Slashdot Mirror
Will Your Next Car Run Windows?
An anonymous reader writes "Microsoft is beginning to move into the automotive industry. Their 'Automotive Business Unit' is selling a custom version of Windows CE called Windows Automotive. Microsoft attended a conference in Detroit this week to promote their software."
Great - now I can crash my car even after I've already crashed it.
I hope QNX fights them tooth and nail.
Is that all you wanted to say?
That's all.
Javascript + Nintendo DSi = DSiCade
No more!!!!
Gives a whole new meaning to "SUV" and "crash test"...
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
the crash jokes...
The question is, though, do we need such things in our cars? Do we really need cars equipped with "home entertainment systems," if these cars will only be used for trips to the nearest shop or driving to work?
Man is a slave because freedom is difficult, whereas slavery is easy.
I would think Detroit has enough worries about bad perceptions regarding their reliability without adding this to it. There's a reason why it's called "WinCE"
"Wow. Now THAT'S a lot of angry Indians." - Lt. Col. George Armstrong Custer
i only drive stick, therefore i'll run linux.
Cogito Eggo Sum, I think therefore I'm a waffle
to crashing your car :-) I could'nt resist.
Didn't I hear a joke once that if Microsoft made cars they would crash several times per day? Did someone forget to forward that one to Bill Gates?
Please step on brake, gas, and clutch simultaneously to reboot.
No, my next car will not run Windows.
:). Next question?
Nor my next computer.
Nor my next anything.
This was an easy one
It's a shame I won't be able to read this thread because of all the obvious "crashing cars" jokes. :( Just can't handle it.
Anyway to filter out (Funny) posts?
Wasn't there a supposed hoo-ha a few years back when Bill Gates made some comment about the pace of innovation in the computer industry versus the automtive industry, and the auto industry shot back by listing the quirks that would be evident in a Windows-based automobile? Stuff like "Twice a day the car will crash," and so on.
You are in error. No-one is screaming. Thank you for your cooperation.
Do I have to pay the M$ tax on my car.
Can I opt for a -$100 upgrade and use other certain free OSes ?
Answers in order: probably, and probably not.
sigh.
dave.
You know it's gonna be bad when the windshield turns blue all of a sudden...
In Soviet Russia jokes are formulaic and decidedly non-humorous.
I'm ordering my car in BSOD blue.
in their right mind is going to trust their life to Microsoft? Thanks, but I think I'll pass.
Your Windows PC is my other computer.
Car with a mind of it's own
And what happens when you get the blue screen of death driving down the highway at 80???
*Looks out window*
No horsemen, or fire in the sky. So, no.
My car will certainly run Windows when it's not crashing or filling my HUD with CWS et all.
I really hope that doesn't get too widespread... aren't there Videos on the net about the BMW (with Windows) where you can't close the trunk anymore and other fun things like these? Of course, maybe BMW is to blame here BUT Windows just doesn't have the reputation for reliability that I'd want for an OS in my car... no matter how many licenses M$ has already sold, that does not proof that it's good.
~Squisher
It should be noted that I read recently (sorry no links but maybe others can chime in) that BMW is working with Apple to replace its Windows in Car solution with something from Apple.
;)
Will this only extend to the music portion of the car?
Or will apple oversee other parts like navigation etc..
It was not known according to the article, but the take away was BMW was not happy with their Microsoft solution.
So you next car might not have a steering wheel but perhaps a "Clickable scroll wheel"
http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS3211177525.html that was mentioned recently, http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=04/10/18/ 2154245&tid=163&tid=106 for even more info.
"Please press Brake, Gas and Horn to restart your vehicle"
http://autorepair.about.com/cs/funstuff/a/bl_funny _2a.htm
They might end up creating a great product. But Linux is hot on their heels, and it will be up to the people building the user interface to make something useful. There are a lot of embedded OSes, but in a car, you can use handheld-grade software or better.
This is it! This is how they get the military! Soon, elite Microsoft stormtroopers will swarm thestreets, while all of our military is sitting in vans.
And those doors won't open.
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.
Will Your Next Car Run Windows?
Crawl it, maybe, but *run* it ?
Imagine this at 150km/h:
"Sorry, your car has performed an illegal operation and must shut-down. Please hit 'Horn-signal_left-lights' to continue"
I commute daily on a motorcycle and this is just what we need - more distractions for already mindless drivers.
Here's an idea - LOOK OUT THE F--KING WINDOW!
Instead of jacking with your: phone, make-up, hair, GPS, kid in the backseat, TV, etc.
Of course Microsoft will make this easy to use and safe I'm sure so why worry. Right?
Is anyone else seriously frightened by the thought of this?
I hope the auto manufacturers do some very extensive testing if they should choose that option.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Blue Airbag of Death
Now when the car crashes Windows can crash too!!!
HAHAHAHHAHAAAHhAH!h1klahfk!1111111oenone
Does anyone know of a open source project to control a Fuel-Injected engine? I have been thinking about how to set it up, and am not sure of the off-the-shelf hardware that would be needed. But since most engines just use a simple collection of sensors that return a given voltage it probably wouldn't be that hard. And feedback is done by sending X volts to device Y.
So anyone who knows of USB/PCI/Serial devices that can communicate this way on many (30 - 40) lines. Post them here, please!
I'd ideally want an embedded solution, but why not a PC-based solution. You'd just have to wait for the PC to boot before you could start the car.
I'm looking forward to the System Restore feature, I've had hail damage for 2 years that would cost a fortune to fix the old fashioned way.
It's only a model.
I wish I knew the author of this:
At a computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated: "If GM had kept up with the technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon."
In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release stating:
If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:
1. For no reason at all, your car would crash twice a day.
2. Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you would have to buy a new car.
3. Occasionally, executing a manoeuver such as a left-turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, and you would have to reinstall the engine.
4. When your car died on the freeway for no reason, you would just accept this, restart and drive on.
5. Only one person at a time could use the car, unless you bought 'Car95' or 'CarNT', and then added more seats.
6. Apple would make a car powered by the sun, reliable, five times as fast, and twice as easy to drive, but would run on only five per cent of the roads.
7. Oil, water temperature and alternator warning lights would be replaced by a single 'general car default' warning light.
8. New seats would force every-one to have the same size butt.
9. The airbag would say 'Are you sure?' before going off.
10. Occasionally, for no reason, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key, and grabbed the radio antenna.
11. GM would require all car buyers to also purchase a deluxe set of road maps from Rand-McNally (a subsidiary of GM), even though they neither need them nor want them. Trying to delete this option would immediately cause the car's performance to diminish by 50 per cent or more. Moreover, GM would become a target for investigation by the Justice Department.
12. Every time GM introduced a new model, car buyers would have to learn how to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.
13. You would press the 'start' button to shut off the engine.
I can see the confusion now...
Geek walks into auto dealer:
"I'd really like a car without Windows, please."
I'll turn into a supernova and burn up everything. Well I'll turn into a black little hole and you'll turn into string.
I wonder if they are anticipating mandatory 'black boxes' in cars?
love is just extroverted narcissism
It will be a Cold Day in July before i let my car run Windows(TM).
"Doing what i can, with what i have." ~ Burt Gummer
I truely don't understand geeks who claim microsoft sucks but still for example have an xbox at home. If you don't want to buy a car with Microsoft software on some device, tell the salesperson that you won;t buy like the car because it uses Microsoft software. It's that simple, really.
...the day Bill himself drives one!
I think I trust Linux more
[alk]
``Will Your Next Car Run Windows?''
No.
I will make every effort to avoid it. I always tell people a computer without Windows is like a race car without a home entertainment system. It gives you shiny bells and whistles and games, but slows the thing down and makes it prone to crashes.
Please correct me if I got my facts wrong.
I like my aribags to deploy without first having to click through "Are you sure?" screens. And how would the EULA read? "Microsoft reserves the right to tamper with your brakes at any time, and without notification. You may only use gasoline in this tank and this tank only; to tranfer your fuel rights you must first uninstall the engine and tank from this model."
Bluntly we get enough highway congestion without adding rebooting to the mix. Bring on the stick shift throwbacks!
Erotic is when you use a feather. Exotic is when you use the whole chicken.
I had a WebTV Dish Player 7200 (like Tivo) made by Microsoft. The darn thing kept crashing every 3 months. Since I bought it new and was under warrent, I had to mail it back to the manafacture for new replacement. Does this mean I be getting a new car every few months?
NO! NO! Please don't mod me, I'm too young to die a troll. *click* Oh the pain, the pain...
Will Your Next Car Run Windows?
;].
Well, I'm hoping that I'm not the exception (this time). Considering that my desktop GUI is OS X, my laptop/entertainment TV player [PowerBook] is again, OS X -- and the supplied router by my ISP [Microsoft based] was tossed in the trash. Not to mention the main server in every office I work for [IT admin] is Linux based along with my home server and mass storage device [24 drives set up in various RAID configurations mounted to a piece of plywood gives me many terabytes
I highly doubt me, my wife, or any blood relative will be allowed to own such a car.
If they write a new browser for it, will it be called Interstate Exploder?
The "Blue Screen of Death" will take on a whole new meaning... ...why do we need a computer in the car? People can't even talk on the phone while driving...
Elipses: The Greek God of Omission
~
I might know what I'm talkin' about, but then again, this is Slashdot...
Nah, I'm not even going to make a joke about "drivers" and "crashing"....ahhhhh to hell with it, sure I will, "Wait unitl you hear about all the headlines of drivers crashing"
-------
Support Indy Music. Buy
From the article
General Motors says software and electronics already are responsible for more than one-third of the cost of a typical automobile, and an IBM executive predicted this week that the figure will be closer to 90 percent in five years.
Maybe we'll still have jobs in 5 years after all.
RS
Shoes for Industry. Shoes for the Dead.
Drill baby drill - on Mars
I'll be the first person to install Linux with OpenMosix and equip a few vehicles with WiFi, and create the worlds FASTEST, and fastest, supercomputer.
The article doesn't say _anything_ about wince running the fuel injectors, or the ABS, or air bags, or brakes, or steering... It mentions only annoying stuff that has no business being in a car anyway.... Having an in-vehicle DVD player itself is probably more likely to cause crashes than what operating system is being run on said DVD player. Yes, I'm old. I drive a 21 year old diesel truck with no electronics and 440,000 miles on the odometer.
People's airbags are going to be going off ALL the time from all the crashes... *rimshot* I just HAD to say that, regardless of the countless other (crappy) crash jokes.
Once again, Apple offers a better alternative.
"Dave, I stand still--the conclusions jump to me!" - Bill McNeal, NewsRadio
GOD HELP US ALL
...OpenBSD. I will have to spend half an hour getting inside the car though, but at least i will feel secure.
It takes a man to suffer ignorance and smile
Be yourself no matter what they say
seems like it's audio only
All your [brakes, transmissions, steering, bucket seats, stereo,...] are belong to us".
And OnStar gives advice on spyware removal...
"Restart the automobile in Safe Mode"
Busy aligning my non-linear thoughts.
Agreed. I wish that I hadn't used up all those mod points now. I think one of the options should be -1 You Think You're Funny.
My other processor is big-endian.
Do we get frIEs with that?
Why plant a shitty M* licence on the side of your car if can have Linux running it. I wouldnt want to wrap my car arount a pole because of a blue screen "of death" (- Whole new meaning) either would I!! ?? :)
What would happen if you clicked 'No' to the EULA? Would you have to return the car for a refund?
BTM
That was the turning point of my life--I went from negative zero to positive zero.
The lack of access to the "low-level systems" of the vehicle is actually unfortunate in many ways; one of the biggest bugaboos with auto enthusiasts is the lack of an easy-to-interface-to, standardized engine operating computer. Instead people have to buy expensive "chips" to change their vehicle's performance regime.
Clippy: you have made a left turn, a right turn, and pressed the brake, it seems you are trying to evade a road hazard.
Clippy: would you like to enable the road hazard wizard?
Driver: Hurridly presses the YES button on the steering wheel?
