Slashdot Mirror
Riot Control Ray-Gun for Use in Iraq
team99parody writes "An 'Active Denial System' weapon that 'fires a 95GHz microwave beam at rioters to cause heating and intolerable pain in less than five seconds'
is scheduled for service in Iraq in 2006
according to CNET and the print version of New Scientist. It was recently tested on people playing the part of rioters at Kirtland Air Force Base in New Mexico where they asked the subjects to remove glass and contact lenses to protect their eyes. Hopefully real rioters will get the same courtesy. Police and the Marines are working on portable versions. Sandia Labs also has a nice writeup on this system with pictures of smaller versions of the weapon."
It's only logical. Our right to peaceably assemble is in the process of being eviscerated, which means that future efforts on the part of the citizenry to protest the increasingly hateful policies of this government will become more and more confrontational, and which in turn sees the government resorting to ever more punitive policies in response.
Prediction: the ray-gun is on the streets in America in time for the 2008 Republican National Convention.
I can't wait to hear what they consider to be acceptable levels of casualties as the result of using this thing on people.
The thing I regret most in this life is that of all the science fiction movies I loved watching as I grew up, Soylent Green ends up being the one that most closely depicts the future.
(I'd rather take my chances on the Nostromo.)
--
Why didn't you know?
This just brings me back to the old USMC days:
A-10 A-10 flying high
drop that napalm from the sky.
See those kids by the river,
drop some napalm watch them quiver.
Napalm it sticks to kids!
Sticks to kids in the orphanage!
See those kids by the lake,
drop some napalm watch them bake.
Napalm it sticks to kids!
Sticks to kids in the orphanage!
See those kids in the hut,
shove some napalm up their butt!
Napalm it sticks to kids!
Sticks to kids in the orphanage!
It could be worse, it could be Monday.
Wheres mine?
If you die horribly on television, you will not have died in vain. You will have entertained us.
--Kurt Vonnegut
That sounds a bit.....dirteh.
[UID-HeinzIntel]
I Wonder whether its usage can contribute to cancer down the track?
"The problem with our economy is that our budget is balanced by people who aren't" - A.E.N.
Ive heard of this earlier (a guant satellite dish which uses mwaves to burn 1/64th of the skin... I think it was discussed on ABC about 3 years ago) Its not a bad concept but now that I think about it, it will likely trigger some sort of massive health crisis once everyone in Iraq gets cancer from this thing :( I think its too inhumane for use.
Viable Slashdot alternatives: https://pipedot.org/ and http://soylentnews.org/
Man, I want this on my car sooooo bad. Cop comes up on your ass and BAM! he has to pull over and ice down. so many practical uses for this another one: seriously messing with your neighbors "is it hot in here or is it me?"
do they run Linux??? Or is something like this only ran by a M$ OS??
I hope that it might be a little more humane than lobbing teargas at someone.
Of course, someone will sue the inventor, the user, his boss, the bosses boss, the company, the government and some guy named Joe - because their cousin's niece's daughter's friend's cat got nuked by that thing...
= Grow a brain...
I meant Giant, not guant :( I hate shifty mice
to make sure this post is not offtopic: I found this link: http://www.mindfully.org/Reform/Microwave-Crowd-Di spersal.htm
Viable Slashdot alternatives: https://pipedot.org/ and http://soylentnews.org/
Think about what that crap does to BRAIN CELLS.
But New Scientist magazine reported Wednesday that during tests carried out at Kirtland Air Force Base in New Mexico, participants playing the part of rioters were told to remove glasses and contact lenses to protect their eyes. In another test they were also told to remove metal objects such as coins from their clothing to prevent local hot spots from developing on their skin.
In real life obviously there are going to be people wearing lenses or carrying metal objects so what gives???
Is Iraq just the guinea pig for our experiments now?
While I certainly support non-lethal weapons in use of riot dispersion, this does not seem safe at all (and certainly, I do not want to be aimed at with microwaves!)
Sometimes I have the feeling that those weapons are just invented to give some government funding to weapon manufacturers, but thats only me.
Microwaves as weapon against people? What's wrong with those people who are involved in the development? Never heard of cancer?
I don't know, but something's completely messed up with the world.
That's the way to win "hearts and minds" of people angry at the US occupation forces: zap them with rayguns. We'll teach them how the 21st Century US welcomes them with "compassionate conservatism", by frying them with rayguns. After sizzling whole towns, there's no way they'll ever listen to insane jihadists telling them that the Great Satan has burned them with hellfire, that we're all better off in a medieval fiefdom under god. Yeah, sticking Iraqis into a microwave oven is exactly the way to get them to calm down, stop their civil war, and break out those flowers they're supposed to be greeting us with.
--
make install -not war
Having one of these mounted on my car would help me with my daily commute.
The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
I see this as a better option than shooting rubber bullets at people or using teargas, but there is one serious problem:
What happens if someone gets trapped in the beam, knocked unconscious for example, and is exposed for a long time? If this device can cause serious burns it probably would be a sure death, as your whole body gets exposed. If burned badly enough (third degree) skin will pretty much drop off...
The real question is, can we trust the weapon operators to use this responsibly?
.: Max Romantschuk
If the pain does not motivate them to leave, maybe the smell of cooking...never mind.
Guess I'm just going to have to start wearing tin foil at these protest rallies.
But W. was right, Iraq is hiding some WMD then ;-)
Let's see, put lasers on commercial jets. Check.
Next, microwave lasers in public places, To Protect You.
Finally, let's mount them on police cars.
I can't say any of this makes me feel safer.
has seen Batman Begins a few too many times.
This isn't as much "normalization" as it is "don't take so many drugs when you're designing tables."
Um... lemme see here... the weapon's being DEPLOYED after being in development for ~ 10 years, contingent on 6 - 8 *months* of testing, while life saving medications take some 25+ years of TESTING after they've been developed before they're released to the public?
:-/
Well I guess the worlds over populated anyway...
--Not to be worried, Pitr fix.
by tin foil?
Is this part of the battle for "winning hearts and minds"?
*ZAP*
Wait, isn't that terrorism? Using this thing could increase terrorism? Fucking wonderful.
"Live as if you'll die tomorrow." Ridiculous. You could die later today.
Heating, intolerable pain, and irreversible genetic mutation! Hooray for technology!
/bad pun
Plus, whoever is struck by one of these can honestly say that ADS cause them physical pain.
I am scientifically inaccurate.
Isn't this weapon the same as the Nazi super weapon from the 80's movie Biggles? http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0090729/plotsummary
What are the counter measures for a device like this? will a thick aluminum shield work, or steel? hmmm..??
Yeah, that's right, I'm sure they're using this to break apart people that are peacefully assembling. It's definitley the long-term goal of the government (particularly in America) so slowly restrict our rights and take over our lives with their hateful policies. And it's just the Republicans too. If it wasn't for them, there would be no evil people in the world. Ever.
Dumbass
Partial Credit: The Engineer's Best friend
"Well, the bridge didn't fall all the way down!"
use the money they spend now to kill people around the world to fund research on something useful to people and not only to the big corporations ...
Could you provide me with the rythm and meter for this nice little ditty?
microwaving people to cool them off has to be the best thing i have ever hear of, GO MANKIND IN YOUR INFINITE WISDOM.
I cant wait till the first time they use this in public and all the metal fillings in people mouths start exploding, their heads eventually going off like an overnuked pizza pop.
This is still preferable to the alternative.
Just ask the guys at Kent State. Or Waco? Tienanmin Square?
Is this some kind of Maser?
"Everything you know is wrong. (And stupid.)"
Moderation Totals: Wrong=2, Stupid=3, Total=5.
Looks like those Utah boys are going to make a killing selling there air conditioners in Iraq. Conspiracy?
Nonlethal weaponry is a horseshit myth.
The term they should have used (and what law enforcement uses now, after more than a few wrongful death lawsuits, is the term of "Less lethal". Did any of the Kirtland Air Force Base participants have a pre existing heart condition? I bet they didnt let pregnant women participate.
Im so glad that when every time one of these proportedly nonlethal weapons pops up its run under a FULL and accurate barrage of labratory and set up tests, which almost never reveal the compounding issues that lead to death in real world enviroments.
The news.com article asks a few of the many lurking questions to this system. We all know this device is going to Iraq to go through real world testing before its used here in the US. Someone is counting on all the "little kinks" that are more than likely deadly will be ironed out under the public eye.
I find it highly ironic that our testing of this indescriminant weapon will be used in our even more indescriminant war.
Terrorists dont use large crowds as weapons, if you stop and think at why this weapon would be needed, its ultimately crowd control on our home front. Now why would we need that? Lakers winning again? I highly doubt it. Someone had a plan when they initated and funded the development of this, and it doesnt look like a good one.
There is truth in humor.
if it's "nonlethal", why can't it be deployed for use at big "riots" in america as well?
why is the department of defense putting so little value on human life? (both its own soldiers and residents of iraq)
...heat up faster?
As there are many different types of metal that people have in/on their body, from decorative piercings to health related (pins from helping broken bones set to fillings in teeth), keys, jewelry.
I dread to think what would happen if you zapped someone with a pacemaker? Or a pregnant lady.
The sicko's that think this shit up should be the first people tested with this, in my opinion.
See my art -> http://herbevore.deviantart.com
Why the heck are mods modding this flame-war up!?! Please mode down the parent (and the other guy).
Well for one, I'm sure people will not put on their tinfoil hats for this... to avoid their heads from being cooked like a baked potato.
It's torture in a can.
Napalm is not used anymore by the US. It has too much of a bad name going with it. Instead, the US uses Mk-77 incendiary bombs. These contain a mixture with kerosene instead of gasoline. Works as well though.
To my knowlege, the Mk-77 has not been used inside the US. But apparently 500 of them were used by the marines in the last gulf war.
Please get your facts straight.
Cause right now there isnt any non lethal alternatives.
Except for all the other non lethal aternative crowd dispersing solutions.
It will goto iraq cause the test subjects at kirtland air force base where to apprehensive to try it on full power(kill mode).
Here in the usa we tend to get a bit sue happy when the goverment kills dozens of test subjects.
But in iraq we can try anything we want to, Whos gonna complain.
We have given up on winning their hearts and minds, instead we will cook their hearts and minds with experimental ray-guns. God Bless America!
They'll hate the US, anyway.
Historically invasion meant the invading power had complete control. You do what you're told or you're killed. The US invaded Iraq, yet went out of their way to spend $1,000,000 per laser guided bomb so they could be "nice" and avoid killing innocents. They're still hated. Being nice doesn't work. This weapon is another waste of money. It will only make people more angry.
And that is a fact of war. You kill them, or they'll come back and kill you. Anything less is a waste of time.
If you can't stomach that, then don't bother attacking in the first place.
with all our technology, science, power and resources, all we seem to do is come up with more and more fucking evil disgusting ways of hurting people? This is fucking sick.. Does nobody else see this?
More US troops get killed with instantaneous bullets while waiting for a simply microwave to do it's job in under 5 seconds.
Sorry, MASERs are only useful in wide-spread setups, creating an effective "anti-human force field" To wait 5 seconds for somethign to do it's job when a bullet is more likely to take your head off in far less time, is a fucking waste of money and life, IMHO.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
Indeed.
So what sort of sparks could you see between belt buckles, spectacle frames etc? Might make for a good B-grade scifi movie scene.
Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
Yeah! tell me about Quake, and Doom, and Half Life, and Counter Strike, and Halo, and Unreal...
Heroscape, it's like legos combined with anachronistic wargames.
...with carrying a big parabolic mirror with me. I bet the DoD guys never thought of this!
Also now I have even more reasons to wear my tin-foil hat, especially if I go to Iraq.
we are your fiends
Laser beats bullet.
Mirror beats laser.
Bullet beats mirror.
"Nonlethal weaponry is a horseshit myth."
Well let's see. There's the sticky gun. There's the slippery gun. There's the nausea gun. There's the smurf gun. There's the net gun. I'm sure there's something in there that will not hurt you.
This will nicely wrap up our hearts-and-minds campaign.
Looks like Analog Science Fiction and Fact beat New Scientist to publication with Gregory Benford's story "The Pain Gun" in the July/August 2005 issue (page 140 of the dead tree style link).
Coming way late to this topic but what the hell.
Bout two (three?) years ago got an email forwarded to me - job posting of a sorts - some Cultural-type Anthropology is done on contract - there are companies that do Anthro studies for big corps on product development, consumer use of products, etc. (observation is way better than surveys but is more expensive and slower)
Anyhoo - a whopper of a job - the company was looking for a short term hire to do some contracted reseasearch for the US Military - a lot of us at first thought it was a bit of a put on but we eventually sussed that it was for real.
The job description was essentially to write a research report examining how culutres world-wide would perceive, essentially, this thing. They were looking specifically for how religions would perceive the invisible heat/pain thing (gods are angry, army is in league with satan, thier gods are more powerful, etc.)
No clue who ended up doing the report (or if it is publicly available) - still - if you think for some reason this (and other similar tech) is not almost ready for deployment...
I know I'm posting this anon (too lazy to register) - if I can dredge the job post I'll follow up here.
We geeks are also pretty good at distinguishing fantasy from reality.
Besides, Counter Strike is the only game you list that has any basis of fact, all the others are in totally fictional environments.
The whole point of violence in games, particularly with kids, is you don't stop them playing these games because they are just fun pure and simple. It's bad parents that use PS2s and XBoxes as "babysitters", leave their kids on them for hours on end and don't spend time with them balancing out in-game violence with real-life love and attention.
So let's have none of this "game violence" BS...
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
While everyone is talking about how the pain caused will piss Iraqis off, they seem to miss the main point.
Those fighting the US in Iraq aren't stupid. That's why there aren't very many riots in Iraq at all: fighting superior forces head-to-head is moronic. They've already figured out a way around these huge wastes of money. It's a bit hard to make roadside bombs submit from pain.
They will be useful in crowd control at home, though. How handy to have spares from the war.
Just throw in an old RPG and set it for five minutes on high.
Um.. If the government is worried about the masses, they have plenty of big .50 cal machine guns to use.
How is this weapon illegal? Because it hurts (even though it doesnt kill)? Would you rather they spray crowds of unruly with real bullets?
Or isn't it already hot enough in Iraq to cause one severe pain?
Beautiful.
point it at cops. If you get busted, just say your daughter was playing with it...
Time for tin-foil body armor?
...but I thought the president said it would be all ok and fixed up with their new constitution and peaceful democratic regime and all long before then, was he being somewhat over optimistic?
Why are we talking about riot control in Iraq? Since when has popular uprising been an issue?
I thought we were only dealing with an insurgency. (And that implying otherwise was treasonous...)
I have anti-globalization activist friends who were in Miami in 2003 protesting the FTAA meeting going on at the time. They tell me that the cops (other than having their own embedded journalists, getting extremely favorable corporate media coverage, beating people senseless and blinding some people with pepperspray) used some sort of microwave weapon on them and it made them throw up. For more info on that protest, check out a movie called the Miami Model http://www.ftaaimc.org/miamimodel.
Why don't they invent Riot Foam that they used in the comic 2000AD ? just quick setting hard foam that's breathable. Drop it on them and then cut them out 1 by 1 .
I say we take off and Nuke the site from Orbit, It's the only way to be sure.
Seems like they wont leave any external marks. How long before the portable ones are being used in interrogations by Iraqi police?
"Microwaves as weapon against people? What's wrong with those people who are involved in the development? Never heard of cancer?"
As opposed to what? Snapping wet towels at their buttocks?
..when fat ass CNET loving, FOX guzzling, dough nut eating, stupid ignorant AMERICANS blindly vote in Arnold Schwarzenihateniggers in 2008 as your President because it's like 'cool dude..hes been in like movies doooode", President SCHWARZENIHATENIGGERS will build you a giant death ray to cook the entire Middle East apart from Israel of course so you Americans can be safe in your bubble and feel secure and fly the flag for wholesome American values like DRM and the Wolfowitz DOCTRINE and cluster bombs.
