Best Buy Has Man Arrested for Using $2 Bills

An anonymous reader writes "Mike Bolesta of Baltimore thought he would protest Best Buy's not-so-great customer service and pay his bill with 57 $2 bills. For his trouble he got to spend some time in the county lock-up." From the article: "..Bolesta was contacted by the store, and was threated with police action if he did not pay the [installation] fee he was told before did not exist. As a sign of protest, Bolesta decided to pay using only $2 bills, which he has an abundance of because he asks his bank for them specifically. Unfortunately for him, the cashier did not seem to understand that the $2 bill is indeed legal US tender, since the bill itself is not often used. After rudely refusing to take the money, the cashier accepted the bills, only to mark them as though they were conterfeit."

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It happens a lot

[Greg Wright]

Truthfully, I would find it strange as well. I have not seen a $2 bill
in a long long time. Same thing with all those $1 coins. However,
people tend to accept strange coin amounts a lot easier then paper
money amounts.

It happens more then you might think. For a funny story about trying
to use a $2 bill at Taco Bell, check this out:

http://www.digiserve.com/eescape/closet/silly/2- at -Taco-Bell.html

However, I see it on the web attributed to at least 3 different
authors, so I doubt it really happened.

Re:It happens a lot

[Rightcoast]

Snopes' take on the Taco Bell $2 bill incident

http://www.snopes.com/humor/business/tacobell.htm

Re:It happens a lot

[man_of_mr_e]

It did happen

It was first published on the net by Captain Sarcastic who ran alt.captain.sarcastic. It was borrowed by others and attributed to anonymous and other sources. I knew Captain Sarcastic at the time (actually, had known him for years) and he was quite upset about it all.

I can't prove it happened, but Kurt Koller (AKA Captain Sarcastic) originally wrote it.

Re:It happens a lot

[cryogenix]

I saw some "new" ones the other day. Either they were new, or not circulated in a very long time. An older friend of the family gave one to each of my kids.

Re:It happens a lot

[mikael]

About the only place that I knew to give me Susan B. Anthony coins, was the Caltrain automatic ticket dispensers, which would return any change less that $10 in coins. None of the other vending machines (snacks, drinks) would accept them. Out of loyal duty, I saved up all the coins and used them to pay for the next month's ticket. After I had used this method for only one month, Caltrain decided to scrap the machines.

Re:It happens a lot

[Mikito]

A few years ago, the SBA dollar coins were used as tokens for Boston's T rail system. I don't know if that's still the case.

Re:It happens a lot

[zakezuke]

Truthfully, I would find it strange as well. I have not seen a $2 bill in a long long time. Same thing with all those $1 coins. However, people tend to accept strange coin amounts a lot easier then paper money amounts.

You tend to see the currency people saved up over the years at times such as these when the gas price doubles. At the local gas station someone filled up their truck with 60 Eisenhower Silver Dollars. Cash registers don't have a coin slot for dollar coins even though we've had dollar coins for decades. They should have them, but they don't. They are less desirable for stores than Suzie Bs or Sacagaweas. Needless to say they did the polite thing, set them aside, and asked people if they wanted their change in bills or Silver Dollars.

I kept them around long enough to see if any friends wanted them as I already had 20 of them. Not very rare or valuable, but still a cool thing to have, but eventually gave up and spent them. They got some odd looks, but I never had a problem with anyone taking it.

What I don't understand is in the past stores had books which listed pictures of legal tender. I know I got odd looks spending one and two Canadian dollar bills in Vancouver, but after looking in their book they decided it was legal tender if a tad dated. These days I imagine one could publish a nice PDF file and have it accessible on the register it self.

Re:It happens a lot

[DevNull Ogre]

We have a Pepsi machine and a Coke machine. The Pepsi machine accepts dollar coins. Occassionaly, I'll put a dollar bill in the Pepsi machine and before changing my mind and deciding to get a Coke product. Sometimes the Pepsi machine will give me a dollar coin instead of my dollar bill after I hit the coin return button. The Coke machine doesn't take the dollar coin, so I end up stuck with Pepsi.

A few weeks ago the Pepsi machine decides it can't accept quarters. I put in my dollar bill and then change my mind. This time I still wanted a Pepsi product - I just wanted to use up some loose coins instead of the bill. Instead of the dollar coin, it gives me quarters! So I ended up with a Coke product. Karma, baby.

Re:It happens a lot

[Kadin2048]

I know of several local car-washes (the automated ones, not the ones with the mouth-breathing high school students who brush off your fenders) which run on $1 coins.

There are several change machines where you put in bills and get coins (used to be Susan B.'s, now they're Golden Dollar coins), then you put three of them into the control consoles in the bay you want to use, to turn the water on. I assume the reason for this is so the car wash operator doesn't have to empty the coin boxes as often as they would if the machines used quarters. I do know of one car wash that does use quarters, and you have to stand there and load 12 into the machine before it turns on ... doesn't take more than one use of that to decide that the $1 coin machines aren't bad.

Also, I can't believe nobody's mentioned what has to be the biggest use of dollar coins around: casino slot machines.

Personally I've always had a soft spot for $1 coins. Back when the Golden Dollar ones came out I got a few rolls of them and used them at various places, but it looks like they didn't catch on and will eventually go the way of the Susan B. and $2 bill.

Re:It happens a lot

[Chaswell]

There are new ones and there are plenty going around Greenville, SC right now. There is a guy that eats at Aussie Bush Burger that only pays in $2 bills and tips in $2's. The guy is a trip.

Recently my son would not sleep for anything and so I went for a drive with him around 3am. Krispy Kreme was open and the lady at the drive through was so chatty for such a late hour. We chatted for a bit and my change included a $2 bill. I kept it on me for a couple weeks to remember there are nice people. Stupid, I know, but whatever.

Re:It happens a lot

[ramblin billy]

Try a google search and just take a look at the results sites.

billy - $3 bills...I'd pay a dollar for THAT

Re:It happens a lot

[Trepalium]

These days I imagine one could publish a nice PDF file and have it accessible on the register it self.

You could certainly try, but an annoying number of printers would just spit out a tiny bit of the page and the URL http://www.rulesforuse.org/.

Re:It happens a lot

[TykeClone]

Personally I've always had a soft spot for $1 coins. Back when the Golden Dollar ones came out I got a few rolls of them and used them at various places, but it looks like they didn't catch on and will eventually go the way of the Susan B. and $2 bill.

I like them too (heck, I like the old $1 coins before the Susan B's - those big old Eisenhower ones - with those coins, you knew you had something worth more than a quarter), but would you really want to use them in place of $1 bills?

If you look in your wallet, most of the bills in there (unless you've recently been to a nudie bar or an ATM or both) are 1's. Now imagine carting around that many coins. That's the problem with $1 coins.

Re:It happens a lot

[britneys 9th husband]

Also, I can't believe nobody's mentioned what has to be the biggest use of dollar coins around: casino slot machines.

Where??? All the dollar slot machines in Vegas use $1 casino chips, not dollar coins.

Re:It happens a lot

[SA Stevens]

If you REALLY want to have fun, you can buy 'uncut sheets' of $1, $2, $5, $10, $20 and $50 US currency from the Bureau of Engraving and Printing. They come in a 'grid' pattern, but you can then cut them into strips that roll up.

Buy an sheet of 32 $1 bills. Cut them into strips of 8. Bring the strips to the cash register with scissors and cut them off individually to give to the cashier. They ARE the same, official US currency.

It's something to do for fun, but there's a bit of a premium charged for the uncut sheets.

Re:It happens a lot

[cryogenix]

I guess they are still printed but not circulated much. I was in NY visiting relatives one time, and I had a store refuse to take an American Express travelers check. 16 year old girl... Said but we don't take checks! And I said this is different, it's like cash... She didn't get it. I went next door to another store told the story to a cashier who was older and who got a good laugh out of it and was kind enough to cash it for me.

Re:It happens a lot

[seebs]

Someone in alt.religion.kibology, I think, did an excellent humor post consisting of that post adjusted to be about a $3 bill.

Re:It happens a lot

[Fitascious]

I hadn't seen a $2 bill in a while either, until I got one as change at a Boston parking garage, its still in my wallet as I feel weird using it.

Re:It happens a lot

[mrdogi]

Funny... well humourous anyway story. I work at Target, sometimes in Electronics. A year or so ago, a kid came in to buy a video game, or some such. I ring him up, give him the total, and take his money. I took a look at it, and in it was a $2 bill. With RED ink for the serial number and the seal under the "TWO" on the right side of the face. I'm thinking COOL! Gotta be worth something. OK, for about 5 seconds I thought "What the heck?!?" After looking, and feeling the bill I decide it's legit. Mom looks at me like "Well, he wants to spend it, that's his decision.

So finish the transaction, then call a co-worker over to watch me exchange it for some of my own money. Turns out it IS worth a bit more than $2, but not much, for now. Being as it's a 1963 die, I figure it'll be worth something some day.

Re:It happens a lot

[Brandybuck]

People don't look at their money, but I do. So when I was a cashier in college I used to grab the rare stuff that passed my hands. (No, I didn't steal it, I bought it from the cash register!) Silver (pre 1965) coins and some buffalo nickels were common. Occasional liberty dimes would pass my way. I stopped taking wheat pennies unless they were steel.

Among my more notable finds were several silver and gold certificates (still redeemable if you go to the mint, iirc)... and one gold Krugerand passed off as a penny!

Re:It happens a lot

[Delta Vel]

I think the best part of that link is that at the end of the story, when he's saying how he should get a stack of them and maybe he'll get some more free food, he says, "If I got the right group of people, I could probably end up in jail."

Re:It happens a lot

[bs_02_06_02]

I've got two $2 bills, and I acquired them each in the past 3 months. One in an airport, and the other in a card. They're not that rare.

And who counterfeits $2.00 bills? Who has that kind of time? And contrary to what the story says, counterfeit bills often have the SAME serial number... not consecutive numbers.

The big issue here is the callous disregard for this customer by Best Buy. They blatantly went back on their word, and they should ultimately pay for their mistake.

Re:It happens a lot

[DavidTC]

Some idiot filled their tank with Eisenhower Silver Dollars? And you spent them?

They aren't (just) valuable as coins, they're valuable as silver. They have an ounce of silver in them, which is like five dollars worth.

Re:It happens a lot

[zakezuke]

Some idiot filled their tank with Eisenhower Silver Dollars? And you spent them?

See what the US Mint says about the subject.

The Eisenhower silver dollars (1971-1978) did come in a 40% silver version (about over their value in silver), and a copper nickel clad version. Both are 24 grams or so, slightly under an ounce. Needless to say the ones I got were worth about a buck, and I have 20 of them. My local coin shop circulated ones for $1.00. Spending one was NOT a big deal.

Re:It happens a lot

[DavidTC]

Oh, I had no idea they had a copper nickel version. Nevermind.

The Eisenhower silver dollar I have says '1 ounce silver' on it. It's worth about 20 dollars as a collectable, and about 5 dollars if I were just to melt it down.

Re:It happens a lot

[ddrichardson]

It interests me that someone could have enough intelligence to be suspicious but lack the intelligence to realise that faking an unusual denomination would arouse suspition anyway. This kind of ignorance happens in England a lot when using Scottish notes, particularly the £20 and the stock answer from the cashier when giving the note the once over is "sorry £20 notes are often faked". I checked the bank and apparently at one time there was a large number of faked £20's - however they were Bank of England! Guess it shows a little knowledge is a dangerous thing...

Re:It happens a lot

[Myopic]

yeah that's a great idea! maybe the PDF could be ultra-high resolution, too, at 100% real size. maybe the Feds could post it online so we could all make sure our money is real?

Re:It happens a lot

[mktvr]

Cash registers don't have a coin slot for dollar coins even though we've had dollar coins for decades. They should have them, but they don't.

Speak for your own registers... the cash register I work at has an extra coin slot past the quarters for the .50 and the $1 coins (they're not being given back as change, and there's never enough to make separating them a nuisance, so there's no problem mixing them).

Re:It happens a lot

[Kadin2048]

Oh I agree. I have a soft spot for them, but that doesn't mean that I want to replace $1 bills with them tomorrow. (If you did do that, I think you'd have to replace the $1 bill with the $2 instead, otherwise there wouldn't be a low denomination bill with which to make change.)
Not only for the reasons you mentioned, but also because I think you'd see a lot more items immediately go up from $0.50 - $0.75 to $1.00 overnight. Canned sodas for instance, are still generally less than a buck, but if the dollar became mentally devalued to coin status, I'm not sure they'd stay that way.

Frankly it's all an academic argument, we'll probably have the same selection of physical money right up until it becomes replaced in wide circulation by electronic transfers, as it seems to have been in some other countries. For example, I spent three weeks in Iceland and never once actually saw a single piece of Icelandic currency--everything was being done with plastic. Although the U.S. has a lot more 'mindshare mass' and will change slowly, I think a decline (although never an elimination) of physical currency is inevitable.

Re:It happens a lot

[TykeClone]

I don't think that you'll ever see cash go away. I think that the government would like to do away with it (because of how it can be used in the underground economy), but there is always a place for untraceable transactions - and you don't get that with electronic transfers or plastic.

Re:It happens a lot

[zakezuke]

Speak for your own registers... the cash register I work at has an extra coin slot past the quarters for the .50 and the $1 coins (they're not being given back as change, and there's never enough to make separating them a nuisance, so there's no problem mixing them).

Well, I'm going by what the cashier says on this. To me to looks like many who complain there is no place for the coins have a place but it's being used for coin rolls, paper clips, and a wet sponge for the fingers.

Re:It happens a lot

[Kadin2048]

Yes. Which is why I qualified that statement with "although never an elimination" of paper / physical currency.

There's always a place for physical money, and not just for underground purposes, but because it's direct, immediate, and requires no middleman (e.g. PayPal) who can put restrictions on the sale.

However, for most day-to-day transactions, I think we will see a further decline in the role physical currency plays in our lives. (Unless you're a drug dealer, in which I suppose you'll be mostly unaffected.) But an increasing number of people are being paid directly into their checking accounts, and then drawing that money out with debit cards, without ever having had it as cash. I think this trend will increase.
One of the last holdouts of cash in my area was McDonalds restaurants. Like them or hate them, they were a big enough force that they could keep people going to the ATM. They just started accepting various credit and debit cards, and Wendy's and Burger King have followed suit. Dunkin Donuts has already taken them for a while. This is significant because if you think of the things that people buy in an average day or week, fast food is probably one of the last items that you couldn't use a credit card for. Groceries, most entertainment, gasoline, etc all are payable electronically.

So my point was cash is never going to go away completely (and how can it? If the government were to stop printing paper money you could always use gold, or barter) but that it's role in an average, upstanding citizen's life probably is on the downswing. I'm sure there are case-by-case exceptions to this, but I'm speaking in general terms here.

Re:It happens a lot

[alixnet]

I followed the link for the Taco story and it has already been updated with this story here.

Re:It happens a lot

[TykeClone]

Sorry - just being a twerp.

Electronic transactions are growing at an astounding rate (credit/debit card, ACH, that kind of thing). As a matter of fact, electronic transactions (or maybe just debit card transactions - I don't remember off the top of my head right now) outpaced paper checks last year for the first time ever.

Re:It happens a lot

[mktvr]

Oh, I don't doubt that there are deficient registers out there... our coin rolls and miscellaneous nonsense go in the empty bill slots though, of which we actually have two.

the cashier may have been stupid...

[Prophetic_Truth]

the cashier may have been stupid, but what cop would lock you up for using $2 bills? Shouldn't a government employee know of such dominations? I was under the impression cops need evidence before arresting you.

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[Anonymous Coward]

I was under the impression cops need evidence before arresting you.

No. They only to believe they have probable cause. Which part of this magical experiment called freedom in American. And with one Judge's pen, it went poof!

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[Anonymous Coward]

Stupid cops? /is there any other kind...

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[Cromac]

Of course, and you obviously haven't read it or understood it in the least to think it applies here in any way.

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[fsh]

Shouldn't a government employee know of such dominations?

I don't care what they do on their own time, but in public?

Think of the children....

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[Planesdragon]

I was under the impression cops need evidence before arresting you.

No, they need to charge you with something. And if they do it without reasonable procedure and belief, you can often sue the individual police offficer for harassment (and, in some cases, even apply a claim against the government he or she works for.)

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[Dracos]

I was under the impression cops need evidence before arresting you.

Oh, you obviously missed the DMCA and the Patriot Act. The latter was passed by Congress without a single Senator or Representative having read it.

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[MrNonchalant]

Pfft. No. Haven't you been reading the papers? They're full of protesters being arrested (but then let go after a day because they can't be legally charged with anything) and cities instituting youth curfews (as a "tool for law enforcement to arrest 'suspicious' looking youngsters"). We're moving to a state whereby they can (and do) harress or arrest you for anything they feel like.

I'd vote for any party that promised to reverse this, but none of them that have a chance of winning care (read Democrat and Republican).

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[CornerScribe]

Shouldn't a government employee know of such dominations?

I'm not sure his sex life has much to do with this.

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[Anonymous Coward]

Senators can read?

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[JVert]

Please tell me when you find someone to vote for so I can vote against them. I'm sick of my fucking license plate being stolen for the tags.

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[Punboy]

They can hold you in custody for up to 48 hours (or is it 72?) before formally charging you (which they need evidence for). Unless of course you're accused of a terrorist act, in which case you can be held indefinitely wihtout being charged. Seriously.

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[cloudmaster]

Wait, who *wrote* the Patriot Act? Was it just the idle ramblings of a congressional janitor?

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[HungWeiLo]

Which bastard? This bastard.

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[NanoGator]

"Shouldn't a government employee know of such dominations?"

I can forgive the cop. It's the judge that should seriously know better.

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[NitsujTPU]

At the University where I was an undergraduate, I was harassed by the police.

One time, a number of police (I forget how many, at least 2, but I think 4) showed up to my party, walked into my back yard (not visible from the street, boxed in from all 4 sides, accessible only by 2 alleys. The only way they could see it was by entering my property. They proceeded onto my property, then told me I was trespassing on the property of the house next door. Please note that, the door from my house entered onto the yard, and the door from the house next door, did not. Interestingly, I was underage at the time, and they didn't even think of checking that.

Another time, I called the (911 actually, and was patched to the police). I had been at a party. About 10 guys came in and beat the tar out of some kid. He was coughing up blood and had broken several teeth. His nose was broken. He had a black eye and looked like he had a couple cracked ribs. I told them what had happened, and they asked me what they were supposed to do about it. I told them that I had a kid who looked like he was dying, and needed to be rushed to the hospital. The delerious kid had wandered out into the street, I couldn't find him. I pleaded with the police to come help me find him. They refused. Some friends found the kid and brought him to the hospital.

One time police asked me to help them steal satellite service. I refused. They proceeded to a party held by friends of mine, and started arresting underaged drinkers.

We all suspected the police of accepting payoffs from local bars, to overlook criminal activities.

One time a kid picked a fight with me. I knocked the guy down, but that was about the stretch of it. A police officer put me in his car to "escort me home." I said something nasty about the situation. He then proceeded to arrest me. During the arrest he told me that my picture in my ID didn't look like me. I went to the local lockup as John Doe, and a violent offender. When I had my day in court, everything was dismissed because there was no evidence against me. Incidentally, the University lawyer refused to represent me in the case because she was related to one of the people involved. Nothing ever happened to the officer who did this to me.

I received a death threat. An officer came out, said it sounded like a prank. I asked to have my calls logged. He said he wouldn't do it. I stayed on my friend's couch for a few weeks.

I knew one honest officer on that police force. He was fired.

The girl I was dating had the brake lines to her car cut. She took it to a mechanic, who said that it had obviously been sabotaged in a manner that was intended to kill the driver. The lines had been scored and tied shut with a shirt.

I'm not saying that all police are bad, but some are.

So, what did I do wrong in all of this? I drank underage a few times. That's about it. I was the president of Lutheran Student Movement, and did several hundred hours of community service of my own volition. I was an A student, graduated cum laude, and now am a graduate student at an extremely reputable university. I trace most of my problems with the police back to the only night I was ever arrested. According to rumor, the girl the guy who picked a fight with me was with was also the sister of a local drug dealer.

The only thing I worry about is people thinking the wrong thing of me. I like my life now. I don't want people to think of me as a criminal because of my many brushes with this P.D. I thought that many of my professors as an undergrad were great, and they seemed to think the same of me. I had no problems finding recommendations for grad school.

I thought I would share. Police departments need to be transparent to the citizens, and responsible for the things that they do. We can't, as a country, go on like this. Police like those in the town of my undergraduate institution give all police a bad name.

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[cowens]

The cops didn't have an issue with the two dollar bill, they had an issue with the fact that a disgruntled customer tried to pay a debt with 57 sequentialy numbered two dollars bills and one of the had an ink smudge. Take those bold pieces and put them together and you start to see why the cops reacted the way they did. Should they have brought up 9/11? No. Should they have taken him back to the station to investigate? Yes. Should they have put him in hand cuffs? Depends, how much of an ass he was being. We know he went in with the intent of being an ass (that was why he was paying with two dollar bills). How loud and obnoxious was he being? That isn't stated in the article.

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[sketerpot]

Lobbyists often write legislation.

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[Morlark]

Okay, so maybe it doesn't apply in this situation, but I'd say it's a clear indication, as is TFA, of how politics in the US has shot way over to the right wing. And that can't be a good thing.

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[H4d0k3n]

Linx kthx.

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[Buran]

He was only being an ass because the store attempted to rip him off. I'd have been an ass too if someone had magically invented fees (with no contract agreeing to them) after I'd settled the account and left.

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[yellowjacket03]

I believe that may be an issue of jurisidiction. In Kansas City, MO, I believe you must be arraigned no later than 24 hours after your arrest.

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[soft_guy]

Are you kidding? Cops don't even need evidence before shooting you to death.

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[cowens]

Reread my comment. It wasn't the two dollar bills. It wasn't the fact that they were sequentially numbered. It wasn't the fact the he was disgruntled. It wasn't the fact that one of the bills was smudged. It was the combination of all of these facts.

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[cowens]

My point was that he was pissed. Pissed enough to fuck with some sales droid who had nothing to do with his problem. What other bad choices was he making that night? Who knows, maybe the cops overreacted, but I get the feeling reading the article that he was being an ass in a way that made the cops feel safer with him restrained.

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

I get the feeling reading the article that he was being an ass in a way that made the cops feel safer with him restrained.

And I get the feeling from reading the article that the cashier & manager made up the bit about smudged ink afterwards to try to cover their asses. After all, the bills did pass the iodine pen test.

The printed account doesn't say either way on either point, so your guess is as good as mine.

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[dangitman]

Being disgruntled is an arrestable offense now? How can it be because of a "combination" of the facts? The only thing that is remotely suspicious is the smudging. Since neither being disgruntled, sequential bills, or $2 bills are suspicious - then the idea that it was a combination of facts is absurd.

Are coincidences illegal? If none of the facts are suspicious in their own right - then what magically makes them suspicious in combination?

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[that _evil _gleek]

So he should have asked the cashier at the bank to shuffle?

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[mrchaotica]

but none of them that have a chance of winning care (read Democrat and Republican).

I'm sorry, the word "them" implies multiple entities, but you only mentioned one party.

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[xander2032]

I don't get it? What's wrong with sequentially numbered bills? I've gotten sequentially numbered 20's before out of the ATM. So that means if I used all of them to buy something that they should have called the police because it was suspicious? And smudges happen. I've had smuged bills before. And if I know that, why doesn't someone who handles money for a living know that??

I think this all comes down to the casher being a complete idiot and the cops being not much smarter than that!

Re:the cashier may have been stupid...

[Buran]

And it sounds to me like this guy didn't do anything aggressive or anything. He just wanted to pay their bullshit fee and go home. When they touched and detained him, they falsely imprisoned him. They should not have done that.

The Two Dollar Man

[Anonymous Coward]

As a sign of protest, Bolesta decided to pay using only $2 bills

Here is a link that doesn't require registration.

Man what a rebel. Two dollar bills, can you believe it!

I find this whole story hard to swallow, I worked at a grocery store all through high-school and I knew this guy who would pay in $2 bills all the time, I can't say it really bothered me other then there isn't a place in the till to put them.

I find it hard to believe that someone has NEVER seen a $2 bill. It's not like they are hard to come across. Surely there must have been another reason for him being arrested...

Re:The Two Dollar Man

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm not surprised in the least bit.

The location that the incident occurred at is down the street from work, so I know first hand that their customer service isn't first tier. I've had a bad service experience there, and refuse to buy anything from that location any more. A few of my co-workers seem to feel the same about the store. I have never had much of a problem with any of the other locations around the area, but that one seems to have an overly incompetent and rude staff.

Re:The Two Dollar Man

[Evil Butters]

For those of you who watch Jay Leno and the "Jay Walking" portion, you would probably be very surprised by just how much the general public at large doesn't know. I would assume the show probably edits the segment to the best/dumbest people, but I still believe there is a lot of truth (as oppsoed to being completely scripted) in just how dumb the average person really is. Now, ask them something about Britney Spears or some new reality TV show, and I am sure they would be able to talk you to death. Ask them about the $2 bill and watch the look of puzzlement on their face. Very sad...

Re:The Two Dollar Man

[/dev/trash]

There was. He had 'forgotten' to pay for installation of the radio he had bought the day before.

Re:The Two Dollar Man

[atari2600]

Only in America - Go ahead and mod me troll but if users of legal tender do not know which tender is legal and which is not, then you have a larger problem on your hands.

Re:The Two Dollar Man

[HexRei]

so, did you miss the part of the story where he came in to PAY THAT INSTALLATION FEE and they accused him of using counterfeit cash?
You can't have someone arrested for not paying a fee that you refuse to take payment for. The man was arrested over the counterfeit cash suspicion, which turned out to be groundless.

Re:The Two Dollar Man

[Golias]

A simple experiment you can try at home:

Choose 20 people you know. Don't just choose randomly, but select 20 people who you consider to be relatively smart and aware. Ask them the following question:

Who's face is on the $10 bill?

If you are very, very lucky, one out of those 20 will know. They might slowly itemize all the others while they are thinking about it... "let's see... Jackson's on the 20, Lincoln's on the five..." as a way to demonstrate they are not a total moron, but in the end, almost none of them will be able to answer this amazingly simple question about a denomination of currency which they probably look directly at several times a week.

In fact, many of you reading this post are already probably straining your memory to conjure up the image and the name.

There's no shame in it. People focus their attention on details based on a desire to get through life with maximum efficiency, not maximum accuracy. You probably never felt it was all that important to remember who's on the ten.

(To relieve your stress, just in case you don't have one in your wallet at the moment, it's Alexander Hamilton.)

Re:The Two Dollar Man

[zuzulo]

Ok, so i knew immediately who was on the $10 bill. Then i asked 5 of my friends, and they all knew who was on the $10 bill.

Now i am extremely stressed, because either my friends are freaks or your friends are morons - neither of which are particularily appetizing possibilities.

I also find myself unsettled by your assertion that most folks attempt to get through life with maximum efficiency, because if this is true most folks seem to be falling *far* short of this goal.

Now I must insist you somehow relieve this stress to which you have subjected me because it is interfering with my heartfelt desire to get through life with maximum efficiency *and* accuracy ... ;-)

Re:The Two Dollar Man

[Morlark]

I don't. There are plenty of places in the world that aren't actually part of the US, so $2 bills are kinda rare there.

Re:The Two Dollar Man

[Daemonik]

He had 'forgotten' to pay for installation of the radio he had bought the day before.

He hadn't 'forgotten' anything. The sales clerk at Best Buy had told him that the installation was free because they had sold him the wrong stereo. He received a call later telling him to pay the fee or go to jail.

A stellar example of Best Buy's customer service in action.

Re:The Two Dollar Man

[Morlark]

Did you also miss the part of the story where he'd 'forgotten' to pay for the installation, because they told him that there was no installation fee.

Re:The Two Dollar Man

[jp10558]

That's true. I have no idea who's face is on what bill aside from the $1 bill due to where's george.com.

However, not knowing details of a bill denomination, and not knowing of the *existance* of a denomination are two different things. However, even in that case I may not know of all the existing denominations, but I'm not working with cash all day long. It would seem to me that knowing what is legal tender would be part of the training for cashiers, and moreso for managers.

I also think that while the Police probably did follow procedure in detaining the person, I can't see any reasonable justification for cuffing a non-violent person, and then putting leg irons on them, and then (IIRC, read the article when it was on FARK yesterday) taking him out of the store to the jail and cuffing him to a pole there.

I mean, what would lead an officer to cuff a nonviolent person who might *possibly* be a counterfitter like a mass murderer? What ever happened to asking a citizen to please come with the police. I seriously doubt this man would have resisted, or fought with the police. I mean, he *waited in the store* for the cops to arrive!

Re:The Two Dollar Man

[/dev/trash]

He was a trouble maker. Off to the gallows with him

Re:The Two Dollar Man

[bs_02_06_02]

Grocery store and Best Buy are two different types of stores. A bag of groceries is $15 to $20, and up until recently, grocery stores only took checks or cash.

Best Buy took cash, but how many items are cheap enough to require the use of a $2.00 bill? Not many. Yet a grocery store might see them ten times a week.

Best Buy handled this very poorly. They treated the customer like dirt. They have uneducated sales staff that don't know the truth, then make promises that they can't keep, or have no intention of keeping, and then when someone is angry, they call the police and have them arrested for using $2 bills. And when Best Buy gets bad press, they blaim the customer!

It's clear that with the recent changes at Best Buy that they're doing everything they can to drive away various segments of their customer base. Their attempt to drive away the "bad" customers is more successful at driving away "bad" and "good" customers. They clearly don't deserve my business.

Re:The Two Dollar Man

[HexRei]

gallows are too good for him. I say we cut off his arms and legs and slowly lower him into a tank full of leeches. and pirahnas. with rocket launchers strapped to their heads.

Re:The Two Dollar Man

[cstacy]

I am another weirdo who likes to use $2 bills. Some cashiers have seen them, some haven't, but I've never had any actually refused. Sometimes you get a strange look for a moment. I have had Sacagawea coins refused, though (because they really didn't think they were money, not because they were inconvenient).

Re:The Two Dollar Man

[cstacy]

I should add that I have also had a terrible customer service experience at Best Buy, although not related to any amusing money. In response to a complaint about returning a VCR that was DOA, in which I was entirely polite and calm, a young punk clerk lost his mind and actually threatened me with physical violence. Unfortunately, he backed off when I quietly informed him that I didn't think he'd enjoy that experience. I guess he had mistaken us for a bunch of defenseless old people (late 40s to 60s) who could be bullyed and intimidated. His manager was not the least bit apologetic.

We used to buy lots of electronics and appliances there, but of course we don't shop at any Best Buy any more. Since that incident a couple of years ago, I've heard several other people spontaneosly relate very similar stories about this very same store, located in Watertown, Mass. This seems consistent with the overall poor customer service stories about Best Buy that you hear on the net.

Shouldn't a manager have intervened?

[LivinFree]

What kind of fool would allow that to happen? Is this just another excuse to dislike a major corporation because they obviously hired a moron?

Re:Shouldn't a manager have intervened?

[blanks]

This wouldn't have happened from 1 single moron. It would have required 1 moron, 1 managment moron (I belive managers are the only people at most places like this allowed to call the cops) and at least 1 or more police officers, and it only got taken care of once the secret service was called in.

Its not like a single cashier held this person here, and arrested them, many people were involved in this fuck up.

Re:Shouldn't a manager have intervened?

[caluml]

because they obviously hired a moron

I think you meant "moran".

Re:Shouldn't a manager have intervened?

[Motherfucking Shit]

Is this just another excuse to dislike a major corporation because they obviously hired a moron?

I presume you aren't aware that Best Buy has had legitimate customers arrested in the past. I haven't set foot in a Best Buy since that story broke two and a half years ago, and this latest gaffe isn't doing much to convince me that I should ever go back.

Re:Shouldn't a manager have intervened?

[LivinFree]

I understand - I personally don't like their idea of staffing (hire a minimum of cheap fools; "Maybe if we stop answering, the customer will stop asking"), but I can't think of a single chain that doesn't have their fair share of problems. Have you ever asked for help at a Fry's electronics? Sweet Jesus, good luck.

I guess my point is that I see a lot of bashing going on because of a company's success. The bigger the company, the more the bashing. Best Buy should punish the cashier, and severly punish the manager of the store in this story, IMO, but does this really reflect their corporate policy? Have they colluded with crooked cops in back-road cash-only deals? Is there a Minister of Fucking With People That Pay With Non-Popular Currency? Or do they just have quality control issues?

Should we boycot Ralphs/Kroeger/Albertsons/etc due to their heavy-handed union practices? Should we boycott Walmart for their quality issues and hiring practices? Where's left to go when you decide that anyone's bad experience is enough to warrant abstinence from patronage?

Re:Shouldn't a manager have intervened?

[PyroMosh]

Local mom and pops. Until you have a single bad experience there, then you boycot them too. Or until they go out of business. Then you just don't buy anything any more.

Disgusting

[xstonedogx]

For Baltimore County police, said spokesman Bill Toohey, "It's a sign that we're all a little nervous in the post-9/11 world."

Yeah, potentially counterfeit (as judged by a Best Buy employee!) $2 bills are top on my priority list after 9/11. It's so I can't even sleep at night. Thank god we've got people like "spokesman" Bill Toohey protecting us. I don't know what's scarier: That he'd say something like that, or that there's probably a couple hundred million Americans who would nod their heads in "understanding".

This story has everything: Evil Best Buy. Stupid and ignorant employees with a bizarre sense of power and no sense of customer service. Questionable law enforcement policies. Idiot using 9/11 as the ultimate cop-out.

The only problem with the story is that this time the Feds came in and the situation got better.

Mr. Mike Bolesta, please do not rest until everyone responsible for this debacle is severely reprimanded, fined, or has their employment terminated. They are your oppressors. Rise up against them.

Re:Disgusting

[nametaken]

I don't know what's scarier: That he'd say something like that, or that there's probably a couple hundred million Americans who would nod their heads in "understanding".

I say this as someone who could sometimes be considered an apologist for typical post 9/11 paranoia:

This makes me want to puke.

I have a certain amount of tolerance for tightened security, sometimes even at the expense of some personal freedom (I know thats not a popular opinion here). But this... I want to punch this man in the face for grasping at a ready excuse for what was clearly a terrible screw-up.

Re:Disgusting

[incom]

Exactly. It's not 'a little nervous...9/11 blah blah' , it's 'a little totalitarian given the excuses afforded by government backed panic in a post 9/11 world'. Got a neighbor pissing you off? Well in a post 9/11 world you might think of ways to get the authorities to hassle them. Some 'different' people offensive to you? They must be anti-american terrorists! Honestly, I don't know if Fahrenheit 451 or 1984 is the most likely direction the country is headed in, but it's definately got aspects of both setting down roots.

Re:Disgusting

[iminplaya]

I don't know what's scarier: That he'd say something like that, or that there's probably a couple hundred million Americans who would nod their heads in "understanding".

I'll make it easy for you. It's the latter...by far. A goon shooting off his mouth is mostly harmless. One person is easy to deal with. His follwers are quite a different story. I don't care about Bush and his buddies. It's the majority that voted for him and re-elected him that are dangerous. The gov't can't take away your freedoms if the voters don't approve. The majority affirmed their approval of the Patriot Act, TSA, etc. in the last election. That is indeed scary. And remember all those students who think that the 1st Amendment goes too far in protecting one's freedom are going to able able to vote soon. I'll bet a repeal is already in the works, just waiting for them.

Re:Disgusting

[dankow]

For Baltimore County police, said spokesman Bill Toohey, "It's a sign that we're all a little nervous in the post-9/11 world."

Slashdotters, take note. Jon Katz now lives in Baltimore and uses the alias "Bill Toohey". What a lame alias; sounds fake anyway.

Re:Disgusting

[Artifakt]

What makes you think the employee did this out of innocent stupidity and ignorance, rather than malice? The victim was creating an annoying situation for him. Did he really not understand what 2$ bills were? Did he really think that sequential serial numbers were a sign of possible counterfeits? Or did he knowingly attempt an act of malicious prosecution (although it might better be called a conspiracy civil rights violation at the federal level)? From the original article, there's certainly enough evidence for that for a grand jury to remand to trial.
Reprimanded? Fined? Employment terminated? How about imprisoned? I wouldn't wish the pound-me-in-the-ass part even on them, even though it looks like they did on Mr. Bolesta, but if there's any malicious intent on a single employee's part, everything short of that is appropriate.
As you put it, They are your oppressors.. As I would put it, there are times Godwin's law is a damned nuisance.

Re:Disgusting

[Karma Farmer]

I don't know what's scarier: That he'd say something like that, or that there's probably a couple hundred million Americans who would nod their heads in "understanding".

Every single person in America, including the person who said it, knows that he is spouting a line of complete and utter bullshit.

He just has to say something, and he got sick of always saying, "we take these concerns very seriously."

9/11? WTF?

[Cutriss]

For Baltimore County police, said spokesman Bill Toohey, "It's a sign that we're all a little nervous in the post-9/11 world."

WTF DOES THAT HAVE TO DO WITH ANYTHING???

I had better not find myself jaywalking next time I go to Otakon, or else I might get shot on sight. You know how those terrorists are always committing minor felonies and misdemeanors...

Re:9/11? WTF?

[Rightcoast]

::Firmly tougue in cheek::

Maybe he installed the radio to listen to terrorist broadcasts.
Maybe he was laundering money for the terrorists.
Maybe he was just distracting the area law enforcement so that a greater scheme could be employed without hinderence.
You just never know, and everyone is a suspect.
Remember, If you spend your two dollar bills, Al-Queda wins.

::Removes tongue from cheek::
Laughable, if it wasn't the mindset of the person who spoke it.

Re:9/11? WTF?

[KarmaMB84]

Possession of perfectly legal two dollar bills is a sure sign you also possess a bomb vest!

Re:9/11? WTF?

[MikeXpop]

In the post-9/11 world, you can blame your stupidity on living in the post-9/11 world.

Re:9/11? WTF?

[t_allardyce]

Jesus Christ whats wrong with you? don't you have any sense of patriotism? in this day and age we have to give up a few freedoms like the use of $2 bills if that means America land of the free(tm) stays safe from terror.

Re:9/11? WTF?

[imsabbel]

You know, its the new september that never ended...

Would be a good excuse.
"sorry im late for the examn, but in this post 9/11 world, nobody can be sure to arrive in time"
"sorry i could not finish the project, in this post 9/11 world i needed to check for terrorists which cost too much time..."
hm
seems only to work for state authorities.

Re:9/11? WTF?

[FleaPlus]

I had better not find myself jaywalking next time I go to Otakon, or else I might get shot on sight.

Hah! Recent studies show that Rikku outfits and Con badges are clear indicators of terrorist activity.

Re:9/11? WTF?

[_Sprocket_]

Thanks. You just started a new meme. It may even overcome the "In Soviet Russia..." meme.

Re:9/11? WTF?

[urlgrey]

Agreed. 100%. Why, oh why, is every bad decision blamed on that? Every lapse of judgement... every inclination someone has to do something a certain way that ends up being wrong... it's like a default response now.[sigh]

Whatever happened to: "Ya know what? We really screwed up, and man are we sorry." C'mon folks. Get a grip.

Re:9/11? WTF?

[i_want_you_to_throw_]

Osama bought all of the terrorists tickets with $2.00 bills.

Re:9/11? WTF?

[MikeXpop]

On Slashdot, you can blame my meme on Slashdot.

Re:9/11? WTF?

[arodland]

I know it's one of those nasty, confusing ones, but the word you were looking for there is "hindrance".

Re:9/11? WTF?

[robathome]

Holy hell - they better not check out that enclave of Arab terrorist activity - Monticello, home of Thomas Jefferson, our third president. They give all their change under $10 for visitor's fees in $2 bills (which are peeled off a stack of fresh, consecutively numbered notes), because it's got Jefferson's portrait on the front, dontcha know.

And to think, it's in the state right next door to Maryland, and only a couple hours from our nation's capital! Raise the terror rainbow to red! We must mount a counterinsurgency force! To arms! To arms!

Re:9/11? WTF?

[RdsArts]

You mean in a post-9/11 world, the post-9/11 meme will overtake "in Soviet Russia" meme?

... Dear lord, what have we done....

Quick, everyone overuse it now so it goes away like the Korea one. Start calling it "old meme." This is not a drill, people.

Re:9/11? WTF?

[aftk2]

Bill G.: Where is Longhorn?!
Developer: Sorry, but in this post 9/11 world, WinFS and Avalon just don't seem like that high a priority.

Re:9/11? WTF?

[barzok]

Remember kids, if you don't bring 9/11 into the discussion, no matter how irrelevant..the terrorists have won.

Re:9/11? WTF?

[ZeeExSixAre]

I had better not find myself jaywalking next time I go to Otakon, or else I might get shot on sight.

That's not funny. I've been arrested for running a red light... on my bicycle. I'm not kidding. Now I worry about crossing streets, driving cars, and even leaving the "security" of my own home. Why is it that I'm now afraid of the police forces that were assigned to protect the people in the first place???

Re:9/11? WTF?

[ky11x]

I'm in awe. I've just witnessed the birth of a new repeatable joke on /.

Re:9/11? WTF?

[Mal-2]

In post-9/11 Soviet Russia, the world blames its stupidity on YOU.
Not that this is new.

Mal-2

Re:9/11? WTF?

[mrchaotica]

In Korea, only old people start calling it an "old meme!"

Re:9/11? WTF?

[EngMedic]

and in soviet russia, meme ages you!

Re:9/11? WTF?

[softspokenrevolution]

In Soviet Russia meme starts you.

Re:9/11? WTF?

[corsican]

Wouldn't that mean it's illegal for other vehicles to pass me IN THE SAME LANE?

Yes, it would. And as a cyclist you have to have properly placed reflectors and/or lights as well (in most states). Some states also require a licence plate or sticker. What I don't understand is the cyclists who think they are pedestrians, riding in the gutter towards oncoming traffic.

It finally happened

[Illserve]

Americans got too stupid to accept our own currency.

What's next?

Re:It finally happened

[fm6]

Not "finally". Americans have been ignorant for a long time. You know why one particular state issues license plates that say "USA" on them? Because before they did that, their residents couldn't drive in other states without being pulled over and asked for their passports!

Re:It finally happened

[ari_j]

Well, it's not necessarily stupid per se, but there will hopefully be a few lawsuits over this bullshit. False arrest, defamation, etc. And I think Best Buy should be charged criminally with refusing to accept legal US currency, if that's a law anywhere on the books.

Re:It finally happened

[The Amazing Fish Boy]

Americans got too stupid to accept our own currecny.

Stupid and (more importantly) paranoid are a bad combination. (Article mentions "post-9/11 world...", for example.)

Re:It finally happened

[marbike]

but there will hopefully be a few lawsuits over this bullshit.

Come on. At most this guy deserves a refund for them charging for a service they had said they were going to do free of charge.

He has a right to lodge a complaint against the police for a bad arrest, but does he really deserve some huge settlement for it? If he did win a lawsuit against the department it would just effect the taxpayers of that area. Ever wonder why thing cost so much these days? It is because consumers have to bear the weight of these constant lawsuits.

I swear, the American facination for Free Money by way of suing someone disgusts me. That is the thing that most makes me embarrased about being an American. Everyone wants to make a quick buck for being wronged, but all that really happens is that the companies being sued pass on the expense to their consumers.

Re:It finally happened

[shawb]

I think any store can refuse service to anyone, as long as it isn't for a reason covered by civil rights laws (EG Religion, Race, Gender, Age (With Limitations) Disabilities (where reasonable) and maybe a couple others that I can't think of. I think suspicion of using counterfeit tender is good enough reason to refuse service, just that they were ignorant of the fact that $2 bills are legal tender. I am sure that you would be refused service if you tried to buy a new car with pennies, even if it came out to be the correct amount.

Interestingly enough, the right of refusal actually makes the store more liable in many circumstances. If a cashier accepts a fake bill, then it in some ways becomes that store's liability. If a bartender serves someone who is obviously intoxicated, then that bartender can be liable to some degree if the drunk person drives home and gets into an accident or otherwise comes into problems from being drunk. If an establishment didn't have the right of refusal, then they would have no liability in these circumstances.

Re:It finally happened

[ThreeE]

And what enlightened country are you from?

Re:It finally happened

[dcclark]

I should try using a toonie next time I visit the US. I can see it now...

dcclark walks up to the cashier with a $1 (US) purchase and a toonie in hand.
Me: Here ya go, eh?
Clerk: You seem to have handed me a penny smashed into a half dollar. Clearly half-dollars are not legal currency. Plus your accent has outed you as a, uh, one of those people from the state of Canadia. GUARDS!!

Re:It finally happened

[_Sharp'r_]

You can't legally refuse to accept any real denomination of money in payment of a debt unless you establish it as a policy and post a notice to that effect in advance.

That's why you see all those signs about not accepting bills over $50, etc... Without the sign, they can't use the denomination as an excuse not to take the money.

At least, that's what the cops concluded when a friend of mine called them from a towing yard after they refused to take $181 in loose pennies as payment to get his car out. After calling it in, the cop basically told the towing guy that since he didn't have a sign, if he didn't take the pennies my friend would own the place after sueing.

Of course, the whole time he whined about being stuck in the office counting pennies instead of being able to make more money by towing more cars.

Since he had towed my friend's car for double-parking in a private parking spot that he had permission to park in, while leaving two cars right next door parked in a red zone (which is actually why he had been called out), we felt really bad for the tow truck guy....

Re:It finally happened

[anagama]

All I can say is, enjoy your police state buddy.

Consider, ENTITY-X does something really wrong. It doesn't actually cost that person any money to be wronged in that way. You make ENTITY-X repay that person for what they lost, namely, nothing. Now, ENTITY-X can do what it wants with impunity -- there are no adverse consequences.

On the other hand, let's say ENTITY-X has to pay a $5000 fine. This doesn't put it out of business or anything like that for this one occaision. But they will damn well think twice before making it a standard practice.

Secondly, for all the millions Best Buy has scammed on their BS rebates, I would just love to see them get hammered out of existence (and no, I don't shop there). I wish I could be on that jury -- yeah I'm prejudiced as hell (not that I'd say that) -- how do you say a number with 15 zeros after it???

Re:It finally happened

[sjames]

He has a right to lodge a complaint against the police for a bad arrest, but does he really deserve some huge settlement for it? If he did win a lawsuit against the department it would just effect the taxpayers of that area.

Probably not. However, since a judge probably can't yank the cops pants down and beat his butt red in court (preferably w/ news cameras rolling), it will have to do.

Re:It finally happened

[Gabrill]

And you would be the manager of what previously litigated store?

The reason corporate payouts are so large is because corporations do not feel the weight of small disbursements. I swear corporations have more rights than actual citizens these days.

A parking ticket can run $200. That's an entire week's take home pay for some people. You can bet they won't be parking there again. What's an entire week's take home profit for Best Buy? Don't you think that this guy was effectively slandered by the best buy representative, and that slander is worse than a parking tickit?

Think about it.

Re:It finally happened

[JeremyALogan]

"Americans got too stupid to accept our own currency."

naah... turns out Best Buy is just the first major corporation to realize that our money is now worthless.

Re:It finally happened

[sessamoid]

And what enlightened country are you from?

Obviously, he's a citizen from the enlightened country of New Mexico!

Re:It finally happened

[DarkHelmet]

If this happened to me, I would sue the pants off the police and Best Buy.

Not because I want some huge cash settlement out of this. In fact, I would donate ALL of what I earned to the ACLU and the EFF.

Sometimes suing doesn't come from the desire to get money. It happens from the desire to make those who have wronged you bleed. In a corporate society, the only way you can stab at a corporation is to make them pay financially.

Large companies answer to money. And if a large settlement / payout is what it takes for a company to understand what to do and not do, so be it.

Re:It finally happened

[Illserve]

oooo zing!

lammmmmenessssss filllllltttteeerrrrrrrr

Re:It finally happened

[cgenman]

Well, for one Best Buy deserves to be sued, badly. Not only does he deserve a refund for the service, he deserves payment for the value of his time that he spent in jail. I'd add punative to that too, just because of the sheer incompetence / gall of the cashier to have someone arrested for using $2 bills. It's also illegal to threaten police action without legal backing, something that Best Buy couldn't have actually originally done as in most states a 110 dollars debt is small enough to fall under the jurisdiction of small claims court.

The police acted pretty rationally considering they had a complaint from a trained cashier that someone was passing off funny money, a complaint they had to take seriously. And police officers aren't trained fake bill detectors, that's the job of the other agency, which they called in.

I've had a police officer point a gun at me because somebody up the street freaked out about the kids "menacing people with a huge knife." The huge knife in question was a white plastic samurai sword from a halloween costume with a large crack in that we had found by the side of the road and one of us was using as a walking stick. But the officer had to take the possibility seriously. Quite frankly the baffled look on his face when we slid it over to him and it sounded like a plastic tube was worth the whole loaded-gun-pointed-at-your-head thing. It's the job of the police to take any possibility seriously.

On the other hand, it is the job of the cashier to be able to recognize US currency. And that nobody at the store could recognize the bill is just plain pathetic. Police officers catch criminals and attempt to make the world a little safer. The cashiers at Best Buy recognize and handle money. They have no excuse.

By my estimation, I'd guess this guy should get about 2 grand from Best Buy in compensation for time, humiliation, and that car stereo install he shouldn't have paid for anyway.

Re:It finally happened

[Hard_Code]

How much does wrongful imprisonment cost to you? Maybe we should pay to have more intelligent police officers and cashiers. Or for that matter, stores that don't try to scam their customers.

Re:It finally happened

[Dhalka226]

Don't you think that this guy was effectively slandered by the best buy representative, and that slander is worse than a parking tickit?

No. I see no malice. Lots of stupidity, but no malice--and no proof that they knew what they were saying about the $2 bills being counterfeit was incorrect. Both of which are required for slander.

Judging by many of the responses to this article, I'm not sure how many people even read the article. (I shouldn't be surprised if the answer is zero, should I?) According to the writeup, the clerk's claim is that s/he thought the bills were counterfeit due to smearing of the ink on the bills. Even the police didn't know, so they called in some federal agents who affirmed that the bills were indeed legitimate and that sometimes the ink can smear.

Like I said, there may be a lot of stupidity here, but I don't see anything criminal on the part of Best Buy or the clerk, nor anything that should form the basis of a lawsuit.

Re:It finally happened

[otis wildflower]

The sad thing is, the Mint spends millions in PSAs to advertise new coinage and banknotes..

The sadder thing is, they actually really need to.

Then again, I wouldn't go to best buy in the first place because their prices suck and they charge sales tax. Missing out on crap service and moronic cashiers is only gravy.

Re:It finally happened

[DarkSarin]

I wasn't aware that malice was a requirement for slander, but IANAL.

That said, I feel (strongly) that it is the company's responsibility to ensure that their clerks are equipped mentally for a particular job--and accepting legal tender is part of their job. Being able to discriminate between fake money and real money is IMPORTANT!

Second, I don't know if Best Buy's role was criminal or not, but I do think that the police officer could have handled this much more smoothly. With the bills being marked with a pen (which would change color if the bills were fake), she should have trusted the pen, or the cop should have said, "do you mind coming with me until I get this straightened out?" Not clap him in irons and haul him off. An officer should be able to make these calls, and should CERTAINLY be able to tell the difference between counterfeit and real.

Yes, I would sue. And I'm sure that I would find a lawyer willing to take this one on. I think it is worth it.

Re:It finally happened

[ameoba]

I've been in NM for the last 2 years and I can safely tell you that there is no enlightenment here.

Re:It finally happened

[Mechcozmo]

Pennies are not legal tender in debts of over $20. So nickels would be fine, dimes are good too, but pennies aren't good over $20 debts.

Re:It finally happened

[drhonez]

Red ink on students papers is now considered "too stressful". The teachers are using "nicer" colors...

Re:It finally happened

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

With the bills being marked with a pen (which would change color if the bills were fake), she should have trusted the pen,

Absolutely. Getting your hands on the linen (I think that is the right material) that US dollars are printed on is hard (expensive), my guess is that it costs close to, or more than, $2 per bill to acquire. Similarly, bleaching a bunch of $1 bills just to reprint them as counterfeit twos is also likely to have a total cost of more than $2 per bill.

Thus, the iodine pen test should have been enough right there for any sane person, including the arresting officers, if not the BBY employees (who, it must be admitted, do have a reputation for poor reasoning skills), to conclude that the bills were not counterfeit.

Re:It finally happened

[GoRK]

You can't legally refuse to accept any real denomination of money in payment of a debt unless you establish it as a policy and post a notice to that effect in advance.

Yes; you can actually. The law is very specific about this, actually. It specifically is designed to prevent just the type of abuse you describe, such as your clever friend who likely spent a lot more time acquiring the pennies than the wrecking yard spent counting them.

That's why you see all those signs about not accepting bills over $50, etc... Without the sign, they can't use the denomination as an excuse not to take the money.

Ever tried to win an argument with a customer? A posted policy on a sign right in front of their face really helps.

At least, that's what the cops concluded when a friend of mine called them from a towing yard after they refused to take $181 in loose pennies as payment to get his car out. After calling it in, the cop basically told the towing guy that since he didn't have a sign, if he didn't take the pennies my friend would own the place after sueing.

The cop was wrong. Remember that police officers generally don't have a broad understanding of the law. This is the job of the courts. Your friend got lucky, because if he had tried to bring a lawusit against the towing yard, he would have certainly lost.

Re:It finally happened

[GoRK]

Pennies are not legal tender in debts of over $20. So nickels would be fine, dimes are good too, but pennies aren't good over $20 debts.

This incorrect fact is generally passed around with some specific amount attached to it -- most often $2, $5, $10, or $20, but at least in the United States it's not true.

All currency is legal tender in any amount; however, a business can be selective about what they are willing to accept. If a merchant wanted to ONLY accept payment in pennies, it would be legal, though likely unpopular.

Re:It finally happened

[GoRK]

I don't know why stating facts has to be questioned. If I told you that you must stop at a stop sign, would you ask for my source? Perhaps you are the orignal poster and are simply flustered that you posted misinformation. I didn't feel the need to duplicate a lot of information here.

If you really want to know the specifics, there are plenty of other posts elsewhere in this massive tree of threads with all the links you require to validate my statement. Try this post for instance. It gives you a nice overview with a paste from the actual law, and it includes links to several reputable sources to confirm it.

Re:It finally happened

[Shajenko42]

I wasn't aware that malice was a requirement for slander, but IANAL.

It is, but only for public individuals.

Re:It finally happened

[mrchaotica]

Wow, I didn't know that Answers.com was "actual law!" The closest it comes to citing the law is this:

In this regard legal tender laws do not pertain to voluntary transactions.The occasional practice of offering large quantities of small denomination coins to pay resented debts is restricted by regulations limiting the use of "subsidiary" and "minor" coins (those with denominations of less than one dollar) similar to the Canadian ones listed below.

At any rate, the key here is that this was not a "voluntary transaction;" it was a debt. For voluntary transactions, each party can choose to accept or not accept whatever they want, because they have the alternative of not proceeding with the transaction. On the other hand, they must accept any form of "legal tender" in payment of a debt, because otherwise the impound lot could hold the guy's car hostage while waiting for him to come up with $181 dollars worth of Italian Lira or something ridiculous like that.

Re:It finally happened

[OzRoy]

But does that guy deserve to get all that money? Sure may be Best Buy should be punished and they should have to pay out a large amount of money, but should it all go to the victim?

Re:It finally happened

[srjames]

It isn't. You can refuse to except any type of currency you wish to refuse. If someone wanted to pay you with $100 worth of pennies, would you accept it? Haven't you seen those signs on gas stations that say they won't take any bills larger than $20?

Re:It finally happened

[Guppy06]

"Americans got too stupid to accept our own currency."

Of course not! $2 bills have neither "Visa" nor "MasterCard" writen on them!

Re:It finally happened

[JayAndSilentBob]

I think situations where businesses have wronged a person, not causing any monetary damages to the person should be handled by small payment to the individual harmed ($250ish) and a "timeout" for the business during which they must remain closed. I don't know exactly what would be a good term, a day, a week, or a month. That would hurt the malicious business financially without the get rich quick mentality.

Re:It finally happened

[CharlieHedlin]

The iodine test is not very acurate. IIRC it respondes to the starch present in most paper but not US currency. Finding better paper that doesn't contain the wood starches is not that difficult.

It wouldn't be impossible for a bill to become contaminated and then change color, at wich point other security features of the bill should be checked. I don't believe the $2 bill has these.

The pens are designed to stop the causual color copier countifiter.

None the less, it is absolutely absurd that the arrested this guy. The origional installation threat also seems absurd. They knew who he was, etc. The installation charge shouldn't have been a criminal matter at that point. They could demand payment and threaten to sue for payment plus Attourney fees, but shouldn't be able to have him arrested as a shop lifter (how do you lift an installation?)

I have always said most people are stupid, but this confirms it beyond my wildest nightmares. The cashier, manager, police, etc. all too stupid to do their jobs.

Re:It finally happened

[General Melchett]

Yeah, he does. I mean, he spent time in a jail cell for trying to pay with legal tender. Say that to yourself a few times and see how ridiculous this whole situation is.
A large settlement and some media exposure regarding the obscene stupidity and fucking idiotic excuse surrounding this debacle would go some way to ensuring that this shit doesnt happen again....

Re:It finally happened

[STrinity]

You can't legally refuse to accept any real denomination of money in payment of a debt unless you establish it as a policy and post a notice to that effect in advance.

Wow, so if I get a thousand dollar bill, I can go into 7-11 and get free sodas and candy-bars because they don't have enough cash to break it? Cool.

Re:It finally happened

[_Sharp'r_]

Not unless they are stupid.

Faced with that situation (assuming they don't have a pre-existing policy posted, like most I've seen do), their best bet would be to say, "Hold on a few minutes, Sir, while I get your change" and just take your bill to the bank (or somewhere with enough cash) to get change for you.

Slow customer service, but hey, you gave them the large bill....

Re:It finally happened

[ralphart]

He was the one publicly humiliated, detained and treated like a criminal. If it doesn't go to the victim, who do you propose it go to?

The government? The government shackled him in irons.

In the Post 9/11 world the money would go to...?

Re:It finally happened

[sahala]

In the Post 9/11 world the money would go to...?

...me.

Re:It finally happened

[mindstrm]

- If you are shopping in a regular retail outlet, the outlet is not obligated to accept ANY type of payment whatsoever. They are certainly not required to "post signs" or anything like that.

The "legal tender" designation is only relevant to debts, and then technically only at the court level (if you refuse to accept payment of a debt in legal tender, and take it to court, the court would order it paid in legal tender anyway, so it's moot. Further, you'd never get to court for being so stupid in the first place).

Further to that, you are not required to make change for a payment. If you owe me $191.12, I can demand that you pay me $191.12, exactly. You, however, are free to pay this in pennies if you so wish. That is, if we are talking about a debt.

When you shop in a normal retail outlet, you are not racking up a debt. When you take your goods to the cashier, how you conclude the exchange of goods is up to you and the store. Jellybeans, sexual favors, smiles and kisses, pakistani coins, or good old US currency. There is no debt, you are both free to leave without concluding the transaction, you leave the goods behind, the store gets no money, everyone is happy.

Try snopes: Pennies are legal for the payment of any size debt.

http://www.snopes.com/business/money/pennies.asp

Re:It finally happened

[mindstrm]

No, because no contractual debt exists between the customer and the 7-11.

The 7-11 is free to simply not sell the goods to the customer.

Re:It finally happened

[mindstrm]

legal tender applies to contractual debts.. not regular private business transactions.

If you buy a slurpee at 7-11, the law does not regulate in any way the terms of the business exchange. You can agree to pay in whatever terms the 7-11 and you agree to, be it cash, smiles, or jellybeans. THe 7-11 can insist on pennies, for sure.

The legal tender designation only applies to settling contractual debts, like when you eat at a restaurant and then they give you a bill afterwards, or when you purchase a vehicle, or a house, etc.

Re:It finally happened

[hesiod]

> how do you say a number with 15 zeros after it???

I believe that is considered a metric "shitload."

Re:It finally happened

[hesiod]

> I don't see anything criminal on the part of Best Buy or the clerk, nor anything that should form the basis of a lawsuit.

What, you mean like sending a guy to JAIL due to a clerk not knowing anough about her job (ie, handling money)? How long would he have to be unfairly incarcerated before he had any basis for recourse? A year?

Re:It finally happened

[hesiod]

> Police officers often do not know the specifics of law.

Often? Hell, rarely do they know ANYTHING about laws besides basic traffic violations.

Taco Bell Story

[slapout]

Reminds me of this $2 bill story:

http://www.digiserve.com/eescape/closet/silly/2- at -Taco-Bell.html

Re:Taco Bell Story

[slapout]

Thanks.

Similar Story...

[MisterLawyer]

Almost the same thing happened at Taco Bell, but fortunately the security guard that arrived on the scene knew about $2 bills.

Also, here's a jpg of both sides of a $2 bill in case anybody on /. has never seen one.

Re:Similar Story...

[Ilgaz]

Wow. You can be sure, as a foreigner I had no clue $2 exists.

BTW, if you use them for any reason, don't go overseas with them. Unless its a professional (e.g. exchange office), he/she will automatically call police :)

Funny thing is, we have right not to know about it. If an american asks that question, he/she will be marked as racist or something, I guess as foreigner I have right(!) to ask.

"Is there a chance cashier was immigrant?" Not that there is anything wrong with it :)

As I asked that question, have to post with karma bonus as if any mod doesn't read above that question. Political correctness sux btw.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

BestBuy cashier broke the law

[suso]

Unfortunately for him, the cashier did not seem to understand that the $2 bill is indeed legal US tender

So the headline should say "BestBuy cashier broke the law".

Re:BestBuy cashier broke the law

[sweetooth]

Well not exactly. I believe it is the coinage act of 1967 (76?) that says vendors do _not_ have to take any form of legal tender if they disclose what they _will_ accept up front. If you attempt to pay with legal tender and are declined without them telling you they don't accept that form of payment up front they you are no longer responsible for providing payment. Interpretations of the law vary though.

Re:BestBuy cashier broke the law

[Xoro]

So the headline should say "BestBuy cashier broke the law".

Legal tender here means not illegal. It's perfectly legal to not accept it, just like it's perfectly legal not to accept bills over $20, or whatever. And for what happened after, I don't think it's illegal to report what you think is a crime, even if it turns out not to be one.

So stupid, yes, illegal, no.

Re:BestBuy cashier broke the law

[Anonymous Coward]

He falsely accused someone of trying to pass a countefeit bill. I'd say false statements covers his crime. And, yes, false statements to a police officer is a crime.

Re:BestBuy cashier broke the law

[rcw-home]

It's perfectly legal to not accept it

In this context he was paying a debt. While Best Buy still has the option to refuse the payment tendered, they can't legally make him pay in some other form. For Best Buy, it's take it or leave it.

That's why currency reads "this note is legal tender for all debts, public and private."

Re:BestBuy cashier broke the law

[pavon]

Yeah, you are only required to accept legal tender to pay off a preexisting debt. But this was a preexisting debt.

He had bought the radio the day before, and the employee then told him that the installation fee was waived because of a mixup, so he went home thinking the transaction was complete. The next day Best Buy called him and told him that if he didn't come in and pay the installation fee they would call the police. So he came in and tried to pay off the pre-existing debt with legal tender. The cashier then called the police because she thought it was fake.

So employees of this store broke the law at least once during the transaction. The manager should definitely be sued, and the staff sacked.

Re:BestBuy cashier broke the law

[the pickle]

Actually, businesses aren't required to accept any specific form of payment for a purchase, but in this case, since Best Buy claimed the customer was already in their debt (he owed them money for a service already rendered), they are required to accept any form of legal tender.

Personally, I would have paid the bastards in pennies.

p

Re:BestBuy cashier broke the law

[Xoro]

Let's clear this up:

FAQs: Currency
Legal Tender Status

Question I thought that United States currency was legal tender for all debts. Some businesses or governmental agencies say that they will only accept checks, money orders or credit cards as payment, and others will only accept currency notes in denominations of $20 or smaller. Isn't this illegal?

Answer The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 102. This is now found in section 392 of Title 31 of the United States Code. The law says that: "All coins and currencies of the United States, regardless of when coined or issued, shall be legal-tender for all debts, public and private, public charges, taxes, duties and dues."

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.

From the faq.

Re:BestBuy cashier broke the law

[MoralHazard]

Ahh, it's so good to read people who understand WTF legal tender actually means. And that's a damn good point about the existing debt versus refusing to accept payment in some form before the transaction--I didn't even think to make the distinction.

Re:BestBuy cashier broke the law

[_randy_64]

And the next headline will be, "Best Buy, Baltimore County, and Secret Service Sued for Bogus Arrest".

Some months later it will be, "Best Buy Settles Out of Court, Makes Restitution in $2 Bills"

Re:BestBuy cashier broke the law

[sjames]

coinage act of 1967 (76?) that says vendors do _not_ have to take any form of legal tender if they disclose what they _will_ accept up front.

I've never seen any notice at Best Buy (or anywhere else for that matter) that two dollar bills are not accepted. So they're still wrong. They would have had to tell him before the installation charge occurred. That would be impossible since they told him there would be no charge.

Re:BestBuy cashier broke the law

[rcw-home]

I can't tell if you read my earlier post, so to repeat: In this context he was paying a debt.

Re:BestBuy cashier broke the law

[pete6677]

Best Buy would have no reason whatsoever to call the police in a case like that. If they give you something free, you leave the store, and they later want you to pay, too bad for them. Merchants threatening to call the police in order to collect a debt is a violation of the Fair Debt Collection Act, which may apply here. There's something else this guy could sue for. When will people realize, Best Buy will keep doing shit like this because people let them. They will continue to stuff money in Best Buy cash registers no matter how poorly they are treated. Yes, it is possible to avoid them, I haven't shopped there in 3 years and I've bought plenty of electronics in that time.

Re:BestBuy cashier broke the law

[Keeper]

Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise

They are free to do so and provide notice of such restrictions before a transaction has completed. Once the transaction has completed, they are required to accept any form of legal tender. If they refuse to accept payment of legal tender, the debt will be discharged (after a civil court action, assuming the debtee or debtor takes it to court).

"Some movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations as a matter of policy may refuse to accept currency of a large denomination, such as notes above $20, and as long as notice is posted and a transaction giving rise to a debt has not already been completed, these organizations have not violated the legal tender law."

http://www.federalreserve.gov/generalinfo/faq/fa qc ur.htm#2

Re:BestBuy cashier broke the law

[HermanAB]

So, did they have a sign that they don't accept $1 coins or $2 bills?

Re:BestBuy cashier broke the law

[plague3106]

But $2 bills are NOT illegal tender...so I don't see how you justify that. I also don't think those 'we don't accept xx bill' legal either. If its legal (and $50 bills are just as legal as $2) they should be required to accept it.

your second point i believe is correct; to make a false statement to police, you'd have to know you were making a false statement.

Re:BestBuy cashier broke the law

[NaCl]

Well not exactly. I believe it is the coinage act of 1967 (76?) that says vendors do _not_ have to take any form of legal tender if they disclose what they _will_ accept up front. If you attempt to pay with legal tender and are declined without them telling you they don't accept that form of payment up front they you are no longer responsible for providing payment. Interpretations of the law vary though.

I'm guessing your comma key is broken, right?

Re:BestBuy cashier broke the law

[damiam]

You have a link to that law? As stupid as the guy may have been, last time I checked people were allowed to inform the police of their suspicions.

Re:BestBuy cashier broke the law

[SlayerDave]

In Massachusetts, we have the following law:

GENERAL LAWS OF MASSACHUSETTS

PART III. COURTS, JUDICIAL OFFICERS, AND PROCEEDINGS IN CIVIL CASES
TITLE IV. CERTAIN WRITS AND PROCEEDINGS IN SPECIAL CASES

CHAPTER 255D. RETAIL INSTALLMENT SALES AND SERVICES

Chapter 255D: Section 10A Discrimination against cash buyers

Section 10A. No retail establishment offering goods and services for sale shall discriminate against a cash buyer by requiring the use of credit by a buyer in order to purchase such goods and services. All such retail establishments must accept legal tender when offered as payment by the buyer.

Re:BestBuy cashier broke the law

[mrchaotica]

Yeah, I agree. The only reason I go in Best Buy any more is when my computer needs service, because I bought a 486 and a service plan there WAY back in the day, and am on my 3rd free warranty replacement. Currently my Compaq P4 laptop is in for its 3rd service; it will be in for it's 4th (aka automatic replacement) sometime before the warranty runs out in August.

To be honest, I'd like to have nothing at all more to do with Best Buy, but fucking them over repeatedly with their own performance service plan is a good compromise.

Re:BestBuy cashier broke the law

[mindstrm]

Only if it is a transaction that gives rise to a debt. If no debt is involved, then legal tender is irrelevant.

The grocery store, for instance, does not have to provide any kind of notice.. there is no debt involved.

Re:BestBuy cashier broke the law

[suso]

Yes, and how come these jokers above you got modded up for their bullshit but you didn't. People seem to mod up anything these days which "seems to be insightful".

Okay...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes yes, that's great. But now for the question we're all wondering about: Did he go for the service plan?

_
.

Gift cards...

[ravage386]

He should have just used a stack of Best Buy gift cards.

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[fm6]

Jeez, where does it say that Best Buy arrested him?

Reminds me of the $2 Taco Bell Story

[man_of_mr_e]

http://www.snopes.com/humor/business/tacobell.htm

At least Snopes got this right. The piece was originally written by a guy going by Captain Sarcastic (Kurt Koller) who had his own usenet group. I knew the guy back in the 80's and the story is precisely the kind of thing that happened to him (and it was his style of writing as well).

He got quite upset when several sources borrowed it and attributed it to "anonymous" sources.

Re:Reminds me of the $2 Taco Bell Story

[orangepeel]

Steve Wozniak has his own crazy story about using $2 bills at a Las Vegas casino. True or not, it's hilarious...

After being detained and then asked for photo ID by a Secret Service agent, Woz hands over a fake ID that features himself as a "Laser Safety Officer".

Wearing an eye patch.

For the "Department of Defiance."

It's probably one of the funniest stories I've read this year. Anyway, if you've never actually seen a US $2 bill, the US Bureau of Engraving and Printing has front and back images of $2 bills posted on its website.

Re:Reminds me of the $2 Taco Bell Story

[Megane]

Just keep in mind that Funny apparently no longer gives you karma.

P.S. mod me down

Can you say LAWSUIT

[torrents]

I'd be surprised if this didn't result in a defamation of character lawsuit...

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[Grrr]

From the Guerilla News Network, perhaps the original interview:

"I'm sitting there in a chair. The store's full of people watching this. All of a sudden, [a Baltimore County cop is] standing me up and handcuffing me behind my back, telling me, 'We have to do this until we get it straightened out.' Bolesta was then taken to the county police lockup in Cockeysville, where he sat handcuffed to a pole and in leg irons [for three hours] while the Secret Service was called in."

Best Buy isn't the worst villain here. Beware Baltimore County...

<grrr>

$2 bill y'all

[shbazjinkens]

I use them for tips and I've had a few waitresses give me nasty looks as if I was leaving them fake bills. It happens to $2 bill users a lot, actually.

Re:$2 bill y'all

[rayzat]

On a similar note. My roommate and I used to eat at one dinner quite frequently in college so frequently we were on a first name basis with and the staff. We went for lunch one day just after the new dollar coins came out. We each left two coins as tip for our lunch. We came by later that evening to get a snack and coffee after class only to be told by a waitress that we had really pissed off our lunch waitress. We asked how we pissed her off, and she replied that if we didn't like the service or the food for lunch we should have told her and not left a crappy tip. We were like crappy tip we left here four dollars. So we called her up and she was pissed we only left her a buck. We said we gave you 4 $1 coins. She started freaking out because she cashed them in for 1 $1 bill.

Re:$2 bill y'all

[StarWreck]

I had a customer at Michael's get the Manager, all pissed off that I had short-changed him. The Manager's standing right in my face, like she's about to fire me and the customer's face is bright red and he says "this is all the cash you gave me" as he holds one hand full of bills and one hand full of coins - including a Sacagawea Golden Dollar.

First off, is $1 worth getting the manager over? Couldn't you at least talk to the cashier first?!?

And second, its FREAKING GOLDEN! It stands out!! One look at its mighty yellowness and its obvious that its not a quarter!

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[thundercatslair]

Well, it doesn't, but why would the police handcuff and tie him to a pole?

Does this mean...

[4alexnyc]

I should call the secret service every time the postage machine spits out those damn dollar coins?They look pretty fake- I mean really, a gold coin for only a dollar??!

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[MisterLawyer]

FTA, he ended up in a county jail, so at some point the county sheriffs must have played a role in this, so they are probably the ones who arrested him.

Best Buy security guards (aka "rent-a-cops") do not have the authority to make an actual arrest, but in some states can have limited authority to temporarily detain someone while waiting for the real police to arrive. (btw, IAAL)

Insult to Injury

[NotFamous]

Strangely, as the man was being escorted out of the store, the clerk was heard to say, "Would you like a service contract with that..."