Clippy: Windows ME (Mobile Edition), has many new features, it now loads faster than ever...you can even shut down unresponsive programs without rebooting. Car now approaching cliff
Driver: WTF, hurry up!
Clippy: Thank, you for installing Windows ME. Would you like to run the AutoEvade Wizard.
Driver: Ithought I just did that, pushes yes.
Clippy: What type of hazard are you trying to evade?
- Pothole
- pedestrian
- CowboyNeal
- The hazard I am trying to evade is not listed here
Driver selects the last option, car is bouncing of the guardrain nowClippy: Windows ME has detected new hardware, and is unable to find a driver for it and must shut down.
Driver: Argrghehahahahahhhhhhhhhhhhhhh......$^@$^@^@^3cras h^C^C^CC^C^
Give me Tron over anything based on a desktop OS any day of the week.
I can just see it - a car running Windows get's overloaded with spyware over time. Not only will the spyware track every department store you ever visit, system resources will drop so low over time you will never be able to get above 30 m.p.h!
This may be better suited for something else, but this guy works at M$ and modded his Jeep to run Windows XP.
http://www.jpstewart.net/CarBlog/ -- for his info on how he did it.
Personally? I'm running linux in my bus. Headless, attached to my GPS, wardriving, and pulling status information about my engine, and a few other things.
I disable sigs...do you?
I bet all you will have to do is send the car a carefully crafted email which exploits one of the inevitable bugs in the system, and all the doors will instantly spring open.
Note the capitalized words. Would you ever want to sit in a car that's controlled by Winblows? I know I would not - I'd make it dual-boot and boot it into Linux or some BSD flavour.
Simpy
I was late for work because the new 4WD/Acura.MDX@MM worm got me overnight.
software and electronics already are responsible for more than one-third of the cost of a typical automobile, and an IBM executive predicted this week that the figure will be closer to 90 percent in five years.
Lets keep it at 33% and keep MS out?
From the article - "Our philosophy is to put your music on a storage device. That's going to be a lot cheaper. People don't want to have to buy an iPod to play their music" I would definitely buy an iPod to play music after all it's designed for storage and playback and I can take it with me when I leave the car and continue listening.
Time to shop for used cars...
ELOI, ELOI, LAMA SABACHTHANI!?
Slashdot is running a M$ "Get the facts" ad. What the FUCK are you people thinking?
"People don't want to have to buy an iPod to play their music."
Yeah they do, that is why everyone is coming out with an iPod Killer. Why else has BMW made a special connector?
How would you reboot the computer, 'cause they are expecting crashes Windows Automotive, by the way, does not share a network with the low-level systems of a vehicle--so a software crash won't result in, say, brake failure. How sad is it when those promoting a new product (M$ or otherwise) tell you it is not going to work, that random & unexplainable errors will occur and you will have to live with it.
"Not you again," I said.
"Sorry," he said, a little sheepishly. "I guess you know why I'm here."
Indeed I did. Microsoft's $300 million campaign to promote the Windows 95 operating system was meant to be universally effective, to convince every human being on the planet that Windows 95 was an essential, some would say integral, part of living. Problem was, not everyone had bought it. Specifically, I hadn't bought it. I was the Last Human Being Without Windows 95. And now this little man from Microsoft was at my door, and he wouldn't take no for an answer.
"No," I said.
"You know I can't take that," he said, pulling out a copy of Windows 95 from a briefcase. "Come on. Just one copy. That's all we ask."
"Not interested." I said. "Look, isn't there someone else you can go bother for a while? There's got to be someone else on the planet who doesn't have a copy."
"Well, no," The Microsoft man said. "You're the only one."
"You can't be serious. Not everyone on the planet has a computer," I said. "Hell, not everyone on the planet has a PC! Some people own Macintoshes, which run their own operating system. And some people who have PCs run OS/2, though I hear that's just a rumor. In short, there are some people who just have no use for Windows 95."
The Microsoft man looked perplexed. "I'm missing your point," he said.
"Use!" I screamed. "Use! Use! Use! Why buy it, if you can't use it?"
"Well, I don't know anything about this 'use' thing you're going on about," The Microsoft man said. "All I know is that according to our records, everyone else on the planet has a copy."
"People without computers?"
"Got 'em."
"Amazonian Indians?"
"We had to get some malaria shots to go in, but yes."
"The Amish."
"Check."
"Oh, come on," I said. "They don't even wear buttons. How did you get them to buy a computer operating system?"
"We told them there were actually 95 very small windows in the box," the Microsoft man admitted. "We sort of lied. Which means we are all going to Hell, every single employee of Microsoft." He was somber for a minute, but then perked right up. "But that's not the point!" he said. "The point is, everyone has a copy. Except you."
"So what?" I said. "If everyone else jumped off a cliff, would you expect me to do it, too?"
"If we spent $300 million advertising it? Absolutely."
"No."
"Jeez, back to that again," the Microsoft man said. "Hey. I'll tell you what. I'll give you a copy. For free. Just take it and install it on your computer." He waved the box in front of me.
"No," I said again. "No offense, pal. But I don't need it. And frankly, your whole advertising blitz has sort of offended me. I mean, it's a computer operating system! Great. Fine. Swell. Whatever. But you guys are advertising it like it creates world peace or something."
"It did."
"Excuse me?"
"World peace. It was part of the original design. Really. One button access. Click on it, poof, end to strife and hunger. Simple."
"So what happened?"
"Well, you know," he said. "It took up a lot of space on the hard drive. We had to decide between it or the Microsoft Network. Anyway, we couldn't figure out how to make a profit off of world peace."
"Go away," I said.
"I can't," he said. "I'll be killed if I fail."
"You have got to be kidding," I said.
"Look," the Microsoft man said, "We sold this to the Amish. The Amish! Right now, they're opening the boxes and figuring out they've been had. We'll be pitchforked if we ever step into Western Pennsylvania again. But we did it. So to have you holding out, well, it's embarrassing. It's embarrassing to the company. It's embarrassing to the product. It's embarrassing to Bill."
"Bill Gates does not care about me," I said.
This brings new meaning to the "Blue Screen of Death".
because cars are too expensive. Talk about your high hardware costs. How long until Ballmer pushes for $100 cars?
I may twist orthodoxy to partly justify a tyrant. But I can easily make up a German philosophy to justify him entirely.
"In a hierarchy every employee will rise to his level of incompetence". The Peter Principle
From the article
Also, Linux has become a real threat to Microsoft on desktops and servers--but it's not as established in the automotive arena.
The significant point is that Microsoft is not established in the automotive area. Microsoft has never gone against Linux in a new domain and come out on top.
One of the VP's at my company has a luxury car (forget what make it is) that has Windows CE embedded. He's always complaining about it because the car is so unreliable. The typical failure mode is that he'll go to start it, and it refuses to start because some diagnostic code has malfunctioned. We're always seeing the loaner cars from the dealer in his parking space because they're applying patches to his car at the shop.
So Guido wants to take out a "business associate" and make it look like an "accident." He hires Johny "Black Hat" to write a little backdoor hack and boom, the Don goes high tech.
This scenario has some interesting implications for commiting technology based homicide.
Lets hope MS gets serious about security with this one.
"Give me taste, give me funk, give me fury, gimme some more."
Would you like to install critical update QNX801091881073 brake-control exploit fix, before you use your car? ...This update will take 5 hrs. and 23 min...
Where do you want to go today?
/^([Ss]ame [Bb]at (time, |channel.)){2}$/
> Will Your Next Car Run Windows?
Only if I wanted it to crash.
"A new car built by my company and running Microsoft software leaves somewhere traveling at 60 mph. The Microsoft software locks up. The car crashes and burns with everyone trapped inside. Now, should we initiate a recall? Nope. Everyone who got into the car tacitly agreed to the car's EULA, which includes a "no liability" clause for both my company and Microsoft."
Yeah, I can just see it now...
Mandatory Wi-Fi connection with the car...
When you open the door you have less than a minute to start the car and boot up your firewall before the worms get ya!
Who in their right mind would trust Microsoft with any critical system? Not to mention having an ugly "Made for WinCE" sticker right next to the already-annoying dealer broach on the rear trunk lid!
...reboot a car? Does the faster you go make it crash more often? If you put more people in it, will one of them fail and cause the car to wreck? Do the occupants need to be compatable with each other? How would you get patches? Would the car be obsolete in 3 years? Does the thought of this make your head hurt too?
In France one of our big car maker will be forced to sell a very simple model that was primarily aimed at eastern Europe markets.
Thanks to the european market they could not really prevent this from happening because the market is open and there are consumers who want cheap and simple cars.
Why would one want to pay for mostly marketing hype when the basic solution are fine and cheaper. Also people have already started to notice that electronic in car increase the number of problems and the costs of repairs.
I see electronics in car as I see most stuff that cell phone manufacturers are making : pointless stuff.
Maybe it is just me, but I still fail to see the interest of bells and whistles everywhere. I need simple stuff that works well (but still reading some slashdot topic is funny).
no.
"Glory is fleeting, but obscurity is forever." - Napoleon Bonaparte
So... You're sitting there, idling in traffic, and you ask your HUMMER: "Get Me Cheapest Gas."... or rather, if it's as screwed up as the phone (from the article):
1. "Get me cheapest gas."
2. "GET Me Cheapest GAS."
3. "GET ME CHEAPEST GAS!"
4. "G..E..T.. M..E.. CHEEEPEST GASSSSSSSSSSSS!!!"
Something's wrong with this picture.
Why not: "Get Me Honda Dealer?"
I once rented a car at a Wisconsin airport on a very cold winter day. Instead of the heat being on, the air conditioning was on. There was nobody with me to help, the controls were unfamiliar and somewhat counterintuitive, I was in slow-moving but solid traffic on a long exit road that had no place to pull over, and the window frosted over solid and became opaque before I could figure out how to turn on the defroster.
All sorts of seemingly comfort-related issues (adjusting the side mirrors, turning on the defroster, turning OFF the radio) can become safety issues quickly.
The Windows code may not control the brakes, but will it control the hazard flashers?
I understand that the manuals for some of these high-end cars where everything is controlled from a computer joystick are 200 pages long, and the owners trade video-game-like "cheats" that simplify navigating through a long menu system.
"How to Do Nothing," kids activities, back in print!
No.
I'm not sure they will get into the core systems anyway. I think this is a likely move toward getting their media formats everywhere they can.
They know it's going to be hard to compete with Apple because the I-pod already captured the mindshare of the important people. (The cool ones.)
If they get their stuff built into the car, then they can tie that, their OS, delivery formats and services into a delivery chain that does not leave room for I-pod.
Blogging because I can...
It might spell the end of Microsoft, if it causes too many people to die, they will be sued into an oblivion.
If it won't boot, Fsck it!
What about social networking? i.e. enter the license plate number of the car in front of me and see if he/she is on Friendster (or equivalent)? Tell that a**hole who just cut me off something unprintable via IM?
That's a scary thougt indeed. Any OS made for cars will have to be 100% rock-solid, and will most likely be an imbedded OS. So as to avoid the likely-hood of a catastrophic software crash while crusing on the highway doing 80 mph. Still, I wouldn't want it in my car, that's for sure.
Free Desk
Now we can get a new HUD in the windows to with a paperclip to overstate the obvious, and flood us with propaganda.
You are being over-charged.
This dealership is raping you.
You are paying extra to have your car washed before you drive off the lot, but the only one taking a bath is you.
I'm a no good piece of shit built with expensive hard to find parts. Might as well be made by Dell.
PSST, drive off this cliff... do it for Bill. Microsoft loves you.
That asshole uses Linux... RUN HIM OVER! It's okay.. Microsoft backs you.
Did you know!? (Insert useless bullshit here)
Please pull over at the next corner, exit the vehicle, pull down your pants and bend over. A gloved Microsoft employee will be by to service you soon. You did read the EULA didn't you?
ALERT: You changed your bumper stickers. Please contact Microsoft ASAP for vehicle reactivation.
Did you know!? No, we don't run on Linux, we run over Linux.
Did you know!? Would you like to continue seeing these pointers upon ignition? [YES] [NO, (but yes really)]
ALERT: User SCUM~: You must updgrade to PRO to listen to this radio station. Such as...
