Slashdot Mirror
Warezed SoundForge Files In Windows Media Player
An anonymous reader writes "German PC-Welt magazine reports that Microsoft used an illegal copy of SoundForge 4.5 (Google translation) for editing Wave files shipped with Windows Media Player. You can check that yourself by opening any file in the [Windows location] \Help\Tours\WindowsMediaPlayer\Audio\Wav\ folder in notepad or other editors of your choice and looking at the last line. There you will find a reference to SoundForge 4.5 and also a user called 'Deepz0ne' who happens to be one of the founders of an audio software cracking group called Radium."
"Do as we say, not as we do."
Optimist's response: Maybe they were waiting for their activation code. Pessimist's response: They knowingly stole it. Realist's response: Even Microsoft has no use for MS Sound Editor.
It's ok, though, because Microsoft has indemnified everybody (except embedded Windows users), so just be happy this didn't happen in some terrible operating system without a big, strong, virile company like Micorsoft backing it...
www.eFax.com are spammers
I want to shake the hand of the guy who forgot to license it properly.
Where is the BSA when you need them? :)
-molo
Using your sig line to advertise for friends is lame.
Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
That what you get when some jr. programmers make the adjunct software in a company where it takes forever to purchase anything!
MS is the leetest crew out there. They are just giving greetz to their friends at RAD
-GRAViTY pwns j00!
just...wow...I thought big M would have been smart enough to remove that.. if they had they probably woulda gotten away with it too..
In case the linked JPG goes down, mirrored here: http://img41.exs.cx/img41/9093/winwarez.jpg
Just confirmed it.. ahh that makes me feel much better since I use warezed versions of microsofts development tools myself
... to continue to use my pirated copy of Windows?
Microsoft? Stealing someone else's software? Perish the thought, I'd have never imagined something like that happening...
Let's face it, it's actually *less* morally dubious than their usual practice of stealing ideas which they then pass off as their own and profit from...
(On a random aside, it's probably a tad inadvisable to put an entire screenshot up on the webpage which you then link up for slashdotting; the app window would have been more than enough.)
First sentence in the translated article:
...
Already times on the idea come
Really want makes me the article to read.
Media Player, CD Burning, Internet Explorer, Anti-virus, DOS, etc etc..
is this really news? we already know microsoft is full of lousy programmers, thieving exceutives and probably hot chicks.. WE NEED A GIRLS OF MICROSOFT CALANDER!
when does the well of microsoft garbage end?
--
Matt Keeler
ODP Editor - http://dmoz.org
http://elysium.org
Read here...
Heads are going to roll in building 50 at Microsoft (the location of their media player devs) when this goes around. So, is this the true representation of Microsoft DRM in action? ;-)
Might the witness bring forward Exhibit A: "LISTB INFOICRD 2000-04-06 IENG Deepz0ne ISFT Sound Forge 4.5 " Sonic Foundry... I hereby admit to the court that I am indeed guilty on charges of being an accessory to theft and those of receiving stolen goods. Might my remorse and honesty be taken into account at the time of sentencing. 'plex
Rich Gentlemen Hide - The Existential Comic
Actually, the tool required to see the code would be a hex editor, not a regular text editor like Notepad.
Odd, the tool "required" on my laptop was notepad. It did the job just fine.
Dedicated Cthulhu Cultist since 4523 BC.
...although, when you think about it, who knows what stolen code might be in Microsoft's software? What with it being "closed source" and all...
"I might have made a tactical error in not going to a physician for 20 years." -- Warren Zevon
So when does it stop being 'opinion' that big companies don't give a shit about anyone else's "IP rights".
We bash MS, and get MS defenders countering with idiocy that makes it seem like it's all a battle of opinion over whether MS is a big bad company or simply misunderstood, or whether MS is a monopoly, or just highly talented, whether MS doesn't give a shit about IP rights while enforcing their own or they're just working within a business realm that they need to survive.
Sorry, It just keeps going on and on like this. MS using pirated software to develop & promote their media player. Indefensible from a company that professes to rely so much on IP, unless they're nothing but greedy hypocrites.
I'm going with the "nothing but greedy hypocrites" thanks
except that your looking for a string, so notepad works fine and dandy
Ok now file lawsuits against every single MS operating system user that will teach them to offer
indemnity.
I guess what they say is true, once a criminal always a criminal.
Got Code?
Perhaps unlikely, but couldn't Deepz0ne work at Microsoft? ... then even if (s)he got Microsoft to legally purchase the software and entered that as the username, it would have the results shown in the screenshot.
Of course it's kind of a conflict of ideologies for DeepzOne to work there, and far more likely they pirated it.
Of course Microsoft already knew that, and in preparation they announced the recent "Indemnification" program to keep MS users from being sued by SoundForge, or (even worse) by Deepz0ne.
/me coughs
one better than mcleodeight
But moment once who or which is " Deepz0ne "? (no meaning)!
Tell me about it! I have that problem all the time, man.
Methinks machine translation is still in its infancy.
I am a geek attorney, but not your geek attorney unless you've already retained me. This is not legal advice.
Already times on the idea come, one with Windows XP installed WAV file with the editor to open? That makes nevertheless nobody - Microsoft will have imagined, nevertheless innumerable WAV files on the computer and those lie are to to listen to and to do not look at there.
Off-topic me all you want, but what's the point of providing a Google translation of these things. It's like posting an article and expecting no one to RTFA.
Oh, wait...
SoundForge is not SourceForge.
Please read the Google translated article for clarification.
da ZombieEngineer
...I'm not that surprised. Microsoft has something of a history of such behavior: ripping off ideas pioneered by other companies, "acquiring" Google's search results, and now, it seems, shipping files created with pirated software. Of course, from my experiences with new versions of WMP and the associated software, it's no wonder that MS employees would rather use cracked software than in-house products... there are many much better programs out there, and I suspect that MS employees are just as aware of this as the rest of us.
Okay, my bad... I had to turn word wrap on to see it. :)
Simpli - Your source for San Jose dedicated servers and colocation!
Most likely they just had some junior level member make it... or even outsourced the project to someone who doesn't care about legality. But they should still verify that they aren't distrubiting pirated materials to everyone everywhere.
... Nah
Or... Mr. "Deepz0ne" actually works for microsoft, and distributed the legit microsoft serial.
So... how is it working as a sound file editor at Microsoft ?
"Not to mention all the idiots who use words like boxen."
Anonymous Coward on Monday August 04, @06:49PM
Maybe it's a public relations stunt to counter Linux. Microsoft are trying to appeal to the 1337 market.
Si tacuisses philosophus mansisses. If you had kept quiet, you would have remained a philosopher.
In my case, the headline should read:
Warezed SoundForge files in Warezed Windows Windows Media Player.
That was in response to the developers of SoundForge using a warzed copy of windows.
Have you actually tried it? I just did, and it opens up fine with Notepad and you can easily read "2000-04-06 IENG Deepz0ne ISFT Sound Forge 4.5" at the end of the file.
Sound Forge 4.5 isn't GPL software. Basically, someone in Microsoft used a pirated version of some sound-editing software to make a sound file for Windows XP, and the evidence of the piracy is in the metadata of the WAV file. It just proves that they pirated some proprietary software to make a sound file, not that they ripped off GNU source code and put it in Windows.
It's a big deal because Microsoft, along with the BSA, comes down quite hard on companies where even nominal amounts of illegally licensed software are used. Those companies will now have the same defense that Microsoft currently has: Sometimes mistakes happen.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Media Player is a big project, can't those guys get the software they need? I work in the games org, we fight for SCRAPS over here... I'd be less surprise if someone used warez to do their job here, or in some other red-headed stepchild division.
Eval purposes only. Shame shame shame. They still probably have the extension associacted with system info.
Um, those programs use BSD licensed code, not GPL'd code, so your claim is not valid.
"Nature doesn't care how smart you are. You can still be wrong." - Richard Feynman
did you see the big monty python foot next to the headline there big fella?
hover over it with your pointer... go ahead, i'm waiting
see what the pop up text says?
it says "It's funny. laugh."
do you understand the fucking concept? do you really?
because i don't think you do
i assert to you that unfunny negative asocial "article appropriateness" trolls like yourself second guessing the editors can do, and are perhaps doing, more damage to slashdot than any editor with a trigger happy post button ever can
capisce asshole?
learn to laugh
no, really: learn to fucking laugh
HA HA HA
>:-/
intellectual property law is philosophically incoherent. it is your moral duty to ignore it or sabotage it
I dont think that's news, I remember someone telling me (who worked at M$) that they had anything and everything available, apps wise, with keygens and serial numbers included with a note "Please uninstall when you are done with it"
The problem here is that M$ has that big wall infront, made of their corporate lawyers, so doing and audit on them would be next to impossible.
Not to mention that this is not surprising, usually biggest proponents of something are biggest hypocrites of the same thing as well, in this case anti-piracy.
We all know he's a he. Women have better things to do with their time than crack software.
Doesn't it make you feel good to know that our freedoms are protected by politicans, lawyers and journalists.
Actually it is a good little story. Microsoft keeps going on about being solidly against piracy and 'actively' going after it (or so they like to make people think). But now it's obvious their own people aren't immune to piracy and they've made hypocrites of themselves. Pretty funny.
I would point out that standard company culture would almost encourage this sort of behavior at MS. Heck, I'm willing to bet most of their employees signed on for a free copy of MSDN Universal....
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
You don't seem to get it, maybe you didn't read the second page. The point was not that Microsoft used Sound Forge. The point is that Microsoft used a warezed version of Sound Forge.
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Hrm.. and with soundforge costing... letsee... 399.. and Microsoft claims to have sold how many copies of windows? In the millions for sure.... that's gotta be several million dollars worth of damages..
This is assuming that work produced with a pirated piece of software garners the same sort of punishment as the software itself.. which is of course not likely. (Does anyone know anything about legal w/ regards to the products of illegally gotten software?)
IE: If I were to say.. pirate Apple's Final Cut pro, and then make a movie with it that made millions.. would Apple be entitled to a lot of my profits or only the fee concerned with the original infringment?
I heartlily recommend that you pirate one.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
LISTB INFOICRD 2000-04-06 IENG Deepz0ne ISFT Sound Forge 4.5
Slashdot was a relevant new site ? Rethin
Please stop celebrating.
This is an easy one for Microsoft. They'll just say they used an outside contractor for the work in good faith, and had no knowledge of any wrongdoing.
Reading comprehension isn't a strong suit of yours is it? The problem isn't that they used an industry standard application, it's that they pirated it.
I read the internet for the articles.
You are 0wn3d, you bloody hypocrites!
It wouldn't make sense for Microsoft to use a pirated version of ANY software, they're a multi-billion dollar company. Something is wrong with this picture.
and.. and.. You can Click but you Can't Hide!
Firefox &
Well its obvious that just about everyone on... wellll.... the face of the earth has used illegal software at some time or another... (even simply as a matter of convenience, as i'm sure it was in this instance) MS continues to deny this is the case, and this 'news' illuminates their hypocracy...
Rich Gentlemen Hide - The Existential Comic
You assume that the illegal software was used at Microsoft.
But this isn't some vast MS conspiracy here, nor I'm sure does it represent the tip of a huge warez-using portion of MS iceberg.
YOU DENY IT! Why do you deny it? Who said that there was a huge warez-using portion of MS iceberg, hmmm? The article didn't mention it. You seem awful defensive!
What kind of name is fzammette? Is that some sort of 'cover' or 'alias'? Why do you post under an alias, fzammette? Who do you work for? WHO DO YOU WORK FOR!
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Yes, those damn systemverzeichnis! We all get very fuendig when dealing with them.
For listening to MP3s the Windows codec was correct, but it offered only limited Encodierungsfunktionen
Its a well known industry fact that lack of Encodierungsfunktionen causes loss of sound quality.
Then one sees first only letter salad
Mmmm ASCII salad. Goes great with chicken and a glass of red wine so I'm told.
That might only in talking moon for the Windows the Media Player responsible person
Ummm... moon wha?
The statement of Microsoft is still pending, times sees, what says Microsoft for this.
It's true! German Yoda does exist! And he's working for a PC magazine. I knew it!
She's built like a steak house, but she handles like a bistro....
Now whats the bet that M$ will buy out the other company to gain the licenses for it?
/. won't let me quote you b/c you used too many CAPS??
Anyway... Using someones proprietary software is not the issue, using someones pirated proprietary software is the issue.
