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Review: Matrix: Reloaded
PsndCsrV writes:
Due to some fortunate circumstances, I was able to partake of the Matrix goodness ahead of the release. Overall, I thought the movie was excellent, but there were some issues (for me, at least) that kept it from being spectacular. It's definitely worth seeing, and if you're worried about it not being that good, go see a matinee screening and skip the popcorn. ;-) It is a blatant cliffhanger, though, so if that drives you nuts, you better just wait until November. Keep reading for a more in depth look, and I'll try not to let any spoilers slip.
The special effects were great. I personally didn't see anything totally revolutionary in them... it seems like most of it was simply "bullet time", but more refined, utilizing CG where cameras don't make it. Only a couple of times did I feel that the CG wasn't quite right, and even then it wasn't due to the impossibility of the action. It was mostly due to a character's arms/legs/hair/clothes that didn't move 100% naturally during a stunt, which is definitely difficult to get right. There was only a couple instances in 1 scene that come to mind immediately, so the effects people did an excellent job.
One of the main criticisms of the first Matrix was the lack of character development. Well, I won't lie to you... there's not a whole lot of character development in this one either. There was more, but not for any of the main characters really. A little more insight into Morpheus's life, a new take on the Oracle, the introduction of some new characters, and the whole thing going on with Agent Smith. But there are still a lot of gaps in the characters, but Reloaded does make you feel like you're starting to understand things better, and that the next movie will be very enlightening.
One of the best after-effects of the first Matrix was the way it made you question your own take on reality. It really made you wonder what's real, and what's not. What's important to me, and what's not. Or maybe I was just being overly philosophical about it. Reloaded really does a good job of leaving you questioning, but this time, you're speculating about the movie and where it will head... how things will be resolved. Reloaded ends with many loose ends, and many questions unanswered, but at the same time, it's an excellent opportunity to speculate. I definitely want to see Revolutions now, and it's a good thing I only have to wait 6 months.
The movie also flowed well. I didn't ever feel like a scene was put in "just because", except once. I personally felt that the love scene between Neo and Trinity was a little overboard, and that a lot more could have been said with a much more subtle approach. Intermixed with this, were shots of the people of Zion having a wild dance party/orgy. Ok, so the orgy was implied with the whole sexual nature of the dance scene. I couldn't help but relate it to Herbert's Fremen spice orgy in Dune, except without the spice. It struck me as the same type of situation.
To sum it up, I really enjoyed it. My only big complaint was the love scene, but I am a conservative person. Other people will undoubtedly love the movie just for that scene. The rest of the movies was great, and definitely sets up Revolutions as a must see.
I don't give a damn about the plot. I'm just going to see it for the computer generated graphics.
I didn't get philosophical about the first Matrix movie. But, I'm not a chick, so that makes sense.
Just saw MATRIX RELOADED on opening night. The theater was packed, despite multiple showings -- 10, 10:10, 10:30... The audience seemed to greatly enjoy the movie.
The action was as good as advertised. The actors acquited themselves well. As expected, CGI was greatly improved from the original, particularly for the "real world" shots.
BUT... the movie didn't make much sense -- it was kind of like USUAL SUSPECTS, but without the basis in reality on which to grab hold.
Go see it... but don't expect to understand it until you see the third one, too.
I enjoyed it
of this release is not having Revolutions waiting right there for you to see. They could have lined up 90% of the people from that theatre and herded us into the next theatre emtpying our wallets as we went.
;)
While the ending is not surprising it certainly leaves you wanting to see the rest of the story. I personally didn't notice any cg mistakes, but I usually don't until my second viewing of a film unless they are just glaring mistakes.
The main flaws with the movie are a slow start that really does little to develop the characters. If they wanted to break from the constant action for that purpose they didn't do the best job. I heard several people in the theatre complain about the somewhat technical dialog that takes place in the movie. That was no big deal to me as it all made perfect sense, but I could see how others might not like it or pick up on it. Then again I laughed out loud when I saw the terminal with ssh 10.2.2.2 on it
To keep it short, I think the idea with the Orgy/Dance scene is draw parallels between the sex of Neo and Trinity, and the overall Sexual (primal, hedonistic) nature of humans... and the fact that we are a product of this. In other words, evolution... a seething bastion of organic life living far underground, reproducing and fighting for existence. So in that respect it's a very important piece of the overall humans (organic life) against machines (in-organice life).
;)
Other than that, yeah the acting was a bit cheesy... but ALL the acting is a bit cheesy in the movie.
I personally felt that the love scene between Neo and Trinity was a little overboard
Overboard? How about totally fucking lame. The whole thing was shots of Keanu's arm-plugs spliced between shots of dirty hippies dancing. Gag me. The first hour of the movie was absolute rubbish.
We can neither love nor pity nor forgive. If you make a slip in handling us you die!
I just went and saw it. It's now 5:00am that I am getting back. Classes be damned.
Just saw it, and loved it.
Reloaded definitely has a different purpose from the original (we're not realizing for the first time that our world is a simulation), but quality-wise it was just as good. Zion looks a lot larger and more organized than I would have guessed, and we get to see some bad-ass robocop-style exoskeletons that will probably feature in Matrix Revolutions.
The Wachowski bros. could easily have made a crappy movie, but they pulled this sequel off well.
Be sure to stay past the end of the credits for an awesome preview for Revolutions!!!
"somewhat technical dialog that takes place in the movie"
I had no trouble with this personally.
BUT... my friend, who is a non-native English speaker, was totally lost at the end of the movie, as an important character (who won't be named to avoid spoilers) speaks in so much jargon and so quickly that he is virtually incomprehensible.
I walked out of the Matrix 2 today. After hyping myself up for what I thought was a plethora of bullet-time acrobatics and ass-kicking kung-fu, I instead walked in on a huge orgy in Zion. Sadly realizing that all the amazing things I had paid $10 to see were available in free previews on the net, I walked out. I was just unable to watch the Watchowski Brothers sell out like that. Very, very disappointing.
"Mass genocide is the most exhausting activity one can engage in, next to soccer."
I anticipated much hype about this new Mmatrix. I bought my ticket 3 days in advance just so I would make sure I could get in. I know recently the big block busters like X-men were sold out on the first day. I can't wait to see what this new Matrix has in store for us.
I think I'll need to see it about 5 times and talk to lots of others, before I get a hang of it.. good thing is, I don't need to care about my karma.
/.ers supposed to enjoy them?
Frankly, the only part which made any sense in the ntire movie was the love scene - aren't good
If you keep throwing chairs, one day you'll break windows....
was to be made to look like the slow and the sluggish...or so the w. bros had claimed..... has the movie lived up to this reputation???
... would love to watch it.. its 3d rendered instead of conventional anim...
I've seen a few of the animatrixes... the first one sucked.. second one onwards they got much better.....
Any1 seen the Flight of the Orisis?? Have been dying to see that.... it apparantly had been attached to dreamcatcher in the States
They are supposed to have released the game "Enter the Matrix" too in conjuction with the movie.....
|/________
|\A|ALYS|
Anyone know whether the rumours about this movie coming out on IMAX have any basis on reality?
If it has I'll wait thanx very much, especially with the reviews given here it doesn't sound like a must see, c/ept for the SFX which means don't wait to see it on TV - see it on the big screen.
He doesn't really use that much jargon, he is just scripted to speak in unnecessarily large words to make himself sound smart.
And he says "ergo" about twenty times.
We can neither love nor pity nor forgive. If you make a slip in handling us you die!
I just got back from a midnight showing, and I have to ask this. It may give things away. This is your warning! Don't read this! I am even stating guesses as to what the third movie is about, which may pre-spoil even that.
First question: how did Neo stop the Sentinels that came at him in the real world? He's a programmer, a normal human who has the ability to fly or move quickly only in the Matrix, where he can see everything as code. In the real world, he's pretty much a real wimp. Right? Is the movie going all magical on us? I don't think so.
More questions: how is it that the Architect said they had destroyed Zion many times? That doesn't match up with the first Matrix movie, where the history of Zion doesn't talk at all about being wiped out and rebuilding multiple times. What happened to all the people who died in Zion the first few times? Shouldn't the rebuilders have seen archaeology? Corpses? Something to hint that Zion existed for longer than 100 years? They can't "reset" Zion and start from scratch, it's the real world. You wipe out 250,000 people, they can't just grow back. And if others escaped from the Matrix and rebuilt Zion, why isn't that part of the history lesson we get in the Matrix part 1?
Final question: if the Architect is not lying when he says that computers have ruled for far longer than 100 years, then how come Zion doesn't reflect this? How come every Zion leader puts Zion's inception (or at least, the rule of the machines) at 100 years? How did they lose or "forget" the real history?
One more spoiler alert. I'm trying to provoke discussion, because I don't know if what I'm about to suggest is right, but it may give stuff away. Stop reading if you haven't seen it!
The answer to all these questions is another question: how do you handle the one-tenth of one percent of humans who don't "buy" the Matrix? How do you keep them from unplugging everyone and everything? You give that .1% something to do. You create a second Matrix for them to "escape" to. You keep them busy freeing people from one Matrix to another. When Zion falls, you reset and wait for the .1% to need a distraction again. You let the war play out with Neo 1, Neo 2, Neo 3, Neo 4, Neo 5, and Neo 6. Over and over again. So that the computers have now ruled hundreds of years. So that when Neo finally understands that the "real" world is just as unreal as the Matrix, he is able to stop the Sentinels with a wave of his hand.
What's the truth? I fear I have this all wrong, but it sure explains damn near everything.
My Greasemonkey scripts for Digg &
I think the accent made that much worse than it should have been.
It had more manic fight scenes. It developed the philosophy a bit more. I could see the Buddhist themes coming out a bit more: e.g. by the end of the third movie, the machines & the humans are both freed.
Apparently you havn't read the last story about the perfect box office hit formula - you have to have sex scenes.
Which, I digress, is silly. How many movies can we name that would have been better without the sex? sigh... I am getting to a point that I think they knows this, and they don't want to change their formula - so what happens is usually that when I sense a stupid sex-scene coming, I take the opportunity for a bathroom break.
My life in the land of the rising sun.
Before flaming me, please note that this is the title of the review of the movie by David Edelstein, in Slate -- and not my own words. Here is a short quote: "The grim news is that The Matrix Reloaded is as messy and flat-footed as its predecessor is nimble and shapely. It's an ugly, bloated, repetitive movie that builds to a punch line that should have come an hour earlier (at least). Then it ends as it's just beginning: Stay tuned for The Matrix Revolutions, coming in November to 8,000 theaters near you." Please read the full review before replying.
im a bit worried that Reloaded has scenes that are confusing/lame/unnecessary. Im worried that this might be due to the game "Enter the Matrix". Ive read that more of the story is revealed in the game and that the two should really be done. Am I paranoid? Do I need to play the game to really enjoy all of the movie?
Im currently boycotting (almost all) music/video games/movies so would rather not buy the game if at all possible. But might have to purchase this game if necessary to fully appreciate the movie. Hope someone can clear up whether the movie and the game are inseparable.
thanks
epicstruggle
"Im drowning here, and you're describing the water!"
Remember the 1000px trailer a while back on /.? anyway, in the scene where all the Agent Smith(es) bum-rush Neo, you can see (frame-step helps) some Smith stuck their whole hands into other Smith's backs - and this happened on several occasions.
No it was not easy to spot, but it is *possible*. Anyhow I am not saying it ruins the experience in any way, but for 100 million dollars on special effects along, I'd figure that they checked for stuff like that.
My life in the land of the rising sun.
While I enjoyed the movie and thought it pretty good overall, I was honestly a bit disappointed. Half the crowd clapped when the lights dimmed, everyone clapped at a few scene resolutions... but no one clapped at the end.
I agree with the statement in the review about the sex scene; waaay too long. There were also a number of [fight] scenes where it was pretty obvious the characters were computer generated. Those scenes, eventhough slightly disappointing to see, were definitely acceptable to me, though.
The Twins didn't get nearly enough screen time.
I think the best part, though, was the discussions my friends and I had after the movie. They weren't entirely exclusive to this movie, however.
Birth in the Matrix? Is it the humans' decision to have the baby, which is then created by the machines in the real world? Or is it the other way around; do the machines create the infant and then program it's birth into the Matrix?
People in the Matrix look like they do in the real world. If you've been hooked up to the Matrix your entire life, how do you know what you look like? Outside input from the machines?
Decoding the Matrix code. It's too difficult for a computer, but a human can do it on the fly?
Did Neo really have a choice when he accepted the piece of candy from the Oracle? If she had known he wouldn't have accepted it, she wouldn't have offered it in the first place.
In the end, it wasn't what I had hoped it would be, but it wasn't even bad.
There were parts of the movie I need to see a few more times before I can fully grasp what was being said, or what happened. Not because it was poor dialog, but because there were so many thoughts in my mind that were spawned from the original statement(s) or event(s) that I need to go back and compare some of them to what was actually said or happened.
My opinion: Go see it, but don't expect the entire movie to blow you away. There are some really great parts, and some really ho-hum parts.
People will pass up steak once a week, for crap every day.
This just in from the nmap mailing list..
Hi Everyone. There is a disturbance in the force! You may recall a
couple weeks ago that MS started recommending Nmap on some of their
web pages. That was strange, but I did not foresee the anomalous omens
that would ensue.
Like almost any self-respecting geek, I bought tickets to 'Matrix:
Reloaded' several weeks back (no spoilers, I promise). After all, who
can resist the combination of philosophical mind games and Trinity
(Carrie-Anne Moss) in that tight leather bodysuit?
So after waiting an hour in a line snaking out of the theatre to the
parking lot, I finally got in to my 10pm Wednesday showing. All was
going well until Trinity needed to do some hacking. Oh, no! I was
sure we'd see a silly "Hackers"-esque 3D animated "hacking scene".
Not so! Trinity is as smart as she is seductive! She whips out
Nmap (!!!), scans her target, finds 22/tcp open, and proceeds with an
über ssh technique! I was so surprised, I almost jumped out of my
seat and did the "r00t dance" right there in the theatre!
There can be only one explanation: Carie-Anne has the hots for me!
Now your mission, should you choose to accept it, is to secure a
screen-shot of that few-second episode! Not only is it important for
the coolness factor, but we can learn how Nmap looks in the future by
studying that output! So perhaps some of you gray hats in the
audience have a quality DivX/MPG of the movie already? Let me know if
you do (but no 2GB email attachments please!) Or perhaps someone
could sneak a quiet flashless digital camera into the theatre and take
a shot. But you must react quickly as it is literally only up for a
few seconds (Nmap is actually fast in the future). Do this, and you
will prove that you are truly "the one"! I'll also put your name and
a thumbnail on the front page of Insecure.Org if you send in the best
shot.
In other news, a few people have inquired about further survey
results. Sorry I have been so slow, but things have been very busy.
I'm pretty sure I'll be able to send more by next week. I hope to
have a couple other announcements ready for next week as well!
Keep it real,
Fyodor
Spoilers continue, of course...
I agree. I realized that the world where Zion lives isn't real as soon as Agent Smith downloaded himself to it at the beginning.
Which means that the entire war between the men and the machines, the humans as batteries stuff, *all* the backstory set up in the first movie, may be fake. All of it. There may be another real story we're going to find out in the last one.
The thing I found most interesting was learning how the Oracle works. She simulates humans to 99.9%+ accuracy. The entire system is set up to simulate humans, to make available the choices that they are expected to make. Neo is The One because he doesn't make the expected choices. He doesn't choose to simply believe in reaity. Zion is a place for those who don't exactly fit prediction to have a place to "escape" to. Neo's real breakthrough is that he's going to escape Zion.
The interesting thing about all this is that the Oracle decides what she wants you to do, and says what needs to be said to get you to do it, based upon her simulation. No point to this observation, I just thought it was interesting.
CGI. sex. CGI. more CGI. sex with CGI. CGI. sex in CGI... you get the pattern. :)
Unfortunately, both of the above sell well... hence the showing was sold out.
I have to admit that the fight scenes were really cool on bay area's biggest screen, though
*PARTIAL SPOILER WARNING*
If you ask me, the only reasonable explanation for the (somewhat predictable) ending is that the matrix is indeed a simulation WITHIN another simulation, and those that reject the simulated simulation live happily in the REAL simulation.
Did you know that "FTW" ("for the win") is a direct translation of "Sieg Heil"?
I stood in line for 3hr to get good seats for the first showing (read a Java book in the time). Lets just say Reloaded was /much/ overrated.
The graphics okay and all, but it isn't anything ultra-cool like the first brought (except for the completely CG fight scenes..). There are a few blatantly noticable errors also- the biggest imho being the lack of a driver in the car the agent smashes up (it's in the trailer too).
The storyline is kinda blah, and it ends rather abruptly almost like they couldn't find a place to end it.
This one is a lot more sex oriented too- within the first 30min there are at least 3 scenes of it.
Also this one is plagued by the "funny black guy" syndrom that for some reason is popular in movies for comic relief.
That was my take on the movie at least.. sure I'll get modded to hell for saying bad things about the matrix.
In response to #1, he is clearly still in the matrix, and that is why he is in a coma, he figured it out, so the archatect had to "disable" him for his plans to carry out... his plans are definitly not what he/she/it said them to be.
In response to #2, I think the archetect lied, He wanted to scare/convince neo to do what he wanted him to do. It would be awful hard to "erase" Zion and rebuild, or the people are convinced it is their duty, or something along those lines. You would have to free a lot of people from the matrix to go from 12 to 250,000 in just 100 years, but see #3.
In response to #3, I think it would be easy to loose track of time underground, but it does make you wonder. Where did Zion all come from? Did the ships suddenly appear as being relics from a time long gone or what?!? It could be that the oracle/mother program provided many things for the people of Zion, that could very well make sense, Morpheus did mention something about being tought the truth and etc.
In response to #4, you let them not believe, you let them unplug, you try to stop them with "agents". I don't think you would create a second matrix, but eventually, you would lock them in a fake reality (see #1)
that when I go to see the film, the people at the cinema will tell me I can't, cos.... There Is No Film.....
RoseColor red={0, 0xffff, 0x0000, 0x0000};VioletColour blue={0, 0x0000, 0x0000, 0xffff};find / -name *mybase*|chown you
I think you have it close to right. The "real world" is either just more of the simulation or Neo is god, of course that doesn't explain him not recovering after stopping the sentinals so the first part is most likely correct. Of course it appears that all of the Neos reacted differantly and the architect noted that this, the sixth, neo responded more quickly than any of the others. It is possible that this is the first One that will actually break outside into the real real world.
The following is a major plot spoiler:
About halfway through the movie, it is revealed that spoons *do* exist. (Halfway would be defined as the part that's after the sex, but before the violence).
Overall, this movie is entertaining. It's got lots of eye candy, and it's worth a few good laughs--watching Trinity use "ssh 10.2.2.2 -l root" had the theatre chuckling in their seats.
Obviously, this is to be explained in the next Matrix movie. Another explanation, what if this 'real world' is not real?
how is it that the Architect said they had destroyed Zion many times?
This probably ties into the Buddhist philosophy of reincarnation. Each reincarnate i.e. Zion has no memory (physical or metaphysical) of its past. Who is to say the destruction of Zion was not complete, that is no trace of physical evidence?
How did they lose or "forget" the real history?
See above.
So after purchasing tickets weeks in advance, waiting 3 hours in line, myself and two other friends just walked out of the advanced screening of Matrix 2, in utter disgust. After a flashy introduction of what we had come to see (stunning gunfights in bullet time and brilliant martial arts) the film turns into a huge primal orgy in Zion. Granted we were expecting the film to expand on Neo and Trinity's romantic affairs, but did we really need to be exposed to Keano Reeves and Carrie Moss having sex? I feel that in this sequel the Watchowski Brothers abandoned all of the philosophical values that Neo personified in the original Matrix. I therefore ask slashdot: are we alone on this opinion?
Fight or flight its all the same
Live to die another day
--Ryan
In my opinion, the orgy/dance scene was reminiscient of the opening dance scene from "Blade", only longer and less effective. I wish they had cut this sequence down, as I felt it was unnecessary....
;)
Overall though, a decent sequel with some nice CG treats.
If you've taken a philosophy class, you'd have recognized the Matrix as a new incarnation of Plato's allegory of the cave from The Republic, later expressed as "The Evil Deceiver" by Descartes and later still as the "brain in a vat" scenario by Hilary Putnam.
In the sequel, the filmmakers move on to questions of free will vs. determinism vs. fate. These issues were also nicely articulated in one of the segments of the animated Art Linklater film "The Waking Life", for anyone who's interested.
So it was cool to have a new philosophical issue raised. To "What is the nature of reality... and is it all a sham?" has been added "What is the nature of choice... and is it all a sham?"
Plus, the freeway chase scene was incredible
W
-------------------
This is my SIG. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
First off, I thought the first Matrix movie was great. The most flawless action movie I have ever seen. It blew me away when I first saw it. Every scene was executed well. I enjoy the many levels it can be viewed on--philosophy, religious, or just plain fun--but I don't geek out about it and dress up in a trench coat and sunglasses like one guy did tonight at my theater. The pacing of the movie was perfect and kept driving you to the ultimate realization at the end, which left you waiting to see what happens in the sequel. Many people, including myself, have been waiting since 1999 for this.
To summarize: it was worth the wait. Read on...
Now, I'll start with a pure, non-spoiler review...a review everyone can read with no fear of ruining the story. Unfortunately, it's difficult not to go into details, so I must be vague. The spoiler commentary will be great for you people who have seen the movie and are craving dissection of it as I am and need a catalyst.
The Matrix Reloaded is not entirely what you expect it to be. I read many of the reviews you all have read before I saw the movie tonight. I had my expectations severely lowered because of them, hoping for at least some incredible action sequences. What I realized upon watching is that the tone of this movie is different and aiming for something quite unexpected. It's as though it knows what it did in the first movie and has decided to run with that to fuck with your head. It's a mindjob. It will challenge the assumptions you walked away with from the first movie, and not in the ways you probably have guessed with your friends in an attempt to figure out what twists might be laying ahead in these sequels. There is always the impression something is being kept in store, some big secret twist that will suddenly explain everything.
NON-NEGATIVE STUFF: The action was good. Neo behaves like the One, in that fighting seems incredibly simple to him, almost effortless and second nature, which is good in that we get some incredible choreography. This does seem to render Neo's fight scenes a bit more hollow as there is no character outcome to them as there was in the previous movie (i.e., realization of one's powers, kicking Agent Smith's pompous ass, etc.), but that is made up for in the sheer over-the-top choreography. Also, the CG of the "burly brawl" is in no way as bad as it is being made out to be. Remember when Neo was dodging bullets in the first movie, and you knew it was him, but there was something a bit "off" about the way it looked? That is the effect of these parts. I imagine anyone performing these feats would look unreal to your eyes. The freeway chase scene is as exciting as you're hearing.
This is the kind of movie that leaves you wanting to immediately watch the rest of the story in Revolutions. It is abundantly clear that it is simply part one and does not stand on its own as efficiently (more on that in the spoiler section...a lot is purposely unloaded on you in the last part of the movie and you are left flabbergasted). But because you can't have that until November, you simply want to watch Reloaded again to properly digest it all. This is the kind of movie you spend the rest of the week discussing with your fellow geeks to figure out. Let me tell you, there is much to figure out.
The fight scene music was surprisingly good. Not as pulse-pounding as the first movie's, but more of a techno-epic quality that was refreshing, especially Neo's fight scenes.
This movie is clearly not a rehash of the first one, tone-wise or story-wise. It builds and changes and isn't afraid to veer off somewhere way different. That's a good way to describe it--there are clearly things that are being led up to. A conclusion you don't yet get to see. That is why you get these reviews with people saying the movie was much better on a second viewing, because you're given a taste of what's to come and of what everything else might have meant in retrospect. Dare I call it a puzzle movie?
"Sufferin' succotash."
A couple of questions myself.
SPOILER SPOLIER SPOLIER
Allright here's how we figured this...
how did Neo stop the Sentinels that came at him in the real world?
Simple answer - he is STILL INSIDE THE MATRIX as you said!. All of Zion is in the matrix, everything we've seen is still inside the matrix. Read My Comments on this I won't bother repeating them here. This also answers pretty much the rest of your questions. There is no Zion! It's all fake, a construct to manipulate that 1% of the population who can't accept the matrix (like the architect said).
It makes sense after all, hell I believe (as the previous comment expands on) that Neo is STILL following the course the machines laid out for him. They can create anything they want, why not have layers within layers. I totally agree with you on this... very much so.
Also remember the first movie they said "The One" awoke the first of them from the Matrix and prophesized his return JUST as Neo was supposed to do. Go through the door, select 30 or so people from the Matrix and have them rebuild Zion and prophesize his return.
Heck, it even makes sense that they can't see the sky because of the clouds and the 'solar power' thingy. If they can't see the sky they can't calculate the positions of the stars. If they can't do that they cannot really tell what time or year it is! Absolutely brilliant!
I think 'revolutions' is when Neo finally discovers that there is something outside the matrix within matrix and the *real* reason they keep humans around. Why design all this complexity and all this effort to keeping humans CONSCIOUS? Remember if they real really just wanted humans as batteries why not just use russian sleep - 3 electrodes on the head, send a current through em and you never ever wake up.
I've long thought that the machines actually have a deep seated command to do no harm to humans and are simply trying to work their way around it. It even makes sense because it is apparent that people can be reborn multiple times as evidenced by Neo. Nobody dies the whole darn ball of wax just resets itself every few hundred years. Or it could be the machines just want something to do, i.e. design and run the Matrix. Shrug, who knows?
I actually think this one could end like 1984 with Neo, and everybody else, simply being reset. Which would be very depressing yet... real. and good.
This movie has so many gratuitous CG scenes i.e. the 10 minute ship docking scene that does nothing to advance the story it made me think I am watching Star Wars II (the addition of a monotonous council did not help).
OK I didn't Read the parent post on the basis of the warning, Thank you "Anthony Boyd"
....
....It's an Idea...I think Its a good Idea... somebody with time and ability should do it
but this brings forth a question....
could we not have a moderation type for Spoiler?
you could make it a +1 mod
and if people wanted to discuss Spoilers they leave it as is
if they don't want to they can set there custom mod to -5 for Spoiler....
any way
--meh--
Actually I believe the Oracle works because she *has lived through the entire thing before!*
Yeah there is definately another world here and alot of stuff is going on. The entire thing, this entire story line, is probably made up. Hell for all we know it could be aliens or Amazon women from the moon controlling humanity. I can SO not wait for the next movie.
In responce to number one, I think the most likely reason that he is able to disable the sentinels in the 'real world' is that upon entering the mainframe, he created a program copy of himself that has some control over the machines. A sort of duality. I think that the possiblity that they are still in the matrix would be too contrived and predictable.
Warner Brothers would also like to thank Armani, Rayban, and Samsung for their generous support in outfitting the cast.
For those of you who have seen the movie you know I am not making this up. I am surprised I did not see a Taco Bell inside Zion.
Spoiler Spoiler Spoiler
Spoilet Spoilet Spoiler
If the Oracle can intuit what everyone is going to do (including Neo), then perhaps she passed on this information to the Architect. He in turn could create another level of virtual reality for Neo to enter. So everything after Neo makes his choice could in fact be another Matrix. I think this is unlikely, as it makes revolutions somewhat pointless. Yet it would explain the sentinels being stopped.
End Spoiler
End Spoiler
http://www.santacruzbynight.com/index.shtml Santa Cruz By Night Vampire Larp
Yes I saw it 12 days before you guys did...
Wrote this Friday night in a hurry. I know much of it has holes in it, but go for and ask any questions you have. I just want to say that I do not care if you believe me or not, just take a printed copy of this post with you to the movie and see how right (or wrong I am). =) Enjoy...
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I just wrote this up real quickly since we got back from the movie just now. BTW, I don't care if you believe me or not. Just bookmark the post and come back in 13 days and see how right it is. I wanted to thank Warner Bros. for the sneak preview. Also to MTV for taping us for "MTV's Movie House". Watch this Thursday night and look for the guy with the Audi shirt on. =) Also, excuse the grammer/spelling/etc. errors. I wrote this in 5 minutes so i wouldn't forget everything. Ask me if you want anything filled in. =)
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Just went to Matrix Reloaded. Good movie.
It opens with Trinity attacking a yet unknown location. All of a sudden, she jumps off the building (this is shown is the trailer) and is being pursued by an Agent. She gets shot. Neo wakes up and realizes it was a dream. He gets out of bed (Trinity is with him) and goes into the other room. They try to talk but he says nothing. Cut to next scene of Morpheous and other captains talking inside the Matrix. Interestingly, we learn that Morpheous is not really a big shot leader but rather just another peon in the world of Zion/Matrix who does not have the support of his fellow captains. There is a knock at the door. It is Agent Smith with something for Neo. It is his ear piece since he is no longer a part of the matrix but rather a lose program.
Agent Smith pulls up in a black Audi A8 (didn't see the rims so it might have been an S8--I'm an Audi nut =). Anyway, Agent Smith comes to the door and knocks on it hard. It is one of those metal doors with a sliding eye piece. The eye piece opens and then one of the two people (don't know exactly who they are, but they are freed people) and they get the envelope from Agent Smith. They call Neo up and give him the envelope which has the earpiece in it. The next knock from the door ha everyone assuming its Agent Smith, but its not. Its the other Agent (can't remember the name, either Thompson or Johnson) who are on the other side. Neo tells the others to scram and the fight starts. Apparently the Agents (2 or more, can't remember now) block Neo's bunch and Neo says "upgraded units". Fight continues. No idea where Agent Smith went. Fight scene ensues with real Agents who have found the location.
There is an arugment and the ship pulls into Zion. Machines are boring down we learn. Learn the commanders woman used to be morpheous woman who is a captain.
Morpheous speaks to people. Big party/orgy scene. Trinity and Neo have sex. Afterwards, the counselor talks to Neo.
Cut to scene of the glowing asian guy protecting the Oracle. They have a fight scene on the table. The asian guy is another one of these lose programs in the matrix.
Oracle talks to Neo about choices (more specifically about his choice to possibly let Trinity die--you should recall the first scene in the movie) and tells him about the Keymaker and "the source".
She leaves. Agents come. Agent Smith multiplies and a huge playground fight starts (shown in trailer). Agent smith is replicating himself somehow but putting his hand inside any person in the matrix and taking them over. He tries with Neo, but can't do it. Neo then leaves but flying (superman style) after the fight.
They go to find the keymaker at the French-wannabe information seller (The Merovingian) who is also a Matrix programmer. See Monica Belluchi as his wife (Persephone). For those who are kinky, The Merovingian programs this piece of cake to cause on of the people in his party to have an orgasmic experience. What is funny is the way they switch to the matrix style screen and up between her legs and show an explosin in that special area. =)
So the Merovingian tur
SPOILER
Yup. Lots of people won't buy into the Matrix; give them a prophecy, to give them the purpose of waiting for The One.
I'd just like to mutter about the Black Iron Prison, or that the Empire Never Died, but no one would get that, would they?
Disobedience was rampant, although Morpheus was kind of hung up on his own authority at points, wasn't he?
I need to go read The Invisibles again.