Microsoft Media Player Radio v0.1845 SP 45
Thank you for choosing Microso.... *BSOD*
Where do you want to go today? Think about it. It's Wenesday you know. This car isn't going anywhere.
ILLEGAL OPERATION: U-TURN... CANNOT FIND STOPSIGN.DLL. FULLSPEED AHEAD!
No.
Next question please.
Of course it runs NetBSD. BTC: 1NT7QvbetmANwaMzhpVL6
with their AutoPC, which had a non-x86 CPU in it, I think an ARM or some such. I bought one for a car that I no longer have, along with the AutoPC GPS unit, CD changer (mounted in the trunk), and some software for it. I believe it ran a custom version of WinCE or something similar, and was the forerunner to MS' automotive obsessions.
The AutoPC was interesting; you could get directions via the GPS receiver, some software, and the NavTech CDs (now DVDs) that MapQuest.com uses. Additionally, there were various screensavers you could download that would show you your speed (based on GPS), direction, etc etc. All in all it was fairly nice, but a little underpowered; you couldn't play MP3s from the internal CD-ROM without lots of skipping. Supposedly a later version of AutoPC, called JoyRide or something, fixed all that.
But yeah, in almost two years of use, I never ever had it crash. Ironically, the same couldn't be said for my Linux box, which crashed after 499 days uptime (back in the 2.0.x days this was).
now I can totally query SQL server while I'm driving.
On the other hand, you will be paying the MS tax.
Leaving MS out of it, I think I'd pay extra for a car without all the crap built in. Fortunately for me, most folks would rather pay extra to get all the built in crap, so I'll be able to get the stripped-down model and save.
See what I've been reading.
... to make my car look like a Porsche.
Jokes are funny.
Regardless of whether they are using winXP, winCE or winCar, do we really need a full OS in a car? I'd think that consumers would far prefer individual devices like MP3 players, portable gaming consoles, GPS units and cell phones, that can simply be hooked together, over an OS based central computer in a car.
It seems to me that this would add significant cost to a vehicle, with little gain.
Either one of my choice, I gonna put Linux or OS X into it.
I really don't like that M$ giving us the only one choice. It's like you only can eat beef and green bean everyday.
GOD I HOPE NOT!!!!!!!
Apparently, there were several drivers who experienced problems with their Cruise Control. Some guys had their speed locked at 200 km/h and could not slow down, the brakes were not operational and the could not turn off the Cruise Control. After a while, everything went back to normal, and nobody was injured. The carmaker (Renault) claims this is not possible and inquiries are in progress. Nevertheless, it makes me wonder if Electronics are reliable enough to replace Mechanics...
Didn't Steve Ballmer grow up in Detroit?
If so, he might still have some contacts there.
That said, it's yet another example of Microsoft reaching out all of its corporate tentacles into almost every conceivable market.
(waiting for the obligatory "If Microsoft Made Cars" jokes to start flying around...)
"Oooh, does that mean we get to kick some puffy white mad zionist butt?"
My next car will not run windows. I will go buy used K car if I have too.
- Stuff unrelated to driving, like the MP3 player.
- Stuff that can assist driving, like the falling-asleep camera mentioned earlier today, heads-up displays, etc
- "Drive by wire" like the F16. Electronic ignition timing; intelligent suspension, etc.
Do we always want physical failsafes on the deepest levels? Do we trust brake lines/brake fluid more than we trust data and power cables to a remote braking mechanism?
There's certainly a drive to integrate the levels. There are people in the world would would like cars to have speed governors, or breathalyzers. Or features the gently prevent tailgating at high speeds. If Microsoft gets in at the top level through the MP3 player, I can see it bullying its way down to the deeper levels as they integrate.
Its more than this. the link you pointed to is the current system. They are working on something new.
'cause I won't buy it.
Top 16 Things Bill Gates would change about the Automotive Industry
Ask and Discuss your HTML and other web dev stuff
This will give "car crash" a whole new meaning.
If it's M$ it'll break - I'll be there to man the help-desk.
Thanks for the "product" M$.
No thanks, dont need even more digital equipment to fail..
We need a true retro-car company that ditches all the computer controls for good quality mechanics..
---- Booth was a patriot ----
This really gives a new meaning to the "blue screen of death." (will my airbags deploy too?)
There are times when people like to use the car a metaphor for PCs. I use this example a lot for showing how some of the MS's design decisions are not exactly sound:
- MS always tries to see the Windows Car as a super low maintaince, easy to use thing. All you need to do is wash it!
- MS always tries to identify messy and cumbersome tasks and then "fix" them the wrong ways. For instance chainging oil isn't exactly complex but it can get messy and some don't like to do it. So MS will implment in their Windows Car a "Oil Ejection Button" on the dashboard. Press the button, all of the oil is dumped out of the engine into a self sealed container for easy removal. All you need to do is put new oil back in. Your hands don't get dirty and it as fast as you can poor oil into your engine. Sounds great doesn't it? Except for when people are either tricked or accidently push the "Oil Ejection Button" while driving down the interstate at 80 MPH.
So the next revision puts a sticker under the button "Don't push unless you really mean too". People still push the button at the wrong times anyway.
So the next revision removes the button from the dash and puts it in the glove compartment. Out of sight out of mind! Unfortunately people will stuff their glove compartment and accidently hit the button.
So the next revision will automatically kill the engine and stop it from running if the "Oil Ejection Button" is pressed while the engine is running. Thats great for saving the engine but now you've just stranded yourself in the middle lane of the interstate and your car is now locked up.
So on and so forth. MS fails to realize that some tasks are somewhat serious, system altering tasks. Making users believe they can handle it quickly with the tools they provide without risk is lunacy. What is worse is often their "fixes" fail to realize the core of the problem. In this example putting the button anywhere near the driver invites disaster. In short: MS creates many good features with lousy implementation.
- MS likes to cram their car full of stuff that they think is handy. Some of it good and some of it bad. As time goes on they aren't agressive enough with removing "out of style" features so you end up with a car that is parts and pieces of sadan, SUV, pickup, compact that is ugly as sin if you take a close look at it. Some parts simply don't make sense together and you can't ask them to be removed. Why do you need the MS CB Radio again? Why do you need pull a trailer with the MS Hitch if you only plan to run to the grocery store with it? Trying to make a "one size fits all" car creates an ugly car.
Billy Joel's car run the home edition?
If I don't trust my data to Windows because it's so unreliable, what makes you think I'm going to trust my LIFE with it? The prospect of being in, or near, a moving car with Windows-controlled systems frankly terrifies me.
If it even catches on, it will only last until the first huge, multiple-fatality accident caused by a Windows glitch, when the survivors and/or victims' next of kin find out about and go screaming to the media about the EULA buried in the car's lease agreement that prevents them from suing Microsoft.
I was under the impression that BMW's series 5 and up have a form of Windows (I thought CE) in them already. I was also under the impression this has been going on for 3 years. It is one of the reasons the 7 series has had problems, such as locking drivers in thier own car. They have a tendency to shutdown for no reason. The problems relate to the computer chip and software used in the cars...
Now I can get the new CarJack virus, that causes my car to drive itself over to the nearest chop-shop!
Is there a Norton For Cars out yet? McAfee Automotive Edition?
HexaByte
HexaByte - he's a square and a half!
Blue Screen of DEATH.
-- I'm not a pessimist, I'm a realist. It's not my fault that life sucks so much. --
Even worse than Windows crashing would be the eventual exploits.
"I haven't been drinking officer. My car has been infected with the W32.Souser worm!"
I've done software for engine control computers. And I've seen the reliability necessary in automotive softwrae, and the reasons for it. (One example I was involved in fixing: If the idle speed control algorithm tends to stall the engine about a car length after starting up at a stop sign you've got serious problems.)
I will NEVER buy a car with Microsoft software applications built-in at ANY level. (Even if it is (allegedly) only an audio system. A BSOD on the sound system will distract the driver who will try to fix it - and a 95 Db screech will make him lose control.)
EVERY system in a car may become life-critcial under certain circumstances. Microsoft has a track record of dangerous software bugs. If an auto manufacturer uses their products ANYWHERE IN THE CAR it tells me their engineering standards have slipped unacceptably from those considered minimal in the '60s and '70s (and they're considerably higher now.)
Bantam Dominique roosters crow a four-note song. Once you've heard it as "Happy BIRTHday" you can't NOT hear it that way
Laugh What you're describing is Heel Toe Braking and it is used in auto racing.
Exactly what we've come to expect from Windows upgrades -- breaking a feature people have come to rely on.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
It should also be noted that BMW is a high-end product, so they aren't necessarily concerned with licensing fees. So it isn't about money. One thing that BMW is concerned with - quality when it comes to their brand image.
I have owned BMWs for about 9 years now (and no, I can't afford new ones). But BMW is VERY strict when it comes to using their logos and even colors in anything. They are very brand conscious, because they don't want it diluted. They produce phenominal cars, and want to make sure that their brand is associated with quality. I was a little sad when I heard that they had chosen a Microsoft product for their vehicles for that very reason. I actually thought that Apple is a lot like BMW in some respects. They aren't the biggest car maker, they are somewhat of a niche product catering to a very specific customer, and they produce high-quality products. I think Apple would be a great choice, but I think a BMW-home-grown product would also be cool. (Hello? SuSE?)
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
Blue Car of Death!
- Kevin
The less confident you are, the more serious you have to act.
Driver steps on brake pedal
Windows: "Please restart your car for the settings to take effect"
I'm sure you can think of many more..
I am the maverick of Slashdot
I will be driving 65MPH on a busy freeway when the windshield turns a pretty shade of blue as the following appears: "Your brakes have performed an illegal operation and will be shut down immediately."
having OSX in cars instead should give a new meaning to the term "Road Apple". ;)
jus' kiddin'!
Given that some people make car trips shorter than the average windows boot time, I don't think Microsoft should be putting anything in automotive electronics.
Given that most people expect their cars to work, I don't think Microsoft should even consider marketting to the dashboard computer.
Given that people and states tend to sue the manufacturer when car parts don't work, I don't believe Microsoft should put anything into a car. Unlike the anti-trust trial, lemon laws are fairly well established and have been successfully enforced against large corporations.
Microsoft may be pushing to sell, but Detroit's not buying. IIRC, earlier this year GM threatened to ditch Windows completely and run with Linux after the latest worm crippled nearly 100,000 of their workstations.
It's kind of hard to convince someone that your OS is worthy to be put in automobiles when it rendered their workstations useless. If Microsoft can't handle a desktop computer, how would they be able to manage a car or SUV? Microsoft has neither done anything right the first time, nor worked in an industry with substantial liability risk and lemon laws. Automakers know that to put Microsoft Windows behind the dash is just asking to be sued; unlike the desktop world, a car that fails to work is a lemon, and the automaker is required to fix it at their expense. The last thing GM and Ford want to do is push service packs with oil changes and issue recalls every time Microsoft discovers yet another security vulnerability.
The society for a thought-free internet welcomes you.
I guess now we will have to make a reboot button on the car... :-/
Now, you just hack into their car, and have them rear-end a police car.
Fight Spammers!
Metroworks is refining some unleaded just for you.
Do they actualy realize that their tech guys will be called Automotive Business Unit Service Engineers? ABUSE, in case you haven't noticed. Funny :)
You are more than the sum of what you consume. Desire is not an occupation.
http://www.snopes.com/humor/jokes/autos.htm
CC.
TaijiQuan (Huang, 5 loosenings)
and apparently it's safer, too
I will not use ANY products that have M$ embedded or otherwise loaded into them.
I use OLD equipment and OLD cars to be certain of this. My car is 30 years old (yes, it still runs great and looks excellent) it has SEVEN analog computers in it. I can fix everything in that car myself. EVERYTHING.
I just had back surgery last month and I was TERRIFIED when they rolled me into the O.R. and I lay there looking around at all the M$ screens, I even heard some of them making that XP error sound too. The last thought that went through my head as they put me under was "Dear God, my very life is in the hands of these friggin M$ machines!" I still have nightmares of those moments in my life..