Ardente veritate incendite tenebras mundi
And how many times has Microsoft's lapdog BSA audited some one, found a piece of Microsoft warez that some employee had pirated and fined the hell out of the company for it? That's what makes this newsworthy.
"The legitimate powers of government extend only to such acts as are injurious to others." Thomas Jefferson.
...Because I'm posting this from a pirated version of XP.
Who needs the linked JPG? Just go to the directory in question: $WINDOWS\Help\Tours\WindowsMediaPlayer\Audio\Wav
...Maybe those who don't have/use Windows might need the Jpeg?
This just in:
According to Steve Jobs, CEO of Apple: "The most common format of audio files on an windows system is 'warezed'." He appears convinced Apple will lead the way in Digital Rights Management and also believes Apple will steal a march on Microsoft in making the digital home a reality because Microsoft "doesn't have the volumes". "There is no way that you can get there with Microsoft. The critical mass has to come from the iPod, or a next-generation video device"
You don't seem to get it, maybe you didn't read the second page. The point was not that Microsoft used Sound Forge. The point is that Microsoft used a warezed version of Sound For
.wav files
Purely presumption. There is nothing in the article that says this was a pirated soundforge, only that the soundforge ID string is present at the end of MS supplied
My legally acquired copy of soundforge makes the exact same string. DEEPZONE IS ONE OF THE ORIGINAL SOUNDFORGE AUTHORS. Did nobody suspect to even consider this and check it?
RST
>SCO style,
So, does this mean that Sony now owns the Windows codebase? Vis-à-vis the "SCO Theory of Copyrights" I mean?
Belief is the currency of delusion.
There you will find a reference to SoundForge 4.5 and also a user called "Deepz0ne" who happen to be one of the founders of an audio software cracking group called Radium.
No, that's just Bob Deepzone (pronounced Deep-ZONE-ay). He works in the MS audio department.
c:\windows\media\*.wav showed several instances of "Sound Forge 4.0" but no sign of a crack.
What bothers me the most is that unofficial copies of tools wound up on in a production enviroment.
I'll really be mad if Longhorn has this problem. Once is an oversight. Ignoring it is just asking everyone to make fun of you.
What's next? They use a cracked compiler that secretly embeds a virus? Oh wait, that'd be redundant.
Why is it that you believe MS should be allowed to do this, but that they are allowed to fine or have imprisoned people who violate MS's rights?
MS stole code, they've done it before, and they're doing it now. Given how Ballmer likes to pretend he's some sort of champion of individual IP-holder's rights, he shouldn't have a problem making this "error" right.
Instead, it's more likely this will take a lawsuit.
What makes this newsworthy is the same thing that makes Limbaugh's drug use news. It's not so much that he's a druge addict (although there is a group of the public who likes public scandal), but it's that he condemns other drug users to jail, but demands leniency for himself.
If MS wants a pass on this, then they should lighten up, remove XP activation bullshit, whatever. Otherwise, to hell with them.
It doesn't prove that. For all you know, they could have purchased the sound from a sound gallery, or the guy doing the editing bought a fake copy of Sound Forge.
Lately on Slashdot, we know that's possible, we've seen enough examples of people ripping off software so they could resell it under a different name.
For now, I'll give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt.
...Or some guy just liked using his cracked copy of SF, and brought it into work to use.
Before you go running off all bitter and self-righeous, you might want to consider the difference between the coporate management and the average joe schmuck employee.
This isn't MS being hypocrites, it is an employee breaking company policy and bringing in outside sofware.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
Now I cannot honestly say that I have never used Warez software again in my life!! Oh wait...nevermind that was never true. Oh well, I'll get over it.
aka
NAIL THEIR ASSES
vodka, straight up, thank you!
Microsoft and the BSA presumes violations before any proof is found, why should I presume any differently?
If someone says he and his monkey have nothing to hide, they almost certainly do.
Just for kicks, do a content search on all *.wav files on your drive, searching for the string 'deepz0ne'.
You may run across more hits. That doesn't necessarily mean that the author of the software they came with used a cracked copy of SoundForge.
For example, the Digital Eel game "Dr. Blob's Organism" demo has the deepz0ne string in "powerdn.wav", but doesn't have it in any of the others. That makes me think they probably just grabbed a sound effect off of a (presumably) royalty-free sound effects library (CD/DVD/online), and that particular sound effect happened to be authored or modified in a warez version of SoundForge.
Similarly the mediaplayer sounds... whose are they, really ? Were they authored/modified by an MS Employee ? If not - where does MS's responsibility come in ? Do -you- check every asset you acquire in good faith belief to see if they may have been touched by a cracked piece of software ?
You may not be new here, but you still don't get it ... if people read this and find it interesting, even as a trivial bit of humor, then /. has done right to post it.
/. as people come to legitimize it as a news site (instead of as an obviously biased site that often posts links to other news sites) is sad.
The fact that the fun is slowly draining out of
I'm not saying I want to see blatantly stupid accusations like "d00d, Microsloth is a bloated pig of a company because of 'X'", and I often see articles that I think are stupid. However when I do so, I have the ability to not read further.
In this case it was actually one of those slightly humorous little tidbits that I got a 1/2 second chuckle out of.
Did anything in the article say it was some vast conspiracy? No, it only pointed out that Microsoft got caught doing something naughty. I'm sure they'll be paying for licenses -quickly- but in the meantime even 1 idiot employee is still an employee and so therefore even if it was a miniscule portion of Microsoft, it was still legitimately labeled.
Besides, if you're just stopping by to see a train wreck, and you consider this evidence of a collision, why aren't you rejoicing? Or you can always just stop, I'm sure that if the server gets hit by a locomotive it will be on CNN a day or two later.
It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
Metadata (data that describe data) can really give you a nightmare for your privacy. If this SoundForge/M$ incident is true, it is another one example which should be taken into consideration by software engineers when designing the next version of their application. There must be some way to delete metadata when the data are given to the consumer, or some way to access metadata only with a password.
Seriously... how is a company, _ANY_ company, doing something like this remotely funny?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
Also just in:
Bill Gates, Really Rich Guy of Microsoft: "Our audio files aren't 'warezed', it's pronounced, 'wave'. Apple will never beat Microsoft in making the digital home reality, and we do have the volume. In fact, Longhorn I'm told, goes to 11. WE GO TO 11, JOBS! 11!"
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
For now, I'll give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt.
Why? they dont give it to anyone else. i say give them a taste of their own medicine.
With all the BILLION$ of dollars M$ has they can't even pony up the money for Sound Forge?
Have you tried getting management to buy the software required for a project? At times it's damn near impossible. You have a deadline and your request is moving at the speed of bureaucracy. Finally you say *fuck it* and get the damn software. This becomes a vicious circle when management asks, "Oh you didn't need us to buy this software before why do you need it now? Just do what you did before."
I'm not saying this is good or bad, this is just the way it happens. Management holds no accountability because it's their job to be a dumb ass. Being a dumb ass isn't illegal and saves the company money. They didn't pirate the software, some peon did.
There is no sanctuary. There is no sanctuary. SHUT UP! There is no shut up. There is no shut up.
Have you ever heard of outsourcing?
... Microsoft prepares WAV files for Windows Media Player tour in-house? Why would you not think they contracted that to some other organization which used pirated Sound Forge to do the Job and MS was ignorant enough not to check the Wav files' content? (How many users would have actually played those files?)
Wondering who found this out and how?
I have seen several examples over the years where it was obvious that the developers used unlicensed tools. The one that I remember the most was a game called Settlers 2. One of the directories had a crack for Scitech Display Doctor that was left on the distribution cds.
The guy who started Sonic Foundry and was the original writer of the SoundForge program got his start at Microsoft. A lot of his work for MS wound up in the multimedia code for Windows 3.11 and Windows95.
Fine way to thank him, MS. I hope Sony takes MS to the cleaners over this.
Knowledge is power. Knowledge shared is power multiplied.
That senator who said physical damage should occur to anyone's computer that had illegal software/music/movies on it? And does anyone remember when they found some JavaScript on his site that was used without permission?
Good times.
MS only provides this for users of legal copies of Windows I would imagine. So soundforge could probably only sue about 20 actual customers worldwide. :P
Well, actually it IS a big deal when they are saying "Use our stuff, not that opensource rabble's stuff, because our stuff is free of copyright and other IP violations, but you can't be too sure with open source". Plus their argument that open source has a dodgy pedigree, but closed source does not.
Oolite: Elite-like game. For Mac, Linux and Windows
Let Sonic Foundry sue them into oblivion destroy. Seriously, the same allegations that windows uses, ie "every copy stolen is lost profit..." should apply here as well. Sonic Foundry should sue them for every single copy of windows that uses these sound files, it looks like they go back to 2000, so that seeems to be a lot of copies.
Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities. - Voltaire
Pardon me for asking a semi-silly question. Where exactly are these sound files used? It looks like it'd be either in the WMP help system or the XP tours. I did a quick check, but I didn't hear anything that sounds like this stuff...
I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
A couple days ago was one of the college tourneys on Jeopardy. The winner was a Comp Eng/Comp Sci major from Carnegie Mellon. His final Jeopardy wager? $1337
Notepad did the trick for me also.
That, in my opinion, is complete and utter bollocks. As a professional sound engineer and media producer, I've been using sound forge almost daily for almost a decade. It has always been pretty much the most versatile, powerful sound editor available.
You are confusing multitracking software with a sound editor. Vegas solves a whole bunch of problems that Sound Forge isn't designed to touch. Likewise, Vegas or other software like Protools can't hold a candle against Sound Forge when you are performing the tasks that Sound Forge was designed to do. That is why Vegas and Sound Forge are so well integrated with each other. They are pretty much two complementary parts of the same package.
Furthermore, I used to work at microsoft, and can attest that Sound Forge was in use there during the period that 4.5 was the current version.
Back around 1985, some company published 4 arcade games for the Apple II. They had used a utility from Broderbund called "Arcade Machine". This was a pretty fun tool for end-users; not many publishers made games with it. Mostly it was useful for making variants of Space Invaders.
When the user pressed ESC on these 4 arcade games, a screen appeared explaining all the keys, and up at the top it said
ARCADE MACHINE
CRACKED! BY THE FREEZE
(or whoever it was.) Good job!
HAHAHAhhaohohohohohehehehehee!
But seriously, folks...
Found the string "Deepz0neSound Forge 4.5" though for some reason I was unable to copy/paste it to this textbox.
An Indian-American Hindu committed to non-violent thought/speech/action alarmed by the global explosion of radical Islam
This won't be too hard to find out with a couple of subpoenas, once Sony takes them to court.
Furthermore, M$ is still liable regardless.
Not sure I understand the original story. From the translation, it seems that MS just created the sound files using some tool in the market (GNU or freeware or priced, it is irrelevent). Whats next, MS boot image JPG was created with IrfanView?
I actually agree with the poster you replied too, but I do not have any mod points to mark your post as funny. That gave me a good laugh.
Um, dude, this is Slashdot. We don't defend Microsoft here. (sheesh!)
Oh, this is a small problem for Microsoft. They will just buy SonicFoundry and have no trials
Does this mean that every file I've created with my (legal) copy of Sound Forge, registered to me, gets distributed with my name embedded in it? What other programs do this? I already know that MS Office docs do -- but I never suspected Sound Forge of something like this.
Software authors/distributors should be required to disclose exactly what personal information is distributed in files which are created with that product. As much as I like to stick it to M$, Sonic Foundry, now Sony, is the one I'm concerned about here.
Force M$ to give up a percentage of every copy of the warez-tanted windows sold to the publisher of SoundForge.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
How does this look for Mircosoft's Genuine Advatage program? They should claim "You should feel save ou have a legal copy of unaltered Microsoft product. You should not have to worry that your software is not pirated by anyone other than us before we sell it." I think somebody should look into how much Microsoft has infriged on others intelectual property. I want my claim for using the faulty code that was copied.(I am not signing up to tear apart windows :P )
Heh, now I can steal M$ software and use their excuse to get out of trouble. If it worked for them, it'll work for me.
You needed justification to steal 'M$' software?Softie ^_^
Now, wherever it'll actually work.. that's another question.
I think we can keep recursing like this until someone returns 1
Dahlmann tightly grips the knife, which he may have no idea how to use, and steps out into the plain.