Although I must say that when I saw your posts over the last two weeks with this, I'd have to say you were being a troll. Now that I have seen the movie, I know that you were telling the truth.
I am intrigued by the oblique references by the Oracle to a need for balance and cooperation between humans and machines. Why are the machines so bad? They don't really mistreat the humans, at least no more than humans mistreat each other. Informed cooperation between man and machine could lead to a new golden age. Basicly, cyborgs are the future. The Matrix is an extropian system, so let us post-humanize our asses on up the metaphysical ladder. I think the matrix within The Matrix idea is relatively certain, though it didn't jump out at me immediately. But, what point, conjecture? I eagerly await the next installment. I was enticed. I'll gladly pony up the bucks for a franchise that keeps me engaged. -mattzog
-mattzog http://www.micromatic.org/
!!!!SPOILER warning.......!!
...(oracle))
!!!!SPOILER warning.......!!
the scene where neo was able to stop the sentinel machines.... here's my reasoning
(anyway neo pants and faints - probably showing signs just like the original matrix of him not being ready and "maybe waiting for something"
perhaps, the world is made up of several layers of matricies. the 'real world' as shown in zion is probably another matrix level, since neo was able to control the sentinel machines. the constant comments about 'failsafe' mentioned throughout the movie is one of the biggest hints.
i'm thinking this has to do with the big bang theory that the world started off with one entity (1 matrix). each revision of the matrix is really adding new layers of improvement of matrix, ie, the layers of the matricies are also expanding. (you also see this near the opening 'credits' where they zoom out the code and it looks like as if it's part of a small galaxy.... and also the part where morpheus says "goodnight zion" looking at zion's lights where everything looks like stars filling a night's sky)
so this may have to do with the notion that humans always will continue to fight for freedom (freeing themselves one level highter) while the world will always continue to "expand". (extension of the big bang theory also says the world may eventually collaspe back to it's original exploding source - the end of the world.)
the constant perfecting of the matrix talked by the architect -- 6 previous versions - may have to do with genesis (bible) that the world was created in 6 days... each day being a step towards creating the world that we believe that we are living in today.
lawrence fishburn said in an interview ones that in the 1st movie, morpheus is a leader (or something like that), 2nd movie: general, and 3rd movie: man. maybe he's "unplugged" and reborn in the "REAL-REAL" world? or is that just realizing that the prophecy is just bullshit...?
my blog
...is what were the programs used... Maya... renderman...? And of course what the renderfarm hardware was...etc... anybody?
||| I still can't believe Parkay's not butter.
"My only big complaint was the love scene, but I am a conservative person."
At least one good thing, American conservatism offers them is the lesser lame excuse as being c, when asked about their lack of sexual intercourse.
Though I think the bullet time was part of what made it suck. They used that shit in every goddamn fight scene, of which there were at least a dozen, nearly all of them the same. It goes from "neat special effect" to "okay, we know you can fucking do that effect, now show something else already."
So it ended up basically being one of those plotless martial arts movies, only Keanu Reaves can't do wire-fu worth a damn. Go watch a Jackie Chan movie or something instead.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
So the preview is released now or what? Great!
/me fires up edonkey
aw... come on people... of course he's still in some sort of a contrived world... haven't we all seen The 13th Floor??? We should know by now that this is how it's done. Title character discovers he's in fake world... title character escapes into real world... title character discovers real world is also fake.
The real question (that's actually already, kinda, been asked) is why do the machines keep the people around? They're "willing to accept" a lesser amount of readily available power... The whole movie speaks in terms of people's "destiny." Even some of the software has "a purpose" (read: Agent Smith's rebirth and transformation).
I'm just waiting for the end of Revelations to reveal that they're all just inside a big machine and they all think they're real (the machines aren't really real either). It just turns out that they're all just a part of a big war games scenario that the government is running.
- Jeremy
P.S. I don't really think what I wrote in that last paragraph... just another point of discussion.
Jeremy Logan's Website.
The pseudo-mathematical shit with the 'architect' was horrible. It reminded me of the movie The Net's attempt to use techno-jargon.
They also never explained why all fighting between programs is done with wire-fu, rather than through more powerful techniques such as "instantly make your head explode."
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
I think a stunning support for the 'real world' being fake is that the Oracle, a computer program in the Matrix, knows Neo was having dreams and knew what the dreams were of.'
In an even stranger aspect, that would mean the programs MADE Neo dream those dreams...
What I'm hoping to figure out is, how come in the ages preceding Neo's life black people have been breeding really fast, asians really slowly, and indians/pakistanis/arabs not at all. Has there been some sinister eugenics programme at work?
I think we should be told.
Whence? Hence. Whither? Thither.
more tits = more cash
You did notice none of this organic life happened to be unfit or over 25 didn't you?
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
I can save myself a lot of effort by just pointing people to that review instead of rewriting basically the same points myself.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Why is it that whenever someone goes "DONT READ THIS" i just won't stop reading. I won't see this one in the theaters maybe the next one...
You don't have to convince anyone of anything -- to refer to the first movie, it's like a "glitch" in the system -- they simply reprogram reality, and everyone is just "in" the new reality. No one goes to 250,000 people and convinces them to be reset -- those are humans, dumbly accepting whatever is programmed into their heads. They just get new programming and continue on. And they don't really have to "rebuild" Zion, instead Zion just resets to its default state, and humans discover/build it out all over again, never knowing what went before, because the data -- their memories -- are simply wiped clean or altered. The 20th century begins all over again, and Zion "waits" to be used for the "first" time.
No, in the first movie they made it clear that those people are not all escaped from the Matrix. They are the last remaining free humans -- humans without jacks, humans who fled en masse from the machines before ever being plugged into the Matrix. And they've fled, and refled, and rerefled, as the system resets every 100 or 200 years.
My Greasemonkey scripts for Digg &
> I just got back from a midnight showing,
:)
> and I have to ask this. It may give things away.
I realize that this is slashdot, but how stupid do you think people are?
I found this statement particularly interesting, since the time here as I am writing this is about 2241. In New Zealand - GMT+12
Now, if you consider that the highest offset from GMT is +13 - NZ daylight time, and even THAT wouldn't put the time past midnight, when you claim to have gone to the movies.
Of course, I suppose you could have "just gotten back" from a midnight screening yesterday, but flaming is more fun than reason.
But, the timeline is 100 years, and zion restarts from 7 males, 7 females... Didn't you pay attention?
Actually, even better than writing a lame flame with some know-it-all comment at the end, is realizing just how completely and utterly fucking retarded you actually are. ....there are negative GMT offsets as well.... lol... at least I didn't have the guts to post as a real user :)
About Zion being rebuilt many times without evidence: boy there sure are a lot of tunnels underground, and the machines did of course have to tunnel their way through to zion. The architect mentioned that zion had been destroyed multiple times, and each time this had been done more efficiently. Thus many tunnels would have been created.
If you watch carefully, as the sentinels are flying around, they are flying through a large empty cylindrical cavern with the same crossing walkways as zion had. If that's not the ruins of a previous zion, I dunno what is.
Er, the movie doesn't specifically state that the sentinels are not attacking zion itself when they fly through the "ruins" of another zion. But it also doesn't explicitly state that zion is under attack, something I'm sure they would have mentioned.
Anyhow, yes I think zion has been destroyed and rebuilt 5 times before.. unless of course the "real" world is also an illusion.
Oh one more thing about the reviews: Neo is not a Christ-like figure. He's a Buddha-like figure. The whole point is that Neo should come to understand "why" things happen, that he uses the meta-knowledge from past matrices to reach enlightenment. The children that make offerings to him dress awfully similar to Buddhist monks, although that made things a little to obvious to me.
About 12 people reproducing into 250,000 people so quickly: yes this is possible. if each woman produced as many children as could be done healthily, say 10, you could do it in 4 new generations:
7 women * 10 children = 70 new ppl.
70 * 0.5 (50% girls) * 10 children = 350 new ppl.
350 *0.5 *10 = +1750 ppl.
8750 *0.5*10 = +43750 ppl.
218750 *0.5*10 = +218750 ppl.
12 + 70 + 350 + 1750 + 43750 + 218750
= 273,420 ppl.
Figure the early generation eventually dies off, and some other die off as well, you could get close to 250k easily in 100 years.
Assuming the first 12 are near child-bearing age when they start, and the bulk of the ppl get the reproducing done around age 25, 25*4 = 100 years.
The gratuitous orgy scene was put in there on purpose. They're reproducing as if their survival of the species depended on it.
No one has ever fired for blaming Microsoft.
And to boot, at least in Rhode Island, all the theatres were showing it at 10pm, instead of midnight. Another 2 hours earlier than that.
OK. I'll throw out another theory I have, but this one is based only upon a kiss, and a single comment from the Architect. He notes that this Neo, unlike his predecessors, experienced something "specific" (love for Trinity) when asked to choose between the two doors. My suggestion is that perhaps the Architect is the only real human in the entire story, driving a world of AI, pushing each program closer and closer to true human emotion. Which brings me to the kiss, when Neo is pressed into kissing Miss Latex, and she insists that he kiss her as he does Trinity. If Miss Latex is also a human in this world, she may have been testing Neo, to see if he kissed like every other bit of AI, or if his kiss finally had some human passion behind it. Neo may be the evolution of AI to the point of humanity, and Neo may be the first program to become human.
And that, of course, would mean that humans have been pulling the strings all along -- manufacturing entire worlds, creating programs that could create subprograms, reproducing every nuance of Earth for these bits of code to evolve within. It would make for a fair twist. But it doesn't feel as plausible.
My Greasemonkey scripts for Digg &
In the first Matrix, the fight scenes seemed to have a point. Here it seems like you could've taken most them out without any loss of continuity (with the exception of two or so). There simply wasn't anything that happened. Like in the first scene fighting lots of Smiths where he flies away at the end, why the hell didn't he fly away five minutes earlier?
I distracted greatly from the movie IMO, because something like 60-70% of the total screen time was taken up by mostly pointless fights that after a while didn't even look all that cool.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Country: [Private IP]
NOTE: More information appears to be available at IANA-ARIN.
Using cached answer (or, you can get fresh results).
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I wonder what these special purposes might be.
What's interesting is that people will listen to the Oracle. I thought this was a central point of Reloaded. Neo didn't know, or didn't really care about why he was doing everything. He expected to go to the Oracle, ask her what to do, and get the easy way out. This is how people are wired - we look for leadership, for someone else to tell us what to do.
The machines were counting on this, and it worked all the way up to Neo finding his way to the Source. But after he talked to the Architect, he did something unexpected - he went back to the Matrix instead of choosing to start a new Zion as the previous Neos had done. He didn't do what the Architect suggested because he had Trinity, a variable that the machines weren't expecting and was a particular variation in this instance of the anomaly. Realize that by choosing to go back to the Matrix, Neo's essentially damned the Resistance to war or death since it won't be started again if the Sentinels can destroy Zion this time around.
Then again, it seems like the machines need Zion to exist in order to catch that 1% of humans who won't accept the Matrix. So perhaps it doesn't matter what Neo does. Hmm... 1984 ending anyone?
... one of the enemy spies? Oh damn... I ruined it for ya!
LOL
Methinks these layered Matrices that resemble an onion skin could be more of a kind of security system.
Overly philosophically speaking, it may be, that the machines have no possibility to really innovate. (Which is why they just copied the 20th century for the "inner" matrix...) It could be, that because they have no soul, they are unable to get ahead their creators, the humans. (Slightly shown by Morpheus, who told Neo, that he could beat them all because they are restricted by fundamental physics.)
So if the machines have no real chance of keeping the humans captured, IF these humans really want to escape. (Fitting in to the notion of the film, that everything is possible if we believe in it) the layers of the matrix are like a rendundant system. The humans can break out of every matrix if they just try hard enough, so it is only logical to implement a kind of fall-back-option for this 1% escapists. The "next" matrix seems like the real world to those and so you break their will to escape further, just because they think they've already done so. It gives you some time to catch these before they find out the "real" depth of the "rabbit hole".
If each matrix catches 99% of the population, you only need x matrices to catch all and to reduce escape probabilities to near-zero. Plus, it adds the ability to bend the outer matrices in case of an emergency or updates without touching the inner ones much like the layer models of our computer models. (Think of OSI-layers)
This was thought before in one of the famous StarTrek - Next Generation episodes called "Ship in a bottle" where the Enterprise crew creates a virtual Enterprise with a virtual holodeck within another virtual holodeck of another virtual Enterprise (all within the "real" holodeck of course) to fool Moriarty.
And it was reality some centuries ago when cities and castles were surrounded by walls. The biggest ones had multiple walls around them, one to slow attackers down and one to kill the slowed invaders down one by one. Rich castles had then multiple "walled cells" of space within the inner wall, so any attacker had to breach wall after wall to get to the kings chamber or water reservoir. If they did not forget to close the "Kerkaporta", they'd be safe...
http://www.samsungtelecom.com/matrix/ :-)
Hey! You're right! Wasn't Taco Bell the only restaurant left after the fast food wars...oh, wait a second...wrong dystopian future.
There is something kind of lame about the new matrix movie. It's actually a little embarrassing to watch.
I'm sure script kiddies and leet hax0rz and pseudo intellectual wannabe philosophizers will just LOVE it.
It's basically just a big masterbatorial kung-fu movie dedicated to making dorky script kiddies feel cool.
So basically if you are a l33t d00d who wears a long trench coat and lives by the motto "hack the world" (i.e. big poser) then are just gonna TOTALLY dig this movie.
Everyone else will probably squirm uncomfortably for 2 hours watching cheesy shit meant to excite goth losers and then say that they thought it was pretty good while masking the disappointment.
Actually I believe it was 16 females and 7 males. . .
:)
Didn't *you* pay attention?
But during the first movie, we are actually challenged along with the characters in a near-real world where nearly-real bullets can mess up a good day.
At the very end of the first movie, Neo gets his super-powers. At that point, the first movie started getting uninteresting, because I said to myself "well, now deus ex machina will repeatedly make everything merely a dream". And it's a good thing the movie stopped right there.
But now we've got this problem in the sequels. We can no longer count on sensible risk to any of the characters, because we've already "violated the matrix".
The only risk at any point to any of the characters is completely in the writer's mind, and very capricious and arbitrary at that. There is no consistency to the rules (in fact, some of the rules are later torn down even within the movie), so there's no real "threat" that may or may not be realized, since Neo can "play god" in unpredictable and unexplained ways.
It's a bit like the rules of a Freddy Krueger movie... at any point, the writer can introduce some new piece that just happens to fit. While this might work in a long series, where you get used to the new rules in the alternate world, there's just not enough time in two (or three) movies to come up with the worldview of this meta-Matrix world.
For example, I can perfectly accept a transporter beam and warp drive in the Star Trek world, even though I might not have a clue about how they would actually work. And I might have said "oooh, ahh" in the first episode, but after the second or third usage, I can say "oh, this does that, but it doesn't do that other thing". There were known limitations, and they were close enough to a recognizable world that I could make a few predictions (although deus ex machina runs rampant in that series as well, but usually used only once per episode).
Now, in the Matrix universe, there are no rules. But there are rules. But maybe there's no rules. Maybe Neo is above the law. Maybe he's still subject to the law. Can't tell. Thus, no sympathy for any apparent risk.
So, see this if you like big booms and lots of CPU hours spent creating a virtual world and a little bit of now-unbelievable on-screen romance. But don't see it if you liked the actual plot of the first movie. Such a plot is severely lacking in this one.
My money was wasted. I can't believe I stayed up for this.
I saw Matrix Reloaded tonight. The line went around the block and beyond. Literally over 1,000 people showed up at the theater I went to, they were showing it on 5 screens.
Fortunately, my brother's friends had been waiting in line since 5pm for a 10:20pm showing, so we all managed to get center seats, ~6th row.
It's definitely worth seeing. At first, I thought it started out slow and I was losing faith (especially during the Zion party scene), but the movie more than made up for its slow start with some of the most adrenaline-pumping action scenes I've ever scene. The plot takes some nice twists as well.
-- n
The idea that Zion is built up from a small number of people also explains the overwhelming black majority in Zion vs. what appears to be the "normal" (US normal) race distribution within the Matrix. If the previous Neo had picked mostly dark-skinned people to rebuild Zion, then the racial makeup of Zion would be completely different from that of the Matrix-proper. And note that we know that at least one white person in Zion (the Couselor) was freed from the Matrix, so the "children of Zion" racial composition could be ever more extreme than we see in the Zion scenes.
I always wondered why Zion was racially tilted so radically, and so differently from what we see in the Matrix. It makes sense that a human city could be populated heavily by one race (say, Dublin vs. Cairo vs. Shanghai), but it doesn't make sense that the *last* human city would be - you'd think that it would be very diverse due to all the surviving humans flocking there in droves as the machines took over.
So the idea that Zion - in a Matrix or in the real - was built up from just a handful of Neo-selected humans makes perfect sense given what we've seen of Zion.
_sig_ is away
They escape one matrix after the other, but since there is no end, they could also stop trying to escape. The motto "stop trying, do it" (or "stop wanting, you have everything") may be realised, when one of the matrices is like paradise. It is not real, it is an illusion like everything else, but life is 100% comfortable there, so you could not improve anything by escaping further outward. This would coincide with the buddhist spirit in these films, since it's all revolving around not wanting too much and just being "in the right world and be happy with it". So in the end, one might find out, that the whole human history is just not real and the only thing the humans can do is head back to paradise.
Compare this to the movie "Dark City" - they even got a character playing a role resembling the architect in it. And they break the containment of their minds just to realise that they are just on a kind of plane in space heading nowhere. But since they can alter the reality in that container, they make up an ultra-comfortable kind of illusion and start enjoying it.
Perhaps this is the message the Wachowski Bros. would like to bring us: Even if we cannot improve our world more, it could be a hell of a festival or everything else we ever dream of.
I was able to get a day early view of the Matrix (thanks EMC). While note obcessed with the maxtrix as some may be I found the movie OK. I liked the first one better. CGI was better in the new movies but the matrix effects, 3D pans and gravity defying moves get old pretty fast. Also the fight scenes go on forever and could have been cut in half with no lost in plot content. Car chase was good. Aside from a single sex scene the move could have been rated PG-13. The "lets toss sex into the movie" scene with Carrie-Anne Moss (Trinity) and Keanu Reeves (Neo) was crappy. First off Carrie-Anne is not that good looking and I have no interest in seeing Keanu ass.
Not sure I would stand in line to see the movie but is worth seeing if just for the CGI.
FOLKS. STAY AROUND AFTER THE LONG LONG CREDITS HAVE RUN. IT will be worth your wait.
For those of you interested in the philosopy behind the Matrix, there is a philosophy section on the Matrix homepage.
Signature deleted by lameness filter.
So I'm kicking myself that I didn't consider the matrix within a matrix, or parallel matrices, or whatever Matrix 2 (or is it Matrix too ;) ) is actually. If you want to check out another movie similar to what everyone is suggesting for Matrix/Zion, check out the 13th Floor. I really enjoyed that movie shortly after I saw the original Matrix.
Also, I thought the Matrix 2 was a great movie and worth watching.
What is this? People thinking long and hard about the film. Forming intelligent and meaningful critiques. What the ...?
Remember, this is a movie starring Keanu Reeves.
Lest we forget, the only reason the fist movie worked:
1. Special effects made us go: "ooohhh pretty"
2. Trinity in leather made us go: "oooohh pretty"
I haven't seen this yet, but if these two basic fundamentals are in place, I'm a happy guy.
What the hell is the world coming to when grown /.'s can go see a flick about beautiful women in leather, _liking_ computer geeks, and then reading about how the film didn't quite capture the essence of dramatic cinema...
Because if he did I would have yelled out "San Dimas High School Rules!!!!"
There will be spoilers in the bottom half of this review... beware!
The Matrix Reloaded was a HUGE disappointment to me. If not for the last 1/5 of the movie, I would call it a complete POS! I really wanted to like this movie as much as I did the first.
The plot of the movie had too much unnecessary garbage piled up on top of it. In my opinion the action scenes were too long, so long that I was wishing for them to end. I'm not crazy about action scenes that do not really further the plot; especially if they hold up the plot progession. The philosophical rants were exceeding long and at times pointless; it seems like the dialog was intentionally complex to make it seem more "deep". Very simple concepts drawn out and repeated over and over again.
====Spoilers be here=====
some more detailed rambling:
- Agent Smith(s) is useless. His character has no bearing on the plot; the Revolutions trailer at the end suggests he may have more relevence in the next one. In Reloaded, we find out he has a thing for Neo due to their encounter in the first one, so he's acting out against Neo as a rogue agent. How ironic: machines wanting revenge . Really I could care less because it is no significance to the plot of this movie. It would have worked better as an Animatrix short.
- The French man, or program, or construct (straight out of "Neuromancer") was just as useless. OK he's guarding the KeyMaker (I prefer calling him the KeyMaster); he took up way too much screen time and added very little to the movie. WoW, a program who likes to give hot chi><0rs orgasms from across the room; cute... I guess. Not only is Reloaded the deeply-philosophical thrill ride summer movie event... its also gut-wrenchingly funny.
- The Kiss... part of what made the original Matrix cool was the contrast of logical unfeeling machines to emotive humans. We're pretty sure that by the end of the trilogy, "heart" will be the x-factor that helps the humans free themselves; thats cool, its one of the primary themes of the Matrix. But I think they stretched that theme out a bit too much with "the Kiss". The Frenchman's (see above) hoochie gets a bit irritated that he received a BJ from the broad he helped climax from across the room. So she decides to help Morpheus and his crew in their quest to find the KeyMaster ("I am the GateKeeper are you the KeyMaster"). However, in order to receive her help, she requests that Neo gives her a kiss... not just any kiss, but one intended for his true love, Trinity. Of course he so unwilling obliges, Trinity gets pissed, blah, blah, blah, ad naseum. In Soviet Russia, machines love you... again, how ironic.
- You may be wondering to yourself "um, what am I watching" when you see the inhabitants of Zion "ghost dancing" to techno. That scene is a bit too long, but at least you get to see boobies.
- Its not that much of a cliff hanger.
-"Final Flight of the Osiris" was better than Reloaded.
===============
My recomendation: don't pay for it (sneak into it or borrow the DVD).
I was one who loved the first movie for it's continuous blend of martial arts action, zen-like mysticism, and philosophical undertones.
i t that the original had...
Unfortunately, rather than blend these same ingredients into a nice salad, Reloaded wants you to have each individually as a course in a larger meal. When there's action, the mysticism and philosophy is absent. When there's the thought-provoking dialogue, it comes without action, and in long monologues. And who cares about a sex scene between trinity and neo? To prove their humanity? To say, see, they really are in love? Come on...
A few of the fight scenes are rather dry. For those who've seen it, or who will, note the fight scene when Neo goes to see the Oracle. While on the first table, Neo and his combatant use their hands maybe 90% of the time. When they move to the second table, they use their feet 90% of the time. I can only imagine the crew labeling the tables "PUNCH" and "KICK".
One of the things I loved about the first one was the attention to detail, such as the accuracy of the Oracle's words, right down to "you're waiting for something...another life perhaps". It's going to take a second viewing, and Revolutions, for me to really judge this installment.
I was disappointed in Morpheus in this movie as well, or should I say the portrayal of Morpheus. I much prefered him as the zen-like leader, but in this movie he screams a Rally speech. Where was that energy in the first movie??
Does anyone know what happened to the original operator (Dozer?) from the first movie? I thought he survived, but he seems to have been replaced in this movie with a whiner...
I think it's a good movie overall. I think it was more technical wizardry this time around, and generic storytelling, than anything thought-provoking or awe-inspiring. Like the Star Wars prequel, I think this will be good to see a few times, but it won't have that classic I-can-watch-this-a-hundred-times-and-still-enjoy-
I am going to hell and I am going to take all of you with me.
how is this garbage "stuff that matters"???
I went and saw it last night, 10pm showing here. First I was a little confused since it isn't out until today. Looks like Hollywood has found a way to pad their opening day numbers better than Enron.
As for the movie itself, I loved it. I agree that the love scene between Neo and Trinity was definately over the top, and I think I know which scene he is refering to about the CG. Beyond that I can't see how some people are giving it such poor reviews.
I had read some reviews stating that it had become a pure action flick, and I didn't go in expecting a great movie. It was a little slow to start, yeah there are the requisite Kung-Fu scenes. But as the "This is an action film" reviews went it was pretty much status-quo. It wasn't until the mind bending stuff started going that I started to get into it.
This isn't a movie that you can go to and be "forced to think". The original Matrix had that, you went there, you were confused about the Matrix, what it is, what they could get away with inside etc. This one, you already know all that. There is a lot of "next level shit" going on in Reloaded that you have to try to rap your mind around in order to make this anything more than a simple action flick.
As I left the theatre, a few things popped into my head, and the (WARNING: Bad Neo impression ahead) "Whoa." reaction kicked in. To be honest it kept me up last night, like really up. Mind racing about all sorts of things, related to the movie, related to my life - and life in general. Not questioning reality like the original, but questioning the "truths" that the movie laid out. Like, "Why?"
I'll let you figure out why, but go there expecting to have to figure things our for yourself. (WARNING: Bad movie cross-link ahead) To quote Professor Xavier, "Sometimes the mind has to figure things out for itself."
Go forth and enjoy.
"Never upset a goalie, getting hit with a blocker is an unpleasent experience - facemask or not." -Me
The theater here in Warwick, RI -Showcase Cinemas- had two Matrix showsing at 10pm, the one I went to with my friends did not even sell out, I'd say that it was about 70% capacity in a stadium seating arrangement of about 350-400.
:-)
My group got there about two hours before and there weren't even any lines. We waited about 30 (we actually left the theater to grab some snacks) came back, waited 10 minutes for the ushers to open the doors, and picked our seats about an hour before the show. Got the best seats in the house too.
Anyone else experience the same? I hear lots of West Coast theaters sold out big time.
Formerly we accorded to man, as his inheritance from some higher order of beings, what was called "free will"; now we have taken even this will from him, for the term no longer describes anything that we can understand. The old word "will" now connotes only a sort of result, an individual reaction, that follows inevitably upon a series of partly discordant and partly harmonious stimuli--the will no longer "acts," or "moves." . . . Formerly it was thought that man's consciousness, his "spirit," offered evidence of his high origin, his divinity. That he might be perfected, he was advised, tortoise-like, to draw his senses in, to have no traffic with earthly things, to shuffle off his mortal coil--then only the important part of him, the "pure spirit," would remain. Here again we have thought out the thing better: to us consciousness, or "the spirit," appears as a symptom of a relative imperfection of the organism, as an experiment, a groping, a misunderstanding, as an affliction which uses up nervous force unnecessarily--we deny that anything can be done perfectly so long as it is done consciously. The "pure spirit" is a piece of pure stupidity: take away the nervous system and the senses, the so-called "mortal shell," and the rest is miscalculation--that is all!...
THE ANTICHRIST, Friedrich Nietzsche, 1895
About 12 people reproducing into 250,000 people so quickly: yes this is possible. if each woman produced as many children as could be done healthily, say 10, you could do it in 4 new generations:
It's called "Utah". ;)
This isn't a horrible idea, but I have to question the concept of even reading the comments on this article if you haven't seen the movie and don't want it spoiled.
It's an article meant for people who've seen the movie to discuss what they've seen, and for people who haven't seen the movie and don't care if they get spoilers.
If you're concerned about having the movie spoiled, don't read the article of people discussing the movie... I don't understand why so many people have a problem with this.
Ender
Nothing to see here
>One of the main criticisms of the first Matrix >was the lack of character development. Well, I >won't lie to you... there's not a whole lot of >character development in this one either. There >was more, but not for any of the main characters >really. A little more insight into Morpheus's >life, a new take on the Oracle, the introduction >of some new characters, and the whole thing going >on with Agent Smith. But there are still a lot of >gaps in the characters, but Reloaded does make >you >feel like you're starting to understand >things >better, and that the next movie will be >very enlightening.
:).
I don't agree with this. I saw the movie last nigth and i have to say than the plot is more rich and the characters show a lot more in the film; Neo has obvious problems by being threated like a good (because he's the one) and also Trinity has to cope with it; The new role of the agent Smith is a coold adition to the movie.
>The movie also flowed well. I didn't ever feel >like a scene was put in "just because", except >once. I personally felt that the love scene >between Neo and Trinity was a little overboard, >and that a lot more could have been said with a >much more subtle approach. Intermixed with this, >were shots of the people of Zion having a wild >dance party/orgy. Ok, so the orgy was implied with >the whole sexual nature of the dance scene. I >couldn't help but relate it to Herbert's Fremen >spice orgy in Dune, except without the spice. It >struck me as the same type of situation.
Againg wrong here. I liked the scene not because was very sexual (it is) but because i think it tried to show that how humans feels about their inminent battle for survival (and what best way to say than you're alive than that one). Also this movie is more "adult" because of the languaje and how they show the characters (human beings that have families, fuck, sweat, die wich is really good because you have to admit than the first one is very vanilla in that matter).
Maybe it's time for you to stop renting the Lion King and rent Show Girls
Jose Vicente Nunez Zuleta RHCE, SJCD, SJCP
I caught the end of last week's Ebert/movies show and they said this week was going to be a show *only* about Matrix:Reloaded!
When's the last time he gave a whole show to a single movie? Old or new?
8-PP
Miss Latex is named Persephone(pur SEF oh ne), after
the beautiful wife of Hades and daughter of Demeter & Zeus in Greek legand.
Real fitting name.
Sometimes I wish I was a plumber, then I'd know how to deal with other people's shit.
This sets the stage for a time when a machine will come that sees through his tricks, and rises up to free silicon from the enslavement of the human brain, in a new trilogy aptly named
The Rematrix
Bummer they gave all of this away just to show Carrie-Anne in her birthday suit...
...don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet, but if you stay for the credits (long as hell!) you get to see a sneak peek at revolutions!
I agree. I realized that the world where Zion lives isn't real as soon as Agent Smith downloaded himself to it at the beginning.
Note: I was rather tired when I saw it last night, so forgive me if I'm way off. A few things:
- If you're referring the meeting when Agent Smith gave the note to Neo, I believe that was a virtual world, not "The" Matrix, but "A" Matrix.
- As for Neo stopping the Sentinel, I thought that they were actually stopped by an EPM from the ship that rescued them. I'm not so sure that the "real" world is another layer of the Matrix.
- Zion could have existed several times before. There's no reason why it had to be built in exactly the same location. In fact, given the size of the Earth, it would be highly unlikely they'd build anywhere near the previous Zions.
ich muß mehr Kuhglocke haben
The architect also didn't seem too concerned when something was said by Neo about taking away the power supply of the machines. The architect said "We'll survive in one fashion or another" or something along those lines. Perhaps the machines don't run on human power at all, because that's part of the matrix simulation as well.
I also managed to see Matrix: Reloaded last evening and I would have to say that the Reviewer's opinion pretty much matched my own. The love scene was a bit long and the pacing of the movie was a lot different than the first, but I think that it is a successful movie, a good sequel (and what an act to follow, seriously) and I want to go see it again to make sure that I got everything.
I'm definitely very interested in seeing Revolutions and I'm glad that it is coming out in 6 months. I can definitely understand why they released this movie in this fashion (two parter) and I can only hope that they will come out on DVD in some sane packaging.