I will NOT buy or use a cell phone or computer or anything else that runs any variation of ANY M$ products.
I totally and absolutely boycott M$, to my dying breath.
"From Hell's heart I stab at thee. For hate's sake I spit my last breath at thee!"
--
Especially when WiFi becomes standard equipment :)
The results have been less than rosey. One famous example is the Thai Finance Minister who was trapped in his BMW after WinCE crashed and immobilized the vehicle - doors, locks, windows, AC, everything.
Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
You could have it crash before it crashes.
Things to look forward to:
Reboot on the San Diego Freeway during rush
You turn off the ignition and it asks if you're sure you want to do that
You turn off ignition and it asks if you want to install patches before shutdown (then notice the next morning it's been stuck in a loop installing patches all night [this was the case with my laptop at work])
You can only hook up MS DRM stereos, installed by MCSE's
Blue Windscreen of Death
All the cars in the world get cracked and do syncronized driving or demo-derby
Yet another mandatory service you must have performed by a certified professional for $$$ (all repairs are insanely expensive now, if you haven't had wiring, eletronics, mechanicals, count yourself lucky!)
You keep getting passed by that commie nutjob in the the veedub running Linux, despite Ballmer insisting you should have more power.
A feeling of having made the same mistake before: Deja Foobar
Worried about cars? the U.K. Navy intends to run its nuclear submarines on Win 2000 http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/09/06/ams_goes_w indows_for_warships/
I hope you enjoy having the air conditioning come on when the outdoor temperature is somewhere south of freezing, or having the wipers quit at rush hour in heavy rain, or having the headlamps turn off/dome lamps turn on while driving a mountain road at night.
If you think that just the entertainment systems would be under Redmond's control for now, then think about having your car stereo suddenly pumping out 130 dBA of distortion just as you're trying to change lanes at 130 kph.
On an automotive platform, there are precious few systems that aren't safety-related.
Lacking <sarcasm> tags,
I just saw an ad selling a $1,000 entertainment system for the back of cars that included two video screens in the back of the front seat headrests as well as headphones for the kids. My first thought was, overpaid, crappy, career obsessed parents. Then I thought, what if the kids can't hear their parents reminding them to put on their seatbelts because they're watching Britney Spears disrobe on the ABC Family Channel. The driver looks back at his kids to repeat himself and crashes into a Starbucks at which point the kids fly face first into the Liquid Crystal Displays that now act as thier surrogate parents. Neglect is becoming fashionable.
What if Digg added local news and a Slashdot inspired comment karma system? ---
http://houndwire.com
Geez...Slashdotters are slacking on the puns..
We need more: "New meaning to the Three Finger Salute" or "Blue Windshield of Death" or "Clippy: Would you like me to apply the brakes?"
Sig it.
To anyone who is reading this thread and works in the automotive industry: think about liability and your responsibility to the safety of your customers.
From the article: "Windows Automotive, by the way, does not share a network with the low-level systems of a vehicle--so a software crash won't result in, say, brake failure."
Keep it that way. If Windows sinks any lower into the control systems of the car, I will certainly never buy such a car, and I will warn everyone I know to avoid such a car. Anyone reading this from Consumer Reports or the auto insurance industry should take note, too. Windows is simply not safe for controlling anything--it isn't even safe for browsing the WWW! Just wait, it'll be a matter of weeks before someone figures out how to hack the stereo volume remotely; what if it were the throttle?
-- "Makes Little Debbie look like a pile of puke!" - Moe Szyslak
Running Windows in a car is nothing new to aftermarket car audio/multimedia enthusiasts. Clarion had the AutoPC out in 1998 and it ran WinCE. The AutoPC had decent voice recognition, navigation capabilities, the ability to load programs and even integrate with a cellphone. http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,16635, 00.html
You know at comdex in 1997 at chicago MS proclaimed that windows would soon be in autos..
Here it is 2004 and the auto industry has embraced embedded linux instead..
So where is the proof of MS's statement?
Don't Tread on OpenSource
NO, you insensitive clod! I already get enough tickets, fines, fees, and if anyone's noticed --when you get too many tickets in Boston, they UNREGISTER YOU TO VOTE! I can't imagine having a faulty car that REALLY crashes.
Zhrodague.net - I do projects and stuff too.
Over my dead body....oh, wait.
Why would you want to do this?
No. 1 requirement for a car is safety.
No. 2 requirement for a car is reliability.
No. 3 requirement for a car is cost, and obviously this interacts with (1) and (2).
Fun-to-drive and performance start at No. 4, other than that inadequate performance can be unsafe.
My first FI car was a 78 VW Rabbit, with *mechanical* fuel injection. Reliable as all get out. Sometime later, VW added what seemed to be an electronic tweak to the mechanical injection. In other words, the mechanical got it as good as my Rabbit was, but the electronics could make it better. But the car could run without the electronics.
I don't like too much electrical stuff it a car, when it adds new points of failure. Not to be a Luddite, but let's separate mission-critical from nice-to-have, keep the mission-critical as reliable as economically possible. Then remember that even if it's merely nice-to-have, it will still cost to have repaired.
The living have better things to do than to continue hating the dead.
Will this car be 75% cheaper to run than the other Open-Source based cars?
Random bugs
iDrive locks guy in car (Thai minister of finance)
I remember reading something about this a while ago. It said that BMW tried to move away from using Windows CE on their high end 740/750(I believe), and if not the 5 series, because they felt that the CE operating system couldn't do what they need.
They were seeking open source alternatives. Linux, obviously came to mind.
Sorry, I don't have the link handy.
People will pay a small fortune to keep the kids quiet in the back seats...
Hmm, I can't figure out why. Ball gags and hand cuffs are quite inexpensive...
HA! I just wasted some of your bandwidth with a frivolous sig!
I dispise cars and our dependence on them but what have they done to deserve assimilation?
SLASHDOT: news for people who can't concentrate on work or have no life at all and got tired of yelling back at the TV.
I attended "Convergence" this week. I didn't have time to stop by the MS stuff, as there were so many vendors with relevant products there. There were also several companies showing motorola PPC chips running Linux and playing video. AMD was there, but mainly to push flash and embedded processors. There is a place for tech to get into cars, MS just doesn't understand where that is yet.
Officer: I caught you doing 90 in a 55.
Me: Sorry, my spedometer crashed...look!
http://www.saabnet.com/tsn/photo/0404.html
cue the "gives a whole new meaning to BSoD" replies...
will my next car run windows?
i fucking hope not!!!
lets all pray msoft just goes back to wherever it came from and stops thinking it needs to have its hands into everything.....just a bad idea to me
Car: Your Operating system has crashed, would you like to a) reboot b) continue driving c) use brakes d) try later
Driver: ARRRGGGHHHHHH
I will NOT buy any car that runs any flavor of Windows. Now or ever.
Mark my words, the quickest way to lose me as a customer is to put Windows under the hood or in the dash.
Nissan, Toyota, and Honda should pay particular attentention to this, as they are my cars of choice.
Sincerely,
A current but potentially former customer
Lose Weight and Feel Great with Isagenix
...has a single pedal that you push on the top to make it go forward. Let go and allow the pedal to center at the "neutral" position and the vehicle stops. Push the pedal at the bottom with your heel (it pivots in the center of the pedal) and the mower goes in reverse. There are separate pedals for left and right brakes, but they are completely unnecessary and I never use them, except for parking on a hill.
Random bugs
Toyotas are belong to us!
- Kevin
The less confident you are, the more serious you have to act.
...and a 95 Db screech
That's dB not Db.
Thank You,
your friendly pedantic twit
Or, they'll blame cars for being too expensive.
Software Piracy Due to Expensive Hardware, Says Ballmer
They're used to blaming poor drivers for crashes.
No!
...Windows Automotive is probably yet another rehash on the same concept they've been trying to push for most of the last decade.
We've also seen the result in high-end BMWs with i(can't)Drive. Thus far the implementations have been very flawed to say the least. Sure, MS won't control your engine or modulate your antilock brakes, but they DO want to control your radio, heating/AC, security system, GPS navigation, etc.
MS has come at automotive apps like it was another PC. Not only is is a royal PITA to navigate dynamic menus to operate your radio, climate control, etc...it is also dangerous. WinAuto might not crash because it blows up your engine, but it could be a safety hazard if the cumbersome interface keeps changing the radio station to Michael Bolton when you try to defrost your windshield, or the trunk flies open on the freeway, or your locks refuse to operate to let you out of the car, or the GPS navigation sends you the wrong way down a one-way road etc etc...
MS historically doesn't begin to hit its stride until the third major release of a technology. I sure don't want any cars on the road with WinAuto v1.x or 2.x that's for sure.
If a car can run windows I'm sure someone will hack it and run linux on the car
Only one in ten people would actually get it started on their own.
No owners' manuals. You either know how to drive or you don't.
There'd be no brake lights, turn signals, gauges, or steering wheel. Real drivers don't need all those extras. They do it the hard way because they can.
Door locks would be pgp-encrypted
No windows.
posted
MS will surely blame it on the drivers.
I think this should been have modded insightful.
One way or another MS will spin this into users fault.
"what you can get out of the car, cause the software malfunction!!Well you should have sent it to be patched.We already roll one last month."
NO THANKS.
Timang tinggi tinggi
parang sudah asah
alang alang mandi
biar sampai basah
BMW has already advertised this....
You win. The thread is done now.
Considering my first (and only) car is a 1976 MGB convertable. If anything, I'll be moving to home grown ecu software (vems), with a K-series engine out of a land rover.
My next car might, _might_ be one of the new mini's. But I'll certainly be replacing the ecu/traction control stuff.
I guess if joe schmoe is cool with having problems in his car like he does with his computer I can't stop him. I can only hope he drives off a cliff and cleans up the gene pool a little.
Will we need to buy more licenses to carry passengers?
Gamingmuseum.com: Give your 3D accelerator a rest.
No way will I buy a Windows-driven car, if I can help it. When my "next car" crashes, I fully expect the windows to shatter, not reboot.
No, my next car WILL NOT run Windows. I wouldn't buy that shit even if it was the nicest car out there.
Besides, I prefer imports. Not no stinkin' POS out of Detroit.
A slip of the foot you may soon recover, but a slip of the tongue you may never get over. -Benjamin Franklin
And lets face it, sitting in a car is boring, and a DVD player keeps the little brats quiet and entertained.
Bender: Have you ever thought about taking the time with your kids to sit down, and hit them?
Well, ok, there's the stereo, and possibly the voltage regulator in the alternator. And that's just how I like it...
MS already dictates what PC makers can put on their PC. How your ask? They continue their monopolistic control by how they subsidize a PC makers advertizing, something the legal system didn't consider. Get enough of a kickback from MS and you can beat your competitors margins by a significant amount. Put a Linux advert on the front page of your webpage, or add significant numbers of models running Linux preinstalled and see your ad "allowances" drop to zero.
MS has the $$$ to do this with the auto industry too. And past experience shows us that they will not hesitiate to extend their hegemony in this way. Consider what could happen when one of the Big Three goes with embedded Linux and sees the other two get $B's in ad "allowances".
I'm also reminded of the USS YorkTown, which had to be towed back to port after its four NT's fell over during war games, leaving that warship without fire control or steering. Can you imagine your car suddenly loosing control of steering or engine or lights (at night!) while crusing in heavy traffic on the Interstate because Windows CE crashed or was infected by a virus or trojan?
Is that like double press, and it becomes a brake?
Single press, and you accelerate?
Press and hold, steady speed?
Great, another place for pop-up ads from x10.com or some company selling drugs...
"Looks like you are heading to the Bater Motel. Would you like to get some discount Viagra for your hot date?"
Next, we will have to make sure Gator does not get installed when we get a new carburetor put in at the shop.
and a 95 Db screech will make him lose control
As somebody who works in DO178B land (I've always been curious about how the standards for automotive embedded systems differed from avionics), I will just reinforce that there is a reason every sound produced by every device on a plane must meet strict regulations for what volume, pitch, and decibel range it is capable of producing. Like you said - it's an enormous safety hazard, because in the event of an emergency, everyone gets a lot dumber than they were before the emergency started.
