Slashdot Mirror
Election Day Discussion
With the polls now already open in most of the country, this is the official on-topic place for all Slashdot readers to discuss the election itself. And get out and vote if you can. Also, if you haven't noticed, the Slashdot poll shows once and for all where Slashdot readers fall on the election. I'm off to vote in a couple hours. Wonder if we'll have Diebolds in my district.
First Vote!
Like always, it's a choice between a doosh and a turd sandwhich.
For meaningful change, the only choice is Michael Badnarik!
"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it." -- Ayn Rand
Well... it looks like we already have our first reports of voter fraud in Phildaelphia, atleast, according to Drudge. I have been trying to see if I can find out if it's true or not through the Election Incident Reporting System (EIRS). So far, their site has been very, very slow to respond. Anyways.. Drudge says that there are reports of over 2,000 votes already being casted on voting machines BEFORE the polls were even open. Is anyone in Phily that can corroborate the stories? Nothing I have seen thus far says which candidate the votes were casted for, but I am very curious...
Hmmm.
At least that's what John Fund at the WSJ says this morning!
4 more years!
The next pasture is always greener
A place to talk politics that will start off intelligently, and end in a bloodbath where only the extreme sides remain.
And no one will change their mind, regardless.
WHAT FUN!
Good quote, too many chars. Seriously, the slashdot 120 char limit sucks!
Finally, something to distract me. I want some extreme polazation in this thread people!!!
May whatever forces that keep us moving toward whateverness please please please put Kerry into office. Not because I think he's a better man, but he's hella better than Bush.
Adian
Drudge is saying voting machines were found with hundreds of votes on them, _before_ polling started in philidepllhia. Anyone know if they use diabold machines there?
Official GOD FAQ.
..it is also obvious that Slashdot has an international readership. Would there be any way to re-run the poll restricting it to US bound IP address to see if the race isn't so runaway for Kerry from the slashdot side?
That being said, I'm all for Kerry to win. But I live in a pretty red state. Though while standing in line to feed my paper ballot marked with a pen into some thing I saw that the few people in front of me had all voted for Kerry/Edwards which I found interesting, considering how little either party has paid attention to North Carolina this year.
As a rock-in-roll Physicist once said, No matter where you go, there you are.
We have some other brand of e-voting machine. With no paper, and no network connection -- just a power cord into the wall. Wonder what happens if they're unplugged? Or crash?
We have optical scan machines made by some company other than Diebold over here in Grandville.
Most of my friend's absentee ballots are identical to mine, so I assume these machines have become pretty standardized across michigan.
X(7): A program for managing terminal windows. See also screen(1).
I forgot what it was like to turn on the TV or drive 2 blocks without being flooded with political ads. Yay! Finally back to real life. :)
Dr Superlove 300ml. I use my powers for awesome
Submitted this, but in case it gets rejected, Matt Drudge is reporting that about 2,000 votes were "planted" in Philadelphia-area voting machines before the polling places opened this morning. I guess it would be un-Drudgelike to mention which candidate the votes favored, but regardless, here's the abstract as of thirty seconds ago:
Before voting even began in Philadelphia -- poll watchers found nearly 2000 votes already planted on machines scattered throughout the city... One incident occurred at the SALVATION ARMY, 2601 N. 11th St., Philadelphia, Pa: Ward 37, division 8... pollwatchers uncovered 4 machines with planted votes; one with over 200 and one with nearly 500... A second location, 1901 W. Girard Ave., Berean Institute, Philadelphia, Pa, had 300+ votes already on 2 machines at start of day... INCIDENT: 292 votes on machine at start of day; WARD/DIVISION: 7/7: ADDRESS: 122 W. Erie Ave., Roberto Clemente School, Philadelphia, Pa.; INCIDENT: 456 votes on machine at start of day; WARD/DIVISION: 12/3; ADDRESS: 5657 Chew Ave., storefront, Philadelphia, Pa... A gun was purposely made visible to scare poll watchers at Ward 30, division 11, at 905 S. 20th St., Grand Court. Police were called and surrounded the location... Developing...
go out and vote for Bush and stuff...and stuff...
[insert redundant political rant here]
"I think, therefore I get paid."
It can't be said enough times: Americans! Please go vote! Voting is a right you get to keep by the very act of exercising it.
If someone tries to interfere with your vote, holler for one of the guys in blue helmets.
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Drudgereports.com has a post that is interesting it talks about voting machines in Philadelphia
I hope it's all decided quickly, so the Canadian who sits next to me at work can stop bitching about the election all day every day. I swear she cares more deeply about this than I do.
And, to her, no, I still won't watch F.9/11, thank you very much. I don't need any extra propoganda in my life.
Put identity in the browser.
don't bitch about the president during the next 4 years
vodka, straight up, thank you!
I just voted using the Inka-Vote system here in california that basically replaces the poking coles with ink dots, and it was very nice. I got a paper receipt, like I want, and there is no way in hell that my ballot could be misinterpreted. I feel bad for the folks using touchscreens and diebold machines.
cause, ya know, a vote for Bush is a Bad Thing.
Wake up.
Finally, an slashdot story that is non-American-centric!
The surprise isn't how often we make bad choices; the surprise is how seldom they defeat us.
Voting was relatively easy/painless in PA. Supposedely lines were long this morning (at least at my polling place). VA people are telling me that their polls had lines in record numbers. My parents waited in line for two hours (1 outside the building, 1 inside).
I'm curious to hear from Ohio voters. Has anyone been challenged yet?
Sig it.
.....and really, the presidential race means little to nothing to me, as I hate both of the candidates. I'll vote out the incumbent, because I don't like the way the country's going right now, but that's about it.
No, my chief reason for being excited is because of the local issues on the ballot--for instance, the city I live in [ Bangor, ME ] has an issue on the ballot to move the police station away from downtown. I personally feel it belongs downtown, where people can walk into it....but anyway. That, and a couple state measures, are the only good reasons to vote for me, other than the general principal of "If I don't vote, I really have to right to bitch about what happens, later"
In Xanadu did Kubla Khan
A stately pleasure dome decree
I don't live in US. I read about people not turning up for voting. But I saw the long queues on TV. What is the turnout? Is it better than previous elections or is it the same or worse?
According to snopes.com, it's already a sure thing! ;-)
Got to the poll at 6:02, polls opened at 6:00. 70 people in line ahead of me in this dark blue area of a dark blue state.
Are they turning out like that in Texas?
the major advances in civilization are processes which all but wreck the societies in which they occur - A.N. White
A valiant attempt by the Slashdot editors to slashdot Slashdot itself.
"goatse? What's that? Anyone have a link?" - AC
I voted today on Diebold in Md. System worked ok. My "voter admin slip" which is a piece of paper with all my info(name address etc) was marked with which machine I used, so presumably if that machine blue screens or gets EMPed by a clever trouble maker they can call me up and ask what I voted. You could "change you mind in the booth" which I tried out by unclicking and then reclicking a box. At the end you get a nice summary before hitting the commit button. All in all I like this better than paper, but I wish it printed out a little receipt that I put in a box for recount purposes. Here's hoping for the best.
Remember to vote, or P. Diddy will kill you.
Let's keep a tally of sites with relevant information. Not sure if there's a bias in their reporting of news, but I've come to like Real Clear Politics as a way to keep track of the polls, etc.
Of course there's always non-US news sites like The Guardian and The Economist's articles regarding the election.
Breaking "news" also appears on Drudge Report. As far as blogs go, I don't really have any good ones. Any other ones you guys like?
Small potatoes make the steak look bigger.
They were touch screen devices that were named "WinVote". The first thing I saw was a blue screen. Man was I scared.
On a side note, I don't remember seeing voter turnout like this before, but the only elections I was involved with in this state were strictly senatorial or congressional. Those times I was in line for a good 10 minutes, this morning was a little over an hour. There was a great turnout and just about everyone in line seemed pretty excited. The folks at the polls who weren't election officials (people from the different parties) did a good job of helping people out without bugging the hell out of us (handing out copies of the ballots, walking the old people to the building and through the line - BUT not to the voting machines).
All in all it was a good experience, and I hope it works like this across the whole country.
I've been wanting to get this off my chest for a while now, and what better forum for this than slashdot.
We have an election system here in the US that attempts to count every vote. At some point they stop counting and announce the final results.
Anyway, we learned 4 years ago (and are learning this time too) that the vote is not accurate. It is error prone and sometimes subjective. But I haven't seen anyone attempt to quantify the level of error in the voting process? Why hasn't there been some academic or impartial attempt to measure the margin of error in our polling.
Why is this important? Because if you don't know the margin of error, then you don't know what the outcome is. Period. If Bush reports 51% to Kerry 49% and the margin of error is 5%, then we don't know who won the election. It's a statistical tie and anyone who announces a winner is at best foolish.
Someone said to me that, if you are living in an area where the vote is more or less decided (such as a very strong Bush locale, or a very strong Kerry locale), especially if you are voting the other way from the general populus, then don't waste your vote on either the Bush or Kerry side. Instead, vote for one of the smaller parties - if they receive 5% of the vote, then their funding is increased, and they may be able to work on something good in your area.
This doesn't follow in all counties, just in those that are very very strongly Bush or Kerry, and you are voting the other way. 'Cos if you vote the other way, you vote will more or less be lost.
Finally, no matter which way you are thinking of voting, go out and vote. If you don't know who to vote for, then vote for a 3rd party. But cast your vote!
T.
> And get out and vote if you can.
No, no, no, no. Get out and vote EVEN IF YOU CAN'T.
I don't care how hard it is, how inconvenient it is, what state you live in - think your state's tally is a foregone conclusion? So what - the totals still matter.
Seriously, folks - no matter which "side" you're on, this election MATTERS. GO VOTE!
Or don't complain for four years.
No gods, no demons, and no masters. Secular Humanism!
Looks like the early polls are favoring kerry 53/46/1 overall and 300/270ish electorally.
"Who is the Journal of Quantum Physics going to believe?" --Stephen Hawking
The polls are swamped in fairfax. The procedure is as follows:
1) Stand in line to get your id checked. If you are registered you get a blue index card.
2) Stand in a different line with your card and wait for a winvote machine to open up.
3) When it is your turn you present your card to the election worker that supervises the terminal that just opened up. She takes your blue card and unlocks the machine.
4) You vote.
Note that thing differentiating a random person that walked up to the machine and a registered, approved voter is posession of the blue card. Multiple people left after receiving their blue cards, saying they couldn't wait another hour and that they would return later. There is nothing stopping these people from reproducing the cards and returning multiple times. The voting places are an absolute packed madhouse, NO ONE would notice if someone just walked up to the second line with a blue card.
Did anyone else see any other glaring holes in their election procedures?
<high-level position here>
<name of stupid small company here>
If you have any problems at your polling place, call the Election Protection hotline at 866-OUR-VOTE (866-687-8683). This is not the time for complaisance.
In the rest of the democratic world, as far as I know, this is illegal. It seems to us that it goes against having a fair election. And yet in America it is normal practice. Why?
11.0010010000111111011010101000100010000101101000
P. Diddy will kill you
This will be interesting as we find out just how many comments the database will handle in one day. I think the previous record was around 2000 or so on 9/11. Happy voting to all.
to all the candidates who are running today. I sincerely hope that the "best" candidate wins.
One of my even greater hopes is that whoever loses will concede and allow the victor to take the publicly appointed position. Especially in the presidential race. I feel that this country should unite under the leadership of the president regardless of who they voted for, but whoever was elected. The electoral college, given power by the people, gets to decide who the president of the United States will be for the next four years, for good or ill. I hope and pray that whoever wins will have the courage and fortitude to lead us in the next few years. I also hope and pray the "loser" will have the courage to admit defeat and let the country move forward.
We may not particularly like the choices, but let's be the best people we can be and progress from there. Best of luck/karma!!!
We Understand Your Pain
- A very interesting read, article at the TorontoStar. Let me know if you cannot access it and I'll post the text.
This is not a sig.
I can joke about the election as much as the next person, but at least have some composure, people!
:P
That being said, let's hope there aren't any shennagans with the outcome this time like in 2000
Join the TWIT army now!
In my county we do things right. No expensive, uneliable, hackalicious electronic gear. I voted with a pen, on a card. That card goes in a scantron machine - the same technology that we've all been using since 7th grade. I'm very happy with voting this way.
/. just /. itself?
In other news: is it just me or did
Only in a Slashdot fantasy can a Slackware install turn into several hours of sex . . . . .
I leaned in and looked at the book (breaking every rule in the book by looking at the book) and saw my name and pointed to it. The attendant looked at my name and stated, "but your drivers license says 2950 Ridge Rd, but in my book it says 2951 Ridge Rd" (an address which does not exist)
She spent 20 minutes on the phone with the board of elections trying to figure out what it is she was supposed to do.
Despite having a drivers license with 2950, a voter registration card with 2950, she was bound and determined not to let me vote because her book said 2951. I asked what paperwork I would need to fill out if I wanted to claim that I had moved. She explained that I could fill out the paperwork, but my vote would not be counted until the paperwork cleared. Figuring that would mean my vote would only be counted in a disputed recount situation (if even then) this wasn't acceptable to me either.
Finally another attendant called the Board of Elections (because I was starting to get very agitated) and discovered I could fill out the change of address forms with me, vote, and then turn the forms into the board of elections today.
I'm still not convinced my vote will get counted. I was given an "I Voted" sticker, and wondered if I did or not.
Introducing Microsoft Vacuum 1.0 The first Microsoft product that doesn't suck.
Site is slow after only 40 comments. Use the mirror.
you just used the word "hella". Fear my wrath! ^_^ That being said, I am forced to agree with the thrust of your argument: Go Kerry!
Rhapsody in Numbers
It makes no difference which one of us you vote for. Either way, your planet is doomed. DOOMED!
and I was disgusted to see that my candidate was not on the ballot. I truly believe he can "end global terrorism within 24 hours."
Click here for a free picture of an iPod!
but I couldn't get on /. I forget what I was going to say - because I am more concerned...did /. get /.'ed?
I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
There's only one option here - you must vote for Fxjkhr. And remember - regime change begins at home.
To make laws that man cannot, and will not obey, serves to bring all law into contempt.
--E.C. Stanton
Just look at all the machines that had hundreds of votes in them even before voting started. These elections are a complete fraud, they are thoroughly corrupted.
Why bother voting? Just get out there and riot.
In Northern Virginia, they're using WINVote machines. I used one this morning in North Arlington - and waited TWO HOURS PLUS to vote.
The wait was not due to the machines, though; they only had one set of voter rolls, and one person flipping through them to verify voters. They had us divided up into A-K and L-Z lines. The L-Z line was maybe 30-45 minutes; the A-K line was the aforementioned 2+ hours. I worry about how many people turned away from the lines, just because they didn't man the polls appropriately...
All around the world, we're watching you today. We love America, we want you to lead and inspire and show us what democracy and freedom and technology can do. But right now we're feeling scared, confused, and angry about what your President has lead you to do over the past three years.
Please, give us back the America we admire and believe in. Don't turn yourselves into a religious state. Don't turn your back on the UN and the other peoples of the world - in the end we are people first, American or French or Iraqi or Chinese second. Give us back the America that went to the moon and carried out the Berlin airlift and brought us the IT revolution. Give us back the America of Kennedy's vision and MLK's dream.
And please, don't let the world's most successful democracy be reduced to a joke with a repeat of last election's Floridan antics.
Read Pynchon.
If we all do our part, we could have every lawyer in the nation tied up for years!
>- ->
Needless to say, I examined the punch card ballot very carefully for any hanging chads, but I'm unsure the 100 people ahead of me did the same...
I wonder if we'll have to recount in Michigan:
"This is Wolf Blitzer reporting from Detroit, where the 2004 presidential election still hangs in the balance after massive voting problems two weeks ago. Coming up next wil be a debate between Robert Novak and James Carville over how best to tar and feather Jon Stewart. Tucker Carlson will be flogging Stewart with his bowtie."
Oh, God, please finish this election by the end of the week! ;)
Say, forget the election - who wants to see if we can slashdot Slashdot? ;)
ABSURDITY, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.
President: John Kerry
Every other partisan position: Libertarian, when available
Why - My views are strongly libertarian, but I felt that 4 more years of Bush was too much to risk, he has done so much harm to this country. I feel that Kerry is the better of the two for the job. If I was not in a battleground state (I am in Iowa), I PROBABLY would have voted Badnarik; however even then I would have thought twice. His website pre-nomination had a ton of kooky views on it that have quietly been removed since then, like wanting to strap down criminals guilty of violent crime to their beds for the first month in jail so that their muscles go through atrophy and they are no longer a physical threat to anyone. I wish I was kidding, and I wish I could post the link but as I said the page has changed and I can't find it on any of the archive sites.
Yes I voted, but I honestly don't understand why I bothered. I live in a state that is as far from battleground as possible and voted for the 'other guy' When the electoral college takes over and casts their lot with the overwhelming majority here my vote will be thrown on the floor. Ignored.
I don't see how I am not being disenfranchised here. Yes I know slashdot leans toward the liberal side, but it can't be that hard to understand how I feel... Voting Republican in New York is the same as voting Democratic in Texas. You don't count. When it's all said and done, you simply don't count. I can't be the only person who feels this way. Why is my voice meaningless simply due to some silly boundary drawn on a map? Can anybody give me a good reason why we don't use the popular vote... aside from the fact that politicians will no longer be able to ignore those of us in states that aren't 'battleground' ones?
and SHAME on Colorado for turning down that bill that would split their EC votes based on the popular vote. Give yourself a voice people!
I can't be the only person who feels this way.
Plenty of business at my polling place this morning in solidly-kerryville Massachusetts. Got a big piece of paper and a pen and filled in the little ovals, just the way god intended.
I don't recall the name of the machine taking the completed ballots--I do recall it was not 'diebold'.
They did have print-outs posted for each machine to confirm the counts started at zero.
Ron Reagan was on Howard Stern this morning making some goods points in the anti-bush campaign. Some guy who already voted for bush called to say what a mistake he had made. If only others can learn from that mistake.
Are slashdot voters lockstep partisans, if not how are your votes split? Just curious...
Ed Craig "Who cares what you think?" George W. Bush, 4th of July 2001
>Finally, something to distract me. I want some extreme polazation in this thread people!!!
Vertical! Horizontal! My really cool sunglasses!
North! South! On a magnetar!
vi! EMACS! Written in COBOL and ported to Windows 95!
Positive! Negative! Me adjusting the jawstrap for my tinfoil hat and forgetting about my fillings! OUCH!
And what the fuck is polazation anyway?!? If the jawstrap on my tinfoil hat didn't hurt my teeth so damn much, I'd be immune to this sort of strategery by Karl Rove (the only guy diabolical enough to imagine cramming Michael Moore's fat ass into an Osama bin Laden costume for Hallowe'en!) tryin' to convince me that you're really a Kerry operative makin' fun of our President! You can't fool me! Can't you see the violence in'erent in the syst------[tape runs out]
1. I have a black and white TV that I seldom watch, what the heck is all this red/blue state stuff?
2. Can we please stop calling any citizen of a United State "American"? There's a reason the word "United Statesian" was never used... If you live in the Union, you're a citizen of your state. American's can be Canadian, Mexican, Panamanian....
3. Did I hear right that Senator Daschle has obtained a court order keeping only Republican poll watchers out of polling places on South Dakota Indian Reservations?
4. Anyone want to tell me about the wonders of some neat new technology and help me overcome post-election depression?
Trying to use sarcasm in text-based forums does not work.
Got up at 0500, at the poll (at Langley HS) at 0600, out at 0630. By the time I left there were well over 100 people in line to vote. Line snaked around the gym, through the door, and around the outside of the gym.
Best Slashdot Co
No Diebold in Dupage County, IL, I'm glad to say. :) We have the "fill in the oval, let the Scantron machine scan it" setup. I guess when your county is 90% Republican you don't feel the need to rig the election with a bogus computer voting system. ;)
-------
"Every artist is a cannibal, every poet is a thief."
Orleans Parish
- 441 S. Jeff Davis: machines not working
- 1949 Duels Street Run out of Provisional Ballots
- 3411 Broadway, Terrell Mary Church magnet school: voter says only one machine working.
- 3900 Louisiana: machines not working
-Benjamin Banneker School, Burdette (only one machine working; machine for a whole precinct not working)
- Jackson School (ward 1 Precinct 1) No keys for machines
- Joseph Bartholemew Golf Course Club House
- Little Woods Elementary
- Live Oak Middle School
- Louisiana Parkway Between S. Broard and South Dorgenois not working.
-McDonogh 28 on Esplanade
- Mc Main Sr. High School: no machines
- Phillips Jr. High School: one machine working but not working right.
- Shirley Jefferson Canter
Jefferson Parish
- 38th Street voting place (Arizona St. and Arkansas) people are not on the books.
- 400 Flock St: no machines.
- Firestation on Mississippi avenue
- Hazelhurst Community Center at Causeway and Jefferson in Metairie.
- No machines at Melody between Vets and I-10.
- Precincts 41 and 42 at Lakeshore Playground: provisional voting problem.
- Precincts 44 and 45 (unsure of exact location but it is on Lake Avenue in Metairie) machines not working.
Plaquemines Parish
- Boothville-Venice Community Center (Venice) - Chris Goodwyne (Asst. Principal Boothville-Venice HS) 985-534-7520 (not working).
St. Bernard Parish
- Willie Smith School (not working) and long lines and precincts changed without notice.
Tangipahoa Parish
- Vineyard Elementary: commissioner allowing only provisional voting (says Sec of State only allowing this); people are not filling out forms but still voting, and afraid their votes aren't counting.
Hi all,
I cannot yet vote in this country but I would like to remind you of the importance of this, and encourage you to vote.
There are certain ideas and principles that are central to the political heritage of our country: freedom of speech and free assembly without fear of persecution, the right to be secure against arbitrary search and seizure, the right to a fair and speedy public trial, and above all, the idea that all people are created equal, and have these unalienable rights to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness, regardless of race, origin or religion.
These principles have often distinguished the U.S. from other, less fortunate places places in the world. People have admired it because of that, and the country has been able to hold the moral high ground because of adherence to these ideas.
However, although these rights should be unalienable as values common to all human beings, they cannot be taken for granted unless people take an active role in participating in the political process and ensuring that these values are held up. I have lived under three quite different political systems in my life, and not all of them have allowed its citizens to have these liberties. Through my own experiences and memories of my friends, I have seen how they can be granted and taken away, and it always happens because of either the activity or inactivity of common people, people like you and me.
So please go out and vote, and encourage your friends to do the same. And whatever your political affiliation is, I hope you think about these rights when making your choice.
Thank you.
Targo
When men used to be men
Didn't see any "observers" from either party there. Still using punch card ballots, so no "Pre-stuffed" machines here.
The Internet has no garbage collection
A year ago, my wife and I moved from an apartment to our house.
A week later, we went and got our drivers licenses changed, and both registered.
I registered Green, she registered Republican.
A few months later, we both received our registration cards.
She voted this morning.
When I tried to vote, after waiting for two hours I was told that I wasn't on the rolls. 20 minutes later of me refusing to leave, especially since I had my voter registeration card, they told me that I was registered at my old address.
Which is garbage, because I _never_ registered to vote at my old address.
Evidently, this is pretty common. Now i'm expected to say "Gosh, i'm not going to wait another two hours to vote. I have to get to work."
Well fuck them, i'm voting after work today. I don't care if i'm there for 6 hours.
I'm still disenfranchised, as I cannot vote for my local representatives.
I voted this morning (in Ohio) using the electronic Diebold systems. I am well aware of the issues behind them because of their architecture, but I have to give them credit for their easy interface. If someone says they couldn't use it properly because it is too complex then they probably couldn't operate a shopping cart. If you have not seen them they are a white surface with lights that blink where you have not voted and a solid light where you have. Black boxes group the different candidates and issues. This is nothing like I was expecting. I assumed they had a more ATM like interface, which would have been more difficult to use I think. My only complaint was we only had five machines so I waited in line for two and a half hours (I got there at seven thirty).
Happy voting.
Don't forget that those voting for President Bush are to vote in the SPECIAL ELECTION, on Wednesday, November 3rd.
They should mark voters thumb nails with a marker pen once they've voted. That'll fix it.
As someone who feels passionate about the injustices in the world and the u.s. i am rather dissapointed by the u.s. and world's support of kerry. I think we deserve better candidates for presidents of the United States - as we seem to like religion so much some one like a martin luther king, or someone like mother tersa, maybe rosa parks. The anybody but bush is ideology is childish at best. We deserve better.
I personally do not think that everyone should be voting. In fact I think a lot of people SHOULDN'T be voting!
Ignorance is rampant and I would rather have an intelligent informed nation choosing their leader based on facts, logic, and rationale rather than emotional responses, self-interest, and personality marketing/propoganda.
The Cato Institute published a report which is here: http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-525es.html [Cato.org] and it details its findings on the study of voter ignorance. Here is an excerpt:
"Overall, close to one-third of Americans can be categorized as 'know-nothings' almost completely ignorant of relevant political information," writes Ilya Somin, a law professor at George Mason University, in "When Ignorance Isn't Bliss: How Political Ignorance Threatens Democracy."
"Most of the time," Somin notes," only bare majorities know which party has control of the Senate, some 70 percent cannot name either of their state's senators and the vast majority cannot name any congressional candidate in their district at the height of a campaign."
Overall, voters tend to be "abysmally ignorant of even very basic political information... the sheer depth of most individual voters' ignorance is shocking to observers not familiar with the research."
