to the regime of the Fascisti.

[Italian fascista, from fascio, group. See fascism.]fascistic (f-shstk) adj.

--

A: None. The Universe spins the bulb, and the Zen master merely stays out of the way.

Re:It stands for: by ThePilgrim · 2001-10-25 02:45 · Score: 1

He He This AC did a LOT better than me.

Pitty I've turned of AC posting so I can't see it :-)

--
Wouldn't it be nice if schools got all the money they wanted and the army had to hold jumble sales for guns

Quite a bit, actually. by Planesdragon · 2001-10-25 02:50 · Score: 2

A short list:

1: Fast User switching (you can switch to another user without logging off. GREAT if you share your PC with *anyone.*)

2: An INCREDIBLE Start Menu. (Everything is configurable... what it looks like, if it's new or old, and even what shows up. You can even have unlimited windowing through your file strucutre.)

3: Faster Boot time. (Especially if you're running Win2k!)

4: Game support (MS isn't saying "This isn't a gaming OS" this time, so things will be much better.)

5: A collapsing System Tray (Of all the little icons that show up by the clock, you can configure which ones always hide, which ones never hide, and which ones "hide when inactive.")

6: The latest and greatest interfunctionallity from MS--which menas that the latest and greatest from someone else will work for you now.

Re:Quite a bit, actually. by Rogerborg · 2001-10-25 03:55 · Score: 2
- 4: Game support (MS isn't saying "This isn't a gaming OS" this time, so things will be much better.)
That was always FUD plus early driver problems. I have exactly zero problems developing or running games on Win2K. With recent driver revisions from Nvidia and others, games even run marginally faster on Win2K than Win98.

The fast boot would be nice, but OTOH, I hibernate my Win2K. The only time that I actually shut it down is to swap out some hardware.
--
If you were blocking sigs, you wouldn't have to read this.
Re:Quite a bit, actually. by Planesdragon · 2001-10-25 04:17 · Score: 1

That was always FUD plus early driver problems.

Actually, it was MS saying their position, and the market & most of the game / driver industry ignoring MS. :)

The fast boot would be nice, but OTOH, I hibernate my Win2K. The only time that I actually shut it down is to swap out some hardware.

I've had Win2k crash on me on several occasions due to some rather annoying conflicts--all of which have vanished after WinXP.

'course, the next PC ("Personal Computer") I get will be a Mac.
Re:Quite a bit, actually. by Billly+Gates · 2001-10-25 19:48 · Score: 2

Appearently nvidia did not get its act together this time around with good XP drivers. Infact I am putting in my old vodoo3 1000 card in right now. Its actually faster under XP then the WHQL certified geforce2 mx200. Thats just really screwed up.

--
http://saveie6.com/

Windows XPired? by kiriuja · 2001-10-25 02:50 · Score: 1

Time to learn Linux!

Re:Windows XPired? by i_am_nitrogen · 2001-10-25 04:43 · Score: 1

Time to learn Linux!

Well obviously ... I'd be using Linux right now if not for the fact that my big hard drive is off for RMA and the only computer I have available to me is my parents' Win98SE box.

--
A solution to the problem with music today

what a load of crap! by Will+Collins · 2001-10-25 02:51 · Score: 1

i reckon this version of windows will separate two user groups: the win2k lot - the clever ones, the ones who will go for speed over beauty the xp lot - those who aren't too bright, dont really know what a computer is, and think that it's so pretty, it must be good. As 'The Times' said today on page 3, it does look like it's been designed by a tellytubby... just my 2c worth

Re:what a load of crap! by Hoi+Polloi · 2001-10-25 05:36 · Score: 1

Maybe the people buying it will be consumers getting it with a new machine because that is all they can get with it and they don't have the desire to work around it. Most consumers aren't as technically savvy as us (aren't we wonderful) and just want to do the usual email/web browse/word proc tasks without sweating the technology behind them.

--
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning
Re:what a load of crap! by Will+Collins · 2001-10-25 20:17 · Score: 1

I have to agree with you there.

People dont really have a choice in what operating system they have, they buy a new computer from a computer store, and it comes with XP.

These people wouldn't really have any idea how to change the OS, if they did, they would've built the computer themselves by buying parts from a warehouse.

That's one of the things i like a lot about buying parts for a computer and building it up yourself, it gives u a great learning experience. Also it gives u a chance to get a taste of all the different operating systems there are around.

The people buying the comp from the store will probably be happy with XP, cos they dont know anything different!

Mac costs: a myth. by jotaeleemeese · 2001-10-25 02:53 · Score: 1

Go and check now the prices. You can get an excellent laptop for a competitive price.

Don't fall to FUD, inform yourself.

--
IANAL but write like a drunk one.

Re:Mac costs: a myth. by Pinball+Wizard · 2001-10-25 03:32 · Score: 1

I've never bought a Dell or Compaq, its always been a machine I put together myself.

I recently put together a 1GHz Althon system complete with 17" monitor, CD burner and 256 MB of RAM for $600. So yeah, I still think I'd pay double for an equivalent Mac.

--
No, Thursday's out. How about never - is never good for you?
Re:Mac costs: a myth. by Decimal+Dave · 2001-10-25 10:45 · Score: 1

It is easy to build a stripped-down PC for much less, but you would be very hard-pressed to match the feature set of Apple's desktops. Things like gigabit ethernet, Firewire, and DVD/CD combo burners aren't exactly cheap.

Also note that building certain systems yourself, like fanless desktops (iMac) or portables, isn't very practical.

--

"Leave the strategizing to those of us with planet-sized brains." -Tycho

Deletia. by saintlupus · 2001-10-25 02:54 · Score: 2

From the CNN article:

The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive.

Allows me to delete data? How generous.

Seriously, though, what the hell is this supposed to mean?

--saint
(Glad I use a Mac.)

Re:Deletia. by hattig · 2001-10-25 03:48 · Score: 1

It means that data will be deleted, not just moved back into the free list of space on the hard drive. i.e., overwritten with 0's, or 1's, or preferably 22 times with pseudo-random 0's and 1's.
Basically, this is a feature for the people who download a lot of the more illegal unsavoury prawn on the internet.
Re:Deletia. by uigrad_2000 · 2001-10-25 04:35 · Score: 1

The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive.
Allows me to delete data? How generous.
Seriously, though, what the hell is this supposed to mean?

I think it's a misprint. I think that one of the biggest features of XP is that you can't delete certain stuff on you're drive. Of course, wording it such a way would be bad PR
The problem has been JoeShmoeProgrammerPro who writes driver installation scripts that remove dll's from the user's machines. XP will make sees a request to remove twain32.dll, and quickly makes a backup copy. Joe's script replaces twain32.dll with you-know-what, and XP doesn't complain. Then, when Joe's script is done, XP copies the original twain32.dll back.
Is it good, or is it bad? Obviously, it's bad because it doesn't tell the user anything about what happened. But, similair stuff in MillE has worked, and, generally, people like it.

--
Free unix account: freeshell.org

Re:i wish some one would write an xp on virus/worm by mccalli · 2001-10-25 02:54 · Score: 1

And this helps worldwide computing how, exactly?

Grow up.

What are you talking about? by Perianwyr+Stormcrow · 2001-10-25 02:55 · Score: 2

I guess you just aren't trying hard enough. It's proven very effective for me.

--

What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey

What a joke by Archfeld · 2001-10-25 02:56 · Score: 2

If the author/songwriter got some of that vast $$'s I might buy it, but NO WAY. The author/songwriter is doing for love of the craft, and the publisher/record company is raking in HUGE amounts of cash and giving the originator CRUMBS...

--
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?

Re:What a joke by Archfeld · 2001-10-25 05:25 · Score: 2

So the record companies ARE giving more than 10% to the artist ? what part of what I said is WRONG ? How many rockstars do you know...

" I know of several band(s)" then you list ONE

How about the 1000's of bands that LIVE HIGH on the hog on advances and loans from the Record companies ONYL to go deeply into debt when they are discarded in 6 months. Talk about what you know MORON, and I hope for your sake that this isn't what you claim to know.

--
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
Re:What a joke by Archfeld · 2001-10-25 08:21 · Score: 2

I'm not sure what point you are speaking of beyond the one on your head....
I replied to your statement that the vast amount of profit derived from the record industry is why quality music was avaible, with a comment that YOU'RE a COMPLETE KNEE-BITER. Quality music comes from the SONG WRITERs and MUSICIANs, who RECEIVE a PITTANCE of that, so by your analogy GOOD music is available because FAT PIGLIKE RECORD EXEC's make HUGE SALARIES ?? Crawl back in your AC hole and wait for another day to show off your ignorance.

--
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
Re:What a joke by Archfeld · 2001-10-26 04:13 · Score: 2

you are a total SAP, you actually believe that the record companies provide ANY sort of service to the industry ?? Stop swallowing Hillary's and Jack V's BULLSHIT and think for your self. You are right stop trying to justify your stupidity, no one else is going to buy it. If it makes you feel better, you can think I am stupid, your opinion hurts me in no way. As to debatin,g you provided NOTHING in the way of constructive debate just a lot of name calling. I can see why you hide behind an AC tag. When you find ANY SORT of entry into the music system THEN SPEAK OUT YOUR ASS, because that seems to be your strong suit. Next time pick a topic you KNOW SOMTHING about because it is obvious you no NOTHING about the music industry.

--
errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?

Re:I have... by mplex · 2001-10-25 02:56 · Score: 1

I can't believe you are aguing that linux /etc is easier to configure than the windows registry. It may be just that you don't have enough experience with the registry. On the other hand, /etc is the largest monstrocity I've ever seen. Can't they at least agree on a standard format for the files. You must reverse engineer a million different ideas on the perfect configuration syntax. In the end it's a lot worse.

Re:Why? RemoteDesktop alone makes it worth while by seafoodbuffet · 2001-10-25 02:57 · Score: 1

Having used WindowsXP in it's various incarnations (beta1, beta2, final) I'd say that there are a few compelling reasons to upgrade to XP. For one, even the WindowsXP Home Edition comes with the RemoteDesktop feature. Remote Desktop is essentially Windows Terminal Services, except that in Windows 2000, the server was only available with W2k server. Having RemoteDesktop by itself is already pretty cool, but one of the really compelling features is that you can use it to request help from a buddy or expert. The request mechanism can either be via the integrated MSN Messenger or you can email a token to a friend who's running XP. Now, if it were just like terminal services, it wouldn't be so great but while you're helping someone, both of you see what's going on (similar to VNC), and not only that, you also get a chat window so that you communicate with the person you're helping without using some other medium (like phone, instant messenger, etc). Having used this feature a few times, I've found that it works flawlessly and it's a really handy way to help people when their computer is messed up. Of course this assumes that they've got their computer up and running with XP and that their networking is functional. However, having this feature would have saved me a ton of driving over to my parents to rid their computer of all the spyware they accidentally install. Because this is built on Windows Terminal Services, it's fast, way faster than VNC, pcAnywhere, Remotely Possible, Remote Admin, or anything else I've seen so far. Other things include integrated support for wireless cards. Better yet, it can detect different wireless networks and automatically switch to using them. We have wireless at work and I have a wireless hub at home, going from work to home is basically as easy as opening the laptop and letting XP attach to the new network. Finally there's random thing like less need to reboot, faster reboots, etc. I really don't care about the new UI since that actually slows things down anyway. But I rather feel like it's worth it for me just so I can work from home and be relatively productive instead of waiting for the screen to refresh.

Well, as an American... by ChaoticCoyote · 2001-10-25 02:57 · Score: 2

...I'm dammed offended by the crass commercialism that surrounds the Sept 11 attacks. From Ford telling us to buy cars as a patriotic duty to people selling "commemorative" items on late night TV, it's just sick.

But then, given the strength of the rampant capitalism in the U.S., I'm not surprised by such greed. I'm just disappointed that certain selfish people are living down to my expectations...

--
All about me

CNN Quote by aspillai · 2001-10-25 02:57 · Score: 1

"The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive."

XP is for the smarter user who will finally be able to delete stuff from their hard drive. WOW! The revolution is here.

If cars were OSes... by Perianwyr+Stormcrow · 2001-10-25 02:59 · Score: 2

then I'd have the equivalent of Mac System 7.0 in front of my house.

--

What we call folk wisdom is often no more than a kind of expedient stupidity.-Edward Abbey

Did anyone else notice the first paragraph of CNN? by OS24Ever · 2001-10-25 03:00 · Score: 1

The paragraph says

'This new release promises to have less crashes and let users delete data from their hard drive'

WTF? (on both counts)

--

As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.

How this affects you by Sloppy · 2001-10-25 03:04 · Score: 2

I know this affects a fair number of users but for the life of me I just don't know why ;)

Um.. remember Code Red? You weren't running NT but you were probably still getting a hundred http requests per second, from machines infected by it.

Now consider this: the company that introduced innovations such as:

Having the computer automatically load and execute code from a CDROM when it is inserted
Having a mail reader automatically execute scripts inside of email

is now shipping a product that is significantly less secure than their previous products, and has ".net technology."

If you use the internet (and especially if you pay for bandwidth), then believe me, this will affect you, whether you use the product or not. If the future, historians are going to say that 2000 was the year that there weren't any significant viruses and most internet bandwidth was used for porn. They'll say something different about 2001.

--
As copyright owner of this comment, I authorize everyone to defeat any technological measure which limits access to it.

Re:Cartoon Cartoon by Rhone · 2001-10-25 03:05 · Score: 1

Have you seen this thing, it looks like its for the kids.

And somehow that look will still be thought of as standard, because it's from MS, and people will make window managers (or at least themes) that emulate it.

MS covert marketing revealed by ebbe11 · 2001-10-25 03:07 · Score: 1

The Register has an interesting piece on a leaked internal Microsoft email describing how MS will go about product placement (including, of course, Win XP) in the news media this week.

--

My opinion? See above.

And the license is? by HiThere · 2001-10-25 03:08 · Score: 2

Anybody know what the license is like? Or is it so bad you aren't allowed to talk about it?

--

I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.

Re:What does XP stand for? Emoticon. by TeknoHog · 2001-10-25 03:13 · Score: 5, Funny

Users' impressions of different operating systems, expressed as emoticons:

Linux: :) Windows: XP

--
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.

Cairo by dpilot · 2001-10-25 03:15 · Score: 2

And here I thought "The Road to Cairo" must have been an old road flick starring Bob Hope, Bing Crosby, and Dorothy Lamour.

Is it the unavailablity of the original that makes the Cairo launch star Bill Gates, Sting, and Madonna?

--
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.

What a breaktrough!!! by Pig+Hogger · 2001-10-25 03:16 · Score: 2

The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive.

What a breaktrough!!!

50% by roystgnr · 2001-10-25 03:17 · Score: 2

However how many people do you hear complaing regarding the quality of Windows 2000 (on which XP is based)?

About 3 out of 6 I've talked to. That's a pretty serious improvement, though, as it could imply that the old Microsoft lie of "it's just bad hardware drivers crashing our flawless operating system" could finally have some truth to it.

Of course, the downside to that is Microsoft can't afford to hype the stability too much; if Joe Public loads the new ultra-stable XP on his Compaq-saved-$2.50-on-cheap-parts motherboard, he's not going to care that it's the nonconformant APM hardware crashing, he's going to blame Microsoft.

Re:50% by Rhone · 2001-10-25 03:40 · Score: 1

if Joe Public loads the new ultra-stable XP on his Compaq-saved-$2.50-on-cheap-parts motherboard, he's not going to care that it's the nonconformant APM hardware crashing, he's going to blame Microsoft.

Working as a computer lab assistant at a community college for a couple years, I found the case to be exactly the opposite. Sure, the computer literate people who populate on-line discussion forums like Slashdot know how unstable Windows has been, but "Joe Public" just sees "the computer".

The computers in the computer lab ran Windows 95, and, as you might guess, were extremely slow and very, very crashy. They were Dell machines with Pentium II 300 CPUs and 64MB of RAM, and with Win95 they ran much slower than my home computer (which at the time had a K6-200 CPU and 48MB of RAM).

But guess what the students said when they complained: "These computers suck!" "These computers are so slow!" "Why don't these computers work?"
Re:50% by be-fan · 2001-10-25 14:37 · Score: 2

The thing is, Linux is also unstable for many people. For example, if I switch virtual terminals while starting a big GNOME program, I can crash the machine around half the time. I think that Linux is just in a rut. KDE people are too busy adding features to be bothered with stability, GNOME people don't have the caffine IV drips the KDE people got, so they have to work really hard just to keep up, and Linus has finally lost it and the kernel is worse for it. And GCC-3 is just plain broken. Maybe kernel 2.6, GCC-4.0, and KDE-3 will finally be the golden era of Linux. (I've been saying something similar since kernel 2.2, KDE 1.1.2, and GCC 2.95.x...)

--
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...

Name correction by Scoria · 2001-10-25 03:18 · Score: 2, Funny

Windows FP - Fisher Price Edition

--
Do you like German cars?

Not an open market by yerricde · 2001-10-25 03:19 · Score: 1

Oh yes MS is so sucessful because they make great products

And you consider the blue screen of death and a 1.5 GB desktop environment (unlike the typical GNU/Linux distribution's workstation install footprint, this figure does not include dev tools or even a basic office suite) where changing the sound or joy driver or changing your IP address requires restarting the graphics server to be a "great product"? Do you call a product that uses "anti-piracy" excuses to gather marketing information on its users a "great product"?

that compete on the open market.

Microsoft's typical bootloader license (half price if a PC vendor installs nothing but Windows on all PCs it sells) keeps Windows from competing in a truly open market.

--
Will I retire or break 10K?

Re:Not an open market by fifthchild · 2001-10-25 03:49 · Score: 1

OPen market = not what you seem to think it is. THe freedom to sell your product without government intevention is the open market. What you mentioned is a buisness practice, shady I admit, not the qualifications for an open market practice. It was, however, fuzzy logic at its greatest. Well done.

--
Sham on
Re:Not an open market by arkanes · 2001-10-25 06:49 · Score: 1

Redefining open to mean uncontrolled is a nice example of fuzzy thinking all in itself. The fact is that an uncontrolled market will rapdily become closed, precisely because of monopolies - you think we have it bad with MS, imagine what it would be like with NO market controls AT ALL. For one thing, no one would own a computer cause we'd all work for minimum wage in coal mines, staying eternally in debt at the company store that only accepts company script. Free(uncontrolled) markets do NOT work in the long run - just like anarchy.

Re:Woot! Gear! by omega9 · 2001-10-25 03:20 · Score: 1

That stuff made me want to throw up! But then I got this weird feeling about my hash-bang hat, my Red Hat T's, and my penguin tatoo. I'm just as...

Ah, fuck it! That stuff makes me throw up.

--
I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it.