Hey man, can you give me a ride to work this morning? my car crashed last night. -Sorry, I just installed Service Pack Two and now my car won't even start.
What if we got Linux in a car? That would really make ppl happy, and the ploice wouldn't be able to do anything because were not pirating windows
Any auto manufacturer that puts this crap in any car I'm interested in, will find they will get no sale from me. Plain and simple. There's a reason why I like Daimler-Chrysler. They use Linux and are proud of it. The Magnum has 4 different embedded linux devices in the automobile....ontop of HEMI POWER BABY!
*bing-bing*
It look's like you're battery is dead! Microsoft Automotive Assistant can:
*shudder*
"You will soon be more aware of your growing awareness." - My first recursive fortune cookie!
Great - now I can crash my car even after I've already crashed it.
You could have it crash before it crashes.
You can even crash it at the same time! Oh, the possibilities!
Actually, I guess we've exhausted all the possibilities.
Well, that was fun.
Accountability on the heads of the powerful.
Power in the hands of the accountable.
Windows can't even run a computer properly, how can it run my car?
Karma Schmarma
I can see where your coming from. I guess if the car had a tire blowout..."Clippy" would pop-up and say would you like to buy som Trojan-brand tires to prevent blowouts.
In vehicles where the standard transmission is not synchromesh (no sync hubs between the gears) it's necessary to double clutch to change gears. In the process, it's necessary to match the engine rpm with that of the next gear up or down. Heel-to-toe is where the brakes and the gas are stepped on at the same time in order to rev the engine up for a lower gear and slow down at the same time.
Ballmer will get the prices of cars down.
Obviously cars are too expensive and that is what causes piracy, arg, of Windows Automative.
Things I do not want in my car, ever, and why:
- GPS Navigation System: Maybe for some of you, but I have a good direction sense, mapquest, and a printer.
- TV/DVD Player: Are you fucking insane? You can't watch tv while your driving, and I do not drive my car only to have the passengers ignore me while they enjoy the latest simpsons. Entertain your driver damnit! And don't give me that, "But it keeps the kids quiet!" argument. Fuck your kids, your kids suck.
- OnStar: Apparently, you can use onstar to order flowers, arrange vacations, and have a hooker waiting for you on your lunch break. All things that are safer to do while you are NOT DRIVING. Well, maybe not the hooker, but come on people, cell phones are bad enough, now we have a shopping cart system in every rich man's car to distract him from what he should be paying attention to: the road.
- An OS: Since I do not want any of these handy "time saving" services in my car, why in hell's name do I need an OS for in my car? I don't! Last I checked, I don't have one in my current car, and it seems to get me to places just fine. I need windows CE running my car as much as I need MacOSX running the office water cooler.
Sometimes people get so caught installing a computer in everything that they forget to take a step back and think, "Ya know, this is the dumbest idea I have ever had."--Nuintari
slashdot : where an opinion can be wrong.
Ah, but will it run Doom 3?
1. A model year wouldn't be available until AFTER that calendar year.
2. Every time they repainted the lines on the road, you'd have to buy a new car.
3. Occasionally your car would just die for no reason, you'd have to restart it. For some strange reason, you would just accept this.
4. You could only have one person at a time in your car, unless you bought a Car 95 or a Car NT, but then you'd have to buy more seats.
5. Sun Motorsystems would make a car that was solar powered, twice as reliable, 5 times as fast, but only ran on 5% of the roads.
6. The oil, alternator, gas, engine warning lights would be replaced with a single "General Car Fault" warning light.
7. People would get excited about the "new" features in Microsoft cars, forgetting completely that they had been available in other brands for years.
8. We'd all have to switch to Microsoft Gas (tm).
I'd give it a +1 funny if I could
Introducing Microsoft Vacuum 1.0 The first Microsoft product that doesn't suck.
There was a 95 car pile up on the 101 this morning, as EM emmision from a sunspot caused a problem in the cars driving there.
All the drivers were killed by the Blue Windscreen of Death, as the 'Microsoft Collision Avoidance Service' stopped functioning (crashed). MCAS is a new component in the 'Windows 2005 for Car' edition.
Bill Gates was asked if there are any problems with the new system. He is quoted on the event... "All these problems happen because of third parrty software that is downloaded to our systems. Windows Car is a flagship of innovation that gives our users real choice, a great user experience during the driving time in their day."
My friend has a BMW X-5 and it's NAV system crashes. He is not sure if it uses windows, does anyone know this?
I mod down so you can mod up. Your welcome.
My car already has windows....It doesn't need any more...
Just send virus to the target's car. Everything will happen as if it is a car accident.
There is a easy solution to restart all the sistems that hang in the car, you just have to press the three pedals altogether!
Imagine a mesage that says:
"there has been an internal error, please press the three pedals to continue".
Of course many times it won't work and you'll have to turn-off by switching the car off with the key. Also, some third party companies will make a lot of money by installing reset buttons to the cars (especially with those wich work without a key).
Rimember: Jappi Pipol In Da Jaus
under preferences->comments->reason modifier->funny: -6
I would really, really not like to be driving a car that relies on Windows.
Further locking out the owner of the vehicle from access to his own property is the ONLY advantage I see of installing Windows in a car.
And that's not an advantage for the owner.
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, it doesn't go away." - Philip K. Dick
And I'm just positive that was Microsoft/CE's fault and not BMW's. If they'd used what, Linux?, probably everything woud have worked flawlessly.
I wear my cheap sarcasm as a badge as prominent as you wear your badge of OS ra-raism.
Yeah, I read the article and I know that it isn't tied into the low level systems but it is still funny to think about.
There is a lot of room for additional computing in a car. I have no doubt that in some day we will have smart cars capable of doing a whole lot. To some degree it is already here. GM offers On-Star which integrates a cellular system with GPS and remote control of things like door locks. There are plenty of sound systems that have MP3 playback ability and there are DVD players in cars (along with the LCD displays).
It doesn't seem a reach to incorporate voice activation technology with the GPS, cellular, and entertainment systems adding system monitoring functionality and that kind of stuff. I suppose it would even be possible for smart cars to communicate with eachother to make sure they stay a certain distance away for safety. I don't think any of this will be done at the expense of the driver experience, we treasure that too much.
One concern that I have is where is big-brother in all of this? Could these systems be used to catch speeders? Reconstruct a driver's path and driving habits? Could your car "tattle" on you in court? It is a fine line we walk between freedom to use these devices and the way they can be used against us. Can a company use built in electronics to check on their employees? Can a spouse use them to check on their other half? Can a parent check on a child?
If you build in the software to check to see where a stolen car is, then you can do all of these other things. What is there to protect us against that kind of stuff?
I'm not against this, frankly, I think it exciting. But someone has to ask the questions and the makers have to acknowlege the possibility of mis-use. Already the FBI has obtained warrants to use On-Star like equipment to wiretap.
Says the Microsoft person:
Red Hat, Novell, and other commercial internet distros don't?I'm still dinking around with Knoppix and a few FOSS type utilities, plus I'm getting used to OpenOffice.org. I'm a newbie and haven't paid a dime to any Linux developer. That being said, even I can see that some people can and do pay for their Linux goodness. The companies that supply them must therefore have "skin" in the game. The fact that some of the development is done free is quite irrelevant.
Maybe this is not important, or everyone is just used to it, but it irritated me. It gives us freeloaders a bad name.
Why do I have this? I don't smoke.
If no one will do that, I'll drive my 2000 Honda until 2040 when I'll but a non-Windows flying car with full autopilot and a voice-command interface. My last Honda went 262,000 miles without Windows - I'll bet by current Honda can triple that (at least).
Laws affecting technology will always be bad until enough techies become lawyers.
Jesus Christ on a crutch. I do NOT want any kinda MS software in a vehicle that HAS to get me places. Do you know how long you can drive before HAVING to shut off your engine?!?! Just for maintanence, you can keep it running while refilling the tank. I don't want to have to worry about memory leaks, piss poor code, etc.
-- Liberalism is a mental disorder.
Any Color You Want, As Long As It's Blue!
Instead of being "Mr. Goodwrench" certified, will all future mechanics be called MCAE's (Microsoft Certified Automotive Engineers)
If your sister tries to drive the car, will it complain about non Windows approved drivers?
This is just waaaaay too easy
Introducing Microsoft Vacuum 1.0 The first Microsoft product that doesn't suck.
Anyone know where one can get an evaluation version of Windows Automotive? I am doing a design project in which it could be quite useful. I couldn't find any reference to an eval version on MS's website. thanks!
iPod Your BMW. Says Apple, this is "The first seamless integration of iPod and automobile."
Others had made similar homebrew iPod and non-iPod solutions before (and iPod and non-iPod after) Apple/BMW's solution.
At this point, it doesn't look like Apple has any official plans to unveil further integration of Apple technology with automobiles. Of course, Apple almost always "does not comment on unreleased products."
the JoshMeister on Security
New York City. The not so distant future.
Fade In:
Ext. City Street
A futuristic car zooms down the street.
Vehicle Int.
A driver comfortably rides in his moderately priced Microsoft Windows Enhanced automobile.
Suddenly, a homeless man stumbles out into the street, only a hundred yards ahead of the vehicle.
The driver knows that his Microsoft Windows Enhanced automobile comes with the best anti-collision program pre-installed. Instead of freaking out, the driver calmly applies the break button when suddenly...
A giant Paper Clip Hologram appears directly in front of the driver.
Driver: What the h--
Clippy: It looks like you are trying to avoid hitting a pedestrian. Would you like help?
You can (A) Get help with avoiding the pedestrian. or (B) Just avoid the ped -
Thump.
iPod Your BMW. Apple has links to pages on BMW's site showing how they're integrated as well. Says Apple, this is "The first seamless integration of iPod and automobile."
Others had made similar homebrew iPod and non-iPod solutions before (and iPod and non-iPod after) Apple/BMW's solution.
At this point, it doesn't look like Apple has any official plans to unveil further integration of Apple technology with automobiles. Of course, Apple almost always "does not comment on unreleased products."
the JoshMeister on Security
A dialog window will popup.... "Do you really want to stop?"
Last year the Thai Finance Minister was trapped inside his BMW allegedly due to a software glitch. http://www.thaivisa.com/index.php?514&backPID=514& tt_news=325
But another report said it was due to an electronic failure..
http://asia.cnet.com/news/systems/0,39037054,39130 270,00.htm
We are sorry your passenger is not licensed to listen to this radio broadcast. Please see your car manual for upgrading your licence to add additional seats licences.
"640 K ought to be enough for anybody." -- Bill Gates, 1981
To the extent that Windows is used in core automotive systems, it will be subject to safety and liability issues just like other components.
Windows could start figuring into product liability lawsuits. I'd buy tickets to see that play out.
org.slashdot.post.SignatureNotFoundException: ewg
The windows in my car work just fine and I have 6 of them. Four of them are as interactive as I get with windows anymore. I put it up, I put it down. It even has it's own version of "Shutdown": Push the button, hold for .5 sec and release and it will go down all by itself.
My question is: If this was in a Jeep, could I "remove the windows" when I go off-roading or would I have to rebuild the Jeep? Will there be an "Add/Remove Hardware" button in the jeep to remove and install my windows? What about the doors or the hard top?
I still drive classic cars with carburetors bacause I find them cheaper to maintain, cheaper to buy, and in general (other than totally new cars) more dependable. Not to mention being hardend to magnetic pulse guns the police are starting to introduce. I have a degree in EET, and am well aware of the limitations of microchips. If GM is trying to woo me to buy some of their pricey new products, it's not gonna happen by installing windows.
Disclaimer: three of my family members work as engineers for FORD.Renault already bought this?
Got Pike?
You install the latest service pack for "Windows GT" in your car and then the navigation system keeps giving you directions to Redmond.
Sorry, but this statement is straight up false. The WinCE kernel is based off of the Windows NT 4.0 kernel. Also, WinCE shares the architecture of Windows 2000.