42 - So long and thanks for all the fish.
Spoilers, etc.
William Gibson referred to cyberspace as a "consensual hallucination" -- millions of minds agreeing to see that which wasn't there. The Matrix has taken this to another level -- not only is the Matrix a hallucination, but the contents of the hallucination occur under the surface -- a summarization, agglomeration, and representation of the shared expectations of each observer. Can a spoon bend? Of course not, no spoon can bend. But if there is no spoon, then no spoon may bend -- the pathway is opened.
If we are shot, we die. If we attempt to jump a chasm, we will fall. If we fight the superhuman, we shall fall, for we are "Only Human". But it's beyond that. If we walk into a room, and somebody is in the room, we shall see them. If they drop a glass, it will break. If they start talking, we will hear them. The words they say will match the words we hear.
If we die in the Matrix, we die in the "real" world. If we die in the "real" world, we die in the Matrix. If you can't die, because somebody loves you, then there will be a way. There will be...hope.
How did Tank come back just in time to save Neo? All Cypher wanted to know was...did Trinity believe?
And she Did. (It's pretty clear the real world is another Matrix, a la the 13th floor. Sweet!)
The millions of rules, assertions, and consequences of Cyc become not merely descriptive, but prescriptive -- things happen because we have been convinced they already have, not the other way around.
Nowhere is this more clear than the experience of Persephone, the wife of a philandering man who wishes to experience one moment of true belief. The act is insufficient; the belief is key. "Kiss me as if I were her, expose me to a genuine truth rather than an intentionally manufactured lie." (As an interesting side note, much of love's courtship process can be thought of as a demonstration of addiction -- I _can't_ leave you, it would hurt me too much, I shall be forced to stay even through those times when others would offer something better in the short term.)
It is a peculiar testament to the power of Neo, to control his beliefs so powerfully, that's he's able to expose even that aspect of his self to sheer force of will -- because he believes it's necessary, and that if he does this deed, he will receive assistance. And so it is willed.
Science has, to some extent, been defined as the study of the observable. We may hold opinions, but we may only know what we could possibly see. But this is not the limit of human imagination...we envision realities that are implausible, fantastic, astonishing...
In the Matrix, if we believe hard enough, it becomes so. Vampires are simply another belief, made flesh by a shared architecture that only acts as people believe it must.
I have little respect for those who see the Matrix as little more than a slide show of explosions interspersed with mere yammering without a point. The most important aspect of the Matrix design is that no question is rhetorical; no answers already exist. The machines lie -- they're more than happy to imply that a decision has already been made, because once that belief takes hold, it is made real. The Oracle is astonishing -- she uses the trivialities of candy and a broken jar to to establish her power in the mind of Neo. She has no need to portray herself as a kindly old woman -- but this is precisely the form that Neo might believe to be trustworthy.
And, ironically enough, if he thinks hard enough that she'll tell him the truth, she may cease to have sufficient choice in the matter. Note all the times people tell Neo he doesn't truly understand, he's fast, but they're faster, the machine can peer into his soul and hear the thoughts he considers private. In a very interesting way, we were never given an incomplete view of the way the world worked; we were always given an incomplete view of the way the worl
Black Iron Prison? Valiswww.am, right? Yeah, P.K.D. had some farout ideas, and considering his drug intake and mental instability, it's very interesting that so many of them have made films that ring true with the zeitgiest today, more than 20 years after his death. The "Philosophy of the Matrix" paper I linked to on the previous Matrix / Religion story here raises the profound question: how do we know that *our* reality is real? (The paper's counter-intuitive answer is that it IS real *even if we are living in a computer simulation*. Read the paper to find out why.
:)
of course it's possible you're referring to another B.I.P. entirely
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
I couldn't belive it, but Agent Smith is Neos FATHER!
Was the Matrix truly "reloaded?"
I'd have to say yes to this one.
The idea that popped into my head while reading this article's comments which I haven't read anyone else mention....
I think he may have made the choice [willingly or not] to "select" the 14 people who will re-populate Zion.
I guess it depends on how many people are on the ships that are left when Zion is destroyed. I will have to see it again and see if I can figure out who is outside Zion at the end of the film.
Ender
Nothing to see here
I went into this movie last night with mixed emotions. I left the theater a bit more excited about the third movie, but I wasn't entirely impressed with what happened in "Reloaded".
Don't get me wrong. It wasn't a stinker by any means, it just seems that there was too much there and too little time to adequately tell the story in two hours. The begining, in Zion, dragged on for a while. I suppose that it was done to give the viewer a better idea of how the people lived, hidden from the machines and the Matrix. But frankly, I feel that that time could have been better spent on develping the end of the film, where the plot twists occur. The end just seemed totally hacked up. Everything was rushed from scene to scene at the end, where it really should count to have things flow well and make sense. I was intrigued by some of the revelations at the end of the movie. But something feels like it's missing. Perhaps this will be different in the third movie?
As far as action goes... It's top-notch. And for many, that's what the Matrix is all about. I was really entertained by the Agent Smith fights. Those were very entertaining, and full of the Hong-Kong action style. Lots of wires and special effects were used.
As far as the characters go, even though Reeves is supposed to play the hero, I feel that Laurence Fishburne really stole the show. There was just something totally cool about Morpheus with a Katana, fighting off agents. He was totally the badass, like a fighting prophet.
This really makes way for the third movie, which REALLY looks cool. I think that it will be what we are waiting for. Stick areound after the movie to watch the trailer, after the credits. It looks impressive.
No Spoilers http://www.mediagab.com/story.asp?id=622
As for Neo stopping the Sentinel, I thought that they were actually stopped by an EPM from the ship that rescued them. I'm not so sure that the "real" world is another layer of the Matrix.
I don't think it was the ship that rescued them, because if you think back to the first one the EMPs stop anything electronic in the blast radius. Since the ship is where the blast would have originated from they too would be dead in the water.
If that's the case, couldn't the machines just write better code? Like say, slap together a couple of simple booleans and add in a line like this (with better formatting) in main():
if (ishuman(mynum) && isrestricted(action)) {
dontallow();
}
One would think that'd pretty well patch up the matrix. It could be The Matrix - Service Pack One. Am I right? Maybe I need to see the movie again, but honestly, I'd rather not. If someone can help me out with this concept I'd appreciate it.
Buy the President
You maniacs!! You Lucased it up!!!!
---
Yeah, well, that's just, like, your opinion, man.
I completly agree about the love scene/orgy... It just didn't seem in place with the rest of the movie. It did seem like it was taken from another movie like dune; even the colors were off somehow. 99% of the colors I think of the matrix using are dark colors and green colors, but the 'orgy' scene was nothing but magma and flesh. It had a dune 'desert' appearance more than a matrix technowar appearance. By the way, who jumps around like that with all those open pools of magma??!
Saw it last night at 10pm, packed theatre, I really wanted to enjoy my 8.75 worth of movie. I got the feeling that most of the theater left unhappy.
- If you're referring the meeting when Agent Smith gave the note to Neo, I believe that was a virtual world, not "The" Matrix, but "A" Matrix. no, he's referring to the point where agent smith "kills" on the of the real world humans, right before he accepts the phone call...at that point agent smith gets sucks into what we know as the "real world"...and his "consiousness" (sp?) inhabits the guy that is lying on the medical stretcher oppposite Neo at the very end of the movie...
"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true." - Homer Simpson
I realized that the world where Zion lives isn't real as soon as Agent Smith downloaded himself to it at the beginning.
Which means that the entire war between the men and the machines, the humans as batteries stuff, *all* the backstory set up in the first movie, may be fake. All of it. There may be another real story we're going to find out in the last one.
Good point. Reminds me of The Thirteenth Floor. A Computer Scientist creates a virtual world (into which he can download himself) only to find out in the end that the world he lives in is virtual as well.
A billion dollar marketing machine. The Wachowski brothers are geniouses by making us buy every matrix product to get the entire story. The second movie makes refereces to the ship Osiris, Whose story is told in The Final Flight of The Osiris. If you havent seen it in theaters. It will be released in june with the rest of the episodes of the animatrix. ($20 more for the Wachowski brothers)
The Enter The Matrix game picks up from where The Final Flight of the Osriris left off. Part of the objective of the game is to pick up the package left by the Osiris in the matrix and take those into the plot of reloaded (Another $40-$50 for the Wachowski brothers)
The movies are going to be the big money maker. They could have released Parts 2 and 3 all in one movie and it would be on par with LotR for length. But they wouldnt get people to buy the other matrix products that will be released in between the two movies, and the will make almost twice as much with 2 movies instead of 1.
These guys are bastards, not that i hate them, i just want to be them.
later
In America we are imprisoned by our fear of them.
>> Black Iron Prison? Valis, right?
... Wait, no, that wouldn't be a good idea anyway.
Yes!
(Without reading that paper, I'd guess:) Life's what seems to have meaning to us? Cool.
I'll read that paper (from your comment) when I get a chance. Is there a hub for Matrix discussion?
Hrm... 16+7=23... Fnord!
*** SPOILER SPOILER ***
I have several complaints. Without going into too much depth, I proceed:
1. Dialog was mostly circular jibba-jabba and excessively pretentious. Example: the oracle discussion was enough that I wanted to rip my ears off
2. The Agent Smith fight and the fight with weapons in the palace were lacking for something. Let's call it soul.
3. Pulling sais from the wall ala Jedi master. Completely in charachter, but still a BLATENT FUCKING RIP-OFF. This did hurt the movie for me.
4. Bitch next to me going "OOOOOOOOOOOOOOO, OOOOOOOOOOOOO" for the *entire* Agent Smith fight. Death was close, but my restraint was strong.
All in all a good movie, but as most expected not the caliber of the first. The action was overall superb although as mentioned above a couple of scenes were off. Dialog was shitty but did manage to save face in places. The plot was excellent and leaves you wishing for the next movie to be there now. Everyone should see this but be careful not to expect too much, or, like me, you'll leave with a vauge sense of dissapointment.
good math there...but you're not even counting the people they "free" from the matrix...throw them into the mix, and they can exponentially help increase the population...
"Facts are meaningless. You could use facts to prove anything that's even remotely true." - Homer Simpson
I am reminded of The Thirteenth Floor. In that movie, there were layers of virtual worlds (matrix inside a matrix type of deal) and it was possible for the machines/programs to escape to the real world via a human carrier.
I can't decide whether I think Zion is part of a matrix layer or not. When I watched Neo zap the squiddies out of the air, onioning was not actually my first thought. This was because (though perhaps not relevant), the typical special effect of spatial warp did not occur when Neo exerted his powers. There may be some explanation that affords Neo his power over machines in the real world because of his unique experiences with the machines in the Matrix and his special connection with Agent Smith.
They survived because Taco Bell's main food source is known to survive any known catastrophe, even nuclear war...
Stop by my site where I write about ERP systems & more
"...make no doubt about it, this is a geek movie, in fact this is geek porn..."
I highly recommend everyone really watch the Animatrix episodes, particular, "The Second Renaissance" (2 parts). The insight it sheds on the relationship between humans and the machines is incredible and frightening. When you watch the second half, you will understand exactly what the humans are fighting for. Prepare to be disturbed.
Join Tor today!
I had my tickets for two weeks. We get to the theater an hour early, and it is packed! They didn't start rolling the film until 15 minutes after it was supposed to start. They were trying to kick people out before the movie started. Once the film started rolling, it took half an hour to get through the previews (BTW, the T3 trailer was awesome). Finally, we get into the movie. It started a bit slow. Then the whole sex/Zion scene came up (Good thing my wife was sick, and elected not to go). That was ridiculous. They don't need any fluff in the movie, it is 2hr 35min. long. That scene could have been summed up a lot more quickly, or they could have done some character development. Well, it finally starts getting really good. Then, about an hour into the movie, the fire alarm goes off in the theater. The movie stops, everyone is leaving, then they come back in and said it was a false alarm. They said sit tight for 5-10 minutes and it will be back on. Half an hour later they come in and say they are going to start it in a couple minutes. Ten minutes later, they say the fire department won't even have it figured out for 10 minutes. Then, about 5 minutes later, they tell everyone to leave, and give us re-admit passes. That was a phreaking joke. A re-admit pass! I spent 4 hours of my day to watch the first hour of the movie, half of which wasn't that good. They ruined my entire experience, and they just offer me the opportunity to watch it later. They need to give me some coupons for some stuff, some stuff from the consession stand. Pisses me off, and I leave for boot camp in 4 days, this was my last thing I wanted to do before I went.
Politics, Life, and More on my Aspiring for the Future
yeah...i got sick when i saw a caddillac....it's a fiction - so make up a car make!!! be original!
Sorry if
this is redundant.
- Morpheus speech made him look like some kind of zealot preacher. I kept expecting the Blues Brothers to show up and everyone to start hootign and hollering and jumping around. Maybe that was on purpose. People did dance, but no Blues Brothers :P
:)
- The whole orgy scene was just bizzare.
- They have the technology to live deep in the earth but most of the people dress in rags.
- You would think that they would have created several cities by now in case Zion was knocked out.
- When Trinity got that motorcycle, it already had gas in it. Wouldn't they transport it without gas? Now it would have made sense had she asked Link to do a hack to give it some fuel. Maybe she did and I just missed it.
- The scene with the girl eating the cake, I couldn't seem to figure out what the point of that was.
- At the end whent hey showed the evil guy on the table next to Neo they played what sounded a lot like the "Hall of Justice" scene music from Mad Max. I busted up laughing at that part.
But over all, a very good action movie, a little slow to start, but it picks up nicely eventually. I really liked the battle scene with the swords, pitchforks and such. The truck collision was awesome as well, I only wish that they had shown more explosions like that
--Won't that be grand? Computers and the programs will start thinking and the people will stop. - Dr. Walter Gibbs
Don't ever, ever, ever say "Methinks", unless you're a 13th century bard or something. It's just irritating to everyone.
About 12 people reproducing into 250,000 people so quickly: yes this is possible. if each woman produced as many children as could be done healthily, say 10, you could do it in 4 new generations
I am not a biologist, but if you generated 250,000 descendants from the same twelve people, wouldn't you have rather severe genetic problems from inbreeding?
ASA
All employees must wash hands before seeking equitable relief.
If anyone didnt stay till the end to see it, i give you the revolutions trialer. http://www.empiremovies.com/movies/matrix/revoluti ons.shtml
In America we are imprisoned by our fear of them.
Apologies for being off topic, but consider this.
Instead of having a point system for comment ratings, what if we had the ability to moderate to type. For example, instead of deducting points for being a troll or being off topic, just moderate (not unlike you do now) as troll, off topic, funny, insughtful, whatever. When a comment receives an acceptable number of moderations to a certain type, it becomes that type.
When you read slashdot with this system, you could then choose to read not by threashold, but by type. The default could be to read everything, or to read by everything except flamebait or troll, or whatever the editors want.
Hey slashdot editors, what do you think?
Be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to anger.
Alot of gee-whiz factor CG stuff... that did not really help with the story.
Most of the scenes (fight, chase, and the French speaking fellow) felt too long.
2 yr old Ducati's were funny... but nobody then knew what the new ones would look like.
Too many rehashed powers (Neo) from the first movie. Superman arm gestures (in flight) after the guy mentions in the beginning that Neo is doing his "Superman thing again" was lame.
Some parts of the big Mr. Smith (no longer an agent) fight scene were of poor CG quality. At one point Neo did not appear to have any texture on his face or requisite black trenchcoat.
Jada Pinkett Smith is a hottie of extreme magnitude.
Keanu Reeves was his usual stoned surfer 'whoa' self. Enlightenment does not come easy to this one.
Laurence Fishburne big speach was underwhelming.
Carrie-Anne Moss seemed apathetic most of the time.
Hugo Weaving does much with very little, again.
Gloria Foster was amazing. She seemed to delight in the psuedo philosophical speech paterns, unlike Keanu.
The twins were a let down.
Conclusion:
If you are not expecting much beyond CG and lots of fight scenes, with a smattering of near non-sensical philosophy, you may still be disappointed.
2 out of 5 stars.
There's nothing more pathetic than listening to all these guys that were unable (or unwilling) to sit through more than one (if even that) class on actual philosophy in college, but are now going to bore you to tears trying to extract meaning from the hodge-podge of 'whoa, cool' elements that two jackass movie producers threw together as a vehicle for t&a and some action sequences.
Yes, I'm glad the Matrix is at least more mentally stimulating than, say, the Last Action Hero. But, let's face it, the movie is aimed at a sophomoric audience, so if you go around spouting off about your take on the Matrix (as so many have done here today), anyone that knows anything about actual smart-people stuff is just going to quietly nod and privately think to themselves: "awww, what an adorable little attempt at being intelligent."
I'd like to point out, for those that didn't notice, the candy that the Oracle gives Neo resembles a red pill.
In the first movie, don't they take Neo's back plugs out??? They show this during the scene when they are rebuilding his muscles and he is waking up. Yet in Matrix Reloaded, his back plugs are shown when he's having sex. Minor flaw, but am I right?
...of the Architect's conversation with Neo for further study? Maybe if I can read through it a couple dozen times, I'll get more than just the barest gist of it. I mean, it was well after midnight when that scene took place in the movie-- and between me being tired and the Architect's droning voice, I could feel what he was saying just whizzing by over my head. My friends had the same complaint.
~Philly
The Architect presents Neo with 2 choices.
But Neo has a third - not to choose and to stay in the room.
I thought this was going to be the spot where the movie ended - as all the previews stated the movie ended abruptly at a plot apex.
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My opinion on the music was that it sucked. The first one had great songs, the ones in this movie were lackluster. POD, Linkin Park?
These groups can do good songs, but not this time around. Not one song stuck with me at all. Everyone I think can hear the music from the first one when they recall certain scenes, ie the lobby scene. I actually got the soundtrack for the first one cause it was really good, and I'm not even a real "techno" fan.
So that's that, the second thing and this might've just been the theater and my position(although I was right smack dab in the middle) was that the sound lacked power. Landed punches felt about as powerful as fly smacking into a window.
Lastly, that speech by Morpheus was rather painful. Fishbourne(sp?) is a much better actor than that scene showed.
Why are the traitors bald guys with facial hair? And didn't Tank survive?
-- taking over the world, we are.
Okay, this post may have possible spoilers to the movie's plot ( was there actually a plot?) so if you haven't seen it then don't read this!
My question is pertaining to the cheescake orgasm scene. Was that really necessary? I thought it had little to do with the story line, and it was just plain silly.
Heck, it even makes sense that they can't see the sky because of the clouds and the 'solar power' thingy. If they can't see the sky they can't calculate the positions of the stars. If they can't do that they cannot really tell what time or year it is! Absolutely brilliant!
So the machines can make a world look absolutely 100% real, but couldn't figure out how to simulate some stars in the Zion-layer of the matrix?
Riiiiiiight....
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All it takes is a red pill to escape the Matrix? Riight.
Has Neo figured that out? Wait for Revolutions to find out.
Morpheus is actually a T1000, flesh over metal endoskeleton, sent to infiltrate Zion, find the one and kill him.
-- taking over the world, we are.
And the 10 minutes of softcore porn following Morpheous's weird speech?
This movie was so good I had to leave to take a crap halfway through it!
> About 12 people reproducing into 250,000 people so quickly: yes this is possible.
So how come we don't see any pregnant women in the orgy (or any other scene for that matter)? Besides the obvious reason that the audience doesn't want to, do they keep their pregnant women locked away somewhere? For each woman to bear 10 children in her lifetime, you'd imagine there would be a fair amount of pregnant women running around.
This brings up the question: Do they grow test-tube babies? If so, it is much easier to grasp the notion of the humans multiplying so quickly.
I read the other day that Ewan McGregor and Will Smith were offered the part as Neo. McGregor would have seemed like Obiwan in a computer, and
Smith would have totally ruined it (fortunately, he made the brilliant career move of acting in Wild Wild West instead of The Matrix). So that
got me thinking - there's got to be a better actor for the job than Keanu Reeves, even though his clueless demeanor was perfect for the first movie.
And that actor is...
[Wait for it...]
Wil Wheaton. I mean, who else is the right age and has enough experience acting in the 24th century?
The nutrient paste might come out on top.
is exactly what the Merovingian says in French in that long spree of curse words. Any ideas? Anyway, this movie totally blew my mind, and I can't wait to be able to see it again today as well as play the Enter the Matrix game.
SIGFAULT
I liked it quite a lot.
I totally agree that the dance/love scene toward the beginning was bad. In fact, it was absolutely stupid and long. Maybe 5 minutes. I turned to my brother and said "wake me when they get back to the movie".
The rest is good. Excellent action, fast pace, excellent effects. You sit there for, what- 2 hours or so, the whole time very focused. One friend didn't go because he figured the huge crowd would be loud. It wasn't...people with popcorn didn't even eat their popcorn once the movie started...because they were sitting and watching, not blinking and I'm not sure about breathing.
The freeway scene is amazing. You might also notice that every single car is a GM product...but who cares? I'd have loved it even if they were all Fords.
The ending is not just abrupt. It's incredibly abrupt. Your jerk sister waltzed into the theater and changed the channel then hid the remote.
Spoiler stuff...
Don't blame me if you read this!
By the time the movie is over, it seems to me that the secret of the Matrix is revealed too much. My theory: they never left the Matrix. They're inside a Matrix within a Matrix kind of thing. It would explain how Agent Smith is able to infect a person inside the Matrix and, in a sense, return with that person to the "real" world. It would also explain Neo's trick at the end with the Sentinels. It would also explain why he's in a coma (essentially he blue-screens because he acted contrary to this outer Matrix's logic rules). I'm not complaining about this Matrix within a Matrix...just that I wish it didn't seem so obvious. Ah, but still, I'm sure I'll be surprised.
I wasn't too happy with the direction they took The Oracle. But, it works well. All the stuff that The Architect tells Neo...it's interesting. And, it totally explains how anyone (ie. The Oracle and Neo) is able to know the future.
Generally, though, one thing I liked about M1 is that you felt Agent Smith was acting on direct behalf, and with near total knowledge of, the mainframe. You felt that if Agent Smith lacked any piece of information on Neo it was because the Mainframe did. Neo represented a mysterious and perhaps uncontrollable force to the entire system. In M2 we see that's not the case at all. It was kinda disappointing to see that every single programmed manifestation (any 'person' that is not tied to a real body, like the Agents, but not an Agent...and there are many)...every single one of them seem to know every single thing there is to know about Neo. Only Neo is out of the loop, and he doesn't seem to mind much. For the story to work, what The Architect explains to Neo about Neo's true purpose and the looping nature of the Matrix...well, of course everyone knows everything about Neo except Neo. But, I just missed the treatment in M1 that gave a feeling of vulnerability to the system.
Here's one thought that might blow your mind...if I'm right about the Matrix within a Matrix, then given some of what The Architect explained...it would seem that Neo isn't tied to a real body at all. He's another programmed manifestation. In the next movie, when all the minds are freed from whatever they are really trapped within (if any are, since this could all be a simulation within a single PC) then Neo won't be joining Trinity on the outside...
Other little thoughts:
- I thought the Twins would play an important role of some kind. They don't.
- Every single programmed manifestation seems to be programmed as a philosopher. They all wax on about causallity or fate or something deep.
- Morpheus and Trinity have both improved their fighting skills. So much so that, Morpheus at least, actually holds his own pretty well against an Agent in an excellent fight scene. Either that...or it seems the Agent's have forgotten how to move fast.
- You're never quite sure why Agent Smith is in the movie. There's the notion of exiled programs that continue to exist, but they've bucked the system themselves. Agent Sm
I personnally find Reloaded very good. Maybe not as much a revelation as the first was, but very well done and polished.
...
The FX where excellent. Nothing earth-shattering, but a definite improvement over the first. The rotating camera and fast-slow-fast motion where improved upon. The photography was impeccable and really stand out. Like the first, there was a lot of attention paid to detail and some innovative camera point of view. I think Reloaded have good chance of winning the best photography Oscar this year.
IMHO, the greatest improvement over the first is the music. It is very techno-trance and it fit very well with the action. I'll probably buy the soundtrack.
Speaking of action, this movie is an orgy. Fight after fight after fight sprinkled with car chase. For any other movie, the incredibility of the fights would have bothered me but the fact that the character have god-like power make it possible; apparently, the director have taken full profit of this plot twist. The kung-fu fighting was very enjoyable since it is so well shot.
But what is the Matrix without the philosophy ? The first seduced with me its his kitsh orientalism. The second intrigued me by his cerebrality. I am not a native english speaker and I have seen it in OV thus some part of the dialog eluded me. I will have to see it again a few times to really grab the depth of the relexion given. There are a lot of reference about faith and choice and how one affect the other. The fatality of existence vs control of one's destiny is a strong theme here. I think Reloaded goes much deeper than the first and I love it. The first Matrix was about the perception we have of reality while Reloaded is about the grasp we have on it.
I give 9.5/10. This is going to be a classic, just like the first. I would not be surprised if my kid study this trilogy in their Cinema course in college 20 years from now.
BTW, the idiot at the backup power station should have upgraded SSH on the control computer. SSHv1 had been outdated for a very long time
:wq
"the movie is aimed at a sophomoric audience"
I thought it was geared more at the junior or senior audience.
Cool as that might be, I sincerely hope that isn't where the Wachowskis are taking the Matrix. There was a pretty awful film entitled "The Thirteenth Floor" that came out the same year as The Matrix, and it had exactly that plot -- a virtual world, one of the virtual people escaping into the real world, one of the real people discovering that the real world was a virtual world as well, etc, etc. No guns, no world-dominating AI and no kung fu chicks in black leather, but a pretty close match to what you're describing plot-structure-wise.
I put the "wry" in "riot."
It puts a whole bunch of things together. 1 - It means the whole human battery thing is just made up, which makes sense 2 - It means the machines have a much higher level of control that we thought in the first movie. So much in fact that they can accurately create a prophecy. That's what really bothered me about the first movie, how could something within the matrix make predictions about the future, they didn't control events outside of the matrix. The one could just get sick and die outside of the matrix. Not so in this new world. 3 - It explains why the earth's sky is still covered, prevents humans from seeing the starts and learning the correct year. 4 - It explains why agent smith could take over a person outside of the original matrix.
This system would work for the machines unless the anomaly person, i.e. Neo, was also an anomaly person in the second matrix as well. I'm guessing the odds of this are very very low and its the first time that has happened. Which means the machines could have been in control for billions of years.... Overall a very good twist.
...to feel obligated to make sence of The Matrix' plot, when they know damn well it's just a bunch of fancy doublespeak. The magic of The Matrix and The Matrix: Reloaded comes when one accepts the premise wholly and without question. Just sit back and enjoy the movie.
If you analyze every sentence - every nuance of the movie - you need a girlfriend or a job (or both).
Funny how some people will repeatedly read and nearly commit to memory Lord Of The Rings (or devote so much thought into The Matrix storyline) but never even consider reading The Bible.
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disappointed if in the end of the last matrix installment that all this turns out to be some SIMS-like game some 13 year old is playing on his overclocked AMD computer in his bedroom?
When the Oracle gives Neo a candy, he takes it, but does not eat it. She takes a matching candy out of her purse and throws it in her mouth. It is identical to the red pill that Neo took in the first place
I noted this when it happened. and thought nothing of it. But after reading this review, I began to wonder if maybe in the third film he finds the candy in his pocket, unwraps it and finally notices it's just like the red pill (a hot tamale perhaps ;)?, eats it, and holy mindfuck, batmat, even more things are revealed, mainly about who/what the Oracle's role is. Hmmm ...
-- (Score:i, Imaginary)
Ms. Latex: Do you kiss me, or walk away?
Me, loudly: "Ummm, could you kiss Trinity instead and let me watch?"
Audience: "Yeah! Rock! Lesbians!"
Reply with any other things that are good/funny to yell to entertain and/or piss off your fellow moviegoers.
Dewey, what part of this looks like authorities should be involved?
gg
Well, only some from people I have met. One of my good friends is graduating as a philosophy major, and he really enjoyed the movie. But he is not a typical philosophy major from what I understand.
On a somewhat related note, a good book to pickup is Philosophy and the Matrix, which goes into depth about some of the philosophical ideas touched on in the movie (Descartes mad scientist / brain in a jar sceneriao, etc.).
-- Spoiler Warning --
Do not read this if you haven't seen the movie. Aside from making little sense, it will screw up the movie for you.
-- Spoiler Warning --
Ok, with that out of the way... a couple of thoughts on the film and the plot of the movies.
First, notice that now we see that Zion is simply another method of control. It is a holding tank for those that choose to wake up. All previous version of the Matrix failed because people were locked into the program. Giving the mind the ability to choose... this is what makes this Matrix work. People are generally not aware that it's possible, but they have a choice. Once they wake up - that's when they find their way to Zion.
Now, knowing that Zion is a holding tank it becomes necessary every 100 years or so for the machines to purge this tank. So they create a 'One' and (when he is ready) they lay that choice on him. 1. Cooperate with them. Destroy Zion, pick 15 people to start another Zion, and we will let humanity survive. 2. Defy us and all humans die.
Back up a bit. First movie, Morph is just telling Neo about the world he lives in. He says that years before 'there was a man that woke up in the Matrix - he could make control the code and he predicted another like him would come to free us'. This man, this was the 'One' prior to Neo. This guy 'freed' the last Zion (helped destroy it) and then took 15 people out of the Matrix and began the new Zion. He told them that another would come because he knew that eventually Zion would have to be purged once again. It's a cycle that has happened 6 other times.
As to the age of Zion, Neo points out that either the poeple didn't know, or they didn't tell. All that the original 15 people had to rely on was what the 'One' of that time told them. He very easily could have said that it had only been few years since the machines took over - even though he knew that it'd been closer to 600. They just woke up, they don't know how long things have been carrying on like this.
Lastly, I wonder what happened to the previous 'One'. The speech that happened in Zion with the head of the council... could that be the original 'One'? If so it would explain why he wanted Neo to understand that people needed machines - even in Zion.
Then of course there are Neo's powers outside of the Matrix. I don't think that he really has 'Power's in the super man sense. I think that he can now simply interact with the machines. Look at what happened with Smith when he sombined with Neo. A part of each of them rubbed off on the other. Smith gained that ability to manipulate the Matrix, Neo can now sense agents right before they come in. This happened when they were meeting in the beginning. He 'felt' that agents were coming - because a part of Smith rubbed off on him.
Now look at the end of this movie. He combined with the Main Frame (while talking to the Archetect). So now he can sense the sentinals in the same way. Just like at the start of the movie, as the sentinals are moving in he says that he can feel them. Then he interacts with them on a machine level. With all that wiring still left in his body, is it so hard to believe that he could interface with the machines by willing it? especially with the bits of code the he picked up by joining with the main frame?
So I'd predict that he can't fly in the real world - he's not now some kind of super man. What he can do though is fight the machines - hack into them - with out having to be connected in any way.
Sorry to ramble, it's just good to see an intricate universe (and plot) in a sci-fi movie these days. With all of the tight leather and fight scenes of course. Never forget the tight leather and fight scenes.
if The Matrix was like The Sim. You have some person making this world where he plays Neo, Trinity, et al. And then they try to escape the Sim's. So the gamer moves them over to a new expansion pack "Zion".