A few examples from many in the report:
* The Patriot Act? What's that? Three-fourths of Americans say they know little or nothing about it. 58 percent say they've heard "nothing" or "not much" about it.
* Seventy percent don't know about the $500 billion new drug benefit added this year to Medicare, which Somin describes as "probably the most significant domestic legislation passed during the Bush administration."
* A majority cannot make even a rough estimate of how many Americans soldiers have been killed in Iraq.
* 61 percent believe that there has been a net loss of U.S. jobs in 2004.
* Over 60 per cent don't know that, during President Bush's term, there has been an explosion in domestic spending (about 25 percent above previous levels) that has enormously increased the national debt.
* Last year, 58 percent of Americans could not name a single federal Cabinet department.
And such voter ignorance is, alas, nothing new:
* In 1964, at the height of Cold War tensions, only 38 percent of the public knew that the Soviet Union was not a member of NATO.
* In 1994, after Republicans took control of Congress under the highly-publicized leadership of Rep. Newt Gingrich, 57 percent of Americans said they'd never heard of Gingrich, despite the avalanche of press coverage.
* In 1996, 67 percent couldn't name their congressman, and only 26 percent knew that senators serve six-year terms.
* In the 2002 elections, only 32 percent of voters knew that the Republican Party controlled the House.
In 1816, Thomas Jefferson wrote: "If a nation expects to be ignorant and free, in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be."
Mass ignorance is easy to exploit and sway opinions based on nothing more than emotions.
And in conclusion I say that if you do not truly understand the issues, have a good concept of how the government and the world works, and grasp the ideals and principles of what this government was founded on and it's history - then stay the hell out of the voting booth!
Libertas in infinitum
I don't like Bush very much, he seems too willing to sell my freedom in the name of security (and being one of the "he who would surrender freedom for security deserves neither" crowd, it's a sticking point for me. I don't like Kerry, either; I think he's promised too much this election. I do want to see the things he's proposed come to fruition (better education/healthcare, decreasing the defecit), but I doubt whether it can really be done. But more than that, I distrust a single-party goverment. The House and Senate will go to the Republicans--the system so strongly favors incumbants that it's only likely to shift a few seats. Pair that with a Bush presidency, and you've got two thirds of government covered. On top of that, at least 2 or 3 Supreme Court justices are likely to retire, and with a willing legislature, Bush can act carte blanche in his appointment of the most extremely conservative judges he's able to find. That's the entire federal government dominated by the right. Put Kerry in instead, watch what happens: Congress and the President will have to fight for every inch on their agendas and when Supreme Court appointments come around, Kerry will have to look more toward the middle for his judges, belaying fears about him appointing from the far left. If it works, it works great. If it doesn't work, it's deadlock. But I'd rather have deadlock than giving my government over to the agenda of a single party, left or right.
Every blog, community, news site and even webcomic I've read today is telling me to vote. I CAN'T. I'M CANADIAN.
Is it really so much to ask that people who *insist* on telling everyone that they *must* vote prefix their sermon with "if you're an American"?
*sigh*
.f00Dave
While I take serious objection to the Killing of innocent people comment (I was there for 366 days and the only dead people I saw had recently fired weapons, and our vehicles had recently created holes), the underlying theme of only uneducated personnel vote Bush is rather insulting. I wont vote for Kerry because he has changed his position on several issues that I see very relavent, and he has voted to cut military spending. That in itself is killing of "innocent people". You can't protect if your equipment is broke and unavailable.
I wont vote for Bush because I disagree with his economic policy.
I would vote for a third party, but they have no chance of winning, so my vote still dont count.
Instead I sit at work, knowing that I have no reason to bitch, cant if I want to (depends on how they want to interprit the regs), and realize that I dont care eitherway because it isnt going to change jack.
BTW, IMO, Kerry's plan may have worked in the beginning, but wont be anymore effective now because of the situation on the ground (coming from first hand expierence).
Stop signs are only Suggestions
We had a couple rent-a-cops where I voted, which is new. The public schools closed for the day, because so many of them are polling places, and the current climate of fear (to say nothing of uncertainty and doubt) made the administration of the schools nervous about safety. Since my polling place is a private school that stayed open, they city hired security for it.
My only real concern is just the outcome. I know that the GOP is going to sweep the local (West Michigan) races, and the constitutional amendment banning gay marriages and civil unions and anything else that tries to give gay couples rights similar to hetero couples is going to pass. So depending on how the presidential race comes out, I may have to start learning "O Canada".
http://alternatives.rzero.com/
got to the polls at 7:00am and they were having people re-vote already..
The felt tip pens they were using were bleeding through the paper ballot and onto the other side causing the reader machine to not accept them.. great..
so I stood in line for an hour and a half to voice my vote anyway.
?SYNTAX ERROR IN LINE 42
president: Bill O'Reilly
vice-president: Tammy Bruce
O'Reilly cannot win even if he garners a majority of the votes because most states require even write-in candidates to register their candidacy. Nonetheless, O'Reilly can have a "Perot Effect". If he garners a large enough percentage of the vote, then the dominant political parties will adopt his ideas. After Perot lost the race for president, the Republicans adopted most of his ideas for the "Contract with America", of which most became law.
Here is what O'Reilly supports.
-
affirmative action on the basis of economic status, not ethnicity
-
putting the national guard on the border to defend it (note: many European
countries use the military to defend the borders from illegal aliens)
-
using air power to stop despots in countries where the population is hostile to
Western culture (i.e. never again sacrifice American lives for ingrates like
the Iraqis)
-
allowing homosexual couples to adopt kids
-
the minimum wage
-
strong legislation to protect the environment
bottom line: Bill O'Reilly for PresidentThey know the true costs of war. And they realize when it's really neccessary.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
This is the best interactive electorial college map I found on the Internet. Clicking on the button 'Electorial votes' changes the proportions of the states to reflect the electorial college. Lot of stats and fun to play with too.
As of now, I believe after reading this that the states are going to be voting almost exactly as the did in 2000, and it will come down to Florida making the call, yet again!
VA people are telling me that their polls had lines in record numbers.
I vouch for that. I waited nearly an hour; the line was out the door at one point. Never have I seen the place look like that - usually it's just me and a handful of old people. Today it looked like the pharmacy line at Wal-Mart during flu season.
Lots of single moms and minorities out this morning. Maybe VA has gone Republican more than not in the past, but I feel semi-hopeful today.
The House Between - Original Sci-Fi Series
"Also, if you haven't noticed, the Slashdot poll shows once and for all where Slashdot readers fall on the election"
... most likely the ones that pay the subsciption fees for ad free page views.
That you could care less for 18% of your readers
When I wrote you a few weeks back - you replied that the site was getting to partisan and that you'd fix it.
Anakin: "If you didn't notice I came to save you Master"
Obi Wan (chained with arms above head looks at Anakin being strung up with chains to be executed): "Good job!"
Yell & scream & rant & rave... it's no use... you need a shaaaave ~ Bugs Bunny
I voted this morning. The first thing I saw was the 'Diebold blue screen'.
This worried me for a sec, but the machine swiftly went to the candidates and correctly cast my vote without a hitch. Well, except one teeny tiny problem. I dialled it in from Australia.
Just kidding, just kidding. See my earlier post.
http://www.somethingawful.com/articles.php?a=2463
hmm.. ok, i'll take you on..
1) please list these supposedly new and "empty" military training facilities.
2) please tell me how keeping the experienced soldiers in the field until their rotation is up, regardless of their scheduled ETS, is a bad thing...?
3) please list the high-ranking military officials who resigned SPECIFICALLY due to Bush's policies. that should be easy considering how many you claim to exist.
4) if it's deemed sensitive code, why would you want it exported? for profit? thought so... I take it you are referring to cutting-edge encryption code? if so, then as far as I'm concerned, we shouldn't let it leave the NSA, let alone the borders...
5) when/where did Bush attempt to reduce "combat pay"? It's been known for quite some time that it would remain at a steady and sufficient $225/mo, and seperation pay would remain at $250/mo. In fact, Basic Allowance for Housing (BAH) is increasing an estimated 6.2%, staying well ahead of COLA and inflation increases.
And last, but not least, where do you get you steaming piles of misinformation? just curious... try something new: backup your statements with facts and sources.
bring it.
"I think, therefore I get paid."
How is it possible to see what people in front of you vote? Certainly here in Ireland, and I had assumed in most other democracies, one secretly marks one's ballot in a screened off area, and then places it folded up into a ballot box. I.E. it's a secret ballot.
-- *~()____) This message will self-destruct in 5 seconds...
Whoever wins, we lose. Both parties are taxers and spenders (at all levels, not just Executive - since Bush's tax cuts, my LOCAL taxes have risen to make up for lost federal subsidies). Both parties pretend to be pro Second Amendment, but will trade our gun rights away at the first cynical opportunity. Both parties will gladly trade our freedom for security - witness the huge bipartisan support for the Patriot Act. As usual, I'm voting for Libertarians and marijuana reformers.
the Philly machines are now the Danaher Controls ELECTronic 1242 voting machine. i don't think any distric in Philadelphia has had the vintage 1950's mechanical machines for over two years now. they rolled out these machines for the 2002 elections. it was a local big voting year because it was the Mayoral race.
as for the drudgereport story..... it has not made local news that i caught. not sure what the deal is with it.
I tried to write-in a vote for Nader in Illinois and was told by my precinct captain that my balot would not be "signed" and counted.
Apparantly, we actually do not have the right to vote for whomever we choose. It is actually up to the states to decide for whom we are allowed to vote.
It really sucks to be told for whom you are allowed to vote.
It is state law that you must be provided a paper ballot if you request one. You aren't forced to use the electronic voting machines.
-----
How can you have any pudding if you don't eat your meat?
You should look up "whiskey wagon voting" or something similar. It was commonplace in the 50's in the deep south, places like Louisiana and Missouri used to have voters literally booze it up on a cart/wagon/truck and drive people around to vote at several different polling places multiple times.
Fun!
for such a liberating site like slashdot, since it promotes awesome rebellious operating systems like linux and unix, how could you vote for someone like bush? i almost feel that someone who uses linux, and is passionate about it, as far as its origin, and current day-to-day use, is very contradictory to their political beliefs, and is therefore quite the tard..
Well, it's like this. I didn't vote for either Bush or Kerry, and truthfully, there aren't really any major differences between them.
That said, I kind of hope Bush wins because:
a.) He has a cooler proposal for the future of the space program, and
b.) There's nothing funnier than an angry liberal, and if Bush wins, there will be lots of angry liberals!
Hey, it ain't much, but it's something!
Progressivism: Parasites helping parasites to help themselves - to other people's stuff.
I live just outside Omaha, NE. I went to vote and a woman ahead of me in line was having a conversation with the poll workers. Her name wasn't on the list. She had always voted at that location and hadn't received any notice that she was to vote elsewhere.
The poll workers told her to go talk to the Election Commission to find out where to vote. They said that had been happening to other people, and they had no idea where those people were supposed to vote. An area had just been annexed into Omaha, so it might have been related to that...
The surprising thing, though, is that this woman that couldn't vote said she had just been at the Election Commission to pick up ballots. She's a poll worker, and she can't even figure out where to vote...
-- dR.fuZZo
has determined that George W. Bush has won, with 2% of the East Coast results tabulated (Bush - 56% // Kerry - 49%).
George W. Bush heartily thanks his allies
at Diebold for their assistance in bringing
these latest poll figures.
Before any slashdotter starts feeling to smug about our own tech prowess or too cynical about the electronic voting machines, take a moment to notice the Polls section of Slashdot is down for the count. When I read about today's poll I tried to go vote but got a string of "Service not available" error messages.
Have we slashdotted slashdot?
Electronic voting is so over-rated. I voted using a paper ticket here in Washington DC, and even that was kind of a mess. Once you've filled out the card you run it through a scanner, which counts your vote. But the scanner was jammed, so the cards were deposited into a locked bin instead, for manual counting later. I'm not suggesting any malfeasance here, just pointing out things *always* go wrong - blame it on Murphy if you must point fingers - and having a paper trail is a good thing.
As for SlashPolls, get back on line, dammit, so I can vote! Or should I just write it down on a piece of paper and mail it to CowboyNeal myself?
If this were Usenet, I'd killfile the lot of you.
The government can now hold you indefinitely without trial. Rich people are richer, the deficit is skyrocketing, we've invaded Iraq and killed 100,000 Iraqis...
Or did you mean POSITIVE, meaningful change?
I'm voting Kerry. I like his lies better.
paintball
HAte to respond to an troll, but technically, Lincoln was elected by the Red States. Thats why the Republicans are known as the "Party of Lincoln"
Not to mention conservative groups bulk-challenging votes in Ohio.
After SWVFT, Diebold, and this, how can anyone defend the mentality of the right in America? Oh, right, if Kerry wins the economy will tank and the terrorists will invade Wyoming, like they did under Clinton.
No
If you are a member of a democracy you should always make your opinion heard.
Tell your President, Prime minister, governor premier mayor, MP, MEP, MPP, senator congressman, alderman, councillor etc what you want.
Their job is to represent you, and work in the best interest of their consitiuents and the area as a whole.
To do this they MUST know your opinions.
If you were them and lots of people write/tell you what they want, don't you think that might influence your stance on issues?
If the politicians really thought they wouldn't get re-elected if they voted for the invasion of Iraq, they wouldn't have authorized it.
With recall legislation becoming more popular this is even more important.
Even Bush would get a little nervous if people started recalling their Republican Governors to replace them with Democrats.
FWIW I emailed my MP (Federal representative) about a do not call registry, his assistant emailed back the letter my MP had previously sent requesting such legislation.
Get your country back.
Yours truly,
Mr. X
...Badnairk is badass...
It was A-K,L-Z at my precinct too (western Fairfax). The L-Z line was about half as long as A-K. I got there before the polls opened and it took me an hour to get through (A-K). I'm not sure why they had to divide it up like that - they easily could have broken up the sheets of paper at a different point.
High voter turnout is great though... I'm happy to wait in line if it means that more people are voting.
and same as yesterday the whole site is plastered with ads from OSTG Techjobs in the UK.
So if things go badly today you can jump ship with a single click.
Trust The Computer, The Computer is your friend.
Badnarik has good credentials as a geek, and I'd probably hire him for a programming or systems administration job, but he has no political experience whatsoever. Hell, he wasn't even able to get himself elected to the TEXAS House of Representives. If he (and the Libertarian party in general) are serious about getting into the White House, they need to set their sights a little lower at first: GET PEOPLE INTO OFFICE. *ANY* OFFICE. Local level, state level, whatever. School boards, town/county council, state legislatures, judgeships, etc. This serves two purposes: it shows people that Libertarians actually *can* work with the system and it gives the office-holders actual EXPERIENCE to run for higher office.
Even more importantly, if and when they are actually able run a serious Gubenatorial or Presidential candidate, that person when elected will actually have a BASE OF SUPPORT in the legislative and judicial branches. You can't change the system from the top-down; you have to work from the bottom up.
IMHO the most effective place for the LP to start is getting some Libertarian Judges elected. Judgeships are usually not as highly disputed as Legislative or Executive offices, but they hold a LOT of power. A Libertarian-controlled judiciary would be in the position to check the worst execesses perpetrated by the Democrats and Republicans.
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
Yeah, the check-in procedure did not exactly meet my expectations this morning.
I expected to have to show ID, especially since I recently moved and this would be the first time voting in my new precinct.
At the check-in table for my precinct I was asked my address, and then my name. Polling guy shuffles his papers, "John Doe?" [former resident of my house]
Now this is no huge social engineering feat on my part, and not really a big revelation--I know who I bought the house form; I've been getting his mail for the last 6 months--but how easy would it have been for me to just go along, "Why yes, I am John Doe."
But even after I corrected the polling worker on the name, I wasn't asked for ID or proof of residency. Shouldn't there be something in the rolls indicating a new registration? Also, this is the first time I have voted without signing anything. The poll worker just checked a box next to my name.
Given my location (gee, you think Kerry will carry MA?) there isn't much motivation to exploit the situation. But if this was a swing state, or there was a local race I had an interest in, what (other than my own honesty) would stop me from going back to polling the place after work as John Doe? And what's stopping John Doe from coming back and voting where he really doesn't have a legal right to vote?
(When I registered at my new home, I received a letter from my old home town stating I had been removed from their system, but I only moved 5 miles down the road. John Doe moved out of state. While his appearance on the rolls this morning could mean he has not registered yet at his new address, and so could not vote twice, it could also mean his new registration has not been communicated back his old precinct. Perhaps new voter registrations should contain a step that confirms either the previous registration has been cancelled or the voter is registering for the first time.)
castVote("Kerry");
while (countingVotes()) {
crossFingers();
}
if (getWinner().equals("Bush")) {
bendOver();
moveTo("Canada");
}
"SWVFT"
Why do you think these guys are exclusively right-wing? You don't think that members of both parties from Vietnam hate John Kerry for painting them as baby-killing war criminals? Some of what SBVFT is true, a lot of it is lie or stretching the truth. But I think it stems from a hatred of John Kerry's characterization of them. I mean really, John Kerry's own "band of brothers" photo that he used early in his campaign is composed almost entirely of SBVFT members.
"Diebold"
What does this have to do with the right?
"and this"
You mean preventing people who might be double-voting from voting twice? The "get out the vote" rallies of ACORN and ACT have produced tens or hundreds of thousands of bad voter registrations.
Engineering and the Ultimate
Third party would be best, but clearly (heck, or unclearly) one of the big two is going to eventually win. Douglas Adams said it best IMHO: On its world, the people are people. The leaders are lizards. The people hate the lizards and the lizards rule the people.' 'Odd,' said Arthur, 'I thought you said it was a democracy.' 'I did,' said Ford. 'It is.' 'So,' said Arthur, hoping he wasn't sounding ridiculously obtuse, 'why don't people get rid of the lizards?' 'It honestly doesn't occur to them,' said Ford. 'They've all got the vote, so they all pretty much assume that the government they've voted in more or less approximates to the government they want.' 'You mean they actually vote for the lizards?' 'Oh yes,' said Ford with a shrug, 'of course.' 'But,' said Arthur, going for the big one again, 'why?' 'Because if they didn't vote for a lizard,' said Ford, 'the wrong lizard might get in. Got any gin?'
"There's no success like failure, and failure's no success at all."
- Bob Dylan
This is when normally virulent assholes on either side can make themselves feel better by saying such crap as "it doesn't matter as long as you vote" and similar bromides. It's the equivalent of the Southern-US "bless your heart", where if you tack it onto the worst insult, it cancels out. "Bush? He's an asshole, bless his heart." "Kerry? He's an unabashed socialist, bless his heart."
I say to all of you rabid, two-party-endorsing, Statist votemongers: Fuck you. YOU'RE trying to perpetuate the myth that there's any kind of control over the system, to prolong the amount of time you can crow on your dungheap.
I say to everyone still with some shred of independent thought: Shrug. Don't vote. Don't pay a dime more in taxes, voluntary welfare contributions or government sleeze than you have to without threat to your person. Don't let them pretend that we all agree that today is a wonderfully warm fuckfest.
I want to delete my account but Slashdot doesn't allow it.
n
1.
a) Two or more slices of bread with a filling such as meat or cheese placed between them.
b) A partly split long or round roll containing a filling.
c) One slice of bread covered with a filling.
2. Something resembling a sandwich.
going down in flames... something on the order of 68% no. Any idea why?
so slashdot is reporting on itself now?
Five or ten minute wait inside. Now I'm counting down the minutes until I can start singing NaNaHeyHey. Been waiting almost four years for this.
t heast_sat_440x297.jpg
By the way, Ohio is smiling:
http://www.kellogg.nwu.edu/faculty/maher/temp/nor
Obviously Ohio goes for Kerry. If it were smirking I might predict a
Bush victory.
I'm not sure what to make of the fact that Florida is mooning us.
__ Someday, but not this morning, I'll finally learn to use the preview button.
The tactic is common in other countries, and is a sound one. Significant numbers of votes for "special interest" parties not only push them above the critical threshold, but they are going to attract media attention to those issues. This allows people who otherwise really don't have much of a voice to be heard.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Facts you should know before you vote:
If you truly love your country, you will not just enjoy the advantages, you will be there for your country when there are problems.
100 Facts and 1 Opinion -- The Non-Arguable Case Against the Bush Administration
See The CIA trained Osama bin Laden and other Arabs in the techniques of terrorism.
Government data compares Democrat and Republican economics.
Most media exists to make money. Advertisers are understandably careful not to alienate anyone. It is not possible to develop an accurate opinion of government activities only by listening to the carefully crafted phrases from media employees who would lose their jobs if they seemed to indicate a preference for one policy over another. Books are the major media that are not ad-supported. Here are reviews of 3 movies and 35 books that discuss the corruption of the Bush administration: Unprecedented Corruption: A guide to conflict of interest in the U.S. government.
Bush's education improvements were at least partly fraud.
I recommend a new book, The Family: The Real Story of the Bush Dynasty. Don't expect any author to be perfect. However, this book is an excellent overview of the Bush family, and the best book by this author. Here is a quote which shows just one more fact about the chronic lying of George Herbert Walker Bush and his son George W. Bush: "The official family tree provided by the Bush archivists does not include the two mentally retarded daughters of John M. Walker, and lists only two of James Smith Bush's wives, not all four of them; one of Ray Walker's two wives is omitted, and George Herbert Walker III is listed with only two, instead of three, wives."
Before, Saddam was killing. Now, the U.S. government is killing and destabilizing, and you pay. Improvement?
15 of the nineteen 9/11 attackers were Saudis. Many don't like the U.S. Gov. influence on their country.
Did you see the network footage of George W. Bush holding hands with a Saudi man the Bush family knows as "Bandar Bush"? Since it was Saudis who attacked on 9/11, why did Bush invade Iraq? Was it a smokescreen to get attention away from the Saudis?
Bush borrows money to kill Iraqis. 140 billion borrowed. With interest, you pay 200 billion. When Saudis attack, invade Iraq?
George W. Bush's brother was shown in a lawsuit deposition on 20/20 talking about his prostitutes and using government influence to make money. Family values? Neil Bush is different from other relatives of presidents like Billy Carter; he is heavily involved with government corruption and he does his corruption with the help of his family.
The U.S. government has fought 24 wars since World War II. The system of violence works by creating fear so rich people can profit.
John Fund of the Wall Street Journal has an excellent article today about how the election results are going to play out, hour by hour. He tells you what states are going to close their polls at what time, and discusses what are the key races and key factors in the election around the country. Great read.
Yeah, just doing my part in posting to get the comments quantity to reach new record highs!
Meh.
I have never seen such a large turnout at my polling place. During any other presidential election, there may have been 4-5 people waiting in line; today, it was over 25. Headed back to the polls now to vote now.
look mate - any group headed by John O'Neill, is automatically a right-wing-hatchet job.
This is a gentleman who appears in the Watergate tapes, with Nixon, and was created specifically to counter Kerry. What a sad life John O'Neill has.
... hi bingo
But only if you're voting for Kerry. If you plan on voting for Bush, hey, don't bother waiting in line.
Jesus will make sure that Bush wins, don't you worry.
They do cover both sides but the coverage is heavily tilted against Republicans.
ThisLife.org
Click on the RealAudio icon in the bluish box entitled In this show, a This American Life Special Report: Vote Fraud.
You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
I'm blogging live today, as usual
The faulty log with 3 missing hours (9:52pm to 1:31am) is here
India conducted a full-scale electronic election earlier this year successfully - few of the EVMs were connected or hacked
...polling place.
MyPollingPlace.com will tell you what voting equipment is being used at your polling place, as well as instructions on how to use it. It will also give you the location for where you vote based on your street address and zip code if you are unsure of where to go to vote.
Sig cancelled due to lack of interest
Interesting. I moved out of Omaha last year, and a couple of months ago I received a notice of where I was to vote, forwarded to my new address. So I know they sent 'em out.
Lack of creativity is no excuse for not having a
Ciao
This is the first time I used an electronic voting machine. The election official led me to a touch screen panel and entered an authorization number to allow me to vote. Then she gave me a quick explanation of how it worked. I immediately asked her where the printout came out. She explained that there was no printout. So I asked "How do you do a recount?" I got a puzzled look and an "I don't know."
I really enjoyed voting electronically. I guess it is the geek factor. I just wish there had been a machine set up that I could play with. I really would have liked to see what would happen if I skipped a vote or tried to screw it up some other way. Still my vote is too important to me to play around on the live machine.
I must say that the actual voting process itself was very easy. The ballot was 4 pages long and I had no trouble navigating it and even going back to review my choices in some local races that are particularly important to me. At the end of it the machine showed me a single page with all my choices in every race. When I pressed "vote" I was very confident that I had correctly entered my choices. My one complaint is that lack of paper printout. There should be a piece of paper that I can drop in the ballot box to ensure that my electronic vote matches.
Insert Generic Sig Here:
(Before I get into it, I agree with what you say about the whole base of support. In this election, there are over 1,000 other LP candidates running for local, state, and national offices around the country.)
According to the Constitution, Badnarik meets all the qualifications necessary:
Not having held office before has nothing to do with being a good president. Perhaps the reason nothing changes is because we keep electing people who are already acclimated to "the system." While Badnarik might lack political experience, he far exceeds both baBush and Kerry in constitutional scholarship. (I think you would agree that Bush doesn't know crap about the Constitution, and Kerry isn't much better, having voted for the PATRIOT Act.)