From the article: DoD-sponsored millimeter-wave human effectiveness testing, initiated in 2001, has demonstrated ADT as both effective and safe without any long-term effects.
... I guess beta testers ... health for less than 5 years? Phenomenal. They can see into the future now, too!
So they determined that there were no long term effects by studying the
My web domain.
... are some fricking sharks!
that is "Not in My Country", this will CERTAINLY be put to use here in the US. I was in NYC for the RNC '04 - while the local police were mostly sympathetic, the Government At Large is becoming increasingly concerned with controlling an increasingly concerned populace, and it showed.
To those who say that "rioters" deserve to be "put down", I thought we chased your type out back in 1776. I see you've crept back in.
There are 11 types of people in the world: those who understand unary, and those who don't.
I'm surprised they haven't deployed water cannons over there - those would seem to be infinitely less lethal than machine-guns or even this microwave laser they're proposing. However, given the heatwaves and lack of electricity for cooling, there's a danger people would riot just to cool down.
Of course, a lot of the dissaffection is as a result of a lack of amenities in an extremely unforgiving climate. On that basis, it would probably be much more cost-effective simply to give every household their own generator and supply them with fuel until the power situation has been stabilized. Probably kill a whole lot fewer people, too. Might even win a few friends.
For the safer parts of the country, they could even run a water delivery service. Drop off a 20 or 50 gallon tank in the morning at the front door, picking up the empties in the process. No different than what a million milkmen do every day in England - except the getting shot at part, and the size of the bottles.
That wouldn't eliminate problems, but it would reduce a LOT of the tension. And if you reduce the tension, you reduce the risk of riots and other violent protest. Containment is better done by meeting legitimate complaints, rather than suppressing them. Suppressing them only risks building the tension up more, which increases the risk of massive confrontation.
Things are bad enough, over there, why go out of our way to make things worse, when it is cheaper, easier and quicker (not to mention more ethical) NOT to?
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Why stop gunning down rowdy iraqi crowds now? It's worked often enough in the past. Of course, now they don't get together in crowds, they just plant a bunch of roadside bombs...
I'm thinking that it's cuz uWave guns won't demonstrate the chronic undersupply of ammunition that has, for example, plagued this particular conquest.
I'd much rather know about the US government microwaving people than the latest on Grand Theft Auto, myself. It seems...more important.
I'm not sure I like the idea of public tax money being spent on research into 'how can we fry rioters brians / eye-balls / internal organs in such a way as to leave them crippled for life but basically not dead'.
So-called 'non-leathal' weapons are often nastier than just being shot dead. I meen, if I poke out both your eyes, that's a non-leathal act but would you seriously want to live like that afterwards? I sure as hell wouldn't.
This is another weapon in the 'don't f*** with us' pile the government is accumulating to use on its own citizens to keep them in check when it introduces yet more draconian laws robbing people of their personal freedoms.
And before you say to me 'oh but rioting is wrong and they're only going to use it on rioter - so that's ok'.... just take a look at the history books and remind yourself how the USA came to be free from the English Empire. Yep... that's right... rioting, revolt, rebelion.
Good job the British didn't invent the microwave back in 1776 - maybe we'd have used it on you 'rioting colonials'?
Coding Monkey.org - Spanging the heavy spade of truth into t
Couldn't they just use a microwave oven with a screw driver jammed in the door lock?
Yeshu777
"Grape in a microwave"
Eventually we could use this technology to test for humans - until we get direct nerve stimulators, ala Dune. I say bring it on.
Wow, I can't wait until the world sees some dumb American "Lyndie Englund style" grunt torturing people with this device!
What a fucking retarded piece of shit, you can of course tell that the 'most expensive bid' contractor screwed up this project and now it has so many gotchas (please remove contact lenses, don't use near pace makers etc etc) that its in fact utterly useless in a real situation. Oh well what's a few million down the drain?
Assuming it will work properly eventually it really seems like a sick piece of technology, something you would see in a futuristic totalitarian sci-fi film, but ignoring the obvious ethical aspects, how can you expect a crowed to disperse in under 5 seconds for fucks sake? It would have to be a very small crowed and everyone on the edge would have to be in scope of the beam so that they were running too. If you simply pointed this at a big crowed, people around the edge of the beam would be crushed to death by people running away trying to push the people surrounding them. This is a fucking sick idea I know for sure its going to be abused, i really hope some victims get together and sue the absolute crap out of whoever is responsible.
Why do I get the feeling that the new Iraqi government will be using this to deal with innocent protesters within about 10 years?
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
This is how they make 'em: The Freedom Fryer.
Visual IRC: Fast. Powerful. Free.
Scientists were foiled, however, in their attempts to set the microwave weapon's clock.
There is truth in humor.
Actually I was just thinking about the explosives thing:
I don't really know how terrorists detonate the explosives that they make their suicide bombs out of, but if they're just regular blasting caps set off electrically, I wonder whether the microwaves would create sparks or charges in the wires sufficient to detonate the caps and thus the explosives.
Maybe there could be a use for this at border crossing points: if someone suspect (wearing unseasonably bulky clothing, etc.) is walking towards you, light them up with some sort of ray that will cause any explosives they're wearing to detonate. Do it from far enough away, and there's no risk to friendly personnel. And you don't necessarily have to use enough power to cause pain/burning, since that's not the point.
"Ladies and gentlemen, my killbot features Lotus Notes and a machine gun. It is the finest available."
....until the microwave radiation realigning the moleules of water makes the water come to boiling point and evaporate, at which time your shirt becomes totally useless, and you fry just the same.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
because then the people will revolt.
the only real answer is genocide, like we did to the indians. that way nobody is left to ask questions.
excecpt for the screaming banshees that haunt your every pathetic attempt to sleep.
and this was a "victory" riot http://www.cnn.com/2004/US/10/22/fan.death/index.h tml
stop needlessly invading countries so that there is no need for such a ray gun? Or change our foreign policies to stop pissing off so many people (and stop killing so many innocent people)? Doesn't this sound like treating the symptom instead of the real problem?
Tinfoil. Tinfoil hat, dungarees, under your normal clothes. And you can carry tinfoil placards that reflect microwaves back to police.
Dyslexics have more fnu.
First thought it might be used in Israel. There has been, after all, a lot more terrorism there than in Iraq and for quite a bit longer. But I don't think so. This requires a full weapon loadout. A soldier needs to be able to have their rifles ready at a seconds notice. The IDF wouldn't use this aside from specialist forces because their troops need to be able to swap a magazine and have rubber bullets. It is far harder to swap weapons in a moments notice.
I wonder what peoples reaction would be if it had been an Iraqi company/university that had developed this and was thinking about using it on rioters? What if a Palestinian terrorist group decided to stop blowing themselves up and instead use this to try and clear Israelis off their land? Im sure people would have a different gut reaction than if it was the US military.
This comment does not represent the views or opinions of the user.
The good news is that the US is (to believe the article) giving this to Iraqi police, who are reliably not going to use it responsibly. In nods to our fellow Iraqi Police Slashdotters, here's a little map comparing the new federated EU state of Finland-Alabama to the size of Iraq (after baking;) and a comparison of demographic isolation of farther-flung yet likely policing subjects. "# "# The bad news of course, is either that your eyelids aren't inches thick (before cooking) and really tired people won't respond so quick, that the National^W Imperial Guard are really being issued freeze rays instead (Cherry....Garcia....Must...Resist), or that the $1.10 Hibachi-Samizdat special chirping reflective upconverter to 22GHz is crazy efficient. More heat weapons in the tropics, please! Also more sun weapons, coconut weapons, palm tree weapons.... No comments from the volunteers to experience weaponized C4, please.
we geeks are pretty much pacifists and don't care about this stuff.
You misspelled apathetic.
Seriously, this attitude is why crappy patents and laws like the DMCA are passed uncontested. It's all very nice living with blinkers on your eyes, ignoring the real world, but don't go crying when that world rudely intrudes on your own life.
If you really were a pacifist, then you should be extremely interested in the ways states have of hurting dissenters, since this thing could be used against you or your fellow humans (but not while you're locked in your bedroom playing Everquest)
Not to mention that inhumane weaponry like this is the best propaganda tool for those opposing war.
Discovered by the Frence, it is a low frequency noise that when played lound enough causes lose of bowl control. It's hard to right whenall you want is to get some clean pants.
I also beleave another frequency causes vomiting, angain hard to lob a brick when you are reciting welsh towns (Clanwjehrjbfbd_go_go_go_urg)
In the not too distant future, next Sunday A.D.
Perhaps I'm missing the point but I come here for news and chat about technology, hardware, software & geeky or nerdy stuff.
The majority of geeks or nerds wouldn't be interested in violence - so why do we need to hear about disgusting weaponry here?
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
Now, this is some SERE-EE-YOUS SHIT! Talk about literally "thinkin' outside the box", crispy critters microwaved on the sidewalk. At least if they contained them to a box, the muni street cleaners will use less water washing away guts and eyeballs.
Maybe THIS is the RETIN-AXE Kirk was allergic to. Riot Control Phasic-Lasic. The benefit the government gets is that if your EYE fails in some Eye-Denti-Fier, it could mean you escaped an unlawful assembly...
As for "Ashes to Ashes, Dust to Dust", a little tale...
Sort of borrowing from "Return of the Living Dead", modified for the National Guard on Anti-Riot Duty...
Senator: We can't have any witnesses...
Colonel: Don't worry, Senator. Mah boys adjusted the ryostat on the gizmat. All those bleedin' hear liberals will be toast! All that will be left is a pile of bleeding, smoking hearts.
Senator: Well, why is THAT?
Colonel: 'Cuz the heart is just one big TOUGH MUSCLE.
Senator: No, Colonel, we can't have the hearts laying around...
Colonel: Well, we'll TURN UP the rhee-oh-stat s'more and all there'll be is a wafting pile of ashes.
Senator: Colonel, you don't understand the gravity of the situation... We can't even have the ASHES lying around...
Colonel: No worry, Senator. We'll just keep CRANKIN' it up higher an BURN up the ASHES, too.
Really, now, the right to assemble FREELY is yielding to the possibility of DIS-assembling FREELY, if some "what does this dial do?" troopers make some hasty field adjustment to their new star-sap-angled microwave muskets. Eradicating homegrown ingrates from Musket to Busket, one at a time..." (Borrowed "busket" from "Suicide Kings")
I can just hear some new Marine jokes:
General: Now, Capn', without your usual flare and florid wisecracks, how'd you disperse that crowd so effectively?
Captain: Well, sir, we Pursed 'em then we burst them. We cooked their asses to Kingdom Come, but when Gawd comes to sort 'em out... Well sir, that's Judgement for another day, SIR!
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
They better quickly get UNtrapped... cuz this aint the rapture they had in mind...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Also, I am very much in favor of considering the use of nonlethal weaponry for regular forces. Every war we fight is tragic and horrible, but every war we fight is more humane than the previous. I consider myself a pacifist, and until we have evolved to rid ourselves of violent ideologies, the development of nonlethal weaponry is worthy and admirable. If we can corral our opponents without maiming and shredding their bodies to pieces, I think we're improving the human condition.
The government that controls the weapons may be democratic or totalitarian, but I argue that the weapon ownership is a different discussion since most governments have automatic weapons, rockets, and bombs and can currently opress their citizens using equal methods.
Sorry, couldn't resist. =D
"You know why you do not see me styling wit my homies? Because I have no homies!!" -Mojo Jojo
As far as news go, riots are not problem in Iraq, suicide bomber attacks are. Mentioning Iraq is there just to assure unconditional approval (our boys in Iraq/Afganistan/wherever are being killed, because they don't have this or that new toy).
OTOH we all know when and where are riots: whenever wherever "The Rich" forum assembles. "Technological advances" like this one are more likely to assure "decisionmakers" (runaway, unelected by people, uncontrolled by people, power) that they need not worry about interest of "commons", because they can't do a thing, nyah.
A bit further down the road, this is not a means for crowd dispersion, but for people (down to crowd of 1) movement control. You can make invisible "electric fences" or even isolate a person in a "box" using four narrow beams from at least two points set apart. This possibility of singling out anyone in a crowd inflicts more fear into hearts of not-so-in-it protesters. No longer large number of "us" means nothing harsh is probable of happening to any single one of us.
It all boils down to "few spartans controling many helots". Of course, rioting is not the last resort in defending freedom (but marks an important step). This "neurowhip" can crush even Ghandi's nonviolent breaking of bans and peaceful demonstrations - aparently turning them into violent ones (by driving protesters crazy with inflicted pain, reason completely unvisible to bystander/TV news watcher). But we will still have the way to (un)confront the prevailing power - the way of Taoists, Bhudists, Jesus, Stoics and Anarchists - boycot, unobedience, ignorance for threats, sort of anti-parasite diet (not doing ANYTHING even for ourselves if it helps THEM stay in power) - at least until they find a way to exploit us even when we are totaly inactive, like in "Matrix", or until we are totaly obsoleted by robots (again, "Matrix") and expendable (or worse, outright loss).
Jeez, talk about 2+2=45.9 - where did you get that leap of logic from???
So you mean to tell me that if you were in the cinema watching a movie, it would be okay for the cinema owners to interrupt that movie halfway through to tell you that somebody's backed into someone else's car in the car park?
It's the same kind of logic if I come to Slashdot expecting to read and discuss geek news & see this type of article instead. Slashdot is about discussing computers and Star Trek - it's escapism from the humdrum of modern-day life.
Please do NOT mistake pacifism for apathy - I CARE about peoples' rights - whether that's the right to live in a peaceful world or not to have their rights stripped away from them by corporate profiteering (= DMCA).
If you really were a pacifist, then you should be extremely interested in the ways states have of hurting dissenters,
Ah, right. So in your world, its not good enough for me to a law abiding citizen trying to be nice to those around me and being opposed to war and violence - I have to be an activist also, do I? Well, if you'd like to give me some suggestions as to how I can take an active part in the global Human Rights issue, then I'm all ears...
but not while you're locked in your bedroom playing Everquest
I'm 43 years of age, married with a mortgage & a job in technical support - never played Everquest in my life, I prefer Heroes of Might & Magic and Civilization. Don't patronize or generalize, it lessens your argument. And presumably you have given up all of your entertainment time to Human Rights activism, have you? Well, let's hear what you do then?
Not to mention that inhumane weaponry like this is the best propaganda tool for those opposing war.
Ah, I see. So this isn't a real weapon, it's a piece of propaganda then, is it? All the more reason to not want to read about it then...
Gentoo Linux - another day, another USE flag.
there have been over 100 "accidental" deaths due to police using "less than lethal" tasers in the U.S. yes i know the taser is different from this deathray bullshit but it adds some perspective on the issue of "non-lethal" and "less than lethal" WEAPONS
Okay, so this crowd control of the lower classes is one thing.
But where are the tech research projects to defeat the techno-millitant industrial corporate police? Do you really think the world is safe breeding such corporations, capable of producing devices like this for the purpose of MASS CONTROL?
Weapons-manufacturers are the ones who create wars to sell their products. The U.S. Gov't has proven time and again that it cannot be trusted to keep its despotic fingers out of the mass-control pie. Why should we be 'grateful' that 'non-lethal weapons' are now being created out of electronics, when electronics have been governing the masses for decades now?
Show me a hand-held device that defeats television. Show me a device which will de-fuse a rabid neo-con. Show me a tool that can be used to bring religions together in peace.
Too many times I've seen Defense-industry nazi's get their rocks off on their latest weapons designs. I think its about time the people of the world revolted against the weapon makers
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Check my sig BS.
Heroscape, it's like legos combined with anachronistic wargames.
Dih-mocker-assy is hard at werk...