Re:Insult to Injury

[RTPMatt]

Bah! $2 bills? thats no protest, he should have paid in pennies.

For ultracynics...

[Eunuch]

Sometimes publicity is bad. Ask Arthur Andersen. Best Buy does not like this story coming out.

Re:For ultracynics...

[Tassach]

Indeed. I'm very tempted to go to the Cockeysville best buy tomorrow with a $2 bill, a couple Suzie B's and Sacejaweia dollars, 50cent pieces, and whatever other unusual currency I have around and buy something.

Good thing...

[writermike]

Good thing he didn't pay with Susan B. Anthony dollars.

The poor bastard may have been sent to Death Row!

Re:Good thing...

[ByteMangler_242]

No,
the cashier would take it and say "That's still $1.75 you owe me..."

When I was a cashier, more than once I was handed a Susan B. Anthony dollar as a quarter. When you are a starving college student, a $.75 tip for replacing it with one of your quarters can be quite nice.

Don't get me into the funny looks I got when I had to spend the 7 new gold dollar coins the one time I made the mistake of buying stamps from the post office machine in their lobby. I think most of them I kept for collector's items rather than face the Nth degree like the best buy chap.

Re:Good thing...

[izomiac]

Kinda makes you wonder what would happen if he paid in $500 or $1000 bills?

You think that's bad....

[fsh]

Try using $2 bills at a strip club.

They don't call the cops, they just beat the crap out of you. Then they trash your car.

Not that I know from, er, personal experience.

Re:You think that's bad....

[Physician]

Actually I know of a strip club that forces you to use $2 bills. My friend of a friend of a friend goes there on occasion.

Re:You think that's bad....

[wilbur62]

Actually, I've been to clubs that give you $2 bills as change for the cover charge.

Re:You think that's bad....

[fr3nch13]

Unless it is a Canadian strip club. They'll take anything with a dead president on it. Once again, not that I know from personal experience.

Re:You think that's bad....

[Jardine]

Unless it is a Canadian strip club. They'll take anything with a dead president on it. Once again, not that I know from personal experience.

Ah, but try using standard $2 Canadian money at a strip club. It will not go over well.

Re:You think that's bad....

[Roofus]

Why? Don't you guys always throw large coins at dancers? Maybe that's only in America!

Re:You think that's bad....

[Odin's Raven]

Try using $2 bills at a strip club.

They don't call the cops, they just beat the crap out of you. Then they trash your car.

It wasn't the $2 bill they objected to - it was the way you kept trying to take a dollar change each time. ;-)

Re:You think that's bad....

[fr3nch13]

$2 Canadian coins are actually called twoonies (sp). Or thats at least what I call them.

Re:You think that's bad....

[otis wildflower]

"She's a dancer, not a Coke machine..."

Re:You think that's bad....

[SuperHighImpact]

I once went to a strip club that gave you all your change in 2 dollar bills... the thought was that you'd be forced to tip twice as much... turns out I did give bigger tips but I gave out half as many. Go figure.

Re:You think that's bad....

[Anonymous Coward]

That's just unfair. How else is one supposed to convey to the stripper that just like Thomas Jefferson, you, too, have the jungle fever? They should be congratulating you for your eloquent expression of interest. Barbarians! I wouldn't tap that ass if they begged. Begged, I say!

Re:You think that's bad....

[fr2asbury]

They get really impressed if you start handing out that currancy that doesn't have a dead president on it.

Re:You think that's bad....

[sharkey]

Really? Strippers get pissed because you tip $2 instead of $1?

It's been 30 years...

[Futurepower(R)]

It's been 30 years since I've seen a $2 bill, but I don't work in retail.

People typically don't work in retail very long, and retail sales people often aren't 30 years old, so there must be many who have never seen a $2 bill.

Re:It's been 30 years...

[Seraphim1982]

I worked retail on-and-off for several years and I never saw a $2 bill.

Infact, I don't think I would have a clue what one looked like if I hadn't visited US Bureau of Engraving and Printing as a kid.

Re:It's been 30 years...

[shimmin]

Thomas Jefferson. The signing of the Declaration of Independence is on the back. One of the more lucid bits of artwork from the Bureau of Printing and Engraving.

Re:It's been 30 years...

[hikerhat]

Huh. I see them every now and then. Banks I've been to have them on hand.

I always thought everyone knows someone who likes to pay in two dollar bills because that someone thinks nobody has ever seen a two dollar bill and likes to make fun of those who have never seen one.

Little does that someone know that everyone knows someone like that.

Re:It's been 30 years...

[Dr Kool, PhD]

I always go to town with my boy Ben Franklin
Spend four get an ounce of dank then
Rich nigga gettin high and relaxin
I bust a Ben Frank and get some Andrew Jacksons Five twenties for a hundred dollar bill
You know the math, let's make a deal
On a one dollar bill if you look on the front
You'll find the face of George Washington
Make money baby that's all I do
That's how I know Thomas Jefferson is on the two
Abraham Lincoln got shot and died
Freed the slaves so they put him on the five
And Hamilton my old time friend
They put his face on the front of the ten
These are the dead presidents
From the hood and they represent
The American Dream to the average minority
Spend money get some weed and a 40

-- Too $hort

Re:It's been 30 years...

[Scooby Snacks]

Here are very small pictures of the front and back, and some facts about the notes from the US Treasury, as well as some larger images.

Idiocy on both ends.

[00 Agent Kid]

They didn't happen to check any of the other tells of the bill, did they? "It's fake" says the cashier. Therefore, it must be fake.

Re:Idiocy on both ends.

[amliebsch]

RTFA, they apparently at least did an ink smear test. The ink smeared. Hence, suspicion.

Best Buy boycott

[faloi]

I guess we should start talking about how we'll all boycott Best Buy in protest. I'll only be going there to make sure everybody else stays away...

Re:Best Buy boycott

[bersl2]

No, let's just all start paying with $2 bills.

Re:Best Buy boycott

[kb9vcr]

Would it be considered boycotting if you just buy everything they sell for a lot cheaper online and don't bother to go there anymore?

if so, let the boycott begin! (who needs mail-in rebates that take 4 months to get?)

Re:Best Buy boycott

[bersl2]

A waiter tried to beat the crap out of a group of friends of mine in the parking lot when they tried that stunt.

i have some purchases tp make there tommorow

[way2trivial]

and I'm stopping at the bank for 'change' first!

Judge Dredd Police State

[t_allardyce]

It seems like the police and other institutions in America love to use their 'free' 24 hour arrest period as a kind of on the spot punishment for anyone they don't like. they can be either held on something specific like suspicion of fraud or just for that old catch-all 'disorderly conduct'. I would imagine stores like best buy also like to use this for annoying customers - just call up and claim something arrestable is going on and who are the cops going to believe, some guy, or a reputable store? Was it even fucking necessary to handcuff this guy? i thought cuffs were only for uncooperative people and maybe transporting? There can't be much in the way of compensation if you get locked up for absolutely nothing, and in some cases people get more than 24 hours without lawyers! So just remember, if you come accross a bad cop, they can have you for a day for so much as walking funny or, and lets face it this is the real reason, paying a bill with to many small notes - don't give me that "we didn't know $2 bills wer legal and the ink looked dodgy", they were just pissed off because he was playing with them - the $2 and running ink was just a ticket for them to call the cops.

Re:Judge Dredd Police State

[tsotha]

Was it even fucking necessary to handcuff this guy? i thought cuffs were only for uncooperative people and maybe transporting?

Nope. Cops can cuff you while they're trying to figure out what's going on, and that's what they get trained to do. Every once in awhile they get involved with some minor thing and get attacked because, unbeknownst to them, the guy they're dealing with has felony warrants.

Not that I'm for it. It does make them a little safer in the same way they'd be safer cuffing everyone they talk to, or making all guns illegal. However, a certain amount of risk comes with the job, and law-abiding citizens don't appreciate being treated like criminals.

Re:Judge Dredd Police State

[pete6677]

Sure they can do this, if they want to get sued. Chicago tried this shit with war protestors and ended up paying settlements to a lot of them after they threatened false arrest suits.

Re:Judge Dredd Police State

[Wes Janson]

Officers handcuff for the simple fact that otherwise the person is a threat. Hundreds, if not thousands, of cops have been attacked or killed by people who they were trying to take into custody, and perhaps didn't want to be in custody, due to a pesky little felony warrant or two.

Re:Judge Dredd Police State

[jasonditz]

Ahh, but what if that person is a skilled lockpick? To be on the safe side, the cop should break both arms and legs and strip the man naked... just to be on the safe side...

Re:Judge Dredd Police State

[winwar]

Problem is, if you start to handcuff everyone because you can, you are likely to lose respect from law abiding citizens. And no good will come from that....

Re:Judge Dredd Police State

[Triskele]

This is why I'm glad I'm a Brit. Our cops aren't armed. They only usually handcuff you if you've been violent. Leg-irons and this other medieval shit is reserved for the real psychos. As are the orange suits and all the other forms of ritual humiliation your cops go in for. You're not even referred to as "the prisoner at the bar" in court any more, merely "the defendant" as that might prejudice a jury.

Amazingly (despite much assault) we still believe in "innocent until proven guilty".

Re:Judge Dredd Police State

[t_allardyce]

I just assumed it was like that in the US too, I can totally understand handcuffing someone if your on your own or arresting someone whos obviously a danger but most people are honest citizens and would be quite happy to come without making a fuss and clear everything up, when you handcuff someone unnecessarily and treat them like shit, you turn a decent person into a raving psycho, when you then keep them handcuffed at the police station while they're being cooperative that borders on human rights abuse and torture. Some police are scum.

Re:Judge Dredd Police State

[t_allardyce]

In new york they tried this back in the RNC protests, people were held for over 24 hours without lawyers, some were kept cuffed with plastic braces for several hours after they were taken off police buses and put in cages in a warehouse. The entire operation was based on the idea of arresting 1000's of protectors on mass as a terrorism tactic to stop them doing it a again, they weren't even given a chance to clear the street the police simply surrounded them with construction netting. Eventually some fuss was made and the police were threatened with legal action by a group of lawyers(?) unless they started releasing people. Everyone appeared in court, some accepted stupid deals to not do anything wrong in the next few months, others fought and the charges were dropped, numerous people videoed the whole thing the police acted like fucking SS nazi pigs.

Re:Judge Dredd Police State

[dbIII]

if you come accross a bad cop, they can have you for a day for so much as walking funny

In my country the favourite was the double of obscene language and resisting arrest (which also conveniently explained blood, bruises and broken bones). A lot of people were arrested at protest marches or just being out suspiciously late at night on those two charges. Plenty of people were only charged with resisting arrest, which seemed a bit odd. In that case, the Police Comissioner was a bad cop and did time for it, and the State Premier didn't go to jail due to a hung jury and no retrial.

Re:Judge Dredd Police State

[t_allardyce]

I can see how that works "your under arrest!" - "what did i do? whats going on? ahh!" - "yes thats right, your under arrest for resisting arrest".

This sort of crap has to stop, what country was that? I think the US is going towards it.

Re:Judge Dredd Police State

[dubl-u]

Amazingly (despite much assault) we still believe in "innocent until proven guilty".

Well, since 9/11 we've been working to become much more consistent on that point. We also still believe in "innocent until proven guilty". It's just that the current administration believes that it's ok to handcuff, hood, and jail innocent people indefinitely.

So... when's MY turn ?

[Chmarr]

I almost exclusively pay with $2 bills. I go to the back every few weeks and get about $400 worth, and just pay for most things with them, or a credit card if the value's quite high?

Why? Mostly, for the expression I get from the counter staff:

"Two dollar bills? Cool! Oh... damn, where do I put them in the till?"

Sometimes they go into the clerk's pocket, after being replaced with more 'common' bills :)

Re:So... when's MY turn ?

[StarWreck]

And sometimes they go into the clerk's pocket, without being replaced by more 'common' bills ;)

Re:So... when's MY turn ?

[Nastard]

You must not have been hugged enough as a child. You poor thing.

Some folks like things that you don't. People are different, and since widescreen movies and $2 bills (normally) don't hurt anyone, I don't see a problem with anyone not wanting to settle for anything less than what they enjoy.

In short, it may be annoying to you, but life is too short for people to give up things they like just to make you happy.

Re:So... when's MY turn ?

[maxpublic]

In the end it comes down to what do I dislike more, a cashier less than completely aware of all United States currency denominations or individuals such as yourself that inconvenience yourself and the bank you inconvenience just so perfect strangers can have one of your lucky special elite $2 bills.

In the end it doesn't matter for shit what you like or dislike since $2 bills are legal tender. But you'd have to get past your own sense of self-importance to see that.

Max

Re:So... when's MY turn ?

[Thu25245]

Do you crave the cloying adulation people give you when you dazzle them with rarely-seen currency? Do you also pass around $.50 coins too?

So what if he does? If it gives him his jollies, more power to him. It's perfectly legal and harmless.

I don't know what's worse, some poor Best Buy employee not up to date on his currency or people like you that just have to have $2 and nothing else.

Well, since the BB employee's job is to handle currency, and (s)he is apparently not doing it properly, I'd say that's worse.

$1 and $5 are for the peons, it's $2 bills or nothing, eh?

Poster never said that. You're putting words in his mouth.

If loved ones give you fullscreen DVD's, do you feign enthusiasm and then later toss the perfectly good movie in the trash because it's widescreen or nothing, right?

What does this have to do with anything? So the poster likes Twos. He didn't say that he only accepts Twos, or that he throws out all the Ones and Fives that he gets because it's Twos or nothing. He just said that, when he makes withdrawals, he specifies Twos.

In the end it comes down to what do I dislike more, a cashier less than completely aware of all United States currency denominations or individuals such as yourself that inconvenience yourself and the bank you inconvenience just so perfect strangers can have one of your lucky special elite $2 bills.

The banks aren't required to stock Twos. Plenty of banks don't, or so I hear, since there's so little demand for them. If a bank chooses to fulfil its customers requests by stocking the unusual currency, I wouldn't consider that an inconvenience, just good service.

As for the cashiers, the Twos are legal tender. Frankly, I'd rather be paid with a dozen $2 bills than 24 $1 bills; it's that much easier to count. For that matter, I'd much rather get the Twos than 2400 pennies. Being a retail clerk has only two real requirements: collect the customers' money, and keep the customers sufficiently happy that they come back.

Re:So... when's MY turn ?

[MooseGuy529]

So are there really still enough in circulation that you can get these from any bank? If so, I'd like to have a bit of fun soon, but I thought they stopped printing these long ago...

Re:So... when's MY turn ?

[Chmarr]

The back might have to special-order them for you, but... they were printed as recently as 2003.

I often get bands of 2s in mint-condition, sequential serial numbers and all, even though I've told the bank that they don't have to do THAT much for me :)

Re:So... when's MY turn ?

[Chmarr]

Oh my goodness... I think what another posted said should really apply to you... I think YOU weren't hugged enough as a child.

Really... I've NEVER had anyone complain - except for that brief moment of confusion about where to put them - about the 2s... and I've had tons of people get a smile on their face on getting more 2s in one hit then they've seen in their entire lives.

Quite simply, it's cool. It puts a little something unusual into people's lives... makes an otherwise boring, same-old-same-old, day for these counter clerks into something to remember... at least for a few hours.

Re:So... when's MY turn ?

[Chmarr]

Haha... my bad, he really WAS referring to you :)

Re:So... when's MY turn ?

[jaredmauch]

There is a local burger place here in Ann Arbor that regularly gives out $2 bills and 50 cent coins as change. I frequently leave the change as part of a tip during my next resturant visit. I figure it adds some fun to their lives. Any of them that don't think it's real and ditch it, it's their loss, but i've never gotten a complaint.. then again most of those places know me and i've been going there for 9+ years.

Re:So... when's MY turn ?

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Quite simply, it's cool. It puts a little something unusual into people's lives... makes an otherwise boring, same-old-same-old, day for these counter clerks into something to remember... at least for a few hours.

Absolutely. My mother-in-law runs the till at their family gas-station-convenience store. She saves every $2 bill she gets all year long and gives them to the various kids in the family as birthday presents.

Chances are a lot of the cashiers will do the same - well at least the part about saving the $2 bills and not returning them as change to other customers.

Re:So... when's MY turn ?

[Megane]

I'd rather be paid with a dozen $2 bills than 24 $1 bills; it's that much easier to count.

Okay, Einstein, where's the $2 slot in the cash register drawer?

/if there isn't a slot for it, it can't be real money

Re:So... when's MY turn ?

[dubl-u]

Quite simply, it's cool. It puts a little something unusual into people's lives... makes an otherwise boring, same-old-same-old, day for these counter clerks into something to remember... at least for a few hours.

And to this, let me say amen!

One summer I worked as a clerk in a 24-hour store, akin to 7-11. After the novelty wore off, I was always thankful for the small percentage of customers who would just treat you like a human being, rather than some sort of poorly automated till. And the ones who would actually go out of their way to perk up my night, I loved.

Re:Um dear /. crowd

[happymedium]

Uh...no. The $2 bill, like any other bill, is "legal tender for all debts, public and private." The government says YOU MUST ACCEPT IT. Unlike the various currencies of old, it's not an IOU note for gold or some such inherently valuable thing. It's called "fiat" money--worth $2 because the government says so. Good thing you're an AC, so we can't make fun of you for sleeping through high-school economics.

On top of that...

[Hamster Lover]

He was asked to come back to the store and pay the installation charge on the stereo he originally wanted, which was recommended in the first place, when this unit would not fit and a more expensive model was installed instead (he paid the difference). The store reneged on a verbal agreement that they would not charge him for installation because of the mixup.

Re:On top of that...

[WhiteDragon]

Yeah, this is the more annoying thing than the business with the $2 bills. Since they had a verbal agreement, he should take it to small claims court. They probably won't show up, and even if they do, the judge will probably find in his favor since they did say they would waive the fee.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Y0tsuya]

I'm not surprised either. Turnover rate is high and many of them are students working part-time. Once I had a cashier insisting that I present a photo ID along with my photo credit card. I politely pointed out that the whole point of having a photo on my credit card is so that I won't have to show my driver licence, which in my case is the same exact picture. "Store policy," she said, at which point I understood that she's a new trainee and must have felt it's better to be safe than sorry. So I showed my ID and everybody's happy. I guess my point is: try not to confuse the poor cashier.

bestbuy

[brennz]

1. Get treated badly by Bestbuy 2. Pay with $2 bills as protest 3. Get arrested, handcuffed to a pole 4. Sue police & bestbuy for millions 5. Profit!

Hoarding Money?

[enforcer999]

Does this mean that I need to just keep all of my 2 dollar bills, Susan B. Anthony, Sacagawea gold dollars....and all of the other various coins and dollars that I have hoarded?

Damn, I thought I could use these in the future and everyone would understand that they are actually worth more than their original price.

Yeah, the amazing part...

[Hamster Lover]

is not that the bill was accepted, but that correct change for a $200 bill was given.

In Good Company

[markus]

Wozniak got in trouble for paying with $2 bills, too. Although, his story is a little funnier: http://www.woz.org/letters/general/78.html

Re:In Good Company

[SendBot]

Holy crap that's a good story! Here's a choice paragraph:

As I opened my wallet, I considered whether I should risk using this fake ID on the Secret Service. It probably amounted to a real crime. I had my driver's license as well. But you only live once and only a few of us even get a chance like this once in our lives. So I handed him the fake ID. He noted and returned it. The Secret Service took an ID that said "Laser Safety Officer" with a photo of myself wearing an eyepatch.

Re:In Good Company

[slavemowgli]

Interesting. I wonder what right the Secret Service actually has to ask him all those questions? "Names and phone numbers of all his friends" in particular sounds like something that you don't give out to just anyone to me, ESPECIALLY not a government person. It *may* be a different story if you're actually accused of doing something illegal (in that case, though, I probably would talk to my lawyer about the whole thing first), but if it's just the SS wanting to intimidate you after you did something unusual...

Re:In Good Company

[SteveWoz]

Not only that, the security guy who had called the Secret Service had previously determined and told me that the bills were good after I had asked whether they were counterfeit. This security guy at the Hard Rock Casino said that they had the 'fibers' and had passed the pen test. So the SS guy forced me into questioning, after reading me my Miranda rights, for bills he knew were good. But if I'd protested they'd have held me for 72 hours. Instead of risking that I plopped a ridiculous phony ID on him and he bought it, earning him a place in my book someday.

Just the authority and appearance of a big title like FBI or SS is enough to throw your weight around in ways that normal police could not. You can do anything you want and there's virtually no way to be questioned.

Re:In Good Company

[slavemowgli]

I thought you can only be held for 24 hours if there's no reason?

HAppened on April First, maybe?

[BenJeremy]

No actual news articles... just a bunch of blogs carrying the story.

Sounds suspicious to me.

Re:HAppened on April First, maybe?

[Ilgaz]

I don't live in USA, I am not american. If a tourist tried to give me $2 bill to this day, I'd keep him/her a bit busy and call police.

But, as that $2 exists there from start, its happening in USA looks like April 1.

As one of above posters point, a police chief referencing sep 11 for THIS incident is not funny, its tragedy imho.

Re:HAppened on April First, maybe?

[PhoenixFlare]

No actual news articles... just a bunch of blogs carrying the story.

Hmm? What's this?

Re:HAppened on April First, maybe?

[Skapare]

The blog linked to by Slashdot actually links to a Baltimore Sun story (use email "bselig@dodgeit.com" and password "bseli" to log in) dated March 8 (well before April 1). Maybe you should RTFB.

Re:Happened on April First, maybe?

[BenJeremy]

Well, OK... still seems a might Urban Legendish.

I believe I participated in a discussion on the alt.shenanigans newsgroup 10 years (or longer) ago that mentioned getting a stack of $2 bills and gluing them to a cardboard pad backing, then making a bit of a flourish when paying using the bills, ripping them from the pad. /not to self: Don't pull joke in Baltimore.

Re:Um dear /. crowd

[glwtta]

Yeah, refusing to accept currency and having people arrested are somewhat different things though.

This is the best buy I usually go to.

[EggyToast]

I'm going to stop by the bank and stock up on $2 bills. The sad thing is that the guy felt humiliated when he was in the right -- if anything, he should've been standing taller knowing that, if anything, he was OWED for his trouble.

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[game kid]

It's bad enough he was arrested and imprisoned for using legal tender...but locked up in Cockeysville? That, my fellow posters, is torture.

Canadian quarters

[yo5oy]

The bastards have no problem giving me Canadian quarters as part of my change. I haven't shopped at Worst Buy since they started "tracking" troublesome customers. You know the kind that returns defective merchandise or mails off for their rebates.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[El Cubano]

You know, that a Best Buy would have such an ignorant cashier (who now claims the bills were "smudged" and so "appeared to be counterfeit") does not surprise me in the least. It happens. Lots of people are stupid.

You should try paying in Susan B. Anthony dollars someplace. Even though coins are struck with "One dollar" right on the face, some people insist that they are quarters. Very annoying.

Confused about cashier's actions

[Mikito]

I'm not a lawyer and I'm not a cashier, but isn't it illegal to accept currency that you think is counterfeit? In other words, why would the cashier accept the $2 bills then mark them as "counterfeit"?

I would think that the cashier would either accept the money or reject it and call a supervisor/store security, no in-between. But then again, I'm not a cashier.

As a side note, I think I've only seen a $2 bill a couple of times. It has my favorite reverse side of any U.S. paper money I've seen, a depiction of the signing of the Declaration of Independence, if I remember correctly. I have a $2 bill stored somewhere around here...

Re:Confused about cashier's actions

[Wild Wizard]

As an added bonus if they tried this in Australia the clerk would be charged with defacing currency (yes it's a crime here).

WTF is this doing in YRO?

[happymedium]

Now if I sent Best Buy 57 $2 credit card transactions, and they banned my IP, that would be one thing...but...um...none of this took place online.

Re:WTF is this doing in YRO?

[zippthorne]

hmm.. could be a colloquialism.. in NY, they say online when they mean in line.

Re:WTF is this doing in YRO?

[Nos.]

Okay, maybe offtopic, but we see this come up in a lot of YRO topics. The question is, how do we interpret Your Rights Online?

• as - Your Rights Online
  About your rights in the online world - is it illegal to spam, download music, etc.
• as - Your Rights Online
  Discussing your rights in an online discussion group instead of at a coffee shop

Personally, I sort of see it as the second one... its a place for discussing people's rights, not just their rights in the "online" world. It just happens that we discuss it on a website.

Re:WTF is this doing in YRO?

[NanoGator]

"WTF is this doing in YRO?"

Is this really an Insightful question? Is there really some great injustice being done?

Re:WTF is this doing in YRO?

[isthisorigional]

You are SO right. I demand a new section: Your Rights Offline. We can short form it to... Oh.. Shit.

There is such a thing as bad publicity...

[angryflute]

Seeing stories like these makes me feel less inclined to step into a Best Buy unless I really need to. I'm finding better deals and less hassle through online stores anyway.

Best Buy really needs to get its act together and start a new focus on customer service. Otherwise, they're going to lose a significant amount of their business to online retailers, and others that are still bricks-n-mortar.

Re:There is such a thing as bad publicity...

[MooseGuy529]

Best Buy doesn't need to focus on customer service at all... brick-and-mortar stores are becoming a niche market for a) those who don't shop online and b) when you need something right now and can't wait for it to ship. There's always a market, and at least a few suckers to buy extended warranties, so there's no need for them to treat their customers well.

But I think next time I go to the bank I'm definitely grabbing a few of those things ;-)

Re:There is such a thing as bad publicity...

[NanoGator]

"Seeing stories like these makes me feel less inclined to step into a Best Buy unless I really need to."

I wouldn't be so quick to malign Best Buy over one isolated incident. Don't get me wrong, I understand your point, but there's no reason why this couldn't have happened at CompUSA, WalMart, Circuit City, etc. Same type of people getting hired. Same pay. Same training.

Re:There is such a thing as bad publicity...

[Megane]

At least Best Buy didn't try to sabotage the DVD format with heavy DRM and the absence of widescreen transfers.

This is why Circuit Sh*tty is a place I only go every couple of months when I'm looking for $5 video game closeout deals or when their competition is not available. Yes, still, after all these years.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[fm6]

What scares me ... is that this guy made it all the way to the county lock-up on the suspicions of one cashier.

That cashier didn't get him arrested all by himself. Somebody had to convince the cops that they guy was up to no good. I doubt if a single cashier can do that. So we have to spread the blame to the store manager and the cop making the arrest. Not to mention that nobody in the store or cop shop knew enough to point out that there are $2 bills!

I don't know if it is true or not

[hvacigar]

but during a radio program I was listening to, it was reported that the $2 bills were sequentially numbered and that the anti-counterfeit ink smeared on one of the bills. If this is true, then it may not be so far fetched that the police would have been contacted. Does this justify an immediate arrest in handcuffs? No, but if true, it does lend some light to why Best Buy would have acted the way they did, and it would give them one hell of a defense against a defimation suit.

Re:I don't know if it is true or not

[TheHawke]

The ink used to check bills will CHANGE in color, not smear. Now that is with the pens that i've been using on a regular basis. All the cashier needed to do is hold the bill up to the light and see the mylar strip embedded in the bill.

This tells you alot what bestbuy's hiring policy is like.. They dislike folks that think too much for their own.

Re:I don't know if it is true or not

[jachim69]

So what if they're sequentailly numbered? I get sequential bills from ATMs all the time. The real problem would be if they all had the same number!

Re:I don't know if it is true or not

[hvacigar]

does the $2 bill have a strip? The $1 does not.

Re:I don't know if it is true or not

[coyote-san]

The feds printed up a bunch of $2 bills within the last few years. I'm not sure why. But that means that you're surprisingly likely to get sequential bills since the bank probably has a new brick of them in the back.

It's not like they're being pulled in from circulation...

Re:I don't know if it is true or not

[surprise_audit]

The article doesn't say if the bills were returned to the guy or not. If they were, and if he kept them, they'd be prime material for the prosecution. Presumably $2 bills have all the usual anti-forgery protections, including the watermark and the opaque strip that could be checked in the store, as well as the micro-printing that needs a good magnifying glass to see.

Re:I don't know if it is true or not

[amliebsch]

Presumably $2 bills have all the usual anti-forgery protections, including the watermark and the opaque strip that could be checked in the store, as well as the micro-printing that needs a good magnifying glass to see.

I don't think so, because, like the $1 bill, it has not been redesigned to incorporate the new security features and supersized portraits.

Re:I don't know if it is true or not

[surprise_audit]

Maybe not the new, bang-up-to-date security features, but watermarking and opaque strips have been around for a very long time. A quick eyeball check should show them as present. Of course, maybe the cashier and store manager aren't smart enough to realise that those are not easy to reproduce. There's no mention of anyone calling a bank to verify that $2 bills might possibly be legal tender, either.

Re:I don't know if it is true or not

[Boronx]

I hate to break this to you, but people just aren't out there counterfeiting 2 dollar bills.

"How do you counterfeit a two dollar bill? You take a twenty and rub the 0 off."

Re:I don't know if it is true or not

[Artifakt]

In general, sequential numbers have not been considered a sign of possible counterfeiting in many years. In addition, the only method worth employing to duplicate bills as cheap as the 2$ is essentially simple photocopy, which results in identical, not sequential numbers. Making sequential 2$s would probably cost more than 2$ each once you factor in the parts like paper that appeared correct, and any professional would duplicate older 20$s or 5$s instead, just as they would avoid sequential numbers.
It is possible that the young employee actually heard of that old sequential rule of thumb, but much more likely he did not think any such thing at the time and was coached to make that claim by the manager after the situation went wrong. This can probably be determined for sure - Best Buy uses a videotape or CD instruction set for training cashiers, and what's on the tape or CD can be checked against what the cashier now claims. Best Buy may be able to raise reasonable doubt this way but I wouldn't bet on beating the preponderance test in a civil suite.

Re:I don't know if it is true or not

[hunterx11]

Those pens just change color if there's starch in the bill. They're almost more for feeling safe than being safe.

Re:I don't know if it is true or not

[rusty0101]

See

Neither the $1, nor the $2 bills are being redesigned.

My own understanding is that the $2 is so little used in circulation that it is under too much scrutiny for being a counterfit already. No self respecting, or even self aware counterfiter would create or use one.

As most counterfiters are going to be using bills with duplicate serial numbers, it would be too easy to catch a bunch of $1s with the same serial number.

So far as I know, neither the $1, nor the $2 have security threads from the 1995 updates. Also the $5 does not have the color changing ink that the $10 and larger denominations have.

-Rusty

Re:I don't know if it is true or not

[surprise_audit]

I didn't actually have any $1 bills on hand to check when I wrote that. Now I do, and you're right - no security threads. I guess I just assumed that they would, as the embedded thread technology has been around since at least 1940, as that's when the Bank of England issued one pound notes with threads.

Re:I don't know if it is true or not

[Guppy06]

"Now that is with the pens that i've been using on a regular basis."

I seem to be having trouble finding the links now, but either the USSS or BEP reccomend against relying on so-called counterfeit detection pens. Really, with the only bills you'd want to worry about, it's probably faster and more accurate to hold them under a black light; among other things, those strips glow different colors for different denominations.

"All the cashier needed to do is hold the bill up to the light and see the mylar strip embedded in the bill."

Those are only in $5's and larger, and only with the redesigned $5's. Before the redesigns, they were only in $20's and larger.

Also, because we're talking about $2's, those bills may have been from 1976, well before any bills had those strips in them.

Re:I don't know if it is true or not

[Guppy06]

" The feds printed up a bunch of $2 bills within the last few years. I'm not sure why."

The 1995 batch was finally beginning to run out. They seem to be moving faster than they used to, though; the batch before that was 1976.

"But that means that you're surprisingly likely to get sequential bills since the bank probably has a new brick of them in the back."

The bank also has old bricks. Nobody but us crazies ask for $2 bills; nobody outside of Monticello actually uses them to stock cash drawers (this is why it took so long for the 1995 bunch to dry up). Since $2's don't go in and out of the bank no a regular basis like other denominations, you're very likely (perhaps "more likely") to get $2's in sequetial order, reguardless of year.

The last time I got deuces was a year ago or so. They were all 1976, and they were in sequence.

Re:I don't know if it is true or not

[Otonotachibana]

Anti-counterfeit ink? The fact is ink on real money will smear on itself and will smudge on white paper. If a new looking bill does not smudge it is counterfeit! Take a new looking bill out, test it. I guarantee it will leave faint green marks on white paper.

Oh, and money from the federal reserve comes sequentially numbered.

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[FuturePastNow]

To paraphrase a poster on Fark.com (can't give you an exact quote, they spilled beer on their database :) "I feel sorry for the Secret Service agent. You train for years to bust big counterfeiters, and then you get called for this."

It's a well known fact that Best Buy hires only the stupidest people it can find, but a cop ought to at least know what currencies are legal.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Virtual Karma]

Let all the /.ers unite and protest. Lets not buy from Best Buy. Let the bastards starve. Then all the employees there, including the cashier will have to pose nude for 'PlayBoy Best Buy edition'. I really dig that blonde chick at the store... finally I can get a glimpse ;)

More Cl please

[mw13068]

We need much more chlorine in our gene pool...

$2 Bill Story

[Blind_Io_42]

A long long time ago in a state that isn't mine a town decided they did not like the military presence from the local post and made life difficult by hassling soldiers on pass. Come payday the post CO paid everyone in $2 bills, since it was an unusual denomination. By then end of the day the town found out how much money the post brought into their little town. And everyone lived happily ever after.

Re:$2 Bill Story

[fimbulvetr]

You can read the version of that story at the bottom of this wikipedia article:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two_dollar_bill

Not quite arrested, but close

[stuffman64]

Like the guy in TFA, I ask for $2 bills all the time from the bank when I cash my paycheck. The bank is more than happy to give them to me, citing that they are a waste of space for other more common bills.

The first round of fun comes when the teller gives me the money- usually tellers count money very fast, but when they get to the $2 bills, they slow down significanty (it's funny to me, at least). Next comes when you try to spend them at Wal-Mart. Here are my favorite examples:

1) The cashier asks me to pay with "regular" money, as she somehow didn't realize $2 bills are legal tender.

2) Another cashier asks me if they are fake. When I tell her no, they are in fact real, she questions me again, and turns on her blinky-light to signal the manager to come over. The manager tells her they can accept them, but asks me not to use them next time. The manager leaves, and the cashier is confused as to where they put the bills, as there is no slot for them. She puts them with the $20s, instead of under the drawer like she should (probably because they both had "2"s on them).

3) Yet another cashier questions their validity about a week later. He says there are no slots for 2s in the drawer, so he can't take them. I tell him there are no slots for 50s and 100s either, which for some reason upsets him. There goes the blinky light, and over comes the manager. She recognizes me from last week, and asks why I continue to "make trouble." I tell her that $2 bills are legal tender, blah blah blah, yet she insists that I only do it to cause problems (well, she kinda has a point there... but I like $2 bills because they are prime, like $5 dollar bills). Basically, she told me I was not welcome to shop there if I continued to try to use $2 bills there. I called the Wal-Mart customer service number, left a complaint, and suprisingly, was rewarded with a $20 gift card. I later received a letter stating that the manager has been contacted, and there is no reason whatsoever that I shouldn't be allowed to spend $2 bills there. So now, every time I go, I make sure I use at least one of them. ;)

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[x136]

1) The cashier asks me to pay with "regular" money, as she somehow didn't realize $2 bills are legal tender.

At this point, you should apologize, take the $2 bills back, and pay your remaining debt in Susan B. Anthony dollars. ;)

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[Lumpy]

You are my friend!

I also do something like this. a local gas station has signs everywher that they do not accept $50.00 and $100 dollar bills.

Guess what. when I goto fill the RV I use them exclusively. The change I get back is usually 5-6 bucks. so it is not inconviencing them. I forced them to call the cops 3 times in 2 years as in Michigan refusing legal tender payment marks a debt paid in full, so that gas I paid is free if they refuse my money.

every time the cop shows up, after a few minutes of them trying to convince me to pay with something else, they take my large bills, I say thank you and "see you all next week/month!"...

Guess what, the signs stating they do not accept 50's and 100's is gone... I guess I ned to find another gas station to torment.

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[otis wildflower]

I love the sentiment, but I hate standing in line behind folks like you :/

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[Dunbal]

At this point, you should apologize, take the $2 bills back, and pay your remaining debt in Susan B. Anthony dollars. ;)

Or those big couple of sacks of pennies you brought with you...

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[Grey_14]

You Sir, Are an A-Hole, You don't see this as rude, even childish? Ok, so $2 bills are legal currency, But your just messing with people, whom you know won't know what to do with them, then when the manager specifically asks you not to, because they know your just causing trouble, and you go ahead and continue on with them at the same store even anyway's, When they ask you AGAIN to stop, (And saying your not welcome was over the top, I'll admit that), you leave a complaint and get them in crap? Really, Are you one of those people who twists the wording in sales and promotions to mess with people? Do you take pride in confusing retail clerks? Ever worked retail? We hate you.

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[amigabill]

>The first round of fun comes when the teller gives
>me the money- usually tellers count money very
>fast, but when they get to the $2 bills, they slow
>down significanty (it's funny to me, at least).

Yea, funny. May not be because of trying to count by twos though. $2 notes, because they are so uncommon, don't wear like more common notes do. You'll nearly always find them in brand new, fresh off the rpessed mint condition. These brand spanking new notes tend to stick together, they don't slide off each other like "used" bills do.

For kicks, go to the bank and get yourself a $50 stack of brand new $1 notes. They'll be sequential serial numbers too. They'll stick together. Try and count through them nice and fast and see what you come up with.

Then go get yourself a stack of food stamps and try to count those, I remember they were even sticker than the new $1 bills were. Being handed a number of booklets of foodstamps was not fun to count. I hated customers using them because they were a pain, and you can't use food stamps larger than $1 that were not still in their issue booklet (at least not at the store I worked at) or give ANY foodstamp note as change or anything, so they are by definition brand new and sticky.

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[Anonymous Coward]

What a crackpot. What is wrong with you that would make you do these things?

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[Impotent_Emperor]

I've heard that there is a law that people don't have to accept tender that is less than 25 cents in value.

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[QuantumInterference]

What is wrong with you? Your post under anonymous coward is fitting. What is your problem with someone doing something that they have a legal right to do?? Everyone else, the average dipshit such as yourself, is either to stupid, to ignorant, or just an asshole and tries to make their own selfish lives easier by trampling on someone else's rights.

If fricking gas stations weren't owned by morons, managed by morons, and staffed by morons, there would be no problem with accepting $50 or $100 bills. Ever hear of a timed drop safe? Every retail establishment should have one and any large bills and drawer cash totalling over $100 should go in it frequently. (Large bills immediately.) I am sick and tired of walking in to some loser fracking crap hole gas station and getting crap about paying for $27 of gas with a $50. Meanwhile, I notice when they open the cash drawer that they must not have been to the bank or used a safe all week...seriously...must have been $3,000 or $4,000 in that drawer. Same thing at numerous restaurants and other establishments in the area. They are going to get robbed because someone CAN SEE $4,000 in their drawer, not because they accept $50 bills that should immediately be placed in a whole in the floor.

The business owners and managers whom refuse to install and maintain this equipment should be sued out of existance by anyone that is robbed. Most retail businesses require some type of timed drop safe and frequent skimming. However, in most cases, the timer is broken, the lock doesn't work, and employees are bitched out for wasting time to skim the tills. If you are smart enough to know what bullshit this is, move on--get out of that shithole. If not, at least wisen up to the existance and legality of $2, $50, and $100 bills and STFU.

Legal tender is LEGAL TENDER. My congrats to the gentleman in Michigan. I am looking for a similar law in Indiana now. In fact, this should be a federal law. At the very least, if they refuse my $50, they'll be taking a $20 deduction for the time it takes me to go get them "small bills" or waiting until the next time I stop by their establishment (6 months after an incident of this sort) to get their payment.

I'd love to have the local dumbshit donut chomper throw me to the ground over a $2, $50, or $100 bill. I am highly confident I can unload his weapon and kick his ass before the county mounties show up. Then, when they show up, break a few bones and such...I'll enjoy living in my brand new home in the next county over (to avoid the new, excessive property taxes in the prior county.) What?? You don't like me for raising your property taxes?? Why don't you pay more attention to the dumbshits working for you? Like school employees embezzling hundreds of thousands of dollars, county and city cops barely smart enough to flip burgers, et cetera.

Get a grip and be glad SOMEONE is out there defending the rights of lazy asses such as yourself.

DISCLAIMER: I live in a small town...where things are supposed to be rosy and sweet. In fact, quite the opposite. No business or government employee believes in service. If you don't like the $20 burnt or half cooked pizza, you can shove it...go to Pizza Hut 25 miles over. If you don't like the phone service, go somehwere else they say...there is no one else. Thank God Comcast came here. They have already taken most of the phone companies Internet business (only ISP before now) and if VOIP takes off, these morons are done.

Have a nice day.

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[stuffman64]

Ever worked retail? We hate you.

Yes, in fact that's how I pay for college, working 20-30 hours a week as a cashier (somewhat alluded to by my comment of putting the 2s under the drawer, though not explicitly).

Also, though it may inconvenience the store accepting odd or large bills, in many states not accepting tender is acknowledging that a debt is paid in full (as mentioned by another poster).

Additionally, it is beyond my comprehension that someone would not be familiar with a $2 note. Though not printed in large numbers, they are still just as much a currency as any other bill, and there is no reason to assume it would not be treated as such. I do not do this the be an ass; rather, I quite like $2 notes, and it disappoints me that they are not commonly in circulation. By spending the bills, I put them in back in circulation, and perhaps some people will realize they do not need to keep every $2 bill they encounter in a sealed envelope in their closet.

Lastly, I do not get to do much shopping during the day, and any time I go to Wal-Mart (where this all happened) is usually late-evening or nighttime. I would not be inconsiderate enough to delay people on purpose. If three separate cashiers do not know that $2 bills are legal tender, I would say the problem lies in the people and not the store. Why cannot I expect to walk into a major retail store and spend a legal tender note?

And no, I would never twist wordings in promos and sales for my advantage, even though the stores are doing it to us.

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[Eric S Raymond]

So pay in quarters ;]

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[stuffman64]

Most of the $2 notes I get have already been well-worn and in circulation. The problems arise when the teller is counting from twos starting with, say, $379 dollars (they always count the ones before the twos for some reason).

And yes, those foodstamps suck.

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[stuffman64]

Actually, I do often pay with Sacajawea dollar coins, as they are given in change at a stamp machine located in the store I work at. People, hating coins and such, spend them before leaving the store. When my shift is over, I "buy" the coins from my drawer. Also, I will occasionally get a roll or two at the bank, when they have them.

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[stuffman64]

As stated in my response to Grey_14, I do not shop during the day, and would never be inconsiderate enough to hassle the people behind me. If I did shop during the day, and there was a line behind me (and I somehow would know the cashier has no idea that $2 bills are legal tender), I wouldn't hesitate to use my debit card and get out of there as soon as I can.

As a cashier myself, I know how frustrated people can get while waiting in line. I just don't understand how people do not accept that fact that $2 bills are just as good as two ones or 40% of a $5 bill.

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[Patik]

Um, the gas station managers are being absolute morons and he's taking advantage of it. He said his change is only $5-$6, so it's not like he's buying a candy bar and getting $49 in change. I'm glad there are people out there who do this; not accepting moderately large bills (and at a gas station, no less; everyone complains about high gas prices but they don't take large bills) is oppressive, inconvenient, and semi-illegal (since they have to give the gas for free when they refuse legal tender).

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[Sam Gibson]

DISCLAIMER: I live in a small town...where things are supposed to be rosy and sweet. In fact, quite the opposite. No business or government employee believes in service. If you don't like the $20 burnt or half cooked pizza, you can shove it...go to Pizza Hut 25 miles over. If you don't like the phone service, go somehwere else they say...there is no one else. Thank God Comcast came here. They have already taken most of the phone companies Internet business (only ISP before now) and if VOIP takes off, these morons are done.

And this is why I support Walmart in small towns. At least then the super over-priced and no service "mom and pop" joints go away.

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[anglete]

(well, she kinda has a point there... but I like $2 bills because they are prime, like $5 dollar bills)

Umm, How bout 'em $1's?

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[Esion Modnar]

but I like $2 bills because they are prime

Imagine the fun to be had with $17 bills, if they existed.

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[Riktov]

>>>
I called the Wal-Mart customer service number, left a complaint, and suprisingly, was rewarded with a $20 gift card.
>>>

Did you try to exchange it for ten $2 gift cards?

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[bVork]

When I worked at a gas station, we used a little bit of intelligence when it came to enforcing the 'no $50 or $100 bills' policy.

The main reason for having that sign is to prevent idiots from wiping out all of our change. Since our till had between $150 and $300 in it usually, paying for $10 of gas with a $100 bill created serious problems when trying to make change for other customers. So, we tended to refuse any bills that would require us to give above $30 in change back. On the other hand, we were happy to accept such large bills for, say, a $96 fill-up.

And all of you seem to forget that employees can be horrible too - I've given two dozen (loose) $2 coins (I'm Canadian) to the morons who swear up and down that the $50 is the only money they have on them. And then come back a week later and do the same thing again. If you do it to the cashiers repeatedly, don't be surprised if they return the favour.

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[slavemowgli]

But if their refusal to take legal tender already makes your debt paid in full, then why do you let them take the (large) bills in the end after all?

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[stuffman64]

Because one is not prime.

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[rusty0101]

And how does that apply to either the Susan B, or Sacagawea 'Dollar' coins?

Both have the value of 100 cents. Though perhaps you are unable to read the printing on the coin itself indicating it has a value of a dollar?

-Rusty

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[QuantumInterference]

Bullshit. (I know this is a minor reason. The ipso facto MAIN reason is to prevent robbery.) The thing is, when you have $4,000 cash in the drawer, you can make $96 in change. If you were ACTUALLY doing the drops you are supposed to do, this would be legitimate. However, in my experience, 99.9% of you ARE NOT making the drops, so, STFU and make the change...and have your baseball bat ready to "foil" the robber. And, by the way, having only $20 change in the draweer AS YOU should IS a legitimate reason for NOT accepting large bills. If I buy $10 of gas and you REALLY don't have change for my $50, you can keep the tip...trust me, my $40 is SAFE. As I said before, the owner, management, and staff are too fracking lazy/stupid to follow best practices. So, what does the public get? Fracking laziness from the imbeciles at the establishment.

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[Megane]

There goes the blinky light, and over comes the manager.

I can't help but be reminded of that Star Trek episode. "Norman, coordinate." Bunch of freaking droids.

They're the product of our wonderful education system, by the way.

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[Atragon]

Try using nothing larger than a few loonies and a crapload of quarters and smaller to make up about $12 in change. (4-day long weekend, banks closed, busy movie theater, we ran out of 5s.)

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[phats garage]

I see signs on the pumps that tell the customer that the store won't change a 50 or above. So if the customer comes in with a 50, the clerk is in the right to refuse the sale and it'll be the customers tough luck, he'll get convicted of driving off without paying if he doesn't pay up.

Really its common sense that if you've got a $50 or above and its a convenience store, see if it can get changed or even better, I always prepay at the pump or use a credit card.

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[dubl-u]

What a crackpot. What is wrong with you that would make you do these things?

Some people like to cause a little trouble. What of it? The question isn't whether he likes that, but whether he uses his powers for good or for evil.

In this case, the guy seems to be getting people to act like people, rather than dumb-policy-following robots. It's more convenient for him, it's no less convenient for them, and it makes sense. And it happens to be the law. That seems like a net good.

The people who worry me aren't the ones who are a little jerky for a good cause. They're the well-intentioned ones who do a lot of harm. E.g., people supporting abstinence-only sex ed, or opposing needle exchanges for addicts. They mean well, but they don't seem to get that in the end it's the outcome that matters.

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[dubl-u]

It's a completely unnecessary waste of police time. If they are wasting their time chasing innocent idiots, they aren't chasing criminals.

So a store breaks the law, refuses to accept legal tender, and is so stubborn about it that they insist on calling the cops, and it's the fault of the guy who wants to pay with a 50?

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[mindstrm]

That might be one for the lawyers. Private transactions can be in any form the parties involved will mutually accept.

legal tender only applies to contractual debts.

Whether or not this constitutes a debt might be fuzzy.. you haven't left the premesis with the product yet, so technicall the gas does not belong to you yet. They could siphon it back out, for instance.

Contrast to a restaurant, where it's definately a debt, because you have been allowed to consume the food (as well as use the service) before being charged.

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[dubl-u]

The consequences of his actions result in less cops chasing actual criminals.

This is probably untrue. It turns out that police dispatchers know that some things are more important than others. A call like this would only rise to the top of the queue if the cop were otherwise idle. Ten minutes stopped at a gas station versus ten minutes cruising up and down the street is probably a wash in public safety terms.

For what? Feeling superior to some lousy student behind the counter?

For increasing convenience for everybody, not just him. For getting people to follow the law. For getting clerks to act like people, not policy-following robots (or jobsworths as the brits call 'em). For making the world work ever so slightly better.

The state the guy posts from, Michigan, has another law, one where if something shows one price but the scanner charges you another, you get 10x the difference back. It's a great consumer protection law with a built-in enforcement mechanism. My mom regularly catches companies with this.

But by your logic, if they say no, she should just meekly go along, because cops have better things to do. In your framework, exactly how far should we take this? Until violent crime is ended, should I stop reporting thefts? Until all murders are caught, should I let a little assault go? I'm guessing not, but I'm not sure where you'd draw the line.

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[dubl-u]

I'm not saying that lesser crimes should be ignored, I'm saying that you shouldn't provoke a lesser crime in the first place just because you feel like being an asshole.

If the guy never would even want to pay with a fifty and is doing this solely to be a jerk, you might have a point. But the way I understand it, he wanted to pay with a fifty, they refused, and he pushed it. Subsequently, he refused to let them go back to their old policies. Sure, he could change his banking behavior to accommodate them. Equally, they could change their behavior to accommodate him. Since they are a) a business that's trying to get customers, b) legally obliged to take his money, and c) unreasonably and blindly following a policy, the choice seems pretty clear to me.

And really, even if the guy were doing this solely to be a jerk, my point is that he's being a jerk in a socially useful way. It might be a better world if people didn't have the urge to cause trouble, but given that the urge exists, I'd much rather see people channel it constructively. Some of the most difficult, annoying people I know ended up in high tech or as lawyers. They put most of their jerkiness into their work, and society is a better place for the work they do.

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[dubl-u]

I think you're reading more into his text than is warranted about how his feud with this gas station began. If you want to prove that his sole purpose is to be a jerk, you'll have to ask him.

You already know I disagree with your point about police attention. You seem to keep refusing to get my point that some people, inclined to be difficult, can put that to use to make things run better for those who aren't inclined to raise a fuss.

And I'm not so interested in discussing things with ACs, so if you want to keep this discussion going, get yourself an account.

Re:Not quite arrested, but close

[gfreeman]

I called the Wal-Mart customer service number, left a complaint, and suprisingly, was rewarded with a $20 gift card.

You should have demanded ten $2 gift cards.

Legal tender

[nuggz]

I believe legal tender means it MUST be permitted to pay a debt. There are likely coinage or trade laws to prevent someone from paying debts in unreasonable currency. Stuff like more then 40 of any given demonination.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[deanj]

You'd be surprised now some cashiers react to money like that. At the grocery store, I saw someone ahead of me try and pay part of their bill with a 50 cent piece, and the cashier handed it back saying "We don't take Canadian money". I gave the lady two quarters for it after trying to convince the cashier it was really a US coin.

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[fm6]

I'm sorry, but if you don't understand the concept of "under arrest", I can't help you!

Impressions

[EmbeddedJanitor]

I was under the impression cops need evidence before arresting you. You have this impression because Uncle Sam wants you to have it.

Re:Impressions

[MrLint]

Au contraire, Uncle sam wants you to rat out anyone you think might be a 'terraist' regardless if you are a mindless slug on minimum wage, who if you had any fewer working brain cells, the majority leader of the senate would pass a bill to keep you alive against your will.

Sweet, I got in terrorism, Tom Delay, morons, low paid employees, and Terri Schiavo in one post. Tell me what I win Johnny!

Re:Impressions

[mrnobo1024]

Tom DeLay is actually the majority leader of the House, not the Senate.

Re:Impressions

[MrLint]

Indeed, however when they are acting as a mindless herd its hard to tell who's in charge.

Re:I call shenanigans!!!

[Thumpre]

Well, the Baltimore Sun reported on it on March 8, 2005. http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-md.oles ker08mar08,1,76004.column?coll=bal-local-columnist s&ctrack=3&cset=true As for why it is a big deal now...dunno.

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[Fadeproof69]

If you replace Best Buy with a strip club, and the cashier with a stripper, it'll all make sense--including the pole.

Re:Um dear /. crowd

[MAdMaxOr]

> The government says YOU MUST ACCEPT IT.

Not entirely true. You must accept it for DEBTS. You do not have to accept it for products and services yet to be rendered. In this case, they are not obligated to accept it.

In another example, say you pump gas at a place that lets you pay after pumping (rare these days, but it used to be common). In that case, you can pay with whatever valid currency you want.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Any more sink-the-company ideas?

[Futurepower(R)]

First Best Buy was on Slashdot for allegedly abusive practices concerning rebates. Now this. Does Best Buy management have any more sink-the-company ideas?

The correct way to handle this was for Best Buy top management to apologize to everyone, and give the guy whatever he wants from the store free. Apparently they still haven't done that.

If it were me, if I were the Best Buy CEO, I would be on the phone now, saying to the guy, "Can I personally deliver our top-of-the-line home theatre to your house in 30 minutes? It's free. In return, I need you to sign this form accepting our sincere apologies." Then all the stories would be about what a great deal the guy got.

But no. Now that Osama bin Laden showed the way, everyone has to imitate violent extremist fundamentalist Arabs now, don't they? Treat everyone else with hostility.

Re:Any more sink-the-company ideas?

[EnsignExtra]

If anyone else cares to to write or call them: Customer Service Inquiries Best Buy Corporate Customer Care P.O. Box 949 Minneapolis, MN 55440 1-888-BEST BUY (1-888-237-8289) Corporate Headquarters Best Buy Co., Inc. Corporate Headquarters P.O. Box 9312 Minneapolis, MN 55440-9312 612-291-1000 Many companies still seem to ignore online feedback, I've found. A deluge of angry geeks would be rather just.

Re:Any more sink-the-company ideas?

[chrism238]

I also heard that Best-Buy was owned by Microsoft, and that they have undertaken a TCO study of Windows.vs.Linux and that Windows is 84% less expensive, and that they also drown kittens as well.

Re:Any more sink-the-company ideas?

[EnsignExtra]

PS: Be sure to use the line "this explains why your stock is doing so badly." It drives them crazy. (I used to answer those letter myself, so I know.)

Re:Any more sink-the-company ideas?

[spagetti_code]

First Best Buy was on Slashdot for allegedly abusive practices concerning rebates. Now this. Does Best Buy management have any more sink-the-company ideas?

Actually, this probably isn't sink-the-company stuff. Best Buy is not a company living on a reputation of excellent customer service. You don't go there for individual attention, for intelligent information about products, for the ability to barter or make deals. You go there for prices and selection. When you are a struggling or small company, service is important. When you are Best Buy/Walmart you want to ship product as fast as possible. The customer is almost irrelevant (as long as they keep buying).

Best quote (from memory) from Crossing The Chasm: "Ship as fast as you can and ignore the customer".

I realise that this is a marketing strategy more tailored towards individual products, but I think the concept holds.

Re:Any more sink-the-company ideas?

[winwar]

"Ship as fast as you can and ignore the customer".

Hey, I like it. Sounds like where I work (textbook distribution, there's a Hill in there somewhere.....) Remember, if it looks like it fell from 20 ft, it probably did....

Re:Any more sink-the-company ideas?

[dbIII]

If it were me, if I were the Best Buy CEO, I would be on the phone now, saying to the guy, "Can I personally deliver our top-of-the-line home theatre to your house in 30 minutes?

Now that is just silly - an apology from the person who stuffed up is cheaper and far, far more effective than some sort of bribe.

How sensationalized is the story?

[j1ggl3x]

I personally don't like Best Buy very much, but this story seems a little too sensationalized for me. I mean, granted there were a bunch of huge and stupid mistakes all around, but the in the story they paint the guy as some sort of "innocent citizen" saint and Best Buy as the devil. For all we know, the guy might have been acting like a complete jerk.

I he's 6'5, and told the cashier (after she seemed refused to take the $2 bills): "If you don't, I'm leaving. I've tried to pay my bill twice. You don't want these bills, you can sue me." In my mind, there are several different ways this can come out. He could've stated this politely, in which case I would totally side with him. On the other hand, this could have come out angrily. Imagine you're an 18 year old part-time cashier and some 6'5 guy is angrily telling you to take his $2 bills or he won't pay (which neither you nor your co-workers have ever seen). I'd be scared.

But with only one source reporting, it's hard to tell what really happened. I'll side with the guy and his $2 bills, but I'll take this with a grain of salt. Regardless, still seems like a PR nightmare for Best Buy. And you would think the police officer would know better...

Re:How sensationalized is the story?

[StarWreck]

There's not too much 'sensationalized' about the story. Here's a run down.

*Man Pays with $2 bills at Best Buy
*Cashier Calls Cops
*Cops Arrest Man

Technically, refusing a $2 bill is illegal. It says right on every bill printed by the US Gov't "Legal Tender" and "Non-Negotiable". Refusing a $2 bill in favor of more 'standard' currency, legally can void a contract. If the man offered to pay using any form of legal currency, even pennies, and they refused - then he is no longer obligated to pay the amount agreed to under the service contract.

Re:How sensationalized is the story?

[drbill28]

Actually only if he wasn't informed a store can have a policy to refuse $100 bills or whatever bills they want. Or say we don't accept denominations greater than $20 bills. You can refuse any kind of currency you want before the transaction happens. The Coinage Act does not apply to personal businesses and people. But since this was an outstanding debt, they had to take them. You have a right to pay off a debt with any currency you wish.

Re:How sensationalized is the story?

[surprise_audit]

Besides which, I'd be very surprised if the cashier is even *allowed* by store policy to call the police. Call a manager or store security, sure, but a lowly cashier involving the store in potentially costly callout of real cops?? I wouldn't think so, but then I've never had the misfortune of having to work at Best Buy.

Re:How sensationalized is the story?

[HexRei]

naturally, as a scared 18 year old clerk, the logical thing to do in such a situation is accuse the person scaring you of passing counterfeit bills.

Re:How sensationalized is the story?

[hunterx11]

If the man offered to pay using any form of legal currency, even pennies, and they refused - then he is no longer obligated to pay the amount agreed to under the service contract.

The U.S. Treasury disagrees.

Re:How sensationalized is the story?

[dangitman]

For all we know, the guy might have been acting like a complete jerk.

Isn't it every American's God-given right to act like a complete jerk? After all, that's how Best Buy runs their business. And how the cops behave. And how New Yorkers behave ... and Californians ... and Texans ... and Presidents.

Oh I feel a lawsuit coming...

[erroneus]

This makes me want to get an assload of $2 bills and visit BestBuy. And if they accept the money, I'll change my mind about the purchase and visit another store... there are plenty in my area. :)

This really sounds like great fun. And since I work for a newspaper, it's even better since it's virtually guaranteed to get news coverage. Muhahahah... oh this is such a tempting stunt.

You didn't know?!

[qewl]

If you've been keeping up at all with the terrorist politics, you'd know they only deal with two dollar bills! They had suitcases full of them in their sieged airplanes.

After all they do have Jefferson's face on them, IMHO our greatest president, and surely he would be incarcerated in today's U.S... And for more than cultivating masses of hemp.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jackb_guppy]

Now though the second phase of American Justice can kick in...

THE LAW SUIT.

This guy should now own the land that BEST BUY sits on and be paying him with $2 bills right back.

----
On another note: It is illegal to pay your bills in California with Legal Tender... many though it is the kind that clinks.

another version of article...
http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/ messages.cfm /forumid:5/threadid:16752

YRO?

[St. Arbirix]

"Your Rights Online" eh?

I'm just curious, is this article here because of the hardcore geekiness of requesting money in $2 bills, or is it on here because it's a chance to bash Best Buy?

Re:YRO?

[GnarlyNome]

I'm just curious, is this article here because of the hardcore geekiness of requesting money in $2 bills, or is it on here because it's a chance to bash Best Buy?
--
Both are good and sufficent reasons

9/11?!

[themoodykid]

Ha, the other day I was taking photographs of things in my neighbourhood on my lunch break. I was just snapping shots of random things and then decided to head back to work. On the way back, two officers approached me and asked for my ID and asked why was taking pictures of the police station. Turns out one of my shots happened to have the police station in the background. Anyway, I asked what the problem was and he said that they had to be extra vigilant in case of a *terrorist attack*. He then proceeded to write down notes on my facial features. He started questioning me about the other pictures I took, too. I stayed calm, but I was pissed off I was being treated like a criminal for doing nothing wrong.

You know the saddest thing of all? This is all took place in CANADA! I couldn't believe a police officer would be afraid of a terrorist attack on his police station in Canada.

Re:9/11?!

[Kohath]

Yeah, Canada is safe. You've got those huge oceans on either side of the country. They'll protect you.

Re:9/11?!

[wolf-]

Damn French Moose Terrorists.
First its the new signage in 2 languages, then its the attacks on police stations.

Wait, Canada you say?

Re:9/11?!

[blaksaga]

What would Bin Laden do to a Canadian police station? Rape the sheep? Canadian Mountee

Re:9/11?!

[Abcd1234]

Well, that and a foreign policy that's not focused on simultaneously pissing off as many nations in the world as possible.

Re:9/11?!

[incom]

It's not that they were afraid of a terrorist attack, it's that cops get their jollies from pulling that kinda shit, a real power trip yaknow?

Re:9/11?!

[Daemonik]

They'd rather just piss off the most powerfull nation in the world.

Re:9/11?!

[JasonBee]

What...you mean China??

Re:9/11?!

[noidentity]

On the way back, two officers approached me and asked for my ID and asked why was taking pictures of the police station. Turns out one of my shots happened to have the police station in the background. Anyway, I asked what the problem was and he said that they had to be extra vigilant in case of a *terrorist attack*.

Duh! You could have been a terrorist stealing people's souls with a camera! The officer just needed to be sure it was digital.

Re:9/11?!

[nfotxn]

Considered filing a complaint? You have the right to take pictures of everything and everyone if you are in a public place. Sounds like a cop with nothing to do and am exaggerated sense of self-importance.

Re:9/11?!

[saskboy]

A friend of mine in Ottawa had a friend accosted by the US Embasy staff, who insisted on having his film after he photographed the Embasy.

I photographed it several times successfully, but always at a good enough distance I guess.

I'm surprised this happened to you in Calgary, I'd have thought the police would have enough sense there not to act like cowboys themselves.

Re:9/11?!

[Dimensio]

Canada banned the bible?

No, but a bunch of screeching Christians like to pretend that they did (the law that they cite as "proof" has specific religious exceptions) because it feeds their persecution complex.

Re:9/11?!

[roju]

Not act like cowboys? The city's big stadium is the SADDLEDOME

Re:9/11?!

[issachar]

bunch of screeching Christians like to pretend that they did

That might be because the last time the government assured us that a new law wouldn't make someone compromise their religious principles that *promise* lasted only a couple of years.

If you want the details, it was when the government, (or was it just our unelected supreme court decided to add "Sexual Orientation" to the list of things you were not allowed to descriminate on the basis of that are listed in our Charter of Rights and Freedoms. (Well actually it was our unelected Supreme Court that decided to do this even though the people who'd written the Charter only a few years before had considered putting "Sexual Orientation" in the list and decided against it, but let's not get sidetracked).

This was all fine and good, but some people had concerns that their religious convictions against homosexual lifestyles would be made illegal. (For instance a religious school might get shut down for refusing to hire a man in a sexual relationship with another man). The architects of our new world order assured us this was merely our stupid redneck paranoia getting the best of us and that we shouldn't worry, because our betters would make sure that religious freedom was protected.

Some time later, a religious man in Toronto who owned a printing company was approached by an activist group wanting him to print their letter head, business cards etc. The man refused because he felt it violated his religious conscience to use his resources to aid an organization that promoted ideas contrary to his beliefs. Rather than go to another printer muttering something about ignorant dumbasses, (as some people might do if their business was refused), the group decided to make a human rights complaint. (Human rights commissions are not courts of law incidentally, but their decisions have the force of law). The man was fined $5000 and was told that he was not allowed to refuse orders like that.

A couple of other factors are interesting. This was in Toronto where there are many printers available, many of whom would have loved the business. It's not as if this action took away anyone's ability to actually get materials printed. Also, no one ever contested that the man did in fact serve gay customers and there was no suggestion that the man wouldn't serve people who were gay, merely that he wouldn't print materials promoting a homosexual lifestyle.

Now I know nothing about the situation other than what I've read, but I do have a personal connection to the next case. (Albeit a distant one).

A Christian man by the name of Chris Kempling teaches school in British Columbia. He wrote a letter to a local newspaper. (In fact he wrote one freelance column and six letters to the editor between 1997 and 2000). Dr. Kempler's views are so toxic that he addressed the UN on March 4th 2005 on the subject of Human Rights. The subject of of Dr. Kempler's letters were factual STD & promiscuity rates, that many religions consider homosexuality to be immoral, that it may be caused by negative psycho-social influences, and that it was nothing to be applauded. He did not express these views in the classroom, or in the staff room, but only in the editorial pages of the local newspaper. In 2002 he was suspended by the BC College of teachers. The suspension was upheld by the Supreme Court of British Columbia in last year.

My tenuous connection to this case is that a co-worker and friend of mine knows him personally and his father helped Dr. Kempler in his defence. (Unsuccesfully). The accounts I have heard is that Dr. Kempler is reasonable and does not descend to nasty behaviour. (Most certainly not a "redneck").

So I think you can see why

Re:9/11?!

[issachar]

you really don't understand the concept of Jihad as understood by wahabi's do you?

It's not that *every* Muslim wants to kill all the non-Muslims. They don't. But some do. And the lovely thing about technology is it makes it easier for a few people to create a *lot* of death. The wahabi's don't want to kill you because you did something to piss them off. They're pissed off and want to kill you because you're not a wahabi Muslim. They kill Muslims they don't agree with too.

Re:9/11?!

[Teclis]

Yes,

This is what I expect in Canada. You know, the low crime rates and all, the cops tend to get bored. They need something now and then to put some excitement into their day.

Re:9/11?!

[Ashe Tyrael]

Upsets people, yes. There is, however, a certain road you go down when you allow the excuse "my religion says I can be scummy at you, and nobody can interfere with my religion."

"My religion says I can shoot you in the head."

Re:9/11?!

[pommiekiwifruit]

I've seen hollywood films. Everyone knows that if you ignore the police like that, they will just shoot you in the back. Or is that just the LAPD?

Re:9/11?!

[issachar]

Certainly there a limits to all our rights. There's the old saying that my right to express myself by waving my arms ends at the end of your nose. There's no such thing as an unlimited right because all rights are limited by the corresponding rights of others.

I don't believe that one should "be scummy at" people. I take Christ's command to love very seriously. Loving does not mean that you can't expess an opinion about right and wrong or that you need to support things you disagree with.

I'm not saying everything about these cases is white lillies. For all I know the man in Toronto was a total jerk. Maybe he was rude. I don't know. My point is only that specific assurances were made that religious liberty would not be infringed, and shortly thereafter it was. Maybe it was a just infringement. (I don't think so, but maybe it was). The point is that assurances were made that they would not be infringed and they were.

So that's why people are suspicious of assurances like that.

Re:9/11?!

[themoodykid]

Hey, thanks for the info! Interestingly enough, after the incident I googled my rights and found out this very info on my own. So there was definitely a silver lining to the incident. Next time I am approached by police I will be better armed with knowledge of my rights. Also, I am spreading this info to others when I can so that we are all better informed.

Cheers.

Re:9/11?!

[RobertLTux]

If you really think it is, then consider that I firmly believe that sick wierdos who want to run other people's lives would be much better people with a bullet hole where their head used to be. You wouldn't want to curtail my religious freedom to *act* upon that belief, would you? -------------- Your rights end where my mass begins (depending on who exactly, my rights would include giving you the gun and/or ducking and running)

Re:9/11?!

[saskboy]

Correction the Pengrowth Saddledome ;-)

It'll always be just the Saddledome to me though.

Re:9/11?!

[Anonymous Coward]

You seem to have a very poor grasp of Canadian law and jurisprudence. You're linking issues that aren't even related in law. I sincerely suggest you read up on the law (BTW, all Canadian laws can be access online...) before commenting.

The print shop was not prosecuted under the Canadian Charter but under Ontario Human Rights Act. The courts deal exclusively on constitutional matters. The Ontario Human Rights Commission deal with teh province's own Human Rights Act which govern all business under provincial jurisdiction. The print shop's refusal to offer service is specifically prohibited by the Ontario Human Rights Act and that's the basis on which the Commission ruled. The Court didn't add anything to the law or read in new rights (since they weren't even involved). The Comission ruled based on the explicit language of the act. The print shop owner was wrong in every sense of the word under the Human Rights Act. There is no ambiguity.

The BC teacher case you mentioned is under the jurisdiction of the professional act for Teachers in BC. Again, another provinical piece of legislation independednt from the Charter. His charge was unprofessional conduct and discrimination as described by the provincial act (which does list out sexual orientation) by the professional body he voluntarily joined. As a professional myself (Engineer), your profession can and does hold you to a higher standard than that of a private citizen. If your public statements discredit your profession, that is more than enough grounds for the professional governing body (the College of Teachers in this case) to penalize you.

On a side note, it is starting to grate when people keep saying the courts are undemocratic because they don't rule based on popular opinion. Democarcy does not equal bending to the mob. Democracy implies that everyone is equal and equally protected under the law, i.e. affairs of state follow set rules and not the whims of people a.k.a. rule of law. The Courts will rule based on the laws written by an elected legislature and not by the latest opinion polls. The courts are there to protect the minority from the majority and not the other way around. There is something called the "tyrany of the majority", which seems to be what a lot of people advocate. When that happens, what we have is mob rule and not democracy. I suggest that you pick up a few law text books and understand the foundation of English Common Law. Your arguments would be heck of a lot more effective if you actually know what you're talking about.

Re:9/11?!

[issachar]

Of course the two events I brought up aren't directly related in law. I don't believe I ever claimed that they were. I brought them up as examples of events that cause some people to be suspicious when given assurances that their religious liberties would not be curtailed. They're obviously quite different. The fact that they're unrelated might well convince some people that they were not isolated events and were in fact examples of a wider trend.

You are quite correct that the print shop case was based on the Ontario Human Rights Act and not the Charter. I shouldn't have glossed over that information. Again, my point was not to argue at this time that the decision was unlawful or even unjust, I'm simply trying to point out how many people just don't trust assurances of religious liberty. It isn't because they're paranoid nutjobs. The Ontario Human Rights Act and the Charter are quite distinct legally, but the issue is the same both in that section of the OHRA and the judicially inserted section of the Charter. As a result, it just doesn't wash with many people if you try and say "but that was a totally different law". They see that their concerns about religious freedom were poo-pood, and then it turns out that their concerns were at least partly justified.

It's also of concern that the Charter specifically guarantees freedom of conscience and religion and that at the moment at least all law in Canada is subject to the Charter including the Ontario Human Rights Act. In theory at least the OHRA can say whatever it likes and if the Charter disagrees, the Charter trumps.

Again, I am well aware that Professional Associations can set their own standards. However these standards are subject to the Charter. This was deemed a legitimate infringement of religious freedom by the courts and that is what makes people suspicious when they are assured that their religious freedoms will not be infringed. It's not as if professional associations can enforce any behaviour they want. The BC Medical Association cannot require that all doctors refrain from expressing pro-life views. They simply require that they provide information about abortion services to patients when they're working. They're punished for writing pro-life pieces in the newspaper.

You seem to be stuck on defending the decisions that the courts came to. That was not the subject I was arguing. I'm simply suggesting that the lack of trust in government assurances has some basis in reality.

I have a good knowledge of Canadian law, government and it's roots in English Common law and French Civil law in Quebec. I see no reason to descend to insults. I'm not advocating mob rule or the end of the rule of law. Court rulings are not as simple as Courts ruling on the basis of laws enacted by the legislature. How do you interpret the Charter? On the strict literal interpretation of the words? By basing your decisions on the framers intentions? Or by interpreting the charter on the basis of evolving standards in society? Depending on your answer court decisions will be hugely different? (We don't use the first option or the second option in Canada, although both are legitimate ways of doing it based on our legal history).

The tyranny of the majority is a concern, but if you think about it how does our constitution protect us from it? The constitution was created by the majority. It can be changed to say absolutely anything by the majority. Doesn't the constitution just guarantee that laws aren't enacted in haste that compromise the principles that the majority agrees on?

Re:9/11?!

[issachar]

you shouldn't feed the trolls. :P

It's fairly obvious that Darby doesn't agree with "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it".