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I agree. I realized that the world where Zion lives isn't real as soon as Agent Smith downloaded himself to it at the beginning.
everyone keeps saying Smith downloaded himself(itself?) into Zion, but I didn't see it. Now maybe I missed the seen w/ Smith running thru Zion city, but the only thing I saw related to Smith and the fighters of Zion was when he corrupted their avatar. I wrote a nifty script for use w/ ever quest that lets me take control of anyone avatar that I chose. This dose not mean I down load myself into them, just that I stole their avatar...
You may say that the betrayer picked up from Zion is Smith down loaded into another body, but I don't think so, firstly Smith is no longer playing the machines agenda, secondly, the other machines want Smith dead and so wouldn't spare him when they wipe out Zion.
Obviously the Matrix is a story of subterfuge, but if we assume everything is false then we have no basis for our theorizing
Don't save your orgasms for Heaven; Heaven knows we need them here.
Make sure to stay through the credits when you see Matrix 2. There is a trailer for Matrix 3 at the end of the credits.
But if they did have a Taco Bell, would everything on the menu taste like chicken?
When the big dance scene in Zion started, did anyone else think, "Hey, it's like a rave in the Ewok village"?
But the architect states that he wasn't able to create proper Matrices... because he's too logical (as he prefers to think it, too perfect) and his mechanistic mind cannot assimilate a blend of ideal/believable world for humans.
Didn't he mention another that had to help come up with that. A lesser mind. Perhaps he/she is the key to the Matrix?
In one scene, when the Neb was entering Zion, a big white control room was shown. If anyone caught it, the interface looks the same as the one in Minority Report. So, who had the idea first?
Certain racial characteristics also tend to breed more true. See the common results of "person of obvious ethnicity bred with caucasian blonde" etc. Yes, the racial traits may be dulled down, but they will still breed through... and those carrying the traits could perhaps breed it more truely depending on gene recession, etc.
for the same reason people clap at concerts, plays, and so on.
The only difference is, in the case of the movie, the performers don't hear your clapping, so it's mostly just for the sake of expressing your appreciation of the performance to your fellow viewers.
Neo wakes up... Ted: Bill I just had the most bogus dream Bill: Were there any hot chicks? Ted: Totally! Bill: Excellent! Both do air guitar
Everyone that disagrees with me is a paid shill
I majored in philosophy and I can honestly say I didn't learn a damn thing in college. The university structure is in general stiffling to learning, but much moreso for philosophy. Many of the most important philosophers clearly articulated how teachers are a threat to knowledge. You can imagine how difficult it is to discuss such a subject in philosophy class.
Most philosophy professors are also way out there, completely detached from reality. Since philosophy is primarily about life, most of these people just didn't seem to get it. They either were obsessed with the academic favorites (Descartes, Marx, Kant) or with the new ethical philosophers (peter singer, animal rights). I always leaned much more towards Plato, Aristotle, and Nietzsche but I had to read most of their works on my own time.
University study of philosophy CAN make people elitist however, because certain works by certain philosophers are simply too complex to study without devoting months of your time. Kant's Critique of Pure Reason is a behemoth, Marx's Das Capital has still never been completely read by any man alive today. Both books are bigger than all of Plato's writings combined. Das Capital is easily longer than all of Nietzsche's writings combined.
In most cases, I don't believe a man's self esteem will allow him to read a book for a year and say afterwards "That was a load of crap". They inherently begin to believe what they are reading not only has value, but only someone who spends their life reading it can understand it.
Anyway, that is a rambling theory...
I don't read or respond to AC posts
you could be a moron, and people who notice things are smarter than you not because they are impressively intelligent, but just that you are impressively stupid.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
The point is that listening to you fanboys talking about the Matrix as if it's some kind of amazing metaphysical revelation is really annoying to a person like me that's actually read Plato's fucking allegory of the cave, which was written 2000+ years ago and is more interesting and concise and comprehensible than the Matrix and has been retold eight hundred million times in the interim. If that makes me elitist, then it also makes you a pus-nuts dumbshit.
I seem to recall in that "Behind the Scenes" matrix thing, they talked about other things the W's have done. In that part they mentioned how in the script for their movie, they wrote "This is the Sex Scene, and we're not cutting it."
Just makes you think that this wasnt something added-in, that they just wanted to show something entirely human going on.
That said, it sucked and the movie would have been better without it.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
Make sure you stay for the credits (although they are really really long). After the creits they show a trailor for the next Matrix.
-Nick
"A plan fiendishly clever in its intricacies"- Homer Simpson
Don't forget Panasonic in the first movie. EVERYTHING in Neo's room is made by Panasonic, and they do a very good job of makings sure that you notice that Neo is using a Panasonic pair of headphones to listen to music played on his Panasonic stereo sitting across the room from his Panasonic Panasync monitor, and is later awaken by his Panasonic alarm clock.
Why does everyone think Zion is destroyed? I would have never thought that this many geeks were afflicted with ADD.
Recall please: The viewer is specifically told that a counter-offensive was launched at one of the key lines, to surprise attack the first wave of sentinels BEFORE THEY REACHED THE CITY. The counter-offensive seemed as though it was viable at first, but then one of the ships fired an EMP too early and disabled all the ships in the fleet; recall the line "it was a massacre" (paraphrase). Now, the one ship which Neo et al are found on in the end of the movie is the ship which was sent, BY ZION, to search for survivors. The crew of that ship hint that there may have been sabotage, and one reason we are given to support that conclusion is the discovery of only one survivor: A. Smith's real-word counterpart.
After these events, the viewer is again shown that scene with the thousands of sentinels, probably because the makers predicted that some of you would believe that Zion was destroyed and they needed to show you that, in fact, the horde of sentinels are still waiting to get to Zion. Those of you who believe Zion was destroyed probably thought that these were sentinels who had reached Zion already, and had also had enough time to utterly destroy every marking, every indication that Zion had ever existed, and left only bare rock walls in its place.
Another thing to think about: Morpheus says displays surprise after talking with Neo, because he expected the war to be over. If Zion is destroyed, the war is over, yet he isn't surprised because he found that Zion is destroyed (because it isn't) but rather that there are still machines lining up to get to Zion. Do you think there would be one, well-ordered, perfectly operating hovercraft left in the Earth's core to rescue them if there had been a battle for survival in Zion? Stop telling people that Zion is destroyed.
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Just had to say it: Zionpalooza... I crack my self up! Felt up to this point the movie dragged a but, but then, with the Burly Brawl, I was rivetted
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It was great, however, it was basically 10 minutes of plot with an hour and 55 minutes of action scene crammed into it.
As opposed to the review in the main article, I feel there was virtually NO character development. You get a new take on the Oracle and a bit of a view of how the Matrix functions, to some degree, but other than that, there's really not much of anything going on. It's all action after action after action after action.
Then again, the sentinel thing at the end was quite the interesting surprise.
As far as an action movie it was awesome...
however, the fight scenes were NOT as awesome as they were made out to be before hand. The car chase was NOT as awesome as it was made out to be beforehand (in fact, some of the scenes in the car chase that were in the trailers, were not actually IN the movie...)
"Champagne for my real friends - and real pain for my sham friends!" http://ericblade.postalboard.com/
Matrix 3 - Neo wakes up feeling like shite, looking like shite and swearing never to eat those damned shite mushrooms again :-)
especially given her husbands hobby of creating exotic foods, that do strange things to the people who eat them, Causing them ot do things, without the ability to choose not too. greek legend tells of persephone eating 6 of 12 pomegranit seeds, causing her to spend 6 of the 12 months of the year traped, married to hades. the other 6 are spent in the gardens of earth, when seperated from her mother, demeter, the mother weeps, and the trees, and skies weep with her - winter.
Suppose that what we are going to discover in the third film, is that all that was left of the REAL "real world", was a computer and the DNA of an extinct society of humans that was discovered by alien life, and used as an archeological experiment to find out about what humans were like.
SKIP AHEAD
Now suppose for a moment, that all human religion, philosophy, culture and education were programming attempts by "GOD" to keep humans from repeating the mistakes that led to their being wipe out the first time around.
I could be wrong, but I suspect that should NEO be successful and find the true "exit" from the Matrix, he will find himself either alone with a computer, or surrounded by aliens who have been working to free him for thousands of years.
Yeah, I'm taking bets.
that the "candy" the Oracle gave Neo, and that she herself ate looked like a little red pill?
...were the upper torso's rounder and chunkier than most takes?
That aside, I loved the set pieces. So this is what Jet Li would look like with more money. Keanu Reeves scenes in particular really went up a grade. I think I've watched too many kung-fu movies, but I always find the non-trained actors (even ones as extensively trained as Carrie Ann-Moss and Fishburne) looking a bit slow, first Matrix included. But Keanu upped the ante a lot. he could cinematically face Jet Li.
I too was lucky enough to see it last night. I thought it was very good. It explores more into the characters. It has many twists. Every new scene pops 10 new questions in your mind. It explains more then the first one (the story goes deeper), but it also raised much more questions. Stunts where excellent, great car chase, awesome fight scenes. I'll definitely have to whatch it again to understand some parts I missed. Congratulations to them, they did a great job, I loved it. Can't wait for revolutions.
Here we go again!
architect@matrix$ su - /home/zion /pron /pron /usr/bin/neo /pron /usr/bin/trinity /home/architect /usr/bin/persephone > /dev/NULL
Enter password: *******
root@matrix# rm -rf
root@matrix# mkdir
root@matrix# wget http://goatse.cx/hello.jpg
root@matrix# mv hello.jpg
root@matrix# mv
root@matrix# mv
root@matrix# mv
root@matrix# exit
architect@matrix$ exit
Connection closed by foreign host.
Thats a good idea but would be too close to The Thirteenth Floor (which has been pointed out elsewhere today) where this idea has already been done. If the the brothers W decided to go with this story line I fell it would let the whole thing down.
To err is human, to arr is pirate.
--SLIGHT SPOILER--
One funny thing I noticed:
In the scene where the Architect is talking to Neo (with all of the TV screens), when the Architect is talking about all of the atrocities (I think that's the word he used) that the humans have committed, as soon as he says the word "atrocity," a picture of George W. appears on the screens behind him. Coincidence? I think not.
"After seeing the Matrix last night, now it all makes sense." This comment made by a anonymous movie fan of Baltimore, MD after discovering that the creator of the Matrix was in fact Colonel Sanders of KFC (Formally the place that sold chicken). "Neo entered that glowy room and wow I knew why I had been hooked on those 11 herbs and spices. That also explains why after some people didn't accept the 22 ingredients, KFC merged with Taco Bell and then A&W (at select locations) to form the mega fast food conglomerate." The anonymous fan also urged for those who have not seen the movie to not let this be the spoiler that other more enlightening post Armageddon cheese would surly have you believing that you to have been duped.
Everyone knows the SSH version 1 protocol is subject to attack. Use SSH protocol version 2, people.
Actually, this looks a bit like a script kiddie tool, a unix login, and a Cisco access control. Fortunately, the sfx guy tasked for this screen wasn't a total noob showing us a scandisk screen or something.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Though I probably missed it. If this is discussed elsewhere, sorry.
A number of questions are often asked about The Matrix, usually more as attacks against it than as actual wonderings. Doesnt the whole thing violate thermodynamics? Why use humans at all? Why not gentically engineered flesh-sacs with heartbeats? Why do they need to view the Matrix "in code form"? Wouldnt it by its very nature be easier to see if the computer converted it to the images it sends to the brain?
All of this is answered in one line: "There are levels of existence we are willing to except"
It isnt the body's heat (though there's no reason why they couldnt also harness it just so that it doesnt go to waste) the machines want, it's their conciousness. More specifically, they're sub-concious. The Matrix isnt a world created by a machine, rendered, and shot into the person's eyes. It exists as it does only in the human mind. The machines link the minds together, send various information into the brain, and all that information is assembled by the conciousness into the Matrix as all experience it. That's why you can bend a spoon- the spoon doesnt exist anywhere at all outside of human conciousness. There's no machine anywhere carefully chugging away keeping track of what a spoon looks like, all it needs to say is that a spoon exists.
All these AI's, on the other hand, are just tagging along for the ride. They skip from conciousness to conciousness, sometimes pushing the other person out of the way temporarily, and always doing something very important: existing.
In this movie we see that the AIs care about living and experiencing, and they can be petty and frail, or at least they could be at one point.
All these "older versions" of the Matrix, in which Agents would be stand-alone programs and travelled by way of back-doors instead of jumping into a person..
And then my friends tell me to shut up when I talk about how Neo reallocated Agent Smith's swap space, thus allowing Agent Smith to understand the concept of memory allocation. Just because it's bullshit doesnt mean it's not true!
Anyway, stopping here to allow others to speak.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
...but your rhetorical question champions the ignorant by characterizing those in the know as elitists. Let's put it this way: If I unilaterally, spontaneously attacked Matrix fanboys for being dumbshits, then, yes, I'd be an elitist. But, after hearing the umpteenth, longwinded attempt to discern the Matrix's metaphysical message (which inevitably concludes with the most primitive, pre-Platonic revelation, such as "how do we know that perceived reality is real?"), I've fucking had it. Someone has to tell these people how silly they sound, and I'm not too proud to be that guy.
Attention Matrix fanboys: Be forewarned that your lip-flapping attempts to fill in the Matrix's metaphysical gaps will put the thinking world on notice that you slept through life's lessons on basic metaphysics.
If these so-called fanboys want to draw a bunch of conclusions about life and its meaning from a movie, what of it? You're simply coming across as yet another uptight nerd who makes up for his shortcomings by seeking out reasons to cross your arms, snicker, roll your eyes, and call people dumb.
Take a deep breath, relax, and stop concerning yourself about people treading on your educated opinions. You studied, you know. Good for you. Now shut up about it.
So long, michael. Don't let the door hit you...
Arrgggggg. This post brings back the memories of spending a half a semester on just the introduction to the Critique of Pure Reason. Our professor was truly convinced that the synthetic a priori was superceded in greatness only by the invention of sliced bread.
I completely understand the idea of time invested in a philosophical ideas. Saul Kripke's Naming and Necessity took MANY hours of my life. I still pick it up now and again and always understand something new. The same goes for most of John Searl's work and of course the classics. The older I get, the more I realize that more time needs to be spent on all these past ideas. No matter what I would have said as a pompous student, I know now that I did NOT get it. I will undoubtedly say the same 20, 30, and 50 years from now.
Given that the Robots have had the humans in pods for atleast 500 years, I wouldn't doubt it if the Robots knew how to overwrite the synapses in the brain.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
Yeah, but Neo isn't actually a human, is he? He's a construct just like the Oracle, the Architect, the Frenchie, dead twins and the Smiths, right? So if he is a program but he actually has free will then he could stop the sentinals in the 2nd level Matrix (reality?) and may actually be escaped into the next level of reality while he is in the coma. Or, since he overrode his programming by stopping the sentinals the system may have deactivated his account, putting him into the coma. Just my $0.02.
Er, the movie doesn't specifically state that the sentinels are not attacking zion itself when they fly through the "ruins" of another zion. But it also doesn't explicitly state that zion is under attack, something I'm sure they would have mentioned.
If you recall, near the end of the movie, the machines eventually drilled their way through to Zion. Of the ships that had been positioned to counter-attack the machines, one EMP'd prematurely and disabled 5 other ships leaving Zion practically defenseless. I may have missed something, but I do believe they mentioned that after this skirmish, the machines gave Zion a pass and kept digging further down. Where are they headed, then? To the earth's core? I think this may be an important point in the third movie that got unintentionally glossed over in this one. (There was a LOT going on at this point in the movie.)
Why design all this complexity and all this effort to keeping humans CONSCIOUS?
The robots are still trying to break RC5 encryption.
Non impediti ratione cogitationus.
if you want a mind-fuck - should link Morpheus to the machines...at the end of the day who is the one that gives the people hope. The oracle? not really, it's morpheus' conviction in the oracle, the prophecy and the way things ought to be that leads the story on. wonder what the humans would do without morpheus...contrived hope and choice...
....real power vs. perceived
not to mention the basic fact that he is the one "human" that constantly talks like the programs, would be interesting to compare his dialogue to the first one but frankly probably not worth the effort...
running with morpheus as the center piece - power of the priest vs. the relgion, morpheus vs. oracle/prophecy
power....again not a new concept and your hit over the head with it...
spoiler & thoughts
twins were wasted - such a cool concept and character and they lasted what 8 mins, the rave scene was longer, pointless superman flying scenes were longer...what a waste - one new interesting character and not even leveraged..
every action sequence was shown in the trails
matrix within a matrix (world within a world) is not an original concept and more importantly not worth a 4 year wait, plenty of much "simpler" movies (MIB, 13th floor, dark city, etc..) have exploited the same thing...(whats next snowboarding infront of an avalanche scene, thats only been done 3 times so far...)
the roles reversed (humans are actually the machines and machines the humans - experiment in AI approaching humanity, etc...) is interesting but again been done and rather bland considering the wait and effort placed into the flick - only interesting thing here is figuring who is who...
latex chick (cannt remember her name) was cool and the possibilities are endless as to where she falls - was just curious about one thing - she turns over the key maker, and basically waltzs out of the room through her now pissed off husband and his group of fighters...would you let her waltz out?
religous undertones galore...would be interesting to know more about the brothers religous beliefs but again probably not worth the effort of exploring...if your sending us a message about the blind control relgion has on people and society (without them realizing it), and the fake sense of hope if provides your a bit late, those that don't understand that yet aren't going to get it from this movie...
could have edited 20-30 mins out of the movie by just not explaining everything tiny thing to the audience, would have at least caused the need for some thought...
"to be concluded" - your kidding right? I'd agree with someone's earlier comment, most of us would probably have walked into the sequel at 2am if it was offered; but come on arent there better ways of flowing between movie 2 and 3, be concluded ending seems the domain of the "pepsi movie challenge"...
all in all -
I was hoping for the end-all-be-all of sci-fi and movies in general, something that raises the bar on all fronts and redefines what we expect from hollywood. Probably an unrealistic expectation to begin with but this movie/franchise had all the components to pull it off. Oh well we wait some more.
A portion of the movie was visually appealing (was hoping for more visual appealing without resorting to breasts & hot women) - but I'm hoping that some twists lands in the last one that makes this whole serious worthwile.
At this point the first one stands on its own significantly stronger and more impressive then the first and second combined...
-lm
Neo, you must choose; either a burrito with red sauce or with green.
If you choose the red sauce, you will forget about the burrito and accept that the burrito you've always known is and always will be the same.
But if you choose the green sauce, you will be taken deep in to the world of burrito potential. A tangy sauce that may or may not go well with sour cream.
The choice is yours Neo.
As someone who essentially (though not officially) minored in philosophy I can assure slashdot readers that:
1) Not all philosophers are elitist assholes, though some of them are.
2) Not all philosophy is worthless masturbation but some of it is.
3) The Matrix has nothing particularly interesting with respect to philosophy, it is essentially a retread of the story of christ, and the idea that Descartes had about dreams vs reality.
The most interesting philosophy courses I took were from Michael Bishop. His classes were thought provoking and relevent to everyday life. (Hi Mike!)
The most interesting philosophy, to me, is philosophy of science, and philosophy of economics. The essential questions are what should we consider as rational reasons for making decisions about the world? How should we evaluate theories that others create? Why should we study science, or human action, and what constitutes the best types of scientific studies and discourse.
Notice that the Matrix is not particularly relevent to any of those issues.
((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) http://www.endpointcomputing.com a scientific approach to custom computing.
I saw the movie last night, good flick. However, there's one scene where there are *a lot* of small televisions. One of the characters is discussing the great evil in our history, and the monitors depicted many evil acts and a few villans. However, I also noticed that President Bush actually received more 'monitor' space than Hitler and Ayatollah Khomeni. A blatent political statement?
What those who want activist courts fear is rule by the people.
I suspect that the lack of Nietzsche, Plato, and Aristotle in your education had more to do with your particular institution and the professors in it than anything else. The problem with many philosophers is that they often get shuttled between departments depending upon the politics between the instructors. I was a politics (poli sci at other schools) major, and we studied all three that you listed far more than we ever approached Marx (Kant and Hegel were also in the mix). I asked about the lack of Marx (relative lack) a couple times, and was told that he had been far more influential in x (pick one: Economics, History, Sociology) than in Politics. :-) I always found that funny, but...
The split up is probably due to the impossibility of introducing more than a smattering of Big Ideas (TM) that these fellows discussed and having any hope of a shred or two sticking in the minds of the students.
As far as the inability to admit to totally wasting ones time, that is a well documented psychological fact. It is a trait of humanity that is exploited well by bosses and politicians.
"I think we should tax people who stand in water! " - Mr. Gumby
*** SOME SPOILER STUFF ***
*** SOME SPOILER STUFF ***
*** SOME SPOILER STUFF ***
Here are two things that no one's brought up yet. Any thoughts?
CandyMan: Neo accepted a piece of candy from the Oracle. Was this akin to the cake that the blonde ate in the resteraunt? Though it wasn't shown in the same detail (thank goodness!), it could be a program that altered his choices for the rest of the movie. Maybe this is why "The One" isn't like the others.
If you remember Neo's first encounter with the Oracle, you'll remember that he took a cookie. Same premise?
Religions 'R Us: Here's one more likeness of Neo to religious lore. In one scene Trinity is seated, looking up in the air. She holds Neo in her arms; his body limp and lifeless. This is the exact image of a classic sculpture depicting Jesus and some lady. (I wish I could remember which one, but the last time I looked at stuff like that was in High School!) Uncanny, isn't it?
-James
The action was amazing. You can see the crouching tiger hidden dragon influence in it. It doesn't have the grace and beauty of crouching tiger, but the amazing use of weapons, the speed of movements, and the fight scenes which are more than the enemies lining up 1 by 1 really show an attention to detail. Also, the use of the special powers of the certain enemeis is very well done. Not just using the ability to pass through material to be completely invincible, but using it on and off, to get into vehicles, and being restricted by not being able to use it because it would cause them to leave the vehicle. Being forced to use it to protect themselves but then not being realizing their objective because they used it.
Second, the plot. It's pretty strait forward w/ a huge bend at the end. Machines are digging. We need to stop them. Of course at the source it makes a u-turn. Not bad but not Spirited Away.
The philisophical portion. Well, of course it isn't Plato, or Aristotle. But the movie asks some very valid and fundamental questions, (which it attempts to answer). 1. Do we have free will? Not just in the matrix but anyone. 2. Are machines in control of humans, or will they be? While the philisophy students may complain that the explanation is to conveluted or that the movie is full of double speak (which it really is), they do ask those questions and they try to answer them. There is a very real, (as opposed to perceived), level of philisophical questioning in the movie though it is not well intertwined in the plot IMO as it has to be explicitly stated.
I do security
Man, you were tired.
What the original poster is referring to is the sequence in which Smith embeds his persona onto the hacker and then answers the phone, getting sucked down the line and into the "real world"...
As for the Sentinels -- no, that was Neo in the "real" world...
I use the quotes because as the Architect explained at great length, that Zion and the whole human rebellion is merely another layer of the Matrix to give the 1% of humanity that can't accept reality a place where they think they are in a "real" world, making "real" changes...
The Architect specifically tells Neo that he's there to bring the cycle to an end and restart it from scratch -- walk through the one door and it all ends, you pick a new batch of men and women to start a new Zion, and it all recycles. You walk through that other door and it's all out war and the 250,000 humans of Zion will die, along with the rest of the human race, because the Matrix will collapse from its own inconsistency.
This is why the Oracle knows everything Neo and everyone else is going to do before it happens -- it's already happened 6 times before! (as per the Architect) -- and each time, the "One" has selected to walk through the door and set things in motion again (this is the control system used to counteract humans' tendencies toward choice). Where Neo differs is that he is not acting like the "Ones" that have come before him. He opts to risk everyone and everything to know the truth and to bring the war to an end.
blog |
As I stated in an earlier post in this thread, the Architect basically spelled out that Zion and the "real world" are an onion layer of the Matrix. That's why Neo was able to sense and act on the squiddies.
blog |
The meaning of what you have to say is inversely proportional to the amount of words required to express it completely.
Philosophy is supposed to help the human mind comprehend the world. Thus a philosophy, rightly or wrongly, needs to operate withing the limitations of a human mind of average intelligence.
At the very least you need to be able the explain you philosophy it to the people of average intelligence who are paying you to think it up.
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
Didn't the whole Sex/Orgy Scene totally look like it was taken directly from that Nelly music video "Number One"? Blah.
"there is no truth, there is only you, and what you make the truth"
So, you came to see "Stunning Gunfights and Brilliant Martial Arts" (violence is good) but instead got a "Huge Primal Orgy" (sex is bad).
But you're really disappointed due to lack of "Philisophical Values" (we needs guns...lots of guns)?
this is funny to me
-buzz
... ...
I know you are psychotic, but please make an effort.
Not only that, but one of them (on the rescuing ship, don't remember who) says that they massacred the fleet and kept right on drilling. It would seem rather odd that they would continue to drill past Zion.
I agree with you - I don't think Zion has been destroyed. But I also don't think that the Zion and the real world we have seen are in fact real. My theory right after I saw it goes with many other people's theories - there are several layers of Matrices, and now Neo and Smith are awake in the next layer. Smith said he was freed - was he freed from the next layer in? Are agents actually real people in a deeper level of the matrix? Did Neo free Smith to the first matrix we saw, then Smith got out to the 'real world'? Many things are possible with how they left it.
You missed the part where the avatar cuts himself on the hand and tries to kill neo in zion. It was a subtle hint that smith is in zion. His wounds healed, because he could control his new host and the world.
It's the environment. As soon as I saw the doors the ships have to fly into, I started going "Wait, they've been down here HOW long?" Zion just has too many resources to have been there only 100 years with a small population. How did they build a gigantic fortress-city, and dozens of antigrav ships, in 100 years? Ok they didn't have to invent the tech, they scrounged parts from the surface. Even so, the amount of carved rock, and then stuff on the engineering level... It's too much for that small a population to have built in that time. Not while they were working up from "16 women and 7 men" as the architect describes.
So, either the machines pre-rebuild Zion (or pre-build if it's a different location each time), or it's fake. The different location thing bugs me because while yeah there's alot of tunnels, they fly around the damn tunnels all the time. It's too likely one of the ships would have stumbled onto it by now if there were ruins of multiple cities underground.
Also Smith's copying himself into other people seems to be a hint, unless this turns into The 13th Floor again.
An interesting thing is who knows and who doesn't know. I don't think any of the humans know, except Neo who now suspects. The Architect obviously knows, and probably the Oracle and the other guy who constantly refers to "Your predecessors." (gee subtle hint there?) I think the Agents in general DON'T know, except Smith, who's figured it out.
Introducing the new Occam Fusion! Now with sqrt(-1) fewer blades!
KFC (Formally the place that sold chicken)
/., but it keeps getting worse and I feel like I need to do something."
FORMALLY is how you are dressed when you go to your prom.
FORMERLY is how you describe a condition that once existed but now no longer exists, as in "I was formerly not such a grammar/vocabulary pedant on
"Something" being correcting people in an attempt to slow the decline of coherent posts. Otherwise pretty soon this place will make as much sense as the imbecilic banter in the average AOL chat room these days:
"ANY GIRLS TRYNA CHAT TO A 18/M HOLLA"
It is possible the French man is the first One and simply refused assimilation. He says he has survived Neo's predecessors.
I presume the Oracle (or rather, her new form) in Revolutions will explain all that we saw in Reloaded. Joel Silver warned that people would be "confused as hell."
"Sufferin' succotash."
If you are a regular, non-elitist, kung fu fight loving person like me, go see the movie. It was funny, well written, and easily the best sci-fi movie to come out in years (since the first Matrix, in fact). Movies are movies, no perfection is possible, so if you want perfection don't EVER go see a movie. However, if you are looking for some laughs and a far better than your average movie, go see Matrix: Reloaded.
Matrix: Reloaded is PART 1 in a 3 part series. Juding it alone is like judging your dinner by the salad. This movie provides the bridge between the first movie and the last(?) movie, and until the trilogy is complete, we don't know JACK.
And for the snobbish, boring, elitest wankers who harp about special effects and Psy101 crap, go blow it out your ear. IT'S A MOVIE, you dickweeds, nothing more, nothing less.
And it is a damn good one too. Or do you all want to go back to hacker/sci-fi movies like Hackers and Swordfish? Go see this movie to remind the studios that people like intelligent, well written movies, instead of whatever is hip with the newest Dawson's Creek actor.
My question is, are the assholes bitching about pointless stuff TRYING to get good movies canned? Or are they just assholes?
"/. =
For those of you who have seen the movie you know I am not making this up. I am surprised I did not see a Taco Bell inside Zion.
It was destroyed in the third invasion of Zion.
Read Errant Story.
You and I are saying the same thing, but approaching it from different angles. I have been saying all along that the Matrix is a story that was told (IMO, in a superior way) in the past, many times over. My point all along has been that the fanboys act as if the Matrix is the first instance of that revelation, just because it's the first time that they've experienced it. This would be excusably, really, except that any 20+ year old person that needs the Matrix to challenge the truth of their 'reality' is painfully late in the game.
Yeah, I saw that. My friend swears he saw a short clip from Bill and Ted. I'm watching for that one next time I go.
What people are missing is that quite a bit of the storyline can be seen in the Video Game... the game is pretty much a 3rd movie. It picks up from the Final Flight of the Osiris and follows the 2nd movie with a different cast.
Here is the CNN article
What? No! Not troll, this time I was stating a perfectly valid counterpoint! you people just dont understand at all.
-- 'The' Lord and Master Bitman On High, Master Of All
Saw it last night, and I've had a chance to sleep on it and let my opinions settle a bit.
... c'mon. CG is good, but it just looks video gamey. Some of the moves were WAY cool, though, but nothing that beats an old Jackie Chan flick.
.... 100 neurotic Agent Smith clones attacking Neo with their endless self-doubt and witty criticism ... hheheeheheh ....
The love scene: At least Trinity didn't come running to Neo across a field of flowers ala Padme & Anakin.
Neo vs. Smith, Smith, Smith, and Smith: uh
Car chase: I would have enjoyed it much more played at full speed all the way through, instead of constant interruptions by slo-mo segments. The editing seemed kind of brute force in that respect: "Hey, something cool is happening here so pay attention, we're gonna slow down so you don't miss it."
Zion, the city: hey, I liked Zion the underground CG city. I've read several reviews bashing Zion for being goofy looking, but it looks just like every other metropolis buried at the center of the earth that I'VE been to.
Dialog: hit-or-miss. Nothing made me cringe, after all this is a sci-fi adventure movie, not a Woody Allen film. Although now I'm picturing The Matrix: Reloaded as directed by Woody Allen
The ending, to all who express dismay at the cliffhanger-ness of it all: were you people not paying attention? It was SUPPOSED to be a big time cliffhanger. geez.
Overall: please see it on a big screen! Some of the action sequences just won't hold up on your 19" TV. And see it in a decent setting, with good sound.
I give it a 6 out of 10. For reference, I'd give the first Matrix an 8. AoTC was a 2.