"The evil of the world is made possible by nothing but the sanction you give it." -- Ayn Rand
Just finished watching this and I thought it was very interesting. The filmmakers tried very hard to present just the facts without twisting them:
i ce2004/view/
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/cho
All of you cynics who are refusing to vote, congratulations! You're claiming all the rights of a citizen of Nazi Germany -- i.e., nothing! By staying home, you are doing exactly what many in power want. They want apathy. They want helplessness. Have you noticed that there are concerted efforts by certain parties to prevent people from voting?
... and not to you. You bitch about government not responding to your interests and needs, and you guarantee it by not voting. You whine about your vote not making a difference, and you prove it by not voting at all.
The purpose of voting is to provide ballast against special interests. If everyone who could vote actually did vote, imagine the earthshaking implications -- not so much in this election (which I personally still consider EXTREMELY important) but in all elections in the future. If only a few people vote, then the powers only have to pay attention to them
What can your vote do? Well, for one thing it can cancel out one vote of some dumb ninny who is out there voting against everything you're for (whatever that may be). Sometimes you just do your small part, take out one ninny vote, and you've made a difference.
I imagine many of you will go back to your RPGs and 1st person shooters rather than vote. And you know what? In 4 years you'll pull your heads back out of your backsides and see that the government still isn't doing what you want. And it will be your own doing.
Get your butt out there and vote. If you bothered to register, you must have some inkling of giving a shit. I don't care whom you vote for. (Well, I do, but it's not for me to say.) If everyone who can vote does vote, at least we start to get a government that responds to the people instead of the special interests.
And you guys who really really really really just don't want to bother -- you're the ones who should really motivate and get out there. There are a lot of rabid knuckleheads trying to steal our country. Stand up and be counted. Or sneer your way right into a police state, a welfare state, a fundamentalist state, whatever (it doesn't matter, because you chose not to care).
media girl
Why isn't anyone concentrating on looking for fake PAPER ballots? All I needed to provide when I showed up to vote was:
My Street Name
My House Number
My Name
THAT'S IT! NO ID! NOTHING!
I'm glad I happened to be the first one to show up and give my name today, but who's to prevent anybody from showing up and pretending to be somebody they're not? You could have a whole army of people who file their absentee ballots, and then show up and give somebody else's name and address and file their vote for them (names and addresses from a rival political party supporting group, for example).
Moderators: The Dupe is because I hit submit before I added my html tags. Sorry amigos.
.. 5.7 billion people in the world. ... and on and on.
One half trillion dollars will be spent in Iraq according to the Congressional Budget Office. Researchers at Johns Hopkins University estimate we have 100,000 dead Iraqis on our hands. 16.7% of our soldiers will bare this incredible burden in psych wards according to The New England Journal of Medicine, assuming theyre not dead. And today, 1,122 Americans will not vote because they couldnt escape the American torture chamber that is Iraq. Tomorrow a few more will die and several more will be added to the 7,532 people that were serious injured in Iraq, so do not forget this when you vote.
Kerry's not my favorite, but today he represents everything the republican party would offer traditionally and more!
(1) He's fiscally conservative
(2) He's socially liberal (no bigotry here!)
(3) He's environmentally friendly
(4) His foreign policy acknowledges the other
(5) He's actually aware of national security
Now, let the flame war begin!
Extraordinary Vacations. Exceptional Prices
That's very interesting considering the lists released by the Clinton administration don't even show Arafat as ever having stayed at the White House. For reference:
First term list of guests
Guests from 1999 through August 2000 (you'll have to click the link in the article to see the list)
Your source to back your claim?
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Also, if you haven't noticed, the Slashdot poll shows once and for all where Slashdot readers fall on the election.
Not if you don't include the third-party candidates who have a mathematical chance of winning the electoral vote. How hard would that have been?
I'm not the biggest fan of John Kerry, but even I wouldn't wish a LANDSLIDE on him...
www.clarke.ca
There should be a lot of traffic. This is perhaps the most important election of the current young digerati generation (hate that word, but it fits).
As an aside, I saw something fairly poignant today. I came into the World Trade Center site via the PATH, which I do everyday. There's always visitors (never understood the morbid fascination of looking at the hole; you get a very good view from the PATH train). What was different this morning was where they were standing.
There are photograph placards all along the fence, displaying the WTC at various stages of development, the tribute in light, etc. Typically people walk from placard to placard, take pictures, etc. One placard shows the destruction on 9-11-01 (dust clouds, the famous picture of the firemen at the cementary across the street, etc). For whatever reason, there were a ton of people just staring at that one placard. Noone demonstrating, saying anything, but just staring and thinking.
Slashdot is slashdotted, so I can't tell if this was posted correctly before:
Facts you should know before you vote:
If you truly love your country, you will not just enjoy the advantages, you will be there for your country when there are problems.
100 Facts and 1 Opinion -- The Non-Arguable Case Against the Bush Administration
See The CIA trained Osama bin Laden and other Arabs in the techniques of terrorism.
Government data compares Democrat and Republican economics.
Most media exists to make money. Advertisers are understandably careful not to alienate anyone. It is not possible to develop an accurate opinion of government activities only by listening to the carefully crafted phrases from media employees who would lose their jobs if they seemed to indicate a preference for one policy over another. Books are the major media that are not ad-supported. Here are reviews of 3 movies and 35 books that discuss the corruption of the Bush administration: Unprecedented Corruption: A guide to conflict of interest in the U.S. government.
Bush's education improvements were at least partly fraud.
I recommend a new book, The Family: The Real Story of the Bush Dynasty. Don't expect any author to be perfect. However, this book is an excellent overview of the Bush family, and the best book by this author. Here is a quote which shows just one more fact about the chronic lying of George Herbert Walker Bush and his son George W. Bush: "The official family tree provided by the Bush archivists does not include the two mentally retarded daughters of John M. Walker, and lists only two of James Smith Bush's wives, not all four of them; one of Ray Walker's two wives is omitted, and George Herbert Walker III is listed with only two, instead of three, wives."
Before, Saddam was killing. Now, the U.S. government is killing and destabilizing, and you pay. Improvement?
15 of the nineteen 9/11 attackers were Saudis. Many don't like the U.S. Gov. influence on their country.
Did you see the network footage of George W. Bush holding hands with a Saudi man the Bush family knows as "Bandar Bush"? Since it was Saudis who attacked on 9/11, why did Bush invade Iraq? Was it a smokescreen to get attention away from the Saudis?
Bush borrows money to kill Iraqis. 140 billion borrowed. With interest, you pay 200 billion. When Saudis attack, invade Iraq?
Is Bush drinking NOW?
George W. Bush's brother was shown in a lawsuit deposition on 20/20 talking about his prostitutes and using government influence to make money. Family values? Neil Bush is different from other relatives of presidents like Billy Carter; he is heavily involved with government corruption and he does his corruption with the help of his family.
The U.S. government has fought 24 wars since World War II. The system of violence works by creating fear so rich people can profit.
Is it possible that Slashdot is being "Yahoo-ed"? It is one of the first links in a "Top Story" on Yahoo's front page:
Your Own Election Night Newsroom
- Tony
The local news radio KYW1060 is running a story that says that people are confusing the votes counter with the maintenance counter.
Right, he's governor of New York, so he must be a Democrat if Republican votes don't count.
the way I see it, I'm not voting for a governor of New York. Why should I be lumped in together with the others voting here? I'm not voting with issues like Upstate vs NYC development or Thruway upkeep on my mind. I'm voting with things like Stem Cell research, Iraqi Policy, and national economy in mind.
when you get to the votes that COUNT, mine is gone. My vote is thrown away in an unnecessary granularity switch.
Really? Looks a little different here. I see an awful lot of reports of Republican shenanigans on that list.
Show up, get your ballot, and drop it - unmarked (except for your local issues which you have no right to ignore) - into the box. That says that you're a voter, but you're unhappy with your choices. On the other hand, refusing to vote just makes you sound like a bitter slacker who can't be bothered to get off his butt to make his voice heard.
Politicians are acutely aware of voting results, and they'll do what they can to sway voters to their side (even if that means, shock and horror!, adopting some of the ideas popular among those people). How much do you think they'll change to pick up the "uninterested vote"? None at all.
If you're happy with the choices, then vote. If you're not happy, then you especially need to vote. Don't let yourself be counted among those too ignorant to care!
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
So, the democrats have had dibs on color for a long time.
I think Eminem's new video, "Mosh" is one of the best constructed political anthem's I've heard for our time. Watch it here.
Some disclaimers: It's Eminem, and it's uh, kind of anti-Bush. Whatever you think about either, I still think it's worth watching.
http://www.talknerdy.org
Also, if you haven't noticed, the Slashdot poll shows once and for all where Slashdot readers fall on the election.
If that's the case, it appears to be a direct contradiction of the first poll yesterday where the majority of slashdot readers felt they were better off now than they were 4 years ago. If most slashdot readers feel they are better off, why do 42% of them want a change in the white house?
It really makes me wonder if people are just voting for Kerry because it's the hip and cool thing to do. Hey, if P-Ditty, Bruce Spingsteen, Michael Moore, and probably the rest of Hollywood are endorsing Kerry, why shouldn't I...right?
eMelody Web Directory add your site today!
This was my first time voting and I have only one suggestion so far: put normal people in charge of voter verification. This morning I spent quite some time waiting in line because the lady who was supposed to verify voters did not speak English and was half-dead. Apparently she was deaf and/or stupid as well because everybody had to shout their address at least three times in order for her to understand it.
Fortunately, that was the only negative thing about my experience. Overall everything went smooth and without any problems.
If you intend to cast a paper ballot today, please be ready for an adventure. This morning in Santa Clara, Vickie and I signed in the way we always do and requested paper ballots. Hilarity ensued: attempting to vote on paper caused a flurry of activity: oh-no-you're-not, you-have-to-vote-with-the-machine, what's-your-major-malfunction-mister, and other clucking noises. (Cory Doctorow had something about this in BoingBoing on October 18th, which was dead on.)
There was no "votamatic" machine for paper ballots any longer; we had to enter a plain brown cardboard voting station that looked exactly like a refrigerator carton and mark our ballots with a pen. (Pen not supplied; bring your own.) I was first in line; after marking my ballot I approached the desk and asked the Nice Lady on the end if I should put it into the box. She nodded and smiled at me, so in it went.
Then I turned to look at Vickie and the rest of the line and noticed they all had big pink envelopes to put their ballots into when they were done. A tiny peanut-sized bulb flickered to life inside my brain. I went to the stack and checked, and sure enough: the big pink envelope said PROVISIONAL BALLOT on it. It had several choices to check: you had no ID, you had moved after the registration deadline, or were Otherwise Unclean. The Other Nice Lady--the one who had her act together--was making everybody who voted on paper seal it inside the provisional ballot envelope, even though there was no "I HAVE BEEN REGISTERED VOTER IN THIS PRECINCT SINCE 1987 AND I AM CHOOSING TO VOTE ON PAPER DAMMIT" box to check.
Further hilarity ensued: Vickie is a lawyer with a long history of political activism, so there was much back-and-forth between her and the Other Nice Lady, who then got on the phone with Headquarters and came back with the following ruling: we were all to mark our paper ballots, seal them in pink envelopes, and don't worry about filling out our names and addresses on the envelopes. Somehow--the nebulous theory goes--the election workers will be able to magically detect the paper ballots filled out by properly identified voters and pull them out to be counted tonight.
We left the station feeling VERY unsure that our votes would be counted.
If I was a busy election worker tonight, I'd just grab all those pink envelopes and heave them into the Provisional stack. And if I was the guy at the Provisional Counting Station, I'd have to seriously consider trashing all those envelopes without names and addresses filled in on the form on the outside. That's the point of a provisional ballot envelope, after all: to make it possible for them to verify your right to vote.
...this is the official on-topic place for all Slashdot readers to discuss the election itself.
Kindof like a "free-speech zone". Damn that phrase cracks me up.
In Soviet America the banks rob you!
I wonder whether America finally is able to perform a simple vote -- something which is not that very complicated, as even european countries are able to do. Landing on the moon seems to be a walk in the park comparing to presidential elections in America. 2000's lesson learned? We'll see and probably laugh.
Why on earth are the very same people, who are particularly pecky regarding their freedom of speech act, so very unconcerned facing institutional fraud?
Wait a minute... something just occurred to me!
If some insidious government officials were to approve the installation an easily-corruptible voting system in order to co-opt the election according to their agenda, and if the mass media then convinced the masses that the election is really close and could go either way, then it wouldn't be quite so transparent when the election was rigged in favor of one candidate!
Holy crap!
Perhaps exactly what we need is someone who hasn't made a career out of lying. All the complaints we hear about politicians are about how they lie and cheat and make claims that aren't true or promises that don't come to pass. Perhaps a normal citizen who has never been corrupted by politics would be exactly what we'd need to get this country going. Whether or not that's Badnarik specifically is another issue, but having someone who isn't a political veteran is not necessarily a bad thing.
Parties and the Electoral College were intended to be mechanisms for the election of government officials. They were never intended to run the country. Most americans don't know that senators and congress(wo)men sit in two seperate groups according to who they party with. What they SHOULD be doing is sitting with the other REPRESENTATIVES of their own state. They are suppossed to represent the intrests of their constituency, not a group run by greed for power. Look at what a waste we've created. Despite the low opinion of politicians held by most people, those at the top actually have pretty good credentials and are well above average in intelligence. Yet they spend 90% of their considerable influence trying to tear down the other half of our government. This is idiocy. Political party affiliations should be banned from all government offices.
On the one hand you take life too seriously, and on the other, you do not take playful existence seriously enough. Seth
URLs or IP addresses? :-)
Could be fun to hack them
Let's see...
The President lied about Iraq.
Massive invasion of Iraq, illegal.
No WMDs. None since 1991.
100000 Iraqies dead, women and children mostly.
Over 1000 US Troops dead and toll is rising.
US torturing civilians (for none existant WMDs?)
Usama Bin Laden still around... laughing.
And that's just the plain facts. It amazes we who live outside the USA Americans haven't impeached a president who's obviously insane.
I thought this webpage was amusing.
http://www.oldamericancentury.org/14pts. htm
Since the Bush family had placed it's Chosen One in the White House, with his pro-fundementalist anti-humanist bible belt supporters and greedy corporate rapists, America has fallen into the worst state of economic depression, fear, war mongering, racism, and down right fascism since the Civil War.
Once the Bush Junte had it's "Pearl Harbour" they immediately ignored any terrorist threat that might exist (gotta wonder why) in favour of a cartoon war against an "Axis of Evil".
America is lead by a Marvel comicbook character. And Americans wonder why the rest of the world has been refering to GWB as a "moron" (and I'm quoting statesmen before Sept 11/2001).
Instead of doing what would have been logical, having the CIA go get those terrorists (that's why the CIA exists after all), America attacked a nation it already controled! Iraq.
Why?
Well, if you ask certain Americans they tell you that Saddam was a threat to the USA. Well, he wasn't. Not even the White House thought he was a few months before 9/11. So why did America invade Iraq?
And now, they tell me it doesn't matter that the President of the USA lied to Congress to get war powers.
Yeaaaaaa... Americans are finding that it's now "legal" to be jailed without any representation, your home can be searched without a warrent, poverty groups have already been raided and any dissent is met with Gestapo like tactics - the Republican Convention in NY was a disgusting display of an arrogant disregard of peoples rights and freedoms.
The media is now owned by only three large Corporations who whole heartily support the Bush WH. Bush gives them everything they want after all and Corporations don't give a rats ass about laws, rights, or people. Never did. Worse, media has created an ongoing propoganda campaign in favour of the Bush Junte by simply ignoring stories the Bush White House would find embarrassing and, far more telling, would put GWB in jail. Recently, the Bush election camp has declared war on the New York Times in a smear reminisant of the attacks Micheal Moore faces for his documentary. A documentary that is obviously true to eveyone BUT Americans because the rest of the world heard about these things years before. Micheal Moore didn't tell the world anything different, he was telling AMERICANS.
You have to wonder about a nation that goes to war and doesn't care to even justify it. Sorta like Hitler attacking Poland because, as Hitler said, Poland was a threat to the Fatherland. Must have been the cream cakes?
Yet, on the US TV transmitions there is still nothing about what is truely going on. The rest of the world is not living in the bubble of American media (including me) where the facts about America ignoring the source of the Terrorists (Saudi Arabia), where the money for 9/11 came from (Saudi Arabia), and who is responsible (Saudi Arabia again) simply isn't discussed! WTF! And who in the USA has the closest connections to Saudi resident Usama Bin Laden?
The Bush Family.
Now, if that is so why isn't Usama in a jail getting his testies fried right now? Hm? The first thing a cop would do when faced with a murder is talk to everyone involved. The Bush WH packed the entire Bin Laden family in the USA onto a plane the day after 9/11 and sent them home, without interrogation.
Today, we hear the news about how the USA can't even count votes. Is America retarded? Well, one might think so if one wasn't
Random 500 and 503 errors notwithstanding, I don't know about that, in a sense. Regardless of who's elected today, the country will continue to muddle through. We always have before, and I don't sense a sea change in that respect - there is a fairly sizeable contingent of folks in this country who aren't quaking in their boots at the thought of either man inhabiting the White House, something that partisans on both sides tend to forget in their relentless drive to demonize the other fellow.
For whatever reason, there were a ton of people just staring at that one placard. Noone demonstrating, saying anything, but just staring and thinking.
Wow. Wish I was there.
Stay safe.
ABSURDITY, n.: A statement or belief manifestly inconsistent with one's own opinion.
But I keep getting:
503 Service Unavailable
The service is not available. Please try again later.
One of the "bush" tactics to keep "undesirables" from voting..... paaah.!
gus
.. if only.
what really annoys me is that you see a million people stating why they are voting AGAINST Bush, but hardly a soul among them can figure out why they are voting FOR Kerry...
that says it all if you ask me. the morons of the world are being led around by wonderful shmucks like Michael Moore.
yayy!
"I think, therefore I get paid."
Party representatives are allowed to touch the Ballots???
Here in Canada, the only people allowed to touch the Ballots are the Deputy Returning Officer (who is sworn to be non-partisan) and the Voter. The DRO isn't allowed to touch the voter list, that's the Poll Clerk's job.
The scrutineers and the candidate's representative (who oversees the scrutineers for their party) aren't allowed to touch anything. They also aren't allowed to talk about politics or have any signs or material which might identify their party etc. asside from their scrutineer badge (which has their name and party).
The election before last, I went up to the table to vote and the Poll Clerk, DRO, and scrutineer were telling me who to vote for. They turned absolutely white when right after putting my ballot in the box I walked over to the candidate's rep (for a different party) handed him my paperwork and got my scrutineer badge. They stopped telling people how to vote after that (I was assigned to their table).
Okay -- we vote, someone wins and everyone is happy - right? NO. The biggest issue facing America in this election is that most of the power in the US is tied to the Congress and States and all the focus is on the President. The Congress and States are controlled via Gerrymandering and this allows a constant bait and swtich. All the focus is on the President and the nuts and bolts are controlled by low turnout local elections that are controlled more and more by the far edges of the political spectrum
That's why I'm voting for Nader again.
paintball
Yeah, the US should outsource the counting of its votes to India.
Haha only serious, the US is supposed to be the world leader (and nowadays, "spreader") of democracy, but its election is as (in/un/non-) credible as ones which take place in evil dictatorships (like the former Iraq).
What time is it/will be over there? Check with my iPhone app!
When was the last time a GOP took NY for the presidential election? When was the last time they were even within 20%?
I would love for my country to return to these things, but we're being forced to choose between a douche and a turd sandwich.
Disconnect your television. Do your own research. Draw your own conclusions. They're probably lying. Don't be a sheep.
1. Partisan politics aside, how can such an inane comment get modded +5? Once you're able to actually decipher the grammar and spelling (hella?! Don't they make lights?), you realize that absolutely nothing was said.
2. Why is it that 90 percent of people who "support" Kerry cite their primary reason for their support as "I don't like Bush"? Whatever happened to a candidate running on their OWN record? What is it about KERRY that you DO support? Do you even know? Bush isn't above reproach here either, by any means. Thanks to Cheney, I'd be scared to vote for Kerry otherwise we could have terrorists overrunning our country. The whole thing just makes me sad and tired. If you're going to exercise your "right" to vote, please at least do so with some modicum of information beyond a vague yet undefined antipathy towards the current president. BTW Adian, this isn't all directed at you personally but more at the attitude in general so many people hold.
3. This, as I see it, is one of the fundamental flaws of Democracy, or at least Democracy as Americans define it. We have a bunch of people who know very little about the issues or the candidates making decisions about who will become the next president. As long as you're an American, 18+ and not a felon, you get to vote. That's great, but as I alluded above, if you're going to make the effort to vote, perhaps it's worth making the effort to place an INFORMED vote.
Disclaimer: As you may notice from my .sig, I'm a Canadian, yes. So I can't vote in this election. I've lived in the US now for 8+ years and I feel in many ways like this is "my" country. Which is why I feel so much frustration about what I see around me. Finally, for the record, between Bush & Kerry I'd vote for Bush every time. However, between all the options, I'm pretty sure if I could vote, I'd vote for neither. There has to be a better candidate on the ballot SOMEWHERE. However, since I can't vote anyway I haven't taken the time to look.
www.clarke.ca
Did you go Rick Boucher's way? Great tech advocate, that guy....
Comparing it to Windows will be a moot point, since El Dorado is going to have a 40% larger code base than XP.
Using euphemisms and stuff are for wussies, tell us how you really feel
Help fight continental drift.
I was there at 7:30AM. There was a short ten minute line at my polling place in Sacramento. I had to show ID as I was a first time registrant in Sacramento County. (I wonder if my wife and I are considered first time voters, for reporting purposes?)
Anyway, we spent an hour last night going through each balot measure and I created a "cheat-sheet" in Excel. (How geek is that?)
I must say, I'm nervous on how it is all going to turn out. At least I don't wait as long as some others, many polls close at 4PM PST.
what? what I thought we were in the trust tree in the nest, were we not?
(1) He's also fiscally liberal!
Something for everyone.
Vote change, vote Libertarian
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
If it comes down to lawyers - and it looks likely - expect to see the cases appealed to the Supreme Court regardless of who wins in the lower courts. And when it gets there, it's going to be met by a court short a Justice - Rehnquist is going to be out indefinitely due to recent chemo and radiation for his thyroid cancer. So there's a good chance of a split court 4-4 on the decision.
Anyone think the congress could choose Kerry?
"A witty saying proves nothing." ~Voltaire
"d'Oh!" ~Homer
Any idea why?
I've seen some OP-ED stuff that talked about states deciding to go the winner-take-all route to increase their own "importance" or to get more "attention" from candidates. But I think history shows that election-year attention does not translate to legislative attention in any meaningful way. IMHO, proportional vote allocation more accurately represents the will of the people, which is what the Electoral College is supposed to do in the first place.
I am not your blowing wind, I am the lightning.
But I decided I didn't want to vote for a moron.
paintball
I posted this in response to someone else's Livejournal comment about being a "conscientious objector" to the voting process, but I thought it was appropriate here:
--> 1) NOT voting only gives them the (CORRECT!) impression that they can get away with whatever they want. Because you ARE still paying their taxes and probably obeying whatever crazy laws they pass. Unless you change citizenship and move.
If you want to protest GO vote and don't vote for those candidates. Or even ANY candidates. No ballot only tells them (CORRECTLY) that you don't care enough about this country or our lives or even your life to show up. I cannot respect that.
--> 2) In the current presidential election, I think that voting out the sitting president - clearly the worst president in my lifetime, and the most boldfaced liar I've seen campaign for the presidency - is more important to me than protesting the process. (And I'm a registered Republican who liked his father) I CAN respect you disagreeing with me about that. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't vote!
--> 3) Our voting system has flaws that should be fixed. Our electoral college system is silly. Our PRIMARY system is broken and evil.
Not going to the polls is no kind of protest. A protest has to be something they give a damn about.
If you want to protest, go fill out a ballot. Vote for any third party candidate on the ballot. Or write in the Green or Libertarian presidential candidates. Or write in Alan Greenspan or Jon Stewart. Or don't make any actual votes at all, but cast the ballot. At least you're successfully sending a message, and that DOES help. (these are in the order I recommend them, but any of them are MUCH better than none) (Do at least read the referendums and vote on them. A lot of times you get a direct chance to vote for education funding.)
a) a ballot with no votes reduces their mandate - since what gets reporting is the percentage of the vote that they got. In some cases they actually can't get elected if they don't get a certain percentage of overall votes - so you'll be forcing runoffs, at least. (I believe it varies by jurisdiction and race whether this is percentage of ballots or percentage of votes cast in that race - an advantage of writing somebody, anybody, in)
This doesn't just let THEM know, it lets EVERYBODY know, because it is reported.
b) There is a lot of circular influence in American elections. I mean that people want to vote for the winner. This isn't the fault of the elections, it's the way the PEOPLE are. But that means that a vote cast against whoever wins reduces their chances of reelection, because the news does talk about how barely they won, and their opposition will too.
Furthermore, a vote cast FOR a third party increases the chances of someone voting for them in the next election. This isn't going to matter for our national presidential elections for at least a few more years - but third parties have already gained a significant foothold in local elections precisely because of this. The Greens and Libertarians seem to have been the most successful, so far. This is totally independent of the national financial mechanism for the national election.