He also seems to be labouring under the delusion that Christians hate non-Christians and want to coerce them into becoming Christians. (Or at least he thinks I do). Silly rabbit...

Re:9/11?!

[taboo959]

Hmmm. You're not in Vancouver by any chace are ya?

If so, and your neighbourhod is around Main and 6th I can tell you exactly why it happened.....

Re:9/11?!

[taboo959]

Ahhh, NM. After reading further I realized you're in Calgary.

Hehe. Guess I should've dug deeper before posting. :)

Re:9/11?!

[Darby]

It's fairly obvious that Darby doesn't agree with "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it".

That is quite obviously not true.
I agree with that completely.

Your entire point was that by not allowing you to actively discriminate against a segment of the population for merely being themselves that your religious freedoms are being encroached.

This is completely insane, so I pointed that out.

He also seems to be labouring under the delusion that Christians hate non-Christians and want to coerce them into becoming Christians.

I said neither of these things.
What various people who call themselves Christian, but don't have the foggiest idea what it really means are doing is trying to force their repressive ideas down everybody else's throat at gunpoint.
This is again, a simple statement of fact.

Re:9/11?!

[issachar]

The reason I dimissed you as a troll, (although your post would more accurately be described as flamebait), is that rather than discuss the issue calmly you immediately launched a personal attack. Using your first sentence to call someone a "backwards ass nutjob" doesn't exactly signal you as someone with whom you can have a reasonable discussion.

You also didn't address my point. I was simply saying that suspicion of government assurances of nop infringement was reasonable if previous assurances had been quickly forgotten. It may have been quite reasonable to infringe on religious freedoms, but that doesn't change the fact that people will trust future assurances less. Whether breaking the assurance was legitimate, reasonable or just is completely beside the point.

And while you did not explicitely state that Christians hate non-Christians and want coerce others to become Christians your post most certainly did imply exactly that.

You can choose to hate non-Christians, and while they could choose to be Christian, you have no right to attempt to coerce them into it.

In any discussion you're responsible for the implications of your statements.

I do not hate non-Christians nor do I wish to force them to become Christians. You implied that I did. You are wrong.

I am also suspicious of your insistance that you agree with the statement "I disagree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it".

Chris Kempler's public statements are clearly objectionable to you. I take it you disagree strongly with what he said. That is your right and good for you for expressing your disagreement. I failed to notice the part of your post where you defended his right to make those statements that you disagreed with. Remember that those statements were made in a public forum and were never mentioned in his school. Not in the classroom and not in the staff room. Only in the editorial pages.

For the record, Chris Kempler discriminated against nobody. He simply expressed his disaproval of the behaviour of a group of people. Why are you not defending his right to express that disapproval. If someone expressed their disaproval of people of helping the homeless, I'd think he was a jerk, but I would defend his right to say that.

The print shop guy did descriminate. As I mentioned in my post he descriminated on the basis of the material he was asked to publish. (Not on the basis of the sexual orientation of his customers). The link I provided has this quote from the Ontario Divisional Court saying that Mr. Brockie held

"a sincere religious belief that homosexual conduct is sinful and, in furtherance of that belief, he must not assist in the dissemination of information intended to spread the acceptance of a gay or lesbian ('homosexual') lifestyle. Mr. Brockie draws a distinction between acting for customers who are homosexual and acting in furtherance of a homosexual lifestyle."

You may disagree with his beliefs and many people do, but your agreement or disagreement with him isn't the point.

Finally, I'm not trying to argue that there aren't people calling themselves Christians who are hypocritical or hurtful. I'm not so foolish as to try and defend everything anyone calling themselves a Christian says. But I do try to understand where everyone is coming from.

Re:9/11?!

[Skrybe]

Going way off topic here but what the hell! Firstly, I'm in Australia not the USA or even Canada. I got to work late one day only to find the building was being evacuated for a fire alarm (false alarm). Anyway, I couldn't see anyone I knew so I killed an hour then came back and could get in.

Once back in I asked where the rally point was in the event of an evacuation (only been in the build a couple weeks and no one had told me). At that point I get told "We don't have a rally point. Just leave the building and go find a cafe or something then come back in half an hour or so and see if the building is open again."

Apparently, they changed the evacuation procedures just in case terrorists decided to set off and alarm (or a device) and then have a second device waiting at the rally point. So now instead of everyone meeting up and knowing whether anyone is missing we all disperse for half an hour or maybe longer - all because someone thinks a terrorist may bomb the rally point.

Re:9/11?!

[Skrybe]

Another interesting off topic thread :) The whole "you have to serve someone" topic is something that grates on me. Flame me if you like but I believe that sort of law should only be applied to public services - by that I mean emergency services and utilities. If you run a little printing shop or a bar or a greengrocer you should be able to refuse to sell/provide a service to anyone.

Not allowing that is eroding the sellers liberties as surely as denying service erodes the liberties of the buyer. So effectively you're trading one form of discrimination for another. It's my biggest gripe against political correctness and anti-discrimination or affirmative action. It seems like almost every form of anti-discrimination ultimately just moves the focus of discrimination to a different person.

Re:9/11?!

[Darby]

You also didn't address my point. I was simply saying that suspicion of government assurances of nop infringement was reasonable if previous assurances had been quickly forgotten. It may have been quite reasonable to infringe on religious freedoms, but that doesn't change the fact that people will trust future assurances less. Whether breaking the assurance was legitimate, reasonable or just is completely beside the point.

The point is that it is in no way an infringement of any sort of freedom to say that you don't have the right to infringe freedoms.
There's no need for any assurance. You do not under any circumstances have those rights.
End of story.

And while you did not explicitely state that Christians hate non-Christians and want coerce others to become Christians your post most certainly did imply exactly that.

You can choose to hate non-Christians, and while they could choose to be Christian, you have no right to attempt to coerce them into it.


I in no way implied what you are saying.

The point I made is that you have the right to have your religious beliefs, and to express them.

It just so happens that most of the beliefs that the fundies in America like to express are the ones based in ignorant hatred which go completely against the religion that they claim to believe.

These aren't Christian beliefs, and these aren't Christian people, but they are who are under discussion.


In any discussion you're responsible for the implications of your statements.


True, but you are responsible for your own inferences.

I do not hate non-Christians nor do I wish to force them to become Christians. You implied that I did. You are wrong.

No, I didn't.
Are you a sicko wack job who thinks that people should be banned from aspects of society because they are acting in the way god made them and that causes no harm whatsoever to others?

If so, then I am talking about you, I am right, and you are not a Christian.

If not, then I'm not talking about you.

I failed to notice the part of your post where you defended his right to make those statements that you disagreed with

So, where did you notice me trying to have him arrested for saying it.

I was merely exercising my right to point out the simple fact that he is an idiotic ass hat whose ideas are not even worth expressing.
I have no interest in preventing him from saying whatever he wants, but I think it's important to point out that what he is saying is utterly insane and completely at odds with what he claims to believe.

I'm surprised that you fail to see the difference.

I'm not so foolish as to try and defend everything anyone calling themselves a Christian says. But I do try to understand where everyone is coming from.

As do I.

The simple fact is that he is coming from a position of pure unadulterated ignorance and hatred.

Don't you think that if there were any other possible explanation that somebody would have mentioned it at some point in the whole gay marriage debate in America?
There isn't a single point anybody has made other than "We need to defend the sanctity of marriage".
No mention of what is attacking it or how.

Re:9/11?!

[issachar]

All rights infringe on other rights. You're getting dismissing the distinction between "no infringement" and "legitimate infringment". There are two issues here. One: Was the assurance that the government gave religious groups (that their religious liberties wouldn't be affected by the change), honoured. Answer: No. TwoWas not honouring the assurance the right thing to do? You're arguing the second question exclusively. Answering Yes to the second question doesn't change the answer to the first. I was merely pointing out that the first question was the reason some people were suspicious of the government on some issues.

Perhaps I was mistaken about the implications of your statements. I'll leave the judgement of that to other readers.

You seem quite convinced that those men are rooting their beliefs in hatred. I don't know those men personally so I can't comment on their emotions, and I don't know how to respond to you except to tell you that if you're generalizing that belief to me or to self-professed Christians that I know who believe that homosexual behaviour is immoral then you are wrong. I know can't say anything to convince you otherwise if you won't believe my assurance that I don't hate gay people. But there it is.

One thing that might shed some light is to give a comparison. I believe that homosexual behaviour is immoral. I also believe that having sexual relations with anyone except your spouse (whether pre-marital or otherwise) is immoral. I don't hate people who have sex outside of marriage. Neither do I hate gays. My feelings are the same to both groups of people. I believe they're making an immoral choice. This doesn't mean I hate them because everyone (including me obviously) has sinned. That's all I can say to that point.

I do believe that it was wrong to penalize Chris Kempler and I believe that you should agree. You didn't say that Dr. Kempler should be arrested, but you seem to think it's perfectly reasonable to bar him from teaching because of views he expressed outside the school system. Had he been preaching his views in the classroom that would have been different. But that's not what happened.

You're also continuing in the personal attacks. If your response to this continues in the same vein, I won't participate anymore. So if you want to "win" by having the last word, you know what to do.

Re:9/11?!

[issachar]

hey at least the editors don't seem to be using the not using the bitchslap tool anymore. I got caught in the most famous incident of that. I'm paroled now though. :P

I think you also have to include local monopolies in your exception. The situation is different if by refusing your service you effectively denied any service to a person. For example if you were the only printer available in the area or if you were a monopoly.

I'm not sure I agree with letting people refuse service because of who a person is. For example I'd say that not letting gay people visit your theatre just because they're gay is wrong. Refusing to print an advertisement for a pro-life group in your newspaper seems legitimate though. (As long as you're doing it because you don't want to support any non pro-choice position not because the group is a religious group).

Re:9/11?!

[issachar]

the comment moderation has vanished on that bitchslapped post. At some point I think it had a few hundred moderations.

Re:9/11?!

[Darby]

There are two issues here.
One:...
Two...


Well, I think what happened was that we were arguing different ideas.

...if you're generalizing that belief to me or to self-professed Christians that I know who believe that homosexual behaviour is immoral then you are wrong.

Believe what you will. I have no issue with that whatsoever.
Find anything as moral or immoral as you like, and more power to you.

My issue is with those who actively work to shove their idea of morality down my throat at gunpoint.

If that's not you, then I don't think I've said anything negative about you.

As far as Chris Kempler goes, his views sound pretty scary to allow in a public school funded by some of the very people he seems to despise.

Re:9/11?!

[issachar]

sorry for the slow reply.

I don't think were discussing anyone shoving their ideas down your throat. Neither the print shop guy or Dr. Kempler were imposing their views on anyone. Dr. Kempler was expressing his in a public forum and the other guy was simply refusing to promote someone else's views. He notably was not refusing service to people because they were gay, merely because of the content of their message. I see no reason why Xtra West

In regards to Chris Kempler why do the content of his views matter? So they're "scary". Why does that make any difference as to whether or not he should be allowed to express his views in a newspaper? As I said before, it would have been different if he'd been expressing them in school because in that context he's charged with educating minors and has a position of authority as a teacher. But he did not abuse his position or promote his views in the classroom. If a teacher wrote a letter to the editor saying that God doesn't exist and religious people are blind stupid fools or that Mohammed was the last true prophet and that non-Muslims should be subject to Islamic law that teacher should not be sanctioned by his school. I strongly disagree with those views, but people should be allowed to express them publicly.

Do you really not agree?

Re:9/11?!

[corsican]

Listen here, you moron; GAY PEOPLE ARE NOT BORN THAT WAY, YOU PSEUDO-SCIENTIFIC ASS-CRACKER. No evidence - repeat, NO EVIDENCE - exists to support this bit of wishful thinking. The few studies that claimed to find a physical link (run by gay researchers, I might add) have been thoroughly raked over the coals for being unscientific.

And you're wrong about something else too; I DO have the right to tell people how to live, just as they have the right to not listen. Furthermore, if I run a print shop, I have the right to not print anything I don't want to print. It's my freakin' print shop. What if I were a Jew, and the American Nazi party came in and wanted me to print giant swastikas on big poster-sized cardstock? Are you saying I'd have to do it because I can't tell them how to live? What a fucking joke.

Refusing to print letterhead for a gay organization because I happen to believe that the gay lifestyle is a perversion is my right. If it was a print shop run by faggots that refused to print a man and a woman walking hand-in-hand along the shore, there would have been absolutely nothing-NOTHING-done about it.

And I can't even make sense out of this mish-mash:

The best they could do to satisfy your sickening desire to force them into your idea of what a person should be is to not live their lives like people do.

So a gay man can't live if he can't suck dick? That what it sounds like you are saying.

I can choose to hate you because you are an idiot. You can choose to not be an idiot, though.

Question

[LucBorg]

I just don't understand why authorities didn't simply call his bank and ask them to verify that they did actually print these $2 bills for him specially, and that they were legal. Seems a bit stupid to just assume the worst, ignore the guy's story, and just throw him in jail!

Re:Question

[surprise_audit]

The bank doesn't print them, but they do supply them. And a call to any random bank should have confirmed that the $2 bills are legal.

How about a mass protest?

[WarmBoota]

I suggest that concerned Slashdotter's everywhere protest this by stocking up on $2 bills. On a chosen day (how about a new-release Tuesday?), each individual should attempt to purchase an agreed upon CD (perhaps Britney Spears) and pay for it with the $2 bills.

If the purchase actually succeeds, the purchaser should immediately go to the return desk and return the CD unopened for cash. Consider this a bonus protest against the RIAA.

Re:How about a mass protest?

[Teancum]

Actually, this is a commonly used practice in many ways.

I know of a local labor union that had all of its members cash their paychecks with $2 bills, and encouraged its members to make purchases using them as a way to let the local retailers know how significant the local union membership was to the community.

It was a relatively benign way to show the strength of its membership without having to do more silly things like go on strike or hold a protest, and it also garnered quite a bit of positive PR for both the union involved and the companies that they worked for. And more importantly, it put the merchants themselves quite solidly as supporters of the union, and some efforts that were being done politically to help keep the industry going (they were steelworkers).

Re:How about a mass protest?

[dominion]

without having to do more silly things like go on strike or hold a protest

Not a bad PR tactic, but this line is pretty immature. When negotiations fail, a strike is ultimately the only bargaining chip a union has. If you can't withdraw your labor, what can you do, other than beg?

Re:How about a mass protest?

[Teancum]

If you want to stage a strike, it is critically important for the labor union to get popular support from the community itself for the strike as well. When merchants, ordinary citizens, school teachers, and others in the community (including the police) feel that the labor union has somehow been wronged as well, the strike is much more likely to succeed.

If the labor union is perceived as a bunch of money grubbing lazy idiots, or worse a bunch of radical communist thugs bend on public mayhem, violence, and distruction, the strike is likely to end in a very ugly manner and usually not too good for the labor union.

The point here is that a labor union can do some other things to point out how much of an impact their membership has in the community, and a simple $2 bill "demonstration" certainly is a good way to do this.

Re:How about a mass protest?

[silverpie]

Our local NAACP does something like this once a year for similar reasons--they call it "Black Dollar Day."

Wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

I work at Best Buy. We do not track people who return defective items or mail off rebates (we especially could care less about rebates since we do not handle those, those are the responsibility of the manufacturer).

If you make an excessive number of returns, yes, you will be flagged in the system. We know that things break and that sometimes that you may even just not like what you have bought and give you the courtesy of returning your item with not many questions asked. However, no normal person who returns items that are defective or occasionaly buys things they do not like and returns them (note on "occasionaly") will get flagged. We have tuned the system and looked at people we know who are trouble makers and worked the system around that.

If you knew of a guy passing bad checks, wouldn't you want to inform others about that person? This is no different, we want to make sure that all our other stores know about people who are making excessive returns that look mighty suspicious.

Re:Wrong

[djmurdoch]

I work at Best Buy. We do not track people ...

But I notice you don't deny giving Canadian quarters in change...

Re:Wrong

[Forthan Red]

I work at Best Buy. We do not track people who return defective items[...] If you make an excessive number of returns, yes, you will be flagged in the system. Wow! When you drank the kool-aide, you must have asked for the Big Gulp size.

Customer Abuse Counter

[Doc Ruby]

The cops who arrested this guy should be fired. And the cops who are responsible for their training should probably be fired, or at least demoted and retrained. Jailing someone for using legal currency? Which is worth more than its face value to collectors? That is a crime. To say nothing of the fool behind the counter, who should be beaten by a gang of retrained cops for wasting all our time.

Oh that's been the case for a long time

[Sycraft-fu]

The US has had $2 bills for ever. They are current currency and are printed by the treasury. You can go to your bank and buy them. However, they've just never been very popular for some reason. I don't know why, two dollar bills were always popular in Canada and now with the damn $2 coins it's easy to get a pound of pocket change. However it just never caught on in the US.

Because of this, there are plenty of people that don't know about them. They see them, and think thye are a joke, like the $3 GWB bills that some joke stores were selling. Now if you examine the bill, it becomes quite apparant it's genuine (I mean who would go through that much trouble to make a fake low dollar bill?) but they don't. Others believe it was long ago discontinued and is no longer legal tender.

So it's nothing new, I had a friend get refused at Taco Bell by a clerk, however the manager had more sense and took the money. Having the police called over it, that's unique though.

Re:Oh that's been the case for a long time

[Teancum]

However, they've just never been very popular for some reason. I don't know why, two dollar bills were always popular in Canada and now with the damn $2 coins it's easy to get a pound of pocket change. However it just never caught on in the US.

The #1 problem U.S. merchants have with $2 bills (and $1 coins... its the same problem) is that the "standard" cash register doesn't have a slot to hold the currency or coin denominations.

Quarters were relatively rare prior to the 1960's, but during a Christmas shopping season in the mid 1960's the U.S. Mint ran out of half dollars and most merchants switched to quarters instead. By habit this has stuck around and now quarter dollars are the "typical" change item handed out by cashiers.

If you are in the USA and pay with a $2 bill or a $1 coin, look where the (clueful) cashiers put the money: It usually goes to the back of the drawer or underneath with the checks. The same with large denominations (like $100 bills, etc.)

If the U.S. Federal government was serious about pushing $2 bills or the $1 coins, they would also make a law forcing merchants to get larger cash drawers with slots for those denominations. As it is, few merchants really care, and the cash register companies aren't going to even offer them unless you pay a premium price for the "expanded" trays.

Re:Oh that's been the case for a long time

[hesiod]

> hey would also make a law forcing merchants to get larger cash drawers with slots for those denominations.

I don't believe that is accurate. Merchants don't have to have any drawer at all. They can keep all their register money in their pocket, as long as no one gets ripped off.

Re:Legal tender

[damiam]

True, but you don't actually owe a debt to Taco Bell until they physically give you your food. Up until that point, they can refuse any currency they like.

Re:Um dear /. crowd

[djmurdoch]

Not entirely true. You must accept it for DEBTS. You do not have to accept it for products and services yet to be rendered. In this case, they are not obligated to accept it.

This was a case where the customer had something installed, and after the fact Best Buy decided to charge him for installation. It was a debt.

And now a word from our sponsors...

[coolgeek]

This article brought to you by the creators of Toothing

Re:I call shenanigans!!!

[man_of_mr_e]

The Taco Bell story isn't a myth. The source of the story is known (as cited in the Snopes article), and he claims it's true (And I believe him, since I know him and it's entirely the kind of trouble he would stir up.

While it can't be proven that it actually happened, we do know the source, so it's not a myth.

Link to original story, with more bandwidth, too.

[Futurepower(R)]

Original story: A tale of customer service, justice and currency as funny as a $2 bill.

Where does it go in the drawer?!?

[MS_leases_my_soul]

I work for a bank and will ask for $2 if I see the tellers have them. I am "the computer guy" so they think I am weird anyway. I love to pay with them just to watch the cashier's face when they try to figure out where to put it in the cash drawer. Now that it has a chance to get me falsely arrested so that I can settle out of court for a couple of mil, I will have to pay with them all the time! Heck, I will be up half the night just trying to think of stores this dumb!

Look

[Flower]

As long as that cashier gets sufficiently cowed into submission and is willing to accept my $3 bills I say let bygones be bygones.

Re:Um dear /. crowd

[notasheep]

Yeah, great point. But what does that have to do with the whole "being arrested" thing because folks thought they were counterfeit?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[kfg]

I haven't been arrested for it, but I did once have a cashier refuse to take a two until her manager told her it was ok.

"I don't know what makes for a good wrongful arrest suit. . ."

Being wrongfully arrested will do it, especially on the unsubstantiated complaint of an individual. He's got a good case if he really wants to be a prick to Best Buy, and who wouldn't want that?

The police/DA/judge fucked up big time too, as there obviously wasn't suffcient evidence to generate a legitimate warrant on a conterfeiting charge, like, possession of a bill deemed to be counterfeit by an expert and alleged to have been passed by the guy, and since the guy apparently was not apprehended in the act (no, I haven't read the article), a warrant should have been necessary.

If he were apprehended in the act, the converstaion should have gone something like this:

"Officer, he's trying to give me two dollar bills!"

"Yeah. So? What are you, some kind of moron?"

Unless, of course, the officer was some kind of moron.

Of course, thanks to the city of New London, CT the public should be more aware that they are often tested for that before being allowed to join the force (over intelligence is deemed to create job dissatisfaction with the role of police officer, or at least that's how they like to explain it these days. In the old days they were more honest in admiting that they wished police to function as automatons).

KFG

Re:MALICIOUS PROSECUTION

[Locke2005]

Uh, I think you mean "False arrest". They never prosecuted the guy; a malicious prosecution suit would be against the District Attorney.

Re:Age old excuse

[duffbeer703]

Many organized criminals use $2 bills, since they are very common at racetracks, and you know that mobsters and terrorists are big fans of the races.

In this post-911 world, sometimes you need to go overboard! This guy could easily have been another Mohammed Atta.

mod parent down, ripping off story

[Elminst]

http://www.snopes.com/humor/business/tacobell.htm

TerrorDome

[Doc Ruby]

Wait a minute - that's not a real $2 bill you're passing off there - it's made of pixels! It's a JPG! You're distributing counterfeit currency, and the tools to make more, on the Internet! Please report to your nearest airport for your flight to Guantanamo.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Toresica]

I saw someone ahead of me try and pay part of their bill with a 50 cent piece, and the cashier handed it back saying "We don't take Canadian money".

We don't even have 50 cent pieces up here... :p

Due Process

[DigiShaman]

WTF ever happened to due process?! I fully expect and demand the police department be nailed to the wall on this along with the city/county.

Best Buy is employee by a bunch of douche-bags no doubt. But for the police to arrest someone without looking over the evidence is really going over the edge and grinds against his constitutional rights.

What the police should have done is double check the bills the next day. If they were counterfit, then an arrest warrent could be issued by a judge. That would be the CORRECT way of going about this.

Re:Due Process

[fm6]

Cops don't need a warrant to respond to a complaint. Imagine the chaos if they did!

I'm tempted to correct your definition of "due process", but we'd just get hung up in legal terminology neither of us is qualified to debate. Suffice to say that law enforcement would not be practical if cops weren't allowed to exercise a certain amount of judgment. Which means that inevitably some cops will exercise bad judgment. Not good, but judges aren't immune to bad judgment either.

Re:Due Process

[DigiShaman]

So, the correct way to catch a counterfitter is to tell him that we think his money is bad, but stick in town because we MIGHT want to arrest you in the morning. I'm sure all the proper law abiding counterfitters will all be sure to heed the polices advice.


This is pure insanity! Talk about the abuse of power.


Fine, if that's the way you would like it. Next time you come walking in a store, I will cry counterfiter knowing full well that that you would be spending some jail time over night. And as for me, I get off scott free and plead ignorance.


There you have it. I would just the justice system LEGALLY to fuck with you and give you some hell. Heh, might even cost you your job as you would not show up the next morning.
Best part is though, you cannot prove this was my little scam the entire time.

Re:Due Process

[the quick brown fox]

Take it easy. There is such a thing as probable cause.

Re:Due Process

[Mr. Slippery]

Cops don't need a warrant to respond to a complaint. Imagine the chaos if they did!

No, but for an arrest they need specific and articulable facts indicating a substantial possibility that criminal conduct has occurred. "I had a hunch" is not sufficient grounds to an arrest.

Re:Due Process

[fm6]

True. But this is way beyond "I had a hunch". The fact that the guy was passing counterfeit bills was "obvious" to everybody in sight.

Re:Due Process

[MoneyT]

How was his due process violated? He was temporarily detained, on suspicion of commiting a crime. An expert as to the nature of the specifics of the crime was brought in to confirm the possibility that a crim had been comited. The expert said no, and he was released.

Re:Due Process

[AstroDrabb]

Cops don't need a warrant to respond to a complaint.

No, cops do not need a warrant to just respond. However cops do need more than just one witnesses hearsay to make an arrest. Cops need a little more proof to arrest someone. Imagine if cops could go out and arrest someone on just one witness. I call the cops and tell them I just saw fm6 smoking pot, go and arrest him/her. I later call the cops and say I just saw fm6 speeding, go and arrest him/her. A little later, I call the cops and tell them that fm6 just stole $1,000 from me, go and arrest him/her., etc, etc.

Do you see where I am going. Cops could never be allowed to arrest someone just on one persons story. If they could, the road would be a much better place to drive. Heck, I would call the cops on any one that I thought was driving reckless and get them arrested.

There was actually a time when my wife was out driving in the new min-van I bought here with our first new born child. She was driving _really_ cautiously. Some @ss cuts her off. She calls me frantically and tells me she is going to call the cops and hangs up on me. I wanted to tell here it would do no good, however she didn't even give me the chance. She called the cops and gave them the license plate number of the @ss and told the cops what happened. The cops told her there was nothing they could do since the act was not committed in the presence of an officer.

I would be really scared if cops in the USA were allowed to just arrest people on just the "testimony" of one person. Please don't tell me this has happened any where!

Re:Due Process

[Methuseus]

A hunch can be enough to take someone in on, but not always. And it's never enough to keep them in lockup for more than an hour or so that it takes to do all the filing of paperwork.

At least that's what they teach on cop shows. Which probably invalidates all this evidence, but oh well.

Re:Due Process

[Undertaker43017]

While I agree that "due process" may not have been violated, he certainly didn't need to be hand cuffed to a pole while the "expert" verfied if a crime had been committed!!! Seems like an over zealous cop(s) to me.

Re:Due Process

[AvitarX]

Funny,
in New Jersy they have all sorts of signs saying to call and report aggressive drivers.

I was always confused as to what they would do, but they want you to do it.

Re:Due Process

[georgewilliamherbert]

How was his due process violated? He was temporarily detained, on suspicion of commiting a crime. An expert as to the nature of the specifics of the crime was brought in to confirm the possibility that a crim had been comited. The expert said no, and he was released.

I am Not a Lawyer; however...

It wasn't a due process violation, as far as I can see. The police officer was on scene, looked at things, and concluded the same as the cashier (and presumably the store manager) that the bills were somehow counterfeit. It's not a due process violation if an officer arrests you mistakenly.

However, depending on the circumstances, it could constitute false arrest, which is a crime (felony in some states) and almost certainly is the legitimate subject of a lawsuit against the police and the store.

A lot of details to determine what happened are missing here. Did the officer arrest him thinking that there was no $2 bill? That would constitute false arrest, as a reasonable person should have known that $2 bills are real. Did the officer arrest him thinking that they were simply counterfeit $2 bills, but understood that the $2 bill existed and was legal tender? That would simply be an honest mistake in judgement. Still something the arrestee can sue over, but not gross neglegence on the part of the officer.

Until someone finds out and posts those details... who knows.

Re:Due Process

[Chanc_Gorkon]

This was not so much of a due process problem as much as it was a illegal imprisonment by the retail establishment. I do believe if they have evidence they can detain them, but in this case not only was management stupid, but the cashier and the stores detectives also were at fault. I bet they did not even use a special pen on the bill. The officers also should have used some more police work on the bills once they got there before carting the guy off to jail.

Re:Due Process

[AstroDrabb]

Funny, I grew up in NJ until I was 13 then I moved across the "Trenton Makes the World Takes" bridge to Yardley, PA. I lived in Yardley, PA until about 5 years ago (I am now 32) when I met my wife who is from Cherry Hill, NJ. We got married and moved down here to Orlando, FL. I do miss NJ and PA. Although I don't recall the signs you are talking about, I _do_ remember seeing tons of cops in NJ and PA who would pull your @ss over in a heart-beat. Down here in Orlando, FL I _never_ see cops or state troopers going to work. People can go 95 MPH on a 60 MPH road and just don't have to worry about tickets. While I don't miss the cold and snow, I do miss the tough-@ss cops of NJ and PA. I wish we had them down here to smack around some of these idiot drivers.

Best of luck!

Re:Due Process

[ReTay]

To a point you are right. The police do have a degree of protection for being stupid. However before you say that a cop need not worry about being held responsible for arresting someone for something stupid, remember what happened to the cop that arrested someone for brewing beer in his own home. At the time beer brewing was not common. They got a report that someone was growing pot in his home. They did a no knock entry pined him on the ground and tore his house apart. At first I was wondering why he was laughing. It seemed to get the cops mad. Then they showed the "pot" plants in close up in the camera. They were hop plants. His setup looked expensive. The cop shoved one in his face and said something bright like "we got you now". Or something like that and the guy about pissed his pants. The last clip from the "bust" was a cop carrying out a 5gal carboy saying he could have made someone go blind with this.... The poor guy that got arrested is not so poor now. And the CO tax payer ended up giving him a fortune. All because a cop thought a still was a 5 gallon carboy with an air lock on it.

So yes the guy can sue and he would probably win.

Re:Due Process

[stfvon007]

If they are getting the same licence plate over and over though by multiple people, then they have somthing to go on. They wont act on a single incident, but when you have 100 or so seperate ones by the same licence plate, then they have somthing to go on.

Re:Due Process

[EvanED]

No, cops do not need a warrant to just respond. However cops do need more than just one witnesses hearsay to make an arrest. Cops need a little more proof to arrest someone.

We'll get to this statement in a moment in general, but in this case, they had more. They had the bills. With smearing ink. Whether this is probably cause is probably debatable (and them locking him up is absurd), but it's a lot more than just a hunch and a lot more than not knowing that $2 bills exist.

I would be really scared if cops in the USA were allowed to just arrest people on just the "testimony" of one person. Please don't tell me this has happened any where!

They are allowed to. You can get warrants based off of one person's statement. I don't know the situations under which this statement must be obtained though. Remember that filing a false report or interfering with an investigation are crimes, so if you falsely accuse someone you can go to jail.

Re:Due Process

[belmolis]

The police won't arrest someone or issue a ticket for a traffic violation that they haven't witnessed themselves, but at least in some jurisdictions if they get a credible report they will send a letter to the owner of the vehicle. Also, if the problem isn't just a one-off but something like someone driving wildly they will send a patrol car to check it out. I once pulled over and reported someone who was veering from one side of the road to the other to the RCMP. When I got home I found a message on my answering machine to the effect that they had pulled the guy over. It turned out that he wasn't drunk, just very sleepy, so they got him to check in to a motel.

Re:Due Process

[AvitarX]

You may have missed it.

They did it on the Turnpike (or maybe 295) when they upped the speed limit to 65.

And yes, for a while they would pull you over for going 2 over, but now as long as you don't weave you are safe (YMMV)

Re:Due Process

[Dr.Zap]

There was acually a time when my wife was out driving in the new min-van I bought her with our first new born child.

What country uses children for currency?

It's been happening for a long time already

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

When I first arrived in the US I bought some stamps from a vending machine at the post office. It gave me change in the form of dollar coins. I couldn't spend them. People repeatedly told me that they'd never seen them before and couldn't accept them. When I found someone who would accept them they said "you shouldn't spend those, they're worth something". They came out of a vending machine. They're worth exactly what it says on them. I couldn't believe that I, a mere foreigner, seemed to know more about the local currency than the locals.

Re:It's been happening for a long time already

[fm6]

As a "mere foreigner" you have an unfair advantage -- you haven't had a chance to absorb the folklore that "everybody knows".

Re:It's been happening for a long time already

[exp(pi*sqrt(163))]

I have to admit, as I mentioned earlier, I did have a little training before arriving.

Re:It's been happening for a long time already

[SydShamino]

I had a bunch of those once. I managed to get rid of them by finding people who, like you saw, thought they were "worth something." I sold them all for $1.50 each. Heheheh

Re:It's been happening for a long time already

[Ark42]

Pretty much all stamp machines give dollar coins as change. Every Meijer store seems to have a stamp machine in it, and they all do the same thing. Insert a $20, buy a book of stamps, and it spits out 12 $1 coins, along with 2 quaters and a dime. I havn't really found it ever hard to spend the coins when you can give them to people, but I hate that other machines (candy, pop, toll booths, etc) never accept them.

Re:It's been happening for a long time already

[freidog]

just take them down to any local bank where you can exchange them for real dollars.

Re:It's been happening for a long time already

[gricholson75]

Ha, that happened to me once too. I keep them until the next time I need to go to the post office and gave them back to them. Only place I could find that would take them.

Re:It's been happening for a long time already

[Delta Vel]

I was 15 or 16 and a cashier in a grocery store when the new $20 bill came out. This lady gives me this crisp new bill with some parts blown up like that lens screensaver and I looked at her like, "You're kidding, right?" She said, "It's the new $20."

I never paid much attention to the news or anything, so I hadn't heard. I took it up to the office and they said it was real.

She didn't get arrested.

I did have a guy give me a $3 bill as a joke once. I can't remember who was on it (might not have been a president) but he was sticking out his tongue. I did a double take, the guy laughed and gave me real money instead.

He didn't get arrested.

Neither did the guy who handed me a piece of paper that looked like a folded dollar bill.

I wouldn't say cashiers get weird bills all the time, but there are plenty of people who like to mess with them like that. I'm not saying it's excusable, but you get suspicious after a while...

Re:It's been happening for a long time already

[Chanc_Gorkon]

Every vending machine in my town accepts them. Time to find some updated vending companies....

Re:It's been happening for a long time already

[saskboy]

In 2003 I got some $1 Sacagewea coins from the USPS post office stamp machine, on purpose. I didn't need to mail anything, but it was the perfect way to satisfy my coin and stamp collecting hobby, and they are very portable souvenirs of a journey to a far away land.

Re:It's been happening for a long time already

[winwar]

Actually that's a very insightful comment.

I have coworkers that say things all the time believing them to be true (it's a legal requirement for companies to do this or that, gas is high because of X, etc.) Probably because it has become "folklore". When I try to verify these things, I find no info or that they are wrong (well, I already knew they probably were, but heck, I might learn something....) But that doesn't change what they KNOW TO BE TRUE.

Re:It's been happening for a long time already

[Megane]

and they are very portable souvenirs of a journey to a far away land.

What far away land would that be? Redmond?

I use 'em for tips. But any Susan B's immediately go back into the post office vending machines, to buy regular lickable stamps.

Re:It's been happening for a long time already

[nmx]

I was 15 or 16 and a cashier in a grocery store when the new $20 bill came out. This lady gives me this crisp new bill with some parts blown up like that lens screensaver and I looked at her like, "You're kidding, right?" She said, "It's the new $20."

That story is a little fishy. I was working at a convenience store when those came out, and there were signs all over the place (in the break room, by the registers, etc.) showing the new $20 and its security features. You're saying your employer never once mentioned the new bill?

Re:It's been happening for a long time already

[Delta Vel]

No, they didn't, or maybe I didn't notice if they put up a sign. I was kind of oblivious back then. But it was a mom-and-pop grocery store, not a major chain.

Points Too Frequently Over-looked or Unmentioned?

[YITBOS]

Two reasons for the arrest that go highly unmentioned are the fact that the 2-dollar bills were SEQUENTIAL and the INK ON THE BILLS WERE SMEARING...

I know that I would be highly suspicious if somebody tried to pay me with a large amount of a RARE currency, with serial numbers that were SEQUENTIAL, and occasionally the ink smeared when touched.

Regardless of all that, however, it would seem that the matter was dealt with completely irrationally and inappropriately.

But then again, there are always two sides to every story, so who knows what the "innocent victim" is "forgetting."

Re:REAL money

[MoralHazard]

"technically correct"? Where in the hell do you get THAT from?!? The guy was accused of using COUNTERFEIT money. What's the definition of counterfeit, now?

The US government issues cash currency. They have laws that say "you're not allowed to try to pass off anything but actual, gov't printed bills as being such." There are lots of specifics to the counterfeiting laws that tell us exactly what it means to try to pass something off like that, if you care to find out. Counterfeit ONLY means that you're passing something off as US-printed money that didn't originate in the usual fashion from the Bureau of Engraving and Printing.

Counterfeiting has nothing to do with the concept of "legal tender", either. Legal tender has to do with what kind of payment of debts you can force on other people. If you owe someone a debt, they *might* accept payment in the form of gold, silver, your used '92 Ford Escort, or cattle... but they HAVE to accept payment in US currency.

Even if the government were to print so much money (or devalue the currency by other means) so as to make dollars essentially worthless for private debt, that doesn't change counterfeiting laws. I'm assuming that currency devaluation is what your particular species of nutjob is worried about, BTW.

***OFFTOPIC RANTING***

Is this all a good idea? Most modern governments seem to think so. Being as gold- or silver-backed currency only has value by mutual agreement, anyway, it probably doesn't matter. The only difference is that it's harder to inflate a currency when it's backed by precious metals... but that doesn't mean it's not possible to do so.

Look at what happened to Europe in the 1500-1600s when massive amounts of new gold bullion came back across the Atlantic from South America. Massive inflation. What would happen if we started mining asteroids, finding enormous amounts of gold, and bringing it back to Earth? Massive inflation. What would happen if huge new gold mines were discovered in an easy-to-access fashion? Same thing. No currency can be fully inflation-proof unless there is actually, without exception, no way to increase the amount of it.

Not that governments don't occasionally bring down a currency and ruin a lot of people by letting inflation run wild, but fiat currency has enough other advantages (the modern banking system, for one) that most informed commentators consider it an acceptable danger.

Sorry for the lesson in modern currency concepts--back to your regularly scheduled Slashdot.

50 Cent with the Northern Touch

[Pinkoir]

We don't even have 50 cent pieces up here... :p

Actually we do...they just happen to be as uncommon up here as they are in the States

-Pinkoir

Re:50 Cent with the Northern Touch

[zakezuke]

Actually we do...they just happen to be as uncommon up here as they are in the States

They seem to be slightly less rare than your $1.00 and $2.00 bills, but i've seen them.

I know I get hassled when I use $1.00/$2.00 Canadian bills in Canada.

Clerk "Where did you get these"
Me "Expo 87"
Clerk "But they say 86 on them"
Me "I imagine they were printed before Expo 87"
Clerk "Why do you have so many"
Me "Well, we can't spend your currency in america, I went with my class and I collected the left over currency from all my classmates, today I bring it back".
[a short time passes as they consult their book to see if it even looks like legal tender]
Clerk "Where do you expect me to put this?"
Me "Under the drawer where you keep your larger bills".

Re:50 Cent with the Northern Touch

[Feyr]

50 cents coin in canada do exist. but as far as i know they're not made anymore, and haven't been in a few years (decades?). i used to have a few, but they got stolen somehow

Re:50 Cent with the Northern Touch

[totoanihilation]

Yeah... In Canada, the 1$ bills have been taken out of circulation probably over a decade ago, and the 2$ bills were replaced maybe in '98-'99...
Both were replaced by large coins, making everybody's pockets MUCH heavier...
Odds are the clerk at the store was too young to remember even seeing those bills.

Re:50 Cent with the Northern Touch

[Dr Caleb]

They are still made. Since the 1920's. Most banks can get them, but some still refuse.

I too, collect them, but I have to go to a coin dealer to get them.

Re:50 Cent with the Northern Touch

[zakezuke]

Odds are the clerk at the store was too young to remember even seeing those bills.

My point exactly. It's not classic American stupidity for thinking twice about accepting an uncommon bill or not. Anyone with an ounce of common sence would question whether or not the note was legal tender or not.

Twos are uncommon in America. Unlike Canada twos didn't catch on. The 2003 twos get stares as most people think they stopped producing them in the 70s.

Re:50 Cent with the Northern Touch

[robogop]

Part of your problem may be that you need to get the Expo right.

If we are talking about the same expo that I attended, then you probably attended Expo 86 in Vancouver. I think this was the latest one held in Canada. If you get the Expo right, the clerks might be less inclined to argue on the currency with you.

Re:50 Cent with the Northern Touch

[zakezuke]

If we are talking about the same expo that I attended, then you probably attended Expo 86 in Vancouver. I think this was the latest one held in Canada. If you get the Expo right, the clerks might be less inclined to argue on the currency with you.

I stand corrected. My memory is off due to the fact that it was in the fall. I guess that's why just about all the currency there had an issue date of 1986. But IIRC correctly it was the last one in North America.

But it was a wonderful experence. When people left they threw their Canadian currency in the streets. We're talking wods of $20s and $50s here.

Re:50 Cent with the Northern Touch

[wing03]

Actually we do...they just happen to be as uncommon up here as they are in the States

Indeed. Beyond the ones I have in encased collector sets, you don't see them much.

I came across a couple of circulation coins in the early 90s and spent them. The two clerks at different stores looked at them puzzled, smirked and each pulled coins out of their own pockets totalling 50 cents for the till, pocketed the 50 cent piece and thanked me.

Reading snopes and some more of these posts, I'm glad we have our monopoly money which has their own very distinctive look when they decide to change things around.

Only time I've ever seen people wonder whether a bill is real or not is when they redesign them and some poor clerk is the first to come across it.

Bills looking alike, concurrent support of the same denomination of bill and coin and different variations of the same coin makes (IMO) US currency just a little funnier than our funny money.

Re:50 Cent with the Northern Touch

[FunFactor100]

Yeah...Expo 86 was held in Vancouver....but lots of people still went to Expo 67 in Montreal.

Re:50 Cent with the Northern Touch

[Toresica]

In Canada, the 1$ bills have been taken out of circulation probably over a decade ago, and the 2$ bills were replaced maybe in '98-'99...

A bit earlier then that... 1995 or so.

Re:50 Cent with the Northern Touch

[Kewjoe]

The Canadian Government is thinking of making our 5 dollar bill a coin as well. That should make life interesting.

Re:50 Cent with the Northern Touch

[Grey Ninja]

They were in limited circulation a few years back. I've gotten them as change a few times in the last couple of years. People know them, and recognize them, but they aren't common at all.

I also have a couple of dollar and two dollar bills around, but not in strong quantity at all.

Re:50 Cent with the Northern Touch

[totoanihilation]

Yeah I heard about that too. Might as well start carrying coin pouches again, like the good old days ;)

Re:50 Cent with the Northern Touch

[SilicaiMan]

Both were replaced by large coins, making everybody's pockets MUCH heavier..

When I used to live in Canada, I had the habit of emptying my pockets every night, and depositing the change in a jar on top of my fridge. Every couple of months when it filled up, I'd take it to the bank and cash somewhere in the vicinity of $30-$50.

When the Toonie ($2 coin) was introduced, the value of my change jumped up to $70-$90!

And, yes ... they are heavy!!

Re:50 Cent with the Northern Touch

[zzyzx]

Have they never heard of a currency exchange?

Re:50 Cent with the Northern Touch

[Xofer D]

You know it was Expo 86, right? There was no Expo 87; it is not an annual event.

Re:50 Cent with the Northern Touch

[totoanihilation]

I hear you. Last summer, my coin jar was overflowing so I decided to roll some change to bring it to the bank. I think I had nearly 150 bucks in there! These days, I routinely fill my wallet with 2-3 coins of each type, so every time I get to pay 2$ and 33 cents, it's that much less change in the jar ;)
That, and I often swap some coins with my family when they need change for parkmeters or photocopies. And yet my jar is still full.

Re:50 Cent with the Northern Touch

[zakezuke]

Have they never heard of a currency exchange?

I don't pretend to understand why people threw away perfectly good Canadian money. Perhaps they didn't understand it was legal tender and not special Expo script. Could be they were told they can't export Canadian currency. Perhaps they wanted to see a bunch of young teens run around and collect money. No kid left without at least an extra $20 in his pocket. The lucky ones collected enough to replace a good portion of their Monopoly set.

I can speak for the kids with the currency back in the states, and I know for a fact the banks with in walking distance of the school refused to exchange the currency. To them it was worthless. The wise ones found banks and coin shops elsewhere that would do the exchange, or held onto it for their next trip to Canada. The not foolish ones either gave it away, tossed it away, or flew it in the wind.

If you were to read the original article

[nick_davison]

It was not as simple as not recognising $2 bills.

The cashier noticed smearing of the ink - which apparently was actually there. The $2 bills may have been the first thing that got her notice but the smeared ink on them is what she claims made her suspicious enough to call her manager.

When the officer came, he noticed that the bills all had sequential serial numbers - apparently a common sign in counterfeit currency.

At that point, given the smeared ink and the sequential serial numbers, the officer felt he had grounds to detain the man until the secret service could be called.

Now it turns out that, according to the secret service officer, the ink on legitimate bills does smear from time to time. I'd not heard of that, I'm guessing most people hadn't.

The fact that he gets them as a custom withdrawl from his bank - which probably has absolutely no other use for $2 bills - explains the sequential serial numbers. They likely get them relatively directly from the treasury in large batches and only issue from those large batches to him.

None of this proves he was a criminal - it was all completely explainable.

But it wasn't a simple case of not recognising $2 bills. The smeared ink and sequential serial numbers were enough for the officer to detain him until an explanation could be verified.

It may suck but the officer had reasonable grounds to detain him until he could confirm the story. I would imagine, in the majority of cases where suspect money comes up, the person caught tries feeding a story. At the end of the day, the question is whether you believe it's right to occasionally wrongfully detain one person or regularly let go many. Rightly or wrongly, the concept of reasonable grounds enshrines the former.

Re:If you were to read the original article

[laupsavid]

...and anyone with any sense at all would know that $2 bills would be more expensive to make than to just get at the bank.

Re:If you were to read the original article

[lgftsa]

When the officer came, he noticed that the bills all had sequential serial numbers - apparently a common sign in counterfeit currency.

Identical numbers is believable, for a simple copying setup, but sequential? Whatever mechanism a counterfeiter has to add serial numbers to the unnumbered bills coming off the copier/printer, making it a non-repeating psuedo-random sequence, or simply adding 4357 instead of 1 for each cycle, is trivial.

Re:If you were to read the original article

[HexRei]

Reasonable grounds to detain him are not the same as reasonable grounds to cuff the main and leave him cuffed in front of other people in the store. This makes him look like a criminal regardless of the fact that he is merely a suspect, and only barely so.

Re:If you were to read the original article

[Whyte]

Identical numbers is believable, for a simple copying setup, but sequential? Whatever mechanism a counterfeiter has to add serial numbers to the unnumbered bills coming off the copier/printer, making it a non-repeating psuedo-random sequence, or simply adding 4357 instead of 1 for each cycle, is trivial.

We can count out professional criminals (intelligent and organized) since there is no economy of scale for counterfeiting $2 bills.

That said, the rest of the criminal gene pool for this type of activity is probably too stupid to even think of using a "non-repeating pseudo-random sequence".

These are the type of people that buy a soda with their own credit card just prior to committing armed robbery in the very same store. As a cheap source of comedy, however, stupid criminals do serve a greater purpose in society.

Re:If you were to read the original article

[SA Stevens]

the bills all had sequential serial numbers - apparently a common sign in counterfeit currency.

They're kidding, right? Any sane counterfeiter would either have non-sequential serial numbers, or if lazy, they'd all be the same serial number. There's no reason at all that they'd be sequential. Sequential numbers just means the purchaser got a whole pack of new bills direct from the bank.

Re:If you were to read the original article

[hankaholic]

When the officer came, he noticed that the bills all had sequential serial numbers - apparently a common sign in counterfeit currency.

Do you have any basis for the claim that sequential numbers are common on counterfeit bills?

I worked for a couple of years as a bank teller. I've never seen counterfeit bills with sequential serial numbers. The most common gaffe I've seen counterfeiters make with respect to serial numbers is actually to duplicate them.

For instance, the local courthouse, which was across the street from my branch, takes any cash in excess of $100 from those arrested and brought in to be held. One person had about $600 in counterfeit fifties on them when arrested -- the paper felt wrong and the watermark was missing. Upon further examination, I noticed that there were only two unique serial numbers across the bills. We notified the local Secret Service office, and they sent over a courier to take the bills.

Sequential numbers wouldn't bother me, unless the bills were worn to a large extent. It's common for banks to receive shipments of new bills, especially twos and twenties, and it stands to reason that a teller with new bills (which are shipped in sequence) would give the customer the bills as they were pulled from the drawer.

The smeared ink and sequential serial numbers were enough for the officer to detain him until an explanation could be verified.

Bullshit. Again, what evidence do you have that sequential numbers are suspicious? How "smudged" was the ink? Did the cashier compare the appearance of the bills to other bills in his drawer? Did he look for the watermark present in new bills? How about the officer? This customer did nothing wrong, and the police had no justification other than some garbage about heightened homeland security.

The question is not, as you claim, whether it's reasonable to hold someone given reasonable suspicion. The question is how much doubt must be present -- this man attempted to use legal tender to satisfy a debt, and given my cash-handling experience I don't see any reason to have doubted him.

Re:If you were to read the original article

[Generic Guy]

First of all, this story is like a month old. What I'd really like to see is a followup article.

The cashier noticed smearing of the ink - which apparently was actually there.

The linked article is horribly abridged, and the original points out that she used one of those "chemical pens" to mark the bills, which may have smeared. Smeared the pen or smeared the bill's own ink? It is not clear. But obviously the clerk didn't know how the pen identifies counterfeit paper -- it turns black.

When the officer came, he noticed that the bills all had sequential serial numbers - apparently a common sign in counterfeit currency.

I'd be more concerned if they all had the same serial number. :)

Re:If you were to read the original article

[NoMercy]

When the officer came, he noticed that the bills all had sequential serial numbers - apparently a common sign in counterfeit currency.

No that just means people are dumb, sequential serial numebrs are a common sign they came new from the bank, any person who's counterfeiting currency would have to be a complete moron to print sequential serial numbers on the notes :)

Re:If you were to read the original article

[Surt]

I don't see why it should be so expensive. I could print 2 bills to the page at a cost of no more than 15c. If they are $2 bills that page is worth $4, which seems like a $3.85 profit to me.

Now granted they wouldn't be the most convincing fakes, but given the low recognition rates, it seems like you'd have a decent chance to pass them.

Re:If you were to read the original article

[cgenman]

Bullshit. Again, what evidence do you have that sequential numbers are suspicious? How "smudged" was the ink?

Actually, I've seen new bills smudge quite often. I'm guessing that like new clothes there is excess ink that usually wears off / washes out. Combine some greasy french fries for lunch and never-before-touched 20 from the bank, and you're pretty much guarenteed a smudge. It happened all the time while I was on bike tours and pulling cash out of the bank with sweaty hands that hadn't seen a shower in days.

The giveaway on all of the fake bills I've seen has been the paper. Ink smudges, numbers fade, people wash their wallet with their reds. But the feel of the paper of a bill never changes. Anyone who is going to go through the trouble to fake the paper of a bill properly is probably using better than an inkjet printer to make them, so the look seems to be on. And those antifraud UV scanners are kind of rude to use routinely in front of a customer at a bike shop. But the feel doesn't change in a real bill, it's hard to fake, and it's something you interact with every time you accept a customer's money.

I'm not saying that the police were wrong to detain him. I understand that they have to wait for the appropriate specialist to make an assessment when someone makes a serious claim. But the cashier's cash experience seems to be pretty... questionable.

Re:If you were to read the original article

[mactov]

When I worked as a bank teller, an individual coming in with a bunch of bills with sequential serial #'s would have been a red flag. It practically shouts "STOLEN CASH."

Granted, that teller job was 29 years ago, and things may have changed, but I can see it looking just weird enough to trigger caution on the part of the cops.

The "I'm mad at the company, so I'm going to pay the minimum-wage cashier in something REALLY inconvenient" strikes me as a nasty, pointless way to get "revenge," and a useless form of protest.

Re:If you were to read the original article

[mtgstuber]

The cashier noticed smearing of the ink - which apparently was actually there. The $2 bills may have been the first thing that got her notice but the smeared ink on them is what she claims made her suspicious enough to call her manager.

Interestingly enough, real US currency often looks "smudgy." It's the counterfit that is extra crisp. I realize this is counter-intuitive.

My sister was a secret service for a decade or so. (The secret service's primary role is to protect the treasury. Click here for government propoganda.) Field agents often have a kit with both real and counterfit currency so that they can train folks on how to distinguish between them. I've seen counterfit bills whose quality is "too good."

While it may sound reasonable at some level that the bills were suspicious because they were smeared, this is just further ignorance on the part of cashier. While the feds provide a number of things to check, smeared ink is not one of them.

Re:If you were to read the original article

[winwar]

"Bullshit. Again, what evidence do you have that sequential numbers are suspicious?"

Thanks. Someone with a clue. I actually have a few one dollar bills stashed somewhere. Not because they are valuable, but because they have sequential serial numbers. Kind of interesting.

May not be COMMON. But certainly not suspicious. I mean, they print large sheets of them, cut them up, and bundle them. I would be surprised if you got a stack of new bills and they WEREN'T sequential...

Re:If you were to read the original article

[DavidTC]

All the stupid people counterfeit fifties. I've never heard of anyone counterfeiting twos. The professionals like fives and tens, although ones are fun because you can spend them with zero risk of getting caught at change machines. They don't have to be good at all, change machines are stupid. (Yes, you can spend fives and tens at some, also, but why does it matter? Paper and ink are cheap, and more machines accept ones.)

And the GP is right. No counterfeiter in the history of the world has ever run off sequential numbers. That would just be inane and pointless.

See, counterfeiters know that new-looking money is suspicious, and much easier to notice flaws on, and additionally their paper is sometimes slightly odd when new. So most counterfeiters print money and then put wear and tear on it. (Actually, a lot of them print money and sell it for pennies on the dollar, and the buyers put wear and tear on it.)

The other kind of counterfeiting is to fill briefcases with brand-new looking money, with real money on top, and you don't want sequential serials on that because then it looks stolen.

Sequential numbers are not a sign of counterfeiting, they are actually an anti-sign of counterfeiting, although one that's not used because if it was, counterfeiters would start making them.

Re:If you were to read the original article

[rusty0101]

Stop at any bank near a federal reserve center, and ask for a new bundle of $1s. They come in lots of 50, so it will cost you $50 to get one. These bundles are likely to have sequential numbers. Great gifts for family members around Christmas or birthdays if you happen to like giving away that much money.

-Rusty

Re:If you were to read the original article

[kettch]

But you can buy uncut currency which most likely have sequential numbers. I don't know if there are any standards about precision of the cuts, but I think it would be cool to whip out a sheet of these ($2 bills would enhance the effect) and use some scissors to cut off what you need right there at the register.

Re:If you were to read the original article

[91degrees]

Or simply shuffling them.

Sequential numbers is indeed quire common. Last time I went to the US, I bought US dollars and received sets of sequential numbers for various denominations.

Re:If you were to read the original article

[thePjunisher]

Well, not really. It turns black on cheap paper, with lots of starch in it. No-one uses that to seriously counterfeit money. Kids printing a couple of bills on dads inkjet, yes, probably, mafia types printing money for a living, nooo....

Re:If you were to read the original article

[OgGreeb]

The basic problem is not the specifics of the money tendered. The basic problem is that, at least in the Slashdot community, Best Buy has a terrible reputation and we are ready to believe anything negative about them.

Since Slashdot nominally represents a large group of technically savvy consumers, if I were in Best Buy management, I would work to address this directly, for the good of the company.

Re:If you were to read the original article

[kosmicki]

Why would it be rude? Their interest is the get the bike, yours is to sell it. I bet they inspect the bike before they buy it, why can't you check their payment?

Re:If you were to read the original article

[Generic Guy]

Well, that was kind of my point -- the Best Buy clerk didn't seem to know what result the pen should be providing. If it didn't turn black, but it "smeared", then she's an idiot.

Re:If you were to read the original article

[Surt]

No, that was including all the printing costs, that's my realized long term cost per page of printing. The paper itself only costs about 6c a sheet. The other 9c a page covers everything else.

Re:If you were to read the original article

[syukton]

The "I'm mad at the company, so I'm going to pay the minimum-wage cashier in something REALLY inconvenient" strikes me as a nasty, pointless way to get "revenge," and a useless form of protest.

Well, I don't know about that. Now *everybody* knows this man's story, and that's definitely worth something. (It'll also be worth about 20% to the lawyer he hires to sue the shit out of Best Buy...)

Re:If you were to read the original article

[stanmann]

When I used 2's for tips, they would come on a "tip pad" with a gummed top and sequential numbers.

Re:3 dollars

[StarWreck]

3 Dollar Bills with Clinton wearing a bag clip on his lower lip?

Original Article, If Desired

[nick_davison]

Original Article

hundred dollar bill

[nevada-bill]

I once gave a hundred dollar bill to a clerk. He promtly held it up to the light and said I cant take this. Why not says I. Its counterfiet says he. Doesnt have a stripe in it. It was an older bill and I couldnt get it through his head that the stripe was a new invention. Had to go to the bank to change it.

Paying debt

[nuggz]

But he was paying off a debt, they had already served him, and threatened him if he didn't pay.
The purpose behind legal tender was to have a defined liquid asset to pay debts.

They called him at home. They knew who he was, his phone number, and where he lived.

I don't see the great need to physically detain him.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[subterfuge]

"We don't even have 50 cent pieces up here..."

Isn't a 'Looney' worth US$.50 ?...

= ; ^ ) >

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[fm6]

Well, on the one hand, it's been 20 years or so since I've even seen a 50-cent piece. On the other hand, did it even occur to that cashier to look at the coin?

A sidebar on coins and currency. When I was a kid, you saw a lot of denominations you no longer see, even though they're still officially in circulation. I believe this is mainly due to the domination of retail by big chains, which don't like to deal with more denominations than will fit easily in a standard cash register. (If you run one cash register, dealing with fifty-cent pieces is a small nuisance. If you run millions of them, dealing with fifty-cent pieces subtracts big bucks from your bottom line.) So they put the "odd" denominations in the bank, and never give them out as change. That's why dollar coins will never catch on, unless and until Congress makes room for them by withdrawing dollar bills.

2-cent, 3-cent and 20-cent coins

[Kula]

Kinda reminds me of a math teacher I had back in Junior High.

What's the least number of coins needed to make 45 cents? My answer was 2, a quarter and a 20-cent piece. She thought I was just being my normal sarcastic self, until I brought the coin in the next day.

That was pretty fun. We didn't make 'em for long (1875-1878), but we made 'em.

Re:2-cent, 3-cent and 20-cent coins

[rob_squared]

I did something like that, but we had to list all the ways. So I got about 15 combinations and wasn't finished yet, and the teacher looked at my list and said those weren't real coins. This was in 3rd or 4th grade I think. And yes, I collected coins, this is SLASHDOT, remember.

According to the Coinage Act of 1965,

[Anonymous Coward]

a store has the right to accept only $20 bills in payment if it notifies the customer beforehand. On the other hand, if the store does not specify anything specific, once they enter into the transaction, you are allowed to pay off the 'debt' with any legal tender you have.

Just FYI

Ok, so now I've read bits of the article

[kfg]

Thanks to people who posted links and quoted bit of it, and he was, in fact, arrested 'in the act' of trying to pay his tab.

Please refer to the second part of my post.

KFG

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Bullfish]

Serves him right for shopping at best buy. Remember, friends don't let friends shop at best buy

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Winkhorst]

"try not to confuse the poor cashier" Especially when they give you too much change. ;-) I actually argued over that with one once and finally gave up.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Waffle Iron]

Even though coins are struck with "One dollar" right on the face, some people insist that they are quarters.

That's because they're shaped almost exactly like quarters. Which is because vending machine industry lobbied the gov't to make them "compatible" with existing vending hardware. Partly because of this, nobody used the damned things and the vending machine industry ended up having to put elaborate and expensive bill readers on many machines.

When I heard they were going to create a new dollar coin a couple of years ago, I thought: Great, now that they've learned their lesson, they won't put out a coin that is so easily mistaken for another denomination. I was wrong; now the vending machine industry wanted them to make the new coin exactly the same size and weight as the Susan B. to maintain "compatibility"! How stupid can they get? Now nobody uses the new one either.

IMO, if they would just come out with a nice thick and chunky coin like the British 1 pound coin, one that has a nice feel when you plop it down on a bar and *looks* like it's worth more than other coins, then there would be no problem getting the public to use it. I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to actually happen, though.

Sacagawea

[Halvard]

Not surprising. I had store clerks here in the good old US of A accuse me of trying to pass non-US currency with $ coins. Eventually, they took them but it took a little persuasion (that's some understatement, son).

But Christ on a crutch, this guy's not even going to need a good lawyer for the lawsuit he should have pending: possibly breech of contract or some other bad faith claim; making a false report; false arrest; and I'm sure it goes on and on! Not only will the store be liable, but the parent company, perhaps the individuals involved and the cops. And the stupidity!

No, I'm not a lawyer but this one's almost so good as to not need one.

let's get best buy's POV

[icebrrrg]

... go to their contact us form and ask them for an official statement. i did, but then i wasn't very kind:


http://www.gnn.tv/headlines/2054/Two_Dollar_Man_ ja iled_in_Baltimore_County

so why exactly would i want to shop at best buy, when at best you hire incompetent employees, and at worse you enjoy taking out retribution on your customers?

i would love to see an official statement from best buy about this incident. and if you make one statement about these "post 9/11" times, i'll know you're trying to hide behind an horrific event that i lived through -- and which had nothing to do with best buy.

Re:let's get best buy's POV

[l3vi]

I work at Bestbuy. Tomorrow is our monthly morning meeting. I will try to find if there is any truth to this.

Re:let's get best buy's POV

[icebrrrg]

Here's the response I received from BB:

Thank you for contacting Best Buy about the $2.00 bill situation and newspaper article. I'm Jen with Customer Care.

We are aware of the article that you reference, and the situation that occurred at the store. Best Buy does regret the incident took place, however, we also have an obligation to contact the police when it appears counterfeit money is being used. The fact the police were concerned enough about the money to take the man into custody, and felt the need to contact the Secret Service, further validates the store's concern. While I was happy to know that the money was found to be legitimate, I am sorry to read that the situation left you with a negative feeling about our company.

Thank you for sharing your comments with Best Buy. Please don't hesitate to contact us with additional questions or concerns.

Best wishes from Best Buy,
Jen and the Customer Care Team

TRACKING NUMBER: A00004061518-00014260051

my perspective is that the police totally overreacted on the clerk's groundless statement that the bills were counterfeit. best buy is defending that imbecile here. for shame!

Can This Be Verified?

[Horrortaxi]

I don't mean to doubt the validity of morons.org, but has anybody verified this? Has any other source reported it? It's a very plausible story that we'd all love to believe. We're suckers for incompetent cashiers on power trips and abuses of power by the police. It's just a little too perfect and it sound a lot like that Taco Bell $2 bill story that was going around a few years ago. I'm not going to get up in arms over it until I know that it actually happened.

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[Tassach]

Beware Baltimore County

Cockeysville (and most of the rest of Baltimore County north of the Beltway) is a very yuppified and safe area. Lacking any real crimes to solve, the local constabulatory amuses themselves by pedantically enforcing traffic laws and severely overreacting to any minor infraction they may observe or be called in on. I've personally seen 8 to 10 cars respond to a simple shoplifting arrest.

They DON'T HAVE to accept all currency.

[uits]

Since there have so many commments claiming that you must accept currency, citing "Legal Tender for all debts..." here is a snippet from the treasury department FAQ

Question:
I thought that United States currency was legal tender for all debts. Some businesses or governmental agencies say that they will only accept checks, money orders or credit cards as payment, and others will only accept currency notes in denominations of $20 or smaller. Isn't this illegal?

Answer
The pertinent portion of law that applies to your question is the Coinage Act of 1965, specifically Section 102. This is now found in section 392 of Title 31 of the United States Code. The law says that: "All coins and currencies of the United States, regardless of when coined or issued, shall be legal-tender for all debts, public and private, public charges, taxes, duties and dues."

This statute means that all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor. There is, however, no Federal statute mandating that a private business, a person or an organization must accept currency or coins as for payment for goods and/or services. Private businesses are free to develop their own policies on whether or not to accept cash unless there is a State law which says otherwise. For example, a bus line may prohibit payment of fares in pennies or dollar bills. In addition, movie theaters, convenience stores and gas stations may refuse to accept large denomination currency (usually notes above $20) as a matter of policy.

Re:They DON'T HAVE to accept all currency.

[NarrMaster]

Two things:

Best Buy didn't have a notice stating they would not accept $2 bills. Policies must be stated before a transaction or the contract can be nullified.

He was charged for installation after the fact, thereby becoming a debt, as opposed to a service, allowing any legal tender to be used.

Re:They DON'T HAVE to accept all currency.

[uits]

That's rolled up into one then right? If it wasn't a debt, they'd not have to post policies, since there would be no contract to nullify?

Re:They DON'T HAVE to accept all currency.

[StarWreck]

You countered your Subject Heading with your 4th Body Paragraph.

Snippet from your post:

all United States money as identified above are a valid and legal offer of payment for debts when tendered to a creditor.

As stated in the article, he was paying a pre-existing debt. This is the definition of "payment for debts when tendered to a creditor". So, Best Buy could legally refuse a $2 bill for say... a DVD but they can't refuse them when they're calling him at home telling him to come and pay a bill.

Re:They DON'T HAVE to accept all currency.

[uits]

Yup, I realize that now. I was tired of reading the comments that said businesses always have to accept it.

Interestingly enough, this means restaurants have no choice but to accept my sack of pennies?

Re:They DON'T HAVE to accept all currency.

[StarWreck]

restaurants have no choice but to accept my sack of pennies?

I wouldn't want to try, the next time you visit the resturaunt... *shudder* who knows what they would do to your food.

Re:They DON'T HAVE to accept all currency.

[mjkjedi]

Because it was a debt, they're obligated to accept US currency (see other posts in this thread).

"large amount"???

[Nicolas MONNET]

It's barely over a hundred bucks. You call that a large amount?

See the look when . . .

[Better.Safe.Than.Sor]

A Canadian in Canada refuses to accept American currency from an American. This.Is.Not.America.Dumbass. This what comes from years of "Monopoly money" comments.

Re:See the look when . . .

[klang]

..or an American asking the police in Spain to read him the Miranda rights.. "you have the right to remain silent, anything you say etc."

Reasonable person

[nuggz]

You can report whatever you believe to be a crime. As long as it is a reasonable belief and you're not doing it to abuse or harrass someone you'll be fine.

Customer Service

[johansalk]

I wonder what he thinks of their customer service now.

Pentium Bills

[Tablizer]

Does that mean they won't accept my Intel Pentium $1.999937821498 bill?

Alternate Story Link

[thelizman]

here

It's not just Best Buy. It's the moron manager, the idiot cashiers, and the dumb-fucking cop. I hope this guy sues the shit out of not only the store, but the police department. People get sequential serial numbers on money all the time, especially when they get their money from banks.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[StarWreck]

Good deal on that!!!! Only 50 cents for a JFK 50 cent piece. They're actually worth around $5 now, if in near mint condition. Only recent coin that is better is an Eisenhower Dollar.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[GeckoX]

You haven't been to canada have you?
Loonie and Toonie.
They both _deffinately_ feel like they're worth something.

No choice either, there are no $1 or $2 bills anymore.

Re:Legal tender

[Skapare]

I read about a case once where someone paid a several thousand dollar bill using all ones. In this particular case the person offered the payment refused it. The guy just walked out; there was not arrest. The owner of the debt later sued because the debt was unpaid. Apparently the guy had documented the payment offer and the judge ruled that it was payment refused and the debt cancelled. I don't know how he carried thousands of bills in, but I can just imagine he brought it all in a suitcase or grocery bag or something, maybe wrapped 100 bills at a time.

This was over 25 years ago. Now days the government actually trying to get people to stop using cash for anything ... while at the same time screwing so many people financially that they can't get credit cards or even bank accounts.

I did get hassled at a store once for paying for a $25 purchase with 25 Susan B. Anthony dollar coins because that was all I had at the time. The clerk didn't know coins were made in dollar denomination. She finally called the manager who came over, looked, laughed, and pulled $25 in bills out of his wallet and traded with me. I guess the clerk got to add a few new words to her limited English vocabulary.

Re:Legal tender

[d-ude]

I remember a story about a guy that saved change, possibly pennies only, for years in barrels in his basement. Got them all out one day and went and bought a brand new Dodge Ram or the like with them. There may have been some cashing in beforehand though, I don't remember exactly. Although bits come to mind about the bank refusing to help due to the sheer volume of coin.

Somebody should google for the story and set me straight. I would but i'm off to the pub. I have my priorities, you know.

Re:Um dear /. crowd

[xRobx]

Wrong, the installation was already done, it was a debt and they are obligated to take the tender.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[DashEvil]

Not since you guys elected Bush twice. :p

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Morlark]

'Try not to confuse the poor cashier' is a nice sentiment, and it's all well and good if you're a patient person. But some people are just stubborn, and if they know they're in the right then they won't alter their habits. People should not ever get chucked in a cell just because they're stubborn.

the police were suspicious too

[krunk4ever]

there was more than just the ink smearing. it was that plus the fact that the bills were in sequential order. the police weren't arresting him because they thought $2 bills didn't exist. they thought there was a likelyhood the bills were counterfeit given the fact that the ink smear AND the sequential #s.

of course the poor guy explained he was a tour guide and often got stacks of $2 bills from the bank. even gave them the # of the bank to verify. best buys have horrible customer service. we all know that: http://www.bestbuysux.org/. but it was the police response that was shocking.

i guess in a town like bolesta, cops are in favor of retail stores more than the individuals since they probably pay more of their salary.

here's an article from the local newspaper: A tale of customer service, justice and currency as funny as a $2 bill. might wanna goto bugmenot to get a login to bypass registration.

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[surprise_audit]

a cop ought to at least know what currencies are legal.

Or at least be smart enough to call any random local bank and ask. Two minutes, tops, for the call, plus maybe a half-hour if the bank wanted to actually examine the bills. No need to drag the Secret Service into it unless the bank said "Fake!!"

He may or may not have a case for filing suit against Best Buy for: 1)wrongful arrest; 2)defamation of character; 3)slander; but you can pretty much guarantee that the local papers will have some fun with it, and Best Buy may see attorneys lining up to buy stuff with $2 bills, just to keep in practise - it's gotta be safer than chasing ambulances...

Bestbuy Required to Take Money?

[eggbert.net]

I am not a lawyer.

From the research that I have done, it seems like Best Buy was obligated to accept the payment because they had already provided the service and he was paying a debt.

Here is an excerpt from an interesting article I found on
http://encyclopedia.laborlawtalk.com/Legal_tender# Legal_tender_in_the_United_States
Legal tender in the United States

As laid down in the United States Coinage Act of 1965, all coins and currencies of the United States, regardless of when coined or issued, shall be legal-tender for all debts, public and private, public charges, taxes, duties and dues.

However, US federal law does not restrict private businesses, persons or organisations in what methods of payment they choose to accept or refuse. Businesses are therefore free to insist on payment by credit card, for example, or to refuse larger denomination banknotes. Even further though, legal tender laws do not preclude businesses from choosing to reject U.S. dollars for payment altogether. In this regard legal tender laws do not pertain to voluntary transactions.

However, when the transactions are non voluntary such as in the payment of a debt, any legal tender must be accepted.

Another excerpt from the previous webpage

As legal tender can be refused until a person is in debt, vending machines and transport staff do not have to accept the largest denomination of banknote for a single bus fare or bar of chocolate, and even shopkeepers can reject large banknotes. However, restaurants that do not collect money until after a meal is served would have to accept any legal tender, though they would not be obliged to provide change - the restaurant is not in debt, it has been given a gift.

Related Court Cases:
http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/cgi-bin/getcase.pl?c ourt=us&vol=110&invol=421

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jacksonj04]

After my recent trip to the US (I live in the UK), I was baffled to why on earth the lowest base denomination was a note (bill) instead of a coin, meaning that vending machines are forced to accept bills *and* coins, unlike in the UK where everything up to £2 (1, 2, 5, 10, 20 and 50 pence, then £1 and £2) are all in coins.

Not exactly the same situation, but...

[matt_shaver]

Some years ago, I wanted to buy a new HP LaserJet 4L (that's how long ago it was!) (I still use it too!). I went to Office Depot since they had a policy of beating any advertised price, and I had cut an ad from Computer Shopper magazine that was very cheap. So, I take the printer up to the cashier, and the following discussion ensues:

Me - "I'd like to buy this printer, and take advantage of your price matching policy. Here's the competitive ad".

Cashier - [carefully examines the ad and printer box] "These aren't the same item. The ad says _LaserJet 4_, the box says _LaserJet IV_". [she pronounces this 'eye-vee']

Me - [utterly dumbfounded that there are actually people who know nothing about Roman numerals]

The manager came out and explained to the cashier that IV=4, and the transaction was completed. Even to this day, I am always amazed when I find out that not everyone is functionally literate.

Re:Not exactly the same situation, but...