Not impressed with CNN coverage by mattnash · 2001-10-25 03:21 · Score: 1

Completely aside from whether or not anyone needs XP more than a hole in his head, the CNN article was utterly miserable.

In the first paragraph, such as it is, they call XP an "operation system" -- a mistake I frequently hear secretaries and PHBs make, but inexcusable for an alleged journalist in the Sci/Tech section of CNN.

The very next sentence is "The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive." Delete data from my hard drive! I've been waiting DECADES for that functionality!

The following 2 or 3 pages read like a Microsoft press release, including such gems as "The printer links are improved, there is instant messaging, voice technology and the multimedia applications are ranked by experts as impressive, especially for digital photography."

After piles of this kind of cheerleading, only briefly do they mention any criticism of XP... but it is whitewashed as "controversy" and doesn't really address the new issues raised by the various sneaky new "features" and integrated copies of competitors' products... even though they quote Gates in the first few graphs saying

"'It's a value for consumers. Why are there headlights in cars? Why don't they make you go and buy those things separately?

'If you look at the value of the stuff that's in Windows XP, compared to the stand-alone packages you'd have to buy for the equivalent, that's many hundreds of dollars,' Gates said. "

...which would seem to be a defense-in-advance against criticism of exactly that integration. Context? Who needs it?

Sheesh.

Nakedness, the Emperor and you by raumdass · 2001-10-25 03:21 · Score: 1

So XP has debuted with all the fanfare and rock star trappings that $200 Million can buy. Sting, everyone's favorite "adult" rock star and Jaguar pitchman, swooning the masses for Microsoft and all the Usual Suspects singing the praises of this, "The Most Important Piece of Software in the World".

Aside from the obvious irony of Sting choosing to be pimped for Jaguar and Microsoft, two companies notorious for making products that require a full-time mechanic, I think it's really interesting to listen to what non-techies are saying about it. Listening to the news on TV and the radio in the car, I hear people asking "Well, what makes it so great?"

The answers, even from the most Microsoft friendly of places (e.g. PC Magazine) is one of ambivalence to near disingenuousness. The best I've heard about it is it's stable, but lacking the full feature set of Windows 2000, "it's prettier", and that it has features that make it arguably easier to use. If you call being able to burn a CD with none of the flexibility of a real CD mastering package, navigate zip files with none of the useful features of WinZip, or try to do anything involving this here internet without being railroaded to a Microsoft property, well, yeah, I guess it's easier to use. We'll skip a description of the hair-brained "activation" process, with the exception of a snippet I heard on NPR yesterday:

Announcer: "So, I hear that if I want to upgrade multiple computers in my house, I'll need to purchase multiple upgrade packages and the upgrade will only work on computers purchased after the holidays in 1999. Is this the case?"

PC Magazine Editor guy: "Well, you do need at least 128 MB of RAM...:

Announcer: "Isn't that the bare minimum?"

PMEG: "Well, it'll run just fine with 128, but with more, it'll run 'better'"

Announcer: "And the activation process? In the past, people have just used the same CD for multiple computers"

PMEG: "Well, that's always been illegal, Microsoft is just doing what they can to make sure people abide to the license agreement."

So what are we left with? An OS that gets crippled for consumers, shoved down their throat with every new PC purchase, and will achieve the ubiquity we've come to expect from Microsoft operating systems. A little bit of stability does not rescue XP from the kind of mediocrity that's synonymous with Windows, all the while being told that it's the greatest thing since ones and zeroes.

Bill Gates is not a pretty man naked.

Color of the blue screen of death by yerricde · 2001-10-25 03:25 · Score: 1

Also, the shade of blue is the new "XP Blue" color that you see on the login box, menus and stuff. It's much, much nicer to look at.

What color is that? The old blue screen was VGA color 15 (i.e. #ffffff white) text on a VGA color 1 (i.e. #0000aa blue) background, in the BIOS font. The 8x12 pixel font in Command Prompt is based on older BIOS fonts. Now you can create your own fake blue screens.

--
Will I retire or break 10K?

WOW! by iMMersE · 2001-10-25 03:26 · Score: 1

LONDON, England (CNN) -- Microsoft has launched its new Windows XP operation system.

Cool! Brain surgery out of the box!

The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive.

I remember the days, sitting at home, on my Windows 98 box, waiting for the day when deleting of data from my hard drive would become possible. Finally, Microsoft has answered my prayers. Thank you Bill Gates, thank you!

--
codegolf.com - smaller *is* better.

It's simple, really... by StupidKatz · 2001-10-25 03:28 · Score: 1

Decent computer game: 10-40+ hours of gameplay, now often on multiple CDs.

Standard CD: ~75 *maximum* minutes of music. Often on one CD, often with only one to three "good" tracks, or about fifteen minues of decent music.

Dear Lord, forgive me; I've fed a troll.

Re:It's simple, really... by niall111 · 2001-10-25 04:51 · Score: 1

Tool - Lateralus 79 minutes, 53 seconds of nothing but pure, unadulterated bliss. enjoyed WAY more than 10-40+ hours, something like 200-300 by now, by my estimate. That's a lot of entertainment for 20$CDN. Coincidentally, it's the second CD i've actually paid money for since '96. the other was the Salival box set, which i've enjoyed equally as much. Record companies can spend all the time they want trying to be evil, but unless I get some damn good music out of it, i'm not paying the money.

A serious question by mindstrm · 2001-10-25 03:28 · Score: 2

And I ask here because microsoft marketing BS is meaningless.

What does XP offer me that Win2k doesn't? What incentives are there for me to switch?

I certainly understand the incentive for many useres out there to switch.. especially if they are stuck with win98/me...

But seriously. Win2k only came out a short while ago.. and it's quite good.

Re:A serious question by reflective+recursion · 2001-10-25 04:00 · Score: 2, Insightful

Better integration with .NET possibly? I read an article yesterday which says something to the effect of Microsoft is their own competition because their old OSes are still selling (and working fine) while they are trying to get new OSes off the shelves.

There is very little incentive, IMO. I don't believe there has been a true incentive to purchase an OS since Win3.1 to Win95. Win98/2k were mostly bug fixes to the product Win95 should have been. Microsoft is making WinXP out to be the generational leap Win3.1 to Win95 was. I don't think it will be the same or their marketting will work the same this time. .NET has no "killer app" right now, and XP brings only flashy graphics to the table really.

The next incentive to purchase a new OS will be applications or hardware. Neither has advanced at all (aside from nVidia vs. ATI). The last "killer app" I know of was Napster, which didn't help the computing industry at all. Will 64-bit hardware provide an incentive in the future? Doubt it. I believe the bottlenecks for advancement are internet bandwidth and software development methods. And the dot-bomb era certainly didn't help by flooding the market with nonsense buzzwords that made even the professionals wonder which end is up on the technology scale (many of whom still believe XML is their magic bullet).

--
Dijkstra Considered Dead

Hibernate is still there, but obscured by steevo.com · 2001-10-25 03:28 · Score: 1

You have to hold down the 'shift' key. The standby button will then turn into the 'hibernate' button.

Thank you Microsoft for making this easier, better and more intuitive!

First sentence from the CNN Article... by johnlenin1 · 2001-10-25 03:28 · Score: 1

The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive. [emphasis added]

hmm, so I can delete data from my hard drive now, huh? Now that's innovation for you.

Oh, wait, they must have meant "let the RIAA/MPAA/ect. delete data from their hard drive." Yeah, that makes more sense.

Will it let you delete MP3s? by yerricde · 2001-10-25 03:29 · Score: 1

'users to delete data from their hard drive' presumably refers to the secure delete facility thats new to XP. Because users want to make really sure that an undelete ... can't be done

Knowing Microsoft, the company is probably in bed with the RIAA and MPAA and may have disabled Windows XP's "secure delete" feature (i.e. hard drive free space wiping, which can be done in less than 100 lines of C code) for media files, so that the RIAA and MPAA can pay Microsoft to cr4ck j00r b0x and look for fair use.

--
Will I retire or break 10K?

Re:Will it let you delete MP3s? by MaxVlast · 2001-10-25 05:06 · Score: 1

How can they look for fair use, short of activating the QuickCam and scanning your room for CD cases?

--
There should be a moratorium on the use of the apostrophe.
Max V.
NeXTMail/MIME Mail welcome

Hotmail Spamming by ubrkl · 2001-10-25 03:31 · Score: 1

Okay, before you mod me OT, did anyone else just get a 'Upgrade to XP' spam in their Hotmail a/c from an internal Hotmail source??

This strikes me as a bit dodgy, for all of the anti-spam filtering that MS has put into hotmail over the past year, they can just walk right in and say 'Deliver this XP advertisment to every damn Hotmail account holder'.

Rant over now.

MSN blocking non-windows browsers by crumley · 2001-10-25 03:33 · Score: 2

In somewhat related news, MSN is blocking non-windows browers. Go to MSN with a *nix browser and you get the error page:

Attention: Web Browser Upgrade Required to View MSN.com
If you are seeing this page, we have detected that the browser that you are using will not render MSN.com correctly. Additionally, you'll see the most advanced functionality of MSN.com only with the latest version of Microsoft Internet Explorer or MSN Explorer. If you wish to visit MSN.com, please select the appropriate download link below.
* Internet Explorer for Windows * Internet Explorer for Macintosh * MSN Explorer for Windows
You can get around this by changing your user-agent. In junkbuster, add a line like:
user-agent Mozilla/4.77 [en] (Win95;U)
It seems like the MSN page renders fine under Netscape/Mozilla, so rejecting non-Windows browsers seems stupid.

--
Preventive War is like committing suicide for fear of death. - Otto Von Bismarck

Re:MSN blocking non-windows browsers by crumley · 2001-10-25 03:36 · Score: 1

Shit, should have hit preview.

--
Preventive War is like committing suicide for fear of death. - Otto Von Bismarck
Re:MSN blocking non-windows browsers by Junta · 2001-10-25 03:38 · Score: 2

Works fine with Netscape 6.1 here, without any tricks here..

--
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
Re:MSN blocking non-windows browsers by crumley · 2001-10-25 03:53 · Score: 1

Yeah, I just figured out that it works with Solaris Netscape 4.7x when I turn off junkbuster, but not when I have it on. Doesn't work with mozilla at all though, even when junkbuster is turned off.

--
Preventive War is like committing suicide for fear of death. - Otto Von Bismarck
Re:MSN blocking non-windows browsers by crumley · 2001-10-25 05:03 · Score: 1

As I said here, it seems to work for netscape 4.7x when I turn off junkbuster. It doesn't work at all for mozilla, though. This is on Solaris 7, though other people on a mailing list that I'm on have gotten similar results on Linux and other OSs.
try it with another broswer if you have available -lynx, opera, konqueror or whatever.

--
Preventive War is like committing suicide for fear of death. - Otto Von Bismarck
Re:MSN blocking non-windows browsers by crumley · 2001-10-25 06:39 · Score: 1

Well, now this thread has its own article.

--
Preventive War is like committing suicide for fear of death. - Otto Von Bismarck

Gnutella by xanadu-xtroot.com · 2001-10-25 03:33 · Score: 1

Damn. I though for sure by now (11:00 am) there would be ISO's up on Gnutella.

Nothing...

--
I'm not a prophet or a stone-age man,
I'm just a mortal with potential of a super man.

How XP targets Linux by groomed · 2001-10-25 03:34 · Score: 1

Microsoft hasn't been sitting on their asses since the Halloween document. They've clearly taken a good look at why Linux might pose a threat to them and come up with some pretty good answers.

The whole "experience" thing is not an idle boast. A virgin Win2K install is stark to say the least. You get, what? An email client an a browser? It's really not that exciting. With Linux, you get lots and lots of apps, even though most of them are not very good (but the same can be said about the standard Windows tools). In a sense, Linux is cozy (the choice of a penguin for a mascot is a stroke of genius on the part of Linus).

So Microsoft is making Windows cozier, too, by giving you some extra apps and a new look. The fact that they have a unified UI & desktop management layer (in contrast to the mess that is X) is helping them here. At the same time, the .NET strategy deepens the split between developers and users, and so creates room at the bottom to make Windows even cozier.

All this, of course, in the name of revenue. What Microsoft will increasingly be selling is coziness, in the form of entertainment on the one hand (add-on packs like subscriptions to desktop wallpapers, don't forget their image libraries), and, on the other hand, in the form of API's and subscription models that enable developers to deliver more coziness to their users (think Bonzi Buddy).

Because users will want coziness whether they're running Windows or Linux, they will always want to come to Microsoft, is how the idea goes. Microsoft understands that obscure file formats and protocols will not save them forever: we are not dealing with the ignoramuses behind the DMCA here, but with the people who for 15 years have written and sold the OS that has dominated the computer industry. Obviously any help they can get from the DMCA and similar legislation is nice, but Microsoft is not one to bet the farm on a single horse.

So, the "services" model, which is really the "coziness" model, and hinges on both their impressive content marshalling ability and their unique position as a monopolist. They've already gotten de Icaza to enter into a battle he can never win, and many more will follow (just like IE spawned Mozilla and set browser development on Linux back by about a year).

So good luck to all ye open source hackers, and remember never to follow someone else's dream.

Ack Ack Ack! Fisher-Price by Mashiki · 2001-10-25 03:34 · Score: 1

Sellout! Ack Ack!

With the new Fisher-Price(TM), interface even idiots can figure out how to use WindowsXP(TM), but watch out for those 3l33t h4X0r'5, you need to upgrade and get the special Microsoft Security Pack(TM)!

And don't forget about Gibson's dire prediction's that XP's use of Raw Sockets will cause the internet to collapse into a pile of melted routers and CAT5 cable!

Don't forget to register! If you don't, we'll kill your copy of XP within 30 days, and even if you do we might decide to do it anyway!

And you can have all this for $299!!! With our new spy soft...uhh .NET support will allow us to tell you when you need to upgrade! Not to mention selling your e-mail address to every spammer on the planet!!

--
Om, nomnomnom...

MSN has been "innovated" as well by boskone · 2001-10-25 03:35 · Score: 1

Yeah, yeah... my fault for using them as my portal, but they've completely changed it from a clean source of information to something that looks like it came out of a windows 9x setup screen. Go look (at your own risk of course). Go look for yourself... MSN Home page. I am definately looking for a new portal. First they shoved me into passport (because cookies weren't good enough to keep track of what I want on my homepage??) and now they've futzed it up again.

sorry about the rant, but this just pushed me farther from MS. Maybe I'll get that Mandrake distro configured this weekend too...

Facism vs. fascism by yerricde · 2001-10-25 03:35 · Score: 1

facistic is different from fascist. both are adjectives

But the real difference between "facist" (FAY-sihst) and "fascist" (FASH-ihst) is that "facist" refers to discrimination based on surface features, especially the appearance of the face, whereas "fascist" refers to a totalitarian government. Fascism often includes facism or other racism.

--
Will I retire or break 10K?

Re:Non-bashing reasons I won't buy XP by Caball · 2001-10-25 03:38 · Score: 1

3. I still wanna play some old classics. That includes games that probably won't survive the strict "32-bit only"-thang of NT/w2k/XP.

You can run XP in any mode you want...

From a Linux user for over 2 years. by StarbuckZero · 2001-10-25 03:39 · Score: 1

If there is one thing I hate the most is when people bash Microsoft just because they don't like that. Hell I don't like them all too much but I'm not going to put down something I don't know about like some *nix users do on this site. I know about Microsoft's past and I see what they are planning to do with the future. Put developers will not let Microsoft control the future of the Internet like they plan on doing with .Net and Hailstorm. Microsoft is not stopping me from using Linux and supporting Linux base companies. I don't sit there and call him oddball names like M$ and Micro$oft and shit like that. I think that's pointless and it soon how much of a dumbass you are when you do something like that in the first place. I figure if people what to use Linux they will speak up or install it themselves. We need to think about our OS... f*ck there's! All I do is let people know that there is another operating system out there besides Windows or show them Linux and tell them what it's about. I don't flame MS and tell people about how much they computer crash a day.

Sometimes I like to see what people think of it. It's the first day out, so I'll like to hear people soon or later. Also I would like to play with it more, my friend had the beta install at this house and I play with that last weekend. I think it's very nice, I haven't seen it crash, and it has some cool extras and its very X11 feeling. As a Linux user I feel that I have to know something about the other operating system too just to stay up to date with Microsoft latest and greats. I not going to go off and put down something that I don't anything or next to nothing about. With me I like to mainly try out something like that for myself. I'm not going to be close-minded and just bash them because it's MS.

The sad thing is that I been using Linux for 2 years and if I do install another version of Windows I won't have no software for it. I only have Linux games, and CD burning software and development/server tools were came with the distro I downloaded. I could are less for paying $199-$299 for a copy of XP. I don't want to start paying for upgrades and patches when I didn't have to. I have everything I need in Linux now, but I have to say for something that is getting a new computer or upgrading from Windows 9x it could be a good thing. Yeah I don't like that fact that it phones home to Microsoft but I think it's a great OS and more power to them.

--
From Zero to Hero... Starbuck Zero

Re:Cartoon Cartoon by Concerned+Onlooker · 2001-10-25 03:41 · Score: 1

Well, at least the GUI won't look like it was built with an erector set, like all their previous ones.

When they copied Apple they should have done a better job.

--
http://www.rootstrikers.org/

Mac OS X Envy by Slur · 2001-10-25 03:41 · Score: 2, Interesting

I can think of at least one reason more people will upgrade to Windows XP: MacOS X. Many users of PCs - for the most part your average gamers who are using Windows 98 or ME and who are aware that "modern" operating systems are becoming an essential commodity - will buy this thing. Its aesthetic beauty - or at least M$ idea of aesthetic beauty - adds another element.

I can imagine one of these users looking at the colorful screenshots and saying, "Ah, finally something that makes full use of my powerful graphics card!" I have to admit that knowing I've got the capability of amazing 3D graphics lurking in my system makes me wish it were being used more ubiquitously. And now because of the hype surrounding "modern" crash-proof multitasking OSes a lot of users are slavering over exactly this kind of thing.

Hardcore gamers and power users long ago upgraded to Win2K. Although Windows 2000 is a modern crash-proof OS, to many users it *looks no different* from Windows 95 or 98. Microsoft is leveraging a lot of what Apple has done with MacOS X to give a brand-identity to the modern OS. In the minds of consumers an OS that has the audacity to get funky gives the impression that such computing cockiness is warranted by the underlying stability and speed of the OS. It also carries the impression of being forward-thinking, because - sure - with today's processors a lot of this stuff may be taxing, jumpy, or slow, but wait a few months or a couple years and just watch how normal it will all be.

The only thing that troubles me about the XP aesthetic is how closely it mirrors the graphical style of modern media. It won't be long before you'll have to look twice before you realize you're not looking at a sports-statistics display like you see on ESPN or NBC. And that flying logo: it's not the nightly news logo my friend, but "You've got mail!"