Microsoft ripped out a large part of the OS functionality and replaced other parts. Most of the API is the exact same as Win2K, but a lot of function calls with eleven arguments under Win2K require to you pass nine of them as NULL or zero under WinCE.
Just imagine the security situation this chainsaw OS surgery has created. Think bluesnarfing is fun now? Try it when you can hijack the entire entertainment and navigation system of that expensive SUV that just cut you off!
this is a seriious issue ! what if windows craches are a critical point, lives can be lost because of that, responsible people should take appropriate measures it's not computer we are talking about, crashing here would mean much much more :(
I've heard that Microsoft made a presentation to some big car company, and insisted that Microsoft had to control the content of the startup screen. The car people did not like that at all.
Friends don't let friends download and drive.
Software Crashes take lives.
Next time you download... run a virus scan or wipe your hard drive.
Just 1Kb is enough to kill.
Please step on brake, gas, and clutch simultaneously to reboot.
More like brake, gas, and passenger-side door lock simultaneously
a slow and torturous death. Its like when you kill a snake. You keep hitting it in the head but it keeps squirming around and clinging to the hope that it will live. It has been this way now for a while, IE, Media Center, Cell Phones, now cars. . . People are getting wise!
$ whatis msft msft: nothing appropriate
I don't know about you but when I buy a car I want to know that it's going to be reliable. From my understanding that is why Handa is gaining in such popularity with families. When I read this I couldn't believe car manufacturers. A company that is known to make unreliable software is going to be contorling my anti-lock breaking, cruse. I might as well just drive into a wall or on coming traffic myself, save myself some money.
So we your car can spread viruses as you pass traffic!
As to owners manuals. Try checking your windows box and a suse box. See wich manual is clearer. Or try wich one has the clearer install. The nice graphical linux gui or the Windows dos text with F3 and other weird keys for choices.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
Would the Windows license be transferable to other drivers of your car? Do you have to buy a site or seat license?
Yopu for you?
General Motors says software and electronics already are responsible for more than one-third of the cost of a typical automobile, and an IBM executive predicted this week that the figure will be closer to 90 percent in five years.
And I thought a license for Windows on a PC was expensive...
Sadly it caught fire and 2 people inside and the driver were killed. And this was with truck airbrakes wich unless I remember badly from school are supposed to brake when braking power is lossed. Air pressure is used to release the brakes so then if a hose should burts the brakes will engage. And still the brakes failed even despite this fail safe. (not sure if brakes do still work this way ABS would be impossible this way)
So no mechanics are not safer, even this very simple system does fail.
Can fly by wire systems be made safe enough? I do know for a fact that the dutch F16 fighters wich are well maintained crash an awfull lot. These are fighters wich are checked after every flight.
My point being that we are already seeing problems with tech. Until we can finally get a non-crashing windows I don't want windows touching anything more important then my game savefiles.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
In the middle of rush hour traffic, Clippy will appear on your windshield asking if you want to take an alternate route.
Mod Karma -1: I sed bad wurds. If I cep my mouf shut, I wud be at riyses.
The problems start when they add everything and the kitchen sink into this kernel and you try to run it on your pc configuration.
Note that x-box can not browse the web. No IE. That is at least half the bugs and security holes removed.
MMO Quests are like orgasms:
You may solo them, I prefer them in a group.
MS peddling wares in Detroit. OK.
fuck no.
heh
SSreiously, ig Microsoft gets into the automotive industry that heavily, they will be in for a rude awakening when a car crashes and they get sued for there faulty software, And they will get sued.
The way the court systems views cars is a lot differently then software. Even if they only do media, thye could be at risk. If someone is driving down the road, and suddenlt there radio starts blaring at 110 decibles causing them to crash, every person involved in that crash will sue MS...and win.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
Are you sure that this is not that joke I have heard again and again?
Seriously this is terrible. I work in an industrial automation environment and I see PC parts and software creeping in and think that it sucks. Everything is disposable, fragile, and full of bugs. Now we can expect virus's, trojans, malware, adware, bugs, features etc in our cars.
I hope Detroit laughs them out of the building, but I know that they will not. It is most likely going to impress the PHB and accountants that they can save money somewhere and be able use their Outlook calandar in their car to see if the golf game is this after noon or next.
like my fish needs a bicycle.
Microsoft had a chance to fix a bunch of design flaws with CE when they started writing it. It is as much of junk as Windows itself is. My CE phone blue screened in the middle of phone calls(POS). Now why should I believe that they can somehow rewrite again and make it work? Come on. Third time is a charm. BS.
ie. I was at an IBM training session with a partner who sells Citrix terminals. Their citrix terminals can get INFECTED by the same internet worms that affect Windows. WTF?! The answer, 'well just reset the terminal nightly'. Great answer.
Microsoft is already slow about issuing patches. Are we supposed to wait for MS to issue a patch, the terminal manufacturer to test the patch, then push an upgraded terminal binary? SLOW Now imagine your car, bluetooth enabled or whatever... cracked from several miles away. Does this mean you have to power cycle your car to clear the cracker's breakin?
Deploy Airbar?
Yes No
"Back of dad's hand", version 1, to keep us quite.
Of course when I was a kid seat belts where those wierd thing you stuffed under the seat.
The Kruger Dunning explains most post on
M$ should be in enough legal trouble by all the harm they cause as a desktop os (mental anguish, frustration, injuries by flying pieces of hardware.) I'd hate to see all the legal problems they have from road accidents. Brings a whole new meaning to road rage. Honestly officer i didn't do it, windows crashed on me.
does the dmv still use pencil & paper or do they use computer's...don't we have to have a drivers license before we can drive?
So the insurance may rise because you haven't intalled the patch KB835732, because it could allow an attacker to compromise a car running (if it is still running) Windows and gain complete control over it.
"In 6 hours I switch to SP2 and I could save on my car insurance"
Does my policy cover ie?
The first rule of USENET is you do not talk about USENET.
Cripes dude, talk about not having a friggin point...
I think my next car will run Holly or Edelbrock and not have any computers in it. As overpriced as new cars are today I can build a very nice late 60's muscle car and still get 25-30 mpg and not have a crashing OS or spying black box.
Microsoft announced that in order to track bugs they will include a new dump screen called the "Blue windshield of death"
"I bow to no man" - Riddick
Imagine driving down the road and at 12:01pm a virus becomes active and all cars infected make a sudden hard left at full throttle. I don't want to be an MS basher, but there needs to be some regulations or at least certifications that the software is secure and does what it promises. I know, every car computer has some kind of bug, but with Windows in control of EVERYTHING, well ...
Yeah, because we lived in fear of someone wheeling around with a kung-fu backhand and leaving you sobbing in the back seat until you got to Grandmas.
Nowadays children have no fear of their parents, so they need some distractions.
Lost at C:>. Found at C.
also, diy-efi.org
My opinions are my own, and do not necessarily represent those of my employer.
Didn't we just read him ranting about how the world needs cheaper hardware for windows so no one will pirate software?
And now he wants to put windows on a $60,000 BMW.
Or maybe he only wants to put windows on Yugo's.
(for those who are upset at this----the post is a joke)
from the Demented Cartoon Movie. "This is your on-board computer system. Would you like to crash?" "Well no, not really.. but" "Do you want to crash?" "Noooo..." "Then maybe you should steer." "But I'm bad at tha..." BLAM
the 1996 M5 didn't run windows, and that's my next car. easy enough....
When I visited the "Microsoft Museum" in 2000 they had Windows CE automotive edition on display. It was basically the same as this: a control system for the audio systems, GPS, maps, all the usual suspects, using an LCD and joystick control. They also showed a film about using voice control and universal wireless contact so you could talk to your personal agent (presumably running on a server somewhere that Microsoft/MSN gets a cut from) through your PDA, your car, your entertainment center.
This is not news, they just think they have voice control that's good enough to actually implement another piece of the puzzle. My experience with voice control on Microsoft Pocket PCs has been less than impressive, so I don't expect much useful to come from this.
In Soviet Russia, car TELLS YOU where you want to go.
I'd like to dip my balls in that.
At a recent computer expo, Bill Gates reportedly compared the computer industry with the auto industry and stated "If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving $25.00 cars that got 1,000 miles to the gallon.
In response to Bill's comments, General Motors issued a press release stating: If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:
For no reason whatsoever, your car would crash twice a day.
Every time they repainted the lines in the road, you would have to buy a new car.
Occasionally your car would die on the freeway for no reason. You would have to pull over to the side of the road, close all of the windows, shut off the car, restart it, and reopen the windows before you could continue. For some reason you would simply accept this.
Occasionally, executing a maneuver such as a left turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart, in which case you would have to reinstall the engine.
Macintosh would make a car that was powered by the sun, was reliable, five times as fast and twice as easy to drive - but would run on only five percent of the roads.
The oil, water temperature, and alternator warning lights would all be replaced by a single "General Protection Fault" warning light.
The airbag system would ask "Are you sure?" before deploying.
Occasionally, for no reason whatsoever, your car would lock you out and refuse to let you in until you simultaneously lifted the door handle, turned the key and grabbed hold of the radio antenna.
Every time GM introduced a new car, car buyers would have to learn to drive all over again because none of the controls would operate in the same manner as the old car.
You'd have to press the "Start" button to turn the engine off.
it can be a good thing....especially for those of us who don't get new cars that run windows (or those who install linux) or just continue to ride our old cars should get an insurance discount....for not CRASHING!
but what about security holes? will a windows based car let unwanted ppl in my car when for instance, I drive over a speed bump? Or will the trunk pop open when I go over a pothole?
I forgot whether it was Mercedes or BMW that already is using onboard Windows CE in their cars. Anyway, I know someone who knows someone who had a BMW 7 series. They were driving it over the Dumbarton Bridge when suddenly their entire car "shut down"; the driver was unable to control the car or stop it and ended up having the car totalled in the resulting collision.
I also recall reading about a high-end Mercedes car completely shutting down while parked and trapping the user inside; the user was unable to unlock/open the doors or roll down the windows. A passerby ended up having to find something to break the windows open with to let the user out.
Power windows are sketchy enough already; if one drives their vehicle into a body of water, unless it's some sort of amphibious vehicle, the window servos will short out and prevent one from rolling down the windows. Since one cannot roll down the windows, one would not be able to equalize the pressure inside the cabin of the vehicle and thus the user will not be able to get the doors open, at least not until the water finishes seeping through the cracks.
Many of today's automotive trends take control away from the user; perhaps in the case of the in-duh-viduals, these trends will be more beneficial than harmful, but these trends are definitely harmful to the experienced driver. For example, some cars already detect skids and correct the driver's actions by override if the user is making the skid worse. The scariest part is not the loss of control over the car, but the situation of computer failure.
There is a right time and right place for everything. Cars should be off limits to microsoft. The last thing I want when driving to my best bud's wedding is for the MS based GPS software to BSOD. Point being: A car is a valuable thing, as is your life. Just remember, when you fall out the window, the mighty penguin will be there to catch you :P
that's all.
that's my answer.
Having owned a Fiat 128 a long time ago, I can say that it is completely appropriate for Fiat to offer Microsoft's software in 23 of their models. After all, the car will be in the shop most of time, so any Microsoft related issues can be dealt with then.
Folks,
/.) but I need to start somewhere.
This is a subject very close to my heart so I would be willing to maintain a online database of cars that have Windows Inside. I think the most high profile machines are the current generation BMW 5 and 7 series with iDrive. I also read in the previous article about the renegade Renault that it was Windows based.
So, this is a call to you gear heads, particularly in Europe (petrol heads ?) to help out. Maybe we can use our buying power (umm, okay, this is
I am a huge fan of the BMW M-series of cars. However, the latest M5 has Windows based iDrive, albeit with allegedly reduced complexity from the original iDrive first seen in the 7-series. While the specs on this car are awesome, the recent review in Automobile clearly shows that a large number of functions related to dynamic behaviour of the car (shift programs, suspension controls, etc) must be accessed via the iDrive system which to me is a big problem -- it means that I have to trust the CE code which I am loathe to do.