The animated gif file for "made for IE" logo that Microsoft used for websites back in the 90s was made with an unregistered shareware program. (I don't remember the name of the program. It was about 1996-97 or so.)
Maybe they need to look at how hard it is to purchace software within Microsoft. "Not invented here" is no excuse.
"Trademarks are the heraldry of the new feudalism."
MS audits can be painful to companies that illegally copy these, but there is a difference from one random sound file editor compared to an entire company/corporation intentionally using pirated software.
How will they make this error right? Spend $350 on a license. Voila.
The thing about Limbaugh is that his drug abuse made the news because the prosecutors against him got a hold of his medical records through currently "questionable" or even illegal means. That is the news in that case. Otherwise, if you look into his problem, it is not something he did to have fun or simply because he could. Rather (not Dan Rather...), it was an addiction to pain killers for guess what, pain!? TONS of people get hooked to medicine. There is a huge difference between that and your local crackheads.
If MS wants a pass on this, then in scenarios where they find one sleazy, stupid person in a company was duping the company in question by pirating software under their noses, MS should allow them to simply purchase the licenses. In company wide conspiracies to avoid paying for their licenses, then MS should continue on plowing away.
I have never heard of huge problems with MS when one license was found in question, but I have heard of cases where hundreds of licenses were in question.
It may be time for someone to start sending letters to every winblows user demanding payment for each illegal copy of the software. If investors think M$ will have to pay out $100 per copy of windows for each ip violation, they will run screaming from the stock.
Its not a big deal unless its not MS. http://www.infoworld.com/articles/hn/xml/02/11/27/ 021127hnerniball.html?s=IDGNS
The BSA hammered these guys for not removing software from handme down computers. Passing a computer with photoshop on it to a secretary, and then install photoshop on a new computer can be a oversite.
Installing a warez program is entirely different. MS should be treated like everyone else. Armed US Marshalls should raid every MS site until they can locate this hacked software.
I know I would sleep better at night if that happend.
These are files shipped with XP. Part of that oh so annoying tour.
and I confirmed that DeepzOne is indeed in the files.
red-headed stepchild
I don't think that means what you think it means.
The appropriate term would be red-headed child. It alludes to a child being born that isn't the result of the parents marriage. Father and mother are brunettes and have a red headed son and eyebrows are raised. Pre-boomers phrase I believe.
Just being anal.
[John]
Shit better not happen!
Isn't it possible that it's actually legal because they DID own a license for it? That's one of the reasons BitTorrent and ROM sites aren't killed right away: The files are provided for those who have legal rights to the data, but they needed it in another form (i.e. on a computer) or in another location (for torrenting)
Visit here:
:-D And see if they actually respond to them.
http://www.bsa.org/usa/report/
Say microsoft referred you...
fill it out, and send.
Then tell your friends.
Lets slashdot the BSA about this one? See if we can break a record on the number of reports the BSA ever recieved about something.
It's kind of like weed you can get busted for possession but not for being doped up. In this case media player is doped up but can you prove microsoft is in possession of the goods?
Why aren't we up in arms that Sound Forge watermarks every WAV file that it edits?
On a hunch I converted my entire MP3 collection into waves and ran a search for 'deepz0ne'.
And guess what, all the Mettallica tracks were made with a pirated copy of Sound Forge. Bastards!
Murphy(c)
Looks like they just had them pay for the licenses which couldn't be produced. While I still disagree with the tactic, that's quite different than "fin[ing] the hell out of the company".
If the reverse were to be applied to Microsoft, they'd need to pay for one copy of Sony Sound Forge, which is about $500 MSRP, $250 actual.
Yes, Microsoft is liable and will have to pay Sony (if their employee was the one responsible). However having an employee do something they shouldn't is VERY different from willful infringement.
The problem is people seem to be blaming Microsoft as though they willfuly ripped off Sonic Foundry (now Sony) to save some money. Please, Sound Forge is like $250, it's nothing to them. More likely, whoever was responsible for it, maybe not even an MS employee (they may have contracted this out) just liked SF and used it instead of whatever app they had licensed.
Still their responsibility to pay for it, but don't pretend it was them being evil. They don't monitor the every move of their employees.
Interesting counter question: How many OSS Windows apps are compiled using a warezed version of Visual Studio?
Many companies use unlicensed software and the software companies know of them but ignore it so that they keep competetors out and keep that share of the market. I do not see any major news in that. (To quote Homer Simpson!): WHAT'S YOUR POINT?
This sort of thing happens a lot. The company will actually have the licenses for that particular software (and version of) however, company politics and red tape make it time consuming for a user to get a copy of that software during the time frame needed to complete the project. In the end, the resourceful employee grabs a warezed copy of the software.
The company STILL has a license for the software (unless all licenses are in use) and there are no problems. A company that I worked for had a real methodic scheme for documenting all software licenses and it could take upwards of two weeks for requested software to be installed on a computer as we made sure there are available licenses.
I lost a lot of respect for Limbaugh over his drug addiction.
When you're in the public eye you know that people are going to pay closer attention to any of your fuck-ups.
Microsoft is always complaining about other people warezing their products. Remember when they claimed that "Linux PCs" were primarily used as platforms to run pirated Windows?
Now that they've fucked up, everyone should be talking about it.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
There are a lot of audio apps out there that cross functionality. Sony (formerly Sonic Foundry) has Sound Forge, Steinberg has Wavelab, Adobe has Audition, and so on. Well audio people still have their preferences. Just because you could do it in Wavelab doesn't mean you maybe don't like Sound Forge better.
So the employee may have just decided to install his warez'd version of SF and use that instead whatever was provided to him. He figured it wouldn't matter since it got the job done all the same. Well, he'll learn the hard way if he still works for MS.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
The real problem is that Microsoft never show a similar level of empathy towards any organistion they find infringing on their software licenses, so why should we feel compelled to give them any sympathy in this situation?
Although I think your comparison to Rush Limbaugh is true, I don't know if its one hundred percent appropriate. In his defense, I can guarantee in the same position, most of us would act similarly. He was embarassed in front of the entire world, and as such, may say some things that don't appear to be right.
Microsoft, on the other hand, doesn't have an excuse like that. Whether or not you might consider that a valid excuse, people do make mistakes due to emotions, companies should not.
Nobody has to use a Warezed version of Visual Studio. Between the .NET SDK, and the Visual C++ 7.1 Toolkit, and the PlatformSDK, you can download all the tools you need to build (including the optimizing C compiler) for free.
Even if you have a legal copy of Visual Studio you should be doing your automated build process with the free tools anyway.
most large companies these days have heavy duty software license auditing and control systems. i find it hard to believe that ms doesn't have such a system.
therefore it really seems to me that this is probably an outside contractor or marketing company... who will probably never get business from ms again...
I wish someone would mod the parent up. The final sentence about pirated VS.NET versions being used to compile OSS is dead on.
$45 per U Colocation Special
Isn't it entirely possible that they asked an external firm to put together a few sounds to be used? And then Microsoft bought the sound bites from them?
The Internet is full. Go Away!!!
I don't think its a wise idea to give Microsoft some potential excuses that they could use.
There is no difference. Repeat after the BSA. THERE IS NO DIFFERENCE. Your joe schmuck employees == your corporate managment == your entire company.
When it's Microsoft's precious "IP" in question, there are no excuses. This is not speculation, this is not opinion, this is a trail of tears weaving back and forth across the country with literally thousands and thousands of people and business, big and small, who lost a few of their holograms, that can vouch.
When Microsoft has its pet army of jackbooted thugs (the BSA) "auditing" the daylights out of you (or your elementary school, or your police station, or your old folks home) they don't buy this excuse. It doesn't matter if you bought those 5 computers used and the seller didn't give you the stickers. It doesn't matter if some 2 week contractor who didn't even speak English warezed Office _and_ stole a box of white out, it's still your business' problem, guilty until proven innocent, "Civil and Criminal Penalties," $500,000 for each count, etc etc... You're still staring down the barrel of a devastating lawsuit or a "relicensing" on extremely favorable terms...
So yes, duh, absoloutely PLEASE run off and for the record we are not nearly bitter or self-righteous enough.
Want to Know How to Cheat the GPL? Read On!
Sticking feathers up your butt does not make you a chicken - Tyler Durden
Microsoft CEO Steve Ballmer was quoted as saying, "Well, we consider this a valid liscencse enforcement practice, so I guess we have to put up with it. We're just glad noone ran 'strings' on our TCP/IP stack for 'Regents of the University of California.'"
'Nuff said! Did anything interesting happen today?
I think Microsoft obviously needs to be shut down for a few weeks until they can produce authentic license certificates for ever single piece of software on every machine...
What about it? What's good for the goose is good for the gander.
Really now, playing the percentages, assuming they pick the hottest woman, I'd take a girls of [insert any significantly large company] calendar.
Girls of Enron...
Girls of Texaco...
Girls of Smith-Kline-Beechum...
Stupid sexy Flanders.
Bye!
SeqBox
Windows is always acusing the open source of the posibility frok others to include backdoors. But what if the program they used left malicious code.
There are no stupid questions, Just a lot of inquisitive idiots. (from a good friend)
http://membres.lycos.fr/wishmmaster/Sound/ The .nfo and the setup files :)
Someone make a mirror of that page, I can see it going down soon!
So, by your way of thinking, every parent who's ever had a kid commit a crime, should be arrested to the full extent of the law. This, even though the parent(s) may be in law enforcement and/or members of the clergy and entirely unaware of the activities of their offspring.
It must be terribly hard to oversee the daily activities of an organization--the size of MS--down to the level of individual employees. On the one hand, if they tried, they'd be blasted for micro-management. Now they're being blasted for not paying close enough attention. This is MAREKEDLY different from an individual who uses stolen software.
if MS wants a pass on this, then they should lighten up, remove XP activation bullshit, whatever.
As I recall, MS hasn't prevented stolen copies of Windows XP from working, applying patches or updating with service packs. Are you saying they should bend over backwards to help people with stolen software???
No man's an island, unless he's had too much to drink and wets the bed.
One wonders if the nororious (now) distribution of the material created with the stolen program, and the (arguable) profit which Microsoft made by its distribution of the output from the stolen work, could raise significant fincial liability...?
That shoudl be the paultry $150,000 for copyright violation at least.
SoundForge should, at least, be able to call a BSA audit on Microsoft...
Oh, I just got a warm fuzzy at imagining Microsoft having to submit to a BSA audit. After all, if they think it's good for us, isn't it good for them?
I wonder what the bounty would be, and how fast we can flood the BSA with "tips"? After-all, we *have* the evidence distributed ever-so-widely... 8-)
What you want to bet that the BSA wouldn't do their jobs *this* *time*?
Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
--"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
I won't get into "who executes the executioner?", and skip to your final paragraph.
Many drugs take 15-20 years to develop; these companies, for one example, need stronger protection otherwise they've no motivation to develop new medication. There's a world out there beyond PCs. It includes lots of reformed drug addicts and drink-drivers, who live in 21st-century countries whose governments don't kill the citizens.
Author, Shell Scripting : Expert Re
I hate to defend them, but I remember seeing something a while ago that microsoft contracted out for certian audio needs. If this was the case with these sounds it's not acctually them who nicked the software but what ever person who they paid to produce the sounds.
(Score:0, Interesting)
You see it's like this: (this is purely fictional)
Let's say the RIAA, led by Hilary Rosen, sued 13 year-old kids for thousands for copy infringement.
Then later on, we found out that Ms. Rosen's son had hundreds of BetaMax copies of video rentals in her home.
It is not outrageous, because her son infringed on copyrights. It is outrageous that Ms. Rosen holds some unknown kid to some higher standard than her own son. It would show that the copyright is not what she cared about, only suing 13 year-olds for thousands.
So Deepz0ne has his name 9 times on every machine running XP. 72 bytes per machine, he must be taking up a several gigabytes across the globe, very impressive. I don't think there are many names buried in Windows now since Microsoft banned easter eggs. Bar Wes Cherry who appears to have his name in every release with Solitaire.
When someone 'downloads' a 'cracked' copy of a 'program', it often comes 'bundled' with a 'user name' and 'registry key' combination that 'unlocks' the 'program', like the annoying letters and numbers you need to get MS Office to work when you install it legally.