Don't let this shit get aloose. He's probably been ITCHIN for decades to have a full-fledged jamboree (or, jam-puree) with the Blue Star Ointment gun a la Halo/Unreal Tournament. I wonder if that thing shoots red, white and blue, or just RoyGBiv...
Anyone remember the Blue Star Ointment commercial that aired (or still airs) in Tejas? I recall it as the fastest commercials I've ever seen on TV. It goes like this, at 1960's product pitch:
"Blue Start Ointment. Stops Ringworm. Tether. Psoriasis. Stops Itching FAST! Blue Star Ointment."
That damned commercial STILL is stuck in my head, and I only saw it about 10-years while growing up.
"How wide-focus is this?"
Well, let's see... beeug enough for one HAYUHL of a fokus grupe.
"Could some sort of protection be made against this?"
Mirrors? Gladiator Shields? Unfurlable, reflective shields? Quick, hide yours lest the govt arrest your for an unlawful assembly you were ABOUT to commit...
"So Iraq has become the population-control guinea pig."
Well, if the Iraqis and the rest of the world are smart, they better start racking and wracking their brains and globally gang up against mono-nation tyranny... or whatever a good phrase would be...
If we as a nation keep this shit up, we'll be well on our way to be (as my mom used to warn us when we as kids got uppity or cranky) "cruisin' for a bruisin'"...
"Wait, isn't that terrorism? Using this thing could increase terrorism? Fucking wonderful."
Nah... See, when THEY fuck WITH or (fuck BACK with) the US, it's terrorism. When the US FUCKS with people, it's "'perserhvin' arh' hway uv lyfe', to look out for the cheerin', and the sheep, an' an' an' spredin' Dimockeracy to the peepholes of di' werld..."
Fry enough insurrectin' Tex-suns, and they'll
quickly go from being the Lone Star State to the Bone-Tar State
(Oh shit, I'm crusin' for a brusin'...)
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Put an old cd into your microwave for a few seconds...
Now imagine someone has some buried scrapnel, or a plate in their skull. Instant scrambled brains. The same goes for pacemakers, or any other implants, cooked meat.
And a tinfoil hat will offer little protection.
Fortunately, lawyers will, after a certain number of deaths result here on the home front in crowd control usage of this new wonder weapon. Eventually, the lawsuits will stop this one, as the deaths are inevitable.
"Where did this apple come from?"
--Alan Turing
.. don't you understand?
/. crowd there are people who can defeat this horrid technology?
This does matter. Perhaps out there in the
I would hope so.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Lardy, Lardy... Operate tis sucker on da freeway and you'll have "Greezed Lightnin'".
But, your's better be omni-directional or at least face aft so you can eliminate witnesses. You don't have to worry 'bout "tyin' up loose eeyuns", because you'll sear those ends together.
With all the oozing on the road, you'll have a lot of SEERIOUS, SEROUS (and if the radio is on) SIRIUS micro-wave action going on...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
Guess it's a good idea to buy some more shares in the tin foil hat industry.
No more hot irons & braziers....progress is a wonderfull thing.
A man in a cell will have no way to get away from the waves.
No need to even chain him to a wall or from the ceiling any more.
I wonder if the Uzbeks have placed any orders yet as it sounds much less effort than their present boiling water technique.
Anon.
Electromagnetic impulsions can indeed be stopped with a portable faraday cage.For instance, a thin metal veil inserted in your clothes.It all depends on the frequency of the microwave. The fact is that this weapon isn't aimed toward terrorists, but civilians.People like... hum... us ?
I'm jack's useless sig
Well, that was a somewhat-insightful post, at least...
Although I do wonder exactly how much alcohol was consumed before making it.
"Your effort to remain what you are is what limits you."
whilst on the subject, I doubt this would get very far if:
- it were a question of field testing this on congress/senate people
- it it were some important constituents that were fieldtested upon.
testing it in a country on the other side of the globe - where the military doesn't do civilian death tools - is all too convenient.
cowardly by any other name
-
Hearts and Minds, my bitches!
which would help them to withstand natural heat too, what's the point?
not sure what would work best against this particular frequency, but those hooded palestinian warrior suits might work nicely, especialy if wet.
curtesy.
Something you do in front of a Royal Family member if you are female.
Courtesy.
The word intended.
You would rather we just shot them to death? Just a thought...
Creative Demolition
The answer: Anyone cought in that beam.
Remember when the first microwave ovens came out? I recall stories about how some people got their internals cooked by leaving the oven door open for too long while it was on; that was before they had a switch to turn it off in the door.
There is no such thing as a 'safe' or 'non-lethal' weapon. This is yet another product of the mindset that created the neutron bomb and the bunker buster: people like us don't matter, we are just some sort of cattle.
Well, Timmy. It started way back in '05 when we invaded a third world country and then microwaved all the people who complained about it.
I wonder, would it be possible to build some kind of reflector to return the microwave beam to its originator? Would be cool!
This shouldn't surprise anyone, really - the whole culture of western government (the US and UK, certainly) is moving away from solving the problems they face, and toward minimising the bother they cause the government.
Too many people protesting outside parliament? Don't find out why they're so angry, just make it illegal for anyone to protest, peacefully or otherwise, within 1km of parliament.
Too many corrupt middle-eastern regimes? Don't try to help get rid of the corruption, just invade one and hope for the best!
Too many terrorist attacks? Don't try to figure out why so many people are willing to die to hurt you, just find a convenient country to blame and invade it!
Too many underage criminals active at night? Make it illegal for *any* children to be on the streets at night, whether they're doing anything wrong or not.
Too many riots and violent protests? Don't worry about it, just develop new and ever more sophisticated ways of punishing those who take part, or even those who are in the same place at the same time.
What's next? Too many people thinking Bad Things? Don't worry...
The whole mindset of the people in control at the moment is skewed - they're not solving problems, they're just hiding symptoms (or, increasingly, brutally suppressing them).
What does this do to individuals who have had their cataracts replaced by inter-ocular lenses (plastic, possibly with metal fastening wires)? Come to think of it, can the weapon cause cataracts? What does the weapon do to dental fillings?
In In Saddam's Iraq you where roasted on the ouside. In Rumsfeld's Iraq you are roasted on the inside. Can you see the use of a hand held unit? Opps I cooked another one......
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
America - land of the fry.
AT&ROFLMAO
Let's ban everything that could possibly be used for evil. Let's start with rayguns, thermonuclear weapons and finish with the internet, caffeine, open source, and anything else that can be abused for that matter. Let me ask you a question: What would you prefer if you were in a crowd regardless of the circumstances: 1. Be shot at with real bullets. 2. Be shot at with rubber bullets. 3. Be shot at with teargas or flashbangs or 4. Be shot at with a raygun?
Moral of this story?
Don't riot while erect: the pooled blood will increase males' risk of receiving split-penis soup.
Seriously, I think all this weaponry R&D, burning up cash that could feed hungry and shelter homeless the world over, is a bunch of bad karma waiting to roost. And that rooster will be cock'n-our-doodlin-due.
Just because we can MAKE the shit doesn't mean we should test, deploy and sell the shit.
Amazing, a so-called enlightened planet, full of murderous, maniacal marauders who enhance lethality rather than remove the fundamental root causes:
-- mass, organized religion,
-- abuse of the name of God (the absentee landlord he/she/it is)
-- greed,
-- politics,
-- ambivalence,
-- wealthy-vs-no-wealthy
-- territorialism
-- manifest destiny
and on and on and on
It's like a song I heard almost 20 years ago:
"I don't want to start any blasphemous rumours, but I think that God's got a sick sense of humor, and when I die, I expect to find him laughing..."
How many thousands of years does "God' need to watch this shit go on? We're acting like a bunch of defects, so why not just come on down/up/over here and "get it over with"? Hit the recycle button on our asses. No, wait, recycle the assholes on several/most continents, across all of time, directly responsible for the past thousands of years of abuse of humanity....
Nah, I guess that would not be so much fun as compared to watching this bucket careen around perilous cliffs but somehow not skidding over the edge... Amazing!
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
This will be perfect for the police for those sit-in (non-violent) demonstrations. A problem there is to apply force to remove the demonstartors: that puts the police action in pretty bad light.
With this weapon the police seemingly will not touch the demonstrators, no physical force will be used, but the dissenters will clear away regardless.
And no, not just in Iraq... It is a perfect tool for ANY government that wants to look like humane and democratic while needs to silence political dissent. It is time to pass a law about what type of weapons could be used for crowd control, especially in case of nonviolent protesters. (What is wrong with water cannons anyway?)
NO alcohol. I haven't touched a drop in maybe two weeks.
Could be that Ampex Stereo Head Cleaner I swallowed around the age of 3 or so:
Xylene
Aerosol Detergent
Carbon Tetrachloride.
about 4 ounces worth, I think...
And lived...
Now THAT is cellular manipulation at work. That combined with falling on my head while having my diaper changed. And, probably having ADD, ATD, and a whole soup of other acronyms caused by chemicalized, industrialized, and rampantly ass-kicker of a nation...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
as it often does in Iraq, the local people will all be able to take their evening meals out into the street, get zapped by riot control police, and get a cooked dinner into the bargain.
They tested a system to find out whether people were experiencing intolerable heat in New Mexico?
Surely in New Mexico, all you have to do is just stand in the sun?
Andrew Oakley - www.aoakley.com
You really could use your Tax money in a better way...
People in the front holding up a huge plate glass mirror. Or.. Glue a bunch of cockroaches to yourself. They never seem to be bothered by microwaves.
You might be interested to note that riots happen in other locations around the world other than the US. And it might also interest you to note that it doesn't take a major US sporting event to bring one about.
He's right! Sometimes all it takes is a few already rich beurocrats selling some of their nation's own natural resources, like, say, water, to overseas interests, whereby said overseas interests proceed to hike the rates so high that the poor can no longer afford it.
Hey, your population (from whom you derive your governing authority in a democracy) is rioting! Let's ignore the reason and shoot them.
Finally, I can start practicing for the Bene Gesserit test.
Hopefully they don't leave any permanent marks when used sparingly:
ADT emits a 95 GHz non-ionizing electromagnetic beam of energy that penetrates approximately 1/64 of an inch into human skin tissue, where nerve receptors are concentrated. Within seconds, the beam will heat the exposed skin tissue to a level where intolerable pain is experienced and natural defense mechanisms take over.
This intense heating sensation stops only if the individual moves out of the beams path or the beam is turned off. The sensation caused by the system has been described by test subjects as feeling like touching a hot frying pan or the intense radiant heat from a fire. Burn injury is prevented by limiting the beams intensity and duration.
DoD-sponsored millimeter-wave human effectiveness testing, initiated in 2001, has demonstrated ADT as both effective and safe without any long-term effects.
This once again looks like the US is doing weapon-experiments on humans they'd shoot otherwise. As they did in the Gulf and any other 'war'.
It's disturbing really. I imagine this might be used domesticly as well when they see most Iraquee civilians don't end up dead or heavily mutilated and the ray proves 'humaine enough'.
More of these internet vids from kids being overrun by the riot-police and beaten up for voicing their discontentment using peacefull protest to come. nNow with added rays!
I think we can keep recursing like this until someone returns 1
Well, if it's intolerable for them, I guess it's definitely intolerable for everyone else. Imagine doing it the other way round: testing it on Seattle citizens. What value would the test have?
"I think it would be a good idea!"
Gandhi, about Internet Security
But it can help to get a crispy skin
I cannot wait to see it head-mounted on sharks.
What? Oh, those were lasers. Nevermind.
My other post is a First.
Yeah! tell me about Quake, and Doom, and Half Life, and Counter Strike, and Halo, and Unreal...
Yeah, because those are all based in reality right? And if we go kill someone in Grand Theft Auto, that must mean we're murderers right? Right?
And all our yesterdays have lighted fools The way to dusty death. --Will
I don't want one until they can make 'em a bit smaller. This unit hardly looks portable... come on, what kind of friggin' shark is able to swim around with that thing strapped to its head?!
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Something a friend of mine said some four years back (when everybody shouted "tinfoil hat" at the idea): if a few seconds can do this, imagine doing it for a few minutes.
Isn't it nice we have all these backward countries to test our toys with and send our kids to to teach them some geography?
I think, therefore I am...I think.
Iraq is already one of the most brutally hot places on earth. Apparently it's like blowing a hair dryer full-blast at one's face while simultaneously being pummeled with sand.
These heat-toughened rioters are going to laugh in the face of a little extra microwave radiation.
Gotta say, as I am serving in Iraq right now, that in general all of the comments have been pretty disgusting. First of all ask any Soldier, Sailor, Marine or Airman and find out which one of them targets civilians, or doesn't care when an Iraqi dies. I'm thinking that most of you won't for two reasons. 1) You know the answer you'll get, we don't kill innocents, bystanders, civilians intentionally, nor do we ever intentionally target them. 2) You won't because you lack the courage or personal fortitude to look someone who volunteers to serve something larger then themselves in the eye. As for the Active denial system, are there risks, is it a new technology? Yes. The sole intent of it is to disperse mobs when they move past the assembled protestors into the violent mob phaze. Helping to protect individuals in the Mob and those tasked to control it from injury. Yes that sounds cruel, but as I've been in and seen riots and the damge they cause to people in and around them, this is a far better choice. Also lets get one thing straight, the US military is not a police force, we have a completely different mission and rules. The active denail system is coming on-line because we are not allowed to use tear gas as it is considered a chemical weapon. Meaning the US military has no current non-leathal way of dispersing a violent mob. In fact our nature is not non-lethal, we are trained and equipped to kill and destroy. So if you consider the use of an M-4 or M-16 rifle as a more humane approach the the microwave or sound amplification system that are going to be fielded, well you've got some problems. Iraqi's are moving towards the first democratic government in the arab world. They have met every milestone all while being attacked by an ever more desperate and loathesome terrorist force bent on returning them to the stone age. What other nation has sacrificed the blood of hundreds of its own, spent its own treasure for the purpose of helping others. Most other nations are content to placate and live in denial, all so that they may finally have peace in their time. And considering we work day in and day out besides the "hajji", that they are friends and comrades, again yes we do care. I've been amazed at the inspiring courage displayed every day by Iraqi's who have to take multiple busses, cabs, to come to work to help re-create thier country. These men and women are determined to make sure that their new opportunity for everything we take for granted isn't taken from them by another thugh or dictator. Look one of them in the face and tell them they'd be better of under Saddam or Uday or Qusay, you won't because you don't have the spine too. Every moment of the war and occupation have been covered by media. Find any reporter who has been embedded with a military unit who says that we don't do everything in our power to prevent civilian casualties. Again you won't be because you already know the answer. Some of you people make me sick, do something worth a damn, serve something besides yourself before you have the unmitgated gall to criticize those who do.
18 kids in a free fire zone
18th kid goes home alone.
No, it is not. If you want something to control riots you need something that:
- stops people from running towards you, throwing stones, Molotov's coctails and what else
- has to be able to stop young healthy testosterone- and adrenaline- filled thugs
- has to stop many of them at once.
Remember: even drugs, despite all their testing, have adverse reactions. You will always find a person which has some undiscovered condition which will cause a drug to cause harm. Now remember that drugs are prescribed and administered in an extremely controlled environment compared to a riot.
So if you find something capable of controlling a riot, always in some situations it will be lethal. To stop the aforementioned adrenaline-high thug running at you with a Molotov coctail you need something really shocking.
OK, pepper gas is supposingly harmless, but then it causes people to panic - and stampede kills as surely as any weapon.
Raf
I remember reading a description of this somewhere before; the journalist ended by saying "this is intended for non-lethal crowd dispersion, and as such is likely to be very effective. Personally, if I was on a demo and noticed the faces of people around me starting to bubble like toasted cheese, I think I'd disperse pretty damn quick, too."
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
Yes, these are the thoughts I have late at night, when I'm by myself and the power goes out.