This is the reason why I want to start a website that operates like a write-in primary for next time around... where people online vote from candidates who won't agree to run, and everybody going there agrees to write in the _same_ candidate for the races they want to protest. If half the people who wanted to protest ALL voted for Jon Stewart, THAT would be a message.
c) Even if you are going to protest and not vote in the presidential election, if you look around you'll find there are some candidates who are worth voting for. In this election in IL, O'Bama is the best example. Clearly you don't need to go to the polls for him to win. But the more tremendous his landslide is the better chance he'll have of effecting policy locally and federally, and the better chance he'll have of being president someday.
--> 4) For instance, a ballot with O'Bama and referendums marked, and the Green or Libertarian presidential candidate written in for everything else - that's a ballot I can respect, even if I disagree with you (strongly) about #2.
Looking for freelance Actionscript (Flash/Flex) or ColdFusion work and/or freelance developers. Email me, put Slashdot
Yup, I voted in Arlington VA this morning. Got in line at 6:30AM and voted around 7:45. I was an A-K.
The wait wasn't due to lack of staffing, there just were too few machines (only 5 as I recall). Perhaps if sample ballots were handed out, so that people could denote what they intended to vote rather than read/decide at the screen (for the initiatives and local stuff) it might have been speeded up slightly. But the true bottleneck was the lack of machines.
Don't blame me, I voted for Yellow.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I voted absentee this year (still registered in Oklahoma)and I was wondering what kind of machines they use to take your ballots. Last time I was in the state and voted (two years ago or more) I didn't really care so I was just wondering what they're using.
I'm just glad that Election Day is finally here. I can't wait until this is all over.
In Ohio at least, when you get to the table to get your ballot, they check off your name and next to it is your signature. You must sign and they check to see that it is your signiture. Once that is done, you can't vote again. So there is already a "challenge" inside the building. There is no need for people outside to be challenging people, especially not people who are strongly tied to a party. The real reason the Republicans want to do this is voter intimidation.
--Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
I get a card, go up to the machine and insert the card and "vote". I get to see my vote before "casting" it, after pressing "Cast Vote" I'm instructed to pull the card back out of the machine and so do so. Now I take that card to some guy and he inserts the card into a small handheld device.
At what point is my vote really cast - when I hit the "Cast Vote" button, or when the card is inserted into that handheld device? If the latter, they didn't show me what the device said. Was my vote really counted? I have no idea.
--- What?
Being a numeraholic, it's been great following all the different tracking sites. And it was interesting to discover that electoral-vote.com is the work of a relatively well-known geek. Now all of America is asking "What's a flash crowd?" :-)
But is the value of the polls and the tracking sites much more than their entertainment value? What real difference would it have made if all the numbers had just been made up? And is the Electoral College a serious, democratic way of electing the leader of the free world? Especially in a country where the real election is run so incompetently that it isn't much more reliable than the opinion polls...
To show you what I mean, I've made a kind of parody of the whole thing at http://www.geocities.com/dadge.geo/ElecColl.htm. What do you think?
Have a fun evening, Adrian
Drill baby drill - on Mars
Yes for the votes to be distributed makes a ton of sense, but ONLY if it is done Nationwide. Otherwise a state just ends up reducing it's importance in the national race.
Yet another reason why the electoral college sucks.
Introducing Microsoft Vacuum 1.0 The first Microsoft product that doesn't suck.
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=TheCageBus hKerry
p e% 3Amovies%20AND%20collection%3Aelection_2004&sort=- %2Fmetadata%2Fpublicdate
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=mediaty
~hylas
I went to watch the poll opening procedures for a class at Stanford, and I wasn't very impressed. The DREs were left sitting out in an unlocked room overnight where someone could easily tamper with them. Even just removing the seals could seriously delay voting at that location. The poll workers also made some mistakes when they were setting up the machines, such as not resealing the button that can close the polls on a machine and not writing down the serial number of the seal on each machine. This of course doesn't prove that DREs are a bad form of technology, but it does show that it would not be at all hard to shut down a polling place temporarily. Not to mention that some requirements were not met.
ditto 1980.
In 1988 Bush got 48% of the vote.
In 1992 he got 28.8, still with 20% of Clinton's 47%.
So, 20 and 12 years ago are the answers to your questions, you were probably too young to vote then.
I didn't remember these, there are things called search engines that let you find this kind of cool information.
We wouldn't want to make sure people casting ballots are eligible to vote!
It's raining in Ohio. All day. Statewide. So, the voter turnout among union
workers will be pathetic, and Ohio is pretty much a lock for Bush, if past
election turnouts in the rain are any indication.
That leaves Pennsylvania and Florida: Kerry needs them both; Bush needs one
or the other of them. That's my analysis.
Cut that out, or I will ship you to Norilsk in a box.
I've just got one question to the USians on here:
What's wrong with making crosses on a simple sheet of paper? I mean the way that 99% of the civilized world do their elections? Why is it that US insists on playing alpha-tester with all kinds of wacky new election methods, even after the last sheep farmer in south-east Wisconsin has learnt that they're more trouble than they're worth?
Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
This morning, I voted with a pen-and-paper optical scan sheet. Unambiguous, easy, but not particularly fast. I'd rather have unambiguous than fast, however. No default values on the back of my form to worry about and my pen didn't crash, so I'd call my experience a success.
One thing I would wish for, however, is better coverage of the canidates in our newspapers. I had to leave a few races blank, because I had absolutely no clue who the people were. In other places I've lived, I grew used to opening the paper to figure out the more obscure races...no such luck this time.
-- "Makes Little Debbie look like a pile of puke!" - Moe Szyslak
On my registration form, I listed a mailing address that differed from that of my residence. I received my voter registration card in the mail, which gave me a polling place a few blocks from my listed residence. The card includes a note saying that since I'm a late registrant, I will not be receiving a sample ballot. No big deal. My mind is made up for the presidency, and I've done my homework regarding the local ballot measures. I'm also not a Florida resident, so I presumed I could figure out the ballot without seeing a sample. (Ok, cheap shot.)
Lo and behold, though, yesterday I receive a sample ballot after all. Complete with a polling place listed on the back. Only trouble is, it differs from the one on my voter registration card. It's not even in the same county. The local measures were the wrong ones, and there was a spot for Mayor of a town I don't even live in. Confusion arises.
So I go down to polling place #1. This is where I'm a resident, and as I understand it, that's the relevant issue at hand. I could theoretically have had them mail be a ballot overseas, if my legal residence was here in Northern California. I stood in line for quite a while, actually.. which was good to see. I finally get to the front of the line, and there's 3 poll workers doing their thing. I mention the ambiguity to them, and the 3 poll workers check their roll call sheets, or whatever the appropriate term is. Turns out I'm on only one of these 3, theoretically identical roll call sheets. Poll worker #3, who doesn't look like he's even old enough to vote, reasons, 'Well, you're on /my/ sheet, so you must be in the right place.' Unconvinced, I give them the ol' 'BBL' and drive down the road to polling place #2.
Again, I wait in a rather long line, and when I arrive at the front, it turns out I'm on all of the roll call sheets there, thus calling our pimply-faced friend's judgement into question.
So as I type, I'm trying to get through to the voter registrar's office, to see about clearing this up. Thus far, all I've received is the message, 'We're sorry, all of our representatives are helping other voters, please hold..' yada yada. Followed by 15 minutes of dead air. Followed by a dialtone. Hopefully, the registrar's office is just busy, and this isn't a ${Party} conspiracy to discount my vote. ;)
What concerns me most about this though, is that I just IMed a friend telling them what was going on, and she mentioned that several people at her job are going through the same thing....
Hopefully this will straighten itself out. Anyone have any other brilliant suggestions besides the registrar's office, and possibly that 866 number that keeps getting mentioned?
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine...
Hey
/.'ers think will happen 4 years from now, in case either candidate wins?
I just want to know what
Bush wins.
Agh. A stacked supreme court, war in Iran, Syria, and (remote) north korea, etc. etc., more bad karma, and a possible backlash at the polls.
Kerry wins
Agh. Failure to extract cleanly from Iraq, more casualties, intense scrutiny from republicans a la Clinton, economy going down simply because oil is running out, and a possible backlash at the polls.
Ok, that's really very silly. My real point is, does it seem to anyone else that we are seeing a see-saw effect here - it's just getting worse and worse with both sides becoming more and more polarised and angry about the other. I have never seen such an acrimonious election campaign.
It just seems to be whiplashing out of control.
(glum)
Tequila - drink of the gods.
Really, in the end that's what voters are doing, choosing the person who disagrees least with what we believe. If you haven't voted yet, I urge you to consider all the options before making your vote. Be informed. Discover that the two options you're considering start to only look like one when you see the spectrum of possibility before you. There ARE alternatives out there beyond the two you hear about on NPR and CNN. Some of them, to be sure, are crackpots, but nobody in power (read: Democrats and Republicans) have any real incentive to change as long as nobody is providing a serious threat to their authority.
I belive our definitions of "left" and "right" have become very narrow and are more different shades of "centrist". IF this is truly where you stand, good for you, and please vote there. If you don't identify with either mainline party or their candidates, please find a party you can support, and get involved. If not for this election, then at least for the next one.
www.clarke.ca
But maybe that's exactly what you should do - get a bunch of your buddies and vote 10 times each, but for Nader or someone who isn't going to win.
At the end of the day, they'll know they have more votes than they have people who checked in to vote, won't know which votes are "extra", and will be forced to overhaul the system for next time.
It just blows my mind that people designing systems like this can be so fundamentally stupid.
paintball
With all this new eVoting crap they at least better get the final vote quickly! theres even less point in using these machines if they can't even satisfy my urge for instant data! therefore i think people should demand to know all results cast electronically within 1 minute of them closing or the state should get rid of the machines this week. Ah damnit!! i cant take this anymore! Im supposed to be revising! just give me the damn result ahHHH!!!
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
Don't forget to vote, and don't forget to wear your "I Voted" sticker on your website.
For all of you out there who voted today, put this sticker on your personal homepage, your blog, your email, anything. Just be proud that we can all vote, and we can all change this country if we wanted to.
http://www.majordojo.com/archives/000497.php
^byrne :/
So, wait... having "expertise" or past experience in being a politician is a good thing? If we want a change, then why [informally] require that people have been part of the system as it is now?
Only an incumbent President has "experience" in being *the* president. Does it make sense to require that people have experience to get elected? (Is this not an inherent catch-22?) Does it not "breed" career politicians---the worst kind?
Imagine this: what if all of the people who were deemed as successful (by some independent crieteria, such as income, no/little time on welfare, moderate level of education, etc.) were put into a lottery and then elected to a 2-year term as US President?
It would, over time if not immediately, get us an african-american president, a female president, etc. It would give us a diversity of opinion and background, and would definitely provide new insight, much different than that of career politicians. This person would have a panel of assistants / advisors so that we did not nuke the rest of the world on day 1, and there would have to be some sort of psychiatric evaluation...
Thoughts?
Voting against, nor for. I remember a lot of Gore supporters saying that in 2000, also.
You have to wonder, Why don't Democrats get more involved in the primary process and get candidates nominated whom they can really throw their support behind? They are always offering up these candidates that nobody really wants (Mondale, Dukakis, Gore, Kerry). Clinton seems to have been the exception in the last 30 years.
Whoever Wins the White House in 2004, Loses ... Tomorrow, as everybody will rush to vote, the fate of America will be moving a step further toward the red-ink-abyss. Presidential speeches ignored impending U.S. debt disaster. No mention of fiscal gap estimated as high as $72 trillion. There Are A number Of Unexploded Bombs Hidden In The U.S. Economy says UPI economist Martin Hutchinson Washington Sep. 6... King Kong Debt Meets Middle Class Life warned Stacy A. Teicher | at the CS Monitor last August... Who Broke The US Economy? It Was The Democrats And The Republicans revealed J. Crudele from the NYPOST a while back...What If US Debts Are Unloaded Abruptly In A Deliberate Attempt To Destroy The American Economy? : see http://www,moneyfiles.org/usbust.html
Those who want Bush/Kerry are going to be serious shocked. Ir just is a matter of time before the music stops. Fasten your seat belts!
I read with a great interest the posting located at: http://science.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=120075 &cid=10123610
Returning to the gold standard is ideologically appealing to a certain type of person, but it's totally impractical. There's just not enough gold, and new gold isn't being mined fast enough to keep up with the creation of other types of wealth. There are three possible outcomes I can think of if we tried to put the dollar back on a gold standard...
Such a comment is ludicrous. Returning to the gold standard too costly? Really? One way or another, this option will be seen as the ONLY solution. And here is why... Obviously central banking is a complete failure. But this should come as no surprise in the end. It is what happens when one agrees with the Gov't managing blank checks and credit cards. Hence allowing the lawmakers print money out of thin air. Let's take a closer look at this con-game formula that is a Fiat Money.
India and China look like Argentina before it crashed - both booms are heavy lending induced. The Euro is a disaster, most of the countries within the European union have serious deficits while lending has increased by more than 100% last year. Japan continues to battle deflation, interest rates are still near the benchmark "zero", despite all the monetary stimulus and desperately buying US dollars to keep the yen down, weaker than the dollar.
Do you really think foreign central banks are going to continue to finance such a black hole?
Yes, black hole! Right now, the US credit bubble is so monstrous that very few American citizens know the truth. How much would you ask? $280,000 debt per citizen, kids included!!!
So what does this mean? Are the world bankers and lawmakers stupid or do they have a plan? All I can say is thank you to Keynes, the architect of our current monetary system.
But here is what Keynes said in a moment of humility: "In the long run, we are all dead..... "By a continuous process of inflation, governments can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens. By this method, they not only confiscate, but they confiscate arbitrarily; and while the process impoverishes many, it actually enriches some.... The process engages all of the hidden forces of economic law on the side of destruction, and does it in a manner that not one man in a million can diagnose." - Keynes Economic Consequences of the Peace, 1920 "
ROACH, in his latest article said today: this charade should come to an end after tomorrow. Well maybe not tomorrow but somewhere in 2005.
Are you ready for a global crash? The dollar collapse will ripple through the entire financial system. And a global great deflati
Contradictions do not exist. Whenever you think you are facing a contradiction, check your premises -- A. Rand
In addition, the Hindi news channel was carrying a very detailed analysis of the two candidates. Also, they had a pannel of people give their opinion about what the effects of either candidates foreign policies would be on India. I'd guess that most nation's media are carrying similar analysis and what-is-in-store for me analysis.
I have never seen so many people at the polls. It's a good thing, everyone who is qualified should vote.
If you haven't voted, please vote for the candidate you like best. Don't fall for the "throwing your vote away" and "lesser of two evils" bullshit. I do not like Bush, I do not like Kerry - why should I vote for someone I don't like? That is literally throwing my vote away.
I voted this morning, for the candidate I like best (Badnarik), the one with whom I agreed on the most issues. My candidate won't win, but I gave him what support I could.
And yes, I did vote Libertarian for House of Representatives (Austin Lett, NJ 11th district). Nothing really wrong with the incumbant Republican, but I like to stir the pot sometimes.
In my local races (Freeholders, Sheriff, etc), there were only Republican incumbants on the ballot. There weren't even any Democrats, let alone alternate parties!
Sorry, I don't have any scandals to report. We had the same touchscreen systems that have been in use for a few years now (don't know who makes them). I've never heard of any issues with them.
If God had meant for man to see the sunrise, He would have scheduled it later in the day.
Here you go:
CowboyNeal for President
And if you are too cheap to buy the shirt, you can just make your own with my PNG:
http://dodgeit.com/temp/cn.png
Feel free to do whatever you like with my "design"
slashsearch.org - slashdot search. powered by google.
"Also, if you haven't noticed, the Slashdot poll shows once and for all where Slashdot readers fall on the election." Anyone who didn't notice prior to this poll that Slashdot is a haven for liberals is blind. I'm still trying to figure out how so many ostensibly intelligent tech people went so wrong. I suppose ostensibly is the key word there.
Only one thing matters:
Tax Cuts.
--
"What do you want me to do? Whack a guy? Off a guy? Whack off a guy? Cause I'm married."
I agree with the sentiment of your post, I'll be real happy if Bush loses too but lets not kid ourselves about Kerry.
... and on and on."
Kerry voted for and to this day still endorses the idea of invading Iraq and taking down Saddam. Voting for invading Iraq was the politically correct thing to do when it came up for a vote and Kerry ALWAYS adopts the politicly popular position. He is compelled to stay the course on Iraq or risk looking "weak" or like he likes Saddam. If you watch Kerry's ads all he says on Iraq is it was "a war poorly planned". That means Kerry is staying in Iraq he is just planning it better.
So, Kerry's only difference with Bush is he is quibbling about the details about how he actually did it. Most of it really is Monday morning quarterbacking and trying to find a position where he can look like he's different from Bush but doesn't look weak on national security. He was antiwar during the primaries because he needed to be to beat Dean. Now he is not really opposed to the war in Iraq again since he is trying to get the swing voter vote, many of whom support the Iraq war.
Fact is he is unlikely to pull out troops anytime soon. So chances are they will keep dieing at the same rate under Kerry as Bush, no difference. Kerry wants to add 2 divisions to the army which is only necessary if he is planning to use them for something, presumably continued occupation of Iraq. Two divisions aren't going to help you track down Bin Laden if you don't know where he is.
Kerry's big solution to Iraq is to work with our former allies and get them to shoulder the burden. Well none of them will shoulder that burden or send troops in to the quagmire whether Bush asks or Kerry asks. The U.S. broke it, the U.S. owns it. If Kerry were to unilaterally pull out it would quickly disintegrate in to a civil war and it would really have made everything sunk in it so far in treasure and blood a waste, and it really would make the Middle East more unstable than it was under Saddam. Saddam, if nothing else did maintain order.
"(1) He's fiscally conservative"
Maybe he is, maybe he isn't. All politicians say they are when they are trying to get elected and when they don't have power. Very few of them really are when they have blank checks to fill in.
Kerry is inheriting a fiscal mess and he does have a ton of new spending he wants to do and I really doubt he is going to balance the budget anytime in his first term. He probably couldn't be worse than Bush and the New Republicans on fiscal policy but that isn't saying anything.
At this point if someone tells you they are fiscally conservative don't believe it until they prove it.
"(5) He's actually aware of national security
In what way? All I've heard is empty rhetoric about how is going to spend billions on homeland security, first responders, and screening cargo. Well I hate to break it to you but most money being given to first responders is being wasted so it runs counter to "fiscally conservative. Apparently how the homeland security money is spent is supposed to be secret. A fire department in Colorado used it to build a weight room, many are just using it to fill the holes in their budget and nuy new patrol cars and the like.
Believe it or not we don't really need to give every podunk fire department in the country biochem warfare gear they will never use just so our politicans can say they are making use safe. It would be nice to screen all cargo entering the country but unless you have very fast technology to do it you are going to clog ports and hurt the economy. Long Beach can barely handle the container traffic now, without checking every container.
IF you saw the full transcript of Bin Laden's tape he is taunting the U.S. that they are going to bankrupt them. They spent a half million dollars on an attack that has cost the U.S. a trillion or two now. Everytime a politician tells you they are going to win the War on Terror or make you safe by squandering billions of dollars, please don't buy in to it.
@de_machina
...would have had the poll listing the following options:
() Bush
() Kerry
() Other
() Would vote Bush if I could
() Would vote Kerry if I could
() Would vote Other if I could
That way everyone could have voiced their opinions properly. The results would have been much more interesting too...
And the even more amazing thing is... most people don't even realize that its the second time that the WTC has been attacked by the same foreign terrorists , under a Bush president. Both presidents also went directly for Saddam during their presidency.
You don't hear THAT on the news though.
There was an article on this a few days back...Andrew Tanenbaum said:
On top of this, electoral-vote.com was mentioned on the main page of slashdot.com, a hugely popular tech news site. The last time I was slashdotted, I got 700,000 hits. That incident was caused by the publication of a book emitted by a Microsoft-funded think tank in D.C. claiming that Linus Torvalds stole Linux from my earlier MINIX system. I posted a vigorous and caustic rebuttal saying that the book was utter and complete nonsense. My role was that of Linus' teacher, not his coauthor.
Maybe we DID take the blue pill. You wouldn't remember anyway.
I don't care what religion one follows, when it comes to American politics. Except when it comes to militant fundamentalists of any religion like George Bush and the "haves and have mores" that he calls his base, or Osama Bin Laden and Al Qaeda, which coincidentally translates to "the base".
Just because you can, does not mean you should.
The girlfriend finally voted after a two and a half hour wait.
While the recent appeals court decision does allow democratic and republican challangers, she didn't see any at our polling place.
So turnout around here is HUGE; perhaps even higher than the 70% expected.
I'm waiting to see if everyone votes early, thus reducing the crowding at the polls. Unless there is a crowd from the "vote often" set =p
A Human Right
Since the State of Georgia put in Diebold machines *everywhere* after the 2000 debacle, the stickers they handed out to voters had a smiling Diebold-machine-with-arms-and-legs-shaped cartoon captioned with "I Voted - Georgia Counts". Today, however, they reverted to the old "I'm a Georgia Voter"-on-top-of-a-peach stickers. Is this because they're embarrased they blew our money on insecure technology? I so wanted one of those "Georgia Counts" stickers too -- I was planning to Photoshop it into Mr. Diebold Machine throwing a ballot into the trash!
My new
One thing to remember is that the Cato Institute is a conservative "thinktank," as noted here at the Fairness & Accuracy In Reporting Site, and indicated by the referenced statement above.
Typically, conservative voters always go vote, and vote replublican regardless of how informed they are; they are creatures of habit. Therefore, if the other "non-informed" voters do not vote, then the tendency will be toward the conservative candidates.
Also interesting to note is the parent's comment, "Ignorance is rampant and I would rather have an intelligent informed nation choosing their leader based on facts, logic, and rationale rather than emotional responses, self-interest, and personality marketing/propoganda." Think about it.
"Teleporting Rodents with D-Cell Battery Displacement" theory -- IgnoramusMaximus (692000)
Sadly, the WINVote UI hase some horrible user interface design flaws:
... it's A GIGANTIC BUTTON.
1. They use RED to mark choices. Red means "stop", green means "go".
2. All the buttons are flat! You can't tell the difference between a button and a text box. No raised edges. Nothing that looks like a button, just big, colored squares on the screen.
3. To make a choice, you touch an EMPTY AREA at the top-right corner of the person's name or the admendment language. There are NO BUTTONS in this area. There are NO INPUT BOXES. There is nothing at all to indicate that you are supposed to touch this square of white.
4. What buttons there are, are are different sizes. The last button is a 640 x 480 square of color with the word, "VOTE" centered in the middle of the screen in 128pt type! I kid you not. What, is that supposed to be a Title? A Message? Oh, no, wait
*Sigh* Sad, so sad.
"We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
Over at Technorati we are counting blogged votes by vote links - explict rel="vote-for" or rel="vote-against" links.
Blog your vote today.
Kerry is not:
1. fiscally conservative? He's a Massachusets liberal, that's an oxymoron.
2. Yes, he's socially liberal. In fact he's a socialist. You think that someone that is as rich as he is can understand the needs of the poor? Maybe, but he'll be willing to pay for that on the backs of the middle class not by eliminating the loopholes that the Kerry family use to amass their Billions. He wants to be part of the elite ruling class that governs over the equalized masses. Sounds kinda like the USSR doesn't it?
3. He's environmentally friendly? Really, what hard decisions has he had to make with regard to the environment? Hmmm, drill for oil or preserve wetlands in Alaska.... If he doesn't want to be dependant on foreign oil, what does that mean? Nuclear plants every 100 miles? What's the alternative to oil, I mean really, be practical. Solar? Wind? Water? Get real.
4. His foreign policy will turn the US into a member of the EU and we'll be at the beckon call of that crook Annan.
5. He hasn't been briefed yet so I doubt if he's really aware of national security. Think he's going to close the borders? He's the guy that comes home from Vietnam after his 4 month tour and aides the enemy. Why wouldn't he do that now?
Ok, let's give all possible benefit of the doubt. Half of the 100k deaths were not due to violence. Let's assume the other half, fifty thousand violent deaths, were NOT caused in any way by the US military.
So... that's 50,000 accidents/murders the US military was powerless to do anything about in a country they supposedly control. On top of that there were 50,000 more deaths through starvation and disease. Sounds like the place is a lawless pit of human depravity. We've done a mighty fine job, eh?
My point is you are throwing up vauge anecdotes without really analysing their content, source, or rigor. I happen not to agree with the methods of this study, if only because there was no "deduplication", but to dismiss it out of hand is foolish. Documented cases of civilians killed by the US is up around 15,000. [iraqbodycount.net, etc]
As for the "_many_" good reasons in your article... you seem to think that a nation that supports terrorism/atrocities should be invaded. Ok... so what about US support of Iraq while Sadaam actually *was* gassing people? Cheney & Kerry both supported it. How about our illegal and massive support of Afghan "freedom fighters" (hint: the folks we now call "terrorists") around the same time? These are facts, public record, etc.... but remain unexamined because they get in the way of our national illusion.
"The root of all evil is not religion, but certainty." -- Terrence McKenna
Sometimes seventeen/Syllables aren't enough to/Express a complete
I noticed this morning when making sure I had my registration card that my name was mispelled. They had substitued an r for the second c.
When I went to vote the procedure was for one lady to verify my name in the book, while the other took my registration card and added my name to the signature book. The first lady had trouble finding my name, but I was able to spot it in the book and point it out (there was no attempt on her part to keep people from looking in the book). No one checked a photo id, and there didn't appear to be any coordination between the two women to make sure the name verified in the book matched the one on my card. Since no one asked for any form of identification the spelling error was never even noticed.