It's very likely that SoundForge includes the 'user name' that was used to 'register' it with any files created with it, which is what the original post was complaining about. In this case, the 'warez monkey' at 'M$' probably used a 'key' created by 'DeepzOne', so SoundForge 'thinks' that 'DeepzOne' is the 'warez monkey's' 'user name'. It's unlikely that 'DeepzOne' actually modified the way SoundForge saves files. No one is alleging that the 'cracker' actually works for 'M$'. They just think it's ironic that 'M$' employees are 'warez monkeys'.
Note that this is just stuff I 'heard' about 'cracked programs', and none of this is from 'first hand experience' with 'illegal activities'.
DEEPZONE IS ONE OF THE ORIGINAL SOUNDFORGE AUTHORS.
;) The
:)"
:-P
In that case, he's both a cracker and a SF author, or there are two Deepz0ne's.
Just a few matches at Google Groups:
"Q : I'm trying to install Wavelab but i cant find the serial #
A : Run the installer and actually READ the screens this time.
installer gives you the serial. (btw its 'Deepz0ne-Radium-1998-QCZ')"
--------
" Bug fixes : Long filename fix, better synch, noisereduction fix, etc.
Sek'd increased the copy protection but not enough to stop Deepz0ne
--------
"Radium presents
WaveZip v1.12 regged
(c) Gadget Labs LLC.
Cracker : Deepz0ne + int69
Supplier : Sandor"
--------
And strangely enough, this Deepz0ne cracker was active in the sound editor scene.
Beware: In C++, your friends can see your privates!
It is possible for MS to be "Deepz0ne" ...well an employee at MS or be a part of their crew. I mean MS programmers are very talented especially in windows software.
Just a thought...is unlikely
Honestly I went through some of the comments to see if this had be raised, but not all of them.
Balmer on mp3's on iPods
Rainer
Windows 2000 - from the guys who brought us edlin
Microsoft pirates software -- this is news?
.21) -- it removed the stolen code.
Roughly ten years ago, Microsoft was found, in a court of law, to have knowingly stolen code from Stac Electronic's popular "Stacker" whole-disk compression utility, and used it in their DoubleSpace utility. That's the reason for Microsoft MS-DOS 6.21 (I think it was
Stac won the lawsuit, but it was too late -- the damage had already been done, and Stac went out of business. The 800-pound gorilla won again.
dragonhawk@iname.microsoft.com
I do not like Microsoft. Remove them from my email address.
This was a hacked version, after all.
then one sees first only letter salad - clear, is also a sound file.
Letter salad. Yup, I'm filing that one away.
I used to use SoundForge4.5 Radium release (having since bought SF5 and 6) and I checked out some old files that I sampled in to 4.5.
In wmpaud5.wav on WinXp the last bytes are: LISTR INFOICRD 2000-04-06 IENG Deepz0ne ISFT Sound Forge 4.5;Sound Forge 4.0In my samples from 4.5 I had: LIST0 INFOICRD 2000-01-09 ISFT Sound Forge 4.5
And on 5.0 and 6, there appears no plain text meta info.
How many OSS Windows apps are compiled using a warezed version of Visual Studio?
I guess quite few. I'd bet most are done on student editions.
Malike Bamiyi wanted my assistance.
Interesting counter question: How many OSS Windows apps are compiled using a warezed version of Visual Studio?
All the OSS Windows projects I've worked on (like the one I'm hacking right now) have gone to significant lengths to be compatible with MINGW32.
This is actually quite handy, because it means I can cross-compile from Linux. (Yup, I'm writing Windows code, but compiling it with a Linux compiler and testing it with WINE... ain't OSS great?!)
Yep, you can do that. But then you'll spend so much trying find a usable set of runtime libraries in that mishmash, and then figuring out whether you're actually licensed to redistribute them, you'll end up wishing you hadn't. (Each of the SDKs is cleverly packaged with different incompatible and irregular subsets of the Windows runtime libraries, just to make it so hard to figure out that you'll run out and buy their non-free development tools out of frustration.)
Plus, if you use any outside code at all, it will almost invariably assume that you have the MS IDE environment to build it. You're then faced with rewriting the build process for that code from scratch.
At end of sentence in German the verb you always put. German grammar use while English speaking if talk like Yoda you want. Like charm it works.
I hope they get sued. It'll take what, 1/1000th of MS's assets?
That's true, but we should remember what that "several millions of dollars" actually costs. It's easy for people who have not been raped like that to not really understand. It's not just that the company has to pay a lot of money. It's that the company becomes insolvent, even after they raid the pension plan. That means people lose their job and a large portion of their life savings. Many times people who lose their job go on to lose their house, get divorced and have all sorts of other bad things happen to them before they get on with their lives. Raping small companies, like the BSA does, does really bad things to real people. It's more than money, it's people's lives they screw with.
Friends don't help friends install M$ junk.
I used to support adobe apps for a living - I know for a fact Acrobat, Illustrator, Photoshop, Indesign and Framemaker containg information similar to this (usually only the user profile name though).
I always hear it as red-headed stepchild.
Me too. As in, "Beat him like a red-headed stepchild." It's awful, but it's funny. And yes, I do have red hair.
So long as the files you generate are plain audio files and don't need fancy stuff like playlists, you can ensure that the WAV files you distribute don't contain any metadata by running them through one of the programs available that strip fancy WAV files down to "canonical" format. Here's a shareware program for MS Windows, and here is C source for one for GNU/Linux. These all work by eliminating everything other than the header, the format chunk, and the data chunk. These programs exist because there is a lot of software that doesn't know how to parse full WAV files. Of course, this won't eliminate "metadata" embedded in the audio data.
Hatch Wants to Fry Traders' PCs
Orrin Hatch, Software Pirate?
"And a voice was screaming: 'Holy Jesus! What are these goddamn animals?'" - HST
It says "http://slashdot.org/search.pl?topic=133" Please Drive Through
The rule is that the verb comes at the end of a German clause (subject-object-verb order), except for the first word of the main clause's verb, which comes "second" (that is, immediately after the initial noun phrase or adverb phrase). So in a main clause it's subject-or-adverb first-word-of-verb rest-of-sentence rest-of-verb.
Irish, on the other hand, goes the other way: first-word-of-verb subject rest-of-verb object.
So now, every software author should demand that Microsoft will perform an audit on all its computers to make sure that the don't violate said software's license, with the author and some law enforcement present...
Unfortunately, we don't have the legal clout or the resources of the BSA.
However, if enough people shout loudly enough and long enough, it will become a PR nightmare for Microsoft.
The founding member of the BSA is a crook. Hmmm....
Some of you are forgetting - the MS-Windows files are not "tainted."
It appears that Microsoft illegally used a tool to create audio files. This does NOT "poison" the audio files, legally speaking. It's the moral equivalent of using a compiler but NOT statically binding any other proprietary libraries.
Microsoft IS potentially in deep doo-doo with Sony, and they may be liable for whatever Sony would've been paid if they'd licensed it properly, plus other damages as allowed by law.
IF Sony sold it on a "per seat" basis, then Microsoft is probably out a few hundred or maybe a few thousand dollars plus additional damages as allowed by law.
However, IF Sony only licensed it on a royalty basis, then M$ could be in for a much bigger bill. Given the nature of the program, given that AFAIK it doesn't embed any useful proprietary data, and given it's current $500 pricetag, I think "actual" damages will be limited to $500 per developer who should've been licensed. Microsoft could legitmately argue that they only needed 1 license.
Copyright law allows for multiplied damages and statuatory damages in a case like this, so "real" damages could hit 5 or maybe 6 figures easily. However, Sony will likely not be able to tell the jury "look at the millions of people who have files made by this bogus software" and collect additional "actual" damages based on those figures.
Here's another interesting thought:
Theoretically, Microsoft might be in trouble for millions of counts of violating trademark law. However, since the trade marks were buried in files that most people don't see, and since it didn't damage Sony in any meaningful way, that won't win Sony more than $1.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
US Democracy:The best person for the job (among These pre-selected choices...)
I'd imagine Microsoft have many, probably hundreds, of legally obtained licenses for SoundForge purchased by different departments and Microsoft offices around the world. Whether or not this particular employee used a pirated copy doesn't mean any laws were broken, I'd wager that Microsoft is amply licensed to use the software.
Self-referential sigs are rarely entertaining.
"All I did was piss people off by pointing out how stupid and inefficient they were "
Yeah, can you believe some people get pissed off when you call them idiots?
Don't they realize how *smart* you are?
Sheesh. Cannot believe these people!.
I am soooo going to laugh when someone runs Windows Update and goes to check the .wav files again and sees they are the same except the Deepz0ne watermark is gone. I bet those Microsoft employees are really good with a hex editor.
Then buy freaking VC++ 7.1 for $100 at any local software place.
-]Phreak Out[-
No, its another absolute proof of the complete and utter incompetence of microsoft QC. Not that it should suprise anyone.
I'm sure they'll be paying for licenses -quickly- but in the meantime even 1 idiot employee is still an employee and so therefore even if it was a miniscule portion of Microsoft, it was still legitimately labeled.
One license per PC in their corporation?
In their overseas holdings as well?
mefus
In Open Society, GPL Software frees YOU!
Since I see legions of slashdotters all crowing about their massive, illegal stashes of MP3's, all downloaded with the intent to fsck the RIAA, their large collection of ripped DVD's downloaded to dorm rooms, I fully expect to see those same legions saying "Yeah! Alright! Microsoft is one of us!"
Or will I find a double standard?
Hmmm...this is Slashdot, where hypocrisy is an art form, so I guess I don't have to think too long on that last question.
If anyone out there is even trying to insinuate that Microsfot in some way is condoning piracy because of this, you're just a little too eager to sling mud. Microsoft has thousands of employees strung across hundreds of campuses worldwide. Bill Gates can't personally oversee each and every one of them. If some idiot decides to bring in his warezed copy of Sound Forge because he doesn't want to go to the trouble of putting in a purchase order for the real thing, does that make Microsoft complicit in piracy? I guess on Slashdot it does, where anything and everything negative about Microsoft gets full-press treatment, and anything and everything negative about Linux or Open Source gets a complete pass.
Like I said, it's an art form here.
In the end they will lay their freedom at our feet and say to us, Make us your slaves, but feed us. - Fyodor Dostoyevsky
I thought Microsoft used Bill Brown to compose all those dreamy melodies:X P_Tour6bed. mp3
http://www.billbrownmusic.com/soundBB/
Where the reference to an illegal copy of SoundForge was used?
$250 is for the right to use - NOT resell.
Doesn't this just go to reinforce the value of piracy as a positive, market-driving force?
Deepz0ne contributed to the success of a Microsoft product by allowing the piracy of a key component of another company's software. Couldn't the piracy of other products also lead to a net positive good?
I'm not talking law, here, of course.
THIS THING CAN TURN ON A DIME, MACROSSZERO STYLE ALSO FUCK BETA, ~NYORON
You had respect for Limbaugh before that? Scary.
(BTW, the cheap versions of their C++ tools don't include an optimizing compiler. That still requires manual cobbling and downloads.)
Windows Media Player also has a bunch of stolen QuickTime code, and rumor is Apple was about to sue MS for upwards of 1 billion dollars back in 1997, but then Steve Jobs saw and opportunity and stepped in. He told MS that Apple would drop the issue, if MS agreed to 5 years of continued development of Office for Mac. Plus about $150 million in cash. MS happly complied.
So this isn't the first time.
Jesus, who cares? You can develop software with free tools using the microsoft SDKs. They come with documentation. Or, you could use OpenGL and SDL for all I care, but the point is that you don't need it. They probably give you GCC with the system now but last time I checked Solaris didn't have a free compiler either, you had to run GCC. You tracked down a binary GCC, and built a new toolchain with it, then built it with itself and installed that. Unfortunately, you can't do the same thing with Windows :)
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
I smell money comming on the way to SoundForge
- - - - - .
"SHIT! Now we have to go and buy SonicFoundry!"
Chas - The one, the only.
THANK GOD!!!
... assuming that the file is a true warez copy that was never paid for? I have a number of (in fact, I'd say the majority) programs that have "warez" registrations... yet I own perfectly legitimate copies of the software. Why? Because it's easier to grab the serial numbers off of #serialz than it is for me to find the #@#$%#@ serial number on the CD jewl case which I may or may not have any longer... or god forbid it was on a piece of paper, because that son of a bitch is LONG gone.
I'm not saying MS or whoever did this has a legit copy of SF, but it's perfectly feasible and quite possible that they have a legit copy and are using a warez serial, simply because it's easier than keeping track of your "legit" serial every time you have to reinstall.