[uberjon]

I blame the schools

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[TykeClone]

When I was a kid, you saw a lot of denominations you no longer see, even though they're still officially in circulation. I believe this is mainly due to the domination of retail by big chains, which don't like to deal with more denominations than will fit easily in a standard cash register

That might be part of it, but I think that ATMs are more of a direct cause. They typically dispense 20's or 20's and 5's, and because of them, most people don't have to carry around larger denominations when they are going places.

2's (and $1 coins) haven't ever been very "popular" as currency - but are nice for gifts to kids.

If you've ever looked at older currency, it's kind of amazing how much it's changed. I've got a $20 bill from the 1930's. If you look at it, it is a $20 bill. If you place it in a stack of the old style 20's, it sticks out because the green ink was a little different than what was used before the last two redesigns of that denomination.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[value_added]

I don't think anyone's pointed it out yet, but I believe in Canada it's still the case that change for a fiver is two 2's and a 1.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[mab]

Are cash registers different in the US? here in Australia we have 5c,10c,20c,50c,$1 and $2 coins as well as $5,$10,$20,$50 and $100 notes and all the shops kmart etc. have all denominations.

Re:Points Too Frequently Over-looked or Unmentione

[YITBOS]

For one, I'm not a "flaming piece of shit troller."

Sorry, I forgot I read this on another site a few days ago and assumed this information was included elsewhere.

Here's the other site [baltimoresun.com]

And to the other reply below, yes, paying a $100 bill in $2 bills is still a LOT OF BILLS. Paying a $10 bill in pennies is still a lot of freakin' pennies.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Bastian]

Possibly we might give law enforcement a little more benefit of the doubt and consider the possibility that they went ahead with the arrest under the assumption that, if he were conuterfeiting the bills, he might have chosen them because they are uncommon, and basically nobody knows them well enough to be able to easily recognize whether they are real or not?

Not that that makes what they did okay, they still should have inspected the bills themselves before making the arrest. I was always under the impression that the police were expected to arrest people based on evidence, not one random dope's wild accusations.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Kymermosst]

When I heard they were going to create a new dollar coin a couple of years ago, I thought: Great, now that they've learned their lesson, they won't put out a coin that is so easily mistaken for another denomination. I was wrong; now the vending machine industry wanted them to make the new coin exactly the same size and weight as the Susan B. to maintain "compatibility"! How stupid can they get? Now nobody uses the new one either.

So, are you saying that even though it is (1) bigger than a quarter and (2) gold-ish in color, it still looks like some other U.S. coin in circulation? I'd think that #2 would have eliminated that. Maybe you and some other people are too stupid to tell the difference, but not me and most people I know.

You want to see the new dollar coin in use? Tell the government to stop printing paper singles and start minting more of the coins. The banks around here have hardly any of them. Part of the problem is that morons save them because they are seen as being more rare, and the other part is that there aren't enough of them in circulation.

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[Nicky G]

Whoa -- OK, this was at the Best Buy I go to, right on York Rd. north of Towson. Wow, that's pretty scary. Yes, their employees are pretty dumb, but this seems kind of over-the-top. There is a lot of just-below-the-surface racial tension in Baltimore; I wonder if this in any way came in to play? One thing I do know is, I won't try to use $2 bills there any time soon!

A Foreigner?

[Jiggily]

That Mike Bolesta guy is probably one of them ignorant foreigners from New Mexico! Imagine someone trying to pass off a phony two dollar bill! Good thing Americans are all more skeptical since 9/11!!!!!

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[grasshoppa]

Fuck that, I would. I would get a bunch of friends to choose a day ( say; Sunday, or mother's day. The one that comes twice a month ) to go in there and use $2 bills.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[dpilot]

Old story from a friend about Susan B.

He used to work at a company that did vending service for the company I work for. When Susan B. came out, my company insisted that his company gear up the vending machines to handle it, so they did. Problem was with the vending machines near the machine shops. Within a week, the Susan B. Anthony slug was produced. Back then coffee cost $.15, so they'd get $.85 change, too. A hidden camera soon put a stop to that, and a few careers.

I'm suprised at the trouble with $2 bills when I..

[Maxo-Texas]

I use them all the time to make change for people who pay with $3 bills. Sheesh... some people!

You too can buy uncut sheets of $2 bills!

[supersat]

Many years ago, my parents took me on a tour of the US Bureau of Engraving and Printing. In the building, they had a gift shop where you could buy all sorts of things. One of the things they sold was a sheet of uncut $2 bills. Apparently, you can now buy them directly from the government over the Internet.

In case you're wondering, they are indeed legal currency. I'd personally like to see someone try to pay with an entire sheet.

Status: Undetermined

[Mr. Underbridge]

It's not known if this happened, but at least we have a first-hand if undomumented account. From Snopes:

Did the infamous "$2 bill at Taco Bell" incident really happen as described in Captain Sarcastic's tale? He says it did. But whether it's real, a somewhat embellished account of an actual encounter, or purely the product of a fertile imagination, the story remains a favorite because it's all too plausible, something we can easily imagining happening -- indeed, many of us have already experienced something very much like it (from both sides of the retail counter). Who hasn't had to deal with the tandem of a less-than-brilliant sales associate and a dim-witted manager type whose reaction to actually having to think or acknowledge something beyond his limited experience is to retreat into an officious, unchallengable "I'm the boss, and whatever I say goes" mode?

Re:Status: Undetermined

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

a less-than-brilliant sales associate and a dim-witted manager type whose reaction to actually having to think or acknowledge something beyond his limited experience is to retreat into an officious, unchallengable "I'm the boss, and whatever I say goes" mode?

Anyone who has tried to take Best Buy up on their "price-match policy" will know that description fits the chain to a T.

Re:Status: Undetermined

[Mr. Underbridge]

Anyone who has tried to take Best Buy up on their "price-match policy" will know that description fits the chain to a T.

Huh. What do they do, try to tell you the other sale price doesn't count because it's a rebate or something?

Re:Status: Undetermined

[Mr. Underbridge]

If the price difference is large, they will say its too big to match. Sometimes they say that the other store is not a "competitor" or that since the other store doesn't price match, best buy doesn't have to pricematch them (gets used on Target a lot). Anything straw they can grasp will eventually get used. But, if you come back two hours later when the next shift is on, you have just as much chance to get the pricematch accepted with no hassle at all.

Incredible. I'll take a look at the fine print one of these days of their pricematch text. Because if they just try making shit up, I'd say the words "false advertising" and "Attorney General" one of these days if they keep it up.

Smells like a lawsuit...

[CharonX]

Personally I'd go back to this best buy branch and tell them that you are going to contact not only customer service, but all the local newspapers about this.
"Bestbuy accuses customers of conterfeiting money and has him dragged away in handcuffs and irons"
Tell them about all the good PR they are going to get. Also tell them how you feel that they damaged your reputation. Mention Libel and Defamation.

Let's see them crawling around and kissing your ass to keep you from doing so.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[pete6677]

The US Postal Service is the only place where I've ever received a dollar coin for change. I don't think anybody else uses them. And yes, the postal clerks have to explain to about every other customer that they really did get a dollar in change, not a quarter.

His crime: using the wrong odd-denomination bills

[I Be Hatin']

Obviously, he should've used a $200 bill.

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[tk2x]

If you are a lawyer, how come you have never heard of a Private Person's Arrest (f.k.a. Citizen's Arrest)? A private person *can* arrest another person in many states.

And as for county jail.. in most localities, a city police officer who arrests a suspect will transport to a county jail. The sheriff's deputies will receive the prisoner, but that doesn't mean they arrested him. I'm assuming you don't practice anything related to criminal law..

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[WalksOnDirt]

If congress would just remove the penny it would leave a spot in cash registers to put the dollar coins. I really think we should get rid of the nickel while we are at it. I'd bet the half cent piece when it was abandoned was worth more than ten cents in today's money.

I agree that to really make the dollar coin popular the dollar bill would have to go away, but I think the transition would be easier without the penny.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Bullfish]

Not any more thanks to shrub running the country into the ground. Here's an interesting thing. I have found that prices in Canada and the US are the same for most goods. You just pay them in american dollars.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[GlacierDragon]

Are cash registers different in the US?

Since no one else has chimed in and I ran registers in the U.S. for many years, I'll chime in here.

For the coins, we have bins for the penny, nickel, dime and quarter plus an extra one that could certainly be used for the 50 cent piece but in which you usually find paper clips, rubber bands and stamps. Occasionally you'll see a forlorn 50 cent piece or a foreign coin sitting in it.

For the bills, there is a corresponding number of slots for ones, fives, tens, twenties and checks. Large bills, coupons and odd-size company checks go under the till in the drawer.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[SA Stevens]

There were a few in the 80's when the mintage of Canadian Half dollars was in the six digits. They minted hundreds of millions of quarters one year, and under 300,000 half dollars.

I've bought a few rolls of those years half dollars and expect over the long term they will be worth a lot of money.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Anonymous Coward]

That's once

I use $2 bills all the time

[Anonymous Coward]

I use them all the time. I keep a pile of them for when I go on trips. I even have an uncut sheet of them framed and hanging up in my office.

The thing is that it gets you remembered when you leave them as a (good) tip at a resturant. My wife and I ate at a small diner twice in one year, and I left a two for the tip each time. (It was a 20% tip.) We went back a year later, and the lady remembered us.

This year, my wife flew to a convention, and she gave the airport bus driver a $2 as a tip. Someone else on the bus, who knew us and our use of $2s later told us that the bus driver went on for another 15 or 20 minutes about the lady that gave him a two.

Why did I start?

A friend who was in the navy said that at one time when he was stationed there, Newport News, VA hated the navel base. They wanted to get rid of it. It was way too much trouble when an Aircraft Carrier came into port and 3,000 sailors hit the bars. The base commander knew he had a PR problem, so one day he paid all the sailors with stacks of $2 bills. That very day just about every store in the city was dealing with stacks of $2s. The police, the city management, and every shop keeper quickly found out that it was from the navy payroll. Message delivered: All that money comes straight from the navy. Do you want us to leave?

PR problem solved.

I learned that is was a fun way to be remembered and deliver a message on where your money is from.

Re:I use $2 bills all the time

[fossilstar]

A really kewl, easy-to-learn, and fun magic trick: Present a $2 bill and your hands otherwise empty; let the other person question it. Fold it a few times, unfold it, and present two singles. If they're impressed, fold again, unfold, and you have one $5 bill. It's sold here; people are always amazed, and yes, I've used it in stores. And all the bills are real.

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[Fnkmaster]

Everyone is talking about suing Best Buy. If this happened to me, I would sue the county for the outrageously reprehensible behavior of their police officer. Seriously. Best Buy didn't arrest the guy, the cop did, on suspicion of using a 2 dollar bill? Fucking moron should be shot.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[zakezuke]

I believe this is mainly due to the domination of retail by big chains, which don't like to deal with more denominations than will fit easily in a standard cash register.....That's why dollar coins will never catch on, unless and until Congress makes room for them by withdrawing dollar bills.

What I don't understand is we've had dollar coins for decades. Before the Susie B we had the Eisenhower (somewhat) Silver Dollar in the early 70s. Before that we had true blue silver dollars that were last produced in 1965. What happened to the dollar coin slot on the cash register, or the 50cent slot for that matter.

I'll agree the 50cent piece is a pain due to it's size, but every register i've seen in the past few years has an extra coin slot that's is typicaly filled with coin rolls. It seems to me they have a place for dollar coins but decide to use it for something else. After all why make a different drawer for Canadia as America?

Even worse yet, the $2.00 bill is still printed. I've seen them dated 1997 and 2003.
What happened to its slot?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Golias]

Loonie and Toonie.
They both _deffinately_ feel like they're worth something.

Sure, they feel like they are worth something, but the truth is that they are only worth one or two Canadian dollars.

(I keed, I keed!)

Count me as one of the people who thought there was nothing wrong with the "Ike" silver dollar.

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[Nicky G]

Yeah, on 2nd thought, I am going to try it sometime. Heheheh if I go to jail I'll be PO'd, but I would think they'd have figured out by now that $2 bills are for real.

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[MrResistor]

It's a perfectly valid question (and my wife is a cop, so I am familiar with the concept).

Being arrested I can understand, though I think it's extreme in this case. Handcuffed to a pole, with leg restraints, is the kind of treatment normally reserved only for those who are violently resisting or likely to try and escape. I'd be interested in hearing their justification.

Who kept the money?

[Rick Zeman]

Did he at least get to screw WorstBuy out of the $114?

Re:Who kept the money?

[xander2032]

I'm sure they gave it back to him? The bills were examined by the secret service dude, and once he determined they were indeed real bank notes, they'd have to return them to him.

Old Story.

[Steven Gray (Pulse U]

This one was posted in the Baltimoore Sun on 8th of March. Check the link for yourselves, it's in the article.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jdubois79]

I had the same experience with a saqajaweeah dollar. They had to have three managers come and confirm that I wasn't minting my own coins with "united states of america" stamped on it.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Unnngh!]

My next question is...did you then try to pay the cashier for your order with the 50c piece?

I feel sorry for the kid

[Piquan]

The article says that he used to give kids $2 bills as lunch money. It's an uncommon item, and the kids thought it was neat. A source of some amusement.

Now his son doesn't want to take them, because of the trouble it caused. What's the lesson? Straying from the norm gets you in trouble. A little uniqueness used to be a source of amusement, now it's a source of fear. I feel sad about this.

It reminds me of the Harry Chapin song, "Flowers Are Red".

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Waffle Iron]

(1) bigger than a quarter

What is it, 10% bigger?

(2) gold-ish in color

Which isn't distinguishable without good lighting.

If you're fishing around in your pocket, it's not easy to distinguish them. The ridges on quarters often get worn down, so those don't help much either. It also doesn't help that the dollar coin is also a dead ringer for many existing tollroad tokens and similar pseudo-coins.

If your theory was correct, we wouldn't need to have such a large difference between pennies, dimes, nickels and quarters either.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[michaeltoe]

At most

Re:3 dollars

[spinachcat]

I abhor 3 dollar bills.

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[MrResistor]

I agree. I don't live anywhere near Baltimore, but next time I have cause to buy something at Best Buy I will be swinging by the bank first to get some $2 bills.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[fm6]

Sounds like your cash registers are the same as ours. But we have $1 bills and you don't. That frees up enough space for two new denominations of coins, $1 and $2. (Canada is the same.) We don't have $2 coins at all, and the $1 coins are rarely seen.

Send A Fruit Basket

[beforewisdom]

If I was this guy I would send BEST Buy a fruit basket and a "thank you" card.

The winnings from the court case against them will provide him with an early retirement

Broke the Law?

[TimeTraveler1884]

I am not so sure it's that clear cut. She only refused the legal tender on the grounds of suspected counterfeiting. It would be different if she refused the $2 bills on the grounds that she simply didn't want to take them.

I once owed $20 to a friend, he lended me for lunch one day. Some time had passed and I had yet to get to the ATM. I wanted to pay him back promptly, so I gathered $20 I had in pennies and put them in paper cups on his desk.

He subsequently returned the pennies and refused my payment. Now that was technically illegal. (But I kinda was being a dick for paying him $20 in pennies, that's why I didn't take him to court. :)

Re:Broke the Law?

[Anonymous Coward]

But I kinda was being a dick for paying him $20 in pennies

In Soviet Russia, dick pays you!

1976 Was Not The Last Series Of $2 Bills

[drbill28]

Seems that people on here think they stopped producing $2 bills in the 1976 series. The policy on $2 bills is to produce them only when quantities are sufficiently low. They produced more in 1996 under the 1995 series. Also quantities are getting very low. Even after only 9 or so years. They believe they'll print mroe by 2006. They're very much alive. But as someone said, they mostly just take up space.

Re:1976 Was Not The Last Series Of $2 Bills

[drbill28]

Correction those 2003 series $2 bills were actually printed.

Re:1976 Was Not The Last Series Of $2 Bills

[zakezuke]

Correction those 2003 series $2 bills were actually printed.

Yeah my bank still has these all in their fresh condition the last time I checked. 1996 and 1997 ones also exist.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[cloudmaster]

A penny, nickel, dime, quarter, and half-dollar are all coins, and are all fractions of a dollar (.01, .05, .10, .25, and .50, respectively). The smalles denomination is a cent, which is, in fact, a coin (just like the next 5 steps). A dollar is just a hectocent, but "dollar" is so much easier to remember - and "dollar" doesn't sound like a sci-fi alien race that somehow feeds off of other organisms. "I'd hate to meet up with a pack of hectocents in a dark alley..."

Re:Toronto cops

[themoodykid]

Nope, Calgary. Actually, I didn't mind him asking why I was taking photos 'cause I could explain that and I wasn't doing anything wrong. But I got annoyed since his demeanor was condescending as if I was so stupid to not understand the supposedly grave implications of taking a photo of a police station.

A little nervous in the post 9/11 world?

[AtariDatacenter]

"It's a sign that we're all a little nervous in the post-9/11 world."

I believe that the musical group Green Day has a song that covers this topic. You'll find it as the cover track of the album entitled 'American Idiot'.

Re:Points Too Frequently Over-looked or Unmentione

[surprise_audit]

And of course, a counterfeiter really would create bills that don't even look real... That's the part I don't understand - why anyone would even imagine that $2 bills are fake?? If you've got the equipment to make realistic-looking bills, why put $2 on them and risk almost certain discovery, when $5 (or even $1) would be just as easy and much less detectable??

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Morlark]

This comment got me thinking. It seems that US currency has gone through many different changes over the years, and yet it's all still legal tender, resulting in a confusing mish-mash of coins and bills and whatnot. Is there any reason why all this currency is kept as legal tender? Here in the UK, when a new coin is introduced the old one is gradually phased out, with lots of public notices about the change. Then after a while the old coin ceases to be legal tender, although it can still be exchanged at banks. This seems to me to be a far more sensible solution, as it avoids the confusion that can occur when there are many different coins of the same denomination.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Leebert]

What scares me (and surprises me a little, though less than it probably should) is that this guy made it all the way to the county lock-up on the suspicions of one cashier

They interviewed this fellow on local radio last week. He said something to the effect of this:

The police sympathized with him and pretty much knew he was innocent, but they still could not make that judgement call themselves and had to wait for the Secret Service to arrive and verify that they were in fact not counterfiet.

Well, it's a post-9/11 world.

[Axel2001]

Well, you know, in a post-9/11 world...

Let's get real. Every time the cops or some authorities do something that clearly oversteps a boundary, they scream "9/11! 9/11!" - but stuff like this shows how fucking stupid those screaming this really are. Yeah, we have to be careful of all those people who go to Best Buy to get car stereos installed and try to pay with fake money. Next thing you know, these people will be bombing buildings, so we have to be careful!

I'm probably considered unpatriotic for not being scared shitless and willing to give up every civil liberty because something very bad happened a few years ago. I'm probably not considered patriotic because I don't have 20 "support our troops" magnets on the back of my car... I just know that putting one on there will convert all those troop-haters out there who are sitting in traffic, so tomorrow, I'll be sure to go spend my $2 at Walmart and buy a Chinese-made magnet to go on the back of my vehicle. I'll also spout support for a president who has destroyed my country's economy and ruined relationships with allies. If I encounter anyone who doesn't support my views, I'll scream until they do.

It's what George Washington or Thomas Jefferson would do, so it's the least I can do for the love of my country.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[akintayo]

The ticket machines for some train lines also use them. NJTransit the new jersey rail company has ticket machines that accept both Susan Bs and the new dollars, and also dispenses them as change.

Other than that I haven't see them in circulation.

Re:Points Too Frequently Over-looked or Unmentione

[Anonymous Coward]

> that the 2-dollar bills were SEQUENTIAL and the INK ON THE BILLS WERE SMEARING...

I regularly obtain $2 bills from my bank, they are always SEQUENTIAL (since the teller gives them to me in those straps) and the ink is most of the time SMEARING (almost all new bills are like this).

Any teller would tell you that sequential number and smearing ink is a "hint" (I don't have a better word) that the bills are REAL.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[davmoo]

No, in this case not buying at Best Buy is not the perfect protest. The perfect protest is for us to continue to buy at Best Buy, but pay ONLY with $2 bills and $1 *coins*.

Although I would like to see the sexy redhead at the local store in Playboy...

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[amigabill]

When I was a cashier in high school during the 1990's, I loved it when people paid with uncommon currency. I bought a bunch of stuff out of my drawer from the manager at the end of my day. It was great. Now that I'm a cubicle-dwelling engineer, I rarely see neat currency anymore. I even think I have not yet seen the most recent 4 or 5 state quarters now. Using my debit card so often has greatly reduced my chances of seeing the new stuff.

I've now got piles of "wheat pennies" that have the two stalks of wheat on the back instead of the building, a few of them made of silver or whatever the non-copper material was, a buffalo nickel, many Susan B Anthonys, Many of the older and larger silver dollars, a $5 bill printed in the '50s with a red seal, a $10 bill from teh 60's with a blue seal, a couple $1 silver certificates, a pure-silver quarter (not a copper sandwich), about $50 worth of 50 cent pieces, and about $80 worth of bicentennial quarters, in addition to my own pile of $2 bills.

I've taken the $2 bills to work to show off to the foreigners in the office, as they didn't believe me about having them. I haven't met an American that doesnt' know they exist, but it is true they don't get seen often in the wild. About half of the bills I have are stamped with the name of the same bank somewhere, which is fun to theorize conspiracies about. :) Anyone else ever noticed that? I think they're the neatest looking bills we've got in the USA, even if they aren't worth much.

I probably should have backed off on a couple items after a while, but if there's ever a shortage of them I've got the collectors market covered for a little while. :)

Only in America

[HermanAB]

I Soviet Russia, people don't have any money to be arrested for.

Pardon, but we have to have at least one lame Soviet Russia joke about this..."

manager's "citizen's arrest"

[coyote-san]

Details definitely vary by state so check with a lawyer, etc., but it's my understanding that in most(?) states anyone can detain anyone else for authorities if they witness a serious crime. In other words, arrest them. Cops are different in that they're authorized to arrest people even if they didn't witness the crime, and they're authorized to use force.

If somebody isn't free to leave, they're under arrest. Even if the store tries to call it something else. But they're under arrest by the manager (or the rent-a-cop), not the police.

Anyway, the point of this is that the police may be "accepting custody" of somebody arrested by the store manager, not doing the initial arrest, when they pick up somebody held by the store. The city may even have this as an explicit policy, to get the cops back on the street instead of getting caught in an argument between the suspect and the rent-a-cops and clerks and who knows who else. The cops take the suspects back to the lockup, they get the papers from the store confirming their desire to press shoplifting charges (or whatever) and the suspect goes to arraignment.

This case was different since the store isn't the one that presses counterfeiting charges... and the basis for their suspicions should have been handled by any competent store manager.

The bottom line is that the buck (almost certainly) stops with the store and the manager. They're the ones who arrested him due to their own ignorance, they're the ones who need a harsh lesson on the consequences of false arrest. It doesn't to be financial or even public, e.g., a notice to the branch manager that calls to that store will have the lowest priority until they can demonstrate that the store's management understands its responsibilities in such situations. (Read: don't let the door hit the manager's ass on his way out the door.)

Re:manager's "citizen's arrest"

[Courageous]

Details definitely vary by state so check with a lawyer, etc., but it's my understanding that in most(?) states anyone can detain anyone else for authorities if they witness a serious crime. In other words, arrest them.

Sort of. The deal is, you're not allowed to be wrong. So if it turns out you are mistaken, and the guy sues in civil court, your ass is so entirely grass you may as well hand over your car and house keys right there. You are done, well done, totally cooked.

C//

Re:manager's "citizen's arrest"

[(negative video)]

Bingo! Never say "stay here until the cops arrive" unless you really mean to make an arrest.

Also, I suspect the clerk used one of those marking pens that shows a different color for fake money. That's known as defacing currency and is also a crime. So the store people managed to offend the Secret Service in addition to corporate headquarters and the local cops. Whoops.

Re:manager's "citizen's arrest"

[numark]

Also, I suspect the clerk used one of those marking pens that shows a different color for fake money. That's known as defacing currency and is also a crime.

Not true. Yes, defacing currency is illegal, but only with the intent of rendering it unfit to remain in circulation. Making a small mark with a marking pen is not going to make the bill unable to stay in circulation, and the clerk certainly isn't intending to mark it for the purpose of getting a real bill out of circulation.

Reference: The Bureau of Engraving and Printing's site

A Clue is Your Best Buy

[not_hylas( )]

The NEW $7 dollar bill!

http://www.moneyfactory.com/section.cfm/4

The Insights

[FLeiXiuS]

The greatest thing of them all is that I work at the Best Buy where this happened. I was histerically laughing on the floor when I have read the article about it. It's absolutely funny. Unfortunately for Mike it's not to funny. We had the OPS hold him in our Sales Development Room where he was then questioned till the Secret Service arrived. The cashier near lost her job, I'm suprised she didn't. Coming from Baltimore, with Pimlico near by. Most race tracks around here use 50 cent pieces and 2$ bills. I'm suprised she didn't know. Oh well it was sure funny to read.

Re:The Insights

[Apotsy]

Can you explain why, as some of the articles say, the store at first waived the installation fee, then called him the next day demanding that he pay it after all, even threatening to call the police, despite the fact that, as he tells it, it was the first time he'd heard that he needed to pay it? That's the part of this story that really bugs me. Is that standard practice at Best Buy or something?

If a store threatened me like that, I'd be pissed, probably much more than if they called the cops because the ink smeared on a bill I gave them (a part of the story everyone seems to be missing -- it wasn't the $2 denomination alone that caused suspicion).

BTW, check out Woz's $2 bill stories. He buys them in perforated sheets from the U.S. Treasury, and leaves them on the sheets. People really have a hard time believing they are real when he pulls out the sheet.

Re:The Insights

[illuminatedwax]

Did you guys have a "Team Huddle" about this?

It's not all that uncommon to see $2s around here

[jmpvm]

being as though the most popular local ... ahem .. gentlemen's club tends to distribute them as change. I've never had a problem passing one of them off anywhere in town ... not that I've had an opportunity, mind you...

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[fm6]

I agree that getting rid of the penny is a good idea. But then we'd have to round all prices off to the nearest nickel. People aren't quite ready for that.

Re:Um dear /. crowd

[surprise_audit]

Hmm. The cashier called a manager, who in turn called the cops, right?? According to TFA, the cop said it was standard practice to cuff the suspect until things could be sorted out. That part's understandable - the officer was looking out for himself, in case the suspect turned out to be violent. I'll bet he got patted down too, and any sharp objects taken from him.

The completely stupid part is that the manager didn't seem to have the initiative to call any local bank and ask the question, "Are $2 bills real??" OK, so they could still have been fakes, but at least there'd be a seed of doubt in the manager's apparently small mind...

Why are these in circulation??

[djmurdoch]

Okay, this makes no sense. $2 bills are legal tender, fine. But why are they still available? What use is it to have bills circulating when lots of vendors have never seen them, and won't be able to recognize the difference between real ones and ones you printed up on your inkjet printer?

In Canada, $1 and $2 bills are still legal tender, but you almost never see them, because they were withdrawn from circulation when the coins were introduced. But in the USA, they're still printing $2's, but hardly any of them compared to other denominations.

Re:Why are these in circulation??

[gerardrj]

They are still available because they never make it to the Federal Reserve banks. The FR banks scan incoming currency for wear or age and remove offending bills from circulation, replacing the bills with newly printed bills to equal the quantity of removed currency.

Banks, knowing the novelty value, ensure that the $2 bills are not sent to the FR and instead horde the bills for distribution to customers

This is also true of the $500, $1,000, $5,000 and $10,000 bills. The $100,000 bill was never circulated to the public. If you had a $5,000 bill, you could still spend it today as legal tender.

Re:Why are these in circulation??

[djmurdoch]

They are still available because they never make it to the Federal Reserve banks. The FR banks scan incoming currency for wear or age and remove offending bills from circulation, replacing the bills with newly printed bills to equal the quantity of removed currency.

The Canadian system is the same. But the US printed 100 million $2 bills last year, the first printing in the 2000's. (By comparison, they print several billion 1's every year. The print run of the $2's is by far the smallest of any denomination still being printed.)

Are the $2's printed entirely for novelty value? That makes no sense for a banknote that is so easy to forge.

Re:Why are these in circulation??

[corsican]

Come on; who's going to forge a 2???

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[dnoyeb]

I was locked up over something like this. The cashier thought I stole my mothers credit card. Which was a legitimate thought since it was reported stolen by my mother. So she decided to keep the credit card AND my drivers license. So I told her to just call the police and settle this now since I couldn't rightfully drive away anyway.

To make a long story short the officers told me (as I was riding to the station) that in any case always make sure YOU are the one who called the police. They are almost always on the side of the person that placed the call. And yes I got to wear the sporty hand cuffs.

Re:Um dear /. crowd

[BgJonson79]

You're aware that not every HS has economics courses, right?

Mine didn't. At least, I never took 'em... (can't remember at this point). Took theology instead ;-)

Baltimore County Police - dangerous ignorance

[Mr. Slippery]

For Baltimore County police, said spokesman Bill Toohey, "It's a sign that we're all a little nervous in the post-9/11 world."

A few months ago, a friend of mine was detained by B'more County's finest for four hours for photocopying a satirical newletter (and because the cops thought his washtub bass might be a WMD). Now this. I can only conclude that IQ's at the BCPD are dropping sharply. Hope it's not contageous.

I recall that when a housemate of mine was being stalked by a deranged ex-boyfriend, it took weeks for the BCPD to get around to arresting the guy. But make politically incorrect photocopies, or defy a large corporation by paying with inconvenient currency, and bam! they're right on top of it.

Sure makes me feel secure...

Fun with Liberty Dollars

[parawing742]

If you think "real" $2 bills are hard to spend, try passing off Liberty Dollars. I've had some success with they before, but you will surely get some strange looks.

More stories here: http://www.libertydollar.org/html/successstories.a sp

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

The one pound coin in the U.K. is pretty great. Thick as two or three others, so there is writing on the edge. It's possible to even have one land this way in a toss - tho not too possible!

Easy to tell the things apart from others, and they naturally sort themselves out in your pocket. Makes me not miss the old "Isaac Newton" quid that was phased out in the 'eighties. It's also the best reason I can think of for Great Britain to stay out of the Euro.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Gilgaron]

You're thinking of the new dollar coin, the older silver colored ones with Susan on them are fairly easy to confuse with quarters superficially.

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[plague3106]

Care to list said states?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[TopShelf]

At least as of a few years ago, Ann Arbor's signature hamburger stand, Blimpy Burger, loaded up with $2 bills and 50-cent pieces to use in giving change. Just another feature that makes it a unique and memorable spot.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[LMariachi]

Back in college, a local supermarket cashier, when handed a Susan B., asked "What is this, Mexican?" Which was especially surprising since not only had they been around for years but the supermarket adjoined a commuter rail station that had ticket machines that gave them as change; you'd think she would get them all the time.

Another time at the same supermarket, my friend got carded. The cashier didn't recognize the out-of-state driver's license and got the manager, who examined it for a while before deciding: "MARY-land? No way." He'd never heard of the state of Maryland.

That said, we should take care to remember that not everyone in low-level retail jobs is that stupid. Don't make people's sucky jobs worse by assuming they're morons.

Fake or not, it wouldn't matter

[Decimal Dave]

If the cashier had been correct and there never existed a legal 2 dollar bill, then the man with fake $2 bills would not be committing a crime by using them. You can't counterfeit a bill that doesn't exist. That's how people can pass a 3 dollar "bill" without breaking the law; the cashier would just unknowingly make a barter trade for the purchase.

Re:Fake or not, it wouldn't matter

[Decimal Dave]

"theft by deception"?

You mean I can have used car dealers arrested too?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jdgeorge]

If you're fishing around in your pocket, it's not easy to distinguish them.

Consider that, fishing around in your pocket, a $1 bill bears a striking resemblance to a $50 bill, $20 bill, $10 bill, $5 bill, and $2 bill. Does this make the $1 bill difficult to use or identify?

Numerous people, including myself, use $1 coins on a not regular basis without the "Three Stooges"-esque difficulty you describe. I have never in my life had someone question the validity of a $1 coin that I have used (including the Eisenhower, Susan B Anthony, and Sacagawea coins).

How is this possible? The $1 coins are all easily distinguishable from the quarter. Vending machines that will not take $1 coins, well, won't take them, so no problem there. The only potential problems are with recipients who are ignorant and therefore doesn't realize that there is such a thing as a $1 coin, and people who are too lazy to actually look at the coins they are using as payment.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Restil]

The best buy people got excited because of the excessive number of perfectly legal, yet somewhat unusual bills. So they get the pen out and start marking all of them and manage to smear one and it comes out looking like it might be counterfiet. The cop overreacted a bit and decided, figuring he's not really qualified to determine if the bills are in fact counterfiet or not, considering the pen DID mark it as possible, they'd hold the guy until the secret service gave it their ok, which they did, and even offered up an explaination about the confusion.

The police probably didn't do anything wrong, although what they did was probably unnecessary. Best Buy on the other hand is going to keep a few lawyers employed for the near future.

-Restil

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[dingfelder]

sillyness like this is part of the reason I left the US for NZ.

in NZ, we do not have 1$ or 2$ bills, only 1$ & 2$ coins.

More to the point, we got rid of the 1 cent piece and are in the process of getting rid of the 5 cent piece as well this year, since they are basically worthless.

The problem with US currency is that the govt makes coins like the susan b anthony dollar and then does not push them, so people dont bother using them.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[NanoGator]

"You should try paying in Susan B. Anthony dollars someplace. Even though coins are struck with "One dollar" right on the face, some people insist that they are quarters. Very annoying."

Ugh. I worked at a fortune-500 company (McDonald's, heh.) when the gov't changed he bills to support 'color'. We didn't have a meeting about the new bills until several customers were angered.

Best Buy should bill people randomly

[clambake]

What amazes me most is this guy's willingness to pay a bill that he was expressly told does not exist. I don't know about you, but I'm damn sure that, if Best Buy makes a deal to purchase 100 widgets for $1 each from Acme Corp, and after the widgets arrive Acme Corp sends a bill (with a threat to call the police for non-payment) for $2 per widget, they wouldn't just pay up.

Why is this guy willing to pay for something that he was told was free? Are people really like that? Can I get rich charging random people for stuff that I give them for free?

Where does the stupidity end???

[phillymjs]

I have no problem believing that Best Buy has employees who are ignorant of the existence of $2 bills, but the arresting officer must be the dumbest dumbass on two feet.

Not only didn't he know that currency ink can indeed smear/rub off, but has also apparently never withdrawn money from a bank or bought anything at a store with cash. My local ATM is always giving me brand-new, sequentially-numbered $20 bills, and there have been plenty of times that the local convenience store has given me change in the form of brand-new, sequentially-numbered $1 bills. Furthermore, what counterfeiter in his right mind would fake a seldom-used denomination, AND use it to pay a debt to a merchant who had his contact information? The last thing counterfeiters want is to draw attention to themselves or leave a trail-- they want to spend their bills anonymously and with as little fanfare as possible, and vanish into the crowd.

Just a little bit of reasoning on the part of the cop would have turned this incident into a non-event.

I hope this guy sues the living shit out of Best Buy and the police department, and wins.

~Philly

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[to6o]

Hah, In my home country [Bulgaria] I remeber there was a guy who payed with 2 stotinka [1 cent] coins, it was like a few bags... can you imagine, you need a few people to carry that... but no one made it to jail... hum I guess such a thing can only happen in the US... don't be too paranoid ;)

Knew of a guy who'd do a similar thing.

[Ungrounded Lightning]

I knew of a guy - a Libertarian - who'd do a similar thing.

He'd buy bunches of new two-dollar notes to get fresh ones with consecutive serial numbers. Then he'd take a piece of cardboard the same size as a bill, put a stack of bills on it, and stick one edge together with "padding compound" - the kind of glue used to stick together notepads (and stacks of food stamps).

He'd go out to a restaurant or what have you and, after the meal, would whip out the pad of fresh bills and ask "Do you take Federal Reserve Notes?".

Of course the typical response would be "Is that money?". To this he'd reply "No, but the government says you HAVE to take it."

(What he was alluding to was that, since the switch from Silver Certificates to Federal Reserve Notes, US currency is now unbacked. It is no longer "money" - actual precious metal or a certificate redemable for some - but now "fiat currency" - a promise by the government to use force to make people accept it for payment of debts as if it actually WAS money.)

(As I understand the federal law, if you have a debt and offer Fed notes for payment, if they refuse to take them as payment, your debt is paid AND you get to keep the notes - and you can enforce this in federal court, even if a state court then tries to make you pay again, pay with something else, or sieze your property to pay the debt. {There is a limit, however, on how big a debt you can pay with coins - so don't bring in a barrel of pennies.} But IANAL so don't take that as gospel.)

Re:Knew of a guy who'd do a similar thing.

[DavidTC]

There's no limit on coins, that's just an urban legend.

Some stores don't allow purchases over a certain amount in coins, but they can also legally refuse to take five dollars bills or bills with an odd serial number for purchases. Stores can refuse to sell for any reason at all, barring some forms of discrimination against people forbidden by law. But there are no forms of payment you can't discriminate again.

But, as you point out, they are required to take 'legal tender' in payments of debts, and coins are legal tender. Unless they specifically restrict forms of payment before you incur your debt. (For example, gas stations sometimes restrict you from paying with bills more than fifty over the amount. Although often that sign is in the store, which is idiotic as the debt will be incurred before you go in there, so they can't actually enforce that. Luckily, none of them do anyway.)

And, yes, as far as I know, if you offer to pay in any legal tender, and it is refused, your debt is discharged. Be sure to get a witness.

Re:Knew of a guy who'd do a similar thing.

[Anonymous Coward]

There's no limit on coins, that's just an urban legend.

There is a coin limit in Canada

Re:Knew of a guy who'd do a similar thing.

[Citizen of Earth]

It is no longer "money" - actual precious metal or a certificate redemable for some

I would assume that modern dictionaries define the word "money" to include fiat currencies.

"fiat currency" - a promise by the government to use force to make people accept it for payment of debts as if it actually WAS money.

I don't think that's a definition of fiat currency, either. Canada has fiat currency but does not have a law that requires anyone to accept it, other than banks perhaps.

Re:Knew of a guy who'd do a similar thing.

[DavidTC]

Ah, okay. Didn't know about Canada.

Down here there is not. All US coins are legally tender and can be used to repay all debts, public and private, in any combination.

Re:Knew of a guy who'd do a similar thing.

[mikeplokta]

The limit on coins is not just an urban legend; such a limit exists in the UK, where 20 pence pieces and 50 pence pieces are legal tender in amounts up to 10 pounds, 5 pence pieces and 10 pence pieces are legal tender in amounts up to 5 pounds, and 1 penny pieces and 2 pence pieces are legal tender in amounts up to 20 pence.

Re:Knew of a guy who'd do a similar thing.

[mikeplokta]

If Canada doesn't require you to accept its own currency to settle a debt, what on earth does constitute a legally satisfactory attempt to discharge a debt?

Re:Knew of a guy who'd do a similar thing.

[Motherfucking Shit]

But, as you point out, they are required to take 'legal tender' in payments of debts, and coins are legal tender. Unless they specifically restrict forms of payment before you incur your debt.

This is absolutely correct! Unfortunately, many people don't understand the idea of "debt" as it applies to one-off transactions. They see the word "debt" and think about a mortgage or a credit card, so they wrongfully assume that this law doesn't apply to everyday purchases.

Let me add a couple of examples to further the point that you made.

Scenario 1: You go to the corner store, grab a 6-pack of Heineken, and walk to the checkout counter. The cashier tells you that your total is $7.48. You put four $2 bills on the counter. The cashier says, "We don't take those." The cashier is not violating the law; you have no debt to the store, the beer is still technically theirs. The store is not required to accept any particular form of payment from you.

Scenario 2: You go to the bar, grab a stool, and order a Heineken. The bartender brings it to you, and you drink it. You go to leave, and the bartender tells you that your total is $2.25. You put two $2 bills on the bar (and being a good patron, you tell the bartender to keep the change, of course!). The bartender says, "We don't take those." The bartender is violating the law. When you drank the beer, you incurred a debt to the bar; the bar is now obligated to accept any legal tender as payment.

Re: "the law," it's 31 USC 5103.

Re:Knew of a guy who'd do a similar thing.

[R4quez]

Your story is believable and very interesting up to a point... That point being when you suggested to grab a 6-pack of Heineken! Why oh why??

Re:Knew of a guy who'd do a similar thing.

[Motherfucking Shit]

Your story is believable and very interesting up to a point... That point being when you suggested to grab a 6-pack of Heineken! Why oh why??

Not knowing the reason for your protest, I'll provide several possibly compatible responses:

Answer 1: I couldn't afford a 6-pack of Guinness, so I went with the next best thing.

Answer 2: I would have grabbed a 12-pack, but 12 Heinekens mean that I'll be seriously dehydrated when I wake up, so I had to stick with 6, or else get a 12-pack of Bud.

Answer 3: MADD is an American organization, so getting drunk on beer imported from Holland doesn't count.

Answer 4: I don't know Bill W.

If none of these answers were suitable, feel free to send me a case of your favorite poison... :)

Re:Knew of a guy who'd do a similar thing.

[Citizen of Earth]

If Canada doesn't require you to accept its own currency to settle a debt, what on earth does constitute a legally satisfactory attempt to discharge a debt?

The person who's owed the money wanting to collect the debt? Anyway, I was talking about cash; there may or may not be a law about accepting Canadian currency to settle a debt, though I think that whatever explicit/implicit contract exists between the borrower and the lender stipulates that debt is repayable in Canadian currency, and so, the lender is obligated to live up to his part of the agreement.

However, for instance, my apartment building doesn't accept cash for rent payment and I don't blame them, since if they accepted cash, they could end up with a quarter of a million dollars in the office at the start of every month and that could create a very unsafe working situation for the staff since any and every lunatic with a weapon would be compelled to rob them every month.

Re:Knew of a guy who'd do a similar thing.

[HarryDHatt]

31USC5103 only applies to D.C. and the territories except for the gold and silver coins. Only gold and silver can be made a legal tender in the 50 states. Art. 1, Sec. 10, cl. 1 of the U.S. Constitution trumps and Federal legislation.

Re:Knew of a guy who'd do a similar thing.

[Guido von Guido]

It's not a bad beer if it's been kept out of the light. If you take a six pack directly out of the cardboard box, it shouldn't be skunked like 99% of Heinekens are.

Having said that, it's just another boring lager with an annoying advertising campaign I personally wouldn't waste my time with.

Re:Knew of a guy who'd do a similar thing.

[nbowman]

Not all debts, When my dad built (had built for him really, semantics) his first house he had to pay a school tax of a several thousand, because he is a smartass he decided to pay it in coins, he dragged a couple of sacks of quarters down there, and they promptly refused to accept them, and said they only accepted cashiers checks - no cash of any kind. I dont remember what excuse they used.

Re:Knew of a guy who'd do a similar thing.

[DavidTC]

Did you read the link?

When they refused to accept legal tender, unless they specified otherwise in advance, they violated Federal law and his debt was legally discharged at that point.

It really is that simple. There's no crazy exceptions, unless it's written into the contract.

Re:REAL money

[MacDork]

I'm assuming that currency devaluation is what your particular species of nutjob is worried about, BTW.

He may have been factually incorrect in places, but do we need the name calling? After watching the dollar v. euro for the past couple of years, I'd say concerns about currency devaluation in America are valid. As long as we have our massive trade deficit, things aren't getting any better. Further, if OPEC decided to make the switch to Euros the way Saddam did then governments world wide would no longer be forced to have dollar reserves to buy their oil. A rush to dump newly unnecessary dollar reserves on the market would result in a catastrophic crash of the dollar's value. I'll leave the likelihood of that happening for you two to debate.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Anonymous Coward]

Why don't you buy 8 laptops a day, take them out of the box, drop them and return them?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jacksonj04]

Yes, but given that most things have to accept coins *and* bills, wouldn't it make more sense to replace low-denomination bills with coins?

Visit somewhere in Europe and see how it makes sense.

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[SA Stevens]

If you're REALLY all roused up and furious, don't forget to give ME some $2 bills, too.

Translation: I doubt if a 'protest' where you go to a store and buy stuff 'out of protest' is gonna be very effective.

Best Buy is not a good buy

[John Seminal]

This is not suprising to me at all. I hate best buy. They screwed me once and I will NEVER shop there again. The only times I go in their store is when I want to fuck with their employees, to tie up their time pretending I want to buy stuff. I am what they classify a "Soccer Mom". Or some stupid shit like that. And I love talking with fellow shoppers in their store. I make sure and mention when something is on sale at the Circuit City next door. Then when an employee says "Hi! Can I help you". I respond "You sure can... I have three kids who are dying for a new TV, and DVD's, and a faster computer. I just don't know where to start."

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Mr. Slippery]

I've now got piles of "wheat pennies" that have the two stalks of wheat on the back instead of the building, a few of them made of silver or whatever the non-copper material was

That's the Lincoln Memorial, you know, not just some random building. (Sorry, but if you've never been, IMHO it's a place of such aesthetic power and beauty that it comes close to violating the separation of church and state.)

And the non-copper pennies are steel, produced during or around WWII.

Re:50 cent piece

[p0rnking]

Actually, we do.
I have a few that are 50th anniversary coins.
http://www.answers.com/topic/50-cent-piece
And the one I have, is a bit older, I think it's dated 1967

That is a crime

[John Seminal]

Look on US money. It says for all debts, public and private. If someone refuses your money, sue the son of a bitch.

Re:That is a crime

[DavidTC]

No. Businesses can refuse service for any reason. So you can't walk into Best Buy and sue because they won't take your two dollar bills. They don't have to take anything from you.

Of course, if you've already consumed something, like gas or a meal, and attempt to pay, and they refuse it, feel free to grab a witness to their rejection of your legal tender, and then leave without paying. They can't refuse payment in any legal tender whatsoever for services already rendered unless they've stated so up front. (That's why it talks about all debts, public and private.)

Re:That is a crime

[John Seminal]

No. Businesses can refuse service for any reason. So you can't walk into Best Buy and sue because they won't take your two dollar bills. They don't have to take anything from you.

That is wrong. When a buisness puts a price tag on something, they are making an offer to sell. As soon as you say "i'll buy it" you have entered into a contract. You got them by the balls.

Just remember, they might have the lawyers, but you can have the gasolie. Light the motherfucker up. They wronged you.

Re:That is a crime

[BiggerBoat]

So you can't walk into Best Buy and sue because they won't take your two dollar bills.

Of course you can. You can pretty much sue anyone for any reason. Doesn't mean you'll win, of course.

I agree with the rest of your post, though.

Re:That is a crime

[EvanED]

Not true. When this article was posted to Fark a couple days ago, someone quoted IIRC the US Treasury dept's web page that said explicitly that they do not have to accept anything. (I don't have the link because Fark's database crashed and the last couple days' of data was lost.)

The signs that you see at convienience stores that they don't accept anything above $20s are perfectly fine.

Places can also refuse, say, payments in a ton of pennies.

Re:That is a crime

[DavidTC]

*sigh*

A 'contract' is not the same as an 'offer'. (If you did have a contract at that point, they could sue you if you failed to produce the cash, which they cannot.)

This is how sales work, legally: They make an offer. You accept the offer by actually paying. When they, in return, accept your payment, the sale is made. Any of you can, at any point until your payment is accepted, back out of it. There are no 'contracts' in sales, just an offer and acceptance. (1)

And that doesn't work anyway because oral contracts have the understanding that they are vague, thus 'trickery' is much harder to get away with using them, and contracts that immediately fall into dispute are not important anyway, because no harm has been suffered by anyone.

For example: You're walking down the road, and I ask you to wash my car for five dollars. You agree, I pull out twenty quarters, you refuse to accept them. You know what would happen if I sued you?

Nothing. Your failure to abide by your contract gained you nothing, and didn't harm me at all, except wasting two minutes of everyone's time. We thought we agreed to terms, and then we immediately disagreed before any action was taken, and thus any breach-of-contract case would be dismissed due to lack of damages. If it had been a written contract that specificed '$5', I might have gotten something, but the vagueness of an oral contract stops that idea.

And that whole concept is idiotic, anyway. To have a 'debt' for goods would require you get the cashier to promise to give the goods now and get paid later (Even if 'later' is 'one minute from now.), which would be a really idiotic thing for a clerk to agree to. And even if they agreed to that, they wouldn't actually do that, so you couldn't have a debt! You'd just have a contract breach, which, like I said, is not helpful.

Of course, you could then sue them to get the goods for the agreed upon amount, and you might or might not win, but as this entire premise is about you tricking them into getting them for free, I fail to see what good spending hundreds on lawyers would be. Even assuming you 'win' the case and the court 'forces' the store to sell fifty dollars worth of stuff for fifty dollars, which it was trying to do in the first place.

1) As an aside, the price tag on an item is not an offer. The offer is made when the cashier says you have to pay X money for these goods on the counter that were just tallied up.

Re:That is a crime

[rynthetyn]

Ah, but among the completely useless information that I know for no particular reason is that in at least some places, if you are on probation, you can not pay your probation fees in cash--they will only take money orders, despite the fact that it says legal tender for all debts.

Re:That is a crime

[Babbster]

Here is a link to the FAQ page you're talking about.

To summarize, "legal tender" means that US currency is to be considered a legally valid OFFER for payment. Whether someone is willing to accept that offer is entirely up to them. In other words, not only can a place refuse to accept $50 in pennies as payment for an item but they can, theoretically, REQUIRE you to pay only in pennies for your purchase.

That being said, if a B&M store isn't willing to take my $2 bills (however they happened to arrive in my wallet) in payment, then they can just lose my business. Restrictions on large numbers of pennies (or even nickels) I consider reasonable, "nothing over a $20 bill" I consider reasonable, etc. In other words, give me a good reason and I'll modify my payment. If a business refuses to accept my payment because they don't believe $2 bills are circulated by the Department of Treasury, then that's not a good reason.

I have to say, though, that the guy in the article, despite being technically "in the right," was purposely being an asshole and he knew it. He clearly keeps $2 bills on hand because he knows that few people see them and either a) likes to educate people that, yes, $2 bills are real or more likely b) wants to have them around so that he can make his little "protests" like this one. He probably already KNEW that most places won't take - and don't have to take - thousands of coins as payment and that's the only reason he doesn't keep carefully counted jars of pennies around to screw with people.

If he was really convinced he was in the right and WASN'T an asshole, he would have gone down to the store, asked to speak to the manager and explained his understanding of the situation. If they still threatened to call the police because of non-payment, he could have then invited them to do so (whereupon the police would have laughed and told the manager that it was time for small claims court). THAT is the way to protest against threats like that. Going down and paying a charge you don't feel you owe in $2 bills is what I call "being a little bitch."

Re:That is a crime

[jonadab]

> "nothing over a $20 bill" I consider reasonable, etc.

Depends. At a place that takes thousands of dollars into the drawer every day, you expect to be able to spend a $100 bill (though the cashier may look at it for an extra few seconds or get out one of those pens).

However, at a place that doesn't handle so much money, you can't expect them to take the larger denominations. For example, I work at a public library, and whenever people try to pay their fines with a $100, we direct them to the bank. We don't have that kind of change if we pooled all the money in the building, including what's in the librarians' purses. This occasionally annoys people, because the $100 is all they've got on them, but we just don't keep that kind of cash around. We would take a $100, if someone were paying a large fine (say, over $80), but we don't have $90 in change to give out, sorry.

Re:That is a crime

[DavidTC]

Yes, I know. I was just responding to the goober who thinks you have, or can get, an oral contract at the cash register, and thus force them to accept legal tender, or, if they refuse, have your debt discharged. Which you can't, purchases don't work that way.

In this specific case, yes, that was a debt, and yes, they can't refuse payment in legal tender unless they specifically stated so up front.

Re:That is a crime

[DavidTC]

You shouldn't do that, legally they could argue their debt was discharged when they attempted to pay you and you refused it. You cannot refuse legal tender for a debt unless stated in advance.

OTOH, if you tell them if they pay with a 100, you will only be able to give them 36 dollars back, and you would have to owe them the rest, you're legally covered.

Nothing requires you to have any money at all laying around, so if they don't pay in exact change, they're running the risk you will have to owe them money.

Re:That is a crime

[Babbster]

So, does that mean that if I carry around a bunch of old $1,000 bills and offer them as payment I get to magically discharge any debts I have when people won't take them? I don't think so. If so, I'd certainly like to see the applicable law on the subject.

See my link again. The library could tell a person that they'll only accept a MONEY ORDER for the fine if they wanted to, never mind restricting payments to $20 bills or smaller. They don't lose the right to enforce the debt just because they won't take a C-note.

Re:That is a crime

[DavidTC]

No. Someone can always refuse to sell to you for almost any reason, barring the few forms of discrimination barred by law.

However, what they cannot do is refuse to accept legal tender as payments for debts. If, for example, you eat a meal, and that meal had the list price of '$23' dollars, you now have a 'private debt' of 23 dollars. (Plus tax, but in reality you don't owe them the tax, even thought they collect it for you.)

Federal law: 'United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues.'

What does mean? Tender is anything you offer to pay anything. 'legal tender for debts' is just something that legally, is regarded as tender for all debts. (Duh.) They can legally require payment in sheep, and that's fine, but if they specify '$23' and have no more restrictions in it, cash is legal tender. So your offer of a thousand dollar bill is legal tender.

U.C.C. - ARTICLE 3 - NEGOTIABLE INSTRUMENTS , PART 6. DISCHARGE AND PAYMENT
3-603. TENDER OF PAYMENT.
(b) If tender of payment of an obligation to pay an instrument is made to a person entitled to enforce the instrument and the tender is refused, there is discharge, to the extent of the amount of the tender, of the obligation of an indorser or accommodation party having a right of recourse with respect to the obligation to which the tender relates.

That's the UCC, so doesn't apply in every single state, but every state has something like that. Note that while states can change that part of the law, they cannot change the Federal statue, and they can't define anything else except gold or silver as legal tender. (If the state didn't ahve something like that, banks could refuse your house payments and foreclose on your house, rightly insisting you hadn't paid the required amounts, and all sorts of surreal stuff.)

Anyway, if you attempt to pay off a debt in legal tender (Any legal tender at all.), and they refuse it, the matter is closed, at least for the amount you tried to pay. If you attempt to pay for your meal using enough legal tender, and they refuse, the matter is close. 'If tender...is made...and the tender is refused, there is discharge, to the extent of the amount of the tender'.

Note they are under no legal obligation to make change for you.

no place to put them?

[artifex2004]

I can't say it really bothered me other then there isn't a place in the till to put them.

Why don't cashiers just stick them under the tray, like coupons, $50s, or other unusual things they have to keep track of?

Re:no place to put them?

[DavidTC]

Many cashiers pull two bucks out of their own waller, stick it in the till, and keep the two. They no longer have to worry about it, and they have a neat two dollar bill.

Re:no place to put them?

[stanmann]

Every time I spend one that is exactly what happens, usually followed by "WHERE DO YOU GET THOSE THEY ARE COOL"

About your tagline:

[SA Stevens]

Yep. Certainly it's cooler than running a 'nux.

What did he expect?

[justthisdude]

While he didn't deserve to be arrested, he wasn't exactly innocent: when you do something deliberately provocative, how surprised can you be when you provoke a response? Yes, the cashier way overreacted, but the man was looking for some kind of reaction. He was mad, so he found a way to show-up the cashier for a fool. He just didn't bargain on how big a fool, or on so many fools at once.

I am saying this as someone who has done a lot of stupid, provocative things in my life: I once pretended a cardboard poster tube was a bazooka in front of an armored car driver. He did get a really funny scared expression on his face, then reached for his gun before seeing my trick. I laughed, but he stayed calm and pointed out how my survival had depended on his not being a fool. I took that to heart and thanked god for my limited success that day. I'm not saying I don't still provoke people for the sheer pleasure of it (especially when they piss me off), I am just saying that I don't pretend I am innocent if it backfires on me.

Now it's fun to laugh at the morons out there who don't know the finer points of US currency, or tell the school bully "his epidermis is showing", just be ready to acknowledge your complicity in the ass-whooping you might eventually get.

Re:What did he expect?

[pimpinphp]

Oh come on. He used 2 dollar bills not pennies or food stamps. Hardly provocative. Blaming this guy for this is like blaming a rape victim because she was dressed hot. Yeah she is looking for a response but if someone is a nut job was she asking for it? And yes he is the victim of a crime he was wrongfully detained and could file charges.

Re:What did he expect?

[fishbowl]

" While he didn't deserve to be arrested, he wasn't exactly innocent: "

Not guilty of a crime is, precisely and exactly, "innocent."

Your ethos may allow for gray areas, but we're talking about laws, police, handcuffs, jails, statements made by managers to the authorities, and the obligations of a creditor (disclosure, legal tender) here.

Your bazooka example might be different. If you make a reasonble person reasonably believe that his life or property is in danger, in some situations, you have committed aggravated assault (what you did would be a felony in Arizona), and you may even have given him the justification for the use of force to stop you.

Re:What did he expect?

[kelzer]

Now it's fun to laugh at the morons out there who don't know the finer points of US currency . . .

Not to mention the morons out there who would point a cardboard poster tube, like a bazooka, at an armed armored card driver.

That's a great way to win a Darwin award! ;)

Re:What did he expect?

[corsican]

Not guilty of a crime is, precisely and exactly, "innocent."Nope. It's precisely and exactly "not guilty." Innocence is a moral state, not a legal one. No court will ever find anyone "innocent."

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Gonarat]

No choice either, there are no $1 or $2 bills anymore.


That's about the only way a dollar coin will work in the U.S. As long as the $1 is available, it will be used instead of whatever dollar coin comes out. I'm not so sure about the $2 bill since it has never been that popular, but I don't imagine that it will suddenly become more popular that a $1 coin.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Waffle Iron]

Consider that, fishing around in your pocket, a $1 bill bears a striking resemblance to a $50 bill, $20 bill, $10 bill, $5 bill, and $2 bill. Does this make the $1 bill difficult to use or identify?

Yes it does. Most countries aren't so silly as to make all of their bill denominations the same size and color. But that's another rant.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Gilmoure]

They could create a coin that was worth as much as a dollar. It could be called a dollar coin. That would be neat.

Greatest part about two doller bills:

[Anonymous Coward]

...they look like five doller bills in a strip club ;)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[fm6]

How quickly they forget! The UK used to be famous for its confusing assortment of coins. Then you guys went decimal back in the 70s, and got rid of all your shillings, half-crowns and what not. So you've only had about 30 years to accumulate obsolete coins that should be withdrawn.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Sebby]

Then I guess I can't try to pass those GWB coins I've got that are legal tender only in Lutheniawaniea (or where ever it is) :)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[JanneM]

Consider that, fishing around in your pocket, a $1 bill bears a striking resemblance to a $50 bill, $20 bill, $10 bill, $5 bill, and $2 bill. Does this make the $1 bill difficult to use or identify?

Yes, it does. Most other countries use different sizes or relief printing so they are distinguishable by feel. You may not have a problem; consider people with poor eyesight, however, or situations in low-light.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Anonymous Coward]

I guess my point is: try not to confuse the poor cashier.

I think I'm going the exact opposite way. I don't buy much at Best Buy anyway but next time I do, I'm stopping by my bank and getting a bunch of $2 bills to do it with.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[ender-]

Personally I find it much easier to flip through a wad of "same-sized" bills [not that I ever HAVE that much money].
When I went to Italy, I had a bitch of a time dealing with all that odd-sized money.

Now I do agree that perhaps we should look into using different colors.

Ender-

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[bluGill]

The US government is well known around the world for NOT changing their currency. Anything minted since the last 1800s is still legal. This is a good thing when your currency is a standard around the world, everyone recognizes it (well everyone where the black market is significant, I suspect western Europe doesn't care cause they have a useful currency). Of course the downside is those old bills are easy to counterfit. Still by not eliminating the old currency they do help the acceptance of the dollar around the world, which is a feature.

There are not many different coins of the same denomination. The 50 cent piece hasn't been made in years, it has been phased out just like your currency, the only difference is we never quit accepting it, we just quit using it. Everything else has only seen minor changes since the late 1800s. (sometimes one face changes. the metal in some of them changed, but overall everything looks similar to what they made 100 years ago

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[Hatta]

It's a well known fact that Best Buy hires only the stupidest people it can find, but a cop ought to at least know what currencies are legal.

The police don't hire smart people either. cite

Amen...

[Whyte]

"I'm finding better deals and less hassle through online stores anyway."

Specifically the store manager needs to be sacked for not handling this in a more diplomatic fashion. Unless this guy represented a threat to the people in the store (someone being accused of counterfeiting $2 bills doesn't initially strike me as being a violent threat), the store manager should have asked the police officer and the man to come to the manager's office. This stuff should always be conducted in a more private setting, but at the least away from other customers.

This is the type of manager that would allow a warrant enforcement officer to serve a warrant on a cashiers on the floor while that cashier is working the till. Way to build customer and employee confidence jackass.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Daemonik]

Yes, but given that most things have to accept coins *and* bills, wouldn't it make more sense to replace low-denomination bills with coins? Visit somewhere in Europe and see how it makes sense.

Look, it works for us so leave it alone. You might as well ask why people still use money instead of debit cards pulling directly from their banks.

Also, many vending machines were altered to accept the Sacagawea dollar coins but the coins were never accepted by the public any more than we accepted the Susan B. Anthony dollar coins.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[MarksManB]

Is there any reason why all this currency is kept as legal tender? Yes, because it's legal tender. It will never be considered non-legal tender. This was one of the foundations of this country. Every time you think to yourself, "Why do the States do things so differently than the UK?" remember why we're NOT part of the UK. How would you like to wake up tomorrow to find that you money has been totally replaced?? ....wait, that actually happened to you, didn't it? Well, it won't happen here!

Its your age

[bluGill]

I don't have a reference, but studies have shown that people tend to learn currency as a kid, and then don't bother learning again. What this means is that if you grew up before the Susan B. (or after it), you never learned to tell the difference. If you were learning your currency when the Susan B. was introduced (which I did, but there were only about 2-3 years where this would be true) you learned the difference between the Susan B and Quarter, and you can automatically tell without problem!

That is one reason countries that introduce new currency tend to replace all the old ones at the same time (IE the Euro replaced a lot of different national currencies), it forces everyone to learn the new system, instead of being lazy and failing to shoe horn one new currency in with what they know.

Re:Its your age

[mikeplokta]

It's lucky for me (and everyone else in the UK) that those "studies" are not true (or don't exist). In my lifetime:

Five and ten pence coins introduced to replace one and two shillings (1968)
Halfpenny withdrawn (1969)
Half crown withdrawn (1970)
Twenty pound note issued (1970)
Currency goes decimal (1971): Penny, threepence and ten shilling note withdrawn; new half penny, penny, two pence and fifty pence coins issued
Ten pound note issued (1975)
Old (pre-decimal) sixpence withdrawn (1980)
Fifty pound note issued (1981)
Twenty pence and one pound coins issued (1982)
One pound note withdrawn (1984)
Half penny coin withdrawn (1984)
Five pence coin reissued at a smaller size (1990)
Ten pence coin reissued at a smaller size (1992)
Fifty pence coin reissued at a smaller size (1997)
Two pound coin issued (1998)

And strangely enough, I still know my currency.

Re:Its your age

[scruffyMark]

Another counterpoint - in Canada, they've been issuing new bills lately. I think the history is something like this

• 1987 - one dollar coins start being minted.
• 1989 - one dollar bills go out of production
• 1996 - two dollar bills go out of production, two dollar coins start being minted.
• 2001 - new design for the $10 bill
• 2002 - new design for the $5 bill
• 2004 - new designs for the $100, $20 and $50 bills

And apparently this year they're going to come out with a new $10 bill, which will have new security features that were added to the new fives and later. The new bills have some raised dots on them for the blind to tell them apart (they aren't different sizes, which might be the other way of doing it)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Surt]

I have to back up the grandparent. The $1 are frequently mistaken for quarters. I've had to argue with cashiers at no less than 5 different locations about their value.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[cerebis]

Why is it that in the USA, the $50 and $100 bill are considered large bills and treated strangely by cashiers?

I think it's the only country (and the wealthiest) I've visited where these fairly practical denominations are looked upon as something you don't pay with, unless perhaps the bill is quite large (like in the hundreds). My hotel Starbucks for instance refused a $50 (saying they don't accept anything over $20) when I tried to pay a bill in the neighbourhood of $15. That's not very handy when Australian banks hand you US $50s and $100s if you arrange to get a few hundred dollars in cash before flying over.

Is it an acknowledgement that US currency has weak anti-counterfeiting measures? I mean weak in comparison to the active effort to counterfeit the currency. Microsoft might use that argument to deflect criticism, but it ultimately doesn't change the fact a problem exists.

What's the point - boycotting them already

[davidwr]

Due to numerous incidence of poor customer service aimed at others, a several-hundred-dolloar-one of I witnessed, I'm boycotting them.

Not much more harm I can do to them, legally.

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[derflammenhund]

In Maryland (god bless its backward Common Law nature), county police handle arrests and law enforcement, while the sheriffs run the jails and execute and serve warrants. In his case, he would have been arrested by the county police or state troopers, but the sheriffs rarely if ever arrest people.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[FunFactor100]

A buddy of mine keeps saying that he thinks we should get rid of the penny in Canada. However it's recently come to my attention that in order to produce a penny it costs 0.8 cents...so when the government owned mint produces a penny, they sell it to the banks for 1 cent thus profiting 0.2 cents, or a whopping 20%.

The production of paper money on the other hand actually COSTS the goverment (and taxpayers) money considering they borrow it from a third party (the bank of Canada and Fed are privately owned companies regardless of their name), but that's another issue all together.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[uhlume]

You left the US because you didn't like the coinage?

wow

[mike518]

WOW.

best buy hits an even newer and lower low.

and they blame "demon" customers... sigh.

Nuclear war and $2 bills plus a link

[etnad2]

Here is a short article on the Mount Pony facility: http://www.brook.edu/fp/projects/nucwcost/mtpony.H TM The Bureau of Engraving and printing link for buying uncut sheets of $2 bills (last series printed in 2003): http://www.moneyfactory.com/store/section.cfm/69/8 4

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[bluGill]

More like you have the market on interesting common coins covered. Not cornered, most of the coins you listed are fairly common yet, and so not very valuable. (Though I have never seen a Buffalo Nickel, and some of the others might be slightly uncommon) Mind everything is worth more than face value, but generally not by enough to care unless that is the one coin you need to complete a collection.

Keep that collection though. It may not be very valuable, but a lot of them are the more interesting samples (which is part of why you kept them). Personally I'd rather have that collection than a million dollar penny. (1943 copper pennys are worth a lot, but they look just like 1940 pennys except for the date. Only 3 are known to exist which is why they are worth money. I'll stick with my 1940 penny for my collection)

FUD

[ari_j]

Ever wonder why thing cost so much these days? It is because consumers have to bear the weight of these constant lawsuits.

This is FUD, largely from the Republican Party and the big business that they represent. (Note: I am not a Democrat or a Republican. I also do not troll against either party. I even support the Iraq war. But there are two things I hate about the Republican Party right now: the Patriot Act, and this.)

Read some actual documentation of all this. Tort "reform," medical malpractice caps, punitive damage caps, and limits on class action do nothing but help big businesses get away with hurting the little guy. Those big businesses sue each other more than any individuals sue them, and that's where the problems are. Getting the small individual suits out of the court system just clears up more space on the docket for business-versus-business lawsuits to fill in.

Here
The bank's practice was alleged to be of the following pattern: wait until after the cutoff to go get the mail with your payment in it. Then, if your payment got in on the due date, it would be posted the next day and they'd get a $10 late fee from you. They do this millions of times a year, but each person is only out $10. Since you can't file a class action lawsuit, you have to find a lawyer who will take your case. Yeah, right.

The ND Supreme Court was asked by the Central District of California (federal trial court) whether this clause in the contract was unconscionable, which is legalese for "so unfair that it won't be enforced." And the ND Supreme Court decided it wasn't, so it must be enforced. One ND lawyer I talked to called it the worst opinion that court has come up with in 20 years.

So what you have is millions of people, all of them out $10 with nothing they can do about it. According to your logic, that is the way it should be, because otherwise the customers would be paying increased fees at the bank to cover the lawsuits. Guess what? Some people already are paying the bank, but in a completely underhanded manner.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[DavidTC]

The pens do not smear ink. Having the ink smear when you use them has nothing to do with anything.

Those almost completely worthless pens are supposed to make a black mark if it's printed on paper, as opposed to the fabric actual bills are printed on. They're just iodine! It reacts with paper and turns black. They aren't some magical counterfit detecting thing.

Having smeared ink on money is rare, but it happens. If you get it, you should take it to the bank and they'll replace it. It's not very common sign of counterfitting...counterfitters don't use ink that runs either.

Oh, and I love the concept that sequential bill numbers are somehow suspicious. Yeah, the counterfitters have the ability to change numbers (Which many do not), and decided they'd make it easy on themselves by counting in one direction, instead of just picking random numbers. Riiiight.

Sequential bill numbers are the opposite of suspicious WRT counterfitting, the only way you get those is at a bank, and banks do not get counterfit money from the mint. (He might have robbed a bank, but that's an entire different matter.)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[fribhey]

sillyness like this is part of the reason I left the US for NZ. in NZ, we do not have 1$ or 2$ bills, only 1$ & 2$ coins.

so part of the reason you left the US is because we have $1 & $2 bills instead of coins????? that has to be the dumbest thing i have ever heard.

Discharge of debt ?

[baomike]

In some jurisdictions, if you offer to pay a bill/debt in legal tender and it is refused, the debt can be cancelled. He should look into this.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[mike518]

your implying that /.ers already buy from best buy... you silly silly person

if i wanted to pay retail +10% +Tax or more, id go to comp usa and get a properly price screwed.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Phil Karn]

Even scarier is the closing quote from the police spokesman: "It's a sign that we're all a little nervous in the post-9/11 world."

Excuse me, but how exactly does one equate suspected small-scale counterfeiting with hijacking airliners, flying them into buildings and killing thousands of people?

If this signifies anything, it's how, in the post-9/11 world, American society has gotten so moronic, brow-beaten and petrified that cops seriously expect us to buy such a flimsy excuse for their Gestapo tactics.

By the way, I went to grade school in Cockeysville, MD. My parents live only a few miles away. I'll make sure they avoid that particular store.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[itzdandy]

redundant details

centi = 1/100
centimeter = 1/100 of a meter
cent(-i) = 1/100 of $1

deci = 1/10
decimeter = 1/10 of a meter, or 10 centimeters.
deci is evolved to dime. it is a made up word for the occasion but based on metric deci and denar among others.

quarter is a fraction of course. 1/4 of 1 dollar

Re:REAL money

[MoralHazard]

Really, the "nutjob" comment wasn't on account of his worries about the dollar's value. Those are fair enough, I'll admit, though the Euro zone has its own set of risks, not the least of which being that the European central banks have been having problems maintaining fiscal restraint.

No, the "nutjob" appelation is strictly for comments like this:

America hasn't has a real currency since leaving the gold standard (1933) and silver standard (1970-71 right?). It's a shame to realize that the largest counterfeit agency is still the federal reserve (which by the way is a private company and NOT a true part of the federal government... much like federal express is not a government agency).

Huh? Calling the Fed the "largest counterfeit agency"? A private company, right, the head of which is appointed by the president of the USA?

The Fed is more like the Post Office or something than the IRS, but that doesn't mean it's not part of the government. Or how about this:

I'm serious people... US paper money isn't real money! I wish I could arrest people for paying me in that worthless crap

Sounds like he's about three standard deviations to the right of Pat Buchanan, and three to the crazy of Sideshow Bob.

Plus, did you check the link in his .sig? That alone is worth a couple of laughs.

Posssibly... POSSIBLY... he's also a clever little troll. The website is just wacky enough.

No accident

[Muhammar]

Best Buy has a policy of "emphateticaly disengaging" their difficult customers. Leg restraints are emphatetic.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[racermd]

Pardon me for interjecting, but I did RTFA a day or two ago when this appeared elsewhere...

The basic sequence of events were as follows:

1: Disgruntled customer arrives at store intending to pay invoice with $2 bills.

2: Employee isn't familiar with the $2 bill and refuses to accept as payment.

3: Fast-forward - Police arrive to sort the matter out. Ink on the bills smears a bit. Suspicions of counterfit money result.

4: Customer is handcuffed and brought to police station for further questioning/investigation.

5: U.S. Secret Service agents (yes, the're the final authority on U.S. currency) arrive and release customer after bills are inspected and found to be completely legit.

In this particular case, the local police probably knew about $2 as legitimate U.S. currency, but were suspicious when the ink on the bills smeared a bit. After the Secret Service inspected the bills, they informed the local police (paraphrasing), "They do that, sometimes."

Under the circumstances, the whole situation could have been avoided by a little education on the part of the Best Buy cashier. I still think this needs to be done, and rather painfully. However, the local police seemed to follow proper protocol. Ink on U.S. currency doesn't usually smear or smudge because it's usually handled often enough for the excess to wear off quickly. The $2 is not generally handled as much and this seems to be a perfect example of why it isn't.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[el-spectre]

Coins are more expensive to make (both in material and actual money), are bulkier (this more difficult/expensive to ship) and heavy. So no, paper currency isn't likely to go anywhere.