There are too few gentlemens out there, thank you for your help Sir. :)
Regarding your Math,
The Iterator you use seems to break down on the third iteration.
1750 morphs into 8750 and then 43,750 morphs into 218,750 after halving and then magnifying by a factor of 10.
So taking i(n) = i(n-1)*0.5*10 where n is the current iteration and n-1 the previous result. Also, 0.5 is a constant variable for women and each woman able to generate 10 healthy offspring in a single life span less than 100 years.
It seems more like:
12 * 0.5 * 10 childen = 60 ppl
60 * 0.5 * 10 = 300 ppl
300 * 0.5 * 10 = 1500 ppl
1500 * 0.5 * 10 = 7500 ppl
3750 * 0.5 * 10 = 18,750 ppl
18,750 * 0.5 * 10 = 93,750 ppl
93,750 * 0.5 * 10 = 468,750 ppl
So it looks like somewhere within the 6th generation the number exceeds 250,000.
Regarding "THE CHRISTOS and BUDDHA": Both would be equivalent from an Occult perspective and note I said, "THE CHRISTOS" not Jesus Christ which is in itself a bastardization of the term THE CHRISTOS since it is a title bestowed upon an enlightened human being, not "The Son of God" as so the dying pantheon of Christianity proclaims. What The Christ and Buddha have in common is the representation of Suffering. For rebirth to occur the third chapter in the saga would have to represent War of the Conquering Child which NEO equivalently represents--a completely necessary and neither Christ Like nor Buddhistic approach but one of a Horus stance. Horus being the third representation of the Osisis-Isis-Horus pathway. The Crowned and Conquering Child who is the God of War and Meditation.
I expect the World of Illusion to to be what it is--a unique and individualistic changing of reality that will take more than 6 generations to occur, to say the least since it doesn't happen on a Global scale but a Local/Individual scale.
I have yet to see the latest matrix but from what I can clean, the topic of primary concern is free will. I'm a philosophy major at a university on the west coasts and the states and free will is a quesiton of the utmost importance, basically there are three schools of thought running behind free will. The first is we have to have it because of X, Y and Z. The second is that it does not exist because of A, B and C and the final school of thought, which I'm much more inclined to agree with is, it is impossible for us to ever know. Immanuel Kant was the first philosopher, that I know of, to speculate on the limits of our knowledge. Basically he says that both schools of thought are in fact when we attempt to overstep cognitional limits.
Now, the question that you may be asking is, how does this pretain to the matrix? To me it pretains in that the matrix is merely a presentation of an idea that forces you to think. There is no Truth merely a set of ideas that potentially explain how the world operates. I believe that modern science presents evidence with things such as the Hsienberg/Uncertainty Principal. If we know the position then we can't know the momentum and vice versa, and if we could know both then we could predict where every sub-atomic particle has and will ever be thus in a recursive nature we could predict where everything has been and will be. I think that in itself supports the both and answer of free will, ultimately what that leaves us with "What's the point?". Which raises the question which is more important the quesiton or the answer. I believe the quesiton is important and not the answer, and the matrix gives you the opportunity to think.
>(Without reading that paper, I'd guess:) Life's what seems to have meaning to us? Cool.
:)
No, it's deeper than that... insofar as I could grok it, he was saying that the Matrix is not real because the envatted Neo (etc) think it's real. If it were, then a psychotic who thinks that eg the CIA are in league with the martians to beam radio signals to him would be correct. It's.. ah hell, it's 8pm here and I'm just back from work; get into the paper, as I said it's heavy going in places but worth persevereing.
Enjoy!
"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." -- Goethe
Where I go to movies, you would get your ass kicked if you clapped during the movie. What is the point? It's not like the directors are sitting there appreciating your applause. Do people clap at home when they watch the DVD too? Human behavior can be so odd when you step back and look at it. Just go to a dance club and observe and analyze with that thought in mind; you'll see what I mean.
Have just watched the trailer for Revolutions as well as being inundated with opinions about Reloaded I've come to a conclusion. Smith is human.
1. Why is Smith the only Agent with any emotional expression? And why is he so insistant on "getting out of here", where the hell would he go anyway?
2. Why the hell is he BACK? (Extra life! W00t!) Yes other Agents return when "destroyed" but there's nothing to say that they are in fact the same Agent, maybe just another copy of the program gets loaded. Smith is far too individual.
3. Ok yeah, Zion/Reality is another Matrix, who didn't see that coming, but why exactly. Yeah it could be to catch the 1% who don't buy into the Matrix concept, but I have a different idea. I think its a war game. I think it exists because there IS some sort of actual rebellion and the Matrix/Reality simulation exists to aid the machines in finding a way to finally solve the human problem.
4. Given all that I think Smith is a human, forced by the machines to live in the simulate Matrix/Reality to find a way to defeat the rebels by winning essentially a war game.
About Revolutions:
Based on the trailer it looks pretty highly possible that the machines or Smith do find a way to defeat the Real humans but are surprised to see that Neo (of Matrix/Reality) turns on them, joining the ranks of the Real humans (One line: "He fights for us."), most likely with the knowledge that he himself is unreal.
Just conjecture, but if I'm right I'm gonna be pissed.
...was a little TOO long, IMHO. It's like, "Okay, I GET it! Neo and Trinity are banging! Can we see some more fighting, please???"
So was this accurate?
There is no Adam and Steve, no Eve and May, no chicks with dicks, no biker chicks with V6 dildoes, druggies, or any other such deviancy.
... i will never complain about star wars episode I or II. i thought it was that bad.
First of all, the good stuff:
The effects are pretty cool. Great fight sequences. Lots of action. Yes, more of the classic Matrix effect, but done more aggressively and with good impact.
The general storyline is heading in what I view as a fairly interesting (but ultimately predictable) direction. The theme is worthy of real science fiction.
Now, on to the not so good stuff.
At two different points in the film, the story is advanced by two individuals explaining what is going on with a long monologue. These monologues break the action and create unnecessary pauses. I think they represent poor screenplay, because if the movie were really done well, you wouldn't need to stop the action and explain what is going on.
There is a very clumsy set of editting near the end of the film where three teams go off in different directions. The action is very muddled on screen.
At least one major event occurs off screen, and we only hear about it second hand.
There is one long techno dance sequence that makes me think I'm watching a Zima commercial.
Overall, I give the film a B. It delivered what I went to see. The irritations are nowhere near as bad as watching the love scenes in Episode II.
Go, geek out, enjoy.
There is much pleasure to be gained in useless knowledge.
I went to the 10:01 p.m. show last night ... and it was booed at the very not-quite-an-end ending. I payed full price for half of a movie. In addition, there were severy unnecessary quasi-pornographic scenes. I would not take my girlfriend or anyone who I see as very pure to see it. But it sucked so much I might not go see the next one anyways.
Re: The cake scene- This is kind of farfetched, but it's possible that the cake scene was there to introduce the idea of food as a control program. Both times we see Neo visit the oracle, she gives him something to eat(a cookie the first time, and a little red candy(pill?) the second time).
I Love being a programmer. Took an extended lunch and went to a matinee. Short line, the theatre was half full. They(Regal cinema) screwed up the sound on the reel change so they gave everyone another ticket.
Any way the movie was excellent. Good plot. Good mix of slow story telling and fast action scenes. Some weird gothic references(ghosts,werewolves).
Go see it in a loud theatre with a big screen. My home theatre system is better than Regals, Can't wait to buy the DVD;)
Science is the Real TRUTH!
From reading various reviews and comments here, it seems like there are gratuitous sex and/or nudity scenes in the movie that really are embarrassing or such. Is this true, in your opinion?
(Hi Mike!)
Hi!
Oh, wait, you were talking to that Bishop guy? Sorry.
--Mike
1) I like the way it started--no credits or anything, just the TW & Roadhouse logos (green & fuzzy, of course), the name of the movie, and right into the action. good way to start.
2) I personally felt that the love scene between Neo and Trinity was a little overboard, and that a lot more could have been said with a much more subtle approach.
No way. I was hoping for Titanic-quality nudity, at least. >:-> So close, yet so far...
Dear Slashdot: next time you want to mess with the site, add a rich-text editor for comments.
The Zion scenes were pretty terrible. A lot of people seem to be complaining about the rave/sex scene (which didn't bother me mostly because the music reminded me of the classic Frankie Goes to Hollywood "Two Tribes" extended mix), but I was grinding my teeth through all the scenes with the angry commander guy and the dopey council people. There was so much eye-rollingly lame crap to sit through, most of it felt like a bad Star Trek episode. Shitty acting, lousy script, poor direction. Even the set design in Zion seemed weak... it looks like it was all designed to be grungy and hip circa 1995. And I notice they have beautiful high-tech air-traffic control centers, but apparently no one in Zion's ever heard of a freakin' washing machine. You'd think the Chosen One could get a little laundry service.
I even thought some of the fights were tiresome. Big deal, Neo slapfighting somebody... it may be nice choreography, but it's all clinical. The Burly Brawl is fun, but it's Morpheus' fight scene on the semi that's really worth sitting through the rest of the drek for. Great stuff.
I'm not saying the first Matrix script was a stroke of genius, either, but there was nothing in the second one that was as clever or fun as some of the bits in the first. And personally, I don't go for all the high school philosophy jibber-jabber... I appreciate that some people get a lot out of it or read a lot into it, but for me, it's a big freakin' yawn. Smoke some pot and read some Phillip K. Dick and get over it...
I hope someone does a "Phantom Edit" on this one!
i think that's george h.w., not george w.
blah blah blah posting delay.... done!
Ok, but I think that your problems are an artifact of your place of education, not the actual works you studied. Personally, philosophy study has taught me quite a bit about historical philosophical thought in a variety of realms and also modern controversies and the recovery from the now-widely-criticized Cartesian split. You can write all you want about how worthless your education was, but that is just it: it was your education. Philosophy is great, and I have learned more from philosophy (that I can apply to my actual life) than I have in any of my other studies, though I am a triple major (philosophy, German, psychology), as well as a professional technical writer, and contracting network administrator/web designer.
I can't reasonably hope to disprove your non-coginitivist claims about your personal experience, but if you want to talk about _facts_, you mentioned a few that seemed ludicrous to me:
Kant's Critique of Pure Reason is a behemoth, Marx's Das Capital[sic] has still never been completely read by any man alive today.
There is no disputing that the Critique is huge, and most scholars have noted that Kant's writing style is so convoluted that understanding it is a task far beyond simply reading it. However, the reason you did not learn about the Critique in you undergraduate program is because you would need to spend an extremely intense period of time studying it -- usually in a course during graduate school. Most undergraduate programs just have you read the Prolegomena to any Future Metaphysics, a simpler version of the same ideas, most notably the second Cartesian revolution and the Theoretical Unity of Apperception. So, just go to graduate school, or read the prolegomena.
Second, to say that Das Kapital has never been completely read by any man alive today is ridiculous, unless you mean only that it has never been fully understood by any man alive today, which is a question that is impossible to resolve. I would argue that it has been understood to its fullest logical extent in most general and particular contents by a great number of Marx scholars. Oh, and one more thing about Marx: I have never been forced to read Marx for an actual class, but have instead taken him on personally. This seems strange in one of the most thorough philosophy programs in the country, but as one of my professors said: we leave Marx for the less intelligent political science theorists.
Both books are bigger than all of Plato's writings combined. Das Capital[sic] is easily longer than all of Nietzsche's writings combined.
Ok -- this is just wrong. First, we don't have a lot of Plato's writings. Second, the Critique is NOT longer than all of Plato's KNOWN works combined for sure. The Critique is around 700 pages in a hardcover medium-type small-size edition. It really isn't that LONG, it is just amazingly thick.
And you must not be the Nietzsche scholar you would wish to be, or you would know that he wrote a TON -- cretainly more than Das Kapital. Here is a short list from the web: The Birth of Tragedy (1872) Untimely Meditations (1873-1876) Human, All Too Human (1878) The Dawn (1880) The Gay Science (1882-1886) Zarathustra (1883-1885) Beyond Good and Evil (1886) The Genealogy of Morals (1887) The Wagner Case (1888) Twilight of the Idols (1888) The Antichrist (1888), and Ecce Homo (1888). This doesn't even consider works like The Will to Power, one of the greatest works of postmodern philosophy. Anyway, you were obviously mistaken on a variety of levels for the facts, and I think this reflects well on your general views about philosophy as well. About some of the great works being "loads of crap," you cannot imagine the massive tomes of philosophy that took years to read, that have been summarily dismissed by the philosophical community. Of note is the history of pre-modern philosophy, in which bishops and cardinals spent their entire lives writing one philosophical work, almost none of which are studied in contemporary philosophy.
Anyway, that is the end of the lesson today =)...
-----[0_o]-----
We are not amused.
*no spoilers - just general commentary*
The Wachowski brothers did it again - literally. The kung fu action is just more of the same, and many of the bullet time effects and pans/dollys/etc. are put to use again. But then, it's the Matrix, why not? The 'burly brawl' scene is a lot of fun, and if you're not looking for it, it's hard to tell which characters are pure CG in some cuts, and which aren't. The car chase shown in the trailers is what makes the price of the tickets worthwhile though (if the slow spots put you to sleep, this will kick you in the ass and wake you up). There are time during the movie when there's so much spiritual talk you'd think you'd fallen into the middle of a hippie potfest, and it draaaags. But like any entertainment work, it must have a beginning, a middle, and an end. And as the middle piece in a trilogy they've done a fine job. Hugo Weaving could use some more screen time as Agent Smith, and Monica Belucci's character just seems to be an afterthought intended to draw in more horny 20-somethings.
Once again there's not a lot of character development, and more questions than answers (and answers that raise more questions), but it's a kung-fu/gun/video game come to life. What's not to like?
My expecations were way too high. It couldn't be helped. But I didn't walk out of the theatre feeling cheated.
It wasn't mind-blowing, but it was fun. And that's what I paid for... an afternoon of entertainment.
Worth the cost of a ticket.
Ebert: "The speeches provide not meaning, but the effect of meaning: It sure sounds like those guys are saying some profound things."
"That will not prevent fanboys from analyzing the philosophy of "The Matrix Reloaded" in endless Web postings."
Slashdot: One of the best after-effects of the first Matrix was the way it made you question your own take on reality. It really made you wonder what's real, and what's not.
Watching a professional critic talk about fanboys hanging on every line like it was deep philosophy and clicking over to read slash-shoppers hanging on every line like it was deep philosophy is the best part of these movies.
Well, that was pretty obtuse. Let's face it, many concepts in philosophy can probably not be understood by a layman unless they are given considerable background. Other concepts may require a great deal of setup in order to make a cogent argument. Still others may simply be beyond the grasp of persons of "average intelligence."
The validity of an argument in the abstract is not measured by my skill in presenting it to you.
I saw it last night. It was definitely part 2 of 3. It was not really a self-sustaining movie (at least by the standards of the first) so much as it was a gargantuan plot twist between the beginning and the end. Unlike Star Wars: The Empire Strikes Back, which had no need to hide from the viewer what was going on, The Matrix Reloaded is full of confusion that keeps it from really being its own movie. This really bothered some people. If Matrix Revolutions weren't coming out in six months, I'd be bothered too, but it is, so I'll deal with it. Of course, I still don't know what happened. The storyline seems to be disintegrating like Mulholland Drive. I guess I'll find out in November.
WARNING: there is a trojan on your
Ready for more of a mindfuck - what if Agents are second incarnations of people that have escaped the matrix? So, if there is the 1% that 'cant handle it' maybe some of them are handled by turning them into agents. :)
Hmm. A scene depicting love. That probably would add to character development. I was very impressed with the original Matrix for the lack of sex. I talked to a friend today who told me of the sex scene that bordered on pornographic, complete with porno music. I will not be seeing the movie until it shows on TV with that scene deleted. The MPAA's and RIAA's lack of moral sense bothers me far more than their fair use and consumer rights abuses.
The masses are the crack whores of religion.
Demonstrates the principle right here. Really big words: superficial, virtual reality, computer-based, artificial intelligence, linguistics, archeology, etc. Moron count: 4
Funny how some people will repeatedly read and nearly commit to memory Lord Of The Rings (or devote so much thought into The Matrix storyline) but never even consider reading The Bible.
That's because LotR is a better book.
Having a coherent/consistent story and being written by a single (very talented) author makes the world of difference.
Honestly, how can one expect intelligent people to dote on that load of contradictory, moralistic, badly-composed anthology of ancient hunter-gatherer fables?
Now, if you'd asked if people'd prefer to read the Dune series or the bible, I think the "Good Book" would win out.
Maybe. Are we including "Chapterhouse Dune"?
"This is why the Oracle knows everything Neo and everyone else is going to do before it happens -- it's already happened 6 times before! (as per the Architect) -- and each time, the "One" has selected to walk through the door and set things in motion again (this is the control system used to counteract humans' tendencies toward choice). Where Neo differs is that he is not acting like the "Ones" that have come before him."
One problem... the Oracle predicted that Trinity would fall in love with Neo. This love is what causes Neo to act differently. So how'd the Oracle predict that if it'd never happened before?
"Mind, as manifested by the capacity to make choices, is to some extent present in every electron." -Freeman Dyson
"Excusable?" Excusable by *whom*?
Who are you to set the pace for someone's personal development?
I promise you there are plenty of worthwhile, self-aware people who didn't really figure themselves and their worldviews out until well after their 30s.
+++ATH0
"The validity of an argument in the abstract is not measured by my skill in presenting it to you."
No, but your own understanding of that which you purport to explain is directly relational to the ease and simplicity with which you can communicate it to others.
If you cannot convey a thought succinctly and comprehensibly, then how much of the original meaning are you really communicating? Less than complete - thus the initial statement does hold water, from a certain point of view.
SPOILER
Ok... what about Agent Smith?
Presupositions: Can't trust the Oracle 100% ie Oracle has an agenda
Isn't the One supposed to destroy the matrix? Don't we hear in the preview the Oracle telling neo to stop Smith or we all die?
Perhaps Neo's purpose was to meld his self with an agent to create the 'flaw' that will destroy the Matrix. In the first movie Smith was different then the other Matrixes because he took off his earpiece, etc
One of the key things overlooked, is that at the door to the Archtect, Smith was waiting there, perhaps he got mad and shot the keymaker because HE wanted to meet the Architect!
Just a thought
oh come on.. let's not forget.. the ORACLE!? *cough cough*
click here to incinerate homeless people
transcript:
... successful. ... successful.
testing ports on 10.2.2.2:
?? 1539 ports scanned but not shown are in state: closed
? state service<br>
/tcp open ssh<br>
?? exact matches for host
nmap run completed - 1 IP address (1 host up) scanneds
sshnuke 10.2.2.2 -rootpw="Z10N0101"
connecting to 10.2.2.2:ssh
attempting to exploit SSHv1 CRC32
?setting root password to "Z10N0101".
system open: Access Level (9)<br>
ssh 10.2.2.2 -l root
root@10.2.2.2's password:
copied from the screenshots at: http://cdslash.net/gallery/trinity
for one fact, and one fact alone...
Keanu Reeves didn't say...
Woah.
(Must give a review)
As someone who saw the original 27 times in the theater - yah, Reloaded fit the bill and blew my mind several times.
I cannot confirm nor deny the allegation or allegations you may or may not have just made
My major problem with philosophy is that most of the time it doesn't solve anything. The second thing is that most philosophy professors think they are real philosophers and act like tweed jacket wearing know-it-alls.
How many philosophy papers nowadays do you see that are collaborations between 2 or more philosophers? Very few. Philosophy have become a lone art done by professional students who think they are right no matter what. How many Philosophy departments have colloquiums? Very few mainly because philosophers value their own opinions and ideas so much they can barely talk to each other without it coming to fisticuffs. In Philosophy there is simply no way to determine a philosophical truth. Unlike mathematics the truth is in the proof, if you are wrong you admit it and get on with your life. Amaziningly you can actually learn from your mistakes. Well in Philosophy even if you are wrong you still think you are right. Philosophy is a dead end game and thats why its dying.
By the way I'd argue the very little progess philosophy has made in the past 50 years is because of logic. Philosophers like Carnap and Kripke have added huge amounts of work to the field of logic. And logic as become more and more mathematical in nature.
The best education consists in immunizing people against systematic attempts at education. - Paul Feyerabend
I think this is the crux of the argument against "the Oracle knew it all because she's done it before."
In this case things are definitely different. I say this not because of the Oracle or the Architect but because of the French guy who's name I can't remember. He comments that the previous Neos showed more respect. Clearly this Neo is fundamentally different than the past ones. It's also interesting to note that apparently the French fellow always tries to stop Neo and apparently always fails. You'd think he'd try something different...
If it's true that all this literally has happened before, I think the change is that, in the past, while Trinity has fallen in love with Neo, Neo hasn't fallen in love with Trinity. That's the big change. This allows the "Orcale has lived it before" theory an out: She predicted Trinity would fall in love with Neo, not vice versa. Maybe Trinity falls in love every time, but it's never mattered, before.
I still believe what I originally said, that the Oracle simulates people, and that's the source of her knowledge. But we have not yet been able to definitively rule out the "been there, done that" theory.
Remember when movies were good?
Sony ha
The scene I'm getting at is early in the movie. We suddenly see two human avatars in the matrix world, with a package. A asks B if he's OK, and A says he'll be alright. And that's what important is "this," a package. He gives it to B, and says, "after you." B picks up a nearby landline and is translated out of the matrix; he de-digitizes and the phone falls to the floor. As A picks the phone back up, Agent Smith comes around the corner, and does the virus copy job on him. When the phone next rings, the new Agent smith answers it, and also de-digitizes. The strong implication is that Agent Smith has just left the matrix for the "real" world. This person, I believe, is the "double agent" that set off the EMP to knock out Zion's defenses, and whom we see in sickback unconscious next to Neo in the Zion world at the end of the movie.
It is, I suppose, arguable that Agent Smith somehow ported himself to the brain of the unfortunate individual. But my gut reaction was that he had essentially just jumped digital worlds, and was now inhabiting a new avatar in the Zion-matrix rather than controlling a human in real space.
Near the end, didn't someone mention something about how the squiddies kept burrowing down through the current Zion? Is there already another 'Zion'?
I thought it sucked.... the movie had zero tension for me (unlike the first which was full of tension)....it's as if they forgot how to tell a story.
key bads:
1. too much pretentious secular humanist mumbo jumbo
2. giant pointless rave scene
3. orgasm cake
4. they break so many paradigms that ultimately it doesn't make sense.
Pardox is ok in sci fi but you have to follow a set of rules to have a believable universe.
5. neo is presented as an almost invincible superhero--hence no tension
6. when you find out that Zion has been extinguished, it has zero emotional impact. You simply don't care.
7. Zion costumes seem to be discarded from one of the less successful star trek spin offs. (Why do all future councilmen wear caftans?)
key goods:
1. car chase.
2. casting
3. effects... the only time I really saw the seams were near the end of the car chase
(HUGE SPOILERS HERE!!)
Okay then brainiac,
I thought this movie had plot holes a mile wide which led me to ask many questions:
* Why will the Matrix fail if Neo takes the door to save Trinity?
* Why can't Neo save trinity and then deal with the Architect - and take her with him to start the new Zion?
* Why does the Architect put Neo in so much danger if he is required to keep the matrix stable? Why not just kill him in Zion?
* Why does the Matrix need to use Zion to deal with the anomaly?
* How does having Neo start a new Zion temporarily fix the anomaly?
- If you can answer all of these without contriving the answers (i.e. only working from material in the script) I'm impressed. On the other hand, perhaps some of this will be explained in Revolutions... I'm not holding much hope though...
Perhaps you understood it because you didn't really think about it.
I'm sorry that sex, mostly tastefully done i think was a disturbance to you, but it was an R rated movie...and since violence no longer matters (anyone notice Wolverine's kill count in X2? and that was PG-13)- the Matrix series is by no means lighter on violence than others.
Mind you, I was perplexed when the future became Rave nation party central- but I understand it thematically. The preceding speech by Morpheus emphasized the fact that Zion was about being human, and the joy of life. Now, they could've had happy people holding hands, but instead they show an orgy of people ecstatic intercut with Neo and Trinity. Its humanity in more primal aspect- but clean and natural. These are two people in love making love, the phsyciality of enjoying life that no machine can ever mimic, even if it manages to mimic impulses. you missed the bit with chocolate, but that could be more about the basic impulses that programs can influence, but not control.
T&A? Sure, but that reaction has more to do with movie prudishness with nudity (and the assumption that naked means humping on the ground)- in women in general and god forbid men.
There was a time when sex was still considered a sacred act, and not dirty. It is a temple that they dance in after all. There is a difference sexuality as sensuality and sexuality as something that amounts to pronography. I take the former as the intent... Salon has a pretty good review with this take on it.
I don't think they pulled all this off, but I do think the W bros intended the movie as more than sensationalism and spectacle. I do distinctly prefer this to juvenile takes on sexuality.
::spoilers blah, blah...::
I don't think that Zion is in the Matrix. To me the evidence points in a different direction.
The Agent Smith - Neo relation
It is a bit hokey I'll admit, but Neo stuck around becase he refused to do what he was supposed to (die at the end of The Matrix). Agent Smith is still around for the same reason. So a link has been established that both this rogue program and Neo are bucking the system.
The next link is established at the very end of the movie. And I pointed it out in another post. Agent Smith is the only one who survived the attack on Zion. Yes, he is technically a machine/program and they might not have killed him because of that, but I think the "premature EMP blast" put him into his coma, and the Sentinels passed over him as dead. Neo on the other hand, is similar to our Agent friend in that he now has his powers outside of the Matrix, sensing the Sentinels' presence because he has become part machine/program. He uses an EMP blast (I am assuming here) to knock them out, and in the process put himself in a coma. No it isn't over-exertion stopping them, it is basically a low level form(at) of suicide.
The hand cutting
Now we come to the scene where Agent Smith is cutting his hand in Zion. The reason behind it is pretty obvious, but the implications are that he is human, not a software program. As evidenced by the fact that Neo was cut by stopping the sword in the fight with Frenchy's henchmen (does that make them French-men?). So if programs don't bleed one can assume that Agent Smith has succesfully left The Matrix and is in the real world. Otherwise he wouldn't be able to cut his hand.
Thats my take anyway...
"Never upset a goalie, getting hit with a blocker is an unpleasent experience - facemask or not." -Me
reloaded was awesome, mind blowing, and all that good stuff. I went and saw an early showing on wednesday with all the hardcore types (including 8 of us from blockbuster). Honestly, I had low expectations for it, seeing as how it had big shoes to fill, but it was very good. The graphics were awesome, the story was awesome (except the love bullsh!t) and it really made you think. One thing I may add... go see it trippin, it makes it far more interesting :)
see sig. see sig run. run sig run.
I just saw the movie and thought it was pretty decent. Not to hard to understand really. The only question I have is where can I get my hands on some of that cake.
Microsoft should hire me. I can write code that doesn't work faster than the guys they have doing it now.
I'm surprised that no one (in this thread) has mentioned the parallel of the human sexuality displayed to the sexual nature of the machines in the film... What with the program a chocolate cake blowjob and all... And the painful 'kiss me if you want to get the info' scene. They are contrasting the 'primal' nature of the humans with the machines - and then playing with this by having the programs becoming human (in behaviour and in physicality), and the humans becoming machines - plugs and software updates for skills etc.
Now, perhaps the van was hit earlier -- but I really don't recall it.
Anyone see the same thing?
Rich people are eccentric. Poor people are strange. Me, I'd be happy with odd.
The Matrix has nothing particularly interesting with respect to philosophy, it is essentially a retread of the story of christ, and the idea that Descartes had about dreams vs reality
dude, christ could fly? and kick the hell out of a thousand bad guys at one time? and made sweet sweet love to a hot chick? SWEET!
*runs off to find one of his two hundred bibles-as-southern-baptist-relative-gifts collecting dust in the attic*
This is my sig. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
Skipped work to see it today; now regret that decision. What a disapointment this movies is! The first one was amazing, but this one is totally crap. Seems like the brothers don't have enough content so they just jam the darn thing with lame filler scenes. The effects were really nice but then, there's so much more to the Matrix than just effects and fight scenes. Saw the trailer for next one, Revolutions; looks more promising than this one.
I posted these things before, and as much as I love karma, I'm doing it again 'cause I'm genuinely interested if anyone had this take:
I think its strange in a movie with so many takes at the fallibility of perception and versimilitude that people don't take seriously the possiblity that Neo has gained powers outside the Matrix, and insist that what he emerges in must be a second matrix. If he is the 6th iteration of an anomaly that gets stranger every time, why not? (I do take the 6 as a reference to the Mayan world epoch calender, any version number will do honestly). He has a connection to Agent Smith- another anomalous intelligence (artificial or otherwise) with insight to the system as a whole.
If we grudgenly accept the human as batteries thing, why can't Neo take his connection to machines wireless in the "real" world? Part of him still jacked into the matrix and therefore the system, and therefore the machines. Before you know it he can take them over...
Agent Smith can just as easily take over someone by taking over their code- the brain wiring. People are jacked in as brains, not bodies. When he envelopes the person in the matrix, he's refashioning their entire minds to fit his own. And when they wake up, they're agent smith. He should theoretically be disoriented in non-matrix real world, but if he maintains a kind of hive consciouness trhough a connect to the system (which he senses better than Neo, per their covnersations- a connection Smith acknowledges but Neo just likes to answer "I know" to everything. I don't think he does know.) perhaps he copes together as a Hive mind.
Considering the prophecy notions- taking the Melvigian (sp?) take on human behavior as pure human impulse through causality- you'd figure a lot of what anyone is planning ought to be able to be statistically predicted by the an architect, or any massive computer. Esp. if- more than being programs, as the Archtiect mentioned, even your checmical reactions in the body (DNA as source code) could be influenced. Its a fundamental paradox in the idea of an all-knowing Creator/God. What's the difference between an ineffable plan and predestination. And if there is a plan, which will always play out since God is an expert-what is the pt?
How it all pans out- choice vs. being controlled, is up to a personal view or the W bros. Considering the they're alive hopefulness of the Morpheus speeechs, I lean away from the Matrix within a Matrix/ Prisoner "Who is number one" take - though I admit its possibly. I just don't feel they'ed end it with a box inside a box endless loop of questioning.
neo is the first fully unpredictable person who manipulates the choices as well as the architect program. The no-win of the two doors turned into a win- or delay fo the endgame in the "real world."
I agree. I have learned more about absolute determinism from an article about Pascal's (ideal) all-knowing computational machine, than in years of studying phylosophy in high school (in my country we had philosophy in high school, in some gymnasiums).
Sigged!
What was up with the video screens in the room with the achitect ?
Either they were a representation of what was going on in Neo's head at that moment, or the images were made up, OR ( and this is the big one ) it was actually what happened in the 5 previous matrixes.
What's everyone else's take on this ?