Are you saying that there would be a different licence to distribute files created with the software than just the licence for using it?
www.timcoleman.com is a total waste of your time. Never go there.
assuming the file was created by MS with a pirated version, wouldn't MS have no IP over the files created with it? If it turned out that legally someone else (ie Sony) had the IP on these files then they could really give MS the asshole and demand they either pay big $$ for royalties or remove the files from every version of Windows. I don't think that would be a cheap exercise
I can actually see a couple of possible ways for MS to be hurt by this. Though they are both long shots, but heres to dreamin'
The BSA could come in and do its dirty work, but as has already been mentioned, MS is the BSA's daddy. The BSA would not want to bite the hand that feeds it. Though I wonder if an anonymous MS employee(s) have ever reported piracy from within before?
The other way MS could have some problems is related to their recent speal about protecting all endusers from lawsuits that may stem from IP violations.
What we need is SONY to sue every single MS Windows user. That way MS will be forced to protect the masses, while wasting copious amounts of cash.
The key to this scenerio is it would not matter who, used the cracked software. Contract employee, full time person or even if it was from a royalty free sound bite collection. The fact is that MS distributed it, and end users continually derive endless hours of enjoyment listening to the system sounds (Maybe we should call the RIAA to, because the artists may not have been properly compensated).
Will either of these happen? I very much doubt it. But at least this thread gives us a little pleasure imagining a bad things happening to the worlds favorite monoplistic bastards.
-MS2K
"It must be terribly hard to oversee the daily activities of an organization--the size of MS--down to the level of individual employees" Excuse my lack of sympathy but Boo-F*cking-Hoo. I don't care if its very difficult, not economically feasible or downright impossible, if MS are demanding it from others then its their responsibilty to look after it within their own ranks.
They don't monitor the every move of their employees.
They save that precious gift for their users.
I think the real point is that even though copying is illegal, there is nothing inherently wrong with doing it. And it's far more evil to restrict free copying than there is to freely copy.
Deep inside we know that, Microsoft knows that, and the people who work for them know it - and today that truth manifested itself in just another way.
The problem is people seem to be blaming Microsoft as though they willfuly ripped off Sonic Foundry
Naa they don't - we are just laughing our heads off *g*
If Google really cared they would fix Android Chrome to reflow text, instead of discriminating
I myself was thinking of making a program pasting a premade footer to a wave in order to make a looped wave for half-life. I would probably remove any ascii string though. I guess they could/should have opened and saved it with their own soundrecorder to eliminate the footer. Obviously the person making the sounds weren't fully aware of what sort of information that can be stored in a wave file. Shame on you! ;p
I was under the impression that if you owned a program you could use a "No-CD" Patch or "Crack" on it (this means not having to put the CD in the CD-ROM). And to stop the argument that you don't have to own the program to do it or you MS would need a copy for each computer, dont forget its a corporation. Programs tend to be sold in liscences for many machines especially to schools/busnisess. Now this doesn't mean they haven't used an illegal program but the point is there are too many variables to jump to conclusions. But unless someone can show me where it says using a crack for a application/program you own is illegal I'm not gonna assume that this is true.
Apparently there is already a corporate policy against such things and I'm sure the source of the "illegal" file(s) will be determined and dealt with appropriately. Are you suggesting a camera in everyone's office/cubicle/home and a master "overseer" to police the actions of all employees"? I suspect they're not "demanding" any more from others than what they expect from their own employees.
No man's an island, unless he's had too much to drink and wets the bed.
Yes. That's exactly what many companies audited by Microsoft/BSA have been saying. Doesn't matter in that case, though, they are still stuck with hefty fines. All it takes is suspicion (not proof) that you've pirated a single piece of software and they can knock on your door (or bust it down with the Secret Service (?)) and force an audit.
If only this was all that was required for other companies audited by Microsoft/BSA. But unfortunately, it isn't. Not by a long shot.
Oceania has always been at war with Eastasia.
Remember when a Utah search engine ("beautiful Utah") he linked to got changed to redirect to porno sites?
You had respect for Limbaugh before that?
Yes.
Scary.
Seek out a psychotherapist. Phobias can be conquered.
LK
"Hi. This is my friend, Jack Shit, and you don't know him." - Lord Kano
I thought DZ was the guy who cracked it (read an interview separate from the article)? Doesn't sound like he wrote it to me!
Comment removed based on user account deletion
There is only one way to tell how rampant Microsoft's piracy practices are....
Search Microsoft's offices and sieze all computers as evidence. After they are inspected, they can be returned unharmed with no damage done.
We must protect the intellectual property that drives our economy. Any minor inconvenience this causes Microsoft is certainly well justified.
Correct me if I'm wrong but using some warezed serial number from the Internet doesn't mean that they don't have a proper license. A license is really just a piece of paper, isn't it?
I have seen this done at many places:
Me to boss: I just tried Something 2000 from Someone Inc. and it works pretty well. It costs 500$ and I need it to do project Doomed.
Boss: *deals with bureaucracy to get the said license.*
Me: *never sees any of it but still uses the software, license stays burried in some clerk's files.*
No, I'm not trying to defend this kind of attitude, I'm just saying that having a bad serial in your software does not mean you haven't paid for it.
But, I'm not really sure if having the license means you can use the software nomater what S/N was typed at the install.
(Specifically: What about computers built with Norton Ghost and the like?)
Tell that to the BSA!
Does "thou shalt not steal" ring any bell :) ?
The Raven
don't forget the girls of Kotex!
An internal system operation returned the error "The operation completed successfully.".
Are you sure that wherever you bought your copy was selling legal copies? There's a booming business in selling "warez" as legal software.
Only an install. The difference is almost semantic however.
But, of course, they only used the full pirated software package "because of the bureaucracy." So, what makes you suppose that they stopped there - that they even bother to get a complete licence for this software?
With this logic, the only way to prove that they weren't using pirated software is to shut down microsoft for the week, and count the number of copies of sound forge on every machine, and count the number of licences purchased. Since microsoft would never let this happen, they are free to use whatever pirated software they impunity, since a count of the software is impossible.
We can't moderate people "incomprehensible" because that would be "redundant" on slashdot. ;-)
I've got more mod points and GMail invi
Yes; but the BSA, which is dominated by Microsoft, has no sympathy for that argument when a company is "audited" and found to be in violation of its licenses, when it's quite plausible that he company merely is poor at record keeping and most likely has actually paid for the licences; or left unused copies of software installed on machines when swapping hardware around, and so on. They still get the whole cavity search, perp walk and massive fine (or compulsory purchase to avoid such) treatment.
The worst thing is I feel like I lost a huge chunck of my vocabulary. I am seriously thinking of seeking professional help for it as I get frustrated. I know the word I want to use, but I cannot recall the pronunciation or just end up using the wrong word in it's place. Is there any help for a Help Desk Vet? Am I the only one? . . . Wait, don't answer that second question.
So, by your way of thinking, every parent who's ever had a kid commit a crime, should be arrested to the full extent of the law.
That makes no sense. I'm not talking about arrested and punished to the fullest extent of the law, I'm talking about reciprocity--if it's good for the goose, it's good for the gander. Also, I'm talking about adults and corporations, not parents and kids (where we rationally give leniency to kids because they are, by definition, immature).
It must be terribly hard to oversee the daily activities of an organization--the size of MS--down to the level of individual employees.
That's their problem, not mine. If they want to benefit from IP laws, they will have to submit to those same laws. If they *can't* (or won't), then why should I respect their (so-called) IP rights?
Are you saying they should bend over backwards to help people with stolen software?
Your powers of reasoning are flawed. Nowhere did I say MS should help anyone, let alone that they bend over backwards to help people with stolen (sic) software.
Sound Forge, and all Sonic Foundry, now Sony, products include the explicit right to distribute any work created with them. That's the whole point. Rather useless to ahve a sound editor that says you can use it, but not do anything with what you create.
Or did you think they were distributing Sound Forge, in which case RTFA. If they were, Sony would know. It's powerful software.
ohhh Shit, microsoft is gonna get fucked!
Some activities ran quite a lot faster on my 386DX40 since relatively it had a slow hdd and a fast cpu - so stacker made quite an positive difference for most apps.
Oh fer christ sakes quit being so melodramatic; the case was about a hashing patent [that stac bought]. Essentially Stac claimed to own any algorithm that looks up matches in LZ compression in O(1) time and won on that basis. The code was not the same or even similiar, in fact, totally different algorithms, only similarity was run-time efficiency.
Oh, and if you REALLY want free economy to work,
There is no such thing as a free economy.
end government subsidies for various big businesses (airlines come to mind)
Then say goodbye to air travel. Some things aren't profitable, but are still desirable. Roads, schools, libraries and fire departments come to mind.
I don't disagree with you in general, corporations are granted too much artificial power, but some artificial is necessary by definition (all corporations are sanctioned by the state). The flaw with pure libertarianism is that is sacrifices a better world for a free world, and a truly free world is a myth. We should certainly strive for maximum freedom, but a dogmatic adherence to "freedom at all costs" is doomed to failure.
To bring this back to the subject at hand, MS is granted far too much power and the individual is burdened with too much responsibility. You did touch on the reason when you mentioned conservatism. Conservatives (specifically neocons) worship the corporation--all must sacrifice at the alter of business. Some actually believe this makes the world better. It doesn't. You want to know why people work longer hours for less pay, in spite of all this technology that is supposed to make life easier? It's because we (as ordained and legislated by the neocons) must serve the economy first. The folly is that what good is a strong economy if you're too busy to enjoy it?
...by pushing open software. For small things like editing a wav, cropping images, etc., even management in my enormous microsoft shop love the free stuff. Imagemagick saved me an enourmous amount of time, as has the gimp and various other packages. But when in comes to servers or compilers, it better come in shrinkwrap :)
ascii art
Do you have a specific example of Limbaugh condeming drug use? Actually, I think he has always been mute on the subject, which may be telling in and of itself.
I have no quotes. Do you know of a Limbaugh transcript archive?
He has ragged on Mayor Marion Berry and Robert Downey, Jr. for their drug use. He's a huge hypocrite. He defends marriage against gays due to the rationale that marriage is devised to raise children, ignoring gays *with* children, and the fact that he's been married 3 times (and is either in the middle of, or over with, his third divorce), and has no kids.
This is the problem with legislating morals. You can get anyone to say, "yeah, sure, people shouldn't do that" (like "people shouldn't copy MS software"), but when the loudest proponents of laws enforcing morals (like Limbaugh or MS) break those laws (which is inevitably going to happen), they hoot and holler reasons why they are immune.
It's one of the most disgusting things I've ever encountered. How many people have been heavily fined, or have been put in jail for personal drug use? For violating IP laws (including against MS)? Now when MS (or Rush) violates the laws, they should be subject to the exact same harsh punishment (actually, the entire laws should be wiped from the books, or at least rewritten more rationally and prisoners granted clemency).
Otherwise, you are just using "conservative" stereotypes.
Limbaugh *is* a conservative stereotype.
Who knows what happened? It could be files they bought from somewhere else for all we know.
What's that got to do with it? Has somehow MS not violated IP laws in that case?
How will they make this error right? Spend $350 on a license. Voila.
$350 (or whatever) times each infringing copy. But it's worse than that. There is punative damages. Otherwise why would anyone license a product if all you had to do was pay what you'd pay anyway?
The thing about Limbaugh is that his drug abuse made the news because the prosecutors against him got a hold of his medical records through currently "questionable" or even illegal means.
That was never what made it newsworthy. It *is* what Limbaugh wants us to think is the issue (duh). The thing is, not two months before the story broke, he was going on about the gay guys arrested in Texas for having sex in their own home. He was saying that the law's the law, and there's no right to privacy in the Constitution (even though it's right there in the fourth amendment, what an asshole). Now that his privacy has been violated, he's crying foul. Fuck him, either send him up river or fix the law.
That is the news in that case. Otherwise, if you look into his problem, it is not something he did to have fun or simply because he could. Rather (not Dan Rather...), it was an addiction to pain killers for guess what, pain!? TONS of people get hooked to medicine. There is a huge difference between that and your local crackheads.
There is no difference in the human factor (which you are addressing). When some ghetto teen gets hooked on crack, what's the difference? They have pain (emotional pain. btw, all physical pain is actually emotion), and they are taking what is essentially a pain killer.