As a finaly note, It's obvious to me - and no doubt to many /. readers - that MacOS X is a much better deal and more viable in the long run for one simple reason: It's a Unix. No matter how many nice gadgets M$ decides to plop on top of their modern kernel (the dubious .NET included) when PC users decide to go further they'll find themselves sorely lacking. The savvier ones will install Linux and dual-boot it (hopefully there'll be a way to run Linux concurrently as an OS service). The all-in-one solution of MacOS X just seems more compelling to me, and frankly it's a hell of a lot prettier and more elegant.

--
-- thinkyhead software and media

Re:Mac OS X Envy by alfredo · 2001-10-25 03:56 · Score: 1

I have to agree. Luna was inspired by Aqua, but fell short. I see it as the same old 2000 interface with a bright coat of paint. Sure there are nice new geegaws, but I don't see a compelling reason to move up to it.

I do like OSX's use of UNIX. this gives the users unlimited options. They can even run Windows on it.

Steve knew that if he built it (a UNIX based OS) the UNIX developers would come.

MS is now the outsider, by not being in the UNIX playground. While they charge developers for the priv. of developing for .Net, Apple and the UNIX developer world are moving closer together.

--
photosMy Photostream
Re:Mac OS X Envy by Gogo+Dodo · 2001-10-25 07:53 · Score: 2

I was at a local computer store and overheard this tidbit a couple of days ago while two guys looked over an iBook with MacOS X loaded: "Check this out, they already have Windows XP installed."
Nothing like the Microsoft domination when a released non-Microsoft OS on an obvious non-Intel machine is mistaken for an unreleased (at that time) Microsoft OS.
Unfortunately, they walked away before I could straighten them out.
Re:Mac OS X Envy by HoaryCripple · 2001-10-25 08:09 · Score: 1

I was at a local computer store and overheard this tidbit a couple of days ago while two guys looked over an iBook with MacOS X loaded: "Check this out, they already have Windows XP installed."

Well. These two are obviously the result of some horrendous inbreeding, and must be taken out of the gene pool immediately.

It really sickens me to hear that people can be so clueless about operating systems.

Re:How many? by Shanep · 2001-10-25 03:42 · Score: 1

I'm just curious how many security holes are going to exploited by hackers and crackers in Windows XP....they sure found enough in the earlier versions of windows to fill their time.

Maybe M$ theory is that if they keep churning out bugs and holes, the hackers will eventually just get bored and stop hacking, for a lack of challenge.

--
War crimes, torture, lies, illegal spying... Would someone give Bush a blowjob, already, so he can be impeached?

Back in the day by germinatoras · 2001-10-25 03:42 · Score: 1

It reminds me of an old joke about Microsoft making cars:

Deploy Airbag? [Yes / No]

Stability by mcb · 2001-10-25 03:43 · Score: 1

I've had xp on my dell laptop for a few weeks now (have a friend who knows a retailer), and never experienced a system crash. The wireless tools are pretty awesome, the power management is great, and the font smoothing for LCDs (cleartype) looks freaking amazing.

As for entering personal information, I didn't enter anything anywhere, so I don't know what to say about that. I have Debian on here, but I rarely boot it anymore with the stability of Office XP in WinXP. My desktop still runs sid non stop, though.

I can fly! I can fly! by peter303 · 2001-10-25 03:45 · Score: 2

The XP TV commercial reminds of Peter Pan or a Clariton commercial. The new user of XP flies around the world like Superman. Sort whimsical like the long-gone dot.com commercials.

Re:I can fly! I can fly! by FrankNputer · 2001-10-25 06:43 · Score: 1

Isn't this the classic line that every hapless LSD user is supposed to blurt out - right before crashing thru a window? :)

My Thoughts and Impressions (WinXP Pro) by iofire · 2001-10-25 03:45 · Score: 1

I've been using Windows XP Professional for a couple weeks now (the final version, clean install) and here's what I have to say about:

- Overall, it has a pretty nice feel to it, especially after a bit of tweaking it to get it how you want it. ( take a look at http://www.tweakxp.com for some tips for this ) The boot time and program loading times are rather fast and the OS in general seems to be very responsive, especially with a lot of RAM. (768 MB in my case) The memory management seems to be pretty good...there are some new settings under System Properties-->Advanced-->Performance Options-->Advanced that are related to this. Power users will want to mess with the view options under folder options right away. Also check out some of the new settings in the display and taskbar control panels.

- Hardware/Software Issues...I use an ASUS A7V133 Motherboard with an onbard promise ata100 cotnroller, and I was unable to set up windows or boot windows after setting it up with my main drive (ibm 60gxp ata100) connected through the ata100 mode. I tried using the windows 2000 promise driver and the native windows xp driver, but both had the same problem, so I've had to run my hard drive in ata33 mode :( I did a search on google and found another person having a similar issue, so I'm not sure what the problem is. Hopefully this will be fixed sometime soon. A bit of problems with some random software, but it was fixed in an update that was recently made available on windows update (be sure to check there for patches and driver updates)

- Remote desktop, this is a nice feature, especially since you can enable it to be used through your webserver (IIS) and run via an activex component installed on the browser of the computer using it, or through a client that you can install from the cd. The downside: if you login remotely, it will kill your local login, so only one login at a time

- Annoyances, I'm used to configuring IIS and other networking settings in windows 2000 server, and I've been noticing that many of the options are disabled (grayed out), esepcially options that are important for secure setups (ip based access permission and whatnot)...this was rather frustrating for me, but it likely was an issue with windows 2000 professional as well...basically don't expect much from it as a server, unless it's for real unimportant purposes (yeah, I know, it's silly to use it in such a fashion, but it's conveinent to have such functions available to make files available to your friends/yourself at other locations, etc)

- Gaming, seems to work great, I've had no problems with Max Payne and the Wolfenstein Multiplayer Test (although I don't know about older games)

- Concerns, although it isn't too hard to use the applications you want (ie, zonealarm for a firewall, winamp for mp3s, EAC/LAME for ripping/encoding, winZIP for zipped files, etc) odds are the average user will end up using Microsoft's programs just because it's there...this is the same sort of anti-competitive behavior we've seen in the past, although it doesn't really affect me much

- "Product Activation" somewhat annoying, probably failry effective against piracy, althought it seems to tolerate minor changes in hardware configuration (change of video card, etc)

- The new powertoys have some nice stuff, including virtual desktops similar to those found in most window managers :)

- User sitching is kinda neat, I still prefer the multi-user system of unix-ased systems

- System rollback stuff, like windows ME but expanded a bit...I disabled it, eats up lots of space, although could be nice for some people

- Stability is good, haven't had it crash once...

- Bottom Line: fairly nice, consider using it if you're using Win9x right now, although probably not worth using over windows 2000...and be sure you have a ~500 mhz+ processor and 192mb+ to make it run smoothly (and it runs quite smoothly with those specs, according to a friend)

--
--Avoid metagame thinking, browse with scores hidden (This sig is in violation of itself)

Re:I have... by drsquare · 2001-10-25 03:48 · Score: 1

/etc is a monstrocity? If having all the config files in one place, all logically set out and well documented, what would the Windows registry be? A complete fuckup? At least with Linux all the config files are in the same place, not scattered about all over the disk like Windows.

Not surprising at all. by Shivetya · 2001-10-25 03:49 · Score: 2

The computer press is notoriously chicken-shit follow the herd mentatlity. Currently MS is not in favor, it is "Politically Correct" to bash them

So... what you expect?

--
* Winners compare their achievements to their goals, losers compare theirs to that of others.

Save money by DiveX · 2001-10-25 03:49 · Score: 1

If, for whatever reason, you decide to get the new Windows OS, don't waste money in purchasing it at the retail store. Even the professional 'upgrade' from previous versions costs 199$ across the board, however if you buy the OEM edition with some hardware, then it can be had for about 136$. There are several sites (easily found through www.pricewatch.com) that will sell something like a 1.50 power cord with it to meet the hardware requirement.

--
Cave, wreck, and deep diver.

Re:Save money by DiveX · 2001-10-25 07:35 · Score: 1

From what I have seen from the license requirements of W2K, it DOES stipulate that significant hardware (e.g. hard drive or motherboards) must be purchased, but for some reason the new XPOS does not require any specific pice of hardware. I am only reporting what I found on the web sites that list this method. At first glance it appears as a legitimate workaround for full retail pricing. If there is anything conclusive to the contrary, then please let me know as I am not going to knowingly obtain this using illicit methods.

--
Cave, wreck, and deep diver.

Just give your browser a disguise! by danaris · 2001-10-25 03:52 · Score: 1

Of course, what MSN says and what is really true do NOT match up--it says that "the browser you are using will not render MSN.com correctly." But when I use OmniWeb (which can tell websites that ask that it's something different) saying it's IE, it works fine. Sooo...M$ is (as usual) lying, and you don't need IE, they just want to make you get it.

Dan Aris

--
Fun. Free. Online. RPG. BattleMaster.

Re:Just give your browser a disguise! by mgpeter · 2001-10-25 04:24 · Score: 1

Works perfectly now, and I am using Konqueror disquised as IE 5.5 on Windows 2000!

Thanks.

Chicago, Cairo, Memphis, Whistler by Mr.+Neutron · 2001-10-25 03:52 · Score: 4, Informative

For the sake of clarification:

CHICAGO: Code name for Win95
CAIRO: Code name for NT 4.0
MEMPHIS: Code name for Win98
WHISTLER: Code name for WinXP

HTH.

--
dinner: it's what's for beer

Re:Chicago, Cairo, Memphis, Whistler by flegged · 2001-10-25 07:07 · Score: 1

Blackcombe : Code name for what is to come after XP.

They got bored of using cities for place names and started using ski resorts.

--

"I think he was truly surprised at how little I cared about how big a market the Mac had" - Linus on Jobs

...which is being discontinued by the way by r0wan · 2001-10-25 03:53 · Score: 1

according to Microsoft.

--
If you're not outraged, you're not paying attention.

The move to Linux - CAD? Games? by CamelTrader · 2001-10-25 03:58 · Score: 1

XP marks my release from windows bondage to linux freedom. I've never had much motivation to make all my previous linux distros work since I could just pop over to windows (and no games!). Couple that with the fact that I'm usually using old junky hardware, and I've never gotten much farther than the base installation. Sure, I could keep running 2k and 98se on all my home machines, for quite a while. But when the XP bomb mmmm...DrOpZ? I want to have as much linux knowledge as possible, because I will be moving everyone I provide tech support to (small circle of friends) to linux. Which brings me around to my subject line. I have a friend who is an architect, and he is gung-ho about moving to linux with me. What linux based (not necessarily free) CAD programs exist, and how good are they?

--
Your .sig is important to us. Please hold.

I am a win user and No i couldnt bother less by Insipid+Trunculance · 2001-10-25 04:03 · Score: 1

I use win98SE & W2K and have no intention of moving.
I use V studio 6 for my developemnt and i am not changing them either.

the same's true for most of the people i know.The
truth is after giving us crappy things M$ gave us W2K,a very decent OS,so its a case of settling for the satisfactory.

--
Wanted : A Signature.

Re:I am a win user and No i couldnt bother less by alfredo · 2001-10-25 04:38 · Score: 1

the sad thing is, they will most likely make it so inconvenient for you, you will have to move to XP to stay connected with the rest of the world.

XP was not for the advancement of technology, but for revenue growth. Because they have saturated the market, there is nowhere to go but over the ground they have already plowed.

XP is a trap, and you are smart enough and unwilling to enter. Sooner or later they will have to make you enter. They have no choice. they have to trap you into an expensive cycle of upgrades and fees for service.

Work for alternatives. Urge Palm to open BeOS, support OSX and the Nix's. Use non MS technology like Mozilla and Real Player.

Show your friends that there is something outside of the world according to Redmond.

--
photosMy Photostream
Re:I am a win user and No i couldnt bother less by alyandon · 2001-10-25 06:26 · Score: 1

Microsoft definately outdid themselves in the stability department with Windows 2000 (not that any version of NT was inheriently unstable). I also do all my development in VS 6.0 for win32 stuff.

Windows 2000's stability (plus its ability to support most Windows 9x apps) has destroyed any motivation for me to upgrade to XP.

Microsoft is going to find itself in a increasingly difficult position as its core OS matures (increasing compatibility + stability). I used to run Windows 98 and NT 4.0 in a dual-boot configuration since I do play games that wouldn't run under NT 4.0. Now that I've replaced those two separate products with Windows 2000... Microsoft (at best) can only get half the money out of me that they used to...

They cloned Linux consoles by Per+Abrahamsen · 2001-10-25 04:04 · Score: 2

With XP, you can have multiple desktops running as different users, and switch between them with a hotkey.

This is the one feature of my Debian box I miss most when using my NT 4.0 box. I don't think it is worth upgrading for, though. I'm pretty happy with NT 4.0 otherwise.

Not Cairo by Cato · 2001-10-25 04:06 · Score: 2

Cairo was much-hyped but never delivered. It was to be the successor to NT 3.x, and MS talked about it before Chicago (Win95) was launched, as early as l993. Cairo was meant to have lots of neat features such as dragging components from one window into another (a bit like drag and drop of text, but of a live object such as a news ticker), and a clever object oriented distributed file system.

Great demos, but like all the best vaporware, it never actually went from cloud form to solid... Instead, NT 4.0 was delivered, which had only a few new features other than the Win95 shell.

XP by dmnic · 2001-10-25 04:12 · Score: 1

after using XP Pro(corp edition...the one that DOESNT require activation codes :) for a couple of weeks now, I have to admit it is damn good! it is much faster than any previous M$ OS(POST -> desktop in a whopping 45 seconds on a PIII 600).
my only complaint is the sheer number of damn GUI's you have to go through to change ANYTHING! also, IE 6 could possibly be the slowest browser M$ has created thus-far...clunk clunk clunk . . .

--
the history of the world

Re:The move to Linux - CAD? Games? by gruntvald · 2001-10-25 04:12 · Score: 1

There are few CAD systems for Linux, and the ones that are available are garbage. I tried a "trial version" of one (forget the name) that came with some RedHat power tools CD. It was asking to save my drawings in C:\ and looked like it was written for an EGA adapter.

Sorry to Microsoft by avel599 · 2001-10-25 04:18 · Score: 1

I'd like to apologize to Microsoft for this; we released 0.03 of our gnutella servent program for Linux, gnewtellium, just today as well.

Will you forgive us, MS? We didn't mean it.

In case you were unsure what i meant by MrFredBloggs · 2001-10-25 04:19 · Score: 1

(and not just being sarcastic!)

http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=01/09/21/1438 25 1&mode=nested

What is with the X? by CarrotLord · 2001-10-25 04:20 · Score: 2

We now have Mac OS X and Windows XP (and Office XP, Athlon XP, etc). It seems that every new release of software has an X in it. Why? I suggest it's because of Linux.

Linux grew from UN*X, which has X Windows... Linux is the flavour of the month atm, and I suggest that MS and Apple want to gain some sort of goodwill from dumb consumers by using the "X" to create some sort of subconcious link.

It's my theory and I'm sticking with it!

--
Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur.

Right | Re:the real meaning of XP by clarkie.mg · 2001-10-25 04:24 · Score: 1

2. XP is for eXPires
Microsoft has invented the software that eXPires as the customer can only install the software a certain number of times.

> There is no limit to the number of times you can install. Just as long as you're not installing it on different computers every time.

Wow, looks like I messed up my mind with that. Anyway it still expires but later.

--
Men are born ignorant, not stupid; they are made stupid by education. Bertrand Russel

.NET will rule the Internet by Anenga · 2001-10-25 04:28 · Score: 1

Microsoft's new .NET, from what I can see, is amazing. It's not even that hard to code or to setup, yet it's a fantastic idea and is extremely ideal for the Internet.

It's going to be like a black hole, consuming all of the competition. If you ask me, Linux should make a "Passport"-like infastructure. AOL is. They're Magic Carpet theme is going to be introduced in a week in their AIM v4.8 release.

Without .NET, I wouldn't even be interested in XP.

Re:.NET will rule the Internet by Cro+Magnon · 2001-10-25 08:26 · Score: 1

"It's going to be like a black hole, consuming all of the competition."

You're half right. It will be like a black hole. It will really, really suck!

--
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.

no multi user licence for the family by bug1 · 2001-10-25 04:30 · Score: 1

"It is also family-friendly. Each computer can be used by a number of different members of the household"

This is very generous of microsoft, im sure in future release they will want to remove this benefit.

Image the extra profit if they could charge the full retial price to every member of the family who uses it.

Re:no multi user licence for the family by Hoi+Polloi · 2001-10-25 05:29 · Score: 1

Actually they will change the license so that you get charged for using XP by the hour.

--
It is by the juice of the coffee bean that thoughts acquire speed, the teeth acquire stains. The stains become a warning

Thanks for announcing XP by ravic · 2001-10-25 04:33 · Score: 1

Historical note: Slashdot never announced the release of Windows 2000 (but hey, Redhat 7.1.0
.1.1.12.2.a is always a great post!)

--
Dont eat yellow snow

Re:Fisher-Price designed their GUI by hey · 2001-10-25 04:39 · Score: 1

You're close, it's designed after the Teletubbies. Geeze, first they copy the Mac and now this.

While the XP release is news... by Karza · 2001-10-25 04:43 · Score: 1

...personally, I was more excited to get Red Hat's 7.2 release on Monday. Dollar for Dollar it's the best Operating system for the i386 architecture on the market.

Click here to start the FUN eXPerience. =)

--
--I don't mind the school of hard knocks, it's those darned refresher courses I hate. =)

Re:While the XP release is news... by omega9 · 2001-10-25 05:51 · Score: 1

I was excited about Red Hat 7.2 also. But what's up with their new pricing?

Used to be Standard=$29.95, Workstation=$69.95(?), and Pro=$129.95. (Those are wrong I think). Now they have Workstation=$59.95 and Pro=$199.95. Hey, I know this is free shit but why the ramp?

--
I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it.

Re:I have... by i_am_nitrogen · 2001-10-25 04:46 · Score: 1

Indeed. The configuration files are named after the programs themselves, or in categories.

--
A solution to the problem with music today

Reconsider your purchase for tonight.... by cnelzie · 2001-10-25 04:49 · Score: 2

I work in a smaller retail computer store for one of my jobs. We have had XP Home installed on a few machines for nearly a month now. Not a RC, but the full blown OEM release.

Anyway, I have tested this version of Windows with several game titles from my collection. While these games and applications work fine in Windows 98 SE, they will not run in XP. Even with the proper "Emulation" setting.

While these are older games, some of them are still full of fun for me. I would recomend awaiting some people running tests with most of the older games that you own prior to running out and buying XP Home/Pro. Personally, I was considering running XP until I found that a few of my older games and apps were unable to run under this new OS.