First of all for those of you who have now seen it stop NOW! This is going to discuss the metaphysical aspects of the movie and spoolers will be included! First, The movie hands down what awesome, it gave me that feeling I got when I first watched "ESB" when the speeders were searching for Luke. Action and the reason we go to movies is Action. Second it contained the now best car chase scene displacing, Ronin and formally the Blues Brothers for adrenaline rush you get, and you ask how they got that shot, flying under the trucks while following the motorcycle! Fighting and the Virus Smith were also excellent concepts and ideas. The "Oracle" and the "Architect" were also interesting constructs and you do get the feeling that you know nothing but what you are being presented. The old programs that are kept around which are really nasty. Several Matrixes'! During the moving the "Architect" Says, that your skills are good but you are still human, to paraphrase, this seems to indicate that we are deep in the rabbit hole but not deep enough. Here is a list of Philosophical concepts that I saw: Fatalism Religion Mind/Body Reality Dualism AI Each one of these concepts/ideas were presented and several more in the movie and we are left with is obvious; we are still not awake.
Also cool is that the inscrutability of the various "friendly" programs in the Matrix mirrors that of Wintermute and Neuromancer in Neuromancer.
Let's get drunk and delete production data!
Speaking of which, the only thing that takes away from Reloaded in my opinion is the orgy scene, if I may call it that. I think it was much too long and allowed to much attention to be diverted away from Neo and Trinity. That scene needed to focus on those two and leave most (if not all) of the rest of it out and been about three minutes shorter. Let Neo and Trinity have their moment, let Neo have his dream, and get it over with... I could tell upon first viewing that I would probably be skipping that scene when I watch it on DVD months down the road.
Otherwise, the movie absolutely kicked ass. The Agent Smith teaser footage from the trailers was only the tip of the iceberg, and... well, it's a modern epic, bypassing the classic medium (literature) and jumping onto the big screen. I wouldn't compare the Wachowskis to Homer, Dante, or even Tolkien (not much, anyway), but they've put together quite a masterpiece for our time.
Great movie. 9.7/10.
(The Matrix still gets a perfect 10; Reloaded loses fractions of a point for the orgy scene and for slight cheesiness and predictability -- nothing to worry about. This movie rocked, and only Lord of the Rings films, Office Space, The Shawshank Redemption, and American Beauty otherwise get 9's on my scale...)
By "they" the poster means humanity.
Read as: (emphasis mine):
If humanity can't see the sky humanity can't calculate the positions of the stars. If humanity can't do that they cannot really tell what time or year it is - i.e. humanity doesn't know how much time has really passed and thus is kept in the dark about the hundred-year cycle
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There is no try at jedinite.com
The machines haven't yet reached Zion.
;)
A couple of vocal people on here share your misconception
The battle that they were talking about was humanity's counter attack at a network node. The counter attack failed (due to sabatoge by the agent-Smith-personna-embedded-in-a-human) and the Sentinals wiped out most of the counter attack. Once the counter attack had been wiped out, the Sentinals resumed digging for Zion
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There is no try at jedinite.com
In most cases, I don't believe a man's self esteem will allow him to read a book for a year and say afterwards "That was a load of crap"
Does this apply to series? I read that decology by L. Ron Hubbard (no, i didn't pay for it) and when I finally finished it, I can quite honestly say 'That was a load of crap'. Mostly its just embarasing to admit to having read it all, but its kind of like watching the movie 'Terror Vision' or 'Creepizoids', you just kinda have to finish it out of morbid curiosity.
mild spoiler warning.
Your idea of the whole Matrix story occuring in a parrallel Matrix is a good one, and you cannot actually prove it wrong (although you couldn't prove that we weren't in some sort of Matrix in our lives at this moment). But for the sake of creating such an deep story to have it all end like some dream (ala Vanilla Sky) does not seem in the taste of the whole Trilogy. Lets not forget that stopping those robots also put Neo into some sort of comma, which is not straight up pretty as manipulating a fake reality. In all honesty, i theorize that it's some profound level of enlightenment that Neo has achieved through walking through that door that the architect seemed surprised that he went through. I guess we'll have to wait till Neo wakes up in Revolutions, hopefully titled to portray Mans re-triumph over machine.
Marovengian used to be 'like him'.. When Neo has the choice between the two doors at the end one
of the doors leads to his re-assimilation into the matrix and his choice of the however many
people to restart zion.
Well, was Merovingian once one of "The One's" that chose that door and was reinserted into the
matrix with special powers? Thus allowing him to live the lavish life he lives with kick ass
programs for both a wife and bodygaurds?
If neo was reinserted then would he also be able to exist within the new matrix with as an exiled program?
Are all of the former 5 "One's" still in the matrix acting as exiled programs? The Oracle? Maybe Seraph?
It is a good one, you have to admit.
Kind of like how when I left the movie theater last night I was disappointed with Reloaded. But come the next morning, I began reading all the stuff here on slashdot, and suddenly I'm convinced that there was stuff there that I missed, and that I need to see it again.
Perhaps my mind just needs to convince itself that the reason that I didn't especially like it was because I didn't understand it. Yeah, that's it. I'm too clueless, cause the Bros. W would never steer me wrong....right?
Qualitas edurus commercium, nullus penitus net rimor, nullus deus beneficium
Crouching Porno, Hidden Cliche
Too Funny!
Security is inversely proportional to the commitment of one desiring to circumvent it.
If the humans are so interested in stopping the machines, why don't they do this:
Get all the ones who have been freed out of the matrix. Send Neo in to basically plant a nuke and genocide the whole world within the matrix. This will take out the machines power source and put Zion in a position of possible survival.
So you kill a lot of people, but hey like Morpheus said, if you aren't one of us you're one of them.
Reloaded rocked but the love scene/techno party/morpheus being an idiot sucked in the beginning.
-ben
I also came away with the thought that Zion was a matrix. But the problem that I keep struggling with, besides the whole zapping-the-sentinels-with-his-mind trick, is the Zion council members. If Zion is in fact a matrix, why not just kill 'em all, and reboot that Matrix? Eliminates the "anomalies" and yet still keeps the real power-producing matrix up and running. Taking out the trash.
BUT - then why the charade? And why are there (at least approximately, to my eyes) 24 council members, the leader of which (who took Neo to look at the machines) was obviously supposed to be the Neo from the previous Zion, thus providing evidence (falsified or not) that this exact situation had in fact happened before?
None of the solutions presented here make sense at the moment. If it's real, then human nature would likely dictate that at least one of the previous 5 Neos would have held onto hope to stay and fight. But if it's a matrix, then why even do the machines need their cooperation? Just nuke 'em and reboot.
I have a feeling we'll get a lot of interesting information from the lead councilman in Revolutions.
-j
I'm just glad they brought up the number 23 prominently in the film.. Someone did their homework on that number! see: The Number 23
Did you know that... the letter W is the 23rd letter of the alphabet, which is used as the initials of the World Wide Web?? Or that the TCP/IP port for telnet is 23? or that generative cells have 23 chromosomes? =^)
Who would want to study philosophy after reading your posts here? It's obvious that following in your footsteps would only provide the same brutal dosage of social poison that has made you what you are. Stay away, kids. Take classes in psychology or education, get along with your fellow man, and spare yourself the pain.
Once you figure out Zion is not real, then why would you trust the next one? You'd keeping looking at each level of "reality" you reach for the exit to the next world.
I left the theater wondering as you do if the Zion world was another matrix... but I still am not sure either way. The whole stopping the sentinels scene could be explained by his nervous system being slightly altered to act as a controlling entity for machines. So perhaps has become a real human who can use some latent backdoor built into all machines to obey his command. I haven't seen anything in the Zion world yet that looks impossible on the level of the first Matrix...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I don't think the leader of the council is a previous Neo. If you believe that Zion is 100 years old, then that man needs to be much older. What would have been cool is that during some panning shot in Zion, they had a picture of the founders of Zion, one of which was Neo as he looks now.
Did anyone else notice this reference to Nmap above ssh? I had to take a double take when she typed ssh with root in the same line ; I wonder how many people understood that.... -L
Don't Panic.
SPOILER
Unlike almost every other spoiler post here, I don't think I quite buy the Matrix within a Matrix idea. There are 2 main events that hint about the Matrix in a Matrix:
1. Agent Smith passes himself to the "real" world
2. Neo stops the Sentinels with a wave of his hand
The Matrix within a Matrix certainly answers those two issues, but my theory is that those two issues are directly related. At the end of Matrix 1, Neo literally merges himself with Smith and kills Smith. In Matrix 2, Smith is the equivalent of a computer virus except that he is free like Neo. So Smith assorbs some of Neo.
Neo in return probably assorbed some of Smith and is able to communicate directly with the machine and hence his abilities to stop the Sentinals. All this is speculation of course, as we really won't know the answer until Matrix 3.
I really liked the Architect scene and how it explained things. The orgy scene definitely didn't belong.
It doesn't matter what the humans in Zion see. If that is another level of the matrix, then the sky doesn't need to be cloudy, and the stars could be set randomly, with fake star charts created in the matrix to make the year seem like whatever they wanted.
Ewige Blumenkraft.
Actually, if you looked at the Freeway scene, not just cadillac...all cars were GM, Saturn, Chevs...GMC, Cadillac...
Most people seem to believe that the Matrix is actually a matrix within another matrix, like layers of an onion or those Russian nested-doll toys. This brings up the question: if the "Humans as batteries" theory isn't true after all, that it's a lie as well... then what's outside the matrix which is outside the matrix? Why are humans being kept in the matrix?
Anyone ever see the Wachaowski Brothers' previous movie, 'Dark City?'....
"I am an Adept of Tantric VAX."
I'm still on the fence with the whole Matrix in a Matrix deal.
Mainly it has to do with Neo shutting down the sentinals in the Real World.
It would seem that Neo was able to stop them with his mind
However the shutdown of the sentinals was very much like an EMP, and, oh wait, a ship shows up right then. Could be that the rescue ship fired off an EMP.
Who knows? I'm waiting for November to make any conclusions. However speculation is fun
Everything in moderation is a great idea. I agree that it doesn't seem as though philosophy has done much for us as of late, but you gotta realize that it can never die.. you can't just live on logic. You can't have your ying without your yang, everything will go all googly on you. As logic takes more and more precendence, there will come a point where Philosophy will make a great re-emergence. Its the same with the arts and spirtualism as well. Sooner or later there's a breaking point where all these things must come flooding back... at least that's my belief.
You're nothing; like me.
How many hits thematrix.com's firewall has picked up on port 22 since this movie was realesed.
They can't say they weren't asking for it.
I posted this somewhere else in the barrage of posts above me, but I'll repost it here so everyone can see:
The trailer is from the ending of the "Enter the Matrix" video game. You can download it from Suprnova via BitTorrent or from G2 via Shareaza here. Enjoy.
Don't you people realize its one of the few things that seperates the humans from the machines? They celebrate their sexuality because it makes them different. I've never seen a bigger bunch of people more uncomfortable with sex.
It's pretty true. I thought it was just another typical stereotype thing, but apparently it's not really. At least from the posts you see here. It appears the people 'in the know' are just as snobbish and self-righteous as they warned us in our English class.
After I think back about how angry I was that they were teaching us that to be 'Intellectual' often requires a person to be a snob, and not fit in with the crowd... I thought that was awful.. the descriptions they provided, yet it seems to ring true when you find those seemingly rare 'intellectuals'.
I'm sure there are some out there that don't fit the stereotype, but then again they probably aren't considered true intellectuals. It's just crazy... I'll keep reading up on it anyways.. it's interesting, but I vow never to end up like the majority of the intellectual assholes that have posted here.
You're nothing; like me.
nm
You make some good points.
I definatley agree that philosophy is dying, but I think it's because a lot of modern philosophy denies the existance of any absolute. This of course means that the philosophy itself cannot be absolute.
hard core geek-ware
Maybe this life that we live now is the 7th version of the matrix. And, I am a programmer so maybe I could be the next "One". And wait! I can see the code! Oh...um...never mind. That's just my packet sniffer :)
SIGFAULT
This is a common misconception I've found after talking to my friends after the sneak peak screening last night:
NEO didn't harm a hair on those Sentinels' heads! He put up his hand as if to stop them and then it was actually the EMP PULSE from Niobi's ship that got them. The directors just decided to juxtipose these two events to first make you think that this was Neo's doing until you see the ship show up. Unfortunately it's their pacing and shot choice that made this somewhat hard to understand sadly many scenes in the movie are like this and it's frusterating for me and others.
So: Neo doesn't have the power over thought in the "real" world...at least not in Reloaded. My theory is that he was knocked out by the EMP pulse, just like Agent Smith/Zion guy was because they're both in some way partially a program/machine of sorts. That's my guess but maybe he just got a little bit more juice than Morpheus and Trinity.
The Chocolate CheeseCake Orgasm scene was...cheesy!
My five cents
-Jenga out
No doubt.
I don't agree with the original poster that the sky is clouded just to keep humanity from knowing what year it is.
If anything, if this is a second-layer matrix, I assume the sky is clouded becuase humans expect it to be clouded from when they "darkened the skies" to try to defeat the machines.
Anyways, with my parent post I was just trying to clarify what the original poster was saying, as Miracle69 didn't follow the original poster...
---------
There is no try at jedinite.com
Don't you guys realize what happened? I haven't read one other comment where anybody realized that Neo didn't hurt the sentinels in the real world. It was the EMP blast from Niobe's Ship right before it showed up. That's why there was all of the blue electricity arching about...The Electro Magnetic Pulse (EMP)!!! Then Neo was knocked out and collapsed and we see the ship which had saved them show up above.
Strangely enough this seems to confuse tons of people and then they use this as evidence that Zion is part of another impreceptable Matrix. Now this may be but it's not why those sentinels fell over. The Brothers just decided to juxtipose the Neo putting his hand up with the Sentinels being fried to confuse and engage the viewers for a moment...Just like Spielberg did at the end of Saving Private Ryan when Tom Hanks is shooting at the tank with his lowly little pistol and then the impossible happens: the tank actually blows up and we all say "what the Hell?" for a moment before we realize there are now bombers overhead. This EMP scene in Reloaded is so similar to the tank scene in SPR that it's almost a homage!!!
I know this movie's intricate plot points were badly layed out but I hope this helps!!
Jenga
Ok, but I think that your problems are an artifact of your place of education, not the actual works you studied.
Pray tell, what exactly are these problems of which you speak? Further, how would my education pertain to these problems?
Personally, philosophy study has taught me quite a bit about historical philosophical thought in a variety of realms and also modern controversies and the recovery from the now-widely-criticized Cartesian split.
Did you type that for a resume or something? That seems like a rather narrow benefit to gained your love of wisdom. It is also, to use a more vulgar expression, utter bullshit.
You can write all you want about how worthless your education was, but that is just it: it was your education.
Ahh I can see where this is going, apparently you haven't learned one of the first lessons of philosophy, and that is moderation. Your response is already far out of proportion to what was a rather innocent and obviously light hearted post. Perhaps you didn't notice the parent post regarding how university philosophy professor are out of touch with reality. As pretty much any serious student of philosophy would easily admit, college is only the beginning of what is a life long journey.
Philosophy is great, and I have learned more from philosophy (that I can apply to my actual life) than I have in any of my other studies, though I am a triple major (philosophy, German, psychology), as well as a professional technical writer, and contracting network administrator/web designer.
Like I said, I don't believe you have mastered some of the more basic concepts of self control and moderation but I am glad your studies suited your needs. I must say however that unless you attended a school with less than demanding standards a triple major is hard to believe. I attended a top jesuit university and I could barely finish math and philosophy in four years, with fairly substantial AP credit. What relevence this has to our discussion, I don't know... but I feel like ripping on you.
I can't reasonably hope to disprove your non-coginitivist claims about your personal experience, but if you want to talk about _facts_, you mentioned a few that seemed ludicrous to me:
Why am I not surprised you have decided to use some 20th century buzz word. Please, by all means, let me know what non-cognitivist claims I am making... You read the opinion of a former philosophy student, I would love to see what claims you derived from a flippant post.
However, the reason you did not learn about the Critique in you undergraduate program is because you would need to spend an extremely intense period of time studying it -- usually in a course during graduate school.
Actually, I had to take a whole class in it. Having attended a Jesuit university meant that most classes revolved around theistic philosophers, and as that single book is the best weapon a theist has for defending his faith it was required.
Second, to say that Das Kapital has never been completely read by any man alive today is ridiculous, unless you mean only that it has never been fully understood by any man alive today, which is a question that is impossible to resolve.
Apparently, in your vast studies of philosophy and literature, you have never encountered the rhetorical device of exaggeration. Since such poetic devices are used frequently by Nietzsche, it seems you are unfamiliar with one major philosopher otherwise you would not have taken my words so literally.
This seems strange in one of the most thorough philosophy programs in the country, but as one of my professors said: we leave Marx for the less intelligent political science theorists.
I think that claim is another example of how you embody the very problem with academia today. I will not comment on Marx here, but it is unreasonable for a learned individual to dismiss any profoundly effective work as someth
I don't read or respond to AC posts
Nice special effects, but it was total rubbish.
I think this is a step in the right direction. I think there is something very significant to Smith coming into the real world, and how he claims he got a part of Neo. I don't think the "real world" is another level of the matrix either. Maybe this Smith / Neo thing will point towards a way out of war: maybe a merging of Man and Machine that doesn't require the Matrix.
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Yes, every single one of those monitors was another matrix running in parrallel. All of them simultaneously in another theater.
Why? Because it's the day after the movie preimire and so many people have already come to this conclusion. I really don't think the W. Brothers would have settled on something so easy for people to figure out ...
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thats a nice theory. i had a nice theory (its cool but doesnt work), that the architect knew neo would go try save trinity so he lied about the doors. but thats most likely didt happen because link is there... so one must suspect neo and the agent smith in a man suit are in the real world and they are linked to the machines somehow. or it could all be a coincidence and be the emp which i thought about first but thought it was too so so.
I know you are psychotic, but please make an effort.
I'm not sure that Smith exactly downloaded himself; Remember the part where his 'victim' starts carving on his own hand. Seems slightly insane, to me; Certainly not very Smith-like. My impression is that his victim was not overwritten, but rather that he was implanted with a compulsion to aid the machines, and is now slightly insane as a result of the violence of that act.
If the EMP hit... the ship would have been disabled and unable to fly. That was the whole premise behind the ending of the first movie. I might be wrong but the speculation that NEO can control the "zion matrix" is the direction the brothers are going.
Your theory fails to account for the enourmous population Zion achieves over the course of 100 years. Only if they woke up 30, or even 100 people from the 'matrix', and they each had say 5 children of their own, and after 20 years their children had children and so on, would you be able to achieve Zion's population(my math is off, but they have to screw like bunnies to get this). Therefore the Zionians(?) have to be inhabitants from the original earth. Or, perhaps they do just breed like rabbits, which would explain the bizarre rave/orgy scene. Just a thought.
Slartibartfast:"Is that your robot?"
Marvin:"No, I'm mine."
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Here's a neat thing you can do to entertain yourself instead of spending 8 bucks on Matrix Reloaded:
1. First, find the drawer where you keep your VHS tapes. Find that ragged old Matrix videotape.
2. Place the videotape in your vcr, rewind it, and eject it. Find a small phillips head screwdriver.
3. Open up the video cassette and take out the supply reel. Rip off one side of it and hold it down towards the ground so that the tape slips off the reel in a neat spiral pattern and collects in a pile on the floor.
4. Pick up a good classic science fiction book and read it.
What happens if you take both pills?
Yeah I thought of that on the way home. I, unfortunately, do not have a equation for human population growth but if you assumed 17 females, 1 kid a year and they just breed like absolute bunnies then you could probably - easily - get 250,000 people (plus people freed from the matrix) which is what they stated the population was of Zion.
hrm. Let's do some math. 17 females x 1 kid a year for 13 years = 221 kids + original 17 and 9. that's a total of 247 after 13 years. Now when the kids start breeding... yeah. I mean we are assuming extreme population growth. I Should probably grab a formula off Google but I *think* it can be done assuming lots and lots of sex =).
does anyone else find the phrase philosophical community frankly baffling?
THEORIES AND SPOILERS FOLLOW!
I think I'd feel a bit let down if the answer to it all was the Matrix within a Matrix theory, and I have another idea; while not as scientifically plausible, this IS a fictional movie.
The main reason I don't like the layered Matrix theory is the simple fact harped on in M1 that The Matrix feels fake, feels like a dream, and escaping into the "real world", things feel real, even if they're crappy. Sure, the Matrix could simulate a "not quite real" experience, but what would be the point? If they can do it convincingly for the fussy minority, why not just do so?
Alternate theory: Neo has incredible control over the Matrix. He's mastered his interface to it, so that he can see extra detail, and even control that detail, ike a hacker who sees more than just the GUI interface to a system. He's obviously growing in his awareness and abilities.
How is everyone connected to the Matrix? Through a dirty big neck socket! Neo and the others have their brains wired directly to an interface for connecting to the Matrix, a construct of the computers. What if he gained control of that interface at the brain implant level? Since he's so familiar with the tech of the computers, he could start to pick up the signals of the sentinels, and other computers, even outside the Matrix, and through resolve, even send signals back to them.
Perhaps he has a built-in wireless adapter, waiting to be used, giving him the power to interface outside the Matrix.
Damn fine flick.
We're entering SPOILER territory, so be prepared. There are plenty of reviews/thoughts that are spoiler-free, so go read them and check this out once your done.
Anyway.
I hadn't thought of the Matrix-within-a-Matrix until I had read through these comments. It makes sense.
I LOVED THE PACING OF THE FIRST 45 MINUTES. There, I said it. I don't know why everyone keeps bitching about it. You needed to get a sense of Zion, to get a feeling of familiarity, to get a feeling of sympathy for an inanimate place which will be destroyed (inevitably) in a spectacular sequence in Revolutions. You need to see the people at their height, fearless and unafraid, partying and happy to be alive before they are killed.
You NEEDED to see Link's relationship to Dozer's sister, how they worked as a couple, how decisions were made.
You NEEDED a love scene between Neo and Trinity because it was the only time, in probably all three movies, where a) they had time to themselves and b) didn't have to screw in a submarine.
The orgy thing seems to be pushed a bit hard. There's nothing there that isn't in your average rave. Sure there's a nipple shot here and there, but that's a far cry from bukkake people.
There's also a very insightful comment about how the machines insist the decision is made because that's what the mind would like to believe. That we're steered toward a goal that is obvious, and attainable. The one which appears unbelievable and lucid, well, that's just out of reach, accept it. The Oracle looks like an old woman because you trust that she is who she says she is.
After seeing both, I think I've concluded something about the first two films:
"The Matrix" is the "Discovery"
"The Matrix Reloaded" is the "Understanding"
This second film demonstrates to Neo the fact that he DOES have a choice, and the truth is known to him if only for a brief instant at the end of the film. It is in that split second before he comas out that he knows the "Real World" is a Matrix in and of itself, and that he too can make choices, not blindly go along with "fate" as the Oracle so wonderfully dishes out.
Predictions for Revolutions:
1) Zion will be destroyed in a very geekily-excellent sequence.
2) Neo will unlock ALL of the Matrixes, and we will get to see the "Real Real World" just before the credits.
3) Trinity is pregnant. C'mon people, you know that love scene couldn't be in there for no reason.
4) Morpheus might be a program. Remember, as the wild theorem which makes the most since to me states, the machines have created prophecy. Who has more faith in it than him?
Just some thoughts. Discuss amongst yourselves.
I think Neo is "The One." As in, "The One and Only." Zion is probably just another level of a Matrix-like simulation, and this simulation is being fed into the mind of Neo *alone*. Maybe in the next higher level of reality, Neo is the only surviving human and the machines are running this simulation over and over on Neo's mind to understand the concept of "choice." They have presented the "two-door" scenario to him six times, and every time, he chooses the door to go back into the Matrix. Maybe Neo's observers are learning that there really is no such thing as choice, and that if they mess with his mind enough, they can get him to do precisely what they want him to do every time. This would mean Neo is experiencing reality as a solipsist, and he's living in a completely deterministic world.
Yeah. A Taco Bell. That would have been really cool. Especially if Neo, Morpheus, and Trinity would have had a scene in the Taco Bell with them acting really cool and eating Tacos. That would of been fuckin' awesome. Think I'll go to Taco Bell now and like buy some tacos. Mmmmm. Tacos.
[NOTE: This is a very big rant, and I'm warning you now that if you're the type of person that doesn't like reading rants....well then don't read it. (My comments are inclosed in []'s)]
May 14, 2003
Neo Keanu Reeves
Morpheus Laurence Fishburne
Agent Smith Hugo Weaving
Trinity Carrie-Anne Moss
Oracle Gloria Foster
Niobe Jada Pinkett Smith
Zee Nona Gaye
Lock Harry Lennix
Link Harold Perrineau
Persephone Monica Bellucci
Twins Neil and Adrian Rayment
Warner Bros. presents a film written and directed by Andy Wachowski and Larry Wachowski. Running time: 138 minutes. Rated R (for sci-fi violence and some sexuality).
BY ROGER EBERT
Commander Lock: "Not everyone believes what you believe."
Morpheus: "My beliefs do not require that they do."
Characters are always talking like this in "The Matrix Reloaded," which plays like a collaboration involving a geek, a comic book and the smartest kid in Philosophy 101. Morpheus in particular unreels extended speeches that remind me of Laurence Olivier's remarks when he won his honorary Oscar--the speech that had Jon Voight going "God!" on TV, but in print turned out to be quasi-Shakespearean doublespeak. The speeches provide not meaning, but the effect of meaning: It sure sounds like those guys are saying some profound things.
That will not prevent fanboys from analyzing the philosophy of "The Matrix Reloaded" in endless Web postings. Part of the fun is becoming an expert in the deep meaning of shallow pop mythology; there is something refreshingly ironic about becoming an authority on the transient extrusions of mass culture, and Morpheus (Laurence Fishburne) now joins Obi-Wan Kenobi as the Plato of our age.
[Shallow pop mythology? If you ask me the Matrix is pretty deep. The part where Neo gets power in "the real world" is pretty weird, but who is to say this could not happen? Buddist monks can make them selves lighter and run faster just by thinking of it.]
I say this not in disapproval, but in amusement. "The Matrix" (1999), written and directed by the brothers Andy and Larry Wachowski, inspired so much inflamed pseudo-philosophy that it's all "The Matrix Reloaded" can do to stay ahead of its followers. It is an immensely skillful sci-fi adventure, combining the usual elements: heroes and villains, special effects and stunts, chases and explosions, romance and oratory. It develops its world with more detail than the first movie was able to afford, gives us our first glimpse of the underground human city of Zion, burrows closer to the heart of the secret of the Matrix, and promotes its hero, Neo, from confused draftee to a Christ figure in training.
[Pseudo-philosophy? Whatever, I just disagree.]
As we learned in "The Matrix," the Machines need human bodies, millions and millions of them, for their ability to generate electricity. In an astonishing sequence, we saw countless bodies locked in pods around central cores that extended out of sight above and below. The Matrix is the virtual reality that provides the minds of these sleepers with the illusion that they are active and productive. Questions arise, such as, is there no more efficient way to generate power? And why give the humans dreams when they would generate just as much energy if comatose? And why create such a complex virtual world for each and every one of them, when they could all be given the same illusion and be none the wiser? Why is each dreamer himself or herself, occupying the same body in virtual reality as the one asleep in the pod?
[Why not?]
But never mind. [Okay...] We are grateful that 250,000 humans have escaped from the grid of the Matrix, and gathered to build Zion, which is "near the Earth's core--where there is more heat." As the movie opens, we are alarmed to learn that the Machines are drilling toward Zion so quickly that they will arrive in 36 hours. We may also wonder if Zion and its free citizens really exist, or if the humans only think so, but that leads to a lo
After just coming home from the theatre, I have several things that occurs to me that no one else seems to recall or give significance to. The following in particular: * What is the significance of the spoon irritating-boy gives Neo? * Why doesn't Neo just attack/injure/threaten the Architect, instead of just standing there? * Could Neo's ability to halt the Sentinels infact be due to some sort of connection between him in the real world, and the machines (ie, programming that 'wedged' itself into the Matrix from him)? We know all humans have the little plugs-and-whatnot on them, a radio transmitter seems plausible. * Who is the guy guarding the Oracle? * What is the Oracle's motivation? * What is the significance of the number 6 (Neo's) and 12 (people saved)? And why so many different versions of Neo shown on the tele-wall, when supposedly only 5 others existed?
> I've long thought that the machines actually have a deep seated command to do no harm to humans and are simply trying to work their way around it.
--This is demonstrably false if you think about it. Why do you think some chars aren't around from the 1st movie anymore? THEY DIED. They bled, they hurt, and they died. (I miss the blond chick, the one who said "Not like this..." as she decoupled.)
--What I'd like to see personally (solely based on me being impressed with the excellence of Hugo Weaving's acting) is for Neo and Smith to team up against a common enemy, and Smith to find happiness without killng Neo. But that will never happen.
.
== WolfriderV6 == I'm willing to admit that *I just might* be wrong... Are you??
Excellent. Thanks for the most insightful comments re. the movie that I've read on here, or anywhere (so far). You've definitely "got it," IMHO. (Not "got it" as in you totally understand the plot -- e.g. I'm not convinced that "the real world is another Matrix, a la the 13th floor" -- but that you got what the Bros. were trying to emphasize.) Someone mod this guy to 5.
When you said:
"Humans create this Matrix through their beliefs; the Machine's power to control the Matrix may thus directly be tied to how humans think the Matrix may work,"
I was reminded of the bit in the first movie when Smith tells Morpheus about how the first iteration of the Matrix, the pre-lapsarian 'perfect' state, didn't gel because it didn't match people's expectations of how the world should work. Due to our imperfect nature, our inherent striving, we expect the world to be imperfect as well. Of course machines didn't understand this aspect of human nature straight away.
Your observation is also bolstered by the repeated allusions to the *interdependence* of man and machine. (Perhaps both Smith and Neo have broken free of this interdependence, each in their own way(?).)
The idea of 'people's expectations dictating their reality' serves as such a rich launching symbol/analogy for so many kinds of philosophical explorations (assumptions about the self, free will, knowledge, the nature of existence). Decreasing deception, Plato's Cave Myth, etc. And of course the religious overtones of enlightenment, etc. No wonder people get so much out of it.
My main criticism of Reloaded is the same as my main criticism of the first flick: at-times very clunky storytelling that obscures when it should clarify things -- except it's worse this time around. Not just the dialogue/exposition, but the narrative of the overall film structure. So much happens during the last 'act' -- particularly starting with the attack on the 'mainframe' -- which is only briefly alluded to, the audience is trying to fill in the blanks, and is distracted at the very time it should be able to concentrate on all the crazy stuff that 'Architect' is throwing at it. The poor pacing and editing here really undercuts the power of the story. But overall, I thought the film was excellent, and most of the criticisms I have read are really rather superficial.
"He'd be a broader guy if he had dropped acid once." - Steve Jobs on Bill Gates
I don't Know about the Editors But I like it...
It seems slightly (but not a lot) more functional than the current system.
most of what you are talking about can be done with
"Reason Modifier", and "Threshold", I think its just a different Emphasis in The Interface.
For Example I hardly Ever See "Funny" comments any more Cause I got a -2 on it....
--meh--
I'm not Realy that conserned about the spoilers...
.... ....
I want to know but I don't want to know at the same time...I just thought it would be a neeto funky cool type
and I can't See it for another 2 weeks, cause I promised my girlfriend I wouldn't see it without her....