Voting was done with a scan-tron form which was then fed into a lock box.
I must say I am just plain startled that W Bush has even a chance in this election. 80% of the rest of the world support Kerry to Bush. Why is that so? Are Americans not getting the same news that we do? Bush is not a conservative he is a raving maniac who will not use reason to make judgment. EVERYONE else sees it. _EVERY COUNTRY_! Bush's senior was a million times better president than W. and even he didn't get re-elected. I don't know if people have given W trust by association to his father but he should have lost it a long time ago. Countless experts like Dick Clark warned everyone of the current administration's incompetence at handling terrorism. Have you guys looked at Bush's Biography compared to Kerry's? Bush used to be a alcohol (and possibly cocaine) addict. While Kerry was educating himself and fighting for his country. I can't believe that Bush's arguments are taking seriously. It is very much obvious to everyone that the current US administration is using fear of terror to control everyone. Why has no one noticed that it isn't even going after terror but rather after Iraq. (I shouldn't have to mention that it is unrelated). Bush's very simplistic rhetoric is one of looking at terror like a sports game where the two competing teams are terrorists and the US. He seems to be looking at winning a game or something. Anyone with a bit of logic should see that terrorist don't have a country, they don't have a place we can invade, they don't have a central organisation we can beat. They just consist of a bunch of gangs dispersed around the world and new generations will always exist. If your country acts as a jerk or bully to the rest of the world you make a particular attracting target for terrorists. Right now even reasonable people don't like the US very much. It is easy to see how the sick mind of terrorists can _easily_ turn that sentiment into recruitment tactics and brainwashing material. The US economy has plummeted since W has been in power. W is the only president in 60 years that hasn't created any new jobs. The US Dept is increasing at a rate of 1.7 billions a day, (And there was a surplus with Clinton) and your dollar is getting weaker by the months. Domestic politics have been forgotten and replaced by disastrous world bullying.
a rd=dem;action=display;num=1099270908
I am equally astounded toward the use of electronic voting machines. Maybe it is just because of my background in electrical engineer and computer science but to me basic common sense will tell you that they are obviously stupid without a printout. I usually mock people who have conspiracy theories, but here I am inclined to suspect some kind of conspiracy. What else could explain this lack of common sense???
Some interesting links:
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/
http://www.lnreview.co.uk/news/004535.php
http://www.yellowhat.org/cgi-bin/forum/YaBB.pl?bo
I seem to recall hearing about an election process somewhere whereby you could choose from the candidates given, or vote "none of the above." If "none of the above" got a majority/plurality/whatever-ity of the vote, then both/all parties had to find new candidates to nominate until they came up with one palatable enough for the voting populace to actually elect, rather than "settle for."
Would this be such a bad idea for the U.S.?
--- "When I think back on all the crap I learned in high school, it's a wonder I can think at all..."
Being ELIGIBLE for something does not automatically mean you are QUALIFIED to do it. I have a BS in Computer Engineering, therefore I'm ELIGIBLE for any job which requires that degree. However, there are a lot of jobs for which I'm ELIGIBLE that I'm not QUALIFIED to perform because my experience is in a different specialty.
If the candidate's degree of Constitutional scholarship is the only quality that matters when chosing a President, then I submit that Lawrence Lessig is an infinately more qualified choice for President than Badnarik.
There are probably over 100M US citizens who are eligible to hold the presidency, so by your argument ANY of them is qualified to do the job. I'm sure you could find a homeless illiterate paranoid schizophrenic with multiple felony convictions and substance abuse problems who still meets all the Constitutional eligiblity requirements for the Presidency. Would this person be qualified for the job? I think not.
Hell, *I* am over 35, have lived in the US all my life, and have never been charged with any crime more serious than driving 20mph over the speed limit. I'll wager a week's pay that my knowledge of the Constitution is at least as good as Badnarik's. Therefore, by your standards, I'm as qualified to be President as he is. Vote for Me!
Why is it that the proponents of "one nation under God" are so eager to get rid of "liberty and justice for all"?
Its interesting how people get things exactly backwards.
We didn't turn our backs on the UN, the UN turned their backs on US. The "coalition of the bribed and coereced" exactly describes the United Nations, not the nations allied with us in this war. Russia, China and France are up to their ears in kickbacks and graft from our old buddy Saddam. With "friends" like this, we'd damned well better be ready to "go it alone" if the situation calls for it.
And I LOVE that people forget how Ronald Reagan, the greatest champion of freedom in the last 50 years, was portrayed by the media during his tenure.
He was a reckless cowboy loner, willing to push the Soviet Union military (and the US) into bankruptcy, risking Total Nuclear Annihilation for some idiotic notion that he could defeat the Soviet Union without firing a shot.
He was villified by "our international friends" and hounded by the Democrats mercilessly. He was regarded as an empty headed, overly simplistic buffoon.
Those famous words "Tear Down This Wall" were almost universally decried as confrontational, dangerous and completely lacking any "nuance" in understanding our relationship with the Kremlin.
But, of course, since the Democrats, the media and the "international community" got it EXACTLY WRONG, you don't hear much about how things actually WERE back in the day. I remember. I was there. I see the parallels with today's situation. I wish that people who's knowledge of history ends with "George Washington chopped down a cherry tree" would just sit the f*ck down and shut up.
His $1.5 TRILLION health care plan disagrees.
"Ask not what your country can do for you." --John F. Kennedy
How is favoring the repeal of current tax cuts and increasing other taxes "fiscally conservative"? Fiscal conservatives realize that the REAL way to spur the economy is to put the money into the hands of the people, NOT the government.
(2) He's socially liberal (no bigotry here!)
Not all social conservatives are bigots, and, as a social conservative, I resent the accusation. One of the primary tenets of social conservatives is to HELP people in ways that will benefit them for life, NOT just give them some handouts (read: life-long welfare).
Your post is pure FUD in an effort to get semi-conservatives on the fence to vote for the most liberal senator (fiscally & socially) in congress. Nice try...
Could someone please point out to me where in the Constitution, exactly, is the "Right To Not Be Offended"?
It was A-K, L-Z here in Fairbanks. 30 minutes to get through L-Z, and nobody in line at A-K.
Nor in McHenry County, IL (howdy neighbor!). We had the oval forms as well. What I found a bit odd was that there was no option to NOT vote for certain local candidates. I didn't have information about some of the candidates on my ballot, so I should have been given the option to not vote for either candidate (an abstain oval). But I had to either choose one, or do a write-in. You aren't supposed to leave them blank, because of the chance of voter fraud. So for some local candidates, I had to choose based on no information. If I am uninformed, or indifferent about some positions, I should be able to make that choice. For some local judges, I only had the option YES/NO as to whether they should keep their positions. I have only been in my county for just under 2 years, so I don't know much about the local politics. I suppose I should have brushed up on it before the election, but I still think there should be an "abstain" option for every candidate.
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Guys, this does *NOT* bode well:
weather.com map, snow in western Texas!
It's SNOWING in Amarillo and Lubbock, and Roswell, NM! This is CRAZY! First the Red Sox, now THIS?! Are we doomed? Does this mean it's snowing in hell, for real? Holy crap this is insane...
It's like Y2K-panic all over again...
All across the country, people are reporting turnout that won't just break records, it will leave the records shattered and smoldering
A couple of official notes I've seen...
Oregon now predicting 90% turnout.
Nebraska opened the day predicting 55% turnout. By 9 am, they upgraded prediction to 75% turnout.
Voter turnout most heavy in areas considered Democratic strongholds.
Does this mean that in U.S. you have to show some official who you voted for? No such thing as vote confidentiality?
Since 270 EV are needed to win the election, I guess this means that we can look forward to a joint Bush/Kerry Whitehouse. The next 4 years are going to be craaaazzzy.
While thinking philosophically, we see problems in places where there are none. -Wittgenstein
I had to vote for them, much less loserific (my new word for the day)than bush.
Just my 2c
cayle
My Linux Command of the Day site : LCOD
NO, you are NOT disenfranchised by voting for the losing ticket. Your "franchise" is the RIGHT TO VOTE, not the RIGHT TO WIN.
Here in Virginia, the Democrats ran the state for 100 years until the 1990s. The Republicans won by getting stronger and stronger with each election. They worked from the ground up, and eventually took control.
That's the way it's supposed to work. Things aren't supposed to swing widely back and forth from year to year.
"We receive as friendly that which agrees with, we resist with dislike that which opposes us" - Faraday
...but these are the ancient mechanical machines that we've been using for decades. Little danger of those causing a big problem. Kind of goes to show how silly it is to compromise your electoral system in the name of progress.
Rob
Like it would really have been any different if it had been Democrats. Well, maybe the DNC would have already filed a suit by now...
Constitutionally Correct
According to the Des Moines Register poll out late Saturday evening, 27 percent of Iowa adults have already voted. And among those Kerry leads 52 percent to 41 percent.
relevent links:
Salon War Room Report [salon.com]
Gallup Poll original data [gallup.com]
USA Today story [usatoday.com]
All news stories merely mention this in passing.....
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
A bit different here in Yorktown.
1) Stand in line (short line where I voted)
2) Get your ID checked at a table marked by name.
3) You're handed what looks like a church raffle ticket.
4) You walk to another counter, are handed a paper ballot with a seal on it (not the York County Seal). It says "York County Official Ballot."
5) Wait in another short line, walk to a booth that looks something like a school desk with a divider around it and a desk lamp.
6) Fill in the bubbles in pen.
7) Walk to the entrance, drop your ballot in a machine named "accuvote" that sucks it in.
No BSOD though.
All of the pro-Kerry spam emails that got through my 4-stage junk mail filter on my mail server have made me even more angry towards Kerry (and not only that, but also the immense amount of tricks played on senior citizens by Democrats to vote "accidentally" for Kerry, and also moving Bush's name out of the way on other ballots so that regular people "accidentally" vote for Kerry)You can probably guess who I'm voting for ;) If Kerry wins, this will be a hilarious 4 years haha.
-eventhorizon
#Secret Windows Source Code, in MS C% - if (uptime >= "24 hours") then bsod() else print "Windows License Violation!"
In Hampton Roads (York County) we have optical machines. It takes me back to middle school and scan-tron tests. Personally, I don't understand why anyone would choose any other kind of machine (except for the disabled, of course).
We have the same division (A-K, L-Z), but at my polling place the only line was for L-Z. If you were A-K you could walk right up. I assumed that each precinct had chosen an alphabetical division based on the last names in their rolls, but clearly I gave them too much credit. I can't complain though, I only had to wait 5 minutes. I guess y'all wait longer for everything up in NoVa.
My experience wasn't quite as bad as yours but is related.
When I updated my address with the Califonia DMV, I checked the box to have them update my voter registration. That was about 3 months ago.
Last month, I called the county voter registration office and they said I wasn't registered.
So I drove down in person and submitted a change of address there.
I confirmed it last week over the phone and was on the updated list of registered voters for my polling place. They had the main list printed Oct 22 and another list with the folks who registered afterwards.
There are election monitoring web sites. I would reccommend you go to http://www.commoncause.org and click on the voter experience link.
They are collecting accounts of voting experiences (including irregularities).
If this is a pattern, they can do something about it.
"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." -- Albert Einstein
That list you quote is "from a list of guests" and is NOT a complete list.It is from the Washington Post and another Post article says "President Bush, insisting that Arafat take more decisive action to rein in Palestinian militants, has refused to invite him to the White House, where Arafat was a frequent guest during the Clinton administration."
From American Spectator:"Bill Clinton, for example, invited a terrorist to the White House who had conspired in the deaths of Americans, even letting him sleep and sate himself at taxpayer expense as an honored guest for weeks at a time. His name was Yasser Arafat, the Kato Kaelin of the Clinton years, bunking so frequently at the White House the press described him as a "constant guest." One of Arafat's terrorists, marveling at his White House residency, was able to brag to the press, "Arafat was a guest at the White House more often than Netanyahu was."
What a stunning example of the slashdot mod system that your partial list is 'insightful'...
Finally, we know what Mr. Bush didn't want to let us know about the Bin Laden tape:
n .tape/index.html
http://www.cnn.com/2004/WORLD/meast/11/01/binlade
It is interesting how much his arguments make sense. Did Bush ever say something THAT clear? Did he have such a clear strategy when he sent his troops to iraq? We will prevail... Yes, sure. Tell us hat we want to hear and we will not question it further.
The censored version of the tape made everybody wonder, why Bin Laden is supporting Bush. The uncensored version speaks a different language.
I hope Kerry wins, and I hope it will change something. I also hope Bush will pay for what he did to America and the world.
According to the Des Moines Register poll out late Saturday evening, 27 percent of Iowa adults have already voted. And among those Kerry leads 52 percent to 41 percent.
relevent links:
Salon War Room Report
Gallup Poll original data (I think this is the correct data set)
USA Today story
All news stories merely mention this in passing.....
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
I've heard tell that when Reno lost whatever race she was running in that after the deadline to request a recount a large number of ballots were found, such that she would have actually won, and was within the margin to request a recount. Instead of making something of it, she decided to just let the original decision stand.
"Not knowing when the dawn will come, I open every door." - Emily Dickinson
(Deep breath. I'm about to do something totally insane--try to present a rational, factual explanation of a political subject on SlashDot. Maybe its because I've been eating nothing but red M&Ms all day....)
IAMPAEO--BIHBO
I Am Not Presently An Election Official--But I Have Been One. And I can promise you, with all sincerity, that the margin of error is effectively zero. We count every single ballot, whether on the voting machines or in absentee ballots, regardless of how late we have to stay up to do it. The people in your county registrar's office total up all of the ballots from the polling places, and keep checking and re-checking until they have it right. The math is done in front of representatives from all political parties, as well as any candidate-appointed watchers that are present as well. When the election results are certified, the results are correct--with an error rate of zero.
Oh, c'mon. What about...
I have been an election official for more than fifteen years--and I have been involved in counting votes on Election night in heavily Democratic wards, and in heavily Republican wards. It does not matter--we get the vote total correct, and we turn it in to the county. Then the county re-checks our work--and they carefully preserve the voting machines until they're convinced we have done the work correctly. (One year, back in the 1980s, the county had questions about one of our voting machines and called the officials back in later in the week to make sure they understood what we'd done.)
Don't confuse the results announced on TV with the certified election
I have also done consulting work with the Elections Unit of a major TV network. They have an entirely different agenda: their goal is to "call" the election for one candidate or the other before any other media outlet. They are basing their "calls" on exit-polling data ("pardon me, ma'am, but could you tell me who you voted for?") in a handful of selected precincts across a state. They will report preliminary totals ("And we now see Governor Bloviate leading with 1,424,325 votes with 21% of precincts reporting...") without explaining the context (are those Bloviate's strong precincts? Who says the numbers are correct?) They're out to report fast, accuracy be damned. (Sorry, Charlie, but that's the way it really is.)
The real story, the real vote total, comes when the election is certified. And the "chaos" that we all saw in Florida was the actual process of certifying an election. There were flaws (the biggest: they hadn't defined any rules for how to count votes)--but they eventually arrived at a standard, and used that standard to count votes. They ended up with a total. That's the final number.
All that said....
The total vote count will be determined with a level of error of zero. What will not be determined--and what I fear will be rampant in this election, on both sides--is how many votes were fraudulent, due to duplicate registrations, absentee ballot fraud, etc.
> (3) He's environmentally friendly
You can recycle him at the end of his term?
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Don't vote: make mine count more.
Here in Chicago's 49th precinct I just got done standing in line for one hour and forty minutes. In the past I've voted in this precinct, and for both midterm and presidential elections I've never had to wait more than a couple of minutes.
Truly, the voter turnout is astounding, and the number of young people voting unprecidented. Eyeballing the couple of hundred people in line before and after me, I'd say between two thirds and three quarters of the people voting were under 30.
This bodes well for Kerry, assuming the Diebold Tabulators don't change a chunk of our votes to Bush (Not sure if they're used to count Illinois votes, but they are used in a number of states that are not using the Diebold touch screens, and the tabulators can be used to change tens of thousands of votes in a few keystrokes, simply by entering a two digit back-door code. All without a papertrail, and no way to effectively retrieve the altered data. Welcome to American Democracy 21st century style).
The Future of Human Evolution: Autonomy
I've been wondering about that--I've been having a hard time connecting to Slashdot too, and to other sites. Anybody else there notice that the web seems to be getting really slow of late? People playing City of Heroes have been complaining of bad lag, even when the servers aren't heavily loaded--an indication of a wider general problem. And it seems to be getting worse we get to the election...
> Are Americans not getting the same news that we do?
Do you get your news from FOX?
Sheesh, evil *and* a jerk. -- Jade
Thus far, every single day for the last two weeks, just to check... I've input my address [Maui, Hawaii] into MyPollingPlace.com. When it's actually up. And every single time, I receive this response. You vote at: Sorry, we have not received any information from your precinct. It does list a few phone numbers, but any public service lines on Maui are nigh impossible to get through to. It took me roughly three months of calling constantly to schedule an appointment at the DMV. With the horrors happening in Florida and other states, it's a wonder Elections even function. Yeah, all this is common knowledge, but it's really disappointing to have public servants that are so lax in their duties.
How many Libertarians does it take to change a light bulb?
None, the free market will take care of it
(disclaimer; voted Badnarik first thing this morning)
If I was that drunk, I would have remembered it -- H. Simpson
These elections have really underlined the vast amount of dirty tricks that occur, and how easy it is to beat the system.
There needs to be a simple system for registering, casting ballots, and counting the results. Using encryption and the internet, it should be fairly easy.
My idea is to have all the serious scrutiny (proof of identidy and residence) done during registration, then give each registered voter a USB device with an embedded encryption key tied to you and you alone. On election day, stick the key in any internet connected computer, anywhere in the world, and cast your vote. The votes are tabulated immediately.
Or maybe you'd have to go to a polling place and provide a thumbprint, then you'd use your USB device to activate the voting machine and authenticate your vote. There needs to be some authentication on election day, or anyone who owned your USB key would own your vote.
I'm all for free elections, however, I can't believe we still use the electoral college, whose purpose is antiquated and whose effect has proven downright fraudulent. I believe that our 'vote-for-one-candidate' system should be replaced by a more mathematically correct ranking system, or 'vote-for-as-many-as-you-like' allowing for 3rd and 4th parties to be elected by holding the most common cross-section of the population's beliefs.
However, I'm skeptical that even such changes will do any good because the manner in which we gather votes is flawed and subject to fraud from all sides. I'm horrified that Diebold machines are actually being used in the election, however I secretly hope that CowboyNeal wins Ohio just to prove the point.
All in all, I believe that all politicians are corrupted by illegal and immoral means via corporations and lobbyists. . . and, quite honestly, I would vote for any candidate just for saying 'linux good, DRM bad'.
Have you voted yet? If not WTF are you reading /.?
Full text of Economist article at http://www.economist.com/displaystory.cfm?story_id =3152936
Dick Cheney, backseat driver par excellence
IN MOST presidential re-election campaigns people don't spare a second thought for the vice-presidential candidate. Nobody voted to re-elect Ronald Reagan because he had George Bush senior on the ticket, or Bill Clinton because he had Al Gore. But this year Americans ought to spare more than a second thought for the man who stepped onto the stage in Madison Square Garden on Wednesday night.
Dick Cheney growled out a speech that was reminiscent of General Secretary Andropov on a bad day. The audience loved him anyway. When he spoke of George Bush never seeking "a permission slip to defend the American people", they burst into chants of "Four more years!". Nobody expected lofty rhetoric from this particular vice-president. Mr Cheney's talent is not for the theatrics of power, but for the mechanics.
He is not only the most powerful vice-president in American history. He is also the most controversial, a man whose decisions have repeatedly given even loyal Republicans pause. Four more years of George W. means four more years of Bush-Cheney: the closest thing to a co-presidency America has ever seen.
For the past four years the two men have been inseparable. Most vice-presidents have to fight for time with their boss; Mr Cheney sees his several times a day. Most vice-presidents spend their days at state funerals; Mr Cheney, more than anyone else, picked the members of the current administration. Thereafter he helped to shape the administration's policies on everything from energy policy to the invasion of Iraq.
The Republicans have repeatedly reminded Americans this week that September 11th 2001 defined this administration. But who was in charge on that terrible day? It was Mr Cheney who took most of the key decisions--from hiding the president to authorising the shooting-down of suspicious aircraft--while Mr Bush was holed up in Nebraska.
September 11th was a break from Mr Cheney's normal low-key style. In general, he prefers to direct from behind rather than seize the wheel. From the first, he exploited his boss's penchant for focusing on the big picture in order to control the details. He packed the second tier of the administration with allies such as Paul Wolfowitz, Bill Luti and Stephen Hadley. And he created an axis of influence with Donald Rumsfeld, the man who had given him his first break in national politics, and who shares his no-nonsense view of the world.
Mr Cheney's acceptance speech at last put paid to lively rumours that Mr Bush was planning to dump him from the ticket in favour of somebody who appeals more to swing voters: John McCain, for example. Mr Cheney is clearly a drag on the ticket in purely electoral terms: the latest CNN/Gallup poll finds as many Americans disliking him as liking him. But the rumours, in the end, were hot air. Mr Cheney is so integral to the administration that to dump him would be the equivalent of decapitating it.
The vice-president's unique position raises a serious practical question: what happens if he has another serious heart attack? (He has already had four.) It also raises a serious political question: how well has Mr Cheney used the power he has amassed with such Machiavellian cunning?
In 2000 he was widely seen as the conservative movement's answer to Washington's legendary wise men, such as Dean Acheson and George Kennan. Nobody who studied Mr Cheney's biography, from his hard-right voting record in Congress to his patronage of conservative intellectuals (the famous Laffer curve was first sketched on his napkin), could doubt his ideological bent. But he was one of the most experienced politicians in Washington: the youngest White House chief of staff ever, a congressman for Wyoming and defence secretary. He was careful to wrap his conservatism in the mantle of common sense. Who better to restrain Mr Bush's more gung-ho Texan instincts?
The parent's "published plan" link doesn't work for me.
p lan.html
The official link with the plan appears to be:
http://www.johnkerry.com/issues/national_service/
I don't see any mention of a draft here. It looks instead like a quite reasonable exchange of military/public service for college financial aid incentives.
There was this thing called the Soviet Union in WW2 which fought the real war against the Third Reich on the Eastern Front.
Then in the 80s it imploded, cause it was a rotten, economically stagnant system that no one believed in any more.
God bless the American myths.
Cheers,
Nyenyec
According to World Atlas Sweden is about the size of California (land size) and the population of 8,875,053. We have more than that in New York city alone. We are the "United States" and voting is run by each state. So every state may do things a little differently. I live in New York State and like the old fashion machines that we use. But with the size of the US and the complexity of having different states so large, you can't compare Sweden to the US. Maybe Russia or China, but not Sweden.
I'm not familiar with the way Russia votes so I can't comment about them. Do they have a better system? Atleast our system seemed better than India. If I remember, their system took weeks, but then again, India's has a lot more people than the US.
Steven Rostedt
-- Nevermind
if you are living in an area where the vote is more or less decided (such as a very strong Bush locale, or a very strong Kerry locale)
I get the impression that this election will hold a lot of surprises. Here in Texas I am seeing a good number of Kerry supporters even though my state (and city!) have been overwhelmingly conservative in the past. My city is big on business, and I know many businessmen who are traditional Republicans yet think electing Bush is a foolish idea at best. It is possible that my state may still go for Bush, but if there's ever a time when you can vote Democrat in Texas and maybe actually be in the majority, it is now in this election.
In the history of the US, there have been instances where states which have traditionally voted one way have flipped overnight to vote heavily for the opposing party. Even though Texas has voted Republican in the past, I personally know many conservatives who will absoultely not vote for Bush in this election. The people here know business, and even they have their limits. You should not expect a state to go for one candidate just because it has gone for their party in the past. Things can change, and stranger things have happened.
Light is filtering down from above. Would you like to use DIVE?
"I tend to wonder about the view that 'X politician just follows the polls and does whatever is popular.'"
The problem with the vote on Iraq was I don't think it would have been popular but for one thing. The Bush administration used propaganda, fabrication and deceit to sucker everyone in to thinking invading Iraq was the right thing to do. It was pretty obvious what they were doing at the time:
- Paint images of mushroom clouds and UAV's spraying american cities with biological weapons though they had no proof Iraq had any weapons or intent to use them against the U.S.
- Blame 9/11 on Iraq when it was obvious Iraq either had nothing to do with it or their role paled in comparison to that of Al Qaida.
I was screaming in frustration at the time because everyone was buying it without questioning it, media, politicians, everone. As I recall they scheduled the vote right before the mid term election to further coerce everone to vote their way.
You can't blame politicians for caving under the circumstances but you know everyone that did is devoid of backbone, principals, judgement and guts so you can't count on them doing the right thing under pressure. When you have politicians with the enormous power they have in the White House they need to do whats right first and explain it honestly to the people why it was right even if it wasn't popular. Most Americans dont have the knowledge or information to make foreign policy decisions so you really can't make most decisions based on polls.
In Kerry's case you would figure he would at least say his vote was a mistake since its become obvious the war was a lie but he doesn't even have the backbone to do that. He isn't trying to follow the will of the people that are voting for him. Democrats are mostly antiwar. He is trying to win a tiny handful of voters in the middle who don't necessarily like the war but want a strong leader. Kerry true to form conforms to the group he is trying to win over.