--
.sig seperator
--

--
If you ignore the other uses of a tool, does that make the tool less useful, or you less useful?

Speaking to the stability issue by ghost. · 2001-10-25 04:50 · Score: 1

Just thought I'd throw this into the soup; it's a cut from John Dvorak's Inside Track [pcmag.com] column, 10/30/2001:

"...Meanwhile, will Win XP reignite the PC market? Many people think so, because it crashes less and people will flock to it. Every new Microsoft operating system crashes less when you first get it. Only after your system is loaded up with too many unruly applications will your PC begin to degrade. This might take years. TechTracker (www.techtracker.com) is trying to document system failure on a grand scale by monitoring the Registry and other aspects of a statistically significant number of systems in hopes of finding the odd combinations of applications that make Windows suddenly become unstable. Currently, TechTracker software and its acclaimed cohort VersionTracker.com maintain a database of up-to-date versions of software, which may help people isolate nagging problems. This concept interests me, since I have a Windows 2000 system that has become unstable and reboots itself every half hour. This kicked in after I installed some USB devices. Ack!"

Then again, it's Dvorak, so make of it what you will.

--
Bush is a cylon.

CNN has absolutely NO idea... by Relyt · 2001-10-25 04:54 · Score: 1

From CNN:
"The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive."

[sarcasm]
Wow! I can delete stuff now?!?!?

I must spend $300 RIGHT AWAY!!!
[/sarcasm]

Doing your duty by Com2Kid · 2001-10-25 04:54 · Score: 1

I have convinced at least 10 people to switch over to a *nix OS when they become forced to use XP by microsofts standard bullying practices.

How many people have you converted? What are your success stories? ;)

--
Need help treating your acne? Come here!

Data Destruction by virg_mattes · 2001-10-25 04:56 · Score: 2

> i've heard that the only way to be sure that your data can't be
> recovered is to physically destroy the hard drive, i.e. by smashing
> it into little bits and tossing it into the ocean.

What a blatant exaggeration! You don't need to toss it into the ocean. Certainly a lake or even a small pond will do.

Seriously, though, it's possible to recover data (even layers of data) from a hard drive after it's been overwritten, but only with extremely sensitive equipment. The simple analysis is this: when a data bit starts at 0 (when the drive is manufactured), it carries no charge on the surface of the platter (0 volts or a close approximation). Write a zero, you don't change the voltage at that spot. Write a one, and you push it up to 1 volt (okay, it's not one volt, but only a tiny fraction of that much, but this is only for illustrative purposes). However, you really only push it up close to one volt (say, 0.98 volts). Next, write a one and you push it up a little more (0.983 volts) or a zero and push it near zero (0.007 volts) and so on. Put the platter under a device capable of detecting voltages small enough, and you can (fairly) accurately recreate what was on the disk, even several data passes back. It should be noted, however, that very, very few agencies have access to this level of technology, and it's ususally reserved for extreme cases. So, to protect yourself from the Man, you're safe to use a shredder program (three passes at least), but if you want 100% security, physical destruction is the only absolutely surefire method.

Virg

BSOD to GSOD by Amon+CMB · 2001-10-25 05:01 · Score: 2

Now with XP's new exciting color features, it's the:

Gradient Screen Of Death

Two shades of blue, your choice.

--

Men believe what they want. - Caesar

Re:Why? I like OS/2 by updatelee · 2001-10-25 05:04 · Score: 1

accually I have to correct you on one thing. I have windows xp and windows 2k installed on two laptops. BOTH can be setup to use NTFS or FAT32.

windows 2000 on install asks you if you want NTFS or FAT32

windows XP on install asks you if you want NTS or FAT32

I also on another note, I find winXP alot faster then win2k

Chris Lee
lee@mediawaveonline.com

Slashdot is so predictable by smblion · 2001-10-25 05:04 · Score: 1

I love this place. Having read the post, I knew, before hitting the 'read more' button, what I was going to see. There would be people making jokes, of course, which is always good. There would be people saying that today is a sad day for software, there'd be people talking about why their country is better than ours (What the hell is that crap about? For the record, Steve Ballmer is in Europe today. Stop thinking you're so ****ing special). I'd see people saying all the reasons why XP is the devil's OS and how Linux is so great. Hello, this is slashdot people. We know linux is great, you don't have to preach to the choir. I'd see, very few, POSITIVE messages about XP. The sad thing is, everyone likes XP. Everyone except self-absorbed geeks who don't like it simply because microsofts name is on it. A good deal of these same geeks use other windows OSes, yet go on about how crappy they are. Hypocritical?

Sorry, a tagent. What I was going to say, is that I haven't seen a bad review of XP by a reputable source yet. People knock the candy interface, and that's fine.. it is aweful shiny, and some people still use clacky keyboards and drive junkers from the 70s. That's personal preference, and that can also be changed for you guys who like the old style. However, it's been said by several people, that everyone who tries XP for any good length of time, CAN'T go back. It's just BETTER. It's a huge, no, mammoth improvement over the 9X line. It's not as big an improvement over 2K. The home version actually loses some things. The pro version however, does include some nice features, but for the most part, it's not something you MUST do.

smb

Re:Reconsider your purchase (Details!) by anonicon · 2001-10-25 05:05 · Score: 1

Glad to know older games don't run under XP, even if under emulation mode. Now, will you do everyone a favor and let us know what those games are? Otherwise, your comments won't help anyone.

Please let us know what games you're talking about...Thank you!

Not my internet by Arcturax · 2001-10-25 05:06 · Score: 1

You can keep the XP internet if you like. I for one am sticking with the real internet, the one built on non-proprietary standards. The internet that has been around for decades and was the haven of the geeks and intellectuals (well the majority of us anyway) until AOHELL and MSN and a few others came about. If M$ and AOHELL want to form their own proprietary internets and take the hoards of the unwashed with them, they are more than welcome to do so. The rest of us who got into the internet before it became a fad will stay behind, happy again to be mostly free of the SPAM, lamers, trolls, idiots, script kiddies and clueless morons who have been tainting our internet experience since the mid 90's.

Obviously we will still be on the same physical network, but as long as M$ and AOHELL throw up the big walls to keep their little clubs members only, well that just bungs up what is mostly the worst elements of the internet within those rather large camps.

I for one can't wait to see the internet I knew and loved to return. We shall see if it happens, only time will tell... I for one will be very happy never to have to commuicate with another AOHELL or MSN user.

--

--Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs

The Hype by ackthpt · 2001-10-25 05:06 · Score: 2

while the industry seems hyped up about it

I read an article on Yahoo news about this and the hype (positive encouragement to spend-'n'-buy) was from a far from neutral party:

Big businesses could trim technology costs by up to 15 percent by installing Windows XP, compared with savings of 10 percent for Windows 2000, said John McKenna, chief executive of Siemens Business Systems, which is helping other firms roll out XP on their networks.
``It might be a bit counter-intuitive, but even in challenging economic times there will be a great movement to migrate to the new platform because it can have a dramatic reduction in costs for large enterprises,'' McKenna said

But, let me guess, you only save that money if they help you ;-)

--

A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar

....curious by NTSwerver · 2001-10-25 05:06 · Score: 1

What about if you write zeros to every block on the disk and repeated the process a few times?

--
-----------------------
Moderator's essentials

deleting data from your hard drive... by hAkron · 2001-10-25 05:08 · Score: 1

(from the CNN article)The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive.

Delete data from my own hard drive? What is this the year 2078? What an amazing feature!! What the heck are they talking about?

Today's technology, 40 years from now! by dghcasp · 2001-10-25 05:09 · Score: 1

The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive.

Now I know it's time to switch from unix to windows: They finally have the 'rm' program! No more having to buy a new hard drive every time it fills up! Wheeee!

Re:Today's technology, 40 years from now! by Legion303 · 2001-10-25 06:09 · Score: 1

Wow, that was almost as funny as it was the first quarter of a million times someone mentioned it here.
Almost.
-Legion

Re:My First Impressions and other features by Corporate+Gadfly · 2001-10-25 05:11 · Score: 1

* multiple simultaneous logins
* integrated zip file support (on a side note, does anyone know how to exclude .zip files when searching within folders. XP decides to open each and every .zip file by uncompressing it first and then searches inside them)
* integrated CD writing support

--
Corporate Gadfly
Jonathan Archer: the most beaten up Enterprise captain in Star Trek history

Cool by Uttles · 2001-10-25 05:11 · Score: 1

Thanks, if I was a moderator I'd mod you up. I appreciate the info.

--

~ now you know

Re:Oh good, a slashdot article on the release of X by Elminst · 2001-10-25 05:15 · Score: 1

This is THE WORST moderating I have ever seen on slashdot.

--
No unauthorized use. Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.

Error Reporting by SrlKlr · 2001-10-25 05:17 · Score: 1

For those of you who are familiar with XP, you are probably familiar with the error reports sent off to Microsoft every time a program crashes, or every time windows crashes. I was thinking this is going to be one hell of a DOS attack against MS as XP goes mainstream.

Re:Why? I like OS/2 by Havokmon · 2001-10-25 05:18 · Score: 1

That's correct. I didn't intend to say XP didn't support NTFS (I chose FAT32), but I've noticed (though I didn't look too hard,so correct me if I'm wrong), XP won't automount NTFS if it's installed FAT32.

Now my Win2k partition is 'protected' (my oldest is 7, I don't expect an accidental NTFS mount :), and completely seperate from the 'general use' OS that XP is to me.

I havn't eXPerienced a speed difference, except on bootup, and my Win2k is loaded to the hilt..

--
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)

Re:Well. It's got ClearType and, uh. by updatelee · 2001-10-25 05:20 · Score: 1

have you accually tried cleartype ? it made my fonts all fuzzy and hard to read, gave me a headache. I turned them off and all the fonts are crisp and clear.

Chris Lee
lee@mediawaveonline.com

EXACTLY! by schon · 2001-10-25 05:21 · Score: 1

The former Mr. Sumner has to start choosing his "causes" more wisely.

Sting, Sting, Sting, where did you go wrong? From Amnesty International to the Rainforest Foundation, you were a backer of the downtrodden, the underdogs. How could you turn on us and promote that Monopolistic company called Microsoft?

According to the report I read, he's doing it because MS promised to dontate a few hundred copies of XP to NY schools that were affected by the Sept. 11 disaster.

I'm guessing that nobody told him that those "copies" don't really cost the company anything, and that the schools would have benefitted more from money than from software they don't need.

Re:Why? I like OS/2 by antek9 · 2001-10-25 05:21 · Score: 1

Not what he said. He said XP won't support his controller, hence neither of the two large drives. File systems for either OS were his choice, obviously.

You first found XP faster, and then Win2K? ;)

--
A World in a Grain of Sand / Heaven in a Wild Flower,
Infinity in the Palm of your Hand / And Eternity in an Hour.

Critical update/patch already out. by eddy · 2001-10-25 05:24 · Score: 3, Interesting

I guess Microsoft is showing its commitment to security, because we already have the first critical update for WinXP out.

Citing HardOCP:

Windows XP Update Package, October 25, 2001- Download size: 1.9 MB - This update resolves all critical issues that were found in Windows XP between August 2001 and October 2001, and is discussed in Microsoft Knowledge Base (KB) Article Q309521. Among the updates included in this package are several that eliminate security vulnerabilities. Download now to ensure that you have all the latest critical updates for Windows XP.

You'd think they'd at least hold onto the last release-candidate for a month or so to make sure no critical issues come up, before making it a master and sending it off to be pressed, no?

--
Belief is the currency of delusion.

Re:Critical update/patch already out. by Anonymous Coward · 2001-10-25 06:44 · Score: 1, Insightful

What happened to 'release early, release often' ??

Or is that just for Red Hat, who has exploits in most CD releases before they're a week old?
Re:Critical update/patch already out. by donutello · 2001-10-25 07:54 · Score: 2

And then after that one month has expired, should they wait another month to wait and see if any more critical update issues have been found? Then another month?

You obviously have no clue about a mature development process. You work your code until there are no major issues found in CURRENT tests. You will always find issues in the future and that's what updates are for.

--
Mmmm.. Donuts
Re:Critical update/patch already out. by aka-ed · 2001-10-25 08:14 · Score: 1

All software that goes gold has to exist in limbo for a while.
The patch is for a recently-discovered exploit in all versions of IE past version 5.01. As I was asked to metamoderate someone who modded you up, I looked into it:
"A vulnerability exists in Internet Explorer 5.01, 5.5, and 6 that could enable an attacker to send you to a third-party site and include commands that, to the third-party site, would appear to have come from you. The precise actions that could be taken by using these commands would vary from site to site, but one example of a potential action would be to send you to your Web-based mail service with a command to delete your mail."
Needless to say, I moderated your moderator down.

--
I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07
Re:Critical update/patch already out. by eddy · 2001-10-25 08:22 · Score: 1

Well, there's a well thought out argument.

Maybe it's you that haven't got a clue about large scale development? I'm not sure how time is allocated for security auditing in your scheme, but in my world it'd be nice if for a large new OS - first release - there'd have to pass at least a month under which time no security problems are found in order for the RC to pass.

If MS had such a period, which I've set at a month quite arbitrary, but something similar, then I have no problem with a patch. You've got to draw the line somewhere. This would say "We've given it our best. We've thrown everything at it. We're reasonably sure we won't have to patch it the day it ships."

However, I suspect the line was drawn at a specific date which says "Let's just get this crap out the door and earn a quick buck, we can always patch it later".

--
Belief is the currency of delusion.
Re:Critical update/patch already out. by eddy · 2001-10-25 08:37 · Score: 1

Needless to say, I moderated your moderator down.

Sucks to be him.

Though I wonder at the language: "Among the updates included in this package are several that eliminate security vulnerabilities." (my emphasis). Call me paranoid, but seeing how IE is such an intergral part of the OS it's quite possible that this fix is a bundle with a whole slew of other fixes in it. That is, the problem described is only one of several actual problems. The old "Quick, look here!"-thing.

In related news, reports are pouring in that the update in question really screws the system up in a variety of ways (lends support to my hypothesis :-). Anyway, looks like they rushed it.

I'm guessing we'll see a new one Real Soon.

--
Belief is the currency of delusion.
Re:Critical update/patch already out. by donutello · 2001-10-25 09:51 · Score: 1

You are a moron. That's called escrow and XP passed through it. Escrow is typically about a week - which is the time it takes for all the automated tests as well as stress tests to pass through the product.

Mature development processes don't depend on monkeys manually testing things at random. They have automated tests which test all the scenarios. Everytime someone comes up with a new scenario, an automated test is written to test it so that it is always verified for every build.

Also, in mature development processes, the product is pretty much locked down for the last several months. Only a limited number of changes are allowed to be checked in and whenever a change is allowed, all possible fallouts of that change - however irrational - are considered and tested for.

You don't actually believe that the RTM date was the day when everyone finished writing their code, do you?

Get a clue.

--
Mmmm.. Donuts
Re:Critical update/patch already out. by aka-ed · 2001-10-26 03:03 · Score: 1

That wording is strange, but apparently it's just boilerplate that uses plural in case plural is needed. I opened up the update executable, it only contains the files needed for the IE update. Doing some quick research, the only problems I'm seeing reported on the critical update are update failures, mostly attributable to security settings, and fear that updating XP might "patch" cracked versions to a non-working state (with no real evidence that it does so).
I'd really like to know the details on any more complex issues arising from this update.
(There are also seven "non-critical" and numerous driver updates available at the Windows update site right now; some users may not be aware which update is causing them problems, particularly if they left "auto-update" on; I've seen some folks trace their problms to driver updates. Rolling back drivers in XP really does seem to work for these.)
I'm not denying that commercial software does have to look at marketing cycles. XP missed "back-to-school," but made it in time for Christmas, so one would think it highly likely that it may have been pushed out the door sooner than would be ideal.
But I haven't seen any real evidence that this is the case. I work in ISP support, so I don't have a choice, I need to work with and support XP every day. I am not anxious to say anything nice about MS, but XP looks like a rare instance of them doing something right (privacy and "leveraging" issues aside).

--
I survived the Dick Cheney Presidency 7 to 9 AM 7-21-07

Where do you think they got the idea? by DCMonkey · 2001-10-25 05:25 · Score: 1

Whistler (aka: Windows XP) beta screenshots.

--
DCMonkey

Lies, Damned Lies and Statistics by virg_mattes · 2001-10-25 05:29 · Score: 2

> Import and manage digital photos and music 27% - home users

What exactly is this supposed to represent? I think I'd like something more specific than "27% useability improvement" to go on. If I do math by pounding a rock on the ground, having two rocks is a "100% useability improvement" but it's still a lousy way to do math. From what did they derive the statistics? How exactly do I translate "27% improvement" into specific gains? What features allow this improvement? Can I expect this much improvement personally, and if not, how much will my mileage vary?

51% improvement isn't very impressive without any context. Now I've got to go find another rock...

Virg

ClearType by kaptkudzoo · 2001-10-25 05:31 · Score: 1

ClearType, the font smoother that is designed especially for lcd screens, is now fully integrated into windows. I think its a great reason to upgrade to xp, it makes a huge difference on my flatpanel.

Anyone that hasn't seen it should check it out: Microsoft ClearType

CNN reveals the best XP feature by marcelk · 2001-10-25 05:31 · Score: 2, Interesting

If you wonder what XP is really about, CNN summarizes it in its very first sentence on XP:

"The [Windows XP] system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive." (cnn.com)

Now, -that- is a killerapp!

Re:Hurrah! by Hieronymous+Cowherd · 2001-10-25 05:35 · Score: 1

Well, from comments of those using it, it seems to be Xperimental Prototype. Crashes regularly (even inside M$, where there should be trained XP support staff), has piles of compatibility problems, etc.

Incredible stability by Mainusch · 2001-10-25 05:36 · Score: 1

I would agree with the assessment that XP gives "incredible stability".

in-cred-ible adj. 1 not credible 2 seeming too unusual to be possible --in-cred'ibil'ity n. --in-cred'ibly adv.

--
Joe Mainusch http://www.weber-amps.com

Re:Oh good, a slashdot article on the release of X by MindStalker · 2001-10-25 05:38 · Score: 2

Not nearly as insightful as the first paragraph of the article.
The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive.

It finally allows me to delete my data? What? This is a new feature? what??? hu???
Maby they meant, "and will delete random data from users hard drive".

Ok that makes sense. I feel better now.

Microsoft eXPosed! by ackthpt · 2001-10-25 05:44 · Score: 2

Someone just pointed this out, do a whois microsoft.com in your favorite shell, I got the following:

whois microsoft.com

Whois Server Version 1.3

Domain names in the .com, .net, and .org domains can now be registered with many different competing registrars. Go to http://www.internic.net for detailed information.