Of course, flattening a dollar bill on a railroad track isn't NEARLY as impressive.

That said, these guys use dollar coins exclusively I believe: http://www.libertydollar.org/

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[tehcrazybob]

I live in America, but I recently visited a friend in the UK. I was surprised at first, when I realized that there was not a £1 bill. After using the currency for just a day, though, I saw the benefit to the system. Coins are much more durable than bills, and the £1 coin is a hefty thing that's almost fun to carry.

On top of that, it just seems more convenient to use. Most of the time, when you make a small purchase, it's a lot easier to reach into a pocket and pull out a few coins than to get out the wallet and find a bill in there.

This is especially true when you look at just how little you can get for $1 or even £1. We would never dream of having a 25 cent bill, because the money is worth so little that it would be inconvenient to use or carry a reasonable amount in bills. Bills should only be used for more expensive things, because they are less convenient and the more times they trade hands, the more likely they are to be torn or otherwise ruined.

When you go buy a large ice cream cone, and you get $3.50 back from your $5, which is easier?
-Put 50 cents in pocket, then juggle cone to put $3 back into wallet and put wallet back into pocket
or
-Put handful of coins into pocket

I had a similiar experience

[Raul654]

On a trip to Washington, I toted along my brand new digital Camera. (I later put them on Wikipedia). This one got me into a wee bit of trouble. While I was waiting for a friend of mine to arrive, I took a couple of pictures of the waiting area in Greenebelt station of the Washington Metro. A minute or two later, a security guard comes up and asks what I'm doing. I tell him I was just taking a picture. He tells me that I need permission to photograph, and that if I want permission to take pictures, I need to get permission from "downtown".

Re:I had a similiar experience

[Raul654]

I'm white (of Italian descent)

Re:I had a similiar experience

[Tim C]

And you need to realise that people visiting tourist attractions take photos. Hell, I've seen some tourists taking photos of the strangest things - photographing a station you're passing through is *nothing*.

It's all very well to be vigilant, etc, but not if that comes at the cost of pissing off and/or worrying/frightening every single tourist that you see with a camera.

Christ people; if you jump at the slightest thing, then the terrorists have already won.

Re:I had a similiar experience

[Raul654]

Just listen to what you are saying - anyone with a camera in a public place is now a suspected terrorist! That is a VERY DANGEROUS attitude to have - that is how dictatorships are born.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[thogard]

In which case the officer should have said, We need to make sure we can find you until the SS decides and you can do this the easy way or the hard way. They didn't need the cuffs and all they needed to was ask him to wait at the police station until the SS showed up.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[WIAKywbfatw]

Fool, since decimalisation occured, the 1/2 pence coin was withdrawn, the 5 pence and 10 pence coins have been changed (they're smaller now than they were in, say, the 1980s), the 20 pence, one pound and two pound coints have been introduced. Five pound coins also exist, but are very rare: they're predominantly minted to celebrate special anniversaries and events and are mostly of interest to coin collectors.

The grandparent post wasn't referring to the change in coinage that took place when decimalisation took place, he was referring to the change in coinage (and notes - none of the existing note designs is more than about a decade old, and the three most common are all less than six years old) that has taken place since that time.

Is New Mexico in the USA?

[baomike]

A lot of people don't think so , look at a New Mexico license plate, it says NEW MEXICO USA

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[el-spectre]

Damnit, the site changed. OK, they HAVE a dollar bill, but the coins are used more.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Necrobruiser]

He'd never heard of the state of Maryland.
I have had people ask me where I grew up, and when responded that I grew up in Vermont, they asked me what state that was in.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Math, The Ancient]

I like this idea.

Not Posted yet!!

[SingleCube]

I have gotten sheets of 2 dollars bills before (thinking 16 per sheet been a few years). Took out scissors and cut off individual bills. Talk about funny looks. One lady destroyed one in front of me and called the manager but he knew me.

Didn't see any comments on this so...

[ebrandsberg]

http://www.woz.org/letters/general/78.html

VERY funny read, about Woz and his stack of perforated two dollar bills he carries around.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[NoMercy]

Well actually, even 30 yearold coins arn't legal anymore, the 50p, 10p, 5p, 2p and 1p coins have changed and the 1/2p has been phased out, all of the notes have changed over the years, the latest incarnations including holograms, which helps a bit as people don't spend so long checking there legal, used to be quite embarising with people holding things up to the light to check the metal strip and watermark.

I think the only coins which have remained the same from the decimialisation until now are the 20p and the pound coin, no doubt the'll have there sights on changing the 20 :)

Problem is the dolar is now so wide spread, it'd be an almost impossible task to replace all of them, mabie someone will but it'd take at least 20 years to get near 100% usage of the new notes.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[JabberWokky]

I once had a new waitress loudly complaining in the background as I paid my bill that I left her a dollar for tip (which actually would have been $1.25, since there were five coins). As I left, I quietly informed the manager who was checking me out that the coins were dollar coins (I was a regular and not only did he know me, but he also knew I left dollar coins for tip sometimes). He looked at me, blinked, realized the waitress was theatrically complaining aloud to chastise me, and said, "well, we'll just have a little talk with her about how tips work". I saw her once more and she either quit or was fired after that. She didn't seem to popular among the other waitresses either.

Some people are just stupid. Not bothering to check what kind of coin they are holding is par for the course in their lives.

--
Evan

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Burpmaster]

A penny, nickel, dime, quarter, and half-dollar...

Am I the only one who expected to see that followed by "walk into a bar"?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[rapidweather]

A few years back, Banks did have the Susan B. Anthony dollar coin, and one could easily get a hundred or two of them for a purpose such as this.

It is unfortunate for Best Buy that this happened to them, and got picked up on Slashdot. All because of the actions of one clerk. It could happen to any retailer, most of which are not of particular interest to those of us who work with computers, as a hobby, or for a living.

One wonders where the manager was? I've shopped at Walmart, and the cashiers are backed up by watchful managers, right there, to prevent something like this getting out of control. Not only does the business have a right to a peaceful place in which to conduct business, but the shoppers do too. I would rather not go in a store, and come across a situation like this, that could escellate into a dangerous confrontation. That may have been why the man was arrested, not just because of the money.

Imagine going into a computer store with a sackful of the Susan B. Anthony coins, and buying something. Most cashiers would just put up with you, and go ahead and accept your payment. But, a customer putting up a fuss while making a purchase, with an obvious delaying tactic such as unusual money, is out of line. On the cashiers side, they are held accountable for their cash-drawer, and they could be fired or forced out for shortages over time. So, they can get a little unhappy with customers that have a statement like this to present, at their expense, and the other customers waiting in the line.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[daedalus-prime]

Visit somewhere in Europe and see how it makes sense.

You don't need to go that far. Canada uses $1 coins (aka Loonies) and $2 coins (Toonies)...

Re:Have you heard?

[Chicago Wolves]

That's not my bird... O.O

I submited this a day ago and it was regected.

[olddotter]

But I'm glad it finnally got more exposure, because poor service from large companies needs all the bad press we can give it. Sadly its the only way they will be motivated to improve, which is good for us all.

Re:I submited this a day ago and it was regected.

[pentalive]

Open Note to Best Buy:

Have a $2.00 sale! Everthing in the store, 2% off if a $2.00 bill is used to pay.

This would be a great way to overcome the bad press you're getting.

Are you listening?

Where's the fun

[blonde rser]

Maybe it's just me but I don't get it. Where's the fun in paying with $2 bills? It seems the only reason to do that is you can force others into a conflict where you will be proven right in the end. I understand confronting people and then being proven right. But egging others into a conflict? That just seems wheeny.

Not only do I not get the humour but I get the outrage even less. Why do people get mad when they spend two dollar bills and the seller doesn't recognize it as legal tender. By very nature of the fact that the spender is going out of his way to get two dollar bills he has to recognize that they are rarely used and many don't know they exist. Don't you give up your right to be outraged by people questioning your actions when you've chosen actions just so that they would raise questions?

If you enjoy creating conflict with these kinds of stunts then fine. I mean I still don't get it but your fun doesn't seem to harm anyone. But if you're going to get angry when people respond to the bait that you are laying out for them then why do it? And I certainly don't think there's any reason to have empathy for you if you do get exactly the responce you were hoping for.

Re:Where's the fun

[mrchaotica]

It was Best Buy that he was trying to piss off.

Re:Where's the fun

[fishbowl]

"Legal tender. Lets think carefully of those two words. Um... nope, don't give up any rights when using $2 bills."

They don't confer as many rights as you seem to believe. Specifically, they do not empower the customer to demand to make a purchase, and they do not compel a merchant to accept them, except in the narrowly constrained case of payment of a debt.

If I go to a lunch counter, order a taco, the cashier asks for $1.00, they can refuse to accept a $50, or a $2 bill, or anything else. But if I go to a restaurant, sit down, order eat a meal, and am then given a bill, I've entered into a contract and incurred a debt, which does place certain obligations on the restaurant to accept my legal tender in payment of the debt, and in some places, refusing legal tender in payment of a debt is to be construed as the debt being forgiven.

Re:Where's the fun

[zakezuke]

Maybe it's just me but I don't get it. Where's the fun in paying with $2 bills?

What's the fun in paying with $2.00 bills?

They are a symbol of fighting beurocrasy. Think about it. Everyone complains about the fact that there is no place in a cash register for the $2.00 yet we've had the samed sized two since 1929. It's not like the money handlers haven't had enough time to update the cash register to reflect the type of currency issued by our own goverment. When you give a two dollar bill, it's giving them a reminder that they have had 75 years to accomidate it and it's their own damn fault they can't deal with it. You give a two, and they will remember you, and what you said. Or if nothing else, they remembered some jackass paid with twos.

Personaly I don't care that much. I give out twos only when I happen to get them back as change, which happens often enough.

Re:Where's the fun

[owlstead]

Yes, you don't get it. These bills are a legal tender, and the shop (e.g. the manager) needs to be aware of this fact. I mean, that's their business, isn't it, accepting money for stuff people buy.

Furthermore, he did it to show that he wasn't happy with the fact that they put a bill on him. If he was right, I don't know, but I think it got there attention just fine. Obviously the arrest was very illegal and the guy should take further action - at least against the police force.

One thing I can't abide is people not knowing their own business. The cops and the store manager should have known better. This story is as rediculous as the fact that the bills actuall *can* smear. I mean, for gods sake, we're talking about badly printed money there.

Re:Where's the fun

[entrigant]

Presume much? The conflict was already there. He didn't have to seek it out at all. If you recall he did this because Best Buy charged him a feee that he claims is not legit.

Re:Where's the fun

[wagebo]

Ummm... Where should he have used they're (they are) or there (as in look over THERE)? Just wondering

Re:Where's the fun

[ediron2]

No argument from me. But I didn't say 'confer rights'... I said 'don't give up any rights'. That was *specifically* what GP claimed. They can't really believe that we should tiptoe around this confederacy of dunces because being smarter than a box of hair (or enjoying the novelty of $1 coins and $2 bills) somehow has become a liability that strips away one's rights. That remains the dumbest damn thing I've ever heard, and (as a slashdot regular) that's saying a lot.

Oh, and what's your IPALO/. wisdom with respect to unreasonable arrest or seizure law? Surely one is protected from false arrest (or whatever) (IRANAL) when using $2 bills, no?

Re:Where's the fun

[MintyGreen]

Ummm... Where should he have used they're (they are) or there (as in look over THERE)? Just wondering

No, GGP used "there" when he should have used "their:"

If he was right, I don't know, but I think it got there attention just fine.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[TexVex]

I'm sure half of Slashdot chatterers had the same thought. I admit I did.

be afraid

[pimpinphp]

In a post 9/11 world he most frightening thing is non-standard currency wielding terrorists!

Actually I heard that in order to get him to confess they had about five or six sales folk surround him and offer him the extended warranty over and over and over.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Kinetix303]

Actually, it costs far more than than one cent to mint a penny, and the government doesn't exactly 'sell' their currency to banks, rather, the currency is introduced gradually into circulation via them. Large chartered banks have been given the ability to 'leverage' or 'create' debt, by the Bank of Canada and so the need to 'purchase' money from the government does not exist.

I suggest you
a) Visit the Royal Canadian Mint in Ottawa
b) Take a high school economics course

Oh, and BTW: The Bank of Canada is a crown corporation, and Ford is a public traded, limited liability corporation, and most decidedly not 'private' by any sense of the word or its use in economics.

So, FunFactor, I, and other veterans of the Canadian Monetary Industry(tm, LLC, LLBO) thank you for your interest in Canadian economics but urge you to participate chiefly as an observer in the future.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Math, The Ancient]

IANAL either, but I believe the penalty for refusing legal tender is that the bill is considered paid.

I am Anti-Best Buy

[Mordack]

Here is my story.

Every time I go to Best Buy I see more and more mail in rebates. I hate rebates, but so does everybody else, so that is nothing new.

Plus Best Buy employs far to many people. They are constantly walking around with nothing to do. So they bug customers instead. I don't need 5 people asking me if I need help finding something.

But beyond that, their prices suck. Especially for cables. Right now slashdot is running an ad for newegg.com. A few weeks ago I checked prices on a 50 foot network cable. Best Buy: $37. Newegg.com: $6. Ahh, but shipping and handling is extra you say. True. But get this: you can have newegg.com ship it right to your door overnight on a frickin jet fueled airplane for still less than what Best Buy is charging.

If you think 6 times the price on cables is bad, you should price network cards. Newegg.com el'cheapo NIC: $2. Best Buy: $30.

Re:I am Anti-Best Buy

[Edmund Blackadder]

Of course Best buy's cables are expensive, it is part of their business model. The business model is this: attract customer with ads of an item that is sold for almost no profit and then when the customer actually comes to buy that item overload the customer with expensive extras which are sold at huge profits. The most popular extra is their extended warranty but cables are also counted as extras.

So that over priced cable is meant to compensate for the profit of the item that it is being sold with.

IMO it is a dumb business model because it is obviously based on creating an incorrect impression of the true prices of things, but that's their business model.

Re:I am Anti-Best Buy

[fishbowl]

"But beyond that, their prices suck. Especially for cables."

And that's come about recently.

My studio has loads of audio cables that came from Best Buy a few years back. They are excellent cables, well made, from a vendor that is not carried at Best Buy because they've switched to Monster brand for everything, apparently. The cables I bought were relatively inexpensive, and they are just fine.

Today, I went into Best Buy with the idea of maybe buying a new Sprint phone. Well, the sales guy couldn't even tell me whether any deals were available for an existing Sprint customer who wants to upgrade his phone, and didn't have *any* PDA phones. I walked away, of course, and decided to maybe grab some DVD+R's and an optical cable.
An $8.00 optical cable is $44.00 at that place, a $20 spindle of DVD+R's is $60.

Now, I have gotten some okay deals there, including a home theatre system, and some DVD movies, but that's because I exploit their sale prices and don't buy add-ons.

I didn't get a new phone today, but I did spend some money at Circuit City (probably not much better than Best Buy, but they have FAR better prices and seemed polite and friendly enough), and I bought some things mail-order (online, of course), for prices I would have paid in the store.

Re:I am Anti-Best Buy

[zakezuke]

I typicaly don't shop at Best Buy. In fact the only reason I was even in there recently was the fact that they are the only people who carried and xD card reader that I could find open on a sunday. The website listed the item as being $17.99, but everything in their store reflected a slightly higher price (22.99 IIRC) save an open box. Now the nice person at the register did correct the price, but that doesn't change the fact that the website still reflects a lower price than the store price. Still I doubt i'd ever go back there.

And come to think about it, I paid with a ten, a five, and 6 twos without much problem, except the usual...

"What do you expect me to do with these"
"put them under the drawer with your large bills and other misc things"
"Why do you people do this to me"
"Blame the post office"

Re:I am Anti-Best Buy

[timerider]

the website still reflects a lower price than the store price.

same here in germany with atelco, the online shop prices are just a little bit lower than the prices they ask for the same thing in the shops.
but at least they list both prices on the website.

Re:I am Anti-Best Buy

[zakezuke]

same here in germany with atelco, the online shop prices are just a little bit lower than the prices they ask for the same thing in the shops.
but at least they list both prices on the website.

Is there an option for local pickup on the website for the cheaper price? I.e. does the product come from the same physical store at two different price rates? That's what gets me about Bestbuy. You can find something there, surf on one of their demo computers, find it cheaper online, and order it local store pickup.

I hate coupons, I hate rebates, but what I hate most off all is having watch out for different prices at the same damn store.

Re:I am Anti-Best Buy

[timerider]

Is there an option for local pickup on the website for the cheaper price?

yes and no. you can order something online, then check which of their shops near you has it in stock, then order it as "pickup in store XYZ" but then you have to pay the regular shop price. which is not necessarily bad (think shipping costs).

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[NonSequor]

Actually the word dime is just an archaic word for tenth. Of course, you are right that it is related to the prefix deci- (both come originally from the Latin word decimus meaning tenth).

Re:50 Cent with the Northern Touch 1996

[saskboy]

1996 is the year the Toonie or $2 coin went into circulation. There is no 1995 issued Toonie.

Your so wrong

[WillRobinson]

First, as others have pointed out, most of what you say is mute. In your reference to using a 50$ bill to say pay for a bus ticket, actually they will gladly take it. What is stated is "we will not make change for more than a 20$ bill" So yes, you can still purchase the ticket, but dont expect change.

Re:Your so wrong

[uits]

I'm missing your point here, I know it does not apply because of the debt, but how am I *so* wrong? That is pulled from the US Treasury website.

Re:Your so wrong

[AllNicksTaken]

a) you're
b) moot

*sigh*

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jcr]

He didn't get chucked in a cell for being stubborn, he got chucked in a cell because the clerk is an idiot, as were the officers responding to the call.

Any marginally competent lawyer should be able to get him at least six figures from both the store, and the municipality where this occurred.

-jcr

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[l3ert]

Yes we do.

Re:50 Cent 2002 used for circulation

[saskboy]

In 2002 for the Queen's Jubilee 50th year, the Mint issued a 50 cent peice distributed as change at Canada Post. I went and picked up a couple rolls for $25, and kept a roll for selling on eBay and my collection, and used another at businesses to see the reactions. At a Burger King in Ottawa, I had the cashier do a double take, but they knew it was real.

I still have one kicking around in my backpack, and traded one at a New York coin shop for some other cooler coins.

Re:Toronto cops

[Abcd1234]

Well, in my experience, there's two types of people who become cops: those who want to help people, and those who want power over them...

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[AstroDrabb]

Oh, come on. All the cop or the idiot cashier had to do was hold the $2 bill up to light. They would have seen the "security bar" in the paper along with a bunch of other security measures that the US treasury puts in all printed money. I am sure that all "Best Buy" stores have at least _one_ of those fake currency markers that they could have used. Just draw a small line on the $2 bill, if it didn't turn the correct color/colour, it is a fake.

While I am not a sue-happy person, I hope this guy gets millions from "best buy", and even the "police force". Citizens should not be expected to put up these kinds of actions. Cops should be required to _always_ assume that a US citizen is innocent, and not assume guilt as has become the norm in our $uck up nation!

Next Time...

[Greyfox]

And there SHOULD be a next time to prove that there's no hard feelings, he should pay with pennies.

Re:Next Time...

[GnarlyNome]

Won't work $50.00 is the legal maxium that they have to accept in pennies...of course 5000 pennies can ruin their day too

Re:Next Time...

[Greyfox]

So go in with a sock full of pennies and buy a single playstation game. No problem :-) If it goes over 49.95 due to the sales tax, just give them a couple of bucks before you break out the pennies!

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[drooling-dog]

I've heard of people from New Mexico who've had trouble convincing people elsewhere that yes, they are indeed citizens of the U.S....

Nobody counterfeits $2 bills

[blackhedd]

They counterfeit $100 bills. Fake American hundreds were "legal" tender on Russian black markets for a long while. Fake US currency printed in Lebanon looks better than the real thing, and often appears before the real stuff does too.

Re:Nobody counterfeits $2 bills

[dacarr]

Yes, but they also counterfeit $10 bills - though they do so VERY badly.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[thogard]

The 50 and 100 issue in the US is more of an anti-robbery thing. If you claim you don't take anything bigger than a $20, then the most change you'll need to give someone is $19 or so which means you can move more cash to the safe more often where its less likely to be stolen.

I think its a case where people in the US have a better idea of how expensive it is to deal with money. Its not just the bank fees but the fact that someone can steal it. Of course you in australia stealing $200 in one dollar coins takes far more effort then putting 200 US $1 bills in a pocket. Australia also has a more efficient electronic banking system for dealing with small transactions which means more places are dealing with less cash. The dealing with cash is very expense for compaines which is why McDonnalds wants you to pay for your burger with eftpos and take away $200 so they don't have to pay the bank to deal with it.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Mitijea]

What's more convenient - to put your wallet in your pocket in the morning, or to grab a hand full of change and shove it in your pocket?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[NanoGator]

"The cop overreacted a bit and decided, figuring he's not really qualified to determine if the bills are in fact counterfiet or not..."

Add to that that the dude had a substantial number of extremely rare bills.

Not saying the cop was right, but you cannot tell me that you wouldn't be at least a little stunned if somebody handed you 50-odd $2 bills.

Er? Re:It's been happening for a long time already

[templest]

just take them down to any local bank where you can exchange them for real dollars.

As opposed to exchanging them for fake $2 bills?

I've had this problem before.

[TheLittleJetson]

When I graduated high school, a lot of people gave me money. Most just gave me a check, but my godmother (japanese ex-patriot) gave me a box full of 50 paper cranes, each folded from a $2 bill. I waited the longest to spend these, but eventually started using a couple every week. I would buy lunch with them and the places always gave me weird looks, like I was giving them monopoly money.

While I'm not surprised that they didn't know this was legal tender, I am surprised that a manager wasn't able to accept the bills.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[zxnos]

i think it is more about the store getting robbed. many stores, particularly convenience stores and fast food chains will have a sign posted that says they only ever have $20 max in the till. the rest goes directly into a timed safe.

as a counterpoint to your experience in the US, last time i was in france i got some nasty glares when i paid with anything but exact change.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[drooling-dog]

At least they didn't beat a confession out of him...

yes and no

[DarkTempes]

in a perfect world it would, but coins are much easier to lose than bills (oops! i dropped my $100 coin down the drain!) and coins are MUCH easier to counterfit than bills. a bill has all these cools anti-counterfit properties and is printed on special cloth-paper. while a coin is just...cast metal.

Re:yes and no

[darqchild]

yes and no..
with the proper equipment to manufacture coins in large volume, it costs almost the value of the coin to make them( in the case of smaller denominations, it can cost more than the value of the coin).

Given that counterfeit money has a street value of roughly 50% the face value before it has been laundered, it's not profitable to manufacture.

Re:yes and no

[evil0ne]

Ever been to a casino, people holding Black or Purple chips don't lose them unless they're drunk. They might lose their shirt but not winnings.

Re:yes and no

[Moofie]

Coins are not cast. I'm not certain if they're forged or stamped (that'd be hot or cold metal under a die applied at high pressure, respectively), but they're not cast (as in melted metal poured into a mold).

Re:yes and no

[jacksonj04]

British currency is stamped, and so are Euros IIRC. Can't say for anything else, but I think stamping makes for much easier conformity of weight.

Re:yes and no

[jacksonj04]

$100 coin is taking the piss, but up to $2 should be fine. It's possible to get legal tender £5 coins, but they're mostly for memorial purposes and are very, very rarely seen in circulation. Everything from £5 up is in note form (up to £50, then you're into bonds etc)

Re:yes and no

[p3d0]

$100 coin is taking the piss

I'm sorry, what the hell does that mean?

Re:yes and no

[d34thm0nk3y]

Coins are stamped.

a link

Re:yes and no

[hansiboy]

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=+ta king+the+piss&r=f

Re:yes and no

[Gilmoure]

Actually, they're fairly hard metal that's struck, You need some decent tool steel and a good carver as well as a nice heavy stamping machine to do a decent coin. Even in Roman days, while the blanks were cast, they always struck them. Produced a sharper image and was more difficult to counter fit.

Since US paper currency is all the same size, it's easy to bleach an actual dollar bill and then reprint it up as a higher denomination. Sure there are new bills with all sorts of security stuff but plenty of older bills floating around. People don' look twice at them.

Re:yes and no

[arwel]

Except in Scotland and Northern Ireland, where they have £100 notes... and let's not get into Northern Bank notes! :)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[ameoba]

Even better than that - a friend of mine, who lives in Washington, was visiting California a few years back and went into a bar and was carded. At the time WA still used printed & laminated cards while CA had switched over to newer cards where the info was actually printed onto a plastic card. The bartender insisted that his ID was fake and proceded to cut it up.

Fortunately for my friend, a vacationing Washington State Trooper was in the bar and convinced the bartender to pay for the replacement card -and- cover my friend's party's tab for the evening.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[damiangerous]

Coins cost twice as much to mint (4 cents vs 8 cents for a dollar coin), sure, but that's only a minor part of the equation. Coins last in circulation for about thirty years, while a bill needs to be replaced after just twenty two months. The GAO estimates that it costs $522 million a year to keep printing dollar bills rather than mandating a switch to coins.
That said, I hate dollar coins. I have enough change, I don't need more. Bills are easier to manage from a consumer standpoint.

Mark what?

[Transcendent]

After rudely refusing to take the money, the cashier accepted the bills, only to mark them as though they were co[u]nterfeit.

To single them out from the other two dollar bills that the cashier has, since he/she obviously tendered so many in a day?

He should have mixed in some gold dollar coins just to really screw the morons up.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[AvitarX]

The first tip I left when I visited london was 7 pounds.

I threw in a few loose coins like I typically do here. oops, I apperently tipped $10.00 on a $13.00 breakfast.

I bet I made somebody happy though.

The entire time I was in England I was confused as to why I would have loose change worth more then I usually cary in cash in the US.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[xenocide2]

No more than if they handed me 100 Sacagewea coins... During my stint as a cashier at a movie theater, I recieved two 2 dollar bills, and zero Sacagewas.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[thogard]

I knew a guy who had the habit of tossing dimes into the open cash draw at places like Mc Donald's. Apparently at the time McD's had a policy where they were much more worried if you had extra cash since it means you ripped off a customer where if you came up short you may be stealing from the company. The result is if your over by $.10 you end up counting and recounting and the manager gets to recount and someone has to fill out forms incase the irate costumer shows up looking for their $.10. He claimed that if you could get a dime in three draws it would waste an hour of a managers time.

Re:Toronto cops

[incom]

And guess which type likes to hire their own.

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[Wes Janson]

A guy comes in upset. He tries to pay with fifty-seven $2 bills. They are all numbered sequentially. And the ink is smudging. Now, wouldn't this all strike you as a bit ODD? Perhaps odd enough to detain the man for an hour or two, and try to get things sorted out? You have no clue whatsoever what cops have to go through; you do not serve as one, nor do you have the training to understand the situation. So quite frankly my dear, you have no room to criticise.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Micah]

> Now nobody uses the new one either.

Guess you haven't been to Ecuador. Here, where the US dollar is the official currency, you get golden dollar coins as change at least as often as the $1 bills, probably more.

Personally, I'm super-ticked that the US Mint quit making the things. They beat the crap out of $1 bills, and cost the government so much less to make and maintain. Why the heck didn't the gov't just ignore the whiners and pull the $1 bill?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[dingfelder]

Of course not.

Don't be silly.

I said sillyness like this is part of the reason.

I never said the coinage of the US was the reason to leave.

It was the general sillyness of many things. That was just one small example of a stupid policy or behavior.

There were MANY things that led me to leave including the growing protectionist policies of the current regeme, the growing unwise govt spending, and very poor local policy decisions.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[sentanta]

I remember getting blitzed in Novia Scotia one night (too many Keith's and too many questions about the Ranger's sucktitude back when the NHL existed), and throwing back all of my coins as a tip to the bartender. Waking up alone the next morning, realizing I tipped the bartender about $80 bucks. Canadian bastards :)

Bojangles

[frovingslosh]

I certainly wasn't arrested and thrown in jail, but I had an experience at a Bojangles fast food place recently. I had gone out and left my regular cash in a pocket of a different pair of pants. But I had some $2 bills in the car, so I took them into the joint and ordered a sandwhich. The cashier looked at it strangely, which didn't really surprise me. But she ended up with a couple other cashiers and even someone with manager written on their name tag, and they all seemed to not understand that $2 bills exist. I insisted that they do and the money was real and another customer next to me laughed at them and backed me up. At that point the manager started started holding the bill up to the light. I asked what they were looking for and they said "the thread stripe in the bill. This one doesn't have one." I explained that $2 bills don't (neither do 1's), and that the date on the bill clearly shows that the bill was issued before the threads were ever used in any US money. They ended up taking the money but I think it was mostly because they knew I was't going to yield and the line was growing.

Next time I go back there I plan to have more $2 bills with me.

Legal tender in the USA; need help w/ coin limits

[davidwr]

From answers.com:

Legal tender in the United States

As laid down in the United States Coinage Act of 1965, all coins and currencies of the United States, regardless of when coined or issued, shall be legal-tender for all debts, public and private, public charges, taxes, duties and dues. This excuses the several States from the prohibition laid on them in the United States Constitution (Article I Section 10) against making anything other than gold or silver coin a legal tender.

However, US federal law does not restrict private businesses, persons or organisations in what methods of payment they choose to accept or refuse. Businesses are therefore free to insist on payment by credit card, for example, or to refuse larger denomination banknotes. Even further though, legal tender laws do not preclude businesses from choosing to reject U.S. dollars for payment altogether. In this regard legal tender laws do not pertain to voluntary transactions.The occasional practice of offering large quantities of small denomination coins to pay resented debts is restricted by regulations limiting the use of "subsidiary" and "minor" coins (those with denominations of less than one dollar) similar to the Canadian ones listed below.

Similar articles on Wikipedia and elsewhere.

I don't buy everything this guy says, in particular for payment-after-purchase transactions like restaurants and post-pay gas stations. My gut feeling is if you eat a dinner and offer to pay with legal tender, they have to accept it, despite any signs to the contrary. After all, maybe I'm illiterate. But then again IANAL.

A related article which includes the above is at LaborLawTalk, it says among other things that:
- "legal tender can be refused until a person is in debt" which is why pre-pay grocery stores can refuse $100 bills, but post-pay restaurants can't.

I've heard there are limits on what's legal tender with respect to minor coins, for example, if you owe someone $100, you can't pay it all in pennies, but I can't seem to find those limits online. If you can, please reply.

Urban Legend...

[BlabberMouth]

...I've heard similar stories as urban legends. Has this really been confirmed?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Radical Rad]

You should try paying in Susan B. Anthony dollars someplace. Even though coins are struck with "One dollar" right on the face, some people insist that they are quarters. Very annoying.

That has happened to me too. I think it is hilarious to see young kids working at the drive-through windows who have never seen one. Sometimes they get all flustered and call another employee over to ask if it's real. I have even run into kids that are confused by the new Sacajawea dollars and those are recent!

If anyone wants to have their own fun with dollar coins it isn't necessary to ask for them at a bank. Just go buy a book of stamps from a machine at your postoffice. Pay with a $10 or $20 bill and you will get a mix of Susan B. Anthony's and Sacajawea's with your change.

I haven't seen any silver dollars in circulation since I was a kid and those Kennedy 50 cent pieces are extremely uncommon anymore but I did get one sometime last year.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[bleckywelcky]

Makes sense.

Scenario 1 -

Caller: Hi, I'm at a store and the cashier stole my driver's license.
Police: How did they steal it?
Caller: I gave it to them with my mom's credit card and they claimed it was stolen, so they kept both.
Police: Is it stolen?
Caller: No, I have my mom's permission to use it.
Police: Ok, what is her name? We'll give her a call to confirm and then get your license back.

Scenario 2 -

Cashier: Hi, this dude is trying to use a stolen credit card.
Police: How do you know it's stolen?
Cashier: The customer reported it stolen to the CC company.
Police: Is the thief still there?
Cashier: Yes, I kept his driver's license and he won't leave without it.
Police: Ok, we'll be down there to arrest him in a minute.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[dingfelder]

Of course not.

I said sillyness like this is only (a small) part of the reason.

I never said the coinage (of the US) was the reason to leave.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Caseyscrib]

What I would like to know is if you or this guy got their fingerprints taken. If it was truly a false arrest, the information should be purged from police records. I know somebody who was held for Parental Contact, and while they were never charged with anything or even arrested, their prints were still recorded on file. FYI, PC is basically when they hold minors at the station until their parents come get you.

real dollars smudge

[godawful]

one of the measures to prevent counterfitting is to actually make the ink never dry.. this is true.. take a kleenex or something and rub it against any bill,, some ink will come off.. the ink is especially tailored to not dry completely

Legal reprimand?

[digitalgimpus]

As I recall US Federal law stipulates that failure to accept the US dollar to pay a dept is a crime.

I'm curious if the casher may face federal charges.

IMHO anyone that stupid should be locked up for a year or so. There are so many stupid things about this:

- counterfiting $2 would be pointless. The cost would exceed the bill if it were done well.
- why use them in the US where people are more prone to realize it? Use it other countries where the US dollar is accepted.
- Yes, there is a $2 bill! /me hopes stupid people disappear.

Re:Legal reprimand?

[fishbowl]

"As I recall US Federal law stipulates that failure to accept the US dollar to pay a dept is a crime.

I'm curious if the casher may face federal charges."

The lunch counter transaction isn't payment of a debt in a strict legal sense, so no. Not every transaction of commerce is payment of a debt, and the obligations placed on creditors to accept legal tender for private debts is rather specific.

So legal tender, a well-defined subset of "lawful money", may be refused by a merchant until a person is in debt. So you can put a sign on your store that says "No bills larger than $20".

The merchant can refuse to do business with the customer, and, equally important, the customer cannot demand to make a purchase.

So, legal tender for debts means precisely that. You choose to accept the money for other things, but the law requires you to accept it for payment of debts.

Re:Legal reprimand?

[Loconut1389]

except that he did owe a debt for services rendered- the installation, and threatened to call the cops if he didn't pay.. Guess he got the cops anyway.

Re:Legal reprimand?

[91degrees]

But the cashier was suspicious of the money. So she delegated to the police. Since the police offcier was also suspicious, it is not unreasonable to refuse to accept them as payment until such time as the authenticity of the bills could be verified.

Re:Legal reprimand?

[digitalgimpus]

It's long been fact that you can't refuse to accept bills over X in size.

Go ahead.. .they may bitch, but they can't decline. If they do just call the cops. The police will quickly sort it out.

I know people who have had to do this when getting gas late at night. The cops put them in their place in about 3 seconds.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Deliveranc3]

Because American currency is the global currency, they like to make sure the bills that terrorists buy nuclear weapons with is still legal.

Seriously 2/3rds of physical american currency is overseas and therefore difficult to replace. (Not to mention an excellent way to create a loan the government never has to pay back.

i got you all beat

[shakaru]

I got you all beat here. I went on a tour of the US mint in sanfransico about 2 or 3 years ago. While there I decided to goto the bank after remembering there are $2 bills, and picked a few to use just for asshole value. While in the mint snack shope/cafe, I went to get my lunch and I hand the woman a few $2 bills who in return says to me. "We dont accept novilty money." With that quote I poited to the cealing behind me where large bills were haning in display and there was a $2 right there. How can you work at the MINT and not know?

Re:i got you all beat

[gerardrj]

Well... "the mint" doesn't make paper money. The U.S. Mint makes our coins.
The Bureau of Engraving & Printing makes the paper money (and stamps among other things).

still working on it

[flacco]

give me a little more time - i'm pretty sure i can pin this on microsoft's stock-holdings in best buy...

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Salvo]

Here in Australia, our Two Dollar Coins have a similar surface to 5 cent coins, and are about double the thickness. They have smooth edges while 5 cent coins have serrated edges.

I constantly loose 2 dollar coins out of my wallet due to their smooth edges, I get left with a pile of 5 cent coins which don't slide around the inside of my wallet as much.

We also have One Dollar Coins which are about the same size as a 10 cent coin. We don't have 1 or 2 dollar notes, only 5, 10 20, 50 and 100 (which are all colour coded). We also have 200 dollar coins which are as rare as your 2 dollar notes.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Chanc_Gorkon]

Sacagawea coins, while near the same size as a quarter, they are not easily mistaken. First, they are gold in color. Second, the rim of the coin is smooth. They are bigger then a quarter and many vending meachines did need modified. There are several in our area that have their coin slots drilled out to accomodate the larger coin. I, in fact, use them all the time as our vending machine company uses these to dispense change so you no longer have to carry a bunch of quarters when you use a 5 in the snack machine. The snack machine also doubles as a dollar/5 dollar changer. Works out even better because the pop machines take them as well.

Post 9/11 jitters???

[BanjoBob]

Commenting on the incident, Baltimore County police spokesman Bill Toohey told the Sun: "It's a sign that we're all a little nervous in the post-9/11 world."

I'm sure that using legitimate $2 bills is a threat to national security! How many people have been killed by a $2 bill?

That's a pretty lame excuse by the police department. Surely they could come up with something a bit more creative.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[macdaddy357]

I hope he ends up owning Best Buy and the local keystone cops, too. It's two-hundreds that are fake, not twos, Duh!

Counterfeiters don't waste their time with small bills. They make hundreds, fifties and twenties. Maybe some make tens, but it would cost too much to make convincing small bills. That is why ones and fives haven't been redesigned with anti-counterfeiting measures.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[buckhead_buddy]

Consumer Reports had a report on it's back page of the May issue (with cautiously optimistic reviews of the Mac Mini and iPod shuffle).

The coin is a $10 coin of Liberian currency with George W. Bush on it. The coin is sent to you as the first in a collector's series and every month you have to pay $60.

There was a computer conference I went to in 2002 where a vendor was giving away golden coins of U.S. Presidents if you gave him an email address. These weren't U.S. coinage but they looked the same size and shape as the new golden dollar coin and were probably minted in the same not US mint. Unfortunately all of the popular Presidents were already taken. Not wanting a Chester Arthur, James Polk, or any of their ilk, I took a Richard Nixon coin.

I've taken this out as I dig in my wallet for other coins and dollars. It attracts a lot of attention from cashiers but none have questioned its legitimacy. Nixon was an infamous unpopular president; large denomization dollar coins are very unpopular but legal. I do wish the coin had the saying "I am not a crook" embossed on it.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Brandybuck]

This kind of paranoia is disturbing enough among the unwashed, paranoid, intellectually barren cannon fodder of America

Let's just project the stupidity of one ignorant cashier onto an entire society, why don't we? That's the Slashdot way. Why think when you can stereotype!

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[1000StonedMonkeys]

You're new to slashdot, aren't you? ;)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[renehollan]

I refuse to shop at Best Buy since they refused to take back a DVD player that was dead out of the box, insisting I had to take it up with the manufacturer through the manufacturer's warranty.

They were likely within their rights, but I was so angry about them being rude and unreasonable that I left the DVD player there and swore to never do business with them again, expressing that sentiment a bit loudly, but politely, as I left the store. I haven't. (Fortunately, they didn't try to have me arrested for "littering".)

I've never had such a bad experience with any other merchant over items DOB (dead out of the box). Office Depot, in particular, once took back a CDROM drive gone bad, after 10 months, on a Sunday, still in warranty, refunded my money, and then let my buy a replacement which was now $50 cheaper! They didn't have to take it back, of course -- I was hoping to swap it for a good one that day (a warranty claim would have taken weeks, and I'd get a replacement drive -- I didn't need two but did need a replacement that day), at the original price. The manager said that they could make a warranty claim for reimbursement (which I could not -- only replacement after a delay), and offered an immediate cash refund (not even just a store credit, which would have been fine by me), as a convenience. Talk about curtesy and customer service! I had my original purchase receipt, but was told that even that was unnecessary, though welcome: they sold the product in question, and would have been willing to take me at my word "this one time" that I purchased it there.

I wrote a letter of high praise to Office Depot's corporate office, and made it clear that such actions on part of that particular store's management induced me to spend a great deal more there when I otherwise had a choice, or might save a few dollars shopping elsewhere, and that I lauded their service to all my friends (which, for that particular store, was true).

Such experiences have been the norm for me, over small items, typically where the defective or disputed item cost $200 or less.

Contrast Best Buy...

... never again!

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[eno2001]

Because most of America is populated by illogical fools who fear change and don't see the value in practicality when it upsets long held convention. When they were considering color for our bills recently, they only wound up adding a slight hint of color. The reason why? Well, according to what I've read, the decision was made because the U.S. treasury was told by what amounts to a marketing group, that Americans think of money as green. I was livid when I heard this because I'd just come back from Australia and I think they have gorgeous bills (nice colors and a clear plastic section for anti-counterfeiting measures). A lot of idiots here will say that it doesn't matter what color money is as long as it has value, which may be true, but jesus people! Get a fucking sense of style!

Innocent before proven guilty?

[afra242]

Whatever happened to this saying?! I mean they arrest this man immediately, and humiliate him in a store full of other customers. It just doesn't seem right to me.

My friend from the UK just came here to visit me, and he noticed how scared people are of the police here, and how the police tend to overreact very quickly. It isn't like that in the UK - people feel that the cops are on their side.

But this...this just is stupid. Did they have to cuff him and arrest him while the Secret Service came to confirm that the bills were not counterfeit? Why not put him in the Best Buy manager's office until the S.S. came along?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Chanc_Gorkon]

The vending machines at work all use them...both for dispensing change and for legal tender. They are also quite common just about everywhere I go.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[tombeard]

I got back 18 of the damned things from a machine at the port authority bus station. Finally discovered that toll collectors will take them. Keeps them out of public circulation anyway.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[RevDobbs]

Wait a second, we're missing an important point here:
You go to a bar where you can buy a beer for a buck? Where is this little slice of heaven?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[BlueFashoo]

No, because strippers don't like coins.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Bastian]

The $2 bill was discontinued before the security bar was introduced.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[FunFactor100]

Hmmm....I guess the news story I saw the other day on an Ottawa news station lied then. That's where I got the .8 cent penny info. They had some guy from the mint who mentioned that. As for the bank of Canada being a crown corp...you're right...I was wrong. However...can you explain to me why the government of Canada would borrow money from a company that it owns...and then proceed to pay them interest on such loans? Where does the profit go?

Legal Tender

[Chris Snook]

There's a very important distinction to be made here. Legal Tender is only guaranteed for debts. This means that if you walk into Best Buy with a fistful of $2 bills and walk up to the register with the bills and merchandise, they are perfectly free to refuse to do business with you.

Legal Tender only comes into play when there is a debt. In this case, the man was being billed for a service that had already been voluntarily performed. This constitutes a debt, so unlike every other transaction this poorly trained cashier handles, the tender must be accepted. Refusal to accept the tender is equivalent to forgiving the debt under common law in many places. Really the man should have just walked out with his money the first time. That he offered to pay a second time shows his exceptional generosity. See here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Legal_tender

Legal Tender issues aside, and the matter of stupid cashiers not recognizing $2 bills aside, there's another critical problem that everyone but our protagonist seemed to miss. It is impossible, by definition, to steal something you are permitted to enter into debt for. It can be fraud if you had no intent to pay, but bear in mind that most fraud is still a civil matter, not a criminal matter. It's not something you lock someone up for, unless they're in contempt of court for refusing to pay a judgement you have the means to pay.

That Best Buy hasn't already fallen all over themselves trying to appease him and close up this PR nightmare is worrisome. Not only did they screw up big time, but they don't seem to see anything wrong with it.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[c0d3h4x0r]

He'd never heard of the state of Maryland.

People that stupid should be euthanized. Seriously.

That's my local Best/Worst Buy !

[Dave21212]

That's my local Best/Worst Buy, and my bank is right across the street @!... oh, and did I mention that I need a CD/RW for my mom's machine this weekend...

Maybe I should have my wife arrange bail now !

Seriously it is right up the street... and also seriously, does BB have any idea what's going to happen now that this is making the broader news (/., CNET Buzz, others) ??? I can just picture cash drawers at BB all over the country filling up with $2 bills (what slot do you put them in)...

Wow. Best Buy gets slammed for what seems to be fraudulous billing practices, poorly trained cashiers, idiotic managesrs, while the overzealous rookies in the BCPD get slammed, the Feds get slammed, and the $2 bill gets the best publicity it's seen since in years... there just SO much to love about this story (Thank you Michael Olesker!) (Obligatory BugMeNot)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Aeiri]

When you go buy a large ice cream cone, and you get $3.50 back from your $5, which is easier?
-Put 50 cents in pocket, then juggle cone to put $3 back into wallet and put wallet back into pocket
or
-Put handful of coins into pocket

It's easier to:
C: Don't grab the cone immediately, make the monetary transaction first, and then grab the cone (or if they hand it to you, set it down on the counter).

This isn't second grade trading of stolen goods from each other, you don't have to hand it off at the same time, or use an intermediary (IE: friend). Once the cashier gets the money, they aren't going to bolt out the back door and try to out run you. If they do you can sue the store for $100,000 worth of damages, this is America after all.

Doesn't surprise me any.....

[mckyj57]

Best Buy has always had the snottiest employees. They act like they are doing you a favor taking your money, and they never say "thank you".

I avoid the place. If a business can't thank me for doing business with them, I don't want to go there.

Re:Doesn't surprise me any.....

[FreyarHunter]

Oddly enough, the stores in my area aren't that bad. Employees are nice, and they do have the usuall ettiquit (Thanks, Come Again!, etc.) Franchises are hard to say if they are all good or not, because here, it's definatly that these Best Buys are above average with customer service.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Pinback]

Damn right. I went by Best Buy yesterday night, looking for a USB GPS (Pharos) and a Linksys NSLU2.

Looking through the linksys isle, I overheard a moderately high ranking store flunky telling his manager that they were only 25k$ shy of making their sales target. The flunky went on to say that he was sure they'd make target, cause the big screen plasma displays were on sale. (Idiots paying 5k$ for a TV. But that is a different story.)

Ultimately I ended up talking to the aforementioned flunky to see if the NSLU2s had been moved to some other part of the store. (I saw them in stock back at year end.) While standing next to the register as a inventory search was run, a lower level flunky walked up and asked "can I help you!" as though I was inconveniencing his boss by standing next to the register. (The snivling search results: "we don't stock it, but we can order it for you...". Yeah, I can order it myself pinhead.)

At that point I figured that any place that looks at me as an inconvenience would get nothing but a view of the soles of my shoes as I walked out the door.

For an extra 45 minutes of driving, I saved 30$ on the GPS, and picked up an NSLU2, a type 1 bluetooth USB adapter, and a few other minor things as well.

Comparatively, Fry's treated me well. And for their trouble, they made a 280$ sale.

Best Buy, your doors can't close too soon.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[DoctorFrog]

I once got a $50 bill back in change when I should have gotten a $20. Not wanting to screw over some poor cashier I tried to Do The Right Thing (tm) and return the money.
"You've made a small mistake," I said - I swear, that's verbatim what I said, and the verbatim reply I got was
"NO. I don't make mistakes."
Being, in some situations, a slow learner, I repeated my assertion; "No, really, there's been a little mistake made." (Note the regression into passive speech - I was really, really trying to avoid assigning blame here.)
Nope. About six degrees Kelvin comes the reply, "I told you, I don't make mistakes."
"Fine," I replied, walking away, "at the end of the day, when you're adding up, remember that the mistake you didn't make was a $30 mistake."

Americans _HATE_ coins

[ahbi]

I know a lot of other countries have $1 or $2 coins and they love them. Well, that is great for them. It is their country and they can run things however they want, there.

Here, we F'ing hate coins. All of them. Now maybe if I had a purse and had something to carry them in it would be different, but I don't (and you have to go on some mythic Homeric quest to find a masculine coin purse). My wallet doesn't have a place to put coins and most other people don't either.

Even if you carry a purse, it takes 20 minutes for you to get the Damn coins out when you need them. They have all fallen down to some obscure corner of the purse, underneath the 30 pounds of other crap in there. I always cringe when my wife pops up with "Oh, I have exact change." That means I am going to waste 20 minutes in line, instead of just throwing away the 19 cents in change I would have gotten.

Coins are just garbage. They are constantly falling out of my pant pockets. The way Docker-style and suit-style pants are cut the pocket opening is parallel with the ground when you sit. So, coins and other small objects (like the ever shrinking cell phone) slide right out. And, usually end up in the no-mans-land of my car between the seat and the arm rest. My only hope is blue jeans, which I am not allowed to wear to work because "I need to look professional."

I have 1 gallon jar filled with pennies. And then I have 3 other Mason/Ball jars for nickels, dimes, and quarters. They sit there until I either need to use the dimes for LightRail fairs or I feel the jars are too full and bundle them up for the bank deposit.

All I want to do anyhow is just pay with my plastic card anyhow. I know The Man can track everything you do with the card anyhow, but I don't care. As a heterosexual, white, male I have been told all my life that I am "The Man", and let me tell you it isn't as much fun as you'd think it would be. My Jewish friend, still very disappointed in his ability to control the media and be part of the vast Jewish conspiracy. But, I digress.

What the Hell can you buy for under $1 anyhow? When I was a kid I could at least buy a candy bar for $0.25, but not now, we have moved into the $0.55 & $0.69 echelon. When we could buy them for $0.50 I'd just buy 2. As an adult, everything I buy on impulse is in the $20-50 range. Coins don't help me with that.

We invented paper money for a reason. Stop whining about how much you want your $1 coins and how you hate Susan B Anthony and Sack-a-Nut-Sack (or something like that). A least they made the Sack coin golden. The Susan B was just a horrible mistake. And stop F'ing with my money for purposes of making it more collectable and popular. You are the US Treasury not the Franklin Mint. Really, this is the great idea from the US government to increase economics savings? "We'll print pretty coins and you can not spend them." It is bad enough you have turned my traditional serious paper money into Monopoly money with big cartoon heads.

I don't want your Damn coins. I know "Pennies make dollars" and someday they will come off my coin jar shelf and make me ... oh, maybe $30. But, I and many other Americas just find them an annoying noisy nuisance.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[kalidasa]

For some reason, folks here in the US don't like coins - I think most people would be happy if all prices were in quarters so they didn't have to carry any dimes or nickels (and no-one actually keeps pennies - they just get tossed into a jar and rolled up and brought to the bank once a month; half-dollar coins are completely ignored). Don't look at me, I have plenty of Sacagawea dollars (they work well in Coke machines). I like the pound coin and the loonie. But no one here wants them. (And $2 bills are just as rare as $0.50 coins.)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[coopex]

Extremely rare? As of 1999 there were over a billion dollars worth of $2 bills in circulation worldwide. http://www.snopes.com/business/money/twodollar.asp , I'd harldy consider that rare, as well as the fact that you can ask for them at a bank. Even silver coinage isn't rare, I usually get at least one per week. I'd consider rare something like this: http://coins.to/ccdollars.html

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[gozar]

Coins are more expensive to make (both in material and actual money), are bulkier (this more difficult/expensive to ship) and heavy. So no, paper currency isn't likely to go anywhere.

True, but a coin will last 25-30 years versus 18 months for a bill. I wish I could remember the figure for how much the government would save if they would stop printing the dollar and just use the dollar coin.

Re: The place in the till...

[J_Omega]

...there isn't a place in the till to put them.

Sure there is: underneath the "regular" money. Where do you put checks and foodstamps??

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Brandybuck]

If you replace the bills with coins, you are STILL going to have dollar bills in circulation for quite a while. Thus you will still get customers with bills instead of coins, and you don't want to turn them away by removing the dollar bill slot.

Re:PLEASE EXPLAIN WHY

[metamatic]

Because it's Wal-Mart?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[tuatara222]

OMG...
What a waste of time and energy... though I don't understand why someone would set out to do things like that (tossing dimes), unless that staff had really screwed with him somehow.

I had to work a lot of retail jobs through all my degrees, and they are not a party to start with, without having to contend with behavior like that... =P

On a more humorous note, one gig I had was waitressing in a small Middle Eastern restaurant in New Haven, and Mohammed would ding your paycheck for the amount of any error made on a customer's bill- regardless of whether it was in his favor or not. Only had that happen once or twice before my mental math skills became quite sharp, even at 2 AM! ;)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[pla]

The 50 cent piece hasn't been made in years, it has been phased out

Funny, I have a few from 2005, one from 2004... No 2003s (not that they don't exist, I just don't happen to have any)... a few 2002, and dozens from years before that.

The US also issued a large batch of $2 bills in 2003 (not sure if they did so since then).


Personally, I enjoy paying for things in bizarre currency... a $2, a Sacajawea, and a Kennedy half, for a $3.50 tip. Things like that. It usually makes cashiers laugh, and I have yet to get arrested for it. Then again, I know better than to shop at Best Buy for anything... I think we can draw some pretty solid negative conclusions about the fellow involved from that fact alone.

I have learned not to try to use SBA dollars anywhere but banks, however... Cashiers simply assume them as quarters without a second glance (which, AFAIK, caused their demise in the first place... What a dumb size, shape (milled edges), and color to make a dollar coin!)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[DJDutcher]

Personally I hate carrying coins around, and I would be really annoyed if they made more coins which were even bigger and heavier than current coins.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Brandybuck]

Only if its silver (pre '65). Copper sandwiches are worth much less. There are so many 1976 JFKs and Ikes that they're not worth much more than their face value.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[NanoGator]

" I'd harldy consider that rare"

I worked in retail for nearly four years. Thousands of dollars in small bills passed through my hands. I saw maybe two or three $2 bills during that time.

That's how I define rare. :P

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[shird]

The $2 is not generally handled as much and this seems to be a perfect example of why it isn't.

So... its not handled as much because people don't recognise it.... because its not used much. Isn't that rather pardoxial? Wouldnt all denomiations have this problem if that were the reason?

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[SomeGuyFromCA]

And I said, "Obie, I can understand you wanting my wallet so I don't have any money to spend in the cell, but what do you want my belt for?" And he said, "Kid, we don't want any hangings." I said, "Obie, did you think I was going to hang myself for littering?"

Reminds me of this old story

[serutan]

There's been a story on the web for years about a guy who tries to pay for a burrito with a $2 bill and the Taco Bell people have no idea there is such a thing. I just reread it and it still made me laugh out loud.

Re:Reminds me of this old story

[ediron2]

A coworker told such a similar story back around '96...

The only detail that shifted was the mall rent-a-cop also was clueless, and the cop that arrived on scene was noticeably belligerent with him until this *priceless* moment when he realized that my friend was just some guy and that everyone else was dumber than dirt. The cop gasped, stared at them (clerk, manager and rent-a-cop) for a moment, threw the $2 on the counter and said "It's Real, they exist, give him his food" and stormed out to go do some real work. ... similarity is so tight, I almost wonder who cribbed the story from whom. But either way, it's priceless.

Legal USA tender

[Midnight Thunder]

The United States Mint has a list of current legal tender. There may be some photos of them somewhere on the site, but I'll let someone else post the URL.

There is also another link with information on the two dollar bill.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[macemoneta]

This comment got me thinking. It seems that US currency has gone through many different changes over the years, and yet it's all still legal tender, resulting in a confusing mish-mash of coins and bills and whatnot. Is there any reason why all this currency is kept as legal tender?

Whn I was younger, US bills were "silver certificates" -- backed by and redeemable in silver. They were withdrawn from the market, and are no longer legal tender (since 1968). So this kind of widthdrawl of currency from the market has occurred in recent times.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[E8086]

Have you ever taken the NY/NJ subway/PATH? It's probably the same in other cities with subways or underground trains or whatever they're called by the locals. (feel free to correct me on that)

Use a $2 $5 $10 or $20 bill to buy a Metro card or ticket or just to get change and all you get are the $1 coins. They still have a dedicated use there, but limited elsewhere. It's the easiest way for an automated machine to give change for large denomination bills. They're also useful for fighting off muggers, put a couple in a sock and swing away(try at your own risk)

I keep one in my wallet just so I'll have some petty cash for a snack/drink if I spend all my paper currency, but it's primary purpose is as a novelty item.

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[bluGill]

A person can. Only an idiot would actually do so though. Unless you have had police training you are likely to make a mistake and be sued. Even if you have had the latest training, if you are not an officer and make a mistake the courts will look dimly on it.

Don't try it. You can do it, but it isn't worth it. Either the crime is small enough that you let them go, or it is serious enough that you will willingly take life in prison for murdering them, and you shoot. Hopefully you never encounter the latter situation, but if you do at least there is nobody to contradict your testimony so you have a chance of getting a justified defense to work.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Anonymous Coward]

I've never seen "definitely" misspelled with TWO "f"s before. That's a new one. It does give it that medieval Olde Englishe feel to it, though.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[kalidasa]

The security thread was introduced in 1990. I have two 1995 series $2 bills in my hands, and they do not have security threads; no doubt the $2 bill was excluded from the change for the same reason the $1 bill was, and in addition because there are so few in circulation, relatively speaking, that there was no sense of a need to add the security thread. The $2 bill has not been discontinued.

Re:Over the top reaction... "Show me your papers!!

[jasonditz]

I wish I'd been so lucky as this guy. He's just been given a "sue the piss out of best buy" card and a "sue the piss out of a fairly large American city" card.

They didn't torture him, they didn't beat him... all it cost him was a little time in a cell waiting for the secret service to tell the police what retards they are.

From what I've seen of other wrongful arrest suits he should be good for a minimum 5 figures in an out of court settlement with the city...

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[operagost]

They are not shaped "almost exactly" like quarters. They are thicker, greater in diameter, AND they have an octagonal rim. This is so a blind person can tell the difference readily. Apparently the problem is with sighted people, who see SBA's -- er, let's say rugged -- countenance and say, "Damn, George Washington sure looks ugly on this quarter!"

I imagine you haven't seen the Sacajawea coin either. It doesn't have the octagonal rim, but it has a flat instead of a reeded edge (the quarter and half have reeded edges). Oh yeah, and it has a GOLD color thanks to the maganese and copper composition. Yup, looks just like a cheap old quarter. No, the reason why people don't use dollar coins is because they DON'T WANT FRIGGIN' TEN POUNDS OF SMALL "BILLS" IN THEIR POCKETS! Myself, I like to put one in my billfold: it looks like a huge condom-ring after a few weeks.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[DoctorFrog]

Not only do I use Sacajawea ("golden") dollars on a daily basis in the vending machines at work, but since the change machine often spits out Susan B's for my sawbuck as well, I use those too.
I've never had any trouble distinguishing them from a quarter, and lest you think it's a geek thing, neither have any of my machine operators or the janitorial staff. Maybe you'd be surprised how quickly people learn to recognize the denominations of common currency.
I don't doubt that the "Carter quarter" caused confusion in the first few months of its release, but once people know to look out for it they're not confused, any more than they would be if $2 bills were common in circulation instead of collector's items. Come on, this is in a country where all bills are the same size and shape, and mostly the same shade of green.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[AstroDrabb]

Hmm, I didn't know that one, thanks!

However, I am sure that the money still had other measures to prevent fakes. The paper for _all_ US currency has been made by the same company for ages (I just some something about this on Discovery). The company keeps most of its methods secret for a reason, they also had some very heavily armed guards at different parts of the facility. So even if there wasn't a security bar, the paper would have had other properties that make a fake easy to detect like watermarks, discolored paper with a special marker, glowing under ultra-violet light, and others. Though obviously the most modern advancement of paper money is the security bar which happens to be the easiest to detect. It is not too hard to detect a fake of US currency if you just hold it up to light. The paper that is used is just incredible with all the properties it has. Though sadly, when was the last time you watch a minimum wage cashier hold up your $1, $5, $10 or even $20 dollar bill for inspection? Those denomination happen to be the most counterfeited bills in circulation.

They are beatiful

[bluGill]

Obviously you have never seen a real two dollar bill. They are easily the best looking bill the US prints! If you ever get to the US make a side visit to a bank and ask for a two dollar bill (most will have one, which they will trade for $2 in other US currency). Anyone with artistic sense will prefer the two dollar bill because they look so nice. (well for money)

Re:They are beatiful

[djmurdoch]

I don't need to go to a US bank, I can see a picture here. I agree they're the nicest looking US bills, but I think being the best looking US banknote still doesn't put it in the same league as most other countries' currency.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Miaowara_Tomokato]

And how frequently do each have to be replaced?

vending machines

[ImaLamer]

If you inspect new vending machines and bill changers made today you see a shift in making the dollar coin more popular. At the last school I attended there were a few brand new fancy coke machines with convery belts (bonus to anyone who finds the hack for free cokes) and they had those dollar coin stickers all over them.

I assume though that the "hopper" (if that is even in a coke machine) or other pieces are interchangeable so that a company can use the same piece in every machine they are servicing. Makes it a lot easier and makes another product for the vending machine manufacturer to sell.

Re:vending machines

[Short Circuit]

I've never seen a Coke machine give out free product, but I did see a Starbucks coffee machine malfunction in such a way that everything it dispensed was free. Being nearly 8 in the morning, there was a line of students at the machine, looking for a cheap caffeine fix.

It was right across the hall from campus police headquarters, too.

Re:vending machines

[ImaLamer]

same school?

where I went the roto-vomit (food machine) said "NO CHARGE" for a day and we ate everything it had.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Ender_Wiggin]

$2 at Taco Bell

Copyright 1993 Captain Sarcastic (kkoller@nox.cs.du.edu)

On my way home from the second job I've taken for the extra holiday cash I need, I stopped at Taco Bell for a quick bite to eat. In my billfold is a $50 bill and a $2 bill. That is all of the cash I have on my person. I figure that with a $2 bill, I can get something to eat and not have to worry about people getting pissed at me.

Me: "Hi, I'd like one seven layer burrito please, to go."

Clerk: "Is that it?"
Me: "Yep."
Clerk: "That'll be $1.04, eat here?"
Me: "No, it's to go." [I hate effort duplication.]

At this point I open my billfold and hand him the $2 bill. He looks at it kind of funny and says,

Clerk: "Uh, hang on a sec, I'll be right back."

He goes to talk to his manager, who is still within earshot. The following conversation occurs between the two of them.

Clerk: "Hey, you ever see a $2 bill?"

Manager: "No. A what?"
Clerk: "A $2 bill. This guy just gave it to me."
Manager: "Ask for something else, there's no such thing as a $2 bill."
Clerk: "Yeah, thought so."

He comes back to me and says,

Clerk: "We don't take these. Do you have anything else?"

Me: "Just this fifty. You don't take $2 bills? Why?"
Clerk: "I don't know."
Me: "See here where it says legal tender?"
Clerk: "Yeah."
Me: "So, shouldn't you take it?"
Clerk: "Well, hang on a sec."

He goes back to his manager who is watching me like I'm going to shoplift, and

Clerk: "He says I have to take it."

Manager: "Doesn't he have anything else?"
Clerk: "Yeah, a fifty. I'll get it and you can open the safe and get change."
Manager: "I'm not opening the safe with him in here."
Clerk: "What should I do?"
Manager: "Tell him to come back later when he has real money."
Clerk: "I can't tell him that, you tell him."
Manager: "Just tell him."
Clerk: "No way, this is weird, I'm going in back."

The manager approaches me and says,

Manager: "Sorry, we don't take big bills this time of night."

[It was 8:00pm and this particular Taco Bell is in a well-lighted indoor mall with a hundred other stores.]
Me: "Well, here's a two."
Manager: "We don't take those either."
Me: "Why the hell not?"
Manager: "I think you know why."
Me: "No really, tell me, why?"
Manager: "Please leave before I call mall security."
Me: "Excuse me?"
Manager: "Please leave before I call mall security."
Me: "What the hell for?"
Manager: "Please, sir."
Me: "Uh, go ahead, call them."
Manager: "Would you please just leave?"
Me: "No."
Manager: "Fine, have it your way then."
Me: "No, that's Burger King, isn't it?"

At this point he backs away from me and calls mall security on the phone around the corner. I have two people staring at me from the dining area, and I begin laughing out loud, just for effect.

A few minutes later, this 45-year-oldish guy comes in and says at the other end of counter, in a whisper:

Security Guard: "Yeah, Mike, what's up?"

Manager: "This guy is trying to give me some [pause] funny money."
Guard: "Really? What?"
Manager: "Get this, a two dollar bill."
Guard: "Why would a guy fake a $2 bill?" [incredulous]
Manager: "I don't know? He's kinda weird. Says the only other thing he has is a fifty."
Guard: "So, the fifty's fake?"
Manager: "No, the $2 is."
Guard: "Why would he fake a $2 bill?" Manager: "I don't know. Can you talk to him, and get him out of here?" Guard: "Yeah..."

Security guard walks over to me and says

Guard: "Mike here tells me you have some fake bills you're trying

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Dun Malg]

You should try paying in Susan B. Anthony dollars someplace. Even though coins are struck with "One dollar" right on the face, some people insist that they are quarters. Very annoying.

I protest having to show up in person at the DMV to renew my license by paying in some combination of SBA dollars, Sacajawea dollars, and/or 2 dollar bills. To their credit, no one has yet accused me of uttering false coin, but it is quite amusing to watch them struggle with trying to find a place to put them in the cash drawer.

The store's address and phone number

[hyp3r]

Here's that store's address and phone number if you'd like to tell them what you think of their "customer service". Towson MD (Store 149) 1717 York Road Timonium, MD 21093 Phone: 410-561-2260 Hours: Mon-Sat 10:00am-9:00pm Sun 11:00am-7:00pm

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[ColMustard]

I've seen a nickel land on its side. Now honestly, what are the chances of that? I probably won't ever see that again...

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[operagost]

Because one thing I've learned from watching homosexual makeover shows on TLC and Style, is that more color is always better!

Oh, yeah, and from watching "Punky Brewster" reruns.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[(negative video)]

It seems that US currency has gone through many different changes over the years, and yet it's all still legal tender, resulting in a confusing mish-mash of coins and bills and whatnot. Is there any reason why all this currency is kept as legal tender?

It isn't a problem. The main coins maintain the same size and weight for many decades, having only minor cosmetic changes to the faces, such as the change from the wheat penny to the Lincoln Memorial penny, or the one-year-only 1976 bicentennial quarter. Old paper notes are destroyed the next time they make it to a bank so they leave circulation very rapidly. 99.999% of the money in daily use is standardized to the point where machines can accept it fine (well, as well as machines can ever accept paper and coins). Having a bunch of nanny bureaucrats run a massive switch-over program would be an utter waste.

The $2 bill and Kennedy half dollars do occassionally confuse people, and kids get a kick out of getting them as a present. I suspect that's why the public wants them still: pure giggle factor. And the Treasury likes that because people tend to hold onto them and not spend them, which amounts to a free loan to the government.

There are a bunch of oddball coins made with precious metals, like the Eisenhower silver dollar, the American Eagle platinum coins, and a variety of older coins. While they may be legal tender, only fools try to trade them at face value.

new favorite denomination

[omahaNerd]

That's it, I'm going to my bank and demanding that the ATM's dispense $2 bills and $1 coins. I want to load up on these and go out and educate the masses.

Another Funny Story

[Radical Rad]

Two experienced con men cook up a counterfeiting scheme but when they put it into action, the offshore print shop that they outsourced the job to sends them fake eighteen dollar bills instead of the twenties they asked for, giving only some flimsy excuse about the exchange rate fluctuating. Well what could they do? They certainly couldn't take this complaint to the authorities. So the two decide to find some easy marks, people who wouldn't be very familiar with U.S. currency. They drive to another city across the state lines and find a deserted Quickie-Mart with a foreign-looking gentleman behind the counter. Into the store they walk where the first con man conspicuously asks his partner, 'Hey Joe do you have a few bucks I can borrow to fill my tank?' The second con man answers, 'Sure John but the smallest I have is an eighteen. Excuse me, Cashier, could you break an eighteen dollar bill for me?' He says to the store employee whose name tag appears to contain over half the alphabet and with no letter appearing twice. Whereupon the newly hired night manager replies, 'Yes, Yes, of course. And I am begging your pardon very much but would you like your change as two nines or three sixes?'

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Martin Blank]

Oh, for me it will. I'm going to stop by my bank every time I have to go to Best Buy and get a stack of $2 bills to pay them with.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[operagost]

That's mostly because they're ignorant, undertrained, and illiterate (since the denomination is written clearly thereupon). And colorblind in the case of the Sacajawea. I bet they would refuse a huge Eisenhower, Peace, Morgan, etc. dollar as well; because they'd never seen one before.

US 50cent coins ARE still being made

[SpammersAreScum]

The 50 cent piece hasn't been made in years, it has been phased out just like your currency, the only difference is we never quit accepting it, we just quit using it.

Sorry, no. The Kennedy half dollar is still being minted; you can get them here: US Mint. It's an understandable mistake -- you rarely see them in circulation; i.e. as you say "we just quit using it". I would also quibble with your "only minor changes since the late 1800s"; the "Barber" coins (through 1915 or so) are quite different from the later coins.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[operagost]

What are you talking about? They are still minting them.

http://catalog.usmint.gov/webapp/wcs/stores/servle t/CategoryDisplay?langId=-1&storeId=10001&catalogI d=10001&identifier=3000

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Manchot]

When I was in high school, I worked at a local Target as a cashier. Though it was not required, I held all $50's and $100's up to a light, to make sure that they had the polyester strip. (The store didn't issue any special pens, so we had to do things manually.) Since I worked at an extremely busy store, I had already had a good feel for money, though.

In the two years that I worked there, I accused exactly one person of counterfeiting. To me, the counterfeiting of the two fifties was obvious. I called my manager over to the lane, and was like, "I'm 99.9% sure that these are fake." She told me to take them anyway. About fifteen minutes later, after the line had died down, I took the bills over to the TPS (the security guy who stands at the front door). Sure enough, they were fake, and I got to go on record making my manager look like an idiot.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Deadstick]

I was standing outside Buckingham Palace waiting to see the Changing of the Guard, when a mounted cop rode over and herded us away from the gate to make way for a royal coach carrying a man in a Nehru hat. A lady next to me, obviously a fellow Yank, asked him "Who's the guy in the funny hat?" This dialogue ensued:

"That's the Ambassador from Mali, ma'am."
"What country is that?"
"Well, it's...Mali, ma'am."
"Well, where the hell is that?"

Whereupon the cop remembered urgent business elsewhere. I leaned over and said "It's on the Canadian border between Vermont and Manitoba. We depend on them for ball bearings."

She went away obviously satisfied.

rj

Which is worse...

[stretch0611]

Ok, refusing to take legal $2 bills is pretty bad, But isn't accepting $200 bills worse?

Sounds Familiar

[Icephreak1]

This reminds me of the time I went to a local variety store here in Toronto and handed the cashier a ten dollar bill that had been out of circulation for a decade. Being the immigrant nation this is, he didn't recognize it. With a look on his face that approached vile disgust, he said "what is this?" I said "that's legal tender, buddy."

He took the bill.

- IP

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Deanasc]

When I was a kid I wanted to be a cop badly. So when highschool came around they gave us some aptitude test that was supposed to tell us what our future careers should be. I filled out the career survey saying I'd like to be a police officer. When my test came back it suggested I be a doctor. It specifically recommended I not be a cop as I'd likely be bored sitting in a cruiser late at night. So I thought about it and decided I'd most likely be bored driving a cop car aimlessly around town. Anyway, if you're smart you probably are steared away from becoming a law enforcement officer in school.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[coopex]

Ok, I see your point, numimatics is a hobby of mine so what's rare to you is something I would consider "merely" uncommon. And working in retail 4 year, ouch. A year cashiering at OfficeMax was almost enough to drive me mad.

Do you take American money?

[Thundrbo1t]

Try this sometime at Wal-Mart or any other store. Ask if they will take Hawaiian money? I got all the way up to management before I said that I would just pay with my CC. So I can see how playing a joke like that would really screw up there brain.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jhobbs]

After my recent trip to the US (I live in the UK), I was baffled to why on earth the lowest base denomination was a note (bill) instead of a coin,

Have you ever seen a G-string full of dollar coins? I rest my case.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[ashot]

thats for a conviction buddy

So, they admitted false arrest?

[TheMCP]

If they police told him they knew he was innocent, and arrested him anyway, they admitted that it was a false arrest... which is actionable... and maybe even a violation of his constitutional rights.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[fr2asbury]

We get dollar coins back in change from the vending machines where I work. Plug in a five for a candy bar, my change is four dollar coins (some Susan B, but usually Sacajawea), a quarter and a nickel.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[StratoChief66]

actually, above 80 cents last I checked and was 85 cents a few months before that.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[cowscows]

Why did they have to wait for them if they knew the money was legit? Is there a law that says if some random cashier thinks money might be bogus, then you can't go till the secret service checks it out? I think that's putting a little too much power in the hands of a register monkey.

"Police action" for a tort? Fuhgeddaboutit

[John Jorsett]

Bolesta was contacted by the store, and was threated with police action

I'm not sure what "police action" would be (maybe being sent to Vietnam?), but I know that this would be a civil, not a criminal matter. The cops would tell the business to sue for their money and stop wasting law enforcement's time.