I have never heard of huge problems with MS when one license was found in question, but I have heard of cases where hundreds of licenses were in question.
Windows Source Code Seller Arrested This guy is guilty of far less infringement than MS has been in the past, and is currently, according to the article.
From warning.wav (Steam / Half-Life) Chia Chin Lee, Sound Designer for Valve Software
Also locustswarmloop.wav (Warcraft III) Tracy Bush, Sound Designer for Blizzard
So yeah, the grandparent poster must be trolling, or hoping to defend his own software piracy.
Someone correct me if I'm imagining things, but wasn't Soundforge 4.5 offered as a free download BY Sony?? ... cuz not long ago someone pointed me at Sony as a source for a [legit] free copy, but I couldn't find it on brief look at their site.
:)
Of course, they may have been imagining things too for all I know
~REZ~ #43301. Who'd fake being me anyway?
Ahhh now I understand why they say the TCO of Windows is lower than Linux'...
- In Memoriam: Jeroen de Bruin (1972-2004), bye bro
That's a good point. I searched for the 'deepz0ne' text in all of my wav files. The game Painkiller has it in one file, 'electro-mp-loop.wav' and Alone In The Dark 4 has it in 'blank.wav'. For these cases, I'm sure it was some file they got from the public domain, since it was only the one file.
In Microsoft's case, it was in all of the files in that directory. So either they used an illegal copy of the software to produce them, or they downloaded them all from some public domain depository that other's had created.
How can you prove either case?
New critical updates are now available for your computer. Click Next to install the following upates:
Critical update for Windows XP Tour
Install this update to protect your computer from, um, really bad stuff. Once this updates is installed it cannot be removed. Ever (really). This update will also delete all WAV files stored on your computer. After installing this update the URL http://slashdot.org may become unavailable. This is behavior by design.
"What do you despise? By this are you truly known." --Princess Irulan, Manual of Muad'Dib
/)
What on earth justification with that? Do you know of any major OSS projects that are even compiled on VS.NET, let alone a pirated copy?
Lets look at the facts:
1) The majority of OSS developers use linux, or have their work ported to linux.
2) VS.NET doesn't run on linux
3) gcc does run on Windows.
4) Even if they had some mad reason to use VS.NET, it's only about $150 max (I'm talking Australian here, in the US it'll be probably half that). OSS projects are colaborative efforts - surely someone would have a copy of VS.NET. For that matter, I do (even though I don't actually use Windows personally, I have a copy for work purposes), so any OSS projects that I would contribute to would be able to have a compilation of VS.NET.
Looking at these facts, why on earth would OSS projects take the time to pirate a copy of VS.NET and port the code to work with VS.NET (which doesn't run on linux, and isn't as good as VS 6.0 anyway) when they don't even need to, and there are plenty of OSS equivalents anyway, that are, incidentely, more established and generally give better results?
Please get a clue before posting something like that. VS.Net isn't the only compiler in the world, it isn't even the first. While you may live in a Microsoft centric environment, most open source developers do not, and just that point makes your point seem rediculous.
This just shows what you can do with your newly installed operating system!
It doesn't matter how many licenses they have. Were they held to the same fire as the rest of us (not that I expect them to be) the only quesiton is how the following mathematical expression would be evaulated:
c opies]) * Henious_Penalty * 2
(Total_Copies - Number_Of_Provable_Licenses[attached_to_spesific_
Which nets money owed, one half for each of BSA and Copyright holder.
See, the BSA, again were they to treat Microsoft impartially, would not audit for "SoundForge" the'd audit for all sorts of stuff. And you just *know* that there is warze out the ynig-yang there. [Since they dont have to track MS products for license compliance, they almost cirtianly have grown into the habbit of not tracking *any* licenses.]
Plus, as we know, If you copy music or a movie, even if you own the DVD, you are still a pirate. So the fact that they warzed SoundForge isn't forgiven by having any other licenses for it, even by count.
That is a bit like "scoring" some drugs on the street, getting caught, and pleading a valid perscription. The act is a crime, which isn't oblivated by license.
IMHO. BTW IANAL.
Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
--"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
/*Microsoft Update script 11-13-2005
/* Ok so it's crapy sudo code but it't the next security update I am shure */
Remove all evidence of Use of sound forge
*/
find *.wav > wavelist.txt
for each line in wavelist.txt
search for "LISTB INFOICRD 2000-04-06 IENG
Deepz0ne ISFT Sound Forge 4.5" > found
if found then remove
next line
Someone burn them a copy of Audacity and send them the CD...
AT&ROFLMAO
Checked myself:
LISTB INFOICRD 2000-04-06 IENG Deepz0ne ISFT Sound Forge 4.5
Hmm. Checked with notepad, and then cooledit.
Since you can change the producer or whatever RIFF
field anybody could patch this to anything they
desire...
Come on guys, even the drones at MS have a sense of
humour. Why does this deserve such a long thread?
(all big companies have tiny rebels).
I wish people would stop the knee jerk reaction of assuming that everything at MS is evil. So Anders, Jim Hugenin & Co are *evil*?. Not in my book...
Misguided perhaps.
Long ago, back in perhaps '92, MS's *engineers* (note emphasis) taught me some stuff that made localizing my greek/english dictionary a piece of cake. Sadly, their apps people were so arrogant that it took them 7 years to play catch up with me (even though it was my first serious windows app in the wild).
Even longer back, we used to regard IBM as the source of all evil. Hey, what happened to that?
I wonder who is next. I just hope we can find another target to villify. This one is getting boring...
Mostly out of experience. Basically, they're on a drug, and in many cases wish they weren't.
It's not hypocrisy - it's good advice.
If you get some software of the net, and it's crippled like hell, so you go for the easy way: crack the damn licensing scheme; and you ultimately decide to buy it.
Are you still in error using the cracked copy after you bought the software?
StarTrek.org Free Webmail
because SF was cracked by Deepz0ne
Patents Drive Free Software as Hurricanes Drive Construction Industry
You mean "pseudo-code", right?
It would be cool if it didn't suck.
It is outrageous that Ms. Rosen holds some unknown kid to some higher standard than her own son.
C'mon cut the kid some slack. You'd be a criminal too with a mom like that.
Because they're idiots and you're not?
It's official. Most of you are morons.
Buy an application, use a keygen. :)
Future Wiki -- If you don't think about the future, you cannot have one.
This is like a cop who takes drugs. And yes 1 cop taking drugs does reflect on the whole fucking department. MS has some explaining to do and they better come up with a better excuse then yours.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Yet somehow when MS steal software it is allright?
God I hate hypocrits like you. MS can't have it both ways no matter how many apologists like you they have behind them.
So MS has two choices. Either back down of their stance on software audits or be known as a hypocrit. Then again those of us not licking gates ass already know this.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Nah, her laywers we're prolly just getting the papers in order to sue him, but the press beat her too it.
ha. ha. um. no?
filler because slashdot doesn't understand telling people off with a few words.
Caveat: I haven't RTFA; the Google translation 502'd on me. /.ers, this is likely not the kind of sensationalist rubbish that many of you would have hoped for. As with many things MS, the issue here is a more mundane one: Quality control.
I bet MS did not create those files. This kind of work is normally outsourced. I used to do such work myself when I was a freelancer, and I also used a cracked version of SF (although I later bought a copy - it is expensive but superb.) MS should have removed the SF header information when they received the file. But if Sonic Foundry were to sue MS (which I very much doubt, given their mutual closeness), then I expect they would be pointed in the direction of the outsourcer.
Sadly for many
Give me a break.
The Visual C++ 7.1 Toolkit comes with the C runtime library and the Standard Template Library. In fact, the one omission is the runtime version of msvcr71.dll/msvcp71.dll in the toolkit, meaning you have to statically compile it in. STL, by nature will inline itself right into the application as it is used. In essence, you don't *have* to worry about redistribution if you're using the toolkit because you can't compile a version that needs dynamic runtime libraries anyway!
I'm not suggesting anything, I'm merely stating that if these files were made by MS with pirate software then quite simply they have broken the law. It is not the laws reponsibility to provide a means of obeying the law, that is the responsibilty of the company. This may sound harsh, but I work for an international company with well over 20,000 MS licenses and things seem to be under control there. The software asset management is a nightmare but after being stung in the past there is now the strictest measures being taken to ensure things like this do not happen. If you make a wav file, your QA lists where it came from, the same goes for graphic files, databases, online content and so forth. And why are such lengths being taken? because of a friendly MS audit.
Your implying Quality Control is mundane! *Looks up current job title: "Quality Analyst"* *sigh*
Probably works or worked for microsoft?
Mix the failings of Usenet with the shortcomings of the World Wide Web and the result is slashdot.
Another reason to use ReZound
Why UNIX?
Your EMail and /. postings do it also.
Traces of yourself are just about everywhere. I think Visio has document information also, being an OO.org user I can't really comment.
Why UNIX?
Folks, there is no PROOF that Microsoft used illegal copy/copies of Sound Forge to create those WAVs. Here's why: all there is, is the word "Deepz0ne" in the IENG field. That's a field in Sound Forge you can use to indicate who worked on the file. Now there are various possibilities:
:) Would people then think I own+use illegal copies of Sound Forge? Perhaps. That's their business. If they want to come and find the illegal copies, [George Bush voice] bring 'em on. They'll realise they have egg on their faces, all because I was playing a silly joke.
1) Microsoft paid an outside vendor who was saying all his software was legal, when in fact he was using a crack of Sound Forge. I think Microsoft is still in a little trouble, unless that vendor had "Errors & Omissions Insurance" which might help in the event of a lawsuit.
2) Microsoft paid an outside vendor whose ACTUAL IDENTITY was Deepz0one of Radium, and Deepz0ne likes to put that text in the files he makes, knowing that it's a completely arbitrary text field and proves nothing. (even if it appears risky!)
3) Microsoft paid an outside vendor for the music whose name is (say) Joe Bloggs but actually likes to put other names into his legal Sound Forge copy's IENG field, and on this day, for whatever reason, he decided to use "Deepz0one." Microsoft didn't check the controversial contents of that field before shipping the WAVs. Or maybe they did, but don't know who or what Deepz0ne and Radium are.
4) An outside vendor did the music, and when he gave it to his Microsoft liason, the liason went ahead and scrubbed out the original contents of the IENG field (as is quite easy to do) and entered "Deepz0ne" without the outside vendor knowing.
5) The music was composed in-house by some in-house musician that Microsoft employs. When he gave it to his Microsoft liason in charge of Windows Media Player or whatever, the liason went ahead and scrubbed out the original contents of the IENG field (as is quite easy to do) and entered "Deepz0ne" without the musician knowing, and the musician never bothered to check later. Or maybe he did, after the WAVs had shipped to the public, and he went over to the liason's office and kicked him in the nuts, but that's basically all he can do.
Anyhow, if Microsoft investigates this, it ought to be pretty easy to determine who did the work -however, there is NO PROOF THAT ILLEGAL COPIES OF SOUND FORGE ARE OR WERE IN USE ON THE MICROSOFT PREMISES AS A RESULT OF THIS TEXT BEING IN THIS FIELD.
I use a legal copy of Sound Forge 6.0 every day. I could from this day forth put "Cracked by Radium" or "Deepz0ne" into every file I make as part of my job. There is nothing illegal about it... it's confusing, sure, but not illegal. Perfectly legal. Except you're ripping off the "IP" of Radium and/or their members, but they're hardly going to come forward and challenge you about it
The German web site, and Slashdot, have make a pretty immature and gross assumption that illegal copies of Sound Forge were in use by Microsoft during the creation of those files.
Some image editing apps forget to update the tiny thumbnail in the meta information that's used by windows explorer to extract thumbnails (if present).
Which is pretty cool if people cropped the picture or added black bars to protect the "innocent".
Also, digital cameras add EXIF info containing date, time, make and model of camera, lighting conditions and settings, etc. It can freak people out when they send you a picture and you tell them "hmm.. it looks to me like a picture from a Canon Powershot A6, did you use the nightshot mode?".
SCO employee? Check out the bounty
I say we all contact SoundForge and reference M$'s latest PR release about indemnification.
Use their FUD against them =D
The road between democracy and tyranny is paved with secrecy in the name of security.
http://www.microsoft.com/piracy - so, who's going to report them first? :P
Same holds for hardware. I have known employees who bought their own harddrives and installed them (illegally), just because it was the only way to get their work done....