@de_machina
1. Republican talking point.
2. Classic democrat/republican divide. Both parties' platforms are just to the left and right of center.
3. His record speaks for itself with regards to the environment. Energy independence is not feasible, though there are ways to speed up the process. Drilling Alaska would give us oil for 4 years at current consumption - compared to a lifetime of untainted beauty.
4. Listen to AM radio much?
5. Kerry's the bronze and silver star winner - not a "champagne unit" veteran.
Linux: Free if your time is worthless.
See also:
http://verifiedvoting.org/verifier/
-Rich
Did you register to vote?
Did the Board of Elections "lose" your registration?
Did the out-of-state guy who helped you fill out the registration form show up to vote while you were there?
Did anyone challenge your registration?
Were all of the candidates on the ballot?
If you were using an electronic voting machine, did it work?
Are you sure?
Please note, your responses will not be counted if you are registered with the wrong party, not in a swing state or used an electronic voting machine.
How do you figure that bush "chickened out" he served his complete tour and moved on, Kerry OTOH, used his 3 scratches to go home early.
In the real world, war doesn't end when you get scratched, you have to stick it out.
Food not Bombs is a nice platitude but it breaks down when you notice that the Bombees are usually well fed
They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
Right on. Right on.
Light is filtering down from above. Would you like to use DIVE?
You mean the policies carried out by exactly the same Recycled Reganites that are in power right now? I don't see how these policies have changed, or that they were new in 1980. We are, right this moment, supporting a dictator with territorial ambitions, proven ties to terrorists and working nuclear weapons: "President" Musharraf of Pakistan.
The US gov supported Ceausceau (Romania), the Duvlaiers (Haiti), the Marcoses (Phillipenes), Noriega (Panama), Hussein (Guess), the Shah of Iran (he was toppled by Islamisists in 1979, which led directly to our funding the Iran-Iraq war), Suharto (Indonesia, famous for killing ~200,000 people), Pol Pot (Cambodia), South Africa, Batista (Cuba), plus sundry terrorists, thugs, drug dealers and penny-ante puppets all over the planet.
And all that's just since 1950, and doesn't include *direct* attacks by the US. Fact remains: traditional US policy is to fund any manner of atrocities whatsoever, as long as it helps our short and medium-term goals. We're not the only ones, but fucking-A...
Sometimes seventeen/Syllables aren't enough to/Express a complete
Vote John Kerry! He may not be the brightest star in the night sky, but at least he doesn't just STOP talking altogether as he attempts to think.
Bush disenfranchises me and my peers by making much education that could lead to the reduction of teen pregnancies and STDs among both adults and teens inacurate or unavailable.
For example, the CDC (Center for Disease Control) had information about using condoms on their site before Bush happened. Now the same site simply has information on celibacy (AKA: abstinence) and only the faliures of condoms.
He has also imposed the "Global Gag Rule" and has declared himself against abortion whatsoever, even if it is to protect the life of the mother or any other circumstance (like if some 13yo girl got raped).
By votng for Bush today, you are helping to ensure that my generation (and possibly yours too) will be one riddled with teen pregnancies, STDs, and many other problems...
I sit next to a Venezuelan, and I hear about how corrupt Chavez is at least twice a day without fail. And their recall election was over months ago (Chavez managed to stay).
That Canuck will still be griping if the wrong person wins.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
Some /.er's claim that one party or the other was making plans to scare people away from the polls today. Has anybody personally seen first-hand this happening? I'm not trolling; I'm serious.
Wh47 d1d j00 541, 31337 15n't t3h r0xor5 ne m0r3???
Well, at this point the Right is really so much in control of the government and have the media so cowed (CBS, NBC, et al) or have the media on his side (Fox, CNN, MSNBC), that the only possible comeuppance for Bush et al., at this time is via the voting booth.
If you want some good info on how biased the media is, try reading the forums at www.deomcraticunderground.com
Those guys are on top of every instance of bias that the media perpetrates. Right now, the only news organization that has shown any inclination to fight Bush is CBS. I am not referring specfically to the Rathergate memos, but to the everyday presentation of campaign news.
All the rest of the media is either slightly biased for Bush (NBC, ABC) or solidly biased for Bush (Fox, CNN, MSNBC), with some exceptions on MSNBC and CNN.
You need to remember that almost all of these talking heads and reporters are making $100K, 200K, $500K, $1M, or even several million dollars a year. Yes! News anchor make MILLIONS! Even in large metro network affliate TV stations, the talking head salaries run over $1M or much more.
So Bush's tax cuts for the rich may be saving these tv news people over $100K per year or even more. So, who do you think they favor?
eat shiat and bark at the moon
Here in North Carolina (High Point) it seems to be a 1 1/2 hour line everywhere. In spite of what I thought yesterday(60 -65%) the poll workers think we will go over 70%. I hope it goes that well everwhere, then, no matter the outcome, the majority will have spoken.
Our white box store was not open untill 10:30 instead of 9, the boss was ten people behind me in line.
Professional Politicians are not the solution, they ARE the problem.
You have a different idea of fiscal conservatism than is usual. The idea I subscribe to not racking up trillions of dollars of debt if you don't have to. If you buy stuff on credit, you have to pay interest. If you let that get away from you, you end up paying a lot of interest.
As for "trickle-down": It didn't work in Russia, it didn't work in Africa, and it didn't work in the USA. If you give the money to the idle rich, they just sit on it in swiss bank accounts. If you give it to the middle class, they might invest it locally or spend it.
Our own Corporation for National and Commmunity Service "provides opportunities for Americans of all ages and backgrounds to serve their communities and country through three programs: Senior Corps, AmeriCorps, and Learn and Serve America. Members and volunteers serve with national and community nonprofit organizations, faith-based groups, schools, and local agencies to help meet community needs in education, the environment, public safety, homeland security, and other critical areas."
And is not another name for the draft. Anyway, back to the page you linked to, if you read just a little further down you would have seen this:
While I can't address everything you brought up (the poster of the message you're replying to will have to do that) I can answer a couple of your questions:
The only new training facility expansion I could name was in Fort Jackson (which happens to be one of the largest basic training facilities in the U.S.). Being an inquisitive sort, though, and knowing that the military tends to employ civilian contractors for the construction of such things, I took a quick look through the publically available DoD contracts to see if there are any others being built. It turns out there are a lot of new facilities being built with planned finishing times in 2004/2005. Check it out yourself through DefenseLINK. So this one does seem to have some merit.
Apparently soldiers in garrison are also being extended beyond their ETS, so your argument doesn't hold here. Personally I can see arguments for and against keeping soldiers past their ETS; right now we're not officially at war and if I were a soldier in our "volunteer" army and was told I couldn't get out at my originally agreed period, I'd be pretty upset. On the other hand, if we're expecting big trouble it makes more sense. Since we're being told that Iraq is under control and everything is fine, should we be expecting big trouble?
I'd assume that the original poster is probably referring to Generals Newbold, Franks, Shinseki, Keane, and White (that I can think of -- there are probably more). You've got him here; these people didn't resign because of Bush, they resigned because of Bush's Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld (and in some cases they didn't so much resign as retire early). Of course, one could also argue that there's really not much difference...
Oh come on, if you have any software background you must surely realize that the stuff deemed too hot for export these days is hardly cutting-edge. My company has to actually import OpenBSD CDs from Canada rather than getting them domestically because of the crazy restrictions on software exports currently in place here.
I didn't know about this and Googled around for it. It looks like Bush was reported as doing so in the summer of last year. Realizing it wasn't going over well politically, it was quickly dropped. Apparently in August of last year the tune had changed to one of no increase in combat pay (at least as publically argued in the debate over the Fiscal Year 2003 Supplemental Appropriations bill).
Even if this is true, basic pay is only increasing by 3.5%, and that's certainly not ahead of other increases. I can see where they may not be too happy.
I'm holding my nose and casting my vote for emacs. Oh, wait. Which election were we discussing?
Shop as usual. And avoid panic buying.
my point was just proven thanks to your fine example of tard-ness...
- Hi I'm Linus Torvalds and I pronounce Linux, Lih-nix..
out of my vote.
I am currently attending Texas Tech Universitiy which is located in Lubbock. It's about a 5 hour drive east of my hometown of Albuquerque, New Mexico. Some time in mid October I called in and requested an absentee ballot from the elections office in Santa Fe. I gave them my address info and they told me they would send the ballot right away. A week passed and nothing in the mail. I called my parents and they told me that other people had to wait a while for thiers too. I guess they had trouble keeping up with so many requests. So I decided to wait one more week. Still no ballot. I called them up saying basically "wtf, where's my ballot." The lady took said she would get some one to call me back on it. I gave her my phone number. Three days later it's too late to even mail in my ballot and they never called me. So all I can do now is sit around and hope Kerry gets elected. If not I'm gonna be pissed. My state has had a record of having problems with election counts. I wonder if it has anything to that New Mexico's public schools are the ranked at the most inadequate schools in the nation.
Abaddon: An Xbox 360 Indie game
So I went to vote this morning in Riverside County, CA where we've been using electronic voting since 2000. People were checking in and given a smart card really quickly, but there was a line out the door to just use one of the 10 voting machines they had.
So instead of waiting 30 minutes I just ask for a paper ballot, which is required to be an option under California state law. Some guy in line says "YOU CAN USE A PAPER BALOT??" and then immediately like half the line comes over to get a paper balot. Kind of funny how most people don't even know state law, I was probably the first guy all day to ask for a paper balot...
Hmm. 7.4 trillion is a lot less than $280,000 per citizen. That'd be 84 trillion.
To compare, Americans hold about 2 trillion in personal, non-mortgage debt. So our government is just like the people.
Fellowship 9/11
I just haven't found any of the political episodes to be funny, but I'm not sure if that's me or the show. All I see are a lot of ad hominem attacks, false dichotomies, and other bullshit arguements which are neither ethical nor helpful when it comes to deciding the issues. Mostly I see a couple of Hollywood insiders campaigning for certain policies and against other Hollywood Insiders campaigning for other policies. And a lot of idiotic-to-offensive shit and ethnic jokes.
The other eps are alright. Taisetsu wa mono PROTECT MY BALLS.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
I keep hearing comments from people angry at Bush because we are in a false or fake war. I do not understand why people believe that if we are not in war in IRAQ that it means that we are at peace with the world.
R AME&PROD_ID=998048/
http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?PAGE=PROF
I hate to break it to you, but war is inevitable. I am realistic and not idealistic. The question is that where is the war, in IRAQ or in the US? If we do not actively fight terror, evil, or any of our enemies, we will be on defense when they decide to invade our country, safety, and families.
Honestly, if you have been paying attention at all, after Iraq, we will probably be going to war with Iran and also with North Korea. With these threats against my family, my culture, my life style, and my comfort, we need to stay on the offensive. My football coach always used to say "The best defense is a good offense."
I say vote Bush for all of the above reasons.
"Freedom is a fragile thing and is never more than one generation away from extinction. It is not ours by inheritance; it must be fought for and defended constantly by each generation, for it comes only once to a people. Those who have known freedom, and then lost it, have never known it again."
- Ronald Reagan
http://www.goesnowhere.com/vote.php i am encouraging people to vote on my personal election poll. god i love statistics
Sure has, I have paid less taxes then I ever before.
I also have spent most of the these past four years out of work! So I have have had very Income and been broke most of the time...
I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso
The other part of this that is important but left out is that the point of the Senate was to represent the states rights at the federal level. You can easily point to the direct election of Senators as the beginning of the massive pork and out of control spending that we have today. A lot of these projects are better left to the rights of the individual states rather than the federal governemnt, but right now noone represents the states in Washington. Everyone who is there is only trying to get as much cash back to their constituents as they possibly can, rather than doing what's best for the country.
Maybe it's just me but doesn't this issue point out that there is a serious lack of education in the US? I mean, how many people don't even have the tools (literacy, critical thinking abilities) to make sense of modern political issues?
Where's the outcry?
...and rumored coding insecurities and backdoors, not the user interface.
We can get into splitting hairs plenty, on both sides of this. I'd call forced national service a draft -- even if not everyone is being forced into combat or .mil. Granted, lots of people will disagree with that.
I'd normally attack the forced service idea and such on moral grounds -- is it moral to force someone into service... but that's not what this is about -- this is about whether or not Kerry supports a draft.
This comment(I'm sure you saw it, just pointing it out), in this same thread, does a better job of explaining it than I can at the moment.
If I was that drunk, I would have remembered it -- H. Simpson
Quite frankly, I don't *want* a president who seeks the approval of the rest of the world. The President of the United States doesn't work for the rest of the world. He works for *us*. Sure, a President should consider the stances of our allies when formulating foreign policy, but when it comes right down to it, that shouldn't be more than 10% of the equation. The question a President should ask himself when making a decision is, "Is this good for the people of the United States?" -- not "Is this good for the people of other nations?" or "Is the UN going to like this?"
"Alcohol, Tobacco, & Firearms" should be a convenience store, not a government agency.
When I went to vote this morning we had the Diebold system. This is Montclair, CA.
They handed me a smart card, and I put card in and made my selections.
When came to the end I went to select the "cast ballot" button it returned a message "Are you sure you want to proceed, you haven't made all the selections you are entitled to."
OK?? So I went back and double checked everything. I definatly had voted on everything there was to vote on. Spent about 10 Minutes in all checking and rechecking.
I had to hit the "Cast Ballot" to finish and return my card.
So when I finished I complain to the manager there, and they said it's seems to happen every so often, we don't know what's the reason.
They really didn't know anything about these system, or what they could do about errors or problems.
So I walked away wondering if some of my votes were just dropped or something.
I mean as a programmer this system really made me feel incredably unconfortable as to it's reliablity, accuracy and security.
I am always doing that which I can not do, in order that I may learn how to do it. - Pablo Picasso
Alabama, rightly so in many cases, gets a bad rap for being a backward state, but after reading all of the horrible stories about weird voting machines, [Democratic|Republican] "challenges", disorganized staff, etc. from around the country, I'd like to share my experience...
I drove by my polling place (a suburban neighborhood church) at 7:30 and the line was around the building, so I went on to work. I returned at around 12:30 and the line was more reasonable.
I waited in line for about twenty minutes before I got to the registration table. I showed them my driver's license and voter registration card. They looked up my registration on a form-fed printout of the registration lists and crossed my name out with a yellow highlighter and ruler and handed me a slip of paper. I walked to the next table, gave them the slip of paper and they wrote my ballot number on it, made me sign two side-by-side registers (one printed, one "signed") and gave me the corresponding numbered ballot and a Sharpie marker.
I took it to a privacy cubicle and completed it by connecting the very clear and well-aligned arrows beside the candidates and options of my choice with a big, fat, black line (no possibility of ambiguity unless you are a total idiot). I checked over the ballot, then walked over to the voting machine and fed it in. A beep and a green light told me immediately that all of my votes were registered unambiguously and the paper record of the vote went into a locked tray inside the machine. They gave me a "I voted" sticker and I was on my way.
My only gripe? There are two lines (clearly marked, BTW) for people whose last names start with A-L or M-Z. Everytime I've voted here, the A-L line has, at most, 5 people in in while the M-Z snakes out the door. Unless 'M' is the real clincher, it wouldn't be too hard to split the alphabet to more evenly distribute the lines. If 'M' *is* the culpret, they could even do A-Mi and Mo-Z, but that would probably confuse the moron element.
Why can backward Alabama (or at least our precinct in Huntsville -- can't speak for the rest of the state) get it right while the rest of country is awash in touch screens, mechanical dinosaurs, butterfly ballots, hanging chads, charcoal on tree bark, or whatever else they are forced to use? What is so damned disenfranchising about requiring proof of ID? How hard can it possibly be to cross-check voter registration lists?
-- stream of did I lock the front door consciousness
1) The US has eleven times the number of people living in it.
2) The US military is not killing 1M+ motorists and impoverishing the rest. The road deaths are frightening, but to equate them with civilian war dead is not only dumb, it's insulting.
3) the 50/100K number in the study is for deaths over and above the death rate in previous years... years under Mr. Axis-Of-Evil himself.
Sometimes seventeen/Syllables aren't enough to/Express a complete
I've been listening to Alan Watts lately, and he's inspired much thinking within lately. I wish I had heard him a few weeks ago, though, so that I could pose some questions to the candidates in our moderated Q&A recently.
I'm too busy to articulate any questions at the moment, but with the emphasis on issues and ideology, I feel terribly discouraged at the often thoughtless or carefree approaches to life by politicians. It seems like humanity is reduced to very impersonal demographics at times and I would like to have heard responses from the candidates from the perspective beyond the context of political issues.
Sure we know Bush is an idiot. The problem is that we know that Kerry is an idiot also.
We'll free your country next.
The radical sect of Islam would either see you dead or "reverted" to Islam.
Shouldn't the informed help informing the ignorants? Shouldn't the informed condemn the lies of politicians?
Instead you suggest that ignorant voters shouldn't vote. Something is wrong here. You suggest that workers who work 14 hours a day and miss the biased news, who know not much on politics shouldn't vote. How about only professors in universities are allowed to vote?
This is just another form of eliticism.
If you are informed, at least you have the responsibility to inform others how the facts are twisted in the media. Not everyone is as lucky as you are who can spend time to read and be informed.
A sig is redundant.
Dear americans
o n/st atistics/stats-usa_indiv-states_per-capita_2002.ht m
I've seen that movie, as well as a less entertaining and more informative european made documentary called "Le monde selon Bush" (the world according to Bush) and it's scary.
But even without those 2 productions, the whole planet beside the USA knew there was no link between Irak and the terrorists. The Hussein regime was a Laic totalitarian one and therefore it was absolutly and totally against any form of religious and fanatic movement. Hussein wasn't a good guy but the death toll on both sides of that war tell me that it is not a better world with him out of the way. As a canadian who have access to american, canadian and european tv, I did not see your journalists, your anchormen, your editorials questioning any single lie after another that was spread from that machievical government of yours. Being your neighbor is a scary thing when you see all this.
Your mass medias are suffering from a tremendous lack of thruth, they are all participating in a strange gruesome dance with the people occupying your White House and the fact that Bush has a chance of being re-elected scares me.
Take the word of someone who can see more sides of many stories, President Bush will be remembered as the worst ever of all who resided at the White House.
The Republican party knows very well that all americans are still under the shock of the events of semptember 2001 and it keeps bringing back that gruesome memory while making you believe they only can handle it. With the july 2001 Security report President Bush had everything in hand to stop this attack but he didn't, he proved his incompetence right there and the fact that his party use this event as their main drive is both hilarious and scary. For this you have to see Fahrenheit 9/11 to have more details, it is at your reach and I tell you that you will make yourself a really big favor listening to it.
But there is another way to put it too... let's go with some numbers...
In the last 4 years in the USA
2 000 000 people died of Cancer
170 000 people died of car accidents
44 000 people died of gun shots
3 000 people died of terrorism
(numbers for cancer and car accidents come from rapid searches made with Google)
(car numbers are 2002 numbers multiplied by 4)
http://www.driveandstayalive.com/info%20secti
(Cancer numbers come from this site:)
http://www.u-turn.net/9-1/skeptical.shtml
(Gun shot deaths comes from what I remember from the movie Bowling for Columbine)
(Terrorism death toll come from an imprecise memory but close enough (mine) of one particular event in 2001).
After looking at these numbers, can you sincerely tell me that you will still put security and terrorism at the very first of your priorities?
And even if it was the most important thing, the Bush administration made such a mess of Iraq that it will take decades to clean up. With such a hard task in sight you better show the door to the ones who made this mess and let the others deal with it with more wisdom.
flossie
Write now. Defend liberty
Then obviously the Clinton administration lied (surprise, surprise) when the list of guests was presented OR the Washington Post, CBS News and all the other news organizations who had the same information failed to include Arafat on the list.
As far as inviting a terrorist to the White House, Bush I did the same thing by inviting Yitzhak Shamir so using that as an article leader really doesn't do anything other than show the bias of the American Spectator.
Further, nowhere in anything you presented does it say that Arafat was the #1 guest during the Clinton administration. The only thing that is mentioned is that Arafat was a frequent guest who stayed there more than Netanyahu. So what? If Netanyahu stayed there for a total of 2 weeks and Arafat was there for 3 weeks that would meet the qualification of staying there more than Netanyahu.
As far as the mod system, well, we all know it's a crap shot.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
I worked as a legal volunteer for Election Protection / Ohio Voter Protection Coalition this morning in Dayton, OH; and voted later in south Dayton.
We had many complaints of challegers intimidating voters, directly interacting with and interrogating voters, requesting voters to give their name to the challenger, among other things. Most of the problems voters had were locating the right place to vote, or they registered and weren't on the list, or hadn't registered at all.
The challengers were intimidating even if they didn't say anything, and I fail to see the purpose they serve. First, they sit behind the poll workers with a list of names (which more than likely contained the names they tried to challenge before the election, in which case they are in direct violation of a federal order enjoining them from doing that.) Then, they just glare at voters and make them feel uncomfortable. This is especially true in areas were the population is overwhelming black. They serve no purpose, because if they do challenge someone, the poll judge asks a few questions of the voter and the voter is allowed to vote almost every time. The only reason they are there is to intimidate and discourage people from voting. (If you believe in your candidate, you should want everyone to vote, shouldn't you?)
There were a few other minor things, but most centered around inappropriate actions of challengers. Hopefully a few will be tossed out before the end of the day.
My voting experience had a few bumps as well. I was immediately asked for ID, which I respectfully refused, and had to find my own name in the roster, because the poll worker couldn't hear me apparently. Once that was done, I had to get in a second line, where they took my ballot, wrote down the number, then wrote my name and address as they were on a second roll. (I'm not sure what the point was in that). As I was waiting in line, a lady asked if her son who has frequent epileptic seizures could be allowed to vote instead of waiting in line, so as to not disrupt everyone, and make it easier for him. The lady refused, so I made it a point to inform the poll worker and the voter that if there is any kind of disability, they can request to have the worker bring the ballot out to them in their car or whatever, and vote there. There is no reason why having a disability should prevent you from voting.
That said, I've heard some great news regarding early exit polls; the number of new voters I ran into was incredible; people genuinely seem to actually care about voting and making sure their vote is counted. It was somewhat reassuring to see so many people be so determined to vote.
The more people that vote, especially among groups that tend to avoid the polls, the better it is for the candidate I support. From what I've seen, things are looking very good.
What?
One could do worse than to watch the Frontline episode Choice 2004.
When, I believe, it was his roomates uncle, who was a highly placed government offical came to Yale to speak about service, duty and honor, Bush was partying it up, didn't attend the talk. When this uncle spoke private with Kerry and his close circle of friends, he impressed upon them just how important it was to serve. Kerry, and his friend ended up volunteering because they were moved to. They were PERSONALLY called to serve. Later would end up dying. And after Kerry's first tour, he signed up for a SECOND. Where he served with some distinction.
Bush and his crew were partying hard enough to make John Belushi blush. One of his friends pulled a stunt that got him kicked out of Yale, was forced to go to Vietnam and he died. That really put the fear of God into them. So they partied a lot, and after college Bush went into the air national guard with help from his father. A trick one of his own friends says he wished he could have duplicated.
You're right, I did see it, and you're also right it does a better job of explaining it than either you or I did.
Given that the educational system in this country isn't likely to change much over within my lifetime, and given that it's an even newer experiment than our form of government, and given that real world experience is almost universally preferrable to a purely academic background, I think "public service for high school credits" sits with me just fine.
The only problem I could see is where this system gets abused and the government treats these kids as basically free labor, and they're doing things like paving highways instead of feeding old ladies or giving nature tours or something.
Though I think there should be alternatives to public service. Ambitious high schoolers should be able to do internships, which will help them choose a vocation, and help them choose a path through the world of higher education that's more balanced than the paths chosen by 18 year olds freshout of high school. I.e. how do you choose a major with no real world experience, and how do you choose a college without knowing your major?
I guess what I'm saying is, it could be a step in the right direction but it could (and most likely) is a path towards evil. Just please don't paint it as a military draft.
they're biased against you.
Another de-voted anarchist refusing to vote.
Ahhh...heck. I just think people whouldn't vote because, from a microeconomic standpoint, it is inefficient. As we all learned from the last election, the likelihood that your vote would be the deciding vote is next to infinitesimal. In addition, even if it is the deciding vote, the lawyers will muck everything up anyway. Why waste the time voting?
That being said, I did vote (to keep my grandmother happy). I also note that I am very interested in the outcome of the election. A ton of handy election-night tools can be found here, including electoral college vote trackers, poll-closing time charts, pre-election polls, etc. Should be a fun night for all.
GF
Lots of petrified grits
I was a little annoyed to find Michael Badnarik listed as an "other party candidate" here in Butler County, Ohio. I guess we have to deal with that sort of thing until the government recognizes the Libertarian party. I'm not holding my breath.
Last election cycle we had electronic voting machines here. They're gone now, replaced by punch card machines with detailed instructions on how to use them and how to avoid hanging chads. I don't know who the computers were made by. A poll worker I asked about it seemed glad they were gone.
from www.electoral-vote.com:
"... So why am I a happy camper? We survived an unprecedented triple flash crowd and logged it all. As it turns out, two of the faculty members in my Dept., Maarten van Steen and Guillaume Pierre, are doing research on coping with flash crowds. The research issues include how many replicas to set up, where to place them, how fast to deploy them, and how to do it automatically, in real time, and at minimum cost. To simulate proposed algorithms, you need data about real flash crowds and real attacks, preferably at the same time. And boy oh boy do we have data now. Students interested in this and other areas of computer systems might want to check out the English-language Masters program I am running at the Vrije Universiteit."