MICROSOFT.COM.ZZZ.SUCKS.AZZ.PHAEN.AS MICROSOFT.COM.Z---HELLO-FROM-SIBERIA---I.Z3S.COM MICROSOFT.COM.WILL.NEVER.SATISFY.A.TRUE.TELNETJUNK IE.COM MICROSOFT.COM.WILL.NEVER.RUN.PUREDATA.NET MICROSOFT.COM.WILL.LIVE.FOREVER.BUT.LUNIX.SUCKS-BY BIRTH.ARTISTICCHEESE.COM MICROSOFT.COM.WILL.ALWAYS.FEARPENGUINS.COM MICROSOFT.COM.WHOIS.RESULTS.MAKE.A.GREAT.HUMOUR-LI ST.COM MICROSOFT.COM.WAS.HACKED.TODAY.BY.JAMESSMALL.COM MICROSOFT.COM.TONY.HAS.SEXUAL.IN.ADEQUACY.ORG MICROSOFT.COM.TOLD.ME.TO.KILL.UR.PC.LIVE-EVIL.COM MICROSOFT.COM.TOHA.KANKEI.ARIMASEN.300BPS.NET MICROSOFT.COM.TAKES.IT.IN.THE.BUTT.FROM.WHILE1.ORG MICROSOFT.COM.SUKZ.ORG MICROSOFT.COM.SHOULD.GIVE.UP.BECAUSE.LINUXISGOD.CO M MICROSOFT.COM.SE.FAIT.HAX0RIZER.PAR.TOUT.LE.ZOY.OR G MICROSOFT.COM.RUNSLINUX.NET MICROSOFT.COM.PRODUCTS.WILL.NEVER.BE.SEEN.AT.MCNEI GHT.ORG MICROSOFT.COM.OWNED.BY.MAT.HACKSWARE.COM MICROSOFT.COM.NOTHING.HAPPENS.XYZZY.COM MICROSOFT.COM.NAO.VALE.UM.CARALHO.NET MICROSOFT.COM.N-AIME.BILL.QUE.QUAND.IL.N-EST.PAS.N U MICROSOFT.COM.MUST.STOP.TAKEDRUGS.ORG MICROSOFT.COM.MAKES.SHIT.ASS.SOFTWARE.T10.NET MICROSOFT.COM.IS.THE.COMMERCIAL.ARM.OF.THE.WORLDGO V.ORG MICROSOFT.COM.IS.SOON.GOING.TO.THE.DEATHCORPORATIO N.COM MICROSOFT.COM.IS.SO.VERY.SKANKY.NET MICROSOFT.COM.IS.SECRETLY.RUN.BY.ILLUMINATI.TERROR ISTS.NET MICROSOFT.COM.IS.NOTHING.COMPARED.TO.EVILGOAT.NET MICROSOFT.COM.IS.NOTHING.BUT.A.MONSTER.ORG MICROSOFT.COM.IS.NO.MATCH.FOR.THE.WANNABE.TERRORIS TS.AT.JIMPHILLIPS.ORG MICROSOFT.COM.IS.NO.MATCH.FOR.A.UNIXNINJA.COM MICROSOFT.COM.IS.HOPELESSLY.INSECURE.ORG MICROSOFT.COM.IS.GOD.BUT.LINUX.SUCKS-FOREVER.ARTIS TICCHEESE.COM MICROSOFT.COM.IS.AT.THE.MERCY.OF.DETRIMENT.ORG MICROSOFT.COM.IS.A.STEAMING.HEAP.OF.FUCKING-BULLSH IT.NET MICROSOFT.COM.HQ.SHOULD.HAVE.BEEN.MOVED.TO.BAGDAD. JUST.BEFORE.THE.GULFWAR.ORG MICROSOFT.COM.HEBERGEUR.DE.SCHIZOPHRENE.ORG MICROSOFT.COM.HAS.NO.LINUXCLUE.COM MICROSOFT.COM.HACKED.BY.HACKSWARE.COM MICROSOFT.COM.GUTS.NL MICROSOFT.COM.FILLS.ME.WITH.BELLIGERENCE.NET MICROSOFT.COM.FAIT.VRAIMENT.DES.LOGICIELS.A.TROIS. FRANCS.DOUZE.ORG MICROSOFT.COM.DAN.HILLIER.OF.EXETER.UK.IS.A.DUMB.A SS.EVILJAM.COM MICROSOFT.COM.CODERS.SHOULD.DUMP.WINDOWS.AND.CODE. FOR.THE.MORE.PRACTICALMAC.COM MICROSOFT.COM.CANNOT.HACKUNIX.ORG MICROSOFT.COM.AINT.WORTH.SHIT.KLUGE.ORG MICROSOFT.COM.A.ETE.CREE.PAR.BILLOU.A.L.EPOQUE.OU. IL.FUMAIT.DU.COLA-COCA.ORG MICROSOFT.COM.A.BIEN.BU.DU.COLA-COCA.SUR.L.ILE.DE. NUMEA.COM MICROSOFT.COM

To single out one record, look it up with "xxx", where xxx is one of the of the records displayed above. If the records are the same, look them up with "=xxx" to receive a full display for each record.

>>> Last update of whois database: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 05:14:14 EDT The Registry database contains ONLY .COM, .NET, .ORG, .EDU domains and Registrars.

--

A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar

Re:Microsoft eXPosed! by Thing+1 · 2001-10-25 18:39 · Score: 1

Even freakier, see jamessmall.com -- it was the first-listed URL, and it boasted "microsoft.com.was.hacked.today.by.jamessmall.com" , so I went to see what was there and it turns out this guy just got hit by a fire. Details at the above link, but sketchy as to what started it etc. I posted a reply, saying he may want to mention to the cops that someone put his name there (unless he was the hacker).

--
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.

Re:Suse 7.3 by MindStalker · 2001-10-25 05:44 · Score: 1

I did not know that, thank you
Downloading susi as I speak! :)

From a Win98 user... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · 2001-10-25 05:46 · Score: 2

OTOH, it's a massive upgrade to W95/8/ME users. Anything to finally put a stake through that miserable series of crapware is a good thing for the world.

Speaking as a Win98 user, I have no intention to "upgrade". For a start, I'd need to buy a whole new PC, because my 1998-era PII/350 wouldn't get near running XP properly. (In contrast, my properly-set-up Win98 box is generally reliable, and runs my 'net stuff, word processor and games just fine, thank you.) And if I get a whole new PC, you can bet I'm finally going to get around to installing a nice free OS, not the latest offering from Microsoft, with all the unfriendly things that go with it. Sorry, I've done my homework, I've looked at what it does and doesn't do, and I'm not interested.

--
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.

Re:From a Win98 user... by m_evanchik · 2001-10-25 06:56 · Score: 1

I have the same impression. I'm running a celery400 with 192 MB SDRAM on a Mobo with integrated ATI 3d rage pro.

This article:
http://www.anandtech.com/IT/showdoc.html?i=1505& p= 1
at anandtech makes it pretty clear that XP will perform slower than earlier Windows, especially on older hardware. All those bells and whistles take clock cycles.

$150 for XP Pro isn't bad, but then when
I factor in another $300-$400 for a new processor, mobo, videocard, memory,(and maybe case, since this power supply probably won't handle an athlon or pentium 4), etc, I start getting hesitant.

And I also don't want to go through the annoyance of getting rid of all the marketing that microsoft make syou suffer through on a new OS install.

--
evanchik.net
Re:From a Win98 user... by Anonymous+Brave+Guy · 2001-10-26 03:22 · Score: 2

On the (small and possibly entirely unrepresentative) sample of machines I've seen it run on, performance took a hit. All the bells and whistles cost cycles, simple as that. YMMV, of course.

However, I'm not the only one. Check out this story at Anandtech comparing 2000 and XP. Note that they were basing their research on RC1 and not the final version, however, so again things may have changed somewhat.

--
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.

Get a grip! by JB · 2001-10-25 05:46 · Score: 1

Half the posts so far are making fun of MS, or the name of XP or some other gay shit. And this is going to be worth subscribing to? Yes we all know MS is an evil company, but that doesn't mean the OS is crap.

I've been using the Pro Corp version for a month, and honestly I can't think why in the world I would boot into FreeBSD/Gnome. Don't get me wrong, I love BSD/Gnome, but what is it that it offers me that is head and shoulders above XP? I think the answer, if you're using your computer as most do (for a workstation, NOT a server of ANY kind), is pretty much nothing.

And anyway, who the hell pays for an OS...commercial or not...if you're 3133+, as many think they are, then you can obtain whatever version you want for the same price as a Linux ISO.

Microsoft is Soooo smart... by i_am_nitrogen · 2001-10-25 05:51 · Score: 1

http://internetbuild14/us/products/windows/ntserve r/results.asp?qu=linux+myths

that when I search for linux myths on their webpage, to find a document I remember for some research I'm doing, it should produce a URL as such. Internetbuild14, eh?

--
A solution to the problem with music today

Re:Sorry, Win what? by TheGreek · 2001-10-25 05:55 · Score: 1

We just started doing our NT 4 Workstation to Windows 2000 migration on all our desktops.

Today.

The irony escaped everybody but me.

Forcing upgrades to XP by Andreas(R) · 2001-10-25 06:02 · Score: 1

Okay, it's been like 1 year since MS realeased Windows 2000. Why should they force us to upgrade again?

When WinXP becomes the most popular OS, MS forces companies/users to upgrade. Why? Because most of XP-technologies aren't backward compatible. Example: If one of two cooperating companies upgrade to XP, the other has to follow to be able to continue cooperating. Microsoft is deliberately outdating older versions. (Word docs is one example)

-Does the OS add any "killer-app" features? NO!
-Is XP neccecary? NO!

In my opinion, Windows XP is just "Yet Another Service Pack for Windows 95"...

Then again, what to expect from a Slashdot post : )

Re:Forcing upgrades to XP by burgy · 2001-10-25 08:00 · Score: 2, Funny

You're wrong. Windows XP is a service pack for MS-DOS 3.3.

Re:can play old games -XP is quite ok by Guillaume+Ross · 2001-10-25 06:03 · Score: 1

Won't run NFS:PU :( And rogue spear won't run either but Red Storms suck...how long was it until you could run a version of Rainbow six in Win2k... :(

Yeah.. that's what I see too. by mindstrm · 2001-10-25 06:06 · Score: 2

Though Win2k was not an upgrade from win98.. it was an upgrade from NT4 (it's just NT5)

It was win95/98/ME

For those in the 9x chain, XP is quite a leap.. but 2k would have been good too.

Re:Yeah.. that's what I see too. by Lord_Sy · 2001-10-25 23:31 · Score: 1

Win2KK performs better than WinXP, there's no
reason to downgrade to it, as there was no reason
to downgrade from Win98SE to WinMe.
And there's no reason at all to BUY software!!!
You could do a favor to yourself and an effort to
learn use *nix and donate that money to people
who really needs.
But the world is a place where shits like you
give money to bigger shits like microsoft to
create big monopolies and kill people of hungry,
and then those hungry peoples get one of them on
the business and he destinates their money to
crash airplanes against your symbolic buildings.
And then your country goes and use the money
earned to buind weapons and kill more people,
and sell those weapons, and that money comes
back to your country (not you, the companies
that create the technology for your government),
and you live your life as if nothing were
happening...
And when you get paid for your job (sucking
cocks), you go to the computer-store, and buy
the latest version of the only operative system
you know how to use -because other things are
so very strange (communism) and you fear that-,
so you decide to suck billy's ass (after all,
you work sucking dicks, it's good to try new
things sometimes)... and the thing keeps going
on.

Thank you for helping the world to be the place it is!

--
--- "pero toda poesía es hostil al capitalismo"

I tried to buy WinXP by WillSeattle · 2001-10-25 06:09 · Score: 1, Troll

But they turned me away.

My IQ wasn't low enough.

--
--- Will in Seattle - What are you doing to fight the War?

My first Windows by Bender+Unit+22 · 2001-10-25 06:10 · Score: 2, Funny

Looking at the new "enhanced" GUI makes me think that it should have been called "My first Windows" instead of XP.

what's the big? by PONA-Boy · 2001-10-25 06:11 · Score: 1

I really (dion't) hate to say it but:

What's the big friggin' deal? I have managed to ubiquitously entrench a couple of Linux boxes here in the network and have slowly gained leverage over the fee-based applications here. Our workstations are all wintel boxen and will probably stay that way for the rest of their usable life. We don't have 2000 right now and _certainly_ aren't planning to move to XP!!!

Our current hardware (sans the occasional failure) is more than capable to handle our business functions for the next upteen years. If you factor in a move to Open Source applications, we can extend their usability out even longer. The release of XP is _such_ a non-event!!!

-PONA-
King of the who?.sig

--
+that's funny...I don't FEEL tardy.+

OS X and XP by Stenpas · 2001-10-25 06:12 · Score: 1

All right guys...story time. Sit around the fire now and start flamin' those marshmellows.

Back in the day of 1996 or 1997, Apple bought NeXt. Then Apple kicked out their CEO and replaced him with Steve Jobs. He started using NeXt technologies and Apple's vast resources to make MacOS X.

In 1998 or so, we start hearing about it. No screenshots yet I believe, but Cocoa and Carbon were revealed. Adobe and Macromedia specifically praised carbon, since they wouldn't have to fully rewrite their apps. They'd only have to rewrite 10-30% of the code, which is 70-90% less rewriting than if Apple stuck with their original plan, Rhapsody.

Then on September 13th, 2000, Apple released MacOS X public beta. This costed $20, and a whole lot of people bought it. This is when Microsoft freaked out. Shortly after this, they announced Whistler. They said this upgrade was going to be as big and important as "Windows 3.1 to Windows 95". MacOS X, on the other hand, was being marketed as "The single most important thing since 1985".

Not too much happens between now and March 24th, 2000, but a couple of things do. Microsoft changed the name Whistler to Windows XP. Something like that, anyways. This brought many flames from mac users. MacOS X. Windows XP. Not much difference. Then Microsoft released pictures of Window's XP multiple users thing. Just one problem. They stole MacOS 9's Multiple User's rubber ducky icon. It was a direct rip from MacOS 9. This pissed off a lot of mac users.

Then on March 24th, 2000, just three days after my birthday I must add, Apple released MacOS X. This was not the fully featured OS we've come to know and love from Apple. It was awefully slow and lacked features, but it did show the public where Apple was heading with the OS. Apple made four small updates to it. CNet did a comparison of MacOS X and W2k and they preferred MacOS X.

In May, MacOS X is put on to every mac two months ahead of schedule, but it is not set as the default OS. This was probably done as a way to tell developers to hurry up.

On September 29th, 2001, Apple releases MacOS X 10.1 which is a lot faster and fully featured.

On October 23rd, 2001, Apple released the iPod, an arguably nice MP3 player. This serves two purposes. The primary is for Apple to expand its digital hub. The secondary purpose is to take a little bit of fire away from Windows XP. An interesting thing to note that the 5 gig firewire drive in the iPod costs $399, which is the same is what the iPod itself costs.

Windows XP, released on October 25th, 2001, emphasizes the same things that MacOS X does. music, movies, kids, the whole nine yards. What it does not emphasize is protected memory, which is very important since Microsoft OSes are usually not too stable. The price is a hell of a lot higher than MacOS X, and it includes a "feature" called product activation, which means you have to register with Microsoft to use it. Apple has no such equivilent.

So basically, Windows XP is Microsoft's direct response to MacOS X. Microsoft didn't want to fall too far behind in the competition, hence they made a product to compete with MacOS X. It will be interesting to see what the MacOS X vs. Windows XP articles say about the OSes as well as which one the reviewers preferred to use.

heh by Rai · 2001-10-25 06:13 · Score: 1

well, it allows backwoods imbred language like 'shitbird' so why are you complaining?

Pls mod up parent by Cryogenes · 2001-10-25 06:15 · Score: 1

That was the funniest post I saw on Slashdot in a long while. Unfortunately I just spent all my moderator points.

Enjoying my "Downgrade" Just Fine.... by Carter+Butts · 2001-10-25 06:19 · Score: 1

At this point, linux is a downgrade for end users. You lose features. You may say you don't like the features, you don't need the features or don't want the features but the bottom line is you lose them.

Oddly, I am not aware of any such "features" (other than the built-in spyware, which I can do without). I have heard this line often from Windows users, but so far don't see any functionality which I personally would gain by switching from Linux to Windows (which I no longer use). Given that such a move would cost massive quantities of cash (not to mention any ideological issues), it sounds like all cost and no gain from my point of view....

In any event, you're going to need a vastly more persuasive argument than that to persuade some of us. I don't make any claims for the typicality/atypicality of my experience, but my computing experience -- and productivity -- has improved significantly as the result of my move away from MS products.

But hey, if it floats your proverbial boat....

-Carter

Re:Enjoying my "Downgrade" Just Fine.... by jilles · 2001-10-25 08:24 · Score: 2

>Oddly, I am not aware of any such "features"

Well that is the problem of the linux community in general. They seam to be out of touch with reality. Right now linux gives me the experience the earlier versions of win95 (i.e. before Billy boy realized it was worth investing in the Internet). I mean come on, I like it as a server OS but as a desktop OS it is downright pathethic. Its cheap explorer rip offs, the ie 2.0 look alikes competing for the web browser market, the total lack of a omnipresent component model, the lack of clipboard functionality that actually works for most applications. I mean we could deny that these problems exist, convince users they really don't need such functionality but the rest of the world has had this functionality since windows 3.0 or even earlier if they were apple users.

Well to paraphrase a popular phrase by Ghandi
"first they deny you, then they fight you and then you win"

When it comes to usability linux is still in the denial phase, occasional even fighting the "a GUI is actually useful" notion. I must admit some KDE developers do have a grasp of reality and I admire their work. But the majority of the Unix community actually is incapable of looking beyond the command line. I perceive that as a weakness.

And yes, I had a few beers too many so don't be hard on me :-)

--

Jilles
Re:Enjoying my "Downgrade" Just Fine.... by sweepkick · 2001-10-25 11:16 · Score: 1

You're right, Linux is still weak on the GUI side of the house. The O/S community does not have the luxury or the resources to put millions of dollars into usability studies in order to improve upon them, as Microsoft does. Sadly, projects such as KDE, Gnome, etc end up mimicking the Windows UI... successfully or not. Then there's always the familiarity thing as well...