--
Try Nuggets , the mobile search engine. We answer your questions via SMS, across the UK.
I've known people to do this a lot:
Buy a legit copy of a program. Then get and actually USE a cracked copy.
Why? Because it's a lot less annoying not being required to insert the CD every time you want to use the program. Was what they did illegal? I think so. Although they had a licensed copy and used only one instance of the program at a time, they were probably in violation of some EULA which prohibits reverse engineering. Big whoop.
Then there are the people who started with a warez copy, used it for a while and then decided that they liked the program enough that it was worth buying, so they did.
Of course, both such groups are probably rare. Probably few people who have warez copies actually bother to pay for them.
Anyhow, my POINT about this person at Microsoft who used a pirated copy of SoundForge... I bet Microsoft has a site license for that program where they already paid Sony some gawd-awful amount in order to use as many copies as they want, and as a result, Sony doesn't give a rat's ass that MS used a pirated copy.
This "I want my software now, management is too stupid to see this" is completely bogus.
Just how credible is it that with two days to go, you're going to take a 1000$ package, and it will actually accellerate anything? If all you've done is look at the kickass demo, then it will take a couple of weeks/months to learn the application. You might be someone who knows this app, great then, Are you able and willing to teach it to the rest of the staff so that it is productive? How much is that training going to cost? Is it a good idea to invest in this product rather than the twenty competitors on the market? Why? because YOU guy says it's kickass after seeing a demo?
So we maintain one PC configuration for Joe, another for Mary, another for Jack, etc... 100 different configurations... something's broken, and you call support to fix you cheap ass machine. three days later we find that your critical app replaced some system library which conflicted with what other apps were expecting. 100 different configs, means 100 different sets of conflicts. That is going to be really, really expensive after a while.
"Heck it's only 1000$"... yeah... for one guy.
Now do you want it forever? or just for one guy for two days. Why would I get it just for one out of 15 developers if it's such a great tool. oh... 15K$. You want to keep it forever right? so it's really 15K$ + 3K per year maintenance, so over five years, you're spending 27K$. Then there's the support staff who have to install it and keep it up to date, so that the next random vulnerability in your 1K$ package doesn't shutdown development with two days to go before a deadline.
Then there is "well yeah, when you use X" you have to include this library with the product, oh and there's royalties there. Or, no... product X's run-time app doesn't support SP2, what do you mean the server is running SP2? Damn! package Y needs SP2. there goes the deadline!
When somebody wants to run something, it is a commitment that an organization makes to a product. Gauging the level of commitment required, and all the ramifications of it, is not something you're gonna do with "I saw the demo and it Rocks", or even "I've used this at my last job a sites 'R US, and my and my brother jeb thought it was fab! I thought it was so great that I bought stock in the company."
Figuring out whether those decisions make sense is what managers do. Get over the sophomoric crap, and give managers information to figure make a decision, rather than fumes.
Not to defend Microsoft, but they probably just outsourced these audio files from an audio production house. (And, likely, they paid a nice sum of money for the work and rights to use the audio). Sound Forge is a mastering program, so it might have gotten the tag added later down the chain by yet another production house.
I wouldn't be surprised if many of our companies have outsourced some work (graphics for the website, etc) and the actual work was done by an artist that was using a cracked version of photoshop or whatever. Hell, I might have hired a plumer to work on my house who was using stolen tools. I wouldn't accept any responsibility for that and it certainly doesn't mean that I condone stealing tools. I would be a different story if I knew about or encouraged the use of stolen tools.
Even still, I find it amusing.
TODO: come up with a clever sig
MSoids spilling Astroturf all over this thread... Just wait for MS actual response and then use that in your next BSA-audit! ;-)
To all the people saying MS is not responsible for this: Does that mean Ford can blame "their subcontractor" when their cars go up in flames due to a bad gas nozzle made by said subcontractor?
Last time i checked it said "(c) Microsoft" on the box and everywhere in the program!...
Of course this is asuming that the perosn made the sound files with a pirated version instead of being the actual pirator in question. It would be ironic if this revelation actually finds the person responcable for ilegaly distributing a program he had microsoft buy for him/her.
It would be intersting to find out if microsoft actually downloaded the files from another person or companie that is now dead and they consumed. Oh well more of this story should get interesting.
There's so much shit in EULA's that it's probably better to pretend they don't exist and carry on like you've purchased a new car, or a book.
In Eurpoe rights are things that you can't sign away, no matter how hard you try. That's why some people still get arrested for S&M and the guy who advertised for someone to eat is in prison.
thank God the internet isn't a human right.
That's the sound of a developer being fired....
This is a lie. Deepz0ne was not one of the original soundforge authors.
Check out the interview with Radium's cofounder Sandor:
[_KaY_] Was it hard to create this group, i mean was it hard to find suppliers, good crackers...?
[Sandor] Yes actually. At first it was just Deepz0ne and myself, and we released together a little number of programs like soundforge cd architect.
So, Deepz0ne was one of the original crackers of soundforge, NOT one of its creators.
I tend to agree--you have big business on one side and big gov't on the other side--at least traditionally.
Anymore, however, there's big government and big business on both side of the congress aisle. Does it matter? Yes--big business is a huge problem, even though it does bring a certain number of benefits (cheaper goods, larger base of luxury items, etc). Big gov't has some advantages, but overall I am not quite ready for either.
I am libertarian in the sense the people need to be free. I agree with you that to a certain extent, the libertarian ideal is unrealistic, but I do think that by striving for that ideal, we are likely to meet a much more diserable middle ground than be letting the status quo of the left & right (dems & reps) continue unchecked.
"We don't know what we are doing, but we are doing it very carefully,..." Wherry, R.J. Personnel Psychology (1995)
Maybe I'm just naive, but who the hell goes around viewing every single binary file to find warez breadcrumbs ? What I find somewhat stupid is that this "professional" application goes and stamps its ugly signature in every wave file, even though that information CHUNK has nothing to do with the sound itself and only adds pointless clutter to an already bastardized file format. Perhaps I'd rather know who made the file, when, where, and who I should contact for licensing. That's USEFUL information.. I don't care whether the creator used Forge, Wavelab, Cooledit or "dd if=/dev/sound", as long as the thing sounds pretty on my 20/20's I don't care about the rest.
-Billco, Fnarg.com
So you know the metadata put in by an app that you don't use, but don't know anything about one that you do? Shouldn't that be the other way around?
No, one license for all machines shown to have been used in the production of the sound files. A tiny tiny portion of the computers in their environment.
As a large company that creates the OS and management tools, I'm guessing they probably can pretty easily do an installed software inventory and send a check to SoundForge without blinking.
If they were to pay for one on every machine, then they might as well buy out SoundForge. Nothing that I've ever seen would make such a blanket licensing scheme required by law.
And SoundForge could probably refuse payment of the royalties and take them to court, but do the math and it is obvious what the smart decision would be.
It is more productive to voice thoughtful opinions (reply) than to judge (moderate) others.
Why don't I have mod points and can mod you Insightful?
Joachim
People don't write Manifestos any more -- what's going on in this world? [Frank Zappa]
They dont allow unauthorized software to be installed on their systems... we're doing a commercial for Xbox and couldnt send them clips in Apple Quicktime format (they arent allowed to install Quicktime!) probably the work of a freelancer or outside shop... you'll be surprised how much of their creative work (print, sound, video etc) is done outside of MS
The evidence will always with circumstantial. But it's compelling evidence - the chances that someone altered this, for whatever reason, is considerably lower than the chances that someone edited the files on pirated software.
Well, I guess that one was free, in a way.
You are thinking of the $60 Sound Forge Studio, or the 30 day trial on many of Sonic Foundry's former products.
Just for fun, I ran the search on my own machine for *.wav files containing 'Deepz0ne'...
V
H:\half-life\CSTRIKE\SOUNDS\WEAPONS\C4_BEEP1.WA
Etc...
Caveat Emptor is not a business model.
Considering the BSA's track record of bullying tactics, brainwashing the masses with simplistic explanations of what piracy is all about, and so on - yes, I'd agree that they would still go after a company that owned a number of software licenses for a package, yet licensed one using the wrong key.
Nonetheless, that DOESN'T mean they'd win their case. (In fact, hasn't the BSA simply threatened most people they've gone after, scaring them into compliance, rather than actually fighting it out in court?)
If I purchase 250 Windows licenses for my company, and can prove that I'm only using a total of 250 machines - then where's the real issue? (In fact, this very thing came up at least 4 years ago, when businesses started making use of drive cloning software like Symantec Ghost to easily restore workstations to a specific configuration. You'd clone one, and then the drive image contained the CD key of that particular copy of Windows. Restore it back to multiple computers, and now you've got multiple computers sharing a key only intended for use with one PC.) Of course, businesses (rightly, IMHO) assumed this was perfectly legal as long as they retained proof that they purchased enough Windows licenses to cover all of the computers.
Problem was (is?), MS begged to differ, making claims that particular copies of Windows and their accompanying key were tied to specific systems (at least when they came as a bundle with the hardware), and businesses needed to buy "additional full-retail or volume licenses" for Windows if they wanted to swap the keys among multiple computers. (Their claim was, a discounted OEM version of Windows wasn't really as flexible, legally speaking, as the full price retail or volume licensed versions!?!)
Well, once again, this wasn't really tested in a court of law - because the outcry from large corporations caused MS to quickly shut up about the whole issue, and pretend it didn't exist after all. So now, who really knows?
You have encountered this? Really. Interesting, and probably lying, or just overstated.
I will take your word for it? Or I'll just assume you copy MS software and probably do drugs.
The next patch could then simply replace (read: remove and then add "new" files) the files.
Probably should go without saying that I would find it surprising if Sony really pushed this. After all, if they were to audit Microsoft, then I am sure Microsoft would return the favor. Then you simply have to look into the chances of finding Sony software versus MS software and the inherent odds associated?
The IP violation would have merits if this turns out to be intentional. Otherwise, I would to see you say this about some arbitrary package in Linux. You may say it to shut me up, but I think any reasonable person will know you would not do it in a real case. AGAIN, this is not some Microsoft conspiracy. Punative damages are meant to save people/companies from intentional wrong doing at their expense. If every one at MS had a copy of SoundForge intalled through these means, then you would have a very strong case. I would even bet that MS does have a license for this software.
I don't know the circumstances of the gay stuff, and I strongly doubt the whole case was stated here.
Emotional pain is physical pain? Really, that's one hell of an argument. Go argue that one in court. I cannot even believe you had the audacity to make this claim. You just hate Limbaugh and will find ANY reasoning to prove his guilt.
You are suggesting that someone selling STOLEN SOURCE CODE, which he did not even have the competence to steal himself (not that that would make it any more legal) and making a profit off of it is equal to something that for all you know may have been a misunderstanding? I realize OSS fanboys may find this is not a big deal--people sell work they had nothing to do with all the time (Linux), but closed source is closed source so other people cannot mooch and the closed source firm gets all of the profits.
I realize I am playing devil's advocate and someone is likely in the wrong in this MS case, but it is very unlikely that it is MS in the wrong. On the contrary, it is some dimwitted sound file guy and probably an intern.
At least as far as Word is concerned (the only Office app other than Outlook that I use much at all), go to File -> Properties and you can change/remove the author details.
I assume that they're in there as it's often very useful indeed to be able to track down the original author of a document - after all, they're the one that should know the most about the subject. In the context of business especially this can be critical when trying to discern exactly what was specified, or what was meant by a particular part of the document, etc, and why (often the most critical if you're in a CYA situation).
It's not like the information is hidden, though - it's even visible via explorer. I don't use OpenOffice much, but I'd be amazed if it didn't do similar. Open sauce it may be, but it's still a useful feature.
It's official. Most of you are morons.
The IP violation would have merits if this turns out to be intentional. Otherwise, I would to see you say this about some arbitrary package in Linux.
You miss my point entirely.
The issue isn't that MS "pirated" a program. I don't care. The issue is that if *you* "pirate" an MS program, woah boy, watch out. But if MS does it, somehow it's like, no big deal.
I don't know the circumstances of the gay stuff, and I strongly doubt the whole case was stated here.
No shit the whole case wasn't stated. Rush went on for days about it, how can I state the whole case? The point is that he held the position that they *should* be jailed because the law's the law, and that the argument they used regarding the right to privacy was bogus because, according to the horribly ignorant Limbaugh, the Constitution does not protect the right to privacy!