= 9J =
You know what, I hate this BS. If you don't care enough to vote don't. If you don't have a strong opinion, DON"T VOTE! Why should someone who walks into the voting booth and picks someone at random cancel out my well researched and thought out vote? Don't encourage people who don't give a dman to vote, they just weaken the process. I'd rather have an election where only 20% of the population voted, but actually thought about it and did research then an election where 100% voted but never bothered to think about it. I've done my homework, I'm going to vote. If you haven't done your homework, don't vote. You are the reason we have such negative elections with no real debates, because you are to susceptible to suggestions. I'd argue we need less voting in this country not more.
Although I realize that neither candidate is ideal, there is one overwhelming reason to vote for Kerry in this election.
The real issue, as far as our national security is concerned, is a crippling dependence on foreign oil. Being a finite and economically extremely important resource, competition over oil is a point of conflict on a world scale. With China finally entering the scene, this competition will inevidably get worse.
Of the two candidates, only one supports putting money into a national project toward becoming independent of forgein (especially middle eastern) oil. Given an effort reminiscent of the drive to the moon, or the manhattan project, this goal is not as impossible as it may seem. The groundwork has already been laid with great advances in nuclear power plants (a 60 year old technology that we have allowed to go by the wayside due to early failures) as well as hydrogen fuel. If our best and brightest were faced with the task of developing these and new technologies, the return would be immense.
Imagine, we would no longer have such a vested interest in meddling in the affairs of the middle east. Today, it is necessary because without their oil our economy would be crushed under its own weight. Not needing their oil, we would need nothing else from the region. As unfortunate of an analogy as it may be, the Middle East could be treated in much the same way as we treat Africa, that is, given little to no attention. Not only that, but the returns as far as technology and job creation would be just what our country needs. We would produce new fields and job opportunities that will never exist otherwise. We would have a head start into the next phase of economic evolution.
Now, Im not foolish enough to think that Kerry will deliver a Kennedyesque speech starting this grand project, but he will at least get us moving in the right direction. Check out the Energy Independence section of his campaign site to see the Talking-Point versions of his ideas.
The alternative is an Oil Man who has shown no interest in changing the losing path our country is following. Instead, he started a war that may leave one of the worlds richest oil reserves up for grabs. Leave Iraq? Impossible. That would be like handing our energy needs directly to Iran, who, incidentally, already once tried to take it by force.
When you go to the polls today, please try to see past the partisan veils that have been strategically hung by attack ads and political pundits on FOX, CNN, etal. Hopefully you've done your own research, and can come to a rational decision based on facts gleaned from a wide array of sources with a whole spectrum of biases (unbiased sources simply don't exist).
Tryba
Worst Ballot Ever
This is my first time voting and I have to say that I am seriously Dissapointed with my choices. I don't just mean Bush v. Kerry. As I was reading a sample ballot and in the voting booth (electronic w/o paper trail, not that my vote matters anyway) I kept remembering the words, "Iraq is not a democracy because you can only vote for Saddam or not vote for Saddam." By those standards Collin County, Texas is not a democracy. On the door to the polling center there was a sign saying that we wouldn't even be voting in the hotly contested Pete Sessions v. Jack Frost race where redistricting put a Democratic incumbent in the same conservative district as a Republican incumbent. I would have cast a proud Democratic vote in that race but I am 200 feet across the county line. sigh... No wonder turnout was so low.
For President:
[ ] Bush(R)
[x] Kerry(D)
[ ] Badnerik(L)
For U.S. Representative:
[ ] Johnson(R)
[ ] Vessels(L)
[ ] Jenkins(I)
WTF?!?! I can't even vote for a Democratic congressman. Fuck this "democracy". My choice for Congressman was between 3 types of conservatives. The rest of the ballot was a choice between checking the box next to a Republican or not checking a box next to a Republican. I chose not to check the box. I "voted" but I didn't vote for more than half the "races" on the ballot. I have a feeling that recent Republican redistricting made my ballot extra lousy but I don't know for sure this being my first vote.
bit trollent
As a non-American reading and watching the coverage of the US election, I can't help but think that Americans should be ashamed. In what is considered (at least by Americans themselves) to be the world's shining example of democracy in action (I know, the US is a republic ...) we have seen reports of:
1. Republican Party van's tires being slashed, delaying the ability of the party to help drive people to vote.
2. Phone calls being made suggesting the election is actually on November 3.
3. Accusations of fraud by both sides.
4. Attempts to have the right to challenge the eligibility of voters by the Republican Party (presumably voters who would be more likely to vote for the Democrats).
This is just a small sample of the attempts to influence the outcome of the election through dubious/immoral/illegal means that I have seen. I can understand the parties wanting to win the election, and putting up a good fight, and even looking at recounts for close results, but so many of the things I've heard or read have been way over the line of what any sane individual would consider right or fair.
The site, which tracks state-by-state polling data to project the outcome of the presidential race, is operated by academic Andrew Tanenbaum, based in the Netherlands, the author of the Minix microkernel. It was referenced on slashdot.org yesterday (11/1) as well, revealing that Andrew Tanenbaum was the site master
----
Live internet load on my blog
What your vote does count for is telling the electoral college their chances of getting re-appointed to their position. If the votes represent a statistical winner then they better vote that way or they may not be voting much longer themselves.
-----
Web Hosting @ HostForADollar.com
If you are not in a swing state, you still need to vote. Whoever wins the electoral college wins the presidency, but the popular vote determines the authority the President can wield.
I've always said that someone needs to hack a machine in a trivial state that won't affect the outcome of an election and change the votes to 100% for a minor candidate.
The downside is that the hacker will spend some time in a federal prison, but the voting machine craze may end there.
"Bush used to be a alcohol (and possibly cocaine) addict."
What is so bad about liking Beer? Im sure just about everyone has had their fair share of beer. I woudn't be to surprised if Kery had a bit to much to drink in his younger years too, if he has not then he ain't down to earth with the rest of america.
I suggest you look into the concept of satire. Yes, they're meant to be funny. Not informative or helpful, or ethical. Funny.
And they are. The Giant Douche / Turd Sandwich episode was downright hi-friggin-larious, ripped on both sides of the aisle and PETA in the process. If you didn't think it was funny.... I dunno. Maybe you should flick your funny bone or something.
"Times have not become more violent. They have just become more televised."
-Marilyn Manson
My voting today (Georgia/diebold machine) had one apparent mechanical and/or software glitch. Inserting my card into the diebold machine, I got a click.... no start screen. I had to shove it in again, then got another click, then the machine went to the start screen for voting. I don't know what the significance of that is. I double checked my vote before recording it, and it looked OK. I did a write in, so I'll be checking later on when the stats are available to see if it was counted. In 2002, it *wasn't*.
Who did I vote for? More like WHAT I voted for, why the best form of government there is, and that is gridlock!
I'm a first time voter and I asked how to do a write-in on the machines here. The first poll worker asked me if I was voting for Mickey Mouse, told me it messes everything up, and that I didn't want to do it. The next told me she didn't know and would have to get the book out and start reading. Fortunately there happened to be an election official from the county present, who showed me how to do it, and even comforted me by saying that there are a lot of write ins today. He also gave me his number so he could personally replace my voter registration card, which the poll workers had "lost."
Dear poll workers, sorry about "messing everything up," and fuck you.
I am confident that my write in vote will not be counted unless that election official is hanging over their heads.
Horray for the republic?
Spoon not. Fork, or fork not. There is no spoon.
Electoral system reform
The most pressing need, today, is a radical re-examination of voter registration procedures and voting procedures to eliminate vote fraud. I cannot stress this enough--the election today will be stolen; the only question is which side will steal more votes. I deeply regret that statement--but I mean every word of it. The electoral system today is simply a wide-open invitation to several different sorts of vote fraud, and you can be absolutely certain they're happening.
In short--the system is wide open for vote theft. It must be fixed; and there must be a careful scouring of this election to identify where votes have been stolen. And--without fail--those responsible for vote them (duplicate registration, vote theft, etc.) must go to jail. No probation, no community service--bona fide Big House jail time.
The Electoral College
The Electoral College is the most misunderstood feature of American polity. It should not be abolished--to the complete contrary, it should be strengthened; which is to say, it should be restored to how it was originally intended. The problem with the EC in most states is that each state is a "winner takes all" race: win the heavily-populated parts of California, and you can ignore the rest of the state. Win Houston and Dallas, and you can ignore the rest of Texas. Win New York City, and don't waste your time on upstate.
If EC votes were counted for each congressional district, with the winner of the EC votes in the state getting the bonus two "Senate" votes, it would have the immediate effect of taking major media buys out of the campaign. You couldn't run a last-minute attack ad campaign--you wouldn't have flash-in-the-pan candidates like Howard Dean or Jimmy Carter appearing out of the woodwork. You'd have to communicate--and convince--voters in every part of the country, rather than focus on a limited number of media markets in "swing" states. You'd have a lot less noise, and a lot more signal.
There is such a thing as the Law of Unintended Consequences. And one likely consequence of such a thing would be that fewer people would be likely to vote: because there would be less television noise, and because the campaigns would have to persuade, not sloganeer. Most consumers in America respond to ads--not to Op Ed page articles. Political campaigns would tend toward Op Ed types--hopefully that would mean more thoughtful voters.
IMHO the most effective place for the LP to start is getting some Libertarian Judges elected. Judgeships are usually not as highly disputed as Legislative or Executive offices, but they hold a LOT of power.
The election of judges is one of the worst possible ways to "make things better" in this country.
Our government has a system of "checks and balances" between the executive (The President), legislative (Congress), and judiciary (Supreme Court) branches. The best way is for "The People" to elect the the executive and legislative branches of government, and have judges appointed as some type of compromise between those branches. This is what currently happens with the U.S. Supreme Court.
Unfortunately, many states have been moving towards a system that makes judges an elected office, just like governors and state representatives. This is a horrible, horrible idea.
For our system of checks and balances to work, judges must be impartial regarding issues that come before them. Sure, judges are human beings too, with political beliefs, preferences, and different methods for interpreting the law. Obviously, these preferences will affect the way judges look at cases. However, by nature of an appointment, a judge is not required to pander to rule of the mob and can work independently without fear of losing their jobs because of an unpopular decision. This is the purpose of having them as a check to unbridled power in the executive and legislative branches.
Unfortunately, if you make judges elected, then you throw away the whole purpose of having them as checks and balances to mob rule by the legislative and executive branches. Rulings become less based on law (which, btw, is frequently written by those other branches) and more based on what it takes to get re-elected.
Having judges pander to the mob that will re-elect them is an incredibly dumb idea simply because they no longer have the freedom they need to operate as a check and balance. Also, how can you work as an impartial arbitrator, as a judge, you take campaign contributions and know that a "wrong" vote might bury your career, even if that vote is just following the law as written by the legislature or enshrined in the Constitution? If a judge accepts $100,000 from Microsoft for his campaign, do you want that judge deciding a case where you sue Microsoft over breach of warranty?
Other politicians besides judges accept campaign contributions. But those other politicians have no obligation to be fair and impartial to all who come before them. Judges, however, must frequently decide questions of law in ways that might not be popular, but are "right" because of the way that the law has been written. If this happens, blame your legislator or the framers of the Constitution. Or, better yet, blame the voters who put those people in power. Don't blame the judges for simply doing their job and following the law.
I live in Albuquerque, New Mexico, and just voted using the Shouptronic electromechanical voting machines. The candidate slate is printed over a backlit grid of illuminated buttons. A green VOTE button locks in and records the choices. Votes are recorded to a hard-drive memory. There is no verifiable paper trail.
When I pressed the 'Kerry/Edwards' button, the 'Libertarian ticket' button lit up, selecting all libertarian candidates for me. Two tries later, I had a light next to Kerry/Edwards. Many other choices were similarly difficult to press correctly. The candidate slate is printed on stiff plastic, so a press often jams down several of the buttons behind it at once.
A google search on Shouptronic revealed that they may have been used in New Hampshire in the 2000 primary to get Bush the votes in that state, and that the founder of the company was fined and sentenced for illegal activities in regard to another election in a different state.
All in all, I prefer the way I did it in California, with a paper ballot, completing clear arrows next to my choices, then feeding it in to a tabulator. I knew that in the event of a recount, there was a paper trail, and it was easy to mark the correct choice.
As the owners of the companies that make voting machines are all wealthy, and the wealthy stand to benefit inordinately from a Bush win, it's no stretch to imagine the massive fraud that may be perpetrated today.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
Whoever wins tomorrow, you will return to your scheduled lives of greed, selfishness and exploitation.
That is who you are, and that is how you think. The danger to the world is not the Republicans, the Democrats or even the Project For The New American Century. It's the mindset of the common American.
(1) He's fiscally conservative -- if you ignore his record, or his plans for healthcare .. 5.7 billion people in the world. -- so Bush is an isolationist? ... and on and on. -- which is why he wants to go back to pre-9/11 security standards
(2) He's socially liberal (no bigotry here!) -- he's also said that life begins at conception, and doesn't accept gay marriage
(3) He's environmentally friendly -- he voted down the Kyoto protocols
(4) His foreign policy acknowledges the other
(5) He's actually aware of national security
Also, that "100,000 Iraqis killed" study has long since debunked. Even in the study report itself, it says it estimates there were somewhere between 8,000 and 250,000 civilian deaths.
That's like a poll coming out that says Bush will get between 4% and 90% of the vote.
[PowerPoint] is a tool for capitalist presentation
A plea from across the pond ... Write in Tony Blair.
He is better than either Bush or Kerry. And we don't want him. Perfect solution all round.
flossie
Write now. Defend liberty
The Douche/Turd Sandwich episode was as predictable as it was unenlightening as it was unfunny. As far as I can tell, the whole purpose of the ep was to justify the brouhaha over Trey and Stone telling people to not vote.
The only good political satire came right at the very end, when Stan finally voted.
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
In order to show how easy it was to delete audit log records off of Diebold central tabultor computers, Blackboxvoting.org taught a chimpanzee how to do it.
- None can love freedom heartily, but good men; the rest love not freedom, but license. -- John Milton
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=lorain+na der Alreadty there are disenfranchised voters. I pushed out hte chad next to the "removed candidate" option...wonder what they're going to do about it?
Noun 1. douche bag - a small syringe with detachable nozzles; used for vaginal lavage and enemas
And a noteworthy 18th century aristocrat.
Scenario 1: Bush wins.
Result: I am a little sad. Hippies VERY sad.
Conslusion: Hippies being SO sad is a like a consolation prize: it makes me a little happy.
Scenario 2: Kerry wins.
Result: I am happy. Hippies VERY happy.
Conclusion: I am happy, but at the same time the hippies thinking their protests and die-ins and vegan-eating actually might have worked will only provoke more of this in 2008.
Name one instance in the history of the world in which one nation invaded another nation (the nation invaded was NOT the aggressor), setup a puppet government, and everything went on happy and peacefully for the next 30 years.
I want to see some proof that this idea works - without the use of a despotic regime threatening to kill people if they don't support it.
True democracy comes FROM the people, it isn't forced onto them by an outside power!
1. He's not Bush.
paintball
You know, everyone has stated it that way, rather than "Vote or Die"... but I seriously think he should be wearing a shirt (so he's talking about himself in the third person) with "Vote, or P. Diddy will kill you."
You must be young, because there were hundreds of reports about U.S. training of terrorists in the newpapers and magazines in the 1980's.
You are the only person I've encountered who says it didn't happen. Numerous CIA agents, and mere visitors to Afghanistan at the time say it did.
It's sad. Many people believe the political rhetoric, and think my post can't be true.
Read books! You cannot be well-informed unless you do.
You wonder???
Shame on you for not finding out months ago and fighting tooth and nail.
"But all your emitter and collector are belong to me!"
apologies to M. Night Shyamalan. ~
Ethics II Axiom 2. "Man thinks." B. Spinoza
I know you must be joking, but that is a very stupid way to look at voting. It is like saying that since one person's taxes wouldnt make even a miniscule dent on the goverment's budget, that the government should stop collecting taxes.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
I don't disagree with the viewpoint you're listing here. It's new to me, and I really appreciate seeing it. I will be researching it to see if I agree after reflection.
But are you asserting that Bush falls in this category too? Bush whose administration pushed agencies into giving false and misleading intelligence, the same administration that knowingly used false intelligence (documents about Iraq attempting to purchase plutonium), to support a war with Iraq? The same administration that continues to attempt to tie Iraq to 9/11, and is pushing to define US policy wholesale based on a one time tragic event in which 3000 people died? (>40,000 died the same year in traffic accidents.) The same administration that passed the so-called Patriot Act, and carefully established that no US or international law applies to the people in Guantanmo, so we can treat them however we like? The same administation that gave billions of taxpayer money to Halliburton in a no-bid contract? The same administration that is perpetuating the expanding divide between rich and poor with one-sided tax cuts, and at the same time reduces funding to educational and environmental programs, and still manages to run up the national debt by almost a half trillion dollars a year? The same administration that asked Enron to help define national energy policy?
Is this administration going to give us something to make up for what they've taken away, or are my children going to be paying 50% taxes to pay the interest on the national debt and to pay the salary of all of the snitches employed to listen in on their phone calls and watch them on infrared camera, while we kill tens of thousands of civilians in some oil field somewhere and ignore racial cleansing in Africa?
I do enjoy a good piss into the wind while picking my belly button lint.
-----
Web Hosting @ HostForADollar.com
you are more unlikely to affect the outcome than you are likely to win the daily number drawing in any given state.
And yet somebody still ends up winning the lottery anyway, for exactly the same reason candidates still get millions of votes. when F = X * Y, as X approaches zero, F does not necessarily approach zero if Y is simultaneously approaching infinity while X is approaching zero. (X = worth of your individual vote, Y = population of voters, F = the worthiness of the voting process).
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
I find it interesting that many people still hold to the idea that the Stalinist method of telling the populous to accept what they are given because those in power know what it best for them. And, strangely enough, we even find that here on slashdot. People who ignore the fact that the Kimer Rouge killed the intellectuals, and anybody who they suspected to be one (ie, wearing glasses), because the Kimer Rouge was in power and did not want to tolerate dissenting opinions. I am not saying people cannot have that sort of opinion here, but it seems to me that opinion is somewhat like suicide for an intellectual.
Telling people they are too ignorant to vote and taking their vote away is a crime. Ignorance can be corrected with wisdom. Disenfranchisement historically is corrected by war.
I grow concerned when I see members of any party who violate the principles of our representative government. These villains, who interfere with voter registration, steal signs, block phone banks, intimidate voters, and what other crimes they think of, these criminals are no better than the third world corrupt political thugs we read about in the international news.
Many immigrants who I have met from socialist and communist states often do not complain as much about a 'poor economy' but instead a government who did not let them choose their own destinies and who to vote for.
If you feel that people are ignorant, then make it a moral imperative to tell the truth, and get the facts out.
Taking the franchise away from the ignorant is like treating your populous like serfs in a feudal state, slave to the decisions of a government that owns them.
Political debate is a useful tool only when the debaters acknowledge the right of the other debaters to have the opinion they have, and to be willing to think about the situation with data that supports or does not support their political hypothesis. You dont have that kind of feed back when you take away the franchise of the ignorant. Many people here hate it when a Pointy Haired Boss refuses to look at the data and take corrective action, and detest the PHB when the boss tells them to shut up. Think about that analogy.
Who decides who is 'too ignorant to vote'? The winners of the war you start with disenfranchising actions based upon that opinion. The end result is a war where the living tell the dead that they are too ignorant to vote, and those in power tell the slaves they are too ignorant to vote.
You cannot have my vote, and I will fight to defend the votes of others, regardless of their opinions. Just like many of them have served in our military and fought to defend me and my franchise, you and yours. This is what makes the United States of America an admired country, not some know-it-all lawyer in office who has all the answers.
I know it's offtopic, but I just thought you should know. I randomly mod you down whenever I have the points. :D
This space intentionally left blank
http://217.160.163.211/globalvote2004/
And its a landslide. We the people (of the world) don't want no cowboy!
A pity Australia was one of the continents with the most support for bush.
Considering that many of these assinine programs/budget cuts have affected myself as a college student DIRECTLY, then I sure as fucking hell am going to vote for the candidate who best represents MY interests, while reducing my chances of getting killed (boy, I bet the Army would LOVE for me to be serving in Iraq right now!).
The entire pro-environmental/build friendly alliances throughout the world thing is just a benefit to boot. After all, when I finally make enough money to travel,
1) I would like there to BE a world to see!
2) I don't want everyone in other countries ready to kill me!
Read more about it in this Indimedia article
Sorry I stopped reading at this point. I tried using them as an alternative news source ages ago but they talk so much drivel. Anything interesting they may have to say is totally drowned out by extremists that call themselves 'activists' spouting either lies or flagrant misrepresentation. It's the news equivalent of Usenet. I'd rather wait for a real activist such as Mark Thomas or equivalent to dig out the gems from sites like Indymedia and actually back it up with research and evidence. Otherwise I'm just wasting my time.
Phillip.
Property for sale in Nice, France
> Voting is not a right. It is an OBLIGATION.
I know of no place in any state where voting is compulsory. I would certainly make it compulsory in my perfect world. But then, I would also make the
slightest government corruption into a capital offense. And offices like the President or Senate seats wouldn't be something you sought, but rather,
something you were conscripted to do, like a military draft.
-fb Everything not expressly forbidden is now mandatory.
Ohio law, for example, does not permit anyone other than voters, election officials, election "challengers", and police in polling places. Outside observers are thus not allowed to be there.
paintball
http://election.cbsnews.com/election2004/ is asserting _thousands_ of electoral votes already cast. Looks like they've got problems.
:-)
Wonder if they're reporting these numbers on TV...
-jbn
Is that when he visited Australia, the Secret Service insisted on wearing weapons inside our Parliament... and for the first time in Australian history weapons were allowed in.
Read Pynchon.
I live in a community small enough that there are 7 precincts voting in the same building (the local Veterans Memorial Hall), but I was still first. The poll workers made me watch while they locked the empty ballot box, then asked me to drop my ballot inside. Apparently there has to be a voter-witness to the fact that the ballot box started the day empty. Who knew?
And yet somebody still ends up winning the lottery anyway
And millions of other people waste their time and money hoping to win it.
"What's the frequency Kenneth?"
Many posts tonight state that people should not vote if they're not intellectual enough, or not caring about who wins or about the issues involved. I'd like to inform everybody of this rebuttal. I'm posting this post anonymous so there's no Karma hoarding:
Everybody should vote in a democracy. There are many reasons, for instance how can a country have faith in somebody elected by 10-20% of the population? Voter turnout is tantamount to the democratic process.
It's also a great way to make people aware of, and care for their country. Everybody should be allowed to vote. It is especially important for minorities to be both politically active and vote. It's a great way to make people interested in the community and widen their horizon to what's going on beyond their own little lives.
You know, people can be intellectual and be 200% wrong on some issues. Just because somebody wins a Nobel prize in chemistry, or is a chess-champion, doesn't mean they are a godhead when it comes to knowing people and international affairs. While others can be very right just based on their gut-feeling. Besides, who are going to decide who gets to vote? Any test and filter would be biased.
We should aim for 100% voter turnout. The numbers have been declining over the years, and that is a real threat to democracy. The only way to ensure democracy and freedom, is to be active and take part in forming your country. Everybody can and should participate, and the process should be as transparent as possible to prevent fraud, corruption and hidden agendas.
This applies to all democratic countries. We should never rest on our laurels and take all we have for granted. That's a sure way to lose it.
There has been a big swing in the odds on offer in the last 12 hours, presumably on the basis of what looks set to be a large turnout, although the prices have fluctuated a little, presumably due to bets coming back onto Republicans as the price improved.
Yesterday : Bush 5/6 Kerry 11/8
Right now : Bush 2/1 Kerry 4/11 (and I have seen it at Bush 3/1 Kerry 1/3 at times in the last couple of hours)
Since I took out my bet when Kerry was 6/4, I am now in the happy position of being able to choose to lay off my bet. But I won't, because I feel even more strongly now than I did last week that Kerry is actually going to win. My prediction then was that Kerry would win, and by a bigger margin than you might expect, thanks to large numbers of new voters who have no previous voting record (upon which most analyses are heavily dependent). If Bush does win, please feel free to come back to this post and give me a good taunting.
My next sig will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush
See the nick.
No, these people are right. It's a waste of time to vote. Don't bother.
(That way, my vote counts more!)
but have you considered the following argument: shut up.
Here's an explanation of how the AP will "provide results in 2004 with the speed and accuracy on which its members and subscribers have learned to rely."
2 204b.html
http://www.ap.org/pages/about/pressreleases/pr_10
there should be space to write in your choice ... here are a few recommendations: Rosa Parks, Fr. Roy Bourgeois, Judy Wright and the list goes on. maybe there should be a humanitarian party - making the presidency of the u.s. equivalent to the nobel peace price ... given out every 4 years.
LOSER! If you don't like any of the candidates, write one in!! You live in a country where you have the right to voice your opinion by casting a vote... yet, you blatantly give up that right! THEN DON"T FARKIN COMPLAIN FOR THE NEXT 4 YEARS, ASSHOLE!!
Meh.
That's nonsense. If you want the president to resolve an international problem without war, should you send him to do it with, or without a credible threat of force in his hands?
"But all your emitter and collector are belong to me!"