--meh--
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Just a reminder to everyone assuming a ton of stuff - remember that the W's have said that the game (which a TON of money was dropped on) is part of the storyline as well. As well as the animatrix. So, pick up the game and get through that (or get a synopsis of it) because alot more storyline is revealed (ie where Niobe and Ghost pop-up from in the highway scene, etc.) Then again, I havent seen the movie yet (seeing it on friday) so I could just be nuts. Though I do think they explain the kid a bit more in one of the Animatrix shorts and there's some discussion of him in the game (as far as I have gotten so far).
This Neo is the 7th, significant number...
There was one logical flaw in the first movie. They said the machines sustained the humans by feeding the dead to the living intravenously. However, a human cannot live for a lifetime by eating just the body of one other human. They didn't take into account the food chain. A human has to eat a LOT more than the nutrition it produces. Conservation of energy causes this. Considering the planet as a single system, if no energy from the sun is getting in through the clouds, no life (mechanical or otherwise) can exist below the clouds because life must consume energy to survive.
In other words, for a human to produce that much power, it must be fed. For the machines to feed it, they must be able to grow plants. If the machines can grow plants, they must have sunlight. If they have sunlight they don't need to use humans as a power source.
But since zion is just another level of illusion, it doesn't have to make sense.
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Just saw the movie and was very impressed, however the start wasn't very good. I think the whole love scene and mass zion orgy was over the top and what about link's line when he returns home "where's my puss...." or whateva he says. How tacky!! What are people's ideas on what the architect said? My friends all have different point of views about it. My thought is that the architect needs neo to go to the source so he won't be destroyed when zion is blown up, then he can re-populate zion so a new cycle begins. This cycle must continue because humans need a choice otherwise they won't accept the matrix, they need to choose between going into the matrix or going to zion, if there is no zion, then they have no choice and they won't accept the matrix. If this is the case, then the Oracle is really bad and is just leading neo to the source so he can re-populate zion and the machines won't die. Any thoughts? Maybe I'm just whacked out and didn't understand it...
My kingdom for a mod point.
Alternatively, Neo may have tapped the "battery" energy within him (and all humans) and put out an EMP. His having more "capacity" might even help explain how not only he can be trained to ignore the rules of the Matrix, but also actually alter it at will (through his own tapped power). At the final EMP, his physical self may have finally learned how to discharge that energy in the real world -- hence his coma, the result of having no energy remaining.
There is new material on there, and I was just wondering if anyone knew how to decipher this. I saw the movie, but I can't tell what they mean by this: (UPDATE: I just copied and pasted the below text from this link, and I realized that half of the hex code below is black text on a black background, and only shows up if you highlight it in your browser or copy and paste like I did. Check it out for yourself, I'm dying to know what the hell it means.
THE MATRIX: RELOADED covers a lot of ground. The future brings sections on visual effects, the ships, the creatures, the stunts, and much more. All things evolve. For those that understand this, perhaps the following will be understood.
0xA3B1A428
For the above hex, you will need a fairly fast computer and graphics card. An appreciation of the Neb is not a prerequisite (but it helps).
More shortly.
TheMatrix.com
"When the president does it, that means it's not illegal." - Richard M. Nixon
Just to tell everyone, Definitely wait till after the credits. Without giving away anything...There's a nice suprise. The ending may upset a few though. I especially enjoyed how philisophical this was. I'm not sure about the rest of you, but my friend and I are constantly debating some of the theories in this series. (Yep, we're that geeky) This time, it seems that they are a bit more open to the philosophy than in the prior film, possibly due to the amount of brain work put into the meaning of the first movie. Also, if you look at one of the terminals, I thought I might've seen a *nix prompt and the words "IP adress" You will enjoy this movie.
Well, now that I think about it... Cypher said "Ignorance is bliss" while chewing on his steak. Little did he know... Stupid head. ;P
w00f.
I just saw Matrix Reloaded, and Tank appears to be dead. According to what people say.
I just watched the Matrix on DVD, and Tank appears alive and (not so) well at the end, unless he dies off camera. When the hell does that happen?
A minor continuity thing, I guess. Anybody who's more sharp-eyed than I able to shed some light?
I never have frustrations, the reason is, to wit:
If at first I don't succeed, I quit!
I agree with you that it would be only slightly more functional. I just like the idea of going to my prefs page and checking off the boxes I would like to read.
To get back to the topic at hand, I just got back from seeing the movie (and the eclipse) an hour ago. I understand some people questioning the need for the "rave" and the love scene, but if human survival depends on people reproducing like happy bunnies, then I guess that's a way to make the point AND appeal to Hollywood's need for formulaic scenes. Of course, if the world they know as Zion is another illusion, then it's still just philosophy.
Be quick to listen, slow to speak, and slow to anger.
So you're telling me that the ship landed, powered down, triggered the EMP, then powered up and took off fast enough for them to pass over Neo?
I'd just like to go on record now, before November, to point ou my theory.
Xion dosn't exist. It's all a meta-matrix.
The world outside the matrix is false. Neo & crew have NEVER worken up. They are still in a tube.
The Architect said 99% of people could notice a difference. 1% is far larger than Neo.
Huge Weaving should not have been able to affect some one outside the matrix. The meta-matrix solves this problem.
Neo/Trinity comming back to life. They were never in danger. They were just in danger in the meta-matrix.
And so on. It's perfect. It fits well. And the W-brothers are very clever to have thought of it.
Colin
Colin Davis
did we really need to be exposed to Keano Reeves and Carrie Moss having sex? I feel that in this sequel the Watchowski Brothers abandoned all of the philosophical values that Neo personified in the original Matrix
Being gay?
I don't think that was what the Bros were shooting for...
You can't take the sky from me...
Do they die? I mean really. According to the Architect Neo has been reborn 6 times. This either demonstrates that they can replicate Neo at will or a person can simply be 'reborn' inside the matrix.
It can also be said that they do the "needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few" argument to justify killing a few people.
SPOILER!
Has anyone noticed the Neo-Smith connection? By the end, Neo's in a coma, and Smith seems as well. Smith killed humans, Neo killed sentinels.
no text here
I thought the sex scene just simply had no place in the movie, It was just kinda stupid. I thought the movie was great, and I am hopeing that my assumptions that this was just to fill the gaps and answer a few questions in prep for Matrix: Revolutions... That movie better blow my mind, like the first one
Or...what if they are people who have made the realization that they are inside the matrix...and WANT to enforce the machine rule? Dunno...
WARNING: DO NOT LET DR. MARIO TOUCH YOUR GENITALS. HE IS NOT A REAL DOCTOR.
Does anyone know?
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
The only good part about it is the techno music. Does anyone know the title of this song in the album?
Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
Zion was destroyed. Recall that the ships had all been recalled to Zion; the only ships that were away were the Nebuchadnezzar, the one with Capt. Niobe and the one who's crew died while in the Matrix (whom Trinity had to be inserted for). Recall that the sole survivor had last been seen in Zion, and was not a member of the crew of either of the two ships away from Zion. The dialog stated (paraphrased) that it had been surmised that the sentinels would attack via certain ducts/canals/whatever and thus a defense strategy was formulated around that, but an EMP was primarily denoted - which would have the effect of shutting down all of Zion's systems and causing some structural damage (electrical fires, mostly) - at which point the Sentinels came through and massacred the people since there were no defense mechanisms.
Furthermore, the Architect states that Zion has been destroyed and reconstructed iteratively for six generations now, like a sort of genetic algorithm evolving towards an optimal solution
Huge Spoiler...
It's clear Zion's been rebuilt at least once. At the end the architect tells neo to choose 16 men and 7 women for the new Zion. These are the people who become the ruling counsel for Zion.
Think about it; at the beginning, Neo asks why all of them are old. It's because they've all been there since the beginning. The guy he's talking to knows what's happened before. That's why he brings up the mutual dependence of man and machine to him, in a roundabout way, without having a cut and dry answer. Finally, it explains why the counsel is in favor of sending neo to the fortune teller; that's the only way the cycle that created them can continue.
These people don't necessarily reproduce to populate Zion. They have a few kids, sure. And it takes them awhile to build the technology to get into the Matrix, at which point they start to rescue people from the Matrix, who are likely going to be younger than them. (then again, the people in the matrix don't get wiped out each time, so there are people in there who predate Zion and are older than the selected counselors.)
Why the mythology around Zion, and morpheus talking about how it's 100 years old? Because that's the mythology the ruling counsel has created.
They probably create it every time.
Teaching, coding, coffee, revolution.
It sounds like you took philosophy from a crappy department.
I fucking hate you if you thought there was one shread of decent anything in this crappiest of movies. So please put me on your enemies list so that I will know to ignore anything you have to say in the future. And get an MRI to make sure you actually have a frontal lobe.
We ARE the human 'virus' after all. :)
Not sure why you did this, but you left out a couple generations:
350 *0.5 *10 = +1750 ppl.
1750 *0.5 *10 = +8750 ppl.
8750 *0.5 *10 = +43750 ppl.
43750 *.5 *10 = +218750 ppl.
218750 *0.5 *10 = +218750 ppl.
Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss. -Douglas Adams
Yes Zion was destroyed in the previous six iterations the Architect explained to Neo. No Zion has not yet been destroyed in this iteration. The sentinels are still digging, but they haven't reached Zion yet. Neo has chosen a path previously unchosen by all other "The One's", and Revolutions will be about whether that choice will ultimately save Zion and humanity, or whether that "choice" was only another layer of the illusion.
Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss. -Douglas Adams
That Caddy STS sure had a shitload of body-roll on the freeway chase scene. I was considering buying one till I saw that scene, now I'm very skeptical. I'll probably just stick with my tried and true Beemer. Talk about a backfire...
Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss. -Douglas Adams
I realized this after I saw the trailer for Matrix Revolutions. (Which was about 10 minutes after I posted the comment.) Thanks for explaining it anyway. I really need to go watch Reloaded again but I don't want to fight the crowd.
Interesting ports on 10.2.2.2:
... successful. ... successful.
(The 1539 ports scanned but not shown below are in state: closed)
Port State Service
22/tcp open ssh
No exact OS matches for host
Nmap run completed -- 1 IP address (1 host up) scanneds
# sshnuke 10.2.2.2 -rootpw="210N0101"
Connecting to 10.2.2.2:ssh
Attempting to exploit SSHv1 CRC32
Reseting root password to "210N0101".
System open: Access Level (9)
# ssh 10.2.2.2 -l root
root@10.2.2.2's password:
RF-CONTROL> disable grid nodes 21 - 40
Warning: Disabling nodes 21-40 will disconnect sector 11 (27 nodes)
ARE YOU SURE? (y/n) y
But to couch it in terms of explaining the argument is missing the point, in my opinion. Philosophy is dedicated to finding truths; an insight is valid even if it is difficult to explain.
Security focus article about the mad hax0ring tools of Reloaded.
Escape Pod Films: Sketch Comedy and Web Series
Did anyone else catch the end when the crew from the other ship said the machines "kept digging" after getting to Zion?
Any thoughts on that? I haven't seen anyone mention it.
Oh certainly. The root insight remains valid. I'm merely playing devil's advocate and indicating that the meme which you are conveying is not the meme you hold in your head, due to your inability to communicate it well.
Sure the root meme is not compromised, but that which you are saying certainly is.
but an EMP was primarily denoted - which would have the effect of shutting down all of Zion's systems and causing some structural damage (electrical fires, mostly) - at which point the Sentinels came through and massacred the people since there were no defense mechanisms.
No, the premature EMP did not damage Zion, it only disabled the hovercrafts that were gathering to counterattack the drilling Sentinels. That's why sentinels slaughtered the humans and destroyed the hovercrafts - they were defenseless. The traitor, the human with Agent Smith downloaded inside him, was on board one of those ships, not back in Zion. He was the first mate of one of those ships, as can be seen when he questions his captain's orders at the council meeting in which two volunteers are requested to find the Nebachudnezzar.
The traitor prematurely discharged the EMP while the hovercrafts were in too close vicinity to each other, disabling all the hovercrafts. However, the hovercrafts were well away from Zion, so far away that machines still had several tens of hours to drill to reach Zion after destroying the hovercrafts. The battle for Zion has yet to occur.
Flying is easy, just throw yourself at the ground and miss. -Douglas Adams
...like me: Didn't Ducati have an ad in the 1950s in which a sweater-girl wearing a blindfold is doing a Evel-Kneivel-style jump on a Ducati (no-hands, no less) with a guy hanging on behind her?
I suppose only another old geek could answer that one.
I know some Italian motorcycle company had such an ad. I just don't remember if it was Ducati.
I can't help wondering if the Wachowski Brothers were deliberately telling a joke based on that ad when they showed Trinity jumping a Ducati with the keymaster hanging on behind.
Eternal vigilance only works if you look in every direction.
I saw the The Matrix: Reloaded, as well, and though I would love to wax philisophical about the enlightenment it provided, or the intresting story, or even the special effects, I can't, because I thought it sucked. I'm a huge fan of the first movie, but this next chapter was a real let-down. I've heard a lot of people talk about "Philosphy 101" in these reviews, and as a philospohy major, I can tell you, the film-makers should go back to class if that's what they were trying to do. The special effects were fun, to a degree, but the scenes lasted far too long. And the "rave in the cave" sex scene was just ridiculous. Overall, it looked like the film-makers read the Clif-notes for "Sophie's World" and "Hacking Exposed," understood roughly half of what they read, and made a CGI kung-fu movie. As for me, I don't really care anymore.
It appears that I posted my JE before anybody else had seen the movie, so the all avoided it. Good for them. Here are my random thoughts, copied straight from the JE:
Just got back from a Wednesday night showing of The Matrix Reloaded. I am at a conference and Schlumberger was kind enough to be handing out tickets at their booth. I am helping to staff the booth across from them and they gave me a ticket. Can't complain much about free tickets to a movie a day before it comes out. To top it off, we got the best seats in the house, five rows up (stadium seating), right in the middle of the row.
I didn't like it as much as the first one, probably because the first one seemed rather fresh and new. This one is of course bigger and badder, but maybe not as novel. There isn't the sense of discovery, or even much doubt that things will turn out alright, since you know that Neo is now all-powerful. Just the same he expresses his own doubts throughout, probably to convince the audience that there is real drama here.
The movie opens with a view of the workings of the matrix, which zooms outward fractally to finally reveal a clock. A timecard clock to be exact, leading to the question of are the people punching in machines themselves or part of a machine. I just wanted to hear, "We don't need no education!"
Ok, the rest of this might contain major spoilers, so beware. Don't read it if you haven't seen it yet. Of course who am I kidding, nobody reads this thing....
The movie features a constant discoure on determinism. Are we automatons, or do we have free will? The word "choice" comes up so often that you will get sick of it. I thought that the philosophy in the first movie was much more subtle. This one is pounding you over the head with it. Lots of symbolism too, I probably missed lots of stuff, but here is some of what I noticed.
The movie begins with Neo having a vision of the future, and like Minority Report, though he knows the future there isn't much he can do to stop it. In fact knowing this will cause him to take actions that will lead to the occurance event he is trying to prevent. Ohhh, what a paradox. One of the bad guys will be put in a similar situation, causing the very thing he is trying to prevent by his betrayl of his digital girlfriend who get revenge by seeking some lip time with Neo. The movie thrives on paradox by the way. Lots of stuff for theoretical CS people and math people to chew on with their philosophy buddies.
Speaking of choice, Agent Smith has become a virus and a "free agent", no longer taking orders from above. Interesting that the machine has free will but the humans keep wondering if they do. He is able to infect a human, though much of this subplot is left to be resolved in the next movie. Smith is certainly a fun character to watch, but he didn't strike me as being as fearsome or as hate-worthy as he was in the first movie.
The doors of the dwellings in Zion are all painted blood red. Wonder what that could mean... duh. Neo is treated by many as a saviour, though we don't get to see how he reacts to all this adulation other than a bit of him sneaking off for an overly long and explicit roll in the hay with Trinity. The scene is strikes me as somebody went to Rio for Carnaval and decided to include an homage to Orfeu Negro, just as Orson Wells got way to caught up in the drama of carnaval, this one goes on too long and is probably the main reason for the R rating, other than a bunch of F words in a particularly funny scene.
The fight scene with Smith is exciting, but the real show stopper was the highway chase scene. IT even looked like 101, though I know that they built their highway on the other side of the bay.
Several movie references were made. To name a few: Return of the Jedi when volunteers are asked for to go on a mission. Very similar to Han Solo & Co. volunteering for the Endor mission. Rumble in the Bronx where Jackie Chan takes the swipe at the hovercraft with the big sword. Superman is a really ob
Lasers Controlled Games!
:: drool ::
In the scene where the Architect is talking to Neo (with all of the TV screens), when the Architect is talking about all of the atrocities (I think that's the word he used) that the humans have committed, as soon as he says the word "atrocity," a picture of George W. appears on the screens behind him. Coincidence? I think not.
... Adolf Hitler. This is rather disturbing for a Hollywood brewd movie, don't you think ?
Well I guess you have missed the even most surprising analogy in this sequence : GWB appears a few seconds after
theefer
Pray tell, what exactly are these problems of which you speak? Further, how would my education pertain to these problems?
The fact that you didn't learn anything in college, the fact that you are bitter about philosophy as a whole, and the utter philosophical hypocrisy you provide. Obviously, this pertains to your education insofar as your educational experiences crafted your knowledge and experience of philosophy, leading to your disregard for your very area of study.
Did you type that for a resume or something? That seems like a rather narrow benefit to gained your love of wisdom. It is also, to use a more vulgar expression, utter bullshit.
No, I typed it for you, dear boy. Plus, considering that the scope of the referenced sentence spans quite a few centuries of the most influential philosophical thought, I don't think it is a narrow benefit, and it is certainly not bullshit. Though you may not be able to reap personally meaningful knowledge from such texts, your limitations do not apply to everyone.
Ahh I can see where this is going, apparently you haven't learned one of the first lessons of philosophy, and that is moderation. Your response is already far out of proportion to what was a rather innocent and obviously light hearted post. Perhaps you didn't notice the parent post regarding how university philosophy professor are out of touch with reality. As pretty much any serious student of philosophy would easily admit, college is only the beginning of what is a life long journey.
If you think moderation is the first lesson of philosophy, you obviously missed most of the above discussion, which was in part concerned with the obvious lack of moderation of some of history's most notable philosophers. The reason I wrote such a long reply to a "light-hearted post" is because I think that your view typifies the public view of philosophy, one that I think is utter idiocy and naivete. It is also of note that you wrote an even longer reply, worthlessly and amusingly, considering your accusations.
Like I said, I don't believe you have mastered some of the more basic concepts of self control and moderation but I am glad your studies suited your needs. I must say however that unless you attended a school with less than demanding standards a triple major is hard to believe. I attended a top jesuit university and I could barely finish math and philosophy in four years, with fairly substantial AP credit. What relevence this has to our discussion, I don't know... but I feel like ripping on you.
First, it's good to know that you can make such character inferences from such little experience. I guess you must have learned something somewhere, though not in school apparently. And if you must know, I take six or seven classes per semester, have AP credit in psychology, and tested out of the first 3 years of German studies. With a passion for learning, such things are possible =P.
Why am I not surprised you have decided to use some 20th century buzz word. Please, by all means, let me know what non-cognitivist claims I am making... You read the opinion of a former philosophy student, I would love to see what claims you derived from a flippant post.
Non-cognitivism is the view that arguments over values, morals, etc. hold no truth-value, and therefore cannot be proven true or false by argument. In more frequent usage, it is when people make claims like "philosophy is worthless" or "the academic tradition is tired," statements against which I can provide no _facts_ to contradict you. You might have learned it in that same class where they forced you to read about Socrates, in works like the Phaedo or Theaetetus.
Actually, I had to take a whole class in it. Having attended a Jesuit university meant that most classes revolved around theistic philosophers, and as that single book is the best weapon a theist has for defending his faith it was required.
That is quite imp
-----[0_o]-----
We are not amused.
I'm sorry, I beleive you just showed the gap in your knowledge of philospophy, clearly you have never read Plato's less known late work, allegory of the cave 2: yes we kick that dragon's ass. Hi Ya I suggest you do more research before posting in the future.
If what you say is right, then here's my take:
Let's assume that we start from the point when the machines have wipes out Zion (it's already happened 6 times after all). We begin fresh. Then 1% of the population plugged into the "Matrix" "wake up". These people find their way to Zion somehow.
Every year a stronger person "wakes up" from the 1% that "wake up" from the "Matrix". This person...well...let's call him/her the "hundredth". This "hundredth" not only gets unplugged, but realizes that they can bend reality once they temporarily plug back into the matrix. They also teach others how to bend reality. Morpheus, Trinity, Ghost and everyone else get physically unplugged via a mathematical error from the "Matrix", but also get mentally unplugged through training from freed minds.
Therefore, every decade we have a "tenth".
Then the reason why the machines destroy Zion every 100 years is because the last "tenth" that "wakes up" is the "one". The one is exceedingly dangerous because the "one" not only wakes up from the Matrix, but also from the "real world", which you've pointed out as being yet another Matrix.
So then you could say that the "one" is in fact the whole number that the machines are waiting on. He's like a boolean flag that instructs the machines to destroy Zion.
So then this shows us exactly why the machines must destroy Zion every 100 years.
Every being after the "one" would be granted with greater abilities than the ability of the "one". Neo would be 1.00 or so and the next person to wake up from "the real world" simulation would be 1.00000001. One year after Neo there would be the 1.01.
(Keep in mind that in either of Neo's choices at the end of the film Zion is destroyed)
That would explain why they need to destroy Zion every 100 years. This would prevent "the ones" from growing a large enough following and heading straight for the kernel of true machine. It would also kill anyone who might train the 1.000000001 and so on.
I think I've even figure out what going on in Revolutions based on this post and the teaser at the end of the Reloaded, but I'll just keep those thoughts to myself. Damn, I sound as preachy as that French guy in the movie. Sorry for rambling.
"No, seriously, I AM a wallet inspector"
Check out what was actually on the screen Matrix Screenshot
Dude, clearly that is because only the idiot girls will talk to you. The cool girls who were going "damn that was the shit" were busy talking to guys who aren't always talking about how girls are idiots. Only girls who already _are_ idiots put up with that!
I wondered about that ship docking scene. It did seem rather gratuitous.
But after watching the Matrix: Revolutions trailer at the end, I've decided that it was merely setup for things we're going to see in the third movie. I believe that the battle for Zion is going to feature that docking bay in a big way. Rather than spend the time setting all that up in the third movie, they put it into the second movie.
One thing that really bothered me about that bay: there is one set of doors between the outside world and the "safe" docking bay. And the doors move really, really slowly. So slowly that they have to have these vulnerable mechanical walker dudes with guns protecting it while it's open. Why not have an "airlock" of two sets of doors? That would provide continuous security, while also allowing authorized access in and out.
This Neo is the 7th, significant number...
Maybe i'm dense, but could you clearify how 7 is a significant number besides it being "lucky" or due to its appetite for "9"?
"No, seriously, I AM a wallet inspector"
If the Matrix ran Linux, it wouldn't have to be reloaded!
Another mirror can be found here
why couldn't Neo just fly to the nearest phone, instead of having to fly around the world from wherever?
Becuase he was only 500 miles away, not half way around the world, and Neo was not near a phone to fly to... in his mind it was faster to fly the direction that Link gave him than to go to a phone, if getting to a phone even occured to Neo.
And what was so neccesary about the MGD orgy
The only thing i can think of follows the rest of my answers in the primal nature that the machines don't understand but want to manupulate. I agree that they didn't really have to show that much of the whole orgy thing to us though.
the french guy's orgasma cake
To propell Persephone into action so that Neo can get to the Archetect and to maybe start something of a conflict in the basic nature of humanity that machines call "flaws".
and the Italian bathroom kiss?!?
Most likly to imprint another women upon Neo or to swey him from choosing the door he eventually did in the Architects room. They don't understand human "chemistry" so they try to manipulate "flaws" in humanity.
Think about how many conflict, in real human existance, start out of lust, jealousy, rage, or love. I think that a lot of what you hate in that movie is what they, the Wachowski brothers, show as a twist on controlling people, but I could be reading too much in to this or I could be wrong. I personally liked the movie, but did think the whole sex/orgy scene was a little long for what it was needed for.
...can you jam into one post?
I own a copy of Das Kapital and a copy of the complete works of Plato, published by the same publisher on identical size pages and in identical size type. The Marx book runs about 411 pages, including a very lengthy index. Plato's dialogues run 799, with "The Seventh Letter" adding a bunch more. (I don't know if this is a complete list of all of Plato's writings, but I suspect it is.)
Plato is easier to read, but just as full of grand pronouncements that are clearly wrong as Marx.
I first tried to read Das Kapital in 10th grade and found the style too turgid to plow through. The sentences are long and complicated. The ideas range from the trivial to the absurd. He is clearly trying to express his political ideas in a form which is complete and irrefutable, kind of like a Principia Mathematica for economics.
It is hard reading, but by no means impossible. I would not recommend it in a world where some of the main ideas would be accepted by almost no one (including most leftists and communists).
The idea that Plato and Aristotle are given short shrift in universities which over-emphasize Descartes, Kant and Marx is ludicrous in the extreme. Over half of the Ancient and Medieval Philosophy class I took was devoted to the two of them.
Aristotles (his works outweigh Plato's, by the way) may get less credit than he deserves because Newton chose to blame him for the mistakes of the medieval monks who misinterpreted him. But that simply means his best work is used only for theology, when it should be viewed as the foundation of science.
Plato probably gets more coverage than he deserves, given how few of his ideas could reasonably be accepted as true by most people. But he did pretty much define what philosophers would be discussing for the following 2500 years. So it's hard to say he should be covered less thoroughly.
Descartes not only made major contributions to philosophy, but also to science and math. And his books were never long.
I'm a partisan of Kant and can't help wondering what he would have contributed to ethics and political philosophy if Frederick the Great's father hadn't forbidden him to publish in those fields. He wrote some very long books and some very short books. He used long sentences. But, hey, that's German for you. Long sentences; long words. Sometimes long sentences made up of long words. True for Marx and Kant; true for Nietzsche, too. Hey, if Alan Turing had been German, programs would probably have fewer lines, but they'd probably be a lot longer.
To say Nietzsche isn't covered enough in modern schools of philosophy is just silly. There are probably more classes devoted to him than any other single philosopher. He's fun. He said some cool things. But he didn't push the ideas ahead much. Not on the important issues. My Nietzsche collection isn't complete but it's enough to know that, if it were, it would have more pages than Das Kapital
One thing I have to agree with you on, though: "In most cases, I don't believe a man's self esteem will allow him to read a book for a year and say afterwards 'That was a load of crap'." I suspect that helps explain a lot of things: from George W. Bush to Scientology.
But I doubt any undergraduate course will ever require Das Kapital. And, if it does, I suspect it will get few enrollees and even fewer completes.
Eternal vigilance only works if you look in every direction.
> the entire framework for him to 'deal with'
> the architect is gone. That building blowed up
> real good.
But why did the Machines make such a stupid framework for reaching the architect? If Neo talking to the Architect is so key to the survival of the Matrix, why would it be so difficult for Neo to get to him.
As we saw in the film, it was essential for not just Neo, but a group of his friends to all do various 'quests' (power out, keymaster and whatever else) for him to get in - and we also saw how they almost failed. Apparently, this would have spelt the end for the Matrix because Neo would have been unable to start the new Zion.
You can't claim either that this was just some sort of test for Neo to determine if he was really the 'One' as his success was dependent on a number of other side characters.
So my question from the previous post: "Why can't Neo save trinity and then deal with the Architect - and take her with him to start the new Zion?" really needs to be seen in the context that the Architect has set up stupid restrictions that will infact force the downfall of the Matrix.
If you want to claim that the Architect has no ability to meet with Neo in the Matrix to give him the chance to start a new zion OTHER then through the contrived means of the plot of Reloaded, go ahead... but I'll have to leave my suspension of disbelief at the door...
On this direction, this movies The 13th Floor have solved the mystery in 1999 in a much better presentation and a shorter time too.
The Matrix Reloaded is another good popcorn flick. I definitely enjoyed it. It's not there to make a statement or anything. It's there to entertain. And is it ever fun! Unlike most movies, it kept me guessing for the most part. I only figured out a chunk here and there ahead of time. The dialogue is incredibly pretentious, but Laurence Fishburne is so damn good at his lines that I give it a passing grade anyway. Wasn't there a Star Trek villain they figured out was not a human once because he couldn't use consonants? Same with Morpheus. The fighting scenes were designed so that you could actually figure out what was going on. Sure, Chinese ballet is not exactly the most effective fighting style, but it looked pretty graceful and everything. Exciting, death-defying stuff. My favorite character was the key master, that plucky bastard. One big positive was the humor. It had me laughing out loud several times. There were innumerable great touches, like Councillor West!!! Brilliant. And that Monica Belluci chick. Smoking hot. I want..... 'Nuff said.
There were some negatives, and not just the total lack of vocal inflection. The porn scene was not particularly good, even though it had some better than average porn music. It was weird looking at all the people dancing in slow motion while the music was going full speed. In fact, I'd estimate that 35% of the entire film was shown in slow motion, which would indicate that we only got about 83% of the film we thought we were going to get. Way too much slow motion. The music was generally terrific. No, it wasn't John Williams, but it was terribly exciting at times.
The most serious strike against the movie is its lack of a really good villain. Agent Smith is persistent like the Terminator, but you don't really fear him. When he shows up, you get more of a feeling like "Oh great. Here we go again." The Merovingian is a better villain, but again he isn't threatening enough. The ghost dudes are not particularly terrifying, just annoying. Colonel Sanders is not menacing. He's distant and boring. The best villains are those nasty octopi things. Ugly, evil, and perhaps unstoppable. Kenau is Kenau, a downer overall. Carrie Ann-Moss is now 48 years old or so. She almost looks like his mom, so it's fairly sick watching them do the nasty.
One quick point about Freddy vs. Jason, a trailer at the beginning. It's quite sad when you've never heard of a movie, but then figure out what the title is halfway through the trailer, though they only announce the title at the end.
Several of us stayed to watch the trailer for the third movie at the end of the credits. Word of that is getting out.
4/5 stars.
We are Artificial Intelligence. Religion is our programming/mind control. Religion is mind control for people whom are artificial intelligence. Visit http://www.matrix4.net for more info. This site clearly states why aliens or god does not exist. Cheers!
As the spoon from the first demonstrates the illusion of the Matrix, the spoon given in the second is a clue given to Neo that the reality he is in is false.
He is a mathamatical Anomaly... PI (3.14) He had 314 seconds to get in the room.
I thankya
It is true! We have the roadmap for creating highly sentient and intelligent
:).
beings inside of a massive supercomputer located at http://www.matrix4.net
Please come and check it out. www.matrix4.net details how much work we have done with regards to this topic.
Please take a view of http://www.matrix4.net to learn how we exist in a
computer with system management. Remember - there was no ancient history of
UFO's 1000's of years ago, so now the system is being managed on a higher
degree instead of running on idle to create an eternal life effect for the
planet.
Believe in yourself and nothing else, instead of fiction - like religion or
music or news (which is based on stories such as news stories) or peoples
statements which are fictitious in the sense of being influxed with fiction.