If you are willing to participate and I get enough interest, I will set up a wiki or something similar so you can all send in the data.
shiv AT sikand DOT org
Cheers,
Shiv
At a recent computer expo (COMDEX), Bill Gates stated: "If GM had kept up with technology like the computer industry has, we would all be driving twenty-five dollar cars that got 1000 mile to the gallon."
Jack Welch (General Motors) replied: "If GM had developed technology like Microsoft, we would all be driving cars with the following characteristics:
1. Occasionally, executing a manoeuvre such as a left turn would cause your car to shut down and refuse to restart. In which case you would have to reinstall the engine.
2. Every time they repainted the lines on the road you would have to buy a new car.
3. You'd press the 'Start' button to shut off the engine."
I hate Windows from the bottom of my soulless being as it is now, trying to solve menial tasks running trivial software. I'd rank controlling the vehicle I'm in as mission-critical. The nearest it gets to my car is in the trunk as long as the puter in question is turned off.
'Once scientists, even the dim-witted social scientists, get muzzled, the Western Civilization is finished.' - oldhack
The trip begins after answering the question "Where do you want to go today?"
Oh well, posting AC means this will be mostly fruitless but for the few guys actually wanting to know... ;-)
Put OSEK, MOST (Media Oriented Systems Transport) or autosar in a google search and see for yourself what chances some Redmond jerks have in the auto industry. MOST is copyright'ed and a lot of stuff has been taken off the web but you might still find something. Windows is a brandmark with consumers so some manufacturers might see fit to use it for the UI system, but the real stuff won't be MS for quite some years to come. You can bet the auto industry guys watched with great interest the bullshit MS tried to pull in the handheld phone business.
If cars were like OS.
Macs would be a Ferrari with a two cylinder engine. However, they would have a cult following, because they "look so cool"
Windows cars would be full of holes, cost a fair amount and crash often. But everyone uses them because %90 of the gas on the market runs in them.
Linux cars would be created by an ad-hoc group of people who work together, each group creating their own part, that must be assembled by the user. However there are some car distros that come pre-assembled. Including the famous Gentoo distro which comes with robotic foundry that first creates another robotic foundry, and then that foundry starts creating each part for the car. This distro is is popular, because you car will be optimized for the gas in your area.
BSD cars would be exactly like the Linux cars
except they insist that the steering wheel be on the right side of the car than on the left. And hence, they are not as popular, but gaining support in some "geek" circles.
BeOS cars are still on the market, but are no longer being produced since Be Automotive whent out of business and sold it's rights to it's autos to Palm, which makes go-carts.
QNX cars are mostly used by the military and health organizations. There are known for their quick reponse.
Man is the lowest-cost, 150-pound, nonlinear, all-purpose computer system which can be mass-produced by unskilled labor.
Vote Democrat if you get jealous when someone else is having sex with your dog!
Yup.. already in progress :)
Plus you always have the option of restoring older cars.
---- Booth was a patriot ----
Do we really need full entertainment and guidance systems with internet access in the car? Aren't people bad enough at driving without needing more distractions?
The next step for Microsoft is to write an OS which controls the lower level functions of the cars. Once this happens, I'm selling my car and never going on a public street again. Even if my car doesn't have a MS OS running it, other people will -- and their cars will be completely unpredictable...
Imagine what'll happen when we have flying vehicles. Even our houses won't be safe.
The reason girls and Windows users don't understand UNIX is because all the documentation is in Man files.
Since then they have made glossies for an automotive version (along side their PDA version, Smartphone edition etc), though it isn't apparent that they've got many customers onboard.
So long as they stay the hell away from brakes and engine control I'm not too worried.
Engineering is the art of compromise.
...you're going to have the scars to proove it?
These posts express my own personal views, not those of my employer
I can't wait for them to install their "secure" wireless access to the car so you can start it with only a key-fob. Once they have that "blue-tooth" system installed, I'll just walk by, brute-force the encryption, gain console access, pop the locks, start it, and leave. Palm Top with Brain: 1, Criminal's Car Theft Toolkit: 0. Good-evening ladies! And yes, this BMW is mine...
-- Game Developers: Stop porting badly-textured games from crappy console systems!
Customer scenareo videos (WMVs... as if they'd be anything else) from MS, complete with cheesy acting.
--Muzz
Scene: Woman tries to start her car at midnight as some vandals are threatening her.
"Hello! Welcome to the Windows automotive helper. Would you like me to?
a) Start the car,
b) Open the doors,
c) Call for help.
a a a!!!
"Hmm... the car doesn't seem to start. Would you like me to?
a) Check the oil
b) Check the gas
c) Check the engine temperature
Ok, go back! Call the police!
"Seems you're in an emergency! Is it?
a) Fire,
b) Car crash
c) Other
c, just hurry!
"Okay, I don't know what happened in this emergency. So i'll open the doors. Have a nice day".
NOOOOOOOOOOO
(Evil assault scene follows)
Ten minutes later...
"Hey, looks like you're hurt. Would you like me to?"
a) Call the paramedics
b) Call the police
c) Call the fire dept.
"**** up you idiot!!"
"Self destructing... have a nice day."
No. My next car will not run Windows.
i speak for myself and those who like what i say.
I believe BMW's iDrive system runs a CE version of Windows in both the 7 and a more limited version in the new 5 series. The Audi A8 also has something similar.
Reviews hated the system, not because it was buggy or crashed. Mostly because the pointing device is like a pong controller with a few side buttons. Learning to navigate stereo, climate, etc settings is difficult.
There was the, "Don't make me turn this car around" feature in the car as well as the "Parent's backhand of death" feature in the car. It more than often was installed in the car by default, even...
:-)
Worked pretty damn well, if you ask me.
I am not merely a "consumer" or a "taxpayer". I am a Citizen of the State of Texas
spent 30,000 miles being jounced around subject to flying debris, water, oil, SALT, heat, cold, in a semi-open environment. If I get a hydraulic problem I can spot it quickly by seeing the drip, or noticing the reservoir is down a bit, or the warnign light comes on. If I get contaminated fluid, I can still pump the brakes to a stop. If my 'ethernet controlled' brake system fails, I got nuthin'. I dont like having nuthin', when its my brakes I'm talking about.
This gives fond memories of former years administering Windows.
Windows trained me to be on my nerve all the time, like in a war zone where you never know when or where the enemy attacks, and you only have a pistol to shoot and on foot, and no cover at all.
When I switched to linux, I felt like driving a well-armored and well-stocked tank, helping anyone I can get to, and I could get to anyone with the tank.
The secure feeling I get, it's just amazing. I absolutely will not even touch Windows lest I have those horrors re-surface from my subconscious.
I felt like dipping my toe in water after almost having drowned when I first setup XP for someone. I still don't use them, because it was such a horrific memory of being vulnerable at the hands of a software.
I wonder if there is such a thing as Windows users anonymous to alleviate my Windows-phobia.
I can hardly wait for Windows to do for the family minivan what it once famously did for the USS Yorktown.
"How many light bulbs does it take to change a person?" --BMcC-->
I thought QNX was pretty much getting this market wrapped up. Why would automakers want to switch to WinCE after a taste of QNX?
Hey, my steering wheel is not showing up in game controllers after I upgraded to AutomindowsXP...
I'm sorry sir, MicroSoft no longer supports the Sidewinder 3dpro steering wheel. Well yes sir, I understand it is a MicroSoft product. No sir, there are no new drivers available, you will have to upgrade to a newer device......that will be $2500.
-Dooh!
ROTFLMAO!!!!
That was the BEST Clippy joke I've read! I can just hear Gilbert Gottfried as that annoying piece of bent wire who comes in quite handy when I use a Microsoft Office program sometimes. As a programmer, I am in genuine awe at the way his 'idle behavior' AI was coded by Microsoft in the Office 2000 version of the Clippy Office Assistant.
Thank you for the moment of amusement, Skraut, you've made my day! =D
PS: Yes, I'm on Windows. Love 'em or hate 'em, Microsoft is still the PC software king these days. If they go out of business today, the world economy will be in grave danger of 'crashing and burning' without them around to support their buggy, but WILDLY POPULAR software....
I was at the Los Angeles Auto Show a few years back. One of the GM auto makers was showing off their vehicle of the future... It had a rather displeasing original i-Mac color scheme, since i-Macs had just come out roughly 1.5 yrs before.
You get inside and there are no windows (the glass type) insteads their were monitors allowing you to view 360 in all directions.
Being a geek, I decided I would play with some of the controls, while the marketing spokeshole sat there and told me about how thiswas the future.
I changed the track on the CD Player and a nice message displayed at the buttom of the monitor that would make up the drivers side of the front window telling me what CD/Track i was listening to.
Then I fired up the Navigation system... all around me in the 360 degrees of monitors... there was a blue screen of death/exception error.
It was one of thos moments where I wish I had a camera.
Overall, I don't mind the ide of having an OS on the car, I would of course prefer something other than Windows. The key is that the OS must not be a portion of the critical operation of the vehicle. If the stereo/navigation system etc. stops working S.F.W. I can still drive the car.
However if the OS takes the driver input and converts this into the control of the car, I am out...
Those who can do... Those who can't get a certification from Cisco or Microsoft.
Now imagine the traffic with a few of those.
*Press gas*
*Access denied. compiling.... compiling...*
Yup, QNX pretty much owns the automotive space:
Current Auto Mfgs using QNX:
Acura, Audi, BMW, Citroen, Chrysler, Daewoo, Ford, GM, Honda, Hyundai, Mercedes, Nissan, Peugeot, Renault, SAAB, Volkswagen, Volvo.
How scary is it that the the US'es largest software company gets nothing but jokes when they announce they are going into cars?
I look forward to the software-controlled:
-- Zero Acceleration Panel (ZAP)(formerly known as Cruise Control),
-- Bumper Attachment Module (BAM) (formerly known as the tow hitch), and
-- Primary Optical Window (POW)(formerly known as the windshield).
It'll be so nice to have reliable software controlling all the hardware....
world economy will be in grave danger of 'crashing and burning' without them around to support their buggy, but WILDLY POPULAR software
How do you figure that? Perhaps it depends on your definition of "world economy" but if MS disappeared tomorrow I bet:
1) People would still run Windows. New installs would use cracked versions or Linux.
2) The hardware mfrs who "...support [Microsoft's] buggy but WILDLY POPULAR software" would continue to do so. (if you've ever contacted MS or reported a bug you would know that MS emphatically does not support their own software).
3) It would be possible to develop software for Windows without getting crushed by the juggernaut.
4) Third party companies would spring up that could fix all known Windows vulnerabilities faster and cheaper than MS does.
5) Companies stuck on the Windows' upgrade treadmill would suddenly find themselves much more profitable as the treadmill slides to a stop.
Now it has a new and more realistic feeling.
There's already been over 600 comments on this article as I write this, and I bet all of them are of the line "You would have to be mad to install Windows in your car", so there's really nothing more I could add to this discussion, except ...
You would have to be mad to install Windows in your car!
Lets all hope Bill and Steve will test drive the prototype, eh?
What happens if Windows spit out a BSOD while you driving down the freeway ;-)
"With Microsoft, you get Windows. With Linux, you get the full house" - unknown
If M$ tried to run a car then theves will break in constantly. If you had problems with the car the service people will call these "features" of the car..... No M$ will NOT run my car. I have enough problems with my car without MS$ f-ing it more.
What does the BMW iDrive use? I thought it was an embedded version of Windows.
Now to answer the question. Will my next car run Windows?
I HOPE TO GOD NOT!!
ESPECIALLY for anything critical to the car, like the ABS or ignition or anything like that. Some things just do NOT need a "one size fits all when distorted enough" OS. Mission-critical systems do NOT run an consumer-based OS.
Why must manufacturers attempt to make things more complicated than they need to be? Do my windows (no pun intended) really need to have a microprosser-based controller? Does manually turning on and off the headlights really need RAM? Heck, even such automatic functions are best handled by discrete circuits. An electric eye and comparator driving a relay, that is all it takes.
Engine monitoring, OK I can see the benefits of majing it uP-based, but a DEDICATED OS is the way to go.