StupidChildren...the reason jesus is crying
I assume that the microwave can be reflect with metal sheets, so won't this be ineffective pretty soon after the first deployment?
What about zippers? And the little metal whatchamacallems that apparently hold jeans togethers?
And as people have rightly pointed out ; yeah, like people are gonna be walking around without change in their pockets...
This shit scares the hell out of me ; and if it can be used against rioters then its obviously not going to be considered a torture weapon.. Think about that for a moment. Not a torture weapon. So its fine to use in an interogation, because its not torture right? 'We know you work for osama, now tell us where he is *zap* *screams*'
Whatever happened to the line of thinking that got congress or whoever it was to try and stop the production/research of plasma weapons (I vaugly remember this) as they could be used as torture devices. Unless this thing comes with huge restrictions on its use, and ofc it won't - then it will be overused. Just like tasers.
Protesters really need a rich benificator; somone who can rent rooms in buildings with windows facing protest areas at pre-organised protests, and can setup massive arrays of video monitoring to watch for police abuse. The last election proved that the police have no problem in employing excessive force - give them a toy that can take down whole crowds on a minor excuse and you better believe they'll use it. With the slanted media coverage on these things, the only way forward for protests now is to have cameras that record the whole thing from vantage points - in other words, something to hold the police accountable.
That I'm even having to make these points is a sad state of affairs. To the people who are complaining that this story hit slashdot - you'd better hope it keeps hitting slashdot, so when they try and deploy it in the US you can write to your representative and make your feelings known. The potential implications of this thing are horrific.
Dakisha
I wish just once all the major networks would break a story like this, except about China. After about two weeks of popular outrage and senate condemnation, they'd run a correction that it's actually the United States semantically dodging the Geneva prohibition of blinding laser weapons, much less for crowd control. A personal FUCK YOU! from me to everybody at Sandia for their flagrant lie of a press release outlining the weapon's purpose as the defense of nuclear assets.
you can have my violent video games when you pry them from my cold, dead hands.
Prime UID Club
...without addressing the actual cause or reason for the protest.
which is, of course, the fundamental flaw to this sort of "solution". It only goes skin deep in more sense than one.
I was at the Force Protection Equipment Demonstation this year where I talked to some of the Marines at the Joint Non-Lethal Warfighting Lab about this exact product. We as Marines are looking at this tool as a lifesaver (literally). If we can roll through a place like Fallujah and use this tool to incapacitate the bad guys in front of us, then that saves their lives and puts less risk on our Marines. We want to and are doing everything we can to improve our non-lethal and less-than-lethal capabilities so that we have more options when we're faced with an enemy.
More importantly, the general vibe that I got from these responses is that you all think that we're a bunch of indiscriminent killers! Guess what...we're not! We don't want to kill if we don't have to. However, when someone is pointing a gun at us, we're not going to sit there and wait them out. For example, we have Marines coming back from Iraq and Afghanistan who are messed up psychologically because they had to shoot a kid who was shooting at them. They had no choice. They did the right thing, but now they're fucked up in the head. The only reason they're fucked up though is because they believe that it's morally wrong to shoot a child. But when that child puts themselves into a situation where they become a combatant, the only response we have right now is to shoot them.
Back to this less-than-lethal ray gun, if that Marine could've incapacitated that child instead of killing him, then the Marine can go home knowing that he completed his mission and didn't have to shoot a child, and that child can go home alive.
I'm really dissapointed in this crowd. I've been a slashdot reader for the last 8 years and I've been pretty impressed with most of the comments up until now. Have a little faith in the people serving on the front lines. We're professionals, just like you try to be at work. We care about honor, courage, commitment, etc. Frankly, if I can use this ray gun to help make my Marines safer and bring them home to my families, then as a commander, I'm all for it.
-- Get your free Mini Mac http://www.FreeMiniMacs.com/?r=14209873
Spreading civilwar should be punished with some serious jail time.....Bush belongs in jail!!!
Maybe there should be a constitutional law that any politician/leader proposing a war risks being _executed_ if he/she does not get enough referendum votes for the war proposal. e.g. 66% of the population must want war.
And another law so the said leaders could be redeemed if they get enough votes in a "Save me" referendum. e.g. 66% of the population must want a leader to be alive even though he/she proposed war and failed.
To me it's fair that you should risk your life as well if you are about to ask thousands or millions of your fellow citizens to risk theirs.
This way, there are far fewer ethical issues in citizens being targets for the war - since a significant majority wanted the war - they themselves feel that it is necessary to kill lots of people, put their own lives at risk etc etc.
As it is, leaders start wars without even majority support from the citizens.
Not talking about active voters, talking about total _citizens_.
So, the Iraqis are the guinea pigs.
Does 4 years qualify as long-term?
And I sincerely hope I am mistaking when I assume that someone was exposed several times to the beam over a "long-term-period" of 4 years to do some proper testing of the exposure effects. How else could they argue that there are no long-term effects? I guess it's the same way that Mcdonalds argue that they use fresh vegetables (thus implieing that it's healthy)
[offtopic]
I always choose McFeast (which might not be a known menu in all countries) since it's the most healthy cuz' then I get to eat more
[/offtopic]
Isaac Asimov was right again.
. html
"The neuronic whip works by causing extreme pain, somewhat like the "tasers" used by security forces on Earth today, (which discharge 50000 volts through the victim), with the difference that the neuronic whip works at a greater distance and its principle of operation isn't described."
http://geocities.yahoo.com.br/vmhilden/foundation
PS: thanks for serving
Once upon a time /. was about "Stuff that matters". It was about "News for nerds", wasn't it?
If there are two geeks in the world interested in such stuff - one who tells the story and one who answers - it should be sufficient to fulfill the conditions. The number of peoples weighing in without complaining fully legitimizes the decision to post the story.
And since when isn't /. an integral part of "modern-day life"? Tell, you aren't a geek, are you?
to control the zionist crowd (I'm being nice...)
that opposes the withdrawal from the Gaza strip
First off, I salute your courage to serve our insane country. Come back in one piece, okay? Having said that:
The active denail system is coming on-line because we are not allowed to use tear gas as it is considered a chemical weapon.
I am stunned if that statement is true. Because police officers in the US regularly use tear gas against civilian demonstrations (this happened recently to a friend of mine at a peaceful "bring our troops home before more get killed" demonstration that was broken up with gas because the cops didn't feel like putting up with it). Either: (1) there is some really fucked up politics at work and someone decided there was more money selling you a microwave laser than tear gas (in which case there should be outrage), or (2) police brutality is massively widespread in the US because they use tear gas (and there should be outrage if the US Army doesn't think it's humane). I'm guessing it's the former.
Iraqi's are moving towards the first democratic government in the arab world.
Yes, it was also a great boost to Iran, who recently elected a hard-liner who mockingly thanked George W Bush in his acceptance speech for scaring the country into voting for him.
What other nation has sacrificed the blood of hundreds of its own, spent its own treasure for the purpose of helping others.
Except that wasn't what we were told. Us stick-at-home taxpayers who are funding your desert adventures were told that you were going to prevent a madman from destroying the world with his nuclear and chemical weapons. None were found. We were lied to. And now almost 1,800 of you fine Americans have been killed, 18,000 wounded in action. We're not very happy about this, neither are we overjoyed about the 25,000 to 100,000 Iraqis that have been killed and 40,000 wounded (accurate death figures are hard to come by since the allied forces are not publicly tracking civilian deaths, but 25k is the accepted 'best case' minimum estimate, 100k the 'worst case').
You may accept your orders and faithfully carry out whatever mission you're told - even if they appear to contradict - but we don't. The Commander In Chief is employed by us. We elected him, we pay his wage and we're his boss. He lied to us and we're upset about this and about the Iraq war. This is why we're sore about Iraq, we do not forgive and we do not forget. If any of your subordinates lied to you and did not perform their mission, what would your reaction be? A court-martial at best?
Next time get your C in C to read "The Art Of War" first. Besides lying to the peons at home (ie: me), mistake number 1 was dissolving the Iraq army instead of having it work for you. It would have made your work far easier.
Every moment of the war and occupation have been covered by media.
Yes, and right now they're saying that Iraq is at the tipping point of descending into anarchy, that the allied occupational forces (ie: you) are not helping the situation by providing targets and that supposed allies like Syria and Pakistan are allowing suicide bombers free entry into Iraq.
I'm so sorry that you're in the middle of this mess, doubly so that you don't see the forest burning down around you because of all the trees.
does this thing have a "cut-off" mechanism? What prevents the guy with the finger on the trigger to keep his finger there? Anything that boils your skin under 5 seconds does a lot of damage if you keep it going for, say, 45 seconds.
It's better to be the foot on the boot than the face on the pavement. ~~ tkx Kadin2048
The backside with theese kinds of weapons is that they will be used with much less restriction than other weapons. If it doesnt kill its an effective weapon against large groups of people demonstrating. Police will just cite public safety and beam away.
This is an opressors weapon since it targets large groups of ordinary people. Terrorists mostly dont travel in groups of thousands do they?
The irony is that people who demonstrate and is cut off of showing their beliefs will get pretty pissed by something like this. The chance are a new terrorist is created.
Heck, England would never had been bombed if it wasnt for them supporting the US in the illegal invasion of Iraq. Imagine what this weapon can do for making life easier for Al Queda talent scoutes?
XD
HTTP/1.1 400
I know what microwave beams are, and I find the idea of deliberately aiming them at others repulsive to the n^th degree.
The scenario you describe is even worse.
War is *not* a good thing.
"Prove all things; hold fast that which is good." [KJV: I Thessalonians 5:21]
Iraq is a desert .. except for the oases and the irrigated farms which used exist before Bush sr bombed the dams. It is also supposed to be where the Garden of Eden was (Euphrates, Tigris...).
> However, given the heatwaves and lack of electricity for cooling, there's a danger people would riot just to cool down.A cool and comfortable crowd is a lot less likely to be violent. It's the hot and stressed crowds that are rowdy. Have you ever been in a riot ?. I've only been in student protests and a slight rain is more effective than a police force with tear-gas grenades in dispersing it.
All looks way too much like old Soviet Russia testing out their lethal poisons in afghanistan villages.Quidquid latine dictum sit, altum videtur
Sorry, but with a bit of engineering I guess you could build that reflecting parabola that would reflect and focus the beam on the shooter?
:-)
Determine how far away you are from the shooting target and ajust the parabola to have this as focal point.
Ofcourse, the shooters determine how long they want to be fried
it doesn't inflict "intorealbe pain". I know COL's that were hit with it. Its a discomfort like setpping out of 70 degree F air conditioning to 100 degee F heat with 100% humidity.
Fine link chain mail.
All you SCA people get busy.
I'd go on a Vegan diet but the delivery time from Vega is too long. --brownkitty
Why stop at a ray gun? Just nuke the entire Middle East and turn it into a giant fucking parking lot. And for all of you pacifist, liberal pussies out there, there's something in it for you too.... The industrial world will finally have to create better, cleaner alternative fuel devices since our main oil supply would be unobtainable for the near future.
Was "How long until some of our enemies get ahold of one of these things and turn it on either our own troops, or on innocent civilians".
The biggest problem with developing better weapons is that eventually other countries will also have them, either by stealing our plans & building one, or by just stealing one of the weapons & reverse engineering it. History shows that this will eventually happen, it's just a matter of how long till this happens...
Sssshh...
You know... those reflectors made of little uniform cubes on the bias so that one corner is protruding perpindicular to the base? It always reflects right back at the source of the radiation.
--- Nothing clever here: move along now...
It was recently tested on people playing the part of rioters at Kirtland Air Force Base in New Mexico where they asked the subjects to remove glass and and contact lenses to protect their eyes. Hopefully real rioters will get the same curtesy. I don't know about you, but I don't think that a crowd that is rioting is going to stop and listen to any warnings given. I can't entirely imagine they'll suddenly stop rioting to remove glasses and contact lenses...
"Hey ... feels warm ... kinda nice."
- Abe Simpson
Ah yes, the knee-jerk response of multi-culti leftists worldwide. Lenin had an even better nickname for people like you: "useful idiots."
You want irony? The real irony is that Islamofascists hate the mindset of the modern left most of all. Don't for a moment think that you wouldn't be the first up against the wall in the new Caliphate.
iffo.swe bleated:
Heck, England would never had been bombed if it wasnt for them supporting the US in the illegal invasion of Iraq.
[and...]
The irony is that people who demonstrate and is cut off of showing their beliefs will get pretty pissed by something like this. The chance are a new terrorist is created.
Sure, heat protesters and cause them intolerable pain. Why not just get out your rifles and shoot them? Most of those hit will probably just be injured and can recover. Do we know how people will recover from rapid internal heating?
-Rich
Hold on... Why is it our mothers always told us not to stand by the microwave oven while it is running??? Mommy, I'm frightened. :-(
I, for one, welcome our microwave-wielding overlords.
These wouldn't be hard to make.
In fact, you could do it with a few R/C servos, some model rocket engines from your local hobby lobby, a few cheap Radio Shack components, or parts from a few discarded VCRs, and of course, your payload of choice. You could even hide it all in an empty 16 oz. energy drink can, MONSTER comes to mind.
Microwave weapon operator = pwn3d!!!!
Shouldn't this new device be christened the Neuronic Whip out of respect for our most esteemed Science-Fictioniser?
That was classic intercourse!
Iraqui Occupation: The Next Generation
Set your phasers to stun!
You're forgetting one thing: This would never happen in China! The Chinese would likely just shoot the rioters, as in dead, with real bullets, end of story.
Meanwhile, there'd be nary a peep out of the international media because they'd be too busy getting the vapors over some captured terrorist whose dinner (honey-glazed chicken with rice pilaf) wasn't properly halal, or who is being forced to use 1-ply toilet paper instead of 2-ply (the humanity!), or who is being forced to read Slashdot against their will (shoot me, please!)
3000+ comments meta-modded. 0 mod points awarded.
Lesson for other meta-suckers: Don't believe the hype!
Radical Protestors: We want a complete replacement of the current system with something that has been shown to be a failure every other time it's been tried!
WG: Well, there's the other 99.4% of the population that does not want that.
RP: They are stupid, and unworthy of consideration. Give us our fucking free stuff!
WG: Well, we can't do that.
RP: NAZIS!
WG: Look, it's really not so bad as-
RP: FACISTS!
WG: Is there someone else there we can talk to?
RP: NO! We will now riot to prove our point!
WG: What piont is that?
RP: That for the most part we are immature motherfuckers who can't solve our personal problems, and so blame the world for everything.
WG: Ah. Hey, have you seen our new ray gun?
RP: Augh! It burns!
WG: Tee hee!
I'm really worried about the way the USA is taking. Not only over the rest of the world, but even internally, over its own people.
When I see lots of american slashdoters being worried too, makes me have some hope.
I'd really wish you folks could change something. Perhaps next elections...
Thank you.
"I worked hard for it. I deserve it. And I have it," Campbell said. "It's all mine."
While this little microwave ray gun is a neat trick, here's my take on the whole Iraq problem: nuke them. I say we put out an announcement that from here on out, every suicide bomber will result in the complete vaporization of an Iraqi village. Even better if we could determine where the bomber's family lives.
Fucking animals, all they understand is violence. Let's give them a dose of violence they won't believe, instead of constantly worrying about hurting somebody's feelings. All of you whining liberal hippies can suck my balls.
"And now, Frank N. Furter, your time has come. Say 'goodbye' to all of this, and 'hello'... to oblivion!"
Yes they will. They will be asked to leave or disperse quietly. I'm sure that taking off their glasses would be a worthy alternative should they desire a little pain. But I'm guessing most rioted would leave the glasses on and beat it out of there. Hopefully anyways.
-BrentI'm guessing when the Empire got their hands on this thing, they started the public campaign of the "non-lethal" and crowd-control weapon, too
Did anybody of you read Russian Spring? I refer to the picture of the USA in this book. Riot control guns that let people poo all over each other, ass-tight borderlines... I will not count every parallel.