However, I have to take issue with your statement that the unix community cannot see past the command line and it's a weekness. I'm sorry, but for the majority of tasks that involve configuration, installation, and general system maintenance, you cannot beat a good shell. It's cumbersome and simply a PITRA to configure something as simple as an ethernet card in a series of windows. A good shell is what Windows is sorely lacking, and it's why it'll never be taken seriously as a server/workhorse platform (by people who actually know what they are doing, anyway).
Re:Enjoying my "Downgrade" Just Fine.... by skt · 2001-10-25 13:12 · Score: 1

I like it as a server OS but as a desktop OS it is downright pathethic.
You'll have to define your definition of a desktop. People do different things with their workstations. Say I'm a c programmer, is linux a pathetic OS for me to use on my desktop?
the ie 2.0 look alikes competing for the web browser market
right.. maybe you were not aware that mozilla surpassed IE6 at about version 0.9.3 in terms of usability and features.
I would agree with you that linux is still a few applications away from putting a dent into the corporate desktop market. If you take the browser situtation in linux a year ago, there were really no _good_ browers available. Now the OS has at least three. There are currently no office suites (word processor, spreadsheet, presentation software, etc) that can compete with M$ Office. In another year or so, I expect that two free office suites will be very usable. This is what linux-based operating systems really need right now for the corporate desktop market.
And as those are being developed, development of KDE3 continues. Because application development has slowed somewhat, I believe that the future actually looks very good for linux desktops. Especially when you consider the direction that microsoft is going.. the restriction only grow with every new software release, and there will be a breaking point for consumers. When M$ hits this, consumers will look elsewhere.
Re:Enjoying my "Downgrade" Just Fine.... by Thing+1 · 2001-10-25 18:11 · Score: 1

Well to paraphrase a popular phrase by Ghandi "first they deny you, then they fight you and then you win"
The actual quote (Feeling Lucky at Google with "ghandi first they") is here :
First, they ignore you.
Then they laugh at you.
Then they fight you.
Then you win.

Now they're fighting us.

--
I feel fantastic, and I'm still alive.

Umm....no by kindbud · 2001-10-25 06:19 · Score: 2

I am looking at an astonishing sight. I visited MSN.com with Netscape 4.7x on Solaris/SPARC. What I got, is difficult to believe. I get a clean, text-only page. The fonts are the browser default, not a CSS-tweaked GIANT font that makes me feel like I'm in kindergarten. The graphics are minimal. The site is far more useable than before. I even have the old-school grey background, not white. ;)

I also visited MSN.com using IE5.5/Win2K through a proxy that hides my User-Agent: header. In this case, I got the page you mentioned. So, no User-Agent -> browser upgrade. User-Agent indicating "foreign" platform -> text-only version. I confirmed this by specifying the Netscape/Solaris User-Agent on the Lynx command line (got the minimal graphics version).

Strangely enough, if I use Lynx (x86 Linux) directly, I get the browser-upgrade page.

All I seem to need, then, to get MSN the way I'd want it, is tofind a new proxy that can make IE pretend to be Netscape on Solaris, so I can escape the ActiveX/OLE/Javascript hell MSN has prepared for their captives. Oh rats, the rest of the site doesn't work this way... only the home page is available in a minimal version, it seems.

Of course, just like the workers at the CDC, I employ protective gear such as cookie and javascript filters when visiting hostile territory known to be infected. So don't worry. MSN failed to set me a cookie. I'll be just fine. :)

--
Edith Keeler Must Die

Windows for Warehouses.... by ackthpt · 2001-10-25 06:19 · Score: 1

Bottom line is, people won't pay for new features they don't need, especially when many of us have *finally* stabalized our current Windows version. I predict this will be another "Windows for Warehouses".

Sure, but keep in mind they're spending $250 Million to sell the public on this thing. That's almost $1 per citizen of the US. Think about how much lucre they've raised in selling something to the public that, after taxes, expenses, dividends, Bill's new house, etc, that they can actually afford $1 per person to try to convince them that the sun won't shine quite as well, the birds won't sing as well, and apple pie won't taste as well without XP on your computer (and you're really backward if you don't have a PC, yet, but there's hope and a vendor willing to set that right, assuming you're not some commie who doesn't believe in having lots of posessions and debt.)

The art of sales is convincing people they need something they really don't. Lucky me, my TV is off for a while so I don't have to see the commercials. (c=

--

A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar

Well duh, upgrade from 2k to XP PRO not home by cybrthng · 2001-10-25 06:21 · Score: 2

Doesn't take a scientist to figure that one out. Win2k was never a "home" os, and therefore you should upgrade to the "business" version of XP to get the same bang for your buck as you do with 2k.

IMHO, XP is worth it. Bootup speed, full sleep compatibility, better removeable device support, customizeable interface, remote desktop, remote support (like dell being able to login to fix there own crap instead of me waisting my time to fix it), windows update with more features, easier administration, better support with IPSec, built in PPEO driver, directx 8 support, same innards from home to pro now.

It is simply about time this product was released, xp is what 2k should have been.

Don't tell me it is expensive either, redhat 7.2 pro is 199.00, i can get the upgrade for an OS i already have for 99 bucks.

Untraceable Deletion by virg_mattes · 2001-10-25 06:21 · Score: 2

Actually, that process makes the data easier to recover, not harder. Since each pass pushes the bit toward zero, but not by the same amount (the closer it gets to zero, the less each additional zero moves it down), it's easy to extrapolate how many times you wrote zeroes (and what was there originally) based on the specific drive hardware. You're actually better off writing a one, then a zero, then another one, and so on, alternating on each pass. The best shredders (and the government standard for shredding files) is to write a 1, then a zero, then a second one and zero, then a third one and zero, then some other byte value that's a good mix (like 18 or 246) for a total of seven writes. Even that isn't good enough for top secret rated stuff. I had a colleague tell me about having to send a hard drive back for a warranty replacement from an Air Force base. He called the manufacturer and told them that he'd need to destroy the drive, but could send back the junked parts when he finished. They accepted that (not surprising for a company that does a lot of defense work) and he opened the drive, removed the platters, and used a steel grinder to scrape the substrate of off the surfaces of each one. Now that's data destruction.

Virg

We're running NT at work by Jeppe+Salvesen · 2001-10-25 06:23 · Score: 2

And we are really quit happy about it. It is relatively stable, and it runs the applications we need. Office 97, Exchange 4.0, MS Schedule something. Can anybody give me a compelling reason to upgrade to XP? W2K? We're probably about 180 ppl, including consultants.

As a matter of fact, the IT people are becoming increasingly interested in Linux. I think the combination of "free", "full built-in remote access" and "stable" appeals to them.

--

Stop the brainwash

Re:We're running NT at work by RelliK · 2001-10-25 07:56 · Score: 2

It's too bad most people don't understand this. Surely everyone must need the latest paperclip!

--
___
If you think big enough, you'll never have to do it.

Steve Ballmer quote by Ronnie+Coote · 2001-10-25 06:26 · Score: 1

Steve Ballmer was interviewed on BBC Radio 4 this morning - he said:

"With the world in quite a bit of turmoil, I think that Windows XP is the antidote we need"

Oh good, Microsoft is going to save the world now too.

--
Candygram for Mongo!

Re:Why? I like OS/2 by Myxorg · 2001-10-25 06:27 · Score: 1

A basic lack of driver support saves my critical data, and hides what I don't want the kids or wife to see (ie. pr0n, Rated M games, etc..)

So, It's a feature not a bug.

Re:Oh good, a slashdot article on the release of X by m_evanchik · 2001-10-25 06:27 · Score: 1

Notice the time between the comment post and the original article post: 13 minutes.

I suspect that if you analyzed the data, that most moderation is done on the earliest posts, either because people are viewing on "earliest posts first, or because there is just less comments to choose from early on in an article's life.

--

evanchik.net

Windows XP Launch in Los Angeles - Poorly attended by AKAJack · 2001-10-25 06:30 · Score: 1

I just returned from the WXP "launch" function at the Universal Amphitheatre. About half the seats were blocked off and unavailable (a small section of those was opened later); of the remaining seats in the lower half of the theatre about 70% were occupied. The lower half of the theatre is approximately one-third of the total amphitheater seating (because of the balcony). The entire theater holds 6.125. One-third of that is 2.042, and 70% of that is 1.430. We left at the intermission along with about 20% of the "crowd".

That Microsoft can barely attract 1.500 people in a market the size of Los Angeles to the launch of a major OS product may be a very real sign of how well XP is going to sell.

Yes, I have been to many of these launch parties of MS products over the years in order to show support for our MS representatives, but this one was aimed so low that it was barely tolerable.

More importantly (at least for me) by kaoshin · 2001-10-25 06:33 · Score: 1

This means that the companies who need to write drivers will finally get their "Official" copies of it so maybe we have something to tell all the meanies who keep calling and cussing tech support that we don't have tested drivers for it yet. Sure the Win2K drivers are supposed to work for XP pro and the Win98 Drivers are supposed to work for the home edition or whatever they call it, but I can't help but recall how everything was supposed to work the same on ME...

Unlocks the full power by kindbud · 2001-10-25 06:35 · Score: 5, Funny

...it unlocks the full power of the PC and enables them to enjoy the best of what the digital world has to offer.

Didn't they say the same thing about Win9x?

When will my PC's potential be fully unlocked?

--
Edith Keeler Must Die

Re:Unlocks the full power by m0nkyman · 2001-10-25 16:49 · Score: 2

Just wait. Some elite script kiddie will unlock it for you....

--
~ a low user id is no indication I have a clue what I'm talking about.

Re:Why? I like OS/2 by Havokmon · 2001-10-25 06:42 · Score: 1

Yeah, until I decide to use XP myself, then my wife will hear my incessant bitching..

--
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)

Re:The biggest question about XP by El+Prebso · 2001-10-25 06:44 · Score: 1

I thought the big question was "Does it play Doom ?"

--
I didn't say it was your fault. I said I was going to blame it on you.

�Todav�a esperamos en Espa�a! by adelayde · 2001-10-25 06:47 · Score: 1

Just thought I'd mention that on www.microsoft.es the counter is ready about 15 mins to go until the launch of Windows XP on 25th October 2001. It's now a quarter to nine in the evening - seems very peculiar that M$ would choose to launch XP here at 10 O'Clock at night, after the shops shut! Still Bill and Steve move in mysterious ways I guess!

Re:�Todav�a esperamos en Espa�a! by adelayde · 2001-10-25 07:02 · Score: 1

Sad bastard I am answering my own postings!

Anyway, the counter reached zero and ........ nothing happened! shucks!

Re:My First Impressions and other features by hardburn · 2001-10-25 06:47 · Score: 1

multiple simultaneous logins

How is this a help? Does WinXP support some sort of "virtual terminals" (only with a GUI)? Or can you log in through a diffrent system? I know Win2000 had a telnet server running on it, but the NT was never really designed for being multi-user.

integrated zip file support

This was in WinME. tar and tar+gz files worked, too.

integrated CD writing support

For the approximatly three CD-R/W drives on the planet that didn't come with CD burning software.

--
Not a typewriter

Notes on the webcast by kawika · 2001-10-25 06:53 · Score: 2, Informative

I tuned into the webcast for the NY launch event at 10:30am eastern time. Here's my quick summary.

It started with a gospel group singing America the Beautiful and then an appearance by Mayor Rudy. Bill Gates talks for a while about XP (fun, reliable, rich media, blah, blah), and "shuts down DOS for the last time" by typing "exit" at a C prompt. A voice says "Are you sure you want to to that, Bill?" in the style of 2001 A Space Odyssey. Then Bill introduces Jim Allchin who talks for while about XP too.

Then Regis Philbin comes in and they do a WWTBAM take-off. Regis does the obligatory millionaire jokes ("Sure this is worth your time, Bill?") and do a few lame questions and answers about XP. After this, Bill leaves the studio while Regis gets a lesson on the great new features of XP. The MS guy tries to do a voice command demo and three tries later it finally works. Regis is whining at him mercilessly. ("You see? This always happens to me with computers!")

Bill reappears on screen a bit later as he's visiting a record store and showing a kiosk at a music store that's built with XP. He scans a CD at the kiosk and it comes up with samples from the CD. Next they try to do a webcam setup and that screws up for a while (Regis: "See!") but finally they get a picture.

At this point I can't say I was paying much attention, I had the audio on but the picture wasn't worth watching.

Apple-ish? by CS_LoneWolf · 2001-10-25 06:58 · Score: 1

I hope Bill is paying Apple for all of the great ideas he stole from them such as the GUI, multiple login interface, moviemaker(imovie) and so on. Once again Apple is the innovation leader and Microsoft is the follower. Lame.

Beauty is only skin deep by Sux2BU · 2001-10-25 06:59 · Score: 1

When I first tried XP I really appeciated the new UI features. Finally MS makes Windows skinable. The new sounds kicked ass. Windows became a little less ugly. Unfortunately for XP, the UI enhancements are the only major enhancements over Windows 2K.

Sure there's other things in XP that make it better than 2K. It's a little less crash prone. There's more game support. There's more bundled apps (and you thought bundling IE was bad). But nothing but the UI really sicks out, or is significantly better than 2K.

Comparing it to 9X/ME, on the other hand, is a little different. You get all the advantages of switching to 2K, along with most of the disadvantages. Games support is a little better, but I suspect most serious gamers won't upgrade. There's application compatability problems, especially where there's a competing application built into XP. I would have to say despite the UI enhancements, the system is still much more complex than 9X/ME, so ease of use becomes an issue. Sure having a stable computer is great, but I suspect that most current users of 9X/ME would be disappointed because of the afore mentioned issues.

My conclusion is that if you're running 2K in a non-business environment it may be worth kicking out an extra C note if some of the features appeal to you. But for all those people running 9X/ME, I really don't see a draw to it, just as there wasn't really a draw for them to switch to NT/2K. And I suspect that most businesses that do upgrade will do so because it is forced down their throats, not because it is a "better OS."

As for me, I reverted back to 98SE after trying out XP. Still, my experience with XP wasn't all bad. After all, I did get a chance to grab all those new UI sound files. ^^

Re:My First Impressions and other features by g0del · 2001-10-25 07:03 · Score: 1

For the approximatly three CD-R/W drives on the planet that didn't come with CD burning software.

How about for all the CD-R/W drives that came with Easy CD Creator, which doesn't work with XP? When you try to run it, XP helpfully tells you it won't work, then directs you to a page with upgrades. There you can get the new version, which supports XP, for only $99.95. Sorry, no free upgrades just because their software stopped working.

G0del

So Microsoft thinks W3C can't handle XHTML? by air · 2001-10-25 07:06 · Score: 1

MS argues that it blocks browsers because they can't handle XHTML. I tried to validate their start-page with http://validator.w3.org, but MS seems to think W3C can't handle their XHTML either and blocks it. At least the error page doesn't seem to be valid XHTML. So much for "embracing standards".

Re:So Microsoft thinks W3C can't handle XHTML? by Junta · 2001-10-25 11:46 · Score: 2

Oh, they are all for standrads, *their* standards. Notice they carefully say the standards *we* follow. They are meaning not w3c standards, but MS IE "standards" We see the price we paid for "Free" IE, Internet "standards" owned by microsoft..

--
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.

It allows you to delete files from your hard drive by clustersnarf · 2001-10-25 07:11 · Score: 1

http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/ptech/10/25/xp.london .launch/index.html

"The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive."

As opposed to crashing and deleting things for you.

Re:WooHoo! Bill Gates - King of Pain by matrix29 · 2001-10-25 07:17 · Score: 1

Hey, it's not like he can stalk girlfriends and write creepy songs about them forever. STING should sing, "King Of Pain" for the Microsoft XP release. Give the masochists what they want I always say. http://www.geocities.com/bennies12/Sting.html

--
"Face it, a nation that maintains a 72% approval rating on George W. Bush is a nation with a very loose grip on reality.

download.com by Vespillo · 2001-10-25 07:37 · Score: 1

When did download.com become a billboard for XP?

--
The problem as I see it is that I have no personality of my own.

Re:download.com by CS_LoneWolf · 2001-10-25 08:37 · Score: 1

That ad has showed up on other sites too. It is plastered all over ZDNet also.
Re:download.com by Vespillo · 2001-10-26 10:51 · Score: 1

C|net owns ZDnet so this is not supprising

--
The problem as I see it is that I have no personality of my own.

Why ? by burgy · 2001-10-25 07:39 · Score: 1

Just a simple question : Why ? I think we have enough problems in the universe for now. So why adding M$ XP ? Resistance is NOT futile.

Our CIO says don't install (yet) by Cujo · 2001-10-25 07:40 · Score: 1

3. XP is for eXPloit Knowing the care microsoft gives to security, this meaning is close to become reality. 4. XP is for eXPlosion eXPlosion of Denial of Service (DoS) attacks as windows XP gives raw socket acces to the mass of home users. (read http://grc.com/dos/winxp.htm and http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/19332.html)

Our CIO just sent out an e-mail saying don't install XP. They're still looking at security issues, and may be for some while. Given MS's record of not really designing for security, I hope they take a very long look.

OTOH, no one told me I couldn't install OS X.

--

Helium balloons want to be free.

FUD FUD FUD (moderate -1 Nonconformist Thinking) by jazmataz23 · 2001-10-25 07:41 · Score: 1

1. XP is for eXPensive Never in the history of the PC has the part of the operating system been so pricey.

I'll give ya that one and not even haggle about ROI or TCO, a major reason why *FOR ME* linux is not preferred. OUt of pocket, it's a lot more expensive to have a legal Windows XP system than to have a legal, even storebought, Linux system. I think that you get a good deal of quality for your money. You think that's bloat. We aren't going to see eye to eye on it, so I concede. WinXP is packaged in a more expensive box on the store shelf.

2. XP is for eXPires Microsoft has invented the software that eXPires as the customer can only install the software a certain number of times. If you have a virus, need to upgrade your hard drive, want to clean up your HD, add another component, change PC or any other reason to install, your software gets closed to death.

That's just bogus and you probably know it yourself. You have to activate, sure. In practice, changing one or two items isn't enough to upset the hash that matches the activation code recieved from Microsoft. I'm not saying this isn't a pain in the ass; it's a huge pain in the ass. But it's neither as troublesome nor permanent as you paint it. At least you didn't get into the Xcessive Paranoia that Microsoft is compiling a hardware database. It's a HASH people. One way trip. Details go in, but they don't come out.

3. XP is for eXPloit Knowing the care microsoft gives to security, this meaning is close to become reality.

It's also very easy to root a lot of linux boxes that are still out there, exactly the same as the were from their stock install. Security is one of the user's responsibilities, and can't be laid solely at the feet of the provider. Anyother user responsbility is back up & maintainence, but you wouldn't blame the operating system when they lose work due to hardware catastrophe which they should have backed up. Not to say that this isn't a major part of designing an operating system, but security issues are prevalent in the Linux world as well, except that the arcane rituals required to secure a linux workstation are, to say the least, not user-friendly.

Linux has in fact had security holes go unnoticed for months and even years before. What's good about linux is the fact that patches are issued quite quickly, and due to the competition from linux in this regard, Microsoft has gotten a lot more agile in this regard.