Government's idea of a balanced budget: take money from the right pocket to balance...oh who am I kidding?
I also recall somewhere that a number of senior automotive execs became extremely leery of MS after they did a presentation of some grand vision they had for the automotive industry. Apparently they the auto execs) like the fact that QSSL, besides making a solid product in QNX, has decided that is all they are going to do. MS could take a lesson from QSSL- do one thing and do it right.
Yes, I want a car with a crash built in. I bet my insurance company does too! their systems are always down and they run Windoze so I can just see the look on their faces when somebody tells them they bought a car with Windoze built in. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha....Not this fool. Can we swap out the OS for Linux or BSD or BeOS or anything?
Banjo - The more I know about Windoze, the more I love *nix
Makes a nice cheep 120G file server running linux.
Question how long before linux hackers start jumping up and down and saying we want to install linux.
Question alway is if a geek has a Xbox is it a Xbox any more.
Please not the worst thing to call me is a geek. I am a person interested in computer and the use of hardware for the least cost who has to repair the boxs.
I don't know what the price of gas is where you live, but out here in sunny CA filling up an SUV tank will likely run you close to $60.
No, because my next car will be 1971 or earlier. Fuck emissions test and the DMV telling me what I can and cannot do to my engine. I'll keep it in tune so it isn't a smog pig, but I don't want to deal with the annoyance of the smog test.
Dude, I used to see vehicles like yours pulling too big trailers all the time when I used to deliver heavy equipment. I would pull over and let guys like you pass me for fear you might start fishtailing and take me out.
"Towing package" on a Cherokee means you can tow a boat or some lightweight trailer, not a combine or JD 310 backhoe behind your vehicle. The Cherokee was not designed to tow heavy gear, period. You are an accident waiting to happen.
Great, now I get all the mental enjoyment of Windows crashing with all the physical pain of my car crashing.
When Microsoft's embedded nonsense starts being adopted by the automotive industry, I will take public transit exclusively: Trains, planes, and subways are heavier than the Blue Cars of Death that will be swarming around me. I might even be able to commute without dying. Oh joy!
August 25, 2008
We are proud to announce that Microsoft Windshield Mobile Platform 2008 has gone gold today.
We have begun shipping to retailers across the United States.
A brief list of some of the great features behind the new Windshield Mobile Platform.
It come with IE 8.4.2.23456345234234A, build 330453 which offers for the first time, enhanced Spyware and adware security features.(Just imagine no more penis enlargement ads flashing across your HUD.)
Reboots are now possible without having to stop the engine.
Increased worm detection means less time on the road rather than along side of the road.
Privacy options available for a low monthly cost.
Fewer blue screen windshields.
Better hardware detection and integration.
System Requirements:
Comes standard with any new 2008 GM, Ford, Toyota or Honda car. Might require a CPU and Memory core updates in older models. Not all cars will be supported. Older software may not work. Microsoft makes no warranty or claim on the backwards compatibility of this operating system.
An SVGA or better HUD integrated windshield.
All for the low, low cost of $25.00 / month for licensing and DRM privelidges.
zosxavius photography
Car crashes you!
zosxavius photography
The "new and improved" BMW 750 series
luxury sport salon already uses MS
WinCE. It brings entirely new meaning
to the phrase "My system crashed."
Symmantec already has anti-virus software
in the works for this automobile. It will
be available soon at a BMW dealer near you.
that they never do this for aircraft!!!
Even if it was in a CS book, it is still an urban legend. The said event never happened.
Mr Welch (Jack Welch, presumably) was president of GE, not GM.
See the link:
http://www.snopes.com/humor/jokes/autos.htm
Like Hell it Will!
Blue Sedan Of Death.
When your electric windows are run by WinCE, nobody can hear you scream.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
...sneezing and suddenly having to clean the lens of my steering mouse while ripping down the Autostrada at 200km/h in my new GUI-enabled Ferrari.
"I'm clicking on the brake icon, but nothing's happening! What, exactly, does Print Screen mean in my current context?"
"[ring, ring... click] Er, Hi honey, can you remember the keyboard shortcut for the Dresden exit? Now, please?"
"Just hit Ctrl-Brake to stop."
etc ad nauseum
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
I'll walk
ender-iii
the system hides the pedal for your convenience.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
You can have both in one car.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
...before any missiles arrived. Is that close enough?
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Switch it for a Mandrake Move CD. (-:
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
The one without the Remote Driver Protocol daemon installed.
The version of BackOrifice for it will be called BackSeatDriver. Get to practice those dangerous looking stunt-driver actions without any personal risk (to you, anyway). Car thieves will be able to remotely crack their targets and have them drive themselves to the "midnight spares" workshop. Dark-alley hawkers will be offering new serialz for your out-of-warranty car rather than bulky spares or low-profit hubcaps.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
This is OLD NEWS!
Windows Automotive was announced in 2002, if not earlier. I first learned about it when I worked at Ford last year, and thought it was kind of new until a friend of mine showed me his Windows Automotive keychain he got a year before at a Microsoft recruiting booth at U of M.
The van is a "MasterAce Surf", 8 seats, it's diesel and 4WD, has removable skylights and uses very little fuel. Great for shopping, luggin bulk people around or gentle off-roading including parking anywhere.
:-).
The Peugeot 505 is just plain fun, albeit with nothing like the jaw-dropping fuel economy of a modern Pug. I've watched "sports" cars run over the roundabout or hit the kerb behind me more often than I can count after mistakenly assuming that where I could go in my old klunker, they could follow. (-:
The Pug is the closest to an electronically controlled (as in, transistor-assisted ignition) car I've owned. A friend in Mount barker got himself a new Mazda a few years ago, then when one of his friends drove the same-model car into a big puddle in a Perth underpass and killed an AUD$12000 car computer, he drove it back up to Perth the next day and traded it in.
Another fun car I once owned was Chrysler Centura 4l 6-cyl hemi with floor-shift. It was butt ugly and handled like a week-old trifle but had an elegant sufficiency of horsepower, thank you. Another was a Ford Transit van, no power or handling but you could stack stuff into it all day long without filling it up (I helped a girl move house with it and we got three wardrobes and a dining suite in one load), and you could bolt the sliding doors back on hot days (-: IOW, climate control locked on "yes"
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
...stick to ceilings, turn on a dime, carry three and a half tonnes of groceries and hardly ever crash or get stolen. it would also come in an enormous variety of themes (including the "init 3" theme without any body panels), be linkable together in trains of up to 1024 vehicles and include forklift, bucket and blade attachments. The in-dash TV would double as a street directory and would be able to scan nearby vehicles for threats and vulnerabilities.
And the bonnet emblem wouldn't be a silver lady.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
My God made everything ex nihilo, yours didn't make anything but trouble.
My God is boss of yours.
Any questions?
To all those who disagree: wait 'till your kids hit the workforce and see how well their drivel-packed minds serve them then. Even before that, you'll see them aping that drivel as they make your life hell because they have the right to.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
Jokes aside, this is a SERIOUS TIME to make SERIOUS MONEY !
In MS-Windoze alone, we have utilities ranging from File Defraq to Registry Tweaking. And then we have Anti-Virus and Anti-Spyware programs.
If all cars are to use MS-Windowze as the baseline OS, it would be a winfall for most of us here !
Instead of just offering specialized / customized chips to boost car performances, we can also offer "subscribe service" to "upgrade the car" once every 2 months or so - so car owners will get wheel-alignment as well as "OS re-booting service" in the same time.
How about those detectors we can produce to detect "internal OS flaws" ? Instead of X-1R super lubricant, we can offer Win-X-Perf detectors to carry out "realtime auto-tune" the car OS.
The possibilities are endless. What I'm offering here is just the tip of a very huge money making iceberg.
Muchas Gracias, Señor Edward Snowden !
like this topic is a challenge for jokes
talk about a damn setup...
Did you know you can be apathetic to apathy? Not that I give a shit...
For the tagline as much as for the duct tape. (-:
You thought that was funny? Now hear this.
Got time? Spend some of it coding or testing
If my new car with Windows Automotive get's a virus, is it covered under the lemon law?
I'm sure someone will write one to do fun things like make the GPS only give you directions to the closest Pizza place.
Seth
"Is that real poncho or a Sears poncho?" ~~FZ
Is one of the most famous company in the world for all that's related with Hi-Fi in vehicules. Not a M$ project !
Despite the media attention Microsoft has been getting lately regarding security (or lack thereof) concerns, most end users still don't understand what all the fuss is about, because let's face it - that's a problem for the computer techs to worry about.
The general public don't even understand who or what Microsoft is. They just click here to go to "mail", which is 99% of the time, Outlook Express, but they don't know that. It's just their mail. Then they click on the attachment and it opens in the word processor, which is of course Word, but again, they don't know that.
In fact, they don't know, by name, any of the software they use on their computer. They don't know which company made it, and neither do they care.
Sometimes they hear about these 'linux' people, and they regard them as akin to someone who builds a hotrod from scratch - it's certainly not something that they would be doing themselves.
Some of these people work for the auto industry. They use computers, but as an end-user, not as a technician or programmer. They have managers, who use the corporate email program, which is of course Outlook, but they don't know what it's called.
Some of the high ranking managers have PDAs that they use to check their email and show off with in board meetings. They run Windows CE, and once again, they have no idea of that fact.
At this point, does it surprise anyone that knowing what they do about the computer industy, that these companies choose to work with microsoft to get integrated computers installed in their cars ?
Microsoft has always targeted the CEO/CIO types the most strongly, because you only need to put the work in to convince a few of those types to use your products and you'll get thousands or more licenses sold. And guess what, it's those same people who are the ones deciding who to partner with for integrated car computers.
To log in, please turn and hold the ignition key, press radio preset #4, and pull the trunk lever, simultaneously.
(Why?)
This key combination is recognized only by Microsoft Windows Automotive. To ensure the security of your Automotive Password, Windows requires this key combination to be used before logging in.
If this crap gets used, it will be a management decision. I work at one of the big three. All of engineering is on board as not wanting to touch this crap. We make fun of Windows on the computers. We certainly don't want to have to deal with it on the hardware.
It's pretty easy, just send the license plate number as an SMS to the search service, and you get back the owner's name and home town. Then send these to the number search, and you get his GSM number. Now you are free to communicate...
At least this is how it works in Finland. Not that I would do anything like that of course, using cell phone while driving being prohibited and all...
Actually, the car and the computer could arrive at deadlock during a crash scenario, leaving you in limbo, but permanetly buckled in.
If they put windows in a car with no screen, then they can finally REALLY get rid of those blue screens of death.
or else!
Perhaps the insurance industry will take this viable opportunity to add surcharges to a policy on a vehicle running MS crap-ola; the risk being, of course, the severly increased chances of a 'crash' :-) -- even though it is said that the Win OS will not share the same network as the more critical auto functions (brakes, etc...). (Give it time, though!) There already is the tendency for Win OSes to demand more attention than reasonable; more, I can confidently say, than a cell phone demands; and look at the accident increases caused by those!
Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
good, if you are not windows literate then this will cut down on traffic.
Man, I would not be surprised if some smart-ass didn't come up with the equivalent of that.
PHB1 - Hey! Let's create more legspace.
PHB2 - I know! Let's hide the clutch & brakes
PHB1 - But what about in case of an emergency
PHB2 - Let's build a $20,000 automatic braking system.
you wouldn't want your car to crash in the middle of the street, won't you?
using windows for car systems is just making trouble
No. It will not.
At whatever cost it may take, I'll simply have to quit buying new cars if it comes down to it. And unlike most of the plastic populance, the ignorant masses, I actually refuse to give in to stupid crap like this.
And your driving and have an improper shutdown from the cause of cutoff of power then while starting up you'll have do do chkdsk and it finds inconsistencies in the drive and truncates an important file. So then you finally boot to your drive screen and you all of a sudden accellerate full throttle because the file it truncated took off an important section of the code asking the user "would you like to accelarate?" How about having a multibooted system integrated into the car. If it was me i'd use Linux more often. I'd be checking on my code or playing a game and have an accident.woo
--George