Re:"Police action" for a tort? Fuhgeddaboutit

[gerardrj]

Theft of service is a crime in most states. If you use a service and don't pay for it you can be arrested by the police and charged with a crime. In Arizona it's a felony, even if the amount is only one cent.

In this case he used the installation service and was being asked to pay for it.

Re:"Police action" for a tort? Fuhgeddaboutit

[fishbowl]

"Theft of service is a crime in most states."

If no demand is made for payment, and there is no reasonable basis to believe payment is due, there is no theft.

Turn that around and realize if it were otherwise, you could demand payment for services that were never agreed upon, at rates that were not negotiated or even disclosed.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[fr2asbury]

The Sacagawea coin was made to not only be the same size and weight as the Susan B Anthony dollar, it was made of a special allow that has the same conductivity as the old Susan B. This way any machine that could take an old dollar coin can take the new with no modification.
I have yet to see one that can take the Eisenhower dollar coin that I carry around with me though.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Deadstick]

Then after a while the old coin ceases to be legal tender, although it can still be exchanged at banks.

I'm told the B of E will even redeem the phony fivers left over from the failed German counterfeiting operation of WW2...though I imagine they'd be worth more than £5 as collector's items.

rj

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[brontus3927]

Six Flags locations use these also. If you play a game, you give your dollar to the kid working the game, and the kid puts a one dollar coin in the machine. Supposed to stop theft and such, but it makes the kid's life a lot easier since it's quicker and easier to count $250 in rolled coins then it is in $1 bills, especially through the smock because the money isn't supposed to be out of the smock

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[dougmc]

Apparently at the time McD's had a policy where they were much more worried if you had extra cash since it means you ripped off a customer

I worked in the cash office at the local grocery store for several years. (Overall, I wasted six years at that place. Leaving was one of the best things I ever did.)

There, we generally treated overages and underages the same -- if you're over $5, you got punished just like you would if you were under $5. (Though for an isolated incident, $5 was no big deal.)

Amounts under $1 were considered OK and not worth any sort of write-up or anything. But even $100 wouldn't mean a lot of extra manager work -- just that we'd double check our counting of the till and that would be that. (The checker, on the other hand, would get in trouble for that much. Not fired, but trouble. They'd have to count their own till (the thing that holds the money) for a while and if their money control didn't improve, they'd get fired eventually.

I tend to believe that we were more picky about who we hired than the local McDonalds -- certainly, we'd interview people and not hire them, and they'd appear at McDonalds. And we generally hired kids as baggers rather than cashiers, so we got a chance to know them before promoting them. So I'm guessing that McDonalds probably did NOT freak out about a till being $0.10 off, even if it happened every day -- otherwise, they'd be freaking out all the time.

Last I heard, 8% of the US population had worked at McDonalds at some point in their life :)

As for $2 bills, they showed up in the cash office on a regular basis, and I'd snag them (replacing them with 2 $1 bills, of course!) I used them for tips and the like, since they were a bit unusual. Hopefully no waitress thought I was giving her fake money :)

The store was much stupider...

[TheMCP]

The store was far stupider if they actually told the guy the installation was free, and later called to threaten arrest. If they pulled that stunt on me, I'd get their number and tell them I'd call them back, call the attorney general's office, and report the store for fraud and/or blackmail.

They may get away with that kind of BS a lot of the time, but the store manager only has to run into one pissed off consumer like me to get arrested.

Re:The store was much stupider...

[cowens]

See, this is the way a reasonable adult would deal with the situation.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[dougmc]

That's because they're shaped almost exactly like quarters.

Um, yes they are, except for the ridges on the outside of the quarter.

They're also shaped exactly like the penny, nickle and dime -- they're round!

I think what you were trying to say is that the dollar coins are almost exactly the same size as a quarter, and that's correct.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Drishmung]

At one time, he would have got the clerk hanged.

Back when paper money was first used in Britain, passing conterfeit money was a felony.

The punishment for a felony---any felony, was death.

Some people were not happy with taking paper money, rather than good, solid gold sovereigns. So, refusal to take the new paper money was made an offence---was made a felony!

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[rttichnor]

there is a scam that starts with the phrase, "You've made a small mistake, you gave me too much money" .

I was a waiter once. The scam starts out as stated, then the scam escalates by the scammer giving back some money and then saying "I've made a small mistake," . After a few of these 'mistakes' a cashier may be caught off guard, especially if the scammer is very friendly. The victim loses count and then the victim has lost some money.

I can see why someone may have said what they said, especially if you asserted yourself as being friendly.

Here's a post 9/11 tale for ya..

[EvilStein]

Friend of mine and I do Geocaching a lot. We had placed a cache in a field directly north of the Sacramento International Airport. This particular cache was not on the airport property at all.

Check out this image to see what I mean.

Some other Geocachers went to find it post 9/11 and found the Sacramento County Sheriff department all OVER them & the cache. Before 9/11, nobody thought about it, but post 9/11, the paranoia had kicked in.

We decided that it would be best to retire that particular cache. :|

Re:Here's a post 9/11 tale for ya..

[fossilstar]

My wife and I were fossil-hunting at a roadcut near the Cincinnati (CVG) airport, but were made to leave after police arrived. They were concerned because we were only about a quarter-mile from where they're building a new runway, and I guess they had to make sure we didn't time-warp into the future and throw Flexicalymene fragments at future aircraft in heinous acts of TUR-ism.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Deanasc]

Yes they could have made that judgment call themselves. They could have taken his name and address and if the bills were counterfeit they could issue a warrant for his arrest. If they were real they could forget about it.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Citizen of Earth]

It could be called a dollar coin. That would be neat.

ObBushBash: Or they could put Dubya on it and call it a "loonie".

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Short Circuit]

For tips, my family uses Susan B's and Scajawea dollars. Failing that, my mother might significantly over-tip, folding the bill into an origami swan whose wings flap if you pull on the tail. It's interesting to ask the waiter/waitress later if they unfolded it.

Now that the campus vending machines take dollar coins, though, I've stopped carrying them around as often. Since getting product for a single coin doesn't feel as expensive as, say, four coins, I tended to spend a lot more than I should on drinks and snacks.

Of course, now that the campus-ID-and-debit-card is accepted at a lot of the machines, it's become a concious effort not to over-spend again. Especially since I need funds on it to get out of the parking ramp.

Cops Don't Have 6-8 Degrees, Nor Should They

[nick_davison]

I worked for a couple of years as a bank teller.

The question is not, as you claim, whether it's reasonable to hold someone given reasonable suspicion. The question is how much doubt must be present -- this man attempted to use legal tender to satisfy a debt, and given my cash-handling experience I don't see any reason to have doubted him.

Exactly. You were a bank teller. Your job was to handle money, handle money and, uh, handle money.

If your training and experience did not involve significantly more understanding of money than a police officer is required to have, in order to have reasonable doubt, then you really shouldn't have worked as a bank teller.

I'm a programmer. There will be cases that are completely obvious to me that are not hacking. That in no way invalidates an officer saying, "OK, there's enough here for me to be suspicious enough to hold someone until I can get an expert to tell me one way or the other."

The officer didn't know. Nor, frankly, was it his job to know. If we required every police officer to have the training and experience of a bank teller in order for them to be able to deal with counterfeiting, what other training should we also require? We should definitely have them gain qualification as mechanics in order to be able to tell the difference between a scuffed VIN number and one that was actually tampered with. As with the hacking issue, a four year bachelor's in Computer Science should probably be sufficient. And, given things like identical twins and other false positives in those areas that an expert could also dismiss, a medical degree is an absolute must too. So, these fifty year old guys with their six or eight degrees... How much do tax payers pay them again?

You were a bank teller. It was your job to know these details about cash. He was a police officer. It was his job to know enough to have a pretty good idea when and when not to be suspicious enough to hold someone until he can get an expert to give him more information.

Ask the officer to quote miranda rights or penal codes, he'll likely be an expert. Ask him to quote, with the same degree of knowledge as a bank teller, the signs for counterfeit money and of course he'll fall down. His job is to have a fair idea of when to be suspicious and then to get an expert. If we wanted every cop in America to have the amount of education necessary to know as much as professionals in every field tey investigate, we'd be paying 100% tax and then some in order to keep these fine professionals.

Given your experience, it was unreasonable. Given his experience, it was something he considered reasonable.

Re:Cops Don't Have 6-8 Degrees, Nor Should They

[sirket]

Well hell- why require the cops to know anything. Let's just arrest anyone for anything at any time! I think you are hacking into slashdot- I want you arrested. The cop doesn't know so you should be taken to jail?

This country was built on the bedrock of freedom- innocent until proven guilty. Arresting a man, leaving him cuffed in front of a store full of people and then taking him to the police station makes him look guilty and clearly infringed on his right to liberty.

Any fucking person who is not brain dead and actually looked at a new bill has seen the ink smudge. I've never worked in retail or in a bank and I've seen the ink smudge. Christ 20 years ago in my elementary school we were taught about counterfiting and that ink can and will smudge on new bills.

Before you arrest someone you had damned sure better have probable cause and slightly smudged ink sequential serial numbers should _never_ be enough to deprive someone of their freedom- even for a short while. They could have called the secret service and asked them if the ink can smudge and found out the answer right then and there.

Oh well- I guess it is to be expected in the fascist neo-conservative country formerly know as the land of the free.

-sirket

Re:Cops Don't Have 6-8 Degrees, Nor Should They

[hankaholic]

If your training and experience did not involve significantly more understanding of money than a police officer is required to have, in order to have reasonable doubt, then you really shouldn't have worked as a bank teller.

You'd be surprised by how little training is required of tellers. They're glorified cashiers. I was trained for about two weeks on the teller systems (the terminals) and bank procedures (where do you put the checks at the end of the day?) but basically untrained with respect to detecting counterfeits.

What evidence do you have that my training involved "significantly more understanding of money than a police officer is required to have"?

About as much evidence as you've presented to support your claim that sequential numbers are suspicious. I again invite you to justify your statement to that effect, and further invite you to justify your assertion about bank teller training.

It seems to me that you're just making assumptions which turn out to be false. I'm not insulting your logic here, but surely you cannot claim that arguments based on false premises are sound.

If we required every police officer to have the training and experience of a bank teller in order for them to be able to deal with counterfeiting, what other training should we also require?

Did I say that such requirements should be imposed? You are acting like I said that the officer should have cash-handling experience equal to my own. I invite you to provide a quotation in which I said as much.

What I do expect is for the police officer to respond in a manner proportional to the amount of threat involved, something I would expect their training to cover. I would expect an officer to provide a reasonable reaction and to treat someone with respect and dignity as much as the situation allows.

I claim that if the man had presented a clear threat which justified putting him in leg irons in front of other customers, the Baltimore County Police spokesman would have mentioned such a thing rather than making a vague comment about post-9/11 paranoia. Given the lack of a statement to that effect I find it reasonable to assume that the man was not violent and did not present a clear threat which justified the use of leg irons. As a programmer, you should understand this propositional application. If you do not, I would be happy to lay it out for you.

There can't be a thread on /.

[SengirV]

Without the obligatory Bush Bashing. I bet Kerry would have trained all the tellers in the US about $2 bills by now.

Wrong-o, and here's why...

[Weaselmancer]

Just try to tuck a Euro into a dancer's garter belt.

Low denomination bills have their uses. ;^)

Re:Wrong-o, and here's why...

[YetAnotherDave]

and the dancers don't seem to be complaining :)

Re:Wrong-o, and here's why...

[Lars T.]

Somehow I have the feeling that this is the deciding factor for most politicians.

Re:Wrong-o, and here's why...

[dmatos]

Up here in Canada the smallest bill is a five. When you go to some strip joints, however, you can purchase $1 "coupons" in convenient paper, which tuck into g-strings quite nicely. Elegant solution to the problem, IMHO.

Re:Wrong-o, and here's why...

[crazyeddie740]

Except for the problem of incriminating coupons in your pocket...

Re:Wrong-o, and here's why...

[jerde]

Why am I getting a slot-machine image here...

*shudder*

Re:Wrong-o, and here's why...

[Bios_Hakr]

My firends tell me that most clubs force you to buy "Euro notes" at the door. Basicly, you give them 50 euros and they give you 50 slips of paper worth one euro. You can use them for drinks and girls. The next night, the bills will be a different color and/or have different writing on them.

I'd thought about slipping in with a PDA, WiFi, and a scanner. Send a bmp of the bill to someone outside with a laptop and small printer. Print several hundred of the bills and then slip into the club. Let drunken night of whore-plundering fun begin.

Then my buddies reminded me that the clubs are all mafia-controlled. Fucking with the european mafia is likely to get you buried in Brataslava.

Re:Wrong-o, and here's why...

[aug24]

Yeah, but see how little dance you get for one euro... and she ain't coming over to you again!

J.

Re:Wrong-o, and here's why...

[pommiekiwifruit]

Actually last night I tucked a £5 note (about US$10) into a cutie's back pocket, which they were happier with than a dollar bill :-)

IIRC at some strip nights in the UK you can actually buy US$1 bills for the strippers.

Re:Wrong-o, and here's why...

[Pet Doctor]

Do you have twice as much fun if you go to a strip joint w/ a wad of $2 bills?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Zemran]

Makes me not miss the old "Isaac Newton" quid

I used to like paying for things in Royal Bank of Scotland one pound notes as everyone thinks that the pound note is no longer legal tender while it is only the English pound note that is no longer legal tender. The Bank of Scotland 100 pound notes are not legal tender south of the border though. so do not try them.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Fortunately for my friend, a vacationing Washington State Trooper was in the bar and convinced the bartender to pay for the replacement card -and- cover my friend's party's tab for the evening.

Wow, and whoever said there's never a cop around when you need one?

Re:Legal Tender

[hunterx11]

I've always thought that drug dealers should use stamps. I mean, a roll of first class non-presorted stamps is worth a few thousand dollars, but most people would probably guess it's worth a few hundred. That, and it has a fixed value.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[haydon4]

I was locked up over something like this. The cashier thought I stole my mothers credit card. Which was a legitimate thought since it was reported stolen by my mother.


Well now that would make it stolen, wouldn't it?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[brother_b]

$2 bills are not discontinued. The most recent series I'm aware of is series 2003. I've spent hundreds of dollars worth of them over the past several months. And like this guy, mine were all in sequential serial number order, as I got them from the bank in uncirculated bricks still in the Bureau of Engraving and Printing wrappers.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[deathazre]

the coins would fit well... just not in the g-string itself

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[SpaghettiPattern]

Yes, but given that most things have to accept coins *and* bills, wouldn't it make more sense to replace low-denomination bills with coins?

Visit somewhere in Europe and see how it makes sense.

The fact is that northern Europeans like 1EUR coins and southern Europeans don't. Allegedly Italian (men) dislike coins because they cause their wallets to bulge and make their pants inelegant. The Italian are the best dressed people in the world so they care. But we're on /. so you probably wouldn't understand the word elegance outside a coding style context ;) The odd thing is that most Italians are poor moneyless cheap bastards so I see a contradiction in terms... Anyway.

Before you moderate "-3 Insulting" you should know I'm Italian so I have a right to make these statements -although I should refrain from them.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[BiggerBoat]

it's been 20 years or so since I've even seen a 50-cent piece.

Clearly you don't play blackjack (or don't hit blackjacks). I usually go to Vegas about once a year, and I always come home with 50 cent pieces after playing blackjack. Sometimes I wonder if Vegas is keeping them in circulation.

Kangaroos in Austria

[mamladm]

That reminds me of a holiday in Vienna, Austria. They have these T-shirts they're selling in the souvenir shops. The T-shirts have a slogan printed on them which goes

"There are NO kanagaroos in Austria."

Apparently, too many tourists, presumably from the US, did ask the taboo question over there ;)

Re:Kangaroos in Austria

[Deadstick]

Yep, got that T-shirt last year....in Salzburg actually, but we saw it in Vienna too.

I liked the "Walk of Fame" stars in the Vienna sidewalk...just like the ones in Hollywood except the names are Mozart, Beethoven, von Weber, et al.

rj

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Rick the Red]

And the other half of us thought, "That's it, I'm never going to Best Buy again!"

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[glockNine]

Homer and Comic Book Guy walk into Moe's

Homer: "When you've got a bum ticker like we do, you need all the friends you can get. And Moe's is the friendliest place in the Rum District."

Homer opens the door. Moe is pointing a shotgun across the bar at the guy with the hunting cap.

Moe: "Get out and take your Sacajawea dollars witch ya. I'll give you till three" (he cocks the shotgun as the guy starts to run). "One." (he pulls the trigger).

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[spectre_240sx]

Who says it has to be bigger and heavier? It's not like coins are actually worth the money they represent anymore. They're the same as bills.

Re:REAL money

[rattler14]

--The US government issues cash currency.

no it doesn't, the federal reserve is not a government agency... try to look it up in the government pages, you won't find it.

--What would happen if we started mining asteroids, finding enormous amounts of gold, and bringing it back to Earth? Massive inflation.

you're right. I mean that is a much more likely scenario than, say, printing money out of thin air?

--Sorry for the lesson in modern currency concepts

nah, keep dreaming buddy, you'll wake up pennyless someday and not know why.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Belgand]

Frankly I personally dislike coinage of all sorts. I'd be totally in favor of having nothing but paper notes as they are vastly easier to carry and store in my wallet. For coins I need to keep them stashed in a pocket and then hunt around for them or carry some sort of coin purse.

True coins are essential for coin tricks and have a nice, hefty "real money" sort of feel, but they're just too damned inconvenient to ever spend (aside from using quarters on occasion).

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[inaeldi]

Coins, however, also last much longer than a bill and are harder to counterfit.

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[Anonymous Coward]

> You have no clue whatsoever what cops have to go through; you do not serve as one, nor do you have the training to understand the situation. So quite frankly my dear, you have no room to criticise.

Bullshit. He has the same right as you and I to due process, and you don't need any special training to know that. We all have to be able to understand the law in order to follow it.

Get this through your skull: the guy did nothing illegal. And even though he was suspected of counterfeiting, he was mistreated as a suspect, and discovered that cooperating with the police gets you nowhere. In today's paranoid version of Amerika, you are guilty until proven innocent.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Baricom]

Google is your friend. Yahoo! is also your friend.

"The $2 and $1 notes do not have a security thread." - http://www.accubanker.com/services/article3.phtml

"Chris Johnson, assistant to the special agent in charge of secret service in Houston, said he does not feel that the pens are accurate." - http://www.tamu.edu/upd/BCS_hit_with_forged_five_d ollar_bills.htm

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Waffle Iron]

They're imperceptibly thicker and larger. It's not a real polygonal rim, like some foreign coins I've seen. IIRC, that was the original idea, but the vending machine industry nixed that too. It's got an octogonal relief lightly carved into the perfectly circular rim. That's just about useless.

Smooth rim isn't very useful because old quarters get worn ridges and are almost smooth too. Color is only usefull under good lighting.

Face it, the mint screwed up. None of our other coins are anywhere near as close to each other. You don't need to apologize for their incompetence.

Re:REAL money

[rattler14]

again.

argue with me as you will, the federal reserve (though it has a token appointment to it's head position) is a private company

http://www.wealth4freedom.com/truth/3/powerfortr es s.htm

have you even looked for more than 5 seconds before you made your decision? NO.

Live in whatever world you want man... and laugh at people like myself... but i'll be fine when the US hits runaway inflation the likes of a Chile or post WWII Germany

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[spectre_240sx]

I think that has something to do with stores too. The only place I get smaller denominations (under $20.00) is from a store after having broken a larger bill. If those stores gave me coins rather than bills, then I'd be using bills. I don't really care either way.

Personally, I can't wait till the day when anyone can recieve money via a debit transaction. I'd love to be able to pay my rent or loan a friend money with the swipe of a card. I hate carrying cash.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Citizen of Earth]

"We don't even have 50 cent pieces up here..."

Sure we do. I have even gotten a couple in change, though I have about 10 of them in coin-collection sets.

Isn't a 'Looney' worth US$.50 ?...

US$0.8150, but who's counting. Rack up a bigger deficit and they might be at par again.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[dschuetz]

Anything minted since the last 1800s is still legal.

Actually, anything minted since forever is still legal.

I, for one, would be happy to pay you face value for any of those 1795 coins you found in your grandfather's attic.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Short Circuit]

1943, zinc-plated steel.

Theology/economics

[baomike]

Actually there is a lot of faith need involved in both.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Jah-Wren Ryel]

Excuse me, but how exactly does one equate suspected small-scale counterfeiting with hijacking airliners, flying them into buildings and killing thousands of people?

Because Sadam bought those terrorists their one-way tickets on 9/11 with counterfeit $2 bills.
Don't you know anything?

(yes, I am a plagarist, sosumi)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[DoctorFrog]

Sorry, but I was also a waiter once, and a bartender more than once, and a cashier way more than once, and I have no sympathy.
The fact that a scam can start with those words is a reason to be wary. It is not a reason to shut a person down before they have a chance to explain what the mistake was.
Many a scam starts out with "Hello" too. Assuming that every conversation which starts with "Hello" is a scam is not only stupid, it's bad business.
Assuming that your customers are con artists causes you to end conversations which would otherwise have benefitted you - as was the case with my conversation with the Woolworth's cashier.
I didn't make the assumption that the cashier I encountered was a typical employee, but if she treated others the way she treated me I'd imagine that Woolworth's lost a hell of a lot of business. .. probably far more than they saved by shutting off conversations with conmen who then went on to find other avenues for exploitation.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Thornkin]

I think that is a lot of what is broken with the system. To try to avoid a little bit of abuse, we take away all discretion. This has the effect of causing more damage than it removes. This is but one example. Others are kids being arrested or suspended for bringing drugs (aspirin) or guns (1" GI Joe plastic guns) to school. If the cops know that something isn't wrong, they should be able to tell the store manager and clerk that they are idiots and let this guy go. I hope he can sue.

I'm not sure whether I should never shop at Best Buy again or whether I should go buy something with $2 bills.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[dschuetz]

Whn I was younger, US bills were "silver certificates" -- backed by and redeemable in silver. They were withdrawn from the market, and are no longer legal tender (since 1968). So this kind of widthdrawl of currency from the market has occurred in recent times.

Actually, Silver Certificates (and Gold Certificates too) are still legal tender. They're worth exactly what they say, just in dollars. You can no longer redeem them for precious metal, but if you take it to a bank (and can convince them that it's not fake), then, yes, they'll give you face value for it. (you might need to go to a large bank, come to think of it).

Of course, that'd be stupid. Take it to a coin shop. Or better yet, go to a coin shop, get the appropriate sleeves for them, and take good care of them, and shop around for the best price. Good-condition bills, especially of the more unusual designs, are worth a LOT of money.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[rnelsonee]

What's funny is I just went to a stadium tonight and ended up getting lots of $x.50 in change - every time it was a 50 cent piece. No clue on why, but it was from several different vendors/cash registers, so I think they all had a tray for 50 cent pieces. Weird. It might be due to the fact that it was government - maybe they end up with the private-sector-unfriendly 50c pieces (this was a US Naval Acadamy lacrosse game).

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Ramze]

Police protocol is to put everyone they arrest in handcuffs. This is for everyone's safety and is in most states a legal requirement when making an arrest. The cashier claimed this guy gave her counterfiet money and had evidence that the notes smeared which is often a sign of counterfieting, so the police had to detain the suspect until the SS arrived. The SS aren't going to come running down to the store in the next 5 to 10 minutes to clear everything up, so that means the police had to take the person into custody and arrest him until the proper authorities could arrive. They have a charge, a suspect, and evidence. They cuffed him and took him to the station like they're supposed to. (They would have done the same thing if someone claimed he exposed himself and it was just one person's word against another -- they'd book him, make him pay bail and set a trial date, then release him on bail if he paid. Even if the police are inclined to believe your story over the other's, that's how it works. Innocent until proven guilty, but you're arrested on a charge with evidence or testimony.) They followed proper police protocol exactly to the letter and could actually be sued or reprimanded if they did otherwise. If the guy HAD been a criminal and made chase or became violent or reached for a gun, we'd be reading about how idiot police officers ended up losing the guy, shooting him, or having a stand-off where people got hurt. The protocols are in place for everyone's protection. Yes, it sucks that the cashier was unfamiliar w/ $2 bills and that the officers were unaware that $2 bills' ink can smear under usual funny-money testing markers, but don't assume the officers didn't do what they "should" have done. This guy was an ass trying to get "payback" by paying in unusual currency and he got an unusual situation out of it. I say he got what he deserved. He can sue for false arrest and emotional pain if he likes at this point and see if the court believes he deserves compensation for his trouble, but it's really noone's "fault" here. The cashier was doing her job to the best of her ability (not everyone knows about $2 bills, $1 and 50 cent coins, etc.) and the bills smeared, so she called the cops as she was trained when a bill failed that test. The cops responded and acted in accordance with how they were trained. The SS arrived, cleared him of the charges, and had him released. Where he goes from here is his business. He can sue if he thinks he deserves something for the misunderstanding, but I doubt he'll get much of anything.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Austerity Empowers]

You might as well ask why people still use money instead of debit cards pulling directly from their banks.

Debit card withdrawals are traceable for one, that can be evil. They require some sort of communications device which is not always practical on a vending machine for two. The third is do you really want to trust every little mom and pop shop with your bank account info and PIN code? Sure you enter it into a keypad, but it's not a hard job to figure out what buttons were pushed...

Credit cards are better if you have the discipline to pay them off monthy. Cash is still king though, I don't want anyone knowing what, when or where I buy stuff. It can only hurt or at best irritate me.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[mr.mighty]

Dammit, I didn't take high school economics. I am majoring in it at university - is that OK?

There was a big story when the toonie came out. Finance was excited, because each bill in circulation represents an obligation, whereas each coin minted and circulated represents the sale of an asset. Every time they traded a $2 bill for a toonie, they improved their net position by $4 less the cost of producing the coin.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[noewun]

Of course, flattening a dollar bill on a railroad track isn't NEARLY as impressive.

Hear, hear! You just brought back some childhood memories!

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[winwar]

"Under the circumstances, the whole situation could have been avoided by a little education on the part of the Best Buy cashier. I still think this needs to be done, and rather painfully. However, the local police seemed to follow proper protocol. Ink on U.S. currency doesn't usually smear or smudge because it's usually handled often enough for the excess to wear off quickly."

Um, sorry, I don't buy it. A low wage clerk needs educated but the police were only following protocol?!? I refuse to let the police off this easily. I can see the cashier's point of view (especially if you assume the customer was disgruntled). But the police? Sorry, if anyone should have known better it would be them. The police come out as larger idiots than the cashier.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[eno2001]

Yup. You're in the visually challenged group of people who don't "get it". Congrats comrade on being a good citizen of the state! Err... I mean, congratulations on being a good American.

(Who needs "in Soviet Russia" when you live in a truly evil empire?)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[howlingmoki]

Nono .. GO to that Best Buy. Buy a spindle of blank CDs, a candybar, whatever. Just be sure to stop at your bank first and get some $2 bills.

In fact, I would encourage anyone who has to go to Best Buy (though I would strongly recommend against it if there is any choice other than Walmart) to pay with $2 bills. Partly as a form of protest, partly to encourage awareness and use of this often-ignored LEGAL CURRENCY

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[winwar]

"The police sympathized with him and pretty much knew he was innocent, but they still could not make that judgement call themselves and had to wait for the Secret Service to arrive and verify that they were in fact not counterfiet."

No, actually they were gutless wimps and a prime example of worthless law enforcement officers. If they knew he was innocent, but didn't release him immediately, they are screwed (think lawsuit).

But let's face it, those types of "professionals" are more concerned about the opinions of morons above them than a lawsuit that the taxpayers will have to pay....

And police seriously wonder why people have a low opinion of them?!?

Re:REAL money

[baomike]

I'm glad to hear the Fed Reserve is not part of the government.I was afraid Bush was going to appoint Greenspan as Chairman. Seems like the Treasury should also have a hand in all this somewhere.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Clay Pigeon -TPF-VS-]

Eep! A slashdotter from my town! Get the pitchforks!

But seriously, why are you going to GRCC instead of GVSU? The only valid excuse would be culinary arts...

(yes I can take the karma hit)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[NormalVisual]

On the other hand, coins last *far* longer than bills do, so over time they're probably more cost-effective for the government. It's rather common to find 30-40 year old coins in pocket change.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[nytmare]

If the one dollar coins want to see any circulation, it's up to the retail industry to do it. They're the ones that get the coins and other low denominations from the banks.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[gswallow]

After a trip to Ireland, where everything under two euros was a coin, I came back to the states with a pocket full of "junk change" -- after all, real money is in bills, right?

Ended up being over $100.00 I was carrying around.

I guess the confusion goes both ways.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[assassinator42]

But then there would be no more horsey/poney rides for a penny. :-( (For those that haven't been in Meijer stores, they have mechanical horses that kids can take rides on for a penny.)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[RzUpAnmsCwrds]

"Yes it does. Most countries aren't so silly as to make all of their bill denominations the same size and color. But that's another rant."

Wow. You know, they *do* print the value of the bill on the front.

Not to mention that the new-$20 *does* have a different color, as does the new-$50, as will the new-$10.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[TopShelf]

I'd question whether coins are actually more expensive to make - consider that they last much longer than paper currency, so in the long run might be cheaper from a purely production sense. Anybody got hard data???

Currency riddles...

[Pfhorrest]

Reminds me of a great riddle I heard once...

Which TWO of these coins has NEVER been minted in the U.S.?

Penny
Two cent
Three cent
Nickle
Dime
Quarter
Half dollar
Dollar

Most people will immediately say two cent and three cent, which you, Kula, would probably recognize as false.

The correct answers are Penny and Nickle. No coins by those names have ever been minted in the United States. They are one-cent and five-cent pieces. :-)

Another related joke:

I hold in my hands TWO currently minted U.S. coins whose total value equals 55 cents. One of them is NOT a nickle (or 5 cent piece, for that matter). What are the two coins?

People usually get stumped here, because the only combination is a 50 cent and a 5 cent. Which is the correct answer.

One of them is not a nickle. That one is a half dollar. The OTHER one is a nickle. (Hey, I never said NEITHER was a nickle, just one of them...)

Actual release dates

[totoanihilation]

Well, my interest was piqued, so I looked up the release dates of our various coins...

Toonie: 1996
Loonie: 1987

So my memory was WAY off base here. We've had our loonies for almost 20 years already!

Source

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Funny how you can run across an old BofE pound or blue note in a desk drawer or old suit of clothes. Not worth a damn thing now! And you think "why didn't I know that was lying there, back then, when I was skint?"

It's in the states I always find the old stuff. No good on visits, nowadays.

Didn't know that about Bank of Scotland. Funny! I don't know if I ever laid eyes on one - never was north of Leeds. Got Robbie Burns on it, I suppose?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[terrymr]

Funny, when I lived in England I lived near a small town called Delaware.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Fizzog]

"No choice either, there are no $1 or $2 bills anymore." In Australia there are $1 and $2 coins. 1c and 2c coins ae no longer legal tender. The smallest denomination is now 5c, and has been for some time.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[srleffler]

Of course, if you had $2 bills (or coins) in common circulation, you would have to carry a lot fewer $1 bills (or coins). $2 bills are very convenient.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Moofie]

I say it has to be bigger and heavier, so it's not a pain in the ass to separate out from coins of other values.

Actually, I'd rather it were a nonagon. That'd be sweet.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Short Circuit]

Cheaper by the credit hour. I'm still working on my Associates in Arts...then I'll transfer to a four-year institution. (Preferably MTU, but I'm still working out how I'd pay for certain necessary medications without the parents' health insurance.)

Actually, I live in Ravenna, about 14 miles north of Coopersville. A better question would be, what are you doing up this late? ;)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[srleffler]

It didn't take that long for $1 bills to disappear when Canada switched. Small bills typically last less than two years in circulation before they are too worn to be used. The banks send worn bills back to the government for replacement.

I iced down eight quarters.

[HornWumpus]

Then dropped them down the front of a strippers g-string.

They would have thrown me out, but I worked next door and was a steady customer.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jacksonj04]

Debit cards are a wonderful thing. It's a shame more places can't accept them.

Or something like Visa Cash, which was a micropayment system designed by Visa, where you topped up your card (similar to prepay mobile phone) then used it for insignificant payments (such as a newspaper) up to stupidly overpriced payments (such as a latte).

Nope.

[wantedman]

That said, the rest of the criminal gene pool for this type of activity is probably too stupid to even think of using a "non-repeating pseudo-random sequence".

I have seen people use the SAME serial number on multiple bills. But to physically change the serial number AND take the time to order them sequentially is above and beyond the call of criminal duty.

Re:Nope.

[thePjunisher]

I've always been under the impression that consecutive serial numbers mean the bills came directly from the bank (as in robbery), not directly from the counterfeiter...

Re:Nope.

[kosmicki]

Or if you got a withdrawl from a freshly-opened-straight-from-the-mint pack o' twenties.. I've gotten sequential bills lots of time, only a few cashiers have noticed. I've had ONE cashier ever check my $20 with a counterfeit pen. And it was a single bill, never for those multi-hundred dollar purchases.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[scottmm01]

I live in maryland and only about 30 mins for California and 20 form hollywood. Also for the anime nuts when lived in Michigan i lived about 30 mins from a called LUM.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Mancat]

Umm, am I missing something? Why didn't you have them call your mother?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[hunterx11]

Those crafty bastards in Hong Kong have beat you to it.

*sigh*

[zbuffered]

I just checked the map to see if those two provinces were actually side-by-side.

Jesus, I should be posting as AC.

Please don't mod me up!

And no smartass comments about how my sig is ironic.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[meganthom]

I don't think dollar coins will be successful until the dollar bills are removed from circulation. I remember reading about this somewhere, and it seems that in other countries, widespread use of larger coins didn't pick up until the corresponding notes were taken off the market.

We have a change machine near our vending machines that returns dollar coins. All of the vending machines accept them, so I frequently have a few dollar coins. I've never had trouble with cashiers accepting them, but they do generally give them a second look. I think the Sacagawea coins are fine--a completely different color.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[eric76]

One night in 1974, my younger brother and I stopped at a hamburger joint in another town for a bite to eat.

The bill should have been $4 and change, but it was $3 and change instead. It didn't take long to realize that the waitress had added it up incorrectly.

So when I was paying, I told her there was a mistake.

She carefully added up the bill again, took off another $1 and charged me $2 and change.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jonbryce]

I'm surprised that you still have $1 as paper money. That is about the same value as the old British 10 shilling note which has been out of circulation for a very long time now. The new 50p coin came out to replace that in 1969. The notes would have gone out of circulation sometime after that.

The smallest paper note we have now is £5, which is about $9.50

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[srleffler]

I have heard of an incident where the governor of New Mexico was mistaken for a foreign observer by another state governor at a meeting of state governors.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[anonicon]

And now you know where the religious refugees ended up.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[eric76]

I've tried several times to get $2 bills. The banks just never seem to have them.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Lars T.]

A little Googleing found this.

Dollar bills cost 4 cents to print. Dollar coins cost 8 cents to mint. But the paper bills have a useful life of 17 months. The coins last 30 years.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[mrchaotica]

Australian banks hand you US $50s and $100s if you arrange to get a few hundred dollars in cash before flying over.

US banks tend to give you $20s if you make a couple hundred dollar withdrawal.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Lars T.]

The bartender says: "Sorry, one dollar minimum charge."

Stripper skills

[HornWumpus]

If she had great 'skills' she could squirt out the correct number of nice warm dollar coins.

In fact I'd pay extra just for such 'change', but I'm a bit of a perv.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Nogami_Saeko]

Well, all they need to do is the same thing as the Canadian mint did...

Stop printing $1 bills. Eventually people will have to make the switch because there won't be any bills left after a few years.

N.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[slavemowgli]

Actually, it's not even that.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[parvati]

Perhaps because bills are lighter and easier to carry around? I hate coins--they're comparatively heavy, noisy when in your pockets, take up space, and can't be stored in a wallet (especially a thin wallet meant to go in form-fitting girl pants) nearly as easily as bills can be. All the change I get ends up in one of two places: my car, to use for parking meters, or a jar in my bedroom, to eventually be returned to the back for paper money.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[slavemowgli]

Here's something I'm wondering about - what does the Secret Service have to do with counterfeit bills, anyway?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jacksonj04]

Still, unless you go for a night out and drinks are exactly $1 you're going to end up with change regardless.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[toast-]

How about Canada? We did away with Dollars in 1987 and Two dollar bills in 1996. Vending machines routinely accept $2 coins and we don't give a rats ass about our old bills..

A $5 coin will be introduced soon, therefore what's with the US infatuation with $1 bills? Do you need to seem more wealthy with a wad full of worthless paper?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[swmccracken]

You could scrap pennies, yes. In New Zealand, we scrapped 1 and 2 cent coins without much difficultiy. It's quite possible that a 'quarter only' approach would work; (maybe quarters + fives or something.)

But you (ie: USA) have a slight issue:

You'd have to rejig your sales tax system to scrap penny coins.

If something is advertised at $4.00, you end up paying $4.00 + tax, and it's to allow for this tax which is often in the individual cent range, you have to keep the penny coin.

In New Zealand, by contrast, virtually all retailers quote tax-inclusive prices, and they're often rounded to 5 cents (our smallest coin is the 5 cent piece).

"Countries with low value coins generally have state and local consumption taxes which are added to the advertised prices of goods and services. Consequently, almost every cash transaction requires the exchange of very low denomination coins. In New Zealand, GST is almost always incorporated in the displayed price of products. Also, the use of electronic methods of making payments is more common in New Zealand than in most other countries.

Low denomination coins are unpopular in several developed countries. Finland has chosen not to issue 1 and 2 eurocent coins. Major retail organisations, banks and consumer organisations in the Netherlands have voluntarily agreed that all pricing should be in 5 eurocent intervals. A recent survey in the United Kingdom indicated that about 5 million people there regularly throw away low value coins. If Europe and the UK opted for lowest value coins of five eurocents and five pennies respectively these would be of similar value to a New Zealand 10 cent coin."

Reserve Bank of New Zealand.

I wonder if i was next at taco bell

[grahamsz]

They actually were the first people to ever give me a $2 in my change. I thought they were shitting me.

However i'd only been living in the US for a couple of months at this point.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[fm6]

I don't know anything about the Bank of Canada, but the U.S. Federal Reserve Bank has never been privately owned. It has a lot of autonomy (wouldn't do to have politicians fiddling with the money supply!) but ultimately it's an arm of the U.S. government.

Perhaps you're thinking of the Bank of England, the U.K.'s central bank. It was privately owned for most of its 300-year history, but has been government owned since 1946.

This story won't be over...

[Tau Zero]

... until the cashier and manager are fired, and Best Buy has paid Mr. Bolesta a large sum of money for his inconvenience.

But ideally, the law would put the manager and cashier in stocks with a sign saying "Morons Of The Week" over them, and people (starting with Mr. Michael Bolesta and family) would be able to throw overripe tomatoes at them for an hour, and the results would be printed up in color in the local Sunday paper.

Do you think that would be sufficiently humiliating to rein in rampant stupidity? I do.

Re:This story won't be over...

[Darby]

Damn straight.

I find your ideas intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.

No one will read this, but...

[SirBruce]

... this is a true story that happened to me at Purdue University at the Knight Spot Grill in Cary Quadrangle. My roommate and I were in there late one night. No one else was around, which was fairly typical. I ordered something to drink, paid in bills, and got a couple of quarters back in change. We then went over to the pinball machine to play a game. I put in the quarter but it went right through and out the change slot. I examined it and noted it was, in fact, a Canadian quarter.

I returned to the cashier whom had handed me the Canadian quarter moments before. "Excuse me," I said, "but you gave me a Canadian quarter. I'd like a real [US] one, please."

"I'm sorry, we don't take Canadian money."

"No, you don't understand. You gave this to me instead of an actual quarter. I want my correct change."

"No, that's impossible. We don't take Canadian coins, so I couldn't have given that to you."

I was incredulous. "You think I came in here with a Canadian quarter and arranged this just to steal 25 cents?" After a few more failed attempts to convince the flunkie, we gave up and left.

I never ate there again.

Bruce

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[toast-]

Try paying more attention next time. Do you know how to multiply by 1.6? It's not hard, pay attention to what your spending!

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[fm6]

Actually, it's not that hard to replace the dollar bills, since they generally wear out in a few years. Plus the Treasury has made a point of getting the older, easier-to-counterfeit designs out of circulation. If the U.S. has obsolete denominations in circulation, it has more to do with politics than anything.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[kernel_dan]

Last I heard, 8% of the US population had worked at McDonalds at some point in their life :)

According to Fast Food Nation, 1 in 8 Americans work at McDonald's at some point in their life. That statistic is high because it doesn't include people leaving McDonald's then getting re-hired.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Seumas]

Back in college, a local supermarket cashier, when handed a Susan B., asked "What is this, Mexican?" Which was especially surprising since not only had they been around for years but the supermarket adjoined a commuter rail station that had ticket machines that gave them as change; you'd think she would get them all the time.

Um. Not to mention the fact that American coinage says "UNITED STATES OF AMERICA" on it.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[afidel]

All US currency paper is made by Crane Stationary. Their Fluorescent White, woven paper is one of the best base papers to use for counterfeits at a mid level as it feels like currency and reacts to test pens the same way, however the Crane's watermark is a dead givaway for close inspection. The $2 bill has few of the modern anti-counterfeit measures, no color, no strip, and no watermark. Of course its rarity and low denomination make it an unlikely target for counterfeiters.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[AndroidCat]

If only we'd starting hanging the politicians instead. Oh well.

Protoplasm. Quiet Protoplasm. I like quiet protoplasm.

Damn! I read that story .. many lots .. of years ago. The Last Weapon?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[rynthetyn]

No, it's because carrying around a wallet full of $1 bills (vending maching cash) is a lot lighter than carrying around a wallet full of $1 coins.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[toast-]

You americans never learn. Just FORCE new coins, withdraw all the old bills and your done, life goes on, vending machines accept new coins, stores accept new coins..

In canada this is how it's done, however we can still spend the old bills/coins (whatever they are from 1800 and up), but this is not a problem. At least we accept our new coins as progress!

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jacksonj04]

$5 is not really a suitable amount for coins, in the UK although $5 coins do exist and are legal tender they never replaced £5 notes, since most things are either best paid for by burning your existing change or breaking into a £5 note.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[fm6]

Not just Vegas, but Reno, Atlantic City, and all those Indian casinos. Now that you mention it, they must love 50-cent pieces. They're just the right size for gaming, and they're hard to counterfeit, and they don't have to be specially minted.

You're right, I never go near casinos. I don't have the memory for blackjack, the self-control for poker, or the self-destructiveness it takes to play purely random games.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[sumdumass]

You might want to use more then one sock. It doesn't takem much weight to tear out a sock when swinging and then the mugger has all your money and you are now defensless with a piss off criminal.

I remeber stuffing rocks inot socks and taking beating things with it when i was younger (that and a mini baseball bat). After one or two swings with about a half pound of rocks, the end was gone and the rocks came out. Place 2 socks together and you could pound all day.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[dmatos]

I believe this type of scammer is called a "quick change artist." My mum has a great story about how she got taken for a couple of quid while working retail in London, only to take 10 pounds off the next guy that tried it by talking faster than him.

Re:I could be wrong...

[symbolic]

I always heard that a one-dollar bill has a big "1" on it, the five-dollar bill has a big "5" on it, the ten-dollar bill has a big "10" on it, and so on.

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[FuturePastNow]

The article you cited says the average IQ for cops is 104. That should still be enough to know what the fuck a two dollar bill is. This particular police department must have inbreeding issues.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Shajenko42]

The Secret Service is part of the Department of the Treasury.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[R3d M3rcury]

Well, one of the more entertaining bits and pieces of the Patriot Act is the new powers that Law Enforcement has to ferret out terrorism and money laundering.

Because, as we know, drugs pay for terrorism.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[sumdumass]

I'm not ready to walk around with 15 dollar in coins in my pocket when i can have 15 dollar bills.

Judging form other posts, it apears that in america, there are still quite a few products that can be puchased for little money. One dollar bills are quite plentifull here because we often get alot of changes back. I maybe wrong on the amounts but from reading the other posts it seems like the ! dollar coin in other countries just isn't used liek a five dollar bill or somehtign of the sort.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[fm6]

Well, when you're a small country (and your citizenry is relatively sane), it's a lot easier to force that kind of change. Then again, your dollar coin is called a "loonie", so don't get too smug.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[sumdumass]

It apears that you cannot buy too much in other countries for just a dollar anymore. I have noticed form other posts that the dollar in other countries is somethign like a quarter hear and is just anoying change given when breaking a larger bill. Here in the US, you can still buy quite a bit for a dollar or less. I would hate to see the day when we needed to goto the local store with fives instead of a couple ones to get a soda and some candy bars.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[toast-]

Again, just give it up. in Canada we get new coins, and the bills are gone, we fucking deal with it, and it's over. See?

Just get over it, and it will happen. FORCE your people to give it up

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[sumdumass]

Not all the bills are in circulation and don't all need to be replaced every year. I think the coins might be somewhat thje same way though. There is however quite a few paper dollars that don't make it out of the wrap that hold them. Banks are required to keep a certain amount of money on hand compared to the amoutn invested at thier location. It is possible to have piles of money that do nothing but sit there in case of an emergency or to comply with this regulation.

Re:Outrageously exceeding authority

[DavidTC]

In almost every state, you can detain a person you have witnessed commit an act you believe to be a felony.

A few states have the bar lower, and you can almost always get away with it if they actually did commit the crime, no matter what the standard is.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[ThresholdRPG]

The fact that all our money is green IS style.

Other countries and their gaudy monopoly money is not very stylish imho.

Furthermore, coins suck. I hate coins. They are a hassle to carry around. Bills fold nicely in a wallet and you're done.

Re:Um dear /. crowd

[srleffler]

RTFA. In this case, he was paying an installation fee after the fact. A day after the fact, in fact. Best Buy called him up at home and demanded that he come back in to pay this outstanding debt.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[J2000_ca]

It may be annoying however it's the law that the currency must be accepted. http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-52/text.html. There are limits put on the amount of small currency you can pay with however the guy could have come in with a thousand dollar bill and demanded change for it (in Canada).

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[mikeplokta]

Not everyone knows about $2 bills, $1 and 50 cent coins, etc.

She's a cashier; it's her job to know what currency is and is not valid.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[ThresholdRPG]

Yes it does. Most countries aren't so silly as to make all of their bill denominations the same size and color. But that's another rant./i?

Different sizes?

How idiotic is that.

Do you buy books where the pages are different sizes?

Bills being the same size makes it far easier to organize them and hold them in a wallet.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Grishnakh]

For any slashdotters that are currently between jobs, this may be a good way to make some money with a wrongful arrest lawsuit. I can't think of a retail store more deserving.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[slavemowgli]

OK, thanks. Weird...

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[sumdumass]

Yes, the fact that the vending machine take 2 dollar coins should say somethign. In these other countries, canada included, One dollar doesn't buy much compared to in the us. The value of a dollar bill is significantly more important to us compared to other places. Thats the major factor i guess. If you weren't used to sticking 2 dollars into a vending machine i guess you might have the same impression.

This does however raise the question of how to mask inflation. Get rid of the smaller common currency and people soon forget the amoutn of buying power it once had.

Quite ironic... jail time for the cashier?

[gerardrj]

What's ironic is that the money crime committed here was by the Best Buy employee. Title 18 Section 333 of the United States code makes it a crime to deface currency in any way so as to make the currency unfit to be re-issued. If this employee did in fact mark "counterfeit" on the bills, then those bills are ostensibly no longer able to be issued as currency.

That employee could be looking at up to 6 months in prison!

Re:Quite ironic... jail time for the cashier?

[RealCow]

Actualy, there are pens made specificaly for marking bills to see if they are real or not. It's perfectly legal.

Re:Quite ironic... jail time for the cashier?

[jkubecki]

No... There are pens made specifically for detecting starch, NOT for seeing if bills are real or not...

James Randi and Michael Shermer have been debunking this particular myth for years (I remember seeing it about 4 years ago in "Skeptic" magazine), but obviously people are still buying them...

Oblig. Simpsons Quote

[Dachannien]

(Marge shows Bart and Milhouse a Sacajawea dollar coin.)

Bart: "What is that, a quarter?"
Milhouse: "A Chuck E. Cheese token?"

Re:It's a small thing...

[stuffman64]

Yes, when I am not "hassling minimum wage slaves," I am in fact one myself (when not in class or studying). I do the same thing they do, and don't understand why some people can't grasp the fact that $2 bills are real, spendable money like any other bill.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Dachannien]

You mean like Wal-Mart?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[gerardrj]

There is no federal law that requires acceptance of cash as payment of a debt. It's up to local (state, county, city) jurisdictions to enact such laws themselves.

Let's put fault where it belongs.

[wereteddy]

Ok, I've worked retail. Its not fun. I certainly agree that customers don't always get treated like they should. However, there are a lot of factors to something like this. Personally this is how it breaks down to me.

Installation Woes:
If Best Buy forgot to charge him for the installation, they should've just eaten the cost. Never do you call someone back into the store to pay for a service you've already done. if they get out the door, that's your fault. It sounds like there was a mixup with the stereo anyway, so good customer service says you try to help the guy out.
Fault: Best Buy

Two dollar troubles.
Yes, $2 bills are legal tender. Yes, people should accept them. Yes, they are annoying and serve as nothing more than an opportunity to say "I'm right, you're wrong." Everyone knows that there is no slot in a cash drawer for the $2 bills. Moreover, I've personally never seen (not saying they don't exist) a deposit tally that allows you to list $2 bills. So, you're just making everyone's life hard so you can be an ass and look superior. Get over yourself and be kind.
Fault: Customer

Serious Smudging
So, you've got a person in front of you, who is already yanking your chain with these $2 bills. They insist you take them. Then, the bills smudge and on further inspection, have another odd (not impossible) trait. Criminals do the stupidest things on a daily basis. Its not beyond the realm of possbility for the bills to be faked in that manner. It's also not a case for automatic guilt. I guarantee you the cashier didn't call the police. It had to be something done at the management level. You can say the bills smudged or didn't smudge, looked fake or didn't. When it comes down to it, we weren't there. It is a judgement call you have to make at the time of the incident. There are lots of ways to fake a bill. Most law enforcement will tell you, "if it looks suspicious, don't take it." Unless of course, you have a customer that "insists" you take it. Basically, I believe Best Buy did the right thing to call the cops in this situation.
Fault: None, it really could have gone either way.

Arrested?
This is the part where it gets dodgey. Should a police officer, based upon the aforementioned situation, arrest a person? Hell, I don't know. It sounds like this guy was already looking to pick a fight with his $2 protest. Were it me, I probably would have detained him, but not arrested him unless it was absolutely necessary. Of course, if he refused to allow the matter to be cleared up in a normal fashion, then what do you do? At the point someone says "no, I won't let the authenticity of my bills be verified." Is that suspicious? My call, oh heck ya.
Fault: Unless you have it on tape. Who knows.

Post 9/11 world?!?
Good God, is anyone really that dumb?
Fault: Who in their right mind picks this guy as a spokesman?

Anyway, sounds like everyone could learn some lessons here. Best Buy needs to follow through better on charging its customers correctly. This guy needs to get a life and stop harassing cashiers with $2 bills. Finally, the police department needs to cut out the tongue of that officer so he can never speak again. :) Does Best Buy owe this guy a million dollars for following best practices with regards to currency? Oh hell no! Its the McDonalds coffee lawsuit all over again. We're not going to make anything better with MORE lawsuits.

Re:Let's put fault where it belongs.

[fishbowl]

"Does Best Buy owe this guy a million dollars for following best practices with regards to currency?"

It depends on who did the handcuffing, how it was done, and whether the detention or arrest was done as a result of a false or misleading statement made by a store employee to a police officer. If that was the case, the victim is due some restitution, and the person who made the false statement should do six months to a year in prison for it.

Re:Let's put fault where it belongs.

[binford2k]

Installation Woes:
If Best Buy forgot to charge him for the installation, they should've just eaten the cost. Never do you call someone back into the store to pay for a service you've already done. if they get out the door, that's your fault. It sounds like there was a mixup with the stereo anyway, so good customer service says you try to help the guy out.
Fault: Best Buy

Charging for prior consideration isn't allowed by US contract law. Unless there was something more to the story that we weren't told, what they were doing wouldn't stand up in court anyways.

Re:Let's put fault where it belongs.

[wereteddy]

It depends on who did the handcuffing, how it was done...

Who could do the handcuffing but the police? Best Buy doesn't employ anyone with the right to use handcuffs. They don't even have rent-a-cops (at least, not in any store I've ever been in), just standard loss prevention employees who are supposed to watch the store.

the person who made the false statement should do six months to a year in prison for it.

So, a cashier has to do jail time if they misidentify a counterfeit bill? That seems way off to me. Best Buy could not properly verify the authenticity of those bills. The customer, already wanting to be an ass (hence the $2 bills), refuses to pay by any other means. I still say Best Buy did the right thing. If the cops mishandled the situation as laid down by their guidelines, then the man has a legitmate grievance with the police, not Best Buy

Re:Let's put fault where it belongs.

[fishbowl]

"So, a cashier has to do jail time if they misidentify a counterfeit bill? "

No, if a store manager makes a false statement to a police officer or a judge, he should be liable for it.

I can't resolve this idea of "using a less common currency" as "being an ass", or any other problem.

Either it is legal currency, and it may be used to pay debts, or it is not. There is nothing in between, and nothing that justifies the events in the story.

Comment removed

[account_deleted]

Comment removed based on user account deletion

Paying with small denominations

[ubernostrum]

It seems to me that if a debt exists between myself and another party within the US, then I may pay that debt using any combination of legal tender of the US; if a regulation exists saying "debts above amount x may not be paid with tender of a denomination less than y", then I don't see how the denomination in question can be called "legal tender for all debts, public and private" (of course, that wording only appears on dollar bills, not on coins). So I'd also like to see the regulations which restrict this.

Re:Paying with small denominations

[hesiod]

> If I was to walk down the streets brandishing a shotgun, longsword or nuclear bomb I hope the police would infringe my right to keep and bear arms.

That's a bit convoluted. You have the right to bear arms, but it doesn't say you have the right to wave a sword around in everyone's face. So the police, in that case, would not be infringing on your right to bear.

Nice try, though. I bet someone was convinced into thinking about removing our Constitutional rights...

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[p3d0]

No, it's because carrying around a wallet full of $1 bills (vending maching cash) is a lot lighter than carrying around a wallet full of $1 coins.

This argument is bogus. This exact same argument could be made in favour of replacing quarters, dimes, nickels, and pennies with bills. Why don't you do that? Because the weight of the coins just doesn't matter in practice.

I'm not the strongest guy I know, but I can certainly manage to carry half a dozen loonies in my wallet without breaking a sweat. Personally, I'm looking forward to the $5 coins.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[workingstiff]

Actually, if you've ever seen how some of the strippers can pick up the coins (i.e. with what part of her body), I don't think you'd mind so much...

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[sumdumass]

there is something on regular currency that allows blind people to know what they are. I'm not sure were or what but they do know what bill you give them in change. I was standing in line behind a blind person that was a regular to a restuarant i worked at and saw a blind person actualy catch a mistake in the change given to them. He was by him self so i don't think anyone told him about the mistake.

I'm sure he was totaly blind too. HE would come in at night and drink coffee while wiating for one of the waitresses to get off and we would turn the lights on and off in that section of the dinning room and he wouldn't know the difference. The waitress dated hime for several years and she told us he couldn't see a thing either.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[fm6]

Jeeze, lighten up. With an attitude like that, you're living on the wrong side of the border!

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[imroy]

No, both the $1 and $2 coins have partial serations. They have gaps in the serations, about the same size as the serated sections. Can't seem to find a photo.. :(

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[955301]

Nope. A majority of the people who still believe that voiting in a two party system works are happy that Bush was re-elected.

The majority of the poeple in the US did not vote for Bush.

Personally, I think the Democratic party shoud disband and let the Republican party implode on itself.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[scottgfx]

Eh, Both of you just shut the hell up.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[sumdumass]

I wasn't aware that the morgan was still legal tender. In most cases though i think it is actualy worth more then the coin value so spending it like that would cause some questions.

I had a few of the morgans and eisenhower coins once, they walked away along with my favorite electric guitar. I guess they got married and went to jamaca or somethign they don't write and nobody has seen them since.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[955301]

I look forward to the day you say or do something stupid.

cheers

[d34thm0nk3y]

there is a scam that starts with the phrase, "You've made a small mistake, you gave me too much money" .

Ya, I saw that episode of Cheers too. Wasn't that the guy from Night Court or something?

Re:cheers

[The Ultimate Fartkno]

Yes. That was Harry Anderson, aka "Harry the Hat." He was a con-man in real life before he became an actor. (At least that's how I heard the story.)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[LnxAddct]

Ugh I can't stand coins... they are heavy, don't fold and clink and clang in your pocket whenver you walk. They are just not comfortable and people can always tell if you have alot of money on you or not. I'm not even that fond of cash anymore, is there anywhere really that doesn't except credit cards anymore? I haven't seen such a place in years, at least not in my city.
Regards,
Steve

DC

[Anonymous Coward]

I've had to explain the concept of "The District of Columbia" to several bureaucrats. You'd think that bureaucrats would perhaps pray towards DC as the center of the ultimate practice of bureaucracy, but a surprising number of them haven't heard of it.

"Where were you born?"

"Washington, DC."

"Washington? What city?"

"Not Washington State. Washington, DC. The District of Columbia. Where the White House is. I was born down the street from the White House."

"What state is that?"

"The District of Columbia isn't a state, but it counts for one as a place of birth. Just write down 'DC'."

"You weren't born in the US?"

And so on...

I lived for many years in Maryland, and had the same "MARY-land" experience. If I lived in a place named "Idaho" or "Utah", I'd think twice before making fun of the names of other places.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[dbIII]

What scares me (and surprises me a little, though less than it probably should)

It's a perfectly uber thing to happen in the homelands - and certainly not an only in America thing, irrational fear and overeactions are spreading. Democracy IS about questioning authority and checks and balances - here the law enforcement guy on the spot probably has to follow rules about avoiding checks and balances because alledged currency fraud is a "secret service" thing and not subject to professional law enforcement.

When you have weird laws that let you make people vanish and get taken away by the military (not allowed to contact anyone - even professional law enforcement) the attitude trickles down and due process doesn't look important anymore.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[scottgfx]

Why? The Dems are doing such a fantastic job of imploding, all by themselves. The GOP doesn't have to do anything.

Clinton did not get a majority of VOTERS in 1992. What is your point? You actually thought America was a democracy? It's a republic.

$2 bills

[dr00g911]

My family is from the Baltimore area originally, and I can tell you that up until the last time I was in the area (2002ish), $2 bills were still pretty commonplace.

One of the main reasons for that is that they're given out as winnings and change at horse races, which are very popular in that part of the country.

I used to get tons of them as a kid when my family would go to the track (my strategy at the age of 10: don't be greedy, look at the odds and bet to show on every single race. you won't end up rich, but you'll walk out with money for a couple new AD&D books).

Occasionally, I'll still get them in birthday cards from my relatives up that direction. Don't think I've *ever* gotten one as change down here in Florida, though.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[cyberformer]

And in this case, it wasn't just the person in the low-level retail job who was stupid. It was the store manager and then the cops.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[dbIII]

Police arrive to sort the matter out. Ink on the bills smears a bit. Suspicions of counterfit money result ... the whole situation could have been avoided by

Could be avoided by not printing US currency as green ink on toilet paper which has led to incredible amounts of couterfeit currency. It just shows a lack of forethought and not wishing to learn by the examples of others can have consequences for decades.

Re:Where are your rights?

[fishbowl]

"They try to trick me into admitting to a crime I didn't commit."

When in police custody, the only words that should come out of your mouth are your name, and the words "Am I free to go? I choose to remain silent. I would like to speak to an attorney now."

They will try all kinds of things to get you to talk after this, including putting handcuffs on you, searching through your backpack, putting you in the car, even taking you to jail. But if they try too hard it works in your favor.

From the first moment that you reasonably believe you are not free to walk away from a police officer, stop talking until you talk to a lawyer or a judge.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[AvitarX]

it wasn't that, it was that a few coins was worth more then an order of magnatude more then what I am used to.

I am not used to counting my coins as I throw them into tip jars.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Secrity]

The US mints produced dollar coins that weighed about 27 grams and were about 40 mm diameter off and on from 1794 until 1979. The Susan B. Anthony dollar "Suzie B", which is slightly larger than the US quarter, was introduced in 1979. The Sacagawea dollar "Golden Dollar", which was the same size and weight as the Susan B. Anthony, was put into circulation in 2000. The Sacagawea dollar is "golden" in color, the Susan B Anthony dollar is silver in color.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[JonToycrafter]

I doubt this is the case - having seen a whole bunch of false arrest claims successfully argued in my time, that a five figure claim is pushing it, and a four figure claim is more realistic.

Some folks who were falsely arrested in 2002 in DC, who were hogtied most of the night at the jail, got $400,000 for seven people before legal costs. Usually the figures are closer to $4000-5000, because folks would rather settle than see it dragged out four years.

Why did they threaten police action?

[Gary Destruction]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the matter was civil, not criminal. I would think at best, he'd face a civil suit where Best Buy would sue him for the money that he "owed".

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[MichaelSmith]

Why are $2 notes do rare in the USA? Are they being phased out? Or don't they distribute enough of them?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Zakabog]

That shouldn't of happened. Why would you ask the cashier to call the cops, the cops didn't issue the credit card and as far as the cashier was concerned you were breaking the law. A smarter idea would have been asking the cashier to call the credit card company, then the card company calls your mom, then your mom verifies that it's your car to use.

But then again, why was the card reported stolen when it wasn't?

Big Deal

[florescent_beige]

I once submitted a story about how the United States of America once, recently, sent a Canadian Citizen (Maher Arar) to Syria so he could be tortured. It was rejected.

Apparently this is more important.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[crazyeddie740]

Give us a break, we're still working on the freakin' metric system. It's essentially a bootstrap problem. Nobody is using the coins because nobody is really setup to take them, nobody takes them because nobody uses them.

Of course places *have* to take them, them being legal tender and all, but it's a pain in the ass because the cashier isn't going to be used to dealing with dollar coins, so they're going to be slow. Do the cash registers even have a dollar coin bin? Older vending machines won't take them, so you have to have bills around anyway. Newer vending machines do take them, but they also still take bills.

When there are enough new vending machines handing out dollar coins that everybody has them rattling around in their pockets, and the old vending machines have been taken out of the market, then dollar coins will be used. Until then, it's too much of a hastle.

Things that are traditional don't make sense - until you realize that they are that way *because* they are traditional.

Oh - and bills are cheaper to make. But coins are sturdier and stay in circulation longer, so they're cheaper in the long run.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[FunFactor100]

If the government owns the federal reserve...then does the government collect the profit the federal reserve makes?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[ockegheim]

That said, I hate dollar coins. I have enough change, I don't need more. Bills are easier to manage from a consumer standpoint.

That's what we thought in Australia in 1984 & 1988 (when one and two dollar coins were introduced). For about a week or so anyway. At some stage inflation will make a coin preferable to the lowest denomination bill. To my eyes seeing people in movies pay for something tiny with bills seems a bit strange.

Post 9/11 world

[NeuroManson]

"It's a sign that we're all a little nervous in the post-9/11 world."

Yeah, because we all know of the secret Al Qaeda tactic of turning up those thumping woofers and annoying the hell out of the neighbors.

Quick, somebody call the Department of Homeboy Security!

Re:Over the top reaction... "Show me your papers!!

[fishbowl]

"And the idiotic manager on down to the cashier should be FIRED!!!."

If he refused to accept legal tender for payment of a private debt, he should be required to forgive the debt.

If he made a false statement to a police officer that let to an innocent person being arrested and accused of a crime, he should be subject to charges of slnader, and of a misdemeanor charge of making false statements of a material fact to a police officer.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[oisteink]

Maby you have missunderstood the cent part? Cent = fractional (usually 1/100) and not the smallest denomination - wich is dollar. Or you could start making milli-dollars (1/1000) :P

Or you could start using euro-bucks, like all sane people :D

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[cHiphead]

i had the same thoughts but imploding on itself also leaves the largest nuclear arsenal in their hands, so it may end up more of a world ending 'explode' instead of 'implode' (you know, the kind when enough nukes explode in the same area simultaneously to throw the earth off-axis and suck the atmosphere right off it).

Cheers.

How many idiots did that take?

[LinuxLuver]

For him to end up in jail.....there would have been at least THREE stupid, ignorant people involved: the cashier, the floor supervisor at the store, the 'arresting" officer....and whoever else was involved.

Why its kept as legal tender...

[olddotter]

Basiclly I think this is done because the effect of doing it is that US currency now has the reputation of being as safe or safer than gold.

In the US when people are scared of market collapse they buy gold. But in many parts of the world people buy $$'s. In the long run this is good for the US (I think).

The dollor is the prefered assest of drug dealers, terrorists, and other organized crime. Although some are switching to the Euro because of the higher value Euro notes means you can store more money in a breif case!

Re:Why its kept as legal tender...

[olddotter]

Also for more info, read this link: http://www.ncpa.org/ba/ba280.html

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Simon Brooke]

Try paying more attention next time. Do. you know how to multiply by 1.6? It's not hard, pay attention to what your spending!

That's 1.88 in real money. Do keep up at the back,

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Magnus Reftel]

This is a good thing when your currency is a standard around the world, everyone recognizes it

Right. And here I was, thinking that this story was about a guy who got arrested because the cashier didn't recognize it...

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[dotgain]

It's the same in New Zealand.

Only our chicks are much hotter.

Like hell you say

[Syncdata]

A two dollar bill, regardless of how un/common, is still legal tender for all debts public and private. The Cashier/manager were utterly in the wrong to detain this man, and the police should have reviewed the situation, and released the man after obtaining his whereabouts.

I remember once, my father set off a security alarm after paying for a CD. The cashier had not de-activated the anti-theft device. All he had to say was "Are you placing me under arrest sir?"

Violent crime is one thing, citizens arrests are warrented in this situation, but ignorent employees are another matter entirely. The cashier/manager should be reprimanded, and the customer should be formally apologized to/compensated. They can't drop the charges, as this is a fed issue, so they've already screwed the pooch. Time for best buy to admit wrongful prosecution, and to pay the piper.

Law inforcement isn't in the wrong to the degree that best buy is.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[stevejsmith]

I live in Romania, and until July we'll still be using the old Romanian leu - that is, ~30,000 lei to the dollar, ~40,000 to the euro, etc. All of this inflation has made coins utterly useless (the only to moderately circulated denominations are 500 and 5000, both fairly useless in a country whose prices are slowly catching up to the EU's prices), and I must say that I prefer is to the American and European systems of coins galore. So much easier to handle. You can carry as much money on you as you want (although, actually, the bills are larger and more thick, for sure, as well as being hideously covered with some plastic-esque substance) and it's never too much for your waller (not to mention that no wallets in the US have coin holders, making it a pain in the ass to keep track of coins).

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[DaEMoN128]

believe it or not, you can land a quarter on the edge as well.

I was really bored one day while at work, so i started flipping a coin to see if I could controll how it landed, trying to land it on the heads side, it landed, rolled and came to a rest on its side, it wasnt a high flip, but the dishwasher i was working with had to take a break to get all of the waitress, the boss, the buss boy, and the owner to come get a look. I have had that happen twice to me, dont know how, and I wouldnt bet on it ever happening again.

(to make a long story short, it can happen)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jez9999]

I have plenty of Sacagawea dollars

You can trade them in at the bank for a REAL dollar! Huh? Huh???!

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[crazyeddie740]

Yep, Americans seem to be more traditional than Europeans. Maybe because our history is shorter, we value it more? Or because we didn't have to bootstrap ourselves out of feudalism into democracy? Feudalism didn't make the trip across the Pond, democracy developed by default. The American Revolution was just a war of independence, we didn't have to overthrow our gentry. We never had to make a break with the past. Things have changed since the days of the Founding Fathers, but it's been an evolution, not a revolution, with the possible exception of the Civil War. We've never had to learn to make a radical change in how we do things, only gradual changes.

We do have a style, but it's subdued. Missionary, not baroque. That monopoly money is too flashy, too much like a fad. Who wants their money to be a fad? Grandpa's money was good enough for him, and it's good enough for me! You can have my pennies when you pry them from my cold dead hand!

The Sacajawea actually seems to be having some success, IMO. The main reason is that vending machines are handing them out, but aren't handing out dollar bills. They also take them. Eventually, they might hit a saturation point, and people might start using them like dollar bills. It'll take a while though.

But I think the real reason that the Sacajawea is having more success than previous dollar coins is that they're gold. They're getting around American conservatism by appealing to an even older tradition. Our "racial memory" still remembers gold coins, and the Sacajawea appeals to that memory.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Baloo Ursidae]

I was wrong; now the vending machine industry wanted them to make the new coin exactly the same size and weight as the Susan B. to maintain "compatibility"! How stupid can they get? Now nobody uses the new one either.

You've never taken the MAX in Portland. I'll warn you right now, if you're smart, you won't put a $20 in the machine and buy anything worth less than a pair of 5-ticket strips, those things will only spit out $16.75 (maximum change the machine is stupidly designed to allow, which *will* shortchange you significantly if you pay for a single or double fare with a $20), and give coins exclusively as change (comprised largely of Sacajawea dollars if you use a $10 or $20 for anything). The ticket machines will take any denomination of US currency up to $20 (including the $2 as I disocovered trying on a whim), and all US coins that will fit in the slot save for pennies.

Because of sales tax for any items consumed in Washington is imposed on Oregonians (which are otherwise sales tax exempt with Oregon ID), many people living along the Washington border in Oregon use $2s as a substitute $1 in Washington to make up for the fact that our dollar is worth 6.5% less in Washington.

Post offices and automatic grocery checkouts frequently give Sacajawea or Anthony dollars instead of $1 bills.

Need to park your car in downtown? The parking permit machines take Visa, Mastercard, American Express and all US coins that will fit in the slot except pennies. But do they take cash? No.

The $1 bill is thoroughly obsolete in modern society, it's time to join Canada in the third millennium and ditch the paper $1 and bring back the $2.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[gzunk]

Strictly speaking Bank, Royal Bank and Clydesdale bank notes are not legal tender in Scotland either. They are just accepted as currency.

The only "legal tender" in Scotland is the £1 coin, however Scottish law says that you cannot reasonably refuse an offer to settle a debt, so the concept of legal tender is not really required.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[crazyeddie740]

Heh. I just remember a story about people in pre-WWII Germany using 100-Deutsh Mark bills for wallpaper because they were really big. Inflation was so bad that they were cheaper than wallpaper.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Bios_Hakr]

I tend to agree. The police are not allowed to make a determination of who is right or wrong. They just collect evidince and arrest suspects.

The right to actually dismiss charges is retained by the accuser and/or the prosicuter.

It's no wonder that people aren't arrested every day for stupid shit. Imagine that your neghbor pisses you off. Call the cops and say that someone with his license plates ran over your garbage can.

On second thought, the penalties for filing a false clain are pretty high. I hope BB gets fucked on this one.

Just one possible comment.

[jotaeleemeese]

Cheap bastard.

McDonald cashiers are not any different either

[unclocked]

I once ran a bill of 6.50$ at McDonalds. I had a 10$ note and some change, so gave the cashier 11.50$ and asked her to give me 5$ bill in return. She was bamboozled, and refused to entertain my request.
She just took 10$, and gave me 4.50$, and repriminded me not to try to fool her again since she had a computer to assist. Go, figure!

Re:McDonald cashiers are not any different either

[LuckyStarr]

Sad. This should work everytime without having to ask specifically for it! Everybody should have learned this much math in school.

Re:McDonald cashiers are not any different either

[Barbarian]

So, she overchanged you by $1 anyways?

Re:McDonald cashiers are not any different either

[tuxedobob]

I know it's popular to take a dig at McDonald's, but to be fair, the smart people don't always want to work in fast food. You may have come across a particularly stupid cashier, at which point, see if you can catch her in a quick change scam. If you can, alert the manager.

Re:McDonald cashiers are not any different either

[Inthewire]

Wow, you made a buck!

10.00 - 6.50 = 3.50

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Triskele]

Do you have a reference for that?

In Britain we don't have the felony/misdemeanour distinction that you have in the USA. And you'd have to go back before the founding of the USA to find an era when execution was anything like that universal a punishment. Sounds apocryphal to me...

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[tricorn]

I haven't even seen a Sacajawea coin since the first week they were released and a couple stores were handing them out as change. I still have that one, somewhere, but I dropped it and haven't seen it for a while.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Bios_Hakr]

In Japan, the cashieer has a magnet and a metal plate on the side of the register. Your money goes on the metal plate then is held by a magnet untill the transaction is complete.

US stores could prevent a lot of stupid problems by doing this.

Nope.

[jotaeleemeese]

Because I am not a cheap bastard....

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jez9999]

Is there somewhere I can buy beer for a moose, or a chicken?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[DrXym]

Euro coins aren't too hard to feel out of your pocket either. In fact I regularly reach in and grab a bunch have the 2 EUR coins almost naturally sort themselves at one end.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Motherfucking Shit]

Here's something I'm wondering about - what does the Secret Service have to do with counterfeit bills, anyway?