Everytime such an article as this is posted I am thrown right back into this book.
Please respond only if you read this book. Flames will be answerd with a tired ass wrinkling.
Meme of the day: I browse "Disable Sigs: Checked". So should you.
http://www.protest.net/
. . . when all you need is a knife, some C-4, and a cell phone.
"I worked hard for it. I deserve it. And I have it," Campbell said. "It's all mine."
I can't believe how outraged everyone is that the US military is employing this device. It's really only the next logical step in non-lethal weapons research and deployment.
Non-lethal has gone from teargas to beanbag guns to highly directional sound. What is so suprising that heat was used next.
Another thing I noticed is that everyone is so upset that people would be harmed because of glasses or metal on their person. You seriously think that the beam would last in duration long enough for hideous effcts to occur? It's not a GIANT PEOPLE MELTING DEATH RAY! It's a directional energy device. Its main purpose is to break up crowds to make them managable. Not make people stay in their homes in fear. The reason that the test subjects were advised to take off glasses and contacts is because the testers has to cover their own ass. Just because there were preventitive measures taken in a test, it doesn't mean that everyone exposed to this thing wearing glasses is going blind.
This device won't mutate people, or disfugre people, or cause world wide mass histeria and paranoia. It's just another waste of money that's necessary to appease the people that think that war, no matter how justified or unjustified, should be settled using wax bullets and paint filled IED's. Then if you get paint on you, you have to lie down and then after the battle both side will have poptarts and apple juice to unwind.
This will give me a chance to try out my new Gucci-faraday underpants and helmet (gotta protect the important things). The threat of RF can't stop us now people. March onward!
Shame on the parent poster, and shame on the moderators.
The guy believes that Israel was responsible for the 9/11 and 7/7 terrorist attacks.
If that's how you all feel, why doesn't the "LOL Jews did WTC" troll get the same "Insightful" moderation?
Moonbats. Disgusting. Click the link.
Does this ray gun require the Uranium PU-36 Explosive Space Modulator?
Maybe the "active denial" microwave gun will be used on protesters. It's hard to guess because there has been so damn little coverage of protests. So without it's hard to gauge what's going on elsewhere.
Recently, there were major protests at Spanish universities, including faculty, against sw patents. No coverage.
The other year, there were hundreds if not thousands of protests against the war in Iraq going on around Europe. Many had record turnout. Almost no coverage of them in Europe after the first few, no coverage in the US.
Or take the WTO protests in both Europe and the US. Very, very little coverage. In the US, the coverage only extended to the small number of violent protesters, not the topic of the protest nor the days of peaceful manifestation.
Or take coverage of May Day protests. Very little coverage, if any. One BBC report cover it, but used one sentence to say how peaceful they all were and then used the rest of the report to say how hard it was to track down an unruly protest whilst playing the sounds of violence and breaking glass in the background. That's not news anymore that's spin, almost as good as Faux News or CNN.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
...welcome our microwave raygun-wielding overlords.
What other choice will we have?
"Please can we try it??? I'll just set it to 'stun'!"
Linux: Helping nerds look smarter since the late 90s.
A large number of people (around 50% of registered voters) already do not participate in our elections. In fact, I'd argue we might get a better result if there were attacks designed to scare people away from the polls. Then, only people who really cared about the issues of the day would show up.
Forgot to say - it is known that cancer from radiotherapy can be tens of years down the line, with no noticable effects now (even the hair's grown back mostly), so how they can say this is safe now I don't know.
On the other hand - most cancer from radiotherapy is curable, and the people that have had it tend to be better at keeping an eye out for danger signs and diagnosing it early.
Why would they want a device like this?
Are they expecting riots over there?
I thought things were going great in Iraq.
Freedom's on the march and all.
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Ouch!
Achille Talon
Hop!
Browsing at 4: 33 comments, universally bemoaning the near-fascist oppression of the Evil Bush & Co., as well as the obligatory comments about how we shouldn't be in Iraq.
1) Do you people understand what a Riot IS? This is not a bunch of grungy stoners standing around peacably smoking hemp before they are brutalized by the jackbooted police thugs. I've BEEN in a riot, and they are characterized by VIOLENCE. Violence and damage to property, as well as against other people standing around. Many posters have said something about the indiscriminate use of these weapons. Hey dumbass: the point of RIOT CONTROL cops is not to beat your sorry ass down (as much as you may deserve it) it's to DISPERSE the rioters, because people are far less likely to be (rioting) assholes when not protected by the anonymity of the herd around them. If you're a spectator, you're part of the fscking problem. For all the sympathy we're supposed to have for 'innocent bystanders' accidentally caught in this weapon's area of effect, I don't see a SINGLE post suggesting sympathy for the people whose businesses, cars, property, and yes, even LIVES are threatened/damaged/ruined by the rioters.
But then again, why should they get sympathy? They're working a job, running a local business, making a living, supporting a family...you know, all those things that the "anti-globalization protestors" (really fancy way of saying unemployed vandals) are supposedly "protecting"...
2) It's great we're in Iraq, we're accomplishing good things in the majority of the country where the psychotic terrorists aren't an everyday event. And yes, it's JUST as irrelevant for me to make that point as it is to make yours that "we shouldn't be there".
-Styopa
And then, in near future, some yank is going to wonder "Why Iraqi people hate us so much? We are only helping them." Even if it never gets used in Iraq, the sole fact it was INTENDED to be used there is more than enough.
Of course, it won't be used in the US, since someone might sue them for using it.
Iraqi lives, at the end of the day, are much much cheaper...
Iraqi cancer rates expected to triple.
Dying Getting shot with a nonlethal raygun? How is this worse than some innocent getting hit with a stray bullet because they got too close to something they shouldn't have? It doesn't cause any serious problems, and it's sure better than getting a beating. Or, you know, bombed.
anyone who's ever been around army radar (and that's only about 3ghz) knows that ghz kill and cause permanent DNA damage. my dad saw a guy walk infront of a radar and he was killed instantly. wtf are they thinking making this weapon which will cause DNA damage!? i guess it's just for iraq crowd control where we dont care what happens to the people afterwards.
crap. Sorry,that is just pure crap.
Old time peaceful demonstrator here, going back to the civil rights days. I have seen cops just go absolutely batsquat *totally nuts* numerous times. Gas, water cannon, clubs, dogs, etc. You DON'T have to be "rioting" for the cops to use violence against you. That has never been an absolute criteria.
Real world and academic theory, two entirely different things. This is history, data, you need to get you some.
I think its about time the people of the world revolted against the weapon makers ..
I'm not sure what your babbling on about, but in North America, Europe, Eastern Europe and in many parts of Asia the standard of living has never been higher. So I don't exactly see the masses wanting to "rock the boat."
Reminds me of a story about "non-lethal weapons" I saw on tv some time back.
Essentially, they produced a super stink bomb that would cause large crowds to either disperse or be faced with crippling nausea and illness.
So they got a bunch of it, dropped it in caves where people where hiding, and then shot the lot of them when they came out.
Sometimes non-lethal weaponry is just used to make the lethal weapons that much more effective.
I wonder how durable this device is.
"Okay, now watch this million-dollar raygun in action! Oh shit, someone hit it with a 10 cent brick! Break out the teargas, boys."
I would laugh my ass off to see that, then run like hell.
-Eric
SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
I have no problem with the raygun being used as a replacement for rubber bullets. As long as they don't abuse it, I don't see what the problem is.
Oh, who the hell cares? They're RIOTERS!
I can't find the exact quote, but someone once observed that the best way to stop a riot was to start shooting, and keep stacking up the bodies until there is no more riot. In my estimation, anything short of that should be considered as showing admirable restraint.
Riots hurt people. If stopping one means that a few rioters may be hurt, it's more than worth it.
From sandia's description of the thing: "Burn injury is prevented by limiting the beam's intensity and duration."
I'm sure that frightened cops trying to control a rioting crowd, or intel goons questioning terror suspects in military prisons, are going to show a lot of restraint. And coincidentally second and third degree burns will be added to the seemingly endless list of "abuses" which don't qualify as actual torture for some reason.
Now before I get modded down, I be to remind whoever might read this that what I am saying is FACT. - bogaboga
Note that this thing is highly visible and distinctive, dramatically moreso than a soldier with a gas grenade, for example. Thus, once the word gets out about how much fun this thing is to experience, we can expect that people will recognize and avoid it before it's ever turned on. If that's not nonlethal, nothing is. Note also, to the poster who said terrorists don't use large crowds as weapons, two words: suicide bomber. Failure to understand the effect of mass casualties is to fail to understand terrorism. Large crowds = mass casualties = weapon. It can thus be argued that dispersing a crowd could save lives by diluting the victim density. .max
Even the moronic Bush should know better than to escalate the emnity with the middle east in that dreadful way.
I can just see the headlines: "Killing us wasn't enough, now they are boiling the blood of our people."
If there ever was a way to encourage the next 9/11, that was it.
Seriously, the election process in the US no longer fulfills the criteria the UN and the US itself have when they go in to other countries to monitor elections. An audit trail (paper or not) is a necessary prerequisite for free and fair elections. Currently, the US can't meet that basic requirement and neither the authenticity nor origin of large numbers of votes can be established. Further, the UN was actually prevented from monitoring the 2004 election.
However, if enough people speak up, say by writing their congress members and their regional newspapers, then maybe there's a chance to get things straightened out in time for the 2008 election.
Beta is broken and the link to classic doesn't work. Stop wasting our time or there won't be anybody left here.
Non-lethal means of crowd control are great for Iraq, which means they will only inevitably be used on our own people. This is some scary shit.
The geek community has a chance to seize a little turf here; we need a nickname for the microwave zapper. It should be less obvious than: toaster, microwave, [ethnic slur]zapper. Possibly "tanning booth" or coppertoner? Dance track? ?? .max
First post right out the box with this whinging Lefty kant. Good God man, consider the alternative! That would be a .50 cal machine gun.
You've got 1000 pissed off rioters, many of whom are armed with rifles. Water hoses against rifles? Don't think so! Tear gas against rifles? Nuh uh.
So now, finally, the US Army has a (barely) viable alternative to firing on a crowd, and that makes them the bad guys? What's worse, a superficial burn or a bullet to the head? You're an IDIOT.
So did the original poster mean:
curtesy Audio pronunciation of "curtesy" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kûrt-s)
n. pl. curtesies
The life tenure that by common law is held by a man over the property of his deceased wife if children with rights of inheritance were born during the marriage.
Or will the rioters be getting a "curtsey?" Sounds a little effeminate for police. Or do we hope they get "courtesy?" I'm so confused!
Did anyone else read the summary and think, "You know, I wonder how long it is before this gets used as an instrument of torture?". Induces extreme pain, mostly non-lethal, should leave no inconvenient marks...
Which would you rather have? Lethal or non-lethal ways of dispersing drunken, angry mobs?
I've seen first-hand what rioters can do, and if this device saves police from having to kill idiots and keeps our officers out of harm's way, it's a god-send.
This microwave device is going to be used in Iraq. What of all the language barriers between iraqi's and the people using these devices? What if they do not understand or more likely, are not even told to remove glasses, coins etc before being fired with this weapon? More seriously, why is it being tested on them? like they are the lab animals... Think of what that means! Already, DU is causing havoc among them and many independent studies support the link between DU and the birth defects etc. in Iraq. Ofcourse, DoD denies everything when even the veterans believe the link exists. So, what if this microwave damages brains of iraqi's or kills a few? DoD denies it and weapon continuously is used in Iraq. And this on top of the iraqi children being shot up indiscriminately(http://robert-fisk.com/articles41 9.htm) and the iraqi prisoners being abused barbarically(http://robert-fisk.com/articles509.ht m).
Given the track record, i hope to GOD that they will not use it in Iraq, so that the iraqi's are spared some more agony.
slightly off topic but...
Would any american condone it, if the MP fired missles in a market to kill a serial killer who is thought to be there on an 'anonymous' tip and 13 other innocent people die in the missle attack? How can ANYONE condone it? and yet people are supporting this very scenario in Iraq. Why the double standard? WHY NOT RESPECT LIFE EVERYWHERE BE IT ARAB OR ASIAN OR BLACK?
Staying one step ahead!
Commen misconception, US Police can use tear gas, the US military cannot. Some convention or other considers it a chemical weapon, i.e. we can't use it. We also use different bullets than police do, ours dont mushroom in a body (they're not soft), they penetrate through, again because of treaties.
Having been tear gassed before while watching/hangin around a riot/mob it's pretty damn effective for getting you to go elsewhere, especially when the police are massively outnumbered.
I guess I'd have to disagree with you about the police brutality in general, its a tough job. My dad was a Michigan State Trooper, during the Detroit riots. I was raised on different stories than you probably. Rather than say police brutatality I'd say that men in mobs are not men but animals. Again not people exercising their right to assembly, but rioting mobs.
On a side note, the Active Denial System has been ready for a while, like a year, they've delayed deploying it partially so that they could do an in depth review of its legality.
As I said previously you don't really want the military doing non-lethal (my opinion). We're a broad sword, not a scapel.
And hey I'm all about the taxpayers (myslef included, dont know why I pay income tax) feeling more of the war, I'm about war bonds, and ration cards, not tax breaks and enourmous debts.
People don't like Bush, especially dictatorial governments, he seesm to make them nervous.
Yes we never found weapons of mass destruction, Sadaam fooled everybody. Honestly though for me that was never a good reason to come here, personally I'm all about getting rid of psycho tyrants, (your thinking bush is one right now aren't you) and really making the world a better place, what if someone had done this 50 years ago to Stalin, Kim Jung Il, and dozens of others. Saddest chapter in American history is when we abondoned Eastern European countries to the Soviets.
Also as a note, when you say employed by us, he is, majority of people re-elected him and lots of presidents have lied to us, name one that hasn't (especially Kennedy) Yes if a subordinate lied to me they would be in shit, that's the military, we're different than other jobs.
Those civilain numbers, did you actually read how they got those numbers. The 250000 report is off of unsubstantiated media reports. The 100,000 comes from interviewing 500 people around Iraq and then extrapolating those numbers for the rest of the population. Who knows they could be accurate, but that would be by pure chance not by actual scientific method.
I'll say it again, people in the military would target a civilian as readily as you would, no more no less.
As a note, I'm pretty sure the C in C(correct term is CG) has read The art of War. Something I never new until I got in, pretty much every Maj or above has a masters, most generals have doctorates or an equivalent. Military outpaces almost all career fields for highest education level, both enlisted and officers.
And yeah we should have kept that army that killed tens of thousands of its own people.
The media at home might say we are at the tipping point, but its the other way. There's a lot of data the media doesnt have access to. also the vast majority of the country is peaceful. There's like 8 spots in the country where stuff goes down. Otherwise its calm. I'm in the IZ in downtown Baghdad, and I still haven't been nearly as scared here as I have been in downtown Detroit at night.
You can think I'm crazy but I'd say you see a little smoke and think the whole forest is burning. Truth is the fire is already out, its just smoldering and under control.
Any geek worth their salt knows what happens to tin foil in the microwave...
Did anyone stop and think that when they had people remove these items these were TEST cases and they were testing a specific range or threshold of the weapon and that god forbid they have thought of the things that are being brought up and either already figured out a solution to them. I also love how the development of a less lethal weapon is the goverment taking away all your rights. No leap of logic there. Not to mention that the weapon is still in the testing phase and may be scraped if health risks are found. I swear you people wouldn't be happy unless people trying to keep order were only given sweat smelling flowers the try and gently sooth angry mobs into submision.
The Constitution control Ray-Gun will disable consitutional rights of the country where it is applied in for several fragments of a second. The ray also causes unbearable pain, brain damages, and, hopefully, sudden death. It can be applied to huge masses of persons (from satellites, it can be applied to millions of people at the same time).