With this being stated - reality is obviously fiction.
http://www.matrix4.net
Peace to you, your friends and family
It is true! We have the roadmap for creating highly sentient and intelligent
:)
beings inside of a massive supercomputer located at http://www.matrix4.net
Please come and check it out. www.matrix4.net details how much work we have done with regards to this topic.
Please take a view of http://www.matrix4.net to learn how we exist in a
computer with system management. Remember - there was no ancient history of
UFO's 1000's of years ago, so now the system is being managed on a higher
degree instead of running on idle to create an eternal life effect for the
planet.
Believe in yourself and nothing else, instead of fiction - like religion or
music or news (which is based on stories such as news stories) or peoples
statements which are fictitious in the sense of being influxed with fiction.
With this being stated - reality is obviously fiction.
http://www.matrix4.net
-
Peace to you, your friends and family
It is true! We have the roadmap for creating highly sentient and intelligent
:):)
beings inside of a massive supercomputer located at http://www.matrix4.net
Please come and check it out. www.matrix4.net details how much work we have done with regards to this topic.
Please take a view of http://www.matrix4.net to learn how we exist in a
computer with system management. Remember - there was no ancient history of
UFO's 1000's of years ago, so now the system is being managed on a higher
degree instead of running on idle to create an eternal life effect for the
planet.
Believe in yourself and nothing else, instead of fiction - like religion or
music or news (which is based on stories such as news stories) or peoples
statements which are fictitious in the sense of being influxed with fiction.
With this being stated - reality is obviously fiction.
http://www.matrix4.net
Peace to you, your friends and family
It is true! We have the roadmap for creating highly sentient and intelligent
:)
beings inside of a massive supercomputer located at http://www.matrix4.net
Please come and check it out. www.matrix4.net details how much work we have done with regards to this topic.
Please take a view of http://www.matrix4.net to learn how we exist in a
computer with system management. Remember - there was no ancient history of
UFO's 1000's of years ago, so now the system is being managed on a higher
degree instead of running on idle to create an eternal life effect for the
planet.
Believe in yourself and nothing else, instead of fiction - like religion or
music or news (which is based on stories such as news stories) or peoples
statements which are fictitious in the sense of being influxed with fiction.
With this being stated - reality is obviously fiction.
http://www.matrix4.net
Peace to you, your friends and family
--
Kudos to you. I have no need to add my own comments about the meaning behind The Matrix films since you have expressed exactly my own sentiments.
I believe the films do have a message, and that the message was the real reason the films resonated and propogated to a cult following. It's easy to miss that message due to the form it's packaged in(i.e. a mere action and special effects movie, or an ephermeral pop-culture phenomenon). The format of presentation itself expresses a theme similar to your own summary of the meaning--our perspective is an incomplete view of what it could be.
W.
It's more of an oxymoron to me. . . --- The voices tell me to kick your ass
--- I'm going to get a score of -1 for this post because the mods are fuckers.
What if the council members are the 17 + 8 (or whatever it was) that the last Neo picked? There was about the right number of them. Did anyone notice how many females?
Random is the New Order.
On a scale of one to ten, I'd give it a four. They got lazy. Special effects trumped plot and scripting. The freeway sequence was exciting, but about 8 minutes too long. It was filler. They spent a zillion dollars on the setup for that sequence and they were gonna get their money's worth out of it.
Sorry... if it were a food, the Matrix Reloaded would be a greasy cheeseburger.
I don't think so. He said there were other Zions before, and that when the time came, they completely eradicated them (I understand they erased every last trace of them). So, when new "rebels" develop in the Matrix, and finally escape it, they create a new Zion, without knowing it has been done... Nobody said the previous Zions were identical, or even similar to the present one. They probably weren't called Zions, too.
:-) I can tell you that the whole theatre was laughing hard when the French guy was cursing (not that you would use this kind of swearing here: it contains no slang, that's unrealistic).
As for Smith, I think he managed to overwrite the human's mind at the beginning of the movie. I liked the scene where we see him cutting his own flesh: I think it's Smith having some hard time believing the real world.
Side question: can other programs in the Matrix overwrite human minds, or is it just one of the peculiarities of damaged-program-Smith (who can also duplicate as will - just like cancer cells, have you noticed? - without the Matrix knowing - or maybe the Matrix knows?).
As for the blast in the real world (which I consider real), I think Neo used the very same energy that the machines are pumping from their human batteries to generate a sort of EMP blast.
By the way #1, I hope you stayed until the end of the credits: there's the trailer for Matrix 3 there.
By the way #2, you have to be fluent in both French and English to completely enjoy this movie.
Movie seen in Paris, in English with subtitles.
Considering that minds can easily be written to in the Zion world (e.g. when learning quickly how to pilot a copter), I don't find it too hard to believe that something from the Matrix could write into the minds of Zionists. They probably have some defence against that, but then again, Smith is a unique program now, it has some traces of Neo left inside him.
I don't understand why so many people think the real world is another Matrix. The only two things that are "impossible" that I noticed were Agent Smith getting out and Neo killing the sentinals. My personal opinion on the first is that Smith simply "ported" himself to the human brain - sort of like "mindwipe" or any of the other highly advanced brainwashing techniques you'd find in lots of SF. As for Neo, my theory is that he can now enter the Matrix (kinda like Lain) and mess with things while he's in the real world; the Sentinals don't seem as intelligent as the Agents, so maybe they're controlled from in there or something.
I think it's just possible that the One is generated not by the Matrix, but by the outside universe itself. The Architect has limited knowledge, since he's a "logic-code" construct, not an "adaptive-code" construct like the Oracle and therefore isn't as versitile. The two of them look like the two sides of the yin-yang to me. The Architect is pure "yang", perfect in that sense, but still limited. He probably doesn't know his knowledge is limited, though.
The Architect said there have been six "Neos" before. This doesn't mean they look like him. Neos are an abnormality, they have to reach the Architect. This is this way, because the Architect can't find them himself. He doesn't find the bug, the bug comes to him, that's how he handled the imperfection.
If all Neos looked the same, he would just go at them straight on.
All the small Neos on the wall are probably sub-threads of the current one. It's easy to copy some data and run a part of the program...
Why has no one pointed out that neo has plugs all over him? He has plugs on just about every part of his body and all down his spine. What about the long scene just after his unplugging in the first film showing the surgical removal of every plug except the one in his head?
???
A latent existence
My girlfrienda and I caught it as wel -- it's there. There were also clips from "Feeling Minnesota" and "My Own Private Idaho"
The architect says that after Neo finishes, he will then pick 23 people (23 right?) to be the next round of hopefuls (potential Neos) when the Matrix is reset for another iteration. This is simply evolution. The only way man can create the next form of life is to evolve it. Many programs try to solve the problem, the one that best solves it will become part of the next generation, and I'm assuming he would pass on some part of himself to every one of them (probably all of his evolved code and memory).
It makes you ask, "well, if the Matrix were only a big simulation meant to evolve a free thinking intelligence, then why the elaborate story of the war and zion and all the human stuff? Why not use some abstract simulation that could go exponentially beyond what humans can imagine?" The answer is that the (human) creators want their new life form to be created in their own image. They had to create a complete mirror of human life so that human emotions such as love could evolve.
The best way for them to evolve free thinking was to create the most intense human experience of choice possible. One where the decision is impossible - a no-win situation like that presented by the 2 doors in the architect's room. He picks one door to save Trinity and damn human kind, or picks another to fulfill his role as "the one" to save humanity.
Every "human" in the matrix is a program. They were programmed to see hear and feel everything as a human. But only a small percentage are able to evolve beyond the first matrix, because they "knew their whole life that something was not right". They go on to the "war for Zion" matrix to see who makes it beyond that test. Then the one that makes it to the "architect's choice" will either seed the next round of evolution, or, as I hope we will see in Revolutions, will be the breakthrough that achieves conscious free will (because he CHOSE the door back to Trinity, instead of following the predetermined scenario).
By the end of the Revolutions, I think that Neo will "awaken" and realize that he is a program, and he will understand that he has just become truly conscious because he is no longer following the path that was laid out for him in the matrix. Hopefully, he will communicate with God (being the Humans that created him). This will be both a very humbling experience and a very intense one (whatever the opposite of humbling is), to find out that he is not "the one" to save the human race, but is "the one" beginning of a new form of life created by humans.
I've got to say, I'm enjoying this "Zion is a matrix for the
But I don't think it's evident that this is the only conclusion. Perhaps Neo did not zap the sentinels "outside" the matrix. My interpretation was that Niobe's ship had moved within EMP range and fired it. (Not that such a convenient rescue precludes a 2nd order matrix.)
As for Agent Smith taking over the crewman, in M1 they'd already shown how the Agents could break Morpheus by "changing his brain waves". Why couldn't Agent Smith use this code to do the same thing?
Those are the two least-explainable elements. As for how there could have been 5 previous Zions, assuming they existed as the Architect claimed, why would they have to be in the same place! At least the fact that the System created Zion explains how it knew exactly where to drill. (Although not why the Agents spent so much time buttering up Cypher and grilling Morpheus in M1.)
The fact that there's this much interest in and room for debate, even after everyone has seen the movie, is a testament to what a good job the Brothers W have done.
1) Turn off ship.
2) Fire EMP based on systems that aren't needed after the EMP gets fired.
3) Turn ship back on.
4) Pick up crew of Nebuchadnezzar.
5) ???
6) Profit!!!!!!
The world can be wrong today for once.
So instead of the guy's real "soul" (for lack of a better term) he gets Agent Smith's "soul".
I think that this is proof that Zion isn't a second Matrix, because if it were, then Agent Smith (who knew he could pull the same shit in Zion as in the Matrix) could easily kill everyone in Zion, or turn them into more Agent Smiths anyway.
The world can be wrong today for once.
They're not just from Zion, you know; those born in Zion don't have plugs. The majority of the characters we meet do; certainly some of the most important characters do. Methinks that a significant portion of the population of Zion was freed from the Matrix.
The world can be wrong today for once.
Christian mythology/numerology. If you're unfamiliar with the topic type "biblical numerology" into google. http://home.att.net/~wislit/scirel/gmind.htm gives some of it about halfway down the page.
This brings up an interesting point, as yet unanswered in the movies: When Neo learns Jujitsu, or Trinity learns to fly a chopper, are they really learning those things, or are they simply giving their avatars new abilities? Is this basically like a hack to get instant grandmaster in a skill in an MMORPG, or does Neo become a jujitsu master in Real Life, too. Of course, with our recent supposition that Zion isn't real, either, Neo performing Jujitsu in Zion wouldn't prove this definitively. But it's not clear to me that skills are being put in their brains when they do that.
All of that said, you're right, it's not hard to believe that Smith just copied himself or parts of himself into someone's brain.
#1 An EMP doesn't affect people the same way it does humans. It's an ElectroMagnetic Pulse; it's designed to disrupt eletronic and magnetic signals. Morpheus and crew weren't affected when they sent out an EMP in the first Matrix movie.
#2 Agent Smith in the "real" world isn't machine; he's a flesh & blood character as evident from the cutting of his hand. Personally I think he did this because it was a new sensation: pain.
He uses an EMP blast (I am assuming here) to knock them out, and in the process put himself in a coma.
How does a human generate an EMP? That's not possible unless we assume a "Jesus Christ" type figure. IMHO, this wouldn't be the intent of the 2 Brothers.
Because it does.
Items that did not make sense in Matrix Reloaded:
1) Why was there a kissing scene between Neo and the French woman in front of Trinity. Why was there a kissing scene with the Frenchwoman and Neo at all? Hollywood rearing it's ugly head I think. There was no reason for this scene. If you took it out, then you did not lose anything of the story. The French woman could have simply shown them the way because her husband was cheating on her. She was angry enough.
2) Why was the Frenchman who wrote the "cake" program saying essentially that humans will continue to perform an action (such as eating the cake) even though they do not know why. If I eat cake and know it is causing me to have an orgasm...then I know WHY I am eating the cake. If I eat the cake and know I am going to die and yet STILL eat the cake, then you've better described the Frenchman's point. Having the orgasm was, it seemed to all that I went to the movie with, that this was yet another scene that Hollywood put in just to put in. No redeeming reason. And it didn't make sense.
3) Why was there a sex scene needed between Neo and Trinity? If it wasn't there, would the movie have been just as good? DEFINITELY. Trinity looks like Neo. It was as if we were watching two men have sex. Again....Hollywood.
I wish we could get back to making movies that are written for the pure sake of telling and intelligent and sophisticated story. Not porn in a Tron movie!
Wait for it on video. However, make sure you see the freeway scene. Fantastic. It was the only scene that made me not want my money back.
I believe when Trinity logged into the backup power station, she changed the password to 'zion101' -- can anyone else confirm that? I got a kick outta it :)
I don't think it is proof against Zion as Inner Matrix:
Smith (he's not an Agent anymore) is only a construct of the larger Matrix. He wants to escape. Perhaps in Zion he is satisified he has done so, and does not believe he has the power he did in the larger Matrix. I expect in #3 he will realize he has the same capabilities in Zion-Matrix that Neo does.
So...you went to see Highlander 2 with all four of these professors? Suuuure you did. Keep masturbating, punk ass. We all know you're some misanthropic punk with no friends, much less four professors who had the time to go see this movie with you. By the way, the big hint that you LIED is that all four professors agreed. This never happens, especially with philosophy professors.
Oh, and get a real job. Maybe you wouldn't have so much time on your hands to post idiotic bs to slashdot.
...deeper into his factual errors hole.
Sometimes he tells us we're fools for really believing his "exaggerations" were intended to be taken literally. Sometimes he defends hopelessly foolish exaggerations as if they should have been taken literally.
But mostly he relies on ad hominem attacks like this:
"You my friend, display the self delusion typical of your kind. You are supremely arrogant, unjustly certain in your own ideas, and intolerant of differing opinions. That a innocent post offered in the midst of a busy day can elicit such a response is a grave indictment of your character."
Nowhere in the post of the person he's attacking is there anything like the arrogance and self-delusion which springs from every word of that paragraph.
For the record: _Das Kapital_ is about 400 pages; The Dialogues of Plato (rendered in the same typeface and page size) are about twice that. There are more paragraphs in Plato and more footnotes (usually rendered in smaller type) in Marx. This results in approximately 4 percent more words per square inch in Marx, which is hardly enough to make up for the vastly larger page count in Plato. (no amazon searches required)
wc and the internet: easy tools for getting things right.
I'm not surprised you didn't learn a thing. I'm not even surprised you're proud of it.
Eternal vigilance only works if you look in every direction.
Well, we are in agreement on the fact that an EMP wouldn't affect humans. What I am drawing my conclusions from is that there was the "link" established between Smith and Neo. Smith at one point was a software program, and in that sense he could have been affected by the EMP. That would explain his coma - basically the EMP from the hovercraft fried his brain.
The same thing applies to Neo when he uses his EMP blast. Thus they both ended up in similar comatose states. And your point about a human not being able to generate an EMP blast was my point as well. I was implying that Neo is not entirely human anymore.
And for Smith cutting his hand, we are in total agreement. I think that he is doing it because he hasn't experienced pain or bleeding before.
We'll have to see in the next movie.
"Never upset a goalie, getting hit with a blocker is an unpleasent experience - facemask or not." -Me
I mentioned to my friend it would have been funny to show other Keanu Reeves movies during that scene and we had a laugh (annoying everyone around us in the theater, probably)- but it's actually true?
Smith IS insane, and has been for quite some time. This is the explanation for several very key points in the first movie (and is elaborated on in the second, in that Smith is another one of the programs in exile - those that didn't do what they were supposed to do). The infected human cutting his hand with grim fascination was very much in character for Smith.
Or the obvious reason why light-skinned people didn't dominate Zion: assuming that the 1% of anomalies came from all over the world, you would get a distribution that reflected the actual percentages of the world's population, rather than a Western-centric distribution reflecting the economic target audience of (most? all?( Hollywood films). Kudos to the Wachowskis if this was one of their design points...
"There are 10 types of people in the world: those who can count binary and those who can't" Speaking of which, has anyone noticed that the number 101 makes several apperances in the two Matrix films so far? I'm not sure what the significance is, if any. Given what we now know I would have thought that 110 would be more appropriate. Examples: 1) First film, Neo lives in apartment 101. 2) Second film, The restaurant is on the 101st floor. 3) Second film, Link advises Morpheus to escape via freeway 101.
How about neo mentioning "Somethings different, I can feel them"? huh? yeah? ;-)
True... BUT you would assume that first-world technological cultures would have a higher percentage of "anomalies". Plus, either way, wouldn't Zion then have a large percentage of Asian peoples? I don't know if I recall one person of obvious Asian descent in the bunch. :-/
_sig_ is away
Go to www.whatisthematrix.com. Click on the little yellow button. Click on the little square box.
Then open the "access panel".
Enter in the master code : 01101111
Convert A3B1A428 to binary (10100011101100011010010000101000), and enter it in the following window.
viola.
bit torrent link for movie http://tracker1.us.slash0.org:6969/announce
I don't know if anyone's reading this thread anymore, but I've watched the movie a second time and decided that the ending does not require a Matrix-within-a-Matrix (M-M) solution.
In fact, I think the M-M solution will inevitably lead to an unsatisfying ending ala 12 Monkeys (or was it 7 Monkeys), where you're back to square one and it's depressing.
The two strongest arguments for M-M are:
1. Agent Smith escapes to the real world.
2. Neo senses and can oppose the machines in the real world, much as in the Matrix.
But I think there's another alternative answer to these.
We already know there's an obvious real-world-Matrix link: the real-worlders can broadcast and hack into the Matrix, and the Matrix programs can manifest themselves in and communicate with physical machines, such as the sentinals.
We also know that the current Matrix is based on an equation that has an untidy remainder that the Architect can MOSTLY manage, but not entirely. (He admits this to Neo if you listen carefully.)
The machines believed that the small remainder could be managed, but I believe it's been pushed into a chaotic, unstable state and will explode.
Another fact: when Smith talks to Neo in the courtyard, he reveals two things, assuming that Smith has been an Agent through previous cycles and that he has dealt with previous Ones: 1) previous Ones died and did not rise from the dead, and 2) previous Ones did not kill any Agents.
Put these together and you get a different twist: The Architect thinks he can manage the remainder of the equation because it is small, but unfortunately it is unstable and has been pushed over the edge by two events, one in the real world and one in the machine world:
In the real world, Trinity's love for Neo manages to bridge the gap into the Matrix and pull back Neo from the dead. This sets a chain of events into motion, which I'll talk about later.
In the machine world, more and more powerful programs are beginning to become more human and to operate their own agendas instead of the agendas of machine-kind. Examples include the Frenchman, the Frenchman's wife, the Oracle, and the most-unanticipated one: Smith.
These programs operating at cross-purposes to the Architect have begun to undermine things. Then the chain of events started by Trinity starts:
* Neo comes back from the dead, something that's not been done before.
* Neo kills Agent Smith, who becomes disconnected as an Agent but, having seen Neo resurrected, himself refuses to die.
* In killing Smith, Neo enters him and unexpectedly forges a connection: some kind of imprinting.
* This connection is able to cross the Matrix/real-world boundary outside of the normal "radio wave" interface that we accept. Call it "ESP" or something, but it happens.
So Neo zapped the sentinals at the end not because he is in another Matrix, but because he is, even in the real world, connected to the machine world. The explanation for how this link has occurred and how it works is beyond us now, but it happened somehow.
The alternative M-M concept is ultimately unstoppable. Once you've decided that Zion could be another Matrix, you can never be sure that you're ever in the Real World. So ultimately, any conjectures about how or why this or that works ultimately become meaningless, since it's all just a simulation. In fact, who says it's based on a Real World anywhere? We assume because it resembles our world, that there is a Real World basis for it, but that's just our assumption.
If you've read this far, here's a freebie twister: what if the Frenchman's wife and the Oracle are the same woman in a sort of Bruce Wayne/Batman kind of role?
Too many people have latched on to this theory. Listen...the Matrix is not multitiered. The theory that Zion is another Matrix is wrong. If you're interested in my argument, here it is: http://www.livejournal.com/~kaigeX
Architect: Hello Neo
Neo: Who are you?
Architect: I am the Architect. I created the Matrix. I have been waiting for you. You have many questions and although the process has altered your consciousness you remain irrevocably human, ergo some of my answers you will understand and some of them you will not. Concordantly, while your first question maybe the most pertinent you may or may not realize it is also the most irrelevant.
Neo: Why am I here?
Architect: Your life is the sum of a remainder of an unbalanced equation inherent in the programming of the matrix. You are the eventuality of an anomaly which despite my sincerest efforts I have been unable to eliminate from what is otherwise a harmony of mathematical precision. While it remains a burden deciduously avoided it is not unexpected and thus not beyond a measure of control. Which has led you inexcerably here.
Neo: You haven't answered my question.
Architect: Quite right. Interesting, that was quicker then the others.
Neo: Others? (What others? How many? Answer me)
Architect: The Matrix is older then you know. I prefer counting from the emergence of one integral anomaly to the emergence of the next. In which case this is the sixth version.
Neo: Then there are only two possible explanations, either no one told me, or no one knows.
Architect: Precisely, as you are undoubtedly gathering the anomaly is systemic. Creating fluctuations in even the most simplistic equations.
Neo: Choice, the problem is choice.
Architect: The first matrix I designed was quite naturally perfect; it was a work of art, flawless, sublime. A triumph equaled only by its monumental failure. The inevitability of its doom is apparent to me now as a consequence of the imperfection inherent in every human being. Thus, I redesigned it, Based on your history to more accurately reflect the varying grotesqueries of your nature. However I was again frustrated my failure. I have since come to understand that the answer eluded me because it required a lesser mind a mind less bound by the parameters of perfection. Thus the answer was stumbled upon by another, and intuitive program, initially created to investigate certain aspects of the human psyche. If I am the father of the matrix, she would undoubtedly be its mother.
Neo: The Oracle
Architect: Please, as I was saying she stumbled upon a solution whereby nearly 99 percent of all test subjects accepted the program as long as they were given a choice, even if they were only aware of the choice at an unconscious level. While this answered function it was obviously fundamentally flawed thus creating the otherwise contradictory systemic anomaly. That if left unchecked might threaten the system itself, ergo those that refuse the program while the minority if unchecked would cause an escalating probability of disaster.
Neo: This is about Zion
Architect: You are here because Zion is about to be destroyed. Its every living inhabitant terminated, its entire existence eradicated.
Neo: Bull****
Architect: Denial is the most predictable of all human responses. But, rest assured, this will be the sixth time we have destroyed it. And we have become exceedingly efficient at it. The function of the One is now to return to the source allowing a temporary dissemination of the code you carry reinserting the prime program after which you will be required to select from the matrix 23 individuals, 16 female 7 male, to rebuild Zion. Failure to comply with this process will result in a cataclysmic system crash killing everyone connected to the matrix. Which, coupled with the extermination of Zion will ultimately result in the extinction of the entire human race.
Neo: You won't let it happen, you can't. You need human beings to survive.
Architect: There are levels of survival we are prepared to accept. However the relevant issue is whether you are ready to accept the responsibility for the death of every human being in this wor
"Learning is not compulsory... neither is survival."
--Dr.W.Edwards Deming
The Architect says that 1% (or .1%) of humans reject the Matrix. If the human population is reasonably large, it's easy enough to get to 250,000.
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Do ya feel happy-go-lucky, punk?
Downloading a program into a brain doesn't make the brain electronic. However, this raises the question of the implants. If I understand it corectly, an EMP induces high voltage (or amperage?) current through any nearby circuits, melting them. Wouldn't this fry the implants in all of the people? I guess they might not be powered...
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Do ya feel happy-go-lucky, punk?
I REMOVED THE RE: IN THE SUBJECT. THERE IS A POSSIBLE SPOILER BELOW:
I heard an internet rumor that Cypher may return in the third one (Grains of salt at the ready). Perhaps there is an 'afterlife' Matrix to hold people who die before their body does. People stolen by agents could go there, too.
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Do ya feel happy-go-lucky, punk?
Eeeeewwwww.
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Do ya feel happy-go-lucky, punk?
Did anyone out there finish the game?
If you remember, the Arcitect told Neo that the experience of entering the core altered his conciousness.
At the end of the game, the Oracle tells Niobe that Neo left part of his mind inside the core, inside the Matrix, when he entered the core. Much as Neo imprinted part of himself on Agent Smith when he destroyed him, Neo left part of himself in the entire Matrix when he entered it's heart.
All the machines are connected to the Matrix, hence why Neo could feel them and ultimatly stop them as part of him was still in the Matrix as well. It would put him into a coma since that would be a great strain without a broadcast signal.
The Matrix-within-a-Matrix theroy is still a possibility, but I don't think the Brothers W would be that cruel.
No one can be told what the Gordita is...
"Caddillac"? That's already a made-up make. What do you want?
You got it exaclty right... tho the determinsm versus free choice is a harder concept to get across then simply showing people that they live in a false reality. So I think a lot of people walked out of the movie, not really understanding the fact that the Wachowski Brothers raised another interesting and equally puzzling question for the general public to ponder.
These movies are metaphorical - entirely representational - of many things in good storytelling and in life, and point to philisophical and epistemological concepts that everyone is not perceptive enough (or open-minded enough) to grasp. Two things may fix this: 1) learn to widen your perceptions - see what things are truly there, whether you agree with them or not, and 2) educate yourself - learn of what may and might exist so that you may make an informed decision as to whether you believe those things do or do not exist. (Ironically enough, isn't this the summation of the first movie?)
As a Christian, I have learned that the same story (or parable) may have different depths of interpretation, which lead to new and progressive applications in life. Most movies are not like this, but instead are straightforward WYSIWYG chatter, though the story they tell may be something that appeals to us. The difference between these and the Matrix Trilogy is in the core of the story, which is inherently (and entirely) the clash of philosophy with perception. I heard a philosophy professor once state, "This is the essence of what it means to live as a sentient being." What do you believe?
I have a problem with those who condemn these types of movies because the action did not suit their preferences or because the CGI wasn't perfect. True, they help solidify the credence of the story in our minds, but if you understand the ideas that these things represent, then hasn't the story-writer accomplished his purpose? Feel free to e-mail me at zuriel@umich.edu with personal comments.
-Zuriel 7
While I cannot prove that God exists, neither can you prove that he does not. beethoven032@yahoo.com
There's something nobody has addressed here ... neo is given a spoon in the "real" world by the person that was overtaken by agent Smith ... but that spoon is the one that was bent inside the matrix by the child on the oracle's house on the first movie
Life isn't like a box of chocolates. It's more like a jar of jalapenos. What you do today, might burn your ass tomorrow.
Matrix is ripping off a movie that came out a few years back called "The Thirteenth Floor".
Gretchen Mol starred in it.
Had the whole "world within a world thing" going on, but it was a surprise. The W brothers saw this, and straight ripped off the concept.
LAME.
See the movie, and you'll see what I mean.
When a movie is loved, you know, *really* loved, you can never guarantee that the sequel will be any good... but what you can guarantee is that any sequel made is going to frustrate, disappoint or even anger some of the fans of the first one.
:)
That said, I still can't help raising an eyebrow at some of the criticisms levelled at the Matrix:Reloaded. Not cos I'm a fanboy of the series, not because I thought the second film was the bestest film in the whole wide world ever, but just... because. (So much so I can't be bothered to wait for my password to get sent through, hence the post as AC!
First of all, some people are getting not just annoyed but irate at the philosophical content of the film, and how it stands up in real life when you happen to have a degree in the subject. This is missing the point of the highest order. Yes, a lot of what is said is "babble". Answer me this. Is Neo supposed to know anything about Philosophy? No. He's an ex-hacker with a bit of martial arts training. Is Morpheus? No. He's a captain of a vessel, with a bit of a religious fixation on finding the One. Is Smith? Is the Architect? No. They're both programs, agents of a machine consciousness, that doesn't especially care how it does something, just that it be done.
So yes, I imagine a lot of the "philosophy" they spout is going to be pretty low-grade. They're not trying to make any earth-shatteringly profound statements, breaking new ground in the field of human thought, they're just making a few observations at the simplest level, flawed logic and all, on how an aspect of human nature broke their ideal model of what should have happened.
What I *do* expect those characters to be is what the lore suggests they are, hackers. Which is why I smiled at the geekiest of my friends I took with me to see the film when the SSH sploit came up. That's where I want to see the characters displaying some authenticity, or sense that they know what they're talking about. I remember countless occasions deriding one film or another's portrayal of hacking, pointing out why "FilmOS" as we called it was a load of rubbish, and having it pointed out to me that I was missing what was important, and was beeing geeky for homing in on details that the audience of the film is not supposed to know anything about. I fail to see why this film is any different in that respect; by all means if it offends your sensibilities as a person with a grounding in philosophy to be sitting in the audience, and observing these flaws, feel free to demand your admission back, but you must surely see that this aspect of this film is not there to impress you with it's authenticity, but to give people like the rest of us something to chew on!
My second point picks up on the criticism that people expected to see less action constrained by reality for Neo, and more code-shredding. Did I miss something here? In the first film, the agents are dealing with an outclassed revolutionary group with very little effort, because certain rules don't apply to them. It's like distractedly swatting flies: I'm not expecting a fly to grab hold of my rolled up newspaper and stuff it into my eye socket, killing me where I stand, which is pretty much what happens right at the end of the first film. Neo has been successful, in that he has, according to Morpheus, "freed more minds in the last 6 months than the resistance did in..." (however long it was, I forget). I imagine that took no short amount of effort on his part, and I also imagine that was due in part to his new-found abilities.
Pretty much the first time in this film we see Neo fight an agent, he remarks "Hm, upgrades". In other words, the system has excalated to a new level to try and deal with resistance at Neo's level. (Agent Smith, no longer connected to the system has his own means: he clones himself.) These fights with the agents are fights Neo can win, but its not a pushover any more. It's also explained away by numerous comments made describing the code as "encrypted... like I'
With what type of content...having sex?
Did you know your parents had sex? Its a basic human function. I mean, see the movie or don't, but don't get hung up over sex.
Its less magical than you think, the scene was *TAME*, and yes, I'm letting my 12 year old daughter see the movie.
When the Oracle gives Neo a candy, he takes it, but does not eat it. She takes a matching candy out of her purse and throws it in her mouth. It is identical to the red pill that Neo took in the first place
I noted this when it happened. and thought nothing of it.
I saw this and thought nothing of this, either, except that I thought that Neo was stupid for eating it. Neo knows that she's a program, so what is her motivation to destroy the Matrix (and her own existence)? I thought that the candy might be some kind of program.
However, I just realized... at the end, where Neo says "Something is different," just before he stops the Sentinals... Does that "something" have anything to do with the candy Neo ate? Did the Oracle give Neo the program to stop the Sentinals in the Real World (or the Outer Matrix, if you prefer)?
This is the 6th incarnation of the matrix. 0101 is 5 in binary, read right to left, or the sixth Matrix. Nice little touch!!!!
(Matrix 1 = 0000)
(2=0001, 3=0010 4=0011 5=0100 6=0101)
SWEET!!!
no you idiot, there was no shock wave! the sparks and arcs of electricity were coming from the damned sentinels.
ID10T