The initial charter of the USSS was to protect the nation's currency and put counterfeiters out of business, so to speak.

The whole "protecting the president" assignment came decades later, and while it's the task they're currently best known for, a large part of their work still goes towards the original goal. The Secret Service has field offices in all major US cities and many locales overseas, and when you consider that the president can only be in one place at a time (and is not constantly being threatened in all the other places where USSS has a presence), it becomes evident that most of the manpower is spent doing other things.

Among those other things, they assist with certain fraud investigations, especially mail fraud. When I worked in a retail postal facility, we'd get calls from USSS almost as often as USPIS. More recently, they've been called upon by various agencies to help investigate computer-related crimes, financial ones in particular. For example, they have an office specifically dedicated to investigating "419" scams (those emails you get from Prince Mambuto's widow in Nigeria who wants to transfer ONE HUNDRED MILLION DOLLARS to your bank account) - next time you get one, forward it to 419.fcd(at)usss.treas.gov with a quick note that you didn't lose any money.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Spruitje]

The smallest paper note we have now is £5, which is about $9.50


With the introduction of the euro the smallest banknote is 5.
Under 5 you have the 2 and 1 coin.
There is a very strange thing with the euro notes.
5, 10, 20 and 50 are common, but i haven't seen any 100, 200 and 500 notes yet.
Most shops won't accept notes bigger than 50.
But on the other hand, why pay something above 10 with cash if you can pay with a bank card and pin?

Bollocks.

[jotaeleemeese]

They do so because they have lousy policing techniques.

Two policemen can have full control of a situation with only one suspect if they are properly trained.

Handcuffing is the lazy alternative preferred by the ignorant and the armies of dictators.

Re:They do that because of counterfeiting.

[91degrees]

harder to recognize as counterfeit (not being handled very often by your typical cashier).

The counter to this is that they're more likely to be closely inspected.

Apparently the most commonly forged British note is the 20 pound note, since it is large enough to be worth the effort, but not so uncommon as to be treated as unusual.

By this logic, the most commonly forged US currency should be the equal value $36 bill;)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[slavemowgli]

Thanks - that was quite informative. (Pity I don't have mod points, but then, considering I already posted in this discussion, I couldn't mod you up anyways).

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[CGP314]

I guess you haven't checked the exchange rate for the dollar since around the time Bush came into office have you?


-Colin

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[bugmonkey]

The smallest paper note we have now is £5, which is about $9.50 Unless you are in Scotland of course, where we still have £1 notes, although they are, like all Scottish bank notes not technically legal tender.

Re:Using cash in the USA?

[CoolSilver]

I'm sorry but you seem to be the one exhibiting what one would describe as "asshole-like" behavior

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[sniperu]

They ARE made of plastic . Ugly , but much better than paper .

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[BlueJay465]

Even so, it's not a big loss for McD's as a company to pay for an extra hour of the manager's time. Hell, you are probably doing the manager a favor, if he is hourly. Those chumps are barely getting paid above minimum wage as it is.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[oberondarksoul]

Actually, the 20p coin wasn't introduced until 1982, and the £1 coin replaced the £1 note in 1984-86.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Hektor_Troy]

Waking up alone the next morning

Well, for an 80 dollar tip, I'd expect the bartender to at least have stayed around as well.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[bugmonkey]

I live in America, but I recently visited a friend in the UK. I was surprised at first, when I realized that there was not a £1 bill. After using the currency for just a day, though, I saw the benefit to the system. Coins are much more durable than bills, and the £1 coin is a hefty thing that's almost fun to carry. We do have a £1 note, just not in England, Wales or NI :D There's also a £5 coin which is made every now and then for special occasions, but it's HUGE and no-one ever uses them, it's probably the same sort of idea as the $2 note.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[masklinn]

I've seen 100 notes

I've never seen 200 or 500 notes, but one can undestand that, 500 notes are just plain and simply scary

And good ol' bank card/pin combo is there for a reason

What i like with euros is that they look really nice, quite close to the "old new" franc notes (50, 100, 200 and 500FF) (colors, holograms, transparency built images with parts on both sides of the note)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Sancho]

I worked in a small-town movie rental store where we had the owner, one manager, and the slave labor. The slave labor that counted out money was based solely on seniority.

The policy was $5 over or under and we had to call the manager at home (at 11pm) to come re-count. Neither employee could leave until this was done, and the manager was not known for being speedy.

Most of the time, for significant overages or underages, the counter would just pocket the money or pay out of pocket to avoid calling the manager. There were lots and lots of $4.90-$4.99 miscounts, which led to the manager making a sting. He intentionally put far too much money in the till at the beginning of the day just to catch the counter in the act. From then on, there were spot-stings, so even if we counted out at $5.01 over or under, we called him.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[xander2032]

I agree! We should definitely dump the penny. I don't know about the nickle? That would be adding quite a bit to the cost of an item. But having to pay an extra two or three cents is nothing. I mean, what is a penny worth anyways? I just store mine. I'm too lazy to do anything with them! lol

Really they're just annoying. I hate getting pennies back as change.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[masklinn]

Coins are more expensive to make (both in material and actual money), are bulkier (this more difficult/expensive to ship) and heavy. So no, paper currency isn't likely to go anywhere.

But you feel much much richer with a pocket full of coins than with a pocket full of bills

From now on

[deadgoon42]

When I shop at Best Buy, I'm only going to use $3 Santa Clause bills.

Re:Wrong (Grammar nazi)

[NewStarRising]

...we especially could care less about rebates ...

So you do care more? You care about rebates.

Could care less==do care more.

do not care== could NOT care less.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Sancho]

Answers

In a nutshell:
The $2 is rare, so many people save them. This increases the rarity. The initial reason they are rare appears to have to do with the bills being unpopular, although there is no known reason for why this is.

My guess is that it's an odd denomination. The $1 makes sense because it's atomic (at least, as far as dollars go--of course you can divide them into cents). $5 is good because it accounts for several $1 bills, in essense saving space in your wallet. The rest of the bills follow this pattern, each one saving more space when compared to ones (though obviously less space when compared to the next lowest denomination). But what does a $2 bill save you? It's half the space in your wallet, true, but it just doesn't compare to the $5, $10, $20.. jumping up in the denominations just seems to make more sense (though the $20->$50 jump is certainly strange).

Interestingly, for a long time, race tracks had minimum bets of $2. This made $2 bills popular in those areas because they made for easy bets. This might also account for the $1 bill's popularity in modern times, where, despite 10-10-220's assertions to the contrary, you can get something for "a buck". Many US fast food restaurants have "dollar" menus (although they tend to be more like $1.08 menus--and $1.08 would be awful for a bill denomination).

In reality, what does it matter? I like $2s because of their rarity and scarcity, and because I tend to get odd looks when I spend them. I've never been turned down, but I have seen people ask for confirmation by other employees/managers.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[permaculture]

If you like our £1 coins, you'll love our £2 coins.

Here's one that's been disassembled
http://205.243.100.155/frames/thumbs/2Pound_6300J2 a.jpg

As you can see, it has a silver centre and a golden outer ring. It weighs 12grams, about the weight of 2 x £1 coins, and measures about 2mm thick by 28mm diameter.

Chunky! :)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[asystole]

The UK did have the felony / misdemeanour disdinction until the Criminal Law Act 1967 which changed alot of things...

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[LMariachi]

Yeah, the 70s were pretty awesome. I was just a kid, but I could tell.

Re: US bills all the same size

[Anonymous Coward]

Sigh.

Not everyone can see the bills. If you are blind, having the values printed on bills the same size is of little use.

Some currencies have braille-like raised marks on the bills to aid blind and partially sighted people, but simply having different sized bills for each denomination helps.

As a matter of interest, if having all the bills the same size is such a good idea, why aren't all coins the same size as well?

Note that some people in this discussion have complained that Susan B Anthony dollars and quarters are too similar.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[thogard]

So police protocol is wrong. Its their job to figure out if people are a risk. This time they will pay which means the tax payers will pay. In my book, this means at least one cop should be out of a job.

The cashier was an idiot since new bills will run when your run the marking pens over them and since they were in order, they were uncirculated bills.

The cop should been fired. He should sue and win because the brought out the hand cuffs. If I'm on the jury, I'm going to award as much as I can. The cops push their authority and they had a better choice. If their rules don't allow it, bankrupt the entire department and start over.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Guppy06]

"I really dig that blonde chick at the store"

God forbid you ask her out...

What? I'm sorry ... what?!

[SpooForBrains]

But no. Now that Osama bin Laden showed the way, everyone has to imitate violent extremist fundamentalist Arabs now, don't they? Treat everyone else with hostility.

I'm sorry, what? Believe me, you can't blame the Arabs for this one. This sort of bloody minded attitude has been prevalent in the US, and indeed the UK, or anywhere else, for ... well, ever, really. Ever since the first caveman said the second caveman couldn't pay for that wildebeast with his cavewoman because she wasn't hairy enough. The only difference is that "in a post-9/11 world" (there's that meme again) everyone can use the fact that it's a "post-9/11 world" as an excuse.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[igb]

There was a huge fuss when the pound coin was
introduced (and the pound note withdrawn: that
was the US mistake, to introduce a coin and
_not_ withdraw the iconic note) because people said
it precisely _wasn't_ valuable looking. But since
then all the rest of the coinage has been reduced
in size (5p, 10p, 50p: sadly, all the old shillings
and two shillings, which were worth 5p and 10p so
the original 5p and 10p pieces were made that size)
so the pound sticks out more. The two pound coin
is lovely, though. But the 1 Euro piece is the
nicest.

ian

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[rpjs]

It's getting pretty common for cash registers in the UL to have a little slot above the cash tray for the cashier to hold your banknote in until they've given you your change.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[teslar]

I much prefer the Pounds of the Euros though (and no, I'm not British).

British coins come in 4 different shapes: coppers (1 and 2 p), silvers (5 and 10p), edged (20 and 50p) and chunky (£1 and £2). Each shape is has a small and a large version (for the lower and the higher value respectively) and the difference in size is substantial. Thus it's unbelievable easy to tell with a single glance in your wallet roughly what change you have.

In the Euro's case on the other hand, sure the 2 Euro coin does stick out, as does the 1 Euro one... but apart from that all you see is a golden mess interspersed with random coppers. Especially the coppers are extremely annoying and hard to tell apart (so yes, I'm not Finnish either).

The British coins simply have a great design and considering that they were around well before the Euro, it makes you wonder why we didn't pick up on that....

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Max von H.]

5, 10, 20 and 50 are common, but i haven't seen any 100, 200 and 500 notes yet.
Most shops won't accept notes bigger than 50.

Most 100 notes are fakes, that's the problem. Even the cash machines don't issue them anymore. That's why they're introducing RFID chips in the notes (and why I microwave my notes). Counterfeit euros are very common unfortunately, probably due to the fact the printing plates got stolen from a European Central Bank facility a few months before the currency became legal tender.

OTOH, try to pay anything with a $100 note and you'll run into the same problem!

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Alioth]

Actually - it's only the 1 and 2p coins (i.e. the most bloody useless ones now that vending machines no longer take them, which was the method by which I used to get rid of all my shrapnel) that haven't changed.

Now I save up all the copper shrapnel for the poor sandwich lady at work!

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[permaculture]

A drug dealer once showed me you can check a bill with a sheet of plain paper. If you rub the bill on the paper some of the ink from the bill will be left on the paper.

She told me this is because the ink on the notes never really completely dries. I just checked, and it still works with UK bills.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[rpjs]

No, our £5 coins are all commemerative, small-scale issues, and have never been minted in mass quantities. The Royal Mint was considering a mass-circulation £5 coin a few years ago but decided to wait and see if we'd join the Euro instead.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[rpjs]

Um, no. "Dollar" comes from "thaler", short for "joachimsthaler", a valley in medieval Germany where cold was mined and high-quality coins were minted.

Old joke.

[Anonymous Coward]

Reminds me of an old joke in the Netherlands, before the introduction of the Euro.

Two underworld figures meet on the street. One of them looks exceptionally wealthy, good clothes, nice watch, the show. The other asks: "How do you do that ?"

The first one tells him: I print money.

But that's illegal !

Well, I print 18 guilder notes.

What can you do with 18 guilder notes ?

Well, change them for something else - try it, you'll agree.

Second person goes off with some 18 guilder notes and enters the first store he comes across.

"I want to change some money" - and shows the 18 guilder note.

Cashier: That's OK - do you want 2 of 9 or 3 of 6 ?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[tacocat]

When the US finally finishes the English to Metric conversion that they started in December of 1975 we'll be using hectocents. I already use kilobucks where appropriate

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[rpjs]

What if you're partially sighted or even blind?

Having distinctive colours makes it easy for partially-sighted people to distinguish them. Having them different sizes helps blind people to distinguish them.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[wolfdvh]

That's because they're shaped almost exactly like quarters.

I don't see why that matters, the paper money in the U.S of A. is exactly the same size for all values. I don't hear of people constantly confusing ones for tems or hundreds. The problem is people use a crude pattern match on coins but actually look at the paper. Sometimes down to the watermarks and printer threads.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[DonnieD701]

I knew a few strippers in the 80's around Clark AB, Phillipines, that just loved coins. They'd stack them up on a bottle, insert them, then make a game out of counting change with their very trained and talented muscles for the crowd. If they counted your change correctly, they kept your money (and your change). If they were off by a single Piso, you kept your money and your change. They hardly ever missed! What Pu&&y control! (Sorry ladies, I couldn't help but relive the old days....)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[stevejsmith]

Cred ca sunt banii cei mai urati din lume. Chiar dolarii americani sunt mici, cel putin! Ai vazut banii noi? Cred ca o sa fie in circulatie iulie, dar nimeni nu-i a vazut!

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Triskele]

I stand corrected - thanks.

It's not just money

[Mikito]

I couldn't believe that I, a mere foreigner, seemed to know more about the local currency than the locals

I've met a few non-native English speakers whose command of the language was nonetheless better than that of some native English speakers.

Re:Um dear /. crowd

[dbIII]

we can't make fun of you for sleeping through high-school economics.

In a lot of places if you had any sort of mathematical ability or reasonable marks in science subjects you didn't even do high-school economics.

If you know algebra you only have to remember one version of the compound intrest formula, not one version for every variable by rote.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jedrek]

Aren't you considering denomination? Over here in Poland, we were in a similar situation at the begining of the 90s - the zloty (PLZ) was trading at 35,000 to the US dollar; 20,000 to the deutschmark. We denominated at 10000:1, now the dollar is down to about 3.10 new zloty (PLN), the Euro is at around 4.10PLN. It's nice to be able to use coins again, but I regret not being a millionare anymore (100PLN = 1 million PLZ).

The Woz and $2 bills

[Anonymous Coward]

I find it apprpriate to quote the Woz, from http://www.woz.org/letters/general/78.html

About 3 years ago I took my daughter, Sara, to Las Vegas for a gymnastics regional that she was in. During the lengthy warmups my wife and I walked down to the Hard Rock Casino and played slot machines. While generously feeding these machines I tipped the waitress a couple of $2 bills. Waitresses in casinos and other places often exclaim at how much they like getting these and how their kids love them. I have tons of $2 bill stories that will make a whole chapter in my book someday. My $2 bills are real and legit but unusual.

A short while later a casino security manager sat down next to me. He was very quiet and showed no emotion about anything. He was 30-ish and acted like a dedicated security man who knew everything about every type of cash situation ever. This man asked me where I'd gotten the bills and I started a little BS about buying them from a guy that hawked basketball tickets. I sometimes say this to peak the interest in people that wonder if these bills are real or not. I said that I thought the bills were good and acted like I didn't know what was going on, just enough to seem evasive. This man told me that they had tested the bills with their testing pen and that the bills were good.

Then he calmly said that they don't make them like this. I sat for a long time silent and he repeated his statement. I said "you mean, on sheets?" These two $2 bills were attached to each other and perforated. You can purchase $1, $2, and now $5 bills from the Bureau of Printing and Engraving on sheets. The sheets come in sizes of 4, 16, and 32 bills each. I buy such sheets of $2 bills. I carry large sheets, folded in my pocket, and sometimes pull out scissors and cut a few off to pay for something in a store. It's just for comedy, as the $2 bills cost nearly $3 each when purchased on sheets. They cost even more at coin stores.

I take the sheets of 4 bills and have a printer, located through friends, gum them into pads, like stationery pads. The printer then perforates them between the bills, so that I can tear a bill or two away. The bills that I'd tipped the waitress came from such a pad.

Well, the casino security guy kept rubbing the perforation between the two bills but he still showed no emotion at all. He was strictly professional. When he said that they don't make bills like this I asked "They don't?" as though I thought it was quite normal to have sheets. My answer was also so emotionless as to confuse him about me, and to make me seem even more evasive. This, again, I do for a comedic effect. The gentleman then said "they don't make them with perforations." I again asked "they don't"", acting a little like maybe I got ripped off by the person that sold them to me. The security guy kept rubbing the perforation slowly.

Every currency bill has to have a different serial number. We all know that. But for the bills on a sheet, the serial number ends with the last digits the same, and the starting digits the same. It's harder to detect that an inner digit is changing when you look at the serial numbers on a sheet of bills.

So I next said to the casino security guy "you'd think that the serial numbers would be sequential." I normally say "the serial numbers are all the same" but I knew that he'd catch this falsehood more quickly than most people that I use it on. I also sensed a serious tone, based on his attitude, and didn't want to lie outright. Well, this emotionless guy looked slowly down at the two bills and his jaw jerked open. Even his head stayed still and no other signs of emotion showed, but his jaw jerked. I'm sure that he thought for an instant that he had captured Al Capone, counterfeiting $2 bills.

He remained motionless and expressionless for a few seconds and obviously must have discovered that the serial numbers changed in the middle. He calmly raised his head and acted as though nothing had happened, a

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[owlstead]

After having used Dutch "guilders" for a life-time and euro's for some time now, you can pretty well conclude that pounds (and the former Irish pounds) are _way_ too big. I think that the average Dubliner has lost about 1kg per person after they went with the euro's. Probably more due to inflation.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[|<amikaze]

No, because strippers don't like coins.

Funny you say that. I was at a strip club in Calgary and they actually made up a really neat game with coins. Basically, after the show, the strippers would stick "prizes" to her and then if you could knock it off with a loonie or a twonie, you got to keep it. Plus, if you got it, she's come around afterwards and give you an autographed poster and stuff.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[M1FCJ]

I have huge jars full of 1 and 2p coins. Some are older than me and I am 31 this year. It's just plain stupidity because you can't buy almost anything for less than 20p. At least even when they fill a couple of jars they don't worth more than a tenner so there is absolutely no point keeping them. I use them as paperweights.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jedrek]

From what I understand supplies of 200 and 500 notes are limited to keep them from being used in money laundering (and tax evasion). I don't think I have any euro notes > 50, but then it's probably because I take out 100 euro when I go to the ATM - and most ATMs in euroland will give you change (2 5s, 2 10s, 1 20 and 1 50).

Try with cents.....

[cowboy76Spain]

A relative of mine worked for a short time in the Tax Administration. One day, they received a man who had been imposed a fine come with several backpacks of euro cents, to pay the fine. AFAIK, the man did go away without waiting for the recount of the money (and now that I think about it, I wonder if he did get a receipt at all).

The funny thing is that his appeal against the fine had been won (but he did not know it yet) so they called him to take back their bagpacks (and he could count the money if he did not trust them!). Also, after being the main actor of that show in the maix Tax Office of the zone, (even the regional director came to the desk to know what was happening) I am pretty sure that all his fiscal life has been thoroughly scanned and, if he had something to hide, the Tax inspectors have found it.

1cent notes in Hong Kong

[thephydes]

I wonder how Hong Kong retailers respond to fists full of 1 cent notes - yes they do exist and I have a few.

Re:1cent notes in Hong Kong

[Heian-794]

They probably take them off to stamp and coin shops and get a nice profit for them -- 1c notes are quite old, aren't they? And governments could avoid such problems if they did a better job of preventing inflation and keeping their currency's value stable! How about bringing back the silver standard? Fiat money, my hind foot!

Re:1cent notes in Hong Kong

[Giggle Stick]

How many feet do you have? I just have the front two here.

This is ummmm.... funny?

Slashdot requires you to wait 20 seconds between hitting 'reply' and submitting a comment. It's been 19 seconds since you hit 'reply'. 1 mississippi... 2 mississippi...

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Anonymous Coward]

a valley in medieval Germany where cold was mined

Sounds more like medieval Iceland...

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[mvdwege]

Most shops won't accept [Euro] notes bigger than 50.

There is a reason for that: forgery. The ECB went for the security-through-obscurity route when forgery-proofing their bills. There are over 20 characteristics that distinguish a real Euro note from a fake one, unfortunately the banks only saw fit to disclose half of them, leading to the situtation that currently only banks can distinguish fake from real.

Of course, shopkeepers can't do so, but since the bank won't accept forged notes that businesses accepted in good faith, they end up being liable for the damage. Therefore shops decided en masse to no longer accept large denominations. The way things are going, the EUR 50 note will have to be redesigned, or it will end up being on the black list too.

Of course, the ECB could just publish all anti-forgery characteristics. But then, the argument goes, the forgers have it easier. Funny that the Dutch didn't seem to have that problem. As far as I know the central bank always published all details, confident that the measures were good enough to stop forgeries, and making it easy on businesses to detect the occasional ones. This suggests strongly that the anti-forgery measures on the Euro bills are just plain not good enough.

Mart

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Amorpheus_MMS]

Not to mention we just take a glance at our cash and can use color and size [i]as well[/i] to pick out the right one(s). Don't need to flip through to see the numbers.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, I stopped doing bank deposits when I found out I wouldn't get exactly the same bills back.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[xSauronx]

whenever my aunts father-in-law visits her and her husband, he leaves them a roll of fresh $2 bills. she gives them out as birthday presents during the year. ive still got the last 3 or 4 she gave me, people keep looking at you weird or hassling you....its really annoying to get hassled over perfectly legal currency. however, most places would take a $2 bill faster then they would that ridiculous $1 coin...i often wonder if people really arent familiar with the $1 coin, or if they just hate it.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[houghi]

Seriously 2/3rds of physical american currency is overseas and therefore difficult to replace. (Not to mention an excellent way to create a loan the government never has to pay back.

All the more reasson to replace it. That is pure profit for the US. During the change to the Euro, all money that was not exchanged was now profit for those countries. That goes for large amounts of monety that were burned in houses and even more for coins that rolled in to the gutter or taken as souvenirs by tourists.

In Belgium notes from 100BEF will be exchangable at the Natinal Bank for an unlimited time, no matter how old they are. You will get your money back that they are worth as face value. They still are however not legal tender.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[MysteriousPreacher]

The only way I was able to see a 100 or 200 note was to visit a bank and ask for one.

I suppose I'm used to the 5, 10, 20 and 50 notes, but the 100 and 200 notes really do look like Monopoly money.

Personally I'd rather not have anything over a 50 since it'd be nasty if my 200 Euro note turned out to be a fake.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[stevejsmith]

Yes, in July the currency is being denominated in the exact same way that the zloty was (from ~30,000 ROL to the USD to ~3 RON to the USD), although it's more just a temporary measure to make the country's economy look more attractive to investors -Romania is almost definitely going to join the EU in 2007, and a few years later (2011 is the date that people throw around) we'll move to the euro.

I think a denomination of 1000:1 would have made more sense, though -it would confuse less people (people already don't bother saying "thousand" and a lot of fancy restaurants/stores leave out the last three zeros), and it's not going to be our currency for very long, anyway. Although I guess 3 lei looks a lot nicer to foreigners than 30 lei.

Fiat money is actually good.

[ccmay]

It's called "fiat" money--worth $2 because the government says so.

It's more complicated than that. It's true that paper money has no inherent industrial or esthetic value like gold. But the flip side, a benefit that hard-money advocates overlook, is that governments also expect to be paid taxes and tariffs in paper money, rather than gold or bushels of wheat or direct involuntary servitude.

When you use paper money, instead of being able to redeem it for gold, you are accepting that you can redeem it for a tiny fraction of the government's sovereign taxing power. As a taxpayer, you are, in effect, telling the postman and the welfare mother and the defense contractor that you and your fellow citizens will compensate them with bits of paper instead of hard commodities.

Any government has the inherent power to skim off a fraction of the value of the goods and services produced or sold within its borders. Some do it more efficiently and fairly than others. That's what paper money represents, and if it is skilfully managed (as we seem to have been doing in recent decades), it can actually be a more stable and reliable medium of exchange than gold or silver based currency. Sensible governments will control the amount of fiat currency in circulation, so that year in and year out, the intrinsic value of the taxes and tariffs it collects in paper money is roughly equal to the value of the goods and services it buys with that paper money.

Commodity-based currencies can gain or lose value based on factors other than their inherent utility. Discovery of a new source of gold, or a new industrial process that makes it easier to mine, will result in inflation every bit as dire as a tyrant running his country's printing presses 24/7. This is what happened to Spain after the discovery of the New World and its huge influx of golden treasure. The "price" in gold of other goods and services became distorted in a way that would not have happened with a fiat currency. The converse is also true; if the gold mines run dry, or cannot keep pace with improved productivity in other economic sectors, then countries with gold-backed currency will experience a destabilizing deflation that significantly harms farmers and other debtors. This is what the famous "Cross of Gold" speech by Willam Jennings Bryan was all about.

Whether or not fiat currency is better than hard currency depends most strongly on the strength and stability of the government, and on the wisdom of those it puts in charge of its fiat currency. In Western industrial democracies, it is quite safe, and leads to efficiencies that raise everyone's standard of living. The Federal Reserve, Bank of England, etc., are doing a good job at this. People in Third World countries recognize this by hoarding dollars and euros and pounds as if they truly were hard currency. If we want to stay prosperous, we will watch our government leaders like hawks to make sure they don't game the system and give us Zimbabwe-style kleptocracy and inflation.

Owning a little gold or land is a reasonable hedge against this, but the gold bugs should recognize that a Robert Mugabe who would fiddle with fiat currency would also be quite quite willing to send men with guns to take your gold or land away from you by force. Prudent, stable democratic government and modestly regulated free-market capitalism are the surest guarantors of a nation's prosperity.

Bottom line, the inherent value of a piece of paper money is its ability to make gun-toting tax collectors go away if you give it to them. History proves that this is indeed a valuable "commodity".

-ccm

Re:Fiat money is actually good.

[Giggle Stick]

... but the gold bugs should recognize that a Robert Mugabe who would fiddle with fiat currency would also be quite quite willing to send men with guns to take your gold or land away from you by force. Prudent, stable democratic government and modestly regulated free-market capitalism are the surest guarantors of a nation's prosperity.

Some would say that protections like the US Second Amendment are the only true gaurantor, or at least of property. I'm just saying this, cause really there is no gaurantee at all, is there. Someone may offer their gaurantee, but what is it worth. I guess you covered that with the "stable" bit, but I don't know if there ever will be a completely stable government. We're just barely holding entropy at bay with a little spike of order here, I believe at times.

Re:Fiat money is actually good.

[happymedium]

Wow! I confer upon this post an honorary +6 Uber-Informative. Thanks. ccm. BTW, I wasn't saying fiat is a bad thing, I was pretty much just bashing an AC for fun. Still, the economics lesson was greatly appreciated. ^_^

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Zemran]

Almost right :) You missed the bit that not even English or Ulster etc. are 'legal tender' in Scotland as there is no legal tender.

http://www.scotbanks.org.uk/notes.htm

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[MysteriousPreacher]

Maybe you could introduce a 10 dollar note?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[xSauronx]

weve used green currency for years upon years...i dont think anyone hear would suddenly accept a pink, orange, or yellow $10 bill as real money. Hell, you dont know how many looks you get when you use our new 20's that have some color on them besides green. Were not used to it, so money that isnt green is usually associated with being play-money here.

Which is fine by me, i find alot of brightly colored bills to be hideous.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[MysteriousPreacher]

Shrapnel is usually just used to describe a pocket full of coins.

Alan: "You coming to the pub for a pint?"
Dave: "Nah mate, all I got is a pocket full of shrapnel."
Alan: "Come on, I've got plenty of bread"

One common slang term for a pound coin (at least where I come from), is 'a nugget', due to it's gold colouring.

The free publicity would have two effects.

[Futurepower(R)]

The free merchandise would get hundreds of thousands of dollars of free publicity. The free publicity would have two effects. First, it would get the message out to all Best Buy employees that there really are $2 bills. Second, it would give the impression that Best Buy top managers are caring people instead of socially backward adversarial lamers.

That, in turn, would make it easier to hire good employees, and easier to attract good customers. The cost of the merchandise, a wholesale cost, would look tiny by comparison.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[aussie_a]

Any marginally competent lawyer should be able to get him at least six figures from both the store, and the municipality where this occurred.

Wow, I know this was bad. But I don't know if it was that bad.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[xSauronx]

as i mentioned elsewhere, i dont think americans would accept pink bills that are 10% larger than our purple bills as being real money.

your country thinks our money is silly, and we think the same of yours when someone comes back from a vacation with money that looks like it came out of our childrens board games. We associate bright colors with fake money because for years and years thats been the case here. People didnt like the mild use of color on the new $20 that came out last year, it doesnt look like american money, its not all green...and after years upon years of having just green money, you get used to it.

And the $3

[realkiwi]

I have a whole pile of $3 that I guy gave me.

Do Best Buy accept those?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[aussie_a]

I know I did.

Then I realised Australia doesn't have any notes for anything less then $5 :(

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Myopic]

I don't know for sure, but I bet there is a law that keeps old coins legal tender. In fact, as an American, I can say I'd be pretty peeved if I had a bagful of cash and suddenly the government tried to tell me my cash wasn't money anymore. I'd even say that would be a violation of due process, since the government would be depriving me of property.

But y'all don't have the benefit of a (written) constitution.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[xSauronx]

because people didnt like them...and on rare occassions when the people of the united states complain the government actually listens.

Hostile activities encourage hostile activities.

[Futurepower(R)]

I've been trying to formulate theories about social interaction. I've noticed an interesting phenomenon: Hostile activities often encourage other hostile activities. That's certainly been happening in the U.S., where 9/11 encouraged those who want U.S. government corruption.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Momoru]

The worst part about high denomination coins in America is that people hoard them. I havn't seen a half dollar in years. And everytime they come up with a new "dollar coin" people save them and they are never seen. I only ever get dollar coins as change from subway machines.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[spuzzzzzzz]

I have a $1 and a $2 note.... unfortunately I think they've been officially discontinued and are no longer worth anything.

Homepage of Baltimore County Morons

[Ogman]

Here's the homepage for the moronic Baltimore County Government. Take the time to give them a call next week and express how proud they make you to be a "nervous" American! Baltimore County

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[pointguy]

Even better than that - a friend of mine, who lives in Washington, was visiting California a few years back and went into a bar and was carded. At the time WA still used printed & laminated cards while CA had switched over to newer cards where the info was actually printed onto a plastic card. The bartender insisted that his ID was fake and proceded to cut it up.

For a while in my teens my only ID was my US passport. One day I got arrested for shoplifting batteries at Safeway (I know, bad me). So the cops shows up, looks at my passport, and says: "How does it feel to know you're going home?" I was thrilled, said: "You mean you're not gonna arrest me?" And he goes: "Oh, I am. But then we're going to send you back to Mexico." Huh?

Since then, I am never surprised by human stupidity.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[datastalker]

Actually, the smallest denomination is the mill, which is 1/10th of a cent, but was never minted, as Congress never asked for any.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[nahdude812]

IMO the reason that the $1 coins fail is

1) they're harder to carry than $1 bills (they don't fit in a wallet, and that's a lot of money to be tossing in your coin jar every evening)
2) the $1 bills are still readily available. If the gov't stopped making $1 bills, guess what type of currency we'd all be using for $1 in the near future?
3) little old ladies would still insist on digging though their purse to fish out 75 $1 coins while a line builds up behind them at the super market, and those buggers would fall all the way to the bottom of her 98lb purse. Hence people like myself would decide that the $1 coin wasn't worth the hassle, and throw them into the ocean every chance we got. However, that could be good for the economy.

Wait, I think I know where this is going...

[vain gloria]

Another time at the same supermarket, my friend got carded. The cashier didn't recognize the out-of-state driver's license and got the manager, who examined it for a while before deciding: "MARY-land? No way." He'd never heard of the state of Maryland.

And thanks to the American Dream, that cashier now sits in the Oval Office itself.

"Oh, say, can you seeee..." :D

Re:Where are your rights?

[ramblin billy]

Dude...your problem isn't the police. Your problem is evil demons from the netherworld. Either get an exorcism or forget the whole thing. Alternately, you could ask yourself why people want to beat you up and kill you. Maybe God is punishing you for drunken dereliction of your Luthern duty. Just remember, the police have the ability to make your life miserable. Act accordingly (unless you are secretly taping - then: Profit!)

billy - Yes Officer, No Officer, How High Officer?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[psergiu]

Yeah, we (the romanians) had A LOT of currency changes

See Here

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[mitsuhama]

They should be still legal tender, but I'm probably wrong. They are more valuable for collectors. I also have some $1 and $2 notes around here I should see how much they are now days.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[woozlewuzzle]

I would think it actually came from the Greek deka, which means 10. Those damn latin's stole everything from the Greeks - or so my wife says.

Re:Is anyone else asking this?

[Anita Coney]

Cop using brain cells! Hilarious! Mod this up! Ironic satire at its best!

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jonadab]

Over a dime, they will generally only recount the drawer once. It is, after
all, just a dime. Now, if the drawer is over by several dollars, they will
do what you described, and the employee will go home with a sick feeling in
the pit of his poor little stomach.

OT: Your sig

[Tim C]

That's from American McGee's Alice, isn't it?

Re:OT: Your sig

[Ashe Tyrael]

Yup. As spoken by the Cheshire Cat.

"How fine you look when dressed in rage. Your enemies are lucky your condition is not permanent.
You're lucky, too. Red eyes suit so few."

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jonadab]

> I had to work a lot of retail jobs through all my degrees, and they are not
> a party to start with, without having to contend with behavior like that...

Recounting a drawer is not the kind of chore that makes a fast food job hard.

Granted, it's mean to cause somebody extra work on purpose, but tossing an extra dime in the drawer is minor compared with the people who deliberately smear stuff all over the mirrors and other fixtures in the bathroom (a semi-regular occurance when I worked at T. Bell), or the people who come in five minutes before close, sit near the door for forty minutes, and keep opening it for anyone who wants in until you want to throttle them, or the employees who hide from work by going in the back and finding things (e.g., trays hamburger buns) to poke holes in with a pencil (one hole per bun, right through the plastic bag and into the middle of the bun -- the manager was less than amused when we discovered that one in the morning).

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[mpcooke3]

It's also the best reason I can think of for Great Britain to stay out of the Euro.

Heh, yeah that, and we like having jobs.

Re:Where are your rights?

[KillerBob]

I say something a little rude (but justified) about the situation. The officer in the car proceeds to arrest me.

What, exactly, did you say?

Incidentally, it's well within their rights to arrest you if they have reason to believe that you are belligerent, a threat, or intoxicated. Was it something minor, like "you've got to be ******* kidding me", or "this is bullshit"? Was it something a little more aggressive, like directly insulting the arresting officer?

In either case, you brought it on yourself. You aren't going to get a lot of sympathy from me on that one, because as you've portrayed it, the police did not infringe on your rights at all. You didn't have to fight back, but you apparently chose to.

2: Police come onto my property to break up a party. The party is hidden from the street, obscured by 2 large buildings surrounding my yard. I am told that I am tresspassing (people are entering the yard from my house, through the only door that leads into the yard, the neighbors had no yards). We called the only good cop I knew and had the police called away.

3: The only good cop I knew gets fired.

So, you were having a party that was loud enough for the police to break it up? Just because it's hidden from the street does not make it legal. You should know that the police don't come to a party on the first noise complaint. It usually takes 5 or 6 before the police will actually go to the party, because they have a whole lot of stuff on their plate that's more important.

And then, to make matters worse, you called in a friend to circumvent the rules and get the police to leave you alone, and are even remotely surprised that this friend got fired for their actions?

I'm getting the feeling that there's something rather important to this story that you aren't telling us.

4: A kid gets severely beaten at a local party. I take him back to my place and call 911. I get patched through to the police, who refuse to come out and take care of the situation. This kid had all of his teeth broken, had a broken nose, and was bleeding pretty steadily. I feared for his life. It gets worse, while I'm on the phone with the police, I lose him! The police refuse to come out and look for him. After many phone calls, I find out that the kid had been brought to the hospital by some friends who saw him wandering the street.

What the hell are you doing calling the police when you think this kid's life is in danger from his injuries? I've called 911 about a dozen times (happens when you're a lifeguard), and every single time I've called that number, the first thing out of the operator's mouth is "911, Do you need Police, Ambulance, or Fire?" How the hell did you get routed to Police after that?

Furthermore, are you at all surprised that the police refused to come out and take care of the situation? The kid was injured badly enough that you think he's in danger of dying. Do some first aid, and get a friggin' ambulance. The police can't treat the injuries, and the more time you spend arguing with the police, the longer it's going to take before EMT's get there. Ever hear of the Golden Hour? Short version is that 60 minutes is how long you've got to get the kid to the hospital, or their chance of survival will drop significantly.

And in case it ever happens again, get the kid to the hospital, and worry about whether a law has been broken after the injuries have been treated.

4: I get a death threat. An officer comes out, listens to it, tells me its a prank. I said I thought not, and asked to have my phone calls traced for a few days. The officer refuses. I stay in a friends house for a few days.

That's because the police don't do that. If you were really worried about it, you could have used *69 to trace the call immediately after receiving the death threat. If that fails, record the time of the incident and call the phone company. Most importantly, rec

this is me, almost!

[oedneil]

Every time I walk into the bank on Friday to cash my paycheck, all the tellers yell "Neil, we have two dollar bill for you!"

They save them throughout the week and load me up at the end of the day. Last week I ended up with $70 in mint, sequential bills. I also grab whatever weird change (Susan B and Sasquatch gold dollars) they can give me, and use it to pay for everything. It pisses people at stores off, most cashiers don't even know what it is or refuse to accept it. We once had the cops called on us at a 7-11 for trying to pay in change. So weird.

Re:this is me, almost!

[oedneil]

I'm an illegal immigrant and get paid under the table, I take what they give me.

Actually, the tellers all speak English as a second language and don't often pluralize nouns correctly, but thank you for pointing out that I purposely left out the 's'.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[pommiekiwifruit]

IIRC The euro coins are the "leftover" sizes. All the good sizes were taken by 15 or so countries whose vending machines had to co-exist with the new coins. Maybe in a decade or so when national coins are less common they could resize all the euro coins to be sensible, like they did with the UK coins in the 1990s. The only thing that might improve the current UK set would be if the 2 cent coin had a hole in it, cos that would be cute.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[RedSteve]

I'm sure you felt much better when you realized that was only $2.38 US. ;-)

Any idea which one in specific?

[borgheron]

There are a bunch of "Best Buy" stores here in MD. It might be fun to organize a protest where everyone goes in a pays with $2 bills for everything for a whole day. :)

Later, GJC

Re:Any idea which one in specific?

[borgheron]

Good point. :/

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[electronerdz]

I didn't even need to hear this to want to say that. I can assure you, Best Buy DOES NOT have the best buys. This is plain stupid. I thought they taught currency in our school systems... somewhere back in first grade. But I guess I was wrong. And Best Buy is a joke. I think we should start a boycott. I went to Best Buy the other day after buying a TV with an HDMI interface. I wanted a cable to use my DVI card. $129. For a cable. This is absurd. And "Monster" cable is the ONLY brand of cable they have there. Anyway, I ended up buying it online for like $35, I just have to wait longer. And their "tech support help" there is a joke. I've gone and refixed many computers that have gone to Best Buy. Down with Best Buy.

No, there isn't..seriously.

[caveat]

It might be an apocryphal reason, but I do know (in CT at least), the WAIS (IQ test) is part of the application process to be a Statey - if you score too high, you're disqualified, supposedly because intelligent people don't do well as LEOs. Or maybe for other reasons, determination of which is left as an excercise for the reader.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jonadab]

> wouldn't it make more sense to replace low-denomination bills with coins?

There are good solid reasons why the $1 note is paper rather than coin. We actually have $1 coins, but they're only slightly more common in circulation than $2 bills. This is not because they don't mint enough of them -- they *do* mint them. But they don't circulate, because people treat them like collector's items. They sit in drawers. The average household probably has almost as many $1 coins as bills at any given time, but the bills are sitting in wallets and will be spent in a day or two; whereas, the $1 coins are stacked in cedar drawers next to the good silver, laying in the bottom of jewelry cabinets, and so forth. A lot of people try to collect a "silver dollar", as they are called, for every year since their birth (i.e., one minted in each of those years). I guess almost 10% of the population does that around here. (Other folks collect a penny for each year, but you can do that your whole life and it adds up to about a buck, so it doesn't take that much currency out of circulation -- and, there's no paper $0.01 note.)

So, *why* do the $1 coins not circulate? Because, we have $1 bills, that's why. The paper notes are significantly preferable to Americans, because they weigh less and take up less space. Most men will tolerate carrying around about eight coins in a pocket before telling someone to keep the change. Women will tolerate significantly more coinage, because they have coin purses, but they don't like dealing with them either -- they don't, as a rule, get the coins out to pay for things -- they grab the bills, which are easier to deal with, and the coins accumulate until they fill up the coin purse, at which point they get emptied into a jar or dish at home. (A lot of men empty their coins into a dish at the end of each day, too.)

When the jar or dish fills up, it goes to the bank to be counted by machine and turned into bills. There are people who pay with coins, but they are in the minority. Just about every retail establishment in the US gives out a *lot* more coins than they take in. When I worked at T. Bell, I typically broke open one extra roll of quarters per shift, plus usually an extra roll of dimes or nickels, and often an extra roll of pennies. (An "extra" roll, in this context, is one besides the full roll your drawer stared with.) This was in the evening, which is the slowest time for fast food, and Taco Bell operates with a lower overhead and significantly lower gross take than, say, McDonald's (although, their evenings aren't as much slower than their daytimes as is true at a burger joint).

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[pommiekiwifruit]

Just stopping in the USA for one hour at LAX between flights is a crime sufficient for them to fingerprint you these days (and take your photo).

Two-dollar Bill Day

[scaryjohn]

I propose that, since Thomas Jefferson is on the two-dollar bill, we should all make a point of getting a couple and using them on his birthday: next Wednesday, the 13th. The more these bills are circulated, the more people will recognize them; the less likely this will be to happen again.

His birthday is as good an occasion as any to make a modest effort, and it's close enough that we shouldn't forget by then.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Generic Guy]

Except that the only reason he was there in the first place was that Best Buy jacked him around on the installation fee. They had originally waived the fee, then called him the next day saying he better pay or they were going to have him arrested. In protest, he went and paid with $2 bills (which he uses in his touring business), and Best Buy couldn't cope. In fact, it was the store manager who shackled him down and called in the police.

Best Buy created the situation by being hostile with their own customer. Then they made it worse by continuing to be hostile with their customer.

People are so dumb

[smchris]

The idiot should have known better than to use $2 bills at a Best Buy. I've lived in Baltimore.

On that note, I miss old fashioned cash registers. You almost always got a discount with your change at a McDonalds in Baltimore.

Isn't it great living in a country with math rankings in the high 20s and literacy near 50th?

Re:Illiteracy rampant at /. - 'tards rule

[Megane]

Where do you think Best Buy gets its cashiers from?

Currency Info

[Otonotachibana]

I work in a bank and much to my surprise new US currency does smear, quite easily in fact. If you take a white piece of paper and rub a newly minted bill it will leave a green smudge. The bills will also smudge when you rub them together. They lose this quality over time as more of the ink rubs off.

Money from the federal reserve has sequential numbers so he probably had new bills.

Kind of sad that it had to go all the way to the secret service (who's original jurisdiction was just currency) because anybody with a decent knowledge of the way money is printed could have cleared the guy.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jonadab]

> Nobody is using the coins because nobody is really setup to take them

No, that's not the reason. (The other way around you have it right, though.)
Nobody uses the $.50 and $1 coins because we have $1 bills, which are smaller
and weigh less, and people prefer them. Haven't you noticed how many people
don't like dealing with lots of coins? A small handful of coins is okay,
but if you're carrying around six bucks, $1 bills are *way* easier to deal
with than $1 coins.

It's not that people dislike the $1 coins per se; they just dislike carrying
them *around*. They like to collect them and let them sit in drawers...

The *only* way to get people to circulate the $1 coins with real frequency
is to stop printing $1 bills, and people won't like it. They won't like it
at all. Believe me, you've never heard whining such as there would be.

$1 coins aren't a hassle because they're unusal. They're a hassle because
*coins* are a hassle, compared to bills. If we had $.25 bills, people would
use them.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jonadab]

> I wish I could remember the figure for how much the government would
> save if they would stop printing the dollar and just use the dollar coin.

Yeah, but for at least a decade they'd have to spend all that and more on propaganda campaigns to convince people to go along with it. People *hate* carrying around a lot of coins.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Jibber]

Funny, I can't think of a place that doesn't accept debit cards. Even Pizza delivery and taxi's accept them here.

Well, I guess the paper boy doesn't accept them but my paper is paied via automatic debit right out of my account.

I guess flea markets and farmers markets don't accept them either but I don't shop there much.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Ironsides]

Been there, done that. One place pissed me off so much, the next time I went there I payed with about 30 something of them. The stamp machine would give you change greater than $1 in susan b's. so i put in $30.15, bought the 15 cent stamp and walked away with the 30 susan b's for the place. (I had some fun with those).

The only reason you hate coins is ...

[gotan]

... because you're not prepared to handle them. Which is because most times you don't use them. Apparently you can afford to throw away the change, lucky you.

I live in Euro country, but i think the pricing here is not that different from the pricing in the US. I think it'd be too expensive to throw all the change i get for anything in the 0-5 Euro-Range.

Also coins are the most used currency here, there's a reason to use coins for that: they're much more durable. Also most people are prepared to handle coins, so it's not a problem of losing them out of pockets or the like.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[BardicStorm]

You think that's bad... I was in McDonalds one day and tried paying for my meal with one of the older $10 bills. The cashier actually called over two different managers to ask if it was real money.

Now, In order to work here in NY, you really have to be at least 16 (maybe 14 or 15 if they got school permission). That really means you've had to have seen thses bills before. Doesn't it?

Anyway, the managers, my friends, and I all had a good laugh over that one.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[General Melchett]

a tribute to both Columbus and the Sun readers who thought the world was flat

Dont readers of 'The Sun' still think that the earth is flat.....

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Tim C]

Back when paper money was first used in Britain, passing conterfeit money was a felony.

Of course, passing counterfeit money *is* still illegal in Britain...

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[ibm1130]

"Why the heck didn't the gov't just ignore the whiners and pull the $1 bill?"

Because here, every two years our elected representatives need to pay careful attention to what the electorate are saying. Its not like, oh say, Canada, where the Gummint can do something people hate just after an election and wait 5 years for things to blow over.

No, get rid of the coins....

[awfar]

clink, clink,,,,clink, clink,..... cl,,clink,...
electronic or bills, and I hate electronic...

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Micah]

Interesting.

Now, the obvious question: Why are they charging $35.50 for $25 worth of dollar coins? Something is Not Right(tm) about that...

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Tim C]

as an American, I can say I'd be pretty peeved if I had a bagful of cash and suddenly the government tried to tell me my cash wasn't money anymore.

This is not a sudden process. Notices are displayed in banks, newspapers, etc for months before and after any such change, which happens infrequently (a handful of times that I can remember in my 30 years of life).

I'd even say that would be a violation of due process, since the government would be depriving me of property.

How so? You're given plenty of warning, and even when the deadline passes and it ceases to be legal tender, you can still exchange it at a bank. I believe that the Bank of England is actually obliged to accept *any* coin or note that has *ever* been issued as legal tender in England and exchange it for current legal tender. That may or may not include ancient tender (such as Roman coins), but that's generally not an issue with such items...

But y'all don't have the benefit of a (written) constitution.

I fail to see why one is needed in this situation.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Micah]

The reason people "didn't like them" is because they were never in circulation enough for the people to get used to them and realize the advantages. If they had simply pulled the $1 bill and increased mintage of the coins, the whiners would have shut up within a year.

Now, if we could just get them to listen to the people on the issue of the DMCA and software patents... :(

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jonadab]

> The Sacajawea actually seems to be having some success, IMO.

Yeah, I'm sure that's why I had no idea what you were talking about until you said...

> But I think the real reason that the Sacajawea is having more success
> than previous dollar coins is that they're gold.

Gold? Oh, you mean those bronze $1 coins? I think I've seen three of them so far, spaced months apart. Some success. (If you meant that there are *actual* gold coins in the US now, I've never seen one.)

If I were going to reform U.S. currency, the first thing I'd do is stop printing $2, $10, and $50 bills and make more of the other denominations to compensate. (I wouldn't take away their status as legal tender or anything, just stop printing new ones and let them slip gradually into disuse.) There are only five ones in a five, four fives in a twenty, and five twenties in a hundred; when there are 4-5 of a given denomination in the next one, you don't need another denomination in between them. I'd stop the minting of fifty-cent pieces and possibly dimes for the same reason (although, dimes are a lot smaller and lighter than nickels, so they might be worth keeping), and make the $1 coins have a diameter more different from quarters, so they don't get mistaken for them so easily.

US legal tender and you

[Anonymous Coward]

Ah the $2 bill. Noone seems to want to use you. You are still completely valid currency. In fact, the treasury still produces you (although less often because noone uses you). The treasury even mentions how to use properly on their website ( http://www.treas.gov/education/faq/currency/denomi nations.shtml#q5 ). Like any other currency! Blasphemy.

As for you skeptics wondering why on earth we would keep currency we no longer produce in circulation. Your country eventually phases out currency when new ones are introduced. Well, for one thing the $2 bill isn't being phased out by any means. And we, just like you (yes, shocking), phase out currency when it is no longer valid.

Again, looking at the treasury's website (the internet is wonderful isn't it), it explains all of these topics and more!

To the cashier in Best Buy. You are a lesser being, my friend. If you have any doubts, you don't call the police first thing, you ask somebody else, mabye one of the other cashiers (the ones in the normal check out lines) who probably have seen some strange things in their day. Or you do like any reasonable geek would do and check the internet.

To the police. I wish we could have smarter police. I know, it's not really your fault and I'm sure this wasn't your dream career choice. But try to act with some reason. You don't arrest people that pay in sequential bills. There are countless of other things you can do. A. actually talk to the guy and find out why they are sequential order. yes, he did explain himself, but you still had your doubts. But you could ask him where he got the bills at so you could check out his story and not end everything in embarassment. B. this is probably not very good either, but still better than arresting the guy. just copy his license plate down as he drives away.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Math, The Ancient]

TFA included details that he was cuffed to a stationary object while onlookers and other customers passed by. Best Buy doesn't have an office? 6 figures at the very least, imo.

Whoa, pardner!

[crawling_chaos]

You are asking an American to think and invest in the long term. We consider that to be unpatriotic, and call people who call for such investment "stoopid liberuls" and "Dumbocrats." Plus a rise in short term costs makes it harder to give tax cuts to our pimps. errr campaign contributors. It's just not our way.

Re:Toronto cops

[Darby]

And those who want to help people learn very quickly that that isn't what the job is about.
They either go with the other side or get out.

The main use of police forces these days is as a revenue generator.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[rob_squared]

I'm sure he was just trying to get her drunk so that he could arrest her for driving drunk later and fill is quota.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jonadab]

> Why the heck didn't the gov't just ignore the whiners and pull the $1 bill?

Because politicians like to stay in office.

If it were just a few whiners who didn't like $1 coins, it would be different, but in fact the overwhelming majority of the US population prefers bills to coins.

exactly reason coins aren't 100% legal tender

[davidwr]

This is exactly why AFAIK some, or perhaps all, coins aren't considered "legal tender for all debts" like currency is. They are "legal tender for SOME debts" specifically debts below a certain dollar amount.

I just couldn't find the relevant statute, I was hoping someone else could.

Re:exactly reason coins aren't 100% legal tender

[ubernostrum]

Actually, I later found the text of the Coinage Act of 1965, which does declare all currency of the United States, coin or paper, to be legal tender for all debts. It allows merchants to state up-front which denominations they will accept for purchases, but for debt-repayment purposes there is no limitation whatsoever.

Re:exactly reason coins aren't 100% legal tender

[hesiod]

> It allows merchants to state up-front which denominations they will accept

That's merchants. Does that imply that I can pay for my speeding tickets in pennies? This has inspired me to pay my past tickets... in an oh-so-special way.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Math, The Ancient]

No, they're just that stupid. Money is money.

Re:Legal Tender

[Math, The Ancient]

That's just it, he was paying a debt, remember? They were already threatening police action for not paying the debt. He offered legal tender.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[LetterJ]

"It's not hard, pay attention to what your spending"

Isn't that what Americans say to Europeans who complain about our currency being all the same color?

Oh, that's right. When an American messes up a non-American system, he's ignorant. When a non-American messes up an American system, the American system is ignorant and not nearly as sophisticated as the non-American setup.

Sorry, I forgot.

"public charge"

[dinodriver]

Regarding scenario one: While paying for one's beer before drinking it may not be payment of a debt, is it not a "public charge" that US 5103 also mentions? If not, what exactly is a "public charge" and where can I go to make one and pay it with $2bills and dollar coins?

Re:"public charge"

[DavidTC]

Everything except 'debts' are government: Public charges, taxes, and dues. Which is why currency doesn't say anything except 'debts'...it's telling random people they have to accept this. The government presumably already knows what it will accept.

Taxes are obvious.

I honestly have no idea what 'dues' are. Anyone?

Public charges are talked about here and seem to be things like the post office. Or toll roads, if the Feds operate any of those.

So a charge is exactly what you pay at a store: Something in exchange for goods or services that you will trade at the same time, instead of covering an existing debt.

Sadly, only public charges are required to accept payment in legal tender...the post office cannot demand you pay in goats, but everyone else can.

Australian money is so much better :)

[Cougar_]

Australian currency is so much better. We phased out paper money last millenium (still legal tender however), and now have plastic notes and coins. Our paper money was far more advanced than US currency anyway, it had full-colour printing!

Our lowest denomination is now the 5 cent coin, 1c and 2c have been removed from circulation. We also have 10c, 20c, 50c coins, all of which differ from each other in a logical manner (bigger coin = bigger value). Our $1 and $2 currency is in the form of gold (color) coins, both of which are chunky, and feel as though they're worth something, similar to the way UK Pound coins are. The $2 coin is smaller diameter, but thicker than the $1 coin, and was the most recent to appear in 1988.

Pretty much all denominations are popular. The 50c coin is not seen as much as others, but if your change is 70c, you'll get a 50c and 20c, not 3 x 20c + 10c. Our cash drawers are ingeniously designed to accomodate our currency correctly, so we have no such problems with "less popular" denominations. :) I saw an "old" $50 note for the first time in about 10 years a couple of months ago, I accepted it as payment for a chinese food delivery, knowing that there would be no problem with it, I'd have happily accepted $2 notes too, despite them being out of circulation for 17 years. :)

Re:Australian money is so much better :)

[tommck]

"Our paper money was far more advanced than US currency anyway, it had full-colour printing!"

??

Just because it has lots of colo[u]rs on it doesn't make it more advanced. It just makes it [potentially] prettier

T

Re:Australian money is so much better :)

[tuxedobob]

I visited Australia in 2000 for (among other things) the lunar eclipse that came within seconds of the theoretical maximum. Although I was rather impressed with the lack of pennies (do coins have the same nicknames down there as the US?), the $1 and $2 coins usually made up the weight. It was a wash as I figured. Though $1 bills are so prevalent over here, if people would fully switch to coins, rather than having these wannabe dollar coins that no one in practice actually uses, I imagine that would make many vending machines easier to manufacture, as they would no longer need a bill slot.

I seem to remember the coins being metal? And you had paper money for $5 and up; has that disappeared in the last 5 years?

Re:Australian money is so much better :)

[KD5YPT]

It also makes it much difficult to duplicate.

Ofcourse it also depends on the color it uses. Full-colour printing has a pretty good chance of being counterfeited (if it uses the standard magenta, blue, yellow pallete). US' single color currency uses only black and true-green (something that's non-existence in commerical use) and color shifting ink.

Re:Australian money is so much better :)

[tommck]

The US relies on special paper that can not be gotten any other way, and magentic strips inside the paper, and special inks... and watermarks... and special messages in extremely small print, etc.

None of these have anything to do with the colo[u]r.

Go here if you want more info:

http://www.moneyfactory.com/newmoney/

T

Re:Australian money is so much better :)

[gui_tarzan2000]

This from people who waste vowels... ;)

Re:Australian money is so much better :)

[artefactual]

hmm where can I get me some of those plastic coins? I've lived in australia for 29 years now and still haven't come across one.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jonadab]

> It seems that US currency has gone through many different changes over
> the years, and yet it's all still legal tender

Actually, not all of it. Bills over $100, though most Americans don't know this, are no longer worth anything except as collector's items. (In practice, this is not a big change for most people, since most folks never used or saw the large bills on a regular basis anyway. They were taken out of circulation because most of their practical uses were criminal in nature.)

However, the $2 and the fifty-cent-piece and dollar coin and so forth *are* still legal tender, and in fact are even still produced, just nobody uses them much.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[SuperQ]

I don't think I've ever had a problem giving dollar coins as payment.. mostly because when I'm paying cash, I pay close to exact ammount, so they have to look twice thinking I'm not paying enough. I'm also carefuly that i get correct change back.

It's one of those things that I would love to do if I were working in retail, give dollar coins as change.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jridley]

Dude, all retailers make up for skinny margins and loss leaders by charging high amounts for accessories. Just look at printer cables. You can go to newegg and buy USB cables for $1.50, and they're fine, I've used dozens of them on printers/scanners/hard drives, no problems. Best Buy charges $20 for them.

Back when I was selling clones, the price competition was really bad; we'd make $15 on a $200 printer. You can't live on that at the local retailer level. We'd instantly double our margin by selling a printer cable with it for $20, which we bought from an importer for 74 cents.

I have absolutely no problem with people charging whatever they want for this kind of stuff, selling $100 Monster Cable patch cords, whatever. It helps separate fools from their money, which is almost always a good thing, unless the fools then can't feed their kids or something. That's probably not a problem with people buying DVI cables.

Your Signature

[macdaddy]

USA: the enemy of the free world.

Would you mind changing your quote to instead point at the actual views of the administration of our country and not a generally vague and inaccurate statement about the sentiment of all the population? For example,

Current USA Government: the enemy of the free world.

That would be a much more accurate statement and wouldn't malign the large percentage of the US population who's views do not reflect that of our "leaders." There is a significant distinction. Thanks

Re:Your Signature

[TrentTheWiseA]

Just to be REALLY nit-picky. The United States isn't a democracy (surprise, surprise) it's a republic. A representative establishment where states form the base unit of government representation to the actual populace. A democracy is just what everyone has heard over and over. The Civil War here was also known as the war of states' rights. It's also when the slogan "These United States" actually shifted to "The United States".

If the US was an actual democracy, we wouldn't have this bogus Electoral College BS. It would be a straight popular vote.

Re:Your Signature

[bsartist]

The Civil War here was also known as the war of states' rights. It's also when the slogan "These United States" actually shifted to "The United States".

This post was brought to you by Ken Burns - and viewers like you.

Re:Your Signature

[einhverfr]

If you were from China, or had to live as an untouchable in the streets of Calcutta, or were one of the hundreds of thousands killed by the former Iraqi regime, or one of the tens of MILLIONS killed by Joseph Stalin, THEN maybe I would listen to you make an assessment of enemies of the free world

Just as a point, Saddam was US allies during periods where some of the worst attrocities occurred. Stalin was also an ally of the US. Also China and India are on good terms with the US for the moment.

With friends like these, who needs enemies? How do your points negate the original poster's?

Re:Your Signature

[sowth]

I think it would be more accurate to say:

All large organized governments and corporations: the enemies of the free world.

Especially if they distribute $2 bills! ;-)

Re:Your Signature

[einhverfr]

List of recent CIA operatives include not only Saddam and Osama bin Ladin but also Noriega....

Other earlier allies included Ho Chi Minh, and others. Our worst enemies it seems are our friends and employees....

Re:Your Signature

[cortana]

You really should stop relying on Fox News for all your information.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[ThetaPi]

Probably not. Check his account number. It is ten times less than yours!

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[HalB]

That would be awesome - I want nine of those. I could buy a gallon of gas,

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[alw53]

The money is not backed up by anything other than people's willingness to use it, so for the currency to be stable, it's important that people see it as the same thing that they recognize as value..

Re:Legal tender in the USA; need help w/ coin limi

[BardicStorm]

However, as mentioned in that answers.com snippet, it must be a voluntary transaction to avoid the legal tender laws. Having your car towed and then having the towing company refuse to give it back unless you pay is not by any means a voluntary transaction.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[macdaddy]

I use them daily. I hand then out as tips and use them at the corner QT when I buy a pop. I never check my wallet when I leave the house to see if I have any cash in it. Even if I did I don't have a drawer full of cash sitting around for me to replenish my wallet's supply. I do however make sure I have a variety of coins in my pocket every morning. 4-5 quarters, a couple of nickels, a couple of dimes, 3-4 pennies, and at least 5 Susan B Anthony's or Sacagawea's. That will cover a couple of pops, a gallon or two of gas if aboslutely necessary, and maybe a fast food lunch if I can't hit a sit down place that takes my debit card. Works for me.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[kjamez]

i like the die-cast 2 quid coins myself. now THEY look like are worth more than the rest of the change in my pockets.

Re:Cashers are not ... !

[Math, The Ancient]

" Phi Beta Kappa graduates at anything!"

This speaks volumes about you and the education system.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[belg4mit]

NO it sucks a$$. First, counterfeit coins or slugs are passed off to the consumer easier
(I got stuck witha 500 Lira coin because it's nearly identical to a 2 euro piece) and secondly
when vending mahines mis(or fail to)register your payment you loose a lot more. With bills it simply spits it back out.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[sumdumass]

nah.. it was the bills. they exchanged them out and swaped some around.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[belg4mit]

No, it's not. It really really is not.
It wasn't before with the true greenbacks,
and certainly isn't with the cartoon heads
or the fvcking monopoly money. The only
individuals who coul reasonably claim to have
difficulty are the blind, but for all I know
there's Braille markers somehere on the bill.

Re:Um dear /. crowd

[Giggle Stick]

say you pump gas at a place that lets you pay after pumping (rare these days, but it used to be common).
Off Topic, I know but: I've lived in 3 different states and driven around a lot, and this isn't that rare at all. Some places stop doing it at night. I think in the big cities it might be rare, but there's a whole other more rural part of the world where people are much more trustworthy. It's an interesting bit of human nature to assume that how it is in your "neck of the woods" is the same everywhere else. I know I'm occasionally guilty of this too.

similar problem in the UK

[mqx]

There's a similar problem here in the UK. Everyone knows what the british pound notes (5, 10, 20, 50 [rarely]) look like. Unfortunately, not so many people know that scottish pound notes are also legal tender in the UK. Once I was standing in a queue at a Cafe Nero here in London - someone ahead of me tried to pay with 5 scottish pound note, and the cashier (of southern european origin, so note too familiar with UK currency) refused to take the note. The customer protested. The cashier still refused. Others in the queue, including me, pointed out that the note was legal. The cashier still refused to take it, he didn't want to wear the risk (someone else behind the counter, also of southern european origin, shrugged their shoulders of the problem -- i.e. because if it were a dud note, the cashier would see it come out of his minimum wage). Someone else in the queue offered to swap him for a 5 british pound note, which they did, and the cashier was happy.

Re:similar problem in the UK

[rkww]

More specifically, in the UK "Legal Tender has a very narrow and technical meaning in the settlement of debts. It means that a debtor cannot successfully be sued for non-payment if he pays into court in legal tender. It does not mean that any ordinary transaction has to take place in legal tender or only within the amount denominated by the legislation. Both parties are free to agree to accept any form of payment whether legal tender or otherwise according to their wishes. In order to comply with the very strict rules governing an actual legal tender it is necessary, for example, actually to offer the exact amount due because no change can be demanded. "

Re:similar problem in the UK

[rkww]

Scottish banknotes are not legal tender in the UK. This was discussed in the context of joining the Euro:
"Scottish bank notes are not themselves legal tender; they are merely promissory notes issued under the Bank Notes (Scotland) Act 1845 and the Currency and Bank Notes Act 1928. They are backed by reserves in the banks concerned, but they are not themselves legal tender. For that reason, they could remain in circulation as promissory notes if they were reissued as euro notes in the event that we joined the single currency. Of course, the European central bank and the other member states would not recognise them as legal tender, but, as they do not have such recognition in England or, indeed, in Scotland, that would not be a problem."

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[scottv67]

Australia doesn't have any notes for anything less then $5

Nothing smaller than a fin? What do you take when you go to the tittie bar?

Tipping strippers with fives would quickly put me in the poorhouse. :^)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[brouski]

This is Slashdot, after all.

What was even more suprising

[Prince Vegeta SSJ4]

Another time at the same supermarket, my friend got carded. The cashier didn't recognize the out-of-state driver's license and got the manager, who examined it for a while before deciding: "MARY-land? No way." He'd never heard of the state of Maryland.

Was that he was in the state of Virgin-ya

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[bailster]

When I had my first cashier job and had to count my own till, the night supervisor expressed shock and surprise at my cash count: It was the first time anyone had ever come in exactly on count, not a penny over, not a penny under.

Therefore I needed to be watched... :)

Which started me thinking, what the hell am I doing at this job if I am the first one ever to get it right??

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Clay Pigeon -TPF-VS-]

As long as you remain a student you should be covered by your parent health insurance.

Re:You need our cash. bright, plastic, unmistakabl

[uberjon]

yeah all american money looks and feels fake to me, you guys should start colour coding and using better paper.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[scottv67]

what's with the US infatuation with $1 bills?

Two words: tittie bar :^)

Which Best Buy I wonder

[Giggle Stick]

It would be cool to go to this Best Buy just to laugh at them. Just look at the cashiers and giggle until they ask you why. Or have a protest of sorts, where every body brings a 2 dollar bill and buys one small thing like a candy bar by the register or somethng. That would be really funny to make them take a few hundred dollars worth of 2 dollar bills to the bank themselves. Course, I guess they did that already once, unless they threw them away after they showed them to the SS agent. Is it funny that the US government has an agency with the initials SS.

No rant from me today.

[John Pfeiffer]

I don't have the time to say anything too rant-ish or wordy (An uncommon occurance for me) so I'll just say this: Japanese currency is cool. And I read a similar story about $2 bills here: http://www.digiserve.com/eescape/closet/silly/2-at -Taco-Bell.html

True or not, it's still funny.

As an aside, I spent some $2 bills when I was a kid, and no one thought anything of it. (I'm 24 now.) They really need to teach this generation of cashiers...SOMETHING. The people training them can't just ASSUME they know wtf a $2 bill is, or what any of those silver dollars and half dollars out there are. Anyway, busy busy. I'm off.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[STrinity]

I guess my point is: try not to confuse the poor cashier.

I'd have more sympathy for that position if the cashiers had more than first grade math skills. I was in a Best Buy once, and the total came to something like $17.32, so I handed over $22.52. The clerk couldn't figure out why I'd hand over such an odd amount of money, and ended up giving me the $2.52 back, punching $20 into the register and giving me $2.68 in additional change.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[svyyn]

When I was in Munich during the summer of 2002, I was buying groceries and the guy in front of me was paying with with 500 euro note. The odd thing was that the cashier just took it in stride and gave him his change, which included a number of 100 notes.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Nathaniel]

Quick, someone tell the government that the people don't like being taxed, maybe they will stop that too.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[spectre_240sx]

Pretty sweet, but it still doesn't seem like you can transfer funds peer to peer with it. I might have missed that part though. Still, it's definately a step in the right direction.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[STrinity]

Sacagawea coins, while near the same size as a quarter, they are not easily mistaken. First, they are gold in color.

Only when fresh from the mint. If you've ever seen one that's been in active circulation, you'd know it turns an ugly brown.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[theLOUDroom]

Yes it does. Most countries aren't so silly as to make all of their bill denominations the same size and color. But that's another rant.

Acutally, it's pretty easy for one to argue that this is a good thing.

Making all the bills the same size and color means that people have to actually LOOK AT THE BILLS. This makes it a lot harder to pass off a counterfeit bill.
And even better choice you be if the made the security features (holograms, color changing ink, etc) the actual indicator of value itself. Then you'd have people checking those features every time they got a bill.

In short, you want people looking at something that is hard to fake to determine that value of their money. A piece of paper of the right size and color isn't hard to fake.

Loonies and Twoonies

[gryphon_church]

We've had 1 and 2 dollar coins in Canada for some time now. They work just fine.
Easy in that most pop and laundry machines take them. And all the smaller coins go into the jar so I'm never carrying around more than 2 or 3 dollar coins.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Networkink*Man]

2 of ya's from the greater GR area.

I make 3.

I went to GVSU for 4 years. The differnece in credit hour costs was negligible compared to the experiences you gain from going to a 4 year uni.

Later guys.

Actually pens react with Starch...

[purduephotog]

... and that turns the line black.

Which goes to show the cashier is a moron. A 'citizens arrest' was instigated by a false statement which led to incarceration.

I'd say a lawsuit is warranted against BB and the cashier. The officer failed to do a sensible thing (such as laugh his head off) and help the guy carry his receipt out.

Re:Actually pens react with Starch...

[DavidTC]

Yeah, I realized I was a little unclear, because I forgot to mention how those pens can be wrong.

Those iodine pens react with starch. Paper has starch, and the fabric in bills does not.

Sadly, it can easily get starch on it, the most obvious way is to accidently send it through the laundary. Either by really starching it, or sending it through with actual paper next to it that falls apart and 'melts' into it.

However, that wasn't what happened here. The cashier tested it with the pen, and the ink smeared slightly, but not black mark was made. Which isn't even what that test is for.

And smearing can happen on new bills. Grab an obviously new bill, hold it tight on a flat surface, and rub your thumb back and forth, hard. Usually, the bill will be fine, but look carefully at your thumb...you'll have tiny balls of ink on it that came off.

Don't worry if you 'hit the jackpot' and actually find one that smears badly, you can just take it to any bank, saying an ATM gave you this bill and you don't know if it's fake. They will know it's not and replace it.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[minion]

IMO, if they would just come out with a nice thick and chunky coin like the British 1 pound coin, one that has a nice feel when you plop it down on a bar and *looks* like it's worth more than other coins, then there would be no problem getting the public to use it. I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to actually happen, though.

I don't know about everyone else, but I hate coins. Coins are a waste of pocket space. They jingle, they weigh down the front of your trousers, and they're heavy. Why would I want to get rid of dollar bills and carry a bunch of blasted coins around?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[minion]

Guess you haven't been to Ecuador. Here, where the US dollar is the official currency, you get golden dollar coins as change at least as often as the $1 bills, probably more.

I'm glad our government found somewhere to ship those damn coins. We hate em.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[SDEggbert]

I know a guy that carries a roll of the dollar coins around to use as payment for lunch. It seems people associate some extra value with them because they are uncommon. About once a month he is able to sell his roll to another customer in line for double the amount it's worth.
He then of course stops at the local bank to pick up another roll.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[psmurf]

you euro guys obviously don't get the fox news channel. If you did you would realize AMERICA IS NEVER WRONG.

god bless the usa!!!! (!)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jeffphil]

They beat the crap out of $1 bills

Yeah right. Have you ever tried giving a stripper a $1 coin? They'll beat the crap out of you.

$1 Canadian != $1 US

[stuartkahler]

At times, having a canadian $1 coin has been alot more like having a US 50c coin. The canadian $2 coin was introduced around the same time as the US $1 coin, which is appropriate.

I imagine if the canadian government had left the $2 bills in circulation, they would still be preferred by the people.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[MajorDick]

You must be daft, or your country is practicing revisionist history.

My family, the Snowballs, is here because my Great Great Gandfater when he was 12 was caught hunting on a neighboring nobles land, they gave then 2 options, hang the boy, or the whole family leaves England.

12 members in all made the trip, all the Snowballs from that reigon, many were none too happy, and a few returned, but better than see a 12 yyear old boy hanged .

That was 1874

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[adamb0mb]

I was at a local grocery store... and I was trying to pay with some $2 bills (habit I picked up from my dad... who thinks the $1 bill is the most worthless thing on the planet).

I handed the bills over, and the clerks looks through them, and won't except ANY of them because one of them is printed with RED ink. These are actually really cool looking.. and I'm kinda happy she didn't take it, because I keep it in my cube (and then reference just how "money I am")

Luckily they took debit, so it never really escalated past "enter your pin".

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[RedCard]

It's the same in New Zealand.
Only our chicks are much hotter.

What, you mean like Rosie?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Kymermosst]

You're thinking of the new dollar coin, the older silver colored ones with Susan on them are fairly easy to confuse with quarters superficially.

No, I was thinking about the new dollar coin because the parent post implied (in the text I quoted) that the new coin had the exact same problems as the old coin. I disagree.

The Susan B. Anthony dollars are only confusing to people who don't pay attention, I guess. I've never made that mistake, and I've only ran into a few minimum-wage clerks who have said "you only gave me $.50" when I gave them $2 in Susan B's. Most people didn't bat an eye, even in my little town. Then there are places like Boston, where you see $1 coins all the time because many machines that sell tokens for the T take $1 coins and give them as change, too.

Every paycheck I used to get a ton of them from the bank (in my effort to get them circulating... I prefer coins over bills in the $1 denomination. Now I have probably 50 or so in my safe (since they are no longer in production). Now I get the Sacajawea (however you spell it), and spend them instead.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[k-0s]

That is what pisses me off about the whole situation, the law enforcement taking him away in handcuffs. Any call to his bank would have cleared up that he withdraws 2 dollar bills very regularly. I read in an article that the department or FBI blamed this on 9/11. Something along the lines of "we can't be too safe in a post-9/11 world". So the real question now is which terrorist among you is going to organize a "Pay Best Buy In 2 Dollar Bills Day"?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Khaotix]

wouldn't microwaving your currency make things a pain in the unit when you want to actually use the bill? Seems stupid to me ... am I missing something here?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Khaotix]

I actually carry as little cash as possible and I can't stand loose change. I keep cash on hand for bars and annoying places that have spending limits before they are willing to accept plastic. Bills are lighter than coins, take up less space, and don't annoy the stripper as much when you throw a couple at them.

Re: US bills all the same size

[Kymermosst]

As a matter of interest, if having all the bills the same size is such a good idea, why aren't all coins the same size as well?

(1) Tradition. (2) The printing on a coin is a lot smaller, and there is less contrast.

With a bill, the printing is large, and the contrast between the paper and ink is high, allowing faster recognition of the denomination.

Note that some people in this discussion have complained that Susan B Anthony dollars and quarters are too similar.

Except the dollar is bigger, the bust is facing to the right, and has a regular polygon (a hendecagon - 11 sided) stamped on the outer edge of both the obverse and the reverse.

The quarter is smaller, bust facing left, and has a thin outer band on the obverse and reverse.

The only similarity that makes a real difference is that neither one has smoothe outside edges. This, IMHO, is the only real problem with the Susan B., and could have been changed easily.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[psmurf]

why the hell didn't we stick with metric in the 70's?

it seems "the man" takes us all for idiots. of course he could be right ...

How to take action

[geodescent]

Wow. Several hundred comments on this and not ONE about how to take action and let your voice be heard at that specific best buy or police department. Unlike any other flame, I'll answer my own complaint. Here's hoping we can let our voice be heard. Keep in mind that all the news articles out there claim different things. They all say the Best Buy is in Lutherville, but a google map of lutherville is TOWSON or TIMONIUM. Makes no sense. Anyhow, I gathered up a bunch of PUBLICLY AVAILABLE data and here's the info.

BEST BUY (from best buy's site)
Towson MD (Store 149)
1717 York Road
Timonium, MD 21093
Phone: 410-561-2260
Hours: Mon-Sat 10:00am-9:00pm
Sun 11:00am-7:00pm

BEST BUY (from Google Maps)
(410) 561-2261
1717 York Rd
Towson, MD 21204

WHITEPAGES.com (possible match for Mike, based on closest distance from Best Buy according to MapQuest directions.)
Michael Bolesta
2 Airway Cir
Towson, MD 21286-3460
410-821-8623

WHITEPAGES.com (alternate match 20 miles from same best buy)
Michael C Bolesta
3406 Fait Ave
Baltimore, MD 21224-4309
(410) 327-1164

BALTIMORE POLICE DEPARTMENT
http://www.ci.baltimore.md.us/government/police/

CAPITAL CITY STUDENT TOURS (with Mike's pic)
http://www.capitalcitytours.com/
capitalcitytourguide@comcast.net

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Penguin's Advocate]

New York City Subway ticket machines give change in $1 coins.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Anonymous Coward]

compared with the people who deliberately smear stuff all over the mirrors and other fixtures in the bathroom (a semi-regular occurance when I worked at T. Bell)

If it was Taco Bell, perhaps they weren't smearing 'stuff' at all. Perhaps the stuff was actually exploding all over the bathroom!

How to take action!

[geodescent]

Hopefully this one is root level, unlike my last attempt. Wow. Several hundred comments on this and not ONE about how to take action and let your voice be heard at that specific best buy or police department. Unlike any other flame, I'll answer my own complaint. Here's hoping we can let our voice be heard. Keep in mind that all the news articles out there claim different things. They all say the Best Buy is in Lutherville, but a google map of lutherville is TOWSON or TIMONIUM. Makes no sense. Anyhow, I gathered up a bunch of PUBLICLY AVAILABLE data and here's the info. BEST BUY (from best buy's site) Towson MD (Store 149) 1717 York Road Timonium, MD 21093 Phone: 410-561-2260 Hours: Mon-Sat 10:00am-9:00pm Sun 11:00am-7:00pm BEST BUY (from Google Maps) (410) 561-2261 1717 York Rd Towson, MD 21204 WHITEPAGES.com (possible match for Mike, based on closest distance from Best Buy according to MapQuest directions.) Michael Bolesta 2 Airway Cir Towson, MD 21286-3460 410-821-8623 WHITEPAGES.com (alternate match 20 miles from same best buy) Michael C Bolesta 3406 Fait Ave Baltimore, MD 21224-4309 (410) 327-1164 BALTIMORE POLICE DEPARTMENT http://www.ci.baltimore.md.us/government/police/ CAPITAL CITY STUDENT TOURS (with Mike's pic) http://www.capitalcitytours.com/ capitalcitytourguide@comcast.net

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Khyber]

I wonder if this man is going to have the bright idea to sue Best Buy. Perhaps they'll learn their lesson about the way they treat their customers.

The $2 bill has been in circulation for longer than I've been alive. I remember getting one as a present on the Chinese New Year when I was a kid. Took it to the nearest store, bought candy, and that was that.

For a cashier (who's job is to handle cash and recognize potential fakes) to look at a $2 bill and mark it as counterfeit, I have to wonder if she even bothered to check to see if the ink had turned color. Had it not, hey, it's a relatively safe assumption that the bill is not counterfeit. Instead she holds the guy there, gets him arrested, all for using legal tender in a form of protest. In some ways, this sounds like a freedom of speech violation, plus wrongful arrest. I, for one, hope Best Buy gets nailed to the blasphemous cross that most Big Business needs to be nailed to in the justice system.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Anonymous Coward]

Cashiers and bartenders and the like tend to hate the two dollar bill because they are too easy to mistake for a twenty, especially in a busy place where the lighting may not be all that great. If they get them they tend to put them into their deposit and the accounting office sends them back to the bank.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[FlopEJoe]

"God forbid you ask her out..."

What does that mean, exactly?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Sj0]

At any rate, that's not Best Buys problem, nor is it the cashiers.

I only wish I had such quick police at my disposal when I worked in retail, years ago. It could have kept the trash to a minimum.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[srleffler]

None of those suggestions would have helped, since the card apparently had actually been reported stolen to the credit card company. Given that, there is no way he/she would be leaving that store without the involvement of the police. Might as well call them in as early as possible and get it over with.

All the credit card company knows is that the card was reported stolen. If the cashier calls them, they will tell the cashier to call the police. The credit card company is not going to call the mom to verify. She already reported the card stolen. The cashier is right to assume that the driver's license is fake (made to match the card), or perhaps that the license was stolen along with the card and doctored or is being used by someone who looks similar. Given that, there is no easy way for the cashier or the credit card company to verify that the person in the store is authorized to use the card.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[srleffler]

The cashier has no way of knowing that the person he/she calls is actually the cardholder. If the card were stolen, the thief could give the cashier a friend's number and the friend could pretend to be the cardholder. The cashier was right to call in the police.

Re:Legal Tender notes over $100

[HarryDHatt]

I disagree. Bills over $100 are no longer printed and banks are directed to return such bills to the Treasury, but they are still legal tender in Washington and the territories just like all other Federal Reserve and United States notes.

Incorrect

[Uriel]

"No State shall...make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts..."

So the states cannot declare anything else a legal tender(but as they can't mint their own coins...) but it doesn't matter because the law being cited is a federal one.

People citing this point are often anti-federalists who believe the commerce clause has been abused like a White House intern. That might even be true, but it's the law at this time. If you think the law is wrong, protest. Get yourself arrested. Appeal to the very highest courts...and pray.

Re:Incorrect

[HarryDHatt]

One need not be an anti-federalist to read. The Federal government was given only limited powers over the states and declaring what is to be a legal tender is not one of those enumerated powers. The Federal government WAS given all powers of sovereignty within the District and territories including the power to make things a legal tender. 90% of laws are local and 90% of Federal law does not apply to the 50 states. This is not a political opinion, it is a fact. Look it up.

Re:Incorrect

[Uriel]

Uh...so you support ammending the constitution to make all the de facto federal powers de jure? No? Then it seems to me you're at least somewhat anti-federalist in this context. It's not necessarily a bad thing. I imagine most of the original Federalists would be surprised by the state of our government today.

Are we an entire nation, then, of people who cannot read? None of the politicians, none of the judges...?

(Seriously, saying one doesn't need to be anti-federalist to hold those views is like saying one doesn't need to be anti-Catholic to know that the pope has no power to speak Ex Cathedra. Is there something wrong with being anti-federalist?)

Re:Incorrect

[HarryDHatt]

I don't recall saying there was or wasn't anything wrong with being anti-federalist nor did I confirm nor deny being an anti-federalist. I merely stated that one could not conclude an opinion from merely stating the facts unless it is that anti-federalists know how to read. LOL

Re:Incorrect

[DavidTC]

You're a fool who can't read. All that says is that states can't print money. They can issue gold and silver coins, but not print money.

It doesn't say that the Feds can't do that.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[geminidomino]

"Short-change artist," actually. The type of scam is also known as "short-changing."

HTH

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Servo]

That's why I always used the debit card function... :)

Carrying cash is PIA, carrying coins is even more PIA.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Sj0]

So american...

Get brought in for using counterfeit currency in a case where it certainly seemed like something wasn't kosher, and it's a lawsuit.

Do you know who pays for accepting counterfeit currency? I wouldn't accept some bill nobody's seen before either.

$1 coin

[MattR83]

Here's an idea... How about taping four quarters together, there's your $1 coin, distinctly different from the rest of U.S. coinage and it would be easy enough to break down if you need 25 cents for a vending machine, etc.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[JockAMundo]

Here in Canada I've seen a stripper sit on the stage with a drink coaster protectings her privates as everyone threw loonies and twonies.

Necessity is the mother of invention!

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[kannibal_klown]

I hate BestBuy. They've screwed me on a couple of things, them saying 1 thing then insisting on another. I've walked out mid-purchase before because I've caught a stupid cashier lying to my face.

In any case, the poor bastard should get some money either from BestBuy or the county. I think too many people sue for stupid reasons in this country, but this is definately 1 case where it's warranted.

In any case, the kid should get fired. Yeh yeh you could say "well it was an honest mistake." Well, even honest mistakes should get you fired when you cause something as big as this.

I'm still kind of young (25), so it wasn't THAT long ago I was a cashier. I know how it is, and how annoying it can be to deal with stupid customers. But what he did was monumentally stupid.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[geminidomino]

Then Canada would sue us.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[mbd1475]

umm... six figures for a night in jail? I think you have a small misunderstanding of how damages sounding in tort work...

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Kiryat Malachi]

That and the fact that they make the best greasy hamburgers in the world. Triple, bleu cheese (sometimes provolone when bleu was just too much to think about), grilled onions, pickles, ketchup, mustard, and regular fries, please!

I *miss* Blimpy.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[ChristTrekker]

I give myself my monthly "pocket cash" in as many $2 bills as the bank carries. (I like to leave them as tips, which is about the only thing I pay cash for anymore.) This month I got the entire amount in crisp, fresh 2003-series twos. When I spend them, people often say, "No you can keep that one, give me something else." See, here in the US at least, people like to collect outdated currency. Since they so seldom see anyone spend a two, they assume they're not printed any longer.

I'd like to see them not printed any longer, nor any other bill. Money should be gold and silver, not fiat currency.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[dubl-u]

This suggests strongly that the anti-forgery measures on the Euro bills are just plain not good enough.

That, or there's slightly more incentive to counterfit a currency used by 360 million people than one accepted by 16 million people. Or both.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[NonSequor]

It's just the Greek and Latin words are related since Greek and Latin aren't too distantly related. Dime came to English from French so it's more accurate to say it's derived from the Latin decimus.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Eunuchswear]

Um, why would you have 15 dollar coins? Personaly when I carry 15 euros I've usualy got a 10 and a 5.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[mrRay720]

That must make it a bit of a bitch to buy a house.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[dubl-u]

He'd never heard of the state of Maryland.

People that stupid should be euthanized. Seriously.

Hey, let's not be dramatic here. Neutering would be fine.

Breaking Twenties

[rfc1394]

An associate of mine will sometimes pay for something small that costs maybe $1 or so with a $20 in order to get change. Sometimes they'll ask if he has something smaller. He'll present a $2 bill.

He tells me that invariably they will break the twenty instead of taking the $2!

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[amacleod98]

Perhaps you mean unlike England - we have £1 notes in Scotland.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Guppy06]

I keep hearing the idea tossed about as some sort of alternative to the usual "quiet, burning obsession" option, but I'm personally not sure how the whole "asking out" thing works. All I know is that it sounds very, very dangerous.

Thats the fun part.

[purduephotog]

Most of my bills have had starch messages written on them. Heh heh heh heh.

"IF YOU CAN READ THIS THIS IS NOT A COUNTERFIT"

"WWW.WHERESGEORGE.COM"

Yeah they'd have to rub the whole bill, but still...

(To your other point, yes, the cashier demonstrated total ignorance to what the pen was supposed to be used for- which is why I find it even funnier...)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Kyosuke77]

Obviously you've never heard of the Canadian loonie tossing game. Apparently if you get it on a certain part of her you get a reward, or so I hear... *cough*

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[beakburke]

Think that's strange, try paying in treausry notes rather than the familiar federal reserve ones. :)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Voxus]

I love that big bronze coin - but none of the machines I use accept them!

Re:I could be wrong...

[drgonzo59]

That is if you can read and know what a 1, 5, or 10 is. In Europe they just pay in colors and sizes. "That'll be a small red one and a couple medium blue ones"

I grew up in a country with different sized and colored bills and I have to say that it does make it easier to organize the wad-o-cash that way. Your eyes process color and size faster then read numbers. So if you are in a long line at Wal-Mart and grandma is counting her bills up front for 5 minutes, I wonder if having different colors and sizes would take less time, say 3 minutes.

The problem would then be that the vending machines would have to be fixed and also the self-checkout machines at the grocery stores would need to be changed. That is a strong lobby group, so probably it would not happen any time soon.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[mingot]

Coins are more expensive to make (both in material and actual money), are bulkier (this more difficult/expensive to ship) and heavy. So no, paper currency isn't likely to go anywhere.

Coins are are actually more cost effective. They generally last about 30 years. Bills usually last about 18 months.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Jesus_666]

1.) Make lots of 1$ coins
2.) Declare 1$ bills to lose their value N months from now
3.) See people rush to the stores to exchange old money for new one
4.) ???
5.) Insert ", ???, Prifot" joke

Worked quite well when Europe switched over to the Euro, except for 4.) and 5.) - we screwed up there.

6.) ...

[Jesus_666]

6.) Use preview button to correct obvious spelling mistakes

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[drgonzo59]

I don't think it is an issue of whether people can use the same size currency or not. Obviously they can and do. The issue is that of efficiency and cost. Each way of doing things has its pro and cons.

For example, it is possible to read the numbers and use the bills, but the eyes and the brain process color and size a lot faster than they read. It is not by much more, but have you been stuck in line where grandma is at the cashier is trying to count her bills? I wonder if it would take her less time if the bills would be easier to identify. Even if it is 30 seconds less, that is still 30 seconds out of the time of everyone in line. So it seems the major advantage of colors and sizes is easy and fast identification. That could be important.

Now the disadvantage is having to modify all the vending and self-checkout lanes in stores and in fact all money counting and processing equipment (read tens of thousands of ATMs). Since we live in a country where there are a lot of those (even the color copy machine at my school has a dollar bill reader). That's not a small thing, just the vending machine lobby is probably big enough to be heard in Congress.

Your point of organization in the wallet is subjective. I grew up in a country with colored and different sized currency it find it much easier to organize it in my wallet. The large bills go to one side and the smaller to the other side. Just looking at the pile from above it is easy to see how many of each kind of bill one has. Colors help too.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Jesus_666]

In Germany we have a similar system called "GeldKarte" ("MoneyCard"). You go to your bank, insert the card (which actually is a chip on your normal bank card) into a charger, put money on it and then use your freshly charged GeldKarte to pay at any store that supports ist. Yes, at all three of them.

Okay, most supermarkets* here accept the GK, but I've never seen anyone actually use it.


* Note: Most German supermarkets are to American ones what a VW Beetle is to a Monster Truck.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Josh Booth]

Well, New Jersey Transit, which runs the commuter trains in NJ, heavily uses dollar coins of all kinds. While the ticket machines accept dollar bills as well, they don't make change in bills.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Guido von Guido]

My basement. Then again, I make the stuff.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[scruffyMark]

Actually I think it was silver that was mined in Joachimstal

Dude.

[/dev/trash]

Sharks with fricken lasers.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[bostonguy]

You should try paying for something at a convenience store (with a teenager at the register) and use Susan B Anthony dollars instead of paper 1's. I've gotten some priceless dull stares over the years by doing this.

The first time I recall it happening, I was honestly just getting rid of some change from a USPS vending machine. But after seeing how the poor kid reacted, I try to do it on a regular basis. When you drop the change in the kid's hand, they just assume they're quarters (since they look and feel like $0.25), and wait a few seconds for you to hand them the paper money.

Then you have to say, What are you waiting for? I just paid you."
And they stare lifelessly at the "quarters" in their hand, and wonder what you're talking about.

Sometimes they actually look at them, and realize they aren't quarters. But most of the time, you have to explain what they are...

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Big Diluth]

I think the increased weight would be a bigger drawback.

The the shipping weight to distribute say $1000 in one dollar coins is much different than one thousand one dollar coins.

Bills would be easier to count, bundle into stacks with a rubber band and slip into a night deposit box than coins that needed to be counted and rolled.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Zork the Almighty]

because who the fuck would ever want to go there?

People who were put on the terrorist watch list for paying with $2 bills ?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[fm6]

Do you mean United States Notes? I'm suprised there are any still in circulation -- none have been printed since 1966.

I do thank you for reminding me of them. I dimly recall bills with red seals from my childhood, but I was unaware that they were a different kind of currency!

Re:It finally happened (repost +1)

[mfnickster]

> I've been in NM for the last 2 years and I can safely tell you that there is no enlightenment here.

The last time there was enlightenment in Albuquerque, it moved to Redmond, Washington!

Which reminds me of a story told in "Hard Drive: Bill Gates and the Making of the Microsoft Empire." Gates' friend Carl Edmark used to hang out with him in high school.

In their sophomore year, Edmark had a summer job working in a Seattle bank. One day, an elderly woman came in and deposited several thousand-dollar bills into her account. Edmark had never seen a thousand-dollar bill before. That night, he told Gates. "Well, let's get one," Gates said. The next day, he gave Edmark a huge wad of twenty-dollar bills, and Edmark took the money to one of the bank's managers, who gave him a thousand dollar bill.

That night, Edmark and Gates went to Dick's, a popular hamburger hangout noted for serving the greasiest fries in town. The two boys ordered cheeseburgers and fries. When the order came, Gates nonchalantly opened his wallet and handed the cashier the crisp thousand-dollar bill. She looked at the bill, then looked up at Gates, repeating her eye motion several times. Finally she went to get the manager.

"Got anything smaller?" the manager asked with a straight face when he came out. Gates, looking five years younger than his age, shook his head solemnly. "No, nothing else," he said, determined to play out the scene for all it was worth.

"Well, after lunch we might have been able to break this. But not now," replied the manager.

Gates and Edmark burst into laughter. They finally paid for their food with a couple of bucks and headed off in [Gates's] Mustang into the night.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[ExportGuru]

My pa-in-law used to get 100 $2 bills from the bank and have them made up into four or five pads like check pads. Then he could rip one off to give to a waitress as a tip. Nice joke. I can also remember _many_ years ago, when the local merchants and toughs around Anchorage, AK let things get a bit too rough, the nearby Air Force Base would pay out in cash in $2 bills. When they began to show up in numbers in people's cah registers, that reminded the locals where their income was coming from and they knew that the Base Commander could put the whole town "Off Limits" if he had to. (The Montana Club on Fourth Avenue has been "Off Limits" since 1940. Oh, well.)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[fm6]

I suppose they do. I doubt if it amounts to much.

Re:Where are your rights?

[NitsujTPU]

1) I can understand where you would think all of this.
2) No, it was police harassment. If you had lived in that town, you would know that they were crooked.

My party wasn't loud, we didn't have music outside. We had maybe 15 people.

As for the fight, I pushed the guy down to stop him from beating me up. I could just die, but I like life.

The snowboard team was obviously illegal, but there were lots of parties going on.

The police were not going to help me. I knew this based on experience in that town. They were accepting payoffs from bars, and doing all sorts of illegal things. They had accepted payoffs to overlook lots of criminal activities, and the students were endangered by their actions.

Re:Legal Tender notes over $100

[jonadab]

I thought they were withdrawn in 1969 -- and "withdrawn" here does not mean "stopped printing", because they stopped printing them in the forties. If they are still legal tender, what does "withdrawn" mean?

Re:Monticello

[Inthewire]

Guess which dead president lived in Monticello.
Thomas Jefferson

Guess which dead president is on the $2 bill
Thomas Jefferson and John Adams.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jonadab]

> If it was Taco Bell, perhaps they weren't smearing 'stuff' at all. Perhaps
> the stuff was actually exploding all over the bathroom!

Yeah, soap does that sometimes. In fairness, there were a couple of times that the stuff they smeared around was the kind of stuff you envisaged. But more often it was all the liquid soap out of the soap dispensers, with just enough water to make it a really big latherey mess. And occasionally it would be other things -- food, shaving cream, the contents of used feminine hygene products, ... but the soap was by far the most common smearing stuff.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[FunFactor100]

Doesn't amount to much??!?! Don't they charge interest on the money they lend? I'd imagine that would add up to a whole lot.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[mfnickster]

>> Why the heck didn't the gov't just ignore the whiners and pull the $1 bill?

> Because politicians like to stay in office.
>
> If it were just a few whiners who didn't like $1 coins, it would be different,
>but in fact the overwhelming majority of the US population prefers bills to coins.

Which is curious, since a dollar now is worth about what a quarter was worth in 1970, and people didn't complain about carrying around quarters in 1970, to my knowledge.

What would happen if dollar coins and $2 bills were common, and the dollar bill were retired? I don't think most people would even notice or care after a couple-three months.

- Nickster

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jacksonj04]

Yes, but things in the US aren't sold for $5 just because it's equivalent to the £2. In fact, the actual cost in real terms was less in the US than here in the UK. At least where I travelled (Arizona/Utah/Nevada) most micropayment things weren't selling for $5.

Something I failed to see mentioned...

[Khyber]

Was the ink that smeared on the bill the actual ink from the bill, or from the counterfeit-detection pen, causing the smear? This would make one MASSIVE distinguishment as to the entire case.

Do the old money swap....

[Khyber]

It's simple! 1. Go to Best Buy with a load of Susan B's. 2. Pay for a few major purchases with nothing but Susan B's. 3. Hope cashier is stoopid enough to confuse them with quarters and put in the same drawer slot as quarter. 4. Have a friend come directly behind you, pay with regular cash, and ask for change in quarters. 5. Watch cashier give you wayyyyy much more money than intended, don't report it, and let the person get fired. 6. Wash, Rinse, and Repeat as many times as it takes to get Best Buy to finally give customers the respect they deserve.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[gzunk]

To be fair I did say that the only legal tender was the £1 coin... :-)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Trickster Coyote]

I discovered that there are a few Canadian 1 and 2 dollar bills out there, usually hiding in US banks. A couple of years ago, my cousin from Idaho came up for a visit. Before leaving, she went to her local bank to get some Canadian currency and they gave her a bunch of 1 and 2 dollar bills.

Re:Legal Tender

[Chris Snook]

Yeah. My point was that the legal tender applied to his situation, but not the vast majority of transactions we might undertake at Best Buy. Furthermore, they had no cause to be threatening to have him arrested. All they could have done was sue him. Of course, with these idiotic police, anything could have happened.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[boodaman]

It's been a long time since I was a manager at McDonald's so things might have changed since then, but I can tell you that when I was there, no such policy existed, in either franchised or corporate stores.

At the time I worked there, the policy was pretty simple:

- if someone complained about being shortchanged while they were at the register (or soon thereafter), the register was immediately closed, the drawer pulled, and a count done. If the customer was right, you gave them their money right then with an apology. No forms, nothing of the sort. If the customer was wrong, you went in the back, closed out the drawer in the computer, got a new one from the safe, and put the employee back on a register with the new drawer.

- if no customer complained during a cashier's shift, the drawer was pulled at the end of the shift and counted. Any variance, positive or negative, was logged into the computer. $2 variance was a write-up. More than $2 and you were fired, or at least told not to come back until the GM talked to you. Anything under a $2 variance was tracked monthly, keeping a running total. If it ever got to $2, you wrote them up.

As long as the cashier ran the month less than $2 off total either way, nothing happened. I used to have 16 year olds who kept their number in their head...if they got close to $2, their drawer would miraculously come up with a variance the other way to balance it out.

The only forms were computer screens filled out after each drawer was counted. The system already knew what the drawer should have in it based on the sales on that register. The closing manager would balance everything, and make sure the overnight money was correct (it was called "counting the safe"). Each drawer had $50 in it, there were usually 10-15 drawers, plus $200-$300 in change, plus the day's sales receipts which were kept in the safe until the next business day, when they'd be deposited.

Incidentally, a good manager could count a drawer in less than 5 minutes, never more than 10. Cash policy dictated that periodically during a rush you would skim the 20 dollar bills from all registers, and put them in the safe, so if you were on the ball, a cashier's drawer rarely had more than $200 or so in it at the end of a shift. Counting it took no time at all.

Also, it was policy during a rush, especially in drive-thru, to simply take all change and dump it in the drawer without counting it. It was quicker to ask "is it all there?" or "is it exact?" and take them at their word then to sit there and count it. We never had a problem...the drawer might be off $0.25 or so either way after a rush, but that was nothing if you were doing several thousands of dollars per hour in sales.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[m50d]

And videogames and CDs tend to try and do the same thing when they come over to the UK, charging a pound price the same as the dollar price. Grr.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[zCyl]

After my recent trip to the US (I live in the UK), I was baffled to why on earth the lowest base denomination was a note (bill) instead of a coin

Stick twenty $1 coins in your left pocket, and twenty $1 bills in your right pocket, and then let us know which way your pants tilt. Bills are more convenient, easier to carry, and stack better.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[devilspgd]

I'm not sure about the law where you live, but here if you are required to wait as a function of your job, you get paid for your waiting time. Period.

If that means you go over 8 hours a day or 40 hours a week you get overtime too.

Not only that, but with a couple exceptions (banking is one, IIRC), you cannot be penalized for refusing a shift change without 48 hours notice. In other words, you can walk out at the end of your shift and cannot be fired for doing so.

You're missing the point

[Gorimek]

I moved to the US 10 years ago, and haven't had any difficulty either. But I do have to spend more brainpower and time on the task here than in my native Sweden.

I'm old enough to remember the time before remote controls. I never had any problem controlling my tv or stereo back then, but that doesn't mean remote controls are useless.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[dougmc]

We had a coin counting machine that didn't seem to be accurate. That probably helped force us to recount tills often.

We had a coin counting machine too. It was accurate enough for nickles, dimes and quarters (pennies do not have a standard weight, so it wasn't really good for them. All the other coins do have a standard weight) but we could count them faster by hand with almost zero errors.

Of course, we counted lots of tills in a day -- the store had 14 main registers, 5 in the customer service area, and perhaps 5 more in the deli, cosmetics, etc. So we got good at it.

For counting coins, we'd put them on the table, and pull them off with our fingers two at a time. Very fast ...

As for $0.03, that's just silly ...

and in other news, German bank issues fake notes

[rkww]

Ananova reports that "A German bank has been caught handing out thousands of fake euros to customers.

"Police who were alerted to the fact by a customer say they later confiscated 70,000 pounds worth of fake euros from the bank in Cologne, but did not say how the money came to be in the bank's coffers.

"An unnamed female customer who was paid 5,000 euros (3,400 pounds) in fake cash from the KoelnBonn savings bank in Cologne's Longerich district was the first to raise the alert.

"She said: "The notes were nearly all new. Then I noticed that they all had the same serial number."

"The bank admitted it had not contacted the police straight away, claiming it wanted to carry out an internal investigation first."

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[devilspgd]

Chances are as soon as they called the manager would say it's all good, he knows about the overage.

More importantly though, why didn't the employee count their cash at the beginning of their shift and notice they were over?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[legirons]

"The police sympathized with him and pretty much knew he was innocent, but they still could not make that judgement call themselves and had to wait for the Secret Service to arrive and verify that they were in fact not counterfeit."

So theoretically, as a cashier, you could raise this question about every item of currency that you receive, and expect every customer you see to end up arrested in jail?

After all, neither you nor the police are qualified to judge the accuracy of the money you receive. You said yourself it needs the secret service to "make the call".

So either you have a secret-service agent present at every transaction involving US currency, or you could arrest everyone who tries to use it. Both of those situations sound unlikely enough that I imagine your comment is untrue.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[devilspgd]

The scary part is that if she's just type the amount into the register, it would do the math for her and she might even learn something.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[devilspgd]

Worse then if 4 50s were fakes?

Caving Group Strategy

[Kalak]

A few years ago, a caving group had a convention in our town. To show the local merchants what a boon this was to the local economy, the group changed money into $2 bills, so the town was swamped with them, but chances are you knew they came from the cavers.

An excellent strategy. AFAIK, they still practice it, but it's been a few years since I knew a member of the group.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[fm6]

I have learned not to try to use SBA dollars anywhere but banks, however... Cashiers simply assume them as quarters without a second glance (which, AFAIK, caused their demise in the first place... What a dumb size, shape (milled edges), and color to make a dollar coin!)

You're forgetting that the SBA coin was an attempt to "fix" the existing dollar coin, which nobody was using, despite its clear distinction from the quarter. Somebody must have thought that making the coin vending-machine friendly would be crucial.

Making a dollar coin that was hard to distinguish from the quarter was obviously a mistake -- but not the big one. We just won't have a successful dollar coin until we make room in the nations cash registers by withdrawing the dollar bill.

Re:Over the top reaction... "Show me your papers!!

[jasonditz]

"I didn't know $2 bills existed" is not probable cause in any sense of the word.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[zakezuke]

Stop printing $1 bills. Eventually people will have to make the switch because there won't be any bills left after a few years.

Is this why they are printing $2.00 bills?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Wild_dog!]

I completely agree. All of my future purchases at best buy will be with $2 bills. I think there should be some sort of best buy $2 movement. Each and every year on the date the guy was locked up, everyone should buy stuff at best buy with $2 bills.

Re:I could be wrong...

[symbolic]

That's actually quite interesting. I stand enlightened. : )

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[mindstrm]

The ones at The French Maid in Calgary sure do....

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jcr]

I wouldn't accept some bill nobody's seen before either.

The man had US $2 bills. Hardly "some bill nobody's seen before".

-jcr

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[millennial]

I was in GR until November... now I'm in Dow Town, Inc.

Re:Legal Tender notes over $100

[HarryDHatt]

Withdrawn means that the treasury and FDIC member banks must turn them in for destruction when they receive them.

Bad luck $2

[mactov]

My grandfather had a habit, whenever he got a $2 bill, to tear off one corner. I asked him about it once, and he said that unless you tear off the corner, those bills are bad luck.

I thought (even at age 6) it was one of the weirder pieces of superstition I'd ever heard, but I've always thought of him when I saw that someone had "fixed" a $2 bill I got in change.

See, if the poor guy had just torn off the corners of all those twenties, none of this would have happened.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Vellmont]

No, the only way to get rid of paper dollar bills is to just get rid of the paper dollar bills and replace them with coins. I was in Canada a couple weeks ago and didn't see one single dollar bill, all one and two dollar coins. I can only assume Canada stopped printing the one dollar and two dollar bills several years ago.

I'm still not sure if I liked them or not, mostly because of the change you wind up carrying around.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Short Circuit]

Not in my case...I also have to live with 'em.

Re:Where are your rights?

[KillerBob]

My party wasn't loud, we didn't have music outside. We had maybe 15 people.

And the fact remains that somebody felt it necessary to call the police. If it really wasn't loud enough to be heard outside, how did they know there was a party in the first place?

As for the fight, I pushed the guy down to stop him from beating me up.

Technically, that could be viewed as assault. Did you first tell the guy that you didn't want to fight him, that you had no beef with him? Were there witnesses who can back that story up? Even if you did this, did you strike first? The law is pretty fuzzy in cases of self-defense as to what you can get away with, but you need to be able to prove an imminent threat if you're going to strike first, and you need to be able to prove that you used the minimum force necessary in cases where you injure or kill your assailant.

I realise this is hypothetical, since the event in question is over and gone, but there's something worth pointing out: when it's your word against my word in a case of assault, whoever's hurt is the one that the police are going to believe in the absence of a witness. This being a party, there should be no shortages of witnesses, so you need to ask yourself: are these witnesses going to say that I tried to avoid the fight and only struck back when I had no choice, or are they going to say that I pushed the guy down?

And what you do after the fact is just as important as what you do during the event, btw. If you stick around, you're basically inviting a repeat. If you walk away from it, it shows you are trying to avoid a fight. And if you didn't have time to do either of those, then what you say next is complete and utter bullshit:

I could just die, but I like life.

You know as well as I do that it's very unlikely that a fight would have come to that. It is extremely hard to actually kill somebody, for one, and for two, at a party, I doubt that everybody would have stood around while that sort of thing happened. Besides, self defense doesn't mean striking first, but it also doesn't mean standing there when somebody's giving you no choice.

If you're really concerned about it, I suggest you take some self defense. Truly, though, if you're in a situation where you actually need to use it at a party, you should probably be reconsidering who your friends are, and which parties you go to. Martial arts are something you learn so that you never need to use them.

The snowboard team was obviously illegal, but there were lots of parties going on.

And?

The police were not going to help me.

I'm assuming you're talking about the death threats, and not the kid who got beaten up... Did you know this for absolute, 100% certain? Would it have cost you anything other than time to file a report with the police?

I knew this based on experience in that town. They were accepting payoffs from bars, and doing all sorts of illegal things. They had accepted payoffs to overlook lots of criminal activities, and the students were endangered by their actions.

That's a very serious accusation.

What's your evidence? Were you a party to this, or is this hearsay? If you can back this claim up, then I suggest you talk to your lawyer, who can get you in touch with the appropriate authorities to discuss the matter. There's no sense grousing about something when you have the power to stop it.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Bullfish]

You get boned the most. A pound is supposedly worth #1.88 US ($2.30 CDN). I went on a road trip through the US last summer and I was quite surprised to see prices more or less the same, only in US dollars. The border towns have some lower prices, but that is to get Canadians across the border to shop. Electronics, boozes and smokes were a bit cheaper, but not staggeringly so. It used to be those three items were substantially cheaper.

Kind of makes you wonder what the point is when you are talking relative currency value. Money is just paper until you turn it into something.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Short Circuit]

I'm likely going to be transferring some time next year. Either to MTU, MSU, or GVSU. I'm aiming for MTU.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[mabhatter654]

the "pochihantis" dollars are about the same size but are "gold" colored and have smooth edges... The "susan B" had the misfortune of being the same color and cross-cut edge as a quarter...

Stay away from Crap Buy!

[wshwe]

Crap Buy again demonstrates poor customer service. When will people ever learn never to shop there?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Compact Dick]

Yeah, soap does that sometimes.

He wasn't talking about soap.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

British coins were crappy sizes in the sixties and seventies! Especially when all the Shilling coins and whatnot were still floating around. I'm sure that's why the coins were so well thought out inthe eighties, and why they limited redemption of £1 notes for coin to just two years.

Before the L/S/D reform of the money in '64, £10 notes were just that - large "notes" almost like letters! "Billfold" was no idle descriptive

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[dheltzel]

Wow, the interesting stuff I learn on /. never ceases to amaze me. I never thought of putting rocks in a sock to beat things. I guess my upbringing was more sheltered than I ever imagined.

Thanks for the tip, it might prove useful someday.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[dheltzel]

God forbid you ask her out...

He'd probably get in trouble with his wife if he did.

Get RID of the One Cent piece!.

[instarx]

While we're at it let's get rid of the one cent coin. It's nothing but a worthless time waster when making change. Labor costs being what they are, it would probably save businesses money not to have to pay people to count out pennies to make change. Also think how much easier it would be to calculate change if everything was in nickel increments. Price everyting in 5-cent increments, rounding up or down as needed.

Re:Get RID of the One Cent piece!.

[Micah]

> While we're at it let's get rid of the one cent coin.

AMEN, I agree completely!!!! Even in Ecuador, one-cents aren't really worth anything. Just an annoyance.

We have dollar coins...

[aquarian]

...but nobody uses them. Of course this is ridiculous.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[PingPongBoy]

It figures why credit cards are accepted for fast food.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Mattintosh]

Perhaps you missed the part about how easy counterfeiting makes it the currency of choice for everyone. Counterfeiters and other shady elements of society have the same effect on the economy as a whole that the porn industry has on the media distrobution and technology industries. They're the ones who decide who lives and who dies. If you allow them to counterfeit without too much hassle while only making a few examples, your money becomes popular and strong against other types of money. Then you control the world economy even when you aren't really producing much of anything.

$2 mania

[dcxdan]

On spending all those $2 bills at Best Buy - Well, I spend $2 bills all the time for the fun of it. The cashiers at Wendy's seem to get the most confused. One time the cashier looked at my $2 and then went to ask the manager if they took these coupons. Of course living in the Detroit area with Canada right across the river, I once got a comment from a lady in a dollar store who said "Oh, we do not take Canadian money" Yes, I am sure, just look what it says on the bill - United States of America. I even had one lady start to give me change as if it was a $20 bill. Anyway, all the bills I get are brand new and very crispy, so most times I just say something like "I just printed it up for you this morning"

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Drishmung]

I recall the information from a book on the history of money. A quick google however revealed http://www.gold-eagle.com/editorials_03/holloway01 2003.html with the quote

In 1793, failure to accept the French paper money was made punishable by death and the punishment was actually imposed as demonstrated by the lists of those condemned to the guillotine.

And yes, I was refering to a long time ago: about the 17th or 18th century I think

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[deblau]

Timeline of capital punishment in the UK. Includes cattle stealing and arson. Britain had public hangings until 1868. Coining wasn't classified a non-capital crime until the 1830s.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Neoprofin]

I would have refused to take it back. Our company (Target) was far more suspicious of people opening the cash drawers without making a sale then of registers coming up short on change. So much so that they didn't actually count the change, but any time the command was entered to force open the drawer it ends up on a report looked at by Assets Protection.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Otto]

Another time at the same supermarket, my friend got carded. The cashier didn't recognize the out-of-state driver's license and got the manager, who examined it for a while before deciding: "MARY-land? No way." He'd never heard of the state of Maryland.

I'm certain that a number of people have stories along similar lines. One of my college roommates had the same problem at a Wal-Mart because both the cashier and the manager did not think Idaho was a state.

The part that made the experience so surreal was that they didn't card him for the 2 cases of beer he was buying at the time (age 21 required), but they did card him for the carton of cigarettes (age 18 required). The result: they would only sell him the beer. He had to go to the smoke shop next door to buy the cigarettes.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[robfoo]

wouldn't want to pay by credit card then! :p

Re:Where are your rights?

[NitsujTPU]

1) The police patrolled my street constantly. First, they came by because a part of a sign I had put up blew off, and told me that if any more blew off, they would fine me for littering. This was a college town, and there were LOTS of parties, mine was pretty small by relation to most of the ones going on that evening, really only intended for my friends. The police would have been there had there been no noise complaint. The officer that I was friends with stood on the corner near my house for hours at a time looking for people breaking the law. The student union always had uniformed police inside.

2) The kid hit me in the back of the head, knocking me down, I got up and told him I didn't want to fight. The push was to back him off during his second assault.

3) I wrestled for years. It was dumb of him to hit me. I weighed nearly 250 at the time and had I wanted to hurt him, it would have been no trick. It was obvious that I had no intention of hurting him because he was not in the hospital.

4) No and, I shouldn't have bothered mentioning that story.

5) Having just called a couple weeks prior about the death threats, I felt that asking the police to return to my home just didn't make a difference.

6) The school has a number of bars that cater to underage drinkers. We knew that the police would essentially come by, pretend to do something about it, and then leave. We also knew that there were bars that sold cocaine and other drugs. There were rumors that the police were taking payoffs to fabricate evidence against students that the University thought were a problem. To anybody who was in that town, it was obvious that there was major criminal activity being overlooked.

For reference, the DEA and ATF could often be seen taking care of the matters that the local police were not taking care of. You could walk down the street and see people in DEA and ATF jackets. Also, the University has been accused of tampering with police records to make it appear that they have a lower crime rate than they do, so they can report that to potential incoming students.

All of that said, I was worked up the other night when I wrote this, and now, I'd rather just let it drop. I love the school I went to, despite all of its problems, and I'd rather not run it into the ground.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[jessecurry]

oh man, this kinda thing used to piss me off so much when I was serving. Not that I didn't appreciate the tips, but when I'm busy the last thing that I want to do is take the time to unfold an origami swan. And the sacajawea dollars kinda pissed me off because the managers didn't want to take them so when I rode my motorcycle home I'd have dollars falling out of my pocket.
I guess that the swan would be cool if it was a slow night, but I remember that all of the servers would try to trick other people into taking the sacajawea's. We even used to trash on each other for getting sacajawea'd.

You can mine cold??

[Atario]

And here I've been paying for air conditioning, like a sucker!

Perhaps...

[Atario]

...we just have a higher literacy rate?

(I keed, I keed)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[arwel]

Nice story, but total nonsense.

The Criminal Law Consolidation Act 1861 restricted the death penalty to:
Murder
Treason
Arson in Royal Dockyards, and
Piracy with violence.

A hundred years earlier and I could believe you - the Black Act of 1723 prescribed the death penalty for 220 offenses, including 50 offenses involving theft or poaching, but 2/3rds of those were abolished in 1808 or by the Punishment of Death Act 1832. Even in capital cases, juries were reluctant to convict, and other sentences like transportation were substituted - how on earth do you think Australia got populated?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[arwel]

I was buying a ticket at Basel main railway station about 20 years ago, and the man in front of me was paying with a 1000 Swiss franc note. Now that was a lot of money (about £400 or $700), particularly 20 years ago. Ticket clerk didn't blink at all.

On the other hand I was in a gift shop in Salzburg once and the Italian tourist in front of me bought about 12 schillings' worth of postcards with a 1000 schilling note. The shopkeeper was ever so slightly in Basil Fawlty mood after that - "Haben Sie eine kleine banknote??". While for "if looks could kill", try buying 14 koruns worth of stamps in the Prague Castle gift shop with a 2000 korun note, as I saw a German do once....

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[arwel]

No they don't have to be bigger and heavier for larger values, just clearly distinguishable.

British coins go:
1 and 2 pence - smaller and larger round copper coloured coins
5 and 10 pence - smaller and larger round silver coloured coins
20 and 50 pence - smaller and larger equilaterally curved heptagons, silver coloured.
£1 - thick round gold coloured coin
£2 - thin bimetallic round coin - silver colour inside, gold outside.
£5 - very large silver coloured round coin (rarely used).

If this this is the Security Square Best Buy.....

[DeanOh]

...that I sometimes use (because it's closest to my house), he's lucky he didn't get a full blown ass-whipping!

That particular store sets new records for Best Buy customer disrespect. Many Best Buys have large populations of non subject matter experts populating their aisles...the Security Square store compounds it by having easily the surliest sales staff I've ever seen anywhere.

To their credit, when I needed a game console and Dance Dance Revolution game at Christmas for my kid, I did find an unusually clueful geek in the gaming section. He understoon my desperate plea about NOT wanting any Christmas Day surprises, and to make sure I had everything I needed for out of the box DDR fun. He got it right.

But in 10 years of going to that story, this is sole exception. So I wouldn't be surprised to hear this was the story that sent a customer to jail for using legal tender....
It's an amazing place!

Stupid Americans

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet another example of how Stupid the American people are. They don't even know what their own currency is. HAHAHAHHAHA!!! Morons!!!! Get an education.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[tuatara222]

I like that! I used to put bills on the little shelf between the keys and the till when it was feasible, but the plate/magnet arrangement is great...

Re:Legal Tender

[ArtStone]

The legal significance of "legal tender" is quite limited. Re-read the United States section of the Wiki link posted above.

If a person owes a debt and offers to pay with legal tender, and the creditor holding the debt refuses to accept the legal tender in settlement of the obligation, that does NOT cancel the debt - but it may prevent the creditor from charging interest from that point forward (Dooley v Smith - 1872).

All of this goes back to an earlier time before the Federal Reserve was formed, and banks would issue bank notes that people used in commerce. Because banks tended to fail on a regular basis, bank notes often traded at a discount due to their risk - so it was important that for commerce a creditor could refuse to accept payment in "dollars" that were worth less thatn a dollar, and very difficult to authenticate as genuine.

At least that's what I was taught in business law class in College.

Here is a nice summary for those actually interested in legal facts:
http://tafkac.org/faq2k/legal_552.html

http://www.treas.gov/education/faq/currency/lega l- tender.shtml

IANAL

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[MysteriousPreacher]

It would be the same really, either way you lose 200 euro.

The probability of you receiving 4 forged 50 euro notes in one go is pretty low under normal circumstances. The probability of you receiving 1 forged 200 euro note is a arguably a bit higher, particularly since they are so rare and many people don't know how to check them for forgeries.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Wytil]

Onour local police exams, the minimum IQ is 80. If that holds in the the area where the arrest took place, well......

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[tuatara222]

I hear you- tossing dimes into the till isn't messy or brutal, but a real PITA when someone needs to catch that last bus to get home, or has someone watching their children waiting for them, so they can go to work, etc.

Watching how people treat retail staff and places, it makes me wonder about making people work well-monitored menial-pay gigs in their youth (not unlike mandatory national service) so they would (hopefully) learn about empathy, respect, having to live on low wages-something along those lines. So often, people act like those working manual or retail work are less than human somehow, and fair game for rudeness and contempt.

It may sound naive, but I was raised to believe that a person should not be judged because of the work they do, if it is honest work done well. If a person abuses others by their power and position (Enron management, anyone?)- they deserve contempt- not the guy who collects the trash. At the hospital where I currently work, the director of my service is highly-credentialed - also dissembling, judgmental, biased, and driven primarily by his image. OTOH,a custodian I know on the evening shift is one of the the most pleasant and hard-working people I've known. I know the access he has- he could do amazing damage or theft is he chose to do so. And I'd rather spend an hour with him than five minutes with the director, any day.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[rarkm]

Ah, yes, the good old days...

> At one time, he would have got the clerk hanged.
>Back when paper money was first used in Britain,...
[fond reminiscence of ancient vicious English criminal law practices snippied!]

Re:Legal Tender

[Chris Snook]

Thanks for that. I was under the (mistaken) impression that cancellation of debt by refusal of legal tender was established by implication of federal legal tender laws. I know that it is in fact established in some jurisdictions, but I suppose those are established by state laws, or by case law that has not remained uniform since 1872. As legal tender laws have changed substantially in the past century, I'm a bit surprised that there haven't been any authoritative cases since 1872.

URBAN LEGEND

[Donal Dubh]

Folks, this is an Urban Legend! I am really surprised y'all were taken in by a submission pointing to a website that marked it as a USER SUBMITTED article with no newspaper reference! from http://www.snopes.com/business/money/tacobell.asp Mike Bolesta, a 57-year-old Baltimore County resident, stated that in February 2005 he purchased a radio/CD unit for his son's automobile at Best Buy (a chain of retail electronics stores). Bolestra said in order to rectify a mix-up they'd made in selling him the wrong unit, the store initially waived the installation charges for the stereo, then called him back the next day and threatened to report him to the police if he don't come in and pay the $114 installation fee. Irked that Best Buy had gone from "them admitting a mistake to suddenly calling the police," Bolestra decided to stage a mini-protest by paying the charge with fifty-seven $2 bills. He described to the Baltimore Sun what happened next: "I'm just here to pay the bill," Bolesta says he told a cashier. "She looked at the $2 bills and told me, 'I don't have to take these if I don't want to.' I said, 'If you don't, I'm leaving. I've tried to pay my bill twice. You don't want these bills, you can sue me.' So she took the money. Like she's doing me a favor." Nonetheless, police were summoned when a Best Buy employee noticed that the ink on some of the $2 bills was smeared, and after one officer noted that the serial numbers on the bills ran in sequential order, Bolesta was handcuffed and taken to the county police lockup. Police reportedly kept him handcuffed to a pole for three hours while they notified the Secret Service, but when an investigator from that agency (which is tasked with handling counterfeiting cases) determined that the currency was legitimate, Bolesta was finally released.

Re:URBAN LEGEND

[mfnickster]

> Folks, this is an Urban Legend! I am really surprised y'all were taken in by a submission
> pointing to a website that marked it as a USER SUBMITTED article with no newspaper reference!

Um, correct me if I'm wrong, but that Snopes article doesn't say anywhere that either of these stories has been determined to be false...?

Not to mention that the Best Buy story includes a cite from the Baltimore Sun, and it was JUST published last month, so it wouldn't be surprising if few people were familiar with it.

Re:URBAN LEGEND

[sfsp]

Baltimore Sun, 8 March 2005. Byline Michael Olesker. URL below.

http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-md.oles ker08mar08,1,76004.column?ctrack=1&cset=true

Geez, 10 seconds at the Sun site gave me that. Do some research. There's even two "Michael Bolestra" listings in SuperPages.com for Baltimore, MD. One of them is probably him.

Let them have their $114

[puffy311]

Fine, let Best Buy have their $114 chump change. Sue them for millions, as well as demand a public apology from the police for an arrest without probable cause. If you did not resist, it also seems they used excessive force, by chaining you to a pole.

I don't feed stupidity.

[SanityInAnarchy]

I'd have walked out of the fucking store.

I mean, new trainee is fine, having an IQ of 30 is not. Confused by a photo credit card? She needs help.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Galvatron]

Of course, $10 (2x5) and $50 (2.5x20) bills are also less popular, though not nearly to the extent of the $2. Most popular are $1, $5, $20, and $100, each one being 4-5x the amount of the next one down.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[EuroMike]

As I remember, the Royal Bank of Scotland finally (and quietly) stopped printing the £1 note sometime around 2003 - though you're right that they still do circulate. They are getting more and more rare though - I haven't seen one for at least six months.

As for legal tender, IANAL but I've read that Scots law lacks even the concept of "legal tender", so that doesn't just apply to Scottish banknotes here - which explains the poll tax protesters circa 1990 paying their tax in pennies and such like.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[EuroMike]

'64? ...... 1971 surely?

On the fifteenth of Fenruary nineteen seventy one... There is going to be.... Decimal currency.... And a hundred pennies in the new pound!

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Jeremiah Cornelius]

Seventy-one is right! Somewhere I lost my marbles there. That's why the oldies were still floating around when I was a kidlet, and you still heard people saying "Bob" for shilling. I would've gone mad, figuring out all the 12s and 20s!

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[swmccracken]

There was somebody in New Zealand that, as a fund raising drive, tried to collect everyone's 5 cent coins that people had acccumlated at home doing nothing.

For them, it was worthwhile, as they collected so many, and they'd go to all the hassle of getting them counted. (The reserve bank thought yay, as it meant these old 5c's would re-enter circulation - they're expensive (as a fraction of their face value) to make.)

I'd be a bit richer, if it were me.

[Lizzy_Bee]

If I were that guy, I'd be suing the *%#@ out of Best Buy, as well as having whichever employees most responsible for my arrest fired, as they filed a false report. As to the arresting officers, I'd be looking to get their butt's fired, as well, for false arrest given I was being arrested for using LEGAL TENDER to pay a bill. I may not always agree with 'em, but this seems like a good case for the ACLU to get involved with.

Lizzy

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[sumdumass]

Well it was either beating them with a sock full of rocks or a club of some type. The socks made it more praticle to carry in and out of the woods.

BTW. i was trapping and thats how you kill the animals in the trap. You club them over the head with somehting. Now, i think you can carry a small caliber fire arm but i'm not sure abnout that. When i was trapping you would get arrested for it. Beside whats the point of shooting an animal in a trap. It has been 20 some years since i traped so things could have changed by now.

If this means you grew up sheltered then i'm sorry. one oof the funnest things in the world is to go hunting, fishing and trapping. You should try it sometime.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[dheltzel]

From your original post, I didn'r infer that your were doing this to animals. I was picturing some sort of gang violance.

*Sigh* I think maybe I've viewed too much TV or too many movies in my life.

I used to go fishing with my dad and loved being outdoors. Now I raise tropical fish in my basement, sort of a way to bring the outdoors in.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[As Seen On TV]

The government lacks the power, under statute, to just declare perfectly good money to be no longer legal tender.

The reasons for this should be obvious, if you stop and think about them for a second. The power to unmake money is not a power you want your government to have.

(The Europeans are obviously a lot more relaxed about what they do and don't allow their governments to do. Never understood that for a second. They, of all people, should comprehend the need to put limits on the extent to which the state can shit on the people.)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[As Seen On TV]

As has already been explained elsewhere, any piece of currency, paper or coin, ever printed or minted by the Department of the Treasury of the United States of America is legal tender for all debts, public or private.

If it's genuine and it was actually issued by the Federal government (that means after 1862), then it's legal. That even goes for the unbelievably rare $10,000 bill featuring the portrait of Secretary of the Treasury Salmon P. Chase. No, I did not make that up. If you have a $10,000 bill in your pocket, you can trade it in for 10,000 singles and have yourself a grand old time at the titty bar.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[PSGInfinity]

Once? At most? Cool! That means that the "two-term limit" hasn't kicked in, and W is free to run once or twice more. Dubya '12, anyone?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[sumdumass]

The conversion rate has nothign to do with the internal countries pricing on somethign like this. If local taxes inflate prices or the common amounts usualy sold in the Uk are greater, then you can easily pay more.

Also i cannot find a quick chart to give a reference to europes econemy, but there are some availible to convert asias and they seem to indecate that even after the monetary exchange the pricing of common items do not directly corespond to american pricing. If a candy bar or a can of coke cost 35 cents in america, you might expect to pay the equivilent of 35 cents in other countries. When i was abroad, this reasoning didn't work. Of course there was no euro back then and ther US dollar was a little stronger but the exchange rater workings made the dramaticalty different then in the US. Coke costs more over there. Coke has plants in eurpe too so it isn't a import fee from south carolina either. Also i believe that a few candy bar manuufacturers have plant in europe and they cost more to purchase there too.

I spent quite a bit of time to find a simple market basket survey for europe countries with no success. Maybe this is somethign only done in the US. Maybe it is somethign done but onnly released to the public in the US. This would give an indecation of the amount usualy spent and would give a better idea of the mean cost for small common items. IF in the UK, a soda does cost 2 euros but stuff you but quantities of like food tend to cost less, then there could be an example. I europe gasoline generaly costs 2 to 5 times as much as it does in the US after even after you make the conversions. I think this alone would question the "thier money is worth more then our money" theroy when making a claim against what i said. From other posts and observations i have seen, i can say that the same items costing a dollar or less in the US tend to get more money in Europe. Then have less of a reason to use dollar bills like we do in the US.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[sumdumass]

I left the animals part out of the partent post. i didn't really know how people would react to how things are done when trapping. I could tell form your reply that you assumed i was up to no good so thats why i explained a little better.

I think it is great your raising tropical fish. I used to have an aquaium too but one winter the power went out and when it came back on it blew the heater. The watter got too cold and all the fish died. I havn't had the patience to start over yet. (about 10 years ago)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[CrimsonAvenger]

OTOH, try to pay anything with a $100 note and you'll run into the same problem!

I don't carry $100's all that often. When I do, I never have any problems spending them - though I do try to refrain from using them unless the bill comes to more than $20...

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[GeckoX]

Oh, boo hoo, you don't like my country.
And I care so much too.

Actually I do, I care quite a bit that the chances of you ever visiting are slim and none.

Read Between the Lines

[Vince Mo'aluka]

"It's a sign that we're all a little nervous in the post-9/11 world."

Translation: Oppressive police state tactics allow us to provide more efficient service. Our #1 priority is getting the job done. If we have to sacrifice a few innocents for the benefit of efficient law enforcement, then so be it.

Corollary: As enforcers of the law, we are more concerned with conformity than actual justice. When it comes to law enforcement, conformity is efficiency. Due process and individual rights only get in the way, and should be minimized at every opportunity.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[hesiod]

> and go in with some of these $2 bills.

Sweet deal, I've always wanted to pay $70 for $50 in cash!

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[CapnGib]

I say that every damned time I walk out of that store.

Re: Coin vs Bill life

[tbuskey]

I bet coins last longer. You don't find many pennies older then 1959. That's the year the obverse (back) changed to the Lincon Memorial from the Wheat ears.

I've gotten nickles from the late 40's in my change every now and then. They were silver during the war; nickle was a more stratigic material then silver.

Dimes, quarters, etc were last minted from silver in 1964 so 1965 is the last year you'll generally see of them.

The 50 cent piece was silver (instead of nickle) clad in '65 (through '70?).

The 1976 quarter had a bicentenial theme. People tend to hoard them, thinking they'll be valuable. I don't think this will happen *as much* with the current quarters with different state themes. Everyone seems to be collecting one set but circulate the rest.

I think Canada eliminated the paper $1 when they came out with the loonie $1 and the $2 coins. That's the only way $1 and $2 coins will work in the US. Eliminate the paper.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[dheltzel]

Most of the fish I raise are not really tropical, they prefer cool water. Some are very uncomfortable when it hits 78F. That's works well since my basement is a bit on the cool side and I don't like working in hot humid places anyway.

If you decide to get back into fishkeeping, let me know and I'll recommend some good ones to start with.

Jachymov

[jskelly]

Actually, Joachimstaler is the German name for it, but the town is in Bohemia (the Czech Republic) where it goes by the name of Jachymov. It's got a neat history -- first, they mined very pure silver here (which is why the 'thaler' or dollar got a reputation for being a really strong currency). Only, the miners kept dying mysteriously... Because the site also happened to be rich in uranium. It was from this site that Mme Curie got the pitchblende for her experiments.
During the 1950s, the communists turned the site into a concentration camp for political prisoners, who were forced to mine the uranium for the Soviet nuclear program. Today it's a spa town well-known within the Czech Republic for its curative radioactive water (used to treat some forms of cancer).

That's what Steve Wozniak does.

[GPS Pilot]

I guess you and he are kindred spirits. http://www.woz.org/letters/general/78.html

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[JavaLord]

Any marginally competent lawyer should be able to get him at least six figures from both the store, and the municipality where this occurred.

Hopefully they will give them those six figures in 2 dollar bills.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Hognoxious]

Money should be gold and silver, not fiat currency.

I was waiting for one of you lot to come along. Would you please enlighten us as to what arbitrary minerals have to do with wealth generation in a modern economy.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Hognoxious]

to find that you money has been totally ....wait, that actually happened to you, didn't it?

No it didn't. Unless you're talking about decimalisation. In which case it still didn't.

Well, it won't happen here!

With the rate the US dollar is declining, that means you'll have to carry twice as much weight to have the same purchasing power. I suppose it'll be good for clothing manufacturers as all those pockets wear through - pity they're all in China these days.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[p3d0]

People toss it into every crevace of their cars, and into jars in their houses. They complain about having $5 worth of assorted change in their pocket books. They go to machines in stores and pay a nontrivial percentage of the total sum to get rid of their change and replace it with bills.

That right there is the problem. Change is only a problem if you don't spend it. If you actually use it, it doesn't accumulate to the point that you need to lug 20 pounds of metal in to get it replaced with bills.

The thing about coins is that we use them only for the lowest denominations. I bet there wouldn't be a lot of $50 coins in between sofa cushions.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[SoCalChris]

Our vending machines at work take both Sacagewea (Gold color dollar coins) & Susie B's. If you put in a dollar bill, then press the change button, it spits out a dollar coin.

Other than the post office, I haven't seen any other machines that take or dispense them though.

real money vs fiat currency

[ChristTrekker]

Gold has real value because they are relatively scarce, treasured for some reason (perhaps the scarcity itself), and the supply is relatively fixed. Paper money can be produced (and destroyed) at the will of the government, meaning that the value of your money is subject to arbitrary fluctuation at the government's whim - i.e. inflation/deflation. What's really backing it? Confidence in the government - that's all. Gold is inherently valuable, paper is not. It's basic supply and demand.

Any commodity could be used as money. You could talk about how many "cows" something cost, or how many "breadloaves", if you wanted. Precious metals are chosen because they fit the criteria listed above better than cows or bread. You could breed more cows or bake more bread to alter the money supply, but not as quickly as you can print on paper. You can mine for metals, but this requires real work. Printing a $100,000 note requires no more effort than printing a $1 note. Also, metal coins are highly valuable in small amounts, which makes them easily transportable - a very nice feature.

This is a very rushed summary. For more information, a good starting point would be the excellent Remarkable Remedy by Jean Carpenter. The US Constitution does not authorize printed money, the language refers to coined money. The language was chosen for a reason, if you read the quotes in the book.

Re:real money vs fiat currency

[Hognoxious]

Gold has real value because they are relatively scarce, treasured for some reason (perhaps the scarcity itself)

Gold is plural? Anyway, scarcity doesn't necessarily equate to real value.

Gold is inherently valuable

Why? Because you can exchange it for something else? How is that different from paper money? What 'inherent' value would a gold ingot have someone stranded on a desert Island?

and the supply is relatively fixed.

If that were true (and it isn't - I'm reliably informed that you can dig it out of the ground) then how come people are generally visibly better off now than they were in Victorian times?

Re:real money vs fiat currency

[corsican]

Good point: Gold is not inherently valuable; nothing is. The only reason anything is valuable is because we all agree that it has value.

Dead presidents?

[Deven]

They get really impressed if you start handing out that currancy that doesn't have a dead president on it.

What's so impressive about $10 bills?

Re:Dead presidents?

[fr2asbury]

Well, I have to admit I was thinking of the $100, but even $10 is ten time more then the usual bill bandied about a place like that.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[lowrydr310]

Is that a true story, or urban legend? I've heard this same story about three or four times, for different military base cities.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[c0d3h4x0r]

My stupidest moment in life isn't even in the same ballpark as failing to realize that Maryland is a state.

I have plenty of empathy and sympathy for people's honest mistakes and flaws, but I have no empathy or sympthy for people who choose to be woefully ignorant.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[sumdumass]

For some reason i tend to collect ones. I can have as many as 20 or 30 of them before i make an effort to use them. You b y something just over a ten and pay with a twenty, you get about 4 ones back. Using the larger bill aften seems to be easier when buying stuff too. It is easy to collect ones especialy when you are thinking about spending them somewere else.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[sadomikeyism]

well, no, not exactly. I use both all the time because my office for the past year had two vending machines, one for soda and one for candy, plus a change making machine. The change machine would break 1, 2, 5, 10, and 20 dollar bills and provide susan b's or squaws. I know they are big at a lot of places where people use vending machines and need change.

Despite that, I do still run into people who are surprised when I pay them in a dollar coin.

Now, if you want to have real fun, try paying someone with a NORFED $10 coin. A buddy of mine did that all around town one week after buying a few thousand bucks in NORFED coins.

He finally received a phone call from somone purporting to be a Secret Service Agent. He replied, "Yeah, right, who is this?" and hung up.

The guy called back and said, "DON'T HANG UP. I am Agent so and so of the US Secret Service and I want to talk about your silver coins."

"Really? Do you have a problem with NORFED?"

"No."

"Do you have a problem with Bernard Von Nothaus?" [the founder of NORFED]

"No, not at all, I just want to make sure you aren't telling anybody that these are coins issued by the US government or the Federal Reserve."

"OF COURSE, I'd NEVER say that! These coins are actually worth something!"

"What do you mean?"

he went into an explaination of the difference between full reserve currency and fractional reserve debt-backed money....

Secret Service guy said, "I'll tell you one thing, these are the most beautiful coins I've ever seen..."

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Sebby]

I do wish the coin had the saying "I am not a crook" embossed on it.

Lol! Now that would be a Nixon coin worth collecting! :)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[sadomikeyism]

The mint stopped making them because they don't have to make any more for a while. The coins are so much more durable than federal reserve notes that they don't need to issue so many every year. It's why susan b's are still in circulation decades after they stopped being made. Steel alloy coins are dandy tools.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[racermd]

The point wasn't that the local police were too dumb to recognize the $2 bill as currency. When the ink on the bills appeared to smear, it created some concern over the legitimacy of the bills in terms of being counterfeits of legitimate currency.

At least, that's the way I interpreted the story.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[racermd]

So... its not handled as much because people don't recognise it.... because its not used much. Isn't that rather pardoxial? Wouldnt all denomiations have this problem if that were the reason?

Yes, I suppose it would. But (as noted in other replies), the $2 bill tends to be less useful in daily situations for a number of reasons. The $1 bill tends to function fine for purchases up to about $5 to $10 or so. The $2 bill is just half the material for the same currency value you'd get from $1 bills, but you've reduced your granularity for those purchases that don't total an even dollar amount - i.e. $13.00. You'll still need at least one $1 bill to complete a transaction with this total (assuming no coins are used).

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Gannoc]

People that stupid should be euthanized. Seriously.

Or maybe we should educate people.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Micah]

Do you know if they are actively planning on making more in the future?

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[tengwar]

UK also has 25p and £5. I've only seen 25p coins bought from the bank as novelties, but I've had a £5 coin in my change.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[sadomikeyism]

I don't think that is their focus. There are already far too many dollars in circulation as it is today, partly why the dollar is down 40% against the Euro, gold, etc. They need to take dollars off the market, not put them on.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Nodar]

This seems completely insane. I used to work in a movie theatre doing basically EVERYTHING there, working the cashier, the concession stand, the projection both, etc. It wasn't uncommon for our drawers to be off $5-10, sometimes $20 or $30 for a single shift. nothign ever came of it. I don't know if it had to do with the volume of cash flow, on some nights a concession worker could have as much as $5000 in their drawer or more, but they just didn't seem to care. (Great highschool/college job, a *nationally known* theatre chain that begings with C and ends in armike)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[ePhil_One]

In other words, you can walk out at the end of your shift and cannot be fired for doing so.

However, most states have an "employment at will" policy, meaning I don't have to have a reason to fire you. So as long as I don't say "I'm firing you because you left when you shift ended" I can just say "You are fired, no reason given" and you have no recourse. Got knows I don't want a law quoting nancy-pants working for me that is going to pointing out my legal responsibilities every time its too busy to give him his 15 minute break exactly on time.

In other words, such laws are rarely much protection, more a guideline to let you know when you job sucks

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[circusboy]

just remember to wet the loonie first, it sticks to the target better. at least that's what she recommended.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Keely]

True story of another stupid clerk... My dad was just back in the States from a fishing trip to Canada, and had a few loonies he wanted to get rid of. He was paying for his purchases in our home town (central Minnesota), and he asked the clerk if she would accept Canadian money, handing her a loony... She looks at, and says, "I guess so - how much is it worth?"

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[mrsev]

"Look, it works for us so leave it alone. You might as well ask why people still use money instead of debit cards pulling directly from their banks."

How are we supposed to pay for our drugs? Dealers dont take credit cards!

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[devilspgd]

Yeah, but my juristiction doesn't have an employment at will policy.

Either way though, if you're required to stay, it's not unreasonable to expect to be paid for your time.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[frog51]

But amusingly the Scottish one pound note looks remarkably like the English five pound note in low lighting...not sure if that is why I am always asked by friends in London if they can buy my pound notes off me..I charge two pounds for the privilege:-)

How to take action, and be crushed

[Blitzenn]

I hope Baltimore police are more forgiving than police in my area. I found out the hard way that raising a stink can get you in a lot of hot water. I tried to raise a stink about a simple traffic ticket that I received, that was blatantly wrong. The county sheriff's department seemed to take my protest personally and viewed it as an attempt to discredit them. They retaliated by charging me with a slew of things that never happened and even went as far as fabricating evidence. At first I thought everyone would clearly see it as a underhanded attempt by the police to quite me. Boy was I wrong. What recourse do you have when the police say they have evidence of a crime you didn't commit? None. Unless you can persuade a judge that the police have it out for you, (most unlikely), you are toast, as was I. Now, I can't drive, have a criminal record, (no felony, but damn close), and the local police will now go out of their way to make my life miserable because I pointed my finger at them. I learned my lesson. Seems many police departments learned some lessons from Sadam Hussein, repression works. Now I haven't any credibility in anyone's eyes, because I was convicted of something I didn't even do. In their eyes, I am just another criminal who is crying innocence where there is none. It has hurt my family severely as other kids taunt my children, calling their father a liar. Nothing could be more painful than to be persecuted when you know you were in the right and you can't do anything about it.

I would excercise extreme caution here in raising too much of a stink. It has a terrible way of coming back at you ten fold.

Re:How to take action, and be crushed

[geodescent]

You are correct in that raising a stink with the police would likely be a bad idea. In this day and age the first amendment clearly states "anything you say can and will be used against you."

Now that I've gotten off my soapbox, it would be useful to point out that even if the guy was not making a scene at Best Buy, any officer called out there can basically lock up any person(s) they like for X amount of hours without a formal charge.

So chances are they're just following protocol in locking him up because it's easier to sort out that way. Of course, there is no protocol in police handbooks that say to look objectively at both sides.

Fact of the matter is, the consumer is always guilty until proven innocent (while remaining guilty in everyone's eyes thanks to the media.)

Follow up

[Blitzenn]

Oh, I wanted to mention a couple of other things too. I was sentenced to 3 years of probation. On my first report, I was laughed at by the probation officer and told that none of this would have happened if I had just kept my mouth shut. He is right.

The original traffic ticket that this all started over was dismissed. I go to bed every night now wishing I never said a word. I read the papers now and question every arrest I read about and wonder if the person really did do what the police said they did. I have no trust in law enforcement and am scared to death everytime I see on now. I am sure I am not alone, but I am also sure the majority of the people out there also belive that this could never happen and doesn't happen, which gives the police a free hand to continue doing the same thing. Who watches the people who watch us? Apparently nobody.

Re:Um dear /. crowd

[gracefool]

I live in New Zealand, and I've never known someone to pay before pumping! I suppose we're a "more rural part of the world where people are much more trustworthy" :)

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[Alberic]

That's just why in france we have and expression that translates "you're mistaking me for an american"... Makes you wonder wether you're the only one =)

reminds me of a footnote...

[Alberic]

... in Good omens (T.Pratchett) :
NOTE FOR YOUNG PEOPLE AND AMERICANS: One shilling = Five Pee. It helps to understand the antique finances of the Witchfinder Army if you know the original British monetary system: Two farthings = One Ha'penny. Two ha'pennies = One Penny. Three pennies = A Thrupenny Bit. Two Thrupences = A Sixpence. Two Sixpences = One Shilling, or Bob. Two Bob = A Florin. One Florin and one Sixpence = Half a Crown. Four Half Crowns = Ten Bob Note. Two Ten Bob Notes = One Pound (or 240 pennies). One Pound and One Shilling = One Guinea. The British resisted decimalized currency for a long time because they thought it was too complicated
But, hey, this is offtopic. naaah what the hell.

Brazil

[dcs]

Interesting stories. Here in Brazil people are required by law to accept cash. So, to actually refuse some uncommon bill would be a crime.

Then again, we have had to many of them in the last 20 years that I think such situations are unlikely here.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[FunFactor100]

I ran into a buddy who happens to work at the Royal Canadian Mint in Ottawa this past weekend....I asked him if it costs more or less than 1 cent to produce a penny....he said less. I suggest YOU visit the Royal Canadian Mint in Ottawa. On a side note, he said that they take other factors besides the cost to produce one into consideration when deciding how many, and if at all, to mint pennies.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[corsican]

That's why it was in quotes, genius.

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[corsican]

I think the funny thing about this whole thing is that they all assumed someone would go to the trouble of counterfeiting a $2 bill! Any true counterfeiter would be much more likely wash the ink off of $1 or $2 bills and use the resulting clean paper to print old-style (pre-monopoly) $20s or $100s (both of which are still legal tender, btw, even though they lack the new security features).

Re:Law Enforcement Ahoy....

[corsican]

That's a beautiful story .

Once, a friend of mine had this hamster, and he woke up one morning to find it dead in its cage. So he made a little coffin out of a shoebox and buried it in the flower garden. Later on he found a wheathead penny.