The best of all: It can be activated automatically and cost less than an average soldier.
Who is it that is defining tear gas as chemical weapons?
Dude, it's Quake in real life!@#
[%] Cingular Ringtones
The police already have numerous, non-lethal ways of dispersing crowds, why would this one suddenly turn us into a fascist state?
Second, the Democrats have had their fair share of rioting at conventions, so why single out Republicans?
Third, our right to peaceable assembly is not being eviscerated. There was plenty of protesting going on outside both party conventions last year.
It'll only make you cook faster!
Has just been revoked. Please clear the area.
You have ten seconds to comply.
Fuck me, what does it take to penetrate with you peaceniks? Its a fucking LESS THAN LETHAL WEAPON. Anything used on a crowd for any reason which is less than lethal is a GOOD thing.
Because in Iraq at the moment there's lots of dedicated Islamonazis running around blowing up innocent men, women, children and little babies. They are too cowardly to take on the US Army or the British Army, but they are quite happy to blow up their fellow Iraqi Muslims.
The crowd control problem comes in when the slightly less dedicated assholes who support the bombers decide to rush a road block, embassy, guard post or what have you. Some of them inevitably use the crowd as cover to fire on US troops, Brit troops, even the new Iraqi Army troops.
So now you've got a bunch of American teenagers in a Bradley or a Humvee, under fire from ten assholes in a crowd of two hundred. You want them to use the fancy ray-gun to flatten the crowd and pick up the ten armed assholes, or would you prefer that they just open fire on the crowd?
Because no matter how much YOU might prefer that the American teenagers take a bullet from the noble freedom fighters, they are not going to do it. Humans are funny that way.
So, superficial burn or bullet to the head? Those are your two choices. Pick one. Idiot.
So, can it be considered a maser weapon?
So, uh, what kind of weaponry is humane?
There are four boxes used in defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury, ammo. Use in that order.
"The heat is on. The heat is o-on. On the street!"
Did Robert Palmer sing that song? It just popped into my head thinking of all the roasting rioters, protestors, dirty hippies, etc.
Every time I walk outside, I experience this.
Oh, wait. I just live in Phoenix.
badum tchhh
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
"If ATF comes to disarm You with arms, resist them with arms. Go for a headshot, they might wear bulletproof wests."
How about taking the handheld version and using it for herding cattle. That is unless the cow is wearing glasses or has coins in his ... well never mind. That would be a great use. Think of the cattle prod fun you could have with your fellow cow pokes. I really don't know where these ideas come from. Too much coffee I suppose.
For those who think this device's use will somehow be limited to rioters, I want you to look up Victoria Snelgrove
She was killed by non-lethal technology (second hand shot from a pepperball gun to the temple) less than one year ago.
Technology always gets used for things other than what it was intended for. From people scratching on turntables, to aircraft, to video game music, to internet over cable, etc.
Those who suggested the emergence of "acceptable casualty rates" have the most foresight. That being said, this thing is pretty powerful. I wouldn't cry chicken little about it yet. The government doesn't get that scary that quickly. However, this is the kind of thing where we really ought to recognize that we can create any kind of technology we want to. Is this "heat ray" what we really want? What if we could instead, say, transport prepared food in minutes between here and other countries? You could feast on different food every night from around the world!
Probably one of the scarier things about this is it looks easy to build. Just a high-powered oscillator and Fresnel antenna (look closely at the pics). Now that the US has put the idea out there, I can imagine all kinds of people making their own...and forgetting to ask people to take off their glasses and remove their keys and pocket change and turn it off after five seconds.
And for those who might say 65 GHz oscillators are difficult, I thought they were too, until I just looked them up and found parts.
Remember, it feels like heat, because it IS heat.
And finally: "After her death , Boston Red Sox outfielder Trot Nixon said he would have traded back Game 7 Of The 2004 ALCS to have her back."
Never have I been less proud to be an American (well, maybe during the last two elections)
That's Glenn Frey, and IIRC the song got a lot of extra play thanks to its use in an episode of Miami Vice.
Tubbs, you idiot! You flash-cooked my alligator with your damned riot control ray-gun!
3000+ comments meta-modded. 0 mod points awarded.
Lesson for other meta-suckers: Don't believe the hype!
I wonder if i need some leaddet pants, if i still want to have some children and at the same time riot against the supression and secrecy of goverments?
Cos i belive this is their goal, to castrate ppl who show their fealings.
No more babbyes for the evil wrong do'ers...
25,000 civilians dead in Iraq since the invasion, 80% killed by the occupying forces (the rest by the insugents).
And now we want to use ray guns. Anyone else think the world's going a bit mad?
Comparing the 25,000 figure with the death toll due to terrorism around the world leads me to think that the west's policy is "an eye for an eyelash".
There are significant health risks to certain individuals when targeted by 'non-lethal' riot-control measures. For example, persons with acute asthma (like me) can experience a fatal reaction to tear gas or pepper spray. Likewise, I imagine a person with lens implants in their eyes (like me) might be at risk for permanent damage, even blindness, when exposed to this 'non-lethal' microwave weapon.
And there is always the high probability of people being hurt in a stampede to get away from such weapons.
'Non-lethal' does not mean 'harmless', people. And guess what? The government won't care.
Serving your airship needs since 1995.
When "anarchists" have been present in past protests, they have been shown to be plain clothes policemen for the purposes of provocateuring (starting violence) which then give police the justification to crack everybody's head. Just concoct a few anarchists and it doesn't matter if it's ray guns or tractor beams. The end result is the same: the scientific dictatorship is setting the rules and your opinion doesn't count.
Are they going to test it with the Brown Note?
"Worker bees can leave
Even drones can fly away
The Queen is their slave."
In what way does this device make them 'feel' they are being burned alive rather than actually burning them alive? This isn't pepper spray that triggers pain sensors without associated damage. This thing makes people feel like they are burning because it is in fact cooking them!
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
Just think - You could take out all the RFIDz at the WalMart in one shot!
---- "Logoff! That cookie shit makes me nervous!" - A. Soprano
a result of looking what this could turn in to. Sure, most of us might not ever be in a riot, but I can easily see myself being involved in a peaceful protest (in the future) where our government has simply gone too far in taking our rights away. Then, while the protest is entirely peaceful, there are so many of us that the authorities simply stop caring, or even worse, plan to ignore the masses. Weapons like these make it all the more difficult for us to overthrow the governing body, should the majority find it inadequate and not sufficiently capable of fair ruling.
Its getting easier and easier for the gov't to supress, rather than acknowledge, the problem at hand, whatever it be; and we are the ones giving ground.
Don't get me wrong, I think stopping violent riots is a good thing. Using this would most likely save more lives than it would take; however this is teatering on the "cruel and unusual" line. I know thats for punishment, but I think the idea ought still apply for contol of the masses. Inducing nausea is simply not humane. Nor is making a person's skin feel like it's on fire. Each law inforcement officer should be subjected to the effects of each weapon they will be using before they are given conrol....say 5 seconds....enough to keep in mind the power they are wielding. Pay them a bit more, I don't care; just make sure they are as sparing as possible in the "non-lethal" weapon's use.
I tinfoil outfit would be just enogh to block the beam, it woult get really hot though.
=)
If so, it could give the the people using this weapon a nasty suprise.
How long until a bunch of troops are being ripped apart in the press for rigging one of these to fire continuously and cause burns, or take turns firing multiple units to achieve a constant stream of microwaves? The problem with non-lethal weapons is that the people who use them like to kill people, and always find ways. Police and soldiers have abused and killed people with stun guns, tasers, even shot people in the head with gas grenades; giving trained killers a microwave cannon and assuming that they won't do something odious with it is moronic.
Entertainment.
Beg your pardon, was our goal to be slightly less arbitrarily violent than Saddam Hussein? High standards you've set, there.
We've heard this one about Abu Graib, too -- as if noting that Saddam's torturers were worse absolved us of the moral responsibility for our leaders' loosened torture policies and their seemingly inevitable results. That argument clearly didn't reach any sort of tipping point for the Iraqi population, didn't deprive the terrorists of their ability to move and strike. It seems to have done just tons to reassure uneasy Iowans, or anyway that's who it was intended for, but in Iraq it was a non-starter.
The parent's point is that the ability of the U.S. military to fire off these "ray guns" with relative impunity would, if anything, undercut the struggle for Iraqi "hearts and minds." Your argument is just one more example of how clueless the authors of this policy really are with respect to that fight. Our leaders understand how to address you -- but me, or a moderate Iraqi intellectual? They have no ability to think that far away from their "base." Which base, in turn, has its head so far up its own ideological colon that it's unable to even ask whether things are working or not...
"Fundamentalism" isn't about divine morality. It's about human authority.
Someone will surely hold up kids, or carry them in papoose slings in front of them and hope the cameras capture screaming kids.
I also wonder what portable misters might do if used in front of someone. Is it stopped by high levels of humidity thrown up, or does it turn into one big microwave oven?
And suddenly an entire group of rioters will be waving metal pompoms in front of their faces, wearing tin foil underwear and having the second wave behind them launching molotov cocktails or hefting other weaponry.
Will new heat sensitive, foil wrapped explosives (and no, we're not talking about burritos) be used by radicals to blow up people, and the blame be shifted to the ray gun operators for detonating it?
Perhaps I'm missing the point but I come here for news and chat about technology, hardware, software & geeky or nerdy stuff. Two Words for you: *******Ray Gun*******. Here is where your "technology" is headed towards. But the second a real-world assesment is made about the use and abuse with the technology, you want to turn a blind eye. Theres a certain level to which I am a geek.
Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
The reason that the lefties are up in arms about this weapon is not because it might cause a few injuries while dispersing crowds.
A lot of people go to political demonstrations WITH THE INTENTION of getting arrested, hopefully while the cameras are rolling, so that they can advance their cause and claim to be martyrs. If the police roll out a weapon that is largely invisible to the cameras, and causes people to flee rather than confront, then this is not good news for the grandstanders, and (sadly) they will have to go home without an arrest record.
It's using an Intel Prescott chip running at 95GHz.
Well, speaking of ostensibly non-lethal weapons, what's more entertaining than the idea of just spraying dope on people was a weapon that was actually looked into by the CIA, the Gay Bomb, designed to spread an aphrodisiac over the enemy, filling them with such uncontrollable lust that they'd have to show that affection for each other, distracting them from whatever they were doing. :)
Apeaking of the microwave weapon, this isn't a new device, but the reason its use didnt go beyond testing in the USA was the fear of damaging tissue such as the eyes. Not impressed to see them foist an imperfect but forceful weapon off to Iraq...
Yup...
It is not the Uranium content that makes DU ammunitions "hot", but the assorted contaminants. Remember where the military gets the stuff? They cant afford to use "lab-grade" stuff (made from freshly-mined ore), so they buy at the other end of the nuclear fuel processing chain:
Military-grade DU is actually nuclear waste, mamely the "everything else" part that is left over after you have extracted the few elements/isotopes that can be profitably recycled. Sure, it is "mostly" Uranium (enough so give it the desired pyhsical properties: high density, internal structure, hardness). But on the radiological level the contaminants are very significant (e.g. lots of short-lived (=hot) decay products)
... the weapon backfires the first time it gets used in the field... and see BushCo. spin *that*. I can see it now: "Thanks to the Liberal Media who doesn't know when to shut up, the Evil Insurgents got a hold on the fact that we were using this weapon and created one of their own... which is *PROOF* that Saddam has WMD's..." *eye roll*
"This is a good point, and a view that is probably underrepresented here. The act of rioting does not deserve a defense. "
It does if you're doing a "Boston Tea Party/Rodney King" defense as part of your argument.[1]
"Now, as a result of this and the fact that clean water and electricity are in short supply, we have rioting. "
Simple. We fix, they blow it up. Yes it does get back to that whole "mismanagment" issue, but the blame isn't a black and white issue.*
*In fact the news mentioned yesterday that a lot of Iraqi's believe that we created the insurgency so we could stay in Iraq.
[1] Never mind the "cutting off your nose to spite your face" consequences of destroying your own neighbourhood.
Can anyone comment on whether it is possible to make a cheap retroreflector that would work at 95GHz, to reflect the radiation back toward the source? Couldn't you just stamp a sheet of metal into groups of three surfaces at 90 degree angles, like the way a vehicle reflector works?
I work in military modeling and simulation, and I saw this demonstrated by AEgis Tech in Hunstville (who were the software modsim on the program). They demonstrated both a pure software simulation as well as real video footage of a crowd control experiment using the actual non-lethal weapon.
This is an impressive technology -- it is a huge improvement over "stop or we'll shoot." Now soldiers have another option to disperse crowds that is usable in urban areas.
Remember kids... if your playing next door to the protesters don't forget to put on your sunscreen!
"Truth is much too complicated to allow anything but approximations." -J Von Neumann
He just hit the nail ON THE HEAD(tm). This is the source of the entire controversy: giving extremely 'effective' weapons to persons who may or may not use them for proper purposes, and who may not even understand what they do. Probably, a whole lot of people are going to get blinded by this before anybody even gets the lawsuit going.
Mod him up, up, up!
The difference between spam and poop is that you don't have to dig through septic tanks looking for real food. -- Me
Show me a hand-held device that defeats television.
Ahem.
until they paint a big Eye of Sauron onto the reflector dish and mount one at the top of the Washington Monument.
and that makes it right?
I completely forgot that I have to wait till i am personally being represed to fight back. other people? FUCK EM! I'll wait till the boots in my face. Whats that? no ones left to help me? uhoh
I'll just use my special getting high powers one more time...
Yes its depleted or most radioactivity, but it's still a burning heavy metal regardless.
The days of the digital watch are numbered.
I guess this means that, since I wear contacts or glasses every day, that I'll just have to have lasic surgery that much earlier...
Normally on Slashdot, when an inaccurate statement or innuendo is posted, a response citing facts that rebut it will be quickly modded up.
The exception seems to be that if the statement or innuendo is Anti-American.
I guess the old chestnut that "America supplied Saddam with his arms" is just too good to give up, no matter what the facts are.
...in Iraq, and 20 or 30 thousand MORE American troops in America, doing more or less the same job, but with badges & blue uniforms, instead of khaki.
Seriously, what line of work do the ex-soldiers go into when they leave the military? Alot of 'em become cops, of one type or another.
The American police is already highly militarized, and the Iraq war is serving as a training ground for the next-generation of domestic law-enforcement, which is going to have LOTS of experience dealing with issues like rioting and crowd-control.
So you mean to tell me that if you were in the cinema watching a movie, it would be okay for the cinema owners to interrupt that movie halfway through to tell you that somebody's backed into someone else's car in the car park? Um that's not really much of an accurate analogy. In that case, people tend to figure "well ok, he hit someone's car; it's not mine, it's not going to affect me, why are you telling me." With the DMCA, and the microwave ray, if you still want to keep your movie analogy, it'd be more like the cinema owners interrupting to tell you that some guy is driving through the parking lot with a monster truck. Sure maybe your car will be spared, or maybe it'll make a nice skateboard when you come out.
If I'm ever involved in a peaceful protest (oops, I mean riot - in government-speak) I guess I'll have to remember to bring my giant parabolic reflector with me, and shoot that beam right back at them!
Unauthorized use of this device for interrogation of detainees in 5, 4, 3, 2. . .
These are my friends, See how they glisten. See this one shine, how he smiles in the light.
Another example of the kind of truly sickening fascist ideas that have been coming out of America recently.
Yes, because we all know that when CaptainNoob37 kills somebody in Half-Life a real civilian plops down dead
Pacifist-geeks might not find this interesting, others prefer to live in the real world where all technology is of consequence... some for reasons that we wish to avoid being victim of it rather than intending to use it ourselves.
Would have been really funny...but sadly this is how America works these days....