4. XP is for eXPlosion eXPlosion of Denial of Service (DoS) attacks as windows XP gives raw socket acces to the mass of home users. (read >http://grc.com/dos/winxp.htm and http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/19332.html

See, this is one of the hallmarks of FUD. You get one guy making a lot of noise about Feature Q. He puts up his own site and then he issues a bunch of press releases about how Feature Q is responsible for homelessness, teenage pregnancy and a staggering 34% increase in segfault behavior. Then the FUDmeister cites this guy's blathering and a couple sites that actually published his press release as independent sources that Feature Q must be stopped. I don't know what the adoption of Raw Sockets means to the world. I can see Steve's point that there's not a whole lot of use for it to the everyday user. I also don't see any other "security experts" stepping forward to back up his claims. As far as I can tell, and I may be wrong, Steve Gibson's been hit by an acorn and is running around saying the sky is falling.

5. XP is for eXPected It took 10 years to microsoft to deliver a operating system that doesn't crash or need a reboot multiple times a day. At last!

Uh...I've been using NT for quite a while now, since 4.0 service pack 1, and that gets back to early 98 I think. NT's been around a lot longer than that; it hasn't been a peak experience all the time. Heck it hasn't even been a desirable platform all the time, but a stable Win32 platform has been around a long time. Pretty close to as long as GNU/Linux has been popular, as it came out of the CLI-shackled darkness of a university project to the GUI-driven juggernaut you love.

6. XP is for linuXPreferred For all the above reasons.

Eh, here's my experience. Linux is needy. You can get it running, stable, and optimized only if you take the enormous amount of time it takes to figure out the drivers you need to compile into your kernel, the parameters you need to set, get you boot sequence all in the right order, write (and debug) scripts and even then it never really worked for me. Maybe I'm not a genius like EEEEVERYONE else here at slashdot. But I spent hours over months reading HOWTOs and FAQs and documentation and even the GD source code, and I couldn't get a simple 486/66 linux firewall and router to get up, start masquerading, and STAY UP consistently, even with 64MB of RAM. Sure the OS didn't crash, but I had to reset the network every couple hours to get peak performance. It was just not my cup of tea. I prefer things to work, so I can get on with the important things in life. Like it's easy for the girlfriend set up her laptop and check email, like I spend my time developing a presentation to make to a prospective client, and like I can chat online with family overseas. If banging around trying to make what may well be a superior system simply run is your cup of tea, by all means be my guest. It's like getting all greasy working on your muscle car all day; and yes, I did that in my stint as a linux-counter stat. I agree that it's a lot of fun to actually replace that part with a custom-tuned model and have it start up and watch it purr. But at some juncture the point of the exercise is to get in and go for a spin through the countryside, and a lot of the linux zealots act like that never comes up. So the booth babe of your dreams sidles up and asks you to use your computer to check her email, and there you are, dirty jeans, greasy mitts, and the interior of the car is for shit; metal springs poking up out of the seats, and only one speaker on the AM Stereo works. Well, I'm not saying I'm gonna roll up in the shiny new Microsoft Luna and sweep her away but I do know my shit works, and my less-than-130 IQ friends are impressed when I let them drive it.

jaz

--
Death to Argument by Slogan!! (This post twice-encrypted with ROT-13. Replies not using same will be ignored)

Re:Oh good, a slashdot article on the release of X by mother_superius · 2001-10-25 07:42 · Score: 1

no, no, no. You've got it wrong. It will be inciteful.

And nobody needs it! by vs-Tsoonamy · 2001-10-25 08:04 · Score: 1

Well... do I really need it? I'm quite happy with my windows 98 (NOT the second edition) and my linux box... I got drivers for every piece of hardware, and I really don't want to get in those troubles with the drivers for e.g. my NoName TV-Card which friends using Win2K and similar Hardware had... No thanks, let's wait a year.. or two... or some decades.. :-)

--
Tend to post comments only when drunk

Does Linux really have this? by AlpineR · 2001-10-25 08:21 · Score: 2

Pardon me if this is a dumb question, but do the common Linux distributions support this feature? I know that I can switch to a different console with CTRL-ALT-F6, but can I have multiple users' desktops running simultaneously?

AlpineR

Re:Does Linux really have this? by be-fan · 2001-10-25 14:15 · Score: 2

You have to fiddle around a little bit with the X setup (changing the display variable from 0 to 1), but in general you just have to log in as a different user and startx from the bash prompt.

--
A deep unwavering belief is a sure sign you're missing something...

Original Aqua demo by TheInternet · 2001-10-25 08:22 · Score: 1

Then on September 13th, 2000, Apple released MacOS X public beta.

Actually, the more significant event was probably when Apple demoed Mac OS X for the first time at the January 2000 Macworld Expo. That's when everyone did the "whoa" when they saw Aqua for the first time.

- Scott

--
Scott Stevenson
Tree House Ideas

Re: My First Impressions and other features by SteveX · 2001-10-25 08:22 · Score: 2

Multiple simultaneous logins works really well in a house type environment where you've got a few people sharing the computer.. Mom's Solitaire that she was playing when she went off to do something else stays open while someone else uses the computer for a few hours.. when Mom switches back to her desktop, her stuff is still there.

Sure, someone else could have used the same desktop and left the game running, but then they have Mom's bookmarks and stuff, not their own. Better to have the fast user switching.

And switching desktops is one keystroke.. Windows-L takes you to the list of users.

Win2000 for $110-$150 on eBay by natersoz · 2001-10-25 08:26 · Score: 1

If you really need an MSFT OS, you can still obtain Win2K on eBay for a little over $100 US.

Re:FUD FUD FUD (moderate parent -1 braindead) by ILikeRed · 2001-10-25 08:34 · Score: 1

jazmataz23 writes:
That's just bogus and you probably know it yourself. You have to activate, sure. In practice, changing one or two items isn't enough to upset the hash that matches the activation code recieved from Microsoft. I'm not saying this isn't a pain in the ass; it's a huge pain in the ass. But it's neither as troublesome nor permanent as you paint it.

What happens when Microsoft wants you to upgrade, and they decide to no longer support this OS? Do you think they will be kind enough to allow me to call them for an Auth code after replacing a failed drive? Sounds like your really just renting the OS to me....

--
I have come to a conclusion that one useless man is a shame, two is a law firm, and three or more is a congress -J Adams

XP allows users to delete data from their HD by motox · 2001-10-25 08:40 · Score: 1

(CNN) -- Microsoft has launched its new Windows XP operating system.

The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive.

http://www.cnn.com/2001/TECH/ptech/10/25/xp.lond on .launch/index.html

Re:XP allows users to delete data from their HD by CS_LoneWolf · 2001-10-25 15:02 · Score: 1

Holy shit! You can delete data now? What a breakthrough! Kidding. Another quote from the article. "A feature called Compatability Mode fools older programs into thinking they are working with Windows 95, 98, ME or 2000 so they don't choke with XP." This must be a new feature also... ha

XP isnt for eXPires. by Patrick+Cable+II · 2001-10-25 08:41 · Score: 1

2. XP is for eXPires
Microsoft has invented the software that eXPires as the customer can only install the software a certain number of times. If you have a virus, need to upgrade your hard drive, want to clean up your HD, add another component, change PC or any other reason to install, your software gets closed to death.

Get your facts right. Microsoft has stated that they dont care how many times you install XP. When you activate it, a *hash* based on the hardware on your system is sent to a clearinghouse. If most of the hash matches, your computer becomes activated.
-
Patrick

Re:XP isnt for eXPires. by Mandelbrute · 2001-10-25 14:06 · Score: 1

Get your facts right. Microsoft has stated that they dont care how many times you install XP. When you activate it, a *hash* based on the hardware on your system is sent to a clearinghouse. If most of the hash matches, your computer becomes activated.
Hmm. I managed to use Win95 on three boxes (each sharing bits, but the last original part was retired when I needed a small drive to boot another box) since I obtained the thing, and had good hardwared support reasons not to use 98. If XP was around over that period of time, I probably would have had to obtain more than three licences (for the three different motherboards) due to the various bits and pieces that were added over time (at least six network cards for a start (testing) - something that is bound to eat licences).
I think I must be the sort of person that is "cheating the system" by moving my drives over to a new board, and not buying a whole new PC and a new M$ OS. It's just like those people the banks say are "cheating the system" by paying off their credit cards before the intrest kicks in.
Eventually ther troublesome SCSI hardware was replaced and I upgraded to Win2k on the win drive, but I can see that a move to XP will encourage replacement with bundled systems instead of the progressive upgrading that I've been doing.
The days of saying "throw in a US$15 stick of RAM with that mouse" will disappear if it is going to shorten the life of your licence. Also the practice of lending a friend a network card for a night of gaming will be more likely to do the same.
If you think windows is easy to use, try making a bootable floppy disk under NT, with system files on it - then try installing any MS OS that doesn't come on a genuinely bootable CD without it (because you won't be able to make the boot floppy - "/s" will not work in format). For this exercise you are not allowed to use anything other than an NT 4 machine, and a box with a bare drive. Have fun!

Re:Oh good, a slashdot article on the release of X by ArtDent · 2001-10-25 08:45 · Score: 2

I noticed that line, too. I found it *quite* insightful.

Especially considering that, just two weeks ago, when I tried to delete a large directory tree on Windows 2000, the progress meter stopped moving at about 2/3 of the way through, the time estimate started oscillating wildly (between 40 seconds and 175 minutes remaining), and instances of Internet Explorer started freezing.

Eventually, I killed the process, and the OS survived the experience just fine (no reboot required). But, come on...deleting files? Yeah, so I was deleting LOTS of files, but it's still a really simple operation. No reason to go wonky like that. And who knows...maybe if I had left it going a little longer, the system would have gone south...

So, maybe the author of the article knew more than we give him credit for.

In case you didn't know... by Dave_bsr · 2001-10-25 09:01 · Score: 1

you could do that with Win98...I've gone back to earlier registries several times with '98...you just have to know how to do it. In XP it seems (from what others have said) to present itself to you nicely...although if your OS craps out you probably will need tech help anyways...and good tech help should know about the '98 go back.
Although, IMHO, a nice clean wipe of Win98 is really the only way to go for a power user...every 6 months baby, yeah. Just partition your stuff so you have a nice Win98 partition, a nice Linux partition, and a nice p0rn/mp3s/movies/docs/personal stuff partition.

--

Who is this Anonymous Coward character, how does he post so much, and why is he always such a whore?

Re:THE EMPIRE STRIKES BACK by Melantha_Bacchae · 2001-10-25 09:23 · Score: 1

Right thought, wrong movie. Try "Mothra 3: King Ghidora Attacks".

It seems that King Ghidora is pissed that he had to be a good guy (well monster) in "Godzilla, Mothra, King Ghidora: Dai Kaiju Soukougeki". So he's reverted to his Great Devil/King of Terror type from "Mothra 3", and is currently throwing quite a hissy fit, primarily over the eastern coast of the US. Which explains the problem we've been having with large objects falling (and threatening to fall) from the sky. (He's the kaiju deity of mass extinction asteroid impacts, meteor storms, and wind storms -- and Microsoft's patron deity.) If you look at KG's first attack on Tokyo's buildings, you'd notice the similarity to the events of 9/11, right down to King Ghidora flying into the twin towers and a guy with a cell phone talking while dodging the falling debris. Note also the similarity between a call in viewer on CNN describing the terrorists as "having no heart", and Belabera telling Lola that she "had her heart stolen" by King Ghidora.

Now, with terrorists running rampant and Windows XP's release making it seem like evil has triumphed over the computing world, it is like King Ghidora has resurrected after Mothra sacrificed herself to destroy him. He darkens the skies unchallenged.

But that isn't the end. Fujisan laughs at Ghidora's arrogance, and reveals a petrified cocoon, like an egg, on his slopes. The cocoon/egg explodes, and Mothra is reborn as the Armored Warrior, 130 million years of evolution making her even more powerful than Ghidora can ever imagine. She gives a mighty roar, and launches into the sky to destroy the King of Terror forever.

Where is Mothra? Look for her among the heroes of 9/11, the Russian soldiers who rescued the American soldiers, in the IRA laying down their weapons, in the spirit of peace and cooperation that has so prevailed among so many former enemies since 9/11. Look for her in her beloved Apple and OS X, and in the open source movement where generousity is the rule, not greed.

In the end, peace, life, and the power of the heart always triumph. Greed, terror, and hate, cruelty and evil of every stripe just aren't sustainable.

Let Microsoft have their billion dollar party. Thanks to Mothra and her Apple, OS X is here, and powerful enough to wipe XP out of the sky.

"Lola, kindness is not enough, look for the reason of hatred and anger. When you find and understand that, love becomes the strongest power; stronger than courage or wisdom."
Belabera, "Mothra 3: King Ghidora Attacks"

First time I am trying to... by TV-SET · 2001-10-25 09:24 · Score: 1

...be funny actually... :)

1. CNN article titled "Windows XP hits the streets" pops up "Shit hits the fan" in my head.

2. Pictures of Bill Gates in both (CNN and BBC) articles are funny :)

3. From CNN: "The system promises fewer computer crashes and will allow users to delete data from their hard drive." That sounds interesting. I guess it's time for Windows users to clean up some disk space after 6 years since Win95.

4. Gates says (from CNN again): "Today is a great day for PC users and a great day for the PC industry," said Gates. "With the launch of Windows XP, we are entering an exciting new era of personal computing."

The era of Open Source and Free Software I presume.

"This powerful new version of Windows offers so much to customers --"

...that they are not sure if they want it all.

"...it unlocks the full power of the PC and enables them to enjoy the best of what the digital world has to offer."

So, they actually decided to switch from MS products? :)

"New York City is the perfect place to announce the worldwide availability of Windows XP," he said.

Not to offend anyone, but the guy is not without a sense of humor. Black humor, but humor.

5. In general, both articles (especially quotes) are a fun to read if you think for a moment that MS is sure that XP will kill Windows and promote OSS/FS.

--
Leonid Mamtchenkov ...i don't need your civil war...

Things to come... by LagDemon · 2001-10-25 09:26 · Score: 1

"...and Microsoft officials say they're convinced new computers will walk out of the shops..."

Is this a subtle reference to their future plans?

--

Beware of he who would deny you access to information, for in his heart he dreams himself your master.

Re:DIE FAGS DIE by Alan+Partridge · 2001-10-25 09:43 · Score: 1

I'm kind of a homo-sceptic

--
That was classic intercourse!

don't lose your uptime by posmon · 2001-10-25 09:51 · Score: 1

what the fuck? ms god rid of the need for those reboots back in *win2000*

--

update comments set karma=-1, reason='offtopic' where sid=26315

Re:Fisher-Price designed their GUI by Scooter · 2001-10-25 09:54 · Score: 1

"My first OS" :)

A history lesson... by Dave_bsr · 2001-10-25 10:09 · Score: 1

Ok, sherman, set the time machine to 97. We're going back to the pre-launch days of windows 98 today. Now, I'm a young guy, I was MS-DOS and Norton Commander for years...up until I bought my own win98 system (athlon 500, still have to smile). I don't remember the win98 release, I just remember a bunch of idiots running to get on the bandwagon. you remember that? Remember the crouds? I hope you do. I did, and i was...14 then? yeah. i know it makes me young.
Point is: MS hyped it up..internet, the killer app was a browser, email integration, yadda yadda yadda...but guess what? people bought the idea, and the product. Win98 was revolutionary. It was buggy, it crashed, yes...but it was set up as being great and the latest thing and everything. And people bought it.
Flash back to the present day. Read the news. People aren't thrilled. I believe it was The Reg that talkd about IT people who weren't thrilled with MS's subscriptions, activations, and too few new features (over Win2K) to upgrade...they were happy and the cost was too high.
But it was ZDNet that talked about the IT guys looking at Linux as an alternative for new pc's and servers. It just isn't worth it for them. Linux still has a place, and WinXP isn't a Linux-killer, by any means. Free and stable and the nerd-appeal will never go away.
This is just another MS release. It is over-hyped. It will most likely have its own bugs, problems, and complaints. People already can guess what they might be... security and compatibility issues perhaps? Just wait...

--

Who is this Anonymous Coward character, how does he post so much, and why is he always such a whore?

Stability??? by sunbane · 2001-10-25 10:14 · Score: 1

Well, I was able to kill my Windows XP quite well by installing Roxio CD Creator... afterwords wouldn't boot. So I boot into safe mode and guess what - though you can have safe mode with networking even, "The Install/Uninstall Utility is not available in Safe Mode". So what is the #!(@*#@ point???? (I was eventually able to recover but it took me two hours of searching and then unplugging devices instead of the 10 minutes it should have!) I guess this isn't uSoft's fault that the Roxio bit kills it, but you'd think you should be able to uninstall in safe mode no?

Reasons to Upgrade by Coppit · 2001-10-25 10:14 · Score: 1

Here are my impressions:

Cleartype on laptops is nice. (Not enabled by default though.) I actually prefer using my laptop screen, as it's easier on the eyes.
Suspend is faster, as is booting
Multiple users can run apps at the same time. (But for some reason you can't use offline folders with this feature.)
More stable
Built-in NAT support. (Which means you can have your VMWare guest talk through the XP machine to the outside network.)
DHCP fails over to static IP
Recently used apps listed in start menu

So I'd say you get some really nice features if you're a laptop user. I can unplug my machine at work (DHCP) and plug it in at home (static IP), and in a minute the OS figures out what happened. And my VMWare guest keeps on working just fine as well. (Too bad VMWare doesn't support suspending of the host machine...)

If you're a gamer or non-laptop user with Windows experience, the other features are mostly eye candy. However, if you're installing Windows for your grandma, you might consider XP. At first I thought the organization of the control panel was silly, but now I like the way tasks are listed separately from icons. If you think about it, most of the things in control panel should be task-oriented, not feature-oriented.

Re:Reasons to Upgrade by demon · 2001-10-25 12:17 · Score: 1

Actually, on my Linux box, VMware is quite OK with being suspended - as long as it's not running fullscreen at the time, it doesn't have a problem.

--

Sam: "That was needlessly cryptic."
Max: "I'd be peeing my pants if I wore any!"

Pricing by labnet · 2001-10-25 10:25 · Score: 1

In Australia (divide by 2 for $US)
XP Profesional New $1129 (Upgrade $639)
XP Standard $929 (Upgrade $465)
W2K Prof $629
Win ME $345

No thanks Bill....

--
46137

Re:Pricing by lsdino · 2001-10-25 15:48 · Score: 1

I don't know where you're buying from, but www.estore.com.au lists the prices at:

XP Professional New $579 (Upgrade $405)
XP Home Edition (not standard) $405 (Upgrade $208)

You gotta find a new retailer...