Emotional pain is physical pain? Really
No, moron, I said the reverse. That *all* physical pain is actualy emotion. I'll explain it for you: If you cut your finger, do you really thing your finger hurts? It doesn't. Your mind is where the pain is. Now, simply "sensing" that you've been cut or burnt, etc, wouldn't necessarily have to be emotion, but it hurting is.
I realize I am playing devil's advocate and someone is likely in the wrong in this MS case, but it is very unlikely that it is MS in the wrong. On the contrary, it is some dimwitted sound file guy and probably an intern.
And that imaginary intern, while working for Microsoft, *IS* part of Microsoft. What do you think a corporation is?
Do you think MS is going to say, "oh, your 'illegal' MS Exchange server is just the fault of some consultant you paid to set up your company e-mail, so no biggie, carry on". Or that the RIAA will say, "oh, that MP3 server that your executives knew nothing about is the fault of your 10 employees who used it?" etc?
Let me drill the point home to you: IT'S NOT THE SINGLE ACT THAT IS NEWS, IT'S THE FACT THAT THE TORQUEMADAS OF THE IP INQUISITION ARE, THEMSELVES, GUILTY OF THE CRIMES THEY CONDEMN (FINE, JAIL, OR FORCE INTO COSTLY CONTRACTS) OTHERS FOR.
Their drug abuse versus his are completely different. It's like being an alcoholic versus drinking too many protein shakes.
Excuses, excuses. The law's the law, right? Isn't that the Limbaugh way? Personally, I agree that there are subjective differences, but the violation itself, the abuse, is essentially the same. He's even gone deaf because of it.
You have encountered this? Really. Interesting, and probably lying, or just overstated.
Have I encountered what? Limbaugh's lies and hypocrisies? Yes. Drug (ab)users? Yes. Go fuck yourself for calling me liar.
I will take your word for it? Or I'll just assume you copy MS software and probably do drugs.
Funny, the question never came up, not even in context, so what's the point in making such foolish and irrelevant assumptions?
Except that the passage you mention is not about morality. It's about civil laws of the Israelite people of antiquity. Theologians (Christian ones, anyway -- don't know about Jewish theologians) generally divide the Old Testament laws into three kinds:
Of these, only the first is held by Christians to be binding on non-Jews. Thou shalt not steal is in this moral category, whereas social or civil laws are not binding for non-Jews, nor can they be applied to non-Jewish peoples.
I agree with your other reasoning, though, namely that you have to define "theft" before making blanket statements like that of the grandparent post. I am just calling into question your argumentation that not everything the Old Testament has to say about morality can be applied to modern morality. What you referred to is not about morality, but about civil laws.
Database engine for analyzed or annotated text
Boohoo, it hurts to have a Slashdotter tell me to go fuck myself when he just makes stuff up.
I was suggesting I'd take your word on the repercussions of the law. This is also where I called you a liar. Excuse the earlier sarcasm.
If you cut your finger, NERVES send impulses of PAIN to your brain. Your brain tells you, HEY, there is something going on down there. Physical PAIN is a signal, not a dumb fucking emotion.
I really don't care to be honest because if you are so focused on NOT UNDERSTANDING the difference between a signal to the brain and a THOUGHT in the brain, then you are just dumb. You're just pathetic.
IIRC, the "Windows sound" in Windows 95 was composed by Brian Eno. (I remember seeing his name in the file properties.)
You are actually going to try to argue that physical pain is emotional pain? It does not matter what order I list it in because the REVERSE was still true when comparing the subset (as you were calling it) IF your idea was true.
Idiot. If a dog is an animal, an animal isn't necessarily a dog.
If physical pain is emotional, that doesn't mean emotional pain is physical.
I really don't care to be honest because if you are so focused on NOT UNDERSTANDING the difference between a signal to the brain and a THOUGHT in the brain, then you are just dumb.
I understand more than you appear capable of. Pain is bad not because of the nerves connecting a finger to the brain, but because of what the brain does with the signal when it arrives.
You're just pathetic.
You make me laugh.
While what you say is correct, it's either beside the point or exactly the whole point, depending on how you look at it.
I'd have no problem if Microsoft jumped on a company who had a dozen white box servers all running Windows Server 2003 with the same serial number and no record at all of every purchasing the software. Instead, they demand proof of licensing for every installed pice of software, even if it's a copy of Windows 3.1 on an old 386 running some piece of legacy software in the corner. If you can't provide proof, you're paying for it. If one of your employers has installed an illegal pice of software which has nothing to do with his job, they don't bother to ask who screwed up. You're paying. Microsoft deserves exactly the same sympathy and consideration that they give others in similar situations - absolutely none at all.
The point is that if Microsoft can't even keep track of what's being used to produce the files that are distributed with their OS, where the hell do they get off demanding that others be able to keep such meticulous records of their software?
"The legitimate powers of government extend only to such acts as are injurious to others." Thomas Jefferson.
He weant deaf because of his problem, not the medicine.
It wasn't medicine, it was a drug. Medicine is what you use to cure an illness. One of the dangers of oxycontin abuse is deafness. The type of deafness Limbaugh suffers from is extremely rare otherwise.
Boohoo, it hurts to have a Slashdotter tell me to go fuck myself when he just makes stuff up.
I find this amusing, since you go on to say:
Excuse the earlier sarcasm.
Looks like you are still one sarcasm-apology behind.
I was suggesting I'd take your word on the repercussions of the law.
I don't quite follow here. I don't recall directly addressing repercussions of a law.
This is also where I called you a liar.
Without apparent reason. Whatever. The "Fuck You" is supposed to carry the same weight as being called a liar. It doesn't hurt me, it doesn't hurt you, but it's a proper response to your accusation.
Or are you suggesting somehow that some of what we type here *is* supposed to inflict pain or harm?
Another thing to consider is that if the bulb broke or you otherwise injured yourself, you can bet that the company would be in deep shit by OSHA and other safety organizations.
Join the TWIT army now!
Node 3, I tend to agree with Picky. You are a sad person. You try to argue by just turning everything around. If a dog is an animal, an animal isn't necessarily a dog. Hot damn, you can take that to the bank... ---- Pain Receptors are located throughout the skin. The Sensation of Pain can be experienced as either Prickling Pain (FAST PAIN) or Burning and Aching Pain (SLOW PAIN). Pain receptors are Stimulated by mechanical, thermal, electrical, or chemical Energy. http://www.sirinet.net/~jgjohnso/brain.html
You have obviously never worked in deep government sub-contracting or nay job where software flows liked flood waters. After a bit, you say "don't we need a license for this?" and you get laughed at or ignored. (This was government sub-contracting where it wasn't abnormal to be working with $250,000 first-seat, $40,000 each additional seat software. They didn't even *blink* at whole instance so fdatabases of office suites.)
It's like drinking from a firehose full of brandy. Hard to control and intoxicating as hell.
Add to that the fact that when almost everything is site-licensed, you stop looking for things that arnt.
It's in the economies of scale.
So yes and avast, I feel pretty safe in thingking that Redmond is awash in insufficently licensed "grey to black" copies of just about anything you can imagine.
And *no* company can even pretend to be 100% compliant.
Innocent people shouldn't be forced to pay for inferior software development.
--"Code Complete" Microsoft Press
... Deepz0ne themselves, were the person who produced these wav files ?
...Microsoft used the best version of Soundforge [4.5] cracked by Radium. The distortion algorithm in 4.5 could literally tear you speaker cones apart, and something has to be said about that...one of the reasons why I never touched anything after 5.0.
They contain information about you. Email makes the information public to the reciever(s), office documents hide it away.
Why UNIX?
In most countries, profiting from crime is illegal.
e.g. reselling stolen good is heavely punished
e.g the press can't use criminal sources (stolen documents, etc.)
MS dinged them big time for not removing the software on secretaries' desktop PCs that they had simply because they got hand-me-down boxes from the engineering staff.
I'm thinking a $100,000 fine per incident would be justifiable.
Been there, Done that, Sold the t-shirt to the next idiot in line
This reminds me... in case anyone didn't know how much of a scumbag Jack Valenti is:
Mr. KASTENMEIER. Jack, let me ask you. Do you consider yourself and your family infringers when you engage in [videotaping TV shows]?
Mr. VALENTI. I consider myself and my family believing what the plaintiffs in this lawsuit said and they said publicly, they have said it to the press, they have said it to the lawyers, they have said it to the courts. They do not intend to file any actions against homeowners now or in the future. I mean, that is obvious and they have said that publicly, Mr. Chairman, so I believe them. As far as I am concerned, I am going to continue taping because the plaintiffs have said they aren't going to do anything to me. I am not committing any crime. They know that.
Mr. KASTENMEIER. That wasn't my question.
Mr. VALENTI. Do I consider myself an infringer?
Mr. KASTENMEIER. When you engage in such practice.
Mr. VALENTI. Yes, sir, I do. I am taking somebody else's copyrighted material without their consent and I know damn well I am infringing. But as far as court action or anything else, I am safe. First, it is not a criminal act. Again, the opposition would tell you video, police, and criminals. They show an astonishing lack of the copyright law. They know good and well that that is not a criminal infringement unless you do it for profit. But on the other hand the plaintiffs have said they are moving against anybody in the homes. There is no problem, but 1 know and everybody else knows they are infringing.
(Valenti's testimony)
Karma: Segmentation fault (tried to dereference a null post)
My point, in case you missed it, was that is the remedy usually raised as the carrot by MS and the BSA, while threatening those found to have some unlicensed software being used in their business.
Waving it over Microsoft's head seems like poetic justice.
mefus
In Open Society, GPL Software frees YOU!
I though that M$ was the owner of Sonic Foundry products back in the day. My lame late-night googling skills are not helping. Anyone care to help? (oh now Im going to get it for defending m$. Ha! That's life)
God I hate hypocrits like you. MS can't have it both ways no matter how many apologists like you they have behind them.
/.s many virulent attacks on MS is off base, I mediately become and 'apologist'. I can't suggest that a person's take on the issue is one-sided without becoming a hypocrit.
God I hate idiots like you, assuming that the world is black and white. Because I suggest that one of
I have actually worked at MS. They have very strict rules about using non-liscenced software, and they try to enforce it. They terminate people who do this. Because one person decides to break these rules, MS is a pack of hypocrites? I think that they try to respect other companies' IP rights like this is a rather glaring hole in your rant. MS has a third choice: can this person. That would keep it's moral standing pretty solid.
I am not an apologist, just someone who is able you get past the juvenile mode of thought where something is irrevocably good or evil. Did MS use it's power to bully other companies? Sure. Did MS engage in the browser wars to dominate the market? Looks pretty clear to me. Has MS created a simple to use OS that allows millions of casual users across the world use computers? Yep. Has the Internet grown into the communications meidum that is is today as a result of those millions of users having a way to interface with it? Yep. Let's even go further. Has LINUX useage and development grown as more experienced windows users make a switch to alternate operating systems? Gee, let's think about that. MS is just like any average person: It has some good points and some bad points.
But since we are engaging in ad hominem attacks, rather than having an adult debate, fuck you, you immature twit. Why don't you go join the Republican party, they seem to love people with small minds and can only see the world in two colors. I bet you and George will get along well.
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
You could always use NASM and rewrite all your projects in assembler. much better than MSVS *shudder* or GCC, that always works. then you could even port or get someone else to port it to the other side.
they may be a buch of evil backstabbing corporate suits, but at least they know which version of soundforge is best!
Can we keep the files?
They do have the rights to Distribute the songs. Microsoft only used SoundForge to copy the files.
Statue of Limitations have passed look at the date in the file. It has been over 3 years. So, Sound Forge makers could not sue them. Just like the riaa can not sue you for files that are older than 3 years. I know this because a real lawyer talked about it on tv and won.
option #1 Most of the hackers and crackers might have a regular job, right ? There a not necessary unemployed, living underground world. What if Deepzone was or still work for Sonic and just want some hidden publicity. Option #2 What is Microsoft has bought this Wave files from a outside agency ? I personnally don't think they made these files. I may be wrong on this 2 possibility.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
At least microsoft are less embarrased than if media player was crosscompiled from a linux distro.
A Portuguese priest called Bartolomeu de Gusmão first had the idea in the XVII Century.
Who actually invented the plane was a Brasilian guy called Santos Dummond.
I am "Bill Gates"~!