A metal armor like they were used a few hundred years ago in Europe would be pretty effective. The point here is that you must protect the whole body, not just the chest. Think of a giant tin foil armor.
cpghost at Cordula's Web.
because the article is about a new weapon being used against people who ARE 'rocking-the-boat'.
-- The InterNet is a terrible thing to waste.. arrest bill gates and shut down microsoft immediately.
I will gladly loose all of life's battles.. in order to win the war..
The 20mm Vulcan Phalanx CIWS used on ships and the 30mm GAU-8 used on the A-10 also fire DU rounds.
Hey is that Andy Richter (from the Conan Obrien show) in that photo? Now we know why he quit...
0 05/images/nonlethal-weaponry_nr.jpg
http://www.sandia.gov/news-center/news-releases/2
Very interesting to read this article today, after just last night reading The Pain Gun, by Gregory Benford in the July/August issue of Analog Science Fiction, which uses exactly that type of weapon in it...
This is a comment about the nature of the vast majority of comments on this. From the sound of it, you would think that we may be in danger of George Bush and Rumsfeld using a ray gun on anyone who doesn't agree with them. Where did common sense go? I don't seem to recall so many worries about our personal safety when Janet Reno torched a group of Christians. What I don't understand is why you peace-nicks wouldn't rather have our military using microwaves than bombs? If you really are non-violent types, you should appreciate a better non-lethal weapon. I think what bugs you closet communists though is the spread of democracy. So, you twist up the issue to make it seem as though some freedom of yours has just been eroded.
sounds like it's about time for the tin foil hat and body suit/armor, or would that just arc and cause a slight buring sensation.
I wonder what it would do to a single flat sheet of foil taped to cardboard box. Metal in a microwave will heat up and if it's close enough together, arc; ball of foil, fork, AOL cd. But that's in a closed space.
What's next? The microwave tank from C&C Zero Hour that does fry people and disable buildings with its microwave laser. Finally something that will heat up the bad guy's weapon and make them drops it? I hope it's not strong enough to cause arcing in cartrige casings or the detonation of explosives.
F7 doesn't work, ignore spelling and grammar
Well, weapons that are less than nonlethethal weapons can be a good thing in a situation where your protesters are likely to present a real security threat to the military/police. But, they are not *always* a good thing. Think about the cases where the protesters are instead protesting peacefully, but the authorities really just don't like what they are saying.
Remember Tiananmen Square in China? The Chinese Military was very reluctant to run over its own people with Tanks, for example. Remember that guy who stepped out in front of the tank? The military person driving the tank stopped the tank rather than run over him. Some times, people are very unwilling to shoot peaceful protesters with machine guns. Because of this, the Chinese were able to have an inspiring protest that was not just broken up by trivial measures.
Remember Gandhi? He was committed to nonviolent protest. There is a certain difficulty for a military force when faced with someone like Gandhi when armed with rifles. You only have a finite supply of bullets, and each innocent person you kill only strengthens the resolve of the protesters.
A nonlethal weapon changes things considerably, and potentially in a concerning way. If a protester says, "We hate the Rebulicans", or "The troops should leave Iraq" or "The government sucks" or they burn a flag, or they say, "Monica was really not as pretty as Marilyn Monroe. WTF were you thinking?!!" the authorities might be tempted to use their ray guns to break them up.
This could have a chilling effect on free speach, and on people's right to protest. I will stand up to any member of the military that I served with and express my political opinions and trust him or her to not put a bullet through my head. But, if I am in a crowd of protesters, and someone decides to burn a flag, I know that many of those same people would pull the trigger on the ray gun in a heart beat.
And that is what I am concerned about.
Randy.Flood@RHCE2B.COM
So maybe this was the test run for "fine tuning"? I suppose it's OK to test this on "enemy combatants" even if it has horrific results. Oh well, war is profitable. The beat goes on. Tralalalala.
-"...bad old ideas look confusingly fresh when they are packaged as technology" - Jaron Lanier (Digital Maoism on Edge.o
My impression from what I see on the media is that (besides IEDs) our forces are hit by bad guys who fire and then disappear, or blend into the crowd, or who appear to be good guys, and then pull out a weapon or blow themselves up. Is this correct? If so, the the weapon would be have to be used somewhat indiscriminately. Not that there is anything wrong with that IMHO, if you like to hang out on the street corner and watch your insurgent buddies you're asking for trouble.
Another use for the microwave beam might be to disrupt IEDs. Useful - you could zap a guy and if he's a suicide bomber he blows up, if he's not he just gets a headache.
Give a man a fish and you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish, and he'll say "WHERE'S MY FISH, YOU IDIOT?"
First off, God bless you and your fellow soldiers, airmen, Marines, sailors, Guardsmen, civilians, and whoever else I can't think to name but still remember. There are a lot of us here in the States who agree with what you're doing and why, and pray for your success with the mission and your safe return home.
There has always been distrust of Government, ever since the Founders created the US, and although a small amount is healthy, for a few decades now there has been an overrreaction on the part of a vocal few, mostly the children and grandchildren of privilege, who think that our peaceful, representative government means them harm by default. They are taught that we are all undeserving of our peace and comfort, and see fascists in every uniform. They presume that any tool that can be used by law enforcement will be used, by default, to harm them. This leads them to advocate a "by any means necessary" approach to "protesting" where "protesters" can use any means including violence, assault, and theft as part of their "protest." I can't see them as rational, as aguments based on reality don't seem to affect them, so for the most part I ignore them unless they are disrupting my life directly.
As an electronic tech by training, I admit I'm queasy about shooting high energy microwaves around willy-nilly (I know, they're directed and not as high energy as a military radar, but still), so I'd like to see this have as much testing as possible. But, if it turns out to be no more hazardous than other things we use, and if it is at least as effective as other tools, why not allow it? In your situation, I'm sure the more lives that can be saved by dispersing riots, the better.
Detroit, huh? I was a little kid during those riots, I lived in a small apartment off Grand River pretty close to Tiger Stadium, and I remember sitting on the front steps watching the flames a couple blocks away. One night during that week I looked out from a window and saw a sea of flashing lights, someone had reported a sniper on the roof of our apartment! Wouldn't it be coincidence if your Dad was one of those officers?
At any rate, keep up the good work, God speed, and come home safe!
(I hope you get to read this before it's modded into negative territory)
By the taping of my glasses, something geeky this way passes
Why didn't they opt for the super-slime that they developed under the same program? I see far less potential for abuse as the slime doesn't actively burn you. And when the rioters get home it's not like they'll have as good of a reason to be angry.
"How was the riot?"
"We got dispersed."
"Did they hurt you? Tear gas? Bean bags? Ray guns?"
"Naw, they sprayed us with slime."
"Corrosive slime?"
"Actually, it was just really slippery so we couldn't stand up."
"Those bastards!"
"Yeah. Um, I'm gonna go take a couple or three showers now."
---k--
</stupid>
I can see civilian applications for this. Imagine a low power version warming up fans at an (American) football game in Buffalo in January!
This new weapon will be abused; it's simply a matter of time. It's an unfortunate reality that the authorities tend to have less respect for peaceful dissent than most citizens. We have the right to protest, but the government does not seem to protect that right very vigilantly. In fact, the actions of the current regime are closer to that of a dictatorship. The future of America looks dark.
Electric Monkey Pants
I sort of had the same thought you did; but wondered if the "crowd control" thing was more of an excuse for creating the device.
I wonder how effective it would be as a device for cover and suppression. If you aimed it at the window of a building from which an enemy (insurgent or otherwise) fighter was operating, could it be enough of a deterrent to allow your troops to better position themselves, or to otherwise act on the enemy's position?
The enemy fighter would likely limit his exposure to the window anyhow; but especially if anything he exposed to the window burned within seconds or sparked off like a spoon left in the microwave. I would think that would make it easier to position your own men. But then, I don't know how quickly this thing really acts. It may still be possible ot take quick peeks.
Any of you military folks have an opinion?
Hot Damn! It's the Soggy Bottom Boys!
Working at a Veterans' Clinic, I can say that the concerns about Depleted Uranium exposure are very real, for both the Vets and the people who are treating them after their service. The long term health implications are still being evaluated, and all the angles need to be carefully considered.
"What do you think?" "I think 'What, do you think?!'"
The Worldwide Coalition of Coin-Eating Child Protestors (WCCCP) is outraged at the new ADS systems, citing it as a violation of their penny-eating freedoms. "Do you have any idea what this raygun would do to someone who's just consumed their typical 25cents in pennies?", a spokesman for the WCCCP said Thursday. But really, hasn't anyone in the military watched Akira? It proved to us that gut-firing protestors with smoke grenades is the most effective, or at least most totally rockin' method of dispersing a crowd.
i can see the head lines... man cooked microwave style by riot police
(yes i know i suck at spelling fell free to correct my grammar and/or spellin i dont care, im still not going to change
Not long ago I listened to an audio recording of a woman being tased because she tried to talk to her lawyer on her cell phone instead of stepping out of the car when a cop pulled her over for speeding. I'm pretty sure that's not what the police are told to do when handed a taser.
I'm guessing the first creative abuses of this thing are going to come when police realize that their lives are less at risk if they just wave one of these around before they knock on that door for a domestic disturbance. A couple of those get ignored by the press, and you start to think how much easier this could make it to put those uppity, noisy, drunken college frat boys in their place before one of them thinks his dad can bail him out when he throws a punch. And protests? Nice, we can now be sure that anything that threatens the status-quo will dissapear with little fuss, not to mention shutting those stupid hippies up for good this time.
At least I've a good counter for people claiming the right to bear arms in case their government gets out of hand. Buddy, they doen't even have to say "drop it" anymore. You and your whole militia will be prostate and begging within 5 1/2 seconds.
At no time time during the Iraq - Iran war did the sale of military weapons between USSR and Iraq stop or slow down. http://www.sipri.org/contents/armstrad/TIV_imp_IRQ _70-04.pdf
If you read something more than political slogans about Nazism, you'll realize how overstated your argument is. The Nazi party had in its official program the implementation of a dictatorship. It was a priority in their policy, people who voted for Nazis knew from the very start that their party believed that democracy was only a temporary means for achieving a dictatorship, where the wise leaders would chose what was best for the ignorant people.
If your "rioters" hold steel plates could you bounce the waves back.
What the hell kind of man are you if you have to resort to childish name calling? You know, putting it in capital letters does not make it a more convincing argument.
It's not a superficial burn if the fucking thing causes cancer. You know, after the initial blast in Hiroshima, people thought the worst was over. They thought that didn't have any side effects either. Then came the hair falling out and the birth defects. Who's to say this tazer thing is any different?
Given how we've already caused strange diseases amongst Iraqis and US servicemen with our depleted uranium, why should I trust the Pentagon on this matter?
This gets an Insightful mod? He (or she) is a freakin' Marine! It's his job to go where the commander in chief tells him to go. Ideally, that would involve defending our country. Sometimes it means helping victims of natural disasters. It almost always means he's putting himself in harms way.
You can bitch and complain about how our current President is exercising a personal vendetta and ignoring real problems in both our country and the world. I know that I often do - I even had to remind my right-leaning in-laws that the terrorist plot to bomb the WTC/Pent./? was mastermided in Afghanistan, not Iraq. Don't for a minute blame the soldiers on the ground. They are there to do their job. A job that puts food in their families mouth and a roof over their heads. And, ideally, a job that keeps us safe, should a country decide it would be a good idea to try and appropriate some real estate stateside.
Is it just my observation, or are there way too many stupid people in the world?
I personally think its a dangerous escalation. If the authorities start firing this at people then it can surely only be a matter of time until they start firing back.
I don't think our enemies will adopt this weapon, because it's non-lethal and doesn't instill the fear that a good beheading or car bombing does. But we can always hope...
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
i wonder what all the participating parties will be called in the end
operator: fry guy? friendly fryer, maybe?
rioters: freedom fries? texas fried rioters?
there's a cartoon about it from minimumsecurity.net
http://www.minimumsecurity.net/toons/127.htm
Show me a hand-held device that defeats television. Show me a device which will de-fuse a rabid neo-con. Show me a tool that can be used to bring religions together in peace.
http://www.freep.com/art/2000/mar/03/handgun.jpg
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
...if that Marine could've incapacitated that child instead of killing him, then the Marine can go home knowing that he completed his mission and didn't have to shoot a child, and that child can go home alive.
So the child goes home alive, then gets another gun and comes after you tomorrow? Or do you throw the kid in prison, until he learns to love those who have invaded his country?
I have tremendous respect for our armed forces, but let's face it, Bush and Co have put them in an impossible situation. If Arabs invaded the US to share the benefits of Islamic law with us, how much would we welcome them?
Never let a lack of data get in the way of a good rant.
you don't think anyone would have a problem but the ACLU?
it's getting to me that people reduce discussions like this into "Well, in america we are safe, cause with the two-party system, one side will always whine about things, so the other side will never be able to take over and do awful things." (in this case, you're saying that the ACLU will have a "field day" probably makin a "big deal" out of people getting burned alive from the inside out)
i'd like to think that USING A 95GHZ on civilians would raise more of an outry than what you call an ACLU "field day."
oh well. so much for america.
Wonder if making people feel like they're being burned alive counts as torture?
I'd rather have this weapon used on me than a conventional, lethal weapon. Wouldn't you?
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
http://www.freep.com/art/2000/mar/03/handgun.jpg
what part of the word 'peace' do you not understand?
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
If this ray thing is designed to heat people up and make them leave I can think of a number of issues with it:
A) These people are being cooked, and if more than one beam is used I can easily see a fatality because the microwave passes through people. Imagine two beams and a person who just happens to be at the intercet of these beams =/
The people firing the beam surely don't realize that someone in the middle of the crowd is getting double the dosage of microwaves.
B) nearly anything available to the common citizen is readily available to reflect / absorb this beam back. The first thing that I can think of is the hood of a car.
inhumane weaponry like this
If you call a non-lethal weapon like this "inhumane," I'd hate to see what you call a cluster bomb or a tactical nuke.
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
Rioters can kill you, too.
Would you rather they have to use lethal force, or something that (hopefully) won't kill them?
There was an episode of The X-Files where Mulder asked a genie (yes, as in bottle, three wishes, etc.) for peace on Earth. The wish is granted, he walks outside, and realizes he's the only person left in Washington, D.C., and presumably the planet.
That said, it was a joke.
Quantum materiae materietur marmota monax si marmota monax materiam possit materiari?
No. It's a less lethal weapon. There's a good reason that they're not calling them "nonlethal" anymore.
Re: X-Files.
I am interested in your newsletter and would like to learn more.
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
Right. I'm sure the pigs will exercise a strict restraint in this area.
Anyway if you're spraying a crowd of hundreds with this thing, how can you ever be certain a single individual isn't getting more than his share of the beam?
This kind of thing is just going to make it easier for cops to abuse demonstrators without any serious consequences.
... frickin' mount this on a frickin' shark's head?
When faced with a government that does things like turning microwave weapons on peaceful demonstrators, the obvious thing to do is depose it. The US government doesn't do that kind of thing as a matter of policy and never has. Well, except for Waco I suppose. Even there 80 kids would be alive if they used the raygun on the Davidians instead of the ATF monkey squad.
The Chicoms swapped out the local soldiers in Tianamen Square who were reluctant to drive over the protester with some non-local boys and we had the Tianamen Square Unpleasantness. There was a revolution about to pop and they squashed it as hard as they could.
Difference between the USA and Chicomland is that Chicoms PREFER live ammo. They don't mind killing a few thousand demonstrators if the rest of the country keep their heads down as a result.
For you to pretend the US and Chinese governments are even remotely similar is so ridiculous its hilarious. No wonder the Democrats can't get elected as dog catcher.
Burning the American flag in America is an announcement that you are an opponent of freedom and justice and basically up to no good. I would think you'd prefer the raygun to being shot by some pissed off citizen myself. Outside Berkley CA people are liable to do that to flag burners.