Windows XP is for everyone by xX_sticky_Xx · 2001-10-25 10:43 · Score: 1

Windows XP is for everyone, naked outcast and cheater included (?!)
56k | 100k | 300k

So says the little blurb on my media bar (just upgraded to IE6.0)

Is M$ finally giving in to pirates?

--

---

I didn't want to leave this space blank.

Actually by johns713 · 2001-10-25 11:00 · Score: 1

I find XP does not really have a BSOD. If it does it is tough to see it. All my machine does is lock up and refuses to do anything else. Oh well, there is always the power cord.

Fisher-Price OS by inkswamp · 2001-10-25 11:24 · Score: 1

Anyone else see XP's interface and think MS got help from Fisher-Price designing it. It looks like it's made out of big, primary-colored plastic. Are they concerned someone might poke their eye out with it or something?

--
--Rick "If it isn't broken, take it apart and find out why."

Re:Fisher-Price OS by CS_LoneWolf · 2001-10-25 14:51 · Score: 1

No kidding, it looks rediculous. Thanks god you can revert most of it back to "Classic". Oh that reminds me, have I mentioned yet how much it is like Mac OS X?

two words by ahde · 2001-10-25 11:57 · Score: 1

default theme

Re:XP is expensive by cybrthng · 2001-10-25 11:58 · Score: 1

Its not my fault you live in canada. And yes, i you signed up for announcements or had half a brain you could get XP pro upgrade for 99 bucks.

Not my fault you get ripped off and have to curse because thats all you can do!

Win2k == $$$; WinXP == no privacy by yerricde · 2001-10-25 12:21 · Score: 1

what the fuck? ms god rid of the need for those reboots back in *win2000*

Microsoft never got rid of the reboots in any operating system that 1. is marketed to home users and 2. respects users' privacy. Many of us:

aren't willing to spend $300 (retail price of win2k) on an operating system,
aren't willing to spend $1000 (retail price of a box powerful enough to run WinXP) on a new computer,
do not want all our personal information to be belong to Microsoft, or
frequently use apps that use libraries (e.g. Cygwin) that run fine under Win2k and Win98/ME but not WinXP.

--
Will I retire or break 10K?

Re:Win2k == $$$; WinXP == no privacy by posmon · 2001-10-25 21:31 · Score: 1

aren't willing to spend $300 (retail price of win2k) on an operating system,
you don't want to spend that then don't. let's make it quite clear that nobody's forcing you.

aren't willing to spend $1000 (retail price of a box powerful enough to run WinXP) on a new computer
nobody is forcing you to upgrade either. never mind that a computer bought during the last year should be fine, as would a new one bought from the ~$700 price bracket.

do not want all our personal information to be belong to Microsoft
look at the paranoid man, mummy!

frequently use apps that use libraries (e.g. Cygwin) that run fine under Win2k and Win98/ME but not WinXP
whenever you upgrade just about anything you have to accept that there will be some things that don't work anymore. backward compatibility is nice, but look at the crippling effect it had on win95. if there's enough demand for it then i'm sure an xp compatible version will be released. or why don't you just stick with linux?

--
update comments set karma=-1, reason='offtopic' where sid=26315

RIAA and Nintendo: "Fair use == piracy" by yerricde · 2001-10-25 12:25 · Score: 1

How can they look for fair use

They'll look for what turns out to be fair use and just ass-u-me it's piracy. Nintendo follows the same policy, assuming that even programs that you yourself wrote for NES or GBA hardware violate Nintendo's copyright.

--
Will I retire or break 10K?

What about .nz? by kimihia · 2001-10-25 12:56 · Score: 1

I went to the launch in Auckland, New Zealand. Because of our location we were probably the first in the world to have it launched here (we did have it released here first, see earlier articles).

Here's a link to my post on a mailing list explaining what I saw, as well as the application crash at the end of the demonstration. Worth checking out.

If that link doesn't work ... um, well I can't find any other archives of it sorry.

Re:Why? I like OS/2 by Binary+Gibbon · 2001-10-25 12:56 · Score: 1

Why would you choose FAT32 over NTFS? What's the advantage?

XP BSODs still happen by Michael+Snoswell · 2001-10-25 13:58 · Score: 2, Informative

On my stock standard Gateway p3/600 XP has BSODed a few times, always in the nVidia drivers supplied by Microsoft. I tried the latest detonator drivers that are mean to be faster by they were much more unstable. I'm using an ELSA GeForce2 GTS card.

The crash usually comes when changing graphics modes to run older programs, like a little kids program for my daughter that insists on 256 colour mode (which XP can't do unless in compatibility mode!).

The BSOD looks a bit different (new font used) but still dumps out to disk and when you reboot it wants to send a trouble report to MS.

Also when changing graphics modes between users it got confused and refused to rewrite the background when windows were closed or moved around. I have not allowed my machine to connect to the Net so maybe there are fixes for these probs but I will download the service packs on another machine and copy over the Net. Call me paranoid but I'm not going to let my XP box connect directly as I just don't know what it'll be doing in it's "automatic updates" process.

I did an upgrade from Win2k so maybe that's the prob but I dont want to scrub my drive.

Also runing a really old version of Lemmings (what a great game, brings a tear to my eye to watch my kids getting excited about a game I played on an Amiga 15+ yrs ago!) has sound but no music (midi synth) on my SBLive! card.

Two steps forward and stumbling back...

[sigh]

--
pithy comment

why by cabbey · 2001-10-25 14:42 · Score: 2

I know this affects a fair number of users but for the life of me I just don't know why ;)

The ones it affects are the support staffs of the industry, the reason is that it makes their lives a living hell.

Re:windowsupdate by CS_LoneWolf · 2001-10-25 14:56 · Score: 1

I have noticed a critical update notification quite a bit recently. The only thing it shows on my list are the browser updates. Like I really want to destroy my stable IE 5.0 SP2 with IE 5.5 or IE 6.

Re: Stabiliry by ahaning · 2001-10-25 15:08 · Score: 1

there's really no reason NOT to expect it to be just as good.

Apparently, you're underestimating the capabilities of users to stress test the stability of any system. Especially when they are able to install goofy spyware.

--
Withdrawal before climax is very ineffective and those who try this are usually called "parents."

Re:What does XP stand for? Emoticon. by anfloga · 2001-10-25 16:03 · Score: 1

This is the first time on Slashdot I wish something could be marked Score: 6 -- Funny.

Erik Hill

*I* BSOD'd one of M$'s demo machines today by Reziac · 2001-10-25 16:51 · Score: 1

...at the XP "Event". I asked about the Restore function (why doesn't it have an item-specific rollback in addition to the by-date rollback? If
I've installed a bunch of stuff, I don't want to have to reinstall everything added *since* the offending app -- after all you don't always find out which app is the culprit right away). For reasons that escape me, on failing to find my requested configurability, the demo attendant tried to roll it back to a date before XP was installed... instant BSOD!! which left the system believing the date was Oct.4th, when it finally came back up.

This is why I am known far and wide as "the beta-tester who can break *anything*" :)

--
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?

money! by sewagemaster · 2001-10-25 16:55 · Score: 1

....guess i wont be paying off my whore now that i'm going to spend it on a new copy of XP! wooooooooooooohooo!! :)

there goes my $400! pleasure comes and goes quickly doesnt it!

--
my blog

The answer is NO. by Dwonis · 2001-10-25 17:57 · Score: 2

Can somebody please tell me what XP is like? With all the tyrannical crap that goes into XP, I've finally decided never to buy it, or any later version (unless MS suddenly reforms,helll freezes over, etc). I'm just sick and tired of developers telling me that I, the user, am incompetent and not worthy of being in control of my own equipment. XP is the final slap in the face to this effect.

Re:The answer is NO. by radja · 2001-10-25 20:24 · Score: 2

xp is decent. if you're on 95/98/me, upgrading to xp is probably worth it, if only for stability. if you're running w2k, and you're happy with it, don't expect xp to make much of a difference. bootup time of xp is good, although I've had a little trouble with the bootloader (one of the reasons I went back to w2k). the FisherPrice/Luna shell.. well.. you either love it or you hate it. Fortunately it's easily turned off. So is the new layout of the start menu. My conclusion is: if you're running 95/98/me, upgrading to xp is probably a good idea if your hardware is new enough. I don't have much experience with NT4, but hardware support in xp is better. If you're running w2k, only upgrade to xp if you have problems with it.

//rdj

--

No one can understand the truth until he drinks of coffee's frothy goodness.
--Sheikh Abd-Al-Kadir, 1587

BEWARE OF UPGRADE!!! by Billly+Gates · 2001-10-25 19:35 · Score: 2

Well I am required to sell WindowsXP and other win32 based applications and operating systems to customers so buying XP was a no brainer. (I built my own system so I have no legal copy of Windows)

The XP version of Windows is mediocre at best. THE gui is just awefull and dumbed down. You can disable some of the features after searching for several minutes for all the options. All the NT4 administrative tools have been removed and replaced by a hidden mmc console. Yuck. Who would want this? The defualt colors creep me out. They kind of remind me of the nightmarish Stone Temple pilots video with the childrens teletubbies in strange colors in a twisted nightmare. (You all know the one I mean).

My games slowed down to a halt and I believe its a driver issue. My geforece2 mx200 card( very popular) is WHQL 2.0 certified by Microsoft for WindowsXp but barely runs as fast as my old non WHQL certified vodoo3 1000 on XP. ?? What they hell are the technicians in the WIndows hardware quality labs smoking or actually doing there anyway? This card runs in like %50 of all conputers sold. ?? I bought XP for games and it looks like for now I am still out of luck. Sorry but UT really sucked when redhat 7.1 was installed.

Now its looks like my old non certified vodoo 3 card is going back on my sytem because the drivers for XP are alot better for it. I can't go beyond 1027 x 768 and see text clearly and crisply with the the geforce2 mx200 (yes, the refresh rate is set properly). I am sure i gave those windows haters reading this a good laugh. I should of stayed with redhat and ignored my boss. I have learned my lesson. Take my warning to not buy it and make your employer buy it for you if you really need it. I actually miss NT4 sadly enough. The gui for XP is so unbearable. Even in classic mode, the icons look like something out of Mandrake 7.2 and a crayola crayon commercial. This also includes IE. It looks alot like MSN explorer now.

--
http://saveie6.com/

so easily brainwashed by maxpublic · 2001-10-25 20:49 · Score: 1

What I find amazing about scrolling through discussions like this is just how easily Microsoft brainwashed a great many people into thinking that the activation code scheme is okay. I mean hell, MS doesn't need to defend itself as so many drooling zombies will gladly spend an inordinate amount of time justifying the necessity of the activation code. They've bought into the argument lock, stock, and barrel, no doubt surrendering the use of their higher brain functions in the process.

The entire idea of the activation code is so fundamentally anti-consumer-rights I can't even begin to find the tiniest bit of the aforementioned justifications plausible. If I were to buy WinXP, I'd expect:

a) to be able to install it without calling the company for a magic number, since *I've never had to do this for any other piece of software I've ever owned over the last 20 years*;

b) that I damned well have the right to put it on all of my home machines without the company having a fit; and

c) that if I change out my hardware, especially if I'm doing testing configs for clients, I don't have to have the okay of the company to use a piece of software *that I goddamn well bought and own*.

Microsoft has replaced the idea of software ownership with software leasing; now they intend to replace this with the idea of software rental only with Microsoft approval, to be renewed under MS terms.

The weirdness is that *people accept this as okay and normal, even though in the PC OS biz it's never, ever been done this way before*. Almost as if they said "hey, the Great Bill has handed down the mandate, all hail the Great Bill".

Lord, why doesn't MS declare itself a religion a la Scientology? It seems just as effective at gaining converts who'll happily swallow any bullshit that's fed to them.

Max

--
My god carries a hammer. Your god died nailed to a tree. Any questions?

Re:What does XP stand for? Emoticon. by fredrik70 · 2001-10-25 23:44 · Score: 1

>Today is a good day to live in Europe.

Unless you live in London.. if there anything going to happen in Europe it gonna be london....
Bit worrying sometimes..

--
if (!signature) { throw std::runtime_error("No sig!"); }

Re:Down the road? by Junta · 2001-10-25 23:55 · Score: 2

They'll stop sending activation codes and tell you to buy their latest software, of course... We *all* love MS..

--
XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.

Re:Why? I like OS/2 by Havokmon · 2001-10-26 00:18 · Score: 1

DOS. If anything gets screwed up it's easier to find a DOS (or command prompt) disk that support fat32 than it is to find one that supports NTFS.
For example.. My floppy drive is dead. I can only boot from CDROM. Ever tried to make a bootable CDROM, without a floppy drive? You have to already have the bootcat.bin file created to do it. Fortunately, I have a Compaq rescue CD, which allows me to boot to a Win98 command prompt.

What do I need it for? 3c5x9cfg.exe only runs in DOS, and I hate PnP. And really, that's about it.
But I feel better knowing I can easily access the partition if I need to.

Yes, you can boot Win2k off the CD, and into command line mode, but you STILL have to login as administrator...

I don't know what happens if you don't have the admin password or those files are screwed up...

Lastly, like I said earlier, XP doesn't appear to mount NTFS partitions when installed as Fat32. I don't know if the NTFS driver is loaded or not, but it's convienant, because my Win2k partition is safe from my kids :)
Same goes for my Fat32 paritions on my ATA-66 controller that XP doesn't support. No driver, no access.

I have a BootMagic password for my Win2k partition.. If my kids can figure out how to crack the BootMagic password, they're accessing that data the hard way :P

--
"I can't give you a brain, so I'll give you a diploma" - The Great Oz (blatently stolen sig)

less than one day later- EIGHT UPDDATES by Elminst · 2001-10-26 01:02 · Score: 1

So just for the heck of it i surf this new XP build over to the windows update page.

And it tells me there are EIGHT updates, including a Critical update for security fixes that have been known since august.

So I geuss we're all getting a 3 month old product, with security holes.
Wow, what a surprise.

--
No unauthorized use. Trespassers will be shot. Survivors will be shot again.

switching my computer off in the morning. by gimpboy · 2001-10-26 01:24 · Score: 2

that would really screw up my cron jobs that run at 3am. you know the ones that backup my data, update the locate database, download big stuff when people aren't using the network, etc.

i dont have to be sitting infront of my computer to use it. not to mention the fact that i'm not the only person that uses it. i'll admit that it must be hard for a windows user to understand the concept of a multiuser environment-it's hard to login to a computer when it's not on.

plus if you are rebooting in the morning, you walk by the computer, push the button, get a cup of coffee and the redhat logo is staring you in the face. rebooting alot is once every few hours (or minutes which i have expirenced with windows).

--
-- john

Early (late?) observations on XP by drinkypoo · 2001-10-26 07:28 · Score: 2

I just installed XP last night. It's blowing up all over the place in new and interesting ways I wasn't even experiencing under Windows ME, widely regarded to be the biggest piece of shit microsoft ever put together.

Namely; When an application hangs, I often have trouble closing it. Notably, I'm having this problem with Nero CD 5.5.4.0 right now. Under WinME I could at least reliably get things to terminate.

Next: I have a hard time rebooting the system. It just doesn't want to quit. In related news, I've actually managed to switch away from my current user context (IE, Switch User) to the guest, then try to log out of the guest; I finally switched away from the guest user by trying to shut down which sent me back to the login screen. Then I clicked on guest for laughs to see what that context was doing, and I was sent to a blank (desktop-colored) screen where my pointer moved around, but there was nothing to click, and ctl-alt-del didn't bring up the task manager. I had to perform a hard reset.

Lots of other apps don't work right, even in compatibility mode. Taskbar cleanup doesn't work right either; I told it to show everything, and explicitly told it to always show trillian, and sometimes trillian appears, and sometimes it doesn't. I've had lots of new problems with xnews, but then xnews is pretty crappy anyway in that it will try to step on memory on a regular basis. I don't know if that's the author's influence, or delphi's - probably the latter.

The default driver for an nVidia card (in this case, GEforce2MX/MX400) doesn't have OpenGL acceleration. I had to download detonator XP from nVidia directly. This is silly, but I'm sure there's some stupid licensing rationale. Side note: I got it at about 5KBps. Thanks, nVidia!

XP boots dramatically slower than ME on my system when using FAT32, but now that I've passed the point of no return and gone to NTFS, it's booting faster as advertised. Security seems to be very simple for even a stupid person to use, but I haven't found the wealth of ACLs I'm used to in NT yet.

Oh yeah, and an install took an hour and twenty minutes. There's no excuse for that in this day and age. A complete RH7.1 install on this machine takes about 25 minutes including partitioning and formatting. That includes not only a complete SMP-aware operating system, but also the whole host of other stuff we're used to seeing bundled with a linux distribution. Converting to NTFS was an agonizingly slow process, too; They decided I needed to see which files were being converted, no doubt that slows things down considerably.

I haven't tried the encryption stuff yet. I'm going to hold off until I hear some technical reviews of it, which hopefully will show up here eventually. Namely, are there any potential back doors, et cetera. Probably are, knowing mickeysoft.

All in all, quite a mediocre experience.

--
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"

Re:What does XP stand for? Emoticon. by TeknoHog · 2001-10-26 12:09 · Score: 2

>>Today is a good day to live in Europe.

> Unless you live in London.. if there anything going to happen in Europe it gonna be london....

Shit! Living in Cambridge, 50 miles off London. What was the blast radius of an H-bomb again? This really worries me. I better stay off work, stay home and read /. intensely to keep up with latest news on /osm/bin/laden.

--
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.

No Bill, I don't trust you. Or Madonna either. by maz1021 · 2001-10-29 05:42 · Score: 1

Day 1: 11 posted fixes for XP totalling 30 MB of downloads. Some are labelled 'critical', but also warn that they are not for everybody. Okey dokey then. XP promises 'fewer crashes' and the ability to delete files from the hard drive. Guess what? We already have dozens of ways to delete files from our hard drives. If you didn't know that, you don't need a computer. As for the 'fewer crashes' promise, do you buy a fourth car from a salesman who has already sold you three lemons? Ignoring the obvious issues here, that being the concerns over a future mega-monopoly for MS, let's step back and take a look at what's being advertised? What's new, Bill? Why do I need to upgrade? The answer with Windows XP (and Office XP, for that matter) is that I don't. My accountant will readily agree. Thousands upon thousands of programmers could have written a bunch of dll's that would have given us XP 'functionality' given the source code. Actually, in a lot of cases you wouldn't even need the source. In a lot of cases, you wouldn't need the feature anyway. I ask again, why should I upgrade? Maybe it's just wishful thinking, but I really think that resentment of MS will eventually build to the point where the PC consumer will no longer tolerate their absurd approach to software. It's the job of people like us to show that the new technology community is global, open, intelligent, fast and most importantly, absolutely necessary.

841 of 1,218 comments (clear)