This program takes current state polling data, calculates the probabilities of the candidates winning each state, and runs through a large number of simulated elections randomly awarding each state to Kerry or Bush in proportion to their state probabilities. What's cool is that I've made it so that you can put in your own polling data and see how it effects the results. If you think there's a national polling bias one way or the other, you can model that, too. At any rate, check it out and pass it along if you like.
I don't know about you, but there are readers from more then one country here.
I'm not in the US, and I purposely included MEP (Member European Parliment) to emphasize that this was a general comment.
I have RTFC, I've also read the Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
I also get pissed off when columnists consider the Charter/Constitution/Human rights laws "technicalities" that let off criminals.
Yes maybe they get off because of that, but I'd rather the government be in a struggle to control, then to just let them run the whole country.
If you don't participate in the lottery, the ones who did can't use their participation to screw you over. The consequences of not participating are nothing. If non enough people particpate in the election, then a minorty ends up telling the majority how to run their lives.
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
This explanation is available at the bottom of the page you referenced.
FWIW, there's a good analysis coming from the Brits...
db
Cig:
ôô
I've been asking myself why I've been so preoccupied with reading about this election over the last two weeks or so. The reason why I couldn't initially understand it was because I'm not actually American.
Although I normally have a fairly high degree of interest in international politics, the more I think about it, the more I'm able to figure out why this election in particular holds so much importance for me. My country's current prime minister, John Howard, has tried to collaborate with the Bush administration as closely as possible over the last few years...Not only with Iraq, but also with a number of economic agreements, about which the unnoficial word is that they have generally benefitted the Americans far more than they have us.
It's not just about Iraq to me, though. I read somewhere that in the case of some countries, at least, whatever sociological/criminal trends America experiences, other countries tend to experience 5-10 years later. If that's true in this case, then I fear for Australia...and for the stability of the area in which I live.
What I mean by this is that as much as I've tried to read about the election lately, I've been reading other material as well. Material which really does not cast an appealing light on either Bush or Kerry. In Bush's case, there have been a *lot* of reports about how domestically in the US he is apparently trying to convert the country into a full-blown dictatorship, as well as an equal amount of dark speculation about the idea that this election could be portrayed publically as a stalemate even when it isn't, so that the results can then be manipulated in the courts.
The stuff I've been reading about Kerry though make me think that whoever would try and do that, won't need to in this case. The picture I've developed of Kerry tells me that he isn't really any opposition to Bush at all, in any sense, and that he most likely wouldn't do a thing differently if he got into power. I know most people here would probably wipe off the stuff about Kerry and Bush both having been members of Skull and Bones as just more deranged conspiracy theories...but to me, it honestly is scary.
Here's my overall conspiracy theory about this election though...laugh at it and call me a nutcase if you like, but I think it fits:-
Neither Kerry nor Bush either are or will end up being the genuine rulers of the country. There is a third entity (who, I don't know) who is able to choose the candidates in such a way that no matter who gets elected, the third (ruling) entity are able to continue persuing their interests unhindered. (I'm reminded of Palpatine's maneuvers in Attack of the Clones when I think about this, actually)
I think the reason why the 2000 election happened the way it did was because the Democratic candidate in that race was not one of the ruling entity's people, so they had to use whatever means necessary to make sure he didn't get into power.
But I think in this scenario there genuinely *is* a Palpatine wannabe around somewhere, or possibly a group of them. I think people in the US are going to need to find this individual/group, whoever they are, and get rid of them before they're going to be able to have genuinely free elections.
To me, only being able to choose between a couple of people who've been approved by the proverbial man behind the curtain is not the definition of a genuine democracy...it also isn't likely to guarantee a change in policy with a new administration...because even if the old puppet (Bush) gets voted out, the new one still has the same master at the strings.
Remember also...Just because I might be paranoid, doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong. There was a lot of weird stuff about 9/11...things that just didn't fit together and add up if you looked closely at the official story...and I'm not alone in thinking that, either.
I'm possibly going to get replied to by Americans here who will say that I have no business caring about what happens with their election...to which I say th
You're just not a team player. My vote and the votes of my 80 million bestest friends in the world will make a difference. If we all had your attitude we'd lose for sure.
This may be redundant and pointless, but the BBC has a live stream of the election coverage on their website. They report the results as they break.
I am not suggesting anything about anybody being elite.
/.) but that doesn't mean I should be forced to go teach school or write opinions and publish them. The burden is on each and every individual.
The ignorants should inform themselves and make their own decisions. With personal freedoms come individual responsibility. No one said it would be easy - life isn't fair.
It is also not the responsibility of anyone to do anything for anyone else. I happen to have a high IQ (as do many others on
About people that work 14 hours a day - if the government was smaller and took less tax from the people then Americans wouldn't have to spend nearly 1/4 of their day working to pay Uncle Sam instead of keeping the money they have earned for themselves.
We live in a democratic republic - not a socialistic charity state.
Libertas in infinitum
Yes I completely agree with you! It is ashame that balance was removed.
:-(
Also I think this measure was passed around the same era as the income tax wasn't it?
Libertas in infinitum
" LOSER! If you don't like any of the candidates, write one in!! You live in a country where you have the right to voice your opinion by casting a vote... yet, you blatantly give up that right! THEN DON"T FARKIN COMPLAIN FOR THE NEXT 4 YEARS, ASSHOLE!!"
YOU DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO VOTE FOR PRESIDENT. IT IS A PRIVILEGE. HOW MANY TIMES DO I HAVE SAY THIS?
The Constitution allows state legislatures to choose any method they want to pick electors. All states allow people to vote for who they want to represent them in the Electoral College. Every state legislature can change the way they choose electors at any time, meaning yes, they could eliminate voting for President.
In fact, South Carolina, until 1860, had its legislature directly choose electors without a general election of any sort.
Thus you don't have the right to vote for President, you MERELY get a privilege to vote for your slate of electors for the Electoral College.
A note about "challengers". The people working at my ward (01044G and H combined) said the challenger stated that they could merely watch the voting process, not actually challenge the right of anyone to vote. Interesting.
They also wondered why there were so many people with ID/voting card (didn't realize there was an advertising blitz going on-must have ID, can't be prevented from voting, blah, blah, etc.-heck I barely watch TV and only listen to radio and have been bombarded with that spiel....)
I had to wait an hour and a half, which was pretty good (pathetic) apparently. The other ward at the same location was worse. This was starting at 4:30pm. It wasn't any better the rest of the day according to poll workers-they hadn't had time for lunch/break since getting there in the morning. The main problem was that they had four machines (the other ward had more, I think) and one machine was out of service for a while (either hardware error or someone voted on it that had to do a provisional ballot, I don't really know). Electronic. Brand unknown-they have been this way for years.
Polls aren't going to close at 7:30pm...(closer to (9:30pm probably, at least for those in line at 7:30pm).
Location was poor-unused storefront in a mall. Imagine two long lines of people (down center of mall) trying to snake into narrow entrance. Oh, and people had to get out by the same entrance. Insufficient room/organization to process people. The poll workers almost begged us to complain to the county board of elections....
So, went smoothly, except for the incompetent moron in charge of the process(Hey, we are expecting a record turn out, so lets only provide a few voting machines to each ward so we will have massive lines). Can't wait to hear the excuses-voting shouldn't take this long in a developed country. Of course, if your goal is to get new voters never to vote again....
THIS is the reason I think electronic voting is a BAD IDEA. If you have X machines, you can't deal with record turn outs (because they will never buy enough machines.....) It would have been better with paper, pencil/pen, and some optical scanners. Cheaper and would scale better.
Jesus!!! Tried to get in here earlier today, and the darn thing was /.ed!!!! how funny.
Karma: Bad is the liberal way of saying this guy won't drink the kool aid here on slash dot. I wear my Karma with pride
As expected Kentucky went to Bush and passed the friggen' no civil union amendment, but incumbant Republican Senator Jim Bunning is getting trounced by Democratic challenger Daniel Mongiardo 53% to 47%.
Time is what keeps everything from happening all at once.
If enough people didn't participate in the election, a 'wait a minute' realization would take place, and likely, fundamental and deep political change would occur.
Not saying it would necessarily be a good thing, of course.
"What's the frequency Kenneth?"
You're mistaken. Read the Globalvote 2004 stats again. Australia had the second lowest support for Bush at 8.5% (681 votes). And judging by the general sentiment here, it will be a sad day for most of us if Bush were to be re-elected.
Use ISO 8601 dates [YYYY-MM-DD]
I figure there are enough sci-fi geeks here to appreciate this (original by me):
"There is nothing wrong with your election. Do not attempt to adjust your vote. We are controlling everything. If we wish to support a candidate, we will increase the votes. If we wish to defeat a candidate, we will tune them out. We will control the House. We will control the Senate. We can roll the Courts, making them useless. We can reduce the issues to a soft blur or sharpen them to crystal clarity. For the next four years sit quietly and we will control all that you see and hear. We repeat: there is nothing wrong with your election. You are about to participate in a great adventure. You are about to experience the awe and mystery which reaches from your life to... The Diebold Limits."
Chris
(who knows too much about computers and opted to vote on paper)
Improving performance from app architecture to microcode.
= 9J =
On Fox and other news programs, the talking heads are using the politically correct phrase "Corporate Democracy" and "Corporate Republic" .... The domestic enemies of the USA Constitution have defeated US. What you gonna do ... become a cash-ass-kisser or professional butt-licker ... exploit the citizen or ....
A pluralist democracy of the citizens no longer exist in the USA, and I did not here much about fighting corporate tyranny or rebuilding the USA Citizen Democracy for US and our children, by any politician.
Unaccountable leaders are masters, and unrepresented people are slaves. How do US and EU fare?
..and this is more severe. I was checking up on the counts so far, and realised that my machine skipped a whole page of ballot initiatives. I had forgotten how many there were, I saw two and I think there were 8 or so total. Either it skipped a page or I REALLY spaced out. I admit it's my fault,I should have rememberd, and had a checklist with me (I try to remember, obviously I blew it) but still...seems weird to me. And those data lines connected, going away to who knows where...and no backup paper trail either... I just don't like them. Up to one election ago I voted with a piece of paper that got dropped into a wooden box. Seemed to work OK. I like computers, but not for voting, not this system anyway. And the cost? I voted in a tiny rural firehouse, just barely enough room to garage two small near antique firetrucks, which is what they own. Just the cost of those ballot machines in there (5 total diebold machines) would pay for say a significant part of their yearly fuel bill or something.
Use ISO 8601 dates [YYYY-MM-DD]
Pardon me, but I think you meant to say:"just like that wonderful nail-biting excrement of 2000"
db
Cig:
ôô
Arthur C. Clarke described a similar system in "Fountains of Paradise". A president was randomly chosen from the general population, and everytime someone showed interest in the job, the system disqualified them. The better the job the president does, the quicker they're let go and are free to go back to their normal life.
A character in the book said something along the lines of "We want a president who'll have to be dragged kicking and screaming into office, and then do the best job they can so that they get time off for good behaviour."
Why have the search results changed at google to include georgewbush.com as the second ranked result when you click on the google banner, earlier this morning I could have sworn neither candidate had a page in the first page of results.
Two imperialist war mongers - tough choice indeed...
Oh well, what the hell...
http://www.electoral-vote3.com/
through
http://www.electoral-vote8.com/
come on guys. watching cnn from europe it looks like a report from tv afganistan. they just report the votes count so far (9 ET)! how long do they want to do this? sind decades, scientists created models to count early polls, exit polls and polls before the election together to get projections with error margins of around 5-10% at least.
why do the tv stations stop using them, just because they made false projections four years ago - in an election so close, nobody has to be shameful to have beeing wrong sometime during the night?!
PAT
SEO Test: TIGI und SEBASTIAN - Online Shop - V
Similar procedure where I voted, except they checked our IDs and had us sign a voter card which they placed in a big pile of voter cards and then had us line up in a different line while we waited for them to verify our district. Then 30-40 minutes later a different person than the one that checked my ID called my name and had me leave the line to come up and get my "voting slip". The slips were given out in no apparent order, so it would not seem unusual to be delivering slips to people later in the line than someone who already had a slip. Our voting slip was a 2x2 piece of standard white copy paper with my district number ("11") written on it in sloppy black Sharpie Marker. The slip of paper clearly had been used several times before hand, and the line ranged all over with people getting in and out of line. (It was in a grocery store and they had an ad for the Deli in the middle of the winding line.) The lady four or so people ahead of me in line I never saw until just before we were to the front of the line. She had been sitting someplace else with her baby and her husband was holding her place in line.
New York is the state that has been hit yet THEY are voting Democrats.
It looks now as though exactly what I told my friends would happen, is happening. I told them, "I'm going to vote for Kerry, and then be extremely sad to see Bush win anyway." Bush is pulling ahead. I expect he will be declared the winner in the next 2 hours.
All I can say is how disappointed I am with my fellow voters. I'm sure the Bush fans will find that nonsensical, and I'm sure the Bush voters are quite happy to cast a ballot based upon their moral compass. But IMHO, their vote means more allies will abandon the USA; the dollar will become even weaker as people, banks, and governments consider us less meaningful to their world; more Americans will find themselves pretending to be Canadians as they vacation around the world; we will be less successful exporting our laws, our entertainment/media, and our policies to other countries (hmm, possibly the only good to come of this); our rights as citizens and human beings will continue to erode; and Iraq will become our new Vietnam.
But beyond any of that, what makes me saddest is that none of the people who vote for Bush this time around will look back 4 years from now and connect the dots. Every bad thing that happens will be explained away or ignored. None of the consequences we are about to experience as a nation will be associated with our actions today.
My Greasemonkey scripts for Digg &
Small, the Democrat running an uphill battle to unseat the popular Sen. Charles Grassley, R-Iowa, has stuffed all the remnants of his campaign into a used RV emblazoned with the motto, "Think Big -- Vote Small" and is selling the entire package on eBay.
CAMPAIGN IN A VAN!! ALL YOU NEED TO RUN FOR US SENATE!!
I've read a lot of non-US people talk about how if we re-elect Bush, that'll say a lot about what this country thinks: basically ratifying all that he's done these past 4 years.
Well, even if we vote him out, with such a small margin (as it's looking to be...), why should non-Americans think that the country as a whole disagrees with him? That 45% to 55% (if it's even that much) means that half the country thought that what the President did was the "Right Thing" (tm).
Something to think about...
I [may] disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.
For those of us too lazy to keep track of which states are going what way, but tired of waiting for the major news sources to make predictions...
Interactive Electoral College Map for 2004 Presidential Election
The board starts with the stuff we expected. Clicking on the states changes them from undecided/unreported to republican/democrat.
Combine with your favorite news source for state-by-state poll information, and you can predict the outcome for yourself.
So, curiously, if Bush were to win, what's stopping Europeans from trying to make up with us, or vica versa?
I mean, I understand how Europeans all think Bush is the anti-Christ, despite the fact that he's really done nothing against them (except Kyoto and steel tariffs, the former of which was of rather dubious value, the latter of which is now lifted) besides invade a country without their explicit approval. But, you know, saying you want to be friends anyways would probably go a lot farther than just making vague threats and FUD accusations.
Whoever wins this election isn't going to have done it by bashing European countries for their lack of support on Iraq. It is widely perceived that quite a few European politicians came into power by being anti-US. You can't play this game of "we expect the US to do as we say while we bash them in our own elections". It won't work, and if you think Americans didn't notice, think again.
You catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Lighten up the rhetoric, and maybe Americans will pay more attention to you. Maybe if you took a little time from feeling sympathetic to people who blow up your trains and citizens and started trying to understand your closest ally, you'd make more progress, too.
The citizens of the US don't _want_ wars, especially not with their allies. This bizarre paranoia of "will the US invade Europe and everyone else and take over the world?" is so divorced from reality that you've got to wonder about who the hell is running the media over there. You heard it here first, kids: the US isn't attacking Europe.
In any event, the election is a close one. And even people who voted for Bush don't want to get into a pointless and senseless ideological fight with Europe. Even those people on the evil religious right don't want everyone to hate them - but it takes two people to have a real friendship. Thus, _give Bush another chance_. If he acts the same way he did before, hey, you were right. If he doesn't (and, frankly, he doesn't have the manpower to do anything else you're going to hate), maybe it's time to bury the hatchet and extend a friendly hand. Forgiving people is a virtue for everyone, atheist or religious.
Food for thought, anyways.
-Erwos
Plausible conjecture should not be misrepresented as proof positive.
Take the layoff. Take the layoff. Take the layoff.
My next sig will be ready soon, but subscribers can beat the rush
They have obviously been put to good use. Or so some would think.
"It is a greater offense to steal men's labor, than their clothes"
This is fucking hopeless. The country is full of nothing but mad cowboys, fag-bashers and knuckle-draggers. And I mean that in the nicest possible way....
We, as the geek community, need to acquire a Diebold voting machine and inspect it closely. We need to put it in a lab, set it up as an election machine, reproduce the environment, and see exactly what it does. We need to report the results in a way that are reproducible and understandable to the world.
s fl-pcpaper26oct26,0,5649106.story?coll=sfla-news-p alm )
Consider that in Florida, where Diebold was used in several counties, the exit polls showed a 8-percent spread in favor of Kerry. The official results are much different. Consider also that Diebold is a contributor to the Republican Party.
Also consider, that the Republican Party fought legal battles to ensure the touch screen voting systems in Florida are NOT REQUIRED to have a paper trail. That in itself is disturbing. (Here's a South Florida newspaper story about this: http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/palmbeach/
This is not a conspiracy theory (yet), but simply a loose end that needs to be tracked down, carefully.
We are the ones to do it.
Just in time for Recount 2004: The 12 Days of Elections: (Sung to 12 days of christmas)
On # day of elections my voters gave to me:
A state where winning was key
2 hanging chads
3 third parties
4 challengers
5 votes that count
6 thousand lawyers
7 dead men voting
8 spinners spinning
9 judges judging
10 speakers speaking
11 folks still watching
12 founders weeping
Copyright 2004 Justin Wick and Thomas Womack
Enjoy!*
*NOTE: DO NOT ATTEMPT TO SING AS A ROUND
Unfortunately, I don't think this helped as much as was touted. The "young" vote requires at least the level of responsibility to show up at the polls and vote -- or at least fill out a form to vote. While the many 'rock the vote' campaigns were noble in their purpose (and I respect the idea), it's ultimately flawed in that the younger you are, the more irresponsible you most likely are. Irresponsible people have a habit of not doing things they say they're going to do -- like vote. There are plenty of exceptions. . . and plenty of responsible young people. But the total majority counts in voting.
FORTUNE FAVORS IRONY
...sick. How ignorant do you have to be to ignore this , or that ?
Innocent people die everyday and it is the US government that kills them. For nothing.
Osama and other threats are still for real while your country is fucking with Iraqi, people that never attacked you in the first place.
Shame on you...
According to an interesting thread over at democraticunderground.com, some pecular findings have come up from comparing exit polls and election results. According to the thread, several swing states and every state using e-voting without a paper trail (which has previously been shown to be vulnerable to tampering) showed a ~5 point disparity towards Bush. In every state which used e-voting with a paper trail, the election results matched the exit polls.
Considering the source, though, I'm taking this with a very large grain of salt, particularly because some peculiarities were hinted at in the exit polls themselves.
Anyone else notice that CNN's exit polls changed dramatically after the polls closed? Both Ohio and Florida showed Kerry winning the exit polls around 9 pm, but now both states show Bush ahead in the exit polls. Is there an explanation for this? I had assumed the numbers were from polling people leaving the actual polling places, so they shoulden't change after the polls close.
I already posted this to another story, but it probably fits better here.
Like many outside the US, I recognise the significance of these elections for the world as a whole, and I've been watching with interest.
I have a strong view on who I would prefer to be your next president, but I'll gloss over it since I don't think it's relevant to this post. What's scaring me the most is all these reports of queueing for hours to vote, not being able to vote for a valid candidate, thousands of votes being registered before the polls even opened, etc.
For reference, for a general election here in the UK (where we choose our MPs, and thus the party that will form the government) I go round the corner to a local church hall, vote by putting a cross in the correct box, and I'm home five minutes later. Even without all the dodgy voting machine antics, the very fact that you guys need to queue for hours just to cast your vote is incredible!
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
It's interesting that everyone is watching the presidential election, but very few comments here concern the congress/senate seats that are up for grabs. It's surprising, for Slashdot, that no-one's noticed people like Fritz Hollings stepping down, for example. Given the strong views of a few specific congresscritters/senators on various geek-related matters, does anyone have a breakdown of how the usual suspects are doing?
If you disagree, post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like.
In 1996, I was an "election worker trainee" as part of a school program to get students interested in civics. My job was to be one of the people who helped out if people had trouble with the machine and reset the machine for the next voter after they were done.
My state had some very old mechanical voting booths with levers for each candidate or party lines and one big lever for closing and opening the curtain. When you were done voting you were supposed to pull the lever to open the curtain and your votes would be recorded. Anyway sometimes people would have problems and despite being told no fewer than THREE times not to pull the big lever until voting was complete they would use it to open the cutain and ask me a question, at which point the only thing I could say was that they had voted and i'm sorry but you can't vote again.
This is a problem with all current anonymous systems since you can't match the voter to the vote. The scary part about your post was that you pushed "cast ballot" while you were still uncertain about your vote BEFORE consulting the election worker, thereby ensuring that any mistakes will be uncorrectable. It seems to have worked out for you this time, but I can't stress enough that everyone must be sure of their ballot BEFORE casting. The election workers are there to help you.
Can you be Even More Awesome?!
As the Daily Show so aptly put it, "Election DAY" is an antiquated term. And it looks like we may have to wait 10 days before we know how Ohio goes. How about a new article to take the load off this one?
---If you can't trust a nerd, who can you trust?
According to Gallup's mega-final-ultra poll out Sunday evening, 30 percent of registered voters in Florida have already voted, either through early voting or by absentee. Of those who have already voted, Kerry leads President Bush 51 percent to 43 percent.
According to the Des Moines Register poll out late Saturday evening, 27 percent of Iowa adults have already voted. And among those Kerry leads 52 percent to 41 percent.
The exit polls were clearly wrong, and were perhaps wishful thinking by Democratic pols. The final results show, as they have sometimes shown in the past, the unreliability of exit polls, particularly when turnout is heavy.
Wouldn't it make much more sense to just switch to a jury-duty service style system for selecting public servants and public offices. A purely random lottery would be held every four years for pres, two for reps and six for oligar...er...aristoc...um..senators. And have the pay level commeserate with the level paid for jury duty. Simple solution. I mean, yeah, so some downs syndrom patient might end up in control of the "big red button", but it can't be any worse than what we've lived with for the last four years, and MUCH cheaper, too.
And while we're at it, let's switch to a purely sales-tax based taxation system. A flat 30% ought to do it. Makes everything nice and squared away. All you so-called "conservatives" can go and yell "woo-freakin-hoo" about having a cheap government, and all you "liberals" can continue to rely upon the government to be yo' daddy. I mean, it's not like the founding fathers were trying to get RID of a priveliged and un-questioned ruling class or anything. No reason to think of having some "un-qualified" (read as commoner) person in office. You know, like some common actor (Regan?) or some common thief (Nixon?) or some common Playa (Clinton?) or some common warmonger (FDR?) or some common socialist (Carter?) or some common religious fanatic (Bush I, Bush II?).
A bunch of screwed up people with no concept of the price of living or what it's like to try and find a job.
I've seen the word "qualified" thrown around in this discussion, however, what, exactly does that mean? How is Bush II "qualified" to select appointments for senior positions, judges, and vetos? He probably has little concept of what the taste of generic peanut butter is. Capiche? And as for Kerry....AT LEAST HE WENT TO A WAR! Then came home and remained wealthy, privilaged, etc. What a pair to choose from. Good thing I voted high, otherwise I might remember what mistake I made.
Leaving this decision up to a group of people who "must see TV." The mind boggles, and rings with echoes of "but Saddam..." this and "but Saddam..." that. Question....WHAT has Saddam F. Hussein EVER done to you? Did he piss in your rice crispies?
But don't get me wrong. I'm all for war. Depopulation at anytime is a good thing.
Pro-war != Anti-abortion.
Either you want to send them to "jezuz" or NOT. And, frankly, since EVERYONE loves babies, why not send them, too? I mean, you don't get to see jezuz until you're dead, and jezuz MUST love babies, so get to killin those babies. Puppies and kittens, too! Don't worry, we can paint them brown, first, so you don't feel so bad about it.
More government involvement != Better families
Hey there, democrat! Yeah, you with the t-shirt! Don't you realize that social services LOSES children on a daily basis? Wouldn't those children be better off at home with a parent? Less chance of losing them.
Just my $0.39 worth (adjusted for inflation)
And please, don't let the world's most successful democracy be reduced to a joke with a repeat of last election's Floridan antics.
There hasn't been a repeat of Florida. President Bush has won a clear victory. John Kerry has apparently conceded, which would demonstrate he has more character than Al Gore had.
The American people have made their choice, with more people voting than have voted in years. Do you have the grace to accept it? Consider it a test of your love for America.
Oh god damnit! I should have known hippies are unreliable when it comes to anything that can be construed as work.
I disagree, and am already proven right by the fact that it is *already* the case that such elections have occurred (where the turnout was pathetic enough it should have triggered a "wait a minute" realization).
Don't label something "offtopic" unless you know the topic well enough to tell what's on topic.
VOTE COMMUNIST! VIVA MARX!
Hello world
Ignore the fact that I've bought lottery tickets in the past... {sneaks away quietly}
This sig has absolutely no significance and serves only to take up screen space and waste the time of the reader.