And by the way. Ghandi was a wild eyed socialist whose "reforms" held back progress in India until the 1980's and killed millions by starvation. Hasn't been a famine in India since the Ghandis were booted out of power. They EXPORT food now. Ghandi was a gold plated imbecile.
This is not a weapon for use against suicide bombers. Or enemy combatants. This is by design a weapon for use against civilians.
God Bless America!
Peace through superior firepower -- a piece of him here, a piece of him there. OTOH, I doubt a .25 would reliably stop anything larger than a large rat. There's a reason they're called 'mouseguns'
The poster apparently laments the fact that those at whom this pain-ray will be deployed will not be extended the courtesy of removing glasses and contact lenses. As snarkiness goes, that's a good line.
However, I believe that the device will be deployed against people who have been extended the courtesy of an invitation to depart. I believe standard procedure is to command rioters/protesters/whatever to disperse. If you're absent, the ray won't affect your eyewear.
Four students in Ohio in 1970 learned the hard way that leaving the scene of a riot/protest/whatever is the safer decision. Please don't misunderstand. I'm not condemning protest and/or civil disobedience. Civil disobedience has a long and honored history extending back to Socrates. But Socrates did not balk at the hemlock, but manfully drank it.
At Kent State, the National Guard had guns and tear gas to use against protesters. With deadly force being tossed around it's easy for a protester to miscalculate and be charged a much higher price of civil disobedience than s/he originally intended. There's a big step between tear gas and a bullet. If it's bad to hurt but-not-kill people, or maybe endanger their eyesight, is it better to shoot them? Or is it best to merely retreat s'il vous plait?
I'm a bigger man than you, monkeyboy. I put my karma on my comments.
Please count to 10 before pressing submit in the future.
People are the problem, stop procreation now!
Our freedom was not created by peacable assemblies. Why do people think this is the only kind of assembly that should be allowed?
The point is if they use the raygun and somebody dies, its an accident. 99.93% un-lethal except by unfortunate misadventure. Likewise if you shoot somebody and they -don't- die, that's an accident too. Even pepper spray can be lethal on certain rare people, but not deliberately so. And its a hell of a lot safer than a night stick, right?
The intent is not to kill anybody in a hostile and possibly armed crowd while making the crowd stop fighting. That's a tall order. If this thing can do it, its top notch. It also is not the kind of thing some violent tyranical government is going to waste money inventing.
Should some future offical turn such a weapon on a peaceful group for some nefarious purpose that would be very bad. But not as bad as machine gunning the crowd or beating the crap out of them with sticks, right?
People are the problem, stop procreation now!
I would imagine that a foil lined garment with a ground strap under the shoe would block most of this....
Army Alright rioters, please remove any glass or contacts from your bo- hey! stop that! gets hit by a rock Remove any foreign object from your body before we use the pain ray-Shit that hurt! gets hit by another rock If you do not remove the- Mother Fucker, that's my eye! army guy shoots the rock thrower Alright, again please remove any conatscts or glass from your person so that we can safely use the Ray of Pain on you!
The gradual increase in bullying and abuse of the citizenary by the government and the corporations which own it will lead to more and more resistance over time. This will result in one of two things: either peaceful change/reform from within the system, as has happened in the past (cf. the Populism/Progressivism eras, the New Deal, the Civil Rights movement); or violent overthrow of the system entirely (cf. Russian, Chinese and Iranian revolutions). As there seems to be a concerted effort by the ruling classes to marginalize and/or shut off avenues of peaceful change there is a grave danger that violent revolution may be the end result (anyone who thinks that the latter could never happen in the U.S. is delusional. Get enough people angry and all the tanks, planes and bombs in the world won't keep them from your throat).
This would be very bad, because the more violent and bloody the revolution is, the more radical and extremist the resulting system will be. So instead of getting a new constitutional government of limited powers, as in the days of old, we may wind up with some kind of Marxist regime or - more likely in the individualist U.S.A. - the world's first Objectivist state. Either one of these would be a disaster IMOHO. Therefore, anyone who truly cares about the future should work for peaceful change and genuine reform now, before it is too late.
If it isn't already.
"...leaving the rest of the "peaceful demonstrators" to take the heat (sorry) for their indescretions."
no apology needed.
Seriously, this attitude is why crappy patents and laws like the DMCA are passed uncontested. It's all very nice living with blinkers on your eyes, ignoring the real world, but don't go crying when that world rudely intrudes on your own life.
You misspelled blinders.
I was thinking that a lockout would be nice for this sort of system, something like an interlock that keeps it from firing for more than a second or two. Then again, I wouldn't want to _need_ to fire the thing (say, swing it around to get a different crowd) only to be told that I have to wait five seconds before firing.
There are already millions of non-lethal weapons in the world, they're called books.
[http://it-tastes-so-good.blogspot.com] Are you hungry?
Someone takes part in a protest, the police turn thi s on them, later on down the line they develop cancer randomly and sue the hell out of the goverment for killing them.
Note: I apologize, but this post will not contain paranoid, inflamatory political rhetoric. Mods, you may now move on or mod me as flamebait/troll/redundant now.
Let's seriously take a look at other riot control options.
Assuming a riot is an activity that we want to stop to protect lives and property of law abiding citizens (and it generally is, ask the good people of Seattle or LA), it is in the public interest to put a stop to this activity without killing the participants. Presently, options are as follows:
Baton/Shield - Places both rioter and police officer at high risk. Capable of inflicting much more damage than is necessary and can possibly be inflict a mortal wound. Requires a large amount of riot police to be effective, and a large amount of medical personnel on site later to clean up.
Tear Gas - extremely problematic. Places rioters, bystanders, police, and everyone at risk. A friend of mine who was a rather high ranking police officer was put into a crowd to observe it and report on problems. The crowd around him quickly became unruly and tear gas was called in (not his choice, but it's a risk you take). A very young, inexperienced officer fired, striking his partner in the crowd in the leg. Luckily, it ricochetted off of the pavement before it hit him, otherwise it could have broken his shin. The canisters are a danger, but the gas is even worse. Wind carries the gas back at the police, towards innocent bystanders, or wherever it will. Using too much gas on accident can cause severe respritory problems. Any asthmatics in the area will be affected very strongly. The gas can be sucked into nearby buildings by air conditioning systems. Most LEOs aren't a big fan of using it in riot situations except when they have to.
Concussion Grenades - risk of ear damage, those too close to the explosion could get burned, the weapon could propel shrapnel. Not a great option.
"Pepperballs" - Basically, paintballs filled with pepper spray. The effective range is fairly short, which means officers must get in fairly close. The risk of shooting what are basically paintballs at people with no eye protection should be painfully obvious.
Rubber Bullets/Bean Bags - Truly "less lethal", but not entirely. Not the preferred option at all because they can kill and will do a great amount of damage to soft flesh. They also pose a great risk to the eyes of rioters. From a tactical standpoint, there's also the question of what to do when you run out. A single rubber baton or bean bag (generally fired from a shot gun) will stop one person. That's it. Assuming you've got a load of 8 rounds in your shotgun and 75% accuracy you can stop 6 people at the most. After that, it's going to take a while to reload, and you run the risk of putting in a non-riot round on accident that will kill a target rather than stun it (the problem when you're using the same gun for two things).
Foam guns - not fast enough, not effective against large groups, very short range. Places Police officer in unacceptable risk.
Water Cannons - Not gonna fly in the US. They are tied to the race riots/demonstrations of the 60's and 70's and any use of them would be seen as inherently racist and demeaning. They also pose a risk to eyes.
The microwave weapon - which poses less risk to eyes, can be used at a distance, doesn't put innocent bystanders at risk, and doesn't run a high risk of causing severe damage to the user or the one it is used upon, should be looking pretty good right about now.
Go ahead and complain all you want. Sure, the rioters are just "freedom fighters" out there expressing their first amendment rights by smashing stores, cars, and police stations. Personally, as someone who has been in a riot situation before (surrounded by it and trapped in my home in South America, long story) I'd like to see the police be able to put a stop to it without killing the rioters and placing themselves at risk.
As far as the claim that this weapon w
Quote from this report: "The Active Denial System weapon, classified as "less lethal" by the Pentagon..."
That that is is that that that that is not is not.
Why dont you americans just fsck off out everyone else's business. We DONT need you. Live with it. Stop trying to make situations where the rest of the world depends on you. Get the FSCK out of Iraq too. Go home, go to your land of so called freedom, a land of total paranoia and litigation. And you believe these are things worth fighting for?
Those are valid points about the technology, and they've been made elsewhere in this thread. But that's a separate argument than the one that's being argued in this thread.
The arguments against this weapon have overwhelmingly set that possibility of long-term damage aside, and instead claimed that the government with ANY KIND of non-lethal weapon is a huge threat. That argument sidesteps particulars about the weapon, and that's the kind of argument THIS thread is on. The gov't using it without cause, supressing free speech, etc.
The GP poster is correctly saying that it's far better to have this weapon on-hand than to have to resort to gunning down swaths of people at the first hint of a threat to the soldiers'/officers' lives.
what scares me about devices like this...Is that they're not used INSTEAD of lethal action, they just create a new step for law enforcement to take.
:) In the past when I had dealings with the police, they would have just broken it up.
They don't save lives, IMHO, they just give rights to the policement to use excessive force. In the past when a police officer was arresting someone who was resisting, they'd just have a bunch of guys hold him down and cuff him.
Now they see fit to zap you with electricity, or pepper spray, rubber bullets, bean bags, etc. Which generally cause considerably more harm, if temporarily, to the person.
It seems like they're willing to use these devices without even trying to see if the person is reasonable.
My own experiences:
More and more police seem to use force first, instead of trying other things. They're bullies. I remember during the Vancouver riots, I'd get threatened (holding their clubs up to me and telling me to get off the street or else kind if deal) by riot police walking down the streets... before the riot even started.
Several years back I got into a fight after a fireworks event. The police rushed in and pepper sprayed me and the other person very badly. I ended up tripping on the curb because I couldn't see and smashing my face open. (Still got a nice scar, thank god the ladies like them
Now you might think that I got what I deserved, but I was just defending myself. I'm not your average nerd though, I have a lot of tattoos, and had worked out for ages. I figure because I looked rough, the cops felt justified to do this to me. This was before they had tasers out here, or maybe it would have been much worse.
Now I don't live in Iraq, so I can't say if they need these there or not, but it kind of scares me to think of local cops having access to them when large groups of people are around. Violent or not.
If I can't smoke and swear I'm fucked.
I wonder if it smells like burning hair afterwards?
Join the Slashcott! Feb 10 thru Feb 17!
My bud was a tanker in the Gulf War II invasion.
He said the Iraqi tanks had a rep for being (almost) more dangerous after they got hit with a sabot round and were surrounded by a cloud of vaporized DU than when they were functional and shooting back. He didn't bring back any trophies.
What the hell are you on about?
If I can't smoke and swear I'm fucked.
The taser is less than letheal, except for the few dozen people it has killed.
-William
God is everything science has yet to explain.
Nothing mechanical is ever perfect. The Tower of Terror ride killed somebody the other day as well, and its supposed to be for fun.
reflective metal sheet
I watch protests for the complete comedic value of the protestors. I wouldn't mind adding to the entertainment some tweaked out, hippie liberals getting fried with a microwave gun.
Every time I see one of those protests I wish that Bush were as evil as they would have me believe and that I could watch live as the evil CIA plants a bomb in the middle of them and blows them all to hell. I mean if Bush could orchestrate 9/11 surely he could wipe of some of those kooky liberals. I mean he is the Evil Monarch Bush right, who has absolute power and does not allow for dissent.
To bad its not true.
Remember that after the liberation, you can expect a few riots here and there. Some people just don't want to be free of oppression and subjugation, and are willing to fight the invaders^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hotherwise welcome liberators.
"No problem. I have the capacity to do infinite work so long as you don't mind that my quality approaches zero."-Dilbert
Couldn't you just get a large mirror and bounce the ray right back at the user?
Automatically share the housework in a fair way http://www.chorebuster.net/
Not to be blunt or insensitive, but have you a sense of humour?
Try, if you haven't, seeing "Return of the Living Dead" and some of the missing pieces will fall into place.
And, if you haven't yet, catch up on some wry/weird jarhead jargon and singalongs...
Previously: "Linux... Toward the Sunrise..." Now: "Linux... Toward the-- No, now, part of Every Sunrise"
"Anyone else think the world's going a bit mad?"
Nope. With all respect, most people think the US has gone mad.
All credible experts told them "Sure, you can win the war, but can you win the peace? We sure as hell don't think you can. Iraq and possibly the whole region will be a hotbed for all kinds of horrors for years to come".
To which we've gotten the "we don't really care" answer.
So, compared to that, microwaving protestors is really not that surprising.
I think, therefore I am...I think.
If the rioters wear metal-mesh "catchers masks" and the boys stuff their testicles into tomato-paste cans, they should be fine.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Comment removed based on user account deletion
This one sounds like a job for the Myth Busters. They will do anything. Recently they tried the "brown note", chinese water torture and some other potentially deadly tests.
To ALL the sanctimonious, diminutive, Limbaugh-and-700-Club-watching christian fucktards, who scream:
for more war, killing and death and against sex education,
for selfish corporate greed and against sharing,
for capital punishment and against women's choice,
for religious belief and against testable, observable facts,
for blathering opinions and against journalism,
for more social control and against freedom,
for building more nuclear warheads and against disarmament,
for more fear and against love and tenderness...
Thank you, fucktards and your fucktard overlords,
for giving us this country we have to share with you.
You've taken the only things that mattered:
a chance at peace and freedom.
Freely expressing your opinion is one thing. I do it every day and enjoy the freedom. Searching someone out to defame them, to slander them, and to verbally assault them is quite different...do it in your workplace and you should expect to be fired. Do it to your friends and you should expect to be lonely. Do it to the police and you should expect to be maced if you get out of line. Protesters often make the most critical errors in failing to place themselves in anyone else's shoes and in so doing, begin to take "liberties" with other peoples' rights to go about their business and not be acosted - verbally or otherwise. Match protesters up with Paparazzi for a day and see how the antagonistic "exercise of freedom" plays out.
Be the hit at any Iraqi riot -- bring your foil suit and fill your pockets with popcorn.
Homeland Security welcomes you to America -- center of the universe -- and especially microwave cooking!
Bring your friends, bring your relatives and a good supply of weenies to the party! (But don't stand too close together or you may become the next sunday brunch yourself!)
Only Americans could possibly consider it a valid method of dispersing a crowd using microwave radiation.
Of course -- it's much better to cook people alive than allow them to gather in a group that in any way resembles a 'protest' -- isn't it...
Coming soon to a gathering near YOU!
Go look up the early-90s congressional reports on the subject yourself.
Sorry, the fact that random people on the internet don't feel like dropping everything to go pore over google for links that have been posted a thousand times over already doesn't prove anything.
Less interesting than the amount of support we gave Saddam is the kind of support we gave saddam. We weren't so much selling him arms, though we did broker arms deals. What we were MOSTLY giving him was technological and tactical (espionage/information) support in his war against Iran. "Technological support", and this is the interesting part, included WMD precursors and manufacturing tools. There were single items and objects that were both on the list of things clearly documented as being sold to Hussein by the U.S. in 1985 and the list of things the U.N. weapons inspectors were trying to destroy in 1995.
If it makes you feel any better, I just metamodded them Unfair.
We're not disagreeing.
You're also reading an awful lot into what I said.
I like to think it won't happen here. By the same token, one has to wonder about any government that would allow for such a weapon to be created in the first place.
This signature has Super Cow Powers
ok ... so you say that what should have been done during the black rights campaign in america was to fry all of them? That putting them in severe pain while they fought for rights that should have been theirs all along was the right course of action?
Cause thats what you're suggesting we do in Iraq you f***ing dipshit!
Offtopic